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If you weren’t under a rock the past week, you will have heard that the New York Times finally went through with its threats to publish Scott Alexander’s real name in its write up about the Bay Area rationality community.

It was a disappointing effort, if not unpredictable. The author, Cade Metz, has no interest and took no interest in covering the most interesting and defining aspects of the rationality sphere (he is a normie… he wouldn’t get it). But he does kvetch a lot about how there is still a place on the Internet where high IQ people, mostly though not exclusively of liberal persuasions, gather to discuss topics that have been placed off limits. Or rather, gathered. For all of Metz’s labored efforts to tie down Scott Alexander to neoreactionaries “with racist beliefs”, the more banal reality is that there has been a soft ban on HBD topics at Scott’s blog since around 2017 – a timeline that syncs with my own observations of Bay Area culture (I did some presentations on futurism/IQ stuff to transhumanists in the early 2010s that received good responses… by 2016, I getting leaked reports that a couple of people felt “unsafe” around me). Nor is this observation something that’s specific to me. Cade Metz himself is good enough to link to a 2017 blog post by OpenAI chief executive Sam Altman, who observed that by then China was de facto freer than the US:

Earlier this year, I noticed something in China that really surprised me. I realized I felt more comfortable discussing controversial ideas in Beijing than in San Francisco. I didn’t feel completely comfortable—this was China, after all—just more comfortable than at home.

That showed me just how bad things have become, and how much things have changed since I first got started here in 2005.

Not that this belated attempt at disassociation ended up saving Scott Alexander.

Is this a big deal? Well certainly the New York Times printing the real name of a blogger who did not want it to be widely known, but who nonetheless doxed himself as Scott Siskind on the second post at his new Substack blog Astral Codex Ten, is pretty bad*. Then again, Pepe veteran Ricky Vaughn is being prosecuted essentially for posting memes on Twitter back in 2016. In this context, it’s hard to justify prioritizing this much.

Pro tip: Never explain yourself to SJWs. Unfortunately, Scott Alexander didn’t do that, instead opting to energetically disassociating himself from Charles Murray’s “offensive” views on race in his response to the NYT piece. This presumably being that Blacks have lower IQs than Whites, and that this is probably partly genetic. A view that is (1) mainstream amongst intelligence researchers, (2) is virtually unanimously backed by literally thousands of separate studies – probably the single most replicated result in psychology, and (3) centuries of stereotypes e.g. Ibn Khaldun.

Unfortunately, this flies in the face of several different public utterances, e.g. on IQ on Reddit:

My impression is that a Martian would consider “we shouldn’t study the genetics of race just in case it promotes racism, which can cause genocide” equally plausible to “we shouldn’t study the economics of inequality just in case it promotes communism, which can cause genocide” or “we shouldn’t study psychiatry, because we might learn some things that stigmatize people with psychiatric diseases, which can cause genocide”, or “we shouldn’t study evolution, because that could cast doubt on the Bible and destroy the moral foundations of our society, which could cause genocide”, or two hundred other possibilities along the same lines.

Since worrying about any of the others isn’t correlated with worrying about the race-science issue, I don’t think it’s a question of fixed cognitive styles. I think it’s just politics, pure and simple.

Or for that matter (his now deleted) travelogue as a doctor in Haiti with its rather blunt observations on the intellectual capacity of its denizens:

It has proven hard for me to appreciate exactly how confused the Haitians are about some things. Gail, our program director, explained that she has a lot of trouble with her Haitian office staff because they don’t understand the concept of sorting numerically. Not just “they don’t want to do it” or “it never occurred to them”, but after months and months of attempted explanation they don’t understand that sorting alphabetically or numerically is even a thing. Not only has this messed up her office work, but it makes dealing with the Haitian bureaucracy – harrowing at the best of times – positively unbearable. …

There are some doctors and nurses, who are just as bad – though none at our compound, which is run by this great charity that seems to be really on top of things. We heard horror stories of people graduating from nursing school without even knowing how to take a blood pressure – a nurse who used to work at the clinic would just make her blood pressure readings up, and give completely nonsensical numbers like “2/19”. That’s another thing. Haitians have a culture of tending not to admit they’re wrong, so when cornered this nurse absolutely insisted that the blood pressure had been 2/19 and made a big fuss out of it. There are supposed to be doctors who are not much better, although as I mentioned our doctors are great.

In a more public capacity, e.g. his posts at the main SSC, he has to be more circumspect, e.g. the Kolmogorov option of navigating social taboos:

Scott Aaronson writes about the the Kolmogorov option (suggested alternate title: “Kolmogorov complicity”). Mathematician Andrey Kolmogorov lived in the Soviet Union at a time when true freedom of thought was impossible. He reacted by saying whatever the Soviets wanted him to say about politics, while honorably pursuing truth in everything else. As a result, he not only made great discoveries, but gained enough status to protect other scientists, and to make occasional very careful forays into defending people who needed defending. He used his power to build an academic bubble where science could be done right and where minorities persecuted by the communist authorities (like Jews) could do their work in peace.

This is all code. Those who get it, get it – the Reds and the Red-pilled, who both “get it” but have rather different policy prescriptions on what to do about it. Sort of like how in the Strugatsky Brothers’ book The Inhabited Island – itself a crypto-critique of Soviet power – in which the only two factions party to the esoteric and maddening “truths” are the “Unknown Fathers” who rule the totalitarian regime of Saraksh, and the “dissidents” intent on overthrowing them. In both cases, normies have no idea what is going on.

Just to be clear, I don’t think there’s anything “wrong” with Scott Alexander “throwing” Charles Murray overboard. Free speech in the Bay Area has become greatly constricted over the past few years and Scott Alexander presumably wants to retain a social life and his career as a psychotherapist. Besides, Murray himself has “disavowed” people more “edgy” than he is on several occasions. It’s what I call the Great Chain of Respectability. Anyone at the ideological edge has a motivation to ostracize anyone more “extreme” than they are so that they end up on the safe side of the Overton window, where censorship and social risks are far smaller. And besides, there are situations where the disavowing comes from genuine and cardinal disagreements over facts, not concern over career consequences.

Another point I’d like to make is that the cat is definitively out of the bag on this issue, already spreading all over Twitter and various blogs, so I don’t think I’m being inappropriate by linking to all of these things which had hitherto only been “well-known in narrow circles.” These comments about Haitians and Martians and Kolmogorov etc. are going to be, are already being, dug up and propagated. Next up will probably be a campaign against Substack. It uses the Stripe payment system which is an SJW company**. At a minimum, I assume they’ll want them to evict Moldbug and Nick Land, not to mention the growing numbers of other NRxers and outright Alt Righters who have been discreetly moving over there in the past few months. It will be interesting to see if they will succeed.

***

* Scott Alexander’s real name was long an open secret, he never took great pains to hide it. The main issue, as SA describes it, is that as a psychotherapist it is best for patients not to know too much about the person tasked with treating them. While a few minutes of searching would link SA with SS, with a NYT piece on it, that would appear on the first page of a Google search.

** Fun esoteric Russian nationalist lore: Nationalist mag Sputnik & Pogrom was deplatformed by them, which made a significant contribution to Egor Prosvirnin folding up the project.

***

UPDATE: There has been a minor edit that doesn’t make a substantive difference to the gist of the post.

 
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  1. Please keep off topic posts to the current Open Thread.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

    Commenting rules. Please note that anonymous comments are not allowed.

  2. The rather limited ideological/racial discussions I have with domestic Chinese here at my university in Dalian would have me tossed out of the halls of the American academy in short order. As of last year, however, a growing number of white or J women were taking posts at the university (usually as English teachers) and attempting to police language in various social circles I was adjacent to. Linguistics requires a doctorate, so I was safely ensconced away from the ELA doghouse.

    The solution for a free academia is to keep the following groups out of it:

    -Jews
    -White Women

    With those two groups excluded, the organization will be able to innovate and police itself. With them, doom approaches. COVID has been a blessing keeping all those dumb cunts back in Santa Clarita or Lima Ohio or whatever bumfuck shitlib hellhole they came from.

    Their only useful moment in the past century was getting Trumpenstein out of office.

    • Replies: @lloyd
    @Supply and Demand

    Lewis Carrol opposed admitting women into the traditional British academies. England in his time was under the moral rules of an old German lady, a Merkel type, whom he appeared to satirise as the Queen of Hearts. Once politics becomes moral rather than economic or religious based then the feminine sensibilities take over. I recall experiences with women academics. "I once innocently said that admiring Classical culture was not per se racist. There was a shocked response. "White New Zealand replying." The academic who said that later threw a plate at my friend leaving him with physical and mental scars. Recently, I made an off remark, that I would love to teach in Turkey but I have a picture of myself stuck in a classroom with "fat Turkish boys". That was repeated back with disgust. But I only meant it literally.

    Replies: @Supply and Demand

    , @Kent Nationalist
    @Supply and Demand

    I commend you on your excellent comment.

    , @Dave Pinsen
    @Supply and Demand

    How was getting Trump out of office useful? In what way are you better off now?

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Supply and Demand

  3. Great post Anatoly. Somewhat related: did you read the recent opinion piece by Bogomolov (The Rapt of Europe 2.0, already named the “Bogomolov Manifesto” in the Russian Internet forums) and if you did, what do you think of it?

    I have read several opinions about this text (including Prosvirnin’s take about it on Telegram in which he sites your work and ideas). All of the opinions appear negative. Same with Soloviov / Shapiro throwing around remarks about how courageous Uncle Adi has been during WWI.

    Is it a new positioning of RusFed as the Noah’s Arc for conservatives?

    • Thanks: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @Bashibuzuk


    Is it a new positioning of RusFed as the Noah’s Arc for conservatives?
     
    I can't read Bogomolov but I wouldn't be surprised if awareness of the potential for this grows.

    I was reading background on Woke ideology the other week and was surprised that you don't need to go that far back to encounter straightforward Marxist/Hegelian stuff. So former Soviet countries should also be ahead of the curve on knowledge of the latest 'cutting edge' Western ideology.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

  4. As per Sam Altman’s comment on China…I don’t know about China as much, but I know Vietnamese who say that back home, as long as you don’t trash talk the government, they don’t really care what you do or say. I would imagine that the case is perhaps similar with China?

    I can definitely see that many overtly authoritarian systems could be more free than the “Free World”. Authoritarians just care about the party line. Totalitarians must control everything public and private.
    The Woke are totalitarian all the way.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @Barbarossa

    Centralized versus decentralized totalitarianism - the decentralized witch-hunting mob is quite a bit worse than one would imagine.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    , @lloyd
    @Barbarossa

    It was like that in China. To quote the inestimable Godfree Roberts. China was ruled by Colmar Brunton. There were three thought controlled subjects. The three ts, Taimaneon Square, Tibet, Taiwan. The first one, one never mentioned at all. The others one just toted the Party line and they were not perennial issues. Then Xi became President and things changed overnight. Politics is now taboo in the classrooms. It has not descended into prissiness and ridiculousness. However I have heard Xi has a mistress.

    Replies: @Supply and Demand

    , @reiner Tor
    @Barbarossa


    I know Vietnamese who say that back home, as long as you don’t trash talk the government
     
    Well they do complain (or used to complain) about rampant corruption, though never specifically about the top communist party leaders. I think it’s safe because it’s acknowledged as a problem by the party.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    , @Almost Missouri
    @Barbarossa

    That was my experience in the supposedly autocratic, oppressive Middle East. As long as you don't openly agitate against the regime (or Islam), you can pretty much say or do what you want. In a lot of ways, it was freer than the US. Even in arch-conservative Saudi Arabia.

    That said, I did know a South Asian guy who was hauled off by the police for speaking against the regime. As far as I could tell, he was denounced to the authorities by another South Asian guy who had some personal beef with him. He was cleared and released after about a week, but it can't have been pleasant.

  5. @Barbarossa
    As per Sam Altman's comment on China...I don't know about China as much, but I know Vietnamese who say that back home, as long as you don't trash talk the government, they don't really care what you do or say. I would imagine that the case is perhaps similar with China?

    I can definitely see that many overtly authoritarian systems could be more free than the "Free World". Authoritarians just care about the party line. Totalitarians must control everything public and private.
    The Woke are totalitarian all the way.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @lloyd, @reiner Tor, @Almost Missouri

    Centralized versus decentralized totalitarianism – the decentralized witch-hunting mob is quite a bit worse than one would imagine.

    • Agree: Bashibuzuk, Hyperdupont
    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Daniel Chieh

    Or even better, when the de-centralized witch hunting mob also gets full support from a centralized power center, which seems to be where we are increasingly headed. Probably the only way to stay sane in such a system is to inhabit the fringes.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

  6. this guy never wrote anything of value, so who cares. i’m puzzled why the HBD sphere thinks he was important.

    but yes, it is indeed true that many people all over the political spectrum are privately HBD aware, even if they deny it hard in public.

    • Replies: @Morton's toes
    @prime noticer


    who cares
     
    Tyler Cowen, Eric Weinstein, Scott Aaronson admit they care a lot. I bet Elon Musk has read a fourth of his blog posts. The man is a wimp but he has some powerful friends.

    The vast majority of his writing is silly. But. He is a psychiatrist and he writes openly about modern psychiatric issues and practice and if you are interested in those topics and you are not a psychiatrist his writing is essential to skim.

    The most interesting fallout to me is he now is in Walnut Creek. Unlike Berkeley and San Francisco, Walnut Creek is a very nice place. Almost no homeless people. Few negroes. Nobody relieving themselves on your front lawn. Five years from now he is going to look back at this crisis and wonder why he gave a damn. (I predict!)

    , @EldnahYm
    @prime noticer

    He's promoted for the same reason libertarians/Milton Friedman/Austrian economics/Ayn Rand enthusiasts were promoted a generation ago. Namely, to poison the well. Just read the New York Times article about him. Look at how many of the people named are either Jews or fags.

    Replies: @Ron Unz

    , @Alexander Turok
    @prime noticer

    It should be noted that he never to my knowledge denied any "HBD awareness," unlike Tyler Cowen. He simply ignored the question. The "soft ban" was always quite soft, nothing could be said in the open threads, but in the hidden open threads you could usually discuss the subject so long as it wasn't too blatant.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

  7. @Supply and Demand
    The rather limited ideological/racial discussions I have with domestic Chinese here at my university in Dalian would have me tossed out of the halls of the American academy in short order. As of last year, however, a growing number of white or J women were taking posts at the university (usually as English teachers) and attempting to police language in various social circles I was adjacent to. Linguistics requires a doctorate, so I was safely ensconced away from the ELA doghouse.

    The solution for a free academia is to keep the following groups out of it:

    -Jews
    -White Women

    With those two groups excluded, the organization will be able to innovate and police itself. With them, doom approaches. COVID has been a blessing keeping all those dumb cunts back in Santa Clarita or Lima Ohio or whatever bumfuck shitlib hellhole they came from.

    Their only useful moment in the past century was getting Trumpenstein out of office.

    Replies: @lloyd, @Kent Nationalist, @Dave Pinsen

    Lewis Carrol opposed admitting women into the traditional British academies. England in his time was under the moral rules of an old German lady, a Merkel type, whom he appeared to satirise as the Queen of Hearts. Once politics becomes moral rather than economic or religious based then the feminine sensibilities take over. I recall experiences with women academics. “I once innocently said that admiring Classical culture was not per se racist. There was a shocked response. “White New Zealand replying.” The academic who said that later threw a plate at my friend leaving him with physical and mental scars. Recently, I made an off remark, that I would love to teach in Turkey but I have a picture of myself stuck in a classroom with “fat Turkish boys”. That was repeated back with disgust. But I only meant it literally.

    • Replies: @Supply and Demand
    @lloyd

    Indeed. Thankfully the Middle Kingdom's distaste for Britain and its degenerate monarchy keeps them away from that most Victorian of ideologies -- feminism.

  8. I’m not sure you signal boosting this stuff hurts SA but certainly doesn’t help him.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    @SIMP simp

    That depends on the outcome.


    There's also lots, probably a plurality, of men who at some level know something is bad but again, they're risk averse and cant' just afford to make a stand and fight the system just yet, or at least think they can't. Those kinds of people are the exact target of a Ying Bu counter-op. We must deprive them of the choice of serving the enemy.

    This is not going to be pleasant. As Mao said, a Revolution isn't going out to dinner. It's a violent affair. Stratagem 33b hurts. It's brutal. Ying Bu's wives and children were all murdered by Xiang Yu. But he won, and he got new ones.

    Now, I don't expect the Left to go around murdering the wives and children of every competent engineer that we slander as being a Nazi with a Gab account. But there'll be some short-term financial damage. And probably a lot (a fucking lot) of divorces and personal trouble.

    But it'll all be for the better. Scott Alexander was forced out of polite society, but after some short-term pain he'll be happier and (way) wealthier than he could ever expect to be as a wage-cuck in the government healthcare system. And once his polyamorous friends have all ostracized him and he has no choice but to make new based friends… then he'll have to hit the gym, get fit and healthy and even look good. The horror!
     
    https://spandrell.com/2021/2/18/the-based-draft

    Replies: @Znzn, @Daniel Chieh, @Kratoklastes

    , @Tusk
    @SIMP simp

    Scott should go on the offensive now that he's back, in the open, and trying to move forward. To do that he shouldn't cower to any future attempts to smear him but rather simply be honest about what he believes and open to discussion on that. He already had to leave his old job, rearrange his life, sure there is still future stress but all things considered the popular support should be a rallying cry for those who want to honestly look at solving problems. The genie can't be put back in the bottle. I'm not going to say he's a cuck, but he should realise he's not going to just move on from this easily.

    , @Almost Missouri
    @SIMP simp

    Given that the Techarchs (Google, etc.) have delisted Unz.com, I doubt that anything anyone does here will affect Scott Alexander's search engine results.

  9. @Barbarossa
    As per Sam Altman's comment on China...I don't know about China as much, but I know Vietnamese who say that back home, as long as you don't trash talk the government, they don't really care what you do or say. I would imagine that the case is perhaps similar with China?

    I can definitely see that many overtly authoritarian systems could be more free than the "Free World". Authoritarians just care about the party line. Totalitarians must control everything public and private.
    The Woke are totalitarian all the way.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @lloyd, @reiner Tor, @Almost Missouri

    It was like that in China. To quote the inestimable Godfree Roberts. China was ruled by Colmar Brunton. There were three thought controlled subjects. The three ts, Taimaneon Square, Tibet, Taiwan. The first one, one never mentioned at all. The others one just toted the Party line and they were not perennial issues. Then Xi became President and things changed overnight. Politics is now taboo in the classrooms. It has not descended into prissiness and ridiculousness. However I have heard Xi has a mistress.

    • Replies: @Supply and Demand
    @lloyd

    Politics is not taboo in Chinese classrooms. My daughter's international school is teaching state-mandated Marxism curriculums to 7 year olds. Who told you this?

    Replies: @lloyd

  10. @SIMP simp
    I'm not sure you signal boosting this stuff hurts SA but certainly doesn't help him.

    Replies: @Mitleser, @Tusk, @Almost Missouri

    That depends on the outcome.

    There’s also lots, probably a plurality, of men who at some level know something is bad but again, they’re risk averse and cant’ just afford to make a stand and fight the system just yet, or at least think they can’t. Those kinds of people are the exact target of a Ying Bu counter-op. We must deprive them of the choice of serving the enemy.

    This is not going to be pleasant. As Mao said, a Revolution isn’t going out to dinner. It’s a violent affair. Stratagem 33b hurts. It’s brutal. Ying Bu’s wives and children were all murdered by Xiang Yu. But he won, and he got new ones.

    Now, I don’t expect the Left to go around murdering the wives and children of every competent engineer that we slander as being a Nazi with a Gab account. But there’ll be some short-term financial damage. And probably a lot (a fucking lot) of divorces and personal trouble.

    But it’ll all be for the better. Scott Alexander was forced out of polite society, but after some short-term pain he’ll be happier and (way) wealthier than he could ever expect to be as a wage-cuck in the government healthcare system. And once his polyamorous friends have all ostracized him and he has no choice but to make new based friends… then he’ll have to hit the gym, get fit and healthy and even look good. The horror!

    https://spandrell.com/2021/2/18/the-based-draft

    • Replies: @Znzn
    @Mitleser

    Like Kevin MacDonald and Giraldi?

    , @Daniel Chieh
    @Mitleser

    It'll be all good after he learns life is better with 20 bmi and a qt trad wife.

    , @Kratoklastes
    @Mitleser

    That "Bloody Shovel" link was really entertaining. I like the Ying Bu idea; I like it a lot.

    It's objectively superior to my own suggestion, which is infiltration and putting 'sand in the gears': talented people will make their way up the hierarchy quickly and be able to put sand in many gears.

    My suggestion is hard because of ideological filters at the HR level: in order to infiltrate you have to have a track record of saying only the right things, or nothing; as organised crime and gangs have known, if you want your guys in the military and police, it's better if they're cleanskins - but useful HBD cleanskins are really quite rare.

    Undermining senior WokeBorg by Ying Bu-ing them, though? That's exploiting the Little Eichmann's natural tendency: to parse everything they read using their Inner Richelieu -


    Qu'on me donne six lignes écrites de la main du plus honnête homme, j'y trouverai de quoi le faire pendre.

    If you give me six written lines from the hand of the most honest man, there I'll find something to get him hanged
     
    Such a beautiful stratagem. Given that most Little Eichmanns are midwits, they'll fall for it.
  11. @Mitleser
    @SIMP simp

    That depends on the outcome.


    There's also lots, probably a plurality, of men who at some level know something is bad but again, they're risk averse and cant' just afford to make a stand and fight the system just yet, or at least think they can't. Those kinds of people are the exact target of a Ying Bu counter-op. We must deprive them of the choice of serving the enemy.

    This is not going to be pleasant. As Mao said, a Revolution isn't going out to dinner. It's a violent affair. Stratagem 33b hurts. It's brutal. Ying Bu's wives and children were all murdered by Xiang Yu. But he won, and he got new ones.

    Now, I don't expect the Left to go around murdering the wives and children of every competent engineer that we slander as being a Nazi with a Gab account. But there'll be some short-term financial damage. And probably a lot (a fucking lot) of divorces and personal trouble.

    But it'll all be for the better. Scott Alexander was forced out of polite society, but after some short-term pain he'll be happier and (way) wealthier than he could ever expect to be as a wage-cuck in the government healthcare system. And once his polyamorous friends have all ostracized him and he has no choice but to make new based friends… then he'll have to hit the gym, get fit and healthy and even look good. The horror!
     
    https://spandrell.com/2021/2/18/the-based-draft

    Replies: @Znzn, @Daniel Chieh, @Kratoklastes

    Like Kevin MacDonald and Giraldi?

  12. @Mitleser
    @SIMP simp

    That depends on the outcome.


    There's also lots, probably a plurality, of men who at some level know something is bad but again, they're risk averse and cant' just afford to make a stand and fight the system just yet, or at least think they can't. Those kinds of people are the exact target of a Ying Bu counter-op. We must deprive them of the choice of serving the enemy.

    This is not going to be pleasant. As Mao said, a Revolution isn't going out to dinner. It's a violent affair. Stratagem 33b hurts. It's brutal. Ying Bu's wives and children were all murdered by Xiang Yu. But he won, and he got new ones.

    Now, I don't expect the Left to go around murdering the wives and children of every competent engineer that we slander as being a Nazi with a Gab account. But there'll be some short-term financial damage. And probably a lot (a fucking lot) of divorces and personal trouble.

    But it'll all be for the better. Scott Alexander was forced out of polite society, but after some short-term pain he'll be happier and (way) wealthier than he could ever expect to be as a wage-cuck in the government healthcare system. And once his polyamorous friends have all ostracized him and he has no choice but to make new based friends… then he'll have to hit the gym, get fit and healthy and even look good. The horror!
     
    https://spandrell.com/2021/2/18/the-based-draft

    Replies: @Znzn, @Daniel Chieh, @Kratoklastes

    It’ll be all good after he learns life is better with 20 bmi and a qt trad wife.

  13. @lloyd
    @Barbarossa

    It was like that in China. To quote the inestimable Godfree Roberts. China was ruled by Colmar Brunton. There were three thought controlled subjects. The three ts, Taimaneon Square, Tibet, Taiwan. The first one, one never mentioned at all. The others one just toted the Party line and they were not perennial issues. Then Xi became President and things changed overnight. Politics is now taboo in the classrooms. It has not descended into prissiness and ridiculousness. However I have heard Xi has a mistress.

    Replies: @Supply and Demand

    Politics is not taboo in Chinese classrooms. My daughter’s international school is teaching state-mandated Marxism curriculums to 7 year olds. Who told you this?

    • Replies: @lloyd
    @Supply and Demand

    Doctinaire Marxism is really a religion or a pseudo science. Prior to Xi, Marxism was becoming a dead religion. It was not mandated in classrooms or perhaps often ignored. A bit I suppose like masks in the Covid-19 era. However Xi is establishing a cult in China not seen since Mao whom he professes to follow. I taught in China for ten years.

  14. @lloyd
    @Supply and Demand

    Lewis Carrol opposed admitting women into the traditional British academies. England in his time was under the moral rules of an old German lady, a Merkel type, whom he appeared to satirise as the Queen of Hearts. Once politics becomes moral rather than economic or religious based then the feminine sensibilities take over. I recall experiences with women academics. "I once innocently said that admiring Classical culture was not per se racist. There was a shocked response. "White New Zealand replying." The academic who said that later threw a plate at my friend leaving him with physical and mental scars. Recently, I made an off remark, that I would love to teach in Turkey but I have a picture of myself stuck in a classroom with "fat Turkish boys". That was repeated back with disgust. But I only meant it literally.

    Replies: @Supply and Demand

    Indeed. Thankfully the Middle Kingdom’s distaste for Britain and its degenerate monarchy keeps them away from that most Victorian of ideologies — feminism.

  15. @Bashibuzuk
    Great post Anatoly. Somewhat related: did you read the recent opinion piece by Bogomolov (The Rapt of Europe 2.0, already named the "Bogomolov Manifesto" in the Russian Internet forums) and if you did, what do you think of it?

    I have read several opinions about this text (including Prosvirnin's take about it on Telegram in which he sites your work and ideas). All of the opinions appear negative. Same with Soloviov / Shapiro throwing around remarks about how courageous Uncle Adi has been during WWI.

    Is it a new positioning of RusFed as the Noah's Arc for conservatives?

    Replies: @Coconuts

    Is it a new positioning of RusFed as the Noah’s Arc for conservatives?

    I can’t read Bogomolov but I wouldn’t be surprised if awareness of the potential for this grows.

    I was reading background on Woke ideology the other week and was surprised that you don’t need to go that far back to encounter straightforward Marxist/Hegelian stuff. So former Soviet countries should also be ahead of the curve on knowledge of the latest ‘cutting edge’ Western ideology.

    • Agree: Bashibuzuk
    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @Coconuts

    I think many among those who lived under Communism are immunized against Wokism. The more it increases and the more we reject it.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Dmitry

  16. @Barbarossa
    As per Sam Altman's comment on China...I don't know about China as much, but I know Vietnamese who say that back home, as long as you don't trash talk the government, they don't really care what you do or say. I would imagine that the case is perhaps similar with China?

    I can definitely see that many overtly authoritarian systems could be more free than the "Free World". Authoritarians just care about the party line. Totalitarians must control everything public and private.
    The Woke are totalitarian all the way.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @lloyd, @reiner Tor, @Almost Missouri

    I know Vietnamese who say that back home, as long as you don’t trash talk the government

    Well they do complain (or used to complain) about rampant corruption, though never specifically about the top communist party leaders. I think it’s safe because it’s acknowledged as a problem by the party.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @reiner Tor

    Yes, they do say that corruption is a major feature. Greasing palms to get things done seems pretty normal. But once the right palms are greased it seems pretty simple to actually get things done.
    I would imagine you are right on why the government doesn't mind complaints about corruption, since it is not seen as a direct challenge to the regime itself.

  17. @Coconuts
    @Bashibuzuk


    Is it a new positioning of RusFed as the Noah’s Arc for conservatives?
     
    I can't read Bogomolov but I wouldn't be surprised if awareness of the potential for this grows.

    I was reading background on Woke ideology the other week and was surprised that you don't need to go that far back to encounter straightforward Marxist/Hegelian stuff. So former Soviet countries should also be ahead of the curve on knowledge of the latest 'cutting edge' Western ideology.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    I think many among those who lived under Communism are immunized against Wokism. The more it increases and the more we reject it.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @Bashibuzuk

    But they don’t matter, because within a few decades most of them will be dead.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    , @Dmitry
    @Bashibuzuk


    many among those who lived under Communism are immunized

     

    This immunization is, of course, mostly not an opposition to communism, but conformity to the surface values it taught, as well as (in relation to immigration) nostalgia of the times before immigrants were allowed free internal movement.

    The most awkward points of popular conflict of postcommunist societies to the West, are where late soviet ideology that most currently living citizens were still educated in, seems to directly conflict with current Western bourgeois ideologies - LGBT pride movements, acquiescence to US "imperialism", and a still uncynical Western belief in what seems like the illusion of multiparty governance.

    In the education, there is a rebranding of "soviet values" to "religious family values", to be a patriot, respect for work, to never lie , etc - but there is now less state capacity* for disseminating these ideals.

    Still I think the "immunization" will continue against Western ideologies, will continue, to the extent that the recent fashionable virtue-signalling Western ideologies, are not attractive for people with quite a different lifestyle and economic reality than exists outside of the Western countries (that is, outside of elite areas of elite cities in the non-West).


    -

    * In soviet times, "pioneer is the example to follow for all the guys", whereas today the government has little control on children after school, and teachers only have vague instructions on how to integrate the rebranded "religious moral values" into their lesson plans; the generation which was children and teenagers in the 1990s-2000s, was lazily watching television after school, the current teenagers of the 2010s are partly raised by YouTube, Instagram and Tiktok.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

  18. @prime noticer
    this guy never wrote anything of value, so who cares. i'm puzzled why the HBD sphere thinks he was important.

    but yes, it is indeed true that many people all over the political spectrum are privately HBD aware, even if they deny it hard in public.

    Replies: @Morton's toes, @EldnahYm, @Alexander Turok

    who cares

    Tyler Cowen, Eric Weinstein, Scott Aaronson admit they care a lot. I bet Elon Musk has read a fourth of his blog posts. The man is a wimp but he has some powerful friends.

    The vast majority of his writing is silly. But. He is a psychiatrist and he writes openly about modern psychiatric issues and practice and if you are interested in those topics and you are not a psychiatrist his writing is essential to skim.

    The most interesting fallout to me is he now is in Walnut Creek. Unlike Berkeley and San Francisco, Walnut Creek is a very nice place. Almost no homeless people. Few negroes. Nobody relieving themselves on your front lawn. Five years from now he is going to look back at this crisis and wonder why he gave a damn. (I predict!)

  19. @Supply and Demand
    @lloyd

    Politics is not taboo in Chinese classrooms. My daughter's international school is teaching state-mandated Marxism curriculums to 7 year olds. Who told you this?

    Replies: @lloyd

    Doctinaire Marxism is really a religion or a pseudo science. Prior to Xi, Marxism was becoming a dead religion. It was not mandated in classrooms or perhaps often ignored. A bit I suppose like masks in the Covid-19 era. However Xi is establishing a cult in China not seen since Mao whom he professes to follow. I taught in China for ten years.

  20. Well, I’d have to admit I don’t think I’ve ever read anything he’s written and had only been very vaguely aware of him prior to the big flap about his sudden departure from the Internet.

    My impression is that he tended to write half-way “edgy” quasi-HBD analysis, the sort of thing that virtually every intellectual in the world would have considered rather bland and milquetoast back fifty or sixty years ago. Didn’t that silly Jordan Peterson fellow become famous because he was “daring” enough to suggest that men might generally be a bit taller than women or something like that?

    Since some of the commenters here seem far more knowledgeable about Alexander, I wonder if they could provide links to three or four of his most interesting pieces so I could judge for myself if there’s any there there?

    • LOL: iffen
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    @Ron Unz


    My impression is that he tended to write half-way “edgy” quasi-HBD analysis...
     
    Probably about 5% of his output.

    Most famous work is probably this: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/

    Followed by this: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anything-except-the-outgroup/

    Probably my favorite "HBD" post is the review of Albion's Seed: http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/27/book-review-albions-seed/

    Lots of humor, e.g. the most recent one: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/list-of-fictional-cryptocurrencies

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Morton's toes

    , @Not Only Wrathful
    @Ron Unz

    Here are his top ten posts:

    https://slatestarcodex.com/about/

    , @Chrisnonymous
    @Ron Unz

    Do you read anyone associated with the rationalist movement, like Hanson or Yudkowsky or the Less Wrong blog? I would think your natural proclivities and association with Karlin and, previously, Khan would indicate yes.

    Replies: @Ron Unz, @utu

    , @Morton's toes
    @Ron Unz

    If you want to learn Scott-Alexanderology in a minimum amount of time I would begin here:

    https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/02/22/repost-the-non-libertarian-faq/

    https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/10/20/the-anti-reactionary-faq/

    https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/03/03/reactionary-philosophy-in-an-enormous-planet-sized-nutshell/

    If you wanted to learn Yudkowsky-Rationalism in a minimum amount of time I would suggest this is impossible. The word count on The Sequences + Harry Potter fanfic novel has got to be over 500 000 words. That is a rabbit hole labyrinth. It has a large overlap with Kurzweil singularity transhuman stuff though so most internet folk have probably been blasted with the bulk of the gist long ago.

    If anybody knows a good estimate word count on (The Sequences + Harry Potter fanfic novel) I would be curious to see that.

    Replies: @Ron Unz

    , @res
    @Ron Unz

    This tag might be worth perusing to see which (if any) of those controversial topics are up your alley.
    https://slatestarcodex.com/tag/things-i-will-regret-writing/

    , @Elsewhere
    @Ron Unz

    I've enjoyed this fictional short story of his: https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/10/30/sort-by-controversial/

    , @gabriel alberton
    @Ron Unz

    Scott Aaronson, the computer scientist, once said unironically that to many of his readers, and to himself, Scott Alexander deleting his blog would be like Mark Twain burning all his works.

    So Alexander's readers (including Aaronson) are silly. Perhaps appropriate for a psychiatrist. At least to my knowledge no one has implied that you deleting your website here would be anywhere near such a tragic loss, making Unz Review readers possibly significantly saner than Slate Star Codex readers.

    , @EldnahYm
    @Ron Unz

    One difference between the two is probably worth noting. Jordan Peterson is pretty transparently a grifter. I'm not sure that's true of Scott Alexander.

  21. 1. HBD is probably partially correct or at least very non-provably not-correct.

    Imagine being so pathetic that you say things like this.

    • Agree: songbird
  22. @Supply and Demand
    The rather limited ideological/racial discussions I have with domestic Chinese here at my university in Dalian would have me tossed out of the halls of the American academy in short order. As of last year, however, a growing number of white or J women were taking posts at the university (usually as English teachers) and attempting to police language in various social circles I was adjacent to. Linguistics requires a doctorate, so I was safely ensconced away from the ELA doghouse.

    The solution for a free academia is to keep the following groups out of it:

    -Jews
    -White Women

    With those two groups excluded, the organization will be able to innovate and police itself. With them, doom approaches. COVID has been a blessing keeping all those dumb cunts back in Santa Clarita or Lima Ohio or whatever bumfuck shitlib hellhole they came from.

    Their only useful moment in the past century was getting Trumpenstein out of office.

    Replies: @lloyd, @Kent Nationalist, @Dave Pinsen

    I commend you on your excellent comment.

  23. the Reds and the Red-pilled, who both “get it” but have rather different policy prescriptions on what to do about it. Sort of like how in the Strugatsky Brothers’ book The Inhabited Island – itself a crypto-critique of Soviet power – in which the only two factions party to the esoteric and maddening “truths” are the “Unknown Fathers” who rule the totalitarian regime of Saraksh, and the “dissidents” intent on overthrowing them. In both cases, normies have no idea what is going on.

    In other words only Jews and Nazis know what is going on, as a fellow Unz contributor has noted

    • Agree: Exile
  24. @Ron Unz
    Well, I'd have to admit I don't think I've ever read anything he's written and had only been very vaguely aware of him prior to the big flap about his sudden departure from the Internet.

    My impression is that he tended to write half-way "edgy" quasi-HBD analysis, the sort of thing that virtually every intellectual in the world would have considered rather bland and milquetoast back fifty or sixty years ago. Didn't that silly Jordan Peterson fellow become famous because he was "daring" enough to suggest that men might generally be a bit taller than women or something like that?

    Since some of the commenters here seem far more knowledgeable about Alexander, I wonder if they could provide links to three or four of his most interesting pieces so I could judge for myself if there's any there there?

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin, @Not Only Wrathful, @Chrisnonymous, @Morton's toes, @res, @Elsewhere, @gabriel alberton, @EldnahYm

    My impression is that he tended to write half-way “edgy” quasi-HBD analysis…

    Probably about 5% of his output.

    Most famous work is probably this: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/

    Followed by this: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anything-except-the-outgroup/

    Probably my favorite “HBD” post is the review of Albion’s Seed: http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/27/book-review-albions-seed/

    Lots of humor, e.g. the most recent one: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/list-of-fictional-cryptocurrencies

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @Anatoly Karlin

    I thought his short story about the last unenlightened man on earth was brilliant and hilarious. I shared it with some vaguely "spiritual" friends, as I thought they would enjoy it and find its ending "deep". I was hoping it would be a gateway drug to more SSC, which would be a gateway drug to actually being able to talk about political issues. Instead, they were silently disapproving, which I guess goes to show that independent thought and reasoning is a whole mode of existence, including its own aesthetics and humor.

    , @Morton's toes
    @Anatoly Karlin


    Probably my favorite “HBD” post is the review of Albion’s Seed:
     
    The Rationalists love that book. Appalachians do not. Elizier Yudkowsky on twitter back in 2017 wrote it would be a great idea to conduct overt biological warfare upon genetic Borderers. The writer of Albion's Seed seemed to enjoy quoting the French traveller who compared Appalachian food to pig slop. Something like "they eat what we feed to the pigs".

    Replies: @Wency, @EldnahYm

  25. @Ron Unz
    Well, I'd have to admit I don't think I've ever read anything he's written and had only been very vaguely aware of him prior to the big flap about his sudden departure from the Internet.

    My impression is that he tended to write half-way "edgy" quasi-HBD analysis, the sort of thing that virtually every intellectual in the world would have considered rather bland and milquetoast back fifty or sixty years ago. Didn't that silly Jordan Peterson fellow become famous because he was "daring" enough to suggest that men might generally be a bit taller than women or something like that?

    Since some of the commenters here seem far more knowledgeable about Alexander, I wonder if they could provide links to three or four of his most interesting pieces so I could judge for myself if there's any there there?

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin, @Not Only Wrathful, @Chrisnonymous, @Morton's toes, @res, @Elsewhere, @gabriel alberton, @EldnahYm

    Here are his top ten posts:

    https://slatestarcodex.com/about/

  26. @SIMP simp
    I'm not sure you signal boosting this stuff hurts SA but certainly doesn't help him.

    Replies: @Mitleser, @Tusk, @Almost Missouri

    Scott should go on the offensive now that he’s back, in the open, and trying to move forward. To do that he shouldn’t cower to any future attempts to smear him but rather simply be honest about what he believes and open to discussion on that. He already had to leave his old job, rearrange his life, sure there is still future stress but all things considered the popular support should be a rallying cry for those who want to honestly look at solving problems. The genie can’t be put back in the bottle. I’m not going to say he’s a cuck, but he should realise he’s not going to just move on from this easily.

  27. @Mitleser
    @SIMP simp

    That depends on the outcome.


    There's also lots, probably a plurality, of men who at some level know something is bad but again, they're risk averse and cant' just afford to make a stand and fight the system just yet, or at least think they can't. Those kinds of people are the exact target of a Ying Bu counter-op. We must deprive them of the choice of serving the enemy.

    This is not going to be pleasant. As Mao said, a Revolution isn't going out to dinner. It's a violent affair. Stratagem 33b hurts. It's brutal. Ying Bu's wives and children were all murdered by Xiang Yu. But he won, and he got new ones.

    Now, I don't expect the Left to go around murdering the wives and children of every competent engineer that we slander as being a Nazi with a Gab account. But there'll be some short-term financial damage. And probably a lot (a fucking lot) of divorces and personal trouble.

    But it'll all be for the better. Scott Alexander was forced out of polite society, but after some short-term pain he'll be happier and (way) wealthier than he could ever expect to be as a wage-cuck in the government healthcare system. And once his polyamorous friends have all ostracized him and he has no choice but to make new based friends… then he'll have to hit the gym, get fit and healthy and even look good. The horror!
     
    https://spandrell.com/2021/2/18/the-based-draft

    Replies: @Znzn, @Daniel Chieh, @Kratoklastes

    That “Bloody Shovel” link was really entertaining. I like the Ying Bu idea; I like it a lot.

    It’s objectively superior to my own suggestion, which is infiltration and putting ‘sand in the gears’: talented people will make their way up the hierarchy quickly and be able to put sand in many gears.

    My suggestion is hard because of ideological filters at the HR level: in order to infiltrate you have to have a track record of saying only the right things, or nothing; as organised crime and gangs have known, if you want your guys in the military and police, it’s better if they’re cleanskins – but useful HBD cleanskins are really quite rare.

    Undermining senior WokeBorg by Ying Bu-ing them, though? That’s exploiting the Little Eichmann‘s natural tendency: to parse everything they read using their Inner Richelieu

    Qu’on me donne six lignes écrites de la main du plus honnête homme, j’y trouverai de quoi le faire pendre.

    If you give me six written lines from the hand of the most honest man, there I’ll find something to get him hanged

    Such a beautiful stratagem. Given that most Little Eichmanns are midwits, they’ll fall for it.

  28. @Anatoly Karlin
    @Ron Unz


    My impression is that he tended to write half-way “edgy” quasi-HBD analysis...
     
    Probably about 5% of his output.

    Most famous work is probably this: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/

    Followed by this: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anything-except-the-outgroup/

    Probably my favorite "HBD" post is the review of Albion's Seed: http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/27/book-review-albions-seed/

    Lots of humor, e.g. the most recent one: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/list-of-fictional-cryptocurrencies

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Morton's toes

    I thought his short story about the last unenlightened man on earth was brilliant and hilarious. I shared it with some vaguely “spiritual” friends, as I thought they would enjoy it and find its ending “deep”. I was hoping it would be a gateway drug to more SSC, which would be a gateway drug to actually being able to talk about political issues. Instead, they were silently disapproving, which I guess goes to show that independent thought and reasoning is a whole mode of existence, including its own aesthetics and humor.

  29. @Ron Unz
    Well, I'd have to admit I don't think I've ever read anything he's written and had only been very vaguely aware of him prior to the big flap about his sudden departure from the Internet.

    My impression is that he tended to write half-way "edgy" quasi-HBD analysis, the sort of thing that virtually every intellectual in the world would have considered rather bland and milquetoast back fifty or sixty years ago. Didn't that silly Jordan Peterson fellow become famous because he was "daring" enough to suggest that men might generally be a bit taller than women or something like that?

    Since some of the commenters here seem far more knowledgeable about Alexander, I wonder if they could provide links to three or four of his most interesting pieces so I could judge for myself if there's any there there?

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin, @Not Only Wrathful, @Chrisnonymous, @Morton's toes, @res, @Elsewhere, @gabriel alberton, @EldnahYm

    Do you read anyone associated with the rationalist movement, like Hanson or Yudkowsky or the Less Wrong blog? I would think your natural proclivities and association with Karlin and, previously, Khan would indicate yes.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    @Chrisnonymous


    Do you read anyone associated with the rationalist movement, like Hanson or Yudkowsky or the Less Wrong blog? I would think your natural proclivities and association with Karlin and, previously, Khan would indicate yes.
     
    Not really. In fact, I'm not sure I've ever heard of any of them.

    I thought his short story about the last unenlightened man on earth was brilliant and hilarious. I shared it with some vaguely “spiritual” friends, as I thought they would enjoy it and find its ending “deep”. I was hoping it would be a gateway drug to more SSC, which would be a gateway drug to actually being able to talk about political issues.
     
    That's the thing. I'm just not into "gateway drugs" providing vague and tangential allusions to "controversial" political issues. I'd rather just discuss the political issues directly. That's why I often much prefer books from many decades ago, when such topics were sometimes discussed in very straightforward terms.

    Most of my articles deal with very factual issues of science, sociology, or history, and I enjoy attempting to solve factual puzzles in those fields rather than just windy philosophizing.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief, @Chrisnonymous, @Hmmmr

    , @utu
    @Chrisnonymous

    Never heard of Yudkowsky and 'the rationalist movement'. Did some search and the picture that emerged is that Yudkowsky is clearly a charlatan in the process of forming a profitable cult like movement and organization targeting Silicon Valley not dissimilar from the L. Ron Hubbard strategy of targeting Hollywood or Ayn Rand targeting NYC intelligentsia orphaned by Trotsky and Stalin deaths. That's were the money is. Yudkowsky gets funding from techno-libertarianism like Peter Thiel. While Hanson is with Mason University that is generously funded by Koch brothers.

    Yudkowsky in his youth during the dot-com bubble allegedly did some coding hoping to get rich. But it came to nothing.


    https://web.archive.org/web/20010205221413/http://sysopmind.com/eliezer.html#timeline_the
    "For two years, from late sixteen through late eighteen, I tried writing a commodities-trading program, by request, for a friend. Eventually I realized that trying to outprogram the stuff already on the market was three years of work for a full team of programmers"

    "Why'd I take on a quixotic project, a tenuous gamble like that? Well, partially because it was there. It was something to do, something I could show my parents that I was doing. And it proved to me that, setting my own hours, and armed with knowledge of how my mind worked, I could work on something for two years without breaking. Part of it was also the immense payoff that a successful trading program would have meant; since childhood, I'd always imagined myself becoming rich first, then funding my own dreams."
     
    He has never completed any tangible project. He discovered that he was a better talker than doer. He realized he could persuade other people to fund him.

    After a while, I admitted to myself that "getting rich and funding everything personally" might be the most emotionally satisfying way to imagine it - the way I'd happened to picture it back in my childhood, when my core dreams were being formed - but it wasn't the fastest and most solid way from point A to point B.
     
    His Machine Intelligence Research Institute (MIRI) is funded by Open Philanthropy ($3-$4 mil per year). His Center for Applied Rationality (CFAR) is funded by Open Philanthropy ($500k), Berkeley Existential Risk Initiative ($300k) and others.

    Then there are LessWrong, Summer Program on Applied Rationality and Cognition (SPARC) and European Summer Program on Rationality (ESPR) that are funded separately.

    He does what libertarians always do for plutocracy and oligarchy:

    Robot Cultist Eliezer Yudkowsky's Ugly Celebration of Plutocracy
    https://amormundi.blogspot.com/2016/01/robot-cultist-eliezer-yudkowskys-ugly.html
     
    The incident of Roko's Basilisk exemplify the best the absurdity of Yudovsky's intellectual universe:
    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/LessWrong#cite_note-61

    Apparently the Roko's Basilisk incident alienated "the head choppers" fellow cryonicists which are somewhere there in the bizarre constellation of libertarian transhumanists.

    Everybody Freeze!
    https://thebaffler.com/salvos/everybody-freeze-pein

    What did change, thanks to the tech bubble, was the combined net worth of the Silicon Valley software engineers who are in the demographic sweet spot of the Alcor business model. Here were young people possessed of the lust for eternal life, who required no PR blitzes to persuade them of technology’s ability to overcome the brute empirical facts of the human condition—many with the outsize ego to cast themselves as Christlike figures awaiting resurrection and the ample self-confidence to ignore all naysayers.

    A self-styled Nietzschean “overman,” More, now fifty-two, achieved geek-world fame as the bodybuilding “strategic philosopher” of the 1990s “extropian” movement. More’s journal, Extropy, promoted seafaring secessionism long before Peter Thiel’s Seasteading Institute hit the scene. It extolled the subversive potential of digital currencies before Bitcoin was a twinkle in Satoshi Nakamoto’s eye. It denounced, with eerie glee, environmentalists, “statists,” and “deathist” cryonics critics who threatened the transhuman future.

    “The abolition of aging and, finally, all causes of death, is essential,” More wrote. Inspired by Nietzsche and Ayn Rand, he held that “transhumanism” was the next great leap in rationalized selfishness, and a necessary corrective to the “outdated values and ideas” of humanism. A fellow extropian, the cryptography pioneer Perry Metzger, formed an email list that was separate yet closely connected to the magazine.
     
    One good thing is that now I understand better where AK was coming from when I have encountered him here at the UR and I am hoping that he grew out of that nonsense.

    Replies: @Ron Unz, @Chrisnonymous

  30. @Chrisnonymous
    @Ron Unz

    Do you read anyone associated with the rationalist movement, like Hanson or Yudkowsky or the Less Wrong blog? I would think your natural proclivities and association with Karlin and, previously, Khan would indicate yes.

    Replies: @Ron Unz, @utu

    Do you read anyone associated with the rationalist movement, like Hanson or Yudkowsky or the Less Wrong blog? I would think your natural proclivities and association with Karlin and, previously, Khan would indicate yes.

    Not really. In fact, I’m not sure I’ve ever heard of any of them.

    I thought his short story about the last unenlightened man on earth was brilliant and hilarious. I shared it with some vaguely “spiritual” friends, as I thought they would enjoy it and find its ending “deep”. I was hoping it would be a gateway drug to more SSC, which would be a gateway drug to actually being able to talk about political issues.

    That’s the thing. I’m just not into “gateway drugs” providing vague and tangential allusions to “controversial” political issues. I’d rather just discuss the political issues directly. That’s why I often much prefer books from many decades ago, when such topics were sometimes discussed in very straightforward terms.

    Most of my articles deal with very factual issues of science, sociology, or history, and I enjoy attempting to solve factual puzzles in those fields rather than just windy philosophizing.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    @Ron Unz


    rather than just windy philosophizing
     
    The answer my friend is - blowing in the wind.

    (Wind brought with him the spirits and thus - enlivened all of the material worlds. And that's why we breathe - and - are nowadays).

    Warning: These lines above can quite easily be misunderstood as not really sincere for they touch a realm where laughter, ghosts, and inspiration share a square.

    , @Chrisnonymous
    @Ron Unz

    Yes, of course. But you are smart and an independent thinker. Other people not so much!

    , @Hmmmr
    @Ron Unz

    > Not really. In fact, I’m not sure I’ve ever heard of any of them.

    This comment and the other one about never having read a single article of Scott Alexander is the most surprising thing I’ve read all week.

    For a guy that runs a weird corner of the internet that is unz.com you would think that other places of the “intellectual dark web” would be known to you.

    Replies: @Ron Unz

  31. @Anatoly Karlin
    @Ron Unz


    My impression is that he tended to write half-way “edgy” quasi-HBD analysis...
     
    Probably about 5% of his output.

    Most famous work is probably this: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/

    Followed by this: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anything-except-the-outgroup/

    Probably my favorite "HBD" post is the review of Albion's Seed: http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/27/book-review-albions-seed/

    Lots of humor, e.g. the most recent one: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/list-of-fictional-cryptocurrencies

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Morton's toes

    Probably my favorite “HBD” post is the review of Albion’s Seed:

    The Rationalists love that book. Appalachians do not. Elizier Yudkowsky on twitter back in 2017 wrote it would be a great idea to conduct overt biological warfare upon genetic Borderers. The writer of Albion’s Seed seemed to enjoy quoting the French traveller who compared Appalachian food to pig slop. Something like “they eat what we feed to the pigs”.

    • Replies: @Wency
    @Morton's toes

    It seems to me Yudkowsky is entirely without merit. I don't really understand his elevated status. Has he ever said anything interesting, thought-provoking, and true? The fact that his magnum opus is a Harry Potter fanfic seems like it should be all we need to say about the guy. And yet Scott Alexander, whom I actually enjoy reading, seems to take him seriously.

    Scott is sort of two men in one. On one hand is the intellectually curious and incisive writer, capable far more than most men of setting aside biases in honest pursuit of truth, and to communicate it in a way that is intelligent and enjoyable without being smug. I think this is Scott's rational self.

    But his irrational self, his heart of hearts, is an omega who reads Harry Potter fanfic and buys into all the most ridiculous Woke views on the mutability of sexuality and whose disgusting girlfriend still insisted on keeping other lovers, and he was cool with it, and then she dumped him anyway, and he took it hard but also stayed friends with her. He's a leftist deep in his core, and he wants fellow leftists to love and respect him because he wants everything they want except the puritanical drive to burn heretics like himself at the stake. Which, alas for him, is increasingly all that drives them anymore.

    Replies: @Not Only Wrathful, @EldnahYm, @Not Raul, @Alexander Turok

    , @EldnahYm
    @Morton's toes


    The writer of Albion’s Seed seemed to enjoy quoting the French traveller who compared Appalachian food to pig slop. Something like “they eat what we feed to the pigs”.
     
    I believe that's from the diary of Louis Philippe, former king of France.
  32. AK’s “never cuck” advice is sound. There is no upside.

    The people you’re trying to purchase mercy from simply see it as an admission of guilt and those you’re under-bussing will rightly consider you a traitor.

    Cucking in these situations means you’re still a Nazi and you have no friends.

    Being a Nazi is much better with friends. Don’t feed a potential friend to the PC meat-grinder thinking you’re going to save yourself.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
  33. @reiner Tor
    @Barbarossa


    I know Vietnamese who say that back home, as long as you don’t trash talk the government
     
    Well they do complain (or used to complain) about rampant corruption, though never specifically about the top communist party leaders. I think it’s safe because it’s acknowledged as a problem by the party.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    Yes, they do say that corruption is a major feature. Greasing palms to get things done seems pretty normal. But once the right palms are greased it seems pretty simple to actually get things done.
    I would imagine you are right on why the government doesn’t mind complaints about corruption, since it is not seen as a direct challenge to the regime itself.

  34. @Bashibuzuk
    @Coconuts

    I think many among those who lived under Communism are immunized against Wokism. The more it increases and the more we reject it.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Dmitry

    But they don’t matter, because within a few decades most of them will be dead.

    • Agree: Bashibuzuk
    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @reiner Tor

    Also partly because in Western academia and left wing circles it seems like they have already been airbrushed out or pushed down the memory hole. As if there is some kind of tacit agreement to draw a veil over that whole part of history; nothing to see there.

  35. @Supply and Demand
    The rather limited ideological/racial discussions I have with domestic Chinese here at my university in Dalian would have me tossed out of the halls of the American academy in short order. As of last year, however, a growing number of white or J women were taking posts at the university (usually as English teachers) and attempting to police language in various social circles I was adjacent to. Linguistics requires a doctorate, so I was safely ensconced away from the ELA doghouse.

    The solution for a free academia is to keep the following groups out of it:

    -Jews
    -White Women

    With those two groups excluded, the organization will be able to innovate and police itself. With them, doom approaches. COVID has been a blessing keeping all those dumb cunts back in Santa Clarita or Lima Ohio or whatever bumfuck shitlib hellhole they came from.

    Their only useful moment in the past century was getting Trumpenstein out of office.

    Replies: @lloyd, @Kent Nationalist, @Dave Pinsen

    How was getting Trump out of office useful? In what way are you better off now?

    • Agree: Leander Starr
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @Dave Pinsen

    Even where Trump seemed markedly worse than his enemies (the Iran Deal), it turns out that his policies represent the new consensus. So really nothing is better and lots of things are worse.

    Replies: @HyperDupont, @Mikel, @Dave Pinsen

    , @Supply and Demand
    @Dave Pinsen

    I live in China, Mr. Pinsen. Trump going after China before taming domestic Wall Street Jews was pure idiocy and a form of reactionary politics I hope America grows out of.

    That said it appears the pied piper of Israel is still leading his little minions. Hopefully the Dems grow some balls and start locking them up in re-education camps like China's Uighurs.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

  36. @Dave Pinsen
    @Supply and Demand

    How was getting Trump out of office useful? In what way are you better off now?

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Supply and Demand

    Even where Trump seemed markedly worse than his enemies (the Iran Deal), it turns out that his policies represent the new consensus. So really nothing is better and lots of things are worse.

    • Agree: AltanBakshi
    • Replies: @HyperDupont
    @reiner Tor

    What is better is that now there is no illusion regarding who is really in charge, whereas previously Trump controlled at best 5% of what the regime was doing. Now they own Afghanistan, Iraq, decaying infrastructure, inept bureaucracies, crime, K to 12 and Higher education administrative bloat, cost disease/propaganda... Obviously, the NYT will blame everything on Republican obstructionism, but it won't convince most normies.

    , @Mikel
    @reiner Tor


    So really nothing is better and lots of things are worse.
     
    Some things are worse, even at a personal level: a neighbor lost his good-paying job in the Dakotas, gasoline went up 18%, cancel culture and wokeism have intensified,... all of this in just one month.

    But a few things are better too: the US-Russian arms treaty was extended and Biden doesn't need to prove all the time that he is not a Putin stooge so relations with Russia might actually improve a little. Even on the Iran front, a new deal could be possible if the Europeans pushed for it. However, the Europeans being what they are, I wouldn't count on that.

    Replies: @Supply and Demand

    , @Dave Pinsen
    @reiner Tor

    Trump's policies don't represent the new consensus.

    Biden already reversed Trump's cancelation of Critical Race Theory struggle sessions in the federal government and is reversing Trump's immigration polices.

    https://twitter.com/dpinsen/status/1357450743461068804?s=20

  37. Based on the title, I was expecting to read about Scott Alexander’s support for Bitcoin or Ethereum, so I’m a little disappointed.

    • LOL: Anatoly Karlin
  38. @reiner Tor
    @Bashibuzuk

    But they don’t matter, because within a few decades most of them will be dead.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    Also partly because in Western academia and left wing circles it seems like they have already been airbrushed out or pushed down the memory hole. As if there is some kind of tacit agreement to draw a veil over that whole part of history; nothing to see there.

    • Agree: Bashibuzuk
  39. @Ron Unz
    @Chrisnonymous


    Do you read anyone associated with the rationalist movement, like Hanson or Yudkowsky or the Less Wrong blog? I would think your natural proclivities and association with Karlin and, previously, Khan would indicate yes.
     
    Not really. In fact, I'm not sure I've ever heard of any of them.

    I thought his short story about the last unenlightened man on earth was brilliant and hilarious. I shared it with some vaguely “spiritual” friends, as I thought they would enjoy it and find its ending “deep”. I was hoping it would be a gateway drug to more SSC, which would be a gateway drug to actually being able to talk about political issues.
     
    That's the thing. I'm just not into "gateway drugs" providing vague and tangential allusions to "controversial" political issues. I'd rather just discuss the political issues directly. That's why I often much prefer books from many decades ago, when such topics were sometimes discussed in very straightforward terms.

    Most of my articles deal with very factual issues of science, sociology, or history, and I enjoy attempting to solve factual puzzles in those fields rather than just windy philosophizing.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief, @Chrisnonymous, @Hmmmr

    rather than just windy philosophizing

    The answer my friend is – blowing in the wind.

    (Wind brought with him the spirits and thus – enlivened all of the material worlds. And that’s why we breathe – and – are nowadays).

    Warning: These lines above can quite easily be misunderstood as not really sincere for they touch a realm where laughter, ghosts, and inspiration share a square.

  40. @Daniel Chieh
    @Barbarossa

    Centralized versus decentralized totalitarianism - the decentralized witch-hunting mob is quite a bit worse than one would imagine.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    Or even better, when the de-centralized witch hunting mob also gets full support from a centralized power center, which seems to be where we are increasingly headed. Probably the only way to stay sane in such a system is to inhabit the fringes.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @Barbarossa

    Its probably not a very stable system.

  41. @reiner Tor
    @Dave Pinsen

    Even where Trump seemed markedly worse than his enemies (the Iran Deal), it turns out that his policies represent the new consensus. So really nothing is better and lots of things are worse.

    Replies: @HyperDupont, @Mikel, @Dave Pinsen

    What is better is that now there is no illusion regarding who is really in charge, whereas previously Trump controlled at best 5% of what the regime was doing. Now they own Afghanistan, Iraq, decaying infrastructure, inept bureaucracies, crime, K to 12 and Higher education administrative bloat, cost disease/propaganda… Obviously, the NYT will blame everything on Republican obstructionism, but it won’t convince most normies.

    • Agree: AltanBakshi
  42. @Dave Pinsen
    @Supply and Demand

    How was getting Trump out of office useful? In what way are you better off now?

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Supply and Demand

    I live in China, Mr. Pinsen. Trump going after China before taming domestic Wall Street Jews was pure idiocy and a form of reactionary politics I hope America grows out of.

    That said it appears the pied piper of Israel is still leading his little minions. Hopefully the Dems grow some balls and start locking them up in re-education camps like China’s Uighurs.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @Supply and Demand

    Trump imposing tariffs on China was a long overdue correction to a decades-long folly by American elites. But he was a protectionist, not a warmonger. Team Biden is more likely to gin up a Cold War with China, which, given their incompetence, may lead to a hot war.

    https://twitter.com/acczibit/status/1344747663703617537?s=20

    Not sure who the pied piper you're referring to is.

    Replies: @Kent Nationalist

  43. @Barbarossa
    @Daniel Chieh

    Or even better, when the de-centralized witch hunting mob also gets full support from a centralized power center, which seems to be where we are increasingly headed. Probably the only way to stay sane in such a system is to inhabit the fringes.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    Its probably not a very stable system.

  44. Lately, I’ve come to appreciate crypto-HBD.

    Of course, I think it encourages people to think for themselves, but I also like it on a personal level because, if you come at it from an HBD angle, then it is very thought-provoking without containing the extremely tedious disclaimers that real, mainstream HBD, like A Troublesome Inheritance, are inevitably full of today. And openly HBD books are very rare too – not published frequently – it is good to have crypto-HBD as a supplement to them.

  45. @Ron Unz
    Well, I'd have to admit I don't think I've ever read anything he's written and had only been very vaguely aware of him prior to the big flap about his sudden departure from the Internet.

    My impression is that he tended to write half-way "edgy" quasi-HBD analysis, the sort of thing that virtually every intellectual in the world would have considered rather bland and milquetoast back fifty or sixty years ago. Didn't that silly Jordan Peterson fellow become famous because he was "daring" enough to suggest that men might generally be a bit taller than women or something like that?

    Since some of the commenters here seem far more knowledgeable about Alexander, I wonder if they could provide links to three or four of his most interesting pieces so I could judge for myself if there's any there there?

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin, @Not Only Wrathful, @Chrisnonymous, @Morton's toes, @res, @Elsewhere, @gabriel alberton, @EldnahYm

    If you want to learn Scott-Alexanderology in a minimum amount of time I would begin here:

    https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/02/22/repost-the-non-libertarian-faq/

    https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/10/20/the-anti-reactionary-faq/

    https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/03/03/reactionary-philosophy-in-an-enormous-planet-sized-nutshell/

    If you wanted to learn Yudkowsky-Rationalism in a minimum amount of time I would suggest this is impossible. The word count on The Sequences + Harry Potter fanfic novel has got to be over 500 000 words. That is a rabbit hole labyrinth. It has a large overlap with Kurzweil singularity transhuman stuff though so most internet folk have probably been blasted with the bulk of the gist long ago.

    If anybody knows a good estimate word count on (The Sequences + Harry Potter fanfic novel) I would be curious to see that.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    @Morton's toes


    If you want to learn Scott-Alexanderology in a minimum amount of time I would begin here:
     
    Well, I glanced over those pieces, as well as a few of the others linked earlier. Perhaps it's just my blindness, but I wasn't at all impressed. All the pieces seem like many tens of thousands of words of vague, windy philosophizing, usually divorced from solid material, or at least the solid material was diluted by an endless sea of verbiage.

    It brings to mind what people sometimes used to call "college bull sessions" except that I remember my own college dinner-table discussions being far more focused and serious.

    My impression is that it's the sort of thing you write if you want to be "edgy" but still stay away from "dangerous" subjects like Race or "conspiracy theories" or the true history of the Twentieth century. I find it difficult to believe that any credible scholar would take it seriously.

    If you wanted to learn Yudkowsky-Rationalism in a minimum amount of time I would suggest this is impossible. The word count on The Sequences + Harry Potter fanfic novel has got to be over 500 000 words. That is a rabbit hole labyrinth. It has a large overlap with Kurzweil singularity transhuman stuff though so most internet folk have probably been blasted with the bulk of the gist long ago.
     
    Yep, 500,000 words(!) of Harry Potter fanfic. That's exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about.

    Just out of curiosity, I took the wordcount of a few of the long Alexander "posts", and each came to over 30,000 words(!).

    Meanwhile, over the last year or so I've published long articles on the true history of World War II, the "conspiracy theories" of the JFK Assassination/9-11 Attacks, and the intellectual history of American White Racialism, and each has run well under 30,000 words:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-understanding-world-war-ii/

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-mossad-assassinations/

    https://www.unz.com/runz/white-racialism-in-america-then-and-now/

    My very detailed analysis of American Meritocracy from a few years ago was also of the same length:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/the-myth-of-american-meritocracy/

    Somehow I regard those as more serious and substantive works. Though I'd have to admit that Harry Potter is probably far more popular...
  46. @Ron Unz
    @Chrisnonymous


    Do you read anyone associated with the rationalist movement, like Hanson or Yudkowsky or the Less Wrong blog? I would think your natural proclivities and association with Karlin and, previously, Khan would indicate yes.
     
    Not really. In fact, I'm not sure I've ever heard of any of them.

    I thought his short story about the last unenlightened man on earth was brilliant and hilarious. I shared it with some vaguely “spiritual” friends, as I thought they would enjoy it and find its ending “deep”. I was hoping it would be a gateway drug to more SSC, which would be a gateway drug to actually being able to talk about political issues.
     
    That's the thing. I'm just not into "gateway drugs" providing vague and tangential allusions to "controversial" political issues. I'd rather just discuss the political issues directly. That's why I often much prefer books from many decades ago, when such topics were sometimes discussed in very straightforward terms.

    Most of my articles deal with very factual issues of science, sociology, or history, and I enjoy attempting to solve factual puzzles in those fields rather than just windy philosophizing.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief, @Chrisnonymous, @Hmmmr

    Yes, of course. But you are smart and an independent thinker. Other people not so much!

  47. @Morton's toes
    @Anatoly Karlin


    Probably my favorite “HBD” post is the review of Albion’s Seed:
     
    The Rationalists love that book. Appalachians do not. Elizier Yudkowsky on twitter back in 2017 wrote it would be a great idea to conduct overt biological warfare upon genetic Borderers. The writer of Albion's Seed seemed to enjoy quoting the French traveller who compared Appalachian food to pig slop. Something like "they eat what we feed to the pigs".

    Replies: @Wency, @EldnahYm

    It seems to me Yudkowsky is entirely without merit. I don’t really understand his elevated status. Has he ever said anything interesting, thought-provoking, and true? The fact that his magnum opus is a Harry Potter fanfic seems like it should be all we need to say about the guy. And yet Scott Alexander, whom I actually enjoy reading, seems to take him seriously.

    Scott is sort of two men in one. On one hand is the intellectually curious and incisive writer, capable far more than most men of setting aside biases in honest pursuit of truth, and to communicate it in a way that is intelligent and enjoyable without being smug. I think this is Scott’s rational self.

    But his irrational self, his heart of hearts, is an omega who reads Harry Potter fanfic and buys into all the most ridiculous Woke views on the mutability of sexuality and whose disgusting girlfriend still insisted on keeping other lovers, and he was cool with it, and then she dumped him anyway, and he took it hard but also stayed friends with her. He’s a leftist deep in his core, and he wants fellow leftists to love and respect him because he wants everything they want except the puritanical drive to burn heretics like himself at the stake. Which, alas for him, is increasingly all that drives them anymore.

    • Agree: Not Raul
    • Replies: @Not Only Wrathful
    @Wency


    buys into all the most ridiculous Woke views on the mutability of sexuality
     
    Woke people think sexuality is, on some level, a choice? I don't think so.

    Sexuality is spiritual and clearly isn't genetic or directly biological; but the anxious of both right and left deceive themselves otherwise as it helps them to be simple and ignorant.

    Replies: @Wency

    , @EldnahYm
    @Wency


    It seems to me Yudkowsky is entirely without merit. I don’t really understand his elevated status.
     
    You can't understand why a nutty Jew is being promoted by other Jews and nutcases?
    , @Not Raul
    @Wency


    It seems to me Yudkowsky is entirely without merit. I don’t really understand his elevated status. Has he ever said anything interesting, thought-provoking, and true? The fact that his magnum opus is a Harry Potter fanfic seems like it should be all we need to say about the guy. And yet Scott Alexander, whom I actually enjoy reading, seems to take him seriously.
     
    Lots of people take that idiot seriously, and it drives me crazy.
    , @Alexander Turok
    @Wency


    Scott is sort of two men in one. On one hand is the intellectually curious and incisive writer, capable far more than most men of setting aside biases in honest pursuit of truth, and to communicate it in a way that is intelligent and enjoyable without being smug. I think this is Scott’s rational self.

    But his irrational self, his heart of hearts, is an omega who reads Harry Potter fanfic and buys into all the most ridiculous Woke views on the mutability of sexuality and whose disgusting girlfriend still insisted on keeping other lovers, and he was cool with it, and then she dumped him anyway, and he took it hard but also stayed friends with her.
     
    I don't know if your second paragraph is true or not, but if it is, where's the contradiction? Men put up with all kinds of [fill in the blank] from women, it has little bearing on their intellectual value. The alternative is often... https://imgur.com/a/NoQ9XXR

    Replies: @Wency

  48. @reiner Tor
    @Dave Pinsen

    Even where Trump seemed markedly worse than his enemies (the Iran Deal), it turns out that his policies represent the new consensus. So really nothing is better and lots of things are worse.

    Replies: @HyperDupont, @Mikel, @Dave Pinsen

    So really nothing is better and lots of things are worse.

    Some things are worse, even at a personal level: a neighbor lost his good-paying job in the Dakotas, gasoline went up 18%, cancel culture and wokeism have intensified,… all of this in just one month.

    But a few things are better too: the US-Russian arms treaty was extended and Biden doesn’t need to prove all the time that he is not a Putin stooge so relations with Russia might actually improve a little. Even on the Iran front, a new deal could be possible if the Europeans pushed for it. However, the Europeans being what they are, I wouldn’t count on that.

    • Replies: @Supply and Demand
    @Mikel

    He wouldn't have lost his job if he had transitioned to green energy sooner. I would have lost my job in America when someone discovered my anti-semitism, but I pre-empted it and committed academic espionage for my seat in a Chinese university instead. The American working class needs to be as proactive and self-starting as their white-collar betters.

  49. @Wency
    @Morton's toes

    It seems to me Yudkowsky is entirely without merit. I don't really understand his elevated status. Has he ever said anything interesting, thought-provoking, and true? The fact that his magnum opus is a Harry Potter fanfic seems like it should be all we need to say about the guy. And yet Scott Alexander, whom I actually enjoy reading, seems to take him seriously.

    Scott is sort of two men in one. On one hand is the intellectually curious and incisive writer, capable far more than most men of setting aside biases in honest pursuit of truth, and to communicate it in a way that is intelligent and enjoyable without being smug. I think this is Scott's rational self.

    But his irrational self, his heart of hearts, is an omega who reads Harry Potter fanfic and buys into all the most ridiculous Woke views on the mutability of sexuality and whose disgusting girlfriend still insisted on keeping other lovers, and he was cool with it, and then she dumped him anyway, and he took it hard but also stayed friends with her. He's a leftist deep in his core, and he wants fellow leftists to love and respect him because he wants everything they want except the puritanical drive to burn heretics like himself at the stake. Which, alas for him, is increasingly all that drives them anymore.

    Replies: @Not Only Wrathful, @EldnahYm, @Not Raul, @Alexander Turok

    buys into all the most ridiculous Woke views on the mutability of sexuality

    Woke people think sexuality is, on some level, a choice? I don’t think so.

    Sexuality is spiritual and clearly isn’t genetic or directly biological; but the anxious of both right and left deceive themselves otherwise as it helps them to be simple and ignorant.

    • Replies: @Wency
    @Not Only Wrathful


    Woke people think sexuality is, on some level, a choice? I don’t think so.
     
    I don't disagree with you on this. This was my quick shorthand for all of trans/non-binary/etc. ideology. "Mutable" not in how they see sexuality per se, but how they treat sexuality and reality itself. Indeed, the Orwellian insistence that Bruce Jenner was always a woman ("we've always been at war with Eastasia") is one of the factors that really caused me to dial in to the evils of the Woke agenda. If they had merely said "Bruce Jenner became a woman" I might have slept through it.

    Sexuality is spiritual and clearly isn’t genetic or directly biological; but the anxious of both right and left deceive themselves otherwise as it helps them to be simple and ignorant.
     
    Perhaps I'm simple and ignorant, but it seems in a sane society it ought to be enough to say men are plainly men, women are plainly women, and there is a tiny group of biologically intersex people produced as a result of birth defects about whom we can debate, if it's relevant and we care to.

    Replies: @Not Only Wrathful

  50. @Ron Unz
    Well, I'd have to admit I don't think I've ever read anything he's written and had only been very vaguely aware of him prior to the big flap about his sudden departure from the Internet.

    My impression is that he tended to write half-way "edgy" quasi-HBD analysis, the sort of thing that virtually every intellectual in the world would have considered rather bland and milquetoast back fifty or sixty years ago. Didn't that silly Jordan Peterson fellow become famous because he was "daring" enough to suggest that men might generally be a bit taller than women or something like that?

    Since some of the commenters here seem far more knowledgeable about Alexander, I wonder if they could provide links to three or four of his most interesting pieces so I could judge for myself if there's any there there?

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin, @Not Only Wrathful, @Chrisnonymous, @Morton's toes, @res, @Elsewhere, @gabriel alberton, @EldnahYm

    This tag might be worth perusing to see which (if any) of those controversial topics are up your alley.
    https://slatestarcodex.com/tag/things-i-will-regret-writing/

  51. @Bashibuzuk
    @Coconuts

    I think many among those who lived under Communism are immunized against Wokism. The more it increases and the more we reject it.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Dmitry

    many among those who lived under Communism are immunized

    This immunization is, of course, mostly not an opposition to communism, but conformity to the surface values it taught, as well as (in relation to immigration) nostalgia of the times before immigrants were allowed free internal movement.

    The most awkward points of popular conflict of postcommunist societies to the West, are where late soviet ideology that most currently living citizens were still educated in, seems to directly conflict with current Western bourgeois ideologies – LGBT pride movements, acquiescence to US “imperialism”, and a still uncynical Western belief in what seems like the illusion of multiparty governance.

    In the education, there is a rebranding of “soviet values” to “religious family values”, to be a patriot, respect for work, to never lie , etc – but there is now less state capacity* for disseminating these ideals.

    Still I think the “immunization” will continue against Western ideologies, will continue, to the extent that the recent fashionable virtue-signalling Western ideologies, are not attractive for people with quite a different lifestyle and economic reality than exists outside of the Western countries (that is, outside of elite areas of elite cities in the non-West).

    * In soviet times, “pioneer is the example to follow for all the guys”, whereas today the government has little control on children after school, and teachers only have vague instructions on how to integrate the rebranded “religious moral values” into their lesson plans; the generation which was children and teenagers in the 1990s-2000s, was lazily watching television after school, the current teenagers of the 2010s are partly raised by YouTube, Instagram and Tiktok.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @Dmitry

    When you live under totalitarian propaganda long enough and learn that it's mostly untrue and only a tool to control the population, then you develop a cynical rejection of any propaganda. I know quite a lot of people who have arrived at this point of realization after having been subjected to both Soviet and Western types of propaganda (including Western consumerist attitudes that are in fact a soft propaganda subtype).

    Replies: @Dmitry

  52. @Dmitry
    @Bashibuzuk


    many among those who lived under Communism are immunized

     

    This immunization is, of course, mostly not an opposition to communism, but conformity to the surface values it taught, as well as (in relation to immigration) nostalgia of the times before immigrants were allowed free internal movement.

    The most awkward points of popular conflict of postcommunist societies to the West, are where late soviet ideology that most currently living citizens were still educated in, seems to directly conflict with current Western bourgeois ideologies - LGBT pride movements, acquiescence to US "imperialism", and a still uncynical Western belief in what seems like the illusion of multiparty governance.

    In the education, there is a rebranding of "soviet values" to "religious family values", to be a patriot, respect for work, to never lie , etc - but there is now less state capacity* for disseminating these ideals.

    Still I think the "immunization" will continue against Western ideologies, will continue, to the extent that the recent fashionable virtue-signalling Western ideologies, are not attractive for people with quite a different lifestyle and economic reality than exists outside of the Western countries (that is, outside of elite areas of elite cities in the non-West).


    -

    * In soviet times, "pioneer is the example to follow for all the guys", whereas today the government has little control on children after school, and teachers only have vague instructions on how to integrate the rebranded "religious moral values" into their lesson plans; the generation which was children and teenagers in the 1990s-2000s, was lazily watching television after school, the current teenagers of the 2010s are partly raised by YouTube, Instagram and Tiktok.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    When you live under totalitarian propaganda long enough and learn that it’s mostly untrue and only a tool to control the population, then you develop a cynical rejection of any propaganda. I know quite a lot of people who have arrived at this point of realization after having been subjected to both Soviet and Western types of propaganda (including Western consumerist attitudes that are in fact a soft propaganda subtype).

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Bashibuzuk

    In a number of fortunate individuals, but overall I wouldn't say typical population of the postsoviet space is less susceptible to political propaganda than in the West; especially considering the political manipulations and conflicts we witnessed in the last ten years. On the other hand, I feel there is more apathy and apoliticism in most people compared to the countries like the USA, and I'm not sure that a higher level of apoliticism is a bad thing (politics is junk food for the soul).

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

  53. @Morton's toes
    @Ron Unz

    If you want to learn Scott-Alexanderology in a minimum amount of time I would begin here:

    https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/02/22/repost-the-non-libertarian-faq/

    https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/10/20/the-anti-reactionary-faq/

    https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/03/03/reactionary-philosophy-in-an-enormous-planet-sized-nutshell/

    If you wanted to learn Yudkowsky-Rationalism in a minimum amount of time I would suggest this is impossible. The word count on The Sequences + Harry Potter fanfic novel has got to be over 500 000 words. That is a rabbit hole labyrinth. It has a large overlap with Kurzweil singularity transhuman stuff though so most internet folk have probably been blasted with the bulk of the gist long ago.

    If anybody knows a good estimate word count on (The Sequences + Harry Potter fanfic novel) I would be curious to see that.

    Replies: @Ron Unz

    If you want to learn Scott-Alexanderology in a minimum amount of time I would begin here:

    Well, I glanced over those pieces, as well as a few of the others linked earlier. Perhaps it’s just my blindness, but I wasn’t at all impressed. All the pieces seem like many tens of thousands of words of vague, windy philosophizing, usually divorced from solid material, or at least the solid material was diluted by an endless sea of verbiage.

    It brings to mind what people sometimes used to call “college bull sessions” except that I remember my own college dinner-table discussions being far more focused and serious.

    My impression is that it’s the sort of thing you write if you want to be “edgy” but still stay away from “dangerous” subjects like Race or “conspiracy theories” or the true history of the Twentieth century. I find it difficult to believe that any credible scholar would take it seriously.

    If you wanted to learn Yudkowsky-Rationalism in a minimum amount of time I would suggest this is impossible. The word count on The Sequences + Harry Potter fanfic novel has got to be over 500 000 words. That is a rabbit hole labyrinth. It has a large overlap with Kurzweil singularity transhuman stuff though so most internet folk have probably been blasted with the bulk of the gist long ago.

    Yep, 500,000 words(!) of Harry Potter fanfic. That’s exactly the sort of thing I’m talking about.

    Just out of curiosity, I took the wordcount of a few of the long Alexander “posts”, and each came to over 30,000 words(!).

    Meanwhile, over the last year or so I’ve published long articles on the true history of World War II, the “conspiracy theories” of the JFK Assassination/9-11 Attacks, and the intellectual history of American White Racialism, and each has run well under 30,000 words:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-understanding-world-war-ii/

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-mossad-assassinations/

    https://www.unz.com/runz/white-racialism-in-america-then-and-now/

    My very detailed analysis of American Meritocracy from a few years ago was also of the same length:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/the-myth-of-american-meritocracy/

    Somehow I regard those as more serious and substantive works. Though I’d have to admit that Harry Potter is probably far more popular…

  54. @Not Only Wrathful
    @Wency


    buys into all the most ridiculous Woke views on the mutability of sexuality
     
    Woke people think sexuality is, on some level, a choice? I don't think so.

    Sexuality is spiritual and clearly isn't genetic or directly biological; but the anxious of both right and left deceive themselves otherwise as it helps them to be simple and ignorant.

    Replies: @Wency

    Woke people think sexuality is, on some level, a choice? I don’t think so.

    I don’t disagree with you on this. This was my quick shorthand for all of trans/non-binary/etc. ideology. “Mutable” not in how they see sexuality per se, but how they treat sexuality and reality itself. Indeed, the Orwellian insistence that Bruce Jenner was always a woman (“we’ve always been at war with Eastasia”) is one of the factors that really caused me to dial in to the evils of the Woke agenda. If they had merely said “Bruce Jenner became a woman” I might have slept through it.

    Sexuality is spiritual and clearly isn’t genetic or directly biological; but the anxious of both right and left deceive themselves otherwise as it helps them to be simple and ignorant.

    Perhaps I’m simple and ignorant, but it seems in a sane society it ought to be enough to say men are plainly men, women are plainly women, and there is a tiny group of biologically intersex people produced as a result of birth defects about whom we can debate, if it’s relevant and we care to.

    • Replies: @Not Only Wrathful
    @Wency

    Sorry didn't understand how you were using the term "sexuality".

    The Woke agenda on sex/gender (and actually everything) is about pushing people into more and more constricting boxes, while pretending this is some sort of liberation.

    Theirs' is a very strange ideology where a woman can be only so masculine until she should actually be classified as a man. It takes old stereotypes and reasonable generalisations and reifies them into mock biological categories.

    It is actually encourages a form of narcissism, whereby you must somehow come to completely identify with your persona. It is a nightmare. A transgender teen who " becomes" the other sex is like the institutionalization of a soldier as a soldier, but on steroids (and times a thousand).

    A lot of these poor people will need liberating from their politically correct personas in their middle age, or else they will suffer greatly indeed.

  55. @prime noticer
    this guy never wrote anything of value, so who cares. i'm puzzled why the HBD sphere thinks he was important.

    but yes, it is indeed true that many people all over the political spectrum are privately HBD aware, even if they deny it hard in public.

    Replies: @Morton's toes, @EldnahYm, @Alexander Turok

    He’s promoted for the same reason libertarians/Milton Friedman/Austrian economics/Ayn Rand enthusiasts were promoted a generation ago. Namely, to poison the well. Just read the New York Times article about him. Look at how many of the people named are either Jews or fags.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    @EldnahYm


    Namely, to poison the well. Just read the New York Times article about him.
     
    Thanks for reminding me. I normally read the NYT closely, but I've been so busy the last week or two producing audio versions of most of my more substantial articles that my NYTs have piled up, so I'll try to take a look at it, which will probably increase my information about him by 50x or so.

    I remember there was some gigantic flurry about Jordan Peterson a few years ago, so I finally tried to watch one of his most popular video lectures, but gave up after about 15m because it was so vacuous and worthless. Didn't he supposedly become a drug addict or something in the last year or two?

    What also shocked me about Jordan was that he was apparently promoting the nonsense that the Jewish IQ is a full SD---15 points---above the white American average, which is just totally absurd. He was also apparently totally unaware of my big Meritocracy article from 2012, even though it got very substantial MSM coverage and was actually ranked as probably the best magazine article of the year by both David Brooks of the NYT and also a top editor at The Economist.

    Peterson is a psychology professor and being so totally ignorant of his own subject-area is just appalling.

    Replies: @Shortsword, @Nodwink

  56. @Wency
    @Morton's toes

    It seems to me Yudkowsky is entirely without merit. I don't really understand his elevated status. Has he ever said anything interesting, thought-provoking, and true? The fact that his magnum opus is a Harry Potter fanfic seems like it should be all we need to say about the guy. And yet Scott Alexander, whom I actually enjoy reading, seems to take him seriously.

    Scott is sort of two men in one. On one hand is the intellectually curious and incisive writer, capable far more than most men of setting aside biases in honest pursuit of truth, and to communicate it in a way that is intelligent and enjoyable without being smug. I think this is Scott's rational self.

    But his irrational self, his heart of hearts, is an omega who reads Harry Potter fanfic and buys into all the most ridiculous Woke views on the mutability of sexuality and whose disgusting girlfriend still insisted on keeping other lovers, and he was cool with it, and then she dumped him anyway, and he took it hard but also stayed friends with her. He's a leftist deep in his core, and he wants fellow leftists to love and respect him because he wants everything they want except the puritanical drive to burn heretics like himself at the stake. Which, alas for him, is increasingly all that drives them anymore.

    Replies: @Not Only Wrathful, @EldnahYm, @Not Raul, @Alexander Turok

    It seems to me Yudkowsky is entirely without merit. I don’t really understand his elevated status.

    You can’t understand why a nutty Jew is being promoted by other Jews and nutcases?

  57. I read “Blood Meridian” the other day. Published back in the 80’s and still fresh (it seems to me). So insightful on these and many other topics.

    The world is not a kind place and who knows if it may be you or me next in the cannibal’s pot waiting for the water to boil. Keeping your numbers and alphabet in good order would be increasingly difficult.

    It is not so many years since long pork was regularly on the menu on the island of Hispaniola. Coming to academies on the mainland soon. What better way for the enlightened ones to show their true victory than by feasting on the vanquished. Each institution has large buildings suitable for use as banqueting halls. A roaring fire with an innocent victim screaming on the spit would be more entertaining than a BLM riot. Spiritual bankruptcy would be complete high IQ or no IQ.

  58. @SIMP simp
    I'm not sure you signal boosting this stuff hurts SA but certainly doesn't help him.

    Replies: @Mitleser, @Tusk, @Almost Missouri

    Given that the Techarchs (Google, etc.) have delisted Unz.com, I doubt that anything anyone does here will affect Scott Alexander’s search engine results.

  59. @Barbarossa
    As per Sam Altman's comment on China...I don't know about China as much, but I know Vietnamese who say that back home, as long as you don't trash talk the government, they don't really care what you do or say. I would imagine that the case is perhaps similar with China?

    I can definitely see that many overtly authoritarian systems could be more free than the "Free World". Authoritarians just care about the party line. Totalitarians must control everything public and private.
    The Woke are totalitarian all the way.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @lloyd, @reiner Tor, @Almost Missouri

    That was my experience in the supposedly autocratic, oppressive Middle East. As long as you don’t openly agitate against the regime (or Islam), you can pretty much say or do what you want. In a lot of ways, it was freer than the US. Even in arch-conservative Saudi Arabia.

    That said, I did know a South Asian guy who was hauled off by the police for speaking against the regime. As far as I could tell, he was denounced to the authorities by another South Asian guy who had some personal beef with him. He was cleared and released after about a week, but it can’t have been pleasant.

  60. @Bashibuzuk
    @Dmitry

    When you live under totalitarian propaganda long enough and learn that it's mostly untrue and only a tool to control the population, then you develop a cynical rejection of any propaganda. I know quite a lot of people who have arrived at this point of realization after having been subjected to both Soviet and Western types of propaganda (including Western consumerist attitudes that are in fact a soft propaganda subtype).

    Replies: @Dmitry

    In a number of fortunate individuals, but overall I wouldn’t say typical population of the postsoviet space is less susceptible to political propaganda than in the West; especially considering the political manipulations and conflicts we witnessed in the last ten years. On the other hand, I feel there is more apathy and apoliticism in most people compared to the countries like the USA, and I’m not sure that a higher level of apoliticism is a bad thing (politics is junk food for the soul).

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @Dmitry


    politics is junk food for the soul
     
    You are absolutely correct here Dmitry.

    Regarding post-Soviet space, a few years ago in Moscow I had a conversation with some young Russian scientists in my field, the discussion drifted towards politics. I was surprised how idealistic and extreme some of their judgements were. But that was of course a private discussion after we had a couple of alcoholic beverages. I remember thinking that some Russian intellectuals will probably never change. On the other hand, people in my family are completely apolitical.

    When I was writing about being inmunized against propaganda, I was mainly referring to the Soviet-born people that I personally know in the West. They are of my generation or older and remember Perestroika rather well. Their overall mindset about the developments in the West is that masses, especially the younger generation, are being brainwashed by some faction of the elites. Something we cannot really understand though is what good (if any) will it make to the elites if the Western middle class is bulldozed by the new Queer Red Guard.

    The whole thing is counter-intuitive, although there must be valid reasons to act the way they do. Dmitry Orlov has recently written about it, he has a couple of favorite theories, but as Ron Unz has written above, we don't have real information, hence the whole philosophizing and conspiracy theoreticizing tropes in which we gleefully indulge.

    It's basically a hobby, like any other hobby albeit a bit extravagant one.

    Replies: @Coconuts

  61. @Mikel
    @reiner Tor


    So really nothing is better and lots of things are worse.
     
    Some things are worse, even at a personal level: a neighbor lost his good-paying job in the Dakotas, gasoline went up 18%, cancel culture and wokeism have intensified,... all of this in just one month.

    But a few things are better too: the US-Russian arms treaty was extended and Biden doesn't need to prove all the time that he is not a Putin stooge so relations with Russia might actually improve a little. Even on the Iran front, a new deal could be possible if the Europeans pushed for it. However, the Europeans being what they are, I wouldn't count on that.

    Replies: @Supply and Demand

    He wouldn’t have lost his job if he had transitioned to green energy sooner. I would have lost my job in America when someone discovered my anti-semitism, but I pre-empted it and committed academic espionage for my seat in a Chinese university instead. The American working class needs to be as proactive and self-starting as their white-collar betters.

  62. @Wency
    @Not Only Wrathful


    Woke people think sexuality is, on some level, a choice? I don’t think so.
     
    I don't disagree with you on this. This was my quick shorthand for all of trans/non-binary/etc. ideology. "Mutable" not in how they see sexuality per se, but how they treat sexuality and reality itself. Indeed, the Orwellian insistence that Bruce Jenner was always a woman ("we've always been at war with Eastasia") is one of the factors that really caused me to dial in to the evils of the Woke agenda. If they had merely said "Bruce Jenner became a woman" I might have slept through it.

    Sexuality is spiritual and clearly isn’t genetic or directly biological; but the anxious of both right and left deceive themselves otherwise as it helps them to be simple and ignorant.
     
    Perhaps I'm simple and ignorant, but it seems in a sane society it ought to be enough to say men are plainly men, women are plainly women, and there is a tiny group of biologically intersex people produced as a result of birth defects about whom we can debate, if it's relevant and we care to.

    Replies: @Not Only Wrathful

    Sorry didn’t understand how you were using the term “sexuality”.

    The Woke agenda on sex/gender (and actually everything) is about pushing people into more and more constricting boxes, while pretending this is some sort of liberation.

    Theirs’ is a very strange ideology where a woman can be only so masculine until she should actually be classified as a man. It takes old stereotypes and reasonable generalisations and reifies them into mock biological categories.

    It is actually encourages a form of narcissism, whereby you must somehow come to completely identify with your persona. It is a nightmare. A transgender teen who ” becomes” the other sex is like the institutionalization of a soldier as a soldier, but on steroids (and times a thousand).

    A lot of these poor people will need liberating from their politically correct personas in their middle age, or else they will suffer greatly indeed.

    • Agree: Malla
  63. @Ron Unz
    Well, I'd have to admit I don't think I've ever read anything he's written and had only been very vaguely aware of him prior to the big flap about his sudden departure from the Internet.

    My impression is that he tended to write half-way "edgy" quasi-HBD analysis, the sort of thing that virtually every intellectual in the world would have considered rather bland and milquetoast back fifty or sixty years ago. Didn't that silly Jordan Peterson fellow become famous because he was "daring" enough to suggest that men might generally be a bit taller than women or something like that?

    Since some of the commenters here seem far more knowledgeable about Alexander, I wonder if they could provide links to three or four of his most interesting pieces so I could judge for myself if there's any there there?

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin, @Not Only Wrathful, @Chrisnonymous, @Morton's toes, @res, @Elsewhere, @gabriel alberton, @EldnahYm

    I’ve enjoyed this fictional short story of his: https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/10/30/sort-by-controversial/

  64. @Dmitry
    @Bashibuzuk

    In a number of fortunate individuals, but overall I wouldn't say typical population of the postsoviet space is less susceptible to political propaganda than in the West; especially considering the political manipulations and conflicts we witnessed in the last ten years. On the other hand, I feel there is more apathy and apoliticism in most people compared to the countries like the USA, and I'm not sure that a higher level of apoliticism is a bad thing (politics is junk food for the soul).

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    politics is junk food for the soul

    You are absolutely correct here Dmitry.

    Regarding post-Soviet space, a few years ago in Moscow I had a conversation with some young Russian scientists in my field, the discussion drifted towards politics. I was surprised how idealistic and extreme some of their judgements were. But that was of course a private discussion after we had a couple of alcoholic beverages. I remember thinking that some Russian intellectuals will probably never change. On the other hand, people in my family are completely apolitical.

    When I was writing about being inmunized against propaganda, I was mainly referring to the Soviet-born people that I personally know in the West. They are of my generation or older and remember Perestroika rather well. Their overall mindset about the developments in the West is that masses, especially the younger generation, are being brainwashed by some faction of the elites. Something we cannot really understand though is what good (if any) will it make to the elites if the Western middle class is bulldozed by the new Queer Red Guard.

    The whole thing is counter-intuitive, although there must be valid reasons to act the way they do. Dmitry Orlov has recently written about it, he has a couple of favorite theories, but as Ron Unz has written above, we don’t have real information, hence the whole philosophizing and conspiracy theoreticizing tropes in which we gleefully indulge.

    It’s basically a hobby, like any other hobby albeit a bit extravagant one.

    • Agree: AltanBakshi
    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @Bashibuzuk


    Their overall mindset about the developments in the West is that masses, especially the younger generation, are being brainwashed by some faction of the elites. Something we cannot really understand though is what good (if any) will it make to the elites if the Western middle class is bulldozed by the new Queer Red Guard.
     
    I think this is why people are speculating about things like the rise in power of 'spiteful mutants' among the elites and the ruling classes, cognitive decline and things like that. It is hard to explain why elites would believe that they can continue to retain their elite status without a reasonably stable and cohesive country behind them.

    Another possibility is that some of them have actually come to believe in Neo-Marxist ideas about fostering social change by focusing on social tensions and contradictions, with the general goal of 'advancing the dialectic'. This seems at least possible in the US.

    Finally, I believe with some of the Western European elites it is hard to rule out a Michel Houellebecq Soumission style scenario developing, where they try to integrate themselves with elites from rising countries from the former developing world (in Britain, India and Nigeria as possibilities, in France, North Africa).

    One of the more bizarre or original features of Social Justice politics is that the leaders of the new Red Guard are likely to be drawn from the children of the elite, because the elite have positioned themselves as the revolutionary vanguard of the oppressed, while the lower middle and working classes are now the oppressor class.

    Speculating about this kind of thing is quite addictive.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

  65. @Morton's toes
    @Anatoly Karlin


    Probably my favorite “HBD” post is the review of Albion’s Seed:
     
    The Rationalists love that book. Appalachians do not. Elizier Yudkowsky on twitter back in 2017 wrote it would be a great idea to conduct overt biological warfare upon genetic Borderers. The writer of Albion's Seed seemed to enjoy quoting the French traveller who compared Appalachian food to pig slop. Something like "they eat what we feed to the pigs".

    Replies: @Wency, @EldnahYm

    The writer of Albion’s Seed seemed to enjoy quoting the French traveller who compared Appalachian food to pig slop. Something like “they eat what we feed to the pigs”.

    I believe that’s from the diary of Louis Philippe, former king of France.

  66. @prime noticer
    this guy never wrote anything of value, so who cares. i'm puzzled why the HBD sphere thinks he was important.

    but yes, it is indeed true that many people all over the political spectrum are privately HBD aware, even if they deny it hard in public.

    Replies: @Morton's toes, @EldnahYm, @Alexander Turok

    It should be noted that he never to my knowledge denied any “HBD awareness,” unlike Tyler Cowen. He simply ignored the question. The “soft ban” was always quite soft, nothing could be said in the open threads, but in the hidden open threads you could usually discuss the subject so long as it wasn’t too blatant.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @Alexander Turok

    http://comicartcommunity.com/gallery/data/media/885/TUROK_SON_OF_STONE_1.jpg

  67. @EldnahYm
    @prime noticer

    He's promoted for the same reason libertarians/Milton Friedman/Austrian economics/Ayn Rand enthusiasts were promoted a generation ago. Namely, to poison the well. Just read the New York Times article about him. Look at how many of the people named are either Jews or fags.

    Replies: @Ron Unz

    Namely, to poison the well. Just read the New York Times article about him.

    Thanks for reminding me. I normally read the NYT closely, but I’ve been so busy the last week or two producing audio versions of most of my more substantial articles that my NYTs have piled up, so I’ll try to take a look at it, which will probably increase my information about him by 50x or so.

    I remember there was some gigantic flurry about Jordan Peterson a few years ago, so I finally tried to watch one of his most popular video lectures, but gave up after about 15m because it was so vacuous and worthless. Didn’t he supposedly become a drug addict or something in the last year or two?

    What also shocked me about Jordan was that he was apparently promoting the nonsense that the Jewish IQ is a full SD—15 points—above the white American average, which is just totally absurd. He was also apparently totally unaware of my big Meritocracy article from 2012, even though it got very substantial MSM coverage and was actually ranked as probably the best magazine article of the year by both David Brooks of the NYT and also a top editor at The Economist.

    Peterson is a psychology professor and being so totally ignorant of his own subject-area is just appalling.

    • Agree: Not Raul
    • Replies: @Shortsword
    @Ron Unz

    Jordan Peterson initially became famous because of his anti-SJW rants and after that he became a self-help guru.

    , @Nodwink
    @Ron Unz

    Jordan Peterson wrote a book twenty-odd years ago called Maps of Meaning. I read a little of this book online, and it seemed clear to me that Peterson had considerable mental health problems, based on his own account of his college years and early adulthood.

    Peterson seems competent or perhaps excellent in his area of expertise, but (like Steven Pinker) is out of his depth when discussing other subjects. I believe that Peterson's current notoriety stems from his refusal to use gender pronouns when interacting with a student, which created a minor ruckus on campus, which then became a wider controversy.

  68. @Alexander Turok
    @prime noticer

    It should be noted that he never to my knowledge denied any "HBD awareness," unlike Tyler Cowen. He simply ignored the question. The "soft ban" was always quite soft, nothing could be said in the open threads, but in the hidden open threads you could usually discuss the subject so long as it wasn't too blatant.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

  69. @Wency
    @Morton's toes

    It seems to me Yudkowsky is entirely without merit. I don't really understand his elevated status. Has he ever said anything interesting, thought-provoking, and true? The fact that his magnum opus is a Harry Potter fanfic seems like it should be all we need to say about the guy. And yet Scott Alexander, whom I actually enjoy reading, seems to take him seriously.

    Scott is sort of two men in one. On one hand is the intellectually curious and incisive writer, capable far more than most men of setting aside biases in honest pursuit of truth, and to communicate it in a way that is intelligent and enjoyable without being smug. I think this is Scott's rational self.

    But his irrational self, his heart of hearts, is an omega who reads Harry Potter fanfic and buys into all the most ridiculous Woke views on the mutability of sexuality and whose disgusting girlfriend still insisted on keeping other lovers, and he was cool with it, and then she dumped him anyway, and he took it hard but also stayed friends with her. He's a leftist deep in his core, and he wants fellow leftists to love and respect him because he wants everything they want except the puritanical drive to burn heretics like himself at the stake. Which, alas for him, is increasingly all that drives them anymore.

    Replies: @Not Only Wrathful, @EldnahYm, @Not Raul, @Alexander Turok

    It seems to me Yudkowsky is entirely without merit. I don’t really understand his elevated status. Has he ever said anything interesting, thought-provoking, and true? The fact that his magnum opus is a Harry Potter fanfic seems like it should be all we need to say about the guy. And yet Scott Alexander, whom I actually enjoy reading, seems to take him seriously.

    Lots of people take that idiot seriously, and it drives me crazy.

  70. @Bashibuzuk
    @Dmitry


    politics is junk food for the soul
     
    You are absolutely correct here Dmitry.

    Regarding post-Soviet space, a few years ago in Moscow I had a conversation with some young Russian scientists in my field, the discussion drifted towards politics. I was surprised how idealistic and extreme some of their judgements were. But that was of course a private discussion after we had a couple of alcoholic beverages. I remember thinking that some Russian intellectuals will probably never change. On the other hand, people in my family are completely apolitical.

    When I was writing about being inmunized against propaganda, I was mainly referring to the Soviet-born people that I personally know in the West. They are of my generation or older and remember Perestroika rather well. Their overall mindset about the developments in the West is that masses, especially the younger generation, are being brainwashed by some faction of the elites. Something we cannot really understand though is what good (if any) will it make to the elites if the Western middle class is bulldozed by the new Queer Red Guard.

    The whole thing is counter-intuitive, although there must be valid reasons to act the way they do. Dmitry Orlov has recently written about it, he has a couple of favorite theories, but as Ron Unz has written above, we don't have real information, hence the whole philosophizing and conspiracy theoreticizing tropes in which we gleefully indulge.

    It's basically a hobby, like any other hobby albeit a bit extravagant one.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    Their overall mindset about the developments in the West is that masses, especially the younger generation, are being brainwashed by some faction of the elites. Something we cannot really understand though is what good (if any) will it make to the elites if the Western middle class is bulldozed by the new Queer Red Guard.

    I think this is why people are speculating about things like the rise in power of ‘spiteful mutants’ among the elites and the ruling classes, cognitive decline and things like that. It is hard to explain why elites would believe that they can continue to retain their elite status without a reasonably stable and cohesive country behind them.

    Another possibility is that some of them have actually come to believe in Neo-Marxist ideas about fostering social change by focusing on social tensions and contradictions, with the general goal of ‘advancing the dialectic’. This seems at least possible in the US.

    Finally, I believe with some of the Western European elites it is hard to rule out a Michel Houellebecq Soumission style scenario developing, where they try to integrate themselves with elites from rising countries from the former developing world (in Britain, India and Nigeria as possibilities, in France, North Africa).

    One of the more bizarre or original features of Social Justice politics is that the leaders of the new Red Guard are likely to be drawn from the children of the elite, because the elite have positioned themselves as the revolutionary vanguard of the oppressed, while the lower middle and working classes are now the oppressor class.

    Speculating about this kind of thing is quite addictive.

    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @Coconuts


    Speculating about this kind of thing is quite addictive.
     
    Agree with that.



    Here are some interesting bits of information to fuel your addictive speculating.

    https://www.facebook.com/worldeconomicforum/photos/klaus-schwab-world-economic-forum-annual-meeting-1971-european-management-sympos/10150229212286479/

    http://users.jyu.fi/~aphamala/pe/2002/ovh-en.htm

    https://www.coe.int/en/web/documents-records-archives-information/count-richard-n.-coudenhove-kalergi-and-the-council-of-europe

    The entire “office” was then unexpectedly “handed over” on his Facebook by Oleg Khavich – the former head of the information bloc of the Ministry of Culture of Ukraine. In 2016, he posted a photo of himself standing next to Karl Habsburg and Christo Grozev. Khavich called the latter a “financial adviser” to Habsburg. Supporters of Austria-Hungary in the comments could not restrain themselves and exulted: “Galicia is waiting for the return of its emperor!”

     

    https://www.stalkerzone.org/navalny-bellingcat-the-fifth-column-in-the-fsb/

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/dec/15/the-habsburgs-by-martyn-rady-review-negative-genetic-feedback-loop

    When we look into this kind of information, we end up in all kinds of rabbit holes...

    🙂
  71. @Ron Unz
    @EldnahYm


    Namely, to poison the well. Just read the New York Times article about him.
     
    Thanks for reminding me. I normally read the NYT closely, but I've been so busy the last week or two producing audio versions of most of my more substantial articles that my NYTs have piled up, so I'll try to take a look at it, which will probably increase my information about him by 50x or so.

    I remember there was some gigantic flurry about Jordan Peterson a few years ago, so I finally tried to watch one of his most popular video lectures, but gave up after about 15m because it was so vacuous and worthless. Didn't he supposedly become a drug addict or something in the last year or two?

    What also shocked me about Jordan was that he was apparently promoting the nonsense that the Jewish IQ is a full SD---15 points---above the white American average, which is just totally absurd. He was also apparently totally unaware of my big Meritocracy article from 2012, even though it got very substantial MSM coverage and was actually ranked as probably the best magazine article of the year by both David Brooks of the NYT and also a top editor at The Economist.

    Peterson is a psychology professor and being so totally ignorant of his own subject-area is just appalling.

    Replies: @Shortsword, @Nodwink

    Jordan Peterson initially became famous because of his anti-SJW rants and after that he became a self-help guru.

  72. @Ron Unz
    @Chrisnonymous


    Do you read anyone associated with the rationalist movement, like Hanson or Yudkowsky or the Less Wrong blog? I would think your natural proclivities and association with Karlin and, previously, Khan would indicate yes.
     
    Not really. In fact, I'm not sure I've ever heard of any of them.

    I thought his short story about the last unenlightened man on earth was brilliant and hilarious. I shared it with some vaguely “spiritual” friends, as I thought they would enjoy it and find its ending “deep”. I was hoping it would be a gateway drug to more SSC, which would be a gateway drug to actually being able to talk about political issues.
     
    That's the thing. I'm just not into "gateway drugs" providing vague and tangential allusions to "controversial" political issues. I'd rather just discuss the political issues directly. That's why I often much prefer books from many decades ago, when such topics were sometimes discussed in very straightforward terms.

    Most of my articles deal with very factual issues of science, sociology, or history, and I enjoy attempting to solve factual puzzles in those fields rather than just windy philosophizing.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief, @Chrisnonymous, @Hmmmr

    > Not really. In fact, I’m not sure I’ve ever heard of any of them.

    This comment and the other one about never having read a single article of Scott Alexander is the most surprising thing I’ve read all week.

    For a guy that runs a weird corner of the internet that is unz.com you would think that other places of the “intellectual dark web” would be known to you.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    @Hmmmr


    This comment and the other one about never having read a single article of Scott Alexander is the most surprising thing I’ve read all week.

    For a guy that runs a weird corner of the internet that is unz.com you would think that other places of the “intellectual dark web” would be known to you.
     
    Well, I dug up the big NYT article from last week and wasn't very impressed. Apparently, lots of Tech people are quite impressed with Alexander's blathering, but this relates to a point I made a year or two ago:

    My strong impression is that most of the leading Silicon Valley people are generally pretty nice and reasonable, but are very politically unsophisticated. They’re totally focused on technology and business issues, and with a few exceptions here and there, don’t really pay any deep attention to politics or ideological matters, sub-contracting out those things to the same “mainstream” opinion-forming elites who provide that role for almost everyone else in our society. Just think of the leading Silicon Valley people as your pleasant, college-educated next door neighbors, who sporadically catch the regular news on TV, glance at the newspaper headlines, and regard that as the reality of the world.
     
    https://www.unz.com/runz/an-open-letter-to-the-alt-right-and-others/

    For example, during the BLM controversy a few months ago Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey, who's worth $5 billion, donated $10 million to a dim-witted pseudo-intellectual black guy named Ibram X. Kendi best known for publishing some book denouncing racism. The Tech people in Alexander's circle are obviously much more rightwingers/libertarians, but perhaps not hugely more sophisticated in their politics.

    Just to be fair to Alexander, I decided to take another look at his Top Posts list, and clicked on the #1 item, which turned out to be a windy analysis of Minimum Wage issues published in 2014.

    Now as it happens, earlier that same year I'd launched America's current national MW movement, including op-eds in the NYT, the LA Times, Forbes, and numerous other publications, and with a big NYT article covering my project. There had also been various front-page stories in Bay Area newspapers, presumably the reason he decided to write about it. But his 2,500 word piece---which he ranked #1 on all-time Top list---seemed so vacuous and "philosophical" I just skimmed it. Basically, a piece on MW issues written by some random psychiatrist-blogger who doesn't know anything about MW issues and isn't trying to investigate them.

    I think the first time I'd ever heard of the "intellectual dark web" was a few years ago when they were given a big cover story in the NYT Magazine, but it didn't provide any details on anything interesting they'd ever said or done. I got the sense they focused on "edgy" things like gingering suggesting that men might be slightly taller than women. Around the same time, David Brooks described Jordan Peterson as America's most important public intellectual, though I'd never heard of him, he didn't seem to say or know anything, and a year or two later he became a drug-addict. Not exactly a true successor to a James Q. Wilson or a Nathan Glazer.

    Someone upthread claimed their longest written work was 500,000 words of Harry Potter fanfic.

    Perhaps one reason I've barely even heard of the "intellectual dark web" people is that they've never said anything I'd find interesting or important.

    Replies: @Morton's toes, @Bumpkin, @Hmmmr

  73. This comment and the other one about never having read a single article of Scott Alexander is the most surprising thing I’ve read all week.

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcStoi8W2qYyyHsbYYVrmdvEtRMM_1E_c8MhZg&usqp=CAU

    This is all of us. The internet is huge. To look at .1% of it is to drink from a firehose.

    • Agree: Bashibuzuk
  74. @Ron Unz
    Well, I'd have to admit I don't think I've ever read anything he's written and had only been very vaguely aware of him prior to the big flap about his sudden departure from the Internet.

    My impression is that he tended to write half-way "edgy" quasi-HBD analysis, the sort of thing that virtually every intellectual in the world would have considered rather bland and milquetoast back fifty or sixty years ago. Didn't that silly Jordan Peterson fellow become famous because he was "daring" enough to suggest that men might generally be a bit taller than women or something like that?

    Since some of the commenters here seem far more knowledgeable about Alexander, I wonder if they could provide links to three or four of his most interesting pieces so I could judge for myself if there's any there there?

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin, @Not Only Wrathful, @Chrisnonymous, @Morton's toes, @res, @Elsewhere, @gabriel alberton, @EldnahYm

    Scott Aaronson, the computer scientist, once said unironically that to many of his readers, and to himself, Scott Alexander deleting his blog would be like Mark Twain burning all his works.

    So Alexander’s readers (including Aaronson) are silly. Perhaps appropriate for a psychiatrist. At least to my knowledge no one has implied that you deleting your website here would be anywhere near such a tragic loss, making Unz Review readers possibly significantly saner than Slate Star Codex readers.

  75. @Supply and Demand
    @Dave Pinsen

    I live in China, Mr. Pinsen. Trump going after China before taming domestic Wall Street Jews was pure idiocy and a form of reactionary politics I hope America grows out of.

    That said it appears the pied piper of Israel is still leading his little minions. Hopefully the Dems grow some balls and start locking them up in re-education camps like China's Uighurs.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    Trump imposing tariffs on China was a long overdue correction to a decades-long folly by American elites. But he was a protectionist, not a warmonger. Team Biden is more likely to gin up a Cold War with China, which, given their incompetence, may lead to a hot war.

    Not sure who the pied piper you’re referring to is.

    • Replies: @Kent Nationalist
    @Dave Pinsen

    The strategy was for American capitalists to make money from trade with China and perhaps control over the Chinese economy

    Replies: @Mitleser

  76. @reiner Tor
    @Dave Pinsen

    Even where Trump seemed markedly worse than his enemies (the Iran Deal), it turns out that his policies represent the new consensus. So really nothing is better and lots of things are worse.

    Replies: @HyperDupont, @Mikel, @Dave Pinsen

    Trump’s policies don’t represent the new consensus.

    Biden already reversed Trump’s cancelation of Critical Race Theory struggle sessions in the federal government and is reversing Trump’s immigration polices.

  77. @Dave Pinsen
    @Supply and Demand

    Trump imposing tariffs on China was a long overdue correction to a decades-long folly by American elites. But he was a protectionist, not a warmonger. Team Biden is more likely to gin up a Cold War with China, which, given their incompetence, may lead to a hot war.

    https://twitter.com/acczibit/status/1344747663703617537?s=20

    Not sure who the pied piper you're referring to is.

    Replies: @Kent Nationalist

    The strategy was for American capitalists to make money from trade with China and perhaps control over the Chinese economy

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    @Kent Nationalist

    Not as much controlling the PRC economy as weaken the hold of the CPC on China.


    The change this agreement can bring from outside is quite extraordinary, but I think you could make an argument that it will be nothing compared to the changes that this agreement will spark from the inside out in China. By joining the W.T.O., China is not simply agreeing to import more of our products; it is agreeing to import one of democracy's most cherished values: economic freedom. The more China liberalizes its economy, the more fully it will liberate the potential of its people — their initiative, their imagination, their remarkable spirit of enterprise. And when individuals have the power, not just to dream but to realize their dreams, they will demand a greater say.

    Already, more and more of China's best and brightest are starting their own companies or seeking jobs with foreign-owned countries, where generally they get higher pay, more respect and a better working environment. In fits and starts, for the first time, China may become a society where people get ahead based on what they know rather than who they know. Chinese firms more and more are realizing that unless they treat employees with respect, they will lose out in the competition for top talent. The process will only accelerate as China joins the W.T.O., and we should encourage it because it will lift standards for Chinese workers, and their expectations.

    There's something even more revolutionary at work here. By lowering the barriers that protect state-owned industries, China is speeding a process that is removing government from vast areas of people's lives. In the past, virtually every Chinese citizen woke up in an apartment or a house owned by the government, went to work in a factory or a farm run by the government, and read newspapers published by the government. State-run workplaces also operated the schools where they sent their children, the clinics where they received health care, the stores where they bought food. That system was a big source of the Communist Party's power.

    Now people are leaving those firms, and when China joins the W.T.O., they will leave them faster. The Chinese government no longer will be everyone's employer, landlord, shopkeeper and nanny all rolled into one. It will have fewer instruments, therefore, with which to control people's lives. And that may lead to very profound change.
     
    https://www.iatp.org/sites/default/files/Full_Text_of_Clintons_Speech_on_China_Trade_Bi.htm
  78. @Coconuts
    @Bashibuzuk


    Their overall mindset about the developments in the West is that masses, especially the younger generation, are being brainwashed by some faction of the elites. Something we cannot really understand though is what good (if any) will it make to the elites if the Western middle class is bulldozed by the new Queer Red Guard.
     
    I think this is why people are speculating about things like the rise in power of 'spiteful mutants' among the elites and the ruling classes, cognitive decline and things like that. It is hard to explain why elites would believe that they can continue to retain their elite status without a reasonably stable and cohesive country behind them.

    Another possibility is that some of them have actually come to believe in Neo-Marxist ideas about fostering social change by focusing on social tensions and contradictions, with the general goal of 'advancing the dialectic'. This seems at least possible in the US.

    Finally, I believe with some of the Western European elites it is hard to rule out a Michel Houellebecq Soumission style scenario developing, where they try to integrate themselves with elites from rising countries from the former developing world (in Britain, India and Nigeria as possibilities, in France, North Africa).

    One of the more bizarre or original features of Social Justice politics is that the leaders of the new Red Guard are likely to be drawn from the children of the elite, because the elite have positioned themselves as the revolutionary vanguard of the oppressed, while the lower middle and working classes are now the oppressor class.

    Speculating about this kind of thing is quite addictive.

    Replies: @Bashibuzuk

    Speculating about this kind of thing is quite addictive.

    Agree with that.

    [MORE]

    Here are some interesting bits of information to fuel your addictive speculating.

    https://www.facebook.com/worldeconomicforum/photos/klaus-schwab-world-economic-forum-annual-meeting-1971-european-management-sympos/10150229212286479/

    http://users.jyu.fi/~aphamala/pe/2002/ovh-en.htm

    https://www.coe.int/en/web/documents-records-archives-information/count-richard-n.-coudenhove-kalergi-and-the-council-of-europe

    The entire “office” was then unexpectedly “handed over” on his Facebook by Oleg Khavich – the former head of the information bloc of the Ministry of Culture of Ukraine. In 2016, he posted a photo of himself standing next to Karl Habsburg and Christo Grozev. Khavich called the latter a “financial adviser” to Habsburg. Supporters of Austria-Hungary in the comments could not restrain themselves and exulted: “Galicia is waiting for the return of its emperor!”

    https://www.stalkerzone.org/navalny-bellingcat-the-fifth-column-in-the-fsb/

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/dec/15/the-habsburgs-by-martyn-rady-review-negative-genetic-feedback-loop

    When we look into this kind of information, we end up in all kinds of rabbit holes…

    🙂

    • Thanks: Coconuts
  79. @Kent Nationalist
    @Dave Pinsen

    The strategy was for American capitalists to make money from trade with China and perhaps control over the Chinese economy

    Replies: @Mitleser

    Not as much controlling the PRC economy as weaken the hold of the CPC on China.

    The change this agreement can bring from outside is quite extraordinary, but I think you could make an argument that it will be nothing compared to the changes that this agreement will spark from the inside out in China. By joining the W.T.O., China is not simply agreeing to import more of our products; it is agreeing to import one of democracy’s most cherished values: economic freedom. The more China liberalizes its economy, the more fully it will liberate the potential of its people — their initiative, their imagination, their remarkable spirit of enterprise. And when individuals have the power, not just to dream but to realize their dreams, they will demand a greater say.

    Already, more and more of China’s best and brightest are starting their own companies or seeking jobs with foreign-owned countries, where generally they get higher pay, more respect and a better working environment. In fits and starts, for the first time, China may become a society where people get ahead based on what they know rather than who they know. Chinese firms more and more are realizing that unless they treat employees with respect, they will lose out in the competition for top talent. The process will only accelerate as China joins the W.T.O., and we should encourage it because it will lift standards for Chinese workers, and their expectations.

    There’s something even more revolutionary at work here. By lowering the barriers that protect state-owned industries, China is speeding a process that is removing government from vast areas of people’s lives. In the past, virtually every Chinese citizen woke up in an apartment or a house owned by the government, went to work in a factory or a farm run by the government, and read newspapers published by the government. State-run workplaces also operated the schools where they sent their children, the clinics where they received health care, the stores where they bought food. That system was a big source of the Communist Party’s power.

    Now people are leaving those firms, and when China joins the W.T.O., they will leave them faster. The Chinese government no longer will be everyone’s employer, landlord, shopkeeper and nanny all rolled into one. It will have fewer instruments, therefore, with which to control people’s lives. And that may lead to very profound change.

    https://www.iatp.org/sites/default/files/Full_Text_of_Clintons_Speech_on_China_Trade_Bi.htm

  80. @Hmmmr
    @Ron Unz

    > Not really. In fact, I’m not sure I’ve ever heard of any of them.

    This comment and the other one about never having read a single article of Scott Alexander is the most surprising thing I’ve read all week.

    For a guy that runs a weird corner of the internet that is unz.com you would think that other places of the “intellectual dark web” would be known to you.

    Replies: @Ron Unz

    This comment and the other one about never having read a single article of Scott Alexander is the most surprising thing I’ve read all week.

    For a guy that runs a weird corner of the internet that is unz.com you would think that other places of the “intellectual dark web” would be known to you.

    Well, I dug up the big NYT article from last week and wasn’t very impressed. Apparently, lots of Tech people are quite impressed with Alexander’s blathering, but this relates to a point I made a year or two ago:

    My strong impression is that most of the leading Silicon Valley people are generally pretty nice and reasonable, but are very politically unsophisticated. They’re totally focused on technology and business issues, and with a few exceptions here and there, don’t really pay any deep attention to politics or ideological matters, sub-contracting out those things to the same “mainstream” opinion-forming elites who provide that role for almost everyone else in our society. Just think of the leading Silicon Valley people as your pleasant, college-educated next door neighbors, who sporadically catch the regular news on TV, glance at the newspaper headlines, and regard that as the reality of the world.

    https://www.unz.com/runz/an-open-letter-to-the-alt-right-and-others/

    For example, during the BLM controversy a few months ago Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey, who’s worth $5 billion, donated $10 million to a dim-witted pseudo-intellectual black guy named Ibram X. Kendi best known for publishing some book denouncing racism. The Tech people in Alexander’s circle are obviously much more rightwingers/libertarians, but perhaps not hugely more sophisticated in their politics.

    Just to be fair to Alexander, I decided to take another look at his Top Posts list, and clicked on the #1 item, which turned out to be a windy analysis of Minimum Wage issues published in 2014.

    Now as it happens, earlier that same year I’d launched America’s current national MW movement, including op-eds in the NYT, the LA Times, Forbes, and numerous other publications, and with a big NYT article covering my project. There had also been various front-page stories in Bay Area newspapers, presumably the reason he decided to write about it. But his 2,500 word piece—which he ranked #1 on all-time Top list—seemed so vacuous and “philosophical” I just skimmed it. Basically, a piece on MW issues written by some random psychiatrist-blogger who doesn’t know anything about MW issues and isn’t trying to investigate them.

    I think the first time I’d ever heard of the “intellectual dark web” was a few years ago when they were given a big cover story in the NYT Magazine, but it didn’t provide any details on anything interesting they’d ever said or done. I got the sense they focused on “edgy” things like gingering suggesting that men might be slightly taller than women. Around the same time, David Brooks described Jordan Peterson as America’s most important public intellectual, though I’d never heard of him, he didn’t seem to say or know anything, and a year or two later he became a drug-addict. Not exactly a true successor to a James Q. Wilson or a Nathan Glazer.

    Someone upthread claimed their longest written work was 500,000 words of Harry Potter fanfic.

    Perhaps one reason I’ve barely even heard of the “intellectual dark web” people is that they’ve never said anything I’d find interesting or important.

    • Replies: @Morton's toes
    @Ron Unz

    An analysis of prevalence of autism amongst fans of Scott Alexander and Elizier Yudkowsky and Jordan Peterson might be revealing. On a podcast early last year Tyler Cowen and Eric Weinstein proclaimed Scott as the most important public intellectual in the country. Exactly as Brooks and Peterson.

    They have a rabid fan base. Probably not the kind of fan base anybody would want. Remember the Saturday Night Live skit with William Shatner and the Star Trek fans and him yelling at them to "Get a life"?

    A fan base like that.

    Yet Scott gave me the inside dope on amphetamines in Silicon Valley and the Big Yud entertained me with Roko's Baselisk, the shangri-la diet, and math pets. And they never did anything to harm me. Also and I have this handy diagnostic on people to be avoided absolutely with extreme prejudice. I consider these free gifts. As Yogi Berra said "you can observe a lot just by watching."

    Replies: @Ron Unz

    , @Bumpkin
    @Ron Unz

    I agree that the SV people are not very knowledgeable, but to be fair to them, they have their heads buried in their computers trying to make as much money as they can, as you yourself once did. I like Jordan Peterson more than you, having actually watched many hours of his videos like this BBC interview that went viral for the rank duplicity of his interviewer, and I think the attraction is that in a developed West that has all the material wealth needed for a comfortable life but stripped of moral or spiritual guidance of any kind with the debasement and death of religion, he has taken on a role of a mass father figure with his online video lectures and books.

    While much of what he says is blandly obvious ("Clean your room" is a famous saying), there are many who need it said and he represents the male patriarchy to the Woke left so they have marked him for destruction, as one of the few self-described liberals rebeling against their Woke edicts (he first got famous for calling the Canadian law that forced him to refer to trans people by their preferred pronoun a bad law that he wouldn't follow, which got him labeled anti-trans even though he said it wasn't about them and he was only against such laws abridging free speech). He is important in that he wades forcefully and thoughtfully into the culture wars, not in that he has anything ground-breaking to say.

    As for the IDW, there is a heavy jewish flavor to it, so one wonders what their connection is to the neocons. It could be a false front by them as they largely attack the Woke left, who also have significant overlap with the BDS crowd. One senses that the media uses them to enforce the edge of their Overton window, highlighting them as the edge of "respectable" discussion and occasionally sacrificing one, perhaps Scott here, to show the punushment coming if you go over the edge they've defined, even when you do so anonymously.

    , @Hmmmr
    @Ron Unz

    Fair enough.

    Also, you’ve got it completely wrong on Peterson. His message isn’t interesting or important to you, because his message isn’t for you or any other high status Ivy Leaguer-millionaire-businessman.

    Presumably you publish your opinions on the Minimum Wage, not because you are pining to land a job, but rather you care about society in general and would benefit indirectly from a well functioning one.

    Peterson’s message is for lost, disaffected, depressed, young men in a world increasing hostile to merit. In an age where prestige media is telling young black men that they have no agency over their actions, Peterson is teaching young men to be truthful and to take responsibility for oneself, instead of being angry and looking to blame others.

    The affluent class has a really hard time of figuring out what’s actually good for the working class. So when they see advice like, clean your room and stand up straight, they just don’t see what the fuss is about, oblivious to the fact the working class don’t have Fathers in the household.

    Instead of dismissing Peterson we should be thanking him. It’s hard to fault you for not seeing Peterson’s value, as you are simply too far removed from the target audience of non high status young men.

    Replies: @Ron Unz, @Morton's toes

  81. @Chrisnonymous
    @Ron Unz

    Do you read anyone associated with the rationalist movement, like Hanson or Yudkowsky or the Less Wrong blog? I would think your natural proclivities and association with Karlin and, previously, Khan would indicate yes.

    Replies: @Ron Unz, @utu

    Never heard of Yudkowsky and ‘the rationalist movement’. Did some search and the picture that emerged is that Yudkowsky is clearly a charlatan in the process of forming a profitable cult like movement and organization targeting Silicon Valley not dissimilar from the L. Ron Hubbard strategy of targeting Hollywood or Ayn Rand targeting NYC intelligentsia orphaned by Trotsky and Stalin deaths. That’s were the money is. Yudkowsky gets funding from techno-libertarianism like Peter Thiel. While Hanson is with Mason University that is generously funded by Koch brothers.

    Yudkowsky in his youth during the dot-com bubble allegedly did some coding hoping to get rich. But it came to nothing.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20010205221413/http://sysopmind.com/eliezer.html#timeline_the
    “For two years, from late sixteen through late eighteen, I tried writing a commodities-trading program, by request, for a friend. Eventually I realized that trying to outprogram the stuff already on the market was three years of work for a full team of programmers”

    “Why’d I take on a quixotic project, a tenuous gamble like that? Well, partially because it was there. It was something to do, something I could show my parents that I was doing. And it proved to me that, setting my own hours, and armed with knowledge of how my mind worked, I could work on something for two years without breaking. Part of it was also the immense payoff that a successful trading program would have meant; since childhood, I’d always imagined myself becoming rich first, then funding my own dreams.”

    He has never completed any tangible project. He discovered that he was a better talker than doer. He realized he could persuade other people to fund him.

    After a while, I admitted to myself that “getting rich and funding everything personally” might be the most emotionally satisfying way to imagine it – the way I’d happened to picture it back in my childhood, when my core dreams were being formed – but it wasn’t the fastest and most solid way from point A to point B.

    His Machine Intelligence Research Institute (MIRI) is funded by Open Philanthropy ($3-$4 mil per year). His Center for Applied Rationality (CFAR) is funded by Open Philanthropy ($500k), Berkeley Existential Risk Initiative ($300k) and others.

    Then there are LessWrong, Summer Program on Applied Rationality and Cognition (SPARC) and European Summer Program on Rationality (ESPR) that are funded separately.

    He does what libertarians always do for plutocracy and oligarchy:

    Robot Cultist Eliezer Yudkowsky’s Ugly Celebration of Plutocracy
    https://amormundi.blogspot.com/2016/01/robot-cultist-eliezer-yudkowskys-ugly.html

    The incident of Roko’s Basilisk exemplify the best the absurdity of Yudovsky’s intellectual universe:
    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/LessWrong#cite_note-61

    Apparently the Roko’s Basilisk incident alienated “the head choppers” fellow cryonicists which are somewhere there in the bizarre constellation of libertarian transhumanists.

    Everybody Freeze!
    https://thebaffler.com/salvos/everybody-freeze-pein

    What did change, thanks to the tech bubble, was the combined net worth of the Silicon Valley software engineers who are in the demographic sweet spot of the Alcor business model. Here were young people possessed of the lust for eternal life, who required no PR blitzes to persuade them of technology’s ability to overcome the brute empirical facts of the human condition—many with the outsize ego to cast themselves as Christlike figures awaiting resurrection and the ample self-confidence to ignore all naysayers.

    A self-styled Nietzschean “overman,” More, now fifty-two, achieved geek-world fame as the bodybuilding “strategic philosopher” of the 1990s “extropian” movement. More’s journal, Extropy, promoted seafaring secessionism long before Peter Thiel’s Seasteading Institute hit the scene. It extolled the subversive potential of digital currencies before Bitcoin was a twinkle in Satoshi Nakamoto’s eye. It denounced, with eerie glee, environmentalists, “statists,” and “deathist” cryonics critics who threatened the transhuman future.

    “The abolition of aging and, finally, all causes of death, is essential,” More wrote. Inspired by Nietzsche and Ayn Rand, he held that “transhumanism” was the next great leap in rationalized selfishness, and a necessary corrective to the “outdated values and ideas” of humanism. A fellow extropian, the cryptography pioneer Perry Metzger, formed an email list that was separate yet closely connected to the magazine.

    One good thing is that now I understand better where AK was coming from when I have encountered him here at the UR and I am hoping that he grew out of that nonsense.

    • Thanks: Kent Nationalist, EldnahYm
    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    @utu


    Never heard of Yudkowsky and ‘the rationalist movement’. Did some search and the picture that emerged is that Yudkowsky is clearly a charlatan in the process of forming a profitable cult like movement and organization targeting Silicon Valley not dissimilar from the L. Ron Hubbard strategy of targeting Hollywood or Ayn Rand targeting NYC intelligentsia orphaned by Trotsky and Stalin deaths.
     
    Hmmm... It does really sound a little like one of those fraudulent, cult-like "Jewish intellectual movements" that Kevin MacDonald's writings have heavily documented.

    Replies: @utu

    , @Chrisnonymous
    @utu

    You have a superficial impression of Yudkowsky. You should spend more time interacting with Rationalists and the AI alignment theories Yudkowsky has helped develop.

  82. @Wency
    @Morton's toes

    It seems to me Yudkowsky is entirely without merit. I don't really understand his elevated status. Has he ever said anything interesting, thought-provoking, and true? The fact that his magnum opus is a Harry Potter fanfic seems like it should be all we need to say about the guy. And yet Scott Alexander, whom I actually enjoy reading, seems to take him seriously.

    Scott is sort of two men in one. On one hand is the intellectually curious and incisive writer, capable far more than most men of setting aside biases in honest pursuit of truth, and to communicate it in a way that is intelligent and enjoyable without being smug. I think this is Scott's rational self.

    But his irrational self, his heart of hearts, is an omega who reads Harry Potter fanfic and buys into all the most ridiculous Woke views on the mutability of sexuality and whose disgusting girlfriend still insisted on keeping other lovers, and he was cool with it, and then she dumped him anyway, and he took it hard but also stayed friends with her. He's a leftist deep in his core, and he wants fellow leftists to love and respect him because he wants everything they want except the puritanical drive to burn heretics like himself at the stake. Which, alas for him, is increasingly all that drives them anymore.

    Replies: @Not Only Wrathful, @EldnahYm, @Not Raul, @Alexander Turok

    Scott is sort of two men in one. On one hand is the intellectually curious and incisive writer, capable far more than most men of setting aside biases in honest pursuit of truth, and to communicate it in a way that is intelligent and enjoyable without being smug. I think this is Scott’s rational self.

    But his irrational self, his heart of hearts, is an omega who reads Harry Potter fanfic and buys into all the most ridiculous Woke views on the mutability of sexuality and whose disgusting girlfriend still insisted on keeping other lovers, and he was cool with it, and then she dumped him anyway, and he took it hard but also stayed friends with her.

    I don’t know if your second paragraph is true or not, but if it is, where’s the contradiction? Men put up with all kinds of [fill in the blank] from women, it has little bearing on their intellectual value. The alternative is often… https://imgur.com/a/NoQ9XXR

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Wency
    @Alexander Turok

    I think there's some truth to what you're saying, but after a point it's still pretty surprising. I can't think of anyone else who better exemplifies a contrast between sober, cogent writing and nutso degenerate (but in a pathetic way) personal life, which he was unashamed to discuss.

  83. @Ron Unz
    @Hmmmr


    This comment and the other one about never having read a single article of Scott Alexander is the most surprising thing I’ve read all week.

    For a guy that runs a weird corner of the internet that is unz.com you would think that other places of the “intellectual dark web” would be known to you.
     
    Well, I dug up the big NYT article from last week and wasn't very impressed. Apparently, lots of Tech people are quite impressed with Alexander's blathering, but this relates to a point I made a year or two ago:

    My strong impression is that most of the leading Silicon Valley people are generally pretty nice and reasonable, but are very politically unsophisticated. They’re totally focused on technology and business issues, and with a few exceptions here and there, don’t really pay any deep attention to politics or ideological matters, sub-contracting out those things to the same “mainstream” opinion-forming elites who provide that role for almost everyone else in our society. Just think of the leading Silicon Valley people as your pleasant, college-educated next door neighbors, who sporadically catch the regular news on TV, glance at the newspaper headlines, and regard that as the reality of the world.
     
    https://www.unz.com/runz/an-open-letter-to-the-alt-right-and-others/

    For example, during the BLM controversy a few months ago Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey, who's worth $5 billion, donated $10 million to a dim-witted pseudo-intellectual black guy named Ibram X. Kendi best known for publishing some book denouncing racism. The Tech people in Alexander's circle are obviously much more rightwingers/libertarians, but perhaps not hugely more sophisticated in their politics.

    Just to be fair to Alexander, I decided to take another look at his Top Posts list, and clicked on the #1 item, which turned out to be a windy analysis of Minimum Wage issues published in 2014.

    Now as it happens, earlier that same year I'd launched America's current national MW movement, including op-eds in the NYT, the LA Times, Forbes, and numerous other publications, and with a big NYT article covering my project. There had also been various front-page stories in Bay Area newspapers, presumably the reason he decided to write about it. But his 2,500 word piece---which he ranked #1 on all-time Top list---seemed so vacuous and "philosophical" I just skimmed it. Basically, a piece on MW issues written by some random psychiatrist-blogger who doesn't know anything about MW issues and isn't trying to investigate them.

    I think the first time I'd ever heard of the "intellectual dark web" was a few years ago when they were given a big cover story in the NYT Magazine, but it didn't provide any details on anything interesting they'd ever said or done. I got the sense they focused on "edgy" things like gingering suggesting that men might be slightly taller than women. Around the same time, David Brooks described Jordan Peterson as America's most important public intellectual, though I'd never heard of him, he didn't seem to say or know anything, and a year or two later he became a drug-addict. Not exactly a true successor to a James Q. Wilson or a Nathan Glazer.

    Someone upthread claimed their longest written work was 500,000 words of Harry Potter fanfic.

    Perhaps one reason I've barely even heard of the "intellectual dark web" people is that they've never said anything I'd find interesting or important.

    Replies: @Morton's toes, @Bumpkin, @Hmmmr

    An analysis of prevalence of autism amongst fans of Scott Alexander and Elizier Yudkowsky and Jordan Peterson might be revealing. On a podcast early last year Tyler Cowen and Eric Weinstein proclaimed Scott as the most important public intellectual in the country. Exactly as Brooks and Peterson.

    They have a rabid fan base. Probably not the kind of fan base anybody would want. Remember the Saturday Night Live skit with William Shatner and the Star Trek fans and him yelling at them to “Get a life”?

    A fan base like that.

    Yet Scott gave me the inside dope on amphetamines in Silicon Valley and the Big Yud entertained me with Roko’s Baselisk, the shangri-la diet, and math pets. And they never did anything to harm me. Also and I have this handy diagnostic on people to be avoided absolutely with extreme prejudice. I consider these free gifts. As Yogi Berra said “you can observe a lot just by watching.”

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    @Morton's toes


    An analysis of prevalence of autism amongst fans of Scott Alexander and Elizier Yudkowsky and Jordan Peterson might be revealing. On a podcast early last year Tyler Cowen and Eric Weinstein proclaimed Scott as the most important public intellectual in the country. Exactly as Brooks and Peterson.
     
    I think I debated Cowen on NPR regarding my Minimum Wage proposal in 2014, and pretty clearly crushed him. In fact, given his ideological framework, I think he called my effective political strategy "diabolical" in one of his columns.

    I had also demolished his close colleague Bryan Caplan in a televised NYC debate a few months earlier, with his "open borders" views being so manifestly ridiculous that even his debate-partner admitted they were absurd:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/open-borders-american-elites-and-the-minimum-wage/

    I don't know anything about Weinstein, but I'd probably consider Cowen's endorsement a negative indicator.

    Replies: @utu

  84. @Ron Unz
    @Hmmmr


    This comment and the other one about never having read a single article of Scott Alexander is the most surprising thing I’ve read all week.

    For a guy that runs a weird corner of the internet that is unz.com you would think that other places of the “intellectual dark web” would be known to you.
     
    Well, I dug up the big NYT article from last week and wasn't very impressed. Apparently, lots of Tech people are quite impressed with Alexander's blathering, but this relates to a point I made a year or two ago:

    My strong impression is that most of the leading Silicon Valley people are generally pretty nice and reasonable, but are very politically unsophisticated. They’re totally focused on technology and business issues, and with a few exceptions here and there, don’t really pay any deep attention to politics or ideological matters, sub-contracting out those things to the same “mainstream” opinion-forming elites who provide that role for almost everyone else in our society. Just think of the leading Silicon Valley people as your pleasant, college-educated next door neighbors, who sporadically catch the regular news on TV, glance at the newspaper headlines, and regard that as the reality of the world.
     
    https://www.unz.com/runz/an-open-letter-to-the-alt-right-and-others/

    For example, during the BLM controversy a few months ago Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey, who's worth $5 billion, donated $10 million to a dim-witted pseudo-intellectual black guy named Ibram X. Kendi best known for publishing some book denouncing racism. The Tech people in Alexander's circle are obviously much more rightwingers/libertarians, but perhaps not hugely more sophisticated in their politics.

    Just to be fair to Alexander, I decided to take another look at his Top Posts list, and clicked on the #1 item, which turned out to be a windy analysis of Minimum Wage issues published in 2014.

    Now as it happens, earlier that same year I'd launched America's current national MW movement, including op-eds in the NYT, the LA Times, Forbes, and numerous other publications, and with a big NYT article covering my project. There had also been various front-page stories in Bay Area newspapers, presumably the reason he decided to write about it. But his 2,500 word piece---which he ranked #1 on all-time Top list---seemed so vacuous and "philosophical" I just skimmed it. Basically, a piece on MW issues written by some random psychiatrist-blogger who doesn't know anything about MW issues and isn't trying to investigate them.

    I think the first time I'd ever heard of the "intellectual dark web" was a few years ago when they were given a big cover story in the NYT Magazine, but it didn't provide any details on anything interesting they'd ever said or done. I got the sense they focused on "edgy" things like gingering suggesting that men might be slightly taller than women. Around the same time, David Brooks described Jordan Peterson as America's most important public intellectual, though I'd never heard of him, he didn't seem to say or know anything, and a year or two later he became a drug-addict. Not exactly a true successor to a James Q. Wilson or a Nathan Glazer.

    Someone upthread claimed their longest written work was 500,000 words of Harry Potter fanfic.

    Perhaps one reason I've barely even heard of the "intellectual dark web" people is that they've never said anything I'd find interesting or important.

    Replies: @Morton's toes, @Bumpkin, @Hmmmr

    I agree that the SV people are not very knowledgeable, but to be fair to them, they have their heads buried in their computers trying to make as much money as they can, as you yourself once did. I like Jordan Peterson more than you, having actually watched many hours of his videos like this BBC interview that went viral for the rank duplicity of his interviewer, and I think the attraction is that in a developed West that has all the material wealth needed for a comfortable life but stripped of moral or spiritual guidance of any kind with the debasement and death of religion, he has taken on a role of a mass father figure with his online video lectures and books.

    While much of what he says is blandly obvious (“Clean your room” is a famous saying), there are many who need it said and he represents the male patriarchy to the Woke left so they have marked him for destruction, as one of the few self-described liberals rebeling against their Woke edicts (he first got famous for calling the Canadian law that forced him to refer to trans people by their preferred pronoun a bad law that he wouldn’t follow, which got him labeled anti-trans even though he said it wasn’t about them and he was only against such laws abridging free speech). He is important in that he wades forcefully and thoughtfully into the culture wars, not in that he has anything ground-breaking to say.

    As for the IDW, there is a heavy jewish flavor to it, so one wonders what their connection is to the neocons. It could be a false front by them as they largely attack the Woke left, who also have significant overlap with the BDS crowd. One senses that the media uses them to enforce the edge of their Overton window, highlighting them as the edge of “respectable” discussion and occasionally sacrificing one, perhaps Scott here, to show the punushment coming if you go over the edge they’ve defined, even when you do so anonymously.

  85. @Ron Unz
    @EldnahYm


    Namely, to poison the well. Just read the New York Times article about him.
     
    Thanks for reminding me. I normally read the NYT closely, but I've been so busy the last week or two producing audio versions of most of my more substantial articles that my NYTs have piled up, so I'll try to take a look at it, which will probably increase my information about him by 50x or so.

    I remember there was some gigantic flurry about Jordan Peterson a few years ago, so I finally tried to watch one of his most popular video lectures, but gave up after about 15m because it was so vacuous and worthless. Didn't he supposedly become a drug addict or something in the last year or two?

    What also shocked me about Jordan was that he was apparently promoting the nonsense that the Jewish IQ is a full SD---15 points---above the white American average, which is just totally absurd. He was also apparently totally unaware of my big Meritocracy article from 2012, even though it got very substantial MSM coverage and was actually ranked as probably the best magazine article of the year by both David Brooks of the NYT and also a top editor at The Economist.

    Peterson is a psychology professor and being so totally ignorant of his own subject-area is just appalling.

    Replies: @Shortsword, @Nodwink

    Jordan Peterson wrote a book twenty-odd years ago called Maps of Meaning. I read a little of this book online, and it seemed clear to me that Peterson had considerable mental health problems, based on his own account of his college years and early adulthood.

    Peterson seems competent or perhaps excellent in his area of expertise, but (like Steven Pinker) is out of his depth when discussing other subjects. I believe that Peterson’s current notoriety stems from his refusal to use gender pronouns when interacting with a student, which created a minor ruckus on campus, which then became a wider controversy.

  86. Elizier Yudkowsky is a typical AI hypester. We’ve been promised AI since the 1950’s and I don’t think we’re going to see it anytime soon. This current wave of AI is based on deep neuro-nets. Instead of having two or three layers, these neuro nets have 8-10 layers, sometimes more, and are “trained” (repetitive pattern recognition tests and “pruning” of the node connections that are not used much). As you might guess, the best application for this technology would be machine vision. Yet, Cognex, the 800 gorilla of machine vision, has barely rolled out machine vision products based on this technology. Deep neuro nets require a LOT of computing power (rack mounted hardware).

    A little background for you: Deep neuronets were actually invented in 1986! I remember hearing about this at the time because this was the year I found myself in the whole transhumanist milieu of SoCal at the time. However, they were not implemented at the time because computing hardware was simply not capable enough (deep neuro nets are computationally intensive) at time. It was only around 2010 or so that the computing hardware had developed to the point that people could start working with deep neuro nets. So, all of the “current” AI hype is based on a technology invented more than 30 years ago. This should tell you something as the “next” technology for AI has yet to be developed, AND Moore’s Law is reaching its limits as semiconductor scaling is now reaching the molecular level. If the same timeline holds true, then assuming the “next” AI technology, comparable to deep neuro nets, gets developed, we’re looking at another potential 30 years for it to actually be developed.

    This is why we’re entering another AI “winter”.

    • Thanks: Bashibuzuk
  87. @utu
    @Chrisnonymous

    Never heard of Yudkowsky and 'the rationalist movement'. Did some search and the picture that emerged is that Yudkowsky is clearly a charlatan in the process of forming a profitable cult like movement and organization targeting Silicon Valley not dissimilar from the L. Ron Hubbard strategy of targeting Hollywood or Ayn Rand targeting NYC intelligentsia orphaned by Trotsky and Stalin deaths. That's were the money is. Yudkowsky gets funding from techno-libertarianism like Peter Thiel. While Hanson is with Mason University that is generously funded by Koch brothers.

    Yudkowsky in his youth during the dot-com bubble allegedly did some coding hoping to get rich. But it came to nothing.


    https://web.archive.org/web/20010205221413/http://sysopmind.com/eliezer.html#timeline_the
    "For two years, from late sixteen through late eighteen, I tried writing a commodities-trading program, by request, for a friend. Eventually I realized that trying to outprogram the stuff already on the market was three years of work for a full team of programmers"

    "Why'd I take on a quixotic project, a tenuous gamble like that? Well, partially because it was there. It was something to do, something I could show my parents that I was doing. And it proved to me that, setting my own hours, and armed with knowledge of how my mind worked, I could work on something for two years without breaking. Part of it was also the immense payoff that a successful trading program would have meant; since childhood, I'd always imagined myself becoming rich first, then funding my own dreams."
     
    He has never completed any tangible project. He discovered that he was a better talker than doer. He realized he could persuade other people to fund him.

    After a while, I admitted to myself that "getting rich and funding everything personally" might be the most emotionally satisfying way to imagine it - the way I'd happened to picture it back in my childhood, when my core dreams were being formed - but it wasn't the fastest and most solid way from point A to point B.
     
    His Machine Intelligence Research Institute (MIRI) is funded by Open Philanthropy ($3-$4 mil per year). His Center for Applied Rationality (CFAR) is funded by Open Philanthropy ($500k), Berkeley Existential Risk Initiative ($300k) and others.

    Then there are LessWrong, Summer Program on Applied Rationality and Cognition (SPARC) and European Summer Program on Rationality (ESPR) that are funded separately.

    He does what libertarians always do for plutocracy and oligarchy:

    Robot Cultist Eliezer Yudkowsky's Ugly Celebration of Plutocracy
    https://amormundi.blogspot.com/2016/01/robot-cultist-eliezer-yudkowskys-ugly.html
     
    The incident of Roko's Basilisk exemplify the best the absurdity of Yudovsky's intellectual universe:
    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/LessWrong#cite_note-61

    Apparently the Roko's Basilisk incident alienated "the head choppers" fellow cryonicists which are somewhere there in the bizarre constellation of libertarian transhumanists.

    Everybody Freeze!
    https://thebaffler.com/salvos/everybody-freeze-pein

    What did change, thanks to the tech bubble, was the combined net worth of the Silicon Valley software engineers who are in the demographic sweet spot of the Alcor business model. Here were young people possessed of the lust for eternal life, who required no PR blitzes to persuade them of technology’s ability to overcome the brute empirical facts of the human condition—many with the outsize ego to cast themselves as Christlike figures awaiting resurrection and the ample self-confidence to ignore all naysayers.

    A self-styled Nietzschean “overman,” More, now fifty-two, achieved geek-world fame as the bodybuilding “strategic philosopher” of the 1990s “extropian” movement. More’s journal, Extropy, promoted seafaring secessionism long before Peter Thiel’s Seasteading Institute hit the scene. It extolled the subversive potential of digital currencies before Bitcoin was a twinkle in Satoshi Nakamoto’s eye. It denounced, with eerie glee, environmentalists, “statists,” and “deathist” cryonics critics who threatened the transhuman future.

    “The abolition of aging and, finally, all causes of death, is essential,” More wrote. Inspired by Nietzsche and Ayn Rand, he held that “transhumanism” was the next great leap in rationalized selfishness, and a necessary corrective to the “outdated values and ideas” of humanism. A fellow extropian, the cryptography pioneer Perry Metzger, formed an email list that was separate yet closely connected to the magazine.
     
    One good thing is that now I understand better where AK was coming from when I have encountered him here at the UR and I am hoping that he grew out of that nonsense.

    Replies: @Ron Unz, @Chrisnonymous

    Never heard of Yudkowsky and ‘the rationalist movement’. Did some search and the picture that emerged is that Yudkowsky is clearly a charlatan in the process of forming a profitable cult like movement and organization targeting Silicon Valley not dissimilar from the L. Ron Hubbard strategy of targeting Hollywood or Ayn Rand targeting NYC intelligentsia orphaned by Trotsky and Stalin deaths.

    Hmmm… It does really sound a little like one of those fraudulent, cult-like “Jewish intellectual movements” that Kevin MacDonald’s writings have heavily documented.

    • Agree: Bashibuzuk
    • Replies: @utu
    @Ron Unz


    It does really sound a little like one of those fraudulent, cult-like “Jewish intellectual movements” that Kevin MacDonald’s writings have heavily documented.
     
    \

    What is different is that Eliezer Shlomo Yudkowsky comes from Orthodox community so he is openly Jewish w/o attempts of crypsis unlike some of leaders of the past movements that Kevin MacDonald analyzed.

    It seems that his younger brother Yehuda committed suicide in 2004:

    https://dailynorthwestern.com/2004/11/07/archive-manual/yudkowsky-19-full-of-ideas-obituary/
    After his freshman year at NU, Yudkowsky, an Orthodox Jew, spent a year studying at Yeshiva Sha’alvim — a seminary for Jewish religious studies in Israel, a decision his father says Yehuda took with great pride.

    Yudkowsky is survived by his father Moshe, his mother Rachel, his brother Eliezer, 25, and his sister Channah, 14. (November 7, 2004)
     
    https://twitter.com/ESYudkowsky/status/947781711659655169

    Glancing at names of staff members of his organizations I would say they are about 50% Jewish.

    Replies: @utu

  88. @Morton's toes
    @Ron Unz

    An analysis of prevalence of autism amongst fans of Scott Alexander and Elizier Yudkowsky and Jordan Peterson might be revealing. On a podcast early last year Tyler Cowen and Eric Weinstein proclaimed Scott as the most important public intellectual in the country. Exactly as Brooks and Peterson.

    They have a rabid fan base. Probably not the kind of fan base anybody would want. Remember the Saturday Night Live skit with William Shatner and the Star Trek fans and him yelling at them to "Get a life"?

    A fan base like that.

    Yet Scott gave me the inside dope on amphetamines in Silicon Valley and the Big Yud entertained me with Roko's Baselisk, the shangri-la diet, and math pets. And they never did anything to harm me. Also and I have this handy diagnostic on people to be avoided absolutely with extreme prejudice. I consider these free gifts. As Yogi Berra said "you can observe a lot just by watching."

    Replies: @Ron Unz

    An analysis of prevalence of autism amongst fans of Scott Alexander and Elizier Yudkowsky and Jordan Peterson might be revealing. On a podcast early last year Tyler Cowen and Eric Weinstein proclaimed Scott as the most important public intellectual in the country. Exactly as Brooks and Peterson.

    I think I debated Cowen on NPR regarding my Minimum Wage proposal in 2014, and pretty clearly crushed him. In fact, given his ideological framework, I think he called my effective political strategy “diabolical” in one of his columns.

    I had also demolished his close colleague Bryan Caplan in a televised NYC debate a few months earlier, with his “open borders” views being so manifestly ridiculous that even his debate-partner admitted they were absurd:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/open-borders-american-elites-and-the-minimum-wage/

    I don’t know anything about Weinstein, but I’d probably consider Cowen’s endorsement a negative indicator.

    • Replies: @utu
    @Ron Unz

    "I don’t know anything about Weinstein" - He is the next Einstein or so he claims.

    Cocktail Party Physics by Jennifer Ouellette on May 24, 2013
    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cocktail-party-physics/dear-guardian-youve-been-played/

    A number of people have been privately asking me about the recent Guardian article (and accompanying Op-Ed by Oxford mathematician Marcus du Sautoy) gushing over a supposedly revolutionary new unified theory of physics by a man who officially left academia 20 years ago. Or, as I've taken to calling it, Eric Weinstein's Amazing New Theory That Solves Every Puzzling Conundrum in Theoretical Physics Only He Hasn't Written An Actual Paper Yet So Physicists Can't Check All Those Hard Mathematical Details But Trust Us, It's Gonna Be Awesome!


    How to test Weinstein's provocative theory of everything
    https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23632-how-to-test-weinsteins-provocative-theory-of-everything/#ixzz6n9qVbPdG
     

    Replies: @Ron Unz

  89. @Ron Unz
    @utu


    Never heard of Yudkowsky and ‘the rationalist movement’. Did some search and the picture that emerged is that Yudkowsky is clearly a charlatan in the process of forming a profitable cult like movement and organization targeting Silicon Valley not dissimilar from the L. Ron Hubbard strategy of targeting Hollywood or Ayn Rand targeting NYC intelligentsia orphaned by Trotsky and Stalin deaths.
     
    Hmmm... It does really sound a little like one of those fraudulent, cult-like "Jewish intellectual movements" that Kevin MacDonald's writings have heavily documented.

    Replies: @utu

    It does really sound a little like one of those fraudulent, cult-like “Jewish intellectual movements” that Kevin MacDonald’s writings have heavily documented.

    \

    What is different is that Eliezer Shlomo Yudkowsky comes from Orthodox community so he is openly Jewish w/o attempts of crypsis unlike some of leaders of the past movements that Kevin MacDonald analyzed.

    It seems that his younger brother Yehuda committed suicide in 2004:

    https://dailynorthwestern.com/2004/11/07/archive-manual/yudkowsky-19-full-of-ideas-obituary/
    After his freshman year at NU, Yudkowsky, an Orthodox Jew, spent a year studying at Yeshiva Sha’alvim — a seminary for Jewish religious studies in Israel, a decision his father says Yehuda took with great pride.

    Yudkowsky is survived by his father Moshe, his mother Rachel, his brother Eliezer, 25, and his sister Channah, 14. (November 7, 2004)

    Glancing at names of staff members of his organizations I would say they are about 50% Jewish.

    • Replies: @utu
    @utu

    Possibly a relative of Eliezer Yudkowsky:


    https://www.comparably.com/companies/aipac/chaim-yudkowsky
    Chaim Yudkowsky — Chief Information Officer at AIPAC
    Chaim Yudkowsky serves as the Chief Information Officer of AIPAC. Chaim started at AIPAC in Jul of 2004. Chaim currently resides in the Washington D.C. Metro Area.
    Chaim Yudkowsky holds the highest position within the IT department at AIPAC — Chief Information Officer, and therefore has influence on the culture of the IT department.
     
    Would AIPAC AI be a thread to humanity? What Eliezer Yudkowsky would say?

    Here is an article by Joshua Fox:


    He has served as a software architect in various Israeli start-ups and growth companies. He received a BA in Mathematics and Judaic Studies from Brandeis and a PhD in Semitic Philology from Harvard. He is a long-time supporter and now a Research Associate of the Singularity Institute for Artificial Intelligence (it change the name to MIRI).
     

    Beyond Otaku: Transhumanism and Judaism (2011)
    https://hplusmagazine.com/2011/08/18/beyond-otaku-transhumanism-and-judaism/

    A disproportionate number of Jews are leaders in Transhumanism, as also in these other Utopian ideologies. This may be due to the influence on Jews of their tradition’s materialist apocalyptic; or this may simply be another case of Jews’ outsized representation in many areas of endeavor in modern society. But either way, a glance at any list of well-known Transhumanists shows that the Jewish people has contributed disproportionately towards this effort to improve humanity’s future. Ironically, the number of Jews involved also means that Judaism also gets a disproportionate amount of the anti-religious reactions common in the movement.
     

  90. @utu
    @Ron Unz


    It does really sound a little like one of those fraudulent, cult-like “Jewish intellectual movements” that Kevin MacDonald’s writings have heavily documented.
     
    \

    What is different is that Eliezer Shlomo Yudkowsky comes from Orthodox community so he is openly Jewish w/o attempts of crypsis unlike some of leaders of the past movements that Kevin MacDonald analyzed.

    It seems that his younger brother Yehuda committed suicide in 2004:

    https://dailynorthwestern.com/2004/11/07/archive-manual/yudkowsky-19-full-of-ideas-obituary/
    After his freshman year at NU, Yudkowsky, an Orthodox Jew, spent a year studying at Yeshiva Sha’alvim — a seminary for Jewish religious studies in Israel, a decision his father says Yehuda took with great pride.

    Yudkowsky is survived by his father Moshe, his mother Rachel, his brother Eliezer, 25, and his sister Channah, 14. (November 7, 2004)
     
    https://twitter.com/ESYudkowsky/status/947781711659655169

    Glancing at names of staff members of his organizations I would say they are about 50% Jewish.

    Replies: @utu

    Possibly a relative of Eliezer Yudkowsky:

    https://www.comparably.com/companies/aipac/chaim-yudkowsky
    Chaim Yudkowsky — Chief Information Officer at AIPAC
    Chaim Yudkowsky serves as the Chief Information Officer of AIPAC. Chaim started at AIPAC in Jul of 2004. Chaim currently resides in the Washington D.C. Metro Area.
    Chaim Yudkowsky holds the highest position within the IT department at AIPAC — Chief Information Officer, and therefore has influence on the culture of the IT department.

    Would AIPAC AI be a thread to humanity? What Eliezer Yudkowsky would say?

    Here is an article by Joshua Fox:

    He has served as a software architect in various Israeli start-ups and growth companies. He received a BA in Mathematics and Judaic Studies from Brandeis and a PhD in Semitic Philology from Harvard. He is a long-time supporter and now a Research Associate of the Singularity Institute for Artificial Intelligence (it change the name to MIRI).

    Beyond Otaku: Transhumanism and Judaism (2011)
    https://hplusmagazine.com/2011/08/18/beyond-otaku-transhumanism-and-judaism/

    A disproportionate number of Jews are leaders in Transhumanism, as also in these other Utopian ideologies. This may be due to the influence on Jews of their tradition’s materialist apocalyptic; or this may simply be another case of Jews’ outsized representation in many areas of endeavor in modern society. But either way, a glance at any list of well-known Transhumanists shows that the Jewish people has contributed disproportionately towards this effort to improve humanity’s future. Ironically, the number of Jews involved also means that Judaism also gets a disproportionate amount of the anti-religious reactions common in the movement.

  91. @Ron Unz
    @Morton's toes


    An analysis of prevalence of autism amongst fans of Scott Alexander and Elizier Yudkowsky and Jordan Peterson might be revealing. On a podcast early last year Tyler Cowen and Eric Weinstein proclaimed Scott as the most important public intellectual in the country. Exactly as Brooks and Peterson.
     
    I think I debated Cowen on NPR regarding my Minimum Wage proposal in 2014, and pretty clearly crushed him. In fact, given his ideological framework, I think he called my effective political strategy "diabolical" in one of his columns.

    I had also demolished his close colleague Bryan Caplan in a televised NYC debate a few months earlier, with his "open borders" views being so manifestly ridiculous that even his debate-partner admitted they were absurd:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/open-borders-american-elites-and-the-minimum-wage/

    I don't know anything about Weinstein, but I'd probably consider Cowen's endorsement a negative indicator.

    Replies: @utu

    “I don’t know anything about Weinstein” – He is the next Einstein or so he claims.

    Cocktail Party Physics by Jennifer Ouellette on May 24, 2013
    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cocktail-party-physics/dear-guardian-youve-been-played/

    A number of people have been privately asking me about the recent Guardian article (and accompanying Op-Ed by Oxford mathematician Marcus du Sautoy) gushing over a supposedly revolutionary new unified theory of physics by a man who officially left academia 20 years ago. Or, as I’ve taken to calling it, Eric Weinstein’s Amazing New Theory That Solves Every Puzzling Conundrum in Theoretical Physics Only He Hasn’t Written An Actual Paper Yet So Physicists Can’t Check All Those Hard Mathematical Details But Trust Us, It’s Gonna Be Awesome!

    How to test Weinstein’s provocative theory of everything
    https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23632-how-to-test-weinsteins-provocative-theory-of-everything/#ixzz6n9qVbPdG

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    @utu


    A number of people have been privately asking me about the recent Guardian article (and accompanying Op-Ed by Oxford mathematician Marcus du Sautoy) gushing over a supposedly revolutionary new unified theory of physics by a man who officially left academia 20 years ago.
     
    I clicked a couple of those links, and they were totally devastating...

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23632-how-to-test-weinsteins-provocative-theory-of-everything/

    Perhaps more fundamental yet, it should be possible to perform a calculation called anomaly cancellation on Weinstein’s equations, says Conlon. This checks whether a list of particles is a consistent extension of the standard model, much like the digits of a credit card number can be added in a certain way to confirm their validity. If the predicted particles fail the test, the theory is wrong. “It would take an hour and a half,” Conlon said to Weinstein at the lecture.

    “Can I ask you to do that?” countered Weinstein, who admitted that he did not have answers to these and other questions raised by his talk, but said he would like to discuss them further.
     
    https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23595-weinsteins-theory-of-everything-is-probably-nothing/

    Until yesterday Weinstein was largely unknown to us. He has a PhD in mathematical physics from Harvard University, but left academia years ago and now makes his living as an economist and consultant at a New York hedge fund...

    Hosting a lecture in a university physics department without inviting any physicists is, at best, an unforgivable oversight. As my colleague Subir Sarkar put it, “It’s surprising that the organisers did not invite the particle physicists to attend – if indeed the intention was to have a discussion.”
     
    All the articles about Weinstein's "breakthrough" were from eight years ago, and since I've never since heard anything about them since, the whole thing must have been nonsense.

    Offhand, since Weinstein left physics almost thirty years ago but works at a hedge fund, it sounds like he just bribed Oxford to let him give a vanity-talk, which greatly irritated the actual physicists there. Jeffrey Epstein was a college drop-out, but I think he paid many millions to Harvard and MIT so he could pretend he had a legitimate connection with those institutions.

    The whole thing sounds totally in keeping with that big NYT article about Scott Alexander and his circle of allies, who regard Alexander as America's foremost "public intellectual."

    Replies: @utu, @Chrisnonymous

  92. @Ron Unz
    @Hmmmr


    This comment and the other one about never having read a single article of Scott Alexander is the most surprising thing I’ve read all week.

    For a guy that runs a weird corner of the internet that is unz.com you would think that other places of the “intellectual dark web” would be known to you.
     
    Well, I dug up the big NYT article from last week and wasn't very impressed. Apparently, lots of Tech people are quite impressed with Alexander's blathering, but this relates to a point I made a year or two ago:

    My strong impression is that most of the leading Silicon Valley people are generally pretty nice and reasonable, but are very politically unsophisticated. They’re totally focused on technology and business issues, and with a few exceptions here and there, don’t really pay any deep attention to politics or ideological matters, sub-contracting out those things to the same “mainstream” opinion-forming elites who provide that role for almost everyone else in our society. Just think of the leading Silicon Valley people as your pleasant, college-educated next door neighbors, who sporadically catch the regular news on TV, glance at the newspaper headlines, and regard that as the reality of the world.
     
    https://www.unz.com/runz/an-open-letter-to-the-alt-right-and-others/

    For example, during the BLM controversy a few months ago Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey, who's worth $5 billion, donated $10 million to a dim-witted pseudo-intellectual black guy named Ibram X. Kendi best known for publishing some book denouncing racism. The Tech people in Alexander's circle are obviously much more rightwingers/libertarians, but perhaps not hugely more sophisticated in their politics.

    Just to be fair to Alexander, I decided to take another look at his Top Posts list, and clicked on the #1 item, which turned out to be a windy analysis of Minimum Wage issues published in 2014.

    Now as it happens, earlier that same year I'd launched America's current national MW movement, including op-eds in the NYT, the LA Times, Forbes, and numerous other publications, and with a big NYT article covering my project. There had also been various front-page stories in Bay Area newspapers, presumably the reason he decided to write about it. But his 2,500 word piece---which he ranked #1 on all-time Top list---seemed so vacuous and "philosophical" I just skimmed it. Basically, a piece on MW issues written by some random psychiatrist-blogger who doesn't know anything about MW issues and isn't trying to investigate them.

    I think the first time I'd ever heard of the "intellectual dark web" was a few years ago when they were given a big cover story in the NYT Magazine, but it didn't provide any details on anything interesting they'd ever said or done. I got the sense they focused on "edgy" things like gingering suggesting that men might be slightly taller than women. Around the same time, David Brooks described Jordan Peterson as America's most important public intellectual, though I'd never heard of him, he didn't seem to say or know anything, and a year or two later he became a drug-addict. Not exactly a true successor to a James Q. Wilson or a Nathan Glazer.

    Someone upthread claimed their longest written work was 500,000 words of Harry Potter fanfic.

    Perhaps one reason I've barely even heard of the "intellectual dark web" people is that they've never said anything I'd find interesting or important.

    Replies: @Morton's toes, @Bumpkin, @Hmmmr

    Fair enough.

    Also, you’ve got it completely wrong on Peterson. His message isn’t interesting or important to you, because his message isn’t for you or any other high status Ivy Leaguer-millionaire-businessman.

    Presumably you publish your opinions on the Minimum Wage, not because you are pining to land a job, but rather you care about society in general and would benefit indirectly from a well functioning one.

    Peterson’s message is for lost, disaffected, depressed, young men in a world increasing hostile to merit. In an age where prestige media is telling young black men that they have no agency over their actions, Peterson is teaching young men to be truthful and to take responsibility for oneself, instead of being angry and looking to blame others.

    The affluent class has a really hard time of figuring out what’s actually good for the working class. So when they see advice like, clean your room and stand up straight, they just don’t see what the fuss is about, oblivious to the fact the working class don’t have Fathers in the household.

    Instead of dismissing Peterson we should be thanking him. It’s hard to fault you for not seeing Peterson’s value, as you are simply too far removed from the target audience of non high status young men.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    @Hmmmr


    Peterson’s message is for lost, disaffected, depressed, young men in a world increasing hostile to merit. In an age where prestige media is telling young black men that they have no agency over their actions, Peterson is teaching young men to be truthful and to take responsibility for oneself, instead of being angry and looking to blame others...So when they see advice like, clean your room and stand up straight, they just don’t see what the fuss is about, oblivious to the fact the working class don’t have Fathers in the household.
     
    Sure, he sounds like a perfectly reasonable self-help guru, though the fact that he supposedly used his inflow of sudden cash to become a drug-addict might somewhat detract from his message.

    But when I tried listening to one of his most leading talks a couple of years ago, he didn't seem to know anything about the subject in question, so I just question David Brooks' claiming that he had become America's most important public "intellectual."
    , @Morton's toes
    @Hmmmr

    > Peterson’s message is for lost, disaffected, depressed, young men in a world increasing hostile to merit. In an age where prestige media is telling young black men that they have no agency over their actions, Peterson is teaching young men to be truthful and to take responsibility for oneself, instead of being angry and looking to blame others.

    Peterson tirelessly promotes the Big 5 Personality Model. This is a creation of Defense Intelligence research projects explicitly designed for controlling populations. Like those disaffected depressed young men.

    Peterson isn't just of mediocre competence. He also is a hypocrite.

  93. @Hmmmr
    @Ron Unz

    Fair enough.

    Also, you’ve got it completely wrong on Peterson. His message isn’t interesting or important to you, because his message isn’t for you or any other high status Ivy Leaguer-millionaire-businessman.

    Presumably you publish your opinions on the Minimum Wage, not because you are pining to land a job, but rather you care about society in general and would benefit indirectly from a well functioning one.

    Peterson’s message is for lost, disaffected, depressed, young men in a world increasing hostile to merit. In an age where prestige media is telling young black men that they have no agency over their actions, Peterson is teaching young men to be truthful and to take responsibility for oneself, instead of being angry and looking to blame others.

    The affluent class has a really hard time of figuring out what’s actually good for the working class. So when they see advice like, clean your room and stand up straight, they just don’t see what the fuss is about, oblivious to the fact the working class don’t have Fathers in the household.

    Instead of dismissing Peterson we should be thanking him. It’s hard to fault you for not seeing Peterson’s value, as you are simply too far removed from the target audience of non high status young men.

    Replies: @Ron Unz, @Morton's toes

    Peterson’s message is for lost, disaffected, depressed, young men in a world increasing hostile to merit. In an age where prestige media is telling young black men that they have no agency over their actions, Peterson is teaching young men to be truthful and to take responsibility for oneself, instead of being angry and looking to blame others…So when they see advice like, clean your room and stand up straight, they just don’t see what the fuss is about, oblivious to the fact the working class don’t have Fathers in the household.

    Sure, he sounds like a perfectly reasonable self-help guru, though the fact that he supposedly used his inflow of sudden cash to become a drug-addict might somewhat detract from his message.

    But when I tried listening to one of his most leading talks a couple of years ago, he didn’t seem to know anything about the subject in question, so I just question David Brooks’ claiming that he had become America’s most important public “intellectual.”

  94. @utu
    @Ron Unz

    "I don’t know anything about Weinstein" - He is the next Einstein or so he claims.

    Cocktail Party Physics by Jennifer Ouellette on May 24, 2013
    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cocktail-party-physics/dear-guardian-youve-been-played/

    A number of people have been privately asking me about the recent Guardian article (and accompanying Op-Ed by Oxford mathematician Marcus du Sautoy) gushing over a supposedly revolutionary new unified theory of physics by a man who officially left academia 20 years ago. Or, as I've taken to calling it, Eric Weinstein's Amazing New Theory That Solves Every Puzzling Conundrum in Theoretical Physics Only He Hasn't Written An Actual Paper Yet So Physicists Can't Check All Those Hard Mathematical Details But Trust Us, It's Gonna Be Awesome!


    How to test Weinstein's provocative theory of everything
    https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23632-how-to-test-weinsteins-provocative-theory-of-everything/#ixzz6n9qVbPdG
     

    Replies: @Ron Unz

    A number of people have been privately asking me about the recent Guardian article (and accompanying Op-Ed by Oxford mathematician Marcus du Sautoy) gushing over a supposedly revolutionary new unified theory of physics by a man who officially left academia 20 years ago.

    I clicked a couple of those links, and they were totally devastating…

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23632-how-to-test-weinsteins-provocative-theory-of-everything/

    Perhaps more fundamental yet, it should be possible to perform a calculation called anomaly cancellation on Weinstein’s equations, says Conlon. This checks whether a list of particles is a consistent extension of the standard model, much like the digits of a credit card number can be added in a certain way to confirm their validity. If the predicted particles fail the test, the theory is wrong. “It would take an hour and a half,” Conlon said to Weinstein at the lecture.

    “Can I ask you to do that?” countered Weinstein, who admitted that he did not have answers to these and other questions raised by his talk, but said he would like to discuss them further.

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23595-weinsteins-theory-of-everything-is-probably-nothing/

    Until yesterday Weinstein was largely unknown to us. He has a PhD in mathematical physics from Harvard University, but left academia years ago and now makes his living as an economist and consultant at a New York hedge fund…

    Hosting a lecture in a university physics department without inviting any physicists is, at best, an unforgivable oversight. As my colleague Subir Sarkar put it, “It’s surprising that the organisers did not invite the particle physicists to attend – if indeed the intention was to have a discussion.”

    All the articles about Weinstein’s “breakthrough” were from eight years ago, and since I’ve never since heard anything about them since, the whole thing must have been nonsense.

    Offhand, since Weinstein left physics almost thirty years ago but works at a hedge fund, it sounds like he just bribed Oxford to let him give a vanity-talk, which greatly irritated the actual physicists there. Jeffrey Epstein was a college drop-out, but I think he paid many millions to Harvard and MIT so he could pretend he had a legitimate connection with those institutions.

    The whole thing sounds totally in keeping with that big NYT article about Scott Alexander and his circle of allies, who regard Alexander as America’s foremost “public intellectual.”

    • Replies: @utu
    @Ron Unz

    Weinstein knew Epstein and was at his house in 2003/2004


    Transcript: Eric Weinstein discusses Jeffrey Epstein “The Construct” – episode 25
    https://moses.land/transcript-eric-weinstein-discusses-jeffrey-epstein-the-construct-episode-25/

    ...unfortunately for me, I met Jeffrey Epstein, in 2004, I think or perhaps 2003. And I met him in his home in Manhattan on 71st Street. When he took an interest in talking to me both as a scientist and as somebody who was interested in foreign exchange trading. I found that meeting so bizarre and so remarkable that it has stuck with me ever since. Recently, when the news turned to Jeffrey Epstein, my wife said to me, you know, Eric, you called this when you met him early on. I said, What do you remember? And she said, that you called me immediately afterwards, and you said, I’ve just met a construct. And she asked what it was a construct, and I said, I met somebody who appears to be a hedge fund billionaire, who I don’t think is actually in fact involved, particularly in hedge fund trading. I felt like what I was meeting was an actor, an actor who’d been hired or constructed to play a part ever since that Meeting, I’ve used one word and one word alone. When talking about Jeffrey Epstein, and particularly with people who knew him who were friends or acquaintances or colleagues of mine, and by using the word construct repeatedly, I attempted to make an indelible image that I was very bothered and was in fact making a prediction that one day it was quite probable, although not definite, and certainly not certain
     
    , @Chrisnonymous
    @Ron Unz

    I was a reader of and commented on Scott Alexander's blog as was your Steve Sailer. I don't think many of his readers would describe him as a public intellectual. However, you underestimate him and the "rationalist" community, I suspect.

    Weinstein claims that he will release a standard paper about his ideas on the near future. Perhaps I am wrong, but I was under the impression Weinstein was trained as a mathematician, not a physicist.

    Replies: @Ron Unz

  95. @Ron Unz
    @utu


    A number of people have been privately asking me about the recent Guardian article (and accompanying Op-Ed by Oxford mathematician Marcus du Sautoy) gushing over a supposedly revolutionary new unified theory of physics by a man who officially left academia 20 years ago.
     
    I clicked a couple of those links, and they were totally devastating...

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23632-how-to-test-weinsteins-provocative-theory-of-everything/

    Perhaps more fundamental yet, it should be possible to perform a calculation called anomaly cancellation on Weinstein’s equations, says Conlon. This checks whether a list of particles is a consistent extension of the standard model, much like the digits of a credit card number can be added in a certain way to confirm their validity. If the predicted particles fail the test, the theory is wrong. “It would take an hour and a half,” Conlon said to Weinstein at the lecture.

    “Can I ask you to do that?” countered Weinstein, who admitted that he did not have answers to these and other questions raised by his talk, but said he would like to discuss them further.
     
    https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23595-weinsteins-theory-of-everything-is-probably-nothing/

    Until yesterday Weinstein was largely unknown to us. He has a PhD in mathematical physics from Harvard University, but left academia years ago and now makes his living as an economist and consultant at a New York hedge fund...

    Hosting a lecture in a university physics department without inviting any physicists is, at best, an unforgivable oversight. As my colleague Subir Sarkar put it, “It’s surprising that the organisers did not invite the particle physicists to attend – if indeed the intention was to have a discussion.”
     
    All the articles about Weinstein's "breakthrough" were from eight years ago, and since I've never since heard anything about them since, the whole thing must have been nonsense.

    Offhand, since Weinstein left physics almost thirty years ago but works at a hedge fund, it sounds like he just bribed Oxford to let him give a vanity-talk, which greatly irritated the actual physicists there. Jeffrey Epstein was a college drop-out, but I think he paid many millions to Harvard and MIT so he could pretend he had a legitimate connection with those institutions.

    The whole thing sounds totally in keeping with that big NYT article about Scott Alexander and his circle of allies, who regard Alexander as America's foremost "public intellectual."

    Replies: @utu, @Chrisnonymous

    Weinstein knew Epstein and was at his house in 2003/2004

    Transcript: Eric Weinstein discusses Jeffrey Epstein “The Construct” – episode 25
    https://moses.land/transcript-eric-weinstein-discusses-jeffrey-epstein-the-construct-episode-25/

    …unfortunately for me, I met Jeffrey Epstein, in 2004, I think or perhaps 2003. And I met him in his home in Manhattan on 71st Street. When he took an interest in talking to me both as a scientist and as somebody who was interested in foreign exchange trading. I found that meeting so bizarre and so remarkable that it has stuck with me ever since. Recently, when the news turned to Jeffrey Epstein, my wife said to me, you know, Eric, you called this when you met him early on. I said, What do you remember? And she said, that you called me immediately afterwards, and you said, I’ve just met a construct. And she asked what it was a construct, and I said, I met somebody who appears to be a hedge fund billionaire, who I don’t think is actually in fact involved, particularly in hedge fund trading. I felt like what I was meeting was an actor, an actor who’d been hired or constructed to play a part ever since that Meeting, I’ve used one word and one word alone. When talking about Jeffrey Epstein, and particularly with people who knew him who were friends or acquaintances or colleagues of mine, and by using the word construct repeatedly, I attempted to make an indelible image that I was very bothered and was in fact making a prediction that one day it was quite probable, although not definite, and certainly not certain

  96. @Hmmmr
    @Ron Unz

    Fair enough.

    Also, you’ve got it completely wrong on Peterson. His message isn’t interesting or important to you, because his message isn’t for you or any other high status Ivy Leaguer-millionaire-businessman.

    Presumably you publish your opinions on the Minimum Wage, not because you are pining to land a job, but rather you care about society in general and would benefit indirectly from a well functioning one.

    Peterson’s message is for lost, disaffected, depressed, young men in a world increasing hostile to merit. In an age where prestige media is telling young black men that they have no agency over their actions, Peterson is teaching young men to be truthful and to take responsibility for oneself, instead of being angry and looking to blame others.

    The affluent class has a really hard time of figuring out what’s actually good for the working class. So when they see advice like, clean your room and stand up straight, they just don’t see what the fuss is about, oblivious to the fact the working class don’t have Fathers in the household.

    Instead of dismissing Peterson we should be thanking him. It’s hard to fault you for not seeing Peterson’s value, as you are simply too far removed from the target audience of non high status young men.

    Replies: @Ron Unz, @Morton's toes

    > Peterson’s message is for lost, disaffected, depressed, young men in a world increasing hostile to merit. In an age where prestige media is telling young black men that they have no agency over their actions, Peterson is teaching young men to be truthful and to take responsibility for oneself, instead of being angry and looking to blame others.

    Peterson tirelessly promotes the Big 5 Personality Model. This is a creation of Defense Intelligence research projects explicitly designed for controlling populations. Like those disaffected depressed young men.

    Peterson isn’t just of mediocre competence. He also is a hypocrite.

  97. @Ron Unz
    Well, I'd have to admit I don't think I've ever read anything he's written and had only been very vaguely aware of him prior to the big flap about his sudden departure from the Internet.

    My impression is that he tended to write half-way "edgy" quasi-HBD analysis, the sort of thing that virtually every intellectual in the world would have considered rather bland and milquetoast back fifty or sixty years ago. Didn't that silly Jordan Peterson fellow become famous because he was "daring" enough to suggest that men might generally be a bit taller than women or something like that?

    Since some of the commenters here seem far more knowledgeable about Alexander, I wonder if they could provide links to three or four of his most interesting pieces so I could judge for myself if there's any there there?

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin, @Not Only Wrathful, @Chrisnonymous, @Morton's toes, @res, @Elsewhere, @gabriel alberton, @EldnahYm

    One difference between the two is probably worth noting. Jordan Peterson is pretty transparently a grifter. I’m not sure that’s true of Scott Alexander.

  98. @Alexander Turok
    @Wency


    Scott is sort of two men in one. On one hand is the intellectually curious and incisive writer, capable far more than most men of setting aside biases in honest pursuit of truth, and to communicate it in a way that is intelligent and enjoyable without being smug. I think this is Scott’s rational self.

    But his irrational self, his heart of hearts, is an omega who reads Harry Potter fanfic and buys into all the most ridiculous Woke views on the mutability of sexuality and whose disgusting girlfriend still insisted on keeping other lovers, and he was cool with it, and then she dumped him anyway, and he took it hard but also stayed friends with her.
     
    I don't know if your second paragraph is true or not, but if it is, where's the contradiction? Men put up with all kinds of [fill in the blank] from women, it has little bearing on their intellectual value. The alternative is often... https://imgur.com/a/NoQ9XXR

    Replies: @Wency

    I think there’s some truth to what you’re saying, but after a point it’s still pretty surprising. I can’t think of anyone else who better exemplifies a contrast between sober, cogent writing and nutso degenerate (but in a pathetic way) personal life, which he was unashamed to discuss.

  99. • Replies: @MEH 0910
    @MEH 0910

    https://twitter.com/DrugGovoruna/status/1363675092740284419
    https://twitter.com/InfraredArmy/status/1363678084466106369
    https://twitter.com/InfraredArmy/status/1363678824546902016

  100. @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/willwilkinson/status/1362668232029573120

    https://twitter.com/RichardHanania/status/1363663668416704512

    Replies: @MEH 0910

  101. @Ron Unz
    @utu


    A number of people have been privately asking me about the recent Guardian article (and accompanying Op-Ed by Oxford mathematician Marcus du Sautoy) gushing over a supposedly revolutionary new unified theory of physics by a man who officially left academia 20 years ago.
     
    I clicked a couple of those links, and they were totally devastating...

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23632-how-to-test-weinsteins-provocative-theory-of-everything/

    Perhaps more fundamental yet, it should be possible to perform a calculation called anomaly cancellation on Weinstein’s equations, says Conlon. This checks whether a list of particles is a consistent extension of the standard model, much like the digits of a credit card number can be added in a certain way to confirm their validity. If the predicted particles fail the test, the theory is wrong. “It would take an hour and a half,” Conlon said to Weinstein at the lecture.

    “Can I ask you to do that?” countered Weinstein, who admitted that he did not have answers to these and other questions raised by his talk, but said he would like to discuss them further.
     
    https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23595-weinsteins-theory-of-everything-is-probably-nothing/

    Until yesterday Weinstein was largely unknown to us. He has a PhD in mathematical physics from Harvard University, but left academia years ago and now makes his living as an economist and consultant at a New York hedge fund...

    Hosting a lecture in a university physics department without inviting any physicists is, at best, an unforgivable oversight. As my colleague Subir Sarkar put it, “It’s surprising that the organisers did not invite the particle physicists to attend – if indeed the intention was to have a discussion.”
     
    All the articles about Weinstein's "breakthrough" were from eight years ago, and since I've never since heard anything about them since, the whole thing must have been nonsense.

    Offhand, since Weinstein left physics almost thirty years ago but works at a hedge fund, it sounds like he just bribed Oxford to let him give a vanity-talk, which greatly irritated the actual physicists there. Jeffrey Epstein was a college drop-out, but I think he paid many millions to Harvard and MIT so he could pretend he had a legitimate connection with those institutions.

    The whole thing sounds totally in keeping with that big NYT article about Scott Alexander and his circle of allies, who regard Alexander as America's foremost "public intellectual."

    Replies: @utu, @Chrisnonymous

    I was a reader of and commented on Scott Alexander’s blog as was your Steve Sailer. I don’t think many of his readers would describe him as a public intellectual. However, you underestimate him and the “rationalist” community, I suspect.

    Weinstein claims that he will release a standard paper about his ideas on the near future. Perhaps I am wrong, but I was under the impression Weinstein was trained as a mathematician, not a physicist.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    @Chrisnonymous


    Weinstein claims that he will release a standard paper about his ideas on the near future. Perhaps I am wrong, but I was under the impression Weinstein was trained as a mathematician, not a physicist.
     
    Well, I don't know anything about the Weinstein fellow, but according to those articles someone linked upthread, about seven or eight years ago, he claimed to have already developed a revolutionary theory unifying all of modern physics or something. But although he apparently paid some PR people to get a big story about his breakthrough into the front-pages of the British newspapers at the time, he said his theory was still "secret" and he couldn't show it to anyone. When some actual physicists asked him a few very basic questions, he didn't have any answers.

    Eight years have now gone by, and you say he's now planning to release his paper "in the near future."

    Maybe. And maybe the QAnon people are also correct and Donald Trump is about to implement his secret plan to arrest all the Democrats and put the Satanic pedophile cannibals out of business.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @Chrisnonymous

  102. @utu
    @Chrisnonymous

    Never heard of Yudkowsky and 'the rationalist movement'. Did some search and the picture that emerged is that Yudkowsky is clearly a charlatan in the process of forming a profitable cult like movement and organization targeting Silicon Valley not dissimilar from the L. Ron Hubbard strategy of targeting Hollywood or Ayn Rand targeting NYC intelligentsia orphaned by Trotsky and Stalin deaths. That's were the money is. Yudkowsky gets funding from techno-libertarianism like Peter Thiel. While Hanson is with Mason University that is generously funded by Koch brothers.

    Yudkowsky in his youth during the dot-com bubble allegedly did some coding hoping to get rich. But it came to nothing.


    https://web.archive.org/web/20010205221413/http://sysopmind.com/eliezer.html#timeline_the
    "For two years, from late sixteen through late eighteen, I tried writing a commodities-trading program, by request, for a friend. Eventually I realized that trying to outprogram the stuff already on the market was three years of work for a full team of programmers"

    "Why'd I take on a quixotic project, a tenuous gamble like that? Well, partially because it was there. It was something to do, something I could show my parents that I was doing. And it proved to me that, setting my own hours, and armed with knowledge of how my mind worked, I could work on something for two years without breaking. Part of it was also the immense payoff that a successful trading program would have meant; since childhood, I'd always imagined myself becoming rich first, then funding my own dreams."
     
    He has never completed any tangible project. He discovered that he was a better talker than doer. He realized he could persuade other people to fund him.

    After a while, I admitted to myself that "getting rich and funding everything personally" might be the most emotionally satisfying way to imagine it - the way I'd happened to picture it back in my childhood, when my core dreams were being formed - but it wasn't the fastest and most solid way from point A to point B.
     
    His Machine Intelligence Research Institute (MIRI) is funded by Open Philanthropy ($3-$4 mil per year). His Center for Applied Rationality (CFAR) is funded by Open Philanthropy ($500k), Berkeley Existential Risk Initiative ($300k) and others.

    Then there are LessWrong, Summer Program on Applied Rationality and Cognition (SPARC) and European Summer Program on Rationality (ESPR) that are funded separately.

    He does what libertarians always do for plutocracy and oligarchy:

    Robot Cultist Eliezer Yudkowsky's Ugly Celebration of Plutocracy
    https://amormundi.blogspot.com/2016/01/robot-cultist-eliezer-yudkowskys-ugly.html
     
    The incident of Roko's Basilisk exemplify the best the absurdity of Yudovsky's intellectual universe:
    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/LessWrong#cite_note-61

    Apparently the Roko's Basilisk incident alienated "the head choppers" fellow cryonicists which are somewhere there in the bizarre constellation of libertarian transhumanists.

    Everybody Freeze!
    https://thebaffler.com/salvos/everybody-freeze-pein

    What did change, thanks to the tech bubble, was the combined net worth of the Silicon Valley software engineers who are in the demographic sweet spot of the Alcor business model. Here were young people possessed of the lust for eternal life, who required no PR blitzes to persuade them of technology’s ability to overcome the brute empirical facts of the human condition—many with the outsize ego to cast themselves as Christlike figures awaiting resurrection and the ample self-confidence to ignore all naysayers.

    A self-styled Nietzschean “overman,” More, now fifty-two, achieved geek-world fame as the bodybuilding “strategic philosopher” of the 1990s “extropian” movement. More’s journal, Extropy, promoted seafaring secessionism long before Peter Thiel’s Seasteading Institute hit the scene. It extolled the subversive potential of digital currencies before Bitcoin was a twinkle in Satoshi Nakamoto’s eye. It denounced, with eerie glee, environmentalists, “statists,” and “deathist” cryonics critics who threatened the transhuman future.

    “The abolition of aging and, finally, all causes of death, is essential,” More wrote. Inspired by Nietzsche and Ayn Rand, he held that “transhumanism” was the next great leap in rationalized selfishness, and a necessary corrective to the “outdated values and ideas” of humanism. A fellow extropian, the cryptography pioneer Perry Metzger, formed an email list that was separate yet closely connected to the magazine.
     
    One good thing is that now I understand better where AK was coming from when I have encountered him here at the UR and I am hoping that he grew out of that nonsense.

    Replies: @Ron Unz, @Chrisnonymous

    You have a superficial impression of Yudkowsky. You should spend more time interacting with Rationalists and the AI alignment theories Yudkowsky has helped develop.

  103. @Chrisnonymous
    @Ron Unz

    I was a reader of and commented on Scott Alexander's blog as was your Steve Sailer. I don't think many of his readers would describe him as a public intellectual. However, you underestimate him and the "rationalist" community, I suspect.

    Weinstein claims that he will release a standard paper about his ideas on the near future. Perhaps I am wrong, but I was under the impression Weinstein was trained as a mathematician, not a physicist.

    Replies: @Ron Unz

    Weinstein claims that he will release a standard paper about his ideas on the near future. Perhaps I am wrong, but I was under the impression Weinstein was trained as a mathematician, not a physicist.

    Well, I don’t know anything about the Weinstein fellow, but according to those articles someone linked upthread, about seven or eight years ago, he claimed to have already developed a revolutionary theory unifying all of modern physics or something. But although he apparently paid some PR people to get a big story about his breakthrough into the front-pages of the British newspapers at the time, he said his theory was still “secret” and he couldn’t show it to anyone. When some actual physicists asked him a few very basic questions, he didn’t have any answers.

    Eight years have now gone by, and you say he’s now planning to release his paper “in the near future.”

    Maybe. And maybe the QAnon people are also correct and Donald Trump is about to implement his secret plan to arrest all the Democrats and put the Satanic pedophile cannibals out of business.

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    @Ron Unz

    https://twitter.com/FluorescentGrey/status/1365008922377998337

    You might find this interesting.

    , @Chrisnonymous
    @Ron Unz

    You may be right. When I watch him, though, my charlatan alarms don't go off. I'm not saying I believe he has a revolutionary theory that's correct, but maybe he thinks he does.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ifX_JnBfxTY

    Replies: @MEH 0910

  104. @Ron Unz
    @Chrisnonymous


    Weinstein claims that he will release a standard paper about his ideas on the near future. Perhaps I am wrong, but I was under the impression Weinstein was trained as a mathematician, not a physicist.
     
    Well, I don't know anything about the Weinstein fellow, but according to those articles someone linked upthread, about seven or eight years ago, he claimed to have already developed a revolutionary theory unifying all of modern physics or something. But although he apparently paid some PR people to get a big story about his breakthrough into the front-pages of the British newspapers at the time, he said his theory was still "secret" and he couldn't show it to anyone. When some actual physicists asked him a few very basic questions, he didn't have any answers.

    Eight years have now gone by, and you say he's now planning to release his paper "in the near future."

    Maybe. And maybe the QAnon people are also correct and Donald Trump is about to implement his secret plan to arrest all the Democrats and put the Satanic pedophile cannibals out of business.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @Chrisnonymous

    You might find this interesting.

  105. @Ron Unz
    @Chrisnonymous


    Weinstein claims that he will release a standard paper about his ideas on the near future. Perhaps I am wrong, but I was under the impression Weinstein was trained as a mathematician, not a physicist.
     
    Well, I don't know anything about the Weinstein fellow, but according to those articles someone linked upthread, about seven or eight years ago, he claimed to have already developed a revolutionary theory unifying all of modern physics or something. But although he apparently paid some PR people to get a big story about his breakthrough into the front-pages of the British newspapers at the time, he said his theory was still "secret" and he couldn't show it to anyone. When some actual physicists asked him a few very basic questions, he didn't have any answers.

    Eight years have now gone by, and you say he's now planning to release his paper "in the near future."

    Maybe. And maybe the QAnon people are also correct and Donald Trump is about to implement his secret plan to arrest all the Democrats and put the Satanic pedophile cannibals out of business.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @Chrisnonymous

    You may be right. When I watch him, though, my charlatan alarms don’t go off. I’m not saying I believe he has a revolutionary theory that’s correct, but maybe he thinks he does.

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    @Chrisnonymous

    http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2021/03/guest-post-problems-with-eric.html


    [Guest Post] Problems with Eric Weinstein's “Geometric Unity”
     
  106. @Chrisnonymous
    @Ron Unz

    You may be right. When I watch him, though, my charlatan alarms don't go off. I'm not saying I believe he has a revolutionary theory that's correct, but maybe he thinks he does.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ifX_JnBfxTY

    Replies: @MEH 0910

    http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2021/03/guest-post-problems-with-eric.html

    [Guest Post] Problems with Eric Weinstein’s “Geometric Unity”

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