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A Boring Theory of Jeffrey Epstein
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From The Spectator:

The Ghislaine Maxwell I know
Like every other arrested person, she must be presumed innocent
Alan Dershowitz
July 3, 2020

My wife and I were introduced to Ghislaine Maxwell by Sir Evelyn and Lady Lynne de Rothschild, and we subsequently met her on several occasions — generally in the presence of prominent people such as Bill and Hillary Clinton, Nobel Prize-winning scientists, presidents of universities, and prominent academic and business people. We never saw her do anything inappropriate. We knew her only as Jeffrey Epstein’s thirty-something girlfriend. …

What if … Jeffrey Epstein was a genial conman from the Outer Boroughs whose schtick was that he could talk science and math better than 99% of all the other conmen can?

We live in a society that holds up The Scientist as an icon of moral integrity. So what better cover for a grifter than claiming to be, at heart, a fellow who loves science most of all, but who got detoured off his natural career path by his knack for making vast amounts of money for his investors? There actually are a few genius investors who are like that, such as Jim Simons, founder of Renaissance Technologies Hedge Fund. So why not pretend to be another one, assuming he can pull off the act?

And anytime you might start to wonder — Is Jeffrey really just a pimp running a jailbait brothel? — then you can hush your doubts by telling yourself: Scientisty guys aren’t like that.

It is Settled Science!

 
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  1. While I appreciate the usefulness of preferring more boring theories whenever possible, this is not a good theory.

    • Agree: trelane, Kronos, 22pp22
    • Replies: @Kronos
    @Aeoli Pera

    I’m surprised no one has really dug into Epstein’s fascination with eugenics. There’s enough material surrounding Epstein to at least play around with a “The Boys from Brazil” kind of secret project. (But one that doesn’t involve cloning Hitler.)

    https://youtu.be/w1NFdDG_GsA

    Surely, Bill Clinton left enough semen stains around Little St. James to create a generation of masterclass political strategists.

  2. If you’re trying to calm accusations and conspiracy theorizing, name dropping a Rothschild is a bad way to go about it. Yeesh, who would have thought that Alan Dershowitz was so shameless!

    • Replies: @Bubba
    @Ian Smith


    Yeesh, who would have thought that Alan Dershowitz was so shameless!
     
    LOL! Now that deserves the iSteve Sarcastic Comment of the Year!
    , @Sam Malone
    @Ian Smith

    And I'm sure Bill and Hill really appreciated him namedropping them so early on in the first paragraph.

    , @anonymous
    @Ian Smith


    name dropping a Rothschild is a bad way to go about it.
     
    Think this is what is increasingly referred to by the J-Woke as a FLEX.

    Yes this is bare naked chutzpah so obvious that it screams to be pointed out or even mocked. But point is that Jews are counting on you won't because doing so would mean having the entire Jewish power structure come down on you with their most controlled goyim deep state button men ie the Clintons out in front leading the way.

    Jews have created a media environment where a goyim even mentioning a Rothschild in any unfavorable light means they can destroy you as a insane neo-nazi mouth breathing conspiracy theorist.

    Congressman Adam Schiff can appear with his kid in a Mossad tee-shirt on social media and the only folks who will mention it are David Duke, Stormfront and Unz,

    Tells you something!!!

    Replies: @Art Deco

    , @Testing12
    @Ian Smith

    It wasn't a name drop, it was a threat. Like that weird Kevin Spacey video.

  3. A better example is Alfred Lee Loomis and his Tuxedo Park lab

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Lee_Loomis

    • Thanks: Not Raul, Mike Tre, Gabe Ruth
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    Thanks. Quite a guy.

    Replies: @Joe, Averaged

    , @Not Raul
    @Anon

    Thanks, that’s interesting.

    However, Loomis really was a scientist; and I don’t believe that he was a conman. Epstein was the opposite.

    Does anyone have a theory about why Barr’s father got Epstein a teaching job?

    Replies: @Escher, @Mr. Anon, @CJ

    , @wren
    @Anon

    His great grandson is Reed Hastings, the Netflix guy.

  4. Is the conspiracy theory that Miss Maxwell and the late Jeffrey Epstein have/had some dirt on Alan Dershowitz? Yes, that is likely, just from seeing his glowing defense of the lady, but, yes, boring.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Yeah. Recently, Dershowitz has been useful. It'll be a shame if did what he's accused of and gets cancelled. And saying nice things--in fact, anything--about Mexwell certainly looks suspicious. If Dershowitz is innocent, he risks making everyone distrust him.

    , @Anon
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Dershowitz is an ardent Zionist. If there is any inappropriate activity on his part in regards to Jeffery Epstein and Maxwell, I'd suspect it would be in the form of legal advice given to them. Perhaps Mr. Dershowitz was aware of a Mossad connection and did everything in his power to further its aims on behalf of Israel's interests? It was clearly an intelligence operation according to the former labor secretary. That would be my guess. Doubt Dershowitz did anything sexual. He wouldn't be that stupid.

    Replies: @Testing12

  5. If I were an Indian call-center scammer, I would pay good money for a list of the people who believe this article.

  6. Dershowitz is a veritable Duddy Kravitz.

  7. @Anon
    A better example is Alfred Lee Loomis and his Tuxedo Park lab

    https://images.bwbcovers.com/068/Tuxedo-Park-9780684872872.jpg

    https://hvmag.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2019/01/KW-Loomis-Lab_Photo-Credit_Courtesy-of-Tuxedo-Hudson-Company.jpg

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Lee_Loomis

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Not Raul, @wren

    Thanks. Quite a guy.

    • Replies: @Joe, Averaged
    @Steve Sailer

    What about F.A. Krupp and his isle of Capri adventures?
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Alfred_Krupp#Scandal_and_death

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  8. Anonymous[425] • Disclaimer says:

    Jewish Grooming Gang.

  9. Alan Dershowitz: Don’t associate me with Ghislaine Maxwell!

    Ghislaine Maxwell: Don’t associate me with Alan Dershowitz!

  10. @Anon
    A better example is Alfred Lee Loomis and his Tuxedo Park lab

    https://images.bwbcovers.com/068/Tuxedo-Park-9780684872872.jpg

    https://hvmag.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2019/01/KW-Loomis-Lab_Photo-Credit_Courtesy-of-Tuxedo-Hudson-Company.jpg

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Lee_Loomis

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Not Raul, @wren

    Thanks, that’s interesting.

    However, Loomis really was a scientist; and I don’t believe that he was a conman. Epstein was the opposite.

    Does anyone have a theory about why Barr’s father got Epstein a teaching job?

    • Replies: @Escher
    @Not Raul


    Does anyone have a theory about why Barr’s father got Epstein a teaching job?
     
    Epstein-Barr syndrome.
    , @Mr. Anon
    @Not Raul


    Does anyone have a theory about why Barr’s father got Epstein a teaching job?
     
    He really needed a teacher?

    Replies: @Not Raul

    , @CJ
    @Not Raul

    I tried to research that one. There was an NYT article from 1974 describing the senior Barr’s departure from the school after a series of internal disagreements in January 1974. He was gone no later than February. Epstein began teaching at Dalton in September 1974. It’s not clear what involvement, if any, Barr Sr. had with Epstein.

    https://www.nytimes.com/1974/02/20/archives/barr-quits-dalton-school-post-charging-trustees-interference.html

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/12/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-dalton-teacher.htm

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  11. @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    Thanks. Quite a guy.

    Replies: @Joe, Averaged

    What about F.A. Krupp and his isle of Capri adventures?
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Alfred_Krupp#Scandal_and_death

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Joe, Averaged

    Didn't a Roman Emperor (Tiberius?) use the island of Capri for roughly the same thing?

    Replies: @Joe, Averaged, @donut

  12. So why not pretend to be another one, assuming you can pull off the act?

    Elizabeth Holmes had that nailed, almost.

    • LOL: Bardon Kaldian
    • Replies: @Not Raul
    @Bubba

    It’s remarkable how little due diligence “smart” rich people do when they’re dealing with “charming” people from affluent backgrounds.

  13. @Joe, Averaged
    @Steve Sailer

    What about F.A. Krupp and his isle of Capri adventures?
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Alfred_Krupp#Scandal_and_death

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Didn’t a Roman Emperor (Tiberius?) use the island of Capri for roughly the same thing?

    • Agree: Gordo
    • Replies: @Joe, Averaged
    @Steve Sailer

    Right!

    , @donut
    @Steve Sailer

    Yes , but you know that . If we can't have a Vespasian and a Titus then we shall have a Caligula .

  14. @Anon
    A better example is Alfred Lee Loomis and his Tuxedo Park lab

    https://images.bwbcovers.com/068/Tuxedo-Park-9780684872872.jpg

    https://hvmag.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2019/01/KW-Loomis-Lab_Photo-Credit_Courtesy-of-Tuxedo-Hudson-Company.jpg

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Lee_Loomis

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Not Raul, @wren

    His great grandson is Reed Hastings, the Netflix guy.

  15. @Ian Smith
    If you’re trying to calm accusations and conspiracy theorizing, name dropping a Rothschild is a bad way to go about it. Yeesh, who would have thought that Alan Dershowitz was so shameless!

    Replies: @Bubba, @Sam Malone, @anonymous, @Testing12

    Yeesh, who would have thought that Alan Dershowitz was so shameless!

    LOL! Now that deserves the iSteve Sarcastic Comment of the Year!

    • Thanks: Ian Smith
  16. My wife and I were introduced to Ghislaine Maxwell by Sir Evelyn and Lady Lynne de Rothschild

    Seems legit

  17. @Achmed E. Newman
    Is the conspiracy theory that Miss Maxwell and the late Jeffrey Epstein have/had some dirt on Alan Dershowitz? Yes, that is likely, just from seeing his glowing defense of the lady, but, yes, boring.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Anon

    Yeah. Recently, Dershowitz has been useful. It’ll be a shame if did what he’s accused of and gets cancelled. And saying nice things–in fact, anything–about Mexwell certainly looks suspicious. If Dershowitz is innocent, he risks making everyone distrust him.

  18. @Bubba

    So why not pretend to be another one, assuming you can pull off the act?
     
    Elizabeth Holmes had that nailed, almost.

    Replies: @Not Raul

    It’s remarkable how little due diligence “smart” rich people do when they’re dealing with “charming” people from affluent backgrounds.

    • Agree: Bubba
  19. So what better cover for a grifter than claiming to be, at heart, a fellow who loves science most of all, but who got detoured off his natural career path by his knack for making vast amounts of money for his investors?

    The problem is, he didn’t make any money for his investors. He didn’t even trade any money on behalf of his investors.

    No one remembers trading with him at all. Investing billions on behalf of his clients, and he apparently bypassed every known financial institution in the industry.

    However:

    – Les Wexner was happy to give him a billion or two;

    – he teamed up with the daughter of a Mossad agent;

    – for no reason at all, Ehud Barak turns up on his doorstep in a light disguise;

    – he has cameras in every room of his mansion, entry into which granted one the privilege of a massage with a pretty young thing;

    – a handful of women have emerged to say they were sexually abused by Epstein and Maxwell, and forced by those two to submit to abuse by wealthy and powerful friends of Epstein.

    I could go on, but what’s the point? You can lead the horse to water …

    Go back to sleep Steve. The adults will continue the conversation elsewhere.

    • Agree: utu, JohnnyWalker123
    • Replies: @utu
    @Stebbing Heuer

    Ehud Barak said that he was introduced to Epstein by Shimon Peres.

    "Barak, who married Nili Priel in 2007 after he divorced his first wife, Nava Cohen, in 2003, told the Daily Beast in an interview published July 15 that he was introduced to Epstein by the late Israeli President Shimon Peres and has met him about 10 times, including at two of Epstein’s Manhattan residences and on the financier’s private Caribbean island. But, he told the news website, “I’ve never been there at a party” and he never met any women or girls there."

    "Epstein financed much of an investment of several million dollars formally made by Barak in the high-tech company Reporty Homeland Security, now called Carbyne, Haaretz reported. "

    https://www.jta.org/2019/07/23/israel/ehud-barak-wants-to-unseat-netanyahu-but-first-he-has-to-get-the-jeffrey-epstein-monkey-off-his-back

    , @Bugg
    @Stebbing Heuer

    Epstein goes from a quant guy with Bear Stearns to super rich.Or the facade of rich. Supposedly he ran a hedge fund and you have the Les Wexner thing and a Ponzi scam, but really there's a huge hole there that is unexplained. There are a lot of very talented Wall Street guys, but none of them have a career trajectory like that. And if they were so brilliant, they keep moving. He is not Steve Cohen. Unless somebody, like, say, Ehud Barak and the Mossad figured out Epstein was in a very good spot to get incriminating video on American politicians and businessmen, and therefore, to make them inclined to be well disposed to the state of Israel. And who better than a shameless outer borough Jew who liked banging young chicks. Nothing else makes any sense.

    Replies: @Stebbing Heuer

  20. I wouldn’t be surprised if Maxwell dies. There must be a reason she’s been in hiding rather than trying to cut a deal for her inside info. Two deaths would, of course, cement the impression of conspiratorial assassinations, but the Kennedy brothers’ murders didn’t make much more than a hiccup in history.

  21. “My wife and I were introduced to Ghislaine Maxwell by Sir Evelyn and Lady Lynne de Rothschild, and we subsequently met her on several occasions — generally in the presence of prominent people such as Bill and Hillary Clinton, Nobel Prize-winning scientists, presidents of universities, and prominent academic and business people. We never saw her do anything inappropriate. We knew her only as Jeffrey Epstein’s thirty-something girlfriend. … ” I’m confused is this the defenses opening statement or the prosecution’s brief ?

    • LOL: Jim Don Bob
  22. Epstein owned a sex slave named Virginia Giuffre.

    She alleges that she was trafficked to the following men:

    -Prince Andrew
    -Alan Dershowitz
    -New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson
    -Billionaire financier Glenn Dubin (whose wife is the former Miss Sweden Eva Andersson-Dubin)
    -Former Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell
    -Modeling mogul Jean-Luc Brunel
    -A prince
    -A foreign president
    – A “well-known” prime minister
    -The owner of a large hotel chain in France

    Virginia Giuffre with Prince Andrew.

    Alan Dershowitz thinks Virginia Giuffre is a prostitute.

    Alan Dershowitz kept his underwear on while he was massaged at Epstein’s house.

    TLDR Summary: Dershowitz admits he got one massage at Epstein’s house, but he kept his underwear on. So it’s all good.

    • Replies: @DextersLabRat
    @JohnnyWalker123

    I have no doubt everyone involved with this is evil and in a sane society would be getting publicly guillotine'd, but what exactly is a sex slave supposed to be in this scenario? Is someone holding a gun to this girl's head just outside of the camera frame? Or by "sex slave" was she just a prostitute who then got cold feet? Because from what I've read on her Wikipedia she was sent to Thailand to bring over another hooker, and then said "sorry I'm out, bye" and then went to live her life just fine for many years. That doesn't sound like a sex slave to me.

    Replies: @Pericles, @Alden

    , @Jim Don Bob
    @JohnnyWalker123

    3 things:
    1) Virginia Giuffre doesn't look unhappy in that picture.
    2) She is not that good looking. I mean, Jesus H. Christ, if you're gonna run an international teenage hooker ring, why wouldn't you get some cuties?
    3) Where are the other females who were trafficked? Even if they signed NDAs in 2008, there is money and fame in #MeToo by coming forward now.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @Nathan, @HA, @sayless, @Almost Missouri

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Trending ... #KeepYourUnderwearOn

    Replies: @Sam Malone

    , @anon
    @JohnnyWalker123

    How to trust Virginia Giuffre is telling the truth? Are prostitutes generally renowned for truthfulness?

    Is Stormy Daniels truthful? Is Karen McDougal?

    Replies: @Peripatetic Commenter, @Pericles

    , @Joe, Averaged
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Believe all women: is so 2018

    , @Dieter Kief
    @JohnnyWalker123


    TLDR Summary: Dershowitz admits he got one massage at Epstein’s house, but he kept his underwear on. So it’s all good.
     
    Yeah that. Plus: She didn't inhale, right?
  23. Well, because math and science literate people are precisely the people who should have seen through Epstein’s bullshit first. This is the guy who claimed, in 1981 when he founded his own hedge fund, that he only worked with clients who had an income of over 1 million a year. The problem is that nobody made that kind of money at the time. Even professional athletes and Hollywood actors weren’t earning that kind of money. Nolan Ryan seems to be the only million dollar a year athlete in 1981. For actors, only Larry Hagman’s epic 100,000 an episode contract for Dallas would have made him a reliable million dollar a year earner. And that’s about it. CEO and banking pay wasn’t so astronomical at the time. Epstein’ s lies should have been obvious from the very beginning. His later claims that he only worked with billionaire clients should have been laughed at. There are only 2,000 billionaires in the world. If you have a billion dollars, what on earth do you need a financial advisor for? You’ve already got a billion dollars, obviously you must be doing something right.

    There’s also little evidence that Epstein ever made any returns for his investors. And by investors, I mean Leslie Wexner. Epstein likely took Wexner for a few million and used the money to fund his tacky lifestyle.

    Hopefully they squeeze Ghislaine and she squeals like a stuck pig. Hopefully they get medieval on her ass. Hopefully there’s some explanation other than being a shitty person is the fastest way to the top in life.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Nathan

    There have been many interviews with investment and hedge fund managers who claim they never heard of Epstein’s fund. Of course they were in NYC offices glued to their computers while Jeffrey was flying between Florida, Europe and his Island.

    Replies: @Nathan

  24. @Steve Sailer
    @Joe, Averaged

    Didn't a Roman Emperor (Tiberius?) use the island of Capri for roughly the same thing?

    Replies: @Joe, Averaged, @donut

    Right!

  25. My personal theory on Epstein is that he has thousands of blackmail tapes that consist of powerful people having sex with their spouses in the missionary position while in blackface.

  26. The only way any of it makes any sense is if Epstein and Maxwell (and,especially, Wexner) were an intelligence/blackmail/influence-peddling operation.

  27. @Steve Sailer
    @Joe, Averaged

    Didn't a Roman Emperor (Tiberius?) use the island of Capri for roughly the same thing?

    Replies: @Joe, Averaged, @donut

    Yes , but you know that . If we can’t have a Vespasian and a Titus then we shall have a Caligula .

  28. What if … Jeffrey Epstein was a genial conman from the Outer Boroughs whose schtick was that he could talk science and math better than 99% of all the other conmen can?

    This is my working theory of Jeffrey Epstein. He was a thug and a pimp blessed with a high IQ, allowing him to target a better class of marks.

  29. My wife and I were introduced to Ghislaine Maxwell by Sir Evelyn and Lady Lynne de Rothschild, and we subsequently met her on several occasions — generally in the presence of prominent people such as Bill and Hillary Clinton, Nobel Prize-winning scientists, presidents of universities, and prominent academic and business people. We never saw her do anything inappropriate. We knew her only as Jeffrey Epstein’s thirty-something girlfriend. …

    …..So maybe Stanley Kubrick was on to something….

    • Agree: JohnnyWalker123
    • Replies: @syonredux
    @syonredux

    .....and then there's Jeffrey Epstein's bizarre island temple....


    https://amp.insider.com/images/5d26225a21a86139d86fa265-1536-768.jpg

    Replies: @Alden

    , @syonredux
    @syonredux

    .....and then there's Jeffrey Epstein's bizarre island temple....


    https://amp.insider.com/images/5d26225a21a86139d86fa265-1536-768.jpg

    , @JohnnyWalker123
    @syonredux

    Yes.

    In Kubrick’s film "Eyes Wide Shut," there’s a costume party in which Occult/Satanic rituals are performed. At the party, the Romanian Orthodox liturgy is played backwards (doing Christian prayers backwards is a common practice of Satanic worshippers). The film rituals were actually filmed at the real-life Rothschild “Mentmore Tower” mansion (the Rothschilds sold the mansion many years before the film was produced). The party costumes are very similar to those from the real-life 1972 Rothschild party.

    In Kubrick's film, the Rothschild family crest is even featured on the throne of the Satanic priest (who’s leading the rituals). See below.

    https://twitter.com/NFrechen/status/1150120072691769344

    There’s an important character in the film (who’s apart of the Occult/Satanic rituals) whose last name is “Windsor.” Interestingly, Epstein is good friends with British Prince Andrew and is quite close to the British royal family (the House of Windsor). A coincidence, I’m sure…..

    This Youtube video explores more of the similarities between Kubrick’s film and the 1972 Rothchild party.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoMlXey70XE

    Newsweek commented on the similarities between "Eyes Wide Shut" and the Epstein prostitution ring.

    https://www.newsweek.com/eyes-wide-shut-missing-footage-epstein-kubrick-death-1449108


    In 'Eyes Wide Shut' Stanley Kubrick Captured Horrors of Jeffrey Epstein Era

     

    There were pictures taken during a law enforcement raid on Epstein's mansion. In one of the pictures, you can see the floor pattern of Epstein's home. This floor pattern is exactly the same as the pattern from Ziegler's mansion. See below.

    https://imgur.com/DL1b6i9

    Who's Ziegler? In the film "Eyes Wide Shut," Ziegler is a wealthy Jewish socialite from NYC. While he appears respectable and normal, he's secretly running a prostitution ring that caters to the elite of local society. He hosts debauched orgies (with Occult rituals) in which prostitutes are abused. Basically the same as Epstein.

    Interestingly, Ziegler wears a devil's tail, which he keeps concealed inside his pants. During a scene with a prostitute in a bathroom, Ziegler's devil tail falls out of his pants.

    Here are some other scary pictures taken inside Epstein's mansion. Notice the red light. Notice the red pitchfork on a model of Epstein's plane. Red pitchfork.

    https://imgur.com/GijJ31M

    By the way, throughout "Eyes Wide Shut," the color red is constantly displayed. Especially during the Satanic/Occult sex rituals.

    During the ending of the film, the daughter of the main characters is kidnapped by Ziegler's sex trafficking ring, with strong hints that she'll be molested and forced to become a child prostitute. See below.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pp4WDG37iU

    Throughout the film, the Star of Ishtar is displayed. So are relics of ancient temples, especially inside people's homes and during the Satanic/Occult ritual scenes.

    https://i0.wp.com/moviesupclose.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/vlcsnap-2013-05-30-14h36m58s109.png

    Who is Ishtar? She's a Sumerian deity. There was a cult of sacred temple prostitution built around her.

    TLDR Summary:

    -Stanley Kubrick's film "Eyes Wide Shut" offers a glimpse into a world of elite prostitution, debauchery, blackmail, murder, and the Occult.
    -There are STRONG similarities between the film and the 1972 Occult Rothschild party.
    -The Rothschilds are good friend of Epstein, even introducing Maxwell to Alan Dershowitz.
    -"Eyes Wide Shut" has many bizarre similarities to the world of Jeffrey Epstein.

    Replies: @Bugg, @utu, @tyrone, @Ozymandias

  30. Anon[295] • Disclaimer says:

    Sex is a weakness most men have. I feel like a fool for never having considered sexual blackmail is a tool the powers that be would use to control elected representatives and high ranking government/business leaders. It had honestly never occured to me. I had thought it was just bribery. Cant believe how naive I was about the possibility of an Epstein. I knew the KGB used to have a unit of “swallows” to entangle some targets in sexual blackmail or get them to spill pillowtak secrets. Now I think there may be other Epsteinish operations in place.

  31. Off topic, but I was just reading a news article where, as is standard now, they’re capitalizing “Black” when speaking of African Americans (PBUT) and pointedly not capitalizing “white” when referring to people of predominantly European descent.

    And I realized that pretty soon this level of subtlety is going to become intolerable to our betters – after all, what if the peasant swine don’t realize we’re kicking dirt in their faces?? So they may have to begin drawing attention to the capitalized B in “Blacks” by underlining it, as well as making sure that people notice the ignominy to which whites are finally being so justly subjected by the lower case “w” mark of shame by underlining that letter too.

    I’m imagining the following sentence – “The Black family of five was laughing with abandon at the sight of their Schnauzer, Terry, fruitlessly attempting to retrieve the Frisby from the hedges when the accused, a white, began viscously stabbing them.”

    Later, they might feel they need to start coloring the Bs and ws with yellow highlighting, and maybe eventually even putting in little crudely painted arrows pointing exactly at those crucial letters so that everyone understands the profound act of racial justice being courageously undertaken by the publishers.

    Pure childishness, as Steve has pinpointed previously.

  32. utu says:
    @Stebbing Heuer

    So what better cover for a grifter than claiming to be, at heart, a fellow who loves science most of all, but who got detoured off his natural career path by his knack for making vast amounts of money for his investors?
     
    The problem is, he didn't make any money for his investors. He didn't even trade any money on behalf of his investors.

    No one remembers trading with him at all. Investing billions on behalf of his clients, and he apparently bypassed every known financial institution in the industry.

    However:

    - Les Wexner was happy to give him a billion or two;

    - he teamed up with the daughter of a Mossad agent;

    - for no reason at all, Ehud Barak turns up on his doorstep in a light disguise;

    - he has cameras in every room of his mansion, entry into which granted one the privilege of a massage with a pretty young thing;

    - a handful of women have emerged to say they were sexually abused by Epstein and Maxwell, and forced by those two to submit to abuse by wealthy and powerful friends of Epstein.

    I could go on, but what's the point? You can lead the horse to water ...

    Go back to sleep Steve. The adults will continue the conversation elsewhere.

    Replies: @utu, @Bugg

    Ehud Barak said that he was introduced to Epstein by Shimon Peres.

    “Barak, who married Nili Priel in 2007 after he divorced his first wife, Nava Cohen, in 2003, told the Daily Beast in an interview published July 15 that he was introduced to Epstein by the late Israeli President Shimon Peres and has met him about 10 times, including at two of Epstein’s Manhattan residences and on the financier’s private Caribbean island. But, he told the news website, “I’ve never been there at a party” and he never met any women or girls there.”

    “Epstein financed much of an investment of several million dollars formally made by Barak in the high-tech company Reporty Homeland Security, now called Carbyne, Haaretz reported. ”

    https://www.jta.org/2019/07/23/israel/ehud-barak-wants-to-unseat-netanyahu-but-first-he-has-to-get-the-jeffrey-epstein-monkey-off-his-back

  33. @syonredux

    My wife and I were introduced to Ghislaine Maxwell by Sir Evelyn and Lady Lynne de Rothschild, and we subsequently met her on several occasions — generally in the presence of prominent people such as Bill and Hillary Clinton, Nobel Prize-winning scientists, presidents of universities, and prominent academic and business people. We never saw her do anything inappropriate. We knew her only as Jeffrey Epstein’s thirty-something girlfriend. …
     
    .....So maybe Stanley Kubrick was on to something....


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDjjXw-ezDU

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZVzxb7HOo4

    Replies: @syonredux, @syonredux, @JohnnyWalker123

    …..and then there’s Jeffrey Epstein’s bizarre island temple….

    • Replies: @Alden
    @syonredux

    The blue stripes white background signify the flag of Israel and prayer shawls. The design means all the lands between the Nile and other rivers in the Middle East.

  34. @syonredux

    My wife and I were introduced to Ghislaine Maxwell by Sir Evelyn and Lady Lynne de Rothschild, and we subsequently met her on several occasions — generally in the presence of prominent people such as Bill and Hillary Clinton, Nobel Prize-winning scientists, presidents of universities, and prominent academic and business people. We never saw her do anything inappropriate. We knew her only as Jeffrey Epstein’s thirty-something girlfriend. …
     
    .....So maybe Stanley Kubrick was on to something....


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDjjXw-ezDU

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZVzxb7HOo4

    Replies: @syonredux, @syonredux, @JohnnyWalker123

    …..and then there’s Jeffrey Epstein’s bizarre island temple….

  35. @JohnnyWalker123
    Epstein owned a sex slave named Virginia Giuffre.

    She alleges that she was trafficked to the following men:

    -Prince Andrew
    -Alan Dershowitz
    -New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson
    -Billionaire financier Glenn Dubin (whose wife is the former Miss Sweden Eva Andersson-Dubin)
    -Former Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell
    -Modeling mogul Jean-Luc Brunel
    -A prince
    -A foreign president
    – A “well-known” prime minister
    -The owner of a large hotel chain in France

    Virginia Giuffre with Prince Andrew.

    https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2019/12/virginia-roberts-interview-08-1.jpg?quality=80&strip=all

    Alan Dershowitz thinks Virginia Giuffre is a prostitute.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GlK8dr6MP0

    Alan Dershowitz kept his underwear on while he was massaged at Epstein's house.

    https://twitter.com/Sharon46601576/status/1279201013400993793

    TLDR Summary: Dershowitz admits he got one massage at Epstein's house, but he kept his underwear on. So it's all good.

    Replies: @DextersLabRat, @Jim Don Bob, @Achmed E. Newman, @anon, @Joe, Averaged, @Dieter Kief

    I have no doubt everyone involved with this is evil and in a sane society would be getting publicly guillotine’d, but what exactly is a sex slave supposed to be in this scenario? Is someone holding a gun to this girl’s head just outside of the camera frame? Or by “sex slave” was she just a prostitute who then got cold feet? Because from what I’ve read on her Wikipedia she was sent to Thailand to bring over another hooker, and then said “sorry I’m out, bye” and then went to live her life just fine for many years. That doesn’t sound like a sex slave to me.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    @DextersLabRat

    Public service announcement: You're not allowed to bang the jailbait, not even if they are filthy shiksas. Not if you pay money for it either, or if it's at a private party arranged by your smooth jewish friend.

    Epstein is in one sense just part of a long tradition of middle eastern pimps luring dumb white girls into prostitution, but of course keeping the proceeds for himself. He would have been right at home with the pakis at the taxi stand in Rotherham or many other British towns. "But your honor, they were just working class sluts!"

    Replies: @Gordo

    , @Alden
    @DextersLabRat

    The sex slavery as she called it, was before she escaped by going to Thailand and then Australia. She decided she had to leave when Epstein and Maxwell told her the next job would be to have a baby and give it to Maxwell and Epstein for some nefarious purpose.

    Neither Maxwell nor Epstein have known children. Interesting.

  36. The video below consists of an interview of a former Firefighter/EMT and a former Secret Service Agent (who also worked in border security). These men are discussing recent drone footage from the Epstein island, taken after the 2019 Epstein arrest.

    Here’s a summary of their discussion.

    1. There’s an ambulance on the Epstein island.

    2. It’s hard to get an ambulance onto an island, as it’s necessary to get medical certifications first. Specifically, you need a “Certificate of Need.” There is no official record of a registered ambulance vehicle on Epstein’s island, which is strange…..

    3. The windows of the ambulance have been blacked out, presumably for reasons of anonymity. It’s speculated that it could’ve been used to transport children or perhaps VIPs. The day after the ambulance was spotted on the island by a drone and mentioned on Youtube, it disappeared.

    4. There’s physical evidence of a tunnel system and even elevators below the surface. There are doors in the side of a hill, and a cave. There is underground ventilation. There are buildings built into the hillside. It’s speculated that the tropical trees are being used as cover.

    5. There is a power/utility room. There is a sewage treatment plant too. That suggests there were many people present on the island and extensive living quarters.

    6. There are shipping containers. It is speculated that dead bodies may have been loaded into the ambulance and then deposited into shipping containers. It’s speculated that the containers were weighed down with heavy cement, before being sunk in the water.

    7. There is a grass area that was likely utilized as a helipad.

    8. There were numerous NYPD and FBI visible on the island. It is speculated that there may be bodies on the island.

    Courtney Love’s name was found in Epstein’s “Black Book.” Courtney Love’s father claimed that his daughter procured girls for Epstein. He also claims that Epstein disposed of bodies of “worn out” girls, burying them in the desert or dumping them in the water.

    See his Facebook comment below.

    View post on imgur.com

    Why am I posting his comment? Mostly because his comment supports the claim that bodies may been buried below the ground or disposed in the water.

    TLDR Summary:

    -There was an ambulance with tinted windows on the Epstein island.
    -There’s evidence of a tunnel system and elevators below the surface of the island. There are doors in the side of a hill. There are buildings built into the hillside.
    -There is underground ventilation. There is a power/utility room. There is a sewage treatment plant too.
    -There are shipping containers.
    -There’s a helipad landing.
    -NYPD and FBI were spotted on the island.
    -Courtney Love’s father claims his daughter procured girls for Epstein. Epstein disposed of bodies of “worn out” girls, burying them in the desert or dumping them in the water.

    • Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @JohnnyWalker123

    For reasons that take far too long to explain, I once had an answering-machine tape message containing a call from Courtney Love to my place, mumbling and blathering about who knows what. She wasn't talking to me, I've never met her. I also used to have a hilariously bizarre phone message from Wallace Shawn, but that was from a different life.

    Replies: @Sam Malone

  37. @JohnnyWalker123
    Epstein owned a sex slave named Virginia Giuffre.

    She alleges that she was trafficked to the following men:

    -Prince Andrew
    -Alan Dershowitz
    -New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson
    -Billionaire financier Glenn Dubin (whose wife is the former Miss Sweden Eva Andersson-Dubin)
    -Former Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell
    -Modeling mogul Jean-Luc Brunel
    -A prince
    -A foreign president
    – A “well-known” prime minister
    -The owner of a large hotel chain in France

    Virginia Giuffre with Prince Andrew.

    https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2019/12/virginia-roberts-interview-08-1.jpg?quality=80&strip=all

    Alan Dershowitz thinks Virginia Giuffre is a prostitute.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GlK8dr6MP0

    Alan Dershowitz kept his underwear on while he was massaged at Epstein's house.

    https://twitter.com/Sharon46601576/status/1279201013400993793

    TLDR Summary: Dershowitz admits he got one massage at Epstein's house, but he kept his underwear on. So it's all good.

    Replies: @DextersLabRat, @Jim Don Bob, @Achmed E. Newman, @anon, @Joe, Averaged, @Dieter Kief

    3 things:
    1) Virginia Giuffre doesn’t look unhappy in that picture.
    2) She is not that good looking. I mean, Jesus H. Christ, if you’re gonna run an international teenage hooker ring, why wouldn’t you get some cuties?
    3) Where are the other females who were trafficked? Even if they signed NDAs in 2008, there is money and fame in #MeToo by coming forward now.

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    @Jim Don Bob

    2) She is not that good looking.

    There has never been a picture of an attractive woman on iSteve about which someone did not feel it necessary to comment, "She's not that good looking."

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Alden

    , @Nathan
    @Jim Don Bob

    Get a load of Mr. 2/10-would-not-bang here. Yeesh. Where would you go to get some sex ring victims that are up to your standards?

    , @HA
    @Jim Don Bob

    "Where are the other females who were trafficked? Even if they signed NDAs in 2008, there is money and fame in #MeToo by coming forward now."

    How much money are we talking about (and is it worth the added risk of "suicide")?

    And you mean fame as in "being known forever for the year or two of my life where I was a catatonic junkie passed around from one rich man to another, though, given the chemicals, and the fact that it was never my proudest moment, and is actually one I'd like to forget, I'm not really clear on the details"? You're really wondering why there isn't a long line queueing up for a slice of that?

    There are certainly others who have come forward (see, e.g., the numerous on-air interviews in the Netflix special), but even some of those admitted that they helped procure other girls for Epstein during their time under his influence. Again, not the kind of fame one typically queues up for and I doubt they received a big wheelbarrow of cash for their interviews.

    , @sayless
    @Jim Don Bob

    Not everyone who has a story like that wants to come forward with it.

    , @Almost Missouri
    @Jim Don Bob


    Where are the other females who were trafficked?
     
    Here's one:

    https://nbc25news.com/news/local/alleged-jeffrey-epstein-victim-from-northern-michigan-steps-forward-11-18-2019

    Other than the doughty Daily Mail and New York Post, she only got local coverage.

    She specifically says she was intimidated from earlier disclosure by Epstein's powerful connections. Strangely the whole "truth to power" crowd was uninterested in this story of power ruining innocence, as they have been in all these types of stories.

    Here's a contemporary photo of her:
    https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2019/11/jane-doe.jpg

    Here's her bracelet at the press conference:
    https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2019/11/191118-epstein-jane-doe-news-conference1.jpg

  38. Anonymous[333] • Disclaimer says:

    OT, but WOW — YouTube is silently autodeleting my comments if they pass some threshold of race content. I tried to post this comment on the recent Karen video

    This is a perfect example of black privilege in action. No white guy would ever be able to get away with this level of harassment over something as trivial as being flipped off, but blacks feel entitled to levels of respect and deference that white people can never hope for. Because slavery…

    This is a perfectly reasonable comment; no crude language or anything. It appeared to display normally when I posted it, but when I refreshed a couple of seconds later the comment had disappeared! I opened the video in a different browser (which wasn’t logged into YouTube) and couldn’t see it there either. I’ve run some experiments, and it appears that the last two sentences (No white guy … Because slavery…) are what do it. It’s repeatable — I tried it three times. Each individual sentence alone passes muster, but the last two together don’t.

    Could somebody else give this a try and see what happens? Has anyone else seen anything like this?

    • Replies: @Russ
    @Anonymous


    Could somebody else give this a try and see what happens? Has anyone else seen anything like this?
     
    Any time I try to quote Lyndon Johnson on how passing the Voting/Civil Rights Act would get "them eggplant" voting Democrat for the next 200 years, the comment never gets published -- and that's on this very iSteve site. So your experience with YouTube does not surprise me at all. In my case, I've yet to find an acceptable proxy to the six-letter quasi-pejorative beginning with the 14th letter. Perhaps this comment won't air either. Pity; after all, it was LBJ who said it.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  39. @JohnnyWalker123
    Epstein owned a sex slave named Virginia Giuffre.

    She alleges that she was trafficked to the following men:

    -Prince Andrew
    -Alan Dershowitz
    -New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson
    -Billionaire financier Glenn Dubin (whose wife is the former Miss Sweden Eva Andersson-Dubin)
    -Former Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell
    -Modeling mogul Jean-Luc Brunel
    -A prince
    -A foreign president
    – A “well-known” prime minister
    -The owner of a large hotel chain in France

    Virginia Giuffre with Prince Andrew.

    https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2019/12/virginia-roberts-interview-08-1.jpg?quality=80&strip=all

    Alan Dershowitz thinks Virginia Giuffre is a prostitute.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GlK8dr6MP0

    Alan Dershowitz kept his underwear on while he was massaged at Epstein's house.

    https://twitter.com/Sharon46601576/status/1279201013400993793

    TLDR Summary: Dershowitz admits he got one massage at Epstein's house, but he kept his underwear on. So it's all good.

    Replies: @DextersLabRat, @Jim Don Bob, @Achmed E. Newman, @anon, @Joe, Averaged, @Dieter Kief

    Trending … #KeepYourUnderwearOn

    • LOL: Jim Christian
    • Replies: @Sam Malone
    @Achmed E. Newman

    It's the new "I never inhaled."

  40. Let’s liven it up a bit!

    • Replies: @anon
    @Peripatetic Commenter

    lol

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY7NE_jSk5w

  41. Apparently Alan has a more flexible idea of what is “appropriate” than those adults who think having sex with pubescent teenage girls may be a tempting idea but is just not done.

    There is if I recall a certain demographic in which it it quite common. Maybe there is more than one.

  42. @JohnnyWalker123
    Epstein owned a sex slave named Virginia Giuffre.

    She alleges that she was trafficked to the following men:

    -Prince Andrew
    -Alan Dershowitz
    -New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson
    -Billionaire financier Glenn Dubin (whose wife is the former Miss Sweden Eva Andersson-Dubin)
    -Former Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell
    -Modeling mogul Jean-Luc Brunel
    -A prince
    -A foreign president
    – A “well-known” prime minister
    -The owner of a large hotel chain in France

    Virginia Giuffre with Prince Andrew.

    https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2019/12/virginia-roberts-interview-08-1.jpg?quality=80&strip=all

    Alan Dershowitz thinks Virginia Giuffre is a prostitute.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GlK8dr6MP0

    Alan Dershowitz kept his underwear on while he was massaged at Epstein's house.

    https://twitter.com/Sharon46601576/status/1279201013400993793

    TLDR Summary: Dershowitz admits he got one massage at Epstein's house, but he kept his underwear on. So it's all good.

    Replies: @DextersLabRat, @Jim Don Bob, @Achmed E. Newman, @anon, @Joe, Averaged, @Dieter Kief

    How to trust Virginia Giuffre is telling the truth? Are prostitutes generally renowned for truthfulness?

    Is Stormy Daniels truthful? Is Karen McDougal?

    • Replies: @Peripatetic Commenter
    @anon

    Women must be believed!

    , @Pericles
    @anon

    Well, why not try it in court? There is that pesky photo of course, and hanging around the convicted child molester Epstein, but who knows what a good lawyer (not to mention a good judge) can let you get away with.

  43. We live in a society that holds up The Scientist as an icon of moral integrity. So what better cover for a grifter…

    Nobelist Sune Bergström and his wife had a son, Rurik, in 1955. The same year, he had another son with a mistress. His name is Svante Pääbo.

  44. The original basis of all lynching is “the system cannot be trusted to execute its most basic duty.”
    Are you for or against lynching?

  45. @JohnnyWalker123
    Epstein owned a sex slave named Virginia Giuffre.

    She alleges that she was trafficked to the following men:

    -Prince Andrew
    -Alan Dershowitz
    -New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson
    -Billionaire financier Glenn Dubin (whose wife is the former Miss Sweden Eva Andersson-Dubin)
    -Former Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell
    -Modeling mogul Jean-Luc Brunel
    -A prince
    -A foreign president
    – A “well-known” prime minister
    -The owner of a large hotel chain in France

    Virginia Giuffre with Prince Andrew.

    https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2019/12/virginia-roberts-interview-08-1.jpg?quality=80&strip=all

    Alan Dershowitz thinks Virginia Giuffre is a prostitute.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GlK8dr6MP0

    Alan Dershowitz kept his underwear on while he was massaged at Epstein's house.

    https://twitter.com/Sharon46601576/status/1279201013400993793

    TLDR Summary: Dershowitz admits he got one massage at Epstein's house, but he kept his underwear on. So it's all good.

    Replies: @DextersLabRat, @Jim Don Bob, @Achmed E. Newman, @anon, @Joe, Averaged, @Dieter Kief

    Believe all women: is so 2018

  46. Russ says:

    There actually are a few genius investors who are like that, such as Jim Simons, founder of Renaissance Technologies Hedge Fund.

    Simons: Fascinating character; truly a genius. Yet, now in his 80s, he is now putting part of his vast fortune into proving that the Big Bang was not the beginning of the universe – rather, that the universe always was. One wistfully recalls that two of the greatest logicians ever, Georg Cantor and Kurt Godel, died insane.

  47. Bugg says:
    @Stebbing Heuer

    So what better cover for a grifter than claiming to be, at heart, a fellow who loves science most of all, but who got detoured off his natural career path by his knack for making vast amounts of money for his investors?
     
    The problem is, he didn't make any money for his investors. He didn't even trade any money on behalf of his investors.

    No one remembers trading with him at all. Investing billions on behalf of his clients, and he apparently bypassed every known financial institution in the industry.

    However:

    - Les Wexner was happy to give him a billion or two;

    - he teamed up with the daughter of a Mossad agent;

    - for no reason at all, Ehud Barak turns up on his doorstep in a light disguise;

    - he has cameras in every room of his mansion, entry into which granted one the privilege of a massage with a pretty young thing;

    - a handful of women have emerged to say they were sexually abused by Epstein and Maxwell, and forced by those two to submit to abuse by wealthy and powerful friends of Epstein.

    I could go on, but what's the point? You can lead the horse to water ...

    Go back to sleep Steve. The adults will continue the conversation elsewhere.

    Replies: @utu, @Bugg

    Epstein goes from a quant guy with Bear Stearns to super rich.Or the facade of rich. Supposedly he ran a hedge fund and you have the Les Wexner thing and a Ponzi scam, but really there’s a huge hole there that is unexplained. There are a lot of very talented Wall Street guys, but none of them have a career trajectory like that. And if they were so brilliant, they keep moving. He is not Steve Cohen. Unless somebody, like, say, Ehud Barak and the Mossad figured out Epstein was in a very good spot to get incriminating video on American politicians and businessmen, and therefore, to make them inclined to be well disposed to the state of Israel. And who better than a shameless outer borough Jew who liked banging young chicks. Nothing else makes any sense.

    • Replies: @Stebbing Heuer
    @Bugg

    'Sactly.

  48. @Peripatetic Commenter
    Let's liven it up a bit!

    https://gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/056/706/457/original/f5cea047246e5810.jpeg?1593325976

    Replies: @anon

    lol

  49. Epstein is a Mossad agent who blackmails prominent goys.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Ari Silver

    It's a little chagrining the lengths this ostensibly Occam's Razor-y forum will go to avoid your nine-word conclusion.

    , @Kratoklastes
    @Ari Silver

    Was.

  50. @anon
    @JohnnyWalker123

    How to trust Virginia Giuffre is telling the truth? Are prostitutes generally renowned for truthfulness?

    Is Stormy Daniels truthful? Is Karen McDougal?

    Replies: @Peripatetic Commenter, @Pericles

    Women must be believed!

  51. How I see myself :

    The reality :

    The last time I went to the beach the do gooders showed up and tried to push me back into the water . I feebly resisted using my arms and legs to get back on to solid ground . Then the I-Team news and some f**king Maine Biologist showed up to explain that the poor baby whale had some kind of virus “see how weakly it’s flapping it’s flippers ?” Meanwhile at home the little White idiots having breakfast before going off to school to learn what a great man Martin Looter Coon was asked their moron coal burning slag of a mother : “is the baby whale going to die mommy ?” “Yes , that’s what the priest , err scientist says darling . It’s all Whittey’s fault. Now here is your lunch money darlings , don’t forget to be humble and apologize when your new black overlords come to take it .” Mean while I flapped my puny flippers in a vain attempt to drown in the surf .

  52. OT: As part of the ongoing project of removing all the confederate war memorials in the city of Richmond (which was, lest one forget, the capital of the Confederacy), city workers today removed the statue of Confederate naval officer (formerly American naval officer) Matthew Fontaine Maury.

    Maury was a reluctant Confederate, having opposed succession. More importantly, Maury wasn’t just a naval officer, he was a scientist, and one of the founding fathers of meteorology and oceanography.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Fontaine_Maury

    Congratulations, cultural vandals. You’ve cancelled a better man than you’ll ever be.

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
    @Mr. Anon

    As has been the case with all of them.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

  53. @JohnnyWalker123
    The video below consists of an interview of a former Firefighter/EMT and a former Secret Service Agent (who also worked in border security). These men are discussing recent drone footage from the Epstein island, taken after the 2019 Epstein arrest.

    https://twitter.com/csthetruth/status/1162876820049416194

    Here's a summary of their discussion.

    1. There's an ambulance on the Epstein island. https://i.imgur.com/yitTwLT.jpg

    2. It's hard to get an ambulance onto an island, as it's necessary to get medical certifications first. Specifically, you need a "Certificate of Need." There is no official record of a registered ambulance vehicle on Epstein's island, which is strange.....

    3. The windows of the ambulance have been blacked out, presumably for reasons of anonymity. It's speculated that it could've been used to transport children or perhaps VIPs. The day after the ambulance was spotted on the island by a drone and mentioned on Youtube, it disappeared.

    4. There's physical evidence of a tunnel system and even elevators below the surface. There are doors in the side of a hill, and a cave. There is underground ventilation. There are buildings built into the hillside. It's speculated that the tropical trees are being used as cover.

    5. There is a power/utility room. There is a sewage treatment plant too. That suggests there were many people present on the island and extensive living quarters.

    6. There are shipping containers. It is speculated that dead bodies may have been loaded into the ambulance and then deposited into shipping containers. It's speculated that the containers were weighed down with heavy cement, before being sunk in the water.

    7. There is a grass area that was likely utilized as a helipad.

    8. There were numerous NYPD and FBI visible on the island. It is speculated that there may be bodies on the island.

    Courtney Love’s name was found in Epstein’s “Black Book.” Courtney Love’s father claimed that his daughter procured girls for Epstein. He also claims that Epstein disposed of bodies of “worn out” girls, burying them in the desert or dumping them in the water.

    See his Facebook comment below.

    https://imgur.com/fxEufHG

    Why am I posting his comment? Mostly because his comment supports the claim that bodies may been buried below the ground or disposed in the water.

    TLDR Summary:

    -There was an ambulance with tinted windows on the Epstein island.
    -There's evidence of a tunnel system and elevators below the surface of the island. There are doors in the side of a hill. There are buildings built into the hillside.
    -There is underground ventilation. There is a power/utility room. There is a sewage treatment plant too.
    -There are shipping containers.
    -There's a helipad landing.
    -NYPD and FBI were spotted on the island.
    -Courtney Love's father claims his daughter procured girls for Epstein. Epstein disposed of bodies of “worn out” girls, burying them in the desert or dumping them in the water.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease

    For reasons that take far too long to explain, I once had an answering-machine tape message containing a call from Courtney Love to my place, mumbling and blathering about who knows what. She wasn’t talking to me, I’ve never met her. I also used to have a hilariously bizarre phone message from Wallace Shawn, but that was from a different life.

    • Replies: @Sam Malone
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    I don't think an explanation could be too long for us to make sense of how a blitzed out Courtney Love once accidentally called your answering machine. I mean that's intriguing - what year was it roughly, how were you sure it was her, who did she think she was calling, what sort of mood was she in even if you couldn't tell what she was talking about, and why didn't you keep the tape? I think I would even if a D-list skeezebag celebrity I didn't care about called my home one night.

    Replies: @Hemid

  54. @Aeoli Pera
    While I appreciate the usefulness of preferring more boring theories whenever possible, this is not a good theory.

    Replies: @Kronos

    I’m surprised no one has really dug into Epstein’s fascination with eugenics. There’s enough material surrounding Epstein to at least play around with a “The Boys from Brazil” kind of secret project. (But one that doesn’t involve cloning Hitler.)

    Surely, Bill Clinton left enough semen stains around Little St. James to create a generation of masterclass political strategists.

  55. Ironically, she started out at the top. Her father was Robert Maxwell, the mega-rich Anglo-Israeli businessman, con man, and possible spy.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @turtlesallthewaydown

    Ghislaine's dad was pretty much a real life James Bond Villain. Epstein, the son of a Parks and Rec Department groundskeeper, was a step down.

    Replies: @utu

  56. Anon[877] • Disclaimer says:

    @ “.. to be, at heart, a fellow who loves science most of all, but who got detoured off his natural career path by his knack for making vast amounts of money for his investors? “

    Like Eric Weinstein, you mean?

    Though this idea was only a filler, my take is that talking math and IQ is a way of intimidating an audience. They’ll turn it off when someone higher in the pecking order is holding court.

    • Replies: @Curious George
    @Anon

    Eric Weinstein is himself a frustrated would-be physicist. His inability to make a career in math/physics drives his critique of contemporary society.

    On a recent podcast/interview with Rebel Wisdom (first half of 2020, I think), Weinstein discusses Epstein, whom he met once or twice. He says Epstein was not like any other hedge fund/finance guy he had ever met. He exuded no special intelligence or drive, let alone charm, and that raised Weinstein's suspicions. So Weinstein's testimony contradicts Steve's theory proposed above.

    Replies: @Sean

  57. @Jim Don Bob
    @JohnnyWalker123

    3 things:
    1) Virginia Giuffre doesn't look unhappy in that picture.
    2) She is not that good looking. I mean, Jesus H. Christ, if you're gonna run an international teenage hooker ring, why wouldn't you get some cuties?
    3) Where are the other females who were trafficked? Even if they signed NDAs in 2008, there is money and fame in #MeToo by coming forward now.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @Nathan, @HA, @sayless, @Almost Missouri

    2) She is not that good looking.

    There has never been a picture of an attractive woman on iSteve about which someone did not feel it necessary to comment, “She’s not that good looking.”

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Harry Baldwin

    The young Monica Belluci would not up to some individuals' standards.

    Replies: @Sean

    , @Alden
    @Harry Baldwin

    The MEN OF UNZ have incredibly high standards of beauty.

    Virginia is , was a very pretty woman and girl. She was much prettier 50 pounds less in that picture than she is now.

    That picture with Andrew is the epitome of standard N European beauty. Big eyes, good features, great smile, slim , natural blondey light brown hair.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Anonymous

  58. @turtlesallthewaydown
    Ironically, she started out at the top. Her father was Robert Maxwell, the mega-rich Anglo-Israeli businessman, con man, and possible spy.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Ghislaine’s dad was pretty much a real life James Bond Villain. Epstein, the son of a Parks and Rec Department groundskeeper, was a step down.

    • Replies: @utu
    @Steve Sailer

    From an Oxford scientist who fled to Argentina, a 'failed' actress branded 'ugly' by her father, to Britain's biggest ever bankrupt and the 'fireball' twins who made the Sunday Times Rich List... What became of Robert Maxwell's nine children?
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8486817/What-Robert-Maxwells-nine-children.html

    Replies: @Pericles

  59. “…we subsequently met her on several occasions — generally in the presence of prominent people such as Bill and Hillary Clinton, Nobel Prize-winning scientists, presidents of universities, and prominent academic and business people…”

    Translation: “All the cool kids were hanging out with Epstein and Maxwell!”

  60. @Harry Baldwin
    @Jim Don Bob

    2) She is not that good looking.

    There has never been a picture of an attractive woman on iSteve about which someone did not feel it necessary to comment, "She's not that good looking."

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Alden

    The young Monica Belluci would not up to some individuals’ standards.

    • Replies: @Sean
    @Steve Sailer

    I think you will find that well balanced women who listen to her story are the ones who remark her attractiveness was clearly never at the level her narrative implicitly requires. Giuffre was forced to concede she was 17 years old when she met Maxwell and began working for Epstein, not 15 as she originally claimed. Not getting a pass on her looks because she was a child appealing to deviants then.

    Her early account in sealed court documents of sex with numerous international politicians including a former president and two ex prime ministers that she tried to keep secret (one of those she named Mr. Dershowitz revealed last month to have been Ehud Barak) makes her looks an issue. If she was near beautiful her story might be easier to believe. Sadly, her credibility is zero, which is why none of the prosecutions of Epstein (like so many who plea bargained state charges he found himself a sitting duck for subsequent cast iron Federal indictments carrying a much longer sentence) dared use her as a witness.

    She would have tainted the entire case because a judge would be compelled to warn the jury of everything she said being unreliable. Believe me women on a jury would look at her and dismiss her as a fantasist. Maxwell is praying Giuffre will called by the prosecution, but they are not that stupid. The FBI work slow but sure, no one beats one of their cases. Maxwell will end up pleading guilty and do about five years in Club Fed.

    Replies: @Alden, @fitzhamilton

  61. @syonredux

    My wife and I were introduced to Ghislaine Maxwell by Sir Evelyn and Lady Lynne de Rothschild, and we subsequently met her on several occasions — generally in the presence of prominent people such as Bill and Hillary Clinton, Nobel Prize-winning scientists, presidents of universities, and prominent academic and business people. We never saw her do anything inappropriate. We knew her only as Jeffrey Epstein’s thirty-something girlfriend. …
     
    .....So maybe Stanley Kubrick was on to something....


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDjjXw-ezDU

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZVzxb7HOo4

    Replies: @syonredux, @syonredux, @JohnnyWalker123

    Yes.

    In Kubrick’s film “Eyes Wide Shut,” there’s a costume party in which Occult/Satanic rituals are performed. At the party, the Romanian Orthodox liturgy is played backwards (doing Christian prayers backwards is a common practice of Satanic worshippers). The film rituals were actually filmed at the real-life Rothschild “Mentmore Tower” mansion (the Rothschilds sold the mansion many years before the film was produced). The party costumes are very similar to those from the real-life 1972 Rothschild party.

    In Kubrick’s film, the Rothschild family crest is even featured on the throne of the Satanic priest (who’s leading the rituals). See below.

    https://twitter.com/NFrechen/status/1150120072691769344

    There’s an important character in the film (who’s apart of the Occult/Satanic rituals) whose last name is “Windsor.” Interestingly, Epstein is good friends with British Prince Andrew and is quite close to the British royal family (the House of Windsor). A coincidence, I’m sure…..

    This Youtube video explores more of the similarities between Kubrick’s film and the 1972 Rothchild party.

    Newsweek commented on the similarities between “Eyes Wide Shut” and the Epstein prostitution ring.

    https://www.newsweek.com/eyes-wide-shut-missing-footage-epstein-kubrick-death-1449108

    In ‘Eyes Wide Shut’ Stanley Kubrick Captured Horrors of Jeffrey Epstein Era

    There were pictures taken during a law enforcement raid on Epstein’s mansion. In one of the pictures, you can see the floor pattern of Epstein’s home. This floor pattern is exactly the same as the pattern from Ziegler’s mansion. See below.

    View post on imgur.com

    Who’s Ziegler? In the film “Eyes Wide Shut,” Ziegler is a wealthy Jewish socialite from NYC. While he appears respectable and normal, he’s secretly running a prostitution ring that caters to the elite of local society. He hosts debauched orgies (with Occult rituals) in which prostitutes are abused. Basically the same as Epstein.

    Interestingly, Ziegler wears a devil’s tail, which he keeps concealed inside his pants. During a scene with a prostitute in a bathroom, Ziegler’s devil tail falls out of his pants.

    Here are some other scary pictures taken inside Epstein’s mansion. Notice the red light. Notice the red pitchfork on a model of Epstein’s plane. Red pitchfork.

    View post on imgur.com

    By the way, throughout “Eyes Wide Shut,” the color red is constantly displayed. Especially during the Satanic/Occult sex rituals.

    During the ending of the film, the daughter of the main characters is kidnapped by Ziegler’s sex trafficking ring, with strong hints that she’ll be molested and forced to become a child prostitute. See below.

    Throughout the film, the Star of Ishtar is displayed. So are relics of ancient temples, especially inside people’s homes and during the Satanic/Occult ritual scenes.

    Who is Ishtar? She’s a Sumerian deity. There was a cult of sacred temple prostitution built around her.

    TLDR Summary:

    -Stanley Kubrick’s film “Eyes Wide Shut” offers a glimpse into a world of elite prostitution, debauchery, blackmail, murder, and the Occult.
    -There are STRONG similarities between the film and the 1972 Occult Rothschild party.
    -The Rothschilds are good friend of Epstein, even introducing Maxwell to Alan Dershowitz.
    -“Eyes Wide Shut” has many bizarre similarities to the world of Jeffrey Epstein.

    • Replies: @Bugg
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Ziegler was played by Kubrick's fellow director Sidney Pollack. In his last role, in "The Sopranos" Pollack played a oncologist incarcerated for killing his wife who helps fellow inmate crime boss Johnny Sack . At the time Pollack was himself dying of cancer. Pollack played Ziegler as the most amoral man you could imagine. Kubrick whether you believe all "The Shining" myths, was filling his movies with subliminal messages. This was 2 big time Hollywood guys telling us all their chosen business was a sewer.

    Replies: @Sam Malone, @JohnnyWalker123

    , @utu
    @JohnnyWalker123

    “Eyes Wide Shut" is based on Arthur Schnitzler's 1926 novella Traumnovelle (Dream Story).


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_Story
    "The next day, Fridolin learns that Nachtigall has been taken away by two mysterious men. He then goes to the costume shop to return his costume and discovers that the shop-owner is prostituting his teenage daughter to various men. He finds his way back to where the orgy had taken place the previous night; before he can enter, he is handed a note addressed to him by name that warns him not to pursue the matter. Later, he visits Marianne, but she no longer expresses any interest in him. Fridolin searches for Mizzi, the prostitute, but is unable to find her. He reads that a young woman has been poisoned. Suspecting that she is the woman who sacrificed herself for him, he views the woman's corpse in the morgue but cannot identify it."
     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Schnitzler

    "Schnitzler was branded as a pornographer after the release of his play Reigen, in which 10 pairs of characters are shown before and after the sexual act, leading and ending with a prostitute. The furor after this play was couched in the strongest anti-semitic terms"

    "Schnitzler's works were called "Jewish filth" by Adolf Hitler and were banned by the Nazis in Austria and Germany."
     

    Replies: @syonredux, @JohnnyWalker123

    , @tyrone
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Hey, didn't Kubrick die right after he finished that movie……of course there was nothing suspicious about that ……..just a little spicious. Question: are we doing a dead pool on Ghislaine?

    , @Ozymandias
    @JohnnyWalker123


    In one of the pictures, you can see the floor pattern of Epstein’s home. This floor pattern is exactly the same as the pattern from Ziegler’s mansion
     
    The black and White checkerboard pattern is in tens of millions of homes. It's in my bathroom right now. Offering this as proof of satanic association is a big hit to the credibility of your theory.
  62. @Jim Don Bob
    @JohnnyWalker123

    3 things:
    1) Virginia Giuffre doesn't look unhappy in that picture.
    2) She is not that good looking. I mean, Jesus H. Christ, if you're gonna run an international teenage hooker ring, why wouldn't you get some cuties?
    3) Where are the other females who were trafficked? Even if they signed NDAs in 2008, there is money and fame in #MeToo by coming forward now.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @Nathan, @HA, @sayless, @Almost Missouri

    Get a load of Mr. 2/10-would-not-bang here. Yeesh. Where would you go to get some sex ring victims that are up to your standards?

  63. So why did Wexner give him that NYC mansion then?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Altai

    Love?

    Leslie Wexner, like Sir Roderick Spode, the Fascist leader in Bertie and Jeeves novels, is a ladies' lingerie genius. Epstein was an extremely high testosterone guy with thick dark hair on the back of hands.

    Replies: @Altai, @Not Only Wrathful

  64. @Ian Smith
    If you’re trying to calm accusations and conspiracy theorizing, name dropping a Rothschild is a bad way to go about it. Yeesh, who would have thought that Alan Dershowitz was so shameless!

    Replies: @Bubba, @Sam Malone, @anonymous, @Testing12

    And I’m sure Bill and Hill really appreciated him namedropping them so early on in the first paragraph.

  65. @Achmed E. Newman
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Trending ... #KeepYourUnderwearOn

    Replies: @Sam Malone

    It’s the new “I never inhaled.”

  66. @Steve Sailer
    @turtlesallthewaydown

    Ghislaine's dad was pretty much a real life James Bond Villain. Epstein, the son of a Parks and Rec Department groundskeeper, was a step down.

    Replies: @utu

    From an Oxford scientist who fled to Argentina, a ‘failed’ actress branded ‘ugly’ by her father, to Britain’s biggest ever bankrupt and the ‘fireball’ twins who made the Sunday Times Rich List… What became of Robert Maxwell’s nine children?
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8486817/What-Robert-Maxwells-nine-children.html

    • Replies: @Pericles
    @utu

    Buenos Aires is something of a secret jewish hideout, isn't it?

    Replies: @Anon

  67. Bugg says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    @syonredux

    Yes.

    In Kubrick’s film "Eyes Wide Shut," there’s a costume party in which Occult/Satanic rituals are performed. At the party, the Romanian Orthodox liturgy is played backwards (doing Christian prayers backwards is a common practice of Satanic worshippers). The film rituals were actually filmed at the real-life Rothschild “Mentmore Tower” mansion (the Rothschilds sold the mansion many years before the film was produced). The party costumes are very similar to those from the real-life 1972 Rothschild party.

    In Kubrick's film, the Rothschild family crest is even featured on the throne of the Satanic priest (who’s leading the rituals). See below.

    https://twitter.com/NFrechen/status/1150120072691769344

    There’s an important character in the film (who’s apart of the Occult/Satanic rituals) whose last name is “Windsor.” Interestingly, Epstein is good friends with British Prince Andrew and is quite close to the British royal family (the House of Windsor). A coincidence, I’m sure…..

    This Youtube video explores more of the similarities between Kubrick’s film and the 1972 Rothchild party.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoMlXey70XE

    Newsweek commented on the similarities between "Eyes Wide Shut" and the Epstein prostitution ring.

    https://www.newsweek.com/eyes-wide-shut-missing-footage-epstein-kubrick-death-1449108


    In 'Eyes Wide Shut' Stanley Kubrick Captured Horrors of Jeffrey Epstein Era

     

    There were pictures taken during a law enforcement raid on Epstein's mansion. In one of the pictures, you can see the floor pattern of Epstein's home. This floor pattern is exactly the same as the pattern from Ziegler's mansion. See below.

    https://imgur.com/DL1b6i9

    Who's Ziegler? In the film "Eyes Wide Shut," Ziegler is a wealthy Jewish socialite from NYC. While he appears respectable and normal, he's secretly running a prostitution ring that caters to the elite of local society. He hosts debauched orgies (with Occult rituals) in which prostitutes are abused. Basically the same as Epstein.

    Interestingly, Ziegler wears a devil's tail, which he keeps concealed inside his pants. During a scene with a prostitute in a bathroom, Ziegler's devil tail falls out of his pants.

    Here are some other scary pictures taken inside Epstein's mansion. Notice the red light. Notice the red pitchfork on a model of Epstein's plane. Red pitchfork.

    https://imgur.com/GijJ31M

    By the way, throughout "Eyes Wide Shut," the color red is constantly displayed. Especially during the Satanic/Occult sex rituals.

    During the ending of the film, the daughter of the main characters is kidnapped by Ziegler's sex trafficking ring, with strong hints that she'll be molested and forced to become a child prostitute. See below.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pp4WDG37iU

    Throughout the film, the Star of Ishtar is displayed. So are relics of ancient temples, especially inside people's homes and during the Satanic/Occult ritual scenes.

    https://i0.wp.com/moviesupclose.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/vlcsnap-2013-05-30-14h36m58s109.png

    Who is Ishtar? She's a Sumerian deity. There was a cult of sacred temple prostitution built around her.

    TLDR Summary:

    -Stanley Kubrick's film "Eyes Wide Shut" offers a glimpse into a world of elite prostitution, debauchery, blackmail, murder, and the Occult.
    -There are STRONG similarities between the film and the 1972 Occult Rothschild party.
    -The Rothschilds are good friend of Epstein, even introducing Maxwell to Alan Dershowitz.
    -"Eyes Wide Shut" has many bizarre similarities to the world of Jeffrey Epstein.

    Replies: @Bugg, @utu, @tyrone, @Ozymandias

    Ziegler was played by Kubrick’s fellow director Sidney Pollack. In his last role, in “The Sopranos” Pollack played a oncologist incarcerated for killing his wife who helps fellow inmate crime boss Johnny Sack . At the time Pollack was himself dying of cancer. Pollack played Ziegler as the most amoral man you could imagine. Kubrick whether you believe all “The Shining” myths, was filling his movies with subliminal messages. This was 2 big time Hollywood guys telling us all their chosen business was a sewer.

    • Replies: @Sam Malone
    @Bugg

    You and Johnny Walker are both correct that Kubrik when making at least several of his films clearly went to painstaking lengths to fill them with intricately encoded hidden messages and deeper meanings.

    I highly recommend checking out the exceptionally intelligent, thoughtful and detailed film analysis on "2001 A Space Odyssey" by a guy on YouTube named Rob Ager. He has one channel under that name and another called 'Collative Learning'.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    , @JohnnyWalker123
    @Bugg

    In the movie "Eyes Wide Shut," Tom Cruise's character ("Dr. Bill") is portrayed as a married straight male. However, despite this, a group of youths engage in a bizarre "gay bashing" of him. There's another scene in which a gay male aggressively flirts with "Dr. Bill."

    Why is this interesting?

    For years, there have been all sorts of rumors about Tom Cruise's sexuality. Supposedly, he's a gay man who's pretending to be straight. It's almost like Kubrick was poking fun at Tom Cruise....

    In the movie, Nicole Kidman's character plays a mother who seems to be grooming her small daughter to become a child prostitute.

    Why is this interesting?

    Her father Anthony Kidman was arrested for being apart of a trafficking ring that groomed young children into prostitution. Shortly after being placed under investigation, he died suddenly. See below.

    https://independentaustralia.net/life/life-display/antony-kidman-dies-amidst-child-abuse-allegations,6918


    Antony Kidman dies amidst child abuse allegations

     


    at the time of his death, Kidman was under investigation by the NSW Health Care Complaints Commission (HCCC), the Psychology Council of NSW and, presumably, the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Abuse, as well as the police.
     

    Kidman’s involvement in a Sydney based paedophile ring
     
    It seems like Stanley Kubrick was subtly trying to say some very interesting things...

    Replies: @Russ

  68. @Not Raul
    @Anon

    Thanks, that’s interesting.

    However, Loomis really was a scientist; and I don’t believe that he was a conman. Epstein was the opposite.

    Does anyone have a theory about why Barr’s father got Epstein a teaching job?

    Replies: @Escher, @Mr. Anon, @CJ

    Does anyone have a theory about why Barr’s father got Epstein a teaching job?

    Epstein-Barr syndrome.

  69. utu says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    @syonredux

    Yes.

    In Kubrick’s film "Eyes Wide Shut," there’s a costume party in which Occult/Satanic rituals are performed. At the party, the Romanian Orthodox liturgy is played backwards (doing Christian prayers backwards is a common practice of Satanic worshippers). The film rituals were actually filmed at the real-life Rothschild “Mentmore Tower” mansion (the Rothschilds sold the mansion many years before the film was produced). The party costumes are very similar to those from the real-life 1972 Rothschild party.

    In Kubrick's film, the Rothschild family crest is even featured on the throne of the Satanic priest (who’s leading the rituals). See below.

    https://twitter.com/NFrechen/status/1150120072691769344

    There’s an important character in the film (who’s apart of the Occult/Satanic rituals) whose last name is “Windsor.” Interestingly, Epstein is good friends with British Prince Andrew and is quite close to the British royal family (the House of Windsor). A coincidence, I’m sure…..

    This Youtube video explores more of the similarities between Kubrick’s film and the 1972 Rothchild party.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoMlXey70XE

    Newsweek commented on the similarities between "Eyes Wide Shut" and the Epstein prostitution ring.

    https://www.newsweek.com/eyes-wide-shut-missing-footage-epstein-kubrick-death-1449108


    In 'Eyes Wide Shut' Stanley Kubrick Captured Horrors of Jeffrey Epstein Era

     

    There were pictures taken during a law enforcement raid on Epstein's mansion. In one of the pictures, you can see the floor pattern of Epstein's home. This floor pattern is exactly the same as the pattern from Ziegler's mansion. See below.

    https://imgur.com/DL1b6i9

    Who's Ziegler? In the film "Eyes Wide Shut," Ziegler is a wealthy Jewish socialite from NYC. While he appears respectable and normal, he's secretly running a prostitution ring that caters to the elite of local society. He hosts debauched orgies (with Occult rituals) in which prostitutes are abused. Basically the same as Epstein.

    Interestingly, Ziegler wears a devil's tail, which he keeps concealed inside his pants. During a scene with a prostitute in a bathroom, Ziegler's devil tail falls out of his pants.

    Here are some other scary pictures taken inside Epstein's mansion. Notice the red light. Notice the red pitchfork on a model of Epstein's plane. Red pitchfork.

    https://imgur.com/GijJ31M

    By the way, throughout "Eyes Wide Shut," the color red is constantly displayed. Especially during the Satanic/Occult sex rituals.

    During the ending of the film, the daughter of the main characters is kidnapped by Ziegler's sex trafficking ring, with strong hints that she'll be molested and forced to become a child prostitute. See below.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pp4WDG37iU

    Throughout the film, the Star of Ishtar is displayed. So are relics of ancient temples, especially inside people's homes and during the Satanic/Occult ritual scenes.

    https://i0.wp.com/moviesupclose.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/vlcsnap-2013-05-30-14h36m58s109.png

    Who is Ishtar? She's a Sumerian deity. There was a cult of sacred temple prostitution built around her.

    TLDR Summary:

    -Stanley Kubrick's film "Eyes Wide Shut" offers a glimpse into a world of elite prostitution, debauchery, blackmail, murder, and the Occult.
    -There are STRONG similarities between the film and the 1972 Occult Rothschild party.
    -The Rothschilds are good friend of Epstein, even introducing Maxwell to Alan Dershowitz.
    -"Eyes Wide Shut" has many bizarre similarities to the world of Jeffrey Epstein.

    Replies: @Bugg, @utu, @tyrone, @Ozymandias

    “Eyes Wide Shut” is based on Arthur Schnitzler’s 1926 novella Traumnovelle (Dream Story).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_Story
    “The next day, Fridolin learns that Nachtigall has been taken away by two mysterious men. He then goes to the costume shop to return his costume and discovers that the shop-owner is prostituting his teenage daughter to various men. He finds his way back to where the orgy had taken place the previous night; before he can enter, he is handed a note addressed to him by name that warns him not to pursue the matter. Later, he visits Marianne, but she no longer expresses any interest in him. Fridolin searches for Mizzi, the prostitute, but is unable to find her. He reads that a young woman has been poisoned. Suspecting that she is the woman who sacrificed herself for him, he views the woman’s corpse in the morgue but cannot identify it.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Schnitzler

    “Schnitzler was branded as a pornographer after the release of his play Reigen, in which 10 pairs of characters are shown before and after the sexual act, leading and ending with a prostitute. The furor after this play was couched in the strongest anti-semitic terms”

    “Schnitzler’s works were called “Jewish filth” by Adolf Hitler and were banned by the Nazis in Austria and Germany.”

    • Replies: @syonredux
    @utu

    And it's been theorized that the weird sex cult in Traumnovelle was based on the Frankists:


    Frankism was a Jewish religious movement of the 18th and 19th centuries,[1] centered on the leadership of the Jewish Messiah claimant Jacob Frank, who lived from 1726 to 1791. Frank rejected religious norms, and said his followers were obligated to transgress as many moral boundaries as possible. At its height it claimed perhaps 500,000 followers, primarily Jews living in Poland and other parts of Eastern Europe.[1][2][3]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankism


    After he died, his daughter took over:


    FRANK, EVA (1754–1816), daughter of the charismatic Shabbatean leader Jacob *Frank (1726–1791) and Hannah Kohen, his wife. Eva was born in Nikopol, Bulgaria, then part of the *Ottoman Empire, into the Jewish-Muslim community of the *Doenmeh. Jacob Frank was a proponent of an antinomian anarchist approach that rejected all the prohibitions and restrictions of Jewish law, including the laws of incest. This annulment was inspired by medieval mystical traditions that the foremost expression of the messianic future would be the establishment of a new code, “the era of mercy,” replacing the halakhah and the “era of harsh judgment.” Frank, who brought his family to Poland in December 1755, was charged by the Jewish community of Brody, Galicia, with instigating illicit practices. He was tried, imprisoned, and excommunicated along with his followers in June 1756.
     

    Originally named Rachel, after Jacob Frank’s mother, Rachel Herschel of Reischa, Eva is referred to in Frankist writings as the Lady, the Virgin, or Matronita, the Aramaic name of the mystical female entity Shekhinah. She became known as Eva following the conversion of her family to Christianity c. 1760. This conversion protected the Shabbatean group, which was being persecuted by Jewish communities in Galicia and Podolia for heretical views and unacceptable sexual behavior, and enabled the members to preserve their secret rituals based on messianism and anarchy in all aspects of life. The historian Peter *Beer knew Eva Frank and discussed the evolution of her names and her family’s conversion in his work on Jewish sects (1823).
     

    Jacob Frank’s autobiographical writings, preserved in Frankist circles, included a Polish text entitled “The Sayings of the Master.” This document set forth a mystical-mythical new reality in which Frank portrayed himself as a messianic figure, related to the biblical patriarch Jacob and associated with the kabbalistic entity of the divine male, Tiferet (divine glory). In this formulation, Frank’s consort is portrayed as the biblical matriarch Rachel and is also associated with the mystical entity of the divine female, Shekhinah. Frank’s wife Hannah, who was forced by her husband to play the public role of his mystical partner, the Matronita, died in great dismay at the beginning of 1770 when their daughter Eva was 16 years old.
     

    Frank did not allow his daughter to leave him or to marry, a prohibition he enforced on all his followers; they constituted a messianic community based on a communal sexual life with no incest restrictions or respect for marriage vows. He also demanded that Eva remain with him in prison when he was incarcerated between 1760 and 1772. Until his death in 1791, Eva played the roles of Rachel, the beloved of Jacob, and the Shekhinah-Matronita, the spouse of Tiferet-Ya’akov. Her father referred to his daughter with a citation from the Zohar describing the agonized Shekhinah who responds to her lover as “a beautiful maiden who has no eyes” (Zohar, Mishpatim).
     

    Jacob Frank saw himself as the eternal messiah and told his followers that Eva-Rachel should be recognized as the mystical royal figure of the Shekhinah who would lead them as a messianic redeemer while he was temporarily absent. Ultimately, Frank claimed, he would be reborn and united with his daughter in “the unity of Messiah and Shekhinah.” In the last decade of his life, Frank lived in Brno (Bruenn, then Austria) and in Offenbach in Germany with his daughter; he discussed Eva’s messianic nature in inner Frankist circles while spreading the rumor in public that she was an illegitimate child of the Russian Empress Catherine of the house of Romanov.
     

    In 1777 Frank took Eva to Vienna where both were received at the royal palace. In that year he had portraits of his daughter sent to Frankist communities in Hamburg and Altona together with pronouncements of her messianic nature. After Jacob Frank’s death in 1791, understood by his followers as a temporary disappearance, Eva led the Frankist court in Offenbach with her two younger brothers. In 1800 Eva sent letters to hundreds of Jewish communities encouraging conversion to Christianity and enlistment in the Frankist movement (see Brawer, Galicia, pp. 270–75). Her request for financial help was supported by quotations from her father’s teachings and promises of approaching messianic redemption. In 1803 the Offenbach court dismantled and the Frankists returned to Poland, where Eva conducted herself as a Romanov princess and lived as the Shabbatean-Frankist leader until her death in 1816.
     
    https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/frank-eva

    Replies: @Nodwink, @utu

    , @JohnnyWalker123
    @utu

    Right. It's a modern version of Traumnovelle, updated for late 90s NYC.

    Here are some thoughts on the film.

    -"Ziegler" is clearly Jewish. He's a rich socialite who presents a respectable face to NYC society, but is secretly running a huge prostitution ring that caters to the debauched tastes of elite locals. He seems to strongly believe in the Occult. Many of his friends are similar to him. His social circle seems to secretly exert an enormous amount of power, but is unknown to the general society.
    -Tom Cruise's character ("Dr. Bill") is a White Gentile doctor who rubs shoulders with "Ziegler" and his worldly rich friends, but is not quite at their level. "Dr. Bill" is in a subordinate role to them. He seems rather naive about women, sex, society, and all sorts of things. He's educated, but not worldly.
    -Nicole Kidman's character ("Alice") seems to be a former high-end escort who married well and is concealing her past. Due to her surface-level classiness, she can pass as respectable. The movie implies that even while being married to "Dr. Bill," she's fooling around on the side with powerful clients, being pampered by them in many ways. She's too addicted to their world of glamour, power, and drugs to ever really leave.
    -"Helena" (the couple's small daughter) is being brought up to value her beauty and money. It's strongly implied that she's being groomed to become a prostitute by her mother.
    -There's a scene in which an old man ("Lou Nathanson") dies, with his daughter calling "Dr. Bill" to come medically evaluate the man's corpse at his posh residence. She tries to initiate sex with "Dr. Bill" (near the corpse), with it being implied that she may have some necrophiliac fetish. It's vaguely implied that she may have killed her elderly father. The movie frequently portrays the intersection of death and sex as thrilling.
    -"Mr. Milich" is a Russian (likely of Jewish origin) who's secretly running a brothel that presents itself as a "costume" shop. His "costume" shop looks like a "Red Light" whorehouse.
    -The prostitute "Domino" has some similarities to "Dr. Bill's" small daughter. It's implied that the daughter will grow up to become like this prostitute.
    -Throughout the movie, there's a theme of the wealthy (like "Ziegler" and "Dr. Bill") using their affluence and power to exploit the working class, especially in sexual matters.
    -Christmas lights are literally everywhere, except the debaucherous party at the Somerton mansion. I suppose it's implied that the outside world is full of comforting illusions of peace, safety, prosperity, and joy (represented by Christmas lights). The real world (which is revealed at Somerton mansion) is far more dire and frightening. Human beings live with their illusions, with only a powerful and select few understanding the nature of the world around them.
    -The Star of Ishtar (a Sumerian deity around whom a cult of ritualized temple prostitution was built) is everywhere in the "Ziegler" mansion. Temple monuments seem to be evident at the Somerton house and "Dr. Bill's" home too. It's implied that "Alice" (the wife) is some type of ritual prostitute.
    -The Occult rituals and orgy at Somerton (which was once owned by the Rothschilds many years before the film was created) are clearly based on the real-life 1972 Rothschild "Illuminati Ball," with even the costumes being similar. Pedophilia isn't shown, but very strongly implied.
    -The prostitute "Mandy" turns on "Ziegler's" powerful sex trafficking ring to save "Dr. Bill" (who earlier saved her). After she's injected with a lethal cocktail of drugs, her death is disguised as an overdose. It's also revealed she was the "girlfriend" of fashion designer Leon Vitali (who's the Satanic priest that leads the rituals at Somerton). I suppose this was Kubrick's way of telling us the true nature of the "glamorous" fashion industry, which is really just a prostitution ring. It's also his way of telling us that many mysterious deaths of prominent people (especially overdoses) are concealed murders.
    -The fascination of the elite with the Occult is constantly portrayed throughout the film.
    -If you look at how the movie ends, "Dr. Bill" comes to realize the truly dark nature of the people who rule the society around him. He realizes his previous life was the comforting dream of a blissfully ignorant man. He realizes that the reality of the world is sinister and bleak, but only an awakened few understand this.
    -When the movie ends, "Dr. Bill's" daughter is kidnapped by "Ziegler's" goons, with it being implied that they'll molest her and force her to become a child sex slave. It's also implied that "Dr. Bill" and his wife "Alice" are allowing this to happen, under duress from "Ziegler."

    Kubrick created this film not just to bring Traumnovelle to life again, but to "Red Pill" the masses about the world around them. The point of the film is that most people have their "eyes wide shut" to the macabre nature of the world around them.

    Replies: @Not Only Wrathful, @syonredux, @HA

  70. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @JohnnyWalker123

    For reasons that take far too long to explain, I once had an answering-machine tape message containing a call from Courtney Love to my place, mumbling and blathering about who knows what. She wasn't talking to me, I've never met her. I also used to have a hilariously bizarre phone message from Wallace Shawn, but that was from a different life.

    Replies: @Sam Malone

    I don’t think an explanation could be too long for us to make sense of how a blitzed out Courtney Love once accidentally called your answering machine. I mean that’s intriguing – what year was it roughly, how were you sure it was her, who did she think she was calling, what sort of mood was she in even if you couldn’t tell what she was talking about, and why didn’t you keep the tape? I think I would even if a D-list skeezebag celebrity I didn’t care about called my home one night.

    • Replies: @Hemid
    @Sam Malone

    Everyone associated with the corporate punk rock business anytime since the '70s has had Courtney Love schizo-posting on their phone. It's what binds our people.

    "Mumbling and blathering" was her style from about '89-'94. Before and after, more yelling.

    Germ's comment is already power-leveled enough that, remembering a couple other things he's mentioned, a minor shock to the scrotum could probably make me identify him (or at least cast a line-up). Luckily we're not important. But still, hey, shhh.

    Replies: @Sam Malone

  71. The thing I find bizarre is that you can be born to a rich, classy family, yet your life’s dream is to be some filthy whorehouse madam.

    Maxwell is one of nature’s dirtbags.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    Her father didn't exactly leave her and her 8 siblings vast trust funds. Instead, he spent everything he could steal on himself. But he did name his yacht after his youngest daughter, so there was that.

    Robert Maxwell was not a classy guy. There's a great anecdote told by Reagan speechwriter about Rupert Murdoch advising him: Whatever you do, don't take a job with Robert Maxwell. I know the two of us have the same initials, but whatever anybody says about me, the truth about Maxwell is worse.

    It's like my uncle who got a job with Armand Hammer. After a year in Orange County he was back in Chicago and didn't want to talk about it, other than to say: Hammer is _not_ like they make him out to be on TV.

  72. A Boring Theory of Jeffrey Epstein

    A safe one.

  73. @Anon
    The thing I find bizarre is that you can be born to a rich, classy family, yet your life's dream is to be some filthy whorehouse madam.

    Maxwell is one of nature's dirtbags.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Her father didn’t exactly leave her and her 8 siblings vast trust funds. Instead, he spent everything he could steal on himself. But he did name his yacht after his youngest daughter, so there was that.

    Robert Maxwell was not a classy guy. There’s a great anecdote told by Reagan speechwriter about Rupert Murdoch advising him: Whatever you do, don’t take a job with Robert Maxwell. I know the two of us have the same initials, but whatever anybody says about me, the truth about Maxwell is worse.

    It’s like my uncle who got a job with Armand Hammer. After a year in Orange County he was back in Chicago and didn’t want to talk about it, other than to say: Hammer is _not_ like they make him out to be on TV.

  74. We live in a society that holds up The Scientist as an icon of moral integrity. So what better cover for a grifter than claiming to be, at heart, a fellow who loves science most of all, but who got detoured off his natural career path by his knack for making vast amounts of money for his investors?

    Your comment about scientists is really on target.

    (Slightly off topic this attitude makes it difficult to talk about unethical behaviour in science as people assume that it is an aberration and unusual or that rather than being unethical anything that happened was a misunderstanding.)

    If you hang around with scientists people may assume that you are also ethical. Royalty may have been as useful for Epstein, there is also an assumption that they are ethical.

  75. @Not Raul
    @Anon

    Thanks, that’s interesting.

    However, Loomis really was a scientist; and I don’t believe that he was a conman. Epstein was the opposite.

    Does anyone have a theory about why Barr’s father got Epstein a teaching job?

    Replies: @Escher, @Mr. Anon, @CJ

    Does anyone have a theory about why Barr’s father got Epstein a teaching job?

    He really needed a teacher?

    • Agree: Not Only Wrathful
    • Replies: @Not Raul
    @Mr. Anon

    Lots of people want to teach rich kids.

  76. An exciting theory of Jeffrey Epstein.

    The Alex Jones Prison Planet – Super Heavy Galactic Stuff [FULL EP]

  77. @Altai
    So why did Wexner give him that NYC mansion then?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Love?

    Leslie Wexner, like Sir Roderick Spode, the Fascist leader in Bertie and Jeeves novels, is a ladies’ lingerie genius. Epstein was an extremely high testosterone guy with thick dark hair on the back of hands.

    • Agree: Not Only Wrathful
    • Replies: @Altai
    @Steve Sailer

    I don't know, people like Wexner seem to get where they get in part from a deep, abiding love of money. They don't just give away something that cost $13 million in 1989. ($27 million in today's money.)

    It seems like the association between Wexner and Epstein is all about access to young, impressionable models. Maybe the 15 year olds don't become Victoria's Secret models but the agencies they get them also know where to get the 14/15 year olds. With the collapse of the Warsaw Pact, a whole new vista of young, desperate and impressionable girls came into view. The kind who might be useful in that blackmail operations Epstein is now all but confirmed to have operated to whatever ends, personal, intelligence or both.

    There are reports of Epstein at least once inviting himself to a VC audition shoot and freely harassing aspirants under false professional pretenses. As well as other, more explicit connections.

    https://nypost.com/2019/07/14/inside-the-victorias-secret-pipeline-to-jeffrey-epstein/
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/25/business/jeffrey-epstein-wexner-victorias-secret.html

    It's telling that a week after Epstein's arrest, VC cancelled their show and abruptly gave into the demands from a 15 minutes of hate internet campaign to demand they hire a transgender model long after everyone had moved on. The man who had the deepest 'business' connections with Epstein (The only confirmed client of his undefined 'business') is the one who also runs a massive lingerie company with connections to modelling agencies all over the world.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/05/business/victoria-secret-transgender-model.html

    , @Not Only Wrathful
    @Steve Sailer

    Epstein was everything Wexner couldn't let himself be. This results in the type of attraction that has a tremendous and obsessive hold on people.

  78. @utu
    @JohnnyWalker123

    “Eyes Wide Shut" is based on Arthur Schnitzler's 1926 novella Traumnovelle (Dream Story).


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_Story
    "The next day, Fridolin learns that Nachtigall has been taken away by two mysterious men. He then goes to the costume shop to return his costume and discovers that the shop-owner is prostituting his teenage daughter to various men. He finds his way back to where the orgy had taken place the previous night; before he can enter, he is handed a note addressed to him by name that warns him not to pursue the matter. Later, he visits Marianne, but she no longer expresses any interest in him. Fridolin searches for Mizzi, the prostitute, but is unable to find her. He reads that a young woman has been poisoned. Suspecting that she is the woman who sacrificed herself for him, he views the woman's corpse in the morgue but cannot identify it."
     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Schnitzler

    "Schnitzler was branded as a pornographer after the release of his play Reigen, in which 10 pairs of characters are shown before and after the sexual act, leading and ending with a prostitute. The furor after this play was couched in the strongest anti-semitic terms"

    "Schnitzler's works were called "Jewish filth" by Adolf Hitler and were banned by the Nazis in Austria and Germany."
     

    Replies: @syonredux, @JohnnyWalker123

    And it’s been theorized that the weird sex cult in Traumnovelle was based on the Frankists:

    Frankism was a Jewish religious movement of the 18th and 19th centuries,[1] centered on the leadership of the Jewish Messiah claimant Jacob Frank, who lived from 1726 to 1791. Frank rejected religious norms, and said his followers were obligated to transgress as many moral boundaries as possible. At its height it claimed perhaps 500,000 followers, primarily Jews living in Poland and other parts of Eastern Europe.[1][2][3]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankism

    After he died, his daughter took over:

    FRANK, EVA (1754–1816), daughter of the charismatic Shabbatean leader Jacob *Frank (1726–1791) and Hannah Kohen, his wife. Eva was born in Nikopol, Bulgaria, then part of the *Ottoman Empire, into the Jewish-Muslim community of the *Doenmeh. Jacob Frank was a proponent of an antinomian anarchist approach that rejected all the prohibitions and restrictions of Jewish law, including the laws of incest. This annulment was inspired by medieval mystical traditions that the foremost expression of the messianic future would be the establishment of a new code, “the era of mercy,” replacing the halakhah and the “era of harsh judgment.” Frank, who brought his family to Poland in December 1755, was charged by the Jewish community of Brody, Galicia, with instigating illicit practices. He was tried, imprisoned, and excommunicated along with his followers in June 1756.

    Originally named Rachel, after Jacob Frank’s mother, Rachel Herschel of Reischa, Eva is referred to in Frankist writings as the Lady, the Virgin, or Matronita, the Aramaic name of the mystical female entity Shekhinah. She became known as Eva following the conversion of her family to Christianity c. 1760. This conversion protected the Shabbatean group, which was being persecuted by Jewish communities in Galicia and Podolia for heretical views and unacceptable sexual behavior, and enabled the members to preserve their secret rituals based on messianism and anarchy in all aspects of life. The historian Peter *Beer knew Eva Frank and discussed the evolution of her names and her family’s conversion in his work on Jewish sects (1823).

    Jacob Frank’s autobiographical writings, preserved in Frankist circles, included a Polish text entitled “The Sayings of the Master.” This document set forth a mystical-mythical new reality in which Frank portrayed himself as a messianic figure, related to the biblical patriarch Jacob and associated with the kabbalistic entity of the divine male, Tiferet (divine glory). In this formulation, Frank’s consort is portrayed as the biblical matriarch Rachel and is also associated with the mystical entity of the divine female, Shekhinah. Frank’s wife Hannah, who was forced by her husband to play the public role of his mystical partner, the Matronita, died in great dismay at the beginning of 1770 when their daughter Eva was 16 years old.

    Frank did not allow his daughter to leave him or to marry, a prohibition he enforced on all his followers; they constituted a messianic community based on a communal sexual life with no incest restrictions or respect for marriage vows. He also demanded that Eva remain with him in prison when he was incarcerated between 1760 and 1772. Until his death in 1791, Eva played the roles of Rachel, the beloved of Jacob, and the Shekhinah-Matronita, the spouse of Tiferet-Ya’akov. Her father referred to his daughter with a citation from the Zohar describing the agonized Shekhinah who responds to her lover as “a beautiful maiden who has no eyes” (Zohar, Mishpatim).

    Jacob Frank saw himself as the eternal messiah and told his followers that Eva-Rachel should be recognized as the mystical royal figure of the Shekhinah who would lead them as a messianic redeemer while he was temporarily absent. Ultimately, Frank claimed, he would be reborn and united with his daughter in “the unity of Messiah and Shekhinah.” In the last decade of his life, Frank lived in Brno (Bruenn, then Austria) and in Offenbach in Germany with his daughter; he discussed Eva’s messianic nature in inner Frankist circles while spreading the rumor in public that she was an illegitimate child of the Russian Empress Catherine of the house of Romanov.

    In 1777 Frank took Eva to Vienna where both were received at the royal palace. In that year he had portraits of his daughter sent to Frankist communities in Hamburg and Altona together with pronouncements of her messianic nature. After Jacob Frank’s death in 1791, understood by his followers as a temporary disappearance, Eva led the Frankist court in Offenbach with her two younger brothers. In 1800 Eva sent letters to hundreds of Jewish communities encouraging conversion to Christianity and enlistment in the Frankist movement (see Brawer, Galicia, pp. 270–75). Her request for financial help was supported by quotations from her father’s teachings and promises of approaching messianic redemption. In 1803 the Offenbach court dismantled and the Frankists returned to Poland, where Eva conducted herself as a Romanov princess and lived as the Shabbatean-Frankist leader until her death in 1816.

    https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/frank-eva

    • Replies: @Nodwink
    @syonredux

    Jacob Frank was mentioned in this piece by Gilad Atzmon:

    https://www.unz.com/gatzmon/predators-united/

    , @utu
    @syonredux

    Sexual orgy was (perhaps still is in Turkey) practiced by Donmeh (Sabbatean Muslims). Children born from it are considered special.


    http://perspectives.ajsnet.org/transgression-issue/the-redemptive-power-of-sexual-anarchy/
    The most basic description of the festival, based on several historical and contemporary accounts, is as follows: on the night of 22 Adar (sometime in mid-March) the couples gather and perform a series of rituals in a ceremonial manner. The most important element of the meal at the dinner table is the seasonal lamb. Before that day, believers were supposed to refrain from eating mutton. The dinner is accompanied by songs, hymns, prayers, and drinks. At the end of the night, according to the most widely circulated rumors, the couples extinguish the lights and randomly swap partners. Babies who were conceived on that night were believed to be holy and would-be messiahs. Yitzhak Ben Zvi, an Israeli politician and historian who visited the Dönme communities several times in the first half of the twentieth century, noted: "The candles are put out in the course of the dinner which is attended by orgies and the ceremony of the exchange of wives."
     
  79. @Bugg
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Ziegler was played by Kubrick's fellow director Sidney Pollack. In his last role, in "The Sopranos" Pollack played a oncologist incarcerated for killing his wife who helps fellow inmate crime boss Johnny Sack . At the time Pollack was himself dying of cancer. Pollack played Ziegler as the most amoral man you could imagine. Kubrick whether you believe all "The Shining" myths, was filling his movies with subliminal messages. This was 2 big time Hollywood guys telling us all their chosen business was a sewer.

    Replies: @Sam Malone, @JohnnyWalker123

    You and Johnny Walker are both correct that Kubrik when making at least several of his films clearly went to painstaking lengths to fill them with intricately encoded hidden messages and deeper meanings.

    I highly recommend checking out the exceptionally intelligent, thoughtful and detailed film analysis on “2001 A Space Odyssey” by a guy on YouTube named Rob Ager. He has one channel under that name and another called ‘Collative Learning’.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Sam Malone

    I highly recommend checking out the exceptionally intelligent, thoughtful and detailed film analysis on “2001 A Space Odyssey” by a guy on YouTube named Rob Ager. He has one channel under that name and another called ‘Collative Learning’.

    Because the movie itself was soporific.

  80. Anon[269] • Disclaimer says:

    Here are some problems I see with the more outlandish Epstein theories:

    Underaged girls. The girls in question seem to have been over the age of consent from the beginning in the case of all substatiated testimony by named, identifiable “survivors.” This may gobsmack you since nobody seems to be pointing it out, but read closely claims to the contrary and track back the evidence. For instance, you find an anonymous “survivor” who supposedly said she saw another girl who looked 14, stuff like that.

    Story that Epstein never traded stocks. I traced this back to a piece I believe in Vanity Fair, where the journalist asked a couple of unidentified friends holding down undescribed jobs made that comment. Why would a couple of guys in the financial industry know whether Epstein was trading or not? Yet this claim has appeared all over the place as though it came from a reliable person who would have that information.

    Today in the NY Post: A crazy anti-Epstein column, containing no factual allegations other than: a “survivor” in a NetFlix doc pointed to holes in the exterior of Epstein’s NY digs and said they were for cameras and the place was full of secret cameras that Epstein monitored from a secret room. That is a factual allegation which can be proven or disproven. Let’s hope we hear the results of that. But until then:

    o The “Trial of Jesus” problem in textual analysis: Claims made by someone not in a postition to know (vd. above re stock trading) are unreliable. Why would a young survivor know about a secret video system and room?

    o Why would an exterior surveillance system use secret cameras? Or if the holes were just screws for a normal exterior security camera, why are they evidence of an interior secret surveillance system? The nature of the holes should be able to be determined by any passerby with a stepladder.

    o Who installed the system? Do staff or neighbors remember such a construction project? Were staff given a vacation and told to stay away from the house for awhile? Which room was the monitoring room? There should be a lot of evidence remaining that cables, cameras, and mic’s were there. A lot of people could be questioned about this.

    o Where are the videos? Has anyone claimed to have seen video? Has anyone claimed to have witnessed a burning of videoss?

    All claims just kind of peter off into flaky sourcing (anonymous survivors, survivors with no specific knowledge), or turn into non-crimes (survivors who were adults, took money, and wished they had gone to college instead and not thrown away their youth as bimbos to sugardaddies).

    • Agree: Not Only Wrathful
    • Replies: @Alden
    @Anon

    He recruited the Florida girls from the high schools, that’s underage. In fact, the first 2 girls who attracted the attention of law enforcement were 14. Prostitution and pimping of women and men of any age is against the law. The girls gave sex in exchange for money. Epstein gave them money. That’s prostitution whether age 12, 20 or 40.

    The defenders of Maxwell and Epstein on this site keep trying to twist the discussion into age of consent, not prostitution.

    Anyone who’s ever worked in law enforcement or studied prostitution knows that there’s a constant process of recruitment. Black street pimps call their men recruiters henchmen.

    Teen prostitutes require more intensive recruitment efforts than young adults for various reasons. First they’re under standard teen restrictions whether they live at home or in group homes for delinquents. It’s not easy for them to be working as hookers at night. Second, teen girls often become prostitutes when Prince Charming recruits them, find they don’t like it and run away right back home.

    Whether it’s skanky retarded street hookers or very expensive escort agencies recruitment and retain ment is a major part of the prostitution business. Adult women answer escort agency ads voluntarily. But the escort women are under constant pressure to recruit others. An escort agency that the customers pay but doesn’t give the prostitutes their share doesn’t last long . High school girls have to be recruited.

    And as the Palm Beach police chief always said
    “ It’s not the typical he said she said thing. It’s one he and 300 shes and all the shes tell the same story”.

    Replies: @Anon

    , @Alden
    @Anon

    I read the indictment. The second count is perjury that occurred at depositions in 2016 in which “ “Maxwell repeatedly lied”

    The first count is enticing, grooming and procuring underage girls some as young as 14 for prostitution and sex abuse by Jeffrey Epstein from 1994-1997
    That’s the federal indictment charges for Maxwell Nothing about young adults or girls over the age of consent.

    Since Virginia Roberts was 11-14 years old 1994-1997, she is not involved in this federal case at all Roberts claims she was recruited by Maxwell when she was 15.

    Read the indictment

  81. @Bugg
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Ziegler was played by Kubrick's fellow director Sidney Pollack. In his last role, in "The Sopranos" Pollack played a oncologist incarcerated for killing his wife who helps fellow inmate crime boss Johnny Sack . At the time Pollack was himself dying of cancer. Pollack played Ziegler as the most amoral man you could imagine. Kubrick whether you believe all "The Shining" myths, was filling his movies with subliminal messages. This was 2 big time Hollywood guys telling us all their chosen business was a sewer.

    Replies: @Sam Malone, @JohnnyWalker123

    In the movie “Eyes Wide Shut,” Tom Cruise’s character (“Dr. Bill”) is portrayed as a married straight male. However, despite this, a group of youths engage in a bizarre “gay bashing” of him. There’s another scene in which a gay male aggressively flirts with “Dr. Bill.”

    Why is this interesting?

    For years, there have been all sorts of rumors about Tom Cruise’s sexuality. Supposedly, he’s a gay man who’s pretending to be straight. It’s almost like Kubrick was poking fun at Tom Cruise….

    In the movie, Nicole Kidman’s character plays a mother who seems to be grooming her small daughter to become a child prostitute.

    Why is this interesting?

    Her father Anthony Kidman was arrested for being apart of a trafficking ring that groomed young children into prostitution. Shortly after being placed under investigation, he died suddenly. See below.

    https://independentaustralia.net/life/life-display/antony-kidman-dies-amidst-child-abuse-allegations,6918

    Antony Kidman dies amidst child abuse allegations

    at the time of his death, Kidman was under investigation by the NSW Health Care Complaints Commission (HCCC), the Psychology Council of NSW and, presumably, the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Abuse, as well as the police.

    Kidman’s involvement in a Sydney based paedophile ring

    It seems like Stanley Kubrick was subtly trying to say some very interesting things…

    • Replies: @Russ
    @JohnnyWalker123


    It seems like Stanley Kubrick was subtly trying to say some very interesting things…
     
    Well, the Cruise-Kidman marriage certainly dissolved soon after the film's release. As for Cruise: Earlier wife Mimi Rogers (whose, uh, acting in "Full Body Massage" is unexcelled) reportedly exulted in giving birth to her next man's baby in such manner so as to tweak Cruise, so there is also that angle; has Cruise no natural children of his own? Scientology is also involved ... hardly surprisingly.
  82. @JohnnyWalker123
    Epstein owned a sex slave named Virginia Giuffre.

    She alleges that she was trafficked to the following men:

    -Prince Andrew
    -Alan Dershowitz
    -New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson
    -Billionaire financier Glenn Dubin (whose wife is the former Miss Sweden Eva Andersson-Dubin)
    -Former Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell
    -Modeling mogul Jean-Luc Brunel
    -A prince
    -A foreign president
    – A “well-known” prime minister
    -The owner of a large hotel chain in France

    Virginia Giuffre with Prince Andrew.

    https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2019/12/virginia-roberts-interview-08-1.jpg?quality=80&strip=all

    Alan Dershowitz thinks Virginia Giuffre is a prostitute.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GlK8dr6MP0

    Alan Dershowitz kept his underwear on while he was massaged at Epstein's house.

    https://twitter.com/Sharon46601576/status/1279201013400993793

    TLDR Summary: Dershowitz admits he got one massage at Epstein's house, but he kept his underwear on. So it's all good.

    Replies: @DextersLabRat, @Jim Don Bob, @Achmed E. Newman, @anon, @Joe, Averaged, @Dieter Kief

    TLDR Summary: Dershowitz admits he got one massage at Epstein’s house, but he kept his underwear on. So it’s all good.

    Yeah that. Plus: She didn’t inhale, right?

  83. @Sam Malone
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    I don't think an explanation could be too long for us to make sense of how a blitzed out Courtney Love once accidentally called your answering machine. I mean that's intriguing - what year was it roughly, how were you sure it was her, who did she think she was calling, what sort of mood was she in even if you couldn't tell what she was talking about, and why didn't you keep the tape? I think I would even if a D-list skeezebag celebrity I didn't care about called my home one night.

    Replies: @Hemid

    Everyone associated with the corporate punk rock business anytime since the ’70s has had Courtney Love schizo-posting on their phone. It’s what binds our people.

    “Mumbling and blathering” was her style from about ’89-’94. Before and after, more yelling.

    Germ’s comment is already power-leveled enough that, remembering a couple other things he’s mentioned, a minor shock to the scrotum could probably make me identify him (or at least cast a line-up). Luckily we’re not important. But still, hey, shhh.

    • Replies: @Sam Malone
    @Hemid

    Ha, ok I see.

  84. We see the neocons on here say the same thing about this case, that it’s not a big deal. They even go Freudian and suggest that the people making a big deal of it are driven by some psychopathology.

    Another thing they will do is make lots of off topic comments when this case comes up here. That is quite effective, you see lots of goyim taking the bait and talking about the distractions rather than the issue.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
    @ATBOTL

    Misdirection is a classic rhetorical tactic - along with tu quoque and whatabout-ism - for those who know their core argument is weak. For people like Dershowitz it's almost pathological - which is why he seldom says 2 sentences without at least one of them being irrelevant.


    If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers. - Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"", 1973
     
    Most of the people who participate in Epstein-type debauchery groups aren't paedophiles. They participate because refusing to do so freezes them out of a segment of society to which they want to belong.

    Breaches of societal taboos are the device by which aspirants show themselves willing to do anything to belong. They willingly furnish kompromat on themselves.

    It's C. S. Lewis' "The Inner Ring", writ large.

    This is very different from the old-fashioned honeypot like the ones that the USSR used to 'turn' Philby, Burgess, McLean, Blunt and Cairncross... and at least two dozen others.

    Honeypots have 'marks' or 'targets'. By contrast, "how far will you go?" political-filter operations have aspirants.

    In a standard honeypot, the mark has the characteristic in question (e.g., homosexuality, infidelity, drug use, paedophilia) and doesn't know he's the target. The kompromat is obtained without the mark's knowledge, and the 'reveal' is "OK, from now on, you do as we say or your life is fucked".

    In a political filter, the characteristic is irrelevant, and by the time the aspirant is passing more-degenerate hurdles, he knows that it's all on tape. It's a loyalty test.

    The initiatory phases tend to be small-potatoes stuff, e.g., going to a strip club at the invitation of a senior colleague. Things that are moderately embarrassing in polite circles, but are nevertheless 'career-survivable'. Anyone who draws the line at that point is far too soft to be useful, and the event that they 'balk' at is relatively unremarkable.

    Thereafter, progress further into the ring "asks more" of the aspirant.

    People who want to be in the Inner Ring are generally willing to do anything asked of them - whether it's stupid robes-and-chanting Aleister Crowley LARP, or (at the limit) raping a child.

    And of course there are people in each ring who do strongly-prefer the degeneracy being asked of the aspirants. It's just not true for most aspirants.

  85. @Steve Sailer
    @Altai

    Love?

    Leslie Wexner, like Sir Roderick Spode, the Fascist leader in Bertie and Jeeves novels, is a ladies' lingerie genius. Epstein was an extremely high testosterone guy with thick dark hair on the back of hands.

    Replies: @Altai, @Not Only Wrathful

    I don’t know, people like Wexner seem to get where they get in part from a deep, abiding love of money. They don’t just give away something that cost $13 million in 1989. ($27 million in today’s money.)

    It seems like the association between Wexner and Epstein is all about access to young, impressionable models. Maybe the 15 year olds don’t become Victoria’s Secret models but the agencies they get them also know where to get the 14/15 year olds. With the collapse of the Warsaw Pact, a whole new vista of young, desperate and impressionable girls came into view. The kind who might be useful in that blackmail operations Epstein is now all but confirmed to have operated to whatever ends, personal, intelligence or both.

    There are reports of Epstein at least once inviting himself to a VC audition shoot and freely harassing aspirants under false professional pretenses. As well as other, more explicit connections.

    https://nypost.com/2019/07/14/inside-the-victorias-secret-pipeline-to-jeffrey-epstein/
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/25/business/jeffrey-epstein-wexner-victorias-secret.html

    It’s telling that a week after Epstein’s arrest, VC cancelled their show and abruptly gave into the demands from a 15 minutes of hate internet campaign to demand they hire a transgender model long after everyone had moved on. The man who had the deepest ‘business’ connections with Epstein (The only confirmed client of his undefined ‘business’) is the one who also runs a massive lingerie company with connections to modelling agencies all over the world.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/05/business/victoria-secret-transgender-model.html

  86. Anon[391] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman
    Is the conspiracy theory that Miss Maxwell and the late Jeffrey Epstein have/had some dirt on Alan Dershowitz? Yes, that is likely, just from seeing his glowing defense of the lady, but, yes, boring.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Anon

    Dershowitz is an ardent Zionist. If there is any inappropriate activity on his part in regards to Jeffery Epstein and Maxwell, I’d suspect it would be in the form of legal advice given to them. Perhaps Mr. Dershowitz was aware of a Mossad connection and did everything in his power to further its aims on behalf of Israel’s interests? It was clearly an intelligence operation according to the former labor secretary. That would be my guess. Doubt Dershowitz did anything sexual. He wouldn’t be that stupid.

    • Replies: @Testing12
    @Anon

    These shills always come up in certain threads and have similar usernames.

  87. @utu
    @JohnnyWalker123

    “Eyes Wide Shut" is based on Arthur Schnitzler's 1926 novella Traumnovelle (Dream Story).


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_Story
    "The next day, Fridolin learns that Nachtigall has been taken away by two mysterious men. He then goes to the costume shop to return his costume and discovers that the shop-owner is prostituting his teenage daughter to various men. He finds his way back to where the orgy had taken place the previous night; before he can enter, he is handed a note addressed to him by name that warns him not to pursue the matter. Later, he visits Marianne, but she no longer expresses any interest in him. Fridolin searches for Mizzi, the prostitute, but is unable to find her. He reads that a young woman has been poisoned. Suspecting that she is the woman who sacrificed herself for him, he views the woman's corpse in the morgue but cannot identify it."
     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Schnitzler

    "Schnitzler was branded as a pornographer after the release of his play Reigen, in which 10 pairs of characters are shown before and after the sexual act, leading and ending with a prostitute. The furor after this play was couched in the strongest anti-semitic terms"

    "Schnitzler's works were called "Jewish filth" by Adolf Hitler and were banned by the Nazis in Austria and Germany."
     

    Replies: @syonredux, @JohnnyWalker123

    Right. It’s a modern version of Traumnovelle, updated for late 90s NYC.

    Here are some thoughts on the film.

    -“Ziegler” is clearly Jewish. He’s a rich socialite who presents a respectable face to NYC society, but is secretly running a huge prostitution ring that caters to the debauched tastes of elite locals. He seems to strongly believe in the Occult. Many of his friends are similar to him. His social circle seems to secretly exert an enormous amount of power, but is unknown to the general society.
    -Tom Cruise’s character (“Dr. Bill”) is a White Gentile doctor who rubs shoulders with “Ziegler” and his worldly rich friends, but is not quite at their level. “Dr. Bill” is in a subordinate role to them. He seems rather naive about women, sex, society, and all sorts of things. He’s educated, but not worldly.
    -Nicole Kidman’s character (“Alice”) seems to be a former high-end escort who married well and is concealing her past. Due to her surface-level classiness, she can pass as respectable. The movie implies that even while being married to “Dr. Bill,” she’s fooling around on the side with powerful clients, being pampered by them in many ways. She’s too addicted to their world of glamour, power, and drugs to ever really leave.
    -“Helena” (the couple’s small daughter) is being brought up to value her beauty and money. It’s strongly implied that she’s being groomed to become a prostitute by her mother.
    -There’s a scene in which an old man (“Lou Nathanson”) dies, with his daughter calling “Dr. Bill” to come medically evaluate the man’s corpse at his posh residence. She tries to initiate sex with “Dr. Bill” (near the corpse), with it being implied that she may have some necrophiliac fetish. It’s vaguely implied that she may have killed her elderly father. The movie frequently portrays the intersection of death and sex as thrilling.
    -“Mr. Milich” is a Russian (likely of Jewish origin) who’s secretly running a brothel that presents itself as a “costume” shop. His “costume” shop looks like a “Red Light” whorehouse.
    -The prostitute “Domino” has some similarities to “Dr. Bill’s” small daughter. It’s implied that the daughter will grow up to become like this prostitute.
    -Throughout the movie, there’s a theme of the wealthy (like “Ziegler” and “Dr. Bill”) using their affluence and power to exploit the working class, especially in sexual matters.
    -Christmas lights are literally everywhere, except the debaucherous party at the Somerton mansion. I suppose it’s implied that the outside world is full of comforting illusions of peace, safety, prosperity, and joy (represented by Christmas lights). The real world (which is revealed at Somerton mansion) is far more dire and frightening. Human beings live with their illusions, with only a powerful and select few understanding the nature of the world around them.
    -The Star of Ishtar (a Sumerian deity around whom a cult of ritualized temple prostitution was built) is everywhere in the “Ziegler” mansion. Temple monuments seem to be evident at the Somerton house and “Dr. Bill’s” home too. It’s implied that “Alice” (the wife) is some type of ritual prostitute.
    -The Occult rituals and orgy at Somerton (which was once owned by the Rothschilds many years before the film was created) are clearly based on the real-life 1972 Rothschild “Illuminati Ball,” with even the costumes being similar. Pedophilia isn’t shown, but very strongly implied.
    -The prostitute “Mandy” turns on “Ziegler’s” powerful sex trafficking ring to save “Dr. Bill” (who earlier saved her). After she’s injected with a lethal cocktail of drugs, her death is disguised as an overdose. It’s also revealed she was the “girlfriend” of fashion designer Leon Vitali (who’s the Satanic priest that leads the rituals at Somerton). I suppose this was Kubrick’s way of telling us the true nature of the “glamorous” fashion industry, which is really just a prostitution ring. It’s also his way of telling us that many mysterious deaths of prominent people (especially overdoses) are concealed murders.
    -The fascination of the elite with the Occult is constantly portrayed throughout the film.
    -If you look at how the movie ends, “Dr. Bill” comes to realize the truly dark nature of the people who rule the society around him. He realizes his previous life was the comforting dream of a blissfully ignorant man. He realizes that the reality of the world is sinister and bleak, but only an awakened few understand this.
    -When the movie ends, “Dr. Bill’s” daughter is kidnapped by “Ziegler’s” goons, with it being implied that they’ll molest her and force her to become a child sex slave. It’s also implied that “Dr. Bill” and his wife “Alice” are allowing this to happen, under duress from “Ziegler.”

    Kubrick created this film not just to bring Traumnovelle to life again, but to “Red Pill” the masses about the world around them. The point of the film is that most people have their “eyes wide shut” to the macabre nature of the world around them.

    • Thanks: utu
    • Replies: @Not Only Wrathful
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Your analysis of the film is good. The world portrayed is a shadow world. It is dreamlike and effervescent.

    This makes sense because it feels deeper and truer than the nice stuff on the surface. The film is an exploration of the unconscious, and this is why it is so powerful and popular. Were it merely a documentary disguised as entertainment, it'd be far less magnetic.

    Since you're so drawn to it, what you see is a projection of you, especially that which you bury far below the surface.

    I love the film!

    Nonetheless, you've jumped into nonsense by thinking it is a direct portrayal of current events. This is what crazy people often do. They take their dreams/nightmares and externalise them, rather than facing them. It is the first step into paranoid schizophrenia. Or bizarre fanatical politics.

    , @syonredux
    @JohnnyWalker123


    “Ziegler” is clearly Jewish.
     
    Ziegler's Jewishness is reinforced by the fact that Harvey Keitel was originally cast as the character. After a falling out with Kubrick, the part was re-cast with Sydney Pollack. Since both men are Jewish, it seems pretty clear that Kubrick wanted a Jewish performer in the part.

    https://www.anothermag.com/design-living/11844/debunking-the-myths-of-eyes-wide-shut-stanley-kubricks-final-film

    Tom Cruise’s character (“Dr. Bill”) is a White Gentile doctor
     
    In the book (Traumnovelle), Cruise's character is named Fridolin and is Jewish. Kubrick very deliberately wanted the character to be non-Jewish in the film:

    Kubrick determined Bill should be a "Harrison Ford-ish goy" and created the surname of Harford as an allusion to the actor.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyes_Wide_Shut

    Bill and Alice Harford, the decidedly gentile married couple that the actors portrayed in 1999’s Eyes Wide Shut, are about as kosher as a bacon milkshake. But when Stanley Kubrick first conceived of adapting Arthur Schnitzler’s 1926 novella Traumnovelle in the Seventies, the filmmaker allegedly envisioned the male lead as Woody Allen, a man so Jewish that Shabbat practically observes him.
     

    Kubrick’s initial casting idea, which is all but inconceivable to anyone who’s seen the finished film, had been prompted by fidelity to its Freudian-to-a-fault source material. At some point during the intervening decades between Kubrick’s decision to bring the Schnitzler story to the screen and the first day of production, he had a change of heart. According to Kubrick’s credited co-writer, Frederic Raphael, the director eventually insisted that his protagonists be made “vanilla” Americans so as to establish a more perfect sense of normalcy for his smirking erotic psychodrama to defile.
     
    https://www.rollingstone.com/movies/movie-news/why-eyes-wide-shut-is-a-bizarro-holiday-classic-33753/


    And, yes, Harrison Ford is half-Jewish:

    Harrison Ford


    Place of Birth: Chicago, Illinois, U.S.

    Date of Birth: July 13, 1942

    Ethnicity:
    *father – Irish, some German
    *mother – Ashkenazi Jewish

    Harrison’s father was born in Manhattan, New York, of three quarters Irish and one quarter German ancestry. Harrison’s mother, also born in New York, was Jewish, the daughter of Jewish emigrants from Minsk, Belarus (at that time, Minsk was part of the Russian Empire).
     
    https://ethnicelebs.com/harrison-ford

    But, as Kubrick's comment makes clear, Ford's persona is very non-Jewish.
    , @HA
    @JohnnyWalker123

    "Nicole Kidman’s character (“Alice”) seems to be a former high-end escort who married well and is concealing her past. Due to her surface-level classiness, she can pass as respectable. The movie implies that even while being married to “Dr. Bill,” she’s fooling around on the side with powerful clients, being pampered by them in many ways. ...“Helena” (the couple’s small daughter) is being brought up to value her beauty and money. It’s strongly implied that she’s being groomed to become a prostitute by her mother."

    Granted we're discussing a very weird film, but this is just nuts -- maybe next time, people should wait until the hallucinogens wear off before watching Kubrick. The Alice character actually admits, by way of a shocker opening, that one year earlier she had considered having an affair during their vacation. From this and the dream sequences that follow you conclude that she is "a former high-end escort who...is concealing her past" and that it is "strongly implied" that couple's daughter is "being groomed to become a prostitute by her mother."

    OK, I guess, but isn't there already enough weird and kinky stuff in that movie to where you don't have to grasp at straws to find more material?

    Of course, you're free to visualize whatever twisted things you want, like all those weird riffs on "The Shining" and you're not alone in seeing this kind of thing but given that, you don't have much in the way of credibility when it comes to any real-life grooming rings, Epstein or otherwise. In fact, if there's a conspiracy theory to be made here, it's that those who are pushing these weird "interpretations" are either paid stooges or useful idiots for one of these grooming outfits, busily trying to discredit and/or shut down any legitimate investigation by derailing the discussion into ever weirder tangents involving the Illuminati, Satanists, etc. I'll give you the Mossad, given the Maxwell connections, but you don't need to bring in the Illuminati or the lizard people just yet.

    Indeed, in the case of the so-called Satanic child abuse hysteria, this derailing was effected (intentionally or through sincere misguided zeal) by overweening child mediators who eventually were able to get the alleged child victims to discuss how their abusers could fly in mid-air and that one of them was Chuck Norris in some underground pedo chamber. As a result, people are still wasting time with that embarrassment of prosecutorial overreach instead of following up very real and just-as-disturbing pedo rings, e.g. Operation Cathedral, whose unidentified victims (in the stash of polaroids and other "source material") number in the thousands to this day.

    One interesting thing about Operation Cathedral is that the investigation started with police from a wider group of countries than the one it ended with. Eventually, the task force had to be narrowed down because certain countries couldn't provide assurances that they wouldn't just tip off the people on the list who were fellow nationals. Chew on that for a minute. So yeah, that's plenty disturbing enough.

  88. HA says:
    @Jim Don Bob
    @JohnnyWalker123

    3 things:
    1) Virginia Giuffre doesn't look unhappy in that picture.
    2) She is not that good looking. I mean, Jesus H. Christ, if you're gonna run an international teenage hooker ring, why wouldn't you get some cuties?
    3) Where are the other females who were trafficked? Even if they signed NDAs in 2008, there is money and fame in #MeToo by coming forward now.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @Nathan, @HA, @sayless, @Almost Missouri

    “Where are the other females who were trafficked? Even if they signed NDAs in 2008, there is money and fame in #MeToo by coming forward now.”

    How much money are we talking about (and is it worth the added risk of “suicide”)?

    And you mean fame as in “being known forever for the year or two of my life where I was a catatonic junkie passed around from one rich man to another, though, given the chemicals, and the fact that it was never my proudest moment, and is actually one I’d like to forget, I’m not really clear on the details”? You’re really wondering why there isn’t a long line queueing up for a slice of that?

    There are certainly others who have come forward (see, e.g., the numerous on-air interviews in the Netflix special), but even some of those admitted that they helped procure other girls for Epstein during their time under his influence. Again, not the kind of fame one typically queues up for and I doubt they received a big wheelbarrow of cash for their interviews.

  89. @Ari Silver
    Epstein is a Mossad agent who blackmails prominent goys.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Kratoklastes

    It’s a little chagrining the lengths this ostensibly Occam’s Razor-y forum will go to avoid your nine-word conclusion.

  90. @syonredux
    @utu

    And it's been theorized that the weird sex cult in Traumnovelle was based on the Frankists:


    Frankism was a Jewish religious movement of the 18th and 19th centuries,[1] centered on the leadership of the Jewish Messiah claimant Jacob Frank, who lived from 1726 to 1791. Frank rejected religious norms, and said his followers were obligated to transgress as many moral boundaries as possible. At its height it claimed perhaps 500,000 followers, primarily Jews living in Poland and other parts of Eastern Europe.[1][2][3]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankism


    After he died, his daughter took over:


    FRANK, EVA (1754–1816), daughter of the charismatic Shabbatean leader Jacob *Frank (1726–1791) and Hannah Kohen, his wife. Eva was born in Nikopol, Bulgaria, then part of the *Ottoman Empire, into the Jewish-Muslim community of the *Doenmeh. Jacob Frank was a proponent of an antinomian anarchist approach that rejected all the prohibitions and restrictions of Jewish law, including the laws of incest. This annulment was inspired by medieval mystical traditions that the foremost expression of the messianic future would be the establishment of a new code, “the era of mercy,” replacing the halakhah and the “era of harsh judgment.” Frank, who brought his family to Poland in December 1755, was charged by the Jewish community of Brody, Galicia, with instigating illicit practices. He was tried, imprisoned, and excommunicated along with his followers in June 1756.
     

    Originally named Rachel, after Jacob Frank’s mother, Rachel Herschel of Reischa, Eva is referred to in Frankist writings as the Lady, the Virgin, or Matronita, the Aramaic name of the mystical female entity Shekhinah. She became known as Eva following the conversion of her family to Christianity c. 1760. This conversion protected the Shabbatean group, which was being persecuted by Jewish communities in Galicia and Podolia for heretical views and unacceptable sexual behavior, and enabled the members to preserve their secret rituals based on messianism and anarchy in all aspects of life. The historian Peter *Beer knew Eva Frank and discussed the evolution of her names and her family’s conversion in his work on Jewish sects (1823).
     

    Jacob Frank’s autobiographical writings, preserved in Frankist circles, included a Polish text entitled “The Sayings of the Master.” This document set forth a mystical-mythical new reality in which Frank portrayed himself as a messianic figure, related to the biblical patriarch Jacob and associated with the kabbalistic entity of the divine male, Tiferet (divine glory). In this formulation, Frank’s consort is portrayed as the biblical matriarch Rachel and is also associated with the mystical entity of the divine female, Shekhinah. Frank’s wife Hannah, who was forced by her husband to play the public role of his mystical partner, the Matronita, died in great dismay at the beginning of 1770 when their daughter Eva was 16 years old.
     

    Frank did not allow his daughter to leave him or to marry, a prohibition he enforced on all his followers; they constituted a messianic community based on a communal sexual life with no incest restrictions or respect for marriage vows. He also demanded that Eva remain with him in prison when he was incarcerated between 1760 and 1772. Until his death in 1791, Eva played the roles of Rachel, the beloved of Jacob, and the Shekhinah-Matronita, the spouse of Tiferet-Ya’akov. Her father referred to his daughter with a citation from the Zohar describing the agonized Shekhinah who responds to her lover as “a beautiful maiden who has no eyes” (Zohar, Mishpatim).
     

    Jacob Frank saw himself as the eternal messiah and told his followers that Eva-Rachel should be recognized as the mystical royal figure of the Shekhinah who would lead them as a messianic redeemer while he was temporarily absent. Ultimately, Frank claimed, he would be reborn and united with his daughter in “the unity of Messiah and Shekhinah.” In the last decade of his life, Frank lived in Brno (Bruenn, then Austria) and in Offenbach in Germany with his daughter; he discussed Eva’s messianic nature in inner Frankist circles while spreading the rumor in public that she was an illegitimate child of the Russian Empress Catherine of the house of Romanov.
     

    In 1777 Frank took Eva to Vienna where both were received at the royal palace. In that year he had portraits of his daughter sent to Frankist communities in Hamburg and Altona together with pronouncements of her messianic nature. After Jacob Frank’s death in 1791, understood by his followers as a temporary disappearance, Eva led the Frankist court in Offenbach with her two younger brothers. In 1800 Eva sent letters to hundreds of Jewish communities encouraging conversion to Christianity and enlistment in the Frankist movement (see Brawer, Galicia, pp. 270–75). Her request for financial help was supported by quotations from her father’s teachings and promises of approaching messianic redemption. In 1803 the Offenbach court dismantled and the Frankists returned to Poland, where Eva conducted herself as a Romanov princess and lived as the Shabbatean-Frankist leader until her death in 1816.
     
    https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/frank-eva

    Replies: @Nodwink, @utu

    Jacob Frank was mentioned in this piece by Gilad Atzmon:

    https://www.unz.com/gatzmon/predators-united/

  91. utu says:
    @syonredux
    @utu

    And it's been theorized that the weird sex cult in Traumnovelle was based on the Frankists:


    Frankism was a Jewish religious movement of the 18th and 19th centuries,[1] centered on the leadership of the Jewish Messiah claimant Jacob Frank, who lived from 1726 to 1791. Frank rejected religious norms, and said his followers were obligated to transgress as many moral boundaries as possible. At its height it claimed perhaps 500,000 followers, primarily Jews living in Poland and other parts of Eastern Europe.[1][2][3]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankism


    After he died, his daughter took over:


    FRANK, EVA (1754–1816), daughter of the charismatic Shabbatean leader Jacob *Frank (1726–1791) and Hannah Kohen, his wife. Eva was born in Nikopol, Bulgaria, then part of the *Ottoman Empire, into the Jewish-Muslim community of the *Doenmeh. Jacob Frank was a proponent of an antinomian anarchist approach that rejected all the prohibitions and restrictions of Jewish law, including the laws of incest. This annulment was inspired by medieval mystical traditions that the foremost expression of the messianic future would be the establishment of a new code, “the era of mercy,” replacing the halakhah and the “era of harsh judgment.” Frank, who brought his family to Poland in December 1755, was charged by the Jewish community of Brody, Galicia, with instigating illicit practices. He was tried, imprisoned, and excommunicated along with his followers in June 1756.
     

    Originally named Rachel, after Jacob Frank’s mother, Rachel Herschel of Reischa, Eva is referred to in Frankist writings as the Lady, the Virgin, or Matronita, the Aramaic name of the mystical female entity Shekhinah. She became known as Eva following the conversion of her family to Christianity c. 1760. This conversion protected the Shabbatean group, which was being persecuted by Jewish communities in Galicia and Podolia for heretical views and unacceptable sexual behavior, and enabled the members to preserve their secret rituals based on messianism and anarchy in all aspects of life. The historian Peter *Beer knew Eva Frank and discussed the evolution of her names and her family’s conversion in his work on Jewish sects (1823).
     

    Jacob Frank’s autobiographical writings, preserved in Frankist circles, included a Polish text entitled “The Sayings of the Master.” This document set forth a mystical-mythical new reality in which Frank portrayed himself as a messianic figure, related to the biblical patriarch Jacob and associated with the kabbalistic entity of the divine male, Tiferet (divine glory). In this formulation, Frank’s consort is portrayed as the biblical matriarch Rachel and is also associated with the mystical entity of the divine female, Shekhinah. Frank’s wife Hannah, who was forced by her husband to play the public role of his mystical partner, the Matronita, died in great dismay at the beginning of 1770 when their daughter Eva was 16 years old.
     

    Frank did not allow his daughter to leave him or to marry, a prohibition he enforced on all his followers; they constituted a messianic community based on a communal sexual life with no incest restrictions or respect for marriage vows. He also demanded that Eva remain with him in prison when he was incarcerated between 1760 and 1772. Until his death in 1791, Eva played the roles of Rachel, the beloved of Jacob, and the Shekhinah-Matronita, the spouse of Tiferet-Ya’akov. Her father referred to his daughter with a citation from the Zohar describing the agonized Shekhinah who responds to her lover as “a beautiful maiden who has no eyes” (Zohar, Mishpatim).
     

    Jacob Frank saw himself as the eternal messiah and told his followers that Eva-Rachel should be recognized as the mystical royal figure of the Shekhinah who would lead them as a messianic redeemer while he was temporarily absent. Ultimately, Frank claimed, he would be reborn and united with his daughter in “the unity of Messiah and Shekhinah.” In the last decade of his life, Frank lived in Brno (Bruenn, then Austria) and in Offenbach in Germany with his daughter; he discussed Eva’s messianic nature in inner Frankist circles while spreading the rumor in public that she was an illegitimate child of the Russian Empress Catherine of the house of Romanov.
     

    In 1777 Frank took Eva to Vienna where both were received at the royal palace. In that year he had portraits of his daughter sent to Frankist communities in Hamburg and Altona together with pronouncements of her messianic nature. After Jacob Frank’s death in 1791, understood by his followers as a temporary disappearance, Eva led the Frankist court in Offenbach with her two younger brothers. In 1800 Eva sent letters to hundreds of Jewish communities encouraging conversion to Christianity and enlistment in the Frankist movement (see Brawer, Galicia, pp. 270–75). Her request for financial help was supported by quotations from her father’s teachings and promises of approaching messianic redemption. In 1803 the Offenbach court dismantled and the Frankists returned to Poland, where Eva conducted herself as a Romanov princess and lived as the Shabbatean-Frankist leader until her death in 1816.
     
    https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/frank-eva

    Replies: @Nodwink, @utu

    Sexual orgy was (perhaps still is in Turkey) practiced by Donmeh (Sabbatean Muslims). Children born from it are considered special.

    http://perspectives.ajsnet.org/transgression-issue/the-redemptive-power-of-sexual-anarchy/
    The most basic description of the festival, based on several historical and contemporary accounts, is as follows: on the night of 22 Adar (sometime in mid-March) the couples gather and perform a series of rituals in a ceremonial manner. The most important element of the meal at the dinner table is the seasonal lamb. Before that day, believers were supposed to refrain from eating mutton. The dinner is accompanied by songs, hymns, prayers, and drinks. At the end of the night, according to the most widely circulated rumors, the couples extinguish the lights and randomly swap partners. Babies who were conceived on that night were believed to be holy and would-be messiahs. Yitzhak Ben Zvi, an Israeli politician and historian who visited the Dönme communities several times in the first half of the twentieth century, noted: “The candles are put out in the course of the dinner which is attended by orgies and the ceremony of the exchange of wives.”

  92. Anonymous[214] • Disclaimer says:

    I’d say the basic problem with this “boring theory” is that making HUGE amounts of money is not possible via “sciency” skills. While various sciency sorts who otherwise might have done something more interesting got sucked into developing algorithms for finance, they themselves mostly didn’t strike it hugely rich. They were hired hands. To get hugely rich, you need inside info, and so you need the skills to get it.
    Epstein perhaps had the right combination of skills to get quite rich and to help others become and stay so… smart enough to hold a conversation with high level science geeks and pervy and amoral enough to engage with those seeking power above all else.
    Epstein actually strikes me as a reasonably smart guy, and not horribly twisted at heart, but suffering from an extreme lack of moral reflection, which gets exploited by some who are far more evil. The upshot is that he ends up as a horrible villain, which he could have forestalled by even TRYING to think. He’s to blame for sure, but more for his lack of thought. He liked massages from teenage girls, and simply refused to think about the moral corruption he was inducing. (And also about how he was likely being manipulated by others more powerful…)
    My current take, at least…

  93. “And anytime you might start to wonder — Is Jeffrey really just a pimp running a jailbait brothel? — ”

    Was beginning to have those doubts myself. Was he a scientist or just a not so common pimp?

    “then you can hush your doubts by telling yourself: Scientisty guys aren’t like that.”

    Oh, ok. After all, it’s hard to imagine Charles Darwin or Francis Galton as nineteenth century pimps for the Duke of Norfolk, much less the Prince of Wales, so that’s a good point to keep in mind.

    “It is Settled Science!”

    Whew, thank goodness for science setting things aright.

  94. @JohnnyWalker123
    @utu

    Right. It's a modern version of Traumnovelle, updated for late 90s NYC.

    Here are some thoughts on the film.

    -"Ziegler" is clearly Jewish. He's a rich socialite who presents a respectable face to NYC society, but is secretly running a huge prostitution ring that caters to the debauched tastes of elite locals. He seems to strongly believe in the Occult. Many of his friends are similar to him. His social circle seems to secretly exert an enormous amount of power, but is unknown to the general society.
    -Tom Cruise's character ("Dr. Bill") is a White Gentile doctor who rubs shoulders with "Ziegler" and his worldly rich friends, but is not quite at their level. "Dr. Bill" is in a subordinate role to them. He seems rather naive about women, sex, society, and all sorts of things. He's educated, but not worldly.
    -Nicole Kidman's character ("Alice") seems to be a former high-end escort who married well and is concealing her past. Due to her surface-level classiness, she can pass as respectable. The movie implies that even while being married to "Dr. Bill," she's fooling around on the side with powerful clients, being pampered by them in many ways. She's too addicted to their world of glamour, power, and drugs to ever really leave.
    -"Helena" (the couple's small daughter) is being brought up to value her beauty and money. It's strongly implied that she's being groomed to become a prostitute by her mother.
    -There's a scene in which an old man ("Lou Nathanson") dies, with his daughter calling "Dr. Bill" to come medically evaluate the man's corpse at his posh residence. She tries to initiate sex with "Dr. Bill" (near the corpse), with it being implied that she may have some necrophiliac fetish. It's vaguely implied that she may have killed her elderly father. The movie frequently portrays the intersection of death and sex as thrilling.
    -"Mr. Milich" is a Russian (likely of Jewish origin) who's secretly running a brothel that presents itself as a "costume" shop. His "costume" shop looks like a "Red Light" whorehouse.
    -The prostitute "Domino" has some similarities to "Dr. Bill's" small daughter. It's implied that the daughter will grow up to become like this prostitute.
    -Throughout the movie, there's a theme of the wealthy (like "Ziegler" and "Dr. Bill") using their affluence and power to exploit the working class, especially in sexual matters.
    -Christmas lights are literally everywhere, except the debaucherous party at the Somerton mansion. I suppose it's implied that the outside world is full of comforting illusions of peace, safety, prosperity, and joy (represented by Christmas lights). The real world (which is revealed at Somerton mansion) is far more dire and frightening. Human beings live with their illusions, with only a powerful and select few understanding the nature of the world around them.
    -The Star of Ishtar (a Sumerian deity around whom a cult of ritualized temple prostitution was built) is everywhere in the "Ziegler" mansion. Temple monuments seem to be evident at the Somerton house and "Dr. Bill's" home too. It's implied that "Alice" (the wife) is some type of ritual prostitute.
    -The Occult rituals and orgy at Somerton (which was once owned by the Rothschilds many years before the film was created) are clearly based on the real-life 1972 Rothschild "Illuminati Ball," with even the costumes being similar. Pedophilia isn't shown, but very strongly implied.
    -The prostitute "Mandy" turns on "Ziegler's" powerful sex trafficking ring to save "Dr. Bill" (who earlier saved her). After she's injected with a lethal cocktail of drugs, her death is disguised as an overdose. It's also revealed she was the "girlfriend" of fashion designer Leon Vitali (who's the Satanic priest that leads the rituals at Somerton). I suppose this was Kubrick's way of telling us the true nature of the "glamorous" fashion industry, which is really just a prostitution ring. It's also his way of telling us that many mysterious deaths of prominent people (especially overdoses) are concealed murders.
    -The fascination of the elite with the Occult is constantly portrayed throughout the film.
    -If you look at how the movie ends, "Dr. Bill" comes to realize the truly dark nature of the people who rule the society around him. He realizes his previous life was the comforting dream of a blissfully ignorant man. He realizes that the reality of the world is sinister and bleak, but only an awakened few understand this.
    -When the movie ends, "Dr. Bill's" daughter is kidnapped by "Ziegler's" goons, with it being implied that they'll molest her and force her to become a child sex slave. It's also implied that "Dr. Bill" and his wife "Alice" are allowing this to happen, under duress from "Ziegler."

    Kubrick created this film not just to bring Traumnovelle to life again, but to "Red Pill" the masses about the world around them. The point of the film is that most people have their "eyes wide shut" to the macabre nature of the world around them.

    Replies: @Not Only Wrathful, @syonredux, @HA

    Your analysis of the film is good. The world portrayed is a shadow world. It is dreamlike and effervescent.

    This makes sense because it feels deeper and truer than the nice stuff on the surface. The film is an exploration of the unconscious, and this is why it is so powerful and popular. Were it merely a documentary disguised as entertainment, it’d be far less magnetic.

    Since you’re so drawn to it, what you see is a projection of you, especially that which you bury far below the surface.

    I love the film!

    Nonetheless, you’ve jumped into nonsense by thinking it is a direct portrayal of current events. This is what crazy people often do. They take their dreams/nightmares and externalise them, rather than facing them. It is the first step into paranoid schizophrenia. Or bizarre fanatical politics.

  95. @DextersLabRat
    @JohnnyWalker123

    I have no doubt everyone involved with this is evil and in a sane society would be getting publicly guillotine'd, but what exactly is a sex slave supposed to be in this scenario? Is someone holding a gun to this girl's head just outside of the camera frame? Or by "sex slave" was she just a prostitute who then got cold feet? Because from what I've read on her Wikipedia she was sent to Thailand to bring over another hooker, and then said "sorry I'm out, bye" and then went to live her life just fine for many years. That doesn't sound like a sex slave to me.

    Replies: @Pericles, @Alden

    Public service announcement: You’re not allowed to bang the jailbait, not even if they are filthy shiksas. Not if you pay money for it either, or if it’s at a private party arranged by your smooth jewish friend.

    Epstein is in one sense just part of a long tradition of middle eastern pimps luring dumb white girls into prostitution, but of course keeping the proceeds for himself. He would have been right at home with the pakis at the taxi stand in Rotherham or many other British towns. “But your honor, they were just working class sluts!”

    • Replies: @Gordo
    @Pericles


    Public service announcement: You’re not allowed to bang the jailbait, not even if they are filthy shiksas. Not if you pay money for it either, or if it’s at a private party arranged by your smooth jewish friend.

    Epstein is in one sense just part of a long tradition of middle eastern pimps luring dumb white girls into prostitution, but of course keeping the proceeds for himself. He would have been right at home with the pakis at the taxi stand in Rotherham or many other British towns. “But your honor, they were just working class sluts!”
     
    British politicians and media and police make a big thing about racially motivated hate crimes and enhanced prison sentences for racially motivated offenders.

    But only one way. Ever.
  96. @anon
    @JohnnyWalker123

    How to trust Virginia Giuffre is telling the truth? Are prostitutes generally renowned for truthfulness?

    Is Stormy Daniels truthful? Is Karen McDougal?

    Replies: @Peripatetic Commenter, @Pericles

    Well, why not try it in court? There is that pesky photo of course, and hanging around the convicted child molester Epstein, but who knows what a good lawyer (not to mention a good judge) can let you get away with.

  97. @Steve Sailer
    @Altai

    Love?

    Leslie Wexner, like Sir Roderick Spode, the Fascist leader in Bertie and Jeeves novels, is a ladies' lingerie genius. Epstein was an extremely high testosterone guy with thick dark hair on the back of hands.

    Replies: @Altai, @Not Only Wrathful

    Epstein was everything Wexner couldn’t let himself be. This results in the type of attraction that has a tremendous and obsessive hold on people.

  98. @utu
    @Steve Sailer

    From an Oxford scientist who fled to Argentina, a 'failed' actress branded 'ugly' by her father, to Britain's biggest ever bankrupt and the 'fireball' twins who made the Sunday Times Rich List... What became of Robert Maxwell's nine children?
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8486817/What-Robert-Maxwells-nine-children.html

    Replies: @Pericles

    Buenos Aires is something of a secret jewish hideout, isn’t it?

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Pericles

    Argentina has a lot of jews. You will find many in Miami, as well as the Venezuelan jews, some able to fly back and forth. In fact, lots of Latin American Jews flock to Miami and pretend to be “Chilean” or whatever.

    My guess is there’s plenty of transnational money launderers, who can socialize with “Chicagoans” and “New Yorkers” and even “Parisians”.

  99. A boring theory is that he wasn’t prosecuted for much of anything in 2007 because law enforcement hadn’t developed the evidence the local prosecutors could use (the federal prosecutor in the case comes off as a man of weak character who is a stranger to any sort of diligence). Another boring theory is that the young women involved were basically groupies who weren’t coerced at all, legal in some jurisdictions and not in others. They’re being used by ambulance chasers looking for a payday; some of them are mercenary themselves while others are exhibiting the charming feminine tic of vehemently denying any sort of personal agency for the rancid things they’ve done in their lives. I would put money on the proposition that most of these women could be successfully impeached by competent defense counsel.

    Where it’s more challenging to come up with boring theories is in crafting an explanation for his ‘suicide’ or for where he came by all that money.

  100. @Mr. Anon
    OT: As part of the ongoing project of removing all the confederate war memorials in the city of Richmond (which was, lest one forget, the capital of the Confederacy), city workers today removed the statue of Confederate naval officer (formerly American naval officer) Matthew Fontaine Maury.

    Maury was a reluctant Confederate, having opposed succession. More importantly, Maury wasn't just a naval officer, he was a scientist, and one of the founding fathers of meteorology and oceanography.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Fontaine_Maury

    Congratulations, cultural vandals. You've cancelled a better man than you'll ever be.

    Replies: @Jim Christian

    As has been the case with all of them.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Jim Christian


    As has been the case with all of them.
     
    Yes. Indeed.
  101. @Ari Silver
    Epstein is a Mossad agent who blackmails prominent goys.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Kratoklastes

    Was.

  102. anonymous[267] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ian Smith
    If you’re trying to calm accusations and conspiracy theorizing, name dropping a Rothschild is a bad way to go about it. Yeesh, who would have thought that Alan Dershowitz was so shameless!

    Replies: @Bubba, @Sam Malone, @anonymous, @Testing12

    name dropping a Rothschild is a bad way to go about it.

    Think this is what is increasingly referred to by the J-Woke as a FLEX.

    Yes this is bare naked chutzpah so obvious that it screams to be pointed out or even mocked. But point is that Jews are counting on you won’t because doing so would mean having the entire Jewish power structure come down on you with their most controlled goyim deep state button men ie the Clintons out in front leading the way.

    Jews have created a media environment where a goyim even mentioning a Rothschild in any unfavorable light means they can destroy you as a insane neo-nazi mouth breathing conspiracy theorist.

    Congressman Adam Schiff can appear with his kid in a Mossad tee-shirt on social media and the only folks who will mention it are David Duke, Stormfront and Unz,

    Tells you something!!!

    • Agree: Gordo
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @anonymous

    There are, IIRC, two sets of Rothschild firms, one controlled by one set of cousins and another by a different one. The assets of the larger set were around $17 bn the last time I checked. That would be on the order of the largest local bank in a 2d tier city. Why are they of interest?

  103. @Bugg
    @Stebbing Heuer

    Epstein goes from a quant guy with Bear Stearns to super rich.Or the facade of rich. Supposedly he ran a hedge fund and you have the Les Wexner thing and a Ponzi scam, but really there's a huge hole there that is unexplained. There are a lot of very talented Wall Street guys, but none of them have a career trajectory like that. And if they were so brilliant, they keep moving. He is not Steve Cohen. Unless somebody, like, say, Ehud Barak and the Mossad figured out Epstein was in a very good spot to get incriminating video on American politicians and businessmen, and therefore, to make them inclined to be well disposed to the state of Israel. And who better than a shameless outer borough Jew who liked banging young chicks. Nothing else makes any sense.

    Replies: @Stebbing Heuer

    ‘Sactly.

  104. @JohnnyWalker123
    @syonredux

    Yes.

    In Kubrick’s film "Eyes Wide Shut," there’s a costume party in which Occult/Satanic rituals are performed. At the party, the Romanian Orthodox liturgy is played backwards (doing Christian prayers backwards is a common practice of Satanic worshippers). The film rituals were actually filmed at the real-life Rothschild “Mentmore Tower” mansion (the Rothschilds sold the mansion many years before the film was produced). The party costumes are very similar to those from the real-life 1972 Rothschild party.

    In Kubrick's film, the Rothschild family crest is even featured on the throne of the Satanic priest (who’s leading the rituals). See below.

    https://twitter.com/NFrechen/status/1150120072691769344

    There’s an important character in the film (who’s apart of the Occult/Satanic rituals) whose last name is “Windsor.” Interestingly, Epstein is good friends with British Prince Andrew and is quite close to the British royal family (the House of Windsor). A coincidence, I’m sure…..

    This Youtube video explores more of the similarities between Kubrick’s film and the 1972 Rothchild party.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoMlXey70XE

    Newsweek commented on the similarities between "Eyes Wide Shut" and the Epstein prostitution ring.

    https://www.newsweek.com/eyes-wide-shut-missing-footage-epstein-kubrick-death-1449108


    In 'Eyes Wide Shut' Stanley Kubrick Captured Horrors of Jeffrey Epstein Era

     

    There were pictures taken during a law enforcement raid on Epstein's mansion. In one of the pictures, you can see the floor pattern of Epstein's home. This floor pattern is exactly the same as the pattern from Ziegler's mansion. See below.

    https://imgur.com/DL1b6i9

    Who's Ziegler? In the film "Eyes Wide Shut," Ziegler is a wealthy Jewish socialite from NYC. While he appears respectable and normal, he's secretly running a prostitution ring that caters to the elite of local society. He hosts debauched orgies (with Occult rituals) in which prostitutes are abused. Basically the same as Epstein.

    Interestingly, Ziegler wears a devil's tail, which he keeps concealed inside his pants. During a scene with a prostitute in a bathroom, Ziegler's devil tail falls out of his pants.

    Here are some other scary pictures taken inside Epstein's mansion. Notice the red light. Notice the red pitchfork on a model of Epstein's plane. Red pitchfork.

    https://imgur.com/GijJ31M

    By the way, throughout "Eyes Wide Shut," the color red is constantly displayed. Especially during the Satanic/Occult sex rituals.

    During the ending of the film, the daughter of the main characters is kidnapped by Ziegler's sex trafficking ring, with strong hints that she'll be molested and forced to become a child prostitute. See below.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pp4WDG37iU

    Throughout the film, the Star of Ishtar is displayed. So are relics of ancient temples, especially inside people's homes and during the Satanic/Occult ritual scenes.

    https://i0.wp.com/moviesupclose.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/vlcsnap-2013-05-30-14h36m58s109.png

    Who is Ishtar? She's a Sumerian deity. There was a cult of sacred temple prostitution built around her.

    TLDR Summary:

    -Stanley Kubrick's film "Eyes Wide Shut" offers a glimpse into a world of elite prostitution, debauchery, blackmail, murder, and the Occult.
    -There are STRONG similarities between the film and the 1972 Occult Rothschild party.
    -The Rothschilds are good friend of Epstein, even introducing Maxwell to Alan Dershowitz.
    -"Eyes Wide Shut" has many bizarre similarities to the world of Jeffrey Epstein.

    Replies: @Bugg, @utu, @tyrone, @Ozymandias

    Hey, didn’t Kubrick die right after he finished that movie……of course there was nothing suspicious about that ……..just a little spicious. Question: are we doing a dead pool on Ghislaine?

  105. @Anon
    @ “.. to be, at heart, a fellow who loves science most of all, but who got detoured off his natural career path by his knack for making vast amounts of money for his investors? “

    Like Eric Weinstein, you mean?

    Though this idea was only a filler, my take is that talking math and IQ is a way of intimidating an audience. They’ll turn it off when someone higher in the pecking order is holding court.

    Replies: @Curious George

    Eric Weinstein is himself a frustrated would-be physicist. His inability to make a career in math/physics drives his critique of contemporary society.

    On a recent podcast/interview with Rebel Wisdom (first half of 2020, I think), Weinstein discusses Epstein, whom he met once or twice. He says Epstein was not like any other hedge fund/finance guy he had ever met. He exuded no special intelligence or drive, let alone charm, and that raised Weinstein’s suspicions. So Weinstein’s testimony contradicts Steve’s theory proposed above.

    • Replies: @Sean
    @Curious George

    Epstein presented himself as an expert at hiding money (for tax evasion purposes obviously) not a master financier or investment manager. He found his dream mark in Wexner who naively granted Epstein a power of attorney over the Wexner empire, whereupon Epstein proceeded to steal hundreds of millions from Wexner. That required being glib and not much more.

    Mathematical Biologist Martin Nowak (a German Catholic) talked about Epstein in a book (Supercooperators) before all this came out and he said Epstein was familiar with the ideas and a very generous donator to establish a institute at Harvard. Ironically, Nowak's theories revolve around the benefits of being known for altruism. I think that is why Epstein donated, he was wanting the benefits of a reputation for being a philanthropist. If you are embezzling money, giving a little of it away is a smart move, ask Bernie Madoff.

    In Federal jail Epstein was assigned a Jewish escort agency owner in for tax evasion as an anti suicide buddy. This fellow said he did not get the impression that Epstein was particularly intelligent and very interestingly that Epstein asked all kinds of questions about the escort business such as whether the hookers were beautiful and what they were paid. He also said Epstein was scared of all the other Pretty boring him being just a ChoMo and fraudster

  106. @Pericles
    @DextersLabRat

    Public service announcement: You're not allowed to bang the jailbait, not even if they are filthy shiksas. Not if you pay money for it either, or if it's at a private party arranged by your smooth jewish friend.

    Epstein is in one sense just part of a long tradition of middle eastern pimps luring dumb white girls into prostitution, but of course keeping the proceeds for himself. He would have been right at home with the pakis at the taxi stand in Rotherham or many other British towns. "But your honor, they were just working class sluts!"

    Replies: @Gordo

    Public service announcement: You’re not allowed to bang the jailbait, not even if they are filthy shiksas. Not if you pay money for it either, or if it’s at a private party arranged by your smooth jewish friend.

    Epstein is in one sense just part of a long tradition of middle eastern pimps luring dumb white girls into prostitution, but of course keeping the proceeds for himself. He would have been right at home with the pakis at the taxi stand in Rotherham or many other British towns. “But your honor, they were just working class sluts!”

    British politicians and media and police make a big thing about racially motivated hate crimes and enhanced prison sentences for racially motivated offenders.

    But only one way. Ever.

  107. @Sam Malone
    @Bugg

    You and Johnny Walker are both correct that Kubrik when making at least several of his films clearly went to painstaking lengths to fill them with intricately encoded hidden messages and deeper meanings.

    I highly recommend checking out the exceptionally intelligent, thoughtful and detailed film analysis on "2001 A Space Odyssey" by a guy on YouTube named Rob Ager. He has one channel under that name and another called 'Collative Learning'.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    I highly recommend checking out the exceptionally intelligent, thoughtful and detailed film analysis on “2001 A Space Odyssey” by a guy on YouTube named Rob Ager. He has one channel under that name and another called ‘Collative Learning’.

    Because the movie itself was soporific.

  108. @JohnnyWalker123
    @syonredux

    Yes.

    In Kubrick’s film "Eyes Wide Shut," there’s a costume party in which Occult/Satanic rituals are performed. At the party, the Romanian Orthodox liturgy is played backwards (doing Christian prayers backwards is a common practice of Satanic worshippers). The film rituals were actually filmed at the real-life Rothschild “Mentmore Tower” mansion (the Rothschilds sold the mansion many years before the film was produced). The party costumes are very similar to those from the real-life 1972 Rothschild party.

    In Kubrick's film, the Rothschild family crest is even featured on the throne of the Satanic priest (who’s leading the rituals). See below.

    https://twitter.com/NFrechen/status/1150120072691769344

    There’s an important character in the film (who’s apart of the Occult/Satanic rituals) whose last name is “Windsor.” Interestingly, Epstein is good friends with British Prince Andrew and is quite close to the British royal family (the House of Windsor). A coincidence, I’m sure…..

    This Youtube video explores more of the similarities between Kubrick’s film and the 1972 Rothchild party.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoMlXey70XE

    Newsweek commented on the similarities between "Eyes Wide Shut" and the Epstein prostitution ring.

    https://www.newsweek.com/eyes-wide-shut-missing-footage-epstein-kubrick-death-1449108


    In 'Eyes Wide Shut' Stanley Kubrick Captured Horrors of Jeffrey Epstein Era

     

    There were pictures taken during a law enforcement raid on Epstein's mansion. In one of the pictures, you can see the floor pattern of Epstein's home. This floor pattern is exactly the same as the pattern from Ziegler's mansion. See below.

    https://imgur.com/DL1b6i9

    Who's Ziegler? In the film "Eyes Wide Shut," Ziegler is a wealthy Jewish socialite from NYC. While he appears respectable and normal, he's secretly running a prostitution ring that caters to the elite of local society. He hosts debauched orgies (with Occult rituals) in which prostitutes are abused. Basically the same as Epstein.

    Interestingly, Ziegler wears a devil's tail, which he keeps concealed inside his pants. During a scene with a prostitute in a bathroom, Ziegler's devil tail falls out of his pants.

    Here are some other scary pictures taken inside Epstein's mansion. Notice the red light. Notice the red pitchfork on a model of Epstein's plane. Red pitchfork.

    https://imgur.com/GijJ31M

    By the way, throughout "Eyes Wide Shut," the color red is constantly displayed. Especially during the Satanic/Occult sex rituals.

    During the ending of the film, the daughter of the main characters is kidnapped by Ziegler's sex trafficking ring, with strong hints that she'll be molested and forced to become a child prostitute. See below.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pp4WDG37iU

    Throughout the film, the Star of Ishtar is displayed. So are relics of ancient temples, especially inside people's homes and during the Satanic/Occult ritual scenes.

    https://i0.wp.com/moviesupclose.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/vlcsnap-2013-05-30-14h36m58s109.png

    Who is Ishtar? She's a Sumerian deity. There was a cult of sacred temple prostitution built around her.

    TLDR Summary:

    -Stanley Kubrick's film "Eyes Wide Shut" offers a glimpse into a world of elite prostitution, debauchery, blackmail, murder, and the Occult.
    -There are STRONG similarities between the film and the 1972 Occult Rothschild party.
    -The Rothschilds are good friend of Epstein, even introducing Maxwell to Alan Dershowitz.
    -"Eyes Wide Shut" has many bizarre similarities to the world of Jeffrey Epstein.

    Replies: @Bugg, @utu, @tyrone, @Ozymandias

    In one of the pictures, you can see the floor pattern of Epstein’s home. This floor pattern is exactly the same as the pattern from Ziegler’s mansion

    The black and White checkerboard pattern is in tens of millions of homes. It’s in my bathroom right now. Offering this as proof of satanic association is a big hit to the credibility of your theory.

    • Agree: Alden
  109. A boring theory, that has no connection to the facts:

    But Jeffrey didn’t know anything about science. Nevertheless, in his peculiarly inquiring mind, let’s say, like a child who is fresh to the world—because he has no compunction about approaching people—he brought together the most important scientists like Stephen Gould, like Pinker, like all of those people, and myself even, at dinners, and would propose interesting, naive ideas. Steve Pinker describes that. He would say, “Oh, what is gravity?” Which of course is an unanswerable thing to present at a dinner to a bunch of scientists. And because he was Jeffrey, why, they would—and as the founder of the feast—they would listen to him and try to give [answers]. He was attempting, somehow, in his ignorant and scientifically naive state, to do something scientifically important. He had no compunctions about inviting people, and since he had money, they would listen. He would promise money to people and, of course, never come across, by the way. That’s what’s called a dangler. Didn’t he promise $15 million to Harvard? I don’t know if they got two cents.

    So people would come to his dinners, including myself. I even had them. Take a look at Steven Pinker’s essay. Jeffrey brought these people together and thought that he was causing basic thought processes to happen, which he sort of was, even though they were sort of irrelevant. I mean, to bring together a bunch of scientists and say, what is gravity? Which is ridiculous in a way, even though it’s a question nobody can answer. But he would do that kind of stuff. Just for the sake of, I don’t know what. And Jaron Lanier and all that group, the greatest thinkers that they were, he brought together with a purpose of thinking, rightfully or wrongfully, that he was going to introduce some kind of logic or something—some special kind of a thought process, which others hadn’t thought of, which of course is absurd.

    While everybody was watching, we began to realize he didn’t know what he was talking about. Then after a couple of minutes—Jeffrey had no attention span whatsoever—he would interrupt the conversation and change it and say things like, “What does that got to do with pussy?!”

    Really?

    That was his favorite expression. It was a subject changer. And it revealed what was really in his mind. Of course, that was the only thing that was going on in his mind. The poor guy had—it’s hard to, you can’t describe Jeffrey. And because he had dough, he was able to realize the weirdest situations, which he would convoke by bringing brilliant people together and proposing silly ideas at dinner, and everyone would listen because he was handing out dough. And it was an indescribable situation—trying to create some kind of a mini university of thought while he himself knew zero.

    You said he brought up these crazy ideas. Can you remember any of his own ideas?

    He would propose the fundamental questions of science. What’s up? And what’s down? And what’s gravity?

    My guess is that his Mossad handler had the brilliant idea of getting into a bunch of brand-name scientists’ orbit then using that connection as bait to get to guys like Gates, ie tech billionaires who have a hard-on for science and want to fund the right scientists. It seems to have worked- witness the Gates donation to Harvard brokered through Epstein- but Epstein is the unlikeliest of outer borough dum-dums to pull it off.

    I guess if you put enough Wexner millions in the moron’s bank account, anything is possible.

    • Thanks: utu
  110. Russ says:
    @Anonymous
    OT, but WOW -- YouTube is silently autodeleting my comments if they pass some threshold of race content. I tried to post this comment on the recent Karen video

    This is a perfect example of black privilege in action. No white guy would ever be able to get away with this level of harassment over something as trivial as being flipped off, but blacks feel entitled to levels of respect and deference that white people can never hope for. Because slavery...
     
    This is a perfectly reasonable comment; no crude language or anything. It appeared to display normally when I posted it, but when I refreshed a couple of seconds later the comment had disappeared! I opened the video in a different browser (which wasn't logged into YouTube) and couldn't see it there either. I've run some experiments, and it appears that the last two sentences (No white guy ... Because slavery...) are what do it. It's repeatable -- I tried it three times. Each individual sentence alone passes muster, but the last two together don't.

    Could somebody else give this a try and see what happens? Has anyone else seen anything like this?

    Replies: @Russ

    Could somebody else give this a try and see what happens? Has anyone else seen anything like this?

    Any time I try to quote Lyndon Johnson on how passing the Voting/Civil Rights Act would get “them eggplant” voting Democrat for the next 200 years, the comment never gets published — and that’s on this very iSteve site. So your experience with YouTube does not surprise me at all. In my case, I’ve yet to find an acceptable proxy to the six-letter quasi-pejorative beginning with the 14th letter. Perhaps this comment won’t air either. Pity; after all, it was LBJ who said it.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Russ

    Well, sure, but I didn't use any "eggplant" language (which I don't blame Steve for censoring), and I was able to post each of the three sentences by itself. This suggests that rather than a simple unsophisticated filtering of objectionable words, YouTube is training an AI to filter out objectionable content, which is much worse. It could eventually be an automated equivalent of the millions of people the Chinese government employs to censor social media, except that some of the censors end up getting red-pilled, which will never happen with an AI. How far behind can a social credit score be?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  111. @Nathan
    Well, because math and science literate people are precisely the people who should have seen through Epstein's bullshit first. This is the guy who claimed, in 1981 when he founded his own hedge fund, that he only worked with clients who had an income of over 1 million a year. The problem is that nobody made that kind of money at the time. Even professional athletes and Hollywood actors weren't earning that kind of money. Nolan Ryan seems to be the only million dollar a year athlete in 1981. For actors, only Larry Hagman's epic 100,000 an episode contract for Dallas would have made him a reliable million dollar a year earner. And that's about it. CEO and banking pay wasn't so astronomical at the time. Epstein' s lies should have been obvious from the very beginning. His later claims that he only worked with billionaire clients should have been laughed at. There are only 2,000 billionaires in the world. If you have a billion dollars, what on earth do you need a financial advisor for? You've already got a billion dollars, obviously you must be doing something right.

    There's also little evidence that Epstein ever made any returns for his investors. And by investors, I mean Leslie Wexner. Epstein likely took Wexner for a few million and used the money to fund his tacky lifestyle.

    Hopefully they squeeze Ghislaine and she squeals like a stuck pig. Hopefully they get medieval on her ass. Hopefully there's some explanation other than being a shitty person is the fastest way to the top in life.

    Replies: @Alden

    There have been many interviews with investment and hedge fund managers who claim they never heard of Epstein’s fund. Of course they were in NYC offices glued to their computers while Jeffrey was flying between Florida, Europe and his Island.

    • Replies: @Nathan
    @Alden

    That tends to support the idea that he wasn't doing what he claimed. Hedge fund managers should know who the other big players are. Who are they trading and hedging with/against?

  112. @DextersLabRat
    @JohnnyWalker123

    I have no doubt everyone involved with this is evil and in a sane society would be getting publicly guillotine'd, but what exactly is a sex slave supposed to be in this scenario? Is someone holding a gun to this girl's head just outside of the camera frame? Or by "sex slave" was she just a prostitute who then got cold feet? Because from what I've read on her Wikipedia she was sent to Thailand to bring over another hooker, and then said "sorry I'm out, bye" and then went to live her life just fine for many years. That doesn't sound like a sex slave to me.

    Replies: @Pericles, @Alden

    The sex slavery as she called it, was before she escaped by going to Thailand and then Australia. She decided she had to leave when Epstein and Maxwell told her the next job would be to have a baby and give it to Maxwell and Epstein for some nefarious purpose.

    Neither Maxwell nor Epstein have known children. Interesting.

  113. Russ says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    @Bugg

    In the movie "Eyes Wide Shut," Tom Cruise's character ("Dr. Bill") is portrayed as a married straight male. However, despite this, a group of youths engage in a bizarre "gay bashing" of him. There's another scene in which a gay male aggressively flirts with "Dr. Bill."

    Why is this interesting?

    For years, there have been all sorts of rumors about Tom Cruise's sexuality. Supposedly, he's a gay man who's pretending to be straight. It's almost like Kubrick was poking fun at Tom Cruise....

    In the movie, Nicole Kidman's character plays a mother who seems to be grooming her small daughter to become a child prostitute.

    Why is this interesting?

    Her father Anthony Kidman was arrested for being apart of a trafficking ring that groomed young children into prostitution. Shortly after being placed under investigation, he died suddenly. See below.

    https://independentaustralia.net/life/life-display/antony-kidman-dies-amidst-child-abuse-allegations,6918


    Antony Kidman dies amidst child abuse allegations

     


    at the time of his death, Kidman was under investigation by the NSW Health Care Complaints Commission (HCCC), the Psychology Council of NSW and, presumably, the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Abuse, as well as the police.
     

    Kidman’s involvement in a Sydney based paedophile ring
     
    It seems like Stanley Kubrick was subtly trying to say some very interesting things...

    Replies: @Russ

    It seems like Stanley Kubrick was subtly trying to say some very interesting things…

    Well, the Cruise-Kidman marriage certainly dissolved soon after the film’s release. As for Cruise: Earlier wife Mimi Rogers (whose, uh, acting in “Full Body Massage” is unexcelled) reportedly exulted in giving birth to her next man’s baby in such manner so as to tweak Cruise, so there is also that angle; has Cruise no natural children of his own? Scientology is also involved … hardly surprisingly.

  114. @Harry Baldwin
    @Jim Don Bob

    2) She is not that good looking.

    There has never been a picture of an attractive woman on iSteve about which someone did not feel it necessary to comment, "She's not that good looking."

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Alden

    The MEN OF UNZ have incredibly high standards of beauty.

    Virginia is , was a very pretty woman and girl. She was much prettier 50 pounds less in that picture than she is now.

    That picture with Andrew is the epitome of standard N European beauty. Big eyes, good features, great smile, slim , natural blondey light brown hair.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Alden

    She's pleasant looking in that photo, not the 'epitome' of anything. As for her more recent appearances, someone needs to tell her to quit coloring her hair and get it properly cut.

    Replies: @Alden

    , @Anonymous
    @Alden

    Steve mentioned Monica Bellucci. You can google pictures of a young Monica Bellucci. Virginia is attractive, but she's obviously not model caliber like Bellucci was. Virginia has a girl next door look to her, not knockout model like Bellucci.

    Just being young and not overweight goes very far in terms of female attractiveness to older men. That coupled with being fairly attractive with a girl next door look would've been very appealing to Prince Andrew and older male dignitaries. But Virginia is only in her 30s now and has hit the wall hard. The fact that she looks so bad now shows that it was mostly youth going for her. That's why they say you can't really tell if a woman is/was truly beautiful until she's 40 and the mirage of youth has faded. Bellucci is decades older than Virginia and is truly beautiful compared to her.

  115. @Anon
    Here are some problems I see with the more outlandish Epstein theories:

    -- Underaged girls. The girls in question seem to have been over the age of consent from the beginning in the case of all substatiated testimony by named, identifiable “survivors.” This may gobsmack you since nobody seems to be pointing it out, but read closely claims to the contrary and track back the evidence. For instance, you find an anonymous "survivor" who supposedly said she saw another girl who looked 14, stuff like that.

    -- Story that Epstein never traded stocks. I traced this back to a piece I believe in Vanity Fair, where the journalist asked a couple of unidentified friends holding down undescribed jobs made that comment. Why would a couple of guys in the financial industry know whether Epstein was trading or not? Yet this claim has appeared all over the place as though it came from a reliable person who would have that information.

    -- Today in the NY Post: A crazy anti-Epstein column, containing no factual allegations other than: a "survivor" in a NetFlix doc pointed to holes in the exterior of Epstein's NY digs and said they were for cameras and the place was full of secret cameras that Epstein monitored from a secret room. That is a factual allegation which can be proven or disproven. Let's hope we hear the results of that. But until then:

    o The "Trial of Jesus" problem in textual analysis: Claims made by someone not in a postition to know (vd. above re stock trading) are unreliable. Why would a young survivor know about a secret video system and room?

    o Why would an exterior surveillance system use secret cameras? Or if the holes were just screws for a normal exterior security camera, why are they evidence of an interior secret surveillance system? The nature of the holes should be able to be determined by any passerby with a stepladder.

    o Who installed the system? Do staff or neighbors remember such a construction project? Were staff given a vacation and told to stay away from the house for awhile? Which room was the monitoring room? There should be a lot of evidence remaining that cables, cameras, and mic's were there. A lot of people could be questioned about this.

    o Where are the videos? Has anyone claimed to have seen video? Has anyone claimed to have witnessed a burning of videoss?

    All claims just kind of peter off into flaky sourcing (anonymous survivors, survivors with no specific knowledge), or turn into non-crimes (survivors who were adults, took money, and wished they had gone to college instead and not thrown away their youth as bimbos to sugardaddies).

    Replies: @Alden, @Alden

    He recruited the Florida girls from the high schools, that’s underage. In fact, the first 2 girls who attracted the attention of law enforcement were 14. Prostitution and pimping of women and men of any age is against the law. The girls gave sex in exchange for money. Epstein gave them money. That’s prostitution whether age 12, 20 or 40.

    The defenders of Maxwell and Epstein on this site keep trying to twist the discussion into age of consent, not prostitution.

    Anyone who’s ever worked in law enforcement or studied prostitution knows that there’s a constant process of recruitment. Black street pimps call their men recruiters henchmen.

    Teen prostitutes require more intensive recruitment efforts than young adults for various reasons. First they’re under standard teen restrictions whether they live at home or in group homes for delinquents. It’s not easy for them to be working as hookers at night. Second, teen girls often become prostitutes when Prince Charming recruits them, find they don’t like it and run away right back home.

    Whether it’s skanky retarded street hookers or very expensive escort agencies recruitment and retain ment is a major part of the prostitution business. Adult women answer escort agency ads voluntarily. But the escort women are under constant pressure to recruit others. An escort agency that the customers pay but doesn’t give the prostitutes their share doesn’t last long . High school girls have to be recruited.

    And as the Palm Beach police chief always said
    “ It’s not the typical he said she said thing. It’s one he and 300 shes and all the shes tell the same story”.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Anon
    @Alden


    He recruited the Florida girls from the high schools, that’s underage.
     
    Please cite some solid source for this. I’ve run down too many of these rabbit holes that are dead ends.

    “He recruited ... from high schools.” What does that even mean? Job fairs? Standing outside campuses? Seniors are 17 or 18 anyway. 18 is age of consent in many states.

    Here’s something that might have happened: A current adult girl introduces a 17 year old. Epstein keeps in touch with her until she’s older. Epstein gives her a job. Epstein pays her well for the job. In addition she has sex with men who she meets via Epstein. They pay her money as a sugerdaddy. If a prosecutor wants to find something illegal here I’m sure he could.

    I read a report where the journalist could have chosen any “Epstein survivor” she wanted to. She chose to focus on a girl who was (barely) an adult when she met Epstein, who was given jobs doing stuff on a computer, and who returned of her own volution over and over again because she wanted money. She slept with guys because she wanted more money. She was angre and regretted it later because she had decided that she wished she had gone to college and been able to start some sort of career. Would college have made a difference for her? She didn’t sound that smart in the article, but who knows. Now she’s going around peddling her Epstein stories, which are relatively well documented, but weirdly non scandalous. If there is a 14 year old, if it were me as the journalist, I would have chosen to profile her instead. The fact that these former 14 year olds never seem to materialize in reports with a face and a name is suspicious to me. And now you, Mr. Alden, show up and proclaim in a comment thread, “He recruited the Florida girls from the high schools, that’s underage. In fact, the first 2 girls who attracted the attention of law enforcement were 14” with no citation to court documents (every court document in Florida is online) or a rigourously and skeptically reported piece of journalistm ... what am I supposed to do?

    =====

    Re my second point about Epstein never trading: Matt Taibbi is a top-notch, skeptical journalist. If only he would research this story. That’s what Joe Rogan said when Taibbi was on his show. Yet after explicitly citing and quoting from the infamous Vanity Fair piece on Epstein, which I identified as the patient zero source of all “My buds in NY finance told me Epstein never traded” memes, he (Taibbi) says at 06:38 “I have friends on Wall Street who told me, 'I’ve never heard a single instance of this guy actually having a trade.’"

    https://youtu.be/2GJaLAIM1Ho?t=405

    “Friends on Wall Street”? Why would they be in a position to know? Are they friends, or friends of friends? Is “I” I or a friend? Taibbi admits to having read the VF piece. I’m sure his Wall Street friends did also. Are his friends passing on what they (and he) read as first hand information”? Or did they quote it and Taibbi unconsciously did the urban legend FOAF move and move up the attribution one or two links in the chain? And again, who on Wall Street would even know other than specific people in the specific firm that Epstein used? How can anyone proclaim a negative, “I’ve never heard ...”? Let’s say Taibbi said, "I know someone at a firm that executed some trades for Epstein, and he traded very infrequently and in amounts that seem very small for his rumored wealth. I don’t know if he also used other firms.” That has some meat and credibility to it. That’s not what he said though. So if a sharp investigative journalist can occasionally fall into this kind of crap rumormongering, the typical journalist and web writer are much more susceptible.
  116. @Ian Smith
    If you’re trying to calm accusations and conspiracy theorizing, name dropping a Rothschild is a bad way to go about it. Yeesh, who would have thought that Alan Dershowitz was so shameless!

    Replies: @Bubba, @Sam Malone, @anonymous, @Testing12

    It wasn’t a name drop, it was a threat. Like that weird Kevin Spacey video.

  117. I’m sure even Robert Maxwell didn’t discuss embezzlement at his parties.

  118. @JohnnyWalker123
    @utu

    Right. It's a modern version of Traumnovelle, updated for late 90s NYC.

    Here are some thoughts on the film.

    -"Ziegler" is clearly Jewish. He's a rich socialite who presents a respectable face to NYC society, but is secretly running a huge prostitution ring that caters to the debauched tastes of elite locals. He seems to strongly believe in the Occult. Many of his friends are similar to him. His social circle seems to secretly exert an enormous amount of power, but is unknown to the general society.
    -Tom Cruise's character ("Dr. Bill") is a White Gentile doctor who rubs shoulders with "Ziegler" and his worldly rich friends, but is not quite at their level. "Dr. Bill" is in a subordinate role to them. He seems rather naive about women, sex, society, and all sorts of things. He's educated, but not worldly.
    -Nicole Kidman's character ("Alice") seems to be a former high-end escort who married well and is concealing her past. Due to her surface-level classiness, she can pass as respectable. The movie implies that even while being married to "Dr. Bill," she's fooling around on the side with powerful clients, being pampered by them in many ways. She's too addicted to their world of glamour, power, and drugs to ever really leave.
    -"Helena" (the couple's small daughter) is being brought up to value her beauty and money. It's strongly implied that she's being groomed to become a prostitute by her mother.
    -There's a scene in which an old man ("Lou Nathanson") dies, with his daughter calling "Dr. Bill" to come medically evaluate the man's corpse at his posh residence. She tries to initiate sex with "Dr. Bill" (near the corpse), with it being implied that she may have some necrophiliac fetish. It's vaguely implied that she may have killed her elderly father. The movie frequently portrays the intersection of death and sex as thrilling.
    -"Mr. Milich" is a Russian (likely of Jewish origin) who's secretly running a brothel that presents itself as a "costume" shop. His "costume" shop looks like a "Red Light" whorehouse.
    -The prostitute "Domino" has some similarities to "Dr. Bill's" small daughter. It's implied that the daughter will grow up to become like this prostitute.
    -Throughout the movie, there's a theme of the wealthy (like "Ziegler" and "Dr. Bill") using their affluence and power to exploit the working class, especially in sexual matters.
    -Christmas lights are literally everywhere, except the debaucherous party at the Somerton mansion. I suppose it's implied that the outside world is full of comforting illusions of peace, safety, prosperity, and joy (represented by Christmas lights). The real world (which is revealed at Somerton mansion) is far more dire and frightening. Human beings live with their illusions, with only a powerful and select few understanding the nature of the world around them.
    -The Star of Ishtar (a Sumerian deity around whom a cult of ritualized temple prostitution was built) is everywhere in the "Ziegler" mansion. Temple monuments seem to be evident at the Somerton house and "Dr. Bill's" home too. It's implied that "Alice" (the wife) is some type of ritual prostitute.
    -The Occult rituals and orgy at Somerton (which was once owned by the Rothschilds many years before the film was created) are clearly based on the real-life 1972 Rothschild "Illuminati Ball," with even the costumes being similar. Pedophilia isn't shown, but very strongly implied.
    -The prostitute "Mandy" turns on "Ziegler's" powerful sex trafficking ring to save "Dr. Bill" (who earlier saved her). After she's injected with a lethal cocktail of drugs, her death is disguised as an overdose. It's also revealed she was the "girlfriend" of fashion designer Leon Vitali (who's the Satanic priest that leads the rituals at Somerton). I suppose this was Kubrick's way of telling us the true nature of the "glamorous" fashion industry, which is really just a prostitution ring. It's also his way of telling us that many mysterious deaths of prominent people (especially overdoses) are concealed murders.
    -The fascination of the elite with the Occult is constantly portrayed throughout the film.
    -If you look at how the movie ends, "Dr. Bill" comes to realize the truly dark nature of the people who rule the society around him. He realizes his previous life was the comforting dream of a blissfully ignorant man. He realizes that the reality of the world is sinister and bleak, but only an awakened few understand this.
    -When the movie ends, "Dr. Bill's" daughter is kidnapped by "Ziegler's" goons, with it being implied that they'll molest her and force her to become a child sex slave. It's also implied that "Dr. Bill" and his wife "Alice" are allowing this to happen, under duress from "Ziegler."

    Kubrick created this film not just to bring Traumnovelle to life again, but to "Red Pill" the masses about the world around them. The point of the film is that most people have their "eyes wide shut" to the macabre nature of the world around them.

    Replies: @Not Only Wrathful, @syonredux, @HA

    “Ziegler” is clearly Jewish.

    Ziegler’s Jewishness is reinforced by the fact that Harvey Keitel was originally cast as the character. After a falling out with Kubrick, the part was re-cast with Sydney Pollack. Since both men are Jewish, it seems pretty clear that Kubrick wanted a Jewish performer in the part.

    https://www.anothermag.com/design-living/11844/debunking-the-myths-of-eyes-wide-shut-stanley-kubricks-final-film

    Tom Cruise’s character (“Dr. Bill”) is a White Gentile doctor

    In the book (Traumnovelle), Cruise’s character is named Fridolin and is Jewish. Kubrick very deliberately wanted the character to be non-Jewish in the film:

    Kubrick determined Bill should be a “Harrison Ford-ish goy” and created the surname of Harford as an allusion to the actor.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyes_Wide_Shut

    Bill and Alice Harford, the decidedly gentile married couple that the actors portrayed in 1999’s Eyes Wide Shut, are about as kosher as a bacon milkshake. But when Stanley Kubrick first conceived of adapting Arthur Schnitzler’s 1926 novella Traumnovelle in the Seventies, the filmmaker allegedly envisioned the male lead as Woody Allen, a man so Jewish that Shabbat practically observes him.

    Kubrick’s initial casting idea, which is all but inconceivable to anyone who’s seen the finished film, had been prompted by fidelity to its Freudian-to-a-fault source material. At some point during the intervening decades between Kubrick’s decision to bring the Schnitzler story to the screen and the first day of production, he had a change of heart. According to Kubrick’s credited co-writer, Frederic Raphael, the director eventually insisted that his protagonists be made “vanilla” Americans so as to establish a more perfect sense of normalcy for his smirking erotic psychodrama to defile.

    https://www.rollingstone.com/movies/movie-news/why-eyes-wide-shut-is-a-bizarro-holiday-classic-33753/

    And, yes, Harrison Ford is half-Jewish:

    Harrison Ford

    Place of Birth: Chicago, Illinois, U.S.

    Date of Birth: July 13, 1942

    Ethnicity:
    *father – Irish, some German
    *mother – Ashkenazi Jewish

    Harrison’s father was born in Manhattan, New York, of three quarters Irish and one quarter German ancestry. Harrison’s mother, also born in New York, was Jewish, the daughter of Jewish emigrants from Minsk, Belarus (at that time, Minsk was part of the Russian Empire).

    https://ethnicelebs.com/harrison-ford

    But, as Kubrick’s comment makes clear, Ford’s persona is very non-Jewish.

  119. @Anon
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Dershowitz is an ardent Zionist. If there is any inappropriate activity on his part in regards to Jeffery Epstein and Maxwell, I'd suspect it would be in the form of legal advice given to them. Perhaps Mr. Dershowitz was aware of a Mossad connection and did everything in his power to further its aims on behalf of Israel's interests? It was clearly an intelligence operation according to the former labor secretary. That would be my guess. Doubt Dershowitz did anything sexual. He wouldn't be that stupid.

    Replies: @Testing12

    These shills always come up in certain threads and have similar usernames.

  120. Sean says:
    @Steve Sailer
    @Harry Baldwin

    The young Monica Belluci would not up to some individuals' standards.

    Replies: @Sean

    I think you will find that well balanced women who listen to her story are the ones who remark her attractiveness was clearly never at the level her narrative implicitly requires. Giuffre was forced to concede she was 17 years old when she met Maxwell and began working for Epstein, not 15 as she originally claimed. Not getting a pass on her looks because she was a child appealing to deviants then.

    Her early account in sealed court documents of sex with numerous international politicians including a former president and two ex prime ministers that she tried to keep secret (one of those she named Mr. Dershowitz revealed last month to have been Ehud Barak) makes her looks an issue. If she was near beautiful her story might be easier to believe. Sadly, her credibility is zero, which is why none of the prosecutions of Epstein (like so many who plea bargained state charges he found himself a sitting duck for subsequent cast iron Federal indictments carrying a much longer sentence) dared use her as a witness.

    She would have tainted the entire case because a judge would be compelled to warn the jury of everything she said being unreliable. Believe me women on a jury would look at her and dismiss her as a fantasist. Maxwell is praying Giuffre will called by the prosecution, but they are not that stupid. The FBI work slow but sure, no one beats one of their cases. Maxwell will end up pleading guilty and do about five years in Club Fed.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Sean

    I read the indictment. Virginia will not be involved at all.

    The counts are enticing procuring and grooming girls as young as 14 for sex abuse by Jeffrey Epstein between 1994 and 1997. Under 16 is a more serious crime than pimping girls 16 and 17. The procuring and grooming charged in the indictment occurred before Virginia met Maxwell at age 15 or 17 depending on Virginia’s story. Virginia was 11-14 years old 1994-1997

    Prince Andrew did nothing wrong, broke no laws with Virginia. From Virginia’s statements, He neither solicited her for, not paid her for prostitution sex. Maxwell and Epstein could be charged with pimping , procuring, arranging facilitating , transporting for prostitution and Maxwell with running a brothel for that incident.

    Maxwell’s indictment charges her only with procuring under age minors for use by Jeffrey Epstein, no one else.

    Replies: @Sean, @Bill Jones

    , @fitzhamilton
    @Sean

    I've seen lots of pictures of the type of women Randy Andy found acceptable, and Giuffre falls well within that set. She was cute enough for me to believe her story. His Highness is a hound dog, he seems to be bit indiscriminate in his taste (Guiffre is definitely more attractive than his wife for sure) and he obviously is not as much of a pedo as Epstein was himself. Most fellows prefer their girls well post pubescent after all, and I'm sure Epstein procured older girls for him with that in mind.

    It's actually slightly astonishing that Andrew did not insist that they all be over 18, because if they had been he wouldn't be in any trouble. One day less 18 this our regime does a sexual predator make, and Andy is obviously too dumb and reckless to have restrained himself. The arrogance, idiocy and smug assumption that he would get away with this is amusing.

    Thank God for the Revolution, that we do not have bow and scrape before this silly twat..

  121. @Mr. Anon
    @Not Raul


    Does anyone have a theory about why Barr’s father got Epstein a teaching job?
     
    He really needed a teacher?

    Replies: @Not Raul

    Lots of people want to teach rich kids.

  122. @Jim Christian
    @Mr. Anon

    As has been the case with all of them.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    As has been the case with all of them.

    Yes. Indeed.

  123. HA says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    @utu

    Right. It's a modern version of Traumnovelle, updated for late 90s NYC.

    Here are some thoughts on the film.

    -"Ziegler" is clearly Jewish. He's a rich socialite who presents a respectable face to NYC society, but is secretly running a huge prostitution ring that caters to the debauched tastes of elite locals. He seems to strongly believe in the Occult. Many of his friends are similar to him. His social circle seems to secretly exert an enormous amount of power, but is unknown to the general society.
    -Tom Cruise's character ("Dr. Bill") is a White Gentile doctor who rubs shoulders with "Ziegler" and his worldly rich friends, but is not quite at their level. "Dr. Bill" is in a subordinate role to them. He seems rather naive about women, sex, society, and all sorts of things. He's educated, but not worldly.
    -Nicole Kidman's character ("Alice") seems to be a former high-end escort who married well and is concealing her past. Due to her surface-level classiness, she can pass as respectable. The movie implies that even while being married to "Dr. Bill," she's fooling around on the side with powerful clients, being pampered by them in many ways. She's too addicted to their world of glamour, power, and drugs to ever really leave.
    -"Helena" (the couple's small daughter) is being brought up to value her beauty and money. It's strongly implied that she's being groomed to become a prostitute by her mother.
    -There's a scene in which an old man ("Lou Nathanson") dies, with his daughter calling "Dr. Bill" to come medically evaluate the man's corpse at his posh residence. She tries to initiate sex with "Dr. Bill" (near the corpse), with it being implied that she may have some necrophiliac fetish. It's vaguely implied that she may have killed her elderly father. The movie frequently portrays the intersection of death and sex as thrilling.
    -"Mr. Milich" is a Russian (likely of Jewish origin) who's secretly running a brothel that presents itself as a "costume" shop. His "costume" shop looks like a "Red Light" whorehouse.
    -The prostitute "Domino" has some similarities to "Dr. Bill's" small daughter. It's implied that the daughter will grow up to become like this prostitute.
    -Throughout the movie, there's a theme of the wealthy (like "Ziegler" and "Dr. Bill") using their affluence and power to exploit the working class, especially in sexual matters.
    -Christmas lights are literally everywhere, except the debaucherous party at the Somerton mansion. I suppose it's implied that the outside world is full of comforting illusions of peace, safety, prosperity, and joy (represented by Christmas lights). The real world (which is revealed at Somerton mansion) is far more dire and frightening. Human beings live with their illusions, with only a powerful and select few understanding the nature of the world around them.
    -The Star of Ishtar (a Sumerian deity around whom a cult of ritualized temple prostitution was built) is everywhere in the "Ziegler" mansion. Temple monuments seem to be evident at the Somerton house and "Dr. Bill's" home too. It's implied that "Alice" (the wife) is some type of ritual prostitute.
    -The Occult rituals and orgy at Somerton (which was once owned by the Rothschilds many years before the film was created) are clearly based on the real-life 1972 Rothschild "Illuminati Ball," with even the costumes being similar. Pedophilia isn't shown, but very strongly implied.
    -The prostitute "Mandy" turns on "Ziegler's" powerful sex trafficking ring to save "Dr. Bill" (who earlier saved her). After she's injected with a lethal cocktail of drugs, her death is disguised as an overdose. It's also revealed she was the "girlfriend" of fashion designer Leon Vitali (who's the Satanic priest that leads the rituals at Somerton). I suppose this was Kubrick's way of telling us the true nature of the "glamorous" fashion industry, which is really just a prostitution ring. It's also his way of telling us that many mysterious deaths of prominent people (especially overdoses) are concealed murders.
    -The fascination of the elite with the Occult is constantly portrayed throughout the film.
    -If you look at how the movie ends, "Dr. Bill" comes to realize the truly dark nature of the people who rule the society around him. He realizes his previous life was the comforting dream of a blissfully ignorant man. He realizes that the reality of the world is sinister and bleak, but only an awakened few understand this.
    -When the movie ends, "Dr. Bill's" daughter is kidnapped by "Ziegler's" goons, with it being implied that they'll molest her and force her to become a child sex slave. It's also implied that "Dr. Bill" and his wife "Alice" are allowing this to happen, under duress from "Ziegler."

    Kubrick created this film not just to bring Traumnovelle to life again, but to "Red Pill" the masses about the world around them. The point of the film is that most people have their "eyes wide shut" to the macabre nature of the world around them.

    Replies: @Not Only Wrathful, @syonredux, @HA

    “Nicole Kidman’s character (“Alice”) seems to be a former high-end escort who married well and is concealing her past. Due to her surface-level classiness, she can pass as respectable. The movie implies that even while being married to “Dr. Bill,” she’s fooling around on the side with powerful clients, being pampered by them in many ways. …“Helena” (the couple’s small daughter) is being brought up to value her beauty and money. It’s strongly implied that she’s being groomed to become a prostitute by her mother.”

    Granted we’re discussing a very weird film, but this is just nuts — maybe next time, people should wait until the hallucinogens wear off before watching Kubrick. The Alice character actually admits, by way of a shocker opening, that one year earlier she had considered having an affair during their vacation. From this and the dream sequences that follow you conclude that she is “a former high-end escort who…is concealing her past” and that it is “strongly implied” that couple’s daughter is “being groomed to become a prostitute by her mother.”

    OK, I guess, but isn’t there already enough weird and kinky stuff in that movie to where you don’t have to grasp at straws to find more material?

    Of course, you’re free to visualize whatever twisted things you want, like all those weird riffs on “The Shining” and you’re not alone in seeing this kind of thing but given that, you don’t have much in the way of credibility when it comes to any real-life grooming rings, Epstein or otherwise. In fact, if there’s a conspiracy theory to be made here, it’s that those who are pushing these weird “interpretations” are either paid stooges or useful idiots for one of these grooming outfits, busily trying to discredit and/or shut down any legitimate investigation by derailing the discussion into ever weirder tangents involving the Illuminati, Satanists, etc. I’ll give you the Mossad, given the Maxwell connections, but you don’t need to bring in the Illuminati or the lizard people just yet.

    Indeed, in the case of the so-called Satanic child abuse hysteria, this derailing was effected (intentionally or through sincere misguided zeal) by overweening child mediators who eventually were able to get the alleged child victims to discuss how their abusers could fly in mid-air and that one of them was Chuck Norris in some underground pedo chamber. As a result, people are still wasting time with that embarrassment of prosecutorial overreach instead of following up very real and just-as-disturbing pedo rings, e.g. Operation Cathedral, whose unidentified victims (in the stash of polaroids and other “source material”) number in the thousands to this day.

    One interesting thing about Operation Cathedral is that the investigation started with police from a wider group of countries than the one it ended with. Eventually, the task force had to be narrowed down because certain countries couldn’t provide assurances that they wouldn’t just tip off the people on the list who were fellow nationals. Chew on that for a minute. So yeah, that’s plenty disturbing enough.

  124. Anonymous[333] • Disclaimer says:
    @Russ
    @Anonymous


    Could somebody else give this a try and see what happens? Has anyone else seen anything like this?
     
    Any time I try to quote Lyndon Johnson on how passing the Voting/Civil Rights Act would get "them eggplant" voting Democrat for the next 200 years, the comment never gets published -- and that's on this very iSteve site. So your experience with YouTube does not surprise me at all. In my case, I've yet to find an acceptable proxy to the six-letter quasi-pejorative beginning with the 14th letter. Perhaps this comment won't air either. Pity; after all, it was LBJ who said it.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Well, sure, but I didn’t use any “eggplant” language (which I don’t blame Steve for censoring), and I was able to post each of the three sentences by itself. This suggests that rather than a simple unsophisticated filtering of objectionable words, YouTube is training an AI to filter out objectionable content, which is much worse. It could eventually be an automated equivalent of the millions of people the Chinese government employs to censor social media, except that some of the censors end up getting red-pilled, which will never happen with an AI. How far behind can a social credit score be?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    "It could eventually be an automated equivalent of the millions of people the Chinese government employs to censor social media, except that some of the censors end up getting red-pilled, which will never happen with an AI."

    If there is any hope, it lies in the robots.

  125. @Anonymous
    @Russ

    Well, sure, but I didn't use any "eggplant" language (which I don't blame Steve for censoring), and I was able to post each of the three sentences by itself. This suggests that rather than a simple unsophisticated filtering of objectionable words, YouTube is training an AI to filter out objectionable content, which is much worse. It could eventually be an automated equivalent of the millions of people the Chinese government employs to censor social media, except that some of the censors end up getting red-pilled, which will never happen with an AI. How far behind can a social credit score be?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    “It could eventually be an automated equivalent of the millions of people the Chinese government employs to censor social media, except that some of the censors end up getting red-pilled, which will never happen with an AI.”

    If there is any hope, it lies in the robots.

  126. @anonymous
    @Ian Smith


    name dropping a Rothschild is a bad way to go about it.
     
    Think this is what is increasingly referred to by the J-Woke as a FLEX.

    Yes this is bare naked chutzpah so obvious that it screams to be pointed out or even mocked. But point is that Jews are counting on you won't because doing so would mean having the entire Jewish power structure come down on you with their most controlled goyim deep state button men ie the Clintons out in front leading the way.

    Jews have created a media environment where a goyim even mentioning a Rothschild in any unfavorable light means they can destroy you as a insane neo-nazi mouth breathing conspiracy theorist.

    Congressman Adam Schiff can appear with his kid in a Mossad tee-shirt on social media and the only folks who will mention it are David Duke, Stormfront and Unz,

    Tells you something!!!

    Replies: @Art Deco

    There are, IIRC, two sets of Rothschild firms, one controlled by one set of cousins and another by a different one. The assets of the larger set were around $17 bn the last time I checked. That would be on the order of the largest local bank in a 2d tier city. Why are they of interest?

  127. @Alden
    @Harry Baldwin

    The MEN OF UNZ have incredibly high standards of beauty.

    Virginia is , was a very pretty woman and girl. She was much prettier 50 pounds less in that picture than she is now.

    That picture with Andrew is the epitome of standard N European beauty. Big eyes, good features, great smile, slim , natural blondey light brown hair.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Anonymous

    She’s pleasant looking in that photo, not the ‘epitome’ of anything. As for her more recent appearances, someone needs to tell her to quit coloring her hair and get it properly cut.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Art Deco

    Your standards are unrealistically high. Virginia was and is very pretty. I was once at O’Hare airport with about 20 Miss whatever’s on their way to Miss America contest. She would have fit in very well with them. In fact, some of them were noticeably less pretty than Virginia.

    Replies: @Art Deco

  128. @syonredux
    @syonredux

    .....and then there's Jeffrey Epstein's bizarre island temple....


    https://amp.insider.com/images/5d26225a21a86139d86fa265-1536-768.jpg

    Replies: @Alden

    The blue stripes white background signify the flag of Israel and prayer shawls. The design means all the lands between the Nile and other rivers in the Middle East.

  129. @Art Deco
    @Alden

    She's pleasant looking in that photo, not the 'epitome' of anything. As for her more recent appearances, someone needs to tell her to quit coloring her hair and get it properly cut.

    Replies: @Alden

    Your standards are unrealistically high. Virginia was and is very pretty. I was once at O’Hare airport with about 20 Miss whatever’s on their way to Miss America contest. She would have fit in very well with them. In fact, some of them were noticeably less pretty than Virginia.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Alden

    Your standards are unrealistically high.

    I wasn't trying to get a date out of her in 1999, or at any other time.

    Replies: @Alden

  130. Off topic. ADL, AJC $PLC are denouncing a Trump in 2020 T shirt as an anti Semitic Nazi symbol. It’s an eagle clutching an American flag.

    Hatred goes the other way. Most Jews hate America in varying degrees. Pictures of eagles and American flags don’t hate anyone.

  131. @ATBOTL
    We see the neocons on here say the same thing about this case, that it's not a big deal. They even go Freudian and suggest that the people making a big deal of it are driven by some psychopathology.

    Another thing they will do is make lots of off topic comments when this case comes up here. That is quite effective, you see lots of goyim taking the bait and talking about the distractions rather than the issue.

    Replies: @Kratoklastes

    Misdirection is a classic rhetorical tactic – along with tu quoque and whatabout-ism – for those who know their core argument is weak. For people like Dershowitz it’s almost pathological – which is why he seldom says 2 sentences without at least one of them being irrelevant.

    If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about answers. – Thomas Pynchon, “Gravity’s Rainbow”“, 1973

    Most of the people who participate in Epstein-type debauchery groups aren’t paedophiles. They participate because refusing to do so freezes them out of a segment of society to which they want to belong.

    Breaches of societal taboos are the device by which aspirants show themselves willing to do anything to belong. They willingly furnish kompromat on themselves.

    It’s C. S. Lewis’ “The Inner Ring“, writ large.

    This is very different from the old-fashioned honeypot like the ones that the USSR used to ‘turn’ Philby, Burgess, McLean, Blunt and Cairncross… and at least two dozen others.

    Honeypots have ‘marks’ or ‘targets’. By contrast, “how far will you go?” political-filter operations have aspirants.

    In a standard honeypot, the mark has the characteristic in question (e.g., homosexuality, infidelity, drug use, paedophilia) and doesn’t know he’s the target. The kompromat is obtained without the mark’s knowledge, and the ‘reveal’ is “OK, from now on, you do as we say or your life is fucked“.

    In a political filter, the characteristic is irrelevant, and by the time the aspirant is passing more-degenerate hurdles, he knows that it’s all on tape. It’s a loyalty test.

    The initiatory phases tend to be small-potatoes stuff, e.g., going to a strip club at the invitation of a senior colleague. Things that are moderately embarrassing in polite circles, but are nevertheless ‘career-survivable’. Anyone who draws the line at that point is far too soft to be useful, and the event that they ‘balk’ at is relatively unremarkable.

    Thereafter, progress further into the ring “asks more” of the aspirant.

    People who want to be in the Inner Ring are generally willing to do anything asked of them – whether it’s stupid robes-and-chanting Aleister Crowley LARP, or (at the limit) raping a child.

    And of course there are people in each ring who do strongly-prefer the degeneracy being asked of the aspirants. It’s just not true for most aspirants.

  132. @Jim Don Bob
    @JohnnyWalker123

    3 things:
    1) Virginia Giuffre doesn't look unhappy in that picture.
    2) She is not that good looking. I mean, Jesus H. Christ, if you're gonna run an international teenage hooker ring, why wouldn't you get some cuties?
    3) Where are the other females who were trafficked? Even if they signed NDAs in 2008, there is money and fame in #MeToo by coming forward now.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @Nathan, @HA, @sayless, @Almost Missouri

    Not everyone who has a story like that wants to come forward with it.

  133. The indictment is at apps.npr.org and scribd .com

    Indictment No Cr. 330.

    It’s in 2 parts second part is perjury in a 2016 deposition in which the DOJ states Maxwell repeatedly lied about procuring girls as young as 14 for the sexual abuse of Jeffrey Epstein.

    Count one is enticing, procuring and grooming underage girls some as young as14 for sex abuse by Jeffrey Epstein between 1994 and 1997.

  134. Anon[269] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alden
    @Anon

    He recruited the Florida girls from the high schools, that’s underage. In fact, the first 2 girls who attracted the attention of law enforcement were 14. Prostitution and pimping of women and men of any age is against the law. The girls gave sex in exchange for money. Epstein gave them money. That’s prostitution whether age 12, 20 or 40.

    The defenders of Maxwell and Epstein on this site keep trying to twist the discussion into age of consent, not prostitution.

    Anyone who’s ever worked in law enforcement or studied prostitution knows that there’s a constant process of recruitment. Black street pimps call their men recruiters henchmen.

    Teen prostitutes require more intensive recruitment efforts than young adults for various reasons. First they’re under standard teen restrictions whether they live at home or in group homes for delinquents. It’s not easy for them to be working as hookers at night. Second, teen girls often become prostitutes when Prince Charming recruits them, find they don’t like it and run away right back home.

    Whether it’s skanky retarded street hookers or very expensive escort agencies recruitment and retain ment is a major part of the prostitution business. Adult women answer escort agency ads voluntarily. But the escort women are under constant pressure to recruit others. An escort agency that the customers pay but doesn’t give the prostitutes their share doesn’t last long . High school girls have to be recruited.

    And as the Palm Beach police chief always said
    “ It’s not the typical he said she said thing. It’s one he and 300 shes and all the shes tell the same story”.

    Replies: @Anon

    He recruited the Florida girls from the high schools, that’s underage.

    Please cite some solid source for this. I’ve run down too many of these rabbit holes that are dead ends.

    “He recruited … from high schools.” What does that even mean? Job fairs? Standing outside campuses? Seniors are 17 or 18 anyway. 18 is age of consent in many states.

    Here’s something that might have happened: A current adult girl introduces a 17 year old. Epstein keeps in touch with her until she’s older. Epstein gives her a job. Epstein pays her well for the job. In addition she has sex with men who she meets via Epstein. They pay her money as a sugerdaddy. If a prosecutor wants to find something illegal here I’m sure he could.

    I read a report where the journalist could have chosen any “Epstein survivor” she wanted to. She chose to focus on a girl who was (barely) an adult when she met Epstein, who was given jobs doing stuff on a computer, and who returned of her own volution over and over again because she wanted money. She slept with guys because she wanted more money. She was angre and regretted it later because she had decided that she wished she had gone to college and been able to start some sort of career. Would college have made a difference for her? She didn’t sound that smart in the article, but who knows. Now she’s going around peddling her Epstein stories, which are relatively well documented, but weirdly non scandalous. If there is a 14 year old, if it were me as the journalist, I would have chosen to profile her instead. The fact that these former 14 year olds never seem to materialize in reports with a face and a name is suspicious to me. And now you, Mr. Alden, show up and proclaim in a comment thread, “He recruited the Florida girls from the high schools, that’s underage. In fact, the first 2 girls who attracted the attention of law enforcement were 14” with no citation to court documents (every court document in Florida is online) or a rigourously and skeptically reported piece of journalistm … what am I supposed to do?

    =====

    Re my second point about Epstein never trading: Matt Taibbi is a top-notch, skeptical journalist. If only he would research this story. That’s what Joe Rogan said when Taibbi was on his show. Yet after explicitly citing and quoting from the infamous Vanity Fair piece on Epstein, which I identified as the patient zero source of all “My buds in NY finance told me Epstein never traded” memes, he (Taibbi) says at 06:38 “I have friends on Wall Street who told me, ‘I’ve never heard a single instance of this guy actually having a trade.’”

    “Friends on Wall Street”? Why would they be in a position to know? Are they friends, or friends of friends? Is “I” I or a friend? Taibbi admits to having read the VF piece. I’m sure his Wall Street friends did also. Are his friends passing on what they (and he) read as first hand information”? Or did they quote it and Taibbi unconsciously did the urban legend FOAF move and move up the attribution one or two links in the chain? And again, who on Wall Street would even know other than specific people in the specific firm that Epstein used? How can anyone proclaim a negative, “I’ve never heard …”? Let’s say Taibbi said, “I know someone at a firm that executed some trades for Epstein, and he traded very infrequently and in amounts that seem very small for his rumored wealth. I don’t know if he also used other firms.” That has some meat and credibility to it. That’s not what he said though. So if a sharp investigative journalist can occasionally fall into this kind of crap rumormongering, the typical journalist and web writer are much more susceptible.

  135. @Anon
    Here are some problems I see with the more outlandish Epstein theories:

    -- Underaged girls. The girls in question seem to have been over the age of consent from the beginning in the case of all substatiated testimony by named, identifiable “survivors.” This may gobsmack you since nobody seems to be pointing it out, but read closely claims to the contrary and track back the evidence. For instance, you find an anonymous "survivor" who supposedly said she saw another girl who looked 14, stuff like that.

    -- Story that Epstein never traded stocks. I traced this back to a piece I believe in Vanity Fair, where the journalist asked a couple of unidentified friends holding down undescribed jobs made that comment. Why would a couple of guys in the financial industry know whether Epstein was trading or not? Yet this claim has appeared all over the place as though it came from a reliable person who would have that information.

    -- Today in the NY Post: A crazy anti-Epstein column, containing no factual allegations other than: a "survivor" in a NetFlix doc pointed to holes in the exterior of Epstein's NY digs and said they were for cameras and the place was full of secret cameras that Epstein monitored from a secret room. That is a factual allegation which can be proven or disproven. Let's hope we hear the results of that. But until then:

    o The "Trial of Jesus" problem in textual analysis: Claims made by someone not in a postition to know (vd. above re stock trading) are unreliable. Why would a young survivor know about a secret video system and room?

    o Why would an exterior surveillance system use secret cameras? Or if the holes were just screws for a normal exterior security camera, why are they evidence of an interior secret surveillance system? The nature of the holes should be able to be determined by any passerby with a stepladder.

    o Who installed the system? Do staff or neighbors remember such a construction project? Were staff given a vacation and told to stay away from the house for awhile? Which room was the monitoring room? There should be a lot of evidence remaining that cables, cameras, and mic's were there. A lot of people could be questioned about this.

    o Where are the videos? Has anyone claimed to have seen video? Has anyone claimed to have witnessed a burning of videoss?

    All claims just kind of peter off into flaky sourcing (anonymous survivors, survivors with no specific knowledge), or turn into non-crimes (survivors who were adults, took money, and wished they had gone to college instead and not thrown away their youth as bimbos to sugardaddies).

    Replies: @Alden, @Alden

    I read the indictment. The second count is perjury that occurred at depositions in 2016 in which “ “Maxwell repeatedly lied”

    The first count is enticing, grooming and procuring underage girls some as young as 14 for prostitution and sex abuse by Jeffrey Epstein from 1994-1997
    That’s the federal indictment charges for Maxwell Nothing about young adults or girls over the age of consent.

    Since Virginia Roberts was 11-14 years old 1994-1997, she is not involved in this federal case at all Roberts claims she was recruited by Maxwell when she was 15.

    Read the indictment

  136. @Sean
    @Steve Sailer

    I think you will find that well balanced women who listen to her story are the ones who remark her attractiveness was clearly never at the level her narrative implicitly requires. Giuffre was forced to concede she was 17 years old when she met Maxwell and began working for Epstein, not 15 as she originally claimed. Not getting a pass on her looks because she was a child appealing to deviants then.

    Her early account in sealed court documents of sex with numerous international politicians including a former president and two ex prime ministers that she tried to keep secret (one of those she named Mr. Dershowitz revealed last month to have been Ehud Barak) makes her looks an issue. If she was near beautiful her story might be easier to believe. Sadly, her credibility is zero, which is why none of the prosecutions of Epstein (like so many who plea bargained state charges he found himself a sitting duck for subsequent cast iron Federal indictments carrying a much longer sentence) dared use her as a witness.

    She would have tainted the entire case because a judge would be compelled to warn the jury of everything she said being unreliable. Believe me women on a jury would look at her and dismiss her as a fantasist. Maxwell is praying Giuffre will called by the prosecution, but they are not that stupid. The FBI work slow but sure, no one beats one of their cases. Maxwell will end up pleading guilty and do about five years in Club Fed.

    Replies: @Alden, @fitzhamilton

    I read the indictment. Virginia will not be involved at all.

    The counts are enticing procuring and grooming girls as young as 14 for sex abuse by Jeffrey Epstein between 1994 and 1997. Under 16 is a more serious crime than pimping girls 16 and 17. The procuring and grooming charged in the indictment occurred before Virginia met Maxwell at age 15 or 17 depending on Virginia’s story. Virginia was 11-14 years old 1994-1997

    Prince Andrew did nothing wrong, broke no laws with Virginia. From Virginia’s statements, He neither solicited her for, not paid her for prostitution sex. Maxwell and Epstein could be charged with pimping , procuring, arranging facilitating , transporting for prostitution and Maxwell with running a brothel for that incident.

    Maxwell’s indictment charges her only with procuring under age minors for use by Jeffrey Epstein, no one else.

    • Replies: @Sean
    @Alden


    Maxwell’s indictment charges her only with procuring under age minors for use by Jeffrey Epstein, no one else
     
    Exactly. There was no one else. It was just Epstein 24/7 with his pathetic endowment making a pig of himself with acts such as being buttock to buttock (!) and trying to excite his jaded palate with younger and younger girls. In Miami he hardly ever penetrated them. Not a single one of those dozens of girls in all their visits saw any man but him at the Miami mansion, and none saw Maxwell. She was his entrée into society. All women marry their fathers and hers was a fraudster who caught the bus and left her holding the bag.

    Prince Andrew did nothing wrong, broke no laws with Virginia. From Virginia’s statements, He neither solicited her for, not paid her for prostitution sex. Maxwell and Epstein could be charged with pimping , procuring, arranging facilitating , transporting for prostitution and Maxwell with running a brothel for that incident.
     
    The offence would be pandering. I don't think having sex with the paid employee of a person's household opens them to a charge of running a brothel. But in any case there are reasons to doubt Andrew had sex with Guiffre, and she is proven to have told untruths about how old she was when she met Andrew. The Prince married a woman who was older than him and when he had an American girlfriend (actress Koo Stark) she was older than him too.... er, still is. He once asked out a friend of the Queen who was decades older than him. He was also rumoured to have gone gay for a time after his divorce.

    Andrew could have had 17 year old models and actresses had he been so inclined. Sixteen year old girls were appearing nude across the entire Page Three of the the most popular British Newspapers at the time. (Page Three made the Sun a cash cow for Rupert Murdoch, and is the basis of his empire). It would have raised eyebrows if he had flaunted it, but Andrew would have been quite safe legally bedding super hot 16 year old models in London if he had wanted to. So he goes to Florida, the land of statutory rape, and does it with a hard faced working girl?

    He has never went for the teen stuff. Guiffre lied about her age, for years she said she was 15 in the photo, but now admits she was at least 17, Guiffre tried to keep secret the depositions in which she accused the former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, now Dershowitz is publicizing the allegation against Barak as a way of showing that Guiffre was picking names out of a hat. Anyway, Giuffre's selling point was specific to Epstein's fetish for massage.

    By Giuffre's own account, when she was a 17 year old attendant in a changing room at Trump's resort (where her father was groundskeeper), Maxwell noticed her reading an anatomy book and on finding out Guiffre aspired to be one of the masseuses at the resort (Epstein had been banned by Trump for making a pass at a spa masseuse), Maxwell offered Guiffre a job as personal masseuse to Epstein. The therapists at Trump's spa are legit, they are also really good looking. Whether Guiffre took the Epstein offer because she thought with her looks she would never get a gig as a legit masseuse at good pay for the Trump spa, or because she is just a hard faced sex worker personality, I have no idea. Guiffre never mentioned Dershowitz until a tabloid journalist she was collaborating with on a book brought the name up.

    Replies: @Alden

    , @Bill Jones
    @Alden

    So being a Public Relations figurehead for a whorehouse is legal?

    Replies: @Alden

  137. CJ says:
    @Not Raul
    @Anon

    Thanks, that’s interesting.

    However, Loomis really was a scientist; and I don’t believe that he was a conman. Epstein was the opposite.

    Does anyone have a theory about why Barr’s father got Epstein a teaching job?

    Replies: @Escher, @Mr. Anon, @CJ

    I tried to research that one. There was an NYT article from 1974 describing the senior Barr’s departure from the school after a series of internal disagreements in January 1974. He was gone no later than February. Epstein began teaching at Dalton in September 1974. It’s not clear what involvement, if any, Barr Sr. had with Epstein.

    https://www.nytimes.com/1974/02/20/archives/barr-quits-dalton-school-post-charging-trustees-interference.html

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/12/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-dalton-teacher.htm

    • Thanks: Not Raul
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @CJ

    So if Barr the Elder was pushed out of Dalton by, say, March 1, 1974, he probably didn't have anything to do with hiring Epstein to start teaching there six months later.

    Anyway, Epstein wasn't Epstein! in 1974. He was just a groundskeeper's son, a nobody.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  138. @CJ
    @Not Raul

    I tried to research that one. There was an NYT article from 1974 describing the senior Barr’s departure from the school after a series of internal disagreements in January 1974. He was gone no later than February. Epstein began teaching at Dalton in September 1974. It’s not clear what involvement, if any, Barr Sr. had with Epstein.

    https://www.nytimes.com/1974/02/20/archives/barr-quits-dalton-school-post-charging-trustees-interference.html

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/12/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-dalton-teacher.htm

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    So if Barr the Elder was pushed out of Dalton by, say, March 1, 1974, he probably didn’t have anything to do with hiring Epstein to start teaching there six months later.

    Anyway, Epstein wasn’t Epstein! in 1974. He was just a groundskeeper’s son, a nobody.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Steve Sailer

    Barr was not pushed out of Dalton immediately. The NYT article explicitly said that although he resigned, he was going to continue as headmaster for the rest of the year, leaving on June 7. So he probably did hire Epstein, although it's possible that he left the vacancy for the new headmaster to fill during the Summer.

  139. Anonymous[360] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alden
    @Harry Baldwin

    The MEN OF UNZ have incredibly high standards of beauty.

    Virginia is , was a very pretty woman and girl. She was much prettier 50 pounds less in that picture than she is now.

    That picture with Andrew is the epitome of standard N European beauty. Big eyes, good features, great smile, slim , natural blondey light brown hair.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Anonymous

    Steve mentioned Monica Bellucci. You can google pictures of a young Monica Bellucci. Virginia is attractive, but she’s obviously not model caliber like Bellucci was. Virginia has a girl next door look to her, not knockout model like Bellucci.

    Just being young and not overweight goes very far in terms of female attractiveness to older men. That coupled with being fairly attractive with a girl next door look would’ve been very appealing to Prince Andrew and older male dignitaries. But Virginia is only in her 30s now and has hit the wall hard. The fact that she looks so bad now shows that it was mostly youth going for her. That’s why they say you can’t really tell if a woman is/was truly beautiful until she’s 40 and the mirage of youth has faded. Bellucci is decades older than Virginia and is truly beautiful compared to her.

  140. @Alden
    @Sean

    I read the indictment. Virginia will not be involved at all.

    The counts are enticing procuring and grooming girls as young as 14 for sex abuse by Jeffrey Epstein between 1994 and 1997. Under 16 is a more serious crime than pimping girls 16 and 17. The procuring and grooming charged in the indictment occurred before Virginia met Maxwell at age 15 or 17 depending on Virginia’s story. Virginia was 11-14 years old 1994-1997

    Prince Andrew did nothing wrong, broke no laws with Virginia. From Virginia’s statements, He neither solicited her for, not paid her for prostitution sex. Maxwell and Epstein could be charged with pimping , procuring, arranging facilitating , transporting for prostitution and Maxwell with running a brothel for that incident.

    Maxwell’s indictment charges her only with procuring under age minors for use by Jeffrey Epstein, no one else.

    Replies: @Sean, @Bill Jones

    Maxwell’s indictment charges her only with procuring under age minors for use by Jeffrey Epstein, no one else

    Exactly. There was no one else. It was just Epstein 24/7 with his pathetic endowment making a pig of himself with acts such as being buttock to buttock (!) and trying to excite his jaded palate with younger and younger girls. In Miami he hardly ever penetrated them. Not a single one of those dozens of girls in all their visits saw any man but him at the Miami mansion, and none saw Maxwell. She was his entrée into society. All women marry their fathers and hers was a fraudster who caught the bus and left her holding the bag.

    Prince Andrew did nothing wrong, broke no laws with Virginia. From Virginia’s statements, He neither solicited her for, not paid her for prostitution sex. Maxwell and Epstein could be charged with pimping , procuring, arranging facilitating , transporting for prostitution and Maxwell with running a brothel for that incident.

    The offence would be pandering. I don’t think having sex with the paid employee of a person’s household opens them to a charge of running a brothel. But in any case there are reasons to doubt Andrew had sex with Guiffre, and she is proven to have told untruths about how old she was when she met Andrew. The Prince married a woman who was older than him and when he had an American girlfriend (actress Koo Stark) she was older than him too…. er, still is. He once asked out a friend of the Queen who was decades older than him. He was also rumoured to have gone gay for a time after his divorce.

    Andrew could have had 17 year old models and actresses had he been so inclined. Sixteen year old girls were appearing nude across the entire Page Three of the the most popular British Newspapers at the time. (Page Three made the Sun a cash cow for Rupert Murdoch, and is the basis of his empire). It would have raised eyebrows if he had flaunted it, but Andrew would have been quite safe legally bedding super hot 16 year old models in London if he had wanted to. So he goes to Florida, the land of statutory rape, and does it with a hard faced working girl?

    He has never went for the teen stuff. Guiffre lied about her age, for years she said she was 15 in the photo, but now admits she was at least 17, Guiffre tried to keep secret the depositions in which she accused the former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, now Dershowitz is publicizing the allegation against Barak as a way of showing that Guiffre was picking names out of a hat. Anyway, Giuffre’s selling point was specific to Epstein’s fetish for massage.

    By Giuffre’s own account, when she was a 17 year old attendant in a changing room at Trump’s resort (where her father was groundskeeper), Maxwell noticed her reading an anatomy book and on finding out Guiffre aspired to be one of the masseuses at the resort (Epstein had been banned by Trump for making a pass at a spa masseuse), Maxwell offered Guiffre a job as personal masseuse to Epstein. The therapists at Trump’s spa are legit, they are also really good looking. Whether Guiffre took the Epstein offer because she thought with her looks she would never get a gig as a legit masseuse at good pay for the Trump spa, or because she is just a hard faced sex worker personality, I have no idea. Guiffre never mentioned Dershowitz until a tabloid journalist she was collaborating with on a book brought the name up.

    • Thanks: Jim Don Bob
    • Replies: @Alden
    @Sean

    Please read Maxwell’s indictment, no pimping after 1997 when Virginia was 14 and had not yet met Maxwell Et al.

    Please read the prostitution laws of the UK which I did. Prostitution is technically legal, but all the ancillary activities such as running a brothel, arranging for prostitutes and customers to meet. and numerous ancillary activities are illegal Even kerb crawling or sex harassment of ordinary women in the hopes a man can find a cheap hooker is illegal. And prostitutes loitering in public or bars to find customers is illegal.

    Maxwell did all of these things in the UK. Her home met the definition of brothel. She brought or trafficked Virginia to the UK and arranged for Virginia to meet Andrew. But Maxwell has not been charged in America under UK prostitution laws because of what Virginia and Andrew did in Maxwell’s house in another country.

    The indictment and consequent prosecution ( if Maxwell lives long enough) have nothing to do with Virginia and Andrew in the UK.

    Different laws, different countries, years before Virginia met Maxwell and Epstein.

    Replies: @Sean

  141. @Hemid
    @Sam Malone

    Everyone associated with the corporate punk rock business anytime since the '70s has had Courtney Love schizo-posting on their phone. It's what binds our people.

    "Mumbling and blathering" was her style from about '89-'94. Before and after, more yelling.

    Germ's comment is already power-leveled enough that, remembering a couple other things he's mentioned, a minor shock to the scrotum could probably make me identify him (or at least cast a line-up). Luckily we're not important. But still, hey, shhh.

    Replies: @Sam Malone

    Ha, ok I see.

  142. Sure, Epstein is unconnected to any deep state sources.

    That’s why this happened on July 1st, the day before Maxwell was arrested.

    “US District Court Judge Loretta Preska, who was appointed by George Herbert Walker Bush, and whom his son had considered promoting to the Supreme Court, ruled in a case on July 1st, ordering the attorneys for one of Jeffrey Epstein’s alleged victims, Virginia (Roberts) Guiffre, to “destroy” a list of men who had taken advantage of Epstein’s “girls.”

    This action pertains to a case not only against Epstein, who is dead, but against his friend and colleague Ghislaine Maxwell, who happened to become arrested by the FBI in Bedford New Hampshire the very next day, on July 2nd.”

    https://off-guardian.org/2020/07/05/judge-orders-destruction-of-epstein-evidence/

    Oddly, this didn’t get much coverage from the corporate media whores.

    After all, the public has no legitimate interest in knowing all the names, do they?

  143. @Jim Don Bob
    @JohnnyWalker123

    3 things:
    1) Virginia Giuffre doesn't look unhappy in that picture.
    2) She is not that good looking. I mean, Jesus H. Christ, if you're gonna run an international teenage hooker ring, why wouldn't you get some cuties?
    3) Where are the other females who were trafficked? Even if they signed NDAs in 2008, there is money and fame in #MeToo by coming forward now.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @Nathan, @HA, @sayless, @Almost Missouri

    Where are the other females who were trafficked?

    Here’s one:

    https://nbc25news.com/news/local/alleged-jeffrey-epstein-victim-from-northern-michigan-steps-forward-11-18-2019

    Other than the doughty Daily Mail and New York Post, she only got local coverage.

    She specifically says she was intimidated from earlier disclosure by Epstein’s powerful connections. Strangely the whole “truth to power” crowd was uninterested in this story of power ruining innocence, as they have been in all these types of stories.

    Here’s a contemporary photo of her:
    Here’s her bracelet at the press conference:

  144. Anon[492] • Disclaimer says:
    @Pericles
    @utu

    Buenos Aires is something of a secret jewish hideout, isn't it?

    Replies: @Anon

    Argentina has a lot of jews. You will find many in Miami, as well as the Venezuelan jews, some able to fly back and forth. In fact, lots of Latin American Jews flock to Miami and pretend to be “Chilean” or whatever.

    My guess is there’s plenty of transnational money launderers, who can socialize with “Chicagoans” and “New Yorkers” and even “Parisians”.

  145. @Alden
    @Sean

    I read the indictment. Virginia will not be involved at all.

    The counts are enticing procuring and grooming girls as young as 14 for sex abuse by Jeffrey Epstein between 1994 and 1997. Under 16 is a more serious crime than pimping girls 16 and 17. The procuring and grooming charged in the indictment occurred before Virginia met Maxwell at age 15 or 17 depending on Virginia’s story. Virginia was 11-14 years old 1994-1997

    Prince Andrew did nothing wrong, broke no laws with Virginia. From Virginia’s statements, He neither solicited her for, not paid her for prostitution sex. Maxwell and Epstein could be charged with pimping , procuring, arranging facilitating , transporting for prostitution and Maxwell with running a brothel for that incident.

    Maxwell’s indictment charges her only with procuring under age minors for use by Jeffrey Epstein, no one else.

    Replies: @Sean, @Bill Jones

    So being a Public Relations figurehead for a whorehouse is legal?

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Bill Jones

    You obviously didn’t read my post.

    Maxwell is charged with the crimes of enticing procuring grooming and trafficking under age minors some as young as 14 for sexual abuse by Jeffrey Epstein. I read the indictment. I summarized it. You can read the indictment too.

    Maybe you confused Florida prostitution laws with UK prostitution laws.

    The fact that Maxwell has been indicted for running a whore house proves what she did ik illegal and fits the legal definition of pimping pandering recruiting and trafficking. .

    Replies: @Bill Jones

  146. @Alden
    @Art Deco

    Your standards are unrealistically high. Virginia was and is very pretty. I was once at O’Hare airport with about 20 Miss whatever’s on their way to Miss America contest. She would have fit in very well with them. In fact, some of them were noticeably less pretty than Virginia.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    Your standards are unrealistically high.

    I wasn’t trying to get a date out of her in 1999, or at any other time.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Art Deco

    I knew a Miss Illinois when I was young. Compared to Virginia she was plain. Also knew a Miss California. Prettier than Miss Illinois about as pretty as Virginia in that picture.

    Some boomer and millennial men spent their youth looking at the air brushed heavily made up and more or less artificially created Play boy girls and never found a real woman to equal those artificial creatures. I’m not saying you’re one of them of course.

    I’m sure every girl and woman you’ve ever known is a drop dead dazzler. Such outstanding beauties every man turns around and stares. Such beauties they causes traffic jams and accidents when they go out in public.

    Replies: @Sean, @Art Deco

  147. Sean says:
    @Curious George
    @Anon

    Eric Weinstein is himself a frustrated would-be physicist. His inability to make a career in math/physics drives his critique of contemporary society.

    On a recent podcast/interview with Rebel Wisdom (first half of 2020, I think), Weinstein discusses Epstein, whom he met once or twice. He says Epstein was not like any other hedge fund/finance guy he had ever met. He exuded no special intelligence or drive, let alone charm, and that raised Weinstein's suspicions. So Weinstein's testimony contradicts Steve's theory proposed above.

    Replies: @Sean

    Epstein presented himself as an expert at hiding money (for tax evasion purposes obviously) not a master financier or investment manager. He found his dream mark in Wexner who naively granted Epstein a power of attorney over the Wexner empire, whereupon Epstein proceeded to steal hundreds of millions from Wexner. That required being glib and not much more.

    Mathematical Biologist Martin Nowak (a German Catholic) talked about Epstein in a book (Supercooperators) before all this came out and he said Epstein was familiar with the ideas and a very generous donator to establish a institute at Harvard. Ironically, Nowak’s theories revolve around the benefits of being known for altruism. I think that is why Epstein donated, he was wanting the benefits of a reputation for being a philanthropist. If you are embezzling money, giving a little of it away is a smart move, ask Bernie Madoff.

    In Federal jail Epstein was assigned a Jewish escort agency owner in for tax evasion as an anti suicide buddy. This fellow said he did not get the impression that Epstein was particularly intelligent and very interestingly that Epstein asked all kinds of questions about the escort business such as whether the hookers were beautiful and what they were paid. He also said Epstein was scared of all the other Pretty boring him being just a ChoMo and fraudster

  148. Anonymous[349] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    @CJ

    So if Barr the Elder was pushed out of Dalton by, say, March 1, 1974, he probably didn't have anything to do with hiring Epstein to start teaching there six months later.

    Anyway, Epstein wasn't Epstein! in 1974. He was just a groundskeeper's son, a nobody.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Barr was not pushed out of Dalton immediately. The NYT article explicitly said that although he resigned, he was going to continue as headmaster for the rest of the year, leaving on June 7. So he probably did hire Epstein, although it’s possible that he left the vacancy for the new headmaster to fill during the Summer.

  149. @Sean
    @Alden


    Maxwell’s indictment charges her only with procuring under age minors for use by Jeffrey Epstein, no one else
     
    Exactly. There was no one else. It was just Epstein 24/7 with his pathetic endowment making a pig of himself with acts such as being buttock to buttock (!) and trying to excite his jaded palate with younger and younger girls. In Miami he hardly ever penetrated them. Not a single one of those dozens of girls in all their visits saw any man but him at the Miami mansion, and none saw Maxwell. She was his entrée into society. All women marry their fathers and hers was a fraudster who caught the bus and left her holding the bag.

    Prince Andrew did nothing wrong, broke no laws with Virginia. From Virginia’s statements, He neither solicited her for, not paid her for prostitution sex. Maxwell and Epstein could be charged with pimping , procuring, arranging facilitating , transporting for prostitution and Maxwell with running a brothel for that incident.
     
    The offence would be pandering. I don't think having sex with the paid employee of a person's household opens them to a charge of running a brothel. But in any case there are reasons to doubt Andrew had sex with Guiffre, and she is proven to have told untruths about how old she was when she met Andrew. The Prince married a woman who was older than him and when he had an American girlfriend (actress Koo Stark) she was older than him too.... er, still is. He once asked out a friend of the Queen who was decades older than him. He was also rumoured to have gone gay for a time after his divorce.

    Andrew could have had 17 year old models and actresses had he been so inclined. Sixteen year old girls were appearing nude across the entire Page Three of the the most popular British Newspapers at the time. (Page Three made the Sun a cash cow for Rupert Murdoch, and is the basis of his empire). It would have raised eyebrows if he had flaunted it, but Andrew would have been quite safe legally bedding super hot 16 year old models in London if he had wanted to. So he goes to Florida, the land of statutory rape, and does it with a hard faced working girl?

    He has never went for the teen stuff. Guiffre lied about her age, for years she said she was 15 in the photo, but now admits she was at least 17, Guiffre tried to keep secret the depositions in which she accused the former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, now Dershowitz is publicizing the allegation against Barak as a way of showing that Guiffre was picking names out of a hat. Anyway, Giuffre's selling point was specific to Epstein's fetish for massage.

    By Giuffre's own account, when she was a 17 year old attendant in a changing room at Trump's resort (where her father was groundskeeper), Maxwell noticed her reading an anatomy book and on finding out Guiffre aspired to be one of the masseuses at the resort (Epstein had been banned by Trump for making a pass at a spa masseuse), Maxwell offered Guiffre a job as personal masseuse to Epstein. The therapists at Trump's spa are legit, they are also really good looking. Whether Guiffre took the Epstein offer because she thought with her looks she would never get a gig as a legit masseuse at good pay for the Trump spa, or because she is just a hard faced sex worker personality, I have no idea. Guiffre never mentioned Dershowitz until a tabloid journalist she was collaborating with on a book brought the name up.

    Replies: @Alden

    Please read Maxwell’s indictment, no pimping after 1997 when Virginia was 14 and had not yet met Maxwell Et al.

    Please read the prostitution laws of the UK which I did. Prostitution is technically legal, but all the ancillary activities such as running a brothel, arranging for prostitutes and customers to meet. and numerous ancillary activities are illegal Even kerb crawling or sex harassment of ordinary women in the hopes a man can find a cheap hooker is illegal. And prostitutes loitering in public or bars to find customers is illegal.

    Maxwell did all of these things in the UK. Her home met the definition of brothel. She brought or trafficked Virginia to the UK and arranged for Virginia to meet Andrew. But Maxwell has not been charged in America under UK prostitution laws because of what Virginia and Andrew did in Maxwell’s house in another country.

    The indictment and consequent prosecution ( if Maxwell lives long enough) have nothing to do with Virginia and Andrew in the UK.

    Different laws, different countries, years before Virginia met Maxwell and Epstein.

    • Replies: @Sean
    @Alden

    No, you read Maxwell’s indictment, and more carefully this time please. Ms Maxwell is charged with two counts of perjury for saying she unaware of Epstein abusing girls in depositions for the 2016 civil case with Guiffre which was settled out of court. I think Maxwell's lawyers will call Giuffre.

    In the aforementioned civil suit Giuffre was tripped up over her age. Moreover, she incautiously accused Ehud Barak of having sex with her; she tried to keep the deposition secret, but Dershowitz found out about and has been trumpeting the accusation against Barak recently.

    Maxwell is going to be convicted anyway, the Feds never lose. But by the end of this no one is going to take Guffre's word for her stories about Prince Andrew. For instance the one in the 2016 depositions about him banging 9 females (Giuffre and eight underage East European teen girls) at a time is obviously false. Giuffre may well end up being charged with perjury herself.

  150. @Bill Jones
    @Alden

    So being a Public Relations figurehead for a whorehouse is legal?

    Replies: @Alden

    You obviously didn’t read my post.

    Maxwell is charged with the crimes of enticing procuring grooming and trafficking under age minors some as young as 14 for sexual abuse by Jeffrey Epstein. I read the indictment. I summarized it. You can read the indictment too.

    Maybe you confused Florida prostitution laws with UK prostitution laws.

    The fact that Maxwell has been indicted for running a whore house proves what she did ik illegal and fits the legal definition of pimping pandering recruiting and trafficking. .

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    @Alden

    The PR figure surely was the Prince.

    (There's a line in there somewhere about "The Autist formerly known as Prince" but that's been awarded to The Red Prince, Harry.)

  151. @Art Deco
    @Alden

    Your standards are unrealistically high.

    I wasn't trying to get a date out of her in 1999, or at any other time.

    Replies: @Alden

    I knew a Miss Illinois when I was young. Compared to Virginia she was plain. Also knew a Miss California. Prettier than Miss Illinois about as pretty as Virginia in that picture.

    Some boomer and millennial men spent their youth looking at the air brushed heavily made up and more or less artificially created Play boy girls and never found a real woman to equal those artificial creatures. I’m not saying you’re one of them of course.

    I’m sure every girl and woman you’ve ever known is a drop dead dazzler. Such outstanding beauties every man turns around and stares. Such beauties they causes traffic jams and accidents when they go out in public.

    • Replies: @Sean
    @Alden


    I knew a Miss Illinois when I was young. Compared to Virginia she was plain. Also knew a Miss California. Prettier than Miss Illinois about as pretty as Virginia in that picture.
     
    The essential point is that her level of physical attractiveness is an issue because of her story of being supremely desirable to numerous world leaders-- Ehud Barak is merely one--who she says slept with HER as part of what she alleges was Epstein's crypto prostitution/ honeytrap racket. She is the origin of all this secret agent blackmail ofg VIPs crap that led to demands for Maxwell to be jailed. Are Weinstein's Judas Ewe assistants, that more than one of his victims said brought them in knowing what was going to happen, in jail? If the Feds want to get someone they frame charges so as to get them. After Epstein caught the bus they needed to convict Maxwell. Of course it is Giuffre assertions to the media that are responsible for Maxwell being in jail.

    I have heard wives and mothers older women with normal loving family lives who are sympathetic to all victims listen to Guiffre telling her stories, and remark how her looks are nothing special. I personally think there is has a shocking streak of 'commonness', a steeliness there. When young (before she became obese as Lombroso long ago noted prostitutes often do in later life) photos shows Guiffre had extremely broad shoulders and no waist. Girls from broken homes oft times end up with older men, it is to do with androgen receptors and the X Chromosome that they inherit almost unchanged from their philandering fathers. Maxwell is also rather broad shouldered and slim hipped.

    Guiffre's book manuscript was intended as one handed reading as misery memoir , (the Unhappy Hooker), but now she is trying to shake down Wexner and is trying to keep secret her original account and depositions. She claims to have brought Epstein to orgasm 7 (seven) times a day. She also said that on one occasion on Epstein's property in the Virgin islands. Prince Andrew (apparently channelling Champion the Wonder Horse) had group sex with her and 8 (eight) East European teenage girls. Andy the renegade stallion is a bit difficult to believe, and failure of any of those girls to come forward when there is serious money available speaks for itself. She is going on and on in the media about Andrew in an attempt to stay relevant. This is a woman who was refused permission by the courts to join the class action by Epstein's victims.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Art Deco
    @Alden

    You fancy you know what you're talking about. You don't.

  152. @Alden
    @Nathan

    There have been many interviews with investment and hedge fund managers who claim they never heard of Epstein’s fund. Of course they were in NYC offices glued to their computers while Jeffrey was flying between Florida, Europe and his Island.

    Replies: @Nathan

    That tends to support the idea that he wasn’t doing what he claimed. Hedge fund managers should know who the other big players are. Who are they trading and hedging with/against?

  153. @Alden
    @Art Deco

    I knew a Miss Illinois when I was young. Compared to Virginia she was plain. Also knew a Miss California. Prettier than Miss Illinois about as pretty as Virginia in that picture.

    Some boomer and millennial men spent their youth looking at the air brushed heavily made up and more or less artificially created Play boy girls and never found a real woman to equal those artificial creatures. I’m not saying you’re one of them of course.

    I’m sure every girl and woman you’ve ever known is a drop dead dazzler. Such outstanding beauties every man turns around and stares. Such beauties they causes traffic jams and accidents when they go out in public.

    Replies: @Sean, @Art Deco

    I knew a Miss Illinois when I was young. Compared to Virginia she was plain. Also knew a Miss California. Prettier than Miss Illinois about as pretty as Virginia in that picture.

    The essential point is that her level of physical attractiveness is an issue because of her story of being supremely desirable to numerous world leaders– Ehud Barak is merely one–who she says slept with HER as part of what she alleges was Epstein’s crypto prostitution/ honeytrap racket. She is the origin of all this secret agent blackmail ofg VIPs crap that led to demands for Maxwell to be jailed. Are Weinstein’s Judas Ewe assistants, that more than one of his victims said brought them in knowing what was going to happen, in jail? If the Feds want to get someone they frame charges so as to get them. After Epstein caught the bus they needed to convict Maxwell. Of course it is Giuffre assertions to the media that are responsible for Maxwell being in jail.

    I have heard wives and mothers older women with normal loving family lives who are sympathetic to all victims listen to Guiffre telling her stories, and remark how her looks are nothing special. I personally think there is has a shocking streak of ‘commonness’, a steeliness there. When young (before she became obese as Lombroso long ago noted prostitutes often do in later life) photos shows Guiffre had extremely broad shoulders and no waist. Girls from broken homes oft times end up with older men, it is to do with androgen receptors and the X Chromosome that they inherit almost unchanged from their philandering fathers. Maxwell is also rather broad shouldered and slim hipped.

    Guiffre’s book manuscript was intended as one handed reading as misery memoir , (the Unhappy Hooker), but now she is trying to shake down Wexner and is trying to keep secret her original account and depositions. She claims to have brought Epstein to orgasm 7 (seven) times a day. She also said that on one occasion on Epstein’s property in the Virgin islands. Prince Andrew (apparently channelling Champion the Wonder Horse) had group sex with her and 8 (eight) East European teenage girls. Andy the renegade stallion is a bit difficult to believe, and failure of any of those girls to come forward when there is serious money available speaks for itself. She is going on and on in the media about Andrew in an attempt to stay relevant. This is a woman who was refused permission by the courts to join the class action by Epstein’s victims.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Sean


    The essential point is that her level of physical attractiveness is an issue because of her story of being supremely desirable to numerous world leaders– Ehud Barak is merely one–who she says slept with HER as part of what she alleges was Epstein’s crypto prostitution/ honeytrap racket.
     
    Many fashion models, actresses who haven't "made it" yet and even some that have, porn performers, etc. engage in high end "escorting" catering to wealthy men, VIPs, politicians, etc. These women are much more attractive than Virginia, but they're all of legal age. If the allegations are true, the main appeal of someone like Virginia to VIPs who already have access to countless model caliber escorts would have been her being underage. Her relatively "common" appearance would have enhanced the thrill for some of these VIPs.

    Replies: @Sean

  154. @Alden
    @Bill Jones

    You obviously didn’t read my post.

    Maxwell is charged with the crimes of enticing procuring grooming and trafficking under age minors some as young as 14 for sexual abuse by Jeffrey Epstein. I read the indictment. I summarized it. You can read the indictment too.

    Maybe you confused Florida prostitution laws with UK prostitution laws.

    The fact that Maxwell has been indicted for running a whore house proves what she did ik illegal and fits the legal definition of pimping pandering recruiting and trafficking. .

    Replies: @Bill Jones

    The PR figure surely was the Prince.

    (There’s a line in there somewhere about “The Autist formerly known as Prince” but that’s been awarded to The Red Prince, Harry.)

  155. Anonymous[437] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean
    @Alden


    I knew a Miss Illinois when I was young. Compared to Virginia she was plain. Also knew a Miss California. Prettier than Miss Illinois about as pretty as Virginia in that picture.
     
    The essential point is that her level of physical attractiveness is an issue because of her story of being supremely desirable to numerous world leaders-- Ehud Barak is merely one--who she says slept with HER as part of what she alleges was Epstein's crypto prostitution/ honeytrap racket. She is the origin of all this secret agent blackmail ofg VIPs crap that led to demands for Maxwell to be jailed. Are Weinstein's Judas Ewe assistants, that more than one of his victims said brought them in knowing what was going to happen, in jail? If the Feds want to get someone they frame charges so as to get them. After Epstein caught the bus they needed to convict Maxwell. Of course it is Giuffre assertions to the media that are responsible for Maxwell being in jail.

    I have heard wives and mothers older women with normal loving family lives who are sympathetic to all victims listen to Guiffre telling her stories, and remark how her looks are nothing special. I personally think there is has a shocking streak of 'commonness', a steeliness there. When young (before she became obese as Lombroso long ago noted prostitutes often do in later life) photos shows Guiffre had extremely broad shoulders and no waist. Girls from broken homes oft times end up with older men, it is to do with androgen receptors and the X Chromosome that they inherit almost unchanged from their philandering fathers. Maxwell is also rather broad shouldered and slim hipped.

    Guiffre's book manuscript was intended as one handed reading as misery memoir , (the Unhappy Hooker), but now she is trying to shake down Wexner and is trying to keep secret her original account and depositions. She claims to have brought Epstein to orgasm 7 (seven) times a day. She also said that on one occasion on Epstein's property in the Virgin islands. Prince Andrew (apparently channelling Champion the Wonder Horse) had group sex with her and 8 (eight) East European teenage girls. Andy the renegade stallion is a bit difficult to believe, and failure of any of those girls to come forward when there is serious money available speaks for itself. She is going on and on in the media about Andrew in an attempt to stay relevant. This is a woman who was refused permission by the courts to join the class action by Epstein's victims.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    The essential point is that her level of physical attractiveness is an issue because of her story of being supremely desirable to numerous world leaders– Ehud Barak is merely one–who she says slept with HER as part of what she alleges was Epstein’s crypto prostitution/ honeytrap racket.

    Many fashion models, actresses who haven’t “made it” yet and even some that have, porn performers, etc. engage in high end “escorting” catering to wealthy men, VIPs, politicians, etc. These women are much more attractive than Virginia, but they’re all of legal age. If the allegations are true, the main appeal of someone like Virginia to VIPs who already have access to countless model caliber escorts would have been her being underage. Her relatively “common” appearance would have enhanced the thrill for some of these VIPs.

    • Replies: @Sean
    @Anonymous

    Very important person is not a synonym for paedophile. I wonder about men who think mere underageness in a legalist sense is the ultimate aphrodisiac (Giuffre was between 17 and 19 years old when she was a paid employee of Epstein). Her appeal to Epstein stemmed from his massage fetish, which is a rare one. She was sent all expenses paid to Thailand for a massage course there and ended up in Australia as so many free spirited/ mischievous young women do. There were no VIPs, she tried to keep secret that she originally accused Ehud Barak, but Dershowitz has just succeeded in publicizing this fact.

    https://youtu.be/5CeTCHrYQY0?t=41

  156. @Anonymous
    @Sean


    The essential point is that her level of physical attractiveness is an issue because of her story of being supremely desirable to numerous world leaders– Ehud Barak is merely one–who she says slept with HER as part of what she alleges was Epstein’s crypto prostitution/ honeytrap racket.
     
    Many fashion models, actresses who haven't "made it" yet and even some that have, porn performers, etc. engage in high end "escorting" catering to wealthy men, VIPs, politicians, etc. These women are much more attractive than Virginia, but they're all of legal age. If the allegations are true, the main appeal of someone like Virginia to VIPs who already have access to countless model caliber escorts would have been her being underage. Her relatively "common" appearance would have enhanced the thrill for some of these VIPs.

    Replies: @Sean

    Very important person is not a synonym for paedophile. I wonder about men who think mere underageness in a legalist sense is the ultimate aphrodisiac (Giuffre was between 17 and 19 years old when she was a paid employee of Epstein). Her appeal to Epstein stemmed from his massage fetish, which is a rare one. She was sent all expenses paid to Thailand for a massage course there and ended up in Australia as so many free spirited/ mischievous young women do. There were no VIPs, she tried to keep secret that she originally accused Ehud Barak, but Dershowitz has just succeeded in publicizing this fact.

  157. From what I recall of reading parts of Virginia Roberts memoir, she started out as a teenage prostitute at the age of 13 in Miami when she ran away from home and a man in a car picked her up and raped her, and then at some point he handed her over to another man who kept her as a kind of prisoner for several months as a sex slave, and then at some point in time she was restored to the care of her family and obtained a job at Trump’s resort in Palm Beach where her father worked, whereupon she was almost immediately pounced upon by Maxwell who took her and enslaved her again.

    She really had terrible bad luck during her high school years. Or was it bad judgment?

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Jonathan Mason

    Or is it fiction?

    Consider a novel possibility: Andrew posed for a picture with her and promptly forgot her.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    , @Johann Ricke
    @Jonathan Mason


    She really had terrible bad luck during her high school years. Or was it bad judgment?
     
    With few exceptions, people who get into prostitution aren't known for their scruples. This lack of scruples may, if they're worried about conventional society's views re that vocation, extend into weaving tall tales about how they got into it. These yarns will essentially smear anyone whose path crossed theirs, kin, associates and customers alike. With the exceptions of literal slavery and forcible abduction, not an issue with Epstein's girls, no one is forced into prostitution.

    Basically, most of these stories are Tawana Brawley-caliber fiction with better grammar and diction. And unlike the circumstances of the people Brawley targeted, there is a pot of tort suit gold at the end of this rainbow motivating all the literary creativity. If these people will sleep with complete strangers for money, what's a white lie or two to acquire millions of dollars in damages?

  158. Sean says:

    By her own account she ran away aged thirteen and lived for six months with an elderly pimp; yes, but she was back with her father by fourteen years old., She started work at Mar-a-Lago two years later and was seventeen years old when Maxwell offered her a job as personal masseuse to Jeffrey Epstein.

    This wasn’t Giuffre’s first rodeo, she knew what time it was. Giuffre was sleeping with Epstein’s bodyguard and getting paid, in addition to sharing the luxury lifestyle and international travel (which is the ultimate luxury for many people). She got millions from Maxwell in compensation, then tried to join the class action against Epstein for a double dip. She has had her cake,

  159. Sean says:
    @Alden
    @Sean

    Please read Maxwell’s indictment, no pimping after 1997 when Virginia was 14 and had not yet met Maxwell Et al.

    Please read the prostitution laws of the UK which I did. Prostitution is technically legal, but all the ancillary activities such as running a brothel, arranging for prostitutes and customers to meet. and numerous ancillary activities are illegal Even kerb crawling or sex harassment of ordinary women in the hopes a man can find a cheap hooker is illegal. And prostitutes loitering in public or bars to find customers is illegal.

    Maxwell did all of these things in the UK. Her home met the definition of brothel. She brought or trafficked Virginia to the UK and arranged for Virginia to meet Andrew. But Maxwell has not been charged in America under UK prostitution laws because of what Virginia and Andrew did in Maxwell’s house in another country.

    The indictment and consequent prosecution ( if Maxwell lives long enough) have nothing to do with Virginia and Andrew in the UK.

    Different laws, different countries, years before Virginia met Maxwell and Epstein.

    Replies: @Sean

    No, you read Maxwell’s indictment, and more carefully this time please. Ms Maxwell is charged with two counts of perjury for saying she unaware of Epstein abusing girls in depositions for the 2016 civil case with Guiffre which was settled out of court. I think Maxwell’s lawyers will call Giuffre.

    In the aforementioned civil suit Giuffre was tripped up over her age. Moreover, she incautiously accused Ehud Barak of having sex with her; she tried to keep the deposition secret, but Dershowitz found out about and has been trumpeting the accusation against Barak recently.

    Maxwell is going to be convicted anyway, the Feds never lose. But by the end of this no one is going to take Guffre’s word for her stories about Prince Andrew. For instance the one in the 2016 depositions about him banging 9 females (Giuffre and eight underage East European teen girls) at a time is obviously false. Giuffre may well end up being charged with perjury herself.

  160. @Sean
    @Steve Sailer

    I think you will find that well balanced women who listen to her story are the ones who remark her attractiveness was clearly never at the level her narrative implicitly requires. Giuffre was forced to concede she was 17 years old when she met Maxwell and began working for Epstein, not 15 as she originally claimed. Not getting a pass on her looks because she was a child appealing to deviants then.

    Her early account in sealed court documents of sex with numerous international politicians including a former president and two ex prime ministers that she tried to keep secret (one of those she named Mr. Dershowitz revealed last month to have been Ehud Barak) makes her looks an issue. If she was near beautiful her story might be easier to believe. Sadly, her credibility is zero, which is why none of the prosecutions of Epstein (like so many who plea bargained state charges he found himself a sitting duck for subsequent cast iron Federal indictments carrying a much longer sentence) dared use her as a witness.

    She would have tainted the entire case because a judge would be compelled to warn the jury of everything she said being unreliable. Believe me women on a jury would look at her and dismiss her as a fantasist. Maxwell is praying Giuffre will called by the prosecution, but they are not that stupid. The FBI work slow but sure, no one beats one of their cases. Maxwell will end up pleading guilty and do about five years in Club Fed.

    Replies: @Alden, @fitzhamilton

    I’ve seen lots of pictures of the type of women Randy Andy found acceptable, and Giuffre falls well within that set. She was cute enough for me to believe her story. His Highness is a hound dog, he seems to be bit indiscriminate in his taste (Guiffre is definitely more attractive than his wife for sure) and he obviously is not as much of a pedo as Epstein was himself. Most fellows prefer their girls well post pubescent after all, and I’m sure Epstein procured older girls for him with that in mind.

    It’s actually slightly astonishing that Andrew did not insist that they all be over 18, because if they had been he wouldn’t be in any trouble. One day less 18 this our regime does a sexual predator make, and Andy is obviously too dumb and reckless to have restrained himself. The arrogance, idiocy and smug assumption that he would get away with this is amusing.

    Thank God for the Revolution, that we do not have bow and scrape before this silly twat..

  161. @Alden
    @Art Deco

    I knew a Miss Illinois when I was young. Compared to Virginia she was plain. Also knew a Miss California. Prettier than Miss Illinois about as pretty as Virginia in that picture.

    Some boomer and millennial men spent their youth looking at the air brushed heavily made up and more or less artificially created Play boy girls and never found a real woman to equal those artificial creatures. I’m not saying you’re one of them of course.

    I’m sure every girl and woman you’ve ever known is a drop dead dazzler. Such outstanding beauties every man turns around and stares. Such beauties they causes traffic jams and accidents when they go out in public.

    Replies: @Sean, @Art Deco

    You fancy you know what you’re talking about. You don’t.

  162. @Jonathan Mason
    From what I recall of reading parts of Virginia Roberts memoir, she started out as a teenage prostitute at the age of 13 in Miami when she ran away from home and a man in a car picked her up and raped her, and then at some point he handed her over to another man who kept her as a kind of prisoner for several months as a sex slave, and then at some point in time she was restored to the care of her family and obtained a job at Trump's resort in Palm Beach where her father worked, whereupon she was almost immediately pounced upon by Maxwell who took her and enslaved her again.

    She really had terrible bad luck during her high school years. Or was it bad judgment?

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Johann Ricke

    Or is it fiction?

    Consider a novel possibility: Andrew posed for a picture with her and promptly forgot her.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @Art Deco

    To me Virginia Roberts memoir reads like extremely badly written fiction.

    Incidentally for those who cannot subject themselves to the torture of reading her pro's prose I would just like to say that she is quite categorical about her age in the memoir.

    For example she states quite clearly that she spent her sweet 16th birthday in the Virgin islands doing orgies. However it has later been shown that she did not get recruited by Maxwell to work for Epstein until she was 17.

    A bit of a faux pas, that.

    I also agree with a commenter below that those who end up in a career of prostitution nearly always concoct some kind of retrospective rationale later in life for how they got started. Even Fanny Hill.

  163. @Jonathan Mason
    From what I recall of reading parts of Virginia Roberts memoir, she started out as a teenage prostitute at the age of 13 in Miami when she ran away from home and a man in a car picked her up and raped her, and then at some point he handed her over to another man who kept her as a kind of prisoner for several months as a sex slave, and then at some point in time she was restored to the care of her family and obtained a job at Trump's resort in Palm Beach where her father worked, whereupon she was almost immediately pounced upon by Maxwell who took her and enslaved her again.

    She really had terrible bad luck during her high school years. Or was it bad judgment?

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Johann Ricke

    She really had terrible bad luck during her high school years. Or was it bad judgment?

    With few exceptions, people who get into prostitution aren’t known for their scruples. This lack of scruples may, if they’re worried about conventional society’s views re that vocation, extend into weaving tall tales about how they got into it. These yarns will essentially smear anyone whose path crossed theirs, kin, associates and customers alike. With the exceptions of literal slavery and forcible abduction, not an issue with Epstein’s girls, no one is forced into prostitution.

    Basically, most of these stories are Tawana Brawley-caliber fiction with better grammar and diction. And unlike the circumstances of the people Brawley targeted, there is a pot of tort suit gold at the end of this rainbow motivating all the literary creativity. If these people will sleep with complete strangers for money, what’s a white lie or two to acquire millions of dollars in damages?

    • Agree: Jonathan Mason
  164. @Art Deco
    @Jonathan Mason

    Or is it fiction?

    Consider a novel possibility: Andrew posed for a picture with her and promptly forgot her.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    To me Virginia Roberts memoir reads like extremely badly written fiction.

    Incidentally for those who cannot subject themselves to the torture of reading her pro’s prose I would just like to say that she is quite categorical about her age in the memoir.

    For example she states quite clearly that she spent her sweet 16th birthday in the Virgin islands doing orgies. However it has later been shown that she did not get recruited by Maxwell to work for Epstein until she was 17.

    A bit of a faux pas, that.

    I also agree with a commenter below that those who end up in a career of prostitution nearly always concoct some kind of retrospective rationale later in life for how they got started. Even Fanny Hill.

  165. The Lolita Island itself is very disappointing from an aesthetic point of view, these palm trees look too artificial, the place seems too windy, a vulgar looking swimming pool, some curious ugly and out of place blocky ‘temple’, a classless bedroom in the alleged Lolita Express. These modern elites have no style and class, or it must be the style of vulgar pretentiousness strangely mixed with infantilism. If you add to that the plain kind of vulgarity of the media and the public, the whole thing is not just boring, but smelling infantile piggishly, whatever that may be. One should wait for an artist to write a novel about it, no movies because these are also mostly vulgar and explicit, and infantile. An artist could lift the vulgar imagination of the public and the press, and the reality of elites to a higher plain, so that it will be a worthwhile, tasteful imaginative voyeuristic experience.

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