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Social Class by Race and Ethnicity
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Each category is mutually exclusive so there is no double counting (Jews may be of any race but all other groups are non-Jewish and Hispanics may be non-Jews of any race but the other racial groups are exclusively non-Hispanic). Social class is self-reported. It correlates with income, education, and occupational prestige but not perfectly so. Without further ado:

Whites are close to evenly split between lower/working and middle/upper. The Asian distribution is similar, albeit modestly shifted towards middle and away from working. Blacks, Hispanics, and American Indians are more than twice as likely to be lower/working as they are to be middle/upper. In contrast, just 1-in-6 Jews are lower/working.

It’s a good thing we’ve been conditioned to focus on perceived racial injustice to the near exclusion of everything else because focusing on class is anti-Semitic. You know the stereotypes about bankers and media moguls. We trust you condemn them as strongly as this blog does.

GSS variables used: CLASS, YEAR(2000-2018), RACECEN1(1)(2)(3)(4-10), HISPANIC(1)(2-50), RELIG(1-2,4-13)(3)

 
• Category: Culture/Society, Economics • Tags: Class, GSS 
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  1. Lowe says:

    Self reported? That seems useless.

    • Agree: Realist, Kratoklastes
    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
  2. Dr. Doom says:

    This is just an economic measure.

    Social Class to me is Classical Education and Self Discipline.

    You’d see things differently with those metrics.

  3. dfordoom says: • Website

    Social class is self-reported.

    And the survey is therefore entirely meaningless.

    If you relied on self-reporting you’d discover that 98% of American males are well above average drivers, and well above average when it comes to sexual prowess. You’d find that 98% of American women are well above average when it comes to being patient, kind, caring and unselfish.

    If you relied on self-reporting you’d also discover that 90% of prison inmates are entirely innocent. And that 98% of paranoid schizophrenics are actually entirely sane.

    When you see a survey based on self-reporting the correct thing to do is to drop it in the nearest convenient trash can.

    • Agree: Realist
    • LOL: animalogic
    • Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter
  4. Thomm says:

    This is what Ron Unz would look like if his IQ was actually 214 in reality :
    .

    See here for my investigative analysis of the subject :

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-109/#comment-4026618

    Make sure your ‘LOL’ quota is not depleted before proceeding.

  5. This graph shows why all the American Jews don’t just move to Israel. An organic society needs people to do the blue-collar work; you can’t build a country full of financiers, real estate developers, theoretical physicists, media company executives and other mental occupations with Jewish over-representation.

    • Replies: @SFG
  6. 128 says:

    This is useless, How do you classify Asians? Is a Yakut living in the US an Asian, what about a Lebanese? Or an East Indian?

    • Replies: @cutler
  7. neutral says:

    Further evidence that jews don’t work.

  8. 128 says:

    I hope the East Asian supremacist posters here (you know who you are right?) Would note that Chinese in Vancouver are heavily involved in the money laundering trade, buying shoebox apartments for 5 million in cash, and driving out working class and middle class people in the process, and illegal gangs, as well as recruitment of illegal labour, Chinese small business owners, from a lot of accounts, are also not quite that good as bosses, compared to the White Anglo Canadian bosses. Also in South East Asia, mainland Chinese have a reputation for being heavily involved in the drug trade, and for being all around boors in general.

    • Replies: @RSDB
    , @nebulafox
  9. SFG says:

    So how much of the 2% is in the 2% (in the economic sense)?

    14% of 2% is about 0.3%, so that’d be about one-sixth. Of course, self-reporting is shady (are the same percentages of blacks and whites really upper class?) and 3% of white gentiles call themselves ‘upper class’, so maybe one-tenth of self-reported ‘upper class’ people are Jewish.

    • Thanks: Audacious Epigone
  10. SFG says:
    @advancedatheist

    That and more people are shooting at you than once every hundred years in Pittsburgh.

  11. @dfordoom

    “If you relied on self-reporting you’d also discover that 90% of prison inmates are entirely innocent.”

    I doubt it. What you would most likely find would be about 50% who would say: “Yeah, I guess I’m guilty, BUT, I got a bad deal from those racist cops and prosecutors.”

    • Replies: @TheJester
  12. TheJester says:
    @Jim Bob Lassiter

    I once helped a friend teach a university course in a Federal Penitentiary. The warden warned us that almost every inmate we met would proffer that he was innocent … an innocent victim of something or another.

    He was right. Not one inmate we met introduced himself as guilty. My guess is that the inmates hoped we would say something positive about them to the warden in the idle hope that it might help soften their life in the penitentiary, help with their parole, etc. Worth a try, right? What is there to lose?

  13. RSDB says:
    @128

    you know who you are right?

    ?
    They well might, but I don’t.

  14. The question isn’t if that 13.7 is too much or just right or nothing to talk about, as in a meritocratic society, which is the best one can get, the average group IQ would have warranted the group’s increased presence at the top. The question is if this 13.7 is more than their IQ would have warranted, hinting and proving the jewish nepotism, in-group favoritism, ethnocentrism or whatever you want to call it.

  15. Twinkie says:

    The Asian distribution is similar, albeit modestly shifted towards middle and away from working.

    This doesn’t jive well with the fact that “Asians” in America today have the greatest income disparity within the grouping (though I understand that both can be true statistically).

    Self-identification of classes is notoriously unreliable.

    • Thanks: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
  16. @Lowe

    Has anyone ever figured out the actual mean and standard deviation for the income and wealth of Jews?

    Or is that forbidden knowledge?

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  17. @Dr. Doom

    Indeed, income is only one part of overall quality of life. I’ve spent enough time in depressed old coal towns where everyone’s tiny lawns are still mowed, the streets are still clean, kids are happily playing on the sidewalk, and a third of the houses look abandoned but none of the windows are broken. I’ve also been in Philadelphia “ghettos” where every other house has a Mercedes, but there are piles of trash on every block.

    Is this survey really just an economic measure as you say it is? I wonder what “class” the inhabitants of both places would consider themselves. For that matter, I wonder what kind of person self-identifies as “lower” class. I guess someone with either an uncommonly honest soul, or an an uncommonly broken one.

  18. @Twinkie

    The category “Asian” is virtually meaningless as it includes Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese and also Indonesians, Thais, Burmese, etc and maybe Indians and Pakistanis too.

    If the group of Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese were split out, it would probably look more like the Jewish category.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    , @Twinkie
  19. @TheJester

    I won’t dispute your second hand account of it as I very limited second hand exposure to Fed corrections. I’ll just point out that my exposure to county lock ups and a state system doesn’t bear that out.

  20. @Dr. Doom

    Agree – and it’s only in America that ‘social class’ assumed to be directly reflective of disposable income (or more accurately, access to credit).

    In the Anglophone West, ‘class’ says things about culture, breeding and bearing – not about income, wealth, living conditions, or political affiliation. So ‘middle class’ in the Western Anglophone world starts at about the top decile (by a combination of meritocratic education and lineage).

    That ‘original’ definition is on the wane nowadays, and is being replaced by the Yanklish version. So along with education, it’s yet another long-standing and historically quasi-reliable human-filtering mechanism that has been fucked by American status-obsession and credentialism.

    That said: it’s a good thing that American status-obsession has fucked English notions of class, because those were always mostly bollocks. English ‘class’ is a very very weak signal – from Working Class Tories all the way to Tim Nice-but-dim – because most of the time it’s a series of affectations specifically designed to hide the individual’s underlying nature. (If anything, Tim Nice-but-dim is honestly middle class because he’s so stupid that he’s incapable of guile).

    I am about 5× more allergic to completely-unremarkable people who put on (Anglophone Western) middle class airs, than I am to a face-tattooed troglodyte mongrel from the Submerged Tenth Fifth.

    I actively ‘signal’ hostility to people who try to signal class at me: from actively preferring $2.50/litre Aldi boxed wine (which horrifies soi disant middle class wine wankers), to only buying Chinese-sourced plain-brand power tools (which horrifies equally-status-obsessed working class “tradies”).

    Even my new carbon bike frame is a no-decal Chinese unbranded black jobbie that I got for $700 (delivered) from AliExpress (it’s an exact knock-off of a €3000 BMC TeamMachine frame), and I never ever wear lycra as an outer garment (which horrifies MAMILs).

    Misanthropy is fun, and costs way less than trying to impress people that you wouldn’t piss on if they were on fire.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  21. @Hypnotoad666

    the actual mean and standard deviation for the income and wealth of Jews

    The standard deviation would be pretty large because the UltraHeebs have levels of welfare dependency that make inner-city dindus look like exemplars of the Protestant Work Ethic.

    Like all things Heeb, the income and wealth numbers will be fudged; (((they))) know they can get away with it because most people don’t bother to check.

    (Best example: people whose wealth is entirely in their own company’s stock, who usually also have massive levels of personal debt, coupled with weird interrelationships with others who are similarly situated. Damage to the stock price can ruin them in a day. Call it the George Herscu Effect: if that name means nothing to you, it’s instructive to look it up).

    Semi-related: Vox Day is basically a midwit comic-book guy who has a reasonable[1] talent for snark and burn… but the one service he did to humanity was to destroy the myth of a JewIQ of 115, by the simple expedient of pointing out the source of the claim.

    I hadn’t even checked the claim myself – mostly because I’m largely indifferent to measures of central tendency of groupwise IQ, because my prior is that IQ is not symmetrically-distributed and so forcing it to an arbitrary N(100,15) is a bad idea.

    That prior happens because different components of intelligence are correlated, and so combinations of intelligence traits will not be multinomial. This means that the asymptotic distribution of linear combinations of traits will not be multivariate normal.

    Anyhow… as far as JewIQ goes, all I knew was that the claim wasn’t congruent with my experience of having studied with, and taught, some Red Sea Pedestrians: nobody above the median in my Honours year identified as an RSP, and the most RSPish kiddie finished last in the class. Of the kids I taught, the RSPs were unexceptional – albeit that this was a subject where a kiddie had to be well inside the top 5% of high school graduates to gain entry to the degree, and had to have survived until 3rd year to be in my class.

    [1] compared to the internet as a whole. Compared to /b/ and key subsets of Anon, Vox Day is an also-ran.

  22. nebulafox says:
    @128

    The history of mainland Chinese emigration to the US is too diverse to generalize, so I will point out another example. There’s been a major organized crime problem in Vietnamese communities in the US that you do not see with “ice Asians”. Part of that might be HBD, but part of that is also that most Taiwanese and Korean immigrants were either lower middle class types displaced by industrialization or professionals seeking better lives for their kids. Most non-Chinese Vietnamese were peasants, and peasant dominated immigrant groups (Irish, Italians, Mexicans, Chinese in 1800s Malaysia) plopped into urban areas for thr first time typically means large amounts of organized crime until, with luck and effort, the upward mobility/assimilation train gets rolling.

    It is worth pointing that as much as organized crime sucks, it bears no resemblance to the institutionalized social breakdown normative to the black poor over the last half century, and amongst increasing amounts of rural poor whites, too.

    (Khmers have a lot of problems, but in fairness, anybody over a certain age in that ethnic group has a really hard life and often deals with severe PTSD. Their kids often do better.)

    • Replies: @ATBOTL
    , @Twinkie
  23. nebulafox says:
    @Chrisnonymous

    Indians and Chinese have less in common than Scots do with Russians.

    Living in Asia and watching the various ethnic stereotypes, disdain, and occasional (admittedly often fragile and superficial) hatred between different races here is a wonderful way to inoculate your kids against any potential belief in intersectionality or white guilt.

  24. @Kratoklastes

    “Vox Day is a mid wit comic book guy…”

    Why, how dare you say such a thing about The Most Smartest Man In The Universe! You must be a gamma! A lowly gamma, with your gamma tells and whatnot! Why, even as I’m typing this, Vox Day is reading three different books simultaneously in three different languages, while translating a fourth into a language of his own invention! And you’re just a gamma!

    Actually, the guy is capable of saying some pretty interesting things. It’s just that his complete lack of self-awareness is rather… endearing.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  25. nebulafox says:
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    I agree with PhysicistDave: Vox is a sleep inducing pompous blowhard who verrrrrry occasionally makes an incisive point.

  26. Twinkie says:
    @Chrisnonymous

    If the group of Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese were split out, it would probably look more like the Jewish category.

    No. The sub-category that beats everyone is Indian. Their immigration is highly selected educationally, with concomitantly very high median income.

  27. Twinkie says:
    @Kratoklastes

    Don’t signal – high or low. Just use what you like and works for you. Be authentic.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @iffen
  28. @nebulafox

    Well, anybody who’s got their own publishing house must be doing at least a few things right. My guess is he doesn’t even like comic books, I just take him at his word about building independent dissident platforms and getting one’s finger into as many pies as possible. I think he’s right about that, and he’s having some success, which is encouraging. As for his being a blowhard, true, but sometimes you have to be overbearing in order to get big things done. Personally I’ve always hated giving orders and issuing decrees, but sometimes it’s just the necessary thing, and it soothes your conscience if you’re wearing a silly Napoleon hat while you do it. Die Verfremdungseffekt.

    But yes, he does have Ignatius Reilly Syndrome. I just hope he really knows something about Trump that I can’t detect, because all I see is the Hindenburg crashing and burning, with all 24 volumes of The Encyclopedia of Missed Opportunities and Last Chances on board, going up in flames.

  29. cutler says:
    @128

    People whose ancestral origins are in Asia.

  30. @TheJester

    “Prison informing” is a virtual business inside. No one with any sense should admit that the sun is hot.

  31. Thomm says:

    Even a chart like this does not account for many variables (such as the fact that the oldest groups, like Filipinos and Japanese, have more half-whites than full-blooded members in the grouping), but the variance as measured is very high :

    Hence, the ‘median’ Asian household income is a useless measure. There is also no clear pattern of East Asians, Southeast Asians, or South Asians being rich or poor relative to each other, since each of those three have subgroups that are high as well as low.

    The same is true for whites, due to the bimodal distribution that I have mentioned in the past, where 80% are functional and nearly flawless, and all the flaws concentrate into the other 20% that is not on a continuum with the normal 80%. But that is another topic.

    Since at least 30% of second-gen Asian-Americans outmarry, the blur in the boundary gets more and more complicated. Most out-marry with whites, but Filipinos marry Mexicans with some frequency as well (since Filipinos have some ‘Hispanic’ heritage).

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  32. iffen says:
    @Twinkie

    Let it all hang out.

  33. ATBOTL says:
    @nebulafox

    Irrelevant. Chinese are a problem because they displace whites. Stop trying to change the subject to Southeast Asians and crime.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  34. Twinkie says:
    @Thomm

    Even a chart like this does not account for many variables

    The primary variable driving the income variance among Asian groups is the immigration selectivity. It is EXTREMELY high for Indians (72% of Indians in America born overseas have bachelor’s degrees and 40% have graduate degrees) and much more modest for, say, Koreans (52% and 20% respectively). Indeed, the Indian diaspora in the U.S. is far more highly educated than the general public in India while the Korean diaspora is less educated than their counterparts back home.

    The comparable numbers are 30% and 11%, respectively, for the general public among Americans.

    Despite the very high educational differential in favor of Indians, however, they display the lowest assimilation index among the major Asian immigrant groups, more akin to Hispanic migrants from Mexico and El Salvador than groups such as Filipinos, Vietnamese, and Koreans.

    • Thanks: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @Thomm
    , @Audacious Epigone
  35. Twinkie says:
    @ATBOTL

    Chinese are a problem because they displace whites.

    I don’t know what it’s like for you or where you live, but where I live the primary displacement is that by Indians of whites and East Asians, both residentially and in the tech/contracting fields.

    Although I am no fan of the Chinese, I do think that Chinese immigration will decline dramatically over the next decade or so as the quality of life in Chinese tier-one cities increase and exceed that of our own cities. That was certainly the case of earlier Japanese and Korean immigration cohorts.

    Already 90+% of Chinese foreign students in America return to China, rather than try to stay in the U.S.

    Indian immigration, without any political barriers, will continue to increase for the foreseeable future, because the quality of life in India for those with portable job skills is unlikely to increase dramatically anytime soon and because they seem to be sought out by American tech companies.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  36. Twinkie says:
    @nebulafox

    It is worth pointing that as much as organized crime sucks, it bears no resemblance to the institutionalized social breakdown normative to the black poor over the last half century, and amongst increasing amounts of rural poor whites, too.

    I used to work on transnational organized crime years ago… before 9/11.

    Vietnamese gangs could be extremely brutal, but they were tiny potatoes in the overall scheme of things. Their scale, reach, and financial dominance pale in comparison to the drug cartels from the south of the border.

    Talking about SE Asian gangs while blacks burn our cities, murder people, and rape women daily and while Hispanic gangs and cartel franchises saturate our country with narcotics and turf-wars is silly.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  37. Thomm says:
    @Twinkie

    The primary variable driving the income variance among Asian groups is the immigration selectivity.

    But the data includes both foreign-born and US-born members of the community. While some groups are newer and may have a higher percentage of foreign-born adults, I doubt it is a supermajority of any major Asian-American group by 2020. At some point, 2nd-gen adults become numerous, which again is proven by the intermarriage data.

    Assimilation : I would have to see how such an index is calculated. I suspect that it merely measures the ‘difference’ from the domestic median. Hence, if a community has a low divorce rate vs. the high divorce rate among Americans, that actually penalizes that particular community’s ‘assimilation index’ in your table, even though a low rate of divorce is obviously an unequivocal good. Same for single motherhood. If having a super low rate of single motherhood relative to the domestic population means ‘low assimilation’, the index is obviously poorly designed.

    I suspect that if a group’s income is 50% higher than the median, the assimilation score is penalized just as if it were 50% lower than the median, since the ‘difference is large’.

    Assimilation obviously needs much more study. Plus, only the US-born group of each (2nd gen and later) matters, since the foreign-born groups eventually die off and are thus temporary visitors.

    Plus, it is weird that in your chart, even Canada is just 50%, and is barely higher than the Philippines. That makes no sense. Canadians are the most similar people to Americans, and one can’t even easily tell if someone is Canadian until they say ‘aboot’.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  38. nebulafox says:
    @Twinkie

    I used to think that keeping a lid on the ghettos in the post-crack era was a nuisance, but relatively straightforward and second tier compared to the problems the cartels could cause. Ghettos would become more violent versions of reservations that liberals would occasionally beat their breasts over, but would otherwise be ignored and left to fester. This partially betrays my age, as I have no memory of the crack era, let alone the long hot summers.

    Needless to say, recent events have led me to reassess that. I still think demographics indicate that long term, the cartels will be more of a problem even if blacks are hijacking the short term politics.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  39. Twinkie says:
    @nebulafox

    Needless to say, recent events have led me to reassess that. I still think demographics indicate that long term, the cartels will be more of a problem even if blacks are hijacking the short term politics.

    As is often the case, you are right on the money. This is my assessment as well.

    I really think that the current black-led violence is the death throes of the political power of the black demographic in the U.S. Black fertility in America is low and their human capital is unimpressive, to say the least. What is the basis for their political might today, but white liberal posturing and white conservative tolerance? You can’t count on such ephemeral bases for political power.

    On the other hand, the Hispanic share of the population has risen dramatically in the past several decades and will continue to rise due to both immigration and high fertility (I am aware that even Hispanic fertility declines in America, but it is still higher than that of whites).

    And I also think that as their share of the population in some of the large states increase (California, Texas, Arizona, etc.), their political power will increase, and my concern is that such a rise will be intermixed with cartelization of the economy in those areas.

  40. nebulafox says:
    @Twinkie

    > As is often the case, you are right on the money.

    Thanks. Coming from you, that means a lot. I’ve met foreigners who think the US is 1/3rd black. It’s 13%, about the same as ethnic bumis (the resident “problem minority”, *very* relatively speaking) in Singapore.

    I don’t think blacks were ever that politically powerful: their status relies solely on their ability to sway white opinion to their side. In the 1950s, that worked, because much of the white populace was getting genuinely disgusted with Jim Crow and the KKK. Even if you were “racist” by today’s standards, that didn’t mean you viewed lynching as a fun event to take the kids and some BBQ out for like your grandparents might have. In the 1980s, that ceased to work, at least as much, because the white populace was getting really annoyed with urban crime that liberal judges refused to do anything about.

    Nowadays, things are more complex because the US is a lot less white, but the fundamental issue remains invariant.

  41. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Twinkie

    I really think that the current black-led violence is the death throes of the political power of the black demographic in the U.S.

    Blacks are to a considerable extent just being used as foot soldiers in an ideological war that isn’t about them at all.

  42. Twinkie says:
    @nebulafox

    I’ve met foreigners who think the US is 1/3rd black.

    A lot of blacks in America think that blacks are the majority or plurality in the U.S.

    And even many whites overestimate the percentage of blacks in the U.S.

  43. Twinkie says:
    @Thomm

    But the data includes both foreign-born and US-born members of the community. While some groups are newer and may have a higher percentage of foreign-born adults, I doubt it is a supermajority of any major Asian-American group by 2020.

    A large majority of Asians in the U.S. are foreign-born or born to parents from overseas. That is especially so for late-arriving groups such as Indians (who were only a tiny fraction of “Asians” in America until very recently, but are now close to a quarter). And the educational selectivity of the immigrants varies tremendously – that’s why there are “odd” results – immigrants from backward countries such as India and the Philippines far out-earn those from advanced countries such as Japan and Korea – because the former are far more educationally selected than are the latter.

    Assimilation : I would have to see how such an index is calculated.

    The graph is from the long-running study on immigrant assimilation by the Manhattan Institute and is an index that amalgamates three axes of economic assimilation, cultural assimilation, and civic assimilation. See: https://media4.manhattan-institute.org/pdf/cr_76.pdf

    Indians have particularly low cultural and civic assimilation indices among major Asian immigrant groups.

    Plus, it is weird that in your chart, even Canada is just 50%, and is barely higher than the Philippines. That makes no sense. Canadians are the most similar people to Americans, and one can’t even easily tell if someone is Canadian until they say ‘aboot’.

    The chart shows an index, not assimilation percentage. The Canadian score suffers, because Canadian immigrants have very low civic engagement despite their perfect cultural assimilation. They come here to make money – they don’t become American citizens or serve in the military, even though they are culturally identical to Americans.

    • Thanks: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @Thomm
  44. Thomm says:
    @Twinkie

    Thanks for the report.

    While is good that someone did a study on this important subject, there are major flaws in the metrics.

    i) ‘Civic Engagement’ : It shows immigrants from Afghanistan as very high, and Canadians as very low. That can’t be right, even if Canadians who come here never run for office, etc. I can’t imagine Canadian voter turnout in the US is low, since US elections take up huge mindshare in Canada (Canadians are overwhelmingly pro-Democrat).

    The only criteria are ‘military service’ and ‘citizenship’. Of course Afghans will convert to US citizenship than anyone from a similarly wealthy country like Canada or Australia.

    ii) ‘Economic Engagement’ : As I suspected, since it is an index, the maximum that a group can score is 100. About half of the groups are at 100, since they are at or above the household income of the domestic population.

    Hence, a community that makes 101% of the domestic average gets the same score as a community that makes 200%. I don’t think that is right, as there is no ‘reward’ for outperforming. The index should center at 50, so that all the scores currently at 100 become numbers between 51 and 100. An economic index with half of the communities are saturated at 100 obviously does not make sense.

    iii) ‘Cultural Engagement’ : This one is the weirdest. It, too, merely measures similarity to the domestic average, including marital status. Since America has 41% out-of-wedlock birthrates and a 50% divorce rate, a community that is much lower on those fronts is not rewarded. If a community is better-behaved than the average, that should count.

    Separately, even Saudi Arabia has a score above 80 on the cultural index, while Poland is only 62. That can’t be right. The criteria chosen fall into question, to say the least.

    On top of that, the report is almost 10 years old, so it is a bit outdated. The 2020 numbers could be very different for newer groups, since more 2nd-gen people have become adults in 2020 vs. 2010.

    Better metrics and more recent research are needed.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  45. TheJester says:
    @Jim Bob Lassiter

    Mine is a first-hand account. I had the direct experience with multiple inmates. If you are basing your account on hear-say, it’s a second-hand account. If I had been simply relating the warden’s insight, it would be a second-hand account.

    And your first-hand exposure to county lockups and a state system is …?

    We need to keep the comments in the Unz Review honest.

  46. @Kratoklastes

    Vox Day is basically a midwit comic-book guy who has a reasonable[1] talent for snark and burn

    And he really, really hates it when someone is in a position to prove him wrong.  About anything.  He always has to be the smartest guy in the room, and he is quick to censor and ban anyone who is about to prove otherwise (I’ve seen this happen a bunch of times).  Or even anyone who doesn’t accept his claims at face value; I once saw him ban a guy whose offense was to link to papers showing that Vox’s position was not supported by the evidence.  It’s a real pity that I didn’t snapshot that discussion thread before it was all purged.

    I respect his accomplishments in platform-building and publishing and writing, but the guy’s ego is the size of the Matterhorn.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  47. Twinkie says:
    @Thomm

    It shows immigrants from Afghanistan as very high, and Canadians as very low. That can’t be right

    Note that Afghans are extremely few in number compared to Canadians. The utility of comparing an extremely low number group (which is likely highly selected) and a very high number group is not good. That is why the survey is most useful in comparing the major immigrant groups.

    Of course Afghans will convert to US citizenship than anyone from a similarly wealthy country like Canada or Australia.

    Wealth is not the issue. South Korea is a highly developed, wealthy country, yet Korean immigrants acquire citizenship and serve in the military in high numbers. What this proxy measures is the commitment to being a part of the citizenry and bearing one of its costs/responsibilities.

    since it is an index, the maximum that a group can score is 100. About half of the groups are at 100, since they are at or above the household income of the domestic population.

    Hence, a community that makes 101% of the domestic average gets the same score as a community that makes 200%. I don’t think that is right, as there is no ‘reward’ for outperforming. The index should center at 50, so that all the scores currently at 100 become numbers between 51 and 100. An economic index with half of the communities are saturated at 100 obviously does not make sense.

    Read the methodology again. Economic assimilation is not about making a lot of money or “over-performing” – it uses proxies such as earned income, labor participation, unemployment, rank of income within the industry/profession of choice, education attainment, and home ownership. What it measures is a sense of broad and widely shared participation in the economy. A group that, for example, sends lots of doctors to the U.S. might have an extremely high average income, but that doesn’t mean that the group participated extensively across the economy.

    It, too, merely measures similarity to the domestic average, including marital status. Since America has 41% out-of-wedlock birthrates and a 50% divorce rate, a community that is much lower on those fronts is not rewarded. If a community is better-behaved than the average, that should count.

    Although marital status and number of children are factored, the first two items that are used to measure cultural assimilation are English proficiency and intermarriage (with natives).

    On top of that, the report is almost 10 years old, so it is a bit outdated. The 2020 numbers could be very different for newer groups, since more 2nd-gen people have become adults in 2020 vs. 2010.

    This study has been ongoing for some years and the results haven’t changed much (except the assimilation index of the recent Cuban immigrants cratering).

    Better metrics and more recent research are needed.

    We can always use more and better data and analyses, but this is the best, most comprehensive, and most objective measure of assimilation we have seen yet. Feel free to suggest an alternative if you disagree.

  48. nebulafox says:
    @Twinkie

    Late, so I don’t know if you’ll see this, but this is interesting. Don’t suppose you know anything more specialized about it?

    https://www.ozy.com/the-new-and-the-next/the-next-el-chapo-might-strike-your-smartphone-and-bank/273903/

    I always associated cyber stuff and related white collar crime with the Russians because you’ll find a depressing amount of guys with STEM 0r economics doctorates working for Russian organized crime. To put it bluntly, I didn’t think Mexican and Central American criminal organizations had the intellectual firepower to dabble into this, even if they weren’t making a fortune from drugs anyway. Like the Sicilians before them, it is mostly peasants engaging in blue collar crime: just with a lot more state power and potential deadliness to American social stability.

    But that might have been an outdated presumption. The level of skill it takes to engage in serious levels of e-crime has gone down. You can find people who know their way around JavaScript pretty much anywhere in the world these days, and the web is a lot more integral to daily existence than it was 20 years ago. Online crime has become more democratic: so the cartels can choose to diversify, if they want.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  49. nebulafox says:
    @Mr. Rational

    You GAMMA! How dare you?! 😉

  50. Twinkie says:
    @nebulafox

    But that might have been an outdated presumption.

    Indeed. First of all, Latin American cartels have always been very interested in banks – it’s one of the best ways to launder money.

    Second, although drug cartels usually have a very tight core leadership group that shares kinship and regional ties, they are increasingly reliant on hired expertise in the global criminal and gray markets for layers of “tech support” that have grown enormously around their core business of trafficking narcotics.

    Much has stayed the same, but much has changed.

  51. @Jim Bob Lassiter

    My work (in another life) put me into frequent contact with virtually all the various elements of a state’s criminal justice and corrections systems. I accumulated lots of both first and second hand experience in that world. I have no dishonest schemes in the works here.

  52. @Twinkie

    That Filipinos are on average as assimilated as Canadians is remarkable.

  53. @Twinkie

    Instead of political barriers, there is bi-partisan political encouragement. Mike Lee, Ro Khanna, and everyone in between is in lockstep on this.

  54. @nebulafox

    Foreigners? The GSS asked respondents what percentage of the US population was black in the year 2000. The average (mean) response was 31% and the mode was 20%. They loom large in Americans’ minds.

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