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During the Depression, the Works Progress Administration famously paid for photographers like Dorothea Lange, Walker Evans, and Gordon Parks to take photos of of Dust Bowlers and other poor Americans. One of the rare sets of WPA photos shot in color were by Russell Lee of homesteaders in Pie Town, New Mexico, a wide spot in the road at 8,000 feet elevation.

But that’s triggering today, so an artist is erasing all the men from Lee’s photographs to retcon Pie Town in 1940 into a lesbian utopia.

From the New York Times:

How Today’s Queer Artists Are Revising History

By revisiting and refuting the cultural history of the West, this group is using time as its primary medium, looking backward to inform a different kind of gay future.

I don’t think the New York Times quite knows the meaning of the word “refute” anymore.

By Jesse Green
Dec. 4, 2019

… Now you fully realize that, despite a few boy babies, there are no men in Pie Town. There are only women, living their lives, singly, in couples, in families, in community. What heaven, what haven, what mirage is this?

It’s Photoshop.

The original images, taken by the American photojournalist Russell Lee for the Farm Security Administration in 1940, depicted Pie Town as it actually was, its traditional gender roles and pairings strictly observed. According to Lee’s caption, Jessie and Edith Evans-Whinery were, in reality, just Jack Whinery and his unnamed wife. The Caudills weren’t Fae and Doris but Faro and his anonymous missus. Dozens of other photographs have been manipulated as well, pushing existing women closer together to suggest coupledom, or creating wives where husbands had been by removing Adam’s apples, lantern jaws and five-o’clock shadows.

“My Pie Town,” as the series of altered photographs is called, is the work of the American artist Debbie Grossman: an attempt, she has said, “to make the history I wish was real.”

An original photograph commissioned by T that draws on themes of queer love and desire by subverting the style of a classical Renaissance painting. From left: Sies Marjan top, $1,295, siesmarjan.com, and stylist’s own collar and T-shirt. Loewe dress, $3,350, and hat, $1,950, loewe.com, and stylist’s own veil and shoes. Y/Project top, $475, shop.nordstrom.com, Gucci pants, $1,150, gucci.com, and stylist’s own collar. Jacquemus top, $718, jacquemus.com, Palomo shirt (worn underneath), about $340, palomospain.com, and Adidas pants, $65, adidas.com.Credit…Photo by James Hawkinson. Styled by Jay Massacret

Yeah, that’s the actual caption in the NYT.

 
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  1. Just when I thought (or hoped) that it wouldn’t (or couldn’t) get any crazier!

    • Agree: Kronos
  2. I’ve come to the realization that the Chinese language may cause the Chinese people to skew psychotic in their mental processing. Are you Chinese or fluent in Chinese, Sailer?

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    I'm certainly not fluent, but sounds like bullshit to me.

    Chinese is the most 'Western-feeling' of all Asian languages; it's why the 'Chinesey garbled English' meme (e.g., 'Confucius says' jokes and the like) is so funny.

    Chinese is just close enough to English to be in the 'uncanny valley' region. Contrast with Japanese - a Japanese mangling of English isn't funny, it's incomprehensible.
  3. Palomo shirt

    Pomo shirt.

  4. At least Stalin had a sane purpose.

    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @mmack
    That was my first thought as well: “You know who ELSE altered photos to remove folks?”
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    Stalin's henchmen (and henchwomen) only WISHED they had photoshop. Instead, they probably had to use TPIPS, The People's Image Processing Suite, a poorer, Socialist's gimpier version of Gimp. It came in a big wooden box and consisted of ink, erasers, brushes, and a couple of .38 rounds in case one screwed up.
    , @Sparkon
    This is a well-known photograph seemingly showing Voroshilov, Molotov, Stalin, and Yezhov, with Yezhov edited out of later versions of the image, or so the story goes.

    However, if you look closely at the "original" image, it's not clear that Yezhov was ever there in the first place, as there are clear indications of "noodling" all around Yezhov, although possibly those are simply artifacts of poor technique in repainting the water, which has been entirely faked.

    Why was it necessary to fake the water? Possibly the real water wasn't good enough for Comrade Stalin.

    https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/555b576fe4b08f7cf526c752/1434470244265-UKIT7PIQ3IXL3QW12QYK/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kPuUkGDCMduqhwZpYjQsEqQUqsxRUqqbr1mOJYKfIPR7LoDQ9mXPOjoJoqy81S2I8N_N4V1vUb5AoIIIbLZhVYxCRW4BPu10St3TBAUQYVKcOgfy923y4VhRMN9DkkEd_reOlYHQisIXU2nJ9FI2d-NCh354Ax_Fc6rSCgir7cL-/100068.b.jpg?format=2500w
  5. Steve odd but serious question….do you think you will ever be retconned?

    I sometimes wonder if I will be by “artists yet born”….

  6. @miss marple
    I've come to the realization that the Chinese language may cause the Chinese people to skew psychotic in their mental processing. Are you Chinese or fluent in Chinese, Sailer?

    I’m certainly not fluent, but sounds like bullshit to me.

    Chinese is the most ‘Western-feeling’ of all Asian languages; it’s why the ‘Chinesey garbled English’ meme (e.g., ‘Confucius says’ jokes and the like) is so funny.

    Chinese is just close enough to English to be in the ‘uncanny valley’ region. Contrast with Japanese – a Japanese mangling of English isn’t funny, it’s incomprehensible.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar


    I’ve come to the realization that the Chinese language may cause the Chinese people to skew psychotic in their mental processing.
     
    I’m certainly not fluent, but sounds like bullshit to me.
     
    The technical term is Sapir-Whorf. John McWhorter agrees with you on this point, and he's fun to read.

    Chinese is the most ‘Western-feeling’ of all Asian languages
     
    I think you have this backwards. English is, by far, the most Chinesey of the Indo-European languages.

    Proto-German shed much of the IE grammar, then native speakers of Welsh and Norse in England continued the process, followed finally by the Normans. English words are quite trim, and can often serve as several parts of speech which would require alterations in other tongues. Just like Chinese.

    And thus, like Chinese, word order is critical in a way it is not in Latin or Russian.
    , @inselaffen
    I've noticed that running google translate on Chinese webpages produces mostly readable results; Japanese pages, not so much. So I guess that explains it.
  7. I’d like to see the original. Seems like quite the Depression era bounty. Were these lesbian kulak oppressors of the peasantry?
    Also a compare and contrast of what the Depression really looked like through the eyes of then current progressives versus the retcon fantasy of today’s “well-meaning.” The current power of class would be pretty self-evident. An old school New Dealer would get it. And which artist got paid more?

  8. The difference in physiognomy between the rugged dust bowl farmer and the effete boy model in the second photo is really striking.

    • Replies: @HammerJack

    rugged dust bowl farmer
     
    White men are the Enemy.

    Real White. Real Men. Enemy.
  9. Yesterday evening I heard about the rant my normally mild-mannered niece went off on after buying a doll for her toddler niece. The shop assistant appears to have harangued my niece about buying a better role model artefact based on a more Woke film called “Brave”; swear words were bandied about lesbians and trannies and their bullying and she’s never going to look at the effing film. Mind you, she’s a very beautiful young woman and doesn’t need validation from a bunch of ugly sisters.

  10. Yeah, she wishes this was real. I wish I’d been 35, buff, bejingled, and rich in LA in the very late 50s so I could have boffed a few movie queens and driven around in a Dual-Ghia.

    So there.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Photoshopped .jpgs or it didn't happen!

    (Wait ...)
  11. Grossman’s Pie Town stuff dates from a decade ago.

    This is definitely a “New York Times fake trend piece,” as Jack Shafer calls them.

    https://www.poynter.org/reporting-editing/2010/how-slates-jack-shafer-calls-out-bogus-trend-stories/

    Nicholas Kristof on the Times fake trend pieces: “The plural of anecdote is trend.”

    • Replies: @Altai
    The single greatest fake trend piece.

    'The women who are killing it in taxidermy'
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-48386470
  12. Anonymous[425] • Disclaimer says:

    But that’s triggering today, so an artist is erasing all the men from Lee’s photographs to retcon Pie Town in 1940 into a lesbian utopia.

    It’s vegan soy burger art.

    “to make the history I wish was real.”

    Time to give holocaust denial a break. Deniers are just making history they wish were real.

    But fantasy is nothing new. When blacks dominated boxing, the biggest boxing movie was Rocky. Wish fulfillment.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    Ah, at least they're admitting that lesbo-femism can only exist in fantasy.
    , @Dissident

    Time to give holocaust denial a break. Deniers are just making history they wish were real.
     
    Are they, though? Isn't what deniers of the Nazi genocide wish was true is that the Final Solution had succeeded in its goal?

    (Basically, the deniers simultaneously maintain that it didn't happen but it should've happened. This has been pointed-out by many before me, including Kevin Michael Grace.)

  13. @anonymous coward
    I'm certainly not fluent, but sounds like bullshit to me.

    Chinese is the most 'Western-feeling' of all Asian languages; it's why the 'Chinesey garbled English' meme (e.g., 'Confucius says' jokes and the like) is so funny.

    Chinese is just close enough to English to be in the 'uncanny valley' region. Contrast with Japanese - a Japanese mangling of English isn't funny, it's incomprehensible.

    I’ve come to the realization that the Chinese language may cause the Chinese people to skew psychotic in their mental processing.

    I’m certainly not fluent, but sounds like bullshit to me.

    The technical term is Sapir-Whorf. John McWhorter agrees with you on this point, and he’s fun to read.

    Chinese is the most ‘Western-feeling’ of all Asian languages

    I think you have this backwards. English is, by far, the most Chinesey of the Indo-European languages.

    Proto-German shed much of the IE grammar, then native speakers of Welsh and Norse in England continued the process, followed finally by the Normans. English words are quite trim, and can often serve as several parts of speech which would require alterations in other tongues. Just like Chinese.

    And thus, like Chinese, word order is critical in a way it is not in Latin or Russian.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    English is, by far, the most Chinesey of the Indo-European languages.
     
    Nah. No Western languages are Chinesey in any way. English has a ton of grammar in it, especially with the many different tenses, while grammar is the easiest part of Chinese. Don't get me started on the silliness with the characters.

    English words are quite trim,...
     
    Balderdash! (for example) English has loads of 3 to 5 syllable words, while in Chinese 2 syllables max is the limit, as far as I know.
    , @miss marple
    You and Anon Cow are wrong and probably Chinese psychotics. Besides the indeterminacy along with a metaphorical meaning attached to the ideograms is what I'm talking about not word order and parts of speech. This slippage of meaning and metaphor leads to an odd mix of associations that are only tangentially related to any topic being discussed. In western culture, such frivolity is considered a symptom of being psychotic when displayed in the language of adults.
    , @Jus' Saying'...
    English word order is SVO, Japanese is SOV (Think Yoda speak!). This grammatical feature carries over into other aspects of language, e.g., the formation and positioning of prepositional phrases, dependent clauses, etc. This presents difficulties for English speakers learning Japanese and vice versa. (https://nihongoshark.com/word-order-in-japanese/).

    Chinese word order is usually SVO like English. (https://www.brighthubeducation.com/learning-chinese/42645-mandarin-grammar-how-word-order-is-structured/) This is one of the few aspects of Chinese that makes life easier for English speakers learning the language.

    Interestingly some linguists have posited that German has been transitioning to a SVO language from an earlier language with differing word order grammar. This explains the past piling up of verbs and auxilliaries at the ends of sentences and phrases which in the past has posed a problem for many English speakers learning the language. German grammar seems to be evolving away from this feature.
  14. Another Pie Town retconning:

  15. Love it if Debbie Grossman were to photoshop couple pics of Hill and Bill, replacing him with Huma.

    (She could entitle the series ‘My Finger-Pie Town’.)

    Please don’t delete me iSteve Moderator! I too just want ‘to make the history I wish was real’.

    Yours,

    Penny Lane

    • LOL: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @HammerJack

    Please don’t delete me iSteve
     
    Never occurred to me before. Steve's retconning some of us.

    In a related story, the December fundraiser is going well this year.

    Well?

    , @Hrw-500
    I wonder how Debbie Grossman would react if we said her lesbian utopia lack diversity because it don't show an Asian woman and a Black woman?

    Come to think of it, how she would react if we do parodies of her utopia paintings? ;-)
  16. It’s part of the same borderline-like ‘look at me! See me!’, ‘To be seen’, post-modernist aesthetic which seems particularly popular with artsy black women in American university departments. It has bled over into the arts with most ‘black’ films with a message being like this now, seeming to take place aesthetically in a different world with all the characters incapable of normal dialogue. But maybe it feels so similar in tone with itself but different to other things because the directors/writers all tend to come from the same generation that isn’t the case with non-‘black’ films? How many films by non-black GenY/Z directors ever get the same press? Another possibility is that they all seem very much to look like hip-hop music videos and many of these directors come from this milieu.

    A recent example is Queen and Slim, which is basically 2019 black Bonnie and Clyde except instead of the pair being amoral thrill seekers who kill for fun, the Clyde character kills a white police officer in self-defense and then have to go on the run.

    It’s directed by the very 2019 Melina Matsoukas whose father is of Greek and Jewish descent, and her mother is of Afro-Cuban and Afro-Jamaican descent. She comes from a background of music videos. Another fun 2019 trend is that the main character is American but played by a British actor, in this case, Daniel Kaluuya (The guy with the bulging eyes from ‘Get Out’.) whose parents are from Uganda and, in another case of it all being very 2019, whose mother comes from a family of 22.

    Anyway the most 2019 thing of all is in the trailer when the Bonnie character, after becoming a fugitive through her Tinder date’s (Yes, that is how they meet in the film) actions, says “Thank you for this journey.”

    If this aesthetic can be captured in an image, I think it must be the art student, Sethembile Msezane, who did this pose during the removal of the statue of Cecil Rhodes at the University of Cape Town. Same energy.

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
    The irony is beautiful.

    Cecil Rhodes was a totally despicable world government plotter.

    It couldn't happen to a nicer guy.
  17. So, she’s turned Pie Town into Custard Pie Town, eh?

    Let Us Now Raze Famous Men.

  18. @Anon
    Grossman's Pie Town stuff dates from a decade ago.

    This is definitely a "New York Times fake trend piece," as Jack Shafer calls them.

    https://www.poynter.org/reporting-editing/2010/how-slates-jack-shafer-calls-out-bogus-trend-stories/

    Nicholas Kristof on the Times fake trend pieces: "The plural of anecdote is trend."

    The single greatest fake trend piece.

    ‘The women who are killing it in taxidermy’
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-48386470

  19. @Anonymous
    At least Stalin had a sane purpose.

    https://cdn.history.com/sites/2/2018/04/Stalin-composite.jpg

    That was my first thought as well: “You know who ELSE altered photos to remove folks?”

  20. Jesse Green:

    I can just imagine the photographer pleading with Jesse to not turn his head even the slightest bit, lest that patio awning he calls a nose envelopes the entire frame.

  21. @Anonymous
    At least Stalin had a sane purpose.

    https://cdn.history.com/sites/2/2018/04/Stalin-composite.jpg

    Stalin’s henchmen (and henchwomen) only WISHED they had photoshop. Instead, they probably had to use TPIPS, The People’s Image Processing Suite, a poorer, Socialist’s gimpier version of Gimp. It came in a big wooden box and consisted of ink, erasers, brushes, and a couple of .38 rounds in case one screwed up.

  22. @Reg Cæsar


    I’ve come to the realization that the Chinese language may cause the Chinese people to skew psychotic in their mental processing.
     
    I’m certainly not fluent, but sounds like bullshit to me.
     
    The technical term is Sapir-Whorf. John McWhorter agrees with you on this point, and he's fun to read.

    Chinese is the most ‘Western-feeling’ of all Asian languages
     
    I think you have this backwards. English is, by far, the most Chinesey of the Indo-European languages.

    Proto-German shed much of the IE grammar, then native speakers of Welsh and Norse in England continued the process, followed finally by the Normans. English words are quite trim, and can often serve as several parts of speech which would require alterations in other tongues. Just like Chinese.

    And thus, like Chinese, word order is critical in a way it is not in Latin or Russian.

    English is, by far, the most Chinesey of the Indo-European languages.

    Nah. No Western languages are Chinesey in any way. English has a ton of grammar in it, especially with the many different tenses, while grammar is the easiest part of Chinese. Don’t get me started on the silliness with the characters.

    English words are quite trim,…

    Balderdash! (for example) English has loads of 3 to 5 syllable words, while in Chinese 2 syllables max is the limit, as far as I know.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    "Trim", in the sense of lacking grammatical endings. What do we have left? Third-person singular present (-s), past tense (-ed), possessive (-'s, -s'), plural markers (-s). That's about it.

    Unless you count creoles and pidgins, no Indo-European tongue comes anywhere close to that amount of shedding. (Though the Scandinavians, like Ebonics, have discarded conjugation altogether. The Swedish language do better there.)

    We did in the last 1,000 years what Chinese took several millennia to accomplish.
  23. @Anonymous
    Yeah, she wishes this was real. I wish I’d been 35, buff, bejingled, and rich in LA in the very late 50s so I could have boffed a few movie queens and driven around in a Dual-Ghia.

    So there.

    Photoshopped .jpgs or it didn’t happen!

    (Wait …)

  24. “to make the history I wish was real.”

    I painted the truth, my truth.

  25. @anonymous coward
    I'm certainly not fluent, but sounds like bullshit to me.

    Chinese is the most 'Western-feeling' of all Asian languages; it's why the 'Chinesey garbled English' meme (e.g., 'Confucius says' jokes and the like) is so funny.

    Chinese is just close enough to English to be in the 'uncanny valley' region. Contrast with Japanese - a Japanese mangling of English isn't funny, it's incomprehensible.

    I’ve noticed that running google translate on Chinese webpages produces mostly readable results; Japanese pages, not so much. So I guess that explains it.

  26. , “to make the history I wish was real.”

    Props for keeping one toe inside reality and admitting you’re fantasizing. Other people called Grossman would have used a Rambo-sized arsenal of verbal slight-of-hand to insinuate that actually, when you really think about it, in a way, on a certain level, that’s what history was really like.

    That photoshop is shit, by the way. That table doesn’t look like it inhabits the same reality as the scene behind it. And the light comes from the bottom left, while it falls on the girl in the back from the right. Maybe in that alternate timeline earth had two suns, I dunno.

    Hey maybe the ability to create good looking photoshops is sort of the same as the ability to create beautiful renaissance paintings, and is possessed by the same kind of people. The only female renaissance painter I can think of is Artemisia Gentileschi and her father was (wait for it, Steve) also a painter.

  27. What is wrong with these people?

  28. I think there’s something profound to the symbolism of duct-taping a big, phat banana to the middle of Debbie Grossman’s queer love photos.

    • Replies: @anon
    I agree, provided the next steps are taken.

    2. Remove the banana
    3. Eat the banana
    4.

    https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/1203901513464242176
  29. “despite a few boy babies, there are no men in Pie Town. ”

    Oh Noes, Who was going to save European Jewry from the Nazis? Did the USSR at least get to have males? Watch out what you wish for.

    • Replies: @HammerJack

    Who was going to save European Jewry from the Nazis?
     
    Kick-Ass Babes and Magic Negroes, of course.

    Duh! I swear sometimes I wonder if everyone's paying attention.

  30. @Reg Cæsar


    I’ve come to the realization that the Chinese language may cause the Chinese people to skew psychotic in their mental processing.
     
    I’m certainly not fluent, but sounds like bullshit to me.
     
    The technical term is Sapir-Whorf. John McWhorter agrees with you on this point, and he's fun to read.

    Chinese is the most ‘Western-feeling’ of all Asian languages
     
    I think you have this backwards. English is, by far, the most Chinesey of the Indo-European languages.

    Proto-German shed much of the IE grammar, then native speakers of Welsh and Norse in England continued the process, followed finally by the Normans. English words are quite trim, and can often serve as several parts of speech which would require alterations in other tongues. Just like Chinese.

    And thus, like Chinese, word order is critical in a way it is not in Latin or Russian.

    You and Anon Cow are wrong and probably Chinese psychotics. Besides the indeterminacy along with a metaphorical meaning attached to the ideograms is what I’m talking about not word order and parts of speech. This slippage of meaning and metaphor leads to an odd mix of associations that are only tangentially related to any topic being discussed. In western culture, such frivolity is considered a symptom of being psychotic when displayed in the language of adults.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    You and Anon Cow are wrong and probably Chinese psychotics. Besides the indeterminacy along with a metaphorical meaning attached to the ideograms is what I’m talking about not word order and parts of speech.
     
    Yes, but the mentality creates the language, not vice versa. They can be rational when they need be, and the words follow.
  31. @Anonymous
    At least Stalin had a sane purpose.

    https://cdn.history.com/sites/2/2018/04/Stalin-composite.jpg

    This is a well-known photograph seemingly showing Voroshilov, Molotov, Stalin, and Yezhov, with Yezhov edited out of later versions of the image, or so the story goes.

    However, if you look closely at the “original” image, it’s not clear that Yezhov was ever there in the first place, as there are clear indications of “noodling” all around Yezhov, although possibly those are simply artifacts of poor technique in repainting the water, which has been entirely faked.

    Why was it necessary to fake the water? Possibly the real water wasn’t good enough for Comrade Stalin.

  32. “My Pie Town,” as the series of altered photographs is called, is the work of the American artist Debbie Grossman: an attempt, she has said, “to make the history I wish was real.”

    Why not just get a good girl-on-girl porn movie instead of polluting the world for everyone.

    • LOL: Rob McX
  33. The problem with Queer Art is that heterosexuals find it repulsive.

  34. @Altai
    It's part of the same borderline-like 'look at me! See me!', 'To be seen', post-modernist aesthetic which seems particularly popular with artsy black women in American university departments. It has bled over into the arts with most 'black' films with a message being like this now, seeming to take place aesthetically in a different world with all the characters incapable of normal dialogue. But maybe it feels so similar in tone with itself but different to other things because the directors/writers all tend to come from the same generation that isn't the case with non-'black' films? How many films by non-black GenY/Z directors ever get the same press? Another possibility is that they all seem very much to look like hip-hop music videos and many of these directors come from this milieu.

    A recent example is Queen and Slim, which is basically 2019 black Bonnie and Clyde except instead of the pair being amoral thrill seekers who kill for fun, the Clyde character kills a white police officer in self-defense and then have to go on the run.

    It's directed by the very 2019 Melina Matsoukas whose father is of Greek and Jewish descent, and her mother is of Afro-Cuban and Afro-Jamaican descent. She comes from a background of music videos. Another fun 2019 trend is that the main character is American but played by a British actor, in this case, Daniel Kaluuya (The guy with the bulging eyes from 'Get Out'.) whose parents are from Uganda and, in another case of it all being very 2019, whose mother comes from a family of 22.

    Anyway the most 2019 thing of all is in the trailer when the Bonnie character, after becoming a fugitive through her Tinder date's (Yes, that is how they meet in the film) actions, says "Thank you for this journey."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6Th84oGDno

    If this aesthetic can be captured in an image, I think it must be the art student, Sethembile Msezane, who did this pose during the removal of the statue of Cecil Rhodes at the University of Cape Town. Same energy.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/image/10178900-3x2-940x627.jpg

    The irony is beautiful.

    Cecil Rhodes was a totally despicable world government plotter.

    It couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.

  35. So, based on the NYT image, the history that Debbie Grossman wishes was real is basically an endless celebration of homosexual degeneracy and materialism?

    Yikes.

    At least most of the comments on that article are pretty negative expressions of homo fatigue.

  36. Not interested in the gaymen and their apparel. How much for the whole King Crab in the foreground?

  37. “By revisiting and refuting the cultural history of the West, this group is using time as its primary medium, looking backward to inform a different kind of gay future.”

    WAT?

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
    Straight outta Orwell:

    "Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past."
  38. anon[382] • Disclaimer says:

    “My Pie Town,” as the series of altered photographs is called, is the work of the American artist Debbie Grossman: an attempt, she has said, “to make the history I wish was real.”

    Variation on female solipsism sighted.

    Hmm, could I get a Federal arts grant to “make the history of 1980’s Miami I wish was real” by photoshopping myself into a Lambo cruising South Beach? Just wondering.

    Now if we can just convince all the world-saver-wannabes that they don’t have to actually try to create a world consisting of a boot stomping on a human face, forever — they can just photoshop it! Much easier, costs less, no danger of getting into a succession fight and winding up like Trotsky, etc.

    By the way, it looks like Pie Town is pretty close to the literal middle of nowhere. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pie_Town%2C_New_Mexico

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    By the way, it looks like Pie Town is pretty close to the literal middle of nowhere. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
     
    The Daily Pie Cafe is cute, but nobody beats this sign for pure generic appeal:
  39. @Reg Cæsar


    I’ve come to the realization that the Chinese language may cause the Chinese people to skew psychotic in their mental processing.
     
    I’m certainly not fluent, but sounds like bullshit to me.
     
    The technical term is Sapir-Whorf. John McWhorter agrees with you on this point, and he's fun to read.

    Chinese is the most ‘Western-feeling’ of all Asian languages
     
    I think you have this backwards. English is, by far, the most Chinesey of the Indo-European languages.

    Proto-German shed much of the IE grammar, then native speakers of Welsh and Norse in England continued the process, followed finally by the Normans. English words are quite trim, and can often serve as several parts of speech which would require alterations in other tongues. Just like Chinese.

    And thus, like Chinese, word order is critical in a way it is not in Latin or Russian.

    English word order is SVO, Japanese is SOV (Think Yoda speak!). This grammatical feature carries over into other aspects of language, e.g., the formation and positioning of prepositional phrases, dependent clauses, etc. This presents difficulties for English speakers learning Japanese and vice versa. (https://nihongoshark.com/word-order-in-japanese/).

    Chinese word order is usually SVO like English. (https://www.brighthubeducation.com/learning-chinese/42645-mandarin-grammar-how-word-order-is-structured/) This is one of the few aspects of Chinese that makes life easier for English speakers learning the language.

    Interestingly some linguists have posited that German has been transitioning to a SVO language from an earlier language with differing word order grammar. This explains the past piling up of verbs and auxilliaries at the ends of sentences and phrases which in the past has posed a problem for many English speakers learning the language. German grammar seems to be evolving away from this feature.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Interestingly some linguists have posited that German has been transitioning to a SVO language from an earlier language with differing word order grammar.
     
    All the Germanic languages but English have this rule that the verb is always the second element in a sentence, interrogative and imperative sentences excepted. This often happens with adverbs or time expressions. "Gently removes Julia the strudel from the stove." "Last night went I to the cinema."

    I've studied German and Danish, and know that this gets into your blood after awhile. It just feels weird to hear the rule broken.
  40. This art seems like the highbrow equivalent of fan-fiction (or highbrowish)

  41. @bigdicknick
    "By revisiting and refuting the cultural history of the West, this group is using time as its primary medium, looking backward to inform a different kind of gay future."

    WAT?

    Straight outta Orwell:

    “Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.”

  42. An original photograph commissioned by T that draws on themes of queer love and desire by subverting the style of a classical Renaissance painting. From left: Sies Marjan top, $1,295, siesmarjan.com, and stylist’s own collar and T-shirt. Loewe dress, $3,350, and hat, $1,950, loewe.com, and stylist’s own veil and shoes. Y/Project top, $475, shop.nordstrom.com, Gucci pants, $1,150, gucci.com, and stylist’s own collar. Jacquemus top, $718, jacquemus.com, Palomo shirt (worn underneath), about $340, palomospain.com, and Adidas pants, $65, adidas.com.Credit…Photo by James Hawkinson. Styled by Jay Massacret

    I see a lot of weird stuff in this demented culture of ours, but I almost always understand it at some level. If you put a gun to my head, I couldn’t tell you why The New York Times included that laundry list of garment pricing. Does that make any sense to anyone? I mean, seriously…what the Hell?!?

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    I see a lot of weird stuff in this demented culture of ours, but I almost always understand it at some level. If you put a gun to my head, I couldn’t tell you why The New York Times included that laundry list of garment pricing. Does that make any sense to anyone? I mean, seriously…what the Hell?!?
     
    It makes perfect sense.

    Crass, aspirational, fashion-driven materialism is a pillar of the Globhom religion.

  43. @TheMediumIsTheMassage
    The difference in physiognomy between the rugged dust bowl farmer and the effete boy model in the second photo is really striking.

    rugged dust bowl farmer

    White men are the Enemy.

    Real White. Real Men. Enemy.

  44. @Ano
    Love it if Debbie Grossman were to photoshop couple pics of Hill and Bill, replacing him with Huma.

    (She could entitle the series 'My Finger-Pie Town'.)

    Please don't delete me iSteve Moderator! I too just want 'to make the history I wish was real'.

    Yours,

    Penny Lane

    Please don’t delete me iSteve

    Never occurred to me before. Steve’s retconning some of us.

    In a related story, the December fundraiser is going well this year.

    Well?

  45. @Ano
    Love it if Debbie Grossman were to photoshop couple pics of Hill and Bill, replacing him with Huma.

    (She could entitle the series 'My Finger-Pie Town'.)

    Please don't delete me iSteve Moderator! I too just want 'to make the history I wish was real'.

    Yours,

    Penny Lane

    I wonder how Debbie Grossman would react if we said her lesbian utopia lack diversity because it don’t show an Asian woman and a Black woman?

    Come to think of it, how she would react if we do parodies of her utopia paintings? 😉

  46. @George
    "despite a few boy babies, there are no men in Pie Town. "

    Oh Noes, Who was going to save European Jewry from the Nazis? Did the USSR at least get to have males? Watch out what you wish for.

    Who was going to save European Jewry from the Nazis?

    Kick-Ass Babes and Magic Negroes, of course.

    Duh! I swear sometimes I wonder if everyone’s paying attention.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    You must be a Wolfenstein: Youngblood fan:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifBDwcx99mc

    Or not...
  47. @Jus' Saying'...
    English word order is SVO, Japanese is SOV (Think Yoda speak!). This grammatical feature carries over into other aspects of language, e.g., the formation and positioning of prepositional phrases, dependent clauses, etc. This presents difficulties for English speakers learning Japanese and vice versa. (https://nihongoshark.com/word-order-in-japanese/).

    Chinese word order is usually SVO like English. (https://www.brighthubeducation.com/learning-chinese/42645-mandarin-grammar-how-word-order-is-structured/) This is one of the few aspects of Chinese that makes life easier for English speakers learning the language.

    Interestingly some linguists have posited that German has been transitioning to a SVO language from an earlier language with differing word order grammar. This explains the past piling up of verbs and auxilliaries at the ends of sentences and phrases which in the past has posed a problem for many English speakers learning the language. German grammar seems to be evolving away from this feature.

    Interestingly some linguists have posited that German has been transitioning to a SVO language from an earlier language with differing word order grammar.

    All the Germanic languages but English have this rule that the verb is always the second element in a sentence, interrogative and imperative sentences excepted. This often happens with adverbs or time expressions. “Gently removes Julia the strudel from the stove.” “Last night went I to the cinema.”

    I’ve studied German and Danish, and know that this gets into your blood after awhile. It just feels weird to hear the rule broken.

  48. @miss marple
    You and Anon Cow are wrong and probably Chinese psychotics. Besides the indeterminacy along with a metaphorical meaning attached to the ideograms is what I'm talking about not word order and parts of speech. This slippage of meaning and metaphor leads to an odd mix of associations that are only tangentially related to any topic being discussed. In western culture, such frivolity is considered a symptom of being psychotic when displayed in the language of adults.

    You and Anon Cow are wrong and probably Chinese psychotics. Besides the indeterminacy along with a metaphorical meaning attached to the ideograms is what I’m talking about not word order and parts of speech.

    Yes, but the mentality creates the language, not vice versa. They can be rational when they need be, and the words follow.

  49. @Anonymous

    But that’s triggering today, so an artist is erasing all the men from Lee’s photographs to retcon Pie Town in 1940 into a lesbian utopia.
     
    It's vegan soy burger art.

    “to make the history I wish was real.”
     
    Time to give holocaust denial a break. Deniers are just making history they wish were real.

    But fantasy is nothing new. When blacks dominated boxing, the biggest boxing movie was Rocky. Wish fulfillment.

    Ah, at least they’re admitting that lesbo-femism can only exist in fantasy.

  50. The reality of Pie Town, NM is that it is arguably the Premier US location for siting Remote Control Amateur observatories as it at high altitude (8,000 ft), has extremely dark sky conditions (Bortle 1), and a high frequency of clear night sky conditions: https://skypionline.com

    Dan Kurt

  51. @Bitfu
    I think there's something profound to the symbolism of duct-taping a big, phat banana to the middle of Debbie Grossman's queer love photos.

    I agree, provided the next steps are taken.

    2. Remove the banana
    3. Eat the banana
    4.

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
    If the art gallery cameras weren't working and the art gallery guards were sleeping on the job then the trolling gets an A+.
  52. How about something even more Woke? Replace all the white men in these photos with Emmett Till, Michael Brown and of course Trayvon Martin. Any lesbian who protests is just racist.

  53. @anon
    I agree, provided the next steps are taken.

    2. Remove the banana
    3. Eat the banana
    4.

    https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/1203901513464242176

    If the art gallery cameras weren’t working and the art gallery guards were sleeping on the job then the trolling gets an A+.

    • Agree: Abe
  54. @Achmed E. Newman

    English is, by far, the most Chinesey of the Indo-European languages.
     
    Nah. No Western languages are Chinesey in any way. English has a ton of grammar in it, especially with the many different tenses, while grammar is the easiest part of Chinese. Don't get me started on the silliness with the characters.

    English words are quite trim,...
     
    Balderdash! (for example) English has loads of 3 to 5 syllable words, while in Chinese 2 syllables max is the limit, as far as I know.

    “Trim”, in the sense of lacking grammatical endings. What do we have left? Third-person singular present (-s), past tense (-ed), possessive (-‘s, -s’), plural markers (-s). That’s about it.

    Unless you count creoles and pidgins, no Indo-European tongue comes anywhere close to that amount of shedding. (Though the Scandinavians, like Ebonics, have discarded conjugation altogether. The Swedish language do better there.)

    We did in the last 1,000 years what Chinese took several millennia to accomplish.

    • Replies: @International Jew

    Unless you count creoles and pidgins, no Indo-European tongue comes anywhere close to that amount of shedding.
     
    Bulgarian has lost most of the system of noun case endings that are well preserved in the other Slavic languages (that I know a little about).
    , @GFHÄNDEL
    Afrikaans? (Though that too might be proving your point).
  55. looking backward to inform a different kind of gay future.

    That’s practically a paraphrase of Orwell’s “Who controls the past controls the future”.

  56. @Reg Cæsar
    "Trim", in the sense of lacking grammatical endings. What do we have left? Third-person singular present (-s), past tense (-ed), possessive (-'s, -s'), plural markers (-s). That's about it.

    Unless you count creoles and pidgins, no Indo-European tongue comes anywhere close to that amount of shedding. (Though the Scandinavians, like Ebonics, have discarded conjugation altogether. The Swedish language do better there.)

    We did in the last 1,000 years what Chinese took several millennia to accomplish.

    Unless you count creoles and pidgins, no Indo-European tongue comes anywhere close to that amount of shedding.

    Bulgarian has lost most of the system of noun case endings that are well preserved in the other Slavic languages (that I know a little about).

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Bulgarian has lost most of the system of noun case endings that are well preserved in the other Slavic languages (that I know a little about).
     
    Note that Bulgaria, in addition to being ruled by the Turks for centuries, shares long borders with both Greece and Romania. When languages abut one another like that, there is a lot of common influence. Sometimes it's vocabulary, which complicates, and sometimes it's grammar, which simplifies.

    Somewhere along the line when Scandinavians were shaving off Indo-European verb conjugations, the nearby Finns were picking them up.
  57. @Kevin O'Keeffe

    An original photograph commissioned by T that draws on themes of queer love and desire by subverting the style of a classical Renaissance painting. From left: Sies Marjan top, $1,295, siesmarjan.com, and stylist’s own collar and T-shirt. Loewe dress, $3,350, and hat, $1,950, loewe.com, and stylist’s own veil and shoes. Y/Project top, $475, shop.nordstrom.com, Gucci pants, $1,150, gucci.com, and stylist’s own collar. Jacquemus top, $718, jacquemus.com, Palomo shirt (worn underneath), about $340, palomospain.com, and Adidas pants, $65, adidas.com.Credit…Photo by James Hawkinson. Styled by Jay Massacret
     
    I see a lot of weird stuff in this demented culture of ours, but I almost always understand it at some level. If you put a gun to my head, I couldn't tell you why The New York Times included that laundry list of garment pricing. Does that make any sense to anyone? I mean, seriously...what the Hell?!?

    I see a lot of weird stuff in this demented culture of ours, but I almost always understand it at some level. If you put a gun to my head, I couldn’t tell you why The New York Times included that laundry list of garment pricing. Does that make any sense to anyone? I mean, seriously…what the Hell?!?

    It makes perfect sense.

    Crass, aspirational, fashion-driven materialism is a pillar of the Globhom religion.

    • Replies: @Kevin O'Keeffe

    It makes perfect sense.

    Crass, aspirational, fashion-driven materialism is a pillar of the Globhom religion.
     

    I guess you're right. Sometimes, I reflexively think of The New York Times as still being a real newspaper, instead of some lame propaganda outlet for wicked and/or crazy people that want to kill us.
  58. @HammerJack

    Who was going to save European Jewry from the Nazis?
     
    Kick-Ass Babes and Magic Negroes, of course.

    Duh! I swear sometimes I wonder if everyone's paying attention.

    You must be a Wolfenstein: Youngblood fan:

    Or not…

  59. @Anonymous

    But that’s triggering today, so an artist is erasing all the men from Lee’s photographs to retcon Pie Town in 1940 into a lesbian utopia.
     
    It's vegan soy burger art.

    “to make the history I wish was real.”
     
    Time to give holocaust denial a break. Deniers are just making history they wish were real.

    But fantasy is nothing new. When blacks dominated boxing, the biggest boxing movie was Rocky. Wish fulfillment.

    Time to give holocaust denial a break. Deniers are just making history they wish were real.

    Are they, though? Isn’t what deniers of the Nazi genocide wish was true is that the Final Solution had succeeded in its goal?

    (Basically, the deniers simultaneously maintain that it didn’t happen but it should’ve happened. This has been pointed-out by many before me, including Kevin Michael Grace.)

  60. @International Jew

    Unless you count creoles and pidgins, no Indo-European tongue comes anywhere close to that amount of shedding.
     
    Bulgarian has lost most of the system of noun case endings that are well preserved in the other Slavic languages (that I know a little about).

    Bulgarian has lost most of the system of noun case endings that are well preserved in the other Slavic languages (that I know a little about).

    Note that Bulgaria, in addition to being ruled by the Turks for centuries, shares long borders with both Greece and Romania. When languages abut one another like that, there is a lot of common influence. Sometimes it’s vocabulary, which complicates, and sometimes it’s grammar, which simplifies.

    Somewhere along the line when Scandinavians were shaving off Indo-European verb conjugations, the nearby Finns were picking them up.

  61. @anon
    “My Pie Town,” as the series of altered photographs is called, is the work of the American artist Debbie Grossman: an attempt, she has said, “to make the history I wish was real.”

    Variation on female solipsism sighted.

    Hmm, could I get a Federal arts grant to "make the history of 1980's Miami I wish was real" by photoshopping myself into a Lambo cruising South Beach? Just wondering.

    Now if we can just convince all the world-saver-wannabes that they don't have to actually try to create a world consisting of a boot stomping on a human face, forever -- they can just photoshop it! Much easier, costs less, no danger of getting into a succession fight and winding up like Trotsky, etc.

    By the way, it looks like Pie Town is pretty close to the literal middle of nowhere. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pie_Town%2C_New_Mexico

    By the way, it looks like Pie Town is pretty close to the literal middle of nowhere. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

    The Daily Pie Cafe is cute, but nobody beats this sign for pure generic appeal:

  62. ‘I don’t think the New York Times quite knows the meaning of the word “refute” anymore.’

    I don’t think the New York Times quite knows the meaning of the word “inform” anymore, either.

  63. @The Wild Geese Howard

    I see a lot of weird stuff in this demented culture of ours, but I almost always understand it at some level. If you put a gun to my head, I couldn’t tell you why The New York Times included that laundry list of garment pricing. Does that make any sense to anyone? I mean, seriously…what the Hell?!?
     
    It makes perfect sense.

    Crass, aspirational, fashion-driven materialism is a pillar of the Globhom religion.

    It makes perfect sense.

    Crass, aspirational, fashion-driven materialism is a pillar of the Globhom religion.

    I guess you’re right. Sometimes, I reflexively think of The New York Times as still being a real newspaper, instead of some lame propaganda outlet for wicked and/or crazy people that want to kill us.

  64. “[T]he history I wish _were_ real”. I’m no more accepting of the disappearance of the subjunctive than I am of the lesbianization of the American Depression.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    There were lesbians in America during the Depression. The problem is with what real lesbians really did versus the modern false narrative as to what some people think ought to have been.

    Real lesbians did their thing quietly and no one really cared. Every city of any size had a sapphic demimonde. If you knew what to look for you knew where they were. A large proportion of the general population had no idea there was such a thing, kids grew up completely ignorant that such a world existed. They knew their neighbors had an Aunt Sally who dressed mannishly and could fix cars or had a job in an electric motor shop and got all greasy, but figured she was just eccentric. No one cared as long as it wasn’t stuck under decent people’s noses.

    It was a very small part of the population, and they tended to congregate in certain places. Detroit was famous for its lesbian cab drivers, Wichita had a coterie of them who were aircraft mechanics, the Tektronix plant had a lot of them in the CRT shop. Everyone joked about it being in Beaverton, after all.

    Occasionally a local fundamentalist preacher would make an offhand cryptic remark about the iniquity and families with daughters would be discreetly warned to watch out for this potential bad influence, but mostly the straight world just ignored them. That was the appropriate response. They weren’t much threat to young womanhood, normal girls saw them and giggled a little but had no desire to do that. They were correctly viewed as odd and generally not really happy.

    The problem today is not with the average lesbian who wants to be left alone but troublemakers who want to roil the social order. Lesbians, like gays, are an effective tool to do that if politicized. It will turn out poorly for them.
  65. @Reg Cæsar
    "Trim", in the sense of lacking grammatical endings. What do we have left? Third-person singular present (-s), past tense (-ed), possessive (-'s, -s'), plural markers (-s). That's about it.

    Unless you count creoles and pidgins, no Indo-European tongue comes anywhere close to that amount of shedding. (Though the Scandinavians, like Ebonics, have discarded conjugation altogether. The Swedish language do better there.)

    We did in the last 1,000 years what Chinese took several millennia to accomplish.

    Afrikaans? (Though that too might be proving your point).

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Afrikaans is a made-up language, a bowdlerized, bastardized Dutch, and when it dies good riddance. The Boers wanted to save the white race AND the G-d-damned Dutch Reformed Church AND the Afrikaans language. And a comfortable existence with all the work done by childlike, alternately charming and messy and smelly kaffirs at a rate of pay that put Rand in the bank for capital.

    This is like the Christian who wants to uphold Christ AND (insert here). Christianity is about the finished work of Christ, plus and minus nothing. Or you get Mormonism, Jehovah’s Witnessism, Christian Science, or social justice warriors in vestments.

    If in 1960 or 1970 they had smelled the coffee, or maybe the jenkem, and decided it was better to pay white wages and make ZA an attractive place for socialism squeezed white Europeans and less so for blacks, and if they had not given zero fucks about ((world opinion)), they would still have their country. Mandela and his ilk should have been quietly disposed of.
  66. What was the definition of Genocide? Ah yes; “the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group”. It’s closing in.

  67. Anonymous[405] • Disclaimer says:
    @GFHÄNDEL
    Afrikaans? (Though that too might be proving your point).

    Afrikaans is a made-up language, a bowdlerized, bastardized Dutch, and when it dies good riddance. The Boers wanted to save the white race AND the G-d-damned Dutch Reformed Church AND the Afrikaans language. And a comfortable existence with all the work done by childlike, alternately charming and messy and smelly kaffirs at a rate of pay that put Rand in the bank for capital.

    This is like the Christian who wants to uphold Christ AND (insert here). Christianity is about the finished work of Christ, plus and minus nothing. Or you get Mormonism, Jehovah’s Witnessism, Christian Science, or social justice warriors in vestments.

    If in 1960 or 1970 they had smelled the coffee, or maybe the jenkem, and decided it was better to pay white wages and make ZA an attractive place for socialism squeezed white Europeans and less so for blacks, and if they had not given zero fucks about ((world opinion)), they would still have their country. Mandela and his ilk should have been quietly disposed of.

  68. Anonymous[405] • Disclaimer says:
    @MBlanc46
    “[T]he history I wish _were_ real”. I’m no more accepting of the disappearance of the subjunctive than I am of the lesbianization of the American Depression.

    There were lesbians in America during the Depression. The problem is with what real lesbians really did versus the modern false narrative as to what some people think ought to have been.

    Real lesbians did their thing quietly and no one really cared. Every city of any size had a sapphic demimonde. If you knew what to look for you knew where they were. A large proportion of the general population had no idea there was such a thing, kids grew up completely ignorant that such a world existed. They knew their neighbors had an Aunt Sally who dressed mannishly and could fix cars or had a job in an electric motor shop and got all greasy, but figured she was just eccentric. No one cared as long as it wasn’t stuck under decent people’s noses.

    It was a very small part of the population, and they tended to congregate in certain places. Detroit was famous for its lesbian cab drivers, Wichita had a coterie of them who were aircraft mechanics, the Tektronix plant had a lot of them in the CRT shop. Everyone joked about it being in Beaverton, after all.

    Occasionally a local fundamentalist preacher would make an offhand cryptic remark about the iniquity and families with daughters would be discreetly warned to watch out for this potential bad influence, but mostly the straight world just ignored them. That was the appropriate response. They weren’t much threat to young womanhood, normal girls saw them and giggled a little but had no desire to do that. They were correctly viewed as odd and generally not really happy.

    The problem today is not with the average lesbian who wants to be left alone but troublemakers who want to roil the social order. Lesbians, like gays, are an effective tool to do that if politicized. It will turn out poorly for them.

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