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Here is how emigre journalist Bershidsky (who likes mass immigration to Europe but not to Saudi Arabia) sees the end of history (Russia edition):

Whenever and however Putin may leave, any successor will need to revise Russia’s geopolitical choice. Putin has taken two decades to show that he doesn’t have a reverse gear. A new leader will be free from this constraint, and Russia may find itself considering its three choices again.

Europe has a lot to gain if it has the courage. Drawing Russia in could solve some of the European Union’s fundamental problems. With its massive natural-gas reserves, Russia could propel Europe faster toward hard-to-reach environmental goals. With its untapped economic potential and need for immigrants to develop its vast territory, it could be a big help in resolving migration issues. With its recent investment in agile, modern military power — yes, in the Avangard, too — it could provide a backbone for a joint European military.

So Russia’s fate is to be a mineral resource depot, dumping ground for Third Worlders, and cannon fodder for the retirement home and taxpayer funded mansion for Somalis better known as the EU.

All the while bleeding out its human capital to Germany and Scandinavia, as is happening in the more integrated European peripheries today.

Yeah, I don’t think that’s gonna happen.

 
• Category: Ideology • Tags: Europe, Immigration, Russia 
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  1. I think it’s worth mentioning that Bershidsky is a Jew, a liberal Russian Jew, who lives in Germany. And this is the kind of country he wants.

    This is not what anyone in Russia wants. This is not who we are! 🙂

    • Replies: @Mikhail

    I think it’s worth mentioning that Bershidsky is a Jew, a liberal Russian Jew, who lives in Germany. And this is the kind of country he wants.

    This is not what anyone in Russia wants. This is not who we are!
     
    My disagreements with Bershidsky have nothing to do with his ethno-religious background and current residence.

    He's referenced as some kind of worthy alternative by the US establishment likes of Timothy Frye:

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/10/11/slanting-against-russia-us-establishment-pastime.html

    Excerpt -

    Columbia University's Timothy Frye recently wrote a defense of the status of Russian studies programs in the US - particularly in the area of political science. Frye was responding to a contrary claim that has been stated in the years since the Soviet Union's demise. (Leonid Bershidsky isn't the only one who has expressed that view.)
     
    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/07/17/dnc-kiev-regime-collusion-isnt-americas-best-interests.html

    Excerpt -

    Without much of a counter, Leonid Bershidsky's Johnson's Russia List-promoted Bloomberg article of July 13, presents the image of Russia as a US adversary, thereby (essentially) excusing Kiev regime-Democratic National Committee (DNC) collusion against Donald Trump during the 2016 US presidential election - unlike the not as well substantiated claim of a Donald Trump-Russian government cooperation against Hillary Clinton in the same period.

    Russia and the US aren't at war with each other and the Kiev regime isn't formally allied with the US in the same manner as NATO member countries. It's extremely shortsighted to readily accept Kiev regime anti-Russian propaganda, designed to seek a greater deterioration of US-Russian relations - with the idea of Ukraine as a valuable strategic bulwark against Russia.

    The obsessive Russia bashing downplays the Kiev regime's problematical kleptocracy, in territory where a noticeable nationalist violence has suppressed pro-Russian perspectives. With this in mind, it's wrongheaded to readily oppose an important global player as Russia, by (pretty much) exclusively highlighting Russian wrongs (real and hyped), while downplaying Kiev regime negatives.

    Some of the Kiev regime spin is outlandishly bogus, as evidenced by Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko's lie that Jews in Crimea haven't been able to observe their faith since Crimea's reunification with Russia. Relative to the stretched out MSNBC-CNN attempt to find a Trump-Russia collusion, one can reasonably surmise a possible DNC-Kiev regime false flag effort at pinning a Russian government hack of the DNC. There're valid reasons to second guess the claimed Russian government hack of the DNC, that note the DNC utilized CrowdStrike cybersecurity source and its ties to the anti-Russian leaning/pro-Kiev regime Atlantic Council.
     
    , @DFH
    Weird how the Jewish vision for Russia is exactly the same as the Jewish vision for the USA/Canada/Australia/Britain/France etc.
    , @byrresheim
    This is not who we are in Germany either.

    At least some of us.

    However, it seems as if nobody were asking us. Democracy, you know ...
  2. Let`s be somewhat lenient, he has to live with that surname.

    • Replies: @Mikhail

    Let`s be somewhat lenient, he has to live with that surname.
     
    The arguably greater shame is how the likes of him and some others get propped over some other sources, which (in a number of instances) offer keener insight.
  3. @Felix Keverich
    I think it's worth mentioning that Bershidsky is a Jew, a liberal Russian Jew, who lives in Germany. And this is the kind of country he wants.

    This is not what anyone in Russia wants. This is not who we are! :)

    I think it’s worth mentioning that Bershidsky is a Jew, a liberal Russian Jew, who lives in Germany. And this is the kind of country he wants.

    This is not what anyone in Russia wants. This is not who we are!

    My disagreements with Bershidsky have nothing to do with his ethno-religious background and current residence.

    He’s referenced as some kind of worthy alternative by the US establishment likes of Timothy Frye:

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/10/11/slanting-against-russia-us-establishment-pastime.html

    Excerpt –

    Columbia University’s Timothy Frye recently wrote a defense of the status of Russian studies programs in the US – particularly in the area of political science. Frye was responding to a contrary claim that has been stated in the years since the Soviet Union’s demise. (Leonid Bershidsky isn’t the only one who has expressed that view.)

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/07/17/dnc-kiev-regime-collusion-isnt-americas-best-interests.html

    Excerpt –

    Without much of a counter, Leonid Bershidsky’s Johnson’s Russia List-promoted Bloomberg article of July 13, presents the image of Russia as a US adversary, thereby (essentially) excusing Kiev regime-Democratic National Committee (DNC) collusion against Donald Trump during the 2016 US presidential election – unlike the not as well substantiated claim of a Donald Trump-Russian government cooperation against Hillary Clinton in the same period.

    Russia and the US aren’t at war with each other and the Kiev regime isn’t formally allied with the US in the same manner as NATO member countries. It’s extremely shortsighted to readily accept Kiev regime anti-Russian propaganda, designed to seek a greater deterioration of US-Russian relations – with the idea of Ukraine as a valuable strategic bulwark against Russia.

    The obsessive Russia bashing downplays the Kiev regime’s problematical kleptocracy, in territory where a noticeable nationalist violence has suppressed pro-Russian perspectives. With this in mind, it’s wrongheaded to readily oppose an important global player as Russia, by (pretty much) exclusively highlighting Russian wrongs (real and hyped), while downplaying Kiev regime negatives.

    Some of the Kiev regime spin is outlandishly bogus, as evidenced by Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko’s lie that Jews in Crimea haven’t been able to observe their faith since Crimea’s reunification with Russia. Relative to the stretched out MSNBC-CNN attempt to find a Trump-Russia collusion, one can reasonably surmise a possible DNC-Kiev regime false flag effort at pinning a Russian government hack of the DNC. There’re valid reasons to second guess the claimed Russian government hack of the DNC, that note the DNC utilized CrowdStrike cybersecurity source and its ties to the anti-Russian leaning/pro-Kiev regime Atlantic Council.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich

    My disagreements with Bershidsky have nothing to do with his ethno-religious background and current residence.
     
    I don't believe that debate about the future of Russia should be open to just about anybody. No, Jewish emigrees like Bershidsky do not get a say.

    @ DFH


    Weird how the Jewish vision for Russia is exactly the same as the Jewish vision for the USA/Canada/Australia/Britain/France etc.
     
    Exactly! Jews will be Jews.
  4. @WHAT
    Let`s be somewhat lenient, he has to live with that surname.

    Let`s be somewhat lenient, he has to live with that surname.

    The arguably greater shame is how the likes of him and some others get propped over some other sources, which (in a number of instances) offer keener insight.

  5. (Neo)liberalism and globalism are mental disorders.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    No, the people who advocate neo-liberalism and globalism are perfectly rational actors. They're paid by billionaires to do this and it obviously harmonises with their own general world-view.
    , @AnonFromTN

    (Neo)liberalism and globalism are mental disorders.
     
    Can’t agree more. But with one correction: it greatly enriches ~1% of the “sufferers”, who rob the other 99% blind. So, the 99% are clearly sick, while that 1% are likely perfectly healthy scum.
  6. anon[330] • Disclaimer says:

    As a upside for a Friendly Europe Bershidsky I think paints a fair picture.
    It’s not going to be Russia that rejects it first, it is more something Europeans can’t see.

    Of course Russia’s future is with China not Europe. The whole thing is about potential being missed, not the future.

    On environmental goals, Gas and oil is just a delaying tactic. Either solar continues getting cheaper or Fusion becomes viable, but the earth falls apart if we don’t get a cheap energy source in 50 years (cheap enough to reverse previous abuse). If you have oil or gas under your land right now – make damned sure you sell it in next 30 years. Better still sell your oil companies (like Saudi and Russia try to do). After that it might be worthless – and you’ll look like Venezuela.

    • Replies: @Swarthy Greek
    Oil has numerous applications beyond energy: plastics for instance.
    , @Thorfinnsson
    Photovoltaic cells are semiconductors and are thus subject to the same diminishing returns we're now observing in integrated circuits.

    They're also geographically limited, and even if room temperature superconductors are invented (dubious) transmission will still cost money (capex, depreciation).

    There's thus a ceiling on solar marketshare. We may even be past the rational ceiling in many markets owing to the Green religion. There is no rational reason to put solar panels in Germany for instance, yet it is one of the world's largest solar producers. Japan, another place where solar panels have no place and ought to be forbidden by law, is now one of the fastest growing markets. This is driven by atomophobia.

    Solar power being intermittent, it must also be paired with other forms of energy generation (generally natural gas) and/or storage (hydro most efficient).

    Nuclear fusion has been 10 years away now for the past 50 years.

    Oil demand will plausibly peak by mid-century or perhaps earlier (Royal Dutch Shell says 2026 for instance), but barring a relaxation in the worldwide plague of hysterical atomophobia natural gas demand is likely to grow for many years to come.

    Populations in developed countries may start falling, or the countries themselves may start physically deteriorating owing to race replacement by biologically inferior invaders. In that event energy demand could actually fall, rather than simply peaking as has historically been the case in Europe and Japan.

    Venezuela looks like Venezuela because it's governed by orangutans. Russia without its energy exports would be poorer and have to further devalue the Rouble, but would actually be fine. If Saudi Arabia persists on its current course however it is going bankrupt and potentially facing civil war.

    As for the climate change issue, well, I have no idea how it will shake out. Reversing "previous damage" would appear to require not simply a gigantic reduction in emissions, but also sequestration. Presumably the most effective way to do that would be a worldwide change in agricultural practices to encourage the buildup of top soil.

    , @songbird
    There's a lot of untapped hydropower in North America. In some places they built dams during the Great Depression and then pulled out the turbines a few years later. It's probably not enough power to heat homes (I'm sure it falls off in winter) but I think it is enough to have an industrial base, public transport, and for everyday power, like lights.

    Of course, the globalists are trying hard to increase the pop 10x and Africanize it so it won't be capable of maintaining the infrastructure required to utilize such power.
  7. @anon
    As a upside for a Friendly Europe Bershidsky I think paints a fair picture.
    It's not going to be Russia that rejects it first, it is more something Europeans can't see.

    Of course Russia's future is with China not Europe. The whole thing is about potential being missed, not the future.

    On environmental goals, Gas and oil is just a delaying tactic. Either solar continues getting cheaper or Fusion becomes viable, but the earth falls apart if we don't get a cheap energy source in 50 years (cheap enough to reverse previous abuse). If you have oil or gas under your land right now - make damned sure you sell it in next 30 years. Better still sell your oil companies (like Saudi and Russia try to do). After that it might be worthless - and you'll look like Venezuela.

    Oil has numerous applications beyond energy: plastics for instance.

  8. @aedib
    (Neo)liberalism and globalism are mental disorders.

    No, the people who advocate neo-liberalism and globalism are perfectly rational actors. They’re paid by billionaires to do this and it obviously harmonises with their own general world-view.

  9. …it could be a big help in resolving migration issues

    Western strategy is to re-populate Russia with new people, it would assist in so many of their other goals. Russia, as it has been, with its stubborn streak and unpredictability, is the single biggest threat to the West – the second world that has to be controlled otherwise it undermines everything. They pore over maps and obsessively murmur Cato’s Carthage delenda est. Can you blame them? Russia geographic luck has also been its misfortune.

    The resources and space, water and land, that is what West has always wanted from Russia, a very obvious geographic idea. They have tried to invade and get it by force (Poland, Turkey, Sweden, Germany, France, UK…), or they tried pretty words, all the same. They will keep on trying either prevailing – and destroying the buffer that keeps Europe viable – or ending it all.

    This is a psychosis and it has repeatedly generated waves of hatred against Russia in the West, it is incurable. Putin seems to understand that any concessions to people who hate you only makes them more aggressive, and they will still hate – they would switch from threat rhetoric to mocking the weakness. That’s what Bershitsky means by ‘no reverse gear’.

    • Replies: @Anon

    Russia is the single biggest threat to the West
     
    Imagine being so dumb to believe this. China is the biggest threat, and mostly to the US as it seeks to prevent another hegemonic peer competitor. Russia is mostly just a sidekick to China these days, a declining great power - but a great power for now nonetheless.

    A lot of the hot air floating around on Russia is just cynical propaganda to increase military spending and to rationalise NATO's continued existence. As always with propaganda efforts, the mid-level managers and the low-level grunts are too stupid to see through the BS they are spreading. They mostly just care about the paycheck to do the Empire's bidding anyway.

    The truth is, NATO truly is obsolete. Russia isn't going to invade Europe and Germans are correct in dissing Trump's retarded rants about muh military spending. NATO is an organisation in search of a continued purpose to existing and if they have to invent one, then the tired ol' Russia Bear will do. NATO is also obsolete to deal with China, because China doesn't threaten Europe. The US is mostly obsessed with China for imperial reasons. That's why you see a lot more pushback on banning Huawei in Europe, with Germans going back and forth and the Czechs being cagey about it. It's time for Europe to cut the cord to ZOG.

  10. @Felix Keverich
    I think it's worth mentioning that Bershidsky is a Jew, a liberal Russian Jew, who lives in Germany. And this is the kind of country he wants.

    This is not what anyone in Russia wants. This is not who we are! :)

    Weird how the Jewish vision for Russia is exactly the same as the Jewish vision for the USA/Canada/Australia/Britain/France etc.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  11. @Mikhail

    I think it’s worth mentioning that Bershidsky is a Jew, a liberal Russian Jew, who lives in Germany. And this is the kind of country he wants.

    This is not what anyone in Russia wants. This is not who we are!
     
    My disagreements with Bershidsky have nothing to do with his ethno-religious background and current residence.

    He's referenced as some kind of worthy alternative by the US establishment likes of Timothy Frye:

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/10/11/slanting-against-russia-us-establishment-pastime.html

    Excerpt -

    Columbia University's Timothy Frye recently wrote a defense of the status of Russian studies programs in the US - particularly in the area of political science. Frye was responding to a contrary claim that has been stated in the years since the Soviet Union's demise. (Leonid Bershidsky isn't the only one who has expressed that view.)
     
    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/07/17/dnc-kiev-regime-collusion-isnt-americas-best-interests.html

    Excerpt -

    Without much of a counter, Leonid Bershidsky's Johnson's Russia List-promoted Bloomberg article of July 13, presents the image of Russia as a US adversary, thereby (essentially) excusing Kiev regime-Democratic National Committee (DNC) collusion against Donald Trump during the 2016 US presidential election - unlike the not as well substantiated claim of a Donald Trump-Russian government cooperation against Hillary Clinton in the same period.

    Russia and the US aren't at war with each other and the Kiev regime isn't formally allied with the US in the same manner as NATO member countries. It's extremely shortsighted to readily accept Kiev regime anti-Russian propaganda, designed to seek a greater deterioration of US-Russian relations - with the idea of Ukraine as a valuable strategic bulwark against Russia.

    The obsessive Russia bashing downplays the Kiev regime's problematical kleptocracy, in territory where a noticeable nationalist violence has suppressed pro-Russian perspectives. With this in mind, it's wrongheaded to readily oppose an important global player as Russia, by (pretty much) exclusively highlighting Russian wrongs (real and hyped), while downplaying Kiev regime negatives.

    Some of the Kiev regime spin is outlandishly bogus, as evidenced by Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko's lie that Jews in Crimea haven't been able to observe their faith since Crimea's reunification with Russia. Relative to the stretched out MSNBC-CNN attempt to find a Trump-Russia collusion, one can reasonably surmise a possible DNC-Kiev regime false flag effort at pinning a Russian government hack of the DNC. There're valid reasons to second guess the claimed Russian government hack of the DNC, that note the DNC utilized CrowdStrike cybersecurity source and its ties to the anti-Russian leaning/pro-Kiev regime Atlantic Council.
     

    My disagreements with Bershidsky have nothing to do with his ethno-religious background and current residence.

    I don’t believe that debate about the future of Russia should be open to just about anybody. No, Jewish emigrees like Bershidsky do not get a say.

    @ DFH

    Weird how the Jewish vision for Russia is exactly the same as the Jewish vision for the USA/Canada/Australia/Britain/France etc.

    Exactly! Jews will be Jews.

    • Replies: @Mikhail

    I don’t believe that debate about the future of Russia should be open to just about anybody. No, Jewish emigrees like Bershidsky do not get a say.
     

    Exactly! Jews will be Jews.
     
    Tongue in cheek, change one word to these:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ADgCeYJMN4

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qkuu0Lwb5EM

    Not a fan of Ioffe, Gessen, Albats et al, while giving some credence to the Jews on the brain term, as they (Jews) are by no means monolithic.

    Writing about the future of Russia and having a say in it aren't by default the same.
  12. I wonder if any linguist has ever tried to track tell-tale political phrases back to 500 years ago or more. There’s something so incredibly eerie about “the end of history” and its many variants like “the right side of history”, “the moral arc of the universe.” It is like DNA speaking and having a grammar.

    I feel that Aztecs must have said it when they were building pyramids of hearts or heads.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    I think someone would have to do a study of Kabbalah to figure out the fascination with chaos and the "end of history". The Aleynu prayer seems, to me at least, to be a key to this tikkun olam and end of history stuff. None of the geniuses, who still use echo brackets, seem to mention it though.

    https://www.bc.edu/content/dam/files/research_sites/cjl/texts/cjrelations/resources/sourcebook/Aleynu.htm
    , @Thorfinnsson
    This obviously stems from Christianity.

    I assume such phrases first entered the political lexicon after the development of Postmillennial forms of Protestantism, which suggests the 17th century.

    The belief in Christ withered away, but the belief in building a "perfect" world here on Earth remained as we see from the modern day descendants of the Puritans.

    , @Philip Owen
    Read the Book of Revalations. Then join Cromwell's New Model Army.
  13. Bershidsky’s screed is directed at Europe, not Russia. This is his message to Europe, in a nutshell: be nicer to Russia after Evil Putler is gone and it will help you solve many of you problems.

    It’s not a bad message. But naturally, the Russians will wonder what’s in it for them.

    • Replies: @Beckow

    ...message to Europe: be nicer
     
    Europe is generally 'nice', the manners are not the issue. But Europe has unwittingly showed that when pushed it will instinctively go back to its historical anti-Russian attitudes. That makes future impossible to negotiate, that door is shut for a generation. I suspect that Putin is a mild version of what will come after him.

    Yes, West will blame the excesses like the meddling hysteria, Saakasvili nutcase, Ukrainian quasi-nazis or de facto supporting ISIS, on 'those were the times' and try to hide them in a memory hole as they try to forget Kosovo. But will it work? People can be fooled again and again, but they usually know when someone hates them - and this went from geo-politics to hatred quite rapidly without the grown-ups in the West stepping in. And that tends to end any discussion.

  14. @inertial
    Bershidsky's screed is directed at Europe, not Russia. This is his message to Europe, in a nutshell: be nicer to Russia after Evil Putler is gone and it will help you solve many of you problems.

    It's not a bad message. But naturally, the Russians will wonder what's in it for them.

    …message to Europe: be nicer

    Europe is generally ‘nice’, the manners are not the issue. But Europe has unwittingly showed that when pushed it will instinctively go back to its historical anti-Russian attitudes. That makes future impossible to negotiate, that door is shut for a generation. I suspect that Putin is a mild version of what will come after him.

    Yes, West will blame the excesses like the meddling hysteria, Saakasvili nutcase, Ukrainian quasi-nazis or de facto supporting ISIS, on ‘those were the times‘ and try to hide them in a memory hole as they try to forget Kosovo. But will it work? People can be fooled again and again, but they usually know when someone hates them – and this went from geo-politics to hatred quite rapidly without the grown-ups in the West stepping in. And that tends to end any discussion.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN

    I suspect that Putin is a mild version of what will come after him.
     
    You are right. The West will rue the day when Putin goes. It’s too late, anyway: most Russians are well aware of European hypocrisy. Worse yet, they are aware of European impotence.
    , @inertial
    You are looking at it from the perspective of our cozy Russophile bubble (or community if you like.) From that perspective, sure, what Bershidsky said is ridiculous for any number of reasons.

    But Bershidsky's call for Russia-Europe cooperation is addressed at the European mainstream. Same mainstream that's currently obsessed about Russia engineering Brexit, Catalonia independence, French protests, etc.

    Bershidsky presents his case in the mildest possible way. It goes without saying that 100% of the present difficulties in the European-Russian relationship are due to perniciousness of Evil Putler. But after Putler is gone perhaps it makes sense to go a little easier on Russia? It's going to be good for your, dear European Establishment, dearest SJW obsessions. Environment! Refugees!

    Note how Bershidsky says that Europe will need courage to reach out to Russia. This shows how radical his proposal is from the mainstream POV. He is the one who needs courage. I am sure that even as we speak, someone out there is calling him Kremlin stooge for his proposal.
  15. Total primary energy consumption in Europe was roughly the same figure in 2016 as it was in 1988.

    1988: 76,677 quadrillion BTU

    2016: 79,661 quadrillion BTU

    Natural gas share of that (24%) increased but reached its current level by the end of the 20th century.

    See for yourself from the US government’s excellent Energy Information Agency: https://www.eia.gov/beta/international/data/browser/

    Nordstream 2 was planned on the assumption that natural gas consumption in Europe would be 50% higher today than it is.

    While Russia is a low-cost producer ideally situated to supply Europe with natural gas, Europe doesn’t need more energy.

    An increase in exports to Europe would require gaining marketshare and/or a European shift in its energy mix.

    The former could happen owing to declining production in the North Sea. There will however be competition from the Gulf, LNG (irrational but when did that ever stop anyone?), energy storage, and coal. There is also a possibility of fracking taking off in Europe.

    The latter could happen if Europe takes its religious fervor regarding climate change seriously. But the Euros aren’t serious. Otherwise the Germans wouldn’t have shut down their nuclear power sector nor would their brown coal production figures be crushing post-reunification records.

    Bershidsky doesn’t know what he’s talking about (surprise).

    That said, Bershidsky has a point on the migration issue. Russia’s strategic rocket forces could play a powerful role in resolving the issue.

    • Replies: @Mitleser

    Nordstream 2 was planned on the assumption that natural gas consumption in Europe would be 50% higher today than it is.

    While Russia is a low-cost producer ideally situated to supply Europe with natural gas, Europe doesn’t need more energy.
     
    But it does need more pipeline capacity. The point of NS is to ensure that gas exports via gas pipelines won't be stopped by problems in Poland/Belarus/the Ukraine.

    But the Euros aren’t serious. Otherwise the Germans wouldn’t have shut down their nuclear power sector nor would their brown coal production figures be crushing post-reunification records.
     
    They are serious enough to sacrifice the German car industry for that, see reduction of CO2 emissions in the next decade.
    And what happened in this year in Hambach Forest shows that once nuclear power is gone, coal will be next.

    https://twitter.com/FortuneMagazine/status/1076179260707090432
  16. @songbird
    I wonder if any linguist has ever tried to track tell-tale political phrases back to 500 years ago or more. There's something so incredibly eerie about "the end of history" and its many variants like "the right side of history", "the moral arc of the universe." It is like DNA speaking and having a grammar.

    I feel that Aztecs must have said it when they were building pyramids of hearts or heads.

    I think someone would have to do a study of Kabbalah to figure out the fascination with chaos and the “end of history”. The Aleynu prayer seems, to me at least, to be a key to this tikkun olam and end of history stuff. None of the geniuses, who still use echo brackets, seem to mention it though.

    https://www.bc.edu/content/dam/files/research_sites/cjl/texts/cjrelations/resources/sourcebook/Aleynu.htm

  17. Anon[748] • Disclaimer says:
    @Beckow

    ...it could be a big help in resolving migration issues
     
    Western strategy is to re-populate Russia with new people, it would assist in so many of their other goals. Russia, as it has been, with its stubborn streak and unpredictability, is the single biggest threat to the West - the second world that has to be controlled otherwise it undermines everything. They pore over maps and obsessively murmur Cato's Carthage delenda est. Can you blame them? Russia geographic luck has also been its misfortune.

    The resources and space, water and land, that is what West has always wanted from Russia, a very obvious geographic idea. They have tried to invade and get it by force (Poland, Turkey, Sweden, Germany, France, UK...), or they tried pretty words, all the same. They will keep on trying either prevailing - and destroying the buffer that keeps Europe viable - or ending it all.

    This is a psychosis and it has repeatedly generated waves of hatred against Russia in the West, it is incurable. Putin seems to understand that any concessions to people who hate you only makes them more aggressive, and they will still hate - they would switch from threat rhetoric to mocking the weakness. That's what Bershitsky means by 'no reverse gear'.

    Russia is the single biggest threat to the West

    Imagine being so dumb to believe this. China is the biggest threat, and mostly to the US as it seeks to prevent another hegemonic peer competitor. Russia is mostly just a sidekick to China these days, a declining great power – but a great power for now nonetheless.

    A lot of the hot air floating around on Russia is just cynical propaganda to increase military spending and to rationalise NATO’s continued existence. As always with propaganda efforts, the mid-level managers and the low-level grunts are too stupid to see through the BS they are spreading. They mostly just care about the paycheck to do the Empire’s bidding anyway.

    The truth is, NATO truly is obsolete. Russia isn’t going to invade Europe and Germans are correct in dissing Trump’s retarded rants about muh military spending. NATO is an organisation in search of a continued purpose to existing and if they have to invent one, then the tired ol’ Russia Bear will do. NATO is also obsolete to deal with China, because China doesn’t threaten Europe. The US is mostly obsessed with China for imperial reasons. That’s why you see a lot more pushback on banning Huawei in Europe, with Germans going back and forth and the Czechs being cagey about it. It’s time for Europe to cut the cord to ZOG.

    • Replies: @Beckow

    ...Imagine being so dumb to believe this. China is the biggest threat
     
    As they see it, China is a separate civilisation, but not a threat to Western dominance. China is just out there, it can be poor or rich, it can be everywhere or behind its wall. It is not a threat to the Western narrative, not yet. It is similar with Islam, although West has underestimated it and tried to use it.

    There is an infatuation with China and the other Third World cultures among the Western elite that comes out of ennui. But Russia is different: similar enough and perceived as something that could be had, something that could be taken over. Carthage delenda est, the old men in think tanks whisper to each other. They are driven by regrets, so many times, they came so close, and then 'mistakes were made'.

    Without Nato, the 'Atlanticist' control over Europe and the West in general would collapse. So trying to protect Nato, to give it a role, is a consequence of this primary goal of having a 'Washington-London' centric world. Otherwise the center of gravity would shift to the east (and I don't mean China), it would shift to Germany-Central Europe-Mediterranean-Russia...back to where civilization center of gravity was before 1945, and even more so previously. But without Russia, or with a militarized border with Russia that cannot happen. This is a rational self-interest, but that doesn't mean that it won't backfire.

    , @Sean

    The truth is, NATO truly is obsolete. Russia isn’t going to invade Europe and Germans are correct in dissing Trump’s retarded rants about muh military spending.
     
    The Germans have perfected a helpless kitten act, but will find that America is slowly but surely withdrawing from Europe to face China. If Germany persists they will draw Russia into aggressive moves westward, just as surely a Russia's weakness drew Nato into Ukraine and Georgia.

    Stalin planned to ship Germans off to the Soviet Union and use them to teach Russians work discipline (ie having a drink after the work is done, as opposed to drinking instead of doing the work). Perhaps Germans are the missing ingredient for Putin.

    https://youtu.be/tOfhYQ1SwLk?t=247

  18. @anon
    As a upside for a Friendly Europe Bershidsky I think paints a fair picture.
    It's not going to be Russia that rejects it first, it is more something Europeans can't see.

    Of course Russia's future is with China not Europe. The whole thing is about potential being missed, not the future.

    On environmental goals, Gas and oil is just a delaying tactic. Either solar continues getting cheaper or Fusion becomes viable, but the earth falls apart if we don't get a cheap energy source in 50 years (cheap enough to reverse previous abuse). If you have oil or gas under your land right now - make damned sure you sell it in next 30 years. Better still sell your oil companies (like Saudi and Russia try to do). After that it might be worthless - and you'll look like Venezuela.

    Photovoltaic cells are semiconductors and are thus subject to the same diminishing returns we’re now observing in integrated circuits.

    They’re also geographically limited, and even if room temperature superconductors are invented (dubious) transmission will still cost money (capex, depreciation).

    There’s thus a ceiling on solar marketshare. We may even be past the rational ceiling in many markets owing to the Green religion. There is no rational reason to put solar panels in Germany for instance, yet it is one of the world’s largest solar producers. Japan, another place where solar panels have no place and ought to be forbidden by law, is now one of the fastest growing markets. This is driven by atomophobia.

    Solar power being intermittent, it must also be paired with other forms of energy generation (generally natural gas) and/or storage (hydro most efficient).

    Nuclear fusion has been 10 years away now for the past 50 years.

    Oil demand will plausibly peak by mid-century or perhaps earlier (Royal Dutch Shell says 2026 for instance), but barring a relaxation in the worldwide plague of hysterical atomophobia natural gas demand is likely to grow for many years to come.

    Populations in developed countries may start falling, or the countries themselves may start physically deteriorating owing to race replacement by biologically inferior invaders. In that event energy demand could actually fall, rather than simply peaking as has historically been the case in Europe and Japan.

    Venezuela looks like Venezuela because it’s governed by orangutans. Russia without its energy exports would be poorer and have to further devalue the Rouble, but would actually be fine. If Saudi Arabia persists on its current course however it is going bankrupt and potentially facing civil war.

    As for the climate change issue, well, I have no idea how it will shake out. Reversing “previous damage” would appear to require not simply a gigantic reduction in emissions, but also sequestration. Presumably the most effective way to do that would be a worldwide change in agricultural practices to encourage the buildup of top soil.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Tell
    TF

    I value your comments.

    Let me therefore ask you 4 questions.

    1. Do you believe that the average temperature on earth has risen over the past 40 years in sharp contrast with respect to say the previous 40 years?

    2. If the answer is yes, do you think the primary cause is human activity?

    3. If the answer is yes to 1 do you think that the set of measure propounded by the COP2x types can reverse the process?

    4. Independently — if the worse predictions made by the GIEC and similar bodies were to occur, would this necessarily be a bad thing?

    I answer as follows;
    1. Yes
    2, can’t decide — but leaning No
    3. A definitive No
    4. No. The climate has been warmer before in historical times and it was fine and dandy.

    What do YOU think?

    , @Philip Owen
    Agree

    Another factor is that solar panels must be near the load to amke sense. The cost of stepping up the voltage to distribution levels is just about doable. Stepping up to transmission voltages is not an option.
    , @foolisholdman

    Photovoltaic cells are semiconductors and are thus subject to the same diminishing returns we’re now observing in integrated circuits.
     
    I do not understand this statement. What 'diminishing returns' are we getting from integrated circuits??

    They’re also geographically limited, and even if room temperature superconductors are invented (dubious) transmission will still cost money (capex, depreciation).
     
    Huge solar power assemblies in western China are transmitting power via 1.1million-volt lines to eastern China. So much for the impossibility of upping the voltage. Yes, of course transmission is not 100% efficient, it never will be, even with room-temperature superconductors, if and when they are invented.

    There’s thus a ceiling on solar marketshare. We may even be past the rational ceiling in many markets owing to the Green religion. There is no rational reason to put solar panels in Germany for instance, yet it is one of the world’s largest solar producers.
     
    Getting power from the sun is an attractive idea, particularly if, as is often the case, the power can be used locally, by e.g. an isolated house, an exhibition hall, a street lamp, a road sign There is an enormous amound of research being done on storage batteries and big advances have already been made in that field. With the push for electric cars, it is pretty certain that more advances will be made in the field of batteries in the near future.

    Japan, another place where solar panels have no place and ought to be forbidden by law, is now one of the fastest growing markets. This is driven by atomophobia.
     
    And who can blame them for that? When solar power plants are destroyed by an earthquake or a tsunami it is much easier to clean up the mess than Fukushima has been and still is.

    Solar power being intermittent, it must also be paired with other forms of energy generation (generally natural gas) and/or storage (hydro most efficient).
     
    No longer true, see above. In any case, there are other sources of energy. It is not as though the advocates of alternative sources of energy insist on using only one, or that grids do not exist. Come to that fossil-powered and atom-powered power stations have down time too.
    , @Frederic Bastiat

    Nuclear fusion has been 10 years away now for the past 50 years.
     
    As I understand it, we are in the middle of surpassing break even (energy input = energy output). The ITER project in France, to be finished in the 20ties, is going to surpass break even, i.e. produce more energy than consume, but not enough to be economically viable.

    Early overoptimism in the 50ties was supposedely a result of oversimplified theoretical considerations (due to limited computing power, among other reasons), which lead to an underestimation of heat losses caused by turbulences in the plasma, which result in turn from the high temperature gradient.

    The question is now mainly about economic viability. Fussion-fission hybrid reactors are also an underexplored possibility that could be a bridge to a fussion based future.
  19. @anon
    As a upside for a Friendly Europe Bershidsky I think paints a fair picture.
    It's not going to be Russia that rejects it first, it is more something Europeans can't see.

    Of course Russia's future is with China not Europe. The whole thing is about potential being missed, not the future.

    On environmental goals, Gas and oil is just a delaying tactic. Either solar continues getting cheaper or Fusion becomes viable, but the earth falls apart if we don't get a cheap energy source in 50 years (cheap enough to reverse previous abuse). If you have oil or gas under your land right now - make damned sure you sell it in next 30 years. Better still sell your oil companies (like Saudi and Russia try to do). After that it might be worthless - and you'll look like Venezuela.

    There’s a lot of untapped hydropower in North America. In some places they built dams during the Great Depression and then pulled out the turbines a few years later. It’s probably not enough power to heat homes (I’m sure it falls off in winter) but I think it is enough to have an industrial base, public transport, and for everyday power, like lights.

    Of course, the globalists are trying hard to increase the pop 10x and Africanize it so it won’t be capable of maintaining the infrastructure required to utilize such power.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    It's irrational to use electricity for heat owing to the inefficiency of heat engines. The most efficient combined cycle plants reach an efficiency level of around 60%. This is why electric space heaters for instance ought to be forbidden by law.

    If eliminating fossil fuels from heat is the goal, then the appropriate solutions are nuclear combined heat and power (CHP) plants as well as nuclear district heating reactors (China has a pilot reactor in operation).

    Atomophobes who protest the construction of these should be imprisoned in nuclear "waste" storage facilities.
  20. @songbird
    I wonder if any linguist has ever tried to track tell-tale political phrases back to 500 years ago or more. There's something so incredibly eerie about "the end of history" and its many variants like "the right side of history", "the moral arc of the universe." It is like DNA speaking and having a grammar.

    I feel that Aztecs must have said it when they were building pyramids of hearts or heads.

    This obviously stems from Christianity.

    I assume such phrases first entered the political lexicon after the development of Postmillennial forms of Protestantism, which suggests the 17th century.

    The belief in Christ withered away, but the belief in building a “perfect” world here on Earth remained as we see from the modern day descendants of the Puritans.

  21. @aedib
    (Neo)liberalism and globalism are mental disorders.

    (Neo)liberalism and globalism are mental disorders.

    Can’t agree more. But with one correction: it greatly enriches ~1% of the “sufferers”, who rob the other 99% blind. So, the 99% are clearly sick, while that 1% are likely perfectly healthy scum.

  22. @songbird
    There's a lot of untapped hydropower in North America. In some places they built dams during the Great Depression and then pulled out the turbines a few years later. It's probably not enough power to heat homes (I'm sure it falls off in winter) but I think it is enough to have an industrial base, public transport, and for everyday power, like lights.

    Of course, the globalists are trying hard to increase the pop 10x and Africanize it so it won't be capable of maintaining the infrastructure required to utilize such power.

    It’s irrational to use electricity for heat owing to the inefficiency of heat engines. The most efficient combined cycle plants reach an efficiency level of around 60%. This is why electric space heaters for instance ought to be forbidden by law.

    If eliminating fossil fuels from heat is the goal, then the appropriate solutions are nuclear combined heat and power (CHP) plants as well as nuclear district heating reactors (China has a pilot reactor in operation).

    Atomophobes who protest the construction of these should be imprisoned in nuclear “waste” storage facilities.

    • Agree: songbird
  23. @Beckow

    ...message to Europe: be nicer
     
    Europe is generally 'nice', the manners are not the issue. But Europe has unwittingly showed that when pushed it will instinctively go back to its historical anti-Russian attitudes. That makes future impossible to negotiate, that door is shut for a generation. I suspect that Putin is a mild version of what will come after him.

    Yes, West will blame the excesses like the meddling hysteria, Saakasvili nutcase, Ukrainian quasi-nazis or de facto supporting ISIS, on 'those were the times' and try to hide them in a memory hole as they try to forget Kosovo. But will it work? People can be fooled again and again, but they usually know when someone hates them - and this went from geo-politics to hatred quite rapidly without the grown-ups in the West stepping in. And that tends to end any discussion.

    I suspect that Putin is a mild version of what will come after him.

    You are right. The West will rue the day when Putin goes. It’s too late, anyway: most Russians are well aware of European hypocrisy. Worse yet, they are aware of European impotence.

    • Replies: @aedib
    Are you sure? I would bet that the next president will be a Putin’s choice. May be Medvedev (or someone like him). I don’t see some real siloviky like Patrushev as next president. Anyway, the succession game is not open yet.
  24. need for immigrants

    Surprising that he says this since that would imply white people immigrating. He must know that Russia does not a have a booming youth demographic so it won’t mean hordes of Russians moving in, he is probably saying this so his support of pro third world immigration into Europe looks like its not really about making Europe non white.

  25. @Anon

    Russia is the single biggest threat to the West
     
    Imagine being so dumb to believe this. China is the biggest threat, and mostly to the US as it seeks to prevent another hegemonic peer competitor. Russia is mostly just a sidekick to China these days, a declining great power - but a great power for now nonetheless.

    A lot of the hot air floating around on Russia is just cynical propaganda to increase military spending and to rationalise NATO's continued existence. As always with propaganda efforts, the mid-level managers and the low-level grunts are too stupid to see through the BS they are spreading. They mostly just care about the paycheck to do the Empire's bidding anyway.

    The truth is, NATO truly is obsolete. Russia isn't going to invade Europe and Germans are correct in dissing Trump's retarded rants about muh military spending. NATO is an organisation in search of a continued purpose to existing and if they have to invent one, then the tired ol' Russia Bear will do. NATO is also obsolete to deal with China, because China doesn't threaten Europe. The US is mostly obsessed with China for imperial reasons. That's why you see a lot more pushback on banning Huawei in Europe, with Germans going back and forth and the Czechs being cagey about it. It's time for Europe to cut the cord to ZOG.

    …Imagine being so dumb to believe this. China is the biggest threat

    As they see it, China is a separate civilisation, but not a threat to Western dominance. China is just out there, it can be poor or rich, it can be everywhere or behind its wall. It is not a threat to the Western narrative, not yet. It is similar with Islam, although West has underestimated it and tried to use it.

    There is an infatuation with China and the other Third World cultures among the Western elite that comes out of ennui. But Russia is different: similar enough and perceived as something that could be had, something that could be taken over. Carthage delenda est, the old men in think tanks whisper to each other. They are driven by regrets, so many times, they came so close, and then ‘mistakes were made’.

    Without Nato, the ‘Atlanticist’ control over Europe and the West in general would collapse. So trying to protect Nato, to give it a role, is a consequence of this primary goal of having a ‘Washington-London’ centric world. Otherwise the center of gravity would shift to the east (and I don’t mean China), it would shift to Germany-Central Europe-Mediterranean-Russia…back to where civilization center of gravity was before 1945, and even more so previously. But without Russia, or with a militarized border with Russia that cannot happen. This is a rational self-interest, but that doesn’t mean that it won’t backfire.

  26. It is safe to assume that Russia must accept that the EU will become increasingly hostile with Russia. I say this because the elite of the EU tend to follow the ideology of the USA, as Western Europe becomes ever more non white it will become more strict with all sorts of SJW norms. The biggest violation of Russia is that it is mostly white, how can relations ever improve when Western Europe is no longer white and is adhering to the anti white ideology that will be much worser than it is now?

  27. Joining the EU was one of Mikhail Prokhorov’s famous presidential election ideas in 2012. There is nothing new with this proposal and it has been discussed many times.

    The advantage of joining the EU would be enormous transfer of wealth from EU to Russia, as a result of their “structural adjustment” program.

    And it is precisely for that reason, that EU would never accept Russia (for EU to fund Russia as it does Poland today, would bankrupt the EU).

    Disadvantage of joining EU – it would be easier not just for brain drain of Russia to Western Europe, but a mass migration of the younger section of the population. The demographic impact could be scary in some cities. There would be no cultural insulation either.

    As for third world immigrants. They would not settle in Russia (anymore than they do in Poland or Lithuania today) – but they might become interested in Russia to the extent they could get an EU passport which would allow them to later live in the immigrant-welfare paradises of Sweden/UK/Denmark/Netherlands/Germany, etc.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Of course, those parasites won’t settle in Russia: there are no freebies for them, and won’t be.

    I have no doubt that Russia won’t join the EU even if the EU would want it (which is very unlikely). Russia won’t cede its sovereignty to some cucks in Brussels. After the catastrophe of 1990-s nobody proposing this would ever get more than 10% vote in Russian elections (in 100% honest elections people like that won’t even get 5%). Russia is not an inconsequential third-rate country like those that joined the EU in the last 20-25 years, or like the hopeless losers who still want to join the EU expecting gifts from it (which won’t be forthcoming, as the EU has no resources even to sustain itself, let alone to waste on aspiring shitholes).

    Besides, by the time Russia and Europe move to a reasonably healthy relationship, there will be no EU. Some kind of economic cooperation with Germany is possible, unless Anglosphere succeeds in its never-ending scheming to make Russia and Germany clash, like they did twice in the twentieth century.
  28. With its untapped economic potential and need for immigrants to develop its vast territory, it could be a big help in resolving migration issues.

    I don’t think that Bershidsky says anything too controversial here? It’s plain enough for anybody to see that Russia’s own population growth will not suffice to develop its own vast European territory, much less the even vaster Siberian and Eastern ones. It would be interesting to see an accurate accounting of the breakup of new immigrants to the Far East and to Siberia. I suspect that the Chinese would be at the top of the list. White immigrants to these inhospitable lands in the past were mostly made up of Russians and Ukrainians, and a much smaller share of Polish prisoners of war. There doesn’t seem much today (or on the drawing board) to entice these sorts of European immigrants to help populate these more than vast lands. In fact, the only white European immigrants that you hear about moving to Russia today, are a motley group of starving ‘entrepreneurs’ and flamboyant tax evaders.

    • Replies: @German_reader

    I suspect that the Chinese would be at the top of the list.
     
    iirc AK has debunked the "Chinese are taking over Siberia" thesis several times in the past.
    And "help in resolving migration issues" sounds an awful lot like "Russia has a lot of space, it should take its fair share of the population surplus of the failed societies of the Mideast and subsaharan Africa". Not a good idea, not in the best interest of Russians.
    But anyway, as has already been pointed out, this will probably remain fantasy anyway...it does look likely that Putin's successor will be more nationalistic, not less (in retrospect the Putin era might well be seen as a lost chance for establishing good relations with Russia...certainly from a German perspective; at least Putin occasionally said nice things about Germany which nobody else does). I have to admit I find the sense of anti-European grievance and resentment expressed by some commenters here (admittedly mostly not Russians actually living in Russia) disturbing, this bodes ill for the future.
    , @melanf

    It would be interesting to see an accurate accounting of the breakup of new immigrants to the Far East and to Siberia. I suspect that the Chinese would be at the top of the list.
     
    Very funny

    Number of the persons who received Russian citizenship for the first half of 2018

    Ukraine 39582 people,
    Kazakhstan 21266 people,
    Armenia 12989 people,
    Uzbekistan 9879 people,
    Moldova 7759 people,
    Kyrgyzstan 4392 people,
    Georgia 1150 people,
    Belarus 2140 people,
    Vietnam 199 people,
    Israel 76 people,
    USA 53 people,
    China 34 people,
    India 24 people,
    , @DFH

    a much smaller share of Polish prisoners of war
     
    Do you have any more information about this? I thought that all of the Polish POWs were sent away after the start of Barbarossa.
    , @Thorfinnsson
    It's not so much controversial as it is stupid. We can cut Bershidsky some slack in that he's not the first person to have this stupid thought. After all, it was official Soviet policy.

    There's a lot of people who have the idea that because Russia's land mass is so vast, it must have vast economic potential. Pity that it's so thinly populated and thus can't develop.

    The reality is that most of it is useless tundra.
  29. @Mr. Hack

    With its untapped economic potential and need for immigrants to develop its vast territory, it could be a big help in resolving migration issues.
     
    I don't think that Bershidsky says anything too controversial here? It's plain enough for anybody to see that Russia's own population growth will not suffice to develop its own vast European territory, much less the even vaster Siberian and Eastern ones. It would be interesting to see an accurate accounting of the breakup of new immigrants to the Far East and to Siberia. I suspect that the Chinese would be at the top of the list. White immigrants to these inhospitable lands in the past were mostly made up of Russians and Ukrainians, and a much smaller share of Polish prisoners of war. There doesn't seem much today (or on the drawing board) to entice these sorts of European immigrants to help populate these more than vast lands. In fact, the only white European immigrants that you hear about moving to Russia today, are a motley group of starving 'entrepreneurs' and flamboyant tax evaders.

    I suspect that the Chinese would be at the top of the list.

    iirc AK has debunked the “Chinese are taking over Siberia” thesis several times in the past.
    And “help in resolving migration issues” sounds an awful lot like “Russia has a lot of space, it should take its fair share of the population surplus of the failed societies of the Mideast and subsaharan Africa”. Not a good idea, not in the best interest of Russians.
    But anyway, as has already been pointed out, this will probably remain fantasy anyway…it does look likely that Putin’s successor will be more nationalistic, not less (in retrospect the Putin era might well be seen as a lost chance for establishing good relations with Russia…certainly from a German perspective; at least Putin occasionally said nice things about Germany which nobody else does). I have to admit I find the sense of anti-European grievance and resentment expressed by some commenters here (admittedly mostly not Russians actually living in Russia) disturbing, this bodes ill for the future.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    No one can be more 'anti-European' than Europe's current crop of leaders.

    Who do you think is inviting all those third world bastards in?
    , @songbird
    I kind of like the idea of settling migrants in Russia - in a gulag archipelago in Siberia. Not permanently, but just long enough for word to get back.
    , @Adam
    You have a habit decrying 'anti-European' sentiment, but there is vastly more hatred of Russia and Russians in western Europe than the other way around. Even the nationalists in Germany tend to buy into "Russians are asiatic savages, Slava Ukraina".

    I'm a Germanophile personally but there's not much hope for truly good Germany-Russia relations unless your people change your attitude.
  30. @Mr. Hack

    With its untapped economic potential and need for immigrants to develop its vast territory, it could be a big help in resolving migration issues.
     
    I don't think that Bershidsky says anything too controversial here? It's plain enough for anybody to see that Russia's own population growth will not suffice to develop its own vast European territory, much less the even vaster Siberian and Eastern ones. It would be interesting to see an accurate accounting of the breakup of new immigrants to the Far East and to Siberia. I suspect that the Chinese would be at the top of the list. White immigrants to these inhospitable lands in the past were mostly made up of Russians and Ukrainians, and a much smaller share of Polish prisoners of war. There doesn't seem much today (or on the drawing board) to entice these sorts of European immigrants to help populate these more than vast lands. In fact, the only white European immigrants that you hear about moving to Russia today, are a motley group of starving 'entrepreneurs' and flamboyant tax evaders.

    It would be interesting to see an accurate accounting of the breakup of new immigrants to the Far East and to Siberia. I suspect that the Chinese would be at the top of the list.

    Very funny

    Number of the persons who received Russian citizenship for the first half of 2018

    Ukraine 39582 people,
    Kazakhstan 21266 people,
    Armenia 12989 people,
    Uzbekistan 9879 people,
    Moldova 7759 people,
    Kyrgyzstan 4392 people,
    Georgia 1150 people,
    Belarus 2140 people,
    Vietnam 199 people,
    Israel 76 people,
    USA 53 people,
    China 34 people,
    India 24 people,

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    I stated to the Russian Far East and to Siberia, not European Russia.
    , @AnonFromTN
    Interesting stats. Looks like the shittier the shithole, the more people from it want Russian citizenship. India breaks this rule, though. It should have been #2, right after Ukraine. I guess they move to formerly Great formerly Britain instead, as in Russia they won’t be able to rape white girls with impunity.
    , @aedib


    Ukraine 39582 people,
    Kazakhstan 21266 people,

     

    It would be interesting to know percentages of little Russians and big Russians for the first line and the percentage of white and nonwhite migrants for the second one.
    I would not be surprised if several hundred draft-dodgers from Western Ukraine are found between those 40k migrants from Ukraine.
  31. @Beckow

    ...message to Europe: be nicer
     
    Europe is generally 'nice', the manners are not the issue. But Europe has unwittingly showed that when pushed it will instinctively go back to its historical anti-Russian attitudes. That makes future impossible to negotiate, that door is shut for a generation. I suspect that Putin is a mild version of what will come after him.

    Yes, West will blame the excesses like the meddling hysteria, Saakasvili nutcase, Ukrainian quasi-nazis or de facto supporting ISIS, on 'those were the times' and try to hide them in a memory hole as they try to forget Kosovo. But will it work? People can be fooled again and again, but they usually know when someone hates them - and this went from geo-politics to hatred quite rapidly without the grown-ups in the West stepping in. And that tends to end any discussion.

    You are looking at it from the perspective of our cozy Russophile bubble (or community if you like.) From that perspective, sure, what Bershidsky said is ridiculous for any number of reasons.

    But Bershidsky’s call for Russia-Europe cooperation is addressed at the European mainstream. Same mainstream that’s currently obsessed about Russia engineering Brexit, Catalonia independence, French protests, etc.

    Bershidsky presents his case in the mildest possible way. It goes without saying that 100% of the present difficulties in the European-Russian relationship are due to perniciousness of Evil Putler. But after Putler is gone perhaps it makes sense to go a little easier on Russia? It’s going to be good for your, dear European Establishment, dearest SJW obsessions. Environment! Refugees!

    Note how Bershidsky says that Europe will need courage to reach out to Russia. This shows how radical his proposal is from the mainstream POV. He is the one who needs courage. I am sure that even as we speak, someone out there is calling him Kremlin stooge for his proposal.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Has Karlin included statistics showing who actually is leaving home and settling in the Russian Far East and Siberia? Also, a lot of settlers seem to be illegal and may not be included within any published statistical records.

    If Russia wants to keep pace with its more populous neighbors, it will need to import immigrants 'of color' Not too many German or French want to move to these parts (and do what, work in the forests and oil fields as drillers). I suspect that good paying engineering jobs are still going mostly to Russians and Ukrainians.

    , @Beckow

    ...mainstream that’s currently obsessed about Russia engineering Brexit, Catalonia independence, French protests, etc.
     
    That is true, unfortunately. But is is also an oxymoron: a rational mainstream in an advanced civilised society cannot be a mainstream and also believe in the kind of meddling nonsense that they are obsessed with. Nonsense is nonsense, and if the grown-ups in the West refuse to call it out, well, what kind of a civilisation is that?

    By taking it seriously and trying to meet it half-way - as Bershitsky tries - nothing gets done. It validates the nonsense. The meddling narrative is over-the-top, it is disconnected from real life, it cannot be accommodated. We have reached a true impasse.
    , @reiner Tor
    I’ve seen him called a Kremlin stooge in a Facebook comment thread.
  32. @inertial
    You are looking at it from the perspective of our cozy Russophile bubble (or community if you like.) From that perspective, sure, what Bershidsky said is ridiculous for any number of reasons.

    But Bershidsky's call for Russia-Europe cooperation is addressed at the European mainstream. Same mainstream that's currently obsessed about Russia engineering Brexit, Catalonia independence, French protests, etc.

    Bershidsky presents his case in the mildest possible way. It goes without saying that 100% of the present difficulties in the European-Russian relationship are due to perniciousness of Evil Putler. But after Putler is gone perhaps it makes sense to go a little easier on Russia? It's going to be good for your, dear European Establishment, dearest SJW obsessions. Environment! Refugees!

    Note how Bershidsky says that Europe will need courage to reach out to Russia. This shows how radical his proposal is from the mainstream POV. He is the one who needs courage. I am sure that even as we speak, someone out there is calling him Kremlin stooge for his proposal.

    Has Karlin included statistics showing who actually is leaving home and settling in the Russian Far East and Siberia? Also, a lot of settlers seem to be illegal and may not be included within any published statistical records.

    If Russia wants to keep pace with its more populous neighbors, it will need to import immigrants ‘of color’ Not too many German or French want to move to these parts (and do what, work in the forests and oil fields as drillers). I suspect that good paying engineering jobs are still going mostly to Russians and Ukrainians.

    • Replies: @Swarthy Greek
    The Chinese north east is losing population fast as the northern Han migrate towards the coast. Chinese salaries are almost the same as Russian salaries in dollar terms. Why would a northern Han migrate illegally to Siberia when he could find work easily at higher wages in the much more developed areas of China?Who would rather live in Kamchatsky Petropavlosk or Khabarovsk than Shenzen or HK? China also has a very low TFR, lower than Russia so your chinese takeover of Siberia theory is complete horseshit.
  33. @Dmitry
    Joining the EU was one of Mikhail Prokhorov's famous presidential election ideas in 2012. There is nothing new with this proposal and it has been discussed many times.

    The advantage of joining the EU would be enormous transfer of wealth from EU to Russia, as a result of their "structural adjustment" program.

    And it is precisely for that reason, that EU would never accept Russia (for EU to fund Russia as it does Poland today, would bankrupt the EU).

    Disadvantage of joining EU - it would be easier not just for brain drain of Russia to Western Europe, but a mass migration of the younger section of the population. The demographic impact could be scary in some cities. There would be no cultural insulation either.

    As for third world immigrants. They would not settle in Russia (anymore than they do in Poland or Lithuania today) - but they might become interested in Russia to the extent they could get an EU passport which would allow them to later live in the immigrant-welfare paradises of Sweden/UK/Denmark/Netherlands/Germany, etc.

    Of course, those parasites won’t settle in Russia: there are no freebies for them, and won’t be.

    I have no doubt that Russia won’t join the EU even if the EU would want it (which is very unlikely). Russia won’t cede its sovereignty to some cucks in Brussels. After the catastrophe of 1990-s nobody proposing this would ever get more than 10% vote in Russian elections (in 100% honest elections people like that won’t even get 5%). Russia is not an inconsequential third-rate country like those that joined the EU in the last 20-25 years, or like the hopeless losers who still want to join the EU expecting gifts from it (which won’t be forthcoming, as the EU has no resources even to sustain itself, let alone to waste on aspiring shitholes).

    Besides, by the time Russia and Europe move to a reasonably healthy relationship, there will be no EU. Some kind of economic cooperation with Germany is possible, unless Anglosphere succeeds in its never-ending scheming to make Russia and Germany clash, like they did twice in the twentieth century.

    • Replies: @DFH

    unless Anglosphere succeeds in its never-ending scheming to make Russia and Germany clash, like they did twice in the twentieth century.
     
    lol
    , @Dmitry
    Within such imaginary EU membership, third world origin immigrants will not live in Russia, as within EU all have equal rights to live in any other EU country they want.

    Danger is not that Africans of Sweden will suddenly rush from Stockholm to live in Tolyatti. But more the other way round, that young people of cities like Tolyatti will rush to Stockholm to work in Starbucks (where the salary for serving coffee would be maybe $14 per hour).

    There's already a large problem of intranational emigration to cities like Moscow, where salary difference for many jobs is not in same dimension as would exist in relation to North Western European countries within the EU.

  34. @Mr. Hack

    With its untapped economic potential and need for immigrants to develop its vast territory, it could be a big help in resolving migration issues.
     
    I don't think that Bershidsky says anything too controversial here? It's plain enough for anybody to see that Russia's own population growth will not suffice to develop its own vast European territory, much less the even vaster Siberian and Eastern ones. It would be interesting to see an accurate accounting of the breakup of new immigrants to the Far East and to Siberia. I suspect that the Chinese would be at the top of the list. White immigrants to these inhospitable lands in the past were mostly made up of Russians and Ukrainians, and a much smaller share of Polish prisoners of war. There doesn't seem much today (or on the drawing board) to entice these sorts of European immigrants to help populate these more than vast lands. In fact, the only white European immigrants that you hear about moving to Russia today, are a motley group of starving 'entrepreneurs' and flamboyant tax evaders.

    a much smaller share of Polish prisoners of war

    Do you have any more information about this? I thought that all of the Polish POWs were sent away after the start of Barbarossa.

    • Replies: @AP
    Not only Polish POWs but also Polish deportees. My wife is partially descended from them (a Polish family avoided getting shipped West, ended up getting shipped East).
  35. @melanf

    It would be interesting to see an accurate accounting of the breakup of new immigrants to the Far East and to Siberia. I suspect that the Chinese would be at the top of the list.
     
    Very funny

    Number of the persons who received Russian citizenship for the first half of 2018

    Ukraine 39582 people,
    Kazakhstan 21266 people,
    Armenia 12989 people,
    Uzbekistan 9879 people,
    Moldova 7759 people,
    Kyrgyzstan 4392 people,
    Georgia 1150 people,
    Belarus 2140 people,
    Vietnam 199 people,
    Israel 76 people,
    USA 53 people,
    China 34 people,
    India 24 people,

    I stated to the Russian Far East and to Siberia, not European Russia.

    • Replies: @melanf

    I stated to the Russian Far East and to Siberia, not European Russia
     
    It is very easy to see what the population looks like in the far East, right on the border with China. Each school and University post photos of students. Here is a typical photo (far East, right on the border with China)

    http://www.teleport2001.ru/files/teleport/images/2018/01/26/glavnaya.jpg

    https://riabir.ru/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/RVTV4cMaPjQ.jpg

    https://vladnews.ru/uploads/gallery/4993/801ef21fda1165a45c1abb54d4e0f804.JPG
  36. @melanf

    It would be interesting to see an accurate accounting of the breakup of new immigrants to the Far East and to Siberia. I suspect that the Chinese would be at the top of the list.
     
    Very funny

    Number of the persons who received Russian citizenship for the first half of 2018

    Ukraine 39582 people,
    Kazakhstan 21266 people,
    Armenia 12989 people,
    Uzbekistan 9879 people,
    Moldova 7759 people,
    Kyrgyzstan 4392 people,
    Georgia 1150 people,
    Belarus 2140 people,
    Vietnam 199 people,
    Israel 76 people,
    USA 53 people,
    China 34 people,
    India 24 people,

    Interesting stats. Looks like the shittier the shithole, the more people from it want Russian citizenship. India breaks this rule, though. It should have been #2, right after Ukraine. I guess they move to formerly Great formerly Britain instead, as in Russia they won’t be able to rape white girls with impunity.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    You're from Ukraine, yet opted for US citizenship, rather than Russian? You've mentioned here before that your mother was Ukrainian, but how about your father? You never seem to mention the ethnicity (or is it religious preference) of your father?...
    , @Dmitry

    Looks like the shittier the shithole, the more people from it want Russian citizenship.
     
    Kazakhstan is not a shithole (and they are generally cool people from there of different nationalities).

    But yes, this list with 13 countries. Excluding 5 countries in the list (China, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Israel and USA), leaving 8 countries - all are citizens of countries with GDP per capita PPP below $12,000, which are adopting citizenship of Russia.

    No EU country has GDP per capita PPP below $12,000.

    Poorest EU country by this measure (GDP per capita PPP) is Bulgaria, whose GDP per capita PPP is $23,207.

    EU (imaginary) membership would not produce any mass immigration to Russia.

  37. @AnonFromTN
    Of course, those parasites won’t settle in Russia: there are no freebies for them, and won’t be.

    I have no doubt that Russia won’t join the EU even if the EU would want it (which is very unlikely). Russia won’t cede its sovereignty to some cucks in Brussels. After the catastrophe of 1990-s nobody proposing this would ever get more than 10% vote in Russian elections (in 100% honest elections people like that won’t even get 5%). Russia is not an inconsequential third-rate country like those that joined the EU in the last 20-25 years, or like the hopeless losers who still want to join the EU expecting gifts from it (which won’t be forthcoming, as the EU has no resources even to sustain itself, let alone to waste on aspiring shitholes).

    Besides, by the time Russia and Europe move to a reasonably healthy relationship, there will be no EU. Some kind of economic cooperation with Germany is possible, unless Anglosphere succeeds in its never-ending scheming to make Russia and Germany clash, like they did twice in the twentieth century.

    unless Anglosphere succeeds in its never-ending scheming to make Russia and Germany clash, like they did twice in the twentieth century.

    lol

  38. @AnonFromTN
    Interesting stats. Looks like the shittier the shithole, the more people from it want Russian citizenship. India breaks this rule, though. It should have been #2, right after Ukraine. I guess they move to formerly Great formerly Britain instead, as in Russia they won’t be able to rape white girls with impunity.

    You’re from Ukraine, yet opted for US citizenship, rather than Russian? You’ve mentioned here before that your mother was Ukrainian, but how about your father? You never seem to mention the ethnicity (or is it religious preference) of your father?…

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Don’t you worry about my Russian citizenship, I have that, too. At the time of the breakup of the USSR I lived in Russia, so it did not require any effort on my part. For someone who likes to travel it is convenient to have Russian and US citizenship: there are quite a few countries where only a person with a death wish would go with the US passport.

    I kind of understand your tribal obsession, but some people are more civilized than that, including many Russians. As a former military commander of Gorlovka Bezler said: “My mother is Ukrainian, my father German. So, who am I? A Russian!” Russian is not a nationality, it’s a state of mind. People with primeval mentality won’t understand.
  39. @Mr. Hack
    You're from Ukraine, yet opted for US citizenship, rather than Russian? You've mentioned here before that your mother was Ukrainian, but how about your father? You never seem to mention the ethnicity (or is it religious preference) of your father?...

    Don’t you worry about my Russian citizenship, I have that, too. At the time of the breakup of the USSR I lived in Russia, so it did not require any effort on my part. For someone who likes to travel it is convenient to have Russian and US citizenship: there are quite a few countries where only a person with a death wish would go with the US passport.

    I kind of understand your tribal obsession, but some people are more civilized than that, including many Russians. As a former military commander of Gorlovka Bezler said: “My mother is Ukrainian, my father German. So, who am I? A Russian!” Russian is not a nationality, it’s a state of mind. People with primeval mentality won’t understand.

  40. So your father and yourself by extension are natural born ‘cosmopolitans’. I’ve personally known others with your particular ethnic mix that have shown a much greater respect for Ukraine, its people and its language. Unfortunately, you’re not one of them.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    There is nothing wrong with Ukrainian culture or beautiful Ukrainian language. There is everything wrong with the current murderous kleptocratic regime. Compared to the lying thieves and compradores now in Kiev, even Quislings look patriotic and honest.
  41. @Mr. Hack
    Has Karlin included statistics showing who actually is leaving home and settling in the Russian Far East and Siberia? Also, a lot of settlers seem to be illegal and may not be included within any published statistical records.

    If Russia wants to keep pace with its more populous neighbors, it will need to import immigrants 'of color' Not too many German or French want to move to these parts (and do what, work in the forests and oil fields as drillers). I suspect that good paying engineering jobs are still going mostly to Russians and Ukrainians.

    The Chinese north east is losing population fast as the northern Han migrate towards the coast. Chinese salaries are almost the same as Russian salaries in dollar terms. Why would a northern Han migrate illegally to Siberia when he could find work easily at higher wages in the much more developed areas of China?Who would rather live in Kamchatsky Petropavlosk or Khabarovsk than Shenzen or HK? China also has a very low TFR, lower than Russia so your chinese takeover of Siberia theory is complete horseshit.

  42. @Mr. Hack
    I stated to the Russian Far East and to Siberia, not European Russia.

    I stated to the Russian Far East and to Siberia, not European Russia

    It is very easy to see what the population looks like in the far East, right on the border with China. Each school and University post photos of students. Here is a typical photo (far East, right on the border with China)

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    These photos look a little bit too bleached out to be accurate. Perhaps, there are schools where white Russians predominate and other schools for all of the rest (asiatics)? Or maybe there just aren't any asiatics in that part of the world? Or thirdly, perhaps the Chinese and Koreans that live in the Far East don't send their children to schools? I think that those are the only three options?
    , @DFH
    Those photos really make you notice the distinctive Slavic nose type
  43. So Russia’s fate is to be a mineral resource depot, dumping ground for Third Worlders, and cannon fodder for the retirement home and taxpayer funded mansion for Somalis better known as the EU.

    Shit! You would think that Russia had suffered enough!?

  44. @melanf

    I stated to the Russian Far East and to Siberia, not European Russia
     
    It is very easy to see what the population looks like in the far East, right on the border with China. Each school and University post photos of students. Here is a typical photo (far East, right on the border with China)

    http://www.teleport2001.ru/files/teleport/images/2018/01/26/glavnaya.jpg

    https://riabir.ru/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/RVTV4cMaPjQ.jpg

    https://vladnews.ru/uploads/gallery/4993/801ef21fda1165a45c1abb54d4e0f804.JPG

    These photos look a little bit too bleached out to be accurate. Perhaps, there are schools where white Russians predominate and other schools for all of the rest (asiatics)? Or maybe there just aren’t any asiatics in that part of the world? Or thirdly, perhaps the Chinese and Koreans that live in the Far East don’t send their children to schools? I think that those are the only three options?

    • Replies: @German_reader
    That's kind of a dumb discussion though, you can't really believe that Bershidsky is referring to Chinese when he writes of Russia "helping" to resolve the EU's "migration issues"? It means being opened up to Mideastern and African immigration.
    , @melanf

    Perhaps, there are schools where white Russians predominate and other schools for all of the rest (asiatics)? Or maybe there just aren’t any asiatics in that part of the world?
     
    The first is wrong, the second is true
    https://vladnews.ru/uploads/news/2018/04/16/f82383fd98ed993611df30d1ebad4b9b9bc6bfb5.jpeg
    According to the "racial" composition, the Russian far East (near China) is Eastern Europe. Even Moscow and St. Petersburg are more " Asian"

    Or thirdly, perhaps the Chinese and Koreans that live in the Far East don’t send their children to schools?
     
    Americans refused personal cars, Russians drink water on holidays, Germans stopped working, Chinese and Koreans don’t send their children to schools. Which of these statements is the most incredible?
    , @Thorfinnsson
    Yellow Peril is quite out of date.

    China and South Korea have below replacement fertility. Chinese and South Koreans also don't want to move to Siberia--they want to move to Shanghai and Seoul. Salaries in Chinese cities are just as good as Russian ones now, and you get to speak with fellow Chinese instead of struggling with Russian. South Korea is now as rich as Japan.

    There are North Koreans in the Russian Far East, I believe working as guest workers. I don't believe their families are allowed with them.

    China also doesn't suffer from "population pressure" or anything like that. The country is, surprisingly, a net exporter of food. And China's border with Russia is thinly populated, at least by Chinese standards. Heilongjiang province has 38 million people, but the province is larger than Germany. Population density is 220 people per square mile, which ranks it 28th out of 34 Chinese administrative divisions.

    Chinese aren't illegally migrating into Russia, instead they illegally migrate into Shanghai and live in illegal shanty towns. In fact theses densest parts of China, places like Beijing and Shanghai, have their population officially capped by the state (as a result of a bizarre obsession with Friedrich Engels).
  45. @AnonFromTN
    Interesting stats. Looks like the shittier the shithole, the more people from it want Russian citizenship. India breaks this rule, though. It should have been #2, right after Ukraine. I guess they move to formerly Great formerly Britain instead, as in Russia they won’t be able to rape white girls with impunity.

    Looks like the shittier the shithole, the more people from it want Russian citizenship.

    Kazakhstan is not a shithole (and they are generally cool people from there of different nationalities).

    But yes, this list with 13 countries. Excluding 5 countries in the list (China, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Israel and USA), leaving 8 countries – all are citizens of countries with GDP per capita PPP below $12,000, which are adopting citizenship of Russia.

    No EU country has GDP per capita PPP below $12,000.

    Poorest EU country by this measure (GDP per capita PPP) is Bulgaria, whose GDP per capita PPP is $23,207.

    EU (imaginary) membership would not produce any mass immigration to Russia.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    In some ways Kazakhstan is a powder keg. Many white people there are preparing for ethnic cleansing, similar to what happened in the other four post-Soviet republics in Central Asia. Apparently, some are running away w/o waiting for that to happen.

    I agree that the people in Kazakhstan we ever meet are cool. But these are either white people, or civilized urban Kazakhs for whom Russian is a mother tongue. I know several people from Kazakhstan, all good people. All of them fall into these categories, though. Kazakh nationalism is popular among uneducated village dwellers. However, as they breed much faster, the demographic situation in Kazakhstan is rapidly changing to the disadvantage of civilized people of both races. For now, Nazarbayev’s regime controls tribal forces, but he is very old and won’t live forever. After him, all bets are off.
  46. @Mr. Hack
    These photos look a little bit too bleached out to be accurate. Perhaps, there are schools where white Russians predominate and other schools for all of the rest (asiatics)? Or maybe there just aren't any asiatics in that part of the world? Or thirdly, perhaps the Chinese and Koreans that live in the Far East don't send their children to schools? I think that those are the only three options?

    That’s kind of a dumb discussion though, you can’t really believe that Bershidsky is referring to Chinese when he writes of Russia “helping” to resolve the EU’s “migration issues”? It means being opened up to Mideastern and African immigration.

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @Beckow

    ...opened up to Mideastern and African immigration.
     
    And India. Western Europe's migration issues are not solvable, they can only be managed. The best thing Russia can do for Europe is to keep its territory from opening up as a corridor to Europe.

    Bershitsky wants to dump millions of surplus migrants into Russia. His 'well-meaning' article comes down to: Russia needs to apologize for Putin, take a few million migrants, and ship cheap energy and resources to Europe. And he is a 'moderate'...this will be fun when it really gets going.
  47. @AnonFromTN
    Of course, those parasites won’t settle in Russia: there are no freebies for them, and won’t be.

    I have no doubt that Russia won’t join the EU even if the EU would want it (which is very unlikely). Russia won’t cede its sovereignty to some cucks in Brussels. After the catastrophe of 1990-s nobody proposing this would ever get more than 10% vote in Russian elections (in 100% honest elections people like that won’t even get 5%). Russia is not an inconsequential third-rate country like those that joined the EU in the last 20-25 years, or like the hopeless losers who still want to join the EU expecting gifts from it (which won’t be forthcoming, as the EU has no resources even to sustain itself, let alone to waste on aspiring shitholes).

    Besides, by the time Russia and Europe move to a reasonably healthy relationship, there will be no EU. Some kind of economic cooperation with Germany is possible, unless Anglosphere succeeds in its never-ending scheming to make Russia and Germany clash, like they did twice in the twentieth century.

    Within such imaginary EU membership, third world origin immigrants will not live in Russia, as within EU all have equal rights to live in any other EU country they want.

    Danger is not that Africans of Sweden will suddenly rush from Stockholm to live in Tolyatti. But more the other way round, that young people of cities like Tolyatti will rush to Stockholm to work in Starbucks (where the salary for serving coffee would be maybe $14 per hour).

    There’s already a large problem of intranational emigration to cities like Moscow, where salary difference for many jobs is not in same dimension as would exist in relation to North Western European countries within the EU.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Take into account that prices in Moscow are also 2-3 times higher than in the provinces. So, the difference in actual buying power is not as great as the difference in nominal salaries. But Moscow provides more opportunities than provincial cities, Starbucks not being the most attractive of them. This was true back in the USSR times, hence a lot of people engaged in various shenanigans to move to Moscow.
  48. @Mr. Hack
    These photos look a little bit too bleached out to be accurate. Perhaps, there are schools where white Russians predominate and other schools for all of the rest (asiatics)? Or maybe there just aren't any asiatics in that part of the world? Or thirdly, perhaps the Chinese and Koreans that live in the Far East don't send their children to schools? I think that those are the only three options?

    Perhaps, there are schools where white Russians predominate and other schools for all of the rest (asiatics)? Or maybe there just aren’t any asiatics in that part of the world?

    The first is wrong, the second is true

    According to the “racial” composition, the Russian far East (near China) is Eastern Europe. Even Moscow and St. Petersburg are more ” Asian”

    Or thirdly, perhaps the Chinese and Koreans that live in the Far East don’t send their children to schools?

    Americans refused personal cars, Russians drink water on holidays, Germans stopped working, Chinese and Koreans don’t send their children to schools. Which of these statements is the most incredible?

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    I find it difficult to find any hardcore statistics that break down the ethnic composition of the Far East? Most commentrary alludes to the fact that its majority is of Russian/Ukrainian mixture. But how much exactly? Most commentary also points out that its a very sparsely populated area with about 6.3 million inhabitants, and shrinking as we mince our words here. I'm sure that the larges cities have a solid core of white Slavic admixture, but how about in the countryside and closer to the Chinese and Korean borders?...
  49. @German_reader
    That's kind of a dumb discussion though, you can't really believe that Bershidsky is referring to Chinese when he writes of Russia "helping" to resolve the EU's "migration issues"? It means being opened up to Mideastern and African immigration.

    …opened up to Mideastern and African immigration.

    And India. Western Europe’s migration issues are not solvable, they can only be managed. The best thing Russia can do for Europe is to keep its territory from opening up as a corridor to Europe.

    Bershitsky wants to dump millions of surplus migrants into Russia. His ‘well-meaning’ article comes down to: Russia needs to apologize for Putin, take a few million migrants, and ship cheap energy and resources to Europe. And he is a ‘moderate’…this will be fun when it really gets going.

    • Replies: @German_reader

    Western Europe’s migration issues are not solvable, they can only be managed.
     
    Of course they are solvable, it's merely a question of political will and what kind of methods one is willing to use.
    At least it would be easily possible to stop new arrivals from coming, even without resorting to really extreme measures.
    Don't really know this Bershidsky fellow, but his proposal is total fantasy anyway, all the more ridiculous at a time when the EU increasingly looks like a failed project that could break apart in the not too distant future. The kind of EU-Russia integration he proposes would have been unrealistic even at the best of times, today it's laughable.
    , @DFH
    They are very easily solvable. European governments could just start towing the boats back and respond to any attempts at violence with force. Fortunately the Mediterranean makes keeping people out very easy.
  50. @Dmitry

    Looks like the shittier the shithole, the more people from it want Russian citizenship.
     
    Kazakhstan is not a shithole (and they are generally cool people from there of different nationalities).

    But yes, this list with 13 countries. Excluding 5 countries in the list (China, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Israel and USA), leaving 8 countries - all are citizens of countries with GDP per capita PPP below $12,000, which are adopting citizenship of Russia.

    No EU country has GDP per capita PPP below $12,000.

    Poorest EU country by this measure (GDP per capita PPP) is Bulgaria, whose GDP per capita PPP is $23,207.

    EU (imaginary) membership would not produce any mass immigration to Russia.

    In some ways Kazakhstan is a powder keg. Many white people there are preparing for ethnic cleansing, similar to what happened in the other four post-Soviet republics in Central Asia. Apparently, some are running away w/o waiting for that to happen.

    I agree that the people in Kazakhstan we ever meet are cool. But these are either white people, or civilized urban Kazakhs for whom Russian is a mother tongue. I know several people from Kazakhstan, all good people. All of them fall into these categories, though. Kazakh nationalism is popular among uneducated village dwellers. However, as they breed much faster, the demographic situation in Kazakhstan is rapidly changing to the disadvantage of civilized people of both races. For now, Nazarbayev’s regime controls tribal forces, but he is very old and won’t live forever. After him, all bets are off.

    • Replies: @Epigon
    Hopefully they go full retard so southern Siberia can be returned to where it belongs.

    Ideally, Russia would repatriate all Whites from -stans of former USSR.
    , @Dmitry
    I'm sceptical the main reason different nationalities are escaping Kazakhstan, is because of supposed rise of caveman nationalism there. People from Kazakhstan (including Kazakhs) I had met abroad, had always seemed nice, multinationally tolerant people.

    I would cynically say, it's much more they leave because due to their nationality, they have opportunity to live in better countries, than Kazakhstan. They leave because it's easy for them to leave.

    Let's be honest, for example, if you can because of your ancestors qualify for things like a German passport (opening the whole EU), why would you stay in Kazakhstan?

    , @The Scalpel
    What are the prospects, if any, of the previously proposed (re)union of Russia, Belarus, and Kazakhstan?
  51. @Beckow

    ...opened up to Mideastern and African immigration.
     
    And India. Western Europe's migration issues are not solvable, they can only be managed. The best thing Russia can do for Europe is to keep its territory from opening up as a corridor to Europe.

    Bershitsky wants to dump millions of surplus migrants into Russia. His 'well-meaning' article comes down to: Russia needs to apologize for Putin, take a few million migrants, and ship cheap energy and resources to Europe. And he is a 'moderate'...this will be fun when it really gets going.

    Western Europe’s migration issues are not solvable, they can only be managed.

    Of course they are solvable, it’s merely a question of political will and what kind of methods one is willing to use.
    At least it would be easily possible to stop new arrivals from coming, even without resorting to really extreme measures.
    Don’t really know this Bershidsky fellow, but his proposal is total fantasy anyway, all the more ridiculous at a time when the EU increasingly looks like a failed project that could break apart in the not too distant future. The kind of EU-Russia integration he proposes would have been unrealistic even at the best of times, today it’s laughable.

    • Replies: @Beckow

    ...a question of political will and what kind of methods one is willing to use.
     
    Let me explain why I think the issue is not really solvable:

    There is a critical mass of unassimilable migrants in the main Western European countries. They have come to dominate all major cities, from London to Berlin. They are allowed to bring in more of their relatives, so even with complete control of Mediterranean, the family-reunification/cousin marriage will continue. The social benefits that they most use are not the meagre cash payments that could be cut easily, they are using the education, medical and housing social systems. The abuse is literally built into the systems. The parasites have moved in and the social system cannot change - it can collapse completely, but it cannot be reformed at this point.

    As it looks today, the required political will is a few years away, if ever. The methods required become ever harsher with each year, so the odds of implementation are less. There was a tipping point in 2010-15, and people ignored it. Now the choices are: managing it (but it will be miserable), geographic separations, or a complete collapse that could free up all kinds of harsh methods, but is unpredictable and very unpleasant to live through.

    What is insane is that there is still a very powerful elite group pushing yet another option: accelerate the migration-open borders-globalization process. Make it ubiquitous, suppress any opposition, and change Europe even faster. And they think they are winning. Nothing I have seen suggests that they are not. That Russian lebensraum might be needed after all, Bershitsky doesn't just talk sh..t, he means it.

  52. @Dmitry
    Within such imaginary EU membership, third world origin immigrants will not live in Russia, as within EU all have equal rights to live in any other EU country they want.

    Danger is not that Africans of Sweden will suddenly rush from Stockholm to live in Tolyatti. But more the other way round, that young people of cities like Tolyatti will rush to Stockholm to work in Starbucks (where the salary for serving coffee would be maybe $14 per hour).

    There's already a large problem of intranational emigration to cities like Moscow, where salary difference for many jobs is not in same dimension as would exist in relation to North Western European countries within the EU.

    Take into account that prices in Moscow are also 2-3 times higher than in the provinces. So, the difference in actual buying power is not as great as the difference in nominal salaries. But Moscow provides more opportunities than provincial cities, Starbucks not being the most attractive of them. This was true back in the USSR times, hence a lot of people engaged in various shenanigans to move to Moscow.

  53. @Mr. Hack

    With its untapped economic potential and need for immigrants to develop its vast territory, it could be a big help in resolving migration issues.
     
    I don't think that Bershidsky says anything too controversial here? It's plain enough for anybody to see that Russia's own population growth will not suffice to develop its own vast European territory, much less the even vaster Siberian and Eastern ones. It would be interesting to see an accurate accounting of the breakup of new immigrants to the Far East and to Siberia. I suspect that the Chinese would be at the top of the list. White immigrants to these inhospitable lands in the past were mostly made up of Russians and Ukrainians, and a much smaller share of Polish prisoners of war. There doesn't seem much today (or on the drawing board) to entice these sorts of European immigrants to help populate these more than vast lands. In fact, the only white European immigrants that you hear about moving to Russia today, are a motley group of starving 'entrepreneurs' and flamboyant tax evaders.

    It’s not so much controversial as it is stupid. We can cut Bershidsky some slack in that he’s not the first person to have this stupid thought. After all, it was official Soviet policy.

    There’s a lot of people who have the idea that because Russia’s land mass is so vast, it must have vast economic potential. Pity that it’s so thinly populated and thus can’t develop.

    The reality is that most of it is useless tundra.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Useless tundra, or a vast repository of minerals and forests and woodlands? It's freakin extremely large!
  54. If Gorbachev was still in power, he’d implement Bershidsky’s proposals like a shot……….

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Then thank goodness that this cuck is no longer in power.
  55. @Thorfinnsson
    It's not so much controversial as it is stupid. We can cut Bershidsky some slack in that he's not the first person to have this stupid thought. After all, it was official Soviet policy.

    There's a lot of people who have the idea that because Russia's land mass is so vast, it must have vast economic potential. Pity that it's so thinly populated and thus can't develop.

    The reality is that most of it is useless tundra.

    Useless tundra, or a vast repository of minerals and forests and woodlands? It’s freakin extremely large!

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Just look how, historically, how the Czars and the Soviets were forced to 'recruit' labour to work in Siberia.

    Do you really, seriously think that the black/brown trash the likes of which are seen loafing the streets of London and Paris will really, honestly, willingly go *alive* to work the Siberian gold fields?
    , @Thorfinnsson
    Minerals and energy are already being exploited throughout Siberia. This is not labor intensive and doesn't require large population centers. No different than the way oil and fish is heavily exploited in Alaska (population 740,000 in a territory about the size of Western Europe) along with oil and beef heavily developed in the Canadian province of Alberta (population 660,000 in a territory the size of France). And these places both have large tourism sectors.

    There is probably room to improve timber production however, as Russia is only the sixth largest timber exporter in the world (amazingly Germany is #5). But timber harvesting isn't labor intensive either. Today we have power saws, skidders, and timberjacks. I suspect what's needed here is transportation infrastructure, above all else timber roads.

    But I suspect the number one area where Siberia has a lot of promise is the tourism sector. It is as I understand an area of stunning beauty, but one which receives few visitors especially from overseas.

  56. Anonymous[213] • Disclaimer says:

    There’s no ‘welfare state’ in Russia.

    That fact alone is enough to keep out the third world trash.

    I mean just *who* really is dumb enough to leave a tropical country to freeze their balls off whilst living in poverty? – at least at home the tropical trash have got sunshine.

    Curiously, Finland is inundated with black/brown riff-raff. The difference is that the stupid Finns give the trash warm centrally heated apartments, free health care, free money etc etc.

  57. @Mr. Hack
    So your father and yourself by extension are natural born 'cosmopolitans'. I've personally known others with your particular ethnic mix that have shown a much greater respect for Ukraine, its people and its language. Unfortunately, you're not one of them.

    There is nothing wrong with Ukrainian culture or beautiful Ukrainian language. There is everything wrong with the current murderous kleptocratic regime. Compared to the lying thieves and compradores now in Kiev, even Quislings look patriotic and honest.

  58. @Mr. Hack
    These photos look a little bit too bleached out to be accurate. Perhaps, there are schools where white Russians predominate and other schools for all of the rest (asiatics)? Or maybe there just aren't any asiatics in that part of the world? Or thirdly, perhaps the Chinese and Koreans that live in the Far East don't send their children to schools? I think that those are the only three options?

    Yellow Peril is quite out of date.

    China and South Korea have below replacement fertility. Chinese and South Koreans also don’t want to move to Siberia–they want to move to Shanghai and Seoul. Salaries in Chinese cities are just as good as Russian ones now, and you get to speak with fellow Chinese instead of struggling with Russian. South Korea is now as rich as Japan.

    There are North Koreans in the Russian Far East, I believe working as guest workers. I don’t believe their families are allowed with them.

    China also doesn’t suffer from “population pressure” or anything like that. The country is, surprisingly, a net exporter of food. And China’s border with Russia is thinly populated, at least by Chinese standards. Heilongjiang province has 38 million people, but the province is larger than Germany. Population density is 220 people per square mile, which ranks it 28th out of 34 Chinese administrative divisions.

    Chinese aren’t illegally migrating into Russia, instead they illegally migrate into Shanghai and live in illegal shanty towns. In fact theses densest parts of China, places like Beijing and Shanghai, have their population officially capped by the state (as a result of a bizarre obsession with Friedrich Engels).

    • Agree: melanf
    • Replies: @AP
    I saw lots of Chinese traders in the Urals in the early 2000s, but no Chinese families. Presumably they are gone now, as China's economy has improved.
  59. @Anonymous
    If Gorbachev was still in power, he'd implement Bershidsky's proposals like a shot..........

    Then thank goodness that this cuck is no longer in power.

  60. Anonymous[213] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr. Hack
    Useless tundra, or a vast repository of minerals and forests and woodlands? It's freakin extremely large!

    Just look how, historically, how the Czars and the Soviets were forced to ‘recruit’ labour to work in Siberia.

    Do you really, seriously think that the black/brown trash the likes of which are seen loafing the streets of London and Paris will really, honestly, willingly go *alive* to work the Siberian gold fields?

  61. @AnonFromTN

    I suspect that Putin is a mild version of what will come after him.
     
    You are right. The West will rue the day when Putin goes. It’s too late, anyway: most Russians are well aware of European hypocrisy. Worse yet, they are aware of European impotence.

    Are you sure? I would bet that the next president will be a Putin’s choice. May be Medvedev (or someone like him). I don’t see some real siloviky like Patrushev as next president. Anyway, the succession game is not open yet.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Medvedev (or another liberal nonentity like him) in Russia has a chance of a snowflake in Hell. But we’ll see soon enough: Putin is not a spring chicken, to put it mildly. Even though he is healthy, he’d be gone in 10 years or sooner.
  62. Anonymous[213] • Disclaimer says:

    Of course, in the long run massive third world immigration will ‘blow up’ – in the literal sense – western Europe, and perhaps the entire EU area.
    Only a fool can doubt this.

    Strategically thinking, such an internal self-committed blow-up can only *benefit* Russia.

    It’s just a case of wise leaders – that’s a big if – sitting quietly and waiting it out.

  63. @melanf

    Perhaps, there are schools where white Russians predominate and other schools for all of the rest (asiatics)? Or maybe there just aren’t any asiatics in that part of the world?
     
    The first is wrong, the second is true
    https://vladnews.ru/uploads/news/2018/04/16/f82383fd98ed993611df30d1ebad4b9b9bc6bfb5.jpeg
    According to the "racial" composition, the Russian far East (near China) is Eastern Europe. Even Moscow and St. Petersburg are more " Asian"

    Or thirdly, perhaps the Chinese and Koreans that live in the Far East don’t send their children to schools?
     
    Americans refused personal cars, Russians drink water on holidays, Germans stopped working, Chinese and Koreans don’t send their children to schools. Which of these statements is the most incredible?

    I find it difficult to find any hardcore statistics that break down the ethnic composition of the Far East? Most commentrary alludes to the fact that its majority is of Russian/Ukrainian mixture. But how much exactly? Most commentary also points out that its a very sparsely populated area with about 6.3 million inhabitants, and shrinking as we mince our words here. I’m sure that the larges cities have a solid core of white Slavic admixture, but how about in the countryside and closer to the Chinese and Korean borders?…

    • Replies: @Epigon
    Why do you believe that ethnic Chinese and Koreans would immigrate there?

    Have you forgotten the Russian nineties, early 2000s?
    No, seriously, why would any of East Asians willing to emmigrate pick Russian Far East as their destination of choice?
    , @melanf
    Тhe national composition of the population of Primorsky Krai. 2010
    Nationality. Absolute number. % of the total population .
    Russian. 1 861 808. | 89.89%.
    Ukrainians. 94 058. | 4.54%.
    Koreans. 17 899. | 0.86%.
    Tartars. 14 549. | 0.70%.
    Belarusians. 11 627. | 0.56%.
    Armenians. 5 641. | 0.27%.
    Azerbaijanians. 4 411. | 0.21%.
    Mordovians. 4 307. | 0.21%.
    Сhinese . 3 840. | 0.19%.
    Germans. 3 578. | 0.17%.
    Chuvash. 3 287. | 0.16%.
    Moldavians. 2 288. | 0.11%.
    Bashkirs. 2 101. | 0.10%.
    Uzbeks. 1 634. | 0.08%.
    Kazakhs. 1 296. | 0.06%.
    Mari. 1 151. | 0.06%.
    Udmurts. 1 130. | 0.05%.
    Poles. 1 060. | 0.05%.
    Jews. 1 059. | 0.05%.
    , @DreadIlk
    I forgive your ignorance.

    Russian Far East in any documentary or news video you only see whites. It's pretty inhospitable and Russians are pretty xenophobic, especially to cultures that are more aggressive then them. So I am not surprised that Far East remains mostly white.
  64. @Mr. Hack
    Useless tundra, or a vast repository of minerals and forests and woodlands? It's freakin extremely large!

    Minerals and energy are already being exploited throughout Siberia. This is not labor intensive and doesn’t require large population centers. No different than the way oil and fish is heavily exploited in Alaska (population 740,000 in a territory about the size of Western Europe) along with oil and beef heavily developed in the Canadian province of Alberta (population 660,000 in a territory the size of France). And these places both have large tourism sectors.

    There is probably room to improve timber production however, as Russia is only the sixth largest timber exporter in the world (amazingly Germany is #5). But timber harvesting isn’t labor intensive either. Today we have power saws, skidders, and timberjacks. I suspect what’s needed here is transportation infrastructure, above all else timber roads.

    But I suspect the number one area where Siberia has a lot of promise is the tourism sector. It is as I understand an area of stunning beauty, but one which receives few visitors especially from overseas.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Also, don't forget the cultivation and retrieval of the highly coveted musk oil gotten from the glands of the ever decreasing siberian musk deer. No real man's toiletry set is ever really complete without this useful accoutrement? :-)
    , @UrbaneFrancoOntarian
    Alberta would have over three million people, not 660,000.
    , @pilgrim007
    Alberta's area is 660,000 skm, population is 4 millions
  65. @AnonFromTN
    In some ways Kazakhstan is a powder keg. Many white people there are preparing for ethnic cleansing, similar to what happened in the other four post-Soviet republics in Central Asia. Apparently, some are running away w/o waiting for that to happen.

    I agree that the people in Kazakhstan we ever meet are cool. But these are either white people, or civilized urban Kazakhs for whom Russian is a mother tongue. I know several people from Kazakhstan, all good people. All of them fall into these categories, though. Kazakh nationalism is popular among uneducated village dwellers. However, as they breed much faster, the demographic situation in Kazakhstan is rapidly changing to the disadvantage of civilized people of both races. For now, Nazarbayev’s regime controls tribal forces, but he is very old and won’t live forever. After him, all bets are off.

    Hopefully they go full retard so southern Siberia can be returned to where it belongs.

    Ideally, Russia would repatriate all Whites from -stans of former USSR.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    All whites (and civilized locals) have already left four out of five -stans. That brought those -stans back ~100 years. Serves them right. Kazakhstan is the last -stan standing in the twenty first century. We’ll see whether it remains there, or goes the way of the other -stans. There is much greater fraction of white residents there than in the other four. So, they might leave with the territory they inhabit (Western and Northern Kazakhstan). Not that Russia needs any more territory.
  66. @Mr. Hack
    I find it difficult to find any hardcore statistics that break down the ethnic composition of the Far East? Most commentrary alludes to the fact that its majority is of Russian/Ukrainian mixture. But how much exactly? Most commentary also points out that its a very sparsely populated area with about 6.3 million inhabitants, and shrinking as we mince our words here. I'm sure that the larges cities have a solid core of white Slavic admixture, but how about in the countryside and closer to the Chinese and Korean borders?...

    Why do you believe that ethnic Chinese and Koreans would immigrate there?

    Have you forgotten the Russian nineties, early 2000s?
    No, seriously, why would any of East Asians willing to emmigrate pick Russian Far East as their destination of choice?

    • Replies: @aedib
    “Chinese taking Siberia from those evil Ruskies” is the wet dream of many Russophobes. Just wishful thinking.
    The actual migration flows in China go to the rich coastal cities.
    , @Mr. Hack
    No, of course not. I've in mind those that just live on the other side of the border, that have been trickling in for several centuries. Just how many?.....
    , @melanf

    Why do you believe that ethnic Chinese and Koreans would immigrate there?
     
    Well, Koreans from Central Asia migrate EN masse to Russia (with minor migration to South Korea). But for these Koreans native language - Russian..
  67. @aedib
    Are you sure? I would bet that the next president will be a Putin’s choice. May be Medvedev (or someone like him). I don’t see some real siloviky like Patrushev as next president. Anyway, the succession game is not open yet.

    Medvedev (or another liberal nonentity like him) in Russia has a chance of a snowflake in Hell. But we’ll see soon enough: Putin is not a spring chicken, to put it mildly. Even though he is healthy, he’d be gone in 10 years or sooner.

    • Replies: @neutral

    Putin is not a spring chicken
     
    Interestingly enough he is still younger than people like Trump, Sanders, Biden, and all these people are seeking to get elected. He is the same age as Elizabeth Warren, and in America some people argue that she is a fresh new face in politics.
    , @aedib
    May you give us a likely profile of the next Russian president? Someone like... Gerasimov?
  68. @melanf

    It would be interesting to see an accurate accounting of the breakup of new immigrants to the Far East and to Siberia. I suspect that the Chinese would be at the top of the list.
     
    Very funny

    Number of the persons who received Russian citizenship for the first half of 2018

    Ukraine 39582 people,
    Kazakhstan 21266 people,
    Armenia 12989 people,
    Uzbekistan 9879 people,
    Moldova 7759 people,
    Kyrgyzstan 4392 people,
    Georgia 1150 people,
    Belarus 2140 people,
    Vietnam 199 people,
    Israel 76 people,
    USA 53 people,
    China 34 people,
    India 24 people,

    Ukraine 39582 people,
    Kazakhstan 21266 people,

    It would be interesting to know percentages of little Russians and big Russians for the first line and the percentage of white and nonwhite migrants for the second one.
    I would not be surprised if several hundred draft-dodgers from Western Ukraine are found between those 40k migrants from Ukraine.

    • Replies: @melanf

    It would be interesting to know percentages of little Russians and big Russians for the first line and the percentage of white and nonwhite migrants for the second one.
     
    https://c.radikal.ru/c11/1811/f1/0b8e5575dcfe.png

    That is, approximately 80% of migrants to Russia are "white"


    I would not be surprised if several hundred draft-dodgers from Western Ukraine are found between those 40k migrants from Ukraine.
     
    without doubt
  69. @melanf

    I stated to the Russian Far East and to Siberia, not European Russia
     
    It is very easy to see what the population looks like in the far East, right on the border with China. Each school and University post photos of students. Here is a typical photo (far East, right on the border with China)

    http://www.teleport2001.ru/files/teleport/images/2018/01/26/glavnaya.jpg

    https://riabir.ru/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/RVTV4cMaPjQ.jpg

    https://vladnews.ru/uploads/gallery/4993/801ef21fda1165a45c1abb54d4e0f804.JPG

    Those photos really make you notice the distinctive Slavic nose type

    • Replies: @melanf

    Those photos really make you notice the distinctive Slavic nose type
     
    Me seems that there is no "Slavic type nose." Slavs (and Russians in particular) have different origins and different phenotypes. To distinguish them on anthropological grounds from other peoples of Europe is almost impossible. If you think otherwise-determine (without Google) where the Slavs in the pictures

    https://c.radikal.ru/c40/1812/b2/f86636a055c2.jpg

    https://b.radikal.ru/b01/1812/d1/64de17304c8a.jpg

    http://www.rusdeutsch.ru/fotos/60704_big.jpg

    https://d.radikal.ru/d32/1812/73/771ea6429cdb.jpg

    , @silviosilver

    Those photos really make you notice the distinctive Slavic nose type
     
    It's readily discernible in certain cloud formations, too.

    A refusal to ever question one's assumptions is also said to enhance one's ability to spot it.

  70. @Beckow

    ...opened up to Mideastern and African immigration.
     
    And India. Western Europe's migration issues are not solvable, they can only be managed. The best thing Russia can do for Europe is to keep its territory from opening up as a corridor to Europe.

    Bershitsky wants to dump millions of surplus migrants into Russia. His 'well-meaning' article comes down to: Russia needs to apologize for Putin, take a few million migrants, and ship cheap energy and resources to Europe. And he is a 'moderate'...this will be fun when it really gets going.

    They are very easily solvable. European governments could just start towing the boats back and respond to any attempts at violence with force. Fortunately the Mediterranean makes keeping people out very easy.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    The ones coming on boats are mostly a distraction. Check out the families coming in at Heathrow or Schipol airports - legally: to 'reunite families', 'marry', 'study', do 'business'.
  71. @Epigon
    Hopefully they go full retard so southern Siberia can be returned to where it belongs.

    Ideally, Russia would repatriate all Whites from -stans of former USSR.

    All whites (and civilized locals) have already left four out of five -stans. That brought those -stans back ~100 years. Serves them right. Kazakhstan is the last -stan standing in the twenty first century. We’ll see whether it remains there, or goes the way of the other -stans. There is much greater fraction of white residents there than in the other four. So, they might leave with the territory they inhabit (Western and Northern Kazakhstan). Not that Russia needs any more territory.

  72. @Epigon
    Why do you believe that ethnic Chinese and Koreans would immigrate there?

    Have you forgotten the Russian nineties, early 2000s?
    No, seriously, why would any of East Asians willing to emmigrate pick Russian Far East as their destination of choice?

    “Chinese taking Siberia from those evil Ruskies” is the wet dream of many Russophobes. Just wishful thinking.
    The actual migration flows in China go to the rich coastal cities.

  73. @Mr. Hack
    I find it difficult to find any hardcore statistics that break down the ethnic composition of the Far East? Most commentrary alludes to the fact that its majority is of Russian/Ukrainian mixture. But how much exactly? Most commentary also points out that its a very sparsely populated area with about 6.3 million inhabitants, and shrinking as we mince our words here. I'm sure that the larges cities have a solid core of white Slavic admixture, but how about in the countryside and closer to the Chinese and Korean borders?...

    Тhe national composition of the population of Primorsky Krai. 2010
    Nationality. Absolute number. % of the total population .
    Russian. 1 861 808. | 89.89%.
    Ukrainians. 94 058. | 4.54%.
    Koreans. 17 899. | 0.86%.
    Tartars. 14 549. | 0.70%.
    Belarusians. 11 627. | 0.56%.
    Armenians. 5 641. | 0.27%.
    Azerbaijanians. 4 411. | 0.21%.
    Mordovians. 4 307. | 0.21%.
    Сhinese . 3 840. | 0.19%.
    Germans. 3 578. | 0.17%.
    Chuvash. 3 287. | 0.16%.
    Moldavians. 2 288. | 0.11%.
    Bashkirs. 2 101. | 0.10%.
    Uzbeks. 1 634. | 0.08%.
    Kazakhs. 1 296. | 0.06%.
    Mari. 1 151. | 0.06%.
    Udmurts. 1 130. | 0.05%.
    Poles. 1 060. | 0.05%.
    Jews. 1 059. | 0.05%.

  74. Anonymous[248] • Disclaimer says:

    China is the *only* winner in the Economist pushed globalisation game.

    Onwards and upwards she goes, to totally dominate the 21st century economically and industrially.
    Meanwhile the moribund EU continues to stagnate and stagnate until it’s a global irrelevance.

    Where should Russia sell its resources?

    Why, it’s a no brainer.

  75. @Thorfinnsson
    Minerals and energy are already being exploited throughout Siberia. This is not labor intensive and doesn't require large population centers. No different than the way oil and fish is heavily exploited in Alaska (population 740,000 in a territory about the size of Western Europe) along with oil and beef heavily developed in the Canadian province of Alberta (population 660,000 in a territory the size of France). And these places both have large tourism sectors.

    There is probably room to improve timber production however, as Russia is only the sixth largest timber exporter in the world (amazingly Germany is #5). But timber harvesting isn't labor intensive either. Today we have power saws, skidders, and timberjacks. I suspect what's needed here is transportation infrastructure, above all else timber roads.

    But I suspect the number one area where Siberia has a lot of promise is the tourism sector. It is as I understand an area of stunning beauty, but one which receives few visitors especially from overseas.

    Also, don’t forget the cultivation and retrieval of the highly coveted musk oil gotten from the glands of the ever decreasing siberian musk deer. No real man’s toiletry set is ever really complete without this useful accoutrement? 🙂

  76. @AnonFromTN
    Medvedev (or another liberal nonentity like him) in Russia has a chance of a snowflake in Hell. But we’ll see soon enough: Putin is not a spring chicken, to put it mildly. Even though he is healthy, he’d be gone in 10 years or sooner.

    Putin is not a spring chicken

    Interestingly enough he is still younger than people like Trump, Sanders, Biden, and all these people are seeking to get elected. He is the same age as Elizabeth Warren, and in America some people argue that she is a fresh new face in politics.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    You can’t compare the US and RF. It’s one thing to be a puppet – dementia only helps to play this role, and another thing to actually run the country where you are a leader.
  77. @Epigon
    Why do you believe that ethnic Chinese and Koreans would immigrate there?

    Have you forgotten the Russian nineties, early 2000s?
    No, seriously, why would any of East Asians willing to emmigrate pick Russian Far East as their destination of choice?

    No, of course not. I’ve in mind those that just live on the other side of the border, that have been trickling in for several centuries. Just how many?…..

    • Replies: @Jaakko Raipala

    No, of course not. I’ve in mind those that just live on the other side of the border,
     
    The people on the other side of the Russia/China border are largely not ethnically Chinese. That border region is desert, mountains, steppe or taiga. The Chinese were farmers of river plains who did not populate the northern parts where they couldn't grow rice or wheat. The north was inhabited by native nomadic peoples and their historical relation with the Chinese has been that either the Chinese subjugated them or they subjugated the Chinese.

    that have been trickling in for several centuries. Just how many?…..
     
    Essentially zero. Chinese have not been trickling into Siberia for centuries. This is a projection by Westernized people who've been brainwashed into thinking that migration is some inevitable law of nature and not an engineered policy. Illegal migrants flood Europe and America because significant factions in Western elites want that to happen. Russia hasn't had elites that would have wanted mass migration of Chinese into Siberia so it hasn't been allowed.

    Similarly, despite the wealth difference, there is essentially zero illegal Russian migration to Finland. Neither government wants that so it isn't allowed to happen. China and Russia have good relations and neighboring governments with good relations can control migration very easily if they want to.

    Siberia is over 90 % Russian and the cities are even more Russian. Siberian cities are much more white than most European cities now. Native Siberian ethnic groups have no relation to the Chinese and no history of pro-Chinese sentiment. You have this bizarre idea that northern Asian ethnic groups would automatically side with China against Russia because they're all "Asiatics". Because Asiatics all favor each out of racial solidarity, right? Just look at any internet forum with Asian users and see the love between China, Japan and Korea.

    Most northern Asian ethnic groups are pro-Russian because they fear China and when China was weak they were pro-Russian because they feared Japan. The one independent Siberian ethnostate, Mongolia, is pro-Russian because they fear China. There are exceptions like Tuva where the locals engaged in some violence and rebellion against Russians after the fall of the USSR but even there the local nationalists are not pro-Chinese and China has no reason to support them.
  78. @German_reader

    I suspect that the Chinese would be at the top of the list.
     
    iirc AK has debunked the "Chinese are taking over Siberia" thesis several times in the past.
    And "help in resolving migration issues" sounds an awful lot like "Russia has a lot of space, it should take its fair share of the population surplus of the failed societies of the Mideast and subsaharan Africa". Not a good idea, not in the best interest of Russians.
    But anyway, as has already been pointed out, this will probably remain fantasy anyway...it does look likely that Putin's successor will be more nationalistic, not less (in retrospect the Putin era might well be seen as a lost chance for establishing good relations with Russia...certainly from a German perspective; at least Putin occasionally said nice things about Germany which nobody else does). I have to admit I find the sense of anti-European grievance and resentment expressed by some commenters here (admittedly mostly not Russians actually living in Russia) disturbing, this bodes ill for the future.

    No one can be more ‘anti-European’ than Europe’s current crop of leaders.

    Who do you think is inviting all those third world bastards in?

  79. Anonymous[213] • Disclaimer says:

    Speaking as a European, in all honesty, I must state that a world with an insignificant Europe would be a better world.

    I say that because I have *absolutely zero respect* for the filth and shit who currently misrule Europe and are bringing in the third world by the boatload.

    As the Americans say, ‘put a fork in it, it’s done’.

  80. @German_reader

    Western Europe’s migration issues are not solvable, they can only be managed.
     
    Of course they are solvable, it's merely a question of political will and what kind of methods one is willing to use.
    At least it would be easily possible to stop new arrivals from coming, even without resorting to really extreme measures.
    Don't really know this Bershidsky fellow, but his proposal is total fantasy anyway, all the more ridiculous at a time when the EU increasingly looks like a failed project that could break apart in the not too distant future. The kind of EU-Russia integration he proposes would have been unrealistic even at the best of times, today it's laughable.

    …a question of political will and what kind of methods one is willing to use.

    Let me explain why I think the issue is not really solvable:

    There is a critical mass of unassimilable migrants in the main Western European countries. They have come to dominate all major cities, from London to Berlin. They are allowed to bring in more of their relatives, so even with complete control of Mediterranean, the family-reunification/cousin marriage will continue. The social benefits that they most use are not the meagre cash payments that could be cut easily, they are using the education, medical and housing social systems. The abuse is literally built into the systems. The parasites have moved in and the social system cannot change – it can collapse completely, but it cannot be reformed at this point.

    As it looks today, the required political will is a few years away, if ever. The methods required become ever harsher with each year, so the odds of implementation are less. There was a tipping point in 2010-15, and people ignored it. Now the choices are: managing it (but it will be miserable), geographic separations, or a complete collapse that could free up all kinds of harsh methods, but is unpredictable and very unpleasant to live through.

    What is insane is that there is still a very powerful elite group pushing yet another option: accelerate the migration-open borders-globalization process. Make it ubiquitous, suppress any opposition, and change Europe even faster. And they think they are winning. Nothing I have seen suggests that they are not. That Russian lebensraum might be needed after all, Bershitsky doesn’t just talk sh..t, he means it.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    A lot of what you write is unfortunately correct. My point was that these demographic changes aren't the result of unstoppable natural processes, but the result of political decisions - which even today could, at least to some extent, be reversed. But you're right that Western Europe's political class seems rather intent on doubling down on their mass immigration project (this became very clear this year in Germany with the UN global compact for migration being pushed through by Merkel's government against all opposition). There won't be a pleasant end to this either way (though I know which outcome I prefer).
    , @Anonymous
    The *real* problem is that too many shit-for-brains white cunts support the third world trash and will even kill and be killed defending the trash.
  81. @German_reader

    I suspect that the Chinese would be at the top of the list.
     
    iirc AK has debunked the "Chinese are taking over Siberia" thesis several times in the past.
    And "help in resolving migration issues" sounds an awful lot like "Russia has a lot of space, it should take its fair share of the population surplus of the failed societies of the Mideast and subsaharan Africa". Not a good idea, not in the best interest of Russians.
    But anyway, as has already been pointed out, this will probably remain fantasy anyway...it does look likely that Putin's successor will be more nationalistic, not less (in retrospect the Putin era might well be seen as a lost chance for establishing good relations with Russia...certainly from a German perspective; at least Putin occasionally said nice things about Germany which nobody else does). I have to admit I find the sense of anti-European grievance and resentment expressed by some commenters here (admittedly mostly not Russians actually living in Russia) disturbing, this bodes ill for the future.

    I kind of like the idea of settling migrants in Russia – in a gulag archipelago in Siberia. Not permanently, but just long enough for word to get back.

  82. @Felix Keverich

    My disagreements with Bershidsky have nothing to do with his ethno-religious background and current residence.
     
    I don't believe that debate about the future of Russia should be open to just about anybody. No, Jewish emigrees like Bershidsky do not get a say.

    @ DFH


    Weird how the Jewish vision for Russia is exactly the same as the Jewish vision for the USA/Canada/Australia/Britain/France etc.
     
    Exactly! Jews will be Jews.

    I don’t believe that debate about the future of Russia should be open to just about anybody. No, Jewish emigrees like Bershidsky do not get a say.

    Exactly! Jews will be Jews.

    Tongue in cheek, change one word to these:

    Not a fan of Ioffe, Gessen, Albats et al, while giving some credence to the Jews on the brain term, as they (Jews) are by no means monolithic.

    Writing about the future of Russia and having a say in it aren’t by default the same.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN

    Writing about the future of Russia and having a say in it aren’t by default the same
     
    Now, this is the crux of the matter. All those bershidkys, albats’, and gessens can write what they want (or whatever they are paid for), they have no say in the future of Russia.
  83. @neutral

    Putin is not a spring chicken
     
    Interestingly enough he is still younger than people like Trump, Sanders, Biden, and all these people are seeking to get elected. He is the same age as Elizabeth Warren, and in America some people argue that she is a fresh new face in politics.

    You can’t compare the US and RF. It’s one thing to be a puppet – dementia only helps to play this role, and another thing to actually run the country where you are a leader.

  84. @Mr. Hack
    I find it difficult to find any hardcore statistics that break down the ethnic composition of the Far East? Most commentrary alludes to the fact that its majority is of Russian/Ukrainian mixture. But how much exactly? Most commentary also points out that its a very sparsely populated area with about 6.3 million inhabitants, and shrinking as we mince our words here. I'm sure that the larges cities have a solid core of white Slavic admixture, but how about in the countryside and closer to the Chinese and Korean borders?...

    I forgive your ignorance.

    Russian Far East in any documentary or news video you only see whites. It’s pretty inhospitable and Russians are pretty xenophobic, especially to cultures that are more aggressive then them. So I am not surprised that Far East remains mostly white.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    The South of the Far East (Vladivostok and areas to the South of it) is not particularly inhospitable, it’s just unspoiled (some would say under-developed). Russians (like Americans) are not xenophobic: they easily accept people of any race and nationality who behave normally. But they won’t put up with aggressive tribalist scum (unlike emasculated Western Europeans, who appear to do just that nowadays).
    , @Mr. Hack

    Russian Far East in any documentary or news video you only see whites.
     
    You can stage events anyway you like. Likewise, society could be very stratified along ethnic and racial lines. I don't have all of the answers, only posing some questions. No 'forgiveness' is necessary you ignoramus.
    , @Mikhail

    Russian Far East in any documentary or news video you only see whites. It’s pretty inhospitable and Russians are pretty xenophobic, especially to cultures that are more aggressive then them. So I am not surprised that Far East remains mostly white.
     
    If Russians were so xenophobic, there wouldn't the mesh of different ethnic groups living on Russian territory over a lengthy period.

    Without checking the stats, Russia has a noticeable number of on-Slavs living in its far-east.
  85. @aedib


    Ukraine 39582 people,
    Kazakhstan 21266 people,

     

    It would be interesting to know percentages of little Russians and big Russians for the first line and the percentage of white and nonwhite migrants for the second one.
    I would not be surprised if several hundred draft-dodgers from Western Ukraine are found between those 40k migrants from Ukraine.

    It would be interesting to know percentages of little Russians and big Russians for the first line and the percentage of white and nonwhite migrants for the second one.


    That is, approximately 80% of migrants to Russia are “white”

    I would not be surprised if several hundred draft-dodgers from Western Ukraine are found between those 40k migrants from Ukraine.

    without doubt

  86. @Mikhail

    I don’t believe that debate about the future of Russia should be open to just about anybody. No, Jewish emigrees like Bershidsky do not get a say.
     

    Exactly! Jews will be Jews.
     
    Tongue in cheek, change one word to these:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ADgCeYJMN4

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qkuu0Lwb5EM

    Not a fan of Ioffe, Gessen, Albats et al, while giving some credence to the Jews on the brain term, as they (Jews) are by no means monolithic.

    Writing about the future of Russia and having a say in it aren't by default the same.

    Writing about the future of Russia and having a say in it aren’t by default the same

    Now, this is the crux of the matter. All those bershidkys, albats’, and gessens can write what they want (or whatever they are paid for), they have no say in the future of Russia.

  87. @inertial
    You are looking at it from the perspective of our cozy Russophile bubble (or community if you like.) From that perspective, sure, what Bershidsky said is ridiculous for any number of reasons.

    But Bershidsky's call for Russia-Europe cooperation is addressed at the European mainstream. Same mainstream that's currently obsessed about Russia engineering Brexit, Catalonia independence, French protests, etc.

    Bershidsky presents his case in the mildest possible way. It goes without saying that 100% of the present difficulties in the European-Russian relationship are due to perniciousness of Evil Putler. But after Putler is gone perhaps it makes sense to go a little easier on Russia? It's going to be good for your, dear European Establishment, dearest SJW obsessions. Environment! Refugees!

    Note how Bershidsky says that Europe will need courage to reach out to Russia. This shows how radical his proposal is from the mainstream POV. He is the one who needs courage. I am sure that even as we speak, someone out there is calling him Kremlin stooge for his proposal.

    …mainstream that’s currently obsessed about Russia engineering Brexit, Catalonia independence, French protests, etc.

    That is true, unfortunately. But is is also an oxymoron: a rational mainstream in an advanced civilised society cannot be a mainstream and also believe in the kind of meddling nonsense that they are obsessed with. Nonsense is nonsense, and if the grown-ups in the West refuse to call it out, well, what kind of a civilisation is that?

    By taking it seriously and trying to meet it half-way – as Bershitsky tries – nothing gets done. It validates the nonsense. The meddling narrative is over-the-top, it is disconnected from real life, it cannot be accommodated. We have reached a true impasse.

  88. @AnonFromTN
    Medvedev (or another liberal nonentity like him) in Russia has a chance of a snowflake in Hell. But we’ll see soon enough: Putin is not a spring chicken, to put it mildly. Even though he is healthy, he’d be gone in 10 years or sooner.

    May you give us a likely profile of the next Russian president? Someone like… Gerasimov?

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    I can’t name any names. But the next Russian president would be much less tolerant to liars (won’t call the US and EU “partners”) and would likely conduct more assertive foreign policy. This would be actually enabled by the economic and military developments on Putin’s watch. The people will never again tolerate gorbachovs or yeltsins, sober or drunk.
  89. @DreadIlk
    I forgive your ignorance.

    Russian Far East in any documentary or news video you only see whites. It's pretty inhospitable and Russians are pretty xenophobic, especially to cultures that are more aggressive then them. So I am not surprised that Far East remains mostly white.

    The South of the Far East (Vladivostok and areas to the South of it) is not particularly inhospitable, it’s just unspoiled (some would say under-developed). Russians (like Americans) are not xenophobic: they easily accept people of any race and nationality who behave normally. But they won’t put up with aggressive tribalist scum (unlike emasculated Western Europeans, who appear to do just that nowadays).

  90. @DreadIlk
    I forgive your ignorance.

    Russian Far East in any documentary or news video you only see whites. It's pretty inhospitable and Russians are pretty xenophobic, especially to cultures that are more aggressive then them. So I am not surprised that Far East remains mostly white.

    Russian Far East in any documentary or news video you only see whites.

    You can stage events anyway you like. Likewise, society could be very stratified along ethnic and racial lines. I don’t have all of the answers, only posing some questions. No ‘forgiveness’ is necessary you ignoramus.

  91. @aedib
    May you give us a likely profile of the next Russian president? Someone like... Gerasimov?

    I can’t name any names. But the next Russian president would be much less tolerant to liars (won’t call the US and EU “partners”) and would likely conduct more assertive foreign policy. This would be actually enabled by the economic and military developments on Putin’s watch. The people will never again tolerate gorbachovs or yeltsins, sober or drunk.

    • Replies: @Swarthy Greek
    What about Arthyukov?Nikitin Maybe? Both are relatively young, competent and loyal to Putin.
  92. @DreadIlk
    I forgive your ignorance.

    Russian Far East in any documentary or news video you only see whites. It's pretty inhospitable and Russians are pretty xenophobic, especially to cultures that are more aggressive then them. So I am not surprised that Far East remains mostly white.

    Russian Far East in any documentary or news video you only see whites. It’s pretty inhospitable and Russians are pretty xenophobic, especially to cultures that are more aggressive then them. So I am not surprised that Far East remains mostly white.

    If Russians were so xenophobic, there wouldn’t the mesh of different ethnic groups living on Russian territory over a lengthy period.

    Without checking the stats, Russia has a noticeable number of on-Slavs living in its far-east.

  93. @DFH
    They are very easily solvable. European governments could just start towing the boats back and respond to any attempts at violence with force. Fortunately the Mediterranean makes keeping people out very easy.

    The ones coming on boats are mostly a distraction. Check out the families coming in at Heathrow or Schipol airports – legally: to ‘reunite families’, ‘marry’, ‘study’, do ‘business’.

  94. @AnonFromTN
    I can’t name any names. But the next Russian president would be much less tolerant to liars (won’t call the US and EU “partners”) and would likely conduct more assertive foreign policy. This would be actually enabled by the economic and military developments on Putin’s watch. The people will never again tolerate gorbachovs or yeltsins, sober or drunk.

    What about Arthyukov?Nikitin Maybe? Both are relatively young, competent and loyal to Putin.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Sorry, I spent only ~8 weeks out of the last 27 years in Russia, so I don’t know the names. I think in the successor the loyalty to the country would be more important than loyalty to Putin. After all, internal policies of his regime (and people like Medvedev and Kudrin, not to mention universally hated Chubais) are tolerated in Russia largely because of Putin’s patriotic foreign policy. In my view, the regime is abusing this, showcasing Ukrainian madness, as well as American and European duplicity, to justify itself in the eyes of the population. There will likely be a significant correction of internal policy, which will make many of the remaining mega-thieves (oligarchs) very unhappy. Personally, I wish them all to rot in Hell. Maybe because I am biased – I never stole anything.
  95. @DFH
    Those photos really make you notice the distinctive Slavic nose type

    Those photos really make you notice the distinctive Slavic nose type

    Me seems that there is no “Slavic type nose.” Slavs (and Russians in particular) have different origins and different phenotypes. To distinguish them on anthropological grounds from other peoples of Europe is almost impossible. If you think otherwise-determine (without Google) where the Slavs in the pictures

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Pure Russians (although pure nationalities exist only in the minds of demented rabid nationalists) look very much like Northern Germans: blue eyes, blond hair, relatively small nose, widish face. But in general, the population in Russia has vary diverse phenotypes (and represents more than 100 different nationalities of two races: Caucasian and Asian).
    , @neutral
    Look at the following, these are more well known people, how many of these do you consider Russian?

    https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/images/shoigu.jpg

    https://khabibmcgregor.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/khabib-papakha-933x400.jpg

    https://www.thestandard.co.zw/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Kirsan-Ilyumzhinov-the-former-President-of-the-Republic-of-Kalmykia-and-head-of-the-World-Chess-Federation-Fide.jpg

    All three consider themselves Russian, which tells me more than enough that Russia is simply adhering to cuckservatism lite, with the end result of such an ideology being predictable.

  96. @AnonFromTN
    In some ways Kazakhstan is a powder keg. Many white people there are preparing for ethnic cleansing, similar to what happened in the other four post-Soviet republics in Central Asia. Apparently, some are running away w/o waiting for that to happen.

    I agree that the people in Kazakhstan we ever meet are cool. But these are either white people, or civilized urban Kazakhs for whom Russian is a mother tongue. I know several people from Kazakhstan, all good people. All of them fall into these categories, though. Kazakh nationalism is popular among uneducated village dwellers. However, as they breed much faster, the demographic situation in Kazakhstan is rapidly changing to the disadvantage of civilized people of both races. For now, Nazarbayev’s regime controls tribal forces, but he is very old and won’t live forever. After him, all bets are off.

    I’m sceptical the main reason different nationalities are escaping Kazakhstan, is because of supposed rise of caveman nationalism there. People from Kazakhstan (including Kazakhs) I had met abroad, had always seemed nice, multinationally tolerant people.

    I would cynically say, it’s much more they leave because due to their nationality, they have opportunity to live in better countries, than Kazakhstan. They leave because it’s easy for them to leave.

    Let’s be honest, for example, if you can because of your ancestors qualify for things like a German passport (opening the whole EU), why would you stay in Kazakhstan?

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Well, I know one half-Kazakh half-German girl (nice and intelligent), but she lives and works in the US. BTW, she speaks Russian fluently (can’t check her Kazakh, but that language has too few words for the developed society, anyway), knows Russian classical music, and has fairly good English.
  97. @German_reader

    I suspect that the Chinese would be at the top of the list.
     
    iirc AK has debunked the "Chinese are taking over Siberia" thesis several times in the past.
    And "help in resolving migration issues" sounds an awful lot like "Russia has a lot of space, it should take its fair share of the population surplus of the failed societies of the Mideast and subsaharan Africa". Not a good idea, not in the best interest of Russians.
    But anyway, as has already been pointed out, this will probably remain fantasy anyway...it does look likely that Putin's successor will be more nationalistic, not less (in retrospect the Putin era might well be seen as a lost chance for establishing good relations with Russia...certainly from a German perspective; at least Putin occasionally said nice things about Germany which nobody else does). I have to admit I find the sense of anti-European grievance and resentment expressed by some commenters here (admittedly mostly not Russians actually living in Russia) disturbing, this bodes ill for the future.

    You have a habit decrying ‘anti-European’ sentiment, but there is vastly more hatred of Russia and Russians in western Europe than the other way around. Even the nationalists in Germany tend to buy into “Russians are asiatic savages, Slava Ukraina”.

    I’m a Germanophile personally but there’s not much hope for truly good Germany-Russia relations unless your people change your attitude.

    • Replies: @German_reader

    Even the nationalists in Germany tend to buy into “Russians are asiatic savages, Slava Ukraina”.
     
    Nonsense, the "nationalist" party in Germany AfD is the most pro-Russian one and opposed to further confrontation with Russia.
    Genuine Nazis may be different, but they're a fringe phenomenon.
  98. @Swarthy Greek
    What about Arthyukov?Nikitin Maybe? Both are relatively young, competent and loyal to Putin.

    Sorry, I spent only ~8 weeks out of the last 27 years in Russia, so I don’t know the names. I think in the successor the loyalty to the country would be more important than loyalty to Putin. After all, internal policies of his regime (and people like Medvedev and Kudrin, not to mention universally hated Chubais) are tolerated in Russia largely because of Putin’s patriotic foreign policy. In my view, the regime is abusing this, showcasing Ukrainian madness, as well as American and European duplicity, to justify itself in the eyes of the population. There will likely be a significant correction of internal policy, which will make many of the remaining mega-thieves (oligarchs) very unhappy. Personally, I wish them all to rot in Hell. Maybe because I am biased – I never stole anything.

    • Replies: @Swarthy Greek
    I agree that Chubais should be shot and buried in a ditch.The son of a bitch crashed the Russian economy and was rewarded with getting to seat on Rosnano’s board.
    I actually like most of Kudrin’s economic policies.Kudrin’s funds saved the Russian state from the 08 and 15 recessions. Had Putin and Medvedev slowed down the growth of military expenditures in 2011 just like Kudrin advised it Russia would be in a much better position economically. Guys like Sechin are much more nefarious to Russia. Kudrin’s inoffensive statements on FP have zero effect on policy making. Sechin’s bailout request in 2015 almost brought the economy down.
  99. @Epigon
    Why do you believe that ethnic Chinese and Koreans would immigrate there?

    Have you forgotten the Russian nineties, early 2000s?
    No, seriously, why would any of East Asians willing to emmigrate pick Russian Far East as their destination of choice?

    Why do you believe that ethnic Chinese and Koreans would immigrate there?

    Well, Koreans from Central Asia migrate EN masse to Russia (with minor migration to South Korea). But for these Koreans native language – Russian..

  100. @Beckow

    ...a question of political will and what kind of methods one is willing to use.
     
    Let me explain why I think the issue is not really solvable:

    There is a critical mass of unassimilable migrants in the main Western European countries. They have come to dominate all major cities, from London to Berlin. They are allowed to bring in more of their relatives, so even with complete control of Mediterranean, the family-reunification/cousin marriage will continue. The social benefits that they most use are not the meagre cash payments that could be cut easily, they are using the education, medical and housing social systems. The abuse is literally built into the systems. The parasites have moved in and the social system cannot change - it can collapse completely, but it cannot be reformed at this point.

    As it looks today, the required political will is a few years away, if ever. The methods required become ever harsher with each year, so the odds of implementation are less. There was a tipping point in 2010-15, and people ignored it. Now the choices are: managing it (but it will be miserable), geographic separations, or a complete collapse that could free up all kinds of harsh methods, but is unpredictable and very unpleasant to live through.

    What is insane is that there is still a very powerful elite group pushing yet another option: accelerate the migration-open borders-globalization process. Make it ubiquitous, suppress any opposition, and change Europe even faster. And they think they are winning. Nothing I have seen suggests that they are not. That Russian lebensraum might be needed after all, Bershitsky doesn't just talk sh..t, he means it.

    A lot of what you write is unfortunately correct. My point was that these demographic changes aren’t the result of unstoppable natural processes, but the result of political decisions – which even today could, at least to some extent, be reversed. But you’re right that Western Europe’s political class seems rather intent on doubling down on their mass immigration project (this became very clear this year in Germany with the UN global compact for migration being pushed through by Merkel’s government against all opposition). There won’t be a pleasant end to this either way (though I know which outcome I prefer).

    • Replies: @Beckow

    ...political decisions – which even today could, at least to some extent, be reversed.
     
    They could be reversed, but that wouldn't necessarily fix the problem. I have struggled with how this could work and it is very messy - in a free society one cannot tell others who to marry, and all else with chain migration follows from that. A first step would be to admit that those political decisions (like in 2015) didn't work and were wrong. That is no longer done in the West - nobody is ever held accountable for anything.

    The lack of accountability leads to Merkel doubling down and pushing the UN migration compact. It reminds of an exchange my dad had with a true commie believer in the 80's:

    'you lowered the price of bread and now peasants are buying it up to feed their chickens - it is wasteful' -

    'great, we should abolish money altogether...'

    How does one argue with an ideologue? The only remedy is to hold them accountable, you know the proverbial skin in the game.
  101. @Adam
    You have a habit decrying 'anti-European' sentiment, but there is vastly more hatred of Russia and Russians in western Europe than the other way around. Even the nationalists in Germany tend to buy into "Russians are asiatic savages, Slava Ukraina".

    I'm a Germanophile personally but there's not much hope for truly good Germany-Russia relations unless your people change your attitude.

    Even the nationalists in Germany tend to buy into “Russians are asiatic savages, Slava Ukraina”.

    Nonsense, the “nationalist” party in Germany AfD is the most pro-Russian one and opposed to further confrontation with Russia.
    Genuine Nazis may be different, but they’re a fringe phenomenon.

    • Replies: @Adam
    Fair enough. I'm just going by personal experience. Still, you have to admit that Germany is largely a Russophobic country while Russians tend to be indifferent or even positive towards Germans.
    , @AnonFromTN
    Maybe they just remember that German troops were in the Baltics and in Ukraine in the 1940-s. A fat lot of good it did Germany.
  102. @melanf

    Those photos really make you notice the distinctive Slavic nose type
     
    Me seems that there is no "Slavic type nose." Slavs (and Russians in particular) have different origins and different phenotypes. To distinguish them on anthropological grounds from other peoples of Europe is almost impossible. If you think otherwise-determine (without Google) where the Slavs in the pictures

    https://c.radikal.ru/c40/1812/b2/f86636a055c2.jpg

    https://b.radikal.ru/b01/1812/d1/64de17304c8a.jpg

    http://www.rusdeutsch.ru/fotos/60704_big.jpg

    https://d.radikal.ru/d32/1812/73/771ea6429cdb.jpg

    Pure Russians (although pure nationalities exist only in the minds of demented rabid nationalists) look very much like Northern Germans: blue eyes, blond hair, relatively small nose, widish face. But in general, the population in Russia has vary diverse phenotypes (and represents more than 100 different nationalities of two races: Caucasian and Asian).

    • Replies: @melanf

    Pure Russians (although pure nationalities exist only in the minds of demented rabid nationalists) look very much like Northern Germans: blue eyes, blond hair, relatively small nose, widish face.
     
    There are (since the early middle ages) two different types of "pure" Russians: Northern Russians and Southern Russians. They have a common language and culture, but different origins. Here are anecdotal illustration of the differences of the two types (Arkhangelsk and Moscow):

    https://a.radikal.ru/a25/1812/61/209e5f36bc98.jpg

    https://a.radikal.ru/a34/1812/61/55a30e8e480a.jpg

    As you can see the Northern Russians are very similar in appearance to the Scandinavians (both the German-speaking and Finnish-speaking). Southern Russians are indistinguishable from Рoles and Slovaks. "Pure" Northern Russians live in the deserted North and their number is small, but it is they who conquered Siberia in the 16th-17th centuries, and therefore the Russian population of the Urals, Siberia and the Far East has noticeable "Northern" features.

    But in general, the population in Russia has vary diverse phenotypes

     

    As far as I know the genetic differences within the Russian ethnic group are more significant than in other indigenous ethnic groups in Europe.
  103. @Dmitry
    I'm sceptical the main reason different nationalities are escaping Kazakhstan, is because of supposed rise of caveman nationalism there. People from Kazakhstan (including Kazakhs) I had met abroad, had always seemed nice, multinationally tolerant people.

    I would cynically say, it's much more they leave because due to their nationality, they have opportunity to live in better countries, than Kazakhstan. They leave because it's easy for them to leave.

    Let's be honest, for example, if you can because of your ancestors qualify for things like a German passport (opening the whole EU), why would you stay in Kazakhstan?

    Well, I know one half-Kazakh half-German girl (nice and intelligent), but she lives and works in the US. BTW, she speaks Russian fluently (can’t check her Kazakh, but that language has too few words for the developed society, anyway), knows Russian classical music, and has fairly good English.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    AnonFromTN - it sounds like you meet the same people.

    I met people from Kazakhstan also with "German" nationality (allowing German passport).

    Lol I was wondering if maybe there is some factory in Kazakhstan that falsifies your certificates with German nationality so you can get a German passport, and whether I can contact this place.
  104. @German_reader

    Even the nationalists in Germany tend to buy into “Russians are asiatic savages, Slava Ukraina”.
     
    Nonsense, the "nationalist" party in Germany AfD is the most pro-Russian one and opposed to further confrontation with Russia.
    Genuine Nazis may be different, but they're a fringe phenomenon.

    Fair enough. I’m just going by personal experience. Still, you have to admit that Germany is largely a Russophobic country while Russians tend to be indifferent or even positive towards Germans.

  105. @Thorfinnsson
    Minerals and energy are already being exploited throughout Siberia. This is not labor intensive and doesn't require large population centers. No different than the way oil and fish is heavily exploited in Alaska (population 740,000 in a territory about the size of Western Europe) along with oil and beef heavily developed in the Canadian province of Alberta (population 660,000 in a territory the size of France). And these places both have large tourism sectors.

    There is probably room to improve timber production however, as Russia is only the sixth largest timber exporter in the world (amazingly Germany is #5). But timber harvesting isn't labor intensive either. Today we have power saws, skidders, and timberjacks. I suspect what's needed here is transportation infrastructure, above all else timber roads.

    But I suspect the number one area where Siberia has a lot of promise is the tourism sector. It is as I understand an area of stunning beauty, but one which receives few visitors especially from overseas.

    Alberta would have over three million people, not 660,000.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Sorry--read the wrong line on Wiki while typing.

    Still not densely populated, and worth noting that in the oil sands (Fort McMurray) very few people live.

    Of course the original home of Alberta oil, the Turner Valley, is near Calgary.
  106. @inertial
    You are looking at it from the perspective of our cozy Russophile bubble (or community if you like.) From that perspective, sure, what Bershidsky said is ridiculous for any number of reasons.

    But Bershidsky's call for Russia-Europe cooperation is addressed at the European mainstream. Same mainstream that's currently obsessed about Russia engineering Brexit, Catalonia independence, French protests, etc.

    Bershidsky presents his case in the mildest possible way. It goes without saying that 100% of the present difficulties in the European-Russian relationship are due to perniciousness of Evil Putler. But after Putler is gone perhaps it makes sense to go a little easier on Russia? It's going to be good for your, dear European Establishment, dearest SJW obsessions. Environment! Refugees!

    Note how Bershidsky says that Europe will need courage to reach out to Russia. This shows how radical his proposal is from the mainstream POV. He is the one who needs courage. I am sure that even as we speak, someone out there is calling him Kremlin stooge for his proposal.

    I’ve seen him called a Kremlin stooge in a Facebook comment thread.

    • Replies: @byrresheim
    That may be so, but then sickos seem to be encouraged on fb these days.
  107. @German_reader

    Even the nationalists in Germany tend to buy into “Russians are asiatic savages, Slava Ukraina”.
     
    Nonsense, the "nationalist" party in Germany AfD is the most pro-Russian one and opposed to further confrontation with Russia.
    Genuine Nazis may be different, but they're a fringe phenomenon.

    Maybe they just remember that German troops were in the Baltics and in Ukraine in the 1940-s. A fat lot of good it did Germany.

  108. @UrbaneFrancoOntarian
    Alberta would have over three million people, not 660,000.

    Sorry–read the wrong line on Wiki while typing.

    Still not densely populated, and worth noting that in the oil sands (Fort McMurray) very few people live.

    Of course the original home of Alberta oil, the Turner Valley, is near Calgary.

  109. @DFH

    a much smaller share of Polish prisoners of war
     
    Do you have any more information about this? I thought that all of the Polish POWs were sent away after the start of Barbarossa.

    Not only Polish POWs but also Polish deportees. My wife is partially descended from them (a Polish family avoided getting shipped West, ended up getting shipped East).

  110. @Thorfinnsson
    Yellow Peril is quite out of date.

    China and South Korea have below replacement fertility. Chinese and South Koreans also don't want to move to Siberia--they want to move to Shanghai and Seoul. Salaries in Chinese cities are just as good as Russian ones now, and you get to speak with fellow Chinese instead of struggling with Russian. South Korea is now as rich as Japan.

    There are North Koreans in the Russian Far East, I believe working as guest workers. I don't believe their families are allowed with them.

    China also doesn't suffer from "population pressure" or anything like that. The country is, surprisingly, a net exporter of food. And China's border with Russia is thinly populated, at least by Chinese standards. Heilongjiang province has 38 million people, but the province is larger than Germany. Population density is 220 people per square mile, which ranks it 28th out of 34 Chinese administrative divisions.

    Chinese aren't illegally migrating into Russia, instead they illegally migrate into Shanghai and live in illegal shanty towns. In fact theses densest parts of China, places like Beijing and Shanghai, have their population officially capped by the state (as a result of a bizarre obsession with Friedrich Engels).

    I saw lots of Chinese traders in the Urals in the early 2000s, but no Chinese families. Presumably they are gone now, as China’s economy has improved.

  111. @AnonFromTN
    Sorry, I spent only ~8 weeks out of the last 27 years in Russia, so I don’t know the names. I think in the successor the loyalty to the country would be more important than loyalty to Putin. After all, internal policies of his regime (and people like Medvedev and Kudrin, not to mention universally hated Chubais) are tolerated in Russia largely because of Putin’s patriotic foreign policy. In my view, the regime is abusing this, showcasing Ukrainian madness, as well as American and European duplicity, to justify itself in the eyes of the population. There will likely be a significant correction of internal policy, which will make many of the remaining mega-thieves (oligarchs) very unhappy. Personally, I wish them all to rot in Hell. Maybe because I am biased – I never stole anything.

    I agree that Chubais should be shot and buried in a ditch.The son of a bitch crashed the Russian economy and was rewarded with getting to seat on Rosnano’s board.
    I actually like most of Kudrin’s economic policies.Kudrin’s funds saved the Russian state from the 08 and 15 recessions. Had Putin and Medvedev slowed down the growth of military expenditures in 2011 just like Kudrin advised it Russia would be in a much better position economically. Guys like Sechin are much more nefarious to Russia. Kudrin’s inoffensive statements on FP have zero effect on policy making. Sechin’s bailout request in 2015 almost brought the economy down.

  112. Mr. Hack, I am not sure why you are concern-trolling about Chinese swarming the Siberian border, but it is not very realistic.

    Why don’t you try Central Asians instead, which is actually halfway plausible?

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Asking a few questions is verboten at this blogsite, or what? Noone has currently answered this elementary question yet, that I brought up in comment #63 that would go a long way in answering the questions posed:

    I find it difficult to find any hardcore statistics that break down the ethnic composition of the Far East? Most commentrary alludes to the fact that its majority is of Russian/Ukrainian mixture. But how much exactly?
     
  113. @Thorfinnsson
    Photovoltaic cells are semiconductors and are thus subject to the same diminishing returns we're now observing in integrated circuits.

    They're also geographically limited, and even if room temperature superconductors are invented (dubious) transmission will still cost money (capex, depreciation).

    There's thus a ceiling on solar marketshare. We may even be past the rational ceiling in many markets owing to the Green religion. There is no rational reason to put solar panels in Germany for instance, yet it is one of the world's largest solar producers. Japan, another place where solar panels have no place and ought to be forbidden by law, is now one of the fastest growing markets. This is driven by atomophobia.

    Solar power being intermittent, it must also be paired with other forms of energy generation (generally natural gas) and/or storage (hydro most efficient).

    Nuclear fusion has been 10 years away now for the past 50 years.

    Oil demand will plausibly peak by mid-century or perhaps earlier (Royal Dutch Shell says 2026 for instance), but barring a relaxation in the worldwide plague of hysterical atomophobia natural gas demand is likely to grow for many years to come.

    Populations in developed countries may start falling, or the countries themselves may start physically deteriorating owing to race replacement by biologically inferior invaders. In that event energy demand could actually fall, rather than simply peaking as has historically been the case in Europe and Japan.

    Venezuela looks like Venezuela because it's governed by orangutans. Russia without its energy exports would be poorer and have to further devalue the Rouble, but would actually be fine. If Saudi Arabia persists on its current course however it is going bankrupt and potentially facing civil war.

    As for the climate change issue, well, I have no idea how it will shake out. Reversing "previous damage" would appear to require not simply a gigantic reduction in emissions, but also sequestration. Presumably the most effective way to do that would be a worldwide change in agricultural practices to encourage the buildup of top soil.

    TF

    I value your comments.

    Let me therefore ask you 4 questions.

    1. Do you believe that the average temperature on earth has risen over the past 40 years in sharp contrast with respect to say the previous 40 years?

    2. If the answer is yes, do you think the primary cause is human activity?

    3. If the answer is yes to 1 do you think that the set of measure propounded by the COP2x types can reverse the process?

    4. Independently — if the worse predictions made by the GIEC and similar bodies were to occur, would this necessarily be a bad thing?

    I answer as follows;
    1. Yes
    2, can’t decide — but leaning No
    3. A definitive No
    4. No. The climate has been warmer before in historical times and it was fine and dandy.

    What do YOU think?

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    I answer, "I do not know" to all four questions. I don't even know what COP2X and GIEC are.

    The AGW hypothesis makes inherent sense to me, but I'm deeply suspicious of the entities behind it. They're the same people who have a long track of being wrong about almost everything and have inflicted and continue to inflict tremendous harm on our societies.

    The fact that many of them are also atomophobes strongly suggests ulterior motives. Lately there has been a massive upsurge in vegan propaganda. They're now claiming that GHG emissions from cattle (methane) are devastating, and we must go vegan to save the planet.

    In the United States, which is the world's second largest GHG emitter and has the world's fourth largest cattle herd (though it would be third by cattle mass), cattle GHG emissions are only 2% of all our GHG emissions. And that's when you deliberately ignore how cattle contribute to returning carbon to the soil. It also ignores that methane in the atmosphere deteriorates in a decade (unlike with CO2, as I understand).

    So what is the real agenda exactly? Who is behind this, and what are their motivations?

    Lastly, Joyeux Noel and Bonne Annee!

    https://www.artcurial.com/sites/default/files/styles/840_width/public/lots-images/2017-09-30-21/3006_10560763_0.jpg?itok=O_W4jKZZ

    http://www.artcurial.com/sites/default/files/lots-images/2017-09-30-21/3006_10560767_0.jpg

    , @songbird
    Pournelle used to have a pretty good comeback: the Vikings had farms in Greenland that are emerging from the ice.
    , @German_reader

    The climate has been warmer before in historical times
     
    When? I know average temperatures were higher in Europe during the high middle ages, but my understanding is that such climate change was localized to specific regions during historical times, whereas the present change is global, and also more drastic than anything known from history.
  114. @Hyperborean
    Mr. Hack, I am not sure why you are concern-trolling about Chinese swarming the Siberian border, but it is not very realistic.

    Why don't you try Central Asians instead, which is actually halfway plausible?

    Asking a few questions is verboten at this blogsite, or what? Noone has currently answered this elementary question yet, that I brought up in comment #63 that would go a long way in answering the questions posed:

    I find it difficult to find any hardcore statistics that break down the ethnic composition of the Far East? Most commentrary alludes to the fact that its majority is of Russian/Ukrainian mixture. But how much exactly?

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    Asking a few questions is verboten at this blogsite, or what?
     
    So far your response to Melanf's information has been to insist that:

    -No, if they are not there legally then they must be there illegally

    -Chinese and Koreans don't send their children to school (really?)


    I find it difficult to find any hardcore statistics that break down the ethnic composition of the Far East? Most commentrary alludes to the fact that its majority is of Russian/Ukrainian mixture. But how much exactly?
     
    Karlin has posted a couple of times showing Russian ethnic identification in every Russian region.
  115. @Guillaume Tell
    TF

    I value your comments.

    Let me therefore ask you 4 questions.

    1. Do you believe that the average temperature on earth has risen over the past 40 years in sharp contrast with respect to say the previous 40 years?

    2. If the answer is yes, do you think the primary cause is human activity?

    3. If the answer is yes to 1 do you think that the set of measure propounded by the COP2x types can reverse the process?

    4. Independently — if the worse predictions made by the GIEC and similar bodies were to occur, would this necessarily be a bad thing?

    I answer as follows;
    1. Yes
    2, can’t decide — but leaning No
    3. A definitive No
    4. No. The climate has been warmer before in historical times and it was fine and dandy.

    What do YOU think?

    I answer, “I do not know” to all four questions. I don’t even know what COP2X and GIEC are.

    The AGW hypothesis makes inherent sense to me, but I’m deeply suspicious of the entities behind it. They’re the same people who have a long track of being wrong about almost everything and have inflicted and continue to inflict tremendous harm on our societies.

    The fact that many of them are also atomophobes strongly suggests ulterior motives. Lately there has been a massive upsurge in vegan propaganda. They’re now claiming that GHG emissions from cattle (methane) are devastating, and we must go vegan to save the planet.

    In the United States, which is the world’s second largest GHG emitter and has the world’s fourth largest cattle herd (though it would be third by cattle mass), cattle GHG emissions are only 2% of all our GHG emissions. And that’s when you deliberately ignore how cattle contribute to returning carbon to the soil. It also ignores that methane in the atmosphere deteriorates in a decade (unlike with CO2, as I understand).

    So what is the real agenda exactly? Who is behind this, and what are their motivations?

    Lastly, Joyeux Noel and Bonne Annee!

    https://www.artcurial.com/sites/default/files/styles/840_width/public/lots-images/2017-09-30-21/3006_10560763_0.jpg?itok=O_W4jKZZ

    • Replies: @Guillaume Tell
    Dear TF

    BONNE ET HEUREUSE ANNÉE 2019 !

    Where did you find this series of charming Tintin cards? That’s also by comparing the quality of those drawings with that of contemporary comic strips that one can measure how degenerate the francophone world has become. There really isn’t much left that’s worth saving.

    I will be in southern France for the next few weeks. If I am not mistaken your father lives there? The landscape here is striking — a daily testimony to what almost 25 centuries of what the white man is capable of doing. Almost nothing in the landscape is really “natural”, every square foot of land has been patiently plowed, worked, reorganized, improved, over generations. The “villages perchés” of Provence are simply astounding.

    Now of course when you drive into the more urbanized areas, the dream pops like a pierced balloon, and is replaced by the nightmare of dreadfully horrible suburbia. The French appear to be especially good and building atrocious suburbs. It must be the influence of the post-WW2 communist architects, à la Le Corbusier (who, in all fairness, was... Suisse ;) ).

    Thank you for your responses regarding global warming. My apologies for having used the acronym GIEC, which is French for IPCC. Regarding the series of COPxx (COP21, COP24, etc.), it’s a series of globalist UN get-togethers that also leverage fear mongering about “climate change” to further the usual socialist, Masonic kind of goals.

    From your answers I see that you are even more nuanced than I am now of the opinion that the very persona of the people that promote and populate those organizations suffice to say that what they promote is at best wrong, and at worst malevolent.

    Where I am currently it’s an established fact that the weather was substantially warmer about 900 years ago and that did not cause a massive collapse. Quite the opposite in fact, as it’s at that time that the dark ages of the first middle age ended, and when begun the Romanesque era that produced what I consider to be the most perfect and final architectural form.

    Happy new year to everyone reading and commenting here. And thanks again to RU and AK for their hospitality.



    Tb
  116. @Mr. Hack
    No, of course not. I've in mind those that just live on the other side of the border, that have been trickling in for several centuries. Just how many?.....

    No, of course not. I’ve in mind those that just live on the other side of the border,

    The people on the other side of the Russia/China border are largely not ethnically Chinese. That border region is desert, mountains, steppe or taiga. The Chinese were farmers of river plains who did not populate the northern parts where they couldn’t grow rice or wheat. The north was inhabited by native nomadic peoples and their historical relation with the Chinese has been that either the Chinese subjugated them or they subjugated the Chinese.

    that have been trickling in for several centuries. Just how many?…..

    Essentially zero. Chinese have not been trickling into Siberia for centuries. This is a projection by Westernized people who’ve been brainwashed into thinking that migration is some inevitable law of nature and not an engineered policy. Illegal migrants flood Europe and America because significant factions in Western elites want that to happen. Russia hasn’t had elites that would have wanted mass migration of Chinese into Siberia so it hasn’t been allowed.

    Similarly, despite the wealth difference, there is essentially zero illegal Russian migration to Finland. Neither government wants that so it isn’t allowed to happen. China and Russia have good relations and neighboring governments with good relations can control migration very easily if they want to.

    Siberia is over 90 % Russian and the cities are even more Russian. Siberian cities are much more white than most European cities now. Native Siberian ethnic groups have no relation to the Chinese and no history of pro-Chinese sentiment. You have this bizarre idea that northern Asian ethnic groups would automatically side with China against Russia because they’re all “Asiatics”. Because Asiatics all favor each out of racial solidarity, right? Just look at any internet forum with Asian users and see the love between China, Japan and Korea.

    Most northern Asian ethnic groups are pro-Russian because they fear China and when China was weak they were pro-Russian because they feared Japan. The one independent Siberian ethnostate, Mongolia, is pro-Russian because they fear China. There are exceptions like Tuva where the locals engaged in some violence and rebellion against Russians after the fall of the USSR but even there the local nationalists are not pro-Chinese and China has no reason to support them.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack

    You have this bizarre idea that northern Asian ethnic groups would automatically side with China against Russia because they’re all “Asiatics”. Because Asiatics all favor each out of racial solidarity, right?
     
    Wrong. It's you actually who holds this bizarre belief about my views, that are totally unsubstantiated. I'm a dilettante when it comes to being a student of the history of the Russian Far East and Siberia. My total book count related to the subject matter is reading John J Stephan's seminal book on the subject matter 'The Russian Far East'. It's one of the few English language books that I've encountered that provides a rather complete and in-depth look of the area. The author does indeed review the history of Asian immigration patterns into this area, and leaves one with the impression, after reading the book, that the Asian imprint is larger than most (at least as represented here) tend to believe. I've been open minded and haven't been very overbearing with my opinions, as it's an area I know little about.
  117. @Guillaume Tell
    TF

    I value your comments.

    Let me therefore ask you 4 questions.

    1. Do you believe that the average temperature on earth has risen over the past 40 years in sharp contrast with respect to say the previous 40 years?

    2. If the answer is yes, do you think the primary cause is human activity?

    3. If the answer is yes to 1 do you think that the set of measure propounded by the COP2x types can reverse the process?

    4. Independently — if the worse predictions made by the GIEC and similar bodies were to occur, would this necessarily be a bad thing?

    I answer as follows;
    1. Yes
    2, can’t decide — but leaning No
    3. A definitive No
    4. No. The climate has been warmer before in historical times and it was fine and dandy.

    What do YOU think?

    Pournelle used to have a pretty good comeback: the Vikings had farms in Greenland that are emerging from the ice.

  118. @Guillaume Tell
    TF

    I value your comments.

    Let me therefore ask you 4 questions.

    1. Do you believe that the average temperature on earth has risen over the past 40 years in sharp contrast with respect to say the previous 40 years?

    2. If the answer is yes, do you think the primary cause is human activity?

    3. If the answer is yes to 1 do you think that the set of measure propounded by the COP2x types can reverse the process?

    4. Independently — if the worse predictions made by the GIEC and similar bodies were to occur, would this necessarily be a bad thing?

    I answer as follows;
    1. Yes
    2, can’t decide — but leaning No
    3. A definitive No
    4. No. The climate has been warmer before in historical times and it was fine and dandy.

    What do YOU think?

    The climate has been warmer before in historical times

    When? I know average temperatures were higher in Europe during the high middle ages, but my understanding is that such climate change was localized to specific regions during historical times, whereas the present change is global, and also more drastic than anything known from history.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    The holiday cottage my parents used in the 1950's was built into a shingle bank (storm beach) next to the sea. It had been there since at least 1850. The biggest waves didn't quite break over the bank and flood the cottage, except for once storm in 1952. They did again in 2015. Two storms in 60 years does not make for serious sea level rise. Nearby, the rivers have silted up, cutting medieval castles off from the sea faster than any proposed sea level rise. Wasn't Vanuatu supposed to be in trouble by now.

    In Medieval times in Wales, what are now mountain tops turned into desert by rain were productive farms.

    The point about sea level is that in consolidates global warning concerns into one measure.
  119. @Jaakko Raipala

    No, of course not. I’ve in mind those that just live on the other side of the border,
     
    The people on the other side of the Russia/China border are largely not ethnically Chinese. That border region is desert, mountains, steppe or taiga. The Chinese were farmers of river plains who did not populate the northern parts where they couldn't grow rice or wheat. The north was inhabited by native nomadic peoples and their historical relation with the Chinese has been that either the Chinese subjugated them or they subjugated the Chinese.

    that have been trickling in for several centuries. Just how many?…..
     
    Essentially zero. Chinese have not been trickling into Siberia for centuries. This is a projection by Westernized people who've been brainwashed into thinking that migration is some inevitable law of nature and not an engineered policy. Illegal migrants flood Europe and America because significant factions in Western elites want that to happen. Russia hasn't had elites that would have wanted mass migration of Chinese into Siberia so it hasn't been allowed.

    Similarly, despite the wealth difference, there is essentially zero illegal Russian migration to Finland. Neither government wants that so it isn't allowed to happen. China and Russia have good relations and neighboring governments with good relations can control migration very easily if they want to.

    Siberia is over 90 % Russian and the cities are even more Russian. Siberian cities are much more white than most European cities now. Native Siberian ethnic groups have no relation to the Chinese and no history of pro-Chinese sentiment. You have this bizarre idea that northern Asian ethnic groups would automatically side with China against Russia because they're all "Asiatics". Because Asiatics all favor each out of racial solidarity, right? Just look at any internet forum with Asian users and see the love between China, Japan and Korea.

    Most northern Asian ethnic groups are pro-Russian because they fear China and when China was weak they were pro-Russian because they feared Japan. The one independent Siberian ethnostate, Mongolia, is pro-Russian because they fear China. There are exceptions like Tuva where the locals engaged in some violence and rebellion against Russians after the fall of the USSR but even there the local nationalists are not pro-Chinese and China has no reason to support them.

    You have this bizarre idea that northern Asian ethnic groups would automatically side with China against Russia because they’re all “Asiatics”. Because Asiatics all favor each out of racial solidarity, right?

    Wrong. It’s you actually who holds this bizarre belief about my views, that are totally unsubstantiated. I’m a dilettante when it comes to being a student of the history of the Russian Far East and Siberia. My total book count related to the subject matter is reading John J Stephan’s seminal book on the subject matter ‘The Russian Far East’. It’s one of the few English language books that I’ve encountered that provides a rather complete and in-depth look of the area. The author does indeed review the history of Asian immigration patterns into this area, and leaves one with the impression, after reading the book, that the Asian imprint is larger than most (at least as represented here) tend to believe. I’ve been open minded and haven’t been very overbearing with my opinions, as it’s an area I know little about.

  120. @AnonFromTN
    Well, I know one half-Kazakh half-German girl (nice and intelligent), but she lives and works in the US. BTW, she speaks Russian fluently (can’t check her Kazakh, but that language has too few words for the developed society, anyway), knows Russian classical music, and has fairly good English.

    AnonFromTN – it sounds like you meet the same people.

    I met people from Kazakhstan also with “German” nationality (allowing German passport).

    Lol I was wondering if maybe there is some factory in Kazakhstan that falsifies your certificates with German nationality so you can get a German passport, and whether I can contact this place.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    The girl I met (she works in collaborator’s lab, so I met her while visiting for a talk at their place) actually looks half Kazakh and half European. You can’t say whether the European half is German, Russian, British, Ukrainian, or whatever. It is certainly not French: she is tall.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if there were outfits in Kazakhstan producing fake proofs of German ancestry. At least in Ukraine there is a cottage industry producing fake proofs of Polish ancestry, charging from $2,000 to 10,000 per client (depending on their greed and client’s stupidity), just to get Karta Polyaka (Polish card), which is not even Polish citizenship, but a chance to acquire it.

    I know that at the height of Perestroika in late USSR there were rabbis who for $100 would write you a letter stating that you were born of Jewish mother personally known to him, which was back then required to get state freebies in Israel. I wonder whether Asians used their services, too, or if they didn’t, was it because of ridiculousness or they were just fastidious.
    If you are in Kazakhstan, ask around.
    , @Philip Owen
    The Germans in Kazakhstan came from Saratov. There were divisions between Catholics and Protestants.
  121. @Mr. Hack
    Asking a few questions is verboten at this blogsite, or what? Noone has currently answered this elementary question yet, that I brought up in comment #63 that would go a long way in answering the questions posed:

    I find it difficult to find any hardcore statistics that break down the ethnic composition of the Far East? Most commentrary alludes to the fact that its majority is of Russian/Ukrainian mixture. But how much exactly?
     

    Asking a few questions is verboten at this blogsite, or what?

    So far your response to Melanf’s information has been to insist that:

    -No, if they are not there legally then they must be there illegally

    -Chinese and Koreans don’t send their children to school (really?)

    I find it difficult to find any hardcore statistics that break down the ethnic composition of the Far East? Most commentrary alludes to the fact that its majority is of Russian/Ukrainian mixture. But how much exactly?

    Karlin has posted a couple of times showing Russian ethnic identification in every Russian region.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack

    -No, if they are not there legally then they must be there illegally
     
    I've suggested that this might be an actuality (I still hold this to be true). Do you really think or know that there aren't any Asians living in these areas without proper documentation?

    -Chinese and Koreans don’t send their children to school (really?)
     
    Again, this was just a suggestion. Hard working Chinese or Koreans that live in or near the Primorye area may indeed choose to homeschool their children, or have developed their own schools. To think that there is no Chinese presence in the Primorye region (and others too) is pure nonsense. This Wikipedia article also presents some useful information about the Chinese presence in the Far East, also casting much doubt on the official figures used by Russian government officials. The bottom line seems to be that nobody really knows how many actual Asians (including the Far East's Chinese and Korean nationals) actually live in Russia, including Karlin):

    Zhanna Zayonchkovskaya, the chief of the Population Migration Laboratory of the National Economic Forecasting Institute of Russian Academy of Sciences, estimated in 2004 the total number of Chinese present in Russia at any given point (as resident or visitors) at about 400,000 persons, much smaller than ill-educated guess of 2 million that had been given by Izvestiya.[1] If popular media estimates such as the 2003 figure of 3.26 million were correct, Chinese would form Russia's fourth largest ethnic group after the Russians (104.1 million), Tatars (7.2 million), and Ukrainians (5.1 million).[27]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_Chinese_in_Russia
  122. @German_reader
    A lot of what you write is unfortunately correct. My point was that these demographic changes aren't the result of unstoppable natural processes, but the result of political decisions - which even today could, at least to some extent, be reversed. But you're right that Western Europe's political class seems rather intent on doubling down on their mass immigration project (this became very clear this year in Germany with the UN global compact for migration being pushed through by Merkel's government against all opposition). There won't be a pleasant end to this either way (though I know which outcome I prefer).

    …political decisions – which even today could, at least to some extent, be reversed.

    They could be reversed, but that wouldn’t necessarily fix the problem. I have struggled with how this could work and it is very messy – in a free society one cannot tell others who to marry, and all else with chain migration follows from that. A first step would be to admit that those political decisions (like in 2015) didn’t work and were wrong. That is no longer done in the West – nobody is ever held accountable for anything.

    The lack of accountability leads to Merkel doubling down and pushing the UN migration compact. It reminds of an exchange my dad had with a true commie believer in the 80’s:

    you lowered the price of bread and now peasants are buying it up to feed their chickens – it is wasteful‘ –

    great, we should abolish money altogether…

    How does one argue with an ideologue? The only remedy is to hold them accountable, you know the proverbial skin in the game.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    You can absolutely tell others who to marry. 44 American states once had such laws.

    Denmark already has certain laws about spouse importation.

    And then there's the fact that there's no requirement to keep society free at all. Or free for all parts of it. Decades, centuries for some societies, of liberalism has rotted our brains into thinking that all people must have the same rights. That isn't so.

    How does one argue with an "ideologue"? After everything that has happened, I'd suggest with lead.
    , @German_reader

    in a free society one cannot tell others who to marry
     
    That's not really a problem, intermarriage between the native population and really problematic immigrant groups is rather low anyway. You wouldn't even need laws to discourage it, just run a campaign based on the real cases where a relationship with some vibrant foreigner had fatal consequences for a naive teenage girl.
    The practice of importing wives from the old country which is common among Muslims could also be blocked (iirc it was quite difficult in Britain before 1997, one of the first actions of the evil Labor party was to make it much easier) by hard language tests, deliberately obstructive bureaucracy etc.

    The lack of accountability leads to Merkel doubling down and pushing the UN migration compact.
     
    Unfortunately the vast majority of my countrymen failed to do their patriotic duty in the election of 2017, and I despise them for that. After what Merkel's government had done, there was no excuse not to vote AfD.
    And given that AfD seems stuck at about 15%, the establishment feels emboldened to push ahead with their open borders agenda...which is a problem for all of Europe, since Merkel wants to make those policies binding for everyone (clearly the goal of that UN compact).
  123. @Beckow

    ...political decisions – which even today could, at least to some extent, be reversed.
     
    They could be reversed, but that wouldn't necessarily fix the problem. I have struggled with how this could work and it is very messy - in a free society one cannot tell others who to marry, and all else with chain migration follows from that. A first step would be to admit that those political decisions (like in 2015) didn't work and were wrong. That is no longer done in the West - nobody is ever held accountable for anything.

    The lack of accountability leads to Merkel doubling down and pushing the UN migration compact. It reminds of an exchange my dad had with a true commie believer in the 80's:

    'you lowered the price of bread and now peasants are buying it up to feed their chickens - it is wasteful' -

    'great, we should abolish money altogether...'

    How does one argue with an ideologue? The only remedy is to hold them accountable, you know the proverbial skin in the game.

    You can absolutely tell others who to marry. 44 American states once had such laws.

    Denmark already has certain laws about spouse importation.

    And then there’s the fact that there’s no requirement to keep society free at all. Or free for all parts of it. Decades, centuries for some societies, of liberalism has rotted our brains into thinking that all people must have the same rights. That isn’t so.

    How does one argue with an “ideologue”? After everything that has happened, I’d suggest with lead.

    • Replies: @Beckow

    ...You can absolutely tell others who to marry
     
    I have tried, but usually they don't marry me.

    liberalism has rotted our brains into thinking that all people must have the same rights.
     
    This is a critical fallacy that started around 18th century and has totally undermined normal thinking. We are heading towards a bizarre flat world with all being equal and nothing working. That f...ing Voltaire...
  124. @Beckow

    ...political decisions – which even today could, at least to some extent, be reversed.
     
    They could be reversed, but that wouldn't necessarily fix the problem. I have struggled with how this could work and it is very messy - in a free society one cannot tell others who to marry, and all else with chain migration follows from that. A first step would be to admit that those political decisions (like in 2015) didn't work and were wrong. That is no longer done in the West - nobody is ever held accountable for anything.

    The lack of accountability leads to Merkel doubling down and pushing the UN migration compact. It reminds of an exchange my dad had with a true commie believer in the 80's:

    'you lowered the price of bread and now peasants are buying it up to feed their chickens - it is wasteful' -

    'great, we should abolish money altogether...'

    How does one argue with an ideologue? The only remedy is to hold them accountable, you know the proverbial skin in the game.

    in a free society one cannot tell others who to marry

    That’s not really a problem, intermarriage between the native population and really problematic immigrant groups is rather low anyway. You wouldn’t even need laws to discourage it, just run a campaign based on the real cases where a relationship with some vibrant foreigner had fatal consequences for a naive teenage girl.
    The practice of importing wives from the old country which is common among Muslims could also be blocked (iirc it was quite difficult in Britain before 1997, one of the first actions of the evil Labor party was to make it much easier) by hard language tests, deliberately obstructive bureaucracy etc.

    The lack of accountability leads to Merkel doubling down and pushing the UN migration compact.

    Unfortunately the vast majority of my countrymen failed to do their patriotic duty in the election of 2017, and I despise them for that. After what Merkel’s government had done, there was no excuse not to vote AfD.
    And given that AfD seems stuck at about 15%, the establishment feels emboldened to push ahead with their open borders agenda…which is a problem for all of Europe, since Merkel wants to make those policies binding for everyone (clearly the goal of that UN compact).

    • Replies: @byrresheim
    One can only weep.
    , @Beckow

    ...importing wives could also be blocked
     
    Slowed down yes, blocked, I wouldn't be so sure. The family reunification racket is hard to beat - that's all they care about, and the native people are seldom focused on it. My overall point is that once there is a critical mass - let's say 5-10 million - it becomes very difficult to control. And 5-10 million are true for UK, France, Germany and proportionally also for Sweden and Benelux.

    In the last 18 months two key countries, Germany and France, in effect voted for open borders. To some extent Netherlands and Sweden also did. This after 2015. US voted for open borders Democrats in Congress. It is not only the elites that are 'doubling down'...this is getting quantitatively different.

    , @songbird
    One of the illusions of democracy is that it very reactive to short-term history. The great mass of voters vote out of habit. When change comes, it is generally slow, and not timely. If the politics of Europe ever change, it will be from the older generations dying off. But that is also a problem because the younger age cohorts are full of alien partisans.

    I do miss Talha here because in answer to this existential problem, he would always say something very amusing, like - to paraphrase a bit - organize a grassroots effort, going door to door in the newly Africanized areas of Europe, to convince the blacks to deport themselves back to their thirdworld hell-holes, where 1/3 of the people have HIV.
  125. @Hyperborean

    Asking a few questions is verboten at this blogsite, or what?
     
    So far your response to Melanf's information has been to insist that:

    -No, if they are not there legally then they must be there illegally

    -Chinese and Koreans don't send their children to school (really?)


    I find it difficult to find any hardcore statistics that break down the ethnic composition of the Far East? Most commentrary alludes to the fact that its majority is of Russian/Ukrainian mixture. But how much exactly?
     
    Karlin has posted a couple of times showing Russian ethnic identification in every Russian region.

    -No, if they are not there legally then they must be there illegally

    I’ve suggested that this might be an actuality (I still hold this to be true). Do you really think or know that there aren’t any Asians living in these areas without proper documentation?

    -Chinese and Koreans don’t send their children to school (really?)

    Again, this was just a suggestion. Hard working Chinese or Koreans that live in or near the Primorye area may indeed choose to homeschool their children, or have developed their own schools. To think that there is no Chinese presence in the Primorye region (and others too) is pure nonsense. This Wikipedia article also presents some useful information about the Chinese presence in the Far East, also casting much doubt on the official figures used by Russian government officials. The bottom line seems to be that nobody really knows how many actual Asians (including the Far East’s Chinese and Korean nationals) actually live in Russia, including Karlin):

    Zhanna Zayonchkovskaya, the chief of the Population Migration Laboratory of the National Economic Forecasting Institute of Russian Academy of Sciences, estimated in 2004 the total number of Chinese present in Russia at any given point (as resident or visitors) at about 400,000 persons, much smaller than ill-educated guess of 2 million that had been given by Izvestiya.[1] If popular media estimates such as the 2003 figure of 3.26 million were correct, Chinese would form Russia’s fourth largest ethnic group after the Russians (104.1 million), Tatars (7.2 million), and Ukrainians (5.1 million).[27]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_Chinese_in_Russia

    • Replies: @German_reader

    Hard working Chinese or Koreans that live in or near the Primorye area may indeed choose to homeschool their children
     
    Is homeschooling common in Russia? Is it even allowed?
    , @Hyperborean

    Do you really think or know that there aren’t any Asians living in these areas without proper documentation?
     
    Well, maybe North Koreans do.


    Hard working Chinese or Koreans that live in or near the Primorye area may indeed choose to homeschool their children, or have developed their own schools.
     
    Homeschooling: Chinese work too long for that (both the mother and father). I often see their children who are too young for school with their grandparents without any parents in sight.

    If they have their own schools to any significant degree, why don’t you list them?

    The bottom line seems to be that nobody really knows how many actual Asians (including the Far East’s Chinese and Korean nationals) actually live in Russia, including Karlin)

     

    If you were talking about Moscow and SPB, it would make more sense, but there is little reason to think that the Far East is being inundated.

    The Russian Far East and Manchuria* are both economically depressed and depopulating. Any Chinese settling down will go to Beijing or, if they go to Russia, will go to Moscow or Saint Petersburg.

    Most Koreans who come to Russia are from Central Asia and are Stalin's russified victims of deportations, not people from South Korea. They also do not settle in the Far East.

    *A bit irrelevant, but one can actually buy proper European-style bread and sausage in Harbin

    This Wikipedia article also presents some useful information
     
    Bearing in mind that the information in the article is dated and China is richer than a decade/a decade and a half ago.

    Temporary migration and shuttle trade conducted by Chinese merchants are most prevalent in Russia's Far Eastern Federal District, but most go back and forth across the border without settling down in Russia; the Chinese community in Moscow has a higher proportion of long-term residents.
     

    The community in Moscow was believed to have been the largest as of 2002, numbering 20,000 to 25,000 people; Chinese community leaders give even higher estimates in the 30,000 to 40,000 range.
     

    In the Russian Far East, the major urban centres of Chinese settlement include Khabarovsk, Vladivostok, and Ussuriysk, though in 2002, the total combined Chinese population in those three cities is less than that in Moscow.[30] In Ussuriysk, a large proportion of the Chinese migrants working as traders are joseonjok (Chinese citizens of Korean descent); their total population there is estimated at perhaps two or three thousand people.[31]
     

    Between 1988 and 2003, 133,000 contract workers from Heilongjiang went to work in Russia; most were employed in construction and agriculture.
     
    So 15 years and only 133,000 Chinese guest workers. Meanwhile millions of Central Asians are in Russia.

    Aside from resident contract workers, 1.1 million Chinese also went to the border areas of the Russian Far East on tourist visas from 1997 to 2002.[25] Despite the perception that many remain illegally in Russia, since 1996, over 97% of Chinese arriving on tourist visas departed on time by the same border crossing through which they entered Russia, and many of the remaining 3% either departed by other border crossings, or were arrested and deported.[28][30]
     

    Russian newspapers began to publish speculation that between two and five million Chinese migrants actually resided in the Russian Far East, and predicted that half of the population of Russia would be Chinese by 2050.[?!]
     
    If Chinese really made up from a quarter to half of the Far East's population since more than decade ago like these hyperbolic newspapers claim, why do not locals notice this pressure?

    The identitarian concern against the Chinese influx is described as less prevalent in the east, where most of the Chinese shuttle trade is actually occurring, than in European Russia.
     
  126. @Mr. Hack

    -No, if they are not there legally then they must be there illegally
     
    I've suggested that this might be an actuality (I still hold this to be true). Do you really think or know that there aren't any Asians living in these areas without proper documentation?

    -Chinese and Koreans don’t send their children to school (really?)
     
    Again, this was just a suggestion. Hard working Chinese or Koreans that live in or near the Primorye area may indeed choose to homeschool their children, or have developed their own schools. To think that there is no Chinese presence in the Primorye region (and others too) is pure nonsense. This Wikipedia article also presents some useful information about the Chinese presence in the Far East, also casting much doubt on the official figures used by Russian government officials. The bottom line seems to be that nobody really knows how many actual Asians (including the Far East's Chinese and Korean nationals) actually live in Russia, including Karlin):

    Zhanna Zayonchkovskaya, the chief of the Population Migration Laboratory of the National Economic Forecasting Institute of Russian Academy of Sciences, estimated in 2004 the total number of Chinese present in Russia at any given point (as resident or visitors) at about 400,000 persons, much smaller than ill-educated guess of 2 million that had been given by Izvestiya.[1] If popular media estimates such as the 2003 figure of 3.26 million were correct, Chinese would form Russia's fourth largest ethnic group after the Russians (104.1 million), Tatars (7.2 million), and Ukrainians (5.1 million).[27]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_Chinese_in_Russia

    Hard working Chinese or Koreans that live in or near the Primorye area may indeed choose to homeschool their children

    Is homeschooling common in Russia? Is it even allowed?

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
    Allowed, becoming more popular, bur still much less common than in the US, where it is still practiced by a small minority.
  127. @Felix Keverich
    I think it's worth mentioning that Bershidsky is a Jew, a liberal Russian Jew, who lives in Germany. And this is the kind of country he wants.

    This is not what anyone in Russia wants. This is not who we are! :)

    This is not who we are in Germany either.

    At least some of us.

    However, it seems as if nobody were asking us. Democracy, you know …

  128. @German_reader

    in a free society one cannot tell others who to marry
     
    That's not really a problem, intermarriage between the native population and really problematic immigrant groups is rather low anyway. You wouldn't even need laws to discourage it, just run a campaign based on the real cases where a relationship with some vibrant foreigner had fatal consequences for a naive teenage girl.
    The practice of importing wives from the old country which is common among Muslims could also be blocked (iirc it was quite difficult in Britain before 1997, one of the first actions of the evil Labor party was to make it much easier) by hard language tests, deliberately obstructive bureaucracy etc.

    The lack of accountability leads to Merkel doubling down and pushing the UN migration compact.
     
    Unfortunately the vast majority of my countrymen failed to do their patriotic duty in the election of 2017, and I despise them for that. After what Merkel's government had done, there was no excuse not to vote AfD.
    And given that AfD seems stuck at about 15%, the establishment feels emboldened to push ahead with their open borders agenda...which is a problem for all of Europe, since Merkel wants to make those policies binding for everyone (clearly the goal of that UN compact).

    One can only weep.

  129. @reiner Tor
    I’ve seen him called a Kremlin stooge in a Facebook comment thread.

    That may be so, but then sickos seem to be encouraged on fb these days.

  130. @Thorfinnsson
    You can absolutely tell others who to marry. 44 American states once had such laws.

    Denmark already has certain laws about spouse importation.

    And then there's the fact that there's no requirement to keep society free at all. Or free for all parts of it. Decades, centuries for some societies, of liberalism has rotted our brains into thinking that all people must have the same rights. That isn't so.

    How does one argue with an "ideologue"? After everything that has happened, I'd suggest with lead.

    …You can absolutely tell others who to marry

    I have tried, but usually they don’t marry me.

    liberalism has rotted our brains into thinking that all people must have the same rights.

    This is a critical fallacy that started around 18th century and has totally undermined normal thinking. We are heading towards a bizarre flat world with all being equal and nothing working. That f…ing Voltaire…

  131. @German_reader

    Hard working Chinese or Koreans that live in or near the Primorye area may indeed choose to homeschool their children
     
    Is homeschooling common in Russia? Is it even allowed?

    Allowed, becoming more popular, bur still much less common than in the US, where it is still practiced by a small minority.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    I checked on Wikipedia, according to them there are 50 000-100 000 (not terribly accurate numbers) homeschooled children in Russia.
    I suppose though that's mostly due to some religious subcultures, not Asian immigrants.
    Surprised me that it's allowed in Russia.
  132. @Dmitry
    AnonFromTN - it sounds like you meet the same people.

    I met people from Kazakhstan also with "German" nationality (allowing German passport).

    Lol I was wondering if maybe there is some factory in Kazakhstan that falsifies your certificates with German nationality so you can get a German passport, and whether I can contact this place.

    The girl I met (she works in collaborator’s lab, so I met her while visiting for a talk at their place) actually looks half Kazakh and half European. You can’t say whether the European half is German, Russian, British, Ukrainian, or whatever. It is certainly not French: she is tall.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if there were outfits in Kazakhstan producing fake proofs of German ancestry. At least in Ukraine there is a cottage industry producing fake proofs of Polish ancestry, charging from $2,000 to 10,000 per client (depending on their greed and client’s stupidity), just to get Karta Polyaka (Polish card), which is not even Polish citizenship, but a chance to acquire it.

    I know that at the height of Perestroika in late USSR there were rabbis who for $100 would write you a letter stating that you were born of Jewish mother personally known to him, which was back then required to get state freebies in Israel. I wonder whether Asians used their services, too, or if they didn’t, was it because of ridiculousness or they were just fastidious.
    If you are in Kazakhstan, ask around.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    In 1945-46 the 'witness' of two Jews was sufficient to ascertain that some Jews (mostly returning from beyond the Urals) were in the camps where they 'knew him personally' and getting the 'freebies' from UNRRA (United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Administration).
    , @Dmitry
    Even if you never wanted to live in Germany, it is an extreme advantage for your life to attain a German passport.

    Just as a tourist, imagine how much money you will save in not buying visas, over a whole life?

    And of course, for young people - you could study for free in Stockholm University, or work next week in Paris (all without applying for any visa).

    Even tuition fee for somewhere like a British university (University of Cambridge), is more than twice cheaper if you have an EU country passport.

    So, currently, in University of Cambridge, it is £33,342 fee per year for MPhil for non-EU student in e.g. standard price course for them.

    But all you need is an EU passport, and the price is only £12,255.

    https://www.graduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses/directory/egegmpmsl/finance
    How unfair is this system?

  133. @The Big Red Scary
    Allowed, becoming more popular, bur still much less common than in the US, where it is still practiced by a small minority.

    I checked on Wikipedia, according to them there are 50 000-100 000 (not terribly accurate numbers) homeschooled children in Russia.
    I suppose though that’s mostly due to some religious subcultures, not Asian immigrants.
    Surprised me that it’s allowed in Russia.

    • Replies: @songbird
    To me, it is strange it is not allowed in Germany. As much as Germany has a pathology of guilt, in actuality, its government has a lot of practices that would frighten any traditional American. The state effectively has no real contrition. It thrusts its own guilt on its people to grow its power.
    , @Swarthy Greek
    I think that most home schooled kids must be Old believers.
    , @The Big Red Scary

    I suppose though that’s mostly due to some religious subcultures, not Asian immigrants.
     
    I have heard that some people in Russia educate their children at home to protect their kids from the excesses of Russian liberalism (tee-hee, quoth she), but I don't know if that is representative. On the other hand, I personally know about thirty families on "semenoye" (it's called "family" education in Russia), and while a few of them are religious (including my family), none of them seem to have religion as a motivation for family education. I know some Jews but haven't yet met an Asian on family education. Mostly it seems to appeal to hippies and nerds, but maybe that says more about my circles than about the average family.

    There is an online popular journal on family education, and the editors organize a conference in Moscow once a year, which is fairly mainstream (insofar as homeschooling can be mainstream) and inclusive. The journal is here:

    https://semeynoe.com/

    In principle, you can even get the government to pay you for educating your own children, but nobody I know has tried to do that, preferring to fly under the radar.
    , @melanf

    I checked on Wikipedia, according to them there are 50 000-100 000 (not terribly accurate numbers) homeschooled children in Russia.
    I suppose though that’s mostly due to some religious subcultures, not Asian immigrants.
    Surprised me that it’s allowed in Russia.
     
    Some children just live in small settlements too far from school. In most other cases, parents believe that in the school children are taught bad/they don't want their children to communicate at school with bullies.
    , @MarkinPNW
    Well, the Russian Faith website, which promotes the Russian Orthodox faith, has featured articles about families moving to Russia from the west specifically, in part, at least, to be able to homeschool their children "in the Faith".
  134. @Thorfinnsson
    Total primary energy consumption in Europe was roughly the same figure in 2016 as it was in 1988.

    1988: 76,677 quadrillion BTU

    2016: 79,661 quadrillion BTU

    Natural gas share of that (24%) increased but reached its current level by the end of the 20th century.

    See for yourself from the US government's excellent Energy Information Agency: https://www.eia.gov/beta/international/data/browser/

    Nordstream 2 was planned on the assumption that natural gas consumption in Europe would be 50% higher today than it is.

    While Russia is a low-cost producer ideally situated to supply Europe with natural gas, Europe doesn't need more energy.

    An increase in exports to Europe would require gaining marketshare and/or a European shift in its energy mix.

    The former could happen owing to declining production in the North Sea. There will however be competition from the Gulf, LNG (irrational but when did that ever stop anyone?), energy storage, and coal. There is also a possibility of fracking taking off in Europe.

    The latter could happen if Europe takes its religious fervor regarding climate change seriously. But the Euros aren't serious. Otherwise the Germans wouldn't have shut down their nuclear power sector nor would their brown coal production figures be crushing post-reunification records.

    Bershidsky doesn't know what he's talking about (surprise).

    That said, Bershidsky has a point on the migration issue. Russia's strategic rocket forces could play a powerful role in resolving the issue.

    Nordstream 2 was planned on the assumption that natural gas consumption in Europe would be 50% higher today than it is.

    While Russia is a low-cost producer ideally situated to supply Europe with natural gas, Europe doesn’t need more energy.

    But it does need more pipeline capacity. The point of NS is to ensure that gas exports via gas pipelines won’t be stopped by problems in Poland/Belarus/the Ukraine.

    But the Euros aren’t serious. Otherwise the Germans wouldn’t have shut down their nuclear power sector nor would their brown coal production figures be crushing post-reunification records.

    They are serious enough to sacrifice the German car industry for that, see reduction of CO2 emissions in the next decade.
    And what happened in this year in Hambach Forest shows that once nuclear power is gone, coal will be next.

    • Agree: German_reader
    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    I see no evidence that the German car industry is being sacrificed, though obviously "dieselgate" should've been swept under the rug. Or perhaps the responsible executives should've been hailed as heroes.

    I understand there are also homo-sexuals in Germany who wish to eliminate the famed unlimited speed on the Autobahn, but that won't kill the car industry.

    The German car industry is now gearing up to annihilate Tesla, but that's a different story.

    Phasing out black coal mining in Germany has been planned for decades, and for the same reason as in Great Britain--it's uneconomic.

    What shows that Germany isn't serious about climate change is shutting down nuclear power, the best form of of clean power. This led to a sharp increase in coal consumption, and perversely brown coal consumption which is far dirtier. And Germany is set to keep mining coal until 2040.

    And in any case ending coal mining is irrelevant from a climate perspective if it is simply substituted with imported coal. Britain has been importing Australian coal ever since Thatcher crushed the miners (though a lot of the coal fleet has since been replaced by gas).
  135. @German_reader

    in a free society one cannot tell others who to marry
     
    That's not really a problem, intermarriage between the native population and really problematic immigrant groups is rather low anyway. You wouldn't even need laws to discourage it, just run a campaign based on the real cases where a relationship with some vibrant foreigner had fatal consequences for a naive teenage girl.
    The practice of importing wives from the old country which is common among Muslims could also be blocked (iirc it was quite difficult in Britain before 1997, one of the first actions of the evil Labor party was to make it much easier) by hard language tests, deliberately obstructive bureaucracy etc.

    The lack of accountability leads to Merkel doubling down and pushing the UN migration compact.
     
    Unfortunately the vast majority of my countrymen failed to do their patriotic duty in the election of 2017, and I despise them for that. After what Merkel's government had done, there was no excuse not to vote AfD.
    And given that AfD seems stuck at about 15%, the establishment feels emboldened to push ahead with their open borders agenda...which is a problem for all of Europe, since Merkel wants to make those policies binding for everyone (clearly the goal of that UN compact).

    …importing wives could also be blocked

    Slowed down yes, blocked, I wouldn’t be so sure. The family reunification racket is hard to beat – that’s all they care about, and the native people are seldom focused on it. My overall point is that once there is a critical mass – let’s say 5-10 million – it becomes very difficult to control. And 5-10 million are true for UK, France, Germany and proportionally also for Sweden and Benelux.

    In the last 18 months two key countries, Germany and France, in effect voted for open borders. To some extent Netherlands and Sweden also did. This after 2015. US voted for open borders Democrats in Congress. It is not only the elites that are ‘doubling down’…this is getting quantitatively different.

  136. @German_reader

    in a free society one cannot tell others who to marry
     
    That's not really a problem, intermarriage between the native population and really problematic immigrant groups is rather low anyway. You wouldn't even need laws to discourage it, just run a campaign based on the real cases where a relationship with some vibrant foreigner had fatal consequences for a naive teenage girl.
    The practice of importing wives from the old country which is common among Muslims could also be blocked (iirc it was quite difficult in Britain before 1997, one of the first actions of the evil Labor party was to make it much easier) by hard language tests, deliberately obstructive bureaucracy etc.

    The lack of accountability leads to Merkel doubling down and pushing the UN migration compact.
     
    Unfortunately the vast majority of my countrymen failed to do their patriotic duty in the election of 2017, and I despise them for that. After what Merkel's government had done, there was no excuse not to vote AfD.
    And given that AfD seems stuck at about 15%, the establishment feels emboldened to push ahead with their open borders agenda...which is a problem for all of Europe, since Merkel wants to make those policies binding for everyone (clearly the goal of that UN compact).

    One of the illusions of democracy is that it very reactive to short-term history. The great mass of voters vote out of habit. When change comes, it is generally slow, and not timely. If the politics of Europe ever change, it will be from the older generations dying off. But that is also a problem because the younger age cohorts are full of alien partisans.

    I do miss Talha here because in answer to this existential problem, he would always say something very amusing, like – to paraphrase a bit – organize a grassroots effort, going door to door in the newly Africanized areas of Europe, to convince the blacks to deport themselves back to their thirdworld hell-holes, where 1/3 of the people have HIV.

    • Replies: @German_reader

    I do miss Talha here because in answer to this existential problem
     
    I think he's still around on other parts of Unz review, it's just our little community here he's tired of (can't blame him for that).
    I agree with you that time is the crucial factor, especially since a hostile establishment is continually creating new facts that will be extremely hard, if not impossible, to reverse. But Talha wasn't totally wrong that to some extent people shouldn't complain about being swamped by foreigners if they're so passive (even if he ignored the risks for political activism, like having one's house vandalized or one's car torched by Antifa, or social ostracism, possibly even job loss). I don't do much myself (just voting for AfD, the occasional meager donation, signing a petition against that damned global compact), but even that minimum effort, which should be possible for anyone, is more than the vast majority manages. They either don't care or they are even enthusiastic about the present state of affairs.
    People in Britain and the US at least have the excuse that the voting system makes change through new parties extremely difficult. But that doesn't apply to the same extent in many continental European countries. So it's hard not to feel that the majority gets what it deserves.
  137. @German_reader
    I checked on Wikipedia, according to them there are 50 000-100 000 (not terribly accurate numbers) homeschooled children in Russia.
    I suppose though that's mostly due to some religious subcultures, not Asian immigrants.
    Surprised me that it's allowed in Russia.

    To me, it is strange it is not allowed in Germany. As much as Germany has a pathology of guilt, in actuality, its government has a lot of practices that would frighten any traditional American. The state effectively has no real contrition. It thrusts its own guilt on its people to grow its power.

    • Replies: @German_reader

    To me, it is strange it is not allowed in Germany.
     
    Germany is authoritarian (more so under Merkel than it has been for a long time), and especially in West Germany too many still have a naive faith in the state (even though the state is increasingly the enemy in an anarchotyranny sense).
    It surprised me though that it's allowed in Russia, especially since there even was some talk (or more?) of reintroducing basic military training in schools in recent years. I suppose it was allowed as a liberal reaction to the Soviet system immediately after the fall of communism and just never got repealed.
  138. @songbird
    One of the illusions of democracy is that it very reactive to short-term history. The great mass of voters vote out of habit. When change comes, it is generally slow, and not timely. If the politics of Europe ever change, it will be from the older generations dying off. But that is also a problem because the younger age cohorts are full of alien partisans.

    I do miss Talha here because in answer to this existential problem, he would always say something very amusing, like - to paraphrase a bit - organize a grassroots effort, going door to door in the newly Africanized areas of Europe, to convince the blacks to deport themselves back to their thirdworld hell-holes, where 1/3 of the people have HIV.

    I do miss Talha here because in answer to this existential problem

    I think he’s still around on other parts of Unz review, it’s just our little community here he’s tired of (can’t blame him for that).
    I agree with you that time is the crucial factor, especially since a hostile establishment is continually creating new facts that will be extremely hard, if not impossible, to reverse. But Talha wasn’t totally wrong that to some extent people shouldn’t complain about being swamped by foreigners if they’re so passive (even if he ignored the risks for political activism, like having one’s house vandalized or one’s car torched by Antifa, or social ostracism, possibly even job loss). I don’t do much myself (just voting for AfD, the occasional meager donation, signing a petition against that damned global compact), but even that minimum effort, which should be possible for anyone, is more than the vast majority manages. They either don’t care or they are even enthusiastic about the present state of affairs.
    People in Britain and the US at least have the excuse that the voting system makes change through new parties extremely difficult. But that doesn’t apply to the same extent in many continental European countries. So it’s hard not to feel that the majority gets what it deserves.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    They either don’t care or they are even enthusiastic about the present state of affairs.
     
    I believe that the situation is heading towards a place where the important decisions will once again be decided by blood and iron.

    I think Guillaume Faye is right when he says that as long as people can enjoy their bourgeois comforts they will remain passive and continue to believe in a wonderful humanitarian fantasy.

    When I talk to most of my family and relatives (who are mostly socialists and communists), there seems to be a kind of lock. They are free to condemn American, NATO or Israeli hypocrisy and deception, but when it comes to certain topics it is as if they refuse to connect the dots.

    They might at times admit that, yes, Muslim countries are shitholes, knife-wielding 'young people' are frightening, burkas are ailenating, that particular oligarch possesses Israeli dual citizenship, etc.

    But then, despite knowing it intellectually, they still criticise any kind of racism, 'peasant-arse' backwards East Europeans, Anti-Semitism or complaints about Turks or Arabs.
  139. @songbird
    To me, it is strange it is not allowed in Germany. As much as Germany has a pathology of guilt, in actuality, its government has a lot of practices that would frighten any traditional American. The state effectively has no real contrition. It thrusts its own guilt on its people to grow its power.

    To me, it is strange it is not allowed in Germany.

    Germany is authoritarian (more so under Merkel than it has been for a long time), and especially in West Germany too many still have a naive faith in the state (even though the state is increasingly the enemy in an anarchotyranny sense).
    It surprised me though that it’s allowed in Russia, especially since there even was some talk (or more?) of reintroducing basic military training in schools in recent years. I suppose it was allowed as a liberal reaction to the Soviet system immediately after the fall of communism and just never got repealed.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    It surprised me though that it’s allowed in Russia, especially since there even was some talk (or more?) of reintroducing basic military training in schools in recent years.
     
    Do you mean Yunarmiya? Although I think officially it is on a voluntary basis.
  140. @Mr. Hack

    -No, if they are not there legally then they must be there illegally
     
    I've suggested that this might be an actuality (I still hold this to be true). Do you really think or know that there aren't any Asians living in these areas without proper documentation?

    -Chinese and Koreans don’t send their children to school (really?)
     
    Again, this was just a suggestion. Hard working Chinese or Koreans that live in or near the Primorye area may indeed choose to homeschool their children, or have developed their own schools. To think that there is no Chinese presence in the Primorye region (and others too) is pure nonsense. This Wikipedia article also presents some useful information about the Chinese presence in the Far East, also casting much doubt on the official figures used by Russian government officials. The bottom line seems to be that nobody really knows how many actual Asians (including the Far East's Chinese and Korean nationals) actually live in Russia, including Karlin):

    Zhanna Zayonchkovskaya, the chief of the Population Migration Laboratory of the National Economic Forecasting Institute of Russian Academy of Sciences, estimated in 2004 the total number of Chinese present in Russia at any given point (as resident or visitors) at about 400,000 persons, much smaller than ill-educated guess of 2 million that had been given by Izvestiya.[1] If popular media estimates such as the 2003 figure of 3.26 million were correct, Chinese would form Russia's fourth largest ethnic group after the Russians (104.1 million), Tatars (7.2 million), and Ukrainians (5.1 million).[27]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_Chinese_in_Russia

    Do you really think or know that there aren’t any Asians living in these areas without proper documentation?

    Well, maybe North Koreans do.

    Hard working Chinese or Koreans that live in or near the Primorye area may indeed choose to homeschool their children, or have developed their own schools.

    Homeschooling: Chinese work too long for that (both the mother and father). I often see their children who are too young for school with their grandparents without any parents in sight.

    If they have their own schools to any significant degree, why don’t you list them?

    The bottom line seems to be that nobody really knows how many actual Asians (including the Far East’s Chinese and Korean nationals) actually live in Russia, including Karlin)

    If you were talking about Moscow and SPB, it would make more sense, but there is little reason to think that the Far East is being inundated.

    The Russian Far East and Manchuria* are both economically depressed and depopulating. Any Chinese settling down will go to Beijing or, if they go to Russia, will go to Moscow or Saint Petersburg.

    Most Koreans who come to Russia are from Central Asia and are Stalin’s russified victims of deportations, not people from South Korea. They also do not settle in the Far East.

    *A bit irrelevant, but one can actually buy proper European-style bread and sausage in Harbin

    This Wikipedia article also presents some useful information

    Bearing in mind that the information in the article is dated and China is richer than a decade/a decade and a half ago.

    Temporary migration and shuttle trade conducted by Chinese merchants are most prevalent in Russia’s Far Eastern Federal District, but most go back and forth across the border without settling down in Russia; the Chinese community in Moscow has a higher proportion of long-term residents.

    The community in Moscow was believed to have been the largest as of 2002, numbering 20,000 to 25,000 people; Chinese community leaders give even higher estimates in the 30,000 to 40,000 range.

    In the Russian Far East, the major urban centres of Chinese settlement include Khabarovsk, Vladivostok, and Ussuriysk, though in 2002, the total combined Chinese population in those three cities is less than that in Moscow.[30] In Ussuriysk, a large proportion of the Chinese migrants working as traders are joseonjok (Chinese citizens of Korean descent); their total population there is estimated at perhaps two or three thousand people.[31]

    Between 1988 and 2003, 133,000 contract workers from Heilongjiang went to work in Russia; most were employed in construction and agriculture.

    So 15 years and only 133,000 Chinese guest workers. Meanwhile millions of Central Asians are in Russia.

    Aside from resident contract workers, 1.1 million Chinese also went to the border areas of the Russian Far East on tourist visas from 1997 to 2002.[25] Despite the perception that many remain illegally in Russia, since 1996, over 97% of Chinese arriving on tourist visas departed on time by the same border crossing through which they entered Russia, and many of the remaining 3% either departed by other border crossings, or were arrested and deported.[28][30]

    Russian newspapers began to publish speculation that between two and five million Chinese migrants actually resided in the Russian Far East, and predicted that half of the population of Russia would be Chinese by 2050.[?!]

    If Chinese really made up from a quarter to half of the Far East’s population since more than decade ago like these hyperbolic newspapers claim, why do not locals notice this pressure?

    The identitarian concern against the Chinese influx is described as less prevalent in the east, where most of the Chinese shuttle trade is actually occurring, than in European Russia.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    To be honest, I don’t think I should bother to argue this anymore.

    Clearly, just like with 'Buryat soldiers', this is one of your idées fixes, so it is probably just best to agree to disagree and leave it at that.
  141. @German_reader

    I do miss Talha here because in answer to this existential problem
     
    I think he's still around on other parts of Unz review, it's just our little community here he's tired of (can't blame him for that).
    I agree with you that time is the crucial factor, especially since a hostile establishment is continually creating new facts that will be extremely hard, if not impossible, to reverse. But Talha wasn't totally wrong that to some extent people shouldn't complain about being swamped by foreigners if they're so passive (even if he ignored the risks for political activism, like having one's house vandalized or one's car torched by Antifa, or social ostracism, possibly even job loss). I don't do much myself (just voting for AfD, the occasional meager donation, signing a petition against that damned global compact), but even that minimum effort, which should be possible for anyone, is more than the vast majority manages. They either don't care or they are even enthusiastic about the present state of affairs.
    People in Britain and the US at least have the excuse that the voting system makes change through new parties extremely difficult. But that doesn't apply to the same extent in many continental European countries. So it's hard not to feel that the majority gets what it deserves.

    They either don’t care or they are even enthusiastic about the present state of affairs.

    I believe that the situation is heading towards a place where the important decisions will once again be decided by blood and iron.

    I think Guillaume Faye is right when he says that as long as people can enjoy their bourgeois comforts they will remain passive and continue to believe in a wonderful humanitarian fantasy.

    When I talk to most of my family and relatives (who are mostly socialists and communists), there seems to be a kind of lock. They are free to condemn American, NATO or Israeli hypocrisy and deception, but when it comes to certain topics it is as if they refuse to connect the dots.

    They might at times admit that, yes, Muslim countries are shitholes, knife-wielding ‘young people’ are frightening, burkas are ailenating, that particular oligarch possesses Israeli dual citizenship, etc.

    But then, despite knowing it intellectually, they still criticise any kind of racism, ‘peasant-arse’ backwards East Europeans, Anti-Semitism or complaints about Turks or Arabs.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    But then, despite knowing it intellectually, they still criticise any kind of racism, ‘peasant-arse’ backwards East Europeans, Anti-Semitism or complaints about Turks or Arabs.
     
    I think part of the reason is that they have this comforting belief in blank-slatism. Yes, most of the world's population is shit, but we can reform them if we put them under the benevolent guidance of the EU!
    , @Beckow
    Most people are conformist because conformism works on an individual level. But it also makes societies dysfunctional in the long run.

    Connecting dots is scary, one can be called names, ostracised, loose livelihood or opportunities. There is also the societal element: most people in the large Western cities know personally lots of recent migrants and would not want to offend or be impolite. Sometimes a single Pakistani in a London office creates a complete taboo on any discussion. And women are more susceptible to feel-good 'humanitarianism', they tend to be numerically illiterate so explaining what is going on to many of them is a waste of time. They don't get numbers or growth rates, it is all about being polite and nice.

    But I don't justify it, the lack of strategic long-term thinking by most voters is very 'uncitizen-like' - they are giving away their land, their civilisation, their children's future (if they have any, most don't). There is no good scenario once the migrant numbers reach certain levels.
  142. @Hyperborean

    Do you really think or know that there aren’t any Asians living in these areas without proper documentation?
     
    Well, maybe North Koreans do.


    Hard working Chinese or Koreans that live in or near the Primorye area may indeed choose to homeschool their children, or have developed their own schools.
     
    Homeschooling: Chinese work too long for that (both the mother and father). I often see their children who are too young for school with their grandparents without any parents in sight.

    If they have their own schools to any significant degree, why don’t you list them?

    The bottom line seems to be that nobody really knows how many actual Asians (including the Far East’s Chinese and Korean nationals) actually live in Russia, including Karlin)

     

    If you were talking about Moscow and SPB, it would make more sense, but there is little reason to think that the Far East is being inundated.

    The Russian Far East and Manchuria* are both economically depressed and depopulating. Any Chinese settling down will go to Beijing or, if they go to Russia, will go to Moscow or Saint Petersburg.

    Most Koreans who come to Russia are from Central Asia and are Stalin's russified victims of deportations, not people from South Korea. They also do not settle in the Far East.

    *A bit irrelevant, but one can actually buy proper European-style bread and sausage in Harbin

    This Wikipedia article also presents some useful information
     
    Bearing in mind that the information in the article is dated and China is richer than a decade/a decade and a half ago.

    Temporary migration and shuttle trade conducted by Chinese merchants are most prevalent in Russia's Far Eastern Federal District, but most go back and forth across the border without settling down in Russia; the Chinese community in Moscow has a higher proportion of long-term residents.
     

    The community in Moscow was believed to have been the largest as of 2002, numbering 20,000 to 25,000 people; Chinese community leaders give even higher estimates in the 30,000 to 40,000 range.
     

    In the Russian Far East, the major urban centres of Chinese settlement include Khabarovsk, Vladivostok, and Ussuriysk, though in 2002, the total combined Chinese population in those three cities is less than that in Moscow.[30] In Ussuriysk, a large proportion of the Chinese migrants working as traders are joseonjok (Chinese citizens of Korean descent); their total population there is estimated at perhaps two or three thousand people.[31]
     

    Between 1988 and 2003, 133,000 contract workers from Heilongjiang went to work in Russia; most were employed in construction and agriculture.
     
    So 15 years and only 133,000 Chinese guest workers. Meanwhile millions of Central Asians are in Russia.

    Aside from resident contract workers, 1.1 million Chinese also went to the border areas of the Russian Far East on tourist visas from 1997 to 2002.[25] Despite the perception that many remain illegally in Russia, since 1996, over 97% of Chinese arriving on tourist visas departed on time by the same border crossing through which they entered Russia, and many of the remaining 3% either departed by other border crossings, or were arrested and deported.[28][30]
     

    Russian newspapers began to publish speculation that between two and five million Chinese migrants actually resided in the Russian Far East, and predicted that half of the population of Russia would be Chinese by 2050.[?!]
     
    If Chinese really made up from a quarter to half of the Far East's population since more than decade ago like these hyperbolic newspapers claim, why do not locals notice this pressure?

    The identitarian concern against the Chinese influx is described as less prevalent in the east, where most of the Chinese shuttle trade is actually occurring, than in European Russia.
     

    To be honest, I don’t think I should bother to argue this anymore.

    Clearly, just like with ‘Buryat soldiers’, this is one of your idées fixes, so it is probably just best to agree to disagree and leave it at that.

  143. @Hyperborean

    They either don’t care or they are even enthusiastic about the present state of affairs.
     
    I believe that the situation is heading towards a place where the important decisions will once again be decided by blood and iron.

    I think Guillaume Faye is right when he says that as long as people can enjoy their bourgeois comforts they will remain passive and continue to believe in a wonderful humanitarian fantasy.

    When I talk to most of my family and relatives (who are mostly socialists and communists), there seems to be a kind of lock. They are free to condemn American, NATO or Israeli hypocrisy and deception, but when it comes to certain topics it is as if they refuse to connect the dots.

    They might at times admit that, yes, Muslim countries are shitholes, knife-wielding 'young people' are frightening, burkas are ailenating, that particular oligarch possesses Israeli dual citizenship, etc.

    But then, despite knowing it intellectually, they still criticise any kind of racism, 'peasant-arse' backwards East Europeans, Anti-Semitism or complaints about Turks or Arabs.

    But then, despite knowing it intellectually, they still criticise any kind of racism, ‘peasant-arse’ backwards East Europeans, Anti-Semitism or complaints about Turks or Arabs.

    I think part of the reason is that they have this comforting belief in blank-slatism. Yes, most of the world’s population is shit, but we can reform them if we put them under the benevolent guidance of the EU!

    • Replies: @songbird
    I think you've touched on one of blank-slatism's hidden appeals: those who believe in one-world government accomplishing great things, by drawing on unprecedented resources, need to believe that the human capital is there. If it is not, then their hopeful vision is fundamentally impossible.

    It is not just about American blacks. It just began with American blacks.
  144. @Hyperborean

    They either don’t care or they are even enthusiastic about the present state of affairs.
     
    I believe that the situation is heading towards a place where the important decisions will once again be decided by blood and iron.

    I think Guillaume Faye is right when he says that as long as people can enjoy their bourgeois comforts they will remain passive and continue to believe in a wonderful humanitarian fantasy.

    When I talk to most of my family and relatives (who are mostly socialists and communists), there seems to be a kind of lock. They are free to condemn American, NATO or Israeli hypocrisy and deception, but when it comes to certain topics it is as if they refuse to connect the dots.

    They might at times admit that, yes, Muslim countries are shitholes, knife-wielding 'young people' are frightening, burkas are ailenating, that particular oligarch possesses Israeli dual citizenship, etc.

    But then, despite knowing it intellectually, they still criticise any kind of racism, 'peasant-arse' backwards East Europeans, Anti-Semitism or complaints about Turks or Arabs.

    Most people are conformist because conformism works on an individual level. But it also makes societies dysfunctional in the long run.

    Connecting dots is scary, one can be called names, ostracised, loose livelihood or opportunities. There is also the societal element: most people in the large Western cities know personally lots of recent migrants and would not want to offend or be impolite. Sometimes a single Pakistani in a London office creates a complete taboo on any discussion. And women are more susceptible to feel-good ‘humanitarianism’, they tend to be numerically illiterate so explaining what is going on to many of them is a waste of time. They don’t get numbers or growth rates, it is all about being polite and nice.

    But I don’t justify it, the lack of strategic long-term thinking by most voters is very ‘uncitizen-like’ – they are giving away their land, their civilisation, their children’s future (if they have any, most don’t). There is no good scenario once the migrant numbers reach certain levels.

  145. @melanf

    Those photos really make you notice the distinctive Slavic nose type
     
    Me seems that there is no "Slavic type nose." Slavs (and Russians in particular) have different origins and different phenotypes. To distinguish them on anthropological grounds from other peoples of Europe is almost impossible. If you think otherwise-determine (without Google) where the Slavs in the pictures

    https://c.radikal.ru/c40/1812/b2/f86636a055c2.jpg

    https://b.radikal.ru/b01/1812/d1/64de17304c8a.jpg

    http://www.rusdeutsch.ru/fotos/60704_big.jpg

    https://d.radikal.ru/d32/1812/73/771ea6429cdb.jpg

    Look at the following, these are more well known people, how many of these do you consider Russian?

    All three consider themselves Russian, which tells me more than enough that Russia is simply adhering to cuckservatism lite, with the end result of such an ideology being predictable.

    • Replies: @Swarthy Greek
    Shoygu is half ethnic Russian and an orthodox Christian so there’s no reason to not consider him Russian.
    , @Cutler
    You are incorrect, the three mentioned are Russian Citizens ( Rossiyane ) but they are not ethnic Russians ( Russki ) though Shoigu has a ethnic Russian mother. And as for Khabib he is white ( European, Of Avar ancestry. ) You can read a good book about the Caucasus by George Anchabadze called The Vainakhs. Its very good and for some less well read it will open your eyes.
    , @melanf

    Look at the following, these are more well known people, how many of these do you consider Russian?
     
    These people (half-Tuvan, Avar, and Kalmyk) in Russia are not considered ethnic Russians (and at least the last two definitely do not consider themselves ethnic Russian)
    , @AnonFromTN
    It’s very different in Russia. These are not recent runaways from shithole countries, they are culturally Russian, whatever their genetics. Russians have centuries-long history of living side-by-side with different nations and races in the same empire, so they are used to it and consider peaceful co-existence normal. There are tribalist nuts in Russia, but they are fringe. More civilized Russians know that Russian is not a nationality, it’s a state of mind. That’s what these people have. As a former military commander of Gorlovka Bezler said: “My mother is Ukrainian, my father German. So, who am I? A Russian!”
  146. @German_reader

    To me, it is strange it is not allowed in Germany.
     
    Germany is authoritarian (more so under Merkel than it has been for a long time), and especially in West Germany too many still have a naive faith in the state (even though the state is increasingly the enemy in an anarchotyranny sense).
    It surprised me though that it's allowed in Russia, especially since there even was some talk (or more?) of reintroducing basic military training in schools in recent years. I suppose it was allowed as a liberal reaction to the Soviet system immediately after the fall of communism and just never got repealed.

    It surprised me though that it’s allowed in Russia, especially since there even was some talk (or more?) of reintroducing basic military training in schools in recent years.

    Do you mean Yunarmiya? Although I think officially it is on a voluntary basis.

  147. @German_reader
    I checked on Wikipedia, according to them there are 50 000-100 000 (not terribly accurate numbers) homeschooled children in Russia.
    I suppose though that's mostly due to some religious subcultures, not Asian immigrants.
    Surprised me that it's allowed in Russia.

    I think that most home schooled kids must be Old believers.

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
    See above. "Most" could be true, but I don't personally know an example.
  148. @neutral
    Look at the following, these are more well known people, how many of these do you consider Russian?

    https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/images/shoigu.jpg

    https://khabibmcgregor.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/khabib-papakha-933x400.jpg

    https://www.thestandard.co.zw/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Kirsan-Ilyumzhinov-the-former-President-of-the-Republic-of-Kalmykia-and-head-of-the-World-Chess-Federation-Fide.jpg

    All three consider themselves Russian, which tells me more than enough that Russia is simply adhering to cuckservatism lite, with the end result of such an ideology being predictable.

    Shoygu is half ethnic Russian and an orthodox Christian so there’s no reason to not consider him Russian.

    • Replies: @neutral
    And thats my point right there, all of those I showed are non white, so Russia is basically a proposition nation. It also signed that UN migration pact, so with enough time all those sub Saharans that are swarming in Western Europe will move to Russia once Western Europe has been fully browned, and what exactly should stop these sub Saharans if they all are going to start saying that they want to move to Russia because they believe in "Russian values" (or other such cuckservative narratives).
    , @Hyperborean

    Shoygu is half ethnic Russian and an orthodox Christian
     
    I thought he was a Buddhist?
  149. @Swarthy Greek
    Shoygu is half ethnic Russian and an orthodox Christian so there’s no reason to not consider him Russian.

    And thats my point right there, all of those I showed are non white, so Russia is basically a proposition nation. It also signed that UN migration pact, so with enough time all those sub Saharans that are swarming in Western Europe will move to Russia once Western Europe has been fully browned, and what exactly should stop these sub Saharans if they all are going to start saying that they want to move to Russia because they believe in “Russian values” (or other such cuckservative narratives).

  150. @Swarthy Greek
    Shoygu is half ethnic Russian and an orthodox Christian so there’s no reason to not consider him Russian.

    Shoygu is half ethnic Russian and an orthodox Christian

    I thought he was a Buddhist?

    • Replies: @Swarthy Greek
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bYde-W8I4I
    , @AnonFromTN
    Who knows? He is half-Tuva, and Tuva are Buddhists. Many Russians and others living in the RF don’t believe in any fairy tales, which does not prevent them from going to some church or another. As my grandma said, “there is no God, but I have no intention of angering Him”.
  151. @Hyperborean

    Shoygu is half ethnic Russian and an orthodox Christian
     
    I thought he was a Buddhist?

  152. @German_reader
    I checked on Wikipedia, according to them there are 50 000-100 000 (not terribly accurate numbers) homeschooled children in Russia.
    I suppose though that's mostly due to some religious subcultures, not Asian immigrants.
    Surprised me that it's allowed in Russia.

    I suppose though that’s mostly due to some religious subcultures, not Asian immigrants.

    I have heard that some people in Russia educate their children at home to protect their kids from the excesses of Russian liberalism (tee-hee, quoth she), but I don’t know if that is representative. On the other hand, I personally know about thirty families on “semenoye” (it’s called “family” education in Russia), and while a few of them are religious (including my family), none of them seem to have religion as a motivation for family education. I know some Jews but haven’t yet met an Asian on family education. Mostly it seems to appeal to hippies and nerds, but maybe that says more about my circles than about the average family.

    There is an online popular journal on family education, and the editors organize a conference in Moscow once a year, which is fairly mainstream (insofar as homeschooling can be mainstream) and inclusive. The journal is here:

    https://semeynoe.com/

    In principle, you can even get the government to pay you for educating your own children, but nobody I know has tried to do that, preferring to fly under the radar.

    • Replies: @german_reader
    I know very little about homeschooling in general, my impression was that it's mainly something for people concerned about the degeneracy of modern culture (e.g. that their children might be exposed to pornography on the smartphones of classmates).
    Or possibly for hardcore religious people who don't want their children taught about evolution etc.
    I admit though to being uninformed about the subject.
  153. @Swarthy Greek
    I think that most home schooled kids must be Old believers.

    See above. “Most” could be true, but I don’t personally know an example.

  154. @AnonFromTN
    Pure Russians (although pure nationalities exist only in the minds of demented rabid nationalists) look very much like Northern Germans: blue eyes, blond hair, relatively small nose, widish face. But in general, the population in Russia has vary diverse phenotypes (and represents more than 100 different nationalities of two races: Caucasian and Asian).

    Pure Russians (although pure nationalities exist only in the minds of demented rabid nationalists) look very much like Northern Germans: blue eyes, blond hair, relatively small nose, widish face.

    There are (since the early middle ages) two different types of “pure” Russians: Northern Russians and Southern Russians. They have a common language and culture, but different origins. Here are anecdotal illustration of the differences of the two types (Arkhangelsk and Moscow):

    As you can see the Northern Russians are very similar in appearance to the Scandinavians (both the German-speaking and Finnish-speaking). Southern Russians are indistinguishable from Рoles and Slovaks. “Pure” Northern Russians live in the deserted North and their number is small, but it is they who conquered Siberia in the 16th-17th centuries, and therefore the Russian population of the Urals, Siberia and the Far East has noticeable “Northern” features.

    But in general, the population in Russia has vary diverse phenotypes

    As far as I know the genetic differences within the Russian ethnic group are more significant than in other indigenous ethnic groups in Europe.

    • Replies: @Adam
    >As far as I know the genetic differences within the Russian ethnic group are more significant than in other indigenous ethnic groups in Europe.

    Germany has a comparable history, eastern Germans are largely assimilated Slavs and southern Germans have a central European phenotype. 'Pure' Germans live in the north-west of the country. There are also significant genetic differences between north and south in Italy, Spain, and France (even when discounting the moorish component, which is greatly exaggerated).
    , @AnonFromTN

    As far as I know the genetic differences within the Russian ethnic group are more significant than in other indigenous ethnic groups in Europe.
     
    That’s only natural. Huge groups of Ugro-Finnish peoples and Tatars (this is genetically very heterogeneous category of Turkish-speaking people; e.g., people called Tatars in the Volga region and in the Urals look strikingly different) were assimilated in the course of Russian history. Virtually any Russian curious enough to look into it can find some Tatar or Mordvin, Chuvash, etc. ancestors. Nuts with primeval tribalist mentality won’t acknowledge that, but they are mongrels, too. In fact, after Georgia and Ukraine demonstrated that rabid nationalism can ruin any country, small and large, the popularity of nationalists in Russia dropped precipitously.
    , @Beckow

    ...Southern Russians are indistinguishable from Рoles and Slovaks.
     
    In general yes, but at least in Slovakia we have quite a few looking like the northern type, we call them 'cmarove' (sour milk, because they don't tan). Some of our best athletes come from that group.

    Central Europe has a lot of genetic variety and yet people can generally spot one's ethnic origin quickly by the look and manners: Germans look slightly constipated, Czechs look unserious, Magyars arrogant, Poles shifty, Russians take up too much space, Ukrainians like they just woke up after getting drunk...no disrespect and those are exaggerations, but stereotypes exist for a reason...
    , @Philip Owen
    What I notice in Russia is a bimodality in height. There is a distinct group of well above average people and then average people with little in between. As I am in between by Russian standards (taller than average but I don't match the giants - I am the same height as the females - 177) perhaps I am more sensitive to it.
  155. @AnonFromTN
    The girl I met (she works in collaborator’s lab, so I met her while visiting for a talk at their place) actually looks half Kazakh and half European. You can’t say whether the European half is German, Russian, British, Ukrainian, or whatever. It is certainly not French: she is tall.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if there were outfits in Kazakhstan producing fake proofs of German ancestry. At least in Ukraine there is a cottage industry producing fake proofs of Polish ancestry, charging from $2,000 to 10,000 per client (depending on their greed and client’s stupidity), just to get Karta Polyaka (Polish card), which is not even Polish citizenship, but a chance to acquire it.

    I know that at the height of Perestroika in late USSR there were rabbis who for $100 would write you a letter stating that you were born of Jewish mother personally known to him, which was back then required to get state freebies in Israel. I wonder whether Asians used their services, too, or if they didn’t, was it because of ridiculousness or they were just fastidious.
    If you are in Kazakhstan, ask around.

    In 1945-46 the ‘witness’ of two Jews was sufficient to ascertain that some Jews (mostly returning from beyond the Urals) were in the camps where they ‘knew him personally’ and getting the ‘freebies’ from UNRRA (United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Administration).

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Quite possible. Fraud is as old as humanity, maybe even older. Every society has its fraudsters, but they are more successful in some social structures than in others.
  156. @German_reader
    I checked on Wikipedia, according to them there are 50 000-100 000 (not terribly accurate numbers) homeschooled children in Russia.
    I suppose though that's mostly due to some religious subcultures, not Asian immigrants.
    Surprised me that it's allowed in Russia.

    I checked on Wikipedia, according to them there are 50 000-100 000 (not terribly accurate numbers) homeschooled children in Russia.
    I suppose though that’s mostly due to some religious subcultures, not Asian immigrants.
    Surprised me that it’s allowed in Russia.

    Some children just live in small settlements too far from school. In most other cases, parents believe that in the school children are taught bad/they don’t want their children to communicate at school with bullies.

  157. @Beckow

    ...a question of political will and what kind of methods one is willing to use.
     
    Let me explain why I think the issue is not really solvable:

    There is a critical mass of unassimilable migrants in the main Western European countries. They have come to dominate all major cities, from London to Berlin. They are allowed to bring in more of their relatives, so even with complete control of Mediterranean, the family-reunification/cousin marriage will continue. The social benefits that they most use are not the meagre cash payments that could be cut easily, they are using the education, medical and housing social systems. The abuse is literally built into the systems. The parasites have moved in and the social system cannot change - it can collapse completely, but it cannot be reformed at this point.

    As it looks today, the required political will is a few years away, if ever. The methods required become ever harsher with each year, so the odds of implementation are less. There was a tipping point in 2010-15, and people ignored it. Now the choices are: managing it (but it will be miserable), geographic separations, or a complete collapse that could free up all kinds of harsh methods, but is unpredictable and very unpleasant to live through.

    What is insane is that there is still a very powerful elite group pushing yet another option: accelerate the migration-open borders-globalization process. Make it ubiquitous, suppress any opposition, and change Europe even faster. And they think they are winning. Nothing I have seen suggests that they are not. That Russian lebensraum might be needed after all, Bershitsky doesn't just talk sh..t, he means it.

    The *real* problem is that too many shit-for-brains white cunts support the third world trash and will even kill and be killed defending the trash.

  158. @The Big Red Scary

    I suppose though that’s mostly due to some religious subcultures, not Asian immigrants.
     
    I have heard that some people in Russia educate their children at home to protect their kids from the excesses of Russian liberalism (tee-hee, quoth she), but I don't know if that is representative. On the other hand, I personally know about thirty families on "semenoye" (it's called "family" education in Russia), and while a few of them are religious (including my family), none of them seem to have religion as a motivation for family education. I know some Jews but haven't yet met an Asian on family education. Mostly it seems to appeal to hippies and nerds, but maybe that says more about my circles than about the average family.

    There is an online popular journal on family education, and the editors organize a conference in Moscow once a year, which is fairly mainstream (insofar as homeschooling can be mainstream) and inclusive. The journal is here:

    https://semeynoe.com/

    In principle, you can even get the government to pay you for educating your own children, but nobody I know has tried to do that, preferring to fly under the radar.

    I know very little about homeschooling in general, my impression was that it’s mainly something for people concerned about the degeneracy of modern culture (e.g. that their children might be exposed to pornography on the smartphones of classmates).
    Or possibly for hardcore religious people who don’t want their children taught about evolution etc.
    I admit though to being uninformed about the subject.

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
    In my circles, I think most people are simply dissatisfied with excessive authoritarianism and rigidity in the state schools. Also, the pointless requirements of school can be burdensome not only to the child, but also to the parents. If you have a happy, intelligent child who is making good social and intellectual progress and feels miserable at school, why make them go?

    What we ourselves actually do is not traditional "homeschooling" but something in between "unschooling" and "democratic school". We do it cooperatively with a group of other families, so the kids are together all day long and involved in various activities that they organize themselves, and there are always some parents hanging around, either working on something with the kids or working on their own interests. Everyone who participates has a vote in the school meeting on pretty much all aspects of the school. In short, we are apparently weirdos and probably not a representative sample, though still a fairly diverse one.

    , @AP
    A friend who homeschools is a traditional (Anglican) Christian and also a scientist. He is obviously not anti-evolution but wants to avoid subjecting his kids to the degeneracy of mass modern culture.
    , @Thorfinnsson
    Home schoolers are often (probably even usually) religious people concerned about degeneracy, but they have further concerns.

    Some of them live in "diverse" areas but are of modest means and thus cannot afford to send their children to private schools.

    Others have gifted children and don't live in an area where public schools offer gifted education.

    There are also those who simply get into feuds with the local public school administration for various reasons. I am friends with a lawyer who was home schooled for one year because her late mother got into some kind of feud with the school board 20 years ago.

    There is genuine concern about pedagogy as well. The "Saxon Math" curriculum, which they allege is superior, is very popular. They often use old-fashioned, but superior, instructional books for orthography.

    Most home schoolers cooperate with other home schoolers, and they make sure their children participate in other activities (church groups, boy scouts, sports leagues, etc.) so they are properly socialized.
  159. @german_reader
    I know very little about homeschooling in general, my impression was that it's mainly something for people concerned about the degeneracy of modern culture (e.g. that their children might be exposed to pornography on the smartphones of classmates).
    Or possibly for hardcore religious people who don't want their children taught about evolution etc.
    I admit though to being uninformed about the subject.

    In my circles, I think most people are simply dissatisfied with excessive authoritarianism and rigidity in the state schools. Also, the pointless requirements of school can be burdensome not only to the child, but also to the parents. If you have a happy, intelligent child who is making good social and intellectual progress and feels miserable at school, why make them go?

    What we ourselves actually do is not traditional “homeschooling” but something in between “unschooling” and “democratic school”. We do it cooperatively with a group of other families, so the kids are together all day long and involved in various activities that they organize themselves, and there are always some parents hanging around, either working on something with the kids or working on their own interests. Everyone who participates has a vote in the school meeting on pretty much all aspects of the school. In short, we are apparently weirdos and probably not a representative sample, though still a fairly diverse one.

    • Replies: @German_reader

    the pointless requirements of school
     
    Like what?
    Some sort of cooperative endeavour seems necessary, though personally I'd want more of a regular structure for my children (if I had any).
    , @Hyperborean

    In my circles, I think most people are simply dissatisfied with excessive authoritarianism and rigidity in the state schools.
     
    Could you elaborate?
  160. @The Big Red Scary
    In my circles, I think most people are simply dissatisfied with excessive authoritarianism and rigidity in the state schools. Also, the pointless requirements of school can be burdensome not only to the child, but also to the parents. If you have a happy, intelligent child who is making good social and intellectual progress and feels miserable at school, why make them go?

    What we ourselves actually do is not traditional "homeschooling" but something in between "unschooling" and "democratic school". We do it cooperatively with a group of other families, so the kids are together all day long and involved in various activities that they organize themselves, and there are always some parents hanging around, either working on something with the kids or working on their own interests. Everyone who participates has a vote in the school meeting on pretty much all aspects of the school. In short, we are apparently weirdos and probably not a representative sample, though still a fairly diverse one.

    the pointless requirements of school

    Like what?
    Some sort of cooperative endeavour seems necessary, though personally I’d want more of a regular structure for my children (if I had any).

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary

    Like what?
     
    First, let me say that while I have some ideas about what works for kids of above average intelligence, I don't know what the proles need, but standard school doesn't seem to work for them either. Given that caveat, the main problem is that the real purpose of state schools is to serve as a day prison for children whose parents are at work. And while the list of subjects in a typical school curriculum does usually consist of useful and interesting things (languages, mathematics, sciences, history, and so on), the way in which they are taught is almost always and everywhere ineffective, and a hundred years of research into pedagogy has not improved matters much.

    Just ask a random "intelligent" and "educated" adult to explain (not even precisely with formulas but intuitively) what Newton said about gravity or Ohm said about the relation between resistance, voltage, and current, and you'll discover what good a mandatory physics course does for most people. Foreign languages are another example. Better for kids to watch cartoons on youtube than to take language lessons.

    Mostly I am concerned with the opportunity cost, though. An intelligent child can very quickly get through the standard curriculum, or will just absorb it by default, and then have more time for other activities (music, reading, climbing trees, science experiments in the garage). For me personally, I'm sure my children get more out of traveling with me for a month when I go to other countries for conferences and scientific collaborations than they would out of staying home and going to school. Admittedly this is an unusual case, but I've never pretended to be normal.

    personally I’d want more of a regular structure for my children

     

    Most people do, I think. The composition of our group changes from year to year, with a few core families persisting and others coming and going. Many people end up going to one of the local "alternative schools", where more or less the standard curriculum is followed, but in a more friendly
    atmosphere than at the state schools.
    , @The Big Red Scary
    By the way, our school certainly has structure-- the day has a beginning, middle, and end consisting of the school meeting, lunch, and a walk in the woods or to the lake; there is a long and growing list of rules; there is a "court" for dealing with broken rules; there are committees in charge of mainting equipment, stocking materials, and so on. But there are no lessons, and besides following the rules and cleaning up after yourself, nothing is required. So it is too free for most people to handle.
  161. Having streamed state schools would eliminate most of the need for home/private schooling

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary

    Having streamed state schools
     
    We have many of them in Moscow. Perhaps not everyone who wants to go to one gets in, but I don't think that will be a problem in our case when the children are older and if they decide that they want to go to one.
  162. @The Big Red Scary
    In my circles, I think most people are simply dissatisfied with excessive authoritarianism and rigidity in the state schools. Also, the pointless requirements of school can be burdensome not only to the child, but also to the parents. If you have a happy, intelligent child who is making good social and intellectual progress and feels miserable at school, why make them go?

    What we ourselves actually do is not traditional "homeschooling" but something in between "unschooling" and "democratic school". We do it cooperatively with a group of other families, so the kids are together all day long and involved in various activities that they organize themselves, and there are always some parents hanging around, either working on something with the kids or working on their own interests. Everyone who participates has a vote in the school meeting on pretty much all aspects of the school. In short, we are apparently weirdos and probably not a representative sample, though still a fairly diverse one.

    In my circles, I think most people are simply dissatisfied with excessive authoritarianism and rigidity in the state schools.

    Could you elaborate?

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
    Many of the teachers at the state schools are just plain nasty bitches.

    I don't use such words often or lightly.
  163. @German_reader

    the pointless requirements of school
     
    Like what?
    Some sort of cooperative endeavour seems necessary, though personally I'd want more of a regular structure for my children (if I had any).

    Like what?

    First, let me say that while I have some ideas about what works for kids of above average intelligence, I don’t know what the proles need, but standard school doesn’t seem to work for them either. Given that caveat, the main problem is that the real purpose of state schools is to serve as a day prison for children whose parents are at work. And while the list of subjects in a typical school curriculum does usually consist of useful and interesting things (languages, mathematics, sciences, history, and so on), the way in which they are taught is almost always and everywhere ineffective, and a hundred years of research into pedagogy has not improved matters much.

    Just ask a random “intelligent” and “educated” adult to explain (not even precisely with formulas but intuitively) what Newton said about gravity or Ohm said about the relation between resistance, voltage, and current, and you’ll discover what good a mandatory physics course does for most people. Foreign languages are another example. Better for kids to watch cartoons on youtube than to take language lessons.

    Mostly I am concerned with the opportunity cost, though. An intelligent child can very quickly get through the standard curriculum, or will just absorb it by default, and then have more time for other activities (music, reading, climbing trees, science experiments in the garage). For me personally, I’m sure my children get more out of traveling with me for a month when I go to other countries for conferences and scientific collaborations than they would out of staying home and going to school. Admittedly this is an unusual case, but I’ve never pretended to be normal.

    personally I’d want more of a regular structure for my children

    Most people do, I think. The composition of our group changes from year to year, with a few core families persisting and others coming and going. Many people end up going to one of the local “alternative schools”, where more or less the standard curriculum is followed, but in a more friendly
    atmosphere than at the state schools.

  164. @Hyperborean

    In my circles, I think most people are simply dissatisfied with excessive authoritarianism and rigidity in the state schools.
     
    Could you elaborate?

    Many of the teachers at the state schools are just plain nasty bitches.

    I don’t use such words often or lightly.

  165. @DFH
    Having streamed state schools would eliminate most of the need for home/private schooling

    Having streamed state schools

    We have many of them in Moscow. Perhaps not everyone who wants to go to one gets in, but I don’t think that will be a problem in our case when the children are older and if they decide that they want to go to one.

  166. @German_reader

    the pointless requirements of school
     
    Like what?
    Some sort of cooperative endeavour seems necessary, though personally I'd want more of a regular structure for my children (if I had any).

    By the way, our school certainly has structure– the day has a beginning, middle, and end consisting of the school meeting, lunch, and a walk in the woods or to the lake; there is a long and growing list of rules; there is a “court” for dealing with broken rules; there are committees in charge of mainting equipment, stocking materials, and so on. But there are no lessons, and besides following the rules and cleaning up after yourself, nothing is required. So it is too free for most people to handle.

  167. @neutral
    Look at the following, these are more well known people, how many of these do you consider Russian?

    https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/images/shoigu.jpg

    https://khabibmcgregor.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/khabib-papakha-933x400.jpg

    https://www.thestandard.co.zw/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Kirsan-Ilyumzhinov-the-former-President-of-the-Republic-of-Kalmykia-and-head-of-the-World-Chess-Federation-Fide.jpg

    All three consider themselves Russian, which tells me more than enough that Russia is simply adhering to cuckservatism lite, with the end result of such an ideology being predictable.

    You are incorrect, the three mentioned are Russian Citizens ( Rossiyane ) but they are not ethnic Russians ( Russki ) though Shoigu has a ethnic Russian mother. And as for Khabib he is white ( European, Of Avar ancestry. ) You can read a good book about the Caucasus by George Anchabadze called The Vainakhs. Its very good and for some less well read it will open your eyes.

  168. @neutral
    Look at the following, these are more well known people, how many of these do you consider Russian?

    https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/images/shoigu.jpg

    https://khabibmcgregor.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/khabib-papakha-933x400.jpg

    https://www.thestandard.co.zw/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Kirsan-Ilyumzhinov-the-former-President-of-the-Republic-of-Kalmykia-and-head-of-the-World-Chess-Federation-Fide.jpg

    All three consider themselves Russian, which tells me more than enough that Russia is simply adhering to cuckservatism lite, with the end result of such an ideology being predictable.

    Look at the following, these are more well known people, how many of these do you consider Russian?

    These people (half-Tuvan, Avar, and Kalmyk) in Russia are not considered ethnic Russians (and at least the last two definitely do not consider themselves ethnic Russian)

  169. @german_reader
    I know very little about homeschooling in general, my impression was that it's mainly something for people concerned about the degeneracy of modern culture (e.g. that their children might be exposed to pornography on the smartphones of classmates).
    Or possibly for hardcore religious people who don't want their children taught about evolution etc.
    I admit though to being uninformed about the subject.

    A friend who homeschools is a traditional (Anglican) Christian and also a scientist. He is obviously not anti-evolution but wants to avoid subjecting his kids to the degeneracy of mass modern culture.

    • Replies: @Mikhail

    A friend who homeschools is a traditional (Anglican) Christian and also a scientist. He is obviously not anti-evolution but wants to avoid subjecting his kids to the degeneracy of mass modern culture.
     
    That can work in a shielded surrounding. I've a religious Christian friend, who brought his kid up in a religious private school. At some point, when junior got into double digits, he was put into a quality public school system. The idea was to have him brought up with a mesh of discipline and respect, combined with knowing how to best deal with likely life encounters.
  170. Russia could propel Europe faster toward hard-to-reach environmental goals. With its untapped economic potential and need for immigrants to develop its vast territory, it could be a big help in resolving migration issues.

    I would like to be there to see their faces when they find out they are going to be sent to Siberia

    • Replies: @Adam
    I live in a region with a climate comparable to Siberia and third worlders from all corners of the earth are clamoring to come here. Other than being economically depressed, there's no reason Siberia or anywhere in Russia could never be a target for enrichment.
  171. @Hyperborean

    But then, despite knowing it intellectually, they still criticise any kind of racism, ‘peasant-arse’ backwards East Europeans, Anti-Semitism or complaints about Turks or Arabs.
     
    I think part of the reason is that they have this comforting belief in blank-slatism. Yes, most of the world's population is shit, but we can reform them if we put them under the benevolent guidance of the EU!

    I think you’ve touched on one of blank-slatism’s hidden appeals: those who believe in one-world government accomplishing great things, by drawing on unprecedented resources, need to believe that the human capital is there. If it is not, then their hopeful vision is fundamentally impossible.

    It is not just about American blacks. It just began with American blacks.

  172. @Thorfinnsson
    Minerals and energy are already being exploited throughout Siberia. This is not labor intensive and doesn't require large population centers. No different than the way oil and fish is heavily exploited in Alaska (population 740,000 in a territory about the size of Western Europe) along with oil and beef heavily developed in the Canadian province of Alberta (population 660,000 in a territory the size of France). And these places both have large tourism sectors.

    There is probably room to improve timber production however, as Russia is only the sixth largest timber exporter in the world (amazingly Germany is #5). But timber harvesting isn't labor intensive either. Today we have power saws, skidders, and timberjacks. I suspect what's needed here is transportation infrastructure, above all else timber roads.

    But I suspect the number one area where Siberia has a lot of promise is the tourism sector. It is as I understand an area of stunning beauty, but one which receives few visitors especially from overseas.

    Alberta’s area is 660,000 skm, population is 4 millions

  173. @Anon

    Russia is the single biggest threat to the West
     
    Imagine being so dumb to believe this. China is the biggest threat, and mostly to the US as it seeks to prevent another hegemonic peer competitor. Russia is mostly just a sidekick to China these days, a declining great power - but a great power for now nonetheless.

    A lot of the hot air floating around on Russia is just cynical propaganda to increase military spending and to rationalise NATO's continued existence. As always with propaganda efforts, the mid-level managers and the low-level grunts are too stupid to see through the BS they are spreading. They mostly just care about the paycheck to do the Empire's bidding anyway.

    The truth is, NATO truly is obsolete. Russia isn't going to invade Europe and Germans are correct in dissing Trump's retarded rants about muh military spending. NATO is an organisation in search of a continued purpose to existing and if they have to invent one, then the tired ol' Russia Bear will do. NATO is also obsolete to deal with China, because China doesn't threaten Europe. The US is mostly obsessed with China for imperial reasons. That's why you see a lot more pushback on banning Huawei in Europe, with Germans going back and forth and the Czechs being cagey about it. It's time for Europe to cut the cord to ZOG.

    The truth is, NATO truly is obsolete. Russia isn’t going to invade Europe and Germans are correct in dissing Trump’s retarded rants about muh military spending.

    The Germans have perfected a helpless kitten act, but will find that America is slowly but surely withdrawing from Europe to face China. If Germany persists they will draw Russia into aggressive moves westward, just as surely a Russia’s weakness drew Nato into Ukraine and Georgia.

    Stalin planned to ship Germans off to the Soviet Union and use them to teach Russians work discipline (ie having a drink after the work is done, as opposed to drinking instead of doing the work). Perhaps Germans are the missing ingredient for Putin.

    • Replies: @Mikhail

    Stalin planned to ship Germans off to the Soviet Union and use them to teach Russians work discipline (ie having a drink after the work is done, as opposed to drinking instead of doing the work). Perhaps Germans are the missing ingredient for Putin.
     
    Putin is known to be a Germanphile. On plans with a WW II connect, a US aired documentary highlights that some of the Nazis recognized that their living space plans for the east would be problematical on account of not having enough Germans. Hence, it was argued to recruit healthy, light skinned, blond haired, blue eye looking non-Germans in the east.
  174. @melanf

    Pure Russians (although pure nationalities exist only in the minds of demented rabid nationalists) look very much like Northern Germans: blue eyes, blond hair, relatively small nose, widish face.
     
    There are (since the early middle ages) two different types of "pure" Russians: Northern Russians and Southern Russians. They have a common language and culture, but different origins. Here are anecdotal illustration of the differences of the two types (Arkhangelsk and Moscow):

    https://a.radikal.ru/a25/1812/61/209e5f36bc98.jpg

    https://a.radikal.ru/a34/1812/61/55a30e8e480a.jpg

    As you can see the Northern Russians are very similar in appearance to the Scandinavians (both the German-speaking and Finnish-speaking). Southern Russians are indistinguishable from Рoles and Slovaks. "Pure" Northern Russians live in the deserted North and their number is small, but it is they who conquered Siberia in the 16th-17th centuries, and therefore the Russian population of the Urals, Siberia and the Far East has noticeable "Northern" features.

    But in general, the population in Russia has vary diverse phenotypes

     

    As far as I know the genetic differences within the Russian ethnic group are more significant than in other indigenous ethnic groups in Europe.

    >As far as I know the genetic differences within the Russian ethnic group are more significant than in other indigenous ethnic groups in Europe.

    Germany has a comparable history, eastern Germans are largely assimilated Slavs and southern Germans have a central European phenotype. ‘Pure’ Germans live in the north-west of the country. There are also significant genetic differences between north and south in Italy, Spain, and France (even when discounting the moorish component, which is greatly exaggerated).

    • Replies: @melanf

    Germany has a comparable history, eastern Germans are largely assimilated Slavs and southern Germans have a central European phenotype. ‘Pure’ Germans live in the north-west of the country.
     
    In Cologne it seemed to me a significant part of the local population - the descendants of the Roman colonists (they had a completely Italian faces).
  175. @Sean

    Russia could propel Europe faster toward hard-to-reach environmental goals. With its untapped economic potential and need for immigrants to develop its vast territory, it could be a big help in resolving migration issues.
     
    I would like to be there to see their faces when they find out they are going to be sent to Siberia

    https://www.msxlabs.org/forum/attachments/11556-aleksandr-soljenitsin-230px-aleksandr-solzhenitsyn-gulag-mugshot-1953.jpg

    I live in a region with a climate comparable to Siberia and third worlders from all corners of the earth are clamoring to come here. Other than being economically depressed, there’s no reason Siberia or anywhere in Russia could never be a target for enrichment.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The magic word is "Social Security".
    , @Anonymous
    Ahh, but what do your local darkies do?

    Not lumberjacking or mining for sure.

    The hardest 'work' any of those worthless, useless cunts do is either to sit on their asses and drive taxis, or make and deliver pizzas for wankers too lazy to put their coats on and go out of the front door.

    Fucking parasites, the lot of them. If whitey hadn't put in central heating, you wouldn't see those bastards for dust.

    Count on it.
    , @Sean

    https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-siberian-curse-does-russias-geography-doom-its-chances-for-market-reform/

    Only the Soviet Union—a totalitarian state with coercion at its core, with its highly centralized control of production and redistribution of resources, and with absolutely no sense of cost—could conquer Siberia. [...] By the 1970s the Soviet Union had urbanized its coldest regions to an extent far beyond that of any other country in the world. At precisely the time when people in North America and western Europe were moving to warmer regions of their countries, the Soviets were moving in the opposite direction.
     

    https://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/wilderness-resources/blogs/russia-offers-free-land-bid-settle-remote-wilderness

    Families are also encouraged to apply –– a household of five will receive over 12 acres Critics ... say it will only increase the amount of Chinese workers immigrating in masses across the border to work on newly-developed Russian farms.
     
    , @AnonFromTN
    Many “refugees” are actually looking for freebies. In Russia you don’t get any, you have to work. So, decent third-worlders might want to go to Siberia, but the lazy scum would flock to Germany, Sweden, and other suicidal countries where they get something for nothing.
    , @melanf

    I live in a region with a climate comparable to Siberia and third worlders from all corners of the earth are clamoring to come here. Other than being economically depressed, there’s no reason Siberia or anywhere in Russia could never be a target for enrichment.
     
    On Sakhalin, the average monthly salary (after tax) at purchasing power parity is more than $ 3,000. In 2017, the population of Sakhalin increased by 51 people, but this was the first time in many years - before that, the population continuously decreased for many years (despite high wages).

    Where do you live, Alaska?
    , @UrbaneFrancoOntarian
    My region is slightly warmer than Siberia, but they are flooding in here too. The somalians just stay inside all winter.

    You would think the city is 95% white when you go out during the winter, or do any kind of outdoor activity.
  176. @Adam
    I live in a region with a climate comparable to Siberia and third worlders from all corners of the earth are clamoring to come here. Other than being economically depressed, there's no reason Siberia or anywhere in Russia could never be a target for enrichment.

    The magic word is “Social Security”.

  177. Anonymous[183] • Disclaimer says:
    @Adam
    I live in a region with a climate comparable to Siberia and third worlders from all corners of the earth are clamoring to come here. Other than being economically depressed, there's no reason Siberia or anywhere in Russia could never be a target for enrichment.

    Ahh, but what do your local darkies do?

    Not lumberjacking or mining for sure.

    The hardest ‘work’ any of those worthless, useless cunts do is either to sit on their asses and drive taxis, or make and deliver pizzas for wankers too lazy to put their coats on and go out of the front door.

    Fucking parasites, the lot of them. If whitey hadn’t put in central heating, you wouldn’t see those bastards for dust.

    Count on it.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Less than 2% of the working population in the U.S. is to be found in the agricultural sector. About 4% works in the construction sector. Service sector and administrative employees - the people you're calling 'fucking parasites' - make up more than 80% of the workforce in just about any occidental country.
  178. @AnonFromTN
    The girl I met (she works in collaborator’s lab, so I met her while visiting for a talk at their place) actually looks half Kazakh and half European. You can’t say whether the European half is German, Russian, British, Ukrainian, or whatever. It is certainly not French: she is tall.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if there were outfits in Kazakhstan producing fake proofs of German ancestry. At least in Ukraine there is a cottage industry producing fake proofs of Polish ancestry, charging from $2,000 to 10,000 per client (depending on their greed and client’s stupidity), just to get Karta Polyaka (Polish card), which is not even Polish citizenship, but a chance to acquire it.

    I know that at the height of Perestroika in late USSR there were rabbis who for $100 would write you a letter stating that you were born of Jewish mother personally known to him, which was back then required to get state freebies in Israel. I wonder whether Asians used their services, too, or if they didn’t, was it because of ridiculousness or they were just fastidious.
    If you are in Kazakhstan, ask around.

    Even if you never wanted to live in Germany, it is an extreme advantage for your life to attain a German passport.

    Just as a tourist, imagine how much money you will save in not buying visas, over a whole life?

    And of course, for young people – you could study for free in Stockholm University, or work next week in Paris (all without applying for any visa).

    Even tuition fee for somewhere like a British university (University of Cambridge), is more than twice cheaper if you have an EU country passport.

    So, currently, in University of Cambridge, it is £33,342 fee per year for MPhil for non-EU student in e.g. standard price course for them.

    But all you need is an EU passport, and the price is only £12,255.

    https://www.graduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses/directory/egegmpmsl/finance
    How unfair is this system?

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    That might be true for Kazakhstan citizens. With Russian citizenship you don’t need visas to ~50-60 countries, with the US citizenship you go visa-free to ~100 countries. You still need special permits to work (to be paid, that is) in all of them with either passport, though.

    BTW, PhD programs in the UK are not worth even reduced price, unless the degree certificate is the only thing you want. You get a degree there in three years regardless of your actual performance (only being dead or in jail can prevent that). In decent American Universities grad students get a permission to defend only after they have at least one first-author paper accepted. My grad students usually get more.
  179. @neutral
    Look at the following, these are more well known people, how many of these do you consider Russian?

    https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/images/shoigu.jpg

    https://khabibmcgregor.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/khabib-papakha-933x400.jpg

    https://www.thestandard.co.zw/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Kirsan-Ilyumzhinov-the-former-President-of-the-Republic-of-Kalmykia-and-head-of-the-World-Chess-Federation-Fide.jpg

    All three consider themselves Russian, which tells me more than enough that Russia is simply adhering to cuckservatism lite, with the end result of such an ideology being predictable.

    It’s very different in Russia. These are not recent runaways from shithole countries, they are culturally Russian, whatever their genetics. Russians have centuries-long history of living side-by-side with different nations and races in the same empire, so they are used to it and consider peaceful co-existence normal. There are tribalist nuts in Russia, but they are fringe. More civilized Russians know that Russian is not a nationality, it’s a state of mind. That’s what these people have. As a former military commander of Gorlovka Bezler said: “My mother is Ukrainian, my father German. So, who am I? A Russian!”

    • Replies: @DFH
    Based Civic Imperialism!
  180. @Hyperborean

    Shoygu is half ethnic Russian and an orthodox Christian
     
    I thought he was a Buddhist?

    Who knows? He is half-Tuva, and Tuva are Buddhists. Many Russians and others living in the RF don’t believe in any fairy tales, which does not prevent them from going to some church or another. As my grandma said, “there is no God, but I have no intention of angering Him”.

  181. @Anonymous
    Ahh, but what do your local darkies do?

    Not lumberjacking or mining for sure.

    The hardest 'work' any of those worthless, useless cunts do is either to sit on their asses and drive taxis, or make and deliver pizzas for wankers too lazy to put their coats on and go out of the front door.

    Fucking parasites, the lot of them. If whitey hadn't put in central heating, you wouldn't see those bastards for dust.

    Count on it.

    Less than 2% of the working population in the U.S. is to be found in the agricultural sector. About 4% works in the construction sector. Service sector and administrative employees – the people you’re calling ‘fucking parasites’ – make up more than 80% of the workforce in just about any occidental country.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The fucking parasites I'm talking about are worthless useless cunt Paki pizza delivery boys, taxi drivers, curry waiters and the rest of that turd crew.
  182. @Mitleser

    Nordstream 2 was planned on the assumption that natural gas consumption in Europe would be 50% higher today than it is.

    While Russia is a low-cost producer ideally situated to supply Europe with natural gas, Europe doesn’t need more energy.
     
    But it does need more pipeline capacity. The point of NS is to ensure that gas exports via gas pipelines won't be stopped by problems in Poland/Belarus/the Ukraine.

    But the Euros aren’t serious. Otherwise the Germans wouldn’t have shut down their nuclear power sector nor would their brown coal production figures be crushing post-reunification records.
     
    They are serious enough to sacrifice the German car industry for that, see reduction of CO2 emissions in the next decade.
    And what happened in this year in Hambach Forest shows that once nuclear power is gone, coal will be next.

    https://twitter.com/FortuneMagazine/status/1076179260707090432

    I see no evidence that the German car industry is being sacrificed, though obviously “dieselgate” should’ve been swept under the rug. Or perhaps the responsible executives should’ve been hailed as heroes.

    I understand there are also homo-sexuals in Germany who wish to eliminate the famed unlimited speed on the Autobahn, but that won’t kill the car industry.

    The German car industry is now gearing up to annihilate Tesla, but that’s a different story.

    Phasing out black coal mining in Germany has been planned for decades, and for the same reason as in Great Britain–it’s uneconomic.

    What shows that Germany isn’t serious about climate change is shutting down nuclear power, the best form of of clean power. This led to a sharp increase in coal consumption, and perversely brown coal consumption which is far dirtier. And Germany is set to keep mining coal until 2040.

    And in any case ending coal mining is irrelevant from a climate perspective if it is simply substituted with imported coal. Britain has been importing Australian coal ever since Thatcher crushed the miners (though a lot of the coal fleet has since been replaced by gas).

    • Replies: @Mitleser

    I see no evidence that the German car industry is being sacrificed, though obviously “dieselgate” should’ve been swept under the rug. Or perhaps the responsible executives should’ve been hailed as heroes.
     
    First they came for the diesel which produces less carbon emissions than gasoline engine.
    Than they came for the gasoline engine.

    https://twitter.com/EWGnetwork/status/1074959408852033536

    Head of VW, the biggest German car maker said that they can handle that thanks to their E-platform and the Chinese market, but the former means job losses even if they are successful and the latter suffers from overcapacity.
    https://www.tichyseinblick.de/wirtschaft/mobilitaet/die-quittung-fuer-den-dieselwahnsinn/

    This led to a sharp increase in coal consumption, and perversely brown coal consumption which is far dirtier.
     
    Brown coal production and consumption in Germany has been declining since 2012/2013.

    And Germany is set to keep mining coal until 2040.
     
    Hambach Forest was supposed to be cleared for the sake of brown coal mining, but that did not work out despite support from the two biggest parties. Do not understimate the ability of Greens and friends to derail coal mining.
    , @Philip Owen
    Actually, in the UK we are now only using coal in the coldest months of winter. The final decline was large and fast. I think there are two big coal burners left. One, Drax, is however the biggest power station in the UK. It mixes the coal with biofuel to evade regulation. The other is Aberthaw in South Wales, also one of the biggest. It is closing this year. I helped to build it as an apprentice almost 50 years ago.
  183. @melanf

    Pure Russians (although pure nationalities exist only in the minds of demented rabid nationalists) look very much like Northern Germans: blue eyes, blond hair, relatively small nose, widish face.
     
    There are (since the early middle ages) two different types of "pure" Russians: Northern Russians and Southern Russians. They have a common language and culture, but different origins. Here are anecdotal illustration of the differences of the two types (Arkhangelsk and Moscow):

    https://a.radikal.ru/a25/1812/61/209e5f36bc98.jpg

    https://a.radikal.ru/a34/1812/61/55a30e8e480a.jpg

    As you can see the Northern Russians are very similar in appearance to the Scandinavians (both the German-speaking and Finnish-speaking). Southern Russians are indistinguishable from Рoles and Slovaks. "Pure" Northern Russians live in the deserted North and their number is small, but it is they who conquered Siberia in the 16th-17th centuries, and therefore the Russian population of the Urals, Siberia and the Far East has noticeable "Northern" features.

    But in general, the population in Russia has vary diverse phenotypes

     

    As far as I know the genetic differences within the Russian ethnic group are more significant than in other indigenous ethnic groups in Europe.

    As far as I know the genetic differences within the Russian ethnic group are more significant than in other indigenous ethnic groups in Europe.

    That’s only natural. Huge groups of Ugro-Finnish peoples and Tatars (this is genetically very heterogeneous category of Turkish-speaking people; e.g., people called Tatars in the Volga region and in the Urals look strikingly different) were assimilated in the course of Russian history. Virtually any Russian curious enough to look into it can find some Tatar or Mordvin, Chuvash, etc. ancestors. Nuts with primeval tribalist mentality won’t acknowledge that, but they are mongrels, too. In fact, after Georgia and Ukraine demonstrated that rabid nationalism can ruin any country, small and large, the popularity of nationalists in Russia dropped precipitously.

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    Tatars (this is genetically very heterogeneous category

     

    Yes some look all the way like Kazakhs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgfiGtWdVuo
  184. @Seraphim
    In 1945-46 the 'witness' of two Jews was sufficient to ascertain that some Jews (mostly returning from beyond the Urals) were in the camps where they 'knew him personally' and getting the 'freebies' from UNRRA (United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Administration).

    Quite possible. Fraud is as old as humanity, maybe even older. Every society has its fraudsters, but they are more successful in some social structures than in others.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    More than possible. It explains how the 2 million evacuated beyond the Urals at the beginning of the War have been counted to make the sacred six.
  185. @Adam
    I live in a region with a climate comparable to Siberia and third worlders from all corners of the earth are clamoring to come here. Other than being economically depressed, there's no reason Siberia or anywhere in Russia could never be a target for enrichment.

    https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-siberian-curse-does-russias-geography-doom-its-chances-for-market-reform/

    Only the Soviet Union—a totalitarian state with coercion at its core, with its highly centralized control of production and redistribution of resources, and with absolutely no sense of cost—could conquer Siberia. […] By the 1970s the Soviet Union had urbanized its coldest regions to an extent far beyond that of any other country in the world. At precisely the time when people in North America and western Europe were moving to warmer regions of their countries, the Soviets were moving in the opposite direction.

    https://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/wilderness-resources/blogs/russia-offers-free-land-bid-settle-remote-wilderness

    Families are also encouraged to apply –– a household of five will receive over 12 acres Critics … say it will only increase the amount of Chinese workers immigrating in masses across the border to work on newly-developed Russian farms.

    • Replies: @melanf

    Only the Soviet Union—a totalitarian state with coercion at its core, with its highly centralized control of production and redistribution of resources, and with absolutely no sense of cost—could conquer Siberia.
     
    This is the most idiotic statement I've ever seen on this forum.
  186. It can try to be a global military superpower, a status it achieved in the 20th century despite a weak economy thanks to its armaments and creative strength harnessed by fearsomely repressive regimes. It can accept the status of a regional power, increasingly turning into China’s junior ally and natural-resource base. Finally, it could establish itself as part of a greater Europe, following ideas first developed in the early 20th century by Halford Mackinder, one of the fathers of geopolitics.

    I don’t think he’s read Mackinder (who is not exactly current literature as far as human geographers are concerned). The three ‘choices’ he offers are contrived and fraudulent for ‘a that.

  187. @Adam
    I live in a region with a climate comparable to Siberia and third worlders from all corners of the earth are clamoring to come here. Other than being economically depressed, there's no reason Siberia or anywhere in Russia could never be a target for enrichment.

    Many “refugees” are actually looking for freebies. In Russia you don’t get any, you have to work. So, decent third-worlders might want to go to Siberia, but the lazy scum would flock to Germany, Sweden, and other suicidal countries where they get something for nothing.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Stating the bleeding obvious.

    *ALL* of those dirty bastards infiltrating Europe only come to suck from the taxpayers' teat.

    No other reason.
    , @Anonymous
    A little home truth.

    'Decent' thirdworlders ie 'decent' darkies, like unicorn shit, don't actually exist.
  188. @Adam
    I live in a region with a climate comparable to Siberia and third worlders from all corners of the earth are clamoring to come here. Other than being economically depressed, there's no reason Siberia or anywhere in Russia could never be a target for enrichment.

    I live in a region with a climate comparable to Siberia and third worlders from all corners of the earth are clamoring to come here. Other than being economically depressed, there’s no reason Siberia or anywhere in Russia could never be a target for enrichment.

    On Sakhalin, the average monthly salary (after tax) at purchasing power parity is more than $ 3,000. In 2017, the population of Sakhalin increased by 51 people, but this was the first time in many years – before that, the population continuously decreased for many years (despite high wages).

    Where do you live, Alaska?

  189. @Dmitry
    Even if you never wanted to live in Germany, it is an extreme advantage for your life to attain a German passport.

    Just as a tourist, imagine how much money you will save in not buying visas, over a whole life?

    And of course, for young people - you could study for free in Stockholm University, or work next week in Paris (all without applying for any visa).

    Even tuition fee for somewhere like a British university (University of Cambridge), is more than twice cheaper if you have an EU country passport.

    So, currently, in University of Cambridge, it is £33,342 fee per year for MPhil for non-EU student in e.g. standard price course for them.

    But all you need is an EU passport, and the price is only £12,255.

    https://www.graduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses/directory/egegmpmsl/finance
    How unfair is this system?

    That might be true for Kazakhstan citizens. With Russian citizenship you don’t need visas to ~50-60 countries, with the US citizenship you go visa-free to ~100 countries. You still need special permits to work (to be paid, that is) in all of them with either passport, though.

    BTW, PhD programs in the UK are not worth even reduced price, unless the degree certificate is the only thing you want. You get a degree there in three years regardless of your actual performance (only being dead or in jail can prevent that). In decent American Universities grad students get a permission to defend only after they have at least one first-author paper accepted. My grad students usually get more.

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    With Russian
     
    Maybe for people travelling as a tourist in South America, Africa and some parts of Asia/Near East.

    For being in Europe and/or North America,one of the worst. The only compensation is that the Schengen visa is somewhat good value and convenient.


    programs in the UK are not worth even reduced price, unless the degree certificate
     
    Sitting in the cafes and libraries of an ancient university for a year, memorizing a few textbooks, and improving your resume at the same moment - it would not bad at all.

    As you can see, the price difference by nationality for this is just ridiculous and illustration of what can be the value of certain passports.

    , @for-the-record
    PhD programs in the UK are not worth even reduced price, unless the degree certificate is the only thing you want. You get a degree there in three years regardless of your actual performance

    Maybe in liberal arts, but not in sciences. My son got his Ph.D. in a (very) "hard" science at a Scottish University, and it certainly wasn't gifted to him. He got it in 4 years, which was the minimum period possible and yes, by that time, he had already co-authored a published paper.
  190. @AnonFromTN
    It’s very different in Russia. These are not recent runaways from shithole countries, they are culturally Russian, whatever their genetics. Russians have centuries-long history of living side-by-side with different nations and races in the same empire, so they are used to it and consider peaceful co-existence normal. There are tribalist nuts in Russia, but they are fringe. More civilized Russians know that Russian is not a nationality, it’s a state of mind. That’s what these people have. As a former military commander of Gorlovka Bezler said: “My mother is Ukrainian, my father German. So, who am I? A Russian!”

    Based Civic Imperialism!

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Not exactly. Imperialism is based (openly or covertly, i.e., hypocritically) on the division of humans into ubermensch and untermensch. So, it is a typical European (and American) approach, when nobody worries about murdered aborigines, as aborigines are considered untermensch. The aggression against Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and Syria clearly showed this.

    Russian approach since the imperial times was different: inclusion. Noble families of various nations (Georgians, Armenians, Ukrainians, all Asians, etc.) were included by tsars into Russian nobility with all privileges this entailed. In Soviet times the privileges of nobility were cancelled (like in the US), but ordinary people were treated the same, regardless of nationality or race. Same with culture. Say, Chingiz Aitmatov’s novels are a part of Russian literature (although he was theoretically a Kyrgyz writer and wrote them in Kyrgyz in parallel), same as Fazil Iskander’s (an Abkhazian) novels. Of course, it reflects virtual absence of Kyrgyz and Abkhazian high culture, but also the inclusiveness of Russian culture. Both enriched it, if you ask me. The oldest example is Pushkin: in a way, he was the founder of modern Russian literature, and nobody minds his Ethiopian origins (his great-grandfather was an Ethiopian brought to Russia by Peter the Great).
  191. @Sean

    https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-siberian-curse-does-russias-geography-doom-its-chances-for-market-reform/

    Only the Soviet Union—a totalitarian state with coercion at its core, with its highly centralized control of production and redistribution of resources, and with absolutely no sense of cost—could conquer Siberia. [...] By the 1970s the Soviet Union had urbanized its coldest regions to an extent far beyond that of any other country in the world. At precisely the time when people in North America and western Europe were moving to warmer regions of their countries, the Soviets were moving in the opposite direction.
     

    https://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/wilderness-resources/blogs/russia-offers-free-land-bid-settle-remote-wilderness

    Families are also encouraged to apply –– a household of five will receive over 12 acres Critics ... say it will only increase the amount of Chinese workers immigrating in masses across the border to work on newly-developed Russian farms.
     

    Only the Soviet Union—a totalitarian state with coercion at its core, with its highly centralized control of production and redistribution of resources, and with absolutely no sense of cost—could conquer Siberia.

    This is the most idiotic statement I’ve ever seen on this forum.

    • Replies: @Sean
    https://siberiantimes.com/other/others/features/unique-19th-century-english-steam-engine-found-in-the-depths-of-siberian-taiga/

    Of course there were people out in Siberia before the Soviet Union existed, but really the reason for people to be in Siberia is for resource extraction, there does not need to be cities. Canada does not have all these isolated cities where the temperature is never above minus 15 in the winter, because in Canada the settlement was more organic and spontaneous, they went where the living was best. In Peter Turchin's interesting book War and Peace and War he seems to portray the expansion of land hungry Russian peasants into lands to the south, often against the will of the Russian authorities, very differently to the Russian expansion into Siberia, which was more of a military expedition.

    The populating of Siberia to the extent it now is populated was excessive and a misallocation of human resources away from infrastructure that could connect them to markets is what I read the Brookings piece as saying. There was a RT documentary about an American academic living and working in provincial Russia (not Siberia) while she researched Soviet officialdom in the archives. Asked about her impressions this woman said that Russia is a very under-administered country, that needs more and better organisation. She noted there are villages that looked as if they belong in the 19th century, lacking proper sanitation ect. There can be strategic reason for getting people into Siberia admittedly but Russia's economy is also strategically important.

  192. @german_reader
    I know very little about homeschooling in general, my impression was that it's mainly something for people concerned about the degeneracy of modern culture (e.g. that their children might be exposed to pornography on the smartphones of classmates).
    Or possibly for hardcore religious people who don't want their children taught about evolution etc.
    I admit though to being uninformed about the subject.

    Home schoolers are often (probably even usually) religious people concerned about degeneracy, but they have further concerns.

    Some of them live in “diverse” areas but are of modest means and thus cannot afford to send their children to private schools.

    Others have gifted children and don’t live in an area where public schools offer gifted education.

    There are also those who simply get into feuds with the local public school administration for various reasons. I am friends with a lawyer who was home schooled for one year because her late mother got into some kind of feud with the school board 20 years ago.

    There is genuine concern about pedagogy as well. The “Saxon Math” curriculum, which they allege is superior, is very popular. They often use old-fashioned, but superior, instructional books for orthography.

    Most home schoolers cooperate with other home schoolers, and they make sure their children participate in other activities (church groups, boy scouts, sports leagues, etc.) so they are properly socialized.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
  193. @Adam
    >As far as I know the genetic differences within the Russian ethnic group are more significant than in other indigenous ethnic groups in Europe.

    Germany has a comparable history, eastern Germans are largely assimilated Slavs and southern Germans have a central European phenotype. 'Pure' Germans live in the north-west of the country. There are also significant genetic differences between north and south in Italy, Spain, and France (even when discounting the moorish component, which is greatly exaggerated).

    Germany has a comparable history, eastern Germans are largely assimilated Slavs and southern Germans have a central European phenotype. ‘Pure’ Germans live in the north-west of the country.

    In Cologne it seemed to me a significant part of the local population – the descendants of the Roman colonists (they had a completely Italian faces).

    • Replies: @Adam
    Even in France the number of actual Roman colonists was quite small. I imagine in Germany their genetic impact is basically zero. Germany has had plenty of internal migration, and I imagine some of the people you're seeing are descendants of southern Germans, or perhaps of actual Italian guest workers.

    Also, I've seen native Scandinavians with a Mediterranean appearance. Sometimes people differ from the predominant phenotype of their region.
  194. @DFH
    Based Civic Imperialism!

    Not exactly. Imperialism is based (openly or covertly, i.e., hypocritically) on the division of humans into ubermensch and untermensch. So, it is a typical European (and American) approach, when nobody worries about murdered aborigines, as aborigines are considered untermensch. The aggression against Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and Syria clearly showed this.

    Russian approach since the imperial times was different: inclusion. Noble families of various nations (Georgians, Armenians, Ukrainians, all Asians, etc.) were included by tsars into Russian nobility with all privileges this entailed. In Soviet times the privileges of nobility were cancelled (like in the US), but ordinary people were treated the same, regardless of nationality or race. Same with culture. Say, Chingiz Aitmatov’s novels are a part of Russian literature (although he was theoretically a Kyrgyz writer and wrote them in Kyrgyz in parallel), same as Fazil Iskander’s (an Abkhazian) novels. Of course, it reflects virtual absence of Kyrgyz and Abkhazian high culture, but also the inclusiveness of Russian culture. Both enriched it, if you ask me. The oldest example is Pushkin: in a way, he was the founder of modern Russian literature, and nobody minds his Ethiopian origins (his great-grandfather was an Ethiopian brought to Russia by Peter the Great).

    • Replies: @DFH
    Russia has always been multicultural and enriched by its vibrant diversity
  195. @Thorfinnsson
    I see no evidence that the German car industry is being sacrificed, though obviously "dieselgate" should've been swept under the rug. Or perhaps the responsible executives should've been hailed as heroes.

    I understand there are also homo-sexuals in Germany who wish to eliminate the famed unlimited speed on the Autobahn, but that won't kill the car industry.

    The German car industry is now gearing up to annihilate Tesla, but that's a different story.

    Phasing out black coal mining in Germany has been planned for decades, and for the same reason as in Great Britain--it's uneconomic.

    What shows that Germany isn't serious about climate change is shutting down nuclear power, the best form of of clean power. This led to a sharp increase in coal consumption, and perversely brown coal consumption which is far dirtier. And Germany is set to keep mining coal until 2040.

    And in any case ending coal mining is irrelevant from a climate perspective if it is simply substituted with imported coal. Britain has been importing Australian coal ever since Thatcher crushed the miners (though a lot of the coal fleet has since been replaced by gas).

    I see no evidence that the German car industry is being sacrificed, though obviously “dieselgate” should’ve been swept under the rug. Or perhaps the responsible executives should’ve been hailed as heroes.

    First they came for the diesel which produces less carbon emissions than gasoline engine.
    Than they came for the gasoline engine.

    Head of VW, the biggest German car maker said that they can handle that thanks to their E-platform and the Chinese market, but the former means job losses even if they are successful and the latter suffers from overcapacity.
    https://www.tichyseinblick.de/wirtschaft/mobilitaet/die-quittung-fuer-den-dieselwahnsinn/

    This led to a sharp increase in coal consumption, and perversely brown coal consumption which is far dirtier.

    Brown coal production and consumption in Germany has been declining since 2012/2013.

    And Germany is set to keep mining coal until 2040.

    Hambach Forest was supposed to be cleared for the sake of brown coal mining, but that did not work out despite support from the two biggest parties. Do not understimate the ability of Greens and friends to derail coal mining.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Reduction of coal use, is very positive news.

    All modern countries are trying to reduce their consumption of coal, in order to avoid the ecological disasters of China and Poland.

    And of course, one of the main improvements in China will occur as they are able to convert more of their electricity production to gas.

    First they came for the diesel which produces less carbon emissions than gasoline engine.

     

    Carbon emissions are not really relevant for any normal citizens.

    The problem for normal citizens is the toxic component of exhaust emissions, and the impact on public health.
  196. @melanf

    Germany has a comparable history, eastern Germans are largely assimilated Slavs and southern Germans have a central European phenotype. ‘Pure’ Germans live in the north-west of the country.
     
    In Cologne it seemed to me a significant part of the local population - the descendants of the Roman colonists (they had a completely Italian faces).

    Even in France the number of actual Roman colonists was quite small. I imagine in Germany their genetic impact is basically zero. Germany has had plenty of internal migration, and I imagine some of the people you’re seeing are descendants of southern Germans, or perhaps of actual Italian guest workers.

    Also, I’ve seen native Scandinavians with a Mediterranean appearance. Sometimes people differ from the predominant phenotype of their region.

  197. @Mitleser

    I see no evidence that the German car industry is being sacrificed, though obviously “dieselgate” should’ve been swept under the rug. Or perhaps the responsible executives should’ve been hailed as heroes.
     
    First they came for the diesel which produces less carbon emissions than gasoline engine.
    Than they came for the gasoline engine.

    https://twitter.com/EWGnetwork/status/1074959408852033536

    Head of VW, the biggest German car maker said that they can handle that thanks to their E-platform and the Chinese market, but the former means job losses even if they are successful and the latter suffers from overcapacity.
    https://www.tichyseinblick.de/wirtschaft/mobilitaet/die-quittung-fuer-den-dieselwahnsinn/

    This led to a sharp increase in coal consumption, and perversely brown coal consumption which is far dirtier.
     
    Brown coal production and consumption in Germany has been declining since 2012/2013.

    And Germany is set to keep mining coal until 2040.
     
    Hambach Forest was supposed to be cleared for the sake of brown coal mining, but that did not work out despite support from the two biggest parties. Do not understimate the ability of Greens and friends to derail coal mining.

    Reduction of coal use, is very positive news.

    All modern countries are trying to reduce their consumption of coal, in order to avoid the ecological disasters of China and Poland.

    And of course, one of the main improvements in China will occur as they are able to convert more of their electricity production to gas.

    First they came for the diesel which produces less carbon emissions than gasoline engine.

    Carbon emissions are not really relevant for any normal citizens.

    The problem for normal citizens is the toxic component of exhaust emissions, and the impact on public health.

    • Replies: @Mitleser

    Reduction of coal use, is very positive news.
     
    If you have non-volatile replacements.
    Otherwise, it can be quite problematic.

    Carbon emissions are not really relevant for any normal citizens.
     
    They are once limiting them becomes a national policy.
  198. @melanf

    Pure Russians (although pure nationalities exist only in the minds of demented rabid nationalists) look very much like Northern Germans: blue eyes, blond hair, relatively small nose, widish face.
     
    There are (since the early middle ages) two different types of "pure" Russians: Northern Russians and Southern Russians. They have a common language and culture, but different origins. Here are anecdotal illustration of the differences of the two types (Arkhangelsk and Moscow):

    https://a.radikal.ru/a25/1812/61/209e5f36bc98.jpg

    https://a.radikal.ru/a34/1812/61/55a30e8e480a.jpg

    As you can see the Northern Russians are very similar in appearance to the Scandinavians (both the German-speaking and Finnish-speaking). Southern Russians are indistinguishable from Рoles and Slovaks. "Pure" Northern Russians live in the deserted North and their number is small, but it is they who conquered Siberia in the 16th-17th centuries, and therefore the Russian population of the Urals, Siberia and the Far East has noticeable "Northern" features.

    But in general, the population in Russia has vary diverse phenotypes

     

    As far as I know the genetic differences within the Russian ethnic group are more significant than in other indigenous ethnic groups in Europe.

    …Southern Russians are indistinguishable from Рoles and Slovaks.

    In general yes, but at least in Slovakia we have quite a few looking like the northern type, we call them ‘cmarove’ (sour milk, because they don’t tan). Some of our best athletes come from that group.

    Central Europe has a lot of genetic variety and yet people can generally spot one’s ethnic origin quickly by the look and manners: Germans look slightly constipated, Czechs look unserious, Magyars arrogant, Poles shifty, Russians take up too much space, Ukrainians like they just woke up after getting drunk…no disrespect and those are exaggerations, but stereotypes exist for a reason…

    • Replies: @Mikhail

    In general yes, but at least in Slovakia we have quite a few looking like the northern type, we call them ‘cmarove’ (sour milk, because they don’t tan). Some of our best athletes come from that group.
     
    For sure. Have come across a good share of them.
  199. @AnonFromTN
    That might be true for Kazakhstan citizens. With Russian citizenship you don’t need visas to ~50-60 countries, with the US citizenship you go visa-free to ~100 countries. You still need special permits to work (to be paid, that is) in all of them with either passport, though.

    BTW, PhD programs in the UK are not worth even reduced price, unless the degree certificate is the only thing you want. You get a degree there in three years regardless of your actual performance (only being dead or in jail can prevent that). In decent American Universities grad students get a permission to defend only after they have at least one first-author paper accepted. My grad students usually get more.

    With Russian

    Maybe for people travelling as a tourist in South America, Africa and some parts of Asia/Near East.

    For being in Europe and/or North America,one of the worst. The only compensation is that the Schengen visa is somewhat good value and convenient.

    programs in the UK are not worth even reduced price, unless the degree certificate

    Sitting in the cafes and libraries of an ancient university for a year, memorizing a few textbooks, and improving your resume at the same moment – it would not bad at all.

    As you can see, the price difference by nationality for this is just ridiculous and illustration of what can be the value of certain passports.

  200. @Art Deco
    Less than 2% of the working population in the U.S. is to be found in the agricultural sector. About 4% works in the construction sector. Service sector and administrative employees - the people you're calling 'fucking parasites' - make up more than 80% of the workforce in just about any occidental country.

    The fucking parasites I’m talking about are worthless useless cunt Paki pizza delivery boys, taxi drivers, curry waiters and the rest of that turd crew.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    If they actually were 'parasites', no one would be paying them to make deliveries, drive taxis or wait tables (occupations which account for 2.5% of the workforce in the U.S.)
  201. @AnonFromTN
    Many “refugees” are actually looking for freebies. In Russia you don’t get any, you have to work. So, decent third-worlders might want to go to Siberia, but the lazy scum would flock to Germany, Sweden, and other suicidal countries where they get something for nothing.

    Stating the bleeding obvious.

    *ALL* of those dirty bastards infiltrating Europe only come to suck from the taxpayers’ teat.

    No other reason.

  202. @AnonFromTN
    Many “refugees” are actually looking for freebies. In Russia you don’t get any, you have to work. So, decent third-worlders might want to go to Siberia, but the lazy scum would flock to Germany, Sweden, and other suicidal countries where they get something for nothing.

    A little home truth.

    ‘Decent’ thirdworlders ie ‘decent’ darkies, like unicorn shit, don’t actually exist.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    There are lots of decent East Asians, with strong work ethic, respect for education, and without any murderous religious beliefs. They tend to work their asses off to send their children to the best colleges. That’s why they integrate in the US and Europe easily and virtually never cause resentment of the locals (unlike some others we all know). Even in the US South (as bloody-mindedly conservative as you can be w/o becoming a chimp) Vietnamese wives of the US servicemen were accepted w/o a murmur.

    What’s more, in Rome I saw Arabs keeping their little stores open and selling good stuff after lazy locals closed. In my book, they honestly earn their profits. Yes, in the same Rome (and in many other European cities) you see annoying dark hawkers of various trash in the streets, who by rights should be shot on sight. But I saw the same kind of annoying Chinese hawkers in Beijing on Tiananmen Square (with their “looka, looka, very cheapa” cry). Thank goodness, they disappeared whenever Chinese police was in sight.

    So, in my experience, there are decent people and trash everywhere. Don’t forget that when it comes to migration, there is self-selection process. In some places decent people stay where they are, whereas trash moves in search of free handouts to Europe. The really bad thing is that they are getting those free handouts in some countries. But the governments that encourage trash were elected by lily-white locals, so they are equally guilty.
  203. @melanf

    Only the Soviet Union—a totalitarian state with coercion at its core, with its highly centralized control of production and redistribution of resources, and with absolutely no sense of cost—could conquer Siberia.
     
    This is the most idiotic statement I've ever seen on this forum.

    https://siberiantimes.com/other/others/features/unique-19th-century-english-steam-engine-found-in-the-depths-of-siberian-taiga/

    Of course there were people out in Siberia before the Soviet Union existed, but really the reason for people to be in Siberia is for resource extraction, there does not need to be cities. Canada does not have all these isolated cities where the temperature is never above minus 15 in the winter, because in Canada the settlement was more organic and spontaneous, they went where the living was best. In Peter Turchin’s interesting book War and Peace and War he seems to portray the expansion of land hungry Russian peasants into lands to the south, often against the will of the Russian authorities, very differently to the Russian expansion into Siberia, which was more of a military expedition.

    The populating of Siberia to the extent it now is populated was excessive and a misallocation of human resources away from infrastructure that could connect them to markets is what I read the Brookings piece as saying. There was a RT documentary about an American academic living and working in provincial Russia (not Siberia) while she researched Soviet officialdom in the archives. Asked about her impressions this woman said that Russia is a very under-administered country, that needs more and better organisation. She noted there are villages that looked as if they belong in the 19th century, lacking proper sanitation ect. There can be strategic reason for getting people into Siberia admittedly but Russia’s economy is also strategically important.

    • Replies: @melanf

    Of course there were people out in Siberia before the Soviet Union existed, but really the reason for people to be in Siberia is for resource extraction, there does not need to be cities.
     
    It's nonsense.

    The median monthly salary in Russia (blue - more than 2000 dollars in purchasing power parity, green-more than a 1000 dollars). Where do people make better money?
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/Median_wage_april_2017.png

    Changes in Russia's population
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DUNnyEsW0AAjbUc.jpg

    Well your see


    expansion of land hungry Russian peasants into lands to the south, often against the will of the Russian authorities, very differently to the Russian expansion into Siberia, which was more of a military expedition.
     
    Siberia was conquered by pirates during private military expeditions.
    https://collectionerus.ru/media/items-large/c/cu/cuhstmsqmfvpyf5u.jpg
    Later there was a resettlement to Siberia of peasants (including Germans, Poles, Latvians, etc.). The southern lands of Russia were conquered by the state during the bloody wars, in the South "state" colonization played a much greater role than in Siberia.
  204. @Dmitry
    Reduction of coal use, is very positive news.

    All modern countries are trying to reduce their consumption of coal, in order to avoid the ecological disasters of China and Poland.

    And of course, one of the main improvements in China will occur as they are able to convert more of their electricity production to gas.

    First they came for the diesel which produces less carbon emissions than gasoline engine.

     

    Carbon emissions are not really relevant for any normal citizens.

    The problem for normal citizens is the toxic component of exhaust emissions, and the impact on public health.

    Reduction of coal use, is very positive news.

    If you have non-volatile replacements.
    Otherwise, it can be quite problematic.

    Carbon emissions are not really relevant for any normal citizens.

    They are once limiting them becomes a national policy.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Converting coal electricity station to gas electricity stations, is usually not incredibly expensive, and they have completed this work in less than a year in some scenarios.

    Supplying the gas to the stations, can be the less simple and more expensive part, depending on the country.

    But government should be forced to view transition to gas as a high priority. Improving air quality should be a very high priority of any government that is responsive to its citizens.

    Cleaner air has a significant effect on improving quality of life of ordinary citizens, even for those who (as a majority) are lucky not to develop any serious health problems from the air pollution.

  205. @AnonFromTN
    That might be true for Kazakhstan citizens. With Russian citizenship you don’t need visas to ~50-60 countries, with the US citizenship you go visa-free to ~100 countries. You still need special permits to work (to be paid, that is) in all of them with either passport, though.

    BTW, PhD programs in the UK are not worth even reduced price, unless the degree certificate is the only thing you want. You get a degree there in three years regardless of your actual performance (only being dead or in jail can prevent that). In decent American Universities grad students get a permission to defend only after they have at least one first-author paper accepted. My grad students usually get more.

    PhD programs in the UK are not worth even reduced price, unless the degree certificate is the only thing you want. You get a degree there in three years regardless of your actual performance

    Maybe in liberal arts, but not in sciences. My son got his Ph.D. in a (very) “hard” science at a Scottish University, and it certainly wasn’t gifted to him. He got it in 4 years, which was the minimum period possible and yes, by that time, he had already co-authored a published paper.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Maybe Scottish system is better than English. In Oxford and Cambridge totally unqualified people with dismal productivity get PhDs in hard sciences in three years. Unlike German system, which requires a two-year Masters program before you enter a PhD program, Oxford and Cambridge do not have this requirement. Anyway, I never go by the degrees of applicants, but look at their publication record. Even that is not fool-proof: sub-par people in good productive labs get more publications than they deserve.
  206. @Anonymous
    A little home truth.

    'Decent' thirdworlders ie 'decent' darkies, like unicorn shit, don't actually exist.

    There are lots of decent East Asians, with strong work ethic, respect for education, and without any murderous religious beliefs. They tend to work their asses off to send their children to the best colleges. That’s why they integrate in the US and Europe easily and virtually never cause resentment of the locals (unlike some others we all know). Even in the US South (as bloody-mindedly conservative as you can be w/o becoming a chimp) Vietnamese wives of the US servicemen were accepted w/o a murmur.

    What’s more, in Rome I saw Arabs keeping their little stores open and selling good stuff after lazy locals closed. In my book, they honestly earn their profits. Yes, in the same Rome (and in many other European cities) you see annoying dark hawkers of various trash in the streets, who by rights should be shot on sight. But I saw the same kind of annoying Chinese hawkers in Beijing on Tiananmen Square (with their “looka, looka, very cheapa” cry). Thank goodness, they disappeared whenever Chinese police was in sight.

    So, in my experience, there are decent people and trash everywhere. Don’t forget that when it comes to migration, there is self-selection process. In some places decent people stay where they are, whereas trash moves in search of free handouts to Europe. The really bad thing is that they are getting those free handouts in some countries. But the governments that encourage trash were elected by lily-white locals, so they are equally guilty.

  207. @for-the-record
    PhD programs in the UK are not worth even reduced price, unless the degree certificate is the only thing you want. You get a degree there in three years regardless of your actual performance

    Maybe in liberal arts, but not in sciences. My son got his Ph.D. in a (very) "hard" science at a Scottish University, and it certainly wasn't gifted to him. He got it in 4 years, which was the minimum period possible and yes, by that time, he had already co-authored a published paper.

    Maybe Scottish system is better than English. In Oxford and Cambridge totally unqualified people with dismal productivity get PhDs in hard sciences in three years. Unlike German system, which requires a two-year Masters program before you enter a PhD program, Oxford and Cambridge do not have this requirement. Anyway, I never go by the degrees of applicants, but look at their publication record. Even that is not fool-proof: sub-par people in good productive labs get more publications than they deserve.

  208. @Anonymous
    The fucking parasites I'm talking about are worthless useless cunt Paki pizza delivery boys, taxi drivers, curry waiters and the rest of that turd crew.

    If they actually were ‘parasites’, no one would be paying them to make deliveries, drive taxis or wait tables (occupations which account for 2.5% of the workforce in the U.S.)

  209. @Mitleser

    Reduction of coal use, is very positive news.
     
    If you have non-volatile replacements.
    Otherwise, it can be quite problematic.

    Carbon emissions are not really relevant for any normal citizens.
     
    They are once limiting them becomes a national policy.

    Converting coal electricity station to gas electricity stations, is usually not incredibly expensive, and they have completed this work in less than a year in some scenarios.

    Supplying the gas to the stations, can be the less simple and more expensive part, depending on the country.

    But government should be forced to view transition to gas as a high priority. Improving air quality should be a very high priority of any government that is responsive to its citizens.

    Cleaner air has a significant effect on improving quality of life of ordinary citizens, even for those who (as a majority) are lucky not to develop any serious health problems from the air pollution.

  210. @AnonFromTN
    Not exactly. Imperialism is based (openly or covertly, i.e., hypocritically) on the division of humans into ubermensch and untermensch. So, it is a typical European (and American) approach, when nobody worries about murdered aborigines, as aborigines are considered untermensch. The aggression against Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and Syria clearly showed this.

    Russian approach since the imperial times was different: inclusion. Noble families of various nations (Georgians, Armenians, Ukrainians, all Asians, etc.) were included by tsars into Russian nobility with all privileges this entailed. In Soviet times the privileges of nobility were cancelled (like in the US), but ordinary people were treated the same, regardless of nationality or race. Same with culture. Say, Chingiz Aitmatov’s novels are a part of Russian literature (although he was theoretically a Kyrgyz writer and wrote them in Kyrgyz in parallel), same as Fazil Iskander’s (an Abkhazian) novels. Of course, it reflects virtual absence of Kyrgyz and Abkhazian high culture, but also the inclusiveness of Russian culture. Both enriched it, if you ask me. The oldest example is Pushkin: in a way, he was the founder of modern Russian literature, and nobody minds his Ethiopian origins (his great-grandfather was an Ethiopian brought to Russia by Peter the Great).

    Russia has always been multicultural and enriched by its vibrant diversity

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Yes. The key thing is that this diversity is natural, it was tested by centuries of coexistence, in contrast to globalists’ lie of “multi-culti” that is forced, contrived, and involves bringing millions of culturally incompatible people into established social structures.

    Not only Russians learned to live peacefully next to the people of different cultures and races, but these people also learned to live in peace with Russians. It helps that Russia (the Empire, the USSR, and the RF today) did not bring “democracy” on the heads of others in 500 kg TNT installments.
    , @melanf

    Russia has always been multicultural and enriched by its vibrant diversity
     
    As well as Switzerland (or, for example, China). But this is not the" diversity " of the modern type.
  211. @DFH
    Russia has always been multicultural and enriched by its vibrant diversity

    Yes. The key thing is that this diversity is natural, it was tested by centuries of coexistence, in contrast to globalists’ lie of “multi-culti” that is forced, contrived, and involves bringing millions of culturally incompatible people into established social structures.

    Not only Russians learned to live peacefully next to the people of different cultures and races, but these people also learned to live in peace with Russians. It helps that Russia (the Empire, the USSR, and the RF today) did not bring “democracy” on the heads of others in 500 kg TNT installments.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    Orthodoxy played a central role in the Russian 'Weltanschauung'. 'Love thy neighbor' was taken seriously and that induced a basic respect for human dignity.
    A little correction. Recent research showed that Pushkin's great-grandfather, Abram Petrovic Gannibal, was not Ethiopian, but from Central Africa (Cameroon). Prisoner to Constantinople, he was ransomed by Sava Vladislavich-Raguzinsky, the Ambassador of Peter the Great to Constantinople, brought to Russia, baptized by the Tsar who took him into his household. He married into Russian nobility (ironically into a branch of Scandinavian and German origin). His son's Osip daughter was to marry Sergei Lvovich Pushkin and have Alexander.
  212. @Sean
    https://siberiantimes.com/other/others/features/unique-19th-century-english-steam-engine-found-in-the-depths-of-siberian-taiga/

    Of course there were people out in Siberia before the Soviet Union existed, but really the reason for people to be in Siberia is for resource extraction, there does not need to be cities. Canada does not have all these isolated cities where the temperature is never above minus 15 in the winter, because in Canada the settlement was more organic and spontaneous, they went where the living was best. In Peter Turchin's interesting book War and Peace and War he seems to portray the expansion of land hungry Russian peasants into lands to the south, often against the will of the Russian authorities, very differently to the Russian expansion into Siberia, which was more of a military expedition.

    The populating of Siberia to the extent it now is populated was excessive and a misallocation of human resources away from infrastructure that could connect them to markets is what I read the Brookings piece as saying. There was a RT documentary about an American academic living and working in provincial Russia (not Siberia) while she researched Soviet officialdom in the archives. Asked about her impressions this woman said that Russia is a very under-administered country, that needs more and better organisation. She noted there are villages that looked as if they belong in the 19th century, lacking proper sanitation ect. There can be strategic reason for getting people into Siberia admittedly but Russia's economy is also strategically important.

    Of course there were people out in Siberia before the Soviet Union existed, but really the reason for people to be in Siberia is for resource extraction, there does not need to be cities.

    It’s nonsense.

    The median monthly salary in Russia (blue – more than 2000 dollars in purchasing power parity, green-more than a 1000 dollars). Where do people make better money?
    Changes in Russia’s population
    Well your see

    expansion of land hungry Russian peasants into lands to the south, often against the will of the Russian authorities, very differently to the Russian expansion into Siberia, which was more of a military expedition.

    Siberia was conquered by pirates during private military expeditions. Later there was a resettlement to Siberia of peasants (including Germans, Poles, Latvians, etc.). The southern lands of Russia were conquered by the state during the bloody wars, in the South “state” colonization played a much greater role than in Siberia.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    Russian expansion in Siberia follows shortly after the conquest of Kazan by the first Tsar, Ivan IV. It was a state policy implemented by all subsequent Tsars.
  213. @DFH
    Russia has always been multicultural and enriched by its vibrant diversity

    Russia has always been multicultural and enriched by its vibrant diversity

    As well as Switzerland (or, for example, China). But this is not the” diversity ” of the modern type.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    I think the point was rather that accepting a self-definition of the sort "We're all mongrels, everybody can belong with the right values" could easily lead to being manipulated into acceptance of the "modern", destructive kind of "diversity".
    Full-scale ethnonationalism (let alone the racial obsessions of neutral) would obviously be dangerous for Russia. But at some point boundaries need to be drawn.

    @Big red scary, Thorfinnsson, AP: thanks for your informative replies about home schooling!
  214. @Beckow

    ...Southern Russians are indistinguishable from Рoles and Slovaks.
     
    In general yes, but at least in Slovakia we have quite a few looking like the northern type, we call them 'cmarove' (sour milk, because they don't tan). Some of our best athletes come from that group.

    Central Europe has a lot of genetic variety and yet people can generally spot one's ethnic origin quickly by the look and manners: Germans look slightly constipated, Czechs look unserious, Magyars arrogant, Poles shifty, Russians take up too much space, Ukrainians like they just woke up after getting drunk...no disrespect and those are exaggerations, but stereotypes exist for a reason...

    In general yes, but at least in Slovakia we have quite a few looking like the northern type, we call them ‘cmarove’ (sour milk, because they don’t tan). Some of our best athletes come from that group.

    For sure. Have come across a good share of them.

  215. @melanf

    Russia has always been multicultural and enriched by its vibrant diversity
     
    As well as Switzerland (or, for example, China). But this is not the" diversity " of the modern type.

    I think the point was rather that accepting a self-definition of the sort “We’re all mongrels, everybody can belong with the right values” could easily lead to being manipulated into acceptance of the “modern”, destructive kind of “diversity”.
    Full-scale ethnonationalism (let alone the racial obsessions of neutral) would obviously be dangerous for Russia. But at some point boundaries need to be drawn.

    @Big red scary, Thorfinnsson, AP: thanks for your informative replies about home schooling!

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN

    But at some point boundaries need to be drawn.
     
    The boundaries are natural: cultural compatibility. Whoever isn’t compatible should go back to whateverthefuckinstan s/he came from. These should have been the boundaries in Europe, too, but European elites decided to kill Europe as we know it.
  216. @Sean

    The truth is, NATO truly is obsolete. Russia isn’t going to invade Europe and Germans are correct in dissing Trump’s retarded rants about muh military spending.
     
    The Germans have perfected a helpless kitten act, but will find that America is slowly but surely withdrawing from Europe to face China. If Germany persists they will draw Russia into aggressive moves westward, just as surely a Russia's weakness drew Nato into Ukraine and Georgia.

    Stalin planned to ship Germans off to the Soviet Union and use them to teach Russians work discipline (ie having a drink after the work is done, as opposed to drinking instead of doing the work). Perhaps Germans are the missing ingredient for Putin.

    https://youtu.be/tOfhYQ1SwLk?t=247

    Stalin planned to ship Germans off to the Soviet Union and use them to teach Russians work discipline (ie having a drink after the work is done, as opposed to drinking instead of doing the work). Perhaps Germans are the missing ingredient for Putin.

    Putin is known to be a Germanphile. On plans with a WW II connect, a US aired documentary highlights that some of the Nazis recognized that their living space plans for the east would be problematical on account of not having enough Germans. Hence, it was argued to recruit healthy, light skinned, blond haired, blue eye looking non-Germans in the east.

  217. @AP
    A friend who homeschools is a traditional (Anglican) Christian and also a scientist. He is obviously not anti-evolution but wants to avoid subjecting his kids to the degeneracy of mass modern culture.

    A friend who homeschools is a traditional (Anglican) Christian and also a scientist. He is obviously not anti-evolution but wants to avoid subjecting his kids to the degeneracy of mass modern culture.

    That can work in a shielded surrounding. I’ve a religious Christian friend, who brought his kid up in a religious private school. At some point, when junior got into double digits, he was put into a quality public school system. The idea was to have him brought up with a mesh of discipline and respect, combined with knowing how to best deal with likely life encounters.

  218. @Adam
    I live in a region with a climate comparable to Siberia and third worlders from all corners of the earth are clamoring to come here. Other than being economically depressed, there's no reason Siberia or anywhere in Russia could never be a target for enrichment.

    My region is slightly warmer than Siberia, but they are flooding in here too. The somalians just stay inside all winter.

    You would think the city is 95% white when you go out during the winter, or do any kind of outdoor activity.

  219. @melanf

    Of course there were people out in Siberia before the Soviet Union existed, but really the reason for people to be in Siberia is for resource extraction, there does not need to be cities.
     
    It's nonsense.

    The median monthly salary in Russia (blue - more than 2000 dollars in purchasing power parity, green-more than a 1000 dollars). Where do people make better money?
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/Median_wage_april_2017.png

    Changes in Russia's population
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DUNnyEsW0AAjbUc.jpg

    Well your see


    expansion of land hungry Russian peasants into lands to the south, often against the will of the Russian authorities, very differently to the Russian expansion into Siberia, which was more of a military expedition.
     
    Siberia was conquered by pirates during private military expeditions.
    https://collectionerus.ru/media/items-large/c/cu/cuhstmsqmfvpyf5u.jpg
    Later there was a resettlement to Siberia of peasants (including Germans, Poles, Latvians, etc.). The southern lands of Russia were conquered by the state during the bloody wars, in the South "state" colonization played a much greater role than in Siberia.

    Russian expansion in Siberia follows shortly after the conquest of Kazan by the first Tsar, Ivan IV. It was a state policy implemented by all subsequent Tsars.

    • Replies: @melanf

    Russian expansion in Siberia follows shortly after the conquest of Kazan by the first Tsar, Ivan IV. It was a state policy implemented by all subsequent Tsars.
     
    As you can see the conquest of Siberia took place through the land located far North of Kazan

    https://www.mapmania.org/static/map/original/russian_expansion_into_siberia_16th_and_17th_century_59916.jpg

    Part of the conquests took place in the course of completely private expeditions (eg campaign of Ermak) , other conquests were carried out with the support of the state, but by private forces. A close analogue of the conquerors of Siberia, a European Corsair in the Royal service-such as Francis Drake.

  220. @German_reader
    I think the point was rather that accepting a self-definition of the sort "We're all mongrels, everybody can belong with the right values" could easily lead to being manipulated into acceptance of the "modern", destructive kind of "diversity".
    Full-scale ethnonationalism (let alone the racial obsessions of neutral) would obviously be dangerous for Russia. But at some point boundaries need to be drawn.

    @Big red scary, Thorfinnsson, AP: thanks for your informative replies about home schooling!

    But at some point boundaries need to be drawn.

    The boundaries are natural: cultural compatibility. Whoever isn’t compatible should go back to whateverthefuckinstan s/he came from. These should have been the boundaries in Europe, too, but European elites decided to kill Europe as we know it.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    Are Chechens culturally compatible with mainstream Russian society though?
    I get what you're trying to say, and there's certainly a lot of truth in it, but once you've found out a group isn't "culturally compatible" and causing problems, it's often not that easily possible anymore to tell them to leave.
  221. @AnonFromTN
    Yes. The key thing is that this diversity is natural, it was tested by centuries of coexistence, in contrast to globalists’ lie of “multi-culti” that is forced, contrived, and involves bringing millions of culturally incompatible people into established social structures.

    Not only Russians learned to live peacefully next to the people of different cultures and races, but these people also learned to live in peace with Russians. It helps that Russia (the Empire, the USSR, and the RF today) did not bring “democracy” on the heads of others in 500 kg TNT installments.

    Orthodoxy played a central role in the Russian ‘Weltanschauung’. ‘Love thy neighbor’ was taken seriously and that induced a basic respect for human dignity.
    A little correction. Recent research showed that Pushkin’s great-grandfather, Abram Petrovic Gannibal, was not Ethiopian, but from Central Africa (Cameroon). Prisoner to Constantinople, he was ransomed by Sava Vladislavich-Raguzinsky, the Ambassador of Peter the Great to Constantinople, brought to Russia, baptized by the Tsar who took him into his household. He married into Russian nobility (ironically into a branch of Scandinavian and German origin). His son’s Osip daughter was to marry Sergei Lvovich Pushkin and have Alexander.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Whatever Pushkin’s origins, they were certainly not Russian. That does not prevent him from being the greatest Russian poet of all times.

    I don’t think Orthodoxy played a decisive role. Like all religions, Orthodoxy is 10% sincere goodness and 90% hypocrisy. I think it’s just the fact that Russians lived side-by-side with various non-Russians for centuries, so both sides learned to behave themselves simply to survive (tribally-minded jerks on both sides were killed and left no progeny). The main problem with Europe is that Europeans never lived next to phenotypically and culturally different neighbors. This fed both prevailing Nazi-like attitude (aborigines are inhuman savages) and rank ineptitude in dealing with different people when the need arises.
  222. @AnonFromTN
    Quite possible. Fraud is as old as humanity, maybe even older. Every society has its fraudsters, but they are more successful in some social structures than in others.

    More than possible. It explains how the 2 million evacuated beyond the Urals at the beginning of the War have been counted to make the sacred six.

  223. @AnonFromTN

    But at some point boundaries need to be drawn.
     
    The boundaries are natural: cultural compatibility. Whoever isn’t compatible should go back to whateverthefuckinstan s/he came from. These should have been the boundaries in Europe, too, but European elites decided to kill Europe as we know it.

    Are Chechens culturally compatible with mainstream Russian society though?
    I get what you’re trying to say, and there’s certainly a lot of truth in it, but once you’ve found out a group isn’t “culturally compatible” and causing problems, it’s often not that easily possible anymore to tell them to leave.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    In fact, Chechens (most of whom live in RF outside of Chechnya) in many regions learn to be compatible the hard way: there were several instances of mass brawls of locals with Chechens who stepped out of boundaries. In one instance a Chechen was killed, and his family actually apologized to the locals, acknowledging that he did not behave properly. If something like 2015/16 Cologne mass assault on local women by migrants happened in Russia, first local men would have given those migrants a serious beating, and then the police would arrive and beat them some more. In the US it would be exactly the same, just replace beating with shooting. Both Russians and Americans were shocked by the impotence of Germans, civilians and the police. There was even a joke in Russia that Putin is the last real German man.
    , @Dmitry
    Obviously this is much more a cultural problem with these people.

    Currently scary problem with Chechens for the future, is this promotion of Islam (whether non-political or not) by Kadyrov. So they could become increasingly more in the future a nationality of Talhas, rather than of Anatoly Karlins.

    Islamicizing itself is not exactly sustainable though - eventually they or their descendants will always have to (as all people will eventually) return to the natural process of secularizing and civilizing themselves, becoming normal human beings.

  224. @German_reader
    Are Chechens culturally compatible with mainstream Russian society though?
    I get what you're trying to say, and there's certainly a lot of truth in it, but once you've found out a group isn't "culturally compatible" and causing problems, it's often not that easily possible anymore to tell them to leave.

    In fact, Chechens (most of whom live in RF outside of Chechnya) in many regions learn to be compatible the hard way: there were several instances of mass brawls of locals with Chechens who stepped out of boundaries. In one instance a Chechen was killed, and his family actually apologized to the locals, acknowledging that he did not behave properly. If something like 2015/16 Cologne mass assault on local women by migrants happened in Russia, first local men would have given those migrants a serious beating, and then the police would arrive and beat them some more. In the US it would be exactly the same, just replace beating with shooting. Both Russians and Americans were shocked by the impotence of Germans, civilians and the police. There was even a joke in Russia that Putin is the last real German man.

    • Replies: @German_reader

    In the US it would be exactly the same, just replace beating with shooting.
     
    My understanding is that white Americans basically let themselves be ethnically cleansed out of many cities by black criminals, so I doubt that.
    I don't know about Russia. But the problem in Germany (and other European countries) is not just the wimpiness of the native men (though that certainly exists), but that the state is de facto taking the side of the invaders.
  225. @Seraphim
    Orthodoxy played a central role in the Russian 'Weltanschauung'. 'Love thy neighbor' was taken seriously and that induced a basic respect for human dignity.
    A little correction. Recent research showed that Pushkin's great-grandfather, Abram Petrovic Gannibal, was not Ethiopian, but from Central Africa (Cameroon). Prisoner to Constantinople, he was ransomed by Sava Vladislavich-Raguzinsky, the Ambassador of Peter the Great to Constantinople, brought to Russia, baptized by the Tsar who took him into his household. He married into Russian nobility (ironically into a branch of Scandinavian and German origin). His son's Osip daughter was to marry Sergei Lvovich Pushkin and have Alexander.

    Whatever Pushkin’s origins, they were certainly not Russian. That does not prevent him from being the greatest Russian poet of all times.

    I don’t think Orthodoxy played a decisive role. Like all religions, Orthodoxy is 10% sincere goodness and 90% hypocrisy. I think it’s just the fact that Russians lived side-by-side with various non-Russians for centuries, so both sides learned to behave themselves simply to survive (tribally-minded jerks on both sides were killed and left no progeny). The main problem with Europe is that Europeans never lived next to phenotypically and culturally different neighbors. This fed both prevailing Nazi-like attitude (aborigines are inhuman savages) and rank ineptitude in dealing with different people when the need arises.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    I think it’s just the fact that Russians lived side-by-side with various non-Russians for centuries, so both sides learned to behave themselves simply to survive (tribally-minded jerks on both sides were killed and left no progeny).
     
    This is a very idealistic view.

    The main problem with Europe is that Europeans never lived next to phenotypically and culturally different neighbors. This fed both prevailing Nazi-like attitude (aborigines are inhuman savages) and rank ineptitude in dealing with different people when the need arises.
     
    The Spanish, Portuguese and French acted no 'worse' than Russians when they encountered the Amerindian primitives.

    Amusingly, Lusotropicalism is like a mirror of your ideas about Russia:

    It was theorized that because of Portugal's warmer climate, and having been inhabited by Celts, Romans, Visigoths, Moors and several other peoples in pre-modern times, the Portuguese were more humane, friendly, and adaptable to other climates and cultures.

    In addition, by the early 20th century, Portugal was by far the European colonial power with the oldest territorial presence overseas; in some cases its territories had been continuously settled and ruled by the Portuguese throughout five centuries. Lusotropicalism celebrated both actual and mythological elements of racial democracy and civilizing mission in the Portuguese Empire, encompassing a pro-miscegenation attitude toward the colonies/overseas territories. The ideology is best exemplified in the work of Freyre.[2]
     
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusotropicalism
    , @Seraphim
    It was not Dostoevsky's opinion. Neither Solzhenitsyn's. Or, perhaps worse, Putin's: "It Is Impossible to Imagine Russia Without Christianity". They believed in a Christian mission of Russia. BTW, it was Pushkin's opinion too: “The great spiritual and political revolution of our planet is Christianity. Within this sacred element the world disappeared and was renewed”, “We are obliged to the monks for our history, and consequently our enlightenment”, “The Greek confession, separate from all others, gives us a special national character”.
    But they were not 'Darwinians', and 'anti-semitic' on top of that. No wonder that the same people hate them all, the people who made every effort to uproot Orthodoxy from Russian land, unsuccessfully. "I feel nothing but almost physical hatred for the man”, “[I would like] tear Dostoevsky to pieces” for “his idea of Russians as special, holy people, his cult of suffering and the false choices he presents.” -Anatoly Chubais.
    , @melanf

    Whatever Pushkin’s origins, they were certainly not Russian. That does not prevent him from being the greatest Russian poet of all times.
     
    Pushkin's great-grandfather on the maternal side was definitely not Russian. The Pushkins family was an old Russian noble family, known since the middle ages.
  226. @AnonFromTN
    In fact, Chechens (most of whom live in RF outside of Chechnya) in many regions learn to be compatible the hard way: there were several instances of mass brawls of locals with Chechens who stepped out of boundaries. In one instance a Chechen was killed, and his family actually apologized to the locals, acknowledging that he did not behave properly. If something like 2015/16 Cologne mass assault on local women by migrants happened in Russia, first local men would have given those migrants a serious beating, and then the police would arrive and beat them some more. In the US it would be exactly the same, just replace beating with shooting. Both Russians and Americans were shocked by the impotence of Germans, civilians and the police. There was even a joke in Russia that Putin is the last real German man.

    In the US it would be exactly the same, just replace beating with shooting.

    My understanding is that white Americans basically let themselves be ethnically cleansed out of many cities by black criminals, so I doubt that.
    I don’t know about Russia. But the problem in Germany (and other European countries) is not just the wimpiness of the native men (though that certainly exists), but that the state is de facto taking the side of the invaders.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Yes, when blacks move en masse into an area, the whites move out. But that hurts blacks more than whites, especially long-term: just look at Detroit after black riots that happened more than 60 years ago. There were rare instances when blacks were pushed out by whites (e.g., parts of North Philadelphia), but those whites were Russians and Poles, who mostly don’t buy the PC BS.

    I understand that the position of the governments in Europe actually makes problems created by migrants much worse. But, if memory serves, Europeans like to boast about their vaunted democracy (which, according to them, is lacking in Russia and China). This means that you guys elected those governments and presumably can elect better ones. What possessed Germans to vote for Merkel’s party and Social-Democratic cucks instead of a perfectly sane AfD? What possessed French to elect Rothschild banker instead of Le Pen? I can continue in this vein, but what’s the point? Or is that democracy talk all BS and no substance?
    , @songbird
    What happened in America wasn't purely organic either, but involved the state assuming powers not granted to it, often first through the courts. (It was quite similar to what happened with gays) Though one could make the argument that everything was a delayed consequence of the Civil War, which involved physical armies. Not to mention JFK actually using federal troops to desegregate the University of Alabama.

    What happened in Europe can only be explained by European politicians being ignorant about what really happened in America, which is explained by it being a forbidden topic.
    , @AP

    My understanding is that white Americans basically let themselves be ethnically cleansed out of many cities by black criminals, so I doubt that.
     
    It's not so simple - there was a carrot and a stick. They were not driven out as refugees but moved to places with a lot more land, garages, etc. at a time when this was widely seen as an ideal, leaving the older no longer as desirable places for the newcomers. If you talk to the older generations who left the city, it wasn't just fear but a sense of leaving the dirty city and cramped space behind and getting a much larger house with a swimming pool and two car garage.

    This sucked only for the small number who did not want to move and who saw their old neighborhoods collapse around them.

    Note that urban areas in which the locals did not want to leave en masse such as certain Italian areas, or Ukrainian Village in Chicago, remained as they were. And undesirables were kept out of the desired suburbs. Now that cities are becoming fashionable, you see them getting cleansed.

    Second, in many cases the ones moving out were replaced not by minorities but by poor whites. In Detroit the first wave was white trash from the South who replaced the original white inhabitants.
  227. @German_reader
    Are Chechens culturally compatible with mainstream Russian society though?
    I get what you're trying to say, and there's certainly a lot of truth in it, but once you've found out a group isn't "culturally compatible" and causing problems, it's often not that easily possible anymore to tell them to leave.

    Obviously this is much more a cultural problem with these people.

    Currently scary problem with Chechens for the future, is this promotion of Islam (whether non-political or not) by Kadyrov. So they could become increasingly more in the future a nationality of Talhas, rather than of Anatoly Karlins.

    Islamicizing itself is not exactly sustainable though – eventually they or their descendants will always have to (as all people will eventually) return to the natural process of secularizing and civilizing themselves, becoming normal human beings.

    • Replies: @German_reader

    Islamicizing itself is not exactly sustainable though
     
    It's been sustainable for 1400 years, which is a lot longer than secularism (which is not "normal" at all).
    You shouldn't always think that your own mindset (being an individual, having nice things and traveling around the world as ultimate life goals) is what everybody else would want naturally. Most people crave community and some narrative providing meaning and transcendence to their lives, and Islam is good at that.
    , @Hyperborean

    Islamicizing itself is not exactly sustainable though – eventually they or their descendants will always have to (as all people will eventually) return to the natural process of secularizing and civilizing themselves, becoming normal human beings.
     
    Fanatic savagery is the natural state of humans and it is not evident that all nationalities will (or can) eventually develop a genuine consciousness.
  228. @German_reader

    In the US it would be exactly the same, just replace beating with shooting.
     
    My understanding is that white Americans basically let themselves be ethnically cleansed out of many cities by black criminals, so I doubt that.
    I don't know about Russia. But the problem in Germany (and other European countries) is not just the wimpiness of the native men (though that certainly exists), but that the state is de facto taking the side of the invaders.

    Yes, when blacks move en masse into an area, the whites move out. But that hurts blacks more than whites, especially long-term: just look at Detroit after black riots that happened more than 60 years ago. There were rare instances when blacks were pushed out by whites (e.g., parts of North Philadelphia), but those whites were Russians and Poles, who mostly don’t buy the PC BS.

    I understand that the position of the governments in Europe actually makes problems created by migrants much worse. But, if memory serves, Europeans like to boast about their vaunted democracy (which, according to them, is lacking in Russia and China). This means that you guys elected those governments and presumably can elect better ones. What possessed Germans to vote for Merkel’s party and Social-Democratic cucks instead of a perfectly sane AfD? What possessed French to elect Rothschild banker instead of Le Pen? I can continue in this vein, but what’s the point? Or is that democracy talk all BS and no substance?

    • Replies: @Beckow

    ...What possessed Germans to vote for Merkel’s party and Social-Democratic cucks instead of a perfectly sane AfD?
     
    The really crazy one voted for the Greens who seem to be in an uber-globalist orbit of their own. They gained votes.

    I have observed that many in the West avoid being disagreeable - and not just women. A combination of politeness, conformism and fear. That makes it easy to manipulate them by endlessly portraying any criticism as racist or xenophobic and associate it with 'Hitler'. Germans are especially vulnerable and not just because of WWII. But the French voting for Macron cannot be explained in any sane universe - it was the ultimate wtf moment of latter-day globalism.

    I don't know how this is going to play out over the next few decades, I suspect it will get quite ugly. But I know that in 10-20 years it will be hard to find anyone admitting that they were part of the 'welcome culture', or that they voted for Macron, cognitive dissonance to the nth degree.
    , @Hyperborean

    But, if memory serves, Europeans like to boast about their vaunted democracy (which, according to them, is lacking in Russia and China). This means that you guys elected those governments and presumably can elect better ones. What possessed Germans to vote for Merkel’s party and Social-Democratic cucks instead of a perfectly sane AfD? What possessed French to elect Rothschild banker instead of Le Pen? I can continue in this vein, but what’s the point? Or is that democracy talk all BS and no substance?
     
    Parliamentarism is a fraud, which people are slowly realising.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/12/08/yes-millennials-really-are-surprisingly-approving-of-dictators/

    While there are many traitors and weaklings in Europe, if one believed in 'democracy' one might just as well ask why Russians put up with Yeltsin for long during the 1990s.

  229. @Dmitry
    Obviously this is much more a cultural problem with these people.

    Currently scary problem with Chechens for the future, is this promotion of Islam (whether non-political or not) by Kadyrov. So they could become increasingly more in the future a nationality of Talhas, rather than of Anatoly Karlins.

    Islamicizing itself is not exactly sustainable though - eventually they or their descendants will always have to (as all people will eventually) return to the natural process of secularizing and civilizing themselves, becoming normal human beings.

    Islamicizing itself is not exactly sustainable though

    It’s been sustainable for 1400 years, which is a lot longer than secularism (which is not “normal” at all).
    You shouldn’t always think that your own mindset (being an individual, having nice things and traveling around the world as ultimate life goals) is what everybody else would want naturally. Most people crave community and some narrative providing meaning and transcendence to their lives, and Islam is good at that.

  230. @AnonFromTN
    Whatever Pushkin’s origins, they were certainly not Russian. That does not prevent him from being the greatest Russian poet of all times.

    I don’t think Orthodoxy played a decisive role. Like all religions, Orthodoxy is 10% sincere goodness and 90% hypocrisy. I think it’s just the fact that Russians lived side-by-side with various non-Russians for centuries, so both sides learned to behave themselves simply to survive (tribally-minded jerks on both sides were killed and left no progeny). The main problem with Europe is that Europeans never lived next to phenotypically and culturally different neighbors. This fed both prevailing Nazi-like attitude (aborigines are inhuman savages) and rank ineptitude in dealing with different people when the need arises.

    I think it’s just the fact that Russians lived side-by-side with various non-Russians for centuries, so both sides learned to behave themselves simply to survive (tribally-minded jerks on both sides were killed and left no progeny).

    This is a very idealistic view.

    The main problem with Europe is that Europeans never lived next to phenotypically and culturally different neighbors. This fed both prevailing Nazi-like attitude (aborigines are inhuman savages) and rank ineptitude in dealing with different people when the need arises.

    The Spanish, Portuguese and French acted no ‘worse’ than Russians when they encountered the Amerindian primitives.

    Amusingly, Lusotropicalism is like a mirror of your ideas about Russia:

    It was theorized that because of Portugal’s warmer climate, and having been inhabited by Celts, Romans, Visigoths, Moors and several other peoples in pre-modern times, the Portuguese were more humane, friendly, and adaptable to other climates and cultures.

    In addition, by the early 20th century, Portugal was by far the European colonial power with the oldest territorial presence overseas; in some cases its territories had been continuously settled and ruled by the Portuguese throughout five centuries. Lusotropicalism celebrated both actual and mythological elements of racial democracy and civilizing mission in the Portuguese Empire, encompassing a pro-miscegenation attitude toward the colonies/overseas territories. The ideology is best exemplified in the work of Freyre.[2]

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusotropicalism

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN

    This is a very idealistic view.
     
    This is not an idealistic view. In fact, it’s the exact opposite, pure Darwinism: the survival of the fittest.
  231. @AnonFromTN

    As far as I know the genetic differences within the Russian ethnic group are more significant than in other indigenous ethnic groups in Europe.
     
    That’s only natural. Huge groups of Ugro-Finnish peoples and Tatars (this is genetically very heterogeneous category of Turkish-speaking people; e.g., people called Tatars in the Volga region and in the Urals look strikingly different) were assimilated in the course of Russian history. Virtually any Russian curious enough to look into it can find some Tatar or Mordvin, Chuvash, etc. ancestors. Nuts with primeval tribalist mentality won’t acknowledge that, but they are mongrels, too. In fact, after Georgia and Ukraine demonstrated that rabid nationalism can ruin any country, small and large, the popularity of nationalists in Russia dropped precipitously.

    Tatars (this is genetically very heterogeneous category

    Yes some look all the way like Kazakhs

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Historically all tribes that joined Mongols in their war against Russian principalities in the 13th century were called Tatars. They are racially, ethnically, and phenotypically very different. Some were Asians (like the pretty girl in your pic), some Volga area Tatars in Kazan and Astrakhan are Caucasians and look like Greeks with larger and more hooked noses, some, particularly Urals Tatars, look like a mix of Asians with Eastern Slavs. Crimean Tatars are actually Turks. They are united by the language: all speak Turkish-like languages and most can understand Turkish (at least that’s what one of my Tatar friends told me).
    , @melanf

    Yes some look all the way like Kazakhs
     
    The Volga Tatars look more southern than "Asian". Here are two Olympic Champions - Rita Mamun (half-Indian ) and Alina Zagitova (Tatar). They look like sisters.
    https://rusbiathlon.ru/foto/230/115126.jpg

    But also exist atypical "Nordic" татары
    https://i080.radikal.ru/1007/de/fae079e496a0.jpg

    https://s018.radikal.ru/i514/1202/90/737123ca193f.jpg

  232. @AnonFromTN
    Yes, when blacks move en masse into an area, the whites move out. But that hurts blacks more than whites, especially long-term: just look at Detroit after black riots that happened more than 60 years ago. There were rare instances when blacks were pushed out by whites (e.g., parts of North Philadelphia), but those whites were Russians and Poles, who mostly don’t buy the PC BS.

    I understand that the position of the governments in Europe actually makes problems created by migrants much worse. But, if memory serves, Europeans like to boast about their vaunted democracy (which, according to them, is lacking in Russia and China). This means that you guys elected those governments and presumably can elect better ones. What possessed Germans to vote for Merkel’s party and Social-Democratic cucks instead of a perfectly sane AfD? What possessed French to elect Rothschild banker instead of Le Pen? I can continue in this vein, but what’s the point? Or is that democracy talk all BS and no substance?

    …What possessed Germans to vote for Merkel’s party and Social-Democratic cucks instead of a perfectly sane AfD?

    The really crazy one voted for the Greens who seem to be in an uber-globalist orbit of their own. They gained votes.

    I have observed that many in the West avoid being disagreeable – and not just women. A combination of politeness, conformism and fear. That makes it easy to manipulate them by endlessly portraying any criticism as racist or xenophobic and associate it with ‘Hitler’. Germans are especially vulnerable and not just because of WWII. But the French voting for Macron cannot be explained in any sane universe – it was the ultimate wtf moment of latter-day globalism.

    I don’t know how this is going to play out over the next few decades, I suspect it will get quite ugly. But I know that in 10-20 years it will be hard to find anyone admitting that they were part of the ‘welcome culture‘, or that they voted for Macron, cognitive dissonance to the nth degree.

  233. @AnonFromTN
    Yes, when blacks move en masse into an area, the whites move out. But that hurts blacks more than whites, especially long-term: just look at Detroit after black riots that happened more than 60 years ago. There were rare instances when blacks were pushed out by whites (e.g., parts of North Philadelphia), but those whites were Russians and Poles, who mostly don’t buy the PC BS.

    I understand that the position of the governments in Europe actually makes problems created by migrants much worse. But, if memory serves, Europeans like to boast about their vaunted democracy (which, according to them, is lacking in Russia and China). This means that you guys elected those governments and presumably can elect better ones. What possessed Germans to vote for Merkel’s party and Social-Democratic cucks instead of a perfectly sane AfD? What possessed French to elect Rothschild banker instead of Le Pen? I can continue in this vein, but what’s the point? Or is that democracy talk all BS and no substance?

    But, if memory serves, Europeans like to boast about their vaunted democracy (which, according to them, is lacking in Russia and China). This means that you guys elected those governments and presumably can elect better ones. What possessed Germans to vote for Merkel’s party and Social-Democratic cucks instead of a perfectly sane AfD? What possessed French to elect Rothschild banker instead of Le Pen? I can continue in this vein, but what’s the point? Or is that democracy talk all BS and no substance?

    Parliamentarism is a fraud, which people are slowly realising.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/12/08/yes-millennials-really-are-surprisingly-approving-of-dictators/

    While there are many traitors and weaklings in Europe, if one believed in ‘democracy’ one might just as well ask why Russians put up with Yeltsin for long during the 1990s.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    A lot of Russians were duped by sweet Western talk (that turned out to be 100% deception). But the first revolt against traitorous Yeltsin occurred as early as 1993 in Moscow. The regime put it down by mass murder and tanks shooting at the parliament building. The “democracy-loving” West applauded the drunkard and his heinous crimes. Talk of hypocrisy…
  234. @German_reader

    In the US it would be exactly the same, just replace beating with shooting.
     
    My understanding is that white Americans basically let themselves be ethnically cleansed out of many cities by black criminals, so I doubt that.
    I don't know about Russia. But the problem in Germany (and other European countries) is not just the wimpiness of the native men (though that certainly exists), but that the state is de facto taking the side of the invaders.

    What happened in America wasn’t purely organic either, but involved the state assuming powers not granted to it, often first through the courts. (It was quite similar to what happened with gays) Though one could make the argument that everything was a delayed consequence of the Civil War, which involved physical armies. Not to mention JFK actually using federal troops to desegregate the University of Alabama.

    What happened in Europe can only be explained by European politicians being ignorant about what really happened in America, which is explained by it being a forbidden topic.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    Not to mention JFK actually using federal troops to desegregate the University of Alabama.
     
    Southron resistance to desegregation is actually rather interesting, I have read about it in mainstream sources, but American race realist writing, in my (admittedly limited) impression, do not talk about it very much.

    What happened in Europe can only be explained by European politicians being ignorant about what really happened in America, which is explained by it being a forbidden topic.
     
    The worldview and education of European bien-pensants can be summed by reading the condescending New York Times and Washington Post, plus some stereotypical views.

    (I'll admit also I do this sometimes. Once we met an American pair on vacation and we were so sure they were from Texas, apparently they were from Illinois. Their Texas imitation sounded even more extreme to my ears.)

  235. @Dmitry

    Tatars (this is genetically very heterogeneous category

     

    Yes some look all the way like Kazakhs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgfiGtWdVuo

    Historically all tribes that joined Mongols in their war against Russian principalities in the 13th century were called Tatars. They are racially, ethnically, and phenotypically very different. Some were Asians (like the pretty girl in your pic), some Volga area Tatars in Kazan and Astrakhan are Caucasians and look like Greeks with larger and more hooked noses, some, particularly Urals Tatars, look like a mix of Asians with Eastern Slavs. Crimean Tatars are actually Turks. They are united by the language: all speak Turkish-like languages and most can understand Turkish (at least that’s what one of my Tatar friends told me).

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
    I thought it was because they ate a lot of fish sticks.
  236. @Hyperborean

    I think it’s just the fact that Russians lived side-by-side with various non-Russians for centuries, so both sides learned to behave themselves simply to survive (tribally-minded jerks on both sides were killed and left no progeny).
     
    This is a very idealistic view.

    The main problem with Europe is that Europeans never lived next to phenotypically and culturally different neighbors. This fed both prevailing Nazi-like attitude (aborigines are inhuman savages) and rank ineptitude in dealing with different people when the need arises.
     
    The Spanish, Portuguese and French acted no 'worse' than Russians when they encountered the Amerindian primitives.

    Amusingly, Lusotropicalism is like a mirror of your ideas about Russia:

    It was theorized that because of Portugal's warmer climate, and having been inhabited by Celts, Romans, Visigoths, Moors and several other peoples in pre-modern times, the Portuguese were more humane, friendly, and adaptable to other climates and cultures.

    In addition, by the early 20th century, Portugal was by far the European colonial power with the oldest territorial presence overseas; in some cases its territories had been continuously settled and ruled by the Portuguese throughout five centuries. Lusotropicalism celebrated both actual and mythological elements of racial democracy and civilizing mission in the Portuguese Empire, encompassing a pro-miscegenation attitude toward the colonies/overseas territories. The ideology is best exemplified in the work of Freyre.[2]
     
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusotropicalism

    This is a very idealistic view.

    This is not an idealistic view. In fact, it’s the exact opposite, pure Darwinism: the survival of the fittest.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    This is not an idealistic view. In fact, it’s the exact opposite, pure Darwinism: the survival of the fittest.
     
    Russian expansion in North Asia was quite frequently violent (and of course the North Asians were quite violent as well).

    And even as late as the collapse of the Soviet Union there were separatist attempts from Tatarstan (1992) and ethnic cleansing of Russians from Tuva.
  237. @Hyperborean

    But, if memory serves, Europeans like to boast about their vaunted democracy (which, according to them, is lacking in Russia and China). This means that you guys elected those governments and presumably can elect better ones. What possessed Germans to vote for Merkel’s party and Social-Democratic cucks instead of a perfectly sane AfD? What possessed French to elect Rothschild banker instead of Le Pen? I can continue in this vein, but what’s the point? Or is that democracy talk all BS and no substance?
     
    Parliamentarism is a fraud, which people are slowly realising.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/12/08/yes-millennials-really-are-surprisingly-approving-of-dictators/

    While there are many traitors and weaklings in Europe, if one believed in 'democracy' one might just as well ask why Russians put up with Yeltsin for long during the 1990s.

    A lot of Russians were duped by sweet Western talk (that turned out to be 100% deception). But the first revolt against traitorous Yeltsin occurred as early as 1993 in Moscow. The regime put it down by mass murder and tanks shooting at the parliament building. The “democracy-loving” West applauded the drunkard and his heinous crimes. Talk of hypocrisy…

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    But the first revolt against traitorous Yeltsin occurred as early as 1993 in Moscow. The regime put it down by mass murder and tanks shooting at the parliament building. The “democracy-loving” West applauded the drunkard and his heinous crimes. Talk of hypocrisy…
     

    But even twenty years later, the country is still torn between extreme positive and extreme negative assessments of the events of 1993. According to VTSIOM, a polling institution, 51 percent of Russians supported the use of military force to regain control over Moscow, whereas only 30 percent were against it. Today [2013], however, Russians have a different opinion on the issue as only 17 percent of citizens approve of the president’s actions and as many as 69 percent – have a negative opinion.
     
    https://russia-direct.org/analysis/failed-russian-coup-20-years-later

    And in 2018:

    New sociological research shows that a narrow majority of Russians today (53 percent) say they think nobody was right in the August 1991 coup d'état attempt by members of the Soviet government to take control of the country from Soviet President and General Secretary Mikhail Gorbachev. According to a new poll by the Levada Center, 13 percent of respondents sided with the State Committee on the State of Emergency (GKChP), 10 percent supported Boris Yeltsin and company, and 25 percent found the question too difficult to answer.

    The defeat of the coup has a similarly troubled legacy: just 6 percent of respondents said it was a victory for democratic revolution over the Communist Party. Thirty-eight percent said it was a tragedy with disastrous consequences for the country and the Soviet people, while 36 percent said the event was simply a struggle for power by the USSR’s ruling class.
     
    Beckow is probably right when he says that few decades from now on very few Europeans will publicly admit having supported the traitors currently in power.

    Of course, EU democracy is a fraud, as shown when the 'far-right' Austrian Freedom Party entered a coalition government in 2000 after the 1999 parliamentary elections, the European Union swiftly enacted sanctions to ensure that 'democracy' in Austria was not threatened.
  238. @AnonFromTN

    This is a very idealistic view.
     
    This is not an idealistic view. In fact, it’s the exact opposite, pure Darwinism: the survival of the fittest.

    This is not an idealistic view. In fact, it’s the exact opposite, pure Darwinism: the survival of the fittest.

    Russian expansion in North Asia was quite frequently violent (and of course the North Asians were quite violent as well).

    And even as late as the collapse of the Soviet Union there were separatist attempts from Tatarstan (1992) and ethnic cleansing of Russians from Tuva.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    There were attempts by tribal-minded people (non-Russians) to establish tribal autonomy/independence. The attempt in Tatarstan fizzled out because of lack of popular support. Besides, more Tatars in Russia live outside of Tatarstan than inside it.

    Tuva is a different proposition. It was an independent country from 1921 to 1944 and should have remained so, if you ask me. It is the least developed federal territory in Russia, in a word – a shithole. However, Russian defense minister Shoigu is half-Tuvan, so Tuva gave the world at least something useful. He is regarded in Tuva as a national hero.
  239. @AnonFromTN
    Historically all tribes that joined Mongols in their war against Russian principalities in the 13th century were called Tatars. They are racially, ethnically, and phenotypically very different. Some were Asians (like the pretty girl in your pic), some Volga area Tatars in Kazan and Astrakhan are Caucasians and look like Greeks with larger and more hooked noses, some, particularly Urals Tatars, look like a mix of Asians with Eastern Slavs. Crimean Tatars are actually Turks. They are united by the language: all speak Turkish-like languages and most can understand Turkish (at least that’s what one of my Tatar friends told me).

    I thought it was because they ate a lot of fish sticks.

  240. @AnonFromTN
    A lot of Russians were duped by sweet Western talk (that turned out to be 100% deception). But the first revolt against traitorous Yeltsin occurred as early as 1993 in Moscow. The regime put it down by mass murder and tanks shooting at the parliament building. The “democracy-loving” West applauded the drunkard and his heinous crimes. Talk of hypocrisy…

    But the first revolt against traitorous Yeltsin occurred as early as 1993 in Moscow. The regime put it down by mass murder and tanks shooting at the parliament building. The “democracy-loving” West applauded the drunkard and his heinous crimes. Talk of hypocrisy…

    But even twenty years later, the country is still torn between extreme positive and extreme negative assessments of the events of 1993. According to VTSIOM, a polling institution, 51 percent of Russians supported the use of military force to regain control over Moscow, whereas only 30 percent were against it. Today [2013], however, Russians have a different opinion on the issue as only 17 percent of citizens approve of the president’s actions and as many as 69 percent – have a negative opinion.

    https://russia-direct.org/analysis/failed-russian-coup-20-years-later

    And in 2018:

    New sociological research shows that a narrow majority of Russians today (53 percent) say they think nobody was right in the August 1991 coup d’état attempt by members of the Soviet government to take control of the country from Soviet President and General Secretary Mikhail Gorbachev. According to a new poll by the Levada Center, 13 percent of respondents sided with the State Committee on the State of Emergency (GKChP), 10 percent supported Boris Yeltsin and company, and 25 percent found the question too difficult to answer.

    The defeat of the coup has a similarly troubled legacy: just 6 percent of respondents said it was a victory for democratic revolution over the Communist Party. Thirty-eight percent said it was a tragedy with disastrous consequences for the country and the Soviet people, while 36 percent said the event was simply a struggle for power by the USSR’s ruling class.

    Beckow is probably right when he says that few decades from now on very few Europeans will publicly admit having supported the traitors currently in power.

    Of course, EU democracy is a fraud, as shown when the ‘far-right’ Austrian Freedom Party entered a coalition government in 2000 after the 1999 parliamentary elections, the European Union swiftly enacted sanctions to ensure that ‘democracy’ in Austria was not threatened.

  241. @Hyperborean

    This is not an idealistic view. In fact, it’s the exact opposite, pure Darwinism: the survival of the fittest.
     
    Russian expansion in North Asia was quite frequently violent (and of course the North Asians were quite violent as well).

    And even as late as the collapse of the Soviet Union there were separatist attempts from Tatarstan (1992) and ethnic cleansing of Russians from Tuva.

    There were attempts by tribal-minded people (non-Russians) to establish tribal autonomy/independence. The attempt in Tatarstan fizzled out because of lack of popular support. Besides, more Tatars in Russia live outside of Tatarstan than inside it.

    Tuva is a different proposition. It was an independent country from 1921 to 1944 and should have remained so, if you ask me. It is the least developed federal territory in Russia, in a word – a shithole. However, Russian defense minister Shoigu is half-Tuvan, so Tuva gave the world at least something useful. He is regarded in Tuva as a national hero.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    The attempt in Tatarstan fizzled out because of lack of popular support.
     
    In 1989 census Tatars were 48.5% of Tatarstan's population. The 1992 referendum affirming that Tatarstan is a 'sovereign state' got 62% Yes with 82% turnout.

    And Tatarstan, surrounded by Russia on all sides, did get a wide range of autonomy under an agreement which only expired a year and a half ago.*


    Tatarstan officials demanded a separate agreement that would preserve their regional sovereignty. Two years later, it finalized a deal with Moscow that gave the ethnically diverse republic its own laws, tax rules and citizenship privileges. Tatarstan kept control over its resources and budget, and could even participate in international affairs.
     
    https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/tatarstan-special-status-expires-58483

    Although a lot of separatist attempts in Russia outside the Caucasus are probably more unrealistic nowadays with a stronger central power and an increase in ethnic intermarriage.

    *Part of this is Yeltsin's fault, telling the Tatars to 'take all the sovereignty they can swallow' and then begging them not to secede.

  242. @AnonFromTN
    There were attempts by tribal-minded people (non-Russians) to establish tribal autonomy/independence. The attempt in Tatarstan fizzled out because of lack of popular support. Besides, more Tatars in Russia live outside of Tatarstan than inside it.

    Tuva is a different proposition. It was an independent country from 1921 to 1944 and should have remained so, if you ask me. It is the least developed federal territory in Russia, in a word – a shithole. However, Russian defense minister Shoigu is half-Tuvan, so Tuva gave the world at least something useful. He is regarded in Tuva as a national hero.

    The attempt in Tatarstan fizzled out because of lack of popular support.

    In 1989 census Tatars were 48.5% of Tatarstan’s population. The 1992 referendum affirming that Tatarstan is a ‘sovereign state’ got 62% Yes with 82% turnout.

    And Tatarstan, surrounded by Russia on all sides, did get a wide range of autonomy under an agreement which only expired a year and a half ago.*

    Tatarstan officials demanded a separate agreement that would preserve their regional sovereignty. Two years later, it finalized a deal with Moscow that gave the ethnically diverse republic its own laws, tax rules and citizenship privileges. Tatarstan kept control over its resources and budget, and could even participate in international affairs.

    https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/tatarstan-special-status-expires-58483

    Although a lot of separatist attempts in Russia outside the Caucasus are probably more unrealistic nowadays with a stronger central power and an increase in ethnic intermarriage.

    *Part of this is Yeltsin’s fault, telling the Tatars to ‘take all the sovereignty they can swallow’ and then begging them not to secede.

  243. @German_reader

    In the US it would be exactly the same, just replace beating with shooting.
     
    My understanding is that white Americans basically let themselves be ethnically cleansed out of many cities by black criminals, so I doubt that.
    I don't know about Russia. But the problem in Germany (and other European countries) is not just the wimpiness of the native men (though that certainly exists), but that the state is de facto taking the side of the invaders.

    My understanding is that white Americans basically let themselves be ethnically cleansed out of many cities by black criminals, so I doubt that.

    It’s not so simple – there was a carrot and a stick. They were not driven out as refugees but moved to places with a lot more land, garages, etc. at a time when this was widely seen as an ideal, leaving the older no longer as desirable places for the newcomers. If you talk to the older generations who left the city, it wasn’t just fear but a sense of leaving the dirty city and cramped space behind and getting a much larger house with a swimming pool and two car garage.

    This sucked only for the small number who did not want to move and who saw their old neighborhoods collapse around them.

    Note that urban areas in which the locals did not want to leave en masse such as certain Italian areas, or Ukrainian Village in Chicago, remained as they were. And undesirables were kept out of the desired suburbs. Now that cities are becoming fashionable, you see them getting cleansed.

    Second, in many cases the ones moving out were replaced not by minorities but by poor whites. In Detroit the first wave was white trash from the South who replaced the original white inhabitants.

  244. @AnonFromTN
    Whatever Pushkin’s origins, they were certainly not Russian. That does not prevent him from being the greatest Russian poet of all times.

    I don’t think Orthodoxy played a decisive role. Like all religions, Orthodoxy is 10% sincere goodness and 90% hypocrisy. I think it’s just the fact that Russians lived side-by-side with various non-Russians for centuries, so both sides learned to behave themselves simply to survive (tribally-minded jerks on both sides were killed and left no progeny). The main problem with Europe is that Europeans never lived next to phenotypically and culturally different neighbors. This fed both prevailing Nazi-like attitude (aborigines are inhuman savages) and rank ineptitude in dealing with different people when the need arises.

    It was not Dostoevsky’s opinion. Neither Solzhenitsyn’s. Or, perhaps worse, Putin’s: “It Is Impossible to Imagine Russia Without Christianity”. They believed in a Christian mission of Russia. BTW, it was Pushkin’s opinion too: “The great spiritual and political revolution of our planet is Christianity. Within this sacred element the world disappeared and was renewed”, “We are obliged to the monks for our history, and consequently our enlightenment”, “The Greek confession, separate from all others, gives us a special national character”.
    But they were not ‘Darwinians’, and ‘anti-semitic’ on top of that. No wonder that the same people hate them all, the people who made every effort to uproot Orthodoxy from Russian land, unsuccessfully. “I feel nothing but almost physical hatred for the man”, “[I would like] tear Dostoevsky to pieces” for “his idea of Russians as special, holy people, his cult of suffering and the false choices he presents.” -Anatoly Chubais.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack

    “The Greek confession, separate from all others, gives us a special national character”.
     
    Russian ethnophilitism revealed - the Russian mandate to Christianize the world, Russian style (Russian Orthodoxy). Lacking a satisfactory secular philosophy with which to entice the world, we see a tightening of ties between the ROC and the Kremlin. It's not just a coincidence that Patiriarch Kirill has an office of his own within the Kremlin:

    In his December 1 speech, the president frequently alluded to morality, ethics, and spirituality, established concepts in Russian propaganda discourse used to contrast the “amoral” West with Russian “spirituality and morality.” The way Putin sees it, the church helps the Russian regime to conduct its propaganda campaign on the world stage, supporting Russia’s status as a “beacon of traditional values.”
     
    https://carnegie.ru/commentary/75058

    But as we all know, Russia and Putin himself are not beacons of 'traditional values' but outposts of Western culture through and through. It's all fantasy folks!

    , @AnonFromTN
    How can an opinion be more than an opinion? One opinion does not prove another right or wrong, it’s just an opinion.

    What I wrote is my opinion, I did not sell it as somebody else’s. In my opinion Dostoyevsky is one of the greatest writers in human history (sometimes even prescient: read the Demons). This does not mean that he was always right. The same goes for Pushkin: he was an outstanding poet, one of the best in Russian literature (you can’t really compare poetry between languages like you compare prose; translated poem makes about as much sense as alcohol-free vodka), but that does not mean he was right in everything. Putin is a man with ordinary abilities and common sense. He looks so great only because current Western “leaders” are pathetic nonentities. Again, he is not always right. E.g., he keeps Chubais near the throne and the trough, while by rights this scum deserves to be hung publicly, maybe even by the balls. Solzh was a pretentious fraud, especially evaluated in the context of Russian literature. He is so much below Dostoyevsky, Pushkin, Tolstoy, Gogol, Bulgakov, and many others that it’s offensive to even compare him to the real writers or poets. Again, this is my opinion, not somebody else’s.
  245. @Dmitry
    Obviously this is much more a cultural problem with these people.

    Currently scary problem with Chechens for the future, is this promotion of Islam (whether non-political or not) by Kadyrov. So they could become increasingly more in the future a nationality of Talhas, rather than of Anatoly Karlins.

    Islamicizing itself is not exactly sustainable though - eventually they or their descendants will always have to (as all people will eventually) return to the natural process of secularizing and civilizing themselves, becoming normal human beings.

    Islamicizing itself is not exactly sustainable though – eventually they or their descendants will always have to (as all people will eventually) return to the natural process of secularizing and civilizing themselves, becoming normal human beings.

    Fanatic savagery is the natural state of humans and it is not evident that all nationalities will (or can) eventually develop a genuine consciousness.

  246. @AnonFromTN
    In some ways Kazakhstan is a powder keg. Many white people there are preparing for ethnic cleansing, similar to what happened in the other four post-Soviet republics in Central Asia. Apparently, some are running away w/o waiting for that to happen.

    I agree that the people in Kazakhstan we ever meet are cool. But these are either white people, or civilized urban Kazakhs for whom Russian is a mother tongue. I know several people from Kazakhstan, all good people. All of them fall into these categories, though. Kazakh nationalism is popular among uneducated village dwellers. However, as they breed much faster, the demographic situation in Kazakhstan is rapidly changing to the disadvantage of civilized people of both races. For now, Nazarbayev’s regime controls tribal forces, but he is very old and won’t live forever. After him, all bets are off.

    What are the prospects, if any, of the previously proposed (re)union of Russia, Belarus, and Kazakhstan?

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    I have no idea. Not to mention that Belarus and Kazakhstan are in different leagues. Kazakhstan pays its way and has everything to do so in the foreseeable future (unless they commit national suicide, like poor unfortunate Ukraine). Belarus never paid for itself since 1991, it exists the way it does exclusively due to Russian subsidies, direct and indirect. From my perspective, Russia should not unite with Belarus: the only good thing that came out of the breakup of the USSR was that Russia got rid of various parasites. Why accept those helminths again?
  247. @Seraphim
    Russian expansion in Siberia follows shortly after the conquest of Kazan by the first Tsar, Ivan IV. It was a state policy implemented by all subsequent Tsars.

    Russian expansion in Siberia follows shortly after the conquest of Kazan by the first Tsar, Ivan IV. It was a state policy implemented by all subsequent Tsars.

    As you can see the conquest of Siberia took place through the land located far North of Kazan

    Part of the conquests took place in the course of completely private expeditions (eg campaign of Ermak) , other conquests were carried out with the support of the state, but by private forces. A close analogue of the conquerors of Siberia, a European Corsair in the Royal service-such as Francis Drake.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    The conquest of Kazan (1552) was shortly followed by the conquest of the Khanate of Sibir (capital Tyumen - roughly same latitude as Kazan, just a bit North). Already in 1555 the Khan Yadegar consented to pay tribute in fur to Moscow.
    All 'private' expeditions were carried on at the behest of the state. The principal role was played by the Stroganov family of highly successful Russian merchants, industrialists, landowners, and statesmen. They financed the Russian conquest of Siberia and Prince Pozharsky's reconquest of Moscow from the Poles. They recruited and financed Yermak.
  248. @AnonFromTN
    Whatever Pushkin’s origins, they were certainly not Russian. That does not prevent him from being the greatest Russian poet of all times.

    I don’t think Orthodoxy played a decisive role. Like all religions, Orthodoxy is 10% sincere goodness and 90% hypocrisy. I think it’s just the fact that Russians lived side-by-side with various non-Russians for centuries, so both sides learned to behave themselves simply to survive (tribally-minded jerks on both sides were killed and left no progeny). The main problem with Europe is that Europeans never lived next to phenotypically and culturally different neighbors. This fed both prevailing Nazi-like attitude (aborigines are inhuman savages) and rank ineptitude in dealing with different people when the need arises.

    Whatever Pushkin’s origins, they were certainly not Russian. That does not prevent him from being the greatest Russian poet of all times.

    Pushkin’s great-grandfather on the maternal side was definitely not Russian. The Pushkins family was an old Russian noble family, known since the middle ages.

    • Replies: @AP
    Pushkin's non-African maternal ancestors were nobles of German and Scandinavian descent. The Pushkin family itself is supposedly of German origin, although they were in Russia since the 12th century.

    A very large % of Russia's pre-Communist political and cultural elite were Russian by culture but not by descent. "Foreigners" such as Rurikids, Baltic Germans, Russified Poles or Lithuanians LARPing as Russian Eastern Slavs. Bolsheviks slaughtered or drove them into exile, replacing one group of non-Russian elite with another. After the Revolution, Russia was ruled largely by Caucasians, Jews and Balts instead of by these families of Russified Scandinavians, Germans, Tatars, etc. (under Stalin Jews and Balts were mostly liquidated and replaced by Caucasians)

    The post-Stalin period is probably the first time in history when Russia was actually led overwhelmingly by ethnic Russians. Until then actual ethnic Russians were mostly peasants, village priests, minor nobles at most.

    , @AnonFromTN
    The majority in this “old Russian noble family” was not Russian ethnically. The same is true for most of “noble Russian families”, including tsars. My point is that Russian is not a nationality (tribally defined), but much greater than that. Russia is a civilization, distinct from both European and Chinese ones. The US is also not a nationality, but a distinct civilization. All countries defined by tribal links are inferior to civilizations.
  249. @Dmitry

    Tatars (this is genetically very heterogeneous category

     

    Yes some look all the way like Kazakhs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgfiGtWdVuo

    Yes some look all the way like Kazakhs

    The Volga Tatars look more southern than “Asian”. Here are two Olympic Champions – Rita Mamun (half-Indian ) and Alina Zagitova (Tatar). They look like sisters.
    But also exist atypical “Nordic” татары

    • Replies: @DFH
    That is a very European looking half-Indian. In general they have much more 'Southern' looking hair (often curly or very wavy) and more prominent noses.
    , @Dmitry
    Zagitova could be 50% Japanese for appearance.

    https://i.imgur.com/TJsU5Hc.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/adpxK7H.jpg

    But something recessive - as the parents do not.

    https://i.imgur.com/t4VuCCj.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/OOjPLie.jpg

    , @Philip Owen
    I cannot reliably distinguish a Tatar from a Russian. Some of my Russian freinds (Rodnoveri) claim there is no difference. To them Tatars are Russians who did not Christianize. But then they believe that Russians are not Slavs but the former inhabitants of Great Tataria.
  250. @melanf

    Whatever Pushkin’s origins, they were certainly not Russian. That does not prevent him from being the greatest Russian poet of all times.
     
    Pushkin's great-grandfather on the maternal side was definitely not Russian. The Pushkins family was an old Russian noble family, known since the middle ages.

    Pushkin’s non-African maternal ancestors were nobles of German and Scandinavian descent. The Pushkin family itself is supposedly of German origin, although they were in Russia since the 12th century.

    A very large % of Russia’s pre-Communist political and cultural elite were Russian by culture but not by descent. “Foreigners” such as Rurikids, Baltic Germans, Russified Poles or Lithuanians LARPing as Russian Eastern Slavs. Bolsheviks slaughtered or drove them into exile, replacing one group of non-Russian elite with another. After the Revolution, Russia was ruled largely by Caucasians, Jews and Balts instead of by these families of Russified Scandinavians, Germans, Tatars, etc. (under Stalin Jews and Balts were mostly liquidated and replaced by Caucasians)

    The post-Stalin period is probably the first time in history when Russia was actually led overwhelmingly by ethnic Russians. Until then actual ethnic Russians were mostly peasants, village priests, minor nobles at most.

    • Replies: @melanf

    Pushkin’s non-African maternal ancestors were nobles of German and Scandinavian descent. The Pushkin family itself is supposedly of German origin, although they were in Russia since the 12th century.A very large % of Russia’s pre-Communist political and cultural elite were Russian by culture but not by descent.
     
    This is quite typical for Europe (and especially for the European aristocracy). The descendants of Alexander Pushkin (who became princes in Germany and claimed the throne of Luxembourg) are vivid proof of this.
    , @melanf

    The post-Stalin period is probably the first time in history when Russia was actually led overwhelmingly by ethnic Russians.
     
    It's nonsense. From the early middle ages, until 1761, in power in Russia were "genetically" Russian dynasty (Rurikids then Romanovs)
    , @Mr. XYZ
    In regards to your last paragraph here, weren't a large percentage of Russia's post-Cold War oligarchs Jews? I seem to recall Anatoly Karlin previously saying that, out of the seven big Russian oligarchs in the 1990s, six were Jews (and I'm considering descent through the father's line to count for this since I am not a big fan of halakha).
  251. @AP
    Pushkin's non-African maternal ancestors were nobles of German and Scandinavian descent. The Pushkin family itself is supposedly of German origin, although they were in Russia since the 12th century.

    A very large % of Russia's pre-Communist political and cultural elite were Russian by culture but not by descent. "Foreigners" such as Rurikids, Baltic Germans, Russified Poles or Lithuanians LARPing as Russian Eastern Slavs. Bolsheviks slaughtered or drove them into exile, replacing one group of non-Russian elite with another. After the Revolution, Russia was ruled largely by Caucasians, Jews and Balts instead of by these families of Russified Scandinavians, Germans, Tatars, etc. (under Stalin Jews and Balts were mostly liquidated and replaced by Caucasians)

    The post-Stalin period is probably the first time in history when Russia was actually led overwhelmingly by ethnic Russians. Until then actual ethnic Russians were mostly peasants, village priests, minor nobles at most.

    Pushkin’s non-African maternal ancestors were nobles of German and Scandinavian descent. The Pushkin family itself is supposedly of German origin, although they were in Russia since the 12th century.A very large % of Russia’s pre-Communist political and cultural elite were Russian by culture but not by descent.

    This is quite typical for Europe (and especially for the European aristocracy). The descendants of Alexander Pushkin (who became princes in Germany and claimed the throne of Luxembourg) are vivid proof of this.

  252. @AP
    Pushkin's non-African maternal ancestors were nobles of German and Scandinavian descent. The Pushkin family itself is supposedly of German origin, although they were in Russia since the 12th century.

    A very large % of Russia's pre-Communist political and cultural elite were Russian by culture but not by descent. "Foreigners" such as Rurikids, Baltic Germans, Russified Poles or Lithuanians LARPing as Russian Eastern Slavs. Bolsheviks slaughtered or drove them into exile, replacing one group of non-Russian elite with another. After the Revolution, Russia was ruled largely by Caucasians, Jews and Balts instead of by these families of Russified Scandinavians, Germans, Tatars, etc. (under Stalin Jews and Balts were mostly liquidated and replaced by Caucasians)

    The post-Stalin period is probably the first time in history when Russia was actually led overwhelmingly by ethnic Russians. Until then actual ethnic Russians were mostly peasants, village priests, minor nobles at most.

    The post-Stalin period is probably the first time in history when Russia was actually led overwhelmingly by ethnic Russians.

    It’s nonsense. From the early middle ages, until 1761, in power in Russia were “genetically” Russian dynasty (Rurikids then Romanovs)

    • Replies: @AP
    Rurikids - Scandinavian origin.

    Romanovs - mixed up with Rurikids. Second Romanov's wife, Maria Miloslavskaya, was from a family with Polish origins. His next wife, Peter the Great's mother, was from a noble family of Tatar descent.

    It is very hard to find any of Russian elites with actual Russian origin.
  253. This is quite typical for Europe (and especially for the European aristocracy).

    For royal families, sure, but not for aristocracies in general. Let’s look at the origins of Russia’s greatest classic writers of noble descent, for example:

    Gogol – 3/4 Ukrainian, 1/4 Polish

    Dostoyevsky – Dostoevsky’s parents were part of a multi-ethnic and multi-denominational noble family, its branches including Russian Orthodox Christians, Polish Roman Catholics and Ukrainian Eastern Catholics.[4] The family traced its roots back to a Tatar, Aslan Chelebi-Murza, who in 1389 defected from the Golden Horde and joined the forces of Dmitry Donskoy, the first prince of Muscovy to openly challenge the Mongol authority in the region,[5] and whose descendant, Danilo Irtishch, was ennobled and given lands in the Pinsk region (for centuries part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, now in modern-day Belarus) in 1509 for his services under a local prince, his progeny then taking the name “Dostoevsky” based on a village there called Dostoïevo.

    Tolstoy – The Tolstoys were a well-known family of old Russian nobility who traced their ancestry to a mythical nobleman named Indris described by Pyotr Tolstoy as arriving “from Nemec, from the lands of Caesar” to Chernigov in 1353 along with his two sons Litvinos (or Litvonis) and Zimonten (or Zigmont) and a druzhina of 3000 people.[7][8] While the word “Nemec” has been long used to describe Germans only, back in the days it was applied to any foreigner who didn’t speak Russian (from the word nemoy meaning mute).[9] Indris was then converted to Eastern Orthodoxy under the name of Leonty and his sons — as Konstantin and Feodor, respectively. Konstantin’s grandson Andrei Kharitonovich was nicknamed Tolstiy (translated as fat) by Vasily II of Moscow after he moved from Chernigov to Moscow.[7][8]

    Because of the pagan names and the fact that Chernigov at the time was ruled by Demetrius I Starshy some researches concluded that they were Lithuanians who arrived from the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, then part of the State of the Teutonic Order.

    Turgenev – Ivan Sergeyevich Turgenev was born in Oryol (modern-day Oryol Oblast, Russia) to noble Russian parents Sergei Nikolaevich Turgenev (1793–1834), a colonel in the Russian cavalry who took part in the Patriotic War of 1812, and Varvara Petrovna Turgeneva (née Lutovinova; 1787–1850). His father belonged to an old, but impoverished Turgenev family of Tula aristocracy that traces its history to the 15th century when a Tatar Mirza Lev Turgen (Ivan Turgenev after baptizing) left the Golden Horde to serve Vasily II of Moscow.

    Bulgakov – also Tatar origin

    Lermontov – Mikhail Yuryevich Lermontov was born in Moscow into the respectable noble family of Lermontov, and he grew up in the village of Tarkhany (now Lermontovo in Penza Oblast).[2] His paternal family descended from the Scottish family of Learmonth, and can be traced to Yuri (George) Learmonth, a Scottish officer in the Polish-Lithuanian service who settled in Russia in the middle of the 17th century

    It’s funny that the Slavophile Aksyonov is from a family with Scandinavian origins.

    So basically, the elite in Russia were non-Russians coming together and LARPing as Russian Eastern Slavs, ethnic Russians were mostly peasants.

    ::::::::::::::

    In contrast with Germany – Goethe, Schiller were from ethnic German families. France – Voltaire, Moliere, of French families. Poland – mostly Polish but some Lithuanian and Ruthenian-origin families.

    I suppose England can be compared with Russia – much of the English aristocracy were of French Norman rather than native English descent. But Russia stands out.

    • Replies: @melanf

    For royal families, sure, but not for aristocracies in general. Let’s look at the origins of Russia’s greatest classic writers
     
    From memory, Walter Scott, Stevenson-Scots, Conan Doyle Scottish-Irish-French, Sabbatini-Italian, Conrad-pole. I think this list is easy to continue. And absolutely ridiculously to track 12th-century-foreign-ancestors for writers of the 19th century.
  254. @melanf

    The post-Stalin period is probably the first time in history when Russia was actually led overwhelmingly by ethnic Russians.
     
    It's nonsense. From the early middle ages, until 1761, in power in Russia were "genetically" Russian dynasty (Rurikids then Romanovs)

    Rurikids – Scandinavian origin.

    Romanovs – mixed up with Rurikids. Second Romanov’s wife, Maria Miloslavskaya, was from a family with Polish origins. His next wife, Peter the Great’s mother, was from a noble family of Tatar descent.

    It is very hard to find any of Russian elites with actual Russian origin.

    • Replies: @melanf

    Rurikids – Scandinavian origin.
    Romanovs – mixed up with Rurikids.
     
    The founder of the dynasty (who lived in the 9th century) was undoubtedly a Scandinavian. But this was before the advent of Russia and the Russian people. But Rurikids and
    Romanovs as dynasty which ruled Russia, undoubtedly local: genetically and on language and on culture.
    , @Mr. Hack
    Here's an expanded list of Russian noble families. In addition to the 'native' Russian nobility including Riurikid descent, I notice a lot from Tatar, Georgian and Lithuanian descent too. Of course, there are families of other origins too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_princely_families
  255. @AP

    This is quite typical for Europe (and especially for the European aristocracy).
     
    For royal families, sure, but not for aristocracies in general. Let's look at the origins of Russia's greatest classic writers of noble descent, for example:

    Gogol - 3/4 Ukrainian, 1/4 Polish

    Dostoyevsky - Dostoevsky's parents were part of a multi-ethnic and multi-denominational noble family, its branches including Russian Orthodox Christians, Polish Roman Catholics and Ukrainian Eastern Catholics.[4] The family traced its roots back to a Tatar, Aslan Chelebi-Murza, who in 1389 defected from the Golden Horde and joined the forces of Dmitry Donskoy, the first prince of Muscovy to openly challenge the Mongol authority in the region,[5] and whose descendant, Danilo Irtishch, was ennobled and given lands in the Pinsk region (for centuries part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, now in modern-day Belarus) in 1509 for his services under a local prince, his progeny then taking the name "Dostoevsky" based on a village there called Dostoïevo.

    Tolstoy - The Tolstoys were a well-known family of old Russian nobility who traced their ancestry to a mythical nobleman named Indris described by Pyotr Tolstoy as arriving "from Nemec, from the lands of Caesar" to Chernigov in 1353 along with his two sons Litvinos (or Litvonis) and Zimonten (or Zigmont) and a druzhina of 3000 people.[7][8] While the word "Nemec" has been long used to describe Germans only, back in the days it was applied to any foreigner who didn't speak Russian (from the word nemoy meaning mute).[9] Indris was then converted to Eastern Orthodoxy under the name of Leonty and his sons — as Konstantin and Feodor, respectively. Konstantin's grandson Andrei Kharitonovich was nicknamed Tolstiy (translated as fat) by Vasily II of Moscow after he moved from Chernigov to Moscow.[7][8]

    Because of the pagan names and the fact that Chernigov at the time was ruled by Demetrius I Starshy some researches concluded that they were Lithuanians who arrived from the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, then part of the State of the Teutonic Order.

    Turgenev - Ivan Sergeyevich Turgenev was born in Oryol (modern-day Oryol Oblast, Russia) to noble Russian parents Sergei Nikolaevich Turgenev (1793–1834), a colonel in the Russian cavalry who took part in the Patriotic War of 1812, and Varvara Petrovna Turgeneva (née Lutovinova; 1787–1850). His father belonged to an old, but impoverished Turgenev family of Tula aristocracy that traces its history to the 15th century when a Tatar Mirza Lev Turgen (Ivan Turgenev after baptizing) left the Golden Horde to serve Vasily II of Moscow.

    Bulgakov - also Tatar origin

    Lermontov - Mikhail Yuryevich Lermontov was born in Moscow into the respectable noble family of Lermontov, and he grew up in the village of Tarkhany (now Lermontovo in Penza Oblast).[2] His paternal family descended from the Scottish family of Learmonth, and can be traced to Yuri (George) Learmonth, a Scottish officer in the Polish-Lithuanian service who settled in Russia in the middle of the 17th century

    It's funny that the Slavophile Aksyonov is from a family with Scandinavian origins.

    So basically, the elite in Russia were non-Russians coming together and LARPing as Russian Eastern Slavs, ethnic Russians were mostly peasants.

    ::::::::::::::

    In contrast with Germany - Goethe, Schiller were from ethnic German families. France - Voltaire, Moliere, of French families. Poland - mostly Polish but some Lithuanian and Ruthenian-origin families.

    I suppose England can be compared with Russia - much of the English aristocracy were of French Norman rather than native English descent. But Russia stands out.

    For royal families, sure, but not for aristocracies in general. Let’s look at the origins of Russia’s greatest classic writers

    From memory, Walter Scott, Stevenson-Scots, Conan Doyle Scottish-Irish-French, Sabbatini-Italian, Conrad-pole. I think this list is easy to continue. And absolutely ridiculously to track 12th-century-foreign-ancestors for writers of the 19th century.

    • Replies: @songbird
    What is interesting about Conrad is English was, I believe, his third language or so.
    , @AP
    Shakespeare - English (Bliss will say African); Defoe - English; Dickens, English; Jane Austen, Shelley, English, etc. For England you have t0 find exceptions, in Russia it is standard to have non-Russian origins.

    And absolutely ridiculously to track 12th-century-foreign-ancestors for writers of the 19th century.
     
    Not ridiculous at all. The point is that Russian elite was mostly of non-Russian origin. The time when their ancestors came to Russia is irrelevant to this point. Only peasants were actual ethnic Russians for the most part.

    Anon from TN was actually correct when he wrote that being Russian is a "state of mind." Russian elites were mostly just foreigners playing Russians, actual Russians were the peasants whom they ruled.
  256. @AP
    Rurikids - Scandinavian origin.

    Romanovs - mixed up with Rurikids. Second Romanov's wife, Maria Miloslavskaya, was from a family with Polish origins. His next wife, Peter the Great's mother, was from a noble family of Tatar descent.

    It is very hard to find any of Russian elites with actual Russian origin.

    Rurikids – Scandinavian origin.
    Romanovs – mixed up with Rurikids.

    The founder of the dynasty (who lived in the 9th century) was undoubtedly a Scandinavian. But this was before the advent of Russia and the Russian people. But Rurikids and
    Romanovs as dynasty which ruled Russia, undoubtedly local: genetically and on language and on culture.

    • Replies: @AP
    Rurikids maintained a mostly Scandinavian bloodline until the 12th century. And then they mixed with Tatars.

    Romanovs started as Russians (they had rather humble origins) but soon married with Poles and Tatars. And from Catherine II they were Germans.

    But Russia's elite's foreign origins went far beyond only the royal family. After all, many European countries had a non-native royal family. But in Russian the entire elite was pretty much foreign origin. Verndasky had a survey of 17th century Russian noble families. The exact origins of the families surveyed were: 229 of Western European (including German) origin, 223 of Polish and Lithuanian origin (this number included Ruthenian nobility), 156 of Tatar and other Oriental origin, 168 families belonged to the House of Rurik and 42 were of unspecified "Russian" origin.
    After the 17th century the influx of Baltic Germans and Ukrainians made the elite even less Russian by origin.

    In Europe, only the English after the Norman conquest had an elite as foreign as was Russia's. Outside Europe, Manchurians over Han Chinese, or Mughal rulers of India come to mind.
  257. @melanf

    Russian expansion in Siberia follows shortly after the conquest of Kazan by the first Tsar, Ivan IV. It was a state policy implemented by all subsequent Tsars.
     
    As you can see the conquest of Siberia took place through the land located far North of Kazan

    https://www.mapmania.org/static/map/original/russian_expansion_into_siberia_16th_and_17th_century_59916.jpg

    Part of the conquests took place in the course of completely private expeditions (eg campaign of Ermak) , other conquests were carried out with the support of the state, but by private forces. A close analogue of the conquerors of Siberia, a European Corsair in the Royal service-such as Francis Drake.

    The conquest of Kazan (1552) was shortly followed by the conquest of the Khanate of Sibir (capital Tyumen – roughly same latitude as Kazan, just a bit North). Already in 1555 the Khan Yadegar consented to pay tribute in fur to Moscow.
    All ‘private’ expeditions were carried on at the behest of the state. The principal role was played by the Stroganov family of highly successful Russian merchants, industrialists, landowners, and statesmen. They financed the Russian conquest of Siberia and Prince Pozharsky’s reconquest of Moscow from the Poles. They recruited and financed Yermak.

    • Replies: @melanf

    All ‘private’ expeditions were carried on at the behest of the state.
     
    Definitely no

    They recruited and financed Yermak.
     
    "Максим Строганов соглашался выдать казакам некоторое количество хлеба, но не иначе как взаймы под проценты, «прося у них кабалы». «Егда возвратитеся, на ком те припасы по цене взяти, и кто отдаст, точно или с лихвой?» — спрашивал купец у ермаковцев. Возмущенные казаки приступили к Максиму «гызом» и едва не убили его. Иван Кольцо пригрозил Максиму, что расстреляет его. Испугавшись угроз, Максим открыл амбары и отпустил запас на казачьи струги «по запросу»."

    https://www.litmir.me/bd/?b=97099&p=1

    Of course they funded Ermak - when the Ermaks pirates aimed a gun at Maxim Stroganov, and promised to kill him if he did not pay. .
    , @Philip Owen
    A sort of mini East India Company or perhaps Hudson Bay Company is a closer analogy, although the HBC traded rather than exacted tribute. It tends to be less expensive in the end.
  258. @songbird
    What happened in America wasn't purely organic either, but involved the state assuming powers not granted to it, often first through the courts. (It was quite similar to what happened with gays) Though one could make the argument that everything was a delayed consequence of the Civil War, which involved physical armies. Not to mention JFK actually using federal troops to desegregate the University of Alabama.

    What happened in Europe can only be explained by European politicians being ignorant about what really happened in America, which is explained by it being a forbidden topic.

    Not to mention JFK actually using federal troops to desegregate the University of Alabama.

    Southron resistance to desegregation is actually rather interesting, I have read about it in mainstream sources, but American race realist writing, in my (admittedly limited) impression, do not talk about it very much.

    What happened in Europe can only be explained by European politicians being ignorant about what really happened in America, which is explained by it being a forbidden topic.

    The worldview and education of European bien-pensants can be summed by reading the condescending New York Times and Washington Post, plus some stereotypical views.

    (I’ll admit also I do this sometimes. Once we met an American pair on vacation and we were so sure they were from Texas, apparently they were from Illinois. Their Texas imitation sounded even more extreme to my ears.)

    • Replies: @songbird
    I've wondered a bit about what a full list of the city pairs of student exchanges would look like at the level of public high school, between America and Europe. I bet anything it would mostly be American suburbs paired with real European cities.

    In Boston, there was some resistance to busing (desegregation of public schools.). My impression is that it mostly came from the poor whites living in the projects, which were also being desegregated. Curiously, many blacks from other parts of the country still call Boston a racist city. Only about 13% of the kids in public schools in the city are white now. In the '50s Boston was still about 97% white.

    In the first years of busing, South Boston High (once a very white area) was protected by 500 police officers everyday. More cops than students (who showed up.)
  259. @melanf

    Yes some look all the way like Kazakhs
     
    The Volga Tatars look more southern than "Asian". Here are two Olympic Champions - Rita Mamun (half-Indian ) and Alina Zagitova (Tatar). They look like sisters.
    https://rusbiathlon.ru/foto/230/115126.jpg

    But also exist atypical "Nordic" татары
    https://i080.radikal.ru/1007/de/fae079e496a0.jpg

    https://s018.radikal.ru/i514/1202/90/737123ca193f.jpg

    That is a very European looking half-Indian. In general they have much more ‘Southern’ looking hair (often curly or very wavy) and more prominent noses.

  260. @Seraphim
    The conquest of Kazan (1552) was shortly followed by the conquest of the Khanate of Sibir (capital Tyumen - roughly same latitude as Kazan, just a bit North). Already in 1555 the Khan Yadegar consented to pay tribute in fur to Moscow.
    All 'private' expeditions were carried on at the behest of the state. The principal role was played by the Stroganov family of highly successful Russian merchants, industrialists, landowners, and statesmen. They financed the Russian conquest of Siberia and Prince Pozharsky's reconquest of Moscow from the Poles. They recruited and financed Yermak.

    All ‘private’ expeditions were carried on at the behest of the state.

    Definitely no

    They recruited and financed Yermak.

    “Максим Строганов соглашался выдать казакам некоторое количество хлеба, но не иначе как взаймы под проценты, «прося у них кабалы». «Егда возвратитеся, на ком те припасы по цене взяти, и кто отдаст, точно или с лихвой?» — спрашивал купец у ермаковцев. Возмущенные казаки приступили к Максиму «гызом» и едва не убили его. Иван Кольцо пригрозил Максиму, что расстреляет его. Испугавшись угроз, Максим открыл амбары и отпустил запас на казачьи струги «по запросу».”

    https://www.litmir.me/bd/?b=97099&p=1

    Of course they funded Ermak – when the Ermaks pirates aimed a gun at Maxim Stroganov, and promised to kill him if he did not pay. .

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    The point was hotly debated by historians. But judging the things from the standpoint of Moscow eastern policy, it is more likely that the initiative belonged to the Stroganovs and that Maxim summoned Yermak. But no doubt that the Cossacks had always had a propensity for brigandage.
  261. @melanf

    All ‘private’ expeditions were carried on at the behest of the state.
     
    Definitely no

    They recruited and financed Yermak.
     
    "Максим Строганов соглашался выдать казакам некоторое количество хлеба, но не иначе как взаймы под проценты, «прося у них кабалы». «Егда возвратитеся, на ком те припасы по цене взяти, и кто отдаст, точно или с лихвой?» — спрашивал купец у ермаковцев. Возмущенные казаки приступили к Максиму «гызом» и едва не убили его. Иван Кольцо пригрозил Максиму, что расстреляет его. Испугавшись угроз, Максим открыл амбары и отпустил запас на казачьи струги «по запросу»."

    https://www.litmir.me/bd/?b=97099&p=1

    Of course they funded Ermak - when the Ermaks pirates aimed a gun at Maxim Stroganov, and promised to kill him if he did not pay. .

    The point was hotly debated by historians. But judging the things from the standpoint of Moscow eastern policy, it is more likely that the initiative belonged to the Stroganovs and that Maxim summoned Yermak. But no doubt that the Cossacks had always had a propensity for brigandage.

  262. @AP
    Rurikids - Scandinavian origin.

    Romanovs - mixed up with Rurikids. Second Romanov's wife, Maria Miloslavskaya, was from a family with Polish origins. His next wife, Peter the Great's mother, was from a noble family of Tatar descent.

    It is very hard to find any of Russian elites with actual Russian origin.

    Here’s an expanded list of Russian noble families. In addition to the ‘native’ Russian nobility including Riurikid descent, I notice a lot from Tatar, Georgian and Lithuanian descent too. Of course, there are families of other origins too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_princely_families

  263. @Seraphim
    It was not Dostoevsky's opinion. Neither Solzhenitsyn's. Or, perhaps worse, Putin's: "It Is Impossible to Imagine Russia Without Christianity". They believed in a Christian mission of Russia. BTW, it was Pushkin's opinion too: “The great spiritual and political revolution of our planet is Christianity. Within this sacred element the world disappeared and was renewed”, “We are obliged to the monks for our history, and consequently our enlightenment”, “The Greek confession, separate from all others, gives us a special national character”.
    But they were not 'Darwinians', and 'anti-semitic' on top of that. No wonder that the same people hate them all, the people who made every effort to uproot Orthodoxy from Russian land, unsuccessfully. "I feel nothing but almost physical hatred for the man”, “[I would like] tear Dostoevsky to pieces” for “his idea of Russians as special, holy people, his cult of suffering and the false choices he presents.” -Anatoly Chubais.

    “The Greek confession, separate from all others, gives us a special national character”.

    Russian ethnophilitism revealed – the Russian mandate to Christianize the world, Russian style (Russian Orthodoxy). Lacking a satisfactory secular philosophy with which to entice the world, we see a tightening of ties between the ROC and the Kremlin. It’s not just a coincidence that Patiriarch Kirill has an office of his own within the Kremlin:

    In his December 1 speech, the president frequently alluded to morality, ethics, and spirituality, established concepts in Russian propaganda discourse used to contrast the “amoral” West with Russian “spirituality and morality.” The way Putin sees it, the church helps the Russian regime to conduct its propaganda campaign on the world stage, supporting Russia’s status as a “beacon of traditional values.”

    https://carnegie.ru/commentary/75058

    But as we all know, Russia and Putin himself are not beacons of ‘traditional values’ but outposts of Western culture through and through. It’s all fantasy folks!

    • Replies: @Aedib

    https://carnegie.ru/commentary/75058
     
    LOL
  264. @melanf

    Yes some look all the way like Kazakhs
     
    The Volga Tatars look more southern than "Asian". Here are two Olympic Champions - Rita Mamun (half-Indian ) and Alina Zagitova (Tatar). They look like sisters.
    https://rusbiathlon.ru/foto/230/115126.jpg

    But also exist atypical "Nordic" татары
    https://i080.radikal.ru/1007/de/fae079e496a0.jpg

    https://s018.radikal.ru/i514/1202/90/737123ca193f.jpg

    Zagitova could be 50% Japanese for appearance.

    But something recessive – as the parents do not.

    • Replies: @melanf

    Zagitova could be 50% Japanese for appearance.
     
    half japan, half german
    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_08E65poLKI4/Slds6z_P-JI/AAAAAAAAANE/jTJIDqiePCg/s400/Olivia-Lufkin-Picture.jpg

    mestizo of the first generation have so "various" appearance that it is difficult to compare.

  265. @melanf

    For royal families, sure, but not for aristocracies in general. Let’s look at the origins of Russia’s greatest classic writers
     
    From memory, Walter Scott, Stevenson-Scots, Conan Doyle Scottish-Irish-French, Sabbatini-Italian, Conrad-pole. I think this list is easy to continue. And absolutely ridiculously to track 12th-century-foreign-ancestors for writers of the 19th century.

    What is interesting about Conrad is English was, I believe, his third language or so.

  266. OT

    Ukraine to deliver a very long range radar to Israel. It’s apparently better than a similar Russian model.

    https://defence-blog.com/army/israel-received-kolchuga-m-passive-radar-system.html

    • Replies: @Sean
    It is solely for tracking rogue Ukrainian missiles

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812

    Siberia Airlines Flight 1812[2] was a commercial flight shot down by the Ukrainian Air Force over the Black Sea on 4 October 2001, en route from Tel Aviv, Israel to Novosibirsk, Russia. The aircraft, a Soviet-made Tupolev Tu-154, carried an estimated 66 passengers and 12 crew members. Most of the passengers were Israelis visiting relatives in Russia. There were no survivors.
     
    Ukraine has an interesting export promotion policy.
  267. @reiner Tor
    OT

    Ukraine to deliver a very long range radar to Israel. It’s apparently better than a similar Russian model.

    https://defence-blog.com/army/israel-received-kolchuga-m-passive-radar-system.html

    It is solely for tracking rogue Ukrainian missiles

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812

    Siberia Airlines Flight 1812[2] was a commercial flight shot down by the Ukrainian Air Force over the Black Sea on 4 October 2001, en route from Tel Aviv, Israel to Novosibirsk, Russia. The aircraft, a Soviet-made Tupolev Tu-154, carried an estimated 66 passengers and 12 crew members. Most of the passengers were Israelis visiting relatives in Russia. There were no survivors.

    Ukraine has an interesting export promotion policy.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    It's surely equipment they rent from Ukraine to practice training exercises, not because they actually want to buy Ukrainian equipment.

    E.g. something like how they use MiG-29s for training.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJYAOY_lpAY

    , @AnonFromTN
    As the joke has it, Ukraine is the only country that shot down two civilian aircraft and not a single military one.
  268. @Hyperborean

    Not to mention JFK actually using federal troops to desegregate the University of Alabama.
     
    Southron resistance to desegregation is actually rather interesting, I have read about it in mainstream sources, but American race realist writing, in my (admittedly limited) impression, do not talk about it very much.

    What happened in Europe can only be explained by European politicians being ignorant about what really happened in America, which is explained by it being a forbidden topic.
     
    The worldview and education of European bien-pensants can be summed by reading the condescending New York Times and Washington Post, plus some stereotypical views.

    (I'll admit also I do this sometimes. Once we met an American pair on vacation and we were so sure they were from Texas, apparently they were from Illinois. Their Texas imitation sounded even more extreme to my ears.)

    I’ve wondered a bit about what a full list of the city pairs of student exchanges would look like at the level of public high school, between America and Europe. I bet anything it would mostly be American suburbs paired with real European cities.

    In Boston, there was some resistance to busing (desegregation of public schools.). My impression is that it mostly came from the poor whites living in the projects, which were also being desegregated. Curiously, many blacks from other parts of the country still call Boston a racist city. Only about 13% of the kids in public schools in the city are white now. In the ’50s Boston was still about 97% white.

    In the first years of busing, South Boston High (once a very white area) was protected by 500 police officers everyday. More cops than students (who showed up.)

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    I’ve wondered a bit about what a full list of the city pairs of student exchanges would look like at the level of public high school, between America and Europe. I bet anything it would mostly be American suburbs paired with real European cities.
     
    I don't know about other European countries, but in 1990s Sweden they introduced education reforms similar to what American conservatives and libertarians propose (school vouchers, increased private schools, etc.).

    As part of what I experienced, this meant that the few Swedes left and the at least halfway well-functioning immigrants (European and non-white) who were forced to live in the suburbs due to exorbitant real estate prices all sent their children to proper schools in the city (even though the journey can take hours every day).

    Meanwhile the local suburb schools, which were filled with the worst sort of muslim peasant offspring, became notorious for rumours about drugs, weapons and all the usual things that come with vibrancy.

  269. Bershidsky’s Vision is the Soviet vision.

    The Siberian Curse
    How Communist Planners Left Russia Out in the Cold

    Does this or that plan for Siberia reflect the best use of Russia’s resources for the nation’s well-being? Specifically, as far as regional policy is concerned, the general rule should be: “Locate economic activity in Siberia only if it cannot be done more efficiently (at lower cost) elsewhere.” […]

    You ask why Russia has been late in developing its eastern regions. I’d say it’s just the opposite: its East is far over-developed. Consider the contrast between Russia, on the one hand, and the US and Canada, on the other. In terms of relative shares of total national population and territory, Eastern Siberia and the Russian Far East are roughly 15 times more densely populated than Alaska and Canada’s northern territories. Alaska has only 710,000 residents; Canada’s Northwest Territory and Yukon Territory together have 79,000. Russians complain about the “depopulation” of the East. But if Eastern Siberia and the Russian Far East had followed the American and Canadian patterns, they would in total have barely 1 million residents instead of their current 15 million.

    Liberal economics is the best way to make a powerful economy and punch above one’s weight. The Invisible Hand is the West’s secret weapon

  270. OT

    The UK (I hope the article is not disrespectful) is planning to become a true global player again, I guess this time as a farce.

    https://defence-blog.com/army/u-k-plans-to-build-two-new-military-bases-in-caribbean-and-asia.html

    • Replies: @DFH
    It is ridiculous.

    “I am very much looking at how can we get as much of our resources forward based, actually creating a deterrent but also taking a British presence,” he said.
     
    Who is the naval base in the Caribbean meant to deter?
    , @Thorfinnsson
    The plan is to recover the British West Indies, which is for the first time possible thanks to Trump being President. Then the plantations can be restored, which will replace the lost export markets on the Continent.

    In Asia a new Opium War is planned.
    , @songbird
    The UK draws on the Commonwealth for its troops, does it not? There was a news story a few days ago, about a Ghanaian suing them for damage he supposedly suffered from the cold. Apparently, that is what many Africans do in the UK, which I would not rate as a particularly cold country.

    I don't know if it is just simple fraud, or it betokens good news for the retaking of Europe. Though I do think there are HBD differences regarding the cold. I'm not sure the MENA folks are as susceptible as blacks.

    I must confess that I'm ignorant as to how the recruitment process works. Anyone know if they gain citizenship? Or go awol? The idea of recruiting black troops out of Africa for one's army has got to be among one of the most foolish and PC things ever done. Teddy Roosevelt rated blacks as very cowardly, and poor in battle, though, I believe, he did speak with a forked tongue and praised them in certain quarters.
  271. @Sean
    It is solely for tracking rogue Ukrainian missiles

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812

    Siberia Airlines Flight 1812[2] was a commercial flight shot down by the Ukrainian Air Force over the Black Sea on 4 October 2001, en route from Tel Aviv, Israel to Novosibirsk, Russia. The aircraft, a Soviet-made Tupolev Tu-154, carried an estimated 66 passengers and 12 crew members. Most of the passengers were Israelis visiting relatives in Russia. There were no survivors.
     
    Ukraine has an interesting export promotion policy.

    It’s surely equipment they rent from Ukraine to practice training exercises, not because they actually want to buy Ukrainian equipment.

    E.g. something like how they use MiG-29s for training.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    What I found interesting was that it’s better than what Russia has. I think such early warning radar systems are very useful to Russia, whose main potential adversaries (NATO countries and also Japan) will likely field stealth aircraft.
  272. @songbird
    I've wondered a bit about what a full list of the city pairs of student exchanges would look like at the level of public high school, between America and Europe. I bet anything it would mostly be American suburbs paired with real European cities.

    In Boston, there was some resistance to busing (desegregation of public schools.). My impression is that it mostly came from the poor whites living in the projects, which were also being desegregated. Curiously, many blacks from other parts of the country still call Boston a racist city. Only about 13% of the kids in public schools in the city are white now. In the '50s Boston was still about 97% white.

    In the first years of busing, South Boston High (once a very white area) was protected by 500 police officers everyday. More cops than students (who showed up.)

    I’ve wondered a bit about what a full list of the city pairs of student exchanges would look like at the level of public high school, between America and Europe. I bet anything it would mostly be American suburbs paired with real European cities.

    I don’t know about other European countries, but in 1990s Sweden they introduced education reforms similar to what American conservatives and libertarians propose (school vouchers, increased private schools, etc.).

    As part of what I experienced, this meant that the few Swedes left and the at least halfway well-functioning immigrants (European and non-white) who were forced to live in the suburbs due to exorbitant real estate prices all sent their children to proper schools in the city (even though the journey can take hours every day).

    Meanwhile the local suburb schools, which were filled with the worst sort of muslim peasant offspring, became notorious for rumours about drugs, weapons and all the usual things that come with vibrancy.

    • Replies: @songbird
    In America, there has long been a heated debate about vouchers.

    Most liberals seem to be against them, feeling it would threaten public schools - which they are very fond of both for their brainwashing potential and for the teacher-union money funneled into leftist politics. A few others believe in the somewhat mystical idea of bad schools - that the schools blacks go to are somehow cursed, and if they changed buildings or administrations, it would solve all social problems that blacks have.

    Among conservatives, it is more complicated. Some believe anything that would hurt public schools and increase choice would be positive. Others that it is just a siren song - that vouchers would destroy the last true segregation barrier among blacks and whites, which is economics and price discrimination. I have moved largely from the first camp to the second.
  273. @Dmitry
    It's surely equipment they rent from Ukraine to practice training exercises, not because they actually want to buy Ukrainian equipment.

    E.g. something like how they use MiG-29s for training.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJYAOY_lpAY

    What I found interesting was that it’s better than what Russia has. I think such early warning radar systems are very useful to Russia, whose main potential adversaries (NATO countries and also Japan) will likely field stealth aircraft.

    • Replies: @Sean
    Unlikely this is anything but a charity or diplomatic move to balance the way Israel has excellent relations with Russia. Israel has the best the US has to offer, and Ukraine is a joke country. Their export model tanks malfunctioned at a international showpiece event recently.

    https://defence-blog.com/army/ukraine-trying-hide-info-t-84-tanks-problems.html


    https://www.wired.com/2010/11/blocked-wikileaks-shows-how-irans-air-defense-deal-died/

    The air defence system that Iran paid the Russians for was not delivered for years. Meanwhile Russia held joint exercises with Israel and doubtless showed them how to defeat it. And Russia also publicly pledged to defend Israel against Iran. You can't beat the Jewish state, don't even try.
  274. @reiner Tor
    OT

    The UK (I hope the article is not disrespectful) is planning to become a true global player again, I guess this time as a farce.

    https://defence-blog.com/army/u-k-plans-to-build-two-new-military-bases-in-caribbean-and-asia.html

    It is ridiculous.

    “I am very much looking at how can we get as much of our resources forward based, actually creating a deterrent but also taking a British presence,” he said.

    Who is the naval base in the Caribbean meant to deter?

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    It’s going to effectively deter Venezuelan aggression against an important British ally, the so-called United States of America. The new British superpower has to protect its allies if it is to be taken seriously.
  275. @DFH
    It is ridiculous.

    “I am very much looking at how can we get as much of our resources forward based, actually creating a deterrent but also taking a British presence,” he said.
     
    Who is the naval base in the Caribbean meant to deter?

    It’s going to effectively deter Venezuelan aggression against an important British ally, the so-called United States of America. The new British superpower has to protect its allies if it is to be taken seriously.

    • Replies: @DFH
    We are ready to protect the new republics of South America from any attempts to restore the Bourbon monarchies
  276. @Mr. Hack

    “The Greek confession, separate from all others, gives us a special national character”.
     
    Russian ethnophilitism revealed - the Russian mandate to Christianize the world, Russian style (Russian Orthodoxy). Lacking a satisfactory secular philosophy with which to entice the world, we see a tightening of ties between the ROC and the Kremlin. It's not just a coincidence that Patiriarch Kirill has an office of his own within the Kremlin:

    In his December 1 speech, the president frequently alluded to morality, ethics, and spirituality, established concepts in Russian propaganda discourse used to contrast the “amoral” West with Russian “spirituality and morality.” The way Putin sees it, the church helps the Russian regime to conduct its propaganda campaign on the world stage, supporting Russia’s status as a “beacon of traditional values.”
     
    https://carnegie.ru/commentary/75058

    But as we all know, Russia and Putin himself are not beacons of 'traditional values' but outposts of Western culture through and through. It's all fantasy folks!

  277. @reiner Tor
    It’s going to effectively deter Venezuelan aggression against an important British ally, the so-called United States of America. The new British superpower has to protect its allies if it is to be taken seriously.

    We are ready to protect the new republics of South America from any attempts to restore the Bourbon monarchies

    • Agree: reiner Tor
  278. @reiner Tor
    What I found interesting was that it’s better than what Russia has. I think such early warning radar systems are very useful to Russia, whose main potential adversaries (NATO countries and also Japan) will likely field stealth aircraft.

    Unlikely this is anything but a charity or diplomatic move to balance the way Israel has excellent relations with Russia. Israel has the best the US has to offer, and Ukraine is a joke country. Their export model tanks malfunctioned at a international showpiece event recently.

    https://defence-blog.com/army/ukraine-trying-hide-info-t-84-tanks-problems.html

    https://www.wired.com/2010/11/blocked-wikileaks-shows-how-irans-air-defense-deal-died/

    The air defence system that Iran paid the Russians for was not delivered for years. Meanwhile Russia held joint exercises with Israel and doubtless showed them how to defeat it. And Russia also publicly pledged to defend Israel against Iran. You can’t beat the Jewish state, don’t even try.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    It’s a very low frequency radar, which is good for early warning of the presence of enemy aircraft (including stealth aircraft) and perhaps initial detection of a target, but it’s not very good for fire-control or target illumination, as accuracy is not very good with these types of radar.

    Anyway, it’s obviously going to be used primarily to practice fighting in the presence of Russian radar systems.
  279. @melanf

    For royal families, sure, but not for aristocracies in general. Let’s look at the origins of Russia’s greatest classic writers
     
    From memory, Walter Scott, Stevenson-Scots, Conan Doyle Scottish-Irish-French, Sabbatini-Italian, Conrad-pole. I think this list is easy to continue. And absolutely ridiculously to track 12th-century-foreign-ancestors for writers of the 19th century.

    Shakespeare – English (Bliss will say African); Defoe – English; Dickens, English; Jane Austen, Shelley, English, etc. For England you have t0 find exceptions, in Russia it is standard to have non-Russian origins.

    And absolutely ridiculously to track 12th-century-foreign-ancestors for writers of the 19th century.

    Not ridiculous at all. The point is that Russian elite was mostly of non-Russian origin. The time when their ancestors came to Russia is irrelevant to this point. Only peasants were actual ethnic Russians for the most part.

    Anon from TN was actually correct when he wrote that being Russian is a “state of mind.” Russian elites were mostly just foreigners playing Russians, actual Russians were the peasants whom they ruled.

    • Replies: @melanf

    Shakespeare – English (Bliss will say African); Defoe – English; Dickens, English; Jane Austen, Shelley, English, etc
     
    In your opinion, Ivan Turgenev is not Russian in origin, because Ivan Turgenev (who lived in the 19th century) presumably had a Tatar ancestor (who lived in the 15th century, that is, 400 years before Ivan Turgenev). In this case, Shakespeare is not an Englishman, since he had French ancestors on his mother's side (the noble family of the Ardennes was repeatedly "mixed" with the French aristocracy). Any of the writers you listed are not English, because at a distance of 400 years, they all had foreign ancestors.
  280. @melanf

    Rurikids – Scandinavian origin.
    Romanovs – mixed up with Rurikids.
     
    The founder of the dynasty (who lived in the 9th century) was undoubtedly a Scandinavian. But this was before the advent of Russia and the Russian people. But Rurikids and
    Romanovs as dynasty which ruled Russia, undoubtedly local: genetically and on language and on culture.

    Rurikids maintained a mostly Scandinavian bloodline until the 12th century. And then they mixed with Tatars.

    Romanovs started as Russians (they had rather humble origins) but soon married with Poles and Tatars. And from Catherine II they were Germans.

    But Russia’s elite’s foreign origins went far beyond only the royal family. After all, many European countries had a non-native royal family. But in Russian the entire elite was pretty much foreign origin. Verndasky had a survey of 17th century Russian noble families. The exact origins of the families surveyed were: 229 of Western European (including German) origin, 223 of Polish and Lithuanian origin (this number included Ruthenian nobility), 156 of Tatar and other Oriental origin, 168 families belonged to the House of Rurik and 42 were of unspecified “Russian” origin.
    After the 17th century the influx of Baltic Germans and Ukrainians made the elite even less Russian by origin.

    In Europe, only the English after the Norman conquest had an elite as foreign as was Russia’s. Outside Europe, Manchurians over Han Chinese, or Mughal rulers of India come to mind.

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    The minority Alawites are the elite in Syria nowadays, no?

    BTW, it's interesting that, in spite of the fact that they weren't the historical elite of Russia, Russian peasants still managed to provide a sufficiently powerful backbone for Russia to become a superpower (albeit at a way too high cost in lives). Of course, without Bolshevism, Russia would have very likely become a much mightier political and economic force.
  281. @reiner Tor
    OT

    The UK (I hope the article is not disrespectful) is planning to become a true global player again, I guess this time as a farce.

    https://defence-blog.com/army/u-k-plans-to-build-two-new-military-bases-in-caribbean-and-asia.html

    The plan is to recover the British West Indies, which is for the first time possible thanks to Trump being President. Then the plantations can be restored, which will replace the lost export markets on the Continent.

    In Asia a new Opium War is planned.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    In Asia they also need to be prepared for the eventuality of a sepoy mutiny and Indian rebellion against the East India Company. So I have to say it all makes a lot of sense.
    , @DFH
    I don't think we would even need a military presence to take over the West Indies

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2009487/We-stayed-Britain-Shock-poll-reveals-60-Jamaicans-think-theyd-better-colony.html
    , @German_reader

    Then the plantations can be restored
     
    I suppose that's rather grim news for Britain's black population.
  282. @Sean
    Unlikely this is anything but a charity or diplomatic move to balance the way Israel has excellent relations with Russia. Israel has the best the US has to offer, and Ukraine is a joke country. Their export model tanks malfunctioned at a international showpiece event recently.

    https://defence-blog.com/army/ukraine-trying-hide-info-t-84-tanks-problems.html


    https://www.wired.com/2010/11/blocked-wikileaks-shows-how-irans-air-defense-deal-died/

    The air defence system that Iran paid the Russians for was not delivered for years. Meanwhile Russia held joint exercises with Israel and doubtless showed them how to defeat it. And Russia also publicly pledged to defend Israel against Iran. You can't beat the Jewish state, don't even try.

    It’s a very low frequency radar, which is good for early warning of the presence of enemy aircraft (including stealth aircraft) and perhaps initial detection of a target, but it’s not very good for fire-control or target illumination, as accuracy is not very good with these types of radar.

    Anyway, it’s obviously going to be used primarily to practice fighting in the presence of Russian radar systems.

  283. @Thorfinnsson
    The plan is to recover the British West Indies, which is for the first time possible thanks to Trump being President. Then the plantations can be restored, which will replace the lost export markets on the Continent.

    In Asia a new Opium War is planned.

    In Asia they also need to be prepared for the eventuality of a sepoy mutiny and Indian rebellion against the East India Company. So I have to say it all makes a lot of sense.

  284. @reiner Tor
    OT

    The UK (I hope the article is not disrespectful) is planning to become a true global player again, I guess this time as a farce.

    https://defence-blog.com/army/u-k-plans-to-build-two-new-military-bases-in-caribbean-and-asia.html

    The UK draws on the Commonwealth for its troops, does it not? There was a news story a few days ago, about a Ghanaian suing them for damage he supposedly suffered from the cold. Apparently, that is what many Africans do in the UK, which I would not rate as a particularly cold country.

    I don’t know if it is just simple fraud, or it betokens good news for the retaking of Europe. Though I do think there are HBD differences regarding the cold. I’m not sure the MENA folks are as susceptible as blacks.

    I must confess that I’m ignorant as to how the recruitment process works. Anyone know if they gain citizenship? Or go awol? The idea of recruiting black troops out of Africa for one’s army has got to be among one of the most foolish and PC things ever done. Teddy Roosevelt rated blacks as very cowardly, and poor in battle, though, I believe, he did speak with a forked tongue and praised them in certain quarters.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I think it’s simply a question of a sixty-odd million middle-size country not having enough population to provide manpower for the needs of the armed forces of a fully fledged global superpower. The UK now has to provide for the security needs of a huge colonial empire including the Isle of Man and even the London Borough of Tower Hamlets. It simply needs the Africans, otherwise it would quickly run out of soldiers.
    , @Thorfinnsson
    The British Army has a Gurkha brigade, but I'm not aware of other foreign recruiting for the armed forces.

    Gurkha veterans are allowed to settle in Britain as part of some kind of idiotic right-wing multiculturalism.
    , @Hyperborean

    The UK draws on the Commonwealth for its troops, does it not?
     
    Germany is mulling allowing EU citizens to join the Bundeswehr, which would probably accelerate the draining of the eastern periphery, as salaries are higher.

    http://www.bvoltaire.fr/demain-les-alsaciens-mosellans-pourraient-a-nouveau-integrer-larmee-allemande/

  285. @Thorfinnsson
    The plan is to recover the British West Indies, which is for the first time possible thanks to Trump being President. Then the plantations can be restored, which will replace the lost export markets on the Continent.

    In Asia a new Opium War is planned.
    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    I've often mused that barring foreign interference it would likely to be quite easy to seize control of most of the Caribbean. Probably a few thousand bodybuilding shit posters could get it done with some arms, leadership, training, and cash.

    The only island where serious resistance could be expected is Cuba. Fortunately the US government hates Cuba.

    Tropical Aryans to secure Fox Bolton's blessing for pan-Caribbean surf empire?
    , @songbird
    Perhaps, there is a future for the miscegenated branch of the British monarchy after all. I hope that Prince Harry's children will be given the proper titles to claim it, ie. Prince of Jamaica/Princess of Haiti. Or perhaps, Emperor/Empress would be more appropriate.

    There was a subtle bit of comedy when Queen Victoria was able to wangle the title of Empress of India for herself in imitation of the Kaiser and Czar, despite not having much real power at home.
  286. @songbird
    The UK draws on the Commonwealth for its troops, does it not? There was a news story a few days ago, about a Ghanaian suing them for damage he supposedly suffered from the cold. Apparently, that is what many Africans do in the UK, which I would not rate as a particularly cold country.

    I don't know if it is just simple fraud, or it betokens good news for the retaking of Europe. Though I do think there are HBD differences regarding the cold. I'm not sure the MENA folks are as susceptible as blacks.

    I must confess that I'm ignorant as to how the recruitment process works. Anyone know if they gain citizenship? Or go awol? The idea of recruiting black troops out of Africa for one's army has got to be among one of the most foolish and PC things ever done. Teddy Roosevelt rated blacks as very cowardly, and poor in battle, though, I believe, he did speak with a forked tongue and praised them in certain quarters.

    I think it’s simply a question of a sixty-odd million middle-size country not having enough population to provide manpower for the needs of the armed forces of a fully fledged global superpower. The UK now has to provide for the security needs of a huge colonial empire including the Isle of Man and even the London Borough of Tower Hamlets. It simply needs the Africans, otherwise it would quickly run out of soldiers.

  287. @Thorfinnsson
    The plan is to recover the British West Indies, which is for the first time possible thanks to Trump being President. Then the plantations can be restored, which will replace the lost export markets on the Continent.

    In Asia a new Opium War is planned.

    Then the plantations can be restored

    I suppose that’s rather grim news for Britain’s black population.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    It's wonderful news. Slavery ennobles the negro and allows him to serve a higher calling (the white man).
  288. @Hyperborean

    I’ve wondered a bit about what a full list of the city pairs of student exchanges would look like at the level of public high school, between America and Europe. I bet anything it would mostly be American suburbs paired with real European cities.
     
    I don't know about other European countries, but in 1990s Sweden they introduced education reforms similar to what American conservatives and libertarians propose (school vouchers, increased private schools, etc.).

    As part of what I experienced, this meant that the few Swedes left and the at least halfway well-functioning immigrants (European and non-white) who were forced to live in the suburbs due to exorbitant real estate prices all sent their children to proper schools in the city (even though the journey can take hours every day).

    Meanwhile the local suburb schools, which were filled with the worst sort of muslim peasant offspring, became notorious for rumours about drugs, weapons and all the usual things that come with vibrancy.

    In America, there has long been a heated debate about vouchers.

    Most liberals seem to be against them, feeling it would threaten public schools – which they are very fond of both for their brainwashing potential and for the teacher-union money funneled into leftist politics. A few others believe in the somewhat mystical idea of bad schools – that the schools blacks go to are somehow cursed, and if they changed buildings or administrations, it would solve all social problems that blacks have.

    Among conservatives, it is more complicated. Some believe anything that would hurt public schools and increase choice would be positive. Others that it is just a siren song – that vouchers would destroy the last true segregation barrier among blacks and whites, which is economics and price discrimination. I have moved largely from the first camp to the second.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    I'm strongly opposed to vouchers, even if I sympathize with the political objective of crushing the teachers.

    The whole point of private school is to keep your kids away from the losers who can't afford private school. Vouchers would destroy this.
  289. @songbird
    The UK draws on the Commonwealth for its troops, does it not? There was a news story a few days ago, about a Ghanaian suing them for damage he supposedly suffered from the cold. Apparently, that is what many Africans do in the UK, which I would not rate as a particularly cold country.

    I don't know if it is just simple fraud, or it betokens good news for the retaking of Europe. Though I do think there are HBD differences regarding the cold. I'm not sure the MENA folks are as susceptible as blacks.

    I must confess that I'm ignorant as to how the recruitment process works. Anyone know if they gain citizenship? Or go awol? The idea of recruiting black troops out of Africa for one's army has got to be among one of the most foolish and PC things ever done. Teddy Roosevelt rated blacks as very cowardly, and poor in battle, though, I believe, he did speak with a forked tongue and praised them in certain quarters.

    The British Army has a Gurkha brigade, but I’m not aware of other foreign recruiting for the armed forces.

    Gurkha veterans are allowed to settle in Britain as part of some kind of idiotic right-wing multiculturalism.

  290. @DFH
    I don't think we would even need a military presence to take over the West Indies

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2009487/We-stayed-Britain-Shock-poll-reveals-60-Jamaicans-think-theyd-better-colony.html

    I’ve often mused that barring foreign interference it would likely to be quite easy to seize control of most of the Caribbean. Probably a few thousand bodybuilding shit posters could get it done with some arms, leadership, training, and cash.

    The only island where serious resistance could be expected is Cuba. Fortunately the US government hates Cuba.

    Tropical Aryans to secure Fox Bolton’s blessing for pan-Caribbean surf empire?

    • Replies: @Swarthy Greek
    Most Caribbeans are mulattoes without any sense of identity. Why would they be willing to defend some token form of political independence?
  291. @German_reader

    Then the plantations can be restored
     
    I suppose that's rather grim news for Britain's black population.

    It’s wonderful news. Slavery ennobles the negro and allows him to serve a higher calling (the white man).

  292. @DFH
    I don't think we would even need a military presence to take over the West Indies

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2009487/We-stayed-Britain-Shock-poll-reveals-60-Jamaicans-think-theyd-better-colony.html

    Perhaps, there is a future for the miscegenated branch of the British monarchy after all. I hope that Prince Harry’s children will be given the proper titles to claim it, ie. Prince of Jamaica/Princess of Haiti. Or perhaps, Emperor/Empress would be more appropriate.

    There was a subtle bit of comedy when Queen Victoria was able to wangle the title of Empress of India for herself in imitation of the Kaiser and Czar, despite not having much real power at home.

    • Replies: @Swarthy Greek
    Well there is a precedent for that, although haiti is not a part of the commonwealth :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Jacques_Dessalines
  293. @songbird
    In America, there has long been a heated debate about vouchers.

    Most liberals seem to be against them, feeling it would threaten public schools - which they are very fond of both for their brainwashing potential and for the teacher-union money funneled into leftist politics. A few others believe in the somewhat mystical idea of bad schools - that the schools blacks go to are somehow cursed, and if they changed buildings or administrations, it would solve all social problems that blacks have.

    Among conservatives, it is more complicated. Some believe anything that would hurt public schools and increase choice would be positive. Others that it is just a siren song - that vouchers would destroy the last true segregation barrier among blacks and whites, which is economics and price discrimination. I have moved largely from the first camp to the second.

    I’m strongly opposed to vouchers, even if I sympathize with the political objective of crushing the teachers.

    The whole point of private school is to keep your kids away from the losers who can’t afford private school. Vouchers would destroy this.

  294. @AP
    Shakespeare - English (Bliss will say African); Defoe - English; Dickens, English; Jane Austen, Shelley, English, etc. For England you have t0 find exceptions, in Russia it is standard to have non-Russian origins.

    And absolutely ridiculously to track 12th-century-foreign-ancestors for writers of the 19th century.
     
    Not ridiculous at all. The point is that Russian elite was mostly of non-Russian origin. The time when their ancestors came to Russia is irrelevant to this point. Only peasants were actual ethnic Russians for the most part.

    Anon from TN was actually correct when he wrote that being Russian is a "state of mind." Russian elites were mostly just foreigners playing Russians, actual Russians were the peasants whom they ruled.

    Shakespeare – English (Bliss will say African); Defoe – English; Dickens, English; Jane Austen, Shelley, English, etc

    In your opinion, Ivan Turgenev is not Russian in origin, because Ivan Turgenev (who lived in the 19th century) presumably had a Tatar ancestor (who lived in the 15th century, that is, 400 years before Ivan Turgenev). In this case, Shakespeare is not an Englishman, since he had French ancestors on his mother’s side (the noble family of the Ardennes was repeatedly “mixed” with the French aristocracy). Any of the writers you listed are not English, because at a distance of 400 years, they all had foreign ancestors.

    • Replies: @AP

    In your opinion, Ivan Turgenev is not Russian in origin, because Ivan Turgenev (who lived in the 19th century) presumably had a Tatar ancestor (who lived in the 15th century, that is, 400 years before Ivan Turgenev).
     
    And he also had non-Russian origins on various other lines. Majority of Russian elite had non-Russian origins. Paternal ancestry of these people was for purposes of sampling.

    Among German, French, Polish etc. elites one can find foreigners here and there; among Russian elites one can find the occasional ethnic Russian:

    I already posted the survey of origins: very few Russians. Russians were peasants.

    Verndasky had a survey of 17th century Russian noble families. The exact origins of the families surveyed were: 229 of Western European (including German) origin, 223 of Polish and Lithuanian origin (this number included Ruthenian nobility), 156 of Tatar and other Oriental origin, 168 families belonged to the House of Rurik and 42 were of unspecified “Russian” origin.

     

    As I said, England had a lot of French-Normans among elites.
  295. @melanf

    Shakespeare – English (Bliss will say African); Defoe – English; Dickens, English; Jane Austen, Shelley, English, etc
     
    In your opinion, Ivan Turgenev is not Russian in origin, because Ivan Turgenev (who lived in the 19th century) presumably had a Tatar ancestor (who lived in the 15th century, that is, 400 years before Ivan Turgenev). In this case, Shakespeare is not an Englishman, since he had French ancestors on his mother's side (the noble family of the Ardennes was repeatedly "mixed" with the French aristocracy). Any of the writers you listed are not English, because at a distance of 400 years, they all had foreign ancestors.

    In your opinion, Ivan Turgenev is not Russian in origin, because Ivan Turgenev (who lived in the 19th century) presumably had a Tatar ancestor (who lived in the 15th century, that is, 400 years before Ivan Turgenev).

    And he also had non-Russian origins on various other lines. Majority of Russian elite had non-Russian origins. Paternal ancestry of these people was for purposes of sampling.

    Among German, French, Polish etc. elites one can find foreigners here and there; among Russian elites one can find the occasional ethnic Russian:

    I already posted the survey of origins: very few Russians. Russians were peasants.

    Verndasky had a survey of 17th century Russian noble families. The exact origins of the families surveyed were: 229 of Western European (including German) origin, 223 of Polish and Lithuanian origin (this number included Ruthenian nobility), 156 of Tatar and other Oriental origin, 168 families belonged to the House of Rurik and 42 were of unspecified “Russian” origin.

    As I said, England had a lot of French-Normans among elites.

    • Replies: @Simpleguest
    It must be frustrating: such a profound insight and no one gives a hoot.
    , @melanf

    And he also had non-Russian origins on various other lines.
     
    Shakespeare (and any of the English writers you listed) had foreign ancestors along many lines at a distance of 400 years.

    Among German, French, Polish etc. elites one can find foreigners here and there; among Russian elites one can find the occasional ethnic Russian:
     
    The absolute majority of the Russian nobility was Russian. The existence of a foreign ancestor 400 years ago (in most cases mythological foreign ancestor), does not make a person a foreigner (or do you think that the descendants of Pocahontas - Indians?).

    Verndasky had a survey of 17th century Russian noble families. The exact origins of the families surveyed were: 229 of Western European (including German) origin, 223 of Polish and Lithuanian origin (this number included Ruthenian nobility), 156 of Tatar and other Oriental origin, 168 families belonged to the House of Rurik and 42 were of unspecified “Russian” origin.
     
    That's funny. In the Moscow princedom/Russian Tsardom massively migrated (or passed with their lands) lords of the Russian principalities on the territory of the medieval "Lithuania". Among migrants-aristocrats were ethnic Lithuanians (or rather half and a quarter Lithuanians), but they were few. Polish aristocrats (ethnically Polish) in Moscow princedom/Russian Tsardom did not migrate. "229 of Western European (including German) origin" is of course a mythical genealogies. French/Italian/English / German... aristocracy never moved to medieval Russia. All these false "Western European" genealogies (with few exceptions) mask the origin from the local swineherds.
    Tatar aristocrats really migrated EN masse to Moscow princedom/Russian Tsardom, but there were also false "Tatar genealogies" when the grandson of the local swineherd (grandson who became a feudal Lord) invented genealogy from Genghis Khan.

    House of Rurik - a local dynasty (but funny that were a fake Rurikids, it is known for sure thanks to genetic research).
    If for approximate calculation exclude ethnic Lithuanians, but to consider all "Tatar" genealogies authentic, it will turn out from your list: 229 +223 +168 +42=462 noble families of Russian origin, 156 of foreign origin.

    , @Mr. XYZ
    I wonder if the anti-Semitic discrimination (Pale of Settlement, et cetera) that the German Romanovs introduced in Russia had anything to do with a fear that Jews are going to replace Germans as the dominant Russian elite if the Jews were treated as genuine equals. After all, Jews certainly had the potential for this.

    BTW, it's interesting that Jews are over-represented in the elite of the U.S. right now. Their higher than average IQ probably explains a lot of this, but it's still interesting.
  296. @AP

    In your opinion, Ivan Turgenev is not Russian in origin, because Ivan Turgenev (who lived in the 19th century) presumably had a Tatar ancestor (who lived in the 15th century, that is, 400 years before Ivan Turgenev).
     
    And he also had non-Russian origins on various other lines. Majority of Russian elite had non-Russian origins. Paternal ancestry of these people was for purposes of sampling.

    Among German, French, Polish etc. elites one can find foreigners here and there; among Russian elites one can find the occasional ethnic Russian:

    I already posted the survey of origins: very few Russians. Russians were peasants.

    Verndasky had a survey of 17th century Russian noble families. The exact origins of the families surveyed were: 229 of Western European (including German) origin, 223 of Polish and Lithuanian origin (this number included Ruthenian nobility), 156 of Tatar and other Oriental origin, 168 families belonged to the House of Rurik and 42 were of unspecified “Russian” origin.

     

    As I said, England had a lot of French-Normans among elites.

    It must be frustrating: such a profound insight and no one gives a hoot.

    • Replies: @AP
    Melanf has a habit of denigrating Russian peasants and cheering on the Soviet murder through starvation of millions of them. I am pointing out that he hates real Russians and prefers people of non-Russian origins who larp as Russians over real Russians.

    such a profound insight and no one gives a hoot

     

    Nothing profound about it. It is obvious. A couple people have responded, one multiple times so of course someone gives a hoot.

    Let me guess: you are a Balkanoid?
    , @Seraphim
    Can't you understand that only 'Ukrainians' are the pure Russians.
  297. @Thorfinnsson
    I've often mused that barring foreign interference it would likely to be quite easy to seize control of most of the Caribbean. Probably a few thousand bodybuilding shit posters could get it done with some arms, leadership, training, and cash.

    The only island where serious resistance could be expected is Cuba. Fortunately the US government hates Cuba.

    Tropical Aryans to secure Fox Bolton's blessing for pan-Caribbean surf empire?

    Most Caribbeans are mulattoes without any sense of identity. Why would they be willing to defend some token form of political independence?

    • Replies: @songbird
    I don't doubt there are varying degrees of admixture, but I'm not sure I would call any place mulatto, except the DR (and that has a bit of Amerind) The other places seem more or less what you'd find among the black pop in America, except for Haiti which seems notably blacker.

    You have possibly never seen a Dominican and Haitian in the same room, if you think they don't have a strong sense of identity. Of course, identity exists on different levels. Perhaps, that is just the natural antagonism between black and mulatto.
  298. @Simpleguest
    It must be frustrating: such a profound insight and no one gives a hoot.

    Melanf has a habit of denigrating Russian peasants and cheering on the Soviet murder through starvation of millions of them. I am pointing out that he hates real Russians and prefers people of non-Russian origins who larp as Russians over real Russians.

    such a profound insight and no one gives a hoot

    Nothing profound about it. It is obvious. A couple people have responded, one multiple times so of course someone gives a hoot.

    Let me guess: you are a Balkanoid?

  299. • Replies: @Mitleser
    >he does not know

    https://abload.de/img/148830049467573bbd.jpg
  300. @Swarthy Greek
    Most Caribbeans are mulattoes without any sense of identity. Why would they be willing to defend some token form of political independence?

    I don’t doubt there are varying degrees of admixture, but I’m not sure I would call any place mulatto, except the DR (and that has a bit of Amerind) The other places seem more or less what you’d find among the black pop in America, except for Haiti which seems notably blacker.

    You have possibly never seen a Dominican and Haitian in the same room, if you think they don’t have a strong sense of identity. Of course, identity exists on different levels. Perhaps, that is just the natural antagonism between black and mulatto.

  301. @songbird
    Perhaps, there is a future for the miscegenated branch of the British monarchy after all. I hope that Prince Harry's children will be given the proper titles to claim it, ie. Prince of Jamaica/Princess of Haiti. Or perhaps, Emperor/Empress would be more appropriate.

    There was a subtle bit of comedy when Queen Victoria was able to wangle the title of Empress of India for herself in imitation of the Kaiser and Czar, despite not having much real power at home.

    Well there is a precedent for that, although haiti is not a part of the commonwealth :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Jacques_Dessalines

    • Replies: @songbird
    I assume they will use their monarchical history as an advantage over the French, from whose sphere of influence they have partly wrestled Mali. Why stop at greatest historical extant, when you have proper ambition?
  302. @Seraphim
    It was not Dostoevsky's opinion. Neither Solzhenitsyn's. Or, perhaps worse, Putin's: "It Is Impossible to Imagine Russia Without Christianity". They believed in a Christian mission of Russia. BTW, it was Pushkin's opinion too: “The great spiritual and political revolution of our planet is Christianity. Within this sacred element the world disappeared and was renewed”, “We are obliged to the monks for our history, and consequently our enlightenment”, “The Greek confession, separate from all others, gives us a special national character”.
    But they were not 'Darwinians', and 'anti-semitic' on top of that. No wonder that the same people hate them all, the people who made every effort to uproot Orthodoxy from Russian land, unsuccessfully. "I feel nothing but almost physical hatred for the man”, “[I would like] tear Dostoevsky to pieces” for “his idea of Russians as special, holy people, his cult of suffering and the false choices he presents.” -Anatoly Chubais.

    How can an opinion be more than an opinion? One opinion does not prove another right or wrong, it’s just an opinion.

    What I wrote is my opinion, I did not sell it as somebody else’s. In my opinion Dostoyevsky is one of the greatest writers in human history (sometimes even prescient: read the Demons). This does not mean that he was always right. The same goes for Pushkin: he was an outstanding poet, one of the best in Russian literature (you can’t really compare poetry between languages like you compare prose; translated poem makes about as much sense as alcohol-free vodka), but that does not mean he was right in everything. Putin is a man with ordinary abilities and common sense. He looks so great only because current Western “leaders” are pathetic nonentities. Again, he is not always right. E.g., he keeps Chubais near the throne and the trough, while by rights this scum deserves to be hung publicly, maybe even by the balls. Solzh was a pretentious fraud, especially evaluated in the context of Russian literature. He is so much below Dostoyevsky, Pushkin, Tolstoy, Gogol, Bulgakov, and many others that it’s offensive to even compare him to the real writers or poets. Again, this is my opinion, not somebody else’s.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    You don't sell your opinion, but in your opinion it is the right one, isn't it?
    Isn't that amusing that both 'liberal' and 'socialist' writers found out that Dostoevsky was as poor a writer (“a third-rate writer whose fame is incomprehensible” - Nabokov) as Solzhenitsyn. Reason? Because he created “the ultimate formula of egoism-Antichrist-Europe on one side and brotherhood-Christ-Russia on the other”).
    “How can a man write so badly, so unbelievably badly, and make you feel so deeply?”, mused Hemingway. Hemingway was an anti-fascist, of course.
  303. @Anon
    https://rossaprimavera.ru/news/3c0451e5?fbclid=IwAR2v52cmXRqjfz1iC-9Mp1w2NUpt-7Jamws8rLh4hxkWa78_Zk3TEWzDuEQ

    Why is Russia so cucked?

    >he does not know

  304. @The Scalpel
    What are the prospects, if any, of the previously proposed (re)union of Russia, Belarus, and Kazakhstan?

    I have no idea. Not to mention that Belarus and Kazakhstan are in different leagues. Kazakhstan pays its way and has everything to do so in the foreseeable future (unless they commit national suicide, like poor unfortunate Ukraine). Belarus never paid for itself since 1991, it exists the way it does exclusively due to Russian subsidies, direct and indirect. From my perspective, Russia should not unite with Belarus: the only good thing that came out of the breakup of the USSR was that Russia got rid of various parasites. Why accept those helminths again?

  305. @melanf

    Whatever Pushkin’s origins, they were certainly not Russian. That does not prevent him from being the greatest Russian poet of all times.
     
    Pushkin's great-grandfather on the maternal side was definitely not Russian. The Pushkins family was an old Russian noble family, known since the middle ages.

    The majority in this “old Russian noble family” was not Russian ethnically. The same is true for most of “noble Russian families”, including tsars. My point is that Russian is not a nationality (tribally defined), but much greater than that. Russia is a civilization, distinct from both European and Chinese ones. The US is also not a nationality, but a distinct civilization. All countries defined by tribal links are inferior to civilizations.

  306. @Sean
    It is solely for tracking rogue Ukrainian missiles

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812

    Siberia Airlines Flight 1812[2] was a commercial flight shot down by the Ukrainian Air Force over the Black Sea on 4 October 2001, en route from Tel Aviv, Israel to Novosibirsk, Russia. The aircraft, a Soviet-made Tupolev Tu-154, carried an estimated 66 passengers and 12 crew members. Most of the passengers were Israelis visiting relatives in Russia. There were no survivors.
     
    Ukraine has an interesting export promotion policy.

    As the joke has it, Ukraine is the only country that shot down two civilian aircraft and not a single military one.

    • Replies: @Sean
    Brain drained Ukraine has sold weapons to Saudi Arabia recently. Ukrainian R&D coming up with anything much seems less likely than it being Ukraine--badged US tech. Ukraine sales to Israel is quite possibly a way to transfer US technology to Israel by the back door. Israel got all sorts of privileged access to the F35 technology.They were not allowed to get the F22 but you can bet their custom F35s were vehicles for technology transfer.

    https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-f35-sale-boosts-reciprocal-procurement-in-israel-1001266942

  307. @Swarthy Greek
    Well there is a precedent for that, although haiti is not a part of the commonwealth :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Jacques_Dessalines

    I assume they will use their monarchical history as an advantage over the French, from whose sphere of influence they have partly wrestled Mali. Why stop at greatest historical extant, when you have proper ambition?

  308. @AP

    In your opinion, Ivan Turgenev is not Russian in origin, because Ivan Turgenev (who lived in the 19th century) presumably had a Tatar ancestor (who lived in the 15th century, that is, 400 years before Ivan Turgenev).
     
    And he also had non-Russian origins on various other lines. Majority of Russian elite had non-Russian origins. Paternal ancestry of these people was for purposes of sampling.

    Among German, French, Polish etc. elites one can find foreigners here and there; among Russian elites one can find the occasional ethnic Russian:

    I already posted the survey of origins: very few Russians. Russians were peasants.

    Verndasky had a survey of 17th century Russian noble families. The exact origins of the families surveyed were: 229 of Western European (including German) origin, 223 of Polish and Lithuanian origin (this number included Ruthenian nobility), 156 of Tatar and other Oriental origin, 168 families belonged to the House of Rurik and 42 were of unspecified “Russian” origin.

     

    As I said, England had a lot of French-Normans among elites.

    And he also had non-Russian origins on various other lines.

    Shakespeare (and any of the English writers you listed) had foreign ancestors along many lines at a distance of 400 years.

    Among German, French, Polish etc. elites one can find foreigners here and there; among Russian elites one can find the occasional ethnic Russian:

    The absolute majority of the Russian nobility was Russian. The existence of a foreign ancestor 400 years ago (in most cases mythological foreign ancestor), does not make a person a foreigner (or do you think that the descendants of Pocahontas – Indians?).

    Verndasky had a survey of 17th century Russian noble families. The exact origins of the families surveyed were: 229 of Western European (including German) origin, 223 of Polish and Lithuanian origin (this number included Ruthenian nobility), 156 of Tatar and other Oriental origin, 168 families belonged to the House of Rurik and 42 were of unspecified “Russian” origin.

    That’s funny. In the Moscow princedom/Russian Tsardom massively migrated (or passed with their lands) lords of the Russian principalities on the territory of the medieval “Lithuania”. Among migrants-aristocrats were ethnic Lithuanians (or rather half and a quarter Lithuanians), but they were few. Polish aristocrats (ethnically Polish) in Moscow princedom/Russian Tsardom did not migrate. “229 of Western European (including German) origin” is of course a mythical genealogies. French/Italian/English / German… aristocracy never moved to medieval Russia. All these false “Western European” genealogies (with few exceptions) mask the origin from the local swineherds.
    Tatar aristocrats really migrated EN masse to Moscow princedom/Russian Tsardom, but there were also false “Tatar genealogies” when the grandson of the local swineherd (grandson who became a feudal Lord) invented genealogy from Genghis Khan.

    House of Rurik – a local dynasty (but funny that were a fake Rurikids, it is known for sure thanks to genetic research).
    If for approximate calculation exclude ethnic Lithuanians, but to consider all “Tatar” genealogies authentic, it will turn out from your list: 229 +223 +168 +42=462 noble families of Russian origin, 156 of foreign origin.

    • Replies: @AP

    Shakespeare (and any of the English writers you listed) had foreign ancestors along many lines at a distance of 400 years.
     
    And among Russian aristocrats - most lines. This is the difference.

    It's why I sampled just the paternal lines of the most famous Russian aristocratic authors. Every one of them had foreign origin. But if you sample the paternal lines of English authors - most do not.

    The absolute majority of the Russian nobility was Russian.
     
    And yet, randomly looking just at paternal lines of most famous noble authors - every one had foreign origin. Is it just a wild coincidence?

    The existence of a foreign ancestor 400 years ago (in most cases mythological foreign ancestor), does not make a person a foreigner
     
    I wrote of foreign origin, with little local Russian descent. When, say, 60% of one's ancestors are of foreign origin it is noteworthy.

    That’s funny. In the Moscow princedom/Russian Tsardom massively migrated (or passed with their lands) lords of the Russian principalities on the territory of the medieval “Lithuania”. Among migrants-aristocrats were ethnic Lithuanians (or rather half and a quarter Lithuanians), but they were few. Polish aristocrats (ethnically Polish) in Moscow princedom/Russian Tsardom did not migrate.
     
    Poles came later. Wrubel had Polish origin.

    All these false “Western European” genealogies (with few exceptions) mask the origin from the local swineherds
     
    So when familytree DNA gave me Norway as likely origin, my legendary 12th century Varangian paternal descent was a fairytale?

    And Rurukid DNA project - all from Sweden except the Chernigov branch.
  309. @Dmitry
    Zagitova could be 50% Japanese for appearance.

    https://i.imgur.com/TJsU5Hc.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/adpxK7H.jpg

    But something recessive - as the parents do not.

    https://i.imgur.com/t4VuCCj.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/OOjPLie.jpg

    Zagitova could be 50% Japanese for appearance.

    half japan, half german
    mestizo of the first generation have so “various” appearance that it is difficult to compare.

  310. @AnonFromTN
    How can an opinion be more than an opinion? One opinion does not prove another right or wrong, it’s just an opinion.

    What I wrote is my opinion, I did not sell it as somebody else’s. In my opinion Dostoyevsky is one of the greatest writers in human history (sometimes even prescient: read the Demons). This does not mean that he was always right. The same goes for Pushkin: he was an outstanding poet, one of the best in Russian literature (you can’t really compare poetry between languages like you compare prose; translated poem makes about as much sense as alcohol-free vodka), but that does not mean he was right in everything. Putin is a man with ordinary abilities and common sense. He looks so great only because current Western “leaders” are pathetic nonentities. Again, he is not always right. E.g., he keeps Chubais near the throne and the trough, while by rights this scum deserves to be hung publicly, maybe even by the balls. Solzh was a pretentious fraud, especially evaluated in the context of Russian literature. He is so much below Dostoyevsky, Pushkin, Tolstoy, Gogol, Bulgakov, and many others that it’s offensive to even compare him to the real writers or poets. Again, this is my opinion, not somebody else’s.

    You don’t sell your opinion, but in your opinion it is the right one, isn’t it?
    Isn’t that amusing that both ‘liberal’ and ‘socialist’ writers found out that Dostoevsky was as poor a writer (“a third-rate writer whose fame is incomprehensible” – Nabokov) as Solzhenitsyn. Reason? Because he created “the ultimate formula of egoism-Antichrist-Europe on one side and brotherhood-Christ-Russia on the other”).
    “How can a man write so badly, so unbelievably badly, and make you feel so deeply?”, mused Hemingway. Hemingway was an anti-fascist, of course.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    From what I read (about half of what he wrote) Nabokov is a third-rate writer in Russian and a fourth-fifth rate in English. In contrast, Dostoyevsky was a genius. Again, that is my opinion. Nobody has a monopoly on being right, myself included.
  311. @AnonFromTN
    As the joke has it, Ukraine is the only country that shot down two civilian aircraft and not a single military one.

    Brain drained Ukraine has sold weapons to Saudi Arabia recently. Ukrainian R&D coming up with anything much seems less likely than it being Ukraine–badged US tech. Ukraine sales to Israel is quite possibly a way to transfer US technology to Israel by the back door. Israel got all sorts of privileged access to the F35 technology.They were not allowed to get the F22 but you can bet their custom F35s were vehicles for technology transfer.

    https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-f35-sale-boosts-reciprocal-procurement-in-israel-1001266942

    • Replies: @AP

    Ukrainian R&D coming up with anything much seems less likely than it being Ukraine–badged US tech.
     
    No.

    USA doesn't have this stuff:

    https://defence-blog.com/missiles/new-ukrainian-high-precision-rockets-system-completes-final-test.html
  312. @melanf

    And he also had non-Russian origins on various other lines.
     
    Shakespeare (and any of the English writers you listed) had foreign ancestors along many lines at a distance of 400 years.

    Among German, French, Polish etc. elites one can find foreigners here and there; among Russian elites one can find the occasional ethnic Russian:
     
    The absolute majority of the Russian nobility was Russian. The existence of a foreign ancestor 400 years ago (in most cases mythological foreign ancestor), does not make a person a foreigner (or do you think that the descendants of Pocahontas - Indians?).

    Verndasky had a survey of 17th century Russian noble families. The exact origins of the families surveyed were: 229 of Western European (including German) origin, 223 of Polish and Lithuanian origin (this number included Ruthenian nobility), 156 of Tatar and other Oriental origin, 168 families belonged to the House of Rurik and 42 were of unspecified “Russian” origin.
     
    That's funny. In the Moscow princedom/Russian Tsardom massively migrated (or passed with their lands) lords of the Russian principalities on the territory of the medieval "Lithuania". Among migrants-aristocrats were ethnic Lithuanians (or rather half and a quarter Lithuanians), but they were few. Polish aristocrats (ethnically Polish) in Moscow princedom/Russian Tsardom did not migrate. "229 of Western European (including German) origin" is of course a mythical genealogies. French/Italian/English / German... aristocracy never moved to medieval Russia. All these false "Western European" genealogies (with few exceptions) mask the origin from the local swineherds.
    Tatar aristocrats really migrated EN masse to Moscow princedom/Russian Tsardom, but there were also false "Tatar genealogies" when the grandson of the local swineherd (grandson who became a feudal Lord) invented genealogy from Genghis Khan.

    House of Rurik - a local dynasty (but funny that were a fake Rurikids, it is known for sure thanks to genetic research).
    If for approximate calculation exclude ethnic Lithuanians, but to consider all "Tatar" genealogies authentic, it will turn out from your list: 229 +223 +168 +42=462 noble families of Russian origin, 156 of foreign origin.

    Shakespeare (and any of the English writers you listed) had foreign ancestors along many lines at a distance of 400 years.

    And among Russian aristocrats – most lines. This is the difference.

    It’s why I sampled just the paternal lines of the most famous Russian aristocratic authors. Every one of them had foreign origin. But if you sample the paternal lines of English authors – most do not.

    The absolute majority of the Russian nobility was Russian.

    And yet, randomly looking just at paternal lines of most famous noble authors – every one had foreign origin. Is it just a wild coincidence?

    The existence of a foreign ancestor 400 years ago (in most cases mythological foreign ancestor), does not make a person a foreigner

    I wrote of foreign origin, with little local Russian descent. When, say, 60% of one’s ancestors are of foreign origin it is noteworthy.

    That’s funny. In the Moscow princedom/Russian Tsardom massively migrated (or passed with their lands) lords of the Russian principalities on the territory of the medieval “Lithuania”. Among migrants-aristocrats were ethnic Lithuanians (or rather half and a quarter Lithuanians), but they were few. Polish aristocrats (ethnically Polish) in Moscow princedom/Russian Tsardom did not migrate.

    Poles came later. Wrubel had Polish origin.

    All these false “Western European” genealogies (with few exceptions) mask the origin from the local swineherds

    So when familytree DNA gave me Norway as likely origin, my legendary 12th century Varangian paternal descent was a fairytale?

    And Rurukid DNA project – all from Sweden except the Chernigov branch.

    • Replies: @AP

    Wrubel had Polish origin.
     
    I looked him up on Russian wiki now. Paternal grandfather - Pole. Mother's father was from the old Russian noble Basargin family - Tatar origin, of course. Basargin's wife was a Danish woman. Basargin's mother - from a family from Finland, von Krabbe. Typical non-Russian origin of Russia's pre-Soviet elites. The peasants whom Melanf hates (or at least sneers at) are the real Russians.
    , @melanf

    And yet, randomly looking just at paternal lines of most famous noble authors – every one had foreign origin.
     
    Let's check. Here is a list (created by Anatoly Karlin) of famous Russian writers/poets
    https://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/murray-rbc-eminence-russian-writers.png
    Take the most famous authors who are on the chart above the line 20: Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Pushkin, Turgenev, Gogol, Chekhov.


    Dostoevsky was a descendant of boyar Daniel Rtishchev who in the 16th century was a vassal of the Prince of Pinsk (modern Belarus). Daniel Rtishchev was perhaps a descendant of a Tatar aristocrat who migrated to Moscow in the 14th century.

    Gogol is a descendant of Cossacks from Eastern Ukraine

    Tolstoy is an aristocratic family of Russian origin (this family included two great writers-Alexey Konstantinovich Tolstoy and Alexey Nikolaevich Tolstoy, as well as an exceptionally bad writer Leo Tolstoy). The genealogy from a German medieval aristocrat named Indris is completely mythical.

    Pushkin is an aristocratic family of Russian origin. Genealogy from a medieval Prussian aristocrat named Ratsha is completely mythical.

    Turgenev presumably was a descendant of a Tatar aristocrat who migrated to Moscow in the 15th century.

    Chekhov is a descendant of Russian peasants who lived near Voronezh.

    Summary: of the 6 writers/poets 4 have a purely Russian origin at paternal lines, 2 are presumably have Tatars ancestors ( in the 14th and 15th century, that is 400-500 years before the birth of Turgenev and Dostoevsky). Your statement "randomly looking just at paternal lines of most famous noble authors – every one had foreign origin" is just blatant lie

    I further detail answer your low-quality trolling

  313. @Simpleguest
    It must be frustrating: such a profound insight and no one gives a hoot.

    Can’t you understand that only ‘Ukrainians’ are the pure Russians.

    • Replies: @AP
    Only peasants are true Russians. So Lomonosov, of peasant origin, was a Russian (though a Finnic sort of Russian from the far North). As was Chekhov's father (his mother was a Ukrainian). But elites - no. A bunch of foreigners from different places who larped as Russians, from the royal family to the nobility, even much of the poor nobility such as Dostoyevsky's family.
    , @AP
    So Bykov in essence was correct in his nice book ЖД - that in Russia there has been a longstanding struggle between Varyags and Jews, with natives being passive material.
  314. @Seraphim
    You don't sell your opinion, but in your opinion it is the right one, isn't it?
    Isn't that amusing that both 'liberal' and 'socialist' writers found out that Dostoevsky was as poor a writer (“a third-rate writer whose fame is incomprehensible” - Nabokov) as Solzhenitsyn. Reason? Because he created “the ultimate formula of egoism-Antichrist-Europe on one side and brotherhood-Christ-Russia on the other”).
    “How can a man write so badly, so unbelievably badly, and make you feel so deeply?”, mused Hemingway. Hemingway was an anti-fascist, of course.

    From what I read (about half of what he wrote) Nabokov is a third-rate writer in Russian and a fourth-fifth rate in English. In contrast, Dostoyevsky was a genius. Again, that is my opinion. Nobody has a monopoly on being right, myself included.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    I have read a few of Nabokov's books and could only read a few pages of some - but two books he wrote about the experience of being an immigrant (True Life of Sebastian Knight, Podvig), I found interesting, unusual, and would recommend them a lot, especially if you know any of the cities he writes about in these books.
  315. @Sean
    Brain drained Ukraine has sold weapons to Saudi Arabia recently. Ukrainian R&D coming up with anything much seems less likely than it being Ukraine--badged US tech. Ukraine sales to Israel is quite possibly a way to transfer US technology to Israel by the back door. Israel got all sorts of privileged access to the F35 technology.They were not allowed to get the F22 but you can bet their custom F35s were vehicles for technology transfer.

    https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-f35-sale-boosts-reciprocal-procurement-in-israel-1001266942

    Ukrainian R&D coming up with anything much seems less likely than it being Ukraine–badged US tech.

    No.

    USA doesn’t have this stuff:

    https://defence-blog.com/missiles/new-ukrainian-high-precision-rockets-system-completes-final-test.html

  316. @AP

    Shakespeare (and any of the English writers you listed) had foreign ancestors along many lines at a distance of 400 years.
     
    And among Russian aristocrats - most lines. This is the difference.

    It's why I sampled just the paternal lines of the most famous Russian aristocratic authors. Every one of them had foreign origin. But if you sample the paternal lines of English authors - most do not.

    The absolute majority of the Russian nobility was Russian.
     
    And yet, randomly looking just at paternal lines of most famous noble authors - every one had foreign origin. Is it just a wild coincidence?

    The existence of a foreign ancestor 400 years ago (in most cases mythological foreign ancestor), does not make a person a foreigner
     
    I wrote of foreign origin, with little local Russian descent. When, say, 60% of one's ancestors are of foreign origin it is noteworthy.

    That’s funny. In the Moscow princedom/Russian Tsardom massively migrated (or passed with their lands) lords of the Russian principalities on the territory of the medieval “Lithuania”. Among migrants-aristocrats were ethnic Lithuanians (or rather half and a quarter Lithuanians), but they were few. Polish aristocrats (ethnically Polish) in Moscow princedom/Russian Tsardom did not migrate.
     
    Poles came later. Wrubel had Polish origin.

    All these false “Western European” genealogies (with few exceptions) mask the origin from the local swineherds
     
    So when familytree DNA gave me Norway as likely origin, my legendary 12th century Varangian paternal descent was a fairytale?

    And Rurukid DNA project - all from Sweden except the Chernigov branch.

    Wrubel had Polish origin.

    I looked him up on Russian wiki now. Paternal grandfather – Pole. Mother’s father was from the old Russian noble Basargin family – Tatar origin, of course. Basargin’s wife was a Danish woman. Basargin’s mother – from a family from Finland, von Krabbe. Typical non-Russian origin of Russia’s pre-Soviet elites. The peasants whom Melanf hates (or at least sneers at) are the real Russians.

  317. @Seraphim
    Can't you understand that only 'Ukrainians' are the pure Russians.

    Only peasants are true Russians. So Lomonosov, of peasant origin, was a Russian (though a Finnic sort of Russian from the far North). As was Chekhov’s father (his mother was a Ukrainian). But elites – no. A bunch of foreigners from different places who larped as Russians, from the royal family to the nobility, even much of the poor nobility such as Dostoyevsky’s family.

    • Replies: @Adam
    Are you really incapable of understanding that after living in a country for several centuries and assimilating with the dominant ethnic group, you aren't a foreigner in any meaningful sense. My Norwegian ancestors had a surname indicating German descent. They were not German and I am not Norwegian.

    It's true that in various periods the Russian nobility had a large proportion of actual foreigners (i.e people who did not speak Russian natively and had a conscious identification with another ethnic group), but as usual you're exaggerating this fact to conform to your narrative as a Ukrainian nationalist.

    You're not Russian and have no right to determine who is and is not Russian. The idea that Dostoevsky was a non-Russian because he had a 14th century Tatar ancestor is one of the most astoundingly idiotic statements I've heard someone say on this forum. Rather than doubling down on your assertion that the only real Russians are some inbred pig farmers from Tver, why don't you consider whether what you're saying is actually coherent and not some throw away line to undermine Russian history, culture, and identity (90% of your presence on this forum).
  318. @Seraphim
    Can't you understand that only 'Ukrainians' are the pure Russians.

    So Bykov in essence was correct in his nice book ЖД – that in Russia there has been a longstanding struggle between Varyags and Jews, with natives being passive material.

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    Can you please provide a link to this book?
  319. It is 100% Ukrainian made and its development dates from the begining of the war with Russia OK. But what they sold to Israel was not the product of a former Soviet factory (as with the the ludicrous suggestion that a Ukrainian factory had sold ICBM engines to North Korea. Ukraine knows how to make rockets, but rockets are not radar.

    Ukraine is looking to purchase a small number of surface-to-air missile systems from the United States, possibly Patriots, amid a recent spike in tensions with separatists in the country’s eastern Donbas region, as well as their chief backer, Russia. The move also comes as the U.S. government is expanding arms deals with the government in Kiev, including the sale of Javelin anti-tank missiles, and has even recently bought a Ukrainian air defense radar for its own analysis and training use.

    Ukrainian radar is like .22LR versions for basic training, not a real weapon. Israel conducted joint air defence exercises with Russia and knows everything it needs to know about the latest Russian air defence systems . Did you not recall them destroying Syrian targets right under the nose of the Russians and tricking the Syrian’s Russian air defence system into shooting down a Russian plane?

    Israel had no objection to Russia delivering its most advanced air defence system to Iran because the delivery was delayed, while Russia taught the Israelis how to defeat it. The Iranians were incensed and threaten to sue Russia over the delivery being delayed for years. Weapons sales are highly political and diplomatic considerations are paramount. How did North Korean ICBM nuke tech advance so fast? The Chinese gave them it, because they need NK as a wedge against the US. It is a known fact that Pakistan got missile parts from China. Noerth Korean nuke know-how was given to an ally of China by another semidetatched ally of China.

    The US could buy better radar from Britain than anything they could get from Ukraine, this is a maybe not tech transfer as much as a sort of sweetheart deal in which Israel is also helping out.

  320. @AP
    Pushkin's non-African maternal ancestors were nobles of German and Scandinavian descent. The Pushkin family itself is supposedly of German origin, although they were in Russia since the 12th century.

    A very large % of Russia's pre-Communist political and cultural elite were Russian by culture but not by descent. "Foreigners" such as Rurikids, Baltic Germans, Russified Poles or Lithuanians LARPing as Russian Eastern Slavs. Bolsheviks slaughtered or drove them into exile, replacing one group of non-Russian elite with another. After the Revolution, Russia was ruled largely by Caucasians, Jews and Balts instead of by these families of Russified Scandinavians, Germans, Tatars, etc. (under Stalin Jews and Balts were mostly liquidated and replaced by Caucasians)

    The post-Stalin period is probably the first time in history when Russia was actually led overwhelmingly by ethnic Russians. Until then actual ethnic Russians were mostly peasants, village priests, minor nobles at most.

    In regards to your last paragraph here, weren’t a large percentage of Russia’s post-Cold War oligarchs Jews? I seem to recall Anatoly Karlin previously saying that, out of the seven big Russian oligarchs in the 1990s, six were Jews (and I’m considering descent through the father’s line to count for this since I am not a big fan of halakha).

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    I seem to recall Anatoly Karlin previously saying that, out of the seven big Russian oligarchs in the 1990s, six were Jews (and I’m considering descent through the father’s line to count for this since I am not a big fan of halakha).
     
    Known as the Semibankirschina.
  321. @AP

    In your opinion, Ivan Turgenev is not Russian in origin, because Ivan Turgenev (who lived in the 19th century) presumably had a Tatar ancestor (who lived in the 15th century, that is, 400 years before Ivan Turgenev).
     
    And he also had non-Russian origins on various other lines. Majority of Russian elite had non-Russian origins. Paternal ancestry of these people was for purposes of sampling.

    Among German, French, Polish etc. elites one can find foreigners here and there; among Russian elites one can find the occasional ethnic Russian:

    I already posted the survey of origins: very few Russians. Russians were peasants.

    Verndasky had a survey of 17th century Russian noble families. The exact origins of the families surveyed were: 229 of Western European (including German) origin, 223 of Polish and Lithuanian origin (this number included Ruthenian nobility), 156 of Tatar and other Oriental origin, 168 families belonged to the House of Rurik and 42 were of unspecified “Russian” origin.

     

    As I said, England had a lot of French-Normans among elites.

    I wonder if the anti-Semitic discrimination (Pale of Settlement, et cetera) that the German Romanovs introduced in Russia had anything to do with a fear that Jews are going to replace Germans as the dominant Russian elite if the Jews were treated as genuine equals. After all, Jews certainly had the potential for this.

    BTW, it’s interesting that Jews are over-represented in the elite of the U.S. right now. Their higher than average IQ probably explains a lot of this, but it’s still interesting.

  322. @AP
    So Bykov in essence was correct in his nice book ЖД - that in Russia there has been a longstanding struggle between Varyags and Jews, with natives being passive material.

    Can you please provide a link to this book?

    • Replies: @AP
    Here is the English translation. It isn't bad:

    https://www.amazon.com/Living-Souls-Dmitry-Bykov/dp/1846881269/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1546230846&sr=8-2&keywords=bykov

    Probably the best modern Russian writer is Vodolaskin. He is an Orthodox Christian, Seraphim would like his works.
  323. @AP
    Rurikids maintained a mostly Scandinavian bloodline until the 12th century. And then they mixed with Tatars.

    Romanovs started as Russians (they had rather humble origins) but soon married with Poles and Tatars. And from Catherine II they were Germans.

    But Russia's elite's foreign origins went far beyond only the royal family. After all, many European countries had a non-native royal family. But in Russian the entire elite was pretty much foreign origin. Verndasky had a survey of 17th century Russian noble families. The exact origins of the families surveyed were: 229 of Western European (including German) origin, 223 of Polish and Lithuanian origin (this number included Ruthenian nobility), 156 of Tatar and other Oriental origin, 168 families belonged to the House of Rurik and 42 were of unspecified "Russian" origin.
    After the 17th century the influx of Baltic Germans and Ukrainians made the elite even less Russian by origin.

    In Europe, only the English after the Norman conquest had an elite as foreign as was Russia's. Outside Europe, Manchurians over Han Chinese, or Mughal rulers of India come to mind.

    The minority Alawites are the elite in Syria nowadays, no?

    BTW, it’s interesting that, in spite of the fact that they weren’t the historical elite of Russia, Russian peasants still managed to provide a sufficiently powerful backbone for Russia to become a superpower (albeit at a way too high cost in lives). Of course, without Bolshevism, Russia would have very likely become a much mightier political and economic force.

  324. Russia is European. Most ordinary Russians think so. Given the Chinese alternative there is no alternative.

    • Replies: @Adam
    Russians are genetically, linguistically, and culturally European (though they differ from the rest of Europe somewhat in that last sense), however their physical remoteness and geopolitical position has precluded any real identity as Europeans. Most Russians regard themselves simply as Russians, or perhaps Slavs, while Europeans have always regarded Russians as partially or mostly an Asiatic people.
  325. @AP
    Only peasants are true Russians. So Lomonosov, of peasant origin, was a Russian (though a Finnic sort of Russian from the far North). As was Chekhov's father (his mother was a Ukrainian). But elites - no. A bunch of foreigners from different places who larped as Russians, from the royal family to the nobility, even much of the poor nobility such as Dostoyevsky's family.

    Are you really incapable of understanding that after living in a country for several centuries and assimilating with the dominant ethnic group, you aren’t a foreigner in any meaningful sense. My Norwegian ancestors had a surname indicating German descent. They were not German and I am not Norwegian.

    It’s true that in various periods the Russian nobility had a large proportion of actual foreigners (i.e people who did not speak Russian natively and had a conscious identification with another ethnic group), but as usual you’re exaggerating this fact to conform to your narrative as a Ukrainian nationalist.

    You’re not Russian and have no right to determine who is and is not Russian. The idea that Dostoevsky was a non-Russian because he had a 14th century Tatar ancestor is one of the most astoundingly idiotic statements I’ve heard someone say on this forum. Rather than doubling down on your assertion that the only real Russians are some inbred pig farmers from Tver, why don’t you consider whether what you’re saying is actually coherent and not some throw away line to undermine Russian history, culture, and identity (90% of your presence on this forum).

    • Replies: @AP

    Are you really incapable of understanding that after living in a country for several centuries and assimilating with the dominant ethnic group, you aren’t a foreigner in any meaningful sense
     
    Ah, so you are incapable of actually reading what I wrote in my posts on the subject.

    Anon from TN can show you the way. Russia is a state of mind.

    The idea that Dostoevsky was a non-Russian because he had a 14th century Tatar ancestor is one of the most astoundingly idiotic statements I’ve heard someone say on this forum.
     
    It wasn't just some lone Tatar from the 14th century. Most of his ancestors were of non-Russian origin. They were almost all Lithuanian, Belarussian, Ukrainian, Polish. As I wrote, most of the Russian elites were not of Russian ethnic origin. The peasants were real Russians. This makes Russia quite different from Germany, France, Poland, etc.

    My Norwegian ancestors had a surname indicating German descent. They were not German and I am not Norwegian.
     
    You are not. You are, however, a fool.

    why don’t you consider whether what you’re saying is actually coherent and not some throw away line to undermine Russian history, culture, and identity (90% of your presence on this forum).
     
    I do none of these things. I do insult Sovoks. If you equate Russians with Sovoks than you are the one who insults Russia.

    I was teasing melanf, who takes pride in the deaths of millions of Russian peasants at the hands of the Bolsheviks. He thinks they deserved it. Very telling that you do not have a problem with that. Melanf hates real Russians.
  326. @melanf

    Yes some look all the way like Kazakhs
     
    The Volga Tatars look more southern than "Asian". Here are two Olympic Champions - Rita Mamun (half-Indian ) and Alina Zagitova (Tatar). They look like sisters.
    https://rusbiathlon.ru/foto/230/115126.jpg

    But also exist atypical "Nordic" татары
    https://i080.radikal.ru/1007/de/fae079e496a0.jpg

    https://s018.radikal.ru/i514/1202/90/737123ca193f.jpg

    I cannot reliably distinguish a Tatar from a Russian. Some of my Russian freinds (Rodnoveri) claim there is no difference. To them Tatars are Russians who did not Christianize. But then they believe that Russians are not Slavs but the former inhabitants of Great Tataria.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    Who can take the Rodnoveri clowns seriously? But, in a way they recognize what they really are: Khazars!
    'Slavic Native Faith' closely resembles to what Count Pyotr Valuyev called (in 1876) 'Slavophile onanism'.
  327. @Thorfinnsson
    I see no evidence that the German car industry is being sacrificed, though obviously "dieselgate" should've been swept under the rug. Or perhaps the responsible executives should've been hailed as heroes.

    I understand there are also homo-sexuals in Germany who wish to eliminate the famed unlimited speed on the Autobahn, but that won't kill the car industry.

    The German car industry is now gearing up to annihilate Tesla, but that's a different story.

    Phasing out black coal mining in Germany has been planned for decades, and for the same reason as in Great Britain--it's uneconomic.

    What shows that Germany isn't serious about climate change is shutting down nuclear power, the best form of of clean power. This led to a sharp increase in coal consumption, and perversely brown coal consumption which is far dirtier. And Germany is set to keep mining coal until 2040.

    And in any case ending coal mining is irrelevant from a climate perspective if it is simply substituted with imported coal. Britain has been importing Australian coal ever since Thatcher crushed the miners (though a lot of the coal fleet has since been replaced by gas).

    Actually, in the UK we are now only using coal in the coldest months of winter. The final decline was large and fast. I think there are two big coal burners left. One, Drax, is however the biggest power station in the UK. It mixes the coal with biofuel to evade regulation. The other is Aberthaw in South Wales, also one of the biggest. It is closing this year. I helped to build it as an apprentice almost 50 years ago.

  328. @Philip Owen
    Russia is European. Most ordinary Russians think so. Given the Chinese alternative there is no alternative.

    Russians are genetically, linguistically, and culturally European (though they differ from the rest of Europe somewhat in that last sense), however their physical remoteness and geopolitical position has precluded any real identity as Europeans. Most Russians regard themselves simply as Russians, or perhaps Slavs, while Europeans have always regarded Russians as partially or mostly an Asiatic people.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    When would 'Europeans' realize that they are NOT the center of the world? But the periphery of a world where Russians occupy a central position? The periphery of 'Eur-Asia'.
    , @Philip Owen
    Fairly early genetic studies (2008?) by Oxford University concluded that Poles, Ukrainians and South Volga Russians were indistinguishable although there was a female Germanic cluster in Ukraine. North West Russians - not just Novgorod but North Muscovy too, had a Finnish component as well as the Slavic one. Of course, there are Mordovins and so on across Russia. The Volga samples were from Saratov which actually has rather a mixed ethnic history, Ukrainians native to the area, Mordavian Finns, Tatars and once there were Germans. I suppose most Russian settlers arrived from Muscovy from the time of Peter.
    , @AP

    Russians are genetically, linguistically, and culturally European (though they differ from the rest of Europe somewhat in that last sense), however their physical remoteness and geopolitical position has precluded any real identity as Europeans.
     
    Roughly analogous to Spaniards.

    Most Russians regard themselves simply as Russians, or perhaps Slavs
     
    Correct.

    while Europeans have always regarded Russians as partially or mostly an Asiatic people.
     
    Europeans traditionally regard anyone to the west of themselves as partially Asiatic. Germans - Huns. Germans say Europe ends at the Elbe. Poles say they are Europe's Eastern stronghold. Ukrainians say Russians are Tatars-Mongols. Russians generally embrace their mixed nature, seeing it as positive.
  329. @Adam
    Russians are genetically, linguistically, and culturally European (though they differ from the rest of Europe somewhat in that last sense), however their physical remoteness and geopolitical position has precluded any real identity as Europeans. Most Russians regard themselves simply as Russians, or perhaps Slavs, while Europeans have always regarded Russians as partially or mostly an Asiatic people.

    When would ‘Europeans’ realize that they are NOT the center of the world? But the periphery of a world where Russians occupy a central position? The periphery of ‘Eur-Asia’.

  330. @melanf

    Pure Russians (although pure nationalities exist only in the minds of demented rabid nationalists) look very much like Northern Germans: blue eyes, blond hair, relatively small nose, widish face.
     
    There are (since the early middle ages) two different types of "pure" Russians: Northern Russians and Southern Russians. They have a common language and culture, but different origins. Here are anecdotal illustration of the differences of the two types (Arkhangelsk and Moscow):

    https://a.radikal.ru/a25/1812/61/209e5f36bc98.jpg

    https://a.radikal.ru/a34/1812/61/55a30e8e480a.jpg

    As you can see the Northern Russians are very similar in appearance to the Scandinavians (both the German-speaking and Finnish-speaking). Southern Russians are indistinguishable from Рoles and Slovaks. "Pure" Northern Russians live in the deserted North and their number is small, but it is they who conquered Siberia in the 16th-17th centuries, and therefore the Russian population of the Urals, Siberia and the Far East has noticeable "Northern" features.

    But in general, the population in Russia has vary diverse phenotypes

     

    As far as I know the genetic differences within the Russian ethnic group are more significant than in other indigenous ethnic groups in Europe.

    What I notice in Russia is a bimodality in height. There is a distinct group of well above average people and then average people with little in between. As I am in between by Russian standards (taller than average but I don’t match the giants – I am the same height as the females – 177) perhaps I am more sensitive to it.

  331. @songbird
    I wonder if any linguist has ever tried to track tell-tale political phrases back to 500 years ago or more. There's something so incredibly eerie about "the end of history" and its many variants like "the right side of history", "the moral arc of the universe." It is like DNA speaking and having a grammar.

    I feel that Aztecs must have said it when they were building pyramids of hearts or heads.

    Read the Book of Revalations. Then join Cromwell’s New Model Army.

    • Replies: @songbird
    MLK did use the phrase, and we all know he was a plagiarist.
  332. @Mr. XYZ
    In regards to your last paragraph here, weren't a large percentage of Russia's post-Cold War oligarchs Jews? I seem to recall Anatoly Karlin previously saying that, out of the seven big Russian oligarchs in the 1990s, six were Jews (and I'm considering descent through the father's line to count for this since I am not a big fan of halakha).

    I seem to recall Anatoly Karlin previously saying that, out of the seven big Russian oligarchs in the 1990s, six were Jews (and I’m considering descent through the father’s line to count for this since I am not a big fan of halakha).

    Known as the Semibankirschina.

  333. @Adam
    Russians are genetically, linguistically, and culturally European (though they differ from the rest of Europe somewhat in that last sense), however their physical remoteness and geopolitical position has precluded any real identity as Europeans. Most Russians regard themselves simply as Russians, or perhaps Slavs, while Europeans have always regarded Russians as partially or mostly an Asiatic people.

    Fairly early genetic studies (2008?) by Oxford University concluded that Poles, Ukrainians and South Volga Russians were indistinguishable although there was a female Germanic cluster in Ukraine. North West Russians – not just Novgorod but North Muscovy too, had a Finnish component as well as the Slavic one. Of course, there are Mordovins and so on across Russia. The Volga samples were from Saratov which actually has rather a mixed ethnic history, Ukrainians native to the area, Mordavian Finns, Tatars and once there were Germans. I suppose most Russian settlers arrived from Muscovy from the time of Peter.

  334. @Seraphim
    The conquest of Kazan (1552) was shortly followed by the conquest of the Khanate of Sibir (capital Tyumen - roughly same latitude as Kazan, just a bit North). Already in 1555 the Khan Yadegar consented to pay tribute in fur to Moscow.
    All 'private' expeditions were carried on at the behest of the state. The principal role was played by the Stroganov family of highly successful Russian merchants, industrialists, landowners, and statesmen. They financed the Russian conquest of Siberia and Prince Pozharsky's reconquest of Moscow from the Poles. They recruited and financed Yermak.

    A sort of mini East India Company or perhaps Hudson Bay Company is a closer analogy, although the HBC traded rather than exacted tribute. It tends to be less expensive in the end.

  335. @Dmitry
    AnonFromTN - it sounds like you meet the same people.

    I met people from Kazakhstan also with "German" nationality (allowing German passport).

    Lol I was wondering if maybe there is some factory in Kazakhstan that falsifies your certificates with German nationality so you can get a German passport, and whether I can contact this place.

    The Germans in Kazakhstan came from Saratov. There were divisions between Catholics and Protestants.

  336. @Philip Owen
    I cannot reliably distinguish a Tatar from a Russian. Some of my Russian freinds (Rodnoveri) claim there is no difference. To them Tatars are Russians who did not Christianize. But then they believe that Russians are not Slavs but the former inhabitants of Great Tataria.

    Who can take the Rodnoveri clowns seriously? But, in a way they recognize what they really are: Khazars!
    ‘Slavic Native Faith’ closely resembles to what Count Pyotr Valuyev called (in 1876) ‘Slavophile onanism’.

  337. @German_reader

    The climate has been warmer before in historical times
     
    When? I know average temperatures were higher in Europe during the high middle ages, but my understanding is that such climate change was localized to specific regions during historical times, whereas the present change is global, and also more drastic than anything known from history.

    The holiday cottage my parents used in the 1950’s was built into a shingle bank (storm beach) next to the sea. It had been there since at least 1850. The biggest waves didn’t quite break over the bank and flood the cottage, except for once storm in 1952. They did again in 2015. Two storms in 60 years does not make for serious sea level rise. Nearby, the rivers have silted up, cutting medieval castles off from the sea faster than any proposed sea level rise. Wasn’t Vanuatu supposed to be in trouble by now.

    In Medieval times in Wales, what are now mountain tops turned into desert by rain were productive farms.

    The point about sea level is that in consolidates global warning concerns into one measure.

  338. @Thorfinnsson
    Photovoltaic cells are semiconductors and are thus subject to the same diminishing returns we're now observing in integrated circuits.

    They're also geographically limited, and even if room temperature superconductors are invented (dubious) transmission will still cost money (capex, depreciation).

    There's thus a ceiling on solar marketshare. We may even be past the rational ceiling in many markets owing to the Green religion. There is no rational reason to put solar panels in Germany for instance, yet it is one of the world's largest solar producers. Japan, another place where solar panels have no place and ought to be forbidden by law, is now one of the fastest growing markets. This is driven by atomophobia.

    Solar power being intermittent, it must also be paired with other forms of energy generation (generally natural gas) and/or storage (hydro most efficient).

    Nuclear fusion has been 10 years away now for the past 50 years.

    Oil demand will plausibly peak by mid-century or perhaps earlier (Royal Dutch Shell says 2026 for instance), but barring a relaxation in the worldwide plague of hysterical atomophobia natural gas demand is likely to grow for many years to come.

    Populations in developed countries may start falling, or the countries themselves may start physically deteriorating owing to race replacement by biologically inferior invaders. In that event energy demand could actually fall, rather than simply peaking as has historically been the case in Europe and Japan.

    Venezuela looks like Venezuela because it's governed by orangutans. Russia without its energy exports would be poorer and have to further devalue the Rouble, but would actually be fine. If Saudi Arabia persists on its current course however it is going bankrupt and potentially facing civil war.

    As for the climate change issue, well, I have no idea how it will shake out. Reversing "previous damage" would appear to require not simply a gigantic reduction in emissions, but also sequestration. Presumably the most effective way to do that would be a worldwide change in agricultural practices to encourage the buildup of top soil.

    Agree

    Another factor is that solar panels must be near the load to amke sense. The cost of stepping up the voltage to distribution levels is just about doable. Stepping up to transmission voltages is not an option.

  339. @songbird
    The UK draws on the Commonwealth for its troops, does it not? There was a news story a few days ago, about a Ghanaian suing them for damage he supposedly suffered from the cold. Apparently, that is what many Africans do in the UK, which I would not rate as a particularly cold country.

    I don't know if it is just simple fraud, or it betokens good news for the retaking of Europe. Though I do think there are HBD differences regarding the cold. I'm not sure the MENA folks are as susceptible as blacks.

    I must confess that I'm ignorant as to how the recruitment process works. Anyone know if they gain citizenship? Or go awol? The idea of recruiting black troops out of Africa for one's army has got to be among one of the most foolish and PC things ever done. Teddy Roosevelt rated blacks as very cowardly, and poor in battle, though, I believe, he did speak with a forked tongue and praised them in certain quarters.

    The UK draws on the Commonwealth for its troops, does it not?

    Germany is mulling allowing EU citizens to join the Bundeswehr, which would probably accelerate the draining of the eastern periphery, as salaries are higher.

    http://www.bvoltaire.fr/demain-les-alsaciens-mosellans-pourraient-a-nouveau-integrer-larmee-allemande/

    • Replies: @songbird
    About ten years ago, the US Army ran a recruiting campaign in Spanish. "Yo soy el army." I was dumbfounded by it. I had had my fears before, but I think that was when I realized the US is probably fucked. Though, I guess it is better than Arabic, or one of those clicking languages of Africa.

    The desire to fill recruitment quotas at whatever cost has a strange similarity to the importation of bodies which underpins the faulty economic reasoning of globalism.

    They probably wish Turkey was part of the EU. I've heard that they are discussing bringing back the draft this time for women too. What idiots - I'm sure a unisex draft will do wonders for Germany's TFR.
  340. @Hyperborean

    The UK draws on the Commonwealth for its troops, does it not?
     
    Germany is mulling allowing EU citizens to join the Bundeswehr, which would probably accelerate the draining of the eastern periphery, as salaries are higher.

    http://www.bvoltaire.fr/demain-les-alsaciens-mosellans-pourraient-a-nouveau-integrer-larmee-allemande/

    About ten years ago, the US Army ran a recruiting campaign in Spanish. “Yo soy el army.” I was dumbfounded by it. I had had my fears before, but I think that was when I realized the US is probably fucked. Though, I guess it is better than Arabic, or one of those clicking languages of Africa.

    The desire to fill recruitment quotas at whatever cost has a strange similarity to the importation of bodies which underpins the faulty economic reasoning of globalism.

    They probably wish Turkey was part of the EU. I’ve heard that they are discussing bringing back the draft this time for women too. What idiots – I’m sure a unisex draft will do wonders for Germany’s TFR.

    • Replies: @Mitleser

    They probably wish Turkey was part of the EU.
     
    Doubt it.
    It means power-sharing with Ankara and money-sharing with poorer Turkey which they do not want.
    Same reason why would reject Russia.
    Current customs union deal is optimal for Brüssel.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/GumrukBirligiCommemorative.jpg
  341. @Mr. XYZ
    Can you please provide a link to this book?

    Here is the English translation. It isn’t bad:

    Probably the best modern Russian writer is Vodolaskin. He is an Orthodox Christian, Seraphim would like his works.

  342. @Adam
    Are you really incapable of understanding that after living in a country for several centuries and assimilating with the dominant ethnic group, you aren't a foreigner in any meaningful sense. My Norwegian ancestors had a surname indicating German descent. They were not German and I am not Norwegian.

    It's true that in various periods the Russian nobility had a large proportion of actual foreigners (i.e people who did not speak Russian natively and had a conscious identification with another ethnic group), but as usual you're exaggerating this fact to conform to your narrative as a Ukrainian nationalist.

    You're not Russian and have no right to determine who is and is not Russian. The idea that Dostoevsky was a non-Russian because he had a 14th century Tatar ancestor is one of the most astoundingly idiotic statements I've heard someone say on this forum. Rather than doubling down on your assertion that the only real Russians are some inbred pig farmers from Tver, why don't you consider whether what you're saying is actually coherent and not some throw away line to undermine Russian history, culture, and identity (90% of your presence on this forum).

    Are you really incapable of understanding that after living in a country for several centuries and assimilating with the dominant ethnic group, you aren’t a foreigner in any meaningful sense

    Ah, so you are incapable of actually reading what I wrote in my posts on the subject.

    Anon from TN can show you the way. Russia is a state of mind.

    The idea that Dostoevsky was a non-Russian because he had a 14th century Tatar ancestor is one of the most astoundingly idiotic statements I’ve heard someone say on this forum.

    It wasn’t just some lone Tatar from the 14th century. Most of his ancestors were of non-Russian origin. They were almost all Lithuanian, Belarussian, Ukrainian, Polish. As I wrote, most of the Russian elites were not of Russian ethnic origin. The peasants were real Russians. This makes Russia quite different from Germany, France, Poland, etc.

    My Norwegian ancestors had a surname indicating German descent. They were not German and I am not Norwegian.

    You are not. You are, however, a fool.

    why don’t you consider whether what you’re saying is actually coherent and not some throw away line to undermine Russian history, culture, and identity (90% of your presence on this forum).

    I do none of these things. I do insult Sovoks. If you equate Russians with Sovoks than you are the one who insults Russia.

    I was teasing melanf, who takes pride in the deaths of millions of Russian peasants at the hands of the Bolsheviks. He thinks they deserved it. Very telling that you do not have a problem with that. Melanf hates real Russians.

    • Replies: @Adam
    >Ah, so you are incapable of actually reading what I wrote in my posts on the subject.

    I read enough. Almost all of the proof you have provided that Russian writers are non-Russian is centuries old foreign ancestry, save Gogol who is obviously not an ethnic Great Russian. You also stated explicitly "The time when their ancestors came to Russia is irrelevant to this point. Only peasants were actual ethnic Russians for the most part.".

    You clearly have a fundamental belief that having any foreign ancestry of any sort, or at having a foreign progenitor, makes you forever a foreigner no matter how assimilated you and your immediate ancestors are.

    >Anon from TN can show you the way. Russia is a state of mind.

    Being German is a state of mind too. What did Prussians, Bavarians, and Low German speakers have in common other than the idea of Germany? Hell, East Germans are genetically Slavic (which of course makes them Wends larping as German). Anyway, I'll have no part in the brotherhood of nations garbage that he peddles and I know you don't believe in it either.

    >It wasn’t just some lone Tatar from the 14th century. Most of his ancestors were of non-Russian origin. They were almost all Lithuanian, Belarussian, Ukrainian, Polish. As I wrote, most of the Russian elites were not of Russian ethnic origin. The peasants were real Russians. This makes Russia quite different from Germany, France, Poland, etc.

    I underestimated the proportion of foreign ancestry Dostoevsky had, though the point remains. Unless you can scrounge up evidence that his immediate ancestors were non-Russian, we're talking centuries old foreign ancestry.

    The major noble families were disproportionally non-Russian, and for a time foreigners dominated the Russian state. A majority of the elite overall however was Russian.

    Noble families were not bound by nationalism. Intermarriage between nobles of different ethnic groups was and is extremely common. Spain was ruled by German Hasburgs for centuries. It continues to be ruled by the French house of Bourbon. Britain is ruled by a German house. Sweden is ruled by a French house. Denmark is ruled by a German house, as is Norway. Many nobles in Poland were of Lithuanian, Rus, or Tatar origin. This is the absolute norm of European royal politics. You would, however, be an imbecile to call Queen Elizabeth a German.

    >I do none of these things. I do insult Sovoks. If you equate Russians with Sovoks than you are the one who insults Russia.

    I fail to understand where you pulled that one from. The idea that Russia is a rootless, deracinated marketplace bound together by common values and 'actual Russians' have never achieved anything seems a Sovok idea to me.

    You lack the shrillness of a typical Ukrainian nationalist, but you still propagate the same ideas. You're clearly anti-Russian, and undermine the cultural, historical, and ethnic legitimacy of Russians all the time. Probably you do this as an amusing past time and a way to pretend to not be an American, but I'll just take your comments at face value.

    As for melanf's idiotic statements about Russian peasants, it has no relevance. He has a realistic view of the ethnic origins of Russians, unlike yourself.
    , @Mikhail

    Russia is a state of mind.
     
    As is the US, Germany, Ukraine and a host of other, if not most, or perhaps arguably all countries.
    , @Rattus Norwegius
    "It wasn’t just some lone Tatar from the 14th century. Most of his ancestors were of non-Russian origin. They were almost all Lithuanian, Belarussian, Ukrainian, Polish. As I wrote, most of the Russian elites were not of Russian ethnic origin. The peasants were real Russians. This makes Russia quite different from Germany, France, Poland, etc."
    Is this the case for the Russian elite today? What about Ukraine's elite, are they too of mostly foreign descent both historically aswell as presently?
  343. @Adam
    Russians are genetically, linguistically, and culturally European (though they differ from the rest of Europe somewhat in that last sense), however their physical remoteness and geopolitical position has precluded any real identity as Europeans. Most Russians regard themselves simply as Russians, or perhaps Slavs, while Europeans have always regarded Russians as partially or mostly an Asiatic people.

    Russians are genetically, linguistically, and culturally European (though they differ from the rest of Europe somewhat in that last sense), however their physical remoteness and geopolitical position has precluded any real identity as Europeans.

    Roughly analogous to Spaniards.

    Most Russians regard themselves simply as Russians, or perhaps Slavs

    Correct.

    while Europeans have always regarded Russians as partially or mostly an Asiatic people.

    Europeans traditionally regard anyone to the west of themselves as partially Asiatic. Germans – Huns. Germans say Europe ends at the Elbe. Poles say they are Europe’s Eastern stronghold. Ukrainians say Russians are Tatars-Mongols. Russians generally embrace their mixed nature, seeing it as positive.

    • Replies: @German_reader

    Germans say Europe ends at the Elbe.
     
    Konrad Adenauer said that, and that was due to his anti-Prussian Rhineland Catholicism, that is intra-German conflicts. It wasn't a consensus view back then and it isn't now.
    There's of course a long tradition of highly negative (and during the Nazi era extremely racist) German perceptions of Eastern Europe and Russia, though imo these weren't the only strains (even among the Nazis there were somewhat different views how to view and treat Russians, though the views of Hitler and Himmler remained dominant).
  344. @AP

    Are you really incapable of understanding that after living in a country for several centuries and assimilating with the dominant ethnic group, you aren’t a foreigner in any meaningful sense
     
    Ah, so you are incapable of actually reading what I wrote in my posts on the subject.

    Anon from TN can show you the way. Russia is a state of mind.

    The idea that Dostoevsky was a non-Russian because he had a 14th century Tatar ancestor is one of the most astoundingly idiotic statements I’ve heard someone say on this forum.
     
    It wasn't just some lone Tatar from the 14th century. Most of his ancestors were of non-Russian origin. They were almost all Lithuanian, Belarussian, Ukrainian, Polish. As I wrote, most of the Russian elites were not of Russian ethnic origin. The peasants were real Russians. This makes Russia quite different from Germany, France, Poland, etc.

    My Norwegian ancestors had a surname indicating German descent. They were not German and I am not Norwegian.
     
    You are not. You are, however, a fool.

    why don’t you consider whether what you’re saying is actually coherent and not some throw away line to undermine Russian history, culture, and identity (90% of your presence on this forum).
     
    I do none of these things. I do insult Sovoks. If you equate Russians with Sovoks than you are the one who insults Russia.

    I was teasing melanf, who takes pride in the deaths of millions of Russian peasants at the hands of the Bolsheviks. He thinks they deserved it. Very telling that you do not have a problem with that. Melanf hates real Russians.

    >Ah, so you are incapable of actually reading what I wrote in my posts on the subject.

    I read enough. Almost all of the proof you have provided that Russian writers are non-Russian is centuries old foreign ancestry, save Gogol who is obviously not an ethnic Great Russian. You also stated explicitly “The time when their ancestors came to Russia is irrelevant to this point. Only peasants were actual ethnic Russians for the most part.”.

    You clearly have a fundamental belief that having any foreign ancestry of any sort, or at having a foreign progenitor, makes you forever a foreigner no matter how assimilated you and your immediate ancestors are.

    >Anon from TN can show you the way. Russia is a state of mind.

    Being German is a state of mind too. What did Prussians, Bavarians, and Low German speakers have in common other than the idea of Germany? Hell, East Germans are genetically Slavic (which of course makes them Wends larping as German). Anyway, I’ll have no part in the brotherhood of nations garbage that he peddles and I know you don’t believe in it either.

    >It wasn’t just some lone Tatar from the 14th century. Most of his ancestors were of non-Russian origin. They were almost all Lithuanian, Belarussian, Ukrainian, Polish. As I wrote, most of the Russian elites were not of Russian ethnic origin. The peasants were real Russians. This makes Russia quite different from Germany, France, Poland, etc.

    I underestimated the proportion of foreign ancestry Dostoevsky had, though the point remains. Unless you can scrounge up evidence that his immediate ancestors were non-Russian, we’re talking centuries old foreign ancestry.

    The major noble families were disproportionally non-Russian, and for a time foreigners dominated the Russian state. A majority of the elite overall however was Russian.

    Noble families were not bound by nationalism. Intermarriage between nobles of different ethnic groups was and is extremely common. Spain was ruled by German Hasburgs for centuries. It continues to be ruled by the French house of Bourbon. Britain is ruled by a German house. Sweden is ruled by a French house. Denmark is ruled by a German house, as is Norway. Many nobles in Poland were of Lithuanian, Rus, or Tatar origin. This is the absolute norm of European royal politics. You would, however, be an imbecile to call Queen Elizabeth a German.

    >I do none of these things. I do insult Sovoks. If you equate Russians with Sovoks than you are the one who insults Russia.

    I fail to understand where you pulled that one from. The idea that Russia is a rootless, deracinated marketplace bound together by common values and ‘actual Russians’ have never achieved anything seems a Sovok idea to me.

    You lack the shrillness of a typical Ukrainian nationalist, but you still propagate the same ideas. You’re clearly anti-Russian, and undermine the cultural, historical, and ethnic legitimacy of Russians all the time. Probably you do this as an amusing past time and a way to pretend to not be an American, but I’ll just take your comments at face value.

    As for melanf’s idiotic statements about Russian peasants, it has no relevance. He has a realistic view of the ethnic origins of Russians, unlike yourself.

    • Replies: @Mikhail

    You lack the shrillness of a typical Ukrainian nationalist, but you still propagate the same ideas.
     
    Sugar coated svidos are the better propaganda option, while not being able to substantively prove some of their talking points.
    , @Mitleser

    Being German is a state of mind too. What did Prussians, Bavarians, and Low German speakers have in common other than the idea of Germany
     
    Correct.
    Historically, Germany is primarily a Kulturnation, though in modern times its identity was more defined by economics.
    , @AP

    You clearly have a fundamental belief that having any foreign ancestry of any sort, or at having a foreign progenitor, makes you forever a foreigner no matter how assimilated you and your immediate ancestors are.
     
    I have clearly pointed out that Russian elites had mostly foreign ancestry, not merely "any foreign ancestry of any sort". Had your reading comprehension not failed you, you would have understood that. Indeed, this is the difference between a Shakespeare who had a few French ancestors here and there, and a Wrubel, who was mostly Polish, Danish, Tatar, Finnish-German.

    That those elite Russians' foreign ancestors often came to Russia centuries ago does not change that fact. It was a stratum of non-natives, with new ones added over the generations.

    The major noble families were disproportionally non-Russian, and for a time foreigners dominated the Russian state. A majority of the elite overall however was Russian.
     
    They were Russified non-Russians in the majority. And this is interesting and makes Russian elites very different form those of most European countries. Prussian Junkers may have had some Polish ancestors here or there, but they were not of primarily non-German descent. Likewise with French,
    Bavarian, etc. elites. It's an interesting phenomenon.

    And in Russia this was true not only of the ruling family (indeed this is common) but even amongst regular nobles such as Dostoyevsky.

    >I do none of these things. I do insult Sovoks. If you equate Russians with Sovoks than you are the one who insults Russia.

    I fail to understand where you pulled that one from
     
    The only time I have said anything negative about Russians is when in connection to the Soviet legacy, which has done things such as produce a high abortion rate among them.

    The idea that Russia is a rootless, deracinated marketplace bound together by common values and ‘actual Russians’ have never achieved anything
     
    On the contrary, the fact that Russian culture has managed to draw in and assimilate many elites of foreign backgrounds is a tribute to its beauty. Dostoyevsky, though not of hardly any actual Russian descent, was perhaps the greatest novelist ever, and a complete patriot of the Russian project, a project fascinatingly largely driven over the centuries by people, such as Dostoyevsky, not of Russian descent. Even the Orthodoxy forced upon the Slavic people of Russia and Ukraine was a project of Rurikid Swedes.

    You lack the shrillness of a typical Ukrainian nationalist, but you still propagate the same ideas.
     
    Ukrainian nationalists believe their nation is the continuation of Kieven Rus, deemphasize their nation's Polish heritage, love Bandera the mass-murderer and Khmelytsky who has much in common in him, think Russians are dirty and dumb savages who have contributed little to the world. I propagate none of those things.
  345. @AP

    Are you really incapable of understanding that after living in a country for several centuries and assimilating with the dominant ethnic group, you aren’t a foreigner in any meaningful sense
     
    Ah, so you are incapable of actually reading what I wrote in my posts on the subject.

    Anon from TN can show you the way. Russia is a state of mind.

    The idea that Dostoevsky was a non-Russian because he had a 14th century Tatar ancestor is one of the most astoundingly idiotic statements I’ve heard someone say on this forum.
     
    It wasn't just some lone Tatar from the 14th century. Most of his ancestors were of non-Russian origin. They were almost all Lithuanian, Belarussian, Ukrainian, Polish. As I wrote, most of the Russian elites were not of Russian ethnic origin. The peasants were real Russians. This makes Russia quite different from Germany, France, Poland, etc.

    My Norwegian ancestors had a surname indicating German descent. They were not German and I am not Norwegian.
     
    You are not. You are, however, a fool.

    why don’t you consider whether what you’re saying is actually coherent and not some throw away line to undermine Russian history, culture, and identity (90% of your presence on this forum).
     
    I do none of these things. I do insult Sovoks. If you equate Russians with Sovoks than you are the one who insults Russia.

    I was teasing melanf, who takes pride in the deaths of millions of Russian peasants at the hands of the Bolsheviks. He thinks they deserved it. Very telling that you do not have a problem with that. Melanf hates real Russians.

    Russia is a state of mind.

    As is the US, Germany, Ukraine and a host of other, if not most, or perhaps arguably all countries.

  346. @Adam
    >Ah, so you are incapable of actually reading what I wrote in my posts on the subject.

    I read enough. Almost all of the proof you have provided that Russian writers are non-Russian is centuries old foreign ancestry, save Gogol who is obviously not an ethnic Great Russian. You also stated explicitly "The time when their ancestors came to Russia is irrelevant to this point. Only peasants were actual ethnic Russians for the most part.".

    You clearly have a fundamental belief that having any foreign ancestry of any sort, or at having a foreign progenitor, makes you forever a foreigner no matter how assimilated you and your immediate ancestors are.

    >Anon from TN can show you the way. Russia is a state of mind.

    Being German is a state of mind too. What did Prussians, Bavarians, and Low German speakers have in common other than the idea of Germany? Hell, East Germans are genetically Slavic (which of course makes them Wends larping as German). Anyway, I'll have no part in the brotherhood of nations garbage that he peddles and I know you don't believe in it either.

    >It wasn’t just some lone Tatar from the 14th century. Most of his ancestors were of non-Russian origin. They were almost all Lithuanian, Belarussian, Ukrainian, Polish. As I wrote, most of the Russian elites were not of Russian ethnic origin. The peasants were real Russians. This makes Russia quite different from Germany, France, Poland, etc.

    I underestimated the proportion of foreign ancestry Dostoevsky had, though the point remains. Unless you can scrounge up evidence that his immediate ancestors were non-Russian, we're talking centuries old foreign ancestry.

    The major noble families were disproportionally non-Russian, and for a time foreigners dominated the Russian state. A majority of the elite overall however was Russian.

    Noble families were not bound by nationalism. Intermarriage between nobles of different ethnic groups was and is extremely common. Spain was ruled by German Hasburgs for centuries. It continues to be ruled by the French house of Bourbon. Britain is ruled by a German house. Sweden is ruled by a French house. Denmark is ruled by a German house, as is Norway. Many nobles in Poland were of Lithuanian, Rus, or Tatar origin. This is the absolute norm of European royal politics. You would, however, be an imbecile to call Queen Elizabeth a German.

    >I do none of these things. I do insult Sovoks. If you equate Russians with Sovoks than you are the one who insults Russia.

    I fail to understand where you pulled that one from. The idea that Russia is a rootless, deracinated marketplace bound together by common values and 'actual Russians' have never achieved anything seems a Sovok idea to me.

    You lack the shrillness of a typical Ukrainian nationalist, but you still propagate the same ideas. You're clearly anti-Russian, and undermine the cultural, historical, and ethnic legitimacy of Russians all the time. Probably you do this as an amusing past time and a way to pretend to not be an American, but I'll just take your comments at face value.

    As for melanf's idiotic statements about Russian peasants, it has no relevance. He has a realistic view of the ethnic origins of Russians, unlike yourself.

    You lack the shrillness of a typical Ukrainian nationalist, but you still propagate the same ideas.

    Sugar coated svidos are the better propaganda option, while not being able to substantively prove some of their talking points.

  347. S0vok holiday in Israel:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/30/world/middleeast/israel-novy-god-ashdod.html?action=click&module=News&pgtype=Homepage

    White Russians (at least a good number of them) do new year’s on the old calendar.

  348. @DFH
    Those photos really make you notice the distinctive Slavic nose type

    Those photos really make you notice the distinctive Slavic nose type

    It’s readily discernible in certain cloud formations, too.

    A refusal to ever question one’s assumptions is also said to enhance one’s ability to spot it.

    • Replies: @DFH
    Thank you, you just made me check another source and Carleton Coon, who conducted extensive measurements, observed the same thing, a snubbed nose among Northern and Eastern Slavs.
  349. anon[304] • Disclaimer says:

    Maybe OT: After the big brouhaha about pulling US forces from Syria, Donald is now “reconsidering”.

    Nothing new – after peremoga comes always comes zrada, and after zrada always new peremoga, in eternal cycle of life.

    Happy New Year to everyone!

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/graham-says-i-feel-pretty-good-about-syria-after-lunch-with-trump

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    The Syria withdrawal might improve Russia’s position, but Afghanistan would be saving the empire from its own stupidity.
  350. @silviosilver

    Those photos really make you notice the distinctive Slavic nose type
     
    It's readily discernible in certain cloud formations, too.

    A refusal to ever question one's assumptions is also said to enhance one's ability to spot it.

    Thank you, you just made me check another source and Carleton Coon, who conducted extensive measurements, observed the same thing, a snubbed nose among Northern and Eastern Slavs.

  351. @anon
    Maybe OT: After the big brouhaha about pulling US forces from Syria, Donald is now "reconsidering".

    Nothing new - after peremoga comes always comes zrada, and after zrada always new peremoga, in eternal cycle of life.

    Happy New Year to everyone!

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/graham-says-i-feel-pretty-good-about-syria-after-lunch-with-trump

    https://twitter.com/yeh1a/status/1079540775208259586

    The Syria withdrawal might improve Russia’s position, but Afghanistan would be saving the empire from its own stupidity.

  352. @AP

    Shakespeare (and any of the English writers you listed) had foreign ancestors along many lines at a distance of 400 years.
     
    And among Russian aristocrats - most lines. This is the difference.

    It's why I sampled just the paternal lines of the most famous Russian aristocratic authors. Every one of them had foreign origin. But if you sample the paternal lines of English authors - most do not.

    The absolute majority of the Russian nobility was Russian.
     
    And yet, randomly looking just at paternal lines of most famous noble authors - every one had foreign origin. Is it just a wild coincidence?

    The existence of a foreign ancestor 400 years ago (in most cases mythological foreign ancestor), does not make a person a foreigner
     
    I wrote of foreign origin, with little local Russian descent. When, say, 60% of one's ancestors are of foreign origin it is noteworthy.

    That’s funny. In the Moscow princedom/Russian Tsardom massively migrated (or passed with their lands) lords of the Russian principalities on the territory of the medieval “Lithuania”. Among migrants-aristocrats were ethnic Lithuanians (or rather half and a quarter Lithuanians), but they were few. Polish aristocrats (ethnically Polish) in Moscow princedom/Russian Tsardom did not migrate.
     
    Poles came later. Wrubel had Polish origin.

    All these false “Western European” genealogies (with few exceptions) mask the origin from the local swineherds
     
    So when familytree DNA gave me Norway as likely origin, my legendary 12th century Varangian paternal descent was a fairytale?

    And Rurukid DNA project - all from Sweden except the Chernigov branch.

    And yet, randomly looking just at paternal lines of most famous noble authors – every one had foreign origin.

    Let’s check. Here is a list (created by Anatoly Karlin) of famous Russian writers/poetsTake the most famous authors who are on the chart above the line 20: Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Pushkin, Turgenev, Gogol, Chekhov.

    Dostoevsky was a descendant of boyar Daniel Rtishchev who in the 16th century was a vassal of the Prince of Pinsk (modern Belarus). Daniel Rtishchev was perhaps a descendant of a Tatar aristocrat who migrated to Moscow in the 14th century.

    Gogol is a descendant of Cossacks from Eastern Ukraine

    Tolstoy is an aristocratic family of Russian origin (this family included two great writers-Alexey Konstantinovich Tolstoy and Alexey Nikolaevich Tolstoy, as well as an exceptionally bad writer Leo Tolstoy). The genealogy from a German medieval aristocrat named Indris is completely mythical.

    Pushkin is an aristocratic family of Russian origin. Genealogy from a medieval Prussian aristocrat named Ratsha is completely mythical.

    Turgenev presumably was a descendant of a Tatar aristocrat who migrated to Moscow in the 15th century.

    Chekhov is a descendant of Russian peasants who lived near Voronezh.

    Summary: of the 6 writers/poets 4 have a purely Russian origin at paternal lines, 2 are presumably have Tatars ancestors ( in the 14th and 15th century, that is 400-500 years before the birth of Turgenev and Dostoevsky). Your statement “randomly looking just at paternal lines of most famous noble authors – every one had foreign origin” is just blatant lie

    I further detail answer your low-quality trolling

    • Replies: @anon
    Who cares about writers? It is 21th century, no one reads anymore, everyone watches cat and dog videos on yutube.
    Recently, on this forum, it had been proven beyond all reasonable doubt that Hungarian dogs are absolutely superior to all Romanian, Bulgarian, Serbian and other Balkan dogs.
    Now, do you have answer to the most important question of our time, the Russian/Ukrainian dog question? Which one is better?
    , @AP
    "Purely mythical" according to your convenience.

    My observation was that elites were of non-Russian origin. In your post you admit (but pretend it is "mythical) that all of the Russian writers of noble background had non-Russian paternal origins. Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy, Turgenev, Gogol.

    For example Tolstoy "myth":

    The Tolstoys were a well-known family of old Russian nobility who traced their ancestry to a mythical nobleman named Indris described by Pyotr Tolstoy as arriving "from Nemec, from the lands of Caesar" to Chernigov in 1353 along with his two sons Litvinos (or Litvonis) and Zimonten (or Zigmont) and a druzhina of 3000 people.[7][8] While the word "Nemec" has been long used to describe Germans only, back in the days it was applied to any foreigner who didn't speak Russian (from the word nemoy meaning mute).[9] Indris was then converted to Eastern Orthodoxy under the name of Leonty and his sons — as Konstantin and Feodor, respectively. Konstantin's grandson Andrei Kharitonovich was nicknamed Tolstiy (translated as fat) by Vasily II of Moscow after he moved from Chernigov to Moscow

    May not have been a German, but was some sort of non-Russian speaker. So clearly non-Russian.

    Pushkin's non-Russian origin dates to the 12th century. It is questionable, either way.

    ::::::::::::::::

    of the 6 writers/poets 4 have a purely Russian origin at paternal lines, 2 are presumably have Tatars ancestors ( in the 14th and 15th century, that is 400-500 years before the birth of Turgenev and Dostoevsky)
     
    As we see above, Tolstoy is of non-Russian paternal origin. So Tolstoy, Dostoyevsky, Turgenev, Gogol - non-Russian paternal origin. Pushkin is questionable.

    Only Chekhov, the son of a Russian commoner, had Russian paternal descent. Exactly as one would expect.

    So either 4/5 (if we discount Pushkin) or 5/5 Russian nobles are of non-Russian paternal origin, only the peasant is of Russian origin. If this is a representative sample than we have either 80% or 100% of Russian elite is of non-Russian origin.
  353. С Новым годом!

    З Новим роком!

    Happy New Year!

    Boldog új évet kívánok!

    • Replies: @anon

    С Новым годом!

    З Новим роком!

    Happy New Year!

    Boldog új évet kívánok!
     
    While you are all drunk, our former fellow commenter Glossy just uncovered another deep state conspiracy.

    https://twitter.com/Glossophiliac75/status/1079564345640652802

    Yes, it is true! Anatoly Karlin was personally recruited and paid by Soros to overthrow Russian government!

    Stay sober, stay vigilant!
  354. anon[372] • Disclaimer says:
    @melanf

    And yet, randomly looking just at paternal lines of most famous noble authors – every one had foreign origin.
     
    Let's check. Here is a list (created by Anatoly Karlin) of famous Russian writers/poets
    https://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/murray-rbc-eminence-russian-writers.png
    Take the most famous authors who are on the chart above the line 20: Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Pushkin, Turgenev, Gogol, Chekhov.


    Dostoevsky was a descendant of boyar Daniel Rtishchev who in the 16th century was a vassal of the Prince of Pinsk (modern Belarus). Daniel Rtishchev was perhaps a descendant of a Tatar aristocrat who migrated to Moscow in the 14th century.

    Gogol is a descendant of Cossacks from Eastern Ukraine

    Tolstoy is an aristocratic family of Russian origin (this family included two great writers-Alexey Konstantinovich Tolstoy and Alexey Nikolaevich Tolstoy, as well as an exceptionally bad writer Leo Tolstoy). The genealogy from a German medieval aristocrat named Indris is completely mythical.

    Pushkin is an aristocratic family of Russian origin. Genealogy from a medieval Prussian aristocrat named Ratsha is completely mythical.

    Turgenev presumably was a descendant of a Tatar aristocrat who migrated to Moscow in the 15th century.

    Chekhov is a descendant of Russian peasants who lived near Voronezh.

    Summary: of the 6 writers/poets 4 have a purely Russian origin at paternal lines, 2 are presumably have Tatars ancestors ( in the 14th and 15th century, that is 400-500 years before the birth of Turgenev and Dostoevsky). Your statement "randomly looking just at paternal lines of most famous noble authors – every one had foreign origin" is just blatant lie

    I further detail answer your low-quality trolling

    Who cares about writers? It is 21th century, no one reads anymore, everyone watches cat and dog videos on yutube.
    Recently, on this forum, it had been proven beyond all reasonable doubt that Hungarian dogs are absolutely superior to all Romanian, Bulgarian, Serbian and other Balkan dogs.
    Now, do you have answer to the most important question of our time, the Russian/Ukrainian dog question? Which one is better?

  355. @songbird
    About ten years ago, the US Army ran a recruiting campaign in Spanish. "Yo soy el army." I was dumbfounded by it. I had had my fears before, but I think that was when I realized the US is probably fucked. Though, I guess it is better than Arabic, or one of those clicking languages of Africa.

    The desire to fill recruitment quotas at whatever cost has a strange similarity to the importation of bodies which underpins the faulty economic reasoning of globalism.

    They probably wish Turkey was part of the EU. I've heard that they are discussing bringing back the draft this time for women too. What idiots - I'm sure a unisex draft will do wonders for Germany's TFR.

    They probably wish Turkey was part of the EU.

    Doubt it.
    It means power-sharing with Ankara and money-sharing with poorer Turkey which they do not want.
    Same reason why would reject Russia.
    Current customs union deal is optimal for Brüssel.

    • Replies: @songbird
    On one side, an ambition to join the EU. On the other, the Star and Crescent and two planes (loosley suggestive of 9/11). Or perhaps, it suggests emigration. I take it that it is not a circulating coin - a pity.

    In the US, we often get Canadian coins slipped into our change. Once, my brother even got one from the UAE or that vicinity. I think it would be good if Europeans had a few Turkish coins slipped in - to warn them. Preferably, something that says "new lira" on it.

    I used to like the idiosyncrasies of European money before the EU was introduced. Some countries had portraits of authors, artists, and poets. In contrast, I believe all Turkish money has Atatürk on it. No wonder he has such a cult of personality there.
  356. anon[372] • Disclaimer says:
    @reiner Tor
    С Новым годом!

    З Новим роком!

    Happy New Year!

    Boldog új évet kívánok!

    С Новым годом!

    З Новим роком!

    Happy New Year!

    Boldog új évet kívánok!

    While you are all drunk, our former fellow commenter Glossy just uncovered another deep state conspiracy.

    Yes, it is true! Anatoly Karlin was personally recruited and paid by Soros to overthrow Russian government!

    Stay sober, stay vigilant!

    • LOL: AP, Swarthy Greek
    • Replies: @Dmitry

    He’s a member of an organization that wants to overthrow the Russian government
     
    I'm guessing they believe it is some Vasserman/Kholmogorov (?) related operation to overthrow the government, install Karlin to the throne- from where he would abolish Victory Day, introduce Indian food to schools, and teach the children about the political competence of Nicholas II, or reform the maths syllabus so to learn about the statistical rigor of Solzhenitsyn, etc?
  357. @Adam
    >Ah, so you are incapable of actually reading what I wrote in my posts on the subject.

    I read enough. Almost all of the proof you have provided that Russian writers are non-Russian is centuries old foreign ancestry, save Gogol who is obviously not an ethnic Great Russian. You also stated explicitly "The time when their ancestors came to Russia is irrelevant to this point. Only peasants were actual ethnic Russians for the most part.".

    You clearly have a fundamental belief that having any foreign ancestry of any sort, or at having a foreign progenitor, makes you forever a foreigner no matter how assimilated you and your immediate ancestors are.

    >Anon from TN can show you the way. Russia is a state of mind.

    Being German is a state of mind too. What did Prussians, Bavarians, and Low German speakers have in common other than the idea of Germany? Hell, East Germans are genetically Slavic (which of course makes them Wends larping as German). Anyway, I'll have no part in the brotherhood of nations garbage that he peddles and I know you don't believe in it either.

    >It wasn’t just some lone Tatar from the 14th century. Most of his ancestors were of non-Russian origin. They were almost all Lithuanian, Belarussian, Ukrainian, Polish. As I wrote, most of the Russian elites were not of Russian ethnic origin. The peasants were real Russians. This makes Russia quite different from Germany, France, Poland, etc.

    I underestimated the proportion of foreign ancestry Dostoevsky had, though the point remains. Unless you can scrounge up evidence that his immediate ancestors were non-Russian, we're talking centuries old foreign ancestry.

    The major noble families were disproportionally non-Russian, and for a time foreigners dominated the Russian state. A majority of the elite overall however was Russian.

    Noble families were not bound by nationalism. Intermarriage between nobles of different ethnic groups was and is extremely common. Spain was ruled by German Hasburgs for centuries. It continues to be ruled by the French house of Bourbon. Britain is ruled by a German house. Sweden is ruled by a French house. Denmark is ruled by a German house, as is Norway. Many nobles in Poland were of Lithuanian, Rus, or Tatar origin. This is the absolute norm of European royal politics. You would, however, be an imbecile to call Queen Elizabeth a German.

    >I do none of these things. I do insult Sovoks. If you equate Russians with Sovoks than you are the one who insults Russia.

    I fail to understand where you pulled that one from. The idea that Russia is a rootless, deracinated marketplace bound together by common values and 'actual Russians' have never achieved anything seems a Sovok idea to me.

    You lack the shrillness of a typical Ukrainian nationalist, but you still propagate the same ideas. You're clearly anti-Russian, and undermine the cultural, historical, and ethnic legitimacy of Russians all the time. Probably you do this as an amusing past time and a way to pretend to not be an American, but I'll just take your comments at face value.

    As for melanf's idiotic statements about Russian peasants, it has no relevance. He has a realistic view of the ethnic origins of Russians, unlike yourself.

    Being German is a state of mind too. What did Prussians, Bavarians, and Low German speakers have in common other than the idea of Germany

    Correct.
    Historically, Germany is primarily a Kulturnation, though in modern times its identity was more defined by economics.

  358. @Adam
    >Ah, so you are incapable of actually reading what I wrote in my posts on the subject.

    I read enough. Almost all of the proof you have provided that Russian writers are non-Russian is centuries old foreign ancestry, save Gogol who is obviously not an ethnic Great Russian. You also stated explicitly "The time when their ancestors came to Russia is irrelevant to this point. Only peasants were actual ethnic Russians for the most part.".

    You clearly have a fundamental belief that having any foreign ancestry of any sort, or at having a foreign progenitor, makes you forever a foreigner no matter how assimilated you and your immediate ancestors are.

    >Anon from TN can show you the way. Russia is a state of mind.

    Being German is a state of mind too. What did Prussians, Bavarians, and Low German speakers have in common other than the idea of Germany? Hell, East Germans are genetically Slavic (which of course makes them Wends larping as German). Anyway, I'll have no part in the brotherhood of nations garbage that he peddles and I know you don't believe in it either.

    >It wasn’t just some lone Tatar from the 14th century. Most of his ancestors were of non-Russian origin. They were almost all Lithuanian, Belarussian, Ukrainian, Polish. As I wrote, most of the Russian elites were not of Russian ethnic origin. The peasants were real Russians. This makes Russia quite different from Germany, France, Poland, etc.

    I underestimated the proportion of foreign ancestry Dostoevsky had, though the point remains. Unless you can scrounge up evidence that his immediate ancestors were non-Russian, we're talking centuries old foreign ancestry.

    The major noble families were disproportionally non-Russian, and for a time foreigners dominated the Russian state. A majority of the elite overall however was Russian.

    Noble families were not bound by nationalism. Intermarriage between nobles of different ethnic groups was and is extremely common. Spain was ruled by German Hasburgs for centuries. It continues to be ruled by the French house of Bourbon. Britain is ruled by a German house. Sweden is ruled by a French house. Denmark is ruled by a German house, as is Norway. Many nobles in Poland were of Lithuanian, Rus, or Tatar origin. This is the absolute norm of European royal politics. You would, however, be an imbecile to call Queen Elizabeth a German.

    >I do none of these things. I do insult Sovoks. If you equate Russians with Sovoks than you are the one who insults Russia.

    I fail to understand where you pulled that one from. The idea that Russia is a rootless, deracinated marketplace bound together by common values and 'actual Russians' have never achieved anything seems a Sovok idea to me.

    You lack the shrillness of a typical Ukrainian nationalist, but you still propagate the same ideas. You're clearly anti-Russian, and undermine the cultural, historical, and ethnic legitimacy of Russians all the time. Probably you do this as an amusing past time and a way to pretend to not be an American, but I'll just take your comments at face value.

    As for melanf's idiotic statements about Russian peasants, it has no relevance. He has a realistic view of the ethnic origins of Russians, unlike yourself.

    You clearly have a fundamental belief that having any foreign ancestry of any sort, or at having a foreign progenitor, makes you forever a foreigner no matter how assimilated you and your immediate ancestors are.

    I have clearly pointed out that Russian elites had mostly foreign ancestry, not merely “any foreign ancestry of any sort”. Had your reading comprehension not failed you, you would have understood that. Indeed, this is the difference between a Shakespeare who had a few French ancestors here and there, and a Wrubel, who was mostly Polish, Danish, Tatar, Finnish-German.

    That those elite Russians’ foreign ancestors often came to Russia centuries ago does not change that fact. It was a stratum of non-natives, with new ones added over the generations.

    The major noble families were disproportionally non-Russian, and for a time foreigners dominated the Russian state. A majority of the elite overall however was Russian.

    They were Russified non-Russians in the majority. And this is interesting and makes Russian elites very different form those of most European countries. Prussian Junkers may have had some Polish ancestors here or there, but they were not of primarily non-German descent. Likewise with French,
    Bavarian, etc. elites. It’s an interesting phenomenon.

    And in Russia this was true not only of the ruling family (indeed this is common) but even amongst regular nobles such as Dostoyevsky.

    >I do none of these things. I do insult Sovoks. If you equate Russians with Sovoks than you are the one who insults Russia.

    I fail to understand where you pulled that one from

    The only time I have said anything negative about Russians is when in connection to the Soviet legacy, which has done things such as produce a high abortion rate among them.

    The idea that Russia is a rootless, deracinated marketplace bound together by common values and ‘actual Russians’ have never achieved anything

    On the contrary, the fact that Russian culture has managed to draw in and assimilate many elites of foreign backgrounds is a tribute to its beauty. Dostoyevsky, though not of hardly any actual Russian descent, was perhaps the greatest novelist ever, and a complete patriot of the Russian project, a project fascinatingly largely driven over the centuries by people, such as Dostoyevsky, not of Russian descent. Even the Orthodoxy forced upon the Slavic people of Russia and Ukraine was a project of Rurikid Swedes.

    You lack the shrillness of a typical Ukrainian nationalist, but you still propagate the same ideas.

    Ukrainian nationalists believe their nation is the continuation of Kieven Rus, deemphasize their nation’s Polish heritage, love Bandera the mass-murderer and Khmelytsky who has much in common in him, think Russians are dirty and dumb savages who have contributed little to the world. I propagate none of those things.

  359. @melanf

    And yet, randomly looking just at paternal lines of most famous noble authors – every one had foreign origin.
     
    Let's check. Here is a list (created by Anatoly Karlin) of famous Russian writers/poets
    https://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/murray-rbc-eminence-russian-writers.png
    Take the most famous authors who are on the chart above the line 20: Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Pushkin, Turgenev, Gogol, Chekhov.


    Dostoevsky was a descendant of boyar Daniel Rtishchev who in the 16th century was a vassal of the Prince of Pinsk (modern Belarus). Daniel Rtishchev was perhaps a descendant of a Tatar aristocrat who migrated to Moscow in the 14th century.

    Gogol is a descendant of Cossacks from Eastern Ukraine

    Tolstoy is an aristocratic family of Russian origin (this family included two great writers-Alexey Konstantinovich Tolstoy and Alexey Nikolaevich Tolstoy, as well as an exceptionally bad writer Leo Tolstoy). The genealogy from a German medieval aristocrat named Indris is completely mythical.

    Pushkin is an aristocratic family of Russian origin. Genealogy from a medieval Prussian aristocrat named Ratsha is completely mythical.

    Turgenev presumably was a descendant of a Tatar aristocrat who migrated to Moscow in the 15th century.

    Chekhov is a descendant of Russian peasants who lived near Voronezh.

    Summary: of the 6 writers/poets 4 have a purely Russian origin at paternal lines, 2 are presumably have Tatars ancestors ( in the 14th and 15th century, that is 400-500 years before the birth of Turgenev and Dostoevsky). Your statement "randomly looking just at paternal lines of most famous noble authors – every one had foreign origin" is just blatant lie

    I further detail answer your low-quality trolling

    “Purely mythical” according to your convenience.

    My observation was that elites were of non-Russian origin. In your post you admit (but pretend it is “mythical) that all of the Russian writers of noble background had non-Russian paternal origins. Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy, Turgenev, Gogol.

    For example Tolstoy “myth”:

    The Tolstoys were a well-known family of old Russian nobility who traced their ancestry to a mythical nobleman named Indris described by Pyotr Tolstoy as arriving “from Nemec, from the lands of Caesar” to Chernigov in 1353 along with his two sons Litvinos (or Litvonis) and Zimonten (or Zigmont) and a druzhina of 3000 people.[7][8] While the word “Nemec” has been long used to describe Germans only, back in the days it was applied to any foreigner who didn’t speak Russian (from the word nemoy meaning mute).[9] Indris was then converted to Eastern Orthodoxy under the name of Leonty and his sons — as Konstantin and Feodor, respectively. Konstantin’s grandson Andrei Kharitonovich was nicknamed Tolstiy (translated as fat) by Vasily II of Moscow after he moved from Chernigov to Moscow

    May not have been a German, but was some sort of non-Russian speaker. So clearly non-Russian.

    Pushkin’s non-Russian origin dates to the 12th century. It is questionable, either way.

    ::::::::::::::::

    of the 6 writers/poets 4 have a purely Russian origin at paternal lines, 2 are presumably have Tatars ancestors ( in the 14th and 15th century, that is 400-500 years before the birth of Turgenev and Dostoevsky)

    As we see above, Tolstoy is of non-Russian paternal origin. So Tolstoy, Dostoyevsky, Turgenev, Gogol – non-Russian paternal origin. Pushkin is questionable.

    Only Chekhov, the son of a Russian commoner, had Russian paternal descent. Exactly as one would expect.

    So either 4/5 (if we discount Pushkin) or 5/5 Russian nobles are of non-Russian paternal origin, only the peasant is of Russian origin. If this is a representative sample than we have either 80% or 100% of Russian elite is of non-Russian origin.

    • Replies: @melanf

    “Purely mythical” according to your convenience.
     
    Mythical according to historians. Quote (from Wikipedia?) which you yourself posted "The Tolstoys were a well-known family of old Russian nobility who traced their ancestry to a mythical nobleman named Indris".
    Ask German Reader if there are known cases of resettlement of German aristocrats in Russia in the 12-14 century (with a change of religion), and whether the names of Indris and Ratha are known among the German aristocracy.

    As we see above, Tolstoy is of non-Russian paternal origin. So Tolstoy, Dostoyevsky, Turgenev, Gogol – non-Russian paternal origin.
     
    Well, great,
    let us analyze the case of the Tolstoy family. The only source about the Indris ( i.e. about German origin of the Tolstoy family) is the genealogy which was recorded (or invented) by count Peter Andreevich Tolstoy (1645 — 1729).
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f9/Tolstoy_peter.jpg/390px-Tolstoy_peter.jpg
    In this genealogy Peter Tolstoy claimed that the ancestor of the Tolstoy family was Indris, a German from the land of Kaiser (that is, from the German Empire ), who migrated in 1353 with two sons and three thousand warriors (!) in Chernigov. This Indris had army of three thousand vassals, that is, was one of the greatest feudal lords of his era. However, he is completely unknown in sources from the 14th century, and appears only in genealogy composed 400 years later.

    I suggest the following: let German Reader decide - are the information about Indris reliable, or it is fiction created in order to make the Tolstoy family more ancient and more noble. This will be a constructive way to resolve this issue. If instead you will continue to post duckspeaks ("As we see above, Tolstoy is of non-Russian paternal origin"), such discussion in the style of schoolboys is not interesting to me.
  360. Well, Happy New Year to everyone.

    20 years ago I was celebrating the new millenium on Red Square (actually by the Bolshoy, Red Square was crowded). In the USA people were saying that it would be dangerous in Russia due to Y2K – surely the “backward” country wasn’t ready for it. In Russia they were saying I was lucky to be in Russia – Russia wasn’t computerized but the USA would be screwed. Fortunately everyone was wrong. A common pattern 🙂

    • Replies: @AP
    LOL, I was off by a year.
  361. @AP
    Well, Happy New Year to everyone.

    20 years ago I was celebrating the new millenium on Red Square (actually by the Bolshoy, Red Square was crowded). In the USA people were saying that it would be dangerous in Russia due to Y2K - surely the "backward" country wasn't ready for it. In Russia they were saying I was lucky to be in Russia - Russia wasn't computerized but the USA would be screwed. Fortunately everyone was wrong. A common pattern :-)

    LOL, I was off by a year.

  362. @AP

    Russians are genetically, linguistically, and culturally European (though they differ from the rest of Europe somewhat in that last sense), however their physical remoteness and geopolitical position has precluded any real identity as Europeans.
     
    Roughly analogous to Spaniards.

    Most Russians regard themselves simply as Russians, or perhaps Slavs
     
    Correct.

    while Europeans have always regarded Russians as partially or mostly an Asiatic people.
     
    Europeans traditionally regard anyone to the west of themselves as partially Asiatic. Germans - Huns. Germans say Europe ends at the Elbe. Poles say they are Europe's Eastern stronghold. Ukrainians say Russians are Tatars-Mongols. Russians generally embrace their mixed nature, seeing it as positive.

    Germans say Europe ends at the Elbe.

    Konrad Adenauer said that, and that was due to his anti-Prussian Rhineland Catholicism, that is intra-German conflicts. It wasn’t a consensus view back then and it isn’t now.
    There’s of course a long tradition of highly negative (and during the Nazi era extremely racist) German perceptions of Eastern Europe and Russia, though imo these weren’t the only strains (even among the Nazis there were somewhat different views how to view and treat Russians, though the views of Hitler and Himmler remained dominant).

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Many Nazi racial theorists were surprised at the number of blue-eyed blondes in Russia and Poland, and thought that they should be assimilated rather than exterminated.
  363. @German_reader

    Germans say Europe ends at the Elbe.
     
    Konrad Adenauer said that, and that was due to his anti-Prussian Rhineland Catholicism, that is intra-German conflicts. It wasn't a consensus view back then and it isn't now.
    There's of course a long tradition of highly negative (and during the Nazi era extremely racist) German perceptions of Eastern Europe and Russia, though imo these weren't the only strains (even among the Nazis there were somewhat different views how to view and treat Russians, though the views of Hitler and Himmler remained dominant).

    Many Nazi racial theorists were surprised at the number of blue-eyed blondes in Russia and Poland, and thought that they should be assimilated rather than exterminated.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    I recently listened to parts of Himmler's Posen speech (which is actually much more about Slavs and matters in the Reich than about Jews) where he argues exactly against such views, emphasizing instead the alleged Hunnish and Mongol character of many Slavs (though he also speaks of "racially valuable" Slavs whose children need to be taken away). He also argues against the idea that Russia could only be defeated with the help of Russians.
    So obviously there was some internal discussion and dissension even among the Nazi elite (though the basic parameters of debate of course remained Nordicist-racist).
    , @Hyperborean

    Many Nazi racial theorists were surprised at the number of blue-eyed blondes in Russia and Poland, and thought that they should be assimilated rather than exterminated.
     
    From Madison Grant's The Passing of the Great Race (1916):

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4a/Passing_of_the_Great_Race_-_Map_4.jpg/250px-Passing_of_the_Great_Race_-_Map_4.jpg
  364. @reiner Tor
    Many Nazi racial theorists were surprised at the number of blue-eyed blondes in Russia and Poland, and thought that they should be assimilated rather than exterminated.

    I recently listened to parts of Himmler’s Posen speech (which is actually much more about Slavs and matters in the Reich than about Jews) where he argues exactly against such views, emphasizing instead the alleged Hunnish and Mongol character of many Slavs (though he also speaks of “racially valuable” Slavs whose children need to be taken away). He also argues against the idea that Russia could only be defeated with the help of Russians.
    So obviously there was some internal discussion and dissension even among the Nazi elite (though the basic parameters of debate of course remained Nordicist-racist).

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    There was great animosity between the Wartheland Gauleiter Arthur Greiser and the Danzig-Westpreußen Gauleiter Albert Forster, the latter supporting mass assimilation of those willing to sign up for Germanization (and extermination or deportation and ethnic cleansing for those who refused). Himmler supported Greiser, but Hitler refused to intervene, despite generally agreeing with Himmler and Greiser. Forster famously said that he wouldn’t talk about race if he looked like Himmler.
    , @Mikhail

    I recently listened to parts of Himmler’s Posen speech (which is actually much more about Slavs and matters in the Reich than about Jews) where he argues exactly against such views, emphasizing instead the alleged Hunnish and Mongol character of many Slavs (though he also speaks of “racially valuable” Slavs whose children need to be taken away). He also argues against the idea that Russia could only be defeated with the help of Russians.
     
    Relates back to the note I made earlier at this thread about a US aired documentary saying that some Nazis realized that German and other perceived Aryan numbers alone wouldn't be enough to successfully settle in the east. To some extent what Himmler said on this matter happened.

    After being captured by the Nazi, Vlasov said that Russia could only be defeated by Russians - something that infuriated some of the Nazi hierarchy (wouldn't be surprised if one of them was Himmler). I sense that Himmler made that comment after that statement from Vlasov and that it was said when the tide of the war changed against the Nazis.

    In Goebbels' diary, he makes mention of how the Nazis misused Vlasov and other captured Russians, who were interested in creating a strong non-Communist Russia - a matter related to how the likes of Czech