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From the New York Times news section:

After 10 Years of Hopes and Setbacks, What Happened to the Common Core?

It was one of the most ambitious education efforts in United States history. Did it fail? Or does it just need more time to succeed?

By Dana Goldstein
Dec. 6, 2019

The plan was hatched with high hopes and missionary zeal: For the first time in its history, the United States would come together to create consistent, rigorous education standards and stop letting so many school children fall behind academically.

More than 40 states signed on to the plan, known as the Common Core State Standards Initiative, after it was rolled out in 2010 by a bipartisan group of governors, education experts and philanthropists. The education secretary at the time, Arne Duncan, declared himself “ecstatic.”

American children would read more nonfiction, write better essays and understand key mathematical concepts, instead of just mechanically solving equations.

“We are being outpaced by other nations,” President Barack Obama said in one 2009 speech, in which he praised states that were moving toward the Common Core. “It’s not that their kids are any smarter than ours — it’s that they are being smarter about how to educate their children.” …

And low-performing students, who were supposed to benefit most, have especially struggled in recent years.

The disappointing results have prompted many in the education world to take stock of the Common Core, one of the most ambitious education reform projects in American history. Some see the effort as a failure, while others say it is too soon to judge the program, whose principles are still being rolled out at the classroom level.

OK, here’s the real story behind the Common Core.

The idea was sold by a guy named David Coleman who is now head of the College Board. He was a very bright McKinsey consultant. Back in high school, a friend used to run into Coleman and his debate partner Hanna Rosin in speech tournaments. He and his partner went 0 and 8 against Coleman-Rosin. Rosin’s future husband David Plotz became the third editor of Slate back when Slate hired Michael Kinsley clones.

Coleman went to the funder of Slate, Bill Gates, and told him in effect that school curriculums should be less girly, more like Michael Kinsley’s Slate. For example, don’t assign so many works of fiction in English, assign more nonfiction. Put more statistics into math.

You can see this in Coleman’s new Slate-flavored SAT: I worked through the reading comprehension section of an SAT sample test recently, and I found most of the readings, including one ultra-Slatish contrarian essay from Kinsley’s old compadre David Owen, to be quite interesting.

One obvious (but overlooked) influence on Coleman’s Common Core was E.D. Hirsch’s old Core Knowledge idea that to improve reading comprehension, we should teach kids more facts so ignorance won’t get as much in the way of comprehension. I doubt if it would make much of a difference, but I like facts so I’ve always been sympathetic to Hirsch.

So, Common Core was basically a conspiracy by intelligent centrists to move K-12 education a tiny bit to the right.

On the other hand, Coleman and Gates, while bright, don’t actually know much about education, so their ideas wouldn’t necessarily work. In particular, their tastes in math tended to make sense to Harvard Math 55 students rather than to average ten year olds.

What should have happened was that Gates would fund Coleman to test different approaches for, say, ten or fifteen years and then roll out what works best.

But that’s not the way anything happens in the faddish ed biz. Instead, they just started their own fad with, as far as I can tell, zero testing and talked 40 states into adopting it wholesale.

Not surprisingly, it wasn’t ready for prime time. So now it’s out of fashion. On to the next fad!

 
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  1. Anon[241] • Disclaimer says:

    Statistics is girly math. It’s important, useful, and deep. But it’s girly. Math majors avoid it because of its stigma. You’ll notice that more and more universities are splitting it off into a separate department, “Statistics and Data Science.” Math departments launder their advanced statistics courses through names like “applied probability theory” or “stochastic analysis.”

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Right, Coleman's idea was to make reading less girl and math more girly.

    Like I said, Bill Gates is not a stupid man, and he liked David Coleman more than most of the other ed reformers who have pitched him.

    , @Reg Cæsar

    Math majors avoid it because of its stigma.
     
    Even when it's six stigma?
    , @El Dato
    Math: Working in imagined domains explorable by symbol processing where things a certain (TRUE/FALSE if you want to slum it in the classical logic ghetto) and facts can be elicited in good part by syntactical transformation of character strings ("proofs"). You write programs in Coq.

    Statistics: You get the toolings from Math, but now everything is noisier than the Nostromo at sublight, causality is new concept entering the field post-2000, and you actually have to make contact with the real world in a way that may involve getting acquainted with a legal counsel. You write programs in R.
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson 3

    Statistics is girly math.
     
    Yes, get a boyish degree like math. Then go to employers with your boyish credential and watch them yawn. You will not know how to do anything useful, but hey, if somebody needs the one-millionth proof of a math theorem only mathematicians care about, you will be there at the ready!
    , @Anon
    More jobs require a knowledge of statistics than algebra, geometry, or calculus. You increase your chances to get a job if you know statistics.
    , @Cybele
    Please explain "girly" to us. I did not know there was such an adjective. Please give an accurate expanation.
    , @Anonymous
    For some reason it seemed that there were more female math majors than most engineering branches, especially EE/ME/Aero. I am guessing it is the physics component. Math is less masculine than most give it credit for (though at the highest levels, like anything, where are the females? Are the names behind the theories anything but male really? Women like Noether are the exception that prove the rule.).

    I don't think stats is the reason though. At least, it never occurred to me nor anyone else I knew.
  2. You get the impression of the Amoeba of Eduacshion trying to break out of its clay trap and failing repeatedly.

    American children would read more nonfiction

    A detailed overview of the economic evolution of Great Britain from the Thatcherite perspective would be good.

    write better essays

    Uh huh.

    and understand key mathematical concepts, instead of just mechanically solving equations.

    “Understanding” is like learning to navigate, possibly literally so.

    Success at “mechanically solving equations” would be a strong step towards that goal. Myself, I didn’t grok all the “solving” idea until uni. Then it occurred to me that one just throws constraints at large spaces and tries to make the constraints palatable by whatever means necessary. Means which are often in short supply once you go beyond triangles, quadrilaterals and a d/dx or two.

    100% certainty says the teachers don’t get the “key mathematical concepts” either.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • LOL: Old Prude
    • Replies: @Kronos
    Oh the pain is real....

    I’ve steadily moved to the notion that education is intentionally (and increasing) spiked on purpose. If you had a decent middle management job these young uppity kids might take that job away. Better to water down their credentials and spike their classes with (DIE) cyanide so no employers will tough it. So they possess no skills and their cognitive ability is in question.

    Job security is nice!
    , @Hypnotoad666

    100% certainty says the teachers don’t get the “key mathematical concepts” either.
     
    True. And not just for Math and hard science, either. Has anyone given the Common Core competency tests to the teachers themselves?
    , @danand
    El Dato,

    What! The instant thought that popped into my noggin as I gazed over you visuals of the Teutuls, Jr & Sr, was "OK Boomer". At the party my young teen daughter hosted at the house last Monday ago, OK Boomer was term du jour. I am certain none of the youth were aware of the intended/proper context, if there is such, but it was amusing. I would guess from their utilization Boomer applies to all those beyond their teens.

    Bill Gates made at minimum a change from public to private school as a youth. Seems he was a bit taken aback by the diversity in curriculum between them. May be why he was enamored with the idea of a "common core"? He has also said, during his time at public school at least, that he read his textbooks within the 1st week, and "goofed off" for the remainder of the course/year.

    Judging from his ~2M subscriber YouTube channel, you could make an argument that like a lot of people of the current mindset he is for a common core of student thought, and a diversity of student color. And maybe a bit like Oprah in search of the "great (not white) hope for humanity" often looks to find it or them in far flung exotic lands, as it seem so elusive here in America. Fortunately, for him at least, he appears to have no aversion to failure.

    Could be it's all just a bit of misdirection, all this public African/African American focused effort a screen to shield him from the real, effective, works he most certainly must be undertaking; supplying high intellect by DNA children with similar unlimited resources.

    https://youtu.be/99gERWHEQko

    BTW my daughters schoolbook texts always have been, and remain up to this day, of the Common Core variety.
    , @Peter Akuleyev
    A detailed overview of the economic evolution of Great Britain from the Thatcherite perspective would be good.

    Except that that story is ammunition for the left.
  3. i didn’t comment on the PISA release, and only commented on the NAEP release a few times in Anatoly’s threads, but what i saw for the europeans in US and in Europe for those tests, was somewhat encouraging actually.

    in US, i think the public school students were less negatively affected by Common Core than we expected, or at minimum, it’s negative effects has passed us, as Common Core has sort of been phased out as yet another education fad. for the 13 year olds in NAEP, Common Core is probably too far in the past to have affected them much. they likely got some of it in grade school but now they’re 5 years passed it’s main push.

    in europe, based on PISA 2018, i don’t think there’s much dysgenics happening, for the northwest europeans anyway, less the scandinavians. if you go deep into the report and get the numbers just for the natives, filtering out the immigrant people over the last 50 years, they’re actually above 100 wechsler. and also in Canada, they’re doing about the same, since core Canadians are all also northwest europeans, less the Celts. in the US, it looks like the europeans are separating into two groups, one group above wechsler 100, and one group below. but, we now have the evidence that US isn’t turning into a simple Idiocracy scenario, for the europeans anyway. the smart kids are still getting slightly smarter, in line with what Charles Murray has been tweeting about recently.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    and also in Canada, they’re doing about the same, since core Canadians are all also northwest europeans, less the Celts.
     
    What is this sentence supposed to mean? Are Celts not northwest Europeans, too?
  4. @Anon
    Statistics is girly math. It's important, useful, and deep. But it's girly. Math majors avoid it because of its stigma. You'll notice that more and more universities are splitting it off into a separate department, "Statistics and Data Science." Math departments launder their advanced statistics courses through names like "applied probability theory" or "stochastic analysis."

    Right, Coleman’s idea was to make reading less girl and math more girly.

    Like I said, Bill Gates is not a stupid man, and he liked David Coleman more than most of the other ed reformers who have pitched him.

    • Replies: @South Texas Guy

    Like I said, Bill Gates is not a stupid man
     
    Although he did, allegedly, allow his wife to run the micosoft word project, the most notorious part of which was the paper clip pop up.

    That's truly a Bill and Hillary relationship.
    , @slumber_j
    Gates probably likes Coleman for the same reasons I liked Coleman back when I knew him when I lived in Oxford in his (not my) Rhodes Scholar days: he's a smart, affable go-getter--as though someone had bred a race of otherwise totally normal, relatable human beings who were significantly better at talking and school than most other people. To 'spergy Gates (who mostly hangs out with his own ilk in Techland), this must have seemed like a miracle.
    , @Charon

    Bill Gates is not a stupid man
     
    Likely not, but in that case he's irredeemably evil. The Gates Foundation has been pouring billions into Africa with the explicit plan of increasing the number of Africans.

    No one here needs to be told what the implications of four billion Africans are for the world at large. It's possible that Bill and Melinda are aiming to make it five or six.

    People say that the 20th century was a disaster. It was just preamble.

    , @Joe Schmoe

    Coleman’s idea was to make reading less girl and math more girly.

     

    If true then, this shows they know and understand the average differences between boys and girls and wish to obscure them with carefully selected topics and test items.

    For example, one could construct a test of many and varied items, give it to a group of 50/50 boys and girls and then find the items that both boys and girls missed at the same rate. Then they could create a new "bias free" test by only including those items. I am sure they have thought of this already. But those boys and girls in sufficiently large groups like SAT takers are very stubborn about not missing questions at the same rate, so they have not been able to construct such a test. Same for race, etc. Which is why I suspect you are right that they didn't test this theory out before they rolled it out.
    , @R.G. Camara
    Gates knows that charity is an excellent way to hide your corruption and evil. Charities serve as useful fronts for money -laundering, bribery, human trafficking, and other nefarious deeds.

    As is obvious from the Clintons (with whom Gates partied on Epstein's sex slave island) and their clearly-a-bribery-and -money-laundering front the Clinton Foundation.

    Or with the Vatican Bank scandal bank back in the 1970s, where a crooked (and Freemason) banker used his position running the Vatican's charity holdings company (which wasn't technically supposed to be a bank, as it wasn't supposed to lend out at interest, only to fund Vatican-blessed charity activities) to launder Mafia money, and only got caught when his investments of the money turned sour and the Mafia came calling for their dough.

    So Gates giving some pittance (for him) to another obviously-going-to-fail educational fad was worth it, as it covered up whatever real evil he was doing in the charity

  5. The problem with Common Core is that it’s much too common for me.

    • Replies: @Bard of Bumperstickers
    The problem with Common Core is that it leaves a schoolchild qualified to be only a common whore.
  6. @Anon
    Statistics is girly math. It's important, useful, and deep. But it's girly. Math majors avoid it because of its stigma. You'll notice that more and more universities are splitting it off into a separate department, "Statistics and Data Science." Math departments launder their advanced statistics courses through names like "applied probability theory" or "stochastic analysis."

    Math majors avoid it because of its stigma.

    Even when it’s six stigma?

    • LOL: TomSchmidt
    • Replies: @El Dato
    You better have Jesus on call!
  7. @El Dato
    You get the impression of the Amoeba of Eduacshion trying to break out of its clay trap and failing repeatedly.

    American children would read more nonfiction
     
    A detailed overview of the economic evolution of Great Britain from the Thatcherite perspective would be good.

    write better essays
     
    Uh huh.

    and understand key mathematical concepts, instead of just mechanically solving equations.
     
    "Understanding" is like learning to navigate, possibly literally so.

    Success at "mechanically solving equations" would be a strong step towards that goal. Myself, I didn't grok all the "solving" idea until uni. Then it occurred to me that one just throws constraints at large spaces and tries to make the constraints palatable by whatever means necessary. Means which are often in short supply once you go beyond triangles, quadrilaterals and a d/dx or two.

    100% certainty says the teachers don't get the "key mathematical concepts" either.

    https://i.imgur.com/ElTdjEQ.jpg

    Oh the pain is real….

    I’ve steadily moved to the notion that education is intentionally (and increasing) spiked on purpose. If you had a decent middle management job these young uppity kids might take that job away. Better to water down their credentials and spike their classes with (DIE) cyanide so no employers will tough it. So they possess no skills and their cognitive ability is in question.

    Job security is nice!

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    Rather like how boys aren't taught how to be men,so they remain forever superannuated boys. It keeps the supply of men much lower and leaves those men well supplied with women seeking men.it was greatly to the benefit of the first men who thought up the idea, like the first man who sent his wife to work to buy a house got an advantage in the real estate market.

    Of course, after a while, you get a societal collapse. But then, apres moi, le deluge.
  8. I recall reading that a big part of the problem with Common Core was instructions to teachers. Various ways to teach the material was given, “for students different learning styles”. The instructions inferred you should use all the methods.
    It also didn’t help that a lot of the critics forgot what school was like when they attended.

    • Replies: @South Texas Guy

    It also didn’t help that a lot of the critics forgot what school was like when they attended.
     
    Yeah, the whole 'learning styles' thing has pretty much been discredited. But it did get some Ed. professors their Phd's. And that was the whole point.
    , @Travis
    I agree. Many teachers also struggle with how to teach the new methods, since we did not learn math this way. Also their parents struggle with it and cannot help the students with the homework, because they were never taught math this way.

    With the common core math curriculum we have to teach the concepts and make the students use more models in an attempt to help their conceptual understanding. But the bottom 20% of the students get even more frustrated with math and we see their performance has been worse, because they get very confused by the conceptual concepts and thus get more frustrated and we have less time to review the equations to solve the problems.

    The common core curriculum adds many models and concepts to the lesson plans , which means we spend less time teaching the algorithms and less time practicing doing math problems, more time drawing models and reading word problems. A few students benefit from common core and but more students struggle and get frustrated , thus performing worse. Since we only have the same amount of time in the class to teach math , we end up spending less time doing math problems and this makes it more difficult to teach, as we have more material to cover in the same time frame each day. To get proper lessons in the concepts and models we would need additional classroom time to teach the additional material.
  9. I never understood the rage against CC coming from conversative quarters. All they would do was fuming about muh big gobarmint. The idea itself is fine. Having a common baseline is important. We can quibble over the exact details in how that baseline will be defined but I find it hard to fault the core idea.

    • Replies: @John Arthur
    America's PISA scores by race are fine, it looks like CC is alright to me
    , @gcochran
    It was stupid. No testing of whether it worked before national introduction.
  10. Hirsch’s old Core Knowledge idea that to improve reading comprehension, we should teach kids more facts so ignorance won’t get as much in the way of comprehension.

    But that’s not the way anything happens in the faddish ed biz. Instead, they just started their own fad with, as far as I can tell, zero testing and talked 40 states into adopting it wholesale.

    Back when this thing came into vogue, I was still a beat reporter, and several principals I knew (solid, not ed. nutjobs) thought it would help out. (BTW, it never amazes me to hear teachers, principals, etc. talk about their jobs as if they are on the front line in Afghanistan.) (BTW, ex teacher).

    Simple fix. 1) impose more discipline, 2) don’t let school principals with pushing problems down the line, 3) don’t let slack ass parents get off easy when they stick for their Finkelstein Shit Kids, 4) Most importantly, track students by IQ (not an exact science, but close enough), and teach them at their level. I can’t tell you about the number of times times I’ve had to deal with dumbass students, and their parent who claim ‘but he’s smart.’

    Anyone with a sub 90 IQ can only do basic math, and basic grammar. Forcing them to take both algebra course plus geometry is a waste of time. Same goes for advanced literary study, or history.

    • Agree: Desiderius, Rosie
    • Replies: @William Badwhite

    Anyone with a sub 90 IQ can only do basic math, and basic grammar. Forcing them to take both algebra course plus geometry is a waste of time. Same goes for advanced literary study, or history.
     
    No no, everyone should go to college. Especially blacks. Everyone is above average now.
    , @Midtown
    Agreed.
  11. @Steve Sailer
    Right, Coleman's idea was to make reading less girl and math more girly.

    Like I said, Bill Gates is not a stupid man, and he liked David Coleman more than most of the other ed reformers who have pitched him.

    Like I said, Bill Gates is not a stupid man

    Although he did, allegedly, allow his wife to run the micosoft word project, the most notorious part of which was the paper clip pop up.

    That’s truly a Bill and Hillary relationship.

  12. @Redneck farmer
    I recall reading that a big part of the problem with Common Core was instructions to teachers. Various ways to teach the material was given, "for students different learning styles". The instructions inferred you should use all the methods.
    It also didn't help that a lot of the critics forgot what school was like when they attended.

    It also didn’t help that a lot of the critics forgot what school was like when they attended.

    Yeah, the whole ‘learning styles’ thing has pretty much been discredited. But it did get some Ed. professors their Phd’s. And that was the whole point.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Rosie

    Yeah, the whole ‘learning styles’ thing has pretty much been discredited. But it did get some Ed. professors their Phd’s. And that was the whole point.
     
    Wow. I believe you, but this doesn't ring true to me at all. My kids have all been very different in what works best for them, but I can see how it wouldn't really matter in a large classroom. There, you have to do what works for large groups, obviously.
  13. High hopes and missionary zeal … why does that sound so familiar?

  14. @Steve Sailer
    Right, Coleman's idea was to make reading less girl and math more girly.

    Like I said, Bill Gates is not a stupid man, and he liked David Coleman more than most of the other ed reformers who have pitched him.

    Gates probably likes Coleman for the same reasons I liked Coleman back when I knew him when I lived in Oxford in his (not my) Rhodes Scholar days: he’s a smart, affable go-getter–as though someone had bred a race of otherwise totally normal, relatable human beings who were significantly better at talking and school than most other people. To ‘spergy Gates (who mostly hangs out with his own ilk in Techland), this must have seemed like a miracle.

  15. The next new fad is the old fad, head start, re-branded as early education. Proponents have dodged the implications of massive studies indicating that head start did not produce lasting results by arguing that yes, it did not change IQ-like skills such as math and reading ability, but early education, done right, can change emotional quotient (EQ) skills like collaboration, self-control, etc., and “studies show” that EQ skills are important to later outcomes, such as holding a job and avoiding prison.

    • Replies: @anonymous

    but early education, done right, can change emotional quotient (EQ) skills like collaboration, self-control, etc., and “studies show” that EQ skills are important to later outcomes, such as holding a job and avoiding prison.
     
    Head start managed to do this.
  16. @Reg Cæsar

    Math majors avoid it because of its stigma.
     
    Even when it's six stigma?

    You better have Jesus on call!

  17. @Anon
    Statistics is girly math. It's important, useful, and deep. But it's girly. Math majors avoid it because of its stigma. You'll notice that more and more universities are splitting it off into a separate department, "Statistics and Data Science." Math departments launder their advanced statistics courses through names like "applied probability theory" or "stochastic analysis."

    Math: Working in imagined domains explorable by symbol processing where things a certain (TRUE/FALSE if you want to slum it in the classical logic ghetto) and facts can be elicited in good part by syntactical transformation of character strings (“proofs”). You write programs in Coq.

    Statistics: You get the toolings from Math, but now everything is noisier than the Nostromo at sublight, causality is new concept entering the field post-2000, and you actually have to make contact with the real world in a way that may involve getting acquainted with a legal counsel. You write programs in R.

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes

    causality is new concept entering the field post-2000,
     
    That's just a retarded thing to say.

    It would be like me claiming that p-hacking wasn't a known thing until 2019, based on the fact that I had just read this neat paper by some guys as UCSD (great little paper, by the way - worth it just for the reference list).

    Anyway... back to causality...

    Granger was 1969, and his work didn't just emerge out of a clear blue sky. Ronald Fisher wrote extensively in the 1950s on why the link between smoking and cancer was causal, not simply correlation.

    Stat theory has known the difference between correlation and causality since the 19th century (arguably at that point in time it didn't really deserve to be called a body of theory).

    .

    That's unrelated to - and uncorrelated with - the problem that makes it seem as if most statistical work is shit (and I am absolutley in agreement: most of it is shit).

    A very large proportion of people who implement statistical method in their doings don't give a fuck. And that goes across all research disciplines - from medicine/pharma, all the way to the real charlatanry of psycholosophasters and sociologists.

    All they want is to show a 'link' between two things: they learn about p-values (probably from the Help file of whatever desktop app they use) and then they torture the data until they get values < 0.05.

    (Later, reasonably talented statisticians worked out how to establish if an entire field's literature had been finagled in that way: p-hacking became more detectable, even though the tools developed to test for it have low power).

    .

    Likewise, a lot of the current abitrageurs into 'data science' are CompSci people who've done the equivalent of first-semester undergrad Stats... they are blissfully unaware of 'arcana' like orders of integration, and/or the Gauss-Markov conditions - so they produce output that would fail if it was a 3rd year Econometrics assignment. The same is true of most MBA-consultant types, and almost everybody I've ever seen do 'quantitative' policy analysis within government.

    Dissing stats on that basis is real 'baby with the bathwater' stuff.




    References

    Granger, C. (1969). "Investigating Causal Relations by Econometric Models and Cross-spectral Methods". Econometrica. 37 (3): 424–438
  18. I’ve got a better idea:

    Get the US Feral Gov’t out of our children’s education!
    Kill the D.O.E. Let the teachers teach, and let the parents teach. Quit spending my and my neighbors’ money on any of these bullshit programs! Bill Gate can kiss my ass.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    Get the US Feral Gov’t out of our children’s education!
     
    100% correct. Why would anyone imagine that standardizing curricula at the national level would make kids smarter or harder working (pretty much the only two variables of academic achievement.)

    Besides, all popular thinking about education policy is worse than useless because it is so thoroughly infected with the fallacy of composition-- i.e., the idea that Everyone Can Succeed and that we can have No Child Left Below Average.
    , @Anonymous

    I’ve got a better idea:

    Get the US Feral Gov’t out of our children’s education!
    Kill the D.O.E. Let the teachers teach, and let the parents teach. Quit spending my and my neighbors’ money on any of these bullshit programs! Bill Gate can kiss my ass.
     
    This kind of reckless talk will get your doors kicked in in the middle of the night in post-Trump America. The Department of Education has lots of armed special agents and civil rights lawyers in all 50 states.

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/65/b9/48/65b9484b6a835e33d048d18c8e93c421.jpg
    https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.ed.gov%2Fabout%2Foffices%2Flist%2Foig%2Fimages%2Fedoig.jpg
     
    , @Haha
    Your idea, I am afraid, may be too sound to fly. You need to puff it up with fantasy and nonsense to render it airworthy - at least in our times.
  19. @Steve Sailer
    Right, Coleman's idea was to make reading less girl and math more girly.

    Like I said, Bill Gates is not a stupid man, and he liked David Coleman more than most of the other ed reformers who have pitched him.

    Bill Gates is not a stupid man

    Likely not, but in that case he’s irredeemably evil. The Gates Foundation has been pouring billions into Africa with the explicit plan of increasing the number of Africans.

    No one here needs to be told what the implications of four billion Africans are for the world at large. It’s possible that Bill and Melinda are aiming to make it five or six.

    People say that the 20th century was a disaster. It was just preamble.

    • Agree: jim jones, Kylie
    • Replies: @Ed
    Related: WSJ has a story about migrants "rescued" at sea being returned to Libya (oh the humanity!)
    Here is a quote from an African and future Italian:
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/libyan-coast-guard-returns-europe-bound-migrants-to-war-zone-11575723601#comments_sector

    One of them is Musa Abdullah, of Benin, who had paid 3,000 dinars (about $2,100) for a spot on the raft that was intercepted by the Fezzan 658. Mr. Abdullah had been imprisoned in Libya for six months after militiamen stopped him for not having legal documents. In detention, the 28-year-old said, guards beat him until his parents paid a bribe to release him.

    “When they return us to land, they return us to a prison,” Mr. Abdullah said. “And we’ll pay to get out and try again.” He is driven by the stories of those who have made it to Europe, including a friend who recently married. “My dream is to reach Italy,” Mr. Abdullah said. “And marry an Italian woman.”
     
  20. They didn’t just talk states into it. The Obama Education Department gave money to states that came up with improvement plans for their schools. Improvement included curricular changes and everyone knew they wanted states to adopt Common Core.

  21. Thank you for this article.

    Yeah, actual testing in different regions and then fixing and gradual introduction is what mainland China tends to do in the last thirty years or so.

    If Hong Kongers had managed to prove their way works better, thirty years from now it would have been phased in all over the mainland. No patience, these young people. Ruined their own chances.

  22. What should have happened was that Gates would fund Coleman to test different approaches for, say, ten or fifteen years and then roll out what works best.

    Steve,

    What is an approach that you predict/speculate would work?

  23. Coleman went to the funder of Slate, Bill Gates, and told him in effect that school curriculums should be less girly, more like Michael Kinsley’s Slate. For example, don’t assign so many works of fiction in English, assign more nonfiction.

    In saying this, I’m afraid that Mr. Sailer betrays his own reading preferences and limitations, as someone who evidently reads nonfiction copiously but almost exclusively and reads little and studies less of actual literature. Also, I expect that his view has been biased by the kinds of limp-wristed non-fiction that he remembers being assigned to read in school. This is understandable.

    But in fact, depending on what one assigned, literature can be far, far less girly and more masculine than most non-fiction. A right-wing reading list could easily be compiled that would do more for the Western world’s testosterone deficiency in men than zinc supplementation. One simply has to be versed in the field.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Jack Henson
    I kept my copy of Dune inside the copy of Wuthering Heights they forced on me in high school.

    Thinking back, a great deal of assigned literature was feminine. Sarah, Plain and Tall, The Witch of Blackbird Pond, Cheaper by the Dozen, etc.

    I remember books like Johnny Tremain, Rifles for Watie, Where the Red Fern Grows, etc being outliers.

    As far as history goes, even back around the late 90s early aughts, it was "blacks and wimmen made America".

    , @anon
    But in fact, depending on what one assigned, literature can be far, far less girly and more masculine than most non-fiction.

    Can be. But in the real world, high school juniors are reading Handmaid's Tale because required.
    , @Anon

    A right-wing reading list could easily be compiled that would do more for the Western world’s testosterone deficiency in men than zinc supplementation. One simply has to be versed in the field.
     
    How about a list sampling, tough guy? 🏋🏼
    , @Jon
    Can you point me in the direction of a good right-wing reading list? Serious question, I have young kids, so I am always looking for these kinds of things.
    , @sanjoaquinsam

    But in fact, depending on what one assigned, literature can be far, far less girly and more masculine than most non-fiction. A right-wing reading list could easily be compiled...

     

    I'm not trolling. Can you point to such a list?
    , @Desiderius
    This.

    CC was the bullet to the brain of the liberal arts from the very people (the best and brightest) who should have known better.

    Shaking my damn head. You’re better than this, Steve.
  24. @prime noticer
    i didn't comment on the PISA release, and only commented on the NAEP release a few times in Anatoly's threads, but what i saw for the europeans in US and in Europe for those tests, was somewhat encouraging actually.

    in US, i think the public school students were less negatively affected by Common Core than we expected, or at minimum, it's negative effects has passed us, as Common Core has sort of been phased out as yet another education fad. for the 13 year olds in NAEP, Common Core is probably too far in the past to have affected them much. they likely got some of it in grade school but now they're 5 years passed it's main push.

    in europe, based on PISA 2018, i don't think there's much dysgenics happening, for the northwest europeans anyway, less the scandinavians. if you go deep into the report and get the numbers just for the natives, filtering out the immigrant people over the last 50 years, they're actually above 100 wechsler. and also in Canada, they're doing about the same, since core Canadians are all also northwest europeans, less the Celts. in the US, it looks like the europeans are separating into two groups, one group above wechsler 100, and one group below. but, we now have the evidence that US isn't turning into a simple Idiocracy scenario, for the europeans anyway. the smart kids are still getting slightly smarter, in line with what Charles Murray has been tweeting about recently.

    and also in Canada, they’re doing about the same, since core Canadians are all also northwest europeans, less the Celts.

    What is this sentence supposed to mean? Are Celts not northwest Europeans, too?

  25. They stopped teaching skills like Reading, Writing, and Arithmetic long ago and now concentrate on Student Self Esteem. You’re an unemployable moron (well employable in Government and Education maybe) but you feel good about yourself.

  26. A good start to repairing public education would be to eliminate homosexuals from any teaching or administrative position, and then restoring the teaching staff to at least 75% male. A requirement of female teachers would be that they must be at least 40 years old in order to teach.

    I happen to know a quite a few female teachers, from ages 24 up. Every single one of them, without exception, has developed an extremely cynical and hateful attitude towards the students they teach. How many of these women then redirect those feelings toward their own kids?

    As far as CC goes whatever its original intention, the product that was rolled out was a mess of diversity indoctrination and bizarro math formulation. My older daughter’s school switched to it after her third grade. The way students are required to calculate math problems was every bit as over complicated and backward as you’ve might have heard.

    • Replies: @Prof. Woland
    As best as I can tell, there is not a single male teacher in my son's elementary school. It is purely a white women's affair including the hierarchy.

    First of all, why would a man want to work there? You spend your entire career working among hair triggered SJW that are literally indifferent towards men at best, and openly hostile at the worst. Women don't work outdoors, at night, do super hard labor, take risks, or travel much. They need jobs like teaching where they can move along like a herd, grazing, never making a killing but surviving with a job that fits their lifestyle including looking after their own kids. This means these jobs are much more important to women then men who need to work but must have something with higher pay to find a school teacher wife.

    Peter Brimelow covered this in his book a Worm in the Apple. These teachers unions are basically a subsidiary of the Democrat party. Like other organized women's groups they could give a shit about men except to the extent they need to sit on our necks financially. This makes it very easy not to support fund raising or raises for the teachers.
    , @Rosie

    A good start to repairing public education would be to eliminate homosexuals from any teaching or administrative position, and then restoring the teaching staff to at least 75% male. A requirement of female teachers would be that they must be at least 40 years old in order to teach.
     
    Did you not read Steve's article on PISA scores by ethnicity. Nice White lady teachers are doing just fine, thank you.

    Of course, I know that doesn't matter. Facts never do.
  27. Universal compulsory public education is something demonic in and of itself, irrespective of whatever educational fads happen to be passing through. It is no coincidence that the idolatry and perversity of the world-improvers attains to ites fiercest expression exactly here. What’s needed is true skepticism of the entire thing.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  28. “OK, here’s the real story behind the Common Core.”

    LOL, no, Mr. Sailer, that is YOUR concocted story about the genesis of Common Core. Please NOTICE that while I am and remain bitterly opposed to its creation and implementation, it is truly beneath you to put out a Fake News story. I suppose you do need to fill up your coffers, so pulling a Sarah Jeong would serve you well.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Core_State_Standards_Initiative#Background

    • Troll: Clyde, YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @Joe Schmoe
    LOL

    are you cereal?

    You trot out some official version to contradict that there are actual persons with names who promoted the Common Core using their substantial leverage?

    That is just silly.

    Steve is not suggesting that no one wanted it or worked on precursors and prototypes previously. Rather that specific persons brought it to the forefront and promoted it to prominence and actual adoption.
    , @George
    The background section seems to say that Common Core is another educational testing 'fad'. Various educational fads come and go over the last 2 centuries or more. Educational testing (quality control?) 'fads' are constantly being proposed. What makes Common Core exceptional was it was actually implemented, propelled by Mr Coleman et all.

    Interesting reading is John Taylor Gatto's work on the history of education.

    Fun reading on the start of educational fads in the pre-USA in 1642 from Wikipedia. Especially the Old Deluder Satan Law of 1647.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_School_Laws

    Horace Mann creates a school system for the 19th century.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horace_Mann#Education

    Common core still gets page views:
    https://tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&start=2015-07&end=2019-11&pages=Common_Core_State_Standards_Initiative

  29. 1. Let’s replace every schoolbook and teacher training procedure in the United States
    2. Let’s make federal funding dependant on using the new texts
    3. Let’s run it all through one company (Pearson)
    4. Let that one company be in a foreign power (Britain)
    5. Let that foreign power add its psyops to the new textbooks under the guise of “social science”
    6. Let the foreign company take money from other foreign powers like China, Saudi Arabia, and Qatar to add their psyops to the new textbooks
    7. Let’s direct the three letter agencies to identify everyone who isn’t falling for the psyops, and we’ll call it a national security project because our great allies Britain, Saudi Arabia, and Qatar are involved
    8. Let’s direct the Office of Personnel Management to require all federal employees agree with the foreign psyops
    9. Let’s direct the three letter agencies to call all the nonbelievers “white supremacists” and take covert action against them
    10. Let’s hire the same foreign powers who messed with the education system as consultants to investigate white supremacists, and place them in charge of the three letter agencies
    11. Let’s pay al-Qaeda to tell us who they think is a white supremacist so that the three letter agencies can fuck with them, since AQ is already on the National Security Council

  30. I’ve heard attractiveness is more correlated with success than IQ and educational attainment, so the obsession with common core etc may be missing the point. Just restrict immigration so that Norwegian female volleyball players are the only ones allowed.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    May want to add the rest of Scandinavia.
    , @Justvisiting

    I’ve heard attractiveness is more correlated with success than IQ and educational attainment, so the obsession with common core etc may be missing the point.
     
    The "big picture" question is: "What is the purpose of education?"

    In the modern society it appears to be to indoctrinate youth to obey their elite masters.

    Obedience is best taught in a prison camp--no need for schools.
  31. @Anon
    Statistics is girly math. It's important, useful, and deep. But it's girly. Math majors avoid it because of its stigma. You'll notice that more and more universities are splitting it off into a separate department, "Statistics and Data Science." Math departments launder their advanced statistics courses through names like "applied probability theory" or "stochastic analysis."

    Statistics is girly math.

    Yes, get a boyish degree like math. Then go to employers with your boyish credential and watch them yawn. You will not know how to do anything useful, but hey, if somebody needs the one-millionth proof of a math theorem only mathematicians care about, you will be there at the ready!

  32. @Steve Sailer
    Right, Coleman's idea was to make reading less girl and math more girly.

    Like I said, Bill Gates is not a stupid man, and he liked David Coleman more than most of the other ed reformers who have pitched him.

    Coleman’s idea was to make reading less girl and math more girly.

    If true then, this shows they know and understand the average differences between boys and girls and wish to obscure them with carefully selected topics and test items.

    For example, one could construct a test of many and varied items, give it to a group of 50/50 boys and girls and then find the items that both boys and girls missed at the same rate. Then they could create a new “bias free” test by only including those items. I am sure they have thought of this already. But those boys and girls in sufficiently large groups like SAT takers are very stubborn about not missing questions at the same rate, so they have not been able to construct such a test. Same for race, etc. Which is why I suspect you are right that they didn’t test this theory out before they rolled it out.

  33. I am looking forward to educationrealist’s take on the issue.

  34. @Corvinus
    "OK, here’s the real story behind the Common Core."

    LOL, no, Mr. Sailer, that is YOUR concocted story about the genesis of Common Core. Please NOTICE that while I am and remain bitterly opposed to its creation and implementation, it is truly beneath you to put out a Fake News story. I suppose you do need to fill up your coffers, so pulling a Sarah Jeong would serve you well.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Core_State_Standards_Initiative#Background

    LOL

    are you cereal?

    You trot out some official version to contradict that there are actual persons with names who promoted the Common Core using their substantial leverage?

    That is just silly.

    Steve is not suggesting that no one wanted it or worked on precursors and prototypes previously. Rather that specific persons brought it to the forefront and promoted it to prominence and actual adoption.

  35. Speaking of Slate, here’s a slightly old bit about a guy who’s torn up about becoming a ‘rapist’ after his girlfriend retroactively withdrew consent:

    https://slate.com/human-interest/2019/12/girlfriend-rape-advice.html

    The comments are hilarious. While there are a few superlefties in, common sense is not dead, even on the left.

    • Replies: @Lot
    I can’t see any comments in the sea of ads, but I think the “letter” was fiction.
  36. So, Common Core was basically a conspiracy by intelligent centrists to move K-12 education a tiny bit to the right.

    I think the problem that many conservatives had with Common Core was that it de-emphasized fiction (as you mentioned) in elementary school and replaced it with things like history and social studies. Most conservatives like history, but unfortunately, history is one of those subjects that can be easily manipulated to facilitate political agendas and indoctrination by leaving out some facts and emphasizing others. For example, by the time my kids left elementary school, they knew all about Amelia Earhart, but had never heard of Charles Lindbergh. They also spent about as much time on African history as US history.

    It’s true that eight year olds have to be taught simpler history than 15 year olds, but guess which way the simple history that’s taught in elementary school leans. Our state never officially adopted Common Core, but my understanding is that local school boards were influenced by it.

  37. @Henry Canaday
    The next new fad is the old fad, head start, re-branded as early education. Proponents have dodged the implications of massive studies indicating that head start did not produce lasting results by arguing that yes, it did not change IQ-like skills such as math and reading ability, but early education, done right, can change emotional quotient (EQ) skills like collaboration, self-control, etc., and "studies show" that EQ skills are important to later outcomes, such as holding a job and avoiding prison.

    but early education, done right, can change emotional quotient (EQ) skills like collaboration, self-control, etc., and “studies show” that EQ skills are important to later outcomes, such as holding a job and avoiding prison.

    Head start managed to do this.

  38. What happened? Black people happened.

  39. OT: Norwegians finally get those statistics they’ve been asking for:

    Fearful Norwegians Wonder: Are ‘Swedish Conditions’ Coming to the Streets of Oslo?

    …The country’s libertarian Progress Party (Fremskrittspartiet) has repeatedly asked the country’s statistical agency to report on the statistical relationship between crime and country of origin. In the past, Statistics Norway refused, saying that such a task was “beyond its capacity.”

    But this year, for the first time, such a report was published. And the numbers were clear: Immigrants from certain backgrounds—particularly Palestinians, Iraqis and Afghanis—were many times more likely to commit violent crimes than other Norwegians (including other immigrant groups). In 65 out of 80 crime categories, non-Norwegians were over-represented. The largest discrepancy was in regard to domestic violence: Immigrants from non-Western countries were found to be eight times more likely to be charged for such crimes. Rape and murder were also heavily skewed toward these immigrant groups. Worryingly, the figures showed that second-generation immigrants were more likely to be criminals than their parents. [See Absimilation, the Second Generation Problem]

  40. @Corvinus
    "OK, here’s the real story behind the Common Core."

    LOL, no, Mr. Sailer, that is YOUR concocted story about the genesis of Common Core. Please NOTICE that while I am and remain bitterly opposed to its creation and implementation, it is truly beneath you to put out a Fake News story. I suppose you do need to fill up your coffers, so pulling a Sarah Jeong would serve you well.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Core_State_Standards_Initiative#Background

    The background section seems to say that Common Core is another educational testing ‘fad’. Various educational fads come and go over the last 2 centuries or more. Educational testing (quality control?) ‘fads’ are constantly being proposed. What makes Common Core exceptional was it was actually implemented, propelled by Mr Coleman et all.

    Interesting reading is John Taylor Gatto’s work on the history of education.

    Fun reading on the start of educational fads in the pre-USA in 1642 from Wikipedia. Especially the Old Deluder Satan Law of 1647.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_School_Laws

    Horace Mann creates a school system for the 19th century.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horace_Mann#Education

    Common core still gets page views:
    https://tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&start=2015-07&end=2019-11&pages=Common_Core_State_Standards_Initiative

  41. Jebby Bush got tripped up on immigration policy and common core — among a dozen other things — when he ran for president.

    Trump and the Republican Party base voters and activists were hammering Jebby Bush for his support of Common Core.

    Trump in 2015:

    He also continued his criticism of former Florida governor Jeb Bush. “Bush is weak on immigration and he’s heavy in favor of Common Core, and I say the last thing we need is another Bush,” said Trump.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/04/27/why-donald-trumps-campaign-push-is-different-this-time-around/

    Tweets from 2015:

  42. Common Core, shmommon core. In grade school, in the actual classes, the main concern of the smart high-achieving nerdy kids is to a) not get beaten up by retards and b) figure out how to pass the incredibly boring wasted time with the rest of the criminals, thugs, and morons, before you could get out of school and then go to the library or go back home, where you could actually learn something. Or even just play roller hockey, you literally learn more practical lessons about life playing a rough game of street roller hockey, than you do in an American grade school.

    Our entire educational establishment runs straight into the rocks every single time, because it is founded on the pathological refusal to forthrightly state a few obvious truths which nobody wants to admit:

    a) White kids sort themselves out fairly quickly in school, into the bright kids who don’t really need a teacher to teach them anything, the library will do just fine; the baseline normie competent kids who could use a little structure and encouragement; and the kids who don’t really need to be educated beyond the absolute basics, because they’re supposed to be doing the jobs that are now instead being done by illegal Mixtec immigrants.

    b) nobody wants to flat-out admit the obvious truth that negro children should never, ever, EVER be sent to the same schools as White children. It is an automatic disaster, it is obvious to all concerned. Diversity is not our strength, it is (((their))) strength. And because the educational establishment is controlled by certain (((people))) who have both institutionally insulated themselves from the problem, and have an identifiable (((stake))) in using negroes as a social, political, economic, and biological weapon against their sworn enemies the white goyim, the thing can never be brought up and discussed frankly in public, because Holocaust or some other nonsense.

    Negroes are observably lower-IQ and higher testosterone, which alters their children’s behavior in obviously observable ways in a schoolroom context; they have different and non-compatible familial and parenting strategies compared to White families; they are for historical and anthropological reasons, culturally maladapted to industrial and post-industrial societal configurations; they have a folk culture and a street culture which teaches them to be historical and existential enemies of their erstwhile compatriots; they are oversexed, culturally, physically and psychologically, and generally reach sexual maturity earlier than White students, and are exposed from birth to a bizarre acculturation that encourages them to seek out and sexually assault White girls, which makes White parents, um, a little uneasy, for reasons which everybody knows but no one can say in public.

    c) What Asians, Hispanics, subcons and Mohameddans want is irrelevant, because none of them should even be here in the first place.

    If we could actually speak publicly and frankly about these matters without constant (((moderation))) from our (((betters))), who have a vested interest in preventing this discussion, then the issues could be rationally settled quick smart.

    • Agree: OverCommenter, MBlanc46
    • Replies: @Jack D
    Putting aside your stark raving mad anti-Semitism (any sane Jewish person doesn't want to bring down the temple on the goyim because they are in the same building - Samson did it only as a last ditch measure of desperation after that shiksa ruined his life) you are almost right - MOST blacks cannot be educated in the same setting as whites. However, there is a small % that can. At the elementary level you can take the top 10 or 15% of blacks without too much trouble. By the high school years, you can only find maybe 5% who could sit in the same classroom and not be lost as the curriculum gets tougher. In a large city with a large black population you can gather all the talented tenth blacks together in magnet schools with an equal number of whites and Asians and still have education going on.

    What Asians, Hispanics, subcons and Mohameddans want is irrelevant, because none of them should even be here in the first place.

     

    Maybe you are right and they shouldn't but they are - you can't just dismiss people with a handwave like that. For example, in LA, 75% of the students are Hispanic and 10% of the student population is Non-Hispanic white, so whites are the ones who are irrelevant at this point. They are here and they are going to be here for the rest of their long lives (most of them are American born and not deportable unless we change the Constitution) and either our society educates them in some fashion or else they are going to be an even bigger problem than they would be otherwise.
    , @Joe Schmoe
    "negro children should never, ever, EVER be sent to the same schools as White children."

    Nah, any black kid who can behave is fine, even if he isn't bright at all. Even if a school is 100% black, any nice kid deserves to be in a class without abuse. All abusive and disruptive students need to be removed to special rooms without contact with the nicer kids. This is just human decency. I think that parents should have to pay fines and/or do community service with their kids in order for an offending student to earn his way back into a good classroom. The student is legally entitled to a free, appropriate public education. If he is disruptive, then a special room is appropriate for him.
  43. “The more any quantitative social indicator is used for social decision-making, the more subject it will be to corruption pressures and the more apt it will be to distort and corrupt the social processes it is intended to monitor.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campbell%27s_law

    25 Years of Teaching Fads and Bad Educational Science
    https://www.teachertoolkit.co.uk/2016/07/10/education-fads/

  44. @Redneck farmer
    I recall reading that a big part of the problem with Common Core was instructions to teachers. Various ways to teach the material was given, "for students different learning styles". The instructions inferred you should use all the methods.
    It also didn't help that a lot of the critics forgot what school was like when they attended.

    I agree. Many teachers also struggle with how to teach the new methods, since we did not learn math this way. Also their parents struggle with it and cannot help the students with the homework, because they were never taught math this way.

    With the common core math curriculum we have to teach the concepts and make the students use more models in an attempt to help their conceptual understanding. But the bottom 20% of the students get even more frustrated with math and we see their performance has been worse, because they get very confused by the conceptual concepts and thus get more frustrated and we have less time to review the equations to solve the problems.

    The common core curriculum adds many models and concepts to the lesson plans , which means we spend less time teaching the algorithms and less time practicing doing math problems, more time drawing models and reading word problems. A few students benefit from common core and but more students struggle and get frustrated , thus performing worse. Since we only have the same amount of time in the class to teach math , we end up spending less time doing math problems and this makes it more difficult to teach, as we have more material to cover in the same time frame each day. To get proper lessons in the concepts and models we would need additional classroom time to teach the additional material.

  45. How is it that so few people notice the resemblance of the Common Core fiasco of today and the New Math fiasco of the ’60’s?

    Here’s Tom Lehrer’s take on it:

    • Replies: @KR
    I was a victim of new math -- 1970s. It took two years of studying with my physicist father to regain the years I had lost.
  46. @Achmed E. Newman
    I've got a better idea:

    Get the US Feral Gov't out of our children's education!
    Kill the D.O.E. Let the teachers teach, and let the parents teach. Quit spending my and my neighbors' money on any of these bullshit programs! Bill Gate can kiss my ass.

    Get the US Feral Gov’t out of our children’s education!

    100% correct. Why would anyone imagine that standardizing curricula at the national level would make kids smarter or harder working (pretty much the only two variables of academic achievement.)

    Besides, all popular thinking about education policy is worse than useless because it is so thoroughly infected with the fallacy of composition– i.e., the idea that Everyone Can Succeed and that we can have No Child Left Below Average.

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    Lake Wobegon is filled to the brim with Kool-Aid.
    , @Alden
    Long, long, before Common Core the 50 state education departments had a common curriculum and common methods. They all used similar books and materials from the same publishers. The education teachers received was similar.

    There wasn’t much difference in academic and vocational subjects. Algebra is algebra typing is typing auto shop is auto shop writing essays reading there was little difference in the different states.

    Whatever difference there was was in non academics. Physical punishment in the south not in the north.

    Most of the academics are centuries old. Before 1800 paper and books were expensive. The teachers used the black board the kids used horn books and slates instead of paper and shared text books.


    Then books and paper became cheap so books were used. They were even cheap enough the kids could take them home and do homework by electric light.

    Now the fashion is to discard textbooks and just use lesson plans and handout sheets. The federal DOE is just a full employment program for black, Hispanic and White feminazis. Other than ideological indoctrination, it’s main purpose is to churn and stir things around to maintain the illusion they are doing something

    The DOE is like some full employment program. Build a road, tear it up and rebuild it every few years just to keep up the unemployment figures low.

  47. The head of our IT dept is a woman from China. She lives in Fremont, CA. It is a great district to be a teacher in because most of the students are Chinese and Indian and very obedient and respectful.

    A few weeks ago she told me that a parent of a student in her son’s third grade class had called her to report that their kids were being taught simple arithmetic incorrectly. She asked her son to do a few exercises and saw that he was, indeed, doing them incorrectly. She called the teacher and told her what she was doing was wrong and that she needed to do it right. She later asked her son if the teacher had corrected the class and was told that she had not.

    In the city wherein I reside, the only conservative voice of reason in the local newspaper’s Op-eds is one of our high school math teachers. It is very difficult to find decent math teachers here and that is the only reason he still has his job. If he was an English teacher he would have been driven out long ago.

    • Replies: @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    "...their kids were being taught simple arithmetic incorrectly. She asked her son to do a few exercises and saw that he was, indeed, doing them incorrectly."

    Michelle, Your report is interesting but lacking substance. What exactly was incorrect? Getting a wrong answer? Using an unjustified algorithm to get the answer? Details, please -- with an example.
  48. Common Core failed because it focussed too much on testing, turning students and teachers into measurements of learning rather than teachers and learners.

    The measurements wers obsessive, as well as the standards. It was despised by everyone.

    The only Common Core was how much it was despised by students, teachers, and parents alike.

    When the goal of education becomes proving that people are learning, rather than learning, people will learn less. That has always been the problem with the education system in America.

    Public education is torture. Public schools are concentration camps and torture chambers and an introduction into American fascism.

    • Replies: @Ron Mexico
    "Public education is torture. Public schools are concentration camps and torture chambers and an introduction into American fascism."
    Agreed! Public schools, in general, are child abuse.
  49. I was supporting the standards movement back when Ed Hirsch was active, but something happened to it, because if all turned into something else unrecognizable. Hirsch was opposed to fads. He said k-12 students needed facts, not concepts. CC was everything he opposed.

    So I’ve done a 180 and think it ought to be left to the states after all. Some regions’ kids are just slower than others. Use the methods that work best on them and to hell with national standards, esp when they’ve been hijacked by the usual suspects anyway.

  50. @karsten

    Coleman went to the funder of Slate, Bill Gates, and told him in effect that school curriculums should be less girly, more like Michael Kinsley’s Slate. For example, don’t assign so many works of fiction in English, assign more nonfiction.
     
    In saying this, I'm afraid that Mr. Sailer betrays his own reading preferences and limitations, as someone who evidently reads nonfiction copiously but almost exclusively and reads little and studies less of actual literature. Also, I expect that his view has been biased by the kinds of limp-wristed non-fiction that he remembers being assigned to read in school. This is understandable.

    But in fact, depending on what one assigned, literature can be far, far less girly and more masculine than most non-fiction. A right-wing reading list could easily be compiled that would do more for the Western world's testosterone deficiency in men than zinc supplementation. One simply has to be versed in the field.

    I kept my copy of Dune inside the copy of Wuthering Heights they forced on me in high school.

    Thinking back, a great deal of assigned literature was feminine. Sarah, Plain and Tall, The Witch of Blackbird Pond, Cheaper by the Dozen, etc.

    I remember books like Johnny Tremain, Rifles for Watie, Where the Red Fern Grows, etc being outliers.

    As far as history goes, even back around the late 90s early aughts, it was “blacks and wimmen made America”.

    • Replies: @Prof. Woland
    Elementary school children and older all spend way too much time in front of computers. Many have increasingly shortened attention spans and they don't like to read books. This is particularly true with the boys and it is particularly true with fiction. As early as 3-4 grade, children are already starting to distinguish between what they like and don't like. When you have feminist teachers shoving gynocentric literature down their throats you end up with boys who end up hating school. But that is a feature not a bug. And it only gets worse as they get older.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    Thinking back, a great deal of assigned literature was feminine. Sarah, Plain and Tall, The Witch of Blackbird Pond, Cheaper by the Dozen, etc.
     
    Cheaper By the Dozen was about a fecund (even by the era's standards) family led by a patriarch obsessed with efficiency in factories. That's hardly "feminine", unless you're comparing it to swashbuckling and the like.
  51. @El Dato
    You get the impression of the Amoeba of Eduacshion trying to break out of its clay trap and failing repeatedly.

    American children would read more nonfiction
     
    A detailed overview of the economic evolution of Great Britain from the Thatcherite perspective would be good.

    write better essays
     
    Uh huh.

    and understand key mathematical concepts, instead of just mechanically solving equations.
     
    "Understanding" is like learning to navigate, possibly literally so.

    Success at "mechanically solving equations" would be a strong step towards that goal. Myself, I didn't grok all the "solving" idea until uni. Then it occurred to me that one just throws constraints at large spaces and tries to make the constraints palatable by whatever means necessary. Means which are often in short supply once you go beyond triangles, quadrilaterals and a d/dx or two.

    100% certainty says the teachers don't get the "key mathematical concepts" either.

    https://i.imgur.com/ElTdjEQ.jpg

    100% certainty says the teachers don’t get the “key mathematical concepts” either.

    True. And not just for Math and hard science, either. Has anyone given the Common Core competency tests to the teachers themselves?

  52. @SFG
    Speaking of Slate, here's a slightly old bit about a guy who's torn up about becoming a 'rapist' after his girlfriend retroactively withdrew consent:

    https://slate.com/human-interest/2019/12/girlfriend-rape-advice.html

    The comments are hilarious. While there are a few superlefties in, common sense is not dead, even on the left.

    I can’t see any comments in the sea of ads, but I think the “letter” was fiction.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    You mean this is like the SJW version of Letters to Penthouse? I guess so because the woman who plays the "Dear Abby" role is "Stoya" who is a porn star (a very flat chested porn star) - who better to ask about sex?

    As for the comments, the #1 comment was this, which I thought was a good one and decidedly non-feminist:

    You let your girlfriend gaslight you into thinking you raped her. You didn't. It's appropriate to consider your past actions and learn from them/ feel regret, but you didn't rape her and she's leveraging your guilt to have total control of the relationship.
     
    Other top comments:

    Relabeling incidents of less-than-enthusiastic sex as "rape" diminishes the seriousness of actual forcible or coerced sexual activity.

    She's an adult and you didn't threaten her and she consented. So it isn't rape... this is just some kind of attention-seeking self-flagellation.

    Apparently the average Slate reader (who is pretty Leftist nowadays) is more sane than the average college Sex Crimes Kangaroo Tribunal nowadays.
    , @Neil Templeton
    You have to click the Comment button. I agree, it's satire - letter and advice. Entertaining, nevertheless.
  53. If the government needs to forcibly seize control of your child’s mind for 7 hours a day, five days a week just so that they can survive in America, people must ask, What Is Wrong With America?!

    It’s one of the reasons why I didn’t have children. This country is just one giant torture chamber and concentration camp!

  54. @El Dato
    You get the impression of the Amoeba of Eduacshion trying to break out of its clay trap and failing repeatedly.

    American children would read more nonfiction
     
    A detailed overview of the economic evolution of Great Britain from the Thatcherite perspective would be good.

    write better essays
     
    Uh huh.

    and understand key mathematical concepts, instead of just mechanically solving equations.
     
    "Understanding" is like learning to navigate, possibly literally so.

    Success at "mechanically solving equations" would be a strong step towards that goal. Myself, I didn't grok all the "solving" idea until uni. Then it occurred to me that one just throws constraints at large spaces and tries to make the constraints palatable by whatever means necessary. Means which are often in short supply once you go beyond triangles, quadrilaterals and a d/dx or two.

    100% certainty says the teachers don't get the "key mathematical concepts" either.

    https://i.imgur.com/ElTdjEQ.jpg

    El Dato,

    What! The instant thought that popped into my noggin as I gazed over you visuals of the Teutuls, Jr & Sr, was “OK Boomer”. At the party my young teen daughter hosted at the house last Monday ago, OK Boomer was term du jour. I am certain none of the youth were aware of the intended/proper context, if there is such, but it was amusing. I would guess from their utilization Boomer applies to all those beyond their teens.

    Bill Gates made at minimum a change from public to private school as a youth. Seems he was a bit taken aback by the diversity in curriculum between them. May be why he was enamored with the idea of a “common core”? He has also said, during his time at public school at least, that he read his textbooks within the 1st week, and “goofed off” for the remainder of the course/year.

    Judging from his ~2M subscriber YouTube channel, you could make an argument that like a lot of people of the current mindset he is for a common core of student thought, and a diversity of student color. And maybe a bit like Oprah in search of the “great (not white) hope for humanity” often looks to find it or them in far flung exotic lands, as it seem so elusive here in America. Fortunately, for him at least, he appears to have no aversion to failure.

    Could be it’s all just a bit of misdirection, all this public African/African American focused effort a screen to shield him from the real, effective, works he most certainly must be undertaking; supplying high intellect by DNA children with similar unlimited resources.

    BTW my daughters schoolbook texts always have been, and remain up to this day, of the Common Core variety.

  55. “So, Common Core was basically a conspiracy by intelligent centrists to move K-12 education a tiny bit to the right.”

    Bill Gates is a centrist in your mind? What conservative/centrist position has he ever supported? Oh let me guess, the billionaire open borders zealot can really get behind the GoP platform of low taxes and infinity H1B visas, right? Woah, such conservatism!! The top story on Slate.com right now is “Biden or Buttigeig” and yet here you are claiming they inspired shifting the education system to the right, am I understanding that correctly?

    Why is the answer to the question about America’s failing industry, institutions and education never “the changing demographics”? “Diversity is our greatest strength” is always flouted and touted, and yet education in America has never been worse. I guess we just need to add tacos to lunch menus, clearly “good” food is the only solution to any social problem. Look at all this nonsense you have to believe in order to make your world view tenable. You know it’s going to be funny in the future the insane excuses people like you will have to invent in order to explain why a less than 50% white America barely functions, and more closely resembles South America than Europe.

    • Agree: Houston 1992
    • Replies: @anon
    “Diversity is our greatest strength” is always flouted and touted,

    From a 1992 speech by Dan Quayle. Probably the Woke don't have a clue about him.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    ...low taxes and infinity H1B visas, right? Woah, such conservatism!!
     
    If "low taxes" isn't a conservative position, I don't know what is. It's not the only conservative position, but it's pretty basic.

    https://www.latterdayconservative.com/articles/history-of-the-16th-amendment/

    https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2001/tracing-opposition-taxes-america

    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/11/26/tax-time
  56. @karsten

    Coleman went to the funder of Slate, Bill Gates, and told him in effect that school curriculums should be less girly, more like Michael Kinsley’s Slate. For example, don’t assign so many works of fiction in English, assign more nonfiction.
     
    In saying this, I'm afraid that Mr. Sailer betrays his own reading preferences and limitations, as someone who evidently reads nonfiction copiously but almost exclusively and reads little and studies less of actual literature. Also, I expect that his view has been biased by the kinds of limp-wristed non-fiction that he remembers being assigned to read in school. This is understandable.

    But in fact, depending on what one assigned, literature can be far, far less girly and more masculine than most non-fiction. A right-wing reading list could easily be compiled that would do more for the Western world's testosterone deficiency in men than zinc supplementation. One simply has to be versed in the field.

    But in fact, depending on what one assigned, literature can be far, far less girly and more masculine than most non-fiction.

    Can be. But in the real world, high school juniors are reading Handmaid’s Tale because required.

    • Replies: @karsten

    Can be. But in the real world, high school juniors are reading Handmaid’s Tale because required.
     
    Unfortunately true.

    Homeschooling or, far better, a truly separate, dissident school system is the only solution.
    , @Joe Schmoe

    in the real world, high school juniors are reading Handmaid’s Tale because required.
     
    Now that is abuse
  57. @Hypnotoad666

    Get the US Feral Gov’t out of our children’s education!
     
    100% correct. Why would anyone imagine that standardizing curricula at the national level would make kids smarter or harder working (pretty much the only two variables of academic achievement.)

    Besides, all popular thinking about education policy is worse than useless because it is so thoroughly infected with the fallacy of composition-- i.e., the idea that Everyone Can Succeed and that we can have No Child Left Below Average.

    Lake Wobegon is filled to the brim with Kool-Aid.

  58. John Taylor Gatto had a lot of good ideas.

  59. @Anon
    Statistics is girly math. It's important, useful, and deep. But it's girly. Math majors avoid it because of its stigma. You'll notice that more and more universities are splitting it off into a separate department, "Statistics and Data Science." Math departments launder their advanced statistics courses through names like "applied probability theory" or "stochastic analysis."

    More jobs require a knowledge of statistics than algebra, geometry, or calculus. You increase your chances to get a job if you know statistics.

  60. @Anon
    Statistics is girly math. It's important, useful, and deep. But it's girly. Math majors avoid it because of its stigma. You'll notice that more and more universities are splitting it off into a separate department, "Statistics and Data Science." Math departments launder their advanced statistics courses through names like "applied probability theory" or "stochastic analysis."

    Please explain “girly” to us. I did not know there was such an adjective. Please give an accurate expanation.

  61. @Hypnotoad666

    Get the US Feral Gov’t out of our children’s education!
     
    100% correct. Why would anyone imagine that standardizing curricula at the national level would make kids smarter or harder working (pretty much the only two variables of academic achievement.)

    Besides, all popular thinking about education policy is worse than useless because it is so thoroughly infected with the fallacy of composition-- i.e., the idea that Everyone Can Succeed and that we can have No Child Left Below Average.

    Long, long, before Common Core the 50 state education departments had a common curriculum and common methods. They all used similar books and materials from the same publishers. The education teachers received was similar.

    There wasn’t much difference in academic and vocational subjects. Algebra is algebra typing is typing auto shop is auto shop writing essays reading there was little difference in the different states.

    Whatever difference there was was in non academics. Physical punishment in the south not in the north.

    Most of the academics are centuries old. Before 1800 paper and books were expensive. The teachers used the black board the kids used horn books and slates instead of paper and shared text books.

    Then books and paper became cheap so books were used. They were even cheap enough the kids could take them home and do homework by electric light.

    Now the fashion is to discard textbooks and just use lesson plans and handout sheets. The federal DOE is just a full employment program for black, Hispanic and White feminazis. Other than ideological indoctrination, it’s main purpose is to churn and stir things around to maintain the illusion they are doing something

    The DOE is like some full employment program. Build a road, tear it up and rebuild it every few years just to keep up the unemployment figures low.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob, Clyde
  62. As persuasive and sociable as Coleman is, I don’t think that he is even capable of understanding how dumb the average kid is, now that 1/2 the children in America are non-white. Also these not very bright children are increasingly being taught by not very bright teachers.

    Something like Common Core could have worked if it was confined to the upper 50% of the population (with the lower 50% taught basic reading and writing skills) but the upper 50% of the population is mostly white and Asian and the lower 50% is more black and brown so any attempt to separate the two populations or teach them a different curriculum would be instantly condemned as racis’. We know that EVERY black child in the ghetto is capable of becoming a doctor or a nuclear scientist – all they need is for society to be less racis’ and maybe to get a little extra help.

    Does anyone in education do what is called “evidence based medicine” in the medical field? Does anyone study what is done in classrooms in Estonia or Singapore or Shanghai? Not the these methods would necessarily work in America for the reasons stated above. Has anyone studied national PISA scores to see who is punching above their weight class once you adjust for race and to see what they are doing in those countries?

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    Evidence based instruction is the term you're looking for, I believe. Also, HBD doesn't exist, so we can't adjust for race. As a fellow iSteve reader, you ought to know that's how the establishment thinks, Jack!
  63. @Steve Sailer
    Right, Coleman's idea was to make reading less girl and math more girly.

    Like I said, Bill Gates is not a stupid man, and he liked David Coleman more than most of the other ed reformers who have pitched him.

    Gates knows that charity is an excellent way to hide your corruption and evil. Charities serve as useful fronts for money -laundering, bribery, human trafficking, and other nefarious deeds.

    As is obvious from the Clintons (with whom Gates partied on Epstein’s sex slave island) and their clearly-a-bribery-and -money-laundering front the Clinton Foundation.

    Or with the Vatican Bank scandal bank back in the 1970s, where a crooked (and Freemason) banker used his position running the Vatican’s charity holdings company (which wasn’t technically supposed to be a bank, as it wasn’t supposed to lend out at interest, only to fund Vatican-blessed charity activities) to launder Mafia money, and only got caught when his investments of the money turned sour and the Mafia came calling for their dough.

    So Gates giving some pittance (for him) to another obviously-going-to-fail educational fad was worth it, as it covered up whatever real evil he was doing in the charity

    • Replies: @Eagle Eye

    Gates knows that charity is an excellent way to hide your corruption and evil. Charities serve as useful fronts for money -laundering, bribery, human trafficking, and other nefarious deeds.
     
    There are commercial companies making a lot of money providing advice and services in the area of "strategic philanthropy."
  64. @South Texas Guy

    Hirsch’s old Core Knowledge idea that to improve reading comprehension, we should teach kids more facts so ignorance won’t get as much in the way of comprehension.
     

    But that’s not the way anything happens in the faddish ed biz. Instead, they just started their own fad with, as far as I can tell, zero testing and talked 40 states into adopting it wholesale.
     
    Back when this thing came into vogue, I was still a beat reporter, and several principals I knew (solid, not ed. nutjobs) thought it would help out. (BTW, it never amazes me to hear teachers, principals, etc. talk about their jobs as if they are on the front line in Afghanistan.) (BTW, ex teacher).

    Simple fix. 1) impose more discipline, 2) don't let school principals with pushing problems down the line, 3) don't let slack ass parents get off easy when they stick for their Finkelstein Shit Kids, 4) Most importantly, track students by IQ (not an exact science, but close enough), and teach them at their level. I can't tell you about the number of times times I've had to deal with dumbass students, and their parent who claim 'but he's smart.'

    Anyone with a sub 90 IQ can only do basic math, and basic grammar. Forcing them to take both algebra course plus geometry is a waste of time. Same goes for advanced literary study, or history.

    Anyone with a sub 90 IQ can only do basic math, and basic grammar. Forcing them to take both algebra course plus geometry is a waste of time. Same goes for advanced literary study, or history.

    No no, everyone should go to college. Especially blacks. Everyone is above average now.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Yes, and you miss a crucial step: let's make sure that the teacher introducing them to this unfamiliar and challenging topic slurs a tidy minimum of English through a heavy accent, has the bedside manner of a reptile, and is incapable of deviating from the text.
    , @BenKenobi
    Sure we lose social capital with every immigrant, but we make up for it in volume!
  65. @The Alarmist
    The problem with Common Core is that it's much too common for me.

    The problem with Common Core is that it leaves a schoolchild qualified to be only a common whore.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    Common Core crashed on the common corps.
  66. @TelfoedJohn
    I’ve heard attractiveness is more correlated with success than IQ and educational attainment, so the obsession with common core etc may be missing the point. Just restrict immigration so that Norwegian female volleyball players are the only ones allowed.

    May want to add the rest of Scandinavia.

  67. You can bet a ruthless and near-autist like Gates believes in a lot of anti-woke truths about race and sex and thus knew all along this crap wouldn’t work.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    Rest assured that Gates knows these truths but that his wife either doesn't know or want to know and that she wears the pants in that particular operation (also known as their family)!
    , @Anon
    I think it was always his wife's hobbyhorse and he just went along. Women tend to be less realistic about how dumb blacks and Hispanics are.
  68. @William Badwhite

    Anyone with a sub 90 IQ can only do basic math, and basic grammar. Forcing them to take both algebra course plus geometry is a waste of time. Same goes for advanced literary study, or history.
     
    No no, everyone should go to college. Especially blacks. Everyone is above average now.

    Yes, and you miss a crucial step: let’s make sure that the teacher introducing them to this unfamiliar and challenging topic slurs a tidy minimum of English through a heavy accent, has the bedside manner of a reptile, and is incapable of deviating from the text.

  69. @William Badwhite

    Anyone with a sub 90 IQ can only do basic math, and basic grammar. Forcing them to take both algebra course plus geometry is a waste of time. Same goes for advanced literary study, or history.
     
    No no, everyone should go to college. Especially blacks. Everyone is above average now.

    Sure we lose social capital with every immigrant, but we make up for it in volume!

  70. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    Common Core, shmommon core. In grade school, in the actual classes, the main concern of the smart high-achieving nerdy kids is to a) not get beaten up by retards and b) figure out how to pass the incredibly boring wasted time with the rest of the criminals, thugs, and morons, before you could get out of school and then go to the library or go back home, where you could actually learn something. Or even just play roller hockey, you literally learn more practical lessons about life playing a rough game of street roller hockey, than you do in an American grade school.

    Our entire educational establishment runs straight into the rocks every single time, because it is founded on the pathological refusal to forthrightly state a few obvious truths which nobody wants to admit:

    a) White kids sort themselves out fairly quickly in school, into the bright kids who don't really need a teacher to teach them anything, the library will do just fine; the baseline normie competent kids who could use a little structure and encouragement; and the kids who don't really need to be educated beyond the absolute basics, because they're supposed to be doing the jobs that are now instead being done by illegal Mixtec immigrants.

    b) nobody wants to flat-out admit the obvious truth that negro children should never, ever, EVER be sent to the same schools as White children. It is an automatic disaster, it is obvious to all concerned. Diversity is not our strength, it is (((their))) strength. And because the educational establishment is controlled by certain (((people))) who have both institutionally insulated themselves from the problem, and have an identifiable (((stake))) in using negroes as a social, political, economic, and biological weapon against their sworn enemies the white goyim, the thing can never be brought up and discussed frankly in public, because Holocaust or some other nonsense.

    Negroes are observably lower-IQ and higher testosterone, which alters their children's behavior in obviously observable ways in a schoolroom context; they have different and non-compatible familial and parenting strategies compared to White families; they are for historical and anthropological reasons, culturally maladapted to industrial and post-industrial societal configurations; they have a folk culture and a street culture which teaches them to be historical and existential enemies of their erstwhile compatriots; they are oversexed, culturally, physically and psychologically, and generally reach sexual maturity earlier than White students, and are exposed from birth to a bizarre acculturation that encourages them to seek out and sexually assault White girls, which makes White parents, um, a little uneasy, for reasons which everybody knows but no one can say in public.

    c) What Asians, Hispanics, subcons and Mohameddans want is irrelevant, because none of them should even be here in the first place.

    If we could actually speak publicly and frankly about these matters without constant (((moderation))) from our (((betters))), who have a vested interest in preventing this discussion, then the issues could be rationally settled quick smart.

    Putting aside your stark raving mad anti-Semitism (any sane Jewish person doesn’t want to bring down the temple on the goyim because they are in the same building – Samson did it only as a last ditch measure of desperation after that shiksa ruined his life) you are almost right – MOST blacks cannot be educated in the same setting as whites. However, there is a small % that can. At the elementary level you can take the top 10 or 15% of blacks without too much trouble. By the high school years, you can only find maybe 5% who could sit in the same classroom and not be lost as the curriculum gets tougher. In a large city with a large black population you can gather all the talented tenth blacks together in magnet schools with an equal number of whites and Asians and still have education going on.

    What Asians, Hispanics, subcons and Mohameddans want is irrelevant, because none of them should even be here in the first place.

    Maybe you are right and they shouldn’t but they are – you can’t just dismiss people with a handwave like that. For example, in LA, 75% of the students are Hispanic and 10% of the student population is Non-Hispanic white, so whites are the ones who are irrelevant at this point. They are here and they are going to be here for the rest of their long lives (most of them are American born and not deportable unless we change the Constitution) and either our society educates them in some fashion or else they are going to be an even bigger problem than they would be otherwise.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Putting aside your stark raving mad anti-Semitism (any sane Jewish person doesn’t want to bring down the temple on the goyim because they are in the same building – Samson did it only as a last ditch measure of desperation after that shiksa ruined his life)

    I guess by your definition it is insane Jewish people wanting to bring down the temple on the goyim. But the insane seem to have the power and perhaps the majority!

    Delilah may have been something of a Philistine Esther. But is there any evidence she was not Jewish?
    , @MikeatMikedotMike
    It is amusing to watch you both accept recognizable patterns within the negro race and then reject obviously recognizable patterns within the Ashkenazi race, within the very same sentence.
    , @Jenner Ickham Errican

    any sane Jewish person
     
    Oy, there’s the rub! Jews tend to be neurotic and masochistic. Goading the goyim is a favorite way to scratch that self-destructive itch.
    , @MBlanc46
    The bigger problems are coming. Educate them, don’t educate them. Whites are going to have to fight them, separate from them, or be crushed by them.
  71. @Jack D
    As persuasive and sociable as Coleman is, I don't think that he is even capable of understanding how dumb the average kid is, now that 1/2 the children in America are non-white. Also these not very bright children are increasingly being taught by not very bright teachers.

    Something like Common Core could have worked if it was confined to the upper 50% of the population (with the lower 50% taught basic reading and writing skills) but the upper 50% of the population is mostly white and Asian and the lower 50% is more black and brown so any attempt to separate the two populations or teach them a different curriculum would be instantly condemned as racis'. We know that EVERY black child in the ghetto is capable of becoming a doctor or a nuclear scientist - all they need is for society to be less racis' and maybe to get a little extra help.

    Does anyone in education do what is called "evidence based medicine" in the medical field? Does anyone study what is done in classrooms in Estonia or Singapore or Shanghai? Not the these methods would necessarily work in America for the reasons stated above. Has anyone studied national PISA scores to see who is punching above their weight class once you adjust for race and to see what they are doing in those countries?

    Evidence based instruction is the term you’re looking for, I believe. Also, HBD doesn’t exist, so we can’t adjust for race. As a fellow iSteve reader, you ought to know that’s how the establishment thinks, Jack!

  72. @Lot
    I can’t see any comments in the sea of ads, but I think the “letter” was fiction.

    You mean this is like the SJW version of Letters to Penthouse? I guess so because the woman who plays the “Dear Abby” role is “Stoya” who is a porn star (a very flat chested porn star) – who better to ask about sex?

    As for the comments, the #1 comment was this, which I thought was a good one and decidedly non-feminist:

    You let your girlfriend gaslight you into thinking you raped her. You didn’t. It’s appropriate to consider your past actions and learn from them/ feel regret, but you didn’t rape her and she’s leveraging your guilt to have total control of the relationship.

    Other top comments:

    Relabeling incidents of less-than-enthusiastic sex as “rape” diminishes the seriousness of actual forcible or coerced sexual activity.

    She’s an adult and you didn’t threaten her and she consented. So it isn’t rape… this is just some kind of attention-seeking self-flagellation.

    Apparently the average Slate reader (who is pretty Leftist nowadays) is more sane than the average college Sex Crimes Kangaroo Tribunal nowadays.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    There you have the crux of the situation for those of us on the Left.

    The average left-of-center Joe or Jane or Pat is quite reasonable. The problem is, the money on the left is in two places — the crazy left and the billionaire boys club left. The crazy left is quite useful to the billionaire boys club; as long as we are arguing about the proper pronouns and invisible backpacks we won’t notice the billionaires picking our pockets.

    The crazy left has the megaphone.

    The billionaire left owns the megaphone.

    The comments sections on left wing web sites are sone of the few places the sane and non-rich can get a word in edgewise.
  73. @Thulean Friend
    I never understood the rage against CC coming from conversative quarters. All they would do was fuming about muh big gobarmint. The idea itself is fine. Having a common baseline is important. We can quibble over the exact details in how that baseline will be defined but I find it hard to fault the core idea.

    America’s PISA scores by race are fine, it looks like CC is alright to me

  74. @MikeatMikedotMike
    A good start to repairing public education would be to eliminate homosexuals from any teaching or administrative position, and then restoring the teaching staff to at least 75% male. A requirement of female teachers would be that they must be at least 40 years old in order to teach.

    I happen to know a quite a few female teachers, from ages 24 up. Every single one of them, without exception, has developed an extremely cynical and hateful attitude towards the students they teach. How many of these women then redirect those feelings toward their own kids?

    As far as CC goes whatever its original intention, the product that was rolled out was a mess of diversity indoctrination and bizarro math formulation. My older daughter's school switched to it after her third grade. The way students are required to calculate math problems was every bit as over complicated and backward as you've might have heard.

    As best as I can tell, there is not a single male teacher in my son’s elementary school. It is purely a white women’s affair including the hierarchy.

    First of all, why would a man want to work there? You spend your entire career working among hair triggered SJW that are literally indifferent towards men at best, and openly hostile at the worst. Women don’t work outdoors, at night, do super hard labor, take risks, or travel much. They need jobs like teaching where they can move along like a herd, grazing, never making a killing but surviving with a job that fits their lifestyle including looking after their own kids. This means these jobs are much more important to women then men who need to work but must have something with higher pay to find a school teacher wife.

    Peter Brimelow covered this in his book a Worm in the Apple. These teachers unions are basically a subsidiary of the Democrat party. Like other organized women’s groups they could give a shit about men except to the extent they need to sit on our necks financially. This makes it very easy not to support fund raising or raises for the teachers.

  75. @Lot
    I can’t see any comments in the sea of ads, but I think the “letter” was fiction.

    You have to click the Comment button. I agree, it’s satire – letter and advice. Entertaining, nevertheless.

  76. @karsten

    Coleman went to the funder of Slate, Bill Gates, and told him in effect that school curriculums should be less girly, more like Michael Kinsley’s Slate. For example, don’t assign so many works of fiction in English, assign more nonfiction.
     
    In saying this, I'm afraid that Mr. Sailer betrays his own reading preferences and limitations, as someone who evidently reads nonfiction copiously but almost exclusively and reads little and studies less of actual literature. Also, I expect that his view has been biased by the kinds of limp-wristed non-fiction that he remembers being assigned to read in school. This is understandable.

    But in fact, depending on what one assigned, literature can be far, far less girly and more masculine than most non-fiction. A right-wing reading list could easily be compiled that would do more for the Western world's testosterone deficiency in men than zinc supplementation. One simply has to be versed in the field.

    A right-wing reading list could easily be compiled that would do more for the Western world’s testosterone deficiency in men than zinc supplementation. One simply has to be versed in the field.

    How about a list sampling, tough guy? 🏋🏼

  77. OT: has anybody suggested reparations for ugly people? a tax on beauty? surely beauty is purely a social construct and everyone should be legally equally beautiful in their own way?

  78. @R.G. Camara
    You can bet a ruthless and near-autist like Gates believes in a lot of anti-woke truths about race and sex and thus knew all along this crap wouldn't work.

    Rest assured that Gates knows these truths but that his wife either doesn’t know or want to know and that she wears the pants in that particular operation (also known as their family)!

  79. @TelfoedJohn
    I’ve heard attractiveness is more correlated with success than IQ and educational attainment, so the obsession with common core etc may be missing the point. Just restrict immigration so that Norwegian female volleyball players are the only ones allowed.

    I’ve heard attractiveness is more correlated with success than IQ and educational attainment, so the obsession with common core etc may be missing the point.

    The “big picture” question is: “What is the purpose of education?”

    In the modern society it appears to be to indoctrinate youth to obey their elite masters.

    Obedience is best taught in a prison camp–no need for schools.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Schools these days have higher security than some prisons.
  80. Anonymous[173] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman
    I've got a better idea:

    Get the US Feral Gov't out of our children's education!
    Kill the D.O.E. Let the teachers teach, and let the parents teach. Quit spending my and my neighbors' money on any of these bullshit programs! Bill Gate can kiss my ass.

    I’ve got a better idea:

    Get the US Feral Gov’t out of our children’s education!
    Kill the D.O.E. Let the teachers teach, and let the parents teach. Quit spending my and my neighbors’ money on any of these bullshit programs! Bill Gate can kiss my ass.

    This kind of reckless talk will get your doors kicked in in the middle of the night in post-Trump America. The Department of Education has lots of armed special agents and civil rights lawyers in all 50 states.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    They can all kiss my ass after Bill Gates is done. Yes, I know that all kind of Feral Agencies that nobody would think would need guns go out in the hundreds and thousands to that Fed LEO training center (FLETCA?) right across from the Glynn Co. airport to train how to shoot. They are still small in numbers compared to armed America, though.
  81. One side of the mouth: it’s not a replacement, the replacement is a virulent racist conspiracy theory, and anyone who talks about the replacement is a white supremacist criminal.
    Other side of the mouth: boy howdy is this replacement ever fun and morally righteous.

  82. Anonymous[217] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    Statistics is girly math. It's important, useful, and deep. But it's girly. Math majors avoid it because of its stigma. You'll notice that more and more universities are splitting it off into a separate department, "Statistics and Data Science." Math departments launder their advanced statistics courses through names like "applied probability theory" or "stochastic analysis."

    For some reason it seemed that there were more female math majors than most engineering branches, especially EE/ME/Aero. I am guessing it is the physics component. Math is less masculine than most give it credit for (though at the highest levels, like anything, where are the females? Are the names behind the theories anything but male really? Women like Noether are the exception that prove the rule.).

    I don’t think stats is the reason though. At least, it never occurred to me nor anyone else I knew.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    In this article, MIT lists its "Courses" (majors) by gender:

    https://thetech.com/2008/10/14/women-undergrad-v128-n47

    Overall, MIT (due to AA) is 55/45 m/f (most colleges nowadays are more f than M but MIT is heavily STEM).

    The most women heavy courses (70 t0 75% F) are Biology, Brain Science and Earth Science.

    The most male heavy are Nuclear Engineering, Electrical Engineer and Aeronautics (25 to 30% F).

    Physics (32% F) is not far behind, Math is 38%.

    BTW, the # of the Courses at MIT indicate the order they were added to the curriculum so the higher the # the more recent the Course. Civil engineering is Course 1, Nuclear science is Course 22.
    , @gregor
    Undergrad math majors are about 50/50 nowadays last time I checked. Male mathematical talent gets split among more fields. The female math talent gets concentrated in straight math, especially math ed.
  83. @OverCommenter
    "So, Common Core was basically a conspiracy by intelligent centrists to move K-12 education a tiny bit to the right."

    Bill Gates is a centrist in your mind? What conservative/centrist position has he ever supported? Oh let me guess, the billionaire open borders zealot can really get behind the GoP platform of low taxes and infinity H1B visas, right? Woah, such conservatism!! The top story on Slate.com right now is "Biden or Buttigeig" and yet here you are claiming they inspired shifting the education system to the right, am I understanding that correctly?

    Why is the answer to the question about America's failing industry, institutions and education never "the changing demographics"? "Diversity is our greatest strength" is always flouted and touted, and yet education in America has never been worse. I guess we just need to add tacos to lunch menus, clearly "good" food is the only solution to any social problem. Look at all this nonsense you have to believe in order to make your world view tenable. You know it's going to be funny in the future the insane excuses people like you will have to invent in order to explain why a less than 50% white America barely functions, and more closely resembles South America than Europe.

    “Diversity is our greatest strength” is always flouted and touted,

    From a 1992 speech by Dan Quayle. Probably the Woke don’t have a clue about him.

  84. @Bard of Bumperstickers
    The problem with Common Core is that it leaves a schoolchild qualified to be only a common whore.

    Common Core crashed on the common corps.

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    Or, as our forty-fourth president would say, our common corpse - the bloated, reeking carcass of the body politic.
  85. @anon
    But in fact, depending on what one assigned, literature can be far, far less girly and more masculine than most non-fiction.

    Can be. But in the real world, high school juniors are reading Handmaid's Tale because required.

    Can be. But in the real world, high school juniors are reading Handmaid’s Tale because required.

    Unfortunately true.

    Homeschooling or, far better, a truly separate, dissident school system is the only solution.

  86. @R.G. Camara
    You can bet a ruthless and near-autist like Gates believes in a lot of anti-woke truths about race and sex and thus knew all along this crap wouldn't work.

    I think it was always his wife’s hobbyhorse and he just went along. Women tend to be less realistic about how dumb blacks and Hispanics are.

  87. @Thulean Friend
    I never understood the rage against CC coming from conversative quarters. All they would do was fuming about muh big gobarmint. The idea itself is fine. Having a common baseline is important. We can quibble over the exact details in how that baseline will be defined but I find it hard to fault the core idea.

    It was stupid. No testing of whether it worked before national introduction.

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    Your critique is that of implementation. I'm talking about the concept itself; that of a baseline. Much of the opposition was just knee-jerk grugbrained takes of the kind you just displayed.
  88. I like the idea of national education standards.

    Something like common core however is not a national education standard, it is an attempt to standardize the education process.

    What would be nice is a big fat book of questions that serve as the national educational standards for each grade. First grade math: “What is 1 + 12”. Fourth grade science: “What biological kingdom includes mushrooms?” Thousands upon thousands of questions for each grade, so many that rote memorization is impossible and attempting to master the subject is the only way. Basically, the equivalent of several SAT II subject tests for each grade.

    Leave it to different localities to teach this material as they see fit and you will very rapidly see an optimization in teaching methods.

    Of course this will never happen.

    • Replies: @anon
    I like the idea of national education standards.

    Why?
    , @Reg Cæsar

    I like the idea of national education standards.
     
    Those might be appropriate to actual nations. That hardly makes them relevant to the United States.
  89. @Jack D
    You mean this is like the SJW version of Letters to Penthouse? I guess so because the woman who plays the "Dear Abby" role is "Stoya" who is a porn star (a very flat chested porn star) - who better to ask about sex?

    As for the comments, the #1 comment was this, which I thought was a good one and decidedly non-feminist:

    You let your girlfriend gaslight you into thinking you raped her. You didn't. It's appropriate to consider your past actions and learn from them/ feel regret, but you didn't rape her and she's leveraging your guilt to have total control of the relationship.
     
    Other top comments:

    Relabeling incidents of less-than-enthusiastic sex as "rape" diminishes the seriousness of actual forcible or coerced sexual activity.

    She's an adult and you didn't threaten her and she consented. So it isn't rape... this is just some kind of attention-seeking self-flagellation.

    Apparently the average Slate reader (who is pretty Leftist nowadays) is more sane than the average college Sex Crimes Kangaroo Tribunal nowadays.

    There you have the crux of the situation for those of us on the Left.

    The average left-of-center Joe or Jane or Pat is quite reasonable. The problem is, the money on the left is in two places — the crazy left and the billionaire boys club left. The crazy left is quite useful to the billionaire boys club; as long as we are arguing about the proper pronouns and invisible backpacks we won’t notice the billionaires picking our pockets.

    The crazy left has the megaphone.

    The billionaire left owns the megaphone.

    The comments sections on left wing web sites are sone of the few places the sane and non-rich can get a word in edgewise.

    • Agree: Haha
    • Replies: @Jack D
    Things sound better on the left than on the right, where the comments seem equally divided between the sane and stark raving mad anti-Semites, conspiracy theorists, etc.. I suppose leftists have a lot of outlets since there is almost no leftist opinion that is not verboten, but all the right wing fruitcakes are confined to a few small reservations where they are all forced to congregate.
    , @anon
    The average left-of-center Joe or Jane or Pat is quite reasonable.

    Until their assumptions are questioned. Then the rage comes out. Personal experience. Time after time after time.

    For example, nobody on the left had any problem with the Waco massacre and subsequent coverup.

    Go look at left wing pubs for 1993. Look at every issue of "The Nation" and try to find a single mention of that horrible crime - Cockburn wrote one column hemming and hawing, and that was it. Repeat for "Mother Jones". Waco was a non-event or even a reasonable one, so far as the left-of-center was and is concerned.

    Paleo, you may find it quite reasonable for the FBI to burn down a church with 70 - 80 people inside of it, on live TV, and then lying about it for years. People with a conscience don't agree with you on that.

    Everything I need to know about liberals and lefties I learned from Waco and its aftermath.
    , @but an humble craftsman
    Sounds like a very plausible hypothesis explaining the astonishing intellectual deficiciencies seen on today's left.
  90. @karsten

    Coleman went to the funder of Slate, Bill Gates, and told him in effect that school curriculums should be less girly, more like Michael Kinsley’s Slate. For example, don’t assign so many works of fiction in English, assign more nonfiction.
     
    In saying this, I'm afraid that Mr. Sailer betrays his own reading preferences and limitations, as someone who evidently reads nonfiction copiously but almost exclusively and reads little and studies less of actual literature. Also, I expect that his view has been biased by the kinds of limp-wristed non-fiction that he remembers being assigned to read in school. This is understandable.

    But in fact, depending on what one assigned, literature can be far, far less girly and more masculine than most non-fiction. A right-wing reading list could easily be compiled that would do more for the Western world's testosterone deficiency in men than zinc supplementation. One simply has to be versed in the field.

    Can you point me in the direction of a good right-wing reading list? Serious question, I have young kids, so I am always looking for these kinds of things.

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
    George Orwell's "Animal Farm" is easy to read and great for discussion.
  91. @Reg Cæsar
    Common Core crashed on the common corps.

    Or, as our forty-fourth president would say, our common corpse – the bloated, reeking carcass of the body politic.

  92. @Paleo Liberal
    There you have the crux of the situation for those of us on the Left.

    The average left-of-center Joe or Jane or Pat is quite reasonable. The problem is, the money on the left is in two places — the crazy left and the billionaire boys club left. The crazy left is quite useful to the billionaire boys club; as long as we are arguing about the proper pronouns and invisible backpacks we won’t notice the billionaires picking our pockets.

    The crazy left has the megaphone.

    The billionaire left owns the megaphone.

    The comments sections on left wing web sites are sone of the few places the sane and non-rich can get a word in edgewise.

    Things sound better on the left than on the right, where the comments seem equally divided between the sane and stark raving mad anti-Semites, conspiracy theorists, etc.. I suppose leftists have a lot of outlets since there is almost no leftist opinion that is not verboten, but all the right wing fruitcakes are confined to a few small reservations where they are all forced to congregate.

  93. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    Common Core, shmommon core. In grade school, in the actual classes, the main concern of the smart high-achieving nerdy kids is to a) not get beaten up by retards and b) figure out how to pass the incredibly boring wasted time with the rest of the criminals, thugs, and morons, before you could get out of school and then go to the library or go back home, where you could actually learn something. Or even just play roller hockey, you literally learn more practical lessons about life playing a rough game of street roller hockey, than you do in an American grade school.

    Our entire educational establishment runs straight into the rocks every single time, because it is founded on the pathological refusal to forthrightly state a few obvious truths which nobody wants to admit:

    a) White kids sort themselves out fairly quickly in school, into the bright kids who don't really need a teacher to teach them anything, the library will do just fine; the baseline normie competent kids who could use a little structure and encouragement; and the kids who don't really need to be educated beyond the absolute basics, because they're supposed to be doing the jobs that are now instead being done by illegal Mixtec immigrants.

    b) nobody wants to flat-out admit the obvious truth that negro children should never, ever, EVER be sent to the same schools as White children. It is an automatic disaster, it is obvious to all concerned. Diversity is not our strength, it is (((their))) strength. And because the educational establishment is controlled by certain (((people))) who have both institutionally insulated themselves from the problem, and have an identifiable (((stake))) in using negroes as a social, political, economic, and biological weapon against their sworn enemies the white goyim, the thing can never be brought up and discussed frankly in public, because Holocaust or some other nonsense.

    Negroes are observably lower-IQ and higher testosterone, which alters their children's behavior in obviously observable ways in a schoolroom context; they have different and non-compatible familial and parenting strategies compared to White families; they are for historical and anthropological reasons, culturally maladapted to industrial and post-industrial societal configurations; they have a folk culture and a street culture which teaches them to be historical and existential enemies of their erstwhile compatriots; they are oversexed, culturally, physically and psychologically, and generally reach sexual maturity earlier than White students, and are exposed from birth to a bizarre acculturation that encourages them to seek out and sexually assault White girls, which makes White parents, um, a little uneasy, for reasons which everybody knows but no one can say in public.

    c) What Asians, Hispanics, subcons and Mohameddans want is irrelevant, because none of them should even be here in the first place.

    If we could actually speak publicly and frankly about these matters without constant (((moderation))) from our (((betters))), who have a vested interest in preventing this discussion, then the issues could be rationally settled quick smart.

    “negro children should never, ever, EVER be sent to the same schools as White children.”

    Nah, any black kid who can behave is fine, even if he isn’t bright at all. Even if a school is 100% black, any nice kid deserves to be in a class without abuse. All abusive and disruptive students need to be removed to special rooms without contact with the nicer kids. This is just human decency. I think that parents should have to pay fines and/or do community service with their kids in order for an offending student to earn his way back into a good classroom. The student is legally entitled to a free, appropriate public education. If he is disruptive, then a special room is appropriate for him.

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Black kids appearing in what were de facto white schools is incongruous at best. As the black ratio increases, it’s simply incongo.
    , @Anonymous
    The educable black kids do better with decent black teachers than with decent white teachers, but either way they do okay as long as the education is geared to their actual IQ nad firm, fair, comprehensible-to-the-kid ar consistently, persistently applied. The ineducable blacks-nothing matters anyway. They are ineducable. They either need to be put to work doing a job they can do at which someone can make a profit or they need to be SSD'd or separated.
  94. @Charon

    Bill Gates is not a stupid man
     
    Likely not, but in that case he's irredeemably evil. The Gates Foundation has been pouring billions into Africa with the explicit plan of increasing the number of Africans.

    No one here needs to be told what the implications of four billion Africans are for the world at large. It's possible that Bill and Melinda are aiming to make it five or six.

    People say that the 20th century was a disaster. It was just preamble.

    Related: WSJ has a story about migrants “rescued” at sea being returned to Libya (oh the humanity!)
    Here is a quote from an African and future Italian:
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/libyan-coast-guard-returns-europe-bound-migrants-to-war-zone-11575723601#comments_sector

    One of them is Musa Abdullah, of Benin, who had paid 3,000 dinars (about $2,100) for a spot on the raft that was intercepted by the Fezzan 658. Mr. Abdullah had been imprisoned in Libya for six months after militiamen stopped him for not having legal documents. In detention, the 28-year-old said, guards beat him until his parents paid a bribe to release him.

    “When they return us to land, they return us to a prison,” Mr. Abdullah said. “And we’ll pay to get out and try again.” He is driven by the stories of those who have made it to Europe, including a friend who recently married. “My dream is to reach Italy,” Mr. Abdullah said. “And marry an Italian woman.”

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fREBiAyu2g
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4jIqSYtPBk
    , @Sol
    Not marry an Italian woman? Sounds like invasion to me.
    , @Wilkey

    When they return us to land, they return us to a prison
     
    This is so f—-ing dishonest. It’s not like they started out in Libya. They went from their home country - Nigeria or wherever - to Libya in order to get to Europe. So if Libya isn’t safe why did they go there to begin with?

    If Libya is considered unsafe then what the EU needs to do after they return them to Libya is take them straight to the airport and put them on a plane back home. No passport from your home country? Well sort all that out when you land.
  95. @anon
    But in fact, depending on what one assigned, literature can be far, far less girly and more masculine than most non-fiction.

    Can be. But in the real world, high school juniors are reading Handmaid's Tale because required.

    in the real world, high school juniors are reading Handmaid’s Tale because required.

    Now that is abuse

  96. @SimpleSong
    I like the idea of national education standards.

    Something like common core however is not a national education standard, it is an attempt to standardize the education process.

    What would be nice is a big fat book of questions that serve as the national educational standards for each grade. First grade math: "What is 1 + 12". Fourth grade science: "What biological kingdom includes mushrooms?" Thousands upon thousands of questions for each grade, so many that rote memorization is impossible and attempting to master the subject is the only way. Basically, the equivalent of several SAT II subject tests for each grade.

    Leave it to different localities to teach this material as they see fit and you will very rapidly see an optimization in teaching methods.

    Of course this will never happen.

    I like the idea of national education standards.

    Why?

    • Replies: @SimpleSong
    I suspect your wariness is due to the belief that many of these standards will become politicized, and they will. Some subjects are going to be wildly politicized (history, civics, literature.) So leave those subjects out of the standards. But anything relatively apolitical, (math, science, music, grammar, rhetoric, etc.) would benefit from this treatment, in my opinion, for a few reasons:

    If the results are published it allows parents to be more informed in choosing a school. (of course this has to go hand in hand with school choice) It also allows people to objectively evaluate how different school systems are doing and/or how different teaching methods are doing.

    Like standardized testing it allows people of high ability from humble circumstances to be given a shot. Some kid from a tiny high school in West Virginia can get straight As at his high school but this isn't going to count for much compared to the kid who got straight As at Andover or Exeter because everyone assumes (rightly so) that the level of rigor is different. But if common standards are present the kid from West Virginia at least has a shot. Without the common standard he's not even in the game.

    It helps people who are homeschooling or in smaller districts know what to teach, in particular what to move on to if a student has outrun the teacher's knowledge. Maybe the teacher doesn't herself know the subject but if she has a bright kid she can at least set them up with some resources if she knows what is supposed to come next.

    Anyway I think these sort of objective national standards would be a body-blow against the entrenched educational bureaucracies that stay relevant by being very wishy washy about what they really accomplish.
  97. @Anonymous
    For some reason it seemed that there were more female math majors than most engineering branches, especially EE/ME/Aero. I am guessing it is the physics component. Math is less masculine than most give it credit for (though at the highest levels, like anything, where are the females? Are the names behind the theories anything but male really? Women like Noether are the exception that prove the rule.).

    I don't think stats is the reason though. At least, it never occurred to me nor anyone else I knew.

    In this article, MIT lists its “Courses” (majors) by gender:

    https://thetech.com/2008/10/14/women-undergrad-v128-n47

    Overall, MIT (due to AA) is 55/45 m/f (most colleges nowadays are more f than M but MIT is heavily STEM).

    The most women heavy courses (70 t0 75% F) are Biology, Brain Science and Earth Science.

    The most male heavy are Nuclear Engineering, Electrical Engineer and Aeronautics (25 to 30% F).

    Physics (32% F) is not far behind, Math is 38%.

    BTW, the # of the Courses at MIT indicate the order they were added to the curriculum so the higher the # the more recent the Course. Civil engineering is Course 1, Nuclear science is Course 22.

  98. anon[169] • Disclaimer says:
    @Paleo Liberal
    There you have the crux of the situation for those of us on the Left.

    The average left-of-center Joe or Jane or Pat is quite reasonable. The problem is, the money on the left is in two places — the crazy left and the billionaire boys club left. The crazy left is quite useful to the billionaire boys club; as long as we are arguing about the proper pronouns and invisible backpacks we won’t notice the billionaires picking our pockets.

    The crazy left has the megaphone.

    The billionaire left owns the megaphone.

    The comments sections on left wing web sites are sone of the few places the sane and non-rich can get a word in edgewise.

    The average left-of-center Joe or Jane or Pat is quite reasonable.

    Until their assumptions are questioned. Then the rage comes out. Personal experience. Time after time after time.

    For example, nobody on the left had any problem with the Waco massacre and subsequent coverup.

    Go look at left wing pubs for 1993. Look at every issue of “The Nation” and try to find a single mention of that horrible crime – Cockburn wrote one column hemming and hawing, and that was it. Repeat for “Mother Jones”. Waco was a non-event or even a reasonable one, so far as the left-of-center was and is concerned.

    Paleo, you may find it quite reasonable for the FBI to burn down a church with 70 – 80 people inside of it, on live TV, and then lying about it for years. People with a conscience don’t agree with you on that.

    Everything I need to know about liberals and lefties I learned from Waco and its aftermath.

  99. @Anonymous
    For some reason it seemed that there were more female math majors than most engineering branches, especially EE/ME/Aero. I am guessing it is the physics component. Math is less masculine than most give it credit for (though at the highest levels, like anything, where are the females? Are the names behind the theories anything but male really? Women like Noether are the exception that prove the rule.).

    I don't think stats is the reason though. At least, it never occurred to me nor anyone else I knew.

    Undergrad math majors are about 50/50 nowadays last time I checked. Male mathematical talent gets split among more fields. The female math talent gets concentrated in straight math, especially math ed.

    • Replies: @gregor
    Correction: It looks like the female proportion is in the low 40s. It’s actually gone down a little but it’s never been 50/50.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    The female math talent gets concentrated in straight math...
     
    Wait, I thought it was "fuzzy".

    Did they undergo reparative therapy?

  100. Anonymous[217] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    Putting aside your stark raving mad anti-Semitism (any sane Jewish person doesn't want to bring down the temple on the goyim because they are in the same building - Samson did it only as a last ditch measure of desperation after that shiksa ruined his life) you are almost right - MOST blacks cannot be educated in the same setting as whites. However, there is a small % that can. At the elementary level you can take the top 10 or 15% of blacks without too much trouble. By the high school years, you can only find maybe 5% who could sit in the same classroom and not be lost as the curriculum gets tougher. In a large city with a large black population you can gather all the talented tenth blacks together in magnet schools with an equal number of whites and Asians and still have education going on.

    What Asians, Hispanics, subcons and Mohameddans want is irrelevant, because none of them should even be here in the first place.

     

    Maybe you are right and they shouldn't but they are - you can't just dismiss people with a handwave like that. For example, in LA, 75% of the students are Hispanic and 10% of the student population is Non-Hispanic white, so whites are the ones who are irrelevant at this point. They are here and they are going to be here for the rest of their long lives (most of them are American born and not deportable unless we change the Constitution) and either our society educates them in some fashion or else they are going to be an even bigger problem than they would be otherwise.

    Putting aside your stark raving mad anti-Semitism (any sane Jewish person doesn’t want to bring down the temple on the goyim because they are in the same building – Samson did it only as a last ditch measure of desperation after that shiksa ruined his life)

    I guess by your definition it is insane Jewish people wanting to bring down the temple on the goyim. But the insane seem to have the power and perhaps the majority!

    Delilah may have been something of a Philistine Esther. But is there any evidence she was not Jewish?

  101. So, was Common Core actually good for the top, but not the middle or bottom, and thus had to be scrapped because it just made the gaps worse? Or was it a failure across the board?

    • Replies: @Rosie

    So, was Common Core actually good for the top, but not the middle or bottom, and thus had to be scrapped because it just made the gaps worse? Or was it a failure across the board?
     
    I don't have any data, but that is my surmise. The whole point of common core math was to ensure that students actually understood math, rather than just performing rote calculations over and over again. The problem is that this approach is not suitable for average children.
  102. @The Plutonium Kid
    How is it that so few people notice the resemblance of the Common Core fiasco of today and the New Math fiasco of the '60's?

    Here's Tom Lehrer's take on it:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6OaYPVueW4

    I was a victim of new math — 1970s. It took two years of studying with my physicist father to regain the years I had lost.

    • Replies: @education realist
    New math was gone by the 70s.
  103. @karsten

    Coleman went to the funder of Slate, Bill Gates, and told him in effect that school curriculums should be less girly, more like Michael Kinsley’s Slate. For example, don’t assign so many works of fiction in English, assign more nonfiction.
     
    In saying this, I'm afraid that Mr. Sailer betrays his own reading preferences and limitations, as someone who evidently reads nonfiction copiously but almost exclusively and reads little and studies less of actual literature. Also, I expect that his view has been biased by the kinds of limp-wristed non-fiction that he remembers being assigned to read in school. This is understandable.

    But in fact, depending on what one assigned, literature can be far, far less girly and more masculine than most non-fiction. A right-wing reading list could easily be compiled that would do more for the Western world's testosterone deficiency in men than zinc supplementation. One simply has to be versed in the field.

    But in fact, depending on what one assigned, literature can be far, far less girly and more masculine than most non-fiction. A right-wing reading list could easily be compiled…

    I’m not trolling. Can you point to such a list?

  104. It wasn’t really moving to the right. A better way to look at it was that it was trying to move education to being more technocratic. The goal was to improve workforce skills in a valueless way. That’s not conservative at all. The reduction of citizenry to a set of homogenous skills independent of the local customs, ethnicity, or geography of the states perfectly aligns with the Chamber of Commerce version of the US.

    Both sides of the debate are firmly on the left, and the hard left at that. The right did not exist at all in the debate.

    Looking at math, the pro-CC argument hinged in the unstated reality that US elementary and middle school teachers aren’t smart enough to teach kids to a high caliber. At best the publicly voiced reason was teachers weren’t prepared or were poorly educated themselves, and differences across states were impossible for students to navigate as the population became mobile. Their goal was to solve this to create a de facto national curriculum, which is why the standards dictate how to teach in addition to what to teach. This aligned perfectly with Coleman’s goals of his becoming the de facto national exam.

    The anti-cc movement was a mishmash, but mostly gained quarter from the constructivist camp, a group of educators on the hard left who had taken a telephone-game-version of an understanding of all of the Derrida/Foucault /we construct our own knowledge ideas, and (mis)applied them to children to create program after program where children invent their own knowledge by discovering math. To this crowd, any national prescription was The Other, though the Other here was still created by 60s commie academic lefties.

    But they won, too, because they managed to get constructivist “mathematical practice” standards into thr same requirements.

    What ended up happening was 48 states adopted the standards, all the books publishers fell in line, and then after a backlash by people including
    finally, some conservatives, cosmetic changes wete made to pretend the standards had been disowned while they’re all still there but not in name.

    Not one of the math people on either side of the debate was a conservative. every single one of them is a reality denialist. Several of the core people would tell you any person can learn calculus by age 18 if given the proper schoolbooks. None would disagree. But the infighting was vicious. in one occasion lefties on the anti CC side who believed CC was “dumbed down” accused the other lefties of writing CC in order to screw minorities. none will acknowledge any race realism at all.

    looking at the reading side, the push to nonfiction was again a way to push for a technocratic valueless education that offended none, rather than one that, say, taught citizenship.

    re Hirsch: he believed that content knowledge will improve the outcomes of low SES and minority kids, and that was his reason for doing it, as was his focus on phonics, spelling, and other basic skills low SES acquire nowhere but school. He’d happily agree with the current ideas of privilege. Nothing conservative there either.

    so to the question of if this helped: helped create more fodder for thr globalist world? yes. Improved the chance that your kids learn despite their moron teacher? maybe. Improved the technocratic requirements of what is taught yi the average child so as to make them more employable? yes. Made the ability of federalism work? no. empowered master teachers to actually teach kids putside the average? no.

  105. @SimpleSong
    I like the idea of national education standards.

    Something like common core however is not a national education standard, it is an attempt to standardize the education process.

    What would be nice is a big fat book of questions that serve as the national educational standards for each grade. First grade math: "What is 1 + 12". Fourth grade science: "What biological kingdom includes mushrooms?" Thousands upon thousands of questions for each grade, so many that rote memorization is impossible and attempting to master the subject is the only way. Basically, the equivalent of several SAT II subject tests for each grade.

    Leave it to different localities to teach this material as they see fit and you will very rapidly see an optimization in teaching methods.

    Of course this will never happen.

    I like the idea of national education standards.

    Those might be appropriate to actual nations. That hardly makes them relevant to the United States.

    • Replies: @SimpleSong
    Well, some things are transnational. Math, physics, etc.

    For the things that aren't, look at it as a glass half full kind of thing. Educational standards don't need to be promulgated by the government, and most successful standards actually have not been. Why not have a Reg Caesar history standard that devotes exactly 0 time to Harriet Tubman? Particularly as whites become more isolated and clannish they might start to seek these sorts of things out. I used to love history and my grandkids seemed to when they were little, but none of them took the AP history exam at their school and I suspect I know why...
  106. “was basically a conspiracy by intelligent centrists to move K-12 education a tiny bit to the right.”

    Yeah, but tell that to the Glenn Becks of the world.

    Standards are actually a GOOD thing. And your kid’s teacher is probably a communist anyway.

  107. @karsten

    Coleman went to the funder of Slate, Bill Gates, and told him in effect that school curriculums should be less girly, more like Michael Kinsley’s Slate. For example, don’t assign so many works of fiction in English, assign more nonfiction.
     
    In saying this, I'm afraid that Mr. Sailer betrays his own reading preferences and limitations, as someone who evidently reads nonfiction copiously but almost exclusively and reads little and studies less of actual literature. Also, I expect that his view has been biased by the kinds of limp-wristed non-fiction that he remembers being assigned to read in school. This is understandable.

    But in fact, depending on what one assigned, literature can be far, far less girly and more masculine than most non-fiction. A right-wing reading list could easily be compiled that would do more for the Western world's testosterone deficiency in men than zinc supplementation. One simply has to be versed in the field.

    This.

    CC was the bullet to the brain of the liberal arts from the very people (the best and brightest) who should have known better.

    Shaking my damn head. You’re better than this, Steve.

  108. During parent teacher conference, when this was first introduced, the teacher mentioned they were beginning to implement the common core requirements. I asked what specifically would be changed , why it was controversial and what common core even meant.

    She kind of fumbled for a minute then said “really I don’t know.” She couldn’t have been the only one. It was a tempest in a teapot that probably affected very little of how teachers taught.

  109. @Jack D
    Putting aside your stark raving mad anti-Semitism (any sane Jewish person doesn't want to bring down the temple on the goyim because they are in the same building - Samson did it only as a last ditch measure of desperation after that shiksa ruined his life) you are almost right - MOST blacks cannot be educated in the same setting as whites. However, there is a small % that can. At the elementary level you can take the top 10 or 15% of blacks without too much trouble. By the high school years, you can only find maybe 5% who could sit in the same classroom and not be lost as the curriculum gets tougher. In a large city with a large black population you can gather all the talented tenth blacks together in magnet schools with an equal number of whites and Asians and still have education going on.

    What Asians, Hispanics, subcons and Mohameddans want is irrelevant, because none of them should even be here in the first place.

     

    Maybe you are right and they shouldn't but they are - you can't just dismiss people with a handwave like that. For example, in LA, 75% of the students are Hispanic and 10% of the student population is Non-Hispanic white, so whites are the ones who are irrelevant at this point. They are here and they are going to be here for the rest of their long lives (most of them are American born and not deportable unless we change the Constitution) and either our society educates them in some fashion or else they are going to be an even bigger problem than they would be otherwise.

    It is amusing to watch you both accept recognizable patterns within the negro race and then reject obviously recognizable patterns within the Ashkenazi race, within the very same sentence.

    • Agree: Peterike
    • LOL: YetAnotherAnon
  110. My solution to American education:
    1) Lengthen the school year
    2) Higher standards
    3) Be more willing to actually fail kids, and to tell them they aren’t college material, and shift them into voc-ed programs.

    It’s not magic. It works just fine in European countries.

    The problem with that is no one likes the idea of increasing the dropout rate, or of vocational education, and you can’t tell black kids they aren’t college material. Basically race is what drives a lot of the silliness in American education policy and what makes it impossible to reform. Perhaps we should have an entirely separate, but equal, system for blacks, where we could continue to pretend they are every bit as likely to attend college as whites, right up until the time they rob the convenience store or have their third child out-of-wedlock.

    Many students won’t benefit from higher standards because they just aren’t all that bright. Raise the stakes in high school though and maybe 10 or even 20% of kids, mostly white, will up their game, and get more out of their education we spend so damn much on.

    • Replies: @Jack D

    Perhaps we should have an entirely separate, but equal, system for blacks,
     
    Been there, done that. Anyway, as a practical matter, in big cities most blacks already attend mostly non-white schools and in prosperous suburbs there are not that many blacks.

    I agree with you that refusal to recognize racial differences is what is driving educational policy in the wrong direction. Once you account for race (and therefore IQ), American school achievement is about where it should be (but America is running out of white people and there are not that many Asians, so the averages are going to keep dropping). However, on the individual school level it is not that big a driver because either blacks are in separate schools already or sort themselves into different classes anyway.
  111. @Achmed E. Newman
    I've got a better idea:

    Get the US Feral Gov't out of our children's education!
    Kill the D.O.E. Let the teachers teach, and let the parents teach. Quit spending my and my neighbors' money on any of these bullshit programs! Bill Gate can kiss my ass.

    Your idea, I am afraid, may be too sound to fly. You need to puff it up with fantasy and nonsense to render it airworthy – at least in our times.

  112. @Jack D
    Putting aside your stark raving mad anti-Semitism (any sane Jewish person doesn't want to bring down the temple on the goyim because they are in the same building - Samson did it only as a last ditch measure of desperation after that shiksa ruined his life) you are almost right - MOST blacks cannot be educated in the same setting as whites. However, there is a small % that can. At the elementary level you can take the top 10 or 15% of blacks without too much trouble. By the high school years, you can only find maybe 5% who could sit in the same classroom and not be lost as the curriculum gets tougher. In a large city with a large black population you can gather all the talented tenth blacks together in magnet schools with an equal number of whites and Asians and still have education going on.

    What Asians, Hispanics, subcons and Mohameddans want is irrelevant, because none of them should even be here in the first place.

     

    Maybe you are right and they shouldn't but they are - you can't just dismiss people with a handwave like that. For example, in LA, 75% of the students are Hispanic and 10% of the student population is Non-Hispanic white, so whites are the ones who are irrelevant at this point. They are here and they are going to be here for the rest of their long lives (most of them are American born and not deportable unless we change the Constitution) and either our society educates them in some fashion or else they are going to be an even bigger problem than they would be otherwise.

    any sane Jewish person

    Oy, there’s the rub! Jews tend to be neurotic and masochistic. Goading the goyim is a favorite way to scratch that self-destructive itch.

  113. @Joe Schmoe
    "negro children should never, ever, EVER be sent to the same schools as White children."

    Nah, any black kid who can behave is fine, even if he isn't bright at all. Even if a school is 100% black, any nice kid deserves to be in a class without abuse. All abusive and disruptive students need to be removed to special rooms without contact with the nicer kids. This is just human decency. I think that parents should have to pay fines and/or do community service with their kids in order for an offending student to earn his way back into a good classroom. The student is legally entitled to a free, appropriate public education. If he is disruptive, then a special room is appropriate for him.

    Black kids appearing in what were de facto white schools is incongruous at best. As the black ratio increases, it’s simply incongo.

  114. @Justvisiting

    I’ve heard attractiveness is more correlated with success than IQ and educational attainment, so the obsession with common core etc may be missing the point.
     
    The "big picture" question is: "What is the purpose of education?"

    In the modern society it appears to be to indoctrinate youth to obey their elite masters.

    Obedience is best taught in a prison camp--no need for schools.

    Schools these days have higher security than some prisons.

  115. @Ed
    Related: WSJ has a story about migrants "rescued" at sea being returned to Libya (oh the humanity!)
    Here is a quote from an African and future Italian:
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/libyan-coast-guard-returns-europe-bound-migrants-to-war-zone-11575723601#comments_sector

    One of them is Musa Abdullah, of Benin, who had paid 3,000 dinars (about $2,100) for a spot on the raft that was intercepted by the Fezzan 658. Mr. Abdullah had been imprisoned in Libya for six months after militiamen stopped him for not having legal documents. In detention, the 28-year-old said, guards beat him until his parents paid a bribe to release him.

    “When they return us to land, they return us to a prison,” Mr. Abdullah said. “And we’ll pay to get out and try again.” He is driven by the stories of those who have made it to Europe, including a friend who recently married. “My dream is to reach Italy,” Mr. Abdullah said. “And marry an Italian woman.”
     

  116. CC English: last straw for Western Civ, not with a bang but an informational text
    CC Social Studies: the Zinn-sick soul
    CC Science: SciAm/NatGeo-style propaganda with a decent side of rigorous practice
    CC Math: how the top .1% of math teachers already teach

  117. College students intending to major in education are typically in the lower quartile of SAT scores.

    https://chariotlearning.com/average-sat-score-by-intended-college-major/

    There are limits to their abilities. One cannot teach what one does not understand.

    • Replies: @education realist
    Most teachers don't major in education. Moreover, you can't be a teacher without passing a credential test, and that weeds out a lot of people who want to be teachers but can't pass the test.

    And that's old news, so try not to be tedious.
  118. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Joe Schmoe
    "negro children should never, ever, EVER be sent to the same schools as White children."

    Nah, any black kid who can behave is fine, even if he isn't bright at all. Even if a school is 100% black, any nice kid deserves to be in a class without abuse. All abusive and disruptive students need to be removed to special rooms without contact with the nicer kids. This is just human decency. I think that parents should have to pay fines and/or do community service with their kids in order for an offending student to earn his way back into a good classroom. The student is legally entitled to a free, appropriate public education. If he is disruptive, then a special room is appropriate for him.

    The educable black kids do better with decent black teachers than with decent white teachers, but either way they do okay as long as the education is geared to their actual IQ nad firm, fair, comprehensible-to-the-kid ar consistently, persistently applied. The ineducable blacks-nothing matters anyway. They are ineducable. They either need to be put to work doing a job they can do at which someone can make a profit or they need to be SSD’d or separated.

  119. @Anonymous

    I’ve got a better idea:

    Get the US Feral Gov’t out of our children’s education!
    Kill the D.O.E. Let the teachers teach, and let the parents teach. Quit spending my and my neighbors’ money on any of these bullshit programs! Bill Gate can kiss my ass.
     
    This kind of reckless talk will get your doors kicked in in the middle of the night in post-Trump America. The Department of Education has lots of armed special agents and civil rights lawyers in all 50 states.

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/65/b9/48/65b9484b6a835e33d048d18c8e93c421.jpg
    https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.ed.gov%2Fabout%2Foffices%2Flist%2Foig%2Fimages%2Fedoig.jpg
     

    They can all kiss my ass after Bill Gates is done. Yes, I know that all kind of Feral Agencies that nobody would think would need guns go out in the hundreds and thousands to that Fed LEO training center (FLETCA?) right across from the Glynn Co. airport to train how to shoot. They are still small in numbers compared to armed America, though.

  120. @gregor
    Undergrad math majors are about 50/50 nowadays last time I checked. Male mathematical talent gets split among more fields. The female math talent gets concentrated in straight math, especially math ed.

    Correction: It looks like the female proportion is in the low 40s. It’s actually gone down a little but it’s never been 50/50.

  121. @gcochran
    It was stupid. No testing of whether it worked before national introduction.

    Your critique is that of implementation. I’m talking about the concept itself; that of a baseline. Much of the opposition was just knee-jerk grugbrained takes of the kind you just displayed.

  122. Move education to the right?

    I see it as being amenable to leftist indoctrination with “facts” about Orange Man, for example, or the Holocaust.

  123. @Ed
    Related: WSJ has a story about migrants "rescued" at sea being returned to Libya (oh the humanity!)
    Here is a quote from an African and future Italian:
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/libyan-coast-guard-returns-europe-bound-migrants-to-war-zone-11575723601#comments_sector

    One of them is Musa Abdullah, of Benin, who had paid 3,000 dinars (about $2,100) for a spot on the raft that was intercepted by the Fezzan 658. Mr. Abdullah had been imprisoned in Libya for six months after militiamen stopped him for not having legal documents. In detention, the 28-year-old said, guards beat him until his parents paid a bribe to release him.

    “When they return us to land, they return us to a prison,” Mr. Abdullah said. “And we’ll pay to get out and try again.” He is driven by the stories of those who have made it to Europe, including a friend who recently married. “My dream is to reach Italy,” Mr. Abdullah said. “And marry an Italian woman.”
     

    Not marry an Italian woman? Sounds like invasion to me.

  124. @South Texas Guy

    It also didn’t help that a lot of the critics forgot what school was like when they attended.
     
    Yeah, the whole 'learning styles' thing has pretty much been discredited. But it did get some Ed. professors their Phd's. And that was the whole point.

    Yeah, the whole ‘learning styles’ thing has pretty much been discredited. But it did get some Ed. professors their Phd’s. And that was the whole point.

    Wow. I believe you, but this doesn’t ring true to me at all. My kids have all been very different in what works best for them, but I can see how it wouldn’t really matter in a large classroom. There, you have to do what works for large groups, obviously.

    • Replies: @South Texas Guy
    I do believe there are 'feathered edges' to a one style technique. But it would astound you at how many parents and grandparents believe their kids are special and fit into a different category. The reality is hands on activities (or maybe using real world examples) work because they show kids what they're supposed to be learning, and almost as important, they break up the regular classroom experience and help alleviate boredom.

    Bascially, the best and most efficient way is for a teacher to talk some, the students to read more, and then give them a quiz/text to see if they were paying attention.

    I'm not saying the parents of kids with issues (behavior, attention, etc.) aren't sincere. I know for a fact most are, but they're blinded by the fact that it's their kid. Non parents can easily see the faults of kids, and don't immediately think the misbehaving kid is 'on the spectrum,' has 'mild/moderate/severe ADHD,' or a diagnosible anger control problem.
  125. @MikeatMikedotMike
    A good start to repairing public education would be to eliminate homosexuals from any teaching or administrative position, and then restoring the teaching staff to at least 75% male. A requirement of female teachers would be that they must be at least 40 years old in order to teach.

    I happen to know a quite a few female teachers, from ages 24 up. Every single one of them, without exception, has developed an extremely cynical and hateful attitude towards the students they teach. How many of these women then redirect those feelings toward their own kids?

    As far as CC goes whatever its original intention, the product that was rolled out was a mess of diversity indoctrination and bizarro math formulation. My older daughter's school switched to it after her third grade. The way students are required to calculate math problems was every bit as over complicated and backward as you've might have heard.

    A good start to repairing public education would be to eliminate homosexuals from any teaching or administrative position, and then restoring the teaching staff to at least 75% male. A requirement of female teachers would be that they must be at least 40 years old in order to teach.

    Did you not read Steve’s article on PISA scores by ethnicity. Nice White lady teachers are doing just fine, thank you.

    Of course, I know that doesn’t matter. Facts never do.

  126. @Jack Henson
    I kept my copy of Dune inside the copy of Wuthering Heights they forced on me in high school.

    Thinking back, a great deal of assigned literature was feminine. Sarah, Plain and Tall, The Witch of Blackbird Pond, Cheaper by the Dozen, etc.

    I remember books like Johnny Tremain, Rifles for Watie, Where the Red Fern Grows, etc being outliers.

    As far as history goes, even back around the late 90s early aughts, it was "blacks and wimmen made America".

    Elementary school children and older all spend way too much time in front of computers. Many have increasingly shortened attention spans and they don’t like to read books. This is particularly true with the boys and it is particularly true with fiction. As early as 3-4 grade, children are already starting to distinguish between what they like and don’t like. When you have feminist teachers shoving gynocentric literature down their throats you end up with boys who end up hating school. But that is a feature not a bug. And it only gets worse as they get older.

  127. @Jon
    So, was Common Core actually good for the top, but not the middle or bottom, and thus had to be scrapped because it just made the gaps worse? Or was it a failure across the board?

    So, was Common Core actually good for the top, but not the middle or bottom, and thus had to be scrapped because it just made the gaps worse? Or was it a failure across the board?

    I don’t have any data, but that is my surmise. The whole point of common core math was to ensure that students actually understood math, rather than just performing rote calculations over and over again. The problem is that this approach is not suitable for average children.

    • Replies: @MBlanc46
    That wasn’t my understanding of CC math, but I may be misinformed. I’m not sure what level of maths the average child is capable of learning, but I am certain that strict tracking is required in maths education.
  128. Yeah, I’ve never understood Steve’s admiration for that idiot. Coleman’s a consultant. All he knows how to do is talk. In no way was he trying to move education slightly to the right. He had no clear vision because, again, he’s a consultant.

    Also don’t understand the constant mention of him being a debater. Noah Millman, who competed against Coleman and Rosin, had this to say about debating:

    “By the time I was engaged in the activity, high school policy (or “cross-ex”) debate had evolved in a highly technical direction. Arguments followed a rigid formal structure, replete with obscure lingo, and delivered at the speed of a tobacco auctioneer. From the perspective of most of us debaters, the winner of a debate could only be discerned by someone experienced enough to accurately record the flow of argumentation, who could understand the lingo, who knew the arcane rules of the debate world. ”

    That’s not a description to inspire faith in his good persuasion skills, but rather a chameleon, who sings the song someone wants to hear.

    Steve’s story isn’t true, much less “the real story of Common Core”. In no way whatsoever was Common Core a move to the right. The very idea is absurd. Alice’s comments are basically correct. In the math side, it was an open attempt to bring in integrated math and NCTM procedures. It was the very opposite of moving to the right–it was a dog whistle in every way to the left.

    As for the socalled feminization of English class….I don’t know what to say. The fact is that overwhelmingly, kids don’t read the books anymore. They look up the synopsis. Males and females alike. And to the extent there’s any attempt to make kids write actual essays in a meaningful way, it’s restricted to the top 10% of kids, for whom the switch from fiction to non-fiction would be completely irrelevant.

    Moreover, the type of reading source material changes were all focused on high school readings and as anyone who follows me on Twitter knows, there was zip nada zilch change to high school curriculum over the past decade. The cool thing about common core for high school is that pretty much every state that had end of course exams stopped having end of course exams. Less testing! Whoo! I think New York still has those regent things, but they’re faked anyway.

    The idea that Coleman had some sort of plan, that he was doing anything other than talking himself into a job that he had no real intesrest in and had never thought of until 3 seconds before he got the job, is just hilarious. Coleman was a consultant. He studies up enough to sound good to whoever’s buying, then writes a plan and moves on. In this case, he moved to the College Board and utterly fucking wrecked the SAT, which has made it much easier for schools to start shrugging it off.

    Here’s the only real thing that Common Core achieved: it showed people who could learn from experience that there’s absolutely no way to improve math performance.

    How? Well, for a good 20-30 years, there’d be a concentrated effort to improve NAEP test scores. In 4th and 8th grade, they succeeded. Scores went up considerably. But 12th grade scores languished. There are many reasons for this, but since high school math teachers are far more qualified to teach math than elementary school teachers, it didn’t make much sense. Until someone finally realized, as I’ve said many times, that high school math is a quantum leap in difficulty from k-7 math, taking only the most difficult aspects of elementary schoolmath (ratios, percentages, and fractions) which the kids never really understood, and leaving most of the rest of the arithmetic behind.

    So behind the scenes, rarely discussed, it was begun to realize that we had to start shoving more conceptual difficulty down into k-8. The high test scores were great, but they weren’t giving the kids the background that they needed to succeed in higher math. If you read this story on the guy who wrote most of the math standards (key attribute: buddy of Coleman), you’ll see that standards began by a bunch of business and test folks deciding what they wanted high school students to now. The development team worked backwards (not mentioned, but obvious: shoving down concepts into elementary school.)

    Now, for all the talk about how elementary school teachers aren’t qualified to teach math, the fact is that it’s still the case that 11th grade math test scores are the lowest. However, the change has been dramatic. Far fewer 3-8 kids are meeting standards or higher. They now profile much more closely t 11th graders. For example, in many states the number of k-8 kids meeting or exceeding standards used to be consistently 50-60%, while 11th graders were 30%, maybe 35. Now, it’s more common to see 3-8 kids meeting or exceeding at the 35-40 level, while 11th graders are slightly lower.

    In other words, by pushing the conceptual difficulty of math down into lower grades, demanding kids know why not just how (which is the very essence of a progressive goal), the CC math standards turned elementary school kids into high school kids–most of them don’t know what the hell they’re doing.

    The teachers complained–not becuase they don’t like math, although they don’t–but because they were seeing far fewer kids understand the math they were teaching. The parents shrieked because they didn’t like the math. everyone complained. And test scores dropped, because the tests were harder.

    Lesson learned: making elementary school math more difficult just confuses the less intelligent kids and doesn’t give anything more to the bright kids.

    That’s what Common Core taught anyone willing to learn.

    That doesn’t include Dan Willingham, who just wrote an oped complaining that elementary school teachers aren’t smart enough. Translated: he wants to go back to the harder common core math, but has fooled himself that the failure that he saw, that everyone saw, was due to dumb teachers.

    Except again, those dumb teachers were getting better results than the better trained teachers at the higher level. So they’re smart enough.

    Anyway: Coleman’s an idiot, albeit a typical high IQ asshole who can sell well. He did not move education even slightly to the right. He achieved nothing. Common Core failed because it tried to move high IQ topics down lower in math and taught us we couldn’t. And it did nothing for English.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    My son just took the SAT. He said one of the problems in the Calculator math section required finding 10% of 45.
  129. @anon
    College students intending to major in education are typically in the lower quartile of SAT scores.

    https://chariotlearning.com/average-sat-score-by-intended-college-major/

    There are limits to their abilities. One cannot teach what one does not understand.

    Most teachers don’t major in education. Moreover, you can’t be a teacher without passing a credential test, and that weeds out a lot of people who want to be teachers but can’t pass the test.

    And that’s old news, so try not to be tedious.

    • Replies: @anon
    Most teachers don’t major in education.

    Citation needed. In my state almost every secondary and most primary teachers have a Bachelors in Education, because that's the easiest route to certification. Often they pick up Masters later on, again from the ED college. Perhaps your state is different?

    Moreover, you can’t be a teacher without passing a credential test, and that weeds out a lot of people who want to be teachers but can’t pass the test.

    Citation needed and a link to an example of this "credential test'. In my state the most tedious part of becoming certified is the period of student teaching.

    And that’s old news, so try not to be tedious.

    Sorry that facts are triggering. Have a chill pill.
  130. @KR
    I was a victim of new math -- 1970s. It took two years of studying with my physicist father to regain the years I had lost.

    New math was gone by the 70s.

  131. @Jack D
    Putting aside your stark raving mad anti-Semitism (any sane Jewish person doesn't want to bring down the temple on the goyim because they are in the same building - Samson did it only as a last ditch measure of desperation after that shiksa ruined his life) you are almost right - MOST blacks cannot be educated in the same setting as whites. However, there is a small % that can. At the elementary level you can take the top 10 or 15% of blacks without too much trouble. By the high school years, you can only find maybe 5% who could sit in the same classroom and not be lost as the curriculum gets tougher. In a large city with a large black population you can gather all the talented tenth blacks together in magnet schools with an equal number of whites and Asians and still have education going on.

    What Asians, Hispanics, subcons and Mohameddans want is irrelevant, because none of them should even be here in the first place.

     

    Maybe you are right and they shouldn't but they are - you can't just dismiss people with a handwave like that. For example, in LA, 75% of the students are Hispanic and 10% of the student population is Non-Hispanic white, so whites are the ones who are irrelevant at this point. They are here and they are going to be here for the rest of their long lives (most of them are American born and not deportable unless we change the Constitution) and either our society educates them in some fashion or else they are going to be an even bigger problem than they would be otherwise.

    The bigger problems are coming. Educate them, don’t educate them. Whites are going to have to fight them, separate from them, or be crushed by them.

  132. @Rosie

    So, was Common Core actually good for the top, but not the middle or bottom, and thus had to be scrapped because it just made the gaps worse? Or was it a failure across the board?
     
    I don't have any data, but that is my surmise. The whole point of common core math was to ensure that students actually understood math, rather than just performing rote calculations over and over again. The problem is that this approach is not suitable for average children.

    That wasn’t my understanding of CC math, but I may be misinformed. I’m not sure what level of maths the average child is capable of learning, but I am certain that strict tracking is required in maths education.

  133. @anon
    I like the idea of national education standards.

    Why?

    I suspect your wariness is due to the belief that many of these standards will become politicized, and they will. Some subjects are going to be wildly politicized (history, civics, literature.) So leave those subjects out of the standards. But anything relatively apolitical, (math, science, music, grammar, rhetoric, etc.) would benefit from this treatment, in my opinion, for a few reasons:

    If the results are published it allows parents to be more informed in choosing a school. (of course this has to go hand in hand with school choice) It also allows people to objectively evaluate how different school systems are doing and/or how different teaching methods are doing.

    Like standardized testing it allows people of high ability from humble circumstances to be given a shot. Some kid from a tiny high school in West Virginia can get straight As at his high school but this isn’t going to count for much compared to the kid who got straight As at Andover or Exeter because everyone assumes (rightly so) that the level of rigor is different. But if common standards are present the kid from West Virginia at least has a shot. Without the common standard he’s not even in the game.

    It helps people who are homeschooling or in smaller districts know what to teach, in particular what to move on to if a student has outrun the teacher’s knowledge. Maybe the teacher doesn’t herself know the subject but if she has a bright kid she can at least set them up with some resources if she knows what is supposed to come next.

    Anyway I think these sort of objective national standards would be a body-blow against the entrenched educational bureaucracies that stay relevant by being very wishy washy about what they really accomplish.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    I see what you are saying.

    My father was a college professor. That meant a few times in his career he could simply pack up and move the family to a completely different part of the country for a year, then back again. Since different school systems do things differently, it made the transition for the kids less than perfect.

    Since American families move a bit, it would be wonderful to know one could move one’s kids with minimal disruption of academics.

    The extreme case of standardization is France. The saying is every school in the country teaches the same lessons every day. That is probably not what we want in the US, but it makes it easier to move from one part of France to another.

    Of course, moving country to country is rarely easy. I turned down a job in Germany to prevent the complete disruption of my kids’ education. Even a native German took a demotion in the company to keep his kids in Wisconsin, rather than German; schools. He said his German-speaking kids would be completely lost, and warned me that my English speaking kids would have it even worse.
    , @anon
    Anyway I think these sort of objective national standards would be a body-blow against the entrenched educational bureaucracies that stay relevant by being very wishy washy about what they really accomplish.

    Do you have any evidence to support this?

    Have you ever heard of the University of Chicago "Great Books" program? Or the Harvard Classics?

    Used to be Americans could figure out on their own what an education looked like. That's largely been taken away from us, and you want to finish the job. Why?
    , @anon
    I suspect your wariness is due to the belief that many of these standards will become politicized, and they will.

    They already are.

    Some subjects are going to be wildly politicized (history, civics, literature.) So leave those subjects out of the standards.

    Your ideal world may be interesting, but it isn't where we all live. So this suggestion not only is a non-starter, it indicates that you are not really serious about the topic.

    But anything relatively apolitical, (math, science, music, grammar, rhetoric, etc.) would benefit from this treatment, in my opinion, for a few reasons:

    That ship sailed a couple of generations ago. Multi-cultural empires do not work that way.

    Paleo Liberal
    Since American families move a bit, it would be wonderful to know one could move one’s kids with minimal disruption of academics.

    I see, millions of people should have their choices reduced in order to increase the convenience of a rather small minority of well-off families. Given that Americans are no longer moving as much as they used to, perhaps because of ongoing, aggressive immigration, this whine is moot.

    What you two are arguing for is central planning. Why do you want that?
  134. Anon[289] • Disclaimer says:

    OT: This website says the reason why the Democrats are galloping ahead on impeachment is this:

    Ukrainian MP Says Burisma Financed Clinton Campaign With $10M Unmarked Cash, Biden Personally Prevented Money Laundering Witness From Entering USA

    https://creativedestructionmedia.com/investigations/2019/11/18/this-is-why-they-must-impeach-burisma-financed-clinton-campaign-with-10m-unmarked-cash-biden-personally-prevented-money-laundering-witness-from-entering-usa/

    If so, the Democrats panicked when Trump asked what the heck Biden’s son was up to in the Ukraine and decided they had to get rid of him immediately.

    I wonder how much cash has been donated to the Democratic National Committee from Ukraine? Is is possible this has been going on for all of Obama’s tenure, and the money was being used to finance all the Democratic House and Senate races, and the reason why the Dems are in full spazzbot mode is because they’re terrified a major source of revenue for them is in danger of being cut off?

  135. anon[416] • Disclaimer says:
    @education realist
    Most teachers don't major in education. Moreover, you can't be a teacher without passing a credential test, and that weeds out a lot of people who want to be teachers but can't pass the test.

    And that's old news, so try not to be tedious.

    Most teachers don’t major in education.

    Citation needed. In my state almost every secondary and most primary teachers have a Bachelors in Education, because that’s the easiest route to certification. Often they pick up Masters later on, again from the ED college. Perhaps your state is different?

    Moreover, you can’t be a teacher without passing a credential test, and that weeds out a lot of people who want to be teachers but can’t pass the test.

    Citation needed and a link to an example of this “credential test’. In my state the most tedious part of becoming certified is the period of student teaching.

    And that’s old news, so try not to be tedious.

    Sorry that facts are triggering. Have a chill pill.

  136. @Jon
    Can you point me in the direction of a good right-wing reading list? Serious question, I have young kids, so I am always looking for these kinds of things.

    George Orwell’s “Animal Farm” is easy to read and great for discussion.

  137. @Paleo Liberal
    There you have the crux of the situation for those of us on the Left.

    The average left-of-center Joe or Jane or Pat is quite reasonable. The problem is, the money on the left is in two places — the crazy left and the billionaire boys club left. The crazy left is quite useful to the billionaire boys club; as long as we are arguing about the proper pronouns and invisible backpacks we won’t notice the billionaires picking our pockets.

    The crazy left has the megaphone.

    The billionaire left owns the megaphone.

    The comments sections on left wing web sites are sone of the few places the sane and non-rich can get a word in edgewise.

    Sounds like a very plausible hypothesis explaining the astonishing intellectual deficiciencies seen on today’s left.

  138. @El Dato
    Math: Working in imagined domains explorable by symbol processing where things a certain (TRUE/FALSE if you want to slum it in the classical logic ghetto) and facts can be elicited in good part by syntactical transformation of character strings ("proofs"). You write programs in Coq.

    Statistics: You get the toolings from Math, but now everything is noisier than the Nostromo at sublight, causality is new concept entering the field post-2000, and you actually have to make contact with the real world in a way that may involve getting acquainted with a legal counsel. You write programs in R.

    causality is new concept entering the field post-2000,

    That’s just a retarded thing to say.

    It would be like me claiming that p-hacking wasn’t a known thing until 2019, based on the fact that I had just read this neat paper by some guys as UCSD (great little paper, by the way – worth it just for the reference list).

    Anyway… back to causality…

    Granger was 1969, and his work didn’t just emerge out of a clear blue sky. Ronald Fisher wrote extensively in the 1950s on why the link between smoking and cancer was causal, not simply correlation.

    Stat theory has known the difference between correlation and causality since the 19th century (arguably at that point in time it didn’t really deserve to be called a body of theory).

    .

    That’s unrelated to – and uncorrelated with – the problem that makes it seem as if most statistical work is shit (and I am absolutley in agreement: most of it is shit).

    A very large proportion of people who implement statistical method in their doings don’t give a fuck. And that goes across all research disciplines – from medicine/pharma, all the way to the real charlatanry of psycholosophasters and sociologists.

    All they want is to show a ‘link’ between two things: they learn about p-values (probably from the Help file of whatever desktop app they use) and then they torture the data until they get values < 0.05.

    (Later, reasonably talented statisticians worked out how to establish if an entire field's literature had been finagled in that way: p-hacking became more detectable, even though the tools developed to test for it have low power).

    .

    Likewise, a lot of the current abitrageurs into ‘data science’ are CompSci people who’ve done the equivalent of first-semester undergrad Stats… they are blissfully unaware of ‘arcana’ like orders of integration, and/or the Gauss-Markov conditions – so they produce output that would fail if it was a 3rd year Econometrics assignment. The same is true of most MBA-consultant types, and almost everybody I’ve ever seen do ‘quantitative’ policy analysis within government.

    Dissing stats on that basis is real ‘baby with the bathwater’ stuff.

    References

    Granger, C. (1969). “Investigating Causal Relations by Econometric Models and Cross-spectral Methods“. Econometrica. 37 (3): 424–438

    • Replies: @Justvisiting

    Stat theory has known the difference between correlation and causality since the 19th century
     
    I believe you--but would be interested in a more detailed explanation. Are there any articles/texts for the layperson that can show us how to identify causality when we see it?

    (I am in the "all statistics are total garbage" school at this point, but I am willing to concede that it is theoretically possible for them to mean something--help me out here, please.)
  139. @South Texas Guy

    Hirsch’s old Core Knowledge idea that to improve reading comprehension, we should teach kids more facts so ignorance won’t get as much in the way of comprehension.
     

    But that’s not the way anything happens in the faddish ed biz. Instead, they just started their own fad with, as far as I can tell, zero testing and talked 40 states into adopting it wholesale.
     
    Back when this thing came into vogue, I was still a beat reporter, and several principals I knew (solid, not ed. nutjobs) thought it would help out. (BTW, it never amazes me to hear teachers, principals, etc. talk about their jobs as if they are on the front line in Afghanistan.) (BTW, ex teacher).

    Simple fix. 1) impose more discipline, 2) don't let school principals with pushing problems down the line, 3) don't let slack ass parents get off easy when they stick for their Finkelstein Shit Kids, 4) Most importantly, track students by IQ (not an exact science, but close enough), and teach them at their level. I can't tell you about the number of times times I've had to deal with dumbass students, and their parent who claim 'but he's smart.'

    Anyone with a sub 90 IQ can only do basic math, and basic grammar. Forcing them to take both algebra course plus geometry is a waste of time. Same goes for advanced literary study, or history.

    Agreed.

  140. @Rosie

    Yeah, the whole ‘learning styles’ thing has pretty much been discredited. But it did get some Ed. professors their Phd’s. And that was the whole point.
     
    Wow. I believe you, but this doesn't ring true to me at all. My kids have all been very different in what works best for them, but I can see how it wouldn't really matter in a large classroom. There, you have to do what works for large groups, obviously.

    I do believe there are ‘feathered edges’ to a one style technique. But it would astound you at how many parents and grandparents believe their kids are special and fit into a different category. The reality is hands on activities (or maybe using real world examples) work because they show kids what they’re supposed to be learning, and almost as important, they break up the regular classroom experience and help alleviate boredom.

    Bascially, the best and most efficient way is for a teacher to talk some, the students to read more, and then give them a quiz/text to see if they were paying attention.

    I’m not saying the parents of kids with issues (behavior, attention, etc.) aren’t sincere. I know for a fact most are, but they’re blinded by the fact that it’s their kid. Non parents can easily see the faults of kids, and don’t immediately think the misbehaving kid is ‘on the spectrum,’ has ‘mild/moderate/severe ADHD,’ or a diagnosible anger control problem.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    I have seen a range of teachers, and of coaches and principals.

    Some can tell the strengths and weaknesses of a kid pretty quickly. Others can not. The ones that can and do are often a godsend. The ones that can’t or won’t are at best an obstacle to get around, and at worst can destroy a kid’s life. I have known of cases in which a good teacher of coach or principal has made an enormous positive difference in a kid’s life. I have seen that a few times with my own kids.

    I have also seen the opposite. Teachers or coaches or principals who completely misread a kid, but think they have that kid pegged. The results can be anywhere from bothersome to disastrous for the kid.

  141. We homeschool.

    Course materials are easy to find: Avoid any book that claims to be CC compatible.

    Yes, CC is just another, public education gimmick. Keep those tax dollars flowing.

    What’s my screen name, again?

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Thea
    Homeschooling is asymmetric with girls turning out rather nicely but boys having social deficiencies.

    The boys develop a bizarre failure to launch where they can’t read subtle hints such as when others are getting irritated or quite angry with them. This can be dangerous if they offend the wrong man. At best they are viewed with contempt as spoiled and soft.

    They are overtly “nice” to girls which comes across as trying too hard to please and rather off-putting.

    It’s rather sad as these are decent kids but they will have to learn a hard lesson as adults foisted on the rest of us at 12.

    The Duggars provide a warning. I’ve seen this play out in real life again and again.

  142. Didn’t common core literally teach kids to fuck up the operation orders, resulting in different results than when using the normal way?

  143. @SimpleSong
    I suspect your wariness is due to the belief that many of these standards will become politicized, and they will. Some subjects are going to be wildly politicized (history, civics, literature.) So leave those subjects out of the standards. But anything relatively apolitical, (math, science, music, grammar, rhetoric, etc.) would benefit from this treatment, in my opinion, for a few reasons:

    If the results are published it allows parents to be more informed in choosing a school. (of course this has to go hand in hand with school choice) It also allows people to objectively evaluate how different school systems are doing and/or how different teaching methods are doing.

    Like standardized testing it allows people of high ability from humble circumstances to be given a shot. Some kid from a tiny high school in West Virginia can get straight As at his high school but this isn't going to count for much compared to the kid who got straight As at Andover or Exeter because everyone assumes (rightly so) that the level of rigor is different. But if common standards are present the kid from West Virginia at least has a shot. Without the common standard he's not even in the game.

    It helps people who are homeschooling or in smaller districts know what to teach, in particular what to move on to if a student has outrun the teacher's knowledge. Maybe the teacher doesn't herself know the subject but if she has a bright kid she can at least set them up with some resources if she knows what is supposed to come next.

    Anyway I think these sort of objective national standards would be a body-blow against the entrenched educational bureaucracies that stay relevant by being very wishy washy about what they really accomplish.

    I see what you are saying.

    My father was a college professor. That meant a few times in his career he could simply pack up and move the family to a completely different part of the country for a year, then back again. Since different school systems do things differently, it made the transition for the kids less than perfect.

    Since American families move a bit, it would be wonderful to know one could move one’s kids with minimal disruption of academics.

    The extreme case of standardization is France. The saying is every school in the country teaches the same lessons every day. That is probably not what we want in the US, but it makes it easier to move from one part of France to another.

    Of course, moving country to country is rarely easy. I turned down a job in Germany to prevent the complete disruption of my kids’ education. Even a native German took a demotion in the company to keep his kids in Wisconsin, rather than German; schools. He said his German-speaking kids would be completely lost, and warned me that my English speaking kids would have it even worse.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    The saying is every school in the country teaches the same lessons every day.
     
    More precisely, it was that the Minister of Education could look at his watch and know which page of which book every nine-year-old in the country was reading.
  144. @South Texas Guy
    I do believe there are 'feathered edges' to a one style technique. But it would astound you at how many parents and grandparents believe their kids are special and fit into a different category. The reality is hands on activities (or maybe using real world examples) work because they show kids what they're supposed to be learning, and almost as important, they break up the regular classroom experience and help alleviate boredom.

    Bascially, the best and most efficient way is for a teacher to talk some, the students to read more, and then give them a quiz/text to see if they were paying attention.

    I'm not saying the parents of kids with issues (behavior, attention, etc.) aren't sincere. I know for a fact most are, but they're blinded by the fact that it's their kid. Non parents can easily see the faults of kids, and don't immediately think the misbehaving kid is 'on the spectrum,' has 'mild/moderate/severe ADHD,' or a diagnosible anger control problem.

    I have seen a range of teachers, and of coaches and principals.

    Some can tell the strengths and weaknesses of a kid pretty quickly. Others can not. The ones that can and do are often a godsend. The ones that can’t or won’t are at best an obstacle to get around, and at worst can destroy a kid’s life. I have known of cases in which a good teacher of coach or principal has made an enormous positive difference in a kid’s life. I have seen that a few times with my own kids.

    I have also seen the opposite. Teachers or coaches or principals who completely misread a kid, but think they have that kid pegged. The results can be anywhere from bothersome to disastrous for the kid.

  145. @Kratoklastes

    causality is new concept entering the field post-2000,
     
    That's just a retarded thing to say.

    It would be like me claiming that p-hacking wasn't a known thing until 2019, based on the fact that I had just read this neat paper by some guys as UCSD (great little paper, by the way - worth it just for the reference list).

    Anyway... back to causality...

    Granger was 1969, and his work didn't just emerge out of a clear blue sky. Ronald Fisher wrote extensively in the 1950s on why the link between smoking and cancer was causal, not simply correlation.

    Stat theory has known the difference between correlation and causality since the 19th century (arguably at that point in time it didn't really deserve to be called a body of theory).

    .

    That's unrelated to - and uncorrelated with - the problem that makes it seem as if most statistical work is shit (and I am absolutley in agreement: most of it is shit).

    A very large proportion of people who implement statistical method in their doings don't give a fuck. And that goes across all research disciplines - from medicine/pharma, all the way to the real charlatanry of psycholosophasters and sociologists.

    All they want is to show a 'link' between two things: they learn about p-values (probably from the Help file of whatever desktop app they use) and then they torture the data until they get values < 0.05.

    (Later, reasonably talented statisticians worked out how to establish if an entire field's literature had been finagled in that way: p-hacking became more detectable, even though the tools developed to test for it have low power).

    .

    Likewise, a lot of the current abitrageurs into 'data science' are CompSci people who've done the equivalent of first-semester undergrad Stats... they are blissfully unaware of 'arcana' like orders of integration, and/or the Gauss-Markov conditions - so they produce output that would fail if it was a 3rd year Econometrics assignment. The same is true of most MBA-consultant types, and almost everybody I've ever seen do 'quantitative' policy analysis within government.

    Dissing stats on that basis is real 'baby with the bathwater' stuff.




    References

    Granger, C. (1969). "Investigating Causal Relations by Econometric Models and Cross-spectral Methods". Econometrica. 37 (3): 424–438

    Stat theory has known the difference between correlation and causality since the 19th century

    I believe you–but would be interested in a more detailed explanation. Are there any articles/texts for the layperson that can show us how to identify causality when we see it?

    (I am in the “all statistics are total garbage” school at this point, but I am willing to concede that it is theoretically possible for them to mean something–help me out here, please.)

  146. @Kronos
    Oh the pain is real....

    I’ve steadily moved to the notion that education is intentionally (and increasing) spiked on purpose. If you had a decent middle management job these young uppity kids might take that job away. Better to water down their credentials and spike their classes with (DIE) cyanide so no employers will tough it. So they possess no skills and their cognitive ability is in question.

    Job security is nice!

    Rather like how boys aren’t taught how to be men,so they remain forever superannuated boys. It keeps the supply of men much lower and leaves those men well supplied with women seeking men.it was greatly to the benefit of the first men who thought up the idea, like the first man who sent his wife to work to buy a house got an advantage in the real estate market.

    Of course, after a while, you get a societal collapse. But then, apres moi, le deluge.

  147. @Wilkey
    My solution to American education:
    1) Lengthen the school year
    2) Higher standards
    3) Be more willing to actually fail kids, and to tell them they aren’t college material, and shift them into voc-ed programs.

    It’s not magic. It works just fine in European countries.

    The problem with that is no one likes the idea of increasing the dropout rate, or of vocational education, and you can’t tell black kids they aren’t college material. Basically race is what drives a lot of the silliness in American education policy and what makes it impossible to reform. Perhaps we should have an entirely separate, but equal, system for blacks, where we could continue to pretend they are every bit as likely to attend college as whites, right up until the time they rob the convenience store or have their third child out-of-wedlock.

    Many students won’t benefit from higher standards because they just aren’t all that bright. Raise the stakes in high school though and maybe 10 or even 20% of kids, mostly white, will up their game, and get more out of their education we spend so damn much on.

    Perhaps we should have an entirely separate, but equal, system for blacks,

    Been there, done that. Anyway, as a practical matter, in big cities most blacks already attend mostly non-white schools and in prosperous suburbs there are not that many blacks.

    I agree with you that refusal to recognize racial differences is what is driving educational policy in the wrong direction. Once you account for race (and therefore IQ), American school achievement is about where it should be (but America is running out of white people and there are not that many Asians, so the averages are going to keep dropping). However, on the individual school level it is not that big a driver because either blacks are in separate schools already or sort themselves into different classes anyway.

  148. Can you point me in the direction of a good right-wing reading list? Serious question, I have young kids, so I am always looking for these kinds of things.

    Vox Day has long suggested right-wing reading lists for adults, and recently his publishing house has begun work on a “Junior Classics” collection for kids. Good idea.

    • Replies: @Halloween Princesses Are Real Princesses
    For 2019 Vox Day's adult reading list (see right magin of blog) includes:

    A History of the Peninsular War, Vol. I, Charles Oman
    The Virtue of Nationalism, Yoram Hazony
    A History of the Peninsular War, Vol. II, Charles Oman
    A History of the Peninsular War, Vol. III, Charles Oman
    A History of the Peninsular War, Vol. IV, Charles Oman
    Killing Commendatore, Haruki Murakami
    The Right Side of History, Ben Shapiro
    1Q84, Haruki Murakami
    Wellington's Army, Charles Oman
    From Bauhaus to Our House, Tom Wolfe
    Hooking Up, Tom Wolfe
    A Hymn to Old Age, Hermann Hesse
    Klingsor's Last Summer, Hermann Hesse
    A Man in Full, Tom Wolfe
    I am Charlotte Simmons, Tom Wolfe
    Tender is the Night, F. Scott Fitzgerald
    A History of England, Charles Oman
    In the Beginning Was the Command Line, Neal Stephenson
    Neuromancer, William Gibson
    Count Zero, William Gibson
    Mona Lisa Overdrive, William Gibson
    Fall, or, Dodge in Hell, Neal Stephenson
    Zero History, William Gibson
    Pattern Recognition, William Gibson
    Warwick the Kingmaker, Charles Oman
    The Jews, Hillair Belloc
    The Nautical Chart, Arturo Perez-Reverte
    The Seville Communion, Arturo Perez-Reverte
    What We Become, Arturo Perez-Reverte
    Captain Alatriste, Arturo Perez-Reverte
    Purity of Blood, Arturo Perez-Reverte
    The Sun Over Breda, Arturo Perez-Reverte
    The Children of Hurin, JRR Tolkien
    The King's Gold, Arturo Perez-Reverte
    The Cavalier in the Yellow Doublet, Arturo Perez-Reverte
    The Master of Go, Yusanari Kawabata
    The Trojan Mouse, Sam Lively
    The Tale of Genji, Murasaki Shikibu
    , @Halloween Princesses Are Real Princesses
    From our experience, you should also look into

    Laura Ingalls Wilder's "Little House on the Prairie" series

    L. Frank Baum's "Oz" series

    Both authors are known for one book but actually produced long series of great depth. Baum is wildly imaginative and funny, while Wilder is intensely realistic and profoundly American.

    What do other parents here suggest?
  149. @Jack Henson
    I kept my copy of Dune inside the copy of Wuthering Heights they forced on me in high school.

    Thinking back, a great deal of assigned literature was feminine. Sarah, Plain and Tall, The Witch of Blackbird Pond, Cheaper by the Dozen, etc.

    I remember books like Johnny Tremain, Rifles for Watie, Where the Red Fern Grows, etc being outliers.

    As far as history goes, even back around the late 90s early aughts, it was "blacks and wimmen made America".

    Thinking back, a great deal of assigned literature was feminine. Sarah, Plain and Tall, The Witch of Blackbird Pond, Cheaper by the Dozen, etc.

    Cheaper By the Dozen was about a fecund (even by the era’s standards) family led by a patriarch obsessed with efficiency in factories. That’s hardly “feminine”, unless you’re comparing it to swashbuckling and the like.

    • Replies: @Jack Henson
    IIRC it was written by the daughters and amazingly dull. The father, while an adventurous sort, was basically Dale Carnegie but dealing with time management. It's basically an autobiographical Little Women.

    If children produced is your milestone, let's put a copy of a biography of Genghis Khan in front of young boys.
  150. @Paleo Liberal
    I see what you are saying.

    My father was a college professor. That meant a few times in his career he could simply pack up and move the family to a completely different part of the country for a year, then back again. Since different school systems do things differently, it made the transition for the kids less than perfect.

    Since American families move a bit, it would be wonderful to know one could move one’s kids with minimal disruption of academics.

    The extreme case of standardization is France. The saying is every school in the country teaches the same lessons every day. That is probably not what we want in the US, but it makes it easier to move from one part of France to another.

    Of course, moving country to country is rarely easy. I turned down a job in Germany to prevent the complete disruption of my kids’ education. Even a native German took a demotion in the company to keep his kids in Wisconsin, rather than German; schools. He said his German-speaking kids would be completely lost, and warned me that my English speaking kids would have it even worse.

    The saying is every school in the country teaches the same lessons every day.

    More precisely, it was that the Minister of Education could look at his watch and know which page of which book every nine-year-old in the country was reading.

    • Agree: Paleo Liberal
    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    Yes, you are correct.

    Thank you.
  151. @Rebel0007
    Common Core failed because it focussed too much on testing, turning students and teachers into measurements of learning rather than teachers and learners.

    The measurements wers obsessive, as well as the standards. It was despised by everyone.

    The only Common Core was how much it was despised by students, teachers, and parents alike.

    When the goal of education becomes proving that people are learning, rather than learning, people will learn less. That has always been the problem with the education system in America.

    Public education is torture. Public schools are concentration camps and torture chambers and an introduction into American fascism.

    “Public education is torture. Public schools are concentration camps and torture chambers and an introduction into American fascism.”
    Agreed! Public schools, in general, are child abuse.

  152. @Michelle
    The head of our IT dept is a woman from China. She lives in Fremont, CA. It is a great district to be a teacher in because most of the students are Chinese and Indian and very obedient and respectful.

    A few weeks ago she told me that a parent of a student in her son's third grade class had called her to report that their kids were being taught simple arithmetic incorrectly. She asked her son to do a few exercises and saw that he was, indeed, doing them incorrectly. She called the teacher and told her what she was doing was wrong and that she needed to do it right. She later asked her son if the teacher had corrected the class and was told that she had not.

    In the city wherein I reside, the only conservative voice of reason in the local newspaper's Op-eds is one of our high school math teachers. It is very difficult to find decent math teachers here and that is the only reason he still has his job. If he was an English teacher he would have been driven out long ago.

    “…their kids were being taught simple arithmetic incorrectly. She asked her son to do a few exercises and saw that he was, indeed, doing them incorrectly.”

    Michelle, Your report is interesting but lacking substance. What exactly was incorrect? Getting a wrong answer? Using an unjustified algorithm to get the answer? Details, please — with an example.

    • Replies: @Michelle
    Simple math, 1+1×0=? etc.
  153. @Reg Cæsar

    The saying is every school in the country teaches the same lessons every day.
     
    More precisely, it was that the Minister of Education could look at his watch and know which page of which book every nine-year-old in the country was reading.

    Yes, you are correct.

    Thank you.

  154. Right-wing children’s reading easy answer: almost all the old stuff is good. Part of what they’re doing to rewrite history and normality is to overwrite that which was taken for granted in the past (eg, “updating” Richard Scarry’s illustrations). And there was a libertarian, self-sufficient streak which understood to be apolitical (Hatchet, My Side of the Mountain, various Walt Disney Presents shorts about young kids playing highly organized games in a wild area). Also if you can find the old Disney children’s magazine from the 60s, it’s all gold. I saw an article in there on “why leaves change color in the fall” with scientific terminology and no pulled punches (but simplified language).

  155. @Reg Cæsar

    Thinking back, a great deal of assigned literature was feminine. Sarah, Plain and Tall, The Witch of Blackbird Pond, Cheaper by the Dozen, etc.
     
    Cheaper By the Dozen was about a fecund (even by the era's standards) family led by a patriarch obsessed with efficiency in factories. That's hardly "feminine", unless you're comparing it to swashbuckling and the like.

    IIRC it was written by the daughters and amazingly dull. The father, while an adventurous sort, was basically Dale Carnegie but dealing with time management. It’s basically an autobiographical Little Women.

    If children produced is your milestone, let’s put a copy of a biography of Genghis Khan in front of young boys.

  156. anonymous[814] • Disclaimer says:

    Seemed like the unspoken message was that underperforming minorities would all be brought up to par with this new, miraculous program. Didn’t work out that way, apparently. Although the white kids are smart and resilient enough to survive each shift in the party line it’s still a distressing fact that they are subjected to these fads like so many laboratory guinea pigs. This on top of other fads such as busing and relentless indoctrination on racial and sexual topics which have turned public schools into undesirable places for any child one may care about. An urban public school system such as in Chicago where only about 9% of the students are white is hardly going to pass on much to the students since it’s mainly a cash cow for the adults. The teachers union recently went on strike for more pay-less work; for the good of the children, of course. Many (most?) of the teachers are unimpressive types, the white ones being mostly SJW and the blacks being more into gimmie-dats who talk in Ebonics. They’re all living off this system whose end product is fairly poor. It stopped being about the children a long time ago; they’re just needed as a prop.

  157. @OverCommenter
    "So, Common Core was basically a conspiracy by intelligent centrists to move K-12 education a tiny bit to the right."

    Bill Gates is a centrist in your mind? What conservative/centrist position has he ever supported? Oh let me guess, the billionaire open borders zealot can really get behind the GoP platform of low taxes and infinity H1B visas, right? Woah, such conservatism!! The top story on Slate.com right now is "Biden or Buttigeig" and yet here you are claiming they inspired shifting the education system to the right, am I understanding that correctly?

    Why is the answer to the question about America's failing industry, institutions and education never "the changing demographics"? "Diversity is our greatest strength" is always flouted and touted, and yet education in America has never been worse. I guess we just need to add tacos to lunch menus, clearly "good" food is the only solution to any social problem. Look at all this nonsense you have to believe in order to make your world view tenable. You know it's going to be funny in the future the insane excuses people like you will have to invent in order to explain why a less than 50% white America barely functions, and more closely resembles South America than Europe.

    …low taxes and infinity H1B visas, right? Woah, such conservatism!!

    If “low taxes” isn’t a conservative position, I don’t know what is. It’s not the only conservative position, but it’s pretty basic.

    https://www.latterdayconservative.com/articles/history-of-the-16th-amendment/

    https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2001/tracing-opposition-taxes-america

    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/11/26/tax-time

  158. @R.G. Camara
    Gates knows that charity is an excellent way to hide your corruption and evil. Charities serve as useful fronts for money -laundering, bribery, human trafficking, and other nefarious deeds.

    As is obvious from the Clintons (with whom Gates partied on Epstein's sex slave island) and their clearly-a-bribery-and -money-laundering front the Clinton Foundation.

    Or with the Vatican Bank scandal bank back in the 1970s, where a crooked (and Freemason) banker used his position running the Vatican's charity holdings company (which wasn't technically supposed to be a bank, as it wasn't supposed to lend out at interest, only to fund Vatican-blessed charity activities) to launder Mafia money, and only got caught when his investments of the money turned sour and the Mafia came calling for their dough.

    So Gates giving some pittance (for him) to another obviously-going-to-fail educational fad was worth it, as it covered up whatever real evil he was doing in the charity

    Gates knows that charity is an excellent way to hide your corruption and evil. Charities serve as useful fronts for money -laundering, bribery, human trafficking, and other nefarious deeds.

    There are commercial companies making a lot of money providing advice and services in the area of “strategic philanthropy.”

  159. anon[839] • Disclaimer says:
    @SimpleSong
    I suspect your wariness is due to the belief that many of these standards will become politicized, and they will. Some subjects are going to be wildly politicized (history, civics, literature.) So leave those subjects out of the standards. But anything relatively apolitical, (math, science, music, grammar, rhetoric, etc.) would benefit from this treatment, in my opinion, for a few reasons:

    If the results are published it allows parents to be more informed in choosing a school. (of course this has to go hand in hand with school choice) It also allows people to objectively evaluate how different school systems are doing and/or how different teaching methods are doing.

    Like standardized testing it allows people of high ability from humble circumstances to be given a shot. Some kid from a tiny high school in West Virginia can get straight As at his high school but this isn't going to count for much compared to the kid who got straight As at Andover or Exeter because everyone assumes (rightly so) that the level of rigor is different. But if common standards are present the kid from West Virginia at least has a shot. Without the common standard he's not even in the game.

    It helps people who are homeschooling or in smaller districts know what to teach, in particular what to move on to if a student has outrun the teacher's knowledge. Maybe the teacher doesn't herself know the subject but if she has a bright kid she can at least set them up with some resources if she knows what is supposed to come next.

    Anyway I think these sort of objective national standards would be a body-blow against the entrenched educational bureaucracies that stay relevant by being very wishy washy about what they really accomplish.

    Anyway I think these sort of objective national standards would be a body-blow against the entrenched educational bureaucracies that stay relevant by being very wishy washy about what they really accomplish.

    Do you have any evidence to support this?

    Have you ever heard of the University of Chicago “Great Books” program? Or the Harvard Classics?

    Used to be Americans could figure out on their own what an education looked like. That’s largely been taken away from us, and you want to finish the job. Why?

  160. anon[839] • Disclaimer says:
    @SimpleSong
    I suspect your wariness is due to the belief that many of these standards will become politicized, and they will. Some subjects are going to be wildly politicized (history, civics, literature.) So leave those subjects out of the standards. But anything relatively apolitical, (math, science, music, grammar, rhetoric, etc.) would benefit from this treatment, in my opinion, for a few reasons:

    If the results are published it allows parents to be more informed in choosing a school. (of course this has to go hand in hand with school choice) It also allows people to objectively evaluate how different school systems are doing and/or how different teaching methods are doing.

    Like standardized testing it allows people of high ability from humble circumstances to be given a shot. Some kid from a tiny high school in West Virginia can get straight As at his high school but this isn't going to count for much compared to the kid who got straight As at Andover or Exeter because everyone assumes (rightly so) that the level of rigor is different. But if common standards are present the kid from West Virginia at least has a shot. Without the common standard he's not even in the game.

    It helps people who are homeschooling or in smaller districts know what to teach, in particular what to move on to if a student has outrun the teacher's knowledge. Maybe the teacher doesn't herself know the subject but if she has a bright kid she can at least set them up with some resources if she knows what is supposed to come next.

    Anyway I think these sort of objective national standards would be a body-blow against the entrenched educational bureaucracies that stay relevant by being very wishy washy about what they really accomplish.

    I suspect your wariness is due to the belief that many of these standards will become politicized, and they will.

    They already are.

    Some subjects are going to be wildly politicized (history, civics, literature.) So leave those subjects out of the standards.

    Your ideal world may be interesting, but it isn’t where we all live. So this suggestion not only is a non-starter, it indicates that you are not really serious about the topic.

    But anything relatively apolitical, (math, science, music, grammar, rhetoric, etc.) would benefit from this treatment, in my opinion, for a few reasons:

    That ship sailed a couple of generations ago. Multi-cultural empires do not work that way.

    Paleo Liberal
    Since American families move a bit, it would be wonderful to know one could move one’s kids with minimal disruption of academics.

    I see, millions of people should have their choices reduced in order to increase the convenience of a rather small minority of well-off families. Given that Americans are no longer moving as much as they used to, perhaps because of ongoing, aggressive immigration, this whine is moot.

    What you two are arguing for is central planning. Why do you want that?

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @SimpleSong
    >What you two are arguing for is central planning. Why do you want that?

    In order to be successful every civilization requires a degree of standardization and centralized planning.

    In any topic that involves life and death education in the U.S. is already standardized and centralized. Every major engineering school in the US offers the same set of courses in the same sequence, often the same textbooks. No one makes them do this, but it spontaneously happens because there is a demand from employers that all budding engineers know how to do, at minimum, X. Most medical school education and law school education is again, relatively standardized: everyone takes anatomy and physiology first year of medical school, for example.

    The licensing exams for medicine, pharmacy, etc., are all national exams, and for law they are (appropriately) standardized at the state level. The professional engineer exam is a national exam.
    These national exams are generally the only thing that prevents these professions from being flooded with AA retards--the blacks may get socially promoted but they can't pass the bar or the boards. I don't know much about the trades but I believe they have standardized licensing exams as well.

    So why would an approach that is ideal for a vast swathe of professionals and tradespeople not useful for everyone else?

    I mean, it's not just education, the hallmark of advanced societies is central planning and standardization. There is a big government agency called NIST that standardizes weights and measures. The value of the inch pound kilogram etc etc. There are government agencies that standardize things like highway signs, lane widths, etc. There are government agencies that standardize what level of purity is required of pharmaceuticals, foods, etc. Many of these standards organizations such as the ISO and UL are not actually affiliated with any government but but appear spontaneously because there is grass-roots demand for centralization and standardization.

    No one is forcing you to use NIST's standards for the length of the foot. You can make up your own definition and your own ruler and use that around your house. You can redefine the gallon and the pound and whatever you want. You can sell or buy goods using these made up units, if you want, if you can find willing counterparties. But of course nobody does that because standardization is incredibly useful. Likewise if you wanted to teach your kids to multiply using roman numerals and just ignore algebra, well, that's your business, but I suspect not a lot of people are going to do that.

    Now the important thing to note is that a standards organization for education must promulgate a standard but not require a particular process. A first grader should know that 2+3 = 5 but you can use whatever method you wish to teach first grade math. That is the key (and also very different from the French system which appears to mandate a process, not just an output.)

    If you do this, standards don't take away freedom, they give freedom. You can homeschool. You can use different methods or techniques, you can use the public schools, you can abandon them. You can use computerized learning tools. You can do whatever works, because you can show that your output is just as good, because the standard exists.

    But the key is that a standard is set, but no particular process is required.

    Anyway, the rest of your comment:

    >That ship sailed a couple of generations ago. Multi-cultural empires do not work that way.

    WTF does that even mean? Are you under the impression that the Fourier transform was taught differently in the Soviet Union? Math is math. Engineering is Engineering. CS is CS. History is bunk, or written by the victors. There are a lot of disciplines that can be politically corrupted, and for those disciplines standards are useless because they are fundamentally subjective. That doesn't meant that they aren't worthy of study--I am definitely not saying that. But they are not amenable to standardization. However, many disciplines are.

    Anyway from a practical perspective what I expect would happen would be that the history standard would require that all high school seniors know that George Washington Carver invented the peanut, and that everyone would know that the history standard was a joke and should be ignored.
    , @SimpleSong
    >I see, millions of people should have their choices reduced in order to increase the convenience of a rather small minority of well-off families.

    You are conflating the existence of a standard with mandatory standards. They are not the same. For example, the AP exams represent a national standard for assessing competence in a variety of different subjects.

    You don't have to offer AP classes at your high school. You don't have to take AP classes as a student. The existence of the AP standard, which defines what constitutes an acceptable familiarity with calculus or physics or chemistry or whatever according to the college board, does not take away anyone's educational choice. In fact it adds to it.

    Currently a high school degree is completely worthless. Even though many high schools are quite rigorous and many students work very hard in high school. Why is this? Because there is no standardization of the knowledge and skills associated with a high school diploma. Some high school diplomas represent a lot of learning and hard work. Some represent nothing. An employer has no idea which is which. So, all high school degrees are worthless.

    Stop being so paranoid and defeatist for a second and think about this: how much money do you spend on private school, or to buy a house in a good school district. And how much do you worry that, now that you've sunk roots, the district boundaries will change or the demographics of the school will change or whatever. Think about how much power the teachers union has in local politics (not to say that I don't like teachers, but their unions...) Think about how you have to deal with the umpteenth lesbian assistant principal because school districts give zero fs about what the local community wants when they hire.

    Not many people like this system but few are brave enough to buck it, and the core reason is they worry that their child won't be adequately educated without the existing educational-industrial complex. But imagine if you could _prove_ that your child had the same educational outcomes as if they were in the private school or the fancy public school, because there was a standardized exam for each grade level that assessed competency. That gives you the freedom to try new things.

    Anyway my grandkids have really opened my eyes--they are way ahead of where I was when I was their age in math, and it is 100% from access to online math resources. I frankly don't even think they need the school at this point, except maybe for socialization, and sometimes I think the socialization they are getting...is not good.
  161. @Abolish_public_education
    We homeschool.

    Course materials are easy to find: Avoid any book that claims to be CC compatible.

    Yes, CC is just another, public education gimmick. Keep those tax dollars flowing.

    What’s my screen name, again?

    Homeschooling is asymmetric with girls turning out rather nicely but boys having social deficiencies.

    The boys develop a bizarre failure to launch where they can’t read subtle hints such as when others are getting irritated or quite angry with them. This can be dangerous if they offend the wrong man. At best they are viewed with contempt as spoiled and soft.

    They are overtly “nice” to girls which comes across as trying too hard to please and rather off-putting.

    It’s rather sad as these are decent kids but they will have to learn a hard lesson as adults foisted on the rest of us at 12.

    The Duggars provide a warning. I’ve seen this play out in real life again and again.

    • Replies: @SimpleSong
    Thank you, that is interesting to hear.

    Do you think this is cause or effect? That is, do you think poorly adjusted boys tend to struggle with regular school and their parents pull them out and homeschool, or that homeschooling itself is the problem?

    Also, if homeschooling is a problem for boys social development, do you know of any antidotes? Club sports? Other alternatives? For example the subset of people who live in terrible school districts but can't afford private (or there is no private), and thus homeschool...
    , @Homeschooling Mom in NY
    Citation desperately needed.
  162. @Ed
    Related: WSJ has a story about migrants "rescued" at sea being returned to Libya (oh the humanity!)
    Here is a quote from an African and future Italian:
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/libyan-coast-guard-returns-europe-bound-migrants-to-war-zone-11575723601#comments_sector

    One of them is Musa Abdullah, of Benin, who had paid 3,000 dinars (about $2,100) for a spot on the raft that was intercepted by the Fezzan 658. Mr. Abdullah had been imprisoned in Libya for six months after militiamen stopped him for not having legal documents. In detention, the 28-year-old said, guards beat him until his parents paid a bribe to release him.

    “When they return us to land, they return us to a prison,” Mr. Abdullah said. “And we’ll pay to get out and try again.” He is driven by the stories of those who have made it to Europe, including a friend who recently married. “My dream is to reach Italy,” Mr. Abdullah said. “And marry an Italian woman.”
     

    When they return us to land, they return us to a prison

    This is so f—-ing dishonest. It’s not like they started out in Libya. They went from their home country – Nigeria or wherever – to Libya in order to get to Europe. So if Libya isn’t safe why did they go there to begin with?

    If Libya is considered unsafe then what the EU needs to do after they return them to Libya is take them straight to the airport and put them on a plane back home. No passport from your home country? Well sort all that out when you land.

  163. @anon
    I suspect your wariness is due to the belief that many of these standards will become politicized, and they will.

    They already are.

    Some subjects are going to be wildly politicized (history, civics, literature.) So leave those subjects out of the standards.

    Your ideal world may be interesting, but it isn't where we all live. So this suggestion not only is a non-starter, it indicates that you are not really serious about the topic.

    But anything relatively apolitical, (math, science, music, grammar, rhetoric, etc.) would benefit from this treatment, in my opinion, for a few reasons:

    That ship sailed a couple of generations ago. Multi-cultural empires do not work that way.

    Paleo Liberal
    Since American families move a bit, it would be wonderful to know one could move one’s kids with minimal disruption of academics.

    I see, millions of people should have their choices reduced in order to increase the convenience of a rather small minority of well-off families. Given that Americans are no longer moving as much as they used to, perhaps because of ongoing, aggressive immigration, this whine is moot.

    What you two are arguing for is central planning. Why do you want that?

    >What you two are arguing for is central planning. Why do you want that?

    In order to be successful every civilization requires a degree of standardization and centralized planning.

    In any topic that involves life and death education in the U.S. is already standardized and centralized. Every major engineering school in the US offers the same set of courses in the same sequence, often the same textbooks. No one makes them do this, but it spontaneously happens because there is a demand from employers that all budding engineers know how to do, at minimum, X. Most medical school education and law school education is again, relatively standardized: everyone takes anatomy and physiology first year of medical school, for example.

    The licensing exams for medicine, pharmacy, etc., are all national exams, and for law they are (appropriately) standardized at the state level. The professional engineer exam is a national exam.
    These national exams are generally the only thing that prevents these professions from being flooded with AA retards–the blacks may get socially promoted but they can’t pass the bar or the boards. I don’t know much about the trades but I believe they have standardized licensing exams as well.

    So why would an approach that is ideal for a vast swathe of professionals and tradespeople not useful for everyone else?

    I mean, it’s not just education, the hallmark of advanced societies is central planning and standardization. There is a big government agency called NIST that standardizes weights and measures. The value of the inch pound kilogram etc etc. There are government agencies that standardize things like highway signs, lane widths, etc. There are government agencies that standardize what level of purity is required of pharmaceuticals, foods, etc. Many of these standards organizations such as the ISO and UL are not actually affiliated with any government but but appear spontaneously because there is grass-roots demand for centralization and standardization.

    No one is forcing you to use NIST’s standards for the length of the foot. You can make up your own definition and your own ruler and use that around your house. You can redefine the gallon and the pound and whatever you want. You can sell or buy goods using these made up units, if you want, if you can find willing counterparties. But of course nobody does that because standardization is incredibly useful. Likewise if you wanted to teach your kids to multiply using roman numerals and just ignore algebra, well, that’s your business, but I suspect not a lot of people are going to do that.

    Now the important thing to note is that a standards organization for education must promulgate a standard but not require a particular process. A first grader should know that 2+3 = 5 but you can use whatever method you wish to teach first grade math. That is the key (and also very different from the French system which appears to mandate a process, not just an output.)

    If you do this, standards don’t take away freedom, they give freedom. You can homeschool. You can use different methods or techniques, you can use the public schools, you can abandon them. You can use computerized learning tools. You can do whatever works, because you can show that your output is just as good, because the standard exists.

    But the key is that a standard is set, but no particular process is required.

    Anyway, the rest of your comment:

    >That ship sailed a couple of generations ago. Multi-cultural empires do not work that way.

    WTF does that even mean? Are you under the impression that the Fourier transform was taught differently in the Soviet Union? Math is math. Engineering is Engineering. CS is CS. History is bunk, or written by the victors. There are a lot of disciplines that can be politically corrupted, and for those disciplines standards are useless because they are fundamentally subjective. That doesn’t meant that they aren’t worthy of study–I am definitely not saying that. But they are not amenable to standardization. However, many disciplines are.

    Anyway from a practical perspective what I expect would happen would be that the history standard would require that all high school seniors know that George Washington Carver invented the peanut, and that everyone would know that the history standard was a joke and should be ignored.

    • Replies: @anon
    In order to be successful every civilization requires a degree of standardization and centralized planning.

    Ok, Boomer!

    The US had virtually no central planning for generations. I guess that's why it was such a failure, especially in the 19th century? In particular the US limped along for nearly 200 years with zero central planning in the area of education, until the 1970's.

    In any topic that involves life and death education in the U.S. is already standardized and centralized. Every major engineering school in the US offers the same set of courses in the same sequence, often the same textbooks.

    Nice example of motte and bailey. Every child in the US in a public school must be learning the exact same topic at the exact same time of the exact same day, because otherwise engineers won't be properly trained.

    No one makes them do this,

    Sure, because there's no such thing as accreditation at the university level. You are ignorant.

    licensing...

    So why would an approach that is ideal for a vast swathe of professionals and tradespeople not useful for everyone else?

    Because a Procrustian "one size fits all no matter what" approach doesn't work? Because 50-odd years of educational "reform" going back nearly to Dewey have not delivered on any promises?

    I mean, it’s not just education, the hallmark of advanced societies is central planning and standardization. There is a big government agency called NIST

    Yes, I know. I have worked with them. Do you understand that there is a difference between NIST and the local grade school?

    that standardizes weights and measures.

    That kind of standard is thousands of years old and does not require a giant central control of education.

    Now the important thing to note is that a standards organization for education must promulgate a standard but not require a particular process.

    In your ideal bubble world. Obviously you have zero knowledge of Common Core, or the latest hot thing, Singapore Math. Ignorance is not strength. Your ignorance of the real world does you no good.

    >That ship sailed a couple of generations ago. Multi-cultural empires do not work that way.

    WTF does that even mean?

    It means what it says. But Ok, Boomer! The blank slate totally rules and there's no prob mandating the same educrat standards to mostly-white Vermont and rural Mississippi! You can require every single High School junior to open up page 1 of "Handmaid's Tale" at 11:00 AM on the first Monday in February - it will work! Because reasons! There's no difference at all in teaching a class full of heritage Americans and a class full of recently arrived Hondurans! We're all the same! You'd like to buy the world a Coke, I'm sure.


    Anyway from a practical perspective what I expect

    Is irrelevant, because you don't know much about the current system, or the last 100+ years of educational "reform", or how people learn, or much of anything else, but you are certain that your plan would work, even though it's moot.

    The failure of Common Core, and No Child Left Behind, and I don't know how many other "reforms" going back to at least the 1940's and into the 19th century doesn't matter. Because some Boomer grandmaw knows everything about anything.

    OK Boomer!
  164. The rumor is that common core flattened down the smart kids which then boosted the curve for everyone which is what made it appealing to liberals. Much of the math is counter-intuitive for kids that do fine with math taught in a direct manner. So while egalitarians cheered the results you still run into problems when you compare the kids globally.

    Quite a lot of talk here about Gates. What few realize is that he is “true believer” egalitarian. Meaning he believes all racial inequality is caused by Evil Whites. I have no idea why he would take such an extreme egalitarian position but that is who he is. I also do not know if this is still the case after all his funding experiments in education. Sorry for any children that may have been negatively affected by a billionaire’s play time. He really had good intentions you see.

  165. @anon
    I suspect your wariness is due to the belief that many of these standards will become politicized, and they will.

    They already are.

    Some subjects are going to be wildly politicized (history, civics, literature.) So leave those subjects out of the standards.

    Your ideal world may be interesting, but it isn't where we all live. So this suggestion not only is a non-starter, it indicates that you are not really serious about the topic.

    But anything relatively apolitical, (math, science, music, grammar, rhetoric, etc.) would benefit from this treatment, in my opinion, for a few reasons:

    That ship sailed a couple of generations ago. Multi-cultural empires do not work that way.

    Paleo Liberal
    Since American families move a bit, it would be wonderful to know one could move one’s kids with minimal disruption of academics.

    I see, millions of people should have their choices reduced in order to increase the convenience of a rather small minority of well-off families. Given that Americans are no longer moving as much as they used to, perhaps because of ongoing, aggressive immigration, this whine is moot.

    What you two are arguing for is central planning. Why do you want that?

    >I see, millions of people should have their choices reduced in order to increase the convenience of a rather small minority of well-off families.

    You are conflating the existence of a standard with mandatory standards. They are not the same. For example, the AP exams represent a national standard for assessing competence in a variety of different subjects.

    You don’t have to offer AP classes at your high school. You don’t have to take AP classes as a student. The existence of the AP standard, which defines what constitutes an acceptable familiarity with calculus or physics or chemistry or whatever according to the college board, does not take away anyone’s educational choice. In fact it adds to it.

    Currently a high school degree is completely worthless. Even though many high schools are quite rigorous and many students work very hard in high school. Why is this? Because there is no standardization of the knowledge and skills associated with a high school diploma. Some high school diplomas represent a lot of learning and hard work. Some represent nothing. An employer has no idea which is which. So, all high school degrees are worthless.

    Stop being so paranoid and defeatist for a second and think about this: how much money do you spend on private school, or to buy a house in a good school district. And how much do you worry that, now that you’ve sunk roots, the district boundaries will change or the demographics of the school will change or whatever. Think about how much power the teachers union has in local politics (not to say that I don’t like teachers, but their unions…) Think about how you have to deal with the umpteenth lesbian assistant principal because school districts give zero fs about what the local community wants when they hire.

    Not many people like this system but few are brave enough to buck it, and the core reason is they worry that their child won’t be adequately educated without the existing educational-industrial complex. But imagine if you could _prove_ that your child had the same educational outcomes as if they were in the private school or the fancy public school, because there was a standardized exam for each grade level that assessed competency. That gives you the freedom to try new things.

    Anyway my grandkids have really opened my eyes–they are way ahead of where I was when I was their age in math, and it is 100% from access to online math resources. I frankly don’t even think they need the school at this point, except maybe for socialization, and sometimes I think the socialization they are getting…is not good.

  166. @Reg Cæsar

    I like the idea of national education standards.
     
    Those might be appropriate to actual nations. That hardly makes them relevant to the United States.

    Well, some things are transnational. Math, physics, etc.

    For the things that aren’t, look at it as a glass half full kind of thing. Educational standards don’t need to be promulgated by the government, and most successful standards actually have not been. Why not have a Reg Caesar history standard that devotes exactly 0 time to Harriet Tubman? Particularly as whites become more isolated and clannish they might start to seek these sorts of things out. I used to love history and my grandkids seemed to when they were little, but none of them took the AP history exam at their school and I suspect I know why…

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Why not have a Reg Caesar history standard that devotes exactly 0 time to Harriet Tubman?
     
    Miz Harriet is a true heroine in my curriculum. She invented self-deportation!
  167. @Thea
    Homeschooling is asymmetric with girls turning out rather nicely but boys having social deficiencies.

    The boys develop a bizarre failure to launch where they can’t read subtle hints such as when others are getting irritated or quite angry with them. This can be dangerous if they offend the wrong man. At best they are viewed with contempt as spoiled and soft.

    They are overtly “nice” to girls which comes across as trying too hard to please and rather off-putting.

    It’s rather sad as these are decent kids but they will have to learn a hard lesson as adults foisted on the rest of us at 12.

    The Duggars provide a warning. I’ve seen this play out in real life again and again.

    Thank you, that is interesting to hear.

    Do you think this is cause or effect? That is, do you think poorly adjusted boys tend to struggle with regular school and their parents pull them out and homeschool, or that homeschooling itself is the problem?

    Also, if homeschooling is a problem for boys social development, do you know of any antidotes? Club sports? Other alternatives? For example the subset of people who live in terrible school districts but can’t afford private (or there is no private), and thus homeschool…

    • Replies: @Thea
    My gut instinct is that idiosyncrasies of the family get magnified. I don’t know if clubs help because some these guys did sports and music lessons with other kids. Maybe they needed more interaction.

    I’m not sure what to recommend if the local public schools are too horrible. . I survived a very violent (minority of students were white) and I actually think it was good for me. I understand situations I wouldn’t have otherwise.

    It’s possible to supplement education at home. You should hear our dining table discussion about Amelia Earhart and MLK after those lessons.

    , @Thea
    I just want to add that I don’t mean to mock or ridicule homeschooling. Some moms do a truly terrific job of it. . The educational outcome is often ( not always) better than public school. But it has some shortcomings that need to be addressed.
    , @Homeschooling Mom in NY
    And you just bought that unsubstantiated rant without any critical thinking? Wow.
  168. @El Dato
    You get the impression of the Amoeba of Eduacshion trying to break out of its clay trap and failing repeatedly.

    American children would read more nonfiction
     
    A detailed overview of the economic evolution of Great Britain from the Thatcherite perspective would be good.

    write better essays
     
    Uh huh.

    and understand key mathematical concepts, instead of just mechanically solving equations.
     
    "Understanding" is like learning to navigate, possibly literally so.

    Success at "mechanically solving equations" would be a strong step towards that goal. Myself, I didn't grok all the "solving" idea until uni. Then it occurred to me that one just throws constraints at large spaces and tries to make the constraints palatable by whatever means necessary. Means which are often in short supply once you go beyond triangles, quadrilaterals and a d/dx or two.

    100% certainty says the teachers don't get the "key mathematical concepts" either.

    https://i.imgur.com/ElTdjEQ.jpg

    A detailed overview of the economic evolution of Great Britain from the Thatcherite perspective would be good.

    Except that that story is ammunition for the left.

  169. @SimpleSong
    Well, some things are transnational. Math, physics, etc.

    For the things that aren't, look at it as a glass half full kind of thing. Educational standards don't need to be promulgated by the government, and most successful standards actually have not been. Why not have a Reg Caesar history standard that devotes exactly 0 time to Harriet Tubman? Particularly as whites become more isolated and clannish they might start to seek these sorts of things out. I used to love history and my grandkids seemed to when they were little, but none of them took the AP history exam at their school and I suspect I know why...

    Why not have a Reg Caesar history standard that devotes exactly 0 time to Harriet Tubman?

    Miz Harriet is a true heroine in my curriculum. She invented self-deportation!

  170. @gregor
    Undergrad math majors are about 50/50 nowadays last time I checked. Male mathematical talent gets split among more fields. The female math talent gets concentrated in straight math, especially math ed.

    The female math talent gets concentrated in straight math…

    Wait, I thought it was “fuzzy”.

    Did they undergo reparative therapy?

  171. @SimpleSong
    Thank you, that is interesting to hear.

    Do you think this is cause or effect? That is, do you think poorly adjusted boys tend to struggle with regular school and their parents pull them out and homeschool, or that homeschooling itself is the problem?

    Also, if homeschooling is a problem for boys social development, do you know of any antidotes? Club sports? Other alternatives? For example the subset of people who live in terrible school districts but can't afford private (or there is no private), and thus homeschool...

    My gut instinct is that idiosyncrasies of the family get magnified. I don’t know if clubs help because some these guys did sports and music lessons with other kids. Maybe they needed more interaction.

    I’m not sure what to recommend if the local public schools are too horrible. . I survived a very violent (minority of students were white) and I actually think it was good for me. I understand situations I wouldn’t have otherwise.

    It’s possible to supplement education at home. You should hear our dining table discussion about Amelia Earhart and MLK after those lessons.

  172. @Halloween Princesses Are Real Princesses
    Can you point me in the direction of a good right-wing reading list? Serious question, I have young kids, so I am always looking for these kinds of things.

    Vox Day has long suggested right-wing reading lists for adults, and recently his publishing house has begun work on a "Junior Classics" collection for kids. Good idea.

    For 2019 Vox Day’s adult reading list (see right magin of blog) includes:

    A History of the Peninsular War, Vol. I, Charles Oman
    The Virtue of Nationalism, Yoram Hazony
    A History of the Peninsular War, Vol. II, Charles Oman
    A History of the Peninsular War, Vol. III, Charles Oman
    A History of the Peninsular War, Vol. IV, Charles Oman
    Killing Commendatore, Haruki Murakami
    The Right Side of History, Ben Shapiro
    1Q84, Haruki Murakami
    Wellington’s Army, Charles Oman
    From Bauhaus to Our House, Tom Wolfe
    Hooking Up, Tom Wolfe
    A Hymn to Old Age, Hermann Hesse
    Klingsor’s Last Summer, Hermann Hesse
    A Man in Full, Tom Wolfe
    I am Charlotte Simmons, Tom Wolfe
    Tender is the Night, F. Scott Fitzgerald
    A History of England, Charles Oman
    In the Beginning Was the Command Line, Neal Stephenson
    Neuromancer, William Gibson
    Count Zero, William Gibson
    Mona Lisa Overdrive, William Gibson
    Fall, or, Dodge in Hell, Neal Stephenson
    Zero History, William Gibson
    Pattern Recognition, William Gibson
    Warwick the Kingmaker, Charles Oman
    The Jews, Hillair Belloc
    The Nautical Chart, Arturo Perez-Reverte
    The Seville Communion, Arturo Perez-Reverte
    What We Become, Arturo Perez-Reverte
    Captain Alatriste, Arturo Perez-Reverte
    Purity of Blood, Arturo Perez-Reverte
    The Sun Over Breda, Arturo Perez-Reverte
    The Children of Hurin, JRR Tolkien
    The King’s Gold, Arturo Perez-Reverte
    The Cavalier in the Yellow Doublet, Arturo Perez-Reverte
    The Master of Go, Yusanari Kawabata
    The Trojan Mouse, Sam Lively
    The Tale of Genji, Murasaki Shikibu

  173. @Halloween Princesses Are Real Princesses
    Can you point me in the direction of a good right-wing reading list? Serious question, I have young kids, so I am always looking for these kinds of things.

    Vox Day has long suggested right-wing reading lists for adults, and recently his publishing house has begun work on a "Junior Classics" collection for kids. Good idea.

    From our experience, you should also look into

    Laura Ingalls Wilder’s “Little House on the Prairie” series

    L. Frank Baum’s “Oz” series

    Both authors are known for one book but actually produced long series of great depth. Baum is wildly imaginative and funny, while Wilder is intensely realistic and profoundly American.

    What do other parents here suggest?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Baum is kind of psychedelic (and a lot of his work is meant to be a disguised allegory for cheap silver or some obscure and extinct form of political populism that might as well be the Arian heresy for all its relevance to today's children) but might be appealing to a child that loves fantasy. (BTW, Dorothy in the Oz book is a little girl who is much younger than as depicted by Judy Garland:

    https://sites.utexas.edu/ransomcentermagazine/files/2012/05/pz_8_b16_wo_cop1_002.jpg

    The Wilder series is factual and as you say quintessentially American but it depicts an America that no longer exists. It was gone already when Wilder wrote down her stories 50 years after the events depicted. The America she was writing about might as well be ancient Babylonia.

    These books can be enjoyable bedtime reading but if you are trying to prepare your kids for life in future America, they are not going to do it.
  174. @SimpleSong
    Thank you, that is interesting to hear.

    Do you think this is cause or effect? That is, do you think poorly adjusted boys tend to struggle with regular school and their parents pull them out and homeschool, or that homeschooling itself is the problem?

    Also, if homeschooling is a problem for boys social development, do you know of any antidotes? Club sports? Other alternatives? For example the subset of people who live in terrible school districts but can't afford private (or there is no private), and thus homeschool...

    I just want to add that I don’t mean to mock or ridicule homeschooling. Some moms do a truly terrific job of it. . The educational outcome is often ( not always) better than public school. But it has some shortcomings that need to be addressed.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
    I just want to add that I don’t mean to mock or ridicule homeschooling. Some moms do a truly terrific job of it. . The educational outcome is often ( not always) better than public school. But it has some shortcomings that need to be addressed.

    The outcome is normally better as measured by college entrance exams and I find it bizarre to assume that public school socialization is healthy.

    We have a student murder about every month in this country, usually by an outcast looking to seek revenge over some petty slight. Are they skipping socialization class?
  175. @Halloween Princesses Are Real Princesses
    From our experience, you should also look into

    Laura Ingalls Wilder's "Little House on the Prairie" series

    L. Frank Baum's "Oz" series

    Both authors are known for one book but actually produced long series of great depth. Baum is wildly imaginative and funny, while Wilder is intensely realistic and profoundly American.

    What do other parents here suggest?

    Baum is kind of psychedelic (and a lot of his work is meant to be a disguised allegory for cheap silver or some obscure and extinct form of political populism that might as well be the Arian heresy for all its relevance to today’s children) but might be appealing to a child that loves fantasy. (BTW, Dorothy in the Oz book is a little girl who is much younger than as depicted by Judy Garland:

    The Wilder series is factual and as you say quintessentially American but it depicts an America that no longer exists. It was gone already when Wilder wrote down her stories 50 years after the events depicted. The America she was writing about might as well be ancient Babylonia.

    These books can be enjoyable bedtime reading but if you are trying to prepare your kids for life in future America, they are not going to do it.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
  176. Obama gave Pearson Publishing $350 million to create Commoncore text and Pearson gave Obama a $65 million dollar book deal in return.

    https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/obama-gave-pearson-publishing-350-million-to-create-commoncore-text-and-pearson-gave-obama-a-65-million-dollar-book-deal-in-return/

  177. @education realist
    Yeah, I've never understood Steve's admiration for that idiot. Coleman's a consultant. All he knows how to do is talk. In no way was he trying to move education slightly to the right. He had no clear vision because, again, he's a consultant.

    Also don't understand the constant mention of him being a debater. Noah Millman, who competed against Coleman and Rosin, had this to say about debating:

    "By the time I was engaged in the activity, high school policy (or “cross-ex”) debate had evolved in a highly technical direction. Arguments followed a rigid formal structure, replete with obscure lingo, and delivered at the speed of a tobacco auctioneer. From the perspective of most of us debaters, the winner of a debate could only be discerned by someone experienced enough to accurately record the flow of argumentation, who could understand the lingo, who knew the arcane rules of the debate world. "

    That's not a description to inspire faith in his good persuasion skills, but rather a chameleon, who sings the song someone wants to hear.

    Steve's story isn't true, much less "the real story of Common Core". In no way whatsoever was Common Core a move to the right. The very idea is absurd. Alice's comments are basically correct. In the math side, it was an open attempt to bring in integrated math and NCTM procedures. It was the very opposite of moving to the right--it was a dog whistle in every way to the left.

    As for the socalled feminization of English class....I don't know what to say. The fact is that overwhelmingly, kids don't read the books anymore. They look up the synopsis. Males and females alike. And to the extent there's any attempt to make kids write actual essays in a meaningful way, it's restricted to the top 10% of kids, for whom the switch from fiction to non-fiction would be completely irrelevant.

    Moreover, the type of reading source material changes were all focused on high school readings and as anyone who follows me on Twitter knows, there was zip nada zilch change to high school curriculum over the past decade. The cool thing about common core for high school is that pretty much every state that had end of course exams stopped having end of course exams. Less testing! Whoo! I think New York still has those regent things, but they're faked anyway.

    The idea that Coleman had some sort of plan, that he was doing anything other than talking himself into a job that he had no real intesrest in and had never thought of until 3 seconds before he got the job, is just hilarious. Coleman was a consultant. He studies up enough to sound good to whoever's buying, then writes a plan and moves on. In this case, he moved to the College Board and utterly fucking wrecked the SAT, which has made it much easier for schools to start shrugging it off.

    Here's the only real thing that Common Core achieved: it showed people who could learn from experience that there's absolutely no way to improve math performance.

    How? Well, for a good 20-30 years, there'd be a concentrated effort to improve NAEP test scores. In 4th and 8th grade, they succeeded. Scores went up considerably. But 12th grade scores languished. There are many reasons for this, but since high school math teachers are far more qualified to teach math than elementary school teachers, it didn't make much sense. Until someone finally realized, as I've said many times, that high school math is a quantum leap in difficulty from k-7 math, taking only the most difficult aspects of elementary schoolmath (ratios, percentages, and fractions) which the kids never really understood, and leaving most of the rest of the arithmetic behind.

    So behind the scenes, rarely discussed, it was begun to realize that we had to start shoving more conceptual difficulty down into k-8. The high test scores were great, but they weren't giving the kids the background that they needed to succeed in higher math. If you read this story on the guy who wrote most of the math standards (key attribute: buddy of Coleman), you'll see that standards began by a bunch of business and test folks deciding what they wanted high school students to now. The development team worked backwards (not mentioned, but obvious: shoving down concepts into elementary school.)

    Now, for all the talk about how elementary school teachers aren't qualified to teach math, the fact is that it's still the case that 11th grade math test scores are the lowest. However, the change has been dramatic. Far fewer 3-8 kids are meeting standards or higher. They now profile much more closely t 11th graders. For example, in many states the number of k-8 kids meeting or exceeding standards used to be consistently 50-60%, while 11th graders were 30%, maybe 35. Now, it's more common to see 3-8 kids meeting or exceeding at the 35-40 level, while 11th graders are slightly lower.

    In other words, by pushing the conceptual difficulty of math down into lower grades, demanding kids know why not just how (which is the very essence of a progressive goal), the CC math standards turned elementary school kids into high school kids--most of them don't know what the hell they're doing.

    The teachers complained--not becuase they don't like math, although they don't--but because they were seeing far fewer kids understand the math they were teaching. The parents shrieked because they didn't like the math. everyone complained. And test scores dropped, because the tests were harder.

    Lesson learned: making elementary school math more difficult just confuses the less intelligent kids and doesn't give anything more to the bright kids.

    That's what Common Core taught anyone willing to learn.

    That doesn't include Dan Willingham, who just wrote an oped complaining that elementary school teachers aren't smart enough. Translated: he wants to go back to the harder common core math, but has fooled himself that the failure that he saw, that everyone saw, was due to dumb teachers.

    Except again, those dumb teachers were getting better results than the better trained teachers at the higher level. So they're smart enough.

    Anyway: Coleman's an idiot, albeit a typical high IQ asshole who can sell well. He did not move education even slightly to the right. He achieved nothing. Common Core failed because it tried to move high IQ topics down lower in math and taught us we couldn't. And it did nothing for English.

    My son just took the SAT. He said one of the problems in the Calculator math section required finding 10% of 45.

  178. @Thea
    I just want to add that I don’t mean to mock or ridicule homeschooling. Some moms do a truly terrific job of it. . The educational outcome is often ( not always) better than public school. But it has some shortcomings that need to be addressed.

    I just want to add that I don’t mean to mock or ridicule homeschooling. Some moms do a truly terrific job of it. . The educational outcome is often ( not always) better than public school. But it has some shortcomings that need to be addressed.

    The outcome is normally better as measured by college entrance exams and I find it bizarre to assume that public school socialization is healthy.

    We have a student murder about every month in this country, usually by an outcast looking to seek revenge over some petty slight. Are they skipping socialization class?

  179. The homeschooled kids that don’t take college entrance exams aren’t tracked just kind of fall off the radar. Some of those are getting substandard education.

    Lack of tracking a big problem with homeschooled kids as parents can simply opt out. It skews the results to families that choose to participate.

    There are many millions more public school kids so more bad apples in the mix. Most public school kid don’t murder their classmates. Homeschool kids tend to stand out in the same weird way.

  180. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:

    Two “technical” books I like to have people read not so much to teach the subject but for the qualities of the writing , and which may be used to teach reading comprehension, are Wolfgang Langewiesche’s Stick and Rudder and John Muir’s How To Keep Your Volkswagen Alive. The latter contains some mildly raunchy commentary the strictest of parents may find objectionable, but this can be redacted easily if desired.

    For younger readers , Alfred Morgan’s books such as The Boy Electrician and The Boy’s First (Second, Third, but the fourth not so much) Book of Radio and Electronics are also superb to read and also to have a go at building the stuff therein. It’s still fairly easy to find parts to build most of these projects. These are available online as .pdf’s although they are technically still in copyright, the publisher just hasn’t bothered to have them taken down. Earlier versions of The Boy Electrician are out of copyright and have been reprinted, as physical books. The originals in library binding can be pricey.

    Every household with kids should have a few old Look or Life magazines from the old days to show kids pictures of what things were like in better days, and if space and budget permit and one can find a set, a set of the Britannica from the pre-PC days.

    Fiction books I really like are: most anything by Nevil Shute EXCEPT On The Beach, most of Arthur Hailey’s novels, Richard Bach’s earlier works ( Stranger to the Ground is by far his best), and Frederick Forsyth’s The Shepherd especially at Christmastime.

    The Antique Caterpillar Machinery Owner’s Club, oddly enough, has reprinted a large number of Stephen Meader young adult novels, only one or two of which have anything to do with caterpillar machinery.

    http://www.acmoc.org/store/index.php?dispatch=categories.view&category_id=302

    Family historical activities that are valuable for an insight into past times, besides the usual museum visit, are learning to shoot a muzzle loading rifle or musket, and getting a chance to drive a Model T Ford. The former is pretty easy to arrange, the latter means finding an organization that offers a “Drive A Model T” class, that covers what all the levers and pedals do, getting underneath the beast, checking the oil and water, etc, and then a demonstration and a chance to drive the T on a closed course or other off-public-highway path.

  181. anon[172] • Disclaimer says:
    @SimpleSong
    >What you two are arguing for is central planning. Why do you want that?

    In order to be successful every civilization requires a degree of standardization and centralized planning.

    In any topic that involves life and death education in the U.S. is already standardized and centralized. Every major engineering school in the US offers the same set of courses in the same sequence, often the same textbooks. No one makes them do this, but it spontaneously happens because there is a demand from employers that all budding engineers know how to do, at minimum, X. Most medical school education and law school education is again, relatively standardized: everyone takes anatomy and physiology first year of medical school, for example.

    The licensing exams for medicine, pharmacy, etc., are all national exams, and for law they are (appropriately) standardized at the state level. The professional engineer exam is a national exam.
    These national exams are generally the only thing that prevents these professions from being flooded with AA retards--the blacks may get socially promoted but they can't pass the bar or the boards. I don't know much about the trades but I believe they have standardized licensing exams as well.

    So why would an approach that is ideal for a vast swathe of professionals and tradespeople not useful for everyone else?

    I mean, it's not just education, the hallmark of advanced societies is central planning and standardization. There is a big government agency called NIST that standardizes weights and measures. The value of the inch pound kilogram etc etc. There are government agencies that standardize things like highway signs, lane widths, etc. There are government agencies that standardize what level of purity is required of pharmaceuticals, foods, etc. Many of these standards organizations such as the ISO and UL are not actually affiliated with any government but but appear spontaneously because there is grass-roots demand for centralization and standardization.

    No one is forcing you to use NIST's standards for the length of the foot. You can make up your own definition and your own ruler and use that around your house. You can redefine the gallon and the pound and whatever you want. You can sell or buy goods using these made up units, if you want, if you can find willing counterparties. But of course nobody does that because standardization is incredibly useful. Likewise if you wanted to teach your kids to multiply using roman numerals and just ignore algebra, well, that's your business, but I suspect not a lot of people are going to do that.

    Now the important thing to note is that a standards organization for education must promulgate a standard but not require a particular process. A first grader should know that 2+3 = 5 but you can use whatever method you wish to teach first grade math. That is the key (and also very different from the French system which appears to mandate a process, not just an output.)

    If you do this, standards don't take away freedom, they give freedom. You can homeschool. You can use different methods or techniques, you can use the public schools, you can abandon them. You can use computerized learning tools. You can do whatever works, because you can show that your output is just as good, because the standard exists.

    But the key is that a standard is set, but no particular process is required.

    Anyway, the rest of your comment:

    >That ship sailed a couple of generations ago. Multi-cultural empires do not work that way.

    WTF does that even mean? Are you under the impression that the Fourier transform was taught differently in the Soviet Union? Math is math. Engineering is Engineering. CS is CS. History is bunk, or written by the victors. There are a lot of disciplines that can be politically corrupted, and for those disciplines standards are useless because they are fundamentally subjective. That doesn't meant that they aren't worthy of study--I am definitely not saying that. But they are not amenable to standardization. However, many disciplines are.

    Anyway from a practical perspective what I expect would happen would be that the history standard would require that all high school seniors know that George Washington Carver invented the peanut, and that everyone would know that the history standard was a joke and should be ignored.

    In order to be successful every civilization requires a degree of standardization and centralized planning.

    Ok, Boomer!

    The US had virtually no central planning for generations. I guess that’s why it was such a failure, especially in the 19th century? In particular the US limped along for nearly 200 years with zero central planning in the area of education, until the 1970’s.

    In any topic that involves life and death education in the U.S. is already standardized and centralized. Every major engineering school in the US offers the same set of courses in the same sequence, often the same textbooks.

    Nice example of motte and bailey. Every child in the US in a public school must be learning the exact same topic at the exact same time of the exact same day, because otherwise engineers won’t be properly trained.

    No one makes them do this,

    Sure, because there’s no such thing as accreditation at the university level. You are ignorant.

    licensing

    So why would an approach that is ideal for a vast swathe of professionals and tradespeople not useful for everyone else?

    Because a Procrustian “one size fits all no matter what” approach doesn’t work? Because 50-odd years of educational “reform” going back nearly to Dewey have not delivered on any promises?

    I mean, it’s not just education, the hallmark of advanced societies is central planning and standardization. There is a big government agency called NIST

    Yes, I know. I have worked with them. Do you understand that there is a difference between NIST and the local grade school?

    that standardizes weights and measures.

    That kind of standard is thousands of years old and does not require a giant central control of education.

    Now the important thing to note is that a standards organization for education must promulgate a standard but not require a particular process.

    In your ideal bubble world. Obviously you have zero knowledge of Common Core, or the latest hot thing, Singapore Math. Ignorance is not strength. Your ignorance of the real world does you no good.

    >That ship sailed a couple of generations ago. Multi-cultural empires do not work that way.

    WTF does that even mean?

    It means what it says. But Ok, Boomer! The blank slate totally rules and there’s no prob mandating the same educrat standards to mostly-white Vermont and rural Mississippi! You can require every single High School junior to open up page 1 of “Handmaid’s Tale” at 11:00 AM on the first Monday in February – it will work! Because reasons! There’s no difference at all in teaching a class full of heritage Americans and a class full of recently arrived Hondurans! We’re all the same! You’d like to buy the world a Coke, I’m sure.

    Anyway from a practical perspective what I expect

    Is irrelevant, because you don’t know much about the current system, or the last 100+ years of educational “reform”, or how people learn, or much of anything else, but you are certain that your plan would work, even though it’s moot.

    The failure of Common Core, and No Child Left Behind, and I don’t know how many other “reforms” going back to at least the 1940’s and into the 19th century doesn’t matter. Because some Boomer grandmaw knows everything about anything.

    OK Boomer!

  182. @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    "...their kids were being taught simple arithmetic incorrectly. She asked her son to do a few exercises and saw that he was, indeed, doing them incorrectly."

    Michelle, Your report is interesting but lacking substance. What exactly was incorrect? Getting a wrong answer? Using an unjustified algorithm to get the answer? Details, please -- with an example.

    Simple math, 1+1×0=? etc.

  183. @Thea
    Homeschooling is asymmetric with girls turning out rather nicely but boys having social deficiencies.

    The boys develop a bizarre failure to launch where they can’t read subtle hints such as when others are getting irritated or quite angry with them. This can be dangerous if they offend the wrong man. At best they are viewed with contempt as spoiled and soft.

    They are overtly “nice” to girls which comes across as trying too hard to please and rather off-putting.

    It’s rather sad as these are decent kids but they will have to learn a hard lesson as adults foisted on the rest of us at 12.

    The Duggars provide a warning. I’ve seen this play out in real life again and again.

    Citation desperately needed.

  184. @SimpleSong
    Thank you, that is interesting to hear.

    Do you think this is cause or effect? That is, do you think poorly adjusted boys tend to struggle with regular school and their parents pull them out and homeschool, or that homeschooling itself is the problem?

    Also, if homeschooling is a problem for boys social development, do you know of any antidotes? Club sports? Other alternatives? For example the subset of people who live in terrible school districts but can't afford private (or there is no private), and thus homeschool...

    And you just bought that unsubstantiated rant without any critical thinking? Wow.

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