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  1. You know who else was German? Oh, wait, he was Austrian.

    Seriously, I’ve seen this all the time–Sailer comments on something, it’s all over the NYT or something similar 2 weeks later. He’s got to be the most-plagiarized journalist around.

  2. I suppose you’re referring to Sailer’s “invade the world/invite the world”…but I’m afraid the similiarity is only superficial. The newspaper is probably intending rather something along the lines of “Germany sells so many weapons in the world and is thereby responsible for the wars these weapons are used in, we have a moral duty to take in all those refugees – it’s our fault they’re suffering! We’re the guilty ones!”. It’s a sentiment very common among the “refugees welcome” crowd, not least among those of a religious bent. It’s total nonsense in my opinion, and a deeply flawed way of understanding what’s going on…crucially important data like demographic trends is totally ignored in that view.

    • Replies: @5371
    It's interesting that no fan of the invasion can stick to the line about the invaluable economic benefits it is going to bring with any consistency. The onion-fuelled discourse about "human rights", which was their first resort, is also their last.
    , @bossel

    “Germany sells so many weapons in the world and is thereby responsible for the wars these weapons are used in, we have a moral duty to take in all those refugees – it’s our fault they’re suffering! We’re the guilty ones!”
     
    Yep, that's it, most probably. Just the usual German guilt trip.

    This cartoon by the same artist seems to confirm it:
    http://de.toonpool.com/cartoons/Menschlichkeit_257556
    Text: "Humaneness! Humaneness! We have to put that aside for now, else we never get the refugee problem solved."
    Which is, for what I understand, criticizing efforts to more realistically cope with the situation instead of just doing the "right thing".

    BTW, the cartoon Karlin posted can be found there, too:
    http://de.toonpool.com/cartoons/Waffenexport_257336
    No need to copy the pic from an actual newspaper.
  3. @German_reader
    I suppose you're referring to Sailer's "invade the world/invite the world"...but I'm afraid the similiarity is only superficial. The newspaper is probably intending rather something along the lines of "Germany sells so many weapons in the world and is thereby responsible for the wars these weapons are used in, we have a moral duty to take in all those refugees - it's our fault they're suffering! We're the guilty ones!". It's a sentiment very common among the "refugees welcome" crowd, not least among those of a religious bent. It's total nonsense in my opinion, and a deeply flawed way of understanding what's going on...crucially important data like demographic trends is totally ignored in that view.

    It’s interesting that no fan of the invasion can stick to the line about the invaluable economic benefits it is going to bring with any consistency. The onion-fuelled discourse about “human rights”, which was their first resort, is also their last.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    "It’s interesting that no fan of the invasion can stick to the line about the invaluable economic benefits it is going to bring with any consistency."

    Oh, you get a lot of that in the public debate in Germany as well...there's a lot of talk how the current immigration wave is actually a boon for Germany and how it will solve the country's demographic problem (instead of worsening it...which is far more likely in my opinion)...though such high hopes have been dampened somewhat since it has emerged that a significant part of the asylum seekers (20% according to some estimates) are illiterate and few can be classed as skilled workers.
    Merkel btw once said something about trained laboratory chemists among the Africans landing in Lampedusa...that's how deluded the woman is.
    , @eah
    no fan of the invasion can stick to the line about the invaluable economic benefits

    Actually, some are:

    Deutschlands Asyl-Chef freut sich über Flüchtlinge

    Der neue Präsident des Bundesamts für Migration und Flüchtlinge, Frank-Jürgen Weise, hat der Behauptung widersprochen, die Asylkrise sei die größte Belastung in der Geschichte der Bundesrepublik. „Das sehe ich nicht so“, sagte Weise...Vielmehr sehe er den momentanen Massenandrang an Asylsuchenden positiv, denn diese seien zu 70 Prozent erwerbsfähig, lobte Weise, der auch Chef der Bundesagentur für Arbeit ist.

    Aber:

    Erst kürzlich hatte die Bundesagentur für Arbeit jedoch wegen der Asylkrise vor einem starken Anstieg der Sozialhilfeempfänger-Zahlen gewarnt. 81 Prozent der Asylbewerber seien ohne berufliche Qualifikation, hieß es in einem internen Papier,...

    Sorry, no appetite for xlation today.
  4. @5371
    It's interesting that no fan of the invasion can stick to the line about the invaluable economic benefits it is going to bring with any consistency. The onion-fuelled discourse about "human rights", which was their first resort, is also their last.

    “It’s interesting that no fan of the invasion can stick to the line about the invaluable economic benefits it is going to bring with any consistency.”

    Oh, you get a lot of that in the public debate in Germany as well…there’s a lot of talk how the current immigration wave is actually a boon for Germany and how it will solve the country’s demographic problem (instead of worsening it…which is far more likely in my opinion)…though such high hopes have been dampened somewhat since it has emerged that a significant part of the asylum seekers (20% according to some estimates) are illiterate and few can be classed as skilled workers.
    Merkel btw once said something about trained laboratory chemists among the Africans landing in Lampedusa…that’s how deluded the woman is.

  5. Germany invade the world?

    — Afghanistan. Yes, Germany played a support role in Kunduz province.

    — Iraq. Nope.

    — Libya. Nope.

    Germany supply arms to countries wracked by civil war?

    — Syria. Volume of German armaments exports to Syria in 1st half of 2015: 152 thousand euros. Compare to German armaments exports to Saudi (177 million euros), Israel (391 million euros), or the UK (1.152 billion euros).

    — Libya. Zero.

    — Yemen. Zero.

    Source (PDF)

    • Replies: @jimmyriddle
    German bases (Ramstein etc) were heavily used the the US forces for all those operations.
    , @Anonymous
    You do realize that a big reason for the war is Syria has to do with pipelines don't you? Germany, along with Turkey, Isreal, Saudi Arabia, the US, and the rest of Europe wants a pipeline that goes through Syria.

    Assad was not willing to play ball so he had to go.

    Europe, including Germany, does not to need to have military in Syria to be complicit in wrecking that country. Just remember that next time you heat your house. Your surrounded by foreigners because Germany was too weak to play nice with Russia and as a result your next best option for gas was a pipeline that cut through Syria.

    The problem is that most Europeans are too ignorant to see the truth, instead falling for whatever narrative the mainstream media wants to push.
    , @Anonymous, @RadicalCenter
    Ausgezeichnet, Stubborn. Good for you, and good for Germany for not getting further embroiled in our unnecessary non-defensive wars.

    Now I'd like to see Germany demand the removal of U.S. military bases, the return of Germany's gold reserves, and the removal of Turkey from NATO (at the least). Yeah, I won't hold my breath....

    I love my country (America) and have great fondness for the homeland of my paternal ancestors (Germany), but I fear that the U.S. government is a destructive influence on the German people just as it is to us.
  6. @Stubborn in Germany
    Germany invade the world?

    -- Afghanistan. Yes, Germany played a support role in Kunduz province.

    -- Iraq. Nope.

    -- Libya. Nope.

    Germany supply arms to countries wracked by civil war?

    -- Syria. Volume of German armaments exports to Syria in 1st half of 2015: 152 thousand euros. Compare to German armaments exports to Saudi (177 million euros), Israel (391 million euros), or the UK (1.152 billion euros).

    -- Libya. Zero.

    -- Yemen. Zero.

    Source (PDF)

    German bases (Ramstein etc) were heavily used the the US forces for all those operations.

    • Replies: @SFG
    So that's why their last album was so heavy?
  7. @jimmyriddle
    German bases (Ramstein etc) were heavily used the the US forces for all those operations.

    So that’s why their last album was so heavy?

  8. Except the current German government doesn’t seem all that friendly to the German armament industry.

  9. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Stubborn in Germany
    Germany invade the world?

    -- Afghanistan. Yes, Germany played a support role in Kunduz province.

    -- Iraq. Nope.

    -- Libya. Nope.

    Germany supply arms to countries wracked by civil war?

    -- Syria. Volume of German armaments exports to Syria in 1st half of 2015: 152 thousand euros. Compare to German armaments exports to Saudi (177 million euros), Israel (391 million euros), or the UK (1.152 billion euros).

    -- Libya. Zero.

    -- Yemen. Zero.

    Source (PDF)

    You do realize that a big reason for the war is Syria has to do with pipelines don’t you? Germany, along with Turkey, Isreal, Saudi Arabia, the US, and the rest of Europe wants a pipeline that goes through Syria.

    Assad was not willing to play ball so he had to go.

    Europe, including Germany, does not to need to have military in Syria to be complicit in wrecking that country. Just remember that next time you heat your house. Your surrounded by foreigners because Germany was too weak to play nice with Russia and as a result your next best option for gas was a pipeline that cut through Syria.

    The problem is that most Europeans are too ignorant to see the truth, instead falling for whatever narrative the mainstream media wants to push.

    • Replies: @Stubborn in Germany
    Thank you for trotting out your personal pet theory. We all have one, of course.

    My own is that "Arab Spring" is mainly the creation of Qatar and its Al-Jazeera television network, trying to push through hardline Islam (Muslim Brotherhood style) in countries where it is not yet regnant.

    Perhaps not even so much for reasons of ideology but because Qatar is stinking rich and the Emir enjoys flexing his muscles. This sets up a semi-friendly rivalry with Saudi Arabia, who are not supporting MB but salafist outfits. Unfortunately for Saudi, the salafists lack the tight, Nazi-like organization culture of the MB, so they are continually coming up short.

    Everybody else was content with the status quo of Bashir Assad in power. They are merely reacting to the havoc wreaked by Qatar and Saudi. From Iran to Russia to Israel and the U.S., they all are just playing catch-up, with the possible exception of Turkey, which may have been apprised of Qatar's plans early on. The rise of Islamic State is an unforeseen consequence; Turkey has been trying to turn it to its advantage as part of its attempt to keep the lid on Kurdish independence. Lately, Turkey has begun to appreciate the utility of war refugees and economic migrants as a weapon of mass immigration.

    There is no shortage of pipelines. We are living in an age of energy glut. Producers need consumers more than the other way around.
    , @Anonymous
    Bullshit. It is bigger and more costly than oil. It's been a long time in the making. Clean Break, Leeden Doctrine, et al., all called for the destroying of Iraq, Syria, and Iran for starters. Libya, and Eqypt were smaller targets in the neocon list. As Pat Buchanan describes the Ledeen Doctrine:

    Rejecting stability as “an unworthy American mission,” [Michael] Ledeen goes on to define America’s authentic “historic mission”:

    Creative destruction is our middle name, both within our society and abroad. We tear down the old order every day, from business to science, literature, art, architecture, and cinema to politics and the law. Our enemies have always hated this whirlwind of energy and creativity which menaces their traditions (whatever they may be) and shames them for their inability to keep pace. … [W]e must destroy them to advance our historic mission.
     
    Germany has been America's bitch since 1945 and since then has been one large U.S. military base of operations to attack other countries.
  10. @Anonymous
    You do realize that a big reason for the war is Syria has to do with pipelines don't you? Germany, along with Turkey, Isreal, Saudi Arabia, the US, and the rest of Europe wants a pipeline that goes through Syria.

    Assad was not willing to play ball so he had to go.

    Europe, including Germany, does not to need to have military in Syria to be complicit in wrecking that country. Just remember that next time you heat your house. Your surrounded by foreigners because Germany was too weak to play nice with Russia and as a result your next best option for gas was a pipeline that cut through Syria.

    The problem is that most Europeans are too ignorant to see the truth, instead falling for whatever narrative the mainstream media wants to push.

    Thank you for trotting out your personal pet theory. We all have one, of course.

    My own is that “Arab Spring” is mainly the creation of Qatar and its Al-Jazeera television network, trying to push through hardline Islam (Muslim Brotherhood style) in countries where it is not yet regnant.

    Perhaps not even so much for reasons of ideology but because Qatar is stinking rich and the Emir enjoys flexing his muscles. This sets up a semi-friendly rivalry with Saudi Arabia, who are not supporting MB but salafist outfits. Unfortunately for Saudi, the salafists lack the tight, Nazi-like organization culture of the MB, so they are continually coming up short.

    Everybody else was content with the status quo of Bashir Assad in power. They are merely reacting to the havoc wreaked by Qatar and Saudi. From Iran to Russia to Israel and the U.S., they all are just playing catch-up, with the possible exception of Turkey, which may have been apprised of Qatar’s plans early on. The rise of Islamic State is an unforeseen consequence; Turkey has been trying to turn it to its advantage as part of its attempt to keep the lid on Kurdish independence. Lately, Turkey has begun to appreciate the utility of war refugees and economic migrants as a weapon of mass immigration.

    There is no shortage of pipelines. We are living in an age of energy glut. Producers need consumers more than the other way around.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Ughhhh Right. It was Qatar all along lol.

    Your right, we all have our theories and Qatar is complicit in the damage done in Syria. But Germany has its own role and its own interests to play out in Syria too.

    That Europe and Germany are reliant on Russian gas is not a new story. It is well known, as is the capitulation to America Germans did in order to side with America against Russia. Just read Pepe Escobar and his pipelinestan pieces to educate yourself. Because I am sorry, but there are no alternatives to the pipelines except for theoretical ones that cut right through Syria!


    Comforting yourself in the AL Jazeera radical Islam angle let's you and other Germans off the hook morally because so many of you are too timid to confront the truth.
  11. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    You do realize that a big reason for the war is Syria has to do with pipelines don't you? Germany, along with Turkey, Isreal, Saudi Arabia, the US, and the rest of Europe wants a pipeline that goes through Syria.

    Assad was not willing to play ball so he had to go.

    Europe, including Germany, does not to need to have military in Syria to be complicit in wrecking that country. Just remember that next time you heat your house. Your surrounded by foreigners because Germany was too weak to play nice with Russia and as a result your next best option for gas was a pipeline that cut through Syria.

    The problem is that most Europeans are too ignorant to see the truth, instead falling for whatever narrative the mainstream media wants to push.

    Bullshit. It is bigger and more costly than oil. It’s been a long time in the making. Clean Break, Leeden Doctrine, et al., all called for the destroying of Iraq, Syria, and Iran for starters. Libya, and Eqypt were smaller targets in the neocon list. As Pat Buchanan describes the Ledeen Doctrine:

    Rejecting stability as “an unworthy American mission,” [Michael] Ledeen goes on to define America’s authentic “historic mission”:

    Creative destruction is our middle name, both within our society and abroad. We tear down the old order every day, from business to science, literature, art, architecture, and cinema to politics and the law. Our enemies have always hated this whirlwind of energy and creativity which menaces their traditions (whatever they may be) and shames them for their inability to keep pace. … [W]e must destroy them to advance our historic mission.

    Germany has been America’s bitch since 1945 and since then has been one large U.S. military base of operations to attack other countries.

  12. @Stubborn in Germany
    Germany invade the world?

    -- Afghanistan. Yes, Germany played a support role in Kunduz province.

    -- Iraq. Nope.

    -- Libya. Nope.

    Germany supply arms to countries wracked by civil war?

    -- Syria. Volume of German armaments exports to Syria in 1st half of 2015: 152 thousand euros. Compare to German armaments exports to Saudi (177 million euros), Israel (391 million euros), or the UK (1.152 billion euros).

    -- Libya. Zero.

    -- Yemen. Zero.

    Source (PDF)
    • Replies: @Stubborn in Germany
    Want to explain how that Reuters news item supports the cartoon depicted at the top?
  13. Invade the world / Invite the World is only true for Western countries. The Gulf Arabs invaded many parts of the world but they sure as hell don’t allow outsiders to become citizens and certainly not non-Sunni .

    Saudi has been spending tens of billions of petro-dollars exporting their Wahhabi ideology but they will never allow the countless Wahhabi Africans and Asians to settle in Saudi.

    Over the centures a few Haj pilgrims settled in Saudi such that there is a small minority of non-Gulf Arab Saudis but a) they have no power and b) they identify as Arab and are Sunnis. So really they are not an existential threat to the locals.

  14. Is the man in the cartoon supposed to be a German rescuing an abandoned brown baby? None of the ‘fugees are dressed like that.

  15. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Stubborn in Germany
    Thank you for trotting out your personal pet theory. We all have one, of course.

    My own is that "Arab Spring" is mainly the creation of Qatar and its Al-Jazeera television network, trying to push through hardline Islam (Muslim Brotherhood style) in countries where it is not yet regnant.

    Perhaps not even so much for reasons of ideology but because Qatar is stinking rich and the Emir enjoys flexing his muscles. This sets up a semi-friendly rivalry with Saudi Arabia, who are not supporting MB but salafist outfits. Unfortunately for Saudi, the salafists lack the tight, Nazi-like organization culture of the MB, so they are continually coming up short.

    Everybody else was content with the status quo of Bashir Assad in power. They are merely reacting to the havoc wreaked by Qatar and Saudi. From Iran to Russia to Israel and the U.S., they all are just playing catch-up, with the possible exception of Turkey, which may have been apprised of Qatar's plans early on. The rise of Islamic State is an unforeseen consequence; Turkey has been trying to turn it to its advantage as part of its attempt to keep the lid on Kurdish independence. Lately, Turkey has begun to appreciate the utility of war refugees and economic migrants as a weapon of mass immigration.

    There is no shortage of pipelines. We are living in an age of energy glut. Producers need consumers more than the other way around.

    Ughhhh Right. It was Qatar all along lol.

    Your right, we all have our theories and Qatar is complicit in the damage done in Syria. But Germany has its own role and its own interests to play out in Syria too.

    That Europe and Germany are reliant on Russian gas is not a new story. It is well known, as is the capitulation to America Germans did in order to side with America against Russia. Just read Pepe Escobar and his pipelinestan pieces to educate yourself. Because I am sorry, but there are no alternatives to the pipelines except for theoretical ones that cut right through Syria!

    Comforting yourself in the AL Jazeera radical Islam angle let’s you and other Germans off the hook morally because so many of you are too timid to confront the truth.

    • Replies: @Stubborn in Germany

    That Europe and Germany are reliant on Russian gas is not a new story
     
    If Germany were not reliant on Russian gas then Germany would not be buying, after all, this is business! But you missed my point that Russia needs German gas buyers more than the other way around. To replace Germany as a gas customer with China would require years of infrastructure investments. Germany's gas reserves are enough to last her one year, enough time to make alternative arrangements with some pain.

    Merkel is a lousy chancellor but she did one thing right, which is to ensure that Ukraine will never join NATO. Russia has legitimate security interests, I just wish Putin would throw the separatists in Donetsk and Lugansk under the bus more quickly so that we can get Ukraine out of the way. Crimea river but that ship has sailed, time to acknowledge reality. Need to emphasize common interests with Russia to the maximum extent that's realistic. A President Trump would be the best thing that could happen to Western-Russian relations.
  16. @Anonymous

    Want to explain how that Reuters news item supports the cartoon depicted at the top?

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Want to explain how that Reuters news item supports the cartoon depicted at the top?
     
    Germany exports arms/tanks to jihadi-supporting regime who is backing the jihad in Syria which started the massive refugee crisis.
  17. @Anonymous
    Ughhhh Right. It was Qatar all along lol.

    Your right, we all have our theories and Qatar is complicit in the damage done in Syria. But Germany has its own role and its own interests to play out in Syria too.

    That Europe and Germany are reliant on Russian gas is not a new story. It is well known, as is the capitulation to America Germans did in order to side with America against Russia. Just read Pepe Escobar and his pipelinestan pieces to educate yourself. Because I am sorry, but there are no alternatives to the pipelines except for theoretical ones that cut right through Syria!


    Comforting yourself in the AL Jazeera radical Islam angle let's you and other Germans off the hook morally because so many of you are too timid to confront the truth.

    That Europe and Germany are reliant on Russian gas is not a new story

    If Germany were not reliant on Russian gas then Germany would not be buying, after all, this is business! But you missed my point that Russia needs German gas buyers more than the other way around. To replace Germany as a gas customer with China would require years of infrastructure investments. Germany’s gas reserves are enough to last her one year, enough time to make alternative arrangements with some pain.

    Merkel is a lousy chancellor but she did one thing right, which is to ensure that Ukraine will never join NATO. Russia has legitimate security interests, I just wish Putin would throw the separatists in Donetsk and Lugansk under the bus more quickly so that we can get Ukraine out of the way. Crimea river but that ship has sailed, time to acknowledge reality. Need to emphasize common interests with Russia to the maximum extent that’s realistic. A President Trump would be the best thing that could happen to Western-Russian relations.

    • Replies: @5371
    [I just wish Putin would throw the separatists in Donetsk and Lugansk under the bus more quickly ]

    That bus of yours will never come.
    , @RadicalCenter
    Hi again, Stubborn: I'd say that we (wir Brueder, Americans and Germans) should stop threatening and condemning Russia over Crimea not because it's a fait accompli, but because there was nothing wrong with Russia's annexation of Crimea anyway.

    The population of Crimea consist heavily of ethnic Russians who speak predominantly or only Russian both at home and in public -- including large numbers of retired Russian naval personnel and their descendants -- and it's very plausible that they wanted to join (re-join) Russia rather than remain part of Ukraine.

    That's not to say that Putin wouldn't take territory where the people do NOT want to join Russia, if Russia had the strength to do so without terrible retaliation by the US et al., but that isn't what happened in Crimea.
  18. @Stubborn in Germany

    That Europe and Germany are reliant on Russian gas is not a new story
     
    If Germany were not reliant on Russian gas then Germany would not be buying, after all, this is business! But you missed my point that Russia needs German gas buyers more than the other way around. To replace Germany as a gas customer with China would require years of infrastructure investments. Germany's gas reserves are enough to last her one year, enough time to make alternative arrangements with some pain.

    Merkel is a lousy chancellor but she did one thing right, which is to ensure that Ukraine will never join NATO. Russia has legitimate security interests, I just wish Putin would throw the separatists in Donetsk and Lugansk under the bus more quickly so that we can get Ukraine out of the way. Crimea river but that ship has sailed, time to acknowledge reality. Need to emphasize common interests with Russia to the maximum extent that's realistic. A President Trump would be the best thing that could happen to Western-Russian relations.

    [I just wish Putin would throw the separatists in Donetsk and Lugansk under the bus more quickly ]

    That bus of yours will never come.

  19. @Stubborn in Germany
    Want to explain how that Reuters news item supports the cartoon depicted at the top?

    Want to explain how that Reuters news item supports the cartoon depicted at the top?

    Germany exports arms/tanks to jihadi-supporting regime who is backing the jihad in Syria which started the massive refugee crisis.

    • Replies: @keypusher
    From the article:

    The newspaper Sueddeutsche Zeitung reported on Friday that four German Leopard 2 tanks and three howitzers had been shipped from Germany, bound for Qatar.

    So, four tanks and three guns. That all you got?
  20. @Anonymous

    Want to explain how that Reuters news item supports the cartoon depicted at the top?
     
    Germany exports arms/tanks to jihadi-supporting regime who is backing the jihad in Syria which started the massive refugee crisis.

    From the article:

    The newspaper Sueddeutsche Zeitung reported on Friday that four German Leopard 2 tanks and three howitzers had been shipped from Germany, bound for Qatar.

    So, four tanks and three guns. That all you got?

  21. @Stubborn in Germany
    Germany invade the world?

    -- Afghanistan. Yes, Germany played a support role in Kunduz province.

    -- Iraq. Nope.

    -- Libya. Nope.

    Germany supply arms to countries wracked by civil war?

    -- Syria. Volume of German armaments exports to Syria in 1st half of 2015: 152 thousand euros. Compare to German armaments exports to Saudi (177 million euros), Israel (391 million euros), or the UK (1.152 billion euros).

    -- Libya. Zero.

    -- Yemen. Zero.

    Source (PDF)

    Ausgezeichnet, Stubborn. Good for you, and good for Germany for not getting further embroiled in our unnecessary non-defensive wars.

    Now I’d like to see Germany demand the removal of U.S. military bases, the return of Germany’s gold reserves, and the removal of Turkey from NATO (at the least). Yeah, I won’t hold my breath….

    I love my country (America) and have great fondness for the homeland of my paternal ancestors (Germany), but I fear that the U.S. government is a destructive influence on the German people just as it is to us.

  22. they are simply looking for a excuse why Europe and especially has a burden. It is a bit like those who say: Europe deserves African immigration because without european agar subvention Africa would be as successful as countries from other regions

  23. @Stubborn in Germany

    That Europe and Germany are reliant on Russian gas is not a new story
     
    If Germany were not reliant on Russian gas then Germany would not be buying, after all, this is business! But you missed my point that Russia needs German gas buyers more than the other way around. To replace Germany as a gas customer with China would require years of infrastructure investments. Germany's gas reserves are enough to last her one year, enough time to make alternative arrangements with some pain.

    Merkel is a lousy chancellor but she did one thing right, which is to ensure that Ukraine will never join NATO. Russia has legitimate security interests, I just wish Putin would throw the separatists in Donetsk and Lugansk under the bus more quickly so that we can get Ukraine out of the way. Crimea river but that ship has sailed, time to acknowledge reality. Need to emphasize common interests with Russia to the maximum extent that's realistic. A President Trump would be the best thing that could happen to Western-Russian relations.

    Hi again, Stubborn: I’d say that we (wir Brueder, Americans and Germans) should stop threatening and condemning Russia over Crimea not because it’s a fait accompli, but because there was nothing wrong with Russia’s annexation of Crimea anyway.

    The population of Crimea consist heavily of ethnic Russians who speak predominantly or only Russian both at home and in public — including large numbers of retired Russian naval personnel and their descendants — and it’s very plausible that they wanted to join (re-join) Russia rather than remain part of Ukraine.

    That’s not to say that Putin wouldn’t take territory where the people do NOT want to join Russia, if Russia had the strength to do so without terrible retaliation by the US et al., but that isn’t what happened in Crimea.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Hi again, Stubborn: I’d say that we (wir Brueder, Americans and Germans) should stop threatening and condemning Russia over Crimea not because it’s a fait accompli, but because there was nothing wrong with Russia’s annexation of Crimea anyway.

    The population of Crimea consist heavily of ethnic Russians who speak predominantly or only Russian both at home and in public
     
    So you would be okay with the "Reconquista" of the Spanish-speaking areas of the American Southwest by Mexico.
  24. @RadicalCenter
    Hi again, Stubborn: I'd say that we (wir Brueder, Americans and Germans) should stop threatening and condemning Russia over Crimea not because it's a fait accompli, but because there was nothing wrong with Russia's annexation of Crimea anyway.

    The population of Crimea consist heavily of ethnic Russians who speak predominantly or only Russian both at home and in public -- including large numbers of retired Russian naval personnel and their descendants -- and it's very plausible that they wanted to join (re-join) Russia rather than remain part of Ukraine.

    That's not to say that Putin wouldn't take territory where the people do NOT want to join Russia, if Russia had the strength to do so without terrible retaliation by the US et al., but that isn't what happened in Crimea.

    Hi again, Stubborn: I’d say that we (wir Brueder, Americans and Germans) should stop threatening and condemning Russia over Crimea not because it’s a fait accompli, but because there was nothing wrong with Russia’s annexation of Crimea anyway.

    The population of Crimea consist heavily of ethnic Russians who speak predominantly or only Russian both at home and in public

    So you would be okay with the “Reconquista” of the Spanish-speaking areas of the American Southwest by Mexico.

  25. @German_reader
    I suppose you're referring to Sailer's "invade the world/invite the world"...but I'm afraid the similiarity is only superficial. The newspaper is probably intending rather something along the lines of "Germany sells so many weapons in the world and is thereby responsible for the wars these weapons are used in, we have a moral duty to take in all those refugees - it's our fault they're suffering! We're the guilty ones!". It's a sentiment very common among the "refugees welcome" crowd, not least among those of a religious bent. It's total nonsense in my opinion, and a deeply flawed way of understanding what's going on...crucially important data like demographic trends is totally ignored in that view.

    “Germany sells so many weapons in the world and is thereby responsible for the wars these weapons are used in, we have a moral duty to take in all those refugees – it’s our fault they’re suffering! We’re the guilty ones!”

    Yep, that’s it, most probably. Just the usual German guilt trip.

    This cartoon by the same artist seems to confirm it:
    http://de.toonpool.com/cartoons/Menschlichkeit_257556
    Text: “Humaneness! Humaneness! We have to put that aside for now, else we never get the refugee problem solved.”
    Which is, for what I understand, criticizing efforts to more realistically cope with the situation instead of just doing the “right thing”.

    BTW, the cartoon Karlin posted can be found there, too:
    http://de.toonpool.com/cartoons/Waffenexport_257336
    No need to copy the pic from an actual newspaper.

  26. Leftists think towelheads are subhuman and lack agency. Thus, whoever sells them arms is responsible for the towelheads’ buying and using them.

    But leftists are too timid to confront the truth.

  27. I’m sorry, did I impart a genuine principle to leftists? My mistake.

    What I meant to say was:

    Leftists think all non-Europeans are subhuman and lack agency. Thus, when a towelhead buys arms from a European and kills people with them, the European is responsible, in the leftist’s “mind.”

    But non-Europeans aren’t responsible, if they sell arms to non-Europeans; that’s YT’s fault, too.

    But leftists are too timid to confront the truth.

  28. Karlin, you’re seeing things, buddy. The obvious purport of this cartoon is that Germany has itself to blame for the ‘refugee’ (barf) onslaught, since the arms it exports are responsible for these poor darlings’ plight, whose only recourse then is to make the trek to Germany. Whether the scumsucker left actually believes this or not (surely some of them do, delusional beyond comprehension as many of them are), it sure makes for great copy.

    In contrast, neocon invade/inviters would categorically deny any connection between the former and the latter. Instead, they’d claim that both are independently beneficial. Of course the third world needs to be invaded and have shiny new beacon-of-democracy regimes installed. Of course Europe and America benefit immensely from the endless, non-discriminatory importation of third world masses. Either policy alone would be wonderful, but pursuing both simultaneously is something truly special. (And anyway, the only possible alternative to all this is Adolf Hitler, so we’d be stuck with it even if it wasn’t so awesome. But it is awesome, so relax.)

  29. @5371
    It's interesting that no fan of the invasion can stick to the line about the invaluable economic benefits it is going to bring with any consistency. The onion-fuelled discourse about "human rights", which was their first resort, is also their last.

    no fan of the invasion can stick to the line about the invaluable economic benefits

    Actually, some are:

    Deutschlands Asyl-Chef freut sich über Flüchtlinge

    Der neue Präsident des Bundesamts für Migration und Flüchtlinge, Frank-Jürgen Weise, hat der Behauptung widersprochen, die Asylkrise sei die größte Belastung in der Geschichte der Bundesrepublik. „Das sehe ich nicht so“, sagte Weise…Vielmehr sehe er den momentanen Massenandrang an Asylsuchenden positiv, denn diese seien zu 70 Prozent erwerbsfähig, lobte Weise, der auch Chef der Bundesagentur für Arbeit ist.

    Aber:

    Erst kürzlich hatte die Bundesagentur für Arbeit jedoch wegen der Asylkrise vor einem starken Anstieg der Sozialhilfeempfänger-Zahlen gewarnt. 81 Prozent der Asylbewerber seien ohne berufliche Qualifikation, hieß es in einem internen Papier,…

    Sorry, no appetite for xlation today.

    • Replies: @5371
    [„Das ist eine gute Bereicherung unserer Arbeitswelt und unserer Gesellschaft, daß da nicht überall ältere graue Herren durch die Gegend laufen und langsam mit dem Auto auf der Autobahn rumfahren, sondern das wird eine lebendige Gesellschaft.“]

    Not really about the economy, is it? Just vibrancy good, speed good, old grey-haired gentlemen bad.
  30. @eah
    no fan of the invasion can stick to the line about the invaluable economic benefits

    Actually, some are:

    Deutschlands Asyl-Chef freut sich über Flüchtlinge

    Der neue Präsident des Bundesamts für Migration und Flüchtlinge, Frank-Jürgen Weise, hat der Behauptung widersprochen, die Asylkrise sei die größte Belastung in der Geschichte der Bundesrepublik. „Das sehe ich nicht so“, sagte Weise...Vielmehr sehe er den momentanen Massenandrang an Asylsuchenden positiv, denn diese seien zu 70 Prozent erwerbsfähig, lobte Weise, der auch Chef der Bundesagentur für Arbeit ist.

    Aber:

    Erst kürzlich hatte die Bundesagentur für Arbeit jedoch wegen der Asylkrise vor einem starken Anstieg der Sozialhilfeempfänger-Zahlen gewarnt. 81 Prozent der Asylbewerber seien ohne berufliche Qualifikation, hieß es in einem internen Papier,...

    Sorry, no appetite for xlation today.

    [„Das ist eine gute Bereicherung unserer Arbeitswelt und unserer Gesellschaft, daß da nicht überall ältere graue Herren durch die Gegend laufen und langsam mit dem Auto auf der Autobahn rumfahren, sondern das wird eine lebendige Gesellschaft.“]

    Not really about the economy, is it? Just vibrancy good, speed good, old grey-haired gentlemen bad.

    • Replies: @eah
    There was that bit, yes. Also this:

    denn diese seien zu 70 Prozent erwerbsfähig

    70% are ready for employment in Germany. It would be harder for him to get away with saying what you highlighted without also saying the above -- harder, but not impossible.
  31. @5371
    [„Das ist eine gute Bereicherung unserer Arbeitswelt und unserer Gesellschaft, daß da nicht überall ältere graue Herren durch die Gegend laufen und langsam mit dem Auto auf der Autobahn rumfahren, sondern das wird eine lebendige Gesellschaft.“]

    Not really about the economy, is it? Just vibrancy good, speed good, old grey-haired gentlemen bad.

    There was that bit, yes. Also this:

    denn diese seien zu 70 Prozent erwerbsfähig

    70% are ready for employment in Germany. It would be harder for him to get away with saying what you highlighted without also saying the above — harder, but not impossible.

  32. There have been some realistic articles in german media. Here’s one by Intelligence researcher Heiner Rindermann:

    Key points:
    – The people are what make a country great/shit
    – Arabs/africans do very badly on IQ/education achievement tests
    – past migrants from these regions show that they wont reach native levels
    – migrants will blame their failure on discrimination
    – societies try to cover this up by lowering standards and by doing away with objective performance tests
    – diversity is related to state fragility, income inequality and low trust

    german: http://www.focus.de/finanzen/news/wir-verteidigen-europas-werte-ingenieure-auf-realschulniveau_id_5016680.html

    google translate: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en-US&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.focus.de%2Ffinanzen%2Fnews%2Fwir-verteidigen-europas-werte-ingenieure-auf-realschulniveau_id_5016680.html

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