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Open Thread 82
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I do realize that producing three posts a day one week, then one post per week the other, is rather ineffective. But what can one do with the vagaries of life’s schedules. For now, here’s another Open Thread to relieve the last one.

Our ancient car broke down so we will need to get another. I notice that the two most popular cars in Russia are the Lada Granta and the Lada Vesta, while the Lada Largus is in 7th place. Most of the rest on that list are mostly or entirely assembled within Russia. Indeed, as of 2017, Russia vehicle production (1.55M) was almost entirely equal to its vehicle sales (1.60M), according to OICA data.

I finished China’s Economy by Arthur Kroeber (h/t Polish Perspective). I agree with him that it is an excellent overview of that topic.

 
• Tags: Cars, Open Thread 
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  1. This is the current Open Thread, where anything goes – within reason.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

    • Replies: @Aft
    Stagger the posts.... It's just good marketing. Write them and file them away on delay.
  2. “Our”

    ?…

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Meh, since Karlin started to refer to his fan club here as "faggots" maybe he has also started to refer to himself in the plural form? (JUST SAYING) :-)
  3. Rod Dreher, the indefatigable blogger at the American Conservative, famous for
    the book The Benedict Option (whose main thesis is that the United States is in
    a state of decline resembling the waning days of the Roman Empire, and therefore
    to preserve Christianity the Americans need to imitate St. Benedict and partly
    withdraw from the corrupting effects of the school system and the mass media
    by forming intentional communities that are similar to the Benedictine monasteries
    except that they would be designed for families) is currently in Poland
    researching his next book. I wonder if he is going to mention the unusually low
    levels of social dysfunction (murder, rape, abortion, divorce, drug addiction, etc)
    in Poland that has resulted in the Holy Poland meme. His posts and comments
    shed a lot of light on the situation in that country.

    • Replies: @neutral
    I don't think Dreher is shedding that much new light on the situation, Karlin has already pointed out just how rapidly globo homo loving Poland has become.

    They are also more than happy to host non white soldiers occupying their land. Having blacks defend your nation is clearly not nationalism in any form, it is the complete opposite. Even if you ignore the black soldiers, Poland is very happy to bow to the wishes of the hard left EU, the land is cucked.
    , @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    Dreher might mean well, but I don't really take him seriously. He is very "blue-pilled" when it comes to women and a bunch of other issues. The blogger Dalrock has an entire tag dedicated to condemning Dreher's kowtowing to the Duluth Model of complementarian subversion of Christian churches. What right-wing Christian men need now is to learn to be men, but they aren't gonna get that from Dreher's playing footsy with whiny "Christian" quasi-feminist women.

    Dreher said he always felt less than accepted by his father, for one thing because he didn't enjoy hunting and fishing like all the other rednecks in Louisiana.

    Dreher is therefore a perfect example that men should, in fact, learn to enjoy hunting and fishing. Otherwise they'll be a bit of a sissy.

    I kid, I kid.

    , @Anonymous

    Abuse. Including gratuitous ad homs, personal attacks, and/or slander against me or other commenters.
     
    Do AK’s rules of conduct apply to personal attacks on people who would never read his blog or UR?? Well, anyway...

    Rod Dreher is an effeminate, perfidious POS. A intellectual poseur with a journalism degree from LSU. LMFAO. This most this whiny little bitch could’ve hoped for in a truly merit-based world is to be the morning traffic reporter for a news station in Wheeling, West Virginia.

    https://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/rod-dreher-and-the-politics-of-betrayal/

    rod dreher and the politics of betrayal

    ...The period following Charlottesville has also been marred by many attempts to score political points. Most have been at the expense of President Trump, whose election has never been accepted by many in the mainstream media, the entrenched bureaucracy, or the left. But some of these attacks hit closer to home. On Friday, Rod Dreher used his perch at The American Conservative to attack one of the men who founded that magazine, Pat Buchanan. Dreher charged that Buchanan’s column from the previous Tuesday, “If We Erase Our History, Who Are We?”, was a “shameful defense of white supremacy,” “abhorrent,” and “disgusting, racist, indefensible.” From Buchanan’s statement that the belief that all men are created equal is “ideological,” Dreher concluded that “Buchanan repudiates not only the founding principle of our Constitutional order, but also a core teaching of the Christian faith, which holds that all men are created in the image of God.” To bolster his attack, Dreher then cited a similar attack on Buchanan by neocon Mona Charen.

    Without Pat Buchanan, The American Conservative would not exist. Thus, Dreher's attack on Buchanan is an example of treachery and ingratitude, as well as Dreher's customary hysteria. (Charen is an ingrate too, since Buchanan helped her in the Reagan White house and after). It is also false: Buchanan’s column merely points out, as suggested by its title, that if Robert E. Lee must go, so too must many other central figures in American and Western history. This may shock Rod Dreher, but Christians from antiquity on did not deny any core teaching of the Church by accepting or even defending the feudal hierarchies that characterized their societies, including the hierarchy the Church defended against the egalitarianism of the French Revolution. It may shock Dreher even more to learn that the phrase “all men are created equal” appears nowhere in the United States Constitution, which actually is the foundation of “our Constitutional order.” As a respected conservative author wrote to me after Dreher’s attack, “What Pat was clearly saying is that if we are to wipe the Confederacy from the historical record, so should we erase all the previous history of the West.[Dreher’s] misreading of the column is plainly willful. He's playing some sort of political game or another, but who really cares?”...

    ...Like many pundits, Dreher paid no price for being spectacularly wrong about Iraq, because he knows how to play the game, a game that encourages both calculation (including calculated attacks on those to one’s right) and adherence to the ever-expanding rules of political correctness. I think we’d be better off changing the rules of the game to encourage frankness and courage. Sadly, Dreher’s attack is just another reminder that those rules are unlikely to change anytime soon. Until they do, the last word belongs to one of the online commenters on Dreher’s attack: “A prophet is not without honor, except at his own magazine.”

     

  4. Person with 170k followers says he likes Trump today more than he did in 2016:

    Mark Lutchman’s claim to fame:

    [MORE]

    Counter-point:

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    Fried chicken, watermelon, and grape soda.
    , @BengaliCanadianDude
    Where are the watermelons?
  5. @Hail
    Person with 170k followers says he likes Trump today more than he did in 2016:

    https://twitter.com/marklutchman/status/1148003242883915777

    Mark Lutchman's claim to fame:



    https://twitter.com/marklutchman/status/1064294839825678336

    Counter-point:

    https://i1.wp.com/stonetoss.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/based-black-guy-comic1.png

    Fried chicken, watermelon, and grape soda.

  6. Anatoly, have you considered visiting Belarus anytime soon? After all, you do have expansionist desires in that direction and thus it would certainly be interesting for you to do a review on it like you previously did with Romania.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @anonymous

    Anatoly, have you considered visiting Belarus anytime soon? After all, you do have expansionist desires in that direction and thus it would certainly be interesting for you to do a review on it like you previously did with Romania.
     
    To visit all lost Russian lands and to review whether they are deserving of annexation to the Great Russian Galactic Empire, Mr. Karlin needs to travel alot.

    http://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/sputnik-i-pogrom-big-russia.jpg
  7. To the Polish and Russian readers:

    I want to recommend “Centrum Polsko-Rosyjskiego Dialogu i Porozumienia”
    (Center for Polish-Russian Dialogue and Understanding) in Poland. They are
    on Facebook and seem to be very active – a lot of good-looking girls! There are
    at least 10,000 Russians living in Poland, and their number is growing. There are
    now a whole number of Russians on YouTube extolling the virtues of living in
    Poland, and encouraging more Russians to come.

    One example is a young woman who goes by the name Marain on her YouTube vlog. She
    was born and raised in Moscow but her family is largely Polish and comes from Brest in
    Belarus near the Polish border. She and her brother got Karta Polaka (Polonian’s Card),
    moved to Poland, and are now students at the University of Warsaw. She is majoring
    in English and minoring in Spanish. She is a vegetarian, and likes the fact that in
    Warsaw, unlike in Moscow, you’re always close to green spaces.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Poles need to have far more children, as do Russians. If some of them wish to do so together, great! Talk about an impetus for better relations....
    , @Mitleser
    Warsaw's green is for goats.

    https://abload.de/img/66773383_395869577945vik4h.jpg
  8. Do they have Dacia cars where you are? My in-laws in Romania have the Logan model, which is a decent economy car.

    Before that, they had one of the ubiquitous 13oo models copied from the Renault 12. That type was maintained for decades by many people there and can still be seen. They waited months for that car, and then waited days sometimes to buy meager monthly fuel rations.

    It is good to have affordable, easily-repaired transportation. That way people can keep it going through whatever history, politics and economics throw at them.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    The Renault Duster is the Dacian Duster in all but name (as I am given to understand).
  9. My local mechanic, a king among proles, says Ladas are good cars. I might buy one in the next few years.

  10. bb. says:

    what do you need the car for? Just Moscow or also road-trips <1000km? How many km do you plan to make per year? most importantly, how much are you looking to spend? personally, at this time I wouldn't buy a new car. The used car market is great and getting better by the month. A new Vesta goes for what? €10k ? you may get a couple of years or km of warranty but from what I heard they are really not that comfortable, especially for longer trips. For 10k, you can get a really nice used import/Russia assembled car. Personally, if you don't want to spend a lot, I would get a Skoda or Toyota. If it has to be a Lada, you should think about X-ray(http://www.ooyyo.com/russia/c=CDA31D7114D2854F111B906FB6741253CCA20A7037D3/-1874531292400282769.html/#_) if you want to go to the country side

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMPQI08nJ5U
  11. She is a vegetarian, and likes the fact that in
    Warsaw, unlike in Moscow, you’re always close to green spaces.

    And a 10€ FlixBus ride from Kreuzberg.

  12. @bb.
    what do you need the car for? Just Moscow or also road-trips <1000km? How many km do you plan to make per year? most importantly, how much are you looking to spend? personally, at this time I wouldn't buy a new car. The used car market is great and getting better by the month. A new Vesta goes for what? €10k ? you may get a couple of years or km of warranty but from what I heard they are really not that comfortable, especially for longer trips. For 10k, you can get a really nice used import/Russia assembled car. Personally, if you don't want to spend a lot, I would get a Skoda or Toyota. If it has to be a Lada, you should think about X-ray(http://www.ooyyo.com/russia/c=CDA31D7114D2854F111B906FB6741253CCA20A7037D3/-1874531292400282769.html/#_) if you want to go to the country side

    • Replies: @bb.
    'it's pretty easy to get in and out' lol
  13. Italy and Hungary trying to revive Quadragonale (Hexagonale)?

    Hungary Inks Deal on Trieste Port
    https://hungarytoday.hu/hungary-italy-deal-trieste-port/

  14. @Buzz Mohawk
    Do they have Dacia cars where you are? My in-laws in Romania have the Logan model, which is a decent economy car.

    Before that, they had one of the ubiquitous 13oo models copied from the Renault 12. That type was maintained for decades by many people there and can still be seen. They waited months for that car, and then waited days sometimes to buy meager monthly fuel rations.

    It is good to have affordable, easily-repaired transportation. That way people can keep it going through whatever history, politics and economics throw at them.

    The Renault Duster is the Dacian Duster in all but name (as I am given to understand).

  15. Could You Pass The Russian Gopnik Test?!

    • Replies: @neutral
    What is the difference between a gobnik and a vatnik?
    , @Mr. Hack
    Great clip - still don't know what the squatting is all about - perhaps some kind of holdover from Soviet times when everyone had to squat in the public stalls to find some relief? :-)
  16. @Mikhail
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMPQI08nJ5U

    ‘it’s pretty easy to get in and out’ lol

  17. anonymous[278] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr. XYZ
    Anatoly, have you considered visiting Belarus anytime soon? After all, you do have expansionist desires in that direction and thus it would certainly be interesting for you to do a review on it like you previously did with Romania.

    Anatoly, have you considered visiting Belarus anytime soon? After all, you do have expansionist desires in that direction and thus it would certainly be interesting for you to do a review on it like you previously did with Romania.

    To visit all lost Russian lands and to review whether they are deserving of annexation to the Great Russian Galactic Empire, Mr. Karlin needs to travel alot.

    • Replies: @sudden death
    this is great picture, perfectly illustrating what a laughable type of RU landgrabism is the one which is masquerading itself as "RU ethnic nationalism" , e.g. Lithuania has roughly 85% non slavic Lithuanian ethnic majority, 5% Poles and 5% Russians, but they still paint it as a part of "Russia for Russians" and are somewhat surprised when people there are requesting more NATO military presence :) there are other cultivated types of landgrabism in RF such as eurasianism, retrosovietism or retroimperialism, but at least those are little bit more internally consistent.
  18. @Anon 2
    Rod Dreher, the indefatigable blogger at the American Conservative, famous for
    the book The Benedict Option (whose main thesis is that the United States is in
    a state of decline resembling the waning days of the Roman Empire, and therefore
    to preserve Christianity the Americans need to imitate St. Benedict and partly
    withdraw from the corrupting effects of the school system and the mass media
    by forming intentional communities that are similar to the Benedictine monasteries
    except that they would be designed for families) is currently in Poland
    researching his next book. I wonder if he is going to mention the unusually low
    levels of social dysfunction (murder, rape, abortion, divorce, drug addiction, etc)
    in Poland that has resulted in the Holy Poland meme. His posts and comments
    shed a lot of light on the situation in that country.

    I don’t think Dreher is shedding that much new light on the situation, Karlin has already pointed out just how rapidly globo homo loving Poland has become.

    They are also more than happy to host non white soldiers occupying their land. Having blacks defend your nation is clearly not nationalism in any form, it is the complete opposite. Even if you ignore the black soldiers, Poland is very happy to bow to the wishes of the hard left EU, the land is cucked.

    • Replies: @Thumbhead
    Lol at some Russian screaming about black NATO troops in Poland, as if that compensates for the fact the Russia has millions of Muslims and record rates of AIDS
    , @AP
    Poland: another country whiter than Russia and far whiter than wherever neutral lives. And will remain so.
  19. @utu
    Could You Pass The Russian Gopnik Test?!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42DzIDtMJlY

    What is the difference between a gobnik and a vatnik?

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
    I'm not an expert, but I think it's analogous to the difference between wiggers and rednecks. I've had mostly amicable interactions with both, so long as they aren't too drunkenly aggressive.
    , @utu

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatnik_(slang)
    Its meaning is to disparage someone as a blindly patriotic and not very smart Russian.[4][5] "Put simply, the vatnik is representative of a certain archetypical Russian who slavishly supports the regime out of fear, hatred of others, or most often a combination of both."
     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopnik
    is a stereotype and subculture in Russia, Ukraine, Belarus and other former Soviet republics to refer to young men of sometimes lower-class suburban areas (usually under 25 years of age)[2] coming from families of poor education and (sometimes) income.
     
  20. The truth is now revealed, although the Kremlin is of course in denial mode:

    Poll Shows Every Tenth Russian Has Been Tortured; Kremlin Skeptical

    One in every 10 Russians has experienced torture at the hands of law enforcement, according to a new poll released to coincide with the International Day in Support of Victims of Torture on June 26.

    The poll by independent Russian pollster Levada Center, which was commissioned by the UN-affiliated Committee Against Torture, found that 60 percent of Russians view torture under any circumstances as impermissible, while 30 percent approve of it in specific cases, including against a serious criminal or to help save a life.

    Of those who claimed to have experienced torture, 75 percent said it was aimed at humiliating or intimidating them.

    https://www.rferl.org/a/poll-shows-every-tenth-russian-has-been-tortured-kremlin-skeptical/30022063.htm

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
    Insignificant resident of Russia skeptical.

    I've lived here a number of years, know no one who has had any problems with the police, and my own interactions have consisted of "May we see your passport police? Right. Everything in order. Carry on." and "May I see your automobile documents please? Right. Next time you really should be carrying a translation of your foreign drivers license. Carry on."

    Maybe 1 in 10 Russians is a gopnik, and they really do get tortured?
    , @melanf

    Poll Shows Every Tenth Russian Has Been Tortured; Kremlin Skeptical
     
    As a resident of Russia, I am also extremely skeptical.

    Probably some trick with the "psychological torture" (the cop was rude to you - you are a victim of torture )

  21. @anonymous

    Anatoly, have you considered visiting Belarus anytime soon? After all, you do have expansionist desires in that direction and thus it would certainly be interesting for you to do a review on it like you previously did with Romania.
     
    To visit all lost Russian lands and to review whether they are deserving of annexation to the Great Russian Galactic Empire, Mr. Karlin needs to travel alot.

    http://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/sputnik-i-pogrom-big-russia.jpg

    this is great picture, perfectly illustrating what a laughable type of RU landgrabism is the one which is masquerading itself as “RU ethnic nationalism” , e.g. Lithuania has roughly 85% non slavic Lithuanian ethnic majority, 5% Poles and 5% Russians, but they still paint it as a part of “Russia for Russians” and are somewhat surprised when people there are requesting more NATO military presence 🙂 there are other cultivated types of landgrabism in RF such as eurasianism, retrosovietism or retroimperialism, but at least those are little bit more internally consistent.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    https://sputnikipogrom.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/rusmap2.jpg

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/russian-nationalism-101

    https://sputnikipogrom.com/russia/41868/this-is-russia

    Do not worry, Poland and Romania also have their part in the Great Russian Galactic Empire.

    Poland and Romania will leave NATO and EU and became neutral buffer states like Finland.
     
    Do you think that Mr. Karlin's visit in Romania was only for sightseeing? ;-)

    www.unz.com/akarlin/romania
  22. @neutral
    What is the difference between a gobnik and a vatnik?

    I’m not an expert, but I think it’s analogous to the difference between wiggers and rednecks. I’ve had mostly amicable interactions with both, so long as they aren’t too drunkenly aggressive.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Gopniks are the lumpenproletariat. Vatniks are Uralvagonzavod workers.
  23. @for-the-record
    The truth is now revealed, although the Kremlin is of course in denial mode:

    Poll Shows Every Tenth Russian Has Been Tortured; Kremlin Skeptical

    One in every 10 Russians has experienced torture at the hands of law enforcement, according to a new poll released to coincide with the International Day in Support of Victims of Torture on June 26.

    The poll by independent Russian pollster Levada Center, which was commissioned by the UN-affiliated Committee Against Torture, found that 60 percent of Russians view torture under any circumstances as impermissible, while 30 percent approve of it in specific cases, including against a serious criminal or to help save a life.

    Of those who claimed to have experienced torture, 75 percent said it was aimed at humiliating or intimidating them.

    https://www.rferl.org/a/poll-shows-every-tenth-russian-has-been-tortured-kremlin-skeptical/30022063.htm
     

    Insignificant resident of Russia skeptical.

    I’ve lived here a number of years, know no one who has had any problems with the police, and my own interactions have consisted of “May we see your passport police? Right. Everything in order. Carry on.” and “May I see your automobile documents please? Right. Next time you really should be carrying a translation of your foreign drivers license. Carry on.”

    Maybe 1 in 10 Russians is a gopnik, and they really do get tortured?

    • Replies: @notanon

    Maybe 1 in 10 Russians is a gopnik, and they really do get tortured?
     
    don't know about Russia but police generally make a distinction between "criminal class" and regular civilian (at least they did before immigration confused the issue).

    1 in 10 seems high though unless they did the survey in a particularly rough neighborhood.

    (unless when they say "torture" they include for example things like getting beat up if they put a cop in hospital during an arrest)
  24. Insignificant resident of Russia skeptical.

    I am too, I took it as simply another example of “Western”-inspired propaganda.

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
    I don't follow them, but my impression in the past has been that Levada acts in good faith with respect to actual statistics, even if not in its after-the-fact moralizing. I'd be interested in hearing AK's opinion that.
  25. anonymous[422] • Disclaimer says:
    @sudden death
    this is great picture, perfectly illustrating what a laughable type of RU landgrabism is the one which is masquerading itself as "RU ethnic nationalism" , e.g. Lithuania has roughly 85% non slavic Lithuanian ethnic majority, 5% Poles and 5% Russians, but they still paint it as a part of "Russia for Russians" and are somewhat surprised when people there are requesting more NATO military presence :) there are other cultivated types of landgrabism in RF such as eurasianism, retrosovietism or retroimperialism, but at least those are little bit more internally consistent.

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/russian-nationalism-101

    https://sputnikipogrom.com/russia/41868/this-is-russia

    Do not worry, Poland and Romania also have their part in the Great Russian Galactic Empire.

    Poland and Romania will leave NATO and EU and became neutral buffer states like Finland.

    Do you think that Mr. Karlin’s visit in Romania was only for sightseeing? 😉

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/romania

  26. @for-the-record
    Insignificant resident of Russia skeptical.

    I am too, I took it as simply another example of "Western"-inspired propaganda.

    I don’t follow them, but my impression in the past has been that Levada acts in good faith with respect to actual statistics, even if not in its after-the-fact moralizing. I’d be interested in hearing AK’s opinion that.

  27. @for-the-record
    The truth is now revealed, although the Kremlin is of course in denial mode:

    Poll Shows Every Tenth Russian Has Been Tortured; Kremlin Skeptical

    One in every 10 Russians has experienced torture at the hands of law enforcement, according to a new poll released to coincide with the International Day in Support of Victims of Torture on June 26.

    The poll by independent Russian pollster Levada Center, which was commissioned by the UN-affiliated Committee Against Torture, found that 60 percent of Russians view torture under any circumstances as impermissible, while 30 percent approve of it in specific cases, including against a serious criminal or to help save a life.

    Of those who claimed to have experienced torture, 75 percent said it was aimed at humiliating or intimidating them.

    https://www.rferl.org/a/poll-shows-every-tenth-russian-has-been-tortured-kremlin-skeptical/30022063.htm
     

    Poll Shows Every Tenth Russian Has Been Tortured; Kremlin Skeptical

    As a resident of Russia, I am also extremely skeptical.

    Probably some trick with the “psychological torture” (the cop was rude to you – you are a victim of torture )

    • Agree: AP
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    I agree. I would find it credible if it was in the 2%-5% range.
  28. utu says:
    @neutral
    What is the difference between a gobnik and a vatnik?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatnik_(slang)
    Its meaning is to disparage someone as a blindly patriotic and not very smart Russian.[4][5] “Put simply, the vatnik is representative of a certain archetypical Russian who slavishly supports the regime out of fear, hatred of others, or most often a combination of both.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopnik
    is a stereotype and subculture in Russia, Ukraine, Belarus and other former Soviet republics to refer to young men of sometimes lower-class suburban areas (usually under 25 years of age)[2] coming from families of poor education and (sometimes) income.

  29. @neutral
    I don't think Dreher is shedding that much new light on the situation, Karlin has already pointed out just how rapidly globo homo loving Poland has become.

    They are also more than happy to host non white soldiers occupying their land. Having blacks defend your nation is clearly not nationalism in any form, it is the complete opposite. Even if you ignore the black soldiers, Poland is very happy to bow to the wishes of the hard left EU, the land is cucked.

    Lol at some Russian screaming about black NATO troops in Poland, as if that compensates for the fact the Russia has millions of Muslims and record rates of AIDS

    • Replies: @neutral
    Lol, at the moron who thinks I am Russian. Not sure how Russia having Muslims is an argument for Poland to have blacks.
  30. @The Big Red Scary
    Insignificant resident of Russia skeptical.

    I've lived here a number of years, know no one who has had any problems with the police, and my own interactions have consisted of "May we see your passport police? Right. Everything in order. Carry on." and "May I see your automobile documents please? Right. Next time you really should be carrying a translation of your foreign drivers license. Carry on."

    Maybe 1 in 10 Russians is a gopnik, and they really do get tortured?

    Maybe 1 in 10 Russians is a gopnik, and they really do get tortured?

    don’t know about Russia but police generally make a distinction between “criminal class” and regular civilian (at least they did before immigration confused the issue).

    1 in 10 seems high though unless they did the survey in a particularly rough neighborhood.

    (unless when they say “torture” they include for example things like getting beat up if they put a cop in hospital during an arrest)

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary

    don’t know about Russia but police generally make a distinction between “criminal class” and regular civilian
     
    I think this effect is even stronger in Russia. I once had to fill out some papers at the police station to report a lost document. It was clear talking to them that my profession and others signs of social status were very important to them. Possibly why no one I know has had problems with the police is that no one I know is of low status. But this is no different from anywhere else I have lived.
  31. @Anon 2
    Rod Dreher, the indefatigable blogger at the American Conservative, famous for
    the book The Benedict Option (whose main thesis is that the United States is in
    a state of decline resembling the waning days of the Roman Empire, and therefore
    to preserve Christianity the Americans need to imitate St. Benedict and partly
    withdraw from the corrupting effects of the school system and the mass media
    by forming intentional communities that are similar to the Benedictine monasteries
    except that they would be designed for families) is currently in Poland
    researching his next book. I wonder if he is going to mention the unusually low
    levels of social dysfunction (murder, rape, abortion, divorce, drug addiction, etc)
    in Poland that has resulted in the Holy Poland meme. His posts and comments
    shed a lot of light on the situation in that country.

    Dreher might mean well, but I don’t really take him seriously. He is very “blue-pilled” when it comes to women and a bunch of other issues. The blogger Dalrock has an entire tag dedicated to condemning Dreher’s kowtowing to the Duluth Model of complementarian subversion of Christian churches. What right-wing Christian men need now is to learn to be men, but they aren’t gonna get that from Dreher’s playing footsy with whiny “Christian” quasi-feminist women.

    Dreher said he always felt less than accepted by his father, for one thing because he didn’t enjoy hunting and fishing like all the other rednecks in Louisiana.

    Dreher is therefore a perfect example that men should, in fact, learn to enjoy hunting and fishing. Otherwise they’ll be a bit of a sissy.

    I kid, I kid.

    • Replies: @anon
    Rod Dreher is also hardcore global warmist.

    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/france-europe-heat-wave/

    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/global-warming-judgement-by-fire/

    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/climate-change-global-warming-heat-city/

    , @iffen
    John, I think that you are one of the more confused commenters here at Unz.
  32. @Thumbhead
    Lol at some Russian screaming about black NATO troops in Poland, as if that compensates for the fact the Russia has millions of Muslims and record rates of AIDS

    Lol, at the moron who thinks I am Russian. Not sure how Russia having Muslims is an argument for Poland to have blacks.

  33. @neutral
    I don't think Dreher is shedding that much new light on the situation, Karlin has already pointed out just how rapidly globo homo loving Poland has become.

    They are also more than happy to host non white soldiers occupying their land. Having blacks defend your nation is clearly not nationalism in any form, it is the complete opposite. Even if you ignore the black soldiers, Poland is very happy to bow to the wishes of the hard left EU, the land is cucked.

    Poland: another country whiter than Russia and far whiter than wherever neutral lives. And will remain so.

    • Replies: @neutral
    You can't remain white if you are subservient to anti white regimes, there are no hypothetical scenarios where Poland will remain white while still brown nosing both the USA and EU. The future news stories have already written themselves, it will be about how the Polish values of tolerance, diversity and democracy have triumphed over the xenophobes that are opposing the ever increasing numbers of non whites entering Poland.
    , @Adam
    Sure, and France, the UK, and Sweden were 'whiter' than Russia for the vast majority of their history, that's not the case anymore. But keep believing that a ruling class that's heavily Americanized and integrated with the EU will somehow sustain a thousand year Polish ethnostate.
    , @Gerard2

    Poland: another country whiter than Russia and far whiter than wherever neutral lives. And will remain so.
     
    LOL you prick ( I would have thought the debacle of your "linguistic expertise' would have relegated a POS as you to never appear on here again, but this doesn't appear to be the case)
    Poland isn't a "white country" in the sense of what people are thinking when they use the term

    There is white..and then there is "white" in the sense of white civilization - intellectual and cultural superiority together with their skin colour - comprised of Europe and the English speaking world of US, NZ, Canada and Australia.

    Obviously Poland doesn't classify as "white" in that sense you idiot because it has been an intellectual and cultural blackhole of Europe for centuries ( honourable exceptions for Copernicus, then Kosier - communist leader of Ukraine immediately leading upto the William randolph-Hearst - Coca-cola-World-Series 'Golodomor" , and Dzherzinsky as Poles have nobody else at all to idolise) .
    Poland is essentially defined by failure against Russia ( Russia defeating polish barbarism) - any "whiteness" or"pseudo-catholicism" in Poland artificial and masks a massive drain in population there in the last 20 years - exporting human trafficking, drug smuggling, extreme cases of robbery, drunken car crashes and domestic violence into otherwise civilised countries in the EU ( like the UK, where Poles in British are by far the highest foreign national in prisons - even though there are large numbers of long-time populations from Ireland, african countries and India/Pakistan)

    Crisis in EU is from 3 things -

    1.direction of Italy - which would almost certainly not be in the strongly anti-EU government it is now, if parasite Poland accepted 40000 immigrants ( a country that unlike sucessful and stable Czech rep, Hungary and Slovakia is not a net exporter of people but has kept it's population the same for 25+ years should not allowed to refuse to make even basic concessions)

    2. Russia relations - Sure, mainly America drives this, but after that it is Poland driving the idiotic policy towards Russia - a policy where Moldova, Gruzia and of course, Ukropia keep f**king-up even more extravagantly by the month -
    Russia - a country that survives or wins against all odds, Poland - a country that fails despite all the odds in favour of them

    3. UK relations with EU - Brexit is solely due to the poles - that refusal for migrant concession but mainly because of immigration - Indians, Afro-carribeans and Irish ( some chinese) have been in Britain for decades or even over a century - but it is only from when mass waves of immigrants from Poland arrived ( not Romanians, Albanians or anyone else who were the problem) since 2004 that there has been developed severe distate towards the EU, centred on immigration, in Britain
  34. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    Dreher might mean well, but I don't really take him seriously. He is very "blue-pilled" when it comes to women and a bunch of other issues. The blogger Dalrock has an entire tag dedicated to condemning Dreher's kowtowing to the Duluth Model of complementarian subversion of Christian churches. What right-wing Christian men need now is to learn to be men, but they aren't gonna get that from Dreher's playing footsy with whiny "Christian" quasi-feminist women.

    Dreher said he always felt less than accepted by his father, for one thing because he didn't enjoy hunting and fishing like all the other rednecks in Louisiana.

    Dreher is therefore a perfect example that men should, in fact, learn to enjoy hunting and fishing. Otherwise they'll be a bit of a sissy.

    I kid, I kid.

    • Replies: @AP
    Climate change will accelerate the migrant and refugee problem and should be a focus of concern.
  35. @anon
    Rod Dreher is also hardcore global warmist.

    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/france-europe-heat-wave/

    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/global-warming-judgement-by-fire/

    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/climate-change-global-warming-heat-city/

    Climate change will accelerate the migrant and refugee problem and should be a focus of concern.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
  36. @AP
    Poland: another country whiter than Russia and far whiter than wherever neutral lives. And will remain so.

    You can’t remain white if you are subservient to anti white regimes, there are no hypothetical scenarios where Poland will remain white while still brown nosing both the USA and EU. The future news stories have already written themselves, it will be about how the Polish values of tolerance, diversity and democracy have triumphed over the xenophobes that are opposing the ever increasing numbers of non whites entering Poland.

    • Agree: Thulean Friend
    • Replies: @AP
    Is there an all-white country you don't hate, other than perhaps Belarus?

    Again, the stupidity of white nationalists never fails to amuse. Though the only ones I've encountered have been here.

  37. Turkey in trouble?

    • Replies: @Curious
    Their fertility rate is now 1.99 according to recently released stats. This masks a significant heterogeneity. TFR for kurds is far higher, for 'ethnic' Turks it is likely no more than 1.6-1.7.

    On top of that, Erdogan fired their central bank governor over the weekend and the lira has taken a drubbing today. The S-400 sale could potentially invite sanctions. India likely evaded such sanctions because India is too big and important in the chess game against China. Turkey isn't.

    More fundamentally, Turkey's growth model, to the extent there is one, has been built on cheap credit and a massive construction boom. This has meant running huge current account deficits which in turns has indebted their private sector. Getting indebted in foreign currency is not a good thing when running huge CADs because as your currency gets weaker, the cost of repaying those foreign-FX loans increases.

    There are also tensions within the country. Erdogan has had a very liberal immigration regime, so now there are millions of arabs roaming the streets of the country. Talks about imminent deportation remain hollow. The recent win of the secular opposition in major cities should not mask the fact that they have often been more strident on nationalism/ethnic identity than AKP, while being less religious in the process. I personally prefer AKP in power, because a weak Turkey is good for Europe. CHP, the secular opposition, can tap a lot of high IQ turks both at home and abroad, which makes them more formidable. They are also more likely to influence the EU given their secular nature and ease with Westerners. Finally, AKP in power exposes many turks living in Europe as a fifth column, which is good for our domestic politics.

  38. @notanon

    Maybe 1 in 10 Russians is a gopnik, and they really do get tortured?
     
    don't know about Russia but police generally make a distinction between "criminal class" and regular civilian (at least they did before immigration confused the issue).

    1 in 10 seems high though unless they did the survey in a particularly rough neighborhood.

    (unless when they say "torture" they include for example things like getting beat up if they put a cop in hospital during an arrest)

    don’t know about Russia but police generally make a distinction between “criminal class” and regular civilian

    I think this effect is even stronger in Russia. I once had to fill out some papers at the police station to report a lost document. It was clear talking to them that my profession and others signs of social status were very important to them. Possibly why no one I know has had problems with the police is that no one I know is of low status. But this is no different from anywhere else I have lived.

    • Agree: notanon
  39. from previous thread cos too long

    Therefore, it’s extremely doubtful to me that …[snip]… 2) China’s growth can be stopped.

    China’s growth will be (and currently is being) stopped by supply and demand.

    if you move all the production to places with the cheapest labor who is going to buy the stuff?

    I think they will soon come to dominate the world.

    this is currently likely but more due to America’s collapse then unstoppable growth.

  40. @Anon 2
    To the Polish and Russian readers:

    I want to recommend “Centrum Polsko-Rosyjskiego Dialogu i Porozumienia”
    (Center for Polish-Russian Dialogue and Understanding) in Poland. They are
    on Facebook and seem to be very active - a lot of good-looking girls! There are
    at least 10,000 Russians living in Poland, and their number is growing. There are
    now a whole number of Russians on YouTube extolling the virtues of living in
    Poland, and encouraging more Russians to come.

    One example is a young woman who goes by the name Marain on her YouTube vlog. She
    was born and raised in Moscow but her family is largely Polish and comes from Brest in
    Belarus near the Polish border. She and her brother got Karta Polaka (Polonian’s Card),
    moved to Poland, and are now students at the University of Warsaw. She is majoring
    in English and minoring in Spanish. She is a vegetarian, and likes the fact that in
    Warsaw, unlike in Moscow, you’re always close to green spaces.

    Poles need to have far more children, as do Russians. If some of them wish to do so together, great! Talk about an impetus for better relations….

    • Replies: @Epigon

    Poles need to have far more children, as do Russians. If some of them wish to do so together, great!
     
    No, no more Ukrainians, please.
  41. @RadicalCenter
    Poles need to have far more children, as do Russians. If some of them wish to do so together, great! Talk about an impetus for better relations....

    Poles need to have far more children, as do Russians. If some of them wish to do so together, great!

    No, no more Ukrainians, please.

    • LOL: DreadIlk
  42. Go ahead and get a лада if you like, but it’s simply a fact that Japanese cars, really Honda and Toyota, are the most reliable and well built. I would get a Honda Civic Si if I were you, if it’s available in Russia.

    • Replies: @Vishnugupta
    The point of a Lada is that it is relatively cheap and now basically has Renault internals so is reasonably modern. The most visible modern car in Moscow/Spb is the Hyundai Solaris which is also what you usually get as the lowest cost option on yandex taxi. This corresponds to the Honda city which is a size smaller than the civic. Infact one does not find many Japanese cars on Russian roads mostly European and Korean.
    , @Mikhail
    I bought a 2000 Si new in the US. Two years later, it was stolen from my driveway and found off the Belt Parkway stripped. Insurance gave me 200 more than I paid. That car was rated the most stolen car. The rice boys and auto parts crooks love Civics, especially the Si.

    To avoid that happening again, I've had two Spec Vs (02 and 06). The quality control isn't as good. Nissan took a down slide after its merger with Renault. When compared to the Civic Sis of that period and a few years after, the Spec Vs are known for having better torque. I noticed that right away. 0-60 times are quite overrated. 0-30 is a more practical speed gauge. The Civic Sis of that era needed to be highly revved to achieve their top times in the 0-60 range.

    The newest Si has a small under two litre engine, coupled with a turbo making a good deal of horsepower. With that makeup, and its being relatively new in the Honda line, I'd be concerned about the long term durability of that engine.

    Thinking about a V6 Accord stick in the future. Honda is said to make the best shifters.

    Toyotas are generally more reliable than Hondas. Hondas are generally more fun to drive. In terms of reliability, the now discontinued Grand Marquis, Lincoln Town Car and Crown Vic are good options.

    , @Anatoly Karlin
    Getting a car not in the ~top 10 of popularity is not a good idea for people on a budget in principle because whatever marginal benefits in quality you get will be swamped by greater costs in mechanical servicing. But FWIW, I am currently pondering between the Lada Vesta and the Skoda Rapid. I'll go testing tomorrow.
  43. BAMMAMA and POTWB in London.

    Blacks are more muscular and more aggressive.

    Pussification of the White Boy.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Apparently that mugging was in South Africa not London. But anyway...

    https://www.dw.com/en/crime-kills-more-people-than-armed-conflicts-un-study-finds/a-49510578

    Crime kills more people than armed conflicts, UN study finds

    Far more people are killed in homicides around the world than in conflict zones, a sweeping UN study has found. The rate of women being killed due to domestic violence is also on the rise.

    Criminal activity is responsible for more deaths around the world than terror attacks and armed conflicts combined, according to a study published on Monday by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC).

    The sweeping study found that organized crime is one of the biggest drivers of homicides around the world, and that women are more often killed by their partners or family members.
    What are the main takeaways?

    - Some 464,000 people around the world were killed in homicides in 2017 — far more than the 89,000 people killed in armed conflicts that same year.

    - Organized crime was responsible for up to 19% of deaths worldwide.

    - Over 90% of suspects in homicide cases between 2014 and 2016 were men.

    - The number of women and girls killed due to domestic violence rose in 2017, accounting for 58% of
    all female homicide victims.

    - Europe has one of the lowest homicide rates in the world, with 3 victims per 100,000 people.

    https://www.dw.com/image/49514826_7.png

     

    , @SafeNow
    “blacks are more muscular and more aggressive”

    The biggest factor is that they hunt in packs. I have seen videos of a high school wrestler who easily shoots (pardon the wrestling expression) a takedown upon his larger black assailant. The problem is, a few seconds later, the wrestler is on the ground being kicked by the colleagues of the assailant. Unless you were the county track champ at 200 meters and are wearing your running shoes, the best strategy unfortunately is give a wide berth.
  44. @Boswald Bollocksworth
    Go ahead and get a лада if you like, but it’s simply a fact that Japanese cars, really Honda and Toyota, are the most reliable and well built. I would get a Honda Civic Si if I were you, if it’s available in Russia.

    The point of a Lada is that it is relatively cheap and now basically has Renault internals so is reasonably modern. The most visible modern car in Moscow/Spb is the Hyundai Solaris which is also what you usually get as the lowest cost option on yandex taxi. This corresponds to the Honda city which is a size smaller than the civic. Infact one does not find many Japanese cars on Russian roads mostly European and Korean.

    • Replies: @Mikhail

    In fact one does not find many Japanese cars on Russian roads mostly European and Korean.
     
    Is that so true in the Russian far-east when compared to St Pete and Moscow?
  45. Do mechanics use torque wrenches in Russia when they change the oil gaskets? If not, you might over-torque or under-torque the bolts, and the leaking persists. Are they aware of the recommended tightening pattern? Here in California, home to Mechanics Without Borders, the answer is often “no” (except at dealerships). A metaphor for the new “good enough” California proficiency standard.

  46. Anonymous[388] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon 2
    Rod Dreher, the indefatigable blogger at the American Conservative, famous for
    the book The Benedict Option (whose main thesis is that the United States is in
    a state of decline resembling the waning days of the Roman Empire, and therefore
    to preserve Christianity the Americans need to imitate St. Benedict and partly
    withdraw from the corrupting effects of the school system and the mass media
    by forming intentional communities that are similar to the Benedictine monasteries
    except that they would be designed for families) is currently in Poland
    researching his next book. I wonder if he is going to mention the unusually low
    levels of social dysfunction (murder, rape, abortion, divorce, drug addiction, etc)
    in Poland that has resulted in the Holy Poland meme. His posts and comments
    shed a lot of light on the situation in that country.

    Abuse. Including gratuitous ad homs, personal attacks, and/or slander against me or other commenters.

    Do AK’s rules of conduct apply to personal attacks on people who would never read his blog or UR?? Well, anyway…

    Rod Dreher is an effeminate, perfidious POS. A intellectual poseur with a journalism degree from LSU. LMFAO. This most this whiny little bitch could’ve hoped for in a truly merit-based world is to be the morning traffic reporter for a news station in Wheeling, West Virginia.

    https://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/rod-dreher-and-the-politics-of-betrayal/

    rod dreher and the politics of betrayal

    …The period following Charlottesville has also been marred by many attempts to score political points. Most have been at the expense of President Trump, whose election has never been accepted by many in the mainstream media, the entrenched bureaucracy, or the left. But some of these attacks hit closer to home. On Friday, Rod Dreher used his perch at The American Conservative to attack one of the men who founded that magazine, Pat Buchanan. Dreher charged that Buchanan’s column from the previous Tuesday, “If We Erase Our History, Who Are We?”, was a “shameful defense of white supremacy,” “abhorrent,” and “disgusting, racist, indefensible.” From Buchanan’s statement that the belief that all men are created equal is “ideological,” Dreher concluded that “Buchanan repudiates not only the founding principle of our Constitutional order, but also a core teaching of the Christian faith, which holds that all men are created in the image of God.” To bolster his attack, Dreher then cited a similar attack on Buchanan by neocon Mona Charen.

    Without Pat Buchanan, The American Conservative would not exist. Thus, Dreher’s attack on Buchanan is an example of treachery and ingratitude, as well as Dreher’s customary hysteria. (Charen is an ingrate too, since Buchanan helped her in the Reagan White house and after). It is also false: Buchanan’s column merely points out, as suggested by its title, that if Robert E. Lee must go, so too must many other central figures in American and Western history. This may shock Rod Dreher, but Christians from antiquity on did not deny any core teaching of the Church by accepting or even defending the feudal hierarchies that characterized their societies, including the hierarchy the Church defended against the egalitarianism of the French Revolution. It may shock Dreher even more to learn that the phrase “all men are created equal” appears nowhere in the United States Constitution, which actually is the foundation of “our Constitutional order.” As a respected conservative author wrote to me after Dreher’s attack, “What Pat was clearly saying is that if we are to wipe the Confederacy from the historical record, so should we erase all the previous history of the West.[Dreher’s] misreading of the column is plainly willful. He’s playing some sort of political game or another, but who really cares?”…

    …Like many pundits, Dreher paid no price for being spectacularly wrong about Iraq, because he knows how to play the game, a game that encourages both calculation (including calculated attacks on those to one’s right) and adherence to the ever-expanding rules of political correctness. I think we’d be better off changing the rules of the game to encourage frankness and courage. Sadly, Dreher’s attack is just another reminder that those rules are unlikely to change anytime soon. Until they do, the last word belongs to one of the online commenters on Dreher’s attack: “A prophet is not without honor, except at his own magazine.”

  47. @utu
    Could You Pass The Russian Gopnik Test?!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42DzIDtMJlY

    Great clip – still don’t know what the squatting is all about – perhaps some kind of holdover from Soviet times when everyone had to squat in the public stalls to find some relief? 🙂

    • Replies: @notanon
    wet ground

    kneel on one knee = kilt ancestry
    squat = pants ancestry

    ?
  48. @Mr. Hack

    "Our"
     
    ?...

    Meh, since Karlin started to refer to his fan club here as “faggots” maybe he has also started to refer to himself in the plural form? (JUST SAYING) 🙂

  49. @Mr. Hack
    Great clip - still don't know what the squatting is all about - perhaps some kind of holdover from Soviet times when everyone had to squat in the public stalls to find some relief? :-)

    wet ground

    kneel on one knee = kilt ancestry
    squat = pants ancestry

    ?

    • Replies: @notanon
    or maybe not

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlVNjAEa3Tw
  50. Anonymous[388] • Disclaimer says:
    @Priss Factor
    BAMMAMA and POTWB in London.

    Blacks are more muscular and more aggressive.

    Pussification of the White Boy.

    https://twitter.com/PrisonPlanet/status/1148245498630955016

    Apparently that mugging was in South Africa not London. But anyway…

    https://www.dw.com/en/crime-kills-more-people-than-armed-conflicts-un-study-finds/a-49510578

    Crime kills more people than armed conflicts, UN study finds

    Far more people are killed in homicides around the world than in conflict zones, a sweeping UN study has found. The rate of women being killed due to domestic violence is also on the rise.

    Criminal activity is responsible for more deaths around the world than terror attacks and armed conflicts combined, according to a study published on Monday by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC).

    The sweeping study found that organized crime is one of the biggest drivers of homicides around the world, and that women are more often killed by their partners or family members.
    What are the main takeaways?

    – Some 464,000 people around the world were killed in homicides in 2017 — far more than the 89,000 people killed in armed conflicts that same year.

    – Organized crime was responsible for up to 19% of deaths worldwide.

    – Over 90% of suspects in homicide cases between 2014 and 2016 were men.

    – The number of women and girls killed due to domestic violence rose in 2017, accounting for 58% of
    all female homicide victims.

    – Europe has one of the lowest homicide rates in the world, with 3 victims per 100,000 people.

  51. @Priss Factor
    BAMMAMA and POTWB in London.

    Blacks are more muscular and more aggressive.

    Pussification of the White Boy.

    https://twitter.com/PrisonPlanet/status/1148245498630955016

    “blacks are more muscular and more aggressive”

    The biggest factor is that they hunt in packs. I have seen videos of a high school wrestler who easily shoots (pardon the wrestling expression) a takedown upon his larger black assailant. The problem is, a few seconds later, the wrestler is on the ground being kicked by the colleagues of the assailant. Unless you were the county track champ at 200 meters and are wearing your running shoes, the best strategy unfortunately is give a wide berth.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    Young punks of all ethnic groups are bolder when in a group against one. On Long Island, some upper class white kids are prone to this, albeit nowhere near as violent as MS13. There's also the matter of MS13 wannabes as opposed to the real deal.
    , @Anonymous
    Meanwhile whites view other whites as the biggest threat.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/452024-trump-says-he-will-no-longer-deal-with-the-uks-ambassador-to-the-us

    Trump says he will 'no longer deal with' UK's ambassador to US

    President Trump on Monday said he would “no longer deal with” the U.K.’s ambassador to the U.S. after leaked cables revealed the diplomat’s blunt assessment of the Trump administration.

    In a pair of tweets, Trump bristled at Ambassador Kim Darroch’s description of him as “inept” and suggested a new British government could make changes...
     

    If I say I hate England will I violate AK’s rules of conduct again.

    Abuse. Including gratuitous ad homs, personal attacks, and/or slander against me or other commenters.
     
    Uh oh, by pointing this out did I violate another rule??

    Doxing
     
    I just outed him as a Brit citizen as well. But at least he’s not a deep cover MI6 operative.
    , @anon
    AND if HE runs away, don't think you've won; he's just gathering his homies to come back and kick your ass.
  52. @Priss Factor
    Turkey in trouble?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQKs8AsnSQg

    Their fertility rate is now 1.99 according to recently released stats. This masks a significant heterogeneity. TFR for kurds is far higher, for ‘ethnic’ Turks it is likely no more than 1.6-1.7.

    On top of that, Erdogan fired their central bank governor over the weekend and the lira has taken a drubbing today. The S-400 sale could potentially invite sanctions. India likely evaded such sanctions because India is too big and important in the chess game against China. Turkey isn’t.

    More fundamentally, Turkey’s growth model, to the extent there is one, has been built on cheap credit and a massive construction boom. This has meant running huge current account deficits which in turns has indebted their private sector. Getting indebted in foreign currency is not a good thing when running huge CADs because as your currency gets weaker, the cost of repaying those foreign-FX loans increases.

    There are also tensions within the country. Erdogan has had a very liberal immigration regime, so now there are millions of arabs roaming the streets of the country. Talks about imminent deportation remain hollow. The recent win of the secular opposition in major cities should not mask the fact that they have often been more strident on nationalism/ethnic identity than AKP, while being less religious in the process. I personally prefer AKP in power, because a weak Turkey is good for Europe. CHP, the secular opposition, can tap a lot of high IQ turks both at home and abroad, which makes them more formidable. They are also more likely to influence the EU given their secular nature and ease with Westerners. Finally, AKP in power exposes many turks living in Europe as a fifth column, which is good for our domestic politics.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Economic success of Turkey (until now), is still pretty interesting.

    They managed it without having significant significant (enough to export) oil and gas. At the same time, with a brown population.
  53. @notanon
    wet ground

    kneel on one knee = kilt ancestry
    squat = pants ancestry

    ?

    or maybe not

  54. @Boswald Bollocksworth
    Go ahead and get a лада if you like, but it’s simply a fact that Japanese cars, really Honda and Toyota, are the most reliable and well built. I would get a Honda Civic Si if I were you, if it’s available in Russia.

    I bought a 2000 Si new in the US. Two years later, it was stolen from my driveway and found off the Belt Parkway stripped. Insurance gave me 200 more than I paid. That car was rated the most stolen car. The rice boys and auto parts crooks love Civics, especially the Si.

    To avoid that happening again, I’ve had two Spec Vs (02 and 06). The quality control isn’t as good. Nissan took a down slide after its merger with Renault. When compared to the Civic Sis of that period and a few years after, the Spec Vs are known for having better torque. I noticed that right away. 0-60 times are quite overrated. 0-30 is a more practical speed gauge. The Civic Sis of that era needed to be highly revved to achieve their top times in the 0-60 range.

    The newest Si has a small under two litre engine, coupled with a turbo making a good deal of horsepower. With that makeup, and its being relatively new in the Honda line, I’d be concerned about the long term durability of that engine.

    Thinking about a V6 Accord stick in the future. Honda is said to make the best shifters.

    Toyotas are generally more reliable than Hondas. Hondas are generally more fun to drive. In terms of reliability, the now discontinued Grand Marquis, Lincoln Town Car and Crown Vic are good options.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Honda and Toyota/Lexus are the most reliable automobiles according to general consensus - but I never heard that Honda is behind Toyota.

    Grand Marquis, Lincoln Town Car and Crown Vic are good options.

     

    Older 1970s versions of these are beautiful

    What about the legendary "land yachts"
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJAvbThKKro

  55. @Vishnugupta
    The point of a Lada is that it is relatively cheap and now basically has Renault internals so is reasonably modern. The most visible modern car in Moscow/Spb is the Hyundai Solaris which is also what you usually get as the lowest cost option on yandex taxi. This corresponds to the Honda city which is a size smaller than the civic. Infact one does not find many Japanese cars on Russian roads mostly European and Korean.

    In fact one does not find many Japanese cars on Russian roads mostly European and Korean.

    Is that so true in the Russian far-east when compared to St Pete and Moscow?

    • Replies: @Vishnugupta
    I was told there is an active market in second hand Japanese cars in Russia's far east but I have not visited Russia's Far East.

    I do wonder exactly how a significant number of Japanese Right Hand drive cars would work in Left Hand drive Russia.

    But Japanese manufacturers seem relatively absent from Russia across all sectors.

    The Hyundai Solaris which is a popular car in Russia is sold as the Hyundai Verna in other markets like India,Thailand etc. where it faces stiff competition and usually looses to the Honda City.But Honda seems uninterested in the Russian market leaving Hyundai/Kia to corner the segment.
  56. Anonymous[221] • Disclaimer says:

    From “I have a dream” to “I lick ice cream”.

    • Replies: @DreadIlk
    This really going to take civilization down a level. Let in brown people next thing you are putting temper proof packaging for icecream. How much is that going to raise the price of food?
  57. @AP
    Poland: another country whiter than Russia and far whiter than wherever neutral lives. And will remain so.

    Sure, and France, the UK, and Sweden were ‘whiter’ than Russia for the vast majority of their history, that’s not the case anymore. But keep believing that a ruling class that’s heavily Americanized and integrated with the EU will somehow sustain a thousand year Polish ethnostate.

    • Replies: @AP

    But keep believing that a ruling class that’s heavily Americanized and integrated with the EU will somehow sustain a thousand year Polish ethnostate.
     
    I actually happen to know people from the Polish ruling class (relatives of elite politicians, living in the USA). They look upon what happened in Germany with madness and horror, and voted for Trump. That's the Polish ruling class.
  58. @SafeNow
    “blacks are more muscular and more aggressive”

    The biggest factor is that they hunt in packs. I have seen videos of a high school wrestler who easily shoots (pardon the wrestling expression) a takedown upon his larger black assailant. The problem is, a few seconds later, the wrestler is on the ground being kicked by the colleagues of the assailant. Unless you were the county track champ at 200 meters and are wearing your running shoes, the best strategy unfortunately is give a wide berth.

    Young punks of all ethnic groups are bolder when in a group against one. On Long Island, some upper class white kids are prone to this, albeit nowhere near as violent as MS13. There’s also the matter of MS13 wannabes as opposed to the real deal.

  59. AK

    I would be interested in hearing more about the effects of sanctions on Russia, who benefits, and which third party countries have benefited from being middlemen involved in sanctions evasion.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    I broadly covered this before, but sanctions don't affect everyday life to any significant extent (there has been a period of economic stagnation since 2014, but that was due more to the collapse in oil prices, and fiscal+monetary tightening).
  60. Anonymous[388] • Disclaimer says:
    @SafeNow
    “blacks are more muscular and more aggressive”

    The biggest factor is that they hunt in packs. I have seen videos of a high school wrestler who easily shoots (pardon the wrestling expression) a takedown upon his larger black assailant. The problem is, a few seconds later, the wrestler is on the ground being kicked by the colleagues of the assailant. Unless you were the county track champ at 200 meters and are wearing your running shoes, the best strategy unfortunately is give a wide berth.

    Meanwhile whites view other whites as the biggest threat.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/452024-trump-says-he-will-no-longer-deal-with-the-uks-ambassador-to-the-us

    Trump says he will ‘no longer deal with’ UK’s ambassador to US

    President Trump on Monday said he would “no longer deal with” the U.K.’s ambassador to the U.S. after leaked cables revealed the diplomat’s blunt assessment of the Trump administration.

    In a pair of tweets, Trump bristled at Ambassador Kim Darroch’s description of him as “inept” and suggested a new British government could make changes…

    If I say I hate England will I violate AK’s rules of conduct again.

    Abuse. Including gratuitous ad homs, personal attacks, and/or slander against me or other commenters.

    Uh oh, by pointing this out did I violate another rule??

    Doxing

    I just outed him as a Brit citizen as well. But at least he’s not a deep cover MI6 operative.

  61. @neutral
    You can't remain white if you are subservient to anti white regimes, there are no hypothetical scenarios where Poland will remain white while still brown nosing both the USA and EU. The future news stories have already written themselves, it will be about how the Polish values of tolerance, diversity and democracy have triumphed over the xenophobes that are opposing the ever increasing numbers of non whites entering Poland.

    Is there an all-white country you don’t hate, other than perhaps Belarus?

    Again, the stupidity of white nationalists never fails to amuse. Though the only ones I’ve encountered have been here.

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    , other than perhaps Belarus?
     
    I think white nationalists would be safe supporting Latvia, Estonia, Hungary, Croatia, Poland etc.

    Hungary, Latvia and Estonia, at least combine it with good economic policy, and Latvia and Estonia support things like gun owners' rights.

    But Belarus is probably a bad idea for white nationalists to support, if they look at some of the rich people there. Or that Lukashenko claims all his Prime Ministers are Jews, and the government promote Jewish culture days in the centre of Minsk.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQrBV6esLUA
    , @neutral
    Start with likes of Salvini and Orban and yes Putin, nobody is perfect, but at least they are not total arse licks to the USA. If you care more about getting a pat on the head from the USA, a very anti white regime, you are anti white.
  62. AP says:
    @Adam
    Sure, and France, the UK, and Sweden were 'whiter' than Russia for the vast majority of their history, that's not the case anymore. But keep believing that a ruling class that's heavily Americanized and integrated with the EU will somehow sustain a thousand year Polish ethnostate.

    But keep believing that a ruling class that’s heavily Americanized and integrated with the EU will somehow sustain a thousand year Polish ethnostate.

    I actually happen to know people from the Polish ruling class (relatives of elite politicians, living in the USA). They look upon what happened in Germany with madness and horror, and voted for Trump. That’s the Polish ruling class.

    • Replies: @Adam
    PiS politicians are not the totality of the Polish elite, there is a substantial neoliberal element too. Furthermore Polish youth are largely converging to western European norms (liberalism included). I really hope that there's some kind of paradigm shift in western Europe in the next couple decades, but otherwise a small country like Poland (or even the Visegrad group + Ukraine) simply does not have the resources to resist against the collective financial , political, and cultural power of the EU and the US which are utterly opposed to the existence of ethnic nation-states and traditional values.

    Just because some populists got elected does not mean the future of any nation is ensured. That kind of complacency is what allowed western states to be ruined gradually even though the majority of normal people were deeply opposed to demographic change and cultural revolution.

    , @Mr. XYZ
    Somewhat off-topic, but do you think that a different German Chancellor in 2015 would have still done what Merkel did in regards to letting a million largely Muslim migrants into Germany?
    , @DreadIlk
    Relatives living in the US is all you need to know about the elite.
  63. @The Big Red Scary
    I'm not an expert, but I think it's analogous to the difference between wiggers and rednecks. I've had mostly amicable interactions with both, so long as they aren't too drunkenly aggressive.

    Gopniks are the lumpenproletariat. Vatniks are Uralvagonzavod workers.

    • Replies: @LatW
    Gopniks have their own status ranking, too -- three stripes on the Adidas track suit indicates higher status. And a gold chain. Always nice to put on a brand new Adidas track suit and go to a friend's birthday party (or even a concert). :)
  64. @melanf

    Poll Shows Every Tenth Russian Has Been Tortured; Kremlin Skeptical
     
    As a resident of Russia, I am also extremely skeptical.

    Probably some trick with the "psychological torture" (the cop was rude to you - you are a victim of torture )

    I agree. I would find it credible if it was in the 2%-5% range.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    I agree. I would find it credible if it was in the 2%-5% range.
     
    A population of approximately 146 million. Approximately 80% of that Russian. So at approximately 5% the number of people tortured would be around... I figure... exactly 6 million!

    Yes, yes, 5% is the number. Any estimate less than 5% and you’re a Torturecaust denier!

  65. @Boswald Bollocksworth
    Go ahead and get a лада if you like, but it’s simply a fact that Japanese cars, really Honda and Toyota, are the most reliable and well built. I would get a Honda Civic Si if I were you, if it’s available in Russia.

    Getting a car not in the ~top 10 of popularity is not a good idea for people on a budget in principle because whatever marginal benefits in quality you get will be swamped by greater costs in mechanical servicing. But FWIW, I am currently pondering between the Lada Vesta and the Skoda Rapid. I’ll go testing tomorrow.

    • Replies: @g2k
    Your biggest costs will be purchase, insurance, fuel and whatever anti-car taxes the city authorities impose in the near future (if moscow is becoming as bobo as you claim). Servicing isn't that expensive. I'm not sure what the parts situation is like in Russia, but in England 'premium' marques have only slightly more expensive spares, as long as you're not dumb enough to go to main dealers for them. You'd need to get something seriously exotic before the premium becomes unaffordable (Ferrari etc, even Porsche parts aren't that bad) Mechanics' labor ought to be much cheaper over there as a fraction of a moscow professional's salary. Ever since mechanical ignition and carburetors were phased out in the early 90s car reliability has been a non-issue and fussing over it is a boomer pathology. If you want to buy a Lada out of patriotism, then go for it, but don't rationalise. An uaz jeep would be much cooler though.
  66. @Not Raul
    AK

    I would be interested in hearing more about the effects of sanctions on Russia, who benefits, and which third party countries have benefited from being middlemen involved in sanctions evasion.

    I broadly covered this before, but sanctions don’t affect everyday life to any significant extent (there has been a period of economic stagnation since 2014, but that was due more to the collapse in oil prices, and fiscal+monetary tightening).

    • Replies: @Not Raul
    Thanks. You guys already knew how to make good cheese. I’ve tasted some wonderful cheese from Sovetsk/Tilsit.

    I was wondering if the Marc Rich’s old associates have benefited from recent sanctions against Russia like they benefited from sanctions against African warlords, Apartheid-era South Africa, and Iran during the Iran-Iraq War.
  67. @AP

    But keep believing that a ruling class that’s heavily Americanized and integrated with the EU will somehow sustain a thousand year Polish ethnostate.
     
    I actually happen to know people from the Polish ruling class (relatives of elite politicians, living in the USA). They look upon what happened in Germany with madness and horror, and voted for Trump. That's the Polish ruling class.

    PiS politicians are not the totality of the Polish elite, there is a substantial neoliberal element too. Furthermore Polish youth are largely converging to western European norms (liberalism included). I really hope that there’s some kind of paradigm shift in western Europe in the next couple decades, but otherwise a small country like Poland (or even the Visegrad group + Ukraine) simply does not have the resources to resist against the collective financial , political, and cultural power of the EU and the US which are utterly opposed to the existence of ethnic nation-states and traditional values.

    Just because some populists got elected does not mean the future of any nation is ensured. That kind of complacency is what allowed western states to be ruined gradually even though the majority of normal people were deeply opposed to demographic change and cultural revolution.

    • Replies: @Beckow

    ...Polish youth are largely converging to western European norms (liberalism included).
     
    The liberal drift is something most societies experience among its better educated. The best thing that Poland (and V4) have going for them are the difficult languages.

    The most likely scenario is the migrants from Western Europe moving east and gradually taking over a few metropolitan areas. EU freedom of movement works both ways - and then they can start bringing in their tribal relatives from back home. This is extremely hard to stop, EU has no internal borders. In the long run it is impossible to be in a borderless super-state (like EU or US) without being impacted by the migrants.

    Most people live mentally in the past, they see EU for what it once was. Or West in general. Most people will also trade small personal benefit for an eventual destruction of their society. Brussels has incentives, the populists are by definition isolated within each nation. This will be an uphill struggle and Poland might last longer than most, but at the end what difference will that make?

    , @AP

    PiS politicians are not the totality of the Polish elite, there is a substantial neoliberal element too.
     
    Even those are more skeptical of migrants than are Westerners. PiS wanted and got no refugees, its rivals were willing to accept a very small number. Here is Poland's neoliberal party:

    https://www.politico.eu/article/politics-nationalism-and-religion-explain-why-poland-doesnt-want-refugees/

    Grzegorz Schetyna, the leader of Civic Platform, first told a reporter that his party was against accepting refugees — something of a problem since it was the previous Civic Platform government (in which Schetyna served as foreign minister) that agreed to accept 6,200 asylum seekers from the EU pool.

    Within days Schetyna scrambled back, saying Civic Platform was against “illegal migrants” but that he favored accepting “the few dozen people who want to come to Poland.”

    :::::

    So that's the difference. Zero refugees vs. a small symbolic amount, most of whom will just move to Germany where incomes and benefits are higher, once they get their EU papers.

    Furthermore Polish youth are largely converging to western European norms (liberalism included).
     
    They seem to be getting more Czech-like - more secular and less homophobic, yet solidly anti-migrant.

    otherwise a small country like Poland (or even the Visegrad group + Ukraine) simply does not have the resources to resist against the collective financial , political, and cultural power of the EU and the US which are utterly opposed to the existence of ethnic nation-states and traditional values.
     
    West is not monolithically pro-migration (look at Trump and Italy) and can't force anything on little Hungary, let alone the 100+ million in Visegrad + Ukraine.
    , @notanon

    That kind of complacency is what allowed western states to be ruined gradually even though the majority of normal people were deeply opposed to demographic change and cultural revolution.
     
    the biggest factor (imo) is television especially children's.

    places where populists still have a chance need to set up their own TV station* and produce their own non-pozzed children's entertainment**.

    * alternatively have a state funded TV station (like the BBC) but with *elected* commissioners who decide on what is allowed.

    ** or at least choose what is allowed to be shown, like old disney is fine.

    Polish youth are largely converging to western European norms (liberalism included)
     
    the foundation of pozworld is the blank slate ideology - funding research into genetics is the best way to undermine it.

    the truth leverages itself so even small countries or blocs with limited resources can take on big lies.
  68. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    Dreher might mean well, but I don't really take him seriously. He is very "blue-pilled" when it comes to women and a bunch of other issues. The blogger Dalrock has an entire tag dedicated to condemning Dreher's kowtowing to the Duluth Model of complementarian subversion of Christian churches. What right-wing Christian men need now is to learn to be men, but they aren't gonna get that from Dreher's playing footsy with whiny "Christian" quasi-feminist women.

    Dreher said he always felt less than accepted by his father, for one thing because he didn't enjoy hunting and fishing like all the other rednecks in Louisiana.

    Dreher is therefore a perfect example that men should, in fact, learn to enjoy hunting and fishing. Otherwise they'll be a bit of a sissy.

    I kid, I kid.

    John, I think that you are one of the more confused commenters here at Unz.

  69. Anonymous[388] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    I agree. I would find it credible if it was in the 2%-5% range.

    I agree. I would find it credible if it was in the 2%-5% range.

    A population of approximately 146 million. Approximately 80% of that Russian. So at approximately 5% the number of people tortured would be around… I figure… exactly 6 million!

    Yes, yes, 5% is the number. Any estimate less than 5% and you’re a Torturecaust denier!

  70. @Adam
    PiS politicians are not the totality of the Polish elite, there is a substantial neoliberal element too. Furthermore Polish youth are largely converging to western European norms (liberalism included). I really hope that there's some kind of paradigm shift in western Europe in the next couple decades, but otherwise a small country like Poland (or even the Visegrad group + Ukraine) simply does not have the resources to resist against the collective financial , political, and cultural power of the EU and the US which are utterly opposed to the existence of ethnic nation-states and traditional values.

    Just because some populists got elected does not mean the future of any nation is ensured. That kind of complacency is what allowed western states to be ruined gradually even though the majority of normal people were deeply opposed to demographic change and cultural revolution.

    …Polish youth are largely converging to western European norms (liberalism included).

    The liberal drift is something most societies experience among its better educated. The best thing that Poland (and V4) have going for them are the difficult languages.

    The most likely scenario is the migrants from Western Europe moving east and gradually taking over a few metropolitan areas. EU freedom of movement works both ways – and then they can start bringing in their tribal relatives from back home. This is extremely hard to stop, EU has no internal borders. In the long run it is impossible to be in a borderless super-state (like EU or US) without being impacted by the migrants.

    Most people live mentally in the past, they see EU for what it once was. Or West in general. Most people will also trade small personal benefit for an eventual destruction of their society. Brussels has incentives, the populists are by definition isolated within each nation. This will be an uphill struggle and Poland might last longer than most, but at the end what difference will that make?

    • Agree: Adam
    • Replies: @AP

    The most likely scenario is the migrants from Western Europe moving east and gradually taking over a few metropolitan areas.
     
    Yes, in your mind it is very likely that migrants will move from richer countries with generous benefits to poorer ones with almost no benefits. Even though they haven't started doing that after several years already, and indeed do the opposite (Poland hasn't taken any migrants but the Baltics took a few hundred; almost all of them moved freely to the Western EU as soon as they got their papers).
  71. now this is the level of craziness i expect from democrat cat ladies posting in new york times comment sections. bravo, ladies. you didn’t let me down.

    TRUMP IS IN THE CENTER OF IT ALL!

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Where is Dugin and Dick Spencer?? Low energy!
  72. @Anatoly Karlin
    I broadly covered this before, but sanctions don't affect everyday life to any significant extent (there has been a period of economic stagnation since 2014, but that was due more to the collapse in oil prices, and fiscal+monetary tightening).

    Thanks. You guys already knew how to make good cheese. I’ve tasted some wonderful cheese from Sovetsk/Tilsit.

    I was wondering if the Marc Rich’s old associates have benefited from recent sanctions against Russia like they benefited from sanctions against African warlords, Apartheid-era South Africa, and Iran during the Iran-Iraq War.

  73. Two things:

    1)FAREED ZAKARIA….GO BACK TO THE TOILET BOWL INDIA….GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY COUNTRY!!!!

    2)BRING HOME THE TROOPS NOW!!!!

    Well, that’s about it for the time being folks.

    Not quite…..Was the Jesuit Priest Father Edmond Aloysious Walsh the head of a SECRET CABAL OF HOMOSEXUAL PEDERASTS who met late a night at Comet Pizza to plot the destruction of Russia on behalf of the Anglo-Zionist Empire from HELL?

    • Replies: @BengaliCanadianDude

    1)FAREED ZAKARIA….GO BACK TO THE TOILET BOWL INDIA….GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY COUNTRY!!!!
     
    It's not your country lol and you have no say in the matter
  74. @AP

    But keep believing that a ruling class that’s heavily Americanized and integrated with the EU will somehow sustain a thousand year Polish ethnostate.
     
    I actually happen to know people from the Polish ruling class (relatives of elite politicians, living in the USA). They look upon what happened in Germany with madness and horror, and voted for Trump. That's the Polish ruling class.

    Somewhat off-topic, but do you think that a different German Chancellor in 2015 would have still done what Merkel did in regards to letting a million largely Muslim migrants into Germany?

    • Replies: @LondonBob
    Probably, just a product of the political elite's ideology. Merkel admitting those immigrants was thought as the best means to boost the moribund EU economy. This might seems nuts to us but that is what they think.
    , @Thorfinnsson
    Merkel made a snap decision to admit them, overruling the Interior Minister, because she heard television crews were going to film the police shutting down the border invasion.

    Seems highly likely another German Chancellor would not have made the same blunder, especially since it violated the Dublin Convention and thus undermined Germany's entire EU strategy.
  75. @Curious
    Their fertility rate is now 1.99 according to recently released stats. This masks a significant heterogeneity. TFR for kurds is far higher, for 'ethnic' Turks it is likely no more than 1.6-1.7.

    On top of that, Erdogan fired their central bank governor over the weekend and the lira has taken a drubbing today. The S-400 sale could potentially invite sanctions. India likely evaded such sanctions because India is too big and important in the chess game against China. Turkey isn't.

    More fundamentally, Turkey's growth model, to the extent there is one, has been built on cheap credit and a massive construction boom. This has meant running huge current account deficits which in turns has indebted their private sector. Getting indebted in foreign currency is not a good thing when running huge CADs because as your currency gets weaker, the cost of repaying those foreign-FX loans increases.

    There are also tensions within the country. Erdogan has had a very liberal immigration regime, so now there are millions of arabs roaming the streets of the country. Talks about imminent deportation remain hollow. The recent win of the secular opposition in major cities should not mask the fact that they have often been more strident on nationalism/ethnic identity than AKP, while being less religious in the process. I personally prefer AKP in power, because a weak Turkey is good for Europe. CHP, the secular opposition, can tap a lot of high IQ turks both at home and abroad, which makes them more formidable. They are also more likely to influence the EU given their secular nature and ease with Westerners. Finally, AKP in power exposes many turks living in Europe as a fifth column, which is good for our domestic politics.

    Economic success of Turkey (until now), is still pretty interesting.

    They managed it without having significant significant (enough to export) oil and gas. At the same time, with a brown population.

    • Replies: @notanon
    the banking mafia off-shored western industry to various countries (China, Turkey, Brazil etc) which created the illusion those countries were doing well.

    the subsequent drop in demand in the west due to the loss of those jobs is why the globalist system is now crumbling and why the "emerging markets" are all going under (except high IQ China) - cos it was never indigenous, all external.

    (China was originally external i.e. off-shoring but they had the brains to build on that foundation.)
  76. @AP
    Is there an all-white country you don't hate, other than perhaps Belarus?

    Again, the stupidity of white nationalists never fails to amuse. Though the only ones I've encountered have been here.

    , other than perhaps Belarus?

    I think white nationalists would be safe supporting Latvia, Estonia, Hungary, Croatia, Poland etc.

    Hungary, Latvia and Estonia, at least combine it with good economic policy, and Latvia and Estonia support things like gun owners’ rights.

    But Belarus is probably a bad idea for white nationalists to support, if they look at some of the rich people there. Or that Lukashenko claims all his Prime Ministers are Jews, and the government promote Jewish culture days in the centre of Minsk.

    • Replies: @AP

    I think white nationalists would be safe supporting Latvia, Estonia, Hungary, Croatia, Poland etc.
     
    Neutral hates them because they are all NATO members.

    But Belarus is probably a bad idea for white nationalists to support, if they look at some of the rich people there. Or that Lukashenko claims all his Prime Ministers are Jews, and the government promote Jewish culture days in the centre of Minsk.
     
    So the white nationalist neutral, must hate every all-white country on the planet, lol.
  77. AP says:
    @Dmitry

    , other than perhaps Belarus?
     
    I think white nationalists would be safe supporting Latvia, Estonia, Hungary, Croatia, Poland etc.

    Hungary, Latvia and Estonia, at least combine it with good economic policy, and Latvia and Estonia support things like gun owners' rights.

    But Belarus is probably a bad idea for white nationalists to support, if they look at some of the rich people there. Or that Lukashenko claims all his Prime Ministers are Jews, and the government promote Jewish culture days in the centre of Minsk.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQrBV6esLUA

    I think white nationalists would be safe supporting Latvia, Estonia, Hungary, Croatia, Poland etc.

    Neutral hates them because they are all NATO members.

    But Belarus is probably a bad idea for white nationalists to support, if they look at some of the rich people there. Or that Lukashenko claims all his Prime Ministers are Jews, and the government promote Jewish culture days in the centre of Minsk.

    So the white nationalist neutral, must hate every all-white country on the planet, lol.

    • Replies: @Adam
    In your mind a white nationalist should judge countries entirely by present demographics to the total exclusion of other factors and future trends?

    Several people have given coherent arguments for why Poland and other BASTE countries are actually in a very precarious situation, but I guess we should all just trust in Hetman AP von Habsburg's szlachta informers that Poland will remain a 99% white conservative country for all eternity.
    , @Mr. XYZ

    So the white nationalist neutral, must hate every all-white country on the planet, lol.
     
    Poland only became (almost) all-white due to the Holocaust, though. Ditto for some other Eastern European countries, such as Latvia and Lithuania.

    Historically, Poland was more Semitic than Western Europe currently is. Of course, quality does matter.

  78. @Mikhail
    I bought a 2000 Si new in the US. Two years later, it was stolen from my driveway and found off the Belt Parkway stripped. Insurance gave me 200 more than I paid. That car was rated the most stolen car. The rice boys and auto parts crooks love Civics, especially the Si.

    To avoid that happening again, I've had two Spec Vs (02 and 06). The quality control isn't as good. Nissan took a down slide after its merger with Renault. When compared to the Civic Sis of that period and a few years after, the Spec Vs are known for having better torque. I noticed that right away. 0-60 times are quite overrated. 0-30 is a more practical speed gauge. The Civic Sis of that era needed to be highly revved to achieve their top times in the 0-60 range.

    The newest Si has a small under two litre engine, coupled with a turbo making a good deal of horsepower. With that makeup, and its being relatively new in the Honda line, I'd be concerned about the long term durability of that engine.

    Thinking about a V6 Accord stick in the future. Honda is said to make the best shifters.

    Toyotas are generally more reliable than Hondas. Hondas are generally more fun to drive. In terms of reliability, the now discontinued Grand Marquis, Lincoln Town Car and Crown Vic are good options.

    Honda and Toyota/Lexus are the most reliable automobiles according to general consensus – but I never heard that Honda is behind Toyota.

    Grand Marquis, Lincoln Town Car and Crown Vic are good options.

    Older 1970s versions of these are beautiful

    What about the legendary “land yachts”

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    In terms of repair record (long term trouble free durability) Toyota is in overall terms ahead of Honda. Not that Honda is bad. It runs a strong number two.

    It all gets down to what you're looking for. A US car magazine rated the Nissan Altima ahead of the Toyota Camry in the categories of style, comfort and performance. Long term durability wise, the Altima will likely have more problems. Darn shame what happened to Nissan.

    Yeah, those 1970s boats were something. Upgraded with some modern technology and they're great for the present. Car chase scenes from that period (like in the CBS aired Hawaii Five O) glaringly reveal the bouncing (when cornering) no longer as evident with modern luxury cars.

    As for the modern day versions, never buy a Crown Vic or Lincoln Town Car from the police or cabbies. They love them to death. Specifically, if they're willing to sell them, you can be sure that such cars are toast.

    A lot of old folks prefer these cars - Grand Marquis included. Best to buy from them. In the US, there're mechanics who specialize in inspecting a used car for a prospective buyer. For $100 dollars or so, they run a full computer scan, along with checking for body work, any evidence of a flooded car, frame damage and leaks.

    My bro got a great deal on a 2000 Toyota Avalon XLS (stretched out Camry).

  79. @Dmitry
    Honda and Toyota/Lexus are the most reliable automobiles according to general consensus - but I never heard that Honda is behind Toyota.

    Grand Marquis, Lincoln Town Car and Crown Vic are good options.

     

    Older 1970s versions of these are beautiful

    What about the legendary "land yachts"
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJAvbThKKro

    In terms of repair record (long term trouble free durability) Toyota is in overall terms ahead of Honda. Not that Honda is bad. It runs a strong number two.

    It all gets down to what you’re looking for. A US car magazine rated the Nissan Altima ahead of the Toyota Camry in the categories of style, comfort and performance. Long term durability wise, the Altima will likely have more problems. Darn shame what happened to Nissan.

    Yeah, those 1970s boats were something. Upgraded with some modern technology and they’re great for the present. Car chase scenes from that period (like in the CBS aired Hawaii Five O) glaringly reveal the bouncing (when cornering) no longer as evident with modern luxury cars.

    As for the modern day versions, never buy a Crown Vic or Lincoln Town Car from the police or cabbies. They love them to death. Specifically, if they’re willing to sell them, you can be sure that such cars are toast.

    A lot of old folks prefer these cars – Grand Marquis included. Best to buy from them. In the US, there’re mechanics who specialize in inspecting a used car for a prospective buyer. For $100 dollars or so, they run a full computer scan, along with checking for body work, any evidence of a flooded car, frame damage and leaks.

    My bro got a great deal on a 2000 Toyota Avalon XLS (stretched out Camry).

  80. Adam says:
    @AP

    I think white nationalists would be safe supporting Latvia, Estonia, Hungary, Croatia, Poland etc.
     
    Neutral hates them because they are all NATO members.

    But Belarus is probably a bad idea for white nationalists to support, if they look at some of the rich people there. Or that Lukashenko claims all his Prime Ministers are Jews, and the government promote Jewish culture days in the centre of Minsk.
     
    So the white nationalist neutral, must hate every all-white country on the planet, lol.

    In your mind a white nationalist should judge countries entirely by present demographics to the total exclusion of other factors and future trends?

    Several people have given coherent arguments for why Poland and other BASTE countries are actually in a very precarious situation, but I guess we should all just trust in Hetman AP von Habsburg’s szlachta informers that Poland will remain a 99% white conservative country for all eternity.

    • Replies: @AP

    In your mind a white nationalist should judge countries entirely by present demographics to the total exclusion of other factors and future trends?
     
    I just think it's funny that a white nationalist should hate every all-white country on the planet. I guess white nationalists really are that stupid?

    Several people have given coherent arguments for why Poland and other BASTE countries are actually in a very precarious situation
     
    You think those arguments are coherent? Here are the ones I've read here:

    1. Most of the all-white countries belong to NATO. There are a few hundred African-American troops there. Somehow this means all the local women will have so many babies with those soldiers that the countries will stop being white sometime.

    2. Most of those all-white countries belong to the EU, which has open borders and in which the Western countries are full of migrants. EU itself was 2% Muslim in 2015, but this number is a lot higher now. Perhaps 4% or even 5%. Somehow a lot of Muslims, already living in rich and generous countries like Germany or France, will move to poorer Poland, Latvia etc. where they get much less benefits and have no local community to support them. They will do this why? And years after the migrants came to western Europe they haven't done this. Indeed almost all of the few hundred who were settled in the Baltics (they were barred from Poland) left for Germany. *

    "Of 349 asylum seekers taken in by Lithuania, 248 left as soon as they had received official refugee status, according to Robertas Mikulenas, director of a reception centre in Rukla, a small Lithuanian town."

    "So far 317 refugees allocated to Latvia have arrived in the country, but no office has records of their whereabouts. The fact that none are using the mentoring services available to those with official refugee status suggests they have left.

    In Estonia the situation is similar: of the 136 who arrived on the EU programme, 79 have moved elsewhere in Europe. Refugees in Estonia receive €130 a month.

    Once granted asylum, a refugee can travel freely within the EU and join friends and family in Western Europe - and the Baltic countries have fulfilled their obligations under the EU quota scheme."

    3. Russia is somehow the better alternative. Even though it has more Muslims than the EU (it is as Muslim as the most Muslim EU countries such as France) and is actually in the Eurasian Union with Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan (there are no Muslim countries in the EU).

    Those are very coherent arguments as for why, for white nationalists, actual all-white countries are so terrible.

    *Full article:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40479224

    'They don't give us anything'
    He only learnt he was going to Latvia a day before his flight. He was not allowed to choose the destination himself, and was not happy about it.

    "There are lots of Eritreans everywhere in Europe. They talk to one another. We all know that in Germany they give you an apartment and €400 (£350; $450) pocket money. But in Latvia they don't give us anything - just €139 a month," he told BBC Russian.

    In Riga it is hard to find a one-room flat to rent for that money. But there are no plans to increase benefits.

    "Those are our allowances and we can't afford to pay people more - we aren't that kind of country," said Ainars Latkovskis, head of the Parliamentary Commission for Internal Affairs.

    "They can of course look for work. But by Latvian law you have to speak the language to get a proper job and it usually takes years to learn," he said.

    Mekharena says it is the low living standard that makes refugees leave Latvia as soon as they get their papers. He knows many asylum seekers who have done exactly that.

    "Most of them couldn't survive here. They can't accept the difference [between incomes in Latvia and Germany]. Lots of them borrowed money to get to Europe and they need to pay it back," said Mekharena. He himself paid people smugglers $3,000.

    Of 349 asylum seekers taken in by Lithuania, 248 left as soon as they had received official refugee status, according to Robertas Mikulenas, director of a reception centre in Rukla, a small Lithuanian town.

    Benefits for refugees in Lithuania vary from €102 to €204 a month.

    So far 317 refugees allocated to Latvia have arrived in the country, but no office has records of their whereabouts. The fact that none are using the mentoring services available to those with official refugee status suggests they have left.

    In Estonia the situation is similar: of the 136 who arrived on the EU programme, 79 have moved elsewhere in Europe. Refugees in Estonia receive €130 a month.

    Once granted asylum, a refugee can travel freely within the EU and join friends and family in Western Europe - and the Baltic countries have fulfilled their obligations under the EU quota scheme.

    , @LatW

    Several people have given coherent arguments for why Poland and other BASTE countries are actually in a very precarious situation,
     
    While I do agree that the Intermarium countries are not entirely safe and certain measures should be taken immediately, the "arguments" that you guys have given are not all that coherent and lack in real life detail.

    A typical mistake you guys make is projecting America's situation on the EE. America is in a very peculiar situation where technically immigrating to the US is quite hard, yet at the same time there is a certain anarchic attitude about it and there are immigrants coming all the time. FOB Indian families, Chinese students, etc. Education programs, churches, immigrant social networks, NGOs, etc. These aren't really present in EE, nobody's gonna build them there, there are simply no resources for that and the interest is minimal. Also, Intermarium states, regardless of their difficult histories, are basically ethnostates, the ethnostate centered ideology has not yet been switched to the multiculturalist one. Also, PC'ism is much much worse in the US, there is hardly any in EE, the public discourse, despite of the polarization of society between conservatives and liberals, is nowhere near as PC. Nowhere near and possibly never will be. Another difference is that American nationalists are oppressed, while in Intermarium they form small factions in the government.

    E.Europeans have also been colonized from both sides, so their sense of foreign influence is a little more acute. Colonial powers tend to have a certain grandeur, a generosity of the soul, a certain assimilating tendency, that is evident for instance when the French say - everyone in France is French, or some English feel that they can take care of others because they are so rich and it's "the right thing to do", E.Europeans lack this. They can be quite stingy even towards each other. The typical thinking is that nothing should come for free. I'm not saying this can't change, it's just there are important nuances there, that you as an American do not know of.

    I agree with Beckow that we entered the EU with the thought of entering as ethnostates to join other ethnostates, and that there might have been some miscommunication there - we thought of "diversity" as ethnic and linguistic diversity, not world citizenship. It is a bit awkward but we can still argue that rules where changed in the middle of the game - this is not really what we signed up for. Thus rules need to be renegotiated and there are already calls to do that. Europe is not what it was in 2004. The EU is not a federation, countries have rights and things can still be discussed.

    It may not be NATO membership that will decide the demographics - Poland has been in NATO for 20 years and all those years it had outmigration, but it took just a couple of years of steady 4% growth for third country migrants to appear. (Also, NATO itself needs to be renegotiated, from a political to defense alliance, so that Poland could be like Turkey - an ally but with its own culture).

    The actual workforce needs on the ground right now are more important than the "Western ideology". Many businesses (both local as well as investors) are screaming for labor. Should they be given all they want? No. But the needs of at least the local businesses (foreign investors is a separate story), should be addressed. This is currently being addressed by the large influx of Eastern Slavs into the Intermarium countries. Yes, that includes not only Ukrainians, but even Northern Russians! This alleviates the labor shortage and a potential recession could alleviate things even more.

    The current migrant profile looks something like this: mostly re-patriating Poles, Estonians, etc., relatively small chunk, but it's there; a relatively large chunk of Eastern Slavs who either stay or rotate, and a third group, "Others". This is larger in Poland and Czech Rep, I imagine, and minuscule or practically non-existent in the Baltics (but it has appeared, alarmingly, although it's hard to say how many of them are tourists or transients into the West). Most of those are also workers and not welfare migrants because EE politicians deliberately keep those welfare payments small (Latvian nationalists in fact made sure the payments to migrants are reduced and the politicians care more about building a large concert hall than taking care of the migrants). The key would be to source repatriants as well as Slavs, so that there would be no space left for anyone else. According to some data, 30% of EE migrants in the West want to return home, if we succeeded in repatriating them it could be hundreds of thousands of people.

    Oh, and there is another tiny immigrant group - Germanic husbands. :) Very nice, hard working, cute with flaxen hair, potentially easy to assimilate eventually.

    Btw, another mistake of yours is the perception that the threat is from the West - and while I don't disagree that in the future, even in the near future, it is a potential threat, currently the majority of third country migrants arrive from Russia, via the Northern route.

    So, yea, what matters is not some ideological slogans, but how the situation will be handled on the ground. All in all, EE is very homogeneous and very pleasant, with visibly rising living standards to top it off.
  81. @AP

    I think white nationalists would be safe supporting Latvia, Estonia, Hungary, Croatia, Poland etc.
     
    Neutral hates them because they are all NATO members.

    But Belarus is probably a bad idea for white nationalists to support, if they look at some of the rich people there. Or that Lukashenko claims all his Prime Ministers are Jews, and the government promote Jewish culture days in the centre of Minsk.
     
    So the white nationalist neutral, must hate every all-white country on the planet, lol.

    So the white nationalist neutral, must hate every all-white country on the planet, lol.

    Poland only became (almost) all-white due to the Holocaust, though. Ditto for some other Eastern European countries, such as Latvia and Lithuania.

    Historically, Poland was more Semitic than Western Europe currently is. Of course, quality does matter.

  82. AP says:
    @Adam
    In your mind a white nationalist should judge countries entirely by present demographics to the total exclusion of other factors and future trends?

    Several people have given coherent arguments for why Poland and other BASTE countries are actually in a very precarious situation, but I guess we should all just trust in Hetman AP von Habsburg's szlachta informers that Poland will remain a 99% white conservative country for all eternity.

    In your mind a white nationalist should judge countries entirely by present demographics to the total exclusion of other factors and future trends?

    I just think it’s funny that a white nationalist should hate every all-white country on the planet. I guess white nationalists really are that stupid?

    Several people have given coherent arguments for why Poland and other BASTE countries are actually in a very precarious situation

    You think those arguments are coherent? Here are the ones I’ve read here:

    1. Most of the all-white countries belong to NATO. There are a few hundred African-American troops there. Somehow this means all the local women will have so many babies with those soldiers that the countries will stop being white sometime.

    2. Most of those all-white countries belong to the EU, which has open borders and in which the Western countries are full of migrants. EU itself was 2% Muslim in 2015, but this number is a lot higher now. Perhaps 4% or even 5%. Somehow a lot of Muslims, already living in rich and generous countries like Germany or France, will move to poorer Poland, Latvia etc. where they get much less benefits and have no local community to support them. They will do this why? And years after the migrants came to western Europe they haven’t done this. Indeed almost all of the few hundred who were settled in the Baltics (they were barred from Poland) left for Germany. *

    “Of 349 asylum seekers taken in by Lithuania, 248 left as soon as they had received official refugee status, according to Robertas Mikulenas, director of a reception centre in Rukla, a small Lithuanian town.”

    “So far 317 refugees allocated to Latvia have arrived in the country, but no office has records of their whereabouts. The fact that none are using the mentoring services available to those with official refugee status suggests they have left.

    In Estonia the situation is similar: of the 136 who arrived on the EU programme, 79 have moved elsewhere in Europe. Refugees in Estonia receive €130 a month.

    Once granted asylum, a refugee can travel freely within the EU and join friends and family in Western Europe – and the Baltic countries have fulfilled their obligations under the EU quota scheme.”

    3. Russia is somehow the better alternative. Even though it has more Muslims than the EU (it is as Muslim as the most Muslim EU countries such as France) and is actually in the Eurasian Union with Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan (there are no Muslim countries in the EU).

    Those are very coherent arguments as for why, for white nationalists, actual all-white countries are so terrible.

    *Full article:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40479224

    [MORE]

    ‘They don’t give us anything’
    He only learnt he was going to Latvia a day before his flight. He was not allowed to choose the destination himself, and was not happy about it.

    “There are lots of Eritreans everywhere in Europe. They talk to one another. We all know that in Germany they give you an apartment and €400 (£350; $450) pocket money. But in Latvia they don’t give us anything – just €139 a month,” he told BBC Russian.

    In Riga it is hard to find a one-room flat to rent for that money. But there are no plans to increase benefits.

    “Those are our allowances and we can’t afford to pay people more – we aren’t that kind of country,” said Ainars Latkovskis, head of the Parliamentary Commission for Internal Affairs.

    “They can of course look for work. But by Latvian law you have to speak the language to get a proper job and it usually takes years to learn,” he said.

    Mekharena says it is the low living standard that makes refugees leave Latvia as soon as they get their papers. He knows many asylum seekers who have done exactly that.

    “Most of them couldn’t survive here. They can’t accept the difference [between incomes in Latvia and Germany]. Lots of them borrowed money to get to Europe and they need to pay it back,” said Mekharena. He himself paid people smugglers $3,000.

    Of 349 asylum seekers taken in by Lithuania, 248 left as soon as they had received official refugee status, according to Robertas Mikulenas, director of a reception centre in Rukla, a small Lithuanian town.

    Benefits for refugees in Lithuania vary from €102 to €204 a month.

    So far 317 refugees allocated to Latvia have arrived in the country, but no office has records of their whereabouts. The fact that none are using the mentoring services available to those with official refugee status suggests they have left.

    In Estonia the situation is similar: of the 136 who arrived on the EU programme, 79 have moved elsewhere in Europe. Refugees in Estonia receive €130 a month.

    Once granted asylum, a refugee can travel freely within the EU and join friends and family in Western Europe – and the Baltic countries have fulfilled their obligations under the EU quota scheme.

    • Replies: @Adam

     EU itself was 2% Muslim in 2015, but this number is a lot higher now. Perhaps 4% or even 5%
     
    It doubled in less than 5 years and that isn't concerning to you? A huge percentage of the white population is past reproductive age and young people have much lower fertility than the migrants, who continue to come and won't stop. Furthermore, Africans and other problematic non-Muslim immigrants are just a much a threat as the Muslims.

    They will do this why
     
    Because in 10-20 years Poland will be much richer and more liberal while the western countries will rapidly decline in their ability to support more parasites. Try as hard as you possibly can to understand the concept that things change over time and the situation will be different in the future.

    Russia is somehow the better alternative
     
    The majority of Russian Muslims are Tatars and Bashkirs who are completely civilized and secular. More importantly, Russia puts absolutely no pressure on their sphere to accept Chechens or Kazahks. Compared to the US and EU which are ideologically committed to destroying homogenous nation states in Europe. On this issue Russia is absolutely superior from the perspective of Europeans.
  83. AP says:
    @Beckow

    ...Polish youth are largely converging to western European norms (liberalism included).
     
    The liberal drift is something most societies experience among its better educated. The best thing that Poland (and V4) have going for them are the difficult languages.

    The most likely scenario is the migrants from Western Europe moving east and gradually taking over a few metropolitan areas. EU freedom of movement works both ways - and then they can start bringing in their tribal relatives from back home. This is extremely hard to stop, EU has no internal borders. In the long run it is impossible to be in a borderless super-state (like EU or US) without being impacted by the migrants.

    Most people live mentally in the past, they see EU for what it once was. Or West in general. Most people will also trade small personal benefit for an eventual destruction of their society. Brussels has incentives, the populists are by definition isolated within each nation. This will be an uphill struggle and Poland might last longer than most, but at the end what difference will that make?

    The most likely scenario is the migrants from Western Europe moving east and gradually taking over a few metropolitan areas.

    Yes, in your mind it is very likely that migrants will move from richer countries with generous benefits to poorer ones with almost no benefits. Even though they haven’t started doing that after several years already, and indeed do the opposite (Poland hasn’t taken any migrants but the Baltics took a few hundred; almost all of them moved freely to the Western EU as soon as they got their papers).

    • Replies: @Beckow

    from richer countries with generous benefits to poorer ones with almost no benefits.
     
    Visegrad countries are richer than parts of the West overrun by migrants. They also have great benefits by any standards (well, maybe Poland doesn't, their benefits are marching around woods scaring themselves silly).

    You are also comparing current situation to the future, the relative attractiveness of V4 is growing. Even today Prague and Bratislava are in the top 10 EU regions in GNP/capita.

    For almost anyone among the 5 billion potential migrants in the Third World, V4 would be a paradise. They go to UK-Germany-France-Sweden because of languages and already existing tribal networks - and because those countries are run by liberal morons. Brussels wants to spread it, and last time I checked they were the ones making the rules.
    , @notanon

    in your mind it is very likely that migrants will move from richer countries with generous benefits to poorer ones with almost no benefits
     
    one of the main vectors is illegal immigrants working in ethnic restaurants.

    they are trafficked by the owners and stay because their extremely low pay is still higher than what they can earn in their home countries and eventually neolib traitors create amnesties for them which then leads to family migration etc.

    also a key point here is whether or not globalists want to either a) get rid of white people specifically or b) simply maximize divide and rule.

    either way it means they will actively encourage immigration e.g. resettling refugees in rural towns like in the states.

    also women - which is a bigger part of this than usually mentioned. a lot of the worst countries have a large surplus of males cos female infanticide etc.
  84. Adam says:
    @AP

    In your mind a white nationalist should judge countries entirely by present demographics to the total exclusion of other factors and future trends?
     
    I just think it's funny that a white nationalist should hate every all-white country on the planet. I guess white nationalists really are that stupid?

    Several people have given coherent arguments for why Poland and other BASTE countries are actually in a very precarious situation
     
    You think those arguments are coherent? Here are the ones I've read here:

    1. Most of the all-white countries belong to NATO. There are a few hundred African-American troops there. Somehow this means all the local women will have so many babies with those soldiers that the countries will stop being white sometime.

    2. Most of those all-white countries belong to the EU, which has open borders and in which the Western countries are full of migrants. EU itself was 2% Muslim in 2015, but this number is a lot higher now. Perhaps 4% or even 5%. Somehow a lot of Muslims, already living in rich and generous countries like Germany or France, will move to poorer Poland, Latvia etc. where they get much less benefits and have no local community to support them. They will do this why? And years after the migrants came to western Europe they haven't done this. Indeed almost all of the few hundred who were settled in the Baltics (they were barred from Poland) left for Germany. *

    "Of 349 asylum seekers taken in by Lithuania, 248 left as soon as they had received official refugee status, according to Robertas Mikulenas, director of a reception centre in Rukla, a small Lithuanian town."

    "So far 317 refugees allocated to Latvia have arrived in the country, but no office has records of their whereabouts. The fact that none are using the mentoring services available to those with official refugee status suggests they have left.

    In Estonia the situation is similar: of the 136 who arrived on the EU programme, 79 have moved elsewhere in Europe. Refugees in Estonia receive €130 a month.

    Once granted asylum, a refugee can travel freely within the EU and join friends and family in Western Europe - and the Baltic countries have fulfilled their obligations under the EU quota scheme."

    3. Russia is somehow the better alternative. Even though it has more Muslims than the EU (it is as Muslim as the most Muslim EU countries such as France) and is actually in the Eurasian Union with Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan (there are no Muslim countries in the EU).

    Those are very coherent arguments as for why, for white nationalists, actual all-white countries are so terrible.

    *Full article:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40479224

    'They don't give us anything'
    He only learnt he was going to Latvia a day before his flight. He was not allowed to choose the destination himself, and was not happy about it.

    "There are lots of Eritreans everywhere in Europe. They talk to one another. We all know that in Germany they give you an apartment and €400 (£350; $450) pocket money. But in Latvia they don't give us anything - just €139 a month," he told BBC Russian.

    In Riga it is hard to find a one-room flat to rent for that money. But there are no plans to increase benefits.

    "Those are our allowances and we can't afford to pay people more - we aren't that kind of country," said Ainars Latkovskis, head of the Parliamentary Commission for Internal Affairs.

    "They can of course look for work. But by Latvian law you have to speak the language to get a proper job and it usually takes years to learn," he said.

    Mekharena says it is the low living standard that makes refugees leave Latvia as soon as they get their papers. He knows many asylum seekers who have done exactly that.

    "Most of them couldn't survive here. They can't accept the difference [between incomes in Latvia and Germany]. Lots of them borrowed money to get to Europe and they need to pay it back," said Mekharena. He himself paid people smugglers $3,000.

    Of 349 asylum seekers taken in by Lithuania, 248 left as soon as they had received official refugee status, according to Robertas Mikulenas, director of a reception centre in Rukla, a small Lithuanian town.

    Benefits for refugees in Lithuania vary from €102 to €204 a month.

    So far 317 refugees allocated to Latvia have arrived in the country, but no office has records of their whereabouts. The fact that none are using the mentoring services available to those with official refugee status suggests they have left.

    In Estonia the situation is similar: of the 136 who arrived on the EU programme, 79 have moved elsewhere in Europe. Refugees in Estonia receive €130 a month.

    Once granted asylum, a refugee can travel freely within the EU and join friends and family in Western Europe - and the Baltic countries have fulfilled their obligations under the EU quota scheme.

     EU itself was 2% Muslim in 2015, but this number is a lot higher now. Perhaps 4% or even 5%

    It doubled in less than 5 years and that isn’t concerning to you? A huge percentage of the white population is past reproductive age and young people have much lower fertility than the migrants, who continue to come and won’t stop. Furthermore, Africans and other problematic non-Muslim immigrants are just a much a threat as the Muslims.

    They will do this why

    Because in 10-20 years Poland will be much richer and more liberal while the western countries will rapidly decline in their ability to support more parasites. Try as hard as you possibly can to understand the concept that things change over time and the situation will be different in the future.

    Russia is somehow the better alternative

    The majority of Russian Muslims are Tatars and Bashkirs who are completely civilized and secular. More importantly, Russia puts absolutely no pressure on their sphere to accept Chechens or Kazahks. Compared to the US and EU which are ideologically committed to destroying homogenous nation states in Europe. On this issue Russia is absolutely superior from the perspective of Europeans.

    • Agree: Thulean Friend
    • Replies: @Adam
    I should add that I am not a supporter of Putin and the RF and there is obviously an immigration problem there too, though not nearly as bad is in the west.
    , @AP

    EU itself was 2% Muslim in 2015, but this number is a lot higher now. Perhaps 4% or even 5%

    It doubled in less than 5 years and that isn’t concerning to you?
     
    It doubled because of a large wave that has now largely ended.

    https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/17684/production/_105067859_illegalcrossings640-nc.png

    A wave that never touched Visegrad. It would have to double yet again to get to where Russia is now already.

    Furthermore, Africans and other problematic non-Muslim immigrants are just a much a threat as the Muslims.
     
    And just as unlikely to move to Visegrad.

    They will do this why

    Because in 10-20 years Poland will be much richer and more liberal while the western countries will rapidly decline in their ability to support more parasites
     
    LOL, you believe this? Poland is so far behind Germany that it will not come close to converging in 10-20 or even 50 years. It closed the gap from having 1/3 Gemany's per capita GDP PPP to about 60% and has been stable at that level:

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.CD?locations=PL-DE

    PP has shown that Poland is becoming more secular, but not more liberal with respect to migrants.

    Try as hard as you possibly can to understand the concept that things change over time
     
    Try to look at trends in data rather than relying on (negative) wishful thinking about "things changing over time."

    Russia is somehow the better alternative

    The majority of Russian Muslims are Tatars and Bashkirs who are completely civilized and secular.
     
    Chechens, Afghans, and Iraqis were once fairly secular. You just wrote "Try as hard as you possibly can to understand the concept that things change over time." Lol.

    More importantly, Russia puts absolutely no pressure on their sphere to accept Chechens or Kazahks. Compared to the US and EU which are ideologically committed to destroying homogenous nation states in Europe.
     
    Poland and Hungary have had no trouble staving off efforts to settle their countries with small numbers of refugees.

    Compared to EU and ES, Russia is in a customs union with 2 Muslim countries. Putin wants others to join.
    , @AP

    Because in 10-20 years Poland will be much richer and more liberal
     
    Counter-evidence:

    https://eu.boell.org/en/2017/06/14/poland-polish-taking-closer-look-polish-rejection-refugees

    Additionally, the ultra-right is highly present in the public sphere and offers a variety of social and political activities to the young, as for instance discussions, holiday camps and street campaigns. With its activities, the All-Polish Youth aims to shape the identity of young people and promote traditional, Catholic and patriotic values. It furthermore rejects any foreign influence, especially from the West. The strong activity of ultra-right movements can at least partially explain the high degree of far-right radicalism among Polish youth: Since 2014, the proportion of right wing supporters among Polish youth has rapidly increased and has become higher than in the overall population. In the first three quarters of 2015, as much as 33% of Poles aged 18-24 have described their political views as right-wing [30]. Accordingly, opposition against taking in refugees from the Middle East and Africa is proportionally the highest among people below the age of 45
    , @LondonBob
    I was in Warsaw in 2004 for a few months, there were about five black people, you could actually recognise each one individually when you saw them. I went back a couple of years ago and the number of blacks I could see was starkly increased, still not many but the increase was noticeable, perhaps not so much for the residents themselves, the old boiling frog problem. I don't recall seeing any blacks in Moscow, except a black women in a high end club who looked like a model.
    , @Dmitry
    Immigrants flood countries where they can improve their quality of life, and which have more welfare relative to other options (or alternatively, countries like Egypt, which they see as transition country).

    Ukraine is far too poor and quality of life is not any mass immigrants (even from countries like Syria) want.

    Ukrainians are emigrating even to countries like Turkey. And Turkey is not Norway or Sweden.

    -

    Poland is a different issue, because they part of EU open borders area, while being next to countries (like Germany) where life standards are far higher.

    Few normal immigrants would choose to live in Poland, when they can as easily live in world class countries like Germany, Denmark or Sweden instead. So Poland is receiving only mass immigrants from Ukraine, because those Ukrainians cannot work in other EU countries.

    -

    If you want to talk about future changes. It's possible Poland will eventually become become as rich and attractive to immigrants as Western European countries. But this is not the current situation.

    On the other hand, Ukraine will not be rich for a long time, and if it would join EU, the problem will be keeping people in Ukraine.

    Even if you are optimistic for Ukraine's economy, it won't be close to Turkey's current income level until 2030s in the most optimistic scenario (and by then Turkey's income will be a lot higher).

    -

    This discussion is a bit comical. I'm sure everyone is dreaming of immigrating to Ukraine, because - Ukraine's famous high salaries, lack of HIV, world class hospitals, smooth roads, and political stability?

  85. AP says:
    @Adam
    PiS politicians are not the totality of the Polish elite, there is a substantial neoliberal element too. Furthermore Polish youth are largely converging to western European norms (liberalism included). I really hope that there's some kind of paradigm shift in western Europe in the next couple decades, but otherwise a small country like Poland (or even the Visegrad group + Ukraine) simply does not have the resources to resist against the collective financial , political, and cultural power of the EU and the US which are utterly opposed to the existence of ethnic nation-states and traditional values.

    Just because some populists got elected does not mean the future of any nation is ensured. That kind of complacency is what allowed western states to be ruined gradually even though the majority of normal people were deeply opposed to demographic change and cultural revolution.

    PiS politicians are not the totality of the Polish elite, there is a substantial neoliberal element too.

    Even those are more skeptical of migrants than are Westerners. PiS wanted and got no refugees, its rivals were willing to accept a very small number. Here is Poland’s neoliberal party:

    https://www.politico.eu/article/politics-nationalism-and-religion-explain-why-poland-doesnt-want-refugees/

    Grzegorz Schetyna, the leader of Civic Platform, first told a reporter that his party was against accepting refugees — something of a problem since it was the previous Civic Platform government (in which Schetyna served as foreign minister) that agreed to accept 6,200 asylum seekers from the EU pool.

    Within days Schetyna scrambled back, saying Civic Platform was against “illegal migrants” but that he favored accepting “the few dozen people who want to come to Poland.”

    :::::

    So that’s the difference. Zero refugees vs. a small symbolic amount, most of whom will just move to Germany where incomes and benefits are higher, once they get their EU papers.

    Furthermore Polish youth are largely converging to western European norms (liberalism included).

    They seem to be getting more Czech-like – more secular and less homophobic, yet solidly anti-migrant.

    otherwise a small country like Poland (or even the Visegrad group + Ukraine) simply does not have the resources to resist against the collective financial , political, and cultural power of the EU and the US which are utterly opposed to the existence of ethnic nation-states and traditional values.

    West is not monolithically pro-migration (look at Trump and Italy) and can’t force anything on little Hungary, let alone the 100+ million in Visegrad + Ukraine.

  86. @Adam

     EU itself was 2% Muslim in 2015, but this number is a lot higher now. Perhaps 4% or even 5%
     
    It doubled in less than 5 years and that isn't concerning to you? A huge percentage of the white population is past reproductive age and young people have much lower fertility than the migrants, who continue to come and won't stop. Furthermore, Africans and other problematic non-Muslim immigrants are just a much a threat as the Muslims.

    They will do this why
     
    Because in 10-20 years Poland will be much richer and more liberal while the western countries will rapidly decline in their ability to support more parasites. Try as hard as you possibly can to understand the concept that things change over time and the situation will be different in the future.

    Russia is somehow the better alternative
     
    The majority of Russian Muslims are Tatars and Bashkirs who are completely civilized and secular. More importantly, Russia puts absolutely no pressure on their sphere to accept Chechens or Kazahks. Compared to the US and EU which are ideologically committed to destroying homogenous nation states in Europe. On this issue Russia is absolutely superior from the perspective of Europeans.

    I should add that I am not a supporter of Putin and the RF and there is obviously an immigration problem there too, though not nearly as bad is in the west.

    • Replies: @LatW
    Well, Adam, the issue in Russia is that ethnonationalists (the kind that roam freely in Intermarium) are incarcerated now. There is also Caucasian crime - a few weeks ago a former spetznaz soldier, a young, tall, good looking Russian guy, was simply stabbed right in the heart by an Armenian and died in his girlfriends arms. The Armenian just got on the plane and left.
  87. AP says:
    @Adam

     EU itself was 2% Muslim in 2015, but this number is a lot higher now. Perhaps 4% or even 5%
     
    It doubled in less than 5 years and that isn't concerning to you? A huge percentage of the white population is past reproductive age and young people have much lower fertility than the migrants, who continue to come and won't stop. Furthermore, Africans and other problematic non-Muslim immigrants are just a much a threat as the Muslims.

    They will do this why
     
    Because in 10-20 years Poland will be much richer and more liberal while the western countries will rapidly decline in their ability to support more parasites. Try as hard as you possibly can to understand the concept that things change over time and the situation will be different in the future.

    Russia is somehow the better alternative
     
    The majority of Russian Muslims are Tatars and Bashkirs who are completely civilized and secular. More importantly, Russia puts absolutely no pressure on their sphere to accept Chechens or Kazahks. Compared to the US and EU which are ideologically committed to destroying homogenous nation states in Europe. On this issue Russia is absolutely superior from the perspective of Europeans.

    EU itself was 2% Muslim in 2015, but this number is a lot higher now. Perhaps 4% or even 5%

    It doubled in less than 5 years and that isn’t concerning to you?

    It doubled because of a large wave that has now largely ended.

    A wave that never touched Visegrad. It would have to double yet again to get to where Russia is now already.

    Furthermore, Africans and other problematic non-Muslim immigrants are just a much a threat as the Muslims.

    And just as unlikely to move to Visegrad.

    They will do this why

    Because in 10-20 years Poland will be much richer and more liberal while the western countries will rapidly decline in their ability to support more parasites

    LOL, you believe this? Poland is so far behind Germany that it will not come close to converging in 10-20 or even 50 years. It closed the gap from having 1/3 Gemany’s per capita GDP PPP to about 60% and has been stable at that level:

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.CD?locations=PL-DE

    PP has shown that Poland is becoming more secular, but not more liberal with respect to migrants.

    Try as hard as you possibly can to understand the concept that things change over time

    Try to look at trends in data rather than relying on (negative) wishful thinking about “things changing over time.”

    Russia is somehow the better alternative

    The majority of Russian Muslims are Tatars and Bashkirs who are completely civilized and secular.

    Chechens, Afghans, and Iraqis were once fairly secular. You just wrote “Try as hard as you possibly can to understand the concept that things change over time.” Lol.

    More importantly, Russia puts absolutely no pressure on their sphere to accept Chechens or Kazahks. Compared to the US and EU which are ideologically committed to destroying homogenous nation states in Europe.

    Poland and Hungary have had no trouble staving off efforts to settle their countries with small numbers of refugees.

    Compared to EU and ES, Russia is in a customs union with 2 Muslim countries. Putin wants others to join.

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ

    LOL, you believe this? Poland is so far behind Germany that it will not come close to converging in 10-20 or even 50 years. It closed the gap from having 1/3 Gemany’s per capita GDP PPP to about 60% and has been stable at that level:
     
    Considering that Poland and Germany have comparable average IQs, eventual convergence--maybe in 50 years or so--is certainly very possible--especially if large-scale low-IQ immigration is going to reduce Germany's average IQ even further (according to PISA, migrants are already significantly bringing down Germany's average IQ).

    Compared to EU and ES, Russia is in a customs union with 2 Muslim countries. Putin wants others to join.
     
    This customs union is unlikely to progress much beyond that since even ex-USSR Muslim countries are unwilling to give up their independence, though.

    Also, Ukrainians themselves voted for an EU-style economic union with tens of millions of Central Asian Muslims back in March 1991. Apparently this idea wasn't so scary for Ukrainians back then.

  88. AP says:
    @Adam

     EU itself was 2% Muslim in 2015, but this number is a lot higher now. Perhaps 4% or even 5%
     
    It doubled in less than 5 years and that isn't concerning to you? A huge percentage of the white population is past reproductive age and young people have much lower fertility than the migrants, who continue to come and won't stop. Furthermore, Africans and other problematic non-Muslim immigrants are just a much a threat as the Muslims.

    They will do this why
     
    Because in 10-20 years Poland will be much richer and more liberal while the western countries will rapidly decline in their ability to support more parasites. Try as hard as you possibly can to understand the concept that things change over time and the situation will be different in the future.

    Russia is somehow the better alternative
     
    The majority of Russian Muslims are Tatars and Bashkirs who are completely civilized and secular. More importantly, Russia puts absolutely no pressure on their sphere to accept Chechens or Kazahks. Compared to the US and EU which are ideologically committed to destroying homogenous nation states in Europe. On this issue Russia is absolutely superior from the perspective of Europeans.

    Because in 10-20 years Poland will be much richer and more liberal

    Counter-evidence:

    https://eu.boell.org/en/2017/06/14/poland-polish-taking-closer-look-polish-rejection-refugees

    Additionally, the ultra-right is highly present in the public sphere and offers a variety of social and political activities to the young, as for instance discussions, holiday camps and street campaigns. With its activities, the All-Polish Youth aims to shape the identity of young people and promote traditional, Catholic and patriotic values. It furthermore rejects any foreign influence, especially from the West. The strong activity of ultra-right movements can at least partially explain the high degree of far-right radicalism among Polish youth: Since 2014, the proportion of right wing supporters among Polish youth has rapidly increased and has become higher than in the overall population. In the first three quarters of 2015, as much as 33% of Poles aged 18-24 have described their political views as right-wing [30]. Accordingly, opposition against taking in refugees from the Middle East and Africa is proportionally the highest among people below the age of 45

  89. @prime noticer
    now this is the level of craziness i expect from democrat cat ladies posting in new york times comment sections. bravo, ladies. you didn't let me down.

    https://i.imgur.com/19EORoW.jpg

    TRUMP IS IN THE CENTER OF IT ALL!

    Where is Dugin and Dick Spencer?? Low energy!

  90. @Mikhail

    In fact one does not find many Japanese cars on Russian roads mostly European and Korean.
     
    Is that so true in the Russian far-east when compared to St Pete and Moscow?

    I was told there is an active market in second hand Japanese cars in Russia’s far east but I have not visited Russia’s Far East.

    I do wonder exactly how a significant number of Japanese Right Hand drive cars would work in Left Hand drive Russia.

    But Japanese manufacturers seem relatively absent from Russia across all sectors.

    The Hyundai Solaris which is a popular car in Russia is sold as the Hyundai Verna in other markets like India,Thailand etc. where it faces stiff competition and usually looses to the Honda City.But Honda seems uninterested in the Russian market leaving Hyundai/Kia to corner the segment.

    • Replies: @Mikhail

    I do wonder exactly how a significant number of Japanese Right Hand drive cars would work in Left Hand drive Russia.
     
    In Japan, the Japanese have made left hand driven cars. I understand that there're made in Japan Lexus models in North America. I had a made in Japan Acura Integra.
  91. @Vishnugupta
    I was told there is an active market in second hand Japanese cars in Russia's far east but I have not visited Russia's Far East.

    I do wonder exactly how a significant number of Japanese Right Hand drive cars would work in Left Hand drive Russia.

    But Japanese manufacturers seem relatively absent from Russia across all sectors.

    The Hyundai Solaris which is a popular car in Russia is sold as the Hyundai Verna in other markets like India,Thailand etc. where it faces stiff competition and usually looses to the Honda City.But Honda seems uninterested in the Russian market leaving Hyundai/Kia to corner the segment.

    I do wonder exactly how a significant number of Japanese Right Hand drive cars would work in Left Hand drive Russia.

    In Japan, the Japanese have made left hand driven cars. I understand that there’re made in Japan Lexus models in North America. I had a made in Japan Acura Integra.

    • Replies: @Vishnugupta
    Yes but those are upscale new cars.

    Japanese second hand cars are almost always right hand drive. These are the ones being exported to Russia's far east.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/sputniknews.com/amp/analysis/20121003176382673/
  92. @Anatoly Karlin
    This is the current Open Thread, where anything goes - within reason.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

    Stagger the posts…. It’s just good marketing. Write them and file them away on delay.

  93. @Adam

     EU itself was 2% Muslim in 2015, but this number is a lot higher now. Perhaps 4% or even 5%
     
    It doubled in less than 5 years and that isn't concerning to you? A huge percentage of the white population is past reproductive age and young people have much lower fertility than the migrants, who continue to come and won't stop. Furthermore, Africans and other problematic non-Muslim immigrants are just a much a threat as the Muslims.

    They will do this why
     
    Because in 10-20 years Poland will be much richer and more liberal while the western countries will rapidly decline in their ability to support more parasites. Try as hard as you possibly can to understand the concept that things change over time and the situation will be different in the future.

    Russia is somehow the better alternative
     
    The majority of Russian Muslims are Tatars and Bashkirs who are completely civilized and secular. More importantly, Russia puts absolutely no pressure on their sphere to accept Chechens or Kazahks. Compared to the US and EU which are ideologically committed to destroying homogenous nation states in Europe. On this issue Russia is absolutely superior from the perspective of Europeans.

    I was in Warsaw in 2004 for a few months, there were about five black people, you could actually recognise each one individually when you saw them. I went back a couple of years ago and the number of blacks I could see was starkly increased, still not many but the increase was noticeable, perhaps not so much for the residents themselves, the old boiling frog problem. I don’t recall seeing any blacks in Moscow, except a black women in a high end club who looked like a model.

    • Replies: @neutral
    The boiling frog is real, the rate that the water is heating up these days is much faster than it used to be.
    , @JL
    There are actually a fair amount of blacks in Moscow, it's just that they generally keep a low profile for their own good. The closest thing to a black neighborhood you'd find is the Patrice Lumumba Friendship University near Yugozapad. But it's very heavily policed and quite safe.
    , @utu
    Thera are 20 times more Africans in Russian than in Poland.
  94. @Mr. XYZ
    Somewhat off-topic, but do you think that a different German Chancellor in 2015 would have still done what Merkel did in regards to letting a million largely Muslim migrants into Germany?

    Probably, just a product of the political elite’s ideology. Merkel admitting those immigrants was thought as the best means to boost the moribund EU economy. This might seems nuts to us but that is what they think.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Nobody of even average intelligence and reasoning abilities — merely or anyone — could sincerely think that the economy would be helped by importing millions of people who do not speak or understand let alone read and write the German language, lack any meaningful training or education or marketable skills in their own countries already, are native speakers of totally unrelated languages.

    Add in the fact that in Germany, like in the USA and elsewhere, large numbers of unskilled and lower-skilled jobs are being eliminated by automation and scanners, and will be eliminated by more capable robots and artificial intelligence in the immediate future, not the long term. Specifically many jobs as supermarket checkout jobs, restaurant cook, retail clerk, office work like insurance claims adjusting, truck or Uber driver — the very jobs that unskilled or low-skilled people with limited German knowledge might do —- are diminishing and will likely be much more greatly diminished soon.

    Add in the fact that the invaders, aka migrants, were and are overwhelmingly adherents of a religion that teaches them to hate and subjugate the natives, and come from otherwise incompatible or less compatible cultures, and it becomes an even more obviously suicidal idea.

    Yeah, there are already few jobs that the invaders can do, and the jobs they might do are being automated and otherwise eliminated, but at least they’re not from a similar kindred people and observe a religion that command them to conquer and subjugate and never truly compromise or assimilate wherever they go.

    If you think Merkel sincerely thought that the invaders would help Germans or their economy, you are far too naive or just a nice person giving too much credit ;)

    Remember merkel’s disgusted reaction when handed a German flag. She hates her own people and at a minimum doesn’t care whether they survive and thrive as their own culture and polity.

    Germany is almost at the point of no return. If they admit zero Muslims and zero nonEuropeans for permanent settlement from 2020 on, the existing muslim and noneuropean population continues to grow by births while the German population continues to decline. Every single year, without exception.

    As for percentages, no way is the EU only 4-5% Muslim now. More to the point, some countries are nearing ten percent and growing fast, as well as caving to Islam and increasingly aggressive Muslims demanding that their lifestyle, mores and rules replace white European law and culture (including sharia law): Sweden, followed by France and England and the Benelux countries.

    We will have a Muslim-majority London, Paris, Stockholm, Rome and Naples, Vienna, Belgium, Amsterdam and Rotterdam within 20 years, not longer. Wait till the white flight, and simply nonMuslim flight, begin in earnest from the EU to Eastern Europe, the USA and Canada, and Russia if Russia allows it.
  95. @Mikhail

    I do wonder exactly how a significant number of Japanese Right Hand drive cars would work in Left Hand drive Russia.
     
    In Japan, the Japanese have made left hand driven cars. I understand that there're made in Japan Lexus models in North America. I had a made in Japan Acura Integra.

    Yes but those are upscale new cars.

    Japanese second hand cars are almost always right hand drive. These are the ones being exported to Russia’s far east.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/sputniknews.com/amp/analysis/20121003176382673/

  96. @AP
    Is there an all-white country you don't hate, other than perhaps Belarus?

    Again, the stupidity of white nationalists never fails to amuse. Though the only ones I've encountered have been here.

    Start with likes of Salvini and Orban and yes Putin, nobody is perfect, but at least they are not total arse licks to the USA. If you care more about getting a pat on the head from the USA, a very anti white regime, you are anti white.

  97. @LondonBob
    I was in Warsaw in 2004 for a few months, there were about five black people, you could actually recognise each one individually when you saw them. I went back a couple of years ago and the number of blacks I could see was starkly increased, still not many but the increase was noticeable, perhaps not so much for the residents themselves, the old boiling frog problem. I don't recall seeing any blacks in Moscow, except a black women in a high end club who looked like a model.

    The boiling frog is real, the rate that the water is heating up these days is much faster than it used to be.

  98. @LondonBob
    I was in Warsaw in 2004 for a few months, there were about five black people, you could actually recognise each one individually when you saw them. I went back a couple of years ago and the number of blacks I could see was starkly increased, still not many but the increase was noticeable, perhaps not so much for the residents themselves, the old boiling frog problem. I don't recall seeing any blacks in Moscow, except a black women in a high end club who looked like a model.

    There are actually a fair amount of blacks in Moscow, it’s just that they generally keep a low profile for their own good. The closest thing to a black neighborhood you’d find is the Patrice Lumumba Friendship University near Yugozapad. But it’s very heavily policed and quite safe.

  99. @LondonBob
    I was in Warsaw in 2004 for a few months, there were about five black people, you could actually recognise each one individually when you saw them. I went back a couple of years ago and the number of blacks I could see was starkly increased, still not many but the increase was noticeable, perhaps not so much for the residents themselves, the old boiling frog problem. I don't recall seeing any blacks in Moscow, except a black women in a high end club who looked like a model.

    Thera are 20 times more Africans in Russian than in Poland.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Can't figure out if Disagree or Troll is more appropriate here.
  100. @Adam
    In your mind a white nationalist should judge countries entirely by present demographics to the total exclusion of other factors and future trends?

    Several people have given coherent arguments for why Poland and other BASTE countries are actually in a very precarious situation, but I guess we should all just trust in Hetman AP von Habsburg's szlachta informers that Poland will remain a 99% white conservative country for all eternity.

    Several people have given coherent arguments for why Poland and other BASTE countries are actually in a very precarious situation,

    While I do agree that the Intermarium countries are not entirely safe and certain measures should be taken immediately, the “arguments” that you guys have given are not all that coherent and lack in real life detail.

    A typical mistake you guys make is projecting America’s situation on the EE. America is in a very peculiar situation where technically immigrating to the US is quite hard, yet at the same time there is a certain anarchic attitude about it and there are immigrants coming all the time. FOB Indian families, Chinese students, etc. Education programs, churches, immigrant social networks, NGOs, etc. These aren’t really present in EE, nobody’s gonna build them there, there are simply no resources for that and the interest is minimal. Also, Intermarium states, regardless of their difficult histories, are basically ethnostates, the ethnostate centered ideology has not yet been switched to the multiculturalist one. Also, PC’ism is much much worse in the US, there is hardly any in EE, the public discourse, despite of the polarization of society between conservatives and liberals, is nowhere near as PC. Nowhere near and possibly never will be. Another difference is that American nationalists are oppressed, while in Intermarium they form small factions in the government.

    E.Europeans have also been colonized from both sides, so their sense of foreign influence is a little more acute. Colonial powers tend to have a certain grandeur, a generosity of the soul, a certain assimilating tendency, that is evident for instance when the French say – everyone in France is French, or some English feel that they can take care of others because they are so rich and it’s “the right thing to do”, E.Europeans lack this. They can be quite stingy even towards each other. The typical thinking is that nothing should come for free. I’m not saying this can’t change, it’s just there are important nuances there, that you as an American do not know of.

    I agree with Beckow that we entered the EU with the thought of entering as ethnostates to join other ethnostates, and that there might have been some miscommunication there – we thought of “diversity” as ethnic and linguistic diversity, not world citizenship. It is a bit awkward but we can still argue that rules where changed in the middle of the game – this is not really what we signed up for. Thus rules need to be renegotiated and there are already calls to do that. Europe is not what it was in 2004. The EU is not a federation, countries have rights and things can still be discussed.

    It may not be NATO membership that will decide the demographics – Poland has been in NATO for 20 years and all those years it had outmigration, but it took just a couple of years of steady 4% growth for third country migrants to appear. (Also, NATO itself needs to be renegotiated, from a political to defense alliance, so that Poland could be like Turkey – an ally but with its own culture).

    The actual workforce needs on the ground right now are more important than the “Western ideology”. Many businesses (both local as well as investors) are screaming for labor. Should they be given all they want? No. But the needs of at least the local businesses (foreign investors is a separate story), should be addressed. This is currently being addressed by the large influx of Eastern Slavs into the Intermarium countries. Yes, that includes not only Ukrainians, but even Northern Russians! This alleviates the labor shortage and a potential recession could alleviate things even more.

    The current migrant profile looks something like this: mostly re-patriating Poles, Estonians, etc., relatively small chunk, but it’s there; a relatively large chunk of Eastern Slavs who either stay or rotate, and a third group, “Others”. This is larger in Poland and Czech Rep, I imagine, and minuscule or practically non-existent in the Baltics (but it has appeared, alarmingly, although it’s hard to say how many of them are tourists or transients into the West). Most of those are also workers and not welfare migrants because EE politicians deliberately keep those welfare payments small (Latvian nationalists in fact made sure the payments to migrants are reduced and the politicians care more about building a large concert hall than taking care of the migrants). The key would be to source repatriants as well as Slavs, so that there would be no space left for anyone else. According to some data, 30% of EE migrants in the West want to return home, if we succeeded in repatriating them it could be hundreds of thousands of people.

    Oh, and there is another tiny immigrant group – Germanic husbands. 🙂 Very nice, hard working, cute with flaxen hair, potentially easy to assimilate eventually.

    Btw, another mistake of yours is the perception that the threat is from the West – and while I don’t disagree that in the future, even in the near future, it is a potential threat, currently the majority of third country migrants arrive from Russia, via the Northern route.

    So, yea, what matters is not some ideological slogans, but how the situation will be handled on the ground. All in all, EE is very homogeneous and very pleasant, with visibly rising living standards to top it off.

    • Agree: utu, Epigon, Beckow
    • Replies: @utu
    I did agree with your line of arguments because you dealt well with the nonsense brought up by Adam however you went too far and your spin is too strong. Things do not look as good as you paint them. (1) Poland is bringing way too many workers from Asia. Poland has no means to deport them when/if their work visas expire. In practice they all will become permanent residents and once they have children they will be parents of Polish citizens. (2) Poland does not put much effort in repatriating Poles from Russia and Ukraine and does nothing for Poles in Lithuania and Belarus. (3) Most importantly the influx of Ukrainians is way too big. Ukrainians will not assimilate, so an ethnic minority (most likely hostile) is being created in a mono-ethnic country.
    , @Anonymous
    To this excellent post I would add another point:

    Immigrants don't choose a destination country by opening up the CIA Fact Book, finding the list of countries ranked by per-capita GDP and then cross-referencing which ones have the most benefits; they have a gestalt which is largely based on the reputation of a country in their own countries. Certainly a wealthy country with a well-developed social welfare system is desirable, but they are also looking for countries that are perceived as tolerant and open-minded, preferably ones which already have large communities of their coethnics.

    Eastern Europe is still generally regarded in the rest of the world as a brutal, intolerant and backwards place (as compared to the rest of the continent). To overcome this reputation in the minds of Third Worlders will be a long, slow process, one that happens gradually over several decades. And that's assuming it will ever happen: public sentiments in EE seem to be overwhelmingly skeptical of the situation in Western Europe and they are probably not so arrogant/stupid as to think (as Western Europe did) that "where others have failed in creating a multicultural utopia, we will succeed!"

    Put another way: there's a reason immigrants tend to prefer Belgium/Netherlands/Sweden to Ireland, even though the latter is now wealthier. Sometimes negative stereotypes can work to a country's benefit.
  101. @Adam
    I should add that I am not a supporter of Putin and the RF and there is obviously an immigration problem there too, though not nearly as bad is in the west.

    Well, Adam, the issue in Russia is that ethnonationalists (the kind that roam freely in Intermarium) are incarcerated now. There is also Caucasian crime – a few weeks ago a former spetznaz soldier, a young, tall, good looking Russian guy, was simply stabbed right in the heart by an Armenian and died in his girlfriends arms. The Armenian just got on the plane and left.

    • Replies: @DreadIlk
    The guy accused wasn't the perpetrator. He turned him self in. Other caucasians were busted and the guy that flew away will be extradited. But otherwise yes Russians are a little bit cucked in their nationalism. Difference is they need like 40 years to get to the cuckiness of the west.
  102. @Anatoly Karlin
    Gopniks are the lumpenproletariat. Vatniks are Uralvagonzavod workers.

    Gopniks have their own status ranking, too — three stripes on the Adidas track suit indicates higher status. And a gold chain. Always nice to put on a brand new Adidas track suit and go to a friend’s birthday party (or even a concert). 🙂

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Adidas can also be sponsor of traditional local sports

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eiY6n0llMk
  103. @Anonymous
    From "I have a dream" to "I lick ice cream".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eacb6eR57bc

    This really going to take civilization down a level. Let in brown people next thing you are putting temper proof packaging for icecream. How much is that going to raise the price of food?

  104. @AP

    But keep believing that a ruling class that’s heavily Americanized and integrated with the EU will somehow sustain a thousand year Polish ethnostate.
     
    I actually happen to know people from the Polish ruling class (relatives of elite politicians, living in the USA). They look upon what happened in Germany with madness and horror, and voted for Trump. That's the Polish ruling class.

    Relatives living in the US is all you need to know about the elite.

    • Replies: @AP
    Yeah, the brother of a member of the Polish ruling class is pretty close. Especially when one has gone to Poland and spent time with them. It gives a good idea.

    You, on the other hand, don't even know anything about the city where you live:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/russia-regains-pace-voting-rights/#comment-3319498
  105. AP says:
    @DreadIlk
    Relatives living in the US is all you need to know about the elite.

    Yeah, the brother of a member of the Polish ruling class is pretty close. Especially when one has gone to Poland and spent time with them. It gives a good idea.

    You, on the other hand, don’t even know anything about the city where you live:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/russia-regains-pace-voting-rights/#comment-3319498

    • Replies: @DreadIlk
    Ha anyone that follows that thread will know that you are full of shit.

    Anyways more of your retard thinking. Extolling values of a culture where the elite prefers to live somewhere else. Btw before your retard brain short circuits I know this a problem among Russians and Ukrainians too.
  106. utu says:
    @LatW

    Several people have given coherent arguments for why Poland and other BASTE countries are actually in a very precarious situation,
     
    While I do agree that the Intermarium countries are not entirely safe and certain measures should be taken immediately, the "arguments" that you guys have given are not all that coherent and lack in real life detail.

    A typical mistake you guys make is projecting America's situation on the EE. America is in a very peculiar situation where technically immigrating to the US is quite hard, yet at the same time there is a certain anarchic attitude about it and there are immigrants coming all the time. FOB Indian families, Chinese students, etc. Education programs, churches, immigrant social networks, NGOs, etc. These aren't really present in EE, nobody's gonna build them there, there are simply no resources for that and the interest is minimal. Also, Intermarium states, regardless of their difficult histories, are basically ethnostates, the ethnostate centered ideology has not yet been switched to the multiculturalist one. Also, PC'ism is much much worse in the US, there is hardly any in EE, the public discourse, despite of the polarization of society between conservatives and liberals, is nowhere near as PC. Nowhere near and possibly never will be. Another difference is that American nationalists are oppressed, while in Intermarium they form small factions in the government.

    E.Europeans have also been colonized from both sides, so their sense of foreign influence is a little more acute. Colonial powers tend to have a certain grandeur, a generosity of the soul, a certain assimilating tendency, that is evident for instance when the French say - everyone in France is French, or some English feel that they can take care of others because they are so rich and it's "the right thing to do", E.Europeans lack this. They can be quite stingy even towards each other. The typical thinking is that nothing should come for free. I'm not saying this can't change, it's just there are important nuances there, that you as an American do not know of.

    I agree with Beckow that we entered the EU with the thought of entering as ethnostates to join other ethnostates, and that there might have been some miscommunication there - we thought of "diversity" as ethnic and linguistic diversity, not world citizenship. It is a bit awkward but we can still argue that rules where changed in the middle of the game - this is not really what we signed up for. Thus rules need to be renegotiated and there are already calls to do that. Europe is not what it was in 2004. The EU is not a federation, countries have rights and things can still be discussed.

    It may not be NATO membership that will decide the demographics - Poland has been in NATO for 20 years and all those years it had outmigration, but it took just a couple of years of steady 4% growth for third country migrants to appear. (Also, NATO itself needs to be renegotiated, from a political to defense alliance, so that Poland could be like Turkey - an ally but with its own culture).

    The actual workforce needs on the ground right now are more important than the "Western ideology". Many businesses (both local as well as investors) are screaming for labor. Should they be given all they want? No. But the needs of at least the local businesses (foreign investors is a separate story), should be addressed. This is currently being addressed by the large influx of Eastern Slavs into the Intermarium countries. Yes, that includes not only Ukrainians, but even Northern Russians! This alleviates the labor shortage and a potential recession could alleviate things even more.

    The current migrant profile looks something like this: mostly re-patriating Poles, Estonians, etc., relatively small chunk, but it's there; a relatively large chunk of Eastern Slavs who either stay or rotate, and a third group, "Others". This is larger in Poland and Czech Rep, I imagine, and minuscule or practically non-existent in the Baltics (but it has appeared, alarmingly, although it's hard to say how many of them are tourists or transients into the West). Most of those are also workers and not welfare migrants because EE politicians deliberately keep those welfare payments small (Latvian nationalists in fact made sure the payments to migrants are reduced and the politicians care more about building a large concert hall than taking care of the migrants). The key would be to source repatriants as well as Slavs, so that there would be no space left for anyone else. According to some data, 30% of EE migrants in the West want to return home, if we succeeded in repatriating them it could be hundreds of thousands of people.

    Oh, and there is another tiny immigrant group - Germanic husbands. :) Very nice, hard working, cute with flaxen hair, potentially easy to assimilate eventually.

    Btw, another mistake of yours is the perception that the threat is from the West - and while I don't disagree that in the future, even in the near future, it is a potential threat, currently the majority of third country migrants arrive from Russia, via the Northern route.

    So, yea, what matters is not some ideological slogans, but how the situation will be handled on the ground. All in all, EE is very homogeneous and very pleasant, with visibly rising living standards to top it off.

    I did agree with your line of arguments because you dealt well with the nonsense brought up by Adam however you went too far and your spin is too strong. Things do not look as good as you paint them. (1) Poland is bringing way too many workers from Asia. Poland has no means to deport them when/if their work visas expire. In practice they all will become permanent residents and once they have children they will be parents of Polish citizens. (2) Poland does not put much effort in repatriating Poles from Russia and Ukraine and does nothing for Poles in Lithuania and Belarus. (3) Most importantly the influx of Ukrainians is way too big. Ukrainians will not assimilate, so an ethnic minority (most likely hostile) is being created in a mono-ethnic country.

    • Agree: DreadIlk
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Ukrainians will not assimilate, so an ethnic minority (most likely hostile) is being created in a mono-ethnic country.
     
    I wouldn't be to sure about that. From what I've seen, Poles and Ukrainians do assimilate, one to another quite easily. Genetically, they're closer to one another than anybody else in the neighborhood. The Bandera stuff wont last forever, and it seems to be the only thing keeping them apart at the moment. Rome seems to be encoraging the UCC (Ukrainian Catholic Church) in taking a more pronounced role in Ukrainian political life, and has always encouraged friendly relations between Poles and Ukrainians (at least in modern times).
    , @LatW

    In practice they all will become permanent residents and once they have children they will be parents of Polish citizens.
     
    Indeed, utu, this is far from ideal and, as you see, a few years of high growth was all it took (also, globalization is very fast now, it seems like the last 10 years the movement of people everywhere has accelerated).

    Poland does not put much effort in repatriating Poles from Russia
     
    This is indeed an untapped pool. I encountered a couple of what they call in Russian "repatrianti" in the Baltic states. They were totally Russified grandkids of someone that got sent to Siberia but very open to learning the language and staying. These are very tiny groups of people, but in Poland's case it might be a larger number, and might be worth tapping into. Also, it's kind of our duty to those people...

    Most importantly the influx of Ukrainians is way too big.
     
    I understand. Ukraine is going through a very hard time, so I believe they should be treated well (have insurance, get paid on time, etc), we have them, too, they are diligent and nice people. However, it might be too many in Poland, I agree. I really hope some of them will go back to Ukraine, because if you look at this issue from Ukraine's point of view, they're losing people that they themselves will need.

    Ideally, all of the E.Europeans who are willing to repatriate, should be able to return. Measures are being taken to help people return, but they're not sufficient. In Poland's case, this would be a huge number of people and would solve the labor shortage problem.
  107. @LatW
    Gopniks have their own status ranking, too -- three stripes on the Adidas track suit indicates higher status. And a gold chain. Always nice to put on a brand new Adidas track suit and go to a friend's birthday party (or even a concert). :)

    Adidas can also be sponsor of traditional local sports

    • Replies: @LatW
    That's right. There's something martial about the tracksuit. They should have a special gopnik tracksuit brand (with hoodies). They could call it "Rayon".
  108. @LatW
    Well, Adam, the issue in Russia is that ethnonationalists (the kind that roam freely in Intermarium) are incarcerated now. There is also Caucasian crime - a few weeks ago a former spetznaz soldier, a young, tall, good looking Russian guy, was simply stabbed right in the heart by an Armenian and died in his girlfriends arms. The Armenian just got on the plane and left.

    The guy accused wasn’t the perpetrator. He turned him self in. Other caucasians were busted and the guy that flew away will be extradited. But otherwise yes Russians are a little bit cucked in their nationalism. Difference is they need like 40 years to get to the cuckiness of the west.

    • Replies: @LatW
    Thanks for that info. Well, for Nikita's mom and girlfriend it doesn't matter. Nobody wants their son or boyfriend around those hotheads. Kadyrov's men did crazy things in Donbass.
  109. @AP
    Yeah, the brother of a member of the Polish ruling class is pretty close. Especially when one has gone to Poland and spent time with them. It gives a good idea.

    You, on the other hand, don't even know anything about the city where you live:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/russia-regains-pace-voting-rights/#comment-3319498

    Ha anyone that follows that thread will know that you are full of shit.

    Anyways more of your retard thinking. Extolling values of a culture where the elite prefers to live somewhere else. Btw before your retard brain short circuits I know this a problem among Russians and Ukrainians too.

  110. @utu
    I did agree with your line of arguments because you dealt well with the nonsense brought up by Adam however you went too far and your spin is too strong. Things do not look as good as you paint them. (1) Poland is bringing way too many workers from Asia. Poland has no means to deport them when/if their work visas expire. In practice they all will become permanent residents and once they have children they will be parents of Polish citizens. (2) Poland does not put much effort in repatriating Poles from Russia and Ukraine and does nothing for Poles in Lithuania and Belarus. (3) Most importantly the influx of Ukrainians is way too big. Ukrainians will not assimilate, so an ethnic minority (most likely hostile) is being created in a mono-ethnic country.

    Ukrainians will not assimilate, so an ethnic minority (most likely hostile) is being created in a mono-ethnic country.

    I wouldn’t be to sure about that. From what I’ve seen, Poles and Ukrainians do assimilate, one to another quite easily. Genetically, they’re closer to one another than anybody else in the neighborhood. The Bandera stuff wont last forever, and it seems to be the only thing keeping them apart at the moment. Rome seems to be encoraging the UCC (Ukrainian Catholic Church) in taking a more pronounced role in Ukrainian political life, and has always encouraged friendly relations between Poles and Ukrainians (at least in modern times).

    • Replies: @utu

    Poles and Ukrainians do assimilate, one to another
     
    It is not a good deal for Poles if they have to make an effort in their own country to "assimilate" to Ukrainians. It is not a two way street. You are already displaying an attitude of a minority with entitlements of hostile minority. This is not what assimilation is about. Immigration should be an unconditional surrender. And this can't be expected from Ukrainians particulary in large numbers. It might be easier to assimilate a singular African than an Ukrainian. He might appreciate being adopted to a more evolved culture. Ukrainians will never appreciate their host as they are full of resentments towards everybody and especially towards Poles. Poles do not need Ukrainians with a chip on shoulder which you have just displayed.
  111. @Adam

     EU itself was 2% Muslim in 2015, but this number is a lot higher now. Perhaps 4% or even 5%
     
    It doubled in less than 5 years and that isn't concerning to you? A huge percentage of the white population is past reproductive age and young people have much lower fertility than the migrants, who continue to come and won't stop. Furthermore, Africans and other problematic non-Muslim immigrants are just a much a threat as the Muslims.

    They will do this why
     
    Because in 10-20 years Poland will be much richer and more liberal while the western countries will rapidly decline in their ability to support more parasites. Try as hard as you possibly can to understand the concept that things change over time and the situation will be different in the future.

    Russia is somehow the better alternative
     
    The majority of Russian Muslims are Tatars and Bashkirs who are completely civilized and secular. More importantly, Russia puts absolutely no pressure on their sphere to accept Chechens or Kazahks. Compared to the US and EU which are ideologically committed to destroying homogenous nation states in Europe. On this issue Russia is absolutely superior from the perspective of Europeans.

    Immigrants flood countries where they can improve their quality of life, and which have more welfare relative to other options (or alternatively, countries like Egypt, which they see as transition country).

    Ukraine is far too poor and quality of life is not any mass immigrants (even from countries like Syria) want.

    Ukrainians are emigrating even to countries like Turkey. And Turkey is not Norway or Sweden.

    Poland is a different issue, because they part of EU open borders area, while being next to countries (like Germany) where life standards are far higher.

    Few normal immigrants would choose to live in Poland, when they can as easily live in world class countries like Germany, Denmark or Sweden instead. So Poland is receiving only mass immigrants from Ukraine, because those Ukrainians cannot work in other EU countries.

    If you want to talk about future changes. It’s possible Poland will eventually become become as rich and attractive to immigrants as Western European countries. But this is not the current situation.

    On the other hand, Ukraine will not be rich for a long time, and if it would join EU, the problem will be keeping people in Ukraine.

    Even if you are optimistic for Ukraine’s economy, it won’t be close to Turkey’s current income level until 2030s in the most optimistic scenario (and by then Turkey’s income will be a lot higher).

    This discussion is a bit comical. I’m sure everyone is dreaming of immigrating to Ukraine, because – Ukraine’s famous high salaries, lack of HIV, world class hospitals, smooth roads, and political stability?

  112. utu says:
    @Mr. Hack

    Ukrainians will not assimilate, so an ethnic minority (most likely hostile) is being created in a mono-ethnic country.
     
    I wouldn't be to sure about that. From what I've seen, Poles and Ukrainians do assimilate, one to another quite easily. Genetically, they're closer to one another than anybody else in the neighborhood. The Bandera stuff wont last forever, and it seems to be the only thing keeping them apart at the moment. Rome seems to be encoraging the UCC (Ukrainian Catholic Church) in taking a more pronounced role in Ukrainian political life, and has always encouraged friendly relations between Poles and Ukrainians (at least in modern times).

    Poles and Ukrainians do assimilate, one to another

    It is not a good deal for Poles if they have to make an effort in their own country to “assimilate” to Ukrainians. It is not a two way street. You are already displaying an attitude of a minority with entitlements of hostile minority. This is not what assimilation is about. Immigration should be an unconditional surrender. And this can’t be expected from Ukrainians particulary in large numbers. It might be easier to assimilate a singular African than an Ukrainian. He might appreciate being adopted to a more evolved culture. Ukrainians will never appreciate their host as they are full of resentments towards everybody and especially towards Poles. Poles do not need Ukrainians with a chip on shoulder which you have just displayed.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack

    It is not a good deal for Poles if they have to make an effort in their own country to “assimilate” to Ukrainians.
     
    I didn't say anything of the sort. Outside of perhaps maintaining a few of their own churches, Ukrainians will assimilate into Polish society quite seamlessly. Especially by the third generation. And vice-versa. At one time, up to 1/10 of the population in Ukraine was Polish - they've all pretty much assimilated into Ukrainian society too. Believe me, Poles would rather have assimilated Ukrainians fit into their society than Blacks or Asians. The two cultures are very similar including their languages, and as I mentioned previously, they're genetically almost identical.
    , @Beckow

    ...this can’t be expected from Ukrainians particulary in large numbers
     
    An interesting feature of eastern Europe (and probably elsewhere) is that closely related groups often end up disliking or even hating each other when in a single country. Life has its share of day-to-day resentments and disappointments - and a competitive group dynamic kicks in.

    What is even worse is that a society that is already partially divided - let's say Poles, Ukrainians, Silesians with an ambivalent attitude to each other - create a situation where there are incentives to bring in more outsiders, often as a tool against the others.

    Look at Canada and the way Quebec is slowly self-destructing by trying to attract 'French-speaking migrants' - because having a lot of Haitians and Senegalese is so much better for everyone. At the end it leads to atomised, mutually hostile societies that are easily manipulated from the top. That's the point, if you are missing it, you don't get the underlying dynamic.

  113. In other news. Sharij’s party is polling above 5% in Ukraine. Fun times about to start. I bet AP and Hack are crying over their marginal parties getting shit results.

  114. @AP

    The most likely scenario is the migrants from Western Europe moving east and gradually taking over a few metropolitan areas.
     
    Yes, in your mind it is very likely that migrants will move from richer countries with generous benefits to poorer ones with almost no benefits. Even though they haven't started doing that after several years already, and indeed do the opposite (Poland hasn't taken any migrants but the Baltics took a few hundred; almost all of them moved freely to the Western EU as soon as they got their papers).

    from richer countries with generous benefits to poorer ones with almost no benefits.

    Visegrad countries are richer than parts of the West overrun by migrants. They also have great benefits by any standards (well, maybe Poland doesn’t, their benefits are marching around woods scaring themselves silly).

    You are also comparing current situation to the future, the relative attractiveness of V4 is growing. Even today Prague and Bratislava are in the top 10 EU regions in GNP/capita.

    For almost anyone among the 5 billion potential migrants in the Third World, V4 would be a paradise. They go to UK-Germany-France-Sweden because of languages and already existing tribal networks – and because those countries are run by liberal morons. Brussels wants to spread it, and last time I checked they were the ones making the rules.

    • Replies: @LatW
    Totally agree, there will be many who want to live there, it is already evident. The migrants are also learning the local languages (this is new). We need to make it clear conceptually that we are not aspiring to the Western living standards and that it is not our goal to be like the West (this doesn't mean the living standards have to be low at all and in some cases will be higher, as in access to medical care, high culture, etc).
  115. @utu
    Thera are 20 times more Africans in Russian than in Poland.

    Can’t figure out if Disagree or Troll is more appropriate here.

    • Replies: @utu
    Neither. Perhaps you should look at some data. I found this:

    https://www.latimes.com/world/africa/la-fg-russia-africans-20141102-story.html
    Some academics estimate Russia's African diaspora at just under 100,000, of which roughly one-third are believed to be undocumented. The remainder includes registered students, African embassy staff members and blacks who hold Russian citizenship.
     

    https://minorityrights.org/poland-sub-saharan-africans-and-the-struggle-for-acceptance/
    This included a sizeable number of sub-Saharan African citizens – not only students but also tourists, diplomats, business workers, professionals and refugees – who together now constitute a group of some 2,100 people.
     
    If true then my factor of 20 should be raised to 50.
  116. @utu

    Poles and Ukrainians do assimilate, one to another
     
    It is not a good deal for Poles if they have to make an effort in their own country to "assimilate" to Ukrainians. It is not a two way street. You are already displaying an attitude of a minority with entitlements of hostile minority. This is not what assimilation is about. Immigration should be an unconditional surrender. And this can't be expected from Ukrainians particulary in large numbers. It might be easier to assimilate a singular African than an Ukrainian. He might appreciate being adopted to a more evolved culture. Ukrainians will never appreciate their host as they are full of resentments towards everybody and especially towards Poles. Poles do not need Ukrainians with a chip on shoulder which you have just displayed.

    It is not a good deal for Poles if they have to make an effort in their own country to “assimilate” to Ukrainians.

    I didn’t say anything of the sort. Outside of perhaps maintaining a few of their own churches, Ukrainians will assimilate into Polish society quite seamlessly. Especially by the third generation. And vice-versa. At one time, up to 1/10 of the population in Ukraine was Polish – they’ve all pretty much assimilated into Ukrainian society too. Believe me, Poles would rather have assimilated Ukrainians fit into their society than Blacks or Asians. The two cultures are very similar including their languages, and as I mentioned previously, they’re genetically almost identical.

    • Replies: @utu

    At one time, up to 1/10 of the population in Ukraine was Polish – they’ve all pretty much assimilated into Ukrainian society too.
     
    The assimilation was aided with Volhynia massacres of 100,000 or more Poles. Unfortunately nowadays Poles could not resort to similar methods to improve the rate of successful Ukrainian assimilation in Poland.
  117. utu says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    Can't figure out if Disagree or Troll is more appropriate here.

    Neither. Perhaps you should look at some data. I found this:

    https://www.latimes.com/world/africa/la-fg-russia-africans-20141102-story.html
    Some academics estimate Russia’s African diaspora at just under 100,000, of which roughly one-third are believed to be undocumented. The remainder includes registered students, African embassy staff members and blacks who hold Russian citizenship.

    https://minorityrights.org/poland-sub-saharan-africans-and-the-struggle-for-acceptance/
    This included a sizeable number of sub-Saharan African citizens – not only students but also tourists, diplomats, business workers, professionals and refugees – who together now constitute a group of some 2,100 people.

    If true then my factor of 20 should be raised to 50.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    Some academics estimate Russia's African diaspora at just under 100,000, of which roughly one-third are believed to be undocumented.
     
    Complete nonsense. Who the hell are these academics? Perhaps wisely, the article doesn't clarify.

    Also practically none of them are becoming citizens: http://www.unz.com/akarlin/russian-immigration-2016/ (Nigeria: 26, Cameroon: 13, Sudan: 10; Congo: 6).
  118. utu says:
    @Mr. Hack

    It is not a good deal for Poles if they have to make an effort in their own country to “assimilate” to Ukrainians.
     
    I didn't say anything of the sort. Outside of perhaps maintaining a few of their own churches, Ukrainians will assimilate into Polish society quite seamlessly. Especially by the third generation. And vice-versa. At one time, up to 1/10 of the population in Ukraine was Polish - they've all pretty much assimilated into Ukrainian society too. Believe me, Poles would rather have assimilated Ukrainians fit into their society than Blacks or Asians. The two cultures are very similar including their languages, and as I mentioned previously, they're genetically almost identical.

    At one time, up to 1/10 of the population in Ukraine was Polish – they’ve all pretty much assimilated into Ukrainian society too.

    The assimilation was aided with Volhynia massacres of 100,000 or more Poles. Unfortunately nowadays Poles could not resort to similar methods to improve the rate of successful Ukrainian assimilation in Poland.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Unfortunately nowadays Poles could not resort to similar methods to improve the rate of successful Ukrainian assimilation in Poland.
     
    Well, in the past the Poles had their own version of the Volyn Massacre called Akcia Wysla that was a forerunner of the later. Why do you say 'unfortunately' when referring to barbaric measures of the past. Shouldn't people learn from their mistakes and try to move forward, or should they be eternally stuck in the quagmire that paralyzed both societies in the past?
    , @AP

    The assimilation was aided with Volhynia massacres of 100,000 or more Poles.
     
    I think he was referring to the Polish population of central Ukraine in the 18th century. About 10% of the population then were ethnic Poles (petty nobles, and Mazovian peasants who settled due to lighter serfdom). These were almost all assimilated into Ukrainian culture by the late 19th century. Peasants intermarried with peasants, petty gentry with petty gentry. The only Poles who didn't assimilate were the very wealthy nobles. Gogol (from Poltava region, further East) was 1/4 Polish, this was typical.

    If I am not mistaken, Mr. Hack is of mixed Polish and Ukrainian descent.
  119. @utu

    Poles and Ukrainians do assimilate, one to another
     
    It is not a good deal for Poles if they have to make an effort in their own country to "assimilate" to Ukrainians. It is not a two way street. You are already displaying an attitude of a minority with entitlements of hostile minority. This is not what assimilation is about. Immigration should be an unconditional surrender. And this can't be expected from Ukrainians particulary in large numbers. It might be easier to assimilate a singular African than an Ukrainian. He might appreciate being adopted to a more evolved culture. Ukrainians will never appreciate their host as they are full of resentments towards everybody and especially towards Poles. Poles do not need Ukrainians with a chip on shoulder which you have just displayed.

    …this can’t be expected from Ukrainians particulary in large numbers

    An interesting feature of eastern Europe (and probably elsewhere) is that closely related groups often end up disliking or even hating each other when in a single country. Life has its share of day-to-day resentments and disappointments – and a competitive group dynamic kicks in.

    What is even worse is that a society that is already partially divided – let’s say Poles, Ukrainians, Silesians with an ambivalent attitude to each other – create a situation where there are incentives to bring in more outsiders, often as a tool against the others.

    Look at Canada and the way Quebec is slowly self-destructing by trying to attract ‘French-speaking migrants‘ – because having a lot of Haitians and Senegalese is so much better for everyone. At the end it leads to atomised, mutually hostile societies that are easily manipulated from the top. That’s the point, if you are missing it, you don’t get the underlying dynamic.

    • Replies: @utu
    "An interesting feature of eastern Europe..."

    Nothing is interesting about it. Eastern European nationalism is younger and thus more virulent. Furthermore there is the effect of the familiarity breeds contempt and der Narzissmus der kleinen Differenzen.

    As far as Quebec is concerned you are trivializing the issue. They are not that dumb to believe that Haitians would help them with Anglos from Ontario but rather powerless to resist effectively manipulation they are subjected to. So they are played just like pretty much everybody everywhere is being played by the same agents of "the inevitable progress and modernity."

    But you are correct that the presence of Ukrainians in Poland will make Poles more susceptible to being manipulated and in the long run it will lead to the entrenchment of neoliberalism and ditching any chance for capitalism with a human face and thus everybody except for the plutocrats and oligarchs will be worse off. Sweden is being subjected to this operation. The successful welfare state of Sweden was offending sensibilities of bankers for decades and thus had to go. It was planting bad ideas in people's mind that neoliberalism might not necessarily be the end of history. No neoliberalism is the end of history and it is the desired end of history. This is what everybody is supposed to believe.

  120. @utu

    At one time, up to 1/10 of the population in Ukraine was Polish – they’ve all pretty much assimilated into Ukrainian society too.
     
    The assimilation was aided with Volhynia massacres of 100,000 or more Poles. Unfortunately nowadays Poles could not resort to similar methods to improve the rate of successful Ukrainian assimilation in Poland.

    Unfortunately nowadays Poles could not resort to similar methods to improve the rate of successful Ukrainian assimilation in Poland.

    Well, in the past the Poles had their own version of the Volyn Massacre called Akcia Wysla that was a forerunner of the later. Why do you say ‘unfortunately’ when referring to barbaric measures of the past. Shouldn’t people learn from their mistakes and try to move forward, or should they be eternally stuck in the quagmire that paralyzed both societies in the past?

    • Replies: @DreadIlk
    I can't speak for him but for me it means that it will be a bigger problem in the future. I rather shoot the boats then to deal with their descendants.
    , @Gerard2

    Shouldn’t people learn from their mistakes and try to move forward, or should they be eternally stuck in the quagmire that paralyzed both societies in the past?
     
    HAHAHAHA!- how shameless Mr Hack , you cretin. It's trailer trash banderatard idiots like yourself who actually MAKE A SPECIFIC TARGET of dragging Ukraine back - giving it some fictional history from 400-800-1200 years ago - all with the purpose of sabotaging the realities of today's Ukrainians ( mentality, language, culture , economy and so on)

    Talking of "learning from mistakes" when your existence on this blog involves imposing some BS from the Stone Age in the area of the fake country called "Ukraine"
    , @utu
    Operation Vistula and Volhyn Massacres cannot be put in the same sentence. The former consisted of deportations within Poland to Western and Northern former German territories in Poland where they moved up by 50-100 years in civilizational level in terms of infrastructure. At the same time NKVD was doing a similar operation in Ukraine but they, according to Wiki, killed 32,000. And how many families deported to Siberia or Kazakhstan died nobody knows.

    I used the 'unfortunately' in jest to let you know that your extolling the alleged assimilation of Poles in Ukraine was inappropriate in the context of circumstances they found themselves among the despicable people of the god forsaken place.
    , @AP

    Well, in the past the Poles had their own version of the Volyn Massacre called Akcia Wysla that was a forerunner of the later
     
    Akca Wysla came after Volhynian massacre and it was not really comparable - the former involved brutal slaughter of up to 100,00 people, the latter involved forced deportation (and probably a few hundred deaths).
  121. @SafeNow
    “blacks are more muscular and more aggressive”

    The biggest factor is that they hunt in packs. I have seen videos of a high school wrestler who easily shoots (pardon the wrestling expression) a takedown upon his larger black assailant. The problem is, a few seconds later, the wrestler is on the ground being kicked by the colleagues of the assailant. Unless you were the county track champ at 200 meters and are wearing your running shoes, the best strategy unfortunately is give a wide berth.

    AND if HE runs away, don’t think you’ve won; he’s just gathering his homies to come back and kick your ass.

  122. @Adam
    PiS politicians are not the totality of the Polish elite, there is a substantial neoliberal element too. Furthermore Polish youth are largely converging to western European norms (liberalism included). I really hope that there's some kind of paradigm shift in western Europe in the next couple decades, but otherwise a small country like Poland (or even the Visegrad group + Ukraine) simply does not have the resources to resist against the collective financial , political, and cultural power of the EU and the US which are utterly opposed to the existence of ethnic nation-states and traditional values.

    Just because some populists got elected does not mean the future of any nation is ensured. That kind of complacency is what allowed western states to be ruined gradually even though the majority of normal people were deeply opposed to demographic change and cultural revolution.

    That kind of complacency is what allowed western states to be ruined gradually even though the majority of normal people were deeply opposed to demographic change and cultural revolution.

    the biggest factor (imo) is television especially children’s.

    places where populists still have a chance need to set up their own TV station* and produce their own non-pozzed children’s entertainment**.

    * alternatively have a state funded TV station (like the BBC) but with *elected* commissioners who decide on what is allowed.

    ** or at least choose what is allowed to be shown, like old disney is fine.

    Polish youth are largely converging to western European norms (liberalism included)

    the foundation of pozworld is the blank slate ideology – funding research into genetics is the best way to undermine it.

    the truth leverages itself so even small countries or blocs with limited resources can take on big lies.

  123. @AP

    The most likely scenario is the migrants from Western Europe moving east and gradually taking over a few metropolitan areas.
     
    Yes, in your mind it is very likely that migrants will move from richer countries with generous benefits to poorer ones with almost no benefits. Even though they haven't started doing that after several years already, and indeed do the opposite (Poland hasn't taken any migrants but the Baltics took a few hundred; almost all of them moved freely to the Western EU as soon as they got their papers).

    in your mind it is very likely that migrants will move from richer countries with generous benefits to poorer ones with almost no benefits

    one of the main vectors is illegal immigrants working in ethnic restaurants.

    they are trafficked by the owners and stay because their extremely low pay is still higher than what they can earn in their home countries and eventually neolib traitors create amnesties for them which then leads to family migration etc.

    also a key point here is whether or not globalists want to either a) get rid of white people specifically or b) simply maximize divide and rule.

    either way it means they will actively encourage immigration e.g. resettling refugees in rural towns like in the states.

    also women – which is a bigger part of this than usually mentioned. a lot of the worst countries have a large surplus of males cos female infanticide etc.

    • Replies: @notanon
    https://blogs.worldbank.org/opendata/nearly-1-2-world-lives-under-550-day

    For example, in Indonesia and Pakistan, both lower-middle-income countries, only 7 and 5 percent of people live on less than $1.90 a day. However, 26 and 33 percent of the population in these countries live on less than $3.20 a day and more than two-thirds and three-fourths of the population live on less than $5.50 a day. Even in Mexico and China, both upper-middle-income countries, over 25 percent of the population lives on less than $5.50 a day.
     
  124. @Dmitry
    Economic success of Turkey (until now), is still pretty interesting.

    They managed it without having significant significant (enough to export) oil and gas. At the same time, with a brown population.

    the banking mafia off-shored western industry to various countries (China, Turkey, Brazil etc) which created the illusion those countries were doing well.

    the subsequent drop in demand in the west due to the loss of those jobs is why the globalist system is now crumbling and why the “emerging markets” are all going under (except high IQ China) – cos it was never indigenous, all external.

    (China was originally external i.e. off-shoring but they had the brains to build on that foundation.)

  125. @notanon

    in your mind it is very likely that migrants will move from richer countries with generous benefits to poorer ones with almost no benefits
     
    one of the main vectors is illegal immigrants working in ethnic restaurants.

    they are trafficked by the owners and stay because their extremely low pay is still higher than what they can earn in their home countries and eventually neolib traitors create amnesties for them which then leads to family migration etc.

    also a key point here is whether or not globalists want to either a) get rid of white people specifically or b) simply maximize divide and rule.

    either way it means they will actively encourage immigration e.g. resettling refugees in rural towns like in the states.

    also women - which is a bigger part of this than usually mentioned. a lot of the worst countries have a large surplus of males cos female infanticide etc.

    https://blogs.worldbank.org/opendata/nearly-1-2-world-lives-under-550-day

    For example, in Indonesia and Pakistan, both lower-middle-income countries, only 7 and 5 percent of people live on less than $1.90 a day. However, 26 and 33 percent of the population in these countries live on less than $3.20 a day and more than two-thirds and three-fourths of the population live on less than $5.50 a day. Even in Mexico and China, both upper-middle-income countries, over 25 percent of the population lives on less than $5.50 a day.

  126. @Mr. Hack

    Unfortunately nowadays Poles could not resort to similar methods to improve the rate of successful Ukrainian assimilation in Poland.
     
    Well, in the past the Poles had their own version of the Volyn Massacre called Akcia Wysla that was a forerunner of the later. Why do you say 'unfortunately' when referring to barbaric measures of the past. Shouldn't people learn from their mistakes and try to move forward, or should they be eternally stuck in the quagmire that paralyzed both societies in the past?

    I can’t speak for him but for me it means that it will be a bigger problem in the future. I rather shoot the boats then to deal with their descendants.

    • Disagree: Mr. Hack
  127. @utu
    Neither. Perhaps you should look at some data. I found this:

    https://www.latimes.com/world/africa/la-fg-russia-africans-20141102-story.html
    Some academics estimate Russia's African diaspora at just under 100,000, of which roughly one-third are believed to be undocumented. The remainder includes registered students, African embassy staff members and blacks who hold Russian citizenship.
     

    https://minorityrights.org/poland-sub-saharan-africans-and-the-struggle-for-acceptance/
    This included a sizeable number of sub-Saharan African citizens – not only students but also tourists, diplomats, business workers, professionals and refugees – who together now constitute a group of some 2,100 people.
     
    If true then my factor of 20 should be raised to 50.

    Some academics estimate Russia’s African diaspora at just under 100,000, of which roughly one-third are believed to be undocumented.

    Complete nonsense. Who the hell are these academics? Perhaps wisely, the article doesn’t clarify.

    Also practically none of them are becoming citizens: http://www.unz.com/akarlin/russian-immigration-2016/ (Nigeria: 26, Cameroon: 13, Sudan: 10; Congo: 6).

    • Replies: @utu
    Complete nonsense? Do some research and tell us how many Africans are currently residing in Russia? How many children did they produce while in Russia that will qualify for Russian citizenship that will not show up in the statistics that you quoted.
  128. LOL……….just when this farce couldn’t get more ridiculous, it turns out that the maggot Gabuniya from the Saakashvili channel Rustavi-2, who insulted our President and Russians in general……….is indeed a faggot – with the gen.director of the channel, Nika Gvaramiya!

    So- just a drama queen having his period and suffering withdrawal symptoms after the end of the “gay-pride’ freakshow event in Tbilisi.

  129. @Hail
    Person with 170k followers says he likes Trump today more than he did in 2016:

    https://twitter.com/marklutchman/status/1148003242883915777

    Mark Lutchman's claim to fame:



    https://twitter.com/marklutchman/status/1064294839825678336

    Counter-point:

    https://i1.wp.com/stonetoss.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/based-black-guy-comic1.png

    Where are the watermelons?

  130. @Mr. Hack

    Unfortunately nowadays Poles could not resort to similar methods to improve the rate of successful Ukrainian assimilation in Poland.
     
    Well, in the past the Poles had their own version of the Volyn Massacre called Akcia Wysla that was a forerunner of the later. Why do you say 'unfortunately' when referring to barbaric measures of the past. Shouldn't people learn from their mistakes and try to move forward, or should they be eternally stuck in the quagmire that paralyzed both societies in the past?

    Shouldn’t people learn from their mistakes and try to move forward, or should they be eternally stuck in the quagmire that paralyzed both societies in the past?

    HAHAHAHA!- how shameless Mr Hack , you cretin. It’s trailer trash banderatard idiots like yourself who actually MAKE A SPECIFIC TARGET of dragging Ukraine back – giving it some fictional history from 400-800-1200 years ago – all with the purpose of sabotaging the realities of today’s Ukrainians ( mentality, language, culture , economy and so on)

    Talking of “learning from mistakes” when your existence on this blog involves imposing some BS from the Stone Age in the area of the fake country called “Ukraine”

    • Troll: Mr. Hack
  131. g2k says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    Getting a car not in the ~top 10 of popularity is not a good idea for people on a budget in principle because whatever marginal benefits in quality you get will be swamped by greater costs in mechanical servicing. But FWIW, I am currently pondering between the Lada Vesta and the Skoda Rapid. I'll go testing tomorrow.

    Your biggest costs will be purchase, insurance, fuel and whatever anti-car taxes the city authorities impose in the near future (if moscow is becoming as bobo as you claim). Servicing isn’t that expensive. I’m not sure what the parts situation is like in Russia, but in England ‘premium’ marques have only slightly more expensive spares, as long as you’re not dumb enough to go to main dealers for them. You’d need to get something seriously exotic before the premium becomes unaffordable (Ferrari etc, even Porsche parts aren’t that bad) Mechanics’ labor ought to be much cheaper over there as a fraction of a moscow professional’s salary. Ever since mechanical ignition and carburetors were phased out in the early 90s car reliability has been a non-issue and fussing over it is a boomer pathology. If you want to buy a Lada out of patriotism, then go for it, but don’t rationalise. An uaz jeep would be much cooler though.

  132. LatW says:
    @utu
    I did agree with your line of arguments because you dealt well with the nonsense brought up by Adam however you went too far and your spin is too strong. Things do not look as good as you paint them. (1) Poland is bringing way too many workers from Asia. Poland has no means to deport them when/if their work visas expire. In practice they all will become permanent residents and once they have children they will be parents of Polish citizens. (2) Poland does not put much effort in repatriating Poles from Russia and Ukraine and does nothing for Poles in Lithuania and Belarus. (3) Most importantly the influx of Ukrainians is way too big. Ukrainians will not assimilate, so an ethnic minority (most likely hostile) is being created in a mono-ethnic country.

    In practice they all will become permanent residents and once they have children they will be parents of Polish citizens.

    Indeed, utu, this is far from ideal and, as you see, a few years of high growth was all it took (also, globalization is very fast now, it seems like the last 10 years the movement of people everywhere has accelerated).

    Poland does not put much effort in repatriating Poles from Russia

    This is indeed an untapped pool. I encountered a couple of what they call in Russian “repatrianti” in the Baltic states. They were totally Russified grandkids of someone that got sent to Siberia but very open to learning the language and staying. These are very tiny groups of people, but in Poland’s case it might be a larger number, and might be worth tapping into. Also, it’s kind of our duty to those people…

    Most importantly the influx of Ukrainians is way too big.

    I understand. Ukraine is going through a very hard time, so I believe they should be treated well (have insurance, get paid on time, etc), we have them, too, they are diligent and nice people. However, it might be too many in Poland, I agree. I really hope some of them will go back to Ukraine, because if you look at this issue from Ukraine’s point of view, they’re losing people that they themselves will need.

    Ideally, all of the E.Europeans who are willing to repatriate, should be able to return. Measures are being taken to help people return, but they’re not sufficient. In Poland’s case, this would be a huge number of people and would solve the labor shortage problem.

    • Replies: @utu
    Agree. Countries like Poland and Baltic states that are attractive to Ukrainians and Belarusians should change their naturalization laws. The only naturalization should be possible via marriage and children born to a permanent residents should not be granted citizenship automatically as it used to be in Germany and every law violation by a permanent resident should end up in the immigration court where deportation should be considered. And no unemployment benefits to work visa/permanent residents.
  133. @DreadIlk
    The guy accused wasn't the perpetrator. He turned him self in. Other caucasians were busted and the guy that flew away will be extradited. But otherwise yes Russians are a little bit cucked in their nationalism. Difference is they need like 40 years to get to the cuckiness of the west.

    Thanks for that info. Well, for Nikita’s mom and girlfriend it doesn’t matter. Nobody wants their son or boyfriend around those hotheads. Kadyrov’s men did crazy things in Donbass.

  134. LatW says:
    @Beckow

    from richer countries with generous benefits to poorer ones with almost no benefits.
     
    Visegrad countries are richer than parts of the West overrun by migrants. They also have great benefits by any standards (well, maybe Poland doesn't, their benefits are marching around woods scaring themselves silly).

    You are also comparing current situation to the future, the relative attractiveness of V4 is growing. Even today Prague and Bratislava are in the top 10 EU regions in GNP/capita.

    For almost anyone among the 5 billion potential migrants in the Third World, V4 would be a paradise. They go to UK-Germany-France-Sweden because of languages and already existing tribal networks - and because those countries are run by liberal morons. Brussels wants to spread it, and last time I checked they were the ones making the rules.

    Totally agree, there will be many who want to live there, it is already evident. The migrants are also learning the local languages (this is new). We need to make it clear conceptually that we are not aspiring to the Western living standards and that it is not our goal to be like the West (this doesn’t mean the living standards have to be low at all and in some cases will be higher, as in access to medical care, high culture, etc).

    • Replies: @utu
    "we are not aspiring to the Western living standards and that it is not our goal to be like the West"

    Untenable. If there is no growth you will loose your productive population to emigration and unless you bring up the replacement immigrants you will end up with a skansen where Westerners will be coming to milk cows and smell natural pig manure on their eco-safaris.

    The problem seems to be unsolvable. However the pressure of business lobby that wants cheap labor definitively must be resisted as much as possible. Wages and salaries in Eastern Europe must be put on par with those in Austria, Germany and France. But I do not know how to accomplish this w/o breaking the back of economy.
  135. @AP

    EU itself was 2% Muslim in 2015, but this number is a lot higher now. Perhaps 4% or even 5%

    It doubled in less than 5 years and that isn’t concerning to you?
     
    It doubled because of a large wave that has now largely ended.

    https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/17684/production/_105067859_illegalcrossings640-nc.png

    A wave that never touched Visegrad. It would have to double yet again to get to where Russia is now already.

    Furthermore, Africans and other problematic non-Muslim immigrants are just a much a threat as the Muslims.
     
    And just as unlikely to move to Visegrad.

    They will do this why

    Because in 10-20 years Poland will be much richer and more liberal while the western countries will rapidly decline in their ability to support more parasites
     
    LOL, you believe this? Poland is so far behind Germany that it will not come close to converging in 10-20 or even 50 years. It closed the gap from having 1/3 Gemany's per capita GDP PPP to about 60% and has been stable at that level:

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.CD?locations=PL-DE

    PP has shown that Poland is becoming more secular, but not more liberal with respect to migrants.

    Try as hard as you possibly can to understand the concept that things change over time
     
    Try to look at trends in data rather than relying on (negative) wishful thinking about "things changing over time."

    Russia is somehow the better alternative

    The majority of Russian Muslims are Tatars and Bashkirs who are completely civilized and secular.
     
    Chechens, Afghans, and Iraqis were once fairly secular. You just wrote "Try as hard as you possibly can to understand the concept that things change over time." Lol.

    More importantly, Russia puts absolutely no pressure on their sphere to accept Chechens or Kazahks. Compared to the US and EU which are ideologically committed to destroying homogenous nation states in Europe.
     
    Poland and Hungary have had no trouble staving off efforts to settle their countries with small numbers of refugees.

    Compared to EU and ES, Russia is in a customs union with 2 Muslim countries. Putin wants others to join.

    LOL, you believe this? Poland is so far behind Germany that it will not come close to converging in 10-20 or even 50 years. It closed the gap from having 1/3 Gemany’s per capita GDP PPP to about 60% and has been stable at that level:

    Considering that Poland and Germany have comparable average IQs, eventual convergence–maybe in 50 years or so–is certainly very possible–especially if large-scale low-IQ immigration is going to reduce Germany’s average IQ even further (according to PISA, migrants are already significantly bringing down Germany’s average IQ).

    Compared to EU and ES, Russia is in a customs union with 2 Muslim countries. Putin wants others to join.

    This customs union is unlikely to progress much beyond that since even ex-USSR Muslim countries are unwilling to give up their independence, though.

    Also, Ukrainians themselves voted for an EU-style economic union with tens of millions of Central Asian Muslims back in March 1991. Apparently this idea wasn’t so scary for Ukrainians back then.

  136. utu says:
    @LatW

    In practice they all will become permanent residents and once they have children they will be parents of Polish citizens.
     
    Indeed, utu, this is far from ideal and, as you see, a few years of high growth was all it took (also, globalization is very fast now, it seems like the last 10 years the movement of people everywhere has accelerated).

    Poland does not put much effort in repatriating Poles from Russia
     
    This is indeed an untapped pool. I encountered a couple of what they call in Russian "repatrianti" in the Baltic states. They were totally Russified grandkids of someone that got sent to Siberia but very open to learning the language and staying. These are very tiny groups of people, but in Poland's case it might be a larger number, and might be worth tapping into. Also, it's kind of our duty to those people...

    Most importantly the influx of Ukrainians is way too big.
     
    I understand. Ukraine is going through a very hard time, so I believe they should be treated well (have insurance, get paid on time, etc), we have them, too, they are diligent and nice people. However, it might be too many in Poland, I agree. I really hope some of them will go back to Ukraine, because if you look at this issue from Ukraine's point of view, they're losing people that they themselves will need.

    Ideally, all of the E.Europeans who are willing to repatriate, should be able to return. Measures are being taken to help people return, but they're not sufficient. In Poland's case, this would be a huge number of people and would solve the labor shortage problem.

    Agree. Countries like Poland and Baltic states that are attractive to Ukrainians and Belarusians should change their naturalization laws. The only naturalization should be possible via marriage and children born to a permanent residents should not be granted citizenship automatically as it used to be in Germany and every law violation by a permanent resident should end up in the immigration court where deportation should be considered. And no unemployment benefits to work visa/permanent residents.

  137. utu says:
    @Mr. Hack

    Unfortunately nowadays Poles could not resort to similar methods to improve the rate of successful Ukrainian assimilation in Poland.
     
    Well, in the past the Poles had their own version of the Volyn Massacre called Akcia Wysla that was a forerunner of the later. Why do you say 'unfortunately' when referring to barbaric measures of the past. Shouldn't people learn from their mistakes and try to move forward, or should they be eternally stuck in the quagmire that paralyzed both societies in the past?

    Operation Vistula and Volhyn Massacres cannot be put in the same sentence. The former consisted of deportations within Poland to Western and Northern former German territories in Poland where they moved up by 50-100 years in civilizational level in terms of infrastructure. At the same time NKVD was doing a similar operation in Ukraine but they, according to Wiki, killed 32,000. And how many families deported to Siberia or Kazakhstan died nobody knows.

    I used the ‘unfortunately’ in jest to let you know that your extolling the alleged assimilation of Poles in Ukraine was inappropriate in the context of circumstances they found themselves among the despicable people of the god forsaken place.

    • LOL: Mr. Hack
  138. utu says:
    @LatW
    Totally agree, there will be many who want to live there, it is already evident. The migrants are also learning the local languages (this is new). We need to make it clear conceptually that we are not aspiring to the Western living standards and that it is not our goal to be like the West (this doesn't mean the living standards have to be low at all and in some cases will be higher, as in access to medical care, high culture, etc).

    “we are not aspiring to the Western living standards and that it is not our goal to be like the West”

    Untenable. If there is no growth you will loose your productive population to emigration and unless you bring up the replacement immigrants you will end up with a skansen where Westerners will be coming to milk cows and smell natural pig manure on their eco-safaris.

    The problem seems to be unsolvable. However the pressure of business lobby that wants cheap labor definitively must be resisted as much as possible. Wages and salaries in Eastern Europe must be put on par with those in Austria, Germany and France. But I do not know how to accomplish this w/o breaking the back of economy.

  139. utu says:
    @Beckow

    ...this can’t be expected from Ukrainians particulary in large numbers
     
    An interesting feature of eastern Europe (and probably elsewhere) is that closely related groups often end up disliking or even hating each other when in a single country. Life has its share of day-to-day resentments and disappointments - and a competitive group dynamic kicks in.

    What is even worse is that a society that is already partially divided - let's say Poles, Ukrainians, Silesians with an ambivalent attitude to each other - create a situation where there are incentives to bring in more outsiders, often as a tool against the others.

    Look at Canada and the way Quebec is slowly self-destructing by trying to attract 'French-speaking migrants' - because having a lot of Haitians and Senegalese is so much better for everyone. At the end it leads to atomised, mutually hostile societies that are easily manipulated from the top. That's the point, if you are missing it, you don't get the underlying dynamic.

    “An interesting feature of eastern Europe…”

    Nothing is interesting about it. Eastern European nationalism is younger and thus more virulent. Furthermore there is the effect of the familiarity breeds contempt and der Narzissmus der kleinen Differenzen.

    As far as Quebec is concerned you are trivializing the issue. They are not that dumb to believe that Haitians would help them with Anglos from Ontario but rather powerless to resist effectively manipulation they are subjected to. So they are played just like pretty much everybody everywhere is being played by the same agents of “the inevitable progress and modernity.”

    But you are correct that the presence of Ukrainians in Poland will make Poles more susceptible to being manipulated and in the long run it will lead to the entrenchment of neoliberalism and ditching any chance for capitalism with a human face and thus everybody except for the plutocrats and oligarchs will be worse off. Sweden is being subjected to this operation. The successful welfare state of Sweden was offending sensibilities of bankers for decades and thus had to go. It was planting bad ideas in people’s mind that neoliberalism might not necessarily be the end of history. No neoliberalism is the end of history and it is the desired end of history. This is what everybody is supposed to believe.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    Quebec is powerless because they focus on the wrong stuff, enhancing their 'Frenchness'. Something similar is happening all over: Poles, Ukrainians, Russians fight each other about historical stuff that won't make one iota of difference in the future. If Europe is gone as a European civilization, the precise boundaries, and who controls the few refuges for white Europeans will be only of minimal interest. It is hard to sustain those enclaves in the long run if the dominant culture in Europe becomes something else.

    I agree that Sweden was offending a lot of finance elites - it had to be undermined, and they found a way. But there was also an internal weakness that snuck in, maybe the prosperity, maybe something deeper.

    With neoliberalism and its global dreams, I have started to drop the 'neo' and simply refer to it as 'liberalism'. Same way as what we have is simply 'capitalism'. Let's call spade a spade. Liberalism has had a great run, it fits human nature quite well, we are selfish, acquisitive, and easily bought. What liberalism cannot sustain is an ongoing civilization that can perpetuate itself. Liberalism' obsession with 'laissez faire' leads to inactivity. Liberalism fatal weakness can be summarizes as 'there is no economic or hedonistic value in having a family'. So liberalism is inherently going to over time destroy any society - it is simply not possible to go on without normal family creation. What is fascinating is that most liberals don't care - they are true end-of-liners.

  140. Georgians played along perfectly – Russia can now institute total economic blockade and point to subhuman behavior for provoking them.

    The sanctions and total economic warfare should have been imposed long time ago – since 2008.

  141. @Anatoly Karlin

    Some academics estimate Russia's African diaspora at just under 100,000, of which roughly one-third are believed to be undocumented.
     
    Complete nonsense. Who the hell are these academics? Perhaps wisely, the article doesn't clarify.

    Also practically none of them are becoming citizens: http://www.unz.com/akarlin/russian-immigration-2016/ (Nigeria: 26, Cameroon: 13, Sudan: 10; Congo: 6).

    Complete nonsense? Do some research and tell us how many Africans are currently residing in Russia? How many children did they produce while in Russia that will qualify for Russian citizenship that will not show up in the statistics that you quoted.

    • Replies: @utu

    Russia has a population of 144 million people but only 70,000 of them are black.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-44253936/world-cup-2018-being-black-in-russia
     
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    Look, the point is that with 100,000 Negroes in Russia, you would be seeing packs of them every single day in Moscow whenever you use the metro.

    In reality, I see them about 2-3 times a month - and I do get out quite a bit. They are almost invariably either tourists or student types.

    I don't need some hack from the BBC who laments that Russia has too few Negroes to lecture me about my lying eyes.
  142. @utu
    Complete nonsense? Do some research and tell us how many Africans are currently residing in Russia? How many children did they produce while in Russia that will qualify for Russian citizenship that will not show up in the statistics that you quoted.

    Russia has a population of 144 million people but only 70,000 of them are black.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-44253936/world-cup-2018-being-black-in-russia

  143. @utu
    Complete nonsense? Do some research and tell us how many Africans are currently residing in Russia? How many children did they produce while in Russia that will qualify for Russian citizenship that will not show up in the statistics that you quoted.

    Look, the point is that with 100,000 Negroes in Russia, you would be seeing packs of them every single day in Moscow whenever you use the metro.

    In reality, I see them about 2-3 times a month – and I do get out quite a bit. They are almost invariably either tourists or student types.

    I don’t need some hack from the BBC who laments that Russia has too few Negroes to lecture me about my lying eyes.

    • Replies: @utu
    I do not follow your logic. The BBC hack is not lecturing your lying eyes. He is agreeing with them that there are only 70,000 out there. But perhaps you are right and the number is much lower.

    Russia is not a place known for its large African community. Afro-Russians, as many like to be known, make up only roughly 40 000 of its population of more than 144 million.
    https://citizen.co.za/news/news-world/1965705/if-you-thought-there-were-no-black-russians-you-were-wrong/
     
    , @Mr. XYZ
    Didn't AP previously say that there are 20,000 blacks in Ukraine, though? Russia is three times more populous than Ukraine, so if the Ukrainian figure is accurate, 60,000 blacks in Russia wouldn't seem too unreasonable.

    Your personal observations might suggest a much lower number of blacks, though. Of course, you haven't actually been everywhere in Russia.
    , @Not Raul
    If anyone is afraid that the Crips will get them in Russia, they can move to the Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic like Weev.
  144. @Dmitry
    Adidas can also be sponsor of traditional local sports

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eiY6n0llMk

    That’s right. There’s something martial about the tracksuit. They should have a special gopnik tracksuit brand (with hoodies). They could call it “Rayon”.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    It's nice, but the striped trouser has not been cool since about 20 years ago.

    In Yakutsk, kids can afford some nice costumes -
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lExyDuFpffA

  145. Drudge / Daily Mail breathlessly reporting that a Russian journalist has been charged in Orwellian crime. Hmmm, I can’t read the Russian but sounds a little strange.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7228375/Russian-journalist-charged-controlling-mindsby-referencing-Orwells-1984-article.html

    https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/4025487

  146. @AP
    Poland: another country whiter than Russia and far whiter than wherever neutral lives. And will remain so.

    [MORE]

    Poland: another country whiter than Russia and far whiter than wherever neutral lives. And will remain so.

    LOL you prick ( I would have thought the debacle of your “linguistic expertise’ would have relegated a POS as you to never appear on here again, but this doesn’t appear to be the case)
    Poland isn’t a “white country” in the sense of what people are thinking when they use the term

    There is white..and then there is “white” in the sense of white civilization – intellectual and cultural superiority together with their skin colour – comprised of Europe and the English speaking world of US, NZ, Canada and Australia.

    Obviously Poland doesn’t classify as “white” in that sense you idiot because it has been an intellectual and cultural blackhole of Europe for centuries ( honourable exceptions for Copernicus, then Kosier – communist leader of Ukraine immediately leading upto the William randolph-Hearst – Coca-cola-World-Series ‘Golodomor” , and Dzherzinsky as Poles have nobody else at all to idolise) .
    Poland is essentially defined by failure against Russia ( Russia defeating polish barbarism) – any “whiteness” or”pseudo-catholicism” in Poland artificial and masks a massive drain in population there in the last 20 years – exporting human trafficking, drug smuggling, extreme cases of robbery, drunken car crashes and domestic violence into otherwise civilised countries in the EU ( like the UK, where Poles in British are by far the highest foreign national in prisons – even though there are large numbers of long-time populations from Ireland, african countries and India/Pakistan)

    Crisis in EU is from 3 things –

    1.direction of Italy – which would almost certainly not be in the strongly anti-EU government it is now, if parasite Poland accepted 40000 immigrants ( a country that unlike sucessful and stable Czech rep, Hungary and Slovakia is not a net exporter of people but has kept it’s population the same for 25+ years should not allowed to refuse to make even basic concessions)

    2. Russia relations – Sure, mainly America drives this, but after that it is Poland driving the idiotic policy towards Russia – a policy where Moldova, Gruzia and of course, Ukropia keep f**king-up even more extravagantly by the month –
    Russia – a country that survives or wins against all odds, Poland – a country that fails despite all the odds in favour of them

    3. UK relations with EU – Brexit is solely due to the poles – that refusal for migrant concession but mainly because of immigration – Indians, Afro-carribeans and Irish ( some chinese) have been in Britain for decades or even over a century – but it is only from when mass waves of immigrants from Poland arrived ( not Romanians, Albanians or anyone else who were the problem) since 2004 that there has been developed severe distate towards the EU, centred on immigration, in Britain

  147. utu says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    Look, the point is that with 100,000 Negroes in Russia, you would be seeing packs of them every single day in Moscow whenever you use the metro.

    In reality, I see them about 2-3 times a month - and I do get out quite a bit. They are almost invariably either tourists or student types.

    I don't need some hack from the BBC who laments that Russia has too few Negroes to lecture me about my lying eyes.

    I do not follow your logic. The BBC hack is not lecturing your lying eyes. He is agreeing with them that there are only 70,000 out there. But perhaps you are right and the number is much lower.

    Russia is not a place known for its large African community. Afro-Russians, as many like to be known, make up only roughly 40 000 of its population of more than 144 million.
    https://citizen.co.za/news/news-world/1965705/if-you-thought-there-were-no-black-russians-you-were-wrong/

    • Troll: Anonymoose
    • Replies: @Anon
    I thought AK was trolling you but he appears to be serious.

    HK has at least c. ~40000 South Asians. How many of them do you see, say, in the video below?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3ZCeKvyZWo
  148. @Anatoly Karlin
    Look, the point is that with 100,000 Negroes in Russia, you would be seeing packs of them every single day in Moscow whenever you use the metro.

    In reality, I see them about 2-3 times a month - and I do get out quite a bit. They are almost invariably either tourists or student types.

    I don't need some hack from the BBC who laments that Russia has too few Negroes to lecture me about my lying eyes.

    Didn’t AP previously say that there are 20,000 blacks in Ukraine, though? Russia is three times more populous than Ukraine, so if the Ukrainian figure is accurate, 60,000 blacks in Russia wouldn’t seem too unreasonable.

    Your personal observations might suggest a much lower number of blacks, though. Of course, you haven’t actually been everywhere in Russia.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Moscow and SPB - slightly more than ten percent of RF's population - is where almost all Negroes in Russia are concentrated.

    One in a thousand might well be the correct figure for specifically Moscow. In the provinces, they are singular curiosities.

    Frankly I think AP is wrong on 20,000 Negroes in the Ukraine, if he actually said that.
  149. 100,000 blacks out of a population of 148 (or 146) million is less than 0.10%. Thus, less than 1 in 1,000 Russians are actually going to be black even if this figure is accurate–which would mean that you shouldn’t see blacks in Russia too frequently unless a lot of them live in one place (specifically a place close to where you are).

  150. @utu
    "An interesting feature of eastern Europe..."

    Nothing is interesting about it. Eastern European nationalism is younger and thus more virulent. Furthermore there is the effect of the familiarity breeds contempt and der Narzissmus der kleinen Differenzen.

    As far as Quebec is concerned you are trivializing the issue. They are not that dumb to believe that Haitians would help them with Anglos from Ontario but rather powerless to resist effectively manipulation they are subjected to. So they are played just like pretty much everybody everywhere is being played by the same agents of "the inevitable progress and modernity."

    But you are correct that the presence of Ukrainians in Poland will make Poles more susceptible to being manipulated and in the long run it will lead to the entrenchment of neoliberalism and ditching any chance for capitalism with a human face and thus everybody except for the plutocrats and oligarchs will be worse off. Sweden is being subjected to this operation. The successful welfare state of Sweden was offending sensibilities of bankers for decades and thus had to go. It was planting bad ideas in people's mind that neoliberalism might not necessarily be the end of history. No neoliberalism is the end of history and it is the desired end of history. This is what everybody is supposed to believe.

    Quebec is powerless because they focus on the wrong stuff, enhancing their ‘Frenchness’. Something similar is happening all over: Poles, Ukrainians, Russians fight each other about historical stuff that won’t make one iota of difference in the future. If Europe is gone as a European civilization, the precise boundaries, and who controls the few refuges for white Europeans will be only of minimal interest. It is hard to sustain those enclaves in the long run if the dominant culture in Europe becomes something else.

    I agree that Sweden was offending a lot of finance elites – it had to be undermined, and they found a way. But there was also an internal weakness that snuck in, maybe the prosperity, maybe something deeper.

    With neoliberalism and its global dreams, I have started to drop the ‘neo’ and simply refer to it as ‘liberalism’. Same way as what we have is simply ‘capitalism’. Let’s call spade a spade. Liberalism has had a great run, it fits human nature quite well, we are selfish, acquisitive, and easily bought. What liberalism cannot sustain is an ongoing civilization that can perpetuate itself. Liberalism’ obsession with ‘laissez faire’ leads to inactivity. Liberalism fatal weakness can be summarizes as ‘there is no economic or hedonistic value in having a family‘. So liberalism is inherently going to over time destroy any society – it is simply not possible to go on without normal family creation. What is fascinating is that most liberals don’t care – they are true end-of-liners.

    • Agree: Epigon
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Liberalism and neoliberalism are different, in the modern sense. That's why they had to invent this new word "neoliberalism", because they changed the meaning of the original concept liberalism to match something more like "social democrat".

    Neoliberalism - Fujimori, Pinochet, Thatcher, Berlusconi, Bolsonaro, Orban, Netanyahu, etc.

    Liberalism - Obama, Sweden, Jacinda Ardern, views of BBC, New York Times, etc.

  151. @Mr. XYZ
    Didn't AP previously say that there are 20,000 blacks in Ukraine, though? Russia is three times more populous than Ukraine, so if the Ukrainian figure is accurate, 60,000 blacks in Russia wouldn't seem too unreasonable.

    Your personal observations might suggest a much lower number of blacks, though. Of course, you haven't actually been everywhere in Russia.

    Moscow and SPB – slightly more than ten percent of RF’s population – is where almost all Negroes in Russia are concentrated.

    One in a thousand might well be the correct figure for specifically Moscow. In the provinces, they are singular curiosities.

    Frankly I think AP is wrong on 20,000 Negroes in the Ukraine, if he actually said that.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    I think 20,000 is the credible max for Russia, though I suspect it's closer to 10,000.

    Ukraine would be in the low thousands, like Poland. Less tourism than in Russia, but possibly more students relative to population, since the Ukraine is even cheaper than Russia.
    , @AP

    Frankly I think AP is wrong on 20,000 Negroes in the Ukraine, if he actually said that.
     
    I certainly did not say that.
  152. @Anatoly Karlin
    Moscow and SPB - slightly more than ten percent of RF's population - is where almost all Negroes in Russia are concentrated.

    One in a thousand might well be the correct figure for specifically Moscow. In the provinces, they are singular curiosities.

    Frankly I think AP is wrong on 20,000 Negroes in the Ukraine, if he actually said that.

    I think 20,000 is the credible max for Russia, though I suspect it’s closer to 10,000.

    Ukraine would be in the low thousands, like Poland. Less tourism than in Russia, but possibly more students relative to population, since the Ukraine is even cheaper than Russia.

    • Replies: @utu
    20k? Just do not count these Russian blacks:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu8jvGKCMLY
  153. @LatW
    That's right. There's something martial about the tracksuit. They should have a special gopnik tracksuit brand (with hoodies). They could call it "Rayon".

    It’s nice, but the striped trouser has not been cool since about 20 years ago.

    In Yakutsk, kids can afford some nice costumes –

  154. @Anatoly Karlin
    I think 20,000 is the credible max for Russia, though I suspect it's closer to 10,000.

    Ukraine would be in the low thousands, like Poland. Less tourism than in Russia, but possibly more students relative to population, since the Ukraine is even cheaper than Russia.

    20k? Just do not count these Russian blacks:

  155. @Beckow
    Quebec is powerless because they focus on the wrong stuff, enhancing their 'Frenchness'. Something similar is happening all over: Poles, Ukrainians, Russians fight each other about historical stuff that won't make one iota of difference in the future. If Europe is gone as a European civilization, the precise boundaries, and who controls the few refuges for white Europeans will be only of minimal interest. It is hard to sustain those enclaves in the long run if the dominant culture in Europe becomes something else.

    I agree that Sweden was offending a lot of finance elites - it had to be undermined, and they found a way. But there was also an internal weakness that snuck in, maybe the prosperity, maybe something deeper.

    With neoliberalism and its global dreams, I have started to drop the 'neo' and simply refer to it as 'liberalism'. Same way as what we have is simply 'capitalism'. Let's call spade a spade. Liberalism has had a great run, it fits human nature quite well, we are selfish, acquisitive, and easily bought. What liberalism cannot sustain is an ongoing civilization that can perpetuate itself. Liberalism' obsession with 'laissez faire' leads to inactivity. Liberalism fatal weakness can be summarizes as 'there is no economic or hedonistic value in having a family'. So liberalism is inherently going to over time destroy any society - it is simply not possible to go on without normal family creation. What is fascinating is that most liberals don't care - they are true end-of-liners.

    Liberalism and neoliberalism are different, in the modern sense. That’s why they had to invent this new word “neoliberalism”, because they changed the meaning of the original concept liberalism to match something more like “social democrat”.

    Neoliberalism – Fujimori, Pinochet, Thatcher, Berlusconi, Bolsonaro, Orban, Netanyahu, etc.

    Liberalism – Obama, Sweden, Jacinda Ardern, views of BBC, New York Times, etc.

    • Disagree: utu
    • Replies: @Beckow

    ....neoliberalism - because they changed the meaning of the original concept liberalism to match something more like “social democrat”.
     
    There is not even remote similarity between neoliberalism and social democracy, so claiming it is odd. Social democracy largely disappeared by 1990's, what has carried the name since then are the usual centrist liberal policies with more emphasis on preserving pensions or longer vacation time.

    Looking at individual leaders is pointless - they have almost all been de facto liberals for the last 20-30 years. What they disagree on - or pretend to disagree - could fit on a small index card: abortion, pension age, how many F-15 planes to buy, congestion charges, and whether to attack Russia now or wait until it gets weaker (or Iran, N Korea, Venezuela, etc...). Western leaders are inter-changeable.

    Trump is a non-conformist who irritates the elites, but he is in his actions within the liberal mainstream. There is a lot of noise, but no change. We are also seeing a new generation of clowns among leaders and that is interesting, since historically young clowns grow up to be servants. Go figure.

  156. Putin’s interview with the Financial Times.

  157. AP says:
    @utu

    At one time, up to 1/10 of the population in Ukraine was Polish – they’ve all pretty much assimilated into Ukrainian society too.
     
    The assimilation was aided with Volhynia massacres of 100,000 or more Poles. Unfortunately nowadays Poles could not resort to similar methods to improve the rate of successful Ukrainian assimilation in Poland.

    The assimilation was aided with Volhynia massacres of 100,000 or more Poles.

    I think he was referring to the Polish population of central Ukraine in the 18th century. About 10% of the population then were ethnic Poles (petty nobles, and Mazovian peasants who settled due to lighter serfdom). These were almost all assimilated into Ukrainian culture by the late 19th century. Peasants intermarried with peasants, petty gentry with petty gentry. The only Poles who didn’t assimilate were the very wealthy nobles. Gogol (from Poltava region, further East) was 1/4 Polish, this was typical.

    If I am not mistaken, Mr. Hack is of mixed Polish and Ukrainian descent.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Polish migration into Ukraine goes much further back than the 18th century. Also, I strongly suspect that the major Slavic tribe for both nations, the Polianins, were the same or at least very closely related. How else can one account for the great similarity in DNA structure between Poles and Ukrainians?
    My mother, a fiery Ukrainian patriot, never allowed me to appreciate her father's Polish background - I guess she didn't want me to grow up with any complexes. :-) I found out about this while visiting Ukraine. My other three grandparents were all Ukrainians.
  158. @Anatoly Karlin
    Moscow and SPB - slightly more than ten percent of RF's population - is where almost all Negroes in Russia are concentrated.

    One in a thousand might well be the correct figure for specifically Moscow. In the provinces, they are singular curiosities.

    Frankly I think AP is wrong on 20,000 Negroes in the Ukraine, if he actually said that.

    Frankly I think AP is wrong on 20,000 Negroes in the Ukraine, if he actually said that.

    I certainly did not say that.

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    Actually, you did--slightly over a year ago:

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/the-rights-human-capital-problem/#comment-2354330
  159. @AP

    The assimilation was aided with Volhynia massacres of 100,000 or more Poles.
     
    I think he was referring to the Polish population of central Ukraine in the 18th century. About 10% of the population then were ethnic Poles (petty nobles, and Mazovian peasants who settled due to lighter serfdom). These were almost all assimilated into Ukrainian culture by the late 19th century. Peasants intermarried with peasants, petty gentry with petty gentry. The only Poles who didn't assimilate were the very wealthy nobles. Gogol (from Poltava region, further East) was 1/4 Polish, this was typical.

    If I am not mistaken, Mr. Hack is of mixed Polish and Ukrainian descent.

    Polish migration into Ukraine goes much further back than the 18th century. Also, I strongly suspect that the major Slavic tribe for both nations, the Polianins, were the same or at least very closely related. How else can one account for the great similarity in DNA structure between Poles and Ukrainians?
    My mother, a fiery Ukrainian patriot, never allowed me to appreciate her father’s Polish background – I guess she didn’t want me to grow up with any complexes. 🙂 I found out about this while visiting Ukraine. My other three grandparents were all Ukrainians.

    • Replies: @AP
    Ukrainians are very close to Poles, however the order of genetic proximity is:

    1. Belarussians
    2. Slovaks
    3. Russians
    4. Poles
  160. How else can one account for the great similarity in DNA structure between Poles and Ukrainians?

    Depends on an individual basis. In many other instances can read as: How else can one account for the great similarity in DNA structure between Russians and Ukrainians?

    BTW, Polish ancestry among Russian nobles and non-nobles is evident as well. Cheers to the late great Kiev born Russian inventor/patriot Igor Sikorsky.

  161. @Dmitry
    Liberalism and neoliberalism are different, in the modern sense. That's why they had to invent this new word "neoliberalism", because they changed the meaning of the original concept liberalism to match something more like "social democrat".

    Neoliberalism - Fujimori, Pinochet, Thatcher, Berlusconi, Bolsonaro, Orban, Netanyahu, etc.

    Liberalism - Obama, Sweden, Jacinda Ardern, views of BBC, New York Times, etc.

    ….neoliberalism – because they changed the meaning of the original concept liberalism to match something more like “social democrat”.

    There is not even remote similarity between neoliberalism and social democracy, so claiming it is odd. Social democracy largely disappeared by 1990’s, what has carried the name since then are the usual centrist liberal policies with more emphasis on preserving pensions or longer vacation time.

    Looking at individual leaders is pointless – they have almost all been de facto liberals for the last 20-30 years. What they disagree on – or pretend to disagree – could fit on a small index card: abortion, pension age, how many F-15 planes to buy, congestion charges, and whether to attack Russia now or wait until it gets weaker (or Iran, N Korea, Venezuela, etc…). Western leaders are inter-changeable.

    Trump is a non-conformist who irritates the elites, but he is in his actions within the liberal mainstream. There is a lot of noise, but no change. We are also seeing a new generation of clowns among leaders and that is interesting, since historically young clowns grow up to be servants. Go figure.

    • Replies: @notanon
    i think he was saying liberalism (original unfettered capitalism) had turned into social democracy so the return to unfettered capitalism (with added poz) was dubbed neoliberalism.
    , @Dmitry
    Liberalism until the early 20th century, refers to something like ideology of people like Thomas Jefferson, and this ideology was generally supported by 19th century bourgeoisie.

    What happens in the 20th century, is the meaning of the word is changed to refer to "social democrat".

    So then this is why word "neo-liberalism" is invented (in 1970s or 1980s), actually by leftwing people. It refers to an ideology which was hated by leftwing people, which is a return of 19th century concept of liberalism.

    Neo-liberal leaders are Thatcher, Pinochet, Fujimori, and today people like Orban.

    It's more an economic ideology. However, generally, it's quite good in relation to immigration. For example, Thatcher has been more selective with immigration compared to the other British leaders.
  162. AP says:
    @Mr. Hack

    Unfortunately nowadays Poles could not resort to similar methods to improve the rate of successful Ukrainian assimilation in Poland.
     
    Well, in the past the Poles had their own version of the Volyn Massacre called Akcia Wysla that was a forerunner of the later. Why do you say 'unfortunately' when referring to barbaric measures of the past. Shouldn't people learn from their mistakes and try to move forward, or should they be eternally stuck in the quagmire that paralyzed both societies in the past?

    Well, in the past the Poles had their own version of the Volyn Massacre called Akcia Wysla that was a forerunner of the later

    Akca Wysla came after Volhynian massacre and it was not really comparable – the former involved brutal slaughter of up to 100,00 people, the latter involved forced deportation (and probably a few hundred deaths).

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    You're correct, I had in mind the "pacification" of Eastern Galicia in the early 1930's that was the first round of ethnic unrest fomented by the Poles over Ukrainians after WWI, many that were peaceful bystanders. Although at most 35 Ukrainians died during these obtrusive raids, many Ukrainians that lived within approximately 495 villages felt the brunt of this Polish violence. These raids contributed to the already unruly climate of those times.
  163. @AP

    Frankly I think AP is wrong on 20,000 Negroes in the Ukraine, if he actually said that.
     
    I certainly did not say that.
    • Replies: @AP
    Good memory. I said it was an estimate by an African, though I didn't dispute it in the post. It seems rather high, but even so it's a tiny % - about .05%.

    I don't recall seeing more than an African or two when I was in Kiev. I saw some in Moscow, though very few, it was a few more. They were yelling to entice people to come to restaurants. I saw one poor guy being hunted by skinheads late at night, he ran past us in a nearly empty the metro station looking scared, and they were following.

  164. @AP

    Well, in the past the Poles had their own version of the Volyn Massacre called Akcia Wysla that was a forerunner of the later
     
    Akca Wysla came after Volhynian massacre and it was not really comparable - the former involved brutal slaughter of up to 100,00 people, the latter involved forced deportation (and probably a few hundred deaths).

    You’re correct, I had in mind the “pacification” of Eastern Galicia in the early 1930’s that was the first round of ethnic unrest fomented by the Poles over Ukrainians after WWI, many that were peaceful bystanders. Although at most 35 Ukrainians died during these obtrusive raids, many Ukrainians that lived within approximately 495 villages felt the brunt of this Polish violence. These raids contributed to the already unruly climate of those times.

  165. @utu
    I do not follow your logic. The BBC hack is not lecturing your lying eyes. He is agreeing with them that there are only 70,000 out there. But perhaps you are right and the number is much lower.

    Russia is not a place known for its large African community. Afro-Russians, as many like to be known, make up only roughly 40 000 of its population of more than 144 million.
    https://citizen.co.za/news/news-world/1965705/if-you-thought-there-were-no-black-russians-you-were-wrong/
     

    I thought AK was trolling you but he appears to be serious.

    HK has at least c. ~40000 South Asians. How many of them do you see, say, in the video below?

  166. @Mr. XYZ
    Actually, you did--slightly over a year ago:

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/the-rights-human-capital-problem/#comment-2354330

    Good memory. I said it was an estimate by an African, though I didn’t dispute it in the post. It seems rather high, but even so it’s a tiny % – about .05%.

    I don’t recall seeing more than an African or two when I was in Kiev. I saw some in Moscow, though very few, it was a few more. They were yelling to entice people to come to restaurants. I saw one poor guy being hunted by skinheads late at night, he ran past us in a nearly empty the metro station looking scared, and they were following.

    • Replies: @JL

    I saw one poor guy being hunted by skinheads late at night, he ran past us in a nearly empty the metro station looking scared, and they were following.
     
    As I wrote in a comment above, judging the amount of blacks in Moscow by how many you see is potentially deceptive. They keep a low profile, cluster, and are very careful about moving around the city. I wouldn't be surprised if the situation in Kiev is similar.
    , @neutral
    Its good he was scared, because eventually if the usual "lets be tolerant" crap becomes the norm then the people that will be scared in the metros will be white people.
  167. @Mr. XYZ
    Somewhat off-topic, but do you think that a different German Chancellor in 2015 would have still done what Merkel did in regards to letting a million largely Muslim migrants into Germany?

    Merkel made a snap decision to admit them, overruling the Interior Minister, because she heard television crews were going to film the police shutting down the border invasion.

    Seems highly likely another German Chancellor would not have made the same blunder, especially since it violated the Dublin Convention and thus undermined Germany’s entire EU strategy.

    • Agree: AP
  168. @Mr. Hack
    Polish migration into Ukraine goes much further back than the 18th century. Also, I strongly suspect that the major Slavic tribe for both nations, the Polianins, were the same or at least very closely related. How else can one account for the great similarity in DNA structure between Poles and Ukrainians?
    My mother, a fiery Ukrainian patriot, never allowed me to appreciate her father's Polish background - I guess she didn't want me to grow up with any complexes. :-) I found out about this while visiting Ukraine. My other three grandparents were all Ukrainians.

    Ukrainians are very close to Poles, however the order of genetic proximity is:

    1. Belarussians
    2. Slovaks
    3. Russians
    4. Poles

    • Replies: @Beckow
    Number 2? There are other kinds of proximity:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWMEmZ-t5MA

    , @Mr. Hack
    I'd be curious o know whether your research indicates whether Slovaks are closer to Ukrainians or Czechs genetically? If they are, it would seem kind of strange, as both the Slovak and Czech nations seem to have sprung out of ancient Moravian state. Also, the Slovak languge is closer to Czech than it is to Ukrainian.
  169. Anonymous[277] • Disclaimer says:
    @LatW

    Several people have given coherent arguments for why Poland and other BASTE countries are actually in a very precarious situation,
     
    While I do agree that the Intermarium countries are not entirely safe and certain measures should be taken immediately, the "arguments" that you guys have given are not all that coherent and lack in real life detail.

    A typical mistake you guys make is projecting America's situation on the EE. America is in a very peculiar situation where technically immigrating to the US is quite hard, yet at the same time there is a certain anarchic attitude about it and there are immigrants coming all the time. FOB Indian families, Chinese students, etc. Education programs, churches, immigrant social networks, NGOs, etc. These aren't really present in EE, nobody's gonna build them there, there are simply no resources for that and the interest is minimal. Also, Intermarium states, regardless of their difficult histories, are basically ethnostates, the ethnostate centered ideology has not yet been switched to the multiculturalist one. Also, PC'ism is much much worse in the US, there is hardly any in EE, the public discourse, despite of the polarization of society between conservatives and liberals, is nowhere near as PC. Nowhere near and possibly never will be. Another difference is that American nationalists are oppressed, while in Intermarium they form small factions in the government.

    E.Europeans have also been colonized from both sides, so their sense of foreign influence is a little more acute. Colonial powers tend to have a certain grandeur, a generosity of the soul, a certain assimilating tendency, that is evident for instance when the French say - everyone in France is French, or some English feel that they can take care of others because they are so rich and it's "the right thing to do", E.Europeans lack this. They can be quite stingy even towards each other. The typical thinking is that nothing should come for free. I'm not saying this can't change, it's just there are important nuances there, that you as an American do not know of.

    I agree with Beckow that we entered the EU with the thought of entering as ethnostates to join other ethnostates, and that there might have been some miscommunication there - we thought of "diversity" as ethnic and linguistic diversity, not world citizenship. It is a bit awkward but we can still argue that rules where changed in the middle of the game - this is not really what we signed up for. Thus rules need to be renegotiated and there are already calls to do that. Europe is not what it was in 2004. The EU is not a federation, countries have rights and things can still be discussed.

    It may not be NATO membership that will decide the demographics - Poland has been in NATO for 20 years and all those years it had outmigration, but it took just a couple of years of steady 4% growth for third country migrants to appear. (Also, NATO itself needs to be renegotiated, from a political to defense alliance, so that Poland could be like Turkey - an ally but with its own culture).

    The actual workforce needs on the ground right now are more important than the "Western ideology". Many businesses (both local as well as investors) are screaming for labor. Should they be given all they want? No. But the needs of at least the local businesses (foreign investors is a separate story), should be addressed. This is currently being addressed by the large influx of Eastern Slavs into the Intermarium countries. Yes, that includes not only Ukrainians, but even Northern Russians! This alleviates the labor shortage and a potential recession could alleviate things even more.

    The current migrant profile looks something like this: mostly re-patriating Poles, Estonians, etc., relatively small chunk, but it's there; a relatively large chunk of Eastern Slavs who either stay or rotate, and a third group, "Others". This is larger in Poland and Czech Rep, I imagine, and minuscule or practically non-existent in the Baltics (but it has appeared, alarmingly, although it's hard to say how many of them are tourists or transients into the West). Most of those are also workers and not welfare migrants because EE politicians deliberately keep those welfare payments small (Latvian nationalists in fact made sure the payments to migrants are reduced and the politicians care more about building a large concert hall than taking care of the migrants). The key would be to source repatriants as well as Slavs, so that there would be no space left for anyone else. According to some data, 30% of EE migrants in the West want to return home, if we succeeded in repatriating them it could be hundreds of thousands of people.

    Oh, and there is another tiny immigrant group - Germanic husbands. :) Very nice, hard working, cute with flaxen hair, potentially easy to assimilate eventually.

    Btw, another mistake of yours is the perception that the threat is from the West - and while I don't disagree that in the future, even in the near future, it is a potential threat, currently the majority of third country migrants arrive from Russia, via the Northern route.

    So, yea, what matters is not some ideological slogans, but how the situation will be handled on the ground. All in all, EE is very homogeneous and very pleasant, with visibly rising living standards to top it off.

    To this excellent post I would add another point:

    Immigrants don’t choose a destination country by opening up the CIA Fact Book, finding the list of countries ranked by per-capita GDP and then cross-referencing which ones have the most benefits; they have a gestalt which is largely based on the reputation of a country in their own countries. Certainly a wealthy country with a well-developed social welfare system is desirable, but they are also looking for countries that are perceived as tolerant and open-minded, preferably ones which already have large communities of their coethnics.

    Eastern Europe is still generally regarded in the rest of the world as a brutal, intolerant and backwards place (as compared to the rest of the continent). To overcome this reputation in the minds of Third Worlders will be a long, slow process, one that happens gradually over several decades. And that’s assuming it will ever happen: public sentiments in EE seem to be overwhelmingly skeptical of the situation in Western Europe and they are probably not so arrogant/stupid as to think (as Western Europe did) that “where others have failed in creating a multicultural utopia, we will succeed!”

    Put another way: there’s a reason immigrants tend to prefer Belgium/Netherlands/Sweden to Ireland, even though the latter is now wealthier. Sometimes negative stereotypes can work to a country’s benefit.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    Is Ireland really wealthier if you take into accout the tax haven status?

    Ireland is harder to reach than the other countries you mentioned (no Schengen Area, an island shielded by Britain), though which should help.
  170. @AP
    Ukrainians are very close to Poles, however the order of genetic proximity is:

    1. Belarussians
    2. Slovaks
    3. Russians
    4. Poles

    Number 2? There are other kinds of proximity:

  171. JL says:
    @AP
    Good memory. I said it was an estimate by an African, though I didn't dispute it in the post. It seems rather high, but even so it's a tiny % - about .05%.

    I don't recall seeing more than an African or two when I was in Kiev. I saw some in Moscow, though very few, it was a few more. They were yelling to entice people to come to restaurants. I saw one poor guy being hunted by skinheads late at night, he ran past us in a nearly empty the metro station looking scared, and they were following.

    I saw one poor guy being hunted by skinheads late at night, he ran past us in a nearly empty the metro station looking scared, and they were following.

    As I wrote in a comment above, judging the amount of blacks in Moscow by how many you see is potentially deceptive. They keep a low profile, cluster, and are very careful about moving around the city. I wouldn’t be surprised if the situation in Kiev is similar.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    How many do you think there are in Moscow and Russia?

    As someone who actually lives here as opposed to utu etc.

    Perhaps there is a hiding factor involved, though I don't know to what extent that's feasible. They still need to go to shops etc. And Bantoids tend to be a sociable and gregarious lot, who like to peacock.
    , @melanf

    judging the amount of blacks in Moscow by how many you see is potentially deceptive. They keep a low profile, cluster, and are very careful about moving around the city
     
    In St. Petersburg part of black is tourists (in Moscow, probably the same thing). So it can be assumed that the visual assessment is potentially deceptive in the other direction
  172. @JL

    I saw one poor guy being hunted by skinheads late at night, he ran past us in a nearly empty the metro station looking scared, and they were following.
     
    As I wrote in a comment above, judging the amount of blacks in Moscow by how many you see is potentially deceptive. They keep a low profile, cluster, and are very careful about moving around the city. I wouldn't be surprised if the situation in Kiev is similar.

    How many do you think there are in Moscow and Russia?

    As someone who actually lives here as opposed to utu etc.

    Perhaps there is a hiding factor involved, though I don’t know to what extent that’s feasible. They still need to go to shops etc. And Bantoids tend to be a sociable and gregarious lot, who like to peacock.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward

    And Bantoids tend to be a sociable and gregarious lot, who like to peacock.
     
    Bantoids from Africa?? No way.

    That's a retarded New World thing.
    , @JL
    I don't know how many blacks there are here, certainly not that many. My point was less that there are more than it may seem and more that it doesn't really matter much, tens of thousands, even, here or there, because society is structured in such a way that they are not allowed to create the kinds of problems normally associated with them. (Note, our resident WN neutral immediately picked up on this.) Personally, I adore Russians' casual and pervasive racism, hopefully it will crystalize more into part of its anti-Western ideological stance in the same way as attitudes towards homosexuality have.

    On a side note, regarding blacks in Russia, I've been told that there was a mini mulatto baby boom in Moscow as a result of the 1980s Olympic games. Apparently, some of the locals girls were rather enticed by the exotic black skinned athletes in town. They're interesting characters, this cohort, completely Russified. One of them hosted a late-night talk show about sex (Про Это) on NTV in the 00s.

    And Bantoids tend to be a sociable and gregarious lot, who like to peacock.
     
    Yeah, but I imagine those who aren't able to tamp down these tendencies don't last very long. Put another way, picture yourself as an African migrant in Moscow. How would you behave?
  173. @AP
    Good memory. I said it was an estimate by an African, though I didn't dispute it in the post. It seems rather high, but even so it's a tiny % - about .05%.

    I don't recall seeing more than an African or two when I was in Kiev. I saw some in Moscow, though very few, it was a few more. They were yelling to entice people to come to restaurants. I saw one poor guy being hunted by skinheads late at night, he ran past us in a nearly empty the metro station looking scared, and they were following.

    Its good he was scared, because eventually if the usual “lets be tolerant” crap becomes the norm then the people that will be scared in the metros will be white people.

  174. @Anonymous
    To this excellent post I would add another point:

    Immigrants don't choose a destination country by opening up the CIA Fact Book, finding the list of countries ranked by per-capita GDP and then cross-referencing which ones have the most benefits; they have a gestalt which is largely based on the reputation of a country in their own countries. Certainly a wealthy country with a well-developed social welfare system is desirable, but they are also looking for countries that are perceived as tolerant and open-minded, preferably ones which already have large communities of their coethnics.

    Eastern Europe is still generally regarded in the rest of the world as a brutal, intolerant and backwards place (as compared to the rest of the continent). To overcome this reputation in the minds of Third Worlders will be a long, slow process, one that happens gradually over several decades. And that's assuming it will ever happen: public sentiments in EE seem to be overwhelmingly skeptical of the situation in Western Europe and they are probably not so arrogant/stupid as to think (as Western Europe did) that "where others have failed in creating a multicultural utopia, we will succeed!"

    Put another way: there's a reason immigrants tend to prefer Belgium/Netherlands/Sweden to Ireland, even though the latter is now wealthier. Sometimes negative stereotypes can work to a country's benefit.

    Is Ireland really wealthier if you take into accout the tax haven status?

    Ireland is harder to reach than the other countries you mentioned (no Schengen Area, an island shielded by Britain), though which should help.

    • Replies: @notanon
    Ireland is a good example of a country where the main driver of immigration is the active betrayal of their ruling elite.
  175. @Beckow

    ....neoliberalism - because they changed the meaning of the original concept liberalism to match something more like “social democrat”.
     
    There is not even remote similarity between neoliberalism and social democracy, so claiming it is odd. Social democracy largely disappeared by 1990's, what has carried the name since then are the usual centrist liberal policies with more emphasis on preserving pensions or longer vacation time.

    Looking at individual leaders is pointless - they have almost all been de facto liberals for the last 20-30 years. What they disagree on - or pretend to disagree - could fit on a small index card: abortion, pension age, how many F-15 planes to buy, congestion charges, and whether to attack Russia now or wait until it gets weaker (or Iran, N Korea, Venezuela, etc...). Western leaders are inter-changeable.

    Trump is a non-conformist who irritates the elites, but he is in his actions within the liberal mainstream. There is a lot of noise, but no change. We are also seeing a new generation of clowns among leaders and that is interesting, since historically young clowns grow up to be servants. Go figure.

    i think he was saying liberalism (original unfettered capitalism) had turned into social democracy so the return to unfettered capitalism (with added poz) was dubbed neoliberalism.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    I would say that the original liberalism (or unfettered capitalism) was defeated in the first half of the 20th century by different kinds of nationalism and socialism. Liberalism simply wasn't working - if you look at public discourse from that time, there is a consensus that liberalism was a failed system, few defended it any more.

    Liberalism didn't recover until late 20th century, first in the anglo world and then - often by force - elsewhere. This time a new trick was introduced: massive migration flows to destroy the power of labor. You can trace it to US 'supply side' ideology - the idea was that if there is close to unlimited supply of labor on all levels, the elites can take complete control of the society. Working people with limited power to negotiate are powerless, in some ways they approach almost feudal or slavery status - except they are free to move. That last part has destroyed the national nature of many societies. But the 'toys' - as always with unfettered business - are great, they were quite amazing the last time liberalism was reigning (what the f.k: a bicycle, now we have a talking phone).

    It has been done gradually, and it often exempts the current groups and is applied only to younger people to dilute resistance. But we know where this is going.

  176. @Mitleser
    Is Ireland really wealthier if you take into accout the tax haven status?

    Ireland is harder to reach than the other countries you mentioned (no Schengen Area, an island shielded by Britain), though which should help.

    Ireland is a good example of a country where the main driver of immigration is the active betrayal of their ruling elite.

  177. Ireland’s version of Blair/Macron/Trudeau etc

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Shatter

  178. @AP
    Ukrainians are very close to Poles, however the order of genetic proximity is:

    1. Belarussians
    2. Slovaks
    3. Russians
    4. Poles

    I’d be curious o know whether your research indicates whether Slovaks are closer to Ukrainians or Czechs genetically? If they are, it would seem kind of strange, as both the Slovak and Czech nations seem to have sprung out of ancient Moravian state. Also, the Slovak languge is closer to Czech than it is to Ukrainian.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Also, as you know the Russian grouping is clearly dilineated into two large clusters: a northern grouping (where the real Russian ethnos developed) and the south-eastern grouping that had an immense presence of Ukrainians from Ukraine and from the Kuban. I suspect that if you were to break down the Russian genetic structure into these two groupings, the northern one would fall lower on your rung on your latter, closer to the Poles or even below it?...
  179. @Mr. Hack
    I'd be curious o know whether your research indicates whether Slovaks are closer to Ukrainians or Czechs genetically? If they are, it would seem kind of strange, as both the Slovak and Czech nations seem to have sprung out of ancient Moravian state. Also, the Slovak languge is closer to Czech than it is to Ukrainian.

    Also, as you know the Russian grouping is clearly dilineated into two large clusters: a northern grouping (where the real Russian ethnos developed) and the south-eastern grouping that had an immense presence of Ukrainians from Ukraine and from the Kuban. I suspect that if you were to break down the Russian genetic structure into these two groupings, the northern one would fall lower on your rung on your latter, closer to the Poles or even below it?…

    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    a northern grouping (where the real Russian ethnos developed)
     
    It depends what you mean. The Russian ethnos developed from the southern grouping, but conquered the northern areas and assimilated the Finno-Ugrian peoples there. Then some people from present-day Ukraine settled in South Russia, reinforcing the southern grouping.

    But it's obvious the original Russian ethnos was very close to the ancestors of present-day Ukrainians.
    , @melanf

    suspect that if you were to break down the Russian genetic structure into these two groupings, the northern one would fall
     
    Northern Russians are genetically very far from any Slavs

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/30/PLOS_3.PNG
  180. A new guitar god is gracing us with his presence – Marcin Patrzałek of Poland.

    I’d start with his recent performance at America’s Got Talent.
    Then a couple of my personal favorites are his arrangements of “Master of
    Puppets” by Metallica and “Toxicity” by System of a Down.

    Warning: his videos can become addictive, and he is only 18. Needless, to say,
    he is already quite rich, and very much in demand.

  181. It keeps happening!

    Merkel has another shaking fit for the third time.

    Coincidentally it was during the German national anthem again…

    • Replies: @neutral
    So what could this be? Is this Parkinsons?
    , @reiner Tor
    A good dose of nostalgia:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BygnKYLA1Lw
  182. @Mitleser
    It keeps happening!

    Merkel has another shaking fit for the third time.

    Coincidentally it was during the German national anthem again...
     
    https://twitter.com/SuspendedTruth/status/1148928433864548352

    So what could this be? Is this Parkinsons?

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    During the Hillary Clinton 911 Collapse Saga some commenters claiming to be doctors said they were sure it was Parkinson's. I don't think those comments stood the test of time, and I didn't think so already in October 2016.

    Probably many things can cause the same symptom, some of which are not very serious at all.
    , @notanon
    Kuru
    , @AP
    Guilt.
  183. @Mitleser
    It keeps happening!

    Merkel has another shaking fit for the third time.

    Coincidentally it was during the German national anthem again...
     
    https://twitter.com/SuspendedTruth/status/1148928433864548352

    A good dose of nostalgia:

  184. @neutral
    So what could this be? Is this Parkinsons?

    During the Hillary Clinton 911 Collapse Saga some commenters claiming to be doctors said they were sure it was Parkinson’s. I don’t think those comments stood the test of time, and I didn’t think so already in October 2016.

    Probably many things can cause the same symptom, some of which are not very serious at all.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Hillary Clinton hasn't made many public appearances since the election, so we simply don't know.

    It's clearly she was not in good health during the election, but the cause of her poor health was unknown.

    Probably something as banal as being old, evil, and overweight.
  185. @Mr. Hack
    Also, as you know the Russian grouping is clearly dilineated into two large clusters: a northern grouping (where the real Russian ethnos developed) and the south-eastern grouping that had an immense presence of Ukrainians from Ukraine and from the Kuban. I suspect that if you were to break down the Russian genetic structure into these two groupings, the northern one would fall lower on your rung on your latter, closer to the Poles or even below it?...

    a northern grouping (where the real Russian ethnos developed)

    It depends what you mean. The Russian ethnos developed from the southern grouping, but conquered the northern areas and assimilated the Finno-Ugrian peoples there. Then some people from present-day Ukraine settled in South Russia, reinforcing the southern grouping.

    But it’s obvious the original Russian ethnos was very close to the ancestors of present-day Ukrainians.

    • Replies: @melanf

    The Russian ethnos developed from the southern grouping,
     
    The Russian state's original core is the vicinity of Novgorod, where the population is (currently) a mixture of Northern and southern Russians
    https://d.radikal.ru/d30/1907/02/cbc7de6693b1.jpg
    , @Mr. Hack
    You confuse the ancient Rus people with the modern day Russians. This would be as inaccurate as doing so with the Ukrainians as well. Both peoples emerged from the Rus superstate into two separate nationalities, not unlike your own Slovak people and the Czechs emerged out of ancient Moravia.
  186. @reiner Tor
    During the Hillary Clinton 911 Collapse Saga some commenters claiming to be doctors said they were sure it was Parkinson's. I don't think those comments stood the test of time, and I didn't think so already in October 2016.

    Probably many things can cause the same symptom, some of which are not very serious at all.

    Hillary Clinton hasn’t made many public appearances since the election, so we simply don’t know.

    It’s clearly she was not in good health during the election, but the cause of her poor health was unknown.

    Probably something as banal as being old, evil, and overweight.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I think that's not entirely accurate. She's already been seen in public several times. Had she had Parkinson's, it'd probably have been noticed over the past three years. I'm pretty sure she has enough enemies within the Democratic Party for things like that to leak out anyway. Maybe it could be concealed from the public by skillfully managing her medications and her few public appearances, however, from Emailgate she didn't come across as some kind of intelligence mastermind who could pull it off.
  187. @JL

    I saw one poor guy being hunted by skinheads late at night, he ran past us in a nearly empty the metro station looking scared, and they were following.
     
    As I wrote in a comment above, judging the amount of blacks in Moscow by how many you see is potentially deceptive. They keep a low profile, cluster, and are very careful about moving around the city. I wouldn't be surprised if the situation in Kiev is similar.

    judging the amount of blacks in Moscow by how many you see is potentially deceptive. They keep a low profile, cluster, and are very careful about moving around the city

    In St. Petersburg part of black is tourists (in Moscow, probably the same thing). So it can be assumed that the visual assessment is potentially deceptive in the other direction

  188. anon[300] • Disclaimer says:

    From Karlin’s latest twitterings:

    Set aside the subject, because there is no better strategy for country of 150 million people to openly pursue genocide of the rest of the world.

    Let us look at the choice of the words.

    Kakold?

    WTF is “kakold”?

    Great patriot Karlin does not know any of many ancient Russian words for husband of unfaithful wife?
    Great patriot Karlin knows, but wants to appear “worldly” and “civilized” by using badly transliterated foreign words?

    Hard to find what alternative is sadder.

    • Troll: DreadIlk
    • Replies: @Mitleser
    Contribute to the list, Гражданин.

    https://twitter.com/diogen_tv/status/1124702119146262528
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    Not my fault you're not familiar with modern Russian slang.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3A2ch.hk+%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B4
  189. @Mr. Hack
    Also, as you know the Russian grouping is clearly dilineated into two large clusters: a northern grouping (where the real Russian ethnos developed) and the south-eastern grouping that had an immense presence of Ukrainians from Ukraine and from the Kuban. I suspect that if you were to break down the Russian genetic structure into these two groupings, the northern one would fall lower on your rung on your latter, closer to the Poles or even below it?...

    suspect that if you were to break down the Russian genetic structure into these two groupings, the northern one would fall

    Northern Russians are genetically very far from any Slavs

  190. @reiner Tor

    a northern grouping (where the real Russian ethnos developed)
     
    It depends what you mean. The Russian ethnos developed from the southern grouping, but conquered the northern areas and assimilated the Finno-Ugrian peoples there. Then some people from present-day Ukraine settled in South Russia, reinforcing the southern grouping.

    But it's obvious the original Russian ethnos was very close to the ancestors of present-day Ukrainians.

    The Russian ethnos developed from the southern grouping,

    The Russian state’s original core is the vicinity of Novgorod, where the population is (currently) a mixture of Northern and southern Russians

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    I think that most historians would start the modern development of the Russian nation in Vladimir and not Novgorod. The first prince that is identified with this movement would be Vladimir III of Moscow in the 15th century.
  191. @reiner Tor

    a northern grouping (where the real Russian ethnos developed)
     
    It depends what you mean. The Russian ethnos developed from the southern grouping, but conquered the northern areas and assimilated the Finno-Ugrian peoples there. Then some people from present-day Ukraine settled in South Russia, reinforcing the southern grouping.

    But it's obvious the original Russian ethnos was very close to the ancestors of present-day Ukrainians.

    You confuse the ancient Rus people with the modern day Russians. This would be as inaccurate as doing so with the Ukrainians as well. Both peoples emerged from the Rus superstate into two separate nationalities, not unlike your own Slovak people and the Czechs emerged out of ancient Moravia.

  192. @melanf

    The Russian ethnos developed from the southern grouping,
     
    The Russian state's original core is the vicinity of Novgorod, where the population is (currently) a mixture of Northern and southern Russians
    https://d.radikal.ru/d30/1907/02/cbc7de6693b1.jpg

    I think that most historians would start the modern development of the Russian nation in Vladimir and not Novgorod. The first prince that is identified with this movement would be Vladimir III of Moscow in the 15th century.

    • Replies: @melanf

    I think that most historians would start the modern development of the Russian nation in Vladimir and not Novgorod. The first prince that is identified with this movement would be Vladimir III of Moscow in the 15th century.
     
    A strange mix of whistful thinking with the history of an alternate universe (Vladimir III of Moscow)
    , @Mikhail
    Novgorod being in modern day Russia.

    A Novgorod prince resettled his base to Kiev, around the time of when the entity known as Rus (also termed as Kievan Rus) is dated to have begun. Kiev crown princes were involved with developing the areas in Moscow in Suzdal. "Ivan the Terrible" was from the Riurik line of monarchs who ruled over Rus. Likewise, it's not like there has been centuries of migration of others regarding the Rus lands that included Russia, Ukraine and Belarus.

    For accuracy sake, one should be wary of broad DNA claims. To date, there hasn't been any (in participatory terms) DNA study coming close to the population surveys from the areas in question.

    It makes sense that many (not all) of northwestern ethnic Russians have closer links to Scandinavia when compared to many (not all) Slavs in modern day Ukraine, with ancestral links to Kiev. Conversely, many (not all) of the latter grouping have links with a non-Rus/non-Scandinavian group/groups, when compared to many (not all) of the former.

  193. @anon
    From Karlin's latest twitterings:

    https://twitter.com/akarlin88/status/1148909978805252096

    Set aside the subject, because there is no better strategy for country of 150 million people to openly pursue genocide of the rest of the world.

    Let us look at the choice of the words.

    Kakold?

    WTF is "kakold"?

    Great patriot Karlin does not know any of many ancient Russian words for husband of unfaithful wife?
    Great patriot Karlin knows, but wants to appear "worldly" and "civilized" by using badly transliterated foreign words?

    Hard to find what alternative is sadder.

    Contribute to the list, Гражданин.

    • LOL: Anatoly Karlin
  194. @anon
    From Karlin's latest twitterings:

    https://twitter.com/akarlin88/status/1148909978805252096

    Set aside the subject, because there is no better strategy for country of 150 million people to openly pursue genocide of the rest of the world.

    Let us look at the choice of the words.

    Kakold?

    WTF is "kakold"?

    Great patriot Karlin does not know any of many ancient Russian words for husband of unfaithful wife?
    Great patriot Karlin knows, but wants to appear "worldly" and "civilized" by using badly transliterated foreign words?

    Hard to find what alternative is sadder.

    Not my fault you’re not familiar with modern Russian slang.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3A2ch.hk+%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B4

  195. @LondonBob
    Probably, just a product of the political elite's ideology. Merkel admitting those immigrants was thought as the best means to boost the moribund EU economy. This might seems nuts to us but that is what they think.

    Nobody of even average intelligence and reasoning abilities — merely or anyone — could sincerely think that the economy would be helped by importing millions of people who do not speak or understand let alone read and write the German language, lack any meaningful training or education or marketable skills in their own countries already, are native speakers of totally unrelated languages.

    Add in the fact that in Germany, like in the USA and elsewhere, large numbers of unskilled and lower-skilled jobs are being eliminated by automation and scanners, and will be eliminated by more capable robots and artificial intelligence in the immediate future, not the long term. Specifically many jobs as supermarket checkout jobs, restaurant cook, retail clerk, office work like insurance claims adjusting, truck or Uber driver — the very jobs that unskilled or low-skilled people with limited German knowledge might do —- are diminishing and will likely be much more greatly diminished soon.

    Add in the fact that the invaders, aka migrants, were and are overwhelmingly adherents of a religion that teaches them to hate and subjugate the natives, and come from otherwise incompatible or less compatible cultures, and it becomes an even more obviously suicidal idea.

    Yeah, there are already few jobs that the invaders can do, and the jobs they might do are being automated and otherwise eliminated, but at least they’re not from a similar kindred people and observe a religion that command them to conquer and subjugate and never truly compromise or assimilate wherever they go.

    If you think Merkel sincerely thought that the invaders would help Germans or their economy, you are far too naive or just a nice person giving too much credit 😉

    Remember merkel’s disgusted reaction when handed a German flag. She hates her own people and at a minimum doesn’t care whether they survive and thrive as their own culture and polity.

    Germany is almost at the point of no return. If they admit zero Muslims and zero nonEuropeans for permanent settlement from 2020 on, the existing muslim and noneuropean population continues to grow by births while the German population continues to decline. Every single year, without exception.

    As for percentages, no way is the EU only 4-5% Muslim now. More to the point, some countries are nearing ten percent and growing fast, as well as caving to Islam and increasingly aggressive Muslims demanding that their lifestyle, mores and rules replace white European law and culture (including sharia law): Sweden, followed by France and England and the Benelux countries.

    We will have a Muslim-majority London, Paris, Stockholm, Rome and Naples, Vienna, Belgium, Amsterdam and Rotterdam within 20 years, not longer. Wait till the white flight, and simply nonMuslim flight, begin in earnest from the EU to Eastern Europe, the USA and Canada, and Russia if Russia allows it.

    • Replies: @Epigon

    We will have a Muslim-majority London, Paris, Stockholm, Rome and Naples, Vienna, Belgium, Amsterdam and Rotterdam within 20 years, not longer.
     
    *world’s smallest violin*

    PS: Rome, Naples, Vienna not really

    , @LondonBob
    I remember reading an economic report put out by an investment bank, can't remember the name of it, where they talk about this as being a motivator for Merkel admitting the immigrants and it being discussed as such at Davos. We might not understand it but we should know what our opponents think. That is why biodiversity is important and scientifically debunking blank statism matters.
    , @Hyperborean

    As for percentages, no way is the EU only 4-5% Muslim now. More to the point, some countries are nearing ten percent and growing fast, as well as caving to Islam and increasingly aggressive Muslims demanding that their lifestyle, mores and rules replace white European law and culture (including sharia law): Sweden, followed by France and England and the Benelux countries.
     
    It is a two-way street. Middle Easterners in Europe are also influenced by the prevailing decadent popular culture - this doesn't imply convergence to European norms, but perhaps something similar to the behaviour of American ghetto blacks or white trash.

    Many of them are into drugs, rap, promiscuity*, etc.

    Yes, in all Sunni demographics there will always be at least a small core of Salafists who are willing to commit terrorist actions, but on the whole I believe modernity will emerge victorious and Western Europe's future, presuming that the present course countinues, will resemble more America or Brazil than it will Saudi Arabia.

    *There's a quasi-French term《Beurettes à khel》for Maghrebin women who date African males, suggesting that the phenomenon has already started to reach a certain level of prominence and notoriety.
  196. @Thorfinnsson
    Hillary Clinton hasn't made many public appearances since the election, so we simply don't know.

    It's clearly she was not in good health during the election, but the cause of her poor health was unknown.

    Probably something as banal as being old, evil, and overweight.

    I think that’s not entirely accurate. She’s already been seen in public several times. Had she had Parkinson’s, it’d probably have been noticed over the past three years. I’m pretty sure she has enough enemies within the Democratic Party for things like that to leak out anyway. Maybe it could be concealed from the public by skillfully managing her medications and her few public appearances, however, from Emailgate she didn’t come across as some kind of intelligence mastermind who could pull it off.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    The press kept secret the fact that the only four-term President of the United States was a cripple.

    And something like a Parkinson's diagnosis, unlike being a cripple, is private unless a person (or a highly unethical physician) chooses to share it.

    It's this entirely possible she does in fact have Parkinson's, though I agree that's probably not it.

    She's just generically unhealthy. If there's any degenerative disease(s) it's something like type 2 diabetes, osteoporosis, rheumatoid arthritis, etc. Perhaps hypertension or even some kind of lesser heart disease.
  197. @notanon
    i think he was saying liberalism (original unfettered capitalism) had turned into social democracy so the return to unfettered capitalism (with added poz) was dubbed neoliberalism.

    I would say that the original liberalism (or unfettered capitalism) was defeated in the first half of the 20th century by different kinds of nationalism and socialism. Liberalism simply wasn’t working – if you look at public discourse from that time, there is a consensus that liberalism was a failed system, few defended it any more.

    Liberalism didn’t recover until late 20th century, first in the anglo world and then – often by force – elsewhere. This time a new trick was introduced: massive migration flows to destroy the power of labor. You can trace it to US ‘supply side’ ideology – the idea was that if there is close to unlimited supply of labor on all levels, the elites can take complete control of the society. Working people with limited power to negotiate are powerless, in some ways they approach almost feudal or slavery status – except they are free to move. That last part has destroyed the national nature of many societies. But the ‘toys’ – as always with unfettered business – are great, they were quite amazing the last time liberalism was reigning (what the f.k: a bicycle, now we have a talking phone).

    It has been done gradually, and it often exempts the current groups and is applied only to younger people to dilute resistance. But we know where this is going.

    • Replies: @Mitleser

    This time a new trick was introduced: massive migration flows to destroy the power of labor. You can trace it to US ‘supply side’ ideology – the idea was that if there is close to unlimited supply of labor on all levels, the elites can take complete control of the society. Working people with limited power to negotiate are powerless, in some ways they approach almost feudal or slavery status – except they are free to move. That last part has destroyed the national nature of many societies.
     
    Oh vey, that sounds familiar.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20190515215817im_/https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D6gSOQcU8AAo4gE.jpg
    https://twitter.com/PyotrNemets/status/1128172290246463494
  198. @RadicalCenter
    Nobody of even average intelligence and reasoning abilities — merely or anyone — could sincerely think that the economy would be helped by importing millions of people who do not speak or understand let alone read and write the German language, lack any meaningful training or education or marketable skills in their own countries already, are native speakers of totally unrelated languages.

    Add in the fact that in Germany, like in the USA and elsewhere, large numbers of unskilled and lower-skilled jobs are being eliminated by automation and scanners, and will be eliminated by more capable robots and artificial intelligence in the immediate future, not the long term. Specifically many jobs as supermarket checkout jobs, restaurant cook, retail clerk, office work like insurance claims adjusting, truck or Uber driver — the very jobs that unskilled or low-skilled people with limited German knowledge might do —- are diminishing and will likely be much more greatly diminished soon.

    Add in the fact that the invaders, aka migrants, were and are overwhelmingly adherents of a religion that teaches them to hate and subjugate the natives, and come from otherwise incompatible or less compatible cultures, and it becomes an even more obviously suicidal idea.

    Yeah, there are already few jobs that the invaders can do, and the jobs they might do are being automated and otherwise eliminated, but at least they’re not from a similar kindred people and observe a religion that command them to conquer and subjugate and never truly compromise or assimilate wherever they go.

    If you think Merkel sincerely thought that the invaders would help Germans or their economy, you are far too naive or just a nice person giving too much credit ;)

    Remember merkel’s disgusted reaction when handed a German flag. She hates her own people and at a minimum doesn’t care whether they survive and thrive as their own culture and polity.

    Germany is almost at the point of no return. If they admit zero Muslims and zero nonEuropeans for permanent settlement from 2020 on, the existing muslim and noneuropean population continues to grow by births while the German population continues to decline. Every single year, without exception.

    As for percentages, no way is the EU only 4-5% Muslim now. More to the point, some countries are nearing ten percent and growing fast, as well as caving to Islam and increasingly aggressive Muslims demanding that their lifestyle, mores and rules replace white European law and culture (including sharia law): Sweden, followed by France and England and the Benelux countries.

    We will have a Muslim-majority London, Paris, Stockholm, Rome and Naples, Vienna, Belgium, Amsterdam and Rotterdam within 20 years, not longer. Wait till the white flight, and simply nonMuslim flight, begin in earnest from the EU to Eastern Europe, the USA and Canada, and Russia if Russia allows it.

    We will have a Muslim-majority London, Paris, Stockholm, Rome and Naples, Vienna, Belgium, Amsterdam and Rotterdam within 20 years, not longer.

    *world’s smallest violin*

    PS: Rome, Naples, Vienna not really

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Do you want to live as a nonMuslim minority in a Muslim society? Or, separate if overlapping questions, do you want to live as a minority in a heavily African, Arab, Turk, or Pakistani society? One need not hate those peoples, and I don’t, to want to strive hard to avoid that fate.

    Are you aware of some Italian baby boom in or around Rome or Naples that the rest of us haven’t heard about?

    Have the nonEuropean and Muslim populations increased in both those cities — every year without exception — for the past couple decades, or not?

    As the Italian populace on average ages even further, there will be fewer Italian women of healthy/safe childbearing age left to start turning things around. That will cause the excess of Italian deaths over births to increase.

    Even if the noneuropean and Muslim settlers in Italy lower their fertility to mere replacement rate — a very optimistic assumption — Italians themselves have a shockingly low TFR and will make up a slightly smaller share of the population, then the electorate, each year.

    We haven’t even speculated on white and nonMuslim flight out of northern, western, and Central Europe. That phenomenon may pick up steam substantially pretty soon as levels of violence, intimidation, and hostility against both whites and nonMuslims increases.

    As for Austria, check the numbers on Muslim students as a percentage of Vienna schools and tell me that Muslims (especially Turks, in that case) will not be a majority within 20-25 years.

    But your violin crack was really clever, and a good argument to boot.

  199. @reiner Tor
    I think that's not entirely accurate. She's already been seen in public several times. Had she had Parkinson's, it'd probably have been noticed over the past three years. I'm pretty sure she has enough enemies within the Democratic Party for things like that to leak out anyway. Maybe it could be concealed from the public by skillfully managing her medications and her few public appearances, however, from Emailgate she didn't come across as some kind of intelligence mastermind who could pull it off.

    The press kept secret the fact that the only four-term President of the United States was a cripple.

    And something like a Parkinson’s diagnosis, unlike being a cripple, is private unless a person (or a highly unethical physician) chooses to share it.

    It’s this entirely possible she does in fact have Parkinson’s, though I agree that’s probably not it.

    She’s just generically unhealthy. If there’s any degenerative disease(s) it’s something like type 2 diabetes, osteoporosis, rheumatoid arthritis, etc. Perhaps hypertension or even some kind of lesser heart disease.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    The press kept secret the fact that the only four-term President of the United States was a cripple.
     
    In the 1930s and 1940s. Not many smartphone cameras around, nor social media where they could be shared. Would it still be possible in 2019?
  200. anonymous[389] • Disclaimer says:

    Time for some optimism – the alt-right keeps growing, the good news continues to spread.

    Another anarchist far leftist joined the alt-right. The alt left declines, the alt-right grows!

    As you see, his heart was always on the right place, welcome your new comrade!

  201. @Epigon

    We will have a Muslim-majority London, Paris, Stockholm, Rome and Naples, Vienna, Belgium, Amsterdam and Rotterdam within 20 years, not longer.
     
    *world’s smallest violin*

    PS: Rome, Naples, Vienna not really

    Do you want to live as a nonMuslim minority in a Muslim society? Or, separate if overlapping questions, do you want to live as a minority in a heavily African, Arab, Turk, or Pakistani society? One need not hate those peoples, and I don’t, to want to strive hard to avoid that fate.

    Are you aware of some Italian baby boom in or around Rome or Naples that the rest of us haven’t heard about?

    Have the nonEuropean and Muslim populations increased in both those cities — every year without exception — for the past couple decades, or not?

    As the Italian populace on average ages even further, there will be fewer Italian women of healthy/safe childbearing age left to start turning things around. That will cause the excess of Italian deaths over births to increase.

    Even if the noneuropean and Muslim settlers in Italy lower their fertility to mere replacement rate — a very optimistic assumption — Italians themselves have a shockingly low TFR and will make up a slightly smaller share of the population, then the electorate, each year.

    We haven’t even speculated on white and nonMuslim flight out of northern, western, and Central Europe. That phenomenon may pick up steam substantially pretty soon as levels of violence, intimidation, and hostility against both whites and nonMuslims increases.

    As for Austria, check the numbers on Muslim students as a percentage of Vienna schools and tell me that Muslims (especially Turks, in that case) will not be a majority within 20-25 years.

    But your violin crack was really clever, and a good argument to boot.

    • Replies: @Epigon
    You don’t get it, do you?
    Atlanticism/Homoglobalism must die.
    And for them to die, their foundations must crumble, those are the host (formerly) white nations and especially largest/capital cities.

    No one is actually afraid of packs of Africans, Turks, Muslims, mestizo manual workers and criminals - if their political cover and global sponsors - the USA/West were suddenly out of picture, there would be nothing preventing the nation states from getting rid of them.

    Every single illness that befell modern white nations can be traced back to London, NYC and Washington DC - you are addressing consequences, I am pointing to sources and causes.
    , @AP

    As for Austria, check the numbers on Muslim students as a percentage of Vienna schools and tell me that Muslims (especially Turks, in that case) will not be a majority within 20-25 years.
     
    I was just in Vienna, It was no more Muslim than Moscow - that is, there were some, but not many, it was basically a European city. Stats on schools don't include private schools, that are all Catholic.

    It's just a ridiculous comment about Vienna.
  202. @Thorfinnsson
    The press kept secret the fact that the only four-term President of the United States was a cripple.

    And something like a Parkinson's diagnosis, unlike being a cripple, is private unless a person (or a highly unethical physician) chooses to share it.

    It's this entirely possible she does in fact have Parkinson's, though I agree that's probably not it.

    She's just generically unhealthy. If there's any degenerative disease(s) it's something like type 2 diabetes, osteoporosis, rheumatoid arthritis, etc. Perhaps hypertension or even some kind of lesser heart disease.

    The press kept secret the fact that the only four-term President of the United States was a cripple.

    In the 1930s and 1940s. Not many smartphone cameras around, nor social media where they could be shared. Would it still be possible in 2019?

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Yes.

    People if anything appear to be more, not less, influenced by propaganda now owing to its pervasiveness.

    If FDR were President today the idea that he's crippled would be dismissed as a conspiracy theory promoted by Russian trolls.
  203. @RadicalCenter
    Do you want to live as a nonMuslim minority in a Muslim society? Or, separate if overlapping questions, do you want to live as a minority in a heavily African, Arab, Turk, or Pakistani society? One need not hate those peoples, and I don’t, to want to strive hard to avoid that fate.

    Are you aware of some Italian baby boom in or around Rome or Naples that the rest of us haven’t heard about?

    Have the nonEuropean and Muslim populations increased in both those cities — every year without exception — for the past couple decades, or not?

    As the Italian populace on average ages even further, there will be fewer Italian women of healthy/safe childbearing age left to start turning things around. That will cause the excess of Italian deaths over births to increase.

    Even if the noneuropean and Muslim settlers in Italy lower their fertility to mere replacement rate — a very optimistic assumption — Italians themselves have a shockingly low TFR and will make up a slightly smaller share of the population, then the electorate, each year.

    We haven’t even speculated on white and nonMuslim flight out of northern, western, and Central Europe. That phenomenon may pick up steam substantially pretty soon as levels of violence, intimidation, and hostility against both whites and nonMuslims increases.

    As for Austria, check the numbers on Muslim students as a percentage of Vienna schools and tell me that Muslims (especially Turks, in that case) will not be a majority within 20-25 years.

    But your violin crack was really clever, and a good argument to boot.

    You don’t get it, do you?
    Atlanticism/Homoglobalism must die.
    And for them to die, their foundations must crumble, those are the host (formerly) white nations and especially largest/capital cities.

    No one is actually afraid of packs of Africans, Turks, Muslims, mestizo manual workers and criminals – if their political cover and global sponsors – the USA/West were suddenly out of picture, there would be nothing preventing the nation states from getting rid of them.

    Every single illness that befell modern white nations can be traced back to London, NYC and Washington DC – you are addressing consequences, I am pointing to sources and causes.

  204. @neutral
    So what could this be? Is this Parkinsons?

    Kuru

    • LOL: reiner Tor
  205. @Mr. Hack
    I think that most historians would start the modern development of the Russian nation in Vladimir and not Novgorod. The first prince that is identified with this movement would be Vladimir III of Moscow in the 15th century.

    I think that most historians would start the modern development of the Russian nation in Vladimir and not Novgorod. The first prince that is identified with this movement would be Vladimir III of Moscow in the 15th century.

    A strange mix of whistful thinking with the history of an alternate universe (Vladimir III of Moscow)

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    You've got me. I meant Ivan III of Moscow:

    Ivan the Great,[1][2] was a Grand Prince of Moscow and "Grand Prince of all Rus'". Sometimes referred to as the "gatherer of the Russian lands", he tripled the territory of his state, ended the dominance of the Mongols/Tatars over Russia by defeating the Golden Horde, renovated the Moscow Kremlin, and laid the foundations of the Russian state. He was one of the longest-reigning Russian rulers in history.
     
    Perhaps even more grand than the current Czar!
  206. @RadicalCenter
    Nobody of even average intelligence and reasoning abilities — merely or anyone — could sincerely think that the economy would be helped by importing millions of people who do not speak or understand let alone read and write the German language, lack any meaningful training or education or marketable skills in their own countries already, are native speakers of totally unrelated languages.

    Add in the fact that in Germany, like in the USA and elsewhere, large numbers of unskilled and lower-skilled jobs are being eliminated by automation and scanners, and will be eliminated by more capable robots and artificial intelligence in the immediate future, not the long term. Specifically many jobs as supermarket checkout jobs, restaurant cook, retail clerk, office work like insurance claims adjusting, truck or Uber driver — the very jobs that unskilled or low-skilled people with limited German knowledge might do —- are diminishing and will likely be much more greatly diminished soon.

    Add in the fact that the invaders, aka migrants, were and are overwhelmingly adherents of a religion that teaches them to hate and subjugate the natives, and come from otherwise incompatible or less compatible cultures, and it becomes an even more obviously suicidal idea.

    Yeah, there are already few jobs that the invaders can do, and the jobs they might do are being automated and otherwise eliminated, but at least they’re not from a similar kindred people and observe a religion that command them to conquer and subjugate and never truly compromise or assimilate wherever they go.

    If you think Merkel sincerely thought that the invaders would help Germans or their economy, you are far too naive or just a nice person giving too much credit ;)

    Remember merkel’s disgusted reaction when handed a German flag. She hates her own people and at a minimum doesn’t care whether they survive and thrive as their own culture and polity.

    Germany is almost at the point of no return. If they admit zero Muslims and zero nonEuropeans for permanent settlement from 2020 on, the existing muslim and noneuropean population continues to grow by births while the German population continues to decline. Every single year, without exception.

    As for percentages, no way is the EU only 4-5% Muslim now. More to the point, some countries are nearing ten percent and growing fast, as well as caving to Islam and increasingly aggressive Muslims demanding that their lifestyle, mores and rules replace white European law and culture (including sharia law): Sweden, followed by France and England and the Benelux countries.

    We will have a Muslim-majority London, Paris, Stockholm, Rome and Naples, Vienna, Belgium, Amsterdam and Rotterdam within 20 years, not longer. Wait till the white flight, and simply nonMuslim flight, begin in earnest from the EU to Eastern Europe, the USA and Canada, and Russia if Russia allows it.

    I remember reading an economic report put out by an investment bank, can’t remember the name of it, where they talk about this as being a motivator for Merkel admitting the immigrants and it being discussed as such at Davos. We might not understand it but we should know what our opponents think. That is why biodiversity is important and scientifically debunking blank statism matters.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-05-19/saxobank-cio-warns-central-banks-can-do-nothing

    TF: Earlier this year, you said that the social contract – the agreement between rulers and the ruled – is broken. It made me think of this year’s Davos meeting, which showed a leadership class terrified of slowing jobs growth and enamoured with the idea that population movements might be used to address this. Given the current unpopularity of globalisation and its effects, would you say that there are some things it is impossible for 21st century leaders and the led to agree upon? Is a social contract impossible?

    https://www.tradingfloor.com/posts/what-do-they-believe-in-davos-6971367
  207. @Mr. Hack
    I think that most historians would start the modern development of the Russian nation in Vladimir and not Novgorod. The first prince that is identified with this movement would be Vladimir III of Moscow in the 15th century.

    Novgorod being in modern day Russia.

    A Novgorod prince resettled his base to Kiev, around the time of when the entity known as Rus (also termed as Kievan Rus) is dated to have begun. Kiev crown princes were involved with developing the areas in Moscow in Suzdal. “Ivan the Terrible” was from the Riurik line of monarchs who ruled over Rus. Likewise, it’s not like there has been centuries of migration of others regarding the Rus lands that included Russia, Ukraine and Belarus.

    For accuracy sake, one should be wary of broad DNA claims. To date, there hasn’t been any (in participatory terms) DNA study coming close to the population surveys from the areas in question.

    It makes sense that many (not all) of northwestern ethnic Russians have closer links to Scandinavia when compared to many (not all) Slavs in modern day Ukraine, with ancestral links to Kiev. Conversely, many (not all) of the latter grouping have links with a non-Rus/non-Scandinavian group/groups, when compared to many (not all) of the former.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    All of your 'sense' seems to only lead to attempts to denegrate DNA studies that interpret migration patterns and attempts to explain ethnicity, etc;

    To date, there hasn’t been any (in participatory terms) DNA study coming close to the population surveys from the areas in question.
     
    I'm no expert on the topic (as you seem to be :-) ), and can wait for other readers here to chime in. So far, melanf has presented information that contradicts your subjective (wishful) projections.
  208. @Mikhail
    Novgorod being in modern day Russia.

    A Novgorod prince resettled his base to Kiev, around the time of when the entity known as Rus (also termed as Kievan Rus) is dated to have begun. Kiev crown princes were involved with developing the areas in Moscow in Suzdal. "Ivan the Terrible" was from the Riurik line of monarchs who ruled over Rus. Likewise, it's not like there has been centuries of migration of others regarding the Rus lands that included Russia, Ukraine and Belarus.

    For accuracy sake, one should be wary of broad DNA claims. To date, there hasn't been any (in participatory terms) DNA study coming close to the population surveys from the areas in question.

    It makes sense that many (not all) of northwestern ethnic Russians have closer links to Scandinavia when compared to many (not all) Slavs in modern day Ukraine, with ancestral links to Kiev. Conversely, many (not all) of the latter grouping have links with a non-Rus/non-Scandinavian group/groups, when compared to many (not all) of the former.

    All of your ‘sense’ seems to only lead to attempts to denegrate DNA studies that interpret migration patterns and attempts to explain ethnicity, etc;

    To date, there hasn’t been any (in participatory terms) DNA study coming close to the population surveys from the areas in question.

    I’m no expert on the topic (as you seem to be 🙂 ), and can wait for other readers here to chime in. So far, melanf has presented information that contradicts your subjective (wishful) projections.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    As has been true in past instances, your sarcastic jibe is factually off the mark.
    , @Adam
    Northern Russians cluster with Finnic and Baltic populations. Central and southern Russians cluster with Poles, Belarussians, and Ukrainians. Swarthier appearance of Ukrainians and southern Russians is probably attributable to Balkan admixture.

    Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2253976/

    Seems pretty conclusive to me.
  209. @melanf

    I think that most historians would start the modern development of the Russian nation in Vladimir and not Novgorod. The first prince that is identified with this movement would be Vladimir III of Moscow in the 15th century.
     
    A strange mix of whistful thinking with the history of an alternate universe (Vladimir III of Moscow)

    You’ve got me. I meant Ivan III of Moscow:

    Ivan the Great,[1][2] was a Grand Prince of Moscow and “Grand Prince of all Rus’”. Sometimes referred to as the “gatherer of the Russian lands”, he tripled the territory of his state, ended the dominance of the Mongols/Tatars over Russia by defeating the Golden Horde, renovated the Moscow Kremlin, and laid the foundations of the Russian state. He was one of the longest-reigning Russian rulers in history.

    Perhaps even more grand than the current Czar!

    • Replies: @melanf

    I meant Ivan III of Moscow
     
    To say that the history of Russia begins with Ivan III, this is the same as to say that the history of Germany begins with Bismarck
  210. @Mr. Hack
    All of your 'sense' seems to only lead to attempts to denegrate DNA studies that interpret migration patterns and attempts to explain ethnicity, etc;

    To date, there hasn’t been any (in participatory terms) DNA study coming close to the population surveys from the areas in question.
     
    I'm no expert on the topic (as you seem to be :-) ), and can wait for other readers here to chime in. So far, melanf has presented information that contradicts your subjective (wishful) projections.

    As has been true in past instances, your sarcastic jibe is factually off the mark.

  211. Motivations are hard to know. Why Merkel did it will be only of academic interest. She also wasn’t alone – it must had been a group decision. The idea that they would actually think that this would ‘stir up’ EU economy, well, one can’t exclude it since they are mostly out-of-touch morons, but the economic argument is also a favorite excuse (a lie, really) for almost anything liberal globalists want to do. They justified 1999 war against Serbia as ‘important for economy’, and then Iraq, Libya, etc… they don’t believe it, it is just a way to sell things. Very similar to someone selling you on an investment.

    People like Merkel-Macron are salesmen for the global system – their main role is to manage the populace by doing enough promising and some pain to keep people from turning on the system.

    Epigon is right that the problem are the traitors among Europeans, and not just among the elites. Many of them benefit from the mass migration, e.g. the elderly, government workers, NGO prostitutes, older women with emotional instability, and now it seems that even our priests would rather have slightly larger flocks than a liveable society. Until this sizeable group is no longer making decisions – or blocking them – there is no way to change any of the policies.

    • Replies: @Mitleser

    Motivations are hard to know. Why Merkel did it will be only of academic interest.
     
    The Leftist were (and are) in favour of it.
    At that time, the three leftist parties (SPD, Greens, Left) had a majority in the federal parliament and she needed the votes of the SPD for her parliamentarian majority.
    Even more importantly, it was popular among the leftist journalists who are a large majority among the partisan journalists.
  212. @Mr. Hack
    All of your 'sense' seems to only lead to attempts to denegrate DNA studies that interpret migration patterns and attempts to explain ethnicity, etc;

    To date, there hasn’t been any (in participatory terms) DNA study coming close to the population surveys from the areas in question.
     
    I'm no expert on the topic (as you seem to be :-) ), and can wait for other readers here to chime in. So far, melanf has presented information that contradicts your subjective (wishful) projections.

    Northern Russians cluster with Finnic and Baltic populations. Central and southern Russians cluster with Poles, Belarussians, and Ukrainians. Swarthier appearance of Ukrainians and southern Russians is probably attributable to Balkan admixture.

    Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2253976/

    Seems pretty conclusive to me.

    • Replies: @Epigon
    Balkan admixture is veeery suspect.
    IIRC, I2 in the west Balkans is younger subclade than Carpathian I2, and the founder effect is noticeable.

    The Slavic ethnogenesis and the discussion on I2 proliferation direction has been discussed previously on AK’s threads, but nothing conclusive can be written - White Croats of Carpathians ——> Adriatic Croats story apparently has some backing proof.

    , @Mr. Hack
    Your summation of the article looks correct. Thanks for providing me with this link. The research is detailed and provides a lot to digest.
  213. Ukraine is fake and gay.
    They should have went with Rusia or Rosia, based on Kiev, Galich and all other Rurikid principalities and heritage.
    Present themselves as truer, better Rus’ heir, location of original Metropolitan seat.
    This would lead to a more natural form of nationalism along genetic/ethnic lines, so there wouldn’t be any pastors, Armenians, Georgians and abundant Jewry as is the case in present – in addition, they would avoid the conundrum of hating on Bolsheviks who gave them borders and statehood.
    After all, they could have taken the route of Koreas, Vietnams, Chinas, Germanies.

  214. @Adam
    Northern Russians cluster with Finnic and Baltic populations. Central and southern Russians cluster with Poles, Belarussians, and Ukrainians. Swarthier appearance of Ukrainians and southern Russians is probably attributable to Balkan admixture.

    Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2253976/

    Seems pretty conclusive to me.

    Balkan admixture is veeery suspect.
    IIRC, I2 in the west Balkans is younger subclade than Carpathian I2, and the founder effect is noticeable.

    The Slavic ethnogenesis and the discussion on I2 proliferation direction has been discussed previously on AK’s threads, but nothing conclusive can be written – White Croats of Carpathians ——> Adriatic Croats story apparently has some backing proof.

    • Replies: @Adam
    From the article:

    The third most frequent haplogroup in Russians is I1b, and its variation is also clinal (Figure 4B). The map on Figure 4B demonstrates that distribution of I1b inside the historic Russian area follows the “out-of-Balkans” decreasing trend:7 In southwestern Russians, its frequency is approximately 15%
     

    The remaining two haplogroups, J2 and E3b, exhibit spotty frequencies in Russians, expected for low-frequency haplogroups (Figures 4C and 4D; Table 2). The haplogroups might have arrived to Russia alongside I1b from the Balkans, in which the two are frequent.
     
  215. @Epigon
    Balkan admixture is veeery suspect.
    IIRC, I2 in the west Balkans is younger subclade than Carpathian I2, and the founder effect is noticeable.

    The Slavic ethnogenesis and the discussion on I2 proliferation direction has been discussed previously on AK’s threads, but nothing conclusive can be written - White Croats of Carpathians ——> Adriatic Croats story apparently has some backing proof.

    From the article:

    The third most frequent haplogroup in Russians is I1b, and its variation is also clinal (Figure 4B). The map on Figure 4B demonstrates that distribution of I1b inside the historic Russian area follows the “out-of-Balkans” decreasing trend:7 In southwestern Russians, its frequency is approximately 15%

    The remaining two haplogroups, J2 and E3b, exhibit spotty frequencies in Russians, expected for low-frequency haplogroups (Figures 4C and 4D; Table 2). The haplogroups might have arrived to Russia alongside I1b from the Balkans, in which the two are frequent.

    • Replies: @Epigon
    The explanation might be simpler and more recent - from 17th century onward Russian Empire imported Balkan Orthodox peoples -
    locally most famous were Novoserbia and Slavoserbia territories in modern day Ukraine, but it wasn’t limited to that - entire regiments were formed at times from immigrants - Serbs, Cincars, Vlachs, Wallachians. These people assimilated very quickly and could have introduced these foreign haplogroups in the areas they were settled - the areas colonised by Russians and previously held by Tatars and hordes probably saw very large fertility rates.

    In my previous post I was (wrongly) looking at I2 haplogroup which is intriguing because it peaks in west Balkans and to a less degree (west) Ukraine, and the subclades in Ukraine are older.

  216. @Adam
    From the article:

    The third most frequent haplogroup in Russians is I1b, and its variation is also clinal (Figure 4B). The map on Figure 4B demonstrates that distribution of I1b inside the historic Russian area follows the “out-of-Balkans” decreasing trend:7 In southwestern Russians, its frequency is approximately 15%
     

    The remaining two haplogroups, J2 and E3b, exhibit spotty frequencies in Russians, expected for low-frequency haplogroups (Figures 4C and 4D; Table 2). The haplogroups might have arrived to Russia alongside I1b from the Balkans, in which the two are frequent.
     

    The explanation might be simpler and more recent – from 17th century onward Russian Empire imported Balkan Orthodox peoples –
    locally most famous were Novoserbia and Slavoserbia territories in modern day Ukraine, but it wasn’t limited to that – entire regiments were formed at times from immigrants – Serbs, Cincars, Vlachs, Wallachians. These people assimilated very quickly and could have introduced these foreign haplogroups in the areas they were settled – the areas colonised by Russians and previously held by Tatars and hordes probably saw very large fertility rates.

    In my previous post I was (wrongly) looking at I2 haplogroup which is intriguing because it peaks in west Balkans and to a less degree (west) Ukraine, and the subclades in Ukraine are older.

    • Replies: @AP

    The explanation might be simpler and more recent – from 17th century onward Russian Empire imported Balkan Orthodox peoples
     
    This is probably wrong. Balkan settlement was mostly in so-called "New Russian" lands, but the Balkan genetic traces don't follow that border:

    https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-E1b1b.jpg

    In my previous post I was (wrongly) looking at I2 haplogroup which is intriguing because it peaks in west Balkans and to a less degree (west) Ukraine, and the subclades in Ukraine are older.
     
    This suggests western Ukrainian origins of Croats.
    , @Thorfinnsson
    Russian backwardness explained
  217. @Beckow
    I would say that the original liberalism (or unfettered capitalism) was defeated in the first half of the 20th century by different kinds of nationalism and socialism. Liberalism simply wasn't working - if you look at public discourse from that time, there is a consensus that liberalism was a failed system, few defended it any more.

    Liberalism didn't recover until late 20th century, first in the anglo world and then - often by force - elsewhere. This time a new trick was introduced: massive migration flows to destroy the power of labor. You can trace it to US 'supply side' ideology - the idea was that if there is close to unlimited supply of labor on all levels, the elites can take complete control of the society. Working people with limited power to negotiate are powerless, in some ways they approach almost feudal or slavery status - except they are free to move. That last part has destroyed the national nature of many societies. But the 'toys' - as always with unfettered business - are great, they were quite amazing the last time liberalism was reigning (what the f.k: a bicycle, now we have a talking phone).

    It has been done gradually, and it often exempts the current groups and is applied only to younger people to dilute resistance. But we know where this is going.

    This time a new trick was introduced: massive migration flows to destroy the power of labor. You can trace it to US ‘supply side’ ideology – the idea was that if there is close to unlimited supply of labor on all levels, the elites can take complete control of the society. Working people with limited power to negotiate are powerless, in some ways they approach almost feudal or slavery status – except they are free to move. That last part has destroyed the national nature of many societies.

    Oh vey, that sounds familiar.

  218. @reiner Tor

    The press kept secret the fact that the only four-term President of the United States was a cripple.
     
    In the 1930s and 1940s. Not many smartphone cameras around, nor social media where they could be shared. Would it still be possible in 2019?

    Yes.

    People if anything appear to be more, not less, influenced by propaganda now owing to its pervasiveness.

    If FDR were President today the idea that he’s crippled would be dismissed as a conspiracy theory promoted by Russian trolls.

  219. @Mr. Hack
    You've got me. I meant Ivan III of Moscow:

    Ivan the Great,[1][2] was a Grand Prince of Moscow and "Grand Prince of all Rus'". Sometimes referred to as the "gatherer of the Russian lands", he tripled the territory of his state, ended the dominance of the Mongols/Tatars over Russia by defeating the Golden Horde, renovated the Moscow Kremlin, and laid the foundations of the Russian state. He was one of the longest-reigning Russian rulers in history.
     
    Perhaps even more grand than the current Czar!

    I meant Ivan III of Moscow

    To say that the history of Russia begins with Ivan III, this is the same as to say that the history of Germany begins with Bismarck

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    And Ukrainian history with Shevchenko?
  220. @neutral
    So what could this be? Is this Parkinsons?

    Guilt.

  221. @Beckow
    Motivations are hard to know. Why Merkel did it will be only of academic interest. She also wasn't alone - it must had been a group decision. The idea that they would actually think that this would 'stir up' EU economy, well, one can't exclude it since they are mostly out-of-touch morons, but the economic argument is also a favorite excuse (a lie, really) for almost anything liberal globalists want to do. They justified 1999 war against Serbia as 'important for economy', and then Iraq, Libya, etc... they don't believe it, it is just a way to sell things. Very similar to someone selling you on an investment.

    People like Merkel-Macron are salesmen for the global system - their main role is to manage the populace by doing enough promising and some pain to keep people from turning on the system.

    Epigon is right that the problem are the traitors among Europeans, and not just among the elites. Many of them benefit from the mass migration, e.g. the elderly, government workers, NGO prostitutes, older women with emotional instability, and now it seems that even our priests would rather have slightly larger flocks than a liveable society. Until this sizeable group is no longer making decisions - or blocking them - there is no way to change any of the policies.

    Motivations are hard to know. Why Merkel did it will be only of academic interest.

    The Leftist were (and are) in favour of it.
    At that time, the three leftist parties (SPD, Greens, Left) had a majority in the federal parliament and she needed the votes of the SPD for her parliamentarian majority.
    Even more importantly, it was popular among the leftist journalists who are a large majority among the partisan journalists.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    But the leftists are not in power in Germany, Merkel and her Christian Democrats are. I understand the coalition politics, still on matters of importance it is unthinkable that CDU would defer to the left. Merkel&Co. own this.

    The journalists' liberalism (often fanatical) is a bigger problem. The verbal warriors have been out of control all over the world. How did we end up turning over the civilization to the talkers?
  222. AP says:
    @RadicalCenter
    Do you want to live as a nonMuslim minority in a Muslim society? Or, separate if overlapping questions, do you want to live as a minority in a heavily African, Arab, Turk, or Pakistani society? One need not hate those peoples, and I don’t, to want to strive hard to avoid that fate.

    Are you aware of some Italian baby boom in or around Rome or Naples that the rest of us haven’t heard about?

    Have the nonEuropean and Muslim populations increased in both those cities — every year without exception — for the past couple decades, or not?

    As the Italian populace on average ages even further, there will be fewer Italian women of healthy/safe childbearing age left to start turning things around. That will cause the excess of Italian deaths over births to increase.

    Even if the noneuropean and Muslim settlers in Italy lower their fertility to mere replacement rate — a very optimistic assumption — Italians themselves have a shockingly low TFR and will make up a slightly smaller share of the population, then the electorate, each year.

    We haven’t even speculated on white and nonMuslim flight out of northern, western, and Central Europe. That phenomenon may pick up steam substantially pretty soon as levels of violence, intimidation, and hostility against both whites and nonMuslims increases.

    As for Austria, check the numbers on Muslim students as a percentage of Vienna schools and tell me that Muslims (especially Turks, in that case) will not be a majority within 20-25 years.

    But your violin crack was really clever, and a good argument to boot.

    As for Austria, check the numbers on Muslim students as a percentage of Vienna schools and tell me that Muslims (especially Turks, in that case) will not be a majority within 20-25 years.

    I was just in Vienna, It was no more Muslim than Moscow – that is, there were some, but not many, it was basically a European city. Stats on schools don’t include private schools, that are all Catholic.

    It’s just a ridiculous comment about Vienna.

    • Replies: @Matra
    I was just in Vienna, It was no more Muslim than Moscow – that is, there were some, but not many, it was basically a European city.

    ... It’s just a ridiculous comment about Vienna.

    Really? Here's my comment from another thread:

    Vienna has plenty of diversity just not so much in the tourist areas. In 2018 I stayed for two nights in the area south of Wien Hbf by Keplerplatz. It looked to be about 50% non-white, virtually all Turkish-looking in appearances with plenty of headscarves. There were still plenty of bars and restaurants, food stalls, etc, selling pork products, and at least one strip club, so the Muslims don’t seem to be laying down the law, so to speak. But things change fast.

    That 50% non-white was based on all people so amongst children it would be higher. I went into one pub and one McDonald's - it was late Sunday, nothing else was open! - ALL staff were Turkish-looking in both places.

    I went to a few other areas - based on Brigitte Hamann's Hitler book - and found that although it was a mostly European city, some areas were very diverse.

    I've been to Vienna four times this decade and my general impression is that although it is whiter than your typical "western" capital European city like London, Brussels, or Paris it is heading for majority-minority in a hurry. Of the places I observed only The Ring area - where tourists hang out - and the neighbourhoods to its north (where I stayed in 2012), were predominantly European.

    I don't believe any stats on this subject put out by any European Union government.

    , @Mr. XYZ
    What about Berlin?
  223. AP says:
    @Epigon
    The explanation might be simpler and more recent - from 17th century onward Russian Empire imported Balkan Orthodox peoples -
    locally most famous were Novoserbia and Slavoserbia territories in modern day Ukraine, but it wasn’t limited to that - entire regiments were formed at times from immigrants - Serbs, Cincars, Vlachs, Wallachians. These people assimilated very quickly and could have introduced these foreign haplogroups in the areas they were settled - the areas colonised by Russians and previously held by Tatars and hordes probably saw very large fertility rates.

    In my previous post I was (wrongly) looking at I2 haplogroup which is intriguing because it peaks in west Balkans and to a less degree (west) Ukraine, and the subclades in Ukraine are older.

    The explanation might be simpler and more recent – from 17th century onward Russian Empire imported Balkan Orthodox peoples

    This is probably wrong. Balkan settlement was mostly in so-called “New Russian” lands, but the Balkan genetic traces don’t follow that border:

    In my previous post I was (wrongly) looking at I2 haplogroup which is intriguing because it peaks in west Balkans and to a less degree (west) Ukraine, and the subclades in Ukraine are older.

    This suggests western Ukrainian origins of Croats.

    • Replies: @Epigon

    This is probably wrong. Balkan settlement was mostly in so-called “New Russian” lands, but the Balkan genetic traces don’t follow that border:
     
    I can’t see the map, but I’ve always wondered how reliable these genetic studies are regarding exact positioning of genes because the sample numbers are very small for such large areas and populations, and Ukraine+south Russia saw significant internal migrations during Imperial and Soviet times.

    The earlier Balkan recruitment predates Novorossiya - Peter the Great’s reign is when it started. But you are probably right that it can’t explain (all of) the Balkan admixture.

    , @Mr. XYZ
    Didn't you previously post a study that said that northern Croats are genetically close to Slovenians and other Slavs while southern Croats are genetically close to Balkan pseudo-Slavs?
  224. @Epigon
    The explanation might be simpler and more recent - from 17th century onward Russian Empire imported Balkan Orthodox peoples -
    locally most famous were Novoserbia and Slavoserbia territories in modern day Ukraine, but it wasn’t limited to that - entire regiments were formed at times from immigrants - Serbs, Cincars, Vlachs, Wallachians. These people assimilated very quickly and could have introduced these foreign haplogroups in the areas they were settled - the areas colonised by Russians and previously held by Tatars and hordes probably saw very large fertility rates.

    In my previous post I was (wrongly) looking at I2 haplogroup which is intriguing because it peaks in west Balkans and to a less degree (west) Ukraine, and the subclades in Ukraine are older.

    Russian backwardness explained

    • LOL: Epigon
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Russian, is genetically closest to Latvians, Estonians, Lithuanians and to some extent Finns. And then in other areas of the country, to nationalities like Poles and Ukrainians.

    For example, Northern Russia - Balts almost the same all the way to Samara

    https://i.imgur.com/MGTn3Yn.png

    But on the other side, Poles are mapping all the way to Saratov

    https://i.imgur.com/5eIO80u.png


    Balkan people genetically, are a different race, if we believe these maps. Balkan people are related to nationalities like Romanians and Italians.

    For example, genetic map of the Romanians.

    https://i.imgur.com/kyClqEK.png


    -

    If you talk about cultural connection. Balkans' peoples have cultural mix, which seems to me like an intermediate point between Austria and Greece plus effects of communism.

    They're drinking coffee and cooking with olive oil. The parts which were in Austro-Hungarian Empire, seem like the most modernized (if by which, we mean close to Viennese time).

    Cities like Belgrade and Zagreb look like they have beautiful opera houses and 19th century architecture.

  225. I am late to this thread, but better late than never.

    AP is correct by his observation that Polish youth is both becoming more in tune with globohomo on faggotry and secularism while at the same time being more right-wing on refugees/immigration. Call it the Czechification of Polish youth.

    I still agree with Adam that the long-term prospects of Poland will be challenging given the immense pressure being applied. I am not talking about the passive-aggressive back-and-forth with Brussels. AK had a great post a few years ago wherein he compared Estonians by the kind of media they tuned into. He found that the differences between Russian speakers and Estonian speakers were nil in the older age groups but then diverged very sharply as you went down the age group. Russian speakers, because they continued tuning into Russian media, retained a much greater social conservatism on issues such as gay marriage. Estonians got soaked in GloboHomo. The lesson is that the media and culture ultimately matters a lot more than the nominal political party in charge. After all, Russians were ruled by the same parties.

    A perfect US analogy would be the long GOP domination from 1980 until 1992. There was a lot of talk about the resurgence of the evanglical right etc, but in the end they didn’t control the key nodes of the cultural institutions and that made all the difference. PiS only really controls a single TV station.

    Polish internet is quite free and largely without censorship. Our version of reddit (Wykop) regularly has race realist content, outright white nationalist stuff at times. However, Father Coughlin was a proto-fascist who named the Jew in the 1930s and with a few decrees he got shut down after FDR was convinced by (((advisers))) to do so. 30 million listeners were homeless overnight. The “free market” is a myth.

    I’m seeing eerie similarities with the 1930s today, though not as that sentence is usually understood. I’m talking about how radio, which started out as a low-cost populist method to communicate with large swaths of people turned into a tightly controlled medium for the entrenched classes the moment it threatened the real power structures and no longer concerned itself with horse race political talk. This is what is happening to the internet as I write this. Poland, which is wedded to Western institutions, is not immune to this. Russia is.

    Bragging that Poland is whiter than Russia is meaningless. Russia has genuine sovereignty. Putin might be an (occasional) cuck but at least Russians have their own destiny in their hands. Poland is a buffer state, like the rest of intermarium, and a lot of commentary here seem to miss that central fact. The fate of buffer states get decided in more powerful capitals. Such are the historical facts. An intermarium alliance could change that but in my view, such a constellation remains a pipedream (I’ve outlined why in other comments).

    Ultimately, I am quite secure in my belief that Poland will eke it out for longer than most, if not all, other countries. But as others hinted: being the last guy on a sinking ship is hardly an achievement. I do not believe in “Eastern Exceptionalism” except for Russia, really. The rest of us have a choice to make. Either we team up with the Westerners in Europe and upend the existing order, failing that we form our own intermarium (I’m a skeptic) or we move into Russia’s sphere of influence in some sort of pan-Slavic transmogrification. Either way, I am not a big believer in fatalism and I dismiss historical theories of ‘inevitability’. What will happen is very much in our collective hands.

    P.S. I’m glad you liked the book, AK. If you’re interested in India then I’d recommend Vijay Joshi’s 2016 book on the Indian economy. It serves a similar purpose: being an encompassing yet highly readable introduction to an intelligent audience without skipping on depth of detail. The book is quite academic at times but Joshi is a skilled narrator. Alternatively, TN Ninan’s book would also be a good start though it has a wider canvas and deals with politics and foreign policy. Ninan also enjoys using a lot of personal anecdotes to anchor his book whereas Joshi is the classic Oxbridge professor in being about pure theory as much as possible.

    • Replies: @Mitleser

    A perfect US analogy would be the long GOP domination from 1980 until 1992. There was a lot of talk about the resurgence of the evanglical right etc, but in the end they didn’t control the key nodes of the cultural institutions and that made all the difference. PiS only really controls a single TV station.
     
    Reminds me of what (or not) happened in (West-)Germany at that time.
    The FRG was run by Kohl and his center-right CDU, there was talk about spiritual and moral turn after a decade of SocDem-Liberal rule, there was talk about halving the Turkish population in Germany.
    Neither happened, and in the end Kohl's son Peter married a Turk.
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    Thanks for the recommendations, I downloaded the first book. Good to see you around again!
  226. @melanf

    I meant Ivan III of Moscow
     
    To say that the history of Russia begins with Ivan III, this is the same as to say that the history of Germany begins with Bismarck

    And Ukrainian history with Shevchenko?

  227. @AP

    The explanation might be simpler and more recent – from 17th century onward Russian Empire imported Balkan Orthodox peoples
     
    This is probably wrong. Balkan settlement was mostly in so-called "New Russian" lands, but the Balkan genetic traces don't follow that border:

    https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-E1b1b.jpg

    In my previous post I was (wrongly) looking at I2 haplogroup which is intriguing because it peaks in west Balkans and to a less degree (west) Ukraine, and the subclades in Ukraine are older.
     
    This suggests western Ukrainian origins of Croats.

    This is probably wrong. Balkan settlement was mostly in so-called “New Russian” lands, but the Balkan genetic traces don’t follow that border:

    I can’t see the map, but I’ve always wondered how reliable these genetic studies are regarding exact positioning of genes because the sample numbers are very small for such large areas and populations, and Ukraine+south Russia saw significant internal migrations during Imperial and Soviet times.

    The earlier Balkan recruitment predates Novorossiya – Peter the Great’s reign is when it started. But you are probably right that it can’t explain (all of) the Balkan admixture.

  228. @Polish Perspective
    I am late to this thread, but better late than never.

    AP is correct by his observation that Polish youth is both becoming more in tune with globohomo on faggotry and secularism while at the same time being more right-wing on refugees/immigration. Call it the Czechification of Polish youth.

    I still agree with Adam that the long-term prospects of Poland will be challenging given the immense pressure being applied. I am not talking about the passive-aggressive back-and-forth with Brussels. AK had a great post a few years ago wherein he compared Estonians by the kind of media they tuned into. He found that the differences between Russian speakers and Estonian speakers were nil in the older age groups but then diverged very sharply as you went down the age group. Russian speakers, because they continued tuning into Russian media, retained a much greater social conservatism on issues such as gay marriage. Estonians got soaked in GloboHomo. The lesson is that the media and culture ultimately matters a lot more than the nominal political party in charge. After all, Russians were ruled by the same parties.

    A perfect US analogy would be the long GOP domination from 1980 until 1992. There was a lot of talk about the resurgence of the evanglical right etc, but in the end they didn't control the key nodes of the cultural institutions and that made all the difference. PiS only really controls a single TV station.

    Polish internet is quite free and largely without censorship. Our version of reddit (Wykop) regularly has race realist content, outright white nationalist stuff at times. However, Father Coughlin was a proto-fascist who named the Jew in the 1930s and with a few decrees he got shut down after FDR was convinced by (((advisers))) to do so. 30 million listeners were homeless overnight. The "free market" is a myth.

    I'm seeing eerie similarities with the 1930s today, though not as that sentence is usually understood. I'm talking about how radio, which started out as a low-cost populist method to communicate with large swaths of people turned into a tightly controlled medium for the entrenched classes the moment it threatened the real power structures and no longer concerned itself with horse race political talk. This is what is happening to the internet as I write this. Poland, which is wedded to Western institutions, is not immune to this. Russia is.

    Bragging that Poland is whiter than Russia is meaningless. Russia has genuine sovereignty. Putin might be an (occasional) cuck but at least Russians have their own destiny in their hands. Poland is a buffer state, like the rest of intermarium, and a lot of commentary here seem to miss that central fact. The fate of buffer states get decided in more powerful capitals. Such are the historical facts. An intermarium alliance could change that but in my view, such a constellation remains a pipedream (I've outlined why in other comments).

    Ultimately, I am quite secure in my belief that Poland will eke it out for longer than most, if not all, other countries. But as others hinted: being the last guy on a sinking ship is hardly an achievement. I do not believe in "Eastern Exceptionalism" except for Russia, really. The rest of us have a choice to make. Either we team up with the Westerners in Europe and upend the existing order, failing that we form our own intermarium (I'm a skeptic) or we move into Russia's sphere of influence in some sort of pan-Slavic transmogrification. Either way, I am not a big believer in fatalism and I dismiss historical theories of 'inevitability'. What will happen is very much in our collective hands.

    P.S. I'm glad you liked the book, AK. If you're interested in India then I'd recommend Vijay Joshi's 2016 book on the Indian economy. It serves a similar purpose: being an encompassing yet highly readable introduction to an intelligent audience without skipping on depth of detail. The book is quite academic at times but Joshi is a skilled narrator. Alternatively, TN Ninan's book would also be a good start though it has a wider canvas and deals with politics and foreign policy. Ninan also enjoys using a lot of personal anecdotes to anchor his book whereas Joshi is the classic Oxbridge professor in being about pure theory as much as possible.

    A perfect US analogy would be the long GOP domination from 1980 until 1992. There was a lot of talk about the resurgence of the evanglical right etc, but in the end they didn’t control the key nodes of the cultural institutions and that made all the difference. PiS only really controls a single TV station.

    Reminds me of what (or not) happened in (West-)Germany at that time.
    The FRG was run by Kohl and his center-right CDU, there was talk about spiritual and moral turn after a decade of SocDem-Liberal rule, there was talk about halving the Turkish population in Germany.
    Neither happened, and in the end Kohl’s son Peter married a Turk.

  229. @RadicalCenter
    Nobody of even average intelligence and reasoning abilities — merely or anyone — could sincerely think that the economy would be helped by importing millions of people who do not speak or understand let alone read and write the German language, lack any meaningful training or education or marketable skills in their own countries already, are native speakers of totally unrelated languages.

    Add in the fact that in Germany, like in the USA and elsewhere, large numbers of unskilled and lower-skilled jobs are being eliminated by automation and scanners, and will be eliminated by more capable robots and artificial intelligence in the immediate future, not the long term. Specifically many jobs as supermarket checkout jobs, restaurant cook, retail clerk, office work like insurance claims adjusting, truck or Uber driver — the very jobs that unskilled or low-skilled people with limited German knowledge might do —- are diminishing and will likely be much more greatly diminished soon.

    Add in the fact that the invaders, aka migrants, were and are overwhelmingly adherents of a religion that teaches them to hate and subjugate the natives, and come from otherwise incompatible or less compatible cultures, and it becomes an even more obviously suicidal idea.

    Yeah, there are already few jobs that the invaders can do, and the jobs they might do are being automated and otherwise eliminated, but at least they’re not from a similar kindred people and observe a religion that command them to conquer and subjugate and never truly compromise or assimilate wherever they go.

    If you think Merkel sincerely thought that the invaders would help Germans or their economy, you are far too naive or just a nice person giving too much credit ;)

    Remember merkel’s disgusted reaction when handed a German flag. She hates her own people and at a minimum doesn’t care whether they survive and thrive as their own culture and polity.

    Germany is almost at the point of no return. If they admit zero Muslims and zero nonEuropeans for permanent settlement from 2020 on, the existing muslim and noneuropean population continues to grow by births while the German population continues to decline. Every single year, without exception.

    As for percentages, no way is the EU only 4-5% Muslim now. More to the point, some countries are nearing ten percent and growing fast, as well as caving to Islam and increasingly aggressive Muslims demanding that their lifestyle, mores and rules replace white European law and culture (including sharia law): Sweden, followed by France and England and the Benelux countries.

    We will have a Muslim-majority London, Paris, Stockholm, Rome and Naples, Vienna, Belgium, Amsterdam and Rotterdam within 20 years, not longer. Wait till the white flight, and simply nonMuslim flight, begin in earnest from the EU to Eastern Europe, the USA and Canada, and Russia if Russia allows it.

    As for percentages, no way is the EU only 4-5% Muslim now. More to the point, some countries are nearing ten percent and growing fast, as well as caving to Islam and increasingly aggressive Muslims demanding that their lifestyle, mores and rules replace white European law and culture (including sharia law): Sweden, followed by France and England and the Benelux countries.

    It is a two-way street. Middle Easterners in Europe are also influenced by the prevailing decadent popular culture – this doesn’t imply convergence to European norms, but perhaps something similar to the behaviour of American ghetto blacks or white trash.

    Many of them are into drugs, rap, promiscuity*, etc.

    Yes, in all Sunni demographics there will always be at least a small core of Salafists who are willing to commit terrorist actions, but on the whole I believe modernity will emerge victorious and Western Europe’s future, presuming that the present course countinues, will resemble more America or Brazil than it will Saudi Arabia.

    *There’s a quasi-French term《Beurettes à khel》for Maghrebin women who date African males, suggesting that the phenomenon has already started to reach a certain level of prominence and notoriety.

    • Replies: @Epigon

    Maghrebin women who date African males,
     
    The making of Uruk-Hai
    , @Hyperborean

    Middle Easterners in Europe are also influenced by the prevailing decadent popular culture – this doesn’t imply convergence to European norms, but perhaps something similar to the behaviour of American ghetto blacks or white trash.
     


    In particular, these girls are accused of wearing the veil only to better hide their "behaviours of
    little virtue", which deviate from tradition (naked photos, cigarettes and bottles of alcohol in hand, outings to shisha bars, etc.) and to justify their love with black boys by the excuse "he is Muslim, so it's good" (understood: "you can't fault it, because only Allah can judge us")

    [...]

    Yes. I also often hear that it's because of celebrities like Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt that teenage girls want mixed-race children. Apparently, it's a new fashion. Having a baby with origins that is less "wheaty." I also hear that the "beurettes à khel" are fans of Kim Kardashian who is dating Kanye West, and that the renois [blacks] are popular thanks to US rap. One time, a young girl also explained to me that they had "more style".

     

    https://www.vice.com/amp/fr/article/yv8nnx/la-chasse-aux-beurettes-a-renoi-est-ouverte-sur-facebook
  230. @Hyperborean

    As for percentages, no way is the EU only 4-5% Muslim now. More to the point, some countries are nearing ten percent and growing fast, as well as caving to Islam and increasingly aggressive Muslims demanding that their lifestyle, mores and rules replace white European law and culture (including sharia law): Sweden, followed by France and England and the Benelux countries.
     
    It is a two-way street. Middle Easterners in Europe are also influenced by the prevailing decadent popular culture - this doesn't imply convergence to European norms, but perhaps something similar to the behaviour of American ghetto blacks or white trash.

    Many of them are into drugs, rap, promiscuity*, etc.

    Yes, in all Sunni demographics there will always be at least a small core of Salafists who are willing to commit terrorist actions, but on the whole I believe modernity will emerge victorious and Western Europe's future, presuming that the present course countinues, will resemble more America or Brazil than it will Saudi Arabia.

    *There's a quasi-French term《Beurettes à khel》for Maghrebin women who date African males, suggesting that the phenomenon has already started to reach a certain level of prominence and notoriety.

    Maghrebin women who date African males,

    The making of Uruk-Hai

  231. @Hyperborean

    As for percentages, no way is the EU only 4-5% Muslim now. More to the point, some countries are nearing ten percent and growing fast, as well as caving to Islam and increasingly aggressive Muslims demanding that their lifestyle, mores and rules replace white European law and culture (including sharia law): Sweden, followed by France and England and the Benelux countries.
     
    It is a two-way street. Middle Easterners in Europe are also influenced by the prevailing decadent popular culture - this doesn't imply convergence to European norms, but perhaps something similar to the behaviour of American ghetto blacks or white trash.

    Many of them are into drugs, rap, promiscuity*, etc.

    Yes, in all Sunni demographics there will always be at least a small core of Salafists who are willing to commit terrorist actions, but on the whole I believe modernity will emerge victorious and Western Europe's future, presuming that the present course countinues, will resemble more America or Brazil than it will Saudi Arabia.

    *There's a quasi-French term《Beurettes à khel》for Maghrebin women who date African males, suggesting that the phenomenon has already started to reach a certain level of prominence and notoriety.

    Middle Easterners in Europe are also influenced by the prevailing decadent popular culture – this doesn’t imply convergence to European norms, but perhaps something similar to the behaviour of American ghetto blacks or white trash.

    In particular, these girls are accused of wearing the veil only to better hide their “behaviours of
    little virtue”, which deviate from tradition (naked photos, cigarettes and bottles of alcohol in hand, outings to shisha bars, etc.) and to justify their love with black boys by the excuse “he is Muslim, so it’s good” (understood: “you can’t fault it, because only Allah can judge us”)

    […]

    Yes. I also often hear that it’s because of celebrities like Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt that teenage girls want mixed-race children. Apparently, it’s a new fashion. Having a baby with origins that is less “wheaty.” I also hear that the “beurettes à khel” are fans of Kim Kardashian who is dating Kanye West, and that the renois [blacks] are popular thanks to US rap. One time, a young girl also explained to me that they had “more style”.

    https://www.vice.com/amp/fr/article/yv8nnx/la-chasse-aux-beurettes-a-renoi-est-ouverte-sur-facebook

  232. Behold, the anti-Iranian geriatric troll army in Albania.

  233. @Anatoly Karlin
    Look, the point is that with 100,000 Negroes in Russia, you would be seeing packs of them every single day in Moscow whenever you use the metro.

    In reality, I see them about 2-3 times a month - and I do get out quite a bit. They are almost invariably either tourists or student types.

    I don't need some hack from the BBC who laments that Russia has too few Negroes to lecture me about my lying eyes.

    If anyone is afraid that the Crips will get them in Russia, they can move to the Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic like Weev.

  234. @Mitleser

    Motivations are hard to know. Why Merkel did it will be only of academic interest.
     
    The Leftist were (and are) in favour of it.
    At that time, the three leftist parties (SPD, Greens, Left) had a majority in the federal parliament and she needed the votes of the SPD for her parliamentarian majority.
    Even more importantly, it was popular among the leftist journalists who are a large majority among the partisan journalists.

    But the leftists are not in power in Germany, Merkel and her Christian Democrats are. I understand the coalition politics, still on matters of importance it is unthinkable that CDU would defer to the left. Merkel&Co. own this.

    The journalists’ liberalism (often fanatical) is a bigger problem. The verbal warriors have been out of control all over the world. How did we end up turning over the civilization to the talkers?

    • Replies: @utu
    "How did we end up turning over the civilization to the talkers?" - Ask the Jews.
    , @Mitleser
    Hardly unthinkable.
    The Merkel-era CDU has turned into a centrist party with barely any right-wingers*.
    And centrists tend to defer to the more powerful vocal minority.

    *WerteUnion, a conservative group in the current CDU has 2k members, less than 0,5% of the 400k+ CDU members.
  235. @AP

    As for Austria, check the numbers on Muslim students as a percentage of Vienna schools and tell me that Muslims (especially Turks, in that case) will not be a majority within 20-25 years.
     
    I was just in Vienna, It was no more Muslim than Moscow - that is, there were some, but not many, it was basically a European city. Stats on schools don't include private schools, that are all Catholic.

    It's just a ridiculous comment about Vienna.

    I was just in Vienna, It was no more Muslim than Moscow – that is, there were some, but not many, it was basically a European city.

    … It’s just a ridiculous comment about Vienna.

    Really? Here’s my comment from another thread:

    Vienna has plenty of diversity just not so much in the tourist areas. In 2018 I stayed for two nights in the area south of Wien Hbf by Keplerplatz. It looked to be about 50% non-white, virtually all Turkish-looking in appearances with plenty of headscarves. There were still plenty of bars and restaurants, food stalls, etc, selling pork products, and at least one strip club, so the Muslims don’t seem to be laying down the law, so to speak. But things change fast.

    That 50% non-white was based on all people so amongst children it would be higher. I went into one pub and one McDonald’s – it was late Sunday, nothing else was open! – ALL staff were Turkish-looking in both places.

    I went to a few other areas – based on Brigitte Hamann’s Hitler book – and found that although it was a mostly European city, some areas were very diverse.

    I’ve been to Vienna four times this decade and my general impression is that although it is whiter than your typical “western” capital European city like London, Brussels, or Paris it is heading for majority-minority in a hurry. Of the places I observed only The Ring area – where tourists hang out – and the neighbourhoods to its north (where I stayed in 2012), were predominantly European.

    I don’t believe any stats on this subject put out by any European Union government.

    • Replies: @AP
    I admittedly spent only 5 days in the city before heading to the Alps. I rented an apartment in the inner district and spent that time walking around, at all hours, throughout the central city, between going to museums. I saw a lot of Arabs selling fruits and foods in the Naschmarket (analogous to Azeris selling stuff in Moscow markets). I saw exactly two refugees. One was begging by St. Stephen's, another was softly saying the word "bitte" by a sausage stand on Miriahilferstrasse (not as heavily touristed like Graben or Kartner, and basically all-white).

    I believe that there are minority neighborhoods outside the center of Vienna; they also exist in Moscow. My brother-in-law moved out of a Moscow neighborhood that was becoming too brown (his kid picking up an Azeri accent at the grade school was the last straw). But the overall impression is that Vienna is comparable to Moscow in terms of European-ness. Darker than Kiev or Warsaw but in no danger of flipping soon, certainly not in 20 years.

    I did notice Turkish-looking people by the main train station.

    I don’t believe any stats on this subject put out by any European Union government.
     
    For what it's worth, in 2011 Vienna was officially 11.6% Muslim. Moscow officially is only 3.6% Muslim but actually it probably approaches Vienna's official figure, I'd guess around 10%.

    The largest group of foreigners in Vienna was Serbs, then Germans, then Turks. I did notice Serbs and Croats working in shops or as waitresses.
  236. AP says:
    @Matra
    I was just in Vienna, It was no more Muslim than Moscow – that is, there were some, but not many, it was basically a European city.

    ... It’s just a ridiculous comment about Vienna.

    Really? Here's my comment from another thread:

    Vienna has plenty of diversity just not so much in the tourist areas. In 2018 I stayed for two nights in the area south of Wien Hbf by Keplerplatz. It looked to be about 50% non-white, virtually all Turkish-looking in appearances with plenty of headscarves. There were still plenty of bars and restaurants, food stalls, etc, selling pork products, and at least one strip club, so the Muslims don’t seem to be laying down the law, so to speak. But things change fast.

    That 50% non-white was based on all people so amongst children it would be higher. I went into one pub and one McDonald's - it was late Sunday, nothing else was open! - ALL staff were Turkish-looking in both places.

    I went to a few other areas - based on Brigitte Hamann's Hitler book - and found that although it was a mostly European city, some areas were very diverse.

    I've been to Vienna four times this decade and my general impression is that although it is whiter than your typical "western" capital European city like London, Brussels, or Paris it is heading for majority-minority in a hurry. Of the places I observed only The Ring area - where tourists hang out - and the neighbourhoods to its north (where I stayed in 2012), were predominantly European.

    I don't believe any stats on this subject put out by any European Union government.

    I admittedly spent only 5 days in the city before heading to the Alps. I rented an apartment in the inner district and spent that time walking around, at all hours, throughout the central city, between going to museums. I saw a lot of Arabs selling fruits and foods in the Naschmarket (analogous to Azeris selling stuff in Moscow markets). I saw exactly two refugees. One was begging by St. Stephen’s, another was softly saying the word “bitte” by a sausage stand on Miriahilferstrasse (not as heavily touristed like Graben or Kartner, and basically all-white).

    I believe that there are minority neighborhoods outside the center of Vienna; they also exist in Moscow. My brother-in-law moved out of a Moscow neighborhood that was becoming too brown (his kid picking up an Azeri accent at the grade school was the last straw). But the overall impression is that Vienna is comparable to Moscow in terms of European-ness. Darker than Kiev or Warsaw but in no danger of flipping soon, certainly not in 20 years.

    I did notice Turkish-looking people by the main train station.

    I don’t believe any stats on this subject put out by any European Union government.

    For what it’s worth, in 2011 Vienna was officially 11.6% Muslim. Moscow officially is only 3.6% Muslim but actually it probably approaches Vienna’s official figure, I’d guess around 10%.

    The largest group of foreigners in Vienna was Serbs, then Germans, then Turks. I did notice Serbs and Croats working in shops or as waitresses.

  237. @Adam
    Northern Russians cluster with Finnic and Baltic populations. Central and southern Russians cluster with Poles, Belarussians, and Ukrainians. Swarthier appearance of Ukrainians and southern Russians is probably attributable to Balkan admixture.

    Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2253976/

    Seems pretty conclusive to me.

    Your summation of the article looks correct. Thanks for providing me with this link. The research is detailed and provides a lot to digest.

  238. @Beckow
    But the leftists are not in power in Germany, Merkel and her Christian Democrats are. I understand the coalition politics, still on matters of importance it is unthinkable that CDU would defer to the left. Merkel&Co. own this.

    The journalists' liberalism (often fanatical) is a bigger problem. The verbal warriors have been out of control all over the world. How did we end up turning over the civilization to the talkers?

    “How did we end up turning over the civilization to the talkers?” – Ask the Jews.

  239. @LondonBob
    I remember reading an economic report put out by an investment bank, can't remember the name of it, where they talk about this as being a motivator for Merkel admitting the immigrants and it being discussed as such at Davos. We might not understand it but we should know what our opponents think. That is why biodiversity is important and scientifically debunking blank statism matters.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-05-19/saxobank-cio-warns-central-banks-can-do-nothing

    TF: Earlier this year, you said that the social contract – the agreement between rulers and the ruled – is broken. It made me think of this year’s Davos meeting, which showed a leadership class terrified of slowing jobs growth and enamoured with the idea that population movements might be used to address this. Given the current unpopularity of globalisation and its effects, would you say that there are some things it is impossible for 21st century leaders and the led to agree upon? Is a social contract impossible?

    https://www.tradingfloor.com/posts/what-do-they-believe-in-davos-6971367

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Disastrous demographics mean smaller workforces in the future absent immigration.

    It's a real problem.

    If it's true that Merkel's blunder was motivated by a desire to increase the size of Germany's workforce and not just fear of the press, then you're correct that it's even more important for us to continue debunking blank slatism.

    Beyond simply debunking blank slatism, mindless anti-racism has to be attacked. Blank slateists who are none the less cultural conservatives also knew this invasion was going to be a disaster. After all, the blank slateist position is that "culture" is an incredibly magical and powerful force that has decisive, lifelong effects beginning in early childhood. "Syrians" suffer from a lack of universal preschool and thus are doomed to never be productive workers.

    Alternative solutions to the shrinking workforce problem are also needed. We already have the lowest cost of capital, the highest level of technology, and the highest labor costs in history. So mindlessly saying "automation" is not a solution.

    The globalists have already fixed on mobilizing women into the workforce, which is unfortunately harvesting the seed corn. We ought to propose more flex-time and part-time arrangements for women so that they can balance work with family life. It ought to be routine in industrial economies for there to be 20-30 workweeks available for mothers. I'm sure there are a number of women who would like to keep working in some way but do not want to sacrifice family life to do so.

    Reducing "retirement" is another obvious solution. Japan is doing great work in keeping the elderly in the workforce. Western countries are not as good at this, and in some age discrimination is rampant (it's particularly bad in Sweden for instance). And much like with mothers, a lot of elderly workers would like to remain in the workforce but are no longer interested in their golden years in pulling long workweeks. Legislation and cultural propaganda should mobilize to address this.

    The flip side of old people working is getting young people working sooner. Unfortunately, this gets closer to the heart of the system's worldview. In order to get young people and even children working, it's necessary to demolish the myth of "education". And that means a serious assault on the blank slate. At least in the United States there are now people within the mainstream questioning college for everyone, but making progress on this front will be really difficult. There are a lot of people who should start working full time by age 14, and there's no way that will be accepted today. Even ordinary people are brainwashed into believing that everyone must complete high school.

    Shrinking the public sector and parasitic parts of the private sector (if done in a gradual way that doesn't damage aggregate demand) would increase the size of the productive labor force. This would be another very difficult political project, as while it doesn't challenge the blank state it challenges powerful political constituencies like the military-industrial complex, unionized public sector workers, teachers, firefighters, income tax preparers, etc.

    I also think we could get a lot more useful work out of people if they were actually healthy. Especially if they were healthy in middle and old age. We'd spend less on healthcare as well. This one is again extremely difficult as it requires going against lots of entrenched lobbies, getting fags to admit to being WRONG, and also forcing people to change their habits.

    The real solution is of course restoring healthy demographics, but even if they are prepared to listen to us (which they're not) it will take time to fix demographics. In the mean time economic problems will need to be addressed by using other techniques to expand the productive workforce.
  240. Our Duke of Qin wrote that the South China Morning Post was 75% Western propaganda (as opposed to 100% in western outlets), but I wonder if this article is true:

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3018159/chinese-censorship-stifling-countrys-film-industry

  241. @Anatoly Karlin
    How many do you think there are in Moscow and Russia?

    As someone who actually lives here as opposed to utu etc.

    Perhaps there is a hiding factor involved, though I don't know to what extent that's feasible. They still need to go to shops etc. And Bantoids tend to be a sociable and gregarious lot, who like to peacock.

    And Bantoids tend to be a sociable and gregarious lot, who like to peacock.

    Bantoids from Africa?? No way.

    That’s a retarded New World thing.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    https://guardian.ng/life/culture-lifestyle/the-congolese-dandies-a-piece-of-history/
  242. @Beckow
    But the leftists are not in power in Germany, Merkel and her Christian Democrats are. I understand the coalition politics, still on matters of importance it is unthinkable that CDU would defer to the left. Merkel&Co. own this.

    The journalists' liberalism (often fanatical) is a bigger problem. The verbal warriors have been out of control all over the world. How did we end up turning over the civilization to the talkers?

    Hardly unthinkable.
    The Merkel-era CDU has turned into a centrist party with barely any right-wingers*.
    And centrists tend to defer to the more powerful vocal minority.

    *WerteUnion, a conservative group in the current CDU has 2k members, less than 0,5% of the 400k+ CDU members.

  243. JL says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    How many do you think there are in Moscow and Russia?

    As someone who actually lives here as opposed to utu etc.

    Perhaps there is a hiding factor involved, though I don't know to what extent that's feasible. They still need to go to shops etc. And Bantoids tend to be a sociable and gregarious lot, who like to peacock.

    I don’t know how many blacks there are here, certainly not that many. My point was less that there are more than it may seem and more that it doesn’t really matter much, tens of thousands, even, here or there, because society is structured in such a way that they are not allowed to create the kinds of problems normally associated with them. (Note, our resident WN neutral immediately picked up on this.) Personally, I adore Russians’ casual and pervasive racism, hopefully it will crystalize more into part of its anti-Western ideological stance in the same way as attitudes towards homosexuality have.

    On a side note, regarding blacks in Russia, I’ve been told that there was a mini mulatto baby boom in Moscow as a result of the 1980s Olympic games. Apparently, some of the locals girls were rather enticed by the exotic black skinned athletes in town. They’re interesting characters, this cohort, completely Russified. One of them hosted a late-night talk show about sex (Про Это) on NTV in the 00s.

    And Bantoids tend to be a sociable and gregarious lot, who like to peacock.

    Yeah, but I imagine those who aren’t able to tamp down these tendencies don’t last very long. Put another way, picture yourself as an African migrant in Moscow. How would you behave?

    • Replies: @AP

    I’ve been told that there was a mini mulatto baby boom in Moscow as a result of the 1980s Olympic games. Apparently, some of the locals girls were rather enticed by the exotic black skinned athletes in town.
     
    In the early 90s it was exotic and fashionable for young Russians, usually males, in the USA to "try" blacks (the scene in one of the Brat movies was not atypical). They always managed to find thin ones rather than ghetto ones, sometimes kids of African diplomats or whatever. The fashion passed after a year or two.
    , @Dmitry
    African students in Russia have (or had) a reputation of being badly behaved. They are not like African elites who study in Western universities. All the elite Africans go to study in the West. In USSR and nowadays Russia/Ukraine, it is likely to be only some ordinary poor/random African students.
  244. Estonians got soaked in GloboHomo. The lesson is that the media and culture ultimately matters a lot more than the nominal political party in charge.

    Culture matters, but currently the culture there is not very pro-immigrant. That Estonia has always been quite secular doesn’t negate these anti-immigrant tendencies.

    In the meanwhile, on the ground in Estonia, the nationalist party took their 7 seats in the parliament to 19 (out of 101 seats). 17.8% of the vote, which is not insignificant at all, part of coalition. Maybe this isn’t enough but it’s better than in many other places.

    “I’ll say whatever the damn I want.” (c) Martin Helme, Estonian nationalist leader

  245. For all the people confused by the “Balkan Genetics” in Ukraine, it has to do with the Great Serb Migrations where Serbs fled Turkish occupation in large waves from 1680-1750. Of course, they were fleeing Ottoman occupation before and after. Still, the 2 largest migrations were from 1680-1750. It’s only logical that a significant amount of Serbs fled to Russia besides Austria at the start of the 18th century. It explains the especially strong “Balkan genetics” in East Ukraine.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Migrations_of_the_Serbs

    • Replies: @AP
    The problem is that Balkan admixture doesn't follow the migration pattern but rather geographic proximity to the Balkans. There may be specific pockets of greater Balkan descent in eastern Ukraine attributed to the settlers, but the trend just shows gradually decreasing descent further from the Balkans and shows Balkan admixture in areas where Serbs did not settle.
  246. My bad for not posting more basic historical evidence.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavo-Serbia

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Serbia_(historical_province)

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_Hussar_Regiment

    It’s pretty clear that a significant amount of Russian in East Ukraine are really descendants of Serbs.

    • Replies: @AP
    There don't appear to have been that many settlers, not enough to account for the Balkan descent cross wide geographical area:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavo-Serbia

    The province had ethnically diverse population that included Serbs, Vlachs (Romanians), and others. In 1755, the population of Slavo-Serbia numbered 1,513 inhabitants (of both genders). In 1756, in the regiment of Jovan Šević, there were 38% Serbs, 23% Vlachs, and 22% others.[2] In 1763, the population of Slavo-Serbia numbered 3,992 male inhabitants, of whom only 378 were Serbs.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Serbia_(historical_province)

    Because of the large number of Moldavian settlers, the largest ethnic group in the province in 1757 were not Serbs, but Moldavians.[1] In 1757, the population of New Serbia numbered 5,482 inhabitants, including


    It’s pretty clear that a significant amount of Russian in East Ukraine are really descendants of Serbs.
     
    Not really (see above). And if those Serbs were rural, they were probably absorbed by the Ukrainian population as had occurred with earlier Polish settlers. Russians tended to settle in cities and came during industrialization, to work in factories.

    It would be funny if the Serb volunteers in Donbas were killing descendants of rural Serbs who had mixed with the Ukrainian neighbors though. A lot of Ukrainian militia there consists of rural Ukrainians from those eastern Ukrainian lands.

  247. Thanks for the open-thread Tolya. Do cars assembled in Russia, have a single component manufactured there? What % of components are imported, what % domestic manufacture?

    Lada is a Russified Dacia, imports components from Romania…run by Yves Caracatzanis I am not aware of Tolyati producing many components presently.

    Can you even get such data in Russia?

    According to industry news, Lada has a 20% share, Koreans most aggressive?
    https://bestsellingcarsblog.com/2019/07/russia-june-2019-ford-42-8-haval-geely-defy-4th-market-drop-in-past-5-months-3-3/

  248. I’d like someone to explain, why the comment section on Paul Craig Roberts’ posts is closed.

    A history to this? Unz policy?

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    PCR himself demanded as a precondition of letting his articles posted here at Unz. His early posts had comments, but many were critical of him, and he didn’t like it.
    , @Thorfinnsson
    Someone impersonated PCR by posting comments under his name threatening to shoot people with his .45 caliber handgun.

    Since PCR is elderly he doesn't understand that this is very funny and is actually the purpose of the internet, so he asked Ron Unz to close his comments.

    I would call PCR a contemptible coward for this, but given his content I'll give him a pass.
  249. @AmRusDebate
    I'd like someone to explain, why the comment section on Paul Craig Roberts' posts is closed.

    A history to this? Unz policy?

    PCR himself demanded as a precondition of letting his articles posted here at Unz. His early posts had comments, but many were critical of him, and he didn’t like it.

  250. AP says:
    @JL
    I don't know how many blacks there are here, certainly not that many. My point was less that there are more than it may seem and more that it doesn't really matter much, tens of thousands, even, here or there, because society is structured in such a way that they are not allowed to create the kinds of problems normally associated with them. (Note, our resident WN neutral immediately picked up on this.) Personally, I adore Russians' casual and pervasive racism, hopefully it will crystalize more into part of its anti-Western ideological stance in the same way as attitudes towards homosexuality have.

    On a side note, regarding blacks in Russia, I've been told that there was a mini mulatto baby boom in Moscow as a result of the 1980s Olympic games. Apparently, some of the locals girls were rather enticed by the exotic black skinned athletes in town. They're interesting characters, this cohort, completely Russified. One of them hosted a late-night talk show about sex (Про Это) on NTV in the 00s.

    And Bantoids tend to be a sociable and gregarious lot, who like to peacock.
     
    Yeah, but I imagine those who aren't able to tamp down these tendencies don't last very long. Put another way, picture yourself as an African migrant in Moscow. How would you behave?

    I’ve been told that there was a mini mulatto baby boom in Moscow as a result of the 1980s Olympic games. Apparently, some of the locals girls were rather enticed by the exotic black skinned athletes in town.

    In the early 90s it was exotic and fashionable for young Russians, usually males, in the USA to “try” blacks (the scene in one of the Brat movies was not atypical). They always managed to find thin ones rather than ghetto ones, sometimes kids of African diplomats or whatever. The fashion passed after a year or two.

  251. AP says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous
    For all the people confused by the "Balkan Genetics" in Ukraine, it has to do with the Great Serb Migrations where Serbs fled Turkish occupation in large waves from 1680-1750. Of course, they were fleeing Ottoman occupation before and after. Still, the 2 largest migrations were from 1680-1750. It's only logical that a significant amount of Serbs fled to Russia besides Austria at the start of the 18th century. It explains the especially strong "Balkan genetics" in East Ukraine.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Migrations_of_the_Serbs

    The problem is that Balkan admixture doesn’t follow the migration pattern but rather geographic proximity to the Balkans. There may be specific pockets of greater Balkan descent in eastern Ukraine attributed to the settlers, but the trend just shows gradually decreasing descent further from the Balkans and shows Balkan admixture in areas where Serbs did not settle.

  252. @LondonBob
    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-05-19/saxobank-cio-warns-central-banks-can-do-nothing

    TF: Earlier this year, you said that the social contract – the agreement between rulers and the ruled – is broken. It made me think of this year’s Davos meeting, which showed a leadership class terrified of slowing jobs growth and enamoured with the idea that population movements might be used to address this. Given the current unpopularity of globalisation and its effects, would you say that there are some things it is impossible for 21st century leaders and the led to agree upon? Is a social contract impossible?

    https://www.tradingfloor.com/posts/what-do-they-believe-in-davos-6971367

    Disastrous demographics mean smaller workforces in the future absent immigration.

    It’s a real problem.

    If it’s true that Merkel’s blunder was motivated by a desire to increase the size of Germany’s workforce and not just fear of the press, then you’re correct that it’s even more important for us to continue debunking blank slatism.

    Beyond simply debunking blank slatism, mindless anti-racism has to be attacked. Blank slateists who are none the less cultural conservatives also knew this invasion was going to be a disaster. After all, the blank slateist position is that “culture” is an incredibly magical and powerful force that has decisive, lifelong effects beginning in early childhood. “Syrians” suffer from a lack of universal preschool and thus are doomed to never be productive workers.

    Alternative solutions to the shrinking workforce problem are also needed. We already have the lowest cost of capital, the highest level of technology, and the highest labor costs in history. So mindlessly saying “automation” is not a solution.

    The globalists have already fixed on mobilizing women into the workforce, which is unfortunately harvesting the seed corn. We ought to propose more flex-time and part-time arrangements for women so that they can balance work with family life. It ought to be routine in industrial economies for there to be 20-30 workweeks available for mothers. I’m sure there are a number of women who would like to keep working in some way but do not want to sacrifice family life to do so.

    Reducing “retirement” is another obvious solution. Japan is doing great work in keeping the elderly in the workforce. Western countries are not as good at this, and in some age discrimination is rampant (it’s particularly bad in Sweden for instance). And much like with mothers, a lot of elderly workers would like to remain in the workforce but are no longer interested in their golden years in pulling long workweeks. Legislation and cultural propaganda should mobilize to address this.

    The flip side of old people working is getting young people working sooner. Unfortunately, this gets closer to the heart of the system’s worldview. In order to get young people and even children working, it’s necessary to demolish the myth of “education”. And that means a serious assault on the blank slate. At least in the United States there are now people within the mainstream questioning college for everyone, but making progress on this front will be really difficult. There are a lot of people who should start working full time by age 14, and there’s no way that will be accepted today. Even ordinary people are brainwashed into believing that everyone must complete high school.

    Shrinking the public sector and parasitic parts of the private sector (if done in a gradual way that doesn’t damage aggregate demand) would increase the size of the productive labor force. This would be another very difficult political project, as while it doesn’t challenge the blank state it challenges powerful political constituencies like the military-industrial complex, unionized public sector workers, teachers, firefighters, income tax preparers, etc.

    I also think we could get a lot more useful work out of people if they were actually healthy. Especially if they were healthy in middle and old age. We’d spend less on healthcare as well. This one is again extremely difficult as it requires going against lots of entrenched lobbies, getting fags to admit to being WRONG, and also forcing people to change their habits.

    The real solution is of course restoring healthy demographics, but even if they are prepared to listen to us (which they’re not) it will take time to fix demographics. In the mean time economic problems will need to be addressed by using other techniques to expand the productive workforce.

  253. @anonymous coward

    And Bantoids tend to be a sociable and gregarious lot, who like to peacock.
     
    Bantoids from Africa?? No way.

    That's a retarded New World thing.
  254. AP says:
    @TheTotallyAnonymous
    My bad for not posting more basic historical evidence.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavo-Serbia

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Serbia_(historical_province)

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_Hussar_Regiment

    It's pretty clear that a significant amount of Russian in East Ukraine are really descendants of Serbs.

    There don’t appear to have been that many settlers, not enough to account for the Balkan descent cross wide geographical area:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavo-Serbia

    The province had ethnically diverse population that included Serbs, Vlachs (Romanians), and others. In 1755, the population of Slavo-Serbia numbered 1,513 inhabitants (of both genders). In 1756, in the regiment of Jovan Šević, there were 38% Serbs, 23% Vlachs, and 22% others.[2] In 1763, the population of Slavo-Serbia numbered 3,992 male inhabitants, of whom only 378 were Serbs.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Serbia_(historical_province)

    Because of the large number of Moldavian settlers, the largest ethnic group in the province in 1757 were not Serbs, but Moldavians.[1] In 1757, the population of New Serbia numbered 5,482 inhabitants, including

    It’s pretty clear that a significant amount of Russian in East Ukraine are really descendants of Serbs.

    Not really (see above). And if those Serbs were rural, they were probably absorbed by the Ukrainian population as had occurred with earlier Polish settlers. Russians tended to settle in cities and came during industrialization, to work in factories.

    It would be funny if the Serb volunteers in Donbas were killing descendants of rural Serbs who had mixed with the Ukrainian neighbors though. A lot of Ukrainian militia there consists of rural Ukrainians from those eastern Ukrainian lands.

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
    What's so implausible about it?

    It's not like the population of the Ukraine in the 18th century was very high anyway. Plus, with high birthrates which existed in those times, that small number of people could grow into tens and even hundreds of thousands of people overtime. After all, the Ukraine was literally nothing more than a borderland between Russia, Poland, Austria and Turkey for centuries. Borderland regions subject to constant raiding, war and frequent changes in military occupations always have low population densities anyway.

    I did miswrite by over exaggerating the Serb element. Still, the point stands.

    So what if Serbs may be killing each other in East Ukraine? Many Shiptars ("Albanians") and Croats are assimilated Serbs while the overwhelming majority of "Bosnian" and Serb Muslims are Serb converts to Islam during Ottoman occupation. They've been killing each other for centuries now anyway.

    Of course, the fact that you find it funny Serbs are potentially killing each other in East Ukraine is nothing more than proof that you are a Svidomist Monkeykrainian.

  255. @AmRusDebate
    I'd like someone to explain, why the comment section on Paul Craig Roberts' posts is closed.

    A history to this? Unz policy?

    Someone impersonated PCR by posting comments under his name threatening to shoot people with his .45 caliber handgun.

    Since PCR is elderly he doesn’t understand that this is very funny and is actually the purpose of the internet, so he asked Ron Unz to close his comments.

    I would call PCR a contemptible coward for this, but given his content I’ll give him a pass.

  256. I’m in Russia now (since yesterday), and did not see any flood of Africans. Lol, nothing changed since new year, or I’m not in the relevant cities.

  257. @JL
    I don't know how many blacks there are here, certainly not that many. My point was less that there are more than it may seem and more that it doesn't really matter much, tens of thousands, even, here or there, because society is structured in such a way that they are not allowed to create the kinds of problems normally associated with them. (Note, our resident WN neutral immediately picked up on this.) Personally, I adore Russians' casual and pervasive racism, hopefully it will crystalize more into part of its anti-Western ideological stance in the same way as attitudes towards homosexuality have.

    On a side note, regarding blacks in Russia, I've been told that there was a mini mulatto baby boom in Moscow as a result of the 1980s Olympic games. Apparently, some of the locals girls were rather enticed by the exotic black skinned athletes in town. They're interesting characters, this cohort, completely Russified. One of them hosted a late-night talk show about sex (Про Это) on NTV in the 00s.

    And Bantoids tend to be a sociable and gregarious lot, who like to peacock.
     
    Yeah, but I imagine those who aren't able to tamp down these tendencies don't last very long. Put another way, picture yourself as an African migrant in Moscow. How would you behave?

    African students in Russia have (or had) a reputation of being badly behaved. They are not like African elites who study in Western universities. All the elite Africans go to study in the West. In USSR and nowadays Russia/Ukraine, it is likely to be only some ordinary poor/random African students.

    • Replies: @Gerard2

    African students in Russia have (or had) a reputation of being badly behaved. They are not like African elites who study in Western universities. All the elite Africans go to study in the West. In USSR and nowadays Russia/Ukraine, it is likely to be only some ordinary poor/random African students.
     
    Alot of Indian and Sri lankan students, mainly studying to become medical doctors, have very good reputations in Russia though - plenty of them willing to get their qualification outside of Moscow/Saint Petersburg
  258. Well I only stated Serbs because they’re the most significant Balkan group. Still, the 18th century migrations would explain the pockets of Balkan DNA in current East Ukraine.

    Since you don’t believe that 17th and 18th century migrations from the Balkans could explain the significant percentage of Balkan DNA across current Ukraine, let me give an alternative possibility.

    The whole theory of Slav migrations into the Balkans in the 7th century is complete garbage and Slavs are native to the Balkans. Basically Slavs = Illyrian. It’s more plausible that there was emigration from the Balkans instead of immigration to it. It’s much more logical for there to be Slav emigration from the Balkans to the North and East in the ancient times. After all, Moscow was only a swamp and grew into something more from a fishing village in the 13th century. Who seriously even believes that Albanians (more properly called Shiptars) are Illyrians native to the Balkans lol?

    MEANT FOR AP

  259. @Beckow

    ....neoliberalism - because they changed the meaning of the original concept liberalism to match something more like “social democrat”.
     
    There is not even remote similarity between neoliberalism and social democracy, so claiming it is odd. Social democracy largely disappeared by 1990's, what has carried the name since then are the usual centrist liberal policies with more emphasis on preserving pensions or longer vacation time.

    Looking at individual leaders is pointless - they have almost all been de facto liberals for the last 20-30 years. What they disagree on - or pretend to disagree - could fit on a small index card: abortion, pension age, how many F-15 planes to buy, congestion charges, and whether to attack Russia now or wait until it gets weaker (or Iran, N Korea, Venezuela, etc...). Western leaders are inter-changeable.

    Trump is a non-conformist who irritates the elites, but he is in his actions within the liberal mainstream. There is a lot of noise, but no change. We are also seeing a new generation of clowns among leaders and that is interesting, since historically young clowns grow up to be servants. Go figure.

    Liberalism until the early 20th century, refers to something like ideology of people like Thomas Jefferson, and this ideology was generally supported by 19th century bourgeoisie.

    What happens in the 20th century, is the meaning of the word is changed to refer to “social democrat”.

    So then this is why word “neo-liberalism” is invented (in 1970s or 1980s), actually by leftwing people. It refers to an ideology which was hated by leftwing people, which is a return of 19th century concept of liberalism.

    Neo-liberal leaders are Thatcher, Pinochet, Fujimori, and today people like Orban.

    It’s more an economic ideology. However, generally, it’s quite good in relation to immigration. For example, Thatcher has been more selective with immigration compared to the other British leaders.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    Neo-liberal leaders are Thatcher, Pinochet, Fujimori, and today people like Orban.
     
    Orbán? Where did you get this. He is big on nationalizing things. He bought back the 25% government share in the national oil company. He has opposed any further privatizations since the late 1990s. He often plans to create national champions... owned by the government. He wanted to increase competition in the cell phone provider sector by... creating a wholly government-owned cell phone provider company. Whenever he supports the creation or growth of some wholly privately owned enterprise, it's owned by one of his cronies. That's the diametric opposite of Thatcher.
  260. @AP
    There don't appear to have been that many settlers, not enough to account for the Balkan descent cross wide geographical area:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavo-Serbia

    The province had ethnically diverse population that included Serbs, Vlachs (Romanians), and others. In 1755, the population of Slavo-Serbia numbered 1,513 inhabitants (of both genders). In 1756, in the regiment of Jovan Šević, there were 38% Serbs, 23% Vlachs, and 22% others.[2] In 1763, the population of Slavo-Serbia numbered 3,992 male inhabitants, of whom only 378 were Serbs.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Serbia_(historical_province)

    Because of the large number of Moldavian settlers, the largest ethnic group in the province in 1757 were not Serbs, but Moldavians.[1] In 1757, the population of New Serbia numbered 5,482 inhabitants, including


    It’s pretty clear that a significant amount of Russian in East Ukraine are really descendants of Serbs.
     
    Not really (see above). And if those Serbs were rural, they were probably absorbed by the Ukrainian population as had occurred with earlier Polish settlers. Russians tended to settle in cities and came during industrialization, to work in factories.

    It would be funny if the Serb volunteers in Donbas were killing descendants of rural Serbs who had mixed with the Ukrainian neighbors though. A lot of Ukrainian militia there consists of rural Ukrainians from those eastern Ukrainian lands.

    What’s so implausible about it?

    It’s not like the population of the Ukraine in the 18th century was very high anyway. Plus, with high birthrates which existed in those times, that small number of people could grow into tens and even hundreds of thousands of people overtime. After all, the Ukraine was literally nothing more than a borderland between Russia, Poland, Austria and Turkey for centuries. Borderland regions subject to constant raiding, war and frequent changes in military occupations always have low population densities anyway.

    I did miswrite by over exaggerating the Serb element. Still, the point stands.

    So what if Serbs may be killing each other in East Ukraine? Many Shiptars (“Albanians”) and Croats are assimilated Serbs while the overwhelming majority of “Bosnian” and Serb Muslims are Serb converts to Islam during Ottoman occupation. They’ve been killing each other for centuries now anyway.

    Of course, the fact that you find it funny Serbs are potentially killing each other in East Ukraine is nothing more than proof that you are a Svidomist Monkeykrainian.

    • Replies: @Epigon
    Why are you such a subhuman?

    Why can’t you refrain from Serbian kneejerk uranationalist crap in this out of all places?

    Seriously, sometimes I think there should be a state effort in Serbia to police the behaviour and writings of Serbs online.
    Instead of looking through what other commenters (myself included) have posted on the subject in this thread, you burst in, repeated approximate talking points, and then when confronted with opposing opinion started throwing insults and bringing up completely unrelated Shqippos, Croats and Bosniaks into the discussion.
    , @AP

    What’s so implausible about it?

    It’s not like the population of the Ukraine in the 18th century was very high anyway.
     
    Ukraine's population was estimated at around 5.7 million in 1719.

    By the late 18th century the population had grown to around 10.5 million people.

    So ~10,000 Serb settlers were a drop in the bucket.

    Of course, the fact that you find it funny Serbs are potentially killing each other in East Ukraine
     
    It's darkly funny, like a Coen brothers movie. I wasn't celebrating it.

    Is nothing more than proof that you are a Svidomist Monkeykrainian
     
    Given your bloody history I think you shouldn't complain about such things. Killing each other and others is just what you do.
  261. @Thorfinnsson
    Russian backwardness explained

    Russian, is genetically closest to Latvians, Estonians, Lithuanians and to some extent Finns. And then in other areas of the country, to nationalities like Poles and Ukrainians.

    For example, Northern Russia – Balts almost the same all the way to Samara

    But on the other side, Poles are mapping all the way to Saratov

    Balkan people genetically, are a different race, if we believe these maps. Balkan people are related to nationalities like Romanians and Italians.

    For example, genetic map of the Romanians.

    If you talk about cultural connection. Balkans’ peoples have cultural mix, which seems to me like an intermediate point between Austria and Greece plus effects of communism.

    They’re drinking coffee and cooking with olive oil. The parts which were in Austro-Hungarian Empire, seem like the most modernized (if by which, we mean close to Viennese time).

    Cities like Belgrade and Zagreb look like they have beautiful opera houses and 19th century architecture.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    I was simply taking an opportunity to insult Balkanoid swine yet again.

    But your post strongly supports my proposal that the Balkans be turned over to Austrian administration in perpetuity.
    , @melanf

    Russian, is genetically closest to Latvians, Estonians, Lithuanians and to some extent Finns. And then in other areas of the country, to nationalities like Poles and Ukrainians.
    Balkan people genetically, are a different race
     
    Here are the differences between these groups on the phenotype:

    the North Russian
    https://d.radikal.ru/d31/1907/82/dcfaa643e662.jpg

    South Russian
    https://d.radikal.ru/d15/1907/f8/2362d6e3c352.jpg

    Balkan Slavs (Montenegrins)
    https://d.radikal.ru/d22/1907/57/d50a2c8ba6ff.jpg

  262. @TheTotallyAnonymous
    What's so implausible about it?

    It's not like the population of the Ukraine in the 18th century was very high anyway. Plus, with high birthrates which existed in those times, that small number of people could grow into tens and even hundreds of thousands of people overtime. After all, the Ukraine was literally nothing more than a borderland between Russia, Poland, Austria and Turkey for centuries. Borderland regions subject to constant raiding, war and frequent changes in military occupations always have low population densities anyway.

    I did miswrite by over exaggerating the Serb element. Still, the point stands.

    So what if Serbs may be killing each other in East Ukraine? Many Shiptars ("Albanians") and Croats are assimilated Serbs while the overwhelming majority of "Bosnian" and Serb Muslims are Serb converts to Islam during Ottoman occupation. They've been killing each other for centuries now anyway.

    Of course, the fact that you find it funny Serbs are potentially killing each other in East Ukraine is nothing more than proof that you are a Svidomist Monkeykrainian.

    Why are you such a subhuman?

    Why can’t you refrain from Serbian kneejerk uranationalist crap in this out of all places?

    Seriously, sometimes I think there should be a state effort in Serbia to police the behaviour and writings of Serbs online.
    Instead of looking through what other commenters (myself included) have posted on the subject in this thread, you burst in, repeated approximate talking points, and then when confronted with opposing opinion started throwing insults and bringing up completely unrelated Shqippos, Croats and Bosniaks into the discussion.

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
    What are you, Croat scum?
  263. @Epigon
    Why are you such a subhuman?

    Why can’t you refrain from Serbian kneejerk uranationalist crap in this out of all places?

    Seriously, sometimes I think there should be a state effort in Serbia to police the behaviour and writings of Serbs online.
    Instead of looking through what other commenters (myself included) have posted on the subject in this thread, you burst in, repeated approximate talking points, and then when confronted with opposing opinion started throwing insults and bringing up completely unrelated Shqippos, Croats and Bosniaks into the discussion.

    What are you, Croat scum?

    • Replies: @Epigon
    Q.E.D.
    Well done.
    You’ve confirmed everything what I have just written.
    Your instinctive reaction to opposition is to assume someone is a Croat/some other Serb enemy - and you throw that accusation before even looking through commenting history.
  264. @TheTotallyAnonymous
    What are you, Croat scum?

    Q.E.D.
    Well done.
    You’ve confirmed everything what I have just written.
    Your instinctive reaction to opposition is to assume someone is a Croat/some other Serb enemy – and you throw that accusation before even looking through commenting history.

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
    You literally ask me why as a Serb i'm being so "subhuman" and you expect a nice response from me or for me to not assume you're a Croat or something else?

    My reply was a fair response to you calling Serbs subhuman just like my calling AP a, "Svidomist Monkeykranian" is a fair response to his insulting comment that he thinks Serbs killing each other is funny. You have naive expectations if you expect me and other Serbs to be polite to hypocrites, cowards and effeminate cucks.

    Plus, what are you? So superior to Serbs? "Kneejerk ultranationalist crap" is what you call responses trying to give a different perspective on things? Plus, what's wrong with Serb ultranationalism anyway?
  265. @Dmitry
    Russian, is genetically closest to Latvians, Estonians, Lithuanians and to some extent Finns. And then in other areas of the country, to nationalities like Poles and Ukrainians.

    For example, Northern Russia - Balts almost the same all the way to Samara

    https://i.imgur.com/MGTn3Yn.png

    But on the other side, Poles are mapping all the way to Saratov

    https://i.imgur.com/5eIO80u.png


    Balkan people genetically, are a different race, if we believe these maps. Balkan people are related to nationalities like Romanians and Italians.

    For example, genetic map of the Romanians.

    https://i.imgur.com/kyClqEK.png


    -

    If you talk about cultural connection. Balkans' peoples have cultural mix, which seems to me like an intermediate point between Austria and Greece plus effects of communism.

    They're drinking coffee and cooking with olive oil. The parts which were in Austro-Hungarian Empire, seem like the most modernized (if by which, we mean close to Viennese time).

    Cities like Belgrade and Zagreb look like they have beautiful opera houses and 19th century architecture.

    I was simply taking an opportunity to insult Balkanoid swine yet again.

    But your post strongly supports my proposal that the Balkans be turned over to Austrian administration in perpetuity.

    • Replies: @Epigon
    You really hate the Austrians and wish them absolute ill, don’t you?

    You Swedes can really hold a grudge for long.

    , @TheTotallyAnonymous
    Lol!

    How's the multiculturalism and diversity in Malmo, Stockholm, Sweden and the West in general going huh?

    You can have fun thinking you're superior to "Balkan swine" while Mustafa, Abdul and Tyrone have their way with your women.
  266. @Thorfinnsson
    I was simply taking an opportunity to insult Balkanoid swine yet again.

    But your post strongly supports my proposal that the Balkans be turned over to Austrian administration in perpetuity.

    You really hate the Austrians and wish them absolute ill, don’t you?

    You Swedes can really hold a grudge for long.

    • LOL: Thorfinnsson
    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Good point.

    Just look at this ridiculous exchange between you and TheTotallyAnonymous.

    You're actually a fellow Serb yet he's all wound up prepared to destroyed the evil Croat menace.

    Not that Croats and Serbs actually differ in any way at all to justify their mutual animosity. Imagine if Swedes and Norwegians went at it like this.

    I can only imagine how Hapsburg civil servants and military officers shook their heads in dealing with you ridiculous hotheads.
  267. @Epigon
    Q.E.D.
    Well done.
    You’ve confirmed everything what I have just written.
    Your instinctive reaction to opposition is to assume someone is a Croat/some other Serb enemy - and you throw that accusation before even looking through commenting history.

    You literally ask me why as a Serb i’m being so “subhuman” and you expect a nice response from me or for me to not assume you’re a Croat or something else?

    My reply was a fair response to you calling Serbs subhuman just like my calling AP a, “Svidomist Monkeykranian” is a fair response to his insulting comment that he thinks Serbs killing each other is funny. You have naive expectations if you expect me and other Serbs to be polite to hypocrites, cowards and effeminate cucks.

    Plus, what are you? So superior to Serbs? “Kneejerk ultranationalist crap” is what you call responses trying to give a different perspective on things? Plus, what’s wrong with Serb ultranationalism anyway?

    • Replies: @AP
    LOL, AFAIK Epigon is a Serb.

    It figures that the one intelligent Serb commenting here is accused by a regular Serb of being a Croat.
  268. @Epigon
    You really hate the Austrians and wish them absolute ill, don’t you?

    You Swedes can really hold a grudge for long.

    Good point.

    Just look at this ridiculous exchange between you and TheTotallyAnonymous.

    You’re actually a fellow Serb yet he’s all wound up prepared to destroyed the evil Croat menace.

    Not that Croats and Serbs actually differ in any way at all to justify their mutual animosity. Imagine if Swedes and Norwegians went at it like this.

    I can only imagine how Hapsburg civil servants and military officers shook their heads in dealing with you ridiculous hotheads.

    • Replies: @Epigon

    I can only imagine how Hapsburg civil servants and military officers shook their heads in dealing with you ridiculous hotheads.
     
    It was a peculiar and interesting part of history - there were more Serbs under Habsburgs than in Serbia, and more Serbs than Slovenians or Croats under Habsburg rule.
    In addition, they weren’t serfs but of Grenzer descent - over time, nobility was granted to distinguished individuals as well. In addition, a Serb urban caste had developed in all continental towns - first cinema and local bank in Zagreb were opened by Serbs.

    Habsburg military officers would have been Serbs in that area - for example, all 3 Habsburg generals leading the 1878 invasion of Bosnia&Herzegovina were Serbs, in addition to only Slav Field Marshal in WW1.

    Habsburgs and Vienna officials played the subjects against each other - Serbs were inclined towards Emperor due to special status since 16th century, especially post-1848 so every anti-Habsburg was perceived as a Hungarian agent / Mađaron - including the Croat Kvaternik rebellion who went among Serbs in Rakovica area to start a “Croat nationalist uprising”, gathered some local idiot Serbs, were crushed by Serb Grenzer regiments and his uprising lieutenants escaped to Serbia, LOL.

    The anti-Serb resentment was fostered by some circles as early as 1903, when a converted Jew Joshua Frank started riling up Croats against Serbs, continuing in the Starčević’s wake (Croat nationalism father, his mother was a Serb, he tried applying for teacher position at Serb gymnasium in Zagreb AND at Belgrade Liceum, but was turned down, and then his anti-Serb sentiment suddenly appeared). This was exerceberated by Benjamin Kallay’s perceived favours to Serbs (his mother was born in a magyarized Serb noble family, LOL) giving them important positions and ministries.

    It is all so tiresome it bothers me a lot, because there was a golden opportunity to be done with all of them once and for all in 1919, but it was foolishly thrown away in favour of “brotherhood” and “Yugoslavism” - common state with those who’ve killed Serbs and persecuted them en masse in both world wars.

    , @Rattus Norwegius
    Gib back Jemtland and Bohuslen!
    , @AP

    Not that Croats and Serbs actually differ in any way at all to justify their mutual animosity
     
    Croats have more Slavic descent than do Serbs. They are also more Western in the real sense - Serbs spent centuries under the Turks. I think I recall on some internet flamefest Croats referring to Serbs as "Servs" because of how they served the Turks.
  269. @Thorfinnsson
    I was simply taking an opportunity to insult Balkanoid swine yet again.

    But your post strongly supports my proposal that the Balkans be turned over to Austrian administration in perpetuity.

    Lol!

    How’s the multiculturalism and diversity in Malmo, Stockholm, Sweden and the West in general going huh?

    You can have fun thinking you’re superior to “Balkan swine” while Mustafa, Abdul and Tyrone have their way with your women.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    It's "Balkanoid swine"
  270. @TheTotallyAnonymous
    Lol!

    How's the multiculturalism and diversity in Malmo, Stockholm, Sweden and the West in general going huh?

    You can have fun thinking you're superior to "Balkan swine" while Mustafa, Abdul and Tyrone have their way with your women.

    It’s “Balkanoid swine”

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
    Lol whatever, the point still stands.
  271. @Thorfinnsson
    Good point.

    Just look at this ridiculous exchange between you and TheTotallyAnonymous.

    You're actually a fellow Serb yet he's all wound up prepared to destroyed the evil Croat menace.

    Not that Croats and Serbs actually differ in any way at all to justify their mutual animosity. Imagine if Swedes and Norwegians went at it like this.

    I can only imagine how Hapsburg civil servants and military officers shook their heads in dealing with you ridiculous hotheads.

    I can only imagine how Hapsburg civil servants and military officers shook their heads in dealing with you ridiculous hotheads.

    It was a peculiar and interesting part of history – there were more Serbs under Habsburgs than in Serbia, and more Serbs than Slovenians or Croats under Habsburg rule.
    In addition, they weren’t serfs but of Grenzer descent – over time, nobility was granted to distinguished individuals as well. In addition, a Serb urban caste had developed in all continental towns – first cinema and local bank in Zagreb were opened by Serbs.

    Habsburg military officers would have been Serbs in that area – for example, all 3 Habsburg generals leading the 1878 invasion of Bosnia&Herzegovina were Serbs, in addition to only Slav Field Marshal in WW1.

    Habsburgs and Vienna officials played the subjects against each other – Serbs were inclined towards Emperor due to special status since 16th century, especially post-1848 so every anti-Habsburg was perceived as a Hungarian agent / Mađaron – including the Croat Kvaternik rebellion who went among Serbs in Rakovica area to start a “Croat nationalist uprising”, gathered some local idiot Serbs, were crushed by Serb Grenzer regiments and his uprising lieutenants escaped to Serbia, LOL.

    The anti-Serb resentment was fostered by some circles as early as 1903, when a converted Jew Joshua Frank started riling up Croats against Serbs, continuing in the Starčević’s wake (Croat nationalism father, his mother was a Serb, he tried applying for teacher position at Serb gymnasium in Zagreb AND at Belgrade Liceum, but was turned down, and then his anti-Serb sentiment suddenly appeared). This was exerceberated by Benjamin Kallay’s perceived favours to Serbs (his mother was born in a magyarized Serb noble family, LOL) giving them important positions and ministries.

    It is all so tiresome it bothers me a lot, because there was a golden opportunity to be done with all of them once and for all in 1919, but it was foolishly thrown away in favour of “brotherhood” and “Yugoslavism” – common state with those who’ve killed Serbs and persecuted them en masse in both world wars.

    • Agree: Adam
    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
    It's good to see that you are not as cucked as I thought you were at first.
    , @Beckow
    Well, 1919 was 100 years ago, and whatever mistakes were made then are irreversible. It is quite possible that if Yugoslavia was not created in 1919 and instead smaller states were formed (as in 1990's), those nations would be worse off, smaller, and in some cases maybe no longer identifiable. But probably not the Serbs.

    My humble view is that the Balkans should try to de-Balkanize; keep the food and the good looking women, but stop alternating between mutual outbursts of hatred and the perennial Western worship. West loves the mayhem - here Thorfinnsson is wrong, they only feign the disgust with the local in-fighting - Habsburgs couldn't keep their grubby hands of Balkans, they practically didn't do much else then try to expand to Balkan.

    Demographically, Europe cannot be saved without its hinterlands and people living there. It is all about numbers: Vienna's white character is largely due to the Balkan migrants. Human instinct is to live in complementary societies that are genetically and culturally close enough, if Europe abandons this instinct, it will simply go extinct.

  272. @Dmitry
    Liberalism until the early 20th century, refers to something like ideology of people like Thomas Jefferson, and this ideology was generally supported by 19th century bourgeoisie.

    What happens in the 20th century, is the meaning of the word is changed to refer to "social democrat".

    So then this is why word "neo-liberalism" is invented (in 1970s or 1980s), actually by leftwing people. It refers to an ideology which was hated by leftwing people, which is a return of 19th century concept of liberalism.

    Neo-liberal leaders are Thatcher, Pinochet, Fujimori, and today people like Orban.

    It's more an economic ideology. However, generally, it's quite good in relation to immigration. For example, Thatcher has been more selective with immigration compared to the other British leaders.

    Neo-liberal leaders are Thatcher, Pinochet, Fujimori, and today people like Orban.

    Orbán? Where did you get this. He is big on nationalizing things. He bought back the 25% government share in the national oil company. He has opposed any further privatizations since the late 1990s. He often plans to create national champions… owned by the government. He wanted to increase competition in the cell phone provider sector by… creating a wholly government-owned cell phone provider company. Whenever he supports the creation or growth of some wholly privately owned enterprise, it’s owned by one of his cronies. That’s the diametric opposite of Thatcher.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    He wanted to increase competition in the cell phone provider sector by… creating a wholly government-owned cell phone provider company.
     
    This actually fell through.
    , @Vishnugupta
    That is another side effect of the EU project for Eastern Europe. The lack of strategic industrial companies in national hands aligned with national interests. Let's face it every major industrial company usually does critical research and design work in their home country(often incentivized if not outright subsidized by the government) and mostly assembly while producing abroad.

    Hungary for instance during WW 1 had impressive companies like Ganz that built locomotives,ships and even u boats.

    Today most Eastern European industry seems to be subsidiaries of West European companies. I don't see this changing in the foreseeable future.
    , @Dmitry
    You're trying to make me dislike Orban?

    Look at the beautiful low corporation tax in Hungary though:
    https://home.kpmg/xx/en/home/services/tax/tax-tools-and-resources/tax-rates-online/corporate-tax-rates-table.html

    He often plans to create national champions… owned by the government.
     
    Ok, this sounds funny, especially for such a small country - what are Hungarian natural monopolies where this would be a good idea?

    In Russia, there were some things which were actually intelligently privatized in the 1990s, which still results in benefits today - for example, very competitive telecommunication sector today.
  273. @Thorfinnsson
    It's "Balkanoid swine"

    Lol whatever, the point still stands.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    As someone who's commenting on this site, obviously I don't approve of "diversity".

    As for the Balkans my true view is that you're a rougher part of the European family. Embarrassing at times, but still part of the family. And roughness has its virtues at times.

    The ridiculous fights between various completely indistinguishable Balkan entities are comical and absurd. They're completely obsolete given the ongoing invasion and domination of the West, including Balkan states, by globohomo. There's less "diversity" in the Balkans only owing to relative poverty.

  274. @Epigon

    I can only imagine how Hapsburg civil servants and military officers shook their heads in dealing with you ridiculous hotheads.
     
    It was a peculiar and interesting part of history - there were more Serbs under Habsburgs than in Serbia, and more Serbs than Slovenians or Croats under Habsburg rule.
    In addition, they weren’t serfs but of Grenzer descent - over time, nobility was granted to distinguished individuals as well. In addition, a Serb urban caste had developed in all continental towns - first cinema and local bank in Zagreb were opened by Serbs.

    Habsburg military officers would have been Serbs in that area - for example, all 3 Habsburg generals leading the 1878 invasion of Bosnia&Herzegovina were Serbs, in addition to only Slav Field Marshal in WW1.

    Habsburgs and Vienna officials played the subjects against each other - Serbs were inclined towards Emperor due to special status since 16th century, especially post-1848 so every anti-Habsburg was perceived as a Hungarian agent / Mađaron - including the Croat Kvaternik rebellion who went among Serbs in Rakovica area to start a “Croat nationalist uprising”, gathered some local idiot Serbs, were crushed by Serb Grenzer regiments and his uprising lieutenants escaped to Serbia, LOL.

    The anti-Serb resentment was fostered by some circles as early as 1903, when a converted Jew Joshua Frank started riling up Croats against Serbs, continuing in the Starčević’s wake (Croat nationalism father, his mother was a Serb, he tried applying for teacher position at Serb gymnasium in Zagreb AND at Belgrade Liceum, but was turned down, and then his anti-Serb sentiment suddenly appeared). This was exerceberated by Benjamin Kallay’s perceived favours to Serbs (his mother was born in a magyarized Serb noble family, LOL) giving them important positions and ministries.

    It is all so tiresome it bothers me a lot, because there was a golden opportunity to be done with all of them once and for all in 1919, but it was foolishly thrown away in favour of “brotherhood” and “Yugoslavism” - common state with those who’ve killed Serbs and persecuted them en masse in both world wars.

    It’s good to see that you are not as cucked as I thought you were at first.

  275. @TheTotallyAnonymous
    Lol whatever, the point still stands.

    As someone who’s commenting on this site, obviously I don’t approve of “diversity”.

    As for the Balkans my true view is that you’re a rougher part of the European family. Embarrassing at times, but still part of the family. And roughness has its virtues at times.

    The ridiculous fights between various completely indistinguishable Balkan entities are comical and absurd. They’re completely obsolete given the ongoing invasion and domination of the West, including Balkan states, by globohomo. There’s less “diversity” in the Balkans only owing to relative poverty.

    • Replies: @TheTotallyAnonymous
    That's actually a fair-enough perspective for the most part.

    I would add that the reason for the mutual hatreds is competing territorial claims plus a brutal and bloody history of mass murder and forced expulsion (which Serbs have actually been the biggest victims of, and aren't actually anywhere near as much at fault for compared to their neighbours, despite powerful media propaganda painting Serbs as the ultimate villains).

    I would also add that the Muslims in the Balkans are basically a part of "Team Diversity" and servants of a religion completely alien to Europe as they are a leftover of the Turkish invasions. Being hostile to them is completely reasonable and logical.

    For my part, I genuinely think the diversity and "cultural enrichment" going on in the West right now is disastrous and tragic. It's not fair to wish death and devastation by diversity on anyone (besides maybe a few certain groups). I sincerely wish you guys all the best with beating back diversity but that's on you, not me, of course. As a piece of good news, it seems like Salvini and the Italians gave managed to do just that.

    https://www.euronews.com/2019/07/10/italy-s-matteo-salvini-live-broadcasts-closure-of-one-of-europe-s-largest-migrant-centres
    , @AP

    As for the Balkans my true view is that you’re a rougher part of the European family. Embarrassing at times, but still part of the family. And roughness has its virtues at times.
     
    Balkanoids are to Europeans, what Laotians and Rohinga are to Koreans or Japanese.
  276. @reiner Tor

    Neo-liberal leaders are Thatcher, Pinochet, Fujimori, and today people like Orban.
     
    Orbán? Where did you get this. He is big on nationalizing things. He bought back the 25% government share in the national oil company. He has opposed any further privatizations since the late 1990s. He often plans to create national champions... owned by the government. He wanted to increase competition in the cell phone provider sector by... creating a wholly government-owned cell phone provider company. Whenever he supports the creation or growth of some wholly privately owned enterprise, it's owned by one of his cronies. That's the diametric opposite of Thatcher.

    He wanted to increase competition in the cell phone provider sector by… creating a wholly government-owned cell phone provider company.

    This actually fell through.

  277. @reiner Tor

    Neo-liberal leaders are Thatcher, Pinochet, Fujimori, and today people like Orban.
     
    Orbán? Where did you get this. He is big on nationalizing things. He bought back the 25% government share in the national oil company. He has opposed any further privatizations since the late 1990s. He often plans to create national champions... owned by the government. He wanted to increase competition in the cell phone provider sector by... creating a wholly government-owned cell phone provider company. Whenever he supports the creation or growth of some wholly privately owned enterprise, it's owned by one of his cronies. That's the diametric opposite of Thatcher.

    That is another side effect of the EU project for Eastern Europe. The lack of strategic industrial companies in national hands aligned with national interests. Let’s face it every major industrial company usually does critical research and design work in their home country(often incentivized if not outright subsidized by the government) and mostly assembly while producing abroad.

    Hungary for instance during WW 1 had impressive companies like Ganz that built locomotives,ships and even u boats.

    Today most Eastern European industry seems to be subsidiaries of West European companies. I don’t see this changing in the foreseeable future.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    every major industrial company usually does critical research and design work in their home country
     
    German and other companies often leverage lower Hungarian engineer wages by outsourcing design work here as well. It's very likely that the Volkswagen chip which was used to cheat on the diesel emissions tests was designed in Hungary. Bosch has a huge R&D facility in Budapest.

    https://hipa.hu/bosch-expands-its-second-largest-european-development-centre

    But it's not truly independent R&D, and its profits accrue to foreigners.

    , @Dmitry
    It's sad what happened to trams of Budapest.

    The Ganz trams looks really stylish.

    https://i.imgur.com/Dlbbqe4.jpg

    It seems, they replace them with these ugly and boring Siemen's tram designs, which are built in Spain. They just add some yellow paint (not even the correct tone it seems) to remember the attractive original trams.

    https://i.imgur.com/puKM1Ew.jpg

  278. @Vishnugupta
    That is another side effect of the EU project for Eastern Europe. The lack of strategic industrial companies in national hands aligned with national interests. Let's face it every major industrial company usually does critical research and design work in their home country(often incentivized if not outright subsidized by the government) and mostly assembly while producing abroad.

    Hungary for instance during WW 1 had impressive companies like Ganz that built locomotives,ships and even u boats.

    Today most Eastern European industry seems to be subsidiaries of West European companies. I don't see this changing in the foreseeable future.

    every major industrial company usually does critical research and design work in their home country

    German and other companies often leverage lower Hungarian engineer wages by outsourcing design work here as well. It’s very likely that the Volkswagen chip which was used to cheat on the diesel emissions tests was designed in Hungary. Bosch has a huge R&D facility in Budapest.

    https://hipa.hu/bosch-expands-its-second-largest-european-development-centre

    But it’s not truly independent R&D, and its profits accrue to foreigners.

  279. @Epigon

    I can only imagine how Hapsburg civil servants and military officers shook their heads in dealing with you ridiculous hotheads.
     
    It was a peculiar and interesting part of history - there were more Serbs under Habsburgs than in Serbia, and more Serbs than Slovenians or Croats under Habsburg rule.
    In addition, they weren’t serfs but of Grenzer descent - over time, nobility was granted to distinguished individuals as well. In addition, a Serb urban caste had developed in all continental towns - first cinema and local bank in Zagreb were opened by Serbs.

    Habsburg military officers would have been Serbs in that area - for example, all 3 Habsburg generals leading the 1878 invasion of Bosnia&Herzegovina were Serbs, in addition to only Slav Field Marshal in WW1.

    Habsburgs and Vienna officials played the subjects against each other - Serbs were inclined towards Emperor due to special status since 16th century, especially post-1848 so every anti-Habsburg was perceived as a Hungarian agent / Mađaron - including the Croat Kvaternik rebellion who went among Serbs in Rakovica area to start a “Croat nationalist uprising”, gathered some local idiot Serbs, were crushed by Serb Grenzer regiments and his uprising lieutenants escaped to Serbia, LOL.

    The anti-Serb resentment was fostered by some circles as early as 1903, when a converted Jew Joshua Frank started riling up Croats against Serbs, continuing in the Starčević’s wake (Croat nationalism father, his mother was a Serb, he tried applying for teacher position at Serb gy