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From Becker’s Hospital Review:
Novant Health must pay $10M to former exec in discrimination case
Alia Paavola – 15 hours agoA former Novant Health executive who claimed in a lawsuit he was fired to help the organization reach diversity goals was awarded $10 million by a federal jury Oct. 22.
In the lawsuit, filed November 2019, David Duvall, former senior vice president of marketing and communications, alleges he lost his job at the Winston Salem, N.C.-based system in 2018 without warning and shortly before his five-year anniversary despite receiving positive performance reviews.
Mr. Duvall, a white man, was allegedly replaced by two people: a white woman, who became chief communications officer, and a Black woman, who was hired to lead marketing efforts, according to the lawsuit.
But I thought black women work twice as hard?
In the Oct. 22 decision, the jury decided that Novant Health failed to prove that the health system would have dismissed Mr. Duvall regardless of his race.
“We are extremely disappointed with the verdict as we believe it is not supported by the evidence presented at trial, which includes our reason for Mr. Duvall’s termination,” a Novant Health spokesperson told Becker’s Hospital Review. …
“Novant Health is one of thousands of organizations to put in place robust diversity and inclusion programs, which we believe can co-exist alongside strong non-discriminatory policies that extend to all races and genders, including white men,” the statement continues.
Sure. Granted, nobody can explain in clear language how it is logically possible to square the Equal Protection clause with affirmative action, but, trust us, it just is.
“It’s important for all current and future team members to know that this verdict will not change Novant Health’s steadfast commitment to diversity, inclusion and equity for all.”
I definitely want to go to a hospital whose ownership has “a steadfast commitment to diversity, inclusion and equity” or DIE for short.
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This case has nothing to do with the 14th Amendment, Steve. Novant Health is not a state actor. This was a wrongful-termination case based upon a breach of statutory civil-rights law.
CHARLOTTE, N.C. — A jury awarded a former Novant Health executive $10 million after winning a discrimination suit in Federal Court Tuesday.
David Duvall said he lost his job as a senior vice president of marketing and communication at Novant due to the company's effort to diversify leadership. Duvall claims he was fired because he is a white man.
Duvall said in the lawsuit that after his firing in 2018, he was replaced by two women--one Black and one white. He accused Novant of violating Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, which prohibits race and gender discrimination in the workplace.
A Federal jury agreed and awarded him $10 million after Novant failed to prove Duvall would have been fired regardless of his race.
***
https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/life/legal-smarts/former-novant-health-executive-gets-10-million-in-a-discrimination-suit/83-9301b535-e4ad-4214-8f24-755fe2ac6663
Wow! Hardcore Catholic Sailer admits to having a DNR like atheist pagan Stan Mute? Wassup? Have you finally realized that your Boomer life Hollyweird was Jewish bullshit? That your pals the Sellecks and other Detriot refugees may have been on to something?
If the current insanity with experimental gene therapy for a cold virus (even if criminally enhanced by your Boomer government) is frightening, look only to the medical device industry for assurance. Just believe Boomer. You’re going to have your Jetson’s flying car any moment now. And Elon’s going to build your Rosie too!
You remind me why my very first anonymous online identity was “Cynic” back in the early 90’s. You Boomers have never had a clue..
Youd better not get sick then, Steve. No wonder you were so worried about the Kung Flu. Such a hospital, or any business organization bigger than a couple of hundred employees, does not exist in this country.
Anyway, good, on David Duvall for fighting back. That $10 million ought to teach Novant a thing or two. It’ll take them a lot of $200 dollar aspirin tablets to make that up, believe you me!
Steve,
I am going to be blunt. You have been an utter failure on the plandemic. Have you bought into the lies of Covid deaths, PCR as a clinical diagnostic, masks to stop viruses, social distancing, lockdowns, the so-called “vaccine” and vaxx passports? You rarely talk about it and when you do, it’s wishy-washy at best. This is the ultimate issue of all of our lives, ahead of anti-white hate and immigration, and you disappointed big time. I think less of you because of that.
Take your head out of your a$$.Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Mike Tre
Unfortunately, most of the big mistakes our dear leaders made occurred early on before much of the data had come in. At some point in mid-2020, Steve noted that the Wuflu was indeed a disease of the old, fat and/or sick. By that point, the leaders were not turning back once they’d tasted the fame, power and adoration of the MSM (see Cuomo).Replies: @SimplePseudonymicHandle, @guest007
I hope nobody you know has been injured by the vaccination.
Also Mr. Sailer has never deleted one of my comments because it was contrary to his personal covid opinion, unlike Ron Unz who has done so twice.
I can't even comprehend what to think of the mentality that thinks that.
Hint: power grabs and spending don't have kids.Replies: @Mike Tre
Some of us like that Steve is a break from all that.
Every single anti-vaxx thread turns into the same thing which is the anti-vaxx crowd floating 10 different competing conspiracies. They can't even agree on if the vaccine works.
Vaccine passports aren't required to fly in the US and the hospitals are no longer overloaded with the unvaccinated. Numbers are down so unless another mutation develops there won't be any new legislation.
But I thought black women work twice as hard?
Oh, but they do! But with just one-quarter the efficiency, so one black woman’s output is half of a white man’s.
Because the 14th Amendment’s Due Process clause and Section 5 (of the 14th Amendment) are believed to show that Equal Protection need not mean “treated same under the law” because some “protected” groups do badder than others under neutral laws, so correct Due Process is needed to give “true” equal protection by making laws unequal.
Or something.
They’ll just pay the verdict with federal funny money. Until this discrimination is punished with firings and bankruptcies, it will continue.
No avoiding that. I don’t know how a certain set of people thought they would escape the degradation of affirmative action. From what I can tell, some thought they’d get rich, or have the benefit of a high paying job due to their high SAT score, and be spared the misery the yokels had to go through.
Ain’t gonna happen. It’s all one system. A lot of your relatives are already dead due to affirmative action. And it happens in other ways too. Perhaps the worst manifestation is cures never developed in the first place. Medical advances slowed down long ago.
Is it weird that I’m TOTALLY shocked by this outcome? I’m not being sarcastic. I don’t see how this can be allowed to stand.
This is just a simple pressure release for the rising white anger the controllers have noticed.
Like a blowoff valve on a turbocharger.
Or a quality lingam massage from an attractive young woman.
Or spending hours reading and commenting here!
You mean it's bloody news that White guys have been discriminated against in labor markets for better jobs, and that White women and Black women have been unfairly favored in labor markets for better jobs? You mean it's bloody news that that discrimination is a creature of the Federal government, Congress, the Supreme Court, and their parrots in 10,000 larger companies and non-profits throughout the U. S.?
***
CHARLOTTE, N.C. — A jury awarded a former Novant Health executive $10 million after winning a discrimination suit in Federal Court Tuesday.
David Duvall said he lost his job as a senior vice president of marketing and communication at Novant due to the company’s effort to diversify leadership. Duvall claims he was fired because he is a white man.
Duvall said in the lawsuit that after his firing in 2018, he was replaced by two women–one Black and one white. He accused Novant of violating Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, which prohibits race and gender discrimination in the workplace.
A Federal jury agreed and awarded him $10 million after Novant failed to prove Duvall would have been fired regardless of his race.
***
https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/life/legal-smarts/former-novant-health-executive-gets-10-million-in-a-discrimination-suit/83-9301b535-e4ad-4214-8f24-755fe2ac6663
Look for Title VII of the Civil Rights Act to be amended soon.
If I were an elected official in charge of a civil rights agency or division, I’d fire all the whites therein on my first day and replace them with George Floyds and Steve Cokelys. Give the people what they want, good and g**damn hard.
Hell, Floyd was more honest and competent than the vast bulk of the Biden Administration is today.
I hope this sticks. It will also strengthen the hand of those decision-makers at healthcare systems who seek to resist affirmative action hiring practices.
Wouldn’t it be easier, more objective, and more meritocratic if all promotions were awarded according to some formula involving test scores and seniority?
After 5 years of service, allow employees to take a management-track test. Promote the highest scorer.
After 10 years, a test to promote into senior management.
After 15 years, you can test into VP.
No possibility of discrimination if you promote according to seniority and test scores.
I have opinions, sure, but it's simply not my business, how some business in North Carolina that i do not own makes its staffing decisions. And it is not--properly--the business of bureaucrats in D.C., not the judge down the street.
Ideally we can have the government avoid discriminating on race/ethnicity among its citizens in its public business. But in a free society, people's private business should be ... their business. Regulation against fraud and unsafe practices, pollution--stuff affecting other people. Fine. If the people want it, pass some laws.
But micromanaging everyone's associations is a creeping tyranny. When the government is ordering people whom to bake cakes for, something has gone very, very wrong.Replies: @Art Deco
You and me both, man. The future terrifies me.
Time for my sponge bath…
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/02/health/georgia-dancing-doctor-lawsuit/index.html
It's reassuring to know she was in the end not fired but suspended.
The problem with hospitals is that their executives (usually midwit White dudes advised by the midwit HR and Admin dudettes they are sleeping with) aren’t bright enough to give the old dude they want to push out a package that makes him happy to take the deal. They probably could have bought him out for less than a million.
Anyway, good, on David Duvall for fighting back. That $10 million ought to teach Novant a thing or two. It'll take them a lot of $200 dollar aspirin tablets to make that up, believe you me!Replies: @Charon
Won’t teach them anything at all. As you say in your very next sentence, it won’t be coming out of their pockets but out of their customers’ pockets.
Similarly to how government merely charges its losses to the taxpayers.
And if you’ve ever actually tangled with one of these monstrous institutions, you know that they have absolutely no fear of failure, because their pockets are infinitely deep. They’ll just appeal any decision they don’t like. They know you’ll run out of money long before they run out of appeals.
One of the reasons for consolidation in healthcare is that the insurance companies are only forced to do business with the market leader and not with the rest of the hospitals/care providers.Replies: @Art Deco
No. Immigration is the ONLY issue.
Take your head out of your a$$.
"No. Immigration is the ONLY issue."
It's a (((floor wax))) AND a (((dessert topping)))!
Take your head out of your a$$.Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Mike Tre
“This is the ultimate issue of all of our lives, ahead of anti-white hate and immigration,”
“No. Immigration is the ONLY issue.”
It’s a (((floor wax))) AND a (((dessert topping)))!
After 5 years of service, allow employees to take a management-track test. Promote the highest scorer.
After 10 years, a test to promote into senior management.
After 15 years, you can test into VP.
No possibility of discrimination if you promote according to seniority and test scores.Replies: @Pericles, @guest007, @TontoBubbaGoldstein, @AnotherDad
But, as you know Bob, tests are racist.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d6/2f/16/d62f16281897d6660d8b3ee26d1fa149.jpgTime for my sponge bath...Replies: @Pericles, @Truth
Reminds me of the dancing surgeon.
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/02/health/georgia-dancing-doctor-lawsuit/index.html
It’s reassuring to know she was in the end not fired but suspended.
I know you all are thinking, where do I get this 10 million dollar gig? That you’ll take it for a lousy one or two million.
Sorry, but this 10 million settlement is peanuts. You know a black man would have gotten at least 10x more. In fact a black man did. What he had to endure for turning bolts at a Tesla assembly plant! You could wrench your back putting their thousand lb batteries in!
The jurors laid 137 millions on the Tesla black dude for some racial catcalls.
Most of the easy cures have been discovered. A lot of the increase in health care costs and therefore insurance, has been the deployment of evermore expensive drugs that perform miracles for smaller and smaller groups of people.
Charles H. Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office (1899)
The right needs something akin to FIRE only for employment discrimination. So far the institutional right has been pretty supine on the DIE phenomena, and it seems like every other day the business journal in my city has another piece about how a major company/employer locally is leaning way in on DIE and trumpeting the latest affirmative action hire of a diversity officer.
$10M to Novartis is nothing, but enough lawsuits and it will give employers some pause – or backbone – when it comes to anti-white policies and perhaps higher insurance premiums to boot as a hedge against similar lawsuits.
This poor little hospital bulletin didn’t get the memo to not put those words in the DIE order
Hence, the obvious facetiousness of the first sentence of the two.
One more thing about your last paragraph, Charon: I’m not talking about the employment end, as these people have big monopolies in some cities – as an employee, even one in big demand like a nurse, you are at their mercy.
However, as a customer, if you don’t agree with a bill, you simply don’t pay any more than you think is right. I was right there on the phone with the guy in the billing department ($1,300 for 1/2 hour behind the counter at the emergency room – f__k that!). “Well, man, you got 250 bucks from us, and I paid the doctor’s bill. That’s good enough. I can’t be paying for the 4 illegal aliens that were there that day with us.” Oh, he got all indignant-like, but I didn’t care.
It helps not to give a rat’s ass about one’s credit rating. Buy things with cash. “Neither a borrower nor a lender be.”. I do make exceptions on the lender part for people I trust.
Steve is old and realizes he’s the kind of guy who dies from flu like diseases. He turns off his noticing for the same reason old people in power are prepared to wreck society: they’re at risk and fuck everybody else.
Sorry, but this 10 million settlement is peanuts. You know a black man would have gotten at least 10x more. In fact a black man did. What he had to endure for turning bolts at a Tesla assembly plant! You could wrench your back putting their thousand lb batteries in!
The jurors laid 137 millions on the Tesla black dude for some racial catcalls.Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Truth
Both of these verdicts will be reduced on appeal. The only question is how much.
DEI Diversity, equity and inclusion really means anti-white racism and exclusion. Fire whitey to hire blackie and brownie.
The hospital screwed up.
Before pulling its DIE stunt, they should have given him a bad performance review, which can easily be done to someone in management, because such reviews are always subjective.
Show some compassion. Nobody gets everything right. Steve was clearly on the side of “having more data” before reaching a conclusion about Wuflu.
Unfortunately, most of the big mistakes our dear leaders made occurred early on before much of the data had come in. At some point in mid-2020, Steve noted that the Wuflu was indeed a disease of the old, fat and/or sick. By that point, the leaders were not turning back once they’d tasted the fame, power and adoration of the MSM (see Cuomo).
$10M to Novartis is nothing, but enough lawsuits and it will give employers some pause - or backbone - when it comes to anti-white policies and perhaps higher insurance premiums to boot as a hedge against similar lawsuits.Replies: @Dan Hayes, @ben tillman
How come FIRE hasn’t sold out as such entities as the ACLU?
You can’t spell “robust” without “rob us”.
Or "rut".
https://www.phographer.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/rutting-stags-richmond-england.jpg
No, the pandemic is a mere temporary nuisance. The genocide-in-progress threatens permanent doom.
This. The pandemic craziness is tactics, the anti-White campaign is strategy. As far as the old saw goes "Amateurs talk about strategy, professionals talk about logistics."; immigration is logistics.
It’s looking like it will be a permanent temporary nuisance. We’re rabidly approaching the 2-year anniversary and many places are still locked down. Fourth round of clot shots are coming out now.
$10M to Novartis is nothing, but enough lawsuits and it will give employers some pause - or backbone - when it comes to anti-white policies and perhaps higher insurance premiums to boot as a hedge against similar lawsuits.Replies: @Dan Hayes, @ben tillman
If you put up the money (which could be as little as half a million), the thing akin to FIRE will appear.
Nothing directly to do. I think the prescriptions of the ‘civil rights’ law have to be in accordance with the 14th Amendment. Notionally.
Agreed. Until the corporate officers who make these decisions are held personally liable, it’s just part of the cost of doing business. Ralph Nader was right about some things.
See Wm. Donohue’s history of the ACLU. His thesis was that it was always a political lawfare outfit. Its objects have changed over time. The ‘civil liberties’ angle was marketing and – in discrete cases – a means to an end. Subsequent to his book on the subject, he placed an article in The New Republic where he said ‘civil liberties’ had as much relation to the ACLU’s fare as telegraph services did to AT & T’s fare – still in the product catalogue, but nowhere near the action.
After 5 years of service, allow employees to take a management-track test. Promote the highest scorer.
After 10 years, a test to promote into senior management.
After 15 years, you can test into VP.
No possibility of discrimination if you promote according to seniority and test scores.Replies: @Pericles, @guest007, @TontoBubbaGoldstein, @AnotherDad
But many of the employees will not wait around that long. Seniority based employment is the domain of unions and civil service. A company would have to exist for 15 years to have a single VP.
Racial equity demands that both verdicts get reduced to 1-2 million dollars. Why should blacks get higher payouts than whites in racism-at-the-job lawsuits?
DEI Diversity, equity and inclusion really means anti-white racism and exclusion. Fire whitey to hire blackie and brownie.
Healthcare is not an industry of price setters but of price takers. Since CMS pays for more than 50% of healthcare costs and CMS sets its reimbursement, it is impossible for a hospital to pass on costs to patients. If a healthcare system tries to raise its prices, the insurance companies will drop the healthcare system.
One of the reasons for consolidation in healthcare is that the insurance companies are only forced to do business with the market leader and not with the rest of the hospitals/care providers.
Medicare reimbursement accounts for about 30% of the gross revenues of the health-care-and-social-assistance sector. Another 17% is derived from the U.S. Government's general revenues and distributed to state governments to finance Medicaid; doesn't go to providers directly.
Is this a covid thread? I was perusing Naked Capitalism this morning and they had two separate medical professional reports arguing (I am kind of paraphrasing here as they couldn’t bring themselves to explicitly say this) that the statistics bear out that the vaccinations are very very very close to a do-nothing. To me this is amazing.
I hope nobody you know has been injured by the vaccination.
Also Mr. Sailer has never deleted one of my comments because it was contrary to his personal covid opinion, unlike Ron Unz who has done so twice.
FINALLY! A healthcare organization committed to no-nonsense truth in advertising!
If the current insanity with experimental gene therapy for a cold virus (even if criminally enhanced by your Boomer government) is frightening, look only to the medical device industry for assurance. Just believe Boomer. You’re going to have your Jetson’s flying car any moment now. And Elon’s going to build your Rosie too!
You remind me why my very first anonymous online identity was “Cynic” back in the early 90’s. You Boomers have never had a clue..Replies: @Eric Novak
What? Your post is jargon.
You can’t find criticism of cov19 elsewhere? Is that right?
Novant wouldn’t exist (at least in its present form and scale) absent inflows of Federal fake money.
Neither would General Motors-- but, it is not a state actor, subject to the 14th Amendment's Equal Protection Clause, either.Replies: @Art Deco, @Jim Bob Lassiter
After 5 years of service, allow employees to take a management-track test. Promote the highest scorer.
After 10 years, a test to promote into senior management.
After 15 years, you can test into VP.
No possibility of discrimination if you promote according to seniority and test scores.Replies: @Pericles, @guest007, @TontoBubbaGoldstein, @AnotherDad
Sheeee-it! Next you’ll be calling for us to judge people by the content of their character and not the color of their skin…
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d6/2f/16/d62f16281897d6660d8b3ee26d1fa149.jpgTime for my sponge bath...Replies: @Pericles, @Truth
You wish.
1. Some groups have far lower standards for sexual partners.
2. Some groups don't have a strong "theory of mind" for others.Replies: @Truth
Sorry, but this 10 million settlement is peanuts. You know a black man would have gotten at least 10x more. In fact a black man did. What he had to endure for turning bolts at a Tesla assembly plant! You could wrench your back putting their thousand lb batteries in!
The jurors laid 137 millions on the Tesla black dude for some racial catcalls.Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Truth
How much do you have in the bank?
WHOOOSH!!Replies: @Truth
Instantly suggests a number of marketing slogans for the hospital:
Novant Health System……………a good place to DIE.
Novant Health System……………come DIE with us.
Novant Health System……………today is a good day to DIE.
sometimes the enemy is gentiles with moustaches.
https://journalnow.com/business/novant-health-names-new-chief-operating-officer/article_feb85e2e-1a68-5ceb-82b0-39cc66369759.html
a white strike would solve everything. atlas shrugging.
Nothing to See Here, Folks; Move Along! $10MM is chicken-feed; just the price to buy Virtue Points from the “minority communities!” Gee, I love that phrase; it’s as if those with skin darker than a paper grocery sack somehow have utterly different objectives for their lives. A “community” implies a group of people with something in COMMON. I submit for your consideration: neighborhoods free of crime and ugly graffiti, with schools that prepare one’s children for a shot at later success. A business climate that offers rewarding and lucrative jobs. Recreational and social activities for one’s leisure hours. Apparently, those things aren’t desirable or even obtainable if enough members of the “community” are on the darker side of the paper bag test. Or, at least we whites are constantly told so by the Lame Stream Media.
LOL.
I can’t even comprehend what to think of the mentality that thinks that.
Hint: power grabs and spending don’t have kids.
There might not be a more pathetic sight than scared old white men STILL wearing their masks properly into stores. The last remnants of a defeated generation.Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
There’s a high-traffic reddit thread on this topic. It’s not just Right Wingers fed up with this stuff. The more the (current) elite does to ruin their credibility, the better?
link
That’s easy. Orwell’s explained it perfectly in 1984: All animals are equal but some are more equal than others.
"Animal Farm", not "1984".
I have no problem with this guy losing “his” job. However, I do have a problem with the legal lottery system.
This is especially true when the deep pockets getting picked belong to the government. Taxpayers get hit twice. The first time when their money gets taxed away (to pay for always-bad programs they strongly oppose). The second time to payoff the opportunistic lawyers who, like flies, converge on the enormous bureaucracies (e.g. public schools) involved.
Somehow I think that if the legislature were made up of 100% private sector types instead of lawyers, that the government’s susceptibility to pay monetary damages would be non-existent.
https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/1453799536615464971Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard, @Ghost of Bull Moose
pandemic is mere temporary nuisance. The genocide-in-progress threatens permanent doom
This. The pandemic craziness is tactics, the anti-White campaign is strategy. As far as the old saw goes “Amateurs talk about strategy, professionals talk about logistics.”; immigration is logistics.
You do have to have some sympathy for employers. If they DIDN’T promote the black woman, they get sued for discrimination. If they fire the white guy in order to promote the black woman, they get sued for discrimination. It’s almost as if getting rid of the common law doctrine that businesses and not juries or the government should be in charge of hiring and firing decisions was a big mistake.
Have you bought into the lies of Covid deaths, PCR as a clinical diagnostic, masks to stop viruses, social distancing, lockdowns, the so-called “vaccine” and vaxx passports? You rarely talk about it and when you do, it’s wishy-washy at best. This is the ultimate issue of all of our lives, ahead of anti-white hate and immigration, and you disappointed big time. I think less of you because of that.
Some of us like that Steve is a break from all that.
Every single anti-vaxx thread turns into the same thing which is the anti-vaxx crowd floating 10 different competing conspiracies. They can’t even agree on if the vaccine works.
Vaccine passports aren’t required to fly in the US and the hospitals are no longer overloaded with the unvaccinated. Numbers are down so unless another mutation develops there won’t be any new legislation.
I can't even comprehend what to think of the mentality that thinks that.
Hint: power grabs and spending don't have kids.Replies: @Mike Tre
And non boomers have difficulty comprehending the mentality of “they’re not my kids and I got mine, so what do I care about masks? They make me look not as old when I wear them anyway!”
There might not be a more pathetic sight than scared old white men STILL wearing their masks properly into stores. The last remnants of a defeated generation.
The message to organizations is to be very careful about firing White men that you intend to replace for the sake of diversity. It’s much safer to discriminate when hiring rather than when replacing. Corporate America approves.
David Duvall, former senior vice president of marketing and communications</i.
Any White man going into marketing would have to be nuts unless he plans on being in business for himself. In such a case he would probably have to focus on small businesses.
I used to work in a large organization and we bought software from a very large tech company. This was a very White area but their sales guys looked like a diversity ad. I read somewhere that all the tech companies maximize diversity points in their sales and marketing to make up for the sin of hiring so many White and Asian men.
The laws really aren’t the issue. It’s the will and belief that a lack of diversity implies White racism. A corresponding belief is that White men are overrated as workers as they must be overrepresented in certain areas due to White networks. So to many of these organizations they are doing their moral duty to fix an artificial inequality.
Universities that are forbidden from discriminating based on race have switched to income. They can play dumb and claim that they had no idea Trayvon was Black. He was just randomly selected from the single parent/low income group.
There are also liberals that accept racial differences and feel that Whites should be discriminated against to make up for what they feel is an unfair reality.
The best way to circumvent all of this madness is to avoid the cities.
Before pulling its DIE stunt, they should have given him a bad performance review, which can easily be done to someone in management, because such reviews are always subjective.Replies: @thatcher76
Yeah I think that was their mistake. Not creating a paper-trail. The problem was he was so competent they must have had a twinge of conscience. They won’t make that mistake again. If you’re a white guy and all of a sudden you start getting these bizarre negative performance reviews out of nowhere, you’ve been chosen to DIE.
Few managers in large organizations work in isolation. Without the goodwill of your team, you’re doomed.Replies: @JackOH
I don’t think it’s the cost of the drugs that drive the costs of healthcare so much as the fact that those drugs keep aged people needing care alive for so much longer. I don’t want to know how much my wife’s father has cost in treatment, but it could easily be far more than he’s paid in taxes during his lifetime. And he is not a poor man.
They’re not discriminating against white men. They’re just discriminating in favor of everyone but white men.
Pretty simple. Get it?
So, the lesson here is that you may have to set up a white man you’re looking to get rid of in favor of melanin-americans by establishing a trail of pretextual negative performance reviews before termination.
Novant failed to prove Duvall would have been fired regardless of his race.
That’s a weird way of stating it. I’d like to know what evidence he presented that they couldn’t refute. Did he have a recording of his boss telling him why he was fired, or was someone stupid enough to put in on paper? Every corporation will be more careful next time.
Perhaps – but large, politically powerful employers (like Hospital Networks) didn’t exercise their power when this stuff was in its infancy, and thought that they could just absorb the costs by hiding them in the prices of care charged to insured patients. This is in large part the world that they made, or, at least, allowed to be made.
I think that on the whole you are correct and that much of the employer-employee relationship should remain a private matter of contract. But we’re several decades into this, and it doesn’t look like there is a political force in the U.S. with sufficient power to roll back pernicious nonsense in the face of a narrative about “white supremacy.” At least for the time being, we are left to make them squirm.
“Nothing directly to do. I think the prescriptions of the ‘civil rights’ law have to be in accordance with the 14th Amendment. Notionally.”
The prescriptions of any federal statute must be in accordance with the entirety of the Constitution of the United States– not just with the Equal Protection Clause of Section 1 of the 14th Amendment; to wit:
***
Section 1
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
***
https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-14/
Any constitutional issues with the Civil Rights Act of 1964, as amended, do not include any plausible claim of there being an equal-protection violation in the specific section of the Act under which this employment-discrimination lawsuit had been brought; to wit:
***
SEC. 2000e-2. [Section 703]
(a) Employer practices
It shall be an unlawful employment practice for an employer –
(1) to fail or refuse to hire or to discharge any individual, or otherwise to discriminate against any individual with respect to his compensation, terms, conditions, or privileges of employment, because of such individual’s race, color, religion, sex, or national origin; or
(2) to limit, segregate, or classify his employees or applicants for employment in any way which would deprive or tend to deprive any individual of employment opportunities or otherwise adversely affect his status as an employee, because of such individual’s race, color, religion, sex, or national origin.
***
https://www.eeoc.gov/statutes/title-vii-civil-rights-act-1964
That particular section of the Act is patently neutral as to an employee’s race or sex, inter alia, and thus raises no equal-protection issue as to the ultimate constitutionality of that particular section of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, as amended.
Again, since the employer in this particular discrimination lawsuit is a private party, not a state actor (as would be the case, for instance, if this were a public hospital affiliated with a public university), the 14th Amendment, whether in whole or in part, is not an issue, at all, in this case.
I’d rather go to a hospital that has a steadfast commitment to hiring the most qualified staff including doctors, nurses etc. I don’t give a d4mn about diversity, inclusion and equity. Anyone that doesn’t agree w/ me is a insane.
After 5 years of service, allow employees to take a management-track test. Promote the highest scorer.
After 10 years, a test to promote into senior management.
After 15 years, you can test into VP.
No possibility of discrimination if you promote according to seniority and test scores.Replies: @Pericles, @guest007, @TontoBubbaGoldstein, @AnotherDad
Or we could just repeal all the “civil rights” laws and return to being a free nation.
I have opinions, sure, but it’s simply not my business, how some business in North Carolina that i do not own makes its staffing decisions. And it is not–properly–the business of bureaucrats in D.C., not the judge down the street.
Ideally we can have the government avoid discriminating on race/ethnicity among its citizens in its public business. But in a free society, people’s private business should be … their business. Regulation against fraud and unsafe practices, pollution–stuff affecting other people. Fine. If the people want it, pass some laws.
But micromanaging everyone’s associations is a creeping tyranny. When the government is ordering people whom to bake cakes for, something has gone very, very wrong.
Your points were made by Gottfried Dietze and Robert Bork nearly 60 years ago. In the context of the time, their arguments seemed bloodless, but at this point we can see that the legislation was a catalyst for the comprehensive destruction of any sense of free association among the people Glenn Reynolds calls 'the administrative class'. So you get idiot college deans insisting that evangelical student clubs are 'discriminating' if they have a rule that their members be professing evangelicals.
And the judiciary teamed up with skeevy administrative agencies to make color-blind recruitment and promotion in the public sector well-nigh impossible.
Translation: we’re still going to hire black women nurses. Sure, they’re surly and incompetent, but there aren’t enough foreigners to replace them. Also, the black woman chief diversity officer is here to stay.
Take your head out of your a$$.Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Mike Tre
Right. Because we fix immigration and the negro question answers itself? Pots and kettles.
“Orwell’s explained it perfectly in 1984: All animals are equal but some are more equal than others.”
“Animal Farm”, not “1984”.
I don’t know how it compares to the taxes he paid, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the treatment my father received in the last 9 months of his life exceeded all the medical costs he accumulated in his first 1,070 months.
Unfortunately, most of the big mistakes our dear leaders made occurred early on before much of the data had come in. At some point in mid-2020, Steve noted that the Wuflu was indeed a disease of the old, fat and/or sick. By that point, the leaders were not turning back once they’d tasted the fame, power and adoration of the MSM (see Cuomo).Replies: @SimplePseudonymicHandle, @guest007
Bardon Kaldian has this one covered. Scroll up and check it out.
In my case, the negative performance reviews were neither bizarre nor out of nowhere. Once it is determined you don’t “fit in,” your supervisors, colleagues and subordinates start sabotaging your work. Willfully misunderstanding instructions, failing to share information, missing deadlines, being too busy to help, letting your mistakes go unnoticed until it’s too late. All of which is due, of course, to your “failure of leadership.”
Few managers in large organizations work in isolation. Without the goodwill of your team, you’re doomed.
I had a relative who was promoted into management on the basis of seniority and detailed knowledge of the work in her department. She had no situational awareness of rivals for the position, nor that her reliance on longtime friends in her department was seen (not unfairly) as favoritism, or weakness. She was undermined right off the bat--scheduling, vacation and work assignments, etc.--and was forced into early retirement within a few months.
Novant Health System...............a good place to DIE.
Novant Health System...............come DIE with us.
Novant Health System...............today is a good day to DIE.Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
Thanks, Mr. Anon. I’d been working on something like these in my head, but had dropped it.
One of the reasons for consolidation in healthcare is that the insurance companies are only forced to do business with the market leader and not with the rest of the hospitals/care providers.Replies: @Art Deco
Since CMS pays for more than 50% of healthcare costs and CMS sets its reimbursement,
Medicare reimbursement accounts for about 30% of the gross revenues of the health-care-and-social-assistance sector. Another 17% is derived from the U.S. Government’s general revenues and distributed to state governments to finance Medicaid; doesn’t go to providers directly.
Unfortunately, most of the big mistakes our dear leaders made occurred early on before much of the data had come in. At some point in mid-2020, Steve noted that the Wuflu was indeed a disease of the old, fat and/or sick. By that point, the leaders were not turning back once they’d tasted the fame, power and adoration of the MSM (see Cuomo).Replies: @SimplePseudonymicHandle, @guest007
so is one’s position that 800k deaths and a 15% increase in the death rates of Americans is not worth the attention of politicians. Is packing a bar more important that avoid 800k deaths and 5 million hospitilizations?
I have opinions, sure, but it's simply not my business, how some business in North Carolina that i do not own makes its staffing decisions. And it is not--properly--the business of bureaucrats in D.C., not the judge down the street.
Ideally we can have the government avoid discriminating on race/ethnicity among its citizens in its public business. But in a free society, people's private business should be ... their business. Regulation against fraud and unsafe practices, pollution--stuff affecting other people. Fine. If the people want it, pass some laws.
But micromanaging everyone's associations is a creeping tyranny. When the government is ordering people whom to bake cakes for, something has gone very, very wrong.Replies: @Art Deco
Or we could just repeal all the “civil rights” laws and return to being a free nation.
Your points were made by Gottfried Dietze and Robert Bork nearly 60 years ago. In the context of the time, their arguments seemed bloodless, but at this point we can see that the legislation was a catalyst for the comprehensive destruction of any sense of free association among the people Glenn Reynolds calls ‘the administrative class’. So you get idiot college deans insisting that evangelical student clubs are ‘discriminating’ if they have a rule that their members be professing evangelicals.
And the judiciary teamed up with skeevy administrative agencies to make color-blind recruitment and promotion in the public sector well-nigh impossible.
The floggings will continue until morale and attitudes improve.
“Novant wouldn’t exist (at least in its present form and scale) absent inflows of Federal fake money.”
Neither would General Motors– but, it is not a state actor, subject to the 14th Amendment’s Equal Protection Clause, either.
GM isn't losing money and the federal government sold off its stake 8 years ago.
I think by 1934 there were fewer than 10 car manufacturers producing in the U.S. Consolidation antedated both large-scale federal expenditure and voluminous regulatory codes.Replies: @D. K., @Reg Cæsar
Go to the next level.
This is just a simple pressure release for the rising white anger the controllers have noticed.
Like a blowoff valve on a turbocharger.
Or a quality lingam massage from an attractive young woman.
Or spending hours reading and commenting here!
In the words of ‘Miss Lisa Fremont’: “Preview of coming attractions . . .”
If that doesn't start getting people off the couch, I don't know what will.Replies: @Polistra
There might not be a more pathetic sight than scared old white men STILL wearing their masks properly into stores. The last remnants of a defeated generation.Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
The healthy, 20-something men I see doing this are worse.
https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/1453799536615464971Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard, @Ghost of Bull Moose
$450k is more than the home equity or positive net worth of most actual US citizens.
If that doesn’t start getting people off the couch, I don’t know what will.
My experience is that generally the doctors and nurses are OK but support staff (on whom I depend to make appointments and take my blood pressure) are horrible.
Neither would General Motors-- but, it is not a state actor, subject to the 14th Amendment's Equal Protection Clause, either.Replies: @Art Deco, @Jim Bob Lassiter
Neither would General Motors–
GM isn’t losing money and the federal government sold off its stake 8 years ago.
I think by 1934 there were fewer than 10 car manufacturers producing in the U.S. Consolidation antedated both large-scale federal expenditure and voluminous regulatory codes.
General Motors would have gone out of business completely, in 2009, absent the government bailout:
***
Congress declined to act, but in December 2008 the Bush administration provided a "bridge loan" to General Motors with the requirement of a revised business plan.[23] It said it needed $4.6 billion in loans within weeks, from the $18 billion it had already requested, and an additional $12 billion in financial support in order to stave off bankruptcy. On February 26, 2009, General Motors announced that its cash reserves were down to $14 billion at the end of 2008. G.M. lost $30.9 billion, or $53.32 a share, in 2008 and spent $19.2 billion of its cash reserves. Mr. Wagoner met with President Obama’s auto task force, and the company said that it could not survive much longer without additional government loans.
On the March 30, 2009, deadline President Barack Obama declined to provide financial aid to General Motors, and requested that General Motors produce credible plans, saying that the company's proposals had avoided tough decisions, and that Chapter 11 bankruptcy appeared the most promising way to reduce its debts, by allowing the courts to compel bondholders and trade unions into settlements.[24] GM Chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner was also forced to resign.[25] GM bondholders rejected the government's first offer, but the unions agreed to the preferential terms.[26] A bondholder debt to equity counteroffer was ignored.[27]
***
Through the Troubled Asset Relief Program the US Treasury invested a total $51 billion into the GM bankruptcy.[93] Until December 10, 2013, the U. S. Treasury recovered $39 billion from selling its GM stake. The final direct cost to the Treasury of the GM bailout was $11[94]-12 billion ($10.5 billion for General Motors and $1.5 billion for former GM financing GMAC, now known as Ally).[95] Local tax incentives amounted to $1.7 billion, most of them in Michigan.[96][97] A study by the Center for Automotive Research found that the GM bailout saved 1.2 million jobs and preserved $34.9 billion in tax revenue.[95]
***
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Chapter_11_reorganization
Novant Health does not receive government funds to bail it out of insolvency, a la the defunct General Motors Corporation, in 2009; Novant Health receives government funds, along with every other such health organization in the United States, because the federal government now controls the healthcare industry in the United States, as a practical matter, through the United States Congress' creation of such programs as Medicare, Medicaid, and the Affordable Care Act (a.k.a. 'Obamacare').Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Art Deco
Including such cities as Winston-Salem NC.
Or “rust”. Or “roust”. Or “oust”.
Or “rut”.
Any positive news for a white guy is great
GM isn't losing money and the federal government sold off its stake 8 years ago.
I think by 1934 there were fewer than 10 car manufacturers producing in the U.S. Consolidation antedated both large-scale federal expenditure and voluminous regulatory codes.Replies: @D. K., @Reg Cæsar
“GM isn’t losing money and the federal government sold off its stake 8 years ago.”
General Motors would have gone out of business completely, in 2009, absent the government bailout:
***
Congress declined to act, but in December 2008 the Bush administration provided a “bridge loan” to General Motors with the requirement of a revised business plan.[23] It said it needed $4.6 billion in loans within weeks, from the $18 billion it had already requested, and an additional $12 billion in financial support in order to stave off bankruptcy. On February 26, 2009, General Motors announced that its cash reserves were down to $14 billion at the end of 2008. G.M. lost $30.9 billion, or $53.32 a share, in 2008 and spent $19.2 billion of its cash reserves. Mr. Wagoner met with President Obama’s auto task force, and the company said that it could not survive much longer without additional government loans.
On the March 30, 2009, deadline President Barack Obama declined to provide financial aid to General Motors, and requested that General Motors produce credible plans, saying that the company’s proposals had avoided tough decisions, and that Chapter 11 bankruptcy appeared the most promising way to reduce its debts, by allowing the courts to compel bondholders and trade unions into settlements.[24] GM Chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner was also forced to resign.[25] GM bondholders rejected the government’s first offer, but the unions agreed to the preferential terms.[26] A bondholder debt to equity counteroffer was ignored.[27]
***
Through the Troubled Asset Relief Program the US Treasury invested a total $51 billion into the GM bankruptcy.[93] Until December 10, 2013, the U. S. Treasury recovered $39 billion from selling its GM stake. The final direct cost to the Treasury of the GM bailout was $11[94]-12 billion ($10.5 billion for General Motors and $1.5 billion for former GM financing GMAC, now known as Ally).[95] Local tax incentives amounted to $1.7 billion, most of them in Michigan.[96][97] A study by the Center for Automotive Research found that the GM bailout saved 1.2 million jobs and preserved $34.9 billion in tax revenue.[95]
***
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Chapter_11_reorganization
Novant Health does not receive government funds to bail it out of insolvency, a la the defunct General Motors Corporation, in 2009; Novant Health receives government funds, along with every other such health organization in the United States, because the federal government now controls the healthcare industry in the United States, as a practical matter, through the United States Congress’ creation of such programs as Medicare, Medicaid, and the Affordable Care Act (a.k.a. ‘Obamacare’).
No, it would have gone through re-organization and its unsecured creditors forced to accept cram-downs. The whole plan was to protect Democratic Party clients.Replies: @Technite78, @D. K.
Just got a diversity vice-president where I work earlier this year. Over the last five months she has made two postings on the company web page for employees and hired number of staff. The new staff are all women of color like herself. Nothing diverse about her hiring practices.
Also Unz.com is now blocked by our firewalls so maybe that’s something.
“But I thought black women work twice as hard?”
No, they only work twice as loud.
https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/1453799536615464971Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard, @Ghost of Bull Moose
They didn’t pull off their staged insurrection, they want to provoke a real one.
The experimental gene therapy “vaccines” and the Plandemic ARE the beginning of the planned genocide, already killing or crippling hundreds of thousands…
GM isn't losing money and the federal government sold off its stake 8 years ago.
I think by 1934 there were fewer than 10 car manufacturers producing in the U.S. Consolidation antedated both large-scale federal expenditure and voluminous regulatory codes.Replies: @D. K., @Reg Cæsar
There are more than that in Japan today.
General Motors would have gone out of business completely, in 2009, absent the government bailout:
***
Congress declined to act, but in December 2008 the Bush administration provided a "bridge loan" to General Motors with the requirement of a revised business plan.[23] It said it needed $4.6 billion in loans within weeks, from the $18 billion it had already requested, and an additional $12 billion in financial support in order to stave off bankruptcy. On February 26, 2009, General Motors announced that its cash reserves were down to $14 billion at the end of 2008. G.M. lost $30.9 billion, or $53.32 a share, in 2008 and spent $19.2 billion of its cash reserves. Mr. Wagoner met with President Obama’s auto task force, and the company said that it could not survive much longer without additional government loans.
On the March 30, 2009, deadline President Barack Obama declined to provide financial aid to General Motors, and requested that General Motors produce credible plans, saying that the company's proposals had avoided tough decisions, and that Chapter 11 bankruptcy appeared the most promising way to reduce its debts, by allowing the courts to compel bondholders and trade unions into settlements.[24] GM Chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner was also forced to resign.[25] GM bondholders rejected the government's first offer, but the unions agreed to the preferential terms.[26] A bondholder debt to equity counteroffer was ignored.[27]
***
Through the Troubled Asset Relief Program the US Treasury invested a total $51 billion into the GM bankruptcy.[93] Until December 10, 2013, the U. S. Treasury recovered $39 billion from selling its GM stake. The final direct cost to the Treasury of the GM bailout was $11[94]-12 billion ($10.5 billion for General Motors and $1.5 billion for former GM financing GMAC, now known as Ally).[95] Local tax incentives amounted to $1.7 billion, most of them in Michigan.[96][97] A study by the Center for Automotive Research found that the GM bailout saved 1.2 million jobs and preserved $34.9 billion in tax revenue.[95]
***
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Chapter_11_reorganization
Novant Health does not receive government funds to bail it out of insolvency, a la the defunct General Motors Corporation, in 2009; Novant Health receives government funds, along with every other such health organization in the United States, because the federal government now controls the healthcare industry in the United States, as a practical matter, through the United States Congress' creation of such programs as Medicare, Medicaid, and the Affordable Care Act (a.k.a. 'Obamacare').Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Art Deco
The one division not bailed out? Saab, in “socialist” Sweden.
“The Swedish state and taxpayers in Sweden will not own car factories.”
–Minister of Industry Maud Olofsson, 2009
“How much do you have in the bank?”
WHOOOSH!!
Based on this survey, the fear of COVID from people in his age group tends to be more similar to much younger people than to much older people.
https://images.app.goo.gl/YfkKsR48kmsiiH687
As for the objective risk independent of his fears, I don’t think the average non-obese 62 year old has much reason to fear the virus. But Sailer seems like he’s been very risk averse for his entire life, and for whatever reasons he has concluded that the clot shot is significantly less dangerous than the virus, at least for himself. I don’t know if he has supported injection mandates or even recommended injections for the average 10/20/40 year old
JimD, this story triggered my sarcasm genes, and I do sarcasm poorly in writing. But here goes:
You mean it’s bloody news that White guys have been discriminated against in labor markets for better jobs, and that White women and Black women have been unfairly favored in labor markets for better jobs? You mean it’s bloody news that that discrimination is a creature of the Federal government, Congress, the Supreme Court, and their parrots in 10,000 larger companies and non-profits throughout the U. S.?
Few managers in large organizations work in isolation. Without the goodwill of your team, you’re doomed.Replies: @JackOH
Paul, much respect for your important observation.
I had a relative who was promoted into management on the basis of seniority and detailed knowledge of the work in her department. She had no situational awareness of rivals for the position, nor that her reliance on longtime friends in her department was seen (not unfairly) as favoritism, or weakness. She was undermined right off the bat–scheduling, vacation and work assignments, etc.–and was forced into early retirement within a few months.
It’s nice that this guy got an impartial judge and sympathetic jury of his peers, but how much longer can that go on given the browning of America? You think there is going to be an increasing trend toward the view that antidiscrimination law applies to white men too? What happens when the judge is a black (excuse me, Black) woman and the jury is made up of NAMs, who are all too happy to stick it to whitey?
Thanks for proving once again :
1. Some groups have far lower standards for sexual partners.
2. Some groups don’t have a strong “theory of mind” for others.
General Motors would have gone out of business completely, in 2009, absent the government bailout:
***
Congress declined to act, but in December 2008 the Bush administration provided a "bridge loan" to General Motors with the requirement of a revised business plan.[23] It said it needed $4.6 billion in loans within weeks, from the $18 billion it had already requested, and an additional $12 billion in financial support in order to stave off bankruptcy. On February 26, 2009, General Motors announced that its cash reserves were down to $14 billion at the end of 2008. G.M. lost $30.9 billion, or $53.32 a share, in 2008 and spent $19.2 billion of its cash reserves. Mr. Wagoner met with President Obama’s auto task force, and the company said that it could not survive much longer without additional government loans.
On the March 30, 2009, deadline President Barack Obama declined to provide financial aid to General Motors, and requested that General Motors produce credible plans, saying that the company's proposals had avoided tough decisions, and that Chapter 11 bankruptcy appeared the most promising way to reduce its debts, by allowing the courts to compel bondholders and trade unions into settlements.[24] GM Chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner was also forced to resign.[25] GM bondholders rejected the government's first offer, but the unions agreed to the preferential terms.[26] A bondholder debt to equity counteroffer was ignored.[27]
***
Through the Troubled Asset Relief Program the US Treasury invested a total $51 billion into the GM bankruptcy.[93] Until December 10, 2013, the U. S. Treasury recovered $39 billion from selling its GM stake. The final direct cost to the Treasury of the GM bailout was $11[94]-12 billion ($10.5 billion for General Motors and $1.5 billion for former GM financing GMAC, now known as Ally).[95] Local tax incentives amounted to $1.7 billion, most of them in Michigan.[96][97] A study by the Center for Automotive Research found that the GM bailout saved 1.2 million jobs and preserved $34.9 billion in tax revenue.[95]
***
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Chapter_11_reorganization
Novant Health does not receive government funds to bail it out of insolvency, a la the defunct General Motors Corporation, in 2009; Novant Health receives government funds, along with every other such health organization in the United States, because the federal government now controls the healthcare industry in the United States, as a practical matter, through the United States Congress' creation of such programs as Medicare, Medicaid, and the Affordable Care Act (a.k.a. 'Obamacare').Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Art Deco
General Motors would have gone out of business completely, in 2009, absent the government bailout:
No, it would have gone through re-organization and its unsecured creditors forced to accept cram-downs. The whole plan was to protect Democratic Party clients.
March 9, 2012Would Americans be better off if General Motors and Chrysler had simply gone bankrupt, without benefit of taxpayer assistance?For the Republican presidential candidates Newt Gingrich, Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum, the answer is emphatically yes. They’ve outdone one another denouncing the auto bailout. Mr. Romney told The Detroit News that the government’s rescue of the American auto companies amounted to “crony capitalism on a grand scale” and has argued that G.M. should have gone through a Chapter 11 bankruptcy without taxpayer assistance. According to Mr. Santorum, “the government should not be involved in bailouts, period.” Mr. Gingrich called the auto industry rescue “a violation of 200 years of bankruptcy law.”Unlike a science experiment, in which variables can be changed and the experiment repeated, we can’t turn back the clock, let the auto companies go bankrupt and compare the results with what we have today, which is an American auto industry that is, by nearly all measures, healthier than it’s been in many years. G.M. and Chrysler, not to mention Ford, which didn’t get taxpayer money but benefited indirectly, are profitable, hiring more workers, competing more effectively, gaining market share and building better cars and trucks. But we do have a contemporaneous case study by which to measure the auto bailout: Lehman Brothers, which remains the largest bankruptcy ever measured by assets.This week the once venerable investment bank emerged from three and a half years in Chapter 11. Gone, along with the gleaming Midtown Manhattan tower now branded with the Barclays logo, are most of the more than 25,000 jobs once on the firm’s payroll and nearly all the over $600 billion in assets that once swelled its balance sheet. Lehman still owns a large portfolio of troubled real estate assets and derivative securities. Its only reason for existence is to manage those assets to pay off its remaining creditors, whose claims total more than $300 billion. It remains mired in contentious litigation.Lehman’s bankruptcy was untainted by any taxpayer money or government rescue operation. After efforts to arrange a private rescue failed, the Treasury Department, Federal Reserve and White House decided not to rescue it, but instead to try to limit the consequences by putting “foam on the runway,” as the New York Federal Reserve chief at the time, Timothy F. Geithner, put it. We all know the results: a near-catastrophic collapse of investor confidence, plunging markets and the Great Recession.Even so, a case can be made that Lehman fared much better than could have been expected for either G.M. or Chrysler. Within days of Lehman’s collapse, Barclays stepped in and bought its core investment banking unit. That gave Lehman the cash to keep managing the remaining assets, and it subsequently was able to borrow what is known as debtor-in-possession financing to keep operating through the Chapter 11 process. Barclays kept about 10,000 Lehman Brothers employees.None of those options were available to G.M. or Chrysler. Months into the financial crisis, rapidly running out of cash, the auto companies couldn’t find anyone interested in buying their assets. Even if they could, no banks were in a position to lend to would-be acquirers, nor would they provide the financing needed to keep the automakers operating during the Chapter 11 process. When G.M. filed for bankruptcy in June 2009, a Federal District Court ruled that the Treasury was the only potential source for the $15 billion in DIP financing G.M. needed to continue operating. The court also oversaw and approved G.M.’s emergence from bankruptcy, contrary to Mr. Gingrich’s contention that G.M.’s reorganization was a “violation” of bankruptcy law.I spoke this week to Harvey R. Miller, a partner at Weil, Gotschal & Manges in New York and a prominent bankruptcy expert who advised both Lehman and G.M. The idea that General Motors or Chrysler could have survived a Chapter 11 filing without government support “was very unlikely,” he told me. “Without the debtor-in-possession financing, they would have had to shut down,” he said. “The court ruled there was no possibility for DIP financing except from the government. The Republican candidates are ignoring this. I’ve watched the debates. The misstatements are so shocking.” (Mr. Miller said he wasn’t identified with either political party.)Besides the fact that no one would provide the financing to keep the companies running, Mr. Miller said, “every survey ended with the conclusion that few, if any, people would buy a vehicle from a company that was in Chapter 11,” unless there were some guarantee. “A car or truck is the second-largest investment an American family makes after the purchase of a home,” he said. “Buyers factor in what will happen to the warranty, maintenance and the resale value. They were going to be very reluctant to buy a car from a company whose future was in serious doubt.” Even with government backing, rivals used G.M.’s brief 43 days in Chapter 11 — a far shorter period than Lehman’s — to try to grab market share.Mr. Miller said that an analogy to the kind of Chapter 11 bankruptcy Mr. Romney has called for, one unassisted by taxpayer money, might come from Braniff Airways, which filed for bankruptcy in 1982. Passengers were already shunning the airline as rumors of bankruptcy circulated. Once it filed, much of its fleet was grounded. It soon ran out of the cash needed to keep operating in bankruptcy. The airline was liquidated.It’s hard to measure what would have been the consequences if G.M. and Chrysler had been forced to liquidate. But we know that policymakers seriously underestimated the unforeseen reactions and dire results of Lehman’s bankruptcy filing. Rescuing Lehman wouldn’t have addressed the deeper causes of the crisis, like the housing and mortgage bubbles. Still, it might have prevented the near panic that ensued. It’s hard to find anyone today who argues that letting Lehman Brothers fail was actually a good thing, although Mr. Santorum and Mr. Gingrich have both said they wouldn’t have bailed it out. Mr. Miller says he believes the consequences of a G.M. and Chrysler failure would have been potentially catastrophic.“It was clear in December of 2008, if G.M. and Chrysler went under, the effects would course through the entire automotive supply business,” he said. “Dana and Delphi had already failed. Many others were on the brink. The estimate we saw was that in excess of 500,000 jobs would be lost. Michigan, Indiana, Ohio and Illinois would have been devastated. It was a compelling factual situation. President Bush took a look at this and said, ‘I can’t let this happen on my watch.’ ”Even though Mr. Bush is an avowed free-market champion, he approved emergency loans of $17.4 billion to G.M. and Chrysler, financed by the same Troubled Asset Relief Program legislation that rescued the banks, which gave the automakers enough cash to operate until the Obama administration could fashion a longer-term plan. The Republican candidates have repudiated Mr. Bush’s action in the name of ideological consistency, “but sometimes circumstances get in the way of philosophy,” he told a national convention of auto dealers last month. “I would make the same decision again."However healthy the American auto industry is today, the idea of government bailouts and continued ownership of private companies remain anathema to a large swath of the American public, an audience the Republican candidates are surely aware of. Last month a Gallup poll asked, “Do you approve of the auto bailout?” A majority, 51 percent, said no; 44 percent said yes. Among Republicans, 73 percent said they disapproved of it.***https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/10/business/when-debating-the-auto-bailout-consider-lehmans-fate.htmlI have not argued, supra, about whether the government's bailout of General Motors, inter alia, was altogether proper, or was altogether properly carried out by the Bush (II) and Obama Administrations. I merely have stated my professionally informed opinion, as an erstwhile attorney with an M.B.A. in Management & Organization (and an elder brother who toiled in the Renaissance Center, for a dozen years, as a GM trial attorney), that the company would have been liquidated, rather than reorganized, absent the federal government's unprecedented bailout, due to a lack of operating capital, combined with an existing financial-sector meltdown.***The 2009 General Motors Chapter 11 sale of the assets of automobile manufacturer General Motors and some of its subsidiaries was implemented through Chapter 11, Title 11, United States Code in the United States bankruptcy court for the Southern District of New York. The United States government-endorsed sale enabled the NGMCO Inc.[1] ("New GM") to purchase the continuing operational assets of the old GM.[2][3][4] Normal operations, including employee compensation, warranties, and other customer services were uninterrupted during the bankruptcy proceedings.[2] Operations outside of the United States were not included in the court filing.[2]The company received $33 billion in debtor-in-possession financing to complete the process.[5] GM filed for Chapter 11 reorganization in the Manhattan New York federal bankruptcy court on June 1, 2009, at approximately 8:00 am EDT. June 1, 2009, was the deadline to supply an acceptable viability plan to the U.S. Treasury. The filing reported US$82.29 billion in assets and US$172.81 billion in debt.[6][7][8][9][10]After the Chapter 11 filing, effective Monday, June 8, 2009, GM was removed from the Dow Jones Industrial Average and replaced by Cisco Systems. From Tuesday June 2, old GM stock has traded Over the Counter (Pink Sheets/OTCBB), initially under the symbol GMGMQ[11] and subsequently under the symbol MTLQQ.On July 10, 2009, a new entity completed the purchase of continuing operations, assets and trademarks of GM as a part of the 'pre-packaged' Chapter 11 reorganization.[12][13] As ranked by total assets, GM's bankruptcy marks one of the largest corporate Chapter 11 bankruptcies in U.S. history. The Chapter 11 filing was the fourth-largest in U.S. history, following Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc., Washington Mutual and WorldCom Inc.[14] A new entity with the backing of the United States Treasury was formed to acquire profitable assets, under section 363 of the Bankruptcy Code, with the new company planning to issue an initial public offering (IPO) of stock in 2010.[15] The remaining pre-petition creditors claims are paid from the former corporation's assets.[12][15]***https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Chapter_11_reorganizationReplies: @Art Deco
No, it would have gone through re-organization and its unsecured creditors forced to accept cram-downs. The whole plan was to protect Democratic Party clients.Replies: @Technite78, @D. K.
i.e. Unions and their large pension funds, who donate generously to the Democratic Party.
WHOOOSH!!Replies: @Truth
Oh, does that mean Madoff swept his savings away?
1. Some groups have far lower standards for sexual partners.
2. Some groups don't have a strong "theory of mind" for others.Replies: @Truth
Hey Bro.
Some years ago, another poster, who shall remain nameless, started a social experiment upon the mind of the white nationalist, based upon a thesis he had, that I thought was preposterous at first, but have grown to accept that it is probably true.
OK your turn to take part. The video below features two, generally considered attractive, successful and famous people of different gender and race, which one would you choose for a night of amorous action?
No, it would have gone through re-organization and its unsecured creditors forced to accept cram-downs. The whole plan was to protect Democratic Party clients.Replies: @Technite78, @D. K.
“No, it would have gone through re-organization and its unsecured creditors forced to accept cram-downs. The whole plan was to protect Democratic Party clients.”
***
By James B. Stewart
March 9, 2012
Would Americans be better off if General Motors and Chrysler had simply gone bankrupt, without benefit of taxpayer assistance?
For the Republican presidential candidates Newt Gingrich, Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum, the answer is emphatically yes. They’ve outdone one another denouncing the auto bailout. Mr. Romney told The Detroit News that the government’s rescue of the American auto companies amounted to “crony capitalism on a grand scale” and has argued that G.M. should have gone through a Chapter 11 bankruptcy without taxpayer assistance. According to Mr. Santorum, “the government should not be involved in bailouts, period.” Mr. Gingrich called the auto industry rescue “a violation of 200 years of bankruptcy law.”
Unlike a science experiment, in which variables can be changed and the experiment repeated, we can’t turn back the clock, let the auto companies go bankrupt and compare the results with what we have today, which is an American auto industry that is, by nearly all measures, healthier than it’s been in many years. G.M. and Chrysler, not to mention Ford, which didn’t get taxpayer money but benefited indirectly, are profitable, hiring more workers, competing more effectively, gaining market share and building better cars and trucks. But we do have a contemporaneous case study by which to measure the auto bailout: Lehman Brothers, which remains the largest bankruptcy ever measured by assets.
This week the once venerable investment bank emerged from three and a half years in Chapter 11. Gone, along with the gleaming Midtown Manhattan tower now branded with the Barclays logo, are most of the more than 25,000 jobs once on the firm’s payroll and nearly all the over $600 billion in assets that once swelled its balance sheet. Lehman still owns a large portfolio of troubled real estate assets and derivative securities. Its only reason for existence is to manage those assets to pay off its remaining creditors, whose claims total more than $300 billion. It remains mired in contentious litigation.
Lehman’s bankruptcy was untainted by any taxpayer money or government rescue operation. After efforts to arrange a private rescue failed, the Treasury Department, Federal Reserve and White House decided not to rescue it, but instead to try to limit the consequences by putting “foam on the runway,” as the New York Federal Reserve chief at the time, Timothy F. Geithner, put it. We all know the results: a near-catastrophic collapse of investor confidence, plunging markets and the Great Recession.
Even so, a case can be made that Lehman fared much better than could have been expected for either G.M. or Chrysler. Within days of Lehman’s collapse, Barclays stepped in and bought its core investment banking unit. That gave Lehman the cash to keep managing the remaining assets, and it subsequently was able to borrow what is known as debtor-in-possession financing to keep operating through the Chapter 11 process. Barclays kept about 10,000 Lehman Brothers employees.
None of those options were available to G.M. or Chrysler. Months into the financial crisis, rapidly running out of cash, the auto companies couldn’t find anyone interested in buying their assets. Even if they could, no banks were in a position to lend to would-be acquirers, nor would they provide the financing needed to keep the automakers operating during the Chapter 11 process. When G.M. filed for bankruptcy in June 2009, a Federal District Court ruled that the Treasury was the only potential source for the $15 billion in DIP financing G.M. needed to continue operating. The court also oversaw and approved G.M.’s emergence from bankruptcy, contrary to Mr. Gingrich’s contention that G.M.’s reorganization was a “violation” of bankruptcy law.
I spoke this week to Harvey R. Miller, a partner at Weil, Gotschal & Manges in New York and a prominent bankruptcy expert who advised both Lehman and G.M. The idea that General Motors or Chrysler could have survived a Chapter 11 filing without government support “was very unlikely,” he told me. “Without the debtor-in-possession financing, they would have had to shut down,” he said. “The court ruled there was no possibility for DIP financing except from the government. The Republican candidates are ignoring this. I’ve watched the debates. The misstatements are so shocking.” (Mr. Miller said he wasn’t identified with either political party.)
Besides the fact that no one would provide the financing to keep the companies running, Mr. Miller said, “every survey ended with the conclusion that few, if any, people would buy a vehicle from a company that was in Chapter 11,” unless there were some guarantee. “A car or truck is the second-largest investment an American family makes after the purchase of a home,” he said. “Buyers factor in what will happen to the warranty, maintenance and the resale value. They were going to be very reluctant to buy a car from a company whose future was in serious doubt.” Even with government backing, rivals used G.M.’s brief 43 days in Chapter 11 — a far shorter period than Lehman’s — to try to grab market share.
Mr. Miller said that an analogy to the kind of Chapter 11 bankruptcy Mr. Romney has called for, one unassisted by taxpayer money, might come from Braniff Airways, which filed for bankruptcy in 1982. Passengers were already shunning the airline as rumors of bankruptcy circulated. Once it filed, much of its fleet was grounded. It soon ran out of the cash needed to keep operating in bankruptcy. The airline was liquidated.
It’s hard to measure what would have been the consequences if G.M. and Chrysler had been forced to liquidate. But we know that policymakers seriously underestimated the unforeseen reactions and dire results of Lehman’s bankruptcy filing. Rescuing Lehman wouldn’t have addressed the deeper causes of the crisis, like the housing and mortgage bubbles. Still, it might have prevented the near panic that ensued. It’s hard to find anyone today who argues that letting Lehman Brothers fail was actually a good thing, although Mr. Santorum and Mr. Gingrich have both said they wouldn’t have bailed it out. Mr. Miller says he believes the consequences of a G.M. and Chrysler failure would have been potentially catastrophic.
“It was clear in December of 2008, if G.M. and Chrysler went under, the effects would course through the entire automotive supply business,” he said. “Dana and Delphi had already failed. Many others were on the brink. The estimate we saw was that in excess of 500,000 jobs would be lost. Michigan, Indiana, Ohio and Illinois would have been devastated. It was a compelling factual situation. President Bush took a look at this and said, ‘I can’t let this happen on my watch.’ ”
Even though Mr. Bush is an avowed free-market champion, he approved emergency loans of $17.4 billion to G.M. and Chrysler, financed by the same Troubled Asset Relief Program legislation that rescued the banks, which gave the automakers enough cash to operate until the Obama administration could fashion a longer-term plan. The Republican candidates have repudiated Mr. Bush’s action in the name of ideological consistency, “but sometimes circumstances get in the way of philosophy,” he told a national convention of auto dealers last month. “I would make the same decision again.”
However healthy the American auto industry is today, the idea of government bailouts and continued ownership of private companies remain anathema to a large swath of the American public, an audience the Republican candidates are surely aware of. Last month a Gallup poll asked, “Do you approve of the auto bailout?” A majority, 51 percent, said no; 44 percent said yes. Among Republicans, 73 percent said they disapproved of it.
***
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/10/business/when-debating-the-auto-bailout-consider-lehmans-fate.html
I have not argued, supra, about whether the government’s bailout of General Motors, inter alia, was altogether proper, or was altogether properly carried out by the Bush (II) and Obama Administrations. I merely have stated my professionally informed opinion, as an erstwhile attorney with an M.B.A. in Management & Organization (and an elder brother who toiled in the Renaissance Center, for a dozen years, as a GM trial attorney), that the company would have been liquidated, rather than reorganized, absent the federal government’s unprecedented bailout, due to a lack of operating capital, combined with an existing financial-sector meltdown.
***
The 2009 General Motors Chapter 11 sale of the assets of automobile manufacturer General Motors and some of its subsidiaries was implemented through Chapter 11, Title 11, United States Code in the United States bankruptcy court for the Southern District of New York. The United States government-endorsed sale enabled the NGMCO Inc.[1] (“New GM”) to purchase the continuing operational assets of the old GM.[2][3][4] Normal operations, including employee compensation, warranties, and other customer services were uninterrupted during the bankruptcy proceedings.[2] Operations outside of the United States were not included in the court filing.[2]
The company received $33 billion in debtor-in-possession financing to complete the process.[5] GM filed for Chapter 11 reorganization in the Manhattan New York federal bankruptcy court on June 1, 2009, at approximately 8:00 am EDT. June 1, 2009, was the deadline to supply an acceptable viability plan to the U.S. Treasury. The filing reported US$82.29 billion in assets and US$172.81 billion in debt.[6][7][8][9][10]
After the Chapter 11 filing, effective Monday, June 8, 2009, GM was removed from the Dow Jones Industrial Average and replaced by Cisco Systems. From Tuesday June 2, old GM stock has traded Over the Counter (Pink Sheets/OTCBB), initially under the symbol GMGMQ[11] and subsequently under the symbol MTLQQ.
On July 10, 2009, a new entity completed the purchase of continuing operations, assets and trademarks of GM as a part of the ‘pre-packaged’ Chapter 11 reorganization.[12][13] As ranked by total assets, GM’s bankruptcy marks one of the largest corporate Chapter 11 bankruptcies in U.S. history. The Chapter 11 filing was the fourth-largest in U.S. history, following Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc., Washington Mutual and WorldCom Inc.[14] A new entity with the backing of the United States Treasury was formed to acquire profitable assets, under section 363 of the Bankruptcy Code, with the new company planning to issue an initial public offering (IPO) of stock in 2010.[15] The remaining pre-petition creditors claims are paid from the former corporation’s assets.[12][15]
***
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Chapter_11_reorganization
March 9, 2012Would Americans be better off if General Motors and Chrysler had simply gone bankrupt, without benefit of taxpayer assistance?For the Republican presidential candidates Newt Gingrich, Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum, the answer is emphatically yes. They’ve outdone one another denouncing the auto bailout. Mr. Romney told The Detroit News that the government’s rescue of the American auto companies amounted to “crony capitalism on a grand scale” and has argued that G.M. should have gone through a Chapter 11 bankruptcy without taxpayer assistance. According to Mr. Santorum, “the government should not be involved in bailouts, period.” Mr. Gingrich called the auto industry rescue “a violation of 200 years of bankruptcy law.”Unlike a science experiment, in which variables can be changed and the experiment repeated, we can’t turn back the clock, let the auto companies go bankrupt and compare the results with what we have today, which is an American auto industry that is, by nearly all measures, healthier than it’s been in many years. G.M. and Chrysler, not to mention Ford, which didn’t get taxpayer money but benefited indirectly, are profitable, hiring more workers, competing more effectively, gaining market share and building better cars and trucks. But we do have a contemporaneous case study by which to measure the auto bailout: Lehman Brothers, which remains the largest bankruptcy ever measured by assets.This week the once venerable investment bank emerged from three and a half years in Chapter 11. Gone, along with the gleaming Midtown Manhattan tower now branded with the Barclays logo, are most of the more than 25,000 jobs once on the firm’s payroll and nearly all the over $600 billion in assets that once swelled its balance sheet. Lehman still owns a large portfolio of troubled real estate assets and derivative securities. Its only reason for existence is to manage those assets to pay off its remaining creditors, whose claims total more than $300 billion. It remains mired in contentious litigation.Lehman’s bankruptcy was untainted by any taxpayer money or government rescue operation. After efforts to arrange a private rescue failed, the Treasury Department, Federal Reserve and White House decided not to rescue it, but instead to try to limit the consequences by putting “foam on the runway,” as the New York Federal Reserve chief at the time, Timothy F. Geithner, put it. We all know the results: a near-catastrophic collapse of investor confidence, plunging markets and the Great Recession.Even so, a case can be made that Lehman fared much better than could have been expected for either G.M. or Chrysler. Within days of Lehman’s collapse, Barclays stepped in and bought its core investment banking unit. That gave Lehman the cash to keep managing the remaining assets, and it subsequently was able to borrow what is known as debtor-in-possession financing to keep operating through the Chapter 11 process. Barclays kept about 10,000 Lehman Brothers employees.None of those options were available to G.M. or Chrysler. Months into the financial crisis, rapidly running out of cash, the auto companies couldn’t find anyone interested in buying their assets. Even if they could, no banks were in a position to lend to would-be acquirers, nor would they provide the financing needed to keep the automakers operating during the Chapter 11 process. When G.M. filed for bankruptcy in June 2009, a Federal District Court ruled that the Treasury was the only potential source for the $15 billion in DIP financing G.M. needed to continue operating. The court also oversaw and approved G.M.’s emergence from bankruptcy, contrary to Mr. Gingrich’s contention that G.M.’s reorganization was a “violation” of bankruptcy law.I spoke this week to Harvey R. Miller, a partner at Weil, Gotschal & Manges in New York and a prominent bankruptcy expert who advised both Lehman and G.M. The idea that General Motors or Chrysler could have survived a Chapter 11 filing without government support “was very unlikely,” he told me. “Without the debtor-in-possession financing, they would have had to shut down,” he said. “The court ruled there was no possibility for DIP financing except from the government. The Republican candidates are ignoring this. I’ve watched the debates. The misstatements are so shocking.” (Mr. Miller said he wasn’t identified with either political party.)Besides the fact that no one would provide the financing to keep the companies running, Mr. Miller said, “every survey ended with the conclusion that few, if any, people would buy a vehicle from a company that was in Chapter 11,” unless there were some guarantee. “A car or truck is the second-largest investment an American family makes after the purchase of a home,” he said. “Buyers factor in what will happen to the warranty, maintenance and the resale value. They were going to be very reluctant to buy a car from a company whose future was in serious doubt.” Even with government backing, rivals used G.M.’s brief 43 days in Chapter 11 — a far shorter period than Lehman’s — to try to grab market share.Mr. Miller said that an analogy to the kind of Chapter 11 bankruptcy Mr. Romney has called for, one unassisted by taxpayer money, might come from Braniff Airways, which filed for bankruptcy in 1982. Passengers were already shunning the airline as rumors of bankruptcy circulated. Once it filed, much of its fleet was grounded. It soon ran out of the cash needed to keep operating in bankruptcy. The airline was liquidated.It’s hard to measure what would have been the consequences if G.M. and Chrysler had been forced to liquidate. But we know that policymakers seriously underestimated the unforeseen reactions and dire results of Lehman’s bankruptcy filing. Rescuing Lehman wouldn’t have addressed the deeper causes of the crisis, like the housing and mortgage bubbles. Still, it might have prevented the near panic that ensued. It’s hard to find anyone today who argues that letting Lehman Brothers fail was actually a good thing, although Mr. Santorum and Mr. Gingrich have both said they wouldn’t have bailed it out. Mr. Miller says he believes the consequences of a G.M. and Chrysler failure would have been potentially catastrophic.“It was clear in December of 2008, if G.M. and Chrysler went under, the effects would course through the entire automotive supply business,” he said. “Dana and Delphi had already failed. Many others were on the brink. The estimate we saw was that in excess of 500,000 jobs would be lost. Michigan, Indiana, Ohio and Illinois would have been devastated. It was a compelling factual situation. President Bush took a look at this and said, ‘I can’t let this happen on my watch.’ ”Even though Mr. Bush is an avowed free-market champion, he approved emergency loans of $17.4 billion to G.M. and Chrysler, financed by the same Troubled Asset Relief Program legislation that rescued the banks, which gave the automakers enough cash to operate until the Obama administration could fashion a longer-term plan. The Republican candidates have repudiated Mr. Bush’s action in the name of ideological consistency, “but sometimes circumstances get in the way of philosophy,” he told a national convention of auto dealers last month. “I would make the same decision again."However healthy the American auto industry is today, the idea of government bailouts and continued ownership of private companies remain anathema to a large swath of the American public, an audience the Republican candidates are surely aware of. Last month a Gallup poll asked, “Do you approve of the auto bailout?” A majority, 51 percent, said no; 44 percent said yes. Among Republicans, 73 percent said they disapproved of it.***https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/10/business/when-debating-the-auto-bailout-consider-lehmans-fate.htmlI have not argued, supra, about whether the government's bailout of General Motors, inter alia, was altogether proper, or was altogether properly carried out by the Bush (II) and Obama Administrations. I merely have stated my professionally informed opinion, as an erstwhile attorney with an M.B.A. in Management & Organization (and an elder brother who toiled in the Renaissance Center, for a dozen years, as a GM trial attorney), that the company would have been liquidated, rather than reorganized, absent the federal government's unprecedented bailout, due to a lack of operating capital, combined with an existing financial-sector meltdown.***The 2009 General Motors Chapter 11 sale of the assets of automobile manufacturer General Motors and some of its subsidiaries was implemented through Chapter 11, Title 11, United States Code in the United States bankruptcy court for the Southern District of New York. The United States government-endorsed sale enabled the NGMCO Inc.[1] ("New GM") to purchase the continuing operational assets of the old GM.[2][3][4] Normal operations, including employee compensation, warranties, and other customer services were uninterrupted during the bankruptcy proceedings.[2] Operations outside of the United States were not included in the court filing.[2]The company received $33 billion in debtor-in-possession financing to complete the process.[5] GM filed for Chapter 11 reorganization in the Manhattan New York federal bankruptcy court on June 1, 2009, at approximately 8:00 am EDT. June 1, 2009, was the deadline to supply an acceptable viability plan to the U.S. Treasury. The filing reported US$82.29 billion in assets and US$172.81 billion in debt.[6][7][8][9][10]After the Chapter 11 filing, effective Monday, June 8, 2009, GM was removed from the Dow Jones Industrial Average and replaced by Cisco Systems. From Tuesday June 2, old GM stock has traded Over the Counter (Pink Sheets/OTCBB), initially under the symbol GMGMQ[11] and subsequently under the symbol MTLQQ.On July 10, 2009, a new entity completed the purchase of continuing operations, assets and trademarks of GM as a part of the 'pre-packaged' Chapter 11 reorganization.[12][13] As ranked by total assets, GM's bankruptcy marks one of the largest corporate Chapter 11 bankruptcies in U.S. history. The Chapter 11 filing was the fourth-largest in U.S. history, following Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc., Washington Mutual and WorldCom Inc.[14] A new entity with the backing of the United States Treasury was formed to acquire profitable assets, under section 363 of the Bankruptcy Code, with the new company planning to issue an initial public offering (IPO) of stock in 2010.[15] The remaining pre-petition creditors claims are paid from the former corporation's assets.[12][15]***https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Chapter_11_reorganizationReplies: @Art Deco
Not buying.
When it filed for bankruptcy protection, on June 1, 2009, General Motors had assets of $82.29 billion, and debts of $172.81 billion. After about $12 billion in combined losses, for 2005 and 2006, it lost a staggering $38.7 billion, in 2007 alone! Then, in 2008, when the overall economy imploded, thanks to Wall Street, GM sales fell an additional 45%! At year's end, GM was down to $14 billion in cash, after having spent $19.2 billion of its cash reserves during the course of 2008.
Who would have lent GM the tens of billions of dollars it needed to continue in operation, throughout a traditional bankruptcy reorganization, absent the government intervention, Artie?
https://money.cnn.com/news/specials/storysupplement/bankbailout/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubled_Asset_Relief_Program#ParticipantsReplies: @Art Deco
Everything that can be invented has been invented.
Charles H. Duell, Commissioner of US Patent Office (1899)
“Not buying.”
When it filed for bankruptcy protection, on June 1, 2009, General Motors had assets of $82.29 billion, and debts of $172.81 billion. After about $12 billion in combined losses, for 2005 and 2006, it lost a staggering $38.7 billion, in 2007 alone! Then, in 2008, when the overall economy imploded, thanks to Wall Street, GM sales fell an additional 45%! At year’s end, GM was down to $14 billion in cash, after having spent $19.2 billion of its cash reserves during the course of 2008.
Who would have lent GM the tens of billions of dollars it needed to continue in operation, throughout a traditional bankruptcy reorganization, absent the government intervention, Artie?
https://money.cnn.com/news/specials/storysupplement/bankbailout/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubled_Asset_Relief_Program#Participants
Both Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley secured private financing at that time.
We're talking about a business that returned to profitability 8 years ago and which had and has immense productive capacity.Replies: @D. K., @Johann Ricke
If that doesn't start getting people off the couch, I don't know what will.Replies: @Polistra
Nothing will. St. Jude comes to mind here. Hope you own property, because it’s a decent inflation hedge. Few things are though. Fun to watch! People think their houses are gaining value, but it’s really the dollar losing value.
I really thought remaining mobile was the way to go in our globalist future.
Boy was I wrong!
I'm looking at cheap houses I can buy for cash in red states, or 2 or 3 acres of land I can toss a $30k yurt on.
WHOOOSH!!
Neither would General Motors-- but, it is not a state actor, subject to the 14th Amendment's Equal Protection Clause, either.Replies: @Art Deco, @Jim Bob Lassiter
Quit dissembling. You know good and Goddamn well that the federal government has been using the doctrine of withholding federal funds (confiscated from the citizenry) as a cudgel against states and businesses since The New Deal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#AdoptionReplies: @Jim Bob Lassiter
What the fuck does that contention of yours have to do with either this Title VII case between private parties for wrongful termination, based upon race and sex, or the wholly unrelated 14th Amendment?
P.S. The “federal funds (confiscated from the citizenry)” are otherwise known as “income-tax receipts.” For those, you are welcome to blame (Republican) President William Howard Taft:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Adoption
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#AdoptionReplies: @Jim Bob Lassiter
I have no idea why you would inject American system partisan labeling (past, present or future) into this “conversation”. It is absolutely meaningless other than being of some general instructional value about the slippery (like a cum soaked lawyer) nature of labels, ideology, and the real power agendas behind the curtain. Good riddance to you.
When it filed for bankruptcy protection, on June 1, 2009, General Motors had assets of $82.29 billion, and debts of $172.81 billion. After about $12 billion in combined losses, for 2005 and 2006, it lost a staggering $38.7 billion, in 2007 alone! Then, in 2008, when the overall economy imploded, thanks to Wall Street, GM sales fell an additional 45%! At year's end, GM was down to $14 billion in cash, after having spent $19.2 billion of its cash reserves during the course of 2008.
Who would have lent GM the tens of billions of dollars it needed to continue in operation, throughout a traditional bankruptcy reorganization, absent the government intervention, Artie?
https://money.cnn.com/news/specials/storysupplement/bankbailout/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubled_Asset_Relief_Program#ParticipantsReplies: @Art Deco
Who would have lent GM the tens of billions of dollars it needed to continue in operation, throughout a traditional bankruptcy reorganization, absent the government intervention, Artie?
Both Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley secured private financing at that time.
We’re talking about a business that returned to profitability 8 years ago and which had and has immense productive capacity.
Both Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley secured private financing at that time.
We're talking about a business that returned to profitability 8 years ago and which had and has immense productive capacity.Replies: @D. K., @Johann Ricke
Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley each found it necessary to borrow $10 billion from the federal government, through the same TARP program from which General Motors borrowed! It took tens of billions of dollars of government support just to get GM through a brief, pre-packaged bankruptcy that was fully supported by the United States Treasury Department. The notion that any private financier, during the financial meltdown of 2008 et seq., was prepared to invest tens of billions of dollars in an automobile manufacturer that was in the financial circumstances that GM found itself in, during that period of general economic collapse– not for a brief, pre-packaged bankruptcy that was fully supported by the United States Treasury Department, but for a much-longer, standard reorganization through bankruptcy– is pure fantasy. As it was, the federal government took over a $10 billion loss on its majority ownership of the new General Motors Company, which had replaced the old General Motors Corporation. The notion that GM’s subsequent profitability proves that it would have survived, absent government intervention in 2008 et seq., is likewise pure fantasy.
They didn't. The funds were shoved down the throat of the major universal banks and securities firms. It was smaller firms that actually applied for the funds. All of this was reported publicly at the time.
Get treatment for your acute venereal disease, Jimmy Bob, and stop drinking that homemade hooch. The combination is killing you.
Sadly, no.
I really thought remaining mobile was the way to go in our globalist future.
Boy was I wrong!
I’m looking at cheap houses I can buy for cash in red states, or 2 or 3 acres of land I can toss a $30k yurt on.
Both Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley secured private financing at that time.
We're talking about a business that returned to profitability 8 years ago and which had and has immense productive capacity.Replies: @D. K., @Johann Ricke
What’s noteworthy about Dubya is the way he turned a liquidity problem at Lehman into global economic catastrophe. Which in turn gave the nation an Obama presidency and Obamacare. Between Dubya’s incompetence and his fawning public comments about Obama, it’s clear that he turned out to be merely the least of three evils vis-a-vis Gore and Kerry. A conservative has to to ask – did Dubya have to be so evil?
Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley each found it necessary to borrow $10 billion from the federal government,
They didn’t. The funds were shoved down the throat of the major universal banks and securities firms. It was smaller firms that actually applied for the funds. All of this was reported publicly at the time.