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Oak Park, IL, nine miles west of Chicago’s Loop, is one of America’s most famous suburbs.
Ernest Hemingway, who grew up there, called it a place of broad lawns and narrow minds.
Frank Lloyd Wright spent the heart of his career in Oak Park, giving it the world’s leading concentration of classic Prairie Style architecture.
My father’s old neighborhood is visited daily by Wright aficionado tourists from around the world.
Here’s the Moore-Dugal house designed by Wright in a crazed Tudor-Japanese style next door to the plainer house my father lived in from 1917-1929.
In contrast, Oak Park on Austin’s western border, had only 6 homicides during this period.
And yet the most crucial events in Oak Park history — how it survived the Civil Rights era without going down the drain like the adjoining Austin neighborhood — are shrouded due to how illegal (and yet sensible) they were. Even with contemporary search engines, it takes a fair amount of history to get the story. So when a new article on the subject is published, I give it publicity.
The central question in Oak Park history is how exactly did Oak Park stay majority white and affluent — it’s now 64% non-Hispanic white, 5% Asian, 22% black (typically highly respectable — e.g., my secretary when I worked in Chicago lived in Oak Park), and only 7% Hispanic — while neighboring communities, such as Chicago’s Austin neighborhood just to the east turned into post-apocalyptic-looking wastelands? Across the street, Austin is 85% black, 9% Hispanic, 4% white, 0.6% Asian.
From the website of the NPR station in Chicago, WBEZ:
Not in Your Front Yard: Why ‘For Sale’ Signs are Banned in Oak Park
Steven Jackson
March 21, 2016Oak Park insists a decades-old rule to fight blockbusting continues to protect a precious suburban commodity: diversity.
Last year, Elizabeth Brigham and her family were looking for a house in the Chicago area. They wanted to live in a suburb with good schools and an active community. And, it had to be diverse. So they went house-hunting in a place known for diversity: the suburb of Oak Park, just beyond Chicago’s western border on Austin Boulevard.
One thing Oak Park did was turn most of the streets crossing Austin Blvd. into culdesacs to make it less convenient for the new residents of Austin to get into Oak Park.
“As we were driving around, I didn’t pay too much attention to it, but noticed that it was a bit curious or interesting that there weren’t any real estate signs in front of the homes that we were looking at,” says Brigham. “And I just assumed … maybe our real estate agent just had the inside scoop and there wasn’t a sign out quite yet.”
But at house after house, there were no For Sale, For Rent, or Sold signs. And Brigham, who works in marketing and product strategy, thought that was weird. You’d think real estate agents and homeowners would want to advertise in every way possible, right? So why aren’t there any real estate signs in the village of Oak Park?
The answer to this question involves a story about how Oak Park used law and good-old-fashioned peer pressure to fight housing segregation.
Or, to be precise, used subterfuge to violate Thurgood Marshall’s majority opinion in the Supreme Court.
That story — still being played out today — partly explains how Oak Park became the diverse community that Brigham was attracted to in the first place.
This is a rare case of “diverse” being used to mean racially diverse rather than nonwhite.
Back in 1960s and ‘70s, Chicago was going through a period of racial change. For years, African-Americans had been leaving their segregated Chicago neighborhoods and moving to other parts of the city. This shift in neighborhood demographics led to a lot of social unrest — sometimes violent — and a huge, slow-rolling wave of white flight. (This handy little GIF sums it up pretty well.)
The process of racial change was helped along by the real estate practice of blockbusting. If you’re not familiar with this nasty little gerund, it worked like this: Real estate agents would knock on doors and suggest that African Americans were moving in and property values were sure to plummet. They’d hire black actors to walk down the street, or push baby strollers on the sidewalk. And they’d post plenty of real estate signs, so there’d be no mistaking that the neighborhood was about to flip from white to black.
Once the white homeowners were good and scared, the real estate agents bought those houses for a song, and sold them to African-Americans for a profit.
“It was going on a block by block basis, and a lot of fear and a lot of panic was generated,” recalls Roberta Raymond, a sociologist, housing activist, and the founder of the Oak Park Regional Housing Center. She was born and raised in Oak Park, and is often credited with spearheading integration and fair housing in the village.
This strategy reduces the commission per home sale by driving down property values but radically increases the number of sales: not just from white to black, but from initial middle class blacks to lower class blacks a few years later.
“Many families who lived in Oak Park had already moved from the West Side of Chicago,” she says. “And they did not want to see this happen again.”
According to The Oak Park Strategy: Community Control of Racial Change, by sociologist Carole Goodwin, the Chicago neighborhood of Austin provided an uncomfortably close cautionary tale.
In 1960, Austin was about 99 percent white. Over the next several years, African-American families moved in at a rapid rate. By 1970, Austin was approximately 32 percent African American, and white residents were leaving en masse.
Between 1966 and 1973, Goodwin writes, an average of 37 blocks per year flipped from white to black in the neighborhood. Along with racial change came disinvestment and blight; businesses moved out, landlords stopped taking care of their buildings, and community services dwindled.
Instead of opposing African Americans from moving in, or doing nothing as white residents fled for far-flung suburbs, the leaders of Oak Park decided to encourage a diverse community.
In other words, the “black-a-block” racial quota.
In 1968 — the same year Lyndon B. Johnson passed the federal Fair Housing Act — the village passed its own fair-housing ordinance. And unlike other communities with similar laws, Oak Park actually enforced theirs.
It was rare for these kind of laws to be enforced because they were clearly illegal post-1968.
“It was based on the idea that you couldn’t just let all of these forces control the housing market — that you had to intervene,” says Raymond. “We just developed one program after another to educate the Realtors, [and] to say to people, ‘If one black family moved into an apartment building, that doesn’t mean the whole building has to become all black, or that the building should be allowed to deteriorate.’”
Black-a-Block.
Over the course of several years, the Village of Oak Park, along with the Oak Park Regional Housing Center, created a comprehensive fair-housing strategy. They built a web of relationships between community groups, local government, landlords and real estate agents, and law enforcement. They provided housing counseling and encouraged newcomers to spread throughout the village rather than cluster by race. They bought ads in national magazines, and they promoted Oak Park as a well-run, safe, diverse place to live.
The village also prohibited For Sale, For Rent, and Sold signs. The thinking was: No real estate signs, no blockbusting, no resegregation. The ban was added to the village code in 1972.
Raymond says it was a delicate balance: They tried soothing the fears of white homeowners, while also attracting the very minorities that made those homeowners nervous in the first place. “There was a lot of hand-holding. … And we had to prove that whites would move into neighborhoods that were integrated neighborhoods, if they felt — that on a longterm basis — that neighborhood would stay integrated.”
As it turns out, a lot of white people did end up leaving Oak Park — about 10,000 of them during the 1970s — but racial change happened slowly. Instead of resegregation, there was integration.
In 1977, just five years after Oak Park rolled out the ban on real estate signs, a similar sign ban in Willingboro, New Jersey, was challenged and taken all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court, where the justices voted unanimously that such bans violate the First Amendment.
Justice Thurgood Marshall wrote the majority opinion. …
If dissemination of [for sale] information can be restricted, then every locality in the country can suppress any facts that reflect poorly on the locality, so long as a plausible claim can be made that disclosure would cause the recipients of the information to act ‘irrationally’…There is…an alternative to this highly paternalistic approach. That alternative is to assume that this information is not, in itself, harmful, that people will perceive their own best interests if only they are well enough informed, and that the best means to that end is to open the channels of communication, rather than to close them.
Like I’ve been saying, the reason it’s hard to get honest accounts of what Oak Park did to save itself is because it was illegal. But maybe we should alter the laws to legalize Oak Park’s strategy.
In the years to come, sign bans in municipalities all over the country were overturned. But not in Oak Park. The village still wanted to do everything possible to promote integration; they kept the ban in the municipal code, but stopped enforcing it as an actual ordinance, knowing it would be defeated if challenged in court. Instead, the village began treating the sign ban as more a village norm than a law — not technically enforced, but strongly encouraged. …
Today, local real estate agents have a long-standing agreement with Oak Park not to post signs.
“I think many in the Realtor community have come to believe that the lack of signs has not particularly damaged their business,” says Jane McClelland, president of the Oak Park Area Association of Realtors.
My guess is that the Oak Park sign ban discourages homeowners from selling homes without a realtor. My wife sold our Chicago lakefront condo without paying a sell-side realtor a commission and a big part of her marketing strategy was to pay $75 to have a professional sign painted to hang on our busy street. So, while the realtors lose in one way from the sign ban in Oak Park, they gain in another, and thus are more willing to go along with it.
“Especially now, when real estate apps can automatically identify all homes in proximity to wherever you are located.”
McClellan adds that the local board complies with the sign ban because it is still technically a village ordinance.
“I’m sure there are local real estate agents that would disagree and would prefer to post signs, but in general, the Oak Park Area Association of Realtors’ position is that we cannot pick and choose which ordinances with which we wish to comply,” she says.
You don’t actually have to comply with laws shot down by the Supreme Court, but it appears that the Village of Oak Park has, by hook or by crook, cultivated a less rapacious class of local realtors than the slash and burn ones who did so much damage to Chicago following Martin Luther King coming to town in the mid-1960s.
“Personally, it just doesn’t feel right to start dismantling, piece by piece, a human rights program that served our town so well, and helped to make it a desirable destination for many home buyers.”
Cedric Melton, Director of Community Relations for the Village of Oak Park, says the only people who violate the unofficial ban are out-of-town real estate agents and the occasional homeowner selling their own house. That happens a few times a year, and when it does, it’s Melton’s job to call whoever posted the sign and persuade them to take it down.
“I’ll explain to them that the local board does not put up signs because of the historic symbolism, and hopefully they’ll take it down. I let them know that the Supreme Court has ruled that you can put a sign up if you want to, but you will receive many, many calls from residents who will be in opposition to that sign,” says Melton. “And in almost all the cases they say to me ‘Well I’m going to do exactly what your local board is doing, I want to be in lockstep with them. … I’m going to take it down and use alternative methods.’”
It’s hard to find Oak Parkers who are opposed to the sign ban, and even harder to get them to go on the record. But we found one resident who’s not very happy about it, and who was willing to speak on condition of anonymity. (He’s a corporate attorney and he doesn’t want his opinion reflecting on his boss in anyway; plus, he’s active in the Oak Park community and he doesn’t want to be that guy always complaining about the sign thing.)
Let’s call him Max Signage.
A few years ago, Signage moved from one end of town to the other. He wanted to put up a sign, but he knew that would lead to phone calls and complaints from neighbors, and he just didn’t want to deal with the backlash. To Signage, going without a sign felt like a missed opportunity.
“The 1,000 or 2,000 or however many cars that drive by that very busy street in Oak Park every day would be exposed to thinking ‘Oh gosh, there’s a pretty nice house, I didn’t know that was on the market,’” he says. “The more people you have who are potential buyers, the more chance you have of getting a better price for your house.”
In the end, Signage chalks up the sign ban to good intentions and a small town mentality.
“It is an idea that the community is a little bit more than you. And some of that I understand, and some of that, like with the ban, I have problems with,” he says. “It may have been that the sign ban worked back in the ‘60s or ‘70s; I don’t know that it is doing much at this point, other than driving me crazy by having an unconstitutional law on our books.”
If Oak Park hadn’t voted something like 83% for Obama in 2012, it’s likely that the Obama DOJ would have come after Oak Park for trampling on Thurgood Marshall’s legacy so blatantly.
The relevance of the sign ban today is up for debate. Is it an outmoded relic of Oak Park’s diversity strategy? Or is it still a useful tool for maintaining and promoting integration?
One thing is certain: The sign ban is not the cornerstone of Oak Park’s diversity strategy. Rather, it’s one among many measures taken to promote integration, and a public symbol of the village’s decades-long fight for diversity.
That fight that is far from over, because while blockbusting may be a thing of the past, segregation in the suburbs is not.
Consider Oak Park’s neighbors: Maywood is mostly African American. Cicero is mostly Latino. Elmwood Park is mostly white. Some of these places have grown more segregated in the last 20 years. Other suburbs are projected to segregate even more in years to come.
Meanwhile, Oak Park has become more diverse over the last few decades. While other towns’ populations tend to cluster by race, the village is geographically integrated. Demographically, its population mirrors that of the larger region, although Latinos are underrepresented.
Oak Park is also very gay.
Anyway, I think it would be reasonable for people to study Oak Park’s history and look for ways to reform federal laws to make what Oak Park did legal.
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And White Gays are the shock troops of gentrification (i.e., flipping a neighborhood from NAM to Anglo White)…..
Speaking of Gays, have you noticed that Right Wing Homosexuals tend to be almost exclusively White males? I have never heard of cases of Nonwhite Gays or Lesbians regardless of race being Right Wingers.
I bet even Lesbians in MMA and the military vote monolithically for The Democratic Party. Where is the Lesbian or Nonwhite version of Milo Yiannopoulos?Replies: @yaqub the mad scientist, @Lot, @Glaivester, @AP
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/9-people-charged-with-murder-in-fatal-georgia-teen-brawl/177919057
And you can see how well that worked out for Willingboro. In 2012 The racial makeup of the township was 17.31% (5,475) White, 72.74% (23,007) Black or African American, 0.37% (117) Native American, 2.01% (635) Asian, 0.03% (10) Pacific Islander, 3.12% (988) from other races, and 4.42% (1,397) from two or more races. Hispanics or Latinos of any race were 8.65% (2,737) of the population.
Seems like maybe this approach could enlighten HUD’s Section 8 approach. Maybe if there were limits on how many Section 8 vouchers per block, the burden on the neighborhood would be lesser and those using the voucher would have a better chance of integrating?
There is a better scheme available, put Section 8 housing in neighborhood where the most enlightened people live and the more the merrier. Talk to any liberal and he'll tell you that he's one of the most enlightened of human beings so clearly he will be the most inviting, most accommodating and most eager to enjoy the diversity that Section 8 will bring to his immediate environs, after all, liberals love talking about how they love diversity and that society needs more diversity, so once the ice has been broken with the first section 8 housing, it would make sense to add more and more to such neighborhoods while sparing the neighborhoods of neanderthal conservatives who are not so enlightened on the appeal of glorious diversity.
This is what Trump needs to implement. Give liberal congressional districts what they say they want, good and hard.
In theory. But in reality, Section 8 carries a high criminal content, and spreading them out exposes the criminal element to a broader array of victims. Crime goes up.
Seems like maybe you could use some enlightening.
Any number other than zero is too many. They aren't interested in a better chance of integrating because they aren't interested in integrating beyond forcing their physical presence on us.
Any clearer now?Replies: @Section 8 a block
Because the Supreme Court ruled the sign ban violated the Constitution, only a constitutional amendment could change the law, and that would be very hard to do.
The big drawback of the Justices using constitutional interpretation to implement their policy preferences is that it renders the solution of controversies through legislative compromise impossible.
Basically, conservatives need to start thinking outside the box.
Isn’t “shock troops of gentrification” Sailer’s line?
https://www.google.com/search?q=unz+review&oq=unz&aqs=chrome.1.69i60j69i59j69i60l2j0l2.2915j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=gays+shock+troops+of+gentrification
Oak Park must have very small blocks because the 2010 census says its now over a fifth Black:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_Park,_Illinois
which is higher than the cities of Evanston, Des Plaines, and Oak Forest, (Oak Park is classified as a village) which didn’t have a Black-a-Block system
Maybe the Black-a-Block system slowed things down (at the most).
Are there any formerly inner ring suburbs of Chicago that once were upper middle class that became all black
http://www.city-data.com/housing/houses-Oak-Park-Illinois.html
http://www.city-data.com/housing/houses-Evanston-Illinois.html
http://www.city-data.com/housing/houses-Oak-Forest-Illinois.html
http://www.city-data.com/housing/houses-Des-Plaines-Illinois.html
It's not all Frank Lloyd Wright. The point is that the housing stock and location of Oak Park put it in real danger of becoming just an extension of the West Side of Chicago (which is exactly what happened to nearby Maywood). That Oak Park managed to deftly sidestep this and still maintain every appearance of progressivism (very important if you know the type of people who live there) is pretty remarkable. Steve has it exactly right: they snatched up well-socialized middle-class blacks and shut out the lumpens, all in the name of diversity. Nobody cares because Oak Park is where the diversity commissars (black and white) live or would like to live, and they don't want black lumpenproles for neighbors anymore than you do.
Their main restraint is the desirability of the housing and prices have kept the blacks "at bay". I haven't been there some time--a cross country road trip with the kids in 2003, visited my cousin there and my UG girlfriend next door in River Forest. I can testify, both definitely nice "leafy" places.
But a grad-school acquaintance of mine took a job at the Chicago Fed two years back. A few of us had some long discussions of his neighborhood options over email. Oak Park wasn't even on his list. It's expensive and the HS--shared with River Forest--is already 25% black. At that number, even if the black adults are high quality, regression to the mean, a bunch of a*holes messing up your kids' education. Since the HS is shared with the smaller River Forest--much whiter--i thought maybe the elementaries would have even higher percentages ... but checked yesterday and its only marginally so. Seems like most folks as yet aren't packing the kids off to private school. But given demographic trends--the sort of people Oak Park draws--are not the highly fertile white people ... that schools are headed blacker and browner.
My take is there is a flipping point, where the family types think "oh i have to pay for this expensive house *and* private school?", start losing interest and pealing off. You can't sustain the place--or the prices--with yuppies and gays, it's "leafy suburb" not Manhattan. Chicago's amenities while convenient are an L ride, though black Chicago neighborhoods, away. When the prices decline, then the decline really accelerates.Replies: @Hibernian
so, were the oak park residents of that time just smarter than every other neighborhood in the country?
how come nobody else did this?
also, changing federal law sounds hard, wouldn’t it be better to think up ways that we can create/preserve white community that we can get away with as a matter of fact regardless of the law?
so far white people have come up with:
1. have a ton of money and price everyone else out
2.
obviously this strategy has limited applications
I personally think Oak Park is just an anomaly for various reasons. I think similar neighborhoods in Detroit may have turned mostly black and become blighted but not sure. Most similar areas in Chicago that were block busted were full of white ethnic proles I'd have to think.
Cory Booker was on Real Time with Bill Maher last night and this topic came. Maher mentioned that New Jersey had something like the 5th most segregated schools of any state, that the vast majority of black kids attended schools that were >90% NAM, or something like that.
Of course, Booker didn’t attend one of those schools. He went to one of the top public high schools in the state, Norther Valley Regional High at Old Tappan. He said when his parents bought their house in nearby Northvale (in the Northern Valley district), they sent a white couple to buy it for them.
I used to think Cory Booker would have made a better first black president than Obama. He probably would have: less resentful, less likely to stir the pot of racial grievances. But he’s such an anodyne, conventional liberal. He had nothing interesting to say about integration, and on terrorism, Maher mocked him for his unwillingness to say “Islamic extremism”.
Maher is actually insulting blacks and Hispanics when complaining that they have to go to school with each other. Does he have a problem with HBCUs? Over 90 percent of Newark Public Schools is NAMs. Of course they all go to school together.
http://www.nps.k12.nj.us/info/Replies: @Jefferson, @V Vega, @ScarletNumber
Internet says that artists, creative types, gays and hipsters are the “shock troops of gentrification”. Artists are mentioned the most, so pick your poison.
Did he originate it? I’ve seen it used by a lot of writers:
https://www.google.com/search?q=unz+review&oq=unz&aqs=chrome.1.69i60j69i59j69i60l2j0l2.2915j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=gays+shock+troops+of+gentrification
Wright’s singular three-dimensional imagination produced architectural magic like no one else in history. The rarest kind of genius evidently.
“This is a rare case of “diverse” being used to mean racially diverse rather than nonwhite.”
Most of the time “diverse” neighborhood is code word for high crime neighborhood, because 9 times out of 10 they are not talking about a neighborhood where the majority of Nonwhites look like Rupert Murdoch’s ex-wife Wendi Deng and Mr. Miyagi from The Karate Kid.
I guess each gay neutralizes ,say, 90 normal Whites in the eyes of the BolshStat.
22% Black sounds like past the tipping point to me. I wouldn’t consider moving into that town.
OTOH, I think that the quality of life in any neighborhood with any Black occupants depends mostly on how intimidated those Blacks are. It’s the intimidation factor that counts. Whether Blacks are intimidated into civilized behavior — e.g., obeying laws, not playing loud music at all hours, not inviting the relative or boyfriend just out of prison to settle in for an extended stay, keeping the yard neat, etc., — because their small numbers make them fear retribution or because they are scared their new neighborhood will turn into the hell hole they managed to escape does not matter. What is important is that they are intimidated into behaving in a civilized manner.
I have seen first hand three thriving White neighborhoods in New Jersey turned into ghetto hell holes within a year of the first Blacks arriving. The misbehavior started immediately because there were no consequences to be feared. It was the immediate Black misbehavior and its consequences, e.g., the local super market closing as a result of constant vandalism and theft, that turned the neighborhood, not per se the presence of a small influx of Blacks.
Given the proven low average IQ of Blacks, their propensity towards violence, their short time horizons and high internalized discount rates, and their grotesquely inflated sense of amour propre, the only way to keep a significant Black population in line is through various forms of intimidation. Lacking this, social disorder and its consequences are inevitable.
I’ve occasionally scandalized “progressives with the following contrarian argument: Lynching was a highly effective technique at reducing serious Black crime. The Tuskegee Institute constructed a database of lynchings in the US from Reconstruction into the 1950s. There were roughly 5,000 and of these about 3,000 involved Black victims. (It’s often forgotten, but a lot of these were guilty as sin of a capital crime.) So there were on average about 40 lynchings of Blacks per annum in the US. Starting at just about the time lynching was eradicated violent Black crime seems to have begun to increase. It’s not unreasonable to suggest that every lynching of a Black may have (and probably still could) prevent the murder of about 50 to 100 innocent (sort of) Black victims. If Black lives really matter this is a pretty good trade off.
http://www.city-data.com/city/Bowie-Maryland.htmlReplies: @Hibernian
“And White Gays are the shock troops of gentrification (i.e., flipping a neighborhood from NAM to Anglo White)…..”
Speaking of Gays, have you noticed that Right Wing Homosexuals tend to be almost exclusively White males? I have never heard of cases of Nonwhite Gays or Lesbians regardless of race being Right Wingers.
I bet even Lesbians in MMA and the military vote monolithically for The Democratic Party. Where is the Lesbian or Nonwhite version of Milo Yiannopoulos?
Yukio Mishima is the most well known Asian.Replies: @Father O'Hara, @SFG
Right wing American lesbians: Florence King, Eve Tushnet, Camille Paglia is marginally right wing
Minority gay Republicans: Possibly Armstrong Williams and Condi RiceReplies: @Steve Sailer, @Reg Cæsar, @Former Darfur
Speaking of Gays, have you noticed that Right Wing Homosexuals tend to be almost exclusively White males? I have never heard of cases of Nonwhite Gays or Lesbians regardless of race being Right Wingers.
I bet even Lesbians in MMA and the military vote monolithically for The Democratic Party. Where is the Lesbian or Nonwhite version of Milo Yiannopoulos?Replies: @yaqub the mad scientist, @Lot, @Glaivester, @AP
I have never heard of cases of Nonwhite Gays or Lesbians regardless of race being Right Wingers.
Yukio Mishima is the most well known Asian.
Quite a few gay men are attracted to the macho aspects of the military and fascism. (Case example: Death in June!)Replies: @Former Darfur
The school board in Kobe Bryant’s well-to-do hometown of Lower Merion, PA could tell by elementary school demographics that a middle school and one of the two high schools were about to become significantly blacker. In order to avoid lower test scores, officials decided to bus students to make the schools racially balanced. It worked. Test scores at the two high schools were nearly identical.
They got away with by saying they wanted to eliminate the achievement gap.
http://www.saveardmorecoalition.org/node/2749/outraged-over-lower-merion-school-district-decision-bus
http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/ca3/10-3824/103824p-2011-12-14.html
Indeed. And as are the hipsters and art types as someone else mentioned. I’m in NNJ and I’ve never seen gentrification happen faster. People are moving to Harrison, frickin’ Harrison. Not that I mind. I have no interest in being shot, stabbed, sucker punched, etc…And less of a chance of this as well:
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/9-people-charged-with-murder-in-fatal-georgia-teen-brawl/177919057
Blockbusting still happens in NJ. Lakewood is an Orthodox Jewish town with voting blocs big enough so that they, directed by their leaders, can swing close gubernatorial elections whichever way they want. It’s politically untouchable. And recently, after bankrupting the local public schools in favor of their religious ones, Orthodox have been walking into next door town Toms River and blockbusting there using “intense, incessant and intimidating direct solicitations” of real estate. The plan is clearly to scare enough people into moving to produce goy flight. It’s an ugly, ugly situation that’s only going to get worse.
http://www.nj.com/monmouth/index.ssf/2016/02/toms_river_bans_real_estate_solicitation_in_2_area.html
Italians outnumber Orthodox Jews in Toms River by a significant margin.Replies: @jon
The game theorist Thomas Schelling, a professor of mine in college who went on to win the Fake Nobel Prize in Economics, modeled segregation on a checkerboard in the 1960s. Among other things, his model indicated that the initial population didn’t have to be racist in order for massive segregation to occur.
More here:
http://mindyourdecisions.com/blog/2008/10/28/game-theory-and-racism-the-schelling-segregation-model/
Speaking of Gays, have you noticed that Right Wing Homosexuals tend to be almost exclusively White males? I have never heard of cases of Nonwhite Gays or Lesbians regardless of race being Right Wingers.
I bet even Lesbians in MMA and the military vote monolithically for The Democratic Party. Where is the Lesbian or Nonwhite version of Milo Yiannopoulos?Replies: @yaqub the mad scientist, @Lot, @Glaivester, @AP
With a few exceptions, yes.
Right wing American lesbians: Florence King, Eve Tushnet, Camille Paglia is marginally right wing
Minority gay Republicans: Possibly Armstrong Williams and Condi Rice
Silly me.
La Jolla had anti-Jewish covenants in its deeds in many planned neighborhoods, and these continued to be enforced by the local realtor’s association until 1962, when the state warned that if the policy was not ended, it would not go through with the planned building of UC San Diego in La Jolla.
With the university attempting to quickly assemble a top class faculty in the peak era of Ashkenazi intellectual achievement, La Jolla soon because the most Jewish part of San Diego, especially the newer parts of La Jolla closest to it. For example:
Bill Maher went to Pascack Hills High School in NJ which is just a rich and even whiter than Cory Booker’s high school. If Maher wants to know what it is like to attend a black high school, he should ask Howard Stern. He should also talk to Ying Ma who was the deputy communications director for Ben Carson’s presidential campaign. She wrote Chinese Girl in the Ghetto describing her immigration from China to Oakland, CA. Both of them were brutalized in school.
Maher is actually insulting blacks and Hispanics when complaining that they have to go to school with each other. Does he have a problem with HBCUs? Over 90 percent of Newark Public Schools is NAMs. Of course they all go to school together.
http://www.nps.k12.nj.us/info/
Colin Quinn said he went to a predominantly Puerto Rican high school.
I am thinking what kind of Irish Catholic parents send their child to a mostly Boricua school? Unless they saw it as a glass half full type of situation, like hey at least he is going to a school where most students are Catholic.Replies: @Kevin O'Keeffe
I've heard it said that Bill Mahr has a very well known, and long history with hiring high-end black prostitutes almost exclusively. Every analysis of Bill's world view should include this, since it's an alleged predilection he's indulged in with abandon, for a long, long time.Replies: @Triumph104
PHHS 84.5% white 7.7% NAM
OT: Bernie crushed Hillary today in WA and AK.
It’s the reservation effect: most of the whites still registered Dem are leftists. The conservative donks and moderate donks have finally drifted off the rez.
It’s also the low sunlight vitamin D deficiency effect: Northern Euros love them some socialism.
It's the reservation effect: most of the whites still registered Dem are leftists. The conservative donks and moderate donks have finally drifted off the rez.
It's also the low sunlight vitamin D deficiency effect: Northern Euros love them some socialism.Replies: @rod1963
Even the Lib whites know that Hillary hates them and will screw them over the first chance she gets. Hillary is so bad she makes a old Marxist hack like Bernie look good.
This is why she lost to Obama to begin with, she is just that unlikable. Even with the MSM pimping her like crazy, they still can’t turn a sow’s ear into a silk purse.
I am Trump2016 all the way but I can see how the young and naive get sucked in by Bernie's presentation. He makes socialism sound like a great idea...... he's had years to perfect this shtick.Replies: @Dave Pinsen
Blacks were ripped off.
Richard Rothstein was interviewed on NPR’s Fresh Air. He explained that ghettos were created by governments on the federal, state, and municipal level. The inability to live wherever they wanted meant that the limited housing available to blacks was expensive, poor quality, crowded, and lacked adequate city services like trash pickup.
http://www.npr.org/2015/05/14/406699264/historian-says-dont-sanitize-how-our-government-created-the-ghettos
Seems like maybe this approach could enlighten HUD’s Section 8 approach. Maybe if there were limits on how many Section 8 vouchers per block, the burden on the neighborhood would be lesser and those using the voucher would have a better chance of integrating?
There is a better scheme available, put Section 8 housing in neighborhood where the most enlightened people live and the more the merrier. Talk to any liberal and he’ll tell you that he’s one of the most enlightened of human beings so clearly he will be the most inviting, most accommodating and most eager to enjoy the diversity that Section 8 will bring to his immediate environs, after all, liberals love talking about how they love diversity and that society needs more diversity, so once the ice has been broken with the first section 8 housing, it would make sense to add more and more to such neighborhoods while sparing the neighborhoods of neanderthal conservatives who are not so enlightened on the appeal of glorious diversity.
This is what Trump needs to implement. Give liberal congressional districts what they say they want, good and hard.
Chicago is a nexus of left-wing terror and corruption. Why would anyone want to live near it?
OT: Hollywood is releasing a movie about (or, rather, based on) Ephraim Diveroli:
War Dogs
I wonder how much of the growth of really white outer Chicagoland suburbs like Naperville (where I used to live; I can attest to its whiteness) was due to “blockbusting”-initiated white flight from areas closer to downtown.
All Right-Thinkers hate hate hate the suburbs.
Some weeks ago, I read an article in The Wall Street Journal about rising rents at suburban strip malls. The reporter - a male with an Asian name, if memory serves - went out of his way to denigrate the suburbs. The gist of the article was, "Strip malls are ugly and un-trendy - anyone with half a brain knows that vibrant cities are the best places to live - but they can be very profitable."
It was almost as if he was afraid that someone would think he was suggesting that suburbs are an acceptable place to live for the Right Kind of People. "I'm not praising suburbs! I'm only saying that the hideously-ugly strip malls blighting the landscape can make money for their owners!"
I'm not wild about McMansions and strip malls myself, but I sure as hell don't buy into the New Urbanism-groupthink mantra that everyone in the world should be crammed into tiny, insanely-expensive apartments in 50-story buildings.Replies: @Clyde
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_Park,_Illinois
which is higher than the cities of Evanston, Des Plaines, and Oak Forest, (Oak Park is classified as a village) which didn't have a Black-a-Block system
Maybe the Black-a-Block system slowed things down (at the most).Replies: @granesperanzablanco, @Steve Sailer, @Peter Meyer, @AnotherDad
Is it possible that Oak Park is just inherently nicer with better housing stock than Austin, Chicago? This desirability might explain the higher quality black residents. Plus it is a seperare town which likely has always meant better services.
Are there any formerly inner ring suburbs of Chicago that once were upper middle class that became all black
how come nobody else did this?
also, changing federal law sounds hard, wouldn't it be better to think up ways that we can create/preserve white community that we can get away with as a matter of fact regardless of the law?
so far white people have come up with:
1. have a ton of money and price everyone else out
2.
obviously this strategy has limited applicationsReplies: @granesperanzablanco
This would actually be a really interesting urban studies project
I personally think Oak Park is just an anomaly for various reasons. I think similar neighborhoods in Detroit may have turned mostly black and become blighted but not sure. Most similar areas in Chicago that were block busted were full of white ethnic proles I’d have to think.
As Fred Trump, Sr. made his fortune in selling real estate housing to middle class whites (and helping to avoid the more extreme abuses that occurred as a result of the ’68 Fair Housing Act, it remains to be seen if his son Donald has learned any of what his father may have taught him when as a younger man he worked with his dad in Queens. Could a Trump presidency quietly disband some of the more extreme abuses of the Obama DOJ’s obsession of disparate impact when it comes to the real estate market?
Regarding disparate impact and its enforcement in US’s neighborhoods, would not be surprised if the Donald’s DOJ went in the opposite direction.
http://www.nj.com/monmouth/index.ssf/2016/02/toms_river_bans_real_estate_solicitation_in_2_area.htmlReplies: @Jefferson, @william munney, @ScarletNumber
“Blockbusting still happens in NJ. Lakewood is an Orthodox Jewish town with voting blocs big enough so that they, directed by their leaders, can swing close gubernatorial elections whichever way they want. It’s politically untouchable. And recently, after bankrupting the local public schools in favor of their religious ones, Orthodox have been walking into next door town Toms River and blockbusting there using “intense, incessant and intimidating direct solicitations” of real estate. The plan is clearly to scare enough people into moving to produce goy flight. It’s an ugly, ugly situation that’s only going to get worse.”
Italians outnumber Orthodox Jews in Toms River by a significant margin.
Maher is actually insulting blacks and Hispanics when complaining that they have to go to school with each other. Does he have a problem with HBCUs? Over 90 percent of Newark Public Schools is NAMs. Of course they all go to school together.
http://www.nps.k12.nj.us/info/Replies: @Jefferson, @V Vega, @ScarletNumber
“Bill Maher went to Pascack Hills High School in NJ which is just a rich and even whiter than Cory Booker’s high school. If Maher wants to know what it is like to attend a black high school, he should ask Howard Stern.”
Colin Quinn said he went to a predominantly Puerto Rican high school.
I am thinking what kind of Irish Catholic parents send their child to a mostly Boricua school? Unless they saw it as a glass half full type of situation, like hey at least he is going to a school where most students are Catholic.
Yukio Mishima is the most well known Asian.Replies: @Father O'Hara, @SFG
Was he really right wing..or just a flipping maniac? Loved his stuff tho.
I saw him for a half hour on TV and Bernie has an avuncular bedside manner. He comes across as believing what he is saying. Then Hillary came on and I switched channels or I would get sick.
I am Trump2016 all the way but I can see how the young and naive get sucked in by Bernie’s presentation. He makes socialism sound like a great idea…… he’s had years to perfect this shtick.
https://twitter.com/davidpilling/status/713996073694597120Replies: @SFG, @Ulysses, @AnotherDad
Steve this is weird.On our 10 o’clock news tonight they reported a pizza delivery guy pulled out of his car by four vibrant teens in Oak Park! He is OK but the search for his car continues. These thing as happen occasionally in OP. I recall a guy getting hit by a hammer once;some sex assaults. I used to work there,didn’t realize why they had those cul de sacs,LOL!
If they voted 83% for Obama, I don’t mind if their town goes ghetto. I’m with TangoMan at #26.
He is also a close friend of Shmuly Boteach. While it would no doubt make Steve’s work easier to have Boteach take a prominent role in a Booker administration, it’s not something I’m looking forward to.
Besides, I'd like to see the 'kosher sex' jokes.
Then again he did advise Michael Jackson. Ugh.
War DogsReplies: @kaganovitch
Ha! Another Boteach connection
Proverbial frogs in the Oak Park saucepan: Does the 1950-2010 color change show a buildup of lethal heat, or will there be a ‘survivable’ simmering equilibrium?
OT: In Hindsight, an ‘American Psycho’ Looks a Lot Like Us or, We Have Met The Enemy And He Is Haven Monahan
Italians outnumber Orthodox Jews in Toms River by a significant margin.Replies: @jon
FTFY – I think the “for now” is his whole point.
They start with this:
Then they add all of this:
Talk about throwing your source under the bus. I’m pretty sure everyone in Oak Park knows exactly who that is.
Random example of the the decline of working class wages:
In the beginning of Taxi Driver, Bickle lists his hours and weekly salary. I adjusted it for inflation, and it is $21/hr, some of it “off the meter.”
Uber drivers make an average of $14 an hour after Uber’s cut, but not including the cost of gas, depreciation of their vehicle, etc.
I assume they not only are taxed on all of it, but have a complicated tax form that includes self employment taxes.
I am Trump2016 all the way but I can see how the young and naive get sucked in by Bernie's presentation. He makes socialism sound like a great idea...... he's had years to perfect this shtick.Replies: @Dave Pinsen
A “dummy’s guide” to the election (let’s see if Unz has reenabled paste & match style)
I'd counter with a simpler chart:
"Do you want America to be a nation"
"Yes" --> Trump
"No" --> someone elseReplies: @Dave Pinsen
I don’t know how close they really are. I suspect they’re more useful to each other as props.
Maher is actually insulting blacks and Hispanics when complaining that they have to go to school with each other. Does he have a problem with HBCUs? Over 90 percent of Newark Public Schools is NAMs. Of course they all go to school together.
http://www.nps.k12.nj.us/info/Replies: @Jefferson, @V Vega, @ScarletNumber
Maher is actually insulting blacks and Hispanics when complaining that they have to go to school with each other. Does he have a problem with HBCUs? Over 90 percent of Newark Public Schools is NAMs. Of course they all go to school together.
I’ve heard it said that Bill Mahr has a very well known, and long history with hiring high-end black prostitutes almost exclusively. Every analysis of Bill’s world view should include this, since it’s an alleged predilection he’s indulged in with abandon, for a long, long time.
Maher has an overall contempt for human beings. He would never have a normal relationship with a woman. He thinks dogs should be considered the same as mentally retarded children.Replies: @ScarletNumber
Willingboro should have had 25 Frank Lloyd Wright buildings. Then it would have been A-OK.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_Park,_Illinois
which is higher than the cities of Evanston, Des Plaines, and Oak Forest, (Oak Park is classified as a village) which didn't have a Black-a-Block system
Maybe the Black-a-Block system slowed things down (at the most).Replies: @granesperanzablanco, @Steve Sailer, @Peter Meyer, @AnotherDad
Oak Park is 64% white, Austin across the street is 4% white.
Topographically, they are identical: the Prairie School of Oak Park means flat.
Obviously, Oak Park has a world famous housing stock with it 25 Frank Lloyd Wright buildings, which probably played a role in persuading the authorities to allow Oak Park to do what it takes to hold back the tide of slumification. Having a bunch of poor blacks take over the world’s biggest concentration of buildings by America’s most famous architect would have been Taliban/ISIS level desecration. So, it didn’t happen. And I think we should study how this sacrilege was averted.
When I moved to Chicago in 1982, my dad wanted to see his old house in Oak Park. I had just read Theodore H. White’s autobiography, which ends with a depressing visit to his old house in the Boston area in what’s now a black slum. As we drove through the slums of Chicago’s West Side, I kept trying to lower my father’s expectations … until we crossed the border into Oak Park and then arrived at Superior St., where dozens of European tourists were wearing headsets were taking architectural walking tours of his old neighborhood.
But Austin’s architectural stock wasn’t at all bad:
http://www.chicagodetours.com/schocking-austin-neighborhood-architecture/
My point is that the ploys that Oak Park pulled to avoid Austin’s fate deserve careful study, but it never seems to come up because they were illegal but also effective. Maybe it would make sense to adjust the laws to allow everybody to enjoy what Oak Park enjoyed?
Just looking at Google images Austin's looks to have inferior housing stock but maybe that is selective because of the current state
Right wing American lesbians: Florence King, Eve Tushnet, Camille Paglia is marginally right wing
Minority gay Republicans: Possibly Armstrong Williams and Condi RiceReplies: @Steve Sailer, @Reg Cæsar, @Former Darfur
Back in the 1990s, I read an interview in the The Atlantic with the gay guy who wrote the libretto for the new opera “The Ghosts of Versailles” composed by John Corigliano. He was much more eloquent, but his political stance boiled down to: Of course I’m conservative, I’m a gay guy who writes opera libretti.
Richard Rothstein was interviewed on NPR's Fresh Air. He explained that ghettos were created by governments on the federal, state, and municipal level. The inability to live wherever they wanted meant that the limited housing available to blacks was expensive, poor quality, crowded, and lacked adequate city services like trash pickup.
http://www.npr.org/2015/05/14/406699264/historian-says-dont-sanitize-how-our-government-created-the-ghettosReplies: @Keypusher
Know how I know Richard Rothstein is an effing idiot?
“If Oak Park hadn’t voted something like 83% for Obama in 2012, it’s likely that the Obama DOJ would have come after Oak Park for trampling on Thurgood Marshall’s legacy so blatantly.”
I don’t know, Obama has a record of throwing people, groups under the bus if its convenient to do so, regardless of how much they supported him.
“Oak Park is also very gay.”
Sure, crime rates are still low compared to having large groups of blacks, but gay flamboyance, and gays around peoples’ children, etc all make it at best a “lesser of two evils” for the Oak Park inhabitants.
An alternative theory is that Oak Park being more expensive even in bad times meant that you could not buy a home there with federally subsidized mortgages. I suspect that blacks that used these subsidized mortgages ended up losing their money unless they hung out to the late 1990s.
The quality of the homes also meant that renting them as flop houses did not make economic sense.
Oak Park was probably and purposely under served by mass transportation making it harder for less wealthy to live there.
I suspect that blacks themselves were unwilling to pay top dollar for a house next to other black people, so what looks like a conspiracy of Realtors ended up being how buyers sorted themselves out. The trick was to convince other whites to move next to blacks, but the civil rights movement did most of the heavy lifting in that regard. Remember the white buyers were wealthier and more educated so they would have been more impressed by their black neighbors wealth and achievements.
Austen on the other hand filled up quickly with black owners that could not afford to live there, and houses converted into rentals. The rent being subsidized by the government.
Oak Park has excellent pubic transportation to downtown with two El lines (Green and Blue) and the Metra commuter train.
Another article on Chicago real estate and race. It seems a problem is that blacks buy into mixed areas and the whites eventually move out and prices fall dramatically, leaving blacks with underwater houses.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-suburban-housing-slump-0327-biz-20160324-story.html
Any where they move into in appreciable numbers people will flee. They're in many ways always running in place.Replies: @newrouter, @Lot
http://www.nj.com/monmouth/index.ssf/2016/02/toms_river_bans_real_estate_solicitation_in_2_area.htmlReplies: @Jefferson, @william munney, @ScarletNumber
An acquaintance said his door was knocked on randomly by an orthodox gentleman who offered to buy his home. He replied that it was not for sale. The gentleman explained that he was offering the Brooklyn price that day, in cash, and he should take it because someone would. If not, he would later be forced to sell for the Lakewood price. He asked, ” you don’t want to live by us, do you?” He asked him to leave. A neighbor sold her home. Within months everyone else did, at the Lakewood price, including my acquaintance. The first home became an orthodox day care and traffic in the cul de sac was unbearable. The dominos fell.
The first group of black homeowners in Willingboro were very respectable and proud of their new homes. Married couples with middle class jobs. Their grandchildren and great grandchildren don’t share their sentiments and want to live on a rap video set. Willingboro now has urban crime problems in what should be a stereotypical suburban setting.
The big drawback of the Justices using constitutional interpretation to implement their policy preferences is that it renders the solution of controversies through legislative compromise impossible.Replies: @Glaivester, @Marty T
No, Congress just has to pass a law stripping the federal courts of jurisdiction. And then, if a federal court takes the case anyway, impeaches the judges.
Speaking of Gays, have you noticed that Right Wing Homosexuals tend to be almost exclusively White males? I have never heard of cases of Nonwhite Gays or Lesbians regardless of race being Right Wingers.
I bet even Lesbians in MMA and the military vote monolithically for The Democratic Party. Where is the Lesbian or Nonwhite version of Milo Yiannopoulos?Replies: @yaqub the mad scientist, @Lot, @Glaivester, @AP
Tammy Bruce is lesbian, and fairly right-wing.
I understand that Secction 8 is being built in Winnetka.
Interesting…
Funny how they mention some of the neighboring towns but not River Forest. As I mentioned before, River Forest is a very wealthy and nondiverse place. But the reason it did not diversify in the 60s and 70s is that it was the home of Tony Accardo and other top members of the Chicago Outfit. If you sold to a black in River Forest as a real estate agent you would get your business burned down, at a minimum.
Elmwood Park, Cicero and Melrose Park also had a lot of Outfit foot soldiers.
Oak Park residents tend to be WASP high church types. It was dry, so the Irish all lived in Forest Park. My Kerryman father lived in a boarding house in Forest Park between arriving and getting married.
Look up Oak Park achievement gap. They refuse to get it. Staggering amounts of money spent, no results.
Someone at National Review recounted the tale of an American rightist telling his British counterparts that he thought gays were part of the general leftist Communist plot. One of the Brits was stunned– all the queens he knew were “high Tories”!
That kind of makes sense, once you subtract recent identitarianism and the American obsession with “rights”. Discretion was once a gay specialty.
When Dolce and Gabbana smacked down Elton John for his “synthetic” family formation, a lot of us reactionaries cheered them as kinsmen in spirit. I wanted to accost the nearest “straight but not narrow” pseudoliberal and yell, how come these Dago homos can get it and you can’t?
A lot of the older European cultures had roles for gay people that evolved over the years. Some percentage of the population is always going to be gay: they talk about it in ancient Greece, and there are references to it in ancient China. The USA, being new and having to fill up the continent with people, didn't have time or the inclination at first.
But then again maybe not. How many of the (early) Nazi leadership had a preference for the same sex? The Japanese ultranationalist Mishima wrote openly about it. I think the gay-left association really only came into being when "gay" began to refer to a whole identity, not just an isolated behavior.Replies: @Eric Rasmusen
Right wing American lesbians: Florence King, Eve Tushnet, Camille Paglia is marginally right wing
Minority gay Republicans: Possibly Armstrong Williams and Condi RiceReplies: @Steve Sailer, @Reg Cæsar, @Former Darfur
The late Miss King swung both ways. She described her deflowering by an unwell-hung fellow as being “punched in the twat”. She also praised an old Jewish editor who would offer her a “sammich” when she was upset for his masterful understanding of women’s psychology; even many full-time straight women would be slow to appreciate that.
She said that whichever sex she went to bed with, she would never be caught dead smoking on the street. She was brought up too well.
Also, like Pat Buchanan, she grew up in DC, which only reinforced her reactionary view. Unlike Pat, she even questioned women’s suffrage in print. And that was before women had leapfrogged men to the left, and were more skeptical of “new ideas”, as she was.
A good friend of mine and his wife moved to Oak Park 22 years ago. At the time, I would have called them mildly liberal in their outlook. After 20+ years in Oak Park they have become total Social Justice Warriors. Their greatest joy in life seems to be calling other people “racist, sexist, or homophobic.” Their Facebook posts are just so completely sanctimonious and full of contempt for any person who isn’t 100% onboard the “progressive” agenda. Oak Park seems to be a cocoon of left-wing lunacy, so they have no idea how bizarre they sound to someone who doesn’t live in their “community.”
You hate to lose a friend of over 40 years, but good grief, there is only so many times you can be lectured to about how great Barack Obama, gays, blacks, immigrants, etc. are.
You’ve mentioned this neighborhood several times, and though I’m not from Chicago, I don’t really understand your fascination with it. In my experience, all big cities have neighborhoods like this. For example, Kansas City has an older neighborhood to the northeast of downtown, of Victorian houses. It is a drug-ridden ghetto. It also has a slightly less old neighborhood (Ward Parkway) which is pretty much like your Oak Park neighborhood-stayed white, stayed valuable.
The difference between the two appears to be that Ward Parkway houses have big lawns and are very expensive (and the Victorian neighborhood is probably 1-4 generations older).
In other words: expensive neighborhoods with big lawns stay white. Perhaps big lawns = expensive = not being overrun by poor people. Big houses on small lawns (dense housing), 50 years older than that, are condominiumized, and don’t (and Victorian era houses were often boarding houses anyway).
Not being a city planner or student of city planning, I of course don’t know what I’m talking about. But my initial, visceral reaction is this.
joeyjoejoe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_Club_DistrictSure, when you get to the estates where a city's actual rich people live, the housing stock is just too expensive for blacks to take over--and TPTB would not permit it anyway.Oak Park simply isn't in that space. It's not the country club district--there isn't a golf course in the entire place. (The closest golf is a Chicago public course next door in Austin!) It's a nice leafy inner-ring suburb with the high inner-ring suburb density (11,000/sqmi). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_Park,_Illinois
Better housing stock than Austin next door, but nothing blacks couldn't colonize if allowed to. In contrast--Wikipedia doesn't have census breadouts for any of the Country Club District neighborhoods, but Mission Hills is right across the state line--Mission Hills has a fraction of Oak Park's density at 1700/sqmi. Different beasts. And the point is the Oak Park white folks managed to--were allowed to-- stop the black tide of destruction at their neighborhood boundary ... and hold it back. And were allowed to skate by using "extra-legal" means, while many other very nice white neighborhoods all over the country were destroyed. ~~~Steve blogs on this because it's both familiar to him and the story of our world today.The grand organizing moral principal of our age is that white people--specifically white gentiles--are not allowed to have their own things. Not their own neighborhoods, not their own nations. Blacks can have their own things, Jews can have their own things, Muslims can have their own things, homosexuals their own things, women their own things. But white gentile men--whatever nice things they produce (wealth, neighborhoods, nations)--those *must be shared*. But some white people--the right sort of white people--get to have nice things. Steve likes to shine a light at these cases and see "what's up" and why they get to (protect themselves and) have nice things and most of us don't.Some examples:
-- Oak Park vs. Austin. Different rules.
-- Ferguson. The NYT editors made this the most important place in the nation for a summer, demanding essentially that routine law enforcement there be shut down so the place would be a safe-space for Michael Brown thugs, *while* enjoying NYC's lower crime rate enforced by a constitutionally dubious "stop and frisk" policy targeting young NAM men. Different rules.
-- Diversity. Diversity is the best thing in the world for you--it makes us stronger. Obama is pushing section 8 housing into the suburbs for "fairness" and to increase "diversity". Bernie Sanders, Democrat, advocate for diversity, left New York to build a career in ... Vermont! --1% black ( less when he went there.) Hillary Clinton, super-champion and cheerleader for diversity with a choice of anywhere in America to live upon leaving the White House chose Chappaqua NY, <1% black. Different rules.
-- Country clubs. The NYT conducted a long, long tirade against Augusta's all male policy. But Bloomberg gets to go to an *all white!* country club ... because it's an all-Jewish country club. (Yeah, he has to "quit" his membership while mayor then rejoin after.) No campaign about this blatantly racist club right there in NYC. Different rules.
-- Border fences. Israel gets to have a nice solid--prison wall style--border fence and to toss out very poor Ethiopian Jews. Border fences in Europe or the US are racist as is any thought about not taking these poor pitiful middle eastern refugees. (Who look to be about 10x better off than the Ethiopian Jews.) Different rules.Replies: @Hibernian
“Maybe if there were limits on how many Section 8 vouchers per block, the burden on the neighborhood would be lesser…”
In theory. But in reality, Section 8 carries a high criminal content, and spreading them out exposes the criminal element to a broader array of victims. Crime goes up.
This Brigham person in the story was seeking “diversity”. Is she black? If so then read that as another higher income black trying to get away from the other lesser blacks.
Sounds good, actually too good to be true. Any proof of this? I’m calling BS on this colorful and convenient urban-legend type story.
The article is pretty much is an admission that blacks are toxic in any numbers and that they have to be watered down to be palatable. Also, it pretty much reiterates the very old concept of dividing blacks into two groups, the ‘good’ ones and the ‘bad’ ones. Oak Park has managed to keep this balancing act going on for so long so that’s good for them but can it be replicated elsewhere? Also, over 20% black seems rather high. Usually anyplace that goes over 7% black starts tipping over, slowly at first but then quickly towards the end.
Yukio Mishima is the most well known Asian.Replies: @Father O'Hara, @SFG
Yeah, but he wasn’t a minority–he was a Japanese guy in Japan.
Quite a few gay men are attracted to the macho aspects of the military and fascism. (Case example: Death in June!)
That kind of makes sense, once you subtract recent identitarianism and the American obsession with "rights". Discretion was once a gay specialty.
When Dolce and Gabbana smacked down Elton John for his "synthetic" family formation, a lot of us reactionaries cheered them as kinsmen in spirit. I wanted to accost the nearest "straight but not narrow" pseudoliberal and yell, how come these Dago homos can get it and you can't?Replies: @SFG, @Peter Meyer, @Rob McX
Different cultures, different gay people.
A lot of the older European cultures had roles for gay people that evolved over the years. Some percentage of the population is always going to be gay: they talk about it in ancient Greece, and there are references to it in ancient China. The USA, being new and having to fill up the continent with people, didn’t have time or the inclination at first.
https://twitter.com/davidpilling/status/713996073694597120Replies: @SFG, @Ulysses, @AnotherDad
Apart from the assumption that being pro-life means women aren’t people, it’s pretty accurate–they’ve got the Trump-Sanders revolt, the relative religiosity difference between Trump and Cruz supporters…good job!
We had the same system in Park Forest, about 30 miles south of Oak Park, back in the 60s. It worked very well, but eventually there was interference from the Feds, and new surrounding suburbs that were very heavily black…..
How could poor blacks ever afford to take over Oak Park? Was it not always middle to upper middle class? Was it much like the wealthier areas of north Chicago that also were never taken over?
Just looking at Google images Austin’s looks to have inferior housing stock but maybe that is selective because of the current state
https://twitter.com/davidpilling/status/713996073694597120Replies: @SFG, @Ulysses, @AnotherDad
Haha, that’s pretty good!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_Park,_Illinois
which is higher than the cities of Evanston, Des Plaines, and Oak Forest, (Oak Park is classified as a village) which didn't have a Black-a-Block system
Maybe the Black-a-Block system slowed things down (at the most).Replies: @granesperanzablanco, @Steve Sailer, @Peter Meyer, @AnotherDad
Oak Park has a lot of smallish houses and apartment buildings: 41% renters vs. 24% in Des Plaines, 20% in Oak Forest and only slightly behind the 42% in Evanston (a college town remember)
http://www.city-data.com/housing/houses-Oak-Park-Illinois.html
http://www.city-data.com/housing/houses-Evanston-Illinois.html
http://www.city-data.com/housing/houses-Oak-Forest-Illinois.html
http://www.city-data.com/housing/houses-Des-Plaines-Illinois.html
It’s not all Frank Lloyd Wright. The point is that the housing stock and location of Oak Park put it in real danger of becoming just an extension of the West Side of Chicago (which is exactly what happened to nearby Maywood). That Oak Park managed to deftly sidestep this and still maintain every appearance of progressivism (very important if you know the type of people who live there) is pretty remarkable. Steve has it exactly right: they snatched up well-socialized middle-class blacks and shut out the lumpens, all in the name of diversity. Nobody cares because Oak Park is where the diversity commissars (black and white) live or would like to live, and they don’t want black lumpenproles for neighbors anymore than you do.
Agreed. There is nothing in the Constitution that gives the SC, or any judge, the power to declare laws unconstitutional; the SC abrogated this power to themselves long ago. In fact, the Constitution gives Congress the authority to regulate the SC, but it has never done so.
That kind of makes sense, once you subtract recent identitarianism and the American obsession with "rights". Discretion was once a gay specialty.
When Dolce and Gabbana smacked down Elton John for his "synthetic" family formation, a lot of us reactionaries cheered them as kinsmen in spirit. I wanted to accost the nearest "straight but not narrow" pseudoliberal and yell, how come these Dago homos can get it and you can't?Replies: @SFG, @Peter Meyer, @Rob McX
In the case of Britain I think a lot of it comes down to the “public” school system and its historical role as an incubator for the ruling class. Growing up in that environment (boys were usually sent away at age 8 remember) same-sex, uh, activity was to a certain degree universal and accepted, certainly moreso than amongst working class boys who had ample access to females. So even amongst the majority of upper-class men who eventually went straight there remained a measure of tolerance for homosexuality, probably moreso than in leftist circles.
But then again maybe not. How many of the (early) Nazi leadership had a preference for the same sex? The Japanese ultranationalist Mishima wrote openly about it. I think the gay-left association really only came into being when “gay” began to refer to a whole identity, not just an isolated behavior.
In Britain, the boarding school theory sounds right, but boarding school doesn't equate to conservative, just to rich. It would be interesting to know how this turned down. I would guess that a lot of the gays became the Tory "wets" middle-class Margaret Thatcher fought.
I was surprised to be told that the high church Church of England pastorate, the people who like "smell and bells" are actually often homosexual and oftener liberal in their theology. It makes sense---- they like to dress up and get the aesthetics right, and they have an excuse for not marrying.Replies: @Reg Cæsar
He’s allowed to reuse it.
https://twitter.com/davidpilling/status/713996073694597120Replies: @SFG, @Ulysses, @AnotherDad
This isn’t bad, though it bakes in the typical left spin that “rich people” and “Mexicans, Muslims and BLM” are exclusive causes. Many folks thinking through it think “rich people” are indeed breaking shit … *by* importing Mexicans, Muslims and encouraging BLM. When it comes to the Dark Lord of our age–Soros–we *know* this is the case.
I’d counter with a simpler chart:
“Do you want America to be a nation”
“Yes” –> Trump
“No” –> someone else
‘Punched in the twat’? I’m guessing she probably tried the wurst but didn’t like it.
The Italians used to fight to keep blacks from moving in…
He was soft on anti-Christianism, as I recall.
Besides, I’d like to see the ‘kosher sex’ jokes.
Then again he did advise Michael Jackson. Ugh.
I've heard it said that Bill Mahr has a very well known, and long history with hiring high-end black prostitutes almost exclusively. Every analysis of Bill's world view should include this, since it's an alleged predilection he's indulged in with abandon, for a long, long time.Replies: @Triumph104
Sounds right. Bill Maher made an appearance in Karrine ‘Superhead’ Steffan’s second book. They ‘dated’ for a few months.
Maher has an overall contempt for human beings. He would never have a normal relationship with a woman. He thinks dogs should be considered the same as mentally retarded children.
Crime in Oak Park is generally a function of distance to Chicago, more specifically, the Austin neighborhood of Chicago which is a high-poverty, high-crime neighborhood. So, it’s not necessarily “vibrants” of the neighborhood, but unwanted infiltrators. No different than any other neighborhood in the U.S. that is affluent and relatively crime free but is next to an area that is poor and crime-infested.
“And yet the most crucial events in Oak Park history — how it survived the Civil Rights era without going down the drain like the adjoining Austin neighborhood — are shrouded due to how illegal (and yet sensible) they were.”
Imagine that, middle class whites, blacks, Hispanics, and Asians living together in relative harmony. Social conditions rendered Oak Park a success in integration despite efforts to make it super-majority white. I’m sure those whites who sold their homes to non-whites didn’t care about the repercussions, they were just happy to get their price and move. As it should be.
“it’s now 64% non-Hispanic white, 5% Asian, 22% black (**typically highly respectable — e.g., my secretary when I worked in Chicago lived in Oak Park**), and only 7% Hispanic.”
So, 36% of this population is affluent across the board. Which meant those whites who sold their homes to nonwhites would be considered by some on this fine blog as being “anti-white”.
**No, not typically. Just respectable, like their non-black neighbors. You really should put that qualifier for all races and ethnic groups to be accurate: “it’s not 64% non-Hispanic white, 5% Asian, 22% black, and only 7% Hispanic–typically highly respectable”.
“The answer to this question involves a story about how Oak Park used law and good-old-fashioned peer pressure to fight housing segregation.”
Peer pressure, huh. Would that involve shaming?
“‘If one black family moved into an apartment building, that doesn’t mean the whole building has to become all black, or that the building should be allowed to deteriorate.’”
In other words, the owner of the apartment building willingly chose to rent to people he/she desired, which could include non-whites. Now, considering Oak Park is 36& non-white, the neighborhood hasn’t “deteriorated” to the point that whites are choosing not to move in.
It’s socio-economic standing in other words. Fairly well-to-do people—white, black, Hispanic, Asian—share the same attitude toward individuals who are not part of their income bracket. It has little to do with racial attitudes. Middle-class whites do not want lower class whites to move into a neighborhood and ruin it; middle-class blacks, Asians, and Hispanics feel the same way.
“But maybe we should alter the laws to legalize Oak Park’s strategy.”
The issue was the hard ban in Willingboro, which the justices correctly noted is overt discrimination. What Oak Park did was more “genteel”…strongly shame, I mean encourage, white homeowners to sell to their fellow whites and be “wary” of non-whites. The law is on the books, but it is “enforced” by the citizens themselves, not directly by officials. Through backchannels, residents there feel the heat, pressured to the point they caved in by selling to only whites, while others made their own personal decisions and sold to non-whites. But there were’t lawsuits because everyone there “played ball”. All it would take is some “uppity” white, probably a liberal, to cry foul and sue in federal court. Then the good times would come to a screeching halt.
I admit the discouragement of posting signs indicating one’s home is an ingenious and legal way to discourage integration. In this particular community, over several decades, it worked–it slowed down integration. This strategy, however, may not have the type of “success” in other areas, especially if people prefer to have signs up and realtors make available their homes to all people regardless of race or ethnicity.
“A few years ago, Signage moved from one end of town to the other. He wanted to put up a sign, but he knew that would lead to phone calls and complaints from neighbors, and he just didn’t want to deal with the backlash. To Signage, going without a sign felt like a missed opportunity.”
Interesting how Max Signage was shamed into an action he deemed objectionable. Is it not his property, his own, his own free association, to put a “For Sale” sign and choose for himself who he wants to purchase his home, regardless of the law?
“Having a bunch of poor blacks take over the world’s biggest concentration of buildings by America’s most famous architect would have been Taliban/ISIS level desecration. So, it didn’t happen. And I think we should study how this sacrilege was averted.”
[Laughs] as if poor whites would have been less likely to make an area a wasteland.
“Maybe it would make sense to adjust the laws to allow everybody to enjoy what Oak Park enjoyed?”
Why don’t you make this a crusade.
Lower class White males still commit less crime than more financially well off Black males.
http://www.amren.com/news/2016/03/poor-white-kids-are-less-likely-to-go-to-prison-than-rich-black-kids/
That would explain why predominantly Black PG County, Maryland for example has a lot more crime than West Virginia, even though the former has a higher median household income than the latter.
Even higher income African American communitues can not escape ratchet ghetto hood culture.Replies: @Corvinus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_Park,_Illinois
which is higher than the cities of Evanston, Des Plaines, and Oak Forest, (Oak Park is classified as a village) which didn't have a Black-a-Block system
Maybe the Black-a-Block system slowed things down (at the most).Replies: @granesperanzablanco, @Steve Sailer, @Peter Meyer, @AnotherDad
I’m with anony-mouse, i think Oak Park is on the timer.
Their main restraint is the desirability of the housing and prices have kept the blacks “at bay”. I haven’t been there some time–a cross country road trip with the kids in 2003, visited my cousin there and my UG girlfriend next door in River Forest. I can testify, both definitely nice “leafy” places.
But a grad-school acquaintance of mine took a job at the Chicago Fed two years back. A few of us had some long discussions of his neighborhood options over email. Oak Park wasn’t even on his list. It’s expensive and the HS–shared with River Forest–is already 25% black. At that number, even if the black adults are high quality, regression to the mean, a bunch of a*holes messing up your kids’ education. Since the HS is shared with the smaller River Forest–much whiter–i thought maybe the elementaries would have even higher percentages … but checked yesterday and its only marginally so. Seems like most folks as yet aren’t packing the kids off to private school. But given demographic trends–the sort of people Oak Park draws–are not the highly fertile white people … that schools are headed blacker and browner.
My take is there is a flipping point, where the family types think “oh i have to pay for this expensive house *and* private school?”, start losing interest and pealing off. You can’t sustain the place–or the prices–with yuppies and gays, it’s “leafy suburb” not Manhattan. Chicago’s amenities while convenient are an L ride, though black Chicago neighborhoods, away. When the prices decline, then the decline really accelerates.
My Uncle & his family have lived in Oak Park for several years. I imagine the main trend in the West (and the world over) is that property prices are rising in all city-centres (asset inflation etc).
So gigification is beginning to be more of an issue than segregation; colour, caste & creed always take a nod to the ultimate delineator that is class..
I don’t think it’s possible to flip a neighborhood unless the whites have a good reason to take the cash. I suspect a lot of flipped neighborhoods in big cities used be filled semi-decent (but not great) homes of working-class whites who had grown older and were nearing retirement, and their houses had aged to the point where they needed significant doses of money for upkeep, having reached that 25-50 year mark where they could use serious renovation. The whites just decided they’d rather sell the houses for a price that would be higher than what they paid for it, move, and invest the money in their retirement than their house.
“Seems like maybe this approach could enlighten HUD’s Section 8 approach. Maybe if there were limits on how many Section 8 vouchers per block, the burden on the neighborhood would be lesser and those using the voucher would have a better chance of integrating?”
Seems like maybe you could use some enlightening.
Any number other than zero is too many. They aren’t interested in a better chance of integrating because they aren’t interested in integrating beyond forcing their physical presence on us.
Any clearer now?
Common sense is so expensive these days and roots have eternal value. You do your dad proud Steve, and he sees you. Happy Easter.
Speaking of roots, when I was a lad you could pick up hookers in Old Town Alexandria on a weeknight. And now, I’m the only one who knows where to find them.
Just kidding. But seriously, the gentrifying of Old Town into the catchiest bit of metro DC I would say demonstrates how smoothly that can occur when the project housing is small, literally, little brick cubes that don’t look that bad as everything else becomes something else, til, they, too, are something else, and now mostly are.
As for the future, I got vision and everyone else is jogging. Heading south directly next to Old Town proper is a country club. Then, forget Mclean, we know we’re not even aloud to talk about who lives in the neighborhood next to the country club. Then there’s a high-school for 2,400 students and growing.
Back, say, when those hookers could be got, that high school was over 80 percent white. Now that high-school is less than 40 percent white, and 40 percent of the students are on welfare. Before you know it, that school will be 20 percent white, like the next one over has become. And it seems there would be a precipitous drop to shy of zero from there; I mean the only institution in America I can think of that remains 20 percent white is state prison. But these white parents don’t have to send their kids to prison I mean public school. Which reminds me of a story lets call it an allegory…
Quite as soon as a new king was crowned the school’s principle became a stern looking black man, because all the better for it to be a black man to impose a new order, a novel policy that kept the then mostly-white kids inside studying all day with no chance of them ever escaping I mean skipping class, because it was a new day and that became unspeakable to the kingdom.
To an entryway ever door was slammed shut by the bell lock stock and blocked, and the students were literally all locked in. Arose then a clever revolt, and too many T shirts were printed, and the uprisers wore We Po Prisoners day after day. And the press felt so bad for the po’ prisoners that the principle overturned his edict and the po’ kids were unlocked and aloud to walk along the sidewalk once again, like fresh-air animals about to escape. But that’s how much the kingdom wanted to be saved once upon a time.
I got vision and everyone will want a wall. When neighborhoods don’t know their own walkers, well, ya got hookers.
It is amazing that in a country that is 63 percent White, you can find many public schools that are less than 1 percent White.
If this was a 63 percent Negro nation, would public schools that are less than 1 percent Black even exist?
Even at only 13 percent of the population, you still don't have that many public schools in this country that are less than 1 percent Black.
The quality of the homes also meant that renting them as flop houses did not make economic sense.
Oak Park was probably and purposely under served by mass transportation making it harder for less wealthy to live there.
I suspect that blacks themselves were unwilling to pay top dollar for a house next to other black people, so what looks like a conspiracy of Realtors ended up being how buyers sorted themselves out. The trick was to convince other whites to move next to blacks, but the civil rights movement did most of the heavy lifting in that regard. Remember the white buyers were wealthier and more educated so they would have been more impressed by their black neighbors wealth and achievements.
Austen on the other hand filled up quickly with black owners that could not afford to live there, and houses converted into rentals. The rent being subsidized by the government.Replies: @Flip, @Hibernian
“Oak Park was probably and purposely under served by mass transportation making it harder for less wealthy to live there.”
Oak Park has excellent pubic transportation to downtown with two El lines (Green and Blue) and the Metra commuter train.
I get the sense that gays being the shock troops is more common in, say, hollowed out downtown districts of large cities, which are located next to many amenities and have enormous untapped potential. But for somewhat less urbanized areas, it’s some combination of artists and college students attracted to the low rents turning the neighborhood ‘gay friendly’ over time.
Seems like maybe you could use some enlightening.
Any number other than zero is too many. They aren't interested in a better chance of integrating because they aren't interested in integrating beyond forcing their physical presence on us.
Any clearer now?Replies: @Section 8 a block
Kylie, how is that position working out for you? It would be much more politically feasible to tweak Section 8 than it would be to end it. In my experience, otherwise dcent affordable housing in suburbs gets ruined when too many units go Section 8. You get a crowd hanging outside at all hours, noise, vandalism and a certain brazenness that only comes from a certain numerical level. If vouchers were more diffuse and easier to lose (like a neighborhood being given protest rights) the impact might not be as bad. Go ahead and tilt at windmills though. I am sure you will get it repealed, right after Obamacare.
That kind of makes sense, once you subtract recent identitarianism and the American obsession with "rights". Discretion was once a gay specialty.
When Dolce and Gabbana smacked down Elton John for his "synthetic" family formation, a lot of us reactionaries cheered them as kinsmen in spirit. I wanted to accost the nearest "straight but not narrow" pseudoliberal and yell, how come these Dago homos can get it and you can't?Replies: @SFG, @Peter Meyer, @Rob McX
Paul Johnson once wrote that homosexuality was unknown among the English working classes, at least until it was introduced by middle-class left-wingers trying to subvert them. The New Statesman magazine repeated this in their next issue as an example of right-wing insanity.
Imagine that, middle class whites, blacks, Hispanics, and Asians living together in relative harmony. Social conditions rendered Oak Park a success in integration despite efforts to make it super-majority white. I'm sure those whites who sold their homes to non-whites didn't care about the repercussions, they were just happy to get their price and move. As it should be.
“it’s now 64% non-Hispanic white, 5% Asian, 22% black (**typically highly respectable — e.g., my secretary when I worked in Chicago lived in Oak Park**), and only 7% Hispanic.”
So, 36% of this population is affluent across the board. Which meant those whites who sold their homes to nonwhites would be considered by some on this fine blog as being “anti-white”.
**No, not typically. Just respectable, like their non-black neighbors. You really should put that qualifier for all races and ethnic groups to be accurate: "it's not 64% non-Hispanic white, 5% Asian, 22% black, and only 7% Hispanic--typically highly respectable".
“The answer to this question involves a story about how Oak Park used law and good-old-fashioned peer pressure to fight housing segregation.”
Peer pressure, huh. Would that involve shaming?
“‘If one black family moved into an apartment building, that doesn’t mean the whole building has to become all black, or that the building should be allowed to deteriorate.’”
In other words, the owner of the apartment building willingly chose to rent to people he/she desired, which could include non-whites. Now, considering Oak Park is 36& non-white, the neighborhood hasn’t “deteriorated” to the point that whites are choosing not to move in.
It’s socio-economic standing in other words. Fairly well-to-do people—white, black, Hispanic, Asian—share the same attitude toward individuals who are not part of their income bracket. It has little to do with racial attitudes. Middle-class whites do not want lower class whites to move into a neighborhood and ruin it; middle-class blacks, Asians, and Hispanics feel the same way.
“But maybe we should alter the laws to legalize Oak Park’s strategy.”
The issue was the hard ban in Willingboro, which the justices correctly noted is overt discrimination. What Oak Park did was more “genteel”…strongly shame, I mean encourage, white homeowners to sell to their fellow whites and be “wary” of non-whites. The law is on the books, but it is “enforced” by the citizens themselves, not directly by officials. Through backchannels, residents there feel the heat, pressured to the point they caved in by selling to only whites, while others made their own personal decisions and sold to non-whites. But there were't lawsuits because everyone there "played ball". All it would take is some "uppity" white, probably a liberal, to cry foul and sue in federal court. Then the good times would come to a screeching halt.
I admit the discouragement of posting signs indicating one’s home is an ingenious and legal way to discourage integration. In this particular community, over several decades, it worked--it slowed down integration. This strategy, however, may not have the type of “success” in other areas, especially if people prefer to have signs up and realtors make available their homes to all people regardless of race or ethnicity.
“A few years ago, Signage moved from one end of town to the other. He wanted to put up a sign, but he knew that would lead to phone calls and complaints from neighbors, and he just didn’t want to deal with the backlash. To Signage, going without a sign felt like a missed opportunity.”
Interesting how Max Signage was shamed into an action he deemed objectionable. Is it not his property, his own, his own free association, to put a “For Sale” sign and choose for himself who he wants to purchase his home, regardless of the law?
“Having a bunch of poor blacks take over the world’s biggest concentration of buildings by America’s most famous architect would have been Taliban/ISIS level desecration. So, it didn’t happen. And I think we should study how this sacrilege was averted.”
[Laughs] as if poor whites would have been less likely to make an area a wasteland.
“Maybe it would make sense to adjust the laws to allow everybody to enjoy what Oak Park enjoyed?”
Why don’t you make this a crusade.Replies: @Jefferson, @Eric Novak
“Middle-class whites do not want lower class whites to move into a neighborhood and ruin it; middle-class blacks, Asians, and Hispanics feel the same way.”
Lower class White males still commit less crime than more financially well off Black males.
http://www.amren.com/news/2016/03/poor-white-kids-are-less-likely-to-go-to-prison-than-rich-black-kids/
That would explain why predominantly Black PG County, Maryland for example has a lot more crime than West Virginia, even though the former has a higher median household income than the latter.
Even higher income African American communitues can not escape ratchet ghetto hood culture.
The data point offered in the story is from 1985! Do you have anything current?
In addition, the researchers duly noted that "It could be that the white participants in the study still had other advantages over their black peers, even if they had been incarcerated. Perhaps they went to better schools, or lived in areas where it was easier to find work. At the same time, another reason for the disparity between black and white wealth could be that employers make negative inferences about black workers' pasts, even those who have never been to prison."
Difficult to see how real estate agents can be stopped from upselling the idea that someone on your block has sold and if you don’t now you’ll be forced to later for a lot less. The real estate agents will make massive profits. I think the lesson of Oak Park is that no publicity is good publicity, Now they will be targeted with a vengeance.
Steve, I don’t think either Oak Park’s experience is replicable or sustainable over the long run. As others noted above, Oak Park is sliding towards ghetto-ization; i.e. the Black underclass and regression towards the mean of Black criminal and social behavior. It does not take just Tookie driving by the neighborhood and shooting some rival gang members to make a place undesirable — it can be nasty loud parties with lots of fights, that makes a place that encourages White flight.
Moreover, Oak Park is so rare because of all the things that have to go right:
1. Real Estate brokers have to be “encouraged” to avoid Block Busting, and that means a lot of high trust and social cohesion in a society with almost none. The men in gold chains for example would happily Block Bust because there is no come-back to them. Smarter Real Estate firms would know this and get while the Blockbusting was good.
2. Homeowners have to “trust” in the method, and how likely is that when neighbors can be Chinese mid-level officials stashing relatives and money abroad, or the new vibrant refugee from Syria or Iraq or Pakistan, or just atomized SWPL folks who live in a mixture of fear and dread?
3. Black officials in various NGOs or HUD have to restrain ambition and Big Man Syndrome and avoid pushing cousin Tookie into Section 8 Housing at places like Oak Park, the better to stick it to Whitey, generate patronage (oh so important) and further their stick-it-to-Whitey career.
4. The Upper Class has to be invested in preserving a unique architectural heritage and neighborhood, and pull all sorts of upper class strings to thwart: ambitious Black/Hispanic people at HUD/NGOS, the men in Gold Chains, and fear-driven homeowners.
There is a reason Oak Park alone is the only place to even temporarily avoid massive White flight; and that as noted above is coming to an end.
IMHO, we will see the switch from home ownership to temporary rentals as Whites become highly mobile, at least SWPL types, and abandon all communal, social, etc. bounds to become the atomized individuals that the Left/Priesthood wants — but that means also the end of White guilt, caring about status mongering/whoring, etc. And that expansion into White Flight being subject to diminishing marginal returns, eventually (you could argue Trump is merely an expression of this though not the man himself) White Identitarian Politics; i.e. “Is it Good For Whites?” and a fairly communal flattening of Whites as a group, elimination of Jewish, Italian, Irish, German, WASP identities into one flat homogenous “White” group intent on carving out maximum spoils for itself in a war of all against all other racial groups.
White flight has its limits. Eventually there is no where to run to and with credit tight for Whites, White fight will eventually turn up.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-suburban-housing-slump-0327-biz-20160324-story.htmlReplies: @Ed
One of the ironies of the post-Civil Rights Era is that the desegregation of schools & the end of redlining have made home equity gains virtually impossible for working class blacks.
Any where they move into in appreciable numbers people will flee. They’re in many ways always running in place.
maybe working class blacks should solve the problems in their own communities instead of out sourcing it to the local, state, fed gov'ts?
“Back, say, when those hookers could be got, that high school was over 80 percent white. Now that high-school is less than 40 percent white, and 40 percent of the students are on welfare. Before you know it, that school will be 20 percent white, like the next one over has become. And it seems there would be a precipitous drop to shy of zero from there;”
It is amazing that in a country that is 63 percent White, you can find many public schools that are less than 1 percent White.
If this was a 63 percent Negro nation, would public schools that are less than 1 percent Black even exist?
Even at only 13 percent of the population, you still don’t have that many public schools in this country that are less than 1 percent Black.
Any where they move into in appreciable numbers people will flee. They're in many ways always running in place.Replies: @newrouter, @Lot
>the end of redlining have made home equity gains virtually impossible for working class blacks. Any where they move into in appreciable numbers people will flee. They’re in many ways always running in place.<
maybe working class blacks should solve the problems in their own communities instead of out sourcing it to the local, state, fed gov'ts?
“Suburbs are full of white bigots who fled the cities because they can’t deal with the wonderfulness of diversity” has been a cornerstone of liberal dogma since at least the ’60s.
All Right-Thinkers hate hate hate the suburbs.
Some weeks ago, I read an article in The Wall Street Journal about rising rents at suburban strip malls. The reporter – a male with an Asian name, if memory serves – went out of his way to denigrate the suburbs. The gist of the article was, “Strip malls are ugly and un-trendy – anyone with half a brain knows that vibrant cities are the best places to live – but they can be very profitable.”
It was almost as if he was afraid that someone would think he was suggesting that suburbs are an acceptable place to live for the Right Kind of People. “I’m not praising suburbs! I’m only saying that the hideously-ugly strip malls blighting the landscape can make money for their owners!”
I’m not wild about McMansions and strip malls myself, but I sure as hell don’t buy into the New Urbanism-groupthink mantra that everyone in the world should be crammed into tiny, insanely-expensive apartments in 50-story buildings.
As opposed to indoor malls. I never go there. They feel creepy (the death of retail!) plus nothing I ever need is in them except for a Radio Shack and that must be gone (bankrupt) now. The indoor mall near me is in business and doing OK but it has nothing I need. The parking lot is full and they have no indoor mall competition to put them out of business.
The quality of the homes also meant that renting them as flop houses did not make economic sense.
Oak Park was probably and purposely under served by mass transportation making it harder for less wealthy to live there.
I suspect that blacks themselves were unwilling to pay top dollar for a house next to other black people, so what looks like a conspiracy of Realtors ended up being how buyers sorted themselves out. The trick was to convince other whites to move next to blacks, but the civil rights movement did most of the heavy lifting in that regard. Remember the white buyers were wealthier and more educated so they would have been more impressed by their black neighbors wealth and achievements.
Austen on the other hand filled up quickly with black owners that could not afford to live there, and houses converted into rentals. The rent being subsidized by the government.Replies: @Flip, @Hibernian
In addition to what Flip said about the mass transit, only a small part of Oak Park consists of large houses on large lots, and there are a lot of apartment buildings in eastern and southern Oak Park.
Quite a few gay men are attracted to the macho aspects of the military and fascism. (Case example: Death in June!)Replies: @Former Darfur
Whenever DIJ or Boyd Rice come to St. Louis, the antifas come out from as far away as Seattle and North Carolina to fuck with them.
Elmwood Park, Cicero and Melrose Park also had a lot of Outfit foot soldiers.
Oak Park residents tend to be WASP high church types. It was dry, so the Irish all lived in Forest Park. My Kerryman father lived in a boarding house in Forest Park between arriving and getting married.
Look up Oak Park achievement gap. They refuse to get it. Staggering amounts of money spent, no results.Replies: @Hibernian
A lot of Irish Catholics lived in Oak Park going back to the 1920s. My Grandfather and Grandmother lived there, in back of a grocery store they owned, right after WW1, before they moved to Chicago. Grandfather had lived on the Near West Side with his brothers and sisters before he and Grandmother were married. Also, although there are few Irish teetotalers, immediate access to retail liquor establishments is not always the prime consideration in deciding where to locate.
Right wing American lesbians: Florence King, Eve Tushnet, Camille Paglia is marginally right wing
Minority gay Republicans: Possibly Armstrong Williams and Condi RiceReplies: @Steve Sailer, @Reg Cæsar, @Former Darfur
I always assumed Condi was doing GWB.
Silly me.
Maher is actually insulting blacks and Hispanics when complaining that they have to go to school with each other. Does he have a problem with HBCUs? Over 90 percent of Newark Public Schools is NAMs. Of course they all go to school together.
http://www.nps.k12.nj.us/info/Replies: @Jefferson, @V Vega, @ScarletNumber
NVHSOT 67.2% white 5.5% NAM
PHHS 84.5% white 7.7% NAM
Maher has an overall contempt for human beings. He would never have a normal relationship with a woman. He thinks dogs should be considered the same as mentally retarded children.Replies: @ScarletNumber
I think he was being kind to the retards. A dog won’t burn your house down.
http://www.nj.com/monmouth/index.ssf/2016/02/toms_river_bans_real_estate_solicitation_in_2_area.htmlReplies: @Jefferson, @william munney, @ScarletNumber
Lakewood is 75% white and 23% NAM. However, Lakewood High School is 93% NAM and 6% white.
“and there are a lot of apartment buildings in eastern and southern Oak Park.”- which are much more expensive than apartments in Austin.
But then again maybe not. How many of the (early) Nazi leadership had a preference for the same sex? The Japanese ultranationalist Mishima wrote openly about it. I think the gay-left association really only came into being when "gay" began to refer to a whole identity, not just an isolated behavior.Replies: @Eric Rasmusen
Remember: the Nazi’s were a socialist nationalist party, so it doesn’t count for conservative gays. Ernst Rohm was leader of the left wing of the party.
In Britain, the boarding school theory sounds right, but boarding school doesn’t equate to conservative, just to rich. It would be interesting to know how this turned down. I would guess that a lot of the gays became the Tory “wets” middle-class Margaret Thatcher fought.
I was surprised to be told that the high church Church of England pastorate, the people who like “smell and bells” are actually often homosexual and oftener liberal in their theology. It makes sense—- they like to dress up and get the aesthetics right, and they have an excuse for not marrying.
I've never come across a better explanation.Replies: @Rob McX
You seem to know more than a fellow should about this…
Speaking of Gays, have you noticed that Right Wing Homosexuals tend to be almost exclusively White males? I have never heard of cases of Nonwhite Gays or Lesbians regardless of race being Right Wingers.
I bet even Lesbians in MMA and the military vote monolithically for The Democratic Party. Where is the Lesbian or Nonwhite version of Milo Yiannopoulos?Replies: @yaqub the mad scientist, @Lot, @Glaivester, @AP
I work with a gay Cuban who votes only Republican.
In Britain, the boarding school theory sounds right, but boarding school doesn't equate to conservative, just to rich. It would be interesting to know how this turned down. I would guess that a lot of the gays became the Tory "wets" middle-class Margaret Thatcher fought.
I was surprised to be told that the high church Church of England pastorate, the people who like "smell and bells" are actually often homosexual and oftener liberal in their theology. It makes sense---- they like to dress up and get the aesthetics right, and they have an excuse for not marrying.Replies: @Reg Cæsar
In British “public schools”, the younger boys serfing for the senior ones were called “fags”. I wonder if that’s the source of the American usage of the word. Eton>Andover>Main Street?
I’ve never come across a better explanation.
I've never come across a better explanation.Replies: @Rob McX
But isn’t fag a contraction of faggot? Those public school dogsbodies were never called faggots.
Of course, but he could add, “as Steve calls it”, or something similar.
I'd counter with a simpler chart:
"Do you want America to be a nation"
"Yes" --> Trump
"No" --> someone elseReplies: @Dave Pinsen
Good point, it doesn’t grok Steve’s high-low versus the middle formulation.
Any where they move into in appreciable numbers people will flee. They're in many ways always running in place.Replies: @newrouter, @Lot
Working class blacks can buy a house that would cost $500,000 to build new, or cost $500,000 in a white area, somewhere like Austin for $50,000. No, they don’t gain any home equity that way, but they still get a windfall worth $450,000.
“There is…an alternative to this highly paternalistic approach. That alternative is to assume that this information is not, in itself, harmful, that people will perceive their own best interests if only they are well enough informed, and that the best means to that end is to open the channels of communication, rather than to close them.” Too bad most of our media outlets take strong exception to this concept. If the information in question might damage their false narrative, they suddenly switch from communication to censorship.
I thought hipsters were usually the first ones to get beaten up by the locals and move back to their parents’ basement in Iowa. Or so one would hope. They’re sort of the kamikazes of gentrification.
It’s a sign of bourgeois decency that they changed the name of the road blocks from dead end to cul-de-sac.
All Right-Thinkers hate hate hate the suburbs.
Some weeks ago, I read an article in The Wall Street Journal about rising rents at suburban strip malls. The reporter - a male with an Asian name, if memory serves - went out of his way to denigrate the suburbs. The gist of the article was, "Strip malls are ugly and un-trendy - anyone with half a brain knows that vibrant cities are the best places to live - but they can be very profitable."
It was almost as if he was afraid that someone would think he was suggesting that suburbs are an acceptable place to live for the Right Kind of People. "I'm not praising suburbs! I'm only saying that the hideously-ugly strip malls blighting the landscape can make money for their owners!"
I'm not wild about McMansions and strip malls myself, but I sure as hell don't buy into the New Urbanism-groupthink mantra that everyone in the world should be crammed into tiny, insanely-expensive apartments in 50-story buildings.Replies: @Clyde
Where I live strip malls are all over. Some are large and we can can call them outdoors malls. You get out of your automobile, walk to the store and enter it via outdoor access.
As opposed to indoor malls. I never go there. They feel creepy (the death of retail!) plus nothing I ever need is in them except for a Radio Shack and that must be gone (bankrupt) now. The indoor mall near me is in business and doing OK but it has nothing I need. The parking lot is full and they have no indoor mall competition to put them out of business.
Oak Park never had to go through gentrification because it never went downhill. It has always been an expensive artsie-fartsie place surrounded by ghettos and blue collar mob thug dominated places like Cicero.
It is a shame about Austin because the housing stock was similar to Oak Park’s and it too has some samples of famous architecture.
I live a town or two over from Willingboro NJ. It as much of a hell hole as you would imagine.
Imagine that, middle class whites, blacks, Hispanics, and Asians living together in relative harmony. Social conditions rendered Oak Park a success in integration despite efforts to make it super-majority white. I'm sure those whites who sold their homes to non-whites didn't care about the repercussions, they were just happy to get their price and move. As it should be.
“it’s now 64% non-Hispanic white, 5% Asian, 22% black (**typically highly respectable — e.g., my secretary when I worked in Chicago lived in Oak Park**), and only 7% Hispanic.”
So, 36% of this population is affluent across the board. Which meant those whites who sold their homes to nonwhites would be considered by some on this fine blog as being “anti-white”.
**No, not typically. Just respectable, like their non-black neighbors. You really should put that qualifier for all races and ethnic groups to be accurate: "it's not 64% non-Hispanic white, 5% Asian, 22% black, and only 7% Hispanic--typically highly respectable".
“The answer to this question involves a story about how Oak Park used law and good-old-fashioned peer pressure to fight housing segregation.”
Peer pressure, huh. Would that involve shaming?
“‘If one black family moved into an apartment building, that doesn’t mean the whole building has to become all black, or that the building should be allowed to deteriorate.’”
In other words, the owner of the apartment building willingly chose to rent to people he/she desired, which could include non-whites. Now, considering Oak Park is 36& non-white, the neighborhood hasn’t “deteriorated” to the point that whites are choosing not to move in.
It’s socio-economic standing in other words. Fairly well-to-do people—white, black, Hispanic, Asian—share the same attitude toward individuals who are not part of their income bracket. It has little to do with racial attitudes. Middle-class whites do not want lower class whites to move into a neighborhood and ruin it; middle-class blacks, Asians, and Hispanics feel the same way.
“But maybe we should alter the laws to legalize Oak Park’s strategy.”
The issue was the hard ban in Willingboro, which the justices correctly noted is overt discrimination. What Oak Park did was more “genteel”…strongly shame, I mean encourage, white homeowners to sell to their fellow whites and be “wary” of non-whites. The law is on the books, but it is “enforced” by the citizens themselves, not directly by officials. Through backchannels, residents there feel the heat, pressured to the point they caved in by selling to only whites, while others made their own personal decisions and sold to non-whites. But there were't lawsuits because everyone there "played ball". All it would take is some "uppity" white, probably a liberal, to cry foul and sue in federal court. Then the good times would come to a screeching halt.
I admit the discouragement of posting signs indicating one’s home is an ingenious and legal way to discourage integration. In this particular community, over several decades, it worked--it slowed down integration. This strategy, however, may not have the type of “success” in other areas, especially if people prefer to have signs up and realtors make available their homes to all people regardless of race or ethnicity.
“A few years ago, Signage moved from one end of town to the other. He wanted to put up a sign, but he knew that would lead to phone calls and complaints from neighbors, and he just didn’t want to deal with the backlash. To Signage, going without a sign felt like a missed opportunity.”
Interesting how Max Signage was shamed into an action he deemed objectionable. Is it not his property, his own, his own free association, to put a “For Sale” sign and choose for himself who he wants to purchase his home, regardless of the law?
“Having a bunch of poor blacks take over the world’s biggest concentration of buildings by America’s most famous architect would have been Taliban/ISIS level desecration. So, it didn’t happen. And I think we should study how this sacrilege was averted.”
[Laughs] as if poor whites would have been less likely to make an area a wasteland.
“Maybe it would make sense to adjust the laws to allow everybody to enjoy what Oak Park enjoyed?”
Why don’t you make this a crusade.Replies: @Jefferson, @Eric Novak
No such thing as a wasteland created by poor whites anywhere.
That is observably false.
http://blogs.reuters.com/photographers-blog/2010/03/26/hardship-deepens-for-south-africas-poor-whites/
The difference between the two appears to be that Ward Parkway houses have big lawns and are very expensive (and the Victorian neighborhood is probably 1-4 generations older).
In other words: expensive neighborhoods with big lawns stay white. Perhaps big lawns = expensive = not being overrun by poor people. Big houses on small lawns (dense housing), 50 years older than that, are condominiumized, and don't (and Victorian era houses were often boarding houses anyway).
Not being a city planner or student of city planning, I of course don't know what I'm talking about. But my initial, visceral reaction is this.
joeyjoejoeReplies: @AnotherDad, @Mike Zwick
Mr. JoeJoe, i don’t think this is the same.
I know nothing about KC–beyond the “diversity news”, the school debacle, the flash mobs wrecking nice gathering spaces. But a cursory read of Wikipedia on this area–heck it’s called “the Country Club District”!–it’s just not the same situation as Oak Park.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_Club_District
Sure, when you get to the estates where a city’s actual rich people live, the housing stock is just too expensive for blacks to take over–and TPTB would not permit it anyway.
Oak Park simply isn’t in that space. It’s not the country club district–there isn’t a golf course in the entire place. (The closest golf is a Chicago public course next door in Austin!) It’s a nice leafy inner-ring suburb with the high inner-ring suburb density (11,000/sqmi). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_Park,_Illinois
Better housing stock than Austin next door, but nothing blacks couldn’t colonize if allowed to.
In contrast–Wikipedia doesn’t have census breadouts for any of the Country Club District neighborhoods, but Mission Hills is right across the state line–Mission Hills has a fraction of Oak Park’s density at 1700/sqmi.
Different beasts. And the point is the Oak Park white folks managed to–were allowed to– stop the black tide of destruction at their neighborhood boundary … and hold it back. And were allowed to skate by using “extra-legal” means, while many other very nice white neighborhoods all over the country were destroyed.
~~~
Steve blogs on this because it’s both familiar to him and the story of our world today.
The grand organizing moral principal of our age is that white people–specifically white gentiles–are not allowed to have their own things. Not their own neighborhoods, not their own nations. Blacks can have their own things, Jews can have their own things, Muslims can have their own things, homosexuals their own things, women their own things. But white gentile men–whatever nice things they produce (wealth, neighborhoods, nations)–those *must be shared*.
But some white people–the right sort of white people–get to have nice things. Steve likes to shine a light at these cases and see “what’s up” and why they get to (protect themselves and) have nice things and most of us don’t.
Some examples:
— Oak Park vs. Austin. Different rules.
— Ferguson. The NYT editors made this the most important place in the nation for a summer, demanding essentially that routine law enforcement there be shut down so the place would be a safe-space for Michael Brown thugs, *while* enjoying NYC’s lower crime rate enforced by a constitutionally dubious “stop and frisk” policy targeting young NAM men. Different rules.
— Diversity. Diversity is the best thing in the world for you–it makes us stronger. Obama is pushing section 8 housing into the suburbs for “fairness” and to increase “diversity”. Bernie Sanders, Democrat, advocate for diversity, left New York to build a career in … Vermont! –1% black ( less when he went there.) Hillary Clinton, super-champion and cheerleader for diversity with a choice of anywhere in America to live upon leaving the White House chose Chappaqua NY, <1% black. Different rules.
— Country clubs. The NYT conducted a long, long tirade against Augusta's all male policy. But Bloomberg gets to go to an *all white!* country club … because it's an all-Jewish country club. (Yeah, he has to "quit" his membership while mayor then rejoin after.) No campaign about this blatantly racist club right there in NYC. Different rules.
— Border fences. Israel gets to have a nice solid–prison wall style–border fence and to toss out very poor Ethiopian Jews. Border fences in Europe or the US are racist as is any thought about not taking these poor pitiful middle eastern refugees. (Who look to be about 10x better off than the Ethiopian Jews.) Different rules.
“Oak Park is also very gay.”
So happy to hear that the people there are “happy and carefree”
“22% Black sounds like past the tipping point to me. I wouldn’t consider moving into that town.”
The only low crime city in The U.S where Blacks outnumber Whites is Bowie, Maryland. Bowie is 48 percent Negro and they manage to go most years without experiencing a single homicide. But Bowie is an anamoly, the same way a blue eyed Black person is an anamoly.
http://www.city-data.com/city/Bowie-Maryland.html
Moreover, Oak Park is so rare because of all the things that have to go right:
1. Real Estate brokers have to be "encouraged" to avoid Block Busting, and that means a lot of high trust and social cohesion in a society with almost none. The men in gold chains for example would happily Block Bust because there is no come-back to them. Smarter Real Estate firms would know this and get while the Blockbusting was good.
2. Homeowners have to "trust" in the method, and how likely is that when neighbors can be Chinese mid-level officials stashing relatives and money abroad, or the new vibrant refugee from Syria or Iraq or Pakistan, or just atomized SWPL folks who live in a mixture of fear and dread?
3. Black officials in various NGOs or HUD have to restrain ambition and Big Man Syndrome and avoid pushing cousin Tookie into Section 8 Housing at places like Oak Park, the better to stick it to Whitey, generate patronage (oh so important) and further their stick-it-to-Whitey career.
4. The Upper Class has to be invested in preserving a unique architectural heritage and neighborhood, and pull all sorts of upper class strings to thwart: ambitious Black/Hispanic people at HUD/NGOS, the men in Gold Chains, and fear-driven homeowners.
There is a reason Oak Park alone is the only place to even temporarily avoid massive White flight; and that as noted above is coming to an end.
IMHO, we will see the switch from home ownership to temporary rentals as Whites become highly mobile, at least SWPL types, and abandon all communal, social, etc. bounds to become the atomized individuals that the Left/Priesthood wants -- but that means also the end of White guilt, caring about status mongering/whoring, etc. And that expansion into White Flight being subject to diminishing marginal returns, eventually (you could argue Trump is merely an expression of this though not the man himself) White Identitarian Politics; i.e. "Is it Good For Whites?" and a fairly communal flattening of Whites as a group, elimination of Jewish, Italian, Irish, German, WASP identities into one flat homogenous "White" group intent on carving out maximum spoils for itself in a war of all against all other racial groups.
White flight has its limits. Eventually there is no where to run to and with credit tight for Whites, White fight will eventually turn up.Replies: @Jefferson
You keep saying men in gold chains. Are there a lot of Italian Guidos, Persians, or Armenians where you live? Or are you talking about Dindu Nuffins?
The big drawback of the Justices using constitutional interpretation to implement their policy preferences is that it renders the solution of controversies through legislative compromise impossible.Replies: @Glaivester, @Marty T
It’s time we (conservatives and traditionalists) delegitimize the Supreme Court. Our founding fathers did not intend for a group of unaccountable elite lawyers to rule our country. They meant for a separation of powers, but there is no separation of powers, just one supreme branch with seeming unlimited authority. Most of the terrible changes to our culture in the past 50 years come from Supreme Court rulings, including made up rights to abortion, contraception, sodomy and homosexual “marriage”. It doesn’t matter who a Republican nominates to SCOTUS, because in the long run, liberalism always wins out there. We need deeper, structural change that lessens the power of the Court, as well as more municipalities willing to flout clearly illegitimate rulings.
Basically, conservatives need to start thinking outside the box.
Nothing in Oak Park is cheap, and Austin is a ghetto. Middle class apartment buildings have historically undergone demographic change faster than middle class single family houses.
Nobody gets a house really worth 500k for 50k. Factor in the perils of the surrounding environment and the deterioration of the house over the years.
Isn’t Section 8 run by HUD? All it would take is a president who has the will to direct HUD to end Section 8, at least in suburbs. I’m not saying it’s easy, but it’s certainly possible for someone with the will.
http://www.city-data.com/city/Bowie-Maryland.htmlReplies: @Hibernian
Olympia Fields and Flossmoor in Chicago’s South suburbs are the two safest municipalities in that region and they’re both about 50/50 white/black with few Hispanics or Asians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_Club_DistrictSure, when you get to the estates where a city's actual rich people live, the housing stock is just too expensive for blacks to take over--and TPTB would not permit it anyway.Oak Park simply isn't in that space. It's not the country club district--there isn't a golf course in the entire place. (The closest golf is a Chicago public course next door in Austin!) It's a nice leafy inner-ring suburb with the high inner-ring suburb density (11,000/sqmi). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_Park,_Illinois
Better housing stock than Austin next door, but nothing blacks couldn't colonize if allowed to. In contrast--Wikipedia doesn't have census breadouts for any of the Country Club District neighborhoods, but Mission Hills is right across the state line--Mission Hills has a fraction of Oak Park's density at 1700/sqmi. Different beasts. And the point is the Oak Park white folks managed to--were allowed to-- stop the black tide of destruction at their neighborhood boundary ... and hold it back. And were allowed to skate by using "extra-legal" means, while many other very nice white neighborhoods all over the country were destroyed. ~~~Steve blogs on this because it's both familiar to him and the story of our world today.The grand organizing moral principal of our age is that white people--specifically white gentiles--are not allowed to have their own things. Not their own neighborhoods, not their own nations. Blacks can have their own things, Jews can have their own things, Muslims can have their own things, homosexuals their own things, women their own things. But white gentile men--whatever nice things they produce (wealth, neighborhoods, nations)--those *must be shared*. But some white people--the right sort of white people--get to have nice things. Steve likes to shine a light at these cases and see "what's up" and why they get to (protect themselves and) have nice things and most of us don't.Some examples:
-- Oak Park vs. Austin. Different rules.
-- Ferguson. The NYT editors made this the most important place in the nation for a summer, demanding essentially that routine law enforcement there be shut down so the place would be a safe-space for Michael Brown thugs, *while* enjoying NYC's lower crime rate enforced by a constitutionally dubious "stop and frisk" policy targeting young NAM men. Different rules.
-- Diversity. Diversity is the best thing in the world for you--it makes us stronger. Obama is pushing section 8 housing into the suburbs for "fairness" and to increase "diversity". Bernie Sanders, Democrat, advocate for diversity, left New York to build a career in ... Vermont! --1% black ( less when he went there.) Hillary Clinton, super-champion and cheerleader for diversity with a choice of anywhere in America to live upon leaving the White House chose Chappaqua NY, <1% black. Different rules.
-- Country clubs. The NYT conducted a long, long tirade against Augusta's all male policy. But Bloomberg gets to go to an *all white!* country club ... because it's an all-Jewish country club. (Yeah, he has to "quit" his membership while mayor then rejoin after.) No campaign about this blatantly racist club right there in NYC. Different rules.
-- Border fences. Israel gets to have a nice solid--prison wall style--border fence and to toss out very poor Ethiopian Jews. Border fences in Europe or the US are racist as is any thought about not taking these poor pitiful middle eastern refugees. (Who look to be about 10x better off than the Ethiopian Jews.) Different rules.Replies: @Hibernian
Oak Park was never all that Jewish and only a small portion at the NW corner is super affluent with large houses on large lots. Also it doesn’t have a major university (a small Catholic college and a small Lutheran college are nearby in River forest) like Hyde Park and Evanston. I think its one unique advantage is the historic connection with Wright, Hemingway, and others.
Their main restraint is the desirability of the housing and prices have kept the blacks "at bay". I haven't been there some time--a cross country road trip with the kids in 2003, visited my cousin there and my UG girlfriend next door in River Forest. I can testify, both definitely nice "leafy" places.
But a grad-school acquaintance of mine took a job at the Chicago Fed two years back. A few of us had some long discussions of his neighborhood options over email. Oak Park wasn't even on his list. It's expensive and the HS--shared with River Forest--is already 25% black. At that number, even if the black adults are high quality, regression to the mean, a bunch of a*holes messing up your kids' education. Since the HS is shared with the smaller River Forest--much whiter--i thought maybe the elementaries would have even higher percentages ... but checked yesterday and its only marginally so. Seems like most folks as yet aren't packing the kids off to private school. But given demographic trends--the sort of people Oak Park draws--are not the highly fertile white people ... that schools are headed blacker and browner.
My take is there is a flipping point, where the family types think "oh i have to pay for this expensive house *and* private school?", start losing interest and pealing off. You can't sustain the place--or the prices--with yuppies and gays, it's "leafy suburb" not Manhattan. Chicago's amenities while convenient are an L ride, though black Chicago neighborhoods, away. When the prices decline, then the decline really accelerates.Replies: @Hibernian
My cousin and her husband, with 1 kid in college and 1 recently graduated, live in a fairly big house on a fairly small lot in SW Oak Park. They started with a condo on Austin Blvd. (Oak Park/Austin dividing line) in the late ’70s, then bought the house in the early ’90s about the time the 1st child was born. I don’t think they’re going to stay there long.
A president won’t just get the will to direct HUD to dismantle Section 8. You are talking about Section 8 of the Housing Act of 1937. It has been amended by Congress several times and would require Congress to dismantle or defund. Dismantling ain’t gonna happen. The notion of defending things makes for great rhetoric for Evangelical presidential primary candidates looking to rally the base, but it is not a viable option. Especially for Section 8 which helps the Rahm Immanuels of the world scatter their problems to the burbs and maximize riverfront property values. No, the best that can be hoped for is actually fixing what we have been given and keeping more from entering into our welfare state.
Lower class White males still commit less crime than more financially well off Black males.
http://www.amren.com/news/2016/03/poor-white-kids-are-less-likely-to-go-to-prison-than-rich-black-kids/
That would explain why predominantly Black PG County, Maryland for example has a lot more crime than West Virginia, even though the former has a higher median household income than the latter.
Even higher income African American communitues can not escape ratchet ghetto hood culture.Replies: @Corvinus
“Lower class White males still commit less crime than more financially well off Black males.”
The data point offered in the story is from 1985! Do you have anything current?
In addition, the researchers duly noted that “It could be that the white participants in the study still had other advantages over their black peers, even if they had been incarcerated. Perhaps they went to better schools, or lived in areas where it was easier to find work. At the same time, another reason for the disparity between black and white wealth could be that employers make negative inferences about black workers’ pasts, even those who have never been to prison.”
“No such thing as a wasteland created by poor whites anywhere.”
That is observably false.
http://blogs.reuters.com/photographers-blog/2010/03/26/hardship-deepens-for-south-africas-poor-whites/
It often struck me as odd that Oak Park didn’t have a major college.
“They built a web of relationships between community groups, local government, landlords and real estate agents, and law enforcement.”
Its funny the way political bias is the only conceivable distinction between “a web of relationships between community groups,” and “a felony criminal conspiracy.”
Colin Quinn said he went to a predominantly Puerto Rican high school.
I am thinking what kind of Irish Catholic parents send their child to a mostly Boricua school? Unless they saw it as a glass half full type of situation, like hey at least he is going to a school where most students are Catholic.Replies: @Kevin O'Keeffe
“I am thinking what kind of Irish Catholic parents send their child to a mostly Boricua school?”
One that unfortunately had their house lot drawn into a crappy school district, who didn’t feel that either moving, or paying for a private school, was an affordable/practical option? This describes much of the American White lower-middle class, who might easily find themselves in a similar situation.
The difference between the two appears to be that Ward Parkway houses have big lawns and are very expensive (and the Victorian neighborhood is probably 1-4 generations older).
In other words: expensive neighborhoods with big lawns stay white. Perhaps big lawns = expensive = not being overrun by poor people. Big houses on small lawns (dense housing), 50 years older than that, are condominiumized, and don't (and Victorian era houses were often boarding houses anyway).
Not being a city planner or student of city planning, I of course don't know what I'm talking about. But my initial, visceral reaction is this.
joeyjoejoeReplies: @AnotherDad, @Mike Zwick
Oak Park and Austin were very similar in their housing stock, ethnic makeup (Italians, Greeks, and some wealthy Wasps), and Austin was a suburb like Oak Park until annexed to Chicago in the early 20th Century. Austin went one way due to blockbusting and other scare tactics to get people to move away so slumlords could take over, and Oak Park went the other way by thinking out the problem and finding a solution. You can literally stand 1/2 block into Oak Park and be in a leafy older urban neighborhood and it is peaceful, while a 1/2 block away there are burned out houses in an area that looks like the worst parts of the South Bronx in NY. Steve has mentioned how his wife’s family lived in Austin at one time and his Dad was from Oak Park. So you can see how all of this might interest him.