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The last Open Thread was a while ago, so there’s quite a backlog.

As I said at the beginning of the year, I am thinking of doing more video for my YouTube channel, which is currently largely dormant. If I go ahead with this, it will mostly be in Russian.

I don’t intend to do any serious preparation or editing. After all, I already have this blog, an academic career, and some other projects to take care of. Plan is to start off my ranting into a camera for half an hour 1-2 times a week.

Inspiration: Edward Dutton, RAMZPAUL.

Anyhow, let me know of any ideas or tips you might have on the art of vlogging.

***

@ak

More notable posts since the last Open Thread in case you missed any of them.

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  1. This is the current Open Thread, where anything goes – within reason.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

  2. Apparently, Curtis Yarvin – better known as Moldbug, “founder” of Neo-Reaction – is apparently #YangGang according to a report from someone who knows him.

    Unlikely. But more importantly, Moldbug hasn’t been relevant in years. Why would he support plain old socialism now?

    Separately, who other than AK thinks Andrew Yang can possibly finish even in the Top 3 of the Dem race (let alone win the nomination, let alone win the general election against Trump)?

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    UBI is not socialism, let alone "plain old" socialism.

    I no longer think Yang will finish in the Top Three (though I will be happy to be pleasantly surprised). Yang has rejected /pol/'s memetic offerings, swapping out the cool Yang Yacht aesthetic for his gay "Math" hat instead. His Tweets are either too Big Brained to excite the masses, too edgy to mark him out as a safe bland choice like Kamala, not edgy enough to draw the mass attention and outrage that Trump so masterfully provokes. Sad to say but he's too much of a Chinese robot to make it in US politics.
    , @Alexander Turok
    " But more importantly, Moldbug hasn’t been relevant in years. Why would he support plain old socialism now?"

    Maybe the lack of relevance led him to question his ideology? It was always too elitist and LARPy for me.

    "Separately, who other than AK thinks Andrew Yang can possibly finish even in the Top 3 of the Dem race (let alone win the nomination, let alone win the general election against Trump)?"

    Of course he can. The guy leading the Dem polls generates little enthusiasm from any of his supporters and will almost certainly make more "gaffes," people in their 70s aren't getting smarter. This is the exact moment when an "outsider" has a chance to swoop in. Getting the nomination will be the hard part, beating Trump will be no trouble at all.
  3. @Thomm
    Apparently, Curtis Yarvin – better known as Moldbug, “founder” of Neo-Reaction – is apparently #YangGang according to a report from someone who knows him.

    Unlikely. But more importantly, Moldbug hasn't been relevant in years. Why would he support plain old socialism now?

    Separately, who other than AK thinks Andrew Yang can possibly finish even in the Top 3 of the Dem race (let alone win the nomination, let alone win the general election against Trump)?

    UBI is not socialism, let alone “plain old” socialism.

    I no longer think Yang will finish in the Top Three (though I will be happy to be pleasantly surprised). Yang has rejected /pol/’s memetic offerings, swapping out the cool Yang Yacht aesthetic for his gay “Math” hat instead. His Tweets are either too Big Brained to excite the masses, too edgy to mark him out as a safe bland choice like Kamala, not edgy enough to draw the mass attention and outrage that Trump so masterfully provokes. Sad to say but he’s too much of a Chinese robot to make it in US politics.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Only a minority of NEETs from the /pol/ crowd seem to be genuinely into Yang. A lot of the support for Yang from /pol/ was ironic and trolling. Most of the /pol/ crowd is into racialist and nationalist politics, so Yang's appeal there as a non-white is ultimately quite limited.

    More normie conservatives and Republicans have a knee-jerk hostile attitude towards UBI and regard it as "socialism", so Yang can't really draw much support from those quarters.

    On the Left, quite a few Bernie supporters and socialists have a hostile view of UBI and regard it as a capitalist Trojan Horse whose aim is to reduce or eliminate the welfare state and the socialized economy. While the rest of the Democratic base tends to be those who largely benefit from current social programs, and thus won't get very enthused about something like UBI.

    Ultimately, there's not much of a base for Yang and the UBI to succeed. America is simply too large and diverse, and thus politics is very spiteful and zero-sum. When Yang was getting some press a couple months, many liberals were reflexively wary of him because of Yang's popularity among some quarters of the alt-right. At the same time, he doesn't appeal to much of the right because he's non-white. And among many leftists, he's a capitalist and UBI is bad for socialism, while for regular conservatives, UBI is socialism.
    , @Mr. XYZ
    He could run as an independent in the general election in 2020 if he'll lose the Democratic primaries, no? That should get him and his ideas some additional attention.
  4. UBI is not socialism, let alone “plain old” socialism.

    His method of paying for it – higher taxation on the wealthy – is.

    There is some marginal benefit to consolidating all existing entitlement programs into a single universal payout, and save the 10-20% that is wasted across all departments and means-testing, but Yang absolutely wants to increase taxes collected in relation to GDP.

    • Replies: @Abelard Lindsey
    This makes me think that Yang is not as smart as he thinks he is. He has forgotten or not known what a wise man once said. Societies get more of what they subsidize and less of what they tax.
  5. @Thomm
    Apparently, Curtis Yarvin – better known as Moldbug, “founder” of Neo-Reaction – is apparently #YangGang according to a report from someone who knows him.

    Unlikely. But more importantly, Moldbug hasn't been relevant in years. Why would he support plain old socialism now?

    Separately, who other than AK thinks Andrew Yang can possibly finish even in the Top 3 of the Dem race (let alone win the nomination, let alone win the general election against Trump)?

    ” But more importantly, Moldbug hasn’t been relevant in years. Why would he support plain old socialism now?”

    Maybe the lack of relevance led him to question his ideology? It was always too elitist and LARPy for me.

    “Separately, who other than AK thinks Andrew Yang can possibly finish even in the Top 3 of the Dem race (let alone win the nomination, let alone win the general election against Trump)?”

    Of course he can. The guy leading the Dem polls generates little enthusiasm from any of his supporters and will almost certainly make more “gaffes,” people in their 70s aren’t getting smarter. This is the exact moment when an “outsider” has a chance to swoop in. Getting the nomination will be the hard part, beating Trump will be no trouble at all.

    • Replies: @Mikhail

    Maybe the lack of relevance led him to question his ideology? It was always too elitist and LARPy for me.

    “Separately, who other than AK thinks Andrew Yang can possibly finish even in the Top 3 of the Dem race (let alone win the nomination, let alone win the general election against Trump)?”
     
    Likewise with the prediction that Kamala Harris will get the Democratic presidential nomination. At best, she might get the VP slot.
  6. Anonymous[339] • Disclaimer says:

    From what I read of Yang’s website, he is some kind of technocratic futurist with a platform that sounds like it was constructed by the readership of Slate Star Codex? Good luck. We like simple slogans (“Build the wall”) and simple philosopgies (“Government bad!” “Environment good!”). Yang is nothing like Trump and Trump did not get elected because 4chan supported him (if anything he got elected in spite of it).

    Somebody like Yang has 0 chance of making any sort of splash in American politics. He should try his luck in Finland or some place like that.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    ... he is some kind of technocratic futurist with a platform that sounds like it was constructed by the readership of Slate Star Codex? Good luck.
     
    That's a good and very accurate way of putting it. Having rotated in that crowd myself when I was in the US, I have a few second-order connections (know people who know him) to Yang myself. And I wasn't even really deep into that community, so I suspect the connections there would be much denser still.

    You can read my review of his book here: https://www.unz.com/akarlin/review-yang-war-on-normal-people/
    , @anonymous

    Yang is nothing like Trump and Trump did not get elected because 4chan supported him (if anything he got elected in spite of it).
     
    Well said, I am also tired of the 4chan worship. Chan memes work on specific limited audience of neets, nazis and nihilists who are sitting all day at their computers. To normies, they are revolting, incomprehensible or both.
    Donald won because of 100,000 votes in few critical swing states, not because good people of Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania savor green frog aesthetic, but because Hillary was too lazy to campaign there. And, in the end, it did not mattered at all.
    , @Kent Nationalist

    that sounds like it was constructed by the readership of Slate Star Codex
     
    It doesn't have enough 'polyamory' for that
    , @Anonymous
    Yang may not win this year, but he isn't going anywhere either.

    He is too right about too many things, even if he does not go anywhere in 2020 he will be primed to win the next election cycle.
  7. @Anonymous
    From what I read of Yang's website, he is some kind of technocratic futurist with a platform that sounds like it was constructed by the readership of Slate Star Codex? Good luck. We like simple slogans ("Build the wall") and simple philosopgies ("Government bad!" "Environment good!"). Yang is nothing like Trump and Trump did not get elected because 4chan supported him (if anything he got elected in spite of it).

    Somebody like Yang has 0 chance of making any sort of splash in American politics. He should try his luck in Finland or some place like that.

    … he is some kind of technocratic futurist with a platform that sounds like it was constructed by the readership of Slate Star Codex? Good luck.

    That’s a good and very accurate way of putting it. Having rotated in that crowd myself when I was in the US, I have a few second-order connections (know people who know him) to Yang myself. And I wasn’t even really deep into that community, so I suspect the connections there would be much denser still.

    You can read my review of his book here: https://www.unz.com/akarlin/review-yang-war-on-normal-people/

    • Agree: Mr. XYZ
  8. Getting the nomination will be the hard part,

    Of course. The primary debates are starting friggin’ 16+ months before the actual election.

    beating Trump will be no trouble at all.

    I disagree. Trump is doing fine. Outside of the most fringe Nationalist-Leftists, no one who liked Trump in late 2016 dislikes him now, but many doubters have been won over. He might had 5-8 points to his previous results with the black, Hispanic, and Asian vote. Democrats are terrified of even a mild ‘Blexit’ for a reason.

    “It is the Economy, stupid.” Even if a recession starts now, people realize that it is in spite of Trump, not because of him.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Trump was running against a uniquely unpopular and uncharismatic candidate in 2016.

    If he runs against somebody like Biden or Sanders then he is toast. Both of them are leading by 10% points in Pennsylvania ffs!
    , @Alexander Turok
    Plenty of ordinary people have become disappointed by Trump:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/06/02/laid-off-gm-workers-in-ohio-fed-up-with-ruling-class-nobody-has-our-backs/

    "Even if a recession starts now, people realize that it is in spite of Trump, not because of him."

    No. The average person has little understanding of how the economy works and overestimates the power of the President. He's not going to blame it on the Federal Reserve because he doesn't know what the Federal Reserve is. The President will be blamed, particularly if he spent the past few years bragging about how well the economy was doing. At least Obama could claim it was a recession he inherited.
  9. JRL Promoted BS

    [MORE]

    Re: https://russialist.org/russia-ukraine-johnsons-russia-list-table-of-contents-links-jrl-2019-92-monday-3-june-2019/https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-polytics/2711860-zelenskys-election-may-topple-putins-regime-in-russia-british-journalist.html

    Non-JRL promoted, is this rebuttal to the put mildly dubious claim that the recent Ukrainian presidential election is a threat to the current Russian government:

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2019/04/24/gauging-ukraine-with-russia-and-belarus/

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/25042019-gauging-ukraine-with-russia-and-belarus-oped/

    On the subject of JRL, someone commenting as David Johnson suggestively lauded John Helmer at this thread:

    https://irrussianality.wordpress.com/2019/05/20/book-review-john-helmer/#comments

    The blog post to that thread wasn’t carried by JRL, even though that venue qualifies as being in a JRL court appointed Russia friendly category.

    Providing top quality analysis on a range of key foreign policy, historical, media and sports issues.

    The coverage improves by bringing in quality contributors, who by and large haven’t appeared at the more high profile of venues. Political biases and cronyism stand in the way of a fairer/improved situation.

    Homerun hitters can’t hit homeruns sitting on the bench. As Dizzy Dean is quoted as saying: “It aint bragging if you can back it up.”

  10. @Thomm

    Getting the nomination will be the hard part,
     
    Of course. The primary debates are starting friggin' 16+ months before the actual election.

    beating Trump will be no trouble at all.
     

     I disagree. Trump is doing fine. Outside of the most fringe Nationalist-Leftists, no one who liked Trump in late 2016 dislikes him now, but many doubters have been won over. He might had 5-8 points to his previous results with the black, Hispanic, and Asian vote. Democrats are terrified of even a mild 'Blexit' for a reason.

    "It is the Economy, stupid." Even if a recession starts now, people realize that it is in spite of Trump, not because of him.

    Trump was running against a uniquely unpopular and uncharismatic candidate in 2016.

    If he runs against somebody like Biden or Sanders then he is toast. Both of them are leading by 10% points in Pennsylvania ffs!

    • Replies: @Thomm

    If he runs against somebody like Biden or Sanders then he is toast. Both of them are leading by 10% points in Pennsylvania ffs!
     
    I wouldn't worry about that. It is very hard for an incumbent to be unseated barring a third-party situation like 1992, particularly if the economy was strong for most or all of his term.

    Both of the individuals you consider 'strong' are over age 75, and truly have no good ideas. If Biden was any good, he could have run and done well long before 2020.


    Trump was running against a uniquely unpopular and uncharismatic candidate in 2016.
     
    Who was also part of the most powerful political machine of them all, AND had millions of female voters who wanted the first female (Democrat) President ever badly enough to do more for her campaign than they would have done for any male Democrat. Many women registered to vote for the first time just for her.

    I do agree that in 2024, a female Democrat President-elect is virtually a certainty.

    , @Mr. XYZ
    To be fair, though, in 1988, Dukakis led in the polls by double-digits right up into the summer of 1988 but then ended up losing to Bush Sr. by several percentage in the popular vote and by a landslide in the electoral college. For that matter, Jimmy Carter had a 33 point lead over Ford early on in 1976 but only ended up winning by a measly 2%.
    , @RadicalCenter
    AK, good point about the unique weakness of Hillary as a candidate in 2016.

    But I wouldn’t be too sure that Biden or Sanders will thump Trump. Among other things, by picking a very old nominee, the Dems remove trump’s advanced age as a potential negative factor.

    Probably a MUCH more important pro-Trump consequence of picking Biden or sanders: Africans simply will not turn out to vote for a white man (they’d consider sanders white) the way they turned out for Obama in 2008 and 2012. (This assumes that Biden or sanders wouldn’t pick an African veep “running mate.”).

    Swing states like North Carolina, Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania could go trump’s way again, however narrowly, with lower African turnout in Tallahassee, Charlotte NC, Cleveland and Columbus and Cincinnati OH, Philadelphia PA, and the like.

    God help the GOP when they inevitably face a Dem ticket consisting of a white moderate-pretending Mexican presidential nominee and an African veep nominee. Vice-President Stacy Abrams 2024 and President Stacy Abrams 2028. Save money for that foreign residency application and airfare....
  11. Media Quick Takes

    An example of Al Jazeera’s bias:

    https://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/insidestory/2019/05/whats-caused-flare-serbia-kosovo-190529192826179.html

    At least on the subject of Crimea, they had Mark Sleboda (who has been noticeably missing of late on RT). The difference relates to Russia’s big power status versus a geopolitically less significant Serbia, which tragically has its share of lackeys. Notwithstanding, there’re numerous pro-Serb voices including Srdja Trifkovic, Nebojsa Malaic and James Jatras

    An example of RT’s eclectic side:

    https://www.rt.com/shows/worlds-apart-oksana-boyko/460287-standup-politics-ukraine-ponomarev/

    Be hard pressed to find pro-Russian views getting similar time at venues like Euromaidan Press, StopFake and the now defunct Ukraine Today.

  12. @Alexander Turok
    " But more importantly, Moldbug hasn’t been relevant in years. Why would he support plain old socialism now?"

    Maybe the lack of relevance led him to question his ideology? It was always too elitist and LARPy for me.

    "Separately, who other than AK thinks Andrew Yang can possibly finish even in the Top 3 of the Dem race (let alone win the nomination, let alone win the general election against Trump)?"

    Of course he can. The guy leading the Dem polls generates little enthusiasm from any of his supporters and will almost certainly make more "gaffes," people in their 70s aren't getting smarter. This is the exact moment when an "outsider" has a chance to swoop in. Getting the nomination will be the hard part, beating Trump will be no trouble at all.

    Maybe the lack of relevance led him to question his ideology? It was always too elitist and LARPy for me.

    “Separately, who other than AK thinks Andrew Yang can possibly finish even in the Top 3 of the Dem race (let alone win the nomination, let alone win the general election against Trump)?”

    Likewise with the prediction that Kamala Harris will get the Democratic presidential nomination. At best, she might get the VP slot.

  13. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    UBI is not socialism, let alone "plain old" socialism.

    I no longer think Yang will finish in the Top Three (though I will be happy to be pleasantly surprised). Yang has rejected /pol/'s memetic offerings, swapping out the cool Yang Yacht aesthetic for his gay "Math" hat instead. His Tweets are either too Big Brained to excite the masses, too edgy to mark him out as a safe bland choice like Kamala, not edgy enough to draw the mass attention and outrage that Trump so masterfully provokes. Sad to say but he's too much of a Chinese robot to make it in US politics.

    Only a minority of NEETs from the /pol/ crowd seem to be genuinely into Yang. A lot of the support for Yang from /pol/ was ironic and trolling. Most of the /pol/ crowd is into racialist and nationalist politics, so Yang’s appeal there as a non-white is ultimately quite limited.

    More normie conservatives and Republicans have a knee-jerk hostile attitude towards UBI and regard it as “socialism”, so Yang can’t really draw much support from those quarters.

    On the Left, quite a few Bernie supporters and socialists have a hostile view of UBI and regard it as a capitalist Trojan Horse whose aim is to reduce or eliminate the welfare state and the socialized economy. While the rest of the Democratic base tends to be those who largely benefit from current social programs, and thus won’t get very enthused about something like UBI.

    Ultimately, there’s not much of a base for Yang and the UBI to succeed. America is simply too large and diverse, and thus politics is very spiteful and zero-sum. When Yang was getting some press a couple months, many liberals were reflexively wary of him because of Yang’s popularity among some quarters of the alt-right. At the same time, he doesn’t appeal to much of the right because he’s non-white. And among many leftists, he’s a capitalist and UBI is bad for socialism, while for regular conservatives, UBI is socialism.

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    I thought that the right likes "model minority" Asians? Also, didn't some alt-right guys previously date Asian women?
  14. Brookings Panel on Russia & China

    Re: https://www.c-span.org/video/?461307-1/us-russia-china-relations

    Michael O’Hanlon is much less diplomatic when compared to his RT CrossTalk appearances. Thomas Ehrhard engages in some neocon/neolib, wishful thinking, hate mongering, by stating that Russia and China have thousands of years of enmity towards each other, in a way nullifying their being able to forge a long term friendly relationship.

    Where’s the thousands of years as claimed?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Sino-Russian_relations

    As for the last four hundred years, China and Russia show up and down trends. Do they’ve a more difficult past with each other than France-Germany, Britain-France, Britain-Germany, France-Britain – never minding Britain’s two wars against America and the former’s support for southern secessionists during the American Civil War.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    Sino-Russian relations are ancient despite some people on reddit and wiki thinking that they are not!

    Russia is located at the northern end of the world. During the Han Empire [same time as the Romans in Europe], the ancestors of the Russians were the tribes of Jiankun and Dingling [these were actually Kyrgyz people, not Russians]. During the Tang Empire [same time as the Carolingians], the Russians were the tribes of Xiajiasi and Guligan [still Kyrgyz]. During the Yuan Empire [when the Mongols ruled China], they were called the Aluosi and the Jilijisi [the Aluosi are actually Russians conquered by the Mongols, the Jilijisi are still Kyrgyz]. During the three hundred years of Ming rule [from 1368 to 1644] they lost contact with China. During the Qing Empire, in the reign of the Kangxi emperor, they finally paid tribute. They have eight provinces, which they call sike [maybe a Russian can tell me what this is?], and each sike is divided into smaller sike.
     
    https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments/7wrgvs/18thcentury_chinese_drawing_of_a_swiss_mercenary/du2mb2c/
    Original Chinese source: Huang Qing Zhigong Tu (18th century)
  15. anonymous[113] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    From what I read of Yang's website, he is some kind of technocratic futurist with a platform that sounds like it was constructed by the readership of Slate Star Codex? Good luck. We like simple slogans ("Build the wall") and simple philosopgies ("Government bad!" "Environment good!"). Yang is nothing like Trump and Trump did not get elected because 4chan supported him (if anything he got elected in spite of it).

    Somebody like Yang has 0 chance of making any sort of splash in American politics. He should try his luck in Finland or some place like that.

    Yang is nothing like Trump and Trump did not get elected because 4chan supported him (if anything he got elected in spite of it).

    Well said, I am also tired of the 4chan worship. Chan memes work on specific limited audience of neets, nazis and nihilists who are sitting all day at their computers. To normies, they are revolting, incomprehensible or both.
    Donald won because of 100,000 votes in few critical swing states, not because good people of Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania savor green frog aesthetic, but because Hillary was too lazy to campaign there. And, in the end, it did not mattered at all.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    4chan and the alt-right neutralized the media, who already had all R candidates but one dancing to their tune. I think Trump would have been just mocked and ignored without the online support, pushback and memeing. They/we also subsequently made Hillary look ridiculous. (My favorite was the video of the guy shouting 'Pepe' in the middle of her speech, but getting ragdolled into a black SUV by her laconic guards probably also had its effect. Or the Weiner-Huma email comedy, alas unresolved.)

    I don't think the tech-media faction will permit anything like that to happen in coming elections though. They are gradually killing off the alternate online media, and might just be waiting to silence the remaining refuges until when the election gets near enough.

    Since presidents usually get reelected and the Dem field seems pretty uninspiring, I'd still bet on Trump winning in 2020.

    After that, it's anybody's guess whether there will be more R presidents since we're then getting into the timeframe when Florida and Texas could turn blue at any time. Was it in 2038 that whites will no longer be a majority? Should be over by then. Including 2020, that's five more presidential elections.

    , @Athletic and Whitesplosive
    Of course he didn't get elected due solely to the chans, but I think it's going too far to completely discount them (along with the contribution of other somewhat fringe websites). You may find them juvenile (and you may often be right), but funny memes really do have influence on people, not least of which is the ability to generate enthusiasm and drive up turnout for your own side. You can even see how the best memes leak into common use on more "normie" sites. Things like "cuck" and "snowflake" started as fringe right-wing memes but are now common parlance on any site where the left and right clash heads.

    There's a reason propaganda exists, and having a reasonably large pool of semi-talented people willing to make funny image macros in support of you and spam them on more mainstream sites for free seems to me like a non negligible asset.
    , @Anonymous
    Agreed. 4chan was a lot more mainstream just a few years ago, but now it has been pretty radicalized to the point that only total autists who have dropped out of society function there.
  16. @Anatoly Karlin
    Trump was running against a uniquely unpopular and uncharismatic candidate in 2016.

    If he runs against somebody like Biden or Sanders then he is toast. Both of them are leading by 10% points in Pennsylvania ffs!

    If he runs against somebody like Biden or Sanders then he is toast. Both of them are leading by 10% points in Pennsylvania ffs!

    I wouldn’t worry about that. It is very hard for an incumbent to be unseated barring a third-party situation like 1992, particularly if the economy was strong for most or all of his term.

    Both of the individuals you consider ‘strong’ are over age 75, and truly have no good ideas. If Biden was any good, he could have run and done well long before 2020.

    Trump was running against a uniquely unpopular and uncharismatic candidate in 2016.

    Who was also part of the most powerful political machine of them all, AND had millions of female voters who wanted the first female (Democrat) President ever badly enough to do more for her campaign than they would have done for any male Democrat. Many women registered to vote for the first time just for her.

    I do agree that in 2024, a female Democrat President-elect is virtually a certainty.

    • Replies: @ImmortalRationalist

    Who was also part of the most powerful political machine of them all, AND had millions of female voters who wanted the first female (Democrat) President ever badly enough to do more for her campaign than they would have done for any male Democrat. Many women registered to vote for the first time just for her.
     
    https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1478780146447.png

    Yet 53% of white women voted for Trump.
    , @ImmortalRationalist
    The only way I see Trump winning in 2020 is a scenario where the Dems can't help but shoot themselves in the foot again and nominate an unpopular candidate, and Trump boomers his way to victory. I would guesstimate that Trump has a ~45% chance of getting reelected.
  17. @Thomm

    If he runs against somebody like Biden or Sanders then he is toast. Both of them are leading by 10% points in Pennsylvania ffs!
     
    I wouldn't worry about that. It is very hard for an incumbent to be unseated barring a third-party situation like 1992, particularly if the economy was strong for most or all of his term.

    Both of the individuals you consider 'strong' are over age 75, and truly have no good ideas. If Biden was any good, he could have run and done well long before 2020.


    Trump was running against a uniquely unpopular and uncharismatic candidate in 2016.
     
    Who was also part of the most powerful political machine of them all, AND had millions of female voters who wanted the first female (Democrat) President ever badly enough to do more for her campaign than they would have done for any male Democrat. Many women registered to vote for the first time just for her.

    I do agree that in 2024, a female Democrat President-elect is virtually a certainty.

    Who was also part of the most powerful political machine of them all, AND had millions of female voters who wanted the first female (Democrat) President ever badly enough to do more for her campaign than they would have done for any male Democrat. Many women registered to vote for the first time just for her.

    Yet 53% of white women voted for Trump.

    • Replies: @Thomm
    That is besides the point.

    Women overall voted for Hillary. They also turned out in greater numbers for Hillary than for prior Democrats.

    Look, I am the one saying that Trump absolutely wins in 2020, and this is because he will secure 5 points more of the black/Hispanic/Asian vote than he did in 2016, but no less of the white vote.

    It is AK and others who think Trump will lose.

    , @Kent Nationalist
    Catholic immigration was a mistake
    , @RadicalCenter
    And slightly more if the figure we are seeing includes Jewish women.
  18. @ImmortalRationalist

    Who was also part of the most powerful political machine of them all, AND had millions of female voters who wanted the first female (Democrat) President ever badly enough to do more for her campaign than they would have done for any male Democrat. Many women registered to vote for the first time just for her.
     
    https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1478780146447.png

    Yet 53% of white women voted for Trump.

    That is besides the point.

    Women overall voted for Hillary. They also turned out in greater numbers for Hillary than for prior Democrats.

    Look, I am the one saying that Trump absolutely wins in 2020, and this is because he will secure 5 points more of the black/Hispanic/Asian vote than he did in 2016, but no less of the white vote.

    It is AK and others who think Trump will lose.

    • Replies: @ImmortalRationalist

    but no less of the white vote.
     
    Why? Whites turned out in higher numbers and in greater percentages for Trump in the Rust Belt states that were previously part of the Blue Wall, in the hope that he would bring manufacturing jobs back to America, build the wall, etc. He hasn't exactly done what he promised to do during his campaign, so there's little reason why Whites in rust belt states will turn out at the rates they did in 2016. Keep in mind that he only won these states by <1%. Just look at the state of the Alt Right. Almost all of the former Alt Righters have disavowed Trump. Even people like Ann Coulter oppose Trump now.
  19. In the long term future, do you think that climate change could have a dysgenic effect on intelligence? This could be true even after the Age of Malthusian Industrialism, when Malthusian conditions once again raise IQs through Clark-Unz selection. Since the “ice people” are responsible for the vast majority of scientific advancement today, a hotter climate could mean that the selection pressures created by the previously cold climate that raised IQs would no longer exist. Thus, the global north may in the long run develop a lower equilibrium IQ, on par with that of tropical regions today.

    • Replies: @Bonner Tal

    the selection pressures created by the previously cold climate that raised IQs
     
    don't exist anymore, not matter what. We are way too technologically advanced and have been for a long time. Clark's replacement of the lower class by the middle class has little to do with cold winters. You need malthusian conditions for that and those are largely independent of temperature.
  20. @Thomm
    That is besides the point.

    Women overall voted for Hillary. They also turned out in greater numbers for Hillary than for prior Democrats.

    Look, I am the one saying that Trump absolutely wins in 2020, and this is because he will secure 5 points more of the black/Hispanic/Asian vote than he did in 2016, but no less of the white vote.

    It is AK and others who think Trump will lose.

    but no less of the white vote.

    Why? Whites turned out in higher numbers and in greater percentages for Trump in the Rust Belt states that were previously part of the Blue Wall, in the hope that he would bring manufacturing jobs back to America, build the wall, etc. He hasn’t exactly done what he promised to do during his campaign, so there’s little reason why Whites in rust belt states will turn out at the rates they did in 2016. Keep in mind that he only won these states by <1%. Just look at the state of the Alt Right. Almost all of the former Alt Righters have disavowed Trump. Even people like Ann Coulter oppose Trump now.

    • Replies: @neutral
    I must also add that even if the alt right somehow still supported Trump, the demographic flood of non whites means that the white votes are simply not enough any more. Trump clearly did not care about this fact, as he believes that somehow sucking up to Israel and tax cuts are going to win him more votes. Trump is toast.
  21. On the topic of China and geopolitics, how jew wise are the Chinese? Both the rulers and the common man on the street? I don’t know how they could not see how most of US foreign policy is dictated by Israel, but could they take advantage of this fact and start openly targeting Israel as a weapon against the US regime.

    Things like sending troops into Syria and pointing missiles against Israel, supporting global BDS and funding Palestine. If Israel was directly threatened they would probably order the US to back off on China.

    • Replies: @anon

    On the topic of China and geopolitics, how jew wise are the Chinese? Both the rulers and the common man on the street?
     
    On the street, Jews are known - there is lot of trash books how to learn "Jewish secret of making money". At the top? No one knows.
    , @reiner Tor

    If Israel was directly threatened they would probably order the US to back off on China.
     
    That's the Hitler view of Jewish power, but that's not how it works, as Hitler would learn later. (Or should have learned, I'm not sure he really learned this lesson.)

    It's not a tight-knit well-organized Jewish conspiracy. It's a loose and very loosely coordinated confederation of most Jewish individuals, where each of them behaves based on his own fears (and that in turn is greatly influenced by what Jewish elites tell him, but it's not like Jewish elites are unanimous on each major political issue, there are several issues where the Jewish elites contain two or more divergent opinions), and so you cannot really reason with them the way you might reason with the government of a nation-state.

    Hitler tried a similar strategy of publicly threatening to exterminate European Jews, in the event Jews started a world war. (Basically, Hitler thought that the US, and perhaps the UK and France were all under Jewish rule, and so this meant to him that if these countries entered the conflict with Germany, it would be proof positive of Jewish involvement.) The result of these very public threats was not to prevent Jews from engaging in very strong anti-German propaganda, instead, it was the exact opposite: Jewish individuals, after hearing Hitler's threats, started to loath Hitler and the Nazis even more, and so their anti-German propaganda went into overdrive.

    The result with threatening Israel will be the same: Jews who care for Israel will be pushing for ever more anti-China action. Because there's no truly organized leadership, it will be very similar to how Jews reacted to Hitler's threats.
  22. @Anonymous
    From what I read of Yang's website, he is some kind of technocratic futurist with a platform that sounds like it was constructed by the readership of Slate Star Codex? Good luck. We like simple slogans ("Build the wall") and simple philosopgies ("Government bad!" "Environment good!"). Yang is nothing like Trump and Trump did not get elected because 4chan supported him (if anything he got elected in spite of it).

    Somebody like Yang has 0 chance of making any sort of splash in American politics. He should try his luck in Finland or some place like that.

    that sounds like it was constructed by the readership of Slate Star Codex

    It doesn’t have enough ‘polyamory’ for that

    • LOL: Anatoly Karlin
  23. @ImmortalRationalist

    Who was also part of the most powerful political machine of them all, AND had millions of female voters who wanted the first female (Democrat) President ever badly enough to do more for her campaign than they would have done for any male Democrat. Many women registered to vote for the first time just for her.
     
    https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1478780146447.png

    Yet 53% of white women voted for Trump.

    Catholic immigration was a mistake

    • Agree: EldnahYm
  24. anon[113] • Disclaimer says:
    @neutral
    On the topic of China and geopolitics, how jew wise are the Chinese? Both the rulers and the common man on the street? I don't know how they could not see how most of US foreign policy is dictated by Israel, but could they take advantage of this fact and start openly targeting Israel as a weapon against the US regime.

    Things like sending troops into Syria and pointing missiles against Israel, supporting global BDS and funding Palestine. If Israel was directly threatened they would probably order the US to back off on China.

    On the topic of China and geopolitics, how jew wise are the Chinese? Both the rulers and the common man on the street?

    On the street, Jews are known – there is lot of trash books how to learn “Jewish secret of making money”. At the top? No one knows.

  25. @Thomm

    If he runs against somebody like Biden or Sanders then he is toast. Both of them are leading by 10% points in Pennsylvania ffs!
     
    I wouldn't worry about that. It is very hard for an incumbent to be unseated barring a third-party situation like 1992, particularly if the economy was strong for most or all of his term.

    Both of the individuals you consider 'strong' are over age 75, and truly have no good ideas. If Biden was any good, he could have run and done well long before 2020.


    Trump was running against a uniquely unpopular and uncharismatic candidate in 2016.
     
    Who was also part of the most powerful political machine of them all, AND had millions of female voters who wanted the first female (Democrat) President ever badly enough to do more for her campaign than they would have done for any male Democrat. Many women registered to vote for the first time just for her.

    I do agree that in 2024, a female Democrat President-elect is virtually a certainty.

    The only way I see Trump winning in 2020 is a scenario where the Dems can’t help but shoot themselves in the foot again and nominate an unpopular candidate, and Trump boomers his way to victory. I would guesstimate that Trump has a ~45% chance of getting reelected.

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ

    and nominate an unpopular candidate,
     
    Such as?
    , @Yevardian

    I would guesstimate that Trump has a ~45% chance of getting reelected.
     
    I think this is far too generous. No way in hell is dRUmpF ever winning over the Rust Belt again.
  26. @ImmortalRationalist

    but no less of the white vote.
     
    Why? Whites turned out in higher numbers and in greater percentages for Trump in the Rust Belt states that were previously part of the Blue Wall, in the hope that he would bring manufacturing jobs back to America, build the wall, etc. He hasn't exactly done what he promised to do during his campaign, so there's little reason why Whites in rust belt states will turn out at the rates they did in 2016. Keep in mind that he only won these states by <1%. Just look at the state of the Alt Right. Almost all of the former Alt Righters have disavowed Trump. Even people like Ann Coulter oppose Trump now.

    I must also add that even if the alt right somehow still supported Trump, the demographic flood of non whites means that the white votes are simply not enough any more. Trump clearly did not care about this fact, as he believes that somehow sucking up to Israel and tax cuts are going to win him more votes. Trump is toast.

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    Steve Sailer previously said that the GOP can remain competitive in US national elections up to the 2050s if it will get one out of every three white Obama voters to vote for it.
  27. @Mikhail
    Brookings Panel on Russia & China

    Re: https://www.c-span.org/video/?461307-1/us-russia-china-relations

    Michael O'Hanlon is much less diplomatic when compared to his RT CrossTalk appearances. Thomas Ehrhard engages in some neocon/neolib, wishful thinking, hate mongering, by stating that Russia and China have thousands of years of enmity towards each other, in a way nullifying their being able to forge a long term friendly relationship.

    Where's the thousands of years as claimed?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Sino-Russian_relations

    As for the last four hundred years, China and Russia show up and down trends. Do they've a more difficult past with each other than France-Germany, Britain-France, Britain-Germany, France-Britain - never minding Britain's two wars against America and the former's support for southern secessionists during the American Civil War.

    Sino-Russian relations are ancient despite some people on reddit and wiki thinking that they are not!

    Russia is located at the northern end of the world. During the Han Empire [same time as the Romans in Europe], the ancestors of the Russians were the tribes of Jiankun and Dingling [these were actually Kyrgyz people, not Russians]. During the Tang Empire [same time as the Carolingians], the Russians were the tribes of Xiajiasi and Guligan [still Kyrgyz]. During the Yuan Empire [when the Mongols ruled China], they were called the Aluosi and the Jilijisi [the Aluosi are actually Russians conquered by the Mongols, the Jilijisi are still Kyrgyz]. During the three hundred years of Ming rule [from 1368 to 1644] they lost contact with China. During the Qing Empire, in the reign of the Kangxi emperor, they finally paid tribute. They have eight provinces, which they call sike [maybe a Russian can tell me what this is?], and each sike is divided into smaller sike.


    Original Chinese source: Huang Qing Zhigong Tu (18th century)

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    So, should the Mongols from centuries ago be equated with core modern day Chinese? The gist of my point remains correct in noting that Russia and China aren't historically hateful towards each other to the point of negating the possibility of a very decent long term relationship.
  28. World map of countries that have banned Huawei

    Seems outdated.
    Malaysia is in the “Embracing Huawei” camp.

    Germany’s Infineon signed up to US sanctions on Huawei, while Taiwan’s TCMS did not.

    Better be careful with Nikkei.

    FRANKFURT (Reuters) – German chipmaker Infineon denied a Japanese newspaper report on Monday that it had suspended shipments to Huawei Technologies after the United States slapped export controls on deliveries to the Chinese telecoms company.

    Infineon, a maker of power-management chips used in smartphones and cars, said that most of its products were not covered by the U.S. export control restrictions announced by the Trump administration last week.

    “As of today, the great majority of products Infineon delivers to Huawei is not subject to U.S. export control law restrictions, therefore those shipments will continue,” Infineon said in a statement.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-huawei-tech-usa-infineon-denial/infineon-denies-report-that-it-has-suspended-huawei-shipments-idUKKCN1SQ108

  29. AP says:

    Insomniac Resurrected: Facebook Hires a Neonazi As Its Public Policy Manager in Ukraine.

    Svoboda Party are not neo-Nazis, so the claim is b.s. They are right-wing like the Austrian Freedom Party.

    The major neo-Nazis in Ukraine are from Azov. I was expecting her to be from there, but instead – Svoboda.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    On the subject of the Austrian Freedom Party:

    https://www.dw.com/en/austrias-fp%C3%B6-freedom-party-a-turbulent-history/a-48789817

    Labeling aside, Svoboda qualifies as having extreme, hateful views, which are in line with what the likes of the aforementioned Kruk have said over the course of time.
    , @Mr. XYZ

    Svoboda Party are not neo-Nazis, so the claim is b.s. They are right-wing like the Austrian Freedom Party.
     
    Did the Austrian Freedom Party's leader previously do a Nazi salute like Tyahnybok did?
    , @Gerard2

    Svoboda Party are not neo-Nazis, so the claim is b.s. They are right-wing like the Austrian Freedom Party.

    The major neo-Nazis in Ukraine are from Azov. I was expecting her to be from there, but instead – Svoboda.
     
    LOL ..I go away for a few days and "surprise" a sicko as yourself is AGAIN spamming here with complete BS.

    You are not in any position to be familar with the vagaries of Ukrainian politics in order to ascertain who are or are not neo-nazis you cretin. You simply copy-and paste (lies) from similarly propagandist, habitual lying fantasists based in North America who also have Banderatard "heritage"
    .
    They (Svoboda) are neo-Nazis, 100%, by any western measure you idiot. To compare them to the Austrian Freedom party would be as dumb as comparing the Communist party in China to the Democrat party in the US, or to compare Vladimir Lenin to Lenin Moreno of Ecuador -

    It's simply an idiotic comparison. The AFP could say they want an Austria with the same characteristics as it had in 1956 of 1856 or 1756 or 1656 - the village retards in Svoboda , for obvious reasons, could not ask for the same.
  30. Israel might as well be part of the Five Eyes.

    https://www.rt.com/news/460785-nsa-israel-intelligence-partner/

    While the story might be important and true, I think the particular link is ironic in some sense because it goes to RT website, which – as everyone can see – is always running different Israeli software (although any information from that kind of site would be unimportant and useless).

    For example, it’s obvious to write comment on RT website, you use that in-memory platform founded by people who on linkedin it says their first job is Israeli army programmers. So when anyone clicks “like” on a comment on RT, this information goes to what will be labelled as “RT folder”, in a database owned by some hipsters who live in Tel Aviv.

    Not that anyone would be interested about random comments of unimportant people, on a politics site, except sociologists – not as individual comments, but as trends. And the information from that kind of place will be 100% useless (it will be hundreds of gigabytes of data, including folders with data of every “like” a comment receives, with folders for each website, and no-one would probably would want or could use such useless information).

    Israeli who created that particular platform which RT uses, was originally working in data loss prevention systems like Onigma. And he’s quite paranoid person
    https://www.quora.com/Whose-fault-is-the-Heartbleed-bug-Who-wrote-the-code-responsible/answer/Ishay-Green

    I watched an interview video with him a few months ago, and he is far left politically.

    He is a typical uneducated idiot who thinks autonomous cars will lead to a slave revolution at 49:30

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    https://www.rt.com/news/460785-nsa-israel-intelligence-partner/

     

    Reading under the article, creates a surreal display. People are writing anti-Israel comments (this is RT's audience?), but the comments themselves are displayed on openly Israeli software, and is from a database which belongs to some homosexual Israeli hipsters that live in Tel Aviv.
  31. Danish election today. Paludan, who has embraced ethnic nationalism and called for expulsion based on ethnicity and religion (though the latter gets most headlines) is likely to enter parliament.

    Paludan has a Swedish father, which is a source of endless bantering between Danes and Swedes in nationalist forums and IRL gatherings. Interestingly enough, he went to the Scandza Forum in Copenhagen where he met some of the Swedish organisers from our nationalist scene. He even openly talked about the Grand Replacement. So he is very knowledgable.

    Sadly, he is still a zioshill. He berated some of the attendees for not being pro-Israel enough. Thinking this bullshit will save him. Meanwhile various jewish newspaper editors in denmark are going ballistic on him. Never cuck!

    Still, I am sick and tired of cultural nationalists/counter-jihadists. Though Paludan still suffers from the latter, he has at least augmented it with ethno-nationalism. Much like Baudet in the Netherlands or the leader of the True Finns’ party. This adds to an already promising trend in Western Europe and shows increasing maturity. The faster we can bury cultural nationalism/counter-jihadism, which inevitably ends as an instrument for Israel while leaving ethnic Europeans short-changed, the better.

    P.S. If Stram Kurs (‘Hard Line’), the party of Paludan, enters the parliament then Helmuth Nyborg will become a parliamentarian on their behalf as he is running in the elections and is placed among the top seats. He is a Grand Old Man of the HBD scene and a true pioneer. Exciting election!

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Kent Nationalist
    Is there some sort of financial or intelligence network support that being pro-Israel gets you, beyond being an extremely lame attempt at showing you're not a Nahtzee?
  32. @anonymous

    Yang is nothing like Trump and Trump did not get elected because 4chan supported him (if anything he got elected in spite of it).
     
    Well said, I am also tired of the 4chan worship. Chan memes work on specific limited audience of neets, nazis and nihilists who are sitting all day at their computers. To normies, they are revolting, incomprehensible or both.
    Donald won because of 100,000 votes in few critical swing states, not because good people of Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania savor green frog aesthetic, but because Hillary was too lazy to campaign there. And, in the end, it did not mattered at all.

    4chan and the alt-right neutralized the media, who already had all R candidates but one dancing to their tune. I think Trump would have been just mocked and ignored without the online support, pushback and memeing. They/we also subsequently made Hillary look ridiculous. (My favorite was the video of the guy shouting ‘Pepe’ in the middle of her speech, but getting ragdolled into a black SUV by her laconic guards probably also had its effect. Or the Weiner-Huma email comedy, alas unresolved.)

    I don’t think the tech-media faction will permit anything like that to happen in coming elections though. They are gradually killing off the alternate online media, and might just be waiting to silence the remaining refuges until when the election gets near enough.

    Since presidents usually get reelected and the Dem field seems pretty uninspiring, I’d still bet on Trump winning in 2020.

    After that, it’s anybody’s guess whether there will be more R presidents since we’re then getting into the timeframe when Florida and Texas could turn blue at any time. Was it in 2038 that whites will no longer be a majority? Should be over by then. Including 2020, that’s five more presidential elections.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  33. @Dmitry

    Israel might as well be part of the Five Eyes.

     

    https://www.rt.com/news/460785-nsa-israel-intelligence-partner/

    While the story might be important and true, I think the particular link is ironic in some sense because it goes to RT website, which - as everyone can see - is always running different Israeli software (although any information from that kind of site would be unimportant and useless).

    For example, it's obvious to write comment on RT website, you use that in-memory platform founded by people who on linkedin it says their first job is Israeli army programmers. So when anyone clicks "like" on a comment on RT, this information goes to what will be labelled as "RT folder", in a database owned by some hipsters who live in Tel Aviv.

    Not that anyone would be interested about random comments of unimportant people, on a politics site, except sociologists - not as individual comments, but as trends. And the information from that kind of place will be 100% useless (it will be hundreds of gigabytes of data, including folders with data of every "like" a comment receives, with folders for each website, and no-one would probably would want or could use such useless information).

    -

    Israeli who created that particular platform which RT uses, was originally working in data loss prevention systems like Onigma. And he's quite paranoid person
    https://www.quora.com/Whose-fault-is-the-Heartbleed-bug-Who-wrote-the-code-responsible/answer/Ishay-Green

    I watched an interview video with him a few months ago, and he is far left politically.

    He is a typical uneducated idiot who thinks autonomous cars will lead to a slave revolution at 49:30
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYVtfLjRvAM

    https://www.rt.com/news/460785-nsa-israel-intelligence-partner/

    Reading under the article, creates a surreal display. People are writing anti-Israel comments (this is RT’s audience?), but the comments themselves are displayed on openly Israeli software, and is from a database which belongs to some homosexual Israeli hipsters that live in Tel Aviv.

  34. Mmm, yes, South Africa has a lousy education system. Mmm. I’ve read they are trying to reform it by protests and tearing down statues of whitey though.

    I see that a boomer diplomat Swede (former UN ambassador, etc) has the first comment: “If correct: shocking and disappointing. The end of apartheid was 25 years ago. South Africa should work to be a role model for Africa.”

    Lol! Just wait for the role model to really get going.

    • Replies: @neutral

    South Africa should work to be a role model for Africa
     
    This is very telling of the typical liberal mindset. Note how he does not pick other African nations to be a role model for the rest, he picks South Africa. Deep down almost everyone is completely aware that blacks are an inferior race, however as a liberal they think everything can still work fine if just a few whites (and other non black races) hang around and keep things going. The truth is that a small elite cannot really run a successful state as philosopher kings, the success of society is the sum total of its entire population, and South Africa is a good model of this fact.
  35. @Thulean Friend
    Danish election today. Paludan, who has embraced ethnic nationalism and called for expulsion based on ethnicity and religion (though the latter gets most headlines) is likely to enter parliament.

    Paludan has a Swedish father, which is a source of endless bantering between Danes and Swedes in nationalist forums and IRL gatherings. Interestingly enough, he went to the Scandza Forum in Copenhagen where he met some of the Swedish organisers from our nationalist scene. He even openly talked about the Grand Replacement. So he is very knowledgable.

    Sadly, he is still a zioshill. He berated some of the attendees for not being pro-Israel enough. Thinking this bullshit will save him. Meanwhile various jewish newspaper editors in denmark are going ballistic on him. Never cuck!

    Still, I am sick and tired of cultural nationalists/counter-jihadists. Though Paludan still suffers from the latter, he has at least augmented it with ethno-nationalism. Much like Baudet in the Netherlands or the leader of the True Finns' party. This adds to an already promising trend in Western Europe and shows increasing maturity. The faster we can bury cultural nationalism/counter-jihadism, which inevitably ends as an instrument for Israel while leaving ethnic Europeans short-changed, the better.

    P.S. If Stram Kurs ('Hard Line'), the party of Paludan, enters the parliament then Helmuth Nyborg will become a parliamentarian on their behalf as he is running in the elections and is placed among the top seats. He is a Grand Old Man of the HBD scene and a true pioneer. Exciting election!

    Is there some sort of financial or intelligence network support that being pro-Israel gets you, beyond being an extremely lame attempt at showing you’re not a Nahtzee?

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend

    Is there some sort of financial or intelligence network support that being pro-Israel gets you, beyond being an extremely lame attempt at showing you’re not a Nahtzee?
     
    I mean there are rumors that Israel had a hand in the death of Jörd Haider. Those rumors could be enough to sway some "mainstream" nationalists.

    Many people noted that Wilders visited the Israeli embassay liteally hundreds of times over a period of several years back when he was still big, and this has been confirmed. So there is obviously significant Israeli interference.

    I think it ultimately boils down to the Jewish lobby in the US. They have a huge amount of influence in the media and the Congress - all the stereotypes are not 100% true but mostly true. I don't think that jews control US policy towards China for instance. But when it comes to Middle Eastern policy I think they have a huge say. Same is true towards Europe, especially various governments which are moving towards a nationalist direction. I think Orban understands that, which is why he is sucking up to Bibi.

    The fundamental problem is that Europe is basically a colony of the US which in turn has a hugely influentual jewish lobby both in the media and in Congress. Muslims, by contrast, have virtually zero institutional power. Which is why Wilders, Paludan et al feel far more comfortable openly baiting them. Soft targets. Jews are not soft targets, so they fear them because there is huge capacity for institutional backlash. Even if I believe that jews are ultimately far more dangerous to White interests, precisely because they try to make themselves completely protected from criticism whereas they smear White people daily in their newspapers (NYT etc). All that shit filters down to shabbos goyim newspaper editors in Europe. They take their cues from the US media.

    See the growing obsession with muh holocaust as an example of a forced import to Europe. Now even London is getting their own (postmodern) holocaust memorial near Westminster. It's really a sort of a territorial pissing. All of this are signs that Europe is a colony of the US in all but name.

    Sorry for the long answer, but it's a good question.

  36. @neutral
    On the topic of China and geopolitics, how jew wise are the Chinese? Both the rulers and the common man on the street? I don't know how they could not see how most of US foreign policy is dictated by Israel, but could they take advantage of this fact and start openly targeting Israel as a weapon against the US regime.

    Things like sending troops into Syria and pointing missiles against Israel, supporting global BDS and funding Palestine. If Israel was directly threatened they would probably order the US to back off on China.

    If Israel was directly threatened they would probably order the US to back off on China.

    That’s the Hitler view of Jewish power, but that’s not how it works, as Hitler would learn later. (Or should have learned, I’m not sure he really learned this lesson.)

    It’s not a tight-knit well-organized Jewish conspiracy. It’s a loose and very loosely coordinated confederation of most Jewish individuals, where each of them behaves based on his own fears (and that in turn is greatly influenced by what Jewish elites tell him, but it’s not like Jewish elites are unanimous on each major political issue, there are several issues where the Jewish elites contain two or more divergent opinions), and so you cannot really reason with them the way you might reason with the government of a nation-state.

    Hitler tried a similar strategy of publicly threatening to exterminate European Jews, in the event Jews started a world war. (Basically, Hitler thought that the US, and perhaps the UK and France were all under Jewish rule, and so this meant to him that if these countries entered the conflict with Germany, it would be proof positive of Jewish involvement.) The result of these very public threats was not to prevent Jews from engaging in very strong anti-German propaganda, instead, it was the exact opposite: Jewish individuals, after hearing Hitler’s threats, started to loath Hitler and the Nazis even more, and so their anti-German propaganda went into overdrive.

    The result with threatening Israel will be the same: Jews who care for Israel will be pushing for ever more anti-China action. Because there’s no truly organized leadership, it will be very similar to how Jews reacted to Hitler’s threats.

    • Replies: @neutral
    I wouldn't really call it a conspiracy that jews run America, no different to calling it a conspiracy that Manchuria was Japanese puppet in the 1930's. Politicians are openly supporting laws to criminalize anti jewish people, they are giving Israel endless amounts of money and will protect Israel from all UN resolutions, you have things like AIPAC, and so on. These are all well known facts, this is not a conspiracy theory, nor am I saying jews are conspiring, they are doing this openly and taking it for granted they are are in charge.

    Unlike Hitler where the international jew was nebulous and everywhere, Israel is a distinct target, taking out Israel would essentially be a decapitation strike on the US.
  37. @Pericles
    Mmm, yes, South Africa has a lousy education system. Mmm. I've read they are trying to reform it by protests and tearing down statues of whitey though.

    I see that a boomer diplomat Swede (former UN ambassador, etc) has the first comment: "If correct: shocking and disappointing. The end of apartheid was 25 years ago. South Africa should work to be a role model for Africa."

    Lol! Just wait for the role model to really get going.

    South Africa should work to be a role model for Africa

    This is very telling of the typical liberal mindset. Note how he does not pick other African nations to be a role model for the rest, he picks South Africa. Deep down almost everyone is completely aware that blacks are an inferior race, however as a liberal they think everything can still work fine if just a few whites (and other non black races) hang around and keep things going. The truth is that a small elite cannot really run a successful state as philosopher kings, the success of society is the sum total of its entire population, and South Africa is a good model of this fact.

    • Replies: @Gerard2

    This is very telling of the typical liberal mindset. Note how he does not pick other African nations to be a role model for the rest, he picks South Africa. Deep down almost everyone is completely aware that blacks are an inferior race, however as a liberal they think everything can still work fine if just a few whites (and other non black races) hang around and keep things going. The truth is that a small elite cannot really run a successful state as philosopher kings, the success of society is the sum total of its entire population, and South Africa is a good model of this fact.
     
    Bizarrely enough, despite the multitude of problems South Africa has had, and despite knowing what feels like a million white and Indian South Africans who have left the country and understandably feel ashamed of how South Africa is developing...........the population of whites and Indians in SA has remained at roughly the same now as it was at the end of apartheid.
  38. I think that the most important Russia news of the last week is the Gazprom dividend increase: ( https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/06/05/as-rumours-swirl-that-russias-gazprom-will-replace-its-chief-the-companys-value-keeps-growing-a65886 )
    The stoligarchs ( Rotenberg, Timchenko, Miller) seem to be on their way out and their assets are being reconsolidated. One can only dream of seeing Tsar Sechin out of the way to build a proper SOE run economy.

    Any opinion on this, ak?

    • Replies: @Beckow

    ...the most important Russia news of the last week is the Gazprom dividend increase
     
    Correct. When focusing on endless pow-pow's among the media designated faces, or on Facebook hires, we miss what is really going on. People meet to talk about what already happens, but they don't make it happen.

    The iron cage that Europe is in economically can't be changed without finally accepting the geographic reality of where the stuff is, and what one can sell and where. Pissing into a hurricane doesn't make you richer, it makes you soggy wet and poor.

    People are constantly distracting themselves with made-up reasons why reality will not prevail: liquid gas in a bottle, charging windmills, Qatar and crab nesting rights in Denmark change nothing. So Gazprom goes up.
    , @JL

    The stoligarchs ( Rotenberg, Timchenko, Miller) seem to be on their way out and their assets are being reconsolidated.
     
    I don't think these guys are necessarily on their way out, they are just being weened off a couple of particularly lucrative teats in the name of reform and efficiency. It's likely they'll get paid well for selling what are otherwise almost worthless shell companies. The Rotenbergs, for example, unloaded Mostortrest onto the NPF after the Olympics, then bought it back a few years later for another round of infrastructure spending. Timchenko still has Novatek, a company that benefitted from literally tens of billions of dollars of free pipeline infrastructure that the government built just for them (The market values NVTK at an EV/EBITDA of 10 vs. GAZP's 2-3 because it's so much more "efficient", uh huh.) And Miller will land on his feet somewhere cushy, he is very close to Putin and it doesn't look like there's been some kind of falling out between the two.

    Dividends are, of course, huge news, but much depends on who replaces Miller, assuming he is actually out. The market rumor mill has proposed a few potential candidates:

    Alexander Novak, Minister of Energy - He's fairly competent, has good relations with Sechin, but managed to push through the OPEC+ production cuts despite Sechin's opposition, so not necessarily his guy. Would be good for Gazprom.

    Alexander Dyukov, Head of Gazpromneft - This guy is the market favorite, he's done an excellent job of managing the oil production asset, increasing production and standing in sharp contrast to the mother company. He's market oriented, politically neutral.

    And, most interesting of all:

    Dmitry Medvedev, PM - This would be bad for GAZP, as he's obviously not a particularly competent manager and this position would just be viewed as a handsome pension reward for political loyalty. However, it would be great news for the market as a whole, but this veers into the realm of politics.

    Of course, we could see the appointment of some no-name bureaucrat (nobody knew who Miller was when he replaced Vyakharev), a silovik (i.e. Sechin guy), or a Rotenberg associate. These would all be bad for the market and the company. At the least, it's good to see some action in this arena, reforming Gazprom is long overdue.
  39. More Woke Capitalism, now against guns!

    Salesforce bans companies that sell certain types of guns from using its software

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/30/salesforce-bans-some-gun-sellers-from-using-its-software.html

    • Replies: @songbird
    Used to be that you could walk into any sports or department store in a major American city and walk out with a gun and ammo. Probably as late as the '80s.

    It is amazing how the culture has changed.
  40. *Russian puppets*

    Ukraine might be designated as major non-NATO US ally

    What?

  41. @reiner Tor

    If Israel was directly threatened they would probably order the US to back off on China.
     
    That's the Hitler view of Jewish power, but that's not how it works, as Hitler would learn later. (Or should have learned, I'm not sure he really learned this lesson.)

    It's not a tight-knit well-organized Jewish conspiracy. It's a loose and very loosely coordinated confederation of most Jewish individuals, where each of them behaves based on his own fears (and that in turn is greatly influenced by what Jewish elites tell him, but it's not like Jewish elites are unanimous on each major political issue, there are several issues where the Jewish elites contain two or more divergent opinions), and so you cannot really reason with them the way you might reason with the government of a nation-state.

    Hitler tried a similar strategy of publicly threatening to exterminate European Jews, in the event Jews started a world war. (Basically, Hitler thought that the US, and perhaps the UK and France were all under Jewish rule, and so this meant to him that if these countries entered the conflict with Germany, it would be proof positive of Jewish involvement.) The result of these very public threats was not to prevent Jews from engaging in very strong anti-German propaganda, instead, it was the exact opposite: Jewish individuals, after hearing Hitler's threats, started to loath Hitler and the Nazis even more, and so their anti-German propaganda went into overdrive.

    The result with threatening Israel will be the same: Jews who care for Israel will be pushing for ever more anti-China action. Because there's no truly organized leadership, it will be very similar to how Jews reacted to Hitler's threats.

    I wouldn’t really call it a conspiracy that jews run America, no different to calling it a conspiracy that Manchuria was Japanese puppet in the 1930’s. Politicians are openly supporting laws to criminalize anti jewish people, they are giving Israel endless amounts of money and will protect Israel from all UN resolutions, you have things like AIPAC, and so on. These are all well known facts, this is not a conspiracy theory, nor am I saying jews are conspiring, they are doing this openly and taking it for granted they are are in charge.

    Unlike Hitler where the international jew was nebulous and everywhere, Israel is a distinct target, taking out Israel would essentially be a decapitation strike on the US.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    Israel is a distinct target, taking out Israel would essentially be a decapitation strike on the US
     
    You are wrong. The influential oligarchs are American Jews, just as they were (to a smaller extent) back in 1940, and Israel is similar to Eastern European Jewry was back then: it's a beloved child.

    So destroying Israel would be destroying their child. Not a decapitating strike.

    The analogy is not fully correct, because you cannot hold Israel as hostage: as I wrote, they are not a rationally led tight organization, rather a loose conglomeration of disparate individuals and organizations. They don't coordinate, at least not that tightly. (They might even hate each other, like Soros v. Adelson.) The more you threaten or harm Israel, the more they will hate you. Destroying Israel will accomplish nothing, just make them hate you even more.

  42. https://www.euronews.com/2019/06/05/eu-to-start-infringement-procedure-against-italy-paper

    The EU is hellbent on being as unpopular as possible. Italexit is most likely the next contender after Brexit. Only this will be far messier – Italy is far more deeply integrated into the eurozone’s financial core. It has 1 trillion in government debt – all in euros. Its banks are massively indebted to German banks in particular.

    More than anything, this is the biggest gift that Salvini could ask for. Lega can go from ~30-35% to Orbanquese ~50% if this goes through and sustains itself over a period of years.

    • Replies: @Dacian Julien Soros
    Top kek. I can't wait for the right-wing "anti-EU" fiasco that would perfectly mirror Syriza. How do you like Brexit so far? Exiting requires money and balls, and Italy is somewhat short on both.

    You can't fart in Italy without making an EU flag wave. All those morons who watched decades of Merkel - French Guy meetings that decided their future, and in which they had no say, will come out of their ratholes to claim that Italy needs Europe. Again, we'll have a replay of Greece's provincial complexes, squared.
  43. @Daniel Chieh
    More Woke Capitalism, now against guns!

    Salesforce bans companies that sell certain types of guns from using its software

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/30/salesforce-bans-some-gun-sellers-from-using-its-software.html

    Used to be that you could walk into any sports or department store in a major American city and walk out with a gun and ammo. Probably as late as the ’80s.

    It is amazing how the culture has changed.

  44. @Kent Nationalist
    Is there some sort of financial or intelligence network support that being pro-Israel gets you, beyond being an extremely lame attempt at showing you're not a Nahtzee?

    Is there some sort of financial or intelligence network support that being pro-Israel gets you, beyond being an extremely lame attempt at showing you’re not a Nahtzee?

    I mean there are rumors that Israel had a hand in the death of Jörd Haider. Those rumors could be enough to sway some “mainstream” nationalists.

    Many people noted that Wilders visited the Israeli embassay liteally hundreds of times over a period of several years back when he was still big, and this has been confirmed. So there is obviously significant Israeli interference.

    I think it ultimately boils down to the Jewish lobby in the US. They have a huge amount of influence in the media and the Congress – all the stereotypes are not 100% true but mostly true. I don’t think that jews control US policy towards China for instance. But when it comes to Middle Eastern policy I think they have a huge say. Same is true towards Europe, especially various governments which are moving towards a nationalist direction. I think Orban understands that, which is why he is sucking up to Bibi.

    The fundamental problem is that Europe is basically a colony of the US which in turn has a hugely influentual jewish lobby both in the media and in Congress. Muslims, by contrast, have virtually zero institutional power. Which is why Wilders, Paludan et al feel far more comfortable openly baiting them. Soft targets. Jews are not soft targets, so they fear them because there is huge capacity for institutional backlash. Even if I believe that jews are ultimately far more dangerous to White interests, precisely because they try to make themselves completely protected from criticism whereas they smear White people daily in their newspapers (NYT etc). All that shit filters down to shabbos goyim newspaper editors in Europe. They take their cues from the US media.

    See the growing obsession with muh holocaust as an example of a forced import to Europe. Now even London is getting their own (postmodern) holocaust memorial near Westminster. It’s really a sort of a territorial pissing. All of this are signs that Europe is a colony of the US in all but name.

    Sorry for the long answer, but it’s a good question.


  45. Apple fanboys will pay a thousand bucks for this. And they will try to defend it.

  46. TL;DR summary: The Ukraine is poor man’s Arkansas.


    Fun anecdote: In Kentucky decades ago, it was a joke that the state motto was, “Thank God for Arkansas!” because Arkansas was the only thing keeping Kentucky from being “50th out of 50” in most American state stats. (However, both states have improved somewhat and it is now Mississippi or West Virginia that is 50th in most categories)

    Big difference: Arkansas has much better cultural products than the Ukraine.

    Examples of truly fine Arkansas cultural products:

    – Patrick Claiborne, brave Civil War Confederate general [born in Ireland]
    – Johnny Cash, genius musician – very underrated, in fact, for his creative skill
    – Levon Helm, rock and roll legend
    – The marvelous actor (and musician) and total nutjob, Billy Bob Thornton
    – My personal favorite …… Charles Portis, best known for writing ‘True Grit.’ His novel ‘Dog of the South’ is also fantastic. Porthis had marvelous skill at capturing the local dialect and attitude of the south-central U.S. and turning it into a compelling element of good literature.

    The following song about Arkansas is a fine one, well-written, song by two men in funny 1970s American clothes:

    Biggest similarity: Arkansas and the Ukraine both tend to produce ham-fisted and highly corrupt fake populist politicians, such as Huckabee and Clinton.

    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    While I'm on the subject of Arkansas and in a chatty mood, here's one of my favorite Johnny Cash stories, a tale that shows his remarkable wit

    In the 1980s, the thoroughly crazy Johnny Paycheck, another country singer, was arrested and charged with attempted murder after shooting a man in an Ohio tavern.

    Paycheck's people were desperate to find bail money, so they called Johnny Cash and asked him if he could help.

    After hearing their request, Cash simply said, "The 'house of Cash' is a misnomer" and hung up the phone.

    :)

    , @Mr. XYZ

    Big difference: Arkansas has much better cultural products than the Ukraine.
     
    Arkansas also has much more blacks (and non-whites in general) than Ukraine has.
    , @AP

    Arkansas has much better cultural products than the Ukraine.
     
    LOL.

    Gogol and horilka already beat them all.
    , @simple_pseudonymic_handle
    Ukraine has nothing to compare with Sam Walton.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Walmart

    He was born in Oklahoma but he built the world's greatest ever retail chain from Arkansas.
  47. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    TL;DR summary: The Ukraine is poor man's Arkansas.

    https://i.ibb.co/wh3Z6Z0/Kenya.png

    Fun anecdote: In Kentucky decades ago, it was a joke that the state motto was, "Thank God for Arkansas!" because Arkansas was the only thing keeping Kentucky from being "50th out of 50" in most American state stats. (However, both states have improved somewhat and it is now Mississippi or West Virginia that is 50th in most categories)

    Big difference: Arkansas has much better cultural products than the Ukraine.

    Examples of truly fine Arkansas cultural products:

    - Patrick Claiborne, brave Civil War Confederate general [born in Ireland]
    - Johnny Cash, genius musician - very underrated, in fact, for his creative skill
    - Levon Helm, rock and roll legend
    - The marvelous actor (and musician) and total nutjob, Billy Bob Thornton
    - My personal favorite ...... Charles Portis, best known for writing 'True Grit.' His novel 'Dog of the South' is also fantastic. Porthis had marvelous skill at capturing the local dialect and attitude of the south-central U.S. and turning it into a compelling element of good literature.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y492Y7k_Sc

    The following song about Arkansas is a fine one, well-written, song by two men in funny 1970s American clothes:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czF0coM2DMk

    Biggest similarity: Arkansas and the Ukraine both tend to produce ham-fisted and highly corrupt fake populist politicians, such as Huckabee and Clinton.

    While I’m on the subject of Arkansas and in a chatty mood, here’s one of my favorite Johnny Cash stories, a tale that shows his remarkable wit

    In the 1980s, the thoroughly crazy Johnny Paycheck, another country singer, was arrested and charged with attempted murder after shooting a man in an Ohio tavern.

    Paycheck’s people were desperate to find bail money, so they called Johnny Cash and asked him if he could help.

    After hearing their request, Cash simply said, “The ‘house of Cash’ is a misnomer” and hung up the phone.

    🙂

  48. @Thomm

    UBI is not socialism, let alone “plain old” socialism.
     
    His method of paying for it - higher taxation on the wealthy - is.

    There is some marginal benefit to consolidating all existing entitlement programs into a single universal payout, and save the 10-20% that is wasted across all departments and means-testing, but Yang absolutely wants to increase taxes collected in relation to GDP.

    This makes me think that Yang is not as smart as he thinks he is. He has forgotten or not known what a wise man once said. Societies get more of what they subsidize and less of what they tax.

    • Agree: Thomm
  49. I find Duke of Qin’s comment about Taiwan being a fake and gay country with regards to tradition vs. values to be quite entertaining. Its Taiwan that seems to have a more authentic traditional Chinese culture. The mainlanders effectively destroyed traditional Chinese culture during Mao’s cultural revolution. That’s why China today resembles a science fiction novel or movie where everything is new and there is no “culture” per se.

    • Agree: Adam, EldnahYm, utu
    • Replies: @anonymous coward

    authentic traditional Chinese culture
     
    And by that you mean Manchu cosplay, yes?
    , @yakushimaru
    It goes deeper than that. Some three decades of Mao is traumatic but nothing that China cannot recover from. There were other traumas in China's long history. For example, the Mongol thoroughly crushed China, for awhile.

    An interesting and relevant episode in Chinese history is the establishment of Tang Dynasty. The northern foreingers, basically, invaded and drove the Han to the south, but later on it's the northerners who became Tang and unified China again.

    The point is, I guess, that, for example, people in Taiwan only has Taiwan in mind, while people in heartland of China has entire China in mind. And the history and traditions are always in the books. Gradually they will be picked up again albeit in transitioned forms. When opportunities present itself, a unified China will come about again.

    The authenticity of tradition in Taiwan is, and can only be, skin deep, for good or bad.
  50. @Swarthy Greek
    I think that the most important Russia news of the last week is the Gazprom dividend increase: ( https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/06/05/as-rumours-swirl-that-russias-gazprom-will-replace-its-chief-the-companys-value-keeps-growing-a65886 )
    The stoligarchs ( Rotenberg, Timchenko, Miller) seem to be on their way out and their assets are being reconsolidated. One can only dream of seeing Tsar Sechin out of the way to build a proper SOE run economy.

    Any opinion on this, ak?

    …the most important Russia news of the last week is the Gazprom dividend increase

    Correct. When focusing on endless pow-pow’s among the media designated faces, or on Facebook hires, we miss what is really going on. People meet to talk about what already happens, but they don’t make it happen.

    The iron cage that Europe is in economically can’t be changed without finally accepting the geographic reality of where the stuff is, and what one can sell and where. Pissing into a hurricane doesn’t make you richer, it makes you soggy wet and poor.

    People are constantly distracting themselves with made-up reasons why reality will not prevail: liquid gas in a bottle, charging windmills, Qatar and crab nesting rights in Denmark change nothing. So Gazprom goes up.

  51. @anonymous

    Yang is nothing like Trump and Trump did not get elected because 4chan supported him (if anything he got elected in spite of it).
     
    Well said, I am also tired of the 4chan worship. Chan memes work on specific limited audience of neets, nazis and nihilists who are sitting all day at their computers. To normies, they are revolting, incomprehensible or both.
    Donald won because of 100,000 votes in few critical swing states, not because good people of Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania savor green frog aesthetic, but because Hillary was too lazy to campaign there. And, in the end, it did not mattered at all.

    Of course he didn’t get elected due solely to the chans, but I think it’s going too far to completely discount them (along with the contribution of other somewhat fringe websites). You may find them juvenile (and you may often be right), but funny memes really do have influence on people, not least of which is the ability to generate enthusiasm and drive up turnout for your own side. You can even see how the best memes leak into common use on more “normie” sites. Things like “cuck” and “snowflake” started as fringe right-wing memes but are now common parlance on any site where the left and right clash heads.

    There’s a reason propaganda exists, and having a reasonably large pool of semi-talented people willing to make funny image macros in support of you and spam them on more mainstream sites for free seems to me like a non negligible asset.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I like 4chan but the zeitgeist there is so consciously weird and fringy that it really limits the mass appeal. r/The_Donald/ was probably the best internet weapon Trump had; they are good at generating the sort of PG-13, "worksafe" stuff that ordinary people would find interesting/amusing and be likely to forward to their friends. 4chan memes are mostly just a weird melange anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, crude racism, misogyny, homophobia and anime.
  52. @Mitleser
    Sino-Russian relations are ancient despite some people on reddit and wiki thinking that they are not!

    Russia is located at the northern end of the world. During the Han Empire [same time as the Romans in Europe], the ancestors of the Russians were the tribes of Jiankun and Dingling [these were actually Kyrgyz people, not Russians]. During the Tang Empire [same time as the Carolingians], the Russians were the tribes of Xiajiasi and Guligan [still Kyrgyz]. During the Yuan Empire [when the Mongols ruled China], they were called the Aluosi and the Jilijisi [the Aluosi are actually Russians conquered by the Mongols, the Jilijisi are still Kyrgyz]. During the three hundred years of Ming rule [from 1368 to 1644] they lost contact with China. During the Qing Empire, in the reign of the Kangxi emperor, they finally paid tribute. They have eight provinces, which they call sike [maybe a Russian can tell me what this is?], and each sike is divided into smaller sike.
     
    https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments/7wrgvs/18thcentury_chinese_drawing_of_a_swiss_mercenary/du2mb2c/
    Original Chinese source: Huang Qing Zhigong Tu (18th century)

    So, should the Mongols from centuries ago be equated with core modern day Chinese? The gist of my point remains correct in noting that Russia and China aren’t historically hateful towards each other to the point of negating the possibility of a very decent long term relationship.

  53. @AP

    Insomniac Resurrected: Facebook Hires a Neonazi As Its Public Policy Manager in Ukraine.
     
    Svoboda Party are not neo-Nazis, so the claim is b.s. They are right-wing like the Austrian Freedom Party.

    The major neo-Nazis in Ukraine are from Azov. I was expecting her to be from there, but instead - Svoboda.

    On the subject of the Austrian Freedom Party:

    https://www.dw.com/en/austrias-fp%C3%B6-freedom-party-a-turbulent-history/a-48789817

    Labeling aside, Svoboda qualifies as having extreme, hateful views, which are in line with what the likes of the aforementioned Kruk have said over the course of time.

    • Replies: @songbird

    The son of Austrian Nazi Party members, Haider had become leader of the FPÖ youth movement in 1970 and nine years later, the party's youngest delegate to parliament. By 1986, he was espousing nationalist, anti-immigration and anti-EU views as head of the party.
     
    DW described Merkel as a devout Christian. I wonder if they wrote anything critical about her commie parents.

    DW, like all state-media, should be defunded. When it is not virulent anti-ethnic-European agit-prop, it comes across as very bland fluff - on TV, poor entertainment for old people strapped in beds.
  54. Shifting values in action:

    The British Royals’ official Twitter account has caused bemusement after tweeting a video with a message saying that the Queen met leaders of ‘‘allied nations” that took part in D-Day. And that included Angela Merkel.

    https://www.rt.com/uk/461133-queen-merkel-germany-d-day/

    • Replies: @anon
    This is ordinary diplomacy in action - yesterday's enemy is today's friend and vice versa. Nothing new under the sun.
    The war is over, for 75 years, time to move on. Were the British in 19th century still hating French and looking for Napoleon under every bed in 1890?
  55. @Mikhail
    On the subject of the Austrian Freedom Party:

    https://www.dw.com/en/austrias-fp%C3%B6-freedom-party-a-turbulent-history/a-48789817

    Labeling aside, Svoboda qualifies as having extreme, hateful views, which are in line with what the likes of the aforementioned Kruk have said over the course of time.

    The son of Austrian Nazi Party members, Haider had become leader of the FPÖ youth movement in 1970 and nine years later, the party’s youngest delegate to parliament. By 1986, he was espousing nationalist, anti-immigration and anti-EU views as head of the party.

    DW described Merkel as a devout Christian. I wonder if they wrote anything critical about her commie parents.

    DW, like all state-media, should be defunded. When it is not virulent anti-ethnic-European agit-prop, it comes across as very bland fluff – on TV, poor entertainment for old people strapped in beds.

  56. @Abelard Lindsey
    I find Duke of Qin's comment about Taiwan being a fake and gay country with regards to tradition vs. values to be quite entertaining. Its Taiwan that seems to have a more authentic traditional Chinese culture. The mainlanders effectively destroyed traditional Chinese culture during Mao's cultural revolution. That's why China today resembles a science fiction novel or movie where everything is new and there is no "culture" per se.

    authentic traditional Chinese culture

    And by that you mean Manchu cosplay, yes?

  57. @Abelard Lindsey
    I find Duke of Qin's comment about Taiwan being a fake and gay country with regards to tradition vs. values to be quite entertaining. Its Taiwan that seems to have a more authentic traditional Chinese culture. The mainlanders effectively destroyed traditional Chinese culture during Mao's cultural revolution. That's why China today resembles a science fiction novel or movie where everything is new and there is no "culture" per se.

    It goes deeper than that. Some three decades of Mao is traumatic but nothing that China cannot recover from. There were other traumas in China’s long history. For example, the Mongol thoroughly crushed China, for awhile.

    An interesting and relevant episode in Chinese history is the establishment of Tang Dynasty. The northern foreingers, basically, invaded and drove the Han to the south, but later on it’s the northerners who became Tang and unified China again.

    The point is, I guess, that, for example, people in Taiwan only has Taiwan in mind, while people in heartland of China has entire China in mind. And the history and traditions are always in the books. Gradually they will be picked up again albeit in transitioned forms. When opportunities present itself, a unified China will come about again.

    The authenticity of tradition in Taiwan is, and can only be, skin deep, for good or bad.

    • Replies: @Abelard Lindsey
    Maybe. The next few decades ought to tell whether they culturally recover from Maoism or not. A lot of it depends on how much of the books and other records of traditional culture survived the purges of the cultural revolution as well as how well the people who lived through it are able to overcome the psychological trauma of that experience such that they are able to teach their kids or grandkids the nuances of traditional culture.

    My impression was that traditional culture was pretty much extinct during my travels their in '06. That, and other people telling me the same thing, is what prompted my comment about modern China having the "sterility" of a science fiction setting

    Things may have slowly recovered since then.

    Stalinism pretty much destroyed rural Russian culture.
    , @Abelard Lindsey
    If traditionalism is so wonderful, why does is not correlate with (and foster) the virtues of property rights, objective rule of law, and transparent financial markets? Clearly these are desirable things, no?
  58. “German wind & solar programw was 4x as expensive as French nuclear program for same amount of energy produced.”
    Without taking into account risk.

  59. • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Yes, certainly big if true.

    I mentioned that link btw: "*rejuvenation* Mice lifespan doubled."
  60. Youtube just did a giant purge. A huge amount of channels got wiped. They also instituted new rules, effectively banning any discussion on gender differences, race/IQ etc. I guess this was coming but no more “3 strikes and you’re out” stuff. Just instabanned/purged huge amounts of stuff and it will likely stay that way.

    All of this will be defended by the same people who pooh-pooh China for being a totalitarian society. It’s amazing that I got to experience a relatively free internet in my youth where there was true anonymity and you could watch and write anything.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    LOL, just as I was thinking about setting up my Russian HBD channel. Are there any more details on this?
    , @Matra
    Seems weird that Steven Crowder was demonetised along with Red Ice, Luke Ford, Sellner, and Allsup. I thought Crowder was just the usual Israel Firster-Socialism Sucks conservatardism. This would suggest its going well beyond 'edgy' channels.
  61. @yakushimaru
    It goes deeper than that. Some three decades of Mao is traumatic but nothing that China cannot recover from. There were other traumas in China's long history. For example, the Mongol thoroughly crushed China, for awhile.

    An interesting and relevant episode in Chinese history is the establishment of Tang Dynasty. The northern foreingers, basically, invaded and drove the Han to the south, but later on it's the northerners who became Tang and unified China again.

    The point is, I guess, that, for example, people in Taiwan only has Taiwan in mind, while people in heartland of China has entire China in mind. And the history and traditions are always in the books. Gradually they will be picked up again albeit in transitioned forms. When opportunities present itself, a unified China will come about again.

    The authenticity of tradition in Taiwan is, and can only be, skin deep, for good or bad.

    Maybe. The next few decades ought to tell whether they culturally recover from Maoism or not. A lot of it depends on how much of the books and other records of traditional culture survived the purges of the cultural revolution as well as how well the people who lived through it are able to overcome the psychological trauma of that experience such that they are able to teach their kids or grandkids the nuances of traditional culture.

    My impression was that traditional culture was pretty much extinct during my travels their in ’06. That, and other people telling me the same thing, is what prompted my comment about modern China having the “sterility” of a science fiction setting

    Things may have slowly recovered since then.

    Stalinism pretty much destroyed rural Russian culture.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    2006 China is a very different country from 2019 China. A lot of traditionalism that is being revived is larping, but I think a lot of traditionalism is that way - consistent larping is what makes it real.
    , @anonymous

    Stalinism pretty much destroyed rural Russian culture.
     
    It is modernity, not communism. Communism was just accelerated modernity, doing in few years what took centuries elsewhere.
    Is there any "traditional rural culture" in developed countries that never had communism? No. It survives, at best, as cosplay and tourist show.
    Does anyone misses it? No. Not even the most hardcore nationalist folks look like this any more.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7lCuFhV4AAe2ng.jpg
  62. Rodney Brooks is right that autonomous cars will be a long time in coming. I don’t expect them for another 20 years. When they do come, it will include the automation being built into the roads as well as the cars, with autonomous freeway driving (these are called “slaveways” in “Queen of Angels”) coming first.

    I think we’re already headed into another “AI winter” and, as someone noted before, with Moore’s Law hitting what appears to be a hard limit.

    • Replies: @Bonner Tal
    Moore's law will not be particularly relevant for AI accelerators, at least not for the next one or two decades. I expect things to be massively scaled in the next decade, see for example OpenAI's plans. Then either very impressive stuff will happen or there might actually be an AI winter.

    But right now any AI winter is still far away. The adoption phase of stuff that works has only just started. And if anything, the yearly break throughs are getting more impressive.
  63. @Abelard Lindsey
    I would think this qualifies as robust mouse rejuvenation:

    https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2019/05/rejuvenate-bio-using-gene-therapy-has-reversed-aging-effects-in-mice-and-dogs.html

    Yes, certainly big if true.

    I mentioned that link btw: “*rejuvenation* Mice lifespan doubled.

    • Replies: @Abelard Lindsey
    Here's the thing about this.

    I don't have the money to set up my own lab to duplicate what George Church did (it was his multi-gene therapy he talked about some months ago). However, I can read the papers and look at what the intended molecular biological changes were of that gene therapy, then work back and identify whatever supplements and other compounds can induce those same changes in me (and my wife!) in order to get the same results on the cheap (and without FDA approval!).
    , @Mr. XYZ
    How long do you think before we are able to successfully rejuvenate humans?
  64. @Thulean Friend
    Youtube just did a giant purge. A huge amount of channels got wiped. They also instituted new rules, effectively banning any discussion on gender differences, race/IQ etc. I guess this was coming but no more "3 strikes and you're out" stuff. Just instabanned/purged huge amounts of stuff and it will likely stay that way.

    All of this will be defended by the same people who pooh-pooh China for being a totalitarian society. It's amazing that I got to experience a relatively free internet in my youth where there was true anonymity and you could watch and write anything.

    LOL, just as I was thinking about setting up my Russian HBD channel. Are there any more details on this?

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    God sent you a sign not to engage in the stupid medium of video and vlogging, and instead stick to blogging. He has already sent AaronB and Dmitry to show His dissatisfaction, later on further disasters are to befall you, unless you repent and give up your heretical plans.
  65. @Anatoly Karlin
    LOL, just as I was thinking about setting up my Russian HBD channel. Are there any more details on this?

    God sent you a sign not to engage in the stupid medium of video and vlogging, and instead stick to blogging. He has already sent AaronB and Dmitry to show His dissatisfaction, later on further disasters are to befall you, unless you repent and give up your heretical plans.

    • LOL: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    https://twitter.com/akarlin88/status/1136382466988617729
  66. @Anatoly Karlin
    Yes, certainly big if true.

    I mentioned that link btw: "*rejuvenation* Mice lifespan doubled."

    Here’s the thing about this.

    I don’t have the money to set up my own lab to duplicate what George Church did (it was his multi-gene therapy he talked about some months ago). However, I can read the papers and look at what the intended molecular biological changes were of that gene therapy, then work back and identify whatever supplements and other compounds can induce those same changes in me (and my wife!) in order to get the same results on the cheap (and without FDA approval!).

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
  67. @Abelard Lindsey
    Maybe. The next few decades ought to tell whether they culturally recover from Maoism or not. A lot of it depends on how much of the books and other records of traditional culture survived the purges of the cultural revolution as well as how well the people who lived through it are able to overcome the psychological trauma of that experience such that they are able to teach their kids or grandkids the nuances of traditional culture.

    My impression was that traditional culture was pretty much extinct during my travels their in '06. That, and other people telling me the same thing, is what prompted my comment about modern China having the "sterility" of a science fiction setting

    Things may have slowly recovered since then.

    Stalinism pretty much destroyed rural Russian culture.

    2006 China is a very different country from 2019 China. A lot of traditionalism that is being revived is larping, but I think a lot of traditionalism is that way – consistent larping is what makes it real.

    • Replies: @AquariusAnon
    I'm not sure about other regions, but in Shanghai, since 2006, Buddhist temples have been one-by-one reconstructed and I notice a significant uptick in preserving the local dialect. These are all good trends that should keep going.

    And P.S. the picture that Karlin put up, with those wide sidewalks, 21st century-style anthill apartment blocks, and the mist, at first I thought this is a suburb of a major Chinese city. I'm very skeptical of any Sino-Russian alliance, but architecture and urban planning is something Russia should completely 100% outsource to the Chinese.

  68. @Haruto Rat
    Shifting values in action:

    The British Royals’ official Twitter account has caused bemusement after tweeting a video with a message saying that the Queen met leaders of ‘‘allied nations” that took part in D-Day. And that included Angela Merkel.
     
    https://www.rt.com/uk/461133-queen-merkel-germany-d-day/

    This is ordinary diplomacy in action – yesterday’s enemy is today’s friend and vice versa. Nothing new under the sun.
    The war is over, for 75 years, time to move on. Were the British in 19th century still hating French and looking for Napoleon under every bed in 1890?

    • Replies: @Mitleser

    Were the British in 19th century still hating French and looking for Napoleon under every bed in 1890?
     
    You are not that far off.

    For much of the 1890s most examples of Invasion Literature focused on the possibility of French invasion rather than German, at this point in history Anglo-French relations had reached a low point not helped by the fact the French and Russians had established an alliance (Russia had been a rival of Britain for many years in Central Asia in particular). The most prolific of the Invasion Literature writers was William Le Queux who’s first novel The Great War in England in 1897 (1894) is an important work in the genre (Le Queux’s agent character “Duckworth Drew” is considered to be a possible influence on Ian Fleming’s James Bond). The Great War in England in 1897 in many ways can be seen as antithesis to The Battle of Dorking and even more flag waving, while Dorking depicts the post-invasion Britain in a pessimistic light The Great War depicts the invasion being turned back at the last minute with the help of Germany (who in the novel is depicted as a close ally of Britain against France and Russia) and even has Britain taking Algeria and Central Asia.
     
    https://tastethebloodofcinema.wordpress.com/2016/12/11/invasion-literature-paranoia-war-and-jingoism/
  69. Anonymous[422] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous

    Yang is nothing like Trump and Trump did not get elected because 4chan supported him (if anything he got elected in spite of it).
     
    Well said, I am also tired of the 4chan worship. Chan memes work on specific limited audience of neets, nazis and nihilists who are sitting all day at their computers. To normies, they are revolting, incomprehensible or both.
    Donald won because of 100,000 votes in few critical swing states, not because good people of Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania savor green frog aesthetic, but because Hillary was too lazy to campaign there. And, in the end, it did not mattered at all.

    Agreed. 4chan was a lot more mainstream just a few years ago, but now it has been pretty radicalized to the point that only total autists who have dropped out of society function there.

  70. @Daniel Chieh
    2006 China is a very different country from 2019 China. A lot of traditionalism that is being revived is larping, but I think a lot of traditionalism is that way - consistent larping is what makes it real.

    I’m not sure about other regions, but in Shanghai, since 2006, Buddhist temples have been one-by-one reconstructed and I notice a significant uptick in preserving the local dialect. These are all good trends that should keep going.

    And P.S. the picture that Karlin put up, with those wide sidewalks, 21st century-style anthill apartment blocks, and the mist, at first I thought this is a suburb of a major Chinese city. I’m very skeptical of any Sino-Russian alliance, but architecture and urban planning is something Russia should completely 100% outsource to the Chinese.

  71. @Anonymous
    Only a minority of NEETs from the /pol/ crowd seem to be genuinely into Yang. A lot of the support for Yang from /pol/ was ironic and trolling. Most of the /pol/ crowd is into racialist and nationalist politics, so Yang's appeal there as a non-white is ultimately quite limited.

    More normie conservatives and Republicans have a knee-jerk hostile attitude towards UBI and regard it as "socialism", so Yang can't really draw much support from those quarters.

    On the Left, quite a few Bernie supporters and socialists have a hostile view of UBI and regard it as a capitalist Trojan Horse whose aim is to reduce or eliminate the welfare state and the socialized economy. While the rest of the Democratic base tends to be those who largely benefit from current social programs, and thus won't get very enthused about something like UBI.

    Ultimately, there's not much of a base for Yang and the UBI to succeed. America is simply too large and diverse, and thus politics is very spiteful and zero-sum. When Yang was getting some press a couple months, many liberals were reflexively wary of him because of Yang's popularity among some quarters of the alt-right. At the same time, he doesn't appeal to much of the right because he's non-white. And among many leftists, he's a capitalist and UBI is bad for socialism, while for regular conservatives, UBI is socialism.

    I thought that the right likes “model minority” Asians? Also, didn’t some alt-right guys previously date Asian women?

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    I thought that the right likes “model minority” Asians?
     
    Their high assimilation levels are often used as proof that "white supremacy" does not extend to all facets of life in America, but I don't think that's a sign of any great affection. My impression is that the alt-right don't really have strong feelings about Asians one way or the other.

    Also, didn’t some alt-right guys previously date Asian women?
     
    An Asian girlfriend is standard issue for awkward white nerds from bourgeois backgrounds, regardless of political affiliation.
  72. @Anatoly Karlin
    UBI is not socialism, let alone "plain old" socialism.

    I no longer think Yang will finish in the Top Three (though I will be happy to be pleasantly surprised). Yang has rejected /pol/'s memetic offerings, swapping out the cool Yang Yacht aesthetic for his gay "Math" hat instead. His Tweets are either too Big Brained to excite the masses, too edgy to mark him out as a safe bland choice like Kamala, not edgy enough to draw the mass attention and outrage that Trump so masterfully provokes. Sad to say but he's too much of a Chinese robot to make it in US politics.

    He could run as an independent in the general election in 2020 if he’ll lose the Democratic primaries, no? That should get him and his ideas some additional attention.

  73. @Thulean Friend
    Youtube just did a giant purge. A huge amount of channels got wiped. They also instituted new rules, effectively banning any discussion on gender differences, race/IQ etc. I guess this was coming but no more "3 strikes and you're out" stuff. Just instabanned/purged huge amounts of stuff and it will likely stay that way.

    All of this will be defended by the same people who pooh-pooh China for being a totalitarian society. It's amazing that I got to experience a relatively free internet in my youth where there was true anonymity and you could watch and write anything.

    Seems weird that Steven Crowder was demonetised along with Red Ice, Luke Ford, Sellner, and Allsup. I thought Crowder was just the usual Israel Firster-Socialism Sucks conservatardism. This would suggest its going well beyond ‘edgy’ channels.

  74. @Anatoly Karlin
    Yes, certainly big if true.

    I mentioned that link btw: "*rejuvenation* Mice lifespan doubled."

    How long do you think before we are able to successfully rejuvenate humans?

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    I have no idea, but Aubrey de Grey is getting more optimistic: https://www.unz.com/akarlin/aubrey-de-grey-getting-more-optimistic-on-life-extension/
  75. @AP

    Insomniac Resurrected: Facebook Hires a Neonazi As Its Public Policy Manager in Ukraine.
     
    Svoboda Party are not neo-Nazis, so the claim is b.s. They are right-wing like the Austrian Freedom Party.

    The major neo-Nazis in Ukraine are from Azov. I was expecting her to be from there, but instead - Svoboda.

    Svoboda Party are not neo-Nazis, so the claim is b.s. They are right-wing like the Austrian Freedom Party.

    Did the Austrian Freedom Party’s leader previously do a Nazi salute like Tyahnybok did?

    • Replies: @AP
    You mean like Hillary Clinton?

    http://www.thedailyrash.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Hillary-salute-2.jpg

    Clearly she was a Nazi. And the Democratic Party is the Party of Segregation and Jim Crow. So Bernie is a neo-Segregatonist.
  76. Anonymous[422] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    From what I read of Yang's website, he is some kind of technocratic futurist with a platform that sounds like it was constructed by the readership of Slate Star Codex? Good luck. We like simple slogans ("Build the wall") and simple philosopgies ("Government bad!" "Environment good!"). Yang is nothing like Trump and Trump did not get elected because 4chan supported him (if anything he got elected in spite of it).

    Somebody like Yang has 0 chance of making any sort of splash in American politics. He should try his luck in Finland or some place like that.

    Yang may not win this year, but he isn’t going anywhere either.

    He is too right about too many things, even if he does not go anywhere in 2020 he will be primed to win the next election cycle.

  77. anonymous[171] • Disclaimer says:
    @Abelard Lindsey
    Maybe. The next few decades ought to tell whether they culturally recover from Maoism or not. A lot of it depends on how much of the books and other records of traditional culture survived the purges of the cultural revolution as well as how well the people who lived through it are able to overcome the psychological trauma of that experience such that they are able to teach their kids or grandkids the nuances of traditional culture.

    My impression was that traditional culture was pretty much extinct during my travels their in '06. That, and other people telling me the same thing, is what prompted my comment about modern China having the "sterility" of a science fiction setting

    Things may have slowly recovered since then.

    Stalinism pretty much destroyed rural Russian culture.

    Stalinism pretty much destroyed rural Russian culture.

    It is modernity, not communism. Communism was just accelerated modernity, doing in few years what took centuries elsewhere.
    Is there any “traditional rural culture” in developed countries that never had communism? No. It survives, at best, as cosplay and tourist show.
    Does anyone misses it? No. Not even the most hardcore nationalist folks look like this any more.

  78. @Anatoly Karlin
    Trump was running against a uniquely unpopular and uncharismatic candidate in 2016.

    If he runs against somebody like Biden or Sanders then he is toast. Both of them are leading by 10% points in Pennsylvania ffs!

    To be fair, though, in 1988, Dukakis led in the polls by double-digits right up into the summer of 1988 but then ended up losing to Bush Sr. by several percentage in the popular vote and by a landslide in the electoral college. For that matter, Jimmy Carter had a 33 point lead over Ford early on in 1976 but only ended up winning by a measly 2%.

  79. @ImmortalRationalist
    The only way I see Trump winning in 2020 is a scenario where the Dems can't help but shoot themselves in the foot again and nominate an unpopular candidate, and Trump boomers his way to victory. I would guesstimate that Trump has a ~45% chance of getting reelected.

    and nominate an unpopular candidate,

    Such as?

  80. @neutral
    I must also add that even if the alt right somehow still supported Trump, the demographic flood of non whites means that the white votes are simply not enough any more. Trump clearly did not care about this fact, as he believes that somehow sucking up to Israel and tax cuts are going to win him more votes. Trump is toast.

    Steve Sailer previously said that the GOP can remain competitive in US national elections up to the 2050s if it will get one out of every three white Obama voters to vote for it.

  81. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    TL;DR summary: The Ukraine is poor man's Arkansas.

    https://i.ibb.co/wh3Z6Z0/Kenya.png

    Fun anecdote: In Kentucky decades ago, it was a joke that the state motto was, "Thank God for Arkansas!" because Arkansas was the only thing keeping Kentucky from being "50th out of 50" in most American state stats. (However, both states have improved somewhat and it is now Mississippi or West Virginia that is 50th in most categories)

    Big difference: Arkansas has much better cultural products than the Ukraine.

    Examples of truly fine Arkansas cultural products:

    - Patrick Claiborne, brave Civil War Confederate general [born in Ireland]
    - Johnny Cash, genius musician - very underrated, in fact, for his creative skill
    - Levon Helm, rock and roll legend
    - The marvelous actor (and musician) and total nutjob, Billy Bob Thornton
    - My personal favorite ...... Charles Portis, best known for writing 'True Grit.' His novel 'Dog of the South' is also fantastic. Porthis had marvelous skill at capturing the local dialect and attitude of the south-central U.S. and turning it into a compelling element of good literature.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y492Y7k_Sc

    The following song about Arkansas is a fine one, well-written, song by two men in funny 1970s American clothes:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czF0coM2DMk

    Biggest similarity: Arkansas and the Ukraine both tend to produce ham-fisted and highly corrupt fake populist politicians, such as Huckabee and Clinton.

    Big difference: Arkansas has much better cultural products than the Ukraine.

    Arkansas also has much more blacks (and non-whites in general) than Ukraine has.

  82. @ImmortalRationalist
    In the long term future, do you think that climate change could have a dysgenic effect on intelligence? This could be true even after the Age of Malthusian Industrialism, when Malthusian conditions once again raise IQs through Clark-Unz selection. Since the "ice people" are responsible for the vast majority of scientific advancement today, a hotter climate could mean that the selection pressures created by the previously cold climate that raised IQs would no longer exist. Thus, the global north may in the long run develop a lower equilibrium IQ, on par with that of tropical regions today.

    the selection pressures created by the previously cold climate that raised IQs

    don’t exist anymore, not matter what. We are way too technologically advanced and have been for a long time. Clark’s replacement of the lower class by the middle class has little to do with cold winters. You need malthusian conditions for that and those are largely independent of temperature.

  83. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    TL;DR summary: The Ukraine is poor man's Arkansas.

    https://i.ibb.co/wh3Z6Z0/Kenya.png

    Fun anecdote: In Kentucky decades ago, it was a joke that the state motto was, "Thank God for Arkansas!" because Arkansas was the only thing keeping Kentucky from being "50th out of 50" in most American state stats. (However, both states have improved somewhat and it is now Mississippi or West Virginia that is 50th in most categories)

    Big difference: Arkansas has much better cultural products than the Ukraine.

    Examples of truly fine Arkansas cultural products:

    - Patrick Claiborne, brave Civil War Confederate general [born in Ireland]
    - Johnny Cash, genius musician - very underrated, in fact, for his creative skill
    - Levon Helm, rock and roll legend
    - The marvelous actor (and musician) and total nutjob, Billy Bob Thornton
    - My personal favorite ...... Charles Portis, best known for writing 'True Grit.' His novel 'Dog of the South' is also fantastic. Porthis had marvelous skill at capturing the local dialect and attitude of the south-central U.S. and turning it into a compelling element of good literature.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y492Y7k_Sc

    The following song about Arkansas is a fine one, well-written, song by two men in funny 1970s American clothes:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czF0coM2DMk

    Biggest similarity: Arkansas and the Ukraine both tend to produce ham-fisted and highly corrupt fake populist politicians, such as Huckabee and Clinton.

    Arkansas has much better cultural products than the Ukraine.

    LOL.

    Gogol and horilka already beat them all.

    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    Johnny Cash > Gogol

    I will fight you.

    And the idea that some Slavic trash like horilka could be better than proper American sugar mash moonshine - LOL. Get lost, Ukie. The only Slavic booze I'd consider taking over American homemade booze is rakija from the Balkans.

  84. @Abelard Lindsey
    Rodney Brooks is right that autonomous cars will be a long time in coming. I don't expect them for another 20 years. When they do come, it will include the automation being built into the roads as well as the cars, with autonomous freeway driving (these are called "slaveways" in "Queen of Angels") coming first.

    I think we're already headed into another "AI winter" and, as someone noted before, with Moore's Law hitting what appears to be a hard limit.

    Moore’s law will not be particularly relevant for AI accelerators, at least not for the next one or two decades. I expect things to be massively scaled in the next decade, see for example OpenAI’s plans. Then either very impressive stuff will happen or there might actually be an AI winter.

    But right now any AI winter is still far away. The adoption phase of stuff that works has only just started. And if anything, the yearly break throughs are getting more impressive.

    • Replies: @Abelard Lindsey
    I disagree. The scaling of semiconductor devices has been the primary driver of computational improvements. All of the current AI work is based on a single development, multi-layered neuro-nets (AKA "deep" learning), which were invented in 1986. 1986 to 1988 saw some talk about this before it was shelved simply because computational power at the time was not sufficient to do any work with it. Computational power improved due to Moore's Law so that by 2012, people started working in deep learning again. Deep learning is a "one time" jump in computing performance. Any new technology, comparable to deep learning in 1986, might bear fruit around 2040 or so. I have not heard of any such thing. That, and that Moore's Law is hitting the hard limit at the 5 nm regime, means that we really are entering an AI winter in the next couple of years.

    I would say forget about computation and focus on bio-engineering. Bio-engineering is where all of the action will be in this century.
  85. @Thulean Friend
    https://www.euronews.com/2019/06/05/eu-to-start-infringement-procedure-against-italy-paper

    The EU is hellbent on being as unpopular as possible. Italexit is most likely the next contender after Brexit. Only this will be far messier - Italy is far more deeply integrated into the eurozone's financial core. It has 1 trillion in government debt - all in euros. Its banks are massively indebted to German banks in particular.

    More than anything, this is the biggest gift that Salvini could ask for. Lega can go from ~30-35% to Orbanquese ~50% if this goes through and sustains itself over a period of years.

    Top kek. I can’t wait for the right-wing “anti-EU” fiasco that would perfectly mirror Syriza. How do you like Brexit so far? Exiting requires money and balls, and Italy is somewhat short on both.

    You can’t fart in Italy without making an EU flag wave. All those morons who watched decades of Merkel – French Guy meetings that decided their future, and in which they had no say, will come out of their ratholes to claim that Italy needs Europe. Again, we’ll have a replay of Greece’s provincial complexes, squared.

  86. @Mr. XYZ

    Svoboda Party are not neo-Nazis, so the claim is b.s. They are right-wing like the Austrian Freedom Party.
     
    Did the Austrian Freedom Party's leader previously do a Nazi salute like Tyahnybok did?

    You mean like Hillary Clinton?

    Clearly she was a Nazi. And the Democratic Party is the Party of Segregation and Jim Crow. So Bernie is a neo-Segregatonist.

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    What was the context of Hillary's and Tyahnybok's salutes, though? Was it the same?

    As for the Democrats being a party of segregationists, that was certainly true historically, but this began to change in the late 20th century and nowadays the lion's share of Southern Whites are Republicans. Interestingly enough, even back in 1954, a majority of the SCOTUS Justices that struck down school segregation were appointed by Democratic US Presidents!

  87. Great timing, AK! Today, there’s a big purge on YT. Vikernes was deleted. Ramzpaul whined about he being next. Some of the EDM mixes I play a lot were deleted, but thanks to google (surprisingly), I found most of them mirrored on OK.ru. OK also has an insane amount of pirated movies.

    So, if you are working on a Russian-language vlog, how could YT be better than OK or VK? Ramzpaul’s head is too small to get around the fact that he should more to a CIA-free alternative, but why would you bother?

    • Replies: @EldnahYm
    Vikernes has already created another channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnJ3dbo5ur8gYEo3ImOUOpg
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    Three big reasons:

    1. I have been told that YouTube is pretty the much the only place to go if you're looking to do any serious monetization.

    2. Unfortunately, almost everyone who counts is on YouTube. People browse videos there, they get referred to other videos on the same platform, so you get subscribers a lot faster than you would on another platform that's used by far fewer people.

    3. Even after the partial decriminalization of Article 282, producing Russian nationalist or tangential content on Russian platforms remains a rather bad idea.
  88. @reiner Tor
    God sent you a sign not to engage in the stupid medium of video and vlogging, and instead stick to blogging. He has already sent AaronB and Dmitry to show His dissatisfaction, later on further disasters are to befall you, unless you repent and give up your heretical plans.

  89. @Mr. XYZ
    How long do you think before we are able to successfully rejuvenate humans?

    I have no idea, but Aubrey de Grey is getting more optimistic: https://www.unz.com/akarlin/aubrey-de-grey-getting-more-optimistic-on-life-extension/

    • Replies: @JL

    Aubrey de Grey
     
    I think he's coming to Moscow in a couple of weeks.
  90. @Dacian Julien Soros
    Great timing, AK! Today, there's a big purge on YT. Vikernes was deleted. Ramzpaul whined about he being next. Some of the EDM mixes I play a lot were deleted, but thanks to google (surprisingly), I found most of them mirrored on OK.ru. OK also has an insane amount of pirated movies.

    So, if you are working on a Russian-language vlog, how could YT be better than OK or VK? Ramzpaul's head is too small to get around the fact that he should more to a CIA-free alternative, but why would you bother?

    Vikernes has already created another channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnJ3dbo5ur8gYEo3ImOUOpg

  91. @Dacian Julien Soros
    Great timing, AK! Today, there's a big purge on YT. Vikernes was deleted. Ramzpaul whined about he being next. Some of the EDM mixes I play a lot were deleted, but thanks to google (surprisingly), I found most of them mirrored on OK.ru. OK also has an insane amount of pirated movies.

    So, if you are working on a Russian-language vlog, how could YT be better than OK or VK? Ramzpaul's head is too small to get around the fact that he should more to a CIA-free alternative, but why would you bother?

    Three big reasons:

    1. I have been told that YouTube is pretty the much the only place to go if you’re looking to do any serious monetization.

    2. Unfortunately, almost everyone who counts is on YouTube. People browse videos there, they get referred to other videos on the same platform, so you get subscribers a lot faster than you would on another platform that’s used by far fewer people.

    3. Even after the partial decriminalization of Article 282, producing Russian nationalist or tangential content on Russian platforms remains a rather bad idea.

    • Replies: @Dacian Julien Soros
    Are Russian YT creators paid anything? Romanian ads pay shit, and we are not subject to sanctions.

    I suspect (or maybe I read somewhere) that Russian YT uploads are censored by a team in Ukraine, which means your videos will be deleted before you finish uploading them.

    Would a Chinese YT clone be more resistant to censorship in your case?
  92. @yakushimaru
    It goes deeper than that. Some three decades of Mao is traumatic but nothing that China cannot recover from. There were other traumas in China's long history. For example, the Mongol thoroughly crushed China, for awhile.

    An interesting and relevant episode in Chinese history is the establishment of Tang Dynasty. The northern foreingers, basically, invaded and drove the Han to the south, but later on it's the northerners who became Tang and unified China again.

    The point is, I guess, that, for example, people in Taiwan only has Taiwan in mind, while people in heartland of China has entire China in mind. And the history and traditions are always in the books. Gradually they will be picked up again albeit in transitioned forms. When opportunities present itself, a unified China will come about again.

    The authenticity of tradition in Taiwan is, and can only be, skin deep, for good or bad.

    If traditionalism is so wonderful, why does is not correlate with (and foster) the virtues of property rights, objective rule of law, and transparent financial markets? Clearly these are desirable things, no?

    • Replies: @yakushimaru
    You mean China's past does not have property rights? Objective rule of law? And some level of finan markets?

    Those were obviously not as developed as they are today ...

    China's past was not savage.

    That aside, I am not trying to argue that Old way is the best way ...
    , @yakushimaru
    Culture is not those things that you can teach a foreigner or an actor in a series of lessons. Let me tell a crude example. Say, one can teach an actor to play the son of one's mother but that is different. The actor is only acting.

    As said, a lot of tradtion is just LARPing, esp when the said culture is recovering. Many things on the surface can look shallow and even silly. But, again, continue the somewhat crude example, the son is reconnecting with his mother, his acts might not look graceful, comparing to that of a talented actor acting as a son, but, I think it's not that hard to see the difference.

    Regarding Taiwan's authentic Chineseness. Taiwan can only be authentic when they found authentic Taiwanness. If that's not a thing, then there's only fake.
    , @notanon
    traditionalism does correlate with
    - property rights (for and among the elite)
    - objective rule of law (for and among the elite)
    - no financial markets yet

    traditionalism takes time to evolve so for those aspects of traditionalism to evolve the material conditions have to exist first.
  93. @Anatoly Karlin
    Three big reasons:

    1. I have been told that YouTube is pretty the much the only place to go if you're looking to do any serious monetization.

    2. Unfortunately, almost everyone who counts is on YouTube. People browse videos there, they get referred to other videos on the same platform, so you get subscribers a lot faster than you would on another platform that's used by far fewer people.

    3. Even after the partial decriminalization of Article 282, producing Russian nationalist or tangential content on Russian platforms remains a rather bad idea.

    Are Russian YT creators paid anything? Romanian ads pay shit, and we are not subject to sanctions.

    I suspect (or maybe I read somewhere) that Russian YT uploads are censored by a team in Ukraine, which means your videos will be deleted before you finish uploading them.

    Would a Chinese YT clone be more resistant to censorship in your case?

  94. @AP
    You mean like Hillary Clinton?

    http://www.thedailyrash.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Hillary-salute-2.jpg

    Clearly she was a Nazi. And the Democratic Party is the Party of Segregation and Jim Crow. So Bernie is a neo-Segregatonist.

    What was the context of Hillary’s and Tyahnybok’s salutes, though? Was it the same?

    As for the Democrats being a party of segregationists, that was certainly true historically, but this began to change in the late 20th century and nowadays the lion’s share of Southern Whites are Republicans. Interestingly enough, even back in 1954, a majority of the SCOTUS Justices that struck down school segregation were appointed by Democratic US Presidents!

    • Replies: @AP

    What was the context of Hillary’s and Tyahnybok’s salutes, though? Was it the same?
     
    Almost certainly. Neither one goes around heiling Hitler.
  95. AK, I look forward to all your writings and hope that you will indulge your American fans with regular English-language videos too.

    I’ll be glad if our children want to learn Russian, but I’m not seriously learning Russian at this point in life 😉 It’s not super-difficult for adult English-speaking novices like Mandarin or Japanese, but it ain’t nice easy, closely-related Spanish or French, either.

  96. Anonymous[339] • Disclaimer says:
    @Athletic and Whitesplosive
    Of course he didn't get elected due solely to the chans, but I think it's going too far to completely discount them (along with the contribution of other somewhat fringe websites). You may find them juvenile (and you may often be right), but funny memes really do have influence on people, not least of which is the ability to generate enthusiasm and drive up turnout for your own side. You can even see how the best memes leak into common use on more "normie" sites. Things like "cuck" and "snowflake" started as fringe right-wing memes but are now common parlance on any site where the left and right clash heads.

    There's a reason propaganda exists, and having a reasonably large pool of semi-talented people willing to make funny image macros in support of you and spam them on more mainstream sites for free seems to me like a non negligible asset.

    I like 4chan but the zeitgeist there is so consciously weird and fringy that it really limits the mass appeal. r/The_Donald/ was probably the best internet weapon Trump had; they are good at generating the sort of PG-13, “worksafe” stuff that ordinary people would find interesting/amusing and be likely to forward to their friends. 4chan memes are mostly just a weird melange anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, crude racism, misogyny, homophobia and anime.

  97. Well this could be a little off the very serious topics I’ve seen discussed but did anyone get a look at that story out of London. While Trump is there visiting with the Queen there was a demonstration against him (some are saying it was much smaller than the media tried to make it seem but that’s another issue). Anyway they were flying that giant “Baby Trump” balloon and a middle aged woman comes by screams at the demonstrators that they are all a disgrace and then stabs the balloon with a pair of scissors…

    OMG the melee that follows with the woman screaming and carrying on as they arrest her and the demonstrators in the background as the balloons deflates. You couldn’t make this stuff up…

    Trump cannot help himself this kind of stuff just follows him wherever he goes!!!

    Off topic his wife, Melanie looked gorgeous everywhere she appeared and I would say put to shame the other royal ladies even with all their crown jewels and tiaras…

    I get men aren’t that interest in this kind of stuff, but it was interesting as hell to me!

  98. Anonymous[339] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr. XYZ
    I thought that the right likes "model minority" Asians? Also, didn't some alt-right guys previously date Asian women?

    I thought that the right likes “model minority” Asians?

    Their high assimilation levels are often used as proof that “white supremacy” does not extend to all facets of life in America, but I don’t think that’s a sign of any great affection. My impression is that the alt-right don’t really have strong feelings about Asians one way or the other.

    Also, didn’t some alt-right guys previously date Asian women?

    An Asian girlfriend is standard issue for awkward white nerds from bourgeois backgrounds, regardless of political affiliation.

  99. @anon
    This is ordinary diplomacy in action - yesterday's enemy is today's friend and vice versa. Nothing new under the sun.
    The war is over, for 75 years, time to move on. Were the British in 19th century still hating French and looking for Napoleon under every bed in 1890?

    Were the British in 19th century still hating French and looking for Napoleon under every bed in 1890?

    You are not that far off.

    For much of the 1890s most examples of Invasion Literature focused on the possibility of French invasion rather than German, at this point in history Anglo-French relations had reached a low point not helped by the fact the French and Russians had established an alliance (Russia had been a rival of Britain for many years in Central Asia in particular). The most prolific of the Invasion Literature writers was William Le Queux who’s first novel The Great War in England in 1897 (1894) is an important work in the genre (Le Queux’s agent character “Duckworth Drew” is considered to be a possible influence on Ian Fleming’s James Bond). The Great War in England in 1897 in many ways can be seen as antithesis to The Battle of Dorking and even more flag waving, while Dorking depicts the post-invasion Britain in a pessimistic light The Great War depicts the invasion being turned back at the last minute with the help of Germany (who in the novel is depicted as a close ally of Britain against France and Russia) and even has Britain taking Algeria and Central Asia.

    https://tastethebloodofcinema.wordpress.com/2016/12/11/invasion-literature-paranoia-war-and-jingoism/

  100. @Abelard Lindsey
    If traditionalism is so wonderful, why does is not correlate with (and foster) the virtues of property rights, objective rule of law, and transparent financial markets? Clearly these are desirable things, no?

    You mean China’s past does not have property rights? Objective rule of law? And some level of finan markets?

    Those were obviously not as developed as they are today …

    China’s past was not savage.

    That aside, I am not trying to argue that Old way is the best way …

  101. Washington Examiner WW II Spin

    Re: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/hitlers-armies-humiliated-you-russian-spokeswoman-mocked-for-downplaying-d-day

    If quoted accurately in full context, the Russian government spokesperson in question would’ve been better off not commenting on the D-Day landing. Perhaps she was replying to a claim belittling the Soviet war effort, relative to the D-Day landing? If so, then shame on the author of the above linked piece. Regardless, there’s room for follow-up.

    The D-Day landing played an important role for sure. Notwithstanding, it’s fair to say that the Nazi defeat was going to happen without the D-Day landing. In that scenario, the eventual Nazi defeat would’ve taken longer. Keep in mind that at the time of the D-Day landing, it had become abundantly clear that the Nazis were on the run in the East, after having incurred devastating defeats.

    The clear bulk of the fighting against the Nazis was done on the part of the USSR. Well educated and relatively objective enough mass media folks should be able to acknowledge this point, regardless of the negative aspects of the USSR.

    In the above linked Washington Examiner article, the noted replies to the Russian government spokesperson are cheesy. Allied aid to the USSR in the form of trucks and food made the Soviet war effort easier. Put mildly, it’s a stretch to say that the USSR wouldn’t have been victorious without that aid. Much of the Allied aid reached the Soviets when it had become clear that the Nazis weren’t in the long run going to defeat the USSR. By the time of the D-Day landing, the Nazis were very much lacking in resources.

    Bringing up Molotov-Ribbentrop (M-R) as an “alliance” is misleading, when not noting that it was a “non-aggression pact”, as opposed to a diplomatically worded “alliance” or “treaty of friendship”. M-R was in answer to the West’s willingness to let Hitler take Czechoslovakia. With Western (notably French)help, the Soviets offered to defend Czechoslovakia. That offer was refused, as some in the West had openly hoped for a Nazi-Soviet war with the West left out.

    Stalin understood Machiavellian geopolitics, while being aware that in 1938, Poland and Hungary followed Nazi Germany in the taking of Czechoslovak territory. BTW, Poland and Nazi Germany had signed a non-aggression pact in 1934.

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome


    Bringing up Molotov-Ribbentrop (M-R) as an “alliance” is misleading

     

    What about the part to invade Poland from opposite sides and meet in the middle?
    , @Hippopotamusdrome


    By the time of the D-Day landing, the Nazis were very much lacking in resources

     

    LOL. Maybe because of the naval blockade and the fleets of strategic bombers bombing oil refineries, factories and cities?
    , @Kent Nationalist
    It seems like an extremely counterproductive thing to say for a Foreign Affairs spokeswoman.
  102. @Abelard Lindsey
    If traditionalism is so wonderful, why does is not correlate with (and foster) the virtues of property rights, objective rule of law, and transparent financial markets? Clearly these are desirable things, no?

    Culture is not those things that you can teach a foreigner or an actor in a series of lessons. Let me tell a crude example. Say, one can teach an actor to play the son of one’s mother but that is different. The actor is only acting.

    As said, a lot of tradtion is just LARPing, esp when the said culture is recovering. Many things on the surface can look shallow and even silly. But, again, continue the somewhat crude example, the son is reconnecting with his mother, his acts might not look graceful, comparing to that of a talented actor acting as a son, but, I think it’s not that hard to see the difference.

    Regarding Taiwan’s authentic Chineseness. Taiwan can only be authentic when they found authentic Taiwanness. If that’s not a thing, then there’s only fake.

    • Replies: @Abelard Lindsey
    LARPing is a form of acting.
  103. @Thomm

    Getting the nomination will be the hard part,
     
    Of course. The primary debates are starting friggin' 16+ months before the actual election.

    beating Trump will be no trouble at all.
     

     I disagree. Trump is doing fine. Outside of the most fringe Nationalist-Leftists, no one who liked Trump in late 2016 dislikes him now, but many doubters have been won over. He might had 5-8 points to his previous results with the black, Hispanic, and Asian vote. Democrats are terrified of even a mild 'Blexit' for a reason.

    "It is the Economy, stupid." Even if a recession starts now, people realize that it is in spite of Trump, not because of him.

    Plenty of ordinary people have become disappointed by Trump:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/06/02/laid-off-gm-workers-in-ohio-fed-up-with-ruling-class-nobody-has-our-backs/

    “Even if a recession starts now, people realize that it is in spite of Trump, not because of him.”

    No. The average person has little understanding of how the economy works and overestimates the power of the President. He’s not going to blame it on the Federal Reserve because he doesn’t know what the Federal Reserve is. The President will be blamed, particularly if he spent the past few years bragging about how well the economy was doing. At least Obama could claim it was a recession he inherited.

  104. Yee says:

    “Its Taiwan that seems to have a more authentic traditional Chinese culture. ”

    LOL… Taiwan “authentic traditional Chinese culture”? Please—

    They’re just Westernized Chinese, trying hard to be the “honorary White”. They swallow everything the West push without question. It’s the same thing as Europeans adopting Islam culture… Perhaps Europeans are happy to see that?

    As for the issue of Mao destroyed traditional Chinese culture, how much “authentic culture” of their ancestors are the Europeans keeping these days?

    • Replies: @AquariusAnon
    Taiwan is much less western than you'd expect. English levels are surprisingly low, and the gay DPP does not represent what society is actually like: As I've repeated multiple times, the average Taiwanese on the streets don't care about gay rights and prefer the status quo geopolitically. Over 1 million live/work on the Mainland.

    Few are trying to be honorary white in Taiwan. In fact, try being a white guy walking down the street with an Asian girlfriend. There has been multiple incidences of said white guy facing significant hostilities from young, millennial locals. And that's in Taipei. The svidomy government with their Clown World laws was voted in only because the KMT failed to turn around the economy. Nobody wants svidomy like having English and Japanese as official languages, cutting off ties to the Mainland, gay marriage, or the silly recycling or mandatory rest laws.

    On gay marriage in Taiwan: It was voted down in a landslide by 72% of the population. Not long afterwards, all the major cities ended up having pro-China KMT mayors, even in the DPP stronghold Kaohsiung. And the svidomy government just shot itself in the foot by ignoring a referendum that it tabled itself. Needless to say, Terry Gou will likely be the next leader of Taiwan after all of this.

    The way you argue really remind me of wumaos: Instead of addressing the current issue at hand, you immediately move goalposts.
  105. anon[113] • Disclaimer says:

    About Chinese culture: what you think about conspiracy theory that the famous terracotta army is fake?
    TL;DR: after Cultural Revolution, Chinese authorities wanted attract tourists to make money, and when they had no more actual historical artifacts, they made up some.

    Sources here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3ATerracotta_Army#The_statues_are_a_fake

    https://web.archive.org/web/20170331094535/http://www.minnieandmurray.com/are-the-terracotta-warriors-for-real/

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Really rather dumb thing to fake, so Occam's Razor applies. Faking gigantic ships or presumed evidence of high technology would be easier and more in line with Chinese social myth.
    , @Hippopotamusdrome


    conspiracy theory that the famous terracotta army is fake?

     

    German museum admits terracotta warriors are fakes

    All China history is fake. They really 'jump the shark' when it comes to Chinese invention claims.


    wikipedia: List of Chinese inventions

    multistage rocket and rocket bombs with aerodynamic wings and explosive payloads

    large mechanical puppet theaters driven by waterwheels and carriage wheels and wine-serving automatons driven by paddle wheel boats

     

    Really?!

    You name it, China invented it just a few hundred years before Europe. Unfortunately, China had stagnation and Europeans came back at them with the improved Mk III models of everything. Yeah, that's the ticket.

    Printing press...no.
    Cannon...no.
    Giant clock...no.
    Dragon seismograph...no.
    etc...

    They would try to claim the same about Africa, but no one would believe it. Chinese are smart enough that it is at least plausable.
  106. @Yee
    "Its Taiwan that seems to have a more authentic traditional Chinese culture. "

    LOL... Taiwan "authentic traditional Chinese culture"? Please---

    They're just Westernized Chinese, trying hard to be the "honorary White". They swallow everything the West push without question. It's the same thing as Europeans adopting Islam culture... Perhaps Europeans are happy to see that?

    As for the issue of Mao destroyed traditional Chinese culture, how much "authentic culture" of their ancestors are the Europeans keeping these days?

    Taiwan is much less western than you’d expect. English levels are surprisingly low, and the gay DPP does not represent what society is actually like: As I’ve repeated multiple times, the average Taiwanese on the streets don’t care about gay rights and prefer the status quo geopolitically. Over 1 million live/work on the Mainland.

    Few are trying to be honorary white in Taiwan. In fact, try being a white guy walking down the street with an Asian girlfriend. There has been multiple incidences of said white guy facing significant hostilities from young, millennial locals. And that’s in Taipei. The svidomy government with their Clown World laws was voted in only because the KMT failed to turn around the economy. Nobody wants svidomy like having English and Japanese as official languages, cutting off ties to the Mainland, gay marriage, or the silly recycling or mandatory rest laws.

    On gay marriage in Taiwan: It was voted down in a landslide by 72% of the population. Not long afterwards, all the major cities ended up having pro-China KMT mayors, even in the DPP stronghold Kaohsiung. And the svidomy government just shot itself in the foot by ignoring a referendum that it tabled itself. Needless to say, Terry Gou will likely be the next leader of Taiwan after all of this.

    The way you argue really remind me of wumaos: Instead of addressing the current issue at hand, you immediately move goalposts.

    • Agree: utu
  107. Yee says:

    “Instead of addressing the current issue at hand, you immediately move goalposts.”

    I see a double standard when Westerners “addressing issue of China”…

    Labelling me “wumao” doesn’t help your case. I’m a volunteer for free, whilst you smell suspicious like an “American Cent”. There’re plenty of those on Chinese Internets, their talk points are the same as yours… Either you’re dumb enough to adopt their view or you’re paid.

  108. @anon
    About Chinese culture: what you think about conspiracy theory that the famous terracotta army is fake?
    TL;DR: after Cultural Revolution, Chinese authorities wanted attract tourists to make money, and when they had no more actual historical artifacts, they made up some.

    Sources here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3ATerracotta_Army#The_statues_are_a_fake

    https://web.archive.org/web/20170331094535/http://www.minnieandmurray.com/are-the-terracotta-warriors-for-real/

    Really rather dumb thing to fake, so Occam’s Razor applies. Faking gigantic ships or presumed evidence of high technology would be easier and more in line with Chinese social myth.

  109. @Mr. XYZ
    What was the context of Hillary's and Tyahnybok's salutes, though? Was it the same?

    As for the Democrats being a party of segregationists, that was certainly true historically, but this began to change in the late 20th century and nowadays the lion's share of Southern Whites are Republicans. Interestingly enough, even back in 1954, a majority of the SCOTUS Justices that struck down school segregation were appointed by Democratic US Presidents!

    What was the context of Hillary’s and Tyahnybok’s salutes, though? Was it the same?

    Almost certainly. Neither one goes around heiling Hitler.

  110. For me and not for thee

    • Agree: Thulean Friend
    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    Extremely predictable yet entirely unsurprising to see his hypocrisy as a jewish supremacist.

    This is yet another perfect example of why allying with jews is always a dead end. Goyim never learn!

  111. anon[262] • Disclaimer says:

    “It is AK and others who think Trump will lose.”

    I think it depends on who his opponent is. I think someone like Kamala Harris is probably one of the more beatable opponents he’ll face: 1) she’s not seen as authentically black because she married a white male Jew; this will depress the black vote 2) she comes off as schoolmarmish and excessively feminist, which will depress the black male vote very slightly while also not inspiring women in general because she’s standoffish and she doesn’t have children 3) she’s just black enough to scare enough whites in swing states 4) she ingratiated herself with SWPLs by prosecuting poor minorities, including people who were late for court, and she bragged about it like a sociopath 5) she comes off as racist, which will lead a majority of white females to vote for Trump once again bc race politics > gender politics 6) she’s from California and the democrats already have a lock on that state, so there is no advantage there except popular vote turnout and the EC will still be a thing in 2020 7) it will be difficult for her to put an anti-war moderate like Gabbard or Yang on the ticket with her because, even though it would help her image with the public, it would alienate liberal interventionists.

    “Whites turned out in higher numbers and in greater percentages for Trump in the Rust Belt states that were previously part of the Blue Wall, in the hope that he would bring manufacturing jobs back to America, build the wall, etc.”

    Well, Trump is also an expert liar and deflection artist. I expect him to blame that all on the democrats and a lot of people will fall for it. Emotionalism > reason.

    • Agree: AP
  112. Anon[359] • Disclaimer says:

    “We suggest a new patch to the classical simulation argument, showing that we are likely simulated not by our own descendants, but by alien civilizations.”

    Perhaps. The earth has been revealed as being exceedingly rare in the cosmos, in contravention to the Copernican Principle – rare moon, rare star, possible rare composition, rare magnetic field, etc. I think the important thing is to ask under what context. Are aliens simulating habitable planets and the resultant life on such worlds or have they encountered a human probe in the distant future orbiting a dead earth and are trying to piece together its long dead civilization based on things found in that probe like DNA databases, music, history files, and pictures? Based on probability, I’d say the former.

    “Based on this, we provide classification of different possible simulations and we find that simpler, less expensive and one-person-centered simulations, resurrectional simulations, or simulations of the first artificial general intelligence’s (AGI’s) origin (singularity simulations) should dominate.”

    Perhaps in ways people don’t anticipate. Perhaps the only way to successfully create a friendly AI superintelligence is to test it in a simulation at reduced cognitive ability before assigning it a task on the outside world (allowing it to go full singularity). If so, the world may be a simulation created by humans in the late 21st or early 22nd centuries for the purpose of testing AIs based on human neural architecture. However, if this is true, they are in for a shock: humans may not be the good role models people think they are. People are prone to group think, they are irrational at times, and they come with all kinds of evolved psychological baggage (conditional use of violence, depravity, excessive emotionalism, and lying), so it may not be possible to create an evolved “good human AI” and then release it to the outside world and have it act as a paragon of virtue.

    Alternatively, they could manipulate the psychology of the AI in real time to get this paragon of virtue, but I would suspect that any AI programmed in a simulation to mimic a real person might also end up psychologically distressed if also given tasks/beliefs that don’t comport with reality: we want the machine to be a logical thinker but logic disproves most Leftist views; we want it to be moral but our own moral code is inconsistent; we want it to be nice but being nice might put it at a disadvantage* or have it turn into a fanatical moral crusader on the outside world; we want it to be rational but simultaneously think and act in irrational ways while also being friendly …

    *Williamson Syndrome: Suffers are generally nice, good people free of racial bias … but they tend to be taken advantage of by others as a result of their naivety, often through sexual abuse. Programming a “nice guy” AI, even if it’s smarter than humans, may make it too easy to manipulate or maybe it ends up damaged in some way.

    “Also, simulations which simulate the 21st century and global catastrophic risks are probable. We then explore whether the simulation could collapse or be terminated.”

    Unfortunately, we’re probably close to that point now unless the simulator is just going through the motions. Do they really need to simulate the exact circumstances when there is already enough written here on Unz to determine the causes and likely outcomes? I myself could model the next 30 years fairly accurately based on what I already know and my own fairly impressive track record (ex: I knew years ago that driverless cars would be a more difficult adoption than tech enthusiasts naively assumed; I’ve successfully predicted much of the political trends in the United States years or decades in advance; etc). If that is the case, imagine what a future civilization (or an AI) could do. So, why bother in the first place? Do we really need to endlessly simulate ancient Roman battles when just a few times (or perhaps even none at all) will do?

    “Most simulations must be terminated after they model the singularity or after they model a global catastrophe before the singularity.”

    Why? Maybe the point is to model what humans do AFTER the global catastrophe because they’re really just setting the stage for a cool video game like Fallout 19. Also, if the base universe has physical laws much different from our own (a faster speed of light), then our universe’s AI superintellignce birthed from the singularity may pale in intelligence to the base universe AI superintelligence. Maybe that’s what they want to study.

    “Undeniably observed glitches, but not philosophical speculations could result in simulation termination.”

    I don’t know if I agree with that either. I think a lot would depend upon the nature of the observed glitch. Gravity suddenly failing for 30 seconds would do the trick nicely as everyone sees it and such an occurrence violates all physical laws, but something small like a guy witnessing a bird falling through a concrete floor might not necessitate a shut down; after all, it would be a shame to shut down all this hard work over such a minor thing. There are two potential solutions to the small glitch issue: 1) humans naturally dismiss things like this anyway, so just ignore it if only a small number of people see it 2) program your NPCs to recognize the glitch but ignore it as inconsequential; this may be easier than you think as there are examples of this in the animal kingdom (parasitic wasp stings cockroach which disables fear response in prey, wasp lures the cockroach to its doom). Maybe a collection of NPCs see something they shouldn’t but then ignore it in response even though they consciously know there is an issue.

    “The simulation could collapse if it is overwhelmed by glitches.”

    Perhaps, but I find that unlikely. The world probably went through several beta tests before going live with human NPCs, so any encountered glitch should have been detected and patched long ago. The only way for humans to detect some kind of glitch might be to actively seek one out by doing something that would not have likely occurred naturally in a beta test without humans (i.e. force some kind of universal error correcting code to do something which keeps the universe stable in the wake of an unnaturally complicated experiment but also defies our understanding of physical laws, probability, or common sense — maybe that’s what Quantum Mechanics is, and you’ll notice that people just ignore the observed paradoxes as I noted above).

    “The Doomsday Argument in simulations implies termination soon.”

    Unfortunately, it might very well: Collapse of the US into despotism leading to war with China and Russia, perhaps. We are seeing that in slow motion now.

    “We conclude that all types of the most probable simulations except resurrectional simulations are prone to termination risks in a relatively short time frame of hundreds of years or less from now.”

    Perhaps not. They may simulate beyond the cataclysm. After all, assuming humans (0r perhaps even aliens) are doing the simulating, there could be lots of useful data collected on human behavior and psychology after societal breakdown. They’ve come this far, so why not keep going to see if anything useful turns up? Example: Spirit and Opportunity Mars rovers; both worked well beyond their intended date and were assigned all kinds of useful secondary missions after the primary was accomplished. In fact, humans may already be that secondary mission: the original purpose of the universe was to simulate a habitable rare earth but then something cool popped up – humans. “Let’s see what they do.”

  113. @Kent Nationalist
    https://twitter.com/yhazony/status/1136235318577913856

    For me and not for thee

    Extremely predictable yet entirely unsurprising to see his hypocrisy as a jewish supremacist.

    This is yet another perfect example of why allying with jews is always a dead end. Goyim never learn!

    • Replies: @AaronB
    Such shocking hypocrisy!

    Israel has black Jews, Indian Jews, Chinese Jews, blond haired blue eyed light skinned Jews, and swarthy black haired olive skinned Jews.

    Israel actually spent considerable time and resources, and risked intelligence assets and special army units, in airlifting black Jews from Ethiopia into Israel.

    Oh, the hypocrisy of that dastardly Hazony wanting racial purity for Israel vs his advocating a mere nation for America!

    But I do feel sorry for you whites - stripped off national traits by the Enlightenment, the only organizing principle you have left is the abstract one of "race".

    And you seem unable to intelligently study historically successful national entities and adapt their principles - captured as you are by maximalist Enlightenment thinking.

    Well, good luck with history's only known attempt to craft a civilization based entirely on race. The modern world is indeed a time of experiment.

  114. https://www.claremont.org/crb/article/hungary-and-the-future-of-europe/

    Decent background reporting by a sympathetic conservative journalist. The most important part is at the end:

    The Anglo-American journalist John O’Sullivan, who now heads the Danube Institute in Budapest, put the basic question of Hungarian politics best when he asked: “How will an Orbán government reconcile its resistance to governance by supra-national elites with its considerable dependence on European Union subsidies?” The question can be asked even more broadly. As corporations and political authority grow increasingly intermingled, maneuvering room narrows for politicians like Viktor Orbán. This is the way he sees it himself. “Although we’re convinced that we’re right factually and morally, and that we represent Europe’s interests, perhaps no prime minister and country has ever had a reputation in Western Europe which was as bad as mine and Hungary’s today,” he told a Budapest audience in late March. “Someone must come along with us, because we can hold out for a while, but we cannot hold out forever.”
    The period that began at Kötcse in 2015 is now moving towards either a resolution or an escalation, for Hungary and for Europe along with it.

    Either we will see political change in Western Europe or we will see CEE countries subject to massive pressure to the extent that they either crack or be forced out. I think weaker states like Poland will crack first because they are desperate for US support. Hungary is more geopolitically safe and has seen far more political consolidation.

    While there is a healthy HBD trend among Western nationalists, I think we are underestimating the extent to which neoliberal autocrats like Macron will seize the suppressive powers of the state to maintain control (see the brutalisation of the Yellow Vests and the massive denouncement of them in the MSM).

    As migration pressure amps up, popular will be suppressed. And this suppression will increasingly move into the media. The recent YouTube purges fits in this pattern, and these purges will intensify.

  115. JL says:
    @Swarthy Greek
    I think that the most important Russia news of the last week is the Gazprom dividend increase: ( https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/06/05/as-rumours-swirl-that-russias-gazprom-will-replace-its-chief-the-companys-value-keeps-growing-a65886 )
    The stoligarchs ( Rotenberg, Timchenko, Miller) seem to be on their way out and their assets are being reconsolidated. One can only dream of seeing Tsar Sechin out of the way to build a proper SOE run economy.

    Any opinion on this, ak?

    The stoligarchs ( Rotenberg, Timchenko, Miller) seem to be on their way out and their assets are being reconsolidated.

    I don’t think these guys are necessarily on their way out, they are just being weened off a couple of particularly lucrative teats in the name of reform and efficiency. It’s likely they’ll get paid well for selling what are otherwise almost worthless shell companies. The Rotenbergs, for example, unloaded Mostortrest onto the NPF after the Olympics, then bought it back a few years later for another round of infrastructure spending. Timchenko still has Novatek, a company that benefitted from literally tens of billions of dollars of free pipeline infrastructure that the government built just for them (The market values NVTK at an EV/EBITDA of 10 vs. GAZP’s 2-3 because it’s so much more “efficient”, uh huh.) And Miller will land on his feet somewhere cushy, he is very close to Putin and it doesn’t look like there’s been some kind of falling out between the two.

    Dividends are, of course, huge news, but much depends on who replaces Miller, assuming he is actually out. The market rumor mill has proposed a few potential candidates:

    Alexander Novak, Minister of Energy – He’s fairly competent, has good relations with Sechin, but managed to push through the OPEC+ production cuts despite Sechin’s opposition, so not necessarily his guy. Would be good for Gazprom.

    Alexander Dyukov, Head of Gazpromneft – This guy is the market favorite, he’s done an excellent job of managing the oil production asset, increasing production and standing in sharp contrast to the mother company. He’s market oriented, politically neutral.

    And, most interesting of all:

    Dmitry Medvedev, PM – This would be bad for GAZP, as he’s obviously not a particularly competent manager and this position would just be viewed as a handsome pension reward for political loyalty. However, it would be great news for the market as a whole, but this veers into the realm of politics.

    Of course, we could see the appointment of some no-name bureaucrat (nobody knew who Miller was when he replaced Vyakharev), a silovik (i.e. Sechin guy), or a Rotenberg associate. These would all be bad for the market and the company. At the least, it’s good to see some action in this arena, reforming Gazprom is long overdue.

    • Agree: Swarthy Greek
    • Replies: @Swarthy Greek
    I really hope that Dyukov takes over. State capitalism works only if you have qualified mandarins at the helm. The Gref-Sberbank/ Kostin-VTB contrast shows that Russia can build up its economy through state investment as long as the managers are not appointed due to political favours. Still, the problem of Sechin leeching off Rosneft through Rosneftegaz remains.

    Another question is what projects will make up Gazprom's investment plan. LNG plants cost a lot and Gazprom has already huge capital expenditures. So it remains to be seen if it will be able to build new LNG plants (Baltic, Vladivostok, Sakhalin expansion) and/ or pipelines ( Power of Siberia 2).

  116. @JL

    The stoligarchs ( Rotenberg, Timchenko, Miller) seem to be on their way out and their assets are being reconsolidated.
     
    I don't think these guys are necessarily on their way out, they are just being weened off a couple of particularly lucrative teats in the name of reform and efficiency. It's likely they'll get paid well for selling what are otherwise almost worthless shell companies. The Rotenbergs, for example, unloaded Mostortrest onto the NPF after the Olympics, then bought it back a few years later for another round of infrastructure spending. Timchenko still has Novatek, a company that benefitted from literally tens of billions of dollars of free pipeline infrastructure that the government built just for them (The market values NVTK at an EV/EBITDA of 10 vs. GAZP's 2-3 because it's so much more "efficient", uh huh.) And Miller will land on his feet somewhere cushy, he is very close to Putin and it doesn't look like there's been some kind of falling out between the two.

    Dividends are, of course, huge news, but much depends on who replaces Miller, assuming he is actually out. The market rumor mill has proposed a few potential candidates:

    Alexander Novak, Minister of Energy - He's fairly competent, has good relations with Sechin, but managed to push through the OPEC+ production cuts despite Sechin's opposition, so not necessarily his guy. Would be good for Gazprom.

    Alexander Dyukov, Head of Gazpromneft - This guy is the market favorite, he's done an excellent job of managing the oil production asset, increasing production and standing in sharp contrast to the mother company. He's market oriented, politically neutral.

    And, most interesting of all:

    Dmitry Medvedev, PM - This would be bad for GAZP, as he's obviously not a particularly competent manager and this position would just be viewed as a handsome pension reward for political loyalty. However, it would be great news for the market as a whole, but this veers into the realm of politics.

    Of course, we could see the appointment of some no-name bureaucrat (nobody knew who Miller was when he replaced Vyakharev), a silovik (i.e. Sechin guy), or a Rotenberg associate. These would all be bad for the market and the company. At the least, it's good to see some action in this arena, reforming Gazprom is long overdue.

    I really hope that Dyukov takes over. State capitalism works only if you have qualified mandarins at the helm. The Gref-Sberbank/ Kostin-VTB contrast shows that Russia can build up its economy through state investment as long as the managers are not appointed due to political favours. Still, the problem of Sechin leeching off Rosneft through Rosneftegaz remains.

    Another question is what projects will make up Gazprom’s investment plan. LNG plants cost a lot and Gazprom has already huge capital expenditures. So it remains to be seen if it will be able to build new LNG plants (Baltic, Vladivostok, Sakhalin expansion) and/ or pipelines ( Power of Siberia 2).

  117. @ImmortalRationalist
    The only way I see Trump winning in 2020 is a scenario where the Dems can't help but shoot themselves in the foot again and nominate an unpopular candidate, and Trump boomers his way to victory. I would guesstimate that Trump has a ~45% chance of getting reelected.

    I would guesstimate that Trump has a ~45% chance of getting reelected.

    I think this is far too generous. No way in hell is dRUmpF ever winning over the Rust Belt again.

    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    I'm going to go ahead and assume that you don't live in the Rust Belt.
  118. @Mikhail
    Washington Examiner WW II Spin

    Re: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/hitlers-armies-humiliated-you-russian-spokeswoman-mocked-for-downplaying-d-day

    If quoted accurately in full context, the Russian government spokesperson in question would've been better off not commenting on the D-Day landing. Perhaps she was replying to a claim belittling the Soviet war effort, relative to the D-Day landing? If so, then shame on the author of the above linked piece. Regardless, there's room for follow-up.

    The D-Day landing played an important role for sure. Notwithstanding, it's fair to say that the Nazi defeat was going to happen without the D-Day landing. In that scenario, the eventual Nazi defeat would've taken longer. Keep in mind that at the time of the D-Day landing, it had become abundantly clear that the Nazis were on the run in the East, after having incurred devastating defeats.

    The clear bulk of the fighting against the Nazis was done on the part of the USSR. Well educated and relatively objective enough mass media folks should be able to acknowledge this point, regardless of the negative aspects of the USSR.

    In the above linked Washington Examiner article, the noted replies to the Russian government spokesperson are cheesy. Allied aid to the USSR in the form of trucks and food made the Soviet war effort easier. Put mildly, it's a stretch to say that the USSR wouldn't have been victorious without that aid. Much of the Allied aid reached the Soviets when it had become clear that the Nazis weren't in the long run going to defeat the USSR. By the time of the D-Day landing, the Nazis were very much lacking in resources.

    Bringing up Molotov-Ribbentrop (M-R) as an "alliance" is misleading, when not noting that it was a "non-aggression pact", as opposed to a diplomatically worded "alliance" or "treaty of friendship". M-R was in answer to the West's willingness to let Hitler take Czechoslovakia. With Western (notably French)help, the Soviets offered to defend Czechoslovakia. That offer was refused, as some in the West had openly hoped for a Nazi-Soviet war with the West left out.

    Stalin understood Machiavellian geopolitics, while being aware that in 1938, Poland and Hungary followed Nazi Germany in the taking of Czechoslovak territory. BTW, Poland and Nazi Germany had signed a non-aggression pact in 1934.

    Bringing up Molotov-Ribbentrop (M-R) as an “alliance” is misleading

    What about the part to invade Poland from opposite sides and meet in the middle?

    • Replies: @neutral
    You're an idiot, that is not an alliance, not even in your cuck world definition of an alliance.
    , @Mikhail

    What about the part to invade Poland from opposite sides and meet in the middle?
     
    On the subject of whataboutery, there was the earlier Nazi-Polish non-aggression pact in 1934 and 1938 Nazi, Hungarian and Polish dismemberment of the then Russian and Soviet friendly Czechoslovakia
    , @Beckow

    What about the part to invade Poland from opposite sides and meet in the middle?
     
    Middle of what? What part of Poland did Soviets occupy in 1939? When I look on the map all of that territory is in Ukraine and Belarus. It was grabbed by Poland in the 1920 war. The population then and now is Ukrainian and Belorussian.

    What you say makes no sense. Not a single square inch of Poland was touched by Soviets in 1939. They did liberate dying Poland in 1944 at a cost of half million soldiers. In the meantime Germans killed about 5 million Poles. Poland's Western allies looked on and wrote editorials. Not a single American or Englishman died helping Poland in WWII.
  119. @Mikhail
    Washington Examiner WW II Spin

    Re: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/hitlers-armies-humiliated-you-russian-spokeswoman-mocked-for-downplaying-d-day

    If quoted accurately in full context, the Russian government spokesperson in question would've been better off not commenting on the D-Day landing. Perhaps she was replying to a claim belittling the Soviet war effort, relative to the D-Day landing? If so, then shame on the author of the above linked piece. Regardless, there's room for follow-up.

    The D-Day landing played an important role for sure. Notwithstanding, it's fair to say that the Nazi defeat was going to happen without the D-Day landing. In that scenario, the eventual Nazi defeat would've taken longer. Keep in mind that at the time of the D-Day landing, it had become abundantly clear that the Nazis were on the run in the East, after having incurred devastating defeats.

    The clear bulk of the fighting against the Nazis was done on the part of the USSR. Well educated and relatively objective enough mass media folks should be able to acknowledge this point, regardless of the negative aspects of the USSR.

    In the above linked Washington Examiner article, the noted replies to the Russian government spokesperson are cheesy. Allied aid to the USSR in the form of trucks and food made the Soviet war effort easier. Put mildly, it's a stretch to say that the USSR wouldn't have been victorious without that aid. Much of the Allied aid reached the Soviets when it had become clear that the Nazis weren't in the long run going to defeat the USSR. By the time of the D-Day landing, the Nazis were very much lacking in resources.

    Bringing up Molotov-Ribbentrop (M-R) as an "alliance" is misleading, when not noting that it was a "non-aggression pact", as opposed to a diplomatically worded "alliance" or "treaty of friendship". M-R was in answer to the West's willingness to let Hitler take Czechoslovakia. With Western (notably French)help, the Soviets offered to defend Czechoslovakia. That offer was refused, as some in the West had openly hoped for a Nazi-Soviet war with the West left out.

    Stalin understood Machiavellian geopolitics, while being aware that in 1938, Poland and Hungary followed Nazi Germany in the taking of Czechoslovak territory. BTW, Poland and Nazi Germany had signed a non-aggression pact in 1934.

    By the time of the D-Day landing, the Nazis were very much lacking in resources

    LOL. Maybe because of the naval blockade and the fleets of strategic bombers bombing oil refineries, factories and cities?

    • Replies: @Mikhail

    LOL. Maybe because of the naval blockade and the fleets of strategic bombers bombing oil refineries, factories and cities?
     
    LOL back. Nothing conclusive to show that the Soviets wouldn't have eventually defeated the Nazis. The latter having comparatively limited resources unlike the former, which took advantage of its vast geography, along with plentiful human and natural resources.
  120. @anon
    About Chinese culture: what you think about conspiracy theory that the famous terracotta army is fake?
    TL;DR: after Cultural Revolution, Chinese authorities wanted attract tourists to make money, and when they had no more actual historical artifacts, they made up some.

    Sources here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3ATerracotta_Army#The_statues_are_a_fake

    https://web.archive.org/web/20170331094535/http://www.minnieandmurray.com/are-the-terracotta-warriors-for-real/

    conspiracy theory that the famous terracotta army is fake?

    German museum admits terracotta warriors are fakes

    All China history is fake. They really ‘jump the shark’ when it comes to Chinese invention claims.

    wikipedia: List of Chinese inventions

    multistage rocket and rocket bombs with aerodynamic wings and explosive payloads

    large mechanical puppet theaters driven by waterwheels and carriage wheels and wine-serving automatons driven by paddle wheel boats

    Really?!

    You name it, China invented it just a few hundred years before Europe. Unfortunately, China had stagnation and Europeans came back at them with the improved Mk III models of everything. Yeah, that’s the ticket.

    Printing press…no.
    Cannon…no.
    Giant clock…no.
    Dragon seismograph…no.
    etc…

    They would try to claim the same about Africa, but no one would believe it. Chinese are smart enough that it is at least plausable.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    You're a moron who didn't even read the article you shared. The actual artifacts have been examined in detail, even had their specific chemical composition analyzed:

    https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.381.8552


    https://eic.rsc.org/feature/chemistry-unearths-the-secrets-of-the-terracotta-army/2000074.article
  121. @Mikhail
    Washington Examiner WW II Spin

    Re: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/hitlers-armies-humiliated-you-russian-spokeswoman-mocked-for-downplaying-d-day

    If quoted accurately in full context, the Russian government spokesperson in question would've been better off not commenting on the D-Day landing. Perhaps she was replying to a claim belittling the Soviet war effort, relative to the D-Day landing? If so, then shame on the author of the above linked piece. Regardless, there's room for follow-up.

    The D-Day landing played an important role for sure. Notwithstanding, it's fair to say that the Nazi defeat was going to happen without the D-Day landing. In that scenario, the eventual Nazi defeat would've taken longer. Keep in mind that at the time of the D-Day landing, it had become abundantly clear that the Nazis were on the run in the East, after having incurred devastating defeats.

    The clear bulk of the fighting against the Nazis was done on the part of the USSR. Well educated and relatively objective enough mass media folks should be able to acknowledge this point, regardless of the negative aspects of the USSR.

    In the above linked Washington Examiner article, the noted replies to the Russian government spokesperson are cheesy. Allied aid to the USSR in the form of trucks and food made the Soviet war effort easier. Put mildly, it's a stretch to say that the USSR wouldn't have been victorious without that aid. Much of the Allied aid reached the Soviets when it had become clear that the Nazis weren't in the long run going to defeat the USSR. By the time of the D-Day landing, the Nazis were very much lacking in resources.

    Bringing up Molotov-Ribbentrop (M-R) as an "alliance" is misleading, when not noting that it was a "non-aggression pact", as opposed to a diplomatically worded "alliance" or "treaty of friendship". M-R was in answer to the West's willingness to let Hitler take Czechoslovakia. With Western (notably French)help, the Soviets offered to defend Czechoslovakia. That offer was refused, as some in the West had openly hoped for a Nazi-Soviet war with the West left out.

    Stalin understood Machiavellian geopolitics, while being aware that in 1938, Poland and Hungary followed Nazi Germany in the taking of Czechoslovak territory. BTW, Poland and Nazi Germany had signed a non-aggression pact in 1934.

    It seems like an extremely counterproductive thing to say for a Foreign Affairs spokeswoman.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @Mikhail

    It seems like an extremely counterproductive thing to say for a Foreign Affairs spokeswoman.
     
    Once again cautioning on the context. Was something said to her beforehand? Agree in a carefully worded rebuttal on a matter like gauging the importance of the D-Day landing, relative to the Soviet war effort.

    The Washington Examiner article at issue is faulty for the reasons stated further up this thread.

    An offset to it:

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2019/06/06/d-day-more-drama-than-decisive-in-world-war-ii-victory/

  122. @Hippopotamusdrome


    Bringing up Molotov-Ribbentrop (M-R) as an “alliance” is misleading

     

    What about the part to invade Poland from opposite sides and meet in the middle?

    You’re an idiot, that is not an alliance, not even in your cuck world definition of an alliance.

  123. @Hippopotamusdrome


    conspiracy theory that the famous terracotta army is fake?

     

    German museum admits terracotta warriors are fakes

    All China history is fake. They really 'jump the shark' when it comes to Chinese invention claims.


    wikipedia: List of Chinese inventions

    multistage rocket and rocket bombs with aerodynamic wings and explosive payloads

    large mechanical puppet theaters driven by waterwheels and carriage wheels and wine-serving automatons driven by paddle wheel boats

     

    Really?!

    You name it, China invented it just a few hundred years before Europe. Unfortunately, China had stagnation and Europeans came back at them with the improved Mk III models of everything. Yeah, that's the ticket.

    Printing press...no.
    Cannon...no.
    Giant clock...no.
    Dragon seismograph...no.
    etc...

    They would try to claim the same about Africa, but no one would believe it. Chinese are smart enough that it is at least plausable.

    You’re a moron who didn’t even read the article you shared. The actual artifacts have been examined in detail, even had their specific chemical composition analyzed:

    https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.381.8552

    https://eic.rsc.org/feature/chemistry-unearths-the-secrets-of-the-terracotta-army/2000074.article

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome


    even had their specific chemical composition analyzed

    https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.381.8552

     

    The analysis showed that the figures were painted with "Chinese Purple". The paper then states that the manufacture of Chinese Purple is "highly complex" and that, to them, it is a "mystery" that such an advanced process is used at that early era.

    From the paper:


    The process to synthesize [Chinese Purple] is now known to be highly complex ... and how the early Chinese chemists managed to synthesize barium copper silicates in an almost pure form, even preceding the invention of paper and the compass, is a mystery.

     

    They offer the explanation that "Taoist alchemists" invented the process.

    They also note that Chinese Purple ceases to be used during later dynasties as its manufacture is, to them, too "high-tech" for even the talented China post Han dynasty. They explain this with a Chinese dark ages caused by the abandonment of Taoism.


    The influence of Taoism started to diminish during the Han dynasty. ... We believe that this is why few (if any) Chinese Purple or Chinese Blue pigments were used in the later dynasties. Without the support of the government and rich individuals, such a complicated “high-tech” operation was not feasible.

     

    The researches state that manufacture of Chinese Purple seems too sophisticated for the era (words enigma and mystery are used) and that it is even too sophisticated for later eras like post Han when China was supposed to literally be inventing everything according to wikipedia. But they are certain that the statues are from 200BC so they need to come up with an explanation, which is the art of Taoist alchemy that later comes to be lost.
  124. @Anatoly Karlin
    Trump was running against a uniquely unpopular and uncharismatic candidate in 2016.

    If he runs against somebody like Biden or Sanders then he is toast. Both of them are leading by 10% points in Pennsylvania ffs!

    AK, good point about the unique weakness of Hillary as a candidate in 2016.

    But I wouldn’t be too sure that Biden or Sanders will thump Trump. Among other things, by picking a very old nominee, the Dems remove trump’s advanced age as a potential negative factor.

    Probably a MUCH more important pro-Trump consequence of picking Biden or sanders: Africans simply will not turn out to vote for a white man (they’d consider sanders white) the way they turned out for Obama in 2008 and 2012. (This assumes that Biden or sanders wouldn’t pick an African veep “running mate.”).

    Swing states like North Carolina, Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania could go trump’s way again, however narrowly, with lower African turnout in Tallahassee, Charlotte NC, Cleveland and Columbus and Cincinnati OH, Philadelphia PA, and the like.

    God help the GOP when they inevitably face a Dem ticket consisting of a white moderate-pretending Mexican presidential nominee and an African veep nominee. Vice-President Stacy Abrams 2024 and President Stacy Abrams 2028. Save money for that foreign residency application and airfare….

  125. @ImmortalRationalist

    Who was also part of the most powerful political machine of them all, AND had millions of female voters who wanted the first female (Democrat) President ever badly enough to do more for her campaign than they would have done for any male Democrat. Many women registered to vote for the first time just for her.
     
    https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1478780146447.png

    Yet 53% of white women voted for Trump.

    And slightly more if the figure we are seeing includes Jewish women.

  126. @Thulean Friend
    Extremely predictable yet entirely unsurprising to see his hypocrisy as a jewish supremacist.

    This is yet another perfect example of why allying with jews is always a dead end. Goyim never learn!

    Such shocking hypocrisy!

    Israel has black Jews, Indian Jews, Chinese Jews, blond haired blue eyed light skinned Jews, and swarthy black haired olive skinned Jews.

    Israel actually spent considerable time and resources, and risked intelligence assets and special army units, in airlifting black Jews from Ethiopia into Israel.

    Oh, the hypocrisy of that dastardly Hazony wanting racial purity for Israel vs his advocating a mere nation for America!

    But I do feel sorry for you whites – stripped off national traits by the Enlightenment, the only organizing principle you have left is the abstract one of “race”.

    And you seem unable to intelligently study historically successful national entities and adapt their principles – captured as you are by maximalist Enlightenment thinking.

    Well, good luck with history’s only known attempt to craft a civilization based entirely on race. The modern world is indeed a time of experiment.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Yes it's maybe the most multiracial country I was in (relative to size).

    And also very multicultural, multireligious, mulitlanguage, etc.

    Actually it could be one of the most negative things about Israel - too many different races, religions and languages.

    , @ANON
    Your beloved Israel is effectively Apartheid with Euro Jews at the top while Negroes and Arabs are the lessers.

    America guaranteed to degenerate into a Mestizo pit like Brazil too.

  127. @Bonner Tal
    Moore's law will not be particularly relevant for AI accelerators, at least not for the next one or two decades. I expect things to be massively scaled in the next decade, see for example OpenAI's plans. Then either very impressive stuff will happen or there might actually be an AI winter.

    But right now any AI winter is still far away. The adoption phase of stuff that works has only just started. And if anything, the yearly break throughs are getting more impressive.

    I disagree. The scaling of semiconductor devices has been the primary driver of computational improvements. All of the current AI work is based on a single development, multi-layered neuro-nets (AKA “deep” learning), which were invented in 1986. 1986 to 1988 saw some talk about this before it was shelved simply because computational power at the time was not sufficient to do any work with it. Computational power improved due to Moore’s Law so that by 2012, people started working in deep learning again. Deep learning is a “one time” jump in computing performance. Any new technology, comparable to deep learning in 1986, might bear fruit around 2040 or so. I have not heard of any such thing. That, and that Moore’s Law is hitting the hard limit at the 5 nm regime, means that we really are entering an AI winter in the next couple of years.

    I would say forget about computation and focus on bio-engineering. Bio-engineering is where all of the action will be in this century.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @AaronB
    Winter is coming.
  128. @yakushimaru
    Culture is not those things that you can teach a foreigner or an actor in a series of lessons. Let me tell a crude example. Say, one can teach an actor to play the son of one's mother but that is different. The actor is only acting.

    As said, a lot of tradtion is just LARPing, esp when the said culture is recovering. Many things on the surface can look shallow and even silly. But, again, continue the somewhat crude example, the son is reconnecting with his mother, his acts might not look graceful, comparing to that of a talented actor acting as a son, but, I think it's not that hard to see the difference.

    Regarding Taiwan's authentic Chineseness. Taiwan can only be authentic when they found authentic Taiwanness. If that's not a thing, then there's only fake.

    LARPing is a form of acting.

  129. @Abelard Lindsey
    I disagree. The scaling of semiconductor devices has been the primary driver of computational improvements. All of the current AI work is based on a single development, multi-layered neuro-nets (AKA "deep" learning), which were invented in 1986. 1986 to 1988 saw some talk about this before it was shelved simply because computational power at the time was not sufficient to do any work with it. Computational power improved due to Moore's Law so that by 2012, people started working in deep learning again. Deep learning is a "one time" jump in computing performance. Any new technology, comparable to deep learning in 1986, might bear fruit around 2040 or so. I have not heard of any such thing. That, and that Moore's Law is hitting the hard limit at the 5 nm regime, means that we really are entering an AI winter in the next couple of years.

    I would say forget about computation and focus on bio-engineering. Bio-engineering is where all of the action will be in this century.

    Winter is coming.

    • Replies: @Abelard Lindsey
    Yes it is.

    https://blog.piekniewski.info/2018/05/28/ai-winter-is-well-on-its-way/
  130. @AaronB
    Winter is coming.
    • Agree: AaronB
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    On auto-driving - Yandex is looking fairly good (extra points for this being on crowded city streets):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx08yRsR9ow
  131. @neutral
    I wouldn't really call it a conspiracy that jews run America, no different to calling it a conspiracy that Manchuria was Japanese puppet in the 1930's. Politicians are openly supporting laws to criminalize anti jewish people, they are giving Israel endless amounts of money and will protect Israel from all UN resolutions, you have things like AIPAC, and so on. These are all well known facts, this is not a conspiracy theory, nor am I saying jews are conspiring, they are doing this openly and taking it for granted they are are in charge.

    Unlike Hitler where the international jew was nebulous and everywhere, Israel is a distinct target, taking out Israel would essentially be a decapitation strike on the US.

    Israel is a distinct target, taking out Israel would essentially be a decapitation strike on the US

    You are wrong. The influential oligarchs are American Jews, just as they were (to a smaller extent) back in 1940, and Israel is similar to Eastern European Jewry was back then: it’s a beloved child.

    So destroying Israel would be destroying their child. Not a decapitating strike.

    The analogy is not fully correct, because you cannot hold Israel as hostage: as I wrote, they are not a rationally led tight organization, rather a loose conglomeration of disparate individuals and organizations. They don’t coordinate, at least not that tightly. (They might even hate each other, like Soros v. Adelson.) The more you threaten or harm Israel, the more they will hate you. Destroying Israel will accomplish nothing, just make them hate you even more.


  132. ALL HAIL OUR GREEN OVERLORDS; ECOFASCISM NOW!

  133. @Hippopotamusdrome


    Bringing up Molotov-Ribbentrop (M-R) as an “alliance” is misleading

     

    What about the part to invade Poland from opposite sides and meet in the middle?

    What about the part to invade Poland from opposite sides and meet in the middle?

    On the subject of whataboutery, there was the earlier Nazi-Polish non-aggression pact in 1934 and 1938 Nazi, Hungarian and Polish dismemberment of the then Russian and Soviet friendly Czechoslovakia

  134. @Hippopotamusdrome


    By the time of the D-Day landing, the Nazis were very much lacking in resources

     

    LOL. Maybe because of the naval blockade and the fleets of strategic bombers bombing oil refineries, factories and cities?

    LOL. Maybe because of the naval blockade and the fleets of strategic bombers bombing oil refineries, factories and cities?

    LOL back. Nothing conclusive to show that the Soviets wouldn’t have eventually defeated the Nazis. The latter having comparatively limited resources unlike the former, which took advantage of its vast geography, along with plentiful human and natural resources.

  135. @Kent Nationalist
    It seems like an extremely counterproductive thing to say for a Foreign Affairs spokeswoman.

    It seems like an extremely counterproductive thing to say for a Foreign Affairs spokeswoman.

    Once again cautioning on the context. Was something said to her beforehand? Agree in a carefully worded rebuttal on a matter like gauging the importance of the D-Day landing, relative to the Soviet war effort.

    The Washington Examiner article at issue is faulty for the reasons stated further up this thread.

    An offset to it:

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2019/06/06/d-day-more-drama-than-decisive-in-world-war-ii-victory/

  136. @Hippopotamusdrome


    Bringing up Molotov-Ribbentrop (M-R) as an “alliance” is misleading

     

    What about the part to invade Poland from opposite sides and meet in the middle?

    What about the part to invade Poland from opposite sides and meet in the middle?

    Middle of what? What part of Poland did Soviets occupy in 1939? When I look on the map all of that territory is in Ukraine and Belarus. It was grabbed by Poland in the 1920 war. The population then and now is Ukrainian and Belorussian.

    What you say makes no sense. Not a single square inch of Poland was touched by Soviets in 1939. They did liberate dying Poland in 1944 at a cost of half million soldiers. In the meantime Germans killed about 5 million Poles. Poland’s Western allies looked on and wrote editorials. Not a single American or Englishman died helping Poland in WWII.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    Yes, further noting that the Western reply was against Nazi Germany and not the USSR.
    , @Anonymous
    WTF I love Stalin now.
    , @szopen
    Half of my family was born in what you say "was not Poland". They lived there for generations, and in the region Poles were majority. In some regions Poles are majority even now, after what is now 80 years of deportations, emigrations and russification.

    Also, it was not 1920 war. It was 1919-1921 war.

    Also, you are wrong by saying about no single Englishman died helping Poland. Google pilots who were making flights to help Warsaw Uprising.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_airlift

    , @szopen
    Also, by what criterion you would want to declare which areas were "Poland" and which were not? By ethnic: then some part of this territories had Polish majorities (e.g. Wilno voivodship) or pluralities (Tarnopol). By historical: Poland had not existed for 125 years, and so it was no less "grabbing" Vilnius than "grabbing" Poznań. Why would you want to declare Vilnius as less Polish city in 1920 than Warsaw?
    , @AP

    What part of Poland did Soviets occupy in 1939? When I look on the map all of that territory is in Ukraine and Belarus....Not a single square inch of Poland was touched by Soviets in 1939.
     
    Exaggeration as usual, though not as extreme as is typical of you.

    https://i.pinimg.com/600x315/43/cf/03/43cf0336cccd1c08b7c717ffe9174836.jpg

    Grodno and Lida, and the regions around them in Belarus, and much of what is now southern Lithuania (including the city of Vilnius) were majority-Polish and taken by Soviets in 1939. Unlike majority-Polish island-pockets such as Lviv city, these territories in what are now Belarus and Lithuania were actually contiguous with the rest of Polish territory.
    , @Hippopotamusdrome
    I did not know that until now. Russia unfairly lost land to Poland after WWI, and they were trying to reclaim it. Sort of like the Russian Danzig.
  137. @Beckow

    What about the part to invade Poland from opposite sides and meet in the middle?
     
    Middle of what? What part of Poland did Soviets occupy in 1939? When I look on the map all of that territory is in Ukraine and Belarus. It was grabbed by Poland in the 1920 war. The population then and now is Ukrainian and Belorussian.

    What you say makes no sense. Not a single square inch of Poland was touched by Soviets in 1939. They did liberate dying Poland in 1944 at a cost of half million soldiers. In the meantime Germans killed about 5 million Poles. Poland's Western allies looked on and wrote editorials. Not a single American or Englishman died helping Poland in WWII.

    Yes, further noting that the Western reply was against Nazi Germany and not the USSR.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    WWII is a problematic event, the wrong people won as far as West is concerned. After 75 years, lots of forgetting, and soft propaganda from Hollywood, the history has to be changed.

    Germany was defeated on a small beach in Normandy, sub-humans in the east had to wait for Reagan to liberate them, and Hitler strikes me as a secret Bolshevik anyway - it is simpler that way.
  138. Anonymous[339] • Disclaimer says:
    @Beckow

    What about the part to invade Poland from opposite sides and meet in the middle?
     
    Middle of what? What part of Poland did Soviets occupy in 1939? When I look on the map all of that territory is in Ukraine and Belarus. It was grabbed by Poland in the 1920 war. The population then and now is Ukrainian and Belorussian.

    What you say makes no sense. Not a single square inch of Poland was touched by Soviets in 1939. They did liberate dying Poland in 1944 at a cost of half million soldiers. In the meantime Germans killed about 5 million Poles. Poland's Western allies looked on and wrote editorials. Not a single American or Englishman died helping Poland in WWII.

    WTF I love Stalin now.

  139. @Mikhail
    Yes, further noting that the Western reply was against Nazi Germany and not the USSR.

    WWII is a problematic event, the wrong people won as far as West is concerned. After 75 years, lots of forgetting, and soft propaganda from Hollywood, the history has to be changed.

    Germany was defeated on a small beach in Normandy, sub-humans in the east had to wait for Reagan to liberate them, and Hitler strikes me as a secret Bolshevik anyway – it is simpler that way.

    • Replies: @Gerard2

    WWII is a problematic event, the wrong people won as far as West is concerned. After 75 years, lots of forgetting, and soft propaganda from Hollywood, the history has to be changed.

    Germany was defeated on a small beach in Normandy, sub-humans in the east had to wait for Reagan to liberate them, and Hitler strikes me as a secret Bolshevik anyway – it is simpler that way.


     

    Yep, you are absolutely correct. Some of the things these commemorations try to camouflage is that:

    1.one of Churchill's biggest successes was preventing braindead, one-dimensional Americans from forcing Britain in 1941/42 to jointly storm Northern France. At the moment it is presented as if the Americans "seized the moment" for D-Day in 1944 and persuaded /forced a reluctant Churchill to along with it - when in reality hotheaded Americans had wanted to do it practically from the very beginning of entering the war. Fighting the Nazi's via North Africa and then Italy were completely opposite the Americans thinking. American tactics= Nazi victory or at least , advantage.

    2. France is only 40km from UK . I would guess the average westerner has never thought of how far the distance is from say, Stalingrad to Bratislava or Praga that many Russian soldiers went and drove back the Nazis...compared to the 40 km ( plus Channel Island occupation) via sea that the British took years to travel through.....for reasons that could only be connected to the rate of the Red Army progress through Europe.

    I would say there is a propaganda campaign to prevent them thinking about the small distance between UK and France ......and disingenuous timing of the operation
  140. Sorry to hear that Helmuth Nyborg (or his party Hard Line) doesn’t seem to have won a seat in the Danish elections.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
  141. @Abelard Lindsey
    Yes it is.

    https://blog.piekniewski.info/2018/05/28/ai-winter-is-well-on-its-way/

    On auto-driving – Yandex is looking fairly good (extra points for this being on crowded city streets):

    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @Abelard Lindsey
    Yes, but I still maintain that autonomous driving requires that the automation be built into the roads as well as the cars themselves. Having it in both makes for increased redundancy, which is critical for safety.
  142. @Beckow

    What about the part to invade Poland from opposite sides and meet in the middle?
     
    Middle of what? What part of Poland did Soviets occupy in 1939? When I look on the map all of that territory is in Ukraine and Belarus. It was grabbed by Poland in the 1920 war. The population then and now is Ukrainian and Belorussian.

    What you say makes no sense. Not a single square inch of Poland was touched by Soviets in 1939. They did liberate dying Poland in 1944 at a cost of half million soldiers. In the meantime Germans killed about 5 million Poles. Poland's Western allies looked on and wrote editorials. Not a single American or Englishman died helping Poland in WWII.

    Half of my family was born in what you say “was not Poland”. They lived there for generations, and in the region Poles were majority. In some regions Poles are majority even now, after what is now 80 years of deportations, emigrations and russification.

    Also, it was not 1920 war. It was 1919-1921 war.

    Also, you are wrong by saying about no single Englishman died helping Poland. Google pilots who were making flights to help Warsaw Uprising.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_airlift

    • Agree: Kent Nationalist
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    But his overall point is quite objective.

    What's the number of English who died in liberation of Poland in 1944-45? And what's the number of Russians?


    -
    Obviously, for emotional reasons - and fairly, as even as late as lack of help for Warsaw Uprising -, Poles prefer to focus on the few English who died to liberate Poland, rather than the millions of Russians.

    But if was Russian people (not English) who liberated Poland, and it was the USSR which rebuilt its economy - that also cannot be forgotten.

  143. @Beckow

    What about the part to invade Poland from opposite sides and meet in the middle?
     
    Middle of what? What part of Poland did Soviets occupy in 1939? When I look on the map all of that territory is in Ukraine and Belarus. It was grabbed by Poland in the 1920 war. The population then and now is Ukrainian and Belorussian.

    What you say makes no sense. Not a single square inch of Poland was touched by Soviets in 1939. They did liberate dying Poland in 1944 at a cost of half million soldiers. In the meantime Germans killed about 5 million Poles. Poland's Western allies looked on and wrote editorials. Not a single American or Englishman died helping Poland in WWII.

    Also, by what criterion you would want to declare which areas were “Poland” and which were not? By ethnic: then some part of this territories had Polish majorities (e.g. Wilno voivodship) or pluralities (Tarnopol). By historical: Poland had not existed for 125 years, and so it was no less “grabbing” Vilnius than “grabbing” Poznań. Why would you want to declare Vilnius as less Polish city in 1920 than Warsaw?

    • Replies: @Beckow
    I am not declaring anything, the region has been mixed for centuries. But Vilnius is the capitol of Lithuania, and your talk of 'russification' is bizarre since all that territory is in Western Ukraine, Belarus and Lithuania. Isn't your fight with those countries, why do you always include Russia in it?

    My point was different: Soviet Union retook the disputed and ethnically mixed, largely non-Polish, territories that were only in Poland post WWI. (The medievial Polish eastern empire is a different story, e.g. Gascony used to belong to England too.)

    The story of R-M Treaty was a lot more complicated than you present. It was done to buy time and a full year AFTER France and England joined Germany in the Munich Treaty. If one is an ally, so was the other. Poland also signed friendship treaty with Nazi Germany in 1934 and participated in Munich. Don't lie by omission.

    And the link to Westerners who 'died for Poland' proves my point: half a million versus 300, what is it? 1,000 to 1? If Soviets stopped on Polish borders, there would be no Poland today. You would be all gone. Brits or Americans were not going to invade and sacrifice half a million soldiers to liberate Poland.

    Ungratefulness of this magnitude will turn out very costly in the future.

    , @AP

    By ethnic: then some part of this territories had Polish majorities (e.g. Wilno voivodship) or pluralities (Tarnopol).
     
    Incorrect. Polish census used language and religion, not ethnicity.

    https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wojew%C3%B3dztwo_tarnopolskie

    By language Poles were a bare plurality in Tarnopol - 49% of the population was Polish-speaking vs. 45% Ukrainian-speaking and under 5% Yiddish-speaking.

    But by religion Greek Catholics were a majority there - 56%. Roman Catholics were only 37% of the population, Jews were 8%.

    Half of the Jews and about 15% of the Greek Catholics (Ukrainians) were Polish-speaking. This was enough to give Poles linguistic plurality. But they did not have an ethnic plurality.

    :::::::::::::::::

    Vilnius voivodship OTOH was 60% Polish-speaking, 23% Belarusian-speaking, 8.5% Yiddish-speaking and only 5% Lithuanian-speaking. By religion, it was 62.5% were Roman Catholic, 25.4% Orthodox, 8.7% Jewish. So it really was mostly Polish.
  144. @szopen
    Also, by what criterion you would want to declare which areas were "Poland" and which were not? By ethnic: then some part of this territories had Polish majorities (e.g. Wilno voivodship) or pluralities (Tarnopol). By historical: Poland had not existed for 125 years, and so it was no less "grabbing" Vilnius than "grabbing" Poznań. Why would you want to declare Vilnius as less Polish city in 1920 than Warsaw?

    I am not declaring anything, the region has been mixed for centuries. But Vilnius is the capitol of Lithuania, and your talk of ‘russification’ is bizarre since all that territory is in Western Ukraine, Belarus and Lithuania. Isn’t your fight with those countries, why do you always include Russia in it?

    My point was different: Soviet Union retook the disputed and ethnically mixed, largely non-Polish, territories that were only in Poland post WWI. (The medievial Polish eastern empire is a different story, e.g. Gascony used to belong to England too.)

    The story of R-M Treaty was a lot more complicated than you present. It was done to buy time and a full year AFTER France and England joined Germany in the Munich Treaty. If one is an ally, so was the other. Poland also signed friendship treaty with Nazi Germany in 1934 and participated in Munich. Don’t lie by omission.

    And the link to Westerners who ‘died for Poland’ proves my point: half a million versus 300, what is it? 1,000 to 1? If Soviets stopped on Polish borders, there would be no Poland today. You would be all gone. Brits or Americans were not going to invade and sacrifice half a million soldiers to liberate Poland.

    Ungratefulness of this magnitude will turn out very costly in the future.

    • Agree: Yevardian
    • Replies: @AP

    If Soviets stopped on Polish borders, there would be no Poland today. You would be all gone. Brits or Americans were not going to invade and sacrifice half a million soldiers to liberate Poland.

    Ungratefulness of this magnitude will turn out very costly in the future.
     
    Typical and disgusting Sovok argument.

    By your logic, if a rapist saves a woman for a murderer and keeps her in his basement for decades, she should be grateful to him because if not for him she would be dead.

    If someone saves your life he has a right to, say, cut off your hands and steal from you, and you should express your gratitude towards him.

    Etc. etc.
  145. AP says:
    @Beckow

    What about the part to invade Poland from opposite sides and meet in the middle?
     
    Middle of what? What part of Poland did Soviets occupy in 1939? When I look on the map all of that territory is in Ukraine and Belarus. It was grabbed by Poland in the 1920 war. The population then and now is Ukrainian and Belorussian.

    What you say makes no sense. Not a single square inch of Poland was touched by Soviets in 1939. They did liberate dying Poland in 1944 at a cost of half million soldiers. In the meantime Germans killed about 5 million Poles. Poland's Western allies looked on and wrote editorials. Not a single American or Englishman died helping Poland in WWII.

    What part of Poland did Soviets occupy in 1939? When I look on the map all of that territory is in Ukraine and Belarus….Not a single square inch of Poland was touched by Soviets in 1939.

    Exaggeration as usual, though not as extreme as is typical of you.

    Grodno and Lida, and the regions around them in Belarus, and much of what is now southern Lithuania (including the city of Vilnius) were majority-Polish and taken by Soviets in 1939. Unlike majority-Polish island-pockets such as Lviv city, these territories in what are now Belarus and Lithuania were actually contiguous with the rest of Polish territory.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    Nice map, close enough. What Soviets 'took' was non-Polish with the usual ethnic enclaves on both sides of what is inevitably an imperfect border (e.g. southeast Poland had a Ukrainian population).

    Lithuania was an independent country and had nothing to do with it in 1939, so your Vilnius point is a distraction. Take it up with the Lithuanians. And also Galicians and Belorussians - your disputes are with them, not with Russia.
  146. AP says:
    @Beckow
    I am not declaring anything, the region has been mixed for centuries. But Vilnius is the capitol of Lithuania, and your talk of 'russification' is bizarre since all that territory is in Western Ukraine, Belarus and Lithuania. Isn't your fight with those countries, why do you always include Russia in it?

    My point was different: Soviet Union retook the disputed and ethnically mixed, largely non-Polish, territories that were only in Poland post WWI. (The medievial Polish eastern empire is a different story, e.g. Gascony used to belong to England too.)

    The story of R-M Treaty was a lot more complicated than you present. It was done to buy time and a full year AFTER France and England joined Germany in the Munich Treaty. If one is an ally, so was the other. Poland also signed friendship treaty with Nazi Germany in 1934 and participated in Munich. Don't lie by omission.

    And the link to Westerners who 'died for Poland' proves my point: half a million versus 300, what is it? 1,000 to 1? If Soviets stopped on Polish borders, there would be no Poland today. You would be all gone. Brits or Americans were not going to invade and sacrifice half a million soldiers to liberate Poland.

    Ungratefulness of this magnitude will turn out very costly in the future.

    If Soviets stopped on Polish borders, there would be no Poland today. You would be all gone. Brits or Americans were not going to invade and sacrifice half a million soldiers to liberate Poland.

    Ungratefulness of this magnitude will turn out very costly in the future.

    Typical and disgusting Sovok argument.

    By your logic, if a rapist saves a woman for a murderer and keeps her in his basement for decades, she should be grateful to him because if not for him she would be dead.

    If someone saves your life he has a right to, say, cut off your hands and steal from you, and you should express your gratitude towards him.

    Etc. etc.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    There is no way to react to emotional nonsense like that.

    My simple point is that nobody owed Poland a liberation. Soviets finally did it at a huge cost to themselves - half a million sacrificed so Poland could live. Brits and Americans were never going to do it. Address that and not your rape fantasies.

    This is not a fairy tale with good and evil, in real life the choices were to live or not to live. Show some gratitude or people will assume you are just an emotional wreck, a jerk who doesn't deserve any consideration. That could be costly for Poland in the future. Soviets died for you and treated your quite nicely after WWII - in spite of open Polish hatred then and now. Germans killed around 5 million in Poland and you can't wait to clean their toilets. Strange mentality.
  147. @AP

    What part of Poland did Soviets occupy in 1939? When I look on the map all of that territory is in Ukraine and Belarus....Not a single square inch of Poland was touched by Soviets in 1939.
     
    Exaggeration as usual, though not as extreme as is typical of you.

    https://i.pinimg.com/600x315/43/cf/03/43cf0336cccd1c08b7c717ffe9174836.jpg

    Grodno and Lida, and the regions around them in Belarus, and much of what is now southern Lithuania (including the city of Vilnius) were majority-Polish and taken by Soviets in 1939. Unlike majority-Polish island-pockets such as Lviv city, these territories in what are now Belarus and Lithuania were actually contiguous with the rest of Polish territory.

    Nice map, close enough. What Soviets ‘took’ was non-Polish with the usual ethnic enclaves on both sides of what is inevitably an imperfect border (e.g. southeast Poland had a Ukrainian population).

    Lithuania was an independent country and had nothing to do with it in 1939, so your Vilnius point is a distraction. Take it up with the Lithuanians. And also Galicians and Belorussians – your disputes are with them, not with Russia.

    • Replies: @AP

    What Soviets ‘took’ was non-Polish with the usual ethnic enclaves on both sides of what is inevitably an imperfect border
     
    Lviv city was an ethnic enclave. Grodno and Lida regions in modern Belarus, on the other hand, were linked to Poland, as can be seen on the map. They were no more "enclaves" than Tyrol is an enclave of Austria.

    Lithuania was an independent country and had nothing to do with it in 1939
     
    Soviets took majority-Polish Vilnius from Poland.
  148. AP says:
    @szopen
    Also, by what criterion you would want to declare which areas were "Poland" and which were not? By ethnic: then some part of this territories had Polish majorities (e.g. Wilno voivodship) or pluralities (Tarnopol). By historical: Poland had not existed for 125 years, and so it was no less "grabbing" Vilnius than "grabbing" Poznań. Why would you want to declare Vilnius as less Polish city in 1920 than Warsaw?

    By ethnic: then some part of this territories had Polish majorities (e.g. Wilno voivodship) or pluralities (Tarnopol).

    Incorrect. Polish census used language and religion, not ethnicity.

    https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wojew%C3%B3dztwo_tarnopolskie

    By language Poles were a bare plurality in Tarnopol – 49% of the population was Polish-speaking vs. 45% Ukrainian-speaking and under 5% Yiddish-speaking.

    But by religion Greek Catholics were a majority there – 56%. Roman Catholics were only 37% of the population, Jews were 8%.

    Half of the Jews and about 15% of the Greek Catholics (Ukrainians) were Polish-speaking. This was enough to give Poles linguistic plurality. But they did not have an ethnic plurality.

    :::::::::::::::::

    Vilnius voivodship OTOH was 60% Polish-speaking, 23% Belarusian-speaking, 8.5% Yiddish-speaking and only 5% Lithuanian-speaking. By religion, it was 62.5% were Roman Catholic, 25.4% Orthodox, 8.7% Jewish. So it really was mostly Polish.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Were Polish-speaking Greek Catholics invariably ethnically Ukrainian? I would think those were already pretty thoroughly Polonized.

    For example there are Hungarian speaking Greek Catholics in Hungary: basically all ethnically Hungarians. (Very likely their ancestors were Magyarized from other ethnicities, maybe Ukrainians.)

  149. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    TL;DR summary: The Ukraine is poor man's Arkansas.

    https://i.ibb.co/wh3Z6Z0/Kenya.png

    Fun anecdote: In Kentucky decades ago, it was a joke that the state motto was, "Thank God for Arkansas!" because Arkansas was the only thing keeping Kentucky from being "50th out of 50" in most American state stats. (However, both states have improved somewhat and it is now Mississippi or West Virginia that is 50th in most categories)

    Big difference: Arkansas has much better cultural products than the Ukraine.

    Examples of truly fine Arkansas cultural products:

    - Patrick Claiborne, brave Civil War Confederate general [born in Ireland]
    - Johnny Cash, genius musician - very underrated, in fact, for his creative skill
    - Levon Helm, rock and roll legend
    - The marvelous actor (and musician) and total nutjob, Billy Bob Thornton
    - My personal favorite ...... Charles Portis, best known for writing 'True Grit.' His novel 'Dog of the South' is also fantastic. Porthis had marvelous skill at capturing the local dialect and attitude of the south-central U.S. and turning it into a compelling element of good literature.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y492Y7k_Sc

    The following song about Arkansas is a fine one, well-written, song by two men in funny 1970s American clothes:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czF0coM2DMk

    Biggest similarity: Arkansas and the Ukraine both tend to produce ham-fisted and highly corrupt fake populist politicians, such as Huckabee and Clinton.

    Ukraine has nothing to compare with Sam Walton.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Walmart

    He was born in Oklahoma but he built the world’s greatest ever retail chain from Arkansas.

  150. @AP

    If Soviets stopped on Polish borders, there would be no Poland today. You would be all gone. Brits or Americans were not going to invade and sacrifice half a million soldiers to liberate Poland.

    Ungratefulness of this magnitude will turn out very costly in the future.
     
    Typical and disgusting Sovok argument.

    By your logic, if a rapist saves a woman for a murderer and keeps her in his basement for decades, she should be grateful to him because if not for him she would be dead.

    If someone saves your life he has a right to, say, cut off your hands and steal from you, and you should express your gratitude towards him.

    Etc. etc.

    There is no way to react to emotional nonsense like that.

    My simple point is that nobody owed Poland a liberation. Soviets finally did it at a huge cost to themselves – half a million sacrificed so Poland could live. Brits and Americans were never going to do it. Address that and not your rape fantasies.

    This is not a fairy tale with good and evil, in real life the choices were to live or not to live. Show some gratitude or people will assume you are just an emotional wreck, a jerk who doesn’t deserve any consideration. That could be costly for Poland in the future. Soviets died for you and treated your quite nicely after WWII – in spite of open Polish hatred then and now. Germans killed around 5 million in Poland and you can’t wait to clean their toilets. Strange mentality.

    • Agree: Dmitry
    • Replies: @AP

    My simple point is that nobody owed Poland a liberation. Soviets finally did it at a huge cost to themselves – half a million sacrificed so Poland could live.
     
    Soviets had to go through Poland to destroy Germany. They did not liberate Poland as a goodwill gesture.

    Rapist decides to kill a murderer who attacks him, and in the process takes the woman about to be killed by the murderer, for himself.

    By your disgusting logic she should be grateful to the rapist for what he did to her, because thanks to the rapist she is alive.

    Brits and Americans were never going to do it. Address that and not your rape fantasies.
     
    It is not a fantasy that Poland was brutalized by the Soviets, who murdered 100,000s of Poles and imposed a repressive regime upon them for decades. By your logic, Poles should be grateful for this because the Nazis whom the Soviets fought (only because the Nazis attacked them first) were even worse. Beckow-style "justice": if you save someone's life, you can do whatever you want with them, take anything from them, etc. and they have to be grateful. If they complain - they are emotional wrecks.

    Soviets died for you and treated your quite nicely after WWII
     
    Oh, they died for Poland and did not die because Nazis attacked them and they were on their way to Berlin?

    LOL, Sovok logic at work.
    , @Dmitry
    Everything you say is true - but you know Poles' emotional views on this topic, are not very fair to the history.

    For example, they usually are very positive about English and the UK, and see the British as their historical allies, as if the British saved them in Second World War.

    But for Russia - which only because of which Poles still exist - they have only negative historical or political emotions, even if they are polite about it.

    They're all even friendly socially to Russian people in normal life, but the political view of Russia is completely cynical, and too exaggerated.

    The thing about Poles, is they know (unlike other European nationalities) more accurately the negative aspects of Russia, but it's usually exaggerated .

  151. AP says:
    @Beckow
    Nice map, close enough. What Soviets 'took' was non-Polish with the usual ethnic enclaves on both sides of what is inevitably an imperfect border (e.g. southeast Poland had a Ukrainian population).

    Lithuania was an independent country and had nothing to do with it in 1939, so your Vilnius point is a distraction. Take it up with the Lithuanians. And also Galicians and Belorussians - your disputes are with them, not with Russia.

    What Soviets ‘took’ was non-Polish with the usual ethnic enclaves on both sides of what is inevitably an imperfect border

    Lviv city was an ethnic enclave. Grodno and Lida regions in modern Belarus, on the other hand, were linked to Poland, as can be seen on the map. They were no more “enclaves” than Tyrol is an enclave of Austria.

    Lithuania was an independent country and had nothing to do with it in 1939

    Soviets took majority-Polish Vilnius from Poland.

  152. @AP

    By ethnic: then some part of this territories had Polish majorities (e.g. Wilno voivodship) or pluralities (Tarnopol).
     
    Incorrect. Polish census used language and religion, not ethnicity.

    https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wojew%C3%B3dztwo_tarnopolskie

    By language Poles were a bare plurality in Tarnopol - 49% of the population was Polish-speaking vs. 45% Ukrainian-speaking and under 5% Yiddish-speaking.

    But by religion Greek Catholics were a majority there - 56%. Roman Catholics were only 37% of the population, Jews were 8%.

    Half of the Jews and about 15% of the Greek Catholics (Ukrainians) were Polish-speaking. This was enough to give Poles linguistic plurality. But they did not have an ethnic plurality.

    :::::::::::::::::

    Vilnius voivodship OTOH was 60% Polish-speaking, 23% Belarusian-speaking, 8.5% Yiddish-speaking and only 5% Lithuanian-speaking. By religion, it was 62.5% were Roman Catholic, 25.4% Orthodox, 8.7% Jewish. So it really was mostly Polish.

    Were Polish-speaking Greek Catholics invariably ethnically Ukrainian? I would think those were already pretty thoroughly Polonized.

    For example there are Hungarian speaking Greek Catholics in Hungary: basically all ethnically Hungarians. (Very likely their ancestors were Magyarized from other ethnicities, maybe Ukrainians.)

    • Replies: @AP

    Were Polish-speaking Greek Catholics invariably ethnically Ukrainian? I would think those were already pretty thoroughly Polonized.
     
    Probably 80% were ethnic Ukrainian. There were some cases of Poles marrying Ukrainians and becoming Greek Catholics, and a few Polonized noble families who kept their ancient faith, but because Poles had higher status it was usually the opposite - there were probably more Roman Catholic ethnic Ukrainians than vice versa.

    There were strong tensions between the Greek Catholic Church and the Polish state so it would be very odd for Polish people to be Greek Catholics in any large numbers. Most of them were like Russian-speaking Ukrainians in Kiev.

    If you subtract the Polish-speaking Jews you get about 46% Polish-speakers vs. 45.5% Ukrainian-speakers. There were more than enough Polish-speaking ethnic Ukrainian Greek Catholics to surpass the Poles.

  153. AP says:
    @Beckow
    There is no way to react to emotional nonsense like that.

    My simple point is that nobody owed Poland a liberation. Soviets finally did it at a huge cost to themselves - half a million sacrificed so Poland could live. Brits and Americans were never going to do it. Address that and not your rape fantasies.

    This is not a fairy tale with good and evil, in real life the choices were to live or not to live. Show some gratitude or people will assume you are just an emotional wreck, a jerk who doesn't deserve any consideration. That could be costly for Poland in the future. Soviets died for you and treated your quite nicely after WWII - in spite of open Polish hatred then and now. Germans killed around 5 million in Poland and you can't wait to clean their toilets. Strange mentality.

    My simple point is that nobody owed Poland a liberation. Soviets finally did it at a huge cost to themselves – half a million sacrificed so Poland could live.

    Soviets had to go through Poland to destroy Germany. They did not liberate Poland as a goodwill gesture.

    Rapist decides to kill a murderer who attacks him, and in the process takes the woman about to be killed by the murderer, for himself.

    By your disgusting logic she should be grateful to the rapist for what he did to her, because thanks to the rapist she is alive.

    Brits and Americans were never going to do it. Address that and not your rape fantasies.

    It is not a fantasy that Poland was brutalized by the Soviets, who murdered 100,000s of Poles and imposed a repressive regime upon them for decades. By your logic, Poles should be grateful for this because the Nazis whom the Soviets fought (only because the Nazis attacked them first) were even worse. Beckow-style “justice”: if you save someone’s life, you can do whatever you want with them, take anything from them, etc. and they have to be grateful. If they complain – they are emotional wrecks.

    Soviets died for you and treated your quite nicely after WWII

    Oh, they died for Poland and did not die because Nazis attacked them and they were on their way to Berlin?

    LOL, Sovok logic at work.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    It is impossible to understand the emotional jibberish that you write without defining what you mean by different terms.

    What is 'raping' in this context. How do you 'rape' a country? You are incoherent.

    murdered 100,000s of Poles and imposed a repressive regime upon them for decades.

     

    When? How? Are you saying that 100,000s of Poles were killed in Poland by Russians after WWII? That is simply not true. You can't make up things.

    There were 3 million members of the Polish Communist Party. 3 million Polish communists. They were the 'regime'.
  154. AP says:
    @reiner Tor
    Were Polish-speaking Greek Catholics invariably ethnically Ukrainian? I would think those were already pretty thoroughly Polonized.

    For example there are Hungarian speaking Greek Catholics in Hungary: basically all ethnically Hungarians. (Very likely their ancestors were Magyarized from other ethnicities, maybe Ukrainians.)

    Were Polish-speaking Greek Catholics invariably ethnically Ukrainian? I would think those were already pretty thoroughly Polonized.

    Probably 80% were ethnic Ukrainian. There were some cases of Poles marrying Ukrainians and becoming Greek Catholics, and a few Polonized noble families who kept their ancient faith, but because Poles had higher status it was usually the opposite – there were probably more Roman Catholic ethnic Ukrainians than vice versa.

    There were strong tensions between the Greek Catholic Church and the Polish state so it would be very odd for Polish people to be Greek Catholics in any large numbers. Most of them were like Russian-speaking Ukrainians in Kiev.

    If you subtract the Polish-speaking Jews you get about 46% Polish-speakers vs. 45.5% Ukrainian-speakers. There were more than enough Polish-speaking ethnic Ukrainian Greek Catholics to surpass the Poles.

    • Replies: @anon

    Probably 80% were ethnic Ukrainian. There were some cases of Poles marrying Ukrainians , bla, bla, bla etc.
     
    Another patriotic debate, exactly what we needed. This is our land! No, this is our land! No, this is our land!

    In 2019, who cares?

    By now all Poles, Lithuanians, Belarussian and Ukrainians who can leave to London to clean toilets and speak broken English. All this patriotic wars, massacres and pogroms were for ... nothing at all.
  155. Deadly blowback for a major pro-migrant politician?

    One of the major pro-Muslim-migrant figures of Germany has been murdered; possibly a political assassination

    Walter Lübcke (1953-2019) an ally of Angela Merkel, gained worldwide note as one of the leading promoters of welcoming millions of migrants to Germany and Europe in the events of 2015

    Lübcke became the face of the establishment welcoming Muslims to Germany, promoting their welcome to German citizens, Lübcke even telling Germans they could leave if they don’t like it

    On Sunday 2 June 2019, Lübcke was found with a single bullet in his head in his garden, no weapon nearby

    There is some speculation that this may have been a political murder, by someone strongly opposed to the migration waves of Muslims and Africans in Europe … the killer possibly acting as a lone wolf, without manifesto etc, and who made his getaway, at least for now

    Walter Lübcke, president of the council of Kassel in German Hesse state, had helped arrange for the display and purchase in Kassel of a 16.2-metre-high obelisk to honour strangers and migrants, by USA-Nigerian artist Olu Oguibe

    Oguibe received €126,000 for the obelisk with gold inscriptions in German, English, Turkish & Arabic, of the phrase “I was a stranger and you took me in”

    Fundraising sought to pay €600,000 for the obelisk, but Oguibe accepted the lower amount when fundraising did not reach the goal

  156. anon[372] • Disclaimer says:
    @AP

    Were Polish-speaking Greek Catholics invariably ethnically Ukrainian? I would think those were already pretty thoroughly Polonized.
     
    Probably 80% were ethnic Ukrainian. There were some cases of Poles marrying Ukrainians and becoming Greek Catholics, and a few Polonized noble families who kept their ancient faith, but because Poles had higher status it was usually the opposite - there were probably more Roman Catholic ethnic Ukrainians than vice versa.

    There were strong tensions between the Greek Catholic Church and the Polish state so it would be very odd for Polish people to be Greek Catholics in any large numbers. Most of them were like Russian-speaking Ukrainians in Kiev.

    If you subtract the Polish-speaking Jews you get about 46% Polish-speakers vs. 45.5% Ukrainian-speakers. There were more than enough Polish-speaking ethnic Ukrainian Greek Catholics to surpass the Poles.

    Probably 80% were ethnic Ukrainian. There were some cases of Poles marrying Ukrainians , bla, bla, bla etc.

    Another patriotic debate, exactly what we needed. This is our land! No, this is our land! No, this is our land!

    In 2019, who cares?

    By now all Poles, Lithuanians, Belarussian and Ukrainians who can leave to London to clean toilets and speak broken English. All this patriotic wars, massacres and pogroms were for … nothing at all.

    • Replies: @AP
    Some people here are really obsessed with toilets...
    , @Pharmakon
    "By now all Poles, Lithuanians, Belarussian and Ukrainians who can leave to London to clean toilets and speak broken English. All this patriotic wars, massacres and pogroms were for … nothing at all."

    Not for nothing but for everything - cleaning toilets in Berlin and London is the highest expression of cultural and national sovereignty for Poles and Ukies. They've always known what they wanted, they've been aiming high and, alas, they did achieve their national aspirations. An inspiration to us all!
  157. @AaronB
    Such shocking hypocrisy!

    Israel has black Jews, Indian Jews, Chinese Jews, blond haired blue eyed light skinned Jews, and swarthy black haired olive skinned Jews.

    Israel actually spent considerable time and resources, and risked intelligence assets and special army units, in airlifting black Jews from Ethiopia into Israel.

    Oh, the hypocrisy of that dastardly Hazony wanting racial purity for Israel vs his advocating a mere nation for America!

    But I do feel sorry for you whites - stripped off national traits by the Enlightenment, the only organizing principle you have left is the abstract one of "race".

    And you seem unable to intelligently study historically successful national entities and adapt their principles - captured as you are by maximalist Enlightenment thinking.

    Well, good luck with history's only known attempt to craft a civilization based entirely on race. The modern world is indeed a time of experiment.

    Yes it’s maybe the most multiracial country I was in (relative to size).

    And also very multicultural, multireligious, mulitlanguage, etc.

    Actually it could be one of the most negative things about Israel – too many different races, religions and languages.

  158. @Beckow
    There is no way to react to emotional nonsense like that.

    My simple point is that nobody owed Poland a liberation. Soviets finally did it at a huge cost to themselves - half a million sacrificed so Poland could live. Brits and Americans were never going to do it. Address that and not your rape fantasies.

    This is not a fairy tale with good and evil, in real life the choices were to live or not to live. Show some gratitude or people will assume you are just an emotional wreck, a jerk who doesn't deserve any consideration. That could be costly for Poland in the future. Soviets died for you and treated your quite nicely after WWII - in spite of open Polish hatred then and now. Germans killed around 5 million in Poland and you can't wait to clean their toilets. Strange mentality.

    Everything you say is true – but you know Poles’ emotional views on this topic, are not very fair to the history.

    For example, they usually are very positive about English and the UK, and see the British as their historical allies, as if the British saved them in Second World War.

    But for Russia – which only because of which Poles still exist – they have only negative historical or political emotions, even if they are polite about it.

    They’re all even friendly socially to Russian people in normal life, but the political view of Russia is completely cynical, and too exaggerated.

    The thing about Poles, is they know (unlike other European nationalities) more accurately the negative aspects of Russia, but it’s usually exaggerated .

  159. @szopen
    Half of my family was born in what you say "was not Poland". They lived there for generations, and in the region Poles were majority. In some regions Poles are majority even now, after what is now 80 years of deportations, emigrations and russification.

    Also, it was not 1920 war. It was 1919-1921 war.

    Also, you are wrong by saying about no single Englishman died helping Poland. Google pilots who were making flights to help Warsaw Uprising.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_airlift

    But his overall point is quite objective.

    What’s the number of English who died in liberation of Poland in 1944-45? And what’s the number of Russians?


    Obviously, for emotional reasons – and fairly, as even as late as lack of help for Warsaw Uprising -, Poles prefer to focus on the few English who died to liberate Poland, rather than the millions of Russians.

    But if was Russian people (not English) who liberated Poland, and it was the USSR which rebuilt its economy – that also cannot be forgotten.

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    Poles prefer to focus on the few English who died to liberate Poland, rather than the millions of Russians.
     
    Well I would edit this - not millions, but e.g. 50,000 just in month January 1945.
    , @Beckow
    I think 'emotional' might not quite capture the hateful mental state that so many Poles are in. As if they were rabid dogs, infected and angry, lashing out. It could be related to widespread diabetes or something genetical.

    The 'lack of help for Warsaw uprising' is a good one historically. In 1943 Polish exile government broke diplomatic relations with Soviet Union. They publicly denounced Russia and said 'we will liberate Warsaw ourselves' and 'we will defend it against Russians or anyone'. A year later they started an uprising in Warsaw on their own against Germans. It was a catastrophe, they got slaughtered. After it was obvious that they were going to be defeated, they desperately reached to Russians who were fighting their way through eastern Poland and begged them to come and 'save Warsaw'. They never ceased to call Russians an enemy, they never stopped the hateful rhetoric. Russians didn't save them, read Churchill memoirs about what he thought about this level of idiocy. There is a lesson there somewhere.
    , @AP

    But if was Russian people (not English) who liberated Poland
     
    Correction:

    While defeating the Nazis who attacked them, they enslaved Poland, and massacred 100,000s of Poles, but in so doing prevented Poland from being destroyed completely by the Nazis whom the Soviets defeated.

    And for this, some demand gratitude.

    it was the USSR which rebuilt its economy
     
    In a shabby way.
  160. @AP

    My simple point is that nobody owed Poland a liberation. Soviets finally did it at a huge cost to themselves – half a million sacrificed so Poland could live.
     
    Soviets had to go through Poland to destroy Germany. They did not liberate Poland as a goodwill gesture.

    Rapist decides to kill a murderer who attacks him, and in the process takes the woman about to be killed by the murderer, for himself.

    By your disgusting logic she should be grateful to the rapist for what he did to her, because thanks to the rapist she is alive.

    Brits and Americans were never going to do it. Address that and not your rape fantasies.
     
    It is not a fantasy that Poland was brutalized by the Soviets, who murdered 100,000s of Poles and imposed a repressive regime upon them for decades. By your logic, Poles should be grateful for this because the Nazis whom the Soviets fought (only because the Nazis attacked them first) were even worse. Beckow-style "justice": if you save someone's life, you can do whatever you want with them, take anything from them, etc. and they have to be grateful. If they complain - they are emotional wrecks.

    Soviets died for you and treated your quite nicely after WWII
     
    Oh, they died for Poland and did not die because Nazis attacked them and they were on their way to Berlin?

    LOL, Sovok logic at work.

    It is impossible to understand the emotional jibberish that you write without defining what you mean by different terms.

    What is ‘raping‘ in this context. How do you ‘rape’ a country? You are incoherent.

    murdered 100,000s of Poles and imposed a repressive regime upon them for decades.

    When? How? Are you saying that 100,000s of Poles were killed in Poland by Russians after WWII? That is simply not true. You can’t make up things.

    There were 3 million members of the Polish Communist Party. 3 million Polish communists. They were the ‘regime’.

    • Replies: @AP
    Do not label your confusion (fake?) as alleged "incoherence."

    murdered 100,000s of Poles and imposed a repressive regime upon them for decades.

    When? How? Are you saying that 100,000s of Poles were killed in Poland by Russians after WWII?
     

    100,000s of Poles were killed by Soviets after 1939 when they invaded Poland. What number were murdered after 1943 I do not feel like researching.

    There were 3 million members of the Polish Communist Party.
     
    No kidding. How many Nazis would there be in France, England, etc. if Germany won? How many Jewish kapos were there, for that matter?
  161. @Dmitry
    But his overall point is quite objective.

    What's the number of English who died in liberation of Poland in 1944-45? And what's the number of Russians?


    -
    Obviously, for emotional reasons - and fairly, as even as late as lack of help for Warsaw Uprising -, Poles prefer to focus on the few English who died to liberate Poland, rather than the millions of Russians.

    But if was Russian people (not English) who liberated Poland, and it was the USSR which rebuilt its economy - that also cannot be forgotten.

    Poles prefer to focus on the few English who died to liberate Poland, rather than the millions of Russians.

    Well I would edit this – not millions, but e.g. 50,000 just in month January 1945.

  162. @Dmitry
    But his overall point is quite objective.

    What's the number of English who died in liberation of Poland in 1944-45? And what's the number of Russians?


    -
    Obviously, for emotional reasons - and fairly, as even as late as lack of help for Warsaw Uprising -, Poles prefer to focus on the few English who died to liberate Poland, rather than the millions of Russians.

    But if was Russian people (not English) who liberated Poland, and it was the USSR which rebuilt its economy - that also cannot be forgotten.

    I think ’emotional’ might not quite capture the hateful mental state that so many Poles are in. As if they were rabid dogs, infected and angry, lashing out. It could be related to widespread diabetes or something genetical.

    The ‘lack of help for Warsaw uprising‘ is a good one historically. In 1943 Polish exile government broke diplomatic relations with Soviet Union. They publicly denounced Russia and said ‘we will liberate Warsaw ourselves‘ and ‘we will defend it against Russians or anyone‘. A year later they started an uprising in Warsaw on their own against Germans. It was a catastrophe, they got slaughtered. After it was obvious that they were going to be defeated, they desperately reached to Russians who were fighting their way through eastern Poland and begged them to come and ‘save Warsaw‘. They never ceased to call Russians an enemy, they never stopped the hateful rhetoric. Russians didn’t save them, read Churchill memoirs about what he thought about this level of idiocy. There is a lesson there somewhere.

    • Replies: @Yevardian

    Russians didn’t save them, read Churchill memoirs about what he thought about this level of idiocy. There is a lesson there somewhere.
     
    First information that's given me any interest in reading Churchill's memoirs. I don't know if I'd go as far as Irving's depiction of him, but he's certainly one of the overhyped political figures of the 20th Century. Mainly he was a narrow-minded and boorish drunkard of which nearly all his original military ideas failed spectacularly.

    I only remember Orwell trashing his tortured writing style in the following quote from 'Politics and the English Language': "The soft underbelly of Italy is the achille's heel of the German octopus", or something along those lines.

  163. anon[254] • Disclaimer says:

    Who cares by now what the Poles did to Russians and vice versa?
    White people of Europe were slaughtering each other for millenia, for any reason or no reason at all. Now, all thinking patriots see these tribal struggles as ridiculous and are calling for “white brotherhood” against other races.

    And Mr Karlin is ready to move it forward by … creating genetically engineered super intelligent monkeys.
    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/the-dawn-of-animal-uplift/

    If you want full human brotherhood, there is really no better way. Species problem will make race problem completely obsolete. Let all humanity, white, black, yellow and brown finally unite against the filthy apes.

  164. @anon

    Probably 80% were ethnic Ukrainian. There were some cases of Poles marrying Ukrainians , bla, bla, bla etc.
     
    Another patriotic debate, exactly what we needed. This is our land! No, this is our land! No, this is our land!

    In 2019, who cares?

    By now all Poles, Lithuanians, Belarussian and Ukrainians who can leave to London to clean toilets and speak broken English. All this patriotic wars, massacres and pogroms were for ... nothing at all.

    Some people here are really obsessed with toilets…

  165. AP says:
    @Beckow
    It is impossible to understand the emotional jibberish that you write without defining what you mean by different terms.

    What is 'raping' in this context. How do you 'rape' a country? You are incoherent.

    murdered 100,000s of Poles and imposed a repressive regime upon them for decades.

     

    When? How? Are you saying that 100,000s of Poles were killed in Poland by Russians after WWII? That is simply not true. You can't make up things.

    There were 3 million members of the Polish Communist Party. 3 million Polish communists. They were the 'regime'.

    Do not label your confusion (fake?) as alleged “incoherence.”

    murdered 100,000s of Poles and imposed a repressive regime upon them for decades.

    When? How? Are you saying that 100,000s of Poles were killed in Poland by Russians after WWII?

    100,000s of Poles were killed by Soviets after 1939 when they invaded Poland. What number were murdered after 1943 I do not feel like researching.

    There were 3 million members of the Polish Communist Party.

    No kidding. How many Nazis would there be in France, England, etc. if Germany won? How many Jewish kapos were there, for that matter?

    • Replies: @Beckow

    ...What number were murdered after 1943 I do not feel like researching.
     
    In other words, you were caught lying. There were not '100,000s' killed after WWII in Poland. End of story. You made it up.

    If you think that 3 million Polish communists are a 'joke', your reasoning ability is even worse than I have thought. American education by any chance?
    , @Gerard2

    There were 3 million members of the Polish Communist Party.

    No kidding. How many Nazis would there be in France, England, etc. if Germany won? How many Jewish kapos were there, for that matter?
     

    LOL........the explosion of membership and success of the Labour Party in England directly coincides with the Bolshevik revolution you idiot. Before 1917 Britain was traditionally Conservatives and liberals. Once upper-class Communist intellectuals and Marxist workers/trade Unionists started running the party then millions started voting for it you pr**K.

    It was a known fact that there were millions of Communists in Germany pre 1933, not majority but millions. Polish had big support, Italy and Greece were other countries that could easily have had an even more pro-Communist/USSR path without American /British pressure.


    100,000s of Poles were killed by Soviets after 1939 when they invaded Poland. What number were murdered after 1943 I do not feel like researching.
     
    LOL...a filthy lie - but an irrelevant lie also. Many scumbag polish elites were killed. Anyway the massacres of 100000s (civilians) by Banderatards in a few days, and millions of Poles by the Nazis plus these deserved killings of Poles by the Soviets - surely it's no coincidence that all these groups were incited to do it against a country like Poland that has literally done nothing positive for Europe.....ever

    No suprise either that the only building in Poland that anybody around the world has ever even heard about are the Stalinist ones

  166. AP says:
    @Dmitry
    But his overall point is quite objective.

    What's the number of English who died in liberation of Poland in 1944-45? And what's the number of Russians?


    -
    Obviously, for emotional reasons - and fairly, as even as late as lack of help for Warsaw Uprising -, Poles prefer to focus on the few English who died to liberate Poland, rather than the millions of Russians.

    But if was Russian people (not English) who liberated Poland, and it was the USSR which rebuilt its economy - that also cannot be forgotten.

    But if was Russian people (not English) who liberated Poland

    Correction:

    While defeating the Nazis who attacked them, they enslaved Poland, and massacred 100,000s of Poles, but in so doing prevented Poland from being destroyed completely by the Nazis whom the Soviets defeated.

    And for this, some demand gratitude.

    it was the USSR which rebuilt its economy

    In a shabby way.

  167. @neutral

    South Africa should work to be a role model for Africa
     
    This is very telling of the typical liberal mindset. Note how he does not pick other African nations to be a role model for the rest, he picks South Africa. Deep down almost everyone is completely aware that blacks are an inferior race, however as a liberal they think everything can still work fine if just a few whites (and other non black races) hang around and keep things going. The truth is that a small elite cannot really run a successful state as philosopher kings, the success of society is the sum total of its entire population, and South Africa is a good model of this fact.

    This is very telling of the typical liberal mindset. Note how he does not pick other African nations to be a role model for the rest, he picks South Africa. Deep down almost everyone is completely aware that blacks are an inferior race, however as a liberal they think everything can still work fine if just a few whites (and other non black races) hang around and keep things going. The truth is that a small elite cannot really run a successful state as philosopher kings, the success of society is the sum total of its entire population, and South Africa is a good model of this fact.

    Bizarrely enough, despite the multitude of problems South Africa has had, and despite knowing what feels like a million white and Indian South Africans who have left the country and understandably feel ashamed of how South Africa is developing………..the population of whites and Indians in SA has remained at roughly the same now as it was at the end of apartheid.

  168. @AP

    Insomniac Resurrected: Facebook Hires a Neonazi As Its Public Policy Manager in Ukraine.
     
    Svoboda Party are not neo-Nazis, so the claim is b.s. They are right-wing like the Austrian Freedom Party.

    The major neo-Nazis in Ukraine are from Azov. I was expecting her to be from there, but instead - Svoboda.

    [MORE]

    Svoboda Party are not neo-Nazis, so the claim is b.s. They are right-wing like the Austrian Freedom Party.

    The major neo-Nazis in Ukraine are from Azov. I was expecting her to be from there, but instead – Svoboda.

    LOL ..I go away for a few days and “surprise” a sicko as yourself is AGAIN spamming here with complete BS.

    You are not in any position to be familar with the vagaries of Ukrainian politics in order to ascertain who are or are not neo-nazis you cretin. You simply copy-and paste (lies) from similarly propagandist, habitual lying fantasists based in North America who also have Banderatard “heritage”
    .
    They (Svoboda) are neo-Nazis, 100%, by any western measure you idiot. To compare them to the Austrian Freedom party would be as dumb as comparing the Communist party in China to the Democrat party in the US, or to compare Vladimir Lenin to Lenin Moreno of Ecuador –

    It’s simply an idiotic comparison. The AFP could say they want an Austria with the same characteristics as it had in 1956 of 1856 or 1756 or 1656 – the village retards in Svoboda , for obvious reasons, could not ask for the same.

  169. @Beckow
    WWII is a problematic event, the wrong people won as far as West is concerned. After 75 years, lots of forgetting, and soft propaganda from Hollywood, the history has to be changed.

    Germany was defeated on a small beach in Normandy, sub-humans in the east had to wait for Reagan to liberate them, and Hitler strikes me as a secret Bolshevik anyway - it is simpler that way.

    WWII is a problematic event, the wrong people won as far as West is concerned. After 75 years, lots of forgetting, and soft propaganda from Hollywood, the history has to be changed.

    Germany was defeated on a small beach in Normandy, sub-humans in the east had to wait for Reagan to liberate them, and Hitler strikes me as a secret Bolshevik anyway – it is simpler that way.

    Yep, you are absolutely correct. Some of the things these commemorations try to camouflage is that:

    1.one of Churchill’s biggest successes was preventing braindead, one-dimensional Americans from forcing Britain in 1941/42 to jointly storm Northern France. At the moment it is presented as if the Americans “seized the moment” for D-Day in 1944 and persuaded /forced a reluctant Churchill to along with it – when in reality hotheaded Americans had wanted to do it practically from the very beginning of entering the war. Fighting the Nazi’s via North Africa and then Italy were completely opposite the Americans thinking. American tactics= Nazi victory or at least , advantage.

    2. France is only 40km from UK . I would guess the average westerner has never thought of how far the distance is from say, Stalingrad to Bratislava or Praga that many Russian soldiers went and drove back the Nazis…compared to the 40 km ( plus Channel Island occupation) via sea that the British took years to travel through…..for reasons that could only be connected to the rate of the Red Army progress through Europe.

    I would say there is a propaganda campaign to prevent them thinking about the small distance between UK and France ……and disingenuous timing of the operation

  170. @AP
    Do not label your confusion (fake?) as alleged "incoherence."

    murdered 100,000s of Poles and imposed a repressive regime upon them for decades.

    When? How? Are you saying that 100,000s of Poles were killed in Poland by Russians after WWII?
     

    100,000s of Poles were killed by Soviets after 1939 when they invaded Poland. What number were murdered after 1943 I do not feel like researching.

    There were 3 million members of the Polish Communist Party.
     
    No kidding. How many Nazis would there be in France, England, etc. if Germany won? How many Jewish kapos were there, for that matter?

    …What number were murdered after 1943 I do not feel like researching.

    In other words, you were caught lying. There were not ‘100,000s’ killed after WWII in Poland. End of story. You made it up.

    If you think that 3 million Polish communists are a ‘joke’, your reasoning ability is even worse than I have thought. American education by any chance?

    • Replies: @AP

    …What number were murdered after 1943 I do not feel like researching.

    In other words, you were caught lying. There were not ‘100,000s’ killed after WWII in Poland. End of story. You made it up.
     
    LOL, you have just caught yourself lying.

    I never claimed that 100,000s of Poles were killed after World War II. I stated "It is not a fantasy that Poland was brutalized by the Soviets, who murdered 100,000s of Poles and imposed a repressive regime upon them for decades." in reference to the discussion of M-R and the division of Poland in 1939.

    So you are back to lying as usual. I guess you can't help yourself. Sovok upbringing?

    Or do you not know the difference between 19309 and after World War II? Slovak educational system?

    If you think that 3 million Polish communists are a ‘joke’,
     
    A sick joke, to be sure.

    How many were communists when they didn't have to be?
  171. AP says:
    @Beckow

    ...What number were murdered after 1943 I do not feel like researching.
     
    In other words, you were caught lying. There were not '100,000s' killed after WWII in Poland. End of story. You made it up.

    If you think that 3 million Polish communists are a 'joke', your reasoning ability is even worse than I have thought. American education by any chance?

    …What number were murdered after 1943 I do not feel like researching.

    In other words, you were caught lying. There were not ‘100,000s’ killed after WWII in Poland. End of story. You made it up.

    LOL, you have just caught yourself lying.

    I never claimed that 100,000s of Poles were killed after World War II. I stated “It is not a fantasy that Poland was brutalized by the Soviets, who murdered 100,000s of Poles and imposed a repressive regime upon them for decades.” in reference to the discussion of M-R and the division of Poland in 1939.

    So you are back to lying as usual. I guess you can’t help yourself. Sovok upbringing?

    Or do you not know the difference between 19309 and after World War II? Slovak educational system?

    If you think that 3 million Polish communists are a ‘joke’,

    A sick joke, to be sure.

    How many were communists when they didn’t have to be?

    • Replies: @utu

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_repressions_of_Polish_citizens_(1939–1946)
    It is estimated that at least 150,000 Polish citizens died during the Soviet occupation.[3] It is a conservative estimate confirmed by analysis, while the unconfirmed number proposed by Prof. Czesław Łuczak reaches 500,000.[5]

    By the time German-Soviet alliance was broken and the new war erupted, the Soviets had already arrested and imprisoned about 500,000 Polish nationals in the Kresy macroregion including civic officials, military personnel and all other "enemies of the people" such as clergy and the Polish educators: about one in ten of all adult males. There is some controversy as to whether the Soviet Union's policies were harsher than those of Nazi Germany until that time.

    In 1940 and the first half of 1941, the Soviets deported a total of more than 1,200,000 Poles in four waves of mass deportations from the Soviet-occupied Polish territories. The first major operation took place on February 10, 1940, with more than 220,000 people sent primarily to far north and east Russia, including Siberia and Khabarovsk Krai. The second wave of 13 April 1940, consisted of 320,000 people sent primarily to Kazakhstan. The third wave of June–July 1940 totaled more than 240,000. The fourth and final wave occurred in June 1941, deporting 300,000.
     

    The question whether more Poles were killed by Soviets in their occupation zone than Germans in their zone before June 22, 1941 is not an abstract one. There are some estimates that Soviets occupation costed more lives between Sept 17, 1939 and June 22, 1941 than German occupation. When Germans move in June 1941 people were relieved. Mass graves were opened and bodies of those killed by NKVD were exhumed. With the exception of Jews who cooperated with Soviets everybody preferred German occupation.

    The question how many Poles were killed by Soviets when Red Army reentered Polish pre WW II territories in 1944 is a good one. Can it be 100,000? The roundups began right away after the front passed. Then there were repressions and the liquidation of the underground when Poland nominally had its own government however all top officers of security apparatus were of Soviet/Jewish origin and nobody in Poland, except for few deranged creatures like Beckow here who were spawn by the communist system, would consider them being Polish.

    Poland's takeover by communists was not a smooth operation like in Czechoslovakia which was a country with the highest per capita communist party membership in 1940s. In particular Slovak's were very earnest to help read Army and NKVD as they were busy at switching their loyalty from Nazi supporters and hoping that by displaying their servility Soviets will not be too harsh on them for their often enthusiastic cooperations with Nazis. (This can be elaborated.)

    Beckow's attitude with respect to Poland who he seems to hate Poland with his guts probably can be explained by Chesterton observation:


    I judged the Poles by their enemies. And I found it was an almost unfailing truth that their enemies were the enemies of magnanimity and manhood. If a man loved slavery, if he loved usury, if he loved terrorism and all the trampled mire of materialistic politics, I have always found that he added to these affections the passion of a hatred of Poland. She could be judged in the light of that hatred; and the judgment has proved to be right. G. K. Chesterton
    https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/G._K._Chesterton#cite_note-2
     
    Slovak Sovoks do not know what magnanimity and manhood are.
  172. utu says:
    @AP

    …What number were murdered after 1943 I do not feel like researching.

    In other words, you were caught lying. There were not ‘100,000s’ killed after WWII in Poland. End of story. You made it up.
     
    LOL, you have just caught yourself lying.

    I never claimed that 100,000s of Poles were killed after World War II. I stated "It is not a fantasy that Poland was brutalized by the Soviets, who murdered 100,000s of Poles and imposed a repressive regime upon them for decades." in reference to the discussion of M-R and the division of Poland in 1939.

    So you are back to lying as usual. I guess you can't help yourself. Sovok upbringing?

    Or do you not know the difference between 19309 and after World War II? Slovak educational system?

    If you think that 3 million Polish communists are a ‘joke’,
     
    A sick joke, to be sure.

    How many were communists when they didn't have to be?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_repressions_of_Polish_citizens_(1939–1946)
    It is estimated that at least 150,000 Polish citizens died during the Soviet occupation.[3] It is a conservative estimate confirmed by analysis, while the unconfirmed number proposed by Prof. Czesław Łuczak reaches 500,000.[5]

    By the time German-Soviet alliance was broken and the new war erupted, the Soviets had already arrested and imprisoned about 500,000 Polish nationals in the Kresy macroregion including civic officials, military personnel and all other “enemies of the people” such as clergy and the Polish educators: about one in ten of all adult males. There is some controversy as to whether the Soviet Union’s policies were harsher than those of Nazi Germany until that time.

    In 1940 and the first half of 1941, the Soviets deported a total of more than 1,200,000 Poles in four waves of mass deportations from the Soviet-occupied Polish territories. The first major operation took place on February 10, 1940, with more than 220,000 people sent primarily to far north and east Russia, including Siberia and Khabarovsk Krai. The second wave of 13 April 1940, consisted of 320,000 people sent primarily to Kazakhstan. The third wave of June–July 1940 totaled more than 240,000. The fourth and final wave occurred in June 1941, deporting 300,000.

    The question whether more Poles were killed by Soviets in their occupation zone than Germans in their zone before June 22, 1941 is not an abstract one. There are some estimates that Soviets occupation costed more lives between Sept 17, 1939 and June 22, 1941 than German occupation. When Germans move in June 1941 people were relieved. Mass graves were opened and bodies of those killed by NKVD were exhumed. With the exception of Jews who cooperated with Soviets everybody preferred German occupation.

    The question how many Poles were killed by Soviets when Red Army reentered Polish pre WW II territories in 1944 is a good one. Can it be 100,000? The roundups began right away after the front passed. Then there were repressions and the liquidation of the underground when Poland nominally had its own government however all top officers of security apparatus were of Soviet/Jewish origin and nobody in Poland, except for few deranged creatures like Beckow here who were spawn by the communist system, would consider them being Polish.

    Poland’s takeover by communists was not a smooth operation like in Czechoslovakia which was a country with the highest per capita communist party membership in 1940s. In particular Slovak’s were very earnest to help read Army and NKVD as they were busy at switching their loyalty from Nazi supporters and hoping that by displaying their servility Soviets will not be too harsh on them for their often enthusiastic cooperations with Nazis. (This can be elaborated.)

    Beckow’s attitude with respect to Poland who he seems to hate Poland with his guts probably can be explained by Chesterton observation:

    I judged the Poles by their enemies. And I found it was an almost unfailing truth that their enemies were the enemies of magnanimity and manhood. If a man loved slavery, if he loved usury, if he loved terrorism and all the trampled mire of materialistic politics, I have always found that he added to these affections the passion of a hatred of Poland. She could be judged in the light of that hatred; and the judgment has proved to be right. G. K. Chesterton
    https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/G._K._Chesterton#cite_note-2

    Slovak Sovoks do not know what magnanimity and manhood are.

    • Agree: AP
    • Disagree: Mikhail
    • Replies: @Mikhail
    Is Beckow actually a sovok? Chesterton oversimplifies from reality.
    , @Thulean Friend
    Does anyone take Beckow seriously? He is a mentally ill person.
    , @Beckow

    ...Can it be 100,000?
     
    No, it can't be and it wasn't. Soviets simply didn't kill 100,000 Poles in Poland after WWII. If you want to compare WWII casualties you are doing it to create a false image - Russians also lost millions in WWII. The way AP tries to link it - and then awkwardly pretends that's not what he was saying - is an attempt to conflate things and create a false history.

    The 3 million Polish communists were real - this was all the way till 1989. Own up to it, and stop pretending that there was a Russian army in Warsaw on every corner shooting people who wanted to pray - that's complete nonsense. The tens of thousands of top Polish commie officials couldn't be all Jews or 'Soviets' - they were Poles. Polish communism had a substantial domestic base.


    probably can be explained by Chesterton observation
     
    Probably not. People - even famous people - make all kinds of generic statements that are based on basically nothing. And 'wiki' for history? why don't you just read us State Dept press releases as divine truth? I genuinely have no idea what the term 'sovok' means - you might as well call me a Hun or pirate, it has no meaning.

    You are not interested in what really happened. I am. When I see people lying because they are emotional and angry, I try to correct them. Poles do that here all the time - they are beside themselves with their hatred of anything Russian (and now Slovak or Czech?), and anyone who doesn't join in is equally hated. It is a form of a mental disease, and it never ends well. Get a hold of reality, stop making up things, own up to your own misdeeds, and then we can move on. Until then it seems Poland is just itching to replay its bloody history. Why?

    You are even wrong about minor stuff like:


    Czechoslovakia which was a country with the highest per capita communist party membership in 1940s. In particular Slovak’s were very earnest to help read Army
     
    Actually, no. You have it upside down. Czechs voted for commies 40% in 1946, Slovaks 30%. Slovaks are more religious and they were the 'problem' people initially for communists - see the 'bourgeois nationalist' trials in Slovakia in the early 50's. The communist heartland was Prague and its intellectuals (Milan Kundera and co.), large Czech industrial cities like Plzen, Ostrava, and the newly settled Sudetenland. It is true that communists won free elections in Czechoslovakia, what everyone is trying to forget that there was a huge pro-communist wave all over Europe (Italy, France,...) after WWII. It was real and it led to dramatic changes like welfare, higher living standards, medical care, etc... Why do you all pretend that this didn't happen? Even Poles had strong commie sympathies at that time.
    , @Gerard2

    The question whether more Poles were killed by Soviets in their occupation zone than Germans in their zone before June 22, 1941 is not an abstract one.
     
    Indeed...it is a defunct stupid one. Nazi's killed millions of Poles, the Soviets a fraction of that. What type of cretin would even try and debate that? Soviets didn't target civilians but mainly the polish elite - perhaps the biggest load of self-destructive,war-creating , fascist, dumb idiots on the planet, historically speaking.

    How embarassing it is that Banderatards killed more Poles in a matter of weeks than the Soviets did in near 50 years ( or 200 years of Russian rule)...or the Germans killed millions of Poles in a relatively short space of time.....aided by the near french levels of inept fighting put up the Polish Army

    Anyway deportations are nowhere near as dramatic as you make out you idiot. Huge swathes of Russia's current elite come from deportations ( Gref, Simonyan to name a couple of many)

    Poland’s takeover by communists was not a smooth operation like in Czechoslovakia
     
    It was fine. Many normal Poles were eternally grateful to Russia for liberating and rebuilding the country. in 1989 about a third of Poles were for communism, a third weren't bothered and the remaining third were anti-Russian.
  173. anon[142] • Disclaimer says:

    “Any new technology, comparable to deep learning in 1986, might bear fruit around 2040 or so. I have not heard of any such thing.”

    That would be quantum computing. It’s true that many processes run on QCs are no faster than classical computers, but the processes that count (many involved in deeplearning) are and could be adapted to the quantum architecture and then experience a sudden, dramatic improvement. This may first come from relatively primitive by future standards but large government-funded machines built by the US, China, or Japan. Alternatively, light-based computers could make machines much more energy efficient and thus much easier to scale three dimensionally. I expect the next ai winter to be more of a cold-snap than an ice age with China getting heavily into computer science and mathematics.

    • Replies: @Abelard Lindsey
    Well, I think quantum computing is another hype.

    One of the requirements of quantum computation that is not often clarified is that it has to be done near absolute zero temperature (like milliKelvin degrees). This is to inhibit the brownian motion of the atoms enough to read and write to them using quantum processes. Note this is not the usual cryogenics that uses LN2, which is cheap and easy. Rather, this is liquid Hydrogen stuff essentially at absolute zero, which is expensive and difficult to do.
  174. @utu

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_repressions_of_Polish_citizens_(1939–1946)
    It is estimated that at least 150,000 Polish citizens died during the Soviet occupation.[3] It is a conservative estimate confirmed by analysis, while the unconfirmed number proposed by Prof. Czesław Łuczak reaches 500,000.[5]

    By the time German-Soviet alliance was broken and the new war erupted, the Soviets had already arrested and imprisoned about 500,000 Polish nationals in the Kresy macroregion including civic officials, military personnel and all other "enemies of the people" such as clergy and the Polish educators: about one in ten of all adult males. There is some controversy as to whether the Soviet Union's policies were harsher than those of Nazi Germany until that time.

    In 1940 and the first half of 1941, the Soviets deported a total of more than 1,200,000 Poles in four waves of mass deportations from the Soviet-occupied Polish territories. The first major operation took place on February 10, 1940, with more than 220,000 people sent primarily to far north and east Russia, including Siberia and Khabarovsk Krai. The second wave of 13 April 1940, consisted of 320,000 people sent primarily to Kazakhstan. The third wave of June–July 1940 totaled more than 240,000. The fourth and final wave occurred in June 1941, deporting 300,000.
     

    The question whether more Poles were killed by Soviets in their occupation zone than Germans in their zone before June 22, 1941 is not an abstract one. There are some estimates that Soviets occupation costed more lives between Sept 17, 1939 and June 22, 1941 than German occupation. When Germans move in June 1941 people were relieved. Mass graves were opened and bodies of those killed by NKVD were exhumed. With the exception of Jews who cooperated with Soviets everybody preferred German occupation.

    The question how many Poles were killed by Soviets when Red Army reentered Polish pre WW II territories in 1944 is a good one. Can it be 100,000? The roundups began right away after the front passed. Then there were repressions and the liquidation of the underground when Poland nominally had its own government however all top officers of security apparatus were of Soviet/Jewish origin and nobody in Poland, except for few deranged creatures like Beckow here who were spawn by the communist system, would consider them being Polish.

    Poland's takeover by communists was not a smooth operation like in Czechoslovakia which was a country with the highest per capita communist party membership in 1940s. In particular Slovak's were very earnest to help read Army and NKVD as they were busy at switching their loyalty from Nazi supporters and hoping that by displaying their servility Soviets will not be too harsh on them for their often enthusiastic cooperations with Nazis. (This can be elaborated.)

    Beckow's attitude with respect to Poland who he seems to hate Poland with his guts probably can be explained by Chesterton observation:


    I judged the Poles by their enemies. And I found it was an almost unfailing truth that their enemies were the enemies of magnanimity and manhood. If a man loved slavery, if he loved usury, if he loved terrorism and all the trampled mire of materialistic politics, I have always found that he added to these affections the passion of a hatred of Poland. She could be judged in the light of that hatred; and the judgment has proved to be right. G. K. Chesterton
    https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/G._K._Chesterton#cite_note-2
     
    Slovak Sovoks do not know what magnanimity and manhood are.

    Is Beckow actually a sovok? Chesterton oversimplifies from reality.

  175. I read the piece about the Su-57. I don’t think it’s better than the F-22 or the F-35 (though it didn’t really argue this), or that Russian industry’s limitations played no role in how it turned out, but overall I agree that it’s potentially a good fighter jet, tailored to Russia’s (and the potential export markets’) specific needs.

    My issue was that the program didn’t seem to be moving forward and getting finished. Russian inability to finish and deploy major weapons systems from scratch seemed to be a severe impediment to its ability to counter Globohomo military power. So overall that’s good news.

  176. @Beckow
    I think 'emotional' might not quite capture the hateful mental state that so many Poles are in. As if they were rabid dogs, infected and angry, lashing out. It could be related to widespread diabetes or something genetical.

    The 'lack of help for Warsaw uprising' is a good one historically. In 1943 Polish exile government broke diplomatic relations with Soviet Union. They publicly denounced Russia and said 'we will liberate Warsaw ourselves' and 'we will defend it against Russians or anyone'. A year later they started an uprising in Warsaw on their own against Germans. It was a catastrophe, they got slaughtered. After it was obvious that they were going to be defeated, they desperately reached to Russians who were fighting their way through eastern Poland and begged them to come and 'save Warsaw'. They never ceased to call Russians an enemy, they never stopped the hateful rhetoric. Russians didn't save them, read Churchill memoirs about what he thought about this level of idiocy. There is a lesson there somewhere.

    Russians didn’t save them, read Churchill memoirs about what he thought about this level of idiocy. There is a lesson there somewhere.

    First information that’s given me any interest in reading Churchill’s memoirs. I don’t know if I’d go as far as Irving’s depiction of him, but he’s certainly one of the overhyped political figures of the 20th Century. Mainly he was a narrow-minded and boorish drunkard of which nearly all his original military ideas failed spectacularly.

    I only remember Orwell trashing his tortured writing style in the following quote from ‘Politics and the English Language’: “The soft underbelly of Italy is the achille’s heel of the German octopus”, or something along those lines.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    Churchill was, of course, a degenerate drunk moron, overbred end-of-liner and wanna-be snob, quite British in a way.

    But he played his role in WWII, and his memoirs are useful because he described it shortly after 1945 I and there was still not much room to make up stuff. Today we are fully in the Polish method of history by omission in the West, so Churchill is much better. He was also a good writer, his style is genuinely good.


    “The soft underbelly of Italy is the achille’s heel of the German octopus”
     
    That's the kind of nonsense with flowery analogies that unfortunately still drives Western policies and education. The real problem are not the zillions of ignorant garbage-eating know-nothings in the Western trailer parks. The real problem are the so-called elite intellectuals who mostly lost the ability to use critical thinking and live in made-up worlds of fake analogies (Hitler anyone?), geographic infantilism (let's take over the Russian bases in Crimea on the cheap), and increasing psychotic paranoia ('don't write bad stuff about Hillary on my Facebook, or you are a spy!!!').
  177. @Beckow

    What about the part to invade Poland from opposite sides and meet in the middle?
     
    Middle of what? What part of Poland did Soviets occupy in 1939? When I look on the map all of that territory is in Ukraine and Belarus. It was grabbed by Poland in the 1920 war. The population then and now is Ukrainian and Belorussian.

    What you say makes no sense. Not a single square inch of Poland was touched by Soviets in 1939. They did liberate dying Poland in 1944 at a cost of half million soldiers. In the meantime Germans killed about 5 million Poles. Poland's Western allies looked on and wrote editorials. Not a single American or Englishman died helping Poland in WWII.

    I did not know that until now. Russia unfairly lost land to Poland after WWI, and they were trying to reclaim it. Sort of like the Russian Danzig.

    • Replies: @AP
    None of those were Russian-inhabited lands, unlike Danzig which was inhabited by Germans. There were many more ethnic Poles than ethnic Russians living in those lands.

    Polish rule meant being saved from Stalin-era genocide.

    , @Beckow
    You didn't know because Poles have worked overtime to hide the fact that the areas taken over in 1939 by the Soviets are all in Belarus and Ukraine. They are not Poland, and they are not Russia. Poles like to leave out stuff that undermines their narratives, like Polish participation in Munich, Friendship Treaty with Hitler, refusal to even talk to Soviets, etc...
  178. Russia is ready to fill the gap created by the trade war, and start exporting food items from poultry to soybeans to China.

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3013549/russia-ready-fill-chinas-food-gap-left-us-trade-war-fallout

  179. Romanians decided that they needed to build a monument to Romanian soldiers in the middle of a Hungarian-German (mostly WW1) military cemetery in Transylvania. No Romanian soldiers are buried there, but I guess they just want to desecrate the cemetery.

    This is a huge issue now, and caused a spat between the two governments.

    I occasionally wonder if there’s anything wrong with Romanians which a really thorough genocide couldn’t cure.

    • LOL: Anatoly Karlin
  180. The commenter for-the-record seems to have disappeared. I hope he’s okay.

    • Replies: @for-the-record
    The commenter for-the-record seems to have disappeared. I hope he’s okay.

    I'm touched that you noticed my absence, seriously. I'm alive and well, just have had nothing useful to say for a while. And watering my banana trees (they are herbs actually, I assume everyone here is aware of that) has taken more time than usual given the lack of rain.
  181. @Hippopotamusdrome
    I did not know that until now. Russia unfairly lost land to Poland after WWI, and they were trying to reclaim it. Sort of like the Russian Danzig.

    None of those were Russian-inhabited lands, unlike Danzig which was inhabited by Germans. There were many more ethnic Poles than ethnic Russians living in those lands.

    Polish rule meant being saved from Stalin-era genocide.

    • Replies: @Gerard2

    None of those were Russian-inhabited lands, unlike Danzig which was inhabited by Germans. There were many more ethnic Poles than ethnic Russians living in those lands.

    Polish rule meant being saved from Stalin-era genocide.

     

    A straightforward lie...........but what else could be expected from the shameless author or a series of stupid posts........particularly the BIZARRE one showing a shocking lack of ANY knowledge of Russian language
    , @Mikhail

    Polish rule meant being saved from Stalin-era genocide.
     
    That G word is often hyperbolic, along the lines of 1990s former Yugo, as well as to what happened to the Crimean Tatars and Ukrainians - said without meaning to belittle the level of mistreatment which was evident.

    To a noticeable extent, Polish rule between the two world wars was something not favored among the larger non-Polish ethnic groups in Poland at the time.

    As has been previously noted, during the Russian Civil War, the Galician Ukrainian Army en masse preferred the Russian Whites over the Pilsudski led Poles. The Soviet takeover of Ukrainian inhabited former Habsburg/former Polish territory was bungled. By and large, these Ukrainians weren't gung ho living under Polish occupation. The heavy handed Soviet treatment of them greatly influenced their anti-Soviet mindset, which granted had existed beforehand.

  182. @Daniel Chieh
    You're a moron who didn't even read the article you shared. The actual artifacts have been examined in detail, even had their specific chemical composition analyzed:

    https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.381.8552


    https://eic.rsc.org/feature/chemistry-unearths-the-secrets-of-the-terracotta-army/2000074.article

    even had their specific chemical composition analyzed

    https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.381.8552

    The analysis showed that the figures were painted with “Chinese Purple”. The paper then states that the manufacture of Chinese Purple is “highly complex” and that, to them, it is a “mystery” that such an advanced process is used at that early era.

    From the paper:

    The process to synthesize [Chinese Purple] is now known to be highly complex … and how the early Chinese chemists managed to synthesize barium copper silicates in an almost pure form, even preceding the invention of paper and the compass, is a mystery.

    They offer the explanation that “Taoist alchemists” invented the process.

    They also note that Chinese Purple ceases to be used during later dynasties as its manufacture is, to them, too “high-tech” for even the talented China post Han dynasty. They explain this with a Chinese dark ages caused by the abandonment of Taoism.

    The influence of Taoism started to diminish during the Han dynasty. … We believe that this is why few (if any) Chinese Purple or Chinese Blue pigments were used in the later dynasties. Without the support of the government and rich individuals, such a complicated “high-tech” operation was not feasible.

    The researches state that manufacture of Chinese Purple seems too sophisticated for the era (words enigma and mystery are used) and that it is even too sophisticated for later eras like post Han when China was supposed to literally be inventing everything according to wikipedia. But they are certain that the statues are from 200BC so they need to come up with an explanation, which is the art of Taoist alchemy that later comes to be lost.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Taoists were known for creating dyes and various other chemicals, but did not usually document their methods. But the creation of porcelain and gunpowder from the era demonstrates that their accomplishments and legacy.

    And China had other burial armies during the time period:

    https://www.travelchinaguide.com/attraction/shaanxi/xian/hanyang.htm

    https://www.livescience.com/64071-mini-terracotta-army-discovered-china.html

    You're allowed to be obsessed with your fantasy world, as it clearly compensates for something in your sad life.

  183. The fundamental problem for US conservatives is that they don’t understand that capitalism is in many ways the antithesis of what they seek.

    It wasn’t always like this. The US conservatism had great thinkers who were highly critical of materialism. All that went out the window by the Cold war and still hasn’t recovered.

  184. @utu

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_repressions_of_Polish_citizens_(1939–1946)
    It is estimated that at least 150,000 Polish citizens died during the Soviet occupation.[3] It is a conservative estimate confirmed by analysis, while the unconfirmed number proposed by Prof. Czesław Łuczak reaches 500,000.[5]

    By the time German-Soviet alliance was broken and the new war erupted, the Soviets had already arrested and imprisoned about 500,000 Polish nationals in the Kresy macroregion including civic officials, military personnel and all other "enemies of the people" such as clergy and the Polish educators: about one in ten of all adult males. There is some controversy as to whether the Soviet Union's policies were harsher than those of Nazi Germany until that time.

    In 1940 and the first half of 1941, the Soviets deported a total of more than 1,200,000 Poles in four waves of mass deportations from the Soviet-occupied Polish territories. The first major operation took place on February 10, 1940, with more than 220,000 people sent primarily to far north and east Russia, including Siberia and Khabarovsk Krai. The second wave of 13 April 1940, consisted of 320,000 people sent primarily to Kazakhstan. The third wave of June–July 1940 totaled more than 240,000. The fourth and final wave occurred in June 1941, deporting 300,000.
     

    The question whether more Poles were killed by Soviets in their occupation zone than Germans in their zone before June 22, 1941 is not an abstract one. There are some estimates that Soviets occupation costed more lives between Sept 17, 1939 and June 22, 1941 than German occupation. When Germans move in June 1941 people were relieved. Mass graves were opened and bodies of those killed by NKVD were exhumed. With the exception of Jews who cooperated with Soviets everybody preferred German occupation.

    The question how many Poles were killed by Soviets when Red Army reentered Polish pre WW II territories in 1944 is a good one. Can it be 100,000? The roundups began right away after the front passed. Then there were repressions and the liquidation of the underground when Poland nominally had its own government however all top officers of security apparatus were of Soviet/Jewish origin and nobody in Poland, except for few deranged creatures like Beckow here who were spawn by the communist system, would consider them being Polish.

    Poland's takeover by communists was not a smooth operation like in Czechoslovakia which was a country with the highest per capita communist party membership in 1940s. In particular Slovak's were very earnest to help read Army and NKVD as they were busy at switching their loyalty from Nazi supporters and hoping that by displaying their servility Soviets will not be too harsh on them for their often enthusiastic cooperations with Nazis. (This can be elaborated.)

    Beckow's attitude with respect to Poland who he seems to hate Poland with his guts probably can be explained by Chesterton observation:


    I judged the Poles by their enemies. And I found it was an almost unfailing truth that their enemies were the enemies of magnanimity and manhood. If a man loved slavery, if he loved usury, if he loved terrorism and all the trampled mire of materialistic politics, I have always found that he added to these affections the passion of a hatred of Poland. She could be judged in the light of that hatred; and the judgment has proved to be right. G. K. Chesterton
    https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/G._K._Chesterton#cite_note-2
     
    Slovak Sovoks do not know what magnanimity and manhood are.

    Does anyone take Beckow seriously? He is a mentally ill person.

  185. @Anatoly Karlin
    On auto-driving - Yandex is looking fairly good (extra points for this being on crowded city streets):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx08yRsR9ow

    Yes, but I still maintain that autonomous driving requires that the automation be built into the roads as well as the cars themselves. Having it in both makes for increased redundancy, which is critical for safety.

  186. @anon
    "Any new technology, comparable to deep learning in 1986, might bear fruit around 2040 or so. I have not heard of any such thing."

    That would be quantum computing. It's true that many processes run on QCs are no faster than classical computers, but the processes that count (many involved in deeplearning) are and could be adapted to the quantum architecture and then experience a sudden, dramatic improvement. This may first come from relatively primitive by future standards but large government-funded machines built by the US, China, or Japan. Alternatively, light-based computers could make machines much more energy efficient and thus much easier to scale three dimensionally. I expect the next ai winter to be more of a cold-snap than an ice age with China getting heavily into computer science and mathematics.

    Well, I think quantum computing is another hype.

    One of the requirements of quantum computation that is not often clarified is that it has to be done near absolute zero temperature (like milliKelvin degrees). This is to inhibit the brownian motion of the atoms enough to read and write to them using quantum processes. Note this is not the usual cryogenics that uses LN2, which is cheap and easy. Rather, this is liquid Hydrogen stuff essentially at absolute zero, which is expensive and difficult to do.

  187. @utu

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_repressions_of_Polish_citizens_(1939–1946)
    It is estimated that at least 150,000 Polish citizens died during the Soviet occupation.[3] It is a conservative estimate confirmed by analysis, while the unconfirmed number proposed by Prof. Czesław Łuczak reaches 500,000.[5]

    By the time German-Soviet alliance was broken and the new war erupted, the Soviets had already arrested and imprisoned about 500,000 Polish nationals in the Kresy macroregion including civic officials, military personnel and all other "enemies of the people" such as clergy and the Polish educators: about one in ten of all adult males. There is some controversy as to whether the Soviet Union's policies were harsher than those of Nazi Germany until that time.

    In 1940 and the first half of 1941, the Soviets deported a total of more than 1,200,000 Poles in four waves of mass deportations from the Soviet-occupied Polish territories. The first major operation took place on February 10, 1940, with more than 220,000 people sent primarily to far north and east Russia, including Siberia and Khabarovsk Krai. The second wave of 13 April 1940, consisted of 320,000 people sent primarily to Kazakhstan. The third wave of June–July 1940 totaled more than 240,000. The fourth and final wave occurred in June 1941, deporting 300,000.
     

    The question whether more Poles were killed by Soviets in their occupation zone than Germans in their zone before June 22, 1941 is not an abstract one. There are some estimates that Soviets occupation costed more lives between Sept 17, 1939 and June 22, 1941 than German occupation. When Germans move in June 1941 people were relieved. Mass graves were opened and bodies of those killed by NKVD were exhumed. With the exception of Jews who cooperated with Soviets everybody preferred German occupation.

    The question how many Poles were killed by Soviets when Red Army reentered Polish pre WW II territories in 1944 is a good one. Can it be 100,000? The roundups began right away after the front passed. Then there were repressions and the liquidation of the underground when Poland nominally had its own government however all top officers of security apparatus were of Soviet/Jewish origin and nobody in Poland, except for few deranged creatures like Beckow here who were spawn by the communist system, would consider them being Polish.

    Poland's takeover by communists was not a smooth operation like in Czechoslovakia which was a country with the highest per capita communist party membership in 1940s. In particular Slovak's were very earnest to help read Army and NKVD as they were busy at switching their loyalty from Nazi supporters and hoping that by displaying their servility Soviets will not be too harsh on them for their often enthusiastic cooperations with Nazis. (This can be elaborated.)

    Beckow's attitude with respect to Poland who he seems to hate Poland with his guts probably can be explained by Chesterton observation:


    I judged the Poles by their enemies. And I found it was an almost unfailing truth that their enemies were the enemies of magnanimity and manhood. If a man loved slavery, if he loved usury, if he loved terrorism and all the trampled mire of materialistic politics, I have always found that he added to these affections the passion of a hatred of Poland. She could be judged in the light of that hatred; and the judgment has proved to be right. G. K. Chesterton
    https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/G._K._Chesterton#cite_note-2
     
    Slovak Sovoks do not know what magnanimity and manhood are.

    …Can it be 100,000?

    No, it can’t be and it wasn’t. Soviets simply didn’t kill 100,000 Poles in Poland after WWII. If you want to compare WWII casualties you are doing it to create a false image – Russians also lost millions in WWII. The way AP tries to link it – and then awkwardly pretends that’s not what he was saying – is an attempt to conflate things and create a false history.

    The 3 million Polish communists were real – this was all the way till 1989. Own up to it, and stop pretending that there was a Russian army in Warsaw on every corner shooting people who wanted to pray – that’s complete nonsense. The tens of thousands of top Polish commie officials couldn’t be all Jews or ‘Soviets’ – they were Poles. Polish communism had a substantial domestic base.

    probably can be explained by Chesterton observation

    Probably not. People – even famous people – make all kinds of generic statements that are based on basically nothing. And ‘wiki’ for history? why don’t you just read us State Dept press releases as divine truth? I genuinely have no idea what the term ‘sovok‘ means – you might as well call me a Hun or pirate, it has no meaning.

    You are not interested in what really happened. I am. When I see people lying because they are emotional and angry, I try to correct them. Poles do that here all the time – they are beside themselves with their hatred of anything Russian (and now Slovak or Czech?), and anyone who doesn’t join in is equally hated. It is a form of a mental disease, and it never ends well. Get a hold of reality, stop making up things, own up to your own misdeeds, and then we can move on. Until then it seems Poland is just itching to replay its bloody history. Why?

    You are even wrong about minor stuff like:

    Czechoslovakia which was a country with the highest per capita communist party membership in 1940s. In particular Slovak’s were very earnest to help read Army

    Actually, no. You have it upside down. Czechs voted for commies 40% in 1946, Slovaks 30%. Slovaks are more religious and they were the ‘problem‘ people initially for communists – see the ‘bourgeois nationalist’ trials in Slovakia in the early 50’s. The communist heartland was Prague and its intellectuals (Milan Kundera and co.), large Czech industrial cities like Plzen, Ostrava, and the newly settled Sudetenland. It is true that communists won free elections in Czechoslovakia, what everyone is trying to forget that there was a huge pro-communist wave all over Europe (Italy, France,…) after WWII. It was real and it led to dramatic changes like welfare, higher living standards, medical care, etc… Why do you all pretend that this didn’t happen? Even Poles had strong commie sympathies at that time.

    • Replies: @AP

    The way AP tries to link it – and then awkwardly pretends that’s not what he was saying
     
    You are repeating your lie.

    I straightforwardly mentioned 100,000s of killed Poles in reference to the invasion of Poland by Soviets in 1939. You kept bringing up post-World War II, trying to be sneaky.

    The 3 million Polish communists were real – this was all the way till 1989
     
    Any country brutally occupied by Communists would have millions of Communist Party members eventually. It means nothing, except that Poland was occupied and had no hope of freeing itself.
    , @utu
    (1) 100,000? - Maybe not. But one can easily argue 50,000 of Poles killed after 1944 when Red Army reentered pre WWII Polish territory. This includes the ones who never returned from mass deportations of 1944, 1945, 1946. In 1945 form Silesia alone up 70,000 people were deported to USSR. They were Germans, Silesians and Poles. Many miners who were sent to mines in USSR. It is believed that only 20% returned.

    (2) "Russians also lost millions in WWII." - So what. BTW, the numbers could have been lower if (a) Red Army had a better tactic and (2) if Stalin did not unleash senseless partisan warfare in Belarus and Ukraine to provoke German retaliations to arrest the process of local populations cozying up with German occupiers.

    (3) "Poles do that here all the time – they are beside themselves with their hatred of anything Russian (and now Slovak or Czech?)." - Take some medication. You are lashing out blindly.

    (4) "It is a form of a mental disease" - Projection.

    (5) "You are not interested in what really happened. " - Projection. I do know what really happened as I have research the issues for many years. My interest waned since. The only reason I entered this discussion was as a corrective measure to your emotional outbursts.

    (6) "The 3 million Polish communists were real" - I had to research it. This number is for 1980. During Gierek's regime time of prosperity there was a drive to recruit more party members mostly among low intelligentsia. They could not get workers. Mostly opportunists. People were getting passport to travel West where they would earn some extra money to buy a car or apartment. Being a party member getting passport was easier. These people were no communists. In 1970 the membership was circa 2 millions. And we know how it ended. With Solidarity in 1980 when 800,000 people quit party membership.

    Since assuming power in 1948, the KSČ had one of the largest per capita membership rolls in the communist world (11 percent of the population).

    Despite this attrition, a membership of "almost 1,200,000" was claimed in the spring of 1971 for a country with an estimated population of approximately 14.5 million—still one of the highest Communist party membership rates in the world on a percentage basis at that time.

    Party leaders at the Seventeenth Party Congress in 1986 urged the recruitment of more workers, young people, and women. In 1981 it had 1,538,179 members (10% of the population)
     
    (7) "It was real and it led to dramatic changes like welfare, higher living standards, medical care, etc… Why do you all pretend that this didn’t happen? " - I know. We heard of your grandma's new dentures gifted to her by commies. While on the other side of the Iron Curtain people were toothless.

    (8) "Even Poles had strong commie sympathies at that time." - Some did. Majority did not.

    (9) "Czechs voted for commies 40% in 1946, Slovaks 30%. Slovaks are more religious" - Irrelevant to my point which was that Slovaks because of their incomparably greater sins than Czechs in terms of collaboration with Nazis and facilitation of Nazi Holocaust had much stronger motivation to be servile in new Soviet order and become their most enthusiastic collaborators. Is there a gene for being a collaborator?

    The tragedy was that Slovak nationalists received the coveted Slovak state as a present from the most soiled hands in recorded history: those of Adolf Hitler. Czechoslovakia had been formed twenty years earlier by Masaryk, Benes, and their collegues who had secured the help of such democrats as Woodrow Wilson, Georges Clemenceau, and Lloyd George. By contrast, the Slovak state came into existence as an explicitly fascist entity under the protection of Hitler's Third Reich. ("unter den Schutz des Deutschen Reiches") and it behaved accordingly throughout its existence. Characteristic of the new state's modus operandi is an order issued on the first day of Slovakia's existence by Pavol Carnogursky, chief of the Hlinka Guards: "Escaping Czechs and Jews are to be searched and their money and jewelry confiscated." Imitating their master in Berlin, Slovak fascists gradually declared war on Poland, the Soviet Union, and even on Great Britain and the United States; they sent their elite divisions to fight the first two. Without much obvious pressure from Berlin, the country's president, Jozef Tiso, a priest, presided over the build-up of a quasi-Nazi state in Slovakia. Especially repulsive was his handling of Jews. The newspaper Slovak of 16 June 1941 boasted that the Tiso government had shifted the definition of Jew from religious to racial. The paper was pleased that this would allow a sharper separation of Jews from other citizens. When Goebbels came to Slovakia in August 1941, he had only praise for his ally: "After the victory in this great war, its history will be written. And in this history Slovakia will be given a special, honorable place. You Slovaks were the first to join Germany. And you did so at a time when others looked at us with mockery, contempt, and fear." The Slovak government bragged on 3 September 1942 that "Slovakia as the first state in southeastern Europe provided an example also to other states for solving the Jewish question." There were about 90,000 Jews in Slovakia at the beginning of the war. Of these, Tiso exempted about ten thousand from destruction because they were deemed irreplaceable for Slovak economic life. Consequently, "only" 80,000 were subject to deportations. Tiso also insisted in Berlin that Slovak Jewish families should not be ripped apart upon arrival at the camp. Hitler listened and, therefore, 2,482 babies and toddlers went to the gas chamber in their mothers' arms. Eventually, 57,837 Jews from Slovakia (7,063 of whom were less than ten years old) perished in the Holocaust.

    Incredibly, present-day defenders of war-time Slovakia now argue that there was nothing anti-Semitic about the Slovak state of 1939-45. The aforementioned Pavol Carnogursky, who returned to politics for a short time after the Velvet Revolution and who was the father of a family that remains politically active to the present, asserted that the Slovak Constitution under President Tiso "was based on the Christian principle which was uphold in all laws." But this was clearly not the view of the Holy See. Actes et Documentes du Saint Siege Relatifs a la Seconde Guerre Mondiale (Citta del Vaticano: Libreria Editrice Vaticana, 1965 to 1981) is a collection of documents pertaining to the diplomatic activities of the Vatican during World War II. Among other evidence, it contains communications between the Vatican charge d'affaires in slovakia, Msgr. Guiseppe Burzio and Luigi Cardinal Maglione, the chief of Vatican diplomacy. On 5 September 1940, Burzio reported to the Holy See that Tiso had recently invited Slovak citizens - with quotations from the Gospels - "to regenerate themselves in the water and spirit of National Socialism." On 7 September 1941, the shocked Burzio wrote that in a sermon Tiso had identified the national socialist doctrine of the Third Reich with Catholic social teaching. Burzio "sharply" criticized this view, but the Slvoak president remained untouched. On 9 March 1942, Burzio called the Vatican with news of the planned mass deportations of Jews to death-camps. This cruel plan, he said, was being implemented without German pressure. In fact, Berlin demanded 500 Reich marks and food for two weeks for each Slovak Jewish deportee (by the end of he war, Slovakia had paid RD40 million to the coffers of the Third Reich). Burzio said that he had spoken with the Slovak Prime Minister, "and he took the liberty to say (he who displays his catholicism to much) that he found nothing inhumane or undemocratic about it all. To deport those 80,000 persons to Poland, and to hand them over to the Germans, means for many of them a certain death [equivale condanmarne gran parte morte sicura]." Despite Burzio's interventions, the Tiso government carried out its plan to destroy Slovak Jews "in the most brutal manner," and the Vatican informed Tiso via its charge that what was taking place in Slovakia was a disgrace for a Catholic country. On 19 May 1942, Bishop Gojdic from Presov sent a letter to Msgr. Burzio suggesting that Tiso should be reduced to the lay state (ad statum laicalem) because what he was doing to the Jews exsuperavit omnem inhumanitatem, and was in fact reminiscent of Bolshevik barbarism. On 10 April 1943, Burzio tried again to intervene against the deportations, this time with Vojtech Tuka, the Slovak Prime Minister. It was "a conversation with a madman" he reported. Tuka kept repeating that Slovaks were going to rid the country of the Jewish "plague, that band of criminals and gangsters." Burzio asked him whether the deportations were being carried out because of pressure from Germany. The prime minister swore that it was exclusively Slovak "will and initiative." On 26 October 1944, Burzio called Tiso and his government "servile executors" of Hitler's demands. On Christmas Eve 1944, the president stated in a sermon that Germany was "the flag bearer of the most progressive social ideas."
     
  188. @Yevardian

    Russians didn’t save them, read Churchill memoirs about what he thought about this level of idiocy. There is a lesson there somewhere.
     
    First information that's given me any interest in reading Churchill's memoirs. I don't know if I'd go as far as Irving's depiction of him, but he's certainly one of the overhyped political figures of the 20th Century. Mainly he was a narrow-minded and boorish drunkard of which nearly all his original military ideas failed spectacularly.

    I only remember Orwell trashing his tortured writing style in the following quote from 'Politics and the English Language': "The soft underbelly of Italy is the achille's heel of the German octopus", or something along those lines.

    Churchill was, of course, a degenerate drunk moron, overbred end-of-liner and wanna-be snob, quite British in a way.

    But he played his role in WWII, and his memoirs are useful because he described it shortly after 1945 I and there was still not much room to make up stuff. Today we are fully in the Polish method of history by omission in the West, so Churchill is much better. He was also a good writer, his style is genuinely good.

    “The soft underbelly of Italy is the achille’s heel of the German octopus”

    That’s the kind of nonsense with flowery analogies that unfortunately still drives Western policies and education. The real problem are not the zillions of ignorant garbage-eating know-nothings in the Western trailer parks. The real problem are the so-called elite intellectuals who mostly lost the ability to use critical thinking and live in made-up worlds of fake analogies (Hitler anyone?), geographic infantilism (let’s take over the Russian bases in Crimea on the cheap), and increasing psychotic paranoia (‘don’t write bad stuff about Hillary on my Facebook, or you are a spy!!!‘).

  189. @utu

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_repressions_of_Polish_citizens_(1939–1946)
    It is estimated that at least 150,000 Polish citizens died during the Soviet occupation.[3] It is a conservative estimate confirmed by analysis, while the unconfirmed number proposed by Prof. Czesław Łuczak reaches 500,000.[5]

    By the time German-Soviet alliance was broken and the new war erupted, the Soviets had already arrested and imprisoned about 500,000 Polish nationals in the Kresy macroregion including civic officials, military personnel and all other "enemies of the people" such as clergy and the Polish educators: about one in ten of all adult males. There is some controversy as to whether the Soviet Union's policies were harsher than those of Nazi Germany until that time.

    In 1940 and the first half of 1941, the Soviets deported a total of more than 1,200,000 Poles in four waves of mass deportations from the Soviet-occupied Polish territories. The first major operation took place on February 10, 1940, with more than 220,000 people sent primarily to far north and east Russia, including Siberia and Khabarovsk Krai. The second wave of 13 April 1940, consisted of 320,000 people sent primarily to Kazakhstan. The third wave of June–July 1940 totaled more than 240,000. The fourth and final wave occurred in June 1941, deporting 300,000.
     

    The question whether more Poles were killed by Soviets in their occupation zone than Germans in their zone before June 22, 1941 is not an abstract one. There are some estimates that Soviets occupation costed more lives between Sept 17, 1939 and June 22, 1941 than German occupation. When Germans move in June 1941 people were relieved. Mass graves were opened and bodies of those killed by NKVD were exhumed. With the exception of Jews who cooperated with Soviets everybody preferred German occupation.

    The question how many Poles were killed by Soviets when Red Army reentered Polish pre WW II territories in 1944 is a good one. Can it be 100,000? The roundups began right away after the front passed. Then there were repressions and the liquidation of the underground when Poland nominally had its own government however all top officers of security apparatus were of Soviet/Jewish origin and nobody in Poland, except for few deranged creatures like Beckow here who were spawn by the communist system, would consider them being Polish.

    Poland's takeover by communists was not a smooth operation like in Czechoslovakia which was a country with the highest per capita communist party membership in 1940s. In particular Slovak's were very earnest to help read Army and NKVD as they were busy at switching their loyalty from Nazi supporters and hoping that by displaying their servility Soviets will not be too harsh on them for their often enthusiastic cooperations with Nazis. (This can be elaborated.)

    Beckow's attitude with respect to Poland who he seems to hate Poland with his guts probably can be explained by Chesterton observation:


    I judged the Poles by their enemies. And I found it was an almost unfailing truth that their enemies were the enemies of magnanimity and manhood. If a man loved slavery, if he loved usury, if he loved terrorism and all the trampled mire of materialistic politics, I have always found that he added to these affections the passion of a hatred of Poland. She could be judged in the light of that hatred; and the judgment has proved to be right. G. K. Chesterton
    https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/G._K._Chesterton#cite_note-2
     
    Slovak Sovoks do not know what magnanimity and manhood are.

    The question whether more Poles were killed by Soviets in their occupation zone than Germans in their zone before June 22, 1941 is not an abstract one.

    Indeed…it is a defunct stupid one. Nazi’s killed millions of Poles, the Soviets a fraction of that. What type of cretin would even try and debate that? Soviets didn’t target civilians but mainly the polish elite – perhaps the biggest load of self-destructive,war-creating , fascist, dumb idiots on the planet, historically speaking.

    How embarassing it is that Banderatards killed more Poles in a matter of weeks than the Soviets did in near 50 years ( or 200 years of Russian rule)…or the Germans killed millions of Poles in a relatively short space of time…..aided by the near french levels of inept fighting put up the Polish Army

    Anyway deportations are nowhere near as dramatic as you make out you idiot. Huge swathes of Russia’s current elite come from deportations ( Gref, Simonyan to name a couple of many)

    Poland’s takeover by communists was not a smooth operation like in Czechoslovakia

    It was fine. Many normal Poles were eternally grateful to Russia for liberating and rebuilding the country. in 1989 about a third of Poles were for communism, a third weren’t bothered and the remaining third were anti-Russian.

    • Replies: @Beckow

    ...Banderatards killed more Poles in a matter of weeks than the Soviets did in near 50 years ( or 200 years of Russian rule)…or the Germans killed millions of Poles in a relatively short space of time
     
    That is nothing to celebrate, but the numbers are damning. Poles are emotionally obsessed with hating 'Russia', and they project all their misfortunes on Russians. They have been partially exterminated by Germans, enslaved by Crimean Tatar and Ottoman raids, murdered by Galician peasants, but they ignore all of it and focus on hating only the Russians. They also want everybody else to join in this hatred. Pathetic.

    Going further back in time, Poles were the second most numerous group in Napoleon's army that invaded and burnt its way through Russia. 100,000's of Poles died when that invasion failed. My guess is that Polish nationalists also blame Russians for daring to defend themselves.

    I agree that about 1/3 among the Poles are incorrigible haters of Russians and will lie, cheat, yell, make up things, etc... to promote this hatred. Too bad that Poland as a country has to suffer the consequences of this mania.

    , @AP

    Banderatards killed more Poles in a matter of weeks than the Soviets did in near 50 years
     
    Bandera's followers killed up to 100,000 Poles total.

    Several murdered several times that number. They started murdering Poles even before World War II:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Operation_of_the_NKVD

    According to archives of the NKVD, 111,091 Poles and people accused of ties with Poland, were sentenced to death, and 28,744 were sentenced to labor camps; 139,835 victims in total.[16] This number constitutes 10% of the total number of people officially convicted during the Yezhovshchina period, based on confirming NKVD documents.[17]

    The Operation was only a peak in the persecution of the Poles, which spanned more than a decade. As the Soviet statistics indicate, the number of ethnic Poles in the USSR dropped by 165,000 in that period. "It is estimated that Polish losses in the Ukrainian SSR were about 30%, while in the Belorussian SSR... the Polish minority was almost completely annihilated."[15] Timothy Snyder gives a conservative estimate of 85,000 confirmed Poles executed simultaneously across the country.[6]

    Almost all victims of the NKVD shootings were men, wrote Michał Jasiński, most with families. Their wives and children were dealt with by the NKVD Order № 00486. The women were generally sentenced to deportation to Kazakhstan for an average of 5 to 10 years. Orphaned children without relatives willing to take them were put in orphanages to be brought up as Soviet, with no knowledge of their origins. All possessions of the accused were confiscated. The parents of the executed men – as well as their in-laws – were left with nothing to live on, which usually sealed their fate as well. Statistical extrapolation, wrote Jasiński, increases the number of Polish victims in 1937–1938 to around 200–250,000 depending on size of their families.[18]

    In Leningrad, the NKVD reviewed local telephone books and arrested almost 7,000 citizens with Polish-sounding name with the vast majority of such nominal "suspects" were executed within 10 days of arrest.

    :::::::::::::::

    As for post-1939 history:

    500,000 Polish nationals imprisoned before June 1941 (90% male)[1]

    22,000 Polish military personnel and officials killed in the Katyn massacre alone [2]

    1,700,000 Poles deported to Siberia in 1939-1941[3]

    100,000 women raped during the Soviet counter-offensive (est.)[4]

    150,000–500,000 citizens of the Republic died

    :::::::::::::::

    Beckow, the Slovak Sovok, insists Poles should be grateful to Soviets. Typical Sovok morality.
    , @utu
    Polish human losses in German and Soviet occupation zones between 17 Sept, 1939 and June 22, 1941 were comparable.
    , @Anonymoose
    Do you have any info on how many descendants of deported Poles live in Russia today?
  190. @AP
    None of those were Russian-inhabited lands, unlike Danzig which was inhabited by Germans. There were many more ethnic Poles than ethnic Russians living in those lands.

    Polish rule meant being saved from Stalin-era genocide.

    None of those were Russian-inhabited lands, unlike Danzig which was inhabited by Germans. There were many more ethnic Poles than ethnic Russians living in those lands.

    Polish rule meant being saved from Stalin-era genocide.

    A straightforward lie………..but what else could be expected from the shameless author or a series of stupid posts……..particularly the BIZARRE one showing a shocking lack of ANY knowledge of Russian language

  191. @AP
    Do not label your confusion (fake?) as alleged "incoherence."

    murdered 100,000s of Poles and imposed a repressive regime upon them for decades.

    When? How? Are you saying that 100,000s of Poles were killed in Poland by Russians after WWII?
     

    100,000s of Poles were killed by Soviets after 1939 when they invaded Poland. What number were murdered after 1943 I do not feel like researching.

    There were 3 million members of the Polish Communist Party.
     
    No kidding. How many Nazis would there be in France, England, etc. if Germany won? How many Jewish kapos were there, for that matter?

    There were 3 million members of the Polish Communist Party.

    No kidding. How many Nazis would there be in France, England, etc. if Germany won? How many Jewish kapos were there, for that matter?

    LOL……..the explosion of membership and success of the Labour Party in England directly coincides with the Bolshevik revolution you idiot. Before 1917 Britain was traditionally Conservatives and liberals. Once upper-class Communist intellectuals and Marxist workers/trade Unionists started running the party then millions started voting for it you pr**K.

    It was a known fact that there were millions of Communists in Germany pre 1933, not majority but millions. Polish had big support, Italy and Greece were other countries that could easily have had an even more pro-Communist/USSR path without American /British pressure.

    100,000s of Poles were killed by Soviets after 1939 when they invaded Poland. What number were murdered after 1943 I do not feel like researching.

    LOL…a filthy lie – but an irrelevant lie also. Many scumbag polish elites were killed. Anyway the massacres of 100000s (civilians) by Banderatards in a few days, and millions of Poles by the Nazis plus these deserved killings of Poles by the Soviets – surely it’s no coincidence that all these groups were incited to do it against a country like Poland that has literally done nothing positive for Europe…..ever

    No suprise either that the only building in Poland that anybody around the world has ever even heard about are the Stalinist ones

  192. @AP
    None of those were Russian-inhabited lands, unlike Danzig which was inhabited by Germans. There were many more ethnic Poles than ethnic Russians living in those lands.

    Polish rule meant being saved from Stalin-era genocide.

    Polish rule meant being saved from Stalin-era genocide.

    That G word is often hyperbolic, along the lines of 1990s former Yugo, as well as to what happened to the Crimean Tatars and Ukrainians – said without meaning to belittle the level of mistreatment which was evident.

    To a noticeable extent, Polish rule between the two world wars was something not favored among the larger non-Polish ethnic groups in Poland at the time.

    As has been previously noted, during the Russian Civil War, the Galician Ukrainian Army en masse preferred the Russian Whites over the Pilsudski led Poles. The Soviet takeover of Ukrainian inhabited former Habsburg/former Polish territory was bungled. By and large, these Ukrainians weren’t gung ho living under Polish occupation. The heavy handed Soviet treatment of them greatly influenced their anti-Soviet mindset, which granted had existed beforehand.

    • Replies: @AP

    To a noticeable extent, Polish rule between the two world wars was something not favored among the larger non-Polish ethnic groups in Poland at the time.
     
    Do you seriously think that western Ukrainians and Belarussians would have been better off had they lived through the 1930s collectivization and purges?
  193. @Hippopotamusdrome
    I did not know that until now. Russia unfairly lost land to Poland after WWI, and they were trying to reclaim it. Sort of like the Russian Danzig.

    You didn’t know because Poles have worked overtime to hide the fact that the areas taken over in 1939 by the Soviets are all in Belarus and Ukraine. They are not Poland, and they are not Russia. Poles like to leave out stuff that undermines their narratives, like Polish participation in Munich, Friendship Treaty with Hitler, refusal to even talk to Soviets, etc…

  194. @reiner Tor
    The commenter for-the-record seems to have disappeared. I hope he’s okay.

    The commenter for-the-record seems to have disappeared. I hope he’s okay.

    I’m touched that you noticed my absence, seriously. I’m alive and well, just have had nothing useful to say for a while. And watering my banana trees (they are herbs actually, I assume everyone here is aware of that) has taken more time than usual given the lack of rain.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Thanks for the update! Have a nice time doing whatever you’re doing.
  195. @Hippopotamusdrome


    even had their specific chemical composition analyzed

    https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.381.8552

     

    The analysis showed that the figures were painted with "Chinese Purple". The paper then states that the manufacture of Chinese Purple is "highly complex" and that, to them, it is a "mystery" that such an advanced process is used at that early era.

    From the paper:


    The process to synthesize [Chinese Purple] is now known to be highly complex ... and how the early Chinese chemists managed to synthesize barium copper silicates in an almost pure form, even preceding the invention of paper and the compass, is a mystery.

     

    They offer the explanation that "Taoist alchemists" invented the process.

    They also note that Chinese Purple ceases to be used during later dynasties as its manufacture is, to them, too "high-tech" for even the talented China post Han dynasty. They explain this with a Chinese dark ages caused by the abandonment of Taoism.


    The influence of Taoism started to diminish during the Han dynasty. ... We believe that this is why few (if any) Chinese Purple or Chinese Blue pigments were used in the later dynasties. Without the support of the government and rich individuals, such a complicated “high-tech” operation was not feasible.

     

    The researches state that manufacture of Chinese Purple seems too sophisticated for the era (words enigma and mystery are used) and that it is even too sophisticated for later eras like post Han when China was supposed to literally be inventing everything according to wikipedia. But they are certain that the statues are from 200BC so they need to come up with an explanation, which is the art of Taoist alchemy that later comes to be lost.

    Taoists were known for creating dyes and various other chemicals, but did not usually document their methods. But the creation of porcelain and gunpowder from the era demonstrates that their accomplishments and legacy.

    And China had other burial armies during the time period:

    https://www.travelchinaguide.com/attraction/shaanxi/xian/hanyang.htm

    https://www.livescience.com/64071-mini-terracotta-army-discovered-china.html

    You’re allowed to be obsessed with your fantasy world, as it clearly compensates for something in your sad life.

  196. @Gerard2

    The question whether more Poles were killed by Soviets in their occupation zone than Germans in their zone before June 22, 1941 is not an abstract one.
     
    Indeed...it is a defunct stupid one. Nazi's killed millions of Poles, the Soviets a fraction of that. What type of cretin would even try and debate that? Soviets didn't target civilians but mainly the polish elite - perhaps the biggest load of self-destructive,war-creating , fascist, dumb idiots on the planet, historically speaking.

    How embarassing it is that Banderatards killed more Poles in a matter of weeks than the Soviets did in near 50 years ( or 200 years of Russian rule)...or the Germans killed millions of Poles in a relatively short space of time.....aided by the near french levels of inept fighting put up the Polish Army

    Anyway deportations are nowhere near as dramatic as you make out you idiot. Huge swathes of Russia's current elite come from deportations ( Gref, Simonyan to name a couple of many)

    Poland’s takeover by communists was not a smooth operation like in Czechoslovakia
     
    It was fine. Many normal Poles were eternally grateful to Russia for liberating and rebuilding the country. in 1989 about a third of Poles were for communism, a third weren't bothered and the remaining third were anti-Russian.

    …Banderatards killed more Poles in a matter of weeks than the Soviets did in near 50 years ( or 200 years of Russian rule)…or the Germans killed millions of Poles in a relatively short space of time

    That is nothing to celebrate, but the numbers are damning. Poles are emotionally obsessed with hating ‘Russia’, and they project all their misfortunes on Russians. They have been partially exterminated by Germans, enslaved by Crimean Tatar and Ottoman raids, murdered by Galician peasants, but they ignore all of it and focus on hating only the Russians. They also want everybody else to join in this hatred. Pathetic.

    Going further back in time, Poles were the second most numerous group in Napoleon’s army that invaded and burnt its way through Russia. 100,000’s of Poles died when that invasion failed. My guess is that Polish nationalists also blame Russians for daring to defend themselves.

    I agree that about 1/3 among the Poles are incorrigible haters of Russians and will lie, cheat, yell, make up things, etc… to promote this hatred. Too bad that Poland as a country has to suffer the consequences of this mania.

  197. @AP

    Arkansas has much better cultural products than the Ukraine.
     
    LOL.

    Gogol and horilka already beat them all.

    Johnny Cash > Gogol

    I will fight you.

    And the idea that some Slavic trash like horilka could be better than proper American sugar mash moonshine – LOL. Get lost, Ukie. The only Slavic booze I’d consider taking over American homemade booze is rakija from the Balkans.

    • Agree: Spisarevski
  198. @Yevardian

    I would guesstimate that Trump has a ~45% chance of getting reelected.
     
    I think this is far too generous. No way in hell is dRUmpF ever winning over the Rust Belt again.

    I’m going to go ahead and assume that you don’t live in the Rust Belt.

  199. @Mikhail

    Polish rule meant being saved from Stalin-era genocide.
     
    That G word is often hyperbolic, along the lines of 1990s former Yugo, as well as to what happened to the Crimean Tatars and Ukrainians - said without meaning to belittle the level of mistreatment which was evident.

    To a noticeable extent, Polish rule between the two world wars was something not favored among the larger non-Polish ethnic groups in Poland at the time.

    As has been previously noted, during the Russian Civil War, the Galician Ukrainian Army en masse preferred the Russian Whites over the Pilsudski led Poles. The Soviet takeover of Ukrainian inhabited former Habsburg/former Polish territory was bungled. By and large, these Ukrainians weren't gung ho living under Polish occupation. The heavy handed Soviet treatment of them greatly influenced their anti-Soviet mindset, which granted had existed beforehand.

    To a noticeable extent, Polish rule between the two world wars was something not favored among the larger non-Polish ethnic groups in Poland at the time.

    Do you seriously think that western Ukrainians and Belarussians would have been better off had they lived through the 1930s collectivization and purges?

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    Do you seriously believe that the Ukrainians and Belarusians of that period were happy living under Polish rule and that the Polish government (especially after Pilsudski's death) was showing signs of becoming even more intolerant towards their non-Polish citizens?

    As previously expressed, I don't dispute the brutal Soviet aspect, which in turn enhanced the anti-Soviet stance, among the Ukrainians based on territory formerly ruled by the Habsburgs and Poles.

  200. AP says:
    @Beckow

    ...Can it be 100,000?
     
    No, it can't be and it wasn't. Soviets simply didn't kill 100,000 Poles in Poland after WWII. If you want to compare WWII casualties you are doing it to create a false image - Russians also lost millions in WWII. The way AP tries to link it - and then awkwardly pretends that's not what he was saying - is an attempt to conflate things and create a false history.

    The 3 million Polish communists were real - this was all the way till 1989. Own up to it, and stop pretending that there was a Russian army in Warsaw on every corner shooting people who wanted to pray - that's complete nonsense. The tens of thousands of top Polish commie officials couldn't be all Jews or 'Soviets' - they were Poles. Polish communism had a substantial domestic base.


    probably can be explained by Chesterton observation
     
    Probably not. People - even famous people - make all kinds of generic statements that are based on basically nothing. And 'wiki' for history? why don't you just read us State Dept press releases as divine truth? I genuinely have no idea what the term 'sovok' means - you might as well call me a Hun or pirate, it has no meaning.

    You are not interested in what really happened. I am. When I see people lying because they are emotional and angry, I try to correct them. Poles do that here all the time - they are beside themselves with their hatred of anything Russian (and now Slovak or Czech?), and anyone who doesn't join in is equally hated. It is a form of a mental disease, and it never ends well. Get a hold of reality, stop making up things, own up to your own misdeeds, and then we can move on. Until then it seems Poland is just itching to replay its bloody history. Why?

    You are even wrong about minor stuff like:


    Czechoslovakia which was a country with the highest per capita communist party membership in 1940s. In particular Slovak’s were very earnest to help read Army
     
    Actually, no. You have it upside down. Czechs voted for commies 40% in 1946, Slovaks 30%. Slovaks are more religious and they were the 'problem' people initially for communists - see the 'bourgeois nationalist' trials in Slovakia in the early 50's. The communist heartland was Prague and its intellectuals (Milan Kundera and co.), large Czech industrial cities like Plzen, Ostrava, and the newly settled Sudetenland. It is true that communists won free elections in Czechoslovakia, what everyone is trying to forget that there was a huge pro-communist wave all over Europe (Italy, France,...) after WWII. It was real and it led to dramatic changes like welfare, higher living standards, medical care, etc... Why do you all pretend that this didn't happen? Even Poles had strong commie sympathies at that time.

    The way AP tries to link it – and then awkwardly pretends that’s not what he was saying

    You are repeating your lie.

    I straightforwardly mentioned 100,000s of killed Poles in reference to the invasion of Poland by Soviets in 1939. You kept bringing up post-World War II, trying to be sneaky.

    The 3 million Polish communists were real – this was all the way till 1989

    Any country brutally occupied by Communists would have millions of Communist Party members eventually. It means nothing, except that Poland was occupied and had no hope of freeing itself.

  201. AP says:
    @Gerard2

    The question whether more Poles were killed by Soviets in their occupation zone than Germans in their zone before June 22, 1941 is not an abstract one.
     
    Indeed...it is a defunct stupid one. Nazi's killed millions of Poles, the Soviets a fraction of that. What type of cretin would even try and debate that? Soviets didn't target civilians but mainly the polish elite - perhaps the biggest load of self-destructive,war-creating , fascist, dumb idiots on the planet, historically speaking.

    How embarassing it is that Banderatards killed more Poles in a matter of weeks than the Soviets did in near 50 years ( or 200 years of Russian rule)...or the Germans killed millions of Poles in a relatively short space of time.....aided by the near french levels of inept fighting put up the Polish Army

    Anyway deportations are nowhere near as dramatic as you make out you idiot. Huge swathes of Russia's current elite come from deportations ( Gref, Simonyan to name a couple of many)

    Poland’s takeover by communists was not a smooth operation like in Czechoslovakia
     
    It was fine. Many normal Poles were eternally grateful to Russia for liberating and rebuilding the country. in 1989 about a third of Poles were for communism, a third weren't bothered and the remaining third were anti-Russian.

    Banderatards killed more Poles in a matter of weeks than the Soviets did in near 50 years

    Bandera’s followers killed up to 100,000 Poles total.

    Several murdered several times that number. They started murdering Poles even before World War II:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Operation_of_the_NKVD

    According to archives of the NKVD, 111,091 Poles and people accused of ties with Poland, were sentenced to death, and 28,744 were sentenced to labor camps; 139,835 victims in total.[16] This number constitutes 10% of the total number of people officially convicted during the Yezhovshchina period, based on confirming NKVD documents.[17]

    The Operation was only a peak in the persecution of the Poles, which spanned more than a decade. As the Soviet statistics indicate, the number of ethnic Poles in the USSR dropped by 165,000 in that period. “It is estimated that Polish losses in the Ukrainian SSR were about 30%, while in the Belorussian SSR… the Polish minority was almost completely annihilated.”[15] Timothy Snyder gives a conservative estimate of 85,000 confirmed Poles executed simultaneously across the country.[6]

    Almost all victims of the NKVD shootings were men, wrote Michał Jasiński, most with families. Their wives and children were dealt with by the NKVD Order № 00486. The women were generally sentenced to deportation to Kazakhstan for an average of 5 to 10 years. Orphaned children without relatives willing to take them were put in orphanages to be brought up as Soviet, with no knowledge of their origins. All possessions of the accused were confiscated. The parents of the executed men – as well as their in-laws – were left with nothing to live on, which usually sealed their fate as well. Statistical extrapolation, wrote Jasiński, increases the number of Polish victims in 1937–1938 to around 200–250,000 depending on size of their families.[18]

    In Leningrad, the NKVD reviewed local telephone books and arrested almost 7,000 citizens with Polish-sounding name with the vast majority of such nominal “suspects” were executed within 10 days of arrest.

    :::::::::::::::

    As for post-1939 history:

    500,000 Polish nationals imprisoned before June 1941 (90% male)[1]

    22,000 Polish military personnel and officials killed in the Katyn massacre alone [2]

    1,700,000 Poles deported to Siberia in 1939-1941[3]

    100,000 women raped during the Soviet counter-offensive (est.)[4]

    150,000–500,000 citizens of the Republic died

    :::::::::::::::

    Beckow, the Slovak Sovok, insists Poles should be grateful to Soviets. Typical Sovok morality.

  202. @AP

    To a noticeable extent, Polish rule between the two world wars was something not favored among the larger non-Polish ethnic groups in Poland at the time.
     
    Do you seriously think that western Ukrainians and Belarussians would have been better off had they lived through the 1930s collectivization and purges?

    Do you seriously believe that the Ukrainians and Belarusians of that period were happy living under Polish rule and that the Polish government (especially after Pilsudski’s death) was showing signs of becoming even more intolerant towards their non-Polish citizens?

    As previously expressed, I don’t dispute the brutal Soviet aspect, which in turn enhanced the anti-Soviet stance, among the Ukrainians based on territory formerly ruled by the Habsburgs and Poles.

    • Replies: @utu

    Do you seriously believe that the Ukrainians and Belarusians of that period were happy living under Polish rule and that the Polish government (especially after Pilsudski’s death) was showing signs of becoming even more intolerant towards their non-Polish citizens?
     
    Absolutely. They were much happier in Poland. The alternative for them was this:

    The 1930s marked the peak of Soviet repressions in Belarus. According to incomplete calculations, about 600,000 people fell victim to Soviet repressions in Belarus between 1917 and 1953.[15][16] Other estimates put the number at higher than 1.4 million persons.,[17] of which 250,000 were sentenced by judicial or executed by extrajudicial bodies (dvoikas, troikas, special commissions of the OGPU, NKVD, MGB). Excluding those sentenced in the 1920s–1930s, over 250,000 Belarusians were deported as kulaks or kulak family members in regions outside the Belarusian Soviet Republic. The scale of Soviet terror in Belarus was higher than in Russia or Ukraine which resulted in a much stronger extent of Russification in the republic.
     
    Some in Poland were fooled by Soviet propaganda about the workers' paradise but most of them who were farmers with land were happy.

    So I would say they were much happier in Poland except that in Poland they were relatively free to voice their grievances and unhappiness while in the USSR the unhappy ones were dekulakized, deported and killed. The unhappy gene among Belarusians was eliminated in the USSR and the only carriers of this unhappy gene survived in Poland. The same goes for Ukrainians. If it was not for free Poland Ukrainians and Belarusians would have been crushed beyond a possibility of recovering their national aspirations.

    , @AP

    Do you seriously believe that the Ukrainians and Belarusians of that period were happy living under Polish rule and that the Polish government (especially after Pilsudski’s death) was showing signs of becoming even more intolerant towards their non-Polish citizens?
     
    The nationalists were unhappy, but they were not mass-murdered, and that is a huge difference. The simpler folk in Belarus who hadn't learned nationalism probably were not unhappy.

    You are a descendant of Russian Whites, so it is odd that you would have problems with the Polish government in western Ukraine. The Russophiles in Galicia were happy with Polish rule. The Polish government opened up Russian cultural centers and so on:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stauropegion_Institute

    My grandmother's cousin was a Russophile leader in Lviv. He and his wife poisoned themselves rather than live under Sovok rule after 1939.
  203. @anon

    Probably 80% were ethnic Ukrainian. There were some cases of Poles marrying Ukrainians , bla, bla, bla etc.
     
    Another patriotic debate, exactly what we needed. This is our land! No, this is our land! No, this is our land!

    In 2019, who cares?

    By now all Poles, Lithuanians, Belarussian and Ukrainians who can leave to London to clean toilets and speak broken English. All this patriotic wars, massacres and pogroms were for ... nothing at all.

    “By now all Poles, Lithuanians, Belarussian and Ukrainians who can leave to London to clean toilets and speak broken English. All this patriotic wars, massacres and pogroms were for … nothing at all.”

    Not for nothing but for everything – cleaning toilets in Berlin and London is the highest expression of cultural and national sovereignty for Poles and Ukies. They’ve always known what they wanted, they’ve been aiming high and, alas, they did achieve their national aspirations. An inspiration to us all!

  204. utu says:
    @Mikhail
    Do you seriously believe that the Ukrainians and Belarusians of that period were happy living under Polish rule and that the Polish government (especially after Pilsudski's death) was showing signs of becoming even more intolerant towards their non-Polish citizens?

    As previously expressed, I don't dispute the brutal Soviet aspect, which in turn enhanced the anti-Soviet stance, among the Ukrainians based on territory formerly ruled by the Habsburgs and Poles.

    Do you seriously believe that the Ukrainians and Belarusians of that period were happy living under Polish rule and that the Polish government (especially after Pilsudski’s death) was showing signs of becoming even more intolerant towards their non-Polish citizens?

    Absolutely. They were much happier in Poland. The alternative for them was this:

    The 1930s marked the peak of Soviet repressions in Belarus. According to incomplete calculations, about 600,000 people fell victim to Soviet repressions in Belarus between 1917 and 1953.[15][16] Other estimates put the number at higher than 1.4 million persons.,[17] of which 250,000 were sentenced by judicial or executed by extrajudicial bodies (dvoikas, troikas, special commissions of the OGPU, NKVD, MGB). Excluding those sentenced in the 1920s–1930s, over 250,000 Belarusians were deported as kulaks or kulak family members in regions outside the Belarusian Soviet Republic. The scale of Soviet terror in Belarus was higher than in Russia or Ukraine which resulted in a much stronger extent of Russification in the republic.

    Some in Poland were fooled by Soviet propaganda about the workers’ paradise but most of them who were farmers with land were happy.

    So I would say they were much happier in Poland except that in Poland they were relatively free to voice their grievances and unhappiness while in the USSR the unhappy ones were dekulakized, deported and killed. The unhappy gene among Belarusians was eliminated in the USSR and the only carriers of this unhappy gene survived in Poland. The same goes for Ukrainians. If it was not for free Poland Ukrainians and Belarusians would have been crushed beyond a possibility of recovering their national aspirations.

    • Replies: @Mikhail

    If it was not for free Poland Ukrainians and Belarusians would have been crushed beyond a possibility of recovering their national aspirations.
     
    The act of the matter is that free Poland wasn't so free, with the USSR establishing a certain identity for Ukrainians and Belarusians.

    This facet explains why the Belarusians and Ukrainians under Polish rule didn't by and large fight against the USSR when it entered the former's territory in 1939.

    I don't disagree that the Soviet heavy handedness thereafter had changed the mindset of many of these Belarusians and Ukrainians - especially among the latter.

    Notwithstanding, more Ukrainians fought on the side of the Red Army than the OUN/UPA.

    BTW, among anti-Communist Ukrainians, there was a noticeable number of them fighting on the side of Vlasov, whose movement wasn't particularly liked by the OUN/UPA. The most famous of these pro-Russian Ukrainians;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Bunyachenko
  205. @Gerard2

    The question whether more Poles were killed by Soviets in their occupation zone than Germans in their zone before June 22, 1941 is not an abstract one.
     
    Indeed...it is a defunct stupid one. Nazi's killed millions of Poles, the Soviets a fraction of that. What type of cretin would even try and debate that? Soviets didn't target civilians but mainly the polish elite - perhaps the biggest load of self-destructive,war-creating , fascist, dumb idiots on the planet, historically speaking.

    How embarassing it is that Banderatards killed more Poles in a matter of weeks than the Soviets did in near 50 years ( or 200 years of Russian rule)...or the Germans killed millions of Poles in a relatively short space of time.....aided by the near french levels of inept fighting put up the Polish Army

    Anyway deportations are nowhere near as dramatic as you make out you idiot. Huge swathes of Russia's current elite come from deportations ( Gref, Simonyan to name a couple of many)

    Poland’s takeover by communists was not a smooth operation like in Czechoslovakia
     
    It was fine. Many normal Poles were eternally grateful to Russia for liberating and rebuilding the country. in 1989 about a third of Poles were for communism, a third weren't bothered and the remaining third were anti-Russian.

    Polish human losses in German and Soviet occupation zones between 17 Sept, 1939 and June 22, 1941 were comparable.

  206. @Gerard2

    The question whether more Poles were killed by Soviets in their occupation zone than Germans in their zone before June 22, 1941 is not an abstract one.
     
    Indeed...it is a defunct stupid one. Nazi's killed millions of Poles, the Soviets a fraction of that. What type of cretin would even try and debate that? Soviets didn't target civilians but mainly the polish elite - perhaps the biggest load of self-destructive,war-creating , fascist, dumb idiots on the planet, historically speaking.

    How embarassing it is that Banderatards killed more Poles in a matter of weeks than the Soviets did in near 50 years ( or 200 years of Russian rule)...or the Germans killed millions of Poles in a relatively short space of time.....aided by the near french levels of inept fighting put up the Polish Army

    Anyway deportations are nowhere near as dramatic as you make out you idiot. Huge swathes of Russia's current elite come from deportations ( Gref, Simonyan to name a couple of many)

    Poland’s takeover by communists was not a smooth operation like in Czechoslovakia
     
    It was fine. Many normal Poles were eternally grateful to Russia for liberating and rebuilding the country. in 1989 about a third of Poles were for communism, a third weren't bothered and the remaining third were anti-Russian.

    Do you have any info on how many descendants of deported Poles live in Russia today?

    • Replies: @AP
    He is an idiot who has no info.

    My wife is a partial descendant of those Poles (she is half Polish). Many of them were officially Ukrainian or Belarussian by nationality to hide their Polish ethnicity. Some high percentage of those deported died along the way under brutal conditions so there are not as many as one would assume given the large number who were deported. There is a Polish church in Moscow:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathedral_of_the_Immaculate_Conception_(Moscow)

    I celebrated Christmas there one year.
  207. utu says:
    @Beckow

    ...Can it be 100,000?
     
    No, it can't be and it wasn't. Soviets simply didn't kill 100,000 Poles in Poland after WWII. If you want to compare WWII casualties you are doing it to create a false image - Russians also lost millions in WWII. The way AP tries to link it - and then awkwardly pretends that's not what he was saying - is an attempt to conflate things and create a false history.

    The 3 million Polish communists were real - this was all the way till 1989. Own up to it, and stop pretending that there was a Russian army in Warsaw on every corner shooting people who wanted to pray - that's complete nonsense. The tens of thousands of top Polish commie officials couldn't be all Jews or 'Soviets' - they were Poles. Polish communism had a substantial domestic base.


    probably can be explained by Chesterton observation
     
    Probably not. People - even famous people - make all kinds of generic statements that are based on basically nothing. And 'wiki' for history? why don't you just read us State Dept press releases as divine truth? I genuinely have no idea what the term 'sovok' means - you might as well call me a Hun or pirate, it has no meaning.

    You are not interested in what really happened. I am. When I see people lying because they are emotional and angry, I try to correct them. Poles do that here all the time - they are beside themselves with their hatred of anything Russian (and now Slovak or Czech?), and anyone who doesn't join in is equally hated. It is a form of a mental disease, and it never ends well. Get a hold of reality, stop making up things, own up to your own misdeeds, and then we can move on. Until then it seems Poland is just itching to replay its bloody history. Why?

    You are even wrong about minor stuff like:


    Czechoslovakia which was a country with the highest per capita communist party membership in 1940s. In particular Slovak’s were very earnest to help read Army
     
    Actually, no. You have it upside down. Czechs voted for commies 40% in 1946, Slovaks 30%. Slovaks are more religious and they were the 'problem' people initially for communists - see the 'bourgeois nationalist' trials in Slovakia in the early 50's. The communist heartland was Prague and its intellectuals (Milan Kundera and co.), large Czech industrial cities like Plzen, Ostrava, and the newly settled Sudetenland. It is true that communists won free elections in Czechoslovakia, what everyone is trying to forget that there was a huge pro-communist wave all over Europe (Italy, France,...) after WWII. It was real and it led to dramatic changes like welfare, higher living standards, medical care, etc... Why do you all pretend that this didn't happen? Even Poles had strong commie sympathies at that time.

    (1) 100,000? – Maybe not. But one can easily argue 50,000 of Poles killed after 1944 when Red Army reentered pre WWII Polish territory. This includes the ones who never returned from mass deportations of 1944, 1945, 1946. In 1945 form Silesia alone up 70,000 people were deported to USSR. They were Germans, Silesians and Poles. Many miners who were sent to mines in USSR. It is believed that only 20% returned.

    (2) “Russians also lost millions in WWII.” – So what. BTW, the numbers could have been lower if (a) Red Army had a better tactic and (2) if Stalin did not unleash senseless partisan warfare in Belarus and Ukraine to provoke German retaliations to arrest the process of local populations cozying up with German occupiers.

    (3) “Poles do that here all the time – they are beside themselves with their hatred of anything Russian (and now Slovak or Czech?).” – Take some medication. You are lashing out blindly.

    (4) “It is a form of a mental disease” – Projection.

    (5) “You are not interested in what really happened. “ – Projection. I do know what really happened as I have research the issues for many years. My interest waned since. The only reason I entered this discussion was as a corrective measure to your emotional outbursts.

    (6) “The 3 million Polish communists were real” – I had to research it. This number is for 1980. During Gierek’s regime time of prosperity there was a drive to recruit more party members mostly among low intelligentsia. They could not get workers. Mostly opportunists. People were getting passport to travel West where they would earn some extra money to buy a car or apartment. Being a party member getting passport was easier. These people were no communists. In 1970 the membership was circa 2 millions. And we know how it ended. With Solidarity in 1980 when 800,000 people quit party membership.

    Since assuming power in 1948, the KSČ had one of the largest per capita membership rolls in the communist world (11 percent of the population).

    Despite this attrition, a membership of “almost 1,200,000” was claimed in the spring of 1971 for a country with an estimated population of approximately 14.5 million—still one of the highest Communist party membership rates in the world on a percentage basis at that time.

    Party leaders at the Seventeenth Party Congress in 1986 urged the recruitment of more workers, young people, and women. In 1981 it had 1,538,179 members (10% of the population)

    (7) “It was real and it led to dramatic changes like welfare, higher living standards, medical care, etc… Why do you all pretend that this didn’t happen? ” – I know. We heard of your grandma’s new dentures gifted to her by commies. While on the other side of the Iron Curtain people were toothless.

    (8) “Even Poles had strong commie sympathies at that time.” – Some did. Majority did not.

    (9) “Czechs voted for commies 40% in 1946, Slovaks 30%. Slovaks are more religious” – Irrelevant to my point which was that Slovaks because of their incomparably greater sins than Czechs in terms of collaboration with Nazis and facilitation of Nazi Holocaust had much stronger motivation to be servile in new Soviet order and become their most enthusiastic collaborators. Is there a gene for being a collaborator?

    The tragedy was that Slovak nationalists received the coveted Slovak state as a present from the most soiled hands in recorded history: those of Adolf Hitler. Czechoslovakia had been formed twenty years earlier by Masaryk, Benes, and their collegues who had secured the help of such democrats as Woodrow Wilson, Georges Clemenceau, and Lloyd George. By contrast, the Slovak state came into existence as an explicitly fascist entity under the protection of Hitler’s Third Reich. (“unter den Schutz des Deutschen Reiches”) and it behaved accordingly throughout its existence. Characteristic of the new state’s modus operandi is an order issued on the first day of Slovakia’s existence by Pavol Carnogursky, chief of the Hlinka Guards: “Escaping Czechs and Jews are to be searched and their money and jewelry confiscated.” Imitating their master in Berlin, Slovak fascists gradually declared war on Poland, the Soviet Union, and even on Great Britain and the United States; they sent their elite divisions to fight the first two. Without much obvious pressure from Berlin, the country’s president, Jozef Tiso, a priest, presided over the build-up of a quasi-Nazi state in Slovakia. Especially repulsive was his handling of Jews. The newspaper Slovak of 16 June 1941 boasted that the Tiso government had shifted the definition of Jew from religious to racial. The paper was pleased that this would allow a sharper separation of Jews from other citizens. When Goebbels came to Slovakia in August 1941, he had only praise for his ally: “After the victory in this great war, its history will be written. And in this history Slovakia will be given a special, honorable place. You Slovaks were the first to join Germany. And you did so at a time when others looked at us with mockery, contempt, and fear.” The Slovak government bragged on 3 September 1942 that “Slovakia as the first state in southeastern Europe provided an example also to other states for solving the Jewish question.” There were about 90,000 Jews in Slovakia at the beginning of the war. Of these, Tiso exempted about ten thousand from destruction because they were deemed irreplaceable for Slovak economic life. Consequently, “only” 80,000 were subject to deportations. Tiso also insisted in Berlin that Slovak Jewish families should not be ripped apart upon arrival at the camp. Hitler listened and, therefore, 2,482 babies and toddlers went to the gas chamber in their mothers’ arms. Eventually, 57,837 Jews from Slovakia (7,063 of whom were less than ten years old) perished in the Holocaust.

    Incredibly, present-day defenders of war-time Slovakia now argue that there was nothing anti-Semitic about the Slovak state of 1939-45. The aforementioned Pavol Carnogursky, who returned to politics for a short time after the Velvet Revolution and who was the father of a family that remains politically active to the present, asserted that the Slovak Constitution under President Tiso “was based on the Christian principle which was uphold in all laws.” But this was clearly not the view of the Holy See. Actes et Documentes du Saint Siege Relatifs a la Seconde Guerre Mondiale (Citta del Vaticano: Libreria Editrice Vaticana, 1965 to 1981) is a collection of documents pertaining to the diplomatic activities of the Vatican during World War II. Among other evidence, it contains communications between the Vatican charge d’affaires in slovakia, Msgr. Guiseppe Burzio and Luigi Cardinal Maglione, the chief of Vatican diplomacy. On 5 September 1940, Burzio reported to the Holy See that Tiso had recently invited Slovak citizens – with quotations from the Gospels – “to regenerate themselves in the water and spirit of National Socialism.” On 7 September 1941, the shocked Burzio wrote that in a sermon Tiso had identified the national socialist doctrine of the Third Reich with Catholic social teaching. Burzio “sharply” criticized this view, but the Slvoak president remained untouched. On 9 March 1942, Burzio called the Vatican with news of the planned mass deportations of Jews to death-camps. This cruel plan, he said, was being implemented without German pressure. In fact, Berlin demanded 500 Reich marks and food for two weeks for each Slovak Jewish deportee (by the end of he war, Slovakia had paid RD40 million to the coffers of the Third Reich). Burzio said that he had spoken with the Slovak Prime Minister, “and he took the liberty to say (he who displays his catholicism to much) that he found nothing inhumane or undemocratic about it all. To deport those 80,000 persons to Poland, and to hand them over to the Germans, means for many of them a certain death [equivale condanmarne gran parte morte sicura].” Despite Burzio’s interventions, the Tiso government carried out its plan to destroy Slovak Jews “in the most brutal manner,” and the Vatican informed Tiso via its charge that what was taking place in Slovakia was a disgrace for a Catholic country. On 19 May 1942, Bishop Gojdic from Presov sent a letter to Msgr. Burzio suggesting that Tiso should be reduced to the lay state (ad statum laicalem) because what he was doing to the Jews exsuperavit omnem inhumanitatem, and was in fact reminiscent of Bolshevik barbarism. On 10 April 1943, Burzio tried again to intervene against the deportations, this time with Vojtech Tuka, the Slovak Prime Minister. It was “a conversation with a madman” he reported. Tuka kept repeating that Slovaks were going to rid the country of the Jewish “plague, that band of criminals and gangsters.” Burzio asked him whether the deportations were being carried out because of pressure from Germany. The prime minister swore that it was exclusively Slovak “will and initiative.” On 26 October 1944, Burzio called Tiso and his government “servile executors” of Hitler’s demands. On Christmas Eve 1944, the president stated in a sermon that Germany was “the flag bearer of the most progressive social ideas.”

    • Agree: AP
    • Replies: @Beckow
    It is hard to comment on your incoherent post. I pointed out to you before that endless use of 'no, you are stupid' (= your obvious hiding behind 'it is just projection') is infantile.

    Few points:
    Your Nazi-worshipping line below:


    senseless partisan warfare in Belarus and Ukraine to provoke German retaliations
     
    ...conflicts directly with your later denouncing of the Slovak WWII state. Which is it? Is it good to 'resist', or is that just a 'provoking the Germans'?

    Your brief history of Czechoslovak communism is upside down, the silly imagining of fascist-to-communist stampede in Slovakia after WWII is simply not true, communists were substantially stronger in Czechia, all data shows it, the personnel shows it. I am not a fan of the WWII Slovak state, and my family fought against it in the 1944 uprising. But it is generally accepted that given the miserable alternatives in 1939, it was a necessary step in saving the nation. The alternative was very straightforward: an occupation by fascist Hungary. Everything you say about Slovakia in WWII can be also said about every single European country, from Belgium to Croatia, from Norway to Hungary. Nobody defends it.

    But I thought you were the Nazi sympathizer here, the Sudeten-Bandera defender. I guess, your opportunism has no limits, but it makes your points self-contradictory and incoherent. If Belorussians should had collaborated with the Nazis and not resist, why does it bother you that other did it in order to survive?

  208. AP says:
    @Mikhail
    Do you seriously believe that the Ukrainians and Belarusians of that period were happy living under Polish rule and that the Polish government (especially after Pilsudski's death) was showing signs of becoming even more intolerant towards their non-Polish citizens?

    As previously expressed, I don't dispute the brutal Soviet aspect, which in turn enhanced the anti-Soviet stance, among the Ukrainians based on territory formerly ruled by the Habsburgs and Poles.

    Do you seriously believe that the Ukrainians and Belarusians of that period were happy living under Polish rule and that the Polish government (especially after Pilsudski’s death) was showing signs of becoming even more intolerant towards their non-Polish citizens?

    The nationalists were unhappy, but they were not mass-murdered, and that is a huge difference. The simpler folk in Belarus who hadn’t learned nationalism probably were not unhappy.

    You are a descendant of Russian Whites, so it is odd that you would have problems with the Polish government in western Ukraine. The Russophiles in Galicia were happy with Polish rule. The Polish government opened up Russian cultural centers and so on:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stauropegion_Institute

    My grandmother’s cousin was a Russophile leader in Lviv. He and his wife poisoned themselves rather than live under Sovok rule after 1939.

    • Replies: @Mikhail

    You are a descendant of Russian Whites, so it is odd that you would have problems with the Polish government in western Ukraine. The Russophiles in Galicia were happy with Polish rule. The Polish government opened up Russian cultural centers and so on:
     
    The Russophiles under Polish rule acknowledge that things there got worse following Pilsudski's death.

    With retrospection especially in mind, Pilsudski further Soviet aims:

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/08042016-fuzzy-history-how-poland-saved-the-world-from-russia-analysis/

    Once again, these comments don't deny the brutal Soviet aspects, especially under Stalin.
  209. AP says:
    @Anonymoose
    Do you have any info on how many descendants of deported Poles live in Russia today?

    He is an idiot who has no info.

    My wife is a partial descendant of those Poles (she is half Polish). Many of them were officially Ukrainian or Belarussian by nationality to hide their Polish ethnicity. Some high percentage of those deported died along the way under brutal conditions so there are not as many as one would assume given the large number who were deported. There is a Polish church in Moscow:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathedral_of_the_Immaculate_Conception_(Moscow)

    I celebrated Christmas there one year.

  210. @Anatoly Karlin
    I have no idea, but Aubrey de Grey is getting more optimistic: https://www.unz.com/akarlin/aubrey-de-grey-getting-more-optimistic-on-life-extension/

    Aubrey de Grey

    I think he’s coming to Moscow in a couple of weeks.

    • Replies: @Abelard Lindsey
    Cool!
  211. @JL

    Aubrey de Grey
     
    I think he's coming to Moscow in a couple of weeks.

    Cool!

  212. @AP

    Do you seriously believe that the Ukrainians and Belarusians of that period were happy living under Polish rule and that the Polish government (especially after Pilsudski’s death) was showing signs of becoming even more intolerant towards their non-Polish citizens?
     
    The nationalists were unhappy, but they were not mass-murdered, and that is a huge difference. The simpler folk in Belarus who hadn't learned nationalism probably were not unhappy.

    You are a descendant of Russian Whites, so it is odd that you would have problems with the Polish government in western Ukraine. The Russophiles in Galicia were happy with Polish rule. The Polish government opened up Russian cultural centers and so on:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stauropegion_Institute

    My grandmother's cousin was a Russophile leader in Lviv. He and his wife poisoned themselves rather than live under Sovok rule after 1939.

    You are a descendant of Russian Whites, so it is odd that you would have problems with the Polish government in western Ukraine. The Russophiles in Galicia were happy with Polish rule. The Polish government opened up Russian cultural centers and so on:

    The Russophiles under Polish rule acknowledge that things there got worse following Pilsudski’s death.

    With retrospection especially in mind, Pilsudski further Soviet aims:

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/08042016-fuzzy-history-how-poland-saved-the-world-from-russia-analysis/

    Once again, these comments don’t deny the brutal Soviet aspects, especially under Stalin.

    • Replies: @AP

    The Russophiles under Polish rule acknowledge that things there got worse following Pilsudski’s death.
     
    Did you know any? The ones in Galicia were happy with Poland and indeed were funded by the Polish government. The Polish government also protected shielded them, to the extent it could, from Ukrainian nationalists. It did these things for two reasons:

    1. The divide the eastern Slavic population in Galicia by supporting the weaker party

    2. Mutual enemies - both Poland and the Russophiles (they simply called themselves Russians) were anti-Soviet and anti-Ukrainian nationalists. To be sure, from both sides it was an alliance of convenience (Russophiles wanted Galicia to become part of Russia, Poland of course did not) but it held strong.

    In Volhynia it may have been different due to the persecution of the Orthodox Church, albeit this was a Ukrainian not Russian one. But in Galicia the Russophiles were on the Polish side.
  213. @utu

    Do you seriously believe that the Ukrainians and Belarusians of that period were happy living under Polish rule and that the Polish government (especially after Pilsudski’s death) was showing signs of becoming even more intolerant towards their non-Polish citizens?
     
    Absolutely. They were much happier in Poland. The alternative for them was this:

    The 1930s marked the peak of Soviet repressions in Belarus. According to incomplete calculations, about 600,000 people fell victim to Soviet repressions in Belarus between 1917 and 1953.[15][16] Other estimates put the number at higher than 1.4 million persons.,[17] of which 250,000 were sentenced by judicial or executed by extrajudicial bodies (dvoikas, troikas, special commissions of the OGPU, NKVD, MGB). Excluding those sentenced in the 1920s–1930s, over 250,000 Belarusians were deported as kulaks or kulak family members in regions outside the Belarusian Soviet Republic. The scale of Soviet terror in Belarus was higher than in Russia or Ukraine which resulted in a much stronger extent of Russification in the republic.
     
    Some in Poland were fooled by Soviet propaganda about the workers' paradise but most of them who were farmers with land were happy.

    So I would say they were much happier in Poland except that in Poland they were relatively free to voice their grievances and unhappiness while in the USSR the unhappy ones were dekulakized, deported and killed. The unhappy gene among Belarusians was eliminated in the USSR and the only carriers of this unhappy gene survived in Poland. The same goes for Ukrainians. If it was not for free Poland Ukrainians and Belarusians would have been crushed beyond a possibility of recovering their national aspirations.

    If it was not for free Poland Ukrainians and Belarusians would have been crushed beyond a possibility of recovering their national aspirations.

    The act of the matter is that free Poland wasn’t so free, with the USSR establishing a certain identity for Ukrainians and Belarusians.

    This facet explains why the Belarusians and Ukrainians under Polish rule didn’t by and large fight against the USSR when it entered the former’s territory in 1939.

    I don’t disagree that the Soviet heavy handedness thereafter had changed the mindset of many of these Belarusians and Ukrainians – especially among the latter.

    Notwithstanding, more Ukrainians fought on the side of the Red Army than the OUN/UPA.

    BTW, among anti-Communist Ukrainians, there was a noticeable number of them fighting on the side of Vlasov, whose movement wasn’t particularly liked by the OUN/UPA. The most famous of these pro-Russian Ukrainians;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Bunyachenko

    • Replies: @Anonymoose
    honestly I don't think you can convince this fool utu. Looking through his comments he seems to be an unironic Naziphile hence the stupid historical revisionism. He probably suffers from psychosis or something similar.
    , @AP

    BTW, among anti-Communist Ukrainians, there was a noticeable number of them fighting on the side of Vlasov, whose movement wasn’t particularly liked by the OUN/UPA. The most famous of these pro-Russian Ukrainians;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Bunyachenko
     
    He may be of Ukrainian descent but he was from Kursk, Russia, not from Ukraine.

    From my experience people from local Russophile families tended to be officers in the Polish military, or didn't participate on anyone's side, with only a small number allying with the Reds or the Nazis.
    , @utu
    "free Poland wasn’t so free" - comparing to USSR Poland was a Speakers' Corner in London's Hyde Park.
  214. @Mikhail

    If it was not for free Poland Ukrainians and Belarusians would have been crushed beyond a possibility of recovering their national aspirations.
     
    The act of the matter is that free Poland wasn't so free, with the USSR establishing a certain identity for Ukrainians and Belarusians.

    This facet explains why the Belarusians and Ukrainians under Polish rule didn't by and large fight against the USSR when it entered the former's territory in 1939.

    I don't disagree that the Soviet heavy handedness thereafter had changed the mindset of many of these Belarusians and Ukrainians - especially among the latter.

    Notwithstanding, more Ukrainians fought on the side of the Red Army than the OUN/UPA.

    BTW, among anti-Communist Ukrainians, there was a noticeable number of them fighting on the side of Vlasov, whose movement wasn't particularly liked by the OUN/UPA. The most famous of these pro-Russian Ukrainians;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Bunyachenko

    honestly I don’t think you can convince this fool utu. Looking through his comments he seems to be an unironic Naziphile hence the stupid historical revisionism. He probably suffers from psychosis or something similar.

    • Disagree: AP
  215. AP says:
    @Mikhail

    You are a descendant of Russian Whites, so it is odd that you would have problems with the Polish government in western Ukraine. The Russophiles in Galicia were happy with Polish rule. The Polish government opened up Russian cultural centers and so on:
     
    The Russophiles under Polish rule acknowledge that things there got worse following Pilsudski's death.

    With retrospection especially in mind, Pilsudski further Soviet aims:

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/08042016-fuzzy-history-how-poland-saved-the-world-from-russia-analysis/

    Once again, these comments don't deny the brutal Soviet aspects, especially under Stalin.

    The Russophiles under Polish rule acknowledge that things there got worse following Pilsudski’s death.

    Did you know any? The ones in Galicia were happy with Poland and indeed were funded by the Polish government. The Polish government also protected shielded them, to the extent it could, from Ukrainian nationalists. It did these things for two reasons:

    1. The divide the eastern Slavic population in Galicia by supporting the weaker party

    2. Mutual enemies – both Poland and the Russophiles (they simply called themselves Russians) were anti-Soviet and anti-Ukrainian nationalists. To be sure, from both sides it was an alliance of convenience (Russophiles wanted Galicia to become part of Russia, Poland of course did not) but it held strong.

    In Volhynia it may have been different due to the persecution of the Orthodox Church, albeit this was a Ukrainian not Russian one. But in Galicia the Russophiles were on the Polish side.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    Sure do know such Russophiles who weren't happy with the Polish government between the two world wars, especially after Pilsudski's death. These anti-Communist Russophiles were of course opposed to the USSR as well.

    The Whites were used and abused by Pilsudski, with the former not at all pleased with that situation, while being anti-Soviet.

    The Bandera types between the two world wars were primarily opposed to Polish rule. After the Russian Civil War, a number of Ukrainians associated with the Russian Empire/former Russian Empire based Petliura settled in Polish held territory. They weren't pro-Russian, unlike some other Ukrainians, whose views on Russia ranged from neutral to in a pro-Russian leaning category.

    If the Soviets weren't heavy handed in their taking of Polish territory, the opposition that developed to them would've been considerably less - something clearly suggested by Subtelny in his book.
  216. AP says:
    @Mikhail

    If it was not for free Poland Ukrainians and Belarusians would have been crushed beyond a possibility of recovering their national aspirations.
     
    The act of the matter is that free Poland wasn't so free, with the USSR establishing a certain identity for Ukrainians and Belarusians.

    This facet explains why the Belarusians and Ukrainians under Polish rule didn't by and large fight against the USSR when it entered the former's territory in 1939.

    I don't disagree that the Soviet heavy handedness thereafter had changed the mindset of many of these Belarusians and Ukrainians - especially among the latter.

    Notwithstanding, more Ukrainians fought on the side of the Red Army than the OUN/UPA.

    BTW, among anti-Communist Ukrainians, there was a noticeable number of them fighting on the side of Vlasov, whose movement wasn't particularly liked by the OUN/UPA. The most famous of these pro-Russian Ukrainians;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Bunyachenko

    BTW, among anti-Communist Ukrainians, there was a noticeable number of them fighting on the side of Vlasov, whose movement wasn’t particularly liked by the OUN/UPA. The most famous of these pro-Russian Ukrainians;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Bunyachenko

    He may be of Ukrainian descent but he was from Kursk, Russia, not from Ukraine.

    From my experience people from local Russophile families tended to be officers in the Polish military, or didn’t participate on anyone’s side, with only a small number allying with the Reds or the Nazis.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    I know someone whose family included someone high ranking in the Polish officer corps, who detested Pilsudski for his Machiavellian act which favored the Bolsheviks - something discussed in this piece:

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/08042016-fuzzy-history-how-poland-saved-the-world-from-russia-analysis/

    Regarding Bunyachenko, I recall the late historian John Armstrong concluding that up to 40% of Vlasov's army consisted of ethnic Ukrainians.
  217. @AaronB
    Such shocking hypocrisy!

    Israel has black Jews, Indian Jews, Chinese Jews, blond haired blue eyed light skinned Jews, and swarthy black haired olive skinned Jews.

    Israel actually spent considerable time and resources, and risked intelligence assets and special army units, in airlifting black Jews from Ethiopia into Israel.

    Oh, the hypocrisy of that dastardly Hazony wanting racial purity for Israel vs his advocating a mere nation for America!

    But I do feel sorry for you whites - stripped off national traits by the Enlightenment, the only organizing principle you have left is the abstract one of "race".

    And you seem unable to intelligently study historically successful national entities and adapt their principles - captured as you are by maximalist Enlightenment thinking.

    Well, good luck with history's only known attempt to craft a civilization based entirely on race. The modern world is indeed a time of experiment.

    Your beloved Israel is effectively Apartheid with Euro Jews at the top while Negroes and Arabs are the lessers.

    America guaranteed to degenerate into a Mestizo pit like Brazil too.

  218. @Mikhail

    If it was not for free Poland Ukrainians and Belarusians would have been crushed beyond a possibility of recovering their national aspirations.
     
    The act of the matter is that free Poland wasn't so free, with the USSR establishing a certain identity for Ukrainians and Belarusians.

    This facet explains why the Belarusians and Ukrainians under Polish rule didn't by and large fight against the USSR when it entered the former's territory in 1939.

    I don't disagree that the Soviet heavy handedness thereafter had changed the mindset of many of these Belarusians and Ukrainians - especially among the latter.

    Notwithstanding, more Ukrainians fought on the side of the Red Army than the OUN/UPA.

    BTW, among anti-Communist Ukrainians, there was a noticeable number of them fighting on the side of Vlasov, whose movement wasn't particularly liked by the OUN/UPA. The most famous of these pro-Russian Ukrainians;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Bunyachenko

    “free Poland wasn’t so free” – comparing to USSR Poland was a Speakers’ Corner in London’s Hyde Park.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    Poland was moving more less freedom following Pilsudski's death. That the Soviet Union was worse doesn't change that aspect.

    If Poland was so great, the OUN/UPA types wouldn't have opposed Poland and would've fought the Soviets when the latter initially entered Polish held territory in 1939. In turn, the Soviets lost much of that population c/o the former's harsh treatment.
  219. @AP

    The Russophiles under Polish rule acknowledge that things there got worse following Pilsudski’s death.
     
    Did you know any? The ones in Galicia were happy with Poland and indeed were funded by the Polish government. The Polish government also protected shielded them, to the extent it could, from Ukrainian nationalists. It did these things for two reasons:

    1. The divide the eastern Slavic population in Galicia by supporting the weaker party

    2. Mutual enemies - both Poland and the Russophiles (they simply called themselves Russians) were anti-Soviet and anti-Ukrainian nationalists. To be sure, from both sides it was an alliance of convenience (Russophiles wanted Galicia to become part of Russia, Poland of course did not) but it held strong.

    In Volhynia it may have been different due to the persecution of the Orthodox Church, albeit this was a Ukrainian not Russian one. But in Galicia the Russophiles were on the Polish side.

    Sure do know such Russophiles who weren’t happy with the Polish government between the two world wars, especially after Pilsudski’s death. These anti-Communist Russophiles were of course opposed to the USSR as well.

    The Whites were used and abused by Pilsudski, with the former not at all pleased with that situation, while being anti-Soviet.

    The Bandera types between the two world wars were primarily opposed to Polish rule. After the Russian Civil War, a number of Ukrainians associated with the Russian Empire/former Russian Empire based Petliura settled in Polish held territory. They weren’t pro-Russian, unlike some other Ukrainians, whose views on Russia ranged from neutral to in a pro-Russian leaning category.

    If the Soviets weren’t heavy handed in their taking of Polish territory, the opposition that developed to them would’ve been considerably less – something clearly suggested by Subtelny in his book.

  220. @AP

    BTW, among anti-Communist Ukrainians, there was a noticeable number of them fighting on the side of Vlasov, whose movement wasn’t particularly liked by the OUN/UPA. The most famous of these pro-Russian Ukrainians;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Bunyachenko
     
    He may be of Ukrainian descent but he was from Kursk, Russia, not from Ukraine.

    From my experience people from local Russophile families tended to be officers in the Polish military, or didn't participate on anyone's side, with only a small number allying with the Reds or the Nazis.

    I know someone whose family included someone high ranking in the Polish officer corps, who detested Pilsudski for his Machiavellian act which favored the Bolsheviks – something discussed in this piece:

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/08042016-fuzzy-history-how-poland-saved-the-world-from-russia-analysis/

    Regarding Bunyachenko, I recall the late historian John Armstrong concluding that up to 40% of Vlasov’s army consisted of ethnic Ukrainians.

  221. @utu
    "free Poland wasn’t so free" - comparing to USSR Poland was a Speakers' Corner in London's Hyde Park.

    Poland was moving more less freedom following Pilsudski’s death. That the Soviet Union was worse doesn’t change that aspect.

    If Poland was so great, the OUN/UPA types wouldn’t have opposed Poland and would’ve fought the Soviets when the latter initially entered Polish held territory in 1939. In turn, the Soviets lost much of that population c/o the former’s harsh treatment.

  222. I think Roosh is going to pivot into some kind of born again preacher gig in the next 5 years, complete with florid tales of his “misspent” and “sinful” youth. Best of luck! But I suspect he’ll have to drop his new-fangled interest in KMac’s work to get inroads into that crowd.

    Born-again Christian fans of KMac do exist (myself, for instance).

    A People That Shall Dwell Alone is somewhat problematic, but Separation and Its Discontents and Culture of Critique are not at all incompatible with Christianity – indeed, they are a necessary corrective to Christians who try to try to fight the culture war without being honest about the identity and motives of the adversary; or who engage in totally counter-productive attacks on Darwinian hard science, not realizing that Darwinian hard science is an invaluable ally against anti-Christian pseudo-science such as Marxist economics, Freudian psychology, Boasian anthropology and Frankfurt School sociology. Cultural Insurrections contains some material useful for rebuking the worst heresy of our time, “Christian Zionism”.

  223. @for-the-record
    The commenter for-the-record seems to have disappeared. I hope he’s okay.

    I'm touched that you noticed my absence, seriously. I'm alive and well, just have had nothing useful to say for a while. And watering my banana trees (they are herbs actually, I assume everyone here is aware of that) has taken more time than usual given the lack of rain.

    Thanks for the update! Have a nice time doing whatever you’re doing.

  224. Lauren Southern is retiring.

    Is the thot leaving because she loses what remains of her credibility?

    Two gay video producers stole tens of thousands of dollars from Tommy Robinson to fund shopping sprees, lavish dinners and champagne-fueled parties in London’s most expensive zip codes, say a string of witnesses. They endangered conservative celebrities by leaking security information to Antifa, and worked with progressive journalists to cook up damaging stories about Right-wing media figures. Former colleagues say their boss, Lauren Southern, knew about everything they were doing, and encouraged them.

    “It stretches credulity to its absolute upper limits that Lauren didn’t know or care what they were doing,” Faith Goldy, a journalist and mayoral candidate who used to be close friends with Southern, wrote to a friend in May, in text messages provided to this publication by a third party. Goldy did not return a request for comment, but the implication of her private correspondence is clear: Southern was in on it. Another person, a former friend of Southern’s, was more direct. “Trust me, she knew about everything. Why do you think she’s quitting journalism? Who retires at 26? Her ‘retirement’ isn’t about making babies. It’s about dodging bullets.”

    Lauren Southern, whose real name is Lauren Simonsen, categorically denies everything. “I would never support doxing and I would never support hurting other conservatives,” she says. “If I had known about this, I would have done something.” Robertson remembers it differently, or so he says. He claims that he discussed his “projects” and “operations” with Southern and that she enjoyed being informed about them, and even provided suggestions as to whom they might “hit next.” Southern insists that all she was ever told by Robertson and Llewelyn-John was that they were being “blackmailed” by Hope not Hate and feeding the activist group false information to “placate” them.

    Lauren Southern now says she met up with Hope not Hate staff merely “for a laugh,” though no one will disclose what they talked about. The last laugh in that situation, however, did not belong to her. Less than a year after her meeting with its research team, Hope not Hate was instrumental in having Southern booted off funding platform Patreon, a financial blow she would later privately describe as moving her to tears and as a complete destruction of her income.

    If whispers around the London Buzzfeed offices are right, Southern’s protection of the couple might have come at an even heavier cost. At least one editor who covers politics at the new media company says she’s seen evidence that Robertson worked closely with Hope not Hate to get Southern’s U.K. visa denied, and that they did it out of pure spite.

    https://www.dangerous.com/50638/say-farewell-to-the-klepto-queens-of-the-british-far-right/

    • Agree: Anonymoose
    • Replies: @Anonymoose
    Maybe she can go into public stripping and giving lap dances at some lavish parties. She looks like the snark, snooty, bitchy type.
    , @notanon

    Is the thot leaving because she loses what remains of her credibility?
     
    some of the less perceptive alt-right figures have been saying the shuttening was not going to extend to the alt-lite and beyond but she's a bright girl so could see the writing on the wall and she's likely to be spared if she bows out now - sexism has its advantages.

    (Roosh probably won't be imo no matter how he pivots to avoid it).
  225. @Mitleser

    Lauren Southern is retiring.
     
    Is the thot leaving because she loses what remains of her credibility?

    Two gay video producers stole tens of thousands of dollars from Tommy Robinson to fund shopping sprees, lavish dinners and champagne-fueled parties in London’s most expensive zip codes, say a string of witnesses. They endangered conservative celebrities by leaking security information to Antifa, and worked with progressive journalists to cook up damaging stories about Right-wing media figures. Former colleagues say their boss, Lauren Southern, knew about everything they were doing, and encouraged them.
     

    “It stretches credulity to its absolute upper limits that Lauren didn’t know or care what they were doing,” Faith Goldy, a journalist and mayoral candidate who used to be close friends with Southern, wrote to a friend in May, in text messages provided to this publication by a third party. Goldy did not return a request for comment, but the implication of her private correspondence is clear: Southern was in on it. Another person, a former friend of Southern’s, was more direct. “Trust me, she knew about everything. Why do you think she’s quitting journalism? Who retires at 26? Her ‘retirement’ isn’t about making babies. It’s about dodging bullets.”

    Lauren Southern, whose real name is Lauren Simonsen, categorically denies everything. “I would never support doxing and I would never support hurting other conservatives,” she says. “If I had known about this, I would have done something.” Robertson remembers it differently, or so he says. He claims that he discussed his “projects” and “operations” with Southern and that she enjoyed being informed about them, and even provided suggestions as to whom they might “hit next.” Southern insists that all she was ever told by Robertson and Llewelyn-John was that they were being “blackmailed” by Hope not Hate and feeding the activist group false information to “placate” them.
     

    Lauren Southern now says she met up with Hope not Hate staff merely “for a laugh,” though no one will disclose what they talked about. The last laugh in that situation, however, did not belong to her. Less than a year after her meeting with its research team, Hope not Hate was instrumental in having Southern booted off funding platform Patreon, a financial blow she would later privately describe as moving her to tears and as a complete destruction of her income.
     

    If whispers around the London Buzzfeed offices are right, Southern’s protection of the couple might have come at an even heavier cost. At least one editor who covers politics at the new media company says she’s seen evidence that Robertson worked closely with Hope not Hate to get Southern’s U.K. visa denied, and that they did it out of pure spite.
     
    https://www.dangerous.com/50638/say-farewell-to-the-klepto-queens-of-the-british-far-right/

    Maybe she can go into public stripping and giving lap dances at some lavish parties. She looks like the snark, snooty, bitchy type.

  226. @utu
    (1) 100,000? - Maybe not. But one can easily argue 50,000 of Poles killed after 1944 when Red Army reentered pre WWII Polish territory. This includes the ones who never returned from mass deportations of 1944, 1945, 1946. In 1945 form Silesia alone up 70,000 people were deported to USSR. They were Germans, Silesians and Poles. Many miners who were sent to mines in USSR. It is believed that only 20% returned.

    (2) "Russians also lost millions in WWII." - So what. BTW, the numbers could have been lower if (a) Red Army had a better tactic and (2) if Stalin did not unleash senseless partisan warfare in Belarus and Ukraine to provoke German retaliations to arrest the process of local populations cozying up with German occupiers.

    (3) "Poles do that here all the time – they are beside themselves with their hatred of anything Russian (and now Slovak or Czech?)." - Take some medication. You are lashing out blindly.

    (4) "It is a form of a mental disease" - Projection.

    (5) "You are not interested in what really happened. " - Projection. I do know what really happened as I have research the issues for many years. My interest waned since. The only reason I entered this discussion was as a corrective measure to your emotional outbursts.

    (6) "The 3 million Polish communists were real" - I had to research it. This number is for 1980. During Gierek's regime time of prosperity there was a drive to recruit more party members mostly among low intelligentsia. They could not get workers. Mostly opportunists. People were getting passport to travel West where they would earn some extra money to buy a car or apartment. Being a party member getting passport was easier. These people were no communists. In 1970 the membership was circa 2 millions. And we know how it ended. With Solidarity in 1980 when 800,000 people quit party membership.

    Since assuming power in 1948, the KSČ had one of the largest per capita membership rolls in the communist world (11 percent of the population).

    Despite this attrition, a membership of "almost 1,200,000" was claimed in the spring of 1971 for a country with an estimated population of approximately 14.5 million—still one of the highest Communist party membership rates in the world on a percentage basis at that time.

    Party leaders at the Seventeenth Party Congress in 1986 urged the recruitment of more workers, young people, and women. In 1981 it had 1,538,179 members (10% of the population)
     
    (7) "It was real and it led to dramatic changes like welfare, higher living standards, medical care, etc… Why do you all pretend that this didn’t happen? " - I know. We heard of your grandma's new dentures gifted to her by commies. While on the other side of the Iron Curtain people were toothless.

    (8) "Even Poles had strong commie sympathies at that time." - Some did. Majority did not.

    (9) "Czechs voted for commies 40% in 1946, Slovaks 30%. Slovaks are more religious" - Irrelevant to my point which was that Slovaks because of their incomparably greater sins than Czechs in terms of collaboration with Nazis and facilitation of Nazi Holocaust had much stronger motivation to be servile in new Soviet order and become their most enthusiastic collaborators. Is there a gene for being a collaborator?

    The tragedy was that Slovak nationalists received the coveted Slovak state as a present from the most soiled hands in recorded history: those of Adolf Hitler. Czechoslovakia had been formed twenty years earlier by Masaryk, Benes, and their collegues who had secured the help of such democrats as Woodrow Wilson, Georges Clemenceau, and Lloyd George. By contrast, the Slovak state came into existence as an explicitly fascist entity under the protection of Hitler's Third Reich. ("unter den Schutz des Deutschen Reiches") and it behaved accordingly throughout its existence. Characteristic of the new state's modus operandi is an order issued on the first day of Slovakia's existence by Pavol Carnogursky, chief of the Hlinka Guards: "Escaping Czechs and Jews are to be searched and their money and jewelry confiscated." Imitating their master in Berlin, Slovak fascists gradually declared war on Poland, the Soviet Union, and even on Great Britain and the United States; they sent their elite divisions to fight the first two. Without much obvious pressure from Berlin, the country's president, Jozef Tiso, a priest, presided over the build-up of a quasi-Nazi state in Slovakia. Especially repulsive was his handling of Jews. The newspaper Slovak of 16 June 1941 boasted that the Tiso government had shifted the definition of Jew from religious to racial. The paper was pleased that this would allow a sharper separation of Jews from other citizens. When Goebbels came to Slovakia in August 1941, he had only praise for his ally: "After the victory in this great war, its history will be written. And in this history Slovakia will be given a special, honorable place. You Slovaks were the first to join Germany. And you did so at a time when others looked at us with mockery, contempt, and fear." The Slovak government bragged on 3 September 1942 that "Slovakia as the first state in southeastern Europe provided an example also to other states for solving the Jewish question." There were about 90,000 Jews in Slovakia at the beginning of the war. Of these, Tiso exempted about ten thousand from destruction because they were deemed irreplaceable for Slovak economic life. Consequently, "only" 80,000 were subject to deportations. Tiso also insisted in Berlin that Slovak Jewish families should not be ripped apart upon arrival at the camp. Hitler listened and, therefore, 2,482 babies and toddlers went to the gas chamber in their mothers' arms. Eventually, 57,837 Jews from Slovakia (7,063 of whom were less than ten years old) perished in the Holocaust.

    Incredibly, present-day defenders of war-time Slovakia now argue that there was nothing anti-Semitic about the Slovak state of 1939-45. The aforementioned Pavol Carnogursky, who returned to politics for a short time after the Velvet Revolution and who was the father of a family that remains politically active to the present, asserted that the Slovak Constitution under President Tiso "was based on the Christian principle which was uphold in all laws." But this was clearly not the view of the Holy See. Actes et Documentes du Saint Siege Relatifs a la Seconde Guerre Mondiale (Citta del Vaticano: Libreria Editrice Vaticana, 1965 to 1981) is a collection of documents pertaining to the diplomatic activities of the Vatican during World War II. Among other evidence, it contains communications between the Vatican charge d'affaires in slovakia, Msgr. Guiseppe Burzio and Luigi Cardinal Maglione, the chief of Vatican diplomacy. On 5 September 1940, Burzio reported to the Holy See that Tiso had recently invited Slovak citizens - with quotations from the Gospels - "to regenerate themselves in the water and spirit of National Socialism." On 7 September 1941, the shocked Burzio wrote that in a sermon Tiso had identified the national socialist doctrine of the Third Reich with Catholic social teaching. Burzio "sharply" criticized this view, but the Slvoak president remained untouched. On 9 March 1942, Burzio called the Vatican with news of the planned mass deportations of Jews to death-camps. This cruel plan, he said, was being implemented without German pressure. In fact, Berlin demanded 500 Reich marks and food for two weeks for each Slovak Jewish deportee (by the end of he war, Slovakia had paid RD40 million to the coffers of the Third Reich). Burzio said that he had spoken with the Slovak Prime Minister, "and he took the liberty to say (he who displays his catholicism to much) that he found nothing inhumane or undemocratic about it all. To deport those 80,000 persons to Poland, and to hand them over to the Germans, means for many of them a certain death [equivale condanmarne gran parte morte sicura]." Despite Burzio's interventions, the Tiso government carried out its plan to destroy Slovak Jews "in the most brutal manner," and the Vatican informed Tiso via its charge that what was taking place in Slovakia was a disgrace for a Catholic country. On 19 May 1942, Bishop Gojdic from Presov sent a letter to Msgr. Burzio suggesting that Tiso should be reduced to the lay state (ad statum laicalem) because what he was doing to the Jews exsuperavit omnem inhumanitatem, and was in fact reminiscent of Bolshevik barbarism. On 10 April 1943, Burzio tried again to intervene against the deportations, this time with Vojtech Tuka, the Slovak Prime Minister. It was "a conversation with a madman" he reported. Tuka kept repeating that Slovaks were going to rid the country of the Jewish "plague, that band of criminals and gangsters." Burzio asked him whether the deportations were being carried out because of pressure from Germany. The prime minister swore that it was exclusively Slovak "will and initiative." On 26 October 1944, Burzio called Tiso and his government "servile executors" of Hitler's demands. On Christmas Eve 1944, the president stated in a sermon that Germany was "the flag bearer of the most progressive social ideas."
     

    It is hard to comment on your incoherent post. I pointed out to you before that endless use of ‘no, you are stupid’ (= your obvious hiding behind ‘it is just projection’) is infantile.

    Few points:
    Your Nazi-worshipping line below:

    senseless partisan warfare in Belarus and Ukraine to provoke German retaliations

    …conflicts directly with your later denouncing of the Slovak WWII state. Which is it? Is it good to ‘resist’, or is that just a ‘provoking the Germans’?

    Your brief history of Czechoslovak communism is upside down, the silly imagining of fascist-to-communist stampede in Slovakia after WWII is simply not true, communists were substantially stronger in Czechia, all data shows it, the personnel shows it. I am not a fan of the WWII Slovak state, and my family fought against it in the 1944 uprising. But it is generally accepted that given the miserable alternatives in 1939, it was a necessary step in saving the nation. The alternative was very straightforward: an occupation by fascist Hungary. Everything you say about Slovakia in WWII can be also said about every single European country, from Belgium to Croatia, from Norway to Hungary. Nobody defends it.

    But I thought you were the Nazi sympathizer here, the Sudeten-Bandera defender. I guess, your opportunism has no limits, but it makes your points self-contradictory and incoherent. If Belorussians should had collaborated with the Nazis and not resist, why does it bother you that other did it in order to survive?

    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    fascist Hungary
     
    Hungary was not fascist. It had a parliament with social democrats in it until the German occupation in March 1944.
  227. @Abelard Lindsey
    If traditionalism is so wonderful, why does is not correlate with (and foster) the virtues of property rights, objective rule of law, and transparent financial markets? Clearly these are desirable things, no?

    traditionalism does correlate with
    – property rights (for and among the elite)
    – objective rule of law (for and among the elite)
    – no financial markets yet

    traditionalism takes time to evolve so for those aspects of traditionalism to evolve the material conditions have to exist first.

    • Replies: @Abelard Lindsey
    On the surface, I'm fine with traditionalism. I get along with every body.

    The problem is when they want to regulate private life activities above and beyond merely preventing criminal and other forms of predatory behavior. This is where the advocates of traditionalism loose me.

    But you're right. Traditionalism traditionally benefited the elites at the expense of everyone else. It has especially screwed those who were as competent and intelligent as the elites, but for whatever bullshit reason, were not allowed to join the elites. Such people really have no choice but to strike out on their own. Why should they have to play second-fiddle in life?
  228. @Mitleser

    Lauren Southern is retiring.
     
    Is the thot leaving because she loses what remains of her credibility?

    Two gay video producers stole tens of thousands of dollars from Tommy Robinson to fund shopping sprees, lavish dinners and champagne-fueled parties in London’s most expensive zip codes, say a string of witnesses. They endangered conservative celebrities by leaking security information to Antifa, and worked with progressive journalists to cook up damaging stories about Right-wing media figures. Former colleagues say their boss, Lauren Southern, knew about everything they were doing, and encouraged them.
     

    “It stretches credulity to its absolute upper limits that Lauren didn’t know or care what they were doing,” Faith Goldy, a journalist and mayoral candidate who used to be close friends with Southern, wrote to a friend in May, in text messages provided to this publication by a third party. Goldy did not return a request for comment, but the implication of her private correspondence is clear: Southern was in on it. Another person, a former friend of Southern’s, was more direct. “Trust me, she knew about everything. Why do you think she’s quitting journalism? Who retires at 26? Her ‘retirement’ isn’t about making babies. It’s about dodging bullets.”

    Lauren Southern, whose real name is Lauren Simonsen, categorically denies everything. “I would never support doxing and I would never support hurting other conservatives,” she says. “If I had known about this, I would have done something.” Robertson remembers it differently, or so he says. He claims that he discussed his “projects” and “operations” with Southern and that she enjoyed being informed about them, and even provided suggestions as to whom they might “hit next.” Southern insists that all she was ever told by Robertson and Llewelyn-John was that they were being “blackmailed” by Hope not Hate and feeding the activist group false information to “placate” them.
     

    Lauren Southern now says she met up with Hope not Hate staff merely “for a laugh,” though no one will disclose what they talked about. The last laugh in that situation, however, did not belong to her. Less than a year after her meeting with its research team, Hope not Hate was instrumental in having Southern booted off funding platform Patreon, a financial blow she would later privately describe as moving her to tears and as a complete destruction of her income.
     

    If whispers around the London Buzzfeed offices are right, Southern’s protection of the couple might have come at an even heavier cost. At least one editor who covers politics at the new media company says she’s seen evidence that Robertson worked closely with Hope not Hate to get Southern’s U.K. visa denied, and that they did it out of pure spite.
     
    https://www.dangerous.com/50638/say-farewell-to-the-klepto-queens-of-the-british-far-right/

    Is the thot leaving because she loses what remains of her credibility?

    some of the less perceptive alt-right figures have been saying the shuttening was not going to extend to the alt-lite and beyond but she’s a bright girl so could see the writing on the wall and she’s likely to be spared if she bows out now – sexism has its advantages.

    (Roosh probably won’t be imo no matter how he pivots to avoid it).

  229. @notanon
    traditionalism does correlate with
    - property rights (for and among the elite)
    - objective rule of law (for and among the elite)
    - no financial markets yet

    traditionalism takes time to evolve so for those aspects of traditionalism to evolve the material conditions have to exist first.

    On the surface, I’m fine with traditionalism. I get along with every body.

    The problem is when they want to regulate private life activities above and beyond merely preventing criminal and other forms of predatory behavior. This is where the advocates of traditionalism loose me.

    But you’re right. Traditionalism traditionally benefited the elites at the expense of everyone else. It has especially screwed those who were as competent and intelligent as the elites, but for whatever bullshit reason, were not allowed to join the elites. Such people really have no choice but to strike out on their own. Why should they have to play second-fiddle in life?

  230. @Beckow
    It is hard to comment on your incoherent post. I pointed out to you before that endless use of 'no, you are stupid' (= your obvious hiding behind 'it is just projection') is infantile.

    Few points:
    Your Nazi-worshipping line below:


    senseless partisan warfare in Belarus and Ukraine to provoke German retaliations
     
    ...conflicts directly with your later denouncing of the Slovak WWII state. Which is it? Is it good to 'resist', or is that just a 'provoking the Germans'?

    Your brief history of Czechoslovak communism is upside down, the silly imagining of fascist-to-communist stampede in Slovakia after WWII is simply not true, communists were substantially stronger in Czechia, all data shows it, the personnel shows it. I am not a fan of the WWII Slovak state, and my family fought against it in the 1944 uprising. But it is generally accepted that given the miserable alternatives in 1939, it was a necessary step in saving the nation. The alternative was very straightforward: an occupation by fascist Hungary. Everything you say about Slovakia in WWII can be also said about every single European country, from Belgium to Croatia, from Norway to Hungary. Nobody defends it.

    But I thought you were the Nazi sympathizer here, the Sudeten-Bandera defender. I guess, your opportunism has no limits, but it makes your points self-contradictory and incoherent. If Belorussians should had collaborated with the Nazis and not resist, why does it bother you that other did it in order to survive?

    fascist Hungary

    Hungary was not fascist. It had a parliament with social democrats in it until the German occupation in March 1944.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    Well, then Slovakia was also not 'fascist', it had a parliament with active socialist and liberal parties. We usually call the WWII state 'clerical': religious and socially conservative, but quite left-leaning in economics.

    In 1938 after Munich Hungary occupied a large chunk of southern Slovakia. In 1939 Germany gave Slovakia a choice: declare independence from Czechoslovakia as a German ally or be fully occupied by Hungary. Hungarian nationalism was extremely aggressive at that point (nem-nem-soha years) and would had led to a bloody retribution then and after WWII. We are all better off that Slovakia chose the less confrontational route.
    , @Mitleser
    SocDems in Hungarian parliament? Fascist Hungary confirmed.

    On Social Fascism

    “One may say without exaggeration that the most central task of our days (nay, perhaps even of our entire epoch) is to defeat social-democracy, the main factor of the international counter revolution.”- Clara Zetkin [Speech to the Fourth Comintern Congress, 1922]
     
    https://struggle-sessions.com/2018/09/18/on-social-fascism/
  231. @reiner Tor

    fascist Hungary
     
    Hungary was not fascist. It had a parliament with social democrats in it until the German occupation in March 1944.

    Well, then Slovakia was also not ‘fascist’, it had a parliament with active socialist and liberal parties. We usually call the WWII state ‘clerical’: religious and socially conservative, but quite left-leaning in economics.

    In 1938 after Munich Hungary occupied a large chunk of southern Slovakia. In 1939 Germany gave Slovakia a choice: declare independence from Czechoslovakia as a German ally or be fully occupied by Hungary. Hungarian nationalism was extremely aggressive at that point (nem-nem-soha years) and would had led to a bloody retribution then and after WWII. We are all better off that Slovakia chose the less confrontational route.

    • Replies: @awry

    In 1938 after Munich Hungary occupied a large chunk of southern Slovakia. In 1939 Germany gave Slovakia a choice: declare independence from Czechoslovakia as a German ally or be fully occupied by Hungary. Hungarian nationalism was extremely aggressive at that point (nem-nem-soha years) and would had led to a bloody retribution then and after WWII. We are all better off that Slovakia chose the less confrontational route.
     
    Most of that "large chunk" was over 80% Hungarian population then. It wasn't occupied but awarded to Hungary in the first Vienna Award by Germany and Italy (along with a small part that was awarded to Poland). There was the Slovak-Hungarian "Little War" when Hungary occupied a small strip of land on the easternmost edge of Slovakia (and before that also "Carpatho-Ukraine" which belonged to Czechoslovakia between the World Wars). Hungarian nationalism and irrendentism was high then, but there wasn't any bloody retrubution in the recovered lands except a few incidents in Transylvania against Romanians.
    The two Vienna Awards and the Slovak-Hungarian and Romanian-Hungarian borders drawn by them were the closest to "just borders" at that time, unfortunately they were adjucated by the (later) Axis Powers, so the Allies naturally rejected them. Since then forced (and voluntary) assimilation and resettlements (especially after the Benes decrees) changed the ethnic map (not to the favor of Hungarians).
  232. @reiner Tor

    fascist Hungary
     
    Hungary was not fascist. It had a parliament with social democrats in it until the German occupation in March 1944.

    SocDems in Hungarian parliament? Fascist Hungary confirmed.

    On Social Fascism

    “One may say without exaggeration that the most central task of our days (nay, perhaps even of our entire epoch) is to defeat social-democracy, the main factor of the international counter revolution.”- Clara Zetkin [Speech to the Fourth Comintern Congress, 1922]

    https://struggle-sessions.com/2018/09/18/on-social-fascism/

  233. UK may extradite Assange, as home secretary Sajid Javid has signed him over. That guy has enough credentials and suspicious background details to come across as groomed-for-this-spot by the USUK kuromakus … “At the age of 14 he went to see his father’s bank manager and arranged to borrow £500 to invest in shares, becoming a regular reader of the Financial Times” … oh yeah?!. As expected, Australia is not even a factor.

    This may well wake up the UK NPCs more than otherwise expected. All this time we have been told that there is no risk for Assange to be extradited to the Big Homeland because he’s just wanted on second-wave feminism rape charges in Swedo-Multiculturalia. Well, It’s one thing to uphold the illusion that your colony is somewhat independent but another entirely to beclown yourself in plain sight with a demonstration of the contrary.

    A judge will have to decide. Not holding my breath.

    Could put pressure on the Brexit plans and cause some de-Toryfication. After extradition, expect the crank organ of the Russian Collusion Circus to be played mercilessly at full speed.

  234. Well, at comment 235 or later, this will likely never be read, but I will try to post it the mext time you have an open thread if you don’t read it, Anatoly.

    I think it makes a very good point in general re. much HBD writing although I disagree with a few specifics, especially with women’s events (e.g. marathon, where Japanese and European women are still very competitive, at times dominant), and there is a very gond chamce of a Japanese man winming next year, several others. As a general point, though, I think that it is very good.

    http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=11319

    Also, whatever body controls skiing changed the rules of the ski-jump to end Japanese men’s period of dominance in the event. Wider and longer skis. Very cheap. That also has a HBD connection.

    I am neither him nor a personal friend, but it has been among my bookmarks for almost as long as I have been posting here.

    The only time I posted a link to his blog here before now, was to a hilarious essay where Fred Reed and Maureen Dowd exchange bodies (or exchanged personalites within bodies), mayhem ensues. It was very funny if one likes very dark humour, as I do at times.

    It had rolled off into the past at the time, I contacted him by e-mail to get the URL, he kindly sent it to me, so I have a good opinion of his character.

    The ‘lympics of now suck, both Ol and Para, as if the latter are anythhng, mainly people from very wealthy countries, or wealthy families, pretending … and let’s not forget Oscar
    Pistorius, shot his.gf while she was in the toilet, likely trying to work out how to escape.

    The pool of competitors is very shallow (as in women(s rugby and several other of the new events〉Oh, great, they cae hire a coach to train former speciliasts in throwing events, who are also able to run, to be trained for women’s Rugby.

    It is much the same as bobsled at the Winter `lympics, select hefty thrower women who have not reached the peak in throwing comps, select the one who is capable of moving fastest to launch tthe bobsleigh, she is launching it and jtjmping on.

    Tie IOC is a joke, they say `it has to be in one city`, but in reality, many of the venues are not even.i n Tokyo Prefecture, let alone Tokyo city.

    The local govt. areas within Tokyo that have the closest connectioo to my work, wanted to host the race-walking. It is generally flat, so suitable. I wondered how that bid went, so was checking on the `net, it turns out that both the 20 and 50 km events are to be held on out-and-back courses in front of the Imperial Palace. For the 50 km, they have to repeat the same span (shorter for the 20, is so repetive) many times.

    A more boring idea would be difficult to imagime.

  235. @Beckow
    Well, then Slovakia was also not 'fascist', it had a parliament with active socialist and liberal parties. We usually call the WWII state 'clerical': religious and socially conservative, but quite left-leaning in economics.

    In 1938 after Munich Hungary occupied a large chunk of southern Slovakia. In 1939 Germany gave Slovakia a choice: declare independence from Czechoslovakia as a German ally or be fully occupied by Hungary. Hungarian nationalism was extremely aggressive at that point (nem-nem-soha years) and would had led to a bloody retribution then and after WWII. We are all better off that Slovakia chose the less confrontational route.

    In 1938 after Munich Hungary occupied a large chunk of southern Slovakia. In 1939 Germany gave Slovakia a choice: declare independence from Czechoslovakia as a German ally or be fully occupied by Hungary. Hungarian nationalism was extremely aggressive at that point (nem-nem-soha years) and would had led to a bloody retribution then and after WWII. We are all better off that Slovakia chose the less confrontational route.

    Most of that “large chunk” was over 80% Hungarian population then. It wasn’t occupied but awarded to Hungary in the first Vienna Award by Germany and Italy (along with a small part that was awarded to Poland). There was the Slovak-Hungarian “Little War” when Hungary occupied a small strip of land on the easternmost edge of Slovakia (and before that also “Carpatho-Ukraine” which belonged to Czechoslovakia between the World Wars). Hungarian nationalism and irrendentism was high then, but there wasn’t any bloody retrubution in the recovered lands except a few incidents in Transylvania against Romanians.
    The two Vienna Awards and the Slovak-Hungarian and Romanian-Hungarian borders drawn by them were the closest to “just borders” at that time, unfortunately they were adjucated by the (later) Axis Powers, so the Allies naturally rejected them. Since then forced (and voluntary) assimilation and resettlements (especially after the Benes decrees) changed the ethnic map (not to the favor of Hungarians).

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