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I’d never heard until now of the 1966 German sci-fi TV series Raumpatrouille Orion, which debuted within a couple of weeks of Star Trek debuting in the U.S. (rather like The Munsters and The Adams Family debuting simultaneously a couple of years before).
While Star Trek made it through three seasons, just barely long enough to generate enough episodes for the show to later flourish in syndication, the German series, even with French co-production, proved so expensive that only seven episodes were ever produced. (This hints at the advantages in market scale that have allowed America to become so culturally dominant.)
Still, it remained a big enough cult sensation in Germany over the decades that the cast regularly made Galaxy Quest-style personal appearances.
By way of comparison, here’s a preview for an October 1966 episode of Star Trek:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fu2VYYv5WVI
I wonder if Star Trek actually saved money by being shot in color? The fuzzy color of the time would have allowed the Americans to get away with cheesier sets, while the Germans obviously spent a lot on their shiny sets to be filmed in crisp b&w.
That American sci-fi would come to dominate the world was probably not obvious in the 1920s, especially in Germany, where Fritz Lang was already making big budget sci-fi movies. A lot of cultural developments depend upon who wins the wars. And Star Trek was very much a product of America winning the Big One, especially the now largely forgotten Pacific War, in which Gene Roddenberry flew 89 combat missions.
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Mein Gott, tech musik before tech music.
The German version is like Star Trek but with bad techno music and weird bondage sex scenes.
Er, didn’t Germany lose another ‘Big One’ just a few years before Lang made ‘Metropolis’. Didn’t seem to hurt.
Just preliminary, but it looks like the latest “NAACP bombing” that some leftists have been touting as proof those evil white racists are right around the corner might turn out to be another UVA style hoax.
http://www.johncardillo.com/blog/breaking-did-google-earth-just-debunk-the-naacp-bombing
Barefoot in the Universe? More like Bare …. Anyway, our German friends are getting more Tang than Captain Kirk. So that’s why they call it “Tang” – ach du Lieber!
The look and feel of the original Star Trek aged really quickly in the 1970’s, with the women’s ridiculous miniskirts, big hair, push up bras and go-go boots going out of fashion. By contrast, nothing about the sets and costumes of The Next Generation seems particularly dated, even though that series premiered 28 years ago. What accounts for the difference, other than the fact that the second series had better production values?
They were largely successful in avoiding most of the superficial stuff.
The haircuts in TNG tend to be more timeless than 80s fashion. But it would have been pretty funny if Counselor Troi strutted around wearing a Heathers-style mega scrunchie. A decent number of guest characters and extras had mullets.
One thing that made TNG work was how all the input devices had touchscreens. Touchscreens just became ubiquitous in the last decade, so they don't look hopelessly old fashioned to us. This could change.
They didn't put too many technologies in TNG that have already been surpassed in real life. The original series was short on computer monitors. Data was stored on tapes.
They didn't get everything right. Gene Roddenberry's anti-capitalist ideology is written into several lines of dialog in the first season that seem wildly out of place (still not as out of place as finding a planet where the people are trying and failing to live up to the literal Constitution of the United States, but whatever). The idea of having a psychiatrist as a main character is pretty 80s too.
Isnt this the same cultural process as noted many times at iSteve as seen in fashion, music etc? A slow down in the rate of change.
What about Alien (1979), the way that film looks, the way crew looks - it holds up very well I think. If you could show it to someone who had never seen or heard of it before would they pinpoint its era? The way they could with Star Trek TOS. Yet it was only made 10 years after the end of Star Trek.Replies: @syonredux, @Dave Pinsen, @Former Darfur
Culture shift. TOS Star Trek reflected the late 50s-early 60s Jet Age aesthetic (cf the Connery Bond films, The Man From Uncle, 2001: A Space Odyssey, etc).That aesthetic disintegrated in the early ’70s (perhaps the nadir of Western Civilization).The shift in styles since the late ’80s , in contrast, has been less abrupt, more evolutionary in character.
And many Tulsans know that Oral also cheaped out on these buildings' construction, so that they have needed constant, expensive maintenance over the years to stay presentable and safe to use.Replies: @Jean Cocteausten, @syonredux
Thank you, thank you! I had never heard of it either. I speak German and this will make a great way to chill out before bed.
That German song would have sounded really futuristic back then!
I don’t think the music is from 1966, but I could be wrong about that.
The difference is that in the original Star Trek (and in this German show, and in 2001) the women had ’60s hairdos and ’60s-influenced costumes.
Florian Henkel von What’s-his-name should do a movie version of that German show, using bilingual German actors and filming the dialogue scenes in English & German. Sounds like it would be a guaranteed hit in Germany, at least, and a German cast would be easy on the budget.
A good deal of the fuzziness in Star Trek is only when the camera is on the women. They smeared the lens with Vaseline to soften the focus when a female had a closeup, just before Kirk went in for the clinch.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GaussianGirl
Speaking of not planning ahead for changing ideas about the look of “the future,” if you ever come to Tulsa and have some time, take a look at the god-awful 1960’s Jetsons’-style architecture of Oral Roberts University. I have to wonder if the architects laughed at Oral behind his back when they came up with those designs for him.
And many Tulsans know that Oral also cheaped out on these buildings’ construction, so that they have needed constant, expensive maintenance over the years to stay presentable and safe to use.
"I prefer the folly of enthusiasm to the wisdom of indifference." - Anatole France
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=he4C7gWEpEU
Science fiction is usually the fastest aging genre.
*The TOS Writer's Guide actually explicitly notes that the series is about "1966 Man" in Outer Space.
FYI, for fans of the original Star Trek, these guys made some polished new episodes (some featuring actors from the original show): http://www.startrekcontinues.com
Hat tip to Mark Rippetoe for that.
And now you know the inspiration for Mike Myers’ Sprockets sketch!
Shooting in color made everything more expensive, especially the visual effects which required many strips of costly color film to create.
And it wasn’t a tacky show. Watch it in HD, the style and designs may be dated, but everything is built as if they knew one day it would be seen on a 44″ HD display… in living color.
I think the real secret to the enduring popularity of the original Star Trek series were the women (it is, after all, primarily a show for nerdy guys). The most beautiful actresses of the 1960s (at least those who weren’t movie stars at the time) all appeared in Star Trek. The only ones they missed were Carolyn Jones and Suzanne Pleshette. Mus have been an oversight.
“Science fiction is usually the fastest aging genre.”
q.v. Tomorrowland in the Disney parks.
According to the description on the Youtube page, the song is from the 2003 90-minute theater re-release of the original series. The synths were just a little too clean and consistent to be from 1966.
The Starship Enterprise should have had a lounge where the crew would engage in futuristic folk dancing.
The Starship Enterprise should have had Angie Dickinson, too, but they didn't do that either. ;-)
(Actually, the real tragedy is that had she lived another four or five years, theyreally MIGHT have had Marilyn Monroe, who would have filled out the Starfleet female uniform better than any actress that ever actually did wear it.)
Steve said that s.f. ages quicker than other genres. I’m wondering if it’s more that hard sf or sf that wants to portray or predict real future technology ages faster, but I’m not sure that sf that doesn’t give a damn about the gadgets ages as quickly. PKD’s doesn’t seem to be much schlockier than it would have been when it came out. But maybe that’s just the Dickhead in me speaking . . .
Watching that Teutonic sci-fi clip had me expecting Kraftwerk to intone, “Wir fahrn fahrn fahrn auf der Autobahn….”
In this universe, not every planet has a breathable atmosphere, so it it necessary to wear a clear plastic space helmet … with a hole in the top to use as a handle.
Raumpatrouille. Episode 1, helmet handle
The German version of “Space, the final frontier”:
One of these spaceships is the Orion, a small part of the giant security system which protects the Earth from extraterrestial threats.
http://www.johncardillo.com/blog/breaking-did-google-earth-just-debunk-the-naacp-bombingReplies: @Steve Sailer
Thanks. I’ll post.
“By contrast, nothing about the sets and costumes of The Next Generation seems particularly dated, even though that series premiered 28 years ago. What accounts for the difference, other than the fact that the second series had better production values?”
“Star Trek The Next Generation” is a bad example because in their fictional universe they were not supposed to be living in 1987 even though the show started in 1987. Watch a high school teen film for example from 28 years ago that actually took place in the than present setting and it will definitely look dated compared to today. Watch 1987’s “Can’t Buy Me Love” or “License To Drive” where you see people with extremely huge ugly looking cellphones, extremely huge ugly bulky looking desktop computers, very different looking Pepsi cans that had the color white before switching to the color blue, and people listening to music in tape cassette players just to name a few. Also you were way more likely to see jheri curls in 1987 than today.
You would have to be blinder than Mr. Magoo if you have a hard time telling 1987 apart from 2015.
German alternative to Trek’s laid back, liberal hippy Federation.
Raumpatrouille. Episode 1
General, the chief of the Space Rapid Deployment Force is here.
…
Yes, he landed on Rhea against orders.
…
But he ignored an Alpha Order directly from Supreme Space Command.
…
I know very well how much you’d like to see commander McLane a convict working in the phosphorous swamps.
He gets assigned to space patrol, starting the series. It's really just the old 'hotshot pilot who can't get along with his superiors' routine you see in scifi all the time--not particularly German.
Shatner On LSD: BACK TO THE SHIP!!!
Well. Now I see why I’m such a rotten dancer. It’s in my German genes.
Here’s a Teutonic Trek tidbit for you. It’s the Deutsch dub of the “Kirk and Spock dress up as Nazis” episode:
William Shatner, garbed as Gestapo, gabbing in German … reels the mind.
A Brit series called UFO has to get a mention here:
The whole series is online and it’s great. You just have to love those purple wigs and silver space suits.
Can you get this with subtitles somewhere?
And yes, this is the most German thing I have ever seen. I do kind of wonder if the whole ‘we cannot produce something unless it is of the highest quality’ bit hurt them here. Doctor Who, for example, made lots of cheap episodes and turned itself into a cult classic.
Science fiction and historical fiction are quite similar in that regard. SF gives us the present’s vision of the future, while HF gives the present’s vision of the past.So, TOS Star Trek shows us the 1966* version of the future.Similarly, Kubrick’s Spartacus is a 1960 take on ancient Rome.
*The TOS Writer’s Guide actually explicitly notes that the series is about “1966 Man” in Outer Space.
And many Tulsans know that Oral also cheaped out on these buildings' construction, so that they have needed constant, expensive maintenance over the years to stay presentable and safe to use.Replies: @Jean Cocteausten, @syonredux
Lots of buildings from the 60s have “that Jetsons look”. May not be your cup of tea, but personally I enjoy things built by a society that was still optimistic.
“I prefer the folly of enthusiasm to the wisdom of indifference.” – Anatole France
I think it was a conscious choice of the producers of The Next Generation to try to avoid putting current fashions into the show. One way to do that is when designing a specific costume, set, hairdo, etc, do a quick analysis to see if what you are doing would fit in the current time but not 20 years ago or 50 years ago.
They were largely successful in avoiding most of the superficial stuff.
The haircuts in TNG tend to be more timeless than 80s fashion. But it would have been pretty funny if Counselor Troi strutted around wearing a Heathers-style mega scrunchie. A decent number of guest characters and extras had mullets.
One thing that made TNG work was how all the input devices had touchscreens. Touchscreens just became ubiquitous in the last decade, so they don’t look hopelessly old fashioned to us. This could change.
They didn’t put too many technologies in TNG that have already been surpassed in real life. The original series was short on computer monitors. Data was stored on tapes.
They didn’t get everything right. Gene Roddenberry’s anti-capitalist ideology is written into several lines of dialog in the first season that seem wildly out of place (still not as out of place as finding a planet where the people are trying and failing to live up to the literal Constitution of the United States, but whatever). The idea of having a psychiatrist as a main character is pretty 80s too.
And many Tulsans know that Oral also cheaped out on these buildings' construction, so that they have needed constant, expensive maintenance over the years to stay presentable and safe to use.Replies: @Jean Cocteausten, @syonredux
The Brazilians did Oral Roberts one better; he built the campus of the future, today!But they built an entire city: Brasilia
Interesting how Steampunk takes that weakness and turns it into a genre…..
Note that if you watch TOS on television or Netflix these days, you are watching a re-edited version of the show with ‘improved’ special effects. The result is a ghastly and obtuse amalgam of 60’s television technology and recent CGI. I’m not sure who this new version pleases, but it’s in very poor taste and is akin to the colorization of B&W films that caused an uproar years ago. What’s ironic is that the disjointed experience of watching the new version makes the acting seem hammier than before, and calls attention to other production flaws that were previously forgivable. I used to consider TOS one of the best TV series ever, but watching the new version makes me realize perhaps it’s just mediocre, just like all my friends have said over the years.
By contrast, nothing about the sets and costumes of The Next Generation seems particularly dated, even though that series premiered 28 years ago. What accounts for the difference, other than the fact that the second series had better production values?
Isnt this the same cultural process as noted many times at iSteve as seen in fashion, music etc? A slow down in the rate of change.
What about Alien (1979), the way that film looks, the way crew looks – it holds up very well I think. If you could show it to someone who had never seen or heard of it before would they pinpoint its era? The way they could with Star Trek TOS. Yet it was only made 10 years after the end of Star Trek.
Yes, but those were pivotal ten years.
The original soundtrack for the TV show can be found here:
The show was probably simply too expensive for the producing German TV channel (even with French co-operation).
WW1 was much less damaging to the German psyche. For one thing,the country wasn’t occupied and split in two….
WW1 was much less damaging to the German psyche. For one thing,the country wasn’t occupied and split in half….
One of these spaceships is the Orion, a small part of the giant security system which protects the Earth from extraterrestial threats.Replies: @Bobbala
German “exploration” was still uncool …
No, but two million ethnic Germans were arbitrarily assigned to a new state ruled by ethnic Czechs, several major industrial cities were handed over to Poland, one of Prussia’s main ports was declared a “free city”, the Alsace was given to France, the Rheinland was occupied by French soldiers, and all overseas colonies were lost. This in a country that had come up aces in every previous major challenge for the previous hundred years, and seemed on a clear path to major power status in 1913. WWI was in many ways more damaging to the German psyche than WWII. Germans were truly in shock and disbelief about the damage WWI caused. I think most Germans realized even at the time that WWII was a crazy gamble that would probably fail.
As for population losses:And here are German military losses in WW1:vs WW2:Which had been taken from France in 1871, hardly an integral component of the German state.And the overseas colonies were recent acquisitions and of little economic valueGermany already had major power status in 1913.The Germans were in shock over the idea that they had lost the war.Remember, they came closer to victory in 1914-18 than they did in 1939-45.By 1918, they had knocked the Russians out of the war (something that they did not do the second time around) and won enormous economic and territorial concessions in the the East (cf the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk).To many Germans, it seemed that the War was already won in 1918.Hence, the shock of the November armistice:"What do you mean we lost? I thought that we had just won!"
The shock of WW2 was quite different.Here there could be no illusions of victory, of defeat coming from a "stab in the back." Germany was crushed, humiliated.Even worse, the regime that ruled the nation from 1933 to 1945 became the very symbol of evil in the eyes of the world.
No, WW2 was far more psychologically devastating to the German psyche than was WW1Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
Wow, it's hard to be more wrong then that. After WWI they basically got straight back up for round 2 but with added anger/vengence. The 'damage' just caused the intensification of certain trends/attitudes. After WWII... all those trends and attitudes that had been brewing (some for many centuries) died permanently, and the tremors might also mark the death stroke for several other western ethnies psyches (maybe even leading to the demise of the ethnies themselves), not just the Germans but especially them.Replies: @Twinkie
“syon says:
Science fiction and historical fiction are quite similar in that regard. SF gives us the present’s vision of the future, while HF gives the present’s vision of the past.So, TOS Star Trek shows us the 1966* version of the future.Similarly, Kubrick’s Spartacus is a 1960 take on ancient Rome.”
In think Spartacus holds up exceedingly well, especially compared to crappy roman epics like “Gladiator”. One obvious anachronistic aspect to Spartacus was the way the story projects the fascist/progressive conflict onto ancient Rome, but that is probably due to the writing – the novel upon which the film was based was written by black-listed commie Howard Fast, and the screenplay was by blacklisted Hollywood commie Dalton Trumbo. Visually, however, the film is – I think – as good a depiction of the ancient world as has ever been put on film. And that was due to Kubrick.
A note on the “slowing-down” phenomenon that others have mentioned: consider the movie “Gladiator”. It was released nearly fifteen years ago, yet it has virtually the same look and feel as movies today.
Another thing to bear in mind is that even allegedly more "authentic" hair and costumes often have more to do with the era in which the film was made than with the era in which it is ostensibly set. A friend of mine once compared McCabe and Mrs Miller (1971) to Rio Bravo (1959), noting that the unkempt shagginess of the former was much more authentic looking than the latter's late '50s sheen. I pointed out to him that the long hair and beards of McCabe and Mrs Miller had rather less to do with how the real 19th century West might have looked and rather more to do with the aesthetic of the early '70s.
* As a general rule, it's harder for women in film to achieve a "timeless" look. As with first names, women's fashions are much more evanescent than are men's.Note, for example, how the women's hairstyles (to be technical, wigs) in Raumpatrouille Orion are much more of the '60s than are the men's more purely functional hairstylesReplies: @Ravelin
“WWI was in many ways more damaging to the German psyche than WWII. Germans were truly in shock and disbelief about the damage WWI caused.”
It’s easy to forget today that in 1870-1871, some 40 years prior to WWI, Germany (well, not even all off Germany, the Prussian’s North German confederation) soundly and handily defeated France and had a victory parade in Paris…
Franco-Prussian War:
Brave New World has gotten more timely with age, if anything. Lenina Crowne has jumped out of the novel’s pages and into the pickup scene of the real world. Just give Lenina some tattoos, piercings, a smart phone and some social media accounts, and she would fit right in.
Wo ist der subtitlen? I checked out the first episode, supposedly with English subtitles, but no dice.
“Blakes 7″ was a British sci-fi series which came out in the late 1970’s. In spite of this it was shockingly cheesy in terms of set design, a lot worse in this respect than Star Trek or the ‘German Star Trek”.
Are you mad? I’m still suffering from bad Klingon opera induced PTSD.
“especially the now largely forgotten Pacific War”
Interesting, is is really true that the Pacific war has been sidelined in the US’ popular imagination? I wonder if that is because it is nowadays considered as “un-pc”, due to all the supposed anti-Japanese “racism” (like internment camps) and the atomic bombings.
Recently saw "The Pacific." That should have been done years ago. We also need to make a remake of God is my co-pilot for a younger generation.Replies: @syonredux
When people create science fiction they attempt to extrapolate today’s trends into the future. The problem is that today’s “trends” are not actually trends, but fads. So rather than depicting the future, most science fiction depicts a caricature of the time that it was made in.
Future dance (“we call it the tick-tock”) is nearly always a bad idea (see Moon Zero Two). Stainless steel continental kitchen bridge (w/ espresso machine) v. Apple showroom bridge: which would win? It’s a good job space lady’s perfume can heal facial scarring.
Not sure I’d agree that ST:NG had “timeless” hairdos. The show just had the good luck to start at the end of the 80s. But look at season 1 and you see Tasha with a variant on the classic “short” haircut (princess Di started it),. Deanna Troi with the classic big hair, and Dr. Crusher with the feathered brush back. All pretty classic 80s looks.
Then they straighten out and go more classic for a while, which is also pretty much what happened in the 90s. Worf, on the other hand, gets a pony tail, and it doesn’t get any more early 90s than that.
There was no “fuzzy color” back then, only fuzzy tv sets and fuzzy tv engineers. If you’re lucky enough to see a brand new 35mm Technicolor film print of, say, 1937’s “Adventures of Robin Hood” your ideas of fuzzy color may vanish rather quickly.
Many syndicated film prints that got bicycled around over the years were treated badly by incompetent TV projectionists and then stored badly so the colors would begin to fade (the fading usually the result of inferior film stocks used to reprint the shows for tv).
Many syndicated film prints that got bicycled around over the years were treated badly by incompetent TV projectionists and then stored badly so the colors would begin to fade (the fading usually the result of inferior film stocks used to reprint the shows for tv).
The color film itself was capable of excellent sharpness and vividness, although the experienced eye can usually correctly tell a Technicolor three film camera print from Kodachrome from 5247 camera originals printed out. Color video, though, was nowhere near that level. Monochrome video was capable of a better level of detail than color well into the eighties.
Both the original Macintosh and the original NeXT computers were monochrome for that very reason. Along with a detestation of cooling fans and their noise, Steve Jobs felt that good monochrome was better than almost as good color. The market had said otherwise twice before (with the Apple IIgs and the Macintosh) but Steve did not care what other people thought. In all those cases, color followed shortly, and although the NeXT slabs were offered in color and mono versions to the end of NeXT hardware production, of course color outsold mono many to one. It is also worth noting that the color NeXTstations had very, very good color and detail, their displays were much better than PCs of the day. When he did color, he did it well.Replies: @Steve Sailer
And after WW2:
Add that to the fact that Germany was occupied by foreign troops and dismembered….
As for population losses:
And here are German military losses in WW1:
vs WW2:
Which had been taken from France in 1871, hardly an integral component of the German state.
And the overseas colonies were recent acquisitions and of little economic value
Germany already had major power status in 1913.
The Germans were in shock over the idea that they had lost the war.Remember, they came closer to victory in 1914-18 than they did in 1939-45.By 1918, they had knocked the Russians out of the war (something that they did not do the second time around) and won enormous economic and territorial concessions in the the East (cf the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk).To many Germans, it seemed that the War was already won in 1918.Hence, the shock of the November armistice:”What do you mean we lost? I thought that we had just won!”
The shock of WW2 was quite different.Here there could be no illusions of victory, of defeat coming from a “stab in the back.” Germany was crushed, humiliated.Even worse, the regime that ruled the nation from 1933 to 1945 became the very symbol of evil in the eyes of the world.
No, WW2 was far more psychologically devastating to the German psyche than was WW1
Isnt this the same cultural process as noted many times at iSteve as seen in fashion, music etc? A slow down in the rate of change.
What about Alien (1979), the way that film looks, the way crew looks - it holds up very well I think. If you could show it to someone who had never seen or heard of it before would they pinpoint its era? The way they could with Star Trek TOS. Yet it was only made 10 years after the end of Star Trek.Replies: @syonredux, @Dave Pinsen, @Former Darfur
Alien occupies the sweet spot between the ’70s and the ’80s. Had it been made circa 1985, we would have been in deep ’80s territory.To see what a difference a few years can make, just compare Jane Badler’s hair in the the 1983 V miniseries to her hair in the 1984-85 series.By that point, she had ’80s-style big hair.
TOS Star Trek plays a lot better when you watch it with the original special effects
This is Von Braun Space Exploration. As it should have been.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slYW7kkHyI4
The whole series is online and it's great. You just have to love those purple wigs and silver space suits.Replies: @22pp22, @syonredux
There’s also Space 1999.
Science fiction and historical fiction are quite similar in that regard. SF gives us the present’s vision of the future, while HF gives the present’s vision of the past.So, TOS Star Trek shows us the 1966* version of the future.Similarly, Kubrick’s Spartacus is a 1960 take on ancient Rome."
In think Spartacus holds up exceedingly well, especially compared to crappy roman epics like "Gladiator". One obvious anachronistic aspect to Spartacus was the way the story projects the fascist/progressive conflict onto ancient Rome, but that is probably due to the writing - the novel upon which the film was based was written by black-listed commie Howard Fast, and the screenplay was by blacklisted Hollywood commie Dalton Trumbo. Visually, however, the film is - I think - as good a depiction of the ancient world as has ever been put on film. And that was due to Kubrick.
A note on the "slowing-down" phenomenon that others have mentioned: consider the movie "Gladiator". It was released nearly fifteen years ago, yet it has virtually the same look and feel as movies today.Replies: @syonredux
It’s a good film, but even a quick glance would be enough for someone to tell that it was made in the late ‘5os-early ’60s. For example, just look at the hair and makeup on the female characters*.They have a lot more to do with the mid-20th West than with Ancient Rome.
Another thing to bear in mind is that even allegedly more “authentic” hair and costumes often have more to do with the era in which the film was made than with the era in which it is ostensibly set. A friend of mine once compared McCabe and Mrs Miller (1971) to Rio Bravo (1959), noting that the unkempt shagginess of the former was much more authentic looking than the latter’s late ’50s sheen. I pointed out to him that the long hair and beards of McCabe and Mrs Miller had rather less to do with how the real 19th century West might have looked and rather more to do with the aesthetic of the early ’70s.
* As a general rule, it’s harder for women in film to achieve a “timeless” look. As with first names, women’s fashions are much more evanescent than are men’s.Note, for example, how the women’s hairstyles (to be technical, wigs) in Raumpatrouille Orion are much more of the ’60s than are the men’s more purely functional hairstyles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interster
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9vf7OQ1X7g
The TOS Star Trek episode “Balance of Terror” was pretty obviously made as a kind of call-back to the Pacific War, with the Romulans* essentially serving as Imperial Japan in space.Note, too, how Spock’s Vulcan heritage links him to the Romulans in the mind of the suspicious Stiles (cf the West Coast internment camps, etc):
http://www.hulu.com/watch/283833
*Yes, I know that there is also a bit of Ancient Rome in the mix as well
From Wikipedia:
"Balance of Terror", written by Paul Schneider and directed by Vincent McEveety, is the fourteenth episode of the first-season of the original science fiction television series Star Trek that first aired on December 15, 1966. It was repeated on August 3, 1967. The episode is a science-fiction version of a submarine film; writer Paul Schneider drew on the film The Enemy Below, casting the Enterprise as the American destroyer and the Romulan vessel as the German submarine.[1]Replies: @syonredux
Another thing to bear in mind is that even allegedly more "authentic" hair and costumes often have more to do with the era in which the film was made than with the era in which it is ostensibly set. A friend of mine once compared McCabe and Mrs Miller (1971) to Rio Bravo (1959), noting that the unkempt shagginess of the former was much more authentic looking than the latter's late '50s sheen. I pointed out to him that the long hair and beards of McCabe and Mrs Miller had rather less to do with how the real 19th century West might have looked and rather more to do with the aesthetic of the early '70s.
* As a general rule, it's harder for women in film to achieve a "timeless" look. As with first names, women's fashions are much more evanescent than are men's.Note, for example, how the women's hairstyles (to be technical, wigs) in Raumpatrouille Orion are much more of the '60s than are the men's more purely functional hairstylesReplies: @Ravelin
Interster – a South African take on Gerry Anderson-style “Supermarionation” – is also relevant. It was produced in the late 1970s/early 1980s, since – as I recall – the South Africans had a hard time importing TV programming to air on SABC, for obvious reasons.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interster
RE: Raumpatrouille Orion,
Here’s a link to an episode with English subtitles
Raumpatrouille. Episode 1
General, the chief of the Space Rapid Deployment Force is here.
...
Yes, he landed on Rhea against orders.
...
But he ignored an Alpha Order directly from Supreme Space Command.
...
I know very well how much you'd like to see commander McLane a convict working in the phosphorous swamps.Replies: @SFG
Just followed the link–thanks, Syon.
He gets assigned to space patrol, starting the series. It’s really just the old ‘hotshot pilot who can’t get along with his superiors’ routine you see in scifi all the time–not particularly German.
And yes, this is the most German thing I have ever seen. I do kind of wonder if the whole 'we cannot produce something unless it is of the highest quality' bit hurt them here. Doctor Who, for example, made lots of cheap episodes and turned itself into a cult classic.Replies: @Francis
Maybe, but I’m still driving a ’78 diesel in almost cherry condition…
“Alien occupies the sweet spot between the ’70s and the ’80s. Had it been made circa 1985, we would have been in deep ’80s territory.To see what a difference a few years can make, just compare Jane Badler’s hair in the the 1983 V miniseries to her hair in the 1984-85 series.By that point, she had ’80s-style big hair.”
The real 1980s did not begin until around when Ronald Reagan started running for a second term for president.
You still saw traces of the 1970s in the very early 1980s. I remember watching an ABC After School Special from 1981 which featured a female teenager rocking the Farrah Fawcett hairstyle. The Farrah Fawcett hairstyle is from the 1970s but the girl was sporting it in 1981.
You also still had some disco songs in the very early 1980s like “Funky Town” and “Celebration”.
Or maybe I'm wrong about that… Prince and Whitney Houston were about to burst upon the scene.
Anyway, funk isn't disco…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slYW7kkHyI4
The whole series is online and it's great. You just have to love those purple wigs and silver space suits.Replies: @22pp22, @syonredux
UFO is a fantastic example.It’s a 1970 TV show set in 1980. That’s only ten years in the future, but it still manages to completely fail at accurately predicting clothes, fashions, hairstyles, etc.
They got the beige and turtlenecks right. I remember lots of beige and taupe back then. Some of the men also wear a sort of jumpsuit that looks like what my father wore to cross-country ski circa 1980. So apart from the moon base and the purple wigs, I think they were chillingly prescient.
Maybe American SF became so predominant because of the Baby Boom and the space race? SF attracts a lot of young folk, especially boys, and American elementary school libraries stocked a lot of juvenile SF (Rocketship Galileo type stuff):
And as for Aliens, circa 1986?
Interesting, is is really true that the Pacific war has been sidelined in the US' popular imagination? I wonder if that is because it is nowadays considered as "un-pc", due to all the supposed anti-Japanese "racism" (like internment camps) and the atomic bombings.Replies: @flyingtiger
In the 80s and 90s, the Japanese were buying up America. We believed that they were going to take over. As a result, we did not want to offend our future masters by mentioning the Pacific war. This seems to be the case today. Note that when they did “flag of our Fathers,” The made another movie showing the Japanese side.
Recently saw “The Pacific.” That should have been done years ago. We also need to make a remake of God is my co-pilot for a younger generation.
Isnt this the same cultural process as noted many times at iSteve as seen in fashion, music etc? A slow down in the rate of change.
What about Alien (1979), the way that film looks, the way crew looks - it holds up very well I think. If you could show it to someone who had never seen or heard of it before would they pinpoint its era? The way they could with Star Trek TOS. Yet it was only made 10 years after the end of Star Trek.Replies: @syonredux, @Dave Pinsen, @Former Darfur
Speaking of Alien, a cool aesthetic analysis of its typography: http://typesetinthefuture.com/alien/
Isnt this the same cultural process as noted many times at iSteve as seen in fashion, music etc? A slow down in the rate of change.
What about Alien (1979), the way that film looks, the way crew looks - it holds up very well I think. If you could show it to someone who had never seen or heard of it before would they pinpoint its era? The way they could with Star Trek TOS. Yet it was only made 10 years after the end of Star Trek.Replies: @syonredux, @Dave Pinsen, @Former Darfur
What about Alien (1979), the way that film looks, the way crew looks – it holds up very well I think. If you could show it to someone who had never seen or heard of it before would they pinpoint its era? The way they could with Star Trek TOS. Yet it was only made 10 years after the end of Star Trek.
Yes, but those were pivotal ten years.
http://www.hulu.com/watch/283833
*Yes, I know that there is also a bit of Ancient Rome in the mix as wellReplies: @Former Darfur
Balance of Terror is an intentional rifacimento of the submarine combat film, The Enemy Below.
From Wikipedia:
“Balance of Terror”, written by Paul Schneider and directed by Vincent McEveety, is the fourteenth episode of the first-season of the original science fiction television series Star Trek that first aired on December 15, 1966. It was repeated on August 3, 1967. The episode is a science-fiction version of a submarine film; writer Paul Schneider drew on the film The Enemy Below, casting the Enterprise as the American destroyer and the Romulan vessel as the German submarine.[1]
1.The Earth-Romulan war of a century ago (cf how the War in the Pacific ended roughly 20 years prior to the filming of "Balance of Terror") was characterized by Spock as a savage struggle, with no captives being taken. That sounds a lot more like the American experience in the Pacific than the War in Europe.
2. Note how the episode begins with a sneak attack (cf Pearl Harbor)
3.Note how the Romulans have a tradition of honorable suicide. Their ships carry atomic bombs so that they can destroy themselves, and the Romulan Commander chooses death over surrender.That reads more like WW2 Japan than WW2 Germany.
4.Lastly, note the fear that Spock's Vulcan heritage means that he is a traitor (the Romulans and Vulcans are both off-shoots of the same ancestral stock).Again, this seems to be echoing concerns over Japanese-American loyalty in WW2.
*Although some people have pointed out similarities to another WW2 submarine film, Run Silent,Run Deep, which was set in the Pacific:http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Balance_of_Terror_%28episode%29
Many syndicated film prints that got bicycled around over the years were treated badly by incompetent TV projectionists and then stored badly so the colors would begin to fade (the fading usually the result of inferior film stocks used to reprint the shows for tv).Replies: @Former Darfur
There was no “fuzzy color” back then, only fuzzy tv sets and fuzzy tv engineers. If you’re lucky enough to see a brand new 35mm Technicolor film print of, say, 1937′s “Adventures of Robin Hood” your ideas of fuzzy color may vanish rather quickly.
Many syndicated film prints that got bicycled around over the years were treated badly by incompetent TV projectionists and then stored badly so the colors would begin to fade (the fading usually the result of inferior film stocks used to reprint the shows for tv).
The color film itself was capable of excellent sharpness and vividness, although the experienced eye can usually correctly tell a Technicolor three film camera print from Kodachrome from 5247 camera originals printed out. Color video, though, was nowhere near that level. Monochrome video was capable of a better level of detail than color well into the eighties.
Both the original Macintosh and the original NeXT computers were monochrome for that very reason. Along with a detestation of cooling fans and their noise, Steve Jobs felt that good monochrome was better than almost as good color. The market had said otherwise twice before (with the Apple IIgs and the Macintosh) but Steve did not care what other people thought. In all those cases, color followed shortly, and although the NeXT slabs were offered in color and mono versions to the end of NeXT hardware production, of course color outsold mono many to one. It is also worth noting that the color NeXTstations had very, very good color and detail, their displays were much better than PCs of the day. When he did color, he did it well.
Many syndicated film prints that got bicycled around over the years were treated badly by incompetent TV projectionists and then stored badly so the colors would begin to fade (the fading usually the result of inferior film stocks used to reprint the shows for tv).
The color film itself was capable of excellent sharpness and vividness, although the experienced eye can usually correctly tell a Technicolor three film camera print from Kodachrome from 5247 camera originals printed out. Color video, though, was nowhere near that level. Monochrome video was capable of a better level of detail than color well into the eighties.
Both the original Macintosh and the original NeXT computers were monochrome for that very reason. Along with a detestation of cooling fans and their noise, Steve Jobs felt that good monochrome was better than almost as good color. The market had said otherwise twice before (with the Apple IIgs and the Macintosh) but Steve did not care what other people thought. In all those cases, color followed shortly, and although the NeXT slabs were offered in color and mono versions to the end of NeXT hardware production, of course color outsold mono many to one. It is also worth noting that the color NeXTstations had very, very good color and detail, their displays were much better than PCs of the day. When he did color, he did it well.Replies: @Steve Sailer
I remember in the mid-80s assuming that, well, _of course_, monochrome monitors for personal computers are superior for business uses over color monitors. You could get like 320 by 200 resolution in color but something like 720 by 450 resolution in mono with a Hercules (?) graphics card. But it turned out that everybody at work had to have color.
I would have taken a TTL green or amber MDA monitor over EGA or CGA color any day for word processing and accounting software on a PC. But, I was lucky and escaped the DOS PC days at work because my employers had DEC terminals off a mini, then VAXstations, then Sun workstations. My home collection now includes a pre-purple-swastika red badge 68000 Sun-2, a SPARCstation-20 running NeXT, and a 'bull goose Mac' with the Symbolics MacIvory card set. All saved from the dumpster through out and out fraud. I'll let history be my judge, it always is anyway.
I did PCs at a second job and remember the litany of PC standards well, to say nothing of the Apple ][, the //c, early Amiga (remember Andy Draws Debbie?) and the other bitty boxes. PC video was lousy until well after the first VGA machines. But in the mid-90s, the gamers drove the video card industry and in four or five years the top PC cards allowed a user running Linux to rival a high end Sun or SGI box at a fraction of the price.
The Starship Enterprise should have had a lounge where the crew would engage in futuristic folk dancing.
The Starship Enterprise should have had Angie Dickinson, too, but they didn’t do that either. 😉
(Actually, the real tragedy is that had she lived another four or five years, theyreally MIGHT have had Marilyn Monroe, who would have filled out the Starfleet female uniform better than any actress that ever actually did wear it.)
I remember in the mid-80s assuming that, well, _of course_, monochrome monitors for personal computers are superior for business uses over color monitors. You could get like 320 by 200 resolution in color but something like 720 by 450 resolution in mono with a Hercules (?) graphics card. But it turned out that everybody at work had to have color.
I would have taken a TTL green or amber MDA monitor over EGA or CGA color any day for word processing and accounting software on a PC. But, I was lucky and escaped the DOS PC days at work because my employers had DEC terminals off a mini, then VAXstations, then Sun workstations. My home collection now includes a pre-purple-swastika red badge 68000 Sun-2, a SPARCstation-20 running NeXT, and a ‘bull goose Mac’ with the Symbolics MacIvory card set. All saved from the dumpster through out and out fraud. I’ll let history be my judge, it always is anyway.
I did PCs at a second job and remember the litany of PC standards well, to say nothing of the Apple ][, the //c, early Amiga (remember Andy Draws Debbie?) and the other bitty boxes. PC video was lousy until well after the first VGA machines. But in the mid-90s, the gamers drove the video card industry and in four or five years the top PC cards allowed a user running Linux to rival a high end Sun or SGI box at a fraction of the price.
Cool. Never heard of Raumpatrouille Orion before (but I guess that’s not surprising). It’s a shame von Braun couldn’t have been a technical advisor on it, the way he did for Disney and those Colliers articles.
Huge original Star Trek fan here!
I bet the Germans didn’t have anything like Shatner’s overacting. That plus the show’s Shakespearian pretentiousness made Star Trek dramatic, especially on my parents’ black and white TV. (I didn’t see it in color until later, and I still think it’s better in B&W.)
Even fuzziness can add drama. Like the first moon walk: the signal was awful, but nothing beat those ghostly images and static-filled audio for giving the impression that something really heavy was happening a long, long way away…
There was something Twilight Zone and Film Noir about the original Star Trek that no later versions had. In its later forms, the franchise became a video comic book filled with makeup gimmicks and nerdy FX.
The real 1980s did not begin until around when Ronald Reagan started running for a second term for president.
You still saw traces of the 1970s in the very early 1980s. I remember watching an ABC After School Special from 1981 which featured a female teenager rocking the Farrah Fawcett hairstyle. The Farrah Fawcett hairstyle is from the 1970s but the girl was sporting it in 1981.
You also still had some disco songs in the very early 1980s like "Funky Town" and "Celebration".Replies: @Hal, @Reg Cæsar
Lasnerian dating?
The opening ceremony of the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics on July 28, 1984 was one moment when it became clear that the Seventies were definitively over.
Wow!Replies: @a Newsreader
The real 1980s did not begin until around when Ronald Reagan started running for a second term for president.
You still saw traces of the 1970s in the very early 1980s. I remember watching an ABC After School Special from 1981 which featured a female teenager rocking the Farrah Fawcett hairstyle. The Farrah Fawcett hairstyle is from the 1970s but the girl was sporting it in 1981.
You also still had some disco songs in the very early 1980s like "Funky Town" and "Celebration".Replies: @Hal, @Reg Cæsar
One out of Minneapolis, the other, Newark. Not exactly places in the vanguard of culture.
Or maybe I’m wrong about that… Prince and Whitney Houston were about to burst upon the scene.
Anyway, funk isn’t disco…
Speaking of cheesy German soundtracks, consider the National Socialist roots of the Muppet Show theme.
The fellow credited with the ’70s tune died within a year or so of its appearance (quite possibly of the yet-to-be-identified AIDS), so we may never know whence he got the strain… excuse me, motif.
As for population losses:And here are German military losses in WW1:vs WW2:Which had been taken from France in 1871, hardly an integral component of the German state.And the overseas colonies were recent acquisitions and of little economic valueGermany already had major power status in 1913.The Germans were in shock over the idea that they had lost the war.Remember, they came closer to victory in 1914-18 than they did in 1939-45.By 1918, they had knocked the Russians out of the war (something that they did not do the second time around) and won enormous economic and territorial concessions in the the East (cf the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk).To many Germans, it seemed that the War was already won in 1918.Hence, the shock of the November armistice:"What do you mean we lost? I thought that we had just won!"
The shock of WW2 was quite different.Here there could be no illusions of victory, of defeat coming from a "stab in the back." Germany was crushed, humiliated.Even worse, the regime that ruled the nation from 1933 to 1945 became the very symbol of evil in the eyes of the world.
No, WW2 was far more psychologically devastating to the German psyche than was WW1Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
Not historically. WW2 basically restored Germany to the pre 1871 status quo of being a fragmented economic power with little political or military power projection heavily dependent on allies, a condition that has been true of most German states for most of European history. For many Germans “normalcy” had basically been restored. The 1871-1945 period is the real anomaly. England, France and Russia are historically the nations with Messiah complexes, not Germany.
“No, WW2 was far more psychologically devastating to the German psyche than was WW1”
Yes, historically
Prussia was an important Continental power long before 1871…..
How many Germans in 1945 actually had memories of pre-1871 Germany?
Germany’s actions in the East in 1914-18 and 1939-45 have deep roots in German history.Cf the Drang nach Osten, the drive towards the East that has characterized Germany since the Middle Ages.
Aliens has a definite ’80s aesthetic. The men’s suits have permanently flipped-up neck lapels, Carter Burke’s hair is styled in a quasi-pompadour, etc
From Wikipedia:
"Balance of Terror", written by Paul Schneider and directed by Vincent McEveety, is the fourteenth episode of the first-season of the original science fiction television series Star Trek that first aired on December 15, 1966. It was repeated on August 3, 1967. The episode is a science-fiction version of a submarine film; writer Paul Schneider drew on the film The Enemy Below, casting the Enterprise as the American destroyer and the Romulan vessel as the German submarine.[1]Replies: @syonredux
Yeah, the structure of the episode is derived from The Enemy Below*, but many elements seem to be based on the struggle against Japan:
1.The Earth-Romulan war of a century ago (cf how the War in the Pacific ended roughly 20 years prior to the filming of “Balance of Terror”) was characterized by Spock as a savage struggle, with no captives being taken. That sounds a lot more like the American experience in the Pacific than the War in Europe.
2. Note how the episode begins with a sneak attack (cf Pearl Harbor)
3.Note how the Romulans have a tradition of honorable suicide. Their ships carry atomic bombs so that they can destroy themselves, and the Romulan Commander chooses death over surrender.That reads more like WW2 Japan than WW2 Germany.
4.Lastly, note the fear that Spock’s Vulcan heritage means that he is a traitor (the Romulans and Vulcans are both off-shoots of the same ancestral stock).Again, this seems to be echoing concerns over Japanese-American loyalty in WW2.
*Although some people have pointed out similarities to another WW2 submarine film, Run Silent,Run Deep, which was set in the Pacific:
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Balance_of_Terror_%28episode%29
Recently saw "The Pacific." That should have been done years ago. We also need to make a remake of God is my co-pilot for a younger generation.Replies: @syonredux
Spielberg has commented that his decision to make The Pacific was influenced by the fact that his father and uncle both fought in the Pacific in WW2:
http://tvnz.co.nz/the-pacific/interview-steven-spielberg-3403539
“…many elements seem to be based on the struggle against Japan…”
Back at the time, watching the original Star Trek, I thought the whole thing echoed the Cold War, with the Klingons as the Soviets and the Romulans as the Chinese (and of course the Federation as the US and allies). It was amazing how little real insight into the Soviets or Chinese we had in the US at the time, they were both mysterious forces, with the Klingon-like Soviet “Bears” a bit more knowable than the inscrutable ChiComs.
Can we start talking about the Ferenghi now?
Interesting because it seems like they were consciously avoiding a mere extrapolation of 1970 into the future. In fact it looks like something from earlier in the 1960s. So kind of dated by the standards of its own time but now harder to pin down just by watching it.
Yeah, the show’s aesthetic has something of a bleeding-edge late ’60s vibe to it
True, but the suits are only briefly on-screen, and much of the rest of the film is dominated by the United States Colonial Marines (and their equipment), whom Cameron explicitly cast in the mold of the Vietnam-era US military aesthetic of the late 1960s/early 1970s.
It’s on Youtube:
Wow!
Wow!Replies: @a Newsreader
I’m 42 minutes into watching this. Can we get this America back?
Step one: shut down the border.
Step two: breed.
Step three: breed again. And again. And again. And again. Fertility of 5.0 per couple should do it.
‘WWI was in many ways more damaging to the German psyche than WWII.’
Wow, it’s hard to be more wrong then that. After WWI they basically got straight back up for round 2 but with added anger/vengence. The ‘damage’ just caused the intensification of certain trends/attitudes. After WWII… all those trends and attitudes that had been brewing (some for many centuries) died permanently, and the tremors might also mark the death stroke for several other western ethnies psyches (maybe even leading to the demise of the ethnies themselves), not just the Germans but especially them.
The Germans thought they had it won and convincingly (Russia crumbled) and then the Western Offensive failed and there was a "sudden" defeat. They had the heart of their industrial region occupied by their traditional hate foe and suffered the Depression subsequently, in which savings of the ordinary people and the properties of the upper classes became worthless overnight.
Now, all of this wasn't purely from the defeat. Much of it had to do with the larger process of industrialization, urbanization, and socialization leading to much social tumult. But the sudden, unexpected defeat magnified the psychological shock.
It is true that the defeat in World War II brought about a total ruin, materially of a much more immense destruction than that after World War I. Indeed a loss doesn't get much worse than millions of your women from age six to sixty being savagely gang-raped repeatedly by barbarous winners. But many Germans knew World War II was a desperate struggle, certainly after 1942 and many probably suspected an imminent defeat, but didn't dare utter words smacking of "Defätismus" out of fear of being accused of "Wehrkraftzersetzung" or undermining war morale and ending up at a concentration camp.
Back at the time, watching the original Star Trek, I thought the whole thing echoed the Cold War, with the Klingons as the Soviets and the Romulans as the Chinese (and of course the Federation as the US and allies). It was amazing how little real insight into the Soviets or Chinese we had in the US at the time, they were both mysterious forces, with the Klingon-like Soviet "Bears" a bit more knowable than the inscrutable ChiComs.Replies: @Twinkie
Klingons always struck me as a Soviet-Japanese hybrid (belligerent expansionary power and Cold War foe and all that honor and blade weaponry obsession). The Romulans did strike me as a ChiCom substitute (with the co-ethnic Vulcans being the “good” Chinese, aka the Nationalists/later Taiwanese) in a Roman disguise.
Can we start talking about the Ferenghi now?
Wow, it's hard to be more wrong then that. After WWI they basically got straight back up for round 2 but with added anger/vengence. The 'damage' just caused the intensification of certain trends/attitudes. After WWII... all those trends and attitudes that had been brewing (some for many centuries) died permanently, and the tremors might also mark the death stroke for several other western ethnies psyches (maybe even leading to the demise of the ethnies themselves), not just the Germans but especially them.Replies: @Twinkie
Note he uses the term “psyche.” You underestimate the massive psychic and economic dislocation Germany suffered after World War I.
The Germans thought they had it won and convincingly (Russia crumbled) and then the Western Offensive failed and there was a “sudden” defeat. They had the heart of their industrial region occupied by their traditional hate foe and suffered the Depression subsequently, in which savings of the ordinary people and the properties of the upper classes became worthless overnight.
Now, all of this wasn’t purely from the defeat. Much of it had to do with the larger process of industrialization, urbanization, and socialization leading to much social tumult. But the sudden, unexpected defeat magnified the psychological shock.
It is true that the defeat in World War II brought about a total ruin, materially of a much more immense destruction than that after World War I. Indeed a loss doesn’t get much worse than millions of your women from age six to sixty being savagely gang-raped repeatedly by barbarous winners. But many Germans knew World War II was a desperate struggle, certainly after 1942 and many probably suspected an imminent defeat, but didn’t dare utter words smacking of “Defätismus” out of fear of being accused of “Wehrkraftzersetzung” or undermining war morale and ending up at a concentration camp.
Yes.
Step one: shut down the border.
Step two: breed.
Step three: breed again. And again. And again. And again. Fertility of 5.0 per couple should do it.
Germany’s actions in the East in 1914-18 and 1939-45 have deep roots in German history.Cf the Drang nach Osten, the drive towards the East that has characterized Germany since the Middle Ages.
The Drang nach Osten was pretty much a matter of peaceful immigration at the invitation of the local lords. Pretty much like the Jewish settlement of Eastern Europe; in fact they were parts of the same process. The end result was a region of heavily German and Jewish cities with a Baltic and Slavic peasantry. The *end* end result was conversion of some peasants into an industrial proletariat, the emigration or mass murder of the Jews, the expulsion of the Germans, and the creation of ethnic states.