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Gun Homicides by Race by State
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Adapted by me from CNN in 2018, these are gun homicide victimization rates based on CDC data summarizing death certificates from 2008-2016. (These are not perpetration rates.)

Firearm homicide death rates, by race: 2008-2016

State White Black Ratio
United States 2.1 29.1 14
Alaska 3.2 12.3 4
New Mexico 4.3 18.4 4
Texas 3.4 18.5 5
Arizona 3.6 20.4 6
West Virginia 3.9 22.3 6
Mississippi 4.8 28.1 6
South Carolina 3.8 24.4 6
Washington 1.7 12.1 7
Nevada 3.2 23.0 7
North Carolina 2.9 21.2 7
Alabama 4.5 33.0 7
Georgia 2.8 20.5 7
Kentucky 3.5 26.2 8
Arkansas 4.4 33.4 8
Oregon 1.7 13.5 8
Oklahoma 4.3 34.7 8
Florida 3.1 26.5 9
Colorado 1.8 16.6 9
Tennessee 3.3 33.4 10
Louisiana 4.1 42.9 11
Virginia 1.8 18.7 11
Rhode Island 0.8 9.5 12
Kansas 2.1 27.0 13
Iowa 1.0 13.7 14
California 2.1 32.3 16
Delaware 1.7 30.3 17
Ohio 1.8 37.2 20
Minnesota 0.8 15.3 20
Missouri 2.8 59.4 21
Indiana 2.1 46.1 22
Maryland 1.4 31.1 23
New York 0.8 18.4 23
Connecticut 0.9 21.4 25
Massachusetts 0.6 16.8 27
Nebraska 1.4 40.7 29
Pennsylvania 1.5 43.3 29
Michigan 1.5 49.1 32
Wisconsin 0.9 33.5 36
Illinois 1.1 47.9 46
New Jersey 0.7 31.7 49
Interestingly, there’s almost no correlation (only 0.08) between white and black homicide victimization rates by state. For example, Illinois has law-abiding whites and shooty blacks, while Texas whites get themselves shot dead at above white average rates while Texas blacks get killed less than the black average.

The point of this study in the Annals of Internal Medicine is to promote gun control policy, but the low correlation between the races suggests state laws aren’t terribly important, otherwise you’d expect to see a higher correlation.

The disparities in how black and white men die in gun violence, state by state

By Jacqueline Howard, CNN
Updated 12:35 PM EDT, Tue April 24, 2018

Study: Black and white men in the US face different rates of firearm homicide and suicide

These differences vary by state, the study finds

… The research, published in the Annals of Internal Medicine on Monday, measures drastic differences in how black and white men experience fatal gun violence in the United States.

From the Annals of Internal Medicine:

15 May 2018
Comparison of Rates of Firearm and Nonfirearm Homicide and Suicide in Black and White Non-Hispanic Men, by U.S. State
Corinne A. Riddell, PhD, Sam Harper, PhD, Magdalena Cerdá, PhD, Jay S. Kaufman, PhD

… In 2016, non-Hispanic black men were nearly 10.4 times more likely than non-Hispanic white men to die by homicide in the United States, whereas white men were 2.5 times more likely than black men to die by suicide (1). More than 80% of homicides and 60% of suicides involved firearms. The relative racial inequalities in violent deaths are especially marked for firearm homicide. Black men are 14 times more likely than white men to die by firearm homicide (1).

Here’s sorting the same data by white homicide death rates:

Firearm homicide death rates, by race: 2008-2016

State White Black Ratio
United States 2.1 29.1 14
Massachusetts 0.6 16.8 27
New Jersey 0.7 31.7 49
Minnesota 0.8 15.3 20
Rhode Island 0.8 9.5 12
New York 0.8 18.4 23
Connecticut 0.9 21.4 25
Wisconsin 0.9 33.5 36
Iowa 1.0 13.7 14
Illinois 1.1 47.9 46
Maryland 1.4 31.1 23
Nebraska 1.4 40.7 29
Pennsylvania 1.5 43.3 29
Michigan 1.5 49.1 32
Oregon 1.7 13.5 8
Washington 1.7 12.1 7
Delaware 1.7 30.3 17
Colorado 1.8 16.6 9
Virginia 1.8 18.7 11
Ohio 1.8 37.2 20
California 2.1 32.3 16
Kansas 2.1 27.0 13
Indiana 2.1 46.1 22
Georgia 2.8 20.5 7
Missouri 2.8 59.4 21
North Carolina 2.9 21.2 7
Florida 3.1 26.5 9
Nevada 3.2 23.0 7
Alaska 3.2 12.3 4
Tennessee 3.3 33.4 10
Texas 3.4 18.5 5
Kentucky 3.5 26.2 8
Arizona 3.6 20.4 6
South Carolina 3.8 24.4 6
West Virginia 3.9 22.3 6
Louisiana 4.1 42.9 11
New Mexico 4.3 18.4 4
Oklahoma 4.3 34.7 8
Arkansas 4.4 33.4 8
Alabama 4.5 33.0 7
Mississippi 4.8 28.1 6
Data for 10 states and Washington, DC, were not available.
So, there are some big differences between state in the likelihood that white men will get shot dead.

Presumably, some of the differences in white homicide victimization rates between Massachusetts and Mississippi are due to more Mississippi whites being shot by blacks than Massachusetts whites, since blacks make up a much higher percentage of the population in Mississippi and are somewhat more shooty. I don’t know how to estimate the impact of that factor, though. Any suggestions?

And here are the same numbers sorted by black gun homicide victimization rates:

Firearm homicide death rates, by race: 2008-2016

State White Black Ratio
United States 2.1 29.1 14
Rhode Island 0.8 9.5 12
Washington 1.7 12.1 7
Alaska 3.2 12.3 4
Oregon 1.7 13.5 8
Iowa 1.0 13.7 14
Minnesota 0.8 15.3 20
Colorado 1.8 16.6 9
Massachusetts 0.6 16.8 27
New York 0.8 18.4 23
New Mexico 4.3 18.4 4
Texas 3.4 18.5 5
Virginia 1.8 18.7 11
Arizona 3.6 20.4 6
Georgia 2.8 20.5 7
North Carolina 2.9 21.2 7
Connecticut 0.9 21.4 25
West Virginia 3.9 22.3 6
Nevada 3.2 23.0 7
South Carolina 3.8 24.4 6
Kentucky 3.5 26.2 8
Florida 3.1 26.5 9
Kansas 2.1 27.0 13
Mississippi 4.8 28.1 6
Delaware 1.7 30.3 17
Maryland 1.4 31.1 23
New Jersey 0.7 31.7 49
California 2.1 32.3 16
Alabama 4.5 33.0 7
Arkansas 4.4 33.4 8
Tennessee 3.3 33.4 10
Wisconsin 0.9 33.5 36
Oklahoma 4.3 34.7 8
Ohio 1.8 37.2 20
Nebraska 1.4 40.7 29
Louisiana 4.1 42.9 11
Pennsylvania 1.5 43.3 29
Indiana 2.1 46.1 22
Illinois 1.1 47.9 46
Michigan 1.5 49.1 32
Missouri 2.8 59.4 21
Data for 10 states and Washington, DC, were not available.
Blacks tend to have low rates of getting themselves shot dead where there aren’t too many blacks. But Texas has an impressively low rate for a fairly big black population.

In this time period (2008-2016), black rates of getting shot were worst in Rust Belt states with big urban black populations.

I wonder how much this is changing? My vague impression from looking at the 2021 numbers for big cities for my upcoming Taki’s article is that, lately, Southern blacks are running into trouble. But the CDC and the FBI are about 9 months away from releasing their data for 2021.

One of the missing states in this analysis is Hawaii, which may well have the lowest black homicide rate. Most blacks in Hawaii got there through the military and thus low quality is screened out, or are eccentrics who think Hawaii sounds cool and aren’t into ‘hood culture.

 
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  1. C’mon folks, let’s give it up for Louisiana!

  2. “In this time period (2008-2016), black rates of getting shot were worst in Rust Belt states with big urban black populations.”

    Yikes, the black murder rates for Rust Belt states of Michigan and Missouri are staggeringly and egregiously sky high! In fact, the highest in the nation. Maybe this partially explains the population loss in some of these Rust Belt states.

    • Replies: @Ralph L
    @PaceLaw

    Missouri cops must have totally retreated from black areas after the Ferguson mess.

    Replies: @bomag

    , @Don Unf
    @PaceLaw


    Maybe this partially explains the population loss in some of these Rust Belt states.
     
    In Michigan, the areas with the bulk of the black violence - Detroit, Flint, Saginaw - were long ago depopulated of much of their white residents. Anyone who can or would flee, have long ago left the areas most susceptible to that kind of violence.

    https://www.unitedvanlines.com/newsroom/movers-study-2021?
    The Pandemic Continued to Influence Americans’ Decisions to Move as They Relocated to Lower-Density Areas and Desired to be Closer to Family
    I wonder if general COVID craziness was more responsible for the population loss than violence?

    As an tangent: Suicide via firearm in Michigan:
    https://archive.md/BbxJq
    https://www.datawrapper.de/_/uXlGw/

    Gun homicides in Michigan have been stagnant since 1999. But gun suicides are on the rise and are the impetus for Michigan’s growing number of total firearm deaths.
     
    Supposedly suicides via firearm have risen by some 30ish % in the last 20 years in Michigan. Michigan population during that same period has risen only 2%.
  3. C’mon folks … let’s give it up for Louisiana! The Sun King would be proud.

  4. Curious about their exclusions.

    Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont and the Western whitetopia North+South Dakota, Wyoming, Montana, Utah, Idaho, plus Hawaii don’t make the list. Assume too few blacks for the states to have provided racial statistics–or something.

    But then Oregon–Portland’s Antifa insanity notwithstanding–New Mexico and Alaska i’d also put in the “not very black” camp.

    • Replies: @Shel100
    @AnotherDad

    In 2017 Montpelier,Vermont had its first murder in over 100 years and you guessed it the perp was a black man named Jayveon Caballero.

  5. Another sad case where data censorship, due to the prevailing neo-Puritanism, is destroying society’s ability to do proper social analysis. It is clear that the analysis would be much clearer and informative with homicide PERPETRATOR statistics instead of homicide VICTIM statistics. The proper data type has been censored out of existence, and Sailer does what he can with what he is permitted to see.

    • Replies: @Hhsiii
    @Peter Johnson

    For perpetrator stats race is a social construct, for victimization stats it’s reality.

    , @Chris Renner
    @Peter Johnson


    The proper data type has been censored out of existence
     
    Not really. Perpetrator race is too essential to police work not to collect, though departments and agencies can make it harder to find if they really want to.

    The bigger data quality issue is that perpetrator statistics have a ton of "unknown" race, whereas victim statistics don't.
  6. Are Hispanics counted as whites?

    • Replies: @guest007
    @Traveler 3468

    For perp status they are since the fingerprint cards no not use the term Hispanic/Latino but only allow the use of white, black, Asian, Native American.

    Replies: @FozzieT

  7. To open carry in Texas, you must be at least 21, have a clean psychological and criminal record, complete classroom training, and pass a shooting test. You must also have a concealed carry license. An estimated 925,000 Texans have a concealed carry license and may choose to open carry. That’s around 3% of the population.
    – From the Internet

    Texas also enjoys a “stand your ground” law that facilitates dealing with people acting like fools. I’d identify the states that boast those two particular features. One might discover a satisfying trending affect.

    Example: Looks like this fellow will not be charged.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Zoos

    That is cold blooded murder. The father not only had the right to be there, but even if he didn't, the killer needlessly escalated the situation by bringing the gun out when the father was not being a violent threat. He had literally just said he would bring them in court. If the father wanted to physically harm the ex and her boyfriend then he never would have mentioned anything about court. I can't believe he hasn't been arrested.

    , @Almost Missouri
    @Zoos

    I couldn't hear what was said, but visually it sure looks like the shooter killed the other guy for standing his ground. So this is kind of the opposite of "stand your ground".

    Replies: @bomag, @prosa123, @zoos

    , @Sick of Orcs
    @Zoos

    Who did this honkey think he was? Ahmaud Bluberry?

    Apparently so.

    , @Muggles
    @Zoos


    To open carry in Texas, you must be at least 21, have a clean psychological and criminal record, complete classroom training, and pass a shooting test. You must also have a concealed carry license.
     
    This is obsolete information.

    Beginning Oct. 1, 2021 Texas became a Constitutional Carry state for most venues. There remains a License to Carry permit for carry in some buildings and situations. But for most, you can open or conceal carry without any testing.

    Legal justifications for using firearms didn't change however.

    Whenever you use "the Internet" as a source, you have to vet those original sources and dates.
    , @res
    @Zoos

    Thanks. I find that surprising. For anyone else interested, some discussion of this case following this earlier comment from Zoos.
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/witness-murdering-2/#comment-5030596

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    , @Mike Tre
    @Zoos

    We discussed this case a few weeks ago. Mostly split on opinion but I think it was a bad shoot. The vic was there to pick up his son. All the shooter had to do was call the police. Instead he escalated and went to get his gun.

    If the victim's account was correct, if he was entitled to have custody of his son at that time via court order and the mother was not releasing the child to him, then she and her shootsy boyfriend were technically committing kidnapping.

    Replies: @AndrewR

    , @anonymouseperson
    @Zoos

    No possible way was that justified.

  8. I’m not very surprised that the blacks here in Washington State have some of the lower homicide death rates in the country. A high percentage of the blacks here are African immigrants. I think I once read in the comment section here that Africa (outside of Somalia) sends us their best. That would seem to be true. The African immigrants I meet have a lot of good qualities. They tend to be educated and have a gentleness and civility about them.

    Even the blacks who grew up here are mostly nice. My theory is WA is so far geographically removed from where most blacks live that the toxic black culture isn’t as strong here. Looking at the charts, in general you could say blacks who live in Northern states outside of the rust belt have the lowest homicides.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Jay Fink

    When I got so many people mad at me in 2005 for looking into why New Orleans had such a high murder rate (I suggested that "Let the Good Times Roll" wasn't the best state motto for African-Americans), I can recall being impressed by how low the Washington state rate was.

    Replies: @SafeNow

    , @TWS
    @Jay Fink

    Blacks in Washington state were very well behaved in my youth except for the Rainier valley and Tacoma.

    A friend explained that Washington's first blacks were more solidly respectable and prosperous. They actually opposed the second wave of 'shiftless' types attracted to the industry jobs in the cities.

    The ones I went to school with could have been mistaken for Sons of Norway if judged by speech and behavior. As for grooming they looked like they were ready for a country club. We had one black student who was ill-behaved and dressed. I tend to forget him as he was rarely at school.

    I don't know how much was apocryphal but I remember pictures of the earliest black settlers and they looked both mannered and prosperous.

    In the early eighties, Washington especially Seattle and Tacoma became a Mecca for black gang members from California. Law enforcement and courts had no idea how to deal with them and black dysfunction and poor behavior increased almost exponentially. Other ethnicities with small but semi-active gang culture shifted gears becoming more like the crips and bloods.

    , @ATate
    @Jay Fink

    Over here in the redneck meth head side of Washington State, we had a "shooty" December with all sorts of caterwauling about it. Most of them are under 25, half the shootings were little gang bangers offing themselves. If you look at current inmates here in the county and sort by highest bail you'll see that more than half of the murderers are black.

    The African American population in my city is around 2%.

    Home of Rachel Dolezal.

    Otherwise referred to as an Aryan Nation Stronghold.

    By the way, can you please for the love of God tell our fellow Washingtonians how horrific it is over here? Remind them of how sneering and condescending they were/are about us over here. I'm pleading to everyone with tears in my eyes to quit effing move over here.

    Jesus Christ.

    Replies: @Jay Fink

    , @Smokey
    @Jay Fink

    "The African immigrants I meet have a lot of good qualities. They tend to be educated and have a gentleness and civility about them."

    Agreed.

    Just give them a few years living in close proximity to the inner city folks.

    We won't be able to tell the difference.

  9. Anonymous[211] • Disclaimer says:

    Steve, have you considered that much of the variability in these inter State ratios is due to the (deliberate and intended to deceive) practice of lumping in mestizos – and middle easterners and subcons for that matter – into the ‘white’ category.
    Likely, this is the case in Texas, which is tending to a mestizo dominant population.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    Probably less of a problem with this CDC data, which is taken from death forms. I believe these are typically set up with the modern race/ethnicity categories. The FBI perp data comes from police departments, some of which still use the Adam-12 era LAPD system of boxes for Caucasians (broadly defined), blacks, Asians, and American Indians.

    Replies: @guest007

    , @AndrewR
    @Anonymous

    What an idiotic comment. How many "mestizos – and middle easterners and subcons for that matter" live in Alabama?

    Replies: @By-tor

  10. . . . drastic differences in how black and white men experience fatal gun violence in the United States.

    I’m no doctor, but it seems to me they experience being dead exactly the same.

    As to how to potentially back out the number of cross-race homicides, there is probably no truly valid way as there would be all kinds of local sociological and geographic factors that could determine how much the races in each state interact generally, and with regard to crime in particular.

    Maybe if you found a consistent relationship between the B/W ratio of the population overall and the B/W ratio of murder victims, you could use that to make a guess as to how much of each race’s victimization rate is simply due to the increased density of blacks. But you’d still be guessing with lots of potential confounds at play.

    The black density thing seems like a potentially interesting math problem, though. For example, if a shooty black person has no other black people around to shoot him, his victimization rate will be low. However, if he stays equally shooty himself, but is now surrounded by a 100% population of equally shooty blacks, his victimization rate will skyrocket. Drawing the function of black shootyness, black population density, and expected victimization rate, would probably show something important about black homicide rates. It’s like network theory or something.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Hypnotoad666


    The black density thing seems like a potentially interesting math problem
     
    Interesting. I think the granularity would be too coarse at the state level, so you'd need to know the land area and black (black young male?) population of each county or census tract. I guess that info is available. Certainly at the county level it is.

    There could be some noise from settlement patterns within an area. For example, on paper, suburban New Jersey looks dense but in reality people are spread relatively evenly, while the desert Southwest looks empty on paper, but most people there live in relatively concentrated settlements. So the numbers can belie the reality density in these cases. Maybe that wouldn't matter for this purpose, as outside of the South, blacks tend to concentrate in urban settlements.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

  11. Couple of statistical observations:
    1. the distributions of homicide rates do not overlap; the highest white (Miss 4.8 way below the lowest black, Rhode Island 9.5). So if these data were colour blind you would never make the mistake of identifying one distribution/group with another. No overlap. No ‘Type 1/Type 2’ error where, say, a white homicide rate could have been a black rate. A clean segregation then. Where crime leads, the rest of society will follow??
    2. Steve, to assess how much of white homicide rates are due to black shooters you could start by regressing the white rates against share of blacks in state population. Almost certainly a positive coefficient, probably significant. (Sure, this isn’t a complete model of white homicide where several causal variables would be included and you could have more confidence in the coefficient on each, but a start.)

    • Thanks: Almost Missouri
    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @TyRade


    to assess how much of white homicide rates are due to black shooters you could start by regressing the white rates against share of blacks in state population.
     
    What about pro-rating known rates of inter-racial killings against murders with perps of unknown race?
  12. @Anonymous
    Steve, have you considered that much of the variability in these inter State ratios is due to the (deliberate and intended to deceive) practice of lumping in mestizos - and middle easterners and subcons for that matter - into the 'white' category.
    Likely, this is the case in Texas, which is tending to a mestizo dominant population.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @AndrewR

    Probably less of a problem with this CDC data, which is taken from death forms. I believe these are typically set up with the modern race/ethnicity categories. The FBI perp data comes from police departments, some of which still use the Adam-12 era LAPD system of boxes for Caucasians (broadly defined), blacks, Asians, and American Indians.

    • Replies: @guest007
    @Steve Sailer

    Steve,

    The FBI fingerprint card DF-259 instructions state in the table labeled: RACE CODE TABLE

    there are five categories:

    External Code Literal Description (If Subject Is)

    A Asian or Pacific Islander Chinese, Japanese, Filipino, Korean, Polynesian, Indian, Indonesian, Asian Indian, Samoan, or other Pacific Islander

    B Black A person having origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa

    I American Indian or Alaskan Native American Indian, Eskimo, or Alaskan Native, or a person having origins in any of the 48 contiguous states of the United States or Alaska who maintains cultural identification through tribal affiliation or community recognition

    U Unknown Of Indeterminable Race

    W White Caucasian, Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Central or South American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race.

    See https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/guidelines-for-preparation-of-fingerprint-cards-and-association-criminal-history-information.pdf

    As a joke, I always point out that if Jesus had been arrested in the U.S. he would have been listed as being white in the documentation.

  13. @Jay Fink
    I'm not very surprised that the blacks here in Washington State have some of the lower homicide death rates in the country. A high percentage of the blacks here are African immigrants. I think I once read in the comment section here that Africa (outside of Somalia) sends us their best. That would seem to be true. The African immigrants I meet have a lot of good qualities. They tend to be educated and have a gentleness and civility about them.

    Even the blacks who grew up here are mostly nice. My theory is WA is so far geographically removed from where most blacks live that the toxic black culture isn't as strong here. Looking at the charts, in general you could say blacks who live in Northern states outside of the rust belt have the lowest homicides.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @TWS, @ATate, @Smokey

    When I got so many people mad at me in 2005 for looking into why New Orleans had such a high murder rate (I suggested that “Let the Good Times Roll” wasn’t the best state motto for African-Americans), I can recall being impressed by how low the Washington state rate was.

    • Replies: @SafeNow
    @Steve Sailer


    When I got so many people mad at me in 2005 for looking into why New Orleans had such a high murder rate (I suggested that “Let the Good Times Roll” wasn’t the best state motto for African-Americans),
     
    As I have posted before, during Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans, Coast Guard rescuers were sometimes punched in the face by their victims. I have always attributed this to an attitude of hostility, but maybe face-punching, there and elsewhere, is more a celebratory “Good Times Rolling” attitude. I wonder if anyone has dared to study this. In any case, “turtle-up.” Semper paratus.

    Replies: @ic1000

  14. There’s a 32% correlation between white murder victims per 100,000 and the percent of state population that’s black. There’s a 25% correlation between black murder victims per 100,000 and the percent of state population that’s black.

    There’s a -24% correlation between white murder victims per 100,000 and the percent of state population that’s white. There’s a 1% correlation between black murder victims per 100,000 and the percent of state population that’s white.

    There’s a strong north/south incline in white homicide rates but not in black rates. The states missing from Steve’s list are the most white ones.

    • Thanks: Almost Missouri, res
    • Replies: @Jack D
    @David

    There's an argument to be made that American blacks took their violent Southern culture with them when they migrated north. People think of blacks as being African but the culture of American blacks (as we can see in their accent, diet, religion, etc.) has a lot to do with the several centuries they spent in the American South.

    So the reason there is no cline between southern blacks and northern blacks is that they are almost all really southern blacks.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Chris Mallory

    , @Almost Missouri
    @David


    There’s a strong north/south incline in white homicide rates but not in black rates.
     
    While it is not north/south, there is something of cline in black shooting stats. It goes from the Rust Belt at the high end, down through the Old South, and then to the Whitopia states at the bottom (i.e., Pacific NW, New England, rural non-Rusty Midwest).

    Replies: @jo shmo

  15. The upshot is that Equity practically demands Einsatzgruppen focused on Whites to combat racial disparity.

  16. @Peter Johnson
    Another sad case where data censorship, due to the prevailing neo-Puritanism, is destroying society's ability to do proper social analysis. It is clear that the analysis would be much clearer and informative with homicide PERPETRATOR statistics instead of homicide VICTIM statistics. The proper data type has been censored out of existence, and Sailer does what he can with what he is permitted to see.

    Replies: @Hhsiii, @Chris Renner

    For perpetrator stats race is a social construct, for victimization stats it’s reality.

  17. @Traveler 3468
    Are Hispanics counted as whites?

    Replies: @guest007

    For perp status they are since the fingerprint cards no not use the term Hispanic/Latino but only allow the use of white, black, Asian, Native American.

    • Replies: @FozzieT
    @guest007

    If Hispanics are counted as White, that would explain the higher White homicide rate in TX, AZ, NM and thus the overall lower black vs white ratio in these and other states with relatively high Hispanic populations.

  18. @PaceLaw
    “In this time period (2008-2016), black rates of getting shot were worst in Rust Belt states with big urban black populations.”

    Yikes, the black murder rates for Rust Belt states of Michigan and Missouri are staggeringly and egregiously sky high! In fact, the highest in the nation. Maybe this partially explains the population loss in some of these Rust Belt states.

    Replies: @Ralph L, @Don Unf

    Missouri cops must have totally retreated from black areas after the Ferguson mess.

    • Replies: @bomag
    @Ralph L

    And these stats are largely pre-Ferguson.

    With the penchant of Progressives to massage the statistics, I'm wondering if homicide stats will more and more be listed as accidents; suicides; or not reported at all, etc.

  19. Part of the increase in homicide for Southern blacks is probably migration there by previously Rust Belt blacks.

  20. Aren’t people less shooty in really cold weather? That could partly explain the high rates for both races in the Deep South, yet California is lower.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Ralph L

    Minnesota used to have extremely low crime rates.

  21. @Ralph L
    Aren't people less shooty in really cold weather? That could partly explain the high rates for both races in the Deep South, yet California is lower.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Minnesota used to have extremely low crime rates.

  22. Anon[138] • Disclaimer says:

    Steve, how are you coming to this hairbrained logic that it’s blacks shooting whites that drives higher death rates in Mississipi?

    The ratio between white and black SHOOTERS is much lower than the ratio of white and black VICTIMS, in just about every state!

    If anything this confirms what I’ve been saying all along: it’s white people doing all the killing in America, and unlike blacks, they don’t get caught.

    This is why the national murder rate is declining as the white population ages and declines, particulafly as the younger boomers get old.

    • LOL: Mike Tre
    • Troll: TWS
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    Except that the murder rate in the biggest cities went up 45% in from 2019 to 2021.

    Replies: @Anon, @Truth

    , @silviosilver
    @Anon

    From what I can recall when looking into this about a decade ago, about 80% of homicide victims in cases where the race of the killer was known were killed by someone of their own race. So even if only a small proportion of black killers kill outside their race, because their homicide rates are so high, they can easily push up the victimization rate of other races.


    If anything this confirms what I’ve been saying all along: it’s white people doing all the killing in America, and unlike blacks, they don’t get caught.
     
    Even we assume this idea is true - let's just pretend it is, for a laugh - how do the data presented here confirm it? We've got these large disparities in racial victimization rates, and this confirms that it's "white people doing all the killing" how exactly?
    , @ic1000
    @Anon

    > If anything this confirms what I’ve been saying all along: it’s white people doing all the killing in America, and unlike blacks, they don’t get caught.

    Yeah, here in Rust Belt City, everybody knows that. The young black men whose homicides are uncleared -- about 60%, a touch higher than the national rust-belt city rate of 55% -- were gunned down by an entirely different type of perpetrator from those who have been identified. Informed sources believe that most of these spree killers are road-tripping frat boys from Charlottesville. The remainder drove here after the January 6 Insurrection to avenge Ashli Babbitt.

    By the way, anon, no reader has a clue about what you've been saying all along.

    Perhaps that's for the best.

    , @rebel yell
    @Anon


    The ratio between white and black SHOOTERS is much lower than the ratio of white and black VICTIMS, in just about every state!
     
    Where's your data for white and black shooters? The data on this thread is about the race of victims.
    If blacks are a higher percent of known victims than they are of known shooters, that indicates that a disproportionately high number of unsolved murder cases are blacks shooting blacks, not whites shooting blacks.

    it’s white people doing all the killing in America, and unlike blacks, they don’t get caught.
     
    Evidence on the ground is that black criminals don't get caught because the black "community" will not cooperate with police investigations. If blacks in the neighborhood saw a white guy kill a black guy it would be all over the media.
  23. NH: no gun license required. No age restriction. Highest per capita machine gun ownership. Open carry. #46 in country for per capita gun violence. 94% white. One 2021 mass shooting, Manchester nightclub incident, non-whites.

  24. @Anon
    Steve, how are you coming to this hairbrained logic that it's blacks shooting whites that drives higher death rates in Mississipi?

    The ratio between white and black SHOOTERS is much lower than the ratio of white and black VICTIMS, in just about every state!


    If anything this confirms what I've been saying all along: it's white people doing all the killing in America, and unlike blacks, they don't get caught.

    This is why the national murder rate is declining as the white population ages and declines, particulafly as the younger boomers get old.

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/asher-ucr-2016-0922-1-corrected.png

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @silviosilver, @ic1000, @rebel yell

    Except that the murder rate in the biggest cities went up 45% in from 2019 to 2021.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Steve Sailer

    Covid-related poverty and riots kicked off by a white murderer will do that to big cities.

    I'm taking about the USA as a whole. Not "big citues".
    I guarantee you "big cities" had a higher murder rate than in 2021 when they were whiter in the 1970s. Not to mention a higher bomb rate.


    WHITE PEOPLE ARE THE ACTUAL TERRORISTS.

    Replies: @bomag

    , @Truth
    @Steve Sailer

    So did the murder rate in Phoenix, Tucson, Spokane, Albuquerque, Mesa, AZ and Salt Lake City.

  25. This mostly confirms what we already know, but a few questions:

    Are mestizos included or excluded in the “white” category?

    Are justifiable homicides included?

    What is ratio of clearance rates between races?

    • Replies: @guest007
    @Mike Tre

    Considering that the data is reported before a court trial could occur, it would include data based on the judgement of law enforcement.

    , @res
    @Mike Tre

    This page has good data on clearance rates by race of victim (white or black) by state (and county!) from 1976-2019.
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/track-solved-murder-rates-united-states-n1271928

    The original source of that data has 1965-2020 and supports downloading the data (but I don't see easily accessible victim race breakdowns).
    http://www.murderdata.org/p/blog-page.html
    http://www.murderdata.org/p/how-to.html

    If someone is interested in doing a deep dive into the FBI homicide statistics, this looks like it could be a very useful site.
    http://www.murderdata.org/p/data-docs.html

    P.S. Supposedly their data has some offender demographic information, but it is not reliably updated. See https://www.dropbox.com/s/n7moldzzqdv5jiq/HowToForMAP2018.pdf?dl=1
    Still might be useful for looking at some trends.

  26. @Anon
    Steve, how are you coming to this hairbrained logic that it's blacks shooting whites that drives higher death rates in Mississipi?

    The ratio between white and black SHOOTERS is much lower than the ratio of white and black VICTIMS, in just about every state!


    If anything this confirms what I've been saying all along: it's white people doing all the killing in America, and unlike blacks, they don't get caught.

    This is why the national murder rate is declining as the white population ages and declines, particulafly as the younger boomers get old.

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/asher-ucr-2016-0922-1-corrected.png

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @silviosilver, @ic1000, @rebel yell

    From what I can recall when looking into this about a decade ago, about 80% of homicide victims in cases where the race of the killer was known were killed by someone of their own race. So even if only a small proportion of black killers kill outside their race, because their homicide rates are so high, they can easily push up the victimization rate of other races.

    If anything this confirms what I’ve been saying all along: it’s white people doing all the killing in America, and unlike blacks, they don’t get caught.

    Even we assume this idea is true – let’s just pretend it is, for a laugh – how do the data presented here confirm it? We’ve got these large disparities in racial victimization rates, and this confirms that it’s “white people doing all the killing” how exactly?

  27. Missouri, highest black gun homicide rate from 2008-2016.

    I knew the native city, with an assist from Kansas City, could do it!

  28. @guest007
    @Traveler 3468

    For perp status they are since the fingerprint cards no not use the term Hispanic/Latino but only allow the use of white, black, Asian, Native American.

    Replies: @FozzieT

    If Hispanics are counted as White, that would explain the higher White homicide rate in TX, AZ, NM and thus the overall lower black vs white ratio in these and other states with relatively high Hispanic populations.

  29. @PaceLaw
    “In this time period (2008-2016), black rates of getting shot were worst in Rust Belt states with big urban black populations.”

    Yikes, the black murder rates for Rust Belt states of Michigan and Missouri are staggeringly and egregiously sky high! In fact, the highest in the nation. Maybe this partially explains the population loss in some of these Rust Belt states.

    Replies: @Ralph L, @Don Unf

    Maybe this partially explains the population loss in some of these Rust Belt states.

    In Michigan, the areas with the bulk of the black violence – Detroit, Flint, Saginaw – were long ago depopulated of much of their white residents. Anyone who can or would flee, have long ago left the areas most susceptible to that kind of violence.

    https://www.unitedvanlines.com/newsroom/movers-study-2021?
    The Pandemic Continued to Influence Americans’ Decisions to Move as They Relocated to Lower-Density Areas and Desired to be Closer to Family
    I wonder if general COVID craziness was more responsible for the population loss than violence?

    As an tangent: Suicide via firearm in Michigan:
    https://archive.md/BbxJq
    https://www.datawrapper.de/_/uXlGw/

    Gun homicides in Michigan have been stagnant since 1999. But gun suicides are on the rise and are the impetus for Michigan’s growing number of total firearm deaths.

    Supposedly suicides via firearm have risen by some 30ish % in the last 20 years in Michigan. Michigan population during that same period has risen only 2%.

  30. Seems like states with a lot of Scots-Irish or similar heritage tend to have more violent whites – obviously not a perfect correlation by any means but Southern and Appalachianish whites seem to be be more trouble than the German/Nordic types.

    Living in a Rust Belt state with lots of urban blacks, I have always thought the loss of manufacturing jobs over the last 50 years is one of the biggest catastrophes our country has seen in terms of the downhill effects. Millions of people who were on the left hand side of the bell curve had a means of a decent income and structure in life that rapidly disappeared. Society really had no answer for what to do with them other than the BS line that jobs lost to trade would be made up by all these workers being retrained as computer programmers or some other idiocy. Importing millions of Latinos to displace blacks from hourly wage jobs also didn’t help.

    More recently, paying people to stay out of the workforce for an extended time during the pandemic gave those who most need to be kept out of trouble plenty of opportunity to buy flashy new goods and leisure time to pursue retaliatory violence over petty disputes.

    • Agree: ic1000, Johann Ricke
    • Thanks: William Badwhite
    • Replies: @prosa123
    @Arclight

    More recently, paying people to stay out of the workforce for an extended time during the pandemic gave those who most need to be kept out of trouble plenty of opportunity to buy flashy new goods and leisure time to pursue retaliatory violence over petty disputes.

    Recent research from the Department of Labor and private sector economists has largely debunked the common notion that enhanced unemployment benefits caused people to drop out of the labor force. Participation rates have fallen mostly because of a surge in older workers taking early retirement. A secondary factor consisted of women having to quit their jobs and become housewives after schools and day care centers shut down.

    Replies: @Arclight, @Johann Ricke

    , @thenon
    @Arclight

    "Southern and Appalachianish whites seem to be be more trouble than the German/Nordic types." ...Until the German/Nordics get organized behind a charismatic leader and start to wear stylish uniforms.

  31. @Anon
    Steve, how are you coming to this hairbrained logic that it's blacks shooting whites that drives higher death rates in Mississipi?

    The ratio between white and black SHOOTERS is much lower than the ratio of white and black VICTIMS, in just about every state!


    If anything this confirms what I've been saying all along: it's white people doing all the killing in America, and unlike blacks, they don't get caught.

    This is why the national murder rate is declining as the white population ages and declines, particulafly as the younger boomers get old.

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/asher-ucr-2016-0922-1-corrected.png

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @silviosilver, @ic1000, @rebel yell

    > If anything this confirms what I’ve been saying all along: it’s white people doing all the killing in America, and unlike blacks, they don’t get caught.

    Yeah, here in Rust Belt City, everybody knows that. The young black men whose homicides are uncleared — about 60%, a touch higher than the national rust-belt city rate of 55% — were gunned down by an entirely different type of perpetrator from those who have been identified. Informed sources believe that most of these spree killers are road-tripping frat boys from Charlottesville. The remainder drove here after the January 6 Insurrection to avenge Ashli Babbitt.

    By the way, anon, no reader has a clue about what you’ve been saying all along.

    Perhaps that’s for the best.

  32. @Zoos
    To open carry in Texas, you must be at least 21, have a clean psychological and criminal record, complete classroom training, and pass a shooting test. You must also have a concealed carry license. An estimated 925,000 Texans have a concealed carry license and may choose to open carry. That's around 3% of the population.
    – From the Internet

    Texas also enjoys a "stand your ground" law that facilitates dealing with people acting like fools. I’d identify the states that boast those two particular features. One might discover a satisfying trending affect.

    Example: Looks like this fellow will not be charged.

    https://youtu.be/-7shU6sLy0c

    Replies: @AndrewR, @Almost Missouri, @Sick of Orcs, @Muggles, @res, @Mike Tre, @anonymouseperson

    That is cold blooded murder. The father not only had the right to be there, but even if he didn’t, the killer needlessly escalated the situation by bringing the gun out when the father was not being a violent threat. He had literally just said he would bring them in court. If the father wanted to physically harm the ex and her boyfriend then he never would have mentioned anything about court. I can’t believe he hasn’t been arrested.

  33. @Anonymous
    Steve, have you considered that much of the variability in these inter State ratios is due to the (deliberate and intended to deceive) practice of lumping in mestizos - and middle easterners and subcons for that matter - into the 'white' category.
    Likely, this is the case in Texas, which is tending to a mestizo dominant population.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @AndrewR

    What an idiotic comment. How many “mestizos – and middle easterners and subcons for that matter” live in Alabama?

    • Replies: @By-tor
    @AndrewR

    No one knows how many 'mestizo' illiterates live anywhere in the US, since a good 50% or more are allowed to remain inside the country illegally. They have taken over rural trailer parks, apartment complexes, churches and nearby strip malls and turned them into small Nuevo Laredos. These invaders live in a parallel society.

    Replies: @AndrewR

  34. @Zoos
    To open carry in Texas, you must be at least 21, have a clean psychological and criminal record, complete classroom training, and pass a shooting test. You must also have a concealed carry license. An estimated 925,000 Texans have a concealed carry license and may choose to open carry. That's around 3% of the population.
    – From the Internet

    Texas also enjoys a "stand your ground" law that facilitates dealing with people acting like fools. I’d identify the states that boast those two particular features. One might discover a satisfying trending affect.

    Example: Looks like this fellow will not be charged.

    https://youtu.be/-7shU6sLy0c

    Replies: @AndrewR, @Almost Missouri, @Sick of Orcs, @Muggles, @res, @Mike Tre, @anonymouseperson

    I couldn’t hear what was said, but visually it sure looks like the shooter killed the other guy for standing his ground. So this is kind of the opposite of “stand your ground”.

    • Agree: mc23
    • Replies: @bomag
    @Almost Missouri

    Tend to agree.

    Might matter whose house.

    , @prosa123
    @Almost Missouri

    The shooter should have handled that using good old-fashioned muscle power rather than relying on a gun. While he was slightly smaller than the other man he looked to be significantly younger and therefore not at any overall disadvantage.

    Replies: @Old Prude

    , @zoos
    @Almost Missouri


    I couldn’t hear what was said, but visually it sure looks like the shooter killed the other guy for standing his ground. So this is kind of the opposite of “stand your ground”.

     

    So, you admit you don’t know what’s going on in the video, because you can’t hear it, because your speaker volume is set too low, yet you’re going to set me straight on "stand your ground" laws as applicable in the video you don’t understand.

    You’re remarkable.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

  35. And here are the same numbers sorted by black gun homicide victimization rates:

    Firearm homicide death rates, by race: 2008-2016

    State White Black Ratio
    United States 2.1 29.1 14
    Rhode Island 0.8 9.5 12
    Washington 1.7 12.1 7
    Alaska 3.2 12.3 4
    Oregon 1.7 13.5 8
    Iowa 1.0 13.7 14
    Minnesota 0.8 15.3 20
    Colorado 1.8 16.6 9
    Massachusetts 0.6 16.8 27
    New York 0.8 18.4 23
    New Mexico 4.3 18.4 4
    Texas 3.4 18.5 5
    Virginia 1.8 18.7 11
    Arizona 3.6 20.4 6
    Georgia 2.8 20.5 7
    North Carolina 2.9 21.2 7
    Connecticut 0.9 21.4 25
    West Virginia 3.9 22.3 6
    Nevada 3.2 23.0 7
    South Carolina 3.8 24.4 6
    Kentucky 3.5 26.2 8
    Florida 3.1 26.5 9
    Kansas 2.1 27.0 13
    Mississippi 4.8 28.1 6
    Delaware 1.7 30.3 17
    Maryland 1.4 31.1 23
    New Jersey 0.7 31.7 49
    California 2.1 32.3 16
    Alabama 4.5 33.0 7
    Arkansas 4.4 33.4 8
    Tennessee 3.3 33.4 10
    Wisconsin 0.9 33.5 36
    Oklahoma 4.3 34.7 8
    Ohio 1.8 37.2 20
    Nebraska 1.4 40.7 29
    Louisiana 4.1 42.9 11
    Pennsylvania 1.5 43.3 29
    Indiana 2.1 46.1 22
    Illinois 1.1 47.9 46
    Michigan 1.5 49.1 32
    Missouri 2.8 59.4 21

    Data for 10 states and Washington, DC, were not available.

    Sorry for the mess But I could not see that the table (even when legible) was

    sorted by black gun homicide victimization rates

    Nor could I find, after an admittedly cursory glance, what, if any, the sort order was.
    Any ideas?

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @Bill Jones

    It's sorted by black gun homicide victimization rates by state, in increasing order, from Rhode Island the lowest rate (9.5) to Michigan the highest rate (59.4).

    You might have been thrown off by the first row, which is for the United States as a whole.

    Replies: @Bill Jones

  36. Lower gun homicide rates for whites seem to align higher percentage of Irish ancestry.

    Massachusetts with a rate of 0.6, Rhode Island 0.8, Connecticut 0.9, with Maine and New Hampshire having rates not worth mentioning, are all places where St Pat’s day is widely celebrated.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @Coemgen


    Lower gun homicide rates for whites seem to align higher percentage of Irish ancestry.

    Massachusetts with a rate of 0.6, Rhode Island 0.8, Connecticut 0.9, with Maine and New Hampshire having rates not worth mentioning, are all places where St Pat’s day is widely celebrated.
     

    C'mon, don't sell us short! We can mix it up ... though appropriate brawling is our stock in trade.

    It's Yankee--Puritan/Congregationalist or Quakerish (that would include Mormons, but none of their states are on the list) and the Germanics (upper midwest--Wisconsin peak Kraut--and out across the prairies) at the bottom. My guess is Irish Americans are a tick above that in the middle. Then the Scots-Irish wildmen--West Virginia and through the southern hills to Oklahoma--the shootyist whites.

    Replies: @Coemgen

  37. @TyRade
    Couple of statistical observations:
    1. the distributions of homicide rates do not overlap; the highest white (Miss 4.8 way below the lowest black, Rhode Island 9.5). So if these data were colour blind you would never make the mistake of identifying one distribution/group with another. No overlap. No 'Type 1/Type 2' error where, say, a white homicide rate could have been a black rate. A clean segregation then. Where crime leads, the rest of society will follow??
    2. Steve, to assess how much of white homicide rates are due to black shooters you could start by regressing the white rates against share of blacks in state population. Almost certainly a positive coefficient, probably significant. (Sure, this isn't a complete model of white homicide where several causal variables would be included and you could have more confidence in the coefficient on each, but a start.)

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    to assess how much of white homicide rates are due to black shooters you could start by regressing the white rates against share of blacks in state population.

    What about pro-rating known rates of inter-racial killings against murders with perps of unknown race?

  38. Anon[138] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    Except that the murder rate in the biggest cities went up 45% in from 2019 to 2021.

    Replies: @Anon, @Truth

    Covid-related poverty and riots kicked off by a white murderer will do that to big cities.

    I’m taking about the USA as a whole. Not “big citues”.
    I guarantee you “big cities” had a higher murder rate than in 2021 when they were whiter in the 1970s. Not to mention a higher bomb rate.

    WHITE PEOPLE ARE THE ACTUAL TERRORISTS.

    • Replies: @bomag
    @Anon


    ...“big cities” had a higher murder rate than in 2021 when they were whiter in the 1970s.
     
    What you will never understand is that there is the same delta between Blacks and Whites.
  39. @Ralph L
    @PaceLaw

    Missouri cops must have totally retreated from black areas after the Ferguson mess.

    Replies: @bomag

    And these stats are largely pre-Ferguson.

    With the penchant of Progressives to massage the statistics, I’m wondering if homicide stats will more and more be listed as accidents; suicides; or not reported at all, etc.

  40. @Almost Missouri
    @Zoos

    I couldn't hear what was said, but visually it sure looks like the shooter killed the other guy for standing his ground. So this is kind of the opposite of "stand your ground".

    Replies: @bomag, @prosa123, @zoos

    Tend to agree.

    Might matter whose house.

  41. @Almost Missouri
    @Zoos

    I couldn't hear what was said, but visually it sure looks like the shooter killed the other guy for standing his ground. So this is kind of the opposite of "stand your ground".

    Replies: @bomag, @prosa123, @zoos

    The shooter should have handled that using good old-fashioned muscle power rather than relying on a gun. While he was slightly smaller than the other man he looked to be significantly younger and therefore not at any overall disadvantage.

    • LOL: Old Prude
    • Replies: @Old Prude
    @prosa123

    How many rounds do boxing matches last?

    This fight lasted one round.

  42. Some states aren’t even listed! Like mine.

    And you wonder why people move to Boise.

    • Replies: @TWS
    @Carol

    Boise has enough californicators that they'll tip the state blue eventually

  43. @Arclight
    Seems like states with a lot of Scots-Irish or similar heritage tend to have more violent whites - obviously not a perfect correlation by any means but Southern and Appalachianish whites seem to be be more trouble than the German/Nordic types.

    Living in a Rust Belt state with lots of urban blacks, I have always thought the loss of manufacturing jobs over the last 50 years is one of the biggest catastrophes our country has seen in terms of the downhill effects. Millions of people who were on the left hand side of the bell curve had a means of a decent income and structure in life that rapidly disappeared. Society really had no answer for what to do with them other than the BS line that jobs lost to trade would be made up by all these workers being retrained as computer programmers or some other idiocy. Importing millions of Latinos to displace blacks from hourly wage jobs also didn't help.

    More recently, paying people to stay out of the workforce for an extended time during the pandemic gave those who most need to be kept out of trouble plenty of opportunity to buy flashy new goods and leisure time to pursue retaliatory violence over petty disputes.

    Replies: @prosa123, @thenon

    More recently, paying people to stay out of the workforce for an extended time during the pandemic gave those who most need to be kept out of trouble plenty of opportunity to buy flashy new goods and leisure time to pursue retaliatory violence over petty disputes.

    Recent research from the Department of Labor and private sector economists has largely debunked the common notion that enhanced unemployment benefits caused people to drop out of the labor force. Participation rates have fallen mostly because of a surge in older workers taking early retirement. A secondary factor consisted of women having to quit their jobs and become housewives after schools and day care centers shut down.

    • Replies: @Arclight
    @prosa123

    Could be, but I still think that handing thousands of dollars in stimmy checks and/or unemployment to hands that shouldn't be idle like has contributed to an uptick in crime.

    , @Johann Ricke
    @prosa123


    Recent research from the Department of Labor and private sector economists has largely debunked the common notion that enhanced unemployment benefits caused people to drop out of the labor force. Participation rates have fallen mostly because of a surge in older workers taking early retirement. A secondary factor consisted of women having to quit their jobs and become housewives after schools and day care centers shut down.
     
    Given the way stats have become politicized in the woke era, I have to wonder if these conclusions are replicable. If someone else did the counting, would the results be the same? That's not even factoring in the increasing intrusion of unqualified quota hires into roles they lack the raw ability, never mind the skills, to fill.
  44. @Arclight
    Seems like states with a lot of Scots-Irish or similar heritage tend to have more violent whites - obviously not a perfect correlation by any means but Southern and Appalachianish whites seem to be be more trouble than the German/Nordic types.

    Living in a Rust Belt state with lots of urban blacks, I have always thought the loss of manufacturing jobs over the last 50 years is one of the biggest catastrophes our country has seen in terms of the downhill effects. Millions of people who were on the left hand side of the bell curve had a means of a decent income and structure in life that rapidly disappeared. Society really had no answer for what to do with them other than the BS line that jobs lost to trade would be made up by all these workers being retrained as computer programmers or some other idiocy. Importing millions of Latinos to displace blacks from hourly wage jobs also didn't help.

    More recently, paying people to stay out of the workforce for an extended time during the pandemic gave those who most need to be kept out of trouble plenty of opportunity to buy flashy new goods and leisure time to pursue retaliatory violence over petty disputes.

    Replies: @prosa123, @thenon

    “Southern and Appalachianish whites seem to be be more trouble than the German/Nordic types.” …Until the German/Nordics get organized behind a charismatic leader and start to wear stylish uniforms.

  45. Re: Texas and Illinois, maybe the more ornery the whites, the better behaved the blacks.

    • LOL: PaceLaw
  46. OT: Swedish mother charged with war crimes for allowing child to fight for Islamic state!

    Oh, “Swedish.” Authorities are “not releasing any details” about the mother or child, because they don’t want anyone to actually know anything…

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/swedish-mother-charged-with-enlisting-son-12-to-fight-in-syria-20220105-p59lwh.html

    Without blegs, America has a much lower gun homicide rate, and without Mohammedans, Sweden has zero war criminal mothers.

  47. Might be nice to put units in the table. I’m assuming it’s something like deaths/100K residents or something.

  48. @prosa123
    @Arclight

    More recently, paying people to stay out of the workforce for an extended time during the pandemic gave those who most need to be kept out of trouble plenty of opportunity to buy flashy new goods and leisure time to pursue retaliatory violence over petty disputes.

    Recent research from the Department of Labor and private sector economists has largely debunked the common notion that enhanced unemployment benefits caused people to drop out of the labor force. Participation rates have fallen mostly because of a surge in older workers taking early retirement. A secondary factor consisted of women having to quit their jobs and become housewives after schools and day care centers shut down.

    Replies: @Arclight, @Johann Ricke

    Could be, but I still think that handing thousands of dollars in stimmy checks and/or unemployment to hands that shouldn’t be idle like has contributed to an uptick in crime.

    • Agree: bomag
  49. Are those parts per thousand or what? Those can’t be percentages.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @Anonymous

    Per 100k population is my guess, that being the standard unit for crime rates.

  50. You seem to be missing some States.

    • Replies: @guest007
    @TWS

    There is a footnote about that. In states with few blacks, the ratio cannot be reliably calculated.

    Replies: @TWS

  51. @Peter Johnson
    Another sad case where data censorship, due to the prevailing neo-Puritanism, is destroying society's ability to do proper social analysis. It is clear that the analysis would be much clearer and informative with homicide PERPETRATOR statistics instead of homicide VICTIM statistics. The proper data type has been censored out of existence, and Sailer does what he can with what he is permitted to see.

    Replies: @Hhsiii, @Chris Renner

    The proper data type has been censored out of existence

    Not really. Perpetrator race is too essential to police work not to collect, though departments and agencies can make it harder to find if they really want to.

    The bigger data quality issue is that perpetrator statistics have a ton of “unknown” race, whereas victim statistics don’t.

  52. @David
    There's a 32% correlation between white murder victims per 100,000 and the percent of state population that's black. There's a 25% correlation between black murder victims per 100,000 and the percent of state population that's black.

    There's a -24% correlation between white murder victims per 100,000 and the percent of state population that's white. There's a 1% correlation between black murder victims per 100,000 and the percent of state population that's white.

    There's a strong north/south incline in white homicide rates but not in black rates. The states missing from Steve's list are the most white ones.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Almost Missouri

    There’s an argument to be made that American blacks took their violent Southern culture with them when they migrated north. People think of blacks as being African but the culture of American blacks (as we can see in their accent, diet, religion, etc.) has a lot to do with the several centuries they spent in the American South.

    So the reason there is no cline between southern blacks and northern blacks is that they are almost all really southern blacks.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Jack D


    People think of blacks as being African but the culture of American blacks (as we can see in their accent, diet, religion, etc.) has a lot to do with the several centuries they spent in the American South.
     
    The Albion's Seed guy has a book coming out that is meant to be like Albion's Seed but for black people:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/ethnic-backgrounds-of-the-british-invasion-groups/#comment-5080978

    To me, this looks like We WuZ KANGS for the wine-and-cheese set, but Fischer's a bright guy, so we'll see. Steve'll probably review it when it comes out.

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @Chris Mallory
    @Jack D


    has a lot to do with the several centuries they spent in the American South.
     
    Which explains why African is filled with peaceful, advanced civilizations. It is all the Cracker's fault
    that American blacks are violent.
    Though, I will admit, Central America makes Africa look peaceful.

    Replies: @Jack D

  53. @Jay Fink
    I'm not very surprised that the blacks here in Washington State have some of the lower homicide death rates in the country. A high percentage of the blacks here are African immigrants. I think I once read in the comment section here that Africa (outside of Somalia) sends us their best. That would seem to be true. The African immigrants I meet have a lot of good qualities. They tend to be educated and have a gentleness and civility about them.

    Even the blacks who grew up here are mostly nice. My theory is WA is so far geographically removed from where most blacks live that the toxic black culture isn't as strong here. Looking at the charts, in general you could say blacks who live in Northern states outside of the rust belt have the lowest homicides.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @TWS, @ATate, @Smokey

    Blacks in Washington state were very well behaved in my youth except for the Rainier valley and Tacoma.

    A friend explained that Washington’s first blacks were more solidly respectable and prosperous. They actually opposed the second wave of ‘shiftless’ types attracted to the industry jobs in the cities.

    The ones I went to school with could have been mistaken for Sons of Norway if judged by speech and behavior. As for grooming they looked like they were ready for a country club. We had one black student who was ill-behaved and dressed. I tend to forget him as he was rarely at school.

    I don’t know how much was apocryphal but I remember pictures of the earliest black settlers and they looked both mannered and prosperous.

    In the early eighties, Washington especially Seattle and Tacoma became a Mecca for black gang members from California. Law enforcement and courts had no idea how to deal with them and black dysfunction and poor behavior increased almost exponentially. Other ethnicities with small but semi-active gang culture shifted gears becoming more like the crips and bloods.

  54. @Jay Fink
    I'm not very surprised that the blacks here in Washington State have some of the lower homicide death rates in the country. A high percentage of the blacks here are African immigrants. I think I once read in the comment section here that Africa (outside of Somalia) sends us their best. That would seem to be true. The African immigrants I meet have a lot of good qualities. They tend to be educated and have a gentleness and civility about them.

    Even the blacks who grew up here are mostly nice. My theory is WA is so far geographically removed from where most blacks live that the toxic black culture isn't as strong here. Looking at the charts, in general you could say blacks who live in Northern states outside of the rust belt have the lowest homicides.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @TWS, @ATate, @Smokey

    Over here in the redneck meth head side of Washington State, we had a “shooty” December with all sorts of caterwauling about it. Most of them are under 25, half the shootings were little gang bangers offing themselves. If you look at current inmates here in the county and sort by highest bail you’ll see that more than half of the murderers are black.

    The African American population in my city is around 2%.

    Home of Rachel Dolezal.

    Otherwise referred to as an Aryan Nation Stronghold.

    By the way, can you please for the love of God tell our fellow Washingtonians how horrific it is over here? Remind them of how sneering and condescending they were/are about us over here. I’m pleading to everyone with tears in my eyes to quit effing move over here.

    Jesus Christ.

    • Replies: @Jay Fink
    @ATate

    I study population trends closely. In the 2010s Washington was growing at a ridiculous rate. In the most recent Census estimate for 2021 things have changed drastically. Growth was only 0.8%, in the middle of the pack for the country. Few states were booming in population growth this past year but the top two growth states by % are Idaho and Montana. As much as we hear of Californians moving to those free states I have no doubt Washingtonians are flocking there too.

  55. anonymous[139] • Disclaimer says:

    Looking at the homicides alone can also be misleading as it actually underplays black perpetrated shootings. There’s a huge number of non-fatal shootings that’s skipped over. So far in 2022 there’s been 36 shot so far in Chicago but ‘only’ 8 dead. 4542 shot last year, 794 of them fatally. Not 100% black perpetrated, Hispanics account for 14.5% of the homicides. Blacks are doing their shootings all over the city now, driving around emptying their clips when encountering a target. I know this article is about homicide rates but carjackings are flagrant and way up, almost all of it a black perpetrated affair. These things are part of a continuum of black behavior and form the overall picture of what’s going on.

  56. @David
    There's a 32% correlation between white murder victims per 100,000 and the percent of state population that's black. There's a 25% correlation between black murder victims per 100,000 and the percent of state population that's black.

    There's a -24% correlation between white murder victims per 100,000 and the percent of state population that's white. There's a 1% correlation between black murder victims per 100,000 and the percent of state population that's white.

    There's a strong north/south incline in white homicide rates but not in black rates. The states missing from Steve's list are the most white ones.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Almost Missouri

    There’s a strong north/south incline in white homicide rates but not in black rates.

    While it is not north/south, there is something of cline in black shooting stats. It goes from the Rust Belt at the high end, down through the Old South, and then to the Whitopia states at the bottom (i.e., Pacific NW, New England, rural non-Rusty Midwest).

    • Replies: @jo shmo
    @Almost Missouri

    It looks like racial segregation.

    South is not segregated. Blacks are everywhere mostly shooting one another but also others.

    North is more segregated. Blacks are in their area shooting one another but others not so much.

  57. @Zoos
    To open carry in Texas, you must be at least 21, have a clean psychological and criminal record, complete classroom training, and pass a shooting test. You must also have a concealed carry license. An estimated 925,000 Texans have a concealed carry license and may choose to open carry. That's around 3% of the population.
    – From the Internet

    Texas also enjoys a "stand your ground" law that facilitates dealing with people acting like fools. I’d identify the states that boast those two particular features. One might discover a satisfying trending affect.

    Example: Looks like this fellow will not be charged.

    https://youtu.be/-7shU6sLy0c

    Replies: @AndrewR, @Almost Missouri, @Sick of Orcs, @Muggles, @res, @Mike Tre, @anonymouseperson

    Who did this honkey think he was? Ahmaud Bluberry?

    Apparently so.

  58. The four most murderous states for blacks are contiguous — Missouri, Illinois, Indiana and Michigan.

    • Replies: @stillCARealist
    @International Jew

    gang network? Drug routes? Tell us your theories.

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @International Jew

    https://www.amazon.com/Promised-Land-Migration-Changed-America/dp/0679733477

    Replies: @International Jew

  59. @prosa123
    @Almost Missouri

    The shooter should have handled that using good old-fashioned muscle power rather than relying on a gun. While he was slightly smaller than the other man he looked to be significantly younger and therefore not at any overall disadvantage.

    Replies: @Old Prude

    How many rounds do boxing matches last?

    This fight lasted one round.

  60. One of the missing states in this analysis is Hawaii, which may well have the lowest black homicide rate. Most blacks in Hawaii got there through the military and thus low quality is screened out, or are eccentrics who think Hawaii sounds cool and aren’t into ‘hood culture.

    You would think they would feature Hawaii, since it is the only state in which all firearms must be registered and also has a low homicide rate.

  61. @Hypnotoad666

    . . . drastic differences in how black and white men experience fatal gun violence in the United States.
     
    I'm no doctor, but it seems to me they experience being dead exactly the same.

    As to how to potentially back out the number of cross-race homicides, there is probably no truly valid way as there would be all kinds of local sociological and geographic factors that could determine how much the races in each state interact generally, and with regard to crime in particular.

    Maybe if you found a consistent relationship between the B/W ratio of the population overall and the B/W ratio of murder victims, you could use that to make a guess as to how much of each race's victimization rate is simply due to the increased density of blacks. But you'd still be guessing with lots of potential confounds at play.

    The black density thing seems like a potentially interesting math problem, though. For example, if a shooty black person has no other black people around to shoot him, his victimization rate will be low. However, if he stays equally shooty himself, but is now surrounded by a 100% population of equally shooty blacks, his victimization rate will skyrocket. Drawing the function of black shootyness, black population density, and expected victimization rate, would probably show something important about black homicide rates. It's like network theory or something.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    The black density thing seems like a potentially interesting math problem

    Interesting. I think the granularity would be too coarse at the state level, so you’d need to know the land area and black (black young male?) population of each county or census tract. I guess that info is available. Certainly at the county level it is.

    There could be some noise from settlement patterns within an area. For example, on paper, suburban New Jersey looks dense but in reality people are spread relatively evenly, while the desert Southwest looks empty on paper, but most people there live in relatively concentrated settlements. So the numbers can belie the reality density in these cases. Maybe that wouldn’t matter for this purpose, as outside of the South, blacks tend to concentrate in urban settlements.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @Almost Missouri

    Good point. The issue would be determining the relevant area for measuring "density." Census tract seems a logical choice, though. It would make a nice thesis project for some grad student. Does spreading blacks around (all else equal) increase or decrease homicide rates overall, or does it just share the pain by spreading the homicides around and making them more inter-racial? Perhaps there is a tipping point of black density where one murder begets another until the whole mass (Southside Chicago?) "goes critical."

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

  62. @Jack D
    @David

    There's an argument to be made that American blacks took their violent Southern culture with them when they migrated north. People think of blacks as being African but the culture of American blacks (as we can see in their accent, diet, religion, etc.) has a lot to do with the several centuries they spent in the American South.

    So the reason there is no cline between southern blacks and northern blacks is that they are almost all really southern blacks.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Chris Mallory

    People think of blacks as being African but the culture of American blacks (as we can see in their accent, diet, religion, etc.) has a lot to do with the several centuries they spent in the American South.

    The Albion’s Seed guy has a book coming out that is meant to be like Albion’s Seed but for black people:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/ethnic-backgrounds-of-the-british-invasion-groups/#comment-5080978

    To me, this looks like We WuZ KANGS for the wine-and-cheese set, but Fischer’s a bright guy, so we’ll see. Steve’ll probably review it when it comes out.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Almost Missouri


    To me, this looks like We WuZ KANGS for the wine-and-cheese set,
     
    That's what I got out of the blurb:

    how enslaved Africans and their descendants enlarged American ideas of freedom in varying ways in different regions of the early United States.
     

    The Africans brought with them linguistic skills, novel techniques of animal husbandry and farming, and generations-old ethical principles, among other attributes.

     

    Somehow, "enlarged American ideas of freedom" is not really the 1st thing that comes to mind when it comes to blacks, but maybe the book has more nuance that the blurb.

    So maybe more "Hidden Figures" than "We Wuz Kangs" - "ngumbo" is an African word, therefore all of American cooking is really African cooking. Etc. It's not that Africans didn't contribute at all but there were a lot of other contributions which were more important - the English cooking that the settlers brought with them, Indian influences, French and Spanish influences etc. The modern tendency seems to be "we didn't give blacks any credit for their accomplishments in the past, so in order to make up for that, going forward we are going to give them 100% credit for everything."

    I'd especially like to know what those generations-old ethical principles were and how whites were influenced by them. The ironic thing is that a handful of the slaves were Muslims who could read and write in Arabic and were familiar with at least some Islamic law, but their white masters were not really interested in learning the fine points of the Koran and the Koran was not African to begin with.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Bill Jones

  63. @Zoos
    To open carry in Texas, you must be at least 21, have a clean psychological and criminal record, complete classroom training, and pass a shooting test. You must also have a concealed carry license. An estimated 925,000 Texans have a concealed carry license and may choose to open carry. That's around 3% of the population.
    – From the Internet

    Texas also enjoys a "stand your ground" law that facilitates dealing with people acting like fools. I’d identify the states that boast those two particular features. One might discover a satisfying trending affect.

    Example: Looks like this fellow will not be charged.

    https://youtu.be/-7shU6sLy0c

    Replies: @AndrewR, @Almost Missouri, @Sick of Orcs, @Muggles, @res, @Mike Tre, @anonymouseperson

    To open carry in Texas, you must be at least 21, have a clean psychological and criminal record, complete classroom training, and pass a shooting test. You must also have a concealed carry license.

    This is obsolete information.

    Beginning Oct. 1, 2021 Texas became a Constitutional Carry state for most venues. There remains a License to Carry permit for carry in some buildings and situations. But for most, you can open or conceal carry without any testing.

    Legal justifications for using firearms didn’t change however.

    Whenever you use “the Internet” as a source, you have to vet those original sources and dates.

  64. BIG QUESTION: How are Hispanics and American Indians treated in these stats? Included with whites? Not included at all? I see other commenters wonder about Hispanics. Federal statistics are notoriously bad about this, and in some states this kind of sloppiness can badly skew the data.

    • Replies: @Bragadocious
    @Jared Taylor

    This is an interesting story.

    https://www.propublica.org/article/if-everybodys-white-there-cant-be-any-racial-bias-the-disappearance-of-hispanic-drivers-from-traffic-records

    Cops in Louisiana stopping Hispanic drivers and purposely identifying them as white to stay out of the ACLU's cross-hairs. This is probably very common across the nation, and probably applies to more things than traffic stops.

    ProPublica even gets into an ethnographic analysis of surnames, like Unz did with his Harvard acceptance analysis.

    Now, one might say this is good for Hispanics, because their true driving habits are being hidden from public view. But it's bad because they're being pulled over! At higher rates than whites! Can't have higher rates, nope.

  65. One of the missing states in this analysis is Hawaii, which may well have the lowest black homicide rate. Most blacks in Hawaii got there through the military and thus low quality is screened out…

    Hawaii is Air Force, Navy, and Coast Guard. You have to trust these guys with expensive equipment.

    North Dakota also has military selection, primarily Air Force. Going by 1990 Census data, black children in Hawaii and North Dakota were not only more likely to be in intact families than black children elsewhere, they were more likely to be so than white children in any state. (Two other states were within the white range, and in 46 blacks had a worse figure than whites in their worst state.)

    How the recent oil booms affect this might be worth looking into, for homicide, at least. Roughnecks don’t tend to bring their children.

    …or are eccentrics who think Hawaii sounds cool and aren’t into ‘hood culture.

    Nobody since Teddy R ever thought North Dakota “cool”. It is cold, though. Two Minot residents bumped into each other on Amtrak near Chicago, and thus celebrated. They crowed “Why not Minot‽” and “Forty below keeps the riff-raff out!”

  66. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    Probably less of a problem with this CDC data, which is taken from death forms. I believe these are typically set up with the modern race/ethnicity categories. The FBI perp data comes from police departments, some of which still use the Adam-12 era LAPD system of boxes for Caucasians (broadly defined), blacks, Asians, and American Indians.

    Replies: @guest007

    Steve,

    The FBI fingerprint card DF-259 instructions state in the table labeled: RACE CODE TABLE

    there are five categories:

    External Code Literal Description (If Subject Is)

    A Asian or Pacific Islander Chinese, Japanese, Filipino, Korean, Polynesian, Indian, Indonesian, Asian Indian, Samoan, or other Pacific Islander

    B Black A person having origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa

    I American Indian or Alaskan Native American Indian, Eskimo, or Alaskan Native, or a person having origins in any of the 48 contiguous states of the United States or Alaska who maintains cultural identification through tribal affiliation or community recognition

    U Unknown Of Indeterminable Race

    W White Caucasian, Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Central or South American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race.

    See https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/guidelines-for-preparation-of-fingerprint-cards-and-association-criminal-history-information.pdf

    As a joke, I always point out that if Jesus had been arrested in the U.S. he would have been listed as being white in the documentation.

  67. @Steve Sailer
    @Jay Fink

    When I got so many people mad at me in 2005 for looking into why New Orleans had such a high murder rate (I suggested that "Let the Good Times Roll" wasn't the best state motto for African-Americans), I can recall being impressed by how low the Washington state rate was.

    Replies: @SafeNow

    When I got so many people mad at me in 2005 for looking into why New Orleans had such a high murder rate (I suggested that “Let the Good Times Roll” wasn’t the best state motto for African-Americans),

    As I have posted before, during Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans, Coast Guard rescuers were sometimes punched in the face by their victims. I have always attributed this to an attitude of hostility, but maybe face-punching, there and elsewhere, is more a celebratory “Good Times Rolling” attitude. I wonder if anyone has dared to study this. In any case, “turtle-up.” Semper paratus.

    • Replies: @ic1000
    @SafeNow

    > As I have posted before, during Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans, Coast Guard rescuers were sometimes punched in the face by their victims.

    Guess those Coasties should have left their hurricane at home.
    ;-)

  68. I lived in the hood for 25 years. I finally moved out because there was too much gunfire outside my window while I was trying to sleep. Got tired of rolling off the bed onto the floor. Best move I ever made.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @jsinton


    I lived in the hood for 25 years. I finally moved out
     
    Why'd ya wait so long? It only took me 17 years, lol.
  69. @International Jew
    The four most murderous states for blacks are contiguous — Missouri, Illinois, Indiana and Michigan.

    Replies: @stillCARealist, @Emil Nikola Richard

    gang network? Drug routes? Tell us your theories.

  70. @International Jew
    The four most murderous states for blacks are contiguous — Missouri, Illinois, Indiana and Michigan.

    Replies: @stillCARealist, @Emil Nikola Richard

    • Replies: @International Jew
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Great book. Are you alluding to the fact (which I learned from that book) that Chicago got a lot of Mississippi delta blacks because it was a direct trip by train?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  71. Off topic

    A new Plague has just been discovered. It’s Flurona. A combination of influenza and covid. Victim is described as having mild symptoms.

  72. @Almost Missouri
    @Hypnotoad666


    The black density thing seems like a potentially interesting math problem
     
    Interesting. I think the granularity would be too coarse at the state level, so you'd need to know the land area and black (black young male?) population of each county or census tract. I guess that info is available. Certainly at the county level it is.

    There could be some noise from settlement patterns within an area. For example, on paper, suburban New Jersey looks dense but in reality people are spread relatively evenly, while the desert Southwest looks empty on paper, but most people there live in relatively concentrated settlements. So the numbers can belie the reality density in these cases. Maybe that wouldn't matter for this purpose, as outside of the South, blacks tend to concentrate in urban settlements.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    Good point. The issue would be determining the relevant area for measuring “density.” Census tract seems a logical choice, though. It would make a nice thesis project for some grad student. Does spreading blacks around (all else equal) increase or decrease homicide rates overall, or does it just share the pain by spreading the homicides around and making them more inter-racial? Perhaps there is a tipping point of black density where one murder begets another until the whole mass (Southside Chicago?) “goes critical.”

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Hypnotoad666


    Perhaps there is a tipping point of black density where one murder begets another until the whole mass (Southside Chicago?) “goes critical.”
     
    The south side of Chicago was where the first nuclear chain reaction took place, so why not the blackular chain reaction too?

    Blackular Reactors: an enormous source of free energy! If only there were a way to use it for (mostly) peaceful purposes...
  73. @Hypnotoad666
    @Almost Missouri

    Good point. The issue would be determining the relevant area for measuring "density." Census tract seems a logical choice, though. It would make a nice thesis project for some grad student. Does spreading blacks around (all else equal) increase or decrease homicide rates overall, or does it just share the pain by spreading the homicides around and making them more inter-racial? Perhaps there is a tipping point of black density where one murder begets another until the whole mass (Southside Chicago?) "goes critical."

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    Perhaps there is a tipping point of black density where one murder begets another until the whole mass (Southside Chicago?) “goes critical.”

    The south side of Chicago was where the first nuclear chain reaction took place, so why not the blackular chain reaction too?

    Blackular Reactors: an enormous source of free energy! If only there were a way to use it for (mostly) peaceful purposes…

    • LOL: Hypnotoad666
  74. @Almost Missouri
    @Jack D


    People think of blacks as being African but the culture of American blacks (as we can see in their accent, diet, religion, etc.) has a lot to do with the several centuries they spent in the American South.
     
    The Albion's Seed guy has a book coming out that is meant to be like Albion's Seed but for black people:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/ethnic-backgrounds-of-the-british-invasion-groups/#comment-5080978

    To me, this looks like We WuZ KANGS for the wine-and-cheese set, but Fischer's a bright guy, so we'll see. Steve'll probably review it when it comes out.

    Replies: @Jack D

    To me, this looks like We WuZ KANGS for the wine-and-cheese set,

    That’s what I got out of the blurb:

    how enslaved Africans and their descendants enlarged American ideas of freedom in varying ways in different regions of the early United States.

    The Africans brought with them linguistic skills, novel techniques of animal husbandry and farming, and generations-old ethical principles, among other attributes.

    Somehow, “enlarged American ideas of freedom” is not really the 1st thing that comes to mind when it comes to blacks, but maybe the book has more nuance that the blurb.

    So maybe more “Hidden Figures” than “We Wuz Kangs” – “ngumbo” is an African word, therefore all of American cooking is really African cooking. Etc. It’s not that Africans didn’t contribute at all but there were a lot of other contributions which were more important – the English cooking that the settlers brought with them, Indian influences, French and Spanish influences etc. The modern tendency seems to be “we didn’t give blacks any credit for their accomplishments in the past, so in order to make up for that, going forward we are going to give them 100% credit for everything.”

    I’d especially like to know what those generations-old ethical principles were and how whites were influenced by them. The ironic thing is that a handful of the slaves were Muslims who could read and write in Arabic and were familiar with at least some Islamic law, but their white masters were not really interested in learning the fine points of the Koran and the Koran was not African to begin with.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Jack D


    So maybe more “Hidden Figures” than “We Wuz Kangs”
     
    In my estimation, Hidden Figures already is "We Wuz Kangs" for the wine-and-cheese set.
    , @Bill Jones
    @Jack D

    Seems reasonable to me.

    I wouldn't go looking for a honkie if I wanted a good recipe for Albino soup.

  75. @Almost Missouri
    @Zoos

    I couldn't hear what was said, but visually it sure looks like the shooter killed the other guy for standing his ground. So this is kind of the opposite of "stand your ground".

    Replies: @bomag, @prosa123, @zoos

    I couldn’t hear what was said, but visually it sure looks like the shooter killed the other guy for standing his ground. So this is kind of the opposite of “stand your ground”.

    So, you admit you don’t know what’s going on in the video, because you can’t hear it, because your speaker volume is set too low, yet you’re going to set me straight on “stand your ground” laws as applicable in the video you don’t understand.

    You’re remarkable.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @zoos

    So if I say the correct words, then I'm allowed to execute a man who is not advancing on me? That is remarkable. I will learn these magic words, and move to Texas.

  76. @Carol
    Some states aren't even listed! Like mine.

    And you wonder why people move to Boise.

    Replies: @TWS

    Boise has enough californicators that they’ll tip the state blue eventually

  77. @SafeNow
    @Steve Sailer


    When I got so many people mad at me in 2005 for looking into why New Orleans had such a high murder rate (I suggested that “Let the Good Times Roll” wasn’t the best state motto for African-Americans),
     
    As I have posted before, during Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans, Coast Guard rescuers were sometimes punched in the face by their victims. I have always attributed this to an attitude of hostility, but maybe face-punching, there and elsewhere, is more a celebratory “Good Times Rolling” attitude. I wonder if anyone has dared to study this. In any case, “turtle-up.” Semper paratus.

    Replies: @ic1000

    > As I have posted before, during Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans, Coast Guard rescuers were sometimes punched in the face by their victims.

    Guess those Coasties should have left their hurricane at home.
    😉

  78. @Jared Taylor
    BIG QUESTION: How are Hispanics and American Indians treated in these stats? Included with whites? Not included at all? I see other commenters wonder about Hispanics. Federal statistics are notoriously bad about this, and in some states this kind of sloppiness can badly skew the data.

    Replies: @Bragadocious

    This is an interesting story.

    https://www.propublica.org/article/if-everybodys-white-there-cant-be-any-racial-bias-the-disappearance-of-hispanic-drivers-from-traffic-records

    Cops in Louisiana stopping Hispanic drivers and purposely identifying them as white to stay out of the ACLU’s cross-hairs. This is probably very common across the nation, and probably applies to more things than traffic stops.

    ProPublica even gets into an ethnographic analysis of surnames, like Unz did with his Harvard acceptance analysis.

    Now, one might say this is good for Hispanics, because their true driving habits are being hidden from public view. But it’s bad because they’re being pulled over! At higher rates than whites! Can’t have higher rates, nope.

  79. George Floyds niece has been shot. She is going to be OK.

  80. I’ve said it before, maybe here, but I’ll say it again, “The problem is not too many guns, it’s not enough guns in the right neighborhoods.”

  81. @Jack D
    @David

    There's an argument to be made that American blacks took their violent Southern culture with them when they migrated north. People think of blacks as being African but the culture of American blacks (as we can see in their accent, diet, religion, etc.) has a lot to do with the several centuries they spent in the American South.

    So the reason there is no cline between southern blacks and northern blacks is that they are almost all really southern blacks.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Chris Mallory

    has a lot to do with the several centuries they spent in the American South.

    Which explains why African is filled with peaceful, advanced civilizations. It is all the Cracker’s fault
    that American blacks are violent.
    Though, I will admit, Central America makes Africa look peaceful.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Chris Mallory

    No, but Barbados blacks are better than Mississippi blacks.

  82. @Chris Mallory
    @Jack D


    has a lot to do with the several centuries they spent in the American South.
     
    Which explains why African is filled with peaceful, advanced civilizations. It is all the Cracker's fault
    that American blacks are violent.
    Though, I will admit, Central America makes Africa look peaceful.

    Replies: @Jack D

    No, but Barbados blacks are better than Mississippi blacks.

  83. @ATate
    @Jay Fink

    Over here in the redneck meth head side of Washington State, we had a "shooty" December with all sorts of caterwauling about it. Most of them are under 25, half the shootings were little gang bangers offing themselves. If you look at current inmates here in the county and sort by highest bail you'll see that more than half of the murderers are black.

    The African American population in my city is around 2%.

    Home of Rachel Dolezal.

    Otherwise referred to as an Aryan Nation Stronghold.

    By the way, can you please for the love of God tell our fellow Washingtonians how horrific it is over here? Remind them of how sneering and condescending they were/are about us over here. I'm pleading to everyone with tears in my eyes to quit effing move over here.

    Jesus Christ.

    Replies: @Jay Fink

    I study population trends closely. In the 2010s Washington was growing at a ridiculous rate. In the most recent Census estimate for 2021 things have changed drastically. Growth was only 0.8%, in the middle of the pack for the country. Few states were booming in population growth this past year but the top two growth states by % are Idaho and Montana. As much as we hear of Californians moving to those free states I have no doubt Washingtonians are flocking there too.

  84. @Bill Jones

    And here are the same numbers sorted by black gun homicide victimization rates:

    Firearm homicide death rates, by race: 2008-2016

    State White Black Ratio
    United States 2.1 29.1 14
    Rhode Island 0.8 9.5 12
    Washington 1.7 12.1 7
    Alaska 3.2 12.3 4
    Oregon 1.7 13.5 8
    Iowa 1.0 13.7 14
    Minnesota 0.8 15.3 20
    Colorado 1.8 16.6 9
    Massachusetts 0.6 16.8 27
    New York 0.8 18.4 23
    New Mexico 4.3 18.4 4
    Texas 3.4 18.5 5
    Virginia 1.8 18.7 11
    Arizona 3.6 20.4 6
    Georgia 2.8 20.5 7
    North Carolina 2.9 21.2 7
    Connecticut 0.9 21.4 25
    West Virginia 3.9 22.3 6
    Nevada 3.2 23.0 7
    South Carolina 3.8 24.4 6
    Kentucky 3.5 26.2 8
    Florida 3.1 26.5 9
    Kansas 2.1 27.0 13
    Mississippi 4.8 28.1 6
    Delaware 1.7 30.3 17
    Maryland 1.4 31.1 23
    New Jersey 0.7 31.7 49
    California 2.1 32.3 16
    Alabama 4.5 33.0 7
    Arkansas 4.4 33.4 8
    Tennessee 3.3 33.4 10
    Wisconsin 0.9 33.5 36
    Oklahoma 4.3 34.7 8
    Ohio 1.8 37.2 20
    Nebraska 1.4 40.7 29
    Louisiana 4.1 42.9 11
    Pennsylvania 1.5 43.3 29
    Indiana 2.1 46.1 22
    Illinois 1.1 47.9 46
    Michigan 1.5 49.1 32
    Missouri 2.8 59.4 21

    Data for 10 states and Washington, DC, were not available.
     

    Sorry for the mess But I could not see that the table (even when legible) was

    sorted by black gun homicide victimization rates
     
    Nor could I find, after an admittedly cursory glance, what, if any, the sort order was.
    Any ideas?

    Replies: @silviosilver

    It’s sorted by black gun homicide victimization rates by state, in increasing order, from Rhode Island the lowest rate (9.5) to Michigan the highest rate (59.4).

    You might have been thrown off by the first row, which is for the United States as a whole.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    @silviosilver

    Thanks, I misread,

  85. @Anonymous
    Are those parts per thousand or what? Those can't be percentages.

    Replies: @silviosilver

    Per 100k population is my guess, that being the standard unit for crime rates.

  86. @Mike Tre
    This mostly confirms what we already know, but a few questions:

    Are mestizos included or excluded in the "white" category?

    Are justifiable homicides included?

    What is ratio of clearance rates between races?

    Replies: @guest007, @res

    Considering that the data is reported before a court trial could occur, it would include data based on the judgement of law enforcement.

  87. @TWS
    You seem to be missing some States.

    Replies: @guest007

    There is a footnote about that. In states with few blacks, the ratio cannot be reliably calculated.

    • Replies: @TWS
    @guest007

    The prisons I worked at in Washington were one third white, one third Hispanic mostly illegal or children of illegals and one third black. In no way do blacks, or Hispanics for that matter make up a third of the population

    Replies: @guest007

  88. @Zoos
    To open carry in Texas, you must be at least 21, have a clean psychological and criminal record, complete classroom training, and pass a shooting test. You must also have a concealed carry license. An estimated 925,000 Texans have a concealed carry license and may choose to open carry. That's around 3% of the population.
    – From the Internet

    Texas also enjoys a "stand your ground" law that facilitates dealing with people acting like fools. I’d identify the states that boast those two particular features. One might discover a satisfying trending affect.

    Example: Looks like this fellow will not be charged.

    https://youtu.be/-7shU6sLy0c

    Replies: @AndrewR, @Almost Missouri, @Sick of Orcs, @Muggles, @res, @Mike Tre, @anonymouseperson

    Thanks. I find that surprising. For anyone else interested, some discussion of this case following this earlier comment from Zoos.
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/witness-murdering-2/#comment-5030596

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @res

    Thanks for the deeper link, which also has more video.

    Messy and complicated backstory. Apparently there is a third woman (probably the one who took the video from inside the house) who is also a local judge. She also, if I understand this correctly, is now divorcing the the black-shirted shooter, who is/was her husband, citing, perhaps among other things, that he just killed a guy. So there may or may not be any romantic/sexual connection between the shooter and the mother of the child whose father he shot. But apparently that mother is living at the same house with him and his wife the judge. Also not clear who owns the property. Also some kind of legal hanky-panky about not releasing the police records of the incident, which implies the wife-judge exerting some kind of undue influence behind the scenes.

    Maybe Texas law says this is okay, and if so, well that's up to Texans. And while the Teal-shirt guy didn't do himself a lot of favors, he did have a legal right to be there, and the Blackshirt shooter's reaction looks badly overdone even if technically legal.

  89. @Mike Tre
    This mostly confirms what we already know, but a few questions:

    Are mestizos included or excluded in the "white" category?

    Are justifiable homicides included?

    What is ratio of clearance rates between races?

    Replies: @guest007, @res

    This page has good data on clearance rates by race of victim (white or black) by state (and county!) from 1976-2019.
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/track-solved-murder-rates-united-states-n1271928

    The original source of that data has 1965-2020 and supports downloading the data (but I don’t see easily accessible victim race breakdowns).
    http://www.murderdata.org/p/blog-page.html
    http://www.murderdata.org/p/how-to.html

    If someone is interested in doing a deep dive into the FBI homicide statistics, this looks like it could be a very useful site.
    http://www.murderdata.org/p/data-docs.html

    P.S. Supposedly their data has some offender demographic information, but it is not reliably updated. See https://www.dropbox.com/s/n7moldzzqdv5jiq/HowToForMAP2018.pdf?dl=1
    Still might be useful for looking at some trends.

    • Thanks: Mike Tre, Almost Missouri
  90. @Coemgen
    Lower gun homicide rates for whites seem to align higher percentage of Irish ancestry.

    Massachusetts with a rate of 0.6, Rhode Island 0.8, Connecticut 0.9, with Maine and New Hampshire having rates not worth mentioning, are all places where St Pat's day is widely celebrated.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    Lower gun homicide rates for whites seem to align higher percentage of Irish ancestry.

    Massachusetts with a rate of 0.6, Rhode Island 0.8, Connecticut 0.9, with Maine and New Hampshire having rates not worth mentioning, are all places where St Pat’s day is widely celebrated.

    C’mon, don’t sell us short! We can mix it up … though appropriate brawling is our stock in trade.

    It’s Yankee–Puritan/Congregationalist or Quakerish (that would include Mormons, but none of their states are on the list) and the Germanics (upper midwest–Wisconsin peak Kraut–and out across the prairies) at the bottom. My guess is Irish Americans are a tick above that in the middle. Then the Scots-Irish wildmen–West Virginia and through the southern hills to Oklahoma–the shootyist whites.

    • Replies: @Coemgen
    @AnotherDad

    I guess I should be more specific. The lower gun homicide rates are associated with higher rates of Gaelic Irish ancestry but not Scots-Irish ancestry.

    Gaelic Irish ancestry is likely even higher than reported in places like Massachusetts due to Gaelic Irish passing as English (Yankees) in the past.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  91. @guest007
    @TWS

    There is a footnote about that. In states with few blacks, the ratio cannot be reliably calculated.

    Replies: @TWS

    The prisons I worked at in Washington were one third white, one third Hispanic mostly illegal or children of illegals and one third black. In no way do blacks, or Hispanics for that matter make up a third of the population

    • Replies: @guest007
    @TWS

    Washington state is listed in the tables and that is with a state that is 4% black and 12% Hispanic. However, the real number is comparing the percentage of 20 y/o males.

    The omitted states like Vermont, Wyoming, the Dakotas, Hawaii have a smaller percentage of blacks that Washington state.

  92. @AnotherDad
    Curious about their exclusions.

    Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont and the Western whitetopia North+South Dakota, Wyoming, Montana, Utah, Idaho, plus Hawaii don't make the list. Assume too few blacks for the states to have provided racial statistics--or something.

    But then Oregon--Portland's Antifa insanity notwithstanding--New Mexico and Alaska i'd also put in the "not very black" camp.

    Replies: @Shel100

    In 2017 Montpelier,Vermont had its first murder in over 100 years and you guessed it the perp was a black man named Jayveon Caballero.

  93. @zoos
    @Almost Missouri


    I couldn’t hear what was said, but visually it sure looks like the shooter killed the other guy for standing his ground. So this is kind of the opposite of “stand your ground”.

     

    So, you admit you don’t know what’s going on in the video, because you can’t hear it, because your speaker volume is set too low, yet you’re going to set me straight on "stand your ground" laws as applicable in the video you don’t understand.

    You’re remarkable.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    So if I say the correct words, then I’m allowed to execute a man who is not advancing on me? That is remarkable. I will learn these magic words, and move to Texas.

  94. @res
    @Zoos

    Thanks. I find that surprising. For anyone else interested, some discussion of this case following this earlier comment from Zoos.
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/witness-murdering-2/#comment-5030596

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    Thanks for the deeper link, which also has more video.

    Messy and complicated backstory. Apparently there is a third woman (probably the one who took the video from inside the house) who is also a local judge. She also, if I understand this correctly, is now divorcing the the black-shirted shooter, who is/was her husband, citing, perhaps among other things, that he just killed a guy. So there may or may not be any romantic/sexual connection between the shooter and the mother of the child whose father he shot. But apparently that mother is living at the same house with him and his wife the judge. Also not clear who owns the property. Also some kind of legal hanky-panky about not releasing the police records of the incident, which implies the wife-judge exerting some kind of undue influence behind the scenes.

    Maybe Texas law says this is okay, and if so, well that’s up to Texans. And while the Teal-shirt guy didn’t do himself a lot of favors, he did have a legal right to be there, and the Blackshirt shooter’s reaction looks badly overdone even if technically legal.

    • Agree: bomag
  95. @jsinton
    I lived in the hood for 25 years. I finally moved out because there was too much gunfire outside my window while I was trying to sleep. Got tired of rolling off the bed onto the floor. Best move I ever made.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    I lived in the hood for 25 years. I finally moved out

    Why’d ya wait so long? It only took me 17 years, lol.

  96. @Jay Fink
    I'm not very surprised that the blacks here in Washington State have some of the lower homicide death rates in the country. A high percentage of the blacks here are African immigrants. I think I once read in the comment section here that Africa (outside of Somalia) sends us their best. That would seem to be true. The African immigrants I meet have a lot of good qualities. They tend to be educated and have a gentleness and civility about them.

    Even the blacks who grew up here are mostly nice. My theory is WA is so far geographically removed from where most blacks live that the toxic black culture isn't as strong here. Looking at the charts, in general you could say blacks who live in Northern states outside of the rust belt have the lowest homicides.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @TWS, @ATate, @Smokey

    “The African immigrants I meet have a lot of good qualities. They tend to be educated and have a gentleness and civility about them.”

    Agreed.

    Just give them a few years living in close proximity to the inner city folks.

    We won’t be able to tell the difference.

  97. @AndrewR
    @Anonymous

    What an idiotic comment. How many "mestizos – and middle easterners and subcons for that matter" live in Alabama?

    Replies: @By-tor

    No one knows how many ‘mestizo’ illiterates live anywhere in the US, since a good 50% or more are allowed to remain inside the country illegally. They have taken over rural trailer parks, apartment complexes, churches and nearby strip malls and turned them into small Nuevo Laredos. These invaders live in a parallel society.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @By-tor

    Not my experience but keep crying loser

  98. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @International Jew

    https://www.amazon.com/Promised-Land-Migration-Changed-America/dp/0679733477

    Replies: @International Jew

    Great book. Are you alluding to the fact (which I learned from that book) that Chicago got a lot of Mississippi delta blacks because it was a direct trip by train?

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @International Jew

    And Highway 61. Lemann ought to have an appendix with a crime map. : )

  99. @By-tor
    @AndrewR

    No one knows how many 'mestizo' illiterates live anywhere in the US, since a good 50% or more are allowed to remain inside the country illegally. They have taken over rural trailer parks, apartment complexes, churches and nearby strip malls and turned them into small Nuevo Laredos. These invaders live in a parallel society.

    Replies: @AndrewR

    Not my experience but keep crying loser

  100. @AnotherDad
    @Coemgen


    Lower gun homicide rates for whites seem to align higher percentage of Irish ancestry.

    Massachusetts with a rate of 0.6, Rhode Island 0.8, Connecticut 0.9, with Maine and New Hampshire having rates not worth mentioning, are all places where St Pat’s day is widely celebrated.
     

    C'mon, don't sell us short! We can mix it up ... though appropriate brawling is our stock in trade.

    It's Yankee--Puritan/Congregationalist or Quakerish (that would include Mormons, but none of their states are on the list) and the Germanics (upper midwest--Wisconsin peak Kraut--and out across the prairies) at the bottom. My guess is Irish Americans are a tick above that in the middle. Then the Scots-Irish wildmen--West Virginia and through the southern hills to Oklahoma--the shootyist whites.

    Replies: @Coemgen

    I guess I should be more specific. The lower gun homicide rates are associated with higher rates of Gaelic Irish ancestry but not Scots-Irish ancestry.

    Gaelic Irish ancestry is likely even higher than reported in places like Massachusetts due to Gaelic Irish passing as English (Yankees) in the past.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Coemgen

    Highly Catholic states tend to have low white homicide victimization rates.

  101. What always strikes me about the data is that, as in this example, the overall rate of black homicide perps is 14 times on average. It fails to mention that the number of white people is somewhere on the order is 5.5 times the number of black people in the overall population. So the average black person is actually almost 37 times more likely to commit homicide in the USA by those figures.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @jsinton

    How does that math work?

    Replies: @jsinton

  102. @Zoos
    To open carry in Texas, you must be at least 21, have a clean psychological and criminal record, complete classroom training, and pass a shooting test. You must also have a concealed carry license. An estimated 925,000 Texans have a concealed carry license and may choose to open carry. That's around 3% of the population.
    – From the Internet

    Texas also enjoys a "stand your ground" law that facilitates dealing with people acting like fools. I’d identify the states that boast those two particular features. One might discover a satisfying trending affect.

    Example: Looks like this fellow will not be charged.

    https://youtu.be/-7shU6sLy0c

    Replies: @AndrewR, @Almost Missouri, @Sick of Orcs, @Muggles, @res, @Mike Tre, @anonymouseperson

    We discussed this case a few weeks ago. Mostly split on opinion but I think it was a bad shoot. The vic was there to pick up his son. All the shooter had to do was call the police. Instead he escalated and went to get his gun.

    If the victim’s account was correct, if he was entitled to have custody of his son at that time via court order and the mother was not releasing the child to him, then she and her shootsy boyfriend were technically committing kidnapping.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Mike Tre

    The GA jogger's killer, his dad and their completely innocent neighbor were all sent to prison because the jurors apparently didn't consider the citizen's arrest they were attempting to be lawful.

    By the same logic, this was murder because the victim had the right to use force to get his son back (even if he was on the manlet's property, and even though the victim did not even imply a threat of violence until the murderer brought out the gun)

  103. @TWS
    @guest007

    The prisons I worked at in Washington were one third white, one third Hispanic mostly illegal or children of illegals and one third black. In no way do blacks, or Hispanics for that matter make up a third of the population

    Replies: @guest007

    Washington state is listed in the tables and that is with a state that is 4% black and 12% Hispanic. However, the real number is comparing the percentage of 20 y/o males.

    The omitted states like Vermont, Wyoming, the Dakotas, Hawaii have a smaller percentage of blacks that Washington state.

  104. @Anon
    @Steve Sailer

    Covid-related poverty and riots kicked off by a white murderer will do that to big cities.

    I'm taking about the USA as a whole. Not "big citues".
    I guarantee you "big cities" had a higher murder rate than in 2021 when they were whiter in the 1970s. Not to mention a higher bomb rate.


    WHITE PEOPLE ARE THE ACTUAL TERRORISTS.

    Replies: @bomag

    …“big cities” had a higher murder rate than in 2021 when they were whiter in the 1970s.

    What you will never understand is that there is the same delta between Blacks and Whites.

  105. @Jack D
    @Almost Missouri


    To me, this looks like We WuZ KANGS for the wine-and-cheese set,
     
    That's what I got out of the blurb:

    how enslaved Africans and their descendants enlarged American ideas of freedom in varying ways in different regions of the early United States.
     

    The Africans brought with them linguistic skills, novel techniques of animal husbandry and farming, and generations-old ethical principles, among other attributes.

     

    Somehow, "enlarged American ideas of freedom" is not really the 1st thing that comes to mind when it comes to blacks, but maybe the book has more nuance that the blurb.

    So maybe more "Hidden Figures" than "We Wuz Kangs" - "ngumbo" is an African word, therefore all of American cooking is really African cooking. Etc. It's not that Africans didn't contribute at all but there were a lot of other contributions which were more important - the English cooking that the settlers brought with them, Indian influences, French and Spanish influences etc. The modern tendency seems to be "we didn't give blacks any credit for their accomplishments in the past, so in order to make up for that, going forward we are going to give them 100% credit for everything."

    I'd especially like to know what those generations-old ethical principles were and how whites were influenced by them. The ironic thing is that a handful of the slaves were Muslims who could read and write in Arabic and were familiar with at least some Islamic law, but their white masters were not really interested in learning the fine points of the Koran and the Koran was not African to begin with.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Bill Jones

    So maybe more “Hidden Figures” than “We Wuz Kangs”

    In my estimation, Hidden Figures already is “We Wuz Kangs” for the wine-and-cheese set.

    • Agree: bruce county
  106. @International Jew
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Great book. Are you alluding to the fact (which I learned from that book) that Chicago got a lot of Mississippi delta blacks because it was a direct trip by train?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    And Highway 61. Lemann ought to have an appendix with a crime map. : )

  107. A lot of the imbalance in the figures can ultimately be traced back to the US system of slavery for 250 years, which was forced incarceration of mostly blacks. Then when slavery was officially declared illegal after the Civil War, the US engaged in a system of indentured service and apartheid where blacks were kept separate in society and poor, being relegated to holding menial jobs in agriculture, as servants and caretakers and so on.

    It went on until quite recently, with desegregation only starting in the 1960s but not catching hold in the South until the 1980s. Even today, there are many remnants of this remaining in parts of the US, with the government’s War on Crime incarcerating millions of poor and blacks on trumped up charges, or under the Three Strikes Law, with a plea bargaining (ie, no access to a lawyer) and bail system that penalized the poor and disenfranchised.

    A simple way at judging how good a country is at protecting its citizens’ civil rights is to look how well it has done in eliminating poverty, which requires focus on moving people, job retraining, social security, providing housing and so on. In this area, the US does not rank very highly, while China gets top marks.

    • LOL: silviosilver
    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @the Globalist

    Sure. Anything is better than admitting the truth that race is real and it matters.

    , @International Jew
    @the Globalist


    A simple way at judging how good a country is at protecting its citizens’ civil rights is to look how well it has done in eliminating poverty,
     
    A simple way of identifying losers and loser cultures, is by whether they remain impoverished despite the opportunities available in an otherwise prosperous country.
    , @jo shmo
    @the Globalist

    Nah, the south is integrated. The north is segregated.

  108. “Presumably, some of the differences in white homicide victimization rates between Massachusetts and Mississippi are due to more Mississippi whites being shot by blacks than Massachusetts whites, since blacks make up a much higher percentage of the population in Mississippi and are somewhat more shooty. I don’t know how to estimate the impact of that factor, though. Any suggestions?”

    I don’t know how to do any high level analysis, but I think the higher percentage of whites being shot is mostly explained by the higher percentage of blacks. The leading shootey states in that list for whites being shot also happen to be the states with the highest percentage of blacks, which live in the most “mixed” way (i.e. the South). The South is not filled with high population black areas like Philadelphia. It has “pockets” everywhere, like raisins in the oatmeal. And the numbers tend to show that you’re more likely to be shot as a white person in the South.

    A lot about the history of race relations in America makes a lot of sense if you start with the proposition “Since the founding, before the Civil War and after, whites in the South have lived alongside Blacks, and Northerners have not.”

    • Replies: @Tony massey
    @Bannon

    Or northerners considered them equals but refused to live with them.
    The Southerners refused any equality to those beasts of burden but they could live alongside them.
    The difference should be plain as THE NOSE on your face.

  109. Insults. How it is done matters. Yes, I am saying that INSULTS MATTER.

    Insults can be just funny insults, tiny insults, nonspecific insults, etc that leave a victim(s) a clear way out, a way to laugh it off, or a way to say that was not really directed at me or to just shrug it off — All those kind of insults are simply, “Ok Insults”. Yawn. Got it whitey? Got it nerdboy?

    But “Not Ok Insults” are insults that leave the person feeling and thinking that the only way to deal with this insult, this incredible hurt, is to actually go hurt the other person back physically, perhaps just killing them outright, but definitely hurting them deeeeeeply, so deep that person and no other person will even THINK of hurting you like that again.

    So, I suspect that if we could put our nerdy white-man glasses on and go List & Document & Write Down just who Insulted Who, and most importantly Who gave “Not Ok Insults” to whom, you will find out very quickly why there is more violence and murder in the “black community” than the “white community”. Yes, I believe its a cultural thing. Its a cultural thing just like dueling was a cultural thing hundreds of years ago. Its a cultural thing, and you have to be in that culture to see it.

    Moreover, you would find right beneath our trusty clipboards that the entire “black community” does not give much respect “clever Insults” or “funny Insults or “Ok Insults” that gives the victim a way out…. Oh no! They respect, indeed greatly respect the person who gives “Not Ok Insults”.

    Why is that? Because they know that the minute that they heard it, 2 things have now happened (and boy is this suddenly exciting)…

    1) The person who gave the “Not Ok Insult” must now FOREVER watch his/her back cause someone is coming for you, to kill you mame you and deeeeply hurt you. – So respect!
    2) You pity the insult victim, say nothing because you don’t want to be in their shoes and you know they MUST do “something” back. – So Exciting!

    And with our trusty white-man nerd glasses and dusty clipboards, we might be able to calculate, quantify and do the psychology to understand that everyone else has agreed, to “”not snitch””. Why? Cause you don’t know what it is about, number one, and the LAST thing you want to do is snitch and get a “Not Ok Insult” leveled out against you and then suddenly you are that pitiful person who must now “do something”. You keep your mouth shut. Shut Shut Shut. When police ask what happened, you LOUDLY don’t know and you quickly remove yourself from anyone asking questions. You RUN from it. You don’t want a “beef” with nobody.

    Yes its a “cultural thing”, much like dueling was a few hundred years ago.

    • Thanks: Tony massey
    • Replies: @Trevor
    @Treg

    It seems that most white people who carry guns do so legally and rarely use them.

    Whereas most black individuals that carry guns do so illegally and use them at the slightest provocation, like an insult.

    I do not know the percentage of white people who carry guns versus the percentage of negroes who do so, but I suspect the negro percentage is much greater.

  110. This just in

    George Floyd’s 4-year-old niece, Arianna Delane, shot while sleeping in her bed

    https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/george-floyds-4-year-old-niece-arianna-delane-shot-while-sleeping-in-her-bed/ar-AASvBtB?li=AAggNb9

  111. @silviosilver
    @Bill Jones

    It's sorted by black gun homicide victimization rates by state, in increasing order, from Rhode Island the lowest rate (9.5) to Michigan the highest rate (59.4).

    You might have been thrown off by the first row, which is for the United States as a whole.

    Replies: @Bill Jones

    Thanks, I misread,

  112. @Jack D
    @Almost Missouri


    To me, this looks like We WuZ KANGS for the wine-and-cheese set,
     
    That's what I got out of the blurb:

    how enslaved Africans and their descendants enlarged American ideas of freedom in varying ways in different regions of the early United States.
     

    The Africans brought with them linguistic skills, novel techniques of animal husbandry and farming, and generations-old ethical principles, among other attributes.

     

    Somehow, "enlarged American ideas of freedom" is not really the 1st thing that comes to mind when it comes to blacks, but maybe the book has more nuance that the blurb.

    So maybe more "Hidden Figures" than "We Wuz Kangs" - "ngumbo" is an African word, therefore all of American cooking is really African cooking. Etc. It's not that Africans didn't contribute at all but there were a lot of other contributions which were more important - the English cooking that the settlers brought with them, Indian influences, French and Spanish influences etc. The modern tendency seems to be "we didn't give blacks any credit for their accomplishments in the past, so in order to make up for that, going forward we are going to give them 100% credit for everything."

    I'd especially like to know what those generations-old ethical principles were and how whites were influenced by them. The ironic thing is that a handful of the slaves were Muslims who could read and write in Arabic and were familiar with at least some Islamic law, but their white masters were not really interested in learning the fine points of the Koran and the Koran was not African to begin with.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Bill Jones

    Seems reasonable to me.

    I wouldn’t go looking for a honkie if I wanted a good recipe for Albino soup.

  113. @jsinton
    What always strikes me about the data is that, as in this example, the overall rate of black homicide perps is 14 times on average. It fails to mention that the number of white people is somewhere on the order is 5.5 times the number of black people in the overall population. So the average black person is actually almost 37 times more likely to commit homicide in the USA by those figures.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    How does that math work?

    • Replies: @jsinton
    @Steve Sailer

    The data is not on a "per capita" basis as far as I can see, simply on total numbers, or in this case "numbers per 100,000". If we assume there is 40 million black people in American, and 220 million white people, then there is 5.5 times more white people than black people. So that means the average state ratio of 1 to 14 white vs black actually means the average black person is 77 times more likely to commit murder with a handgun since 14 times 5.5 equals 77 more handgun murders on a per capita basis. Or in the case of NJ, that would mean the average black person is 269 times more likely to commit murder by handgun than the average white. Correct me if I'm wrong since I don't want to spout horrible nonsense, but if I'm right the situation is much worse than it seems by this data.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  114. @Coemgen
    @AnotherDad

    I guess I should be more specific. The lower gun homicide rates are associated with higher rates of Gaelic Irish ancestry but not Scots-Irish ancestry.

    Gaelic Irish ancestry is likely even higher than reported in places like Massachusetts due to Gaelic Irish passing as English (Yankees) in the past.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Highly Catholic states tend to have low white homicide victimization rates.

    • Thanks: Coemgen
  115. @the Globalist
    A lot of the imbalance in the figures can ultimately be traced back to the US system of slavery for 250 years, which was forced incarceration of mostly blacks. Then when slavery was officially declared illegal after the Civil War, the US engaged in a system of indentured service and apartheid where blacks were kept separate in society and poor, being relegated to holding menial jobs in agriculture, as servants and caretakers and so on.

    It went on until quite recently, with desegregation only starting in the 1960s but not catching hold in the South until the 1980s. Even today, there are many remnants of this remaining in parts of the US, with the government's War on Crime incarcerating millions of poor and blacks on trumped up charges, or under the Three Strikes Law, with a plea bargaining (ie, no access to a lawyer) and bail system that penalized the poor and disenfranchised.

    A simple way at judging how good a country is at protecting its citizens' civil rights is to look how well it has done in eliminating poverty, which requires focus on moving people, job retraining, social security, providing housing and so on. In this area, the US does not rank very highly, while China gets top marks.

    Replies: @silviosilver, @International Jew, @jo shmo

    Sure. Anything is better than admitting the truth that race is real and it matters.

  116. @Bannon
    "Presumably, some of the differences in white homicide victimization rates between Massachusetts and Mississippi are due to more Mississippi whites being shot by blacks than Massachusetts whites, since blacks make up a much higher percentage of the population in Mississippi and are somewhat more shooty. I don’t know how to estimate the impact of that factor, though. Any suggestions?"

    I don't know how to do any high level analysis, but I think the higher percentage of whites being shot is mostly explained by the higher percentage of blacks. The leading shootey states in that list for whites being shot also happen to be the states with the highest percentage of blacks, which live in the most "mixed" way (i.e. the South). The South is not filled with high population black areas like Philadelphia. It has "pockets" everywhere, like raisins in the oatmeal. And the numbers tend to show that you're more likely to be shot as a white person in the South.

    A lot about the history of race relations in America makes a lot of sense if you start with the proposition "Since the founding, before the Civil War and after, whites in the South have lived alongside Blacks, and Northerners have not."

    Replies: @Tony massey

    Or northerners considered them equals but refused to live with them.
    The Southerners refused any equality to those beasts of burden but they could live alongside them.
    The difference should be plain as THE NOSE on your face.

  117. @Treg
    Insults. How it is done matters. Yes, I am saying that INSULTS MATTER.

    Insults can be just funny insults, tiny insults, nonspecific insults, etc that leave a victim(s) a clear way out, a way to laugh it off, or a way to say that was not really directed at me or to just shrug it off --- All those kind of insults are simply, "Ok Insults". Yawn. Got it whitey? Got it nerdboy?

    But "Not Ok Insults" are insults that leave the person feeling and thinking that the only way to deal with this insult, this incredible hurt, is to actually go hurt the other person back physically, perhaps just killing them outright, but definitely hurting them deeeeeeply, so deep that person and no other person will even THINK of hurting you like that again.

    So, I suspect that if we could put our nerdy white-man glasses on and go List & Document & Write Down just who Insulted Who, and most importantly Who gave "Not Ok Insults" to whom, you will find out very quickly why there is more violence and murder in the "black community" than the "white community". Yes, I believe its a cultural thing. Its a cultural thing just like dueling was a cultural thing hundreds of years ago. Its a cultural thing, and you have to be in that culture to see it.

    Moreover, you would find right beneath our trusty clipboards that the entire "black community" does not give much respect "clever Insults" or "funny Insults or "Ok Insults" that gives the victim a way out.... Oh no! They respect, indeed greatly respect the person who gives "Not Ok Insults".

    Why is that? Because they know that the minute that they heard it, 2 things have now happened (and boy is this suddenly exciting)...

    1) The person who gave the "Not Ok Insult" must now FOREVER watch his/her back cause someone is coming for you, to kill you mame you and deeeeply hurt you. - So respect!
    2) You pity the insult victim, say nothing because you don't want to be in their shoes and you know they MUST do "something" back. - So Exciting!

    And with our trusty white-man nerd glasses and dusty clipboards, we might be able to calculate, quantify and do the psychology to understand that everyone else has agreed, to ""not snitch"". Why? Cause you don't know what it is about, number one, and the LAST thing you want to do is snitch and get a "Not Ok Insult" leveled out against you and then suddenly you are that pitiful person who must now "do something". You keep your mouth shut. Shut Shut Shut. When police ask what happened, you LOUDLY don't know and you quickly remove yourself from anyone asking questions. You RUN from it. You don't want a "beef" with nobody.

    Yes its a "cultural thing", much like dueling was a few hundred years ago.

    Replies: @Trevor

    It seems that most white people who carry guns do so legally and rarely use them.

    Whereas most black individuals that carry guns do so illegally and use them at the slightest provocation, like an insult.

    I do not know the percentage of white people who carry guns versus the percentage of negroes who do so, but I suspect the negro percentage is much greater.

  118. @Steve Sailer
    @jsinton

    How does that math work?

    Replies: @jsinton

    The data is not on a “per capita” basis as far as I can see, simply on total numbers, or in this case “numbers per 100,000”. If we assume there is 40 million black people in American, and 220 million white people, then there is 5.5 times more white people than black people. So that means the average state ratio of 1 to 14 white vs black actually means the average black person is 77 times more likely to commit murder with a handgun since 14 times 5.5 equals 77 more handgun murders on a per capita basis. Or in the case of NJ, that would mean the average black person is 269 times more likely to commit murder by handgun than the average white. Correct me if I’m wrong since I don’t want to spout horrible nonsense, but if I’m right the situation is much worse than it seems by this data.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @jsinton

    Why wouldn't it mean the racial ratio is 14 to 1?

    Replies: @jsinton

  119. @jsinton
    @Steve Sailer

    The data is not on a "per capita" basis as far as I can see, simply on total numbers, or in this case "numbers per 100,000". If we assume there is 40 million black people in American, and 220 million white people, then there is 5.5 times more white people than black people. So that means the average state ratio of 1 to 14 white vs black actually means the average black person is 77 times more likely to commit murder with a handgun since 14 times 5.5 equals 77 more handgun murders on a per capita basis. Or in the case of NJ, that would mean the average black person is 269 times more likely to commit murder by handgun than the average white. Correct me if I'm wrong since I don't want to spout horrible nonsense, but if I'm right the situation is much worse than it seems by this data.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Why wouldn’t it mean the racial ratio is 14 to 1?

    • Replies: @jsinton
    @Steve Sailer

    It's assuming correct the US average of 2.1 white and 29.1 black, which is about 1 to 14, as indicated in your first table, first line. These FBI murder figures are typically "per 100,000" inhabitants. So it does not take into account "per capita" figures if I am reading them correctly. To get the per capita you take the "14" and multiply by 5.5 since the ratio of total whites to blacks is 5.5 to 1, to obtain 1 to 77 per capita of white homicide by gun to black HbG.

    If the figures are already on a "per capita" basis, then I am wrong, but that's not how I interpret them.

    To look at other data, I read your post some time ago about the number of white on black violent crime vs black on white violent crime FBI data. The total white on black figure was about 52,000. The total black on white figure was about 580,000. On the surface, one might be tempted to say the ratio is about 11 black on white crimes to 1 white on black. Again, this didn't take into account "per capita". So if I multiply 11 black crimes times the ratio number of 5.5, I get a per capita ratio of 60 to 1 black violent crimes on whites as opposed to white on black violent. Meaning the average black person is 60 times more likely to do violence to whites as opposed to whites doing violence to blacks.

    Replies: @Peter Johnson

  120. @the Globalist
    A lot of the imbalance in the figures can ultimately be traced back to the US system of slavery for 250 years, which was forced incarceration of mostly blacks. Then when slavery was officially declared illegal after the Civil War, the US engaged in a system of indentured service and apartheid where blacks were kept separate in society and poor, being relegated to holding menial jobs in agriculture, as servants and caretakers and so on.

    It went on until quite recently, with desegregation only starting in the 1960s but not catching hold in the South until the 1980s. Even today, there are many remnants of this remaining in parts of the US, with the government's War on Crime incarcerating millions of poor and blacks on trumped up charges, or under the Three Strikes Law, with a plea bargaining (ie, no access to a lawyer) and bail system that penalized the poor and disenfranchised.

    A simple way at judging how good a country is at protecting its citizens' civil rights is to look how well it has done in eliminating poverty, which requires focus on moving people, job retraining, social security, providing housing and so on. In this area, the US does not rank very highly, while China gets top marks.

    Replies: @silviosilver, @International Jew, @jo shmo

    A simple way at judging how good a country is at protecting its citizens’ civil rights is to look how well it has done in eliminating poverty,

    A simple way of identifying losers and loser cultures, is by whether they remain impoverished despite the opportunities available in an otherwise prosperous country.

    • Agree: William Badwhite
  121. @Steve Sailer
    @jsinton

    Why wouldn't it mean the racial ratio is 14 to 1?

    Replies: @jsinton

    It’s assuming correct the US average of 2.1 white and 29.1 black, which is about 1 to 14, as indicated in your first table, first line. These FBI murder figures are typically “per 100,000” inhabitants. So it does not take into account “per capita” figures if I am reading them correctly. To get the per capita you take the “14” and multiply by 5.5 since the ratio of total whites to blacks is 5.5 to 1, to obtain 1 to 77 per capita of white homicide by gun to black HbG.

    If the figures are already on a “per capita” basis, then I am wrong, but that’s not how I interpret them.

    To look at other data, I read your post some time ago about the number of white on black violent crime vs black on white violent crime FBI data. The total white on black figure was about 52,000. The total black on white figure was about 580,000. On the surface, one might be tempted to say the ratio is about 11 black on white crimes to 1 white on black. Again, this didn’t take into account “per capita”. So if I multiply 11 black crimes times the ratio number of 5.5, I get a per capita ratio of 60 to 1 black violent crimes on whites as opposed to white on black violent. Meaning the average black person is 60 times more likely to do violence to whites as opposed to whites doing violence to blacks.

    • Replies: @Peter Johnson
    @jsinton

    The figures are already on a per-capita basis.

    Replies: @jsinton

  122. “Presumably, some of the differences in white homicide victimization rates between Massachusetts and Mississippi are due to more Mississippi whites being shot by blacks than Massachusetts whites, since blacks make up a much higher percentage of the population in Mississippi and are somewhat more shooty. I don’t know how to estimate the impact of that factor, though. Any suggestions?”

    This may not fit the statistical analysis methods you favor, but perhaps there’s a white-ethnic explanation. Shooty white states have lots of ancestry from historically violent Scotland, Ireland, and the northern English borderlands. Less shooty white states have ancestry from the more historically docile WASPs, southern/western Germans, and Dutch.
    Appalachia was always a more violent region than New England, even without black-on-white or white-on-black crime.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Dmitri Fyodorovich

    Catholics and Jews aren't very shooty: e.g., New Jersey whites.

    Replies: @silviosilver, @Dmitri Fyodorovich

  123. @prosa123
    @Arclight

    More recently, paying people to stay out of the workforce for an extended time during the pandemic gave those who most need to be kept out of trouble plenty of opportunity to buy flashy new goods and leisure time to pursue retaliatory violence over petty disputes.

    Recent research from the Department of Labor and private sector economists has largely debunked the common notion that enhanced unemployment benefits caused people to drop out of the labor force. Participation rates have fallen mostly because of a surge in older workers taking early retirement. A secondary factor consisted of women having to quit their jobs and become housewives after schools and day care centers shut down.

    Replies: @Arclight, @Johann Ricke

    Recent research from the Department of Labor and private sector economists has largely debunked the common notion that enhanced unemployment benefits caused people to drop out of the labor force. Participation rates have fallen mostly because of a surge in older workers taking early retirement. A secondary factor consisted of women having to quit their jobs and become housewives after schools and day care centers shut down.

    Given the way stats have become politicized in the woke era, I have to wonder if these conclusions are replicable. If someone else did the counting, would the results be the same? That’s not even factoring in the increasing intrusion of unqualified quota hires into roles they lack the raw ability, never mind the skills, to fill.

  124. @jsinton
    @Steve Sailer

    It's assuming correct the US average of 2.1 white and 29.1 black, which is about 1 to 14, as indicated in your first table, first line. These FBI murder figures are typically "per 100,000" inhabitants. So it does not take into account "per capita" figures if I am reading them correctly. To get the per capita you take the "14" and multiply by 5.5 since the ratio of total whites to blacks is 5.5 to 1, to obtain 1 to 77 per capita of white homicide by gun to black HbG.

    If the figures are already on a "per capita" basis, then I am wrong, but that's not how I interpret them.

    To look at other data, I read your post some time ago about the number of white on black violent crime vs black on white violent crime FBI data. The total white on black figure was about 52,000. The total black on white figure was about 580,000. On the surface, one might be tempted to say the ratio is about 11 black on white crimes to 1 white on black. Again, this didn't take into account "per capita". So if I multiply 11 black crimes times the ratio number of 5.5, I get a per capita ratio of 60 to 1 black violent crimes on whites as opposed to white on black violent. Meaning the average black person is 60 times more likely to do violence to whites as opposed to whites doing violence to blacks.

    Replies: @Peter Johnson

    The figures are already on a per-capita basis.

    • Replies: @jsinton
    @Peter Johnson

    I don't think they are. Typical FBI murder rate figures are "per 100,000" inhabitants. Since Steve does not give us this key detail, then I assume it's just like all the other FBI data I've ever seen. But I'm sure if Steve were to return to the source material that particular detail would be given one way or another.

  125. @Mike Tre
    @Zoos

    We discussed this case a few weeks ago. Mostly split on opinion but I think it was a bad shoot. The vic was there to pick up his son. All the shooter had to do was call the police. Instead he escalated and went to get his gun.

    If the victim's account was correct, if he was entitled to have custody of his son at that time via court order and the mother was not releasing the child to him, then she and her shootsy boyfriend were technically committing kidnapping.

    Replies: @AndrewR

    The GA jogger’s killer, his dad and their completely innocent neighbor were all sent to prison because the jurors apparently didn’t consider the citizen’s arrest they were attempting to be lawful.

    By the same logic, this was murder because the victim had the right to use force to get his son back (even if he was on the manlet’s property, and even though the victim did not even imply a threat of violence until the murderer brought out the gun)

  126. @Dmitri Fyodorovich
    "Presumably, some of the differences in white homicide victimization rates between Massachusetts and Mississippi are due to more Mississippi whites being shot by blacks than Massachusetts whites, since blacks make up a much higher percentage of the population in Mississippi and are somewhat more shooty. I don’t know how to estimate the impact of that factor, though. Any suggestions?"
     
     This may not fit the statistical analysis methods you favor, but perhaps there's a white-ethnic explanation. Shooty white states have lots of ancestry from historically violent Scotland, Ireland, and the northern English borderlands. Less shooty white states have ancestry from the more historically docile WASPs, southern/western Germans, and Dutch.
    Appalachia was always a more violent region than New England, even without black-on-white or white-on-black crime.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Catholics and Jews aren’t very shooty: e.g., New Jersey whites.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @Steve Sailer

    Also, shooty is one thing. But shooty and looty in the same package, that's another deal entirely.

    , @Dmitri Fyodorovich
    @Steve Sailer

    Jews and (some) Catholics aren't. But Scots-Irish Presbyterians certainly are. And I think you're under-crediting the violent capacity of Catholics. Irish and Italian Catholics briefly dominated the criminal scene in the northeast.
    Again, though, Massachusetts and RI have more Catholic whites than Mississippi, which has more Appalachian derivates. I don't really have a recommendation on how to incorporate that into a statistical analysis without digging through old immigration records to determine which white ethnicities dominate in which states or regions. American Nations by Colin Woodard has a pretty good big-picture breakdown of regional variance, but i don't know how you would make a mathematical model of white shootiness by percentage of ethnicities.

  127. @Steve Sailer
    @Dmitri Fyodorovich

    Catholics and Jews aren't very shooty: e.g., New Jersey whites.

    Replies: @silviosilver, @Dmitri Fyodorovich

    Also, shooty is one thing. But shooty and looty in the same package, that’s another deal entirely.

  128. @Steve Sailer
    @Dmitri Fyodorovich

    Catholics and Jews aren't very shooty: e.g., New Jersey whites.

    Replies: @silviosilver, @Dmitri Fyodorovich

    Jews and (some) Catholics aren’t. But Scots-Irish Presbyterians certainly are. And I think you’re under-crediting the violent capacity of Catholics. Irish and Italian Catholics briefly dominated the criminal scene in the northeast.
    Again, though, Massachusetts and RI have more Catholic whites than Mississippi, which has more Appalachian derivates. I don’t really have a recommendation on how to incorporate that into a statistical analysis without digging through old immigration records to determine which white ethnicities dominate in which states or regions. American Nations by Colin Woodard has a pretty good big-picture breakdown of regional variance, but i don’t know how you would make a mathematical model of white shootiness by percentage of ethnicities.

  129. @Peter Johnson
    @jsinton

    The figures are already on a per-capita basis.

    Replies: @jsinton

    I don’t think they are. Typical FBI murder rate figures are “per 100,000” inhabitants. Since Steve does not give us this key detail, then I assume it’s just like all the other FBI data I’ve ever seen. But I’m sure if Steve were to return to the source material that particular detail would be given one way or another.

  130. @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    Except that the murder rate in the biggest cities went up 45% in from 2019 to 2021.

    Replies: @Anon, @Truth

    So did the murder rate in Phoenix, Tucson, Spokane, Albuquerque, Mesa, AZ and Salt Lake City.

  131. @Anon
    Steve, how are you coming to this hairbrained logic that it's blacks shooting whites that drives higher death rates in Mississipi?

    The ratio between white and black SHOOTERS is much lower than the ratio of white and black VICTIMS, in just about every state!


    If anything this confirms what I've been saying all along: it's white people doing all the killing in America, and unlike blacks, they don't get caught.

    This is why the national murder rate is declining as the white population ages and declines, particulafly as the younger boomers get old.

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/asher-ucr-2016-0922-1-corrected.png

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @silviosilver, @ic1000, @rebel yell

    The ratio between white and black SHOOTERS is much lower than the ratio of white and black VICTIMS, in just about every state!

    Where’s your data for white and black shooters? The data on this thread is about the race of victims.
    If blacks are a higher percent of known victims than they are of known shooters, that indicates that a disproportionately high number of unsolved murder cases are blacks shooting blacks, not whites shooting blacks.

    it’s white people doing all the killing in America, and unlike blacks, they don’t get caught.

    Evidence on the ground is that black criminals don’t get caught because the black “community” will not cooperate with police investigations. If blacks in the neighborhood saw a white guy kill a black guy it would be all over the media.

  132. @Zoos
    To open carry in Texas, you must be at least 21, have a clean psychological and criminal record, complete classroom training, and pass a shooting test. You must also have a concealed carry license. An estimated 925,000 Texans have a concealed carry license and may choose to open carry. That's around 3% of the population.
    – From the Internet

    Texas also enjoys a "stand your ground" law that facilitates dealing with people acting like fools. I’d identify the states that boast those two particular features. One might discover a satisfying trending affect.

    Example: Looks like this fellow will not be charged.

    https://youtu.be/-7shU6sLy0c

    Replies: @AndrewR, @Almost Missouri, @Sick of Orcs, @Muggles, @res, @Mike Tre, @anonymouseperson

    No possible way was that justified.

  133. @Almost Missouri
    @David


    There’s a strong north/south incline in white homicide rates but not in black rates.
     
    While it is not north/south, there is something of cline in black shooting stats. It goes from the Rust Belt at the high end, down through the Old South, and then to the Whitopia states at the bottom (i.e., Pacific NW, New England, rural non-Rusty Midwest).

    Replies: @jo shmo

    It looks like racial segregation.

    South is not segregated. Blacks are everywhere mostly shooting one another but also others.

    North is more segregated. Blacks are in their area shooting one another but others not so much.

  134. @the Globalist
    A lot of the imbalance in the figures can ultimately be traced back to the US system of slavery for 250 years, which was forced incarceration of mostly blacks. Then when slavery was officially declared illegal after the Civil War, the US engaged in a system of indentured service and apartheid where blacks were kept separate in society and poor, being relegated to holding menial jobs in agriculture, as servants and caretakers and so on.

    It went on until quite recently, with desegregation only starting in the 1960s but not catching hold in the South until the 1980s. Even today, there are many remnants of this remaining in parts of the US, with the government's War on Crime incarcerating millions of poor and blacks on trumped up charges, or under the Three Strikes Law, with a plea bargaining (ie, no access to a lawyer) and bail system that penalized the poor and disenfranchised.

    A simple way at judging how good a country is at protecting its citizens' civil rights is to look how well it has done in eliminating poverty, which requires focus on moving people, job retraining, social security, providing housing and so on. In this area, the US does not rank very highly, while China gets top marks.

    Replies: @silviosilver, @International Jew, @jo shmo

    Nah, the south is integrated. The north is segregated.

  135. Presumably, some of the differences in white homicide victimization rates between Massachusetts and Mississippi are due to more Mississippi whites being shot by blacks than Massachusetts whites, since blacks make up a much higher percentage of the population in Mississippi and are somewhat more shooty.

    Northeast blacks are extremely urban, which makes it easy for whites to completely avoid them. E.g., by seeking out excellent school districts (< 3% black).

    Starting in Maryland or maybe Delaware and moving southward, blacks are urban, suburban and rural.

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