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Why Does Pete Rose Remind Me of My Dog?
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Here’s the 9th inning of the final game of the 1980 World Series, with 40-year-old Pete Rose doing a typical Pete Rose thing:

After catching the pop-up off Bob Boone’s glove, Pete Rose bounces the ball off the artificial turf, because that’s what Pete Rose does because he loves baseball. One out later, the Phillies were World Champs.

I’m carrying on my August fundraiser. Here are ten ways for you to contribute:

First: Most banks now allow fee-free money transfers via Zelle.

Zelle is really a good system: easy to use and the fees are nonexistent.

If you have a Wells Fargo bank account, you can transfer money to me (with no fees) via Wells Fargo SurePay/Zelle. Just tell WF SurePay/Zelle to send the money to my ancient AOL email address steveslrAT aol.com — replace the AT with the usual @). (Non-tax deductible.) Please note, there is no 2.9% fee like with Paypal or Google Wallet, so this is good for large contributions.

Zelle contributions are not tax deductible.

Second: if you have a Chase bank account (or even other bank accounts), you can transfer money to me (with no fees) via Chase QuickPay/Zelle (FAQ). Just tell Chase QuickPay/Zelle to send the money to my ancient AOL email address (steveslrATaol.com — replace the AT with the usual @). If Chase asks for the name on my account, it’s StevenSailer with an n at the end of Steven. (Non-tax deductible.) There is no 2.9% fee like with Paypal or Google Wallet, so this is also good for large contributions.

Third, Zelle might work with other banks too. Here’s a Zelle link for CitiBank. And Bank of America.

Fourth: You can use Paypal (non-tax deductible) by going to the page on my old blog here. Paypal accepts most credit cards. Contributions can be either one-time only, monthly, or annual. (Monthly is nice.)

Fifth: You can mail a non-tax deductible donation to:

Steve Sailer
P.O Box 4142
Valley Village, CA 91617

I have no idea why somebody carefully hung this empty picture frame from a tree alongside the Fryman Canyon hiking trail, but I appreciate it, like I appreciate your support.

Sixth: You can make a tax deductible contribution via VDARE by clicking here.

Please don’t forget to click my name at the VDARE site so the money goes to me: first, click on “Earmark your donation,” then click on “Steve Sailer:”

This is not to say that you shouldn’t click on John’s fund too, but, please, make sure there’s a blue dot next to my name.

VDARE has been kiboshed from use of Paypal for being, I dunno, EVIL. But you can give via credit cards, Bitcoin, Ethereum and Litecoin, check, money order, or stock.

Note: the VDARE site goes up and down on its own schedule, so if this link stops working, please let me know.

Seventh: send money via the Paypal-like Google Wallet to my Gmail address (that’s isteveslrATgmail .com — replace the AT with a @). (Non-tax deductible.)

Eight: You can send me Bitcoin. Bitcoin payments are not tax deductible.

Here’s my Bitcoin address:

1EkuvRNR86uJzpopquxdnmF23iA3vzdDuc

Here’s the OCR

Please let me know if this works, ideally by sending me Bitcoin. Or let me know what else you’d like to send me.

If you’re sending to a crypto address that belongs to another Coinbase user who has opted into Instant sends in their privacy settings, you can send your funds instantly to them with no transaction fees. This transaction will not be sent on chain, and is similar to sending to an email address.

Learn more about sending and receiving crypto.

Send off-chain funds

Mobile

  1. Tap at the bottom
  2. Tap Send
  3. Tap your selected asset and enter the amount of crypto you’d like to send
  4. Enter the Receiver’s crypto address or scan their crypto QR code to see if the address belongs to a Coinbase user

Computer

  1. Sign into Coinbase.com

  2. Click Send at the top right

  3. Click your selected asset and enter the amount of crypto you’d like to send

  4. Enter the Receiver’s crypto address or scan their crypto QR code to see if the address belongs to a Coinbase user

Obsolete: Below are links to two Coinbase pages of mine. But these don’t work anymore. I will try to fix them. This first is if you want to enter a U.S. dollar-denominated amount to pay me.

Pay With Bitcoin (denominated in U.S. Dollars)

This second is if you want to enter a Bitcoin-denominated amount. (Remember one Bitcoin is currently worth many U.S. dollars.)

Pay With Bitcoin (denominated in Bitcoins)

Ninth: I added Square [which is now Block] as a fundraising medium, although I’m vague on how it works. If you want to use Square, send me an email telling me how much to send you an invoice for. Or, if you know an easier way for us to use Square, please let me know.

Tenth: Venmo: https://account.venmo.com/u/SteveSailer

 
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  1. I came into awareness of professional baseball – i.e. my preteen years – right at the tail end of Pete Rose’s playing career. The whole gambling and suspension thing happened when I was in high school and then he was more or less gone and out of the public eye for 20 years after that.

    My dad and father in law and other older baseball fans I know would – and still do – speak of him in reverential terms. When I see clips like this, I can see why.

    • Replies: @middle-aged vet
    @JR Ewing

    Never liked baseball idolatry of guys in their 20s, most of whom had never worked a day in their lives.

    Sure he was good at a game, but lots of creeps like him are good at games.

    I feel bad for people who do not know how disgusted they would be if one of their sons turned out to be "like Pete Rose".

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic

  2. The Pet Collective occasionally shows slow motion video clips of dogs failing at dog. Jumping up when the ball or snack goes down, or getting conked in the head with it.

  3. If your dog has a gambling problem, help is available and it works. Call 1-800-GAMBLER.

    On a serious note, do you think Rose will get in the Hall of Fame after he dies?

    • LOL: ThreeCranes
  4. That’s an amazing mane he had, especially at 39.

    I’m too young to remember his MLB career despite how long it lasted, so I had to read up on him. I don’t really understand why it was so scandalous to bet on his own team. Where is the ethical problem there?

    • Replies: @Danindc
    @AndrewR

    Because when you bet a lot on your own team to win there is a decent chance you could misuse pitchers desperately trying to get the win. You also have inside information that would be deemed unfair and could be used against you. For example, why is Pete betting so much on the Reds to win today? Maybe the next day he doesn’t bet at all so what does he know that we don’t know…?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    , @Feryl
    @AndrewR

    MLB is much tougher on gambling than the other leagues due to the 1919 Black Sox scandal (in the ensuing aftermath of that, the league ended up banning for life any Sox player who merely heard the negotiations between the crooked players and/or organized crime figures, if memory serves 8/9 of the starting line-up was banned including star player Joe Jackson who played well in the series).

    The NFL on the other hand is a joke. Look up Dan Moldea on YouTube for a rundown on how the league has habitually looked the other way at gambling. If memory serves the league only acknowledges that like two games (!) in league history were affected by players, coaches, or league officials gambling.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @Ganderson

    , @Jonathan Mason
    @AndrewR


    I don’t really understand why it was so scandalous to bet on his own team. Where is the ethical problem there?
     
    It is only a short step from there to bribing the opponents to lose, and then having the opponents betting on your team to win.

    Gives a new meaning to the notion of win-win.
  5. “…that’s what Pete Rose does because he loves baseball.”

    Which inspired him to say maybe the most American thing ever: “I’d walk through hell in a gasoline suit to play baseball.”

  6. It’s probably Rose’s competitiveness which drove him to gamble, including on baseball. But I doubt he would have bet against a team he was playing for or managing.

    “Charlie Hustle” was the icon of all-out competitiveness before the legend of Michael Jordan surpassed Rose. Jordan was also known to be a profligate gambler. I have no evidence of this but it would not surprise me a single iota if Jordan wagered on the Bulls to win against the spread during his career through cut outs, but I doubt he would have bet against the Bulls or been tempted to shave points. It just seems like betting on himself would have amped up his motivation to win, similar to the way it is reported that he would imagine opposing players trash talking him to motivate himself.

    Rose’s competitiveness and spirit is probably what kept him from doing what MLB wanted him to do in order to be welcomed back into the fold. But he did apologize so I don’t know why we’re still punishing him:

    • Replies: @megabar
    @Alec Leamas (working from home)

    > But he did apologize so I don’t know why we’re still punishing him:

    An apology, by itself, is pretty meaningless. When people say "I regret my actions, but it's time to move on," they are usually trying to avoid consequences. If you actually regret your actions, you're willing to accept the appropriate punishment.

    Now, if you just mean that you think that Rose's punishment is too harsh, then ok. But my understanding is that baseball was very clear that betting was a permanent ban.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (working from home)

    , @Hibernian
    @Alec Leamas (working from home)


    It’s probably Rose’s competitiveness which drove him to gamble, including on baseball. But I doubt he would have bet against a team he was playing for or managing.
     
    If a player ordinarily bets on his own team, his bookie gains valuable intel when he doesn't bet or doesn't bet as much on them. This is one reason for the rule barring them from even associating with gamblers.

    Replies: @Bostonvegas

    , @Dr. DoomNGloom
    @Alec Leamas (working from home)


    But I doubt he would have bet against a team he was playing for or managing.
     
    Though not as bad, any betting on a game he was involved with would be a problem (depending on the bet). He would, for example, be incentivized to run up the score or leave in a better pitcher to keep the score from getting out of hand.

    In contrast, Earl Weaver consistently beat the so-called Pythagorean projection. He didn't do this by winning more than he should, but by throwing the mop-up men into a bad game and allowing the losses to become more lop-sided. That is, he wouldn't waste resources for a low probability comeback at the risk of not having a fresh arm in a competitive game.

    For years, I advocated pulling the goalie in ice hockey earlier and spoke to a NHL head coach about it. Nonetheless, it didn't become a thing until Patrick Roy did it. Ironically, it's part of why gamblers don't like hockey goal spreads anymore.

    So while betting on oneself isn't in the same category as betting against, or point shaving, it does affect the integrity of the game.

    Replies: @I, Libertine

    , @Jim Christian
    @Alec Leamas (working from home)


    Jordan was also known to be a profligate gambler.
     
    SailerMan probably remembers this from John Feinstein's book A Good Walk Spoiled, a book mostly about the PGA Tour and the golfing majors. In the book, Davis Love III opined that when both he and Jordan were student athletes at NC (Love golf, Jordan of course basketball), he got Jordan started in golf. Love said that Jordan became such a profligate golfing gambler that he "felt like having given Jordan a set of golf clubs was as if he had given Dillinger his first machine gun".

    Apparently he and Phil Michelson are neck and neck in gambling losses in the tens of millions, much of Jordan's, on the golf course.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  7. • Thanks: The Anti-Gnostic
    • LOL: AnotherDad
    • Replies: @Anon
    @MEH 0910

    Diving head first into bases is one of the most fun things in baseball. I loved doing it in Little League. I'm lucky I never got hurt though doing it.

    In Little League in the 90s, the coaches always told us that sliding head first was slower than sliding legs first, and so not to do it, but now I wonder if that was just an excuse for safety reasons. Because it never made sense to me that sliding head first would be slower when you're in a full sprint on the base path with a forward lean and all that momentum going anyway.

    We were also told by coaches in 90s Little League to swing down and level into the ball, rather than swing uppercut style like kids naturally will do. Turns out that was wrong advice based on what the pros do now.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @JR Ewing, @R.G. Camara, @The Anti-Gnostic, @Brutusale

  8. Meanwhile, here is Pete Rose on live TV from a Phillies broadcast a week ago…

  9. There’s a game even closer to your heart that’s under attack.

    French Climate Extremists Fill Golf Course Holes with Cement During Drought

    https://www.breitbart.com/sports/2022/08/14/french-climate-extremists-fill-golf-course-holes-with-cement-during-drought/

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas (working from home)
    @Bill Jones


    There’s a game even closer to your heart that’s under attack.

    French Climate Extremists Fill Golf Course Holes with Cement During Drought

     


     
    Would like to see someone pen something in homage to Pope's The Rape of the Lock.
    , @kaganovitch
    @Bill Jones

    French Climate Extremists Fill Golf Course Holes with Cement During Drought

    Drawing and quartering is too good for them, the bastards.

    , @AnotherDad
    @Bill Jones

    Climate loons will target anything and everything except ... immigration.

    Replies: @JR Ewing

  10. Once again Kunstler is worth a read.

    It should be pretty obvious that the FBI raid on Mar-a-Lago was an attempt to seize evidence likely to be used in former President Donald Trump’s civil lawsuit in the Southern Florida Federal District Court against Hillary Clinton and associated defendants in and out of government for the defamation and racketeering operation known as RussiaGate — AND in any future criminal proceedings that might grow out of congressional investigations-to-come against officials past and present in the DOJ and FBI. The idea is to tie up all those documents in a legal dispute about declassification so they can’t be entered in any proceeding.

    Over the weekend, independent journalist Paul Sperry reported that many of the same FBI officers involved in the Mar-a-Lago raid happen to be subjects of Special Counsel John Durham’s investigation into the origins of RussiaGate. Have some of them already been hauled into grand juries? We don’t know. But, with the Mar-a-Lago caper, it looks like the law enforcement apparatus of the federal government is seeking to suppress evidence of its own long-running criminal enterprise.

    https://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/a-different-sort-of-warrant/

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Bill Jones

    This is all Mueller was doing all that time was tying up evidence so it couldn't be used against the Clinton-Obama mob.

  11. Don’t let Lambo get banned from the Canine Hall of Fame — for betting wiener dog races

    • LOL: kaganovitch
  12. I saw Pete play dozens of times in person, thousand on TV.One thing he did later on you never saw on TV. If he had the ball at first after the last out, he would throw the ball really hard against the ground as he was nearing the mound going into the dugout. The ball would bound really high and land near the mound. Never seen anyone else do that. I thought it was really cool, like your bouncing the ball example.

    Rose was really fun to watch, crazy competitive.
    Just a few off top of my head:
    Running to first after BB
    Ray Fosse
    Giving finger or fist to Mets fans after home run in playoffs
    Fight with Mets SS Bud Harrelson
    Incredible dive into third in 75 WS game 7
    Reviving the dive itself
    Stretching singles into doubles
    Not fast but greatest base runner I ever sawIMHO, scored 100 runs every year
    When in outfield, pushing mitt forward when catching fly balls
    Throwing out tagging guy on 3rd from deep left on Monday night game
    Making Phillies a winner
    Starting rallies leading off late innings with a single
    Vicious line drive base hits , especially from left side
    Micky Rivers line drive catch from like 10 feet away 76 WS
    Wanting to be 1st singles hitter to make 100K
    Flat top hair early then Prince Valiant later
    I could go on…

    I guess he is asshole real life, but what fun to watch( unless you were opposing team fans who often hated him).

    One last anecdote:
    After game interview with Sparky on radio, he says something like”In all seriousness, I want to say something about Pete Rose”
    I am expecting something deep or emotional or profound.
    Instead , Sparky says “ Pete is an animal”

    • Agree: FPD72
    • Thanks: Danindc
  13. It is amazing that MLB could be so stupid as to alienate him from the game. They should have just settled the gambling accusations quietly, and allowed him to return. The NBA allowed Michael Jordan to return, and we still don’t know exactly what he did.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @Roger

    Same for Paul Hornung and Alex Karras. Of course that was a very long time ago.

  14. He looks like Underdog in that picture.

    • Replies: @Curle
    @Curle

    https://d1466nnw0ex81e.cloudfront.net/n_iv/600/1094771.jpg

  15. Steve, we know you love Lambo. She’s a stunning-looking girl and all, but be aware:

    From The Lancet:

    Evidence of human-to-dog transmission of monkeypox virus

    Here we describe the first case of a dog with confirmed monkeypox virus infection that might have been acquired through human transmission…

    Two men who have sex with men attended Pitié-Salpêtrière Hospital, Paris, France, on June 10, 2022…

    The men are non-exclusive partners living in the same household…

    The men had presented with anal ulceration 6 days after sex with other partners. In patient 1, anal ulceration was followed by a vesiculopustular rash on the face, ears, and legs; in patient 2, on the legs and back. In both cases, rash was associated with asthenia, headaches, and fever 4 days later…

    Monkeypox virus was assayed by real-time PCR…

    12 days after symptom onset, their male Italian greyhound, aged 4 years and with no previous medical disorders, presented with mucocutaneous lesions, including abdomen pustules and a thin anal ulceration…

    The dog tested positive for monkeypox virus by use of a PCR protocol…

    The men reported co-sleeping with their dog.

    Not that you would have monkeypox and give it to Lambo, but just don’t let her get near any pride celebrations or sleep over at any of your Hollywood friends’ houses.

    • Thanks: Redneck farmer
    • Replies: @John Johnson
    @Buzz Mohawk

    So one has HIV and the other knows and is still buttsecsing him.

    One of them got buttpox from a stranger.

    At least one of them butt raped the dog.

    Does our "just like straights" resident defender of gay men want to chime in on this?

    , @SunBakedSuburb
    @Buzz Mohawk

    "Steve, we know you love Lambo."

    Is it love, or something worse?

    "She's a stunning looking girl ..."

    More than stunning. Shimmery. That's why Steve hanged a U on Buena Vista at 3:33 that dark and eerie morning. His eyes were drawn to the rearview mirror and he found Lambo, under the golden light of the street lamp outside the Disney Studios in Burbank. Lambo beckoned to Steve with its sleek, shimmery essence. Like everything else with Disney, it was magick.

    "monkeypox"

    It's too late for our beloved Steve. When he opened his car door to what he calls Lambo he opened himself to the monkeypox situation. He is now a prisoner of the Disney Miasma.

  16. Man and dog, both and each, define the purity of their nature by their devotion to mission. Pure devotion, pure man, pure dog. For the European, the dog is a thing of beauty, the symbol of loyalty beyond death; for the Arab the dog is a large rat, which reflects more on the man than the dog. A woman is a woman as soon as she can bear young, and the most noisome government program is a success when it pays the constituency, and bread and paper absorb, and paint and leather rejects, and cattle die, but a man isn’t a man unless he can set aside inconvenience, time, distance, pain, and fear, and just go for the one — and ditto for dogs, which is entirely why we love them. I remember a relative’s dog, which had only two settings: 110% Message to Garcia or Dionysian exhaustion. He was either charging at you with everything he had on his stubbly little legs or he was dead tired from too much of the former.

  17. Addictions to substances are now viewed by many, if not most, as illnesses. But addiction to gambling retains its status as a moral failing.

    Nevertheless, I don’t know how things are elsewhere, but here in NYC, one cannot listen to an hour of commercial radio on sports talk stations – and increasingly, on stations of any format – without hearing several exhortations to download an app to your phone that lets you bet on any sporting event in the world (as if cell phones aren’t addictive enough). And your first bet is risk free, in the sense that if you lose it, you may risk losing the same money again for a few days. Three-bet, same-game parleys! Or bet on the result of the next plate appearance. Make it rain, baby!

    Does it ever occur to people that if these internet bookies can afford all this advertising, and pay off the”winners,” it’s a rigged game? It preys on the addicted; it’s more fraudulent than Kars4Kids. And yet TBTB allow the public airwaves to be used in furtherance this scam. Whatever happened to “click on a mouse, and lose your house.” I guess the other side outspent Sheldon Adelson; the appropriate palms were greased. And remember: MLB gets its cut of the tainted proceeds!!

    According to the evidence adduced, Pete Rose never bet against the Reds. He just wouldn’t bet on games that Bill Gullickson started. He wasn’t exactly the Black Sox reincarnate.

    Based on the above, why is he still such a pariah?

    • Replies: @FPD72
    @I, Libertine


    According to the evidence adduced, Pete Rose never bet against the Reds….why is he such a pariah?
     
    Baseball is a 162 game season. You don’t want a manager abusing his pitching staff or otherwise hurting the roster in an all-out effort to win some random mid-season game to the detriment of the remaining season.

    It can even effect future seasons. As manager of the 1980 A’s, Billy Martin had his starters pitch complete games if at all possible. By 1982 the A’s staff was in shambles by mid-season. Was it because of Martin? That’s what many critics believed at the time.

    Replies: @I, Libertine

  18. I bet that your dog stretches out the same way on a leap or lunge.
    Our Corgi does the same. Beautiful to watch.
    Some dogs can almost fly or float in the air.

  19. It’s not that Peter Rose was like just any dog but he was like certain dogs – dogs that have HEART. We lost our dog of almost 15 yrs in Feb. and she was a Peter Rose kind of dog. If she was drinking water, this was surely the best water EVER and she went at that water bowl as if she hadn’t had a drink in days (even though her last drink was 10 minutes ago). If you gave her something to chew on, she was going to chew at it until it was torn to shreds – we gave up trying to find an unrippable stuffed toy (nylabones worked although they did get shorter eventually).

    It was all very Zen – she really taught me the value of living in the moment. When she was chasing a rabbit, she was chasing a rabbit – she wasn’t thinking about whether she had scheduled the credit card payment before the due date or even thinking other doggy thoughts about having a drink of water – at that moment she was CHASING A RABBIT will all of her strength and energy and that was IT. The rest of the world would disappear for that moment.

    Then a few weeks ago we dog sat a niece’s dog and he was nothing like that. Everything was very meh to him. I don’t know whether his owner had broken his spirit or if he didn’t have any in the first place, but he was just going thru the motions of being a dog – his heart just wasn’t in it.

    • Replies: @Tracy
    @Jack D

    I'm sorry about your dog, Jack. It's hard as Hell to lose a pet, and yours sounds like she was extra-special. If you're Catholic, this page might give you some solace: Catholics and the Animal World.

    Re. Pete Rose: when I was a little kid, I met him and asked if it hurt when he did those belly slides into bases. He said "Nah, I wouldn't do it if it hurt." And that was my big brush with baseball fame.

    , @Macumazahn
    @Jack D

    Yes, great comment. That's how my dog is, and how Pete Rose played - total commitment.

  20. One out later, the Phillies were World Champs.

    No, they weren’t. They were World Series champs. You don’t get to announce yourself as world champions without issuing a challenge. Never mind Japan; don’t trust any claim that leaves out Cuba and the Dominican Republic.

    In the 1980s and 1990s, the Seibu Lions were Japan’s equivalent of the 1920s or 1950s New York Yankees. They won 13 league titles in a 17-year stretch, and six Japan Series in a seven-year period.

    One of those came in 1987, the year the pathetic, literally mediocre Minnesota Twins announced their own “world championship”. The only reason they had a postseason at all was because the “division” boundary was slanted. Milwaukee is about 15 miles farther west than is Chicago. The Brewers were one of four teams in the East with a better record than the Twins.

    They were by a hair the only team in their division with a winning record, and clinched a week before the end of the regular season. After which they went on vacation/strike, losing their final seven games, getting a good rest for the undeserved postseason. There is something deeply unethical about that.

    Meanwhile, Detroit and Toronto were engaged in one of the fiercest pennant fights of the century, both closing in on 100 wins. The results of that effort were thrown in the trash. There is something deeply unethical about that.

    I’ll sit back now and wait for Scarlet Commenter to label me a Troll. The first season I followed was the 1967 American League race, so I was spoiled, evidently. But real pennant races were fun, and that was the second-to-last.

    • Troll: ScarletNumber
    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Reg Cæsar

    I agree with you that calling the winner of the contest between the AL and the NL the "World Champion" is a bit presumptuous but I would bet that the Twins would have beaten the Lions anyway.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @Ron Mexico
    @Reg Cæsar

    Agree with 87. The Tigers deserved to have home field to begin the ALCS. The Jays were better than the Twinkies, as well.

    , @Danindc
    @Reg Cæsar

    Interesting point but them’s the breaks. The Twins got lucky to be in a sh*tty division. My Maryland terrapins had some of the greatest college basketball teams of the 1970s but only one team went to the NCAA championship from the ACC. they were behind Duke North Carolina etc. The John Lucas team of 74 easily would’ve run the table if they did not lose to David Thompson’s legendary NC State team.

    Same with my Orioles. Always behind the Yankees in the mid 70s early 80s. Some of those teams easily where the second best in baseball. Maybe the best.

    actually the more I think about it, this is a screw job!!

    Replies: @Liberty Mike

    , @Feryl
    @Reg Cæsar

    What about the rumors that the Metrodome's airflow was altered to flow against the opposing offense and then reversed to assist the home offense?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @Paul Jolliffe
    @Reg Cæsar

    You may remember, Reg, that the 1987 Tigers needed to take two of three from the Blue Jays on the last weekend of the regular season to force an extra game to determine the division championship.

    However, the Monday game wasn’t needed because the Tigers swept the Jays.

    I remember - I was in the upper deck centerfield bleachers in the immortal Tiger Stadium for that Friday’s game.

    4-3 Detroit, as Doyle Alexander remained undefeated after the Tigers traded John Smoltz to get him.

    Great title chase down the stretch!

  21. his explanation for the head first dive was that it was less dangerous than the customary foot first slide, his reasoning being that you can take a minor injury to your arms and stay in the game, but if you slide feet first wrong and mess up your foot, ankle, or knee, that puts you out of the game.

    like the Rick Barry free throw i doubt we’ll ever see that again. kind of the reverse of the Fosbury flop. the unusual, possibly effective thing that absolutely never caught on.

    • Replies: @Danindc
    @prime noticer

    Plusit’s easier to maneuver your hands around the tag than your feet. I think I remember him saying that or a coach teaching me that..or maybe I made it up.

  22. @Bill Jones
    There's a game even closer to your heart that's under attack.

    French Climate Extremists Fill Golf Course Holes with Cement During Drought
     

    https://www.breitbart.com/sports/2022/08/14/french-climate-extremists-fill-golf-course-holes-with-cement-during-drought/

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (working from home), @kaganovitch, @AnotherDad

    There’s a game even closer to your heart that’s under attack.

    French Climate Extremists Fill Golf Course Holes with Cement During Drought

    Would like to see someone pen something in homage to Pope’s The Rape of the Lock.

  23. @Reg Cæsar

    One out later, the Phillies were World Champs.
     
    No, they weren't. They were World Series champs. You don't get to announce yourself as world champions without issuing a challenge. Never mind Japan; don't trust any claim that leaves out Cuba and the Dominican Republic.

    In the 1980s and 1990s, the Seibu Lions were Japan's equivalent of the 1920s or 1950s New York Yankees. They won 13 league titles in a 17-year stretch, and six Japan Series in a seven-year period.

    One of those came in 1987, the year the pathetic, literally mediocre Minnesota Twins announced their own "world championship". The only reason they had a postseason at all was because the "division" boundary was slanted. Milwaukee is about 15 miles farther west than is Chicago. The Brewers were one of four teams in the East with a better record than the Twins.

    They were by a hair the only team in their division with a winning record, and clinched a week before the end of the regular season. After which they went on vacation/strike, losing their final seven games, getting a good rest for the undeserved postseason. There is something deeply unethical about that.

    Meanwhile, Detroit and Toronto were engaged in one of the fiercest pennant fights of the century, both closing in on 100 wins. The results of that effort were thrown in the trash. There is something deeply unethical about that.

    I'll sit back now and wait for Scarlet Commenter to label me a Troll. The first season I followed was the 1967 American League race, so I was spoiled, evidently. But real pennant races were fun, and that was the second-to-last.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Ron Mexico, @Danindc, @Feryl, @Paul Jolliffe

    I agree with you that calling the winner of the contest between the AL and the NL the “World Champion” is a bit presumptuous but I would bet that the Twins would have beaten the Lions anyway.

    • Agree: Bernard
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Jack D


    I agree with you that calling the winner of the contest between the AL and the NL the “World Champion” is a bit presumptuous but I would bet that the Twins would have beaten the Lions anyway.
     
    I don't. Unless they had the advantage of a week's unearned rest.
  24. If you need “Pete Rose” transliterated to Arabic, Chinese, Greek, Japanese, Korean, Russian, here is the place to go:

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rosepe01.shtml#all_1957432667

    Sorry, no Hebrew.

    Was he the greatest player ever to don an Expos uniform? Anyway, he played 18+ seasons in his hometown. Who are the best who have done that? Lou Gehrig, for sure. Babe Ruth should have been one. The Orioles of his day were better than many of the major league teams.

    For what it’s worth, Jeff Bronkey was the only major leaguer born in Afghanistan. Al Campanis was the only one born in Greece. The only two Chinese-born players, Harry Kingman and Austin Brice, appeared over a hundred years apart. However, Brice was born in Hong Kong in 1992, so that wasn’t quite China yet.

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rosepe01.shtml#all_1957432667

    • Replies: @FPD72
    @Reg Cæsar

    How about פיטר עלה? That’s the proper name “Peter” transliterated into Hebrew followed by the word for “rose.”

    Replies: @kaganovitch

    , @Liberty Mike
    @Reg Cæsar

    Good ole Al lacked the necessaries to effectively convey to Ted Koppell what he had noticed all his life in baseball.

    , @ScarletNumber
    @Reg Cæsar


    Was he the greatest player ever to don an Expos uniform?
     
    In terms of production as an Expo, definitely not. I would say it was Gary Carter. To answer your question literally Pete was probably the greatest position player to don the uniform, although I'm partial to Rusty Staub. If you are including pitchers it is tough to ignore Randy Johnson and Pedro.

    Anyway, he played 18+ seasons in his hometown. Who are the best who have done that?
     
    As the crow flies, Bridgehampton High School is only 115 miles from Fenway Park while it is 85 miles from Yankee Stadium. That's how close Yaz came.

    Replies: @kaganovitch

  25. @Jack D
    @Reg Cæsar

    I agree with you that calling the winner of the contest between the AL and the NL the "World Champion" is a bit presumptuous but I would bet that the Twins would have beaten the Lions anyway.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    I agree with you that calling the winner of the contest between the AL and the NL the “World Champion” is a bit presumptuous but I would bet that the Twins would have beaten the Lions anyway.

    I don’t. Unless they had the advantage of a week’s unearned rest.

  26. @I, Libertine
    Addictions to substances are now viewed by many, if not most, as illnesses. But addiction to gambling retains its status as a moral failing.

    Nevertheless, I don't know how things are elsewhere, but here in NYC, one cannot listen to an hour of commercial radio on sports talk stations - and increasingly, on stations of any format - without hearing several exhortations to download an app to your phone that lets you bet on any sporting event in the world (as if cell phones aren't addictive enough). And your first bet is risk free, in the sense that if you lose it, you may risk losing the same money again for a few days. Three-bet, same-game parleys! Or bet on the result of the next plate appearance. Make it rain, baby!

    Does it ever occur to people that if these internet bookies can afford all this advertising, and pay off the"winners," it's a rigged game? It preys on the addicted; it's more fraudulent than Kars4Kids. And yet TBTB allow the public airwaves to be used in furtherance this scam. Whatever happened to "click on a mouse, and lose your house." I guess the other side outspent Sheldon Adelson; the appropriate palms were greased. And remember: MLB gets its cut of the tainted proceeds!!

    According to the evidence adduced, Pete Rose never bet against the Reds. He just wouldn't bet on games that Bill Gullickson started. He wasn't exactly the Black Sox reincarnate.

    Based on the above, why is he still such a pariah?

    Replies: @FPD72

    According to the evidence adduced, Pete Rose never bet against the Reds….why is he such a pariah?

    Baseball is a 162 game season. You don’t want a manager abusing his pitching staff or otherwise hurting the roster in an all-out effort to win some random mid-season game to the detriment of the remaining season.

    It can even effect future seasons. As manager of the 1980 A’s, Billy Martin had his starters pitch complete games if at all possible. By 1982 the A’s staff was in shambles by mid-season. Was it because of Martin? That’s what many critics believed at the time.

    • Thanks: Hibernian
    • Replies: @I, Libertine
    @FPD72

    Thanks for making sure that I'm aware of the obvious.

    "[A] manager abusing his pitching staff or otherwise hurting the roster in an all-out effort to win some random mid-season game. . ." isn't exactly the Black Sox. That was the point I was making. Do you disagree, or did you just miss it.

  27. @Bill Jones
    There's a game even closer to your heart that's under attack.

    French Climate Extremists Fill Golf Course Holes with Cement During Drought
     

    https://www.breitbart.com/sports/2022/08/14/french-climate-extremists-fill-golf-course-holes-with-cement-during-drought/

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (working from home), @kaganovitch, @AnotherDad

    French Climate Extremists Fill Golf Course Holes with Cement During Drought

    Drawing and quartering is too good for them, the bastards.

  28. @Reg Cæsar
    If you need "Pete Rose" transliterated to Arabic, Chinese, Greek, Japanese, Korean, Russian, here is the place to go:

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rosepe01.shtml#all_1957432667


    Sorry, no Hebrew.

    Was he the greatest player ever to don an Expos uniform? Anyway, he played 18+ seasons in his hometown. Who are the best who have done that? Lou Gehrig, for sure. Babe Ruth should have been one. The Orioles of his day were better than many of the major league teams.

    For what it's worth, Jeff Bronkey was the only major leaguer born in Afghanistan. Al Campanis was the only one born in Greece. The only two Chinese-born players, Harry Kingman and Austin Brice, appeared over a hundred years apart. However, Brice was born in Hong Kong in 1992, so that wasn't quite China yet.

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rosepe01.shtml#all_1957432667

    Replies: @FPD72, @Liberty Mike, @ScarletNumber

    How about פיטר עלה? That’s the proper name “Peter” transliterated into Hebrew followed by the word for “rose.”

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @FPD72

    How about פיטר עלה? That’s the proper name “Peter” transliterated into Hebrew followed by the word for “rose.”

    Not even close. עלה is 'leaf', Rose is ורד.

    Replies: @FPD72

  29. Anon[146] • Disclaimer says:
    @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/super70ssports/status/1513536266259906567

    https://twitter.com/Super70sSports/status/1530935155329843200

    Replies: @Anon

    Diving head first into bases is one of the most fun things in baseball. I loved doing it in Little League. I’m lucky I never got hurt though doing it.

    In Little League in the 90s, the coaches always told us that sliding head first was slower than sliding legs first, and so not to do it, but now I wonder if that was just an excuse for safety reasons. Because it never made sense to me that sliding head first would be slower when you’re in a full sprint on the base path with a forward lean and all that momentum going anyway.

    We were also told by coaches in 90s Little League to swing down and level into the ball, rather than swing uppercut style like kids naturally will do. Turns out that was wrong advice based on what the pros do now.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    The error rate on ground balls is so high in Little League it probably makes short term sense to just try to hit ground balls.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara

    , @JR Ewing
    @Anon

    Headfirst slides are illegal in Little League now and a runner is automatically out if he does it.

    Note that this is only LL itself and only why attempting to advance. You can still dive back to the bag. Other youth leagues allow it at all times.

    , @R.G. Camara
    @Anon


    We were also told by coaches in 90s Little League to swing down and level into the ball, rather than swing uppercut style like kids naturally will do
     
    "Down" and "level" are not the same thing. Swinging down gets you grounders, level supposedly leads to line drives. We were taught level, not down.

    Most little kids want to whack dingers, so swing wildly for the fences every time. Coaching them away from that and trying for higher-percentage hits are what that coaching is about.
    , @The Anti-Gnostic
    @Anon

    I was myopic so my baseball hopes crashed and burned early, but forward dives were of course what one did in football and rugby. You have to land at a very specific angle of attack to keep your forward momentum going when you head in feet-first.

    , @Brutusale
    @Anon

    Pop-up slide. Easier to advance on a blown defensive play, which are legion in Little League.

  30. @FPD72
    @I, Libertine


    According to the evidence adduced, Pete Rose never bet against the Reds….why is he such a pariah?
     
    Baseball is a 162 game season. You don’t want a manager abusing his pitching staff or otherwise hurting the roster in an all-out effort to win some random mid-season game to the detriment of the remaining season.

    It can even effect future seasons. As manager of the 1980 A’s, Billy Martin had his starters pitch complete games if at all possible. By 1982 the A’s staff was in shambles by mid-season. Was it because of Martin? That’s what many critics believed at the time.

    Replies: @I, Libertine

    Thanks for making sure that I’m aware of the obvious.

    “[A] manager abusing his pitching staff or otherwise hurting the roster in an all-out effort to win some random mid-season game. . .” isn’t exactly the Black Sox. That was the point I was making. Do you disagree, or did you just miss it.

  31. the reason he had to be banned was that he was gambling on baseball and that is forbidden and everybody knew it. The game could not afford a repeat of the Black Sox scandal. How did Pete’s gambling threaten the game? He bet on his own team to win. So what was the problem?

    He could have lost more than he could afford to, it happens often, and then he is beholden to the people who make book. From then on it could be downhill to the bottomless pit.

    Besides, he was a jerk. But a lot of fun to watch.

  32. @Buzz Mohawk
    Steve, we know you love Lambo. She's a stunning-looking girl and all, but be aware:

    From The Lancet:

    Evidence of human-to-dog transmission of monkeypox virus

    Here we describe the first case of a dog with confirmed monkeypox virus infection that might have been acquired through human transmission...

    Two men who have sex with men attended Pitié-Salpêtrière Hospital, Paris, France, on June 10, 2022...

    The men are non-exclusive partners living in the same household...

    The men had presented with anal ulceration 6 days after sex with other partners. In patient 1, anal ulceration was followed by a vesiculopustular rash on the face, ears, and legs; in patient 2, on the legs and back. In both cases, rash was associated with asthenia, headaches, and fever 4 days later...

    Monkeypox virus was assayed by real-time PCR...

    12 days after symptom onset, their male Italian greyhound, aged 4 years and with no previous medical disorders, presented with mucocutaneous lesions, including abdomen pustules and a thin anal ulceration...

    The dog tested positive for monkeypox virus by use of a PCR protocol...

    The men reported co-sleeping with their dog.
     
    Not that you would have monkeypox and give it to Lambo, but just don't let her get near any pride celebrations or sleep over at any of your Hollywood friends' houses.

    Replies: @John Johnson, @SunBakedSuburb

    So one has HIV and the other knows and is still buttsecsing him.

    One of them got buttpox from a stranger.

    At least one of them butt raped the dog.

    Does our “just like straights” resident defender of gay men want to chime in on this?

  33. @Buzz Mohawk
    Steve, we know you love Lambo. She's a stunning-looking girl and all, but be aware:

    From The Lancet:

    Evidence of human-to-dog transmission of monkeypox virus

    Here we describe the first case of a dog with confirmed monkeypox virus infection that might have been acquired through human transmission...

    Two men who have sex with men attended Pitié-Salpêtrière Hospital, Paris, France, on June 10, 2022...

    The men are non-exclusive partners living in the same household...

    The men had presented with anal ulceration 6 days after sex with other partners. In patient 1, anal ulceration was followed by a vesiculopustular rash on the face, ears, and legs; in patient 2, on the legs and back. In both cases, rash was associated with asthenia, headaches, and fever 4 days later...

    Monkeypox virus was assayed by real-time PCR...

    12 days after symptom onset, their male Italian greyhound, aged 4 years and with no previous medical disorders, presented with mucocutaneous lesions, including abdomen pustules and a thin anal ulceration...

    The dog tested positive for monkeypox virus by use of a PCR protocol...

    The men reported co-sleeping with their dog.
     
    Not that you would have monkeypox and give it to Lambo, but just don't let her get near any pride celebrations or sleep over at any of your Hollywood friends' houses.

    Replies: @John Johnson, @SunBakedSuburb

    “Steve, we know you love Lambo.”

    Is it love, or something worse?

    “She’s a stunning looking girl …”

    More than stunning. Shimmery. That’s why Steve hanged a U on Buena Vista at 3:33 that dark and eerie morning. His eyes were drawn to the rearview mirror and he found Lambo, under the golden light of the street lamp outside the Disney Studios in Burbank. Lambo beckoned to Steve with its sleek, shimmery essence. Like everything else with Disney, it was magick.

    “monkeypox”

    It’s too late for our beloved Steve. When he opened his car door to what he calls Lambo he opened himself to the monkeypox situation. He is now a prisoner of the Disney Miasma.

  34. Why Does Pete Rose Remind Me of My Dog?

    Do you know you know your dog’s sire?

  35. @Alec Leamas (working from home)
    It's probably Rose's competitiveness which drove him to gamble, including on baseball. But I doubt he would have bet against a team he was playing for or managing.

    "Charlie Hustle" was the icon of all-out competitiveness before the legend of Michael Jordan surpassed Rose. Jordan was also known to be a profligate gambler. I have no evidence of this but it would not surprise me a single iota if Jordan wagered on the Bulls to win against the spread during his career through cut outs, but I doubt he would have bet against the Bulls or been tempted to shave points. It just seems like betting on himself would have amped up his motivation to win, similar to the way it is reported that he would imagine opposing players trash talking him to motivate himself.

    Rose's competitiveness and spirit is probably what kept him from doing what MLB wanted him to do in order to be welcomed back into the fold. But he did apologize so I don't know why we're still punishing him:

    https://peterose.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/rose-sorry.jpg

    Replies: @megabar, @Hibernian, @Dr. DoomNGloom, @Jim Christian

    > But he did apologize so I don’t know why we’re still punishing him:

    An apology, by itself, is pretty meaningless. When people say “I regret my actions, but it’s time to move on,” they are usually trying to avoid consequences. If you actually regret your actions, you’re willing to accept the appropriate punishment.

    Now, if you just mean that you think that Rose’s punishment is too harsh, then ok. But my understanding is that baseball was very clear that betting was a permanent ban.

    • Thanks: R.G. Camara
    • Replies: @Alec Leamas (working from home)
    @megabar



    > But he did apologize so I don’t know why we’re still punishing him:
     
    An apology, by itself, is pretty meaningless. When people say “I regret my actions, but it’s time to move on,” they are usually trying to avoid consequences. If you actually regret your actions, you’re willing to accept the appropriate punishment.

    Now, if you just mean that you think that Rose’s punishment is too harsh, then ok. But my understanding is that baseball was very clear that betting was a permanent ban.
     
    The issue for me is that: 1) there never was any evidence whatsoever that Rose bet against the Reds - baseball makes no distinction but reasonable people do; and, 2) he was an integral part of three World Series Champion teams and holds the all time hits record ahead of Ty Cobb and Hank Aaron so the idea that he's not one of the greatest to ever play the game is ridiculous. Any Hall of Fame worth its name would include one of the greatest to ever play its game. At the time of the "ban" you could have prohibited any participation in Major League Baseball for life prospectively while also recognizing the sheer greatness of his career and not making a mockery of the Baseball Hall of Fame. It's not just a punishment for Rose which may be disproportionate, it's the make-believe aspect of pretending he doesn't exist.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Hibernian

  36. @Bill Jones
    There's a game even closer to your heart that's under attack.

    French Climate Extremists Fill Golf Course Holes with Cement During Drought
     

    https://www.breitbart.com/sports/2022/08/14/french-climate-extremists-fill-golf-course-holes-with-cement-during-drought/

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (working from home), @kaganovitch, @AnotherDad

    Climate loons will target anything and everything except … immigration.

    • Replies: @JR Ewing
    @AnotherDad

    They basically try to be annoying pains in the ass for no other reason than to be annoying pains in the ass. Then, then they get the negative attention they are craving they turn around and say it was for the “climate”.

  37. And the good news keeps on coming

    https://sputniknews.com/20220813/japanese-airline-adds-insect-powder-to-in-flight-meal-to-promote-food-sustainability-1099552518.html

    Japanese Airline Adds Insect Powder to In-Flight Meal to Promote Food Sustainability

  38. It’s probably Rose’s competitiveness which drove him to gamble, including on baseball.

    Rose is sort of the Donald Trump of baseball.

    Trump’s a heck of a lot smarter than Rose, and much better bullshitter. But both guys are super competitive and risk takers. Both like the ladies and have a couple failed marriages and (according wikipedia, who really knows?) both have sired 5 kids from three women.

  39. @Reg Cæsar

    One out later, the Phillies were World Champs.
     
    No, they weren't. They were World Series champs. You don't get to announce yourself as world champions without issuing a challenge. Never mind Japan; don't trust any claim that leaves out Cuba and the Dominican Republic.

    In the 1980s and 1990s, the Seibu Lions were Japan's equivalent of the 1920s or 1950s New York Yankees. They won 13 league titles in a 17-year stretch, and six Japan Series in a seven-year period.

    One of those came in 1987, the year the pathetic, literally mediocre Minnesota Twins announced their own "world championship". The only reason they had a postseason at all was because the "division" boundary was slanted. Milwaukee is about 15 miles farther west than is Chicago. The Brewers were one of four teams in the East with a better record than the Twins.

    They were by a hair the only team in their division with a winning record, and clinched a week before the end of the regular season. After which they went on vacation/strike, losing their final seven games, getting a good rest for the undeserved postseason. There is something deeply unethical about that.

    Meanwhile, Detroit and Toronto were engaged in one of the fiercest pennant fights of the century, both closing in on 100 wins. The results of that effort were thrown in the trash. There is something deeply unethical about that.

    I'll sit back now and wait for Scarlet Commenter to label me a Troll. The first season I followed was the 1967 American League race, so I was spoiled, evidently. But real pennant races were fun, and that was the second-to-last.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Ron Mexico, @Danindc, @Feryl, @Paul Jolliffe

    Agree with 87. The Tigers deserved to have home field to begin the ALCS. The Jays were better than the Twinkies, as well.

  40. Rose was a cheat, and rightfully banned from the HOF and baseball.

    Unlike the steroid abusers like Bonds, McGwire, Alex Cora, or the players on the Houston Astros team that cheated to win the world series. All allowed back into baseball.

    One of the largest reasons I stopped watching baseball.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @R.G. Camara

    The famous 1951 New York Giants, with rookie Willie Mays, who won 44 of their last 51 games to edge the Brooklyn Dodgers on Bobby Thomson's homer, did it by stealing signs, much like the 2017 Astros.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara, @JR Ewing

    , @Anon
    @R.G. Camara

    Or the Red Sox with their Apple Watch sign stealing machine in 2017, which was imitated by the Yankees. Swept under the carpet.

    http://www.espn.com/espn/wire/_/section/mlb/id/20594369

    Or the WS winning Red Sox in 2018, investigated for cheating ("for the third time in five years"), namely sign stealing, but it turned out the buck stopped at a video operator who apparently suborned the whole team. It may seem odd but it happens in Boston every now and then, see the Boston Globe article below. And it wasn't like so bad anyway. Nothing to see here. Report released right before the NFL season started.

    https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/04/22/sports/this-wasnt-huge-scandal-red-sox-it-wasnt-nothing-either/

    https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2020/4/22/21231932/rob-manfred-boston-red-sox-mlb-report-sign-stealing-scandal

    This year, MLB has introduced some sort of gadget for communicating with the pitcher. It seems the problem still persists.

    Replies: @Brutusale

  41. @Curle
    He looks like Underdog in that picture.

    Replies: @Curle

  42. OT: Good news any time white liberals feel pain.

    Minneapolis Will Fire ‘White Teachers’ First

    https://thechalkboardreview.com/report-minneapolis-will-fire-white-teachers-first/

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    Thanks

  43. Your dog has a gambling problem?

  44. @AnotherDad
    @Bill Jones

    Climate loons will target anything and everything except ... immigration.

    Replies: @JR Ewing

    They basically try to be annoying pains in the ass for no other reason than to be annoying pains in the ass. Then, then they get the negative attention they are craving they turn around and say it was for the “climate”.

  45. @Jack D
    It's not that Peter Rose was like just any dog but he was like certain dogs - dogs that have HEART. We lost our dog of almost 15 yrs in Feb. and she was a Peter Rose kind of dog. If she was drinking water, this was surely the best water EVER and she went at that water bowl as if she hadn't had a drink in days (even though her last drink was 10 minutes ago). If you gave her something to chew on, she was going to chew at it until it was torn to shreds - we gave up trying to find an unrippable stuffed toy (nylabones worked although they did get shorter eventually).

    It was all very Zen - she really taught me the value of living in the moment. When she was chasing a rabbit, she was chasing a rabbit - she wasn't thinking about whether she had scheduled the credit card payment before the due date or even thinking other doggy thoughts about having a drink of water - at that moment she was CHASING A RABBIT will all of her strength and energy and that was IT. The rest of the world would disappear for that moment.

    Then a few weeks ago we dog sat a niece's dog and he was nothing like that. Everything was very meh to him. I don't know whether his owner had broken his spirit or if he didn't have any in the first place, but he was just going thru the motions of being a dog - his heart just wasn't in it.

    Replies: @Tracy, @Macumazahn

    I’m sorry about your dog, Jack. It’s hard as Hell to lose a pet, and yours sounds like she was extra-special. If you’re Catholic, this page might give you some solace: Catholics and the Animal World.

    Re. Pete Rose: when I was a little kid, I met him and asked if it hurt when he did those belly slides into bases. He said “Nah, I wouldn’t do it if it hurt.” And that was my big brush with baseball fame.

    • Thanks: Johann Ricke
  46. @megabar
    @Alec Leamas (working from home)

    > But he did apologize so I don’t know why we’re still punishing him:

    An apology, by itself, is pretty meaningless. When people say "I regret my actions, but it's time to move on," they are usually trying to avoid consequences. If you actually regret your actions, you're willing to accept the appropriate punishment.

    Now, if you just mean that you think that Rose's punishment is too harsh, then ok. But my understanding is that baseball was very clear that betting was a permanent ban.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (working from home)

    > But he did apologize so I don’t know why we’re still punishing him:

    An apology, by itself, is pretty meaningless. When people say “I regret my actions, but it’s time to move on,” they are usually trying to avoid consequences. If you actually regret your actions, you’re willing to accept the appropriate punishment.

    Now, if you just mean that you think that Rose’s punishment is too harsh, then ok. But my understanding is that baseball was very clear that betting was a permanent ban.

    The issue for me is that: 1) there never was any evidence whatsoever that Rose bet against the Reds – baseball makes no distinction but reasonable people do; and, 2) he was an integral part of three World Series Champion teams and holds the all time hits record ahead of Ty Cobb and Hank Aaron so the idea that he’s not one of the greatest to ever play the game is ridiculous. Any Hall of Fame worth its name would include one of the greatest to ever play its game. At the time of the “ban” you could have prohibited any participation in Major League Baseball for life prospectively while also recognizing the sheer greatness of his career and not making a mockery of the Baseball Hall of Fame. It’s not just a punishment for Rose which may be disproportionate, it’s the make-believe aspect of pretending he doesn’t exist.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Alec Leamas (working from home)

    Ted Williams' view was that Shoeless Joe Jackson was banned from baseball for life, so he should be posthumously admitted to the Hall of Fame.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @Hibernian
    @Alec Leamas (working from home)

    I can see both sides. I was glad, as a (10 year old) Packer fan that Hornung was reinstated. OTOH, as I and at least one other poster above have noted, there are real problems with a player, or coach, gambling, even if they don't bet against their own team. I'd go for putting hin the HOF with an asterisk.

  47. @AndrewR
    That's an amazing mane he had, especially at 39.

    I'm too young to remember his MLB career despite how long it lasted, so I had to read up on him. I don't really understand why it was so scandalous to bet on his own team. Where is the ethical problem there?

    Replies: @Danindc, @Feryl, @Jonathan Mason

    Because when you bet a lot on your own team to win there is a decent chance you could misuse pitchers desperately trying to get the win. You also have inside information that would be deemed unfair and could be used against you. For example, why is Pete betting so much on the Reds to win today? Maybe the next day he doesn’t bet at all so what does he know that we don’t know…?

    • Agree: Hibernian
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Danindc

    Michael Jordan was likely suspended mid-career over his gambling addiction and the various low-lifes he associated with while gambling.

    Replies: @I, Libertine

  48. @Reg Cæsar

    One out later, the Phillies were World Champs.
     
    No, they weren't. They were World Series champs. You don't get to announce yourself as world champions without issuing a challenge. Never mind Japan; don't trust any claim that leaves out Cuba and the Dominican Republic.

    In the 1980s and 1990s, the Seibu Lions were Japan's equivalent of the 1920s or 1950s New York Yankees. They won 13 league titles in a 17-year stretch, and six Japan Series in a seven-year period.

    One of those came in 1987, the year the pathetic, literally mediocre Minnesota Twins announced their own "world championship". The only reason they had a postseason at all was because the "division" boundary was slanted. Milwaukee is about 15 miles farther west than is Chicago. The Brewers were one of four teams in the East with a better record than the Twins.

    They were by a hair the only team in their division with a winning record, and clinched a week before the end of the regular season. After which they went on vacation/strike, losing their final seven games, getting a good rest for the undeserved postseason. There is something deeply unethical about that.

    Meanwhile, Detroit and Toronto were engaged in one of the fiercest pennant fights of the century, both closing in on 100 wins. The results of that effort were thrown in the trash. There is something deeply unethical about that.

    I'll sit back now and wait for Scarlet Commenter to label me a Troll. The first season I followed was the 1967 American League race, so I was spoiled, evidently. But real pennant races were fun, and that was the second-to-last.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Ron Mexico, @Danindc, @Feryl, @Paul Jolliffe

    Interesting point but them’s the breaks. The Twins got lucky to be in a sh*tty division. My Maryland terrapins had some of the greatest college basketball teams of the 1970s but only one team went to the NCAA championship from the ACC. they were behind Duke North Carolina etc. The John Lucas team of 74 easily would’ve run the table if they did not lose to David Thompson’s legendary NC State team.

    Same with my Orioles. Always behind the Yankees in the mid 70s early 80s. Some of those teams easily where the second best in baseball. Maybe the best.

    actually the more I think about it, this is a screw job!!

    • Replies: @Liberty Mike
    @Danindc

    How about your '73 Terps? That John Lucas, Len Elmore team got smoked by Ernie D. and Bad News Barnes in the regional final.

    Replies: @Danindc

  49. @prime noticer
    his explanation for the head first dive was that it was less dangerous than the customary foot first slide, his reasoning being that you can take a minor injury to your arms and stay in the game, but if you slide feet first wrong and mess up your foot, ankle, or knee, that puts you out of the game.

    like the Rick Barry free throw i doubt we'll ever see that again. kind of the reverse of the Fosbury flop. the unusual, possibly effective thing that absolutely never caught on.

    Replies: @Danindc

    Plusit’s easier to maneuver your hands around the tag than your feet. I think I remember him saying that or a coach teaching me that..or maybe I made it up.

  50. @Danindc
    @AndrewR

    Because when you bet a lot on your own team to win there is a decent chance you could misuse pitchers desperately trying to get the win. You also have inside information that would be deemed unfair and could be used against you. For example, why is Pete betting so much on the Reds to win today? Maybe the next day he doesn’t bet at all so what does he know that we don’t know…?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Michael Jordan was likely suspended mid-career over his gambling addiction and the various low-lifes he associated with while gambling.

    • Replies: @I, Libertine
    @Steve Sailer

    This be the last time I'ma type this out. Promise.

    To anyone who doesn't think Jordan's "retirement" was a suspension, consider the timeline:

    (1) NBA Commissioner David Stern announces an investigation into Chicago Bulls star Michael Jordan's gambling. Preliminary indications seemed to be that he had lost millions.
    (2) The body of murder victim James Jordan, Michael's father, is found and identified months after the crime. Curiously, the Jordan family had not even reported him missing for three weeks after his disappearance.
    (3) Michael announces that, to honor his late father's wishes, he is retiring from basketball at age 29 to embark upon a career in professional baseball. He expresses the thought that, maybe someday, he will return to the NBA if Stern permits.
    (3) Stern announces that, owing to Jordan's retirement, the gambling investigation is moot.
    (4) In one season at the Double - A minor league level, he compiles a slash line of .202/.290/.266.
    (5) One-and one-half basketball seasons later, Jordan announces his return to Bulls.
    (6) Stern announces that, owing to Jordan's return, the gambling investigation is no longer moot and shall be resumed.
    (7) No one remarks upon, or even seems to notice, that (6) never happened.

    BTW, is Jordan in the Basketball Hall of Fame?

    Replies: @Ron Mexico, @R.G. Camara

  51. @Alec Leamas (working from home)
    @megabar



    > But he did apologize so I don’t know why we’re still punishing him:
     
    An apology, by itself, is pretty meaningless. When people say “I regret my actions, but it’s time to move on,” they are usually trying to avoid consequences. If you actually regret your actions, you’re willing to accept the appropriate punishment.

    Now, if you just mean that you think that Rose’s punishment is too harsh, then ok. But my understanding is that baseball was very clear that betting was a permanent ban.
     
    The issue for me is that: 1) there never was any evidence whatsoever that Rose bet against the Reds - baseball makes no distinction but reasonable people do; and, 2) he was an integral part of three World Series Champion teams and holds the all time hits record ahead of Ty Cobb and Hank Aaron so the idea that he's not one of the greatest to ever play the game is ridiculous. Any Hall of Fame worth its name would include one of the greatest to ever play its game. At the time of the "ban" you could have prohibited any participation in Major League Baseball for life prospectively while also recognizing the sheer greatness of his career and not making a mockery of the Baseball Hall of Fame. It's not just a punishment for Rose which may be disproportionate, it's the make-believe aspect of pretending he doesn't exist.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Hibernian

    Ted Williams’ view was that Shoeless Joe Jackson was banned from baseball for life, so he should be posthumously admitted to the Hall of Fame.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Steve Sailer


    Ted Williams’ view was that Shoeless Joe Jackson was banned from baseball for life, so he should be posthumously admitted to the Hall of Fame.
     
    If Rose takes Williams's cryonic route, would the ban be reinstated upon his return to life?
  52. • Replies: @Nicholas Stix
    @Joe Stalin

    "Minor criminal infractions"?! Minor criminal infractions wouldn't keep anyone out of the service today. He's talking about felons.

    The guy is a pc wimp. He shows images of exclusively non-White females in uniform, which he clearly approves of. So, he's pro-homosexualization, pro-affirmative action, and surely pro-sexual psychopath. It doesn't occur to him that promoting such groups is hurting recruitment of fit fighting men.

    , @G. Poulin
    @Joe Stalin

    We shouldn't have a standing national army in the first place. It's one of the reasons the central government can get away with treating Americans as serfs. Having trouble recruiting? Good. F'em.

  53. @Anonymous
    OT: Good news any time white liberals feel pain.

    Minneapolis Will Fire ‘White Teachers’ First

    https://thechalkboardreview.com/report-minneapolis-will-fire-white-teachers-first/

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Thanks

  54. @R.G. Camara
    Rose was a cheat, and rightfully banned from the HOF and baseball.

    Unlike the steroid abusers like Bonds, McGwire, Alex Cora, or the players on the Houston Astros team that cheated to win the world series. All allowed back into baseball.

    One of the largest reasons I stopped watching baseball.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anon

    The famous 1951 New York Giants, with rookie Willie Mays, who won 44 of their last 51 games to edge the Brooklyn Dodgers on Bobby Thomson’s homer, did it by stealing signs, much like the 2017 Astros.

    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
    @Steve Sailer

    That was hidden for decades. When it came out, however, they should have had the victories revoked.

    Pro sports are all fixed/cheated these days. Better to watch pro wrestling, at least the fix is acknowledged and known.

    P.S. just learned that NFL jerk Bill Romanoski (usually voted dirtiest player of his time) not only was a steroid-abusing BALCO psycho, but also once deliberately ended a teammates career by attacking him in practice, ripping off his helmet, and caving in his eye socket, ending his career. The teammate---Marcus Williams---later won a judgment in court against him in court.

    https://infogalactic.com/info/Marcus_Williams_(tight_end)

    And yet Romanowski was still allowed to play in the league (after a mild suspension), and to this day, Romanowski is allowed to be associated with and participate in NFL events and be hired by teams. A sane league would have him banned for life.

    Replies: @Feryl

    , @JR Ewing
    @Steve Sailer

    All MLB teams attempt to steal signs and all are somewhat successful at it, at least in the short term.

    Alex Cora was a bench coach for the team that year and was the mastermind of the Astros scheme. He left to go manage the Red Sox the very next year and did the same thing and got caught there, too.

    The reason the Astros got so much attention that year was sour grapes from the two largest media markets (Yankees and Dodgers) who both got beat along the way during the postseason.

    Mike Fiers is a sorry snitch.

    Replies: @Jim Christian

  55. @Anon
    @MEH 0910

    Diving head first into bases is one of the most fun things in baseball. I loved doing it in Little League. I'm lucky I never got hurt though doing it.

    In Little League in the 90s, the coaches always told us that sliding head first was slower than sliding legs first, and so not to do it, but now I wonder if that was just an excuse for safety reasons. Because it never made sense to me that sliding head first would be slower when you're in a full sprint on the base path with a forward lean and all that momentum going anyway.

    We were also told by coaches in 90s Little League to swing down and level into the ball, rather than swing uppercut style like kids naturally will do. Turns out that was wrong advice based on what the pros do now.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @JR Ewing, @R.G. Camara, @The Anti-Gnostic, @Brutusale

    The error rate on ground balls is so high in Little League it probably makes short term sense to just try to hit ground balls.

    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
    @Steve Sailer

    Kids want to hit homeruns. Coaches are leading them away from that. Sometimes to over correction.

  56. @Alec Leamas (working from home)
    It's probably Rose's competitiveness which drove him to gamble, including on baseball. But I doubt he would have bet against a team he was playing for or managing.

    "Charlie Hustle" was the icon of all-out competitiveness before the legend of Michael Jordan surpassed Rose. Jordan was also known to be a profligate gambler. I have no evidence of this but it would not surprise me a single iota if Jordan wagered on the Bulls to win against the spread during his career through cut outs, but I doubt he would have bet against the Bulls or been tempted to shave points. It just seems like betting on himself would have amped up his motivation to win, similar to the way it is reported that he would imagine opposing players trash talking him to motivate himself.

    Rose's competitiveness and spirit is probably what kept him from doing what MLB wanted him to do in order to be welcomed back into the fold. But he did apologize so I don't know why we're still punishing him:

    https://peterose.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/rose-sorry.jpg

    Replies: @megabar, @Hibernian, @Dr. DoomNGloom, @Jim Christian

    It’s probably Rose’s competitiveness which drove him to gamble, including on baseball. But I doubt he would have bet against a team he was playing for or managing.

    If a player ordinarily bets on his own team, his bookie gains valuable intel when he doesn’t bet or doesn’t bet as much on them. This is one reason for the rule barring them from even associating with gamblers.

    • Agree: R.G. Camara
    • Replies: @Bostonvegas
    @Hibernian

    I have a little info on this.I used to work with some older guys from Ohio who booked alot of Roses bets.The sharps didnt care whether Rose bet or passed on the Reds what they were all waiting for was the day he bet the other side and kept an eye on him whenever he got deep in the hole .To Roses credit no matter how deep or desperate he got he never bet against the Reds.

  57. @Roger
    It is amazing that MLB could be so stupid as to alienate him from the game. They should have just settled the gambling accusations quietly, and allowed him to return. The NBA allowed Michael Jordan to return, and we still don't know exactly what he did.

    Replies: @Hibernian

    Same for Paul Hornung and Alex Karras. Of course that was a very long time ago.

  58. @Steve Sailer
    @R.G. Camara

    The famous 1951 New York Giants, with rookie Willie Mays, who won 44 of their last 51 games to edge the Brooklyn Dodgers on Bobby Thomson's homer, did it by stealing signs, much like the 2017 Astros.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara, @JR Ewing

    That was hidden for decades. When it came out, however, they should have had the victories revoked.

    Pro sports are all fixed/cheated these days. Better to watch pro wrestling, at least the fix is acknowledged and known.

    P.S. just learned that NFL jerk Bill Romanoski (usually voted dirtiest player of his time) not only was a steroid-abusing BALCO psycho, but also once deliberately ended a teammates career by attacking him in practice, ripping off his helmet, and caving in his eye socket, ending his career. The teammate—Marcus Williams—later won a judgment in court against him in court.

    https://infogalactic.com/info/Marcus_Williams_(tight_end)

    And yet Romanowski was still allowed to play in the league (after a mild suspension), and to this day, Romanowski is allowed to be associated with and participate in NFL events and be hired by teams. A sane league would have him banned for life.

    • Replies: @Feryl
    @R.G. Camara

    You do realize that barbaric behavior is regarded as a good thing for defensive players? Also, Romanowski started catching flack in the late 90's when sports culture was being cleaned up from the heinous excesses of the Boomer/early Gen X players of the 70's-early 90's (look up Mark Messier elbows on YouTube, or the "body bag game" between the Eagles and Redskins). Romo was only somewhat nastier than the NFL norm that existed before the 90's.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara

  59. Isn’t OJ Simpson in the football HOF?

    • Replies: @Liberty Mike
    @Trinity

    Yes, the Juice is in Canton.

    I'm just sayin'.

    Replies: @Trinity, @Curle

  60. @Alec Leamas (working from home)
    @megabar



    > But he did apologize so I don’t know why we’re still punishing him:
     
    An apology, by itself, is pretty meaningless. When people say “I regret my actions, but it’s time to move on,” they are usually trying to avoid consequences. If you actually regret your actions, you’re willing to accept the appropriate punishment.

    Now, if you just mean that you think that Rose’s punishment is too harsh, then ok. But my understanding is that baseball was very clear that betting was a permanent ban.
     
    The issue for me is that: 1) there never was any evidence whatsoever that Rose bet against the Reds - baseball makes no distinction but reasonable people do; and, 2) he was an integral part of three World Series Champion teams and holds the all time hits record ahead of Ty Cobb and Hank Aaron so the idea that he's not one of the greatest to ever play the game is ridiculous. Any Hall of Fame worth its name would include one of the greatest to ever play its game. At the time of the "ban" you could have prohibited any participation in Major League Baseball for life prospectively while also recognizing the sheer greatness of his career and not making a mockery of the Baseball Hall of Fame. It's not just a punishment for Rose which may be disproportionate, it's the make-believe aspect of pretending he doesn't exist.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Hibernian

    I can see both sides. I was glad, as a (10 year old) Packer fan that Hornung was reinstated. OTOH, as I and at least one other poster above have noted, there are real problems with a player, or coach, gambling, even if they don’t bet against their own team. I’d go for putting hin the HOF with an asterisk.

  61. @Bill Jones
    Once again Kunstler is worth a read.

    It should be pretty obvious that the FBI raid on Mar-a-Lago was an attempt to seize evidence likely to be used in former President Donald Trump’s civil lawsuit in the Southern Florida Federal District Court against Hillary Clinton and associated defendants in and out of government for the defamation and racketeering operation known as RussiaGate — AND in any future criminal proceedings that might grow out of congressional investigations-to-come against officials past and present in the DOJ and FBI. The idea is to tie up all those documents in a legal dispute about declassification so they can’t be entered in any proceeding.

    Over the weekend, independent journalist Paul Sperry reported that many of the same FBI officers involved in the Mar-a-Lago raid happen to be subjects of Special Counsel John Durham’s investigation into the origins of RussiaGate. Have some of them already been hauled into grand juries? We don’t know. But, with the Mar-a-Lago caper, it looks like the law enforcement apparatus of the federal government is seeking to suppress evidence of its own long-running criminal enterprise.
     
    https://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/a-different-sort-of-warrant/

    Replies: @J.Ross

    This is all Mueller was doing all that time was tying up evidence so it couldn’t be used against the Clinton-Obama mob.

  62. @Danindc
    @Reg Cæsar

    Interesting point but them’s the breaks. The Twins got lucky to be in a sh*tty division. My Maryland terrapins had some of the greatest college basketball teams of the 1970s but only one team went to the NCAA championship from the ACC. they were behind Duke North Carolina etc. The John Lucas team of 74 easily would’ve run the table if they did not lose to David Thompson’s legendary NC State team.

    Same with my Orioles. Always behind the Yankees in the mid 70s early 80s. Some of those teams easily where the second best in baseball. Maybe the best.

    actually the more I think about it, this is a screw job!!

    Replies: @Liberty Mike

    How about your ’73 Terps? That John Lucas, Len Elmore team got smoked by Ernie D. and Bad News Barnes in the regional final.

    • Replies: @Danindc
    @Liberty Mike

    That should’ve been Moses Malone’s freshman year w the Terrapins. We’d have won by 30.

  63. • Replies: @J.Ross
    @JohnnyWalker123

    So, what's with that aside about Trump?

  64. @Trinity
    Isn't OJ Simpson in the football HOF?

    Replies: @Liberty Mike

    Yes, the Juice is in Canton.

    I’m just sayin’.

    • Replies: @Trinity
    @Liberty Mike

    Unbelievable.

    , @Curle
    @Liberty Mike

    I’m sure if they processed that dna today they could distinguish OJ from his son.

  65. Breaking a major rule exposed him to possible blackmail by bookies or big bettors.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Ralph L

    This is an important point overlooked in Hillary-style whattaboutism ("but her emails"). Breaking major rules isn't just about the one rule, it totally changes your situation. The poolside scene in Romeo is Bleeding illustrates this succinctly, where Gary Oldman's bent cop attempts to dictate terms to Roy Scheider's criminal boss character. In an even larger view, one of the most baffling but central things about Democrats is their ad-hoc-for-everything worldview, where they want to buy gas from Russia at the same time that they make war against Russia, or this mysterious Iran deal which Iran itself seems bored with. China, Russia, and Iran do things according to an overall plan, and Americans are like caffeinated squirrels.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara

  66. @Reg Cæsar
    If you need "Pete Rose" transliterated to Arabic, Chinese, Greek, Japanese, Korean, Russian, here is the place to go:

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rosepe01.shtml#all_1957432667


    Sorry, no Hebrew.

    Was he the greatest player ever to don an Expos uniform? Anyway, he played 18+ seasons in his hometown. Who are the best who have done that? Lou Gehrig, for sure. Babe Ruth should have been one. The Orioles of his day were better than many of the major league teams.

    For what it's worth, Jeff Bronkey was the only major leaguer born in Afghanistan. Al Campanis was the only one born in Greece. The only two Chinese-born players, Harry Kingman and Austin Brice, appeared over a hundred years apart. However, Brice was born in Hong Kong in 1992, so that wasn't quite China yet.

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rosepe01.shtml#all_1957432667

    Replies: @FPD72, @Liberty Mike, @ScarletNumber

    Good ole Al lacked the necessaries to effectively convey to Ted Koppell what he had noticed all his life in baseball.

  67. @Liberty Mike
    @Trinity

    Yes, the Juice is in Canton.

    I'm just sayin'.

    Replies: @Trinity, @Curle

    Unbelievable.

  68. @Steve Sailer
    @Danindc

    Michael Jordan was likely suspended mid-career over his gambling addiction and the various low-lifes he associated with while gambling.

    Replies: @I, Libertine

    This be the last time I’ma type this out. Promise.

    To anyone who doesn’t think Jordan’s “retirement” was a suspension, consider the timeline:

    (1) NBA Commissioner David Stern announces an investigation into Chicago Bulls star Michael Jordan’s gambling. Preliminary indications seemed to be that he had lost millions.
    (2) The body of murder victim James Jordan, Michael’s father, is found and identified months after the crime. Curiously, the Jordan family had not even reported him missing for three weeks after his disappearance.
    (3) Michael announces that, to honor his late father’s wishes, he is retiring from basketball at age 29 to embark upon a career in professional baseball. He expresses the thought that, maybe someday, he will return to the NBA if Stern permits.
    (3) Stern announces that, owing to Jordan’s retirement, the gambling investigation is moot.
    (4) In one season at the Double – A minor league level, he compiles a slash line of .202/.290/.266.
    (5) One-and one-half basketball seasons later, Jordan announces his return to Bulls.
    (6) Stern announces that, owing to Jordan’s return, the gambling investigation is no longer moot and shall be resumed.
    (7) No one remarks upon, or even seems to notice, that (6) never happened.

    BTW, is Jordan in the Basketball Hall of Fame?

    • Agree: Ron Mexico
    • Thanks: Paul Jolliffe
    • Replies: @Ron Mexico
    @I, Libertine

    Add in that it was Jerry Reinsdorf, Bulls and White Sox owner, that gave Jordan the position on the White Sox minor league team. All well coordinated.

    , @R.G. Camara
    @I, Libertine

    It's sad, but if IIRC ESPN at that time didn't yet have rights to NBA games. (Yup, just checked, didn't get rights until the 2002). So ESPN in the 1990s could have done a yeoman's work in investigating this obviously fishy situation. Either they or SI (or the Sporting News, which was still around) could have won major awards doing so.

    or done the basebal steroid usage.

    Alas, ESPN focused on "bro-tastic" Sportscenter anchor teams. Made them oodles of money, but they're just court stenographers.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber

  69. @Liberty Mike
    @Danindc

    How about your '73 Terps? That John Lucas, Len Elmore team got smoked by Ernie D. and Bad News Barnes in the regional final.

    Replies: @Danindc

    That should’ve been Moses Malone’s freshman year w the Terrapins. We’d have won by 30.

  70. @FPD72
    @Reg Cæsar

    How about פיטר עלה? That’s the proper name “Peter” transliterated into Hebrew followed by the word for “rose.”

    Replies: @kaganovitch

    How about פיטר עלה? That’s the proper name “Peter” transliterated into Hebrew followed by the word for “rose.”

    Not even close. עלה is ‘leaf’, Rose is ורד.

    • Replies: @FPD72
    @kaganovitch

    You’re quite right. I could only find one example of “rose” in an English translation of the Hebrew Bible, which is in Song of Solomon 2:1. But the word translated “rose” there (חֲבַצֶּלֶת) is more often translated as other flowers, so I went with the word that was spit out by my phone’s translator, which is the closest thing I have to a modern Hebrew lexicon.

    Thanks for the correction.

  71. @Hibernian
    @Alec Leamas (working from home)


    It’s probably Rose’s competitiveness which drove him to gamble, including on baseball. But I doubt he would have bet against a team he was playing for or managing.
     
    If a player ordinarily bets on his own team, his bookie gains valuable intel when he doesn't bet or doesn't bet as much on them. This is one reason for the rule barring them from even associating with gamblers.

    Replies: @Bostonvegas

    I have a little info on this.I used to work with some older guys from Ohio who booked alot of Roses bets.The sharps didnt care whether Rose bet or passed on the Reds what they were all waiting for was the day he bet the other side and kept an eye on him whenever he got deep in the hole .To Roses credit no matter how deep or desperate he got he never bet against the Reds.

    • Agree: I, Libertine
  72. @AndrewR
    That's an amazing mane he had, especially at 39.

    I'm too young to remember his MLB career despite how long it lasted, so I had to read up on him. I don't really understand why it was so scandalous to bet on his own team. Where is the ethical problem there?

    Replies: @Danindc, @Feryl, @Jonathan Mason

    MLB is much tougher on gambling than the other leagues due to the 1919 Black Sox scandal (in the ensuing aftermath of that, the league ended up banning for life any Sox player who merely heard the negotiations between the crooked players and/or organized crime figures, if memory serves 8/9 of the starting line-up was banned including star player Joe Jackson who played well in the series).

    The NFL on the other hand is a joke. Look up Dan Moldea on YouTube for a rundown on how the league has habitually looked the other way at gambling. If memory serves the league only acknowledges that like two games (!) in league history were affected by players, coaches, or league officials gambling.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @Feryl


    memory serves the league only acknowledges that like two games (!) in league history were affected by players, coaches, or league officials gambling.
     
    The nature of point spread betting creates a lot of opportunity to cash in by, say, going for the field goal rather than the touch down when you are ahead. Or running out the clock rather than running up the score. Or punting rather than going for the first down. But these seem to be coaching decisions and thus coaches' opportunities to cheat.

    Given the number of players and their individual inability to control the score (with possible exception of QB), it's got to be much harder for the players themselves to cheat. A WR could plan on dropping passes but that will get you benched or cut in short order. So good luck with that scheme.

    Replies: @Danindc, @Feryl

    , @Ganderson
    @Feryl

    Way more than just the “Black Sox” were banned. The Black Sox Scandal was just the tip of the iceberg- gamblers (and gambling) were all over the place- in the clubhouses, the bars the players frequented… I recall that Willie Mays was not allowed to work as a greeter (was it in the 70’s? 80’s?) at a casino in, I think, Atlantic City. Now gambling concerns sponsor MLB.

    Oh, and the murder of Michael Jordan’s father is one of the most underreported spaortsball stories of the las 30 years.

  73. @R.G. Camara
    @Steve Sailer

    That was hidden for decades. When it came out, however, they should have had the victories revoked.

    Pro sports are all fixed/cheated these days. Better to watch pro wrestling, at least the fix is acknowledged and known.

    P.S. just learned that NFL jerk Bill Romanoski (usually voted dirtiest player of his time) not only was a steroid-abusing BALCO psycho, but also once deliberately ended a teammates career by attacking him in practice, ripping off his helmet, and caving in his eye socket, ending his career. The teammate---Marcus Williams---later won a judgment in court against him in court.

    https://infogalactic.com/info/Marcus_Williams_(tight_end)

    And yet Romanowski was still allowed to play in the league (after a mild suspension), and to this day, Romanowski is allowed to be associated with and participate in NFL events and be hired by teams. A sane league would have him banned for life.

    Replies: @Feryl

    You do realize that barbaric behavior is regarded as a good thing for defensive players? Also, Romanowski started catching flack in the late 90’s when sports culture was being cleaned up from the heinous excesses of the Boomer/early Gen X players of the 70’s-early 90’s (look up Mark Messier elbows on YouTube, or the “body bag game” between the Eagles and Redskins). Romo was only somewhat nastier than the NFL norm that existed before the 90’s.

    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
    @Feryl


    Romo was only somewhat nastier than the NFL norm that existed before the 90’s.
     
    And Castro killed fewer than Mao or Stalin. Big deal. Castro's still a horrid evil dude and people who pal around with him are evil.

    Also, perhaps you didn't bother to read: Romo physically ripped off Marcus's Williams' helmet and crushed his eye socket, ENDING his career. IN PRACTICE. WHILE THEY WERE TEAMMATES.

    That's beyond someone doing rough legal hits and talking trash.

    https://infogalactic.com/info/Marcus_Williams_(tight_end)

    Romo's actions were so egregious Williams won a lawsuit against him for ending his career. He would've won more, but couldn't prove Romo was on 'roids at the time--it was before Romo confessed his BALCO involvement and usage.

    The fact that Romo and murderers like Ray Lewis were not banned from the league for life tells you all you need to know about the NFL.

    Replies: @Feryl

  74. @Anon
    @MEH 0910

    Diving head first into bases is one of the most fun things in baseball. I loved doing it in Little League. I'm lucky I never got hurt though doing it.

    In Little League in the 90s, the coaches always told us that sliding head first was slower than sliding legs first, and so not to do it, but now I wonder if that was just an excuse for safety reasons. Because it never made sense to me that sliding head first would be slower when you're in a full sprint on the base path with a forward lean and all that momentum going anyway.

    We were also told by coaches in 90s Little League to swing down and level into the ball, rather than swing uppercut style like kids naturally will do. Turns out that was wrong advice based on what the pros do now.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @JR Ewing, @R.G. Camara, @The Anti-Gnostic, @Brutusale

    Headfirst slides are illegal in Little League now and a runner is automatically out if he does it.

    Note that this is only LL itself and only why attempting to advance. You can still dive back to the bag. Other youth leagues allow it at all times.

  75. @Ralph L
    Breaking a major rule exposed him to possible blackmail by bookies or big bettors.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    This is an important point overlooked in Hillary-style whattaboutism (“but her emails”). Breaking major rules isn’t just about the one rule, it totally changes your situation. The poolside scene in Romeo is Bleeding illustrates this succinctly, where Gary Oldman’s bent cop attempts to dictate terms to Roy Scheider’s criminal boss character. In an even larger view, one of the most baffling but central things about Democrats is their ad-hoc-for-everything worldview, where they want to buy gas from Russia at the same time that they make war against Russia, or this mysterious Iran deal which Iran itself seems bored with. China, Russia, and Iran do things according to an overall plan, and Americans are like caffeinated squirrels.

    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
    @J.Ross

    Let's be clear though: blackmailing the Clintons is never a good idea.

    I'm sure there's a lot of wormfood out there that once thought it was a good idea.

    Replies: @Nicholas Stix

  76. @Reg Cæsar

    One out later, the Phillies were World Champs.
     
    No, they weren't. They were World Series champs. You don't get to announce yourself as world champions without issuing a challenge. Never mind Japan; don't trust any claim that leaves out Cuba and the Dominican Republic.

    In the 1980s and 1990s, the Seibu Lions were Japan's equivalent of the 1920s or 1950s New York Yankees. They won 13 league titles in a 17-year stretch, and six Japan Series in a seven-year period.

    One of those came in 1987, the year the pathetic, literally mediocre Minnesota Twins announced their own "world championship". The only reason they had a postseason at all was because the "division" boundary was slanted. Milwaukee is about 15 miles farther west than is Chicago. The Brewers were one of four teams in the East with a better record than the Twins.

    They were by a hair the only team in their division with a winning record, and clinched a week before the end of the regular season. After which they went on vacation/strike, losing their final seven games, getting a good rest for the undeserved postseason. There is something deeply unethical about that.

    Meanwhile, Detroit and Toronto were engaged in one of the fiercest pennant fights of the century, both closing in on 100 wins. The results of that effort were thrown in the trash. There is something deeply unethical about that.

    I'll sit back now and wait for Scarlet Commenter to label me a Troll. The first season I followed was the 1967 American League race, so I was spoiled, evidently. But real pennant races were fun, and that was the second-to-last.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Ron Mexico, @Danindc, @Feryl, @Paul Jolliffe

    What about the rumors that the Metrodome’s airflow was altered to flow against the opposing offense and then reversed to assist the home offense?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Feryl


    What about the rumors that the Metrodome’s airflow was altered to flow against the opposing offense and then reversed to assist the home offense?
     
    Hell, the noise alone was a scandal. Baseball is supposed to be pastoral, not industrial.

    Replies: @Ganderson

  77. @JR Ewing
    I came into awareness of professional baseball - i.e. my preteen years - right at the tail end of Pete Rose's playing career. The whole gambling and suspension thing happened when I was in high school and then he was more or less gone and out of the public eye for 20 years after that.

    My dad and father in law and other older baseball fans I know would - and still do - speak of him in reverential terms. When I see clips like this, I can see why.

    Replies: @middle-aged vet

    Never liked baseball idolatry of guys in their 20s, most of whom had never worked a day in their lives.

    Sure he was good at a game, but lots of creeps like him are good at games.

    I feel bad for people who do not know how disgusted they would be if one of their sons turned out to be “like Pete Rose”.

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    @middle-aged vet

    There are lots of men who cheat on their taxes, gamble and tomcat around. Lots of them go into politics or high finance and ruin millions of peoples' lives. Pete was at least mission-focused and just played MLB. If the really big deal in the 1970s would have been to go on Crusade and slaughter the infidels who would destroy Western civilization in the 00's, he might have been quite good at it.

    I had a much-esteemed family member who was really expert at only one thing: amateur rugby. One does what one can.

  78. @JohnnyWalker123
    https://twitter.com/AndrewChamings/status/1556736028093779968

    Replies: @J.Ross

    So, what’s with that aside about Trump?

  79. @Feryl
    @R.G. Camara

    You do realize that barbaric behavior is regarded as a good thing for defensive players? Also, Romanowski started catching flack in the late 90's when sports culture was being cleaned up from the heinous excesses of the Boomer/early Gen X players of the 70's-early 90's (look up Mark Messier elbows on YouTube, or the "body bag game" between the Eagles and Redskins). Romo was only somewhat nastier than the NFL norm that existed before the 90's.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara

    Romo was only somewhat nastier than the NFL norm that existed before the 90’s.

    And Castro killed fewer than Mao or Stalin. Big deal. Castro’s still a horrid evil dude and people who pal around with him are evil.

    Also, perhaps you didn’t bother to read: Romo physically ripped off Marcus’s Williams’ helmet and crushed his eye socket, ENDING his career. IN PRACTICE. WHILE THEY WERE TEAMMATES.

    That’s beyond someone doing rough legal hits and talking trash.

    https://infogalactic.com/info/Marcus_Williams_(tight_end)

    Romo’s actions were so egregious Williams won a lawsuit against him for ending his career. He would’ve won more, but couldn’t prove Romo was on ‘roids at the time–it was before Romo confessed his BALCO involvement and usage.

    The fact that Romo and murderers like Ray Lewis were not banned from the league for life tells you all you need to know about the NFL.

    • Replies: @Feryl
    @R.G. Camara

    There was a minor scandal in the 90's when a hazing ritual (think of the "soap party" in Full Metal Jacket) at a Saints training camp went off the rails and they ended up mangling some poor kid. Football culture is not for the faint of heart.

    Replies: @Nicholas Stix

  80. @AndrewR
    That's an amazing mane he had, especially at 39.

    I'm too young to remember his MLB career despite how long it lasted, so I had to read up on him. I don't really understand why it was so scandalous to bet on his own team. Where is the ethical problem there?

    Replies: @Danindc, @Feryl, @Jonathan Mason

    I don’t really understand why it was so scandalous to bet on his own team. Where is the ethical problem there?

    It is only a short step from there to bribing the opponents to lose, and then having the opponents betting on your team to win.

    Gives a new meaning to the notion of win-win.

  81. @Steve Sailer
    @R.G. Camara

    The famous 1951 New York Giants, with rookie Willie Mays, who won 44 of their last 51 games to edge the Brooklyn Dodgers on Bobby Thomson's homer, did it by stealing signs, much like the 2017 Astros.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara, @JR Ewing

    All MLB teams attempt to steal signs and all are somewhat successful at it, at least in the short term.

    Alex Cora was a bench coach for the team that year and was the mastermind of the Astros scheme. He left to go manage the Red Sox the very next year and did the same thing and got caught there, too.

    The reason the Astros got so much attention that year was sour grapes from the two largest media markets (Yankees and Dodgers) who both got beat along the way during the postseason.

    Mike Fiers is a sorry snitch.

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
    @JR Ewing

    Cora is in last place in the AL East with a (MLB-wide) top 3 or 4 payroll, and it ain't gonna get any better given the pieces they gave away last week. Chaim Bloom, their GM, who engineered world series teams in Tampa on 60 million dollar payrolls has experienced a downfall as well as Cora. The Boston press, as tough as that in Philly, is calling for both their heads. Expect both to be outta here at season's end.

  82. @Steve Sailer
    @Alec Leamas (working from home)

    Ted Williams' view was that Shoeless Joe Jackson was banned from baseball for life, so he should be posthumously admitted to the Hall of Fame.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Ted Williams’ view was that Shoeless Joe Jackson was banned from baseball for life, so he should be posthumously admitted to the Hall of Fame.

    If Rose takes Williams’s cryonic route, would the ban be reinstated upon his return to life?

  83. @Anon
    @MEH 0910

    Diving head first into bases is one of the most fun things in baseball. I loved doing it in Little League. I'm lucky I never got hurt though doing it.

    In Little League in the 90s, the coaches always told us that sliding head first was slower than sliding legs first, and so not to do it, but now I wonder if that was just an excuse for safety reasons. Because it never made sense to me that sliding head first would be slower when you're in a full sprint on the base path with a forward lean and all that momentum going anyway.

    We were also told by coaches in 90s Little League to swing down and level into the ball, rather than swing uppercut style like kids naturally will do. Turns out that was wrong advice based on what the pros do now.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @JR Ewing, @R.G. Camara, @The Anti-Gnostic, @Brutusale

    We were also told by coaches in 90s Little League to swing down and level into the ball, rather than swing uppercut style like kids naturally will do

    “Down” and “level” are not the same thing. Swinging down gets you grounders, level supposedly leads to line drives. We were taught level, not down.

    Most little kids want to whack dingers, so swing wildly for the fences every time. Coaching them away from that and trying for higher-percentage hits are what that coaching is about.

  84. @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    The error rate on ground balls is so high in Little League it probably makes short term sense to just try to hit ground balls.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara

    Kids want to hit homeruns. Coaches are leading them away from that. Sometimes to over correction.

  85. @Feryl
    @Reg Cæsar

    What about the rumors that the Metrodome's airflow was altered to flow against the opposing offense and then reversed to assist the home offense?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    What about the rumors that the Metrodome’s airflow was altered to flow against the opposing offense and then reversed to assist the home offense?

    Hell, the noise alone was a scandal. Baseball is supposed to be pastoral, not industrial.

    • Replies: @Ganderson
    @Reg Cæsar

    First time I walked into the Dome I had an overwhelming feeling of disgust. Especially considering the quite nice baseball park it replaced.

    I was pretty happy in ‘87 and ‘91, though.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber

  86. @I, Libertine
    @Steve Sailer

    This be the last time I'ma type this out. Promise.

    To anyone who doesn't think Jordan's "retirement" was a suspension, consider the timeline:

    (1) NBA Commissioner David Stern announces an investigation into Chicago Bulls star Michael Jordan's gambling. Preliminary indications seemed to be that he had lost millions.
    (2) The body of murder victim James Jordan, Michael's father, is found and identified months after the crime. Curiously, the Jordan family had not even reported him missing for three weeks after his disappearance.
    (3) Michael announces that, to honor his late father's wishes, he is retiring from basketball at age 29 to embark upon a career in professional baseball. He expresses the thought that, maybe someday, he will return to the NBA if Stern permits.
    (3) Stern announces that, owing to Jordan's retirement, the gambling investigation is moot.
    (4) In one season at the Double - A minor league level, he compiles a slash line of .202/.290/.266.
    (5) One-and one-half basketball seasons later, Jordan announces his return to Bulls.
    (6) Stern announces that, owing to Jordan's return, the gambling investigation is no longer moot and shall be resumed.
    (7) No one remarks upon, or even seems to notice, that (6) never happened.

    BTW, is Jordan in the Basketball Hall of Fame?

    Replies: @Ron Mexico, @R.G. Camara

    Add in that it was Jerry Reinsdorf, Bulls and White Sox owner, that gave Jordan the position on the White Sox minor league team. All well coordinated.

    • Agree: I, Libertine
  87. Anon[126] • Disclaimer says:

    OT: Over at Occidental Dissent, Hunter Wallace has gone full Jesus freak. He’s been writing a series of posts about how he went to Unite the Right and was shocked, shocked that it wasn’t a religious revival and none of the people there were interested in Jesus. He’s been talking a big man’s talk about the importance of “character” which he seems to think begins and ends with believing a bunch of medieval religious baloney. I give him four years before he’s embracing “Christian” multiculturalism and making ads for the Lincoln project.

    https://occidentaldissent.com/

  88. @Liberty Mike
    @Trinity

    Yes, the Juice is in Canton.

    I'm just sayin'.

    Replies: @Trinity, @Curle

    I’m sure if they processed that dna today they could distinguish OJ from his son.

  89. @middle-aged vet
    @JR Ewing

    Never liked baseball idolatry of guys in their 20s, most of whom had never worked a day in their lives.

    Sure he was good at a game, but lots of creeps like him are good at games.

    I feel bad for people who do not know how disgusted they would be if one of their sons turned out to be "like Pete Rose".

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic

    There are lots of men who cheat on their taxes, gamble and tomcat around. Lots of them go into politics or high finance and ruin millions of peoples’ lives. Pete was at least mission-focused and just played MLB. If the really big deal in the 1970s would have been to go on Crusade and slaughter the infidels who would destroy Western civilization in the 00’s, he might have been quite good at it.

    I had a much-esteemed family member who was really expert at only one thing: amateur rugby. One does what one can.

  90. A couple of OT points that really could use some attention.

    1. Anne Heche was just medically murdered for her internal organs. DO NOT sign up to be an organ doner, and make sure your family knows your intentions. These people are straight-up ghouls.

    2. The Minneapolis teacher’s Union, per contract, will lay off white teachers before colored teachers with less seniority. This kind of garbage is getting serious and it needs to be exposed and stopped. This has the makings of a Supreme Court case that will end Affirmative Action, but in the meantime lives will be ruined and local battles must still be fought.

  91. @Anon
    @MEH 0910

    Diving head first into bases is one of the most fun things in baseball. I loved doing it in Little League. I'm lucky I never got hurt though doing it.

    In Little League in the 90s, the coaches always told us that sliding head first was slower than sliding legs first, and so not to do it, but now I wonder if that was just an excuse for safety reasons. Because it never made sense to me that sliding head first would be slower when you're in a full sprint on the base path with a forward lean and all that momentum going anyway.

    We were also told by coaches in 90s Little League to swing down and level into the ball, rather than swing uppercut style like kids naturally will do. Turns out that was wrong advice based on what the pros do now.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @JR Ewing, @R.G. Camara, @The Anti-Gnostic, @Brutusale

    I was myopic so my baseball hopes crashed and burned early, but forward dives were of course what one did in football and rugby. You have to land at a very specific angle of attack to keep your forward momentum going when you head in feet-first.

  92. @J.Ross
    @Ralph L

    This is an important point overlooked in Hillary-style whattaboutism ("but her emails"). Breaking major rules isn't just about the one rule, it totally changes your situation. The poolside scene in Romeo is Bleeding illustrates this succinctly, where Gary Oldman's bent cop attempts to dictate terms to Roy Scheider's criminal boss character. In an even larger view, one of the most baffling but central things about Democrats is their ad-hoc-for-everything worldview, where they want to buy gas from Russia at the same time that they make war against Russia, or this mysterious Iran deal which Iran itself seems bored with. China, Russia, and Iran do things according to an overall plan, and Americans are like caffeinated squirrels.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara

    Let’s be clear though: blackmailing the Clintons is never a good idea.

    I’m sure there’s a lot of wormfood out there that once thought it was a good idea.

    • Replies: @Nicholas Stix
    @R.G. Camara

    One of my favorite pictures was about a WWII combat vet, “Lucky” Gagin, who just got “demobbed,” who foolishly thinks he’s going to blackmail a mobster who has already murdered Lucky’s best friend from the war, who had tried the same gambit. Note that in the original novel, the killer was a U.S. Senator.

    Ride the Pink Horse (1947): Robert Montgomery Stars in, and Directs a Classic Film Noir, with a Ben Hecht-Charles Lederer Script, about a Disillusioned World War II Veteran”

    https://nicholasstixuncensored.blogspot.com/2020/03/ride-pink-horse-1947.html

  93. @I, Libertine
    @Steve Sailer

    This be the last time I'ma type this out. Promise.

    To anyone who doesn't think Jordan's "retirement" was a suspension, consider the timeline:

    (1) NBA Commissioner David Stern announces an investigation into Chicago Bulls star Michael Jordan's gambling. Preliminary indications seemed to be that he had lost millions.
    (2) The body of murder victim James Jordan, Michael's father, is found and identified months after the crime. Curiously, the Jordan family had not even reported him missing for three weeks after his disappearance.
    (3) Michael announces that, to honor his late father's wishes, he is retiring from basketball at age 29 to embark upon a career in professional baseball. He expresses the thought that, maybe someday, he will return to the NBA if Stern permits.
    (3) Stern announces that, owing to Jordan's retirement, the gambling investigation is moot.
    (4) In one season at the Double - A minor league level, he compiles a slash line of .202/.290/.266.
    (5) One-and one-half basketball seasons later, Jordan announces his return to Bulls.
    (6) Stern announces that, owing to Jordan's return, the gambling investigation is no longer moot and shall be resumed.
    (7) No one remarks upon, or even seems to notice, that (6) never happened.

    BTW, is Jordan in the Basketball Hall of Fame?

    Replies: @Ron Mexico, @R.G. Camara

    It’s sad, but if IIRC ESPN at that time didn’t yet have rights to NBA games. (Yup, just checked, didn’t get rights until the 2002). So ESPN in the 1990s could have done a yeoman’s work in investigating this obviously fishy situation. Either they or SI (or the Sporting News, which was still around) could have won major awards doing so.

    or done the basebal steroid usage.

    Alas, ESPN focused on “bro-tastic” Sportscenter anchor teams. Made them oodles of money, but they’re just court stenographers.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    @R.G. Camara

    By coincidence, 2002 was also the year that Tim Donaghy claims the NBA fixed the Western Conference finals so that the Los Angeles Lakers would advance at the expense of the superior Sacramento Kings. This was the last time the conference finals primarily aired on network television, with NBC carrying 11 out of 13 games. The next year ESPN would keep their conference's games on ESPN for the most part, only moving one to ABC.

    I remember when ESPN got the package, they put on a big ad campaign with Brad Nessler as the leader of the new announcing crew, with Bill Walton and Tom Tolbert doing color. Nessler was awful and was replaced after a year. ESPN forced Al Michaels to take his place with Doc Rivers doing color. Al was NOT happy about this. When ABC lost Monday Night Football, they traded Al to NBC for Oswald the Lucky Rabbit. Mike Breen has been working the NBA Finals since.

    Replies: @Nicholas Stix

  94. Because of this:

  95. @R.G. Camara
    @J.Ross

    Let's be clear though: blackmailing the Clintons is never a good idea.

    I'm sure there's a lot of wormfood out there that once thought it was a good idea.

    Replies: @Nicholas Stix

    One of my favorite pictures was about a WWII combat vet, “Lucky” Gagin, who just got “demobbed,” who foolishly thinks he’s going to blackmail a mobster who has already murdered Lucky’s best friend from the war, who had tried the same gambit. Note that in the original novel, the killer was a U.S. Senator.

    Ride the Pink Horse (1947): Robert Montgomery Stars in, and Directs a Classic Film Noir, with a Ben Hecht-Charles Lederer Script, about a Disillusioned World War II Veteran”

    https://nicholasstixuncensored.blogspot.com/2020/03/ride-pink-horse-1947.html

    • Thanks: David In TN
  96. @Reg Cæsar
    If you need "Pete Rose" transliterated to Arabic, Chinese, Greek, Japanese, Korean, Russian, here is the place to go:

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rosepe01.shtml#all_1957432667


    Sorry, no Hebrew.

    Was he the greatest player ever to don an Expos uniform? Anyway, he played 18+ seasons in his hometown. Who are the best who have done that? Lou Gehrig, for sure. Babe Ruth should have been one. The Orioles of his day were better than many of the major league teams.

    For what it's worth, Jeff Bronkey was the only major leaguer born in Afghanistan. Al Campanis was the only one born in Greece. The only two Chinese-born players, Harry Kingman and Austin Brice, appeared over a hundred years apart. However, Brice was born in Hong Kong in 1992, so that wasn't quite China yet.

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rosepe01.shtml#all_1957432667

    Replies: @FPD72, @Liberty Mike, @ScarletNumber

    Was he the greatest player ever to don an Expos uniform?

    In terms of production as an Expo, definitely not. I would say it was Gary Carter. To answer your question literally Pete was probably the greatest position player to don the uniform, although I’m partial to Rusty Staub. If you are including pitchers it is tough to ignore Randy Johnson and Pedro.

    Anyway, he played 18+ seasons in his hometown. Who are the best who have done that?

    As the crow flies, Bridgehampton High School is only 115 miles from Fenway Park while it is 85 miles from Yankee Stadium. That’s how close Yaz came.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @ScarletNumber

    I would say it was Gary Carter.

    One could make a case for Raines, maybe even Larry Walker, though Colorado stats are always suspect. Maybe even Dawson.

  97. Anon[313] • Disclaimer says:
    @R.G. Camara
    Rose was a cheat, and rightfully banned from the HOF and baseball.

    Unlike the steroid abusers like Bonds, McGwire, Alex Cora, or the players on the Houston Astros team that cheated to win the world series. All allowed back into baseball.

    One of the largest reasons I stopped watching baseball.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anon

    Or the Red Sox with their Apple Watch sign stealing machine in 2017, which was imitated by the Yankees. Swept under the carpet.

    http://www.espn.com/espn/wire/_/section/mlb/id/20594369

    Or the WS winning Red Sox in 2018, investigated for cheating (“for the third time in five years”), namely sign stealing, but it turned out the buck stopped at a video operator who apparently suborned the whole team. It may seem odd but it happens in Boston every now and then, see the Boston Globe article below. And it wasn’t like so bad anyway. Nothing to see here. Report released right before the NFL season started.

    https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/04/22/sports/this-wasnt-huge-scandal-red-sox-it-wasnt-nothing-either/

    https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2020/4/22/21231932/rob-manfred-boston-red-sox-mlb-report-sign-stealing-scandal

    This year, MLB has introduced some sort of gadget for communicating with the pitcher. It seems the problem still persists.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @Anon

    Early in my career, I had a mentor who claimed that Bob Cousy used to shave points while playing for the immortal Celtics teams of the championship era. He said that Cousy's 4th quarter shooting percentage was way lower on a consistent basis.

    It brings home the point that the team can still win the game while the opponent still covers the spread, a true win-win for the crooked athlete on a good team.

    Replies: @Ron Mexico

  98. @R.G. Camara
    @I, Libertine

    It's sad, but if IIRC ESPN at that time didn't yet have rights to NBA games. (Yup, just checked, didn't get rights until the 2002). So ESPN in the 1990s could have done a yeoman's work in investigating this obviously fishy situation. Either they or SI (or the Sporting News, which was still around) could have won major awards doing so.

    or done the basebal steroid usage.

    Alas, ESPN focused on "bro-tastic" Sportscenter anchor teams. Made them oodles of money, but they're just court stenographers.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber

    By coincidence, 2002 was also the year that Tim Donaghy claims the NBA fixed the Western Conference finals so that the Los Angeles Lakers would advance at the expense of the superior Sacramento Kings. This was the last time the conference finals primarily aired on network television, with NBC carrying 11 out of 13 games. The next year ESPN would keep their conference’s games on ESPN for the most part, only moving one to ABC.

    I remember when ESPN got the package, they put on a big ad campaign with Brad Nessler as the leader of the new announcing crew, with Bill Walton and Tom Tolbert doing color. Nessler was awful and was replaced after a year. ESPN forced Al Michaels to take his place with Doc Rivers doing color. Al was NOT happy about this. When ABC lost Monday Night Football, they traded Al to NBC for Oswald the Lucky Rabbit. Mike Breen has been working the NBA Finals since.

    • Replies: @Nicholas Stix
    @ScarletNumber


    "ESPN forced Al Michaels to take his place with Doc Rivers doing color. Al was NOT happy about this."
     
    Was Rivers the problem?

    Replies: @ScarletNumber

  99. @Joe Stalin
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO8qJukZJg4

    Replies: @Nicholas Stix, @G. Poulin

    “Minor criminal infractions”?! Minor criminal infractions wouldn’t keep anyone out of the service today. He’s talking about felons.

    The guy is a pc wimp. He shows images of exclusively non-White females in uniform, which he clearly approves of. So, he’s pro-homosexualization, pro-affirmative action, and surely pro-sexual psychopath. It doesn’t occur to him that promoting such groups is hurting recruitment of fit fighting men.

  100. @ScarletNumber
    @R.G. Camara

    By coincidence, 2002 was also the year that Tim Donaghy claims the NBA fixed the Western Conference finals so that the Los Angeles Lakers would advance at the expense of the superior Sacramento Kings. This was the last time the conference finals primarily aired on network television, with NBC carrying 11 out of 13 games. The next year ESPN would keep their conference's games on ESPN for the most part, only moving one to ABC.

    I remember when ESPN got the package, they put on a big ad campaign with Brad Nessler as the leader of the new announcing crew, with Bill Walton and Tom Tolbert doing color. Nessler was awful and was replaced after a year. ESPN forced Al Michaels to take his place with Doc Rivers doing color. Al was NOT happy about this. When ABC lost Monday Night Football, they traded Al to NBC for Oswald the Lucky Rabbit. Mike Breen has been working the NBA Finals since.

    Replies: @Nicholas Stix

    “ESPN forced Al Michaels to take his place with Doc Rivers doing color. Al was NOT happy about this.”

    Was Rivers the problem?

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    @Nicholas Stix

    No, Al was very set in his career and just didn't want to work basketball any more. They only broke up this pairing because Doc had gotten hired to coach the Boston Celtics.

    Sorry for being unclear.

  101. @Feryl
    @AndrewR

    MLB is much tougher on gambling than the other leagues due to the 1919 Black Sox scandal (in the ensuing aftermath of that, the league ended up banning for life any Sox player who merely heard the negotiations between the crooked players and/or organized crime figures, if memory serves 8/9 of the starting line-up was banned including star player Joe Jackson who played well in the series).

    The NFL on the other hand is a joke. Look up Dan Moldea on YouTube for a rundown on how the league has habitually looked the other way at gambling. If memory serves the league only acknowledges that like two games (!) in league history were affected by players, coaches, or league officials gambling.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @Ganderson

    memory serves the league only acknowledges that like two games (!) in league history were affected by players, coaches, or league officials gambling.

    The nature of point spread betting creates a lot of opportunity to cash in by, say, going for the field goal rather than the touch down when you are ahead. Or running out the clock rather than running up the score. Or punting rather than going for the first down. But these seem to be coaching decisions and thus coaches’ opportunities to cheat.

    Given the number of players and their individual inability to control the score (with possible exception of QB), it’s got to be much harder for the players themselves to cheat. A WR could plan on dropping passes but that will get you benched or cut in short order. So good luck with that scheme.

    • Replies: @Danindc
    @Hypnotoad666

    Ronnie Harmon managed it in the Rose Bowl.

    , @Feryl
    @Hypnotoad666

    It's very easy for players to shave points and such. After all, a dropped pass, fumble, errant pass etc. can be written off as a momentary lapse in concentration. Also, as I recall from the player gambling stuff I looked into, the QB and RB are the players you want to get to since they so frequently touch the ball and therefore can have plausible deniability about occasional "mistakes" that have a large impact on their teams performance.

    Oh, and did you ever notice how often Brett Farve would throw momentous interceptions, or how often Adrian Peterson fumbled the ball when his team had a chance to put a game away? Makes you wonder, huh? And gee, why do some running backs in general go through a (sometimes years long) phase of not being able to avoid fumbling?

    As paranoid as this sounds, when you realize just how corrupting gambling is (as it exposes people to scuzzbags who can manipulate and blackmail you), yet the leagues do so little to combat it, you might then start to be skeptical. About everything. Maybe Leon Lett slowing down to let Don Beebe swat the ball out was more than just clowning. What about Jim Marshall's wrong way run? How come NFL defenses have late game rubber band AI, where these "finely conditioned" athletes suddenly can't tackle a tortoise?

    Lastly, the courts have ruled that sports are entertainment, not an activity or entity subject to ethical regulation WRT honest competition. In fact, fans cannot sue for a game held under a false pretense of fair competition. Thus "real sports" are in fact under no more obligation to provide an honest contest than pro wrestling.

    Replies: @Jim Christian

  102. @Hypnotoad666
    @Feryl


    memory serves the league only acknowledges that like two games (!) in league history were affected by players, coaches, or league officials gambling.
     
    The nature of point spread betting creates a lot of opportunity to cash in by, say, going for the field goal rather than the touch down when you are ahead. Or running out the clock rather than running up the score. Or punting rather than going for the first down. But these seem to be coaching decisions and thus coaches' opportunities to cheat.

    Given the number of players and their individual inability to control the score (with possible exception of QB), it's got to be much harder for the players themselves to cheat. A WR could plan on dropping passes but that will get you benched or cut in short order. So good luck with that scheme.

    Replies: @Danindc, @Feryl

    Ronnie Harmon managed it in the Rose Bowl.

  103. @Joe Stalin
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO8qJukZJg4

    Replies: @Nicholas Stix, @G. Poulin

    We shouldn’t have a standing national army in the first place. It’s one of the reasons the central government can get away with treating Americans as serfs. Having trouble recruiting? Good. F’em.

  104. @Anon
    @MEH 0910

    Diving head first into bases is one of the most fun things in baseball. I loved doing it in Little League. I'm lucky I never got hurt though doing it.

    In Little League in the 90s, the coaches always told us that sliding head first was slower than sliding legs first, and so not to do it, but now I wonder if that was just an excuse for safety reasons. Because it never made sense to me that sliding head first would be slower when you're in a full sprint on the base path with a forward lean and all that momentum going anyway.

    We were also told by coaches in 90s Little League to swing down and level into the ball, rather than swing uppercut style like kids naturally will do. Turns out that was wrong advice based on what the pros do now.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @JR Ewing, @R.G. Camara, @The Anti-Gnostic, @Brutusale

    Pop-up slide. Easier to advance on a blown defensive play, which are legion in Little League.

  105. @Anon
    @R.G. Camara

    Or the Red Sox with their Apple Watch sign stealing machine in 2017, which was imitated by the Yankees. Swept under the carpet.

    http://www.espn.com/espn/wire/_/section/mlb/id/20594369

    Or the WS winning Red Sox in 2018, investigated for cheating ("for the third time in five years"), namely sign stealing, but it turned out the buck stopped at a video operator who apparently suborned the whole team. It may seem odd but it happens in Boston every now and then, see the Boston Globe article below. And it wasn't like so bad anyway. Nothing to see here. Report released right before the NFL season started.

    https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/04/22/sports/this-wasnt-huge-scandal-red-sox-it-wasnt-nothing-either/

    https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2020/4/22/21231932/rob-manfred-boston-red-sox-mlb-report-sign-stealing-scandal

    This year, MLB has introduced some sort of gadget for communicating with the pitcher. It seems the problem still persists.

    Replies: @Brutusale

    Early in my career, I had a mentor who claimed that Bob Cousy used to shave points while playing for the immortal Celtics teams of the championship era. He said that Cousy’s 4th quarter shooting percentage was way lower on a consistent basis.

    It brings home the point that the team can still win the game while the opponent still covers the spread, a true win-win for the crooked athlete on a good team.

    • Replies: @Ron Mexico
    @Brutusale

    That would be ironic given that Cousy played the AD for faux UCLA in Blue Chips in which point shaving / dirty money in college sports was one of the themes.

  106. @Alec Leamas (working from home)
    It's probably Rose's competitiveness which drove him to gamble, including on baseball. But I doubt he would have bet against a team he was playing for or managing.

    "Charlie Hustle" was the icon of all-out competitiveness before the legend of Michael Jordan surpassed Rose. Jordan was also known to be a profligate gambler. I have no evidence of this but it would not surprise me a single iota if Jordan wagered on the Bulls to win against the spread during his career through cut outs, but I doubt he would have bet against the Bulls or been tempted to shave points. It just seems like betting on himself would have amped up his motivation to win, similar to the way it is reported that he would imagine opposing players trash talking him to motivate himself.

    Rose's competitiveness and spirit is probably what kept him from doing what MLB wanted him to do in order to be welcomed back into the fold. But he did apologize so I don't know why we're still punishing him:

    https://peterose.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/rose-sorry.jpg

    Replies: @megabar, @Hibernian, @Dr. DoomNGloom, @Jim Christian

    But I doubt he would have bet against a team he was playing for or managing.

    Though not as bad, any betting on a game he was involved with would be a problem (depending on the bet). He would, for example, be incentivized to run up the score or leave in a better pitcher to keep the score from getting out of hand.

    In contrast, Earl Weaver consistently beat the so-called Pythagorean projection. He didn’t do this by winning more than he should, but by throwing the mop-up men into a bad game and allowing the losses to become more lop-sided. That is, he wouldn’t waste resources for a low probability comeback at the risk of not having a fresh arm in a competitive game.

    For years, I advocated pulling the goalie in ice hockey earlier and spoke to a NHL head coach about it. Nonetheless, it didn’t become a thing until Patrick Roy did it. Ironically, it’s part of why gamblers don’t like hockey goal spreads anymore.

    So while betting on oneself isn’t in the same category as betting against, or point shaving, it does affect the integrity of the game.

    • Replies: @I, Libertine
    @Dr. DoomNGloom

    No doubt it had happened before, but the first time I heard of using position players to finish games that had become hopeless blowouts was when Earl Weaver did it in the seventies.

    While I'm thinking of it, how did it come to be that it's considered to be a point in a managers favor that his team beats its so-called Pythagorean projection? Is it really to the skipper's credit that his team wins more games than its runs-scored to runs-surrendered ratio would predict? I thought being a manager involved making moves that maximize your team's scoring, and minimize that of your adversaries.

    A poor "Pythagorean" ratio is hardly evidence that a manger has succeeded at that. I'd say that he's just lucky, and/or he makes frequent use of the Earl Weaver method.

  107. @Feryl
    @AndrewR

    MLB is much tougher on gambling than the other leagues due to the 1919 Black Sox scandal (in the ensuing aftermath of that, the league ended up banning for life any Sox player who merely heard the negotiations between the crooked players and/or organized crime figures, if memory serves 8/9 of the starting line-up was banned including star player Joe Jackson who played well in the series).

    The NFL on the other hand is a joke. Look up Dan Moldea on YouTube for a rundown on how the league has habitually looked the other way at gambling. If memory serves the league only acknowledges that like two games (!) in league history were affected by players, coaches, or league officials gambling.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @Ganderson

    Way more than just the “Black Sox” were banned. The Black Sox Scandal was just the tip of the iceberg- gamblers (and gambling) were all over the place- in the clubhouses, the bars the players frequented… I recall that Willie Mays was not allowed to work as a greeter (was it in the 70’s? 80’s?) at a casino in, I think, Atlantic City. Now gambling concerns sponsor MLB.

    Oh, and the murder of Michael Jordan’s father is one of the most underreported spaortsball stories of the las 30 years.

  108. I saw Rose, in the process of being intentionally walked, jump over the plate to hit an inside-the-park homer. After rounding the bases he was called out for violating the plate.

    The man had it in for Charlie Hustle from early on.

  109. @kaganovitch
    @FPD72

    How about פיטר עלה? That’s the proper name “Peter” transliterated into Hebrew followed by the word for “rose.”

    Not even close. עלה is 'leaf', Rose is ורד.

    Replies: @FPD72

    You’re quite right. I could only find one example of “rose” in an English translation of the Hebrew Bible, which is in Song of Solomon 2:1. But the word translated “rose” there (חֲבַצֶּלֶת) is more often translated as other flowers, so I went with the word that was spit out by my phone’s translator, which is the closest thing I have to a modern Hebrew lexicon.

    Thanks for the correction.

  110. @Reg Cæsar
    @Feryl


    What about the rumors that the Metrodome’s airflow was altered to flow against the opposing offense and then reversed to assist the home offense?
     
    Hell, the noise alone was a scandal. Baseball is supposed to be pastoral, not industrial.

    Replies: @Ganderson

    First time I walked into the Dome I had an overwhelming feeling of disgust. Especially considering the quite nice baseball park it replaced.

    I was pretty happy in ‘87 and ‘91, though.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    @Ganderson


    Especially considering the quite nice baseball park it replaced.
     
    Maybe you don't feel this way because it was YOUR dump, but wasn't the Met a dump?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Ganderson

  111. Does your dog gamble?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @TWS

    If all the other dogs gambled, she would.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

  112. @TWS
    Does your dog gamble?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    If all the other dogs gambled, she would.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @Steve Sailer

    Perhaps it is more of a gamboling issue.

  113. @Alec Leamas (working from home)
    It's probably Rose's competitiveness which drove him to gamble, including on baseball. But I doubt he would have bet against a team he was playing for or managing.

    "Charlie Hustle" was the icon of all-out competitiveness before the legend of Michael Jordan surpassed Rose. Jordan was also known to be a profligate gambler. I have no evidence of this but it would not surprise me a single iota if Jordan wagered on the Bulls to win against the spread during his career through cut outs, but I doubt he would have bet against the Bulls or been tempted to shave points. It just seems like betting on himself would have amped up his motivation to win, similar to the way it is reported that he would imagine opposing players trash talking him to motivate himself.

    Rose's competitiveness and spirit is probably what kept him from doing what MLB wanted him to do in order to be welcomed back into the fold. But he did apologize so I don't know why we're still punishing him:

    https://peterose.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/rose-sorry.jpg

    Replies: @megabar, @Hibernian, @Dr. DoomNGloom, @Jim Christian

    Jordan was also known to be a profligate gambler.

    SailerMan probably remembers this from John Feinstein’s book A Good Walk Spoiled, a book mostly about the PGA Tour and the golfing majors. In the book, Davis Love III opined that when both he and Jordan were student athletes at NC (Love golf, Jordan of course basketball), he got Jordan started in golf. Love said that Jordan became such a profligate golfing gambler that he “felt like having given Jordan a set of golf clubs was as if he had given Dillinger his first machine gun”.

    Apparently he and Phil Michelson are neck and neck in gambling losses in the tens of millions, much of Jordan’s, on the golf course.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Jim Christian

    It's an interesting question which great golfer in history was not an intensive golfer.

    I presume Tiger is too penny-pinching to be much of a gambler, but who knows?

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @Jim Christian

  114. @Jim Christian
    @Alec Leamas (working from home)


    Jordan was also known to be a profligate gambler.
     
    SailerMan probably remembers this from John Feinstein's book A Good Walk Spoiled, a book mostly about the PGA Tour and the golfing majors. In the book, Davis Love III opined that when both he and Jordan were student athletes at NC (Love golf, Jordan of course basketball), he got Jordan started in golf. Love said that Jordan became such a profligate golfing gambler that he "felt like having given Jordan a set of golf clubs was as if he had given Dillinger his first machine gun".

    Apparently he and Phil Michelson are neck and neck in gambling losses in the tens of millions, much of Jordan's, on the golf course.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    It’s an interesting question which great golfer in history was not an intensive golfer.

    I presume Tiger is too penny-pinching to be much of a gambler, but who knows?

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    @Steve Sailer

    I would say that John Daly was not intense about golfing, but most would argue that he isn't great per se, despite winning two majors.

    As for Tiger, he seems to only gamble in his personal life. I've never heard of him gambling per se.

    , @Jim Christian
    @Steve Sailer

    Wait Steve, an intensive GOLFER, or intensive GAMBLER?. I think Jack was the greatest golfer, intensive, but built thousands of golf courses and won more than Tiger (majors) and maintains throughout, his family and wife and sponsorship of tournaments that raise big dough for various charities. Plus, Jack is accessible to the booth on Sunday, Tiger, never, he's a ghost. Arnold, same as Jack, although he only won 7 or 8 majors. Jack and Arnold started the pgatour and IMG, agency of all the stars for decades. Everyone that comes afterwards is a flea by comparison. No matter their intensive nature. The money is so big now, if you win three times on tour, you'll make more than Jack and Arnold won in their careers COMBINED. Makes a guy lazy. And Tiger is the last real competitor who won for the sake of winning. But he was a failure in every other way.

    Replies: @middle-aged vet

  115. @Nicholas Stix
    @ScarletNumber


    "ESPN forced Al Michaels to take his place with Doc Rivers doing color. Al was NOT happy about this."
     
    Was Rivers the problem?

    Replies: @ScarletNumber

    No, Al was very set in his career and just didn’t want to work basketball any more. They only broke up this pairing because Doc had gotten hired to coach the Boston Celtics.

    Sorry for being unclear.

  116. @Steve Sailer
    @Jim Christian

    It's an interesting question which great golfer in history was not an intensive golfer.

    I presume Tiger is too penny-pinching to be much of a gambler, but who knows?

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @Jim Christian

    I would say that John Daly was not intense about golfing, but most would argue that he isn’t great per se, despite winning two majors.

    As for Tiger, he seems to only gamble in his personal life. I’ve never heard of him gambling per se.

  117. @Ganderson
    @Reg Cæsar

    First time I walked into the Dome I had an overwhelming feeling of disgust. Especially considering the quite nice baseball park it replaced.

    I was pretty happy in ‘87 and ‘91, though.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber

    Especially considering the quite nice baseball park it replaced.

    Maybe you don’t feel this way because it was YOUR dump, but wasn’t the Met a dump?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @ScarletNumber


    ...but wasn’t the Met a dump?
     
    If the Met was a dump,
    it still beats the Hump:
    they played in the sun
    of
    Bloomington.

    Home plate is remembered right where it lay,
    at the Mall of America, in the midway...

    https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49833950241_b9e17f61b6_b.jpg


    ...where you'll also notice a chair on the wall
    to commemorate Killebrew's 522' ball:

    https://baseballismy.life/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/harmon-killebrew-redseat.jpg

    , @Ganderson
    @ScarletNumber

    I wouldn’t say it was a dump, as you point out I am not exactly a disinterested observer, but it was a fine spot to watch baseball- it didn’t have the amenities of the modern yards, but the sight lines were good (for baseball, less so for football, although I’d point out that the Vikings have not been to the big game since they moved indoors) and it was outside. We used to love sitting on the second deck right behind home plate. The much maligned Calvin Griffith wanted a new stadium , but not the dome. The dome just sucked. It’s suckitude increased when they moved Gopher football there.

    Now, of course, every squad in the Twin Cities has their own crib- all four major league teams (five if you count the new MLS stadium in my old neighborhood in St. Paul) plus the U of M’s teams: football, both men’s and womens hockey and hoops.

  118. @JR Ewing
    @Steve Sailer

    All MLB teams attempt to steal signs and all are somewhat successful at it, at least in the short term.

    Alex Cora was a bench coach for the team that year and was the mastermind of the Astros scheme. He left to go manage the Red Sox the very next year and did the same thing and got caught there, too.

    The reason the Astros got so much attention that year was sour grapes from the two largest media markets (Yankees and Dodgers) who both got beat along the way during the postseason.

    Mike Fiers is a sorry snitch.

    Replies: @Jim Christian

    Cora is in last place in the AL East with a (MLB-wide) top 3 or 4 payroll, and it ain’t gonna get any better given the pieces they gave away last week. Chaim Bloom, their GM, who engineered world series teams in Tampa on 60 million dollar payrolls has experienced a downfall as well as Cora. The Boston press, as tough as that in Philly, is calling for both their heads. Expect both to be outta here at season’s end.

  119. @ScarletNumber
    @Reg Cæsar


    Was he the greatest player ever to don an Expos uniform?
     
    In terms of production as an Expo, definitely not. I would say it was Gary Carter. To answer your question literally Pete was probably the greatest position player to don the uniform, although I'm partial to Rusty Staub. If you are including pitchers it is tough to ignore Randy Johnson and Pedro.

    Anyway, he played 18+ seasons in his hometown. Who are the best who have done that?
     
    As the crow flies, Bridgehampton High School is only 115 miles from Fenway Park while it is 85 miles from Yankee Stadium. That's how close Yaz came.

    Replies: @kaganovitch

    I would say it was Gary Carter.

    One could make a case for Raines, maybe even Larry Walker, though Colorado stats are always suspect. Maybe even Dawson.

  120. @Dr. DoomNGloom
    @Alec Leamas (working from home)


    But I doubt he would have bet against a team he was playing for or managing.
     
    Though not as bad, any betting on a game he was involved with would be a problem (depending on the bet). He would, for example, be incentivized to run up the score or leave in a better pitcher to keep the score from getting out of hand.

    In contrast, Earl Weaver consistently beat the so-called Pythagorean projection. He didn't do this by winning more than he should, but by throwing the mop-up men into a bad game and allowing the losses to become more lop-sided. That is, he wouldn't waste resources for a low probability comeback at the risk of not having a fresh arm in a competitive game.

    For years, I advocated pulling the goalie in ice hockey earlier and spoke to a NHL head coach about it. Nonetheless, it didn't become a thing until Patrick Roy did it. Ironically, it's part of why gamblers don't like hockey goal spreads anymore.

    So while betting on oneself isn't in the same category as betting against, or point shaving, it does affect the integrity of the game.

    Replies: @I, Libertine

    No doubt it had happened before, but the first time I heard of using position players to finish games that had become hopeless blowouts was when Earl Weaver did it in the seventies.

    While I’m thinking of it, how did it come to be that it’s considered to be a point in a managers favor that his team beats its so-called Pythagorean projection? Is it really to the skipper’s credit that his team wins more games than its runs-scored to runs-surrendered ratio would predict? I thought being a manager involved making moves that maximize your team’s scoring, and minimize that of your adversaries.

    A poor “Pythagorean” ratio is hardly evidence that a manger has succeeded at that. I’d say that he’s just lucky, and/or he makes frequent use of the Earl Weaver method.

  121. @Brutusale
    @Anon

    Early in my career, I had a mentor who claimed that Bob Cousy used to shave points while playing for the immortal Celtics teams of the championship era. He said that Cousy's 4th quarter shooting percentage was way lower on a consistent basis.

    It brings home the point that the team can still win the game while the opponent still covers the spread, a true win-win for the crooked athlete on a good team.

    Replies: @Ron Mexico

    That would be ironic given that Cousy played the AD for faux UCLA in Blue Chips in which point shaving / dirty money in college sports was one of the themes.

  122. @ScarletNumber
    @Ganderson


    Especially considering the quite nice baseball park it replaced.
     
    Maybe you don't feel this way because it was YOUR dump, but wasn't the Met a dump?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Ganderson

    …but wasn’t the Met a dump?

    If the Met was a dump,
    it still beats the Hump:
    they played in the sun
    of
    Bloomington.

    Home plate is remembered right where it lay,
    at the Mall of America, in the midway…

    …where you’ll also notice a chair on the wall
    to commemorate Killebrew’s 522′ ball:

  123. @Steve Sailer
    @Jim Christian

    It's an interesting question which great golfer in history was not an intensive golfer.

    I presume Tiger is too penny-pinching to be much of a gambler, but who knows?

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @Jim Christian

    Wait Steve, an intensive GOLFER, or intensive GAMBLER?. I think Jack was the greatest golfer, intensive, but built thousands of golf courses and won more than Tiger (majors) and maintains throughout, his family and wife and sponsorship of tournaments that raise big dough for various charities. Plus, Jack is accessible to the booth on Sunday, Tiger, never, he’s a ghost. Arnold, same as Jack, although he only won 7 or 8 majors. Jack and Arnold started the pgatour and IMG, agency of all the stars for decades. Everyone that comes afterwards is a flea by comparison. No matter their intensive nature. The money is so big now, if you win three times on tour, you’ll make more than Jack and Arnold won in their careers COMBINED. Makes a guy lazy. And Tiger is the last real competitor who won for the sake of winning. But he was a failure in every other way.

    • Replies: @middle-aged vet
    @Jim Christian

    He had to have meant "intensive gambler" because almost everyone who knows even a little about golf history knows which great golfers were intense about golf. The intensive gambling is a little less obvious.

  124. @ScarletNumber
    @Ganderson


    Especially considering the quite nice baseball park it replaced.
     
    Maybe you don't feel this way because it was YOUR dump, but wasn't the Met a dump?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Ganderson

    I wouldn’t say it was a dump, as you point out I am not exactly a disinterested observer, but it was a fine spot to watch baseball- it didn’t have the amenities of the modern yards, but the sight lines were good (for baseball, less so for football, although I’d point out that the Vikings have not been to the big game since they moved indoors) and it was outside. We used to love sitting on the second deck right behind home plate. The much maligned Calvin Griffith wanted a new stadium , but not the dome. The dome just sucked. It’s suckitude increased when they moved Gopher football there.

    Now, of course, every squad in the Twin Cities has their own crib- all four major league teams (five if you count the new MLS stadium in my old neighborhood in St. Paul) plus the U of M’s teams: football, both men’s and womens hockey and hoops.

  125. @R.G. Camara
    @Feryl


    Romo was only somewhat nastier than the NFL norm that existed before the 90’s.
     
    And Castro killed fewer than Mao or Stalin. Big deal. Castro's still a horrid evil dude and people who pal around with him are evil.

    Also, perhaps you didn't bother to read: Romo physically ripped off Marcus's Williams' helmet and crushed his eye socket, ENDING his career. IN PRACTICE. WHILE THEY WERE TEAMMATES.

    That's beyond someone doing rough legal hits and talking trash.

    https://infogalactic.com/info/Marcus_Williams_(tight_end)

    Romo's actions were so egregious Williams won a lawsuit against him for ending his career. He would've won more, but couldn't prove Romo was on 'roids at the time--it was before Romo confessed his BALCO involvement and usage.

    The fact that Romo and murderers like Ray Lewis were not banned from the league for life tells you all you need to know about the NFL.

    Replies: @Feryl

    There was a minor scandal in the 90’s when a hazing ritual (think of the “soap party” in Full Metal Jacket) at a Saints training camp went off the rails and they ended up mangling some poor kid. Football culture is not for the faint of heart.

    • Replies: @Nicholas Stix
    @Feryl

    That was a racist, not a "hazing" ritual.

    Ownership and the MSM have also consistently ignored black players’ racial violence.

    This goes back years. In 1998, black New Orleans Saints players were violently hazing young white players. Rookie tight end Cam Cleeland was hit by black linebacker Andre Royal “with a sock full of coins that broke his eye socket and nose, and almost caused him to lose vision in his eye.”

    ["Former Husky Cam Cleeland remembers his NFL hazing"
    By Bob Condotta, Seattle Times, November 9, 2013.]

    The NFL’s response: ignore it. (The Saints traded Andre Royal, while cutting white victim Jeff Danish, who was almost killed in the incident.)

    Only one MSM report quoted Cleeland’s father pointing out the racial nature of the assault....

    “Pro Football, SJW Sportswriters, and the Great White Dope Syndrome”

    https://vdare.com/articles/pro-football-sjw-sportswriters-and-the-great-white-dope-syndrome

  126. @Hypnotoad666
    @Feryl


    memory serves the league only acknowledges that like two games (!) in league history were affected by players, coaches, or league officials gambling.
     
    The nature of point spread betting creates a lot of opportunity to cash in by, say, going for the field goal rather than the touch down when you are ahead. Or running out the clock rather than running up the score. Or punting rather than going for the first down. But these seem to be coaching decisions and thus coaches' opportunities to cheat.

    Given the number of players and their individual inability to control the score (with possible exception of QB), it's got to be much harder for the players themselves to cheat. A WR could plan on dropping passes but that will get you benched or cut in short order. So good luck with that scheme.

    Replies: @Danindc, @Feryl

    It’s very easy for players to shave points and such. After all, a dropped pass, fumble, errant pass etc. can be written off as a momentary lapse in concentration. Also, as I recall from the player gambling stuff I looked into, the QB and RB are the players you want to get to since they so frequently touch the ball and therefore can have plausible deniability about occasional “mistakes” that have a large impact on their teams performance.

    Oh, and did you ever notice how often Brett Farve would throw momentous interceptions, or how often Adrian Peterson fumbled the ball when his team had a chance to put a game away? Makes you wonder, huh? And gee, why do some running backs in general go through a (sometimes years long) phase of not being able to avoid fumbling?

    As paranoid as this sounds, when you realize just how corrupting gambling is (as it exposes people to scuzzbags who can manipulate and blackmail you), yet the leagues do so little to combat it, you might then start to be skeptical. About everything. Maybe Leon Lett slowing down to let Don Beebe swat the ball out was more than just clowning. What about Jim Marshall’s wrong way run? How come NFL defenses have late game rubber band AI, where these “finely conditioned” athletes suddenly can’t tackle a tortoise?

    Lastly, the courts have ruled that sports are entertainment, not an activity or entity subject to ethical regulation WRT honest competition. In fact, fans cannot sue for a game held under a false pretense of fair competition. Thus “real sports” are in fact under no more obligation to provide an honest contest than pro wrestling.

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
    @Feryl


    As paranoid as this sounds, when you realize just how corrupting gambling is (as it exposes people to scuzzbags who can manipulate and blackmail you), yet the leagues do so little to combat it, you might then start to be skeptical.
     
    Paranoid? Not to worry. From fantasy football leagues to sports gambling operations via casinos and online, (I'm referring to NFL here, but it applies to all sports), the entire platform of the NFL is ripe for a scandal. Back in 68 or 69, they kicked Joe Namath out of the NFL because he owned a share of a bar in NYC (Bachelor's 3, or Partners 3?) that attracted shady characters, wise guys I suppose. They had to protect the "honor" of the game. Rozelle insisted he sell his interest and stay out of there or quit. For a year, he quit IIRC. Then, he sold.

    Namath must be spitting his coffee every time a new gambling operation signs on with the NFL. Draft Kings is big in New England And I believe Robert Kraft, Patriots owner, has a share in that, a financial connection. How is THAT ok? Oh, we know how. Things change for the owners. There's no way it won't be corrupted in a spectacular way dwarfing anything the mobsters pulled in the old days.

    Replies: @Brutusale

  127. @Jim Christian
    @Steve Sailer

    Wait Steve, an intensive GOLFER, or intensive GAMBLER?. I think Jack was the greatest golfer, intensive, but built thousands of golf courses and won more than Tiger (majors) and maintains throughout, his family and wife and sponsorship of tournaments that raise big dough for various charities. Plus, Jack is accessible to the booth on Sunday, Tiger, never, he's a ghost. Arnold, same as Jack, although he only won 7 or 8 majors. Jack and Arnold started the pgatour and IMG, agency of all the stars for decades. Everyone that comes afterwards is a flea by comparison. No matter their intensive nature. The money is so big now, if you win three times on tour, you'll make more than Jack and Arnold won in their careers COMBINED. Makes a guy lazy. And Tiger is the last real competitor who won for the sake of winning. But he was a failure in every other way.

    Replies: @middle-aged vet

    He had to have meant “intensive gambler” because almost everyone who knows even a little about golf history knows which great golfers were intense about golf. The intensive gambling is a little less obvious.

    • Thanks: Jim Christian
  128. Lastly, the courts have ruled that sports are entertainment, not an activity or entity subject to ethical regulation WRT honest competition. In fact, fans cannot sue for a game held under a false pretense of fair competition. Thus “real sports” are in fact under no more obligation to provide an honest contest than pro wrestling.

    While it’s true that fans don’t have the standing to sue, the rest of your statement is incorrect. There are laws on the books vis-a-vis fixing bona fide sporting events. It wasn’t explicitly stated in Goodfellas, but the crime that Jimmy Burke was convicted of was Conspiracy in the Boston College basketball scandal. It was also left out of Casino that Ace Rothstein plead No Contest to bribing an NYU basketball player to fix a game.

    Meanwhile when Randy Macho Man Savage pinned the Million Dollar Man to win Wrestlemania IV in Atlantic City, the New Jersey Attorney General didn’t get involved.

  129. @Feryl
    @Hypnotoad666

    It's very easy for players to shave points and such. After all, a dropped pass, fumble, errant pass etc. can be written off as a momentary lapse in concentration. Also, as I recall from the player gambling stuff I looked into, the QB and RB are the players you want to get to since they so frequently touch the ball and therefore can have plausible deniability about occasional "mistakes" that have a large impact on their teams performance.

    Oh, and did you ever notice how often Brett Farve would throw momentous interceptions, or how often Adrian Peterson fumbled the ball when his team had a chance to put a game away? Makes you wonder, huh? And gee, why do some running backs in general go through a (sometimes years long) phase of not being able to avoid fumbling?

    As paranoid as this sounds, when you realize just how corrupting gambling is (as it exposes people to scuzzbags who can manipulate and blackmail you), yet the leagues do so little to combat it, you might then start to be skeptical. About everything. Maybe Leon Lett slowing down to let Don Beebe swat the ball out was more than just clowning. What about Jim Marshall's wrong way run? How come NFL defenses have late game rubber band AI, where these "finely conditioned" athletes suddenly can't tackle a tortoise?

    Lastly, the courts have ruled that sports are entertainment, not an activity or entity subject to ethical regulation WRT honest competition. In fact, fans cannot sue for a game held under a false pretense of fair competition. Thus "real sports" are in fact under no more obligation to provide an honest contest than pro wrestling.

    Replies: @Jim Christian

    As paranoid as this sounds, when you realize just how corrupting gambling is (as it exposes people to scuzzbags who can manipulate and blackmail you), yet the leagues do so little to combat it, you might then start to be skeptical.

    Paranoid? Not to worry. From fantasy football leagues to sports gambling operations via casinos and online, (I’m referring to NFL here, but it applies to all sports), the entire platform of the NFL is ripe for a scandal. Back in 68 or 69, they kicked Joe Namath out of the NFL because he owned a share of a bar in NYC (Bachelor’s 3, or Partners 3?) that attracted shady characters, wise guys I suppose. They had to protect the “honor” of the game. Rozelle insisted he sell his interest and stay out of there or quit. For a year, he quit IIRC. Then, he sold.

    Namath must be spitting his coffee every time a new gambling operation signs on with the NFL. Draft Kings is big in New England And I believe Robert Kraft, Patriots owner, has a share in that, a financial connection. How is THAT ok? Oh, we know how. Things change for the owners. There’s no way it won’t be corrupted in a spectacular way dwarfing anything the mobsters pulled in the old days.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @Jim Christian

    I think you're a Boston guy. Do you remember Namath's partner in Bachelors III?

    http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/balancing-act/201302/crossing-line-derek-sanderson-boston-bruins-nhl-joe-namath-bachelors-iii

    All those 70s meat markets in Boston had the Bachelors III DNA.

    Crooked? Probably. You have all the sidekicks with names like Cimino, Abruzzese, and Vannuchi, and expansion worked through the likes of Sonny McDonough.

  130. Dude, you need to get over your dog, it’s becoming a little creepy. The next stop is walking through the park in matching track suits.

  131. @Feryl
    @R.G. Camara

    There was a minor scandal in the 90's when a hazing ritual (think of the "soap party" in Full Metal Jacket) at a Saints training camp went off the rails and they ended up mangling some poor kid. Football culture is not for the faint of heart.

    Replies: @Nicholas Stix

    That was a racist, not a “hazing” ritual.

    Ownership and the MSM have also consistently ignored black players’ racial violence.

    This goes back years. In 1998, black New Orleans Saints players were violently hazing young white players. Rookie tight end Cam Cleeland was hit by black linebacker Andre Royal “with a sock full of coins that broke his eye socket and nose, and almost caused him to lose vision in his eye.”

    [“Former Husky Cam Cleeland remembers his NFL hazing”
    By Bob Condotta, Seattle Times, November 9, 2013.]

    The NFL’s response: ignore it. (The Saints traded Andre Royal, while cutting white victim Jeff Danish, who was almost killed in the incident.)

    Only one MSM report quoted Cleeland’s father pointing out the racial nature of the assault….

    “Pro Football, SJW Sportswriters, and the Great White Dope Syndrome”

    https://vdare.com/articles/pro-football-sjw-sportswriters-and-the-great-white-dope-syndrome

  132. @Steve Sailer
    @TWS

    If all the other dogs gambled, she would.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    Perhaps it is more of a gamboling issue.

  133. @Reg Cæsar

    One out later, the Phillies were World Champs.
     
    No, they weren't. They were World Series champs. You don't get to announce yourself as world champions without issuing a challenge. Never mind Japan; don't trust any claim that leaves out Cuba and the Dominican Republic.

    In the 1980s and 1990s, the Seibu Lions were Japan's equivalent of the 1920s or 1950s New York Yankees. They won 13 league titles in a 17-year stretch, and six Japan Series in a seven-year period.

    One of those came in 1987, the year the pathetic, literally mediocre Minnesota Twins announced their own "world championship". The only reason they had a postseason at all was because the "division" boundary was slanted. Milwaukee is about 15 miles farther west than is Chicago. The Brewers were one of four teams in the East with a better record than the Twins.

    They were by a hair the only team in their division with a winning record, and clinched a week before the end of the regular season. After which they went on vacation/strike, losing their final seven games, getting a good rest for the undeserved postseason. There is something deeply unethical about that.

    Meanwhile, Detroit and Toronto were engaged in one of the fiercest pennant fights of the century, both closing in on 100 wins. The results of that effort were thrown in the trash. There is something deeply unethical about that.

    I'll sit back now and wait for Scarlet Commenter to label me a Troll. The first season I followed was the 1967 American League race, so I was spoiled, evidently. But real pennant races were fun, and that was the second-to-last.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Ron Mexico, @Danindc, @Feryl, @Paul Jolliffe

    You may remember, Reg, that the 1987 Tigers needed to take two of three from the Blue Jays on the last weekend of the regular season to force an extra game to determine the division championship.

    However, the Monday game wasn’t needed because the Tigers swept the Jays.

    I remember – I was in the upper deck centerfield bleachers in the immortal Tiger Stadium for that Friday’s game.

    4-3 Detroit, as Doyle Alexander remained undefeated after the Tigers traded John Smoltz to get him.

    Great title chase down the stretch!

  134. The answer: Commitment.
    I can’t speak for your dog, but mine is 100% committed in everything she does.
    The same characterizes Pete Rose. “Charlie Hustle” (what a great nickname) brought it all to the game.
    More generally, it’s my opinion that dogs exhibit the best qualities of people, but in pure form. The love, the loyalty, the defend-to-the-death partnership – dogs can’t be beat.

  135. @Jack D
    It's not that Peter Rose was like just any dog but he was like certain dogs - dogs that have HEART. We lost our dog of almost 15 yrs in Feb. and she was a Peter Rose kind of dog. If she was drinking water, this was surely the best water EVER and she went at that water bowl as if she hadn't had a drink in days (even though her last drink was 10 minutes ago). If you gave her something to chew on, she was going to chew at it until it was torn to shreds - we gave up trying to find an unrippable stuffed toy (nylabones worked although they did get shorter eventually).

    It was all very Zen - she really taught me the value of living in the moment. When she was chasing a rabbit, she was chasing a rabbit - she wasn't thinking about whether she had scheduled the credit card payment before the due date or even thinking other doggy thoughts about having a drink of water - at that moment she was CHASING A RABBIT will all of her strength and energy and that was IT. The rest of the world would disappear for that moment.

    Then a few weeks ago we dog sat a niece's dog and he was nothing like that. Everything was very meh to him. I don't know whether his owner had broken his spirit or if he didn't have any in the first place, but he was just going thru the motions of being a dog - his heart just wasn't in it.

    Replies: @Tracy, @Macumazahn

    Yes, great comment. That’s how my dog is, and how Pete Rose played – total commitment.

  136. Cynicism > nihilism

    https://www.etymonline.com/word/cynic

    This is pretty much the choice before us. Earnestness needs good guard dogs.

  137. @Jim Christian
    @Feryl


    As paranoid as this sounds, when you realize just how corrupting gambling is (as it exposes people to scuzzbags who can manipulate and blackmail you), yet the leagues do so little to combat it, you might then start to be skeptical.
     
    Paranoid? Not to worry. From fantasy football leagues to sports gambling operations via casinos and online, (I'm referring to NFL here, but it applies to all sports), the entire platform of the NFL is ripe for a scandal. Back in 68 or 69, they kicked Joe Namath out of the NFL because he owned a share of a bar in NYC (Bachelor's 3, or Partners 3?) that attracted shady characters, wise guys I suppose. They had to protect the "honor" of the game. Rozelle insisted he sell his interest and stay out of there or quit. For a year, he quit IIRC. Then, he sold.

    Namath must be spitting his coffee every time a new gambling operation signs on with the NFL. Draft Kings is big in New England And I believe Robert Kraft, Patriots owner, has a share in that, a financial connection. How is THAT ok? Oh, we know how. Things change for the owners. There's no way it won't be corrupted in a spectacular way dwarfing anything the mobsters pulled in the old days.

    Replies: @Brutusale

    I think you’re a Boston guy. Do you remember Namath’s partner in Bachelors III?

    http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/balancing-act/201302/crossing-line-derek-sanderson-boston-bruins-nhl-joe-namath-bachelors-iii

    All those 70s meat markets in Boston had the Bachelors III DNA.

    Crooked? Probably. You have all the sidekicks with names like Cimino, Abruzzese, and Vannuchi, and expansion worked through the likes of Sonny McDonough.

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