The Unz Review: An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersiSteve Blog
What Happened to NFL Players Becoming Hollywood Actors?
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

Here’s a question: Why did Hollywood in the Postwar Era constantly hire professional football players for movie and TV roles? For example, countless Los Angeles Rams were cast in various roles, with at least five going on to full time careers as actors after they left the NFL: Woody Strode, Merlin Olsen, Bernie Casey, Fred Dryer, and, perhaps last, Terry Crews.

(Similarly, but slightly differently, college football players who became huge movie stars included John Wayne and Burt Reynolds.)

One reason is clearly that being an NFL player wasn’t very high-paying until recently, while the off-season was longer, and players weren’t expected to spend every moment of it working out.

Another possibility is that the acting demands were less rigorous in Hollywood’s past. Any big galoot might have what it takes to start acting professionally in his 20s or even 30s and quickly become good enough for Hollywood work.

Today, however, top actors like Leonardo DiCaprio typically were working professionally at least by adolescence. I suspect this selects for greater boyishness in today’s stars: DiCaprio first came to wide attention (IIRC) as a 16-year-old credibly playing a 13-year-old in Gilbert Grape. There aren’t a lot of actual 13-year-olds who can carry a major role, so older boys who look younger are cast.

But, yeah, I think today’s stars are more technically skilled at acting than yesterday’s stars.

Meanwhile, LeBron James, who looked 30 when he was 16-years-old, wants to become a big deal in Hollywood (one reason he’s currently with the Los Angeles Lakers, even though it’s easier to get to the NBA finals playing in the Eastern Conference). He’s not bad (he was decently funny playing himself in Amy Schumer’s “Trainwreck”), but most of recent history is against him.

We’ll see.

 
Hide 123 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
  1. Question, Steve – if you had to put it into words what do you mean by “boyishness”? I agree with you, but was wondering if I had to explain it to someone else, I’m not quite sure what specific traits to point to (besides obviously looking like a younger boy).

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Basic measure of boyishness is Looking younger than your real years. Tom Cruise, DiCaprio, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Keanu Reeves, etc.

    In contrast, Ronald Reagan always looked his age, so his movie career fizzled out pretty fast as he aged.

    Movies want a hero who looks about 35.

    Cary Grant had the best of both worlds: he didn't look younger when he was less than 35 but he stayed looking 35ish forever.

    But most don't have what it takes to have Cary Grant's career.

    , @Reg Cæsar

    if you had to put it into words what do you mean by “boyishness”? I agree with you, but was wondering if I had to explain it to someone else, I’m not quite sure what specific traits to point to (besides obviously looking like a younger boy).
     
    Check with the State Correctional Institution at Laurel Highlands, Somerset, Penna. Inmate # KT2386 may be available for interviews.

    http://inmatelocator.cor.pa.gov/#/
    , @syonredux

    Question, Steve – if you had to put it into words what do you mean by “boyishness”?
     
    None of these actors would ever be called "boyish"; they are men:

    William Holden

    http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large/the-bridges-at-toko-ri-william-holden-everett.jpg

    Charlton Heston


    https://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/images/charlton-heston-3.jpg


    Jack Palance



    https://www.doctormacro.com/Images/Palance,%20Jack/Palance,%20Jack_01.jpg


    Sean Connery


    http://abcnews.go.com/images/Entertainment/GTY-sean-connery-james-bond-goldfinger-jt-170116.jpg


    Burt Lancaster



    https://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/images/burt-lancaster-5.jpg
  2. Woody Strode was quite good in The Professionals and other movies. He had an interesting look and a dignified manner.

  3. “What’s Eating Gilbert Grape?” is a really good, touching movie. Leo DeCaprio played not only a 13-y/o, but a retarded 13 y/o. Johnny Depp was his older brother who had to take care of about everything. Andy McDowell is in the movie, and I like her.

    It’d have been a good movie no matter who played anybody, as long at they could do acting decently. Who cares who these Hollywood people are? Steve, get out of LA for a while. It’ll do you good. Fill up the Honda, and Head East, young man.

    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson 3

    Leo DeCaprio played not only a 13-y/o, but a retarded 13 y/o
     
    Acting is not difficult if you play yourself.
    , @MikeatMikedotMike
    "“What’s Eating Gilbert Grape?” is a really good, touching movie. "

    Disagree. It is a tired and cynical portrayal of rural white America, as seen through the eyes of the woke teenage hero who must endure his stereotypical trailer trash family.
    , @Hapalong Cassidy
    “Leo DeCaprio played not only a 13-y/o, but a retarded 13 y/o. “

    Yeah, he definitely went full retard for that role. Which explains why he didn’t win.
  4. @anonwatcher
    Question, Steve - if you had to put it into words what do you mean by "boyishness"? I agree with you, but was wondering if I had to explain it to someone else, I'm not quite sure what specific traits to point to (besides obviously looking like a younger boy).

    Basic measure of boyishness is Looking younger than your real years. Tom Cruise, DiCaprio, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Keanu Reeves, etc.

    In contrast, Ronald Reagan always looked his age, so his movie career fizzled out pretty fast as he aged.

    Movies want a hero who looks about 35.

    Cary Grant had the best of both worlds: he didn’t look younger when he was less than 35 but he stayed looking 35ish forever.

    But most don’t have what it takes to have Cary Grant’s career.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Jon Hamm has said he had difficulty getting roles prior to Mad Men because the preference was for boyish actors.
    , @Anonymous
    Yeah, but Keanu Reeves at age 54 finally looks like he is 35 years old. He finally looks like a man and not a boy(and what a man!- no homo). Have you watched the John Wick films? He has apparently been offered some $75 mil to reprise his role as the legendary hitman who just can't forgive and forget for a fourth time. John Wick: Parabellum actally beat Avengers: Endgame at the box office for 2 weeks in a row. Not bad for a relatively small budget film.

    Of course, when it comes to playing the role of John Wick, Reeve's absurdly symmetrical face, black hair and semi-Asiatic eyes helps: he truly looks like an unstoppable demon from some hell hole in eastern Europe.

    As for Carey Grant, he is one of the most overrated stars ever. I don't undrrstand why you hold him in such high regard. Sure, he was classically handsome, but the guy was boring and corny and only made those cheesy romantic films. He had no distinctive personality, just a boring square white guy from his time. Even his looks were generic. Sure, he was handsome, but there was nothing distinctive about his handsomeness. Unlike actors like Keanu Reeves, Jason Statham, Benedict Cumberbatch, George Clooney, who are all not only handsome but have a distinctive look to their features. Grant just looked like a very handsome man, but his features were not exotic or remarkable. Also, Grant was a notorious bisexual(yes, bisexual men DO exist), so I don't understand why a conservative who worships heterosexuality would admire him so much.

    , @Harry Baldwin
    Basic measure of boyishness is looking younger than your real years.

    There is that quality, which is why someone like Johnny Carson always seemed boyish. But there's also the quality of not seeming like a real grown-up man, which a lot of today's male stars do not.

    Look at the cast of The Wild Bunch, with William Holden, Robert Ryan, Ernest Borgnine, Warren Oates, and Ben Johnson--those guys came off as grown men. They'd been in the military, had some experience of real life, looked like they had gotten into a few fistfights, and didn't look like they spent three hours a day at the gym. No "boyishness" about them.

    , @Bardon Kaldian
    Boyish look doesn't mean that a person is not masculine re personality: cf. Audie Murphy. And, there are actors who somehow age "non-linearly" - Harrison Ford comes to mind. He looked too young for too long; then, he swiftly visually matured when he had been 35-40.
    , @Fred C Dobbs
    "So tell me about yourself...."

    "Not much TO tell. Not a lot of education. Something of a juvenile delinquent. Rode the rails for a time, eventually winding up here in California. Since the war started I've been a machinist at Lockheed in Burbank."

    "PERFECT! Exactly what we're looking for!"
    ==================

    Robert Mitchum may not have been much of an actor, and certainly not in the traditional sense, but he certainly embodies what Old Hollywood was...people who by dumb luck, circumstance and looking good in a double-breasted suit happened to make something of themselves in the not very exacting science of acting.

    I've averaged about two movies a year for the last 20 or so years, so I am not the first person to ask, but it seems just about everyone in today's Hollywood got their start exceptionally young......child actors from the New York stage, perhaps, or stints in one of the many Disney productions. Lucky Sperm Club Winners Only - No others need apply. In some ways I suppose just another example of our modern world's demand for over-credentialization.
  5. There was a prime time hour once when you could watch Alex Karras and Bob Uecker in succession starring as harried husbands named George.

  6. It’s all about equality, women are just as powerful as men, that’s PC doctrine. Movies are a visual medium, women must be presented as approximately equal in height.

    How can you do that with male actors that are 6’5” and 275 pounds? You can’t. So ideally you cast 95th percentile women and 40th percentile men. Or put 50th percentile women in 4 inch heels next to 50th percentile men.
    .

    • Replies: @Kronos
    I’ve noticed taller women generally keep their figure better than the shorties.
    , @Alden
    They use connecting boxes for height differences. If the actors just stand together, one or two boxes. If they walk along the crew just connects enough boxes for the scene. Simple.
  7. I suspect Current Hollywood doesn’t like the strong male image of an NFL player. Especially if he’s White.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    I dunno: Gronk (white) Wilson (Cafe'au lait) were pretty popular in Entourage.

    The following is soooooo insanely iStevie!: a bunch of nerds salivating over athletes:

    https://youtu.be/oqwHDuiDIJc

    , @Rich
    Are there any Whites left in the NFL? It's worse than the NBA or SEC football.
  8. Some have decided there’s more money in activism?

  9. I suspect this selects for greater boyishness in today’s stars: DiCaprio first came to wide attention (IIRC) as a 16-year-old credibly playing a 13-year-old in Gilbert Grape. There aren’t a lot of actual 13-year-olds who can carry a major role, so older boys who look younger are cast.

    DiCaprio has always been unusually young looking at every age. He was actually 18, not 16, when filming for What’s Eating Gilbert Grape began in November 1992. He is 44 now and plays a middle-aged guy in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood—but he could be cast in any movie as a guy in his mid-20s, very credibly.

  10. Up through the 60’s of some NFL/AFL players made more money doing the professional wrestling than in football, Wahoo McDaniel and Dory Funk being good examples (love those names!). They transitioned to wrestling full-time right before the big football money hit.

    • Replies: @Russ

    Up through the 60’s of some NFL/AFL players made more money doing the professional wrestling than in football, Wahoo McDaniel and Dory Funk being good examples (love those names!).
     
    My favorites in this vein were McDaniel contemporary Ernie Ladd, and talented 70s/80s tight end Russ Francis.
  11. The NFL is at least 70% black and now Hollywood now looks to rappers to fill black roles. Plus there are a lot more black men pursuing acting as a career.

  12. OJ Simpson’s huge head made him look menacingly Bronze Age big (except in the frontal lobe department. (Michael Caine once said that if the female lead has a bigger head than the male their scenes won’t look right). Maybe NFL players (at heights and weights inconceivable a few decades ago) are just too great in height and weight now to look right beside a normal sized actress.

    Joe Namath and Ann Margret

    • Replies: @fish

    Maybe NFL players (at heights and weights inconceivable a few decades ago) are just too great in height and weight now to look right beside a normal sized actress.
     
    Manny Fernandez played defensive Tackle for the "Perfect Season Miami Dolphins at 6' 2", 225 lbs. He was listed larger (but not much) in NFL and Miami Dolphin records. These days that's cornerback/receiver/punter sized.
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson 3
    Not Samantha with OJ! NOOOOOO! OJ married Samantha, then he murdered her! Juice, how could you be so stupid! Oh, wait.
  13. In discussing Andrew Luck’s decision to leave the NFL at 29 (because of his injury history, most likely due to the really bad O-lines in front of him in the first half of his career), NFL Network’s Peter Brandt mentioned on the Bill Simmons’ podcast that we’ve had early retirements like this before (think Barry Sanders and Calvin Johnson of the Lions) and SPECIFICALLY mentioned James Brown retiring to…become a full time movie star.

    • Replies: @Danindc
    Others may know him as Jim Brown.

    Jim Brown once threw his girlfriend off a 7th floor balcony. However, in his defense, he was high on PCP at the time...
    , @R.G. Camara
    With Andrew Luck, no one is discussing something more nefarious: his father, who currently is in charge of the XFL for Vince McMahon.

    Luck could be retiring to get out of his contract...then in 1-2 years "unretire" and join the XFL for his dad, claiming he's all healed and that the XFL won't give him concussions like the NFL.
    , @Known Fact
    I heard just today that Jim Brown was filming a western and with shooting running late, into the football season, the team demanded his presence -- so he told them, screw you. Thus his retirement
    , @Larry, San Francisco
    James Brown was really good as an action star in 2 of favorite movies of that era, Dirty Dozen and Ice Station Zebra
    , @SteveRogers42
    James Brown - singer/dancer

    Jim Brown - football/lacrosse/movies
    , @David In TN
    He's never been known to the public as James Brown, although his birth name is James Nathaniel Brown. For most of his football career, he was called "Jimmy Brown." From 1964-65 and after leaving football for the movies, he was "Jim Brown."

    Jim Brown was the most successful ex-athlete ever in movies at the time. He was an A-List performer for about four years. Then audiences seemed to get tired of him and he declined as a box office attraction.
  14. @DCThrowback
    In discussing Andrew Luck's decision to leave the NFL at 29 (because of his injury history, most likely due to the really bad O-lines in front of him in the first half of his career), NFL Network's Peter Brandt mentioned on the Bill Simmons' podcast that we've had early retirements like this before (think Barry Sanders and Calvin Johnson of the Lions) and SPECIFICALLY mentioned James Brown retiring to...become a full time movie star.

    Others may know him as Jim Brown.

    Jim Brown once threw his girlfriend off a 7th floor balcony. However, in his defense, he was high on PCP at the time…

  15. @Sean
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3d/45/3c/3d453cfed2b3e4fc4aa51228a0dc5601.jpg



    OJ Simpson's huge head made him look menacingly Bronze Age big (except in the frontal lobe department. (Michael Caine once said that if the female lead has a bigger head than the male their scenes won't look right). Maybe NFL players (at heights and weights inconceivable a few decades ago) are just too great in height and weight now to look right beside a normal sized actress.

    Joe Namath and Ann Margret
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riGumTYMhc4

    Maybe NFL players (at heights and weights inconceivable a few decades ago) are just too great in height and weight now to look right beside a normal sized actress.

    Manny Fernandez played defensive Tackle for the “Perfect Season Miami Dolphins at 6′ 2”, 225 lbs. He was listed larger (but not much) in NFL and Miami Dolphin records. These days that’s cornerback/receiver/punter sized.

    • Replies: @David In TN
    After Super Bowl VII, in which the Dolphins beat the Redskins, I listened to a sports talk show discussing the game. One of the announcers said "Manny Fernandez is under 5-11 in height." A caller said "That can't be." The announcer replied, "I stood in front of Fernandez and he's only 5-10 and a half or so."
  16. @Steve Sailer
    Basic measure of boyishness is Looking younger than your real years. Tom Cruise, DiCaprio, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Keanu Reeves, etc.

    In contrast, Ronald Reagan always looked his age, so his movie career fizzled out pretty fast as he aged.

    Movies want a hero who looks about 35.

    Cary Grant had the best of both worlds: he didn't look younger when he was less than 35 but he stayed looking 35ish forever.

    But most don't have what it takes to have Cary Grant's career.

    Jon Hamm has said he had difficulty getting roles prior to Mad Men because the preference was for boyish actors.

    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
    George Clooney and Russell Crow are two guys whose careers had a lot of fits and starts because, while good looking, they always came across as more mature and less boyish (Clooney was the more boyish of the two).

    Crowe's masculinity made Gladiator. Otherwise, it would've been very fey.
    , @syonredux

    Jon Hamm has said he had difficulty getting roles prior to Mad Men because the preference was for boyish actors.
     
    Which made him perfect for Mad Men; Don Draper, after all, was supposed to fit the late '50s-early '60s ideal of what a man was supposed to look like (Sean Connery, William Holden, etc).
  17. Does Ice Cube qualify as a classically trained actor? He’s had more than marginal success in Hollywood.

    There’s a bunch of other rappers that have transitioned to acting as well. Although I stopped paying attention to rap music when it died artistically in 1995. Like most other popular music with the invention of the internet and Napster.

    I’ve always thought that the death of music due to Napster was a prototypic iSteve topic. My hypothesis is that young males purchasing music was the source of the music industry’s data on quality. Once Napster allowed young males “open access” to new music, the industry needed to drastically change their model to remain viable.

    Mainly young girls (and some other demos that are no young males) still purchased music. Hence, the rise of musicians who don’t make much music but are celebrities. Like Puff Daddy, and a host of other rappers that make movies, clothes, TV shows but now music that anyone can name.

    • Replies: @David In TN
    Paul Kersey observed several years ago that Hollywood began to cast rappers in "family-friendly movies."
    , @Fred C Dobbs
    ".....Although I stopped paying attention to rap music when it died artistically in 1995....."

    I've been telling people that for.......25 years now.

    I recall early 90s. The GF and I used to go bust a move to.....Bust a Move.

    It was catchy. It was danceable. It was fun.

    FF to 2019 and listen to that rice rocket that pulls up next to you at the light on Chandler and Lankershim. The bass is a dirge, mixed in with high-hat and the "vocals" are nothing but a flat droning of words into a mic. It's not even music. It is literally the worst collection of sounds ever recorded.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZQQGX24Teg
  18. Thug life happened in the NFL—meaning the 1990s.

    Even guys from the 1980s could get screen time (e.g. the Super Bowl shuffle crew, specifically The Fridge). But in the 1990s—with rule changes and “thug life” and free agency—- black NFL players became a lot more ghetto and stupidly acted it on-screen. Deon Sanders was taunting other players and doing bush league mockery and it got him famous —and Deon wasn’t even thug, he was just acting more a fool. This attracted players who couldn’t even pretend to act civilized like OJ could.

    Meanwhile, white parents were preferring soccer to pop warner for their boys, to avoid those thugs and the injuries. And thus the white players who joined were either QBs or super-athletes (McCaffertys family) or ghetto themselves.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    I'll try not to sugar coat this, but Deon Sanders is an overrated asshole.
  19. @Achmed E. Newman
    "What's Eating Gilbert Grape?" is a really good, touching movie. Leo DeCaprio played not only a 13-y/o, but a retarded 13 y/o. Johnny Depp was his older brother who had to take care of about everything. Andy McDowell is in the movie, and I like her.

    It'd have been a good movie no matter who played anybody, as long at they could do acting decently. Who cares who these Hollywood people are? Steve, get out of LA for a while. It'll do you good. Fill up the Honda, and Head East, young man.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7jW8_2Us5c

    Leo DeCaprio played not only a 13-y/o, but a retarded 13 y/o

    Acting is not difficult if you play yourself.

    • LOL: fish
  20. @DCThrowback
    In discussing Andrew Luck's decision to leave the NFL at 29 (because of his injury history, most likely due to the really bad O-lines in front of him in the first half of his career), NFL Network's Peter Brandt mentioned on the Bill Simmons' podcast that we've had early retirements like this before (think Barry Sanders and Calvin Johnson of the Lions) and SPECIFICALLY mentioned James Brown retiring to...become a full time movie star.

    With Andrew Luck, no one is discussing something more nefarious: his father, who currently is in charge of the XFL for Vince McMahon.

    Luck could be retiring to get out of his contract…then in 1-2 years “unretire” and join the XFL for his dad, claiming he’s all healed and that the XFL won’t give him concussions like the NFL.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Why would that be nefarious?
    , @Barnard
    Not a chance. NFL money is much better than XFL would pay plus much more prestige. Luck has taken a beating and wants to retire.
  21. @Sean
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3d/45/3c/3d453cfed2b3e4fc4aa51228a0dc5601.jpg



    OJ Simpson's huge head made him look menacingly Bronze Age big (except in the frontal lobe department. (Michael Caine once said that if the female lead has a bigger head than the male their scenes won't look right). Maybe NFL players (at heights and weights inconceivable a few decades ago) are just too great in height and weight now to look right beside a normal sized actress.

    Joe Namath and Ann Margret
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riGumTYMhc4

    Not Samantha with OJ! NOOOOOO! OJ married Samantha, then he murdered her! Juice, how could you be so stupid! Oh, wait.

    • Replies: @bomag
    LOL

    I was waiting for an OJ reference.

    I'll mention Brian Bosworth, with the major film Stone Cold written for him as the lead; that may have been the peak of NFL players to film.
    , @Sean
    Big head and broad face? Keep moving


    https://sportshub.cbsistatic.com/i/r/2017/09/21/dd676ced-21b6-4461-8292-3ccf3b64dd9e/resize/670x377/54a505bb44aff1a341934db4beafa726/albert-haynesworth.jpg

    The 6'6'' 350lb Albert Haynesworth said he called the cops after his "extremely violent" ex, a former Lady Vols player, slam dunked his family jewels, and not in a good way.
  22. @Dave Pinsen
    Jon Hamm has said he had difficulty getting roles prior to Mad Men because the preference was for boyish actors.

    George Clooney and Russell Crow are two guys whose careers had a lot of fits and starts because, while good looking, they always came across as more mature and less boyish (Clooney was the more boyish of the two).

    Crowe’s masculinity made Gladiator. Otherwise, it would’ve been very fey.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    George Clooney might have been almost too good looking as a young man. When he was cast alongside Mark Wahlberg in the movie version of Sebastian Junger's bestseller, The Perfect Storm, Junger said Wahlberg looked like he could be a fisherman, but Clooney looked too handsome to be anything but a movie star.
  23. Rappers like the two ices took over, nowadays they mostly seem to be professional actors, often from abroad.

  24. @anonwatcher
    Question, Steve - if you had to put it into words what do you mean by "boyishness"? I agree with you, but was wondering if I had to explain it to someone else, I'm not quite sure what specific traits to point to (besides obviously looking like a younger boy).

    if you had to put it into words what do you mean by “boyishness”? I agree with you, but was wondering if I had to explain it to someone else, I’m not quite sure what specific traits to point to (besides obviously looking like a younger boy).

    Check with the State Correctional Institution at Laurel Highlands, Somerset, Penna. Inmate # KT2386 may be available for interviews.

    http://inmatelocator.cor.pa.gov/#/

    • LOL: bomag
  25. @R.G. Camara
    With Andrew Luck, no one is discussing something more nefarious: his father, who currently is in charge of the XFL for Vince McMahon.

    Luck could be retiring to get out of his contract...then in 1-2 years "unretire" and join the XFL for his dad, claiming he's all healed and that the XFL won't give him concussions like the NFL.

    Why would that be nefarious?

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    Yah, I agree. Also, Luck is a very serious person (no movie career for him). It is not in his nature to be devious. He was very interested in architecture, and, after following his passion for football, he is finally ready to enter the art realm with tons of money. Some young men just want to live a normal life...have a family. Architects are generally happy people.
    , @R.G. Camara
    Pretending to have a heartfelt retirement because you're too banged up only for the real reason to be that you want to jump to new league to help it rival the current league you're retiring from?

    How is that not nefarious? It's scummy behavior/lying, no matter how much you hate the NFL.

  26. For Predator they choose a guy like Carl Weathers. He and the rest of the cast had impressive physique.

    But these days you just give the actors a good nutrition-plan/personal trainers/supplements and 8 months later he will have the required physique.

    Take a look at Christian Bale in Batman or Ben Affleck in Batman v Superman and the movies they made the year before/after!

    With good camera-work they can even turn Tom Hardy into Bane.

    There is no need for former athletes anymore.

    I was very disappointed that they didn’t use Jason Momoa imperssive physique to make a faithful remake of Conan – the Barbarian. He is a good replacement for Arnold, but still in the end they relied on fast cuts, CGI and ninja-jumping.

  27. @Anonymous
    I suspect Current Hollywood doesn’t like the strong male image of an NFL player. Especially if he’s White.

    I dunno: Gronk (white) Wilson (Cafe’au lait) were pretty popular in Entourage.

    The following is soooooo insanely iStevie!: a bunch of nerds salivating over athletes:

    • Replies: @Dale Gribble
    I see Gronk and Tom Brady playing white villains in future films.
  28. @DCThrowback
    In discussing Andrew Luck's decision to leave the NFL at 29 (because of his injury history, most likely due to the really bad O-lines in front of him in the first half of his career), NFL Network's Peter Brandt mentioned on the Bill Simmons' podcast that we've had early retirements like this before (think Barry Sanders and Calvin Johnson of the Lions) and SPECIFICALLY mentioned James Brown retiring to...become a full time movie star.

    I heard just today that Jim Brown was filming a western and with shooting running late, into the football season, the team demanded his presence — so he told them, screw you. Thus his retirement

    • Replies: @David In TN
    Jim Brown wasn't filming a western in the summer of 1966, he was in The Dirty Dozen. Brown intended to play in 1966. It was the final year of his contract.

    With the movie running over schedule, Browns owner Art Modell demanded Brown come to training camp. Being Jim Brown, he promptly announced his retirement from football.

    I remember it at the time. It was a big shock for the world of sports. But if Modell hadn't made the ultimatum, Jim Brown would have come to camp (late) and played in 1966.
  29. @Steve Sailer
    Why would that be nefarious?

    Yah, I agree. Also, Luck is a very serious person (no movie career for him). It is not in his nature to be devious. He was very interested in architecture, and, after following his passion for football, he is finally ready to enter the art realm with tons of money. Some young men just want to live a normal life…have a family. Architects are generally happy people.

    • Replies: @R.G. Camara

    It is not in his nature to be devious
     
    .

    Citation needed.

    Seriously, why do you believe anything a pro athlete says these days?

    He was very interested in architecture, and, after following his passion for football, he is finally ready to enter the art realm with tons of money. Some young men just want to live a normal life…have a family. Architects are generally happy people.
     
    I'm sure his dad running the XFL is just weird coincidence.
    , @Kyle
    He’s not going to make any money in architecture. Andrew luck is a punk for retiring a week before the regular season. If he had retired the day after the end of last season I wouldn’t have called him that, but waiting until he did is a huge punk move. Why did he even attend the final pre season game? Quitting before the final preseason game would have allowed him to save face when the crowd booed him. Sticking it out for the final preseason game is the most try-hard, millennial thing ever. He’s only a year older than I am and he looks to be about 40 and nearly bald. Judging by looks, he probably doesn’t eat very well and doesn’t take care of his body, so a long career was never meant to be for him.
  30. @Charles Erwin Wilson 3
    Not Samantha with OJ! NOOOOOO! OJ married Samantha, then he murdered her! Juice, how could you be so stupid! Oh, wait.

    LOL

    I was waiting for an OJ reference.

    I’ll mention Brian Bosworth, with the major film Stone Cold written for him as the lead; that may have been the peak of NFL players to film.

    • Replies: @Barnard
    Bosworth is currently appearing as a Highway Patrolman in Dr. Pepper commercials during college football games
  31. @DCThrowback
    In discussing Andrew Luck's decision to leave the NFL at 29 (because of his injury history, most likely due to the really bad O-lines in front of him in the first half of his career), NFL Network's Peter Brandt mentioned on the Bill Simmons' podcast that we've had early retirements like this before (think Barry Sanders and Calvin Johnson of the Lions) and SPECIFICALLY mentioned James Brown retiring to...become a full time movie star.

    James Brown was really good as an action star in 2 of favorite movies of that era, Dirty Dozen and Ice Station Zebra

    • Replies: @Simply Simon
    Larry, if you say "James" Brown, most people acquainted with college and pro football will not know whom you are talking about. It was and is, Jim Brown.
  32. Leroy Ellis and several other LA Lakers suited up to play plus-sized aliens in a 1964 Outer Limits episode. I don’t think they quit their day jobs

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/223118554880

    • Replies: @Ron Mexico
    Bill Laimbeer was a Slestak on Land of the Lost. Thankfully for the Bad Boys Pistons he chose to pursue bball.
  33. This has little to do with the thread but in Once Upon A Time In Hollywood when they showed the Joe Namath movie trailer when Sharon Tate went to the movies, that was flippin sweet. I yelled out “That’s Joe Namath!” before they even showed his name.

  34. anonymous[400] • Disclaimer says:

    wwebd said – The Venn diagram between the ten percent or so of men who really really want top-quality pussy (you would be surprised at how many men are willing to settle for less) and the men who have the genetics to be minimally successful at football (probably only 20 percent of men are going to be fat enough or large enough to have any chance at being successful at actual competitive football) will show you all you need to know about this subject (this subject being: Hollywood, a disgusting place, and its connection to people who play football to score quality pussy).

    Look I don’t blame them – who among us can easily imagine being a male and not wanting the highest quality pussy – but I feel sorry for most of them and for most of the poor women who they wind up, after a couple years, being repulsive to, quite often. Not always, but more often than you would imagine ….

    Seriously, you do not want to understand this world as well as I do, I sometimes feel like one of those bouncers at a good night club who REALLY REALLY does not want that pathetic punk to challenge him.

    Or maybe I am a troll (I am not, I have had several girlfriends who were hotter than the average NFL cheerleader, and a fortiori hotter than the average college cheerleader),or maybe I know what I am talking about. You decide. I don’t care. Understanding this world is your job, not mine.

    Well, God loves us all, and the sins of lustful greediness are not the worst of sins. They are, of course, pretty bad sins, but they are easily repented of, because we all get older and less attractive, and more aware of what counts in life. I know many people who have gone through that cycle.

    The only important thing in life is to be a good person who cares about other people.

    Proverbs 8.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    If you want hours of intellectual enjoyment, google wwebd and unz.

    The guys in charge of Google do not mess with me, and they never will.
    Moab is my washpot (just trying to make you laugh)

    As always, thanks for reading.
  35. Could it be because professional actors are generally in much better shape nowadays, between personal coaches, better diet advice, and artificial chemical assistance? (Compare superheroes then and now, such as Christopher Reeve and Henry Cavill, or Adam West and Christian Bale). Actors have had a half-century or so to let pro athletes act as human guinea pigs for all manner of risky new supplements and fitness fads; now that there’s a rough consensus as to what works (and what can kill you), actors can bulk up sufficiently to ruin the ballers’ competitive advantage.

  36. @Anonymous
    I suspect Current Hollywood doesn’t like the strong male image of an NFL player. Especially if he’s White.

    Are there any Whites left in the NFL? It’s worse than the NBA or SEC football.

  37. @Achmed E. Newman
    "What's Eating Gilbert Grape?" is a really good, touching movie. Leo DeCaprio played not only a 13-y/o, but a retarded 13 y/o. Johnny Depp was his older brother who had to take care of about everything. Andy McDowell is in the movie, and I like her.

    It'd have been a good movie no matter who played anybody, as long at they could do acting decently. Who cares who these Hollywood people are? Steve, get out of LA for a while. It'll do you good. Fill up the Honda, and Head East, young man.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7jW8_2Us5c

    ““What’s Eating Gilbert Grape?” is a really good, touching movie. ”

    Disagree. It is a tired and cynical portrayal of rural white America, as seen through the eyes of the woke teenage hero who must endure his stereotypical trailer trash family.

  38. @Achmed E. Newman
    "What's Eating Gilbert Grape?" is a really good, touching movie. Leo DeCaprio played not only a 13-y/o, but a retarded 13 y/o. Johnny Depp was his older brother who had to take care of about everything. Andy McDowell is in the movie, and I like her.

    It'd have been a good movie no matter who played anybody, as long at they could do acting decently. Who cares who these Hollywood people are? Steve, get out of LA for a while. It'll do you good. Fill up the Honda, and Head East, young man.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7jW8_2Us5c

    “Leo DeCaprio played not only a 13-y/o, but a retarded 13 y/o. “

    Yeah, he definitely went full retard for that role. Which explains why he didn’t win.

  39. @DCThrowback
    In discussing Andrew Luck's decision to leave the NFL at 29 (because of his injury history, most likely due to the really bad O-lines in front of him in the first half of his career), NFL Network's Peter Brandt mentioned on the Bill Simmons' podcast that we've had early retirements like this before (think Barry Sanders and Calvin Johnson of the Lions) and SPECIFICALLY mentioned James Brown retiring to...become a full time movie star.

    James Brown – singer/dancer

    Jim Brown – football/lacrosse/movies

  40. @anonwatcher
    Question, Steve - if you had to put it into words what do you mean by "boyishness"? I agree with you, but was wondering if I had to explain it to someone else, I'm not quite sure what specific traits to point to (besides obviously looking like a younger boy).

    Question, Steve – if you had to put it into words what do you mean by “boyishness”?

    None of these actors would ever be called “boyish”; they are men:

    William Holden

    Charlton Heston

    Jack Palance

    Sean Connery

    Burt Lancaster

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    Your #4 got all girly when hectoring his countrymen into handing over their pistols to "save just one life". For a group called "Snowdrop". The spot he did for them to be shown in cinemas doesn't appear to be online anywhere.


    Bond is a man, but doesn't think you are. At least your #2 trusted his fellow citizens.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/007-under-fire-for-his-anti-gun-stance-1266583.html

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12314415.snowdrop-advert-protest-fails/

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12333957.connery-backs-ban-on-guns/
  41. “Woody Strode, Merlin Olsen, Bernie Casey, Fred Dryer, and, perhaps last, Terry Crews.”

    How can you forget Carl Weathers, Alex Karras, and Ed O’Neil??? I know they weren’t Rams but come on.

  42. anon[126] • Disclaimer says:

    NFL players tend to be tall. Taller men — at least the type that play in the NFL — tend to fill out in the face when they hit their 30’s. And there is only so much kybella injections can do. Also consider the subtle aspect where taller men tend to be photographed from a lower angle, making their face appear less angular. Think Vince Vaughn or Chris Pratt.

    Movieplex flicks also increasingly rely on a funhouse mirror version of masculinity — either not too threatening for tweens, or over-the-top stylized for overseas audiences. The more subtle roles require acting ability, which your NFL player doesn’t have. I could see Peyton Manning in a buddy comedy, but I’m guessing commercials pay much more by the hour.

  43. @Dave Pinsen
    Jon Hamm has said he had difficulty getting roles prior to Mad Men because the preference was for boyish actors.

    Jon Hamm has said he had difficulty getting roles prior to Mad Men because the preference was for boyish actors.

    Which made him perfect for Mad Men; Don Draper, after all, was supposed to fit the late ’50s-early ’60s ideal of what a man was supposed to look like (Sean Connery, William Holden, etc).

    • Replies: @anon
    Don't mean to start a cat fight, but ... William Holden? I happened to watch Executive Suite yesterday on TCM (talk about Man Men) and Holden looked particularly hollow-chested next to guys like Walter Pidgeon and even some of the older, old time playboy type execs. From the same period, Robert Mitchum could have picked him up and snapped him in half (even being himself what Family Guy calls an 'out of shape in shape 50s guy').

    Not questioning his acting, sure he's a nice guy too, but you can't group him with Jon Hamm and Sean Connery as a male figure. Connery could be Vincent Price and Holden Clifton Webb in Laura. (Yes, young Vincent Price, although Dana Andrews does punch him into breathlessness near the end).
  44. @Steve Sailer
    Why would that be nefarious?

    Pretending to have a heartfelt retirement because you’re too banged up only for the real reason to be that you want to jump to new league to help it rival the current league you’re retiring from?

    How is that not nefarious? It’s scummy behavior/lying, no matter how much you hate the NFL.

  45. @Lagertha
    Yah, I agree. Also, Luck is a very serious person (no movie career for him). It is not in his nature to be devious. He was very interested in architecture, and, after following his passion for football, he is finally ready to enter the art realm with tons of money. Some young men just want to live a normal life...have a family. Architects are generally happy people.

    It is not in his nature to be devious

    .

    Citation needed.

    Seriously, why do you believe anything a pro athlete says these days?

    He was very interested in architecture, and, after following his passion for football, he is finally ready to enter the art realm with tons of money. Some young men just want to live a normal life…have a family. Architects are generally happy people.

    I’m sure his dad running the XFL is just weird coincidence.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    Hahaaaa - I can tell you were never an athlete! - you don't get it! You simply do not understand sport!

    Luck was lucky to be graduated from Stanford. If he was not an excellent football player, he may not have been accepted to SU in the first place...but he was also, an excellent student (double whamy).

    So, he goes back to his thoughts a couple of days ago, when he remembered when he was 15 and a freshmen in HS,....hmmmm.... he may very well decide: I accomplished the athletic part.

  46. I think you don’t see NFL becoming actors today since Hollywood depends on global box office these days and most NFL players, even its stars, are not really known outside America

  47. Boyishness in hollywood is selected because gay pedophiles. Same reason why high fashion models all look like boys too.

    As to NFL players, how about this theory: in today’s hollywood practically nobody is an NFL fan. Hollywood people back in the day wanted to get NFL guys into movies because they were football fans and wanted to hang out with them.

  48. The only role I think DiCaprio has played well was Catch Me If You Can . That was because he looked youthful enough to play a teenager
    I disagree with Steve’s assertion that there are more actors today than yesteryear.
    Go back to the sixties when there were Newman, Redford, McQueen, Heston ..
    Just watch the Star Trek TOS episodes and you see scores of good actors just guesting for a single episode. Nothing like that around today

    • Agree: Travis
    • Replies: @Known Fact
    Or the murderer-of-the-week on Columbo. If you didn't have your own series at the moment you had to play the villainous guest star on someone else's. So 1970s TV was awash in wonderfully smug heavies like Shatner, Robert Vaughn, Robert Culp and Lee Grant. Vic Morrow was particularly repulsive
  49. LeBron James, who looked 30 when he was 16-years-old, wants to become a big deal in Hollywood (one reason he’s currently with the Los Angeles Lakers, even though it’s easier to get to the NBA finals playing in the Eastern Conference)

    I wonder if he’s talked to Shaq about that? Shaq went to LA in a boog hoopla and released Kazaam and Steel right at the same time and also started mouthing off BY NAME about all the big name LA women he was banging—and then had to retreat and apologize to a few (Cindy Crawford made him retract it), and Kazaam and Steel bombed and his rap career went kaput.

    It took a few years for Shaq to shake off the LA hangover and concentrate on, ya know, winning basketball games, but to his credit, Shaq realized he’d better concentrate on basketball and let all the other nonsense go to the back burner, and he went back to winning on the court. He pretty much kept the other stuff as side gigs until his playing career was over, and then went back to media. where’s he’s enjoyed a lot of success in hosting and doing commercials and such.

    In short, LeBron should talk to Shaq. You can’t be a Hollywood player and a pro sports star at the same time, especially in a place as distracting as LA. Lebron should finish his career on a high note and not drift into late-career veteran malaise while he tries to get a sitcom on the side. There’s plenty of time for all that after he’s done—LeBron, like Shaq, will still be a big name after he retires.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Right. When Shaq came out to play for the Lakers he was suddenly all business and won three straight NBA titles. I was surprised and impressed.
    , @William Badwhite
    I don't think LeBron will make much of himself there.

    Shaq has a natural good-naturedness that comes across and makes him personable. LeBron is a just another surly, tattooed black.
  50. @kanye's doppelganger
    Up through the 60's of some NFL/AFL players made more money doing the professional wrestling than in football, Wahoo McDaniel and Dory Funk being good examples (love those names!). They transitioned to wrestling full-time right before the big football money hit.

    Up through the 60’s of some NFL/AFL players made more money doing the professional wrestling than in football, Wahoo McDaniel and Dory Funk being good examples (love those names!).

    My favorites in this vein were McDaniel contemporary Ernie Ladd, and talented 70s/80s tight end Russ Francis.

  51. @anonymous
    wwebd said - The Venn diagram between the ten percent or so of men who really really want top-quality pussy (you would be surprised at how many men are willing to settle for less) and the men who have the genetics to be minimally successful at football (probably only 20 percent of men are going to be fat enough or large enough to have any chance at being successful at actual competitive football) will show you all you need to know about this subject (this subject being: Hollywood, a disgusting place, and its connection to people who play football to score quality pussy).


    Look I don't blame them - who among us can easily imagine being a male and not wanting the highest quality pussy - but I feel sorry for most of them and for most of the poor women who they wind up, after a couple years, being repulsive to, quite often. Not always, but more often than you would imagine ....

    Seriously, you do not want to understand this world as well as I do, I sometimes feel like one of those bouncers at a good night club who REALLY REALLY does not want that pathetic punk to challenge him.

    Or maybe I am a troll (I am not, I have had several girlfriends who were hotter than the average NFL cheerleader, and a fortiori hotter than the average college cheerleader),or maybe I know what I am talking about. You decide. I don't care. Understanding this world is your job, not mine.

    Well, God loves us all, and the sins of lustful greediness are not the worst of sins. They are, of course, pretty bad sins, but they are easily repented of, because we all get older and less attractive, and more aware of what counts in life. I know many people who have gone through that cycle.

    The only important thing in life is to be a good person who cares about other people.

    Proverbs 8.

    If you want hours of intellectual enjoyment, google wwebd and unz.

    The guys in charge of Google do not mess with me, and they never will.
    Moab is my washpot (just trying to make you laugh)

    As always, thanks for reading.

  52. @R.G. Camara
    With Andrew Luck, no one is discussing something more nefarious: his father, who currently is in charge of the XFL for Vince McMahon.

    Luck could be retiring to get out of his contract...then in 1-2 years "unretire" and join the XFL for his dad, claiming he's all healed and that the XFL won't give him concussions like the NFL.

    Not a chance. NFL money is much better than XFL would pay plus much more prestige. Luck has taken a beating and wants to retire.

  53. @Charles Erwin Wilson 3
    Not Samantha with OJ! NOOOOOO! OJ married Samantha, then he murdered her! Juice, how could you be so stupid! Oh, wait.

    Big head and broad face? Keep moving

    The 6’6” 350lb Albert Haynesworth said he called the cops after his “extremely violent” ex, a former Lady Vols player, slam dunked his family jewels, and not in a good way.

  54. @bomag
    LOL

    I was waiting for an OJ reference.

    I'll mention Brian Bosworth, with the major film Stone Cold written for him as the lead; that may have been the peak of NFL players to film.

    Bosworth is currently appearing as a Highway Patrolman in Dr. Pepper commercials during college football games

  55. @DCThrowback
    In discussing Andrew Luck's decision to leave the NFL at 29 (because of his injury history, most likely due to the really bad O-lines in front of him in the first half of his career), NFL Network's Peter Brandt mentioned on the Bill Simmons' podcast that we've had early retirements like this before (think Barry Sanders and Calvin Johnson of the Lions) and SPECIFICALLY mentioned James Brown retiring to...become a full time movie star.

    He’s never been known to the public as James Brown, although his birth name is James Nathaniel Brown. For most of his football career, he was called “Jimmy Brown.” From 1964-65 and after leaving football for the movies, he was “Jim Brown.”

    Jim Brown was the most successful ex-athlete ever in movies at the time. He was an A-List performer for about four years. Then audiences seemed to get tired of him and he declined as a box office attraction.

  56. Miller Lite changed its advertising campaign and killed off the talent pipeline.

    C-grade acting for C-grade phoned-in sitcoms and other television series died out with runaway television production, the rise of Vancouver, cable television, reality television and subsidies for television production outside of the TMZ. The golden age of easy money and bad television (with the notable exception of The Rockford Files) in LA is gone and it’s never coming back.

  57. @Anon7
    It’s all about equality, women are just as powerful as men, that’s PC doctrine. Movies are a visual medium, women must be presented as approximately equal in height.

    How can you do that with male actors that are 6’5” and 275 pounds? You can’t. So ideally you cast 95th percentile women and 40th percentile men. Or put 50th percentile women in 4 inch heels next to 50th percentile men.
    .

    I’ve noticed taller women generally keep their figure better than the shorties.

  58. @fish

    Maybe NFL players (at heights and weights inconceivable a few decades ago) are just too great in height and weight now to look right beside a normal sized actress.
     
    Manny Fernandez played defensive Tackle for the "Perfect Season Miami Dolphins at 6' 2", 225 lbs. He was listed larger (but not much) in NFL and Miami Dolphin records. These days that's cornerback/receiver/punter sized.

    After Super Bowl VII, in which the Dolphins beat the Redskins, I listened to a sports talk show discussing the game. One of the announcers said “Manny Fernandez is under 5-11 in height.” A caller said “That can’t be.” The announcer replied, “I stood in front of Fernandez and he’s only 5-10 and a half or so.”

  59. @Redman
    Does Ice Cube qualify as a classically trained actor? He’s had more than marginal success in Hollywood.

    There’s a bunch of other rappers that have transitioned to acting as well. Although I stopped paying attention to rap music when it died artistically in 1995. Like most other popular music with the invention of the internet and Napster.

    I’ve always thought that the death of music due to Napster was a prototypic iSteve topic. My hypothesis is that young males purchasing music was the source of the music industry’s data on quality. Once Napster allowed young males “open access” to new music, the industry needed to drastically change their model to remain viable.

    Mainly young girls (and some other demos that are no young males) still purchased music. Hence, the rise of musicians who don’t make much music but are celebrities. Like Puff Daddy, and a host of other rappers that make movies, clothes, TV shows but now music that anyone can name.

    Paul Kersey observed several years ago that Hollywood began to cast rappers in “family-friendly movies.”

  60. Has everybody forgotten Fred Williamson?

    Black Caesar — he comes to bury YOU!

    • Replies: @T.I.S.
    I'm glad you brought up Fred Williamson. He didn't have the Rams connection, and wasn't as big a name, but has had an interesting career. Got into producing pretty early on and ended up directing quite a few of his movies. Ended up doing a lot of straight-to-video stuff, but some fun movies. And like a good, macho action hero should, he endorsed Trump, which he caught a little flak for.
  61. @Known Fact
    I heard just today that Jim Brown was filming a western and with shooting running late, into the football season, the team demanded his presence -- so he told them, screw you. Thus his retirement

    Jim Brown wasn’t filming a western in the summer of 1966, he was in The Dirty Dozen. Brown intended to play in 1966. It was the final year of his contract.

    With the movie running over schedule, Browns owner Art Modell demanded Brown come to training camp. Being Jim Brown, he promptly announced his retirement from football.

    I remember it at the time. It was a big shock for the world of sports. But if Modell hadn’t made the ultimatum, Jim Brown would have come to camp (late) and played in 1966.

    • Replies: @Known Fact
    Well, it was western Europe!
  62. @David In TN
    Jim Brown wasn't filming a western in the summer of 1966, he was in The Dirty Dozen. Brown intended to play in 1966. It was the final year of his contract.

    With the movie running over schedule, Browns owner Art Modell demanded Brown come to training camp. Being Jim Brown, he promptly announced his retirement from football.

    I remember it at the time. It was a big shock for the world of sports. But if Modell hadn't made the ultimatum, Jim Brown would have come to camp (late) and played in 1966.

    Well, it was western Europe!

  63. Anonymous[151] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Basic measure of boyishness is Looking younger than your real years. Tom Cruise, DiCaprio, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Keanu Reeves, etc.

    In contrast, Ronald Reagan always looked his age, so his movie career fizzled out pretty fast as he aged.

    Movies want a hero who looks about 35.

    Cary Grant had the best of both worlds: he didn't look younger when he was less than 35 but he stayed looking 35ish forever.

    But most don't have what it takes to have Cary Grant's career.

    Yeah, but Keanu Reeves at age 54 finally looks like he is 35 years old. He finally looks like a man and not a boy(and what a man!- no homo). Have you watched the John Wick films? He has apparently been offered some $75 mil to reprise his role as the legendary hitman who just can’t forgive and forget for a fourth time. John Wick: Parabellum actally beat Avengers: Endgame at the box office for 2 weeks in a row. Not bad for a relatively small budget film.

    Of course, when it comes to playing the role of John Wick, Reeve’s absurdly symmetrical face, black hair and semi-Asiatic eyes helps: he truly looks like an unstoppable demon from some hell hole in eastern Europe.

    As for Carey Grant, he is one of the most overrated stars ever. I don’t undrrstand why you hold him in such high regard. Sure, he was classically handsome, but the guy was boring and corny and only made those cheesy romantic films. He had no distinctive personality, just a boring square white guy from his time. Even his looks were generic. Sure, he was handsome, but there was nothing distinctive about his handsomeness. Unlike actors like Keanu Reeves, Jason Statham, Benedict Cumberbatch, George Clooney, who are all not only handsome but have a distinctive look to their features. Grant just looked like a very handsome man, but his features were not exotic or remarkable. Also, Grant was a notorious bisexual(yes, bisexual men DO exist), so I don’t understand why a conservative who worships heterosexuality would admire him so much.

  64. Bob Uecker has enjoyed a bit of a renaissance with the success of the Brewers, but 35 years ago he had his own sitcom for 6 years. I wonder how they managed that logistically. Maybe they taped from October through March, as the Brewers didn’t come close to making the playoffs then. They had a 25-year stretch of not qualifying (83-07).

  65. Since the gays came out in the open. Per John Travolta, you pretty much have to engage in gay prostitution to get a male role in Hollywood these days. Maybe football players don’t play that.

  66. @R.G. Camara

    It is not in his nature to be devious
     
    .

    Citation needed.

    Seriously, why do you believe anything a pro athlete says these days?

    He was very interested in architecture, and, after following his passion for football, he is finally ready to enter the art realm with tons of money. Some young men just want to live a normal life…have a family. Architects are generally happy people.
     
    I'm sure his dad running the XFL is just weird coincidence.

    Hahaaaa – I can tell you were never an athlete! – you don’t get it! You simply do not understand sport!

    Luck was lucky to be graduated from Stanford. If he was not an excellent football player, he may not have been accepted to SU in the first place…but he was also, an excellent student (double whamy).

    So, he goes back to his thoughts a couple of days ago, when he remembered when he was 15 and a freshmen in HS,….hmmmm…. he may very well decide: I accomplished the athletic part.

    • Replies: @black sea
    Andrew Luck's Wonderlic score was 37, which is supposedly around 132 IQ. Plenty smart enough for Stanford, where he studied architectural design -- generally a very time-consuming major and not one recommended by the coaching staff, I'm sure.
    , @R.G. Camara
    lol. I love when sad benchwarmers like yourself who mainline ESPN as a substitute for a personality pretend you "know" how a certain celebrity athlete is. You're quite pathetic in your "true knowledge" of who they are. I mean, you just embarrassed yourself openly by stating that Luck was too stupid to be a Stanford grad, and black sea here just smacked you around with facts. You're such a pathetic mark.

    So hahaha on your claims about what you "know" about Luck and his personality. He'll be working in the XFL within 3 years, if not sooner.

    And, not it matters, but unlike you, little mama's boy, I played tons of organized sports in my youth, including quite many violent ones, including the one Andrew Luck played (not in the NFL, of course)---you know, the kinds of sports you could never play because you're just a benchwarming mama's boy.

  67. anon[724] • Disclaimer says:

    “LeBron James … wants to become a big deal in Hollywood … He’s not bad … but most of recent history is against him.”

    Looks aside, he’s going to have a hard go of it. Maybe he can land a minor Marvel role or perhaps a bit part in a B list franchise like the Fast and the Furious, but outside of that, I don’t see what’s available to him. Hollywood doesn’t make good comedies anymore, certainly not the politically incorrect kind young kids and black men like to watch (In Living Color from the 1990s or Scary Movie from the early 2000s). So, he won’t find anything there. Hollywood also doesn’t make nearly as many masculine action movies as they once did; the ones they do make usually have a legacy actor like Stallone or Willis. So, he’ll come up empty there, too. Guys like Will Smith hit it big back when white men who like masculine things were allowed to make their own movies for their own demographic, and back when franchises and sequels weren’t crowding out new properties. That isn’t Hollywood anymore.

    A masculine black man like Lebron James doesn’t fit into Hollywood like he would have twenty years ago, even if there’s a market for him. Hollywood’s extreme wokeness is nearly all pervasive now. Traditionally male Star Wars currently has an unlikable female protagonist; most of the male characters in the series are sidelined or disrespected. James Bond has been recast as a black woman. Thor has been recast as a tiny white female. The new Terminator features an all female protagonist cast; they retconned John Connor out of the lore and replaced him with a girl; and the new female protagonist Terminator is androgynous. Yay. On television, Star Trek: Discovery has an obnoxious female lead who disrespects the male cast; white male characters are incompetent, gay (literally), in make-up, or potentially not-sees (Klingons). The CW’s Supergirl is woke fan fic, basically; there’s a scene in this show where Superman gushes to Supergirl that she’s stronger than he’ll ever be. Barf. Who’s writing this stuff? Well …

    Just take a look at the writing room of Star Trek: TNG from the late 80s/early 90s and compare it with a picture of the writing room of Star Trek: Discovery (or worse, the new Netflix Witcher show). The change is stark. New writers are disproportionately female, disproportionately POC (talent-wise), more likely to be effeminate if they’re also a white male, and they are nearly all extremely woke politically. Those are the people running Hollywood now. That’s why you don’t get any good action/sci-fi movies like we had in the past: Predator, Aliens, Terminator 2, etc. That’s why it’s rare to see a decent sci-fi show like Star Trek: TNG or Stargate SG-1. It’s all divisive, hateful, out-of-touch trash now because the medium talents writing this stuff are all divisive, hateful, out-of-touch people themselves. They don’t like the genre they are writing for, and they certainly don’t know how to appeal to an audience outside of their LA bubble. Thus, woke Doctor Who, woke Star Trek, woke Star Wars, woke Lost in Space, woke Witcher, woke James Bond, woke Supergirl, woke Buffy remake … etc.

    Most of the best roles guys like Will Smith and Denzel Washington had were written by or originated from white men. That group is being sidelined, so ironically, masculine black men are being sidelined, too. Toxic diversity efforts have benefited liberal white women and liberal female POC, disproportionately lesbian, at the expense of straight men of all races. That’s why the movie Deadpool, an R-rated flick featuring a smart-mouthed white heterosexual, was such a surprise hit. It’s also why female-oriented movies like Crazy Rich Asians and Fifty Shades of Grey were surprise hits: the fringe groups running the show aren’t interested in traditional things normal audiences want anymore. Men sometimes like crude things, explosions, being the man, and getting the girl. Women overwhelmingly don’t label themselves as feminists, and they don’t watch woke trash; their fantasies revolve around traditional things like heterosexual relationships, family, friends, marriage, and getting desirable rich guys. But in Hollywood, you don’t see those groups catered to much anymore, not like it used to be.

    All things considered, where does Lebron James fit into this situation? Maybe if he gets lucky he can get the lead in the next Blade movie. Considering his extreme height and the subject material, I think he might do well in that role if they make the character dark and physically imposing, reticent but prone to violence when necessary. Worked for Arnold.

  68. Steve: did you consider Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson, Pretty big star at the college level who then went to wrestling instead of professional football?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I think The Rock looked like he was going to be a college star at U. of Miami when it was on top of the world but then blew out his knee or something.
  69. I suppose it’s the kind of roles too. The Rock and Dave Bautista have become hollywood stars without demonstrating much of a serious acting range, but the type of roles is very niche.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Brad Pitt, for example, could just play Cliff Booth over and over and make a lot of money, but he often tries to challenge himself, sometimes with success (like his Irish Traveler in "Snatch") and sometimes without.
  70. @syonredux

    Question, Steve – if you had to put it into words what do you mean by “boyishness”?
     
    None of these actors would ever be called "boyish"; they are men:

    William Holden

    http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large/the-bridges-at-toko-ri-william-holden-everett.jpg

    Charlton Heston


    https://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/images/charlton-heston-3.jpg


    Jack Palance



    https://www.doctormacro.com/Images/Palance,%20Jack/Palance,%20Jack_01.jpg


    Sean Connery


    http://abcnews.go.com/images/Entertainment/GTY-sean-connery-james-bond-goldfinger-jt-170116.jpg


    Burt Lancaster



    https://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/images/burt-lancaster-5.jpg

    Your #4 got all girly when hectoring his countrymen into handing over their pistols to “save just one life”. For a group called “Snowdrop”. The spot he did for them to be shown in cinemas doesn’t appear to be online anywhere.

    Bond is a man, but doesn’t think you are. At least your #2 trusted his fellow citizens.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/007-under-fire-for-his-anti-gun-stance-1266583.html

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12314415.snowdrop-advert-protest-fails/

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12333957.connery-backs-ban-on-guns/

  71. @R.G. Camara
    George Clooney and Russell Crow are two guys whose careers had a lot of fits and starts because, while good looking, they always came across as more mature and less boyish (Clooney was the more boyish of the two).

    Crowe's masculinity made Gladiator. Otherwise, it would've been very fey.

    George Clooney might have been almost too good looking as a young man. When he was cast alongside Mark Wahlberg in the movie version of Sebastian Junger’s bestseller, The Perfect Storm, Junger said Wahlberg looked like he could be a fisherman, but Clooney looked too handsome to be anything but a movie star.

  72. @Altai
    I suppose it's the kind of roles too. The Rock and Dave Bautista have become hollywood stars without demonstrating much of a serious acting range, but the type of roles is very niche.

    Brad Pitt, for example, could just play Cliff Booth over and over and make a lot of money, but he often tries to challenge himself, sometimes with success (like his Irish Traveler in “Snatch”) and sometimes without.

    • Agree: Bardon Kaldian
  73. @Dale Gribble
    Steve: did you consider Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, Pretty big star at the college level who then went to wrestling instead of professional football?

    I think The Rock looked like he was going to be a college star at U. of Miami when it was on top of the world but then blew out his knee or something.

    • Replies: @black sea
    What happened was that Warren Sapp arrived, and informed The Rock that he would be taking over as starter, which very quickly transpired.
  74. @Lagertha
    Hahaaaa - I can tell you were never an athlete! - you don't get it! You simply do not understand sport!

    Luck was lucky to be graduated from Stanford. If he was not an excellent football player, he may not have been accepted to SU in the first place...but he was also, an excellent student (double whamy).

    So, he goes back to his thoughts a couple of days ago, when he remembered when he was 15 and a freshmen in HS,....hmmmm.... he may very well decide: I accomplished the athletic part.

    Andrew Luck’s Wonderlic score was 37, which is supposedly around 132 IQ. Plenty smart enough for Stanford, where he studied architectural design — generally a very time-consuming major and not one recommended by the coaching staff, I’m sure.

  75. @Steve Sailer
    I think The Rock looked like he was going to be a college star at U. of Miami when it was on top of the world but then blew out his knee or something.

    What happened was that Warren Sapp arrived, and informed The Rock that he would be taking over as starter, which very quickly transpired.

    • Replies: @Fred C Dobbs
    I used to watch a fair amount of CFB then, and I certainly don't recall Dwayne Johnson.

    You HAVE to be good to get a free ride to Miami, but apart from that I think he was just "a guy" at The U.
  76. @R.G. Camara

    LeBron James, who looked 30 when he was 16-years-old, wants to become a big deal in Hollywood (one reason he’s currently with the Los Angeles Lakers, even though it’s easier to get to the NBA finals playing in the Eastern Conference)
     
    I wonder if he's talked to Shaq about that? Shaq went to LA in a boog hoopla and released Kazaam and Steel right at the same time and also started mouthing off BY NAME about all the big name LA women he was banging---and then had to retreat and apologize to a few (Cindy Crawford made him retract it), and Kazaam and Steel bombed and his rap career went kaput.

    It took a few years for Shaq to shake off the LA hangover and concentrate on, ya know, winning basketball games, but to his credit, Shaq realized he'd better concentrate on basketball and let all the other nonsense go to the back burner, and he went back to winning on the court. He pretty much kept the other stuff as side gigs until his playing career was over, and then went back to media. where's he's enjoyed a lot of success in hosting and doing commercials and such.

    In short, LeBron should talk to Shaq. You can't be a Hollywood player and a pro sports star at the same time, especially in a place as distracting as LA. Lebron should finish his career on a high note and not drift into late-career veteran malaise while he tries to get a sitcom on the side. There's plenty of time for all that after he's done---LeBron, like Shaq, will still be a big name after he retires.

    Right. When Shaq came out to play for the Lakers he was suddenly all business and won three straight NBA titles. I was surprised and impressed.

  77. @Known Fact
    Has everybody forgotten Fred Williamson?

    https://youtu.be/gi7gDE1Ny6g

    Black Caesar -- he comes to bury YOU!

    I’m glad you brought up Fred Williamson. He didn’t have the Rams connection, and wasn’t as big a name, but has had an interesting career. Got into producing pretty early on and ended up directing quite a few of his movies. Ended up doing a lot of straight-to-video stuff, but some fun movies. And like a good, macho action hero should, he endorsed Trump, which he caught a little flak for.

  78. @Lagertha
    Yah, I agree. Also, Luck is a very serious person (no movie career for him). It is not in his nature to be devious. He was very interested in architecture, and, after following his passion for football, he is finally ready to enter the art realm with tons of money. Some young men just want to live a normal life...have a family. Architects are generally happy people.

    He’s not going to make any money in architecture. Andrew luck is a punk for retiring a week before the regular season. If he had retired the day after the end of last season I wouldn’t have called him that, but waiting until he did is a huge punk move. Why did he even attend the final pre season game? Quitting before the final preseason game would have allowed him to save face when the crowd booed him. Sticking it out for the final preseason game is the most try-hard, millennial thing ever. He’s only a year older than I am and he looks to be about 40 and nearly bald. Judging by looks, he probably doesn’t eat very well and doesn’t take care of his body, so a long career was never meant to be for him.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    Yes, agree it was an obnoxious move to quit now. Gronk had about 9 surgeries,...so quitting was already discussed last February....by speculators. Gronk may just come back, late, for one more SB but Luck will be forgotten.
  79. Is it out of the realm of possibility that boyishness is selected for because that’s what women are attracted to?

  80. @Lagertha
    I dunno: Gronk (white) Wilson (Cafe'au lait) were pretty popular in Entourage.

    The following is soooooo insanely iStevie!: a bunch of nerds salivating over athletes:

    https://youtu.be/oqwHDuiDIJc

    I see Gronk and Tom Brady playing white villains in future films.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    No, they are forever, Golden Guys as far as the 17-50+ year-old white guys (the ones that are 98% of the viewers of football) who love 'em. Tom, especially, has a beautiful wife and adorable kids....and no creepy scandals - all guys dream about having that. These same guys are thrilled that Gronk finally has a gf and seems to be giving up the party life. No white guys with their gf's or wives will go and pay to see a movie where their generation's John Wayne will be portrayed as a villain.
  81. The biggest movie star in the world, The Rock, played linebacker for The University of Miami. He was a senior when freshman Ray Lewis arrived on csmpus and took away playing time. I think he had an NFL tryout but wrestling called. He was a genius at that.

  82. Yes, the new modern actors are better trained and know all the tricks.

    But they have no presence – no weight of personality. Thus they appear hollow and empty: so strangely more unconvincing than many less skilled actors of the past.

    It makes it increasingly difficult to suspend disbelief in modern movies.

    • Agree: Travis
  83. I think casting directors these days are selecting more for the body builder look than for the football player look.

  84. @Steve Sailer
    Basic measure of boyishness is Looking younger than your real years. Tom Cruise, DiCaprio, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Keanu Reeves, etc.

    In contrast, Ronald Reagan always looked his age, so his movie career fizzled out pretty fast as he aged.

    Movies want a hero who looks about 35.

    Cary Grant had the best of both worlds: he didn't look younger when he was less than 35 but he stayed looking 35ish forever.

    But most don't have what it takes to have Cary Grant's career.

    Basic measure of boyishness is looking younger than your real years.

    There is that quality, which is why someone like Johnny Carson always seemed boyish. But there’s also the quality of not seeming like a real grown-up man, which a lot of today’s male stars do not.

    Look at the cast of The Wild Bunch, with William Holden, Robert Ryan, Ernest Borgnine, Warren Oates, and Ben Johnson–those guys came off as grown men. They’d been in the military, had some experience of real life, looked like they had gotten into a few fistfights, and didn’t look like they spent three hours a day at the gym. No “boyishness” about them.

    • Replies: @anon
    Maybe not so much 'boyish' (or goyish?) but what you say, looking not grown up. That tends to individuate people ("the face you deserve" etc.).

    It took me several viewings to figure out what the hell was going on in The Departed because Di Caprio, Damon and and Wahlberg all looked alike; compare Nicholson or even Baldwin, who looked like themselves and no one else.

    But maybe that's good for an actor -- "he can play anyone" whereas old time actors tended to look like themselves in every part."Clark Gable IS Rhett Butler!"

    , @Fred C Dobbs
    Victor Davis Hanson has riffed on that a number of times....(and used The Wild Bunch cast often as specific examples)....

    But just as importantly, he notes - apart from the LOOK........was the SOUND. They TALKED like men. And I do not mean use of 4 letter words. They had male voices. They sounded like all my dad's pals in the Knights of Columbus......

    Just about every male voice I hear now coming from someone under 30 or so sounds like a Kansas City Faggot. LOL. =) (H/T - Slim Pickens)
    , @syonredux
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYP38A-nwLY
  85. Also all modern football palookas are vegetables from chronic traumatic brain injury and they can only remember four words.

  86. @Steve Sailer
    Basic measure of boyishness is Looking younger than your real years. Tom Cruise, DiCaprio, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Keanu Reeves, etc.

    In contrast, Ronald Reagan always looked his age, so his movie career fizzled out pretty fast as he aged.

    Movies want a hero who looks about 35.

    Cary Grant had the best of both worlds: he didn't look younger when he was less than 35 but he stayed looking 35ish forever.

    But most don't have what it takes to have Cary Grant's career.

    Boyish look doesn’t mean that a person is not masculine re personality: cf. Audie Murphy. And, there are actors who somehow age “non-linearly” – Harrison Ford comes to mind. He looked too young for too long; then, he swiftly visually matured when he had been 35-40.

    • Replies: @David In TN
    Audie Murphy was short in stature as well as "boyish" looking. However, people who knew Murphy agree he could be very scary in person.
  87. Steve, you forgot Elroy “Crazylegs” Hirsch, who starred (as himself) in the biographical movie “Crazylegs” as well as in a movie called “Unchained” (forgettable, except for “Unchained Melody”, first recorded by blind Al Hibbler, later covered by The Righteous Brothers–the Hibbler version was better). And you forgot Jim Brown, the circumstances about whose retirement from the Browns remains a bit murky. The story was that he retired because he was participating in the shooting of “The Dirty Dozen” in England and wouldn’t be able to make it back to training camp for the ’66 season and that Browns owner Art Modell read him the riot act. Brown subsequently quit football rather than give in but in light of the the recent Andrew Luck retirement one can’t help wondering if Brown, like former Browns qb Otto Graham and, later, Barry Sanders, had simply had enough of having the crap beaten out of him every Sunday and didn’t want to risk permanent injury and simply decided to go out on top.

  88. My first instinct is that the lack of an NFL team in LA for most of the past 25 years has a lot to do with it,

    Less randomly running into movie directors and producers at parties (maybe LA having 2 teams again will be a good test of this theory).

    another idea, players keep getting bigger and bigger,

    while there’s certainly a niche for muscle bound action stars, the divide between what an NFL players and what the rest of the population looks like has only widened since the 70s

    most NFL players would look too thick to play, idk, a cowboy or a civil war soldier or something like that

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein

    most NFL players would look too thick to play, idk, a cowboy or a civil war soldier or something like that
     
    Only during their actual playing careers. Once they retire and they get off the juice and the training regimen, the shrink down to a more normal size.
  89. anon[112] • Disclaimer says:
    @syonredux

    Jon Hamm has said he had difficulty getting roles prior to Mad Men because the preference was for boyish actors.
     
    Which made him perfect for Mad Men; Don Draper, after all, was supposed to fit the late '50s-early '60s ideal of what a man was supposed to look like (Sean Connery, William Holden, etc).

    Don’t mean to start a cat fight, but … William Holden? I happened to watch Executive Suite yesterday on TCM (talk about Man Men) and Holden looked particularly hollow-chested next to guys like Walter Pidgeon and even some of the older, old time playboy type execs. From the same period, Robert Mitchum could have picked him up and snapped him in half (even being himself what Family Guy calls an ‘out of shape in shape 50s guy’).

    Not questioning his acting, sure he’s a nice guy too, but you can’t group him with Jon Hamm and Sean Connery as a male figure. Connery could be Vincent Price and Holden Clifton Webb in Laura. (Yes, young Vincent Price, although Dana Andrews does punch him into breathlessness near the end).

  90. anon[112] • Disclaimer says:
    @Harry Baldwin
    Basic measure of boyishness is looking younger than your real years.

    There is that quality, which is why someone like Johnny Carson always seemed boyish. But there's also the quality of not seeming like a real grown-up man, which a lot of today's male stars do not.

    Look at the cast of The Wild Bunch, with William Holden, Robert Ryan, Ernest Borgnine, Warren Oates, and Ben Johnson--those guys came off as grown men. They'd been in the military, had some experience of real life, looked like they had gotten into a few fistfights, and didn't look like they spent three hours a day at the gym. No "boyishness" about them.

    Maybe not so much ‘boyish’ (or goyish?) but what you say, looking not grown up. That tends to individuate people (“the face you deserve” etc.).

    It took me several viewings to figure out what the hell was going on in The Departed because Di Caprio, Damon and and Wahlberg all looked alike; compare Nicholson or even Baldwin, who looked like themselves and no one else.

    But maybe that’s good for an actor — “he can play anyone” whereas old time actors tended to look like themselves in every part.”Clark Gable IS Rhett Butler!”

  91. Could I suggest that a chunk of these fellas could not handle memorizing lines? They could not handle elocution training… They could at best repeat some lines in the character of themselves.

    • Replies: @Alden
    Their dialogue can be dubbed later by someone who has a black accent but can read the script and be understood. They’d need a couple big strong wranglers on set to keep them from attacking a food worker or driver, rape, robbery, temper tantrums, you know, what blacks do.
  92. @ecum
    The only role I think DiCaprio has played well was Catch Me If You Can . That was because he looked youthful enough to play a teenager
    I disagree with Steve's assertion that there are more actors today than yesteryear.
    Go back to the sixties when there were Newman, Redford, McQueen, Heston ..
    Just watch the Star Trek TOS episodes and you see scores of good actors just guesting for a single episode. Nothing like that around today

    Or the murderer-of-the-week on Columbo. If you didn’t have your own series at the moment you had to play the villainous guest star on someone else’s. So 1970s TV was awash in wonderfully smug heavies like Shatner, Robert Vaughn, Robert Culp and Lee Grant. Vic Morrow was particularly repulsive

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
    And Hector Elizondo, Leonard Nimoy, Jack Cassidy, Ricardo Montalban, Patrick McGoohan (multiple times)...

    I remember all those episodes. I own the whole series on DVD. Love Columbo.
  93. @R.G. Camara

    LeBron James, who looked 30 when he was 16-years-old, wants to become a big deal in Hollywood (one reason he’s currently with the Los Angeles Lakers, even though it’s easier to get to the NBA finals playing in the Eastern Conference)
     
    I wonder if he's talked to Shaq about that? Shaq went to LA in a boog hoopla and released Kazaam and Steel right at the same time and also started mouthing off BY NAME about all the big name LA women he was banging---and then had to retreat and apologize to a few (Cindy Crawford made him retract it), and Kazaam and Steel bombed and his rap career went kaput.

    It took a few years for Shaq to shake off the LA hangover and concentrate on, ya know, winning basketball games, but to his credit, Shaq realized he'd better concentrate on basketball and let all the other nonsense go to the back burner, and he went back to winning on the court. He pretty much kept the other stuff as side gigs until his playing career was over, and then went back to media. where's he's enjoyed a lot of success in hosting and doing commercials and such.

    In short, LeBron should talk to Shaq. You can't be a Hollywood player and a pro sports star at the same time, especially in a place as distracting as LA. Lebron should finish his career on a high note and not drift into late-career veteran malaise while he tries to get a sitcom on the side. There's plenty of time for all that after he's done---LeBron, like Shaq, will still be a big name after he retires.

    I don’t think LeBron will make much of himself there.

    Shaq has a natural good-naturedness that comes across and makes him personable. LeBron is a just another surly, tattooed black.

  94. @Steve Sailer
    Basic measure of boyishness is Looking younger than your real years. Tom Cruise, DiCaprio, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Keanu Reeves, etc.

    In contrast, Ronald Reagan always looked his age, so his movie career fizzled out pretty fast as he aged.

    Movies want a hero who looks about 35.

    Cary Grant had the best of both worlds: he didn't look younger when he was less than 35 but he stayed looking 35ish forever.

    But most don't have what it takes to have Cary Grant's career.

    “So tell me about yourself….”

    “Not much TO tell. Not a lot of education. Something of a juvenile delinquent. Rode the rails for a time, eventually winding up here in California. Since the war started I’ve been a machinist at Lockheed in Burbank.”

    “PERFECT! Exactly what we’re looking for!”
    ==================

    Robert Mitchum may not have been much of an actor, and certainly not in the traditional sense, but he certainly embodies what Old Hollywood was…people who by dumb luck, circumstance and looking good in a double-breasted suit happened to make something of themselves in the not very exacting science of acting.

    I’ve averaged about two movies a year for the last 20 or so years, so I am not the first person to ask, but it seems just about everyone in today’s Hollywood got their start exceptionally young……child actors from the New York stage, perhaps, or stints in one of the many Disney productions. Lucky Sperm Club Winners Only – No others need apply. In some ways I suppose just another example of our modern world’s demand for over-credentialization.

  95. @Redman
    Does Ice Cube qualify as a classically trained actor? He’s had more than marginal success in Hollywood.

    There’s a bunch of other rappers that have transitioned to acting as well. Although I stopped paying attention to rap music when it died artistically in 1995. Like most other popular music with the invention of the internet and Napster.

    I’ve always thought that the death of music due to Napster was a prototypic iSteve topic. My hypothesis is that young males purchasing music was the source of the music industry’s data on quality. Once Napster allowed young males “open access” to new music, the industry needed to drastically change their model to remain viable.

    Mainly young girls (and some other demos that are no young males) still purchased music. Hence, the rise of musicians who don’t make much music but are celebrities. Like Puff Daddy, and a host of other rappers that make movies, clothes, TV shows but now music that anyone can name.

    “…..Although I stopped paying attention to rap music when it died artistically in 1995…..”

    I’ve been telling people that for…….25 years now.

    I recall early 90s. The GF and I used to go bust a move to…..Bust a Move.

    It was catchy. It was danceable. It was fun.

    FF to 2019 and listen to that rice rocket that pulls up next to you at the light on Chandler and Lankershim. The bass is a dirge, mixed in with high-hat and the “vocals” are nothing but a flat droning of words into a mic. It’s not even music. It is literally the worst collection of sounds ever recorded.

  96. @Known Fact
    Or the murderer-of-the-week on Columbo. If you didn't have your own series at the moment you had to play the villainous guest star on someone else's. So 1970s TV was awash in wonderfully smug heavies like Shatner, Robert Vaughn, Robert Culp and Lee Grant. Vic Morrow was particularly repulsive

    And Hector Elizondo, Leonard Nimoy, Jack Cassidy, Ricardo Montalban, Patrick McGoohan (multiple times)…

    I remember all those episodes. I own the whole series on DVD. Love Columbo.

  97. @Phil
    My first instinct is that the lack of an NFL team in LA for most of the past 25 years has a lot to do with it,

    Less randomly running into movie directors and producers at parties (maybe LA having 2 teams again will be a good test of this theory).

    ---

    another idea, players keep getting bigger and bigger,

    while there's certainly a niche for muscle bound action stars, the divide between what an NFL players and what the rest of the population looks like has only widened since the 70s

    most NFL players would look too thick to play, idk, a cowboy or a civil war soldier or something like that

    most NFL players would look too thick to play, idk, a cowboy or a civil war soldier or something like that

    Only during their actual playing careers. Once they retire and they get off the juice and the training regimen, the shrink down to a more normal size.

  98. @Harry Baldwin
    Basic measure of boyishness is looking younger than your real years.

    There is that quality, which is why someone like Johnny Carson always seemed boyish. But there's also the quality of not seeming like a real grown-up man, which a lot of today's male stars do not.

    Look at the cast of The Wild Bunch, with William Holden, Robert Ryan, Ernest Borgnine, Warren Oates, and Ben Johnson--those guys came off as grown men. They'd been in the military, had some experience of real life, looked like they had gotten into a few fistfights, and didn't look like they spent three hours a day at the gym. No "boyishness" about them.

    Victor Davis Hanson has riffed on that a number of times….(and used The Wild Bunch cast often as specific examples)….

    But just as importantly, he notes – apart from the LOOK……..was the SOUND. They TALKED like men. And I do not mean use of 4 letter words. They had male voices. They sounded like all my dad’s pals in the Knights of Columbus……

    Just about every male voice I hear now coming from someone under 30 or so sounds like a Kansas City Faggot. LOL. =) (H/T – Slim Pickens)

    • Replies: @TWS
    My grandfather was a hard man self educated. He dropped out of school at thirteen working as a cowboy. Too young for wwi too old for wwii he and his friends sounded like men. Maybe guys like Temura Morrison sound like men but most sound soft. The kid who played Opi on Sons of Anarchy sounds like an adult too few in Hollywood do.
  99. @black sea
    What happened was that Warren Sapp arrived, and informed The Rock that he would be taking over as starter, which very quickly transpired.

    I used to watch a fair amount of CFB then, and I certainly don’t recall Dwayne Johnson.

    You HAVE to be good to get a free ride to Miami, but apart from that I think he was just “a guy” at The U.

    • Replies: @black sea
    Johnson started only one game for Miami. He would probably have become a regular starter, but for the arrival of Sapp.

    Johnson's coach at Miami said he would have been a star at a school like Syracuse, but was never really a star on the field at Miami. However, lots of people suspected he would go on to be well known in wrestling or some other form of entertainment.

    https://www.espn.com/blog/playbook/fandom/post/_/id/15186/how-good-was-the-rock-at-football
  100. @Fred C Dobbs
    Victor Davis Hanson has riffed on that a number of times....(and used The Wild Bunch cast often as specific examples)....

    But just as importantly, he notes - apart from the LOOK........was the SOUND. They TALKED like men. And I do not mean use of 4 letter words. They had male voices. They sounded like all my dad's pals in the Knights of Columbus......

    Just about every male voice I hear now coming from someone under 30 or so sounds like a Kansas City Faggot. LOL. =) (H/T - Slim Pickens)

    My grandfather was a hard man self educated. He dropped out of school at thirteen working as a cowboy. Too young for wwi too old for wwii he and his friends sounded like men. Maybe guys like Temura Morrison sound like men but most sound soft. The kid who played Opi on Sons of Anarchy sounds like an adult too few in Hollywood do.

  101. There are fewer NFL stars going to Hollywood because the number of NFL stars known to the US public had declined over the years. QB’s, RB’s, WR’s, OT, LB, even DE’s were famous. Remember the “Fearsome Foursome”, “The Steel curtain”, The “No name defense”? When’s the last time anyone cared who was on the Defense line? The RB’s used to dominate Brown, OJ, Payton, Gale Sayers, Czonka, etc. – who cares about RB’s now? Its all QB’s, WR’s and defensive backs.

    Alex Karras, Rosie Grier, and Merlin Olsen were all Defensive Linesmen. OJ/Jim Brown running backs. Dick Butkus and the Boz were LB’s. BTW, Jabbar was a good actor and so was Shaq. But parts are hard to get when you’re over 7 feet.

  102. @Larry, San Francisco
    James Brown was really good as an action star in 2 of favorite movies of that era, Dirty Dozen and Ice Station Zebra

    Larry, if you say “James” Brown, most people acquainted with college and pro football will not know whom you are talking about. It was and is, Jim Brown.

  103. @Known Fact
    Leroy Ellis and several other LA Lakers suited up to play plus-sized aliens in a 1964 Outer Limits episode. I don't think they quit their day jobs

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/223118554880

    Bill Laimbeer was a Slestak on Land of the Lost. Thankfully for the Bad Boys Pistons he chose to pursue bball.

  104. @R.G. Camara
    Thug life happened in the NFL---meaning the 1990s.

    Even guys from the 1980s could get screen time (e.g. the Super Bowl shuffle crew, specifically The Fridge). But in the 1990s---with rule changes and "thug life" and free agency---- black NFL players became a lot more ghetto and stupidly acted it on-screen. Deon Sanders was taunting other players and doing bush league mockery and it got him famous ---and Deon wasn't even thug, he was just acting more a fool. This attracted players who couldn't even pretend to act civilized like OJ could.

    Meanwhile, white parents were preferring soccer to pop warner for their boys, to avoid those thugs and the injuries. And thus the white players who joined were either QBs or super-athletes (McCaffertys family) or ghetto themselves.

    I’ll try not to sugar coat this, but Deon Sanders is an overrated asshole.

  105. @Fred C Dobbs
    I used to watch a fair amount of CFB then, and I certainly don't recall Dwayne Johnson.

    You HAVE to be good to get a free ride to Miami, but apart from that I think he was just "a guy" at The U.

    Johnson started only one game for Miami. He would probably have become a regular starter, but for the arrival of Sapp.

    Johnson’s coach at Miami said he would have been a star at a school like Syracuse, but was never really a star on the field at Miami. However, lots of people suspected he would go on to be well known in wrestling or some other form of entertainment.

    https://www.espn.com/blog/playbook/fandom/post/_/id/15186/how-good-was-the-rock-at-football

  106. Hey there was also TIM Brown, three-time pro-bowl player in the 60s, who kicked off his acting career in a Wild Wild West episode (bare-chested with bullet-belts!) He also was Spearchucker Jones on MASH

    https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0114790/

    Weird coincidence — he was in the Mission Impossible episode with Shatner I watched right before seeing Steve’s post on all this. He was uncredited and I spent the hour thinking he looked damn familiar

  107. @Harry Baldwin
    Basic measure of boyishness is looking younger than your real years.

    There is that quality, which is why someone like Johnny Carson always seemed boyish. But there's also the quality of not seeming like a real grown-up man, which a lot of today's male stars do not.

    Look at the cast of The Wild Bunch, with William Holden, Robert Ryan, Ernest Borgnine, Warren Oates, and Ben Johnson--those guys came off as grown men. They'd been in the military, had some experience of real life, looked like they had gotten into a few fistfights, and didn't look like they spent three hours a day at the gym. No "boyishness" about them.

  108. @Kyle
    He’s not going to make any money in architecture. Andrew luck is a punk for retiring a week before the regular season. If he had retired the day after the end of last season I wouldn’t have called him that, but waiting until he did is a huge punk move. Why did he even attend the final pre season game? Quitting before the final preseason game would have allowed him to save face when the crowd booed him. Sticking it out for the final preseason game is the most try-hard, millennial thing ever. He’s only a year older than I am and he looks to be about 40 and nearly bald. Judging by looks, he probably doesn’t eat very well and doesn’t take care of his body, so a long career was never meant to be for him.

    Yes, agree it was an obnoxious move to quit now. Gronk had about 9 surgeries,…so quitting was already discussed last February….by speculators. Gronk may just come back, late, for one more SB but Luck will be forgotten.

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
    Gronk is a typical Millennial pussy who finally realized at the age of 30 that bashing into people at full speed involves pain.

    Just like Tim Tebow, he peaked too early. His exceptional physique allowed him to coast all the way through high school and college believing that the game was really easy, that all he had to do was show up and have fun and he could spend the rest of his time partying. He never developed the grit and toughness necessary to overcome real hardship.
    , @Lagertha
    get over yourself.
  109. I dislike the Hollywood habit of casting actors much older than reality. One of the nice things about Mud was how natural the boys were as actual 14 year olds.

  110. Bernie Casey. Terry Crews.

  111. @Anon7
    It’s all about equality, women are just as powerful as men, that’s PC doctrine. Movies are a visual medium, women must be presented as approximately equal in height.

    How can you do that with male actors that are 6’5” and 275 pounds? You can’t. So ideally you cast 95th percentile women and 40th percentile men. Or put 50th percentile women in 4 inch heels next to 50th percentile men.
    .

    They use connecting boxes for height differences. If the actors just stand together, one or two boxes. If they walk along the crew just connects enough boxes for the scene. Simple.

  112. @OhioJoseph
    Could I suggest that a chunk of these fellas could not handle memorizing lines? They could not handle elocution training... They could at best repeat some lines in the character of themselves.

    Their dialogue can be dubbed later by someone who has a black accent but can read the script and be understood. They’d need a couple big strong wranglers on set to keep them from attacking a food worker or driver, rape, robbery, temper tantrums, you know, what blacks do.

  113. @Dale Gribble
    I see Gronk and Tom Brady playing white villains in future films.

    No, they are forever, Golden Guys as far as the 17-50+ year-old white guys (the ones that are 98% of the viewers of football) who love ’em. Tom, especially, has a beautiful wife and adorable kids….and no creepy scandals – all guys dream about having that. These same guys are thrilled that Gronk finally has a gf and seems to be giving up the party life. No white guys with their gf’s or wives will go and pay to see a movie where their generation’s John Wayne will be portrayed as a villain.

  114. I’m disappointed no one has mentioned Dandy Don Meredith. He was on ABC’s MNF, but was lured away by NBC in 1974 so he could star on TV shows in addition to joining Curt Gowdy and Al DeRogatis in the broadcast booth.

  115. @Lagertha
    Yes, agree it was an obnoxious move to quit now. Gronk had about 9 surgeries,...so quitting was already discussed last February....by speculators. Gronk may just come back, late, for one more SB but Luck will be forgotten.

    Gronk is a typical Millennial pussy who finally realized at the age of 30 that bashing into people at full speed involves pain.

    Just like Tim Tebow, he peaked too early. His exceptional physique allowed him to coast all the way through high school and college believing that the game was really easy, that all he had to do was show up and have fun and he could spend the rest of his time partying. He never developed the grit and toughness necessary to overcome real hardship.

  116. to Intelligent Dasein

    WTF are you talking about? You just described every football player on the gridiron. You described every player, talented or not?!!!! – what happened to you, back in the day? ….ok, full disclosure: my kids had surgeries/recoveries/bodies not secure enough to compete anymore…so. don’t say shit you have not experienced. They were not fans of Tebow…because as Nordics, bragging was uncouth.

    Also, my boys loved soccer, football and rugby and threw themselves during the games. I went thru 5 surgeries. It sucked..but it helped them to grow up. They are amazing young men, and I am so proud of them.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    recovery over injuries was the worst! It was a bad time. If anything, I want young parents to know that sport injuries require parents to be extra available (take turns to be home) - that's all - be home.
    , @Lagertha
    check down on thread. I almost, lost my son...so I am so emotional about this.
  117. @Lagertha
    to Intelligent Dasein

    WTF are you talking about? You just described every football player on the gridiron. You described every player, talented or not?!!!! - what happened to you, back in the day? ....ok, full disclosure: my kids had surgeries/recoveries/bodies not secure enough to compete anymore...so. don't say shit you have not experienced. They were not fans of Tebow...because as Nordics, bragging was uncouth.

    Also, my boys loved soccer, football and rugby and threw themselves during the games. I went thru 5 surgeries. It sucked..but it helped them to grow up. They are amazing young men, and I am so proud of them.

    recovery over injuries was the worst! It was a bad time. If anything, I want young parents to know that sport injuries require parents to be extra available (take turns to be home) – that’s all – be home.

  118. @Lagertha
    to Intelligent Dasein

    WTF are you talking about? You just described every football player on the gridiron. You described every player, talented or not?!!!! - what happened to you, back in the day? ....ok, full disclosure: my kids had surgeries/recoveries/bodies not secure enough to compete anymore...so. don't say shit you have not experienced. They were not fans of Tebow...because as Nordics, bragging was uncouth.

    Also, my boys loved soccer, football and rugby and threw themselves during the games. I went thru 5 surgeries. It sucked..but it helped them to grow up. They are amazing young men, and I am so proud of them.

    check down on thread. I almost, lost my son…so I am so emotional about this.

  119. Yeah, but Woody Strode played for everybody, including a stint in the Canadian Football League.

  120. @Bardon Kaldian
    Boyish look doesn't mean that a person is not masculine re personality: cf. Audie Murphy. And, there are actors who somehow age "non-linearly" - Harrison Ford comes to mind. He looked too young for too long; then, he swiftly visually matured when he had been 35-40.

    Audie Murphy was short in stature as well as “boyish” looking. However, people who knew Murphy agree he could be very scary in person.

  121. @Lagertha
    Hahaaaa - I can tell you were never an athlete! - you don't get it! You simply do not understand sport!

    Luck was lucky to be graduated from Stanford. If he was not an excellent football player, he may not have been accepted to SU in the first place...but he was also, an excellent student (double whamy).

    So, he goes back to his thoughts a couple of days ago, when he remembered when he was 15 and a freshmen in HS,....hmmmm.... he may very well decide: I accomplished the athletic part.

    lol. I love when sad benchwarmers like yourself who mainline ESPN as a substitute for a personality pretend you “know” how a certain celebrity athlete is. You’re quite pathetic in your “true knowledge” of who they are. I mean, you just embarrassed yourself openly by stating that Luck was too stupid to be a Stanford grad, and black sea here just smacked you around with facts. You’re such a pathetic mark.

    So hahaha on your claims about what you “know” about Luck and his personality. He’ll be working in the XFL within 3 years, if not sooner.

    And, not it matters, but unlike you, little mama’s boy, I played tons of organized sports in my youth, including quite many violent ones, including the one Andrew Luck played (not in the NFL, of course)—you know, the kinds of sports you could never play because you’re just a benchwarming mama’s boy.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    Lagertha is a mother to her sons. I’d hardly expect her to have played much organized football. And no one with any sense at all gives a nickel who plays with a ball or where he plays with it.
  122. @R.G. Camara
    lol. I love when sad benchwarmers like yourself who mainline ESPN as a substitute for a personality pretend you "know" how a certain celebrity athlete is. You're quite pathetic in your "true knowledge" of who they are. I mean, you just embarrassed yourself openly by stating that Luck was too stupid to be a Stanford grad, and black sea here just smacked you around with facts. You're such a pathetic mark.

    So hahaha on your claims about what you "know" about Luck and his personality. He'll be working in the XFL within 3 years, if not sooner.

    And, not it matters, but unlike you, little mama's boy, I played tons of organized sports in my youth, including quite many violent ones, including the one Andrew Luck played (not in the NFL, of course)---you know, the kinds of sports you could never play because you're just a benchwarming mama's boy.

    Lagertha is a mother to her sons. I’d hardly expect her to have played much organized football. And no one with any sense at all gives a nickel who plays with a ball or where he plays with it.

  123. @Lagertha
    Yes, agree it was an obnoxious move to quit now. Gronk had about 9 surgeries,...so quitting was already discussed last February....by speculators. Gronk may just come back, late, for one more SB but Luck will be forgotten.

    get over yourself.

Comments are closed.

Subscribe to All Steve Sailer Comments via RSS