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Kim in "Time:" Vikings Were Multiracial
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From Time:

White Supremacists Have Weaponized an Imaginary Viking Past. It’s Time to Reclaim the Real History

BY DOROTHY KIM 12:16 PM EDT

After New Zealand passed new gun laws this week… Along with much else from the European medieval world, the Viking past is part of the far right’s standard visual and textual imaginary. That vision of a Viking world depends on contemporary digital and filmic popular culture — such as the TV show Vikings and Viking-adjacent video games — as well as on academic and historical sources.

But far-right Viking medievalism is not about historical accuracy. Rather, it’s used to create narratives. So, to resist the medieval narratives that activate violent hate, we must create counternarratives — and to do that, we must understand the real Viking past and how it has been weaponized.

… Crucially, they were not homogeneous seafarers as is often imagined; they were multicultural and multiracial. …

Which is why the people in modern Iceland look mixed race like the people in modern Mauritius or Trinidad or Hawaii.

Wait … they don’t? They are all white?

But didn’t the Vikings kidnap Celtic women from Ireland?

What, Celts are white too? Really? Huh …

Noel Ignatiev has got a lot of ‘splainin’ to do.

 
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  1. Vikings colonized parts of North Africa and Western Asia. They also regularly raided parts of N and W Africa.

    They also got into Greenland and Vinland, which were not white.

    However, they really weren’t that multi racial a group.

    Multi Culti sure, but not exactly what is meant by multi cultural these days. They got into parts of Russia, and the Viking culture in Russia was very different from the Viking culture in Iceland or Norway.

    • Replies: @guest
    One wonders why Sea Pirates, I mean Vikings are engulfed in the multiculti warmth of human kindness when they colonize this or that, but later European colonists commit the most heinous and inhuman acts this side of the Nazis. All the while maintaining pure whiteness.

    If the hated enemies of academic history stopped displaying runes and crossed hammers and instead cosplayed as Francis Drake and King Leopold, would we suddenly discover Europe during the Age of Exploration wasn't the White Devil at all? That it was the fault of browns, reds, yellows, and whatever?

    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    The Vikings didn’t colonize Middle East/North Africa; it was already firmly entrenched in Islam’s camp by early 8th century. They did conquer Caucasian Northern France and part of Italy, before it was overrun by Islam. When they get to writing about t

    Seems as though only an Asian history professor can make asinine claims a la “the Vikings weren’t really white as official history has taught for over ten centuries”. It appears to be nothing more than upscale Black Athena. Turn it around: would TIME publish an article from a white professor saying exact same things, except that “everyone knows that the Koreans were half white”?

    Would they?

    , @Wilkey
    "Multi Culti sure, but not exactly what is meant by multi cultural these days"

    The Vikings were very much into invading your country and raping your women. That is *exactly* what is meant by modern "multiculturalism."
  2. Dorothy Kim:

    Dumpy Asian broads teaching revisionist history is who we are.

    • Agree: anon1
    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    Sometimes I wonder if a subset of Asians will be the ones to preserve Weatern culture. Already we are seeing plenty of Asian musicians, ranging from pop to classical. The J-pop and K-pop girls are not dumpy. Nor are some of the better known female classical musicians, such as Vanessa Mae and Yuja Wang.

    The first big name in Asian classical musicians was Yo-Yo Ma, who was born in Paris and raised in the US, though. Older gentleman now.

    Baseball is slowly being taken over by Asians as well. The first big name Asian in the Majors was Mets pitcher Ron Darling, an American born half-blooded Asian. Now there are a number of Asians in the majors.
    , @John Cunningham
    Mierda Sagrada, talk about a landwhale....if she had to haul ass it would take 4 or 5 trips.
  3. “not about historical accuracy. Rather, it’s used to create narratives.”

    Whoever heard of stories in history, geez. The Korean way of history is just a bunch of algebra.

    ( “What is history but a fable agreed upon?”

    – some white guy who was probably African anyway)

    • LOL: BB753
  4. Obligatory:

    • Agree: Almost Missouri, Hail
  5. @Paleo Liberal
    Vikings colonized parts of North Africa and Western Asia. They also regularly raided parts of N and W Africa.

    They also got into Greenland and Vinland, which were not white.

    However, they really weren’t that multi racial a group.

    Multi Culti sure, but not exactly what is meant by multi cultural these days. They got into parts of Russia, and the Viking culture in Russia was very different from the Viking culture in Iceland or Norway.

    One wonders why Sea Pirates, I mean Vikings are engulfed in the multiculti warmth of human kindness when they colonize this or that, but later European colonists commit the most heinous and inhuman acts this side of the Nazis. All the while maintaining pure whiteness.

    If the hated enemies of academic history stopped displaying runes and crossed hammers and instead cosplayed as Francis Drake and King Leopold, would we suddenly discover Europe during the Age of Exploration wasn’t the White Devil at all? That it was the fault of browns, reds, yellows, and whatever?

    • Replies: @Anon
    One of these days, people are going to look back and wonder why so many white people were obsessed with not being racist to the point where they saw nothing wrong with destroying their own middle-class living, their own country, and Western Civilization.
    , @Mr McKenna
    That there, sir, is good thinking.
  6. Of course there were black Vikings; here’s the proof:

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=s7kf-nV_E5Y

    Deacon Jones was a great defensive end, and I believe coined the word “sacks” for his favorite on-field activity. And he was a splendid actor, as you can see.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Pretty much every Los Angeles Rams NFL player in the 1960s-1970s got a shot at movie or TV stardom, and several made it: Merlin Olsen and Fred Dreyer, with Bernie Casey becoming a character actor doing lots of teachers as in Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure and police superintendents.
    , @JeremiahJohnbalaya
    Deacon Jones goes upside men and womens heads.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm2l0pxYw-4
    , @Olorin
    A howler that I haven't thought about in 30+ years, thanks.

    My favorite part in that one was the hilltop shot where you could see the oil tanker on the horizon.

    Or the wristwatch on one of the battling vikings. Or the palmettos visible in some of the beach scenes (filmed in Florida). And don't get me started on the archery anachronisms (blunt modern metal screw-in field points on arrows, crossbows, etc.).

    While we're on the topic of making stuff up about the North Sea/North Atlantic, I've been waiting all my life for someone to make a movie of Farley Mowat's The Farfarers. I'd show up to the set with my hand tools to be part of the hullmaking team. No, not lapstrake hulls--skin coracles. Kinda fun to build the "longhull" house foundations and navigational pillars (stone) too.... Admittedly I'd like the seafaring parts better than the walrus-hunting parts.......

    Another take on the topic:
    http://www.paabo.ca/uirala/uini-seagoingskinboats.html

    What Paabo misses is the obvious correlation between a lapstrake hull and a seabird's keel, ribs, and wings (sail). Seems to me that humans living next to the sea would have observed way more floating birds than floating anything else.

    In any event, dimwits who write for MSM today have no clue about anything prior to their undergraduate years. They write for each other.

  7. Anonymous[242] • Disclaimer says:

    So far, however, the most widespread, concerted and effective way to fight back against this historical white supremacist Viking genealogy has come not from academics or journalists.

    Rather, it has come from Taika Waititi, the indigenous Maori director and writer. His movie Thor: Ragnarok — in which Thor’s hammer, a medieval item regularly brandished by extremists, is destroyed — was a multiracial and postcolonial counternarrative to the white Viking narrative circulating through the alt-right digital ecosystem.

    His father is Māori of Te Whānau-ā-Apanui and his mother is of Russian Jewish heritage.[7][8] Waititi has used his mother’s surname, “Cohen”, for some of his work in film and writing.[9]

    • LOL: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    And everybody knows that Hollywood’s telling of historical films is 100% accurate. If you can’t trust Tinseltown to get the basic facts right, then who can you trust?
    , @guest
    Yet another example of Maori-Jews overshadowing Irish Protestant trailblazers. The first Marvel Thor movie, directed by Belfastian Kenneth Branagh, cast midnight-dark Idris Elba as white god Heimdall.
    , @Random Smartaleck

    His movie Thor: Ragnarok — in which Thor’s hammer, a medieval item regularly brandished by extremists, is destroyed — was a multiracial and postcolonial counternarrative to the white Viking narrative circulating through the alt-right digital ecosystem.
     
    I guess the whole "Hollywood adaptation of a superhero comic book only very, very loosely inspired by actual Scandinavian culture" kind of escaped Ms. Kim.
    , @J.Ross
    "We desecrated their holy things -- in effigy -- without their knowledge. That'll show them, as well as proving how advanced we are!"
    , @Pericles

    indigenous Maori ... his mother is of Russian Jewish heritage. ... has used his mother’s surname, “Cohen”, for some of his work in film and writing.

     

    As Maori as you, goiyyyyyyyyyyyy!
    , @Desiderius
    Not good for the Jews.

    Y’all need to get this shit smelling less Weimarish pronto.
  8. The different White ethnicity were considered different races back then.

    See? Race is social.

    Checkmate.

    You’re not as clever as you think—-this clearly hinges on what “race” is.

    Take your snark, and put it you know where.

  9. As David Reich emphasizes in his book Who We Are and How We Got Here: Ancient DNA and the New Science of the Human Past, if we take the perspective of the “deep past,” then all human groups are mixtures of varioous past human populations.

    Furthermore, even within relatively isolated groups, natural selection always continues: i.e., whatever the average IQ difference between Ashkenazi Jews and, let’s say, ǃKung San bushmen today may be, that difference might have been very different a couple thousand years ago. And, it may be different a couple thousand years in the future.

    Races are not immutable.

    There is no “essence” of “whiteness” or “Jewishness” or “Chineseness.”

    But, of course, that does not change the fact that if you take a snapshot at one point in time, there may be clear statistical differences between two human populations.

    All of this is scientifically elementary and quite obvious, but, I fear, too often ignored by polemicists on both sides.

    • Agree: ic1000
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    A judge in Chicago upheld the right of a Jew to exclude his children from his will if they married goyim; a judge in Canada permitted the raiding and ending of a scholarship fund that had been set up (long ago) specifically for white men. That's the entire issue. "Scientific" race is Lucy's football.
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    “Furthermore, even within relatively isolated groups, natural selection always continues”

    But natural selection would only occur within a specific isolated group. If there were no people of color/East Asian/Australasian/etc in Europe say, 50,000 years ago, then the DNA remains constant, and Europe would only contain Caucasian DNA during these 50 millennia.
    Duh.



    “whatever the average IQ difference between Ashkenazi Jews and, let’s say, ǃKung San bushmen today may be, that difference might have been very different a couple thousand years ago. “

    Uh yes, it might’ve been even worse. But this is subjective speculation a la “could be, should be, who knows” exactly. And science deals with what is, what is known at present, and facts.

    “And, it may be different a couple thousand years in the future.”

    Subjectivism for the most part, makes for poor science. Science deals in facts and not whimsical thinking dreaming.

    Suppose The Ming dynasty was largely comprised of sub Saharan African bushman but it was covered up for over a thousand years? Suppose Caucasians we’re living in Antarctica 5,000 years ago?

    Whimsical magical thinking has little place in science.
    , @Buzz Mohawk
    I kinda like the White people who made the modern world.

    They are basically the same as they were when they started the project half a millennium ago. It would be a shame if they were bastardized, sidelined and reduced to impotency. It would be better if they had some say in who they are and what they want their world to be.

    The characteristics that enabled White people to circle the globe and rise above it came about via that process Reich describes. Those are the traits of the first people to explore the entire planet -- and who then went on to explore every other planet that orbits the Sun.

    Now those people are being shamed for what they are. They are being singled out for any bad thing they have ever done -- even though every other race has done the same bad things. At the same time, they are being denied credit for their essential role in creating most of what is good in the world now, for doing good things that no one else had ever done.

    Let's not do anything to hasten their rate of change -- or to deny the fact that they have been A People for a long time now.

    , @guest
    Not so much ignored as passed over for being irrelevant and stupid.
    , @gregor
    Reich was strawmanning. Nobody says races are immutable or that there was no admixture in the past. (The idea of eugenics actually presupposes the mutability of racial characteristics). It felt like he threw that in so he could act like the DNA results are cutting both ways, overturning myths on both sides. Yeah, right. It’s also a stupid idea that past admixture means we have to be enthusiastic about it today. Especially when the “admixture” in ancient times more often than not meant getting conquered and cucked.
    , @David Davenport
    All of this is scientifically elementary and quite obvious, but, I fear, too often ignored by polemicists on both sides.

    What a pompous asshole you are, Physicist Dave.

    I wonder what sort of physicist you actually are.
  10. Speaking of New Zealand and the flight from white, the blind guys in Kiwi metal band Alien Weaponry claim Maori ancestry.

  11. @Anon7
    Of course there were black Vikings; here’s the proof:

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=s7kf-nV_E5Y

    Deacon Jones was a great defensive end, and I believe coined the word “sacks” for his favorite on-field activity. And he was a splendid actor, as you can see.

    Pretty much every Los Angeles Rams NFL player in the 1960s-1970s got a shot at movie or TV stardom, and several made it: Merlin Olsen and Fred Dreyer, with Bernie Casey becoming a character actor doing lots of teachers as in Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure and police superintendents.

    • Replies: @flyingtiger
    Wasn't quarterback Roman Gabriel in some cowboy picture with John Wayne and Rock Hudson?
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Wasn’t Jack Youngblood a character actor as well? Played in Super Bowl XIV on a broken leg.
    , @Desiderius
    Rosey Grier
    , @HDR

    Pretty much every Los Angeles Rams NFL player in the 1960s-1970s got a shot at movie or TV stardom
     
    Jack Snow appeared on "Bewitched" for a quick scene playing himself. I don’t think he did too much else. He wasn’t interested in being an actor.
    , @FPD72
    And of course, Chuck Connors briefly played first base for the Los Angeles Dodgers.

    I’ve read that the major reason why LeBron James signed with the Lakers was to get close to Hollywood.
    , @Ron Mexico
    Bernie Casey was UN Jefferson in Nerds. Nuff said.
    , @Skyler_the_Weird
    I remember Roman Gabriel and Merlin and a couple of others in the Undefeated with John Wayne.
  12. Its always a Korean

  13. @MikeatMikedotMike
    Dorothy Kim:

    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-OmTsoiJdDbc/WbqVKbpucxI/AAAAAAAADLM/rEwMB-aixi8LJyIXyYVaXjRvWIlIyr5-ACLcBGAs/s320/Dorothy%2BKim.jpg

    Dumpy Asian broads teaching revisionist history is who we are.

    Sometimes I wonder if a subset of Asians will be the ones to preserve Weatern culture. Already we are seeing plenty of Asian musicians, ranging from pop to classical. The J-pop and K-pop girls are not dumpy. Nor are some of the better known female classical musicians, such as Vanessa Mae and Yuja Wang.

    The first big name in Asian classical musicians was Yo-Yo Ma, who was born in Paris and raised in the US, though. Older gentleman now.

    Baseball is slowly being taken over by Asians as well. The first big name Asian in the Majors was Mets pitcher Ron Darling, an American born half-blooded Asian. Now there are a number of Asians in the majors.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    Pop music isn't Western Culture. Classical music is, but its survival in Asia will depend on economic factors as much as in t he US and Europe.
    Japan has a big boner for icons of the West popular in the mid-20th century like Paris, van Gogh, Audrey Hepburn, baseball. My feeling is that this is going to droop over the next decade.
    , @Chris Mallory

    Baseball is slowly being taken over by Asians as well.

     

    If by "Asians" you mean "Hispanics", then you might be close.

    According to this site:
    https://sabr.org/bioproj/topic/baseball-demographics-1947-2012

    Asians have hovered around 2% for 15 years. Blacks hit a high in 1975 at 18.5%, they are now down to 6.7% Whites have bounced around the low 60's for 20 years. Hispanics in baseball have grown fairly consistently from 11% in the mid 80's to 27% now.
    , @John Derbyshire
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbUnNbq2-dM
    , @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Sometimes I wonder if a subset of Asians will be the ones to preserve Western culture.
     
    Your thought is a blackpill because it suggests that no more whites will exist to create new and ongoing Western culture. Also: “Western culture” without Western faces? Bleah. (Derb may disagree ;) ).
  14. @Steve Sailer
    Pretty much every Los Angeles Rams NFL player in the 1960s-1970s got a shot at movie or TV stardom, and several made it: Merlin Olsen and Fred Dreyer, with Bernie Casey becoming a character actor doing lots of teachers as in Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure and police superintendents.

    Wasn’t quarterback Roman Gabriel in some cowboy picture with John Wayne and Rock Hudson?

    • Replies: @TWS
    The undefeated
  15. Don’t Northern Laplander and Scandinavians have somewhat Asiatic Epicanthal folds? Much less distance to Asia at Northern latitudes.

    What about the Icelandic singer Bjork? She looks Asian.

    • Replies: @jim jones
    I always thought that Bjork was a Downs baby
  16. @Paleo Liberal
    Vikings colonized parts of North Africa and Western Asia. They also regularly raided parts of N and W Africa.

    They also got into Greenland and Vinland, which were not white.

    However, they really weren’t that multi racial a group.

    Multi Culti sure, but not exactly what is meant by multi cultural these days. They got into parts of Russia, and the Viking culture in Russia was very different from the Viking culture in Iceland or Norway.

    The Vikings didn’t colonize Middle East/North Africa; it was already firmly entrenched in Islam’s camp by early 8th century. They did conquer Caucasian Northern France and part of Italy, before it was overrun by Islam. When they get to writing about t

    Seems as though only an Asian history professor can make asinine claims a la “the Vikings weren’t really white as official history has taught for over ten centuries”. It appears to be nothing more than upscale Black Athena. Turn it around: would TIME publish an article from a white professor saying exact same things, except that “everyone knows that the Koreans were half white”?

    Would they?

  17. I’ll listen to Ms. Kim on ASIAN medieval history, but not European, if she believes the BS in this article.

  18. That vision of a Viking world depends on contemporary digital and filmic popular culture — such as the TV show Vikings and Viking-adjacent video games —

    I nominate “Viking-adjacent video games” as 2019’s best Evil Fount of White Supremacy.

    as well as on academic and historical sources.

    Yeah. Can’t let “academic and historical sources” spoil the multicultural party.

  19. @Anonymous

    So far, however, the most widespread, concerted and effective way to fight back against this historical white supremacist Viking genealogy has come not from academics or journalists.

    Rather, it has come from Taika Waititi, the indigenous Maori director and writer. His movie Thor: Ragnarok — in which Thor’s hammer, a medieval item regularly brandished by extremists, is destroyed — was a multiracial and postcolonial counternarrative to the white Viking narrative circulating through the alt-right digital ecosystem.
     

    His father is Māori of Te Whānau-ā-Apanui and his mother is of Russian Jewish heritage.[7][8] Waititi has used his mother's surname, "Cohen", for some of his work in film and writing.[9]
     

    And everybody knows that Hollywood’s telling of historical films is 100% accurate. If you can’t trust Tinseltown to get the basic facts right, then who can you trust?

    • Replies: @Joseph Doaks
    History Channel?
  20. @PhysicistDave
    As David Reich emphasizes in his book Who We Are and How We Got Here: Ancient DNA and the New Science of the Human Past, if we take the perspective of the "deep past," then all human groups are mixtures of varioous past human populations.

    Furthermore, even within relatively isolated groups, natural selection always continues: i.e., whatever the average IQ difference between Ashkenazi Jews and, let's say, ǃKung San bushmen today may be, that difference might have been very different a couple thousand years ago. And, it may be different a couple thousand years in the future.

    Races are not immutable.

    There is no "essence" of "whiteness" or "Jewishness" or "Chineseness."

    But, of course, that does not change the fact that if you take a snapshot at one point in time, there may be clear statistical differences between two human populations.

    All of this is scientifically elementary and quite obvious, but, I fear, too often ignored by polemicists on both sides.

    A judge in Chicago upheld the right of a Jew to exclude his children from his will if they married goyim; a judge in Canada permitted the raiding and ending of a scholarship fund that had been set up (long ago) specifically for white men. That’s the entire issue. “Scientific” race is Lucy’s football.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    A judge in Chicago upheld the right of a Jew to exclude his children from his will if they married goyim; a judge in Canada permitted the raiding and ending of a scholarship fund that had been set up (long ago) specifically for white men. That’s the entire issue. “Scientific” race is Lucy’s football.
     
    The judge in Chicago is correct. It's ok for a Jew to be anti-gentile, as is the reverse. His money, his rules.

    The judge in Canada is a P.O.S. Sadly typical judicial supremacist behavior. They fancy themselves philosopher kings.
    , @ben tillman

    A judge in Chicago upheld the right of a Jew to exclude his children from his will if they married goyim; a judge in Canada permitted the raiding and ending of a scholarship fund that had been set up (long ago) specifically for white men.
     
    Steve went to a school like that.
    , @Jack D
    One ruling is correct and the other is wrong. The fundamental purpose of a "will" is to carry out the will (wishes) of the donor. If I want to give my money to some of my kids but not others, that's my business - it's my money, I can give it to whoever I want. If I want to give it to set up a fund for scholarships to blacks or Armenians or children of bus drivers or whatever, that's my business too. In the case of the latter, you have to be careful to make sure that it's administered by a private foundation and not run by the government - once you give your money to the government, they can't discriminate with it.
  21. @Steve Sailer
    Pretty much every Los Angeles Rams NFL player in the 1960s-1970s got a shot at movie or TV stardom, and several made it: Merlin Olsen and Fred Dreyer, with Bernie Casey becoming a character actor doing lots of teachers as in Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure and police superintendents.

    Wasn’t Jack Youngblood a character actor as well? Played in Super Bowl XIV on a broken leg.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    Yes, he was.
  22. Dorothy Kim:

    Crucially, Vilhelm Grønbach’s multi-volume work Vor Folkeæt I Oldtiden (The Cultures of the Teutons) imagined an ancient Germanic genealogy that ran from Tacitus through the Middle Ages.

    German scholarly work during the eve of the Third Reich then added to this idea, with authors like Gustav Neckel and Bernhard Kummer blaming socialism, Jews and class revolutions for the “decline” of a Germanic race they saw descending from this Viking past.

    Wrong, Dotty. It’s well known that Germania is the spirit of a majestic bloody African Kween who likes to get it on.

    Play full screen / full res / full sound. You’re welcome.

    • Replies: @Random Smartaleck

    It’s well known that Germania is the spirit of a majestic bloody African Kween who likes to get it on.
     
    Why anyone not blind thinks this video is Neo-Nazi propaganda is beyond me. Doubly so for German speakers ("I can't give [Germany] my love" as the ultimate line? Seriously?)
  23. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:

    Trumps very birth mother, MaryAnne MacLeod, was born on Lewis.

    These distant north Atlantic islands were so remote and distracted its comical writing surely ?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse%E2%80%93Gaels

    The great recorded line is from James 6 Scotland, England 1 t.:

    “Alexander Mcloud dwelleth in ye isle of lews where no lawman doth go for fear of his life.”

    James 6: ” then how ye isle ?”

  24. To be fair, Tony Curtis and Kirk Douglas managed not only to migrate from the fjords of Scandinavia to Ancient Rome but master time travel into the bargain.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Vikings_(1958_film)

  25. There was other “scholar” called Mary Beard who recently claimed against all evidence that the Roman Empire was full of subsaharan Africans. Isn’t “cultural appropiation” when non-Europeans try to claim traditional European societies were full of non-europeans?

  26. @Paleo Liberal
    Sometimes I wonder if a subset of Asians will be the ones to preserve Weatern culture. Already we are seeing plenty of Asian musicians, ranging from pop to classical. The J-pop and K-pop girls are not dumpy. Nor are some of the better known female classical musicians, such as Vanessa Mae and Yuja Wang.

    The first big name in Asian classical musicians was Yo-Yo Ma, who was born in Paris and raised in the US, though. Older gentleman now.

    Baseball is slowly being taken over by Asians as well. The first big name Asian in the Majors was Mets pitcher Ron Darling, an American born half-blooded Asian. Now there are a number of Asians in the majors.

    Pop music isn’t Western Culture. Classical music is, but its survival in Asia will depend on economic factors as much as in t he US and Europe.
    Japan has a big boner for icons of the West popular in the mid-20th century like Paris, van Gogh, Audrey Hepburn, baseball. My feeling is that this is going to droop over the next decade.

  27. @Paleo Liberal
    Sometimes I wonder if a subset of Asians will be the ones to preserve Weatern culture. Already we are seeing plenty of Asian musicians, ranging from pop to classical. The J-pop and K-pop girls are not dumpy. Nor are some of the better known female classical musicians, such as Vanessa Mae and Yuja Wang.

    The first big name in Asian classical musicians was Yo-Yo Ma, who was born in Paris and raised in the US, though. Older gentleman now.

    Baseball is slowly being taken over by Asians as well. The first big name Asian in the Majors was Mets pitcher Ron Darling, an American born half-blooded Asian. Now there are a number of Asians in the majors.

    Baseball is slowly being taken over by Asians as well.

    If by “Asians” you mean “Hispanics”, then you might be close.

    According to this site:
    https://sabr.org/bioproj/topic/baseball-demographics-1947-2012

    Asians have hovered around 2% for 15 years. Blacks hit a high in 1975 at 18.5%, they are now down to 6.7% Whites have bounced around the low 60’s for 20 years. Hispanics in baseball have grown fairly consistently from 11% in the mid 80’s to 27% now.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    Many or most of the Hispanics are black. The 6.7% figure is way too low.
  28. @PhysicistDave
    As David Reich emphasizes in his book Who We Are and How We Got Here: Ancient DNA and the New Science of the Human Past, if we take the perspective of the "deep past," then all human groups are mixtures of varioous past human populations.

    Furthermore, even within relatively isolated groups, natural selection always continues: i.e., whatever the average IQ difference between Ashkenazi Jews and, let's say, ǃKung San bushmen today may be, that difference might have been very different a couple thousand years ago. And, it may be different a couple thousand years in the future.

    Races are not immutable.

    There is no "essence" of "whiteness" or "Jewishness" or "Chineseness."

    But, of course, that does not change the fact that if you take a snapshot at one point in time, there may be clear statistical differences between two human populations.

    All of this is scientifically elementary and quite obvious, but, I fear, too often ignored by polemicists on both sides.

    “Furthermore, even within relatively isolated groups, natural selection always continues”

    But natural selection would only occur within a specific isolated group. If there were no people of color/East Asian/Australasian/etc in Europe say, 50,000 years ago, then the DNA remains constant, and Europe would only contain Caucasian DNA during these 50 millennia.
    Duh.

    “whatever the average IQ difference between Ashkenazi Jews and, let’s say, ǃKung San bushmen today may be, that difference might have been very different a couple thousand years ago. “

    Uh yes, it might’ve been even worse. But this is subjective speculation a la “could be, should be, who knows” exactly. And science deals with what is, what is known at present, and facts.

    “And, it may be different a couple thousand years in the future.”

    Subjectivism for the most part, makes for poor science. Science deals in facts and not whimsical thinking dreaming.

    Suppose The Ming dynasty was largely comprised of sub Saharan African bushman but it was covered up for over a thousand years? Suppose Caucasians we’re living in Antarctica 5,000 years ago?

    Whimsical magical thinking has little place in science.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    Yojimbo/Zatoichi wrote to me:

    But natural selection would only occur within a specific isolated group. If there were no people of color/East Asian/Australasian/etc in Europe say, 50,000 years ago, then the DNA remains constant, and Europe would only contain Caucasian DNA during these 50 millennia.
    Duh.
     
    No, that's just wrong. If there are different alleles present within the population, there will be natural selection.

    And, mutations happen, which continue to produce different alleles on an ongoing basis.

    YZ also wrote:


    [Dave]“whatever the average IQ difference between Ashkenazi Jews and, let’s say, ǃKung San bushmen today may be, that difference might have been very different a couple thousand years ago. “

    [YZ]Uh yes, it might’ve been even worse. But this is subjective speculation a la “could be, should be, who knows” exactly. And science deals with what is, what is known at present, and facts.
     

    Wrong again. Mathematically, it is almost impossible that natural selection would not have made changes during those two millennia.

    Stuff happens.

    YZ also wrote:


    Suppose The Ming dynasty was largely comprised of sub Saharan African bushman but it was covered up for over a thousand years? Suppose Caucasians we’re living in Antarctica 5,000 years ago?
     
    Nothing to do with what I was talking about.

    Genetically, the Chinese of today are just not the Chinese of the Ming dynasty: just not possible. Allele frequencies change. Mutations happen.

    Ming dynasty Chinese are of course closer genetically to contemporary Chinese than to contemporary !Kung San. But, go back far enough and that is not true. Obviously, Cinese of today are closer to !Kung San of today than they are to Peking Man.

    Genes within a population change over time. There is no "essence" to races.

    What is the relevant time scale? It depends -- read Reich's book. I'd say offhand ten to twenty thousand years, based on his book. But it can vary widely.

    And, all modern races are the result of past hybridization events, repeated again and again. Again, read Reich. Timescale? Depends on what people do -- conquest, voluntary intermarriage, etc.

    Again, read Reich's book: the evidence on this is certain and conclusive -- close to being as conclusive as the heliocentric theory vs. Ptolemy.

    The detailed data we now possess on all this is really quite fascinating. Read Reich.

  29. I watched all five Seasons of Vikings and the only multicultural insertion was a very wayward, her ship blown off course, Chinese woman that Ragnor Lothbrook got involved with. Proof enough for me. Though French were involved, Vikings invading them, and we all know that wogs begin east of Calais.

    Contrast this with the idiotic Game of Thrones which was very multi-culti

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    "very wayward, her ship blown off course, Chinese woman"

    That's a long stretch of imagination. The Barbary Corsairs did get as far as Iceland looking for slaves, which was only fair as the Vikings were big slave stealers themselves. Note they were led by a Dutchman who'd "turned Turk".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Abductions



    "the medieval narratives that activate violent hate"

    They were all about violent hate. Njal's Saga kicks off when two wives argue over the seating positions at a feast - and it all goes downhill from there.

    "Gunnar's wife instigates a feud that leads to the death of many characters over several decades including the killing by fire of the eponymous "Burnt Njáll". The saga deals with this process of blood feuds in the Icelandic Commonwealth, showing how the requirements of honor could lead to minor slights spiralling into destructive and prolonged bloodshed."
     
    , @Wilkey
    "Contrast this with the idiotic Game of Thrones which was very multi-culti"

    GoT doesn't strike me as very multi-culti. Its a fantasy version of Europe and North Africa (and maybe a slice of Central Asia), set anytime from the Roman Era to the Dark Ages. It does have blacks and Mongols, but it's mostly white. All the various racial groups live in exactly the places you would expect them to live. The various kingdoms are mostly monoracial. Sure there are multiple cultures, but they all live separately, exactly as you would epect.

    Let's give some credit to the producers of quality fantasy like LOTR, GoT, etc. They have avoided the obnoxious pressure to make ancient societies look like Benetton ads.
  30. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:

    I guess that would explain Bjork.

    Carleton Coon wrote a tome called The Races of Europe dividing Europeans into various races. But even according to Coon’s racial typology, I don’t think the Vikings were really multiracial. Most if not all of them would have been a part of the Nordic (or whatever precise category Coon had) race.

    Some of the post-Roman raiding barbarian groups could plausibly be called “multiracial”. The Scythians in late antiquity, or the Hunnic confederation, which included various Germanics like the Goths, Slavic groups, Huns, etc., come to mind. But I don’t think the Vikings could be described as such.

    • Replies: @Eric Novak
    Björk's haplogroup was subject of discussion two decades ago, after genetic sampling of the Icelandic population. She's Nordic, with the same ancestry as Erik the Red.
    , @larry lurker
    https://youtu.be/75WFTHpOw8Y
  31. The Viking absolutely were black. Here is the documentary proof:

  32. The ancient Korean kingdoms were also multiracial. And not only that, the ancient Korean kingdoms spoke Spanish. And on top of that the ancient Korean kings were mostly Eastern Orthodox and took instruction from Constantinople. Why not?

  33. Sounds like she got her history from the Vikings TV series:

  34. syonredux [AKA "dr syon"] says:

    In it are multiple medieval references, several involving medieval Vikings, which these days function as a signal to white supremacists. Along with much else from the European medieval world,

    Godddam YT. First it’s the Graeco-Roman classics, now the Middle Ages….

    But far-right Viking medievalism is not about historical accuracy. Rather, it’s used to create narratives. So, to resist the medieval narratives that activate violent hate, we must create counternarratives — and to do that, we must understand the real Viking past and how it has been weaponized.

    MMMM, could I maybe get a movie deal out of this? One brave Asian woman’s struggle to counter White hegemony via the creation of POC-centric counter-narratives……

    They established settler colonies across the Mediterranean, Caspian, Black, Arctic and North Atlantic seas and waterways, maintaining a presence in regions ranging from present-day Russia and Europe to the Americas. Crucially, they were not homogeneous seafarers as is often imagined; they were multicultural and multiracial.

    Yeah, bigots. Some of your precious lilly-White Vikings had Irish and Slavic blood…..

    In the 19th century, Romantic German nationalism metastasized into the Völkish movement,

    OOOO, yeah, nice touch, working in that subtle “Whites-equal-cancer” imagery….

    which was interested in historical narratives that bolstered a white German nation state.

    As opposed to the actual German nation, which had lots of POC…..I mean, didn’t it?Maybe I should work in something about the Huns being kinda-sorta East Asian….

    The movement rewrote history, drawing on folklore such as that of Brothers Grimm, medieval epics and a dedication to racial white supremacy.

    Ya see, since the Germans were surrounded by non-Whites, they really hadda stress the White supremacy bit…

    This neo-pagan resurgence intersects with many facets of extremism today, from eco-fascism — another term the Christchurch terrorist invoked — to groups like the Odinists, who practice a form of white toxic masculinity based on the belief that the “barbaric” warriors of medieval Northern Europe functioned as a violent warrior comitatus.

    Look, I’m not saying that all forms of masculinity are toxic. POC masculinity is totally OK…

    So far, however, the most widespread, concerted and effective way to fight back against this historical white supremacist Viking genealogy has come not from academics or journalists.

    Rather, it has come from Taika Waititi, the indigenous Maori director and writer.

    Well, not completely “indigenous”:

    Waititi is from the Raukokore area of the East Coast region of the North Island of New Zealand and grew up there and in Wellington,[5] and attended Onslow College for secondary school.[6] His father is Māori of Te Whānau-ā-Apanui and his mother is of Russian Jewish heritage.[7][8] Waititi has used his mother’s surname, “Cohen”, for some of his work in film and writing.[9]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taika_Waititi

    His movie Thor: Ragnarok — in which Thor’s hammer, a medieval item regularly brandished by extremists, is destroyed —

    Suck it, YT! We just destroyed your phallic symbol! Guess who’s on top now!

    was a multiracial and postcolonial counternarrative to the white Viking narrative circulating through the alt-right digital ecosystem. After decades of building up the violent Viking vision, more such stories will be needed to disrupt this medieval machine.

    How do you like your Norse gods now, bigots:

  35. Preachy, preachy. A “Korean” Cotton Mather.

    Disclaimer: I want to be perfectly clear about this, too — folks of Korean peninsula ancestry should embrace their Chinese- and Japanese-contributed admixture (not to mention others). It’s who they are.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    South Korea has embraced the Judeo-Protestant culture of the West and will now reap its rewards.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/south-korea-court-strikes-down-six-decade-old-abortion-ban/2019/04/11/0200f028-5c43-11e9-842d-7d3ed7eb3957_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.74ed40f519bd

    South Korea court strikes down six-decade-old abortion ban
     
  36. Incidentally, if Vikings are no longer white who will play the role of “primitive people who are safe to make fun of?”

    Can you imagine this series of commercials featuring Australian aborigines, African tribesmen, or red Indians?

  37. I’m naive enough to have assumed that Kim would give us examples of Viking multiracialism in her article. Zilch.

  38. Anonymous[391] • Disclaimer says:

    Vikings did travel far and did conquer and rape non-white peoples, but I don’t think the non-whites were too happy about Vikings including them in multi-racial celebration. After all, the natives of America decided to kill Viking seafarers long before Columbus.

    And Mongols were multi-racial too in the sense that they conquered non-Mongols, raped them, and recruited some of them to plunder other tribes. Most peoples who were included in Mongolian multi-cultural celebration could have done without it.

    Empires tend to be multi-racial because one people conquer and rape another people. Not sure if it’s something to celebrate.

    Japanese conquered Korea and used Koreans to conquer Manchuria. I suppose that makes Japanese imperialism ‘multi-cultural’ because Koreans were made to participate in Japanese invasions.
    Kim should celebrate. And all those ‘comfort women’. What multi-ethnic joy.

  39. I found a copy of Time-Life books on Vikings and a couple of National Geographic magazines that features the spread of Viking culture, via conquest, across Europe all the way to Russia. No mention of multi-racial, but you would have to assume that they appropriated cultures as they colonized. But these books and magazines were pre-PC.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Best to look at the primary source contemporary writing of those who encountered them. These were people who wrote inc cyptic runes before the Great Sagas.

    west viking was seperate from east.

    http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/ibn_fdln.shtml
    , @Desiderius
    The only appropriation going on here is a talentless SJW appropriating the reputation of the great Luce family and the decades of quality publications it produced.
  40. @Anon7
    Of course there were black Vikings; here’s the proof:

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=s7kf-nV_E5Y

    Deacon Jones was a great defensive end, and I believe coined the word “sacks” for his favorite on-field activity. And he was a splendid actor, as you can see.

    Deacon Jones goes upside men and womens heads.

  41. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:

    Despite the Fed reserve sophistry.

    Trumps second cousin, Chancellor of Exchequer:

    https://www.nytimes.com/1970/07/21/archives/iain-macleod-dies-in-london-new-chancellor-of-exchequer-chief.html

  42. Well there was that Viking movie with Sydney Poitier from 1964.

  43. The far right = perfectly ordinary white person.

    • Agree: ben tillman
  44. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buffalo Joe
    I found a copy of Time-Life books on Vikings and a couple of National Geographic magazines that features the spread of Viking culture, via conquest, across Europe all the way to Russia. No mention of multi-racial, but you would have to assume that they appropriated cultures as they colonized. But these books and magazines were pre-PC.

    Best to look at the primary source contemporary writing of those who encountered them. These were people who wrote inc cyptic runes before the Great Sagas.

    west viking was seperate from east.

    http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/ibn_fdln.shtml

  45. More interesting than Dorothy Kim’s theory that OJ Simpson is a Viking is why she is pretending to do medieval studies in the first place. Perhaps because it’s a way for a dumpy little Asian girl to signal to Harvard and Vassar that she isn’t as dull as the rest of her tribe, who haven’t produced anything culturally significant since Gangnam Style. The elites seem to have fallen for for her ruse, but she is clearly about as intellectually significant as something that stuck to my windshield while I was recently driving through a cornfield.

  46. @Steve Sailer
    Pretty much every Los Angeles Rams NFL player in the 1960s-1970s got a shot at movie or TV stardom, and several made it: Merlin Olsen and Fred Dreyer, with Bernie Casey becoming a character actor doing lots of teachers as in Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure and police superintendents.

    Rosey Grier

    • Replies: @Clyde

    Rosey Grier
     
    He was on Kojak as Salathiel Harms. TV wuz good back then.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    Rosey Grier
     
    You spelled his name right. In Rosey's book, Needlepoint for Men, he holds up a gift pillow given him by a male friend with his name misspelled.



    https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3608/3562036029_57c2b45036_b.jpg


    https://nataliekaye.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/625rosey.jpg
    , @Joe Stalin
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWHNA_j7h5A
  47. We wuz Vikings and sheeeeit.

  48. @Buffalo Joe
    I found a copy of Time-Life books on Vikings and a couple of National Geographic magazines that features the spread of Viking culture, via conquest, across Europe all the way to Russia. No mention of multi-racial, but you would have to assume that they appropriated cultures as they colonized. But these books and magazines were pre-PC.

    The only appropriation going on here is a talentless SJW appropriating the reputation of the great Luce family and the decades of quality publications it produced.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    What's happened to Time magazine? It's obviously just a shadow of what it once was. But going full SJW can't be the best thing to do with whats left of the name.

    SJW click bait is the most overcrowded space of all. There is an endless supply of free articles about "why x is problematic."

    But at this point, I get the feeling none of these properties are run for profit, but just for cultural propaganda.
  49. Is the left eventually going to retcon the Third Reich too? Were the Nazis multiracial? Perhaps Goering was actually a black man, and Goebels a latinx.

  50. @PhysicistDave
    As David Reich emphasizes in his book Who We Are and How We Got Here: Ancient DNA and the New Science of the Human Past, if we take the perspective of the "deep past," then all human groups are mixtures of varioous past human populations.

    Furthermore, even within relatively isolated groups, natural selection always continues: i.e., whatever the average IQ difference between Ashkenazi Jews and, let's say, ǃKung San bushmen today may be, that difference might have been very different a couple thousand years ago. And, it may be different a couple thousand years in the future.

    Races are not immutable.

    There is no "essence" of "whiteness" or "Jewishness" or "Chineseness."

    But, of course, that does not change the fact that if you take a snapshot at one point in time, there may be clear statistical differences between two human populations.

    All of this is scientifically elementary and quite obvious, but, I fear, too often ignored by polemicists on both sides.

    I kinda like the White people who made the modern world.

    They are basically the same as they were when they started the project half a millennium ago. It would be a shame if they were bastardized, sidelined and reduced to impotency. It would be better if they had some say in who they are and what they want their world to be.

    The characteristics that enabled White people to circle the globe and rise above it came about via that process Reich describes. Those are the traits of the first people to explore the entire planet — and who then went on to explore every other planet that orbits the Sun.

    Now those people are being shamed for what they are. They are being singled out for any bad thing they have ever done — even though every other race has done the same bad things. At the same time, they are being denied credit for their essential role in creating most of what is good in the world now, for doing good things that no one else had ever done.

    Let’s not do anything to hasten their rate of change — or to deny the fact that they have been A People for a long time now.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    The characteristics that enabled White people to circle the globe and rise above it came about via that process Reich describes. Those are the traits of the first people to explore the entire planet — and who then went on to explore every other planet that orbits the Sun.

    Now those people are being shamed for what they are. They are being singled out for any bad thing they have ever done — even though every other race has done the same bad things. At the same time, they are being denied credit for their essential role in creating most of what is good in the world now, for doing good things that no one else had ever done.
     
    That was Bob Whitaker's position in a nutshell. He was well worth studying, although hrd to understand sometimes because of his occasional malapropisms.
    , @PhysicistDave
    Buzz Mohawk wrote to me:

    I kinda like the White people who made the modern world.

    They are basically the same as they were when they started the project half a millennium ago. It would be a shame if they were bastardized, sidelined and reduced to impotency. It would be better if they had some say in who they are and what they want their world to be.
     
    No, they are most certainly not "basically the same as they were when they started the project half a millennium ago."

    It has never been true that all social classes, all levels of intelligence, etc. always had the same number of children: allele frequencies among Europeans have certainly shifted for a plethora of reasons during the last half millennium.

    And, it is still continuing: unfortunately, in recent decades it seems that dumb people have been having more kids than smart people.

    This will alter the average traits of population groups of European origin.

    Obviously.
  51. For more on Dorothy Kim, click here and here.

  52. @Desiderius
    Rosey Grier

    Rosey Grier

    He was on Kojak as Salathiel Harms. TV wuz good back then.

  53. … Crucially, they were not homogeneous seafarers as is often imagined; they were multicultural and multiracial. …

    The Vikings are indeed multiracial. And many of their fans want them to adopt Led Zeppelin’s Immigrant Song as their official song, too. How very woke of the Vikings!

    • Replies: @Anon7
    “...multicultural and multiracial.”

    My full-blood Dane dad’s hometown was founded mostly by (non-pillaging) Danes in the 1800’s and I visited my grandparents there many times in the 1960’s and ‘70’s. Except for a couple of black families (because where else would my other grandparents in that town have gotten their black maid?), that town had zero diversity.
  54. Here’s an Icelandic Viking who looks multiracial:

    https://www.pinterest.com/pin/88594317644899104/

    People have been forever speculating that she is part Asian or Inuit. But apparently there is no evidence at all that she’s anything other that 100% Icelandic.

  55. But didn’t the Vikings kidnap Celtic women from Ireland?

    What, Celts are white too? Really? Huh …

    I used to meet flight crews from KLM and Icelandair, often at the same time. It was amazing how much more “Nordic” the KLM crews looked, but not really. They had something like 40 times the hiring pool.

    But even taking that into consideration, you could tell the Icelanders were less than stereotypically Scandinavian. I don’t remember any having freckles, though.

  56. @Desiderius
    Rosey Grier

    Rosey Grier

    You spelled his name right. In Rosey’s book, Needlepoint for Men, he holds up a gift pillow given him by a male friend with his name misspelled.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    I was always partial to cross-stitch.
  57. Anon[110] • Disclaimer says:

    The scary thing is that this technique is so effective for the left.

    They plant the seed of whatever they want to meme into reality in some obscure place. Sometimes it is a minor, weakly peer reviewed academic journal.
    Sometimes it is an obscure court case involving people nobody cares about.

    Then someone else makes a similar case and uses that article as a reference or the obscure court case as a legal precedent. The original authors in turn publish/litigate using the new authors as their own support.

    This continues until just a few dozen individuals have managed to establish what appears to be sound legal precedent or “settled science” on the flimsiest of pretexts.

    And they get away with it every single time.

    I remember reading in a “far right” forum about this new movie coming out that was going to turn America’s history of its space program upside down. “They” were going to turn an obscure black woman who did the long division that the real scientists didn’t have time for into the new Werner vonBraun. It had links to interviews where this woman stated she was proud to be part of the program but never really understood the science behind the equations she was crunching.

    I remember thinking how ridiculous the article was. That could never happen, and besides they had provided links to material refuting the entire premise. Didn’t think much of it until a year later my kids were forced to watch “Hidden Figures” in school.

    Now the whole world KNOWS that we only landed on the moon because of the brave black women inventing entirely new fields of mathematics despite the evil white men holding them back and forcing them to walk a half mile to the colored restroom. Search for American mathematicians and Google puts her front and center.

    So many advances the left has made has been using this tactic. It’s fun to snark at such a ridiculous premise, but every child in elementary school will KNOW by graduation that the Vikings were a diverse group of whites, blacks and muslims. I mean, why would they let a black man guard Ragnarok if the Vikings weren’t black themselves?

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    There's no H(istory) in STEM so conservatives (sic) couldn't be bothered to give a shit.
    , @guest
    That was a major Hollywood picture with millions in advertising behind it. So not your drips and drabs model.

    (Even if I hadn't been skeptical, I saw her rolled onstage at the Oscars and like I assume much of the world said to myself: "Hey, she looks pretty white." )

    https://www.dailydot.com/wp-content/uploads/299/c4/20c6e8b29663777b1fd4f02913441a5a.jpg

    But you're right, most of it happens imperceptibly. What is it they say, our culture is whatever was being taught at Harvard 20 years ago? How does it happen? Well, one way is the people who heard this nonsense are later put in charge of teaching other people. Then their pupils go out in the world and produce things that regular people eat up without knowing how silly and/or evil it is.

    , @Almost Missouri
    This is a good description of how the Left's cultural/legal dispossession scam works.

    Part of the reason it works is because the cultural gatekeepers who used to know better no longer do. They used to function as the control rods in the reactor, who would damp down crazy reactions before they went critical. Now they aid the craziness along.

    I know a nice, intelligent lady who directs the public outreach program of natural history (aka, natural science) for a major university. She regards Hidden Figures as more or less a documentary. And she tends to swallow whole whatever other of the latest revised conventional "wisdom" there is.

    Why would she do this? Well, one reason is that though she is an appointed ambassador of science to the public, she has no formal scientific training herself. She studied English literature or French or something in college. She has spent her whole career in academia, and she understands which views are acceptable to the Hierarchs of the Academy and which are not. In the past, her position would have been filled by an actual scientist, perhaps a Watson-type whose scientific-production career was declining, but whose managerial talent remained. Today, actual Watsons are hounded out of the Academy, so nice ladies of shallow understanding but acceptable views can occupy their positions.

    Ownership of the cultural narrative and the censorship power has consequences.

    Many, many consequences.
  58. @Reg Cæsar

    Rosey Grier
     
    You spelled his name right. In Rosey's book, Needlepoint for Men, he holds up a gift pillow given him by a male friend with his name misspelled.



    https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3608/3562036029_57c2b45036_b.jpg


    https://nataliekaye.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/625rosey.jpg

    I was always partial to cross-stitch.

  59. @PiltdownMan

    … Crucially, they were not homogeneous seafarers as is often imagined; they were multicultural and multiracial. …
     
    The Vikings are indeed multiracial. And many of their fans want them to adopt Led Zeppelin's Immigrant Song as their official song, too. How very woke of the Vikings!

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DiZ1ljCXcAYxR7S.jpg

    https://youtu.be/RlNhD0oS5pk

    “…multicultural and multiracial.”

    My full-blood Dane dad’s hometown was founded mostly by (non-pillaging) Danes in the 1800’s and I visited my grandparents there many times in the 1960’s and ‘70’s. Except for a couple of black families (because where else would my other grandparents in that town have gotten their black maid?), that town had zero diversity.

  60. If you poke around the Internet, you encounter many strange stories, like the one that suggests that the Celts were actually descendants of African blacks.

    Someday, someone will tell the full tale of how some stories, like how vaccinations cause autism, or how the Moon landing was faked, or even how an American President is actually a puppet of his former KGB handler, gain significant traction among the American public.

  61. We’ve all seen the Google searches for ‘American inventors’ and other similar terms which generate images of nonwhites. So far if you Google for ‘Vikings’ you appear to get what one would envision a Viking was, outside of the few football pictures included.

    I wonder how long it will take Google to change that, and start to generate the so-called multiracial Vikings as described by this woman.

  62. @Anonymous

    So far, however, the most widespread, concerted and effective way to fight back against this historical white supremacist Viking genealogy has come not from academics or journalists.

    Rather, it has come from Taika Waititi, the indigenous Maori director and writer. His movie Thor: Ragnarok — in which Thor’s hammer, a medieval item regularly brandished by extremists, is destroyed — was a multiracial and postcolonial counternarrative to the white Viking narrative circulating through the alt-right digital ecosystem.
     

    His father is Māori of Te Whānau-ā-Apanui and his mother is of Russian Jewish heritage.[7][8] Waititi has used his mother's surname, "Cohen", for some of his work in film and writing.[9]
     

    Yet another example of Maori-Jews overshadowing Irish Protestant trailblazers. The first Marvel Thor movie, directed by Belfastian Kenneth Branagh, cast midnight-dark Idris Elba as white god Heimdall.

  63. @PhysicistDave
    As David Reich emphasizes in his book Who We Are and How We Got Here: Ancient DNA and the New Science of the Human Past, if we take the perspective of the "deep past," then all human groups are mixtures of varioous past human populations.

    Furthermore, even within relatively isolated groups, natural selection always continues: i.e., whatever the average IQ difference between Ashkenazi Jews and, let's say, ǃKung San bushmen today may be, that difference might have been very different a couple thousand years ago. And, it may be different a couple thousand years in the future.

    Races are not immutable.

    There is no "essence" of "whiteness" or "Jewishness" or "Chineseness."

    But, of course, that does not change the fact that if you take a snapshot at one point in time, there may be clear statistical differences between two human populations.

    All of this is scientifically elementary and quite obvious, but, I fear, too often ignored by polemicists on both sides.

    Not so much ignored as passed over for being irrelevant and stupid.

  64. So this woman is saying that since Vikings spread out and contacted other cultures and peoples, they more than likely took some of those people into their fold, and thus once that was done, they had become multiracial.

    Yet, she makes no argument to dispute the origin of the Vikings being in present day Scandinavia. And as such, that would have made them White Europeans. The fact they ventured out and found dissimilar peoples, and allowed them into their group does not change this. And I don’t think the White nationalists types even care that the Vikings might have adopted some guy in some far away place. The White nationalists like the Vikings because at their core they were bad ass Europeans who struck fear into the hearts of their foes, European and non-European alike. And White nationalists wish to rekindle that kind of spirit back into modern, deracinated Europeans.

  65. Dorothy Kim. Another troublesome Asian.

    Asian immigrants will ruin America, or what’s left of it.

  66. Anon[383] • Disclaimer says:

    The whole business of woke classics is silly. It assumes that people on the far right are heavily motivated by various ideas about the racial composition of the past, and that if only that could be proven wrong the right would collapse from a shortage of memes.

    The far right is mostly motivated by the here and now, by not wanting black kids in their kids schools, black DAs in charge of enforcing the law, black thugs making it unsafe to live in their cities, and related beefs about Hispanics and other groups.

  67. @PhysicistDave
    As David Reich emphasizes in his book Who We Are and How We Got Here: Ancient DNA and the New Science of the Human Past, if we take the perspective of the "deep past," then all human groups are mixtures of varioous past human populations.

    Furthermore, even within relatively isolated groups, natural selection always continues: i.e., whatever the average IQ difference between Ashkenazi Jews and, let's say, ǃKung San bushmen today may be, that difference might have been very different a couple thousand years ago. And, it may be different a couple thousand years in the future.

    Races are not immutable.

    There is no "essence" of "whiteness" or "Jewishness" or "Chineseness."

    But, of course, that does not change the fact that if you take a snapshot at one point in time, there may be clear statistical differences between two human populations.

    All of this is scientifically elementary and quite obvious, but, I fear, too often ignored by polemicists on both sides.

    Reich was strawmanning. Nobody says races are immutable or that there was no admixture in the past. (The idea of eugenics actually presupposes the mutability of racial characteristics). It felt like he threw that in so he could act like the DNA results are cutting both ways, overturning myths on both sides. Yeah, right. It’s also a stupid idea that past admixture means we have to be enthusiastic about it today. Especially when the “admixture” in ancient times more often than not meant getting conquered and cucked.

    • Agree: Buzz Mohawk
    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    gregor wrote:

    It felt like [David Reich] threw that in so he could act like the DNA results are cutting both ways, overturning myths on both sides. Yeah, right.
     
    "Yeah, right", indeed. He did that because there are myths on both sides.

    We are not Erik the Red or Conan the Barbarian.

    We do not deserve credit for the work of Bach or Newton or Hume or Edison.

    We are not the "white race."

    We are each of us individuals, smart or dumb, hard-working or lazy, creative or unimaginative.

    Each of us deserves credit for what he has done or failed ot do, not for the achievements of the "white race."

    Same thing for Jews, Chinese, and any other race.

    It's interesting the spark I ignited here just by pointing out some uncontestedl facts of science and urging people to read David Reich's fascinating book.

    Reich got himself in trouble with the SJWs for pointing out the obvious fact that genes influencing intelligence and behavioral traits are obviously going to differ in frequency among different human populations (races and ethnic groups).

    And, it is clear that the facts he presents are equally unwelcome among those "race realists" who want to think that their "race" today is the same "race" as a thousand years ago or that their "race" differs in some essence from other "races."

    Facts are terrible things.
  68. @MikeatMikedotMike
    Dorothy Kim:

    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-OmTsoiJdDbc/WbqVKbpucxI/AAAAAAAADLM/rEwMB-aixi8LJyIXyYVaXjRvWIlIyr5-ACLcBGAs/s320/Dorothy%2BKim.jpg

    Dumpy Asian broads teaching revisionist history is who we are.

    Mierda Sagrada, talk about a landwhale….if she had to haul ass it would take 4 or 5 trips.

  69. @Paleo Liberal
    Vikings colonized parts of North Africa and Western Asia. They also regularly raided parts of N and W Africa.

    They also got into Greenland and Vinland, which were not white.

    However, they really weren’t that multi racial a group.

    Multi Culti sure, but not exactly what is meant by multi cultural these days. They got into parts of Russia, and the Viking culture in Russia was very different from the Viking culture in Iceland or Norway.

    “Multi Culti sure, but not exactly what is meant by multi cultural these days”

    The Vikings were very much into invading your country and raping your women. That is *exactly* what is meant by modern “multiculturalism.”

  70. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    I kinda like the White people who made the modern world.

    They are basically the same as they were when they started the project half a millennium ago. It would be a shame if they were bastardized, sidelined and reduced to impotency. It would be better if they had some say in who they are and what they want their world to be.

    The characteristics that enabled White people to circle the globe and rise above it came about via that process Reich describes. Those are the traits of the first people to explore the entire planet -- and who then went on to explore every other planet that orbits the Sun.

    Now those people are being shamed for what they are. They are being singled out for any bad thing they have ever done -- even though every other race has done the same bad things. At the same time, they are being denied credit for their essential role in creating most of what is good in the world now, for doing good things that no one else had ever done.

    Let's not do anything to hasten their rate of change -- or to deny the fact that they have been A People for a long time now.

    The characteristics that enabled White people to circle the globe and rise above it came about via that process Reich describes. Those are the traits of the first people to explore the entire planet — and who then went on to explore every other planet that orbits the Sun.

    Now those people are being shamed for what they are. They are being singled out for any bad thing they have ever done — even though every other race has done the same bad things. At the same time, they are being denied credit for their essential role in creating most of what is good in the world now, for doing good things that no one else had ever done.

    That was Bob Whitaker’s position in a nutshell. He was well worth studying, although hrd to understand sometimes because of his occasional malapropisms.

  71. @J.Ross
    A judge in Chicago upheld the right of a Jew to exclude his children from his will if they married goyim; a judge in Canada permitted the raiding and ending of a scholarship fund that had been set up (long ago) specifically for white men. That's the entire issue. "Scientific" race is Lucy's football.

    A judge in Chicago upheld the right of a Jew to exclude his children from his will if they married goyim; a judge in Canada permitted the raiding and ending of a scholarship fund that had been set up (long ago) specifically for white men. That’s the entire issue. “Scientific” race is Lucy’s football.

    The judge in Chicago is correct. It’s ok for a Jew to be anti-gentile, as is the reverse. His money, his rules.

    The judge in Canada is a P.O.S. Sadly typical judicial supremacist behavior. They fancy themselves philosopher kings.

    • Replies: @Ed
    When Stephen Girard, one of the wealthiest men in colonial America, died he bequeathed monies to found a school for,"poor, white, male" orphans. The school was founded and admitted such students for 100 years. Then the civil rights era came. There was a battle to desegregate for 14 years after Brown v Board of Ed. although the case itself didn’t desegregate the school. The first black students were admitted in 1968 and girls in the 80s. Evidently the school is 90% black today although judging by the pics it just looks 90% non-white.

    https://www.girardcollege.edu/stephen-girard

    http://northerncity.library.temple.edu/exhibits/show/civil-rights-in-a-northern-cit/collections/desegregation-of-girard-colleg/what-interpretative-essay
    , @Mr McKenna
    Yes, but there is that consistency among the rulings. Anything that redounds to the detriment of white people is permissible. That's pretty much where jurisprudence is headed, along with the rest of the culture. The rest is window dressing.
  72. Kim is the same disgusting pig who has been slandering the heroic Rachel Fulton Brown.

  73. @guest
    One wonders why Sea Pirates, I mean Vikings are engulfed in the multiculti warmth of human kindness when they colonize this or that, but later European colonists commit the most heinous and inhuman acts this side of the Nazis. All the while maintaining pure whiteness.

    If the hated enemies of academic history stopped displaying runes and crossed hammers and instead cosplayed as Francis Drake and King Leopold, would we suddenly discover Europe during the Age of Exploration wasn't the White Devil at all? That it was the fault of browns, reds, yellows, and whatever?

    One of these days, people are going to look back and wonder why so many white people were obsessed with not being racist to the point where they saw nothing wrong with destroying their own middle-class living, their own country, and Western Civilization.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    Some of us are already wondering that.
  74. @Anon
    The scary thing is that this technique is so effective for the left.

    They plant the seed of whatever they want to meme into reality in some obscure place. Sometimes it is a minor, weakly peer reviewed academic journal.
    Sometimes it is an obscure court case involving people nobody cares about.

    Then someone else makes a similar case and uses that article as a reference or the obscure court case as a legal precedent. The original authors in turn publish/litigate using the new authors as their own support.

    This continues until just a few dozen individuals have managed to establish what appears to be sound legal precedent or "settled science" on the flimsiest of pretexts.

    And they get away with it every single time.

    I remember reading in a "far right" forum about this new movie coming out that was going to turn America's history of its space program upside down. "They" were going to turn an obscure black woman who did the long division that the real scientists didn't have time for into the new Werner vonBraun. It had links to interviews where this woman stated she was proud to be part of the program but never really understood the science behind the equations she was crunching.

    I remember thinking how ridiculous the article was. That could never happen, and besides they had provided links to material refuting the entire premise. Didn't think much of it until a year later my kids were forced to watch "Hidden Figures" in school.

    Now the whole world KNOWS that we only landed on the moon because of the brave black women inventing entirely new fields of mathematics despite the evil white men holding them back and forcing them to walk a half mile to the colored restroom. Search for American mathematicians and Google puts her front and center.

    So many advances the left has made has been using this tactic. It's fun to snark at such a ridiculous premise, but every child in elementary school will KNOW by graduation that the Vikings were a diverse group of whites, blacks and muslims. I mean, why would they let a black man guard Ragnarok if the Vikings weren't black themselves?

    There’s no H(istory) in STEM so conservatives (sic) couldn’t be bothered to give a shit.

  75. @Anonymous

    So far, however, the most widespread, concerted and effective way to fight back against this historical white supremacist Viking genealogy has come not from academics or journalists.

    Rather, it has come from Taika Waititi, the indigenous Maori director and writer. His movie Thor: Ragnarok — in which Thor’s hammer, a medieval item regularly brandished by extremists, is destroyed — was a multiracial and postcolonial counternarrative to the white Viking narrative circulating through the alt-right digital ecosystem.
     

    His father is Māori of Te Whānau-ā-Apanui and his mother is of Russian Jewish heritage.[7][8] Waititi has used his mother's surname, "Cohen", for some of his work in film and writing.[9]
     

    His movie Thor: Ragnarok — in which Thor’s hammer, a medieval item regularly brandished by extremists, is destroyed — was a multiracial and postcolonial counternarrative to the white Viking narrative circulating through the alt-right digital ecosystem.

    I guess the whole “Hollywood adaptation of a superhero comic book only very, very loosely inspired by actual Scandinavian culture” kind of escaped Ms. Kim.

    • Replies: @guest
    Okay, but you have to set your mind contra-evul "white nationalists."

    Nevermind that Thor's hammer as a prop in Marvel movies has little to do with historical Vikings. Thor's hammer is used as a talisman by badwhites. Which I know because it's on the ADL's hate symbol database. I checked.
    , @ben tillman

    I guess the whole “Hollywood adaptation of a superhero comic book only very, very loosely inspired by actual Scandinavian culture” kind of escaped Ms. Kim.
     
    I doubt it. She explicitly advocated lying about our (not her) past, and that's why she praised the work.
  76. @PhysicistDave
    As David Reich emphasizes in his book Who We Are and How We Got Here: Ancient DNA and the New Science of the Human Past, if we take the perspective of the "deep past," then all human groups are mixtures of varioous past human populations.

    Furthermore, even within relatively isolated groups, natural selection always continues: i.e., whatever the average IQ difference between Ashkenazi Jews and, let's say, ǃKung San bushmen today may be, that difference might have been very different a couple thousand years ago. And, it may be different a couple thousand years in the future.

    Races are not immutable.

    There is no "essence" of "whiteness" or "Jewishness" or "Chineseness."

    But, of course, that does not change the fact that if you take a snapshot at one point in time, there may be clear statistical differences between two human populations.

    All of this is scientifically elementary and quite obvious, but, I fear, too often ignored by polemicists on both sides.

    All of this is scientifically elementary and quite obvious, but, I fear, too often ignored by polemicists on both sides.

    What a pompous asshole you are, Physicist Dave.

    I wonder what sort of physicist you actually are.

    • LOL: Mr McKenna
    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    David Davenport wrote to me:

    What a pompous asshole you are, Physicist Dave.
     
    Coming from you, I'll take that as a compliment.

    DD also asked:

    I wonder what sort of physicist you actually are.
     
    I've mentioned that many times here before: some of our more obnoxious friends said they did not want to keep hearing about my bio.

    But, since you insist:

    Studied under Dick Feynman at Caltech

    Ph.D from Stanford in particle physics

    Analog circuit design (that helped win a technical Emmy for our group)

    Semiconductor device physicist

    Co-inventor on multiple patents on error-correction systems for satellite-communication systems and hard-disk drives
     
    Your turn to tell me how stupid I am and how you are so much smarter than I.

    Go for it.
  77. I mean, a cocktail party attended by Swedes and Norwegians is a multicultural–and perhaps even multiethnic event–technically speaking. It depends on what your definition of is is.

  78. @Anonymous

    So far, however, the most widespread, concerted and effective way to fight back against this historical white supremacist Viking genealogy has come not from academics or journalists.

    Rather, it has come from Taika Waititi, the indigenous Maori director and writer. His movie Thor: Ragnarok — in which Thor’s hammer, a medieval item regularly brandished by extremists, is destroyed — was a multiracial and postcolonial counternarrative to the white Viking narrative circulating through the alt-right digital ecosystem.
     

    His father is Māori of Te Whānau-ā-Apanui and his mother is of Russian Jewish heritage.[7][8] Waititi has used his mother's surname, "Cohen", for some of his work in film and writing.[9]
     

    “We desecrated their holy things — in effigy — without their knowledge. That’ll show them, as well as proving how advanced we are!”

  79. @Anon
    The scary thing is that this technique is so effective for the left.

    They plant the seed of whatever they want to meme into reality in some obscure place. Sometimes it is a minor, weakly peer reviewed academic journal.
    Sometimes it is an obscure court case involving people nobody cares about.

    Then someone else makes a similar case and uses that article as a reference or the obscure court case as a legal precedent. The original authors in turn publish/litigate using the new authors as their own support.

    This continues until just a few dozen individuals have managed to establish what appears to be sound legal precedent or "settled science" on the flimsiest of pretexts.

    And they get away with it every single time.

    I remember reading in a "far right" forum about this new movie coming out that was going to turn America's history of its space program upside down. "They" were going to turn an obscure black woman who did the long division that the real scientists didn't have time for into the new Werner vonBraun. It had links to interviews where this woman stated she was proud to be part of the program but never really understood the science behind the equations she was crunching.

    I remember thinking how ridiculous the article was. That could never happen, and besides they had provided links to material refuting the entire premise. Didn't think much of it until a year later my kids were forced to watch "Hidden Figures" in school.

    Now the whole world KNOWS that we only landed on the moon because of the brave black women inventing entirely new fields of mathematics despite the evil white men holding them back and forcing them to walk a half mile to the colored restroom. Search for American mathematicians and Google puts her front and center.

    So many advances the left has made has been using this tactic. It's fun to snark at such a ridiculous premise, but every child in elementary school will KNOW by graduation that the Vikings were a diverse group of whites, blacks and muslims. I mean, why would they let a black man guard Ragnarok if the Vikings weren't black themselves?

    That was a major Hollywood picture with millions in advertising behind it. So not your drips and drabs model.

    (Even if I hadn’t been skeptical, I saw her rolled onstage at the Oscars and like I assume much of the world said to myself: “Hey, she looks pretty white.” )

    But you’re right, most of it happens imperceptibly. What is it they say, our culture is whatever was being taught at Harvard 20 years ago? How does it happen? Well, one way is the people who heard this nonsense are later put in charge of teaching other people. Then their pupils go out in the world and produce things that regular people eat up without knowing how silly and/or evil it is.

  80. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Dorothy Kim:

    Crucially, Vilhelm Grønbach’s multi-volume work Vor Folkeæt I Oldtiden (The Cultures of the Teutons) imagined an ancient Germanic genealogy that ran from Tacitus through the Middle Ages.

    German scholarly work during the eve of the Third Reich then added to this idea, with authors like Gustav Neckel and Bernhard Kummer blaming socialism, Jews and class revolutions for the “decline” of a Germanic race they saw descending from this Viking past.
     
    Wrong, Dotty. It’s well known that Germania is the spirit of a majestic bloody African Kween who likes to get it on.

    Play full screen / full res / full sound. You’re welcome.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeQM1c-XCDc

    It’s well known that Germania is the spirit of a majestic bloody African Kween who likes to get it on.

    Why anyone not blind thinks this video is Neo-Nazi propaganda is beyond me. Doubly so for German speakers (“I can’t give [Germany] my love” as the ultimate line? Seriously?)

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    It is what it is. Rammstein are known for double meanings and paradoxical juxtapositions in their lyrics and visuals. Deutschland the video is simultaneously glorious and rousing, brutal and disgusting and even campy in parts. It is both a condemnation and celebration of the more dramatic aspects of a particular Volksgeist—at once demonic and divine, ruthless and repentant. So in it there’s really something for everyone.
  81. Anonymous[388] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kibernetika
    Preachy, preachy. A "Korean" Cotton Mather.

    Disclaimer: I want to be perfectly clear about this, too -- folks of Korean peninsula ancestry should embrace their Chinese- and Japanese-contributed admixture (not to mention others). It's who they are.

    South Korea has embraced the Judeo-Protestant culture of the West and will now reap its rewards.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/south-korea-court-strikes-down-six-decade-old-abortion-ban/2019/04/11/0200f028-5c43-11e9-842d-7d3ed7eb3957_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.74ed40f519bd

    South Korea court strikes down six-decade-old abortion ban

  82. @Random Smartaleck

    His movie Thor: Ragnarok — in which Thor’s hammer, a medieval item regularly brandished by extremists, is destroyed — was a multiracial and postcolonial counternarrative to the white Viking narrative circulating through the alt-right digital ecosystem.
     
    I guess the whole "Hollywood adaptation of a superhero comic book only very, very loosely inspired by actual Scandinavian culture" kind of escaped Ms. Kim.

    Okay, but you have to set your mind contra-evul “white nationalists.”

    Nevermind that Thor’s hammer as a prop in Marvel movies has little to do with historical Vikings. Thor’s hammer is used as a talisman by badwhites. Which I know because it’s on the ADL’s hate symbol database. I checked.

  83. It’s Nordic/Scandic/Finnish/Germanic diversity … but we all look the same to untrained, un-woke non-sociologists..

  84. @Steve Sailer
    Pretty much every Los Angeles Rams NFL player in the 1960s-1970s got a shot at movie or TV stardom, and several made it: Merlin Olsen and Fred Dreyer, with Bernie Casey becoming a character actor doing lots of teachers as in Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure and police superintendents.

    Pretty much every Los Angeles Rams NFL player in the 1960s-1970s got a shot at movie or TV stardom

    Jack Snow appeared on “Bewitched” for a quick scene playing himself. I don’t think he did too much else. He wasn’t interested in being an actor.

  85. I don’t know about multiracial, but the pre-Viking nordic people aligned themselves with the Huns against the Roman empire. The Huns were apparently Siberians, and there’s a lot of fairly recent Siberian ancestry in Finns and Balts (N1c — originally from Manchuria). Rurik was N1c, which means he was at least part Siberian, and he was considered a Viking of sorts (Varangian).

    So not really multiracial, but there were some non-European elements in at least some of the early Vikings.

    But I don’t think this is what Kim means.

    • Replies: @Jaakko Raipala
    N1c shows up in 3500 years old remains in Finland/Scandinavia/nearby Russia. Calling that "fairly recent" Siberian ancestry is a bit misleading. Matching N1c doesn't mean that Rurik was in any meaningful sense "part Siberian", it just means that his great-great-great-etc-grandfather from 2500 years before had carried the N1c marker.

    N1c probably wasn't even brought into the Baltic Sea / Scandinavia area by "Siberian" or fully Asian phenotype people, N1c existed in the European part of Russia for much longer and the N1c carrying people who migranted further West to the Baltic Sea were very likely northern European / Asian mixes like Finns are.

    N1c also doesn't seem to be Siberian in origin, the oldest N1c is found on the steppe or near it in Manchuria and it's newer in Siberia. N1c is only found in those Siberian peoples like Yakuts etc who were already thought to have migrated from the south during historical times. It is not found among paleo-Siberians.

    A big part of this confusion is that academics refuse to say "Mongoloid" so they use various euphemisms and they often replace it with something like "Siberian". So even though there's no actual evidence that N1c even traveled to northern Europe through Siberia, you have these academics who keep talking about "Siberian ancestry" since they don't want to say "Mongoloid ancestry".

    N1c could have come through the Central Asian steppe from present day China and landed in the steppe/forest boundary near the Volga river in Europe which is where the Finno-Ugric homeland is presumed to be by linguistic evidence. Then it would have spread from there to the Baltic Sea and Western Siberia, making a perfect match with linguistics.
  86. But far-right Viking medievalism is not about historical accuracy. Rather, it’s used to create narratives. So, to resist the medieval narratives that activate violent hate, we must create counternarratives — and to do that, we must understand the real Viking past and how it has been weaponized.

    Erasing whites from the past will help us erase them from the future.

  87. @Random Smartaleck

    His movie Thor: Ragnarok — in which Thor’s hammer, a medieval item regularly brandished by extremists, is destroyed — was a multiracial and postcolonial counternarrative to the white Viking narrative circulating through the alt-right digital ecosystem.
     
    I guess the whole "Hollywood adaptation of a superhero comic book only very, very loosely inspired by actual Scandinavian culture" kind of escaped Ms. Kim.

    I guess the whole “Hollywood adaptation of a superhero comic book only very, very loosely inspired by actual Scandinavian culture” kind of escaped Ms. Kim.

    I doubt it. She explicitly advocated lying about our (not her) past, and that’s why she praised the work.

  88. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Wasn’t Jack Youngblood a character actor as well? Played in Super Bowl XIV on a broken leg.

    Yes, he was.

  89. @J.Ross
    A judge in Chicago upheld the right of a Jew to exclude his children from his will if they married goyim; a judge in Canada permitted the raiding and ending of a scholarship fund that had been set up (long ago) specifically for white men. That's the entire issue. "Scientific" race is Lucy's football.

    A judge in Chicago upheld the right of a Jew to exclude his children from his will if they married goyim; a judge in Canada permitted the raiding and ending of a scholarship fund that had been set up (long ago) specifically for white men.

    Steve went to a school like that.

  90. @Chris Mallory

    Baseball is slowly being taken over by Asians as well.

     

    If by "Asians" you mean "Hispanics", then you might be close.

    According to this site:
    https://sabr.org/bioproj/topic/baseball-demographics-1947-2012

    Asians have hovered around 2% for 15 years. Blacks hit a high in 1975 at 18.5%, they are now down to 6.7% Whites have bounced around the low 60's for 20 years. Hispanics in baseball have grown fairly consistently from 11% in the mid 80's to 27% now.

    Many or most of the Hispanics are black. The 6.7% figure is way too low.

    • Replies: @Chris Mallory
    Hey, if you were a rich ball player wouldn't you quit being black too?

    But radio is the only way to properly enjoy a game if you aren't in the park in person.
  91. Yet another woke Korean woman, WTF?

    Korean women have now joined Indian women as the most woke Asians. The Indians run for office. The Koreans join the media.

    Time to send them all packing.

  92. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    “Furthermore, even within relatively isolated groups, natural selection always continues”

    But natural selection would only occur within a specific isolated group. If there were no people of color/East Asian/Australasian/etc in Europe say, 50,000 years ago, then the DNA remains constant, and Europe would only contain Caucasian DNA during these 50 millennia.
    Duh.



    “whatever the average IQ difference between Ashkenazi Jews and, let’s say, ǃKung San bushmen today may be, that difference might have been very different a couple thousand years ago. “

    Uh yes, it might’ve been even worse. But this is subjective speculation a la “could be, should be, who knows” exactly. And science deals with what is, what is known at present, and facts.

    “And, it may be different a couple thousand years in the future.”

    Subjectivism for the most part, makes for poor science. Science deals in facts and not whimsical thinking dreaming.

    Suppose The Ming dynasty was largely comprised of sub Saharan African bushman but it was covered up for over a thousand years? Suppose Caucasians we’re living in Antarctica 5,000 years ago?

    Whimsical magical thinking has little place in science.

    Yojimbo/Zatoichi wrote to me:

    But natural selection would only occur within a specific isolated group. If there were no people of color/East Asian/Australasian/etc in Europe say, 50,000 years ago, then the DNA remains constant, and Europe would only contain Caucasian DNA during these 50 millennia.
    Duh.

    No, that’s just wrong. If there are different alleles present within the population, there will be natural selection.

    And, mutations happen, which continue to produce different alleles on an ongoing basis.

    YZ also wrote:

    [Dave]“whatever the average IQ difference between Ashkenazi Jews and, let’s say, ǃKung San bushmen today may be, that difference might have been very different a couple thousand years ago. “

    [YZ]Uh yes, it might’ve been even worse. But this is subjective speculation a la “could be, should be, who knows” exactly. And science deals with what is, what is known at present, and facts.

    Wrong again. Mathematically, it is almost impossible that natural selection would not have made changes during those two millennia.

    Stuff happens.

    YZ also wrote:

    Suppose The Ming dynasty was largely comprised of sub Saharan African bushman but it was covered up for over a thousand years? Suppose Caucasians we’re living in Antarctica 5,000 years ago?

    Nothing to do with what I was talking about.

    Genetically, the Chinese of today are just not the Chinese of the Ming dynasty: just not possible. Allele frequencies change. Mutations happen.

    Ming dynasty Chinese are of course closer genetically to contemporary Chinese than to contemporary !Kung San. But, go back far enough and that is not true. Obviously, Cinese of today are closer to !Kung San of today than they are to Peking Man.

    Genes within a population change over time. There is no “essence” to races.

    What is the relevant time scale? It depends — read Reich’s book. I’d say offhand ten to twenty thousand years, based on his book. But it can vary widely.

    And, all modern races are the result of past hybridization events, repeated again and again. Again, read Reich. Timescale? Depends on what people do — conquest, voluntary intermarriage, etc.

    Again, read Reich’s book: the evidence on this is certain and conclusive — close to being as conclusive as the heliocentric theory vs. Ptolemy.

    The detailed data we now possess on all this is really quite fascinating. Read Reich.

    • Replies: @Joseph Doaks
    History Channel?
    , @Joseph Doaks
    "There is no “essence” to races."

    Nor species either, if you go back far enough. So what?
  93. But didn’t the Vikings kidnap Celtic women from Ireland?

    They impregnated Celtic women in Ireland.

  94. This is almost as much revisionist history as the black advisers for William the Conqueror on the BBC. But what do you expect from an Oriental woman?

  95. @Buzz Mohawk
    I kinda like the White people who made the modern world.

    They are basically the same as they were when they started the project half a millennium ago. It would be a shame if they were bastardized, sidelined and reduced to impotency. It would be better if they had some say in who they are and what they want their world to be.

    The characteristics that enabled White people to circle the globe and rise above it came about via that process Reich describes. Those are the traits of the first people to explore the entire planet -- and who then went on to explore every other planet that orbits the Sun.

    Now those people are being shamed for what they are. They are being singled out for any bad thing they have ever done -- even though every other race has done the same bad things. At the same time, they are being denied credit for their essential role in creating most of what is good in the world now, for doing good things that no one else had ever done.

    Let's not do anything to hasten their rate of change -- or to deny the fact that they have been A People for a long time now.

    Buzz Mohawk wrote to me:

    I kinda like the White people who made the modern world.

    They are basically the same as they were when they started the project half a millennium ago. It would be a shame if they were bastardized, sidelined and reduced to impotency. It would be better if they had some say in who they are and what they want their world to be.

    No, they are most certainly not “basically the same as they were when they started the project half a millennium ago.”

    It has never been true that all social classes, all levels of intelligence, etc. always had the same number of children: allele frequencies among Europeans have certainly shifted for a plethora of reasons during the last half millennium.

    And, it is still continuing: unfortunately, in recent decades it seems that dumb people have been having more kids than smart people.

    This will alter the average traits of population groups of European origin.

    Obviously.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    Yes, but where would you draw the line? Are we still the same race that "we" were 500 years ago, when "we" began making the most important progress in human history? Judging by paintings that show phenotypes, and by writings that describe thoughts, we are.

    The social classes of the past few centuries were still part of a very large family. They had similar physical and mental characteristics. They were recognizable as the same race. So, the rich big brothers and sisters had more children and passed on more genes. Or whatever, but they shared so many more with their extended relatives in other cohorts that the family has continued and still has its "essential" characteristics. If it didn't, we would not find our ancestors familiar.

    One reason I choose 500 years ago as significant is because many see that as the time when significant genetic changes had in fact happened in sufficient quantities and of specific types to make modern Europeans different from their predecessors in important ways that led to the modern world. Specifically, execution of violent criminals over time had culled some of the worst elements and made possible a higher trust, more peaceful society, one that could work and organize in a different way. That's when Europe took off.

    Your reply begs the question of when to decide we are significantly different, or how different we have become at any given time. You state the undeniable fact that we change a little bit with each generation. Yes, but by how much, and is that relevant to this discussion? I agree with you that we have gotten dumber rather recently, and that this may be a time of rapid de-evolution for Whites, but I think that up until the shocking now we have shared a racial identity that goes back far enough to count as something. Do you?

    You say there is no essence to our kind or any other, but there are clear differences during periods of history that distinguish one race or people from another. The proof is in the different outcomes during those periods. Your task is to decide when enough members of a set of characteristics have been replaced by enough others, such that the previous set no longer satisfies enough "essential" requirements. This is philisophical hair-splitting. At some point we just say, okay, those people were of a different type.

    You're a physicist, so you understand the concept of a continuum.

    Listen. When I read your post, I almost commented that you were stating the obvious. I have read Reich's book too, and mostly the general evidence of how people mixed was pretty much what I expected. Not who and from where exactly, but just the general fact that it happened, and the rate at which it happened. There is nothing surprising there.

    Do you agree that we are now experiencing a mass migration into our homelands that, if allowed to continue, will hasten the rate of change? And do you agree that this migration is different from the one's Reich discovered, in that it is rapid, is happening for political and ideological reasons, and is facilitated by the mass media and transportation that were, ironically, invented by White men? (Whom you say were not like us!) Do you agree that we could stop it, if only we had the political power?

    Again, what you wrote should have been signed "Captain Obvious," and it doesn't address the point that we share most of the characteristics of our ancestors in the modern era. You don't need to quibble in an almost spergy way about the "obvious" fact that some changes have happened and happen continuously.

    At some point, my ancestors had changed to the point that they were Modern White Men, and they were different from what their ancestors were before. I am still a Modern White Man. Furthermore, such changes don't necessarily happen linearly. Rates of change can change, even in our own evolution.

    In a physical analogy of this temporal subject, it is hard to know on the world map where one race stops and another begins, but we can identify the races, just as we can see where one hill is next to another hill.

    Finally, do you agree that the concept of race is useful and important? That a sense of connection to our ancestors is important? Or, would you rather we just think of ourselves as an amorphous blob soaking in whatever comes along and leaving behind whatever kind of ooze and forgetting about it?

    , @Buzz Mohawk
    Here is a follow-up to my other reply. It was intended for you, but I erroneously posted it as a reply to myself. I am rambling. No doubt you will make me look stupid.

    -------------------------

    You might need some clarification to satisfy your mind and preclude you from pretending that I don’t understand the rate of DNA replacement from generation to generation.

    What YOU might call the rate is the sense that with every generation back, we each have twice as many ancestors. By the time you get back ten generations, only half of your ancestors contributed any DNA to you. Sections of DNA drop off rather quickly. This is one of the ways you can say we are not the same kind of people as our ancestors, but that is leaving out the other factor:

    The degree of change, or the significance of it. If all of your ancestors came from the same gene pool, the same extended racial family, you will have inherited things that are more comparable than what would come from another gene pool from a different extended racial family. Those strands would be more different. That is a higher degree of change.

    Put those two things together, one unchanging function and one variable, and you get what I was calling the rate of racial change. What makes it vary is the degree to which your ancestors differed from each other (excluding inbreeding and cousin marriage) and how big and diverse the available genes were at any given time. Again, this is “obvious” in Reich’s book; otherwise he wouldn’t have any reason to discover and map out all the different groups of people who migrated and mixed. Those migrations caused significant changes, while DNA dropped its strands at the same old rate it always does.

    I am simplifying, but you are oversimplifying when you just blanket your whole argument with change for every population at all times as if it is always of the same degree, without specifying how big or different the gene pools are, and how much they are mixing.
  96. @David Davenport
    All of this is scientifically elementary and quite obvious, but, I fear, too often ignored by polemicists on both sides.

    What a pompous asshole you are, Physicist Dave.

    I wonder what sort of physicist you actually are.

    David Davenport wrote to me:

    What a pompous asshole you are, Physicist Dave.

    Coming from you, I’ll take that as a compliment.

    DD also asked:

    I wonder what sort of physicist you actually are.

    I’ve mentioned that many times here before: some of our more obnoxious friends said they did not want to keep hearing about my bio.

    But, since you insist:

    Studied under Dick Feynman at Caltech

    Ph.D from Stanford in particle physics

    Analog circuit design (that helped win a technical Emmy for our group)

    Semiconductor device physicist

    Co-inventor on multiple patents on error-correction systems for satellite-communication systems and hard-disk drives

    Your turn to tell me how stupid I am and how you are so much smarter than I.

    Go for it.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Did you know Widlar, Pease, or Jim Williams?
    , @Mr McKenna
    Sorry you're still butt-hurt--weeks later!--but it was nice having a few days' respite from your embarrassing habit of bragging on the internet. Too bad you still haven't learned your lesson.
  97. @gregor
    Reich was strawmanning. Nobody says races are immutable or that there was no admixture in the past. (The idea of eugenics actually presupposes the mutability of racial characteristics). It felt like he threw that in so he could act like the DNA results are cutting both ways, overturning myths on both sides. Yeah, right. It’s also a stupid idea that past admixture means we have to be enthusiastic about it today. Especially when the “admixture” in ancient times more often than not meant getting conquered and cucked.

    gregor wrote:

    It felt like [David Reich] threw that in so he could act like the DNA results are cutting both ways, overturning myths on both sides. Yeah, right.

    “Yeah, right”, indeed. He did that because there are myths on both sides.

    We are not Erik the Red or Conan the Barbarian.

    We do not deserve credit for the work of Bach or Newton or Hume or Edison.

    We are not the “white race.”

    We are each of us individuals, smart or dumb, hard-working or lazy, creative or unimaginative.

    Each of us deserves credit for what he has done or failed ot do, not for the achievements of the “white race.”

    Same thing for Jews, Chinese, and any other race.

    It’s interesting the spark I ignited here just by pointing out some uncontestedl facts of science and urging people to read David Reich’s fascinating book.

    Reich got himself in trouble with the SJWs for pointing out the obvious fact that genes influencing intelligence and behavioral traits are obviously going to differ in frequency among different human populations (races and ethnic groups).

    And, it is clear that the facts he presents are equally unwelcome among those “race realists” who want to think that their “race” today is the same “race” as a thousand years ago or that their “race” differs in some essence from other “races.”

    Facts are terrible things.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    One can never step into the same river twice, but the Amazon still differs - yes, in essence - from the Nile.

    Likewise the hyper-individualism/atomization you advocate turns out to preclude the very accomplishment you cherish. Shoulders of giants.
    , @Jenner Ickham Errican

    We do not deserve credit for the work of Bach or Newton or Hume or Edison.
     
    Well of course not: You have the arrow of causation backwards. Now if, say, one of Mozart’s white grandparents had mated with a Congo Pygmy, a typical Mozart piece might have been thus (skip to 1:34) :

    https://youtu.be/9aofoBrFNdg?t=94

    Entertaining, to be sure, but not quite the same.

    OTOH, here’s some top notch Austrian rap:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTlSjRMx5Ic
  98. @Paleo Liberal
    Sometimes I wonder if a subset of Asians will be the ones to preserve Weatern culture. Already we are seeing plenty of Asian musicians, ranging from pop to classical. The J-pop and K-pop girls are not dumpy. Nor are some of the better known female classical musicians, such as Vanessa Mae and Yuja Wang.

    The first big name in Asian classical musicians was Yo-Yo Ma, who was born in Paris and raised in the US, though. Older gentleman now.

    Baseball is slowly being taken over by Asians as well. The first big name Asian in the Majors was Mets pitcher Ron Darling, an American born half-blooded Asian. Now there are a number of Asians in the majors.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Damn.

    See also:

    https://youtu.be/X6s6YKlTpfw

    Quality knows quality.
    , @Paleo Liberal
    Well, it took bands like the Beatles to popularize Chuck Berry in your native England.

    Why not singers like her to popularize Western Classical Music in Asia?
  99. @Steve Sailer
    Pretty much every Los Angeles Rams NFL player in the 1960s-1970s got a shot at movie or TV stardom, and several made it: Merlin Olsen and Fred Dreyer, with Bernie Casey becoming a character actor doing lots of teachers as in Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure and police superintendents.

    And of course, Chuck Connors briefly played first base for the Los Angeles Dodgers.

    I’ve read that the major reason why LeBron James signed with the Lakers was to get close to Hollywood.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    LeBron was reasonably funny playing himself in an Amy Schumer comedy a few years ago. I think it's harder, though, these days to switch from sports to acting.

    A couple of pro wrestlers, The Rock and now John Cena, have pulled it off, The Rock on a huge scale after a decade of trying without that much success, Cena on a smaller scale. It's not impossible to think that LeBron could see himself as the successor to Schwarzenegger and Duane Johnson as an action movie hero.

  100. @John Derbyshire
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbUnNbq2-dM

    Damn.

    See also:

    Quality knows quality.

    • Agree: PhysicistDave
    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    They're so fortunate to have their own countries. Methinks it's part of the reason they can pay such good respect to the great works of western civ. Hence, perhaps, why we can't.
    , @guest
    They really should do Mahler's Symphony of a Thousand.
  101. @guest
    One wonders why Sea Pirates, I mean Vikings are engulfed in the multiculti warmth of human kindness when they colonize this or that, but later European colonists commit the most heinous and inhuman acts this side of the Nazis. All the while maintaining pure whiteness.

    If the hated enemies of academic history stopped displaying runes and crossed hammers and instead cosplayed as Francis Drake and King Leopold, would we suddenly discover Europe during the Age of Exploration wasn't the White Devil at all? That it was the fault of browns, reds, yellows, and whatever?

    That there, sir, is good thinking.

  102. @FPD72
    And of course, Chuck Connors briefly played first base for the Los Angeles Dodgers.

    I’ve read that the major reason why LeBron James signed with the Lakers was to get close to Hollywood.

    LeBron was reasonably funny playing himself in an Amy Schumer comedy a few years ago. I think it’s harder, though, these days to switch from sports to acting.

    A couple of pro wrestlers, The Rock and now John Cena, have pulled it off, The Rock on a huge scale after a decade of trying without that much success, Cena on a smaller scale. It’s not impossible to think that LeBron could see himself as the successor to Schwarzenegger and Duane Johnson as an action movie hero.

  103. @PhysicistDave
    gregor wrote:

    It felt like [David Reich] threw that in so he could act like the DNA results are cutting both ways, overturning myths on both sides. Yeah, right.
     
    "Yeah, right", indeed. He did that because there are myths on both sides.

    We are not Erik the Red or Conan the Barbarian.

    We do not deserve credit for the work of Bach or Newton or Hume or Edison.

    We are not the "white race."

    We are each of us individuals, smart or dumb, hard-working or lazy, creative or unimaginative.

    Each of us deserves credit for what he has done or failed ot do, not for the achievements of the "white race."

    Same thing for Jews, Chinese, and any other race.

    It's interesting the spark I ignited here just by pointing out some uncontestedl facts of science and urging people to read David Reich's fascinating book.

    Reich got himself in trouble with the SJWs for pointing out the obvious fact that genes influencing intelligence and behavioral traits are obviously going to differ in frequency among different human populations (races and ethnic groups).

    And, it is clear that the facts he presents are equally unwelcome among those "race realists" who want to think that their "race" today is the same "race" as a thousand years ago or that their "race" differs in some essence from other "races."

    Facts are terrible things.

    One can never step into the same river twice, but the Amazon still differs – yes, in essence – from the Nile.

    Likewise the hyper-individualism/atomization you advocate turns out to preclude the very accomplishment you cherish. Shoulders of giants.

    • Agree: Buzz Mohawk
    • Replies: @Bill P
    If you take the atomisation to its logical conclusion, nobody has a right to be proud of anything, because it leads to the conclusion that there is not actually one unitary soul in each of us, but rather a collection of neurons, each doing its own thing.

    As Daniel Dennet says: "There's no one home."

    That's where reductionism leads in the end.

    Of course reason has its deficiencies.
  104. @Random Smartaleck

    It’s well known that Germania is the spirit of a majestic bloody African Kween who likes to get it on.
     
    Why anyone not blind thinks this video is Neo-Nazi propaganda is beyond me. Doubly so for German speakers ("I can't give [Germany] my love" as the ultimate line? Seriously?)

    It is what it is. Rammstein are known for double meanings and paradoxical juxtapositions in their lyrics and visuals. Deutschland the video is simultaneously glorious and rousing, brutal and disgusting and even campy in parts. It is both a condemnation and celebration of the more dramatic aspects of a particular Volksgeist—at once demonic and divine, ruthless and repentant. So in it there’s really something for everyone.

    • Replies: @Random Smartaleck

    Deutschland the video is simultaneously glorious and rousing, brutal and disgusting and even campy in parts. It is both a condemnation and celebration...
     
    I agree, the basic theme is ambivalence toward Germany, which is what makes it even more odd that it's being seen as some sort of resounding declaration of nationalism. I'm guessing it's a combination of 1) Non-German speakers catching an occasional phrase like "Deutschland ueber alln" and jumping to conclusions, and 2) Germans getting uptight – yet again – over the band's playing with fascist aesthetics.

    Then again, maybe "Germania as a black woman" really is a Based commentary on current demographic trends...
  105. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @PhysicistDave
    David Davenport wrote to me:

    What a pompous asshole you are, Physicist Dave.
     
    Coming from you, I'll take that as a compliment.

    DD also asked:

    I wonder what sort of physicist you actually are.
     
    I've mentioned that many times here before: some of our more obnoxious friends said they did not want to keep hearing about my bio.

    But, since you insist:

    Studied under Dick Feynman at Caltech

    Ph.D from Stanford in particle physics

    Analog circuit design (that helped win a technical Emmy for our group)

    Semiconductor device physicist

    Co-inventor on multiple patents on error-correction systems for satellite-communication systems and hard-disk drives
     
    Your turn to tell me how stupid I am and how you are so much smarter than I.

    Go for it.

    Did you know Widlar, Pease, or Jim Williams?

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    Anonymous[427] asked me:

    Did you know Widlar, Pease, or Jim Williams?
     
    No, I was a good deal younger, and the "analog" side of the company I worked for specialized in A/D and D/A converters. Real analog engineers would probably say I was too digital, and I'm never quite sure how to describe my work in one or two words to EEs. My own work was, though, focused on the analog aspects of the A/Ds -- frequency response, non-linearities, etc.
  106. @PhysicistDave
    Buzz Mohawk wrote to me:

    I kinda like the White people who made the modern world.

    They are basically the same as they were when they started the project half a millennium ago. It would be a shame if they were bastardized, sidelined and reduced to impotency. It would be better if they had some say in who they are and what they want their world to be.
     
    No, they are most certainly not "basically the same as they were when they started the project half a millennium ago."

    It has never been true that all social classes, all levels of intelligence, etc. always had the same number of children: allele frequencies among Europeans have certainly shifted for a plethora of reasons during the last half millennium.

    And, it is still continuing: unfortunately, in recent decades it seems that dumb people have been having more kids than smart people.

    This will alter the average traits of population groups of European origin.

    Obviously.

    Yes, but where would you draw the line? Are we still the same race that “we” were 500 years ago, when “we” began making the most important progress in human history? Judging by paintings that show phenotypes, and by writings that describe thoughts, we are.

    The social classes of the past few centuries were still part of a very large family. They had similar physical and mental characteristics. They were recognizable as the same race. So, the rich big brothers and sisters had more children and passed on more genes. Or whatever, but they shared so many more with their extended relatives in other cohorts that the family has continued and still has its “essential” characteristics. If it didn’t, we would not find our ancestors familiar.

    One reason I choose 500 years ago as significant is because many see that as the time when significant genetic changes had in fact happened in sufficient quantities and of specific types to make modern Europeans different from their predecessors in important ways that led to the modern world. Specifically, execution of violent criminals over time had culled some of the worst elements and made possible a higher trust, more peaceful society, one that could work and organize in a different way. That’s when Europe took off.

    Your reply begs the question of when to decide we are significantly different, or how different we have become at any given time. You state the undeniable fact that we change a little bit with each generation. Yes, but by how much, and is that relevant to this discussion? I agree with you that we have gotten dumber rather recently, and that this may be a time of rapid de-evolution for Whites, but I think that up until the shocking now we have shared a racial identity that goes back far enough to count as something. Do you?

    You say there is no essence to our kind or any other, but there are clear differences during periods of history that distinguish one race or people from another. The proof is in the different outcomes during those periods. Your task is to decide when enough members of a set of characteristics have been replaced by enough others, such that the previous set no longer satisfies enough “essential” requirements. This is philisophical hair-splitting. At some point we just say, okay, those people were of a different type.

    You’re a physicist, so you understand the concept of a continuum.

    Listen. When I read your post, I almost commented that you were stating the obvious. I have read Reich’s book too, and mostly the general evidence of how people mixed was pretty much what I expected. Not who and from where exactly, but just the general fact that it happened, and the rate at which it happened. There is nothing surprising there.

    Do you agree that we are now experiencing a mass migration into our homelands that, if allowed to continue, will hasten the rate of change? And do you agree that this migration is different from the one’s Reich discovered, in that it is rapid, is happening for political and ideological reasons, and is facilitated by the mass media and transportation that were, ironically, invented by White men? (Whom you say were not like us!) Do you agree that we could stop it, if only we had the political power?

    Again, what you wrote should have been signed “Captain Obvious,” and it doesn’t address the point that we share most of the characteristics of our ancestors in the modern era. You don’t need to quibble in an almost spergy way about the “obvious” fact that some changes have happened and happen continuously.

    At some point, my ancestors had changed to the point that they were Modern White Men, and they were different from what their ancestors were before. I am still a Modern White Man. Furthermore, such changes don’t necessarily happen linearly. Rates of change can change, even in our own evolution.

    In a physical analogy of this temporal subject, it is hard to know on the world map where one race stops and another begins, but we can identify the races, just as we can see where one hill is next to another hill.

    Finally, do you agree that the concept of race is useful and important? That a sense of connection to our ancestors is important? Or, would you rather we just think of ourselves as an amorphous blob soaking in whatever comes along and leaving behind whatever kind of ooze and forgetting about it?

    • Agree: Peterike
    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    You might need some clarification to satisfy your mind and preclude you from pretending that I don't understand the rate of DNA replacement from generation to generation.

    What YOU might call the rate is the sense that with every generation back, we each have twice as many ancestors. By the time you get back ten generations, only half of your ancestors contributed any DNA to you. Sections of DNA drop off rather quickly. This is one of the ways you can say we are not the same kind of people as our ancestors, but that is leaving out the other factor:

    The degree of change, or the significance of it. If all of your ancestors came from the same gene pool, the same extended racial family, you will have inherited things that are more comparable than what would come from another gene pool from a different extended racial family. Those strands would be more different. That is a higher degree of change.

    Put those two things together, one unchanging function and one variable, and you get what I was calling the rate of racial change. What makes it vary is the degree to which your ancestors differed from each other (excluding inbreeding and cousin marriage) and how big and diverse the available genes were at any given time. Again, this is "obvious" in Reich's book; otherwise he wouldn't have any reason to discover and map out all the different groups of people who migrated and mixed. Those migrations caused significant changes, while DNA dropped its strands at the same old rate it always does.

    I am simplifying, but you are oversimplifying when you just blanket your whole argument with change for every population at all times as if it is always of the same degree, without specifying how big or different the gene pools are, and how much they are mixing.

    , @PhysicistDave
    Buzz Mohawk wrote to me:

    Yes, but where would you draw the line? Are we still the same race that “we” were 500 years ago, when “we” began making the most important progress in human history?
     
    Well, I'm not actually sure how much you and I disagree.

    Suppose a physician wants to know if there is a good chance that his patient has sickle-cell anemia: knowing that his patient is "black" matters.

    Or, suppose you are traveling in China and you are looking for someone who speaks English: if you see a "white" person, there is a good chance he speaks English (most Europeans traveling abroad speak some English). I.e., "race" can be a very rough and quick (though fallible) indicator of culture.

    But, beyond that very sort of pragmatic, rule-of-thumb situation, I'm not sure why it matters if someone is of the same race as I am. I find it easier to get along with educated, middle-class, responsible Americans of Chinese descent than uneducated, lower-class, irresponsible whites (I'm not referring to working-class whites, whom I generally find to be fine people: I'm referring to the white underclass). I.e., I find that culture trumps race.

    Buzz Mohawk also wrote:

    The social classes of the past few centuries were still part of a very large family. They had similar physical and mental characteristics.
     
    Well, I am not sure that is true. Perhaps educated, rich whites in 1500 A.D. were more similar in intelligence and in behavioral characteristics to educated, rich Chinese in 1500 A.D. than either group were to members of their own societies' underclass.

    That seems to be true today, and I suspect it was true in 1500 A.D.

    Of course, I am just pointing out the well-known fact that, for most traits, there is more variation within a population than there is between the averages of different populations.

    I just think we need to take that seriously: don't assume that there are genetic "white" behavioral traits different than genetic "Chinese" behavioral traits.

    There may of course be differences in the average values of those traits between two different populations, but natural selection can shift those averages with startling rapidity. Going back to Darwin, we see this vividly with how humans have bred different breeds of dogs over surprisingly short time periods.

    It seems to me that cultural differences will often be more important: there is no doubt that there have been very dramatic cultural differences between East Asia and the West, most of which probably have no genetic basis at all.

    Buzz also asked:

    Do you agree that we are now experiencing a mass migration into our homelands that, if allowed to continue, will hasten the rate of change? And do you agree that this migration is different from the one’s Reich discovered, in that it is rapid, is happening for political and ideological reasons, and is facilitated by the mass media and transportation that were, ironically, invented by White men?
     
    Well, some of the recent work suggests that the Beaker Folk occupation of England may have happened pretty fast, also.

    In any case, I'd argue that the real problems with large and rapid immigration are threefold:

    First, is America just too full? Opinions can differ, but if we take in millions each year, it will surely become too crowded in almost anyone's view.

    Second, are we getting smart, responsible people with long time horizons? There are such people in every ethnic group, but our current immigration policy is not selecting for them.

    Finally, are we taking people in in such large numbers that they cannot be successfully assimilated to our culture? We Americans are very, very good at assimilating people, but if the numbers get too large, we will fail.

    Which would be self-defeating from any perspective: foreigners want to come here because of the fruits of our Anglo-European culture -- rule of law, personal freedom, political stability, opportunities for entrepreneurs, the highest scientific and technological achievements in the history of the world, and all the rest.

    You know the joke about the little Vietnamese-American girl who says, "When our ancestors came over on the Mayflower..." I know Vietnamese-Americans for whom that point rings completely true. I'm glad they are here.

    A few other immigrants I've known, well, not so much.

    So, I care not about race but about personal character and, above all, a willingness to preserve and extend the culture that has made this country great.

    I'm happy to have immigrants of any race who meet those criteria. And white folks who don't meet those criteria... well, I hear they can live really cheap in Mexico!
  107. Ed says:
    @AnotherDad

    A judge in Chicago upheld the right of a Jew to exclude his children from his will if they married goyim; a judge in Canada permitted the raiding and ending of a scholarship fund that had been set up (long ago) specifically for white men. That’s the entire issue. “Scientific” race is Lucy’s football.
     
    The judge in Chicago is correct. It's ok for a Jew to be anti-gentile, as is the reverse. His money, his rules.

    The judge in Canada is a P.O.S. Sadly typical judicial supremacist behavior. They fancy themselves philosopher kings.

    When Stephen Girard, one of the wealthiest men in colonial America, died he bequeathed monies to found a school for,”poor, white, male” orphans. The school was founded and admitted such students for 100 years. Then the civil rights era came. There was a battle to desegregate for 14 years after Brown v Board of Ed. although the case itself didn’t desegregate the school. The first black students were admitted in 1968 and girls in the 80s. Evidently the school is 90% black today although judging by the pics it just looks 90% non-white.

    https://www.girardcollege.edu/stephen-girard

    http://northerncity.library.temple.edu/exhibits/show/civil-rights-in-a-northern-cit/collections/desegregation-of-girard-colleg/what-interpretative-essay

    • Replies: @Bill P
    Wow what a story. I searched for more info and found that Girard is now 1% white...

    Girard should have put in a clause that the school was to be liquidated if the rules changed to prevent his will from being carried out faithfully. But hey, at least it lasted for well over 100 years. That's not bad.
  108. @Anonymous
    I guess that would explain Bjork.

    Carleton Coon wrote a tome called The Races of Europe dividing Europeans into various races. But even according to Coon's racial typology, I don't think the Vikings were really multiracial. Most if not all of them would have been a part of the Nordic (or whatever precise category Coon had) race.

    Some of the post-Roman raiding barbarian groups could plausibly be called "multiracial". The Scythians in late antiquity, or the Hunnic confederation, which included various Germanics like the Goths, Slavic groups, Huns, etc., come to mind. But I don't think the Vikings could be described as such.

    Björk’s haplogroup was subject of discussion two decades ago, after genetic sampling of the Icelandic population. She’s Nordic, with the same ancestry as Erik the Red.

    • Replies: @Bill P
    Bjork looks pretty Scandinavian to me. People see the dark complexion and epicanthic fold and think she must be part Asian, but neither trait is all that uncommon in nordic people. It just happened that they were combined in Bjork, and she's also kind of small, which makes people think Japanese or something. The high cheekbones and little nose are also pretty common in nordics.

    I think Bjork was kind of cute in her heyday, but her eyebrows are a little much for my tastes.
  109. @Desiderius
    Damn.

    See also:

    https://youtu.be/X6s6YKlTpfw

    Quality knows quality.

    They’re so fortunate to have their own countries. Methinks it’s part of the reason they can pay such good respect to the great works of western civ. Hence, perhaps, why we can’t.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    We can, and do. Classical music performance is thriving around here. I met my wife in a highly accomplished choir.

    Conservatives (sic) are too busy bitching on the internet to notice.
    , @PhysicistDave
    Mr. McKenna wrote:

    [The Japanese singing the "Ode to Joy" are] so fortunate to have their own countries. Methinks it’s part of the reason they can pay such good respect to the great works of western civ. Hence, perhaps, why we can’t.
     
    Or maybe the Japanese ruling elite just does not hate their own country, their own people, and human civilization in general.

    No one can destroy the West except Westerners themselves -- especially the current ruling elite.
  110. My favorite lunatic assertion in this vein belongs to Yaphet Kotto, who claims to be a cousin of Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith.
    Perhaps the upcoming birth of the first child of His Royal Highness The Duke of Sussex will provide ol’ Kotto with some consolation. I can hardly wait.

  111. @PhysicistDave
    David Davenport wrote to me:

    What a pompous asshole you are, Physicist Dave.
     
    Coming from you, I'll take that as a compliment.

    DD also asked:

    I wonder what sort of physicist you actually are.
     
    I've mentioned that many times here before: some of our more obnoxious friends said they did not want to keep hearing about my bio.

    But, since you insist:

    Studied under Dick Feynman at Caltech

    Ph.D from Stanford in particle physics

    Analog circuit design (that helped win a technical Emmy for our group)

    Semiconductor device physicist

    Co-inventor on multiple patents on error-correction systems for satellite-communication systems and hard-disk drives
     
    Your turn to tell me how stupid I am and how you are so much smarter than I.

    Go for it.

    Sorry you’re still butt-hurt–weeks later!–but it was nice having a few days’ respite from your embarrassing habit of bragging on the internet. Too bad you still haven’t learned your lesson.

    • Troll: PhysicistDave
  112. @AnotherDad

    A judge in Chicago upheld the right of a Jew to exclude his children from his will if they married goyim; a judge in Canada permitted the raiding and ending of a scholarship fund that had been set up (long ago) specifically for white men. That’s the entire issue. “Scientific” race is Lucy’s football.
     
    The judge in Chicago is correct. It's ok for a Jew to be anti-gentile, as is the reverse. His money, his rules.

    The judge in Canada is a P.O.S. Sadly typical judicial supremacist behavior. They fancy themselves philosopher kings.

    Yes, but there is that consistency among the rulings. Anything that redounds to the detriment of white people is permissible. That’s pretty much where jurisprudence is headed, along with the rest of the culture. The rest is window dressing.

  113. @Desiderius
    One can never step into the same river twice, but the Amazon still differs - yes, in essence - from the Nile.

    Likewise the hyper-individualism/atomization you advocate turns out to preclude the very accomplishment you cherish. Shoulders of giants.

    If you take the atomisation to its logical conclusion, nobody has a right to be proud of anything, because it leads to the conclusion that there is not actually one unitary soul in each of us, but rather a collection of neurons, each doing its own thing.

    As Daniel Dennet says: “There’s no one home.”

    That’s where reductionism leads in the end.

    Of course reason has its deficiencies.

  114. @Anonymous
    I guess that would explain Bjork.

    Carleton Coon wrote a tome called The Races of Europe dividing Europeans into various races. But even according to Coon's racial typology, I don't think the Vikings were really multiracial. Most if not all of them would have been a part of the Nordic (or whatever precise category Coon had) race.

    Some of the post-Roman raiding barbarian groups could plausibly be called "multiracial". The Scythians in late antiquity, or the Hunnic confederation, which included various Germanics like the Goths, Slavic groups, Huns, etc., come to mind. But I don't think the Vikings could be described as such.

  115. @Buzz Mohawk
    Yes, but where would you draw the line? Are we still the same race that "we" were 500 years ago, when "we" began making the most important progress in human history? Judging by paintings that show phenotypes, and by writings that describe thoughts, we are.

    The social classes of the past few centuries were still part of a very large family. They had similar physical and mental characteristics. They were recognizable as the same race. So, the rich big brothers and sisters had more children and passed on more genes. Or whatever, but they shared so many more with their extended relatives in other cohorts that the family has continued and still has its "essential" characteristics. If it didn't, we would not find our ancestors familiar.

    One reason I choose 500 years ago as significant is because many see that as the time when significant genetic changes had in fact happened in sufficient quantities and of specific types to make modern Europeans different from their predecessors in important ways that led to the modern world. Specifically, execution of violent criminals over time had culled some of the worst elements and made possible a higher trust, more peaceful society, one that could work and organize in a different way. That's when Europe took off.

    Your reply begs the question of when to decide we are significantly different, or how different we have become at any given time. You state the undeniable fact that we change a little bit with each generation. Yes, but by how much, and is that relevant to this discussion? I agree with you that we have gotten dumber rather recently, and that this may be a time of rapid de-evolution for Whites, but I think that up until the shocking now we have shared a racial identity that goes back far enough to count as something. Do you?

    You say there is no essence to our kind or any other, but there are clear differences during periods of history that distinguish one race or people from another. The proof is in the different outcomes during those periods. Your task is to decide when enough members of a set of characteristics have been replaced by enough others, such that the previous set no longer satisfies enough "essential" requirements. This is philisophical hair-splitting. At some point we just say, okay, those people were of a different type.

    You're a physicist, so you understand the concept of a continuum.

    Listen. When I read your post, I almost commented that you were stating the obvious. I have read Reich's book too, and mostly the general evidence of how people mixed was pretty much what I expected. Not who and from where exactly, but just the general fact that it happened, and the rate at which it happened. There is nothing surprising there.

    Do you agree that we are now experiencing a mass migration into our homelands that, if allowed to continue, will hasten the rate of change? And do you agree that this migration is different from the one's Reich discovered, in that it is rapid, is happening for political and ideological reasons, and is facilitated by the mass media and transportation that were, ironically, invented by White men? (Whom you say were not like us!) Do you agree that we could stop it, if only we had the political power?

    Again, what you wrote should have been signed "Captain Obvious," and it doesn't address the point that we share most of the characteristics of our ancestors in the modern era. You don't need to quibble in an almost spergy way about the "obvious" fact that some changes have happened and happen continuously.

    At some point, my ancestors had changed to the point that they were Modern White Men, and they were different from what their ancestors were before. I am still a Modern White Man. Furthermore, such changes don't necessarily happen linearly. Rates of change can change, even in our own evolution.

    In a physical analogy of this temporal subject, it is hard to know on the world map where one race stops and another begins, but we can identify the races, just as we can see where one hill is next to another hill.

    Finally, do you agree that the concept of race is useful and important? That a sense of connection to our ancestors is important? Or, would you rather we just think of ourselves as an amorphous blob soaking in whatever comes along and leaving behind whatever kind of ooze and forgetting about it?

    You might need some clarification to satisfy your mind and preclude you from pretending that I don’t understand the rate of DNA replacement from generation to generation.

    What YOU might call the rate is the sense that with every generation back, we each have twice as many ancestors. By the time you get back ten generations, only half of your ancestors contributed any DNA to you. Sections of DNA drop off rather quickly. This is one of the ways you can say we are not the same kind of people as our ancestors, but that is leaving out the other factor:

    The degree of change, or the significance of it. If all of your ancestors came from the same gene pool, the same extended racial family, you will have inherited things that are more comparable than what would come from another gene pool from a different extended racial family. Those strands would be more different. That is a higher degree of change.

    Put those two things together, one unchanging function and one variable, and you get what I was calling the rate of racial change. What makes it vary is the degree to which your ancestors differed from each other (excluding inbreeding and cousin marriage) and how big and diverse the available genes were at any given time. Again, this is “obvious” in Reich’s book; otherwise he wouldn’t have any reason to discover and map out all the different groups of people who migrated and mixed. Those migrations caused significant changes, while DNA dropped its strands at the same old rate it always does.

    I am simplifying, but you are oversimplifying when you just blanket your whole argument with change for every population at all times as if it is always of the same degree, without specifying how big or different the gene pools are, and how much they are mixing.

  116. Anonymous[148] • Disclaimer says:

    I wonder if mud supremacists like Kim spread their anti-White hatred as a reflex or if it’s learned from other hate orgs like the BBC, ADL, etc? Regardless, like most left wingers she seems to get orgasmic satisfaction from labeling everything she doesn’t like as “white supremacist”. Muds seem to take it as a religious dictum that anything White that they are not involved in is “supremacist” and must be destroyed. Facts be damned, all that matters is being able to claim holiness by accusing your enemy of “white supremacy”. It makes no difference how historically absurd (Vikings were non-White!) or illogical (the fact there there are no genetic markers for non-White populations in Europe proves nothing) the charges are.

    I’m beginning to think all non-Whites are consumed with jealousy toward us and would sell their souls to see us ruined and destroyed. They claim a divine right to go to our countries and tell us how horrible we are, yet they don’t want to leave.

  117. @Xjh
    Don’t Northern Laplander and Scandinavians have somewhat Asiatic Epicanthal folds? Much less distance to Asia at Northern latitudes.

    What about the Icelandic singer Bjork? She looks Asian.

    I always thought that Bjork was a Downs baby

  118. @Anonymous

    So far, however, the most widespread, concerted and effective way to fight back against this historical white supremacist Viking genealogy has come not from academics or journalists.

    Rather, it has come from Taika Waititi, the indigenous Maori director and writer. His movie Thor: Ragnarok — in which Thor’s hammer, a medieval item regularly brandished by extremists, is destroyed — was a multiracial and postcolonial counternarrative to the white Viking narrative circulating through the alt-right digital ecosystem.
     

    His father is Māori of Te Whānau-ā-Apanui and his mother is of Russian Jewish heritage.[7][8] Waititi has used his mother's surname, "Cohen", for some of his work in film and writing.[9]
     

    indigenous Maori … his mother is of Russian Jewish heritage. … has used his mother’s surname, “Cohen”, for some of his work in film and writing.

    As Maori as you, goiyyyyyyyyyyyy!

  119. @PhysicistDave
    Buzz Mohawk wrote to me:

    I kinda like the White people who made the modern world.

    They are basically the same as they were when they started the project half a millennium ago. It would be a shame if they were bastardized, sidelined and reduced to impotency. It would be better if they had some say in who they are and what they want their world to be.
     
    No, they are most certainly not "basically the same as they were when they started the project half a millennium ago."

    It has never been true that all social classes, all levels of intelligence, etc. always had the same number of children: allele frequencies among Europeans have certainly shifted for a plethora of reasons during the last half millennium.

    And, it is still continuing: unfortunately, in recent decades it seems that dumb people have been having more kids than smart people.

    This will alter the average traits of population groups of European origin.

    Obviously.

    Here is a follow-up to my other reply. It was intended for you, but I erroneously posted it as a reply to myself. I am rambling. No doubt you will make me look stupid.

    ————————-

    You might need some clarification to satisfy your mind and preclude you from pretending that I don’t understand the rate of DNA replacement from generation to generation.

    What YOU might call the rate is the sense that with every generation back, we each have twice as many ancestors. By the time you get back ten generations, only half of your ancestors contributed any DNA to you. Sections of DNA drop off rather quickly. This is one of the ways you can say we are not the same kind of people as our ancestors, but that is leaving out the other factor:

    The degree of change, or the significance of it. If all of your ancestors came from the same gene pool, the same extended racial family, you will have inherited things that are more comparable than what would come from another gene pool from a different extended racial family. Those strands would be more different. That is a higher degree of change.

    Put those two things together, one unchanging function and one variable, and you get what I was calling the rate of racial change. What makes it vary is the degree to which your ancestors differed from each other (excluding inbreeding and cousin marriage) and how big and diverse the available genes were at any given time. Again, this is “obvious” in Reich’s book; otherwise he wouldn’t have any reason to discover and map out all the different groups of people who migrated and mixed. Those migrations caused significant changes, while DNA dropped its strands at the same old rate it always does.

    I am simplifying, but you are oversimplifying when you just blanket your whole argument with change for every population at all times as if it is always of the same degree, without specifying how big or different the gene pools are, and how much they are mixing.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    Buzz Mohawk wrote to me:

    I am rambling. No doubt you will make me look stupid.
     
    No: twenty years ago I was in the habit of arguing that our ancestors must have been as smart as we because they had the same genes. I was wrong. All of my genes (or almost all, aside from recent mutations) come from my distant ancestors, but the frequencies have no doubt changed.

    Our ancestors may have been either smarter or dumber than us.

    So... I was not stupid when I failed to understand this, but I have learned something -- quite possibly from following Sailer and Razib Khan. (And, yeah, no doubt there are things I am still wrong on! When I start working on a new, difficult technical problem, I just take for granted that I will initially get it wrong.)

    Buzz also wrote:

    If all of your ancestors came from the same gene pool, the same extended racial family, you will have inherited things that are more comparable than what would come from another gene pool from a different extended racial family. Those strands would be more different. That is a higher degree of change.
     
    Well, possibly: I think it depends. For traits that are almost fixed within an ethnic group (lactose tolerance for Western Europeans, distinctive eye shapes for East Asians), I think what you said is generally correct.

    But, when there is a broad variation within each ethnic group and substantial overlap between the groups, I'm not so sure. I suspect, for example, that dysgenic selection against intelligence may be more rapid among Caucasians than any change in average intelligence that would come from massive hybridization between Caucasians and Chinese. Of course, that is partly because the difference in Chinese and Caucasian intelligence is not really very dramatic.

    Buzz also wrote:

    I am simplifying, but you are oversimplifying when you just blanket your whole argument with change for every population at all times as if it is always of the same degree, without specifying how big or different the gene pools are, and how much they are mixing.
     
    Indeed.

    But, I'd therefore return to my point in my previous post: when it comes to immigrants, I want smart, responsible people who intend to assimilate to and actively advance Western civilization. S. S. Chern, Yo-Yo Ma, C. N. Yang, etc. -- open the gates. But, MS 13, anyone who is likely to go on welfare -- sorry, the inn is full.
  120. @Ed
    When Stephen Girard, one of the wealthiest men in colonial America, died he bequeathed monies to found a school for,"poor, white, male" orphans. The school was founded and admitted such students for 100 years. Then the civil rights era came. There was a battle to desegregate for 14 years after Brown v Board of Ed. although the case itself didn’t desegregate the school. The first black students were admitted in 1968 and girls in the 80s. Evidently the school is 90% black today although judging by the pics it just looks 90% non-white.

    https://www.girardcollege.edu/stephen-girard

    http://northerncity.library.temple.edu/exhibits/show/civil-rights-in-a-northern-cit/collections/desegregation-of-girard-colleg/what-interpretative-essay

    Wow what a story. I searched for more info and found that Girard is now 1% white…

    Girard should have put in a clause that the school was to be liquidated if the rules changed to prevent his will from being carried out faithfully. But hey, at least it lasted for well over 100 years. That’s not bad.

    • Replies: @Ed
    I’m not sure how the school has continued to exist in its current form legally. Maybe it’s like the Rhodes Trust & scholarships that now seem to focus on non-whites which is contrary to the founders wishes. The British government simply took over the program that maybe what happened here too.

    Conversely though Johns Hopkins’s will endowed an orphanage for blacks. It stopped operations in the 20s.
    , @JMcG
    The point is that it doesn’t matter what you put in your will; a judge, usually with the connivance of those who have taken control of whatever assets you have bequeathed, will appropriate those assets as he sees fit.
    See the Barnes Foundation saga, which also played out in the Philadelphia area, as further proof.
    My children will get my money when I die; subject to certain disqualifications. Had I no children, I’d set it on fire before I’d leave a penny to be redistributed on the order of some sc**bag old judge to redress some long standing racial grievance.
  121. @Anon7
    Of course there were black Vikings; here’s the proof:

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=s7kf-nV_E5Y

    Deacon Jones was a great defensive end, and I believe coined the word “sacks” for his favorite on-field activity. And he was a splendid actor, as you can see.

    A howler that I haven’t thought about in 30+ years, thanks.

    My favorite part in that one was the hilltop shot where you could see the oil tanker on the horizon.

    Or the wristwatch on one of the battling vikings. Or the palmettos visible in some of the beach scenes (filmed in Florida). And don’t get me started on the archery anachronisms (blunt modern metal screw-in field points on arrows, crossbows, etc.).

    While we’re on the topic of making stuff up about the North Sea/North Atlantic, I’ve been waiting all my life for someone to make a movie of Farley Mowat’s The Farfarers. I’d show up to the set with my hand tools to be part of the hullmaking team. No, not lapstrake hulls–skin coracles. Kinda fun to build the “longhull” house foundations and navigational pillars (stone) too…. Admittedly I’d like the seafaring parts better than the walrus-hunting parts…….

    Another take on the topic:
    http://www.paabo.ca/uirala/uini-seagoingskinboats.html

    What Paabo misses is the obvious correlation between a lapstrake hull and a seabird’s keel, ribs, and wings (sail). Seems to me that humans living next to the sea would have observed way more floating birds than floating anything else.

    In any event, dimwits who write for MSM today have no clue about anything prior to their undergraduate years. They write for each other.

    • Replies: @Anon7
    “...dimwits who write for MSM today have no clue about anything prior to their undergraduate years. They write for each other.”

    Exactly. They know that everything that happened before their generation was wrong and bad and shameful.

    That’s the beauty of Political Correctness and Cultural Marxism. Once you’ve learned what is PC, you can be an expert in any field without any actual knowledge of that field or its history. That which is Correct replaces those shameful white male European ideas like true and false, experimental verifiability versus superstition, etc.
    , @JMcG
    I really enjoyed that book. It certainly presented a great deal of food for thought. I spent some time hunting caribou up in the low arctic. I’d love to spend some time kicking around up in the high arctic too.
  122. @Desiderius
    Damn.

    See also:

    https://youtu.be/X6s6YKlTpfw

    Quality knows quality.

    They really should do Mahler’s Symphony of a Thousand.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    https://youtu.be/OYl8-yGYALA
  123. @Paleo Liberal
    Sometimes I wonder if a subset of Asians will be the ones to preserve Weatern culture. Already we are seeing plenty of Asian musicians, ranging from pop to classical. The J-pop and K-pop girls are not dumpy. Nor are some of the better known female classical musicians, such as Vanessa Mae and Yuja Wang.

    The first big name in Asian classical musicians was Yo-Yo Ma, who was born in Paris and raised in the US, though. Older gentleman now.

    Baseball is slowly being taken over by Asians as well. The first big name Asian in the Majors was Mets pitcher Ron Darling, an American born half-blooded Asian. Now there are a number of Asians in the majors.

    Sometimes I wonder if a subset of Asians will be the ones to preserve Western culture.

    Your thought is a blackpill because it suggests that no more whites will exist to create new and ongoing Western culture. Also: “Western culture” without Western faces? Bleah. (Derb may disagree 😉 ).

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    As long as there are Amish, as long as there are Mormons, as long as there are rural white farmers in Europe, North America and Australia/ New Zealand there will be white people.

    Maybe those are not the groups to preserve high brow Western culture.

    I am merely recognizing reality. My kids attended/are attending public schools which are about half white in a city (Madison) that used to be one of the whitest cities in the US.

    My kids are mixed, and a little less than half white.

    My biggest question is whether the culture we grew up with will survive the transition.
    Example 1: in the Madison high schools, most white kids participate in some form of organized sports at some point in their high school career. Most non-white kids do not. The cross country team at the local high school is enormous. A couple of hundred white kids plus a handful of non-white kids.

    I worry about the way arts and music programs are being constantly cut to pay for ESL classes.

    I remember one period of a couple of weeks when one of my kids, then a 5th grader, had the ultimate American cultural experience.

    First, she went to a ceremony where she was awarded first prize in a Native American kids’ art contest.
    Then, she had solos in two elementary school strings performances
    To cap it off, she got to sing the Star Spangled Banner with her school choir at opening day for a local minor league baseball team.
    While that was going on, she played a few Little League games.

    Whatever colors my grandchildren or your grandchildren are, I would hate for them to grow up in a world where this was no longer possible.

  124. @PhysicistDave
    gregor wrote:

    It felt like [David Reich] threw that in so he could act like the DNA results are cutting both ways, overturning myths on both sides. Yeah, right.
     
    "Yeah, right", indeed. He did that because there are myths on both sides.

    We are not Erik the Red or Conan the Barbarian.

    We do not deserve credit for the work of Bach or Newton or Hume or Edison.

    We are not the "white race."

    We are each of us individuals, smart or dumb, hard-working or lazy, creative or unimaginative.

    Each of us deserves credit for what he has done or failed ot do, not for the achievements of the "white race."

    Same thing for Jews, Chinese, and any other race.

    It's interesting the spark I ignited here just by pointing out some uncontestedl facts of science and urging people to read David Reich's fascinating book.

    Reich got himself in trouble with the SJWs for pointing out the obvious fact that genes influencing intelligence and behavioral traits are obviously going to differ in frequency among different human populations (races and ethnic groups).

    And, it is clear that the facts he presents are equally unwelcome among those "race realists" who want to think that their "race" today is the same "race" as a thousand years ago or that their "race" differs in some essence from other "races."

    Facts are terrible things.

    We do not deserve credit for the work of Bach or Newton or Hume or Edison.

    Well of course not: You have the arrow of causation backwards. Now if, say, one of Mozart’s white grandparents had mated with a Congo Pygmy, a typical Mozart piece might have been thus (skip to 1:34) :

    Entertaining, to be sure, but not quite the same.

    OTOH, here’s some top notch Austrian rap:

  125. @Buzz Mohawk
    Yes, but where would you draw the line? Are we still the same race that "we" were 500 years ago, when "we" began making the most important progress in human history? Judging by paintings that show phenotypes, and by writings that describe thoughts, we are.

    The social classes of the past few centuries were still part of a very large family. They had similar physical and mental characteristics. They were recognizable as the same race. So, the rich big brothers and sisters had more children and passed on more genes. Or whatever, but they shared so many more with their extended relatives in other cohorts that the family has continued and still has its "essential" characteristics. If it didn't, we would not find our ancestors familiar.

    One reason I choose 500 years ago as significant is because many see that as the time when significant genetic changes had in fact happened in sufficient quantities and of specific types to make modern Europeans different from their predecessors in important ways that led to the modern world. Specifically, execution of violent criminals over time had culled some of the worst elements and made possible a higher trust, more peaceful society, one that could work and organize in a different way. That's when Europe took off.

    Your reply begs the question of when to decide we are significantly different, or how different we have become at any given time. You state the undeniable fact that we change a little bit with each generation. Yes, but by how much, and is that relevant to this discussion? I agree with you that we have gotten dumber rather recently, and that this may be a time of rapid de-evolution for Whites, but I think that up until the shocking now we have shared a racial identity that goes back far enough to count as something. Do you?

    You say there is no essence to our kind or any other, but there are clear differences during periods of history that distinguish one race or people from another. The proof is in the different outcomes during those periods. Your task is to decide when enough members of a set of characteristics have been replaced by enough others, such that the previous set no longer satisfies enough "essential" requirements. This is philisophical hair-splitting. At some point we just say, okay, those people were of a different type.

    You're a physicist, so you understand the concept of a continuum.

    Listen. When I read your post, I almost commented that you were stating the obvious. I have read Reich's book too, and mostly the general evidence of how people mixed was pretty much what I expected. Not who and from where exactly, but just the general fact that it happened, and the rate at which it happened. There is nothing surprising there.

    Do you agree that we are now experiencing a mass migration into our homelands that, if allowed to continue, will hasten the rate of change? And do you agree that this migration is different from the one's Reich discovered, in that it is rapid, is happening for political and ideological reasons, and is facilitated by the mass media and transportation that were, ironically, invented by White men? (Whom you say were not like us!) Do you agree that we could stop it, if only we had the political power?

    Again, what you wrote should have been signed "Captain Obvious," and it doesn't address the point that we share most of the characteristics of our ancestors in the modern era. You don't need to quibble in an almost spergy way about the "obvious" fact that some changes have happened and happen continuously.

    At some point, my ancestors had changed to the point that they were Modern White Men, and they were different from what their ancestors were before. I am still a Modern White Man. Furthermore, such changes don't necessarily happen linearly. Rates of change can change, even in our own evolution.

    In a physical analogy of this temporal subject, it is hard to know on the world map where one race stops and another begins, but we can identify the races, just as we can see where one hill is next to another hill.

    Finally, do you agree that the concept of race is useful and important? That a sense of connection to our ancestors is important? Or, would you rather we just think of ourselves as an amorphous blob soaking in whatever comes along and leaving behind whatever kind of ooze and forgetting about it?

    Buzz Mohawk wrote to me:

    Yes, but where would you draw the line? Are we still the same race that “we” were 500 years ago, when “we” began making the most important progress in human history?

    Well, I’m not actually sure how much you and I disagree.

    Suppose a physician wants to know if there is a good chance that his patient has sickle-cell anemia: knowing that his patient is “black” matters.

    Or, suppose you are traveling in China and you are looking for someone who speaks English: if you see a “white” person, there is a good chance he speaks English (most Europeans traveling abroad speak some English). I.e., “race” can be a very rough and quick (though fallible) indicator of culture.

    But, beyond that very sort of pragmatic, rule-of-thumb situation, I’m not sure why it matters if someone is of the same race as I am. I find it easier to get along with educated, middle-class, responsible Americans of Chinese descent than uneducated, lower-class, irresponsible whites (I’m not referring to working-class whites, whom I generally find to be fine people: I’m referring to the white underclass). I.e., I find that culture trumps race.

    Buzz Mohawk also wrote:

    The social classes of the past few centuries were still part of a very large family. They had similar physical and mental characteristics.

    Well, I am not sure that is true. Perhaps educated, rich whites in 1500 A.D. were more similar in intelligence and in behavioral characteristics to educated, rich Chinese in 1500 A.D. than either group were to members of their own societies’ underclass.

    That seems to be true today, and I suspect it was true in 1500 A.D.

    Of course, I am just pointing out the well-known fact that, for most traits, there is more variation within a population than there is between the averages of different populations.

    I just think we need to take that seriously: don’t assume that there are genetic “white” behavioral traits different than genetic “Chinese” behavioral traits.

    There may of course be differences in the average values of those traits between two different populations, but natural selection can shift those averages with startling rapidity. Going back to Darwin, we see this vividly with how humans have bred different breeds of dogs over surprisingly short time periods.

    It seems to me that cultural differences will often be more important: there is no doubt that there have been very dramatic cultural differences between East Asia and the West, most of which probably have no genetic basis at all.

    Buzz also asked:

    Do you agree that we are now experiencing a mass migration into our homelands that, if allowed to continue, will hasten the rate of change? And do you agree that this migration is different from the one’s Reich discovered, in that it is rapid, is happening for political and ideological reasons, and is facilitated by the mass media and transportation that were, ironically, invented by White men?

    Well, some of the recent work suggests that the Beaker Folk occupation of England may have happened pretty fast, also.

    [MORE]

    In any case, I’d argue that the real problems with large and rapid immigration are threefold:

    First, is America just too full? Opinions can differ, but if we take in millions each year, it will surely become too crowded in almost anyone’s view.

    Second, are we getting smart, responsible people with long time horizons? There are such people in every ethnic group, but our current immigration policy is not selecting for them.

    Finally, are we taking people in in such large numbers that they cannot be successfully assimilated to our culture? We Americans are very, very good at assimilating people, but if the numbers get too large, we will fail.

    Which would be self-defeating from any perspective: foreigners want to come here because of the fruits of our Anglo-European culture — rule of law, personal freedom, political stability, opportunities for entrepreneurs, the highest scientific and technological achievements in the history of the world, and all the rest.

    You know the joke about the little Vietnamese-American girl who says, “When our ancestors came over on the Mayflower…” I know Vietnamese-Americans for whom that point rings completely true. I’m glad they are here.

    A few other immigrants I’ve known, well, not so much.

    So, I care not about race but about personal character and, above all, a willingness to preserve and extend the culture that has made this country great.

    I’m happy to have immigrants of any race who meet those criteria. And white folks who don’t meet those criteria… well, I hear they can live really cheap in Mexico!

    • Replies: @Meretricious
    You are like Bret Stephens and David Brooks, except you use ten times as many words to say the same thing.
  126. @Clyde
    I watched all five Seasons of Vikings and the only multicultural insertion was a very wayward, her ship blown off course, Chinese woman that Ragnor Lothbrook got involved with. Proof enough for me. Though French were involved, Vikings invading them, and we all know that wogs begin east of Calais.

    Contrast this with the idiotic Game of Thrones which was very multi-culti

    “very wayward, her ship blown off course, Chinese woman”

    That’s a long stretch of imagination. The Barbary Corsairs did get as far as Iceland looking for slaves, which was only fair as the Vikings were big slave stealers themselves. Note they were led by a Dutchman who’d “turned Turk”.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Abductions

    “the medieval narratives that activate violent hate”

    They were all about violent hate. Njal’s Saga kicks off when two wives argue over the seating positions at a feast – and it all goes downhill from there.

    “Gunnar’s wife instigates a feud that leads to the death of many characters over several decades including the killing by fire of the eponymous “Burnt Njáll”. The saga deals with this process of blood feuds in the Icelandic Commonwealth, showing how the requirements of honor could lead to minor slights spiralling into destructive and prolonged bloodshed.”

  127. @Buzz Mohawk
    Here is a follow-up to my other reply. It was intended for you, but I erroneously posted it as a reply to myself. I am rambling. No doubt you will make me look stupid.

    -------------------------

    You might need some clarification to satisfy your mind and preclude you from pretending that I don’t understand the rate of DNA replacement from generation to generation.

    What YOU might call the rate is the sense that with every generation back, we each have twice as many ancestors. By the time you get back ten generations, only half of your ancestors contributed any DNA to you. Sections of DNA drop off rather quickly. This is one of the ways you can say we are not the same kind of people as our ancestors, but that is leaving out the other factor:

    The degree of change, or the significance of it. If all of your ancestors came from the same gene pool, the same extended racial family, you will have inherited things that are more comparable than what would come from another gene pool from a different extended racial family. Those strands would be more different. That is a higher degree of change.

    Put those two things together, one unchanging function and one variable, and you get what I was calling the rate of racial change. What makes it vary is the degree to which your ancestors differed from each other (excluding inbreeding and cousin marriage) and how big and diverse the available genes were at any given time. Again, this is “obvious” in Reich’s book; otherwise he wouldn’t have any reason to discover and map out all the different groups of people who migrated and mixed. Those migrations caused significant changes, while DNA dropped its strands at the same old rate it always does.

    I am simplifying, but you are oversimplifying when you just blanket your whole argument with change for every population at all times as if it is always of the same degree, without specifying how big or different the gene pools are, and how much they are mixing.

    Buzz Mohawk wrote to me:

    I am rambling. No doubt you will make me look stupid.

    No: twenty years ago I was in the habit of arguing that our ancestors must have been as smart as we because they had the same genes. I was wrong. All of my genes (or almost all, aside from recent mutations) come from my distant ancestors, but the frequencies have no doubt changed.

    Our ancestors may have been either smarter or dumber than us.

    So… I was not stupid when I failed to understand this, but I have learned something — quite possibly from following Sailer and Razib Khan. (And, yeah, no doubt there are things I am still wrong on! When I start working on a new, difficult technical problem, I just take for granted that I will initially get it wrong.)

    Buzz also wrote:

    If all of your ancestors came from the same gene pool, the same extended racial family, you will have inherited things that are more comparable than what would come from another gene pool from a different extended racial family. Those strands would be more different. That is a higher degree of change.

    Well, possibly: I think it depends. For traits that are almost fixed within an ethnic group (lactose tolerance for Western Europeans, distinctive eye shapes for East Asians), I think what you said is generally correct.

    But, when there is a broad variation within each ethnic group and substantial overlap between the groups, I’m not so sure. I suspect, for example, that dysgenic selection against intelligence may be more rapid among Caucasians than any change in average intelligence that would come from massive hybridization between Caucasians and Chinese. Of course, that is partly because the difference in Chinese and Caucasian intelligence is not really very dramatic.

    Buzz also wrote:

    I am simplifying, but you are oversimplifying when you just blanket your whole argument with change for every population at all times as if it is always of the same degree, without specifying how big or different the gene pools are, and how much they are mixing.

    Indeed.

    But, I’d therefore return to my point in my previous post: when it comes to immigrants, I want smart, responsible people who intend to assimilate to and actively advance Western civilization. S. S. Chern, Yo-Yo Ma, C. N. Yang, etc. — open the gates. But, MS 13, anyone who is likely to go on welfare — sorry, the inn is full.

    • Replies: @Desiderius

    the inn is full
     
    Away in the manger your Lord lies down His sweet head.
  128. @Anonymous
    Did you know Widlar, Pease, or Jim Williams?

    Anonymous[427] asked me:

    Did you know Widlar, Pease, or Jim Williams?

    No, I was a good deal younger, and the “analog” side of the company I worked for specialized in A/D and D/A converters. Real analog engineers would probably say I was too digital, and I’m never quite sure how to describe my work in one or two words to EEs. My own work was, though, focused on the analog aspects of the A/Ds — frequency response, non-linearities, etc.

  129. @Eric Novak
    Björk's haplogroup was subject of discussion two decades ago, after genetic sampling of the Icelandic population. She's Nordic, with the same ancestry as Erik the Red.

    Bjork looks pretty Scandinavian to me. People see the dark complexion and epicanthic fold and think she must be part Asian, but neither trait is all that uncommon in nordic people. It just happened that they were combined in Bjork, and she’s also kind of small, which makes people think Japanese or something. The high cheekbones and little nose are also pretty common in nordics.

    I think Bjork was kind of cute in her heyday, but her eyebrows are a little much for my tastes.

  130. @Anon
    One of these days, people are going to look back and wonder why so many white people were obsessed with not being racist to the point where they saw nothing wrong with destroying their own middle-class living, their own country, and Western Civilization.

    Some of us are already wondering that.

    • Replies: @Joseph Doaks
    It's the influence of women.
  131. @Steve Sailer
    Pretty much every Los Angeles Rams NFL player in the 1960s-1970s got a shot at movie or TV stardom, and several made it: Merlin Olsen and Fred Dreyer, with Bernie Casey becoming a character actor doing lots of teachers as in Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure and police superintendents.

    Bernie Casey was UN Jefferson in Nerds. Nuff said.

  132. The Hamiltoning of History.

  133. @Anon
    The scary thing is that this technique is so effective for the left.

    They plant the seed of whatever they want to meme into reality in some obscure place. Sometimes it is a minor, weakly peer reviewed academic journal.
    Sometimes it is an obscure court case involving people nobody cares about.

    Then someone else makes a similar case and uses that article as a reference or the obscure court case as a legal precedent. The original authors in turn publish/litigate using the new authors as their own support.

    This continues until just a few dozen individuals have managed to establish what appears to be sound legal precedent or "settled science" on the flimsiest of pretexts.

    And they get away with it every single time.

    I remember reading in a "far right" forum about this new movie coming out that was going to turn America's history of its space program upside down. "They" were going to turn an obscure black woman who did the long division that the real scientists didn't have time for into the new Werner vonBraun. It had links to interviews where this woman stated she was proud to be part of the program but never really understood the science behind the equations she was crunching.

    I remember thinking how ridiculous the article was. That could never happen, and besides they had provided links to material refuting the entire premise. Didn't think much of it until a year later my kids were forced to watch "Hidden Figures" in school.

    Now the whole world KNOWS that we only landed on the moon because of the brave black women inventing entirely new fields of mathematics despite the evil white men holding them back and forcing them to walk a half mile to the colored restroom. Search for American mathematicians and Google puts her front and center.

    So many advances the left has made has been using this tactic. It's fun to snark at such a ridiculous premise, but every child in elementary school will KNOW by graduation that the Vikings were a diverse group of whites, blacks and muslims. I mean, why would they let a black man guard Ragnarok if the Vikings weren't black themselves?

    This is a good description of how the Left’s cultural/legal dispossession scam works.

    Part of the reason it works is because the cultural gatekeepers who used to know better no longer do. They used to function as the control rods in the reactor, who would damp down crazy reactions before they went critical. Now they aid the craziness along.

    I know a nice, intelligent lady who directs the public outreach program of natural history (aka, natural science) for a major university. She regards Hidden Figures as more or less a documentary. And she tends to swallow whole whatever other of the latest revised conventional “wisdom” there is.

    Why would she do this? Well, one reason is that though she is an appointed ambassador of science to the public, she has no formal scientific training herself. She studied English literature or French or something in college. She has spent her whole career in academia, and she understands which views are acceptable to the Hierarchs of the Academy and which are not. In the past, her position would have been filled by an actual scientist, perhaps a Watson-type whose scientific-production career was declining, but whose managerial talent remained. Today, actual Watsons are hounded out of the Academy, so nice ladies of shallow understanding but acceptable views can occupy their positions.

    Ownership of the cultural narrative and the censorship power has consequences.

    Many, many consequences.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Nice as a battle axe to the skull.
    , @captflee
    Almost Missouri;

    That's a nice turn of phrase, "nice ladies of shallow understanding but acceptable views".

    Please regard this as my notice of intent to appropriate it, with the stipulation that I shall endeavour to attribute it to you when I use it in future.
    , @The Last Real Calvinist

    I know a nice, intelligent lady who directs the public outreach program of natural history (aka, natural science) for a major university. She regards Hidden Figures as more or less a documentary. And she tends to swallow whole whatever other of the latest revised conventional “wisdom” there is.

     

    I'm re-reading C S Lewis's scifi trilogy. I just read the following paragraph from the third book, That Hideous Strength. One of the evil characters who's trying to take over the UK via 'scientific', sociologically-inspired and administered policies states:

    . . . it's the educated reader who can be gulled. All our difficulty comes with the others. When did you meet a workman who believes the papers? He takes it for granted that they're all propaganda and skips the leading articles . . . . He is our problem. We have to recondition him. But the educated public, the people who read the highbrow weeklies, don't need conditioning. They're all right already. They'll believe anything.

     

    Lewis's prescience was prophetic, in the full sense of the word.
  134. @Steve Sailer
    Pretty much every Los Angeles Rams NFL player in the 1960s-1970s got a shot at movie or TV stardom, and several made it: Merlin Olsen and Fred Dreyer, with Bernie Casey becoming a character actor doing lots of teachers as in Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure and police superintendents.

    I remember Roman Gabriel and Merlin and a couple of others in the Undefeated with John Wayne.

  135. Ms. Kim. In the Middle Ages (and certainly the Dark Ages), most people lived and died in the same cottage and never ventured further afield than 10 miles. To suggest that medieval societies had the same level of heterogeneity as they do today is the PC equivalent of creationists insisting that man co-existed with dinosaurs at Genesis!

    And if your theory is true and the world of 1000AD looked more like the world of 2000 AD than 1500 AD, how come one continent was always heterogeneous and the others were always homogeneous. And what would incentive all the peoples of the world to magically decide to settle backward Europe. What kind of person in Sung Dynasty China or Abbasid Caliphate thinks, “Times are tough here, I think I’ll try my luck with the Vikings!”

  136. Not really a way to separate Viking history from “violent hate” since one would have to explain how these multiracial Vikings prevented any of the nonwhite Vikings from passing on their genes as their descendants show no trace of nonwhite admixture.

  137. “What about the Icelandic singer Bjork? She looks Asian.”

    Inuit look? Not far from Reykjavik to Greenland.

  138. @ben tillman
    Many or most of the Hispanics are black. The 6.7% figure is way too low.

    Hey, if you were a rich ball player wouldn’t you quit being black too?

    But radio is the only way to properly enjoy a game if you aren’t in the park in person.

  139. @Almost Missouri
    Some of us are already wondering that.

    It’s the influence of women.

  140. @Bill P
    Wow what a story. I searched for more info and found that Girard is now 1% white...

    Girard should have put in a clause that the school was to be liquidated if the rules changed to prevent his will from being carried out faithfully. But hey, at least it lasted for well over 100 years. That's not bad.

    I’m not sure how the school has continued to exist in its current form legally. Maybe it’s like the Rhodes Trust & scholarships that now seem to focus on non-whites which is contrary to the founders wishes. The British government simply took over the program that maybe what happened here too.

    Conversely though Johns Hopkins’s will endowed an orphanage for blacks. It stopped operations in the 20s.

  141. @Clyde
    I watched all five Seasons of Vikings and the only multicultural insertion was a very wayward, her ship blown off course, Chinese woman that Ragnor Lothbrook got involved with. Proof enough for me. Though French were involved, Vikings invading them, and we all know that wogs begin east of Calais.

    Contrast this with the idiotic Game of Thrones which was very multi-culti

    “Contrast this with the idiotic Game of Thrones which was very multi-culti”

    GoT doesn’t strike me as very multi-culti. Its a fantasy version of Europe and North Africa (and maybe a slice of Central Asia), set anytime from the Roman Era to the Dark Ages. It does have blacks and Mongols, but it’s mostly white. All the various racial groups live in exactly the places you would expect them to live. The various kingdoms are mostly monoracial. Sure there are multiple cultures, but they all live separately, exactly as you would epect.

    Let’s give some credit to the producers of quality fantasy like LOTR, GoT, etc. They have avoided the obnoxious pressure to make ancient societies look like Benetton ads.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    Only an idiot or history professor would mistake Tolkien's Haradrim and their "oliphaunts" as something other than Carthaginians.
  142. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    And everybody knows that Hollywood’s telling of historical films is 100% accurate. If you can’t trust Tinseltown to get the basic facts right, then who can you trust?

    History Channel?

  143. @PhysicistDave
    Yojimbo/Zatoichi wrote to me:

    But natural selection would only occur within a specific isolated group. If there were no people of color/East Asian/Australasian/etc in Europe say, 50,000 years ago, then the DNA remains constant, and Europe would only contain Caucasian DNA during these 50 millennia.
    Duh.
     
    No, that's just wrong. If there are different alleles present within the population, there will be natural selection.

    And, mutations happen, which continue to produce different alleles on an ongoing basis.

    YZ also wrote:


    [Dave]“whatever the average IQ difference between Ashkenazi Jews and, let’s say, ǃKung San bushmen today may be, that difference might have been very different a couple thousand years ago. “

    [YZ]Uh yes, it might’ve been even worse. But this is subjective speculation a la “could be, should be, who knows” exactly. And science deals with what is, what is known at present, and facts.
     

    Wrong again. Mathematically, it is almost impossible that natural selection would not have made changes during those two millennia.

    Stuff happens.

    YZ also wrote:


    Suppose The Ming dynasty was largely comprised of sub Saharan African bushman but it was covered up for over a thousand years? Suppose Caucasians we’re living in Antarctica 5,000 years ago?
     
    Nothing to do with what I was talking about.

    Genetically, the Chinese of today are just not the Chinese of the Ming dynasty: just not possible. Allele frequencies change. Mutations happen.

    Ming dynasty Chinese are of course closer genetically to contemporary Chinese than to contemporary !Kung San. But, go back far enough and that is not true. Obviously, Cinese of today are closer to !Kung San of today than they are to Peking Man.

    Genes within a population change over time. There is no "essence" to races.

    What is the relevant time scale? It depends -- read Reich's book. I'd say offhand ten to twenty thousand years, based on his book. But it can vary widely.

    And, all modern races are the result of past hybridization events, repeated again and again. Again, read Reich. Timescale? Depends on what people do -- conquest, voluntary intermarriage, etc.

    Again, read Reich's book: the evidence on this is certain and conclusive -- close to being as conclusive as the heliocentric theory vs. Ptolemy.

    The detailed data we now possess on all this is really quite fascinating. Read Reich.

    History Channel?

  144. @PhysicistDave
    Yojimbo/Zatoichi wrote to me:

    But natural selection would only occur within a specific isolated group. If there were no people of color/East Asian/Australasian/etc in Europe say, 50,000 years ago, then the DNA remains constant, and Europe would only contain Caucasian DNA during these 50 millennia.
    Duh.
     
    No, that's just wrong. If there are different alleles present within the population, there will be natural selection.

    And, mutations happen, which continue to produce different alleles on an ongoing basis.

    YZ also wrote:


    [Dave]“whatever the average IQ difference between Ashkenazi Jews and, let’s say, ǃKung San bushmen today may be, that difference might have been very different a couple thousand years ago. “

    [YZ]Uh yes, it might’ve been even worse. But this is subjective speculation a la “could be, should be, who knows” exactly. And science deals with what is, what is known at present, and facts.
     

    Wrong again. Mathematically, it is almost impossible that natural selection would not have made changes during those two millennia.

    Stuff happens.

    YZ also wrote:


    Suppose The Ming dynasty was largely comprised of sub Saharan African bushman but it was covered up for over a thousand years? Suppose Caucasians we’re living in Antarctica 5,000 years ago?
     
    Nothing to do with what I was talking about.

    Genetically, the Chinese of today are just not the Chinese of the Ming dynasty: just not possible. Allele frequencies change. Mutations happen.

    Ming dynasty Chinese are of course closer genetically to contemporary Chinese than to contemporary !Kung San. But, go back far enough and that is not true. Obviously, Cinese of today are closer to !Kung San of today than they are to Peking Man.

    Genes within a population change over time. There is no "essence" to races.

    What is the relevant time scale? It depends -- read Reich's book. I'd say offhand ten to twenty thousand years, based on his book. But it can vary widely.

    And, all modern races are the result of past hybridization events, repeated again and again. Again, read Reich. Timescale? Depends on what people do -- conquest, voluntary intermarriage, etc.

    Again, read Reich's book: the evidence on this is certain and conclusive -- close to being as conclusive as the heliocentric theory vs. Ptolemy.

    The detailed data we now possess on all this is really quite fascinating. Read Reich.

    “There is no “essence” to races.”

    Nor species either, if you go back far enough. So what?

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    Joseph Doaks wrote to me:

    [Dave]“There is no “essence” to races.”

    [JD]Nor species either, if you go back far enough. So what?
     
    You're right, of course, and this is a major point of Darwinism.

    But, I think there is a very significant difference between species vs. human races:

    There is a huge overlap in intelligence, personality traits, etc. among different human races. It therefore makes sense to try to judge people as individuals. I.e., if you want to know some guy's IQ, you can learn a lot more by simply giving him an IQ test than by just noting whether he is white, black, East Asian, or whatever.

    There are some closely related species for which the same is true.

    But not, as it happens, with humans vs. other primate species.

    I.e., there is pretty much no overlap in intelligence between chimps and Homo sapiens in intelligence.

    Concretely, I have known some extremely bright black people, Hispanic people, East Asian people, as well as white people in various STEM subjects.

    I have yet to meet a chimp who is really good at STEM subjects.
  145. @PhysicistDave
    Buzz Mohawk wrote to me:

    I am rambling. No doubt you will make me look stupid.
     
    No: twenty years ago I was in the habit of arguing that our ancestors must have been as smart as we because they had the same genes. I was wrong. All of my genes (or almost all, aside from recent mutations) come from my distant ancestors, but the frequencies have no doubt changed.

    Our ancestors may have been either smarter or dumber than us.

    So... I was not stupid when I failed to understand this, but I have learned something -- quite possibly from following Sailer and Razib Khan. (And, yeah, no doubt there are things I am still wrong on! When I start working on a new, difficult technical problem, I just take for granted that I will initially get it wrong.)

    Buzz also wrote:

    If all of your ancestors came from the same gene pool, the same extended racial family, you will have inherited things that are more comparable than what would come from another gene pool from a different extended racial family. Those strands would be more different. That is a higher degree of change.
     
    Well, possibly: I think it depends. For traits that are almost fixed within an ethnic group (lactose tolerance for Western Europeans, distinctive eye shapes for East Asians), I think what you said is generally correct.

    But, when there is a broad variation within each ethnic group and substantial overlap between the groups, I'm not so sure. I suspect, for example, that dysgenic selection against intelligence may be more rapid among Caucasians than any change in average intelligence that would come from massive hybridization between Caucasians and Chinese. Of course, that is partly because the difference in Chinese and Caucasian intelligence is not really very dramatic.

    Buzz also wrote:

    I am simplifying, but you are oversimplifying when you just blanket your whole argument with change for every population at all times as if it is always of the same degree, without specifying how big or different the gene pools are, and how much they are mixing.
     
    Indeed.

    But, I'd therefore return to my point in my previous post: when it comes to immigrants, I want smart, responsible people who intend to assimilate to and actively advance Western civilization. S. S. Chern, Yo-Yo Ma, C. N. Yang, etc. -- open the gates. But, MS 13, anyone who is likely to go on welfare -- sorry, the inn is full.

    the inn is full

    Away in the manger your Lord lies down His sweet head.

  146. @J.Ross
    A judge in Chicago upheld the right of a Jew to exclude his children from his will if they married goyim; a judge in Canada permitted the raiding and ending of a scholarship fund that had been set up (long ago) specifically for white men. That's the entire issue. "Scientific" race is Lucy's football.

    One ruling is correct and the other is wrong. The fundamental purpose of a “will” is to carry out the will (wishes) of the donor. If I want to give my money to some of my kids but not others, that’s my business – it’s my money, I can give it to whoever I want. If I want to give it to set up a fund for scholarships to blacks or Armenians or children of bus drivers or whatever, that’s my business too. In the case of the latter, you have to be careful to make sure that it’s administered by a private foundation and not run by the government – once you give your money to the government, they can’t discriminate with it.

  147. our census forms will need to add another ethnic category , need to include a Viking category for the mixed race Viking people for immigrants from Denmark and Iceland.

  148. @Almost Missouri
    This is a good description of how the Left's cultural/legal dispossession scam works.

    Part of the reason it works is because the cultural gatekeepers who used to know better no longer do. They used to function as the control rods in the reactor, who would damp down crazy reactions before they went critical. Now they aid the craziness along.

    I know a nice, intelligent lady who directs the public outreach program of natural history (aka, natural science) for a major university. She regards Hidden Figures as more or less a documentary. And she tends to swallow whole whatever other of the latest revised conventional "wisdom" there is.

    Why would she do this? Well, one reason is that though she is an appointed ambassador of science to the public, she has no formal scientific training herself. She studied English literature or French or something in college. She has spent her whole career in academia, and she understands which views are acceptable to the Hierarchs of the Academy and which are not. In the past, her position would have been filled by an actual scientist, perhaps a Watson-type whose scientific-production career was declining, but whose managerial talent remained. Today, actual Watsons are hounded out of the Academy, so nice ladies of shallow understanding but acceptable views can occupy their positions.

    Ownership of the cultural narrative and the censorship power has consequences.

    Many, many consequences.

    Nice as a battle axe to the skull.

  149. Kim should worry about her own nation’s multiracial legacy in the wake of the Korean War when her fellow countrywomen offered themselves up en masse as comfort women to black American GIs.

  150. I read the Time story hoping that the “historian” would present actual historical evidence that Vikings were not all white but it was nothing of the kind. It was just a fact free ideological polemic. Evil right wing racists have latched onto the Vikings as their white heroes, so therefore they must be wrong. Evil people can never be right. Therefore, the job of the historian is to show that they are wrong. Racist historians have distorted the past to create an image of all white Vikings, so woke historians have to provide their own distorted counter narrative – it’s not only fair but necessary that they provide a distorted version of the past to act as a corrective to the narrative of the evil racists and discredit their evil movement.

    The idea of a “historian” as some sort of objective interpreter of the past is completely lost. In a sense this is a return to an earlier understanding of “history” as something written to serve an agenda. The Roman histories that have come down to us (e.g. that Nero fiddled while Rome burned) were written by his enemies to discredit his rule. This kind of “history” doesn’t require any factual evidence. You are free to seize upon any molehill of evidence and inflate it into a mountain. (We see this now with the “Trump is senile” narrative.) The important thing is to support your agenda – you are free to make up or distort facts as necessary.

    • Agree: GermanReader2
  151. @Bill P
    I don't know about multiracial, but the pre-Viking nordic people aligned themselves with the Huns against the Roman empire. The Huns were apparently Siberians, and there's a lot of fairly recent Siberian ancestry in Finns and Balts (N1c -- originally from Manchuria). Rurik was N1c, which means he was at least part Siberian, and he was considered a Viking of sorts (Varangian).

    So not really multiracial, but there were some non-European elements in at least some of the early Vikings.

    But I don't think this is what Kim means.

    N1c shows up in 3500 years old remains in Finland/Scandinavia/nearby Russia. Calling that “fairly recent” Siberian ancestry is a bit misleading. Matching N1c doesn’t mean that Rurik was in any meaningful sense “part Siberian”, it just means that his great-great-great-etc-grandfather from 2500 years before had carried the N1c marker.

    N1c probably wasn’t even brought into the Baltic Sea / Scandinavia area by “Siberian” or fully Asian phenotype people, N1c existed in the European part of Russia for much longer and the N1c carrying people who migranted further West to the Baltic Sea were very likely northern European / Asian mixes like Finns are.

    N1c also doesn’t seem to be Siberian in origin, the oldest N1c is found on the steppe or near it in Manchuria and it’s newer in Siberia. N1c is only found in those Siberian peoples like Yakuts etc who were already thought to have migrated from the south during historical times. It is not found among paleo-Siberians.

    A big part of this confusion is that academics refuse to say “Mongoloid” so they use various euphemisms and they often replace it with something like “Siberian”. So even though there’s no actual evidence that N1c even traveled to northern Europe through Siberia, you have these academics who keep talking about “Siberian ancestry” since they don’t want to say “Mongoloid ancestry”.

    N1c could have come through the Central Asian steppe from present day China and landed in the steppe/forest boundary near the Volga river in Europe which is where the Finno-Ugric homeland is presumed to be by linguistic evidence. Then it would have spread from there to the Baltic Sea and Western Siberia, making a perfect match with linguistics.

  152. @Olorin
    A howler that I haven't thought about in 30+ years, thanks.

    My favorite part in that one was the hilltop shot where you could see the oil tanker on the horizon.

    Or the wristwatch on one of the battling vikings. Or the palmettos visible in some of the beach scenes (filmed in Florida). And don't get me started on the archery anachronisms (blunt modern metal screw-in field points on arrows, crossbows, etc.).

    While we're on the topic of making stuff up about the North Sea/North Atlantic, I've been waiting all my life for someone to make a movie of Farley Mowat's The Farfarers. I'd show up to the set with my hand tools to be part of the hullmaking team. No, not lapstrake hulls--skin coracles. Kinda fun to build the "longhull" house foundations and navigational pillars (stone) too.... Admittedly I'd like the seafaring parts better than the walrus-hunting parts.......

    Another take on the topic:
    http://www.paabo.ca/uirala/uini-seagoingskinboats.html

    What Paabo misses is the obvious correlation between a lapstrake hull and a seabird's keel, ribs, and wings (sail). Seems to me that humans living next to the sea would have observed way more floating birds than floating anything else.

    In any event, dimwits who write for MSM today have no clue about anything prior to their undergraduate years. They write for each other.

    “…dimwits who write for MSM today have no clue about anything prior to their undergraduate years. They write for each other.”

    Exactly. They know that everything that happened before their generation was wrong and bad and shameful.

    That’s the beauty of Political Correctness and Cultural Marxism. Once you’ve learned what is PC, you can be an expert in any field without any actual knowledge of that field or its history. That which is Correct replaces those shameful white male European ideas like true and false, experimental verifiability versus superstition, etc.

  153. @John Derbyshire
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbUnNbq2-dM

    Well, it took bands like the Beatles to popularize Chuck Berry in your native England.

    Why not singers like her to popularize Western Classical Music in Asia?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    It took bands like the Beatles, Rolling Stones, et al to spread black American music with a white twist to white Americans. Old black bluesmen were of no interest to anyone, black or white, in the US until English blues and pop groups made it "okay" for whites in the US to like it. English had little experience with blacks firsthand so accepted the actual black music as it was.
  154. @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Sometimes I wonder if a subset of Asians will be the ones to preserve Western culture.
     
    Your thought is a blackpill because it suggests that no more whites will exist to create new and ongoing Western culture. Also: “Western culture” without Western faces? Bleah. (Derb may disagree ;) ).

    As long as there are Amish, as long as there are Mormons, as long as there are rural white farmers in Europe, North America and Australia/ New Zealand there will be white people.

    Maybe those are not the groups to preserve high brow Western culture.

    I am merely recognizing reality. My kids attended/are attending public schools which are about half white in a city (Madison) that used to be one of the whitest cities in the US.

    My kids are mixed, and a little less than half white.

    My biggest question is whether the culture we grew up with will survive the transition.
    Example 1: in the Madison high schools, most white kids participate in some form of organized sports at some point in their high school career. Most non-white kids do not. The cross country team at the local high school is enormous. A couple of hundred white kids plus a handful of non-white kids.

    I worry about the way arts and music programs are being constantly cut to pay for ESL classes.

    I remember one period of a couple of weeks when one of my kids, then a 5th grader, had the ultimate American cultural experience.

    First, she went to a ceremony where she was awarded first prize in a Native American kids’ art contest.
    Then, she had solos in two elementary school strings performances
    To cap it off, she got to sing the Star Spangled Banner with her school choir at opening day for a local minor league baseball team.
    While that was going on, she played a few Little League games.

    Whatever colors my grandchildren or your grandchildren are, I would hate for them to grow up in a world where this was no longer possible.

    • Replies: @Meretricious

    Whatever colors my grandchildren or your grandchildren are, I would hate for them to grow up in a world where this was no longer possible.
     
    Your grandchildren will be negroes, and that's precisely the world they will grow up in. It will be like a somewhat advanced African country.
    , @PhysicistDave
    Paleo Liberal wrote:

    My biggest question is whether the culture we grew up with will survive the transition.
     
    You've nailed the key point. It would be nice if three hundred years from now we still have the World Series, Cracker Jacks, and the other things we remember from oour childhood.

    But it really, really matters if we retain the rule of law, free markets, Western science and technology, and a host of other achievements from the last five hundred years of Western history.

    The good news, as you say, is that people who do not have white skins can adopt and advance these cultural achievements.

    The bad news is that some of the greatest enemies of Western civilization are powerful white people here in the West.

    Basically, Western civilization cannot die unless the whole world descends into a deep Dark Age: without Western science and technology, the world cannot sustain anything like the current population. But, it is possible for Westenr civilization to be maintained largely in East Asia while the West itself declines.
  155. @Almost Missouri
    This is a good description of how the Left's cultural/legal dispossession scam works.

    Part of the reason it works is because the cultural gatekeepers who used to know better no longer do. They used to function as the control rods in the reactor, who would damp down crazy reactions before they went critical. Now they aid the craziness along.

    I know a nice, intelligent lady who directs the public outreach program of natural history (aka, natural science) for a major university. She regards Hidden Figures as more or less a documentary. And she tends to swallow whole whatever other of the latest revised conventional "wisdom" there is.

    Why would she do this? Well, one reason is that though she is an appointed ambassador of science to the public, she has no formal scientific training herself. She studied English literature or French or something in college. She has spent her whole career in academia, and she understands which views are acceptable to the Hierarchs of the Academy and which are not. In the past, her position would have been filled by an actual scientist, perhaps a Watson-type whose scientific-production career was declining, but whose managerial talent remained. Today, actual Watsons are hounded out of the Academy, so nice ladies of shallow understanding but acceptable views can occupy their positions.

    Ownership of the cultural narrative and the censorship power has consequences.

    Many, many consequences.

    Almost Missouri;

    That’s a nice turn of phrase, “nice ladies of shallow understanding but acceptable views”.

    Please regard this as my notice of intent to appropriate it, with the stipulation that I shall endeavour to attribute it to you when I use it in future.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    No stipulation needed.
  156. @Mr McKenna
    They're so fortunate to have their own countries. Methinks it's part of the reason they can pay such good respect to the great works of western civ. Hence, perhaps, why we can't.

    We can, and do. Classical music performance is thriving around here. I met my wife in a highly accomplished choir.

    Conservatives (sic) are too busy bitching on the internet to notice.

  157. @PhysicistDave
    Buzz Mohawk wrote to me:

    Yes, but where would you draw the line? Are we still the same race that “we” were 500 years ago, when “we” began making the most important progress in human history?
     
    Well, I'm not actually sure how much you and I disagree.

    Suppose a physician wants to know if there is a good chance that his patient has sickle-cell anemia: knowing that his patient is "black" matters.

    Or, suppose you are traveling in China and you are looking for someone who speaks English: if you see a "white" person, there is a good chance he speaks English (most Europeans traveling abroad speak some English). I.e., "race" can be a very rough and quick (though fallible) indicator of culture.

    But, beyond that very sort of pragmatic, rule-of-thumb situation, I'm not sure why it matters if someone is of the same race as I am. I find it easier to get along with educated, middle-class, responsible Americans of Chinese descent than uneducated, lower-class, irresponsible whites (I'm not referring to working-class whites, whom I generally find to be fine people: I'm referring to the white underclass). I.e., I find that culture trumps race.

    Buzz Mohawk also wrote:

    The social classes of the past few centuries were still part of a very large family. They had similar physical and mental characteristics.
     
    Well, I am not sure that is true. Perhaps educated, rich whites in 1500 A.D. were more similar in intelligence and in behavioral characteristics to educated, rich Chinese in 1500 A.D. than either group were to members of their own societies' underclass.

    That seems to be true today, and I suspect it was true in 1500 A.D.

    Of course, I am just pointing out the well-known fact that, for most traits, there is more variation within a population than there is between the averages of different populations.

    I just think we need to take that seriously: don't assume that there are genetic "white" behavioral traits different than genetic "Chinese" behavioral traits.

    There may of course be differences in the average values of those traits between two different populations, but natural selection can shift those averages with startling rapidity. Going back to Darwin, we see this vividly with how humans have bred different breeds of dogs over surprisingly short time periods.

    It seems to me that cultural differences will often be more important: there is no doubt that there have been very dramatic cultural differences between East Asia and the West, most of which probably have no genetic basis at all.

    Buzz also asked:

    Do you agree that we are now experiencing a mass migration into our homelands that, if allowed to continue, will hasten the rate of change? And do you agree that this migration is different from the one’s Reich discovered, in that it is rapid, is happening for political and ideological reasons, and is facilitated by the mass media and transportation that were, ironically, invented by White men?
     
    Well, some of the recent work suggests that the Beaker Folk occupation of England may have happened pretty fast, also.

    In any case, I'd argue that the real problems with large and rapid immigration are threefold:

    First, is America just too full? Opinions can differ, but if we take in millions each year, it will surely become too crowded in almost anyone's view.

    Second, are we getting smart, responsible people with long time horizons? There are such people in every ethnic group, but our current immigration policy is not selecting for them.

    Finally, are we taking people in in such large numbers that they cannot be successfully assimilated to our culture? We Americans are very, very good at assimilating people, but if the numbers get too large, we will fail.

    Which would be self-defeating from any perspective: foreigners want to come here because of the fruits of our Anglo-European culture -- rule of law, personal freedom, political stability, opportunities for entrepreneurs, the highest scientific and technological achievements in the history of the world, and all the rest.

    You know the joke about the little Vietnamese-American girl who says, "When our ancestors came over on the Mayflower..." I know Vietnamese-Americans for whom that point rings completely true. I'm glad they are here.

    A few other immigrants I've known, well, not so much.

    So, I care not about race but about personal character and, above all, a willingness to preserve and extend the culture that has made this country great.

    I'm happy to have immigrants of any race who meet those criteria. And white folks who don't meet those criteria... well, I hear they can live really cheap in Mexico!

    You are like Bret Stephens and David Brooks, except you use ten times as many words to say the same thing.

  158. @Paleo Liberal
    As long as there are Amish, as long as there are Mormons, as long as there are rural white farmers in Europe, North America and Australia/ New Zealand there will be white people.

    Maybe those are not the groups to preserve high brow Western culture.

    I am merely recognizing reality. My kids attended/are attending public schools which are about half white in a city (Madison) that used to be one of the whitest cities in the US.

    My kids are mixed, and a little less than half white.

    My biggest question is whether the culture we grew up with will survive the transition.
    Example 1: in the Madison high schools, most white kids participate in some form of organized sports at some point in their high school career. Most non-white kids do not. The cross country team at the local high school is enormous. A couple of hundred white kids plus a handful of non-white kids.

    I worry about the way arts and music programs are being constantly cut to pay for ESL classes.

    I remember one period of a couple of weeks when one of my kids, then a 5th grader, had the ultimate American cultural experience.

    First, she went to a ceremony where she was awarded first prize in a Native American kids’ art contest.
    Then, she had solos in two elementary school strings performances
    To cap it off, she got to sing the Star Spangled Banner with her school choir at opening day for a local minor league baseball team.
    While that was going on, she played a few Little League games.

    Whatever colors my grandchildren or your grandchildren are, I would hate for them to grow up in a world where this was no longer possible.

    Whatever colors my grandchildren or your grandchildren are, I would hate for them to grow up in a world where this was no longer possible.

    Your grandchildren will be negroes, and that’s precisely the world they will grow up in. It will be like a somewhat advanced African country.

  159. @Anonymous

    So far, however, the most widespread, concerted and effective way to fight back against this historical white supremacist Viking genealogy has come not from academics or journalists.

    Rather, it has come from Taika Waititi, the indigenous Maori director and writer. His movie Thor: Ragnarok — in which Thor’s hammer, a medieval item regularly brandished by extremists, is destroyed — was a multiracial and postcolonial counternarrative to the white Viking narrative circulating through the alt-right digital ecosystem.
     

    His father is Māori of Te Whānau-ā-Apanui and his mother is of Russian Jewish heritage.[7][8] Waititi has used his mother's surname, "Cohen", for some of his work in film and writing.[9]
     

    Not good for the Jews.

    Y’all need to get this shit smelling less Weimarish pronto.

  160. @Wilkey
    "Contrast this with the idiotic Game of Thrones which was very multi-culti"

    GoT doesn't strike me as very multi-culti. Its a fantasy version of Europe and North Africa (and maybe a slice of Central Asia), set anytime from the Roman Era to the Dark Ages. It does have blacks and Mongols, but it's mostly white. All the various racial groups live in exactly the places you would expect them to live. The various kingdoms are mostly monoracial. Sure there are multiple cultures, but they all live separately, exactly as you would epect.

    Let's give some credit to the producers of quality fantasy like LOTR, GoT, etc. They have avoided the obnoxious pressure to make ancient societies look like Benetton ads.

    Only an idiot or history professor would mistake Tolkien’s Haradrim and their “oliphaunts” as something other than Carthaginians.

  161. @Bill P
    Wow what a story. I searched for more info and found that Girard is now 1% white...

    Girard should have put in a clause that the school was to be liquidated if the rules changed to prevent his will from being carried out faithfully. But hey, at least it lasted for well over 100 years. That's not bad.

    The point is that it doesn’t matter what you put in your will; a judge, usually with the connivance of those who have taken control of whatever assets you have bequeathed, will appropriate those assets as he sees fit.
    See the Barnes Foundation saga, which also played out in the Philadelphia area, as further proof.
    My children will get my money when I die; subject to certain disqualifications. Had I no children, I’d set it on fire before I’d leave a penny to be redistributed on the order of some sc**bag old judge to redress some long standing racial grievance.

    • Replies: @Olorin
    The question of dissidents' legacies has not yet hit with a smash...but there are already ample examples of leftist or antiwhite judges, lawyers, and AGs overturning or infinitely delaying distribution of wills based on their beneficiaries' lack of acceptability to these judicial activists. You can look that up.

    The SPLC has a track record of such interference. Including a case in Canada no less.
  162. @Olorin
    A howler that I haven't thought about in 30+ years, thanks.

    My favorite part in that one was the hilltop shot where you could see the oil tanker on the horizon.

    Or the wristwatch on one of the battling vikings. Or the palmettos visible in some of the beach scenes (filmed in Florida). And don't get me started on the archery anachronisms (blunt modern metal screw-in field points on arrows, crossbows, etc.).

    While we're on the topic of making stuff up about the North Sea/North Atlantic, I've been waiting all my life for someone to make a movie of Farley Mowat's The Farfarers. I'd show up to the set with my hand tools to be part of the hullmaking team. No, not lapstrake hulls--skin coracles. Kinda fun to build the "longhull" house foundations and navigational pillars (stone) too.... Admittedly I'd like the seafaring parts better than the walrus-hunting parts.......

    Another take on the topic:
    http://www.paabo.ca/uirala/uini-seagoingskinboats.html

    What Paabo misses is the obvious correlation between a lapstrake hull and a seabird's keel, ribs, and wings (sail). Seems to me that humans living next to the sea would have observed way more floating birds than floating anything else.

    In any event, dimwits who write for MSM today have no clue about anything prior to their undergraduate years. They write for each other.

    I really enjoyed that book. It certainly presented a great deal of food for thought. I spent some time hunting caribou up in the low arctic. I’d love to spend some time kicking around up in the high arctic too.

  163. @Desiderius
    The only appropriation going on here is a talentless SJW appropriating the reputation of the great Luce family and the decades of quality publications it produced.

    What’s happened to Time magazine? It’s obviously just a shadow of what it once was. But going full SJW can’t be the best thing to do with whats left of the name.

    SJW click bait is the most overcrowded space of all. There is an endless supply of free articles about “why x is problematic.”

    But at this point, I get the feeling none of these properties are run for profit, but just for cultural propaganda.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    SJWism, like any other fad, started at the high end and then slowly made its way through the population distribution. It’s now in the fat middle where what’s left of the mass market is, so residual mass market products and services inevitably tilt toward the SJW these days. That’s why black moms and white single women (especially the ones with penises) are so into it.

    This too shall pass.

    , @Olorin
    They are brands and data mining operations.
  164. @Hypnotoad666
    What's happened to Time magazine? It's obviously just a shadow of what it once was. But going full SJW can't be the best thing to do with whats left of the name.

    SJW click bait is the most overcrowded space of all. There is an endless supply of free articles about "why x is problematic."

    But at this point, I get the feeling none of these properties are run for profit, but just for cultural propaganda.

    SJWism, like any other fad, started at the high end and then slowly made its way through the population distribution. It’s now in the fat middle where what’s left of the mass market is, so residual mass market products and services inevitably tilt toward the SJW these days. That’s why black moms and white single women (especially the ones with penises) are so into it.

    This too shall pass.

    • Agree: PhysicistDave
  165. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    It is what it is. Rammstein are known for double meanings and paradoxical juxtapositions in their lyrics and visuals. Deutschland the video is simultaneously glorious and rousing, brutal and disgusting and even campy in parts. It is both a condemnation and celebration of the more dramatic aspects of a particular Volksgeist—at once demonic and divine, ruthless and repentant. So in it there’s really something for everyone.

    Deutschland the video is simultaneously glorious and rousing, brutal and disgusting and even campy in parts. It is both a condemnation and celebration…

    I agree, the basic theme is ambivalence toward Germany, which is what makes it even more odd that it’s being seen as some sort of resounding declaration of nationalism. I’m guessing it’s a combination of 1) Non-German speakers catching an occasional phrase like “Deutschland ueber alln” and jumping to conclusions, and 2) Germans getting uptight – yet again – over the band’s playing with fascist aesthetics.

    Then again, maybe “Germania as a black woman” really is a Based commentary on current demographic trends…

  166. @JMcG
    The point is that it doesn’t matter what you put in your will; a judge, usually with the connivance of those who have taken control of whatever assets you have bequeathed, will appropriate those assets as he sees fit.
    See the Barnes Foundation saga, which also played out in the Philadelphia area, as further proof.
    My children will get my money when I die; subject to certain disqualifications. Had I no children, I’d set it on fire before I’d leave a penny to be redistributed on the order of some sc**bag old judge to redress some long standing racial grievance.

    The question of dissidents’ legacies has not yet hit with a smash…but there are already ample examples of leftist or antiwhite judges, lawyers, and AGs overturning or infinitely delaying distribution of wills based on their beneficiaries’ lack of acceptability to these judicial activists. You can look that up.

    The SPLC has a track record of such interference. Including a case in Canada no less.

  167. @Hypnotoad666
    What's happened to Time magazine? It's obviously just a shadow of what it once was. But going full SJW can't be the best thing to do with whats left of the name.

    SJW click bait is the most overcrowded space of all. There is an endless supply of free articles about "why x is problematic."

    But at this point, I get the feeling none of these properties are run for profit, but just for cultural propaganda.

    They are brands and data mining operations.

  168. @captflee
    Almost Missouri;

    That's a nice turn of phrase, "nice ladies of shallow understanding but acceptable views".

    Please regard this as my notice of intent to appropriate it, with the stipulation that I shall endeavour to attribute it to you when I use it in future.

    No stipulation needed.

  169. @Joseph Doaks
    "There is no “essence” to races."

    Nor species either, if you go back far enough. So what?

    Joseph Doaks wrote to me:

    [Dave]“There is no “essence” to races.”

    [JD]Nor species either, if you go back far enough. So what?

    You’re right, of course, and this is a major point of Darwinism.

    But, I think there is a very significant difference between species vs. human races:

    There is a huge overlap in intelligence, personality traits, etc. among different human races. It therefore makes sense to try to judge people as individuals. I.e., if you want to know some guy’s IQ, you can learn a lot more by simply giving him an IQ test than by just noting whether he is white, black, East Asian, or whatever.

    There are some closely related species for which the same is true.

    But not, as it happens, with humans vs. other primate species.

    I.e., there is pretty much no overlap in intelligence between chimps and Homo sapiens in intelligence.

    Concretely, I have known some extremely bright black people, Hispanic people, East Asian people, as well as white people in various STEM subjects.

    I have yet to meet a chimp who is really good at STEM subjects.

    • Replies: @Desiderius

    It therefore makes sense to try to judge people as individuals.
     
    Yeah, that's nice PDave. And useless when the government wants to hold you liable for black underperformance relative to whites. Must be discrimination since the overlap is so huge, according to you.

    The overlap is really not that huge, especially at the tails. Your (false) arguments are spewing moral hazard all over the place.
    , @guest
    That is not the point of Darwinism. Not if we're talking about the actual Darwin. Lord knows all that's been done under the name.
  170. @Paleo Liberal
    As long as there are Amish, as long as there are Mormons, as long as there are rural white farmers in Europe, North America and Australia/ New Zealand there will be white people.

    Maybe those are not the groups to preserve high brow Western culture.

    I am merely recognizing reality. My kids attended/are attending public schools which are about half white in a city (Madison) that used to be one of the whitest cities in the US.

    My kids are mixed, and a little less than half white.

    My biggest question is whether the culture we grew up with will survive the transition.
    Example 1: in the Madison high schools, most white kids participate in some form of organized sports at some point in their high school career. Most non-white kids do not. The cross country team at the local high school is enormous. A couple of hundred white kids plus a handful of non-white kids.

    I worry about the way arts and music programs are being constantly cut to pay for ESL classes.

    I remember one period of a couple of weeks when one of my kids, then a 5th grader, had the ultimate American cultural experience.

    First, she went to a ceremony where she was awarded first prize in a Native American kids’ art contest.
    Then, she had solos in two elementary school strings performances
    To cap it off, she got to sing the Star Spangled Banner with her school choir at opening day for a local minor league baseball team.
    While that was going on, she played a few Little League games.

    Whatever colors my grandchildren or your grandchildren are, I would hate for them to grow up in a world where this was no longer possible.

    Paleo Liberal wrote:

    My biggest question is whether the culture we grew up with will survive the transition.

    You’ve nailed the key point. It would be nice if three hundred years from now we still have the World Series, Cracker Jacks, and the other things we remember from oour childhood.

    But it really, really matters if we retain the rule of law, free markets, Western science and technology, and a host of other achievements from the last five hundred years of Western history.

    The good news, as you say, is that people who do not have white skins can adopt and advance these cultural achievements.

    The bad news is that some of the greatest enemies of Western civilization are powerful white people here in the West.

    Basically, Western civilization cannot die unless the whole world descends into a deep Dark Age: without Western science and technology, the world cannot sustain anything like the current population. But, it is possible for Westenr civilization to be maintained largely in East Asia while the West itself declines.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    As smart as the East Asians are, I don’t think they can produce a society like ours. I hope I am wrong.

    The success of the Anglosphere, the Netherlands and Scandinavia can be summed up in one word: transparency.

    At the end of the Ming Dynasty China was centuries ahead of the West in technology etc. The great thing about the West was the combination of copying the best of Chinese technology plus the openness of publishing data along with the scientific method. Add to that patent protection and a general sense of honesty and we created the perfect environment for science, technology, industry and commerce. Those conditions simply don’t exist in most parts of the world.

    About 20 years ago I compared the ratings of various Asian countries by Transparency International with how they were effected by the Asian currency crisis. The less transparent countries like Indonesia were the ones most deeply affected.

    What scares me about our mass immigration policy is they way it is making our country lose its transparency, as well as cohesiveness. We replaced the attitudes of togetherness forged in the World Wars and the Depression with a culture of let me grab what I can.
  171. @Mr McKenna
    They're so fortunate to have their own countries. Methinks it's part of the reason they can pay such good respect to the great works of western civ. Hence, perhaps, why we can't.

    Mr. McKenna wrote:

    [The Japanese singing the “Ode to Joy” are] so fortunate to have their own countries. Methinks it’s part of the reason they can pay such good respect to the great works of western civ. Hence, perhaps, why we can’t.

    Or maybe the Japanese ruling elite just does not hate their own country, their own people, and human civilization in general.

    No one can destroy the West except Westerners themselves — especially the current ruling elite.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Good to see you finding solid ground again, PDave. Dead on.
  172. @PhysicistDave
    Paleo Liberal wrote:

    My biggest question is whether the culture we grew up with will survive the transition.
     
    You've nailed the key point. It would be nice if three hundred years from now we still have the World Series, Cracker Jacks, and the other things we remember from oour childhood.

    But it really, really matters if we retain the rule of law, free markets, Western science and technology, and a host of other achievements from the last five hundred years of Western history.

    The good news, as you say, is that people who do not have white skins can adopt and advance these cultural achievements.

    The bad news is that some of the greatest enemies of Western civilization are powerful white people here in the West.

    Basically, Western civilization cannot die unless the whole world descends into a deep Dark Age: without Western science and technology, the world cannot sustain anything like the current population. But, it is possible for Westenr civilization to be maintained largely in East Asia while the West itself declines.

    As smart as the East Asians are, I don’t think they can produce a society like ours. I hope I am wrong.

    The success of the Anglosphere, the Netherlands and Scandinavia can be summed up in one word: transparency.

    At the end of the Ming Dynasty China was centuries ahead of the West in technology etc. The great thing about the West was the combination of copying the best of Chinese technology plus the openness of publishing data along with the scientific method. Add to that patent protection and a general sense of honesty and we created the perfect environment for science, technology, industry and commerce. Those conditions simply don’t exist in most parts of the world.

    About 20 years ago I compared the ratings of various Asian countries by Transparency International with how they were effected by the Asian currency crisis. The less transparent countries like Indonesia were the ones most deeply affected.

    What scares me about our mass immigration policy is they way it is making our country lose its transparency, as well as cohesiveness. We replaced the attitudes of togetherness forged in the World Wars and the Depression with a culture of let me grab what I can.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    If you compare that Late Ming to the present West you’ll find some uncomfortably exact parallels. A comparison of the eunuchs ruling China then and Europe now could be instructive.
    , @PhysicistDave
    Paleo Liberal wrote to me:

    As smart as the East Asians are, I don’t think they can produce a society like ours. I hope I am wrong.
     
    I don't know of course: one of the great qiestions in history and sociology is "The Rise of the West" -- what did we do right that no one else did?

    One theory is that the world was right on the verge of an inudstrial/scientific/technological take-off and the West just got there first. I'm frankly skeptical: I know a fair amount aboout the history of science and math, and it seems to me that the West in the 1500s and 1600s was not just qualitatively different from the rest of the world but quite dramatically so.

    The same seems to be true in the area of political thought (esepcially the Levellers in the English Civil War, whose ideas were systematized by John Locke and followed by the American Revolutionaries), classical music, etc.

    Another theory is that Christianity had both an intellectual and social-structural impact that helped lead to the rise of the West: e.g., the conflict between Church and State left breathing room for free soceities to develop.

    And then there is the theory that the other major cultures -- Islam, India, and China -- were, for various reasons, trapped in social and political dead-ends in the late medieval and early modern periods, and, by dumb luck, the West happened not to be.

    The one thing that is pretty clear is that no one in the West in 1500 planned or foresaw what would happen in the next five centuries.

    PL also wrote:

    At the end of the Ming Dynasty China was centuries ahead of the West in technology etc. The great thing about the West was the combination of copying the best of Chinese technology plus the openness of publishing data along with the scientific method.
     
    Yeah, prinitng (movable type) was key: unfortunately, it does not work well for the Chinese writing system.

    PL also wrote:

    What scares me about our mass immigration policy is they way it is making our country lose its transparency, as well as cohesiveness.
     
    Well, we Americans are better at assimilating outsiders than any other society in the last two millennia. But, yes, there are limits.

    I would note, though, that most immigrants are actually rather fond of Western civilization and of Ammerican culture in particular. They chose to come here, and most of them want their children to grow up as Americans.

    The problem is that our ruling elite is, quite knowingly, following a "divide and conquer" strategy of turnig races, genders, and classes against each other, so that the elite can maintain their power.

    As to your broad question of whether East Asians can preserve the major achievements of Wester civilization, my guess is that they can maintain at tleast the scientific/technological/industrail achievements, but I am not sure they have the dynamism to further advance what the West has created. The next few centuries are going to be interesting.
  173. @PhysicistDave
    Mr. McKenna wrote:

    [The Japanese singing the "Ode to Joy" are] so fortunate to have their own countries. Methinks it’s part of the reason they can pay such good respect to the great works of western civ. Hence, perhaps, why we can’t.
     
    Or maybe the Japanese ruling elite just does not hate their own country, their own people, and human civilization in general.

    No one can destroy the West except Westerners themselves -- especially the current ruling elite.

    Good to see you finding solid ground again, PDave. Dead on.

  174. @Paleo Liberal
    As smart as the East Asians are, I don’t think they can produce a society like ours. I hope I am wrong.

    The success of the Anglosphere, the Netherlands and Scandinavia can be summed up in one word: transparency.

    At the end of the Ming Dynasty China was centuries ahead of the West in technology etc. The great thing about the West was the combination of copying the best of Chinese technology plus the openness of publishing data along with the scientific method. Add to that patent protection and a general sense of honesty and we created the perfect environment for science, technology, industry and commerce. Those conditions simply don’t exist in most parts of the world.

    About 20 years ago I compared the ratings of various Asian countries by Transparency International with how they were effected by the Asian currency crisis. The less transparent countries like Indonesia were the ones most deeply affected.

    What scares me about our mass immigration policy is they way it is making our country lose its transparency, as well as cohesiveness. We replaced the attitudes of togetherness forged in the World Wars and the Depression with a culture of let me grab what I can.

    If you compare that Late Ming to the present West you’ll find some uncomfortably exact parallels. A comparison of the eunuchs ruling China then and Europe now could be instructive.

  175. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Paleo Liberal
    Well, it took bands like the Beatles to popularize Chuck Berry in your native England.

    Why not singers like her to popularize Western Classical Music in Asia?

    It took bands like the Beatles, Rolling Stones, et al to spread black American music with a white twist to white Americans. Old black bluesmen were of no interest to anyone, black or white, in the US until English blues and pop groups made it “okay” for whites in the US to like it. English had little experience with blacks firsthand so accepted the actual black music as it was.

  176. @Paleo Liberal
    As smart as the East Asians are, I don’t think they can produce a society like ours. I hope I am wrong.

    The success of the Anglosphere, the Netherlands and Scandinavia can be summed up in one word: transparency.

    At the end of the Ming Dynasty China was centuries ahead of the West in technology etc. The great thing about the West was the combination of copying the best of Chinese technology plus the openness of publishing data along with the scientific method. Add to that patent protection and a general sense of honesty and we created the perfect environment for science, technology, industry and commerce. Those conditions simply don’t exist in most parts of the world.

    About 20 years ago I compared the ratings of various Asian countries by Transparency International with how they were effected by the Asian currency crisis. The less transparent countries like Indonesia were the ones most deeply affected.

    What scares me about our mass immigration policy is they way it is making our country lose its transparency, as well as cohesiveness. We replaced the attitudes of togetherness forged in the World Wars and the Depression with a culture of let me grab what I can.

    Paleo Liberal wrote to me:

    As smart as the East Asians are, I don’t think they can produce a society like ours. I hope I am wrong.

    I don’t know of course: one of the great qiestions in history and sociology is “The Rise of the West” — what did we do right that no one else did?

    One theory is that the world was right on the verge of an inudstrial/scientific/technological take-off and the West just got there first. I’m frankly skeptical: I know a fair amount aboout the history of science and math, and it seems to me that the West in the 1500s and 1600s was not just qualitatively different from the rest of the world but quite dramatically so.

    The same seems to be true in the area of political thought (esepcially the Levellers in the English Civil War, whose ideas were systematized by John Locke and followed by the American Revolutionaries), classical music, etc.

    Another theory is that Christianity had both an intellectual and social-structural impact that helped lead to the rise of the West: e.g., the conflict between Church and State left breathing room for free soceities to develop.

    And then there is the theory that the other major cultures — Islam, India, and China — were, for various reasons, trapped in social and political dead-ends in the late medieval and early modern periods, and, by dumb luck, the West happened not to be.

    The one thing that is pretty clear is that no one in the West in 1500 planned or foresaw what would happen in the next five centuries.

    PL also wrote:

    At the end of the Ming Dynasty China was centuries ahead of the West in technology etc. The great thing about the West was the combination of copying the best of Chinese technology plus the openness of publishing data along with the scientific method.

    Yeah, prinitng (movable type) was key: unfortunately, it does not work well for the Chinese writing system.

    PL also wrote:

    What scares me about our mass immigration policy is they way it is making our country lose its transparency, as well as cohesiveness.

    Well, we Americans are better at assimilating outsiders than any other society in the last two millennia. But, yes, there are limits.

    I would note, though, that most immigrants are actually rather fond of Western civilization and of Ammerican culture in particular. They chose to come here, and most of them want their children to grow up as Americans.

    The problem is that our ruling elite is, quite knowingly, following a “divide and conquer” strategy of turnig races, genders, and classes against each other, so that the elite can maintain their power.

    As to your broad question of whether East Asians can preserve the major achievements of Wester civilization, my guess is that they can maintain at tleast the scientific/technological/industrail achievements, but I am not sure they have the dynamism to further advance what the West has created. The next few centuries are going to be interesting.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    You see things rather clearly, PhysicistDave.

    There were several things that opened up my mind to the way elites use racial divisions to separate people.

    One was reading a history of Hawaii, about how the sugar and pineapple plantation owners made sure there were always a variety of different languages spoken on the plantations so that the workers would never organize.

    Another was “The Strange Career of Jim Crow”, about how the ruling class in the South used racial divisions to keep poor blacks and poor whites from uniting.

    An Egyptian I know says he thinks the whole Muslim Brotherhood is to keep the Copts, the Sunni and the Shia separate.

    The brilliant political scientist Adolph Reed Jr, whose father was a close friend of my parents, is one of the few African Americans strongly opposed to black identity politics. I remember when some black nationalists said they wanted 5 states Adolph Sr said 5 counties would be enough for what he called “humanists”.

    It is amazing how few people on the left see how mass immigration and identity politics are just ways for the rulers to divide us.

    It also bothers me that many on the left and many on the right see how the oligarchs are screwing us over, but right wingers and left wingers hate each other more than they hate the oligarchs
  177. @PhysicistDave
    Paleo Liberal wrote to me:

    As smart as the East Asians are, I don’t think they can produce a society like ours. I hope I am wrong.
     
    I don't know of course: one of the great qiestions in history and sociology is "The Rise of the West" -- what did we do right that no one else did?

    One theory is that the world was right on the verge of an inudstrial/scientific/technological take-off and the West just got there first. I'm frankly skeptical: I know a fair amount aboout the history of science and math, and it seems to me that the West in the 1500s and 1600s was not just qualitatively different from the rest of the world but quite dramatically so.

    The same seems to be true in the area of political thought (esepcially the Levellers in the English Civil War, whose ideas were systematized by John Locke and followed by the American Revolutionaries), classical music, etc.

    Another theory is that Christianity had both an intellectual and social-structural impact that helped lead to the rise of the West: e.g., the conflict between Church and State left breathing room for free soceities to develop.

    And then there is the theory that the other major cultures -- Islam, India, and China -- were, for various reasons, trapped in social and political dead-ends in the late medieval and early modern periods, and, by dumb luck, the West happened not to be.

    The one thing that is pretty clear is that no one in the West in 1500 planned or foresaw what would happen in the next five centuries.

    PL also wrote:

    At the end of the Ming Dynasty China was centuries ahead of the West in technology etc. The great thing about the West was the combination of copying the best of Chinese technology plus the openness of publishing data along with the scientific method.
     
    Yeah, prinitng (movable type) was key: unfortunately, it does not work well for the Chinese writing system.

    PL also wrote:

    What scares me about our mass immigration policy is they way it is making our country lose its transparency, as well as cohesiveness.
     
    Well, we Americans are better at assimilating outsiders than any other society in the last two millennia. But, yes, there are limits.

    I would note, though, that most immigrants are actually rather fond of Western civilization and of Ammerican culture in particular. They chose to come here, and most of them want their children to grow up as Americans.

    The problem is that our ruling elite is, quite knowingly, following a "divide and conquer" strategy of turnig races, genders, and classes against each other, so that the elite can maintain their power.

    As to your broad question of whether East Asians can preserve the major achievements of Wester civilization, my guess is that they can maintain at tleast the scientific/technological/industrail achievements, but I am not sure they have the dynamism to further advance what the West has created. The next few centuries are going to be interesting.

    You see things rather clearly, PhysicistDave.

    There were several things that opened up my mind to the way elites use racial divisions to separate people.

    One was reading a history of Hawaii, about how the sugar and pineapple plantation owners made sure there were always a variety of different languages spoken on the plantations so that the workers would never organize.

    Another was “The Strange Career of Jim Crow”, about how the ruling class in the South used racial divisions to keep poor blacks and poor whites from uniting.

    An Egyptian I know says he thinks the whole Muslim Brotherhood is to keep the Copts, the Sunni and the Shia separate.

    The brilliant political scientist Adolph Reed Jr, whose father was a close friend of my parents, is one of the few African Americans strongly opposed to black identity politics. I remember when some black nationalists said they wanted 5 states Adolph Sr said 5 counties would be enough for what he called “humanists”.

    It is amazing how few people on the left see how mass immigration and identity politics are just ways for the rulers to divide us.

    It also bothers me that many on the left and many on the right see how the oligarchs are screwing us over, but right wingers and left wingers hate each other more than they hate the oligarchs

  178. @guest
    They really should do Mahler's Symphony of a Thousand.

  179. @PhysicistDave
    Joseph Doaks wrote to me:

    [Dave]“There is no “essence” to races.”

    [JD]Nor species either, if you go back far enough. So what?
     
    You're right, of course, and this is a major point of Darwinism.

    But, I think there is a very significant difference between species vs. human races:

    There is a huge overlap in intelligence, personality traits, etc. among different human races. It therefore makes sense to try to judge people as individuals. I.e., if you want to know some guy's IQ, you can learn a lot more by simply giving him an IQ test than by just noting whether he is white, black, East Asian, or whatever.

    There are some closely related species for which the same is true.

    But not, as it happens, with humans vs. other primate species.

    I.e., there is pretty much no overlap in intelligence between chimps and Homo sapiens in intelligence.

    Concretely, I have known some extremely bright black people, Hispanic people, East Asian people, as well as white people in various STEM subjects.

    I have yet to meet a chimp who is really good at STEM subjects.

    It therefore makes sense to try to judge people as individuals.

    Yeah, that’s nice PDave. And useless when the government wants to hold you liable for black underperformance relative to whites. Must be discrimination since the overlap is so huge, according to you.

    The overlap is really not that huge, especially at the tails. Your (false) arguments are spewing moral hazard all over the place.

  180. @PhysicistDave
    Joseph Doaks wrote to me:

    [Dave]“There is no “essence” to races.”

    [JD]Nor species either, if you go back far enough. So what?
     
    You're right, of course, and this is a major point of Darwinism.

    But, I think there is a very significant difference between species vs. human races:

    There is a huge overlap in intelligence, personality traits, etc. among different human races. It therefore makes sense to try to judge people as individuals. I.e., if you want to know some guy's IQ, you can learn a lot more by simply giving him an IQ test than by just noting whether he is white, black, East Asian, or whatever.

    There are some closely related species for which the same is true.

    But not, as it happens, with humans vs. other primate species.

    I.e., there is pretty much no overlap in intelligence between chimps and Homo sapiens in intelligence.

    Concretely, I have known some extremely bright black people, Hispanic people, East Asian people, as well as white people in various STEM subjects.

    I have yet to meet a chimp who is really good at STEM subjects.

    That is not the point of Darwinism. Not if we’re talking about the actual Darwin. Lord knows all that’s been done under the name.

  181. @flyingtiger
    Wasn't quarterback Roman Gabriel in some cowboy picture with John Wayne and Rock Hudson?

    The undefeated

  182. @Almost Missouri
    This is a good description of how the Left's cultural/legal dispossession scam works.

    Part of the reason it works is because the cultural gatekeepers who used to know better no longer do. They used to function as the control rods in the reactor, who would damp down crazy reactions before they went critical. Now they aid the craziness along.

    I know a nice, intelligent lady who directs the public outreach program of natural history (aka, natural science) for a major university. She regards Hidden Figures as more or less a documentary. And she tends to swallow whole whatever other of the latest revised conventional "wisdom" there is.

    Why would she do this? Well, one reason is that though she is an appointed ambassador of science to the public, she has no formal scientific training herself. She studied English literature or French or something in college. She has spent her whole career in academia, and she understands which views are acceptable to the Hierarchs of the Academy and which are not. In the past, her position would have been filled by an actual scientist, perhaps a Watson-type whose scientific-production career was declining, but whose managerial talent remained. Today, actual Watsons are hounded out of the Academy, so nice ladies of shallow understanding but acceptable views can occupy their positions.

    Ownership of the cultural narrative and the censorship power has consequences.

    Many, many consequences.

    I know a nice, intelligent lady who directs the public outreach program of natural history (aka, natural science) for a major university. She regards Hidden Figures as more or less a documentary. And she tends to swallow whole whatever other of the latest revised conventional “wisdom” there is.

    I’m re-reading C S Lewis’s scifi trilogy. I just read the following paragraph from the third book, That Hideous Strength. One of the evil characters who’s trying to take over the UK via ‘scientific’, sociologically-inspired and administered policies states:

    . . . it’s the educated reader who can be gulled. All our difficulty comes with the others. When did you meet a workman who believes the papers? He takes it for granted that they’re all propaganda and skips the leading articles . . . . He is our problem. We have to recondition him. But the educated public, the people who read the highbrow weeklies, don’t need conditioning. They’re all right already. They’ll believe anything.

    Lewis’s prescience was prophetic, in the full sense of the word.

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