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Quentin Tarantino Fails the Bechdel Test
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Quentin Tarantino’s primary subject matters, even when he was a young director, have been middle-aged masculinity and movie glamor. He likes old Hollywood tough guys.

So, the trailer for his upcoming movie “Once Upon a Time in Hollywood” looks promising. It has something to do with the 1969 Manson murders, but it appears to have more to do with a fictionalized 1960s tough guy actor in the James Coburn / Robert Conrad mode (played by Leonardo DiCaprio) and his stunt double (played by Brad Pitt). The two ex-pretty boys are finally weatherbeaten enough to look perfect for a Tarantino movie.

This could turn out to be the ideal matter for Tarantino’s narrow but sizable talents.

But what about Representation? What about the Bechdel Test?

From the Daily Mail:

Quentin Tarantino delivered a fiery resp onse to a journalist who quizzed him about his portrayal of women in his films.

When asked by a journalist from The New York Times why Margot Robbie – who plays Sharon Tate in his new movie Once Upon a Time in Hollywood – wasn’t given many lines, the director, 56, quipped back: ‘I just reject your hypotheses.’

Speaking at the photocall for the critically lauded flick at the press conference during Cannes Film Festival, the visionary’s reaction to the question prompted Margot, 28, to note that ‘a lot could be adequately done without speaking’.

And following his short answer to the reason behind Margot’s lack of lines, the blonde beauty was left to fend for herself.

She replied: ‘I think the moments I was on screen gave a moment to honour Sharon. I think the tragedy was the loss of innocence. To show the wonderful sides of her could be done without speaking.

‘I did feel like I got a lot of time to explore the character without dialogue, which is an interesting thing. Rarely do I get an opportunity to spend so much time on my own as a character.’

In other words, Tarantino wasn’t interested in writing a lot of lines for a woman.

But he was interested in casting a really good actress who looks wonderful as Sharon Tate.

 
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  1. Really good actress? Debatable.

    Really hot actress? Absolutely.

    • Agree: JimDandy, Kyle
  2. J.Ross says: • Website

    This looks like it will either not be total garbage, or it will be garbage so completely that it will be thoroughly enjoyable. I might see this. I just saw a list of all the major films the biggest studios are planning for the next two years, most don’t have titles yet but it’s all Star Wars this and Cape Stuff that, so this Basterds-style historical fantasy comes off as sparklingly original by comparison.
    What happened the last time a female journalist tried to shame Tarentino was epic:

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    Thomas Fleming of the Rockford Institute once criticized Ron Howard for wearing a baseball cap while not playing baseball.

    Tarantino tops Howard on the ridiculous scale by wearing a hockey jersey. A native of Knoxville.

    What team is that, by the way?
  3. Not a Tarantino fan except for Jackie Brown – 1997. But he deserves credit for filming this all in the LA area. He insisted on this, which made it (obviously) more expensive. Q had the juice to get it done this way. He hates farming it out to HongCouver, Toronto, etc.
    I like your weather beaten pretty boys line and will go see this in an actual movie theater. Plus there will be lots of old 60s cars running around and this part will be done right. 60s interiors and exteriors. This movie will rake it in. Though not on the retarded comic books level like Avengers xxx, Marvel xxx where Asians and their money flock to them.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    I won't watch Tarantino movies anymore after Django.

    BTW, whatever happened to that annoying Chinese kid who thought Tarantino was a good writer?
    , @Desiderius
    Jackie Brown gets him a lifetime Bechdel pass, but his overall vision for what female empowerment looks like has turned out to be a colossal flop.

    Cf. Captain Marvel

    , @J.Ross
    Tarentino loves Hollywood, the 70s, and Southern California, so I would trust him to do a good job with a movie combining these. His egregious offenses have all been far from any of those.
    , @SunBakedSuburb
    "Not a Tarantino fan except for Jackie Brown -- 1997. But he deserves credit for filming this all in the LA area."

    Spot-on. The Daily Mail journalist refers to Tarantino as a visionary. There have been very few Hollywood filmmakers that can be accurately described as visionary. Tarantino is not among that select group. His movies are about movies and are basically pop confections.
  4. In other words, Tarantino wasn’t interested in writing a lot of lines for a woman.

    So? He created perhaps the most high-profile starring role ever for a middle-aged black woman.

    Pam Grier as Jackie Brown.

    • Agree: Sean
    • Replies: @Sean
    He had a woman getting choked scene in that one, and another in Kill Bill, and a really brutal one in Inglorious Batsterds. The repeated punching and eventual vile hanging of a woman in Hateful Eight should not have surprised.
  5. Thanks to a bunch of evil murderers, the real Sharon Tate didn’t get her fair chance to speak in life, so it’s kind of apt.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Right.
    , @Sean
    As opposed to morally irreproachable murderers? It was Tex Watson who inflicted all the fatal injuries. The girls were so saturated in LSD that all Manson had to do was jailhouse card tricks and they thought it was real magic.. Tate had chosen a pretty strange set to run with considering she was pregnant, getting high on LSD and living with someone other than the bad man she'd chose to marry. who just happened to be a major Hollywood director Polanski who was half way through "Apartment Trilogy" having done Repulsion and Rosemary's Baby both of which are about tenants coming to a very sticky end in rented accommodation with ominous landlords.

    The one who precipitated the whole Manson thing was the landlord Tates group were renting from, who told Manson in no uncertain terms to get off the property when he went to try and get back in contact with Doris Day's music producer son, who had become chary of Manson and moved. The Manson killings were all about his failing to get a record contract and taking it out on people who were tangential.
  6. Spoiler Alert:

    I am going to go out on a limb and guess that one reason the Sharon Tate character doesn’t have a ton of lines is because, you know, something happens that kind of limits her opportunity for further character development.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    What character is Pacino supposed to be portraying in the bearded foreigner who like killing? Polanski?
  7. “Tarantino likes old Hollywood tough guys”. Judging by his films in the last 10 years, He does NOT like Old Hollywood WHITE Tough Guys.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    The opposite of love is not hate but indifference. The hate stems from his own inadequacy, but he also obviously loves them too.
    , @Sean
    Too recent to be a homage, Tarantino's latest is a total rip off of


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQR5zsLHbYw


    "Shane Black is what Quentin Tarantino wants to be when he grows up."
  8. DiCaprio’s approximation of a USA Southern accent is pathetic. This has been going on since the debut of the talkies. People are stupid. Cough.

    Let’s be honest. Tarantino’s movies kind of blow. I get the high production value and the edgy dialogue and plot, good costuming and nice cars. But why is that special?

    Now here is a popular film that Hollywood needs to revisit:

    I considered the book closed after Bullitt.

    • Replies: @Jean Skiskel

    I considered the book closed after Bullitt.
     
    Tarantino lost me after Django. Quite an abortion. Jamie Fox was in over his head. Stupid screenplay. Haven't watched anything of his since.

    I'm not telling tales out of school when I say that absolutely everything Tarantino knows about movie-making, it's style and substance, he learned from "Frankenhooker." Arguably the best motion picture produced in 1990.

    A well known running joke is:

    Q: What was really in that glowing briefcase in Pulp Fiction?
    A: A videotape of Frankenhooker

    I only wish a reporter would have cornered him with a Frankenhooker accusation, so I could watch the poser sweat:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDAaW-SL_sM
  9. @Clyde
    Not a Tarantino fan except for Jackie Brown - 1997. But he deserves credit for filming this all in the LA area. He insisted on this, which made it (obviously) more expensive. Q had the juice to get it done this way. He hates farming it out to HongCouver, Toronto, etc.
    I like your weather beaten pretty boys line and will go see this in an actual movie theater. Plus there will be lots of old 60s cars running around and this part will be done right. 60s interiors and exteriors. This movie will rake it in. Though not on the retarded comic books level like Avengers xxx, Marvel xxx where Asians and their money flock to them.

    I won’t watch Tarantino movies anymore after Django.

    BTW, whatever happened to that annoying Chinese kid who thought Tarantino was a good writer?

    • Replies: @HammerJack

    I won’t watch Tarantino movies anymore after Django.
     
    Fair enough. However, and FWIW, I quit after "Pulp Fiction" and don't believe I've missed much.
  10. @Endgame Napoleon
    Thanks to a bunch of evil murderers, the real Sharon Tate didn’t get her fair chance to speak in life, so it’s kind of apt.

    Right.

  11. She’s a 2014 recipient of the MacArthur “Genius” Award.[3] She is also known for the Bechdel test. From wikipedia. Her photo there, she looks like an older Rachel Maddow. The new normal/ I suppose.

  12. @Hypnotoad666
    Spoiler Alert:

    I am going to go out on a limb and guess that one reason the Sharon Tate character doesn't have a ton of lines is because, you know, something happens that kind of limits her opportunity for further character development.

    What character is Pacino supposed to be portraying in the bearded foreigner who like killing? Polanski?

    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
    Charles Bluhdorn?
  13. @Chrisnonymous
    I won't watch Tarantino movies anymore after Django.

    BTW, whatever happened to that annoying Chinese kid who thought Tarantino was a good writer?

    I won’t watch Tarantino movies anymore after Django.

    Fair enough. However, and FWIW, I quit after “Pulp Fiction” and don’t believe I’ve missed much.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    Pulp Fiction is the single most overrated film of all time.

    Reservoir Dogs is cool though.
  14. @Clyde
    Not a Tarantino fan except for Jackie Brown - 1997. But he deserves credit for filming this all in the LA area. He insisted on this, which made it (obviously) more expensive. Q had the juice to get it done this way. He hates farming it out to HongCouver, Toronto, etc.
    I like your weather beaten pretty boys line and will go see this in an actual movie theater. Plus there will be lots of old 60s cars running around and this part will be done right. 60s interiors and exteriors. This movie will rake it in. Though not on the retarded comic books level like Avengers xxx, Marvel xxx where Asians and their money flock to them.

    Jackie Brown gets him a lifetime Bechdel pass, but his overall vision for what female empowerment looks like has turned out to be a colossal flop.

    Cf. Captain Marvel

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    I'm confused by this argument, Uma Thurman carrying water up the stairs is the perfect opposite of a Mary Sue. Or is that what you meant, that the Mouse buying its own tickets beats actual filmmaking?
    , @SFG
    He *doesn't* get a pass--they're after him now. I don't think he's got quite the bad name Woody Allen does at this point, though.

    I suspect Allen will be rehabilitated as a chronicler of turn-of-the-century New York after the pendulum has swung back.
    , @njguy73
    Jackie Brown is also Tarantino's only adapted, not original, screenplay. So it should be Leonard Elmore who gets the Bechdel pass.
  15. @WhiteWinger
    "Tarantino likes old Hollywood tough guys". Judging by his films in the last 10 years, He does NOT like Old Hollywood WHITE Tough Guys.

    The opposite of love is not hate but indifference. The hate stems from his own inadequacy, but he also obviously loves them too.

  16. I hate QT for political reasons,but I do want to see this. (Although I,unlike some of my cohort,detest Manson,and seeing those murders referenced may make me a tad queasy.
    Charlie Tex ,and any of the girls with blood on their hands should’ve met their Maker a long time ago.)
    Given my dislike for QT,am I selling out by buying tickets for his product?

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan

    Although I, unlike some of my cohort, detest Manson
     
    Er...what is your cohort?
  17. @Desiderius
    Jackie Brown gets him a lifetime Bechdel pass, but his overall vision for what female empowerment looks like has turned out to be a colossal flop.

    Cf. Captain Marvel

    I’m confused by this argument, Uma Thurman carrying water up the stairs is the perfect opposite of a Mary Sue. Or is that what you meant, that the Mouse buying its own tickets beats actual filmmaking?

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    You’ve got to be joking. The hero always goes through trials before triumph. Both her trials and her triumph are (intentionally) absurdly masculine in nature.
  18. @Clyde
    Not a Tarantino fan except for Jackie Brown - 1997. But he deserves credit for filming this all in the LA area. He insisted on this, which made it (obviously) more expensive. Q had the juice to get it done this way. He hates farming it out to HongCouver, Toronto, etc.
    I like your weather beaten pretty boys line and will go see this in an actual movie theater. Plus there will be lots of old 60s cars running around and this part will be done right. 60s interiors and exteriors. This movie will rake it in. Though not on the retarded comic books level like Avengers xxx, Marvel xxx where Asians and their money flock to them.

    Tarentino loves Hollywood, the 70s, and Southern California, so I would trust him to do a good job with a movie combining these. His egregious offenses have all been far from any of those.

  19. Forgot to ask,but is the title an homage to Sergio Leone?

  20. Tarantino, the master of blood porn. Akira Kirosawa made great action movies, with samuri swords, without buckets, wait, make that tanker trucks, of fake blood and gore.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    True enough. Then again, people used to believe (and some still do) that cops should be able to just shoot a gun or knife out of a bad guy's hand.
    , @SunBakedSuburb
    "Tarantino, the master of blood porn."

    One of the reasons why QT turns me off. He has a sadist's love for violence and pain. I could be wrong but I doubt he has ever experienced violence in real life.
  21. “A lot could be adequately done without speaking.”
    As a lawyer, I would have to say this is quite sublime. I will have to mention this prescient quote to my supervisor during my quarterly review.

  22. It’s interesting that a character is only valued by how much they talk – especially in a predominantly visual medium.

    I have always posed a certain metaphysical difference between men and women in this way:

    Man: “I think (when necessary), therefore I am. (not that I ever really questioned the fact that I am – that seems pretty gay)

    Woman: “I talk, therefore I am. (are you even LISTENING TO MEEEE??!!)

    • LOL: Redneck farmer
    • Replies: @Forbes
    No, you can't win with these complaints observations..

    In the last Superhero epic (I don't watch 'em, so the name escapes me), these stooges were totaling the screen time to determine "fairness." Here, they're counting the amount of spoken dialogue.

    You can't win because they move the goal posts. Every time.

    Like my ex-wife.

    I'd tell her I was going off to do something--she'd want me to ask if she minded. Next time, I'd ask if she minded--and she'd reply, "just tell me what you're gonna do."

    Did I say my ex-wife?
    , @Art Deco
    It’s interesting that a character is only valued by how much they talk – especially in a predominantly visual medium.

    Look at Bechdel's visuals, and it's all clear.
  23. Skip this for the new Bill & Ted movie.

  24. IMDb lists numerous Sixties era names in full cast/character list that Tarantino has written into his fictional script (all played by actors, of course). It looks like it will be an interesting movie.

    Tarantino is obsessively knowledgeable about American popular culture from the two decades before he reached adulthood. I wonder, though, if the time for Sixties nostalgia movies is passing—few people under the age of 55 or so will instantly pick up on the references. I mean, who remembers now who Jay Sebring was other than people who remember the Tate-Labianca murders from that time ?

    • Replies: @Feryl
    1980's nostalgia plays really well with Millennials; since the mid-2000's more and more pop culture references, or takes place in, the 80's. Family Guy, at least the earlier episodes, seem to practically take place in the 80's, judging from constant references to that decade.

    Move review podcasts, and YouTube channels, generally give the impression that pre-1980 movies draw less interest, with some obvious high profile exceptions (E.g. The Exorcist, the Godfather, Star Wars etc.).

    I would argue that such things like audio production, clothing fabrics, accents etc. tend to make pre-1980 pop culture seem extremely dated to Millennials and Gen Z. 70's movies and songs often seem very austere, sparse, sort of airy; younger people who grew up with "modern" art aesthetics find the pre-MTV age to be sort of drab and vaguely off-putting. There are techniques (and technology) to make visual and aural stuff more striking, more immediate, but many of these didn't really exist until the 80's. For example, movie cameras that accurately captured nighttime exterior environments didn't really exist until the early 80's (so pre-1980 filmmakers needed to have very extensive and skillful lighting to make outdoor nightime footage watchable).
  25. @Steve Sailer
    What character is Pacino supposed to be portraying in the bearded foreigner who like killing? Polanski?

    Charles Bluhdorn?

  26. @Father O'Hara
    I hate QT for political reasons,but I do want to see this. (Although I,unlike some of my cohort,detest Manson,and seeing those murders referenced may make me a tad queasy.
    Charlie Tex ,and any of the girls with blood on their hands should've met their Maker a long time ago.)
    Given my dislike for QT,am I selling out by buying tickets for his product?

    Although I, unlike some of my cohort, detest Manson

    Er…what is your cohort?

  27. The real Sharon Tate was not known as a great conversationalist. She was a simple, sweet girl who was cursed by the gods with an unearthly physical beauty. Tarantino probably was actually being historically accurate in not giving her a lot of dialogue.

    I haven’t seen Valley of the Dolls, but I have seen Polanski’s The Fearless Vampire Killers multiple times, and Tate didn’t have a lot of lines in that one, either, even though she was the female lead and the director was her boyfriend.

    • Replies: @Known Fact
    I did see Valley of the Dolls back then but was much more into Patty Duke and Barbara Parkins to recall much of anyone else
  28. @Desiderius
    Jackie Brown gets him a lifetime Bechdel pass, but his overall vision for what female empowerment looks like has turned out to be a colossal flop.

    Cf. Captain Marvel

    He *doesn’t* get a pass–they’re after him now. I don’t think he’s got quite the bad name Woody Allen does at this point, though.

    I suspect Allen will be rehabilitated as a chronicler of turn-of-the-century New York after the pendulum has swung back.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Just because some idiots go after someone it does not follow that they’re going down. QT’s smart enough not to throw them red meat like an apology or anything. Give them the contempt they deserve (and seek!) and they’ll leave for softer targets.
  29. The other day, I watched Khartoum again, a 1966 film with Charlton Heston, Lawrence Olivier and Ralph Richardson, which garnered an Oscar nomination for Best Screenplay.

    In the full-length film, which presents an account of real historical events at the highest levels of government in Britain and Sudan in the late 19th century, there is not one line spoken by a woman.

    I’m guessing that wouldn’t happen today.

    • Replies: @RickinJax
    Also Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World.
    C. 2003. One woman appears in it for about 10 seconds but does not speak.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    I’m guessing that wouldn’t happen today
     
    Not even in gay films?
    , @Kylie
    David Lean's Lawrence of Arabia has one woman in the cast, Barbara Cole. She plays a nurse (uncredited).
    , @S. Anonyia
    Happened in Dunkirk. There are like 3 lines spoken by women.

    Not uncommon in war movies where it's appropriate. Is pretty weird to have women having few lines in 1970s Southern California though.

    I've never been a fan of directors making movies about movies in general. Lots of navel-gazing. Like people who make a novelist the lead character of their books.
    , @SunBakedSuburb
    John Carpenter's The Thing (1982). The best monster movie ever made. Zero chicks.
  30. Ha ha. I meant guys who wore those “Charlie Don’t Surf” t shirts.
    My memories are hazy,but I now think the cohort was more my younger brother’s than mine. He liked stuff like that.

  31. @Desiderius
    Jackie Brown gets him a lifetime Bechdel pass, but his overall vision for what female empowerment looks like has turned out to be a colossal flop.

    Cf. Captain Marvel

    Jackie Brown is also Tarantino’s only adapted, not original, screenplay. So it should be Leonard Elmore who gets the Bechdel pass.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    He still chose to adapt it, chose Robert Forster, chose the soundtrack. It was a great flick all around.

    For a dweeb, the guy does ok making movies usually. If he gets taken down it’s because chicks hate dweebs, not Bechdel.
    , @ThreeCranes
    Um, that's eromlE dranoeL.
  32. Didn’t Uma Thurman throw a lot of shade at him in the me too brouhaha?

    The Bugliosi story about how the murders went down is a farce. It was a drug dealer beef and half of Hollywood was rehab ready. I can’t imagine Tarantino will want to throw the curtains back on that. Also: Roman Polanski is a scumbag and he is what Tarantino wishes he was. He has the scumbag part of the man down but his movies aren’t in the same league.

    • Agree: Clyde
    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
    It wasn't a "drug dealer beef".

    Sharon Tate and Abigail Folger were wise to Polanski's use of Manson's underage girls as prostitutes for Hollywood's famous and wealthy at Laurel Canyon parties. Abigail Folger financed the VD/abortion clinic at which all of Manson's girls were treated for their various and sundry infections, so she knew what was going on. Her murder was not just an accident. Tate badgered Polanski about the presence of Manson's girls and had told him that she was getting fed up with the use of teenagers as entertainment at his parties.

    Manson himself had been jailed for pimping out underage girls back in Chicago. At one point, he pimped out his own wife. Manson ordered the hit because Tate and Folger threatened his gravy train. Also, he entertained delusions of one day being a big time entertainer and hoped to use the connections he made with Hollywood's rich and famous to jumpstart his career. Losing access through his runaway, midwest girl/whores spelled doom for Good Time Charley. One thing for sure, he'd made up his mind that he wasn't going back to jail for pimping.

    Hollywood ran with Bugliosi's HelterSkelter bullcrap as a red herring, to draw attention away from the mischievous doings of its own. But we know today how prevalent the use of underage girls is even among the supposedly respectable. Right, Bill?
    , @SunBakedSuburb
    Roman Polanski: great filmmaker and sexual deviant.
  33. Anon[396] • Disclaimer says:

    The problem is that Harvey Weinstein isn’t around to rein in the guy, so it turned into a 3-hour movie. I am certain that there is an hour he could trim, but he won’t. We’re stuck with the director’s cut DVD version before we know if we’re interested in seeing the director’s cut.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I want to see the Editor's Cut of Peter Jackson's "King Kong."
  34. @SFG
    He *doesn't* get a pass--they're after him now. I don't think he's got quite the bad name Woody Allen does at this point, though.

    I suspect Allen will be rehabilitated as a chronicler of turn-of-the-century New York after the pendulum has swung back.

    Just because some idiots go after someone it does not follow that they’re going down. QT’s smart enough not to throw them red meat like an apology or anything. Give them the contempt they deserve (and seek!) and they’ll leave for softer targets.

  35. @njguy73
    Jackie Brown is also Tarantino's only adapted, not original, screenplay. So it should be Leonard Elmore who gets the Bechdel pass.

    He still chose to adapt it, chose Robert Forster, chose the soundtrack. It was a great flick all around.

    For a dweeb, the guy does ok making movies usually. If he gets taken down it’s because chicks hate dweebs, not Bechdel.

  36. @Anon
    The problem is that Harvey Weinstein isn't around to rein in the guy, so it turned into a 3-hour movie. I am certain that there is an hour he could trim, but he won't. We're stuck with the director's cut DVD version before we know if we're interested in seeing the director's cut.

    I want to see the Editor’s Cut of Peter Jackson’s “King Kong.”

    • Replies: @Ghost of Bull Moose
    The French plantation scenes in the 'Apocalypse Now' d.c. brought the movie to a halt.
  37. The Tate murder was perceived as so tragic in part because of Tate’s unassailable angelic beauty. The public projected innocence and ideal womanhood on Tate because of her incredible looks. If the Tate actress has too many lines, then her symbol of innocence to Tarantino’s movie audience would be tarnished.

    In reality, Tate was not so innocent in her personal life in terms of sex and drugs, not that any of that is relevant in the moral analysis of a demonic butchering of Tate and her unborn child. Tate was famously shy in person so the character may be a true depiction of Tate being a woman of few words, especially around strangers.

    There is no shortage of weirdness surrounding Tate, Polanski, who was always up to his elbows in bad juju, and the whole hippy California scene. Polanski wanted Tate to play Rosemary in Rosemary’s Baby which is pretty dark, even by Polanski standards. Polanski wanted to cast his future wife as an innocent blonde who is sold out by her conniving husband to a cabal of satanic witches so that his wife could be raped by Satan in order to give birth to the Anti-Christ in exchange for success in… Hollywood.

    One of the spookier elements of the Tate tragedy is the last shot of her final film, The Thirteen Chairs, an Italian B-grade picture released in 1969, the year of her untimely death. The final shot involves an Italian barber who moves to New York and invents a miraculous hair growth formula. Well, the final shot says it all. Yeah, bad juju all around.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    That's quite a cast:

    Sharon Tate
    Orson Welles
    Terry-Thomas

  38. “…a fictionalized 1960s tough guy actor in the James Coburn / Robert Conrad mode (played by Leonardo DiCaprio)…” Hilarious! What next- “A suave sophisticated actor in the Cary Grant / William Powell mode (played by Jack Black)” ? “A sensitive poetic type in the Leslie Howard / Ronald Colman mode (played by Ice Cube)”? “An intense beauty in the Bette Davis / Katharine Hepburn mode (played by Ellen DeGeneres)”?

  39. “…why Margot Robbie – who plays Sharon Tate in his new movie Once Upon a Time in Hollywood – wasn’t given many lines…”

    The biggest advantage of auditioning for silent movies is that it can be done even with a full mouth.

    Harvey Polanski immediately recognized Tate’s enormous talent.

  40. …the visionary’s reaction to the question prompted Margot, 28, to note that ‘a lot could be adequately done without speaking’.

    Especially when naked.

  41. @Anon7
    The other day, I watched Khartoum again, a 1966 film with Charlton Heston, Lawrence Olivier and Ralph Richardson, which garnered an Oscar nomination for Best Screenplay.

    In the full-length film, which presents an account of real historical events at the highest levels of government in Britain and Sudan in the late 19th century, there is not one line spoken by a woman.

    I’m guessing that wouldn’t happen today.

    Also Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World.
    C. 2003. One woman appears in it for about 10 seconds but does not speak.

  42. Paul says:

    When I was in college, I was walking along the sidewalk with a fellow student. She stopped to talk briefly with another student. A few moments later, she asked me if I knew who that was. I did not know who he was. She told me that was Tony LaBianca, the son of the owner of some grocery stores who was killed by the Manson Family in the Sharon Tate and LaBianca murders. Growing up in Southern California I was familiar with the sensation those murders caused.

  43. @J.Ross
    This looks like it will either not be total garbage, or it will be garbage so completely that it will be thoroughly enjoyable. I might see this. I just saw a list of all the major films the biggest studios are planning for the next two years, most don't have titles yet but it's all Star Wars this and Cape Stuff that, so this Basterds-style historical fantasy comes off as sparklingly original by comparison.
    What happened the last time a female journalist tried to shame Tarentino was epic:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eL3k5NtBUaI

    Thomas Fleming of the Rockford Institute once criticized Ron Howard for wearing a baseball cap while not playing baseball.

    Tarantino tops Howard on the ridiculous scale by wearing a hockey jersey. A native of Knoxville.

    What team is that, by the way?

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    I despise the trend of men wearing hats indoors. Hey, if you're wearing a kippah, I'll give you a pass - tradition, religion, and all that. Or if you are following whatever military regulations are pertinant. Fine. But otherwise, take off your f**king hat. It's especially ridiculous in Ron Howard's case, as he is presumably wearing the cap to cover his balding head. We all know you're going bald Ron - there's no secret being kept there.
    , @Kyle
    Maybe the hockey jersey is an homage to Kevin Smith.
    , @SunBakedSuburb
    Hockey jerseys were a sartorial trend for a while among overweight early middle age men, mostly writers, in the film/TV business.
  44. @Anon7
    The other day, I watched Khartoum again, a 1966 film with Charlton Heston, Lawrence Olivier and Ralph Richardson, which garnered an Oscar nomination for Best Screenplay.

    In the full-length film, which presents an account of real historical events at the highest levels of government in Britain and Sudan in the late 19th century, there is not one line spoken by a woman.

    I’m guessing that wouldn’t happen today.

    I’m guessing that wouldn’t happen today

    Not even in gay films?

  45. Steve, you’ll have to report on this to us, especially if golf is involved:

    Trans women in sports to engage in powerful conversation at Outsports Pride

  46. @Anon7
    The other day, I watched Khartoum again, a 1966 film with Charlton Heston, Lawrence Olivier and Ralph Richardson, which garnered an Oscar nomination for Best Screenplay.

    In the full-length film, which presents an account of real historical events at the highest levels of government in Britain and Sudan in the late 19th century, there is not one line spoken by a woman.

    I’m guessing that wouldn’t happen today.

    David Lean’s Lawrence of Arabia has one woman in the cast, Barbara Cole. She plays a nurse (uncredited).

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    David Lean’s Lawrence of Arabia has one woman in the cast, Barbara Cole. She plays a nurse (uncredited).
     
    Was she the actual nurse on the set?
  47. @Kylie
    David Lean's Lawrence of Arabia has one woman in the cast, Barbara Cole. She plays a nurse (uncredited).

    David Lean’s Lawrence of Arabia has one woman in the cast, Barbara Cole. She plays a nurse (uncredited).

    Was she the actual nurse on the set?

    • Replies: @Kylie
    No, I think if she had been, she would have been credited.
  48. @Reg Cæsar

    David Lean’s Lawrence of Arabia has one woman in the cast, Barbara Cole. She plays a nurse (uncredited).
     
    Was she the actual nurse on the set?

    No, I think if she had been, she would have been credited.

  49. Margit Robbie is another product of Aussie soap Neighbours. Russell Crowe, Guy Pearce, Liam Hemsworth and Chris Hemsworth being the others.

  50. Note the legs.

  51. @Kibernetika
    DiCaprio's approximation of a USA Southern accent is pathetic. This has been going on since the debut of the talkies. People are stupid. Cough.

    Let's be honest. Tarantino's movies kind of blow. I get the high production value and the edgy dialogue and plot, good costuming and nice cars. But why is that special?

    https://youtu.be/MEjdt_n1l-4

    Now here is a popular film that Hollywood needs to revisit:

    https://youtu.be/LDZ5EJ7bwbc

    I considered the book closed after Bullitt.

    I considered the book closed after Bullitt.

    Tarantino lost me after Django. Quite an abortion. Jamie Fox was in over his head. Stupid screenplay. Haven’t watched anything of his since.

    I’m not telling tales out of school when I say that absolutely everything Tarantino knows about movie-making, it’s style and substance, he learned from “Frankenhooker.” Arguably the best motion picture produced in 1990.

    A well known running joke is:

    Q: What was really in that glowing briefcase in Pulp Fiction?
    A: A videotape of Frankenhooker

    I only wish a reporter would have cornered him with a Frankenhooker accusation, so I could watch the poser sweat:

    • Replies: @Gunnar von Cowtown
    I believe I could drink bourbon with you, sir.
  52. @Anon7
    The other day, I watched Khartoum again, a 1966 film with Charlton Heston, Lawrence Olivier and Ralph Richardson, which garnered an Oscar nomination for Best Screenplay.

    In the full-length film, which presents an account of real historical events at the highest levels of government in Britain and Sudan in the late 19th century, there is not one line spoken by a woman.

    I’m guessing that wouldn’t happen today.

    Happened in Dunkirk. There are like 3 lines spoken by women.

    Not uncommon in war movies where it’s appropriate. Is pretty weird to have women having few lines in 1970s Southern California though.

    I’ve never been a fan of directors making movies about movies in general. Lots of navel-gazing. Like people who make a novelist the lead character of their books.

    • Replies: @jim jones
    My Filipino friend asked me why there are no Black people in Dunkirk.
    , @Buffalo Joe
    S. War stories usually have few women in them. "Saving Private Ryan" had the distraught mother, no lines and the secretary who discovers that the two Ryan brothers are dead. Action movies with women who can fight like a guy and knock out multiple assailants are the most ridiculous movies ever.
  53. anonymous[352] • Disclaimer says:

    Not one person who claims Tarantino is trash or overrated has ever attempted to suggest a big budget Hollywood director who’s a better or more interesting filmmaker.

    Tarantino has plenty of *scenes* that blow out of the water a hack like Spielberg’s entire ouevre.

    As for Steve’s likely suggestion: Tarantino fans don’t dismiss the Coen brothers as trash. On the other hand, Tarantino would never make dreck like Intolerable Cruelty or the ladykillers or…

    All these Tarantino haters. The real question is, compared to what? If you hate all of “contemporary Hollywood” then quit saying *Tarantino* is overrated. He’s not.

    Btw the best living directors are Michael Haneke and Wong Kar-Wai.

    But it’s laughable to suggest Tarantino defers to anyone in big budget Hollywood.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    352, Quenton, is that you?
  54. @Buffalo Joe
    Tarantino, the master of blood porn. Akira Kirosawa made great action movies, with samuri swords, without buckets, wait, make that tanker trucks, of fake blood and gore.

    True enough. Then again, people used to believe (and some still do) that cops should be able to just shoot a gun or knife out of a bad guy’s hand.

    • Replies: @Sean
    Thank Jihadi John and Brenton Tarrant for the reality check.
  55. Seriously, does Margot Robbie need to speak? Her best scenes in Wolf of Wall Street suggest not.

  56. The Hateful Eight battering of Jennifer Jason Leigh’s character and the final truly horrific lynching and mocking as she strangled by the two men that have had already beaten her face to pulp was a big mistake for Tarantino. The way his sympathetic female characters in that film were murdered was supposed to justify the lynching I suppose. Leigh’s character does very little to justify such treatment, it her brother who is the killer, and one gets the feeling she would not be touched if she had just shut up. The fact is, Tarantino is a real weirdo, and I am not just talking about his foot fetish.

    I am sure it is a coincidence that in filming Kill Bill 2 Uma Thurman actually did go off the road and get hurt diving a car in a scene Tarantino insisted she not have a stunt double for

    • Replies: @Feryl
    Tarantino does seem rather nerdy* and perverted, since he fetishizes that which he has no real-life familiarity with: violence and "tough" guys (often criminals and outlaws). His "fascination" with black virility is even more disconcerting. He also has always defensively lashed out at critics for his use of violence and profanity.

    Tarantino obviously wishes that his own life could be like the fantasy world he depicts on screen.

    *In conversations, Tarantino has a rapid fire yammer that is rather grating to listen to. He seems to have a pretty manic personality, which I find to be a bit surprising because most movie directors tend to seem rather reserved in interviews (Spielberg, Lucas, John Carpenter, John Milius, Cronenberg etc. never seem very talkative or energetic to me; Spielberg doesn't even do director commentaries).
  57. @Clifford Brown
    The Tate murder was perceived as so tragic in part because of Tate's unassailable angelic beauty. The public projected innocence and ideal womanhood on Tate because of her incredible looks. If the Tate actress has too many lines, then her symbol of innocence to Tarantino's movie audience would be tarnished.

    In reality, Tate was not so innocent in her personal life in terms of sex and drugs, not that any of that is relevant in the moral analysis of a demonic butchering of Tate and her unborn child. Tate was famously shy in person so the character may be a true depiction of Tate being a woman of few words, especially around strangers.

    There is no shortage of weirdness surrounding Tate, Polanski, who was always up to his elbows in bad juju, and the whole hippy California scene. Polanski wanted Tate to play Rosemary in Rosemary's Baby which is pretty dark, even by Polanski standards. Polanski wanted to cast his future wife as an innocent blonde who is sold out by her conniving husband to a cabal of satanic witches so that his wife could be raped by Satan in order to give birth to the Anti-Christ in exchange for success in... Hollywood.

    One of the spookier elements of the Tate tragedy is the last shot of her final film, The Thirteen Chairs, an Italian B-grade picture released in 1969, the year of her untimely death. The final shot involves an Italian barber who moves to New York and invents a miraculous hair growth formula. Well, the final shot says it all. Yeah, bad juju all around.

    https://youtu.be/59T0VehSOKI?t=338

    That’s quite a cast:

    Sharon Tate
    Orson Welles
    Terry-Thomas

    • Replies: @Jeff the Donleavy Fan
    And Vittorio De Sica.

    But I guess it's true what they say about film industry careers -- even the great ones have a lot of crap on their resumes. It's just the nature of the business.
  58. I can’t be the only one wondering when the wheel of outrage will land on Tarantino over this scene:

    He wrote and directed the film, and cast himself as a guy who casually refers to a character he never met with that most unforgivable of slurs (an act which doesn’t seem to come with a statute of limitations for anyone else). His character suffers no lasting harm and even receives a large check for his troubles.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    He cast himself in that scene so that he gets to be the only guy in film history to genuinely pull rank on Samuel L. Jackson.

    Django doesn’t count because Magic Negro.
    , @JeremiahJohnbalaya
    He gave himself a black wife so that he could use the N word.
    , @Unladen Swallow
    Among aspiring actors and directors, and Hollywood in general, Pulp Fiction is revered. Same goes for True Romance, which was Tarantino's first big-time screenwriting credit and contains the famous "Sicillian scene" with Christopher Walken and Dennis Hooper. In addition, black people love Tarantino movies, all that protects him.
  59. @Redneck farmer
    True enough. Then again, people used to believe (and some still do) that cops should be able to just shoot a gun or knife out of a bad guy's hand.

    Thank Jihadi John and Brenton Tarrant for the reality check.

  60. @S. Anonyia
    Happened in Dunkirk. There are like 3 lines spoken by women.

    Not uncommon in war movies where it's appropriate. Is pretty weird to have women having few lines in 1970s Southern California though.

    I've never been a fan of directors making movies about movies in general. Lots of navel-gazing. Like people who make a novelist the lead character of their books.

    My Filipino friend asked me why there are no Black people in Dunkirk.

  61. When asked […] why Margot Robbie – who plays Sharon Tate in his new movie Once Upon a Time in Hollywood – wasn’t given many lines, the director, 56, quipped back: ‘I just reject your hypotheses.’

    […]

    And following his short answer to the reason behind Margot’s lack of lines, the blonde beauty was left to fend for herself.

    Don’t you only get to make one of those complaints but not the other? Or does this actress only need to talk more when someone else has written what she’s supposed to say?

    It somehow reminds me of the horrifying moment at a favorite Manhattan Vietnamese restaurant when this extremely New-Yorkey old bag summoned the waiter to send back her half-eaten Pho, bitching loudly: “The soup is too big!! I didn’t know it would be SO BIG!”

  62. @nobodyofnowhere
    I can't be the only one wondering when the wheel of outrage will land on Tarantino over this scene:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idV4GQRflHM
    He wrote and directed the film, and cast himself as a guy who casually refers to a character he never met with that most unforgivable of slurs (an act which doesn't seem to come with a statute of limitations for anyone else). His character suffers no lasting harm and even receives a large check for his troubles.

    He cast himself in that scene so that he gets to be the only guy in film history to genuinely pull rank on Samuel L. Jackson.

    Django doesn’t count because Magic Negro.

  63. @Reg Cæsar
    Thomas Fleming of the Rockford Institute once criticized Ron Howard for wearing a baseball cap while not playing baseball.

    Tarantino tops Howard on the ridiculous scale by wearing a hockey jersey. A native of Knoxville.

    What team is that, by the way?

    I despise the trend of men wearing hats indoors. Hey, if you’re wearing a kippah, I’ll give you a pass – tradition, religion, and all that. Or if you are following whatever military regulations are pertinant. Fine. But otherwise, take off your f**king hat. It’s especially ridiculous in Ron Howard’s case, as he is presumably wearing the cap to cover his balding head. We all know you’re going bald Ron – there’s no secret being kept there.

    • Replies: @Feryl
    You must not be thrilled about the trend, since the early 90's, of many teenagers and "men" wearing cargo shorts or jorts for 5-12 months of the year (depending on the climate of the region they live in). Males forsaking pants is nearly as bad as the tattoo trend of the past 30 years.

    You just knew that rock music was dead when anyone not named Angus Young wore shorts on stage in the 90's.
  64. @njguy73
    Jackie Brown is also Tarantino's only adapted, not original, screenplay. So it should be Leonard Elmore who gets the Bechdel pass.

    Um, that’s eromlE dranoeL.

  65. Why doesn’t anyone, especially women, believe me when I say I am younger than Brad Pitt? Must be the white hair, what’s left of it. Do these guys use voodoo or something?

  66. Like Tarantino, I’m a Sergio Leone fan, and have read Christopher Frayling’s book about him. It contains an interview with one of the stars of The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, Lee Van Cleef, who says he cut out all the lines written for him that he considered superfluous, explaining, “The one area that I disagreed with in the Italian scripts was the dialogue. There was too damn much of it. I’d be given a goddamn half-page paragraph and say, ‘Look, I can get this across in two words.’… I had to rewrite every damn scene I was in. I reduced the whole thing — cut it down to a ‘Hello’ or a ‘Pardon me, ma’am.’ A lot of actors think that the more words they have, the more attention they get. That’s bullshit. I make people look at me. I don’t have to say a lot of words.”

    Some fans of the movie thought Eli Wallach stole the show because he had so many lines and created so much “business” for himself. However, the laconic characters portrayed by Eastwood and Van Cleef were the more dominant and archetypically male.

  67. @simple_pseudonymic_handle
    Didn't Uma Thurman throw a lot of shade at him in the me too brouhaha?

    The Bugliosi story about how the murders went down is a farce. It was a drug dealer beef and half of Hollywood was rehab ready. I can't imagine Tarantino will want to throw the curtains back on that. Also: Roman Polanski is a scumbag and he is what Tarantino wishes he was. He has the scumbag part of the man down but his movies aren't in the same league.

    It wasn’t a “drug dealer beef”.

    Sharon Tate and Abigail Folger were wise to Polanski’s use of Manson’s underage girls as prostitutes for Hollywood’s famous and wealthy at Laurel Canyon parties. Abigail Folger financed the VD/abortion clinic at which all of Manson’s girls were treated for their various and sundry infections, so she knew what was going on. Her murder was not just an accident. Tate badgered Polanski about the presence of Manson’s girls and had told him that she was getting fed up with the use of teenagers as entertainment at his parties.

    Manson himself had been jailed for pimping out underage girls back in Chicago. At one point, he pimped out his own wife. Manson ordered the hit because Tate and Folger threatened his gravy train. Also, he entertained delusions of one day being a big time entertainer and hoped to use the connections he made with Hollywood’s rich and famous to jumpstart his career. Losing access through his runaway, midwest girl/whores spelled doom for Good Time Charley. One thing for sure, he’d made up his mind that he wasn’t going back to jail for pimping.

    Hollywood ran with Bugliosi’s HelterSkelter bullcrap as a red herring, to draw attention away from the mischievous doings of its own. But we know today how prevalent the use of underage girls is even among the supposedly respectable. Right, Bill?

    • Replies: @Jeff the Donleavy Fan
    Yikes! Where are you getting this from? Even assuming that Polanski was using Manson Family girls as entertainment at parties, and Tate wanted it to stop, why would Manson go to such lengths as to order these killings?

    Hasn't the testimony of the Manson Family girls been pretty consistent with the Helter Skelter theory?

    How does the LaBianca murders fit into all this?
    , @SunBakedSuburb
    There are many undercurrents in the Charles Manson story. He became a member of the Scientology cult while incarcerated at McNeil Island in the Puget Sound. Later, after his release in 1966, he made contact with The Process Church in San Francisco. The Process Church, which originated in England, is a splinter faction of Scientology. L. Ron Hubbard was essentially a con man but he also had connections with the ONI. Cults and narcotics trafficking networks have long been use as cover for intelligence operations.
  68. The best-ever assemblages of old Hollywood tough guys was Peckinpah’s The Wild Bunch. In W.K. Stratton’s book about the making of that film, I learned that many Hollywood tough guy actors used to hang out in bars where the stunt men congregated and drink with them. It was a stuntman, Roy Sickner, who came up with the story idea for The Wild Bunch. Lee Marvin used to hang out and drink in the same bars, and Sickner pitched him the idea. Marvin wanted to do it and contributed a number of ideas, but bowed out after committing to do The Professionals, which he felt was too similar.

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    Big fan of Sam Peckinpah and Lee Marvin. It's a disappointment that Marvin was absent from The Wild Bunch (1969). But The Professionals (1966) is an above average western with a great cast. Mel Gibson is set to remake The Wild Bunch, but that will probably be shelved for an Ava DuVernay-directed revisioning with an all black female cast. Which means the remake will be a horror film rather than a western. Ava DuVernay is a female Jesus Christ figure to a lot of white progressives in this town. So long as they don't desecrate Peckinpah's Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid (1973) I'll sleep easy.
  69. Scottish people should be inventing efficient steam engines or staffing the British/American Empire or singing songs like Van Morrison.

    Margot Robbie is a beautiful Scottish antipodean actress who most likely enjoyed not having to learn lines for a movie.

    Some Danish guy named Mikkelsen was in a movie and he didn’t say much and Mikkelson didn’t have to learn many lines. Why wouldn’t actors like that? It’s better than having to read lines off a card like Brando.

  70. Margot Robbie and that Boeing plane got nose jobs.

    Margot Robbie had a nice Scottish honker but she wanted a narrow English type snout to make more bucks.

    So what. Everybody in Hollywood has their nose done. When I found out that Michelle Pheiffer had her snout clipped, I figure they all do.

    The Leprechaun O’Toole got his Irish honker anglicised too.

    Boeing was too cheap to tell the pilots that the nose of their plane liked to leap up or plunge down like a young colt.

    • Replies: @Not Raul
    Oy vey!
    , @Clifford Brown
    The Hollywood Nose Job King is in over his head in speculative real estate development.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/22/celebrity-surgeon-goes-all-in-on-180-million-bel-air-mansion.html
  71. @J.Ross
    I'm confused by this argument, Uma Thurman carrying water up the stairs is the perfect opposite of a Mary Sue. Or is that what you meant, that the Mouse buying its own tickets beats actual filmmaking?

    You’ve got to be joking. The hero always goes through trials before triumph. Both her trials and her triumph are (intentionally) absurdly masculine in nature.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    If QT's girls (who carry katanas onto consumer airlines) are unrealistic, they stil clearly follow rules, whereas the Mary Sue is just lazy sloppy writing.
  72. @Steve Sailer
    That's quite a cast:

    Sharon Tate
    Orson Welles
    Terry-Thomas

    And Vittorio De Sica.

    But I guess it’s true what they say about film industry careers — even the great ones have a lot of crap on their resumes. It’s just the nature of the business.

    • Replies: @slumber_j

    But I guess it’s true what they say about film industry careers — even the great ones have a lot of crap on their resumes. It’s just the nature of the business.
     
    As a somewhat well-known actress friend of mine says of certain of her less-good product, "Someone's gotta make the bad ones!"
  73. @Desiderius
    You’ve got to be joking. The hero always goes through trials before triumph. Both her trials and her triumph are (intentionally) absurdly masculine in nature.

    If QT’s girls (who carry katanas onto consumer airlines) are unrealistic, they stil clearly follow rules, whereas the Mary Sue is just lazy sloppy writing.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    That’s nice. I said nothing of Mary Sues.

    QTs idea of empowering women by turning them into Übermenschen has been disastrous for both women and film.
  74. @Sextus Empiricus
    It’s interesting that a character is only valued by how much they talk - especially in a predominantly visual medium.

    I have always posed a certain metaphysical difference between men and women in this way:

    Man: “I think (when necessary), therefore I am. (not that I ever really questioned the fact that I am - that seems pretty gay)

    Woman: “I talk, therefore I am. (are you even LISTENING TO MEEEE??!!)

    No, you can’t win with these complaints observations..

    In the last Superhero epic (I don’t watch ’em, so the name escapes me), these stooges were totaling the screen time to determine “fairness.” Here, they’re counting the amount of spoken dialogue.

    You can’t win because they move the goal posts. Every time.

    Like my ex-wife.

    I’d tell her I was going off to do something–she’d want me to ask if she minded. Next time, I’d ask if she minded–and she’d reply, “just tell me what you’re gonna do.”

    Did I say my ex-wife?

  75. @Reg Cæsar
    Thomas Fleming of the Rockford Institute once criticized Ron Howard for wearing a baseball cap while not playing baseball.

    Tarantino tops Howard on the ridiculous scale by wearing a hockey jersey. A native of Knoxville.

    What team is that, by the way?

    Maybe the hockey jersey is an homage to Kevin Smith.

  76. Nevermind why this test even exists or why we talk about it. Why use the term “fail?” What does it even mean to pass or fail?

  77. @Clyde
    Not a Tarantino fan except for Jackie Brown - 1997. But he deserves credit for filming this all in the LA area. He insisted on this, which made it (obviously) more expensive. Q had the juice to get it done this way. He hates farming it out to HongCouver, Toronto, etc.
    I like your weather beaten pretty boys line and will go see this in an actual movie theater. Plus there will be lots of old 60s cars running around and this part will be done right. 60s interiors and exteriors. This movie will rake it in. Though not on the retarded comic books level like Avengers xxx, Marvel xxx where Asians and their money flock to them.

    “Not a Tarantino fan except for Jackie Brown — 1997. But he deserves credit for filming this all in the LA area.”

    Spot-on. The Daily Mail journalist refers to Tarantino as a visionary. There have been very few Hollywood filmmakers that can be accurately described as visionary. Tarantino is not among that select group. His movies are about movies and are basically pop confections.

  78. @Buffalo Joe
    Tarantino, the master of blood porn. Akira Kirosawa made great action movies, with samuri swords, without buckets, wait, make that tanker trucks, of fake blood and gore.

    “Tarantino, the master of blood porn.”

    One of the reasons why QT turns me off. He has a sadist’s love for violence and pain. I could be wrong but I doubt he has ever experienced violence in real life.

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    In 1997, Tarantino slammed Don Murphy, associate producer of Natural Born Killers against a wall in a West Hollywood restaurant and punched him in the head and face.
    , @Feryl
    This comment reminds me of how so many baby Boomer draft dodgers* started writing and directing super violent movies in the 80's, and it was plain as day that they often had little understanding of how gun fights work (people not carefully handling and aiming their weapons, extremely reckless indifference to cover, etc.). In the 2000's and 2010's, Gen X movie makers generally take more care to depict realistic action scenes.

    *Vietnam movies like Platoon and Hamburger Hill were actually written by vets, and it shows.
  79. @Anon7
    The other day, I watched Khartoum again, a 1966 film with Charlton Heston, Lawrence Olivier and Ralph Richardson, which garnered an Oscar nomination for Best Screenplay.

    In the full-length film, which presents an account of real historical events at the highest levels of government in Britain and Sudan in the late 19th century, there is not one line spoken by a woman.

    I’m guessing that wouldn’t happen today.

    John Carpenter’s The Thing (1982). The best monster movie ever made. Zero chicks.

    • Replies: @Feryl
    And The Thing stiffed basically. Critics at the time pointed out that 1982 audiences vastly preferred E.T. and Poltergeist (both Spielberg affairs) over The Thing; both movies featured generally likable families, while The Thing was about a bunch of disgruntled men.
  80. @simple_pseudonymic_handle
    Didn't Uma Thurman throw a lot of shade at him in the me too brouhaha?

    The Bugliosi story about how the murders went down is a farce. It was a drug dealer beef and half of Hollywood was rehab ready. I can't imagine Tarantino will want to throw the curtains back on that. Also: Roman Polanski is a scumbag and he is what Tarantino wishes he was. He has the scumbag part of the man down but his movies aren't in the same league.

    Roman Polanski: great filmmaker and sexual deviant.

  81. QT is anti-white, a stupid lowlife POS.

  82. @ThreeCranes
    It wasn't a "drug dealer beef".

    Sharon Tate and Abigail Folger were wise to Polanski's use of Manson's underage girls as prostitutes for Hollywood's famous and wealthy at Laurel Canyon parties. Abigail Folger financed the VD/abortion clinic at which all of Manson's girls were treated for their various and sundry infections, so she knew what was going on. Her murder was not just an accident. Tate badgered Polanski about the presence of Manson's girls and had told him that she was getting fed up with the use of teenagers as entertainment at his parties.

    Manson himself had been jailed for pimping out underage girls back in Chicago. At one point, he pimped out his own wife. Manson ordered the hit because Tate and Folger threatened his gravy train. Also, he entertained delusions of one day being a big time entertainer and hoped to use the connections he made with Hollywood's rich and famous to jumpstart his career. Losing access through his runaway, midwest girl/whores spelled doom for Good Time Charley. One thing for sure, he'd made up his mind that he wasn't going back to jail for pimping.

    Hollywood ran with Bugliosi's HelterSkelter bullcrap as a red herring, to draw attention away from the mischievous doings of its own. But we know today how prevalent the use of underage girls is even among the supposedly respectable. Right, Bill?

    Yikes! Where are you getting this from? Even assuming that Polanski was using Manson Family girls as entertainment at parties, and Tate wanted it to stop, why would Manson go to such lengths as to order these killings?

    Hasn’t the testimony of the Manson Family girls been pretty consistent with the Helter Skelter theory?

    How does the LaBianca murders fit into all this?

    • Replies: @simple_pseudonymic_handle
    The Manson family girls were all drugged up all the time when Charlie could afford drugs and to begin with they were members of the Manson family. This is of dubious reliability.

    Unfortunately the evidence and facts have all been FUBAR'd. Weird thing is there is obviously a market for a disciplined investigator but the bulk of the secondary sources seem to be poor working men out to make money fast. I have been meaning to read the Schreck book for awhile now although I presume it too will be disappointing. If any Unz readers have a recommendation I would be interested in seeing it.

    The LaBianca murders aren't explained by Bugliosi either. Absolutely nothing is explained by Bugliosi. What a tool.
  83. @Reg Cæsar
    Thomas Fleming of the Rockford Institute once criticized Ron Howard for wearing a baseball cap while not playing baseball.

    Tarantino tops Howard on the ridiculous scale by wearing a hockey jersey. A native of Knoxville.

    What team is that, by the way?

    Hockey jerseys were a sartorial trend for a while among overweight early middle age men, mostly writers, in the film/TV business.

  84. @ThreeCranes
    It wasn't a "drug dealer beef".

    Sharon Tate and Abigail Folger were wise to Polanski's use of Manson's underage girls as prostitutes for Hollywood's famous and wealthy at Laurel Canyon parties. Abigail Folger financed the VD/abortion clinic at which all of Manson's girls were treated for their various and sundry infections, so she knew what was going on. Her murder was not just an accident. Tate badgered Polanski about the presence of Manson's girls and had told him that she was getting fed up with the use of teenagers as entertainment at his parties.

    Manson himself had been jailed for pimping out underage girls back in Chicago. At one point, he pimped out his own wife. Manson ordered the hit because Tate and Folger threatened his gravy train. Also, he entertained delusions of one day being a big time entertainer and hoped to use the connections he made with Hollywood's rich and famous to jumpstart his career. Losing access through his runaway, midwest girl/whores spelled doom for Good Time Charley. One thing for sure, he'd made up his mind that he wasn't going back to jail for pimping.

    Hollywood ran with Bugliosi's HelterSkelter bullcrap as a red herring, to draw attention away from the mischievous doings of its own. But we know today how prevalent the use of underage girls is even among the supposedly respectable. Right, Bill?

    There are many undercurrents in the Charles Manson story. He became a member of the Scientology cult while incarcerated at McNeil Island in the Puget Sound. Later, after his release in 1966, he made contact with The Process Church in San Francisco. The Process Church, which originated in England, is a splinter faction of Scientology. L. Ron Hubbard was essentially a con man but he also had connections with the ONI. Cults and narcotics trafficking networks have long been use as cover for intelligence operations.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    L Ron was really a weird and sick guy but he was very likely also a tool of one or more intelligence agencies. He fancied himself a naval officer, and was called "Commodore" internally by Co$ personally.

    When I was working at a railyard on a temp gig, one of the contract van drivers was a distinguished looking older white man with white hair who wore a naval uniform hat and was referred to by all and sundry-from the other drivers to the terminal manager and the yardmasters- as "Commodore". He was always polite and likeable. I asked him why he was called "Commodore", a rank no longer used by the USN and having the whiff of Trekkiedom about it. He explained that the elected chief of yacht clubs is traditionally known as the Commodore, and he had been the commodore of his yacht club for decades. Now this "yacht club" was actually, I found out, a bunch of yokels with trailer boats that liked drinking more than boating, but, what do you expect in a city 1500 miles from salt water?

    Also, LR Hubbard was on the lam and staying in the Commodore Hotel in Wichita when Scientology was actually formally concocted.


    I doubt that LRH was considered a major asset by any intelligence agency at any time at least for very long. He was just too much of a screwup and generally batshit crazy. Maybe he was a "designated decoy" or a budget burner??
  85. @Harry Baldwin
    The best-ever assemblages of old Hollywood tough guys was Peckinpah's The Wild Bunch. In W.K. Stratton's book about the making of that film, I learned that many Hollywood tough guy actors used to hang out in bars where the stunt men congregated and drink with them. It was a stuntman, Roy Sickner, who came up with the story idea for The Wild Bunch. Lee Marvin used to hang out and drink in the same bars, and Sickner pitched him the idea. Marvin wanted to do it and contributed a number of ideas, but bowed out after committing to do The Professionals, which he felt was too similar.

    Big fan of Sam Peckinpah and Lee Marvin. It’s a disappointment that Marvin was absent from The Wild Bunch (1969). But The Professionals (1966) is an above average western with a great cast. Mel Gibson is set to remake The Wild Bunch, but that will probably be shelved for an Ava DuVernay-directed revisioning with an all black female cast. Which means the remake will be a horror film rather than a western. Ava DuVernay is a female Jesus Christ figure to a lot of white progressives in this town. So long as they don’t desecrate Peckinpah’s Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid (1973) I’ll sleep easy.

  86. ‘a lot could be adequately done without speaking’

    Indeed!

  87. @Charles Pewitt
    Margot Robbie and that Boeing plane got nose jobs.

    Margot Robbie had a nice Scottish honker but she wanted a narrow English type snout to make more bucks.

    So what. Everybody in Hollywood has their nose done. When I found out that Michelle Pheiffer had her snout clipped, I figure they all do.

    The Leprechaun O'Toole got his Irish honker anglicised too.

    Boeing was too cheap to tell the pilots that the nose of their plane liked to leap up or plunge down like a young colt.

    Oy vey!

  88. @S. Anonyia
    Happened in Dunkirk. There are like 3 lines spoken by women.

    Not uncommon in war movies where it's appropriate. Is pretty weird to have women having few lines in 1970s Southern California though.

    I've never been a fan of directors making movies about movies in general. Lots of navel-gazing. Like people who make a novelist the lead character of their books.

    S. War stories usually have few women in them. “Saving Private Ryan” had the distraught mother, no lines and the secretary who discovers that the two Ryan brothers are dead. Action movies with women who can fight like a guy and knock out multiple assailants are the most ridiculous movies ever.

  89. @anonymous
    Not one person who claims Tarantino is trash or overrated has ever attempted to suggest a big budget Hollywood director who's a better or more interesting filmmaker.

    Tarantino has plenty of *scenes* that blow out of the water a hack like Spielberg's entire ouevre.

    As for Steve's likely suggestion: Tarantino fans don't dismiss the Coen brothers as trash. On the other hand, Tarantino would never make dreck like Intolerable Cruelty or the ladykillers or...

    All these Tarantino haters. The real question is, compared to what? If you hate all of "contemporary Hollywood" then quit saying *Tarantino* is overrated. He's not.

    Btw the best living directors are Michael Haneke and Wong Kar-Wai.

    But it's laughable to suggest Tarantino defers to anyone in big budget Hollywood.

    352, Quenton, is that you?

  90. @Jeff the Donleavy Fan
    Yikes! Where are you getting this from? Even assuming that Polanski was using Manson Family girls as entertainment at parties, and Tate wanted it to stop, why would Manson go to such lengths as to order these killings?

    Hasn't the testimony of the Manson Family girls been pretty consistent with the Helter Skelter theory?

    How does the LaBianca murders fit into all this?

    The Manson family girls were all drugged up all the time when Charlie could afford drugs and to begin with they were members of the Manson family. This is of dubious reliability.

    Unfortunately the evidence and facts have all been FUBAR’d. Weird thing is there is obviously a market for a disciplined investigator but the bulk of the secondary sources seem to be poor working men out to make money fast. I have been meaning to read the Schreck book for awhile now although I presume it too will be disappointing. If any Unz readers have a recommendation I would be interested in seeing it.

    The LaBianca murders aren’t explained by Bugliosi either. Absolutely nothing is explained by Bugliosi. What a tool.

  91. “why would Manson go to such lengths as to order these killings?”

    because he was a sociopathic nutcase. Crafty enough to discern what was good for his own advancement but not possessed of the moral sense to weigh that in the accepted scales of social justice.

    And why wouldn’t the girls maintain the illusion? Why wouldn’t they nod and say, “Helter Skelter, yeah, that’s the ticket.”? They were and are loyal to Charlie and his memory right up to the present day.

    I think that you should read up a bit about who Charles Manson was before he had migrated to California.

    LaBianca murders were, unfortunately for them, the clan’s misguided attempt to throw police off the scent and the very fact of their having been committed points to the truth of what I am saying i.e. that Manson and associates would go to extreme lengths–even the murder of innocents–to make things roll for Charlie.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    There's a great little "red flag" where Beach Boy Dennis Wilson kicked Manson's ass because Manson, who was a purveyor of undocumented pharmaceuticals to Hollywood kids and was hanging out at Wilson's place, thought it would be a good idea to brandish a revolver at him.
  92. @Jeff the Donleavy Fan
    The real Sharon Tate was not known as a great conversationalist. She was a simple, sweet girl who was cursed by the gods with an unearthly physical beauty. Tarantino probably was actually being historically accurate in not giving her a lot of dialogue.

    I haven't seen Valley of the Dolls, but I have seen Polanski's The Fearless Vampire Killers multiple times, and Tate didn't have a lot of lines in that one, either, even though she was the female lead and the director was her boyfriend.

    I did see Valley of the Dolls back then but was much more into Patty Duke and Barbara Parkins to recall much of anyone else

  93. Bechdel is loathesome.

  94. @Sextus Empiricus
    It’s interesting that a character is only valued by how much they talk - especially in a predominantly visual medium.

    I have always posed a certain metaphysical difference between men and women in this way:

    Man: “I think (when necessary), therefore I am. (not that I ever really questioned the fact that I am - that seems pretty gay)

    Woman: “I talk, therefore I am. (are you even LISTENING TO MEEEE??!!)

    It’s interesting that a character is only valued by how much they talk – especially in a predominantly visual medium.

    Look at Bechdel’s visuals, and it’s all clear.

  95. @J.Ross
    If QT's girls (who carry katanas onto consumer airlines) are unrealistic, they stil clearly follow rules, whereas the Mary Sue is just lazy sloppy writing.

    That’s nice. I said nothing of Mary Sues.

    QTs idea of empowering women by turning them into Übermenschen has been disastrous for both women and film.

  96. @ThreeCranes
    "why would Manson go to such lengths as to order these killings?"

    because he was a sociopathic nutcase. Crafty enough to discern what was good for his own advancement but not possessed of the moral sense to weigh that in the accepted scales of social justice.

    And why wouldn't the girls maintain the illusion? Why wouldn't they nod and say, "Helter Skelter, yeah, that's the ticket."? They were and are loyal to Charlie and his memory right up to the present day.

    I think that you should read up a bit about who Charles Manson was before he had migrated to California.

    LaBianca murders were, unfortunately for them, the clan's misguided attempt to throw police off the scent and the very fact of their having been committed points to the truth of what I am saying i.e. that Manson and associates would go to extreme lengths--even the murder of innocents--to make things roll for Charlie.

    There’s a great little “red flag” where Beach Boy Dennis Wilson kicked Manson’s ass because Manson, who was a purveyor of undocumented pharmaceuticals to Hollywood kids and was hanging out at Wilson’s place, thought it would be a good idea to brandish a revolver at him.

  97. @PiltdownMan
    IMDb lists numerous Sixties era names in full cast/character list that Tarantino has written into his fictional script (all played by actors, of course). It looks like it will be an interesting movie.

    Tarantino is obsessively knowledgeable about American popular culture from the two decades before he reached adulthood. I wonder, though, if the time for Sixties nostalgia movies is passing—few people under the age of 55 or so will instantly pick up on the references. I mean, who remembers now who Jay Sebring was other than people who remember the Tate-Labianca murders from that time ?

    1980’s nostalgia plays really well with Millennials; since the mid-2000’s more and more pop culture references, or takes place in, the 80’s. Family Guy, at least the earlier episodes, seem to practically take place in the 80’s, judging from constant references to that decade.

    Move review podcasts, and YouTube channels, generally give the impression that pre-1980 movies draw less interest, with some obvious high profile exceptions (E.g. The Exorcist, the Godfather, Star Wars etc.).

    I would argue that such things like audio production, clothing fabrics, accents etc. tend to make pre-1980 pop culture seem extremely dated to Millennials and Gen Z. 70’s movies and songs often seem very austere, sparse, sort of airy; younger people who grew up with “modern” art aesthetics find the pre-MTV age to be sort of drab and vaguely off-putting. There are techniques (and technology) to make visual and aural stuff more striking, more immediate, but many of these didn’t really exist until the 80’s. For example, movie cameras that accurately captured nighttime exterior environments didn’t really exist until the early 80’s (so pre-1980 filmmakers needed to have very extensive and skillful lighting to make outdoor nightime footage watchable).

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Yes, that makes sense, a lot of little technical improvements/changes over the decades make it harder for Today's Youth to watch old stuff. B&W is the most obvious, but there are numerous other changes.

    Truffaut made a movie in the 1970s called "Day for Night" or vice-versa about a director making a movie set at night that he had to shoot during the day with this dumb dark grey filter over the lens.

    , @Anonymous

    For example, movie cameras that accurately captured nighttime exterior environments didn’t really exist until the early 80’s (so pre-1980 filmmakers needed to have very extensive and skillful lighting to make outdoor nightime footage watchable).
     
    Cameras didn't change. The film and to an extent the optics did.

    This was all film: digital "movies" (as opposed to videotape) are a 00s thing.
  98. @SunBakedSuburb
    John Carpenter's The Thing (1982). The best monster movie ever made. Zero chicks.

    And The Thing stiffed basically. Critics at the time pointed out that 1982 audiences vastly preferred E.T. and Poltergeist (both Spielberg affairs) over The Thing; both movies featured generally likable families, while The Thing was about a bunch of disgruntled men.

  99. @Mr. Anon
    I despise the trend of men wearing hats indoors. Hey, if you're wearing a kippah, I'll give you a pass - tradition, religion, and all that. Or if you are following whatever military regulations are pertinant. Fine. But otherwise, take off your f**king hat. It's especially ridiculous in Ron Howard's case, as he is presumably wearing the cap to cover his balding head. We all know you're going bald Ron - there's no secret being kept there.

    You must not be thrilled about the trend, since the early 90’s, of many teenagers and “men” wearing cargo shorts or jorts for 5-12 months of the year (depending on the climate of the region they live in). Males forsaking pants is nearly as bad as the tattoo trend of the past 30 years.

    You just knew that rock music was dead when anyone not named Angus Young wore shorts on stage in the 90’s.

  100. @Feryl
    1980's nostalgia plays really well with Millennials; since the mid-2000's more and more pop culture references, or takes place in, the 80's. Family Guy, at least the earlier episodes, seem to practically take place in the 80's, judging from constant references to that decade.

    Move review podcasts, and YouTube channels, generally give the impression that pre-1980 movies draw less interest, with some obvious high profile exceptions (E.g. The Exorcist, the Godfather, Star Wars etc.).

    I would argue that such things like audio production, clothing fabrics, accents etc. tend to make pre-1980 pop culture seem extremely dated to Millennials and Gen Z. 70's movies and songs often seem very austere, sparse, sort of airy; younger people who grew up with "modern" art aesthetics find the pre-MTV age to be sort of drab and vaguely off-putting. There are techniques (and technology) to make visual and aural stuff more striking, more immediate, but many of these didn't really exist until the 80's. For example, movie cameras that accurately captured nighttime exterior environments didn't really exist until the early 80's (so pre-1980 filmmakers needed to have very extensive and skillful lighting to make outdoor nightime footage watchable).

    Yes, that makes sense, a lot of little technical improvements/changes over the decades make it harder for Today’s Youth to watch old stuff. B&W is the most obvious, but there are numerous other changes.

    Truffaut made a movie in the 1970s called “Day for Night” or vice-versa about a director making a movie set at night that he had to shoot during the day with this dumb dark grey filter over the lens.

    • Replies: @Feryl
    The terrific thing about MTV was that it allowed for such a wide range of visual techniques to be used, that it basically created an arms race as to who could make the most exciting looking video. By circa 1990, you could argue that a lot of directors were going a bit too....far, but musically and visually the 1980's created a much more flamboyant (and, uh, disinterested in playing by historic creative rules*) creative play book that still is with us today.

    *Alternative rock, hard core punk, thrash/death metal etc. are all products of the 80's, intensifying certain ideas that Prog Rock and Punk Rock initiated in the 70's. Pre-80's artists typically felt obliged to stick to certain elements of musical convention and training**, which a lot of 80's artists blatantly defied. The results were often rather discordant and extreme to the uninitiated, but some people were really fed up with late 70's soft rock and disco, evidently.

    **Punk is the exception that proves the rule, and fortunately, 1980's heavy metal/alternative rock (including New Wave) would graft talented musicianship and unusual song structures onto the aesthetic dissonance of punk. Who in 1975 thought that Metallica would, in the 80's, create a sound that was a cross between Rush, Black Flag, and Judas Priest***?

    ***Ok, Motorhead in the 70's became the first "extreme" heavy metal band, much like how the Talking Heads and Devo were the first "alternative" rock groups. But Metallica were like Motorhead with more melody and a lot more music intelligence.

    The Boomer posters on here, I feel, are probably to a huge extent not aware of just how musically ground breaking the 80's were. Gen X grew up with the best music, although almost all of it was created by Boomers (interesting how many Boomers seem to think that the Silent Generation, and some very early Boomers, made the best music in the 60's and early 70's).
    , @Feryl
    Stage blood is another thing; it often looks kind of crayon-ish (thick, pale, chalky) in pre-1980 color movies, although certain 70's movies did get better looking stuff (e.g, the Sorcerer from 1977 has a gunshot to the head scene that is still pretty gnarly, due to the copious amount of good quality stage blood used). FX artists seemed to all get access to better blood making formulas/materials in the 80's.
  101. @Sean
    The Hateful Eight battering of Jennifer Jason Leigh's character and the final truly horrific lynching and mocking as she strangled by the two men that have had already beaten her face to pulp was a big mistake for Tarantino. The way his sympathetic female characters in that film were murdered was supposed to justify the lynching I suppose. Leigh's character does very little to justify such treatment, it her brother who is the killer, and one gets the feeling she would not be touched if she had just shut up. The fact is, Tarantino is a real weirdo, and I am not just talking about his foot fetish.

    https://youtu.be/5_bVTwop4-Y?t=70


    I am sure it is a coincidence that in filming Kill Bill 2 Uma Thurman actually did go off the road and get hurt diving a car in a scene Tarantino insisted she not have a stunt double for

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qfdwn9OCB3I

    Tarantino does seem rather nerdy* and perverted, since he fetishizes that which he has no real-life familiarity with: violence and “tough” guys (often criminals and outlaws). His “fascination” with black virility is even more disconcerting. He also has always defensively lashed out at critics for his use of violence and profanity.

    Tarantino obviously wishes that his own life could be like the fantasy world he depicts on screen.

    *In conversations, Tarantino has a rapid fire yammer that is rather grating to listen to. He seems to have a pretty manic personality, which I find to be a bit surprising because most movie directors tend to seem rather reserved in interviews (Spielberg, Lucas, John Carpenter, John Milius, Cronenberg etc. never seem very talkative or energetic to me; Spielberg doesn’t even do director commentaries).

    • Replies: @Sean

    Tarantino obviously wishes that his own life could be like the fantasy world he depicts on screen
     
    . Every novelist writes about the world he would like to be in.

    As for techniques such as night shooting: Touch of Evil? I think acting technique alters. Tom Noonan says never put emphasis on a line.
    , @Anon87
    I always enjoyed Norm Macdonald's parody of Tarantino.
  102. Probably in a minority of one but it’s often struck me that the greatest portrayal of US ideal womanhood was Teddy Carella, the stunning deaf-mute wife of Steve Carella of McBain’s 87th Precinct novels. Gorgeous, smart, crazy about her husband and she can’t yap at him all the time.

  103. @Jeff the Donleavy Fan
    And Vittorio De Sica.

    But I guess it's true what they say about film industry careers -- even the great ones have a lot of crap on their resumes. It's just the nature of the business.

    But I guess it’s true what they say about film industry careers — even the great ones have a lot of crap on their resumes. It’s just the nature of the business.

    As a somewhat well-known actress friend of mine says of certain of her less-good product, “Someone’s gotta make the bad ones!”

  104. @Steve Sailer
    Yes, that makes sense, a lot of little technical improvements/changes over the decades make it harder for Today's Youth to watch old stuff. B&W is the most obvious, but there are numerous other changes.

    Truffaut made a movie in the 1970s called "Day for Night" or vice-versa about a director making a movie set at night that he had to shoot during the day with this dumb dark grey filter over the lens.

    The terrific thing about MTV was that it allowed for such a wide range of visual techniques to be used, that it basically created an arms race as to who could make the most exciting looking video. By circa 1990, you could argue that a lot of directors were going a bit too….far, but musically and visually the 1980’s created a much more flamboyant (and, uh, disinterested in playing by historic creative rules*) creative play book that still is with us today.

    *Alternative rock, hard core punk, thrash/death metal etc. are all products of the 80’s, intensifying certain ideas that Prog Rock and Punk Rock initiated in the 70’s. Pre-80’s artists typically felt obliged to stick to certain elements of musical convention and training**, which a lot of 80’s artists blatantly defied. The results were often rather discordant and extreme to the uninitiated, but some people were really fed up with late 70’s soft rock and disco, evidently.

    **Punk is the exception that proves the rule, and fortunately, 1980’s heavy metal/alternative rock (including New Wave) would graft talented musicianship and unusual song structures onto the aesthetic dissonance of punk. Who in 1975 thought that Metallica would, in the 80’s, create a sound that was a cross between Rush, Black Flag, and Judas Priest***?

    ***Ok, Motorhead in the 70’s became the first “extreme” heavy metal band, much like how the Talking Heads and Devo were the first “alternative” rock groups. But Metallica were like Motorhead with more melody and a lot more music intelligence.

    The Boomer posters on here, I feel, are probably to a huge extent not aware of just how musically ground breaking the 80’s were. Gen X grew up with the best music, although almost all of it was created by Boomers (interesting how many Boomers seem to think that the Silent Generation, and some very early Boomers, made the best music in the 60’s and early 70’s).

    • Replies: @Desiderius

    Ok, Motorhead in the 70’s became the first “extreme” heavy metal band
     
    https://youtu.be/K3b6SGoN6dA
    , @PiltdownMan

    The Boomer posters on here, I feel, are probably to a huge extent not aware of just how musically ground breaking the 80’s were. Gen X grew up with the best music, although almost all of it was created by Boomers (interesting how many Boomers seem to think that the Silent Generation, and some very early Boomers, made the best music in the 60’s and early 70’s).
     
    Perhaps. Mr. Sailer is a late Boomer (I think he was born in 1958) and is quite knowledgeable about 1980s music. A lot of late Boomers typically got their first steady, salaried jobs in the 1980s, and, for the first time, had enough spending money to start buying all the records they really wanted to pursue their interest in current music.

    As for innovation and being musically ground-breaking, maybe every generation tends to view the new popular music of their adolescence and early twenties as being innovative on technical grounds. My older siblings and their cohort, boomers from the late 1940s, used to consider the Beatles to be the sharp breaking point with everything that went before them, because of the unexpected chord changes they used. That was a widespread view at the time. Boomers slightly younger than them considered the rock music of the later Sixties to be that separating point, because of the experimental concept albums that were the new innovation then.

    I remember even my Dad (born 1917) saying that the real dividing point in popular music was in the 1940s, because of the revolutionary influence of Cuban and Latin dance rhythms.

  105. @HammerJack

    I won’t watch Tarantino movies anymore after Django.
     
    Fair enough. However, and FWIW, I quit after "Pulp Fiction" and don't believe I've missed much.

    Pulp Fiction is the single most overrated film of all time.

    Reservoir Dogs is cool though.

  106. @Steve Sailer
    Yes, that makes sense, a lot of little technical improvements/changes over the decades make it harder for Today's Youth to watch old stuff. B&W is the most obvious, but there are numerous other changes.

    Truffaut made a movie in the 1970s called "Day for Night" or vice-versa about a director making a movie set at night that he had to shoot during the day with this dumb dark grey filter over the lens.

    Stage blood is another thing; it often looks kind of crayon-ish (thick, pale, chalky) in pre-1980 color movies, although certain 70’s movies did get better looking stuff (e.g, the Sorcerer from 1977 has a gunshot to the head scene that is still pretty gnarly, due to the copious amount of good quality stage blood used). FX artists seemed to all get access to better blood making formulas/materials in the 80’s.

  107. @Feryl
    The terrific thing about MTV was that it allowed for such a wide range of visual techniques to be used, that it basically created an arms race as to who could make the most exciting looking video. By circa 1990, you could argue that a lot of directors were going a bit too....far, but musically and visually the 1980's created a much more flamboyant (and, uh, disinterested in playing by historic creative rules*) creative play book that still is with us today.

    *Alternative rock, hard core punk, thrash/death metal etc. are all products of the 80's, intensifying certain ideas that Prog Rock and Punk Rock initiated in the 70's. Pre-80's artists typically felt obliged to stick to certain elements of musical convention and training**, which a lot of 80's artists blatantly defied. The results were often rather discordant and extreme to the uninitiated, but some people were really fed up with late 70's soft rock and disco, evidently.

    **Punk is the exception that proves the rule, and fortunately, 1980's heavy metal/alternative rock (including New Wave) would graft talented musicianship and unusual song structures onto the aesthetic dissonance of punk. Who in 1975 thought that Metallica would, in the 80's, create a sound that was a cross between Rush, Black Flag, and Judas Priest***?

    ***Ok, Motorhead in the 70's became the first "extreme" heavy metal band, much like how the Talking Heads and Devo were the first "alternative" rock groups. But Metallica were like Motorhead with more melody and a lot more music intelligence.

    The Boomer posters on here, I feel, are probably to a huge extent not aware of just how musically ground breaking the 80's were. Gen X grew up with the best music, although almost all of it was created by Boomers (interesting how many Boomers seem to think that the Silent Generation, and some very early Boomers, made the best music in the 60's and early 70's).

    Ok, Motorhead in the 70’s became the first “extreme” heavy metal band

    • Agree: slumber_j
  108. Anonymous[193] • Disclaimer says:
    @SunBakedSuburb
    There are many undercurrents in the Charles Manson story. He became a member of the Scientology cult while incarcerated at McNeil Island in the Puget Sound. Later, after his release in 1966, he made contact with The Process Church in San Francisco. The Process Church, which originated in England, is a splinter faction of Scientology. L. Ron Hubbard was essentially a con man but he also had connections with the ONI. Cults and narcotics trafficking networks have long been use as cover for intelligence operations.

    L Ron was really a weird and sick guy but he was very likely also a tool of one or more intelligence agencies. He fancied himself a naval officer, and was called “Commodore” internally by Co$ personally.

    When I was working at a railyard on a temp gig, one of the contract van drivers was a distinguished looking older white man with white hair who wore a naval uniform hat and was referred to by all and sundry-from the other drivers to the terminal manager and the yardmasters- as “Commodore”. He was always polite and likeable. I asked him why he was called “Commodore”, a rank no longer used by the USN and having the whiff of Trekkiedom about it. He explained that the elected chief of yacht clubs is traditionally known as the Commodore, and he had been the commodore of his yacht club for decades. Now this “yacht club” was actually, I found out, a bunch of yokels with trailer boats that liked drinking more than boating, but, what do you expect in a city 1500 miles from salt water?

    Also, LR Hubbard was on the lam and staying in the Commodore Hotel in Wichita when Scientology was actually formally concocted.

    I doubt that LRH was considered a major asset by any intelligence agency at any time at least for very long. He was just too much of a screwup and generally batshit crazy. Maybe he was a “designated decoy” or a budget burner??

  109. Anonymous[193] • Disclaimer says:
    @Feryl
    1980's nostalgia plays really well with Millennials; since the mid-2000's more and more pop culture references, or takes place in, the 80's. Family Guy, at least the earlier episodes, seem to practically take place in the 80's, judging from constant references to that decade.

    Move review podcasts, and YouTube channels, generally give the impression that pre-1980 movies draw less interest, with some obvious high profile exceptions (E.g. The Exorcist, the Godfather, Star Wars etc.).

    I would argue that such things like audio production, clothing fabrics, accents etc. tend to make pre-1980 pop culture seem extremely dated to Millennials and Gen Z. 70's movies and songs often seem very austere, sparse, sort of airy; younger people who grew up with "modern" art aesthetics find the pre-MTV age to be sort of drab and vaguely off-putting. There are techniques (and technology) to make visual and aural stuff more striking, more immediate, but many of these didn't really exist until the 80's. For example, movie cameras that accurately captured nighttime exterior environments didn't really exist until the early 80's (so pre-1980 filmmakers needed to have very extensive and skillful lighting to make outdoor nightime footage watchable).

    For example, movie cameras that accurately captured nighttime exterior environments didn’t really exist until the early 80’s (so pre-1980 filmmakers needed to have very extensive and skillful lighting to make outdoor nightime footage watchable).

    Cameras didn’t change. The film and to an extent the optics did.

    This was all film: digital “movies” (as opposed to videotape) are a 00s thing.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Kubrick's Barry Lyndon in 1974 was publicized as having a breakthrough scene lit solely by candlelight.
  110. @Anonymous

    For example, movie cameras that accurately captured nighttime exterior environments didn’t really exist until the early 80’s (so pre-1980 filmmakers needed to have very extensive and skillful lighting to make outdoor nightime footage watchable).
     
    Cameras didn't change. The film and to an extent the optics did.

    This was all film: digital "movies" (as opposed to videotape) are a 00s thing.

    Kubrick’s Barry Lyndon in 1974 was publicized as having a breakthrough scene lit solely by candlelight.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    Famed German optical company Zeiss made ten lenses with a giant aperture of 50mm f/0.7 to photograph the far side of the Moon. By comparison, the brightest lenses used by consumer cameras let in about a quarter as much light.

    NASA bought six of them, and Kubrick bought three to shoot the candlelit scenes in Barry Lyndon.


    There are some detailed articles about it all on the internet, for curious cinematography enthusiasts.

  111. @Charles Pewitt
    Margot Robbie and that Boeing plane got nose jobs.

    Margot Robbie had a nice Scottish honker but she wanted a narrow English type snout to make more bucks.

    So what. Everybody in Hollywood has their nose done. When I found out that Michelle Pheiffer had her snout clipped, I figure they all do.

    The Leprechaun O'Toole got his Irish honker anglicised too.

    Boeing was too cheap to tell the pilots that the nose of their plane liked to leap up or plunge down like a young colt.

    The Hollywood Nose Job King is in over his head in speculative real estate development.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/22/celebrity-surgeon-goes-all-in-on-180-million-bel-air-mansion.html

  112. @nobodyofnowhere
    I can't be the only one wondering when the wheel of outrage will land on Tarantino over this scene:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idV4GQRflHM
    He wrote and directed the film, and cast himself as a guy who casually refers to a character he never met with that most unforgivable of slurs (an act which doesn't seem to come with a statute of limitations for anyone else). His character suffers no lasting harm and even receives a large check for his troubles.

    He gave himself a black wife so that he could use the N word.

  113. @Steve Sailer
    I want to see the Editor's Cut of Peter Jackson's "King Kong."

    The French plantation scenes in the ‘Apocalypse Now’ d.c. brought the movie to a halt.

    • Agree: Harry Baldwin
  114. @Steve Sailer
    Kubrick's Barry Lyndon in 1974 was publicized as having a breakthrough scene lit solely by candlelight.

    Famed German optical company Zeiss made ten lenses with a giant aperture of 50mm f/0.7 to photograph the far side of the Moon. By comparison, the brightest lenses used by consumer cameras let in about a quarter as much light.

    NASA bought six of them, and Kubrick bought three to shoot the candlelit scenes in Barry Lyndon.

    There are some detailed articles about it all on the internet, for curious cinematography enthusiasts.

  115. @Feryl
    The terrific thing about MTV was that it allowed for such a wide range of visual techniques to be used, that it basically created an arms race as to who could make the most exciting looking video. By circa 1990, you could argue that a lot of directors were going a bit too....far, but musically and visually the 1980's created a much more flamboyant (and, uh, disinterested in playing by historic creative rules*) creative play book that still is with us today.

    *Alternative rock, hard core punk, thrash/death metal etc. are all products of the 80's, intensifying certain ideas that Prog Rock and Punk Rock initiated in the 70's. Pre-80's artists typically felt obliged to stick to certain elements of musical convention and training**, which a lot of 80's artists blatantly defied. The results were often rather discordant and extreme to the uninitiated, but some people were really fed up with late 70's soft rock and disco, evidently.

    **Punk is the exception that proves the rule, and fortunately, 1980's heavy metal/alternative rock (including New Wave) would graft talented musicianship and unusual song structures onto the aesthetic dissonance of punk. Who in 1975 thought that Metallica would, in the 80's, create a sound that was a cross between Rush, Black Flag, and Judas Priest***?

    ***Ok, Motorhead in the 70's became the first "extreme" heavy metal band, much like how the Talking Heads and Devo were the first "alternative" rock groups. But Metallica were like Motorhead with more melody and a lot more music intelligence.

    The Boomer posters on here, I feel, are probably to a huge extent not aware of just how musically ground breaking the 80's were. Gen X grew up with the best music, although almost all of it was created by Boomers (interesting how many Boomers seem to think that the Silent Generation, and some very early Boomers, made the best music in the 60's and early 70's).

    The Boomer posters on here, I feel, are probably to a huge extent not aware of just how musically ground breaking the 80’s were. Gen X grew up with the best music, although almost all of it was created by Boomers (interesting how many Boomers seem to think that the Silent Generation, and some very early Boomers, made the best music in the 60’s and early 70’s).

    Perhaps. Mr. Sailer is a late Boomer (I think he was born in 1958) and is quite knowledgeable about 1980s music. A lot of late Boomers typically got their first steady, salaried jobs in the 1980s, and, for the first time, had enough spending money to start buying all the records they really wanted to pursue their interest in current music.

    As for innovation and being musically ground-breaking, maybe every generation tends to view the new popular music of their adolescence and early twenties as being innovative on technical grounds. My older siblings and their cohort, boomers from the late 1940s, used to consider the Beatles to be the sharp breaking point with everything that went before them, because of the unexpected chord changes they used. That was a widespread view at the time. Boomers slightly younger than them considered the rock music of the later Sixties to be that separating point, because of the experimental concept albums that were the new innovation then.

    I remember even my Dad (born 1917) saying that the real dividing point in popular music was in the 1940s, because of the revolutionary influence of Cuban and Latin dance rhythms.

    • Replies: @Feryl
    One thing that can be said with objectivity is that pop and rock music has been getting much dumber since the late 90's. Really, they can scientifically measure song structure and vocal parts to determine the level of sophistication. Pop music has actually been getting dumber since the early 70's, although hard rock in terms of Prog rock/heavy metal/Alternative rock did a lot of experimenting with strange time signatures and such like that in the 1970's-early 90's (though mainstream hard rock, with the exception of, uh, Tool, has largely abandoned progressive experimentation since the late 90's). Rock music has gone way down the tubes since 1995, long gone are the days when Dream Theater got decent MTV airplay in the early 90's.

    As for innovation and being musically ground-breaking, maybe every generation tends to view the new popular music of their adolescence and early twenties as being innovative on technical grounds. My older siblings and their cohort, boomers from the late 1940s, used to consider the Beatles to be the sharp breaking point with everything that went before them, because of the unexpected chord changes they used. That was a widespread view at the time. Boomers slightly younger than them considered the rock music of the later Sixties to be that separating point, because of the experimental concept albums that were the new innovation then.

    The Beatles, The Stones, The Doors etc. were indeed innovators, however it has to be noted that in terms of musical ambition and technical chops, the prog rock and metal bands of the 70's and 80's absolutely annihilate any band that started in the early 60's. To the point that some Gen X-ers and Millennials who grew up on Rush and Metallica often find older rock music to be kinda boring. That being said, much of the mainstream rock music of post-1995 is so pathetically simple and rote that the only "advantage" it has over 60's rock music is that it was recorded and mixed with better technology.
  116. @SunBakedSuburb
    "Tarantino, the master of blood porn."

    One of the reasons why QT turns me off. He has a sadist's love for violence and pain. I could be wrong but I doubt he has ever experienced violence in real life.

    In 1997, Tarantino slammed Don Murphy, associate producer of Natural Born Killers against a wall in a West Hollywood restaurant and punched him in the head and face.

  117. @nobodyofnowhere
    I can't be the only one wondering when the wheel of outrage will land on Tarantino over this scene:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idV4GQRflHM
    He wrote and directed the film, and cast himself as a guy who casually refers to a character he never met with that most unforgivable of slurs (an act which doesn't seem to come with a statute of limitations for anyone else). His character suffers no lasting harm and even receives a large check for his troubles.

    Among aspiring actors and directors, and Hollywood in general, Pulp Fiction is revered. Same goes for True Romance, which was Tarantino’s first big-time screenwriting credit and contains the famous “Sicillian scene” with Christopher Walken and Dennis Hooper. In addition, black people love Tarantino movies, all that protects him.

  118. So, does this mean Tarantino’s done with his racial grievance porn phase?

    Let’s hope so. His last watchable film was Death Proof (2007).

  119. @Jean Skiskel

    I considered the book closed after Bullitt.
     
    Tarantino lost me after Django. Quite an abortion. Jamie Fox was in over his head. Stupid screenplay. Haven't watched anything of his since.

    I'm not telling tales out of school when I say that absolutely everything Tarantino knows about movie-making, it's style and substance, he learned from "Frankenhooker." Arguably the best motion picture produced in 1990.

    A well known running joke is:

    Q: What was really in that glowing briefcase in Pulp Fiction?
    A: A videotape of Frankenhooker

    I only wish a reporter would have cornered him with a Frankenhooker accusation, so I could watch the poser sweat:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDAaW-SL_sM

    I believe I could drink bourbon with you, sir.

  120. @PiltdownMan

    The Boomer posters on here, I feel, are probably to a huge extent not aware of just how musically ground breaking the 80’s were. Gen X grew up with the best music, although almost all of it was created by Boomers (interesting how many Boomers seem to think that the Silent Generation, and some very early Boomers, made the best music in the 60’s and early 70’s).
     
    Perhaps. Mr. Sailer is a late Boomer (I think he was born in 1958) and is quite knowledgeable about 1980s music. A lot of late Boomers typically got their first steady, salaried jobs in the 1980s, and, for the first time, had enough spending money to start buying all the records they really wanted to pursue their interest in current music.

    As for innovation and being musically ground-breaking, maybe every generation tends to view the new popular music of their adolescence and early twenties as being innovative on technical grounds. My older siblings and their cohort, boomers from the late 1940s, used to consider the Beatles to be the sharp breaking point with everything that went before them, because of the unexpected chord changes they used. That was a widespread view at the time. Boomers slightly younger than them considered the rock music of the later Sixties to be that separating point, because of the experimental concept albums that were the new innovation then.

    I remember even my Dad (born 1917) saying that the real dividing point in popular music was in the 1940s, because of the revolutionary influence of Cuban and Latin dance rhythms.

    One thing that can be said with objectivity is that pop and rock music has been getting much dumber since the late 90’s. Really, they can scientifically measure song structure and vocal parts to determine the level of sophistication. Pop music has actually been getting dumber since the early 70’s, although hard rock in terms of Prog rock/heavy metal/Alternative rock did a lot of experimenting with strange time signatures and such like that in the 1970’s-early 90’s (though mainstream hard rock, with the exception of, uh, Tool, has largely abandoned progressive experimentation since the late 90’s). Rock music has gone way down the tubes since 1995, long gone are the days when Dream Theater got decent MTV airplay in the early 90’s.

    As for innovation and being musically ground-breaking, maybe every generation tends to view the new popular music of their adolescence and early twenties as being innovative on technical grounds. My older siblings and their cohort, boomers from the late 1940s, used to consider the Beatles to be the sharp breaking point with everything that went before them, because of the unexpected chord changes they used. That was a widespread view at the time. Boomers slightly younger than them considered the rock music of the later Sixties to be that separating point, because of the experimental concept albums that were the new innovation then.

    The Beatles, The Stones, The Doors etc. were indeed innovators, however it has to be noted that in terms of musical ambition and technical chops, the prog rock and metal bands of the 70’s and 80’s absolutely annihilate any band that started in the early 60’s. To the point that some Gen X-ers and Millennials who grew up on Rush and Metallica often find older rock music to be kinda boring. That being said, much of the mainstream rock music of post-1995 is so pathetically simple and rote that the only “advantage” it has over 60’s rock music is that it was recorded and mixed with better technology.

  121. @Feryl
    Tarantino does seem rather nerdy* and perverted, since he fetishizes that which he has no real-life familiarity with: violence and "tough" guys (often criminals and outlaws). His "fascination" with black virility is even more disconcerting. He also has always defensively lashed out at critics for his use of violence and profanity.

    Tarantino obviously wishes that his own life could be like the fantasy world he depicts on screen.

    *In conversations, Tarantino has a rapid fire yammer that is rather grating to listen to. He seems to have a pretty manic personality, which I find to be a bit surprising because most movie directors tend to seem rather reserved in interviews (Spielberg, Lucas, John Carpenter, John Milius, Cronenberg etc. never seem very talkative or energetic to me; Spielberg doesn't even do director commentaries).

    Tarantino obviously wishes that his own life could be like the fantasy world he depicts on screen

    . Every novelist writes about the world he would like to be in.

    As for techniques such as night shooting: Touch of Evil? I think acting technique alters. Tom Noonan says never put emphasis on a line.

    • Replies: @Feryl

    . Every novelist writes about the world he would like to be in.
     
    Sure, but what wholesome person wants to inhabit the world that Tarantino depicts? Romanticizing criminals and outlaws has always gotten on my nerves, because there's nothing worthwhile in sociopathy and parasitism. It only ends in spiritual desolation and karmic obliteration. Tarantino isn't even trying to be naturalistic or make any real point with the violence, it's all just juvenile fantasy from a dork who was always picked last for dodgeball, and still hasn't reached mature levels of empathy. Time to grow up.
  122. @Feryl
    Tarantino does seem rather nerdy* and perverted, since he fetishizes that which he has no real-life familiarity with: violence and "tough" guys (often criminals and outlaws). His "fascination" with black virility is even more disconcerting. He also has always defensively lashed out at critics for his use of violence and profanity.

    Tarantino obviously wishes that his own life could be like the fantasy world he depicts on screen.

    *In conversations, Tarantino has a rapid fire yammer that is rather grating to listen to. He seems to have a pretty manic personality, which I find to be a bit surprising because most movie directors tend to seem rather reserved in interviews (Spielberg, Lucas, John Carpenter, John Milius, Cronenberg etc. never seem very talkative or energetic to me; Spielberg doesn't even do director commentaries).

    I always enjoyed Norm Macdonald’s parody of Tarantino.

    • Replies: @Feryl
    Norm is the real wit, and the real rebel; Tarantino is a poser with nothing to say.
  123. Quentin should have just said, “Did you not see the two long movies I made with a female lead? (pause for her to stumble in embarrassed ignorance) You stupid bitch!” (sits back and enjoys the vicious trolling)

    He has been hit or miss his last few movies, but he does deserve credit for still shooting on Kodak film (I think?), refusing CGI, and always solid casting. Who knew he would be our “adult” director in the age of video games passing as movies? This is one of the few theatrical movies I am looking forward to. Scorsese’s The Irishman being the other.

  124. @Sean

    Tarantino obviously wishes that his own life could be like the fantasy world he depicts on screen
     
    . Every novelist writes about the world he would like to be in.

    As for techniques such as night shooting: Touch of Evil? I think acting technique alters. Tom Noonan says never put emphasis on a line.

    . Every novelist writes about the world he would like to be in.

    Sure, but what wholesome person wants to inhabit the world that Tarantino depicts? Romanticizing criminals and outlaws has always gotten on my nerves, because there’s nothing worthwhile in sociopathy and parasitism. It only ends in spiritual desolation and karmic obliteration. Tarantino isn’t even trying to be naturalistic or make any real point with the violence, it’s all just juvenile fantasy from a dork who was always picked last for dodgeball, and still hasn’t reached mature levels of empathy. Time to grow up.

    • Replies: @Desiderius

    still hasn’t reached mature levels of empathy. Time to grow up.

     

    This common thread runs throughout his class. It is their comic flaw.
  125. @Anon87
    I always enjoyed Norm Macdonald's parody of Tarantino.

    Norm is the real wit, and the real rebel; Tarantino is a poser with nothing to say.

    • Replies: @Anon87
    He says the N-bomb a lot. Quentin, not Norm.
  126. @SunBakedSuburb
    "Tarantino, the master of blood porn."

    One of the reasons why QT turns me off. He has a sadist's love for violence and pain. I could be wrong but I doubt he has ever experienced violence in real life.

    This comment reminds me of how so many baby Boomer draft dodgers* started writing and directing super violent movies in the 80’s, and it was plain as day that they often had little understanding of how gun fights work (people not carefully handling and aiming their weapons, extremely reckless indifference to cover, etc.). In the 2000’s and 2010’s, Gen X movie makers generally take more care to depict realistic action scenes.

    *Vietnam movies like Platoon and Hamburger Hill were actually written by vets, and it shows.

  127. @Feryl

    . Every novelist writes about the world he would like to be in.
     
    Sure, but what wholesome person wants to inhabit the world that Tarantino depicts? Romanticizing criminals and outlaws has always gotten on my nerves, because there's nothing worthwhile in sociopathy and parasitism. It only ends in spiritual desolation and karmic obliteration. Tarantino isn't even trying to be naturalistic or make any real point with the violence, it's all just juvenile fantasy from a dork who was always picked last for dodgeball, and still hasn't reached mature levels of empathy. Time to grow up.

    still hasn’t reached mature levels of empathy. Time to grow up.

    This common thread runs throughout his class. It is their comic flaw.

  128. @Endgame Napoleon
    Thanks to a bunch of evil murderers, the real Sharon Tate didn’t get her fair chance to speak in life, so it’s kind of apt.

    As opposed to morally irreproachable murderers? It was Tex Watson who inflicted all the fatal injuries. The girls were so saturated in LSD that all Manson had to do was jailhouse card tricks and they thought it was real magic.. Tate had chosen a pretty strange set to run with considering she was pregnant, getting high on LSD and living with someone other than the bad man she’d chose to marry. who just happened to be a major Hollywood director Polanski who was half way through “Apartment Trilogy” having done Repulsion and Rosemary’s Baby both of which are about tenants coming to a very sticky end in rented accommodation with ominous landlords.

    The one who precipitated the whole Manson thing was the landlord Tates group were renting from, who told Manson in no uncertain terms to get off the property when he went to try and get back in contact with Doris Day’s music producer son, who had become chary of Manson and moved. The Manson killings were all about his failing to get a record contract and taking it out on people who were tangential.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Manson should have been executed or released so that frontier justice could have been carried out, same with Watson.
  129. @WhiteWinger
    "Tarantino likes old Hollywood tough guys". Judging by his films in the last 10 years, He does NOT like Old Hollywood WHITE Tough Guys.

    Too recent to be a homage, Tarantino’s latest is a total rip off of

    “Shane Black is what Quentin Tarantino wants to be when he grows up.”

  130. @Feryl
    Norm is the real wit, and the real rebel; Tarantino is a poser with nothing to say.

    He says the N-bomb a lot. Quentin, not Norm.

  131. @Thomm

    In other words, Tarantino wasn’t interested in writing a lot of lines for a woman.
     
    So? He created perhaps the most high-profile starring role ever for a middle-aged black woman.

    Pam Grier as Jackie Brown.

    He had a woman getting choked scene in that one, and another in Kill Bill, and a really brutal one in Inglorious Batsterds. The repeated punching and eventual vile hanging of a woman in Hateful Eight should not have surprised.

  132. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean
    As opposed to morally irreproachable murderers? It was Tex Watson who inflicted all the fatal injuries. The girls were so saturated in LSD that all Manson had to do was jailhouse card tricks and they thought it was real magic.. Tate had chosen a pretty strange set to run with considering she was pregnant, getting high on LSD and living with someone other than the bad man she'd chose to marry. who just happened to be a major Hollywood director Polanski who was half way through "Apartment Trilogy" having done Repulsion and Rosemary's Baby both of which are about tenants coming to a very sticky end in rented accommodation with ominous landlords.

    The one who precipitated the whole Manson thing was the landlord Tates group were renting from, who told Manson in no uncertain terms to get off the property when he went to try and get back in contact with Doris Day's music producer son, who had become chary of Manson and moved. The Manson killings were all about his failing to get a record contract and taking it out on people who were tangential.

    Manson should have been executed or released so that frontier justice could have been carried out, same with Watson.

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