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A couple of days ago, the Irish conservative journal The Burkean published an essay by its editor Michael O’Dwyer Connolly about the failure of the Convergence Hypothesis:

It is Sub-Saharan Africa that is the real worry for believers in convergence. Despite it being over half a century since European administrations vacated the continent, not only has it not improved, much of the continent is now poorer (in terms of quality of life, not GDP) than ever before. …

Despite this, the institutions argument is a jigsaw puzzle with missing pieces. It requires an understanding of human genetic diversity to make sense on a global scale (for example, why can’t certain countries create good institutions?).

This theory argues that a nation’s development potential is constrained by the basic psychological makeup of the population. The most important traits in this regard are intelligence and social trust.

Intelligence strongly correlates with many important factors like innovation and self-control. High intelligence means you can be a world-leader in cognitively-demanding fields. Sweden, for example, can produce fighter jets despite having only nine million people. Low intelligence means you have more non-functional people. These people might not be able to hold a job (especially in developed economies), they might be erratic or violent, and your society will often have to babysit them at great cost to everyone else.

Reasonably anodyne, patently commonsense – even if the article borrows perhaps a bit too generously from Guillaume Durocher’s The Convergence Hoax. (Though he’s cool with it).

Though you wouldn’t guess from the storm it unleashed on Irish Twitter, and not just amongst the usual SJWs:

… but the Irish cuckservatives as well:

Hey John, guess what. You lost your “culture war.” Your countrymen voted overwhelmingly to legalize abortion, Irish millennials couldn’t care less for Christianity, and your country is ruled by a gay Indian.

Perhaps it’s time to get your useless 34 year old boomer ass out of the way and let people who refuse to cuck have a go at salvaging the situation.

But TBH, the entire affair is certainly quite depressing.

Irish /pol/ was decidedly outnumbered by the SJWs/cuckservatives in the comments, which bodes ill for any immediate prospects of halting Ireland’s demographic replacement, which is advancing with unprecedented rapidity (current plans call for one million immigrants by 2040 on top of a population of less than 5 million). Imagine preserving your culture over centuries of British religious persecution, famines, Anglicization – then throwing it all away in the blink of an eye just to participate in the multiculti cargo cult and get back at a few pedo priests.

 
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  1. Despite it being over half a century since European administrations vacated the continent, not only has it not improved, much of the continent is now poorer (in terms of quality of life, not GDP) than ever before.

    This is a pretty serious overstatement.

    If not by per cap GDP, then by just which “quality of life” measures is Africa poorer than ever before? The author doesn’t say. Whatever measures he had in mind, it’s pretty daft to imagine that “much” of Africa (how much, dude? is it that hard to be specific?) is supposedly poorer in those terms than it was pre-1900. Come the fuck on.

    It’s great that HBDist ideas are spreading, however slowly and uncertainly, beyond the confines of the white right, but I’m not really not sure that people like this “Mícheál Ó’Duibhir Conghaile” (lol, I’ll never tire of ridiculing Irish spelling) are doing us any huge favors.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Karlin's blog will not be influential for average people of the present time anyway.

    We are here some few strange and futuristic cognoscenti, consoling the loneliness of our lack of numbers, only in knowledge that we may be foreshadowing a new kind of class of autistic intelligentsia that will dominate the 22nd century.

    , @Anatoly Karlin
    I agree, that statement is obviously wrong. Still, that's the exception, not the rule. His points on the med and post-Communist Europe are correct. It's a good article overall, that one minor error regardless.
    , @Serrice
    I specifically left that paragraph as bland and interpretive as possible precisely to avoid anything come back to bite me. We're in the experimental phase in Ireland.
  2. Irish chicks with a thick ass are fire.

    I can’t bear to see them go,

    Halt immigration!

    • Replies: @iffen
    Woot! Woot!
  3. Where did faux-conservatives get this idea that Edmund Burke is some sort of banal and inoffensive milquetoast moderate?

    I suspect they have never read Reflections on the Revolution in France, much less his later, even more strident works.

    Here is Burke being anti-semitic:

    They were not like Jew brokers contending with each other who could best remedy with fraudulent circulation and depreciated paper the wretchedness and ruin brought on by their degenerate councils.

    . . .

    We have in London very respectable persons of the Jewish nation, whom we will keep; but we have of the same tribe others of a very different description, – housebreakers, and receivers of stolen goods, and forgers of paper currency, more than we can conveniently hang.”

    And here is Burke being racist against the Iroquois:

    It was (unless we have been strangely deceived) a spectacle more resembling a procession of American savages entering into Onondaga after some of their murders called victories

  4. Europeans who use the term “white nationalist” should automatically be given a one way ticket to Zimbabwe. These people are just controlled opposition. They are probably more purely immoral than the other recognized political parties in China.

  5. I couldn’t understand these comment that well.

    But I think Declan Ganley, who is arguing in the Twitter comments posted above, is one of the most important “oligarchs” in Ireland.

    Maybe a few important people read the blog sometimes.

    • Replies: @(((They))) Live
    I wouldn't call Ganley an oligarch, the current establishment don't really like him so I don't think he has much influence over them
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    At the end of his article, Michael Connolly mentioned me as inspiring some of its ideas.

    Obviously, the SJWs started googling my name, and came upon that RationalWiki article, giving me a few hours of minor fame in the small pond that is Irish political Twitter.
  6. @silviosilver

    Despite it being over half a century since European administrations vacated the continent, not only has it not improved, much of the continent is now poorer (in terms of quality of life, not GDP) than ever before.
     
    This is a pretty serious overstatement.

    If not by per cap GDP, then by just which "quality of life" measures is Africa poorer than ever before? The author doesn't say. Whatever measures he had in mind, it's pretty daft to imagine that "much" of Africa (how much, dude? is it that hard to be specific?) is supposedly poorer in those terms than it was pre-1900. Come the fuck on.

    It's great that HBDist ideas are spreading, however slowly and uncertainly, beyond the confines of the white right, but I'm not really not sure that people like this "Mícheál Ó’Duibhir Conghaile" (lol, I'll never tire of ridiculing Irish spelling) are doing us any huge favors.

    Karlin’s blog will not be influential for average people of the present time anyway.

    We are here some few strange and futuristic cognoscenti, consoling the loneliness of our lack of numbers, only in knowledge that we may be foreshadowing a new kind of class of autistic intelligentsia that will dominate the 22nd century.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    I take heart from the fact that, if nothing else, we are leaving a record for posterity that proves some of us saw what was coming and vainly tried to avert it.

    That said, as pessimistic as I am about the short-term (ie the next 50-100 years), I am actually quite optimistic about the distant future (which lies in space). I just hate having to watch a people and culture I love (Europeans) so heedlessly hurting themselves.
    , @iffen
    We are here some few strange

    Some, more than others.
  7. @Dmitry
    I couldn't understand these comment that well.

    But I think Declan Ganley, who is arguing in the Twitter comments posted above, is one of the most important "oligarchs" in Ireland.

    Maybe a few important people read the blog sometimes.

    I wouldn’t call Ganley an oligarch, the current establishment don’t really like him so I don’t think he has much influence over them

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    You're correct, he says not involved in politics at this time.

    He is intelligent:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuhJ22KGnSQ

  8. @silviosilver

    Despite it being over half a century since European administrations vacated the continent, not only has it not improved, much of the continent is now poorer (in terms of quality of life, not GDP) than ever before.
     
    This is a pretty serious overstatement.

    If not by per cap GDP, then by just which "quality of life" measures is Africa poorer than ever before? The author doesn't say. Whatever measures he had in mind, it's pretty daft to imagine that "much" of Africa (how much, dude? is it that hard to be specific?) is supposedly poorer in those terms than it was pre-1900. Come the fuck on.

    It's great that HBDist ideas are spreading, however slowly and uncertainly, beyond the confines of the white right, but I'm not really not sure that people like this "Mícheál Ó’Duibhir Conghaile" (lol, I'll never tire of ridiculing Irish spelling) are doing us any huge favors.

    I agree, that statement is obviously wrong. Still, that’s the exception, not the rule. His points on the med and post-Communist Europe are correct. It’s a good article overall, that one minor error regardless.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    It's not as minor as you think. Its implications are easy to skip by and miss, but read properly, it suggests a level of African hopelessness that is way beyond what the facts of HBD actually imply. This is what makes it not-so-minor. Much of the indignation of anti-HBDers is related to their fear that HBD basically implies some groups (blacks, mainly) are "hopeless." It's not only incorrect and unnecessary to maintain that Africans are utterly hopeless, it makes the case for HBD harder for opponents and normies to accept rather than easier. It's quite sufficient to maintain that HBD implies intractable developmental differences, even if it's difficult (or impossible) to state with precision the level or degree of such differences.
  9. @Dmitry
    I couldn't understand these comment that well.

    But I think Declan Ganley, who is arguing in the Twitter comments posted above, is one of the most important "oligarchs" in Ireland.

    Maybe a few important people read the blog sometimes.

    At the end of his article, Michael Connolly mentioned me as inspiring some of its ideas.

    Obviously, the SJWs started googling my name, and came upon that RationalWiki article, giving me a few hours of minor fame in the small pond that is Irish political Twitter.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    And lol an article you influenced, has somehow annoyed Declan Ganley - one of the most important businessmen of Ireland.

    RationalWiki is a perfect example of "Free Rider Effect" in marketing. People see "Wiki" in the name and they have copied format of the website, and seem to unconsciously assume it is like the real Wikipedia (and not what the website really is - just a version of "Lurkmore" but for SJW).

  10. @Anatoly Karlin
    I agree, that statement is obviously wrong. Still, that's the exception, not the rule. His points on the med and post-Communist Europe are correct. It's a good article overall, that one minor error regardless.

    It’s not as minor as you think. Its implications are easy to skip by and miss, but read properly, it suggests a level of African hopelessness that is way beyond what the facts of HBD actually imply. This is what makes it not-so-minor. Much of the indignation of anti-HBDers is related to their fear that HBD basically implies some groups (blacks, mainly) are “hopeless.” It’s not only incorrect and unnecessary to maintain that Africans are utterly hopeless, it makes the case for HBD harder for opponents and normies to accept rather than easier. It’s quite sufficient to maintain that HBD implies intractable developmental differences, even if it’s difficult (or impossible) to state with precision the level or degree of such differences.

    • Replies: @iffen
    Thanks for helping me understand why I will not in the future describe myself as an HBDer.
  11. @Dmitry
    Karlin's blog will not be influential for average people of the present time anyway.

    We are here some few strange and futuristic cognoscenti, consoling the loneliness of our lack of numbers, only in knowledge that we may be foreshadowing a new kind of class of autistic intelligentsia that will dominate the 22nd century.

    I take heart from the fact that, if nothing else, we are leaving a record for posterity that proves some of us saw what was coming and vainly tried to avert it.

    That said, as pessimistic as I am about the short-term (ie the next 50-100 years), I am actually quite optimistic about the distant future (which lies in space). I just hate having to watch a people and culture I love (Europeans) so heedlessly hurting themselves.

  12. anonymous[191] • Disclaimer says:

    Whatever happened to the nationalistic fire that was in Irish people until recently? What happened to the IRA? Was it always controlled opposition? Did the real Irish nationalism die with people like Michael Collins in 1922? Has everything “nationalistic” since that time been phony? I think I know the answer. “Irish nationalism” was always tied up with strong religious beliefs, whether Catholic or Protestant, now that the people have abandoned religion en masse or taken up an extremely watered down version of it, we have that void being taken up with forms of humanism. A well-off population that doesn’t have a strong belief system is easy prey to fast-talking celebrities and university professors that push the idea of diversity and multiculturalism. Why should we Irish who have a boring and bland culture refuse to bring into our country black and brown people who have so much to offer? Everything about them is cool and they’ve suffered so much because of colonialism. What’s not to love about them? Multiculturalism and diversity are sold as being cool and nationalism is something that is extremely uncool. As we know it hasn’t always been this way, back in 1933, Adolf was the coolest thing going. Nationalism isn’t doing a very good job selling itself lately, in Ireland especially. Perhaps the Irish nation’s lack of experience with non-whites historically and in the present day makes them so naive. Perhaps when Dublin has no-go zones like Stockholm and Malmo the Irish will begin to wake up.

    • Replies: @(((They))) Live
    Whatever happened to the nationalistic fire that was in Irish people until recently? What happened to the IRA? Was it always controlled opposition?



    Its still there, but why the majority of the PIRA decided to do a deal with the UK government is the interesting question, IMO one or more of the leaders of Sinn Fein/IRA worked with MI5 to slowly eliminate hardliners who would never agree to peace, once they were dead its was possible to do a deal with the unionists/UK government

    The way Brexit is going a united Ireland may not be as far off as people think
    , @EldnahYm
    Irish nationalism has always been about anti-British feelings, it's never been about being pro-Irish. When Irish fury can't be directed towards blaming all of their problems on the U.K., they're completely defenseless.

    To say the same about Irish Catholicism would be an enormous exaggeration, but there's even a whiff of the tendency there. Certainly historically.

  13. @Anon
    Irish chicks with a thick ass are fire.

    I can't bear to see them go,

    Halt immigration!

    Woot! Woot!

  14. @Anatoly Karlin
    At the end of his article, Michael Connolly mentioned me as inspiring some of its ideas.

    Obviously, the SJWs started googling my name, and came upon that RationalWiki article, giving me a few hours of minor fame in the small pond that is Irish political Twitter.

    And lol an article you influenced, has somehow annoyed Declan Ganley – one of the most important businessmen of Ireland.

    RationalWiki is a perfect example of “Free Rider Effect” in marketing. People see “Wiki” in the name and they have copied format of the website, and seem to unconsciously assume it is like the real Wikipedia (and not what the website really is – just a version of “Lurkmore” but for SJW).

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
  15. @silviosilver
    It's not as minor as you think. Its implications are easy to skip by and miss, but read properly, it suggests a level of African hopelessness that is way beyond what the facts of HBD actually imply. This is what makes it not-so-minor. Much of the indignation of anti-HBDers is related to their fear that HBD basically implies some groups (blacks, mainly) are "hopeless." It's not only incorrect and unnecessary to maintain that Africans are utterly hopeless, it makes the case for HBD harder for opponents and normies to accept rather than easier. It's quite sufficient to maintain that HBD implies intractable developmental differences, even if it's difficult (or impossible) to state with precision the level or degree of such differences.

    Thanks for helping me understand why I will not in the future describe myself as an HBDer.

  16. @Dmitry
    Karlin's blog will not be influential for average people of the present time anyway.

    We are here some few strange and futuristic cognoscenti, consoling the loneliness of our lack of numbers, only in knowledge that we may be foreshadowing a new kind of class of autistic intelligentsia that will dominate the 22nd century.

    We are here some few strange

    Some, more than others.

  17. They are cuckservatives, but by definition they are the opposite to eternal. Their ideology means they are actively supporting their own demise, people with such self destructive beliefs have a 0% survival chance.

  18. @anonymous
    Whatever happened to the nationalistic fire that was in Irish people until recently? What happened to the IRA? Was it always controlled opposition? Did the real Irish nationalism die with people like Michael Collins in 1922? Has everything "nationalistic" since that time been phony? I think I know the answer. "Irish nationalism" was always tied up with strong religious beliefs, whether Catholic or Protestant, now that the people have abandoned religion en masse or taken up an extremely watered down version of it, we have that void being taken up with forms of humanism. A well-off population that doesn't have a strong belief system is easy prey to fast-talking celebrities and university professors that push the idea of diversity and multiculturalism. Why should we Irish who have a boring and bland culture refuse to bring into our country black and brown people who have so much to offer? Everything about them is cool and they've suffered so much because of colonialism. What's not to love about them? Multiculturalism and diversity are sold as being cool and nationalism is something that is extremely uncool. As we know it hasn't always been this way, back in 1933, Adolf was the coolest thing going. Nationalism isn't doing a very good job selling itself lately, in Ireland especially. Perhaps the Irish nation's lack of experience with non-whites historically and in the present day makes them so naive. Perhaps when Dublin has no-go zones like Stockholm and Malmo the Irish will begin to wake up.

    Whatever happened to the nationalistic fire that was in Irish people until recently? What happened to the IRA? Was it always controlled opposition?

    Its still there, but why the majority of the PIRA decided to do a deal with the UK government is the interesting question, IMO one or more of the leaders of Sinn Fein/IRA worked with MI5 to slowly eliminate hardliners who would never agree to peace, once they were dead its was possible to do a deal with the unionists/UK government

    The way Brexit is going a united Ireland may not be as far off as people think

  19. My main issue with HBD is that it just reeks of defeatism and also ‘everything is fine’ type of attitude. Europe and the west in general right now is ongoing major spiritual, cultural decline. Family formation is stopping. Nationalism/conservatism is dead. Church attendance/any type of serious christianity is in the total shitter. There’s no sense of collective pride, ethos or any feeling that the west is in any way exceptional now. Clearly none of this is biological, because this was not the case in 1850.

    Meanwhile HBD’ers continue to masturbate over the “high IQ” and “low clannishness” of western europeans, completely ignoring the total cultural and spiritual collapse of western civilization as a whole.

    One arguement i never hear, and this is quite sad honestly, because moldbug and other nrx’ers used to write this quite a bit, is that it’s not the colonization movement that ruined Africa, or their low IQs, but rather the decolonization movement. Certainly, if you take a look at the Congo in the 1950s, you get the impression that Africa would have definitely prospered had power been transfered to less insane people. https://radishmag.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/1955-05-boom-in-the-jungle.pdf. And this isn’t just a one-off example. What happened in the Congo happened in pretty much every single former colony ever, except Singapore, United Arab Emirates and a few others who somehow managed to escape the wreckage.

    Nowadays the Congo of course is possibly the worst country in the world, but in the 1950s under Belgian rule it had an infant mortality lower than of Italy. Quite an achievement for a country that 50 years ago had no wheel, no agriculture, no alphabet and basically no society of any kind. Another example is Jamaica, which had the lowest crime rates in the world under British rule, and was a favourite amongst retiring british officers. Today, Jamaica has the highest crime rate in the world, and is a total failure of a country. How about that genetic hypothesis?

    It’s kind of strange that the last great statesmen of the west weren’t the ones that ruled their home countries, rather they were generally offloaded to some colonial backwater. Eventually though, the unstoppable wave of progress came for them too.

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    Do you have a source for the infant mortality part, please?
    , @Anatoly Karlin

    Family formation is stopping. Nationalism/conservatism is dead. Church attendance/any type of serious christianity is in the total shitter.
     
    Exactly. It is a dead ideology.

    Consequently, there is absolutely no logical argument any more against mass Third World immigration apart from HBD.

    spandrell made this point very succinctly here: https://bloodyshovel.wordpress.com/2019/01/02/nassim-taleb-is-retarded/

    Nowadays the Congo of course is possibly the worst country in the world, but in the 1950s under Belgian rule it had an infant mortality lower than of Italy.
     
    Almost certainly false.

    Another example is Jamaica, which had the lowest crime rates in the world under British rule, and was a favourite amongst retiring british officers. Today, Jamaica has the highest crime rate in the world, and is a total failure of a country. How about that genetic hypothesis?
     
    What that essay also touches upon: Institutions. Which were maintained (while they lasted) by imported European "smart fractions" (which have a disproportionate effect on society).

    That said, Jamaica has nowhere near the world's crime rate. It is pretty successful for a black country.
  20. @(((They))) Live
    I wouldn't call Ganley an oligarch, the current establishment don't really like him so I don't think he has much influence over them

    You’re correct, he says not involved in politics at this time.

    He is intelligent:

  21. I think we Hibernians in America (the rank and file, not people like the Kennedys) are more based than those in Ireland.

    • Agree: Digital Samizdat
    • Replies: @EldnahYm
    The Kennedy's would have never sniffed the Presidency without the support of the Irish Catholic rank and file. Don't kid yourself.
  22. I did credit Guillaume D at the end, so I was hoping he wouldn’t mind. The premise of his piece was too good not to share with the Irish audience.

    The establishment conservatives set upon me and The Burkean with a fury I had barely thought possible.

    In essence they exist to be panelists and columnists in an entirely controlled media system, so that it can maintain the visage of free speech and openness. No one reads them or cares what they think. My 400 follower account gets more interaction than McGuirk’s 10k one.

    Our existence and the more pragmatic nationalist right that we are building threatens their purpose, so they struck out. Thanks for the mention anyway.

    • Replies: @silviosilver

    The establishment conservatives set upon me and The Burkean with a fury I had barely thought possible.
     
    So what's the next move, cuck and apologize or hold your ground?

    If you choose the latter, imo the best way is to point out that HBD is a reality is that is not going away, regardless of whether one likes it or not; and that if we refuse to state the true reasons for observable reality, we are stuck with false reasons, all of which are a variation on 'blame whitey,' which not only creates enormous levels of unjustified anti-white resentment, but leaves whites racially and culturally defenseless. (Eg the whole sordid Brits out, blacks in phenomenon.)

    And if they have a problem with someone speaking up in defense of whites, you can point out that whites are people too, dammit.

    Anyway, sorry if I sounded harsh in my criticism. I respect anyone who sticks his neck out on this issue. And I know only too well how difficult it is to talk sense to people who are thoroughly determined to object to your perspective. If there does exist a magic formula, I sure as hell have not found it.

  23. @silviosilver

    Despite it being over half a century since European administrations vacated the continent, not only has it not improved, much of the continent is now poorer (in terms of quality of life, not GDP) than ever before.
     
    This is a pretty serious overstatement.

    If not by per cap GDP, then by just which "quality of life" measures is Africa poorer than ever before? The author doesn't say. Whatever measures he had in mind, it's pretty daft to imagine that "much" of Africa (how much, dude? is it that hard to be specific?) is supposedly poorer in those terms than it was pre-1900. Come the fuck on.

    It's great that HBDist ideas are spreading, however slowly and uncertainly, beyond the confines of the white right, but I'm not really not sure that people like this "Mícheál Ó’Duibhir Conghaile" (lol, I'll never tire of ridiculing Irish spelling) are doing us any huge favors.

    I specifically left that paragraph as bland and interpretive as possible precisely to avoid anything come back to bite me. We’re in the experimental phase in Ireland.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    I specifically left that paragraph as bland and interpretive as possible precisely to avoid anything come back to bite me. We’re in the experimental phase in Ireland.
     
    I would like to point out something:

    Take the Koreas as an example. Sixty years ago, there was barely a building left standing on the Korean peninsula, having been subject to a century of Japanese colonialism and then a brutal war that saw American and Chinese armies obliterate what remained of their nation.
     
    Although Japan (along with Russia) had been angling for influence in Korea and wrest it away from Chinese suzerainty rather early (such as Treaty of 1876), it was only after the Treaties of 1905, 1907 and the final annexation Treaty of 1910 that Japan gained predominant control over Korea.

    Thus, rather than a century, effective Japanese imperialism over Korea lasted 35-40 years.

    And then, even if one could perhaps justifiably argue that Korean national aspirations were hampered during most of this period and that the gains from economic development accrued disproportionately to Japanese and select upper-class Koreans, it seems odd to imply that Korean development regressed and that the peaceful (if perhaps unfair) Japanese rule was more harmful to Korea's development than the 1950-1953 war.

  24. @Potato
    My main issue with HBD is that it just reeks of defeatism and also 'everything is fine' type of attitude. Europe and the west in general right now is ongoing major spiritual, cultural decline. Family formation is stopping. Nationalism/conservatism is dead. Church attendance/any type of serious christianity is in the total shitter. There's no sense of collective pride, ethos or any feeling that the west is in any way exceptional now. Clearly none of this is biological, because this was not the case in 1850.

    Meanwhile HBD'ers continue to masturbate over the "high IQ" and "low clannishness" of western europeans, completely ignoring the total cultural and spiritual collapse of western civilization as a whole.

    One arguement i never hear, and this is quite sad honestly, because moldbug and other nrx'ers used to write this quite a bit, is that it's not the colonization movement that ruined Africa, or their low IQs, but rather the decolonization movement. Certainly, if you take a look at the Congo in the 1950s, you get the impression that Africa would have definitely prospered had power been transfered to less insane people. https://radishmag.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/1955-05-boom-in-the-jungle.pdf. And this isn't just a one-off example. What happened in the Congo happened in pretty much every single former colony ever, except Singapore, United Arab Emirates and a few others who somehow managed to escape the wreckage.

    Nowadays the Congo of course is possibly the worst country in the world, but in the 1950s under Belgian rule it had an infant mortality lower than of Italy. Quite an achievement for a country that 50 years ago had no wheel, no agriculture, no alphabet and basically no society of any kind. Another example is Jamaica, which had the lowest crime rates in the world under British rule, and was a favourite amongst retiring british officers. Today, Jamaica has the highest crime rate in the world, and is a total failure of a country. How about that genetic hypothesis?

    It's kind of strange that the last great statesmen of the west weren't the ones that ruled their home countries, rather they were generally offloaded to some colonial backwater. Eventually though, the unstoppable wave of progress came for them too.

    Do you have a source for the infant mortality part, please?

    • Replies: @Potato
    Its from the times article I linked
  25. @Serrice
    I specifically left that paragraph as bland and interpretive as possible precisely to avoid anything come back to bite me. We're in the experimental phase in Ireland.

    I specifically left that paragraph as bland and interpretive as possible precisely to avoid anything come back to bite me. We’re in the experimental phase in Ireland.

    I would like to point out something:

    Take the Koreas as an example. Sixty years ago, there was barely a building left standing on the Korean peninsula, having been subject to a century of Japanese colonialism and then a brutal war that saw American and Chinese armies obliterate what remained of their nation.

    Although Japan (along with Russia) had been angling for influence in Korea and wrest it away from Chinese suzerainty rather early (such as Treaty of 1876), it was only after the Treaties of 1905, 1907 and the final annexation Treaty of 1910 that Japan gained predominant control over Korea.

    Thus, rather than a century, effective Japanese imperialism over Korea lasted 35-40 years.

    And then, even if one could perhaps justifiably argue that Korean national aspirations were hampered during most of this period and that the gains from economic development accrued disproportionately to Japanese and select upper-class Koreans, it seems odd to imply that Korean development regressed and that the peaceful (if perhaps unfair) Japanese rule was more harmful to Korea’s development than the 1950-1953 war.

    • Replies: @Serrice
    To be completely honest with you, the 'hundred years of colonialism' was a bit of artistic licence so that in the mind of the reader they would associate it with the hundred years of European rule in Africa.

    It may not be the most principled journalism, but I was experimenting with pushing the limits of the Irish Overton Window.

    You're completely correct in regards the history of course.

  26. @Hyperborean

    I specifically left that paragraph as bland and interpretive as possible precisely to avoid anything come back to bite me. We’re in the experimental phase in Ireland.
     
    I would like to point out something:

    Take the Koreas as an example. Sixty years ago, there was barely a building left standing on the Korean peninsula, having been subject to a century of Japanese colonialism and then a brutal war that saw American and Chinese armies obliterate what remained of their nation.
     
    Although Japan (along with Russia) had been angling for influence in Korea and wrest it away from Chinese suzerainty rather early (such as Treaty of 1876), it was only after the Treaties of 1905, 1907 and the final annexation Treaty of 1910 that Japan gained predominant control over Korea.

    Thus, rather than a century, effective Japanese imperialism over Korea lasted 35-40 years.

    And then, even if one could perhaps justifiably argue that Korean national aspirations were hampered during most of this period and that the gains from economic development accrued disproportionately to Japanese and select upper-class Koreans, it seems odd to imply that Korean development regressed and that the peaceful (if perhaps unfair) Japanese rule was more harmful to Korea's development than the 1950-1953 war.

    To be completely honest with you, the ‘hundred years of colonialism’ was a bit of artistic licence so that in the mind of the reader they would associate it with the hundred years of European rule in Africa.

    It may not be the most principled journalism, but I was experimenting with pushing the limits of the Irish Overton Window.

    You’re completely correct in regards the history of course.

  27. @Serrice
    I did credit Guillaume D at the end, so I was hoping he wouldn't mind. The premise of his piece was too good not to share with the Irish audience.

    The establishment conservatives set upon me and The Burkean with a fury I had barely thought possible.

    In essence they exist to be panelists and columnists in an entirely controlled media system, so that it can maintain the visage of free speech and openness. No one reads them or cares what they think. My 400 follower account gets more interaction than McGuirk's 10k one.

    Our existence and the more pragmatic nationalist right that we are building threatens their purpose, so they struck out. Thanks for the mention anyway.

    The establishment conservatives set upon me and The Burkean with a fury I had barely thought possible.

    So what’s the next move, cuck and apologize or hold your ground?

    If you choose the latter, imo the best way is to point out that HBD is a reality is that is not going away, regardless of whether one likes it or not; and that if we refuse to state the true reasons for observable reality, we are stuck with false reasons, all of which are a variation on ‘blame whitey,’ which not only creates enormous levels of unjustified anti-white resentment, but leaves whites racially and culturally defenseless. (Eg the whole sordid Brits out, blacks in phenomenon.)

    And if they have a problem with someone speaking up in defense of whites, you can point out that whites are people too, dammit.

    Anyway, sorry if I sounded harsh in my criticism. I respect anyone who sticks his neck out on this issue. And I know only too well how difficult it is to talk sense to people who are thoroughly determined to object to your perspective. If there does exist a magic formula, I sure as hell have not found it.

    • Replies: @Serrice
    Definitely won't be cucking out. Their reaction has confirmed to me the need to end them once and for all.

    The 'white' people rhetoric doesn't really work here because we were literally 99% white up until around 2005, even now it's probably at 95%. Barely anyone has experience with non-Europeans. Most of our immigrants are either Eastern European low-wagers or Western European tech professionals - both contribute to the economy (for the most part).

    I'll be using my rather extensive network to further develop Ireland's 'new' Right. Expect interesting things over the next few months.

    I love criticism, don't worry. The more and the harsher the better.
  28. @silviosilver

    The establishment conservatives set upon me and The Burkean with a fury I had barely thought possible.
     
    So what's the next move, cuck and apologize or hold your ground?

    If you choose the latter, imo the best way is to point out that HBD is a reality is that is not going away, regardless of whether one likes it or not; and that if we refuse to state the true reasons for observable reality, we are stuck with false reasons, all of which are a variation on 'blame whitey,' which not only creates enormous levels of unjustified anti-white resentment, but leaves whites racially and culturally defenseless. (Eg the whole sordid Brits out, blacks in phenomenon.)

    And if they have a problem with someone speaking up in defense of whites, you can point out that whites are people too, dammit.

    Anyway, sorry if I sounded harsh in my criticism. I respect anyone who sticks his neck out on this issue. And I know only too well how difficult it is to talk sense to people who are thoroughly determined to object to your perspective. If there does exist a magic formula, I sure as hell have not found it.

    Definitely won’t be cucking out. Their reaction has confirmed to me the need to end them once and for all.

    The ‘white’ people rhetoric doesn’t really work here because we were literally 99% white up until around 2005, even now it’s probably at 95%. Barely anyone has experience with non-Europeans. Most of our immigrants are either Eastern European low-wagers or Western European tech professionals – both contribute to the economy (for the most part).

    I’ll be using my rather extensive network to further develop Ireland’s ‘new’ Right. Expect interesting things over the next few months.

    I love criticism, don’t worry. The more and the harsher the better.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @silviosilver
    "Striking a blow for the white race" may not be the most appropriate way of framing Irish nationalism (I've always found that "white pride" thing extremely clownish), but it surely makes sense to reject assertions (even merely implied ones) that the Irish deserve to be penalized for being white - which they are, or will be, if they accept the "black problems caused by white racism" narrative. I don't see how that can be done without being specific about it. I can accept that in an overwhelmingly white society, people don't "get" race, and think you're just being mean if you bring it up, but you don't need to look far to find examples of where silence gets you (U.S.-style negrofuxxation).
    , @dvorak

    I’ll be using my rather extensive network to further develop Ireland’s ‘new’ Right. Expect interesting things over the next few months.
     
    Look up Steve Bannon, I believe he lives in the Capitol Hill neighborhood, Washington, DC.

    Always attack a traitor before an enemy. Cuckservatives are the softest of soft targets. Lay into neolib/neocon tycoons a la Ann Coulter.
    https://twitter.com/anncoulter/status/1081225501069533184?lang=en

    On that note, how about a sizable wealth tax for the bastards who think it's great to replace the Irish people using mass immigration - come right out for that wealth tax in the double digits. Eight percent is a normal return in the stock market - the wealth tax should be thirteen percent per year to make it sporting. 'Revenge for Replacing Us'.
    , @Toronto Russian

    I love criticism, don’t worry. The more and the harsher the better.
     
    That's nice.

    The theory of a black population's innate inability of holding its act together is refuted by Namibia. Your Twitter opponents could just post videos from there and be much more convincing than with what they do now.

    https://youtu.be/8aYK2PfKFWM

    This clip is 15 minutes of driving by pristine graffiti-free walls and roadsides not "adorned" by scattered garbage*. There are signs of poverty like makeshift market stalls, but you can see civilized-looking bridges over ditches and clean new cars. Stats say Namibia is an upper middle income country, and it's winning against the AIDS epidemic. How would an HBDist explain the difference from the disfunctional life of their genetic cousins in South Africa? Too bad this country is usually forgotten, being tiny (2.6 million) and not making news.

    *In contrast to this, Despacito music video shows garbage heaps on the shore of Puerto Rico (that has a racially mixed population) - they couldn't even clean it up for the filming or find a clean spot!
  29. @Serrice
    Definitely won't be cucking out. Their reaction has confirmed to me the need to end them once and for all.

    The 'white' people rhetoric doesn't really work here because we were literally 99% white up until around 2005, even now it's probably at 95%. Barely anyone has experience with non-Europeans. Most of our immigrants are either Eastern European low-wagers or Western European tech professionals - both contribute to the economy (for the most part).

    I'll be using my rather extensive network to further develop Ireland's 'new' Right. Expect interesting things over the next few months.

    I love criticism, don't worry. The more and the harsher the better.

    “Striking a blow for the white race” may not be the most appropriate way of framing Irish nationalism (I’ve always found that “white pride” thing extremely clownish), but it surely makes sense to reject assertions (even merely implied ones) that the Irish deserve to be penalized for being white – which they are, or will be, if they accept the “black problems caused by white racism” narrative. I don’t see how that can be done without being specific about it. I can accept that in an overwhelmingly white society, people don’t “get” race, and think you’re just being mean if you bring it up, but you don’t need to look far to find examples of where silence gets you (U.S.-style negrofuxxation).

    • Replies: @Serrice
    I've found the best way to appeal to racialist tendencies in people is not to advocate for whites but rather to remind my fellow Irishmen that our history is basically a thousand years of ethnic conflict.
  30. Anonymous[151] • Disclaimer says:

    What’s amazing to me, as an American, is how thoroughly American (i.e. Democratic party-type neoliberal) norms and values have permeated the intellectual culture in Western Europe. I think a lot of Europeans are too close to the situation to really appreciate it–and the idea that they’re being influenced by the tacky, tasteless, dumb Americans induces a bit of denial–but imo it’s screamingly obvious. I mean, an Irishman using “white nationalist” as an insult against another Irishman? Uh, what?

    It’s obvious too in all the rhetoric regarding abortion, gay marriage, #MeToo etc etc. It’s all so soapy and melodramatic and childish. Like a lot of Americans, I always just sort of assumed Europeans were smarter than us. No longer.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    This is something I have remarked upon a lot as well. (Conversely, American millennials have also adopted European social attitudes. It's a Great Homogenization).

    Russia is an interesting edge case. Some aspects of American culture have penetrated very deeply (Game of Thrones, burgers) but #MeToo, #BLM, all of that crap, hasn't really made any inroads apart from a small subset of elite university students.
    , @songbird
    Nowadays, the English language is a superhighway into pozz. It is really remarkable, if you know something about Irish culture. It is possibly the most nationalistic in all of Europe. There are dozens and dozens of nationalistic songs. Some are old, like "Mo Ghile Mear." Some are newer, like the Wolfetones' "Men Behind the Wire", which, at least briefly, in 1972 reached #1 in the Irish charts.

    I'm not sure Ireland would be protected if they still spoke Irish as their primary language. They'd have to not speak English, which would be pretty hard to manage. But I think this really validates the mimetic view of leftist politics.
  31. Never thought even the Irish, one of the most rough and tumble people in north western europe, would get THIS cucked. To be reamed ruled by a Gay Hindu man while screeching about how much they “luv it” is as woke as it gets.

    • Replies: @Parbes
    "Never thought even the Irish, one of the most rough and tumble people in north western europe, would get THIS cucked."

    In addition to being "one of the most rough and tumble people", the Irish have also always been one of the DUMBEST people in Europe, too. It's not for nothing that they were called the "niggers of Europe".
    , @(((They))) live
    The gay hindu didn't win an election yet, it looks like we might have an election sometime after Brexit, I don't expect the gay hindu to win, that said the other options are little better
  32. Ireland is finished, all too often it seems these minor nations which are so obsessed with getting freedom from a bigger nation end up being the most cucked, Ireland, Scotland, Catalonia are all examples, I have no doubt if Scotland and Catalonia were nations they would be far more globalist then the countries that they are currently part of are.

    The case of Ireland in particular shows the complete failure of mainstream conservatism, including a mainline religious branch such as Catholicism to put up any defence against the globalist ideology, globalist ideology was developed in an environment where mainstream conservatism was the main enemy and hence is a direct counter to it. Only nationalist or reactionary politics has any chance at defeating globalism in the western context in my opinion. Unfortunately, such politics are too extreme for many of the cuckservatives.

    Also with regards to Ireland, all the things that made it “exceptional” are gone, high religiosity, higher fertility, it looks like Irish TFR which as recently as 2009 was 2.1 dropped below 1.8 last year for the first time in its history, wouldn’t surprise me if it dropped all the way down to 1.5 in the coming decade. At least Ireland will probably stay above Scotland which looks like it had fertility drop to a new record low of 1.44 last year.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Serrice
    I wouldn't be so sure, certainly if I thought Ireland was finished I wouldn't be trying to build a career out of fixing it.

    Irish people still rank quite high on a lot of 'basedness' indicators. Everything from idealised TFR to ethnic awareness, appreciation of native culture, etc.

    To compress a hundred years of culture war into one paragraph, this massive liberal burst in the last 5-10 years is just a reaction to the quite literally instant disintegration of Catholic moral authority (which is positive, the church was a major force in our decline). It just outright died shortly after the turn of the millennium and when coupled with the economic boom, left/liberalism rode in utterly unopposed.

    If the rest of the world's ideological pendulum has been slowly swinging towards globohomo for 60 years or so, Ireland's has only truly been doing it for 20. The return will be quicker than you expect. Plus conflict in the North could easily spring up again (paramilitaries have started recruitment drives for first time since '98) and that'll get people off their ass for sure.

  33. @Mr. XYZ
    Do you have a source for the infant mortality part, please?

    Its from the times article I linked

    • Replies: @for-the-record
    Its from the times article I linked

    But this didn't apply to Congo as a whole: "In some areas, the Congo's infant-mortality rate is
    down to 60 per 1,000—better than Italy's figure."

    But this wasn't the case overall:

    "In the beginning of the 1950s the DRC had similar levels of infant mortality (167 deaths per 1000 live births) compared to its neighbor Rwanda (161 deaths per 1000 live births), but higher than sub-Saharan Africa combined (111 deaths per 1000 live births)."

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5053205/
  34. Imagine preserving your culture over centuries of British religious persecution, famines, Anglicization – then throwing it all away in the blink of an eye just to participate in the multiculti cargo cult and get back at a few pedo priests.

    Being of Irish extraction myself, I used to support Irish nationalism. But this is why I no longer can … it’s pointless. The Irish are rapidly accomplishing what the British failed slowly to accomplish: the destruction of the Irish people. Sad …

    • Replies: @LostHopeless
    Apparently when their numbers reach a "critical mass" in relatively passive, egalitarian first world nations, even the most "model" of minorities then start to agitate for MORE. Here we have the passive aggressive H1B dot Indians agitating for legislation to grant them green cards much faster than is the current average wait time for Indians [all due to their own making as they've choked the pipeline like it was some bombay sewage conduit] . They have the balls to agitate in front of the freaking white house after what they've done to our legal immigration system and the tech industry [gamed it completely in their favor]
  35. @Digital Samizdat

    Imagine preserving your culture over centuries of British religious persecution, famines, Anglicization – then throwing it all away in the blink of an eye just to participate in the multiculti cargo cult and get back at a few pedo priests.
     
    Being of Irish extraction myself, I used to support Irish nationalism. But this is why I no longer can ... it's pointless. The Irish are rapidly accomplishing what the British failed slowly to accomplish: the destruction of the Irish people. Sad ...

    Apparently when their numbers reach a “critical mass” in relatively passive, egalitarian first world nations, even the most “model” of minorities then start to agitate for MORE. Here we have the passive aggressive H1B dot Indians agitating for legislation to grant them green cards much faster than is the current average wait time for Indians [all due to their own making as they’ve choked the pipeline like it was some bombay sewage conduit] . They have the balls to agitate in front of the freaking white house after what they’ve done to our legal immigration system and the tech industry [gamed it completely in their favor]

  36. @Potato
    Its from the times article I linked

    Its from the times article I linked

    But this didn’t apply to Congo as a whole: “In some areas, the Congo’s infant-mortality rate is
    down to 60 per 1,000—better than Italy’s figure.”

    But this wasn’t the case overall:

    “In the beginning of the 1950s the DRC had similar levels of infant mortality (167 deaths per 1000 live births) compared to its neighbor Rwanda (161 deaths per 1000 live births), but higher than sub-Saharan Africa combined (111 deaths per 1000 live births).”

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5053205/

  37. @Serrice
    Definitely won't be cucking out. Their reaction has confirmed to me the need to end them once and for all.

    The 'white' people rhetoric doesn't really work here because we were literally 99% white up until around 2005, even now it's probably at 95%. Barely anyone has experience with non-Europeans. Most of our immigrants are either Eastern European low-wagers or Western European tech professionals - both contribute to the economy (for the most part).

    I'll be using my rather extensive network to further develop Ireland's 'new' Right. Expect interesting things over the next few months.

    I love criticism, don't worry. The more and the harsher the better.

    I’ll be using my rather extensive network to further develop Ireland’s ‘new’ Right. Expect interesting things over the next few months.

    Look up Steve Bannon, I believe he lives in the Capitol Hill neighborhood, Washington, DC.

    Always attack a traitor before an enemy. Cuckservatives are the softest of soft targets. Lay into neolib/neocon tycoons a la Ann Coulter.

    On that note, how about a sizable wealth tax for the bastards who think it’s great to replace the Irish people using mass immigration – come right out for that wealth tax in the double digits. Eight percent is a normal return in the stock market – the wealth tax should be thirteen percent per year to make it sporting. ‘Revenge for Replacing Us’.

    • Agree: Serrice
  38. @Anonymous
    Never thought even the Irish, one of the most rough and tumble people in north western europe, would get THIS cucked. To be reamed ruled by a Gay Hindu man while screeching about how much they "luv it" is as woke as it gets.

    “Never thought even the Irish, one of the most rough and tumble people in north western europe, would get THIS cucked.”

    In addition to being “one of the most rough and tumble people”, the Irish have also always been one of the DUMBEST people in Europe, too. It’s not for nothing that they were called the “niggers of Europe”.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    One of the liberal commenters used this argument:

    “A picture of unrelieved barbarism ‘hateful to God’ served to justify England’s extirpation of Ireland’s society and has been used to depress the hearts of the Irish themselves. For their birthright — they have been told — they have inherited the failings of their race, and by the verdict of the ages have been proclaimed incapable of success in their own land, or of building up there an ordered society, trade or culture, and have indeed ever proved themselves a people ready ‘to go headlong to the Devil’ if England ‘seek not speedy remedy to prevent same’. Thus their energy has been lowered and some natural pride abated. It is in the study of their history alone that Irishmen will find this just pride restored and their courage assured.” – Alice Stopford Green in The Making of Ireland and its Undoing (1908)

    How quickly we forget.
     
    , @EldnahYm
    If that's the case then Ireland's economy has been a massive over performer. I doubt most of the national IQ estimates are reliable, particularly regarding fine-grained differences.

    In any case, lower IQ seems to be positively correlated with anti-immigration feelings in Western countries. So your story is unlikely to fit either way.

  39. @Parbes
    "Never thought even the Irish, one of the most rough and tumble people in north western europe, would get THIS cucked."

    In addition to being "one of the most rough and tumble people", the Irish have also always been one of the DUMBEST people in Europe, too. It's not for nothing that they were called the "niggers of Europe".

    One of the liberal commenters used this argument:

    “A picture of unrelieved barbarism ‘hateful to God’ served to justify England’s extirpation of Ireland’s society and has been used to depress the hearts of the Irish themselves. For their birthright — they have been told — they have inherited the failings of their race, and by the verdict of the ages have been proclaimed incapable of success in their own land, or of building up there an ordered society, trade or culture, and have indeed ever proved themselves a people ready ‘to go headlong to the Devil’ if England ‘seek not speedy remedy to prevent same’. Thus their energy has been lowered and some natural pride abated. It is in the study of their history alone that Irishmen will find this just pride restored and their courage assured.” – Alice Stopford Green in The Making of Ireland and its Undoing (1908)

    How quickly we forget.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    A people who produced Commodore John Barry who commanded the Continental Navy 185 years before JFK commanded Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines, were not a bunch of dumb peasants.
  40. @Potato
    My main issue with HBD is that it just reeks of defeatism and also 'everything is fine' type of attitude. Europe and the west in general right now is ongoing major spiritual, cultural decline. Family formation is stopping. Nationalism/conservatism is dead. Church attendance/any type of serious christianity is in the total shitter. There's no sense of collective pride, ethos or any feeling that the west is in any way exceptional now. Clearly none of this is biological, because this was not the case in 1850.

    Meanwhile HBD'ers continue to masturbate over the "high IQ" and "low clannishness" of western europeans, completely ignoring the total cultural and spiritual collapse of western civilization as a whole.

    One arguement i never hear, and this is quite sad honestly, because moldbug and other nrx'ers used to write this quite a bit, is that it's not the colonization movement that ruined Africa, or their low IQs, but rather the decolonization movement. Certainly, if you take a look at the Congo in the 1950s, you get the impression that Africa would have definitely prospered had power been transfered to less insane people. https://radishmag.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/1955-05-boom-in-the-jungle.pdf. And this isn't just a one-off example. What happened in the Congo happened in pretty much every single former colony ever, except Singapore, United Arab Emirates and a few others who somehow managed to escape the wreckage.

    Nowadays the Congo of course is possibly the worst country in the world, but in the 1950s under Belgian rule it had an infant mortality lower than of Italy. Quite an achievement for a country that 50 years ago had no wheel, no agriculture, no alphabet and basically no society of any kind. Another example is Jamaica, which had the lowest crime rates in the world under British rule, and was a favourite amongst retiring british officers. Today, Jamaica has the highest crime rate in the world, and is a total failure of a country. How about that genetic hypothesis?

    It's kind of strange that the last great statesmen of the west weren't the ones that ruled their home countries, rather they were generally offloaded to some colonial backwater. Eventually though, the unstoppable wave of progress came for them too.

    Family formation is stopping. Nationalism/conservatism is dead. Church attendance/any type of serious christianity is in the total shitter.

    Exactly. It is a dead ideology.

    Consequently, there is absolutely no logical argument any more against mass Third World immigration apart from HBD.

    spandrell made this point very succinctly here: https://bloodyshovel.wordpress.com/2019/01/02/nassim-taleb-is-retarded/

    Nowadays the Congo of course is possibly the worst country in the world, but in the 1950s under Belgian rule it had an infant mortality lower than of Italy.

    Almost certainly false.

    Another example is Jamaica, which had the lowest crime rates in the world under British rule, and was a favourite amongst retiring british officers. Today, Jamaica has the highest crime rate in the world, and is a total failure of a country. How about that genetic hypothesis?

    What that essay also touches upon: Institutions. Which were maintained (while they lasted) by imported European “smart fractions” (which have a disproportionate effect on society).

    That said, Jamaica has nowhere near the world’s crime rate. It is pretty successful for a black country.

    • Replies: @Potato
    I just checked wikipedia "When Jamaica gained independence in 1962, the murder rate was 3.9 per 100,000 inhabitants, one of the lowest in the world.[4] In 2005, Jamaica had 1,674 murders for a murder rate of 58 per 100,000 people.[5] That year, Jamaica had the highest murder rate in the world.[2]".

    Okay, checking recent estimates it is now 47 per 100k people, but still very far off to the 3.9 it had in 1962, the murder rate is higher by 4x the african average. It is only eclipsed by a few latin american countries, Hondurans and such. I have no idea how this is "succesful" for a black country, With the economy being stagnant since 1990 (certainly not true for other black countries today..)

    Fact checking the Congo, i wasn't totally right. Some areas civilized by Europeans had an infant mortality rate lower than that of italy, but on a country to country comparison this wasn't the case.

    , @utu
    "Consequently, there is absolutely no logical argument any more against mass Third World immigration apart from HBD."

    The HBD BS will never gain any traction. So one may wonder why some people who claim that they are against globalization and mass people movements keep yapping about it. A secret fifth column?

    Anti-immigration argument can be built on three points: (1) Economy: quality of life, wages, (2) Cultural identity, (3) Ecology: zero population growth. These three point are palatable to both left and right.
    , @Dmitry
    Most Christians live in poor, undeveloped countries - with the more religious populations living in the poorest countries. A Christian immigration policy would reduce immigration overall, by filtering away Muslims and Hindus, but there would be still all kinds of movement from undeveloped to developed countries.

    So the answer is to end illegal immigration, and install an immigration filter based in criteria like academic achievement and relevance for special industries where local people are not capable. In this case, if differences proposed by HBD are correct, then almost all the problematic immigration (from undeveloped to developed countries) will be ended.


    Consequently, there is absolutely no logical argument any more against mass Third World immigration apart from HBD.

     

    The answer is just to install immigration filter based in criteria like skills and academic achievement that does not exist locally, and is suitable for special industries. If "HBD theory" is true, then most of the problematic immigration would be filtered away. Currently for Ireland, there are only a few thousand skilled worker visas, and the problematic part of "skilled worker" visa program is just importing too many doctors and nurses.

    There could also be added some cultural clauses, which would add more points to culturally similar immigration countries, so the filter would become very fine.

  41. @Anonymous
    What's amazing to me, as an American, is how thoroughly American (i.e. Democratic party-type neoliberal) norms and values have permeated the intellectual culture in Western Europe. I think a lot of Europeans are too close to the situation to really appreciate it--and the idea that they're being influenced by the tacky, tasteless, dumb Americans induces a bit of denial--but imo it's screamingly obvious. I mean, an Irishman using "white nationalist" as an insult against another Irishman? Uh, what?

    It's obvious too in all the rhetoric regarding abortion, gay marriage, #MeToo etc etc. It's all so soapy and melodramatic and childish. Like a lot of Americans, I always just sort of assumed Europeans were smarter than us. No longer.

    This is something I have remarked upon a lot as well. (Conversely, American millennials have also adopted European social attitudes. It’s a Great Homogenization).

    Russia is an interesting edge case. Some aspects of American culture have penetrated very deeply (Game of Thrones, burgers) but #MeToo, #BLM, all of that crap, hasn’t really made any inroads apart from a small subset of elite university students.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I think the other commenter is right that English language skills are a gateway to Americanization of national politics; this may partly explain why the high-IQ, developed, and very pro-American Japan has almost totally avoided this process. I also think historical attitudes towards the US play a role; Germany seems a little more resistant to at least some aspects of this process (e.g. gay marriage only legalized in 2017, and I've been told that #MeToo has been kind of a dud there), and I think their latent distrust of America plays a role in that. Mix widespread English fluency with historically pro-American politics and you have a recipe for disaster (I'm looking at you, Sweden).
    , @jimmy
    Just my $0.02, but I think this is correct. I don't think it's a one way transfer where Europeans have adopted American leftist attitudes as the leftward shift of American culture started in the late-90's/early-00s as younger/lefter Americans (now middle aged) often had an inferiority complex wrt to Europeans as they saw US culture as being very non-cosmopolitan, jingoistic, reactive, etc.

    Interestingly, I think that American leftists have moved to the left of European leftists, with European leftists now moving beyond the traditional class focus towards the more identitarian focus of the current American left.
  42. @silviosilver
    "Striking a blow for the white race" may not be the most appropriate way of framing Irish nationalism (I've always found that "white pride" thing extremely clownish), but it surely makes sense to reject assertions (even merely implied ones) that the Irish deserve to be penalized for being white - which they are, or will be, if they accept the "black problems caused by white racism" narrative. I don't see how that can be done without being specific about it. I can accept that in an overwhelmingly white society, people don't "get" race, and think you're just being mean if you bring it up, but you don't need to look far to find examples of where silence gets you (U.S.-style negrofuxxation).

    I’ve found the best way to appeal to racialist tendencies in people is not to advocate for whites but rather to remind my fellow Irishmen that our history is basically a thousand years of ethnic conflict.

    • Replies: @silviosilver

    I’ve found the best way to appeal to racialist tendencies in people is not to advocate for whites but rather to remind my fellow Irishmen that our history is basically a thousand years of ethnic conflict.
     
    Implicit racial appeals are a double-edged sword. On the one hand they do indeed allow you, for a time, to dodge accusations of racism while making headway against the forces of leftardism. On the other hand, they leave your people woefully unprepared to make an actual racial move - a move without which race-replacement will move closer to completion.

    Nationalists will inevitably be accused of racism. That's a given. When they're accused of racism, what is their response? They can dismiss the accusation or turn it back on their accuser - "Yeah, whatever, everything is 'racism' to you people", or "Yeah, yeah, everything looks like 'racism' when you're anti-white" - or they can give a 'crypto-cuck' response like "I'm not a racist, I'm a nationalist.

    I call the latter a crypto-cuck response because, in this day and age, it sounds pretty tough and self-assertive to call yourself a nationalist. "I'm a nationalist, I don't take any shit." It's manly stuff.

    The thing is, while nationalists are busy being tough nationalists, race-replacement continues apace. People intermingle, they meet, they procreate, they become accustomed to seeing various sorts of faces, and they come to accept it as the natural order of things. Such people bring to nationalism a thousand racial exceptions. "Yes, most of those negroids are scum, but this best friend of mine, he's great, we can't exclude him." Multiply that sentiment by a million people, all passionately defending their favorite A1 negroid, and the futility of non-racially explicit nationalism becomes clear.

    I don't want to sound too cynical. Perhaps there is no other way than to go through implicitly racial (but officially non-racial) nationalism. To build a nationalist foundation, and then from that foundation proceed to move to more explicit racial appeals. I just don't know. But I don't think I am imagining things when I claim the pressure to be anti-racist is so enormous that plenty of nationalists will succumb to it and make racial exceptions left and right for individuals they believe are made of the right cultural stuff.
  43. @Annatar
    Ireland is finished, all too often it seems these minor nations which are so obsessed with getting freedom from a bigger nation end up being the most cucked, Ireland, Scotland, Catalonia are all examples, I have no doubt if Scotland and Catalonia were nations they would be far more globalist then the countries that they are currently part of are.

    The case of Ireland in particular shows the complete failure of mainstream conservatism, including a mainline religious branch such as Catholicism to put up any defence against the globalist ideology, globalist ideology was developed in an environment where mainstream conservatism was the main enemy and hence is a direct counter to it. Only nationalist or reactionary politics has any chance at defeating globalism in the western context in my opinion. Unfortunately, such politics are too extreme for many of the cuckservatives.

    Also with regards to Ireland, all the things that made it "exceptional" are gone, high religiosity, higher fertility, it looks like Irish TFR which as recently as 2009 was 2.1 dropped below 1.8 last year for the first time in its history, wouldn't surprise me if it dropped all the way down to 1.5 in the coming decade. At least Ireland will probably stay above Scotland which looks like it had fertility drop to a new record low of 1.44 last year.

    I wouldn’t be so sure, certainly if I thought Ireland was finished I wouldn’t be trying to build a career out of fixing it.

    Irish people still rank quite high on a lot of ‘basedness’ indicators. Everything from idealised TFR to ethnic awareness, appreciation of native culture, etc.

    To compress a hundred years of culture war into one paragraph, this massive liberal burst in the last 5-10 years is just a reaction to the quite literally instant disintegration of Catholic moral authority (which is positive, the church was a major force in our decline). It just outright died shortly after the turn of the millennium and when coupled with the economic boom, left/liberalism rode in utterly unopposed.

    If the rest of the world’s ideological pendulum has been slowly swinging towards globohomo for 60 years or so, Ireland’s has only truly been doing it for 20. The return will be quicker than you expect. Plus conflict in the North could easily spring up again (paramilitaries have started recruitment drives for first time since ’98) and that’ll get people off their ass for sure.

    • Replies: @Annatar
    I hope you are right, the only way I see Ireland getting back on the right track is if the right in Ireland moves away from a cultural kind of conservatism that seems to have no appeal anymore to the masses towards a kind of conservatism based on Irish identity and not principles of universalism.
    , @Toronto Russian

    To compress a hundred years of culture war into one paragraph, this massive liberal burst in the last 5-10 years is just a reaction to the quite literally instant disintegration of Catholic moral authority (which is positive, the church was a major force in our decline). It just outright died shortly after the turn of the millennium and when coupled with the economic boom, left/liberalism rode in utterly unopposed.
     
    Am I right that Irish Catholicism lacks attractive artistic output? I know great cathedrals and beautiful organ music, but not by Irish architects or composers. The popular Irish stuff (dance, ornament, folklore) seems to be unrelated to Catholicism aside from Celtic crosses. The most popular Catholic-inspired book of the 20th century, Lord of the Rings, was written by an English convert (technically, Tolkien's mother converted when he was a child) unrelated to Ireland. The image of the Irish Church in culture is about stern nuns torturing young girls for being "sinners":

    https://youtu.be/4dqMxvJLmew

    If it's real situation and not just my lack of knowledge (there may be the Irish Bernini and Bach who aren't promoted to outsiders), I can understand why people who weren't forced into religiosity since childhood are so completely abandoning it.
  44. @Serrice
    I wouldn't be so sure, certainly if I thought Ireland was finished I wouldn't be trying to build a career out of fixing it.

    Irish people still rank quite high on a lot of 'basedness' indicators. Everything from idealised TFR to ethnic awareness, appreciation of native culture, etc.

    To compress a hundred years of culture war into one paragraph, this massive liberal burst in the last 5-10 years is just a reaction to the quite literally instant disintegration of Catholic moral authority (which is positive, the church was a major force in our decline). It just outright died shortly after the turn of the millennium and when coupled with the economic boom, left/liberalism rode in utterly unopposed.

    If the rest of the world's ideological pendulum has been slowly swinging towards globohomo for 60 years or so, Ireland's has only truly been doing it for 20. The return will be quicker than you expect. Plus conflict in the North could easily spring up again (paramilitaries have started recruitment drives for first time since '98) and that'll get people off their ass for sure.

    I hope you are right, the only way I see Ireland getting back on the right track is if the right in Ireland moves away from a cultural kind of conservatism that seems to have no appeal anymore to the masses towards a kind of conservatism based on Irish identity and not principles of universalism.

  45. @Anatoly Karlin

    Family formation is stopping. Nationalism/conservatism is dead. Church attendance/any type of serious christianity is in the total shitter.
     
    Exactly. It is a dead ideology.

    Consequently, there is absolutely no logical argument any more against mass Third World immigration apart from HBD.

    spandrell made this point very succinctly here: https://bloodyshovel.wordpress.com/2019/01/02/nassim-taleb-is-retarded/

    Nowadays the Congo of course is possibly the worst country in the world, but in the 1950s under Belgian rule it had an infant mortality lower than of Italy.
     
    Almost certainly false.

    Another example is Jamaica, which had the lowest crime rates in the world under British rule, and was a favourite amongst retiring british officers. Today, Jamaica has the highest crime rate in the world, and is a total failure of a country. How about that genetic hypothesis?
     
    What that essay also touches upon: Institutions. Which were maintained (while they lasted) by imported European "smart fractions" (which have a disproportionate effect on society).

    That said, Jamaica has nowhere near the world's crime rate. It is pretty successful for a black country.

    I just checked wikipedia “When Jamaica gained independence in 1962, the murder rate was 3.9 per 100,000 inhabitants, one of the lowest in the world.[4] In 2005, Jamaica had 1,674 murders for a murder rate of 58 per 100,000 people.[5] That year, Jamaica had the highest murder rate in the world.[2]”.

    Okay, checking recent estimates it is now 47 per 100k people, but still very far off to the 3.9 it had in 1962, the murder rate is higher by 4x the african average. It is only eclipsed by a few latin american countries, Hondurans and such. I have no idea how this is “succesful” for a black country, With the economy being stagnant since 1990 (certainly not true for other black countries today..)

    Fact checking the Congo, i wasn’t totally right. Some areas civilized by Europeans had an infant mortality rate lower than that of italy, but on a country to country comparison this wasn’t the case.

  46. @Anonymous
    What's amazing to me, as an American, is how thoroughly American (i.e. Democratic party-type neoliberal) norms and values have permeated the intellectual culture in Western Europe. I think a lot of Europeans are too close to the situation to really appreciate it--and the idea that they're being influenced by the tacky, tasteless, dumb Americans induces a bit of denial--but imo it's screamingly obvious. I mean, an Irishman using "white nationalist" as an insult against another Irishman? Uh, what?

    It's obvious too in all the rhetoric regarding abortion, gay marriage, #MeToo etc etc. It's all so soapy and melodramatic and childish. Like a lot of Americans, I always just sort of assumed Europeans were smarter than us. No longer.

    Nowadays, the English language is a superhighway into pozz. It is really remarkable, if you know something about Irish culture. It is possibly the most nationalistic in all of Europe. There are dozens and dozens of nationalistic songs. Some are old, like “Mo Ghile Mear.” Some are newer, like the Wolfetones’ “Men Behind the Wire”, which, at least briefly, in 1972 reached #1 in the Irish charts.

    I’m not sure Ireland would be protected if they still spoke Irish as their primary language. They’d have to not speak English, which would be pretty hard to manage. But I think this really validates the mimetic view of leftist politics.

  47. @Anonymous
    Never thought even the Irish, one of the most rough and tumble people in north western europe, would get THIS cucked. To be reamed ruled by a Gay Hindu man while screeching about how much they "luv it" is as woke as it gets.

    The gay hindu didn’t win an election yet, it looks like we might have an election sometime after Brexit, I don’t expect the gay hindu to win, that said the other options are little better

  48. @Serrice
    Definitely won't be cucking out. Their reaction has confirmed to me the need to end them once and for all.

    The 'white' people rhetoric doesn't really work here because we were literally 99% white up until around 2005, even now it's probably at 95%. Barely anyone has experience with non-Europeans. Most of our immigrants are either Eastern European low-wagers or Western European tech professionals - both contribute to the economy (for the most part).

    I'll be using my rather extensive network to further develop Ireland's 'new' Right. Expect interesting things over the next few months.

    I love criticism, don't worry. The more and the harsher the better.

    I love criticism, don’t worry. The more and the harsher the better.

    That’s nice.

    The theory of a black population’s innate inability of holding its act together is refuted by Namibia. Your Twitter opponents could just post videos from there and be much more convincing than with what they do now.

    This clip is 15 minutes of driving by pristine graffiti-free walls and roadsides not “adorned” by scattered garbage*. There are signs of poverty like makeshift market stalls, but you can see civilized-looking bridges over ditches and clean new cars. Stats say Namibia is an upper middle income country, and it’s winning against the AIDS epidemic. How would an HBDist explain the difference from the disfunctional life of their genetic cousins in South Africa? Too bad this country is usually forgotten, being tiny (2.6 million) and not making news.

    *In contrast to this, Despacito music video shows garbage heaps on the shore of Puerto Rico (that has a racially mixed population) – they couldn’t even clean it up for the filming or find a clean spot!

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    I think it was a German colony before WW1, for whatever that's worth.
    , @Dmitry
    Yes, Zimbabwe is a catastrophe with a dictator and hyperinflation - but its cities look still cleaner and with less rubbish in streets than Omsk.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAuhzk7CkU8


    -

    But I'm not sure this argument is relevant.

    Republic of Ireland is economically very successful today. Just graduated girls there with Msc in "Digital Media Design" , can get jobs with multiple times higher salary than many people with masters' degree in Computer Science can get in Russia.

    Therefore, Ireland has a position where they can be very selective about immigrants, filtering only for the best, if they would choose to instrumentalize this position.

    If they only accepted people with Phd from Oxford University, Harvard and MIT, they will still receive a lot of immigrants.

    Let's say Anatoly Karlin is Minister of Immigration. He would just propose some "IQ test at 140" for entry - and if his theory of national differences is correct, it would filter vast majority of immigrants.

    However, ROI already has skilled worker visa program for special industries (which also includes medical doctors), which has this same quality as such a test, already. But they also allow anyone from EU, and various kinds of random immigrants, as well as many doctors and nurses (which are from India).

    ROI needs to focus more on universalizing the kind of conditions they use now for skilled worker visa for special industries, stop doctors and nurses importation from India (it's more responsible to training local people for this kind of job) and exclude other forms of immigration.

    The difficult thing would be the EU. With EU, it requires free movement of people from any other EU country. For ROI to leave EU, while still having open access to EU market and investment (which is the source of their economic success), would be the most unlikely and difficult to overcome barrier. Only Norway and Switzerland could achieve avoiding being in EU, while having all open access to EU market, and this was because they never joined.

    , @AquariusAnon
    Keep in mind around 6% of Namibians (as in natives, citizens) are white. Around 2/3 of them Afrikaners and 1/3 of them leftover Germans. Namibia isn't exactly a black nation.

    While that neighborhood is definitely a black township, having a 6% white minority that you are on decent terms with (unlike the toxic, hysterical racial hostilities in South Africa), can do wonders for the community.
  49. @Anatoly Karlin

    Family formation is stopping. Nationalism/conservatism is dead. Church attendance/any type of serious christianity is in the total shitter.
     
    Exactly. It is a dead ideology.

    Consequently, there is absolutely no logical argument any more against mass Third World immigration apart from HBD.

    spandrell made this point very succinctly here: https://bloodyshovel.wordpress.com/2019/01/02/nassim-taleb-is-retarded/

    Nowadays the Congo of course is possibly the worst country in the world, but in the 1950s under Belgian rule it had an infant mortality lower than of Italy.
     
    Almost certainly false.

    Another example is Jamaica, which had the lowest crime rates in the world under British rule, and was a favourite amongst retiring british officers. Today, Jamaica has the highest crime rate in the world, and is a total failure of a country. How about that genetic hypothesis?
     
    What that essay also touches upon: Institutions. Which were maintained (while they lasted) by imported European "smart fractions" (which have a disproportionate effect on society).

    That said, Jamaica has nowhere near the world's crime rate. It is pretty successful for a black country.

    “Consequently, there is absolutely no logical argument any more against mass Third World immigration apart from HBD.”

    The HBD BS will never gain any traction. So one may wonder why some people who claim that they are against globalization and mass people movements keep yapping about it. A secret fifth column?

    Anti-immigration argument can be built on three points: (1) Economy: quality of life, wages, (2) Cultural identity, (3) Ecology: zero population growth. These three point are palatable to both left and right.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    (1) Economy: quality of life, wages,
     
    Immigrants predominantly go to the most economically successful countries, creating an impenetrable confounding effect.

    The Okuspearchuckers would say that it is precisely those immigrants that grant them their dynamism in the first place.

    No HBD, you have no choice but to get down and suck his cock.

    (2) Cultural identity,
     
    Yeah, it's atrocious how Kingdom Come: Deliverance didn't have any black people. Those hateful Czechs.

    / translation - cultural identity is malleable. And at this point it has very little relation to what you want it to be.

    (3) Ecology: zero population growth
     
    Here you go:

    http://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/time-childfree.jpg

    So one may wonder why some people who claim that they are against globalization and mass people movements keep yapping about it. A secret fifth column?
     
    Yes, utu, so far as it concerns you in particular, I am a fifth columnist. At least people like Steven Pinker would make for more interesting conversation partners as Europe turns into Africa.
    , @reiner Tor

    Anti-immigration argument can be built on three points: (1) Economy: quality of life, wages, (2) Cultural identity, (3) Ecology: zero population growth. These three point are palatable to both left and right.
     
    This has been done. All three of them, even in combination. E.g. the Swiss People’s Party has been using all three together. They even added democracy when fighting the EU: they explained that unlike in other European countries where the EU bureaucracy just replaced the national bureaucracy and EU politicians the national politicians, in the case of Switzerland the plebiscites (and so the direct democratic power of the people) would be replaced by the Brussels bureaucrats. They had some limited success, but Switzerland continues to be overrun by immigrants.

    So basically what you advocate for is a policy of failure.
  50. @utu
    "Consequently, there is absolutely no logical argument any more against mass Third World immigration apart from HBD."

    The HBD BS will never gain any traction. So one may wonder why some people who claim that they are against globalization and mass people movements keep yapping about it. A secret fifth column?

    Anti-immigration argument can be built on three points: (1) Economy: quality of life, wages, (2) Cultural identity, (3) Ecology: zero population growth. These three point are palatable to both left and right.

    (1) Economy: quality of life, wages,

    Immigrants predominantly go to the most economically successful countries, creating an impenetrable confounding effect.

    The Okuspearchuckers would say that it is precisely those immigrants that grant them their dynamism in the first place.

    No HBD, you have no choice but to get down and suck his cock.

    (2) Cultural identity,

    Yeah, it’s atrocious how Kingdom Come: Deliverance didn’t have any black people. Those hateful Czechs.

    / translation – cultural identity is malleable. And at this point it has very little relation to what you want it to be.

    (3) Ecology: zero population growth

    Here you go:

    So one may wonder why some people who claim that they are against globalization and mass people movements keep yapping about it. A secret fifth column?

    Yes, utu, so far as it concerns you in particular, I am a fifth columnist. At least people like Steven Pinker would make for more interesting conversation partners as Europe turns into Africa.

    • Replies: @utu
    The HBD strategy will not gain any traction. It is a non starter. Linking HBD to nationalism means a suicide for nationalism. Politics is the art of the possible. You do not order your troops to charge the entrenched media machine gun nests up the hill. It would be a massacre and the end of nationalism. You do not do it particular when you have not that many troops. How many incels you have? You are not in Zhukov's position who could afford wasting many lives. So stop dreaming of Zhukov and better listen to Bismarck. The strategy must in the first place be attractive to the new recruits who only can come form the side to the left of your position. And they will come from the traditional left if you include the anti-neoliberal program. The traditional left plus the far right against the middle = populism.

    The HBD unrealistic strategy that has a zero chance for success will only bring the Okuspearchuckers sooner lusting for blood afer being energized by your HBD ideology. It will take lots of leg spreading by white women to pacify them and even some of your incel soldiers will be liberated from their incelhoods.

    The problem posed by the Okuspearchuckers can be solved very simply. Only the vectors must be reversed so the policies we advocate are palatable to our allies on the left. We the nationalists practice compassionate nationalism not only for us but for everybody on the planet. We do not want to deplete homelands of the Okuspearchuckers from their most dynamic, risk taking and smartest individuals and rather we want to see them contributing to the development of their countries. We the compassionate nationalist do not continue the shameful practice of brain draining of the less developed countries which gave us wealth and the white privilege . We the compassionate nationalists do not approve of self-hating nationalists who abandon their countries instead of staying there helping to develop them. For these reasons the Okuspearchuckers will not be let in to our countries.

    Furthermore, we the compassionate nationalists believe that Okuspearchuckers can develop their countries and possibly in the future with some help from more developed countries which will be gladly provided by us, partly to compensate the unjust white privilege, the countries of the Okuspearchuckers will reach our level. To prove that we mean it and that we are saying it in a good faith we will round up and place in the rehab centers all propagandists professing that this is impossible on the account of hateful IQ and HBD false theories. The proscriptions list are being prepared as we speak. We will be getting to the letter K soon.

    I am sure that "Steven Pinker would make for more interesting conversation partner" but he does not even know you. In the meantime count your blessings and be grateful I am willing to talk to you.

  51. @Serrice
    I wouldn't be so sure, certainly if I thought Ireland was finished I wouldn't be trying to build a career out of fixing it.

    Irish people still rank quite high on a lot of 'basedness' indicators. Everything from idealised TFR to ethnic awareness, appreciation of native culture, etc.

    To compress a hundred years of culture war into one paragraph, this massive liberal burst in the last 5-10 years is just a reaction to the quite literally instant disintegration of Catholic moral authority (which is positive, the church was a major force in our decline). It just outright died shortly after the turn of the millennium and when coupled with the economic boom, left/liberalism rode in utterly unopposed.

    If the rest of the world's ideological pendulum has been slowly swinging towards globohomo for 60 years or so, Ireland's has only truly been doing it for 20. The return will be quicker than you expect. Plus conflict in the North could easily spring up again (paramilitaries have started recruitment drives for first time since '98) and that'll get people off their ass for sure.

    To compress a hundred years of culture war into one paragraph, this massive liberal burst in the last 5-10 years is just a reaction to the quite literally instant disintegration of Catholic moral authority (which is positive, the church was a major force in our decline). It just outright died shortly after the turn of the millennium and when coupled with the economic boom, left/liberalism rode in utterly unopposed.

    Am I right that Irish Catholicism lacks attractive artistic output? I know great cathedrals and beautiful organ music, but not by Irish architects or composers. The popular Irish stuff (dance, ornament, folklore) seems to be unrelated to Catholicism aside from Celtic crosses. The most popular Catholic-inspired book of the 20th century, Lord of the Rings, was written by an English convert (technically, Tolkien’s mother converted when he was a child) unrelated to Ireland. The image of the Irish Church in culture is about stern nuns torturing young girls for being “sinners”:

    If it’s real situation and not just my lack of knowledge (there may be the Irish Bernini and Bach who aren’t promoted to outsiders), I can understand why people who weren’t forced into religiosity since childhood are so completely abandoning it.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    Some Irish-American architects have designed some very good Catholic churches in Northeastern and Midwestern urban centers.
  52. @Hyperborean
    One of the liberal commenters used this argument:

    “A picture of unrelieved barbarism ‘hateful to God’ served to justify England’s extirpation of Ireland’s society and has been used to depress the hearts of the Irish themselves. For their birthright — they have been told — they have inherited the failings of their race, and by the verdict of the ages have been proclaimed incapable of success in their own land, or of building up there an ordered society, trade or culture, and have indeed ever proved themselves a people ready ‘to go headlong to the Devil’ if England ‘seek not speedy remedy to prevent same’. Thus their energy has been lowered and some natural pride abated. It is in the study of their history alone that Irishmen will find this just pride restored and their courage assured.” – Alice Stopford Green in The Making of Ireland and its Undoing (1908)

    How quickly we forget.
     

    A people who produced Commodore John Barry who commanded the Continental Navy 185 years before JFK commanded Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines, were not a bunch of dumb peasants.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    A people who produced Commodore John Barry who commanded the Continental Navy 185 years before JFK commanded Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines, were not a bunch of dumb peasants.
     
    I don't think Irish are dumb, just remarking on the irony that "Parbes" and the liberal commenter's reply are similar.
  53. @Toronto Russian

    I love criticism, don’t worry. The more and the harsher the better.
     
    That's nice.

    The theory of a black population's innate inability of holding its act together is refuted by Namibia. Your Twitter opponents could just post videos from there and be much more convincing than with what they do now.

    https://youtu.be/8aYK2PfKFWM

    This clip is 15 minutes of driving by pristine graffiti-free walls and roadsides not "adorned" by scattered garbage*. There are signs of poverty like makeshift market stalls, but you can see civilized-looking bridges over ditches and clean new cars. Stats say Namibia is an upper middle income country, and it's winning against the AIDS epidemic. How would an HBDist explain the difference from the disfunctional life of their genetic cousins in South Africa? Too bad this country is usually forgotten, being tiny (2.6 million) and not making news.

    *In contrast to this, Despacito music video shows garbage heaps on the shore of Puerto Rico (that has a racially mixed population) - they couldn't even clean it up for the filming or find a clean spot!

    I think it was a German colony before WW1, for whatever that’s worth.

    • Replies: @for-the-record
    I think it was a German colony before WW1, for whatever that’s worth.

    On the other hand, so were Rwanda, Burundi, Tanzania, Cameroon and Togo.

    In the 1980s I worked a lot in Africa (Rwanda, Burundi, Zaire, Gambia, Ghana) and had severe "culture shock" when I visited Windhoek (Namibia's capital) in the early 1990s.
    , @Mitleser
    I think it is more relevant that afterwards it was run by South Africa until 1990.
    , @Menschmaschine
    There are still Germans living there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Namibians
  54. @Toronto Russian

    To compress a hundred years of culture war into one paragraph, this massive liberal burst in the last 5-10 years is just a reaction to the quite literally instant disintegration of Catholic moral authority (which is positive, the church was a major force in our decline). It just outright died shortly after the turn of the millennium and when coupled with the economic boom, left/liberalism rode in utterly unopposed.
     
    Am I right that Irish Catholicism lacks attractive artistic output? I know great cathedrals and beautiful organ music, but not by Irish architects or composers. The popular Irish stuff (dance, ornament, folklore) seems to be unrelated to Catholicism aside from Celtic crosses. The most popular Catholic-inspired book of the 20th century, Lord of the Rings, was written by an English convert (technically, Tolkien's mother converted when he was a child) unrelated to Ireland. The image of the Irish Church in culture is about stern nuns torturing young girls for being "sinners":

    https://youtu.be/4dqMxvJLmew

    If it's real situation and not just my lack of knowledge (there may be the Irish Bernini and Bach who aren't promoted to outsiders), I can understand why people who weren't forced into religiosity since childhood are so completely abandoning it.

    Some Irish-American architects have designed some very good Catholic churches in Northeastern and Midwestern urban centers.

  55. @anonymous
    Whatever happened to the nationalistic fire that was in Irish people until recently? What happened to the IRA? Was it always controlled opposition? Did the real Irish nationalism die with people like Michael Collins in 1922? Has everything "nationalistic" since that time been phony? I think I know the answer. "Irish nationalism" was always tied up with strong religious beliefs, whether Catholic or Protestant, now that the people have abandoned religion en masse or taken up an extremely watered down version of it, we have that void being taken up with forms of humanism. A well-off population that doesn't have a strong belief system is easy prey to fast-talking celebrities and university professors that push the idea of diversity and multiculturalism. Why should we Irish who have a boring and bland culture refuse to bring into our country black and brown people who have so much to offer? Everything about them is cool and they've suffered so much because of colonialism. What's not to love about them? Multiculturalism and diversity are sold as being cool and nationalism is something that is extremely uncool. As we know it hasn't always been this way, back in 1933, Adolf was the coolest thing going. Nationalism isn't doing a very good job selling itself lately, in Ireland especially. Perhaps the Irish nation's lack of experience with non-whites historically and in the present day makes them so naive. Perhaps when Dublin has no-go zones like Stockholm and Malmo the Irish will begin to wake up.

    Irish nationalism has always been about anti-British feelings, it’s never been about being pro-Irish. When Irish fury can’t be directed towards blaming all of their problems on the U.K., they’re completely defenseless.

    To say the same about Irish Catholicism would be an enormous exaggeration, but there’s even a whiff of the tendency there. Certainly historically.

  56. @Hibernian
    I think we Hibernians in America (the rank and file, not people like the Kennedys) are more based than those in Ireland.

    The Kennedy’s would have never sniffed the Presidency without the support of the Irish Catholic rank and file. Don’t kid yourself.

    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    True, but he's still probably right - more based than the Irish in Ireland is a relative statement, after all. The Irish in America may have doomed themselves by voting Democrat for generations, BUT they did give us the likes of the South Boston busing riots, and the Hays Production Code, and that's more than I can say for the Irish in Ireland.
  57. @Parbes
    "Never thought even the Irish, one of the most rough and tumble people in north western europe, would get THIS cucked."

    In addition to being "one of the most rough and tumble people", the Irish have also always been one of the DUMBEST people in Europe, too. It's not for nothing that they were called the "niggers of Europe".

    If that’s the case then Ireland’s economy has been a massive over performer. I doubt most of the national IQ estimates are reliable, particularly regarding fine-grained differences.

    In any case, lower IQ seems to be positively correlated with anti-immigration feelings in Western countries. So your story is unlikely to fit either way.

    • Replies: @Parbes
    "In any case, lower IQ seems to be positively correlated with anti-immigration feelings in Western countries"
    Going from being a "rough-and-tumble", staunchly Roman Catholic/Anglo-Celtic-European society in terms of cultural mindset and outlook, to being open borders/immigration/multiculturalism/"diversity"/globalism cucks within less than two decades, is pretty stupid at the national level, if you ask me. Lower IQ - at the national level just as at the individual one - is correlated with not being able to independently think or decide for oneself too well in complex matters; and following the prescriptions of "superiors" in sheeplike manner. In the case of today's Ireland, that would translate as rolling over and mindlessly deferring to the socioeconomic policies and attitudes prescribed for EVERY COUNTRY of the Western block (open borders, immigration, multiculturalism, etc.) by the "big brothers" - i.e., the current globalist ruling elites of the Anglosphere and EU - even to the point of radically altering one's own society and racial-religious demography virtually overnight for no sensible reason.

    "So your story is unlikely to fit either way"
    It's not "my story" - it is an actual FACT that the Irish have long been regarded, rightly or wrongly, as being one of those with the lowest average IQ among the historic European nations, and dubbed the "niggers of Europe". (Needless to say, this does NOT mean that all Irishpeople are dumb, that there are/have been no smart and highly talented Irish individuals, etc., etc.)

    "If that’s the case then Ireland’s economy has been a massive over performer"
    My understanding is that the relative overperformance of the "Irish Tiger" over the last two decades was due to the aforementioned neoliberal globalist elites deciding to turn conveniently-located Ireland into a financial, tax, and services outsourcing haven, not to any great progress by the native Irish in industry, technology, production etc. - and even that has turned down in the past few years. Isn't that so?

    Judging from the tone of your reply, you sound to me like either a triggered rah rah Irish patriot, or a neoliberal parrot repeating the worn tropes. Am I wrong?
  58. I think there is merit in discussing how a country known for “the Troubles” and a very active IRA can roll over for the multiculti 40 years later. I don’t think anyone could have predicted this outcome 40 years ago.

    Perhaps Eldnah Ym is correct in that Irish nationalism was never anything more than anti-English sentiment and, once, with the troubles over, essentially evaporated due to a lack of psychological foundation in Irish identity itself. Another plausible explanation is, with increased standard of living and the mod-cons that accompany it, the birth rate significantly declined and, as a result, there are simply not enough young people to care about things like Irish nationalism. This is the dynamic that essentially killed Quebec nationalism. There are simply not enough young people to care anymore. That’s why there have never been a second referendum for Quebec independence. If this dynamic is true and replicable, it is easy to predict that there will never be another referendum for Scottish independence as well.

    Since the Irish have been more victim than oppressor in the historical sense and never had any colonies (indeed they were a colony themselves), there is no reason for them to feel the collective liberal “white” guilt that the English and Continental Europeans feel today.

    • Replies: @silviosilver

    That’s why there have never been a second referendum for Quebec independence.
     
    Yes there was, in 1995. The first was in 1980. It does indeed seem unlikely that there will ever be a third. Then again, "never say never" and all that.
    , @martin2
    The Irish emigrated to all parts of the British Empire. For people that supposedly hate the British they sure like following us about!
  59. @Hibernian
    I think it was a German colony before WW1, for whatever that's worth.

    I think it was a German colony before WW1, for whatever that’s worth.

    On the other hand, so were Rwanda, Burundi, Tanzania, Cameroon and Togo.

    In the 1980s I worked a lot in Africa (Rwanda, Burundi, Zaire, Gambia, Ghana) and had severe “culture shock” when I visited Windhoek (Namibia’s capital) in the early 1990s.

    • Replies: @fnn
    But, unlike the other colonies, what is now Namibia actually had a lot of German settlers.
  60. @Toronto Russian

    I love criticism, don’t worry. The more and the harsher the better.
     
    That's nice.

    The theory of a black population's innate inability of holding its act together is refuted by Namibia. Your Twitter opponents could just post videos from there and be much more convincing than with what they do now.

    https://youtu.be/8aYK2PfKFWM

    This clip is 15 minutes of driving by pristine graffiti-free walls and roadsides not "adorned" by scattered garbage*. There are signs of poverty like makeshift market stalls, but you can see civilized-looking bridges over ditches and clean new cars. Stats say Namibia is an upper middle income country, and it's winning against the AIDS epidemic. How would an HBDist explain the difference from the disfunctional life of their genetic cousins in South Africa? Too bad this country is usually forgotten, being tiny (2.6 million) and not making news.

    *In contrast to this, Despacito music video shows garbage heaps on the shore of Puerto Rico (that has a racially mixed population) - they couldn't even clean it up for the filming or find a clean spot!

    Yes, Zimbabwe is a catastrophe with a dictator and hyperinflation – but its cities look still cleaner and with less rubbish in streets than Omsk.

    But I’m not sure this argument is relevant.

    Republic of Ireland is economically very successful today. Just graduated girls there with Msc in “Digital Media Design” , can get jobs with multiple times higher salary than many people with masters’ degree in Computer Science can get in Russia.

    Therefore, Ireland has a position where they can be very selective about immigrants, filtering only for the best, if they would choose to instrumentalize this position.

    If they only accepted people with Phd from Oxford University, Harvard and MIT, they will still receive a lot of immigrants.

    Let’s say Anatoly Karlin is Minister of Immigration. He would just propose some “IQ test at 140” for entry – and if his theory of national differences is correct, it would filter vast majority of immigrants.

    However, ROI already has skilled worker visa program for special industries (which also includes medical doctors), which has this same quality as such a test, already. But they also allow anyone from EU, and various kinds of random immigrants, as well as many doctors and nurses (which are from India).

    ROI needs to focus more on universalizing the kind of conditions they use now for skilled worker visa for special industries, stop doctors and nurses importation from India (it’s more responsible to training local people for this kind of job) and exclude other forms of immigration.

    The difficult thing would be the EU. With EU, it requires free movement of people from any other EU country. For ROI to leave EU, while still having open access to EU market and investment (which is the source of their economic success), would be the most unlikely and difficult to overcome barrier. Only Norway and Switzerland could achieve avoiding being in EU, while having all open access to EU market, and this was because they never joined.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Johannesburg of South Africa in 1974 - parts of it appear as advanced as any American city.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzteAu-8NbU

  61. @Anatoly Karlin

    Family formation is stopping. Nationalism/conservatism is dead. Church attendance/any type of serious christianity is in the total shitter.
     
    Exactly. It is a dead ideology.

    Consequently, there is absolutely no logical argument any more against mass Third World immigration apart from HBD.

    spandrell made this point very succinctly here: https://bloodyshovel.wordpress.com/2019/01/02/nassim-taleb-is-retarded/

    Nowadays the Congo of course is possibly the worst country in the world, but in the 1950s under Belgian rule it had an infant mortality lower than of Italy.
     
    Almost certainly false.

    Another example is Jamaica, which had the lowest crime rates in the world under British rule, and was a favourite amongst retiring british officers. Today, Jamaica has the highest crime rate in the world, and is a total failure of a country. How about that genetic hypothesis?
     
    What that essay also touches upon: Institutions. Which were maintained (while they lasted) by imported European "smart fractions" (which have a disproportionate effect on society).

    That said, Jamaica has nowhere near the world's crime rate. It is pretty successful for a black country.

    Most Christians live in poor, undeveloped countries – with the more religious populations living in the poorest countries. A Christian immigration policy would reduce immigration overall, by filtering away Muslims and Hindus, but there would be still all kinds of movement from undeveloped to developed countries.

    So the answer is to end illegal immigration, and install an immigration filter based in criteria like academic achievement and relevance for special industries where local people are not capable. In this case, if differences proposed by HBD are correct, then almost all the problematic immigration (from undeveloped to developed countries) will be ended.

    Consequently, there is absolutely no logical argument any more against mass Third World immigration apart from HBD.

    The answer is just to install immigration filter based in criteria like skills and academic achievement that does not exist locally, and is suitable for special industries. If “HBD theory” is true, then most of the problematic immigration would be filtered away. Currently for Ireland, there are only a few thousand skilled worker visas, and the problematic part of “skilled worker” visa program is just importing too many doctors and nurses.

    There could also be added some cultural clauses, which would add more points to culturally similar immigration countries, so the filter would become very fine.

  62. @Dmitry
    Yes, Zimbabwe is a catastrophe with a dictator and hyperinflation - but its cities look still cleaner and with less rubbish in streets than Omsk.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAuhzk7CkU8


    -

    But I'm not sure this argument is relevant.

    Republic of Ireland is economically very successful today. Just graduated girls there with Msc in "Digital Media Design" , can get jobs with multiple times higher salary than many people with masters' degree in Computer Science can get in Russia.

    Therefore, Ireland has a position where they can be very selective about immigrants, filtering only for the best, if they would choose to instrumentalize this position.

    If they only accepted people with Phd from Oxford University, Harvard and MIT, they will still receive a lot of immigrants.

    Let's say Anatoly Karlin is Minister of Immigration. He would just propose some "IQ test at 140" for entry - and if his theory of national differences is correct, it would filter vast majority of immigrants.

    However, ROI already has skilled worker visa program for special industries (which also includes medical doctors), which has this same quality as such a test, already. But they also allow anyone from EU, and various kinds of random immigrants, as well as many doctors and nurses (which are from India).

    ROI needs to focus more on universalizing the kind of conditions they use now for skilled worker visa for special industries, stop doctors and nurses importation from India (it's more responsible to training local people for this kind of job) and exclude other forms of immigration.

    The difficult thing would be the EU. With EU, it requires free movement of people from any other EU country. For ROI to leave EU, while still having open access to EU market and investment (which is the source of their economic success), would be the most unlikely and difficult to overcome barrier. Only Norway and Switzerland could achieve avoiding being in EU, while having all open access to EU market, and this was because they never joined.

    Johannesburg of South Africa in 1974 – parts of it appear as advanced as any American city.

  63. Africans are the fugliest race of humans. I don’t mind they’re, on average, not quite bright. People here are obsessing about IQ etc. Not me. For me, the following is enough:

    * whites consider them fugly & ape-like
    * dot Indians the same
    * east Asians the same
    * feather Indians the same
    * brown Caucasians the same

    Perhaps only Australian Abos & Papuans can say- we’re uglier than they are.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    To be perfectly honest, it's quite enough for me too, but by itself it's not really a winning argument. "These people are aesthetically unappealing, therefore we have to... restrict immigration, segregate them, deport them etc." That is never gonna work.
    , @The Big Red Scary
    Speaking of Namibia, I've always found many of the Himba women really cute:

    https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C5CHFA_enRU784RU784&q=himba+women&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjL7aexpbfgAhVtdt8KHSXkBIYQsAR6BAgCEAE&biw=853&bih=441
  64. @Bardon Kaldian
    Africans are the fugliest race of humans. I don't mind they're, on average, not quite bright. People here are obsessing about IQ etc. Not me. For me, the following is enough:

    * whites consider them fugly & ape-like
    * dot Indians the same
    * east Asians the same
    * feather Indians the same
    * brown Caucasians the same

    Perhaps only Australian Abos & Papuans can say- we're uglier than they are.

    To be perfectly honest, it’s quite enough for me too, but by itself it’s not really a winning argument. “These people are aesthetically unappealing, therefore we have to… restrict immigration, segregate them, deport them etc.” That is never gonna work.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    One should devise a few quotients. IQ is just one. AQ-Aesthetic quotient. ASBQ- Anti social behavior quotient. GDQ- Genetic distance quotient. ....

    What functioning country or any other human group would want Africans among them? Gypsies? Papuans? I could go on & on....
  65. @Abelard Lindsey
    I think there is merit in discussing how a country known for "the Troubles" and a very active IRA can roll over for the multiculti 40 years later. I don't think anyone could have predicted this outcome 40 years ago.

    Perhaps Eldnah Ym is correct in that Irish nationalism was never anything more than anti-English sentiment and, once, with the troubles over, essentially evaporated due to a lack of psychological foundation in Irish identity itself. Another plausible explanation is, with increased standard of living and the mod-cons that accompany it, the birth rate significantly declined and, as a result, there are simply not enough young people to care about things like Irish nationalism. This is the dynamic that essentially killed Quebec nationalism. There are simply not enough young people to care anymore. That's why there have never been a second referendum for Quebec independence. If this dynamic is true and replicable, it is easy to predict that there will never be another referendum for Scottish independence as well.

    Since the Irish have been more victim than oppressor in the historical sense and never had any colonies (indeed they were a colony themselves), there is no reason for them to feel the collective liberal "white" guilt that the English and Continental Europeans feel today.

    That’s why there have never been a second referendum for Quebec independence.

    Yes there was, in 1995. The first was in 1980. It does indeed seem unlikely that there will ever be a third. Then again, “never say never” and all that.

    • Replies: @Abelard Lindsey
    I was referring to the 1995 referendum as the "first" one. I had forgotten about the 1980 one. But, yes, my point remains the same. I doubt there will be another one.
  66. @Anatoly Karlin

    (1) Economy: quality of life, wages,
     
    Immigrants predominantly go to the most economically successful countries, creating an impenetrable confounding effect.

    The Okuspearchuckers would say that it is precisely those immigrants that grant them their dynamism in the first place.

    No HBD, you have no choice but to get down and suck his cock.

    (2) Cultural identity,
     
    Yeah, it's atrocious how Kingdom Come: Deliverance didn't have any black people. Those hateful Czechs.

    / translation - cultural identity is malleable. And at this point it has very little relation to what you want it to be.

    (3) Ecology: zero population growth
     
    Here you go:

    http://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/time-childfree.jpg

    So one may wonder why some people who claim that they are against globalization and mass people movements keep yapping about it. A secret fifth column?
     
    Yes, utu, so far as it concerns you in particular, I am a fifth columnist. At least people like Steven Pinker would make for more interesting conversation partners as Europe turns into Africa.

    The HBD strategy will not gain any traction. It is a non starter. Linking HBD to nationalism means a suicide for nationalism. Politics is the art of the possible. You do not order your troops to charge the entrenched media machine gun nests up the hill. It would be a massacre and the end of nationalism. You do not do it particular when you have not that many troops. How many incels you have? You are not in Zhukov’s position who could afford wasting many lives. So stop dreaming of Zhukov and better listen to Bismarck. The strategy must in the first place be attractive to the new recruits who only can come form the side to the left of your position. And they will come from the traditional left if you include the anti-neoliberal program. The traditional left plus the far right against the middle = populism.

    The HBD unrealistic strategy that has a zero chance for success will only bring the Okuspearchuckers sooner lusting for blood afer being energized by your HBD ideology. It will take lots of leg spreading by white women to pacify them and even some of your incel soldiers will be liberated from their incelhoods.

    The problem posed by the Okuspearchuckers can be solved very simply. Only the vectors must be reversed so the policies we advocate are palatable to our allies on the left. We the nationalists practice compassionate nationalism not only for us but for everybody on the planet. We do not want to deplete homelands of the Okuspearchuckers from their most dynamic, risk taking and smartest individuals and rather we want to see them contributing to the development of their countries. We the compassionate nationalist do not continue the shameful practice of brain draining of the less developed countries which gave us wealth and the white privilege . We the compassionate nationalists do not approve of self-hating nationalists who abandon their countries instead of staying there helping to develop them. For these reasons the Okuspearchuckers will not be let in to our countries.

    Furthermore, we the compassionate nationalists believe that Okuspearchuckers can develop their countries and possibly in the future with some help from more developed countries which will be gladly provided by us, partly to compensate the unjust white privilege, the countries of the Okuspearchuckers will reach our level. To prove that we mean it and that we are saying it in a good faith we will round up and place in the rehab centers all propagandists professing that this is impossible on the account of hateful IQ and HBD false theories. The proscriptions list are being prepared as we speak. We will be getting to the letter K soon.

    I am sure that “Steven Pinker would make for more interesting conversation partner” but he does not even know you. In the meantime count your blessings and be grateful I am willing to talk to you.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    The traditional left plus the far right against the middle = populism.
     
    Here you go:

    twitter.com/alfonslopeztena/status/1094381713306857472

    We do not want to deplete homelands of the Okuspearchuckers from their most dynamic, risk taking and smartest individuals and rather we want to see them contributing to the development of their countries.
     
    That sounds like HBD crimethink, actually. http://www.unz.com/akarlin/immigration-and-effective-altruism/

    To prove that we mean it and that we are saying it in a good faith we will round up and place in the rehab centers all propagandists professing that this is impossible on the account of hateful IQ and HBD false theories.
     
    This reminds one of the Black Hundreds who decided to join up with the Bolsheviks in late 1917-early 1918. Didn't work out too well for them in the end, but swine right are going to swine right. At some cosmic level, perhaps they deserve to lose, over and over again.
  67. @Abelard Lindsey
    I think there is merit in discussing how a country known for "the Troubles" and a very active IRA can roll over for the multiculti 40 years later. I don't think anyone could have predicted this outcome 40 years ago.

    Perhaps Eldnah Ym is correct in that Irish nationalism was never anything more than anti-English sentiment and, once, with the troubles over, essentially evaporated due to a lack of psychological foundation in Irish identity itself. Another plausible explanation is, with increased standard of living and the mod-cons that accompany it, the birth rate significantly declined and, as a result, there are simply not enough young people to care about things like Irish nationalism. This is the dynamic that essentially killed Quebec nationalism. There are simply not enough young people to care anymore. That's why there have never been a second referendum for Quebec independence. If this dynamic is true and replicable, it is easy to predict that there will never be another referendum for Scottish independence as well.

    Since the Irish have been more victim than oppressor in the historical sense and never had any colonies (indeed they were a colony themselves), there is no reason for them to feel the collective liberal "white" guilt that the English and Continental Europeans feel today.

    The Irish emigrated to all parts of the British Empire. For people that supposedly hate the British they sure like following us about!

    • Replies: @EldnahYm
    Look at many immigrants who come to the West. They have no love for the host population, but are perfectly willing to come for the goodies.

    It's probably a bit more complicated in the British Isles. Most of the Irish, Scottish, and Welsh people who care about these things have more of a love/hate relationship with the English than a purely hate based one.
  68. @silviosilver
    To be perfectly honest, it's quite enough for me too, but by itself it's not really a winning argument. "These people are aesthetically unappealing, therefore we have to... restrict immigration, segregate them, deport them etc." That is never gonna work.

    One should devise a few quotients. IQ is just one. AQ-Aesthetic quotient. ASBQ- Anti social behavior quotient. GDQ- Genetic distance quotient. ….

    What functioning country or any other human group would want Africans among them? Gypsies? Papuans? I could go on & on….

    • Replies: @silviosilver

    What functioning country or any other human group would want Africans among them? Gypsies? Papuans? I could go on & on….
     
    It seems to me that the dirty little secret of even many of the their defenders is that they, too, don't really relish being around negroids. When this is the case even for people who are prepared to do the most to help negroids, then I think we can safely assume that for most 'normal' people, there is no desire whatsoever to have negroids around them.

    Alas...

    The bigger problem is the great majority of people cannot bring themselves to demand the official exclusion of negroids. Even people who have no problem making "racist" comments cannot, by and large, bring themselves to demand this. You can talk about nigger this and nigger that in their presence all you like, but the minute you suggest that political action is required, they turn cold. Ten seconds ago you were both a couple of fellow "racists," but now you are the racist (or the nazi or whatever).

    And if that wasn't bad enough, even among those rare few people who agree that political action is necessary, there is nothing like consensus on what that action should be. In fact, these disputes about "what to do" seem even more heated than spats between racists and anti-racists.

    (In this thread I have banged on about "negroids," as though race were solely about the distinction between black and non-black. To me that is indeed the most important racial distinction, but my arguments also apply to any in-group/out-group racial distinction one cares to make. I thought I should clarify that.)
  69. @Serrice
    I've found the best way to appeal to racialist tendencies in people is not to advocate for whites but rather to remind my fellow Irishmen that our history is basically a thousand years of ethnic conflict.

    I’ve found the best way to appeal to racialist tendencies in people is not to advocate for whites but rather to remind my fellow Irishmen that our history is basically a thousand years of ethnic conflict.

    Implicit racial appeals are a double-edged sword. On the one hand they do indeed allow you, for a time, to dodge accusations of racism while making headway against the forces of leftardism. On the other hand, they leave your people woefully unprepared to make an actual racial move – a move without which race-replacement will move closer to completion.

    Nationalists will inevitably be accused of racism. That’s a given. When they’re accused of racism, what is their response? They can dismiss the accusation or turn it back on their accuser – “Yeah, whatever, everything is ‘racism’ to you people”, or “Yeah, yeah, everything looks like ‘racism’ when you’re anti-white” – or they can give a ‘crypto-cuck’ response like “I’m not a racist, I’m a nationalist.

    I call the latter a crypto-cuck response because, in this day and age, it sounds pretty tough and self-assertive to call yourself a nationalist. “I’m a nationalist, I don’t take any shit.” It’s manly stuff.

    The thing is, while nationalists are busy being tough nationalists, race-replacement continues apace. People intermingle, they meet, they procreate, they become accustomed to seeing various sorts of faces, and they come to accept it as the natural order of things. Such people bring to nationalism a thousand racial exceptions. “Yes, most of those negroids are scum, but this best friend of mine, he’s great, we can’t exclude him.” Multiply that sentiment by a million people, all passionately defending their favorite A1 negroid, and the futility of non-racially explicit nationalism becomes clear.

    I don’t want to sound too cynical. Perhaps there is no other way than to go through implicitly racial (but officially non-racial) nationalism. To build a nationalist foundation, and then from that foundation proceed to move to more explicit racial appeals. I just don’t know. But I don’t think I am imagining things when I claim the pressure to be anti-racist is so enormous that plenty of nationalists will succumb to it and make racial exceptions left and right for individuals they believe are made of the right cultural stuff.

  70. @Bardon Kaldian
    Africans are the fugliest race of humans. I don't mind they're, on average, not quite bright. People here are obsessing about IQ etc. Not me. For me, the following is enough:

    * whites consider them fugly & ape-like
    * dot Indians the same
    * east Asians the same
    * feather Indians the same
    * brown Caucasians the same

    Perhaps only Australian Abos & Papuans can say- we're uglier than they are.
  71. @martin2
    The Irish emigrated to all parts of the British Empire. For people that supposedly hate the British they sure like following us about!

    Look at many immigrants who come to the West. They have no love for the host population, but are perfectly willing to come for the goodies.

    It’s probably a bit more complicated in the British Isles. Most of the Irish, Scottish, and Welsh people who care about these things have more of a love/hate relationship with the English than a purely hate based one.

  72. @Bardon Kaldian
    One should devise a few quotients. IQ is just one. AQ-Aesthetic quotient. ASBQ- Anti social behavior quotient. GDQ- Genetic distance quotient. ....

    What functioning country or any other human group would want Africans among them? Gypsies? Papuans? I could go on & on....

    What functioning country or any other human group would want Africans among them? Gypsies? Papuans? I could go on & on….

    It seems to me that the dirty little secret of even many of the their defenders is that they, too, don’t really relish being around negroids. When this is the case even for people who are prepared to do the most to help negroids, then I think we can safely assume that for most ‘normal’ people, there is no desire whatsoever to have negroids around them.

    Alas…

    The bigger problem is the great majority of people cannot bring themselves to demand the official exclusion of negroids. Even people who have no problem making “racist” comments cannot, by and large, bring themselves to demand this. You can talk about nigger this and nigger that in their presence all you like, but the minute you suggest that political action is required, they turn cold. Ten seconds ago you were both a couple of fellow “racists,” but now you are the racist (or the nazi or whatever).

    And if that wasn’t bad enough, even among those rare few people who agree that political action is necessary, there is nothing like consensus on what that action should be. In fact, these disputes about “what to do” seem even more heated than spats between racists and anti-racists.

    (In this thread I have banged on about “negroids,” as though race were solely about the distinction between black and non-black. To me that is indeed the most important racial distinction, but my arguments also apply to any in-group/out-group racial distinction one cares to make. I thought I should clarify that.)

  73. @Hibernian
    A people who produced Commodore John Barry who commanded the Continental Navy 185 years before JFK commanded Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines, were not a bunch of dumb peasants.

    A people who produced Commodore John Barry who commanded the Continental Navy 185 years before JFK commanded Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines, were not a bunch of dumb peasants.

    I don’t think Irish are dumb, just remarking on the irony that “Parbes” and the liberal commenter’s reply are similar.

  74. Anonymous[151] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    This is something I have remarked upon a lot as well. (Conversely, American millennials have also adopted European social attitudes. It's a Great Homogenization).

    Russia is an interesting edge case. Some aspects of American culture have penetrated very deeply (Game of Thrones, burgers) but #MeToo, #BLM, all of that crap, hasn't really made any inroads apart from a small subset of elite university students.

    I think the other commenter is right that English language skills are a gateway to Americanization of national politics; this may partly explain why the high-IQ, developed, and very pro-American Japan has almost totally avoided this process. I also think historical attitudes towards the US play a role; Germany seems a little more resistant to at least some aspects of this process (e.g. gay marriage only legalized in 2017, and I’ve been told that #MeToo has been kind of a dud there), and I think their latent distrust of America plays a role in that. Mix widespread English fluency with historically pro-American politics and you have a recipe for disaster (I’m looking at you, Sweden).

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Mitleser

    I also think historical attitudes towards the US play a role; Germany seems a little more resistant to at least some aspects of this process (e.g. gay marriage only legalized in 2017, and I’ve been told that #MeToo has been kind of a dud there), and I think their latent distrust of America plays a role in that. Mix widespread English fluency with historically pro-American politics and you have a recipe for disaster (I’m looking at you, Sweden).
     
    Large distrust? I doubt that.

    On the other hand, Germans dub their cultural imports, whereas Sweds just add subtitles.
    , @Dmitry
    This is an interesting point about linguistic isolation, which you can see with the Japanese (who have to communicate with the world visually, but not verbally).

    However, I don't think it's really applicable.

    1. In Russia, there is imported all the Western ideas and political concepts, but without the Western immune system (or antivirus program) for them. "Russian linguistic isolation" does not exist - as European languages are too similar. What exists is naive misunderstanding by people not being able to understand completely the ideas in original context. If you import foreign concepts, then it is better to understand the language in which they are formed - in this way you are more critical and less naive.

    This is something that was already known as an important vulnerability in the 19th century system (and naively understood Western ideas were in Russia in the 20th century, like how the European flu was for native Indians in America in the 16th century).

    2. America is much more right-wing and conservative, than Western Europe.

    3. Interchange between American and Western Europe, is a two-way process. The American Democrat politics is greatly influenced by Western Europe, as much as the other direction. Sweden is about 10 years in the future, in its radicalism, than American Democrat politics.

    American liberals "see the future of their ideas" in Europe. This is both in the university importation of French philosophy.

    Obama was like a Western European leader of the 1990s or early 2000s, in his ideology (he originally opposed gay marriage).

    Sweden already had gender neutral schools in 2011 (before American politics even know what this is). https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14038419

    4. Within Europe, there is no uniform correlation between English language ability and liberalism. Spain is one of the most radical liberal countries in social policy, while at the same time their English level is quite low. Countries like Austria have much better English than Spain.

    5. Programming languages, scientific research, etc, require English language ability. So I don't see how this can be avoided.

    , @AquariusAnon
    I think Poland's fluency in English, almost at the level of Sweden except they imitate British accents, plus its pro-American attitude, largely because it got pinned down for 40 years by the Sovoks and preceded by division by German, Austro-Hungarian, and Russian forces, will eventually do it in as a neoliberalism.txt immigrant-heavy country.

    On the other hand, Serbian youth are becoming just as fluent in English, but they seem to be resisting, and Romania is also nowhere near as far as Poland in neoliberalism.txt, with even better English skills. But Serbia has the "advantage" of getting bombed into smithereens back into stone age by NATO just 20 years ago, and Romania has the advantage of Italy-oriented immigration and Spanish/Latin-influenced entertainment.

    Poland on the other hand is Russophobic AND Germanphobic combined with being UK-oriented in immigration and has Anglo-influenced entertainment. This is a recipe for eventual disaster.

  75. AK, what is the HBD case for immigration restriction according to you?

    It seems like a straight ticket to being swarmed with Chinese. “These nigs are worthless, yes, but surely you’ll accept million upon million super smart Chinese immigrants, who are bound to make you rich, rich!” And since there are some high IQ hindoo castes, and numerous high IQ individuals of all countries, you’ll surely want a few hundred million of them too. What are you going to say to them?

    As for Utu’s prevent-brain-drain case for immigration restriction, ‘anti-racists’ might agree that the 3rd world needs to keep its intelligent workers at home to grow their own economies, but they’ll still insist you need to take those countries’ poor as immigrants – since evil, rich, white countries are responsible for those 3rd world countries being poor in the first place.

  76. @EldnahYm
    If that's the case then Ireland's economy has been a massive over performer. I doubt most of the national IQ estimates are reliable, particularly regarding fine-grained differences.

    In any case, lower IQ seems to be positively correlated with anti-immigration feelings in Western countries. So your story is unlikely to fit either way.

    “In any case, lower IQ seems to be positively correlated with anti-immigration feelings in Western countries”
    Going from being a “rough-and-tumble”, staunchly Roman Catholic/Anglo-Celtic-European society in terms of cultural mindset and outlook, to being open borders/immigration/multiculturalism/”diversity”/globalism cucks within less than two decades, is pretty stupid at the national level, if you ask me. Lower IQ – at the national level just as at the individual one – is correlated with not being able to independently think or decide for oneself too well in complex matters; and following the prescriptions of “superiors” in sheeplike manner. In the case of today’s Ireland, that would translate as rolling over and mindlessly deferring to the socioeconomic policies and attitudes prescribed for EVERY COUNTRY of the Western block (open borders, immigration, multiculturalism, etc.) by the “big brothers” – i.e., the current globalist ruling elites of the Anglosphere and EU – even to the point of radically altering one’s own society and racial-religious demography virtually overnight for no sensible reason.

    “So your story is unlikely to fit either way”
    It’s not “my story” – it is an actual FACT that the Irish have long been regarded, rightly or wrongly, as being one of those with the lowest average IQ among the historic European nations, and dubbed the “niggers of Europe”. (Needless to say, this does NOT mean that all Irishpeople are dumb, that there are/have been no smart and highly talented Irish individuals, etc., etc.)

    “If that’s the case then Ireland’s economy has been a massive over performer”
    My understanding is that the relative overperformance of the “Irish Tiger” over the last two decades was due to the aforementioned neoliberal globalist elites deciding to turn conveniently-located Ireland into a financial, tax, and services outsourcing haven, not to any great progress by the native Irish in industry, technology, production etc. – and even that has turned down in the past few years. Isn’t that so?

    Judging from the tone of your reply, you sound to me like either a triggered rah rah Irish patriot, or a neoliberal parrot repeating the worn tropes. Am I wrong?

    • Replies: @EldnahYm

    Going from being a “rough-and-tumble”, staunchly Roman Catholic/Anglo-Celtic-European society in terms of cultural mindset and outlook, to being open borders/immigration/multiculturalism/”diversity”/globalism cucks within less than two decades, is pretty stupid at the national level, if you ask me.
     
    The question is about the plausibility of the hypothesis that a relatively lower intelligence leads to cuckery, which is what is implied in your response to the Anonymous poster, and also seems to be implied in the first paragraph here. As far as I can tell though, the correlation is the opposite of what is needed to support your hypothesis. Whether something sounds dumb is a completely different matter, and anyway there's plenty of evidence of smart people behaving foolishly.

    It’s not “my story” – it is an actual FACT that the Irish have long been regarded, rightly or wrongly, as being one of those with the lowest average IQ among the historic European nations, and dubbed the “niggers of Europe”. (Needless to say, this does NOT mean that all Irishpeople are dumb, that there are/have been no smart and highly talented Irish individuals, etc., etc.)
     
    Right, and I question the extent to which that perception is true.

    My understanding is that the relative overperformance of the “Irish Tiger” over the last two decades was due to the aforementioned neoliberal globalist elites deciding to turn conveniently-located Ireland into a financial, tax, and services outsourcing haven, not to any great progress by the native Irish in industry, technology, production etc. – and even that has turned down in the past few years. Isn’t that so?
     
    You are certainly correct. The question however is to what extent has Ireland being a financial globalist haven overstates economic performance. You could reduce the size of Ireland's GDP by half, and they would still have a per capita GDP higher than the Mediterranean countries, even Italy, which despite all of its problems still has some industry and manufacturing. Divide the GDP by 3, and you still have a per capita GDP greater than all of Eastern Europe plus Portugal. Dividing it by 3 would make Ireland's GDP per capita about twice that of Russia's, and about 3 times greater than Ukraine or the Balkan countries.

    It just so happens that there are some measures like "modified gross national income" which do make the Irish economy look much less impressive. But again, if that's the case, we're still nowhere near Romania levels, much less Albania, Ukraine, or Moldova. It may be plausible that the Irish are below average among Northwestern European peoples, but I doubt they are among the dumbest in Europe. Furthermore I strongly doubt Richard Lynn's estimates of national IQ, even though the general picture of low IQ in Africa, middling in Southeast Asian and Latin America, high in Europe and slightly higher in parts of Northeast Asia is undoubtedly correct.

    Judging from the tone of your reply, you sound to me like either a triggered rah rah Irish patriot, or a neoliberal parrot repeating the worn tropes. Am I wrong?
     
    You're wrong in this case, I'm American, I don't have a drop of Irish blood as far as I know(though I probably have Ulster Scott ancestry, which could mean I have an Irish ancestor somewhere), and my views on the historical Irish Catholic immigration into the U.S. are negative in the extreme. I despise the Catholic Church, and I'm not a neoliberal either.

    Frankly I view the move away from the kind of politics from earlier in the 20th century, which was more racially based, more WASP culturally based, more sectarian, more pro-eugenic, more pro-militia, all to be partly a result of mass immigration of Catholics first, the "diverse" later. I view extreme pro-Capitalist views like Rand's(real name Rosenbaum) to be a largely Jewish ideology, and actually see a lot of symmetry between neoliberals and Communists, in that both in different ways have been committed to destroying traditional cultures. I view the same type of symmetry between Conservative Catholics(who are conservative because they think the most important issues in the world are gay marriage and making sure more Black babies are born) and Jewish liberals. These groups fight against each other on the unimportant issues, or one group plays the role of useful idiot protesting some issue but being unable to do anything to stop it, but on the stuff that really matters, they work together, and the prominence given to the relatively unimportant issues actually restricts coverage of the things that actually matter.
  77. @Hibernian
    I think it was a German colony before WW1, for whatever that's worth.

    I think it is more relevant that afterwards it was run by South Africa until 1990.

  78. @Anonymous
    I think the other commenter is right that English language skills are a gateway to Americanization of national politics; this may partly explain why the high-IQ, developed, and very pro-American Japan has almost totally avoided this process. I also think historical attitudes towards the US play a role; Germany seems a little more resistant to at least some aspects of this process (e.g. gay marriage only legalized in 2017, and I've been told that #MeToo has been kind of a dud there), and I think their latent distrust of America plays a role in that. Mix widespread English fluency with historically pro-American politics and you have a recipe for disaster (I'm looking at you, Sweden).

    I also think historical attitudes towards the US play a role; Germany seems a little more resistant to at least some aspects of this process (e.g. gay marriage only legalized in 2017, and I’ve been told that #MeToo has been kind of a dud there), and I think their latent distrust of America plays a role in that. Mix widespread English fluency with historically pro-American politics and you have a recipe for disaster (I’m looking at you, Sweden).

    Large distrust? I doubt that.

    On the other hand, Germans dub their cultural imports, whereas Sweds just add subtitles.

    • Replies: @songbird
    Number of primary speakers probably correlates somewhat to level of resistance, except you would have to ban English and Germany is fairly awash in it, if once you turn on the radio or go to school for immersion lessons. I also think Germany is in a weaker position because it was occupied and new politics planted inside it.

    Probably they would be better off banning all English and making reforms to differentiate the language further. Perhaps, borrowing from the dialects, or teaching them in school, and adding new letters like umlauts or sharp s, which don't exist in English. Typographic style may even help a little.

    Sweden perhaps, should have gone for some pan-Scandi language to increase the pool of speakers.
  79. @Hibernian
    I think it was a German colony before WW1, for whatever that's worth.

    There are still Germans living there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Namibians

  80. @Mitleser

    I also think historical attitudes towards the US play a role; Germany seems a little more resistant to at least some aspects of this process (e.g. gay marriage only legalized in 2017, and I’ve been told that #MeToo has been kind of a dud there), and I think their latent distrust of America plays a role in that. Mix widespread English fluency with historically pro-American politics and you have a recipe for disaster (I’m looking at you, Sweden).
     
    Large distrust? I doubt that.

    On the other hand, Germans dub their cultural imports, whereas Sweds just add subtitles.

    Number of primary speakers probably correlates somewhat to level of resistance, except you would have to ban English and Germany is fairly awash in it, if once you turn on the radio or go to school for immersion lessons. I also think Germany is in a weaker position because it was occupied and new politics planted inside it.

    Probably they would be better off banning all English and making reforms to differentiate the language further. Perhaps, borrowing from the dialects, or teaching them in school, and adding new letters like umlauts or sharp s, which don’t exist in English. Typographic style may even help a little.

    Sweden perhaps, should have gone for some pan-Scandi language to increase the pool of speakers.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    Typographic style may even help a little.
     
    I think Fraktur is rather hard to read for many people if one is not used to, although still not quite on the level of having a separate alphabet like Greek or Cyrillic.

    Ironically, Fraktur, which is often used to portray evil Germans (i.e. apparently in the recent Harry Potter film) was eventually phased out and condemned by... the Nazis!


    Sweden perhaps, should have gone for some pan-Scandi language to increase the pool of speakers.
     
    Scandinavian languages are still rather mutually intelligible even today, I was once an observer to a shared conversation which involved the Danes, Norwegians and Swedes all speaking their own languages and being understood by everyone.

    However, compréhension varies from person to person, although a common remark is Swedes having trouble to understand spoken Danish, which is much more vowel-heavy and light on consonants than its written variant (I suppose this makes it like French, except more irregular).

    It also depends on if they have a dialect/accent or not. I find Nynorsk and whatever dialect rural South Jutlanders speak annoying to interpret (kind of like trying to comprehend a heavy Scottish brogue).

  81. @Parbes
    "In any case, lower IQ seems to be positively correlated with anti-immigration feelings in Western countries"
    Going from being a "rough-and-tumble", staunchly Roman Catholic/Anglo-Celtic-European society in terms of cultural mindset and outlook, to being open borders/immigration/multiculturalism/"diversity"/globalism cucks within less than two decades, is pretty stupid at the national level, if you ask me. Lower IQ - at the national level just as at the individual one - is correlated with not being able to independently think or decide for oneself too well in complex matters; and following the prescriptions of "superiors" in sheeplike manner. In the case of today's Ireland, that would translate as rolling over and mindlessly deferring to the socioeconomic policies and attitudes prescribed for EVERY COUNTRY of the Western block (open borders, immigration, multiculturalism, etc.) by the "big brothers" - i.e., the current globalist ruling elites of the Anglosphere and EU - even to the point of radically altering one's own society and racial-religious demography virtually overnight for no sensible reason.

    "So your story is unlikely to fit either way"
    It's not "my story" - it is an actual FACT that the Irish have long been regarded, rightly or wrongly, as being one of those with the lowest average IQ among the historic European nations, and dubbed the "niggers of Europe". (Needless to say, this does NOT mean that all Irishpeople are dumb, that there are/have been no smart and highly talented Irish individuals, etc., etc.)

    "If that’s the case then Ireland’s economy has been a massive over performer"
    My understanding is that the relative overperformance of the "Irish Tiger" over the last two decades was due to the aforementioned neoliberal globalist elites deciding to turn conveniently-located Ireland into a financial, tax, and services outsourcing haven, not to any great progress by the native Irish in industry, technology, production etc. - and even that has turned down in the past few years. Isn't that so?

    Judging from the tone of your reply, you sound to me like either a triggered rah rah Irish patriot, or a neoliberal parrot repeating the worn tropes. Am I wrong?

    Going from being a “rough-and-tumble”, staunchly Roman Catholic/Anglo-Celtic-European society in terms of cultural mindset and outlook, to being open borders/immigration/multiculturalism/”diversity”/globalism cucks within less than two decades, is pretty stupid at the national level, if you ask me.

    The question is about the plausibility of the hypothesis that a relatively lower intelligence leads to cuckery, which is what is implied in your response to the Anonymous poster, and also seems to be implied in the first paragraph here. As far as I can tell though, the correlation is the opposite of what is needed to support your hypothesis. Whether something sounds dumb is a completely different matter, and anyway there’s plenty of evidence of smart people behaving foolishly.

    It’s not “my story” – it is an actual FACT that the Irish have long been regarded, rightly or wrongly, as being one of those with the lowest average IQ among the historic European nations, and dubbed the “niggers of Europe”. (Needless to say, this does NOT mean that all Irishpeople are dumb, that there are/have been no smart and highly talented Irish individuals, etc., etc.)

    Right, and I question the extent to which that perception is true.

    My understanding is that the relative overperformance of the “Irish Tiger” over the last two decades was due to the aforementioned neoliberal globalist elites deciding to turn conveniently-located Ireland into a financial, tax, and services outsourcing haven, not to any great progress by the native Irish in industry, technology, production etc. – and even that has turned down in the past few years. Isn’t that so?

    You are certainly correct. The question however is to what extent has Ireland being a financial globalist haven overstates economic performance. You could reduce the size of Ireland’s GDP by half, and they would still have a per capita GDP higher than the Mediterranean countries, even Italy, which despite all of its problems still has some industry and manufacturing. Divide the GDP by 3, and you still have a per capita GDP greater than all of Eastern Europe plus Portugal. Dividing it by 3 would make Ireland’s GDP per capita about twice that of Russia’s, and about 3 times greater than Ukraine or the Balkan countries.

    It just so happens that there are some measures like “modified gross national income” which do make the Irish economy look much less impressive. But again, if that’s the case, we’re still nowhere near Romania levels, much less Albania, Ukraine, or Moldova. It may be plausible that the Irish are below average among Northwestern European peoples, but I doubt they are among the dumbest in Europe. Furthermore I strongly doubt Richard Lynn’s estimates of national IQ, even though the general picture of low IQ in Africa, middling in Southeast Asian and Latin America, high in Europe and slightly higher in parts of Northeast Asia is undoubtedly correct.

    Judging from the tone of your reply, you sound to me like either a triggered rah rah Irish patriot, or a neoliberal parrot repeating the worn tropes. Am I wrong?

    You’re wrong in this case, I’m American, I don’t have a drop of Irish blood as far as I know(though I probably have Ulster Scott ancestry, which could mean I have an Irish ancestor somewhere), and my views on the historical Irish Catholic immigration into the U.S. are negative in the extreme. I despise the Catholic Church, and I’m not a neoliberal either.

    Frankly I view the move away from the kind of politics from earlier in the 20th century, which was more racially based, more WASP culturally based, more sectarian, more pro-eugenic, more pro-militia, all to be partly a result of mass immigration of Catholics first, the “diverse” later. I view extreme pro-Capitalist views like Rand’s(real name Rosenbaum) to be a largely Jewish ideology, and actually see a lot of symmetry between neoliberals and Communists, in that both in different ways have been committed to destroying traditional cultures. I view the same type of symmetry between Conservative Catholics(who are conservative because they think the most important issues in the world are gay marriage and making sure more Black babies are born) and Jewish liberals. These groups fight against each other on the unimportant issues, or one group plays the role of useful idiot protesting some issue but being unable to do anything to stop it, but on the stuff that really matters, they work together, and the prominence given to the relatively unimportant issues actually restricts coverage of the things that actually matter.

    • Replies: @EldnahYm

    which was more racially based, more WASP culturally based, more sectarian, more pro-eugenic, more pro-militia,
     
    +more isolationist I should have said
  82. @EldnahYm

    Going from being a “rough-and-tumble”, staunchly Roman Catholic/Anglo-Celtic-European society in terms of cultural mindset and outlook, to being open borders/immigration/multiculturalism/”diversity”/globalism cucks within less than two decades, is pretty stupid at the national level, if you ask me.
     
    The question is about the plausibility of the hypothesis that a relatively lower intelligence leads to cuckery, which is what is implied in your response to the Anonymous poster, and also seems to be implied in the first paragraph here. As far as I can tell though, the correlation is the opposite of what is needed to support your hypothesis. Whether something sounds dumb is a completely different matter, and anyway there's plenty of evidence of smart people behaving foolishly.

    It’s not “my story” – it is an actual FACT that the Irish have long been regarded, rightly or wrongly, as being one of those with the lowest average IQ among the historic European nations, and dubbed the “niggers of Europe”. (Needless to say, this does NOT mean that all Irishpeople are dumb, that there are/have been no smart and highly talented Irish individuals, etc., etc.)
     
    Right, and I question the extent to which that perception is true.

    My understanding is that the relative overperformance of the “Irish Tiger” over the last two decades was due to the aforementioned neoliberal globalist elites deciding to turn conveniently-located Ireland into a financial, tax, and services outsourcing haven, not to any great progress by the native Irish in industry, technology, production etc. – and even that has turned down in the past few years. Isn’t that so?
     
    You are certainly correct. The question however is to what extent has Ireland being a financial globalist haven overstates economic performance. You could reduce the size of Ireland's GDP by half, and they would still have a per capita GDP higher than the Mediterranean countries, even Italy, which despite all of its problems still has some industry and manufacturing. Divide the GDP by 3, and you still have a per capita GDP greater than all of Eastern Europe plus Portugal. Dividing it by 3 would make Ireland's GDP per capita about twice that of Russia's, and about 3 times greater than Ukraine or the Balkan countries.

    It just so happens that there are some measures like "modified gross national income" which do make the Irish economy look much less impressive. But again, if that's the case, we're still nowhere near Romania levels, much less Albania, Ukraine, or Moldova. It may be plausible that the Irish are below average among Northwestern European peoples, but I doubt they are among the dumbest in Europe. Furthermore I strongly doubt Richard Lynn's estimates of national IQ, even though the general picture of low IQ in Africa, middling in Southeast Asian and Latin America, high in Europe and slightly higher in parts of Northeast Asia is undoubtedly correct.

    Judging from the tone of your reply, you sound to me like either a triggered rah rah Irish patriot, or a neoliberal parrot repeating the worn tropes. Am I wrong?
     
    You're wrong in this case, I'm American, I don't have a drop of Irish blood as far as I know(though I probably have Ulster Scott ancestry, which could mean I have an Irish ancestor somewhere), and my views on the historical Irish Catholic immigration into the U.S. are negative in the extreme. I despise the Catholic Church, and I'm not a neoliberal either.

    Frankly I view the move away from the kind of politics from earlier in the 20th century, which was more racially based, more WASP culturally based, more sectarian, more pro-eugenic, more pro-militia, all to be partly a result of mass immigration of Catholics first, the "diverse" later. I view extreme pro-Capitalist views like Rand's(real name Rosenbaum) to be a largely Jewish ideology, and actually see a lot of symmetry between neoliberals and Communists, in that both in different ways have been committed to destroying traditional cultures. I view the same type of symmetry between Conservative Catholics(who are conservative because they think the most important issues in the world are gay marriage and making sure more Black babies are born) and Jewish liberals. These groups fight against each other on the unimportant issues, or one group plays the role of useful idiot protesting some issue but being unable to do anything to stop it, but on the stuff that really matters, they work together, and the prominence given to the relatively unimportant issues actually restricts coverage of the things that actually matter.

    which was more racially based, more WASP culturally based, more sectarian, more pro-eugenic, more pro-militia,

    +more isolationist I should have said

  83. This 2 hour long interview is worth the time

  84. @songbird
    Number of primary speakers probably correlates somewhat to level of resistance, except you would have to ban English and Germany is fairly awash in it, if once you turn on the radio or go to school for immersion lessons. I also think Germany is in a weaker position because it was occupied and new politics planted inside it.

    Probably they would be better off banning all English and making reforms to differentiate the language further. Perhaps, borrowing from the dialects, or teaching them in school, and adding new letters like umlauts or sharp s, which don't exist in English. Typographic style may even help a little.

    Sweden perhaps, should have gone for some pan-Scandi language to increase the pool of speakers.

    Typographic style may even help a little.

    I think Fraktur is rather hard to read for many people if one is not used to, although still not quite on the level of having a separate alphabet like Greek or Cyrillic.

    Ironically, Fraktur, which is often used to portray evil Germans (i.e. apparently in the recent Harry Potter film) was eventually phased out and condemned by… the Nazis!

    Sweden perhaps, should have gone for some pan-Scandi language to increase the pool of speakers.

    Scandinavian languages are still rather mutually intelligible even today, I was once an observer to a shared conversation which involved the Danes, Norwegians and Swedes all speaking their own languages and being understood by everyone.

    However, compréhension varies from person to person, although a common remark is Swedes having trouble to understand spoken Danish, which is much more vowel-heavy and light on consonants than its written variant (I suppose this makes it like French, except more irregular).

    It also depends on if they have a dialect/accent or not. I find Nynorsk and whatever dialect rural South Jutlanders speak annoying to interpret (kind of like trying to comprehend a heavy Scottish brogue).

    • Replies: @songbird
    I believe that the handwriting of Germans still carries a slight influence of Fraktur to this day. I've been curious if that is the case with other nearby peoples but lack the experience to say so.

    Similarly, it is said that Irish people have a more roundabout way of talking, as a legacy of the Irish language, which contained no succinct way to say "no."

    I think there is an analogy to be made between the number of speakers of a language and the size of its political sphere. Smaller and more geographically concentrated bodies, which meet for long periods, are probably easier to subvert than larger ones that meet for short periods, like the Central Committee of China - not that it has much power.

    Perhaps, English could even be reformed to make it less subversive. For instance, I have always been dismissive of the idea of teaching Ebonics, but it probably makes sense to push it, on some levels.
  85. @EldnahYm
    The Kennedy's would have never sniffed the Presidency without the support of the Irish Catholic rank and file. Don't kid yourself.

    True, but he’s still probably right – more based than the Irish in Ireland is a relative statement, after all. The Irish in America may have doomed themselves by voting Democrat for generations, BUT they did give us the likes of the South Boston busing riots, and the Hays Production Code, and that’s more than I can say for the Irish in Ireland.

  86. @for-the-record
    I think it was a German colony before WW1, for whatever that’s worth.

    On the other hand, so were Rwanda, Burundi, Tanzania, Cameroon and Togo.

    In the 1980s I worked a lot in Africa (Rwanda, Burundi, Zaire, Gambia, Ghana) and had severe "culture shock" when I visited Windhoek (Namibia's capital) in the early 1990s.

    But, unlike the other colonies, what is now Namibia actually had a lot of German settlers.

  87. @Anatoly Karlin
    This is something I have remarked upon a lot as well. (Conversely, American millennials have also adopted European social attitudes. It's a Great Homogenization).

    Russia is an interesting edge case. Some aspects of American culture have penetrated very deeply (Game of Thrones, burgers) but #MeToo, #BLM, all of that crap, hasn't really made any inroads apart from a small subset of elite university students.

    Just my $0.02, but I think this is correct. I don’t think it’s a one way transfer where Europeans have adopted American leftist attitudes as the leftward shift of American culture started in the late-90’s/early-00s as younger/lefter Americans (now middle aged) often had an inferiority complex wrt to Europeans as they saw US culture as being very non-cosmopolitan, jingoistic, reactive, etc.

    Interestingly, I think that American leftists have moved to the left of European leftists, with European leftists now moving beyond the traditional class focus towards the more identitarian focus of the current American left.

  88. often had an inferiority complex wrt to Europeans as they saw US culture as being very non-cosmopolitan, jingoistic, reactive, etc.

    This is correct.

    I remember well in the 90s how the American Left adored and looked up to Europe. I think American intellectuals have always been more affected by Europe than vice versa. Mark Twain early on made an attempt to stop Americans slavishly looking up to Europe, but it did not work.

    The idea that America is making Europe Left is another silly alt-right idea without basis in reality. That is in fact almost the opposite of reality.

    The alt-right thinks that the stronger military and economic power must naturally dominate culturally, because the alt-right is composed of brutish, sloping-browed people who worship only power. They think that since they worship power, everyone else does too, and so naturally America must dominate culturally. It’s of a piece with Game, the obsession with ranking, etc. It’s how they think about everything. America has more power, so European intellectuals must be taking their cues from America. Simple.

    America excels at producing culture that appeals to the masses, not high culture, and in terms of high culture, the influence has always been from Europe to America. In terms of low culture, America is certainly more influential than vice versa, but probably not hugely influential in general.

    What is happening today is indeed a sort of convergence, as the Western elite as a whole develop the Enlightenment tradition to the next level, and in some ways the Romantic tradition of Western self-rejection and xenophilia.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    The Enlightenment and Romantic traditions are the Common Core of Western culture, essentially fully developed by the end of the 18th century. Everything we are seeing today was already implicitly in place. It just needed to be worked out, the task of generations.

    What we are seeing today is the ideas implicit in the Common Core being developed into their next level. This process has been continuous since the 1600s, and isn't over yet.

    These ideas are even making inroads in Asia, where I'm travelling now.
    , @Dmitry
    Yes - I think you are correct here. .

    For example, Denmark legalized "civil partnership" (between same-sex) in 1989. In Sweden, in 1995. In Germany, in 2001.

    Full "gay marriage" is established first in Netherlands in 2000 and in Belgium in 2003.

    In America, "gay marriage" is only then arriving years later, with the end of the Obama epoch, in 2015 (and "civil partnership" was never accepted).

    Whether you feel it is an important issue or not (I think not very important), Europe was called "Gayropa", with some reality, and the view on this topic is symptomatic of many other more important topics.

    , @Hyperborean
    You are not even wrong.
  89. @AaronB

    often had an inferiority complex wrt to Europeans as they saw US culture as being very non-cosmopolitan, jingoistic, reactive, etc.
     
    This is correct.

    I remember well in the 90s how the American Left adored and looked up to Europe. I think American intellectuals have always been more affected by Europe than vice versa. Mark Twain early on made an attempt to stop Americans slavishly looking up to Europe, but it did not work.

    The idea that America is making Europe Left is another silly alt-right idea without basis in reality. That is in fact almost the opposite of reality.

    The alt-right thinks that the stronger military and economic power must naturally dominate culturally, because the alt-right is composed of brutish, sloping-browed people who worship only power. They think that since they worship power, everyone else does too, and so naturally America must dominate culturally. It's of a piece with Game, the obsession with ranking, etc. It's how they think about everything. America has more power, so European intellectuals must be taking their cues from America. Simple.

    America excels at producing culture that appeals to the masses, not high culture, and in terms of high culture, the influence has always been from Europe to America. In terms of low culture, America is certainly more influential than vice versa, but probably not hugely influential in general.

    What is happening today is indeed a sort of convergence, as the Western elite as a whole develop the Enlightenment tradition to the next level, and in some ways the Romantic tradition of Western self-rejection and xenophilia.

    The Enlightenment and Romantic traditions are the Common Core of Western culture, essentially fully developed by the end of the 18th century. Everything we are seeing today was already implicitly in place. It just needed to be worked out, the task of generations.

    What we are seeing today is the ideas implicit in the Common Core being developed into their next level. This process has been continuous since the 1600s, and isn’t over yet.

    These ideas are even making inroads in Asia, where I’m travelling now.

  90. @utu
    The HBD strategy will not gain any traction. It is a non starter. Linking HBD to nationalism means a suicide for nationalism. Politics is the art of the possible. You do not order your troops to charge the entrenched media machine gun nests up the hill. It would be a massacre and the end of nationalism. You do not do it particular when you have not that many troops. How many incels you have? You are not in Zhukov's position who could afford wasting many lives. So stop dreaming of Zhukov and better listen to Bismarck. The strategy must in the first place be attractive to the new recruits who only can come form the side to the left of your position. And they will come from the traditional left if you include the anti-neoliberal program. The traditional left plus the far right against the middle = populism.

    The HBD unrealistic strategy that has a zero chance for success will only bring the Okuspearchuckers sooner lusting for blood afer being energized by your HBD ideology. It will take lots of leg spreading by white women to pacify them and even some of your incel soldiers will be liberated from their incelhoods.

    The problem posed by the Okuspearchuckers can be solved very simply. Only the vectors must be reversed so the policies we advocate are palatable to our allies on the left. We the nationalists practice compassionate nationalism not only for us but for everybody on the planet. We do not want to deplete homelands of the Okuspearchuckers from their most dynamic, risk taking and smartest individuals and rather we want to see them contributing to the development of their countries. We the compassionate nationalist do not continue the shameful practice of brain draining of the less developed countries which gave us wealth and the white privilege . We the compassionate nationalists do not approve of self-hating nationalists who abandon their countries instead of staying there helping to develop them. For these reasons the Okuspearchuckers will not be let in to our countries.

    Furthermore, we the compassionate nationalists believe that Okuspearchuckers can develop their countries and possibly in the future with some help from more developed countries which will be gladly provided by us, partly to compensate the unjust white privilege, the countries of the Okuspearchuckers will reach our level. To prove that we mean it and that we are saying it in a good faith we will round up and place in the rehab centers all propagandists professing that this is impossible on the account of hateful IQ and HBD false theories. The proscriptions list are being prepared as we speak. We will be getting to the letter K soon.

    I am sure that "Steven Pinker would make for more interesting conversation partner" but he does not even know you. In the meantime count your blessings and be grateful I am willing to talk to you.

    The traditional left plus the far right against the middle = populism.

    Here you go:

    twitter.com/alfonslopeztena/status/1094381713306857472

    We do not want to deplete homelands of the Okuspearchuckers from their most dynamic, risk taking and smartest individuals and rather we want to see them contributing to the development of their countries.

    That sounds like HBD crimethink, actually. http://www.unz.com/akarlin/immigration-and-effective-altruism/

    To prove that we mean it and that we are saying it in a good faith we will round up and place in the rehab centers all propagandists professing that this is impossible on the account of hateful IQ and HBD false theories.

    This reminds one of the Black Hundreds who decided to join up with the Bolsheviks in late 1917-early 1918. Didn’t work out too well for them in the end, but swine right are going to swine right. At some cosmic level, perhaps they deserve to lose, over and over again.

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary

    This reminds one of the Black Hundreds who decided to join up with the Bolsheviks
     
    That's interesting. Where to read up on it? My first few Google searches turned up very confused results.
  91. @Anonymous
    I think the other commenter is right that English language skills are a gateway to Americanization of national politics; this may partly explain why the high-IQ, developed, and very pro-American Japan has almost totally avoided this process. I also think historical attitudes towards the US play a role; Germany seems a little more resistant to at least some aspects of this process (e.g. gay marriage only legalized in 2017, and I've been told that #MeToo has been kind of a dud there), and I think their latent distrust of America plays a role in that. Mix widespread English fluency with historically pro-American politics and you have a recipe for disaster (I'm looking at you, Sweden).

    This is an interesting point about linguistic isolation, which you can see with the Japanese (who have to communicate with the world visually, but not verbally).

    However, I don’t think it’s really applicable.

    1. In Russia, there is imported all the Western ideas and political concepts, but without the Western immune system (or antivirus program) for them. “Russian linguistic isolation” does not exist – as European languages are too similar. What exists is naive misunderstanding by people not being able to understand completely the ideas in original context. If you import foreign concepts, then it is better to understand the language in which they are formed – in this way you are more critical and less naive.

    This is something that was already known as an important vulnerability in the 19th century system (and naively understood Western ideas were in Russia in the 20th century, like how the European flu was for native Indians in America in the 16th century).

    2. America is much more right-wing and conservative, than Western Europe.

    3. Interchange between American and Western Europe, is a two-way process. The American Democrat politics is greatly influenced by Western Europe, as much as the other direction. Sweden is about 10 years in the future, in its radicalism, than American Democrat politics.

    American liberals “see the future of their ideas” in Europe. This is both in the university importation of French philosophy.

    Obama was like a Western European leader of the 1990s or early 2000s, in his ideology (he originally opposed gay marriage).

    Sweden already had gender neutral schools in 2011 (before American politics even know what this is). https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14038419

    4. Within Europe, there is no uniform correlation between English language ability and liberalism. Spain is one of the most radical liberal countries in social policy, while at the same time their English level is quite low. Countries like Austria have much better English than Spain.

    5. Programming languages, scientific research, etc, require English language ability. So I don’t see how this can be avoided.

    • Replies: @Mitleser

    1. In Russia, there is imported all the Western ideas and political concepts, but without the Western immune system (or antivirus program) for them.
     
    What "Western immune system" are you talking about?

    4. Within Europe, there is no uniform correlation between English language ability and liberalism. Spain is one of the most radical liberal countries in social policy, while at the same time their English level is quite low.
     
    Backlash against the previous right-wing rule.
    If you remove that, how much liberalism would remain?
  92. @Hyperborean

    Typographic style may even help a little.
     
    I think Fraktur is rather hard to read for many people if one is not used to, although still not quite on the level of having a separate alphabet like Greek or Cyrillic.

    Ironically, Fraktur, which is often used to portray evil Germans (i.e. apparently in the recent Harry Potter film) was eventually phased out and condemned by... the Nazis!


    Sweden perhaps, should have gone for some pan-Scandi language to increase the pool of speakers.
     
    Scandinavian languages are still rather mutually intelligible even today, I was once an observer to a shared conversation which involved the Danes, Norwegians and Swedes all speaking their own languages and being understood by everyone.

    However, compréhension varies from person to person, although a common remark is Swedes having trouble to understand spoken Danish, which is much more vowel-heavy and light on consonants than its written variant (I suppose this makes it like French, except more irregular).

    It also depends on if they have a dialect/accent or not. I find Nynorsk and whatever dialect rural South Jutlanders speak annoying to interpret (kind of like trying to comprehend a heavy Scottish brogue).

    I believe that the handwriting of Germans still carries a slight influence of Fraktur to this day. I’ve been curious if that is the case with other nearby peoples but lack the experience to say so.

    Similarly, it is said that Irish people have a more roundabout way of talking, as a legacy of the Irish language, which contained no succinct way to say “no.”

    I think there is an analogy to be made between the number of speakers of a language and the size of its political sphere. Smaller and more geographically concentrated bodies, which meet for long periods, are probably easier to subvert than larger ones that meet for short periods, like the Central Committee of China – not that it has much power.

    Perhaps, English could even be reformed to make it less subversive. For instance, I have always been dismissive of the idea of teaching Ebonics, but it probably makes sense to push it, on some levels.

  93. @AaronB

    often had an inferiority complex wrt to Europeans as they saw US culture as being very non-cosmopolitan, jingoistic, reactive, etc.
     
    This is correct.

    I remember well in the 90s how the American Left adored and looked up to Europe. I think American intellectuals have always been more affected by Europe than vice versa. Mark Twain early on made an attempt to stop Americans slavishly looking up to Europe, but it did not work.

    The idea that America is making Europe Left is another silly alt-right idea without basis in reality. That is in fact almost the opposite of reality.

    The alt-right thinks that the stronger military and economic power must naturally dominate culturally, because the alt-right is composed of brutish, sloping-browed people who worship only power. They think that since they worship power, everyone else does too, and so naturally America must dominate culturally. It's of a piece with Game, the obsession with ranking, etc. It's how they think about everything. America has more power, so European intellectuals must be taking their cues from America. Simple.

    America excels at producing culture that appeals to the masses, not high culture, and in terms of high culture, the influence has always been from Europe to America. In terms of low culture, America is certainly more influential than vice versa, but probably not hugely influential in general.

    What is happening today is indeed a sort of convergence, as the Western elite as a whole develop the Enlightenment tradition to the next level, and in some ways the Romantic tradition of Western self-rejection and xenophilia.

    Yes – I think you are correct here. .

    For example, Denmark legalized “civil partnership” (between same-sex) in 1989. In Sweden, in 1995. In Germany, in 2001.

    Full “gay marriage” is established first in Netherlands in 2000 and in Belgium in 2003.

    In America, “gay marriage” is only then arriving years later, with the end of the Obama epoch, in 2015 (and “civil partnership” was never accepted).

    Whether you feel it is an important issue or not (I think not very important), Europe was called “Gayropa”, with some reality, and the view on this topic is symptomatic of many other more important topics.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    Yes, throughout most of the 20th century, Europe was more advanced socially in terms of being Left, and American intellectuals always looked to Europe for guidance on how to be more Left.

    Today it seems there is some sort of convergence going on, maybe caused by the internet and enhanced ease of global communication, and the West is uniting around its core traditions, developing them, and there fewer outliers among countries.

    In terms of the pleasures of life, food culture, etc, America has become much more European also, which is a major cultural advance and a more profound shift than people realize. It can only mean a weakening of the Puritan tradition and the old American tendency to discount the arts and graces of life in favor of making money and getting stuff done. America is becoming a mature country.

    I remember in NY even in the 90s only a few stores carried European gastronomic products, now they are everywhere and even lavish temples to good food, like Eataly, fill up entire city blocks. And there is an explosion of craft beers and the like.

    All good developments. I expect America to become more economically socialist as time passes, further converging with European norms, and to continue to become more sophisticated in food and the graces of life
    , @Hyperborean

    (and “civil partnership” was never accepted).
     
    From Wikipedia, recognition of civil unions:


    Hawaii (1997)
    City of New York City (1998)
    California (1999)
    District of Columbia (2002)
    Maine (2004)
    New Jersey (2004)
    Washington (2007)
    Maryland (2008)
    Oregon (2008)
    Colorado (2009)
    Nevada (2009)
    Illinois (2011)

     

    But I think official 'gay marriage' is the most important marker, because of its symbolic significance to both its proponents ('civil unions' are seen as a lesser status) and opponents and because otherwise Hungary, which allows civil unions but constitutionally forbid same-sex marriage, would have to be included.

    From America, state legalisation of homosexual marriage was a gradual process from 2004 up to 2015.

    In Western Europe:

    Netherlands - 2001
    Belgium - 2003
    Spain - 2005
    Sweden - 2009
    Norway - 2009
    Portugal - 2010
    Iceland - 2010
    Denmark - 2012
    France - 2013
    UK - 2014
    Ireland - 2015
    Luxembourg - 2015
    Finland - 2017
    Malta - 2017
    Germany - 2017
    Austria - 2019

    Whether you feel it is an important issue or not (I think not very important), Europe was called “Gayropa”, with some reality, and the view on this topic is symptomatic of many other more important topics.
     
    Americans have different ideas of what it means to be 'left-wing' or 'right-wing', so naturally analysing issues like abortion or gun rights from will produce a flawed perspective.

    Aside from the fact that American institutions spend a lot of effort on agitation in Europe, the fact that European liberals all ape liberal, ruling Americans (like the nonsensical 'white nationalist' insult above) show that the influence here goes primarily west to east, not east to east across the ocean.
  94. @AaronB

    often had an inferiority complex wrt to Europeans as they saw US culture as being very non-cosmopolitan, jingoistic, reactive, etc.
     
    This is correct.

    I remember well in the 90s how the American Left adored and looked up to Europe. I think American intellectuals have always been more affected by Europe than vice versa. Mark Twain early on made an attempt to stop Americans slavishly looking up to Europe, but it did not work.

    The idea that America is making Europe Left is another silly alt-right idea without basis in reality. That is in fact almost the opposite of reality.

    The alt-right thinks that the stronger military and economic power must naturally dominate culturally, because the alt-right is composed of brutish, sloping-browed people who worship only power. They think that since they worship power, everyone else does too, and so naturally America must dominate culturally. It's of a piece with Game, the obsession with ranking, etc. It's how they think about everything. America has more power, so European intellectuals must be taking their cues from America. Simple.

    America excels at producing culture that appeals to the masses, not high culture, and in terms of high culture, the influence has always been from Europe to America. In terms of low culture, America is certainly more influential than vice versa, but probably not hugely influential in general.

    What is happening today is indeed a sort of convergence, as the Western elite as a whole develop the Enlightenment tradition to the next level, and in some ways the Romantic tradition of Western self-rejection and xenophilia.

    You are not even wrong.

  95. @Dmitry
    Yes - I think you are correct here. .

    For example, Denmark legalized "civil partnership" (between same-sex) in 1989. In Sweden, in 1995. In Germany, in 2001.

    Full "gay marriage" is established first in Netherlands in 2000 and in Belgium in 2003.

    In America, "gay marriage" is only then arriving years later, with the end of the Obama epoch, in 2015 (and "civil partnership" was never accepted).

    Whether you feel it is an important issue or not (I think not very important), Europe was called "Gayropa", with some reality, and the view on this topic is symptomatic of many other more important topics.

    Yes, throughout most of the 20th century, Europe was more advanced socially in terms of being Left, and American intellectuals always looked to Europe for guidance on how to be more Left.

    Today it seems there is some sort of convergence going on, maybe caused by the internet and enhanced ease of global communication, and the West is uniting around its core traditions, developing them, and there fewer outliers among countries.

    In terms of the pleasures of life, food culture, etc, America has become much more European also, which is a major cultural advance and a more profound shift than people realize. It can only mean a weakening of the Puritan tradition and the old American tendency to discount the arts and graces of life in favor of making money and getting stuff done. America is becoming a mature country.

    I remember in NY even in the 90s only a few stores carried European gastronomic products, now they are everywhere and even lavish temples to good food, like Eataly, fill up entire city blocks. And there is an explosion of craft beers and the like.

    All good developments. I expect America to become more economically socialist as time passes, further converging with European norms, and to continue to become more sophisticated in food and the graces of life

  96. @Anatoly Karlin

    The traditional left plus the far right against the middle = populism.
     
    Here you go:

    twitter.com/alfonslopeztena/status/1094381713306857472

    We do not want to deplete homelands of the Okuspearchuckers from their most dynamic, risk taking and smartest individuals and rather we want to see them contributing to the development of their countries.
     
    That sounds like HBD crimethink, actually. http://www.unz.com/akarlin/immigration-and-effective-altruism/

    To prove that we mean it and that we are saying it in a good faith we will round up and place in the rehab centers all propagandists professing that this is impossible on the account of hateful IQ and HBD false theories.
     
    This reminds one of the Black Hundreds who decided to join up with the Bolsheviks in late 1917-early 1918. Didn't work out too well for them in the end, but swine right are going to swine right. At some cosmic level, perhaps they deserve to lose, over and over again.

    This reminds one of the Black Hundreds who decided to join up with the Bolsheviks

    That’s interesting. Where to read up on it? My first few Google searches turned up very confused results.

  97. @silviosilver

    That’s why there have never been a second referendum for Quebec independence.
     
    Yes there was, in 1995. The first was in 1980. It does indeed seem unlikely that there will ever be a third. Then again, "never say never" and all that.

    I was referring to the 1995 referendum as the “first” one. I had forgotten about the 1980 one. But, yes, my point remains the same. I doubt there will be another one.

  98. @Dmitry
    This is an interesting point about linguistic isolation, which you can see with the Japanese (who have to communicate with the world visually, but not verbally).

    However, I don't think it's really applicable.

    1. In Russia, there is imported all the Western ideas and political concepts, but without the Western immune system (or antivirus program) for them. "Russian linguistic isolation" does not exist - as European languages are too similar. What exists is naive misunderstanding by people not being able to understand completely the ideas in original context. If you import foreign concepts, then it is better to understand the language in which they are formed - in this way you are more critical and less naive.

    This is something that was already known as an important vulnerability in the 19th century system (and naively understood Western ideas were in Russia in the 20th century, like how the European flu was for native Indians in America in the 16th century).

    2. America is much more right-wing and conservative, than Western Europe.

    3. Interchange between American and Western Europe, is a two-way process. The American Democrat politics is greatly influenced by Western Europe, as much as the other direction. Sweden is about 10 years in the future, in its radicalism, than American Democrat politics.

    American liberals "see the future of their ideas" in Europe. This is both in the university importation of French philosophy.

    Obama was like a Western European leader of the 1990s or early 2000s, in his ideology (he originally opposed gay marriage).

    Sweden already had gender neutral schools in 2011 (before American politics even know what this is). https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14038419

    4. Within Europe, there is no uniform correlation between English language ability and liberalism. Spain is one of the most radical liberal countries in social policy, while at the same time their English level is quite low. Countries like Austria have much better English than Spain.

    5. Programming languages, scientific research, etc, require English language ability. So I don't see how this can be avoided.

    1. In Russia, there is imported all the Western ideas and political concepts, but without the Western immune system (or antivirus program) for them.

    What “Western immune system” are you talking about?

    4. Within Europe, there is no uniform correlation between English language ability and liberalism. Spain is one of the most radical liberal countries in social policy, while at the same time their English level is quite low.

    Backlash against the previous right-wing rule.
    If you remove that, how much liberalism would remain?

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    What “Western immune system” are you talking about?

     

    The culture which develops crazy programs in-house, also develops the best response.

    SJW is several years old, but the response is already developing from within the anglosaxon culture that creates it: https://twitter.com/TitaniaMcGrath

    For a longer-view, we can see how the best anti-virus to German-written Marxism, developed from German-speaking writers.

    Hayek, Popper, Mises (the latter proposed the economic calculation problem in 1920), were all German-speaking writers.

    Unfortunately, the most complete "anti-virus" for Marxism was developed (in the German language) only so late afterwards - and our system was exposed during the intermediate delay.


    Backlash against the previous right-wing rule.
    If you remove that, how much liberalism would remain?
     
    It's not product of "backlash" though.

    If not for Franco, they would simply have become liberal a decade earlier (in the 1960s).

    I have a few Spanish (or Catalan, Basque) colleagues, and (although I would avoid any political talking) they are the most liberal people politically and socially I have listened to parts of what they say, and their attitude to lifestyle and socializing reflects this. This is something deep, and not from experience of their parents or grandparents - but more like the underlying worldview.

    In the late years of Franco, Spain already had a liberal culture below the government layer, which is why the transition of their culture was so much more smooth than observers had expected, and why the liberal culture emerged almost maturely in the transition epoch itself.

    Something like "The Madrid Scene" from 1975, was simply the 1960s in London and Paris, but delayed by about 10 years.

  99. @Mitleser

    1. In Russia, there is imported all the Western ideas and political concepts, but without the Western immune system (or antivirus program) for them.
     
    What "Western immune system" are you talking about?

    4. Within Europe, there is no uniform correlation between English language ability and liberalism. Spain is one of the most radical liberal countries in social policy, while at the same time their English level is quite low.
     
    Backlash against the previous right-wing rule.
    If you remove that, how much liberalism would remain?

    What “Western immune system” are you talking about?

    The culture which develops crazy programs in-house, also develops the best response.

    SJW is several years old, but the response is already developing from within the anglosaxon culture that creates it: https://twitter.com/TitaniaMcGrath

    For a longer-view, we can see how the best anti-virus to German-written Marxism, developed from German-speaking writers.

    Hayek, Popper, Mises (the latter proposed the economic calculation problem in 1920), were all German-speaking writers.

    Unfortunately, the most complete “anti-virus” for Marxism was developed (in the German language) only so late afterwards – and our system was exposed during the intermediate delay.

    Backlash against the previous right-wing rule.
    If you remove that, how much liberalism would remain?

    It’s not product of “backlash” though.

    If not for Franco, they would simply have become liberal a decade earlier (in the 1960s).

    I have a few Spanish (or Catalan, Basque) colleagues, and (although I would avoid any political talking) they are the most liberal people politically and socially I have listened to parts of what they say, and their attitude to lifestyle and socializing reflects this. This is something deep, and not from experience of their parents or grandparents – but more like the underlying worldview.

    In the late years of Franco, Spain already had a liberal culture below the government layer, which is why the transition of their culture was so much more smooth than observers had expected, and why the liberal culture emerged almost maturely in the transition epoch itself.

    Something like “The Madrid Scene” from 1975, was simply the 1960s in London and Paris, but delayed by about 10 years.

  100. @Dmitry
    Yes - I think you are correct here. .

    For example, Denmark legalized "civil partnership" (between same-sex) in 1989. In Sweden, in 1995. In Germany, in 2001.

    Full "gay marriage" is established first in Netherlands in 2000 and in Belgium in 2003.

    In America, "gay marriage" is only then arriving years later, with the end of the Obama epoch, in 2015 (and "civil partnership" was never accepted).

    Whether you feel it is an important issue or not (I think not very important), Europe was called "Gayropa", with some reality, and the view on this topic is symptomatic of many other more important topics.

    (and “civil partnership” was never accepted).

    From Wikipedia, recognition of civil unions:

    Hawaii (1997)
    City of New York City (1998)
    California (1999)
    District of Columbia (2002)
    Maine (2004)
    New Jersey (2004)
    Washington (2007)
    Maryland (2008)
    Oregon (2008)
    Colorado (2009)
    Nevada (2009)
    Illinois (2011)

    But I think official ‘gay marriage’ is the most important marker, because of its symbolic significance to both its proponents (‘civil unions’ are seen as a lesser status) and opponents and because otherwise Hungary, which allows civil unions but constitutionally forbid same-sex marriage, would have to be included.

    From America, state legalisation of homosexual marriage was a gradual process from 2004 up to 2015.

    In Western Europe:

    Netherlands – 2001
    Belgium – 2003
    Spain – 2005
    Sweden – 2009
    Norway – 2009
    Portugal – 2010
    Iceland – 2010
    Denmark – 2012
    France – 2013
    UK – 2014
    Ireland – 2015
    Luxembourg – 2015
    Finland – 2017
    Malta – 2017
    Germany – 2017
    Austria – 2019

    Whether you feel it is an important issue or not (I think not very important), Europe was called “Gayropa”, with some reality, and the view on this topic is symptomatic of many other more important topics.

    Americans have different ideas of what it means to be ‘left-wing’ or ‘right-wing’, so naturally analysing issues like abortion or gun rights from will produce a flawed perspective.

    Aside from the fact that American institutions spend a lot of effort on agitation in Europe, the fact that European liberals all ape liberal, ruling Americans (like the nonsensical ‘white nationalist’ insult above) show that the influence here goes primarily west to east, not east to east across the ocean.

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    From America, state legalisation of homosexual marriage was a gradual process from 2004 up to 2015.
     
    Some states in America experimented to introduce civil unions, but I imagine it doesn't have a strong legal status because of the federal legal superstructure.

    It's only with the late epoch of Obama, that gay marriage could pass. Obama passes at the end of the second term, when he does not require crossover votes for reelection.

    During election in 2008, Obama says he opposes it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=criiu2h3ZAk


    Americans have different ideas of what it means to be ‘left-wing’ or ‘right-wing’, so naturally
     
    In social views, America is more conservative in net terms.

    There is a liberal social side and a conservative social one. In Western Europe, there is mainly a consensus of liberalism in social life - it is liberal side and a slightly less liberal side, in these topics (this is not referring to economic and immigration views, which can even combine with social liberalism in Europe e.g. Pim Fortuyn).

    So, for example, in America there is Fox News and CNN. Fox News is quite conservative, while CNN is ultra liberal.

    Now compare television in the UK - all television channels are like CNN in their social attitude to peoples' lifestyle.

    Sure, there are economic conservatives in countries like the UK, but socially there is the liberal consensus.


    American institutions
     
    If you look the American universities, many fields are now very influenced by French philosophers since the 1980s.

    This evident even in writing style - the intersectional and postcolonial writing in English, is grammatically like a translation from French.

    See for example, Homi Bhaba
    http://www.ricorso.net/rx/library/criticism/guest/Bhabha_H.htm

    Although it is English written, it just reminds me of trying to read French. The reason is - his "ideas" are based in imported writings which were originally written in French.

    So there is cultural interchange at the "high" level.


    European liberals all ape liberal, ruling Americans
     
    I agree. But there is still a lot of two-way interchange.

    On the other hand, in the metropolis, bourgeois Americans also "ape" European bourgeoisie.

    I think AaronB (who lives in New York?) copied my ideas in this topic again (like he copied my ideas about Japan) - but he said about Eataly

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWMxLbESlzg


    like abortion or gun rights from will produce a flawed perspective.
     
    The culture which is less globalized and integrated is conservative American culture, from outside the metropolis.

    Conservative half of America, is not really exported, except as a comical content for American television series and films (the Simpsons was originally joking about this kind of small provincial America, and is massively exported, but from a comical view).

    Lack of exportation of conservative America, is of course result of lack of demand. Western Europeans don't want to import bear hunting, Fox News, bluegrass music - this is all considered as the "ugly side of America" for any European bourgeoisie.

    So what I observe is cultural interchange between American metropolis (New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco) and Western Europe.

    At same time, there is quite a lot of isolation and demonization of the American conservative half of the country, which is primarily in the American provinces.

    Even in California, when you drive away from the sea, there is rapidly a provincial America which is nothing like Western Europe culturally.

    -

    Above also relates to Butina even though she is not relevant to Western Europe. Butina was an unusual character "aping" the conservative half of America, and this is a contributer to the hostility she is having in the American liberal media.

    The irony is Butina herself, in her thought, was a bit similar to Navalny - who is supported by the American media simply because he opposes Putin.

    I just read a funny article by Navalny, where he was arguing we need to imitate American style surburbs, spreading into the countryside, and stop living in apartments.


    -

    By the way in other thread I just read you posted something interesting

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk_VszbZa_s

    This is only real situation where "Putin has influenced American elections".

    Several years later, in 2007, Obama's PR machine copied the original idea of Putin's PR machine - just adding big breasts to make it more effective:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKsoXHYICqU
     
     
     

  101. @Toronto Russian

    I love criticism, don’t worry. The more and the harsher the better.
     
    That's nice.

    The theory of a black population's innate inability of holding its act together is refuted by Namibia. Your Twitter opponents could just post videos from there and be much more convincing than with what they do now.

    https://youtu.be/8aYK2PfKFWM

    This clip is 15 minutes of driving by pristine graffiti-free walls and roadsides not "adorned" by scattered garbage*. There are signs of poverty like makeshift market stalls, but you can see civilized-looking bridges over ditches and clean new cars. Stats say Namibia is an upper middle income country, and it's winning against the AIDS epidemic. How would an HBDist explain the difference from the disfunctional life of their genetic cousins in South Africa? Too bad this country is usually forgotten, being tiny (2.6 million) and not making news.

    *In contrast to this, Despacito music video shows garbage heaps on the shore of Puerto Rico (that has a racially mixed population) - they couldn't even clean it up for the filming or find a clean spot!

    Keep in mind around 6% of Namibians (as in natives, citizens) are white. Around 2/3 of them Afrikaners and 1/3 of them leftover Germans. Namibia isn’t exactly a black nation.

    While that neighborhood is definitely a black township, having a 6% white minority that you are on decent terms with (unlike the toxic, hysterical racial hostilities in South Africa), can do wonders for the community.

    • Replies: @Toronto Russian
    So it's cultural/political. It's not like the Germans shared their genes with the locals. They've always kept to themselves and are still in soft segregation mode according to travelers who meet them. Ordnung is a meme not a gene (the parts of ex-Yugoslavia that used to be in the Germanic cultural sphere are also more tidy than your usual Balkans)... the Ovambo came to want it and put effort into it. Lol even Zimbabweans can when they want to, as per Dmitry's video. At least something about their country isn't a trainwreck.
  102. @Anonymous
    I think the other commenter is right that English language skills are a gateway to Americanization of national politics; this may partly explain why the high-IQ, developed, and very pro-American Japan has almost totally avoided this process. I also think historical attitudes towards the US play a role; Germany seems a little more resistant to at least some aspects of this process (e.g. gay marriage only legalized in 2017, and I've been told that #MeToo has been kind of a dud there), and I think their latent distrust of America plays a role in that. Mix widespread English fluency with historically pro-American politics and you have a recipe for disaster (I'm looking at you, Sweden).

    I think Poland’s fluency in English, almost at the level of Sweden except they imitate British accents, plus its pro-American attitude, largely because it got pinned down for 40 years by the Sovoks and preceded by division by German, Austro-Hungarian, and Russian forces, will eventually do it in as a neoliberalism.txt immigrant-heavy country.

    On the other hand, Serbian youth are becoming just as fluent in English, but they seem to be resisting, and Romania is also nowhere near as far as Poland in neoliberalism.txt, with even better English skills. But Serbia has the “advantage” of getting bombed into smithereens back into stone age by NATO just 20 years ago, and Romania has the advantage of Italy-oriented immigration and Spanish/Latin-influenced entertainment.

    Poland on the other hand is Russophobic AND Germanphobic combined with being UK-oriented in immigration and has Anglo-influenced entertainment. This is a recipe for eventual disaster.

  103. @utu
    "Consequently, there is absolutely no logical argument any more against mass Third World immigration apart from HBD."

    The HBD BS will never gain any traction. So one may wonder why some people who claim that they are against globalization and mass people movements keep yapping about it. A secret fifth column?

    Anti-immigration argument can be built on three points: (1) Economy: quality of life, wages, (2) Cultural identity, (3) Ecology: zero population growth. These three point are palatable to both left and right.

    Anti-immigration argument can be built on three points: (1) Economy: quality of life, wages, (2) Cultural identity, (3) Ecology: zero population growth. These three point are palatable to both left and right.

    This has been done. All three of them, even in combination. E.g. the Swiss People’s Party has been using all three together. They even added democracy when fighting the EU: they explained that unlike in other European countries where the EU bureaucracy just replaced the national bureaucracy and EU politicians the national politicians, in the case of Switzerland the plebiscites (and so the direct democratic power of the people) would be replaced by the Brussels bureaucrats. They had some limited success, but Switzerland continues to be overrun by immigrants.

    So basically what you advocate for is a policy of failure.

    • Replies: @utu
    Policy failure? Actually they have some successes with three referenda: (1) Minarets, (2) The expulsion of criminal foreigners, (3) Against mass immigration. I wonder what would they accomplish if they had monomaniacal IQist nitwits in charger like yourself pushing the HBD program.
  104. @reiner Tor

    Anti-immigration argument can be built on three points: (1) Economy: quality of life, wages, (2) Cultural identity, (3) Ecology: zero population growth. These three point are palatable to both left and right.
     
    This has been done. All three of them, even in combination. E.g. the Swiss People’s Party has been using all three together. They even added democracy when fighting the EU: they explained that unlike in other European countries where the EU bureaucracy just replaced the national bureaucracy and EU politicians the national politicians, in the case of Switzerland the plebiscites (and so the direct democratic power of the people) would be replaced by the Brussels bureaucrats. They had some limited success, but Switzerland continues to be overrun by immigrants.

    So basically what you advocate for is a policy of failure.

    Policy failure? Actually they have some successes with three referenda: (1) Minarets, (2) The expulsion of criminal foreigners, (3) Against mass immigration. I wonder what would they accomplish if they had monomaniacal IQist nitwits in charger like yourself pushing the HBD program.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Your New Age mumbo-jumbo with the AaronB moniker makes more sense than that.

    (1) Minarets,
     
    A symbolic issue of zero practical value.

    (2) The expulsion of criminal foreigners,
     
    Which was basically rejected in the form SVP wanted to.

    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eidgen%C3%B6ssische_Volksinitiative_%C2%ABZur_Durchsetzung_der_Ausschaffung_krimineller_Ausl%C3%A4nder_(Durchsetzungsinitiative)%C2%BB

    Anyway it means nothing when almost half of the Swiss population is already being of "migration background." The replacement of the native Swiss continues apace, while cuckservatives like yourself applaud the Swiss for being "tough" on immigration.


    (3) Against mass immigration.
     
    Yet still the population growth is something like 0.5-1% annually, due to mass migration.

    But like a good cuckservative, you are always enthusiastic to attack to the right, to attack race realists:


    we the compassionate nationalists believe that Okuspearchuckers can develop their countries and possibly in the future with some help from more developed countries which will be gladly provided by us, partly to compensate the unjust white privilege, the countries of the Okuspearchuckers will reach our level. To prove that we mean it and that we are saying it in a good faith we will round up and place in the rehab centers all propagandists professing that this is impossible on the account of hateful IQ and HBD false theories. The proscriptions list are being prepared as we speak. We will be getting to the letter K soon.
     
    I'm pretty sure punching right is your favorite activity.

    Do you have some sound advice about what to do about Jews? Will you also create a non-anti-Semitic program for Israel and the Jews? For tactical reasons, of course.


    the HBD program
     
    There is no "HBD program," since HBD is a worldview, not a program. It's just a question of what is or what is not reality.

    However, when you start denying reality, you can easily find yourself in situations where you cannot answer certain dishonest questions. Like, if blacks are equally talented as whites, then why don't they have the same income levels? Or if whites are equally aggressive, why do blacks more often find themselves in prison?

    The people asking the question have a ready-made answer: it's racism. I guess while rounding up Cochran, Sailer, Karlin, and others, you will gleefully agree with them. So you won't be able to argue against some kind of compensation for the victims of racism, like affirmative action and gibsmedats. You will also - like other cuckservatives - have to constantly defend yourself against accusations of "dog whistles," or some "hidden racist agenda," or something similar.

    I hope you will be able to answer with some witty quote from Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

    Look, I don't have a good political program. But unlike you, cuckservatives, I don't pretend that I do.

  105. @Hyperborean

    (and “civil partnership” was never accepted).
     
    From Wikipedia, recognition of civil unions:


    Hawaii (1997)
    City of New York City (1998)
    California (1999)
    District of Columbia (2002)
    Maine (2004)
    New Jersey (2004)
    Washington (2007)
    Maryland (2008)
    Oregon (2008)
    Colorado (2009)
    Nevada (2009)
    Illinois (2011)

     

    But I think official 'gay marriage' is the most important marker, because of its symbolic significance to both its proponents ('civil unions' are seen as a lesser status) and opponents and because otherwise Hungary, which allows civil unions but constitutionally forbid same-sex marriage, would have to be included.

    From America, state legalisation of homosexual marriage was a gradual process from 2004 up to 2015.

    In Western Europe:

    Netherlands - 2001
    Belgium - 2003
    Spain - 2005
    Sweden - 2009
    Norway - 2009
    Portugal - 2010
    Iceland - 2010
    Denmark - 2012
    France - 2013
    UK - 2014
    Ireland - 2015
    Luxembourg - 2015
    Finland - 2017
    Malta - 2017
    Germany - 2017
    Austria - 2019

    Whether you feel it is an important issue or not (I think not very important), Europe was called “Gayropa”, with some reality, and the view on this topic is symptomatic of many other more important topics.
     
    Americans have different ideas of what it means to be 'left-wing' or 'right-wing', so naturally analysing issues like abortion or gun rights from will produce a flawed perspective.

    Aside from the fact that American institutions spend a lot of effort on agitation in Europe, the fact that European liberals all ape liberal, ruling Americans (like the nonsensical 'white nationalist' insult above) show that the influence here goes primarily west to east, not east to east across the ocean.

    From America, state legalisation of homosexual marriage was a gradual process from 2004 up to 2015.

    Some states in America experimented to introduce civil unions, but I imagine it doesn’t have a strong legal status because of the federal legal superstructure.

    It’s only with the late epoch of Obama, that gay marriage could pass. Obama passes at the end of the second term, when he does not require crossover votes for reelection.

    During election in 2008, Obama says he opposes it.

    Americans have different ideas of what it means to be ‘left-wing’ or ‘right-wing’, so naturally

    In social views, America is more conservative in net terms.

    There is a liberal social side and a conservative social one. In Western Europe, there is mainly a consensus of liberalism in social life – it is liberal side and a slightly less liberal side, in these topics (this is not referring to economic and immigration views, which can even combine with social liberalism in Europe e.g. Pim Fortuyn).

    So, for example, in America there is Fox News and CNN. Fox News is quite conservative, while CNN is ultra liberal.

    Now compare television in the UK – all television channels are like CNN in their social attitude to peoples’ lifestyle.

    Sure, there are economic conservatives in countries like the UK, but socially there is the liberal consensus.

    American institutions

    If you look the American universities, many fields are now very influenced by French philosophers since the 1980s.

    This evident even in writing style – the intersectional and postcolonial writing in English, is grammatically like a translation from French.

    See for example, Homi Bhaba
    http://www.ricorso.net/rx/library/criticism/guest/Bhabha_H.htm

    Although it is English written, it just reminds me of trying to read French. The reason is – his “ideas” are based in imported writings which were originally written in French.

    So there is cultural interchange at the “high” level.

    European liberals all ape liberal, ruling Americans

    I agree. But there is still a lot of two-way interchange.

    On the other hand, in the metropolis, bourgeois Americans also “ape” European bourgeoisie.

    I think AaronB (who lives in New York?) copied my ideas in this topic again (like he copied my ideas about Japan) – but he said about Eataly

    like abortion or gun rights from will produce a flawed perspective.

    The culture which is less globalized and integrated is conservative American culture, from outside the metropolis.

    Conservative half of America, is not really exported, except as a comical content for American television series and films (the Simpsons was originally joking about this kind of small provincial America, and is massively exported, but from a comical view).

    Lack of exportation of conservative America, is of course result of lack of demand. Western Europeans don’t want to import bear hunting, Fox News, bluegrass music – this is all considered as the “ugly side of America” for any European bourgeoisie.

    So what I observe is cultural interchange between American metropolis (New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco) and Western Europe.

    At same time, there is quite a lot of isolation and demonization of the American conservative half of the country, which is primarily in the American provinces.

    Even in California, when you drive away from the sea, there is rapidly a provincial America which is nothing like Western Europe culturally.

    Above also relates to Butina even though she is not relevant to Western Europe. Butina was an unusual character “aping” the conservative half of America, and this is a contributer to the hostility she is having in the American liberal media.

    The irony is Butina herself, in her thought, was a bit similar to Navalny – who is supported by the American media simply because he opposes Putin.

    I just read a funny article by Navalny, where he was arguing we need to imitate American style surburbs, spreading into the countryside, and stop living in apartments.

    By the way in other thread I just read you posted something interesting

    This is only real situation where “Putin has influenced American elections”.

    Several years later, in 2007, Obama’s PR machine copied the original idea of Putin’s PR machine – just adding big breasts to make it more effective:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKsoXHYICqU

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
  106. @utu
    Policy failure? Actually they have some successes with three referenda: (1) Minarets, (2) The expulsion of criminal foreigners, (3) Against mass immigration. I wonder what would they accomplish if they had monomaniacal IQist nitwits in charger like yourself pushing the HBD program.

    Your New Age mumbo-jumbo with the AaronB moniker makes more sense than that.

    (1) Minarets,

    A symbolic issue of zero practical value.

    (2) The expulsion of criminal foreigners,

    Which was basically rejected in the form SVP wanted to.

    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eidgen%C3%B6ssische_Volksinitiative_%C2%ABZur_Durchsetzung_der_Ausschaffung_krimineller_Ausl%C3%A4nder_(Durchsetzungsinitiative)%C2%BB

    Anyway it means nothing when almost half of the Swiss population is already being of “migration background.” The replacement of the native Swiss continues apace, while cuckservatives like yourself applaud the Swiss for being “tough” on immigration.

    (3) Against mass immigration.

    Yet still the population growth is something like 0.5-1% annually, due to mass migration.

    But like a good cuckservative, you are always enthusiastic to attack to the right, to attack race realists:

    we the compassionate nationalists believe that Okuspearchuckers can develop their countries and possibly in the future with some help from more developed countries which will be gladly provided by us, partly to compensate the unjust white privilege, the countries of the Okuspearchuckers will reach our level. To prove that we mean it and that we are saying it in a good faith we will round up and place in the rehab centers all propagandists professing that this is impossible on the account of hateful IQ and HBD false theories. The proscriptions list are being prepared as we speak. We will be getting to the letter K soon.

    I’m pretty sure punching right is your favorite activity.

    Do you have some sound advice about what to do about Jews? Will you also create a non-anti-Semitic program for Israel and the Jews? For tactical reasons, of course.

    the HBD program

    There is no “HBD program,” since HBD is a worldview, not a program. It’s just a question of what is or what is not reality.

    However, when you start denying reality, you can easily find yourself in situations where you cannot answer certain dishonest questions. Like, if blacks are equally talented as whites, then why don’t they have the same income levels? Or if whites are equally aggressive, why do blacks more often find themselves in prison?

    The people asking the question have a ready-made answer: it’s racism. I guess while rounding up Cochran, Sailer, Karlin, and others, you will gleefully agree with them. So you won’t be able to argue against some kind of compensation for the victims of racism, like affirmative action and gibsmedats. You will also – like other cuckservatives – have to constantly defend yourself against accusations of “dog whistles,” or some “hidden racist agenda,” or something similar.

    I hope you will be able to answer with some witty quote from Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

    Look, I don’t have a good political program. But unlike you, cuckservatives, I don’t pretend that I do.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Ender
    A bad plan is still better than no plan at all.
    , @for-the-record
    when almost half of the Swiss population is already being of “migration background.”

    I found this hard to believe when I read it, so I checked the official statistics, and for aged 15 and over it was 37.2% in 2017, so perhaps for overall population it really is close to 50%.

    https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/en/home/statistics/population/migration-integration/by-migration-status.html
    , @utu
    I don’t have a good political program - Sure, you don't because you are a wanker. Jerking off is not productive. Wasting your energy in echo chambers of race and IQ Onanists will not produce a political program. Perhaps this the the purpose of these echo chambers.

    The only hope to stop immigration is some sort of populist movement. For it you need to attract people to the left of your position whether they are cucks or leftists. The HBDism and IQism will only turn them off. Insisting on it means you do not want a solution which is de facto a role of the fifth column.

    I posted a comment suggesting that for Europeans and Germans in particular a program based on anti-Americanism should be tried. It may have a chance of getting some traction unlike HBDism and IQism which have a zero chance of accomplishing anything.

    http://www.unz.com/ldinh/heart-of-darkness-germany/#comment-3040960
    Europeans and Germans especially should use anti-American sentiments in their fight against the immigration. There is no laws against being anti-American in Germany yet.

    Make the message not about Germany being German but about Germany and Europe not becoming America.

    [...]

    You can stop immigration only if you attract more people to your movement. Your message must be palatable and attractive to them. You can’t turn them off with racism because they were so strongly conditioned against it that they behave like Pavlovian dogs when they hear anything remotely linked to racism or anti-semitism.

    To attract people from the left to your side you must make your cause about going against the system, against the capitalism, against the neoliberalism and against the economic injustice. Do not concentrate on immigrants how stupid, ugly and bad they are but on the powers that bring them in. Do not fall into the trap of stupid American alt-right that profess IQism and HBDism by people like Sailer, Karlin, Derbyshire on this site. They actually might be the useful idiots or the fifth column of the neoliberal system.
     
    almost half of the Swiss population is already being of “migration background.” - fortunately it is predominantly European. The largest groups are German, Italian, Portuguese and French.

    In 2013 there were a total of 1,937,447 permanent residents (23.8% of the total population of 8.14 million) in Switzerland. Of these, 1.65 million resident foreigners (85.0%, or 20.2% of the 8.14 Million total population[18][19]), had European citizenship (Italian: 298,875; German: 292,291; Portuguese: 253,227; French: 110,103; Serbian: 90,704; Kosovan: 86,976; Spanish: 75,333, Macedonian: 62,633; British: 40,898; Austrian: 39,494; Bosnian and Herzegovinian: 33,002; Croatian: 30,471). From other continents; 122,941 residents were from Asia; 83,873 from Africa; 78,433 from the Americas; and 4,145 from Oceania.
     
    So there is 6.3% from Asia, 4.3% from Africa and 4% from Americas. The rest (85%) are Europeans.
  107. I remember that Такого как Путин song back when it came out. I think I still have it in my music library.

  108. @AquariusAnon
    Keep in mind around 6% of Namibians (as in natives, citizens) are white. Around 2/3 of them Afrikaners and 1/3 of them leftover Germans. Namibia isn't exactly a black nation.

    While that neighborhood is definitely a black township, having a 6% white minority that you are on decent terms with (unlike the toxic, hysterical racial hostilities in South Africa), can do wonders for the community.

    So it’s cultural/political. It’s not like the Germans shared their genes with the locals. They’ve always kept to themselves and are still in soft segregation mode according to travelers who meet them. Ordnung is a meme not a gene (the parts of ex-Yugoslavia that used to be in the Germanic cultural sphere are also more tidy than your usual Balkans)… the Ovambo came to want it and put effort into it. Lol even Zimbabweans can when they want to, as per Dmitry’s video. At least something about their country isn’t a trainwreck.

  109. @reiner Tor
    Your New Age mumbo-jumbo with the AaronB moniker makes more sense than that.

    (1) Minarets,
     
    A symbolic issue of zero practical value.

    (2) The expulsion of criminal foreigners,
     
    Which was basically rejected in the form SVP wanted to.

    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eidgen%C3%B6ssische_Volksinitiative_%C2%ABZur_Durchsetzung_der_Ausschaffung_krimineller_Ausl%C3%A4nder_(Durchsetzungsinitiative)%C2%BB

    Anyway it means nothing when almost half of the Swiss population is already being of "migration background." The replacement of the native Swiss continues apace, while cuckservatives like yourself applaud the Swiss for being "tough" on immigration.


    (3) Against mass immigration.
     
    Yet still the population growth is something like 0.5-1% annually, due to mass migration.

    But like a good cuckservative, you are always enthusiastic to attack to the right, to attack race realists:


    we the compassionate nationalists believe that Okuspearchuckers can develop their countries and possibly in the future with some help from more developed countries which will be gladly provided by us, partly to compensate the unjust white privilege, the countries of the Okuspearchuckers will reach our level. To prove that we mean it and that we are saying it in a good faith we will round up and place in the rehab centers all propagandists professing that this is impossible on the account of hateful IQ and HBD false theories. The proscriptions list are being prepared as we speak. We will be getting to the letter K soon.
     
    I'm pretty sure punching right is your favorite activity.

    Do you have some sound advice about what to do about Jews? Will you also create a non-anti-Semitic program for Israel and the Jews? For tactical reasons, of course.


    the HBD program
     
    There is no "HBD program," since HBD is a worldview, not a program. It's just a question of what is or what is not reality.

    However, when you start denying reality, you can easily find yourself in situations where you cannot answer certain dishonest questions. Like, if blacks are equally talented as whites, then why don't they have the same income levels? Or if whites are equally aggressive, why do blacks more often find themselves in prison?

    The people asking the question have a ready-made answer: it's racism. I guess while rounding up Cochran, Sailer, Karlin, and others, you will gleefully agree with them. So you won't be able to argue against some kind of compensation for the victims of racism, like affirmative action and gibsmedats. You will also - like other cuckservatives - have to constantly defend yourself against accusations of "dog whistles," or some "hidden racist agenda," or something similar.

    I hope you will be able to answer with some witty quote from Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

    Look, I don't have a good political program. But unlike you, cuckservatives, I don't pretend that I do.

    A bad plan is still better than no plan at all.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    If it boils down to "attack fiercely race realist right wingers"? Sure, dude, that must be a very good "nationalist" plan.
    , @utu

    A bad plan is still better than no plan at all.
     
    Here is a plan to get some sort of populist movement going in Europe.

    http://www.unz.com/ldinh/heart-of-darkness-germany/#comment-3040960
    Europeans and Germans especially should use anti-American sentiments in their fight against the immigration. There is no laws against being anti-American in Germany yet.

    Why America is so fucked up? Because they have no social cohesion and solidarity.
     

    Why Americans are so easily manipulated by their media and neoliberal oligarchy. Because they have low social cohesion and solidarity as a country of immigrants.
     

    Why do the powers that be want immigrants and minorities? Because ruling people is so much easier when you can divide them.
     

    Why do the powers that be love immigrants? Because they like cheap labor that will replace you.
     

    We don’t want to become dysfunctional America!
     

    Save Europe from becoming America. There is still time. Stop immigration now.
     
    Make the message not about Germany being German but about Germany and Europe not becoming America.

    You can stop immigration only if you attract more people to your movement. Your message must be palatable and attractive to them. You can’t turn them off with racism because they were so strongly conditioned against it that they behave like Pavlovian dogs when they hear anything remotely linked to racism or anti-semitism.

    To attract people from the left to your side you must make your cause about going against the system, against the capitalism, against the neoliberalism and against the economic injustice. Do not concentrate on immigrants how stupid, ugly and bad they are but on the powers that bring them in. Do not fall into the trap of stupid American alt-right that profess IQism and HBDism by people like Sailer, Karlin, Derbyshire on this site. They actually might be the useful idiots or the fifth column of the neoliberal system.
     

  110. @Ender
    A bad plan is still better than no plan at all.

    If it boils down to “attack fiercely race realist right wingers”? Sure, dude, that must be a very good “nationalist” plan.

  111. @reiner Tor
    Your New Age mumbo-jumbo with the AaronB moniker makes more sense than that.

    (1) Minarets,
     
    A symbolic issue of zero practical value.

    (2) The expulsion of criminal foreigners,
     
    Which was basically rejected in the form SVP wanted to.

    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eidgen%C3%B6ssische_Volksinitiative_%C2%ABZur_Durchsetzung_der_Ausschaffung_krimineller_Ausl%C3%A4nder_(Durchsetzungsinitiative)%C2%BB

    Anyway it means nothing when almost half of the Swiss population is already being of "migration background." The replacement of the native Swiss continues apace, while cuckservatives like yourself applaud the Swiss for being "tough" on immigration.


    (3) Against mass immigration.
     
    Yet still the population growth is something like 0.5-1% annually, due to mass migration.

    But like a good cuckservative, you are always enthusiastic to attack to the right, to attack race realists:


    we the compassionate nationalists believe that Okuspearchuckers can develop their countries and possibly in the future with some help from more developed countries which will be gladly provided by us, partly to compensate the unjust white privilege, the countries of the Okuspearchuckers will reach our level. To prove that we mean it and that we are saying it in a good faith we will round up and place in the rehab centers all propagandists professing that this is impossible on the account of hateful IQ and HBD false theories. The proscriptions list are being prepared as we speak. We will be getting to the letter K soon.
     
    I'm pretty sure punching right is your favorite activity.

    Do you have some sound advice about what to do about Jews? Will you also create a non-anti-Semitic program for Israel and the Jews? For tactical reasons, of course.


    the HBD program
     
    There is no "HBD program," since HBD is a worldview, not a program. It's just a question of what is or what is not reality.

    However, when you start denying reality, you can easily find yourself in situations where you cannot answer certain dishonest questions. Like, if blacks are equally talented as whites, then why don't they have the same income levels? Or if whites are equally aggressive, why do blacks more often find themselves in prison?

    The people asking the question have a ready-made answer: it's racism. I guess while rounding up Cochran, Sailer, Karlin, and others, you will gleefully agree with them. So you won't be able to argue against some kind of compensation for the victims of racism, like affirmative action and gibsmedats. You will also - like other cuckservatives - have to constantly defend yourself against accusations of "dog whistles," or some "hidden racist agenda," or something similar.

    I hope you will be able to answer with some witty quote from Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

    Look, I don't have a good political program. But unlike you, cuckservatives, I don't pretend that I do.

    when almost half of the Swiss population is already being of “migration background.”

    I found this hard to believe when I read it, so I checked the official statistics, and for aged 15 and over it was 37.2% in 2017, so perhaps for overall population it really is close to 50%.

    https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/en/home/statistics/population/migration-integration/by-migration-status.html

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I had in mind "roughly 40%, growing by at least 0.5% annually, is already close to half." SVP really tries to educate, I have seen some of their leaflets showing how the original Swiss population stopped growing a decade or two ago, and is now stagnating or even dropping, while the total Swiss population (including immigrants) kept growing fast. The end result by the end of the century would be a Swiss population with a solid migrant majority. Of course, more sophisticated Swiss don't take this seriously, because, you know, no serious person thinks in those terms. It might even be racist.

    Anyway, does 37% sound like an enormous success story to you, if we are talking about "which country was successful in stopping mass migration?"

  112. @for-the-record
    when almost half of the Swiss population is already being of “migration background.”

    I found this hard to believe when I read it, so I checked the official statistics, and for aged 15 and over it was 37.2% in 2017, so perhaps for overall population it really is close to 50%.

    https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/en/home/statistics/population/migration-integration/by-migration-status.html

    I had in mind “roughly 40%, growing by at least 0.5% annually, is already close to half.” SVP really tries to educate, I have seen some of their leaflets showing how the original Swiss population stopped growing a decade or two ago, and is now stagnating or even dropping, while the total Swiss population (including immigrants) kept growing fast. The end result by the end of the century would be a Swiss population with a solid migrant majority. Of course, more sophisticated Swiss don’t take this seriously, because, you know, no serious person thinks in those terms. It might even be racist.

    Anyway, does 37% sound like an enormous success story to you, if we are talking about “which country was successful in stopping mass migration?”

  113. @reiner Tor
    Your New Age mumbo-jumbo with the AaronB moniker makes more sense than that.

    (1) Minarets,
     
    A symbolic issue of zero practical value.

    (2) The expulsion of criminal foreigners,
     
    Which was basically rejected in the form SVP wanted to.

    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eidgen%C3%B6ssische_Volksinitiative_%C2%ABZur_Durchsetzung_der_Ausschaffung_krimineller_Ausl%C3%A4nder_(Durchsetzungsinitiative)%C2%BB

    Anyway it means nothing when almost half of the Swiss population is already being of "migration background." The replacement of the native Swiss continues apace, while cuckservatives like yourself applaud the Swiss for being "tough" on immigration.


    (3) Against mass immigration.
     
    Yet still the population growth is something like 0.5-1% annually, due to mass migration.

    But like a good cuckservative, you are always enthusiastic to attack to the right, to attack race realists:


    we the compassionate nationalists believe that Okuspearchuckers can develop their countries and possibly in the future with some help from more developed countries which will be gladly provided by us, partly to compensate the unjust white privilege, the countries of the Okuspearchuckers will reach our level. To prove that we mean it and that we are saying it in a good faith we will round up and place in the rehab centers all propagandists professing that this is impossible on the account of hateful IQ and HBD false theories. The proscriptions list are being prepared as we speak. We will be getting to the letter K soon.
     
    I'm pretty sure punching right is your favorite activity.

    Do you have some sound advice about what to do about Jews? Will you also create a non-anti-Semitic program for Israel and the Jews? For tactical reasons, of course.


    the HBD program
     
    There is no "HBD program," since HBD is a worldview, not a program. It's just a question of what is or what is not reality.

    However, when you start denying reality, you can easily find yourself in situations where you cannot answer certain dishonest questions. Like, if blacks are equally talented as whites, then why don't they have the same income levels? Or if whites are equally aggressive, why do blacks more often find themselves in prison?

    The people asking the question have a ready-made answer: it's racism. I guess while rounding up Cochran, Sailer, Karlin, and others, you will gleefully agree with them. So you won't be able to argue against some kind of compensation for the victims of racism, like affirmative action and gibsmedats. You will also - like other cuckservatives - have to constantly defend yourself against accusations of "dog whistles," or some "hidden racist agenda," or something similar.

    I hope you will be able to answer with some witty quote from Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

    Look, I don't have a good political program. But unlike you, cuckservatives, I don't pretend that I do.

    I don’t have a good political program – Sure, you don’t because you are a wanker. Jerking off is not productive. Wasting your energy in echo chambers of race and IQ Onanists will not produce a political program. Perhaps this the the purpose of these echo chambers.

    The only hope to stop immigration is some sort of populist movement. For it you need to attract people to the left of your position whether they are cucks or leftists. The HBDism and IQism will only turn them off. Insisting on it means you do not want a solution which is de facto a role of the fifth column.

    I posted a comment suggesting that for Europeans and Germans in particular a program based on anti-Americanism should be tried. It may have a chance of getting some traction unlike HBDism and IQism which have a zero chance of accomplishing anything.

    http://www.unz.com/ldinh/heart-of-darkness-germany/#comment-3040960
    Europeans and Germans especially should use anti-American sentiments in their fight against the immigration. There is no laws against being anti-American in Germany yet.

    Make the message not about Germany being German but about Germany and Europe not becoming America.

    […]

    You can stop immigration only if you attract more people to your movement. Your message must be palatable and attractive to them. You can’t turn them off with racism because they were so strongly conditioned against it that they behave like Pavlovian dogs when they hear anything remotely linked to racism or anti-semitism.

    To attract people from the left to your side you must make your cause about going against the system, against the capitalism, against the neoliberalism and against the economic injustice. Do not concentrate on immigrants how stupid, ugly and bad they are but on the powers that bring them in. Do not fall into the trap of stupid American alt-right that profess IQism and HBDism by people like Sailer, Karlin, Derbyshire on this site. They actually might be the useful idiots or the fifth column of the neoliberal system.

    almost half of the Swiss population is already being of “migration background.” – fortunately it is predominantly European. The largest groups are German, Italian, Portuguese and French.

    In 2013 there were a total of 1,937,447 permanent residents (23.8% of the total population of 8.14 million) in Switzerland. Of these, 1.65 million resident foreigners (85.0%, or 20.2% of the 8.14 Million total population[18][19]), had European citizenship (Italian: 298,875; German: 292,291; Portuguese: 253,227; French: 110,103; Serbian: 90,704; Kosovan: 86,976; Spanish: 75,333, Macedonian: 62,633; British: 40,898; Austrian: 39,494; Bosnian and Herzegovinian: 33,002; Croatian: 30,471). From other continents; 122,941 residents were from Asia; 83,873 from Africa; 78,433 from the Americas; and 4,145 from Oceania.

    So there is 6.3% from Asia, 4.3% from Africa and 4% from Americas. The rest (85%) are Europeans.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    Wasting your energy in echo chambers of race and IQ Onanists
     
    So why are you here? Neither of your personas are needed here.

    The HBDism and IQism will only turn them off. Insisting on it means you do not want a solution
     
    I’m not insisting on it for politics. I’m insisting on it on an anonymous forum, because if we cannot even talk about reality anonymously, then there really is no hope. The big problem with populism is that it is nominally (and usually not just nominally) not based on HBD (i.e. reality), and so it is very easy to hijack or derail it. Politics not informed by HBD is usually like driving with the windshield covered. Basically blind.

    fortunately it is predominantly European
     
    So Switzerland is on track to become as diverse as the USA was a hundred years ago within a generation. So much for your genius “Europe is not America, we are organic nations” strategy. And this is a populist success story.
  114. @Ender
    A bad plan is still better than no plan at all.

    A bad plan is still better than no plan at all.

    Here is a plan to get some sort of populist movement going in Europe.

    http://www.unz.com/ldinh/heart-of-darkness-germany/#comment-3040960
    Europeans and Germans especially should use anti-American sentiments in their fight against the immigration. There is no laws against being anti-American in Germany yet.

    Why America is so fucked up? Because they have no social cohesion and solidarity.

    Why Americans are so easily manipulated by their media and neoliberal oligarchy. Because they have low social cohesion and solidarity as a country of immigrants.

    Why do the powers that be want immigrants and minorities? Because ruling people is so much easier when you can divide them.

    Why do the powers that be love immigrants? Because they like cheap labor that will replace you.

    We don’t want to become dysfunctional America!

    Save Europe from becoming America. There is still time. Stop immigration now.

    Make the message not about Germany being German but about Germany and Europe not becoming America.

    You can stop immigration only if you attract more people to your movement. Your message must be palatable and attractive to them. You can’t turn them off with racism because they were so strongly conditioned against it that they behave like Pavlovian dogs when they hear anything remotely linked to racism or anti-semitism.

    To attract people from the left to your side you must make your cause about going against the system, against the capitalism, against the neoliberalism and against the economic injustice. Do not concentrate on immigrants how stupid, ugly and bad they are but on the powers that bring them in. Do not fall into the trap of stupid American alt-right that profess IQism and HBDism by people like Sailer, Karlin, Derbyshire on this site. They actually might be the useful idiots or the fifth column of the neoliberal system.

  115. @utu
    I don’t have a good political program - Sure, you don't because you are a wanker. Jerking off is not productive. Wasting your energy in echo chambers of race and IQ Onanists will not produce a political program. Perhaps this the the purpose of these echo chambers.

    The only hope to stop immigration is some sort of populist movement. For it you need to attract people to the left of your position whether they are cucks or leftists. The HBDism and IQism will only turn them off. Insisting on it means you do not want a solution which is de facto a role of the fifth column.

    I posted a comment suggesting that for Europeans and Germans in particular a program based on anti-Americanism should be tried. It may have a chance of getting some traction unlike HBDism and IQism which have a zero chance of accomplishing anything.

    http://www.unz.com/ldinh/heart-of-darkness-germany/#comment-3040960
    Europeans and Germans especially should use anti-American sentiments in their fight against the immigration. There is no laws against being anti-American in Germany yet.

    Make the message not about Germany being German but about Germany and Europe not becoming America.

    [...]

    You can stop immigration only if you attract more people to your movement. Your message must be palatable and attractive to them. You can’t turn them off with racism because they were so strongly conditioned against it that they behave like Pavlovian dogs when they hear anything remotely linked to racism or anti-semitism.

    To attract people from the left to your side you must make your cause about going against the system, against the capitalism, against the neoliberalism and against the economic injustice. Do not concentrate on immigrants how stupid, ugly and bad they are but on the powers that bring them in. Do not fall into the trap of stupid American alt-right that profess IQism and HBDism by people like Sailer, Karlin, Derbyshire on this site. They actually might be the useful idiots or the fifth column of the neoliberal system.
     
    almost half of the Swiss population is already being of “migration background.” - fortunately it is predominantly European. The largest groups are German, Italian, Portuguese and French.

    In 2013 there were a total of 1,937,447 permanent residents (23.8% of the total population of 8.14 million) in Switzerland. Of these, 1.65 million resident foreigners (85.0%, or 20.2% of the 8.14 Million total population[18][19]), had European citizenship (Italian: 298,875; German: 292,291; Portuguese: 253,227; French: 110,103; Serbian: 90,704; Kosovan: 86,976; Spanish: 75,333, Macedonian: 62,633; British: 40,898; Austrian: 39,494; Bosnian and Herzegovinian: 33,002; Croatian: 30,471). From other continents; 122,941 residents were from Asia; 83,873 from Africa; 78,433 from the Americas; and 4,145 from Oceania.
     
    So there is 6.3% from Asia, 4.3% from Africa and 4% from Americas. The rest (85%) are Europeans.

    Wasting your energy in echo chambers of race and IQ Onanists

    So why are you here? Neither of your personas are needed here.

    The HBDism and IQism will only turn them off. Insisting on it means you do not want a solution

    I’m not insisting on it for politics. I’m insisting on it on an anonymous forum, because if we cannot even talk about reality anonymously, then there really is no hope. The big problem with populism is that it is nominally (and usually not just nominally) not based on HBD (i.e. reality), and so it is very easy to hijack or derail it. Politics not informed by HBD is usually like driving with the windshield covered. Basically blind.

    fortunately it is predominantly European

    So Switzerland is on track to become as diverse as the USA was a hundred years ago within a generation. So much for your genius “Europe is not America, we are organic nations” strategy. And this is a populist success story.

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