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Open Thread 73
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Apologies for the paucity in poasting the past couple of weeks. My laptop finally gave up the ghost and had to be sent to repairs before a replacement was ready, which caused lag in IRL work, which had to be made up when I acquired a workstation again. It’s also more difficult to start up again after taking a long (if inadvertent) break. Obviously, all this put a major crimp in my blogging activity. I suppose we’ll start with an Open Thread to get up to speed.

***

Featured

***

Russia

***

World

  • “No religion” has become most predominant US religion.
  • سليمان Sulaiman Gu: “A WeChat poll of Chinese users finds 60% of the 2,000+ respondents see the New Zealand mosque massacre as a revenge and “extremely sympathize” with the killer after reading his manifesto of terror. 中国人民微信发声:我们非常同情对穆斯林复仇的新西兰杀手
  • Caius Julius Caesar Mussolini is running for office in Italy on a nationalist platform.
  • Manufacturing wages in China are way above Latin America’s and converging on Portugal.

***

Science & Culture

  • gwern reviews Stalker (1979)
  • Smith, Cory J., Oscar Castanon, Khaled Said, Verena Volf, Parastoo Khoshakhlagh, Amanda Hornick, Raphael Ferreira, et al. 2019. “Enabling Large-Scale Genome Editing by Reducing DNA Nicking.bioRxiv.
    • To extend the frontier of genome editing and enable the radical redesign of mammalian genomes, we developed a set of dead-Cas9 base editor (dBE) variants that allow editing at tens of thousands of loci per cell by overcoming the cell death associated with DNA double-strand breaks (DSBs) and single-strand breaks (SSBs). We used a set of gRNAs targeting repetitive elements – ranging in target copy number from about 31 to 124,000 per cell. dBEs enabled survival after large-scale base editing, allowing targeted mutations at up to ~13,200 and ~2610 loci in 293T and human induced pluripotent stem cells (hiPSCs), respectively, three orders of magnitude greater than previously recorded. These dBEs can overcome current on-target mutation and toxicity barriers that prevent cell survival after large-scale genome engineering.
  • Khosravi, Pegah, Ehsan Kazemi, Qiansheng Zhan, Jonas E. Malmsten, Marco Toschi, Pantelis Zisimopoulos, Alexandros Sigaras, et al. 2019. “Deep Learning Enables Robust Assessment and Selection of Human Blastocysts after in Vitro Fertilization.Npj Digital Medicine 2 (1): 21.
    • Much better embryo selection with IVF through deep learning.
  • US population density 1790-2010
  • *Amerotriumphalism* Loyalka, Prashant, Ou Lydia Liu, Guirong Li, Igor Chirikov, Elena Kardanova, Lin Gu, Guangming Ling, et al. 2019. “Computer Science Skills across China, India, Russia, and the United States.
    • We find that seniors in the United States substantially outperform seniors in China, India, and Russia by 0.76–0.88 SDs and score comparably with seniors in elite institutions in these countries. Seniors in elite institutions in the United States further outperform seniors in elite institutions in China, India, and Russia by ∼0.85 SDs.
  • Richard Dawkins asks why not boost IQs.
  • Guillaume Durocher: The Hellenic Canon
  • Mollica Francis, and Piantadosi Steven T. n.d. “Humans Store about 1.5 Megabytes of Information during Language Acquisition.Royal Society Open Science 6 (3): 181393.

***

Humor & Powerful Takes

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  1. [MORE]

    5th Anniversary of the Russian “Occupation” of Crimea. Their power production went from 160MW to 2KW.

    2KW is pretty small. My gasoline powered portable generator puts out 6.5KW. Do I produce more than Crimea under Russian rule? I think it should be 2GW aka 2000MW.

    AK: Thx.

  2. Anonymous[415] • Disclaimer says:

    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Anatoly_Karlin

    – Karlin: At what point did you get embarrassed about your past with the alt-right and try to deny this using the term “alt-center”? Was it when you realised you looked like a complete moron and sheeple who just parroted mainstream alt-right/white nationalist claims? Now want to try to present yourself as more heterodox and individualist? lol

    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Alt-center

    “Anatoly Karlin: Russian alt-right anti-Semitic blogger at The Unz Review who once shared a platform with white supremacist Richard Spencer and said he agrees with 70% of the alt-right, including HBD. He now completely avoids the alt-right label, and considers himself an alt-centrist.”

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Hi Oliver D. Smith,

    So good of you to make an appearance. Let me introduce you to my readers:

    * https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Oliver_D._Smith

    * https://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/?page_id=7034

    Anyhow, you are a liar, as usual. I never identified myself with the Alt Right. I said that I agree with many of their positions. I do identify as a nationalist.

    That's first. Second. I was using the term Alt Left (though not strictly identifying with it either) as early as 2015. My position on that has been consistent.

    https://twitter.com/akarlin88/status/732540217106653184
    , @George Taylor

    and said he agrees with 70% of the alt-right, including HBD.
     
    Ahh the evil HBD, funny how science just keeps smacking us in the face with examples of HBD but no matter the truth, it's still the most evil of heresy to adherents of the egalitarian theology. The Latest: Evidence of New Human Species Found in Philippines
    Fossils unearthed in a limestone cavern part of a previously unknown human species that roamed the island about 50,000 years ago
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/evidence-of-new-human-species-found-in-philippines-11554915601
  3. @Anonymous
    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Anatoly_Karlin

    - Karlin: At what point did you get embarrassed about your past with the alt-right and try to deny this using the term "alt-center"? Was it when you realised you looked like a complete moron and sheeple who just parroted mainstream alt-right/white nationalist claims? Now want to try to present yourself as more heterodox and individualist? lol

    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Alt-center

    "Anatoly Karlin: Russian alt-right anti-Semitic blogger at The Unz Review who once shared a platform with white supremacist Richard Spencer and said he agrees with 70% of the alt-right, including HBD. He now completely avoids the alt-right label, and considers himself an alt-centrist."

    Hi Oliver D. Smith,

    So good of you to make an appearance. Let me introduce you to my readers:

    * https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Oliver_D._Smith

    * https://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/?page_id=7034

    Anyhow, you are a liar, as usual. I never identified myself with the Alt Right. I said that I agree with many of their positions. I do identify as a nationalist.

    That’s first. Second. I was using the term Alt Left (though not strictly identifying with it either) as early as 2015. My position on that has been consistent.

    • Agree: Daniel Chieh
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    More lies as usual. You're alt-right - all your crazy views are mainstream alt-right positions, but since that label has become rather toxic out of shame or embarrassment you now prefer the "alt-center" label. In 2017 you even posted you were introducing the alt-right to Russians:

    "My own modest aims are twofold. First, I want to help introduce the Alt Right to Russian nationalists, and vice versa."

    And that alt-right websites publish your articles:

    "Russia Insider has good relations with AltRight.com, and they reprint my articles semi-regularly (with my permission)."

    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Anatoly_Karlin#Alt_right

    So the claim "I never identified myself with the Alt Right" is demonstrably false and laughable.

  4. Excellent links–especially the article about Crimea. As I said before, the Crimea annexation was certainly against international law, but so was probably NATO’s military intervention in Kosovo back in 1999. If the latter can be viewed as being “illegal but legitimate,” then probably so can the former.

    BTW, as I said before, I am tempted to disagree with you that other regions of Novorossiya would have experienced as massive of a spike in support for Russian rule (in comparison to Crimea, of course) had Russia conquered and annexed them in 2014 just like it did with Crimea. You mention that in Crimea, support for joining Russia went up from around 40% to over 90% after the annexation–in other words, an increase of 1.4 standard deviations. By that logic, though, since support for joining Russia in all of Ukraine was 12% in February 2014, such support should increase by 1.4 standard deviations to around 59% after a Russian conquest of all of Ukraine in 2014. Personally, I would consider such a figure for all of Ukraine (on average, of course–with some regions being much higher while other regions are going to be much lower than the average) after a Russian conquest to be unrealistic. After all, Yanukovych only barely won in 2010 and I just don’t see “the Russian idea” as beating out Yanukovych by 10 points in Ukraine (on average, of course) if Russia would have conquered all of Ukraine in 2014.

    Personally, I think that a better way to try figuring out how much support there would have been in various parts of Novorossiya after a hypothetical Russian conquest and annexation of these territories in 2014 would have been to compare the percentages for the Party of Regions and/or the Communists in 2010 with those for the Opposition Bloc and/or the Communists in 2014–by oblast, of course. Then you could calculate the amount of standard deviations that “Russophile” sentiment fell by in each Ukrainian oblast between the 2010 and the 2014 Ukrainian parliamentary elections. Then, you could use these figures in reverse. In other words, use the relevant standard deviation data, but have the 2010 percentages increase by that amount of standard deviations as opposed to decrease by that amount of standard deviations. Once you will calculate this increase for each Ukrainian oblast and combine it with data from February 2014, you should figure out what percentage of people in each Ukrainian oblast would have supported a Russian annexation of their oblast after the fact.

    My proposed method appears to be a good one because Russophile voting sentiment (as measured by % of votes for the PoR/OB and/or Communists) did not fall evenly throughout all Ukrainian oblasts or even all Novorossiyan oblasts between 2010 and 2014. Thus, a more sophisticated and detailed calculation is necessary here.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Beckow

    ..Crimea annexation was certainly against international law, but so was probably NATO’s military intervention in Kosovo
     
    Why 'certainly' for Crimea, and 'probably' for Kosovo? Since Kosovo happened first, establishing a precedent for redrawing borders by force, and was violent - massive bombing of Serb infrastructure with over 1k civilians killed, we should reverse the qualifiers.

    It doesn't matter that much, we are generally in agreement, but it reminds of the verbal slippery slope in the West: words don't mean anything, it is all in the qualifiers, confusion, imprecision, in effect a lawyerly take-over of the language. It leads to chaos and eventually verbally promiscuous societies collapse into an overload of sophistry.

    That's how educated people can with a straight face for 2 years claim that 'Trump is probably an agent of Russia' without being called morons that they are. Words and concepts mean nothing to them, but if others don't point it out, we become accomplices.

  5. Wikipedia culture is leftist academic culture duplicated online. Many of the left-wing power users backing each other up are retired academics who can spend all day litigating against dissidents. Almost all are white. Since Wikipedia defers to media/academia sources, it automatically shifts left because the right controls neither of those institutions.

    Right wing attempts to create favorable wikis (Conservapedia, Metapedia, InfoGalactic) have failed because the right lacks social skills, can’t organize worth a damn, and simply aren’t as dedicated. Otherwise slandering your enemies by SEO is an excellent idea.

    Baidu Baike is trash compared to Wikipedia, but sometimes I’m grateful that it’s (loosely) monitored by the CCP and not allowed to turn into an complete equalist shitfest.

    Peter Frost has a habit of overreaching. I’m not delusional about every Chinese being nationalistic, but China’s not gonna take a large number of African immigrants.

    • Agree: Denis
    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    Wikipedia actually appears to be relatively fairly balanced in regards to the race and IQ debate, no? Indeed, I have even seen the SPLC previously complain about this:

    https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/03/12/wikipedia-wars-inside-fight-against-far-right-editors-vandals-and-sock-puppets

    If the SPLC is criticizing Wikipedia, then maybe Wikipedia is actually doing something right.
    , @Denis
    Yeah, I think Frost is way off the mark on that one. He's projecting a western issue onto China, namely, the fact that the leaders of western nations import millions of people from the four corners of the earth in a bid to fill apparent gaps in labour markets and combat declining consumption. It seems doubtful that Chinese leadership would make that particular mistake; they have a much greater capacity for long term planning than western policy makers do.
    , @Mikhail
    Wiki loses credibility in a number of instances, as evidenced by some of the folks they consider worthy of a bio.
    , @Anonymous
    HAHAHA.

    Is that the same Peter Frost nutter conspiracy theorist who claims self-identified white people are going to go extinct or be replaced, so he says they should vote for far-right/right wing populist parties? The so-called "Great replacement" conspiracy theory. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Peter_Frost#Politics

    Loons.
    , @Anonymous
    Frost is projecting and showing extreme Shadenfreaud here.

    What he is really saying is that the West was destroyed by immigration from 3rd world countries. So will China please do the same thing so I can feel better about myself?

    I have no doubt China will see a large influx of Africans, the whole world will with Africa's population boom. But to say that China will be swamped out by blacks is ridiculous.
  6. @Jason Liu
    Wikipedia culture is leftist academic culture duplicated online. Many of the left-wing power users backing each other up are retired academics who can spend all day litigating against dissidents. Almost all are white. Since Wikipedia defers to media/academia sources, it automatically shifts left because the right controls neither of those institutions.

    Right wing attempts to create favorable wikis (Conservapedia, Metapedia, InfoGalactic) have failed because the right lacks social skills, can't organize worth a damn, and simply aren't as dedicated. Otherwise slandering your enemies by SEO is an excellent idea.

    Baidu Baike is trash compared to Wikipedia, but sometimes I'm grateful that it's (loosely) monitored by the CCP and not allowed to turn into an complete equalist shitfest.

    Peter Frost has a habit of overreaching. I'm not delusional about every Chinese being nationalistic, but China's not gonna take a large number of African immigrants.

    Wikipedia actually appears to be relatively fairly balanced in regards to the race and IQ debate, no? Indeed, I have even seen the SPLC previously complain about this:

    https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/03/12/wikipedia-wars-inside-fight-against-far-right-editors-vandals-and-sock-puppets

    If the SPLC is criticizing Wikipedia, then maybe Wikipedia is actually doing something right.

    • Replies: @Jason Liu
    That's because the few hereditarians cited on that page (Rushton, Jensen, Lynn) are so notable that leftist radicals simply could not remove their mention, even with an arsenal of vague Wikipedia 'guidelines' at their disposal. Imagine how much better things would be if the right controlled academia.
  7. @Mr. XYZ
    Wikipedia actually appears to be relatively fairly balanced in regards to the race and IQ debate, no? Indeed, I have even seen the SPLC previously complain about this:

    https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/03/12/wikipedia-wars-inside-fight-against-far-right-editors-vandals-and-sock-puppets

    If the SPLC is criticizing Wikipedia, then maybe Wikipedia is actually doing something right.

    That’s because the few hereditarians cited on that page (Rushton, Jensen, Lynn) are so notable that leftist radicals simply could not remove their mention, even with an arsenal of vague Wikipedia ‘guidelines’ at their disposal. Imagine how much better things would be if the right controlled academia.

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    I certainly agree that a more balanced academia would be better.
    , @Anonymous
    I've been asking this same question to HBDers for over 5 years:

    Even if your theory is scientific (it isn't, but pseudoscience), what use does it have? None.

    You cannot implement any HBD-based policy or law; secondly no one will vote on this issue, thirdly, aside from crackpots and basement dwellers no one has even heard of "HBD". It's a internet movement for weirdos like Anatoly Karlin. If you walked into your work office discussing this sort of thing you would get stared at. It's so divorced from everyday life and normality. Try getting some fresh air dude.

    Everything you people type on this website is regarded as literally insane to normal people. You cannot sell HBD to the ordinary public. So you losers are confined to the internet typing this HBD garbage on UNZ. lol

  8. Anonymous[151] • Disclaimer says:

    Regarding your travel post on Twitter:

    I would probably go to Berlin just for its cultural-historical significance, but having just visited Budapest I can tell you it’s a lovely place. Dirtier and shabbier than most Western European cities of course, but a fascinating place, quirky and eccentric, very affordable, and with the best quality of food of any country I have visited (including, inter alia, France, Italy and Japan). People told me the place was rackety, too many gypsies on the streets running scams…maybe I was just incredibly lucky but I saw pretty much 0 of this the whole trip. Overall highly recommended (watch out for the House of Terror though; a few comments in the guestbook were from your countrymen criticizing the Russophobia of the exhibit haha).

    • Replies: @AP
    Will be there in June. Is House of Terror worth it? I want to show the kids the horrors of communism.

    The problem with Berlin is that it isn't really all that beautiful. A big city with a lot going on.

    , @Matra
    Berlin is great but only if you have lots of time. If not expect to spend much of what time you do have on public transportation going to and from the places you want to visit rather than actually at such places. If going for just a few days it would be better to just pick one district to explore and forget about the rest of the city.
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    I am pretty certain its going to be Prague now.

    I can't be bothered doing Berlin now, while I'll do Budapest later this summer (I get to stay free 1-2 weeks in Vienna at a friends vacant apartment, Budapest - and Bratislava, maybe I could meet up with Beckow too - is 2 hours away by bus I hear).
  9. @Jason Liu
    Wikipedia culture is leftist academic culture duplicated online. Many of the left-wing power users backing each other up are retired academics who can spend all day litigating against dissidents. Almost all are white. Since Wikipedia defers to media/academia sources, it automatically shifts left because the right controls neither of those institutions.

    Right wing attempts to create favorable wikis (Conservapedia, Metapedia, InfoGalactic) have failed because the right lacks social skills, can't organize worth a damn, and simply aren't as dedicated. Otherwise slandering your enemies by SEO is an excellent idea.

    Baidu Baike is trash compared to Wikipedia, but sometimes I'm grateful that it's (loosely) monitored by the CCP and not allowed to turn into an complete equalist shitfest.

    Peter Frost has a habit of overreaching. I'm not delusional about every Chinese being nationalistic, but China's not gonna take a large number of African immigrants.

    Yeah, I think Frost is way off the mark on that one. He’s projecting a western issue onto China, namely, the fact that the leaders of western nations import millions of people from the four corners of the earth in a bid to fill apparent gaps in labour markets and combat declining consumption. It seems doubtful that Chinese leadership would make that particular mistake; they have a much greater capacity for long term planning than western policy makers do.

    • Replies: @216
    Will the gender imbalance lead to an importation of brides?

    I recall hearing about this in South Korea, where hypergamous Korean women refuse to marry rural men. Presumably this could occur in China on a much larger scale.
    , @Mitleser

    Yeah, I think Frost is way off the mark on that one.
     

    Economically, China is doing better than what many skeptics have been predicting. That's what bothers me. How will the Chinese business community react when they have to start bidding up the price of labor? Will they react like our own business leaders?
     
    http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2019/03/autumn-in-china.html?showComment=1553735263656#c5507685063672774206

    Is he wrong?
    The Jap business responded to the labor shortage in their country by pushing for more immigration.
    , @Alexander Turok
    "they have a much greater capacity for long term planning than western policy makers do."

    I doubt it. If they were forward-looking, they would have ditched the one child policy a long time ago.
  10. While the subject of HBD is never directly broached, an interesting article at Naked Capitalism compares income inequality among immigrant groups in America with that of their co-ethnics back in Europe, and finds startling parallels:

    https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2019/03/brave-old-world-immigration-inequality-and-intergenerational-mobility-in-the-us.html

  11. @Jason Liu
    That's because the few hereditarians cited on that page (Rushton, Jensen, Lynn) are so notable that leftist radicals simply could not remove their mention, even with an arsenal of vague Wikipedia 'guidelines' at their disposal. Imagine how much better things would be if the right controlled academia.

    I certainly agree that a more balanced academia would be better.

    • Replies: @216
    'more balanced' is a dramatic understatement. <5% of US academics are right-wing, when around 40% of the voters identify as "conservative". Even among Gen Y/Z, "conservative" still amounts to 25% of the voters.

    "Representation matters" so the SJW says.

    The reality is that the Right needs massive affirmative action in the universities and the media.
  12. Anatoly, when are you going to find a nice Chinese woman to settle down with to make a brood of high-IQed hapas.

    • LOL: Denis
  13. China may introduce “1+ Child Policy”. Parents who have less than 2 kids would have lower “social credit scores”.
    Connecting the Social Credit System with fertility problems may work… I think it’s the only way.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    It actually might be better for Chinas population to slow down being that automation will make so many people redundant.

    Going from 1.3 million to even half that population would still be a lot of people and it might make their society more stable.

    Meanwhile in the west....
  14. @Denis
    Yeah, I think Frost is way off the mark on that one. He's projecting a western issue onto China, namely, the fact that the leaders of western nations import millions of people from the four corners of the earth in a bid to fill apparent gaps in labour markets and combat declining consumption. It seems doubtful that Chinese leadership would make that particular mistake; they have a much greater capacity for long term planning than western policy makers do.

    Will the gender imbalance lead to an importation of brides?

    I recall hearing about this in South Korea, where hypergamous Korean women refuse to marry rural men. Presumably this could occur in China on a much larger scale.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Marrying a foreigner could lead to an even lower social credit score.
  15. @Mr. XYZ
    I certainly agree that a more balanced academia would be better.

    ‘more balanced’ is a dramatic understatement. <5% of US academics are right-wing, when around 40% of the voters identify as "conservative". Even among Gen Y/Z, "conservative" still amounts to 25% of the voters.

    "Representation matters" so the SJW says.

    The reality is that the Right needs massive affirmative action in the universities and the media.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    The left is anti-scientific.

    I would actually banish adherents of pseudo-scientific theories (like the equality of races) from academia altogether, except maybe if it has absolutely zero relevance to their fields. So maybe a physicist who believes in Blank Slate might stay on. But sociologists or economists who don't understand HBD should be sacked, because these fields absolutely require an understanding of HBD. Without it, nothing makes sense in these fields.

    You cannot have "balance" with 50% astrology-believers and 50% astrology-deniers in academia, you need basically 0% astrology-believers and 100% astrology-deniers. Similar with blank slatism. You need to get rid of it, not create some "balance" with 50% HBD adherents and 50% blank slatists.
  16. @216
    Will the gender imbalance lead to an importation of brides?

    I recall hearing about this in South Korea, where hypergamous Korean women refuse to marry rural men. Presumably this could occur in China on a much larger scale.

    Marrying a foreigner could lead to an even lower social credit score.

    • LOL: 216
  17. the results from the paper on CS skills seem highly off. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that students in the US are better trained at taking the “Major Field Test” suite of assessments designed by Educational Testing Service (ETS), a US non profit presumably based on US curricula and methodologies?

    Take for comparison the International Olympiad in Informatics or International Collegiate Programming Contest via wiki

    IOI>
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Olympiad_in_Informatics#All_Time_Medal_Table

    gold silv bron total
    1 China (CHN) 81 26 12 119
    2 Russia (RUS) 58 38 12 108
    3 United States (USA) 49 34 16 99
    4 Poland (POL) 40 39 30 109
    5 South Korea (KOR) 39 38 26 103
    6 Romania (ROM) 30 48 29 107
    7 Bulgaria (BUL) 26 41 37 104
    8 Slovakia (SVK) 24 37 32 93
    9 Iran (IRN) 23 54 23 100
    10 Japan (JPN) 22 21 10 53
    Totals (10 nations) 392 376 227 995

    ICPC>
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Collegiate_Programming_Contest#Winners

    Winner Country Most Recent Win No.of Yrs Participated
    17 United States 1997 36
    14 Russia 2019
    4 China 2011
    2 Poland 2007
    2 Canada 1999
    1 Czech Republic 1998
    1 Germany 1995
    1 Australia 1992
    1 New Zealand 1990

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Yes, I know, Russia (and EE) do much better on these international programming competitions.

    OTOH, as I have pointed out before, there's presumably more of an incentive for them to do very well in them (e.g. chance of an offer from Google).
  18. @216
    'more balanced' is a dramatic understatement. <5% of US academics are right-wing, when around 40% of the voters identify as "conservative". Even among Gen Y/Z, "conservative" still amounts to 25% of the voters.

    "Representation matters" so the SJW says.

    The reality is that the Right needs massive affirmative action in the universities and the media.

    The left is anti-scientific.

    I would actually banish adherents of pseudo-scientific theories (like the equality of races) from academia altogether, except maybe if it has absolutely zero relevance to their fields. So maybe a physicist who believes in Blank Slate might stay on. But sociologists or economists who don’t understand HBD should be sacked, because these fields absolutely require an understanding of HBD. Without it, nothing makes sense in these fields.

    You cannot have “balance” with 50% astrology-believers and 50% astrology-deniers in academia, you need basically 0% astrology-believers and 100% astrology-deniers. Similar with blank slatism. You need to get rid of it, not create some “balance” with 50% HBD adherents and 50% blank slatists.

    • Agree: Mr. XYZ
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I'm pretty reasonable and open to compromise myself, but I cannot see how HBD-deniers could be allowed in academia. Even students shouldn't be allowed to pass if they make it clear they don't understand HBD. (Understanding it is believing in it, obviously.) Again, the same exceptions apply, it's not relevant to physics, but it's relevant to sociology etc.

    As long as this is not achieved, academia will stay a cancer intent on destroying everything right and beautiful. So this is not really negotiable, because any compromise here would be absolutely insane and unreasonable.
    , @216
    To me this speaks to a fundamental problem in the academic structure, that of relying upon peer review which is arguably worse than tenure.

    We don't let the military select its own generals, every flag officer must be confirmed by the Senate. But almost no academic appointments are required to be confirmed by any legislature other than the larely irrelevant "board of directors" which are less powerful than their corporate counterparts.

    So we have a "state-within-a-state" that perfoms gatekeeping functions, with the most powerful universities under minimal government control as they are private Ivies.
    , @Anonymous
    "HBD" is pseudoscience like creationism. Try reading a science book.

    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Racialism

  19. @reiner Tor
    The left is anti-scientific.

    I would actually banish adherents of pseudo-scientific theories (like the equality of races) from academia altogether, except maybe if it has absolutely zero relevance to their fields. So maybe a physicist who believes in Blank Slate might stay on. But sociologists or economists who don't understand HBD should be sacked, because these fields absolutely require an understanding of HBD. Without it, nothing makes sense in these fields.

    You cannot have "balance" with 50% astrology-believers and 50% astrology-deniers in academia, you need basically 0% astrology-believers and 100% astrology-deniers. Similar with blank slatism. You need to get rid of it, not create some "balance" with 50% HBD adherents and 50% blank slatists.

    I’m pretty reasonable and open to compromise myself, but I cannot see how HBD-deniers could be allowed in academia. Even students shouldn’t be allowed to pass if they make it clear they don’t understand HBD. (Understanding it is believing in it, obviously.) Again, the same exceptions apply, it’s not relevant to physics, but it’s relevant to sociology etc.

    As long as this is not achieved, academia will stay a cancer intent on destroying everything right and beautiful. So this is not really negotiable, because any compromise here would be absolutely insane and unreasonable.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @gate666
    yet you have no problem with global warming deniers.
  20. @reiner Tor
    The left is anti-scientific.

    I would actually banish adherents of pseudo-scientific theories (like the equality of races) from academia altogether, except maybe if it has absolutely zero relevance to their fields. So maybe a physicist who believes in Blank Slate might stay on. But sociologists or economists who don't understand HBD should be sacked, because these fields absolutely require an understanding of HBD. Without it, nothing makes sense in these fields.

    You cannot have "balance" with 50% astrology-believers and 50% astrology-deniers in academia, you need basically 0% astrology-believers and 100% astrology-deniers. Similar with blank slatism. You need to get rid of it, not create some "balance" with 50% HBD adherents and 50% blank slatists.

    To me this speaks to a fundamental problem in the academic structure, that of relying upon peer review which is arguably worse than tenure.

    We don’t let the military select its own generals, every flag officer must be confirmed by the Senate. But almost no academic appointments are required to be confirmed by any legislature other than the larely irrelevant “board of directors” which are less powerful than their corporate counterparts.

    So we have a “state-within-a-state” that perfoms gatekeeping functions, with the most powerful universities under minimal government control as they are private Ivies.

  21. @Denis
    Yeah, I think Frost is way off the mark on that one. He's projecting a western issue onto China, namely, the fact that the leaders of western nations import millions of people from the four corners of the earth in a bid to fill apparent gaps in labour markets and combat declining consumption. It seems doubtful that Chinese leadership would make that particular mistake; they have a much greater capacity for long term planning than western policy makers do.

    Yeah, I think Frost is way off the mark on that one.

    Economically, China is doing better than what many skeptics have been predicting. That’s what bothers me. How will the Chinese business community react when they have to start bidding up the price of labor? Will they react like our own business leaders?

    http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2019/03/autumn-in-china.html?showComment=1553735263656#c5507685063672774206

    Is he wrong?
    The Jap business responded to the labor shortage in their country by pushing for more immigration.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Chinese politicians have power over business Japanese politicians don't. So it's a question if Chinese business will be strong enough to push for open borders. If yes, it's an argument against dictatorship: what use is a dictatorship which cannot even stand up to normal lobbies? If not, then it's an argument for dictatorship: dictatorship could stand up to the business lobbies and support the genetic interests of the people while democracy could not.
    , @Anonymous
    Japan is heavily "guided" by the west.

    China not so much.
  22. @reiner Tor
    I'm pretty reasonable and open to compromise myself, but I cannot see how HBD-deniers could be allowed in academia. Even students shouldn't be allowed to pass if they make it clear they don't understand HBD. (Understanding it is believing in it, obviously.) Again, the same exceptions apply, it's not relevant to physics, but it's relevant to sociology etc.

    As long as this is not achieved, academia will stay a cancer intent on destroying everything right and beautiful. So this is not really negotiable, because any compromise here would be absolutely insane and unreasonable.

    yet you have no problem with global warming deniers.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Did I even mention them, like, ever? I cannot remember.

    Is there a problem of the majority of academia denying anthropogenic global warming? (I guess that's what you mean by "global warming deniers.")

    So how is it an analogy?

    I don't want to get into a discussion about climate change. It's absolutely not pertinent to the topic at hand, and I know very little about it. It's a red herring.
    , @LondonBob
    Can't understand why people don't believe all the climate hysteria, all their shrill claims over the past thirty years have such a great track record.

    https://www.apnews.com/bd45c372caf118ec99964ea547880cd0
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    Projection.

    Incidentally, not many people on my blog are AGW deniers. We are a cut or three above Breitbart.

    Moreover, people do not generally get fired for denying AGW. They do for espousing HBD realism.
  23. Anonymous[415] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    Hi Oliver D. Smith,

    So good of you to make an appearance. Let me introduce you to my readers:

    * https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Oliver_D._Smith

    * https://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/?page_id=7034

    Anyhow, you are a liar, as usual. I never identified myself with the Alt Right. I said that I agree with many of their positions. I do identify as a nationalist.

    That's first. Second. I was using the term Alt Left (though not strictly identifying with it either) as early as 2015. My position on that has been consistent.

    https://twitter.com/akarlin88/status/732540217106653184

    More lies as usual. You’re alt-right – all your crazy views are mainstream alt-right positions, but since that label has become rather toxic out of shame or embarrassment you now prefer the “alt-center” label. In 2017 you even posted you were introducing the alt-right to Russians:

    “My own modest aims are twofold. First, I want to help introduce the Alt Right to Russian nationalists, and vice versa.”

    And that alt-right websites publish your articles:

    “Russia Insider has good relations with AltRight.com, and they reprint my articles semi-regularly (with my permission).”

    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Anatoly_Karlin#Alt_right

    So the claim “I never identified myself with the Alt Right” is demonstrably false and laughable.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    I explicitly denied being Alt Right as early as 2016 you complete tosser.
  24. @Anonymous
    Regarding your travel post on Twitter:

    I would probably go to Berlin just for its cultural-historical significance, but having just visited Budapest I can tell you it's a lovely place. Dirtier and shabbier than most Western European cities of course, but a fascinating place, quirky and eccentric, very affordable, and with the best quality of food of any country I have visited (including, inter alia, France, Italy and Japan). People told me the place was rackety, too many gypsies on the streets running scams...maybe I was just incredibly lucky but I saw pretty much 0 of this the whole trip. Overall highly recommended (watch out for the House of Terror though; a few comments in the guestbook were from your countrymen criticizing the Russophobia of the exhibit haha).

    Will be there in June. Is House of Terror worth it? I want to show the kids the horrors of communism.

    The problem with Berlin is that it isn’t really all that beautiful. A big city with a lot going on.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    Is House of Terror worth it?
     
    I was there around 2003. It took maybe a couple hours to go through it, so it isn't very big. Its view of history is not very accurate, but I think they don't contain explicitly false statements, only the implications are sometimes off a bit.

    The building itself is symbolic because after 1937 it was the headquarters of the Arrow Cross Party (it's often dubbed "the Hungarian Nazi party," but actually it only represented a "socialist" and populist wing of the far right, with no connections to the real corridors of power until in October 1944 the Germans helped them to power as a last, desperate measure to keep Hungary on their side in the war), and after the coup against Horthy (when he tried to make a separate peace on October 15, 1944) its cellars became a kind of prison of lawless Arrow Cross militias. Even during the siege of Budapest (while the city was encircled), until in January 1945 the Red Army captured it. The Arrow Cross leader, Szálasi dubbed it the "House of Loyalty."

    In 1945, the building didn't suffer much destruction, had a number of suitable offices, still had its cellars which could be used as a prison (though those would be expanded later to include most of the cellars of neighboring buildings as well...), and as a former Arrow Cross Party building, it was administratively easy to seize it. Besides such practical considerations, the (Jewish) leader of the new secret police specifically asked for this building for symbolic reasons, too. So the new Political Department of the new "democratic" police (already under communist party command from the beginning) set up its headquarters there.

    So the first half of the museum deals with Nazi atrocities (mostly in Hungary), but it's not very proportional in a sense, as most of it deals with the atrocities committed by after October 15, 1944, while most people killed by the Nazis and their collaborators were killed between April and early July 1944: these were the Jews deported to Auschwitz, but this is only mentioned in passing, at least that was the case in 2003. Anyway, the museum is to a large extent about the building (but it's also not spelled out, so they deal with lots of stuff which happened outside or unconnected to the building), so maybe that's not a problem, except if you want to learn history from it, and don't pay attention to the fine details.

    Then there's a room called "the changing of clothes," which shows an Arrow Cross militia uniform and then a communist political police uniform. It implies that many Arrow Cross militia members simply went over to the communist political police, but nothing could be further from the truth: the communist secret policemen were mostly Jewish, and even those who weren't, had nothing to do with the Arrow Cross or the pro-Nazi collaborators. (There were very few such cases, and even these people were later arrested.)

    One criticism against it was that while it glosses over (or just mentions in passing) most Nazi atrocities (in Hungary or elsewhere) before October 15, 1944 (on the grounds that those had nothing to do with the building itself), it dwells in details of communist oppression after the revolution in 1956 and similar things, which also had nothing to do with the building. (The political police, then called "State Protection Authority," collapsed during the revolution, and its new incarnations didn't use the building anymore, because they wanted to avoid being associated with the bad policies during the "cult of personality" in the early 1950s.) But maybe they have changed it since 2003.

    Anyway, I don't think it's worth to travel to Budapest for it, but if you're there for a week, then it's definitely worth visiting.
    , @Matra
    I visited in April 2010 so it may have improved since then.

    There was virtually no English so you needed to pick up pieces of A4 (7 1/2 x 11) paper with English notes at each stop but often there were none left. They allowed in too many people including hundreds of schoolchildren and the staff members hate hate hate both their jobs and the foreign visitors. For history buffs it is still worth visiting but if going in more tourist-friendly June I'd want to be there right when it opens in the morning as that's probably the only way to avoid the overcrowding.
    , @anonymous coward

    I want to show the kids the horrors of communism.
     
    Show them the clusterfuck that is the "nation" of Ukraine. That would be horror enough.
    , @Anonymous
    I would recommend it, yeah. It has a lurid, immersive quality and an ambience that is quite unique, like if you took a guy who designs Haunted Houses and tasked him with building a museum. Matra's comment about having to pick up a piece of paper in each room to read the English explanation is still the case (I think there may be an audio guide but when I was there they ran out); I was carrying a big sheaf of papers by the end of it. Also it was kind of crowded but not too excessive imo. I defer to reiner Tor on the historical accuracy.

    Budapest has a lot of quirky attractions: Hospital in the Rock, for example, is definitely worth checking out imo. I also wanted to go on the Children's Railroad but I waited until the last day of my trip and it ended up being closed. The Capital Circus is different but very cool. It all kind of fits with the slightly eccentric nature of the country imo.
  25. @reiner Tor
    The left is anti-scientific.

    I would actually banish adherents of pseudo-scientific theories (like the equality of races) from academia altogether, except maybe if it has absolutely zero relevance to their fields. So maybe a physicist who believes in Blank Slate might stay on. But sociologists or economists who don't understand HBD should be sacked, because these fields absolutely require an understanding of HBD. Without it, nothing makes sense in these fields.

    You cannot have "balance" with 50% astrology-believers and 50% astrology-deniers in academia, you need basically 0% astrology-believers and 100% astrology-deniers. Similar with blank slatism. You need to get rid of it, not create some "balance" with 50% HBD adherents and 50% blank slatists.

    “HBD” is pseudoscience like creationism. Try reading a science book.

    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Racialism

    • LOL: DFH
    • Replies: @AP
    I'm not familiar enough with "HBD" to comment on it, but actually Blank Slatism is the non-scientific creationism:

    https://quillette.com/2018/12/11/progressive-creationism-a-review-of-a-dangerous-idea/
    , @Thorfinnsson
    HBD-denialism has much more in common with Creationism.

    Evolution stopped 50,000 years ago, and there are no evolved differences in the brain.

    Right.

    Actually the Biblical model of Creation denies a lot less of observable reality than liberal creationism does.
    , @Daniel Chieh
    Thanks, good to know that all differences in human populations stopped at the neck. They clearly didn't stop elsewhere:

    Ethnicity-Related Skeletal Muscle Differences Across the Lifespan
  26. @Mitleser

    Yeah, I think Frost is way off the mark on that one.
     

    Economically, China is doing better than what many skeptics have been predicting. That's what bothers me. How will the Chinese business community react when they have to start bidding up the price of labor? Will they react like our own business leaders?
     
    http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2019/03/autumn-in-china.html?showComment=1553735263656#c5507685063672774206

    Is he wrong?
    The Jap business responded to the labor shortage in their country by pushing for more immigration.

    Chinese politicians have power over business Japanese politicians don’t. So it’s a question if Chinese business will be strong enough to push for open borders. If yes, it’s an argument against dictatorship: what use is a dictatorship which cannot even stand up to normal lobbies? If not, then it’s an argument for dictatorship: dictatorship could stand up to the business lobbies and support the genetic interests of the people while democracy could not.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Well, ultimately "genetic interests" alone probably won't be enough for politicians; the cui bono principle applies. A non-elected government derives less benefit from importing new voters for obvious reasons, and it reduces the issues of ethnic strife(which complicates governance). That said, wage pressures will probably cause some changes, because the alternative will be mass outsourcing to neighboring countries and loss of local employment.

    Its possible that subsidies and automation will alter this, but that's still yet to be seen.
  27. @gate666
    yet you have no problem with global warming deniers.

    Did I even mention them, like, ever? I cannot remember.

    Is there a problem of the majority of academia denying anthropogenic global warming? (I guess that’s what you mean by “global warming deniers.”)

    So how is it an analogy?

    I don’t want to get into a discussion about climate change. It’s absolutely not pertinent to the topic at hand, and I know very little about it. It’s a red herring.

  28. Media Review

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2019/04/10/rebuking-zakaria-and-goading-trump-the-right-way.html

    Providing top quality analysis on a range of key foreign policy, historical and media issues.

    **** Bershidsky.

  29. @Jason Liu
    Wikipedia culture is leftist academic culture duplicated online. Many of the left-wing power users backing each other up are retired academics who can spend all day litigating against dissidents. Almost all are white. Since Wikipedia defers to media/academia sources, it automatically shifts left because the right controls neither of those institutions.

    Right wing attempts to create favorable wikis (Conservapedia, Metapedia, InfoGalactic) have failed because the right lacks social skills, can't organize worth a damn, and simply aren't as dedicated. Otherwise slandering your enemies by SEO is an excellent idea.

    Baidu Baike is trash compared to Wikipedia, but sometimes I'm grateful that it's (loosely) monitored by the CCP and not allowed to turn into an complete equalist shitfest.

    Peter Frost has a habit of overreaching. I'm not delusional about every Chinese being nationalistic, but China's not gonna take a large number of African immigrants.

    Wiki loses credibility in a number of instances, as evidenced by some of the folks they consider worthy of a bio.

  30. Anonymous[415] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jason Liu
    That's because the few hereditarians cited on that page (Rushton, Jensen, Lynn) are so notable that leftist radicals simply could not remove their mention, even with an arsenal of vague Wikipedia 'guidelines' at their disposal. Imagine how much better things would be if the right controlled academia.

    I’ve been asking this same question to HBDers for over 5 years:

    Even if your theory is scientific (it isn’t, but pseudoscience), what use does it have? None.

    You cannot implement any HBD-based policy or law; secondly no one will vote on this issue, thirdly, aside from crackpots and basement dwellers no one has even heard of “HBD”. It’s a internet movement for weirdos like Anatoly Karlin. If you walked into your work office discussing this sort of thing you would get stared at. It’s so divorced from everyday life and normality. Try getting some fresh air dude.

    Everything you people type on this website is regarded as literally insane to normal people. You cannot sell HBD to the ordinary public. So you losers are confined to the internet typing this HBD garbage on UNZ. lol

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    You're surely joking, right? After all, HBD-awareness could certainly result in better policies in certain fields. For instance, in regards to affirmative action and immigration. Also, in regards to criminal justice (where the focus should be on combating the effects of bad genes as opposed to trying to reshape violent criminals).
    , @Hippopotamusdrome


    losers are confined to the internet typing this HBD garbage on UNZ

     

    Says the guy who read this thread on UNZ and typed in a comment. Thank you for your input Anonymous[415].
  31. America’s rapid Europeanization is a terrible, tragic thing that I’ve witnessed firsthand as the invasion of monocultural fakeness spreads its way from the centers of culture and capital into the heartland of the country.

    Within the last 20 years, the change has been absolutely dramatic. There are still pockets of red-blooded Americans, but by gosh, it gets thinner every year. The bald eagle is literally far less endangered than the independent American farmer.

    Le’t’s have a laugh, though. The TV show ‘King of the Hill’ made fun of this dynamic, of the “heritage American” awash in a sea of Europeanization, with this amusing and accurate parody of a stereotypical Texan.

    Rest in peace, stereotypical Texan

    • Agree: AquariusAnon
  32. Here in the states, the brightest males and prettiest [white] females usually leave their hometowns for the centers of capital and [pop] culture – e.g. the East Coast urban area, etc, etc.

    The average 1930 valedictorian of DuBois, PA; Clarksville, TN; Mason City, IA; or so forth, was more likely to stay at home than leave. Today, they GO.

    So in addition to the general decline of femininity in America, we have a dramatic concentration of the best in a few areas to the detriment of the great elsewhere known as Flyover Country.

    TL;DR: There are a lot of non-Americans here in Karlin’s threads. I am genuinely curious if this phenomenon – of the brightest males and prettiest females being more and more dramatically concentrated in the centers – is more exaggerated in America than it is elsewhere.

    And, yes, I know stats would be helpful, but I don’t have any.

    • Replies: @Epigon
    It’s widespread even in Balkan shitholes.
    It’s a natural thing - there is far more going on in major urban centres - more job opportunities and better pay, better social and nightlife, more cool people, more clientelle for aspiring rural Instagram whores.
    Self-actualization.

    Thank you, Hollywood propaganda and social media.
    , @Dmitry
    This description of America internal migration, sounds identical as Russia - but the internal migration is probably more extreme in Russia as a result of the economic differences. and uneven distribution of job and spending.

    Your description of young women going to the East coast of America, is also funny like Russia - it's famous that young and more attractive women are migrating to Moscow.

    However, perhaps unlike America, it's not just rural to urban migration. There's also a lot of migration from less fashionable cities and regional capital, to cities like Moscow and Petersburg.

    On the other hand, migrating abroad, it seems it might be more men than women overall (perhaps because external emigration requires certain types of visa). However, there isn't any accurate information on external migration.
    -

    Russian/American pattern of constant internal migration to the largest cities, is not the same in every country though. For example, in the UK, there is a lot of migration of young labour force into London from North cities. At the same time London is apparently also sending richer people, from their 30s, outwards to the South East corner of the island.

    https://i.imgur.com/exUU7GF.png

    , @AquariusAnon
    Add to that formerly under-the-radar mid-sized cities in flyover country that served as regional business hub for the state, such as Columbus, OH and Nashville, TN being the 2 most egregrious examples I can think of, have become "it" cities where people all over the US are currently flocking to (and this will be followed by immigrants soon, perhaps next decade). Of course, instead of assimilating into the existing cultures and being considerate of the reasons why they were relatively nice regional cities, they are displacing the former highly regional somewhat old-money cultures into generic bugmen monoculture based out of the East and West coasts.

    Likewise, the large cities in Texas have not an ounce of Texas culture in them. The only people with Texas accents are 50+ years old born/raised in a small town. Cities like Dallas, Houston, and Austin might as well be on the coast nowadays.

    Regional culture in the US is really becoming endangered. Its very difficult to find anyone under the age of 30 with a southern accent in major, or even regional, Southern cities anymore.
  33. @Anonymous
    "HBD" is pseudoscience like creationism. Try reading a science book.

    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Racialism

    I’m not familiar enough with “HBD” to comment on it, but actually Blank Slatism is the non-scientific creationism:

    https://quillette.com/2018/12/11/progressive-creationism-a-review-of-a-dangerous-idea/

    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    "Blank slatism" is a straw man invented by the alt-right.
    , @Mr. XYZ
    HBD stands for human biodiversity.
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    I can't believe you've been commenting on this website for years and are not familiar enough with HBD to comment it.

    Steve Sailer invented the term for christsakes! :)
  34. @AP
    Will be there in June. Is House of Terror worth it? I want to show the kids the horrors of communism.

    The problem with Berlin is that it isn't really all that beautiful. A big city with a lot going on.

    Is House of Terror worth it?

    I was there around 2003. It took maybe a couple hours to go through it, so it isn’t very big. Its view of history is not very accurate, but I think they don’t contain explicitly false statements, only the implications are sometimes off a bit.

    The building itself is symbolic because after 1937 it was the headquarters of the Arrow Cross Party (it’s often dubbed “the Hungarian Nazi party,” but actually it only represented a “socialist” and populist wing of the far right, with no connections to the real corridors of power until in October 1944 the Germans helped them to power as a last, desperate measure to keep Hungary on their side in the war), and after the coup against Horthy (when he tried to make a separate peace on October 15, 1944) its cellars became a kind of prison of lawless Arrow Cross militias. Even during the siege of Budapest (while the city was encircled), until in January 1945 the Red Army captured it. The Arrow Cross leader, Szálasi dubbed it the “House of Loyalty.”

    In 1945, the building didn’t suffer much destruction, had a number of suitable offices, still had its cellars which could be used as a prison (though those would be expanded later to include most of the cellars of neighboring buildings as well…), and as a former Arrow Cross Party building, it was administratively easy to seize it. Besides such practical considerations, the (Jewish) leader of the new secret police specifically asked for this building for symbolic reasons, too. So the new Political Department of the new “democratic” police (already under communist party command from the beginning) set up its headquarters there.

    So the first half of the museum deals with Nazi atrocities (mostly in Hungary), but it’s not very proportional in a sense, as most of it deals with the atrocities committed by after October 15, 1944, while most people killed by the Nazis and their collaborators were killed between April and early July 1944: these were the Jews deported to Auschwitz, but this is only mentioned in passing, at least that was the case in 2003. Anyway, the museum is to a large extent about the building (but it’s also not spelled out, so they deal with lots of stuff which happened outside or unconnected to the building), so maybe that’s not a problem, except if you want to learn history from it, and don’t pay attention to the fine details.

    Then there’s a room called “the changing of clothes,” which shows an Arrow Cross militia uniform and then a communist political police uniform. It implies that many Arrow Cross militia members simply went over to the communist political police, but nothing could be further from the truth: the communist secret policemen were mostly Jewish, and even those who weren’t, had nothing to do with the Arrow Cross or the pro-Nazi collaborators. (There were very few such cases, and even these people were later arrested.)

    One criticism against it was that while it glosses over (or just mentions in passing) most Nazi atrocities (in Hungary or elsewhere) before October 15, 1944 (on the grounds that those had nothing to do with the building itself), it dwells in details of communist oppression after the revolution in 1956 and similar things, which also had nothing to do with the building. (The political police, then called “State Protection Authority,” collapsed during the revolution, and its new incarnations didn’t use the building anymore, because they wanted to avoid being associated with the bad policies during the “cult of personality” in the early 1950s.) But maybe they have changed it since 2003.

    Anyway, I don’t think it’s worth to travel to Budapest for it, but if you’re there for a week, then it’s definitely worth visiting.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Sounds like the sort of over the top, not entirely honest anti-Communism that could cause more intelligent/questioning people (e.g. AP's children?) to sympathize with Communism.
    , @Beckow
    I have not been to the one in Budapest, but what you describe is fairly typical for the various 'communist' bashing museums around the region. They overdo it. I would go further than say that they are 'implying' false things, they create the narratives intentionally, they lie consciously.

    One explanation is that they are meant to attract (or please) Western tourists who are always on a look-out for Gulag. In Prague there is a mini-statue with '7 martyrs' hands' for the 1989 demonstrations - I have seen the local guides confirm to gullible Westerners (mostly Americans) that 'indeed, they were victims of the communist terror'. And well-fed tourists shudder in horror.

    Well, no - not a single person was killed in 1989, there was no shooting at all. But it makes the tourists reaffirm their view of the world, and the guides are pleased that they had pleased them, one has to be deferential to the fat ones. It is a weird dynamic, I suspect the Budapest museum works the same way.

  35. “HBD” seems to be some nonsense terminology (invented by people on this website or other blogs?). It has use in scientific publication.

    However, if you ask whether different populations have different distributions of inherited traits, this is obviously true (although not obvious its extent or mechanism), and an area where people are publishing research (which some types heavily constrained by political sensitivity).

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Yes, no two populations are genetically identical. No one ever claimed they were (that's another straw man invented by alt-right HBDers and I've seen Karlin use this straw man dozens of times, if someone simply points out human races don't exist, suddenly the straw man appears there's no population structure and/or we're all identical clones).
  36. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    Here in the states, the brightest males and prettiest [white] females usually leave their hometowns for the centers of capital and [pop] culture - e.g. the East Coast urban area, etc, etc.

    The average 1930 valedictorian of DuBois, PA; Clarksville, TN; Mason City, IA; or so forth, was more likely to stay at home than leave. Today, they GO.

    So in addition to the general decline of femininity in America, we have a dramatic concentration of the best in a few areas to the detriment of the great elsewhere known as Flyover Country.

    TL;DR: There are a lot of non-Americans here in Karlin’s threads. I am genuinely curious if this phenomenon – of the brightest males and prettiest females being more and more dramatically concentrated in the centers – is more exaggerated in America than it is elsewhere.

    And, yes, I know stats would be helpful, but I don't have any.

    It’s widespread even in Balkan shitholes.
    It’s a natural thing – there is far more going on in major urban centres – more job opportunities and better pay, better social and nightlife, more cool people, more clientelle for aspiring rural Instagram whores.
    Self-actualization.

    Thank you, Hollywood propaganda and social media.

  37. Anonymous[415] • Disclaimer says:
    @AP
    I'm not familiar enough with "HBD" to comment on it, but actually Blank Slatism is the non-scientific creationism:

    https://quillette.com/2018/12/11/progressive-creationism-a-review-of-a-dangerous-idea/

    “Blank slatism” is a straw man invented by the alt-right.

    • Troll: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    So, how is your position meaningfully different from blank slatism?
    , @The Big Red Scary
    Yeah, I know. I really hate that alt-right crypto-fascist Steven Pinker. That whole handsome, charismatic, liberal Jew thing is just to pool the wool over the eyes of the normies.
  38. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    Here in the states, the brightest males and prettiest [white] females usually leave their hometowns for the centers of capital and [pop] culture - e.g. the East Coast urban area, etc, etc.

    The average 1930 valedictorian of DuBois, PA; Clarksville, TN; Mason City, IA; or so forth, was more likely to stay at home than leave. Today, they GO.

    So in addition to the general decline of femininity in America, we have a dramatic concentration of the best in a few areas to the detriment of the great elsewhere known as Flyover Country.

    TL;DR: There are a lot of non-Americans here in Karlin’s threads. I am genuinely curious if this phenomenon – of the brightest males and prettiest females being more and more dramatically concentrated in the centers – is more exaggerated in America than it is elsewhere.

    And, yes, I know stats would be helpful, but I don't have any.

    This description of America internal migration, sounds identical as Russia – but the internal migration is probably more extreme in Russia as a result of the economic differences. and uneven distribution of job and spending.

    Your description of young women going to the East coast of America, is also funny like Russia – it’s famous that young and more attractive women are migrating to Moscow.

    However, perhaps unlike America, it’s not just rural to urban migration. There’s also a lot of migration from less fashionable cities and regional capital, to cities like Moscow and Petersburg.

    On the other hand, migrating abroad, it seems it might be more men than women overall (perhaps because external emigration requires certain types of visa). However, there isn’t any accurate information on external migration.

    Russian/American pattern of constant internal migration to the largest cities, is not the same in every country though. For example, in the UK, there is a lot of migration of young labour force into London from North cities. At the same time London is apparently also sending richer people, from their 30s, outwards to the South East corner of the island.

  39. Anonymous[415] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dmitry
    "HBD" seems to be some nonsense terminology (invented by people on this website or other blogs?). It has use in scientific publication.

    However, if you ask whether different populations have different distributions of inherited traits, this is obviously true (although not obvious its extent or mechanism), and an area where people are publishing research (which some types heavily constrained by political sensitivity).

    Yes, no two populations are genetically identical. No one ever claimed they were (that’s another straw man invented by alt-right HBDers and I’ve seen Karlin use this straw man dozens of times, if someone simply points out human races don’t exist, suddenly the straw man appears there’s no population structure and/or we’re all identical clones).

    • Replies: @Epigon

    if someone simply points out human races don’t exist
     
    But they do exist.

    EOD.

  40. Anonymous[415] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jason Liu
    Wikipedia culture is leftist academic culture duplicated online. Many of the left-wing power users backing each other up are retired academics who can spend all day litigating against dissidents. Almost all are white. Since Wikipedia defers to media/academia sources, it automatically shifts left because the right controls neither of those institutions.

    Right wing attempts to create favorable wikis (Conservapedia, Metapedia, InfoGalactic) have failed because the right lacks social skills, can't organize worth a damn, and simply aren't as dedicated. Otherwise slandering your enemies by SEO is an excellent idea.

    Baidu Baike is trash compared to Wikipedia, but sometimes I'm grateful that it's (loosely) monitored by the CCP and not allowed to turn into an complete equalist shitfest.

    Peter Frost has a habit of overreaching. I'm not delusional about every Chinese being nationalistic, but China's not gonna take a large number of African immigrants.

    HAHAHA.

    Is that the same Peter Frost nutter conspiracy theorist who claims self-identified white people are going to go extinct or be replaced, so he says they should vote for far-right/right wing populist parties? The so-called “Great replacement” conspiracy theory. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Peter_Frost#Politics

    Loons.

  41. In London, they are introducing a low emissions zone to Westminster,to try to clean the air pollution created by older vehicles from Westminster.

    It’s controversial as it will punish poorer people with older cars which do not match Euro 4 standards. So this is punishing cars built before 2006, when Euro 4 became a law.

    Still it will be interesting to see if it improves the situation and is copied by other cities, some which need this more than London.

    I experience air pollution from the cars, as one of the more negative when you visit central London.

    • Replies: @g2k
    I'm calling bs on this. Afaik the threshold limits for certain pollutants were drastically lowered a few years ago so that cities that previously fell way under them are now violating them. Inner London is, of course, full of rich rentiers and professionals who'll easily be able to afford this and millenials who still live like students (children) well into their thirties and generally don't drive. This will hit the outer suburbs though, so it might get 'interesting'. The congestion charge was introduced almost twenty years ago and there have, so far, been no regional copycats, so we can hope the same happens with this. I only ever drive to London on weekends and 12.50 is about a third of the difference in cost between petrol and a walk-up return train ticket from anywhere outside the home counties (with 2 people in the car, that becomes 1/6) etc. Alternatively, given that brexit has almost certainly been cancelled, it might be a good idea to drive on non uk, EU plates.
  42. @Anonymous
    "HBD" is pseudoscience like creationism. Try reading a science book.

    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Racialism

    HBD-denialism has much more in common with Creationism.

    Evolution stopped 50,000 years ago, and there are no evolved differences in the brain.

    Right.

    Actually the Biblical model of Creation denies a lot less of observable reality than liberal creationism does.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @LondonBob
    I don't believe in macro evolution, the fossil record, commonsense and what I see around me doesn't support it. Micro evolution can occur, but even that seems to be very limited. The irony is macro evolution is miraculous, were it to actually occur.
  43. @Anonymous
    "HBD" is pseudoscience like creationism. Try reading a science book.

    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Racialism

    Thanks, good to know that all differences in human populations stopped at the neck. They clearly didn’t stop elsewhere:

    Ethnicity-Related Skeletal Muscle Differences Across the Lifespan

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Oliver D. Smith is a professional SJW who flings pedophilia accusations against the people he is obsessed with from his mom's basement.

    (Not an exaggeration, a statement of fact).

    He does not deserve these effortpost responses.
  44. @Anonymous
    Yes, no two populations are genetically identical. No one ever claimed they were (that's another straw man invented by alt-right HBDers and I've seen Karlin use this straw man dozens of times, if someone simply points out human races don't exist, suddenly the straw man appears there's no population structure and/or we're all identical clones).

    if someone simply points out human races don’t exist

    But they do exist.

    EOD.

  45. @Anonymous
    "Blank slatism" is a straw man invented by the alt-right.

    So, how is your position meaningfully different from blank slatism?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    There never was blank-slatism. For example if we take someone like Richard Lewontin:

    "In fact, neither characterization [Herrnstein & Murray 1994] is accurate or honest. Theorists such as Lewontin have never denied the possibility of genetic influences; what they have denied is that there is any convincing evidence of any genetic influences." https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Hereditarianism#Jensen.27s_straw_man

    If you could actually show evidence for between-group heritability [IQ] being above 0%, scientists like Lewontin would change their minds. No evidence though exists and 0% is the default hypothesis. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Hereditarianism#Lack_of_evidence

    "As mentioned, the default hypothesis is the null hypothesis, i.e. zero between-group heritability (0% genes). This has never been falsified. For this reason several scientists e.g. Eric Turkheimer, Richard E. Nisbett argue "there's still no good reason to believe black-white IQ differences are due to genes."[69] Nisbett (2005) however does not deny the possibility genes are negligibly involved in between-group heritability, but sees no reason right now to argue for this since the null hypothesis (0% genes) is the unfalsified default hypothesis."

    Additionally, the other straw man is to categorise anti-hereditarians as being only those scientists arguing for the default hypothesis of 0%. What happens if a scientist argues for 0.1% or 3%? They aren't hereditarians. Rushton & Jensen made it very clear in their work that hereditarianism has to be a significant, not negligible percent.

    How Jensen in 1973 defined the hereditarianism hypothesis:

    "the hypothesis that something between one-half and three-fourths of the average IQ difference between American Negroes and whites is attributable to genetic factors, and the remainder to environmental factors and their interaction with the genetic differences"

    So 50-75%, elsewhere he said 80%.

    Hereditarians like Jensen lost the argument decades back, so tried to re-define hereditarianism from 50-80% to mean anything above 0%.

  46. @AP
    I'm not familiar enough with "HBD" to comment on it, but actually Blank Slatism is the non-scientific creationism:

    https://quillette.com/2018/12/11/progressive-creationism-a-review-of-a-dangerous-idea/

    HBD stands for human biodiversity.

  47. @Anonymous
    I've been asking this same question to HBDers for over 5 years:

    Even if your theory is scientific (it isn't, but pseudoscience), what use does it have? None.

    You cannot implement any HBD-based policy or law; secondly no one will vote on this issue, thirdly, aside from crackpots and basement dwellers no one has even heard of "HBD". It's a internet movement for weirdos like Anatoly Karlin. If you walked into your work office discussing this sort of thing you would get stared at. It's so divorced from everyday life and normality. Try getting some fresh air dude.

    Everything you people type on this website is regarded as literally insane to normal people. You cannot sell HBD to the ordinary public. So you losers are confined to the internet typing this HBD garbage on UNZ. lol

    You’re surely joking, right? After all, HBD-awareness could certainly result in better policies in certain fields. For instance, in regards to affirmative action and immigration. Also, in regards to criminal justice (where the focus should be on combating the effects of bad genes as opposed to trying to reshape violent criminals).

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Dude, try living in real world. Politically, far-right parties have adopted the HBD nonsense already; they get obliterated in elections since no one normal cares about this stuff, it's not at all palatable to voters and HBD is a lunatic-fringe internet movement. Furthermore, HBD just demonises any actual legitimate reasons ordinary people might have for wanting to lower immigration (look at surveys, it has nothing to do with race.) And paradoxically, groups like the SPLC love far-right nutters to promote this HBD stuff because its so stupid and scares away the public. Anyway, I'll leave you to your HBD dungeons and dragons. Have fun.
    , @dfordoom

    You’re surely joking, right? After all, HBD-awareness could certainly result in better policies in certain fields. For instance, in regards to affirmative action and immigration.
     
    HBD is a powerful argument for the welfare state, and for socialism. HBD means that some groups of people need more help, so logically those groups should receive more welfare. And more affirmative action.

    It could also be used as an argument in favour of immigration - these people just can't cope in their own countries. They need our help. They need to be brought to the West where we can be sure they'll get the help they need.

    It's an extremely strong argument in favour of universal health care system, and for the government to provide housing for HBD-disadvantaged groups. In fact it could be (and undoubtedly will be) argued that these groups will need government-subsidised (or more probably free) utilities, telephones, internet, transportation, pharmaceuticals, etc etc.

    It's also quite likely to be argued that HBD-disadvantaged groups should get additional direct financial payments from the government

    Acceptance of HBD will require a large expansion of the bureaucracy. It will be a boon for therapists, counsellors, social workers, etc.
  48. @reiner Tor
    Chinese politicians have power over business Japanese politicians don't. So it's a question if Chinese business will be strong enough to push for open borders. If yes, it's an argument against dictatorship: what use is a dictatorship which cannot even stand up to normal lobbies? If not, then it's an argument for dictatorship: dictatorship could stand up to the business lobbies and support the genetic interests of the people while democracy could not.

    Well, ultimately “genetic interests” alone probably won’t be enough for politicians; the cui bono principle applies. A non-elected government derives less benefit from importing new voters for obvious reasons, and it reduces the issues of ethnic strife(which complicates governance). That said, wage pressures will probably cause some changes, because the alternative will be mass outsourcing to neighboring countries and loss of local employment.

    Its possible that subsidies and automation will alter this, but that’s still yet to be seen.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    A stable authoritarian regime is a group of stationary bandits, so they might actually think about longer term effects on the loyalty of the population and similar issues. Whereas democratic leaders behave more like roving bandits - they certainly cannot reasonably believe that they'd stay for decades.

    I think workforce could be imported without handing out citizenship or even permanent residence permits. The Arab authoritarians do that all the time. Something similar might happen in China. I'd say a vast improvement over what we have in the West.
  49. Heritable differences obviously exist between populations. Just as obviously, they are not as significant as HBD people claim.

    I do not understand this need to go to insane extremes.

    The clearest example of this on the HBD side is JayMan, who believes literally everything is 100% heritable. Even most fervent HBD believers repudiate him as insane. But all believers in HBD that I have read go too far in trying to explain things through heritability.

    And obviously Blank Slatism is completely untenable.

    HBD is obviously a corrective reaction to Blank Slatism – itself a corrective reaction to earlier racism.

    As our culture advances boldly into senescence, we can no longer produce fruitful syntheses that yield more or less usefully accurate models of reality, but can only swing wildly between sterile extremes that convince only a handful of kooky true believers on either side.

    I like the traditional Jewish attitude to HBD, encapsulated in the matrilineal idea – it is only necessary for one parent to be Jewish. This is a perfect compromise between herirabiliy and environment. Ethnic descent is important, but it is not everything.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    all believers in HBD that I have read go too far
     
    No, you are wrong. Some believers in HBD have gone too far.

    Ethnic descent is important, but it is not everything.
     
    That's a straw man, no one said it's "everything."
    , @Anonymous
    "Blank slatism" isn't untenable - it doesn't exist. Its a straw man invented by HBD/alt-right.

    Is covered here:
    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Hereditarianism#Jensen.27s_straw_man

    "Jensen and Rushton throughout their careers would focus on trying to falsify zero between-group heritability, that they described as the "only environmental"[43] or "only culture" view.[44] Charles Murray often uses the same straw man and defines hereditarianism as only above-zero between-group heritability to argue "if you say it is likely that there is any genetic component to the black-white difference in test scores, the roof crashes in on you."[45] This is false, since it would mean absurdly classifying anti-hereditarians who accept the possibility or likelihood there is a very minor genetic component involved in the black-white IQ gap, as hereditarians."
    , @songbird
    I think matri-nationalism is an unworkable standard in modern times. It doesn't work because the availability of cheap flights means that the potential genetic distance between parents has greatly increased. This is a problem because it increases the phenotypic distinctness of offspring, who are already incentivized to identify as other, plus likely have genetically-based xenophilia from their mother.

    Ex: Barrack Obama - not someone I'd like to have guarding the town gate, when Moorish armies were on the prowl.
  50. Anonymous[415] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr. XYZ
    You're surely joking, right? After all, HBD-awareness could certainly result in better policies in certain fields. For instance, in regards to affirmative action and immigration. Also, in regards to criminal justice (where the focus should be on combating the effects of bad genes as opposed to trying to reshape violent criminals).

    Dude, try living in real world. Politically, far-right parties have adopted the HBD nonsense already; they get obliterated in elections since no one normal cares about this stuff, it’s not at all palatable to voters and HBD is a lunatic-fringe internet movement. Furthermore, HBD just demonises any actual legitimate reasons ordinary people might have for wanting to lower immigration (look at surveys, it has nothing to do with race.) And paradoxically, groups like the SPLC love far-right nutters to promote this HBD stuff because its so stupid and scares away the public. Anyway, I’ll leave you to your HBD dungeons and dragons. Have fun.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    Politically, far-right parties have adopted the HBD nonsense already
     
    Which planet are you from?
    , @dfordoom

    Politically, far-right parties have adopted the HBD nonsense already; they get obliterated in elections since no one normal cares about this stuff, it’s not at all palatable to voters and HBD is a lunatic-fringe internet movement. Furthermore, HBD just demonises any actual legitimate reasons ordinary people might have for wanting to lower immigration (look at surveys, it has nothing to do with race.)
     
    Unfortunately that's all too true. Politically HBD will remain absolutely poisonous.

    It's a loser issue. If you want to make absolutely certain that you will be politically irrelevant and will remain politically irrelevant then espousing HBD is the way to do it.

    But alt-righters live in a fantasy world of their own making. They actually think they can sell HBD.
  51. @Daniel Chieh
    Well, ultimately "genetic interests" alone probably won't be enough for politicians; the cui bono principle applies. A non-elected government derives less benefit from importing new voters for obvious reasons, and it reduces the issues of ethnic strife(which complicates governance). That said, wage pressures will probably cause some changes, because the alternative will be mass outsourcing to neighboring countries and loss of local employment.

    Its possible that subsidies and automation will alter this, but that's still yet to be seen.

    A stable authoritarian regime is a group of stationary bandits, so they might actually think about longer term effects on the loyalty of the population and similar issues. Whereas democratic leaders behave more like roving bandits – they certainly cannot reasonably believe that they’d stay for decades.

    I think workforce could be imported without handing out citizenship or even permanent residence permits. The Arab authoritarians do that all the time. Something similar might happen in China. I’d say a vast improvement over what we have in the West.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    I think one major difference is that there doesn't seem to be the argument that "people deserve to immigrate" to have much of a cachet in China; part of the entire cutthroat attitude, where it can sometimes be a hard case to make that "people deserve to live" or "babies shouldn't have melamine in their formula."

    The power of the plutocracy versus the power of the government is interesting, and I think its leaning toward the latter at the moment. The centralization of the state makes it a significant player with arbitrary power, and the Party is a jealous God. However, for them to retain legitimacy, they need to continue to deliver to the population and what that means may change in many ways in the future with the flux in technology.

    There does seem to be a bit more of a long term vision. There are cycles, but its longer than Western election cycles and the governance reflects that.
  52. @Anonymous
    Dude, try living in real world. Politically, far-right parties have adopted the HBD nonsense already; they get obliterated in elections since no one normal cares about this stuff, it's not at all palatable to voters and HBD is a lunatic-fringe internet movement. Furthermore, HBD just demonises any actual legitimate reasons ordinary people might have for wanting to lower immigration (look at surveys, it has nothing to do with race.) And paradoxically, groups like the SPLC love far-right nutters to promote this HBD stuff because its so stupid and scares away the public. Anyway, I'll leave you to your HBD dungeons and dragons. Have fun.

    Politically, far-right parties have adopted the HBD nonsense already

    Which planet are you from?

    • Replies: @DFH
    Atlantis
  53. @AaronB
    Heritable differences obviously exist between populations. Just as obviously, they are not as significant as HBD people claim.

    I do not understand this need to go to insane extremes.

    The clearest example of this on the HBD side is JayMan, who believes literally everything is 100% heritable. Even most fervent HBD believers repudiate him as insane. But all believers in HBD that I have read go too far in trying to explain things through heritability.

    And obviously Blank Slatism is completely untenable.

    HBD is obviously a corrective reaction to Blank Slatism - itself a corrective reaction to earlier racism.

    As our culture advances boldly into senescence, we can no longer produce fruitful syntheses that yield more or less usefully accurate models of reality, but can only swing wildly between sterile extremes that convince only a handful of kooky true believers on either side.

    I like the traditional Jewish attitude to HBD, encapsulated in the matrilineal idea - it is only necessary for one parent to be Jewish. This is a perfect compromise between herirabiliy and environment. Ethnic descent is important, but it is not everything.

    all believers in HBD that I have read go too far

    No, you are wrong. Some believers in HBD have gone too far.

    Ethnic descent is important, but it is not everything.

    That’s a straw man, no one said it’s “everything.”

    • Replies: @AaronB
    It's a question of judgement. In my view, the majority of people who identify as big believers in HBD go much too far with it, leading to rather silly outcomes, and an unwillingness on the part of normal people to accept the useful parts of it.

    As for no one saying everything is genetic, sure. But there such a thing as revealed preferences. If 99% of a writer's posts focus on the genetic aspect in order to explain a situation, then for that person, functionally, genes are everything.
  54. @reiner Tor

    Politically, far-right parties have adopted the HBD nonsense already
     
    Which planet are you from?

    Atlantis

  55. Anonymous[415] • Disclaimer says:
    @AaronB
    Heritable differences obviously exist between populations. Just as obviously, they are not as significant as HBD people claim.

    I do not understand this need to go to insane extremes.

    The clearest example of this on the HBD side is JayMan, who believes literally everything is 100% heritable. Even most fervent HBD believers repudiate him as insane. But all believers in HBD that I have read go too far in trying to explain things through heritability.

    And obviously Blank Slatism is completely untenable.

    HBD is obviously a corrective reaction to Blank Slatism - itself a corrective reaction to earlier racism.

    As our culture advances boldly into senescence, we can no longer produce fruitful syntheses that yield more or less usefully accurate models of reality, but can only swing wildly between sterile extremes that convince only a handful of kooky true believers on either side.

    I like the traditional Jewish attitude to HBD, encapsulated in the matrilineal idea - it is only necessary for one parent to be Jewish. This is a perfect compromise between herirabiliy and environment. Ethnic descent is important, but it is not everything.

    “Blank slatism” isn’t untenable – it doesn’t exist. Its a straw man invented by HBD/alt-right.

    Is covered here:
    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Hereditarianism#Jensen.27s_straw_man

    “Jensen and Rushton throughout their careers would focus on trying to falsify zero between-group heritability, that they described as the “only environmental”[43] or “only culture” view.[44] Charles Murray often uses the same straw man and defines hereditarianism as only above-zero between-group heritability to argue “if you say it is likely that there is any genetic component to the black-white difference in test scores, the roof crashes in on you.”[45] This is false, since it would mean absurdly classifying anti-hereditarians who accept the possibility or likelihood there is a very minor genetic component involved in the black-white IQ gap, as hereditarians.”

    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    very minor genetic component involved in the black-white IQ gap
     
    What is "very minor"? At least half and probably more of the black-white IQ gap in the US is caused by genetic factors. Anyone who has studied the issue in any depth should come to this conclusion. Anyone who studies economic differences between blacks and whites or black and white countries should also study the IQ gap. This applies to basically all sociologists, economists, etc. (i.e. they have or should have studied the issue). If they don't come to this very moderate and reasonable conclusion, they should be sacked from all positions in academia.

    I cannot see how this could even be controversial.
    , @AaronB
    Blank Slatism certainly isn't a strawman.

    Many Leftists do believe in it.

    I see the problem here as systemic. People see the damage caused by 19th and early 20th century style racism, and react into Blank Slatism. Then people begin to see the social damage and injustice caused by assuming outcomes are never based on hereditary group differences, and react into HBD.

    The system itself has a tendency to resolve into extremes. The dominant intellectual climate seems to be - let's take an idea and run with it. Lets see how far we can use it to explain everything (easily seen with HBD believers). The result is interesting - in the beginning, overlooked aspects of reality are discovered, but it quickly becomes grotesquely unbalanced.
    , @songbird
    Right. Obviously, a guy like Steven Pinker who writes books like "Enlightment Now" and "The Better Angels of Our Nature" was just the stooge of Murray, Jensen, and Rushton, when he wrote "The Blank Slate."
  56. @reiner Tor

    all believers in HBD that I have read go too far
     
    No, you are wrong. Some believers in HBD have gone too far.

    Ethnic descent is important, but it is not everything.
     
    That's a straw man, no one said it's "everything."

    It’s a question of judgement. In my view, the majority of people who identify as big believers in HBD go much too far with it, leading to rather silly outcomes, and an unwillingness on the part of normal people to accept the useful parts of it.

    As for no one saying everything is genetic, sure. But there such a thing as revealed preferences. If 99% of a writer’s posts focus on the genetic aspect in order to explain a situation, then for that person, functionally, genes are everything.

  57. @Anonymous
    "Blank slatism" isn't untenable - it doesn't exist. Its a straw man invented by HBD/alt-right.

    Is covered here:
    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Hereditarianism#Jensen.27s_straw_man

    "Jensen and Rushton throughout their careers would focus on trying to falsify zero between-group heritability, that they described as the "only environmental"[43] or "only culture" view.[44] Charles Murray often uses the same straw man and defines hereditarianism as only above-zero between-group heritability to argue "if you say it is likely that there is any genetic component to the black-white difference in test scores, the roof crashes in on you."[45] This is false, since it would mean absurdly classifying anti-hereditarians who accept the possibility or likelihood there is a very minor genetic component involved in the black-white IQ gap, as hereditarians."

    very minor genetic component involved in the black-white IQ gap

    What is “very minor”? At least half and probably more of the black-white IQ gap in the US is caused by genetic factors. Anyone who has studied the issue in any depth should come to this conclusion. Anyone who studies economic differences between blacks and whites or black and white countries should also study the IQ gap. This applies to basically all sociologists, economists, etc. (i.e. they have or should have studied the issue). If they don’t come to this very moderate and reasonable conclusion, they should be sacked from all positions in academia.

    I cannot see how this could even be controversial.

  58. @Anonymous
    "Blank slatism" isn't untenable - it doesn't exist. Its a straw man invented by HBD/alt-right.

    Is covered here:
    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Hereditarianism#Jensen.27s_straw_man

    "Jensen and Rushton throughout their careers would focus on trying to falsify zero between-group heritability, that they described as the "only environmental"[43] or "only culture" view.[44] Charles Murray often uses the same straw man and defines hereditarianism as only above-zero between-group heritability to argue "if you say it is likely that there is any genetic component to the black-white difference in test scores, the roof crashes in on you."[45] This is false, since it would mean absurdly classifying anti-hereditarians who accept the possibility or likelihood there is a very minor genetic component involved in the black-white IQ gap, as hereditarians."

    Blank Slatism certainly isn’t a strawman.

    Many Leftists do believe in it.

    I see the problem here as systemic. People see the damage caused by 19th and early 20th century style racism, and react into Blank Slatism. Then people begin to see the social damage and injustice caused by assuming outcomes are never based on hereditary group differences, and react into HBD.

    The system itself has a tendency to resolve into extremes. The dominant intellectual climate seems to be – let’s take an idea and run with it. Lets see how far we can use it to explain everything (easily seen with HBD believers). The result is interesting – in the beginning, overlooked aspects of reality are discovered, but it quickly becomes grotesquely unbalanced.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    HBD is just repackaged white nationalism. They do this all the time, e.g. David Duke no longer calls himself a white nationalist but a "racial realist" -- racial realism (a term coined by Rushton) is another laughable attempt by white nationalists to repackage and modernise their ideology. These same fools have also started doing this with the alt-right like Anatoly Karlin. Suddenly now these people are no longer calling themselves alt-right (because that word became too toxic post- Charlottesville), but "alt-centre". https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Alt-center

    The funny thing is what's the point? You cannot sell HBD to ordinary or sane people in real life (its confined to weirdos on the internet) and everyone knows this is just word play and you're still white nationalist kooks. How has it helped David Duke to re-label himself a racial realist? He got obliterated in the last election he stood and laughed at.

  59. Anonymous[415] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr. XYZ
    So, how is your position meaningfully different from blank slatism?

    There never was blank-slatism. For example if we take someone like Richard Lewontin:

    “In fact, neither characterization [Herrnstein & Murray 1994] is accurate or honest. Theorists such as Lewontin have never denied the possibility of genetic influences; what they have denied is that there is any convincing evidence of any genetic influences.” https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Hereditarianism#Jensen.27s_straw_man

    If you could actually show evidence for between-group heritability [IQ] being above 0%, scientists like Lewontin would change their minds. No evidence though exists and 0% is the default hypothesis. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Hereditarianism#Lack_of_evidence

    “As mentioned, the default hypothesis is the null hypothesis, i.e. zero between-group heritability (0% genes). This has never been falsified. For this reason several scientists e.g. Eric Turkheimer, Richard E. Nisbett argue “there’s still no good reason to believe black-white IQ differences are due to genes.”[69] Nisbett (2005) however does not deny the possibility genes are negligibly involved in between-group heritability, but sees no reason right now to argue for this since the null hypothesis (0% genes) is the unfalsified default hypothesis.”

    Additionally, the other straw man is to categorise anti-hereditarians as being only those scientists arguing for the default hypothesis of 0%. What happens if a scientist argues for 0.1% or 3%? They aren’t hereditarians. Rushton & Jensen made it very clear in their work that hereditarianism has to be a significant, not negligible percent.

    How Jensen in 1973 defined the hereditarianism hypothesis:

    “the hypothesis that something between one-half and three-fourths of the average IQ difference between American Negroes and whites is attributable to genetic factors, and the remainder to environmental factors and their interaction with the genetic differences”

    So 50-75%, elsewhere he said 80%.

    Hereditarians like Jensen lost the argument decades back, so tried to re-define hereditarianism from 50-80% to mean anything above 0%.

    • Replies: @szopen
    You are nut. Complete nutcase.

    "the default hypothesis is the null hypothesis, i.e. zero between-group heritability" This is absolutely extraordinary claim; because we know that heritability influences many other traits so the null hypothesis is that for any trait there should be some biological/inheritable differences (unless you are some kind of creationist who believes that psychological traits is somewhat not influenced by material world). You would need really good arguments to prove it's wrong, especially since analysis by e.g. Woodley of genetical variants assocaited with intelligence. Those analysis of course do not prove anything, but they surely they are compatible with null hypothesis (i.e what you should expect if you just think about about what should be consequences of evolution) and they are not compatible with blank slatism pseudo-scientific cult espoused by fanatics like you.

    Not to mention you are seemingly unironically quoting the most lunatic site on the internet. Come on! rationalwiki?? It's like quoting stormfront or something. Or Soviet Pravda.

  60. @Anonymous
    "Blank slatism" isn't untenable - it doesn't exist. Its a straw man invented by HBD/alt-right.

    Is covered here:
    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Hereditarianism#Jensen.27s_straw_man

    "Jensen and Rushton throughout their careers would focus on trying to falsify zero between-group heritability, that they described as the "only environmental"[43] or "only culture" view.[44] Charles Murray often uses the same straw man and defines hereditarianism as only above-zero between-group heritability to argue "if you say it is likely that there is any genetic component to the black-white difference in test scores, the roof crashes in on you."[45] This is false, since it would mean absurdly classifying anti-hereditarians who accept the possibility or likelihood there is a very minor genetic component involved in the black-white IQ gap, as hereditarians."

    Right. Obviously, a guy like Steven Pinker who writes books like “Enlightment Now” and “The Better Angels of Our Nature” was just the stooge of Murray, Jensen, and Rushton, when he wrote “The Blank Slate.”

  61. Anonymous[415] • Disclaimer says:
    @AaronB
    Blank Slatism certainly isn't a strawman.

    Many Leftists do believe in it.

    I see the problem here as systemic. People see the damage caused by 19th and early 20th century style racism, and react into Blank Slatism. Then people begin to see the social damage and injustice caused by assuming outcomes are never based on hereditary group differences, and react into HBD.

    The system itself has a tendency to resolve into extremes. The dominant intellectual climate seems to be - let's take an idea and run with it. Lets see how far we can use it to explain everything (easily seen with HBD believers). The result is interesting - in the beginning, overlooked aspects of reality are discovered, but it quickly becomes grotesquely unbalanced.

    HBD is just repackaged white nationalism. They do this all the time, e.g. David Duke no longer calls himself a white nationalist but a “racial realist” — racial realism (a term coined by Rushton) is another laughable attempt by white nationalists to repackage and modernise their ideology. These same fools have also started doing this with the alt-right like Anatoly Karlin. Suddenly now these people are no longer calling themselves alt-right (because that word became too toxic post- Charlottesville), but “alt-centre”. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Alt-center

    The funny thing is what’s the point? You cannot sell HBD to ordinary or sane people in real life (its confined to weirdos on the internet) and everyone knows this is just word play and you’re still white nationalist kooks. How has it helped David Duke to re-label himself a racial realist? He got obliterated in the last election he stood and laughed at.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Its much better to be a weirdo whining about weirdos, check.
    , @AaronB
    Well, yes. HBD is just a modern way of saying something that has been said many times down the centuries. There is nothing really new in it.

    The unique thing about HBD is that simply that it is more extreme than earlier versions. It does not appreciate environment or motivation. But that is because it is trying to be 'scientific', and is childish.

    As for white nationalism, its too abstract and theoretical to gain any serious momentum. But it's important to recognize the element if truth in white nationalism.

    European-derived people's are unique among the world's peoples in not having an ethnic identity to cling to. This is unbalanced and psychologically unhealthy.

    Of course, white nationalism is both too extreme and too abstract, but it is only a first clumsy attempt to remedy the lack. Its no wonder that it will make many mistakes, and actually come out of the same kind of abstract Enlightenment thinking that made them lose touch with their 'blood' ancestry in the first place.

    But restoring a sense if ethnic identity to Europeans, and thus bringing them into line with the whole rest of the world, need not be a sinister project, and is ultimately a benign one.

    The way to deal with white nationalism isn't to suppress it, but take seriously the useful and correct element in it and put it in more healthy and moderate forms.
  62. @reiner Tor
    A stable authoritarian regime is a group of stationary bandits, so they might actually think about longer term effects on the loyalty of the population and similar issues. Whereas democratic leaders behave more like roving bandits - they certainly cannot reasonably believe that they'd stay for decades.

    I think workforce could be imported without handing out citizenship or even permanent residence permits. The Arab authoritarians do that all the time. Something similar might happen in China. I'd say a vast improvement over what we have in the West.

    I think one major difference is that there doesn’t seem to be the argument that “people deserve to immigrate” to have much of a cachet in China; part of the entire cutthroat attitude, where it can sometimes be a hard case to make that “people deserve to live” or “babies shouldn’t have melamine in their formula.”

    The power of the plutocracy versus the power of the government is interesting, and I think its leaning toward the latter at the moment. The centralization of the state makes it a significant player with arbitrary power, and the Party is a jealous God. However, for them to retain legitimacy, they need to continue to deliver to the population and what that means may change in many ways in the future with the flux in technology.

    There does seem to be a bit more of a long term vision. There are cycles, but its longer than Western election cycles and the governance reflects that.

  63. @Anonymous
    HBD is just repackaged white nationalism. They do this all the time, e.g. David Duke no longer calls himself a white nationalist but a "racial realist" -- racial realism (a term coined by Rushton) is another laughable attempt by white nationalists to repackage and modernise their ideology. These same fools have also started doing this with the alt-right like Anatoly Karlin. Suddenly now these people are no longer calling themselves alt-right (because that word became too toxic post- Charlottesville), but "alt-centre". https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Alt-center

    The funny thing is what's the point? You cannot sell HBD to ordinary or sane people in real life (its confined to weirdos on the internet) and everyone knows this is just word play and you're still white nationalist kooks. How has it helped David Duke to re-label himself a racial realist? He got obliterated in the last election he stood and laughed at.

    Its much better to be a weirdo whining about weirdos, check.

    • LOL: szopen
  64. @Anonymous
    HBD is just repackaged white nationalism. They do this all the time, e.g. David Duke no longer calls himself a white nationalist but a "racial realist" -- racial realism (a term coined by Rushton) is another laughable attempt by white nationalists to repackage and modernise their ideology. These same fools have also started doing this with the alt-right like Anatoly Karlin. Suddenly now these people are no longer calling themselves alt-right (because that word became too toxic post- Charlottesville), but "alt-centre". https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Alt-center

    The funny thing is what's the point? You cannot sell HBD to ordinary or sane people in real life (its confined to weirdos on the internet) and everyone knows this is just word play and you're still white nationalist kooks. How has it helped David Duke to re-label himself a racial realist? He got obliterated in the last election he stood and laughed at.

    Well, yes. HBD is just a modern way of saying something that has been said many times down the centuries. There is nothing really new in it.

    The unique thing about HBD is that simply that it is more extreme than earlier versions. It does not appreciate environment or motivation. But that is because it is trying to be ‘scientific’, and is childish.

    As for white nationalism, its too abstract and theoretical to gain any serious momentum. But it’s important to recognize the element if truth in white nationalism.

    European-derived people’s are unique among the world’s peoples in not having an ethnic identity to cling to. This is unbalanced and psychologically unhealthy.

    Of course, white nationalism is both too extreme and too abstract, but it is only a first clumsy attempt to remedy the lack. Its no wonder that it will make many mistakes, and actually come out of the same kind of abstract Enlightenment thinking that made them lose touch with their ‘blood’ ancestry in the first place.

    But restoring a sense if ethnic identity to Europeans, and thus bringing them into line with the whole rest of the world, need not be a sinister project, and is ultimately a benign one.

    The way to deal with white nationalism isn’t to suppress it, but take seriously the useful and correct element in it and put it in more healthy and moderate forms.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    The real question is if Mr. Karlin supports the Machine God and the Omnimessiah that is the Emperor, or the Holy Emperor and accepts His faithful followers of such Techenginseers who happen to follow an modified version of the Imperial Cult.

    Such differences are important.
    , @Hyperborean

    European-derived people’s are unique among the world’s peoples in not having an ethnic identity to cling to. This is unbalanced and psychologically unhealthy.

    Of course, white nationalism is both too extreme and too abstract, but it is only a first clumsy attempt to remedy the lack. Its no wonder that it will make many mistakes, and actually come out of the same kind of abstract Enlightenment thinking that made them lose touch with their ‘blood’ ancestry in the first place.

    But restoring a sense if ethnic identity to Europeans, and thus bringing them into line with the whole rest of the world, need not be a sinister project, and is ultimately a benign one.
     
    Once again proving how American you are.
  65. @Anonymous
    Regarding your travel post on Twitter:

    I would probably go to Berlin just for its cultural-historical significance, but having just visited Budapest I can tell you it's a lovely place. Dirtier and shabbier than most Western European cities of course, but a fascinating place, quirky and eccentric, very affordable, and with the best quality of food of any country I have visited (including, inter alia, France, Italy and Japan). People told me the place was rackety, too many gypsies on the streets running scams...maybe I was just incredibly lucky but I saw pretty much 0 of this the whole trip. Overall highly recommended (watch out for the House of Terror though; a few comments in the guestbook were from your countrymen criticizing the Russophobia of the exhibit haha).

    Berlin is great but only if you have lots of time. If not expect to spend much of what time you do have on public transportation going to and from the places you want to visit rather than actually at such places. If going for just a few days it would be better to just pick one district to explore and forget about the rest of the city.

  66. Anonymous[357] • Disclaimer says:

    I don’t know if that really is Oliver Smith but this guy really does seem retarded enough to be of the sort who plays porn mods of Lara craft before whining about porn online.

    That said, people who reply to him are just as infantile, and only make him spew more proverbial turds on the site.

  67. I am curious if anyone else has read Norman Stone’s Short History of Hungary. I was quite surprised by how constantly he mentions the Jews and their role in various Communist movements in a book that’s mainstream and only a couple of hundred pages long.

  68. @AP
    Will be there in June. Is House of Terror worth it? I want to show the kids the horrors of communism.

    The problem with Berlin is that it isn't really all that beautiful. A big city with a lot going on.

    I visited in April 2010 so it may have improved since then.

    There was virtually no English so you needed to pick up pieces of A4 (7 1/2 x 11) paper with English notes at each stop but often there were none left. They allowed in too many people including hundreds of schoolchildren and the staff members hate hate hate both their jobs and the foreign visitors. For history buffs it is still worth visiting but if going in more tourist-friendly June I’d want to be there right when it opens in the morning as that’s probably the only way to avoid the overcrowding.

  69. @AaronB
    Well, yes. HBD is just a modern way of saying something that has been said many times down the centuries. There is nothing really new in it.

    The unique thing about HBD is that simply that it is more extreme than earlier versions. It does not appreciate environment or motivation. But that is because it is trying to be 'scientific', and is childish.

    As for white nationalism, its too abstract and theoretical to gain any serious momentum. But it's important to recognize the element if truth in white nationalism.

    European-derived people's are unique among the world's peoples in not having an ethnic identity to cling to. This is unbalanced and psychologically unhealthy.

    Of course, white nationalism is both too extreme and too abstract, but it is only a first clumsy attempt to remedy the lack. Its no wonder that it will make many mistakes, and actually come out of the same kind of abstract Enlightenment thinking that made them lose touch with their 'blood' ancestry in the first place.

    But restoring a sense if ethnic identity to Europeans, and thus bringing them into line with the whole rest of the world, need not be a sinister project, and is ultimately a benign one.

    The way to deal with white nationalism isn't to suppress it, but take seriously the useful and correct element in it and put it in more healthy and moderate forms.

    The real question is if Mr. Karlin supports the Machine God and the Omnimessiah that is the Emperor, or the Holy Emperor and accepts His faithful followers of such Techenginseers who happen to follow an modified version of the Imperial Cult.

    Such differences are important.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    I am Cult Mechanicus all the way.
  70. @AaronB
    Heritable differences obviously exist between populations. Just as obviously, they are not as significant as HBD people claim.

    I do not understand this need to go to insane extremes.

    The clearest example of this on the HBD side is JayMan, who believes literally everything is 100% heritable. Even most fervent HBD believers repudiate him as insane. But all believers in HBD that I have read go too far in trying to explain things through heritability.

    And obviously Blank Slatism is completely untenable.

    HBD is obviously a corrective reaction to Blank Slatism - itself a corrective reaction to earlier racism.

    As our culture advances boldly into senescence, we can no longer produce fruitful syntheses that yield more or less usefully accurate models of reality, but can only swing wildly between sterile extremes that convince only a handful of kooky true believers on either side.

    I like the traditional Jewish attitude to HBD, encapsulated in the matrilineal idea - it is only necessary for one parent to be Jewish. This is a perfect compromise between herirabiliy and environment. Ethnic descent is important, but it is not everything.

    I think matri-nationalism is an unworkable standard in modern times. It doesn’t work because the availability of cheap flights means that the potential genetic distance between parents has greatly increased. This is a problem because it increases the phenotypic distinctness of offspring, who are already incentivized to identify as other, plus likely have genetically-based xenophilia from their mother.

    Ex: Barrack Obama – not someone I’d like to have guarding the town gate, when Moorish armies were on the prowl.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    I'm not necesarily suggesting matrilinealism specifically - just the principle it embodies, that genes and ethnicity matter but are not everything.

    So a European people will have some concern with maintaining its ethnicity, but allow some ethnic introgression as well.

    Avoidance of extreme positions, which are brittle.
  71. @songbird
    I think matri-nationalism is an unworkable standard in modern times. It doesn't work because the availability of cheap flights means that the potential genetic distance between parents has greatly increased. This is a problem because it increases the phenotypic distinctness of offspring, who are already incentivized to identify as other, plus likely have genetically-based xenophilia from their mother.

    Ex: Barrack Obama - not someone I'd like to have guarding the town gate, when Moorish armies were on the prowl.

    I’m not necesarily suggesting matrilinealism specifically – just the principle it embodies, that genes and ethnicity matter but are not everything.

    So a European people will have some concern with maintaining its ethnicity, but allow some ethnic introgression as well.

    Avoidance of extreme positions, which are brittle.

  72. @Mr. XYZ
    Excellent links--especially the article about Crimea. As I said before, the Crimea annexation was certainly against international law, but so was probably NATO's military intervention in Kosovo back in 1999. If the latter can be viewed as being "illegal but legitimate," then probably so can the former.

    BTW, as I said before, I am tempted to disagree with you that other regions of Novorossiya would have experienced as massive of a spike in support for Russian rule (in comparison to Crimea, of course) had Russia conquered and annexed them in 2014 just like it did with Crimea. You mention that in Crimea, support for joining Russia went up from around 40% to over 90% after the annexation--in other words, an increase of 1.4 standard deviations. By that logic, though, since support for joining Russia in all of Ukraine was 12% in February 2014, such support should increase by 1.4 standard deviations to around 59% after a Russian conquest of all of Ukraine in 2014. Personally, I would consider such a figure for all of Ukraine (on average, of course--with some regions being much higher while other regions are going to be much lower than the average) after a Russian conquest to be unrealistic. After all, Yanukovych only barely won in 2010 and I just don't see "the Russian idea" as beating out Yanukovych by 10 points in Ukraine (on average, of course) if Russia would have conquered all of Ukraine in 2014.

    Personally, I think that a better way to try figuring out how much support there would have been in various parts of Novorossiya after a hypothetical Russian conquest and annexation of these territories in 2014 would have been to compare the percentages for the Party of Regions and/or the Communists in 2010 with those for the Opposition Bloc and/or the Communists in 2014--by oblast, of course. Then you could calculate the amount of standard deviations that "Russophile" sentiment fell by in each Ukrainian oblast between the 2010 and the 2014 Ukrainian parliamentary elections. Then, you could use these figures in reverse. In other words, use the relevant standard deviation data, but have the 2010 percentages increase by that amount of standard deviations as opposed to decrease by that amount of standard deviations. Once you will calculate this increase for each Ukrainian oblast and combine it with data from February 2014, you should figure out what percentage of people in each Ukrainian oblast would have supported a Russian annexation of their oblast after the fact.

    My proposed method appears to be a good one because Russophile voting sentiment (as measured by % of votes for the PoR/OB and/or Communists) did not fall evenly throughout all Ukrainian oblasts or even all Novorossiyan oblasts between 2010 and 2014. Thus, a more sophisticated and detailed calculation is necessary here.

    ..Crimea annexation was certainly against international law, but so was probably NATO’s military intervention in Kosovo

    Why ‘certainly‘ for Crimea, and ‘probably‘ for Kosovo? Since Kosovo happened first, establishing a precedent for redrawing borders by force, and was violent – massive bombing of Serb infrastructure with over 1k civilians killed, we should reverse the qualifiers.

    It doesn’t matter that much, we are generally in agreement, but it reminds of the verbal slippery slope in the West: words don’t mean anything, it is all in the qualifiers, confusion, imprecision, in effect a lawyerly take-over of the language. It leads to chaos and eventually verbally promiscuous societies collapse into an overload of sophistry.

    That’s how educated people can with a straight face for 2 years claim that ‘Trump is probably an agent of Russia‘ without being called morons that they are. Words and concepts mean nothing to them, but if others don’t point it out, we become accomplices.

    • Agree: melanf
    • Replies: @Mikhail

    Why ‘certainly‘ for Crimea, and ‘probably‘ for Kosovo? Since Kosovo happened first, establishing a precedent for redrawing borders by force, and was violent – massive bombing of Serb infrastructure with over 1k civilians killed, we should reverse the qualifiers.
     
    Don't forget northern Cyrprus which has some closer aspects to Crimea than Kosovo.
  73. @gate666
    yet you have no problem with global warming deniers.

    Can’t understand why people don’t believe all the climate hysteria, all their shrill claims over the past thirty years have such a great track record.

    https://www.apnews.com/bd45c372caf118ec99964ea547880cd0

    • Replies: @szopen
    The PR people usually are known for exxagerations. You really should not use press releases as a argument against climate scientists.
  74. @Thorfinnsson
    HBD-denialism has much more in common with Creationism.

    Evolution stopped 50,000 years ago, and there are no evolved differences in the brain.

    Right.

    Actually the Biblical model of Creation denies a lot less of observable reality than liberal creationism does.

    I don’t believe in macro evolution, the fossil record, commonsense and what I see around me doesn’t support it. Micro evolution can occur, but even that seems to be very limited. The irony is macro evolution is miraculous, were it to actually occur.

  75. @Dmitry
    In London, they are introducing a low emissions zone to Westminster,to try to clean the air pollution created by older vehicles from Westminster.

    It's controversial as it will punish poorer people with older cars which do not match Euro 4 standards. So this is punishing cars built before 2006, when Euro 4 became a law.

    Still it will be interesting to see if it improves the situation and is copied by other cities, some which need this more than London.

    I experience air pollution from the cars, as one of the more negative when you visit central London.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw4hGH4B-Qw

    I’m calling bs on this. Afaik the threshold limits for certain pollutants were drastically lowered a few years ago so that cities that previously fell way under them are now violating them. Inner London is, of course, full of rich rentiers and professionals who’ll easily be able to afford this and millenials who still live like students (children) well into their thirties and generally don’t drive. This will hit the outer suburbs though, so it might get ‘interesting’. The congestion charge was introduced almost twenty years ago and there have, so far, been no regional copycats, so we can hope the same happens with this. I only ever drive to London on weekends and 12.50 is about a third of the difference in cost between petrol and a walk-up return train ticket from anywhere outside the home counties (with 2 people in the car, that becomes 1/6) etc. Alternatively, given that brexit has almost certainly been cancelled, it might be a good idea to drive on non uk, EU plates.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    It is only in central London from now. Expansion for passenger automobiles outside central London will be from October 2021.

    So this will delay and weaken the punishment on poorer people.

    Euro 4 emissions standard entered new automobiles in 2006.

    So currently, people who have a petrol automobile older than 2006 will be punished in central London/Westminster only.

    The expansion to all London will not be until autumn 2021 (if current Mayor of London is re-elected), so this should reduce the punishment (but also reduce the need for the policy), as by 2021, fewer people will be driving a petrol automobile older than 2006 anyway.

    The main impact of the policy will be the requirement for Euro 6 trucks and lorries. And Euro 6 requirement for diesel automobile.

    https://i.imgur.com/2FrY1T6.png


    -


    It will be interesting to see when (how many years in the future) this is copied in Russian cities. In relation to passenger cars, it is easier to the extent automobile owning rates are a lot lower in Russia, diesel cars are much less popular, and cities are much more designed for public transport. However the automobile fleet is a lot older, and drivers with pre-Euro 4 petrol automobiles will have more difficulty to afford to upgrade these. .


    The congestion charge was introduced almost twenty years ago and there have, so far, been no regional copycats, so we can hope the same happens with this
     
    This is a regional copycat of other European cities. My question is what would be your solution of traffic pollution? I don't have asthma (although I have a sibling with severe asthma), and my lungs are healthy, and yet I still find it noticeably unpleasant to breath the air in a lot of cities.
  76. @Beckow

    ..Crimea annexation was certainly against international law, but so was probably NATO’s military intervention in Kosovo
     
    Why 'certainly' for Crimea, and 'probably' for Kosovo? Since Kosovo happened first, establishing a precedent for redrawing borders by force, and was violent - massive bombing of Serb infrastructure with over 1k civilians killed, we should reverse the qualifiers.

    It doesn't matter that much, we are generally in agreement, but it reminds of the verbal slippery slope in the West: words don't mean anything, it is all in the qualifiers, confusion, imprecision, in effect a lawyerly take-over of the language. It leads to chaos and eventually verbally promiscuous societies collapse into an overload of sophistry.

    That's how educated people can with a straight face for 2 years claim that 'Trump is probably an agent of Russia' without being called morons that they are. Words and concepts mean nothing to them, but if others don't point it out, we become accomplices.

    Why ‘certainly‘ for Crimea, and ‘probably‘ for Kosovo? Since Kosovo happened first, establishing a precedent for redrawing borders by force, and was violent – massive bombing of Serb infrastructure with over 1k civilians killed, we should reverse the qualifiers.

    Don’t forget northern Cyrprus which has some closer aspects to Crimea than Kosovo.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    I agree, North Cyprus is a closer analogy. One difference in the Cyprus case was that there was not even an administrative boundary in Cyprus - a new line was drawn out of thin air.

    Crimea case is much stronger in legal terms: it had autonomy and Crimean parliament, clear separation from the rest of Ukraine, and a referendum. In Cyprus and Kosovo cases the change of border was done purely by force.

    , @melanf

    Don’t forget northern Cyrprus which has some closer aspects to Crimea than Kosovo.
     
    The closest case is the annexation of Goa by India
  77. @Denis
    Yeah, I think Frost is way off the mark on that one. He's projecting a western issue onto China, namely, the fact that the leaders of western nations import millions of people from the four corners of the earth in a bid to fill apparent gaps in labour markets and combat declining consumption. It seems doubtful that Chinese leadership would make that particular mistake; they have a much greater capacity for long term planning than western policy makers do.

    “they have a much greater capacity for long term planning than western policy makers do.”

    I doubt it. If they were forward-looking, they would have ditched the one child policy a long time ago.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Its an interesting exploration into one of the major downsides of having powerful government agencies that might not occur right away to an observer - once such bureaus like the Family Planning Commission form, they are of course, dedicated to ensuring their continuation as it literally pays the bills for their members. In the same fashion, they will promote policies long after it is no longer necessary so they will continue to be.

    The typical axioms of the Iron Law of Bureaucracy apply, especially when it comes to government agencies where success is nebulously defined, and rarely correlated with any real performance.
  78. @Anonymous
    There never was blank-slatism. For example if we take someone like Richard Lewontin:

    "In fact, neither characterization [Herrnstein & Murray 1994] is accurate or honest. Theorists such as Lewontin have never denied the possibility of genetic influences; what they have denied is that there is any convincing evidence of any genetic influences." https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Hereditarianism#Jensen.27s_straw_man

    If you could actually show evidence for between-group heritability [IQ] being above 0%, scientists like Lewontin would change their minds. No evidence though exists and 0% is the default hypothesis. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Hereditarianism#Lack_of_evidence

    "As mentioned, the default hypothesis is the null hypothesis, i.e. zero between-group heritability (0% genes). This has never been falsified. For this reason several scientists e.g. Eric Turkheimer, Richard E. Nisbett argue "there's still no good reason to believe black-white IQ differences are due to genes."[69] Nisbett (2005) however does not deny the possibility genes are negligibly involved in between-group heritability, but sees no reason right now to argue for this since the null hypothesis (0% genes) is the unfalsified default hypothesis."

    Additionally, the other straw man is to categorise anti-hereditarians as being only those scientists arguing for the default hypothesis of 0%. What happens if a scientist argues for 0.1% or 3%? They aren't hereditarians. Rushton & Jensen made it very clear in their work that hereditarianism has to be a significant, not negligible percent.

    How Jensen in 1973 defined the hereditarianism hypothesis:

    "the hypothesis that something between one-half and three-fourths of the average IQ difference between American Negroes and whites is attributable to genetic factors, and the remainder to environmental factors and their interaction with the genetic differences"

    So 50-75%, elsewhere he said 80%.

    Hereditarians like Jensen lost the argument decades back, so tried to re-define hereditarianism from 50-80% to mean anything above 0%.

    You are nut. Complete nutcase.

    “the default hypothesis is the null hypothesis, i.e. zero between-group heritability” This is absolutely extraordinary claim; because we know that heritability influences many other traits so the null hypothesis is that for any trait there should be some biological/inheritable differences (unless you are some kind of creationist who believes that psychological traits is somewhat not influenced by material world). You would need really good arguments to prove it’s wrong, especially since analysis by e.g. Woodley of genetical variants assocaited with intelligence. Those analysis of course do not prove anything, but they surely they are compatible with null hypothesis (i.e what you should expect if you just think about about what should be consequences of evolution) and they are not compatible with blank slatism pseudo-scientific cult espoused by fanatics like you.

    Not to mention you are seemingly unironically quoting the most lunatic site on the internet. Come on! rationalwiki?? It’s like quoting stormfront or something. Or Soviet Pravda.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    He’s a rational wiki editor himself.
    , @Anatoly Karlin

    unironically quoting the most lunatic site on the internet. Come on! rationalwiki??
     
    He is the person who wrote a large percentage of those articles.
    , @Anonymous
    Hello Mr. Looney-tunes.

    The null hypothesis was applied by the federal district court in Larry P. v. Riles. (1979) "simply holds that since no relationship between race [or population] and intelligence has been shown to exist, the absence of a relationship must be assumed."

    While that was decades back, nothing has changed since then.

  79. @szopen
    You are nut. Complete nutcase.

    "the default hypothesis is the null hypothesis, i.e. zero between-group heritability" This is absolutely extraordinary claim; because we know that heritability influences many other traits so the null hypothesis is that for any trait there should be some biological/inheritable differences (unless you are some kind of creationist who believes that psychological traits is somewhat not influenced by material world). You would need really good arguments to prove it's wrong, especially since analysis by e.g. Woodley of genetical variants assocaited with intelligence. Those analysis of course do not prove anything, but they surely they are compatible with null hypothesis (i.e what you should expect if you just think about about what should be consequences of evolution) and they are not compatible with blank slatism pseudo-scientific cult espoused by fanatics like you.

    Not to mention you are seemingly unironically quoting the most lunatic site on the internet. Come on! rationalwiki?? It's like quoting stormfront or something. Or Soviet Pravda.

    He’s a rational wiki editor himself.

    • Replies: @szopen
    Aww, that's explains a lot. I should have ignored him, then.

    But I am really astonished at the level of mental gymnastics one would have to employ to believe that "zero heritable differences" should be a default hypothesis.

    BTW - I am quite sure I have mistaken the author of the paper on genetics of intelligence. Was it Woodley, or David P... forgot his name?

  80. @g2k
    I'm calling bs on this. Afaik the threshold limits for certain pollutants were drastically lowered a few years ago so that cities that previously fell way under them are now violating them. Inner London is, of course, full of rich rentiers and professionals who'll easily be able to afford this and millenials who still live like students (children) well into their thirties and generally don't drive. This will hit the outer suburbs though, so it might get 'interesting'. The congestion charge was introduced almost twenty years ago and there have, so far, been no regional copycats, so we can hope the same happens with this. I only ever drive to London on weekends and 12.50 is about a third of the difference in cost between petrol and a walk-up return train ticket from anywhere outside the home counties (with 2 people in the car, that becomes 1/6) etc. Alternatively, given that brexit has almost certainly been cancelled, it might be a good idea to drive on non uk, EU plates.

    It is only in central London from now. Expansion for passenger automobiles outside central London will be from October 2021.

    So this will delay and weaken the punishment on poorer people.

    Euro 4 emissions standard entered new automobiles in 2006.

    So currently, people who have a petrol automobile older than 2006 will be punished in central London/Westminster only.

    The expansion to all London will not be until autumn 2021 (if current Mayor of London is re-elected), so this should reduce the punishment (but also reduce the need for the policy), as by 2021, fewer people will be driving a petrol automobile older than 2006 anyway.

    The main impact of the policy will be the requirement for Euro 6 trucks and lorries. And Euro 6 requirement for diesel automobile.

    It will be interesting to see when (how many years in the future) this is copied in Russian cities. In relation to passenger cars, it is easier to the extent automobile owning rates are a lot lower in Russia, diesel cars are much less popular, and cities are much more designed for public transport. However the automobile fleet is a lot older, and drivers with pre-Euro 4 petrol automobiles will have more difficulty to afford to upgrade these. .

    The congestion charge was introduced almost twenty years ago and there have, so far, been no regional copycats, so we can hope the same happens with this

    This is a regional copycat of other European cities. My question is what would be your solution of traffic pollution? I don’t have asthma (although I have a sibling with severe asthma), and my lungs are healthy, and yet I still find it noticeably unpleasant to breath the air in a lot of cities.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    New York just approved congestion pricing also.
    , @g2k
    My suggestion is that the limits for nox and particulates are now being ratcheted down to levels where it's becoming impractical to do much more about it, these are acts of desperation, and that people ought to be realistic about city life. Afaik tyre and brake dust alone would put certain london streets over the limit. This will kill classic car culture if its widely copycatted regionally without exemptions for them (my own personal beef with it) which, thanks to communism, is going to be less of an issue in Russia. * Logburners/fires are another thing on the hitlist, though I've noticed little outrage about the haze of bbq/shashlyk restaurant smoke on summers days (the ladders part of green lanes actually has reduced visibility) and air quality on the underground.


    *For moscow to copy this while places like norilsk and asbest still exist would be ridiculous.
  81. @LondonBob
    Can't understand why people don't believe all the climate hysteria, all their shrill claims over the past thirty years have such a great track record.

    https://www.apnews.com/bd45c372caf118ec99964ea547880cd0

    The PR people usually are known for exxagerations. You really should not use press releases as a argument against climate scientists.

  82. @reiner Tor
    He’s a rational wiki editor himself.

    Aww, that’s explains a lot. I should have ignored him, then.

    But I am really astonished at the level of mental gymnastics one would have to employ to believe that “zero heritable differences” should be a default hypothesis.

    BTW – I am quite sure I have mistaken the author of the paper on genetics of intelligence. Was it Woodley, or David P… forgot his name?

  83. @Dmitry
    It is only in central London from now. Expansion for passenger automobiles outside central London will be from October 2021.

    So this will delay and weaken the punishment on poorer people.

    Euro 4 emissions standard entered new automobiles in 2006.

    So currently, people who have a petrol automobile older than 2006 will be punished in central London/Westminster only.

    The expansion to all London will not be until autumn 2021 (if current Mayor of London is re-elected), so this should reduce the punishment (but also reduce the need for the policy), as by 2021, fewer people will be driving a petrol automobile older than 2006 anyway.

    The main impact of the policy will be the requirement for Euro 6 trucks and lorries. And Euro 6 requirement for diesel automobile.

    https://i.imgur.com/2FrY1T6.png


    -


    It will be interesting to see when (how many years in the future) this is copied in Russian cities. In relation to passenger cars, it is easier to the extent automobile owning rates are a lot lower in Russia, diesel cars are much less popular, and cities are much more designed for public transport. However the automobile fleet is a lot older, and drivers with pre-Euro 4 petrol automobiles will have more difficulty to afford to upgrade these. .


    The congestion charge was introduced almost twenty years ago and there have, so far, been no regional copycats, so we can hope the same happens with this
     
    This is a regional copycat of other European cities. My question is what would be your solution of traffic pollution? I don't have asthma (although I have a sibling with severe asthma), and my lungs are healthy, and yet I still find it noticeably unpleasant to breath the air in a lot of cities.

    New York just approved congestion pricing also.

  84. @Mikhail

    Why ‘certainly‘ for Crimea, and ‘probably‘ for Kosovo? Since Kosovo happened first, establishing a precedent for redrawing borders by force, and was violent – massive bombing of Serb infrastructure with over 1k civilians killed, we should reverse the qualifiers.
     
    Don't forget northern Cyrprus which has some closer aspects to Crimea than Kosovo.

    I agree, North Cyprus is a closer analogy. One difference in the Cyprus case was that there was not even an administrative boundary in Cyprus – a new line was drawn out of thin air.

    Crimea case is much stronger in legal terms: it had autonomy and Crimean parliament, clear separation from the rest of Ukraine, and a referendum. In Cyprus and Kosovo cases the change of border was done purely by force.

    • Replies: @216
    Presume the PRC wants the US out of Guantanamo Bay Cuba, and the base for itself.

    Do you flood the base with "asylum seekers" and expect the Marines to not fire on them?

    In the confusion unmarked Cuban Army sneaks in, detains the Marines and ships them out, similar to Sevastopol.
  85. @AP
    Will be there in June. Is House of Terror worth it? I want to show the kids the horrors of communism.

    The problem with Berlin is that it isn't really all that beautiful. A big city with a lot going on.

    I want to show the kids the horrors of communism.

    Show them the clusterfuck that is the “nation” of Ukraine. That would be horror enough.

    • Replies: @AP
    They enjoyed Ukraine very much. Lviv is a beautiful city with great food. The chocolate cafes are remembered after many years.

    I visited in 1990 - my impression was very different. Squalor, everything falling apart. A different Sovok world.
  86. @Mikhail

    Why ‘certainly‘ for Crimea, and ‘probably‘ for Kosovo? Since Kosovo happened first, establishing a precedent for redrawing borders by force, and was violent – massive bombing of Serb infrastructure with over 1k civilians killed, we should reverse the qualifiers.
     
    Don't forget northern Cyrprus which has some closer aspects to Crimea than Kosovo.

    Don’t forget northern Cyrprus which has some closer aspects to Crimea than Kosovo.

    The closest case is the annexation of Goa by India

    • Replies: @Beckow

    ...annexation of Goa by India
     
    That's an interesting analogy. I agree, similar...
    , @216
    The Argentines expected the Goa precedent would be followed with the Falklands.
  87. @Anonymous
    Regarding your travel post on Twitter:

    I would probably go to Berlin just for its cultural-historical significance, but having just visited Budapest I can tell you it's a lovely place. Dirtier and shabbier than most Western European cities of course, but a fascinating place, quirky and eccentric, very affordable, and with the best quality of food of any country I have visited (including, inter alia, France, Italy and Japan). People told me the place was rackety, too many gypsies on the streets running scams...maybe I was just incredibly lucky but I saw pretty much 0 of this the whole trip. Overall highly recommended (watch out for the House of Terror though; a few comments in the guestbook were from your countrymen criticizing the Russophobia of the exhibit haha).

    I am pretty certain its going to be Prague now.

    I can’t be bothered doing Berlin now, while I’ll do Budapest later this summer (I get to stay free 1-2 weeks in Vienna at a friends vacant apartment, Budapest – and Bratislava, maybe I could meet up with Beckow too – is 2 hours away by bus I hear).

    • Replies: @Beckow
    It takes 1 hour on RegioJet bus - best connection, takes you to city center.

    Let me know when.
  88. @bb.
    the results from the paper on CS skills seem highly off. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that students in the US are better trained at taking the “Major Field Test” suite of assessments designed by Educational Testing Service (ETS), a US non profit presumably based on US curricula and methodologies?

    Take for comparison the International Olympiad in Informatics or International Collegiate Programming Contest via wiki

    IOI>
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Olympiad_in_Informatics#All_Time_Medal_Table

    gold silv bron total
    1 China (CHN) 81 26 12 119
    2 Russia (RUS) 58 38 12 108
    3 United States (USA) 49 34 16 99
    4 Poland (POL) 40 39 30 109
    5 South Korea (KOR) 39 38 26 103
    6 Romania (ROM) 30 48 29 107
    7 Bulgaria (BUL) 26 41 37 104
    8 Slovakia (SVK) 24 37 32 93
    9 Iran (IRN) 23 54 23 100
    10 Japan (JPN) 22 21 10 53
    Totals (10 nations) 392 376 227 995

    ICPC>
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Collegiate_Programming_Contest#Winners

    Winner Country Most Recent Win No.of Yrs Participated
    17 United States 1997 36
    14 Russia 2019
    4 China 2011
    2 Poland 2007
    2 Canada 1999
    1 Czech Republic 1998
    1 Germany 1995
    1 Australia 1992
    1 New Zealand 1990

    Yes, I know, Russia (and EE) do much better on these international programming competitions.

    OTOH, as I have pointed out before, there’s presumably more of an incentive for them to do very well in them (e.g. chance of an offer from Google).

  89. @gate666
    yet you have no problem with global warming deniers.

    Projection.

    Incidentally, not many people on my blog are AGW deniers. We are a cut or three above Breitbart.

    Moreover, people do not generally get fired for denying AGW. They do for espousing HBD realism.

  90. @Anonymous
    More lies as usual. You're alt-right - all your crazy views are mainstream alt-right positions, but since that label has become rather toxic out of shame or embarrassment you now prefer the "alt-center" label. In 2017 you even posted you were introducing the alt-right to Russians:

    "My own modest aims are twofold. First, I want to help introduce the Alt Right to Russian nationalists, and vice versa."

    And that alt-right websites publish your articles:

    "Russia Insider has good relations with AltRight.com, and they reprint my articles semi-regularly (with my permission)."

    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Anatoly_Karlin#Alt_right

    So the claim "I never identified myself with the Alt Right" is demonstrably false and laughable.

    I explicitly denied being Alt Right as early as 2016 you complete tosser.

  91. @AP
    I'm not familiar enough with "HBD" to comment on it, but actually Blank Slatism is the non-scientific creationism:

    https://quillette.com/2018/12/11/progressive-creationism-a-review-of-a-dangerous-idea/

    I can’t believe you’ve been commenting on this website for years and are not familiar enough with HBD to comment it.

    Steve Sailer invented the term for christsakes! 🙂

    • Replies: @AP
    I'm mostly here for the eastern European politics/history. I know what HBD stands for and that it deals with human biological differences, and agree with the banal observations that differences do exist, but do not know enough about the particulars of HBD to comment.
  92. Anonymous[151] • Disclaimer says:
    @AP
    Will be there in June. Is House of Terror worth it? I want to show the kids the horrors of communism.

    The problem with Berlin is that it isn't really all that beautiful. A big city with a lot going on.

    I would recommend it, yeah. It has a lurid, immersive quality and an ambience that is quite unique, like if you took a guy who designs Haunted Houses and tasked him with building a museum. Matra’s comment about having to pick up a piece of paper in each room to read the English explanation is still the case (I think there may be an audio guide but when I was there they ran out); I was carrying a big sheaf of papers by the end of it. Also it was kind of crowded but not too excessive imo. I defer to reiner Tor on the historical accuracy.

    Budapest has a lot of quirky attractions: Hospital in the Rock, for example, is definitely worth checking out imo. I also wanted to go on the Children’s Railroad but I waited until the last day of my trip and it ended up being closed. The Capital Circus is different but very cool. It all kind of fits with the slightly eccentric nature of the country imo.

    • Replies: @AP
    Thank you! I will only be there for 2 days (mostly I am visiting Austria and southern Germany but plane tickets to Budapest for four are much cheaper, so why not see a city I haven't see before).
  93. @reiner Tor

    Is House of Terror worth it?
     
    I was there around 2003. It took maybe a couple hours to go through it, so it isn't very big. Its view of history is not very accurate, but I think they don't contain explicitly false statements, only the implications are sometimes off a bit.

    The building itself is symbolic because after 1937 it was the headquarters of the Arrow Cross Party (it's often dubbed "the Hungarian Nazi party," but actually it only represented a "socialist" and populist wing of the far right, with no connections to the real corridors of power until in October 1944 the Germans helped them to power as a last, desperate measure to keep Hungary on their side in the war), and after the coup against Horthy (when he tried to make a separate peace on October 15, 1944) its cellars became a kind of prison of lawless Arrow Cross militias. Even during the siege of Budapest (while the city was encircled), until in January 1945 the Red Army captured it. The Arrow Cross leader, Szálasi dubbed it the "House of Loyalty."

    In 1945, the building didn't suffer much destruction, had a number of suitable offices, still had its cellars which could be used as a prison (though those would be expanded later to include most of the cellars of neighboring buildings as well...), and as a former Arrow Cross Party building, it was administratively easy to seize it. Besides such practical considerations, the (Jewish) leader of the new secret police specifically asked for this building for symbolic reasons, too. So the new Political Department of the new "democratic" police (already under communist party command from the beginning) set up its headquarters there.

    So the first half of the museum deals with Nazi atrocities (mostly in Hungary), but it's not very proportional in a sense, as most of it deals with the atrocities committed by after October 15, 1944, while most people killed by the Nazis and their collaborators were killed between April and early July 1944: these were the Jews deported to Auschwitz, but this is only mentioned in passing, at least that was the case in 2003. Anyway, the museum is to a large extent about the building (but it's also not spelled out, so they deal with lots of stuff which happened outside or unconnected to the building), so maybe that's not a problem, except if you want to learn history from it, and don't pay attention to the fine details.

    Then there's a room called "the changing of clothes," which shows an Arrow Cross militia uniform and then a communist political police uniform. It implies that many Arrow Cross militia members simply went over to the communist political police, but nothing could be further from the truth: the communist secret policemen were mostly Jewish, and even those who weren't, had nothing to do with the Arrow Cross or the pro-Nazi collaborators. (There were very few such cases, and even these people were later arrested.)

    One criticism against it was that while it glosses over (or just mentions in passing) most Nazi atrocities (in Hungary or elsewhere) before October 15, 1944 (on the grounds that those had nothing to do with the building itself), it dwells in details of communist oppression after the revolution in 1956 and similar things, which also had nothing to do with the building. (The political police, then called "State Protection Authority," collapsed during the revolution, and its new incarnations didn't use the building anymore, because they wanted to avoid being associated with the bad policies during the "cult of personality" in the early 1950s.) But maybe they have changed it since 2003.

    Anyway, I don't think it's worth to travel to Budapest for it, but if you're there for a week, then it's definitely worth visiting.

    Sounds like the sort of over the top, not entirely honest anti-Communism that could cause more intelligent/questioning people (e.g. AP’s children?) to sympathize with Communism.

  94. @Daniel Chieh
    Thanks, good to know that all differences in human populations stopped at the neck. They clearly didn't stop elsewhere:

    Ethnicity-Related Skeletal Muscle Differences Across the Lifespan

    Oliver D. Smith is a professional SJW who flings pedophilia accusations against the people he is obsessed with from his mom’s basement.

    (Not an exaggeration, a statement of fact).

    He does not deserve these effortpost responses.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Oh, I know. I've mocked the lolcow before, and he deserves it every time he shows his stupidity here.
  95. @Daniel Chieh
    The real question is if Mr. Karlin supports the Machine God and the Omnimessiah that is the Emperor, or the Holy Emperor and accepts His faithful followers of such Techenginseers who happen to follow an modified version of the Imperial Cult.

    Such differences are important.

    I am Cult Mechanicus all the way.

    • Replies: @Toronto Russian

    I am Cult Mechanicus all the way.
     
    Lol! For those unfamiliar with Warhammer, that's what it looks like.
    https://youtu.be/o0HiiZGle6c
  96. @szopen
    You are nut. Complete nutcase.

    "the default hypothesis is the null hypothesis, i.e. zero between-group heritability" This is absolutely extraordinary claim; because we know that heritability influences many other traits so the null hypothesis is that for any trait there should be some biological/inheritable differences (unless you are some kind of creationist who believes that psychological traits is somewhat not influenced by material world). You would need really good arguments to prove it's wrong, especially since analysis by e.g. Woodley of genetical variants assocaited with intelligence. Those analysis of course do not prove anything, but they surely they are compatible with null hypothesis (i.e what you should expect if you just think about about what should be consequences of evolution) and they are not compatible with blank slatism pseudo-scientific cult espoused by fanatics like you.

    Not to mention you are seemingly unironically quoting the most lunatic site on the internet. Come on! rationalwiki?? It's like quoting stormfront or something. Or Soviet Pravda.

    unironically quoting the most lunatic site on the internet. Come on! rationalwiki??

    He is the person who wrote a large percentage of those articles.

  97. I have been denounced by our friendly overlord, Ron Unz: http://www.unz.com/article/roosevelt-conspired-to-start-world-war-ii-in-europe/#comment-3145028

    Achievement unlocked.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Congratulations!

    Yes, I’d be quite cautious in taking any of the statements of “Thorfinnson” at face value. Maybe he believes what he is saying, but it’s quite likely that he doesn’t.
     
    So, which is it? :-)
  98. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    Here in the states, the brightest males and prettiest [white] females usually leave their hometowns for the centers of capital and [pop] culture - e.g. the East Coast urban area, etc, etc.

    The average 1930 valedictorian of DuBois, PA; Clarksville, TN; Mason City, IA; or so forth, was more likely to stay at home than leave. Today, they GO.

    So in addition to the general decline of femininity in America, we have a dramatic concentration of the best in a few areas to the detriment of the great elsewhere known as Flyover Country.

    TL;DR: There are a lot of non-Americans here in Karlin’s threads. I am genuinely curious if this phenomenon – of the brightest males and prettiest females being more and more dramatically concentrated in the centers – is more exaggerated in America than it is elsewhere.

    And, yes, I know stats would be helpful, but I don't have any.

    Add to that formerly under-the-radar mid-sized cities in flyover country that served as regional business hub for the state, such as Columbus, OH and Nashville, TN being the 2 most egregrious examples I can think of, have become “it” cities where people all over the US are currently flocking to (and this will be followed by immigrants soon, perhaps next decade). Of course, instead of assimilating into the existing cultures and being considerate of the reasons why they were relatively nice regional cities, they are displacing the former highly regional somewhat old-money cultures into generic bugmen monoculture based out of the East and West coasts.

    Likewise, the large cities in Texas have not an ounce of Texas culture in them. The only people with Texas accents are 50+ years old born/raised in a small town. Cities like Dallas, Houston, and Austin might as well be on the coast nowadays.

    Regional culture in the US is really becoming endangered. Its very difficult to find anyone under the age of 30 with a southern accent in major, or even regional, Southern cities anymore.

  99. @Anatoly Karlin
    I can't believe you've been commenting on this website for years and are not familiar enough with HBD to comment it.

    Steve Sailer invented the term for christsakes! :)

    I’m mostly here for the eastern European politics/history. I know what HBD stands for and that it deals with human biological differences, and agree with the banal observations that differences do exist, but do not know enough about the particulars of HBD to comment.

  100. @Thorfinnsson
    I have been denounced by our friendly overlord, Ron Unz: http://www.unz.com/article/roosevelt-conspired-to-start-world-war-ii-in-europe/#comment-3145028

    Achievement unlocked.

    Congratulations!

    Yes, I’d be quite cautious in taking any of the statements of “Thorfinnson” at face value. Maybe he believes what he is saying, but it’s quite likely that he doesn’t.

    So, which is it? 🙂

  101. @anonymous coward

    I want to show the kids the horrors of communism.
     
    Show them the clusterfuck that is the "nation" of Ukraine. That would be horror enough.

    They enjoyed Ukraine very much. Lviv is a beautiful city with great food. The chocolate cafes are remembered after many years.

    I visited in 1990 – my impression was very different. Squalor, everything falling apart. A different Sovok world.

  102. @Anatoly Karlin
    I am pretty certain its going to be Prague now.

    I can't be bothered doing Berlin now, while I'll do Budapest later this summer (I get to stay free 1-2 weeks in Vienna at a friends vacant apartment, Budapest - and Bratislava, maybe I could meet up with Beckow too - is 2 hours away by bus I hear).

    It takes 1 hour on RegioJet bus – best connection, takes you to city center.

    Let me know when.

  103. @melanf

    Don’t forget northern Cyrprus which has some closer aspects to Crimea than Kosovo.
     
    The closest case is the annexation of Goa by India

    …annexation of Goa by India

    That’s an interesting analogy. I agree, similar…

  104. @melanf

    Don’t forget northern Cyrprus which has some closer aspects to Crimea than Kosovo.
     
    The closest case is the annexation of Goa by India

    The Argentines expected the Goa precedent would be followed with the Falklands.

  105. @Anonymous
    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Anatoly_Karlin

    - Karlin: At what point did you get embarrassed about your past with the alt-right and try to deny this using the term "alt-center"? Was it when you realised you looked like a complete moron and sheeple who just parroted mainstream alt-right/white nationalist claims? Now want to try to present yourself as more heterodox and individualist? lol

    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Alt-center

    "Anatoly Karlin: Russian alt-right anti-Semitic blogger at The Unz Review who once shared a platform with white supremacist Richard Spencer and said he agrees with 70% of the alt-right, including HBD. He now completely avoids the alt-right label, and considers himself an alt-centrist."

    and said he agrees with 70% of the alt-right, including HBD.

    Ahh the evil HBD, funny how science just keeps smacking us in the face with examples of HBD but no matter the truth, it’s still the most evil of heresy to adherents of the egalitarian theology. The Latest: Evidence of New Human Species Found in Philippines
    Fossils unearthed in a limestone cavern part of a previously unknown human species that roamed the island about 50,000 years ago
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/evidence-of-new-human-species-found-in-philippines-11554915601

  106. @AaronB
    Well, yes. HBD is just a modern way of saying something that has been said many times down the centuries. There is nothing really new in it.

    The unique thing about HBD is that simply that it is more extreme than earlier versions. It does not appreciate environment or motivation. But that is because it is trying to be 'scientific', and is childish.

    As for white nationalism, its too abstract and theoretical to gain any serious momentum. But it's important to recognize the element if truth in white nationalism.

    European-derived people's are unique among the world's peoples in not having an ethnic identity to cling to. This is unbalanced and psychologically unhealthy.

    Of course, white nationalism is both too extreme and too abstract, but it is only a first clumsy attempt to remedy the lack. Its no wonder that it will make many mistakes, and actually come out of the same kind of abstract Enlightenment thinking that made them lose touch with their 'blood' ancestry in the first place.

    But restoring a sense if ethnic identity to Europeans, and thus bringing them into line with the whole rest of the world, need not be a sinister project, and is ultimately a benign one.

    The way to deal with white nationalism isn't to suppress it, but take seriously the useful and correct element in it and put it in more healthy and moderate forms.

    European-derived people’s are unique among the world’s peoples in not having an ethnic identity to cling to. This is unbalanced and psychologically unhealthy.

    Of course, white nationalism is both too extreme and too abstract, but it is only a first clumsy attempt to remedy the lack. Its no wonder that it will make many mistakes, and actually come out of the same kind of abstract Enlightenment thinking that made them lose touch with their ‘blood’ ancestry in the first place.

    But restoring a sense if ethnic identity to Europeans, and thus bringing them into line with the whole rest of the world, need not be a sinister project, and is ultimately a benign one.

    Once again proving how American you are.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    Not really. A "good European" identifies as little with his ethnic or racial group as a white American.

    He is a child of the Enlightenment, and believes in abstract "humanity".

    Its beginning to change, yes, but its not there yet.
  107. @Beckow
    I agree, North Cyprus is a closer analogy. One difference in the Cyprus case was that there was not even an administrative boundary in Cyprus - a new line was drawn out of thin air.

    Crimea case is much stronger in legal terms: it had autonomy and Crimean parliament, clear separation from the rest of Ukraine, and a referendum. In Cyprus and Kosovo cases the change of border was done purely by force.

    Presume the PRC wants the US out of Guantanamo Bay Cuba, and the base for itself.

    Do you flood the base with “asylum seekers” and expect the Marines to not fire on them?

    In the confusion unmarked Cuban Army sneaks in, detains the Marines and ships them out, similar to Sevastopol.

  108. If we are going to note ‘dubious’ territorial changes, few people bother to complain about the Indian take over of Sikkim or the Indonesian take over of West Papua.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    Or the Moroccan take over of West Sahara.
  109. Anatoly

    Can you write something about the latest series of Bellingcat reports by on Neo-Nazis in the Ukraine and their global inroads into American Alt-Right?
    https://www.bellingcat.com/author/oleksiykuzmenko/

    Also, what’s your take on these organizations:
    https://interregnum-intermarium.tumblr.com

  110. @Hyperborean

    European-derived people’s are unique among the world’s peoples in not having an ethnic identity to cling to. This is unbalanced and psychologically unhealthy.

    Of course, white nationalism is both too extreme and too abstract, but it is only a first clumsy attempt to remedy the lack. Its no wonder that it will make many mistakes, and actually come out of the same kind of abstract Enlightenment thinking that made them lose touch with their ‘blood’ ancestry in the first place.

    But restoring a sense if ethnic identity to Europeans, and thus bringing them into line with the whole rest of the world, need not be a sinister project, and is ultimately a benign one.
     
    Once again proving how American you are.

    Not really. A “good European” identifies as little with his ethnic or racial group as a white American.

    He is a child of the Enlightenment, and believes in abstract “humanity”.

    Its beginning to change, yes, but its not there yet.

    • Replies: @216
    European identity has been dissolved into "liberalism" in the minds of most elites. Anglo nations add the secondary factor of market capitalism. The US, the oddball, still has the militarism element utterly absent in the rest of the West.

    In the minds of the common person, there is still some attachment to the older identities, or to newer identies formed on the Interwebs. But the common person is also fiercely attached to consumerism.
    , @Mitleser
    American, please.

    Europe would not consist of dozens of nation states if ethnic identities there were as weak as the racial identities of white Americans.
  111. @Hyperborean
    If we are going to note 'dubious' territorial changes, few people bother to complain about the Indian take over of Sikkim or the Indonesian take over of West Papua.

    Or the Moroccan take over of West Sahara.

    • Replies: @216
    Just wait for the Trumpenreich's CANschluss.
    , @songbird
    The Tuareg don't have a presence in Morocco, but there have been at least 5 Tuareg rebellions since 1915. Last one was in 2012. Got more publicity because it involved Timbuktu, and the manuscripts there were in danger because of simultaneous radical Islamic fighters. Previous one was in 2007-2009.

    They have their own flag and want their own country in the Sahara.
    , @for-the-record
    Or the Moroccan take over of West Sahara.

    Quite a few people complained, notably the Polisario Front (supported by Algeria) which launched an armed conflict, and still controls near a quarter of the territory.
  112. @AaronB
    Not really. A "good European" identifies as little with his ethnic or racial group as a white American.

    He is a child of the Enlightenment, and believes in abstract "humanity".

    Its beginning to change, yes, but its not there yet.

    European identity has been dissolved into “liberalism” in the minds of most elites. Anglo nations add the secondary factor of market capitalism. The US, the oddball, still has the militarism element utterly absent in the rest of the West.

    In the minds of the common person, there is still some attachment to the older identities, or to newer identies formed on the Interwebs. But the common person is also fiercely attached to consumerism.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    Pretty much.
  113. @AaronB
    Not really. A "good European" identifies as little with his ethnic or racial group as a white American.

    He is a child of the Enlightenment, and believes in abstract "humanity".

    Its beginning to change, yes, but its not there yet.

    American, please.

    Europe would not consist of dozens of nation states if ethnic identities there were as weak as the racial identities of white Americans.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    Isn't there this little thing called the EU? Doesn't Brussels regulate the precise way you are supposed to prepare your cheese?

    Granted, I'm talking here about the elites, not the common people. But they are the "good Europeans".

    And obviously Eastern Europe isn't as advanced yet. I will admit that many ordinary people seem to hate other countries, but I guess ordinary Americans hate people from other states.
  114. @Mitleser
    Or the Moroccan take over of West Sahara.

    Just wait for the Trumpenreich’s CANschluss.

  115. @Mitleser
    American, please.

    Europe would not consist of dozens of nation states if ethnic identities there were as weak as the racial identities of white Americans.

    Isn’t there this little thing called the EU? Doesn’t Brussels regulate the precise way you are supposed to prepare your cheese?

    Granted, I’m talking here about the elites, not the common people. But they are the “good Europeans”.

    And obviously Eastern Europe isn’t as advanced yet. I will admit that many ordinary people seem to hate other countries, but I guess ordinary Americans hate people from other states.

    • Replies: @Mitleser

    Isn’t there this little thing called the EU? Doesn’t Brussels regulate the precise way you are supposed to prepare your cheese?
     
    You are confusing them with Italy.

    http://archive.fo/WfFhx

    Granted, I’m talking here about the elites, not the common people. But they are the “good Europeans”.
     
    You were talking about European people, not just the elite.

    But restoring a sense if ethnic identity to Europeans, and thus bringing them into line with the whole rest of the world, need not be a sinister project, and is ultimately a benign one.
     
  116. @216
    European identity has been dissolved into "liberalism" in the minds of most elites. Anglo nations add the secondary factor of market capitalism. The US, the oddball, still has the militarism element utterly absent in the rest of the West.

    In the minds of the common person, there is still some attachment to the older identities, or to newer identies formed on the Interwebs. But the common person is also fiercely attached to consumerism.

    Pretty much.

  117. these karlin open threads sure bring out the nuts.

    not as much as moon landing hoax threads though.

    imagine a karlin moon landing hoax thread though. whoa.

    • Replies: @anon

    moon landing hoax thread
     
    Of course there was no moon landing, because there is no moon. Wake up, sheeple, and look for "moon hologram", the truth is out there on youtube!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3axPn65MGM

  118. https://ww2.dk/Luftwaffe%20Research.html

    2016 paper presents the case that the Western and Mediterranean theaters had a decisively negative impact on the Luftwaffe earlier than is conventionally thought.

    Another nail in the coffin of the theory that the USSR alone vanquished Germany.

  119. @Anonymous
    I would recommend it, yeah. It has a lurid, immersive quality and an ambience that is quite unique, like if you took a guy who designs Haunted Houses and tasked him with building a museum. Matra's comment about having to pick up a piece of paper in each room to read the English explanation is still the case (I think there may be an audio guide but when I was there they ran out); I was carrying a big sheaf of papers by the end of it. Also it was kind of crowded but not too excessive imo. I defer to reiner Tor on the historical accuracy.

    Budapest has a lot of quirky attractions: Hospital in the Rock, for example, is definitely worth checking out imo. I also wanted to go on the Children's Railroad but I waited until the last day of my trip and it ended up being closed. The Capital Circus is different but very cool. It all kind of fits with the slightly eccentric nature of the country imo.

    Thank you! I will only be there for 2 days (mostly I am visiting Austria and southern Germany but plane tickets to Budapest for four are much cheaper, so why not see a city I haven’t see before).

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    There are only a few sights I'd recommend if you only spend there two days. One is the Castle district and especially the view from the Fishermen's Bastion (which was built in the 19th century), then maybe you can walk both banks of the Danube a little bit, Margit Bridge, the Széchenyi Chain Bridge (Lánchíd) and the Liberty Bridge (Szabadság híd, until 1945 Franz Joseph Bridge) might be worth walking through or at least taking a closer look at them (especially the Chain Bridge and the Liberty Bridge, the Margit or Margaret Bridge is only worth it if you want to have a walk on Margit Island, which is to a large extent covered by a nice park). Then I'd take Metro line #1 (yellow, also known as the Little Underground) along Andrássy Avenue, which is I think the oldest underground in Europe outside of the UK, all the stops are restored. Andrássy Avenue has the House of Terror museum, if you're interested in that, and it's a pretty nice avenue, with many nice places, but it's too long to walk, so I'd maybe get out of the Underground a few times, but mostly travel with it to Heroes' Square (Hősök tere), which looks pretty nice. Then there's a nice park behind it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sz%C3%A9chenyi_Chain_Bridge

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Bridge_(Budapest)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_Line_M1_(Budapest_Metro)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C5%91s%C3%B6k_tere

    I think one day should be more than enough for this. Then, yes, you can spend two weeks sightseeing, but if I only had two days, the second day I'd just walk the streets, enjoy the cafes, restaurants (I can recommend a few), and do nothing. Or you can visit a spa (I think you asked once). There are many good restaurants and cafes along the line of the Little Underground, so you can just walk or travel these distances at a leisurely pace.
  120. @reiner Tor

    Is House of Terror worth it?
     
    I was there around 2003. It took maybe a couple hours to go through it, so it isn't very big. Its view of history is not very accurate, but I think they don't contain explicitly false statements, only the implications are sometimes off a bit.

    The building itself is symbolic because after 1937 it was the headquarters of the Arrow Cross Party (it's often dubbed "the Hungarian Nazi party," but actually it only represented a "socialist" and populist wing of the far right, with no connections to the real corridors of power until in October 1944 the Germans helped them to power as a last, desperate measure to keep Hungary on their side in the war), and after the coup against Horthy (when he tried to make a separate peace on October 15, 1944) its cellars became a kind of prison of lawless Arrow Cross militias. Even during the siege of Budapest (while the city was encircled), until in January 1945 the Red Army captured it. The Arrow Cross leader, Szálasi dubbed it the "House of Loyalty."

    In 1945, the building didn't suffer much destruction, had a number of suitable offices, still had its cellars which could be used as a prison (though those would be expanded later to include most of the cellars of neighboring buildings as well...), and as a former Arrow Cross Party building, it was administratively easy to seize it. Besides such practical considerations, the (Jewish) leader of the new secret police specifically asked for this building for symbolic reasons, too. So the new Political Department of the new "democratic" police (already under communist party command from the beginning) set up its headquarters there.

    So the first half of the museum deals with Nazi atrocities (mostly in Hungary), but it's not very proportional in a sense, as most of it deals with the atrocities committed by after October 15, 1944, while most people killed by the Nazis and their collaborators were killed between April and early July 1944: these were the Jews deported to Auschwitz, but this is only mentioned in passing, at least that was the case in 2003. Anyway, the museum is to a large extent about the building (but it's also not spelled out, so they deal with lots of stuff which happened outside or unconnected to the building), so maybe that's not a problem, except if you want to learn history from it, and don't pay attention to the fine details.

    Then there's a room called "the changing of clothes," which shows an Arrow Cross militia uniform and then a communist political police uniform. It implies that many Arrow Cross militia members simply went over to the communist political police, but nothing could be further from the truth: the communist secret policemen were mostly Jewish, and even those who weren't, had nothing to do with the Arrow Cross or the pro-Nazi collaborators. (There were very few such cases, and even these people were later arrested.)

    One criticism against it was that while it glosses over (or just mentions in passing) most Nazi atrocities (in Hungary or elsewhere) before October 15, 1944 (on the grounds that those had nothing to do with the building itself), it dwells in details of communist oppression after the revolution in 1956 and similar things, which also had nothing to do with the building. (The political police, then called "State Protection Authority," collapsed during the revolution, and its new incarnations didn't use the building anymore, because they wanted to avoid being associated with the bad policies during the "cult of personality" in the early 1950s.) But maybe they have changed it since 2003.

    Anyway, I don't think it's worth to travel to Budapest for it, but if you're there for a week, then it's definitely worth visiting.

    I have not been to the one in Budapest, but what you describe is fairly typical for the various ‘communist’ bashing museums around the region. They overdo it. I would go further than say that they are ‘implying’ false things, they create the narratives intentionally, they lie consciously.

    One explanation is that they are meant to attract (or please) Western tourists who are always on a look-out for Gulag. In Prague there is a mini-statue with ‘7 martyrs’ hands‘ for the 1989 demonstrations – I have seen the local guides confirm to gullible Westerners (mostly Americans) that ‘indeed, they were victims of the communist terror‘. And well-fed tourists shudder in horror.

    Well, no – not a single person was killed in 1989, there was no shooting at all. But it makes the tourists reaffirm their view of the world, and the guides are pleased that they had pleased them, one has to be deferential to the fat ones. It is a weird dynamic, I suspect the Budapest museum works the same way.

  121. @Anonymous
    I've been asking this same question to HBDers for over 5 years:

    Even if your theory is scientific (it isn't, but pseudoscience), what use does it have? None.

    You cannot implement any HBD-based policy or law; secondly no one will vote on this issue, thirdly, aside from crackpots and basement dwellers no one has even heard of "HBD". It's a internet movement for weirdos like Anatoly Karlin. If you walked into your work office discussing this sort of thing you would get stared at. It's so divorced from everyday life and normality. Try getting some fresh air dude.

    Everything you people type on this website is regarded as literally insane to normal people. You cannot sell HBD to the ordinary public. So you losers are confined to the internet typing this HBD garbage on UNZ. lol

    losers are confined to the internet typing this HBD garbage on UNZ

    Says the guy who read this thread on UNZ and typed in a comment. Thank you for your input Anonymous[415].

  122. Anonymous[415] • Disclaimer says:
    @szopen
    You are nut. Complete nutcase.

    "the default hypothesis is the null hypothesis, i.e. zero between-group heritability" This is absolutely extraordinary claim; because we know that heritability influences many other traits so the null hypothesis is that for any trait there should be some biological/inheritable differences (unless you are some kind of creationist who believes that psychological traits is somewhat not influenced by material world). You would need really good arguments to prove it's wrong, especially since analysis by e.g. Woodley of genetical variants assocaited with intelligence. Those analysis of course do not prove anything, but they surely they are compatible with null hypothesis (i.e what you should expect if you just think about about what should be consequences of evolution) and they are not compatible with blank slatism pseudo-scientific cult espoused by fanatics like you.

    Not to mention you are seemingly unironically quoting the most lunatic site on the internet. Come on! rationalwiki?? It's like quoting stormfront or something. Or Soviet Pravda.

    Hello Mr. Looney-tunes.

    The null hypothesis was applied by the federal district court in Larry P. v. Riles. (1979) “simply holds that since no relationship between race [or population] and intelligence has been shown to exist, the absence of a relationship must be assumed.”

    While that was decades back, nothing has changed since then.

  123. @Anatoly Karlin
    Oliver D. Smith is a professional SJW who flings pedophilia accusations against the people he is obsessed with from his mom's basement.

    (Not an exaggeration, a statement of fact).

    He does not deserve these effortpost responses.

    Oh, I know. I’ve mocked the lolcow before, and he deserves it every time he shows his stupidity here.

  124. @Anatoly Karlin
    I am Cult Mechanicus all the way.

    I am Cult Mechanicus all the way.

    Lol! For those unfamiliar with Warhammer, that’s what it looks like.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWEH4sjqlmY

    "But you are an Abomination!"

    "I prefer honored guest..."
  125. @Mitleser
    Or the Moroccan take over of West Sahara.

    The Tuareg don’t have a presence in Morocco, but there have been at least 5 Tuareg rebellions since 1915. Last one was in 2012. Got more publicity because it involved Timbuktu, and the manuscripts there were in danger because of simultaneous radical Islamic fighters. Previous one was in 2007-2009.

    They have their own flag and want their own country in the Sahara.

  126. @Toronto Russian

    I am Cult Mechanicus all the way.
     
    Lol! For those unfamiliar with Warhammer, that's what it looks like.
    https://youtu.be/o0HiiZGle6c

    “But you are an Abomination!”

    “I prefer honored guest…”

  127. @prime noticer
    these karlin open threads sure bring out the nuts.

    not as much as moon landing hoax threads though.

    imagine a karlin moon landing hoax thread though. whoa.

    moon landing hoax thread

    Of course there was no moon landing, because there is no moon. Wake up, sheeple, and look for “moon hologram”, the truth is out there on youtube!

  128. @Alexander Turok
    "they have a much greater capacity for long term planning than western policy makers do."

    I doubt it. If they were forward-looking, they would have ditched the one child policy a long time ago.

    Its an interesting exploration into one of the major downsides of having powerful government agencies that might not occur right away to an observer – once such bureaus like the Family Planning Commission form, they are of course, dedicated to ensuring their continuation as it literally pays the bills for their members. In the same fashion, they will promote policies long after it is no longer necessary so they will continue to be.

    The typical axioms of the Iron Law of Bureaucracy apply, especially when it comes to government agencies where success is nebulously defined, and rarely correlated with any real performance.

  129. anon[113] • Disclaimer says:

    Alt-right these days is nothing than pure blackpill, doom, gloom and depression. “Trump sold us, Jews control everything, all is lost.”
    And they are not alone – if you watch radical left sites and accounts, there is the same despair “fascism is rising all over the world, Putin owns everyone, we are doomed.”

    https://twitter.com/WarAndWar2/status/1116103301244891136

    Is one of them right, both or neither?

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Everyone's losing, except the robots.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7xvqQeoA8c

    We've made ourselves gods, and terribly pathetic gods we've been.
    , @Anonymous
    Both the alt-right and the "radical left" of the Chapo Trap House type are fundamentally nihilistic movements composed of angry, depressive young men on the fringes of society. Really, to even call them "movements" is kind of overstating the case: they are mostly disorganized online subcultures that very occasionally coalesce as real-world phenomena. Compared to something like, say, the Yellow Vests, they are totally ineffectual (and I don't think the Yellow Vests have been all that effective themselves).

    Neoliberalism is still in full flower and will probably still carry the day: compared to every other ideology it is simply too intelligent, organized, energetic, efficient and determined to be easily defeated.

  130. @anon
    Alt-right these days is nothing than pure blackpill, doom, gloom and depression. "Trump sold us, Jews control everything, all is lost."
    And they are not alone - if you watch radical left sites and accounts, there is the same despair "fascism is rising all over the world, Putin owns everyone, we are doomed."

    https://twitter.com/WarAndWar2/status/1116103301244891136

    Is one of them right, both or neither?

    Everyone’s losing, except the robots.

    We’ve made ourselves gods, and terribly pathetic gods we’ve been.

  131. Hey, could anyone recommend me a definitive history (in English or Russian) of Hungary from 1000 AD to at least the 2000s?
    A quick search for “Hungarian History books” mostly yields brief summaries, Jewish histories, WW2, holocaust, Budapest under the Hapsburgs, and endless more Jewish stuff.

    • Replies: @DFH
    Millenium in Central Europe by Laszlo Kontler

    Norman Stone's book is quite good for the twentieth century as well.

    , @reiner Tor
    I haven't read any English language book about Hungary at all. But whenever I read references to Hungary, I get the impression that they are on average pretty inaccurate. It's mostly due to being out of date. I got the impression that perhaps reading Wikipedia might not be the worst English language source out there. Though I personally prefer reading paper books, so I could understand if you had a distaste for that.

    Though, at least there is a case where in Russian you could read probably at least as accurately as in Hungarian, or even more accurately: the findings of nomad Magyars' wanderings in Eastern Europe were discovered by Russian archaeologists, and apparently Hungarian archaeologists and historians only noticed it with several years (maybe a decade?) of delay. (The original Magyars seem to have come from the western side of the Ural mountain range, and apparently they had still been there a century before arriving in Hungary. So it was a pretty stationary population, which suddenly left, probably in the wake of a military defeat, and then within less than a century arrived in Hungary.)

    Were you the one who asked me about Gyurcsány which I forgot to answer?
  132. @Dmitry
    It is only in central London from now. Expansion for passenger automobiles outside central London will be from October 2021.

    So this will delay and weaken the punishment on poorer people.

    Euro 4 emissions standard entered new automobiles in 2006.

    So currently, people who have a petrol automobile older than 2006 will be punished in central London/Westminster only.

    The expansion to all London will not be until autumn 2021 (if current Mayor of London is re-elected), so this should reduce the punishment (but also reduce the need for the policy), as by 2021, fewer people will be driving a petrol automobile older than 2006 anyway.

    The main impact of the policy will be the requirement for Euro 6 trucks and lorries. And Euro 6 requirement for diesel automobile.

    https://i.imgur.com/2FrY1T6.png


    -


    It will be interesting to see when (how many years in the future) this is copied in Russian cities. In relation to passenger cars, it is easier to the extent automobile owning rates are a lot lower in Russia, diesel cars are much less popular, and cities are much more designed for public transport. However the automobile fleet is a lot older, and drivers with pre-Euro 4 petrol automobiles will have more difficulty to afford to upgrade these. .


    The congestion charge was introduced almost twenty years ago and there have, so far, been no regional copycats, so we can hope the same happens with this
     
    This is a regional copycat of other European cities. My question is what would be your solution of traffic pollution? I don't have asthma (although I have a sibling with severe asthma), and my lungs are healthy, and yet I still find it noticeably unpleasant to breath the air in a lot of cities.

    My suggestion is that the limits for nox and particulates are now being ratcheted down to levels where it’s becoming impractical to do much more about it, these are acts of desperation, and that people ought to be realistic about city life. Afaik tyre and brake dust alone would put certain london streets over the limit. This will kill classic car culture if its widely copycatted regionally without exemptions for them (my own personal beef with it) which, thanks to communism, is going to be less of an issue in Russia. * Logburners/fires are another thing on the hitlist, though I’ve noticed little outrage about the haze of bbq/shashlyk restaurant smoke on summers days (the ladders part of green lanes actually has reduced visibility) and air quality on the underground.

    *For moscow to copy this while places like norilsk and asbest still exist would be ridiculous.

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    people ought to be realistic about city life
     
    If you look at updating air pollution map, central London has moderately high pollution every evening. Sure it's better than some cities in China, Poland, etc.

    But it's also enough air pollution to be unpleasant (while categorized as only moderate air pollution by international standards).

    Cause of this air pollution is easy to prevent, and technological ability to stop it was already created more than 10 years ago.

    They just need some regulatory framework, to punish people who do not use the technology that prevents this form of air pollution. It will cost both government and private citizens - but at least it is all money which is expended on technology which benefits peoples' everyday experience and health.


    will kill classic car culture if its widely copycatted regionally without exemptions for them (my own personal beef with it)
     
    It will punish poor people who cannot drive new vehicles. But anyone with petrol automobile over Euro 4 and diesel automobile over Euro 6 is fine (the former is the majority of petrol drivers in the region, while the latter will be more for diesel drivers who can buy relatively new cars only).

    Logburners/fires are another thing on the hitlist, though I’ve noticed little outrage about the haze of bbq/shashlyk restaurant smoke on summers days
     
    Air pollution is cumulative, and these different types of pollution do not substitute for each other.

    You can remove traffic pollution, and you will still have other forms of pollution. But cumulative total of pollution will be less ceteris paribus.

    I would agree that banning shashlik smoke is a sensible punishment, for city behaviour - just as people do not now put sewage in the street and view putting sewage in the streets today as completely uncivilized, even though in the past this was common habit, as it still is in Africa and India.


    moscow to copy this while places like norilsk and asbest still exist would be ridiculous.
     
    Air pollution is cumulative.

    So in an industrial city like Chelyabinsk - traffic is not the worst cause of the air pollution. But improving the emissions standards of vehicles, will still reduce the cumulative amount of air pollution ceteris paribus.

    -

    I would agree, that air pollution from traffic is not the main priority ,in cities where faulty trains can cover the city in toxic bromine gas
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ2DDLlnRLk

  133. @Yevardian
    Hey, could anyone recommend me a definitive history (in English or Russian) of Hungary from 1000 AD to at least the 2000s?
    A quick search for "Hungarian History books" mostly yields brief summaries, Jewish histories, WW2, holocaust, Budapest under the Hapsburgs, and endless more Jewish stuff.

    Millenium in Central Europe by Laszlo Kontler

    Norman Stone’s book is quite good for the twentieth century as well.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    A CEU faculty. Though CEU is to a large extent a legitimate university (which is why it's so poisonous; being a caricature of Gender Studies only would render it harmless), so it could still be a good book.

    Also 20 years old, though if it's at the cutting edge of 1999 understanding of Hungarian history, it could, again, still be good.

    At least some of his co-authors seem to be pretty much conservatives or at least cuckservatives. No well-known leftist co-authors. So that's a good sign. Based on this:

    http://www.personal.ceu.edu/staff/Laszlo_Kontler/

  134. @Yevardian
    Hey, could anyone recommend me a definitive history (in English or Russian) of Hungary from 1000 AD to at least the 2000s?
    A quick search for "Hungarian History books" mostly yields brief summaries, Jewish histories, WW2, holocaust, Budapest under the Hapsburgs, and endless more Jewish stuff.

    I haven’t read any English language book about Hungary at all. But whenever I read references to Hungary, I get the impression that they are on average pretty inaccurate. It’s mostly due to being out of date. I got the impression that perhaps reading Wikipedia might not be the worst English language source out there. Though I personally prefer reading paper books, so I could understand if you had a distaste for that.

    Though, at least there is a case where in Russian you could read probably at least as accurately as in Hungarian, or even more accurately: the findings of nomad Magyars’ wanderings in Eastern Europe were discovered by Russian archaeologists, and apparently Hungarian archaeologists and historians only noticed it with several years (maybe a decade?) of delay. (The original Magyars seem to have come from the western side of the Ural mountain range, and apparently they had still been there a century before arriving in Hungary. So it was a pretty stationary population, which suddenly left, probably in the wake of a military defeat, and then within less than a century arrived in Hungary.)

    Were you the one who asked me about Gyurcsány which I forgot to answer?

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    Of course, I read Wikipedia a lot, but I always prefer physical books, and wiki articles even if informative, have to be written in a lifeless boilerplate style.

    Yeah, I had just discovered the notorious "Őszöd Speech" and how it seemingly triggered the total collapse of the Hungarian left. I've been practicing Hungarian recently as a hobby, and yes, I've got full knowledge that a more useless and difficult language is hard to find.

    I've lurked Akarlin and Glossy's blogs' since 2010, but I rarely bother commenting because the areas I know well enough to justify commenting on (Armenia, Iran, Romania and Australia) don't generate much interest here, so I'd rather not add to the growing number of useless commenters here.
  135. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jason Liu
    Wikipedia culture is leftist academic culture duplicated online. Many of the left-wing power users backing each other up are retired academics who can spend all day litigating against dissidents. Almost all are white. Since Wikipedia defers to media/academia sources, it automatically shifts left because the right controls neither of those institutions.

    Right wing attempts to create favorable wikis (Conservapedia, Metapedia, InfoGalactic) have failed because the right lacks social skills, can't organize worth a damn, and simply aren't as dedicated. Otherwise slandering your enemies by SEO is an excellent idea.

    Baidu Baike is trash compared to Wikipedia, but sometimes I'm grateful that it's (loosely) monitored by the CCP and not allowed to turn into an complete equalist shitfest.

    Peter Frost has a habit of overreaching. I'm not delusional about every Chinese being nationalistic, but China's not gonna take a large number of African immigrants.

    Frost is projecting and showing extreme Shadenfreaud here.

    What he is really saying is that the West was destroyed by immigration from 3rd world countries. So will China please do the same thing so I can feel better about myself?

    I have no doubt China will see a large influx of Africans, the whole world will with Africa’s population boom. But to say that China will be swamped out by blacks is ridiculous.

    • Replies: @Peter Frost
    "What he is really saying is that the West was destroyed by immigration from 3rd world countries. So will China please do the same thing so I can feel better about myself?"

    No, that's not my motive.

    "But to say that China will be swamped out by blacks is ridiculous"

    Swamped out? No, but neither is France. I'm saying that the demographic situation in China is more precarious than what most people think, including the Chinese.

    - the total fertility rate is much lower than what the official statistics state. It's probably about one child per woman and may even be lower. This would be consistent with what we see in Taiwan and in the Chinese communities of Singapore and Malaysia.

    - the number of Chinese women of childbearing age is proportionately much less than the total Chinese population. This is due partly to aging of the population and partly to the imbalanced sex ratio. Moreover, this number is already shrinking and will shrink at a faster rate than the total population.

    - the African influx into Asia has already begun: "These connections have, in recent years, led to a sharp increase in the number of Africans immigrating to and working in Malaysia. With more traditional destinations in Europe restricting access in the wake of the regional migrant crisis, Africans are turning to Asia for opportunities. To this end, 25,467 Africans were granted student visas in 2012, with more than 70,000 Africans moving to Malaysia in the same year. Figures for 2013 - the most recent available data - show over 79,000 Africans entering the country."

    https://www.asiabyafrica.com/point-a-to-a/africans-malaysia-racism

    - In the case of China, there are already large African communities in Guangzhou and Hong Kong. No one really knows how large these communities are because most of the people in question have no legal status in the country.

    "I’m not delusional about every Chinese being nationalistic, but China’s not gonna take a large number of African immigrants."

    Young, university-educated Chinese have largely assimilated Western norms. Even older Chinese are "nationalistic" only in a cultural sense. Many of them would be flattered by the idea of foreigners moving to China and assimilating into the Chinese way of life. In any case, it's important to distinguish between what policy makers expect and what eventually will happen. If you read the mainstream media, there's very little awareness of the "world's most important graph." Don't fall into the trap of thinking that others are as situationally aware as you are.

    In this respect, one should not underestimate the naivete of Chinese policy makers. Historically, China was a country of emigration, not immigration. Immigration to China is recent and generally seen as a positive development. In addition, Chinese authorities will be reluctant to do anything that may alienate African countries, which supply a growing share of China's raw materials.

  136. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bobby007
    China may introduce "1+ Child Policy". Parents who have less than 2 kids would have lower "social credit scores".
    Connecting the Social Credit System with fertility problems may work... I think it's the only way.

    It actually might be better for Chinas population to slow down being that automation will make so many people redundant.

    Going from 1.3 million to even half that population would still be a lot of people and it might make their society more stable.

    Meanwhile in the west….

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    Automation does not make people redundant.

    After all, who are going to be the end consumers of automated production?
  137. @DFH
    Millenium in Central Europe by Laszlo Kontler

    Norman Stone's book is quite good for the twentieth century as well.

    A CEU faculty. Though CEU is to a large extent a legitimate university (which is why it’s so poisonous; being a caricature of Gender Studies only would render it harmless), so it could still be a good book.

    Also 20 years old, though if it’s at the cutting edge of 1999 understanding of Hungarian history, it could, again, still be good.

    At least some of his co-authors seem to be pretty much conservatives or at least cuckservatives. No well-known leftist co-authors. So that’s a good sign. Based on this:

    http://www.personal.ceu.edu/staff/Laszlo_Kontler/

  138. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mitleser

    Yeah, I think Frost is way off the mark on that one.
     

    Economically, China is doing better than what many skeptics have been predicting. That's what bothers me. How will the Chinese business community react when they have to start bidding up the price of labor? Will they react like our own business leaders?
     
    http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2019/03/autumn-in-china.html?showComment=1553735263656#c5507685063672774206

    Is he wrong?
    The Jap business responded to the labor shortage in their country by pushing for more immigration.

    Japan is heavily “guided” by the west.

    China not so much.

  139. @reiner Tor
    I haven't read any English language book about Hungary at all. But whenever I read references to Hungary, I get the impression that they are on average pretty inaccurate. It's mostly due to being out of date. I got the impression that perhaps reading Wikipedia might not be the worst English language source out there. Though I personally prefer reading paper books, so I could understand if you had a distaste for that.

    Though, at least there is a case where in Russian you could read probably at least as accurately as in Hungarian, or even more accurately: the findings of nomad Magyars' wanderings in Eastern Europe were discovered by Russian archaeologists, and apparently Hungarian archaeologists and historians only noticed it with several years (maybe a decade?) of delay. (The original Magyars seem to have come from the western side of the Ural mountain range, and apparently they had still been there a century before arriving in Hungary. So it was a pretty stationary population, which suddenly left, probably in the wake of a military defeat, and then within less than a century arrived in Hungary.)

    Were you the one who asked me about Gyurcsány which I forgot to answer?

    Of course, I read Wikipedia a lot, but I always prefer physical books, and wiki articles even if informative, have to be written in a lifeless boilerplate style.

    Yeah, I had just discovered the notorious “Őszöd Speech” and how it seemingly triggered the total collapse of the Hungarian left. I’ve been practicing Hungarian recently as a hobby, and yes, I’ve got full knowledge that a more useless and difficult language is hard to find.

    I’ve lurked Akarlin and Glossy’s blogs’ since 2010, but I rarely bother commenting because the areas I know well enough to justify commenting on (Armenia, Iran, Romania and Australia) don’t generate much interest here, so I’d rather not add to the growing number of useless commenters here.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    “Őszöd Speech”
     
    It wasn't just the speech itself.

    Gyurcsány came to power in 2004 as a result of an intra-party coup (a group of Socialist notabilities helped by the Free Democrat coalition partners), and then he immediately started to increase the budget deficit to unprecedented levels. It was a big problem for the economy because the Socialist government had already increased deficit spending to very high levels right after in 2002 they managed to eke out a small victory over Orbán, and Orbán had already increased spending right before the election. (This increase was relatively small actually, but was constantly blamed by the socialists for the higher deficit years later.) Gyurcsány also cut the (admittedly very high) VAT from 25% to just 20%. He privatized the Budapest Airport in a questionable deal (indirectly it led to the later bankruptcy of the national airlines) and wasted the amount immediately. The socialists also built many highways at exorbitant prices. (Hungary is a totally flat country with very few and short mountains, and yet famously their highways included a large viaduct and a number of tunnels, to overcome some very small hills. People were outraged at this kind of waste.)

    All this resulted in Hungary having the lowest economic growth and by far the highest budget deficit of all ex-communist EU member states (or probably even including non-EU members like Serbia; perhaps even Ukraine performed better than Hungary 2002-2008).

    Gyurcsány managed to win the elections in 2006, which marked a low point in Orbán's popularity. There was even a chance that he'd lose control of his party.

    The Őszöd Speech was a secret speech told to a gathering of Socialist MPs in May, right after the election had been won. Gyurcsány tried to get support for his new policies cutting the budget deficit. This included raising VAT back to 23% (now in the wake of the 2008 crisis it's still higher), less than half a year after it had been cut, and several similar measures were taken. Because they were reluctant to cut gibsmedats, most measures pointed to raising the already very high tax rates, besides the already mentioned VAT it included health insurance fees (basically it was already a health tax before, but now they transformed it fully into a tax with no maximum amount to be paid and increased rates), the pension contributions (again, basically a pension tax, they made away with the maximum limit and increased the rates), and they also raised the already very high (even in Western European comparison) marginal personal income tax rates (which kicked in already not much higher than the average income).

    Since Gyurcsány won on a platform of having given lots of gibsmedats, lowering VAT, and promising more of the same and a bright economic future, ridiculing Fidesz statements about the horrible state of the economy, he found himself already in a very difficult situation when he tried to introduce "reforms" (basically a huge austerity package).

    Against this background, the Őszöd Speech came like a bombshell: it was basically an admission of guilt, that he knowingly destroyed the Hungarian economy only to win the election. It sounded like an extremely cynical policy, and though I don't think Gyurcsány was that cynical (he was simply not very self-aware), his whole policy certainly was cynical to the extreme: making the economy extremely vulnerable, destroying economic growth and long term prospects, only to win one election. (Though he probably expected to be able to win again in 2010 after a couple years of austerity in 2006-7. He didn't understand that when you have a budget deficit in excess of 10% of GDP, you cannot quickly reign in on that. He also didn't understand the risks of a global recession, though in all fairness no one expected the Great Recession.)

    The speech contained sentences easy to quote, like "we lied in the morning, at night and in the evening" (during the 1956 revolution a - by then formerly - communist half-Jewish writer said in the radio that "we lied during the night, we lied during daylight, on all wavelengths," Gyurcsány probably quoted from it), it contained lots of equally quotable cuss words (e.g. "ez a kurva ország" - literally "this whore country," in English I'd perhaps say "fucking country," or "elkúrtuk" - "we fucked it up"; the former was often quoted to depict what he thinks of Hungary, the latter was chanted during protests "you fucked it up!"), and so it led to riots.

    Had Gyurcsány resigned at this point and called snap elections, Orbán would've become prime minister in early 2007, but with no supermajority, and probably he'd have lost an election since then - most likely he wouldn't have survived more than one election cycle, since the financial crisis and the Great Recession arrived in 2008, and would've destroyed Orbán's hopes of a reelection. Instead, Gyurcsány clung to power, but then was forced to resign in early 2009 after the financial crisis and IMF package destroyed the rest of his support. At this point they could still have avoided a Fidesz supermajority, had they called snap election in early 2009, but instead they searched for a new prime minister. (It became like a parody, so many candidates' names were leaked to the press only to deny that they ever wanted to become prime ministers - everyone understood being a Socialist premier was toxic at this point; it was extremely ridiculous, people were sending around text messages like "Hi, I'm Ferenc Gyurcsany, prime minister of Hungary. Would you like to be the next prime minister? If not, please forward this text to someone.") Finally they found a globalist technocrat (who later chose a career as CEO of a French company over Hungarian politics), a then government minister, for the job. (Ridiculously enough the Socialist Party congress sang the International with this globalist ex- and soon-to-be CEO on stage, he was visibly embarrassed...) But this last year of constant austerity finally pushed Orbán to a supermajority.

  140. @AaronB
    Isn't there this little thing called the EU? Doesn't Brussels regulate the precise way you are supposed to prepare your cheese?

    Granted, I'm talking here about the elites, not the common people. But they are the "good Europeans".

    And obviously Eastern Europe isn't as advanced yet. I will admit that many ordinary people seem to hate other countries, but I guess ordinary Americans hate people from other states.

    Isn’t there this little thing called the EU? Doesn’t Brussels regulate the precise way you are supposed to prepare your cheese?

    You are confusing them with Italy.

    http://archive.fo/WfFhx

    Granted, I’m talking here about the elites, not the common people. But they are the “good Europeans”.

    You were talking about European people, not just the elite.

    But restoring a sense if ethnic identity to Europeans, and thus bringing them into line with the whole rest of the world, need not be a sinister project, and is ultimately a benign one.

  141. Mike Pompeo when questioned on the differences between the Golan Heights and Crimea:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/11/golan-heights-crimea-pompeo-us-state-department

  142. @Anonymous
    It actually might be better for Chinas population to slow down being that automation will make so many people redundant.

    Going from 1.3 million to even half that population would still be a lot of people and it might make their society more stable.

    Meanwhile in the west....

    Automation does not make people redundant.

    After all, who are going to be the end consumers of automated production?

  143. @Anonymous
    "Blank slatism" is a straw man invented by the alt-right.

    Yeah, I know. I really hate that alt-right crypto-fascist Steven Pinker. That whole handsome, charismatic, liberal Jew thing is just to pool the wool over the eyes of the normies.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Pinker isn't alt-right, but an "entry-point" to the alt-right (similar to Jordan Peterson) since he's sympathetic to some of their views, particularly anti-feminism and HBD/hereditarianism pseudoscience, and is commonly quoted or cited by alt-righters. Furthermore, he's associated with many in the alt-right and has shared a platform with them at conferences and events etc.

    https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-qZzII46Msew/WtqjmHSMSnI/AAAAAAAAJWQ/koh3UH0od-wongZ9fxqx6h0dZwVJY0pOACLcBGAs/s1600/evochart_v2.jpg

    https://www.mcclernan.com/2018/04/steven-pinkers-rightwing-alt-right-and.html
    https://www.mcclernan.com/2018/04/steven-pinker-quillette-and-trump.html
    https://www.mcclernan.com/2018/08/more-about-steves-pinker-sailer.html
    https://www.mcclernan.com/2018/08/is-it-fair-of-me-to-link-steven-pinker.html
    https://www.mcclernan.com/2018/07/steven-pinker-still-shilling-for-trashy.html
  144. @Yevardian
    Of course, I read Wikipedia a lot, but I always prefer physical books, and wiki articles even if informative, have to be written in a lifeless boilerplate style.

    Yeah, I had just discovered the notorious "Őszöd Speech" and how it seemingly triggered the total collapse of the Hungarian left. I've been practicing Hungarian recently as a hobby, and yes, I've got full knowledge that a more useless and difficult language is hard to find.

    I've lurked Akarlin and Glossy's blogs' since 2010, but I rarely bother commenting because the areas I know well enough to justify commenting on (Armenia, Iran, Romania and Australia) don't generate much interest here, so I'd rather not add to the growing number of useless commenters here.

    “Őszöd Speech”

    It wasn’t just the speech itself.

    Gyurcsány came to power in 2004 as a result of an intra-party coup (a group of Socialist notabilities helped by the Free Democrat coalition partners), and then he immediately started to increase the budget deficit to unprecedented levels. It was a big problem for the economy because the Socialist government had already increased deficit spending to very high levels right after in 2002 they managed to eke out a small victory over Orbán, and Orbán had already increased spending right before the election. (This increase was relatively small actually, but was constantly blamed by the socialists for the higher deficit years later.) Gyurcsány also cut the (admittedly very high) VAT from 25% to just 20%. He privatized the Budapest Airport in a questionable deal (indirectly it led to the later bankruptcy of the national airlines) and wasted the amount immediately. The socialists also built many highways at exorbitant prices. (Hungary is a totally flat country with very few and short mountains, and yet famously their highways included a large viaduct and a number of tunnels, to overcome some very small hills. People were outraged at this kind of waste.)

    All this resulted in Hungary having the lowest economic growth and by far the highest budget deficit of all ex-communist EU member states (or probably even including non-EU members like Serbia; perhaps even Ukraine performed better than Hungary 2002-2008).

    Gyurcsány managed to win the elections in 2006, which marked a low point in Orbán’s popularity. There was even a chance that he’d lose control of his party.

    The Őszöd Speech was a secret speech told to a gathering of Socialist MPs in May, right after the election had been won. Gyurcsány tried to get support for his new policies cutting the budget deficit. This included raising VAT back to 23% (now in the wake of the 2008 crisis it’s still higher), less than half a year after it had been cut, and several similar measures were taken. Because they were reluctant to cut gibsmedats, most measures pointed to raising the already very high tax rates, besides the already mentioned VAT it included health insurance fees (basically it was already a health tax before, but now they transformed it fully into a tax with no maximum amount to be paid and increased rates), the pension contributions (again, basically a pension tax, they made away with the maximum limit and increased the rates), and they also raised the already very high (even in Western European comparison) marginal personal income tax rates (which kicked in already not much higher than the average income).

    Since Gyurcsány won on a platform of having given lots of gibsmedats, lowering VAT, and promising more of the same and a bright economic future, ridiculing Fidesz statements about the horrible state of the economy, he found himself already in a very difficult situation when he tried to introduce “reforms” (basically a huge austerity package).

    Against this background, the Őszöd Speech came like a bombshell: it was basically an admission of guilt, that he knowingly destroyed the Hungarian economy only to win the election. It sounded like an extremely cynical policy, and though I don’t think Gyurcsány was that cynical (he was simply not very self-aware), his whole policy certainly was cynical to the extreme: making the economy extremely vulnerable, destroying economic growth and long term prospects, only to win one election. (Though he probably expected to be able to win again in 2010 after a couple years of austerity in 2006-7. He didn’t understand that when you have a budget deficit in excess of 10% of GDP, you cannot quickly reign in on that. He also didn’t understand the risks of a global recession, though in all fairness no one expected the Great Recession.)

    The speech contained sentences easy to quote, like “we lied in the morning, at night and in the evening” (during the 1956 revolution a – by then formerly – communist half-Jewish writer said in the radio that “we lied during the night, we lied during daylight, on all wavelengths,” Gyurcsány probably quoted from it), it contained lots of equally quotable cuss words (e.g. “ez a kurva ország” – literally “this whore country,” in English I’d perhaps say “fucking country,” or “elkúrtuk” – “we fucked it up”; the former was often quoted to depict what he thinks of Hungary, the latter was chanted during protests “you fucked it up!”), and so it led to riots.

    Had Gyurcsány resigned at this point and called snap elections, Orbán would’ve become prime minister in early 2007, but with no supermajority, and probably he’d have lost an election since then – most likely he wouldn’t have survived more than one election cycle, since the financial crisis and the Great Recession arrived in 2008, and would’ve destroyed Orbán’s hopes of a reelection. Instead, Gyurcsány clung to power, but then was forced to resign in early 2009 after the financial crisis and IMF package destroyed the rest of his support. At this point they could still have avoided a Fidesz supermajority, had they called snap election in early 2009, but instead they searched for a new prime minister. (It became like a parody, so many candidates’ names were leaked to the press only to deny that they ever wanted to become prime ministers – everyone understood being a Socialist premier was toxic at this point; it was extremely ridiculous, people were sending around text messages like “Hi, I’m Ferenc Gyurcsany, prime minister of Hungary. Would you like to be the next prime minister? If not, please forward this text to someone.”) Finally they found a globalist technocrat (who later chose a career as CEO of a French company over Hungarian politics), a then government minister, for the job. (Ridiculously enough the Socialist Party congress sang the International with this globalist ex- and soon-to-be CEO on stage, he was visibly embarrassed…) But this last year of constant austerity finally pushed Orbán to a supermajority.

    • Replies: @Yevardian

     everyone understood being a Socialist premier was toxic at this point; it was extremely ridiculous, people were sending around text messages like “Hi, I’m Ferenc Gyurcsany, prime minister of Hungary. Would you like to be the next prime minister? If not, please forward this text to someone.”)
     
    LOL.


    Thanks a lot for that information, I had just noticed the details of the speech, I didn't realise it was made after Ferensc was elected, I assumed it was made immediately prior to their electoral defeat.

    When I found out about that speech, and now the details you described, it explains a lot about modern Hungary.
    I could never figure out why Hungary was virtually the only country in Europe where the left was so universally marginalised. Plenty of states went through Communism, and nothing in Hungary's recent history or self-image seemed particularly unique (retarded Turanist theories aside) or more naturally 'based' than its neighbours. I thought Triannon might be the reason, but as you've said several times, reversing that is an utter fantasy on par with Germany taking back Königsberg and Danzig.

    But then I was browsing Wikipedia without real direction on Hungary and found that speech and it all clicked.

    An aside on Turanism and similar crazes, a Hungarian I know and his Finnish wife were talking about how the Hungarian intelligentsia was obsessed with Finland, but the latter country barely knew Hungary existed. Apparently he had to study the Kavela as a compulsory subject and even translate some verses.
    , @Mikel

    e.g. “ez a kurva ország” – literally “this whore country,”
     
    How interesting that Hungarian uses loan words from its Slavic neighbors for profane expressions.

    Coincidentally or not, the same happens with Basque, another European language isolate. While talking in our native language, we swear using only Spanish (or French) words. The harshest insult I can think of in Basque is madarikatu (damned), which is also most likely derived from Latin.

    Our teachers at school used to tell us that this was a reflection of our higher moral character compared to our neighbors, especially those to the South. But this explanation is highly dubious because, regardless of the Spanish root of our curse words, we tend to swear very profusely. Almost at Polish or Irish levels, I'd say.
  145. @reiner Tor

    “Őszöd Speech”
     
    It wasn't just the speech itself.

    Gyurcsány came to power in 2004 as a result of an intra-party coup (a group of Socialist notabilities helped by the Free Democrat coalition partners), and then he immediately started to increase the budget deficit to unprecedented levels. It was a big problem for the economy because the Socialist government had already increased deficit spending to very high levels right after in 2002 they managed to eke out a small victory over Orbán, and Orbán had already increased spending right before the election. (This increase was relatively small actually, but was constantly blamed by the socialists for the higher deficit years later.) Gyurcsány also cut the (admittedly very high) VAT from 25% to just 20%. He privatized the Budapest Airport in a questionable deal (indirectly it led to the later bankruptcy of the national airlines) and wasted the amount immediately. The socialists also built many highways at exorbitant prices. (Hungary is a totally flat country with very few and short mountains, and yet famously their highways included a large viaduct and a number of tunnels, to overcome some very small hills. People were outraged at this kind of waste.)

    All this resulted in Hungary having the lowest economic growth and by far the highest budget deficit of all ex-communist EU member states (or probably even including non-EU members like Serbia; perhaps even Ukraine performed better than Hungary 2002-2008).

    Gyurcsány managed to win the elections in 2006, which marked a low point in Orbán's popularity. There was even a chance that he'd lose control of his party.

    The Őszöd Speech was a secret speech told to a gathering of Socialist MPs in May, right after the election had been won. Gyurcsány tried to get support for his new policies cutting the budget deficit. This included raising VAT back to 23% (now in the wake of the 2008 crisis it's still higher), less than half a year after it had been cut, and several similar measures were taken. Because they were reluctant to cut gibsmedats, most measures pointed to raising the already very high tax rates, besides the already mentioned VAT it included health insurance fees (basically it was already a health tax before, but now they transformed it fully into a tax with no maximum amount to be paid and increased rates), the pension contributions (again, basically a pension tax, they made away with the maximum limit and increased the rates), and they also raised the already very high (even in Western European comparison) marginal personal income tax rates (which kicked in already not much higher than the average income).

    Since Gyurcsány won on a platform of having given lots of gibsmedats, lowering VAT, and promising more of the same and a bright economic future, ridiculing Fidesz statements about the horrible state of the economy, he found himself already in a very difficult situation when he tried to introduce "reforms" (basically a huge austerity package).

    Against this background, the Őszöd Speech came like a bombshell: it was basically an admission of guilt, that he knowingly destroyed the Hungarian economy only to win the election. It sounded like an extremely cynical policy, and though I don't think Gyurcsány was that cynical (he was simply not very self-aware), his whole policy certainly was cynical to the extreme: making the economy extremely vulnerable, destroying economic growth and long term prospects, only to win one election. (Though he probably expected to be able to win again in 2010 after a couple years of austerity in 2006-7. He didn't understand that when you have a budget deficit in excess of 10% of GDP, you cannot quickly reign in on that. He also didn't understand the risks of a global recession, though in all fairness no one expected the Great Recession.)

    The speech contained sentences easy to quote, like "we lied in the morning, at night and in the evening" (during the 1956 revolution a - by then formerly - communist half-Jewish writer said in the radio that "we lied during the night, we lied during daylight, on all wavelengths," Gyurcsány probably quoted from it), it contained lots of equally quotable cuss words (e.g. "ez a kurva ország" - literally "this whore country," in English I'd perhaps say "fucking country," or "elkúrtuk" - "we fucked it up"; the former was often quoted to depict what he thinks of Hungary, the latter was chanted during protests "you fucked it up!"), and so it led to riots.

    Had Gyurcsány resigned at this point and called snap elections, Orbán would've become prime minister in early 2007, but with no supermajority, and probably he'd have lost an election since then - most likely he wouldn't have survived more than one election cycle, since the financial crisis and the Great Recession arrived in 2008, and would've destroyed Orbán's hopes of a reelection. Instead, Gyurcsány clung to power, but then was forced to resign in early 2009 after the financial crisis and IMF package destroyed the rest of his support. At this point they could still have avoided a Fidesz supermajority, had they called snap election in early 2009, but instead they searched for a new prime minister. (It became like a parody, so many candidates' names were leaked to the press only to deny that they ever wanted to become prime ministers - everyone understood being a Socialist premier was toxic at this point; it was extremely ridiculous, people were sending around text messages like "Hi, I'm Ferenc Gyurcsany, prime minister of Hungary. Would you like to be the next prime minister? If not, please forward this text to someone.") Finally they found a globalist technocrat (who later chose a career as CEO of a French company over Hungarian politics), a then government minister, for the job. (Ridiculously enough the Socialist Party congress sang the International with this globalist ex- and soon-to-be CEO on stage, he was visibly embarrassed...) But this last year of constant austerity finally pushed Orbán to a supermajority.

     everyone understood being a Socialist premier was toxic at this point; it was extremely ridiculous, people were sending around text messages like “Hi, I’m Ferenc Gyurcsany, prime minister of Hungary. Would you like to be the next prime minister? If not, please forward this text to someone.”)

    LOL.

    Thanks a lot for that information, I had just noticed the details of the speech, I didn’t realise it was made after Ferensc was elected, I assumed it was made immediately prior to their electoral defeat.

    When I found out about that speech, and now the details you described, it explains a lot about modern Hungary.
    I could never figure out why Hungary was virtually the only country in Europe where the left was so universally marginalised. Plenty of states went through Communism, and nothing in Hungary’s recent history or self-image seemed particularly unique (retarded Turanist theories aside) or more naturally ‘based’ than its neighbours. I thought Triannon might be the reason, but as you’ve said several times, reversing that is an utter fantasy on par with Germany taking back Königsberg and Danzig.

    But then I was browsing Wikipedia without real direction on Hungary and found that speech and it all clicked.

    An aside on Turanism and similar crazes, a Hungarian I know and his Finnish wife were talking about how the Hungarian intelligentsia was obsessed with Finland, but the latter country barely knew Hungary existed. Apparently he had to study the Kavela as a compulsory subject and even translate some verses.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    Apparently he had to study the Kavela as a compulsory subject and even translate some verses.
     
    Kalevala was taught to us at both primary and high school.

    It's pretty unfortunate that all Finno-Ugric languages are distant relatives only, because at school they taught us the language similarities (like "house" is "ház" in Hungarian and "koti" in finnish - there's a system here, like many words ending in "-z" in Hungarian but "-ti" in Finnish etc.), but they don't sound very persuasive to most laypeople. While in the 1930s the far right was obsessed with Finland*, they are now obsessed with the most idiotic theories ever, like ancient Sumerians and Huns simultaneously being our ancestors.

    *We tried to send volunteers to Finland during the Winter War. 25,000 people volunteered, but after lots of screening 5,000 were accepted. Only one battalion was sent with the rest still receiving military training, but it took several weeks to travel around Europe, because Germany blocked them under the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. So by the time that one battalion arrived, and learned to ski (it was difficult for them), the war already ended.
    , @reiner Tor

    I could never figure out why Hungary was virtually the only country in Europe where the left was so universally marginalised.
     
    Yeah, they screwed up. Hungary is unfortunately not any more based than other former communist countries, and our upper middle class (my social class) is pretty hostile to Orbán. It's just that the left hasn't yet recovered, while Orbán still hasn't used up all his political capital. (I.e. he hasn't had to deal with a recession yet.) But given the extreme amount of corruption in his circles, he now generates way less devout following than back in the early 2000s, when he was much younger and his followers sang songs about Kossuth with Kossuth's name swapped for Orbán.

    To be honest, I have no idea what will happen once Orbán is gone. It's a bit similar to Putin.
    , @Jaakko Raipala
    Finns had a lot of interest in Hungary back in the late 19th and early 20th century. There was a whole big racial debate over whether a Finno-Ugric national project is at all viable with a lot of Germanic people in high positions insisting that Aryans (Indo-Europeans) must rule over us or it will all be disaster. The model of Hungary as an old European country was considered a killer argument on the side of Finns.

    Interest in Hungary collapsed after WWII when those Aryan racial theorists disappeared, Finns flooded the education system and took over from Germanic elites (which seems to have changed nothing at all here). Then Hungary was closed to right-wingers under communism and the 1956 uprising gave Hungarians a huge "reactionary" stigma among leftists.

    In the 1990s there were a bunch of Hungary fads here since travel was opened but it died down and our universities and media is now all about American imported poz so no one remembers Hungary (at this point most young Finns don't even know that Finno-Ugric languages are a thing, they just think we are white colonial oppressors who enslaved African-Americans like Nelson Mandela).
  146. @AP
    Thank you! I will only be there for 2 days (mostly I am visiting Austria and southern Germany but plane tickets to Budapest for four are much cheaper, so why not see a city I haven't see before).

    There are only a few sights I’d recommend if you only spend there two days. One is the Castle district and especially the view from the Fishermen’s Bastion (which was built in the 19th century), then maybe you can walk both banks of the Danube a little bit, Margit Bridge, the Széchenyi Chain Bridge (Lánchíd) and the Liberty Bridge (Szabadság híd, until 1945 Franz Joseph Bridge) might be worth walking through or at least taking a closer look at them (especially the Chain Bridge and the Liberty Bridge, the Margit or Margaret Bridge is only worth it if you want to have a walk on Margit Island, which is to a large extent covered by a nice park). Then I’d take Metro line #1 (yellow, also known as the Little Underground) along Andrássy Avenue, which is I think the oldest underground in Europe outside of the UK, all the stops are restored. Andrássy Avenue has the House of Terror museum, if you’re interested in that, and it’s a pretty nice avenue, with many nice places, but it’s too long to walk, so I’d maybe get out of the Underground a few times, but mostly travel with it to Heroes’ Square (Hősök tere), which looks pretty nice. Then there’s a nice park behind it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sz%C3%A9chenyi_Chain_Bridge

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Bridge_(Budapest)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_Line_M1_(Budapest_Metro)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C5%91s%C3%B6k_tere

    I think one day should be more than enough for this. Then, yes, you can spend two weeks sightseeing, but if I only had two days, the second day I’d just walk the streets, enjoy the cafes, restaurants (I can recommend a few), and do nothing. Or you can visit a spa (I think you asked once). There are many good restaurants and cafes along the line of the Little Underground, so you can just walk or travel these distances at a leisurely pace.

    • Replies: @AP
    Thank you! Will ask for restaurants later.
  147. @Yevardian

     everyone understood being a Socialist premier was toxic at this point; it was extremely ridiculous, people were sending around text messages like “Hi, I’m Ferenc Gyurcsany, prime minister of Hungary. Would you like to be the next prime minister? If not, please forward this text to someone.”)
     
    LOL.


    Thanks a lot for that information, I had just noticed the details of the speech, I didn't realise it was made after Ferensc was elected, I assumed it was made immediately prior to their electoral defeat.

    When I found out about that speech, and now the details you described, it explains a lot about modern Hungary.
    I could never figure out why Hungary was virtually the only country in Europe where the left was so universally marginalised. Plenty of states went through Communism, and nothing in Hungary's recent history or self-image seemed particularly unique (retarded Turanist theories aside) or more naturally 'based' than its neighbours. I thought Triannon might be the reason, but as you've said several times, reversing that is an utter fantasy on par with Germany taking back Königsberg and Danzig.

    But then I was browsing Wikipedia without real direction on Hungary and found that speech and it all clicked.

    An aside on Turanism and similar crazes, a Hungarian I know and his Finnish wife were talking about how the Hungarian intelligentsia was obsessed with Finland, but the latter country barely knew Hungary existed. Apparently he had to study the Kavela as a compulsory subject and even translate some verses.

    Apparently he had to study the Kavela as a compulsory subject and even translate some verses.

    Kalevala was taught to us at both primary and high school.

    It’s pretty unfortunate that all Finno-Ugric languages are distant relatives only, because at school they taught us the language similarities (like “house” is “ház” in Hungarian and “koti” in finnish – there’s a system here, like many words ending in “-z” in Hungarian but “-ti” in Finnish etc.), but they don’t sound very persuasive to most laypeople. While in the 1930s the far right was obsessed with Finland*, they are now obsessed with the most idiotic theories ever, like ancient Sumerians and Huns simultaneously being our ancestors.

    *We tried to send volunteers to Finland during the Winter War. 25,000 people volunteered, but after lots of screening 5,000 were accepted. Only one battalion was sent with the rest still receiving military training, but it took several weeks to travel around Europe, because Germany blocked them under the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. So by the time that one battalion arrived, and learned to ski (it was difficult for them), the war already ended.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    So by the time that one battalion arrived, and learned to ski (it was difficult for them), the war already ended.
     
    Doesn't Hungary have a native skiing tradition?
  148. @Yevardian

     everyone understood being a Socialist premier was toxic at this point; it was extremely ridiculous, people were sending around text messages like “Hi, I’m Ferenc Gyurcsany, prime minister of Hungary. Would you like to be the next prime minister? If not, please forward this text to someone.”)
     
    LOL.


    Thanks a lot for that information, I had just noticed the details of the speech, I didn't realise it was made after Ferensc was elected, I assumed it was made immediately prior to their electoral defeat.

    When I found out about that speech, and now the details you described, it explains a lot about modern Hungary.
    I could never figure out why Hungary was virtually the only country in Europe where the left was so universally marginalised. Plenty of states went through Communism, and nothing in Hungary's recent history or self-image seemed particularly unique (retarded Turanist theories aside) or more naturally 'based' than its neighbours. I thought Triannon might be the reason, but as you've said several times, reversing that is an utter fantasy on par with Germany taking back Königsberg and Danzig.

    But then I was browsing Wikipedia without real direction on Hungary and found that speech and it all clicked.

    An aside on Turanism and similar crazes, a Hungarian I know and his Finnish wife were talking about how the Hungarian intelligentsia was obsessed with Finland, but the latter country barely knew Hungary existed. Apparently he had to study the Kavela as a compulsory subject and even translate some verses.

    I could never figure out why Hungary was virtually the only country in Europe where the left was so universally marginalised.

    Yeah, they screwed up. Hungary is unfortunately not any more based than other former communist countries, and our upper middle class (my social class) is pretty hostile to Orbán. It’s just that the left hasn’t yet recovered, while Orbán still hasn’t used up all his political capital. (I.e. he hasn’t had to deal with a recession yet.) But given the extreme amount of corruption in his circles, he now generates way less devout following than back in the early 2000s, when he was much younger and his followers sang songs about Kossuth with Kossuth’s name swapped for Orbán.

    To be honest, I have no idea what will happen once Orbán is gone. It’s a bit similar to Putin.

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    Still, it seems that there have been some long term changes, for example the "far-right" Jobbik (what they actually believe is a mystery to me) is now the main opposition party. Or is that just because leftist parties are currently hounded by the incumbent Fidesz?

    Romania actually went through a similar period of nationalist popularity during the semi-criminal presidency (you know about the Miners Riots?) with Bogdan Tudor's "Greater Romania" party, but he since decided to become a clown like Zhirik.

    Romania probably has the worst governing culture in all of the EU, probably because in Romania the transition from Communism to Capitalism was almost completely uninterrupted. Other than Ceauşescu and his family being shot, almost the entire government apparatus stayed on in power, even those in the Securitate (secret police), though that institution itself was disbanded.

    Practically every Romanian public official has extensive dirt, so the culture was passed on, whilst anyone who refuses to take bribes and kickbacks can't vetted into politics. Recently the Socialists passed a law that upped the legal definition of a bribe by tens of thousands of Euros, but nationwide protests forced them to back down.

    This all happened under the Presidency of Klaus Iohannis, who the country overwhelmingly voted for as some kind of saviour in 2014, mainly because he had a German name (he's one of the very last Transylvanian Saxons who hasn't left Romania). Current prime minister is a woman who got Montenegro mixed up with Kosovo, claimed she was the first prime minister to ever visit Bulgaria, and is generally regarded as a puppet of people to dirty to run for front office themselves.

    Sorry for rant, didn't mean to write all this..

    So you could be worse. The appalling mismanagement in Romania is overlooked, because unlike Hungary or Poland, Romania is an extremely subservient member of the EU, and its leaders wisely keep a low profile abroad.

  149. Assange down.

    What does the Unz conspirologist community thinks?

    It it real? Is it Assange or his body double? Had Assange ever existed?

  150. @reiner Tor
    There are only a few sights I'd recommend if you only spend there two days. One is the Castle district and especially the view from the Fishermen's Bastion (which was built in the 19th century), then maybe you can walk both banks of the Danube a little bit, Margit Bridge, the Széchenyi Chain Bridge (Lánchíd) and the Liberty Bridge (Szabadság híd, until 1945 Franz Joseph Bridge) might be worth walking through or at least taking a closer look at them (especially the Chain Bridge and the Liberty Bridge, the Margit or Margaret Bridge is only worth it if you want to have a walk on Margit Island, which is to a large extent covered by a nice park). Then I'd take Metro line #1 (yellow, also known as the Little Underground) along Andrássy Avenue, which is I think the oldest underground in Europe outside of the UK, all the stops are restored. Andrássy Avenue has the House of Terror museum, if you're interested in that, and it's a pretty nice avenue, with many nice places, but it's too long to walk, so I'd maybe get out of the Underground a few times, but mostly travel with it to Heroes' Square (Hősök tere), which looks pretty nice. Then there's a nice park behind it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sz%C3%A9chenyi_Chain_Bridge

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Bridge_(Budapest)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_Line_M1_(Budapest_Metro)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C5%91s%C3%B6k_tere

    I think one day should be more than enough for this. Then, yes, you can spend two weeks sightseeing, but if I only had two days, the second day I'd just walk the streets, enjoy the cafes, restaurants (I can recommend a few), and do nothing. Or you can visit a spa (I think you asked once). There are many good restaurants and cafes along the line of the Little Underground, so you can just walk or travel these distances at a leisurely pace.

    Thank you! Will ask for restaurants later.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I left out the link to the Buda Castle:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buda_Castle

    It was nicer before 1944, but a war and siege happened, and I think it's nice as it is.
    , @melanf
    If your hotel is near the Heroes square - visit in the morning (when few people) széchenyi baths (taking swimming trunks and a swimming cap). At least in winter, swimming in the thermal springs in the open air is a cool entertainment. For lovers of rare animals (and those who travel with children) need to visit the zoo - it is small in size but very good. The zoo is also near the Heroes square
  151. Anonymous[415] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Big Red Scary
    Yeah, I know. I really hate that alt-right crypto-fascist Steven Pinker. That whole handsome, charismatic, liberal Jew thing is just to pool the wool over the eyes of the normies.

    Pinker isn’t alt-right, but an “entry-point” to the alt-right (similar to Jordan Peterson) since he’s sympathetic to some of their views, particularly anti-feminism and HBD/hereditarianism pseudoscience, and is commonly quoted or cited by alt-righters. Furthermore, he’s associated with many in the alt-right and has shared a platform with them at conferences and events etc.

    https://www.mcclernan.com/2018/04/steven-pinkers-rightwing-alt-right-and.html
    https://www.mcclernan.com/2018/04/steven-pinker-quillette-and-trump.html
    https://www.mcclernan.com/2018/08/more-about-steves-pinker-sailer.html
    https://www.mcclernan.com/2018/08/is-it-fair-of-me-to-link-steven-pinker.html
    https://www.mcclernan.com/2018/07/steven-pinker-still-shilling-for-trashy.html

  152. @AP
    Thank you! Will ask for restaurants later.

    I left out the link to the Buda Castle:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buda_Castle

    It was nicer before 1944, but a war and siege happened, and I think it’s nice as it is.

    • Replies: @AP
    Will be doing a vampire tour there.
  153. @reiner Tor
    I left out the link to the Buda Castle:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buda_Castle

    It was nicer before 1944, but a war and siege happened, and I think it's nice as it is.

    Will be doing a vampire tour there.

  154. @AP
    Thank you! Will ask for restaurants later.

    If your hotel is near the Heroes square – visit in the morning (when few people) széchenyi baths (taking swimming trunks and a swimming cap). At least in winter, swimming in the thermal springs in the open air is a cool entertainment. For lovers of rare animals (and those who travel with children) need to visit the zoo – it is small in size but very good. The zoo is also near the Heroes square

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    True, though both take at least half a day, so I'm not sure he'll have time for it.
    , @AP
    Thank you! I was thinking of the Gellert Baths, have you seen those? I will be at the Hilton near the train station.
  155. @reiner Tor

    Apparently he had to study the Kavela as a compulsory subject and even translate some verses.
     
    Kalevala was taught to us at both primary and high school.

    It's pretty unfortunate that all Finno-Ugric languages are distant relatives only, because at school they taught us the language similarities (like "house" is "ház" in Hungarian and "koti" in finnish - there's a system here, like many words ending in "-z" in Hungarian but "-ti" in Finnish etc.), but they don't sound very persuasive to most laypeople. While in the 1930s the far right was obsessed with Finland*, they are now obsessed with the most idiotic theories ever, like ancient Sumerians and Huns simultaneously being our ancestors.

    *We tried to send volunteers to Finland during the Winter War. 25,000 people volunteered, but after lots of screening 5,000 were accepted. Only one battalion was sent with the rest still receiving military training, but it took several weeks to travel around Europe, because Germany blocked them under the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. So by the time that one battalion arrived, and learned to ski (it was difficult for them), the war already ended.

    So by the time that one battalion arrived, and learned to ski (it was difficult for them), the war already ended.

    Doesn’t Hungary have a native skiing tradition?

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Maybe in Transylvania among Hungarians there. Definitely not in Hungary proper, where we have zero mountains suitable for skiing. There are few ski slopes open for maybe a few weeks a year, but nothing serious.
  156. @Daniel Chieh

    So by the time that one battalion arrived, and learned to ski (it was difficult for them), the war already ended.
     
    Doesn't Hungary have a native skiing tradition?

    Maybe in Transylvania among Hungarians there. Definitely not in Hungary proper, where we have zero mountains suitable for skiing. There are few ski slopes open for maybe a few weeks a year, but nothing serious.

  157. @melanf
    If your hotel is near the Heroes square - visit in the morning (when few people) széchenyi baths (taking swimming trunks and a swimming cap). At least in winter, swimming in the thermal springs in the open air is a cool entertainment. For lovers of rare animals (and those who travel with children) need to visit the zoo - it is small in size but very good. The zoo is also near the Heroes square

    True, though both take at least half a day, so I’m not sure he’ll have time for it.

  158. @g2k
    My suggestion is that the limits for nox and particulates are now being ratcheted down to levels where it's becoming impractical to do much more about it, these are acts of desperation, and that people ought to be realistic about city life. Afaik tyre and brake dust alone would put certain london streets over the limit. This will kill classic car culture if its widely copycatted regionally without exemptions for them (my own personal beef with it) which, thanks to communism, is going to be less of an issue in Russia. * Logburners/fires are another thing on the hitlist, though I've noticed little outrage about the haze of bbq/shashlyk restaurant smoke on summers days (the ladders part of green lanes actually has reduced visibility) and air quality on the underground.


    *For moscow to copy this while places like norilsk and asbest still exist would be ridiculous.

    people ought to be realistic about city life

    If you look at updating air pollution map, central London has moderately high pollution every evening. Sure it’s better than some cities in China, Poland, etc.

    But it’s also enough air pollution to be unpleasant (while categorized as only moderate air pollution by international standards).

    Cause of this air pollution is easy to prevent, and technological ability to stop it was already created more than 10 years ago.

    They just need some regulatory framework, to punish people who do not use the technology that prevents this form of air pollution. It will cost both government and private citizens – but at least it is all money which is expended on technology which benefits peoples’ everyday experience and health.

    will kill classic car culture if its widely copycatted regionally without exemptions for them (my own personal beef with it)

    It will punish poor people who cannot drive new vehicles. But anyone with petrol automobile over Euro 4 and diesel automobile over Euro 6 is fine (the former is the majority of petrol drivers in the region, while the latter will be more for diesel drivers who can buy relatively new cars only).

    Logburners/fires are another thing on the hitlist, though I’ve noticed little outrage about the haze of bbq/shashlyk restaurant smoke on summers days

    Air pollution is cumulative, and these different types of pollution do not substitute for each other.

    You can remove traffic pollution, and you will still have other forms of pollution. But cumulative total of pollution will be less ceteris paribus.

    I would agree that banning shashlik smoke is a sensible punishment, for city behaviour – just as people do not now put sewage in the street and view putting sewage in the streets today as completely uncivilized, even though in the past this was common habit, as it still is in Africa and India.

    moscow to copy this while places like norilsk and asbest still exist would be ridiculous.

    Air pollution is cumulative.

    So in an industrial city like Chelyabinsk – traffic is not the worst cause of the air pollution. But improving the emissions standards of vehicles, will still reduce the cumulative amount of air pollution ceteris paribus.

    I would agree, that air pollution from traffic is not the main priority ,in cities where faulty trains can cover the city in toxic bromine gas

  159. @melanf
    If your hotel is near the Heroes square - visit in the morning (when few people) széchenyi baths (taking swimming trunks and a swimming cap). At least in winter, swimming in the thermal springs in the open air is a cool entertainment. For lovers of rare animals (and those who travel with children) need to visit the zoo - it is small in size but very good. The zoo is also near the Heroes square

    Thank you! I was thinking of the Gellert Baths, have you seen those? I will be at the Hilton near the train station.

    • Replies: @melanf
    In the baths of Gellert, I unfortunately did not visit (I did not have enough time). But as I heard it is the most beautiful baths in Europe
    , @reiner Tor
    Gellért is perhaps the nicest, though I didn't like that the hot pool was only 38 degrees Celsius. Normally there's a "normal" temperature pool (still over 30 degrees), one body temperature pool (36 degrees) and one hot pool (normally 40 degrees). Széchenyi is a nice building over a hundred years old, but I think it felt a little worn out. Also I remember some signs weren't updated after they changed some things, and at first I felt totally lost there. There's Lukács, which I liked a lot, but no longer, because they renovated it and installed windows which destroyed the feeling.

    I've never been to Rudas, but it's thought to be the best by all of my friends who have. The problem is, it's usually men only.

    So overall Gellért is probably a good choice.
    , @g2k
    My favorite is kiraly, though it's a bit manky/soviet in places and much better in the winter than the summer. Rudas is a bit like kiraly but less scruffy, bigger, with a swimming pool and a modern extension. Rudas is men only on the weekends because they have pseudo-naked bathing.

    Scznezhny (sp) is massive, very 18th century European, there's about 100 pools inside with from various springs at varying temperatures and mineral contents, but all descriptions are in hungarian. The outside pools are very good and open all year round.

    Gellert has impressive art neuveau architecture; the swimming pool is very pretty, the mens' baths are art neuveau, the womens' are in high-soviet style, though they've both been de-segregated now. The outdoor pool is summer only, so i have no idea about iy, but it's supposedly good.

  160. The Turks are explicitly threatening to buy further Russian weapons, unless the US lets them have their way with the S-400.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-04-10/turkey-threatens-buy-even-more-russian-s-400s-if-us-doesnt-cooperate

  161. @AP
    Thank you! I was thinking of the Gellert Baths, have you seen those? I will be at the Hilton near the train station.

    In the baths of Gellert, I unfortunately did not visit (I did not have enough time). But as I heard it is the most beautiful baths in Europe

  162. @AP
    Thank you! I was thinking of the Gellert Baths, have you seen those? I will be at the Hilton near the train station.

    Gellért is perhaps the nicest, though I didn’t like that the hot pool was only 38 degrees Celsius. Normally there’s a “normal” temperature pool (still over 30 degrees), one body temperature pool (36 degrees) and one hot pool (normally 40 degrees). Széchenyi is a nice building over a hundred years old, but I think it felt a little worn out. Also I remember some signs weren’t updated after they changed some things, and at first I felt totally lost there. There’s Lukács, which I liked a lot, but no longer, because they renovated it and installed windows which destroyed the feeling.

    I’ve never been to Rudas, but it’s thought to be the best by all of my friends who have. The problem is, it’s usually men only.

    So overall Gellért is probably a good choice.

  163. @AP
    Thank you! I was thinking of the Gellert Baths, have you seen those? I will be at the Hilton near the train station.

    My favorite is kiraly, though it’s a bit manky/soviet in places and much better in the winter than the summer. Rudas is a bit like kiraly but less scruffy, bigger, with a swimming pool and a modern extension. Rudas is men only on the weekends because they have pseudo-naked bathing.

    Scznezhny (sp) is massive, very 18th century European, there’s about 100 pools inside with from various springs at varying temperatures and mineral contents, but all descriptions are in hungarian. The outside pools are very good and open all year round.

    Gellert has impressive art neuveau architecture; the swimming pool is very pretty, the mens’ baths are art neuveau, the womens’ are in high-soviet style, though they’ve both been de-segregated now. The outdoor pool is summer only, so i have no idea about iy, but it’s supposedly good.

  164. Anonymous[151] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon
    Alt-right these days is nothing than pure blackpill, doom, gloom and depression. "Trump sold us, Jews control everything, all is lost."
    And they are not alone - if you watch radical left sites and accounts, there is the same despair "fascism is rising all over the world, Putin owns everyone, we are doomed."

    https://twitter.com/WarAndWar2/status/1116103301244891136

    Is one of them right, both or neither?

    Both the alt-right and the “radical left” of the Chapo Trap House type are fundamentally nihilistic movements composed of angry, depressive young men on the fringes of society. Really, to even call them “movements” is kind of overstating the case: they are mostly disorganized online subcultures that very occasionally coalesce as real-world phenomena. Compared to something like, say, the Yellow Vests, they are totally ineffectual (and I don’t think the Yellow Vests have been all that effective themselves).

    Neoliberalism is still in full flower and will probably still carry the day: compared to every other ideology it is simply too intelligent, organized, energetic, efficient and determined to be easily defeated.

    • Replies: @DFH
    The alt-right is not nihilistic; much less so than mainstream culture or neoliberalism
  165. @Anonymous
    Both the alt-right and the "radical left" of the Chapo Trap House type are fundamentally nihilistic movements composed of angry, depressive young men on the fringes of society. Really, to even call them "movements" is kind of overstating the case: they are mostly disorganized online subcultures that very occasionally coalesce as real-world phenomena. Compared to something like, say, the Yellow Vests, they are totally ineffectual (and I don't think the Yellow Vests have been all that effective themselves).

    Neoliberalism is still in full flower and will probably still carry the day: compared to every other ideology it is simply too intelligent, organized, energetic, efficient and determined to be easily defeated.

    The alt-right is not nihilistic; much less so than mainstream culture or neoliberalism

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Yes their preoccupation with genocide, ethnic cleansing, nuclear war etc. is surely evidence of a humanistic, progressive world view.
  166. @DFH
    The alt-right is not nihilistic; much less so than mainstream culture or neoliberalism

    Yes their preoccupation with genocide, ethnic cleansing, nuclear war etc. is surely evidence of a humanistic, progressive world view.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    They are structurally the same ideologies, just repackaged for equally unhappy people with slightly different self-conceptions.

    Some people have a desire to be unhappy with everything, and want an excuse to whine and complain. This is the default for them, and you can perceive their whining whether they are talking about politics or about a visit to the beach.

    In the case of ideologies which promote this - whether "far-left", "radical feminist" or "alt-right" - they are given usually some simple "bad guys" they can blame for "everything is terrible" situation of the world, and some simple, pantomime narrative which allows them to feel morally better than others, as well as part of a herd of sheep moving in the same direction, and to project hope of some future where their problems will be solved.

    In any case - and radical feminism is the most comic version - they have an excuse for more whining about "everything is terrible". The worst thing for them will be if co-evals would be successful and happy, or the politics of their society becomes too stable. .

    , @anonymous coward
    No ideology could possibly be more evil and nihilistic than a "humanistic, progressive world view". Humanism is the apex of self-destruction.

    "...and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."
  167. A few months ago, but I only read this now – Putin’s daughter was interviewed during a report on Innopraktika, which she directs.

    She is interviewed at 1:54 to 2:10 in the video:

    • Replies: @songbird
    Did you ever see Chelsea Clinton on TV?

    She had a real sweetheart gig on NBC - which is one of the major US broadcast networks. She was AWFUL. I mean, like immediately, you think there was some serious political favors involved, and they weren't doing it for her celebrity status or even her future political prospects (non-existent.) She was paid $600,000/year for about 3 years or so, for hardly doing anything, though I only watched her for about 2 minutes.

    Jenna Bush is also on TV, but I have never seen her.

    It is interesting to think: first, they say JFK became president because he looked better than Nixon on TV, even though Nixon sounded better on radio. Then, there were two TV personalities that became presidents - Reagan and Trump. Now it is like they are trying to perpetuate political dynasties through the mechanism of TV.
  168. @Mitleser
    Or the Moroccan take over of West Sahara.

    Or the Moroccan take over of West Sahara.

    Quite a few people complained, notably the Polisario Front (supported by Algeria) which launched an armed conflict, and still controls near a quarter of the territory.

  169. @Anonymous
    Yes their preoccupation with genocide, ethnic cleansing, nuclear war etc. is surely evidence of a humanistic, progressive world view.

    They are structurally the same ideologies, just repackaged for equally unhappy people with slightly different self-conceptions.

    Some people have a desire to be unhappy with everything, and want an excuse to whine and complain. This is the default for them, and you can perceive their whining whether they are talking about politics or about a visit to the beach.

    In the case of ideologies which promote this – whether “far-left”, “radical feminist” or “alt-right” – they are given usually some simple “bad guys” they can blame for “everything is terrible” situation of the world, and some simple, pantomime narrative which allows them to feel morally better than others, as well as part of a herd of sheep moving in the same direction, and to project hope of some future where their problems will be solved.

    In any case – and radical feminism is the most comic version – they have an excuse for more whining about “everything is terrible”. The worst thing for them will be if co-evals would be successful and happy, or the politics of their society becomes too stable. .

  170. @Yevardian

     everyone understood being a Socialist premier was toxic at this point; it was extremely ridiculous, people were sending around text messages like “Hi, I’m Ferenc Gyurcsany, prime minister of Hungary. Would you like to be the next prime minister? If not, please forward this text to someone.”)
     
    LOL.


    Thanks a lot for that information, I had just noticed the details of the speech, I didn't realise it was made after Ferensc was elected, I assumed it was made immediately prior to their electoral defeat.

    When I found out about that speech, and now the details you described, it explains a lot about modern Hungary.
    I could never figure out why Hungary was virtually the only country in Europe where the left was so universally marginalised. Plenty of states went through Communism, and nothing in Hungary's recent history or self-image seemed particularly unique (retarded Turanist theories aside) or more naturally 'based' than its neighbours. I thought Triannon might be the reason, but as you've said several times, reversing that is an utter fantasy on par with Germany taking back Königsberg and Danzig.

    But then I was browsing Wikipedia without real direction on Hungary and found that speech and it all clicked.

    An aside on Turanism and similar crazes, a Hungarian I know and his Finnish wife were talking about how the Hungarian intelligentsia was obsessed with Finland, but the latter country barely knew Hungary existed. Apparently he had to study the Kavela as a compulsory subject and even translate some verses.

    Finns had a lot of interest in Hungary back in the late 19th and early 20th century. There was a whole big racial debate over whether a Finno-Ugric national project is at all viable with a lot of Germanic people in high positions insisting that Aryans (Indo-Europeans) must rule over us or it will all be disaster. The model of Hungary as an old European country was considered a killer argument on the side of Finns.

    Interest in Hungary collapsed after WWII when those Aryan racial theorists disappeared, Finns flooded the education system and took over from Germanic elites (which seems to have changed nothing at all here). Then Hungary was closed to right-wingers under communism and the 1956 uprising gave Hungarians a huge “reactionary” stigma among leftists.

    In the 1990s there were a bunch of Hungary fads here since travel was opened but it died down and our universities and media is now all about American imported poz so no one remembers Hungary (at this point most young Finns don’t even know that Finno-Ugric languages are a thing, they just think we are white colonial oppressors who enslaved African-Americans like Nelson Mandela).

    • Replies: @Matra
    Finnish F1 driver Mika Hakkinen was strangely (to us in the rest of Europe) super popular with Hungarian crowds yet generally an afterthought everywhere else on the tour. I saw a British TV interview with him - maybe 20 years ago - in which he was asked about his popularity in Hungary. He claimed he had absolutely no idea why Hungarians cheered for a Finnish driver.
    , @reiner Tor
    Both Hungary and Finland were better when we looked to each other for inspiration.
  171. @Dmitry
    A few months ago, but I only read this now - Putin's daughter was interviewed during a report on Innopraktika, which she directs.

    She is interviewed at 1:54 to 2:10 in the video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvnQDAE-Ofc

    Did you ever see Chelsea Clinton on TV?

    She had a real sweetheart gig on NBC – which is one of the major US broadcast networks. She was AWFUL. I mean, like immediately, you think there was some serious political favors involved, and they weren’t doing it for her celebrity status or even her future political prospects (non-existent.) She was paid $600,000/year for about 3 years or so, for hardly doing anything, though I only watched her for about 2 minutes.

    Jenna Bush is also on TV, but I have never seen her.

    It is interesting to think: first, they say JFK became president because he looked better than Nixon on TV, even though Nixon sounded better on radio. Then, there were two TV personalities that became presidents – Reagan and Trump. Now it is like they are trying to perpetuate political dynasties through the mechanism of TV.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    With Putin, it's weirder though, because the daughter is "secretly" his daughter. They gave her a fake name and never said her identity publicly.

    It was only a few years ago, that bloggers first disclosed her identity. And then it was from the combination of her face and her randomly high positions.

    What's strange is how now - after her identical is "open secret"- they are publicizing her on television, without saying who she is. They just interview her as a scientist with her fake name and strange company.

    And she is director of this company "Innopraktika", which looks like it can be just a way to cut money from the budget (similar to Rosnano).

    Her "company" seems like a machine for money laundering with Leonid Mikhelson, Sergey Chemezov and Igor Sechin.

    https://innopraktika.ru/company/popechitelskiy-sovet/


    -

    Giving fake names to the children is not only from Putin though. Poroshenko's children also use fake names. But they are very easy to find and they also appear publicly with Poroshenko. It's only with Putin there is this total "secrecy" about his daughters, even as he gives important jobs to one of them.

  172. @Jaakko Raipala
    Finns had a lot of interest in Hungary back in the late 19th and early 20th century. There was a whole big racial debate over whether a Finno-Ugric national project is at all viable with a lot of Germanic people in high positions insisting that Aryans (Indo-Europeans) must rule over us or it will all be disaster. The model of Hungary as an old European country was considered a killer argument on the side of Finns.

    Interest in Hungary collapsed after WWII when those Aryan racial theorists disappeared, Finns flooded the education system and took over from Germanic elites (which seems to have changed nothing at all here). Then Hungary was closed to right-wingers under communism and the 1956 uprising gave Hungarians a huge "reactionary" stigma among leftists.

    In the 1990s there were a bunch of Hungary fads here since travel was opened but it died down and our universities and media is now all about American imported poz so no one remembers Hungary (at this point most young Finns don't even know that Finno-Ugric languages are a thing, they just think we are white colonial oppressors who enslaved African-Americans like Nelson Mandela).

    Finnish F1 driver Mika Hakkinen was strangely (to us in the rest of Europe) super popular with Hungarian crowds yet generally an afterthought everywhere else on the tour. I saw a British TV interview with him – maybe 20 years ago – in which he was asked about his popularity in Hungary. He claimed he had absolutely no idea why Hungarians cheered for a Finnish driver.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Räikkönen is very popular among my Formula One loving friends. I don't know if that's true of Hungarian Formula One fans in general, but it's certainly true of a few friends and acquaintances who don't know each other. Though I think it's because he's really likable.
  173. @reiner Tor

    I could never figure out why Hungary was virtually the only country in Europe where the left was so universally marginalised.
     
    Yeah, they screwed up. Hungary is unfortunately not any more based than other former communist countries, and our upper middle class (my social class) is pretty hostile to Orbán. It's just that the left hasn't yet recovered, while Orbán still hasn't used up all his political capital. (I.e. he hasn't had to deal with a recession yet.) But given the extreme amount of corruption in his circles, he now generates way less devout following than back in the early 2000s, when he was much younger and his followers sang songs about Kossuth with Kossuth's name swapped for Orbán.

    To be honest, I have no idea what will happen once Orbán is gone. It's a bit similar to Putin.

    Still, it seems that there have been some long term changes, for example the “far-right” Jobbik (what they actually believe is a mystery to me) is now the main opposition party. Or is that just because leftist parties are currently hounded by the incumbent Fidesz?

    Romania actually went through a similar period of nationalist popularity during the semi-criminal presidency (you know about the Miners Riots?) with Bogdan Tudor’s “Greater Romania” party, but he since decided to become a clown like Zhirik.

    Romania probably has the worst governing culture in all of the EU, probably because in Romania the transition from Communism to Capitalism was almost completely uninterrupted. Other than Ceauşescu and his family being shot, almost the entire government apparatus stayed on in power, even those in the Securitate (secret police), though that institution itself was disbanded.

    Practically every Romanian public official has extensive dirt, so the culture was passed on, whilst anyone who refuses to take bribes and kickbacks can’t vetted into politics. Recently the Socialists passed a law that upped the legal definition of a bribe by tens of thousands of Euros, but nationwide protests forced them to back down.

    This all happened under the Presidency of Klaus Iohannis, who the country overwhelmingly voted for as some kind of saviour in 2014, mainly because he had a German name (he’s one of the very last Transylvanian Saxons who hasn’t left Romania). Current prime minister is a woman who got Montenegro mixed up with Kosovo, claimed she was the first prime minister to ever visit Bulgaria, and is generally regarded as a puppet of people to dirty to run for front office themselves.

    Sorry for rant, didn’t mean to write all this..

    So you could be worse. The appalling mismanagement in Romania is overlooked, because unlike Hungary or Poland, Romania is an extremely subservient member of the EU, and its leaders wisely keep a low profile abroad.

    • Replies: @Mitleser

    This all happened under the Presidency of Klaus Iohannis, who the country overwhelmingly voted for as some kind of saviour in 2014, mainly because he had a German name (he’s one of the very last Transylvanian Saxons who hasn’t left Romania). Current prime minister is a woman who got Montenegro mixed up with Kosovo, claimed she was the first prime minister to ever visit Bulgaria, and is generally regarded as a puppet of people to dirty to run for front office themselves.
     
    https://twitter.com/khanabrar643/status/1110290023323262984
    , @reiner Tor

    you know about the Miners Riots?
     
    Just a few days ago in one of the Ukraine threads (here: http://www.unz.com/akarlin/ukraine-elections-2019/ ) there was a very long off topic thread about Hungary and Transylvania, and some Romanian commenters brought up the events a few months earlier in Marosvásárhely ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_clashes_of_T%C3%A2rgu_Mure%C8%99 ) which they called "chimping out" by the Hungarian minority there (when in fact the riots weren't started by them, though they organized themselves after the first day and committed atrocities themselves). The Miners' Riots have Wikipedia pages (called Mineriads), it's of course well known in Hungary. In fact, I brought it up in that comment thread.

    The appalling mismanagement in Romania
     
    Its relative position to Hungary has improved over the past three decades, so most people in Hungary usually assume that it's at least not worse than the mismanagement of Hungary. Also a lot was made in the liberal media and press of the fact that a Romanian prime minister was forced to resign (?) after corruption charges brought against him by an anti-corruption prosecutor office, while in Hungary the prosecutor general is a guy totally subservient to Orbán and invariably refuses to bring charges even when there is a lot of evidence. So many people actually think that Romania is now better governed than Hungary. It's also well-known that Romanian diplomacy (and political maneuvering) was better than Hungarian in the era 1914-1945 (and probably earlier), though a lot of it could be the result of Hungary not having an independent diplomatic corps before the events 1918-20.

    Jobbik (what they actually believe is a mystery to me) is now the main opposition party
     
    While they contained (and I think still contain) lots of crackpot nationalists, their main message was reigning in Gypsy criminality. However, since 2014 they've constantly been moving to the left, so now they are probably to the left of Fidesz. Most leftist parties reject them for their "Nazi" past.
  174. @songbird
    Did you ever see Chelsea Clinton on TV?

    She had a real sweetheart gig on NBC - which is one of the major US broadcast networks. She was AWFUL. I mean, like immediately, you think there was some serious political favors involved, and they weren't doing it for her celebrity status or even her future political prospects (non-existent.) She was paid $600,000/year for about 3 years or so, for hardly doing anything, though I only watched her for about 2 minutes.

    Jenna Bush is also on TV, but I have never seen her.

    It is interesting to think: first, they say JFK became president because he looked better than Nixon on TV, even though Nixon sounded better on radio. Then, there were two TV personalities that became presidents - Reagan and Trump. Now it is like they are trying to perpetuate political dynasties through the mechanism of TV.

    With Putin, it’s weirder though, because the daughter is “secretly” his daughter. They gave her a fake name and never said her identity publicly.

    It was only a few years ago, that bloggers first disclosed her identity. And then it was from the combination of her face and her randomly high positions.

    What’s strange is how now – after her identical is “open secret”- they are publicizing her on television, without saying who she is. They just interview her as a scientist with her fake name and strange company.

    And she is director of this company “Innopraktika”, which looks like it can be just a way to cut money from the budget (similar to Rosnano).

    Her “company” seems like a machine for money laundering with Leonid Mikhelson, Sergey Chemezov and Igor Sechin.

    https://innopraktika.ru/company/popechitelskiy-sovet/

    Giving fake names to the children is not only from Putin though. Poroshenko’s children also use fake names. But they are very easy to find and they also appear publicly with Poroshenko. It’s only with Putin there is this total “secrecy” about his daughters, even as he gives important jobs to one of them.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Why does he choose to keep his daughters identities incognito? Are they 'illegitimate' or what?
    , @Gerad. 1
    We do not know if that if that is his daughter. Does the professional rock&roll acrobatics for her previous job sound plausible for the daughter of one of the most powerful men in the world?
  175. @Yevardian
    Still, it seems that there have been some long term changes, for example the "far-right" Jobbik (what they actually believe is a mystery to me) is now the main opposition party. Or is that just because leftist parties are currently hounded by the incumbent Fidesz?

    Romania actually went through a similar period of nationalist popularity during the semi-criminal presidency (you know about the Miners Riots?) with Bogdan Tudor's "Greater Romania" party, but he since decided to become a clown like Zhirik.

    Romania probably has the worst governing culture in all of the EU, probably because in Romania the transition from Communism to Capitalism was almost completely uninterrupted. Other than Ceauşescu and his family being shot, almost the entire government apparatus stayed on in power, even those in the Securitate (secret police), though that institution itself was disbanded.

    Practically every Romanian public official has extensive dirt, so the culture was passed on, whilst anyone who refuses to take bribes and kickbacks can't vetted into politics. Recently the Socialists passed a law that upped the legal definition of a bribe by tens of thousands of Euros, but nationwide protests forced them to back down.

    This all happened under the Presidency of Klaus Iohannis, who the country overwhelmingly voted for as some kind of saviour in 2014, mainly because he had a German name (he's one of the very last Transylvanian Saxons who hasn't left Romania). Current prime minister is a woman who got Montenegro mixed up with Kosovo, claimed she was the first prime minister to ever visit Bulgaria, and is generally regarded as a puppet of people to dirty to run for front office themselves.

    Sorry for rant, didn't mean to write all this..

    So you could be worse. The appalling mismanagement in Romania is overlooked, because unlike Hungary or Poland, Romania is an extremely subservient member of the EU, and its leaders wisely keep a low profile abroad.

    This all happened under the Presidency of Klaus Iohannis, who the country overwhelmingly voted for as some kind of saviour in 2014, mainly because he had a German name (he’s one of the very last Transylvanian Saxons who hasn’t left Romania). Current prime minister is a woman who got Montenegro mixed up with Kosovo, claimed she was the first prime minister to ever visit Bulgaria, and is generally regarded as a puppet of people to dirty to run for front office themselves.

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    Must have missed this, I wouldn't have thought he had it in him.

    So many people actually think that Romania is now better governed than Hungary. It’s also well-known that Romanian diplomacy (and political maneuvering) was better than Hungarian in the era 1914-1945 (and probably earlier), though a lot of it could be the result of Hungary not having an independent diplomatic corps before the events 1918-20.
     
    Hard to say, may be a "greener grass" effect. I've never been to Hungary, so I can't say. Has Hungary haemorrhaged talent anything like Romania though? Romania has gone from ~23 million to perhaps ~19 million in 30 years. Hungary certainly started from a far higher base living standard in 89, which makes it hard to compare to Romania. Certainly your description of the years (worse then Serbia? really? ) between 2000-2010 were a surprise to me.
    I suppose if you take into account the legacy of the Yugoslav Wars and Ceauşescu, Hungary doesn't have an excuse for such mismanagement.

    Yeah, The Mineriad, I wasn't sure if they were known by that name outside Romania.
  176. @Yevardian
    Still, it seems that there have been some long term changes, for example the "far-right" Jobbik (what they actually believe is a mystery to me) is now the main opposition party. Or is that just because leftist parties are currently hounded by the incumbent Fidesz?

    Romania actually went through a similar period of nationalist popularity during the semi-criminal presidency (you know about the Miners Riots?) with Bogdan Tudor's "Greater Romania" party, but he since decided to become a clown like Zhirik.

    Romania probably has the worst governing culture in all of the EU, probably because in Romania the transition from Communism to Capitalism was almost completely uninterrupted. Other than Ceauşescu and his family being shot, almost the entire government apparatus stayed on in power, even those in the Securitate (secret police), though that institution itself was disbanded.

    Practically every Romanian public official has extensive dirt, so the culture was passed on, whilst anyone who refuses to take bribes and kickbacks can't vetted into politics. Recently the Socialists passed a law that upped the legal definition of a bribe by tens of thousands of Euros, but nationwide protests forced them to back down.

    This all happened under the Presidency of Klaus Iohannis, who the country overwhelmingly voted for as some kind of saviour in 2014, mainly because he had a German name (he's one of the very last Transylvanian Saxons who hasn't left Romania). Current prime minister is a woman who got Montenegro mixed up with Kosovo, claimed she was the first prime minister to ever visit Bulgaria, and is generally regarded as a puppet of people to dirty to run for front office themselves.

    Sorry for rant, didn't mean to write all this..

    So you could be worse. The appalling mismanagement in Romania is overlooked, because unlike Hungary or Poland, Romania is an extremely subservient member of the EU, and its leaders wisely keep a low profile abroad.

    you know about the Miners Riots?

    Just a few days ago in one of the Ukraine threads (here: http://www.unz.com/akarlin/ukraine-elections-2019/ ) there was a very long off topic thread about Hungary and Transylvania, and some Romanian commenters brought up the events a few months earlier in Marosvásárhely ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_clashes_of_T%C3%A2rgu_Mure%C8%99 ) which they called “chimping out” by the Hungarian minority there (when in fact the riots weren’t started by them, though they organized themselves after the first day and committed atrocities themselves). The Miners’ Riots have Wikipedia pages (called Mineriads), it’s of course well known in Hungary. In fact, I brought it up in that comment thread.

    The appalling mismanagement in Romania

    Its relative position to Hungary has improved over the past three decades, so most people in Hungary usually assume that it’s at least not worse than the mismanagement of Hungary. Also a lot was made in the liberal media and press of the fact that a Romanian prime minister was forced to resign (?) after corruption charges brought against him by an anti-corruption prosecutor office, while in Hungary the prosecutor general is a guy totally subservient to Orbán and invariably refuses to bring charges even when there is a lot of evidence. So many people actually think that Romania is now better governed than Hungary. It’s also well-known that Romanian diplomacy (and political maneuvering) was better than Hungarian in the era 1914-1945 (and probably earlier), though a lot of it could be the result of Hungary not having an independent diplomatic corps before the events 1918-20.

    Jobbik (what they actually believe is a mystery to me) is now the main opposition party

    While they contained (and I think still contain) lots of crackpot nationalists, their main message was reigning in Gypsy criminality. However, since 2014 they’ve constantly been moving to the left, so now they are probably to the left of Fidesz. Most leftist parties reject them for their “Nazi” past.

    • Replies: @Dacian Julien Soros
    Mineriads have two episodes. In the early nineties, Iliescu, the president
    , @Dacian Julien Soros
    Mineriads comprise two episodes. In the early nineties, Iliescu, the winner of the first presidential elections (85% in 1990, 61% in 1992), propped up his rule using the miners as counter-protesters. In one instance, he brought them in to get rid of a disobedient prime minister who refused to quit. In another, he called them after violent incidents between "student" opponents and regular riot police. Two other counter-protests were organized in the months preceding the first elections, when admittedly his rules not (yet) lawful, and leaders from other parties demanded government seats.

    In that series of incidents, only the incidents of June 13th led to four dead anti-Iliescu protesters. The problem is, of course, that the miners do not arrive to Bucharest until the 14th. All in all, miners were merely bodies on the street. Yes, the miners tried to beat students, but it was quite hard to so with the University closed one day in advance by the riot police. I wish I could say it was the Romanian version of Hard Hat Riot, but movies show a bunch of tired, emaciated men, mostly wanking about. In hindsight, I'd like anybody who disputes the legitimacy of president with 85% of votes on a 86% turnout, just three weeks earlier, to be smashed until he keeps it to himself - but it didn't happen.

    The other mineriad shows precisely what the miners could do on their own. In 1999, upset by the wave of privatisations, miners tried again to get to Bucharest. But this time, instead of getting free express train rides, they got complete closure of the railway. When they walked, the riot police set up barricades, and stopped them 200 km away from Bucharest, twice. Those was the only chimp outs that the miners could do: victimless leapfrog games with riot police in the middle of nowhere.

    Surely, lying about mineriads helped demonizing Iliescu. The lie that Iliescu wasn't the lawful leader of the country, that he owes his position to the Communist party, or to one thousand miners, sabotaged the trust of Romanians in their own country even further. It played on the feeble minds of the idiots who thought the problem is in the state, not in themselves. Again, in hindsight, I can see that Ceausescu's fault in the eyes of the West wasn't that he was unelected. Iliescu was painted to look just as bad, merely because he was refusing privatisation. For example, until 2003, it was illegal for foreigners to buy land in Romania. At the initial price, the country would have been sold to Jews and Hungarians in no time.

    Iliescu could have gone Lukashenko, Milosevic, or at least Berisha. Instead, he and his clique were forced to claim allegiance to NATO and EU, in order to keep his position. This new generation of leaders is similarly held captive by make-belief "communism", "corruption", "antisemitism", which is believed by a loud small minority of locals. Hence, the new leaders rush to kiss Netanyahu's ass.

    In fact, there is nothing special about corruption in Romania. Our banks do not launder money for Iran, and our car manufacturers do not falsify their emission data, if only because we don't have any significant banks and any car manufacturers. Our most famous corruption cases are named after foreign companies: the Tepro scandal, the Bechtel fraud, the Motorola dossier, the Microsoft dossier. But surprisingly, all the corruption is found in the Social Democrat Party. According to our prosecutors, no other politician is corrupt, and no foreign citizen is corrupt. I've seen this movie in Italy before. It only serves to piss on election results, for one or two cycles, and to sabotage self-trust.

    The prime minister you mention did not quit "due to corruption charges". There were fake accusations, meant to make him quit, but those led to nothing in the subsequent 3 years. Same prosecutors, same suspect, no prosecution. It first went Mueller-style, with an appearance of an inquiry, but as soon as he stopped giving interviews, the cases were dropped. Indeed, Ponta ignore the "accusations" for over one year. What made him give up was the loss of confidence from his party, which made sense because he lost presidential elections 10 months earlier, and was perceived as a liability for the incoming parliamentary elections.

    Also, between wars, Romanian diplomats were a bunch of crooks, who agreed to "protection from France" (which never arrived), then "help from Germany" (Vienna Diktat, loss of Bessarabia and Southern Dobruja, low-quality guns at extortion price). Romania had the good fortune of being placed on a main thrust of the Soviet army. Also, we capitulated as soon as Soviets crossed the pre-1918 border. Hungary resisted for a few more months, and that made them a more obvious enemy for Stalin.
  177. @Jaakko Raipala
    Finns had a lot of interest in Hungary back in the late 19th and early 20th century. There was a whole big racial debate over whether a Finno-Ugric national project is at all viable with a lot of Germanic people in high positions insisting that Aryans (Indo-Europeans) must rule over us or it will all be disaster. The model of Hungary as an old European country was considered a killer argument on the side of Finns.

    Interest in Hungary collapsed after WWII when those Aryan racial theorists disappeared, Finns flooded the education system and took over from Germanic elites (which seems to have changed nothing at all here). Then Hungary was closed to right-wingers under communism and the 1956 uprising gave Hungarians a huge "reactionary" stigma among leftists.

    In the 1990s there were a bunch of Hungary fads here since travel was opened but it died down and our universities and media is now all about American imported poz so no one remembers Hungary (at this point most young Finns don't even know that Finno-Ugric languages are a thing, they just think we are white colonial oppressors who enslaved African-Americans like Nelson Mandela).

    Both Hungary and Finland were better when we looked to each other for inspiration.

  178. @Matra
    Finnish F1 driver Mika Hakkinen was strangely (to us in the rest of Europe) super popular with Hungarian crowds yet generally an afterthought everywhere else on the tour. I saw a British TV interview with him - maybe 20 years ago - in which he was asked about his popularity in Hungary. He claimed he had absolutely no idea why Hungarians cheered for a Finnish driver.

    Räikkönen is very popular among my Formula One loving friends. I don’t know if that’s true of Hungarian Formula One fans in general, but it’s certainly true of a few friends and acquaintances who don’t know each other. Though I think it’s because he’s really likable.

  179. @Mitleser

    This all happened under the Presidency of Klaus Iohannis, who the country overwhelmingly voted for as some kind of saviour in 2014, mainly because he had a German name (he’s one of the very last Transylvanian Saxons who hasn’t left Romania). Current prime minister is a woman who got Montenegro mixed up with Kosovo, claimed she was the first prime minister to ever visit Bulgaria, and is generally regarded as a puppet of people to dirty to run for front office themselves.
     
    https://twitter.com/khanabrar643/status/1110290023323262984

    Must have missed this, I wouldn’t have thought he had it in him.

    So many people actually think that Romania is now better governed than Hungary. It’s also well-known that Romanian diplomacy (and political maneuvering) was better than Hungarian in the era 1914-1945 (and probably earlier), though a lot of it could be the result of Hungary not having an independent diplomatic corps before the events 1918-20.

    Hard to say, may be a “greener grass” effect. I’ve never been to Hungary, so I can’t say. Has Hungary haemorrhaged talent anything like Romania though? Romania has gone from ~23 million to perhaps ~19 million in 30 years. Hungary certainly started from a far higher base living standard in 89, which makes it hard to compare to Romania. Certainly your description of the years (worse then Serbia? really? ) between 2000-2010 were a surprise to me.
    I suppose if you take into account the legacy of the Yugoslav Wars and Ceauşescu, Hungary doesn’t have an excuse for such mismanagement.

    Yeah, The Mineriad, I wasn’t sure if they were known by that name outside Romania.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    Has Hungary haemorrhaged talent anything like Romania though? Romania has gone from ~23 million to perhaps ~19 million in 30 years.
     
    Hungary's natural population growth has been negative since 1981, its TFR has been below 2.1 since 1958 (except three years 1975-77), which is I think the longest decline in all of Europe. In 1981 the Hungarian population was around 10.8 million, now it's over a million lower (so a 10% decline since then), but a lot of problems were masked by mass immigration by ethnic Hungarians from neighboring countries (I think well over 500,000), so population decline would be comparable to Romania. Of course, there's been an ongoing trickle of immigration from elsewhere (Vietnam, China, the Arab world, or recently Ukrainians), which was also maybe 2-300,000 or more. (I'm lazy now to look up the numbers.)

    Emigration has only picked up around 2011 (mostly as a combined response to abolishing EU restrictions and the cumulative pressure of several years of financial crisis, also as networks of Hungarians already working abroad took off - there's always a cumulative effect, more emigration will lead to ever more emigration), but I don't think it's because Hungary was so much better managed than Romania. One reason is obviously the already higher living standards (despite the mismanagement, they are still higher in Hungary than Romania), so the pull of higher Western European living standards would be lower.

    But the big reason is language: Romanians can easily emigrate to France, Italy, Spain, and already roughly understand the language or make themselves understood. Even Slavic speakers can easily learn Germanic languages. Whereas for Hungarians any European language is horribly difficult to learn. (The same difficulty you experience while trying to learn Hungarian.) So knowledge of foreign languages is relatively among the very lowest in Europe. This might actually have an advantage: it might make Hungary more "based" than other European countries, as it's more difficult for foreign trends to be picked up.

    Still, English is not a very difficult language anyway, and language skills among the youth have been improving tremendously since the early 1990s. So don't expect that situation to persist.
    , @reiner Tor

    the years (worse then Serbia? really? ) between 2000-2010 were a surprise to me.
     
    2002-2008 were the years with the most serious mismanagement. By 2009 the country was already under IMF tutelage, though of course governance was fully neoliberal, which was probably not optimal either. I don't think it was markedly worse than most of our neighbors since 2009, but the damage was already done.

    I suppose if you take into account the legacy of the Yugoslav Wars and Ceauşescu, Hungary doesn’t have an excuse for such mismanagement.
     
    On the other hand, we inherited by far the largest external debt (along with Poland) from the communists, and unlike Poland, our debts weren't forgiven at all, while the Poles had some 75% of their external debt forgiven.
  180. AK tweeted about ‘the Swine Right’ being responsible for cutting science funding in Brazil, but in fact the very article he tweeted attributes the cuts to hyper-educated neoliberal Americanophile technocrat Paolo Guedes in opposition to the initial inclinations of Bolsonaro himself

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Yes, I should have read to the end. Trust Nature to come up with headlines.
  181. @Dmitry
    With Putin, it's weirder though, because the daughter is "secretly" his daughter. They gave her a fake name and never said her identity publicly.

    It was only a few years ago, that bloggers first disclosed her identity. And then it was from the combination of her face and her randomly high positions.

    What's strange is how now - after her identical is "open secret"- they are publicizing her on television, without saying who she is. They just interview her as a scientist with her fake name and strange company.

    And she is director of this company "Innopraktika", which looks like it can be just a way to cut money from the budget (similar to Rosnano).

    Her "company" seems like a machine for money laundering with Leonid Mikhelson, Sergey Chemezov and Igor Sechin.

    https://innopraktika.ru/company/popechitelskiy-sovet/


    -

    Giving fake names to the children is not only from Putin though. Poroshenko's children also use fake names. But they are very easy to find and they also appear publicly with Poroshenko. It's only with Putin there is this total "secrecy" about his daughters, even as he gives important jobs to one of them.

    Why does he choose to keep his daughters identities incognito? Are they ‘illegitimate’ or what?

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    Maybe they value their privacy.
  182. @Mr. Hack
    Why does he choose to keep his daughters identities incognito? Are they 'illegitimate' or what?

    Maybe they value their privacy.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    It's fair for private people. (I found Poroshenko's children's social media, and they seem normal people from it, just that they changed their family name in public. Also they appear in public as themselves in Ukrainian media).

    But Putin's daughter was anonymized and hidden, while at the same time placed as an important public figure (with invented name, although now "open secret") in the center of the group which owns much of country's wealth, and her company received billions of dollars of funding.

    Her trustees are:

    * Leonid Mikhelson - richest man in Russia, owner of Novatek
    * Dmitry Konov - placeholder for Sibur
    * Igor Sechin - director of Rosneft
    * Sergey Chemezov - director of Rostec
    * Boris Kovalchuk - son of supposedly "banker of Putin"

    Developing technology and future industries, is objectively the most important national priority now, but also making companies related to technology is a fashionable way for officials to channel money from a government budget to your Swiss bank account (like Rosnano), or from the private sector company which wants government protection or contracts, to your Swiss bank account.

    Rosnano at least partly seemed to be for money laundering. Years after all its hypebeasting and promises, the hipster children of the Rosnano directors are producing videos of themselves in their luxury apartments in Florida on their social media accounts. And Rosnano website just boasts that their credit rating was recently upgraded from junk bond status.

    Surkov in his funny speech in London School of Economics, was saying that even with the corruptions scandals, Skolkovo is the cleanest project. And it is true with Skolkovo, you can verify they are doing now a lot of real work, so perhaps Surkov was right.

    But Innopraktika - Lol what are they even doing?

    They seem to publish a magazine about technology in Russia, and operate a lot of publicity events, networking events, and they publish some surveys about technology.

    Also they produce expensive looking videos for YouTube (which only 100 people watch) about topics like electric cars and the importance of using "3D tools" in education.

  183. @DFH
    AK tweeted about 'the Swine Right' being responsible for cutting science funding in Brazil, but in fact the very article he tweeted attributes the cuts to hyper-educated neoliberal Americanophile technocrat Paolo Guedes in opposition to the initial inclinations of Bolsonaro himself

    Yes, I should have read to the end. Trust Nature to come up with headlines.

  184. @Yevardian
    Maybe they value their privacy.

    It’s fair for private people. (I found Poroshenko’s children’s social media, and they seem normal people from it, just that they changed their family name in public. Also they appear in public as themselves in Ukrainian media).

    But Putin’s daughter was anonymized and hidden, while at the same time placed as an important public figure (with invented name, although now “open secret”) in the center of the group which owns much of country’s wealth, and her company received billions of dollars of funding.

    Her trustees are:

    * Leonid Mikhelson – richest man in Russia, owner of Novatek
    * Dmitry Konov – placeholder for Sibur
    * Igor Sechin – director of Rosneft
    * Sergey Chemezov – director of Rostec
    * Boris Kovalchuk – son of supposedly “banker of Putin”

    Developing technology and future industries, is objectively the most important national priority now, but also making companies related to technology is a fashionable way for officials to channel money from a government budget to your Swiss bank account (like Rosnano), or from the private sector company which wants government protection or contracts, to your Swiss bank account.

    Rosnano at least partly seemed to be for money laundering. Years after all its hypebeasting and promises, the hipster children of the Rosnano directors are producing videos of themselves in their luxury apartments in Florida on their social media accounts. And Rosnano website just boasts that their credit rating was recently upgraded from junk bond status.

    Surkov in his funny speech in London School of Economics, was saying that even with the corruptions scandals, Skolkovo is the cleanest project. And it is true with Skolkovo, you can verify they are doing now a lot of real work, so perhaps Surkov was right.

    But Innopraktika – Lol what are they even doing?

    They seem to publish a magazine about technology in Russia, and operate a lot of publicity events, networking events, and they publish some surveys about technology.

    Also they produce expensive looking videos for YouTube (which only 100 people watch) about topics like electric cars and the importance of using “3D tools” in education.

    • Replies: @anon

    Rosnano
     
    Russian Corporation of Nanotechnologies? It fits, there is argument that all "science" of nanotechnology is nothing than big worldwide scam.

    https://scottlocklin.wordpress.com/2010/08/24/nano-nonsense-25-years-of-charlatanry/
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    From discussions with a person well informed on the issue - $5 billion (or $10 billion, or whatever number they invested a decade ago) was well out of proportion to the real nanotechnology market in Russia, then or even now. Consequently, all sorts of companies with only the most tangential connections to nanotech (e.g. surface coating producers) started applying for grants from Rosnano. Hence why this foundation hasn't done much, and has in fact invested (IIRC) most of its assets in foreign companies.
  185. @Dmitry
    It's fair for private people. (I found Poroshenko's children's social media, and they seem normal people from it, just that they changed their family name in public. Also they appear in public as themselves in Ukrainian media).

    But Putin's daughter was anonymized and hidden, while at the same time placed as an important public figure (with invented name, although now "open secret") in the center of the group which owns much of country's wealth, and her company received billions of dollars of funding.

    Her trustees are:

    * Leonid Mikhelson - richest man in Russia, owner of Novatek
    * Dmitry Konov - placeholder for Sibur
    * Igor Sechin - director of Rosneft
    * Sergey Chemezov - director of Rostec
    * Boris Kovalchuk - son of supposedly "banker of Putin"

    Developing technology and future industries, is objectively the most important national priority now, but also making companies related to technology is a fashionable way for officials to channel money from a government budget to your Swiss bank account (like Rosnano), or from the private sector company which wants government protection or contracts, to your Swiss bank account.

    Rosnano at least partly seemed to be for money laundering. Years after all its hypebeasting and promises, the hipster children of the Rosnano directors are producing videos of themselves in their luxury apartments in Florida on their social media accounts. And Rosnano website just boasts that their credit rating was recently upgraded from junk bond status.

    Surkov in his funny speech in London School of Economics, was saying that even with the corruptions scandals, Skolkovo is the cleanest project. And it is true with Skolkovo, you can verify they are doing now a lot of real work, so perhaps Surkov was right.

    But Innopraktika - Lol what are they even doing?

    They seem to publish a magazine about technology in Russia, and operate a lot of publicity events, networking events, and they publish some surveys about technology.

    Also they produce expensive looking videos for YouTube (which only 100 people watch) about topics like electric cars and the importance of using "3D tools" in education.

    Rosnano

    Russian Corporation of Nanotechnologies? It fits, there is argument that all “science” of nanotechnology is nothing than big worldwide scam.

    https://scottlocklin.wordpress.com/2010/08/24/nano-nonsense-25-years-of-charlatanry/

  186. @Dmitry
    It's fair for private people. (I found Poroshenko's children's social media, and they seem normal people from it, just that they changed their family name in public. Also they appear in public as themselves in Ukrainian media).

    But Putin's daughter was anonymized and hidden, while at the same time placed as an important public figure (with invented name, although now "open secret") in the center of the group which owns much of country's wealth, and her company received billions of dollars of funding.

    Her trustees are:

    * Leonid Mikhelson - richest man in Russia, owner of Novatek
    * Dmitry Konov - placeholder for Sibur
    * Igor Sechin - director of Rosneft
    * Sergey Chemezov - director of Rostec
    * Boris Kovalchuk - son of supposedly "banker of Putin"

    Developing technology and future industries, is objectively the most important national priority now, but also making companies related to technology is a fashionable way for officials to channel money from a government budget to your Swiss bank account (like Rosnano), or from the private sector company which wants government protection or contracts, to your Swiss bank account.

    Rosnano at least partly seemed to be for money laundering. Years after all its hypebeasting and promises, the hipster children of the Rosnano directors are producing videos of themselves in their luxury apartments in Florida on their social media accounts. And Rosnano website just boasts that their credit rating was recently upgraded from junk bond status.

    Surkov in his funny speech in London School of Economics, was saying that even with the corruptions scandals, Skolkovo is the cleanest project. And it is true with Skolkovo, you can verify they are doing now a lot of real work, so perhaps Surkov was right.

    But Innopraktika - Lol what are they even doing?

    They seem to publish a magazine about technology in Russia, and operate a lot of publicity events, networking events, and they publish some surveys about technology.

    Also they produce expensive looking videos for YouTube (which only 100 people watch) about topics like electric cars and the importance of using "3D tools" in education.

    From discussions with a person well informed on the issue – $5 billion (or $10 billion, or whatever number they invested a decade ago) was well out of proportion to the real nanotechnology market in Russia, then or even now. Consequently, all sorts of companies with only the most tangential connections to nanotech (e.g. surface coating producers) started applying for grants from Rosnano. Hence why this foundation hasn’t done much, and has in fact invested (IIRC) most of its assets in foreign companies.

  187. @Dmitry
    With Putin, it's weirder though, because the daughter is "secretly" his daughter. They gave her a fake name and never said her identity publicly.

    It was only a few years ago, that bloggers first disclosed her identity. And then it was from the combination of her face and her randomly high positions.

    What's strange is how now - after her identical is "open secret"- they are publicizing her on television, without saying who she is. They just interview her as a scientist with her fake name and strange company.

    And she is director of this company "Innopraktika", which looks like it can be just a way to cut money from the budget (similar to Rosnano).

    Her "company" seems like a machine for money laundering with Leonid Mikhelson, Sergey Chemezov and Igor Sechin.

    https://innopraktika.ru/company/popechitelskiy-sovet/


    -

    Giving fake names to the children is not only from Putin though. Poroshenko's children also use fake names. But they are very easy to find and they also appear publicly with Poroshenko. It's only with Putin there is this total "secrecy" about his daughters, even as he gives important jobs to one of them.

    We do not know if that if that is his daughter. Does the professional rock&roll acrobatics for her previous job sound plausible for the daughter of one of the most powerful men in the world?

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    This company she directs, is going to receive funding to build a project (so it will maybe do something useful) in Krasnoyarsk, from Nornickel (Potanin and Deripaska) and RUSAL (Deripaska).

    So at least it's not just cutting from the budget, but it's also going to be like a tax on two more dysfunctional oligarchs (Potanin and Deripaska) for building a project in Krasnoyarsk.

    -

    Also Putin's oldest daughter is an endocrinologist, and directs the endocrinology charity which is part of Alfa Group (Alfa-Endo). Alfa Group apparently funded $100 million dollars to create this charity for her.

    Alfa-Endo is almost Alfa Group's main charity. There's no way that Alfa Group's main charity is especially for endocrinology, if this wasn't to reflect especially the profession of Putin's oldest daughter.

    Alfa Group's support for the oldest daughter is maybe more surprising, than the list of usual "inner circle" people funding the youngest daughter. Alfa Group oligarchs have all avoided American sanctions. They pretend they are more distant from the Kremlin and are Westernizers and "international businessmen" who are based in London. I guess Putin allows them to say this, so they are not sanctioned by the West.

  188. OK Karlin…enough of this nonsense. I have rehabilitated 100% now and am ready for Gérard2 to be reinstalled……even though I have been more sinned against than sinner on this blog

    NOW

    I repeat…….,NOW

    No more abusive language from myself, however the justified it is

    As a reward to you for this….l will be Godparent to any of your children.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • LOL: Dmitry
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Ok, since you asked nicely.
  189. @Gerad. 1
    OK Karlin...enough of this nonsense. I have rehabilitated 100% now and am ready for Gérard2 to be reinstalled......even though I have been more sinned against than sinner on this blog

    NOW

    I repeat.......,NOW

    No more abusive language from myself, however the justified it is

    As a reward to you for this....l will be Godparent to any of your children.

    Ok, since you asked nicely.

  190. Labour backbenchers, including Diana Johnson, Stephen Kinnock, Stephanie Peacock, Siobhain McDonagh and Stella Creasy, have distanced themselves from the leadership by urging Sweden to reopen its investigation into allegations of sexual assault against Assange.

    Further evidence of the brilliance of the ‘rape’ smear.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Further evidence of the staggering genius of Mike Pence.
  191. I for one will be greatly saddened if Gerard2 ceases to use abusive language.

    The more abusive the language on the internet the better.

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    Yeah, who else misses Andrei Martyanov's Jihad against this blog?
  192. @DFH

    Labour backbenchers, including Diana Johnson, Stephen Kinnock, Stephanie Peacock, Siobhain McDonagh and Stella Creasy, have distanced themselves from the leadership by urging Sweden to reopen its investigation into allegations of sexual assault against Assange.

     

    Further evidence of the brilliance of the 'rape' smear.

    Further evidence of the staggering genius of Mike Pence.

  193. @Gerad. 1
    We do not know if that if that is his daughter. Does the professional rock&roll acrobatics for her previous job sound plausible for the daughter of one of the most powerful men in the world?

    This company she directs, is going to receive funding to build a project (so it will maybe do something useful) in Krasnoyarsk, from Nornickel (Potanin and Deripaska) and RUSAL (Deripaska).

    So at least it’s not just cutting from the budget, but it’s also going to be like a tax on two more dysfunctional oligarchs (Potanin and Deripaska) for building a project in Krasnoyarsk.

    Also Putin’s oldest daughter is an endocrinologist, and directs the endocrinology charity which is part of Alfa Group (Alfa-Endo). Alfa Group apparently funded $100 million dollars to create this charity for her.

    Alfa-Endo is almost Alfa Group’s main charity. There’s no way that Alfa Group’s main charity is especially for endocrinology, if this wasn’t to reflect especially the profession of Putin’s oldest daughter.

    Alfa Group’s support for the oldest daughter is maybe more surprising, than the list of usual “inner circle” people funding the youngest daughter. Alfa Group oligarchs have all avoided American sanctions. They pretend they are more distant from the Kremlin and are Westernizers and “international businessmen” who are based in London. I guess Putin allows them to say this, so they are not sanctioned by the West.

  194. Austria considering ending anonymity on the major platforms:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6914991/Austria-considers-making-internet-users-REGISTER-providers-prevent-anonymous-hate-speech.html

    German_reader merits praise for his early criticism of Sebastian Kurz.

    The good news is that it does not apply to the internet as a whole. In fact presumably the law could easily be circumvented with a VPN.

    • Replies: @songbird
    On a purely tangential note, one thing I find really odd about German politics is the mania for getting a permanent seat on the UN Security Council. I mean, it is even in the AfD platform - you would think they would be for defunding the UN.

    From the map of UN votes in the Assange thread, it does not look like Germany would veto anything that the other Western members do not veto.

    Honestly, IMO, this is behavior that we would expect from Brazil, which has the ambition to be a global player, and so a cargo cult of trying to copy actual powers. Germany is a real country, or at least was. The UN is a purely evil, illegitimate body worse even than the EU parliament, which for example, has Joacine Katar-Moreira - spitting, stuttering Bantu feminist from Guinea-Bissau - running for it in Portugal.

    I attribute it to post-war psychosis, much like German's atomophobia, or their psychological inability to drink tap water, they aspire to be at the head of the new League of Nations, to prevent world conflicts. It doesn't matter that it is a worthless, corrupt and inherently evil organization, which is fostering world conflicts by supporting mass migration.
    , @for-the-record
    In fact presumably the law could easily be circumvented with a VPN.

    How long until VPNs are outlawed? (I assume there is a practical way of doing this)
  195. @reiner Tor

    “Őszöd Speech”
     
    It wasn't just the speech itself.

    Gyurcsány came to power in 2004 as a result of an intra-party coup (a group of Socialist notabilities helped by the Free Democrat coalition partners), and then he immediately started to increase the budget deficit to unprecedented levels. It was a big problem for the economy because the Socialist government had already increased deficit spending to very high levels right after in 2002 they managed to eke out a small victory over Orbán, and Orbán had already increased spending right before the election. (This increase was relatively small actually, but was constantly blamed by the socialists for the higher deficit years later.) Gyurcsány also cut the (admittedly very high) VAT from 25% to just 20%. He privatized the Budapest Airport in a questionable deal (indirectly it led to the later bankruptcy of the national airlines) and wasted the amount immediately. The socialists also built many highways at exorbitant prices. (Hungary is a totally flat country with very few and short mountains, and yet famously their highways included a large viaduct and a number of tunnels, to overcome some very small hills. People were outraged at this kind of waste.)

    All this resulted in Hungary having the lowest economic growth and by far the highest budget deficit of all ex-communist EU member states (or probably even including non-EU members like Serbia; perhaps even Ukraine performed better than Hungary 2002-2008).

    Gyurcsány managed to win the elections in 2006, which marked a low point in Orbán's popularity. There was even a chance that he'd lose control of his party.

    The Őszöd Speech was a secret speech told to a gathering of Socialist MPs in May, right after the election had been won. Gyurcsány tried to get support for his new policies cutting the budget deficit. This included raising VAT back to 23% (now in the wake of the 2008 crisis it's still higher), less than half a year after it had been cut, and several similar measures were taken. Because they were reluctant to cut gibsmedats, most measures pointed to raising the already very high tax rates, besides the already mentioned VAT it included health insurance fees (basically it was already a health tax before, but now they transformed it fully into a tax with no maximum amount to be paid and increased rates), the pension contributions (again, basically a pension tax, they made away with the maximum limit and increased the rates), and they also raised the already very high (even in Western European comparison) marginal personal income tax rates (which kicked in already not much higher than the average income).

    Since Gyurcsány won on a platform of having given lots of gibsmedats, lowering VAT, and promising more of the same and a bright economic future, ridiculing Fidesz statements about the horrible state of the economy, he found himself already in a very difficult situation when he tried to introduce "reforms" (basically a huge austerity package).

    Against this background, the Őszöd Speech came like a bombshell: it was basically an admission of guilt, that he knowingly destroyed the Hungarian economy only to win the election. It sounded like an extremely cynical policy, and though I don't think Gyurcsány was that cynical (he was simply not very self-aware), his whole policy certainly was cynical to the extreme: making the economy extremely vulnerable, destroying economic growth and long term prospects, only to win one election. (Though he probably expected to be able to win again in 2010 after a couple years of austerity in 2006-7. He didn't understand that when you have a budget deficit in excess of 10% of GDP, you cannot quickly reign in on that. He also didn't understand the risks of a global recession, though in all fairness no one expected the Great Recession.)

    The speech contained sentences easy to quote, like "we lied in the morning, at night and in the evening" (during the 1956 revolution a - by then formerly - communist half-Jewish writer said in the radio that "we lied during the night, we lied during daylight, on all wavelengths," Gyurcsány probably quoted from it), it contained lots of equally quotable cuss words (e.g. "ez a kurva ország" - literally "this whore country," in English I'd perhaps say "fucking country," or "elkúrtuk" - "we fucked it up"; the former was often quoted to depict what he thinks of Hungary, the latter was chanted during protests "you fucked it up!"), and so it led to riots.

    Had Gyurcsány resigned at this point and called snap elections, Orbán would've become prime minister in early 2007, but with no supermajority, and probably he'd have lost an election since then - most likely he wouldn't have survived more than one election cycle, since the financial crisis and the Great Recession arrived in 2008, and would've destroyed Orbán's hopes of a reelection. Instead, Gyurcsány clung to power, but then was forced to resign in early 2009 after the financial crisis and IMF package destroyed the rest of his support. At this point they could still have avoided a Fidesz supermajority, had they called snap election in early 2009, but instead they searched for a new prime minister. (It became like a parody, so many candidates' names were leaked to the press only to deny that they ever wanted to become prime ministers - everyone understood being a Socialist premier was toxic at this point; it was extremely ridiculous, people were sending around text messages like "Hi, I'm Ferenc Gyurcsany, prime minister of Hungary. Would you like to be the next prime minister? If not, please forward this text to someone.") Finally they found a globalist technocrat (who later chose a career as CEO of a French company over Hungarian politics), a then government minister, for the job. (Ridiculously enough the Socialist Party congress sang the International with this globalist ex- and soon-to-be CEO on stage, he was visibly embarrassed...) But this last year of constant austerity finally pushed Orbán to a supermajority.

    e.g. “ez a kurva ország” – literally “this whore country,”

    How interesting that Hungarian uses loan words from its Slavic neighbors for profane expressions.

    Coincidentally or not, the same happens with Basque, another European language isolate. While talking in our native language, we swear using only Spanish (or French) words. The harshest insult I can think of in Basque is madarikatu (damned), which is also most likely derived from Latin.

    Our teachers at school used to tell us that this was a reflection of our higher moral character compared to our neighbors, especially those to the South. But this explanation is highly dubious because, regardless of the Spanish root of our curse words, we tend to swear very profusely. Almost at Polish or Irish levels, I’d say.

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    How is the situation of Euskara on the ground?
    Is it growing, slowly dying, or just keeping up? Considering that Welsh and Irish are moribund despite decades of state support, I'd be surprised if it was doing well. Incidentally, can anyone think of a almost-dead or dead language that was successfully revived other than Hebrew?
    I've heard that Estonian and the Baltic languages were in steep decline with even peasants shifting away to Russian or Polish, but I don't know how exaggerated that is.
    It's too bad Spain didn't get involved in WW1 or 2 so it could get rightfully partitioned.
  196. @Thorfinnsson
    I for one will be greatly saddened if Gerard2 ceases to use abusive language.

    The more abusive the language on the internet the better.

    Yeah, who else misses Andrei Martyanov’s Jihad against this blog?

  197. @Mikel

    e.g. “ez a kurva ország” – literally “this whore country,”
     
    How interesting that Hungarian uses loan words from its Slavic neighbors for profane expressions.

    Coincidentally or not, the same happens with Basque, another European language isolate. While talking in our native language, we swear using only Spanish (or French) words. The harshest insult I can think of in Basque is madarikatu (damned), which is also most likely derived from Latin.

    Our teachers at school used to tell us that this was a reflection of our higher moral character compared to our neighbors, especially those to the South. But this explanation is highly dubious because, regardless of the Spanish root of our curse words, we tend to swear very profusely. Almost at Polish or Irish levels, I'd say.

    How is the situation of Euskara on the ground?
    Is it growing, slowly dying, or just keeping up? Considering that Welsh and Irish are moribund despite decades of state support, I’d be surprised if it was doing well. Incidentally, can anyone think of a almost-dead or dead language that was successfully revived other than Hebrew?
    I’ve heard that Estonian and the Baltic languages were in steep decline with even peasants shifting away to Russian or Polish, but I don’t know how exaggerated that is.
    It’s too bad Spain didn’t get involved in WW1 or 2 so it could get rightfully partitioned.

    • Replies: @Mikel

    How is the situation of Euskara on the ground?

     

    Quite depressing, even though the percentage of people who declare themselves Basque speakers keeps increasing. But this is just a consequence of autonomous Basque authorities having made learning of the Basque language mandatory at schools in the last couple of decades. However, what many people end up speaking is an artificial mixture of unified Basque (a sort of Hochdeutsch) with Spanish. From what I read, it must be similar to the Surzhyk spoken in Ukraine.

    I don't think Basque will die in rural areas though. I'm not sure exactly what it is but there must be something that has made our archaic language survive through millennia. Perhaps some kind of proto-HBD awareness and dislike for foreign newcomers... something of the like, I think.

    It’s too bad Spain didn’t get involved in WW1 or 2 so it could get rightfully partitioned.

     

    Yes, maybe, if the outcome hadn't be too bloody. But it's probably very late now. I'd like to see an independent Basque Country in my lifetime but is it really worth it when ~60% of the population descends from Spanish/French immigrants? Would Latvian or Ukrainian independence have any meaning it if a majority of Latvian/Ukrainian citizens were ethnic Russians?
    , @Jaakko Raipala

    I’ve heard that Estonian and the Baltic languages were in steep decline with even peasants shifting away to Russian or Polish, but I don’t know how exaggerated that is.
     
    There was never any shift to Russian among Estonians as Russian was always a low status language even compared to Estonian. Estonia had German elites but there wasn't much shifting to German as it remained the language of fairly closed castes like merchants, landowners etc that Estonians couldn't join so Estonian ended up a remarkably preserved language, although extremely heavily influenced by German.

    Slavic cultures in general have low prestige in Lutheran countries where the prime measure of civilization level is how German something is. There used to be lots of tribes closely related to Estonians nearby that converted from paganism to Orthodoxy centuries ago and they all gradually russified as they didn't share the pro-Germanic, anti-Slavic cultural orientation.

    Estonians were forced to learn Russian during the Soviet period but that was resented and only some true believer commies tried to abandon their native language.
    , @Dmitry
    You see it on the signs there and you hear people speaking it if you visit there (they probably teach it in all schools).

    But when I heard it, Euskara sounds almost just Spanish (for example, I heard it in supermarket announcements), because it incorporates a lot of Spanish words and they say it with some totally Spanish accent.

    While on the other side of the border, it will sound more like French.

  198. @Yevardian
    How is the situation of Euskara on the ground?
    Is it growing, slowly dying, or just keeping up? Considering that Welsh and Irish are moribund despite decades of state support, I'd be surprised if it was doing well. Incidentally, can anyone think of a almost-dead or dead language that was successfully revived other than Hebrew?
    I've heard that Estonian and the Baltic languages were in steep decline with even peasants shifting away to Russian or Polish, but I don't know how exaggerated that is.
    It's too bad Spain didn't get involved in WW1 or 2 so it could get rightfully partitioned.

    How is the situation of Euskara on the ground?

    Quite depressing, even though the percentage of people who declare themselves Basque speakers keeps increasing. But this is just a consequence of autonomous Basque authorities having made learning of the Basque language mandatory at schools in the last couple of decades. However, what many people end up speaking is an artificial mixture of unified Basque (a sort of Hochdeutsch) with Spanish. From what I read, it must be similar to the Surzhyk spoken in Ukraine.

    I don’t think Basque will die in rural areas though. I’m not sure exactly what it is but there must be something that has made our archaic language survive through millennia. Perhaps some kind of proto-HBD awareness and dislike for foreign newcomers… something of the like, I think.

    It’s too bad Spain didn’t get involved in WW1 or 2 so it could get rightfully partitioned.

    Yes, maybe, if the outcome hadn’t be too bloody. But it’s probably very late now. I’d like to see an independent Basque Country in my lifetime but is it really worth it when ~60% of the population descends from Spanish/French immigrants? Would Latvian or Ukrainian independence have any meaning it if a majority of Latvian/Ukrainian citizens were ethnic Russians?

    • Replies: @DFH

    Perhaps some kind of proto-HBD awareness
     
    You don't say;

    El roce de nuestro pueblo con el español causa inmediata y necesariamente en nuestra raza ignorancia y extravío de inteligencia, debilidad y corrupción de corazón, apartamiento total, en una palabra, del fin de toda humana sociedad.
     
    from Sabino Arana
    , @Jaakko Raipala

    Would Latvian or Ukrainian independence have any meaning it if a majority of Latvian/Ukrainian citizens were ethnic Russians?
     
    Latvians were a minority in Latvia at the end of the USSR. It does seem to have meaning for them as their population is collapsing slightly less fast than that of the Russians and the other peoples that the USSR dragged into Latvia. The Latvian share of the collapsing population is increasing so they'll get a moment as a comfortable majority just before they disappear...
  199. @Mikel

    How is the situation of Euskara on the ground?

     

    Quite depressing, even though the percentage of people who declare themselves Basque speakers keeps increasing. But this is just a consequence of autonomous Basque authorities having made learning of the Basque language mandatory at schools in the last couple of decades. However, what many people end up speaking is an artificial mixture of unified Basque (a sort of Hochdeutsch) with Spanish. From what I read, it must be similar to the Surzhyk spoken in Ukraine.

    I don't think Basque will die in rural areas though. I'm not sure exactly what it is but there must be something that has made our archaic language survive through millennia. Perhaps some kind of proto-HBD awareness and dislike for foreign newcomers... something of the like, I think.

    It’s too bad Spain didn’t get involved in WW1 or 2 so it could get rightfully partitioned.

     

    Yes, maybe, if the outcome hadn't be too bloody. But it's probably very late now. I'd like to see an independent Basque Country in my lifetime but is it really worth it when ~60% of the population descends from Spanish/French immigrants? Would Latvian or Ukrainian independence have any meaning it if a majority of Latvian/Ukrainian citizens were ethnic Russians?

    Perhaps some kind of proto-HBD awareness

    You don’t say;

    El roce de nuestro pueblo con el español causa inmediata y necesariamente en nuestra raza ignorancia y extravío de inteligencia, debilidad y corrupción de corazón, apartamiento total, en una palabra, del fin de toda humana sociedad.

    from Sabino Arana

  200. @Yevardian
    Must have missed this, I wouldn't have thought he had it in him.

    So many people actually think that Romania is now better governed than Hungary. It’s also well-known that Romanian diplomacy (and political maneuvering) was better than Hungarian in the era 1914-1945 (and probably earlier), though a lot of it could be the result of Hungary not having an independent diplomatic corps before the events 1918-20.
     
    Hard to say, may be a "greener grass" effect. I've never been to Hungary, so I can't say. Has Hungary haemorrhaged talent anything like Romania though? Romania has gone from ~23 million to perhaps ~19 million in 30 years. Hungary certainly started from a far higher base living standard in 89, which makes it hard to compare to Romania. Certainly your description of the years (worse then Serbia? really? ) between 2000-2010 were a surprise to me.
    I suppose if you take into account the legacy of the Yugoslav Wars and Ceauşescu, Hungary doesn't have an excuse for such mismanagement.

    Yeah, The Mineriad, I wasn't sure if they were known by that name outside Romania.

    Has Hungary haemorrhaged talent anything like Romania though? Romania has gone from ~23 million to perhaps ~19 million in 30 years.

    Hungary’s natural population growth has been negative since 1981, its TFR has been below 2.1 since 1958 (except three years 1975-77), which is I think the longest decline in all of Europe. In 1981 the Hungarian population was around 10.8 million, now it’s over a million lower (so a 10% decline since then), but a lot of problems were masked by mass immigration by ethnic Hungarians from neighboring countries (I think well over 500,000), so population decline would be comparable to Romania. Of course, there’s been an ongoing trickle of immigration from elsewhere (Vietnam, China, the Arab world, or recently Ukrainians), which was also maybe 2-300,000 or more. (I’m lazy now to look up the numbers.)

    Emigration has only picked up around 2011 (mostly as a combined response to abolishing EU restrictions and the cumulative pressure of several years of financial crisis, also as networks of Hungarians already working abroad took off – there’s always a cumulative effect, more emigration will lead to ever more emigration), but I don’t think it’s because Hungary was so much better managed than Romania. One reason is obviously the already higher living standards (despite the mismanagement, they are still higher in Hungary than Romania), so the pull of higher Western European living standards would be lower.

    But the big reason is language: Romanians can easily emigrate to France, Italy, Spain, and already roughly understand the language or make themselves understood. Even Slavic speakers can easily learn Germanic languages. Whereas for Hungarians any European language is horribly difficult to learn. (The same difficulty you experience while trying to learn Hungarian.) So knowledge of foreign languages is relatively among the very lowest in Europe. This might actually have an advantage: it might make Hungary more “based” than other European countries, as it’s more difficult for foreign trends to be picked up.

    Still, English is not a very difficult language anyway, and language skills among the youth have been improving tremendously since the early 1990s. So don’t expect that situation to persist.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
  201. @Yevardian
    Must have missed this, I wouldn't have thought he had it in him.

    So many people actually think that Romania is now better governed than Hungary. It’s also well-known that Romanian diplomacy (and political maneuvering) was better than Hungarian in the era 1914-1945 (and probably earlier), though a lot of it could be the result of Hungary not having an independent diplomatic corps before the events 1918-20.
     
    Hard to say, may be a "greener grass" effect. I've never been to Hungary, so I can't say. Has Hungary haemorrhaged talent anything like Romania though? Romania has gone from ~23 million to perhaps ~19 million in 30 years. Hungary certainly started from a far higher base living standard in 89, which makes it hard to compare to Romania. Certainly your description of the years (worse then Serbia? really? ) between 2000-2010 were a surprise to me.
    I suppose if you take into account the legacy of the Yugoslav Wars and Ceauşescu, Hungary doesn't have an excuse for such mismanagement.

    Yeah, The Mineriad, I wasn't sure if they were known by that name outside Romania.

    the years (worse then Serbia? really? ) between 2000-2010 were a surprise to me.

    2002-2008 were the years with the most serious mismanagement. By 2009 the country was already under IMF tutelage, though of course governance was fully neoliberal, which was probably not optimal either. I don’t think it was markedly worse than most of our neighbors since 2009, but the damage was already done.

    I suppose if you take into account the legacy of the Yugoslav Wars and Ceauşescu, Hungary doesn’t have an excuse for such mismanagement.

    On the other hand, we inherited by far the largest external debt (along with Poland) from the communists, and unlike Poland, our debts weren’t forgiven at all, while the Poles had some 75% of their external debt forgiven.

  202. @Anonymous
    Yes their preoccupation with genocide, ethnic cleansing, nuclear war etc. is surely evidence of a humanistic, progressive world view.

    No ideology could possibly be more evil and nihilistic than a “humanistic, progressive world view”. Humanism is the apex of self-destruction.

    “…and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.”

    • Agree: DFH
  203. @Yevardian
    How is the situation of Euskara on the ground?
    Is it growing, slowly dying, or just keeping up? Considering that Welsh and Irish are moribund despite decades of state support, I'd be surprised if it was doing well. Incidentally, can anyone think of a almost-dead or dead language that was successfully revived other than Hebrew?
    I've heard that Estonian and the Baltic languages were in steep decline with even peasants shifting away to Russian or Polish, but I don't know how exaggerated that is.
    It's too bad Spain didn't get involved in WW1 or 2 so it could get rightfully partitioned.

    I’ve heard that Estonian and the Baltic languages were in steep decline with even peasants shifting away to Russian or Polish, but I don’t know how exaggerated that is.

    There was never any shift to Russian among Estonians as Russian was always a low status language even compared to Estonian. Estonia had German elites but there wasn’t much shifting to German as it remained the language of fairly closed castes like merchants, landowners etc that Estonians couldn’t join so Estonian ended up a remarkably preserved language, although extremely heavily influenced by German.

    Slavic cultures in general have low prestige in Lutheran countries where the prime measure of civilization level is how German something is. There used to be lots of tribes closely related to Estonians nearby that converted from paganism to Orthodoxy centuries ago and they all gradually russified as they didn’t share the pro-Germanic, anti-Slavic cultural orientation.

    Estonians were forced to learn Russian during the Soviet period but that was resented and only some true believer commies tried to abandon their native language.

  204. @Mikel

    How is the situation of Euskara on the ground?

     

    Quite depressing, even though the percentage of people who declare themselves Basque speakers keeps increasing. But this is just a consequence of autonomous Basque authorities having made learning of the Basque language mandatory at schools in the last couple of decades. However, what many people end up speaking is an artificial mixture of unified Basque (a sort of Hochdeutsch) with Spanish. From what I read, it must be similar to the Surzhyk spoken in Ukraine.

    I don't think Basque will die in rural areas though. I'm not sure exactly what it is but there must be something that has made our archaic language survive through millennia. Perhaps some kind of proto-HBD awareness and dislike for foreign newcomers... something of the like, I think.

    It’s too bad Spain didn’t get involved in WW1 or 2 so it could get rightfully partitioned.

     

    Yes, maybe, if the outcome hadn't be too bloody. But it's probably very late now. I'd like to see an independent Basque Country in my lifetime but is it really worth it when ~60% of the population descends from Spanish/French immigrants? Would Latvian or Ukrainian independence have any meaning it if a majority of Latvian/Ukrainian citizens were ethnic Russians?

    Would Latvian or Ukrainian independence have any meaning it if a majority of Latvian/Ukrainian citizens were ethnic Russians?

    Latvians were a minority in Latvia at the end of the USSR. It does seem to have meaning for them as their population is collapsing slightly less fast than that of the Russians and the other peoples that the USSR dragged into Latvia. The Latvian share of the collapsing population is increasing so they’ll get a moment as a comfortable majority just before they disappear…

    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    Latvians were a minority in Latvia at the end of the USSR.
     
    I believe it was slightly above 50%, but they could deny Latvian citizenship to anyone who or whose ancestors weren’t Latvian citizens before 1940. (It was somewhat harder for them to get citizenship than in Latvia, but those who wanted and learned the language received it relatively quickly. Fortunately for the Latvians, many or perhaps most Russians refused to go through this process.)

    I don’t think the situation in Basque Country would be comparable.
  205. @Jaakko Raipala

    Would Latvian or Ukrainian independence have any meaning it if a majority of Latvian/Ukrainian citizens were ethnic Russians?
     
    Latvians were a minority in Latvia at the end of the USSR. It does seem to have meaning for them as their population is collapsing slightly less fast than that of the Russians and the other peoples that the USSR dragged into Latvia. The Latvian share of the collapsing population is increasing so they'll get a moment as a comfortable majority just before they disappear...

    Latvians were a minority in Latvia at the end of the USSR.

    I believe it was slightly above 50%, but they could deny Latvian citizenship to anyone who or whose ancestors weren’t Latvian citizens before 1940. (It was somewhat harder for them to get citizenship than in Latvia, but those who wanted and learned the language received it relatively quickly. Fortunately for the Latvians, many or perhaps most Russians refused to go through this process.)

    I don’t think the situation in Basque Country would be comparable.

  206. American Decade is a very cool article

    Some details about France

    I can assure you that the end of the topless on the beaches has nothing to do with the conservatism of the young generations. We have a strong Muslim immigration since the 80s

    White girls no longer dare strip themselves on the beach for fear of being assaulted. The only women stripping on our southern beaches are Russian, American or Dutch

    On the French birth rate, known as the highest in Europe, it is distorted by our recent immigration of Africans

    Afro-descendant women make 4 children on average, for 2.5 for Arab-descendants

    White women must be approximately 1.6 children but as the ethnic statistics are prohibited by the French Constitution, we will never know the real figures

    France is the most invaded country in Europe

    40% of children born in maternity hospitals are screened for Sickle Cell Disease (a serious disease that only affects Africans and Arabs)

    This figure reaches 73% in the most populous and dynamic maternity ward in Paris

    See this very official map which is our only reliable indicator for the number of non-whites in France:

    You say that Eurabia will be worse than the Aztec USA

    But you are too optimistic

    France will not be Arab-Islamic but entirely African within 20 years

    Black men do not only seduce white women but they start to breed with Arab women who are sexy enough that Latinas

     We have North Africans in France angry against African immigrants. They have screamed for years against white racism, now they are cuckolded by their black neighbors.

    The phenomenon is so massive that there is an expression “beurette à khel” which means “arab woman fucked by black men”

    Even Islamist women prefer to couple with blacks

    France may have the highest rate of mixed and mixed marriages in the world

    We will become the new Brazil

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    The phenomenon is so massive that there is an expression “beurette à khel” which means “arab woman fucked by black men”

    Even Islamist women prefer to couple with blacks
     

    The line between a slut and a jihadist is as thin as the line between a jihadist and an aspiring rapper.

    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/09/248CEDE200000578-0-image-m-12_1420842404752.jpg

    (Mother and daughter)

    https://democratieparticipative.biz/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/BErTRA6CEAA9B0C.jpg

    , @Mitleser

    Black men do not only seduce white women but they start to breed with Arab women who are sexy enough that Latinas

    We have North Africans in France angry against African immigrants. They have screamed for years against white racism, now they are cuckolded by their black neighbors.
     
    Aren't Nafris scum?

    https://www.tagesspiegel.de/images/56418261_1149985701850227_74246430103v50022656_o/24215048/3-format1009.jpg
  207. @Yevardian
    How is the situation of Euskara on the ground?
    Is it growing, slowly dying, or just keeping up? Considering that Welsh and Irish are moribund despite decades of state support, I'd be surprised if it was doing well. Incidentally, can anyone think of a almost-dead or dead language that was successfully revived other than Hebrew?
    I've heard that Estonian and the Baltic languages were in steep decline with even peasants shifting away to Russian or Polish, but I don't know how exaggerated that is.
    It's too bad Spain didn't get involved in WW1 or 2 so it could get rightfully partitioned.

    You see it on the signs there and you hear people speaking it if you visit there (they probably teach it in all schools).

    But when I heard it, Euskara sounds almost just Spanish (for example, I heard it in supermarket announcements), because it incorporates a lot of Spanish words and they say it with some totally Spanish accent.

    While on the other side of the border, it will sound more like French.

    • Replies: @Yevardian

    But when I heard it, Euskara sounds almost just Spanish (for example, I heard it in supermarket announcements), because it incorporates a lot of Spanish words and they say it with some totally Spanish accent.
     
    Are they speakers of the pue language though, or a mixed dialect? You get similar phenomena with English speakers butchering Irish and Welsh pronunciation.
  208. @Terreblanche
    American Decade is a very cool article

    @Anatoly Karlin

    Some details about France

    I can assure you that the end of the topless on the beaches has nothing to do with the conservatism of the young generations. We have a strong Muslim immigration since the 80s

    White girls no longer dare strip themselves on the beach for fear of being assaulted. The only women stripping on our southern beaches are Russian, American or Dutch

    On the French birth rate, known as the highest in Europe, it is distorted by our recent immigration of Africans

    Afro-descendant women make 4 children on average, for 2.5 for Arab-descendants

    White women must be approximately 1.6 children but as the ethnic statistics are prohibited by the French Constitution, we will never know the real figures


    France is the most invaded country in Europe

    40% of children born in maternity hospitals are screened for Sickle Cell Disease (a serious disease that only affects Africans and Arabs)

    This figure reaches 73% in the most populous and dynamic maternity ward in Paris

    See this very official map which is our only reliable indicator for the number of non-whites in France: https://www.suavelos.eu/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/DJuBx2dN-768x883.jpg


    You say that Eurabia will be worse than the Aztec USA

    But you are too optimistic

    France will not be Arab-Islamic but entirely African within 20 years

    Black men do not only seduce white women but they start to breed with Arab women who are sexy enough that Latinas

     We have North Africans in France angry against African immigrants. They have screamed for years against white racism, now they are cuckolded by their black neighbors.

    The phenomenon is so massive that there is an expression "beurette à khel" which means "arab woman fucked by black men"

    Even Islamist women prefer to couple with blacks

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDnbWb5WEAQ7ZZh.jpg

    France may have the highest rate of mixed and mixed marriages in the world

    We will become the new Brazil

    The phenomenon is so massive that there is an expression “beurette à khel” which means “arab woman fucked by black men”

    Even Islamist women prefer to couple with blacks

    The line between a slut and a jihadist is as thin as the line between a jihadist and an aspiring rapper.

    (Mother and daughter)

    • Replies: @Terreblanche
    It’s kind of ironic that in France black men steal the women of arab men meanwhile in North Africa, former slaves continue to be treated like dogs, you can insult them in the street without risking anything. Segregation is largely accepted by society , mixed unions discouraged

    Arab countries are probably the most racist places on the planet.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=mNIFblwTCEE (Anti Black Racism in Tunisia. Racism by Arabs / Muslims
    , @songbird
    In their native cultural environment, in North Africa, these women would be discouraged from this behavior or marginalized if they engaged in it. This is why it is evil to keep them in Europe, and they should be returned to their homelands.

    Fortunately, Africa has many mischling zones like Sudan or Mauritania, where their monstrous broods can be safely integrated into what passes for society.
  209. @Terreblanche
    American Decade is a very cool article

    @Anatoly Karlin

    Some details about France

    I can assure you that the end of the topless on the beaches has nothing to do with the conservatism of the young generations. We have a strong Muslim immigration since the 80s

    White girls no longer dare strip themselves on the beach for fear of being assaulted. The only women stripping on our southern beaches are Russian, American or Dutch

    On the French birth rate, known as the highest in Europe, it is distorted by our recent immigration of Africans

    Afro-descendant women make 4 children on average, for 2.5 for Arab-descendants

    White women must be approximately 1.6 children but as the ethnic statistics are prohibited by the French Constitution, we will never know the real figures


    France is the most invaded country in Europe

    40% of children born in maternity hospitals are screened for Sickle Cell Disease (a serious disease that only affects Africans and Arabs)

    This figure reaches 73% in the most populous and dynamic maternity ward in Paris

    See this very official map which is our only reliable indicator for the number of non-whites in France: https://www.suavelos.eu/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/DJuBx2dN-768x883.jpg


    You say that Eurabia will be worse than the Aztec USA

    But you are too optimistic

    France will not be Arab-Islamic but entirely African within 20 years

    Black men do not only seduce white women but they start to breed with Arab women who are sexy enough that Latinas

     We have North Africans in France angry against African immigrants. They have screamed for years against white racism, now they are cuckolded by their black neighbors.

    The phenomenon is so massive that there is an expression "beurette à khel" which means "arab woman fucked by black men"

    Even Islamist women prefer to couple with blacks

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDnbWb5WEAQ7ZZh.jpg

    France may have the highest rate of mixed and mixed marriages in the world

    We will become the new Brazil

    Black men do not only seduce white women but they start to breed with Arab women who are sexy enough that Latinas

    We have North Africans in France angry against African immigrants. They have screamed for years against white racism, now they are cuckolded by their black neighbors.

    Aren’t Nafris scum?

    • Replies: @Terreblanche
    90% of street sexual harassment in France is caused by Arab men

    This is also the case in Belgium to the point that when feminists filmed a woman walking on the street, they could not hide the ethnicity of the rude seducers

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=IlfHP-hQuw8 (Sexual Harassment In Belgium)

    , @songbird
    It is a nice billboard, but I hope they have a lot of cameras set up to capture the Leftists, when they inevitably deface it.
  210. @Thorfinnsson
    Austria considering ending anonymity on the major platforms:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6914991/Austria-considers-making-internet-users-REGISTER-providers-prevent-anonymous-hate-speech.html

    German_reader merits praise for his early criticism of Sebastian Kurz.

    The good news is that it does not apply to the internet as a whole. In fact presumably the law could easily be circumvented with a VPN.

    On a purely tangential note, one thing I find really odd about German politics is the mania for getting a permanent seat on the UN Security Council. I mean, it is even in the AfD platform – you would think they would be for defunding the UN.

    From the map of UN votes in the Assange thread, it does not look like Germany would veto anything that the other Western members do not veto.

    Honestly, IMO, this is behavior that we would expect from Brazil, which has the ambition to be a global player, and so a cargo cult of trying to copy actual powers. Germany is a real country, or at least was. The UN is a purely evil, illegitimate body worse even than the EU parliament, which for example, has Joacine Katar-Moreira – spitting, stuttering Bantu feminist from Guinea-Bissau – running for it in Portugal.

    I attribute it to post-war psychosis, much like German’s atomophobia, or their psychological inability to drink tap water, they aspire to be at the head of the new League of Nations, to prevent world conflicts. It doesn’t matter that it is a worthless, corrupt and inherently evil organization, which is fostering world conflicts by supporting mass migration.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
    I would find it odd if Germany weren't seeking a UN seat, as it is they have to go through France when Germany are the power in the EU. The UN isn't going anywhere so you have to make it work for you as best you can.
  211. @Mitleser

    Black men do not only seduce white women but they start to breed with Arab women who are sexy enough that Latinas

    We have North Africans in France angry against African immigrants. They have screamed for years against white racism, now they are cuckolded by their black neighbors.
     
    Aren't Nafris scum?

    https://www.tagesspiegel.de/images/56418261_1149985701850227_74246430103v50022656_o/24215048/3-format1009.jpg

    90% of street sexual harassment in France is caused by Arab men

    This is also the case in Belgium to the point that when feminists filmed a woman walking on the street, they could not hide the ethnicity of the rude seducers

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=IlfHP-hQuw8 (Sexual Harassment In Belgium)

  212. @Hyperborean

    The phenomenon is so massive that there is an expression “beurette à khel” which means “arab woman fucked by black men”

    Even Islamist women prefer to couple with blacks
     

    The line between a slut and a jihadist is as thin as the line between a jihadist and an aspiring rapper.

    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/09/248CEDE200000578-0-image-m-12_1420842404752.jpg

    (Mother and daughter)

    https://democratieparticipative.biz/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/BErTRA6CEAA9B0C.jpg

    It’s kind of ironic that in France black men steal the women of arab men meanwhile in North Africa, former slaves continue to be treated like dogs, you can insult them in the street without risking anything. Segregation is largely accepted by society , mixed unions discouraged

    Arab countries are probably the most racist places on the planet.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=mNIFblwTCEE (Anti Black Racism in Tunisia. Racism by Arabs / Muslims

  213. @Hyperborean

    The phenomenon is so massive that there is an expression “beurette à khel” which means “arab woman fucked by black men”

    Even Islamist women prefer to couple with blacks
     

    The line between a slut and a jihadist is as thin as the line between a jihadist and an aspiring rapper.

    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/09/248CEDE200000578-0-image-m-12_1420842404752.jpg

    (Mother and daughter)

    https://democratieparticipative.biz/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/BErTRA6CEAA9B0C.jpg

    In their native cultural environment, in North Africa, these women would be discouraged from this behavior or marginalized if they engaged in it. This is why it is evil to keep them in Europe, and they should be returned to their homelands.

    Fortunately, Africa has many mischling zones like Sudan or Mauritania, where their monstrous broods can be safely integrated into what passes for society.

  214. Spinning along US neocon Zionist lines, The National Interest is covering all angles:

    https://nationalinterest.org/feature/assange-should-get-what-he-deserves-52417

    Wonder if Dov Zakheim thinks that Carl Bernstein and Christiane Amanpour are true journalists?

    Somewhat related regarding academia as well as journalism:

    https://irrussianality.wordpress.com/2019/04/12/looking-in-the-wrong-direction/#comment-26705

    • Replies: @LondonBob
    Neocons seem very excitable about Assange, even more than you expect them to be.
  215. @Mitleser

    Black men do not only seduce white women but they start to breed with Arab women who are sexy enough that Latinas

    We have North Africans in France angry against African immigrants. They have screamed for years against white racism, now they are cuckolded by their black neighbors.
     
    Aren't Nafris scum?

    https://www.tagesspiegel.de/images/56418261_1149985701850227_74246430103v50022656_o/24215048/3-format1009.jpg

    It is a nice billboard, but I hope they have a lot of cameras set up to capture the Leftists, when they inevitably deface it.

  216. We are not as far removed from China’s former one child policy as many would like to think.

    First, there is the case of India, “the world’s largest democracy.” In the ’70s, they sterilized about 8 million people, many forcefully, by surrounding entire villages. The policy was discontinued only because of power changes.

    Much of these policies in Asia – Vietnam had a two child policy – were promulgated by Leftist organizations from the West, like Planned Parenthood, or the World Bank.

    Obama had a science adviser who with Paul and Anne Ehrlich once wrote “Adding a sterlilant to drinking water or staple foods is a suggestion that seems horrifying to most people.” “It has been concluded that compulsory population-control laws, even including laws requiring compulsory abortion, could be sustained under the existing Constitution if the population crisis became sufficiently severe to endanger society.”

  217. @songbird
    On a purely tangential note, one thing I find really odd about German politics is the mania for getting a permanent seat on the UN Security Council. I mean, it is even in the AfD platform - you would think they would be for defunding the UN.

    From the map of UN votes in the Assange thread, it does not look like Germany would veto anything that the other Western members do not veto.

    Honestly, IMO, this is behavior that we would expect from Brazil, which has the ambition to be a global player, and so a cargo cult of trying to copy actual powers. Germany is a real country, or at least was. The UN is a purely evil, illegitimate body worse even than the EU parliament, which for example, has Joacine Katar-Moreira - spitting, stuttering Bantu feminist from Guinea-Bissau - running for it in Portugal.

    I attribute it to post-war psychosis, much like German's atomophobia, or their psychological inability to drink tap water, they aspire to be at the head of the new League of Nations, to prevent world conflicts. It doesn't matter that it is a worthless, corrupt and inherently evil organization, which is fostering world conflicts by supporting mass migration.

    I would find it odd if Germany weren’t seeking a UN seat, as it is they have to go through France when Germany are the power in the EU. The UN isn’t going anywhere so you have to make it work for you as best you can.

    • Replies: @songbird
    I am for handing out as many vetoes as possible, Any increase in obstructionism, however small is a positive, in my view. I just don't see what Germany would get out of it. As part of any deal, there would probably be pressure for them to pay even more. They are larger than the UK, after all, though I believe Britain pays more, or at least has in the past.

    All they can do is ask for a veto. Cut off money, if they are smart. Bribe third world countries to campaign for them, if they are stupid. But who will actually give it to them? The whole thing is a satire on the structure of the UN.

    And what would they actually use it for? If they are like the US, probably to signal philo-Semitism.

    I suppose one has to account for the reality of the globalist mindset in the many individuals who want a Utopian, global organization. Still, I think it would be more practical to break it up into regional organizations, or else a club of serious countries and one of joke, third world countries with funny names, like Burkina Fasso.
  218. @Mikhail
    Spinning along US neocon Zionist lines, The National Interest is covering all angles:

    https://nationalinterest.org/feature/assange-should-get-what-he-deserves-52417

    Wonder if Dov Zakheim thinks that Carl Bernstein and Christiane Amanpour are true journalists?

    Somewhat related regarding academia as well as journalism:

    https://irrussianality.wordpress.com/2019/04/12/looking-in-the-wrong-direction/#comment-26705

    Neocons seem very excitable about Assange, even more than you expect them to be.

  219. @Thorfinnsson
    Austria considering ending anonymity on the major platforms:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6914991/Austria-considers-making-internet-users-REGISTER-providers-prevent-anonymous-hate-speech.html

    German_reader merits praise for his early criticism of Sebastian Kurz.

    The good news is that it does not apply to the internet as a whole. In fact presumably the law could easily be circumvented with a VPN.

    In fact presumably the law could easily be circumvented with a VPN.

    How long until VPNs are outlawed? (I assume there is a practical way of doing this)

    • Replies: @songbird
    China has recently blocked some forms of VPN. It is like they are willing to tolerate it, but only if it is used by a limited group of people. Any increase and they work to put it back into equilibrium.

    I don't think the West will be as tolerant.
    , @Dmitry

    assume there is a practical way of doing this

     

    In Russia, authorities have been trying to work out such a strategy, for more than two years, and still failing chaotically to achieve the most basic things like blocking access to VPNs that allow access to banned websites.

    For example, November 2017 since they made "technological means" i.e. VPNs and anonymizers, illegal "to use to access blocked sites".

    Yet after they pass this law, they realized they have no way to implement it.

    Then they were working for another 7 months, to create an annex to the law, which will penalize search engines which don't delist access blocked websites. It is just incompetency at the moment.

    That said, it's only lack of means, not lack of intentions. It's not impossible they won't hire some intelligent people and develop a successful strategy.

    The country to watch is China. If in some future year, China implements a VPN ban, they will probably do it competently. Authorities of other countries will watch and learn the strategy used in China, and copy that.

  220. Is the CCP actually controlled by a Manchu cabal?

  221. @LondonBob
    I would find it odd if Germany weren't seeking a UN seat, as it is they have to go through France when Germany are the power in the EU. The UN isn't going anywhere so you have to make it work for you as best you can.

    I am for handing out as many vetoes as possible, Any increase in obstructionism, however small is a positive, in my view. I just don’t see what Germany would get out of it. As part of any deal, there would probably be pressure for them to pay even more. They are larger than the UK, after all, though I believe Britain pays more, or at least has in the past.

    All they can do is ask for a veto. Cut off money, if they are smart. Bribe third world countries to campaign for them, if they are stupid. But who will actually give it to them? The whole thing is a satire on the structure of the UN.

    And what would they actually use it for? If they are like the US, probably to signal philo-Semitism.

    I suppose one has to account for the reality of the globalist mindset in the many individuals who want a Utopian, global organization. Still, I think it would be more practical to break it up into regional organizations, or else a club of serious countries and one of joke, third world countries with funny names, like Burkina Fasso.

    • Replies: @Mitleser

    They are larger than the UK, after all, though I believe Britain pays more, or at least has in the past.
     
    Germany pays more and that is probably one of the main reasons why Germans want more potential influence.

    https://thelogicalindian.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/united-nations-budget-contributions-by-member-countries_in-percentage.png

    https://i2.wp.com/factly.in/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Un-Budget-Top-10.png
  222. @for-the-record
    In fact presumably the law could easily be circumvented with a VPN.

    How long until VPNs are outlawed? (I assume there is a practical way of doing this)

    China has recently blocked some forms of VPN. It is like they are willing to tolerate it, but only if it is used by a limited group of people. Any increase and they work to put it back into equilibrium.

    I don’t think the West will be as tolerant.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    The other thing is that China is blocking access to all the most basic Western websites.

    So Western businesses need a VPN just to do basic things like check their email.

    If China could implement a VPN ban, it would have much more extreme effects than in Russia or the West (where in Russia they only block websites for political reasons - i.e. a few strange Nazi websites, drugs websites, waybackmachine until they agreed to delete certain pages - , and allow access to basic Western websites).

  223. @for-the-record
    In fact presumably the law could easily be circumvented with a VPN.

    How long until VPNs are outlawed? (I assume there is a practical way of doing this)

    assume there is a practical way of doing this

    In Russia, authorities have been trying to work out such a strategy, for more than two years, and still failing chaotically to achieve the most basic things like blocking access to VPNs that allow access to banned websites.

    For example, November 2017 since they made “technological means” i.e. VPNs and anonymizers, illegal “to use to access blocked sites”.

    Yet after they pass this law, they realized they have no way to implement it.

    Then they were working for another 7 months, to create an annex to the law, which will penalize search engines which don’t delist access blocked websites. It is just incompetency at the moment.

    That said, it’s only lack of means, not lack of intentions. It’s not impossible they won’t hire some intelligent people and develop a successful strategy.

    The country to watch is China. If in some future year, China implements a VPN ban, they will probably do it competently. Authorities of other countries will watch and learn the strategy used in China, and copy that.

  224. @songbird
    China has recently blocked some forms of VPN. It is like they are willing to tolerate it, but only if it is used by a limited group of people. Any increase and they work to put it back into equilibrium.

    I don't think the West will be as tolerant.

    The other thing is that China is blocking access to all the most basic Western websites.

    So Western businesses need a VPN just to do basic things like check their email.

    If China could implement a VPN ban, it would have much more extreme effects than in Russia or the West (where in Russia they only block websites for political reasons – i.e. a few strange Nazi websites, drugs websites, waybackmachine until they agreed to delete certain pages – , and allow access to basic Western websites).

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack

    'wayback machine'?
     
    The only 'wayback machine'that I'm gratefully familiar with is the one that was invented by Mr. Peabody, that was the center of the great campy cartoon series 'The Rocky and Bullwinkle Show' that went on for six seasons during the 1960's, and in syndication for many years thereafter. Mr. Peabody was a highly intelligent dog who had an adopted human boy named Sherman (come to think of it, this cartoon series does seem to give some positive merit to Karlin's recent proposal to 'uplift animals'), and for amusement Mr. Peabody invented a time machine that the two would use to cruise back into the past to meet many historical figures. Here's a dubbed version that I'm sure will catch the interest of many a reader of UNZ, a trip back to 1953 Iraq and Iran, to meet with Sadam Hussein and the Shah too. Enjoy:

    https://youtu.be/kpgJzlY9y8A

    Karlin - this is payback for the many nice things you've done for me! :-)

  225. @songbird
    I am for handing out as many vetoes as possible, Any increase in obstructionism, however small is a positive, in my view. I just don't see what Germany would get out of it. As part of any deal, there would probably be pressure for them to pay even more. They are larger than the UK, after all, though I believe Britain pays more, or at least has in the past.

    All they can do is ask for a veto. Cut off money, if they are smart. Bribe third world countries to campaign for them, if they are stupid. But who will actually give it to them? The whole thing is a satire on the structure of the UN.

    And what would they actually use it for? If they are like the US, probably to signal philo-Semitism.

    I suppose one has to account for the reality of the globalist mindset in the many individuals who want a Utopian, global organization. Still, I think it would be more practical to break it up into regional organizations, or else a club of serious countries and one of joke, third world countries with funny names, like Burkina Fasso.

    They are larger than the UK, after all, though I believe Britain pays more, or at least has in the past.

    Germany pays more and that is probably one of the main reasons why Germans want more potential influence.

    • Replies: @songbird
    Brazil pays more than Russia? That is interesting, though i guess it makes sense.

    Of course, it is doubtful that India or Japan will ever be permanent members - it is nor likely that China will accept either.
  226. @Mitleser

    They are larger than the UK, after all, though I believe Britain pays more, or at least has in the past.
     
    Germany pays more and that is probably one of the main reasons why Germans want more potential influence.

    https://thelogicalindian.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/united-nations-budget-contributions-by-member-countries_in-percentage.png

    https://i2.wp.com/factly.in/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Un-Budget-Top-10.png

    Brazil pays more than Russia? That is interesting, though i guess it makes sense.

    Of course, it is doubtful that India or Japan will ever be permanent members – it is nor likely that China will accept either.

  227. What I have read about the plans for new permanent members is that the new permanent members would be regular voting members, only permanently so. So, no new members with veto powers.

  228. The UN is an extremely gay organization based on fundamentally incorrect, offensive ideals.

    The prominent members should either withdraw or, barring that, cripple it from within.

    I’ve mused before that the USA should withdraw all funding to the UN, veto everything on the Security Council, and assign a special NYPD personnel to harass UN personnel and “diplomats”.

    • Replies: @songbird
    The US really has open borders now, but traditionally the UN offices in NYC were a major source of intelligence gathering against the US. The Soviets would use their library as a shell to contact US companies and get their technical documents. Some believe that spying by UN diplomats facilitated the World Trade Center attack.

    There is a kind of human zoo element to the whole thing that mind be interesting to anthropologists - the comparison of diplomats parking violation to state corruption indices. But it is not worth the hassle of hosting so many corrupt barbarians. Interestingly, the Hague impounds the cars of troublesome diplomats.
    , @Yevardian
    That's probably not even necessary, all the US needs to do is withdraw from the organisation and it will decline into irrelevancy just like The League of Nations did. I don't think the UN has ever achieved a single physical, tangible thing that wasn't US policy anyway.
  229. @Thorfinnsson
    The UN is an extremely gay organization based on fundamentally incorrect, offensive ideals.

    The prominent members should either withdraw or, barring that, cripple it from within.

    I've mused before that the USA should withdraw all funding to the UN, veto everything on the Security Council, and assign a special NYPD personnel to harass UN personnel and "diplomats".

    The US really has open borders now, but traditionally the UN offices in NYC were a major source of intelligence gathering against the US. The Soviets would use their library as a shell to contact US companies and get their technical documents. Some believe that spying by UN diplomats facilitated the World Trade Center attack.

    There is a kind of human zoo element to the whole thing that mind be interesting to anthropologists – the comparison of diplomats parking violation to state corruption indices. But it is not worth the hassle of hosting so many corrupt barbarians. Interestingly, the Hague impounds the cars of troublesome diplomats.

  230. @Dmitry
    You see it on the signs there and you hear people speaking it if you visit there (they probably teach it in all schools).

    But when I heard it, Euskara sounds almost just Spanish (for example, I heard it in supermarket announcements), because it incorporates a lot of Spanish words and they say it with some totally Spanish accent.

    While on the other side of the border, it will sound more like French.

    But when I heard it, Euskara sounds almost just Spanish (for example, I heard it in supermarket announcements), because it incorporates a lot of Spanish words and they say it with some totally Spanish accent.

    Are they speakers of the pue language though, or a mixed dialect? You get similar phenomena with English speakers butchering Irish and Welsh pronunciation.

  231. @Thorfinnsson
    The UN is an extremely gay organization based on fundamentally incorrect, offensive ideals.

    The prominent members should either withdraw or, barring that, cripple it from within.

    I've mused before that the USA should withdraw all funding to the UN, veto everything on the Security Council, and assign a special NYPD personnel to harass UN personnel and "diplomats".

    That’s probably not even necessary, all the US needs to do is withdraw from the organisation and it will decline into irrelevancy just like The League of Nations did. I don’t think the UN has ever achieved a single physical, tangible thing that wasn’t US policy anyway.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    The UN is a useful institution to create some legitimacy to greater power domination and even US hegemony. In a world without such institutions, outsiders will try to challenge the established order more often and more violently, while the dominant powers will also need to assert their dominance with constant violence. That would make things worse.

    As to complaints about it being used to facilitate spying, the importance of it is negligible, and in any event, it was the US who wanted to have it on its own turf. Partly because, you won’t believe it, it made it easier for them to spy on these diplomats.

    I don’t understand how people can be so autistic not to understand it.
  232. Looks like Stratolaunch has finally flown. Launching the Pegasus XL is not a good business plan though. It is too expensive, not to mention smaller planes can do that. Virgin Orbit has LauncherOne which is supposed to launch from a 747, from a much lower price point.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I don’t care if it makes business sense. It’s pretty cool.
  233. @Dmitry
    The other thing is that China is blocking access to all the most basic Western websites.

    So Western businesses need a VPN just to do basic things like check their email.

    If China could implement a VPN ban, it would have much more extreme effects than in Russia or the West (where in Russia they only block websites for political reasons - i.e. a few strange Nazi websites, drugs websites, waybackmachine until they agreed to delete certain pages - , and allow access to basic Western websites).

    ‘wayback machine’?

    The only ‘wayback machine’that I’m gratefully familiar with is the one that was invented by Mr. Peabody, that was the center of the great campy cartoon series ‘The Rocky and Bullwinkle Show’ that went on for six seasons during the 1960’s, and in syndication for many years thereafter. Mr. Peabody was a highly intelligent dog who had an adopted human boy named Sherman (come to think of it, this cartoon series does seem to give some positive merit to Karlin’s recent proposal to ‘uplift animals’), and for amusement Mr. Peabody invented a time machine that the two would use to cruise back into the past to meet many historical figures. Here’s a dubbed version that I’m sure will catch the interest of many a reader of UNZ, a trip back to 1953 Iraq and Iran, to meet with Sadam Hussein and the Shah too. Enjoy:

    Karlin – this is payback for the many nice things you’ve done for me! 🙂

  234. @songbird
    Looks like Stratolaunch has finally flown. Launching the Pegasus XL is not a good business plan though. It is too expensive, not to mention smaller planes can do that. Virgin Orbit has LauncherOne which is supposed to launch from a 747, from a much lower price point.

    I don’t care if it makes business sense. It’s pretty cool.

    • Replies: @songbird
    I agree. It feels like they have carried the old idea of air launch, which started way back in the '50s, at perhaps the time of greatest enthusiasm for space, to near about its greatest practical extreme - at least in terms of a platform.

    I'd like to see the rocket on it maximized too - to be the biggest one you could launch from it - to maximally test the idea against existing pad launches.

    Trouble is I don't know if they will be able to build one - they cancelled all plans to do so. Paul Allen died, so they lost him as a backer. They can't just buy a rocket from someone else and jury-rig it - needs to be designed to launch horizontally, and it needs to be the right size. Too small and they have too many competitors like Electron.

    I guess the only way out of it is they need another super-rich, space-enthusiast backer, but they might not be able to find one, since it is a harder sell now that you have first stage landings, and the prospect of perhaps landing the whole rocket. I just don't want to see it mothballed, before the idea is fully tested.
  235. @Yevardian
    That's probably not even necessary, all the US needs to do is withdraw from the organisation and it will decline into irrelevancy just like The League of Nations did. I don't think the UN has ever achieved a single physical, tangible thing that wasn't US policy anyway.

    The UN is a useful institution to create some legitimacy to greater power domination and even US hegemony. In a world without such institutions, outsiders will try to challenge the established order more often and more violently, while the dominant powers will also need to assert their dominance with constant violence. That would make things worse.

    As to complaints about it being used to facilitate spying, the importance of it is negligible, and in any event, it was the US who wanted to have it on its own turf. Partly because, you won’t believe it, it made it easier for them to spy on these diplomats.

    I don’t understand how people can be so autistic not to understand it.

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    I don't think I made a value judgement on the UN one way or another, I was just (maybe too obliquely) responding to Thorfinnsonn that the UN is a fig-leaf for otherwise naked American power, and the idea that the UN poses any threat to the US, or possesses any unique agenda in itself is absurd.
    , @Mitleser
    My impression is that Thorfinnsonn wants a world where border changes and more obvious great power politics are more acceptable, hence opposing the UN and its legitimacy is a logical consequence.
    , @songbird
    You sound like you have relatives that work at the UN.
  236. @Mr. XYZ
    You're surely joking, right? After all, HBD-awareness could certainly result in better policies in certain fields. For instance, in regards to affirmative action and immigration. Also, in regards to criminal justice (where the focus should be on combating the effects of bad genes as opposed to trying to reshape violent criminals).

    You’re surely joking, right? After all, HBD-awareness could certainly result in better policies in certain fields. For instance, in regards to affirmative action and immigration.

    HBD is a powerful argument for the welfare state, and for socialism. HBD means that some groups of people need more help, so logically those groups should receive more welfare. And more affirmative action.

    It could also be used as an argument in favour of immigration – these people just can’t cope in their own countries. They need our help. They need to be brought to the West where we can be sure they’ll get the help they need.

    It’s an extremely strong argument in favour of universal health care system, and for the government to provide housing for HBD-disadvantaged groups. In fact it could be (and undoubtedly will be) argued that these groups will need government-subsidised (or more probably free) utilities, telephones, internet, transportation, pharmaceuticals, etc etc.

    It’s also quite likely to be argued that HBD-disadvantaged groups should get additional direct financial payments from the government

    Acceptance of HBD will require a large expansion of the bureaucracy. It will be a boon for therapists, counsellors, social workers, etc.

  237. https://www.amren.com/news/2019/04/white-singers-in-hungary-claim-to-be-african-american-for-an-opera/

    What is more hilarious, the actual story or the fact that a supposedly prestige news organisation like NPR is obsessing over race politics in Hungarian opera(!).

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I vaguely heard that there was some brouhaha (totally incomprehensible to Hungarians) about how the roles of supposedly black characters in the opera (by a white composer of the Jewish persuasion) were to be (and apparently have been) played by (white) Hungarian opera singers, maybe even wearing “blackface” (like actors playing Othello have been doing since time immemorial), and how this was unacceptable to some Americans (or maybe Western Europeans, too). I haven’t followed the controversy, but I was vaguely aware of it.
    , @songbird
    All state news organizations in the West should be abolished. Based on my observations, they are inherently evil. For instance, I have seen the German state news promote open borders, then coach some Afghani who was in the country for a year without a job to blame the racism of native Germans.

    And the times when they are not engaging in evil (not frequently for NPR), they are just engaging in very bland, mindless distraction from actual problems in society.

    Certain personalities are really subject to programming by state news.
  238. @Anonymous
    Dude, try living in real world. Politically, far-right parties have adopted the HBD nonsense already; they get obliterated in elections since no one normal cares about this stuff, it's not at all palatable to voters and HBD is a lunatic-fringe internet movement. Furthermore, HBD just demonises any actual legitimate reasons ordinary people might have for wanting to lower immigration (look at surveys, it has nothing to do with race.) And paradoxically, groups like the SPLC love far-right nutters to promote this HBD stuff because its so stupid and scares away the public. Anyway, I'll leave you to your HBD dungeons and dragons. Have fun.

    Politically, far-right parties have adopted the HBD nonsense already; they get obliterated in elections since no one normal cares about this stuff, it’s not at all palatable to voters and HBD is a lunatic-fringe internet movement. Furthermore, HBD just demonises any actual legitimate reasons ordinary people might have for wanting to lower immigration (look at surveys, it has nothing to do with race.)

    Unfortunately that’s all too true. Politically HBD will remain absolutely poisonous.

    It’s a loser issue. If you want to make absolutely certain that you will be politically irrelevant and will remain politically irrelevant then espousing HBD is the way to do it.

    But alt-righters live in a fantasy world of their own making. They actually think they can sell HBD.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Your opinions on democracy, women’s suffrage, gay marriage, transgenderism, the horrors of the Enlightenment and the advantages of medieval feudalism are of course winning political issues.

    Look, I don’t have ready-made political solutions, but I don’t want to make compromises and say things I don’t believe in or deny or even stay silent about things I believe in, only for some imaginary political benefits. I think denying or suppressing HBD has already been tried by cuckservatives. Given the enormous political successes they had basically nowhere (from immigration through gay marriage through transgenderism through, you heard it here first, reparations) it’s just as well we might be honest about HBD, anonymously among ourselves, for a start. While being honest, we might stumble into a solution.
    , @DFH
    There is a difference between spreading something online and thinking that a political party ought to campaign based upon it. Both are important and they are not mutually exclusive. Not a very hard concept to grasp.
    , @Jaakko Raipala

    But alt-righters live in a fantasy world of their own making. They actually think they can sell HBD.
     
    The alt-right and HBD nerds are almost entirely different groups and if you listen to the self-proclaimed alt-right leaders like Richard Spencer you'll just hear them tell you that all this HBD nerdy science stuff has to be thrown out in favor of some spiritual racial identity that would supposedly appeal to the masses.

    By now the alt-right is pretty much just a neo-Nazi movement as everyone else left and Nazis of course reject HBD in favor of occult, supernatural views of race. They were not fans of IQ testing in particular since Jews scored so well.

    There's not a single "far right" political party anywhere in the Western world that have adopted "HBD". There are many anti-immigration parties, practically all of which try to avoid issues like race and IQ like plague and try to weasel out of the race issue by opposing Islam or illegal immigration or whatever. It never works because the left always knows it's about not wanting black or brown immigration so they get attacked anyway.

    The "public" doesn't get enraged at all if some politician were to admit that they believe in racial differences in intelligence. It's not "unpalatable to the public", it's unpalatable to the journalists, academics and activists. Those people hate any right-wing platform anyway and it's completely pointless to try to make any right-wing party "palatable" to Marxist professors. HBD is not a big vote winner since most of the public doesn't care much about it but it's not a vote loser at all.
  239. @dfordoom

    Politically, far-right parties have adopted the HBD nonsense already; they get obliterated in elections since no one normal cares about this stuff, it’s not at all palatable to voters and HBD is a lunatic-fringe internet movement. Furthermore, HBD just demonises any actual legitimate reasons ordinary people might have for wanting to lower immigration (look at surveys, it has nothing to do with race.)
     
    Unfortunately that's all too true. Politically HBD will remain absolutely poisonous.

    It's a loser issue. If you want to make absolutely certain that you will be politically irrelevant and will remain politically irrelevant then espousing HBD is the way to do it.

    But alt-righters live in a fantasy world of their own making. They actually think they can sell HBD.

    Your opinions on democracy, women’s suffrage, gay marriage, transgenderism, the horrors of the Enlightenment and the advantages of medieval feudalism are of course winning political issues.

    Look, I don’t have ready-made political solutions, but I don’t want to make compromises and say things I don’t believe in or deny or even stay silent about things I believe in, only for some imaginary political benefits. I think denying or suppressing HBD has already been tried by cuckservatives. Given the enormous political successes they had basically nowhere (from immigration through gay marriage through transgenderism through, you heard it here first, reparations) it’s just as well we might be honest about HBD, anonymously among ourselves, for a start. While being honest, we might stumble into a solution.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    we might stumble into a solution.
     
    Or we might not. But at least anonymously we didn’t have to pretend to hold different opinions than we really do. That’s already something.
    , @dfordoom

    Your opinions on democracy, women’s suffrage, gay marriage, transgenderism, the horrors of the Enlightenment and the advantages of medieval feudalism are of course winning political issues.
     
    Any opinion, any opinion at all, which deviates from the approved Social Justice narrative will get you labelled a Nazi and marginalised. Not even the smallest degree of dissent is permitted.

    The things I believe in are indeed non-starters in the current political climate. But they would lead to a better society, in my view.

    My problem with HBD is that I don't see any advantages to it at all for the Right, even in the unlikely event that it gained any political traction. The only political result would be to strengthen the cases for socialism, massively increased bureaucracy and much greater government intervention, which I assume you don't want. So it's not only politically non-viable, it would be from the Right's point of view a very bad thing.
  240. @reiner Tor
    Your opinions on democracy, women’s suffrage, gay marriage, transgenderism, the horrors of the Enlightenment and the advantages of medieval feudalism are of course winning political issues.

    Look, I don’t have ready-made political solutions, but I don’t want to make compromises and say things I don’t believe in or deny or even stay silent about things I believe in, only for some imaginary political benefits. I think denying or suppressing HBD has already been tried by cuckservatives. Given the enormous political successes they had basically nowhere (from immigration through gay marriage through transgenderism through, you heard it here first, reparations) it’s just as well we might be honest about HBD, anonymously among ourselves, for a start. While being honest, we might stumble into a solution.

    we might stumble into a solution.

    Or we might not. But at least anonymously we didn’t have to pretend to hold different opinions than we really do. That’s already something.

  241. @dfordoom

    Politically, far-right parties have adopted the HBD nonsense already; they get obliterated in elections since no one normal cares about this stuff, it’s not at all palatable to voters and HBD is a lunatic-fringe internet movement. Furthermore, HBD just demonises any actual legitimate reasons ordinary people might have for wanting to lower immigration (look at surveys, it has nothing to do with race.)
     
    Unfortunately that's all too true. Politically HBD will remain absolutely poisonous.

    It's a loser issue. If you want to make absolutely certain that you will be politically irrelevant and will remain politically irrelevant then espousing HBD is the way to do it.

    But alt-righters live in a fantasy world of their own making. They actually think they can sell HBD.

    There is a difference between spreading something online and thinking that a political party ought to campaign based upon it. Both are important and they are not mutually exclusive. Not a very hard concept to grasp.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
  242. @reiner Tor
    The UN is a useful institution to create some legitimacy to greater power domination and even US hegemony. In a world without such institutions, outsiders will try to challenge the established order more often and more violently, while the dominant powers will also need to assert their dominance with constant violence. That would make things worse.

    As to complaints about it being used to facilitate spying, the importance of it is negligible, and in any event, it was the US who wanted to have it on its own turf. Partly because, you won’t believe it, it made it easier for them to spy on these diplomats.

    I don’t understand how people can be so autistic not to understand it.

    I don’t think I made a value judgement on the UN one way or another, I was just (maybe too obliquely) responding to Thorfinnsonn that the UN is a fig-leaf for otherwise naked American power, and the idea that the UN poses any threat to the US, or possesses any unique agenda in itself is absurd.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I didn’t really argue with you, rather with Songbird and Thorfinnsson. Perhaps I should’ve replied to one of their comments, I just tried to reply to the latest comment on the issue.
  243. @Yevardian
    I don't think I made a value judgement on the UN one way or another, I was just (maybe too obliquely) responding to Thorfinnsonn that the UN is a fig-leaf for otherwise naked American power, and the idea that the UN poses any threat to the US, or possesses any unique agenda in itself is absurd.

    I didn’t really argue with you, rather with Songbird and Thorfinnsson. Perhaps I should’ve replied to one of their comments, I just tried to reply to the latest comment on the issue.

  244. @Thulean Friend
    https://www.amren.com/news/2019/04/white-singers-in-hungary-claim-to-be-african-american-for-an-opera/

    What is more hilarious, the actual story or the fact that a supposedly prestige news organisation like NPR is obsessing over race politics in Hungarian opera(!).

    I vaguely heard that there was some brouhaha (totally incomprehensible to Hungarians) about how the roles of supposedly black characters in the opera (by a white composer of the Jewish persuasion) were to be (and apparently have been) played by (white) Hungarian opera singers, maybe even wearing “blackface” (like actors playing Othello have been doing since time immemorial), and how this was unacceptable to some Americans (or maybe Western Europeans, too). I haven’t followed the controversy, but I was vaguely aware of it.

    • Replies: @DFH
    The particular controversy is because of the Jewish composer's conditions, his estate will only allow it to be performed by a black cast, so the Hungarian cast had to sign contracts saying they were black.

    It's ironic because it was actually staged as being about the 'migrant crisis' and doubtless had a very pozzed message and would have been attended by cosmopolitan liberals anyway.
  245. @reiner Tor
    I vaguely heard that there was some brouhaha (totally incomprehensible to Hungarians) about how the roles of supposedly black characters in the opera (by a white composer of the Jewish persuasion) were to be (and apparently have been) played by (white) Hungarian opera singers, maybe even wearing “blackface” (like actors playing Othello have been doing since time immemorial), and how this was unacceptable to some Americans (or maybe Western Europeans, too). I haven’t followed the controversy, but I was vaguely aware of it.

    The particular controversy is because of the Jewish composer’s conditions, his estate will only allow it to be performed by a black cast, so the Hungarian cast had to sign contracts saying they were black.

    It’s ironic because it was actually staged as being about the ‘migrant crisis’ and doubtless had a very pozzed message and would have been attended by cosmopolitan liberals anyway.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I guess the composer didn’t understand or think about how difficult it would be to stage the work in a middle income white (or Asian or even Mestizo, for the matter) countries. Or he just didn’t care. Anyway, I think in that case the composer’s wishes should be followed and the work shouldn’t be staged in Hungary.

    Is Porgy and Bess any good? I might check it out.
  246. @DFH
    The particular controversy is because of the Jewish composer's conditions, his estate will only allow it to be performed by a black cast, so the Hungarian cast had to sign contracts saying they were black.

    It's ironic because it was actually staged as being about the 'migrant crisis' and doubtless had a very pozzed message and would have been attended by cosmopolitan liberals anyway.

    I guess the composer didn’t understand or think about how difficult it would be to stage the work in a middle income white (or Asian or even Mestizo, for the matter) countries. Or he just didn’t care. Anyway, I think in that case the composer’s wishes should be followed and the work shouldn’t be staged in Hungary.

    Is Porgy and Bess any good? I might check it out.

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    The Miles Davis soundtrack is not bad.
  247. Maybe the pozzed people involved should be prosecuted for not respecting the composer’s wishes? (And that of his estate?)

  248. @reiner Tor
    The UN is a useful institution to create some legitimacy to greater power domination and even US hegemony. In a world without such institutions, outsiders will try to challenge the established order more often and more violently, while the dominant powers will also need to assert their dominance with constant violence. That would make things worse.

    As to complaints about it being used to facilitate spying, the importance of it is negligible, and in any event, it was the US who wanted to have it on its own turf. Partly because, you won’t believe it, it made it easier for them to spy on these diplomats.

    I don’t understand how people can be so autistic not to understand it.

    My impression is that Thorfinnsonn wants a world where border changes and more obvious great power politics are more acceptable, hence opposing the UN and its legitimacy is a logical consequence.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Such world would be inherently more dangerous than what we have now.

    A better alternative might be to tacitly accept that other, lesser powers have vital interests outside their borders, too, and draw some lines behind which they are allowed a large degree of freedom of action (and, more importantly, the US itself would not try to assert itself), while still encouraging them not to use this possibility too extensively.
  249. @Mitleser
    My impression is that Thorfinnsonn wants a world where border changes and more obvious great power politics are more acceptable, hence opposing the UN and its legitimacy is a logical consequence.

    Such world would be inherently more dangerous than what we have now.

    A better alternative might be to tacitly accept that other, lesser powers have vital interests outside their borders, too, and draw some lines behind which they are allowed a large degree of freedom of action (and, more importantly, the US itself would not try to assert itself), while still encouraging them not to use this possibility too extensively.

  250. I understand the UN’s purpose and don’t accept it. I have the following problems with it:

    • Equality of states (other than P5) is incorrect and offensive
    • Failure to recognize the Right of Conquest is gay and results in endless frozen conflicts
    • Legally force can only be authorized by the UNSC which is preposterous
    • Constant efforts to stop conflicts with ceasefires and send peacekeepers just prevents one side from winning and ending it
    • Vast make-work bureaucracy for hordes of parasites, many of them Third Worlders
    • Part of the liberal Borg that seeks to make the whole word the same
    • UNDR is gay

    I like the idea of the US staying in the UN but intentionally crippling it as that would make the organization more useless than simply withdrawing from it.

    The ideal international system, to the extent such a thing exists, is the historical Concert of Europe. The world should be divided into spheres of influence with a focus on keeping the peace and suppressing revolution. That would of course require the US itself to recognize that other powers have interests and to cease being the instrument of global revolution.

    • Replies: @Mikel
    But the Concert of Europe was notoriously unable to prevent wars and revolutions.

    Another problem of having borders and international matters dictated by great powers is that you end up with small but differentiated peoples enclosed inside larger supra-national entities that hinder their economic development potential.

    Depending on contingencies such as alliances and balance of power dynamics, you may well have ended up with Finland (maybe even Sweden) controlled by the Russian Empire. This would have likely resulted in an impoverishment of the people in these countries compared to what they were able to achieve being independent.

    The problem is more acute if you happen to be a small ethnic group totally surrounded by two big nations of imperialist traditions. Even under the yoke of a not so wealthy country like Spain, Eurostat shows that the Basque per-capita GDP is comparable to some affluent nations in the EU (121 as percentage of the PPP EU average versus 126 for Germany, 121 for Sweden, 106 for the UK). You can't of course extrapolate these figures too naively but there is little doubt that, ceteris paribus, we'd fare better independently rather than dragged down by a larger, poorer country. In practical terms, my mother would be enjoying a higher pension, my children would be able to get better paying jobs,... why should I prefer to let the matter of our sovereignty be decided by the great powers that be?
    , @Yevardian
    As I said before, this whole platform is more or less identical with US world policy. The UN is simply a formalisation of it power, softening realities of US domination for the rest of world in the same way the 'democracy' makes people think they have any final say over their government.

    It seems to be a common thing amongst American 'patriots' and Americanophiles that [X] is not the 'real' America, but an aberration of some city-on-the-hill fantasy that never existed. It was inevitable from its founding that the US would end up as the shitshow it is now. The only way it will ever become a normal country is when the whole edifice collapses and balkanises.

  251. Gab’s Dissenter has been no-platformed.

    I’ve never used it, but the concept is novel and amusing. It allows you to comment on anything.

  252. This is amazing.

    • Replies: @songbird
    Their outrage is hilarious, if we turn the clock back further, to Indian days:

    Oregon was kind of a big territory. The inland natives would have undoubtedly killed, tortured, and perhaps cannibalized blacks, while they were still living. Sucking the marrow out of their bones to get the nutrients inside.

    The coastal ones, relatively richer, though they were only hunter-gatherers, would have undoubtedly made slaves of them, just as they did to the 3 survivors of the Hojun Maru blown way off course from Japan, all the way to the coast of the current state of Washington in 1834. They were ransomed by Hudson Bay Company traders - white men.

    And you know what? The Japanese did not accept them back, but fired warning shots at them. Japanese would have likely killed black settlers.
  253. @reiner Tor
    I don’t care if it makes business sense. It’s pretty cool.

    I agree. It feels like they have carried the old idea of air launch, which started way back in the ’50s, at perhaps the time of greatest enthusiasm for space, to near about its greatest practical extreme – at least in terms of a platform.

    I’d like to see the rocket on it maximized too – to be the biggest one you could launch from it – to maximally test the idea against existing pad launches.

    Trouble is I don’t know if they will be able to build one – they cancelled all plans to do so. Paul Allen died, so they lost him as a backer. They can’t just buy a rocket from someone else and jury-rig it – needs to be designed to launch horizontally, and it needs to be the right size. Too small and they have too many competitors like Electron.

    I guess the only way out of it is they need another super-rich, space-enthusiast backer, but they might not be able to find one, since it is a harder sell now that you have first stage landings, and the prospect of perhaps landing the whole rocket. I just don’t want to see it mothballed, before the idea is fully tested.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
  254. @Thulean Friend
    https://www.amren.com/news/2019/04/white-singers-in-hungary-claim-to-be-african-american-for-an-opera/

    What is more hilarious, the actual story or the fact that a supposedly prestige news organisation like NPR is obsessing over race politics in Hungarian opera(!).

    All state news organizations in the West should be abolished. Based on my observations, they are inherently evil. For instance, I have seen the German state news promote open borders, then coach some Afghani who was in the country for a year without a job to blame the racism of native Germans.

    And the times when they are not engaging in evil (not frequently for NPR), they are just engaging in very bland, mindless distraction from actual problems in society.

    Certain personalities are really subject to programming by state news.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    All state news organizations in the West should be abolished. Based on my observations, they are inherently evil.
     
    Occasionally, some parties propose to completely defund state propaganda, but I actually think this is a waste.

    All the information infrastructure would be better off being ideologically restructured.

    And on a personal note, it would be amusing to see the NPR, BBC, DW and their all ilk turned into propaganda organs for nationalists, with their logos and names intact.

  255. @reiner Tor
    The UN is a useful institution to create some legitimacy to greater power domination and even US hegemony. In a world without such institutions, outsiders will try to challenge the established order more often and more violently, while the dominant powers will also need to assert their dominance with constant violence. That would make things worse.

    As to complaints about it being used to facilitate spying, the importance of it is negligible, and in any event, it was the US who wanted to have it on its own turf. Partly because, you won’t believe it, it made it easier for them to spy on these diplomats.

    I don’t understand how people can be so autistic not to understand it.

    You sound like you have relatives that work at the UN.

    • LOL: reiner Tor
  256. @songbird
    All state news organizations in the West should be abolished. Based on my observations, they are inherently evil. For instance, I have seen the German state news promote open borders, then coach some Afghani who was in the country for a year without a job to blame the racism of native Germans.

    And the times when they are not engaging in evil (not frequently for NPR), they are just engaging in very bland, mindless distraction from actual problems in society.

    Certain personalities are really subject to programming by state news.

    All state news organizations in the West should be abolished. Based on my observations, they are inherently evil.

    Occasionally, some parties propose to completely defund state propaganda, but I actually think this is a waste.

    All the information infrastructure would be better off being ideologically restructured.

    And on a personal note, it would be amusing to see the NPR, BBC, DW and their all ilk turned into propaganda organs for nationalists, with their logos and names intact.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    Wouldn't that require a purge of personnel?
    Journalists tend to be progs./leftists.

    Occasionally, some parties propose to completely defund state propaganda, but I actually think this is a waste.
     
    At least defunding means no longer wasting our money on them.
    , @songbird
    When you think about it, it really is bizarre how they are all globalists but use national mastheads. Maybe, it is just a legacy from when leftists were primarily nationalists, but there would be some justice in reappropriating them.

    One of the strengths of the Left is its natural proclivity to seize news and entertainment complexes. To duplicate it, even if possible, would require artificial means - at the very least, the psychological screening of applicants. Probably technically quite doable, but in the status quo, politically impossible.

    I wish there would be more disclosure about their biases. It is strange that a candy bar has a list of its ingredients on its wrapping, but the same is not true of news organizations. Should be disclosures of how they vote, their ethnicity, whether or not they have a trust fund or large inheritance, and any other possible conflicts of interest.

    Probably one easy improvement would be not hiring journalism majors.
  257. @Hyperborean

    All state news organizations in the West should be abolished. Based on my observations, they are inherently evil.
     
    Occasionally, some parties propose to completely defund state propaganda, but I actually think this is a waste.

    All the information infrastructure would be better off being ideologically restructured.

    And on a personal note, it would be amusing to see the NPR, BBC, DW and their all ilk turned into propaganda organs for nationalists, with their logos and names intact.

    Wouldn’t that require a purge of personnel?
    Journalists tend to be progs./leftists.

    Occasionally, some parties propose to completely defund state propaganda, but I actually think this is a waste.

    At least defunding means no longer wasting our money on them.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    Wouldn’t that require a purge of personnel? Journalists tend to be progs./leftists.
     
    Yes, this would definitely be required. Even if they were politically neutral, it would probably be better to have one's own cadres in place.
  258. @Mitleser
    Wouldn't that require a purge of personnel?
    Journalists tend to be progs./leftists.

    Occasionally, some parties propose to completely defund state propaganda, but I actually think this is a waste.
     
    At least defunding means no longer wasting our money on them.

    Wouldn’t that require a purge of personnel? Journalists tend to be progs./leftists.

    Yes, this would definitely be required. Even if they were politically neutral, it would probably be better to have one’s own cadres in place.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    A template perhaps? Although lower-level people who are suspect (and given journalists' political leanings that includes a large majority of them) should also be subject to epuration.

    Under the new law, senior figures in public radio and television will be appointed – and sacked – by the treasury minister, and will no longer be hired by the National Broadcasting Council.

    Under the legislation current managers and supervisory board members of Poland’s public broadcasters will be fired with immediate effect.

    The ruling Law and Justice (PiS) party had earlier said it planned to turn the PAP news agency and public television and radio – all currently state-owned businesses – into national cultural institutions like the opera or the national museum.
     
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/07/poland-president-signs-bill-putting-state-media-under-government-control
  259. @Hyperborean

    Wouldn’t that require a purge of personnel? Journalists tend to be progs./leftists.
     
    Yes, this would definitely be required. Even if they were politically neutral, it would probably be better to have one's own cadres in place.

    A template perhaps? Although lower-level people who are suspect (and given journalists’ political leanings that includes a large majority of them) should also be subject to epuration.

    Under the new law, senior figures in public radio and television will be appointed – and sacked – by the treasury minister, and will no longer be hired by the National Broadcasting Council.

    Under the legislation current managers and supervisory board members of Poland’s public broadcasters will be fired with immediate effect.

    The ruling Law and Justice (PiS) party had earlier said it planned to turn the PAP news agency and public television and radio – all currently state-owned businesses – into national cultural institutions like the opera or the national museum.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/07/poland-president-signs-bill-putting-state-media-under-government-control

  260. @Hyperborean

    All state news organizations in the West should be abolished. Based on my observations, they are inherently evil.
     
    Occasionally, some parties propose to completely defund state propaganda, but I actually think this is a waste.

    All the information infrastructure would be better off being ideologically restructured.

    And on a personal note, it would be amusing to see the NPR, BBC, DW and their all ilk turned into propaganda organs for nationalists, with their logos and names intact.

    When you think about it, it really is bizarre how they are all globalists but use national mastheads. Maybe, it is just a legacy from when leftists were primarily nationalists, but there would be some justice in reappropriating them.

    One of the strengths of the Left is its natural proclivity to seize news and entertainment complexes. To duplicate it, even if possible, would require artificial means – at the very least, the psychological screening of applicants. Probably technically quite doable, but in the status quo, politically impossible.

    I wish there would be more disclosure about their biases. It is strange that a candy bar has a list of its ingredients on its wrapping, but the same is not true of news organizations. Should be disclosures of how they vote, their ethnicity, whether or not they have a trust fund or large inheritance, and any other possible conflicts of interest.

    Probably one easy improvement would be not hiring journalism majors.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    I wish there would be more disclosure about their biases. It is strange that a candy bar has a list of its ingredients on its wrapping, but the same is not true of news organizations. Should be disclosures of how they vote, their ethnicity, whether or not they have a trust fund or large inheritance, and any other possible conflicts of interest.

    Probably one easy improvement would be not hiring journalism majors.
     

    In Sweden and Germany, there are surveys of journalists which show their bias as a class as a whole (they are particularly keen on the Greens).

    Their reaction to people's critique is kind of funny though:


    Hur journalister röstar är ointressant, det är hur de lyckas förklara höger och vänster, och begripliggöra motsättningarna dem emellan som spelar roll.
     
    "How journalists vote is uninteresting, it is how they manage to explain Right and Left, and how they make the differences between them comprehensible which counts."

    https://www.facebook.com/svdledare/posts/1752221924823966

  261. @dfordoom

    Politically, far-right parties have adopted the HBD nonsense already; they get obliterated in elections since no one normal cares about this stuff, it’s not at all palatable to voters and HBD is a lunatic-fringe internet movement. Furthermore, HBD just demonises any actual legitimate reasons ordinary people might have for wanting to lower immigration (look at surveys, it has nothing to do with race.)
     
    Unfortunately that's all too true. Politically HBD will remain absolutely poisonous.

    It's a loser issue. If you want to make absolutely certain that you will be politically irrelevant and will remain politically irrelevant then espousing HBD is the way to do it.

    But alt-righters live in a fantasy world of their own making. They actually think they can sell HBD.

    But alt-righters live in a fantasy world of their own making. They actually think they can sell HBD.

    The alt-right and HBD nerds are almost entirely different groups and if you listen to the self-proclaimed alt-right leaders like Richard Spencer you’ll just hear them tell you that all this HBD nerdy science stuff has to be thrown out in favor of some spiritual racial identity that would supposedly appeal to the masses.

    By now the alt-right is pretty much just a neo-Nazi movement as everyone else left and Nazis of course reject HBD in favor of occult, supernatural views of race. They were not fans of IQ testing in particular since Jews scored so well.

    There’s not a single “far right” political party anywhere in the Western world that have adopted “HBD”. There are many anti-immigration parties, practically all of which try to avoid issues like race and IQ like plague and try to weasel out of the race issue by opposing Islam or illegal immigration or whatever. It never works because the left always knows it’s about not wanting black or brown immigration so they get attacked anyway.

    The “public” doesn’t get enraged at all if some politician were to admit that they believe in racial differences in intelligence. It’s not “unpalatable to the public”, it’s unpalatable to the journalists, academics and activists. Those people hate any right-wing platform anyway and it’s completely pointless to try to make any right-wing party “palatable” to Marxist professors. HBD is not a big vote winner since most of the public doesn’t care much about it but it’s not a vote loser at all.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Thulean Friend

    There’s not a single “far right” political party anywhere in the Western world that have adopted “HBD”.
     
    I would argue that FvD in the Netherlands comes quite close. Their leader has refused to deny the possibility of biological differences when asked point blank and has also refused to change his stance even when faced with a firestorm of criticism.

    I agree with you and reiner Tor, however, in that trying to hide it forever is a cowardly and ultimately self-defeating strategy. I would still defend Spencer's point that people don't get worked up over IQ graphs and that you need a more spiritual element to your identity, otherwise it becomes a sterile worship of your own blood and can easily descend into purity-spiralling.

    BTW, here's a new Pew survey on race in the US. Many graphs caught my eye but this one stands out.

    https://i.imgur.com/u4DmrOV.png

    It sorts of hits home just how much of an outlier white people are and once white people no longer form the overwhelming majority of the US, the country will get more and more tribal. I wouldn't exclude the possibility of the 2-party system breaking down and we could well see the emergence of specific race-based parties. Sort of how it is in India with regional parties catering to a specific group of people based on caste or religion.
    , @dfordoom

    HBD is not a big vote winner since most of the public doesn’t care much about it but it’s not a vote loser at all.
     
    It's not a direct vote loser perhaps. But the public doesn't actually care about anything very much. Mostly people vote the way the media (the old media and social media) tell them because that's the most socially acceptable thing to do. If a party were to espouse HBD the media would tell people that the party in question was composed of evil Nazis, and very few people would vote for it.

    So indirectly it would be a huge vote loser.

    Given the current political climate it might even get such a political party banned.
  262. Oh and BTW Finnish parliamentary elections today, results will start coming in a few hours. The anti-immigration populist party has been doing well in polls. They already won big in the previous elections but they betrayed their promises on immigration to get cabinet seats for their leaders and collapsed.

    They’ve since de-cucked by kicking out the previous leadership and now they seem to have climbed back to being one of the biggest parties with their new leader, this guy who started off his political career as a blogger who basically ripped off and translated all sorts of HBD stuff from Steve Sailer and VDARE to become the most popular political blogger in the country.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jussi_Halla-aho

    There’s no point whatsoever in avoiding HBD, you just have to have more content than that because numbers and statistics alone don’t carry a political movement.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    There’s no point whatsoever in avoiding HBD, you just have to have more content than that because numbers and statistics alone don’t carry a political movement.
     
    Very true. HBD is not a political platform, it’s not even a political issue (except its suppression), but there’s no point in avoiding it. It’s just a question of what is true out there in reality. The only political issue is that you should avoid lying about it and especially participating in witch-hunts against it, actually, you should be against its suppression whenever it comes up.
    , @Hail

    The anti-immigration populist party has been doing well in polls
     
    As of February, the Finns Party (Perussuomalaiset, abbreviation PS) looked set to take ~10% of seats, a big drop from their previous totals in the 2010s. Preliminary results today have them taking 39 seats of 200, or 19.5%. This is a remarkable gain in two months. Polls show steady gains over the past two months. What happened?
  263. @Jaakko Raipala
    Oh and BTW Finnish parliamentary elections today, results will start coming in a few hours. The anti-immigration populist party has been doing well in polls. They already won big in the previous elections but they betrayed their promises on immigration to get cabinet seats for their leaders and collapsed.

    They've since de-cucked by kicking out the previous leadership and now they seem to have climbed back to being one of the biggest parties with their new leader, this guy who started off his political career as a blogger who basically ripped off and translated all sorts of HBD stuff from Steve Sailer and VDARE to become the most popular political blogger in the country.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jussi_Halla-aho

    There's no point whatsoever in avoiding HBD, you just have to have more content than that because numbers and statistics alone don't carry a political movement.

    There’s no point whatsoever in avoiding HBD, you just have to have more content than that because numbers and statistics alone don’t carry a political movement.

    Very true. HBD is not a political platform, it’s not even a political issue (except its suppression), but there’s no point in avoiding it. It’s just a question of what is true out there in reality. The only political issue is that you should avoid lying about it and especially participating in witch-hunts against it, actually, you should be against its suppression whenever it comes up.

    • Replies: @anon

    Very true. HBD is not a political platform, it’s not even a political issue
     
    Because you are doing it wrong.
    HBDIQ is not something that could appeal to the masses, its natural audience are the high IQ, well educated people.
    If you want HBDIQism prevail, you need to preach to the best and brightest: "You are high IQ master race, born to rule. Your must put on the jackboots, pick up the whips and rule the moron masses of mankind forever, for their own good. This is your right, your duty and your destiny."
    If this will not be guaranteed success, nothing will.
  264. Thinking about one of the old ask threads, saw about the Serbian IQ thing. I’m a Serb and I do agree that there’s too much idiots here, and that the only reason that they’re not kept in line is because the government are literal thieving traitors (westerners should beware as this fate shall befall them very soon as well), on the other hand our students tend to do rather well on various competitions (as well as from other balkan countries). This also implies that we have satanical levels of depopulation and brain drain, as is correct

  265. @Thorfinnsson
    I understand the UN's purpose and don't accept it. I have the following problems with it:

    • Equality of states (other than P5) is incorrect and offensive
    • Failure to recognize the Right of Conquest is gay and results in endless frozen conflicts
    • Legally force can only be authorized by the UNSC which is preposterous
    • Constant efforts to stop conflicts with ceasefires and send peacekeepers just prevents one side from winning and ending it
    • Vast make-work bureaucracy for hordes of parasites, many of them Third Worlders
    • Part of the liberal Borg that seeks to make the whole word the same
    • UNDR is gay

    I like the idea of the US staying in the UN but intentionally crippling it as that would make the organization more useless than simply withdrawing from it.

    The ideal international system, to the extent such a thing exists, is the historical Concert of Europe. The world should be divided into spheres of influence with a focus on keeping the peace and suppressing revolution. That would of course require the US itself to recognize that other powers have interests and to cease being the instrument of global revolution.

    But the Concert of Europe was notoriously unable to prevent wars and revolutions.

    Another problem of having borders and international matters dictated by great powers is that you end up with small but differentiated peoples enclosed inside larger supra-national entities that hinder their economic development potential.

    Depending on contingencies such as alliances and balance of power dynamics, you may well have ended up with Finland (maybe even Sweden) controlled by the Russian Empire. This would have likely resulted in an impoverishment of the people in these countries compared to what they were able to achieve being independent.

    The problem is more acute if you happen to be a small ethnic group totally surrounded by two big nations of imperialist traditions. Even under the yoke of a not so wealthy country like Spain, Eurostat shows that the Basque per-capita GDP is comparable to some affluent nations in the EU (121 as percentage of the PPP EU average versus 126 for Germany, 121 for Sweden, 106 for the UK). You can’t of course extrapolate these figures too naively but there is little doubt that, ceteris paribus, we’d fare better independently rather than dragged down by a larger, poorer country. In practical terms, my mother would be enjoying a higher pension, my children would be able to get better paying jobs,… why should I prefer to let the matter of our sovereignty be decided by the great powers that be?

  266. @Mitleser
    This is amazing.

    https://twitter.com/JSCCounterPunch/status/1117205818909134848

    Their outrage is hilarious, if we turn the clock back further, to Indian days:

    Oregon was kind of a big territory. The inland natives would have undoubtedly killed, tortured, and perhaps cannibalized blacks, while they were still living. Sucking the marrow out of their bones to get the nutrients inside.

    The coastal ones, relatively richer, though they were only hunter-gatherers, would have undoubtedly made slaves of them, just as they did to the 3 survivors of the Hojun Maru blown way off course from Japan, all the way to the coast of the current state of Washington in 1834. They were ransomed by Hudson Bay Company traders – white men.

    And you know what? The Japanese did not accept them back, but fired warning shots at them. Japanese would have likely killed black settlers.

  267. anon[113] • Disclaimer says:
    @reiner Tor

    There’s no point whatsoever in avoiding HBD, you just have to have more content than that because numbers and statistics alone don’t carry a political movement.
     
    Very true. HBD is not a political platform, it’s not even a political issue (except its suppression), but there’s no point in avoiding it. It’s just a question of what is true out there in reality. The only political issue is that you should avoid lying about it and especially participating in witch-hunts against it, actually, you should be against its suppression whenever it comes up.

    Very true. HBD is not a political platform, it’s not even a political issue

    Because you are doing it wrong.
    HBDIQ is not something that could appeal to the masses, its natural audience are the high IQ, well educated people.
    If you want HBDIQism prevail, you need to preach to the best and brightest: “You are high IQ master race, born to rule. Your must put on the jackboots, pick up the whips and rule the moron masses of mankind forever, for their own good. This is your right, your duty and your destiny.”
    If this will not be guaranteed success, nothing will.

  268. @reiner Tor
    I guess the composer didn’t understand or think about how difficult it would be to stage the work in a middle income white (or Asian or even Mestizo, for the matter) countries. Or he just didn’t care. Anyway, I think in that case the composer’s wishes should be followed and the work shouldn’t be staged in Hungary.

    Is Porgy and Bess any good? I might check it out.

    The Miles Davis soundtrack is not bad.

  269. @Thorfinnsson
    I understand the UN's purpose and don't accept it. I have the following problems with it:

    • Equality of states (other than P5) is incorrect and offensive
    • Failure to recognize the Right of Conquest is gay and results in endless frozen conflicts
    • Legally force can only be authorized by the UNSC which is preposterous
    • Constant efforts to stop conflicts with ceasefires and send peacekeepers just prevents one side from winning and ending it
    • Vast make-work bureaucracy for hordes of parasites, many of them Third Worlders
    • Part of the liberal Borg that seeks to make the whole word the same
    • UNDR is gay

    I like the idea of the US staying in the UN but intentionally crippling it as that would make the organization more useless than simply withdrawing from it.

    The ideal international system, to the extent such a thing exists, is the historical Concert of Europe. The world should be divided into spheres of influence with a focus on keeping the peace and suppressing revolution. That would of course require the US itself to recognize that other powers have interests and to cease being the instrument of global revolution.

    As I said before, this whole platform is more or less identical with US world policy. The UN is simply a formalisation of it power, softening realities of US domination for the rest of world in the same way the ‘democracy’ makes people think they have any final say over their government.

    It seems to be a common thing amongst American ‘patriots’ and Americanophiles that [X] is not the ‘real’ America, but an aberration of some city-on-the-hill fantasy that never existed. It was inevitable from its founding that the US would end up as the shitshow it is now. The only way it will ever become a normal country is when the whole edifice collapses and balkanises.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    UN mainly boosts the diplomatic power of the Security Council members, relative particularly to non-members India, Japan, Germany and Brazil.

    Probably the greatest benefit* of this is for Russia, as the security council membership, gives a permanent diplomatic protection despite non-alignment with the West, and has been the key for allowing the "independent foreign policy" which Primakov had advocated. .


    To try to balance against Russia and China - the main UN-related story to watch in coming years, is how America is trying to make India become a permanent security council member.

    -

    *"Benefit" - Aside from the benefit in allowing Crimea to be rejoined, the long term effect of diplomatic protection has probably not really been a benefit, as it has enabled politicians' over-emphasis on costly "independent foreign policy" of Primakov, which was a distraction when national focus should have been more on internal development.

  270. @Jaakko Raipala

    But alt-righters live in a fantasy world of their own making. They actually think they can sell HBD.
     
    The alt-right and HBD nerds are almost entirely different groups and if you listen to the self-proclaimed alt-right leaders like Richard Spencer you'll just hear them tell you that all this HBD nerdy science stuff has to be thrown out in favor of some spiritual racial identity that would supposedly appeal to the masses.

    By now the alt-right is pretty much just a neo-Nazi movement as everyone else left and Nazis of course reject HBD in favor of occult, supernatural views of race. They were not fans of IQ testing in particular since Jews scored so well.

    There's not a single "far right" political party anywhere in the Western world that have adopted "HBD". There are many anti-immigration parties, practically all of which try to avoid issues like race and IQ like plague and try to weasel out of the race issue by opposing Islam or illegal immigration or whatever. It never works because the left always knows it's about not wanting black or brown immigration so they get attacked anyway.

    The "public" doesn't get enraged at all if some politician were to admit that they believe in racial differences in intelligence. It's not "unpalatable to the public", it's unpalatable to the journalists, academics and activists. Those people hate any right-wing platform anyway and it's completely pointless to try to make any right-wing party "palatable" to Marxist professors. HBD is not a big vote winner since most of the public doesn't care much about it but it's not a vote loser at all.

    There’s not a single “far right” political party anywhere in the Western world that have adopted “HBD”.

    I would argue that FvD in the Netherlands comes quite close. Their leader has refused to deny the possibility of biological differences when asked point blank and has also refused to change his stance even when faced with a firestorm of criticism.

    I agree with you and reiner Tor, however, in that trying to hide it forever is a cowardly and ultimately self-defeating strategy. I would still defend Spencer’s point that people don’t get worked up over IQ graphs and that you need a more spiritual element to your identity, otherwise it becomes a sterile worship of your own blood and can easily descend into purity-spiralling.

    BTW, here’s a new Pew survey on race in the US. Many graphs caught my eye but this one stands out.

    It sorts of hits home just how much of an outlier white people are and once white people no longer form the overwhelming majority of the US, the country will get more and more tribal. I wouldn’t exclude the possibility of the 2-party system breaking down and we could well see the emergence of specific race-based parties. Sort of how it is in India with regional parties catering to a specific group of people based on caste or religion.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    The real outlier are white liberals.

    https://archive.fo/YNWh2/745de75c6a430637a0f88b81da54eaee1e14d17e.jpg

    Sort of how it is in India with regional parties catering to a specific group of people based on caste or religion.
     
    You don't have to go that far.

    In a country with a troubled history of race-based politics, Guyana’s ethnic demographic may strongly influence the upcoming elections. Indo-Guyanese make up about 44 percent of the population, and people of African descent account for an approximate 30 percent. As Johnson suggests, the opposition PPP (with a strong Indian support base) may get the plurality of the vote in a general election, but this may not necessarily represent a majority in parliament. In fact, the previous PPP administration was a minority government.

    In some quarters, therefore, Persaud’s vote is being denounced as a supremely political move, designed to change the balance of power in parliament.

    Disturbing race-based rhetoric on social media has perhaps fed the narrative that Indo- and Afro-Guyanese will always support their own. Facebook user Michael Xavier commented:

    “We have become so fragmented as a people that every time there is an elections upcoming we see the ugly side of people. We can’t blame the politicians who capitalize on this, that’s on us. We have to be different if we wish to see a better Guyana.”

     


     
    https://www.caribbeannewsnow.com/2019/01/04/no-confidence-vote-finds-guyana-politics-in-uncharted-territory/
    , @Jaakko Raipala

    I would argue that FvD in the Netherlands comes quite close. Their leader has refused to deny the possibility of biological differences when asked point blank and has also refused to change his stance even when faced with a firestorm of criticism.
     
    Jussi Halla-aho, the current leader of the Finns party, is even further in that he has said that biological differences are the most likely cause. Still, it's a long way from a based, red pilled party leader to having that as a policy for the entire party and even Halla-aho doesn't make anything out of that politically, he just refuses to cuck when journalists ask him for the millionth time.
    <