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If at first you don’t succeed, try try again:

CNN on Tuesday settled a defamation lawsuit filed by Covington Catholic High School student Nick Sandmann over its botched coverage of a viral confrontation with a Native American elder that had portrayed the Kentucky teen as the aggressor.

Fox 19 first reported that CNN settled with Sandmann for an undisclosed amount. The $250 million defamation suit sought damages for the “emotional distress Nicholas and his family suffered” in the fallout of the network’s reporting.

A lawyer for Sandmann declined to comment on the settlement but confirmed to Fox News that lawsuits against The Washington Post and NBC were ongoing. Fox 19 also reported that Sandmann attorney L. Lin Wood told the judge they planned to sue media company Gannett, the publisher of the Cincinnati Enquirer among other newspapers, within 60 days. Gannett did not immediately comment either.

There is presumably a non-disclosure agreement in play that will keep the settled amount private. If it’s merely 2% of what Sandmann’s family asked for, Nick is set for life.

This is the dissident’s answer to virtual mobbing, canceling, and doxing. This is especially true for private persons as they are accorded greater protection under the law than public figures are. The targeted harassment involved in these things invariably includes threats of violence and often even death from scores of drive-bys. Given the nature of the harassment, the threats are often specific and potentially actionable.

To those who know someone or who are themselves at the center of such a firestorm, document everything. Screen shots, video recording, URL capture–everything. This renders the source(s) initiating the harassment potentially liable for enormous damages.

Going to trial means discovery. There is nothing corporate media and the journalists and reporters in their employ want less than for wronged parties to be able to sift through all their DMs, emails, text messages, etc. And so, like CNN, many will settle.

 
• Category: Culture/Society • Tags: Media Bias 
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  1. “Going to trial means discovery. There is nothing corporate media and the journalists and reporters in their employ want less than for wronged parties to be able to sift through all their DMs, emails, text messages, etc. And so, like CNN, many will settle.”

    This is exactly what makes the news of settlement disappointing, and the likelihood of the settlement being much greater than 2% (although I know that wasn’t your final answer).

    I can’t really blame the Sandmann’s for settling, disappointed though I am.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    True, from our perspective discovery and its fallout (yes, I know it's supposed to remain private, but that doesn't mean what spawns as a result of it will be private!) would be more devastating, but this does create a chilling effect, and that's not nothing.
    , @res
    Once they have settled one case (presumably they are left both set for life and with a stronger position against the rest) perhaps they will be more inclined to take the others to trial? One possible benefit of separate cases.
  2. As opprobrious as CNN is, the worst demon spawn is state and public media – you are required to pay for the propaganda that is made against you.

    Deustche Welle has put out stuff that made me furious before. And I am not even German, nor am I paying for it. These types of organizations – anything that requires taxes or a fee that is levied on you without your choice – are evil incarnate, and they need to be ended.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    "these types of organizations – anything that requires taxes or a fee that is levied on you without your choice – are evil incarnate, and they need to be ended."

    Yes, but don't assume that their private replacements will be any better.

    (Intelligent Dasein - it was because it was a national broadcast, setting the mob onto a child and a private citizen. Yes, things just as bad happen to lots of people, but they don't all end up publicly smeared like that. The settlement is also an admission of guilt, de facto if not de jure. Not all settlements are like that of course.)

  3. If it’s merely 2% of what Sandmann’s family asked for, Nick is set for life.

    $5m (probably half that after lawyers have wet their beak) isn’t enough to be ‘set for life’.

    $5m is the wealth equivalent of the cap-and-ball Colt in Steve Earle’s “The Devil’s Right Hand“… it’s enough to

    gitcha into trouble but it cain’t gitcha out.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    It's standard for the lawyer's cut to be one-third. Let's say for simplicity's sake, Sandmann gets $3 million. A measly 2.5% return is $75k a year without ever having to touch the principal. That's one hell of a trust fund he's just created for himself.
  4. @MikeatMikedotMike
    "Going to trial means discovery. There is nothing corporate media and the journalists and reporters in their employ want less than for wronged parties to be able to sift through all their DMs, emails, text messages, etc. And so, like CNN, many will settle."

    This is exactly what makes the news of settlement disappointing, and the likelihood of the settlement being much greater than 2% (although I know that wasn't your final answer).

    I can't really blame the Sandmann's for settling, disappointed though I am.

    True, from our perspective discovery and its fallout (yes, I know it’s supposed to remain private, but that doesn’t mean what spawns as a result of it will be private!) would be more devastating, but this does create a chilling effect, and that’s not nothing.

  5. @Kratoklastes

    If it’s merely 2% of what Sandmann’s family asked for, Nick is set for life.
     
    $5m (probably half that after lawyers have wet their beak) isn't enough to be 'set for life'.

    $5m is the wealth equivalent of the cap-and-ball Colt in Steve Earle's "The Devil's Right Hand"... it's enough to

    gitcha into trouble but it cain't gitcha out.
     

    It’s standard for the lawyer’s cut to be one-third. Let’s say for simplicity’s sake, Sandmann gets $3 million. A measly 2.5% return is $75k a year without ever having to touch the principal. That’s one hell of a trust fund he’s just created for himself.

  6. I had completely forgotten about this incident, and I wish it could have stayed that way.

    What I find unseemly here is that this kid endured nothing more—and, in fact, considerably less—than what many of us have been experiencing, year in and year out, for much of our lives, only there was no CNN camera around to record it. Taking such a payout is dishonorable. If getting trashed by CNN for a few days is all it takes to garner a winning lottery ticket, who wouldn’t sign up for that? Where is the injury here?

    The ability of anybody to bring and to win such suites is a far worse commentary on the state of our society than anything CNN did. It is part and parcel of the whole culture of victimhood, of making capital out of real or imagined offenses in a land where everybody lives as if they’re on a game show all the time. It is not praiseworthy, it is just adding to the cynicism and degradation.

    • Replies: @baythoven
    My first thought was of Der Sandmann, wishing he would sprinkle some of his stuff on me, as I suffer from insomnia.

    That aside, I agree with you completely.
    , @getaclue
    ? Are you serious? They slimed a 15 year old with lies and tried to ruin him for life. In your world he shouldn't have any recourse against them because you think your "enduring" worse? "Who wouldn't sign up for that"? -- to be the subject of National Mainslime Media derision and hatred and tagged as a smirking racist for life by these lying creeps who call themselves "Journalists" and are nothing more than NWO Globalist propagandists? You're kidding or you work for CNN?
    , @Willem
    Agreed. A few years ago FAIR ran an article with tge same points that you raised. They called the phenomenon perserverance porn, which I think is the right term.

    See: https://fair.org/home/medias-grim-addiction-to-perseverance-porn/
    , @Athletic and Whitesplosive
    People wonder why the right's been losing, with totally useless people like this on "our side"? An unambiguoisly evil organization had to tacitly admit wrongdoing and give a big payout to one of our allies, but still you bitch and whine about it somehow being "wrong". You will never contribute ANYTHING of value, because you can't appreciate the good fortune of an ally without wanting to spite him, you really don't care about winning and just want to bitch.

    Yeah, a teenager was smeared and almost ruined for life by the minions of Satan, but I've been through worse, so I'm not happy, no, I'm actually upset that the little jerk got anything! It's a sad commentary on society or something that he got a big payout when it should have been me!

    What a fucking self-centered puke.
    , @Twinkie

    The ability of anybody to bring and to win such suites is a far worse commentary on the state of our society than anything CNN did. It is part and parcel of the whole culture of victimhood, of making capital out of real or imagined offenses in a land where everybody lives as if they’re on a game show all the time. It is not praiseworthy, it is just adding to the cynicism and degradation.
     
    I completely understand your sentiment and, to a great extent, share it. I am, by nature, a Burkean conservative and feel a strong affinity for tradition, honor, and dignity of the ordinary man. Burke himself would agree that it would be a most un-conservative thing to participate, for example, in mass politics and other such inventions of revolutionaries, let alone proliferation of lawsuits, victimhood-promotion, etc. that have become the norm in our society.

    HOWEVER, Burke had a conservative society, which was indeed worth conserving. We do not. We - all of us ideological dissidents of varying types - are insurgents. As such, to do as your (and my) sentiment dictates - that is, avoid staining ourselves with the tools and methods of our enemies - is to withdraw ourselves from the society at large, indeed abandon it, like some monks who abhor the larger human company. And that does nothing to bring any sort of restoration or remediation of what afflicts our society. We would be simply isolated in little pockets and mopped up eventually one-by-one.

    No, we cannot do as our nature is wont to do. What we must do is to poke holes in the beast as best as we can and expose its hyprocrisy and afflict its purveyors with pain. Make the beast bleed in any way we can. These people and their institutions neither understand honor nor harbor shame. But they do understand bad press, popular outrage, and, yes, money.

    So, do I wish this young man and his family had pressed on and - for the sake of truth - instigated further exposures of the beast's underbelly through the legal means of discovery and so on? Yes, I do. But I do not make demands of martyrdom on others. The boy and his family have done enough, more than most. Let them reap what little monetary rewards they can, with the satisfaction of knowing that they poked a hole.

    , @Audacious Epigone
    Wha? A junior in high school is targeted by an adult conman. Corporate media outlets like CNN blatantly lie about it, causing a minor to receive countless death threats. If not for the black Israelites cell phone stream of the encounter, the completely inverted false story would've been treated as truth and an innocent child's life would've been ruined.

    That the miscreants at CNN who are responsible are able to pay their way out of it instead of hang from lampposts is something they should be eternally grateful for.

  7. @Intelligent Dasein
    I had completely forgotten about this incident, and I wish it could have stayed that way.

    What I find unseemly here is that this kid endured nothing more---and, in fact, considerably less---than what many of us have been experiencing, year in and year out, for much of our lives, only there was no CNN camera around to record it. Taking such a payout is dishonorable. If getting trashed by CNN for a few days is all it takes to garner a winning lottery ticket, who wouldn't sign up for that? Where is the injury here?

    The ability of anybody to bring and to win such suites is a far worse commentary on the state of our society than anything CNN did. It is part and parcel of the whole culture of victimhood, of making capital out of real or imagined offenses in a land where everybody lives as if they're on a game show all the time. It is not praiseworthy, it is just adding to the cynicism and degradation.

    My first thought was of Der Sandmann, wishing he would sprinkle some of his stuff on me, as I suffer from insomnia.

    That aside, I agree with you completely.

  8. @Intelligent Dasein
    I had completely forgotten about this incident, and I wish it could have stayed that way.

    What I find unseemly here is that this kid endured nothing more---and, in fact, considerably less---than what many of us have been experiencing, year in and year out, for much of our lives, only there was no CNN camera around to record it. Taking such a payout is dishonorable. If getting trashed by CNN for a few days is all it takes to garner a winning lottery ticket, who wouldn't sign up for that? Where is the injury here?

    The ability of anybody to bring and to win such suites is a far worse commentary on the state of our society than anything CNN did. It is part and parcel of the whole culture of victimhood, of making capital out of real or imagined offenses in a land where everybody lives as if they're on a game show all the time. It is not praiseworthy, it is just adding to the cynicism and degradation.

    ? Are you serious? They slimed a 15 year old with lies and tried to ruin him for life. In your world he shouldn’t have any recourse against them because you think your “enduring” worse? “Who wouldn’t sign up for that”? — to be the subject of National Mainslime Media derision and hatred and tagged as a smirking racist for life by these lying creeps who call themselves “Journalists” and are nothing more than NWO Globalist propagandists? You’re kidding or you work for CNN?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Intelligent design didn’t comment on any of the Nick sandman UNZ articles. I believe he was totally unaware of the DC event that started it all. So he read this article and decided to chime in not knowing the circumstances or what happened.

    Intelligent design just read somebody sued CNN and got a settlement. Being a corporation worshipping capitalist conservative he thinks corporations can do no wrong.
  9. @Intelligent Dasein
    I had completely forgotten about this incident, and I wish it could have stayed that way.

    What I find unseemly here is that this kid endured nothing more---and, in fact, considerably less---than what many of us have been experiencing, year in and year out, for much of our lives, only there was no CNN camera around to record it. Taking such a payout is dishonorable. If getting trashed by CNN for a few days is all it takes to garner a winning lottery ticket, who wouldn't sign up for that? Where is the injury here?

    The ability of anybody to bring and to win such suites is a far worse commentary on the state of our society than anything CNN did. It is part and parcel of the whole culture of victimhood, of making capital out of real or imagined offenses in a land where everybody lives as if they're on a game show all the time. It is not praiseworthy, it is just adding to the cynicism and degradation.

    Agreed. A few years ago FAIR ran an article with tge same points that you raised. They called the phenomenon perserverance porn, which I think is the right term.

    See: https://fair.org/home/medias-grim-addiction-to-perseverance-porn/

  10. its botched coverage

    Yeah, it was “botched” — some kind of slip-up or accident — no one knows exactly what happened or how/why it happened — and they hope it won’t happen again (but they didn’t do anything wrong).

    As I recall, there was a lot of ‘botching’ in the media around that time — just a weird mass coincidence I guess — no pattern or ulterior motives — nothing like that.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Yeah, the word "botched" is often used in "botched"-up articles, in which the problem is really nefarious behavior, not stupidity.

    This wording reminds me of the almost-a-decade-ago great blog-journalism done by Mike Vanderboegh and David Codrea on that gun-walker scandal by Eric Holder's "justice" department. The word "botched" was used over and over again about those semi-auto and even full-auto rifles ending up in Mexico. It was no botching but a purposeful operation to support the Hildabeast's "90% of the cartels guns come from America" BS. The botching was only in that Eric Holder and his scumbags got found out.
  11. @songbird
    As opprobrious as CNN is, the worst demon spawn is state and public media - you are required to pay for the propaganda that is made against you.

    Deustche Welle has put out stuff that made me furious before. And I am not even German, nor am I paying for it. These types of organizations - anything that requires taxes or a fee that is levied on you without your choice - are evil incarnate, and they need to be ended.

    “these types of organizations – anything that requires taxes or a fee that is levied on you without your choice – are evil incarnate, and they need to be ended.”

    Yes, but don’t assume that their private replacements will be any better.

    (Intelligent Dasein – it was because it was a national broadcast, setting the mob onto a child and a private citizen. Yes, things just as bad happen to lots of people, but they don’t all end up publicly smeared like that. The settlement is also an admission of guilt, de facto if not de jure. Not all settlements are like that of course.)

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Yes, things just as bad happen to lots of people, but they don’t all end up publicly smeared like that.
     
    Yep, exactly. This lawsuit will be instrumental in getting the Lyin Press smear corps to have some 2nd thoughts the next time they gin up a bullshit story.

    I'm not a sue-happy guy by any means. I'd rather get back in the peoples' faces and the media faces, were I ever in this public situation. However, they were teenage boys, and not only were they taught to be polite, but I'm not sure they'd know how to fight back with just words.

    The settlement is also an admission of guilt, de facto if not de jure.
     
    Ha! I'm no lawyerly type, as I wrote, generally can't stand the f___ckers, personally, but I was about to write that. Whatever the settlement said, it's a discouragement to the slanderers for the next time around too.
  12. Well, sometimes the good guys win.

    As for nuisance suits–they’re really a thing, I agree, but CNN basically ruined the kid’s life because he was standing in the wrong place that day, unless he wants to become a conservative commentator. He can’t do anything else, he’s ‘the Covington Catholic smirker’. Now if he’s smart he doesn’t have to work. Of course, that carries its own set of risks (young people given too much money young tend to blow it on silly things and become lazy), but it’s better than the alternative.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Meh, his family doesn’t seem the kind that will let him waste the money. There’s a family business.

    He could build a 10 unit complex of 3-4 bedroom condos with a pool and several acres of garden. Then sell the condos and give the buyers the mortgage. Interest rates are way low, but he’d be set for 30 years. He could also be the management company that manages the complex and charge a high fee.
  13. @YetAnotherAnon
    "these types of organizations – anything that requires taxes or a fee that is levied on you without your choice – are evil incarnate, and they need to be ended."

    Yes, but don't assume that their private replacements will be any better.

    (Intelligent Dasein - it was because it was a national broadcast, setting the mob onto a child and a private citizen. Yes, things just as bad happen to lots of people, but they don't all end up publicly smeared like that. The settlement is also an admission of guilt, de facto if not de jure. Not all settlements are like that of course.)

    Yes, things just as bad happen to lots of people, but they don’t all end up publicly smeared like that.

    Yep, exactly. This lawsuit will be instrumental in getting the Lyin Press smear corps to have some 2nd thoughts the next time they gin up a bullshit story.

    I’m not a sue-happy guy by any means. I’d rather get back in the peoples’ faces and the media faces, were I ever in this public situation. However, they were teenage boys, and not only were they taught to be polite, but I’m not sure they’d know how to fight back with just words.

    The settlement is also an admission of guilt, de facto if not de jure.

    Ha! I’m no lawyerly type, as I wrote, generally can’t stand the f___ckers, personally, but I was about to write that. Whatever the settlement said, it’s a discouragement to the slanderers for the next time around too.

  14. Hurrah for our side!

    And this gets you a gold plated Get Out of Jail Free card that completely cancels your K. Harris pick.

  15. BTW, VDare has got it’s own lawsuits going, but they are for more than slander. (Were they for slander, VDare would have to have a full-time lawyer to start a suit every coupla’ hours!)

    They can’t even have conferences of their own at venues like hotels and such. Every time an event is planned the ctrl-left starts in with some Nazi or what-have-you slurs and the corporate cucks give in. In Colorado Springs, they did because the city decided they would not enforce the law against anyone disrupting the conference. Yes, they get their money back usually, but it’s getting ridiculous.

    Please support VDare if you can in their lawsuit against Colorado Springs and PayPal.

  16. @eah
    its botched coverage

    Yeah, it was "botched" -- some kind of slip-up or accident -- no one knows exactly what happened or how/why it happened -- and they hope it won't happen again (but they didn't do anything wrong).

    As I recall, there was a lot of 'botching' in the media around that time -- just a weird mass coincidence I guess -- no pattern or ulterior motives -- nothing like that.

    Yeah, the word “botched” is often used in “botched”-up articles, in which the problem is really nefarious behavior, not stupidity.

    This wording reminds me of the almost-a-decade-ago great blog-journalism done by Mike Vanderboegh and David Codrea on that gun-walker scandal by Eric Holder’s “justice” department. The word “botched” was used over and over again about those semi-auto and even full-auto rifles ending up in Mexico. It was no botching but a purposeful operation to support the Hildabeast’s “90% of the cartels guns come from America” BS. The botching was only in that Eric Holder and his scumbags got found out.

  17. @Intelligent Dasein
    I had completely forgotten about this incident, and I wish it could have stayed that way.

    What I find unseemly here is that this kid endured nothing more---and, in fact, considerably less---than what many of us have been experiencing, year in and year out, for much of our lives, only there was no CNN camera around to record it. Taking such a payout is dishonorable. If getting trashed by CNN for a few days is all it takes to garner a winning lottery ticket, who wouldn't sign up for that? Where is the injury here?

    The ability of anybody to bring and to win such suites is a far worse commentary on the state of our society than anything CNN did. It is part and parcel of the whole culture of victimhood, of making capital out of real or imagined offenses in a land where everybody lives as if they're on a game show all the time. It is not praiseworthy, it is just adding to the cynicism and degradation.

    People wonder why the right’s been losing, with totally useless people like this on “our side”? An unambiguoisly evil organization had to tacitly admit wrongdoing and give a big payout to one of our allies, but still you bitch and whine about it somehow being “wrong”. You will never contribute ANYTHING of value, because you can’t appreciate the good fortune of an ally without wanting to spite him, you really don’t care about winning and just want to bitch.

    Yeah, a teenager was smeared and almost ruined for life by the minions of Satan, but I’ve been through worse, so I’m not happy, no, I’m actually upset that the little jerk got anything! It’s a sad commentary on society or something that he got a big payout when it should have been me!

    What a fucking self-centered puke.

    • Agree: West Reanimator
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Intelligent design is a conservative. Conservatives aren’t CEOs or employees of giant companies, Drs hospital&nursing home administrators, landlords or owners of any size businesses.

    But they firmly believe that giant corporations and businesses of any size can do no wrong to customers, clients and employers. Landlords can do no wrong and shouldn’t have to follow the landlord tenant laws. Above all, hospitals nursing homes nurses and all medics can do no wrong.

    They seem to live in never never land.

    Hopefully, no Dr will assure them they’re just getting older when their entire pelvis has already rotted away and they’re walking on muscle and ligaments. They will never be wrongfully fired from their job to make way for an affirmative action hire. Conservatives just love working overtime with no overtime pay. Capitalists love conservatives with their enjoyment of the 70 hour week for 40 hours pay. They think calling a minimum wage sales clerk an associate and making them work 20 unpaid hours a week is just fine.

    They’re the ultimate conformists.

  18. Unfortunately, zog has infinite shekels for this kind of thing. Sandmann will enjoy a financial windfall, so good for him, but trial and discovery would have been more beneficial to Whites, the ultimate target of the J media’s blood libels.

  19. This is especially sweet given the ethnicity of many people bashing Sandmann. Without getting myself banned, let me just say a lot of these folks were not from the United States…and are highly ambitious and arrogant…and have had their career tickets punched by corporate America. They think they have a right to wash up on these shores and use Twitter to libel good American kids because their masters have given them the go-ahead.

  20. I have been following this outrage from England and it is absolutely brilliant news that the media establishment are now having to cough up millions of dollars to this Sandmann boy. I understand his lawyers are also going after politicians, actors and other celebrities who thought they could virtue signal by publicly defaming the boys and making threats. GOOD! I hope the liberal vermin are shitting themselves now. Presumably they have had to hire lawyers too which is going to cost them a fortune. I hope they lose everything. The boy was fifteen years old and did absolutely nothing wrong, so all concerned are going to deserve all that they get.

    Its great that he is now set up for life, its as if he has won the lottery. How those liberal establishment fuckwits must be pissed off now. All they have managed to achieve is for their enemy to live a life of leisure and luxury. As I said, it’s a brilliant result.

  21. Another silly fake news story, Sandman is a paid actor, so is the Injun…

    …And so are the so-called “Black Hebrews”

    Another scripted high-school theatre event, Audie, Geez, for cryin’ out loud…

  22. 216 says: • Website

    Well, I’m glad to see I was proven wrong. I was rather pessmistic about the lawsuit(s) suceeding, though I do wonder how much the payout was (for all we know it was only five figures, it won’t hurt unless it was eight, with a median guess of a high six).

    The question now is whether or not the other lawsuits reach a settlement.

    For a particular J. Bezos, it is fraught with risk.

    If he settles, the subscriber base of his Blog will cancel; seeing it as capitulation.

    The incentive will be high for him to take it to trial, and aim for ritual humiliation of Sandmann.

    Also of note are the lawsuits filed by others.

    Bertelsman did not exercise jurisdiction over the other 10 defendants in the suit, including CNN’s Ana Navarro; comedian Kathy Griffin; ABC News political analyst Matthew Dowd; writer Reza Aslan; Kentucky entrepreneur Adam Edelen; Princeton history professor Kevin M. Kruse; activist and journalist Shaun King; Mother Jones editor-in-chief Clara Jeffery; and Rewire.News editor-in-chief Jodi Jacobson.
    The case will continue in Kenton County Circuit Court, where it was filed.

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/covington-catholic-students-defamation-suit-against-warren-is-dismissed

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    Sandmann's lawyer, Lin Wood, is accustomed to getting big settlements from media firms. I doubt he would advise his client to settle for less than seven figures, and probably a high seven at that. As our host points out, CNN was probably keen to avoid discovery (and to avoid having their aggressive incompetence rehashed in the news cycles), so they may have paid a premium for that, so maybe eight figures.

    If you are a corporate earnings report watcher, you can sometimes sniff out settlement amounts from the footnotes in annual reports by looking at the litigation reserve amounts, but in CNN's case, they are owned by Turner Broadcasting, which in turn is owned by Warner Media, which in turn is owned by AT&T, so whatever the litigation reserve and settlement amounts were, they are probably an invisible rounding error in this huge corporate conglomerate. On the other, those deep pockets mean that CNN was less averse to a big settlement.

    Eventually there will be some unofficial rumored settlement amount. It will probably be accurate. Lawyers want to know what other cases settled for so they can decide what their own cases are worth.

  23. Ouch

    https://twitter.com/ToddMcMurtry/status/1215082857250639872

    Apart from the celebration, such asinine juvenile behavior between these men.

    Is it such a wonder why we lose most of the time?

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    For all his surface erudition, that episode revealed something that seemingly motivates Reza Aslan - his grade (or junior high) school insecurities.

    "Punchable"? I doubt Dr. Aslan has thrown a single punch in his life.

    He is apparently still that little boy smarting from the playground insults and smirkings of the cool kids at school.

    He should stop thinking and tweeting about punching children and go learn some combat sports (with other adults).
  24. Sandman is a white Christian American male. Presumably heterosexual. Wearing a MAGA hat. Hate smirking. Literally Hitler.

    He should not be allowed to wait around for his ride home. He is responsible for the Native American genocide, black slavery and Climate Change. And you can tell by his hat that he is a racist, a rapist and a white supremacist.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Solidarity forever!!!! Raise the White Nationalist Flag. !!!!!!!!.
    , @Audacious Epigone
    Yes, they hate our children and have no qualms getting them killed if they are able to get away with it. Never forget what we are dealing with.
  25. @Intelligent Dasein
    I had completely forgotten about this incident, and I wish it could have stayed that way.

    What I find unseemly here is that this kid endured nothing more---and, in fact, considerably less---than what many of us have been experiencing, year in and year out, for much of our lives, only there was no CNN camera around to record it. Taking such a payout is dishonorable. If getting trashed by CNN for a few days is all it takes to garner a winning lottery ticket, who wouldn't sign up for that? Where is the injury here?

    The ability of anybody to bring and to win such suites is a far worse commentary on the state of our society than anything CNN did. It is part and parcel of the whole culture of victimhood, of making capital out of real or imagined offenses in a land where everybody lives as if they're on a game show all the time. It is not praiseworthy, it is just adding to the cynicism and degradation.

    The ability of anybody to bring and to win such suites is a far worse commentary on the state of our society than anything CNN did. It is part and parcel of the whole culture of victimhood, of making capital out of real or imagined offenses in a land where everybody lives as if they’re on a game show all the time. It is not praiseworthy, it is just adding to the cynicism and degradation.

    I completely understand your sentiment and, to a great extent, share it. I am, by nature, a Burkean conservative and feel a strong affinity for tradition, honor, and dignity of the ordinary man. Burke himself would agree that it would be a most un-conservative thing to participate, for example, in mass politics and other such inventions of revolutionaries, let alone proliferation of lawsuits, victimhood-promotion, etc. that have become the norm in our society.

    HOWEVER, Burke had a conservative society, which was indeed worth conserving. We do not. We – all of us ideological dissidents of varying types – are insurgents. As such, to do as your (and my) sentiment dictates – that is, avoid staining ourselves with the tools and methods of our enemies – is to withdraw ourselves from the society at large, indeed abandon it, like some monks who abhor the larger human company. And that does nothing to bring any sort of restoration or remediation of what afflicts our society. We would be simply isolated in little pockets and mopped up eventually one-by-one.

    No, we cannot do as our nature is wont to do. What we must do is to poke holes in the beast as best as we can and expose its hyprocrisy and afflict its purveyors with pain. Make the beast bleed in any way we can. These people and their institutions neither understand honor nor harbor shame. But they do understand bad press, popular outrage, and, yes, money.

    So, do I wish this young man and his family had pressed on and – for the sake of truth – instigated further exposures of the beast’s underbelly through the legal means of discovery and so on? Yes, I do. But I do not make demands of martyrdom on others. The boy and his family have done enough, more than most. Let them reap what little monetary rewards they can, with the satisfaction of knowing that they poked a hole.

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
    Your assessment of this situation does not agree enough with my own to make a discussion possible in common terms.

    I do not regard CNN as an evil beast that needs to be destroyed, nor would I care one way or the other if they were destroyed; I have nothing to do with them. I did not and do not desire some sort of juridical process to expose their underbelly, whatever that means. I strongly disagree that Nick Sandmann and his family have accomplished a Goddamn thing beyond bleeding another corporate cow, which seems to be the preferred American way of making a living. His claim to being some sort of Alt-Right hero is about as substantive as Taylor Swift's, and no doubt partakes of the same dynamics---meme magic---meanwhile Miss Swift is telling those who oppose gay pride parades to calm down.

    This is entirely irrelvant. It should not matter to anybody. It is strange that it does. It's strange, do you not see that? What is the matter with you people?
  26. @216
    Ouch

    https://twitter.com/ToddMcMurtry/status/1215082857250639872

    Apart from the celebration, such asinine juvenile behavior between these men.

    Is it such a wonder why we lose most of the time?

    For all his surface erudition, that episode revealed something that seemingly motivates Reza Aslan – his grade (or junior high) school insecurities.

    “Punchable”? I doubt Dr. Aslan has thrown a single punch in his life.

    He is apparently still that little boy smarting from the playground insults and smirkings of the cool kids at school.

    He should stop thinking and tweeting about punching children and go learn some combat sports (with other adults).

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    Exactly. His is the bitter of rage of someone who has never been in a fight, let alone has any studied understanding of or relationship with violence. If he did, he would never talk this way about a child.
  27. Anonymous[277] • Disclaimer says:

    I’d like to believe that Sandmann got a few million, if only because that’s an amount that might actually teach CNN a lesson…but from what I understand the amount could just as easily be in the tens-hundreds of thousands range. Sandmann’s lawsuit against WaPo got dismissed, remember. Absent some unknown explosive detail (which is possible; as we learned from Peter Strzok it’s amazing what dopey middle-aged people will say to each other over company email) I can’t imagine CNN’s lawyers advising them to settle for an amount that is, for them, the realistic worst-case outcome at trial (the 250m demand is an obvious absurdity). This was not exactly a slam-dunk case for Sandmann.

  28. Is there any way to find out the exact amount. Remember this kid will be applying for college in a few years and due to this event could be turned down for a decent one. Not to mention after he’s graduated this could impact any job search. He could be secretly ‘blacklisted’ for life by employers…

    So whatever this amount is could be all he gets for LIFE…as we don’t know if he will ever get accepted into colleges or get employment afterwards…

  29. @216
    Well, I'm glad to see I was proven wrong. I was rather pessmistic about the lawsuit(s) suceeding, though I do wonder how much the payout was (for all we know it was only five figures, it won't hurt unless it was eight, with a median guess of a high six).

    The question now is whether or not the other lawsuits reach a settlement.

    For a particular J. Bezos, it is fraught with risk.

    If he settles, the subscriber base of his Blog will cancel; seeing it as capitulation.

    The incentive will be high for him to take it to trial, and aim for ritual humiliation of Sandmann.

    Also of note are the lawsuits filed by others.

    Bertelsman did not exercise jurisdiction over the other 10 defendants in the suit, including CNN’s Ana Navarro; comedian Kathy Griffin; ABC News political analyst Matthew Dowd; writer Reza Aslan; Kentucky entrepreneur Adam Edelen; Princeton history professor Kevin M. Kruse; activist and journalist Shaun King; Mother Jones editor-in-chief Clara Jeffery; and Rewire.News editor-in-chief Jodi Jacobson.
    The case will continue in Kenton County Circuit Court, where it was filed.
     
    https://www.foxnews.com/us/covington-catholic-students-defamation-suit-against-warren-is-dismissed

    Sandmann’s lawyer, Lin Wood, is accustomed to getting big settlements from media firms. I doubt he would advise his client to settle for less than seven figures, and probably a high seven at that. As our host points out, CNN was probably keen to avoid discovery (and to avoid having their aggressive incompetence rehashed in the news cycles), so they may have paid a premium for that, so maybe eight figures.

    If you are a corporate earnings report watcher, you can sometimes sniff out settlement amounts from the footnotes in annual reports by looking at the litigation reserve amounts, but in CNN’s case, they are owned by Turner Broadcasting, which in turn is owned by Warner Media, which in turn is owned by AT&T, so whatever the litigation reserve and settlement amounts were, they are probably an invisible rounding error in this huge corporate conglomerate. On the other, those deep pockets mean that CNN was less averse to a big settlement.

    Eventually there will be some unofficial rumored settlement amount. It will probably be accurate. Lawyers want to know what other cases settled for so they can decide what their own cases are worth.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
  30. @Twinkie

    The ability of anybody to bring and to win such suites is a far worse commentary on the state of our society than anything CNN did. It is part and parcel of the whole culture of victimhood, of making capital out of real or imagined offenses in a land where everybody lives as if they’re on a game show all the time. It is not praiseworthy, it is just adding to the cynicism and degradation.
     
    I completely understand your sentiment and, to a great extent, share it. I am, by nature, a Burkean conservative and feel a strong affinity for tradition, honor, and dignity of the ordinary man. Burke himself would agree that it would be a most un-conservative thing to participate, for example, in mass politics and other such inventions of revolutionaries, let alone proliferation of lawsuits, victimhood-promotion, etc. that have become the norm in our society.

    HOWEVER, Burke had a conservative society, which was indeed worth conserving. We do not. We - all of us ideological dissidents of varying types - are insurgents. As such, to do as your (and my) sentiment dictates - that is, avoid staining ourselves with the tools and methods of our enemies - is to withdraw ourselves from the society at large, indeed abandon it, like some monks who abhor the larger human company. And that does nothing to bring any sort of restoration or remediation of what afflicts our society. We would be simply isolated in little pockets and mopped up eventually one-by-one.

    No, we cannot do as our nature is wont to do. What we must do is to poke holes in the beast as best as we can and expose its hyprocrisy and afflict its purveyors with pain. Make the beast bleed in any way we can. These people and their institutions neither understand honor nor harbor shame. But they do understand bad press, popular outrage, and, yes, money.

    So, do I wish this young man and his family had pressed on and - for the sake of truth - instigated further exposures of the beast's underbelly through the legal means of discovery and so on? Yes, I do. But I do not make demands of martyrdom on others. The boy and his family have done enough, more than most. Let them reap what little monetary rewards they can, with the satisfaction of knowing that they poked a hole.

    Your assessment of this situation does not agree enough with my own to make a discussion possible in common terms.

    I do not regard CNN as an evil beast that needs to be destroyed, nor would I care one way or the other if they were destroyed; I have nothing to do with them. I did not and do not desire some sort of juridical process to expose their underbelly, whatever that means. I strongly disagree that Nick Sandmann and his family have accomplished a Goddamn thing beyond bleeding another corporate cow, which seems to be the preferred American way of making a living. His claim to being some sort of Alt-Right hero is about as substantive as Taylor Swift’s, and no doubt partakes of the same dynamics—meme magic—meanwhile Miss Swift is telling those who oppose gay pride parades to calm down.

    This is entirely irrelvant. It should not matter to anybody. It is strange that it does. It’s strange, do you not see that? What is the matter with you people?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Sandman could have charged them with child abuse. There’s 4 kinds of child abuse; 1 physical
    2 emotional 3 work 4 sexual.

    What the representatives of Satan ( liberals) did to him fits the exact of emotional child abuse in all 50 states W&I codes.

    Liberals 👿 👺👹
    White Nationalists 👼👩‍🦰👩‍🦳⚔️

    Conservatives 👎👎👎👎👎
    , @Audacious Epigone
    I'm not sure why you perceive alt-right/white nationalism in everyone here, myself included. It's odd.

    This is being celebrated across the right, as it should be. We're seeing the first signs that if we fight fire with fire, we may be able to stop losing all the time. There are some on the right (like Peter Thiel) who understand this. More need to realize it, and this helps.

    George Zimmerman is the next big one to watch.

    , @Almost Missouri

    "I have nothing to do with them."
     
    You may not be interested in CNN, but CNN is interested in you.

    And unfortunately, it is not in a good way.

    Good luck being eaten last.
    , @Almost Missouri

    "His claim to being some sort of Alt-Right hero is about as substantive as Taylor Swift’s"
     
    I haven't heard of him claiming to be an "Alt-Right hero". I do think a certain amount of heroism is being attributed to him, including by me.

    He didn't back down, apologize or beg for mercy in the face of a vicious, nationwide, coordinated attack.

    He did sue, and is winning.

    That's more than you can say for 99% of the Ctrl-Left's victims.

    Not bad for a 15-year-old.
  31. Anonymous[322] • Disclaimer says:
    @SFG
    Well, sometimes the good guys win.

    As for nuisance suits--they're really a thing, I agree, but CNN basically ruined the kid's life because he was standing in the wrong place that day, unless he wants to become a conservative commentator. He can't do anything else, he's 'the Covington Catholic smirker'. Now if he's smart he doesn't have to work. Of course, that carries its own set of risks (young people given too much money young tend to blow it on silly things and become lazy), but it's better than the alternative.

    Meh, his family doesn’t seem the kind that will let him waste the money. There’s a family business.

    He could build a 10 unit complex of 3-4 bedroom condos with a pool and several acres of garden. Then sell the condos and give the buyers the mortgage. Interest rates are way low, but he’d be set for 30 years. He could also be the management company that manages the complex and charge a high fee.

  32. @WorkingClass
    Sandman is a white Christian American male. Presumably heterosexual. Wearing a MAGA hat. Hate smirking. Literally Hitler.

    He should not be allowed to wait around for his ride home. He is responsible for the Native American genocide, black slavery and Climate Change. And you can tell by his hat that he is a racist, a rapist and a white supremacist.

    Solidarity forever!!!! Raise the White Nationalist Flag. !!!!!!!!.

    • Replies: @WorkingClass
    I confess to being white. And Nationalist. But I am not a White Nationalist. That shit is just dumb. And rare in my experience.
    , @Priss Factor
    You mean White Liberation Flag.
  33. @MikeatMikedotMike
    "Going to trial means discovery. There is nothing corporate media and the journalists and reporters in their employ want less than for wronged parties to be able to sift through all their DMs, emails, text messages, etc. And so, like CNN, many will settle."

    This is exactly what makes the news of settlement disappointing, and the likelihood of the settlement being much greater than 2% (although I know that wasn't your final answer).

    I can't really blame the Sandmann's for settling, disappointed though I am.

    Once they have settled one case (presumably they are left both set for life and with a stronger position against the rest) perhaps they will be more inclined to take the others to trial? One possible benefit of separate cases.

  34. @Intelligent Dasein
    Your assessment of this situation does not agree enough with my own to make a discussion possible in common terms.

    I do not regard CNN as an evil beast that needs to be destroyed, nor would I care one way or the other if they were destroyed; I have nothing to do with them. I did not and do not desire some sort of juridical process to expose their underbelly, whatever that means. I strongly disagree that Nick Sandmann and his family have accomplished a Goddamn thing beyond bleeding another corporate cow, which seems to be the preferred American way of making a living. His claim to being some sort of Alt-Right hero is about as substantive as Taylor Swift's, and no doubt partakes of the same dynamics---meme magic---meanwhile Miss Swift is telling those who oppose gay pride parades to calm down.

    This is entirely irrelvant. It should not matter to anybody. It is strange that it does. It's strange, do you not see that? What is the matter with you people?

    Sandman could have charged them with child abuse. There’s 4 kinds of child abuse; 1 physical
    2 emotional 3 work 4 sexual.

    What the representatives of Satan ( liberals) did to him fits the exact of emotional child abuse in all 50 states W&I codes.

    Liberals 👿 👺👹
    White Nationalists 👼👩‍🦰👩‍🦳⚔️

    Conservatives 👎👎👎👎👎

  35. Anonymous[322] • Disclaimer says:
    @Athletic and Whitesplosive
    People wonder why the right's been losing, with totally useless people like this on "our side"? An unambiguoisly evil organization had to tacitly admit wrongdoing and give a big payout to one of our allies, but still you bitch and whine about it somehow being "wrong". You will never contribute ANYTHING of value, because you can't appreciate the good fortune of an ally without wanting to spite him, you really don't care about winning and just want to bitch.

    Yeah, a teenager was smeared and almost ruined for life by the minions of Satan, but I've been through worse, so I'm not happy, no, I'm actually upset that the little jerk got anything! It's a sad commentary on society or something that he got a big payout when it should have been me!

    What a fucking self-centered puke.

    Intelligent design is a conservative. Conservatives aren’t CEOs or employees of giant companies, Drs hospital&nursing home administrators, landlords or owners of any size businesses.

    But they firmly believe that giant corporations and businesses of any size can do no wrong to customers, clients and employers. Landlords can do no wrong and shouldn’t have to follow the landlord tenant laws. Above all, hospitals nursing homes nurses and all medics can do no wrong.

    They seem to live in never never land.

    Hopefully, no Dr will assure them they’re just getting older when their entire pelvis has already rotted away and they’re walking on muscle and ligaments. They will never be wrongfully fired from their job to make way for an affirmative action hire. Conservatives just love working overtime with no overtime pay. Capitalists love conservatives with their enjoyment of the 70 hour week for 40 hours pay. They think calling a minimum wage sales clerk an associate and making them work 20 unpaid hours a week is just fine.

    They’re the ultimate conformists.

  36. Anonymous[322] • Disclaimer says:
    @getaclue
    ? Are you serious? They slimed a 15 year old with lies and tried to ruin him for life. In your world he shouldn't have any recourse against them because you think your "enduring" worse? "Who wouldn't sign up for that"? -- to be the subject of National Mainslime Media derision and hatred and tagged as a smirking racist for life by these lying creeps who call themselves "Journalists" and are nothing more than NWO Globalist propagandists? You're kidding or you work for CNN?

    Intelligent design didn’t comment on any of the Nick sandman UNZ articles. I believe he was totally unaware of the DC event that started it all. So he read this article and decided to chime in not knowing the circumstances or what happened.

    Intelligent design just read somebody sued CNN and got a settlement. Being a corporation worshipping capitalist conservative he thinks corporations can do no wrong.

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
    You clearly have no idea what you're talking about, as anybody remotely familiar with my commenting history can verify.
  37. @Anonymous
    Intelligent design didn’t comment on any of the Nick sandman UNZ articles. I believe he was totally unaware of the DC event that started it all. So he read this article and decided to chime in not knowing the circumstances or what happened.

    Intelligent design just read somebody sued CNN and got a settlement. Being a corporation worshipping capitalist conservative he thinks corporations can do no wrong.

    You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about, as anybody remotely familiar with my commenting history can verify.

  38. @Anonymous
    Solidarity forever!!!! Raise the White Nationalist Flag. !!!!!!!!.

    I confess to being white. And Nationalist. But I am not a White Nationalist. That shit is just dumb. And rare in my experience.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    The "white nationalist" label - condensed to "WN types" by mostly non "whites" to include Ron Unz himself, is merely a smarmy slur self-proclaimed intellectuals throw around here so they can seem like they're not as vulgar as people who use those really icky slurs like.... oh yeah, all those other slurs that don't refer to "whites." Those are the bad slurs. Cracker, redneck, hillbilly, W-word, yellow hammer. Those are fine.

    Preferring that the US return to 85% or greater European descended citizens, would manage to retain quite a few ethnic groups, cultures, and beliefs. But no, we're just "whites". No diversity whatsoever. All "whites" are the same, because we're just WN types.

    What a joke.
  39. @Anonymous
    Solidarity forever!!!! Raise the White Nationalist Flag. !!!!!!!!.

    You mean White Liberation Flag.

  40. Dirtbags like Jeff Zucker will gladly pay out relative peanuts [ie. seven figure settlements] on suits like this, in exchange for Fake News that will boost their sagging ratings. What do you think he pays hacks like Little Brian, Anderson Pooper, Fredo, and Don Lemonsqueezer?

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    It's not primarily about turning CNN into the next Gawker, it's about showing people on our side that if you are smeared, you can--and absolutely should--fight back.
  41. @Intelligent Dasein
    I had completely forgotten about this incident, and I wish it could have stayed that way.

    What I find unseemly here is that this kid endured nothing more---and, in fact, considerably less---than what many of us have been experiencing, year in and year out, for much of our lives, only there was no CNN camera around to record it. Taking such a payout is dishonorable. If getting trashed by CNN for a few days is all it takes to garner a winning lottery ticket, who wouldn't sign up for that? Where is the injury here?

    The ability of anybody to bring and to win such suites is a far worse commentary on the state of our society than anything CNN did. It is part and parcel of the whole culture of victimhood, of making capital out of real or imagined offenses in a land where everybody lives as if they're on a game show all the time. It is not praiseworthy, it is just adding to the cynicism and degradation.

    Wha? A junior in high school is targeted by an adult conman. Corporate media outlets like CNN blatantly lie about it, causing a minor to receive countless death threats. If not for the black Israelites cell phone stream of the encounter, the completely inverted false story would’ve been treated as truth and an innocent child’s life would’ve been ruined.

    That the miscreants at CNN who are responsible are able to pay their way out of it instead of hang from lampposts is something they should be eternally grateful for.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    Can't we use the lampposts anyway?
  42. I’m glad he hurt CNN financially.

    We can all do the same if we cancel our cable TV subscriptions.

  43. @WorkingClass
    Sandman is a white Christian American male. Presumably heterosexual. Wearing a MAGA hat. Hate smirking. Literally Hitler.

    He should not be allowed to wait around for his ride home. He is responsible for the Native American genocide, black slavery and Climate Change. And you can tell by his hat that he is a racist, a rapist and a white supremacist.

    Yes, they hate our children and have no qualms getting them killed if they are able to get away with it. Never forget what we are dealing with.

  44. @Twinkie
    For all his surface erudition, that episode revealed something that seemingly motivates Reza Aslan - his grade (or junior high) school insecurities.

    "Punchable"? I doubt Dr. Aslan has thrown a single punch in his life.

    He is apparently still that little boy smarting from the playground insults and smirkings of the cool kids at school.

    He should stop thinking and tweeting about punching children and go learn some combat sports (with other adults).

    Exactly. His is the bitter of rage of someone who has never been in a fight, let alone has any studied understanding of or relationship with violence. If he did, he would never talk this way about a child.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    I find this to be an interesting statement. A while back we discussed the benefits of using spanking as a means of behavior correction for small children, to which you disagreed. Your reasons, went something along the lines of "physical violence is bad."

    But here you recognize the negative effects in an individual who has very likely never been involved in a physical confrontation, specifically as a child.

    Not that spanking and fighting are the same of course, but negative physical contact (obviously not excessive or extreme) can have a positive result for kids and specifically males.

    I think exposing young males to some sort of structured pugilism would go a very long way in creating much more civilized and confident male adults, and would address things like this complex many men have about their own physical self worth (Can I hold my own in a physical fight?). I expect many modern men go their whole lives without knowing. It must eat at them to varying degrees.
  45. @Intelligent Dasein
    Your assessment of this situation does not agree enough with my own to make a discussion possible in common terms.

    I do not regard CNN as an evil beast that needs to be destroyed, nor would I care one way or the other if they were destroyed; I have nothing to do with them. I did not and do not desire some sort of juridical process to expose their underbelly, whatever that means. I strongly disagree that Nick Sandmann and his family have accomplished a Goddamn thing beyond bleeding another corporate cow, which seems to be the preferred American way of making a living. His claim to being some sort of Alt-Right hero is about as substantive as Taylor Swift's, and no doubt partakes of the same dynamics---meme magic---meanwhile Miss Swift is telling those who oppose gay pride parades to calm down.

    This is entirely irrelvant. It should not matter to anybody. It is strange that it does. It's strange, do you not see that? What is the matter with you people?

    I’m not sure why you perceive alt-right/white nationalism in everyone here, myself included. It’s odd.

    This is being celebrated across the right, as it should be. We’re seeing the first signs that if we fight fire with fire, we may be able to stop losing all the time. There are some on the right (like Peter Thiel) who understand this. More need to realize it, and this helps.

    George Zimmerman is the next big one to watch.

    • Replies: @iffen
    This is being celebrated across the right

    This is one of those events that shouldn't be thought of as exclusive to the right. This was a win for Truth, Justice and the American Way.

    I’m not sure why you perceive alt-right/white nationalism in everyone here

    He's not that good at perception.
  46. @VivaLaMigra
    Dirtbags like Jeff Zucker will gladly pay out relative peanuts [ie. seven figure settlements] on suits like this, in exchange for Fake News that will boost their sagging ratings. What do you think he pays hacks like Little Brian, Anderson Pooper, Fredo, and Don Lemonsqueezer?

    It’s not primarily about turning CNN into the next Gawker, it’s about showing people on our side that if you are smeared, you can–and absolutely should–fight back.

    • Agree: Twinkie
  47. @Intelligent Dasein
    Your assessment of this situation does not agree enough with my own to make a discussion possible in common terms.

    I do not regard CNN as an evil beast that needs to be destroyed, nor would I care one way or the other if they were destroyed; I have nothing to do with them. I did not and do not desire some sort of juridical process to expose their underbelly, whatever that means. I strongly disagree that Nick Sandmann and his family have accomplished a Goddamn thing beyond bleeding another corporate cow, which seems to be the preferred American way of making a living. His claim to being some sort of Alt-Right hero is about as substantive as Taylor Swift's, and no doubt partakes of the same dynamics---meme magic---meanwhile Miss Swift is telling those who oppose gay pride parades to calm down.

    This is entirely irrelvant. It should not matter to anybody. It is strange that it does. It's strange, do you not see that? What is the matter with you people?

    “I have nothing to do with them.”

    You may not be interested in CNN, but CNN is interested in you.

    And unfortunately, it is not in a good way.

    Good luck being eaten last.

    • Agree: Twinkie
  48. @Intelligent Dasein
    Your assessment of this situation does not agree enough with my own to make a discussion possible in common terms.

    I do not regard CNN as an evil beast that needs to be destroyed, nor would I care one way or the other if they were destroyed; I have nothing to do with them. I did not and do not desire some sort of juridical process to expose their underbelly, whatever that means. I strongly disagree that Nick Sandmann and his family have accomplished a Goddamn thing beyond bleeding another corporate cow, which seems to be the preferred American way of making a living. His claim to being some sort of Alt-Right hero is about as substantive as Taylor Swift's, and no doubt partakes of the same dynamics---meme magic---meanwhile Miss Swift is telling those who oppose gay pride parades to calm down.

    This is entirely irrelvant. It should not matter to anybody. It is strange that it does. It's strange, do you not see that? What is the matter with you people?

    “His claim to being some sort of Alt-Right hero is about as substantive as Taylor Swift’s”

    I haven’t heard of him claiming to be an “Alt-Right hero”. I do think a certain amount of heroism is being attributed to him, including by me.

    He didn’t back down, apologize or beg for mercy in the face of a vicious, nationwide, coordinated attack.

    He did sue, and is winning.

    That’s more than you can say for 99% of the Ctrl-Left’s victims.

    Not bad for a 15-year-old.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
  49. @WorkingClass
    I confess to being white. And Nationalist. But I am not a White Nationalist. That shit is just dumb. And rare in my experience.

    The “white nationalist” label – condensed to “WN types” by mostly non “whites” to include Ron Unz himself, is merely a smarmy slur self-proclaimed intellectuals throw around here so they can seem like they’re not as vulgar as people who use those really icky slurs like…. oh yeah, all those other slurs that don’t refer to “whites.” Those are the bad slurs. Cracker, redneck, hillbilly, W-word, yellow hammer. Those are fine.

    Preferring that the US return to 85% or greater European descended citizens, would manage to retain quite a few ethnic groups, cultures, and beliefs. But no, we’re just “whites”. No diversity whatsoever. All “whites” are the same, because we’re just WN types.

    What a joke.

    • Replies: @iffen
    All “whites” are the same, because we’re just WN types.

    No we're not.

    Words are our friends. They help us understand the world around us, past and present.

    You are a WN type and I'm not. That's important information to have in understanding what each of us writes.

  50. @Audacious Epigone
    I'm not sure why you perceive alt-right/white nationalism in everyone here, myself included. It's odd.

    This is being celebrated across the right, as it should be. We're seeing the first signs that if we fight fire with fire, we may be able to stop losing all the time. There are some on the right (like Peter Thiel) who understand this. More need to realize it, and this helps.

    George Zimmerman is the next big one to watch.

    This is being celebrated across the right

    This is one of those events that shouldn’t be thought of as exclusive to the right. This was a win for Truth, Justice and the American Way.

    I’m not sure why you perceive alt-right/white nationalism in everyone here

    He’s not that good at perception.

  51. @MikeatMikedotMike
    The "white nationalist" label - condensed to "WN types" by mostly non "whites" to include Ron Unz himself, is merely a smarmy slur self-proclaimed intellectuals throw around here so they can seem like they're not as vulgar as people who use those really icky slurs like.... oh yeah, all those other slurs that don't refer to "whites." Those are the bad slurs. Cracker, redneck, hillbilly, W-word, yellow hammer. Those are fine.

    Preferring that the US return to 85% or greater European descended citizens, would manage to retain quite a few ethnic groups, cultures, and beliefs. But no, we're just "whites". No diversity whatsoever. All "whites" are the same, because we're just WN types.

    What a joke.

    All “whites” are the same, because we’re just WN types.

    No we’re not.

    Words are our friends. They help us understand the world around us, past and present.

    You are a WN type and I’m not. That’s important information to have in understanding what each of us writes.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    "You are a WN type and I’m not."

    Wrong as usual. I am a normie. You are a cuck.

    You seem to spend a great deal more time thinking about me than I think about you, which is to say, only when you come yipping at my ankles, eager for another kick.
  52. @Audacious Epigone
    Exactly. His is the bitter of rage of someone who has never been in a fight, let alone has any studied understanding of or relationship with violence. If he did, he would never talk this way about a child.

    I find this to be an interesting statement. A while back we discussed the benefits of using spanking as a means of behavior correction for small children, to which you disagreed. Your reasons, went something along the lines of “physical violence is bad.”

    But here you recognize the negative effects in an individual who has very likely never been involved in a physical confrontation, specifically as a child.

    Not that spanking and fighting are the same of course, but negative physical contact (obviously not excessive or extreme) can have a positive result for kids and specifically males.

    I think exposing young males to some sort of structured pugilism would go a very long way in creating much more civilized and confident male adults, and would address things like this complex many men have about their own physical self worth (Can I hold my own in a physical fight?). I expect many modern men go their whole lives without knowing. It must eat at them to varying degrees.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    My argument is not that physical violence is inherently bad. Violence is a tool.

    I don't think it has a useful application being applied as a corrective behavioral measure by an adult on a child who has no recourse against it. If a child is being spanked for doing something wrong, it's unlikely he is going to be rewarded for effectively parrying the spanking, for example.

    That doesn't mean children, especially boys, shouldn't be instructed in it and be allowed to engage in it in a structured setting. To the contrary, those things are essential for a boy's healthy development, physically and psychologically.

  53. Peter Brimelow, an anti-immigration activist who hosts a website that has published the writings of white supremacists, is suing The New York Times for $5 million for labeling him an “open white nationalist” in an article last year.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/09/brimelow-new-york-times-lawsuit-097095

    His only chance is to prove that he is not “open.”

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    It'll be a tougher case because of his clear status as a public figure. That said, it will not be difficult to construct a definition for what the NYT defines as a "white nationalist". That definition, whatever it is teased out to be, will clearly be entirely derogatory in the context of its usage in the NYT.

    If the paper, in non-editorial sections, labels someone using an entirely derogatory term that doesn't accord with the person's behavior and it can be shown to be intentionally malicious, that is defamation. Establishing the latter is the harder part, but given VDare's long history and Brimelow's even longer history, if he can show previous instances where he objected to the description as being defamatory--and I'm certain he can--he may win.

    He doesn't have to win, though. He just needs the lawsuit not to be thrown out. Discovery in such a case will be utterly devastating for the NYT's network--not just the NYT, but the countless journalists, activists, etc it communicates with--to an extent that even dissidents cannot fully appreciate.

  54. @Audacious Epigone
    Wha? A junior in high school is targeted by an adult conman. Corporate media outlets like CNN blatantly lie about it, causing a minor to receive countless death threats. If not for the black Israelites cell phone stream of the encounter, the completely inverted false story would've been treated as truth and an innocent child's life would've been ruined.

    That the miscreants at CNN who are responsible are able to pay their way out of it instead of hang from lampposts is something they should be eternally grateful for.

    Can’t we use the lampposts anyway?

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    We do not condone nor advocate violence here. Those who do so--implicitly, in the case of CNN--against children, are beneath contempt.
  55. @iffen
    All “whites” are the same, because we’re just WN types.

    No we're not.

    Words are our friends. They help us understand the world around us, past and present.

    You are a WN type and I'm not. That's important information to have in understanding what each of us writes.

    “You are a WN type and I’m not.”

    Wrong as usual. I am a normie. You are a cuck.

    You seem to spend a great deal more time thinking about me than I think about you, which is to say, only when you come yipping at my ankles, eager for another kick.

    • Replies: @iffen
    Only a WN would accuse someone of being a cuck.

    Most normies don't know what the word means, and the ones that do are revolted by the concept.

    I am encouraged that my attention to some of your comments gives you a little tingle in your self-esteem, doesn't bother me or cost me anything.

    You are likely unaware of it, but some of your comments provide good food for thought.

    I enjoyed your tete-a-tete with Twinkie.
  56. I hope Nick Sandman is strengthened by all this. It could go either way. Pray for him.

  57. @MikeatMikedotMike
    "You are a WN type and I’m not."

    Wrong as usual. I am a normie. You are a cuck.

    You seem to spend a great deal more time thinking about me than I think about you, which is to say, only when you come yipping at my ankles, eager for another kick.

    Only a WN would accuse someone of being a cuck.

    Most normies don’t know what the word means, and the ones that do are revolted by the concept.

    I am encouraged that my attention to some of your comments gives you a little tingle in your self-esteem, doesn’t bother me or cost me anything.

    You are likely unaware of it, but some of your comments provide good food for thought.

    I enjoyed your tete-a-tete with Twinkie.

  58. @MikeatMikedotMike
    I find this to be an interesting statement. A while back we discussed the benefits of using spanking as a means of behavior correction for small children, to which you disagreed. Your reasons, went something along the lines of "physical violence is bad."

    But here you recognize the negative effects in an individual who has very likely never been involved in a physical confrontation, specifically as a child.

    Not that spanking and fighting are the same of course, but negative physical contact (obviously not excessive or extreme) can have a positive result for kids and specifically males.

    I think exposing young males to some sort of structured pugilism would go a very long way in creating much more civilized and confident male adults, and would address things like this complex many men have about their own physical self worth (Can I hold my own in a physical fight?). I expect many modern men go their whole lives without knowing. It must eat at them to varying degrees.

    My argument is not that physical violence is inherently bad. Violence is a tool.

    I don’t think it has a useful application being applied as a corrective behavioral measure by an adult on a child who has no recourse against it. If a child is being spanked for doing something wrong, it’s unlikely he is going to be rewarded for effectively parrying the spanking, for example.

    That doesn’t mean children, especially boys, shouldn’t be instructed in it and be allowed to engage in it in a structured setting. To the contrary, those things are essential for a boy’s healthy development, physically and psychologically.

  59. @iffen

    Peter Brimelow, an anti-immigration activist who hosts a website that has published the writings of white supremacists, is suing The New York Times for $5 million for labeling him an “open white nationalist” in an article last year.
     
    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/09/brimelow-new-york-times-lawsuit-097095

    His only chance is to prove that he is not "open."

    It’ll be a tougher case because of his clear status as a public figure. That said, it will not be difficult to construct a definition for what the NYT defines as a “white nationalist”. That definition, whatever it is teased out to be, will clearly be entirely derogatory in the context of its usage in the NYT.

    If the paper, in non-editorial sections, labels someone using an entirely derogatory term that doesn’t accord with the person’s behavior and it can be shown to be intentionally malicious, that is defamation. Establishing the latter is the harder part, but given VDare’s long history and Brimelow’s even longer history, if he can show previous instances where he objected to the description as being defamatory–and I’m certain he can–he may win.

    He doesn’t have to win, though. He just needs the lawsuit not to be thrown out. Discovery in such a case will be utterly devastating for the NYT’s network–not just the NYT, but the countless journalists, activists, etc it communicates with–to an extent that even dissidents cannot fully appreciate.

    • Replies: @iffen
    he objected to the description as being defamatory–and I’m certain he can–he may win.
    I'm not going to go against you. Especially since you were right about Sandmann, and for which you should be taking a few victory laps. :)

    You elucidate the subject more fully. I was just looking at the WN question as a valid description of people like Brimelow. You are saying that the fact that he is a WN will not play into it because of the fact that the NYT uses it in a derogatory fashion. Won't he be in a postition of trying to prove that WN is not a "bad thing"?
  60. @Old Palo Altan
    Can't we use the lampposts anyway?

    We do not condone nor advocate violence here. Those who do so–implicitly, in the case of CNN–against children, are beneath contempt.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    Oh, I was just thinking of using them for my dogs ...
  61. @Audacious Epigone
    It'll be a tougher case because of his clear status as a public figure. That said, it will not be difficult to construct a definition for what the NYT defines as a "white nationalist". That definition, whatever it is teased out to be, will clearly be entirely derogatory in the context of its usage in the NYT.

    If the paper, in non-editorial sections, labels someone using an entirely derogatory term that doesn't accord with the person's behavior and it can be shown to be intentionally malicious, that is defamation. Establishing the latter is the harder part, but given VDare's long history and Brimelow's even longer history, if he can show previous instances where he objected to the description as being defamatory--and I'm certain he can--he may win.

    He doesn't have to win, though. He just needs the lawsuit not to be thrown out. Discovery in such a case will be utterly devastating for the NYT's network--not just the NYT, but the countless journalists, activists, etc it communicates with--to an extent that even dissidents cannot fully appreciate.

    he objected to the description as being defamatory–and I’m certain he can–he may win.
    I’m not going to go against you. Especially since you were right about Sandmann, and for which you should be taking a few victory laps. 🙂

    You elucidate the subject more fully. I was just looking at the WN question as a valid description of people like Brimelow. You are saying that the fact that he is a WN will not play into it because of the fact that the NYT uses it in a derogatory fashion. Won’t he be in a postition of trying to prove that WN is not a “bad thing”?

  62. In my amateur opinion, he is less likely to be successful than Sandmann primarily because of the public figure/private person distinction and the case law surrounding it. It’s also going to be a challenge to show economic harm at this point in Brimelow’s career. On the other hand, the NYT will definitely want the suit to be dismissed. Brimelow wins if it goes to court at all.

    The term itself needn’t be defamatory for its usage to be legally regarded as defamatory. A news organization repeatedly referring to a person as a Republican could conceivably be defamatory in certain contexts.

    • Replies: @iffen
    Brimelow wins if it goes to court at all.

    Let's hope that it does go to court.

    I think that it would definitely be a win for "our side," regardless of my personal view of Brimelow.
  63. @Audacious Epigone
    We do not condone nor advocate violence here. Those who do so--implicitly, in the case of CNN--against children, are beneath contempt.

    Oh, I was just thinking of using them for my dogs …

  64. @Audacious Epigone
    In my amateur opinion, he is less likely to be successful than Sandmann primarily because of the public figure/private person distinction and the case law surrounding it. It's also going to be a challenge to show economic harm at this point in Brimelow's career. On the other hand, the NYT will definitely want the suit to be dismissed. Brimelow wins if it goes to court at all.

    The term itself needn't be defamatory for its usage to be legally regarded as defamatory. A news organization repeatedly referring to a person as a Republican could conceivably be defamatory in certain contexts.

    Brimelow wins if it goes to court at all.

    Let’s hope that it does go to court.

    I think that it would definitely be a win for “our side,” regardless of my personal view of Brimelow.

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